AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > December > 06 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves’ top-heavy payroll presents problems
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
You want to know why the Braves must trade Marcus Giles and/or Adam LaRoche in order to improve their pitching staff and stay within budget? I’ll tell you. Rather, I’ll show you.
Because seven guys are eating up 80 percent or slightly more of the $80 million payroll. Yes, seven guys.
“It is what it is,” general manager John Schuerholz said. “We have to make some adjustments, have to be nimble on our financial feet. It doesn’t stop us from doing anything; we just have to be more creative, more patient to find possible fits.”
So that you good blog denizens don’t have to try computing it in your heads, I’ll give you the approximate payroll figures for each of the Big Seven, which includes _ this is important _ the prorated part of any signing bonuses.
This isn’t the exact salary for most of these guys, but rather the amount the Braves are paying them in salary in 2007, plus prorated bonus figure. In the case of Mike Hampton, the figure is what the Braves use for the accounting puposes, basically the average value of their commitment to him over six years.
The figures aren’t exact _ because the Braves won’t divulge them _ but they are close enough to give you an idea of the bad situation the Braves are in.
They are in this situation largely because of commitments made to a few players back when the payroll was about $20 million higher with no indication that it would be reduced _ which it was three years ago, to the $80 million figure that’s remained stagnant in a booming baseball economy. Damn you, Time Warner.
Anyway, here we go:
Andruw Jones ($13.5 mill)
Chipper Jones ($12 mill)
John Smoltz ($11 mill _ FYI, that’s $8 mill and half his $6 mill signing bonus)
Hampton ($9 mill)
Tim Hudson ($8.5 mill _ remember, he got a $10 mill signing bonus)
Bob Wickman ($6.5 mill)
Edgar Renteria ($6 mill; Red Sox paying part of his $9 mill average salary).
Add it up and weep: $66.5 mill.
And even if my figures aren’t exact, they’re pretty close, and that means the Braves are pretty well scr… uh, cash-strapped.
Think about it, that’s more than 80 percent of the total payroll, and you haven’t even figured in arbitration-eligible Braves including Giles, who can expect more than $5 mill, LaRoche ($3 mill or more), Horacio Ramirez (about $3 mill) and Oscar Villarreal (about $1.5 million).
Add it up and weep more: $12.5 million for those four, give or take. Add that to the other seven guys and you get $79 million.
Don’t cry for the Braves; send them your Christmas funds.
But seriously, that payroll obviously is dysfunctional in its top-heaviness. You can’t sign the rest of your roster for about $1 mill. So the Braves must trade at LEAST one significant salary, a Giles or Hudson, and probably at least one lesser one, too.
How else are they going to pay the small raises to all their other non-arbitration guys, not to mention do their stated goal of upgrading the pitching staff by acquiring a proven, elite setup man? Can’t be done without trades.
And please, for the last time, they can’t trade Hampton at least until he comes back and has a healthy season. The man’s owed $29.5 million in salary over the next two seasons and hasn’t pitched in more than a year. Untradeable.
OK, quick update on trade news: The LaRoche-for-Mike Gonzalez trade is still very much alive. I’m told the Braves are just waiting for some information on the hard-throwing left-hander’s elbow, and if they’re satisfied a deal could go down soon after.
Gonzalez missed the last month of the season after having an arthrogram on his sore elbow in September, a procedure that involves injecting dye into the joint to get a clear view that reveals any tissue damage. The Pirates gave him a clean bill of health and Gonzalez said he’s been throwing without any soreness since the last week of the season, when he had several full-on bullpen sessions.
Again, I’ll add that something could happen at any time with this or other deals.
Meanwhile, Bobby Cox talked about a lot of subjects today during a roundtable session with writers, some of which I’m going to post in a Q&A format on our website soon after I finish this blog. But a few of the more interesting things he had to say included:
_ Kelly Johnson is working with coach Glenn Hubbard on defense not just at second base, as previously reported, but also shortstop, third base and left field. Johnson had elbow surgery and missed all of the 2006 season, and he’s trying to broaden his skills so he has a better chance of making the team.
(Just from listening to Cox, it didn’t sound like the Braves are counting on him, mainly because the elbow still isn’t ready to permit him to make strong throws. But he’ll definitely have a chance to prove himself this spring.)
_ Daryle Ward. Braves are still negotiating with him _ “talking to him every day,” Cox said _ and hopeful to have him back pinch-hitting and possibly playing some 1B or LF. Cox also said if the Braves have LaRoche back, Scott Thorman would play some left field in addition to backing up LaRoche.
_ Thorman is ready to handle first base, if necessary. Cox said he might struggle a little early and won’t match LaRoche’s production or defense, but said the big Canadian has improved a lot with the glove and has a big upside.
_ Chipper Jones is not moving to first base this year. Cox said he “absolutely” would be back at third base this season.
_ Yunel Escobar. Cox said the top infield prospect is viewed as a shortstop by the Braves, reiterating what John Schuerholz said a few days ago. Schuerholz said Escobar was not ready to play second base in the majors at this time.
_ Back of rotation. Cox said James is penciled in as the fourth starter right now, with Davies and Horacio likely to battle for the fifth job, if spring training opened today. (Personally, let me say I don’t think the Braves will bring Horacio back at $3 mill to compete for a fifth starter job; he’ll have a job or be traded. But that’s just me talking.)
_ On Chuck James: “I think he had the best winning percentage in the second half. He was pretty classy every start. To hear hitters talk about him, some hitters, good hitters, I won’t mention names but they will come back and say, ‘This is the toughest guy we face to hit at.’ He is extremely sneaky-quick, hard to pick up.” (Personally, let me say that Chuck James is a cool dude.
_ On Tim Hudson: “His [two] years could have been better, but he still won 13-14 games, and Huddy is very capable of winning 15-20, there’s no doubt in my mind. He is still working hard and I know he wasn’t satisfied with his year last year or the year before, actually. But it’s there. I think he is going to be a big winner this year, if we get our bullpen straightened out.”
_ On the Braves’ winter needs: “The core of the team is still there. We still have a real good team. We are looking for a little bullpen depth, if we could locate a real good one. We signed [Tanyon] Sturtze, and he should be able to go shortly after the season starts, I think. And I’ve heard nothing but good stuff about him…. We added him and we’re looking to add a little bit more.”
OK, enough. Gotta write a couple stories for the paper.
Oh, one more thing: Cox raved about Hampton and how getting him back is like adding a free agent and all. He said when he and other team officials saw Hampton throw in an instructional league game, he pitched 1-2/3 innings (was supposed to go 2) and came out after tearing an “adhesion” in his elbow where the surgery was performed, but that he and the Braves were assured it’s entirely normal to experience that brief stinging sensation when that occurs.
Hampton said it felt nothing like a ligament problem or the pain he had before, and went away quickly after he came off the mound. Braves expect him to be ready for full workload this spring and Cox expects him to be ready to go seven innings when the season begins, just like he does all his other starts.
Comments
By Patrick
December 6, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this
DOB,
How about that sweet trade JS just pulled off to get Soriano!!!
By Brave in Yankeeville
December 6, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
Just read a report that said the Braves have traded Horacio Ramirez to Seattle for Rafael Soriano.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
December 6, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this
Sounds like the bullpen is getting crowded. What’s up?
By futurebravesgm2413
December 6, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this
big Braves news: rotoworld.com says that if Mike Gonzales’ medical reports come back clean the swap with Adam LaRoche will happen.
Also Bill Shanks is reporting that the Braves got Rafael Soriano from the Mariners for Horacio Ramirez. Take that as it is. Shanks also said we were going to get Texeira and Glavine, oh and Peavy too.
By Greg
December 6, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this
Time Warner should just disband this team if they’re not going to compete. And here’s the thing, none of the salaries listed are that high for this year’s free agent signings. Hell, Chip’s not making that much more than Gary Matthews Jr. and the same as J.D. Drew. That would be an interesting bet: Who will play more next year Drew or Chip? This situation is ridiculous. If I was Bobby, if I was John S, I would resign. This crap is a joke. And to top it all off, they had the nerve to raise ticket prices. There is no way that we will even take a wild card next year. I think our likely finish is fourth in the division. I think I’m going to root for the Cubs. Maybe if they win it will shut up their obnoxious fans. Man, I hate TIME WARNER.
By Jeremy
December 6, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this
We can have a crowded bullpen when it includes guys like Soriano, Mike Gonzalez, and Wickman!!!
By weso1
December 6, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this
First on braves.scout.com reported by Bill Shanks… Horacio Ramirez for Soriano.. great trade.
By justin
December 6, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this
i just read own mlbtraderumors.com that we have also traded LaRoche for Gonzalez i wonder if its true
By weso1
December 6, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this
Shanks never said we were getting Peavy or Texiera. That’s just a flat out lie. On the Glavine thing, He said that according to several close sources Glavine would be a Brave, but that his agent might get in the way. That’s what happened. The agent got in the way.
By KC
December 6, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this
Oh DOB… Why do you remain silent as we all sit in waiting? When will you reveal yourself to us and grace us with your insight and wisdom… WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH THIS RAMIREZ-SORIANO THING???!!!!
By Tyler
December 6, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this
The Braves could flip Soriano again in a deal w/ D-Rays and get Crawford or Baldilli…
By futurebravesgm2413
December 6, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this
the st. petersburgh paper is also reporting that a 3 way deal is being discussed with the Braves getting Balldelli, the Dodgers getting Andruw, and the D-Rays getting prospects. I’m sure more would be involved. The paper also suggests that the Braves may trade James for Balldelli which we all know is never going to happen.
By rainman
December 6, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this
if the trade rumors or true this is a great trade.
By Jman
December 6, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
Here’s the solution to the immediate payroll problems. TRADE ANDRUW AND HUDSON!!! NOW!!!
By parks
December 6, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this
can someone pls tell me briefly about this Soriano kid? the AL does not exist to me so I have no clue who he is
By futurebravesgm2413
December 6, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this
Mark Bowman was just on mlb radio. He just furthur demonstrated the point of DOB’s blog. We are strapped by payroll concerns. He didn’t say anything about Giles or Hudson being traded. Just that inorder for the Braves to have signed Glavine that they would had to trade Hudson or Andruw.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
December 6, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
If true, Sori should be traded nowhere.
By Pejay
December 6, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this
Why do a lot of you guys criticize Bill Shanks so much when all you do rip off the information he puts on his website for paying customers? Yea, he’s not right 100% of the time, but the guys surely knows what he’s doing and is very often the first one to get the REAL scoop instead of copying it from some other writer. If you don’t like him, stop stealing the stuff off his website!!!
By Jman
December 6, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this
Got this from Ben Maller trade rumors. Foxsports.com uses this site for it’s trade rumors. This maybe where the Soriano talk came from.
“The Mariners also asked the Baltimore Orioles about some of their developing arms and found themselves back in the forefront of yet another three-way trade rumor that would see them land Atlanta Braves starter Tim Hudson. The Hudson possibility would involve the Mariners trading first baseman Richie Sexson, a scenario gathering steam even as the team insists it isn’t trying to deal him. Sexson would be sent to the San Francisco Giants and reliever Rafael Soriano would be shipped to the Braves, while the Mariners would receive Hudson and Atlanta first baseman Adam LaRoche in return. An Atlanta team that looked dismal in the bullpen last season would also receive closer Armando Benitez from the Giants to complete the three-way trade. “
By Jman
December 6, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this
If the Braves trade Hudson and LaRoche and all they getin return is a middle reliever and a washed up closer then I’ll revolt!
By Lew
December 6, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this
Pejay-If he was reporting actual deals, he would be 100% correct. Anything less is passing on speculation and only that. Never knew speculation was copyrighted. I’ll believe it all when DOB tells us from a position of true knowledge of what he’s talking about.
By bulldog
December 6, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this
Some of us are paying customers to scout.com.
By Lew
December 6, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this
JMan-That trade has been reported all day, but has got to be the dumbest one anyone ever come up with. The Braves are not going to dump LaRoche and Hudson for Soriano and that totally worthless Benitez. No equity whatsoever and no one to replace Hudson. It makes absolutely no sense.
By Voice of Reason
December 6, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this
Jman: DOB quashed that one earlier today… nothing to it.
By Efrim D
December 6, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal of FOXsports.com has just reported the braves are in fact in talks with the mariners on a ramirez soriano trade. He did not bring up Mike Gonzalez for Laroche. If the Braves got Soriano, why would they need to give up Laroche???? They should deal Andruw to the dodgers for Loney, Elbert and Broxton.
By glorydays
December 6, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this
Ramirez for Soriano would be a wash for me, both have shown great promise but are always hurt so it’s hard to know what is real. Regarding the Braves top heavy salary structure, with the exception of Hampton who has been hurt, it seens we have good contracts that are at or below the current market.
By glorydays
December 6, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this
Ramirez for Soriano would be a wash for me, both have shown great promise but are always hurt so it’s hard to know what is real. Regarding the Braves top heavy salary structure, with the exception of Hampton who has been hurt, it seens we have good contracts that are at or below the current market.
By Lew
December 6, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this
Efrim-The Braves would need to give up LaRoche for Mike Gonzalez who is a stud reliever and closer, who in three season has saved 28 of 31 games and posted a career ERA of 2.37. He is a stud and would close when Wicky retires, which may be in 08. Plus, he is just now arbitration eligible.
By Lowcountry Bulldawg
December 6, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this
We trade for a reliever(Soriano) who cannot get out of the way of batted balls! We are getting the wrong Soriano! Fire Time Warner!
By KC
December 6, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this
*Yes, there are reports of *talks about a H.Ramirez-fo-R.Soriano trade… but doesn’t it seem as though Bill Shanks jumped the gun in reported that the deal had already been made???
If that were so, there would be some confirmation, or at least some other reports of it by now.
By KC
December 6, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this
man, where is DOB with the HoRam-R.Sor scoop?? Come on DOB!! Where does this thing stand? Did Bill Shanks overstate this thing or what?
By futurebravesgm2413
December 6, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this
good point glory days. Our contracts are great for us at this current market.
By MICHAEL M BEARD
December 6, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this
I cant still fanthom how these people earn so much, and we who come to watch them earn so little…(of course, thats compared to their salaries)
By weso1
December 6, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal doesn’t have the same scoop Bill does. Bill said that the deal was agreed upon by both sides.
By brian
December 6, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
Soriano has one of the best young righty arms in the bullpen and Gonzalez from the left. They would be huge additions. If we could get Soriano from the Mariners for Horacio I would be all for it (sounds too good to be true so I doubt the Ms will go for it).
DOB - do you think Gonzalez is enough return for LaRoche? I think Gonzalez is superb but trading an everyday 1B (young, great defense, and good bat/power) for a reliever seems like a stretch to me, even if the reliever is a possible future closer. Now if it was LaRoche and Prado for Gonzalez and their speedy 2B (I forgot his name - shoot me bloggers) then maybe. We could get our 2B and leadoff hitter plus a dominant lefty in the bullpen.
I strongly feel that the Braves should do everything they can to move Andruw Jones this fall/winter because it is very clear the Braves stand NO chance of resigning him. The Braves need to sit down with Boras and Andruw to verify he is too expensive then get a list of teams he would consider playing for. Approach those teams to see if they are interested in Andruw. If they are see if they can work out an extension with Boras and if so then an appropriate trade package to the Braves. I think Andruw and the Braves fit the Dodgers (Angels too except for Matthews). Dodgers are in the National League, warm weather, play in a spacious ballpark where OF defense is premium, Boras knows the Dodgers (good conspiracy theory about Boras getting Drew to leave to free up room for AJ by the way), and the Dodgers have the OF and starting pitching prospects to please the Braves. Juan Pierre is not a CF, and could move to left when the Dodgers get Andruw and deal Kemp.
By Lew
December 6, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this
Brian-Go check out Mike Gonzalez’s stats. This kid is the next Mariano Rivera. In three seasons he has saved 28 of 31 games. He has struck out 183 and walked 74. His CAREER ERA is 2.37 and the past two seasons, he has saved 27 of 27. How much betterdo you want the kid to be. He is just now arbitration eligible. With him and Soriano setting up for Wickman, we will have one of the best if not THE BEST bullpens in baseball. We can lose the difference between LaRoche and Thorman easily if these two deals come to fruition. And BTW-ANDRUW IS NOT GOING TO BE TRADED. How often do you need his agent to proclaim this to the whole baseball world? Go see what BC says about Andruw on the Braves website.
By futurebravesgm2413
December 6, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal is reporting the deal for Soriano is not completed.
By brian
December 6, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this
reading the comments on Yunel Escobar as he is considered a short stop. If the Braves do not feel like they are getting adequate trade offers for Giles, would the Braves entertain offers for Renteria with the idea of inserting Escobar as SS and moving Giles back to the number 2 spot in the batting order. The Braves would have to look for a leadoff guy for LF. The Cards would probably love to have Renteria back especially with Boston covering $3 million. I would love to have Wainright back from the Cardinals (probably would not happen), but a package with Duncan (could help step in at 1B if LaRoche is dealt) and another prospect may get the deal done
By JC FROM UT
December 6, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this
Brian: You are absolutely right. They do need to sit and talk with AJ. They all have to realize that the only team with money in a warm climate who needs a center fielder is the Dodgers and Rangers. AJ has to feel some kind of “loyalty” to the Braves orginization and let them get something for him. I believe Boras orchastrated the whole JD Drew opt out with the intention of opening up LA for AJ.
By Patrick
December 6, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this
Just got done reading off the board where the Soriano trade was reported and Shanks has confirmed the trade for a second time.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 6, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this
I hope both the Horacio and LaRoche deals go through. I hear what some are saying about trading a starter for a reliever but I think there is a method to the madness. I think the Braves truly feel the bullpen and the rotation cost them a trip to the playoffs last year. I think they are building the pitching staff from the ninth inning back. If they get both Soriano and Gonzales which appears to be the case, they can use Wickman in the 9th; Gonzales in the 8th; and Soriano 7th. That would leave McBride, Paronto, and Yates for the other three spots. If the Braves decide to go with a seventh reliever, I suppose that would be Sturtze. Now, I’m not very comfortable with Davies as the 5th starter but the kid can pitch and I’m hoping that his performace late last season had to do with the injury. Now, if both these deals go down it would seem to kill the Baldelli rumors. Maybe. I wonder if the Rays would take Devine or Startup along with Salty for Baldelli. With LaRoche gone I’m not that big on Salty leaving but the team would be left with Thorman and perhaps Jurrie and if neither one comes through that will be the time that Chipper should be asked to move to first or perhaps that is where Kelly Johnson or B. Pena could step in. I also think the Angles would still be interested in trading Figgins if the Braves could offer Giles along with either T.Pena, Prado, Langerhans, or Diaz.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this
FOLKS, I can stay online every minute when I’ve got to actuall walk all over this hotel and make phone calls, etc.
ANYWAY, yes, this HORACIO for SORIANO thing is very close to happening, and it would be a HUGE deal for the Braves. Unless and until Horacio develops into a stady starter, the Braves would have won that deal by getting a nasty, nasty setup guy with closer potential.
They’re still waiting word on Gonzalez’s elbow, and this Ramirez/Soriano trade would NOT preclude the other from happening. If they get both, the Braves could go from on of the worst to perhaps the BEST NL bullpen, and that’s no exaggeration. And be set at setup and closer even after 2007 when Wickman’s gone. Wow. What a day.
By brian
December 6, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this
I didn’t say that Andruw was going to be traded. I just said that we need to trade him if we can. The only way we trade him is if someone like the Dodgers could and would sign him to his 5 year $100 million plus extension. He is NOT going to resign with the Braves and we are going to be left with NOTHING in return except maybe draft picks.
I also said that Gonzalez looks incredible and only questioned sending an everyday player for a reliever. He is NOT Mariano Rivera. He has the tools so maybe one day but NOT yet. He needs to do this year in and year out for a decade and be money in big games/world series.
By NCBravesFan
December 6, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this
Excellent blog, DOB … really puts things in perspective. If the Soriano/HoRam trade is for real, it looks like JS is trying to go young, talented and cheap in the pitching staff, and perhaps the offense, too as other trades unfold. He’s got to be hoping that … 1. Liberty will allow the Braves to spend $100 million or so on payroll into 2008, or … 2. That the young players he is acquiring this year can step up when the real pruning has to happen after next season (if Liberty is not as generous as we would hope).
I think the message of this blog is that you cannot expect to have a veteran, contending team for long at this payroll level.
By N8
December 6, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this
I agree Lew.
Me and you don’t always see eye to eye.
But with that 1-2-3 punch (Soriano - Gonzalez - Wickman) in the bullpen. Not to mention Boyer (if healthy) and McBride, our BIGGEST weakness (the main reason we stunk last season) would NOW be one of the if not THE BEST (like you said) bullpens in the NL, if not all of MLB.
Like I said last night, that’s the closest thing MLB has seen to the old “six inning game” since the 96 Yankees, with Wettland, Rivera and Lloyd.
YES. We will miss LaRoche’s improving bat. But I myself will be more worried about missing his glove. With a SHUTDOWN bullpen (or at least the possiblity of it), we won’t need to score as many runs as last year. Not to mention a STRONG bullpen will improve our chances in post season, should we be good enough to get there.
If these moves go down, count me in as one of the HAPPY Braves fans, today!
By Don
December 6, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this
Dave, hope you weren’t drinking coffee when Bobby Cox said he’d heard nothing but good stuff about Tanyon Sturtze.
Sturtze coming off shoulder surgery reminds me of the old joke about the guy who asked the doctor if he would be able to play the piano after recovering from hand surgery. Assured that he would be able to, the guy said “That’s great Doc, I never could play the piano before!”
By Troy
December 6, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this
Wow I gotta say I didn’t realize just how good Gonzalez is, He’s almost has a 2.5 to 1 K/BB ratio for his career and has only blown 3 Saves in his career granted it is a very small sample size but those numbers are really incredible! I hate to see LaRoche go but I think you pull the trigger on that trade if you can
By N8
December 6, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this
VERY well said, Robert (JITB).
WOW. What a day is right, DOB!
Robert (JITB), Lew and I are on the same page.
Who want’s to go iceskating in Hell with us three later? LOL!
Just kidding Lew, and Robert.
By Troy
December 6, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this
Could Sturtze possibly be a 5th starter option I don’t know anything much about him but he has started in the past and that could have been part of the Braves thinking
By Paul
December 6, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this
Rivera is the game’s greatest closer. Williams is in a small market with a bad team. Although he has shown tremendous potential with two great seasons, please dont compare him with Mariano.
By Chad
December 6, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this
I love both of these trades that seem close to completion. In all honesty, if Hampton returns to form and we get a little more out of Hudson, our top4 in the rotation look like this:
Smoltz Hudson Hampton James
That’s pretty solid in my opinion. Horacio has proved himself to be a decent, but flaky starter and both Soriano and Gonzalez are top-of-the-line relievers. The best part, however, is they get paid NOTHING. Both are young guys just around arbitration time, and this frees up a lot of payroll while at the same time solidifying our bullpen.
Thank god the front office got the message after the last 2 years of bullpen misery! Personally I would like to see Andruw traded as its obvious we won’t be able to keep him, but I think that’s unlikely.
By N8
December 6, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this
Nice joke, Don.
I’ve heard it using golf instead of piano. But it’s been a while. Forgot about it.
But that’s Bobby for you. Besides what would expect him to say? “Yeah, that Sturtze kid was really crappy before, but we’ve got our fingers crossed on him sucking a little less with a tomahawk on the front of his jersey.”
LOL!
By Anonymus
December 6, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this
I worked at Time Warner/Turner for 11 years in the Atlanta offices in a high enough level accounting/finance position to know that Time Warner/ Turner knows how to spend money unwisely. It is a shame that the Braves players’ payroll can’t be a little flexible, I can only invision where the spending waste is elsewhere in the organization.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 6, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this
I didn’t fully explain myself earlier. Okay with Soriano and Gonzales in the fold the Braves have the best late inning bullpen in the NL East by far. McBride, Paronto, and Sturtze could fill out the bullpen. Davies and Villearal could battle each other for the 5th spot in the rotation with the loser taking the 7th spot in the rotation. Yates could be traded along with Giles or simply sent down to AAA as insurance.
Now, I think Thorman could replace LaRoche quite nicely. I liked what I saw of him last year. It seemed like he was getting his stroke going when he got sent down to AAA because of the pitching fiasco. Another option for the Braves could be an old friend, Ryan Klesko. If the Braves could sign him to a one or two year contract for a couple of million or less per year, he could be the 1B. I realize that is a bit of a stretch. Even without Klesko the bench could have Ward, Diaz, Prado, Aybar, and B. Pena. Aybar could learn the outfield in spring training and a true utility guy. I totally agree with JS stockpiling the pen. Don’t forget that they still have Kevin Berry, Phil Stockman, Chris Reitsma (I know…but he could be some trade bait), and Peter Moylan who could all (except Reitsma) toil in the minors as insurance in case of injury or non-performance. I think the Braves are starting to act like a mid or small market team and taking some pages out of the A’s and Twins’ playbooks.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 6, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this
pitching and defense. pitching and defense. that is a braves team. imagine if the trades go through and the bullpen becomes dominant! now, defense … changing up-the-middle defenders is high-risk. anyone who replaces andruw will not be as good as andruw. the braves need a good defensive replacement for giles because he really gives the team excellent play at second base. as a leadoff hitter he is stale cheese.
By AZBravoFan
December 6, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this
Hell, if JS can pull off Giles for Linebrink too, then we might not even need a starting rotation.
By Lew
December 6, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this
Brian-I’m sorry, but how much better can you get than 27 for 27 and a career (yes only 3 years) ERA of 2.37? That’s better than Rivera. Plus he’s young and super cheap. Put him on a good team like the Braves and you may get the playoff wins. This kid is the real deal and the best player we will have ever had at closer short of Smoltz. LaRoche is a GOOD first baseman, but we need this reliever much more. Look at what we did last year with LaRoche and without a good closer and then tell me which would have been more important. And whether or not Andruw SHOULD be traded, it ain’t gonna happen, so speculation and would have/ could have/ should haves don’t mean diddly. Like I said-Go read BC’s comments on the Braves’ website. They have NOT given up on resigning him. And what the hell does itmatter if all we get for him is draft choices? Too damn much is made about that. We’ve had his production for 10 years and will have it this year in his supposed Walk year. Isn’t that what we paid for? When he’s gone-IF he’s gone (he isn’t yet and you don’t know WHAT will happen), then I promise you we will pay someone else to play center field. In fact I guarantee we will have a centerfielder every year we field a team and I bet we’ll pay them. N8-Glad we agree on something.
By Miss Manners
December 6, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this
Anonymus, were you let go for poor spelling?
By JCB
December 6, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this
Miss Manners. I don’t think you should correct someone on their spelling when you cannot spell either.
By Jamie in Richmond
December 6, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this
AZBravo Fan:
Good point. We’ve sort of forgotten about the SD bullpen arms that might be available for Marcus.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 6, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this
I also wonder how much steam this Andruw and the Dodgers rumor has. I know this will be unpopular but I hope the trade comes through. Look, the Braves could demand James Looney, either Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier, and either Broxton or Billingsley in return. Now, I would assume that Kemp and Billingsley will be easier to pry away but it still would be a coup. Looney is gold. He was terrific for the Dodgers the last month of the season and he acted like a 10 year veteran in the playoffs. The rest of those guys have nothing but upside. And they are all dirt cheap. In a sense the Braves would be dealing from a position of strength. After losing Lofton and Drew the Dodgers offense has lost some punch. Honestly, trading Schmidt for Maddux isn’t that big of a difference. The Dodgers need offense to compete in the NL West. As the team stands now they are certainly no better than the D-Backs, Giants, or Padres. I think they would be willing to listen to a deal now. I think part of the problem with Manny was they weren’t sure they wanted the headache nor could they be certain Manny would play out his contract. Andruw is over 4 years younger and is far from a “problem”. It is worth the effort to at least try.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 6, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this
kevin barry - yes, journalist was privileged to see kevin barry pitch last season during a period no one else was available to start a game! oh, the humanity! let’s not count too heavily on mr. barry. now, robertjitb is now using “now” for transition and may soon be named a journalist. journalist has no criticism of john schuerlolz. fix that bullpen and the team can compete. now, pie … the key lime pie at disney resort restaurants is usually quite good. charge it to ms. cox chambers and tell her jimmy smith says, hello.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this
A few things:
Looks like the Horacio/Soriano trade will get done, and it’ll be swap of two guys who’ve both had Tommy John surgery in the past and who both were struck by line drives this season, Horacio by Lance Berkman and Soriano by Vlad Guerrero.
Soriano was hit Aug. 29 and didn’t pitch again all season. Had a concussion and lingering headaches, etc., but was fine by end of season and is pitching in winter ball in his native D.R. right now.
He’d talked about possibly starting this season for Mariners, who have a stable of relievers and needed starters. But Braves will DEFINITELY be getting him to be a setup man, and he’s one of the very best relievers in baseball when he’s healthy.
He had an incredible 2003 rookie season _ 1.53 ERA in 40 games, with WHOPPING 68 strikeouts and 12 walks in 53 innings and only 30 hits allowed. Held hitters to .162 aveage that yr including .132 (12-for-91) by righties.
Missed most of next two seasons after Aug. 2004 Tommy John surgery, but he showed no lingering effects this season and was a workhorse before the liner off the noggin.
He had a 2.25 ERA in 53 games and recorded 65 K and 21 walks in 60 innings this year, with a .204 opponents average that included .179 by RHB.
Allowed .192 average with runners on, .172 with RISP and .189 (22-for-122) in close and late. Folks, he’s absolutely legit, a monster if he stays healthy, and no reason to believe he won’t since many young guys (he’s 27), come back stronger than before from T.J. surgery.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 6, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this
Look, JS and Cox are wanting to manage the game from the 9th inning back. With a bullpen of McBride, Paronto, Sturtze, Villereal, Soriano, Gonzales, and Wickman the Braves can shorten the game. The starters now won’t be expected or pressure themselves to pitch 7 or 8 innings. They can focus on 5 or 6 and give it away to the bullpen with some certainity that leads will be kept and ties will be held. That is very important when you look at the rotation. Hudson seemed to lose a lot of steam after the 5th inning last year. They aren’t going to want to push Hampton too hard considering he hasn’t pitched in a year and a half. James seemed to be able to give six solid innings but lose it afterwards. Whomever the 5th starter is is probably only going to be a five or six inning guy. And while Smoltz was a stud last year and repeatedly went into the 8th and 9th inning the Braves certainly don’t want to have to do that again. Does the term “living on borrowed time” mean anything? Why push Smoltz 7 or 8 innings every start when he can go 6 or 7 every start and be a lot fresher for the stretch run and the playoffs?
I like what JS is doing. He said pitching was the priority and I think he means it. I also beleive he has every intention of getting either Figgins or Baldelli, if not both.
By gp
December 6, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this
The decision to freeze payroll over the past several seasons has effectively caused the Braves to rapidly fall behind the top tier of competitive teams.
Understanding that faceless corporate ownership has no incentive to spend enough to keep pace with competitive teams it begs the larger question; why the hell do they want to own a major league baseball franchise?? Well ok, they are selling the Braves but yet another faceless out-of-state corporation wants them. WHY??
Face it Braves fans, our only hope was if TW were to sell the Braves to Blank. The sale to Liberty will continue the downward slide financially to competitive obscurity.
By BB FAN
December 6, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this
I like both potential trades: the LaRoche for Gonzalez and the Ramirez for Soriano. That would definitely solidify the bullpen.
I still would like to see the Braves also trade Saltalamacchia and Davies for Baldelli. I think Villerreal and Cormier could handle the 5th spot in the rotation. They both pitched well this year when they started. When I say well, I mean for a 5th starter that is. I just think that Thorman and Baldelli combined would offset the loss of LaRoche.
DOB, Have you heard anything about the deal for Baldelli?
By TN-MAN
December 6, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this
DOB-Any new news on the Laroche/Gonzo trade?
By KC
December 6, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this
DOB: “FOLKS, I can’t stay online every minute when I’ve got to actually walk all over this hotel and make phone calls, etc.”
Dangit! There’s goes that “DOB is omnipresent” theory. lol!
Thanks for the update DOB.
By darrin
December 6, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this
hey ya’ll rumors from L.A have A.J. going tomorrow to the dodgers with the bravos getting kemp,loney and broxton kyle davies is reported to be heading west as well just food for thought but a real rumor nonethe lesswhat in the name of insanity is gonna happen next
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this
By the way, if they do both of these deals for Gonzalez and Soriano, they obviously won’t need Linebrink and can go ahead and trade Giles for whatever they’d like.
They’ll almost certainly still need to trade Giles, since tbecause Soriano could make about $1.5 mill in first year of arbitration and Gonzalez between $2.5 and $3 mill. So that’s probably only about a $2 mil savings, swapping those two for Horacio and LaRoche.
With that $2 mill, Braves could re-sign Reitsma (kidding, folks. We need levity in these pressured hours…)
By Wayne
December 6, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this
We will not get Billingley from AJ, but how about AJ for Brad Penny and one of the young outfielders (I don’t care which one) Then make a play for Baldelli with Lerew and/or Davies and another prospect???
By glorydays
December 6, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this
If we’ve got Soriano do we still need Gonzalez? who believes the combination of Thorman, Salty and Ward will give us a respectable first base?
By darrin
December 6, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this
I said it first reeksma will get nontendered
By Lew
December 6, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this
GP-How can you say that the Braves are less than a top tier team with the moves they are in the process of making? Low payroll or no, JS has the situation under control. As far as Liberty Cable buying the team. If they do, in fact, make the purchase, they are essentially getting a tax free $450 million deal. Were they to pay even the low tax rate of 20% (we pay more than that on our taxes and we’re not rich), the taxes would be close to $90 million. You don’t think they could afford to boost payroll another $20 million? Also, consider ticket prices were just raised. No TV revenues have been spent on the team yet, and I’m sure the price of beer at the games is also on the rise. The money will be there for Liberty to boost the payroll and still make a flippin’ fortune. If they sell the team several years down the road (they will have to keep it for a certain time to get the deal), the team will probably be worth $700-800 million, so they’re going to make a killing anyway. I don’t know if you have ever purchased a house or refinanced one, but the mortgage company will not let you buy anything on credit while the process is in the works. The same is likely the case with this extremely complex deal, which also involves the IRS. Yes, TW is a bunch of corporate jerks, probably as inept with money as Anonymous says, but you have no clue what the situation will be when the team is sold, so don’t go commit suicide quite yet.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
December 6, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this
Any possibility of getting Broxton would be sweet! His numbers were crazy last year. I’d put him in the rotation and not the pen, though.
By darrin
December 6, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this
ALSO ONE MORE THING THAT SON OF A B*** SCOTT BORA$$IS KILLING BASEBALL
By The Grinch
December 6, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this
Lost in all this is that if we suddenly have a monster bullpen, that will take a huge amount of pressure off the starters which will likely improve their performance. How many times last year did Smoltz head to the dugout in the 7th or 8th with a comfortable lead, then look like someone shot his dog when (insert incompetent reliever here) came in and blew the game? He finally wound up trying to pitch a complete game every time and his numbers dropped off. Heck that even happened to Hudson once or twice. I like it.
By Jon
December 6, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this
DOB, Any chance JS could work out a Androw to Dodgers deal? I realize the 10/5 rule and boras pose a problem, however it seems a deal would greatly benefit both teams. Braves get a couple of young studs, prefrebly Billingsley and Kemp, and the Dodgers get a great bat and glove. Dodgers also have the financial means to pay Andruw this year and beyond. With the new and improved bullpen and a back of the rotation of Billingsley and James, plus a great young core of offensive players. The Braves improve while getting young and cheap and the Dodgers get a superb talent in Andruw. Seems to me this deal makes a lot of sense for both sides and boras. Never been, but I assume L.A. would be the nice weather environment Andruw is lookng for. DOB, what are your thoughts?
By riprock
December 6, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this
Getting Soriano and Gonzalez would definitely be outstandings. Both are outstanding relievers…DOB is dead-on that this could make the Braves’ bullpen one of baseball’s best.
By Charles
December 6, 2006 07:53 PM | Link to this
The Ramirez/Soriano trade looks to be a good one. Not too fond of the LaRoche/Gonzalez trade for the simple reason that LaRoche was starting to make some noise on this team.
However, if it improves our bullpen, then I am all for it. There is no telling how the numbers for our starters would be if those saves had been converted from the start. Might have made the playoffs.
I have a question, though. What about the other pitchers such as Reitsma, Cormier, Paronta, etc?
By darrin
December 6, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this
I PERSONALLY WOULD LOVE TO SEE A.J. STICK S.BORA$$ UP HIS a$$ AND GO TO THE DODGERS
By Sara
December 6, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this
So in case you guys haven’t noticed. None of the high-paid 7 that were mentioned are REALLY THAT HIGH! If you look at the signings as of late, they are in fact reasonable, especially Renteria, Wickman, Hudson and Smoltz. If these guys were FA’s they would definitely be getting more than we are paying for them (regardless of their performance - if Dave Roberts can get 6 million a year, Juan Pierre can get 9 million a year, Bradford can get 5 million a year, and Baez can get 6 million a year just think what these guys would get on the market. This makes the price tag on all of these AND Andruw and Chipper very reasonable. If the Braves want to compete, raise the budget don’t trade these players for garbage!!!
By matt
December 6, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this
DOB,
assuming these two trades go through, what kind of player(s) do you think we’ll get in return for giles since we won’t need linebrink? do you think we could go after a starter, and include giles in a package deal with maybe diaz/langerhans and a pitching prospect?
i’d really like to see us go after john danks, any chance in that happening?
By journalist jimmy smith
December 6, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this
get some more pitching. if you don’t have pitching you can’t compete. if you have too much pitching (ha!) you can always trade for your other needs. these trades look good to this journalist. it is sad that no one wants chipper. talk about payroll relief! of course, if chipper can put together another streak like last year, before the toe troubles, he will be most important to this team. now, cheese … why are mouse traps baited with cheese? and isn’t disney the home of mickey mouse? and aren’t there a lot of journalists there today? whither the cheese?
By darrin
December 6, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this
BUT I GOTTA ASK WHAT ABOUT GOOD OLE CHIPPY CANT WE AT LEAST TRY TO TRADE OL GIMPY HIMSELF
By Charles
December 6, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this
Paronto. That would be Paronto, sorry for the misspelling.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
December 6, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this
ROCCO! ROCCO! ROCCO!
By darrin
December 6, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this
HET D.O.B ARE THERE ANY OTHER BRAVES REPRESENTED BY BORA$$ IF SO WHO SO WE CAN GET RID OF THE CANCER IN OUR CLUBHOUSE
By MS
December 6, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this
DOB, Since Gonzalez and Laroche will make roughly the same amount next year, that trade wouldn’t trim anything off the ‘07 payroll, right?
While I love Gonzalez’s stuff, assuming the Horacio/Soriano move happens (which I am ECSTATIC about), I’d rather have Laroche and his sweet swing and golden glove with Soriano in the bullpen over Gonzo in the pen with Thorman et al trying to replace Laroche at first. We’d still have Giles to try to get one more bullpen arm (Linebrink would be nice, but with Soriano there now, a lefty would probably make more sense, someone along the lines of Bill Bray, Dennis Reyes, Taylor Tankersley, etc.). While we wouldn’t have the BEST bullpen in the NL (Wickman, Gonzalez, Soriano would certainly put us up there), I think we could still have a VERY GOOD bullpen with Soriano, Wickman, and whoever else we can get for Giles. We’d also have a VERY GOOD offense, with Laroche still in there, as we did last year. I think losing Giles AND Laroche would make it tough to keep a potent offense.
What do you think, DOB? Better off giving up Laroche to have an incredible bullpen but suspect right side of the infield, or keeping him and a solid offense and still having a pretty good pen?
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 6, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I liked H. Ramirez. Oh well, guess htis guy is pretty good. I guess we are not trading T. Hudson since the Braves traded a starter.
Smoltz Hudson Hampton James Davies?
Am I missing someone?
Shanks Loyalist,
I understand the need to defend a person you obviously like. However, many people don’t take his informaiton to seriously because of the report today. He said the deal was done…when I have read two respected sources state that the deal was still being worked on. Ken Rosenthal and DOB earlier today said it was close…mind you not done. Shanks said it was done…thats not accurate info. If you guy wants to be a repected journalist report the right stuff or opinions like my will develop.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this
Soriano for Horacio is a DONE DEAL. Hasn’t been announced yet, but done. Gonna write story and wait for announcement.
Don’t know if the other deal for Gonzalez will get done. Conflicting stuff I’m hearing, some saying that Littlefield’s dragging feet, others saying it’s Braves. I think the former….
By Milt
December 6, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this
I was ticked we didn’t get Broxton instead of Baez. Hope we finally land him. He is a good guy from south Georgia who can throw HEAT.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
December 6, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this
If the report on Gonzo’s elbow is not good, the Braves can revisit talks with the Angels for Figgins and a reliever.
By Wayne
December 6, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this
Darrin: We all dislike Scott Boras. You need to take a valium my man, and chill…….
AJ for Brad Penny and maybe Kemp. LAD are not trading Loney, Ethier, Billingsley or Broxton if they are smart. Penny gives us the flexibility to trade one more starter (James or Hudson with others for Baldelli), or to go into the season not needing Davies. OR, Davies plus others for Baldelli.
Thanks DOB for the great work!
By darrin
December 6, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this
R U NUTZ MS I REMEMBER LAZYROACH MISPLAYING AND THEN QUITTING ON A PLAY ID RATHER HAVE KOTCHMAN AT 1B ANYDAY THAT KID CAN MASH BUT IF A.J. GOS WE WONT NEED HIM WE WILL HAVE LONEYI SAY GOOD NO GREAT DEAL J.S. IS A GENIOUS
By Vol
December 6, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this
Remember the 2002 pen? Remlinger (73 games, 1.99 ERA), Holmes (55 games, 1.81 ERA), Hammond (63 games, 0.95 ERA). Oh yeah, and Smoltz with his 55 saves.
Sounds like we could be heading down that path again. I’d love to see the Soriano and Gonzo trades go through and a Giles for Figgins type deal makes a lot of sense.
By Dane
December 6, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this
Why get Baldelli trade Salty, Davies, Lerew and get Carl Crawford he can play left field and bat lead of he will solve all of our offensive problems. And if we get Soriano and Gonzalez we are pretty much set for another 14 straight division titles.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
December 6, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this
Damn, I love baseball. Bring on spring training!
By Marty
December 6, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Dave! That is GREAT news.
Oh, and you guys need to cool it about Andruw. Without getting into why you would want to trade the guy, it is NOT HAPPENING this year.
By darrin
December 6, 2006 08:11 PM | Link to this
JAMES AINT GOIN NOWHERE BUT A.J. IS IF THEY TRADE JAMES MANAGEMENT NEEDS TO BE PLACED IN A STRIGHT JACKET AND THROWN OFF A CLIFF
By Milt
December 6, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this
Penny? Heck no do not let him come to ATL. Broxton or bust!
By darrin
December 6, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this
BALDELLI NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CRAWFORD OR FIGGINS HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By darrin
December 6, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this
AND WAYNE UM UH WAYNE BORASS STILL SUX
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
December 6, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this
IF Andruw accepted a trade to LA, I think the Braves should ask for Brad Penny as part of a package. He’s under contract through 2008 with a club option for 2009. He’ll make around $7 million in ‘07, half of what Andruw will get.
By Lew
December 6, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this
Everyone acts like if LaRoche, Andruw or whomever is gone that all their offense is gone. There might well be a decrease, but let’s just say that Thorman plays first and hits 17 HR, whcih is realistic. People , we have only lost 15 HR and not all 32 of LaRoche’s. If we score 35 less runs, with the pitching staff we are now envisioning, we will still win more games. Now, replacing Andruw will be a somewhat different situation. However, BC and the Braves feel they have a realistic chance of resigning him and maybe they know more about the situation than we do. Darrin-Scott Boras is not the problem driving the salary insanity in baseball-it is the owners who have consistently gone out and spent absurd amounts of money. If the owners declined to spend like a bunch of lunatics, Boras would not have any effect at all. You are all out to axe murder this guy and all he is doing is his job. If he were representing your interest, you would expect due dillegence, also. Face it-The owners had everything their way for decades with the reserve clause. AS usual in this great country of ours, we never just rectify our problems, we overreact in response and go way to the other side of things. Sooner or later it will even out. Even with the huge TV revenues in play at the moment (and I guarantee that is what is currently driving this insanity), it is an impossibility that it keeps going like it has. Even the Red Sox Nation is going to be damn tired of outrageous ticket prices (they are already twice what you pay for a Braves game, or even more) and absurd concessions, that they will have to return to earth orbit sooner or later. There is such a thing as pricing yourself out of your customer’s reach. It will happen soon, believe me.
By Troy
December 6, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this
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