Braves

By Patrick

December 6, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

DOB,

How about that sweet trade JS just pulled off to get Soriano!!!

By Brave in Yankeeville

December 6, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

Just read a report that said the Braves have traded Horacio Ramirez to Seattle for Rafael Soriano.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

Sounds like the bullpen is getting crowded. What’s up?

By futurebravesgm2413

December 6, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

big Braves news: rotoworld.com says that if Mike Gonzales’ medical reports come back clean the swap with Adam LaRoche will happen.

Also Bill Shanks is reporting that the Braves got Rafael Soriano from the Mariners for Horacio Ramirez. Take that as it is. Shanks also said we were going to get Texeira and Glavine, oh and Peavy too.

By Greg

December 6, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

Time Warner should just disband this team if they’re not going to compete. And here’s the thing, none of the salaries listed are that high for this year’s free agent signings. Hell, Chip’s not making that much more than Gary Matthews Jr. and the same as J.D. Drew. That would be an interesting bet: Who will play more next year Drew or Chip? This situation is ridiculous. If I was Bobby, if I was John S, I would resign. This crap is a joke. And to top it all off, they had the nerve to raise ticket prices. There is no way that we will even take a wild card next year. I think our likely finish is fourth in the division. I think I’m going to root for the Cubs. Maybe if they win it will shut up their obnoxious fans. Man, I hate TIME WARNER.

By Jeremy

December 6, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

We can have a crowded bullpen when it includes guys like Soriano, Mike Gonzalez, and Wickman!!!

By weso1

December 6, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

First on braves.scout.com reported by Bill Shanks… Horacio Ramirez for Soriano.. great trade.

By justin

December 6, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

i just read own mlbtraderumors.com that we have also traded LaRoche for Gonzalez i wonder if its true

By weso1

December 6, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

Shanks never said we were getting Peavy or Texiera. That’s just a flat out lie. On the Glavine thing, He said that according to several close sources Glavine would be a Brave, but that his agent might get in the way. That’s what happened. The agent got in the way.

By KC

December 6, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

Oh DOB… Why do you remain silent as we all sit in waiting? When will you reveal yourself to us and grace us with your insight and wisdom… WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH THIS RAMIREZ-SORIANO THING???!!!!

By Tyler

December 6, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

The Braves could flip Soriano again in a deal w/ D-Rays and get Crawford or Baldilli…

By futurebravesgm2413

December 6, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

the st. petersburgh paper is also reporting that a 3 way deal is being discussed with the Braves getting Balldelli, the Dodgers getting Andruw, and the D-Rays getting prospects. I’m sure more would be involved. The paper also suggests that the Braves may trade James for Balldelli which we all know is never going to happen.

By rainman

December 6, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

if the trade rumors or true this is a great trade.

By Jman

December 6, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Here’s the solution to the immediate payroll problems. TRADE ANDRUW AND HUDSON!!! NOW!!!

By parks

December 6, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this

can someone pls tell me briefly about this Soriano kid? the AL does not exist to me so I have no clue who he is

By futurebravesgm2413

December 6, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman was just on mlb radio. He just furthur demonstrated the point of DOB’s blog. We are strapped by payroll concerns. He didn’t say anything about Giles or Hudson being traded. Just that inorder for the Braves to have signed Glavine that they would had to trade Hudson or Andruw.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

If true, Sori should be traded nowhere.

By Pejay

December 6, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

Why do a lot of you guys criticize Bill Shanks so much when all you do rip off the information he puts on his website for paying customers? Yea, he’s not right 100% of the time, but the guys surely knows what he’s doing and is very often the first one to get the REAL scoop instead of copying it from some other writer. If you don’t like him, stop stealing the stuff off his website!!!

By Jman

December 6, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

Got this from Ben Maller trade rumors. Foxsports.com uses this site for it’s trade rumors. This maybe where the Soriano talk came from.

“The Mariners also asked the Baltimore Orioles about some of their developing arms and found themselves back in the forefront of yet another three-way trade rumor that would see them land Atlanta Braves starter Tim Hudson. The Hudson possibility would involve the Mariners trading first baseman Richie Sexson, a scenario gathering steam even as the team insists it isn’t trying to deal him. Sexson would be sent to the San Francisco Giants and reliever Rafael Soriano would be shipped to the Braves, while the Mariners would receive Hudson and Atlanta first baseman Adam LaRoche in return. An Atlanta team that looked dismal in the bullpen last season would also receive closer Armando Benitez from the Giants to complete the three-way trade. “

By Jman

December 6, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

If the Braves trade Hudson and LaRoche and all they getin return is a middle reliever and a washed up closer then I’ll revolt!

By Lew

December 6, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Pejay-If he was reporting actual deals, he would be 100% correct. Anything less is passing on speculation and only that. Never knew speculation was copyrighted. I’ll believe it all when DOB tells us from a position of true knowledge of what he’s talking about.

By bulldog

December 6, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Some of us are paying customers to scout.com.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

JMan-That trade has been reported all day, but has got to be the dumbest one anyone ever come up with. The Braves are not going to dump LaRoche and Hudson for Soriano and that totally worthless Benitez. No equity whatsoever and no one to replace Hudson. It makes absolutely no sense.

By Voice of Reason

December 6, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

Jman: DOB quashed that one earlier today… nothing to it.

By Efrim D

December 6, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal of FOXsports.com has just reported the braves are in fact in talks with the mariners on a ramirez soriano trade. He did not bring up Mike Gonzalez for Laroche. If the Braves got Soriano, why would they need to give up Laroche???? They should deal Andruw to the dodgers for Loney, Elbert and Broxton.

By glorydays

December 6, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

Ramirez for Soriano would be a wash for me, both have shown great promise but are always hurt so it’s hard to know what is real. Regarding the Braves top heavy salary structure, with the exception of Hampton who has been hurt, it seens we have good contracts that are at or below the current market.

By glorydays

December 6, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

Ramirez for Soriano would be a wash for me, both have shown great promise but are always hurt so it’s hard to know what is real. Regarding the Braves top heavy salary structure, with the exception of Hampton who has been hurt, it seens we have good contracts that are at or below the current market.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

Efrim-The Braves would need to give up LaRoche for Mike Gonzalez who is a stud reliever and closer, who in three season has saved 28 of 31 games and posted a career ERA of 2.37. He is a stud and would close when Wicky retires, which may be in 08. Plus, he is just now arbitration eligible.

By Lowcountry Bulldawg

December 6, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

We trade for a reliever(Soriano) who cannot get out of the way of batted balls! We are getting the wrong Soriano! Fire Time Warner!

By KC

December 6, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

*Yes, there are reports of *talks about a H.Ramirez-fo-R.Soriano trade… but doesn’t it seem as though Bill Shanks jumped the gun in reported that the deal had already been made???

If that were so, there would be some confirmation, or at least some other reports of it by now.

By KC

December 6, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

man, where is DOB with the HoRam-R.Sor scoop?? Come on DOB!! Where does this thing stand? Did Bill Shanks overstate this thing or what?

By futurebravesgm2413

December 6, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

good point glory days. Our contracts are great for us at this current market.

By MICHAEL M BEARD

December 6, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

I cant still fanthom how these people earn so much, and we who come to watch them earn so little…(of course, thats compared to their salaries)

By weso1

December 6, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

Rosenthal doesn’t have the same scoop Bill does. Bill said that the deal was agreed upon by both sides.

By brian

December 6, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this

Soriano has one of the best young righty arms in the bullpen and Gonzalez from the left. They would be huge additions. If we could get Soriano from the Mariners for Horacio I would be all for it (sounds too good to be true so I doubt the Ms will go for it).

DOB - do you think Gonzalez is enough return for LaRoche? I think Gonzalez is superb but trading an everyday 1B (young, great defense, and good bat/power) for a reliever seems like a stretch to me, even if the reliever is a possible future closer. Now if it was LaRoche and Prado for Gonzalez and their speedy 2B (I forgot his name - shoot me bloggers) then maybe. We could get our 2B and leadoff hitter plus a dominant lefty in the bullpen.

I strongly feel that the Braves should do everything they can to move Andruw Jones this fall/winter because it is very clear the Braves stand NO chance of resigning him. The Braves need to sit down with Boras and Andruw to verify he is too expensive then get a list of teams he would consider playing for. Approach those teams to see if they are interested in Andruw. If they are see if they can work out an extension with Boras and if so then an appropriate trade package to the Braves. I think Andruw and the Braves fit the Dodgers (Angels too except for Matthews). Dodgers are in the National League, warm weather, play in a spacious ballpark where OF defense is premium, Boras knows the Dodgers (good conspiracy theory about Boras getting Drew to leave to free up room for AJ by the way), and the Dodgers have the OF and starting pitching prospects to please the Braves. Juan Pierre is not a CF, and could move to left when the Dodgers get Andruw and deal Kemp.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

Brian-Go check out Mike Gonzalez’s stats. This kid is the next Mariano Rivera. In three seasons he has saved 28 of 31 games. He has struck out 183 and walked 74. His CAREER ERA is 2.37 and the past two seasons, he has saved 27 of 27. How much betterdo you want the kid to be. He is just now arbitration eligible. With him and Soriano setting up for Wickman, we will have one of the best if not THE BEST bullpens in baseball. We can lose the difference between LaRoche and Thorman easily if these two deals come to fruition. And BTW-ANDRUW IS NOT GOING TO BE TRADED. How often do you need his agent to proclaim this to the whole baseball world? Go see what BC says about Andruw on the Braves website.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 6, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal is reporting the deal for Soriano is not completed.

By brian

December 6, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

reading the comments on Yunel Escobar as he is considered a short stop. If the Braves do not feel like they are getting adequate trade offers for Giles, would the Braves entertain offers for Renteria with the idea of inserting Escobar as SS and moving Giles back to the number 2 spot in the batting order. The Braves would have to look for a leadoff guy for LF. The Cards would probably love to have Renteria back especially with Boston covering $3 million. I would love to have Wainright back from the Cardinals (probably would not happen), but a package with Duncan (could help step in at 1B if LaRoche is dealt) and another prospect may get the deal done

By JC FROM UT

December 6, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

Brian: You are absolutely right. They do need to sit and talk with AJ. They all have to realize that the only team with money in a warm climate who needs a center fielder is the Dodgers and Rangers. AJ has to feel some kind of “loyalty” to the Braves orginization and let them get something for him. I believe Boras orchastrated the whole JD Drew opt out with the intention of opening up LA for AJ.

By Patrick

December 6, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this

Just got done reading off the board where the Soriano trade was reported and Shanks has confirmed the trade for a second time.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

I hope both the Horacio and LaRoche deals go through. I hear what some are saying about trading a starter for a reliever but I think there is a method to the madness. I think the Braves truly feel the bullpen and the rotation cost them a trip to the playoffs last year. I think they are building the pitching staff from the ninth inning back. If they get both Soriano and Gonzales which appears to be the case, they can use Wickman in the 9th; Gonzales in the 8th; and Soriano 7th. That would leave McBride, Paronto, and Yates for the other three spots. If the Braves decide to go with a seventh reliever, I suppose that would be Sturtze. Now, I’m not very comfortable with Davies as the 5th starter but the kid can pitch and I’m hoping that his performace late last season had to do with the injury. Now, if both these deals go down it would seem to kill the Baldelli rumors. Maybe. I wonder if the Rays would take Devine or Startup along with Salty for Baldelli. With LaRoche gone I’m not that big on Salty leaving but the team would be left with Thorman and perhaps Jurrie and if neither one comes through that will be the time that Chipper should be asked to move to first or perhaps that is where Kelly Johnson or B. Pena could step in. I also think the Angles would still be interested in trading Figgins if the Braves could offer Giles along with either T.Pena, Prado, Langerhans, or Diaz.

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

FOLKS, I can stay online every minute when I’ve got to actuall walk all over this hotel and make phone calls, etc.

ANYWAY, yes, this HORACIO for SORIANO thing is very close to happening, and it would be a HUGE deal for the Braves. Unless and until Horacio develops into a stady starter, the Braves would have won that deal by getting a nasty, nasty setup guy with closer potential.

They’re still waiting word on Gonzalez’s elbow, and this Ramirez/Soriano trade would NOT preclude the other from happening. If they get both, the Braves could go from on of the worst to perhaps the BEST NL bullpen, and that’s no exaggeration. And be set at setup and closer even after 2007 when Wickman’s gone. Wow. What a day.

By brian

December 6, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

I didn’t say that Andruw was going to be traded. I just said that we need to trade him if we can. The only way we trade him is if someone like the Dodgers could and would sign him to his 5 year $100 million plus extension. He is NOT going to resign with the Braves and we are going to be left with NOTHING in return except maybe draft picks.

I also said that Gonzalez looks incredible and only questioned sending an everyday player for a reliever. He is NOT Mariano Rivera. He has the tools so maybe one day but NOT yet. He needs to do this year in and year out for a decade and be money in big games/world series.

By NCBravesFan

December 6, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

Excellent blog, DOB … really puts things in perspective. If the Soriano/HoRam trade is for real, it looks like JS is trying to go young, talented and cheap in the pitching staff, and perhaps the offense, too as other trades unfold. He’s got to be hoping that … 1. Liberty will allow the Braves to spend $100 million or so on payroll into 2008, or … 2. That the young players he is acquiring this year can step up when the real pruning has to happen after next season (if Liberty is not as generous as we would hope).

I think the message of this blog is that you cannot expect to have a veteran, contending team for long at this payroll level.

By N8

December 6, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

I agree Lew.

Me and you don’t always see eye to eye.

But with that 1-2-3 punch (Soriano - Gonzalez - Wickman) in the bullpen. Not to mention Boyer (if healthy) and McBride, our BIGGEST weakness (the main reason we stunk last season) would NOW be one of the if not THE BEST (like you said) bullpens in the NL, if not all of MLB.

Like I said last night, that’s the closest thing MLB has seen to the old “six inning game” since the 96 Yankees, with Wettland, Rivera and Lloyd.

YES. We will miss LaRoche’s improving bat. But I myself will be more worried about missing his glove. With a SHUTDOWN bullpen (or at least the possiblity of it), we won’t need to score as many runs as last year. Not to mention a STRONG bullpen will improve our chances in post season, should we be good enough to get there.

If these moves go down, count me in as one of the HAPPY Braves fans, today!

By Don

December 6, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

Dave, hope you weren’t drinking coffee when Bobby Cox said he’d heard nothing but good stuff about Tanyon Sturtze.

Sturtze coming off shoulder surgery reminds me of the old joke about the guy who asked the doctor if he would be able to play the piano after recovering from hand surgery. Assured that he would be able to, the guy said “That’s great Doc, I never could play the piano before!”

By Troy

December 6, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

Wow I gotta say I didn’t realize just how good Gonzalez is, He’s almost has a 2.5 to 1 K/BB ratio for his career and has only blown 3 Saves in his career granted it is a very small sample size but those numbers are really incredible! I hate to see LaRoche go but I think you pull the trigger on that trade if you can

By N8

December 6, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

VERY well said, Robert (JITB).

WOW. What a day is right, DOB!

Robert (JITB), Lew and I are on the same page.

Who want’s to go iceskating in Hell with us three later? LOL!

Just kidding Lew, and Robert.

By Troy

December 6, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

Could Sturtze possibly be a 5th starter option I don’t know anything much about him but he has started in the past and that could have been part of the Braves thinking

By Paul

December 6, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

Rivera is the game’s greatest closer. Williams is in a small market with a bad team. Although he has shown tremendous potential with two great seasons, please dont compare him with Mariano.

By Chad

December 6, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

I love both of these trades that seem close to completion. In all honesty, if Hampton returns to form and we get a little more out of Hudson, our top4 in the rotation look like this:

Smoltz Hudson Hampton James

That’s pretty solid in my opinion. Horacio has proved himself to be a decent, but flaky starter and both Soriano and Gonzalez are top-of-the-line relievers. The best part, however, is they get paid NOTHING. Both are young guys just around arbitration time, and this frees up a lot of payroll while at the same time solidifying our bullpen.

Thank god the front office got the message after the last 2 years of bullpen misery! Personally I would like to see Andruw traded as its obvious we won’t be able to keep him, but I think that’s unlikely.

By N8

December 6, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Nice joke, Don.

I’ve heard it using golf instead of piano. But it’s been a while. Forgot about it.

But that’s Bobby for you. Besides what would expect him to say? “Yeah, that Sturtze kid was really crappy before, but we’ve got our fingers crossed on him sucking a little less with a tomahawk on the front of his jersey.”

LOL!

By Anonymus

December 6, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

I worked at Time Warner/Turner for 11 years in the Atlanta offices in a high enough level accounting/finance position to know that Time Warner/ Turner knows how to spend money unwisely. It is a shame that the Braves players’ payroll can’t be a little flexible, I can only invision where the spending waste is elsewhere in the organization.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

I didn’t fully explain myself earlier. Okay with Soriano and Gonzales in the fold the Braves have the best late inning bullpen in the NL East by far. McBride, Paronto, and Sturtze could fill out the bullpen. Davies and Villearal could battle each other for the 5th spot in the rotation with the loser taking the 7th spot in the rotation. Yates could be traded along with Giles or simply sent down to AAA as insurance.

Now, I think Thorman could replace LaRoche quite nicely. I liked what I saw of him last year. It seemed like he was getting his stroke going when he got sent down to AAA because of the pitching fiasco. Another option for the Braves could be an old friend, Ryan Klesko. If the Braves could sign him to a one or two year contract for a couple of million or less per year, he could be the 1B. I realize that is a bit of a stretch. Even without Klesko the bench could have Ward, Diaz, Prado, Aybar, and B. Pena. Aybar could learn the outfield in spring training and a true utility guy. I totally agree with JS stockpiling the pen. Don’t forget that they still have Kevin Berry, Phil Stockman, Chris Reitsma (I know…but he could be some trade bait), and Peter Moylan who could all (except Reitsma) toil in the minors as insurance in case of injury or non-performance. I think the Braves are starting to act like a mid or small market team and taking some pages out of the A’s and Twins’ playbooks.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this

pitching and defense. pitching and defense. that is a braves team. imagine if the trades go through and the bullpen becomes dominant! now, defense … changing up-the-middle defenders is high-risk. anyone who replaces andruw will not be as good as andruw. the braves need a good defensive replacement for giles because he really gives the team excellent play at second base. as a leadoff hitter he is stale cheese.

By AZBravoFan

December 6, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this

Hell, if JS can pull off Giles for Linebrink too, then we might not even need a starting rotation.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

Brian-I’m sorry, but how much better can you get than 27 for 27 and a career (yes only 3 years) ERA of 2.37? That’s better than Rivera. Plus he’s young and super cheap. Put him on a good team like the Braves and you may get the playoff wins. This kid is the real deal and the best player we will have ever had at closer short of Smoltz. LaRoche is a GOOD first baseman, but we need this reliever much more. Look at what we did last year with LaRoche and without a good closer and then tell me which would have been more important. And whether or not Andruw SHOULD be traded, it ain’t gonna happen, so speculation and would have/ could have/ should haves don’t mean diddly. Like I said-Go read BC’s comments on the Braves’ website. They have NOT given up on resigning him. And what the hell does itmatter if all we get for him is draft choices? Too damn much is made about that. We’ve had his production for 10 years and will have it this year in his supposed Walk year. Isn’t that what we paid for? When he’s gone-IF he’s gone (he isn’t yet and you don’t know WHAT will happen), then I promise you we will pay someone else to play center field. In fact I guarantee we will have a centerfielder every year we field a team and I bet we’ll pay them. N8-Glad we agree on something.

By Miss Manners

December 6, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

Anonymus, were you let go for poor spelling?

By JCB

December 6, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this

Miss Manners. I don’t think you should correct someone on their spelling when you cannot spell either.

By Jamie in Richmond

December 6, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this

AZBravo Fan:

Good point. We’ve sort of forgotten about the SD bullpen arms that might be available for Marcus.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this

I also wonder how much steam this Andruw and the Dodgers rumor has. I know this will be unpopular but I hope the trade comes through. Look, the Braves could demand James Looney, either Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier, and either Broxton or Billingsley in return. Now, I would assume that Kemp and Billingsley will be easier to pry away but it still would be a coup. Looney is gold. He was terrific for the Dodgers the last month of the season and he acted like a 10 year veteran in the playoffs. The rest of those guys have nothing but upside. And they are all dirt cheap. In a sense the Braves would be dealing from a position of strength. After losing Lofton and Drew the Dodgers offense has lost some punch. Honestly, trading Schmidt for Maddux isn’t that big of a difference. The Dodgers need offense to compete in the NL West. As the team stands now they are certainly no better than the D-Backs, Giants, or Padres. I think they would be willing to listen to a deal now. I think part of the problem with Manny was they weren’t sure they wanted the headache nor could they be certain Manny would play out his contract. Andruw is over 4 years younger and is far from a “problem”. It is worth the effort to at least try.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this

kevin barry - yes, journalist was privileged to see kevin barry pitch last season during a period no one else was available to start a game! oh, the humanity! let’s not count too heavily on mr. barry. now, robertjitb is now using “now” for transition and may soon be named a journalist. journalist has no criticism of john schuerlolz. fix that bullpen and the team can compete. now, pie … the key lime pie at disney resort restaurants is usually quite good. charge it to ms. cox chambers and tell her jimmy smith says, hello.

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this

A few things:

Looks like the Horacio/Soriano trade will get done, and it’ll be swap of two guys who’ve both had Tommy John surgery in the past and who both were struck by line drives this season, Horacio by Lance Berkman and Soriano by Vlad Guerrero.

Soriano was hit Aug. 29 and didn’t pitch again all season. Had a concussion and lingering headaches, etc., but was fine by end of season and is pitching in winter ball in his native D.R. right now.

He’d talked about possibly starting this season for Mariners, who have a stable of relievers and needed starters. But Braves will DEFINITELY be getting him to be a setup man, and he’s one of the very best relievers in baseball when he’s healthy.

He had an incredible 2003 rookie season _ 1.53 ERA in 40 games, with WHOPPING 68 strikeouts and 12 walks in 53 innings and only 30 hits allowed. Held hitters to .162 aveage that yr including .132 (12-for-91) by righties.

Missed most of next two seasons after Aug. 2004 Tommy John surgery, but he showed no lingering effects this season and was a workhorse before the liner off the noggin.

He had a 2.25 ERA in 53 games and recorded 65 K and 21 walks in 60 innings this year, with a .204 opponents average that included .179 by RHB.

Allowed .192 average with runners on, .172 with RISP and .189 (22-for-122) in close and late. Folks, he’s absolutely legit, a monster if he stays healthy, and no reason to believe he won’t since many young guys (he’s 27), come back stronger than before from T.J. surgery.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

Look, JS and Cox are wanting to manage the game from the 9th inning back. With a bullpen of McBride, Paronto, Sturtze, Villereal, Soriano, Gonzales, and Wickman the Braves can shorten the game. The starters now won’t be expected or pressure themselves to pitch 7 or 8 innings. They can focus on 5 or 6 and give it away to the bullpen with some certainity that leads will be kept and ties will be held. That is very important when you look at the rotation. Hudson seemed to lose a lot of steam after the 5th inning last year. They aren’t going to want to push Hampton too hard considering he hasn’t pitched in a year and a half. James seemed to be able to give six solid innings but lose it afterwards. Whomever the 5th starter is is probably only going to be a five or six inning guy. And while Smoltz was a stud last year and repeatedly went into the 8th and 9th inning the Braves certainly don’t want to have to do that again. Does the term “living on borrowed time” mean anything? Why push Smoltz 7 or 8 innings every start when he can go 6 or 7 every start and be a lot fresher for the stretch run and the playoffs?

I like what JS is doing. He said pitching was the priority and I think he means it. I also beleive he has every intention of getting either Figgins or Baldelli, if not both.

By gp

December 6, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

The decision to freeze payroll over the past several seasons has effectively caused the Braves to rapidly fall behind the top tier of competitive teams.

Understanding that faceless corporate ownership has no incentive to spend enough to keep pace with competitive teams it begs the larger question; why the hell do they want to own a major league baseball franchise?? Well ok, they are selling the Braves but yet another faceless out-of-state corporation wants them. WHY??

Face it Braves fans, our only hope was if TW were to sell the Braves to Blank. The sale to Liberty will continue the downward slide financially to competitive obscurity.

By BB FAN

December 6, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

I like both potential trades: the LaRoche for Gonzalez and the Ramirez for Soriano. That would definitely solidify the bullpen.

I still would like to see the Braves also trade Saltalamacchia and Davies for Baldelli. I think Villerreal and Cormier could handle the 5th spot in the rotation. They both pitched well this year when they started. When I say well, I mean for a 5th starter that is. I just think that Thorman and Baldelli combined would offset the loss of LaRoche.

DOB, Have you heard anything about the deal for Baldelli?

By TN-MAN

December 6, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

DOB-Any new news on the Laroche/Gonzo trade?

By KC

December 6, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this

DOB: “FOLKS, I can’t stay online every minute when I’ve got to actually walk all over this hotel and make phone calls, etc.”

Dangit! There’s goes that “DOB is omnipresent” theory. lol!

Thanks for the update DOB.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

hey ya’ll rumors from L.A have A.J. going tomorrow to the dodgers with the bravos getting kemp,loney and broxton kyle davies is reported to be heading west as well just food for thought but a real rumor nonethe lesswhat in the name of insanity is gonna happen next

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this

By the way, if they do both of these deals for Gonzalez and Soriano, they obviously won’t need Linebrink and can go ahead and trade Giles for whatever they’d like.

They’ll almost certainly still need to trade Giles, since tbecause Soriano could make about $1.5 mill in first year of arbitration and Gonzalez between $2.5 and $3 mill. So that’s probably only about a $2 mil savings, swapping those two for Horacio and LaRoche.

With that $2 mill, Braves could re-sign Reitsma (kidding, folks. We need levity in these pressured hours…)

By Wayne

December 6, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this

We will not get Billingley from AJ, but how about AJ for Brad Penny and one of the young outfielders (I don’t care which one) Then make a play for Baldelli with Lerew and/or Davies and another prospect???

By glorydays

December 6, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this

If we’ve got Soriano do we still need Gonzalez? who believes the combination of Thorman, Salty and Ward will give us a respectable first base?

By darrin

December 6, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this

I said it first reeksma will get nontendered

By Lew

December 6, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

GP-How can you say that the Braves are less than a top tier team with the moves they are in the process of making? Low payroll or no, JS has the situation under control. As far as Liberty Cable buying the team. If they do, in fact, make the purchase, they are essentially getting a tax free $450 million deal. Were they to pay even the low tax rate of 20% (we pay more than that on our taxes and we’re not rich), the taxes would be close to $90 million. You don’t think they could afford to boost payroll another $20 million? Also, consider ticket prices were just raised. No TV revenues have been spent on the team yet, and I’m sure the price of beer at the games is also on the rise. The money will be there for Liberty to boost the payroll and still make a flippin’ fortune. If they sell the team several years down the road (they will have to keep it for a certain time to get the deal), the team will probably be worth $700-800 million, so they’re going to make a killing anyway. I don’t know if you have ever purchased a house or refinanced one, but the mortgage company will not let you buy anything on credit while the process is in the works. The same is likely the case with this extremely complex deal, which also involves the IRS. Yes, TW is a bunch of corporate jerks, probably as inept with money as Anonymous says, but you have no clue what the situation will be when the team is sold, so don’t go commit suicide quite yet.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

Any possibility of getting Broxton would be sweet! His numbers were crazy last year. I’d put him in the rotation and not the pen, though.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

ALSO ONE MORE THING THAT SON OF A B*** SCOTT BORA$$IS KILLING BASEBALL

By The Grinch

December 6, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

Lost in all this is that if we suddenly have a monster bullpen, that will take a huge amount of pressure off the starters which will likely improve their performance. How many times last year did Smoltz head to the dugout in the 7th or 8th with a comfortable lead, then look like someone shot his dog when (insert incompetent reliever here) came in and blew the game? He finally wound up trying to pitch a complete game every time and his numbers dropped off. Heck that even happened to Hudson once or twice. I like it.

By Jon

December 6, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

DOB, Any chance JS could work out a Androw to Dodgers deal? I realize the 10/5 rule and boras pose a problem, however it seems a deal would greatly benefit both teams. Braves get a couple of young studs, prefrebly Billingsley and Kemp, and the Dodgers get a great bat and glove. Dodgers also have the financial means to pay Andruw this year and beyond. With the new and improved bullpen and a back of the rotation of Billingsley and James, plus a great young core of offensive players. The Braves improve while getting young and cheap and the Dodgers get a superb talent in Andruw. Seems to me this deal makes a lot of sense for both sides and boras. Never been, but I assume L.A. would be the nice weather environment Andruw is lookng for. DOB, what are your thoughts?

By riprock

December 6, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this

Getting Soriano and Gonzalez would definitely be outstandings. Both are outstanding relievers…DOB is dead-on that this could make the Braves’ bullpen one of baseball’s best.

By Charles

December 6, 2006 07:53 PM | Link to this

The Ramirez/Soriano trade looks to be a good one. Not too fond of the LaRoche/Gonzalez trade for the simple reason that LaRoche was starting to make some noise on this team.

However, if it improves our bullpen, then I am all for it. There is no telling how the numbers for our starters would be if those saves had been converted from the start. Might have made the playoffs.

I have a question, though. What about the other pitchers such as Reitsma, Cormier, Paronta, etc?

By darrin

December 6, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

I PERSONALLY WOULD LOVE TO SEE A.J. STICK S.BORA$$ UP HIS a$$ AND GO TO THE DODGERS

By Sara

December 6, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

So in case you guys haven’t noticed. None of the high-paid 7 that were mentioned are REALLY THAT HIGH! If you look at the signings as of late, they are in fact reasonable, especially Renteria, Wickman, Hudson and Smoltz. If these guys were FA’s they would definitely be getting more than we are paying for them (regardless of their performance - if Dave Roberts can get 6 million a year, Juan Pierre can get 9 million a year, Bradford can get 5 million a year, and Baez can get 6 million a year just think what these guys would get on the market. This makes the price tag on all of these AND Andruw and Chipper very reasonable. If the Braves want to compete, raise the budget don’t trade these players for garbage!!!

By matt

December 6, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

DOB,

assuming these two trades go through, what kind of player(s) do you think we’ll get in return for giles since we won’t need linebrink? do you think we could go after a starter, and include giles in a package deal with maybe diaz/langerhans and a pitching prospect?

i’d really like to see us go after john danks, any chance in that happening?

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

get some more pitching. if you don’t have pitching you can’t compete. if you have too much pitching (ha!) you can always trade for your other needs. these trades look good to this journalist. it is sad that no one wants chipper. talk about payroll relief! of course, if chipper can put together another streak like last year, before the toe troubles, he will be most important to this team. now, cheese … why are mouse traps baited with cheese? and isn’t disney the home of mickey mouse? and aren’t there a lot of journalists there today? whither the cheese?

By darrin

December 6, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

BUT I GOTTA ASK WHAT ABOUT GOOD OLE CHIPPY CANT WE AT LEAST TRY TO TRADE OL GIMPY HIMSELF

By Charles

December 6, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

Paronto. That would be Paronto, sorry for the misspelling.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

ROCCO! ROCCO! ROCCO!

By darrin

December 6, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

HET D.O.B ARE THERE ANY OTHER BRAVES REPRESENTED BY BORA$$ IF SO WHO SO WE CAN GET RID OF THE CANCER IN OUR CLUBHOUSE

By MS

December 6, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, Since Gonzalez and Laroche will make roughly the same amount next year, that trade wouldn’t trim anything off the ‘07 payroll, right?

While I love Gonzalez’s stuff, assuming the Horacio/Soriano move happens (which I am ECSTATIC about), I’d rather have Laroche and his sweet swing and golden glove with Soriano in the bullpen over Gonzo in the pen with Thorman et al trying to replace Laroche at first. We’d still have Giles to try to get one more bullpen arm (Linebrink would be nice, but with Soriano there now, a lefty would probably make more sense, someone along the lines of Bill Bray, Dennis Reyes, Taylor Tankersley, etc.). While we wouldn’t have the BEST bullpen in the NL (Wickman, Gonzalez, Soriano would certainly put us up there), I think we could still have a VERY GOOD bullpen with Soriano, Wickman, and whoever else we can get for Giles. We’d also have a VERY GOOD offense, with Laroche still in there, as we did last year. I think losing Giles AND Laroche would make it tough to keep a potent offense.

What do you think, DOB? Better off giving up Laroche to have an incredible bullpen but suspect right side of the infield, or keeping him and a solid offense and still having a pretty good pen?

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I liked H. Ramirez. Oh well, guess htis guy is pretty good. I guess we are not trading T. Hudson since the Braves traded a starter.

Smoltz Hudson Hampton James Davies?

Am I missing someone?

Shanks Loyalist,

I understand the need to defend a person you obviously like. However, many people don’t take his informaiton to seriously because of the report today. He said the deal was done…when I have read two respected sources state that the deal was still being worked on. Ken Rosenthal and DOB earlier today said it was close…mind you not done. Shanks said it was done…thats not accurate info. If you guy wants to be a repected journalist report the right stuff or opinions like my will develop.

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this

Soriano for Horacio is a DONE DEAL. Hasn’t been announced yet, but done. Gonna write story and wait for announcement.

Don’t know if the other deal for Gonzalez will get done. Conflicting stuff I’m hearing, some saying that Littlefield’s dragging feet, others saying it’s Braves. I think the former….

By Milt

December 6, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this

I was ticked we didn’t get Broxton instead of Baez. Hope we finally land him. He is a good guy from south Georgia who can throw HEAT.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this

If the report on Gonzo’s elbow is not good, the Braves can revisit talks with the Angels for Figgins and a reliever.

By Wayne

December 6, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this

Darrin: We all dislike Scott Boras. You need to take a valium my man, and chill…….

AJ for Brad Penny and maybe Kemp. LAD are not trading Loney, Ethier, Billingsley or Broxton if they are smart. Penny gives us the flexibility to trade one more starter (James or Hudson with others for Baldelli), or to go into the season not needing Davies. OR, Davies plus others for Baldelli.

Thanks DOB for the great work!

By darrin

December 6, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this

R U NUTZ MS I REMEMBER LAZYROACH MISPLAYING AND THEN QUITTING ON A PLAY ID RATHER HAVE KOTCHMAN AT 1B ANYDAY THAT KID CAN MASH BUT IF A.J. GOS WE WONT NEED HIM WE WILL HAVE LONEYI SAY GOOD NO GREAT DEAL J.S. IS A GENIOUS

By Vol

December 6, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

Remember the 2002 pen? Remlinger (73 games, 1.99 ERA), Holmes (55 games, 1.81 ERA), Hammond (63 games, 0.95 ERA). Oh yeah, and Smoltz with his 55 saves.

Sounds like we could be heading down that path again. I’d love to see the Soriano and Gonzo trades go through and a Giles for Figgins type deal makes a lot of sense.

By Dane

December 6, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

Why get Baldelli trade Salty, Davies, Lerew and get Carl Crawford he can play left field and bat lead of he will solve all of our offensive problems. And if we get Soriano and Gonzalez we are pretty much set for another 14 straight division titles.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

Damn, I love baseball. Bring on spring training!

By Marty

December 6, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Dave! That is GREAT news.

Oh, and you guys need to cool it about Andruw. Without getting into why you would want to trade the guy, it is NOT HAPPENING this year.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 08:11 PM | Link to this

JAMES AINT GOIN NOWHERE BUT A.J. IS IF THEY TRADE JAMES MANAGEMENT NEEDS TO BE PLACED IN A STRIGHT JACKET AND THROWN OFF A CLIFF

By Milt

December 6, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

Penny? Heck no do not let him come to ATL. Broxton or bust!

By darrin

December 6, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

BALDELLI NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CRAWFORD OR FIGGINS HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By darrin

December 6, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

AND WAYNE UM UH WAYNE BORASS STILL SUX

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

IF Andruw accepted a trade to LA, I think the Braves should ask for Brad Penny as part of a package. He’s under contract through 2008 with a club option for 2009. He’ll make around $7 million in ‘07, half of what Andruw will get.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

Everyone acts like if LaRoche, Andruw or whomever is gone that all their offense is gone. There might well be a decrease, but let’s just say that Thorman plays first and hits 17 HR, whcih is realistic. People , we have only lost 15 HR and not all 32 of LaRoche’s. If we score 35 less runs, with the pitching staff we are now envisioning, we will still win more games. Now, replacing Andruw will be a somewhat different situation. However, BC and the Braves feel they have a realistic chance of resigning him and maybe they know more about the situation than we do. Darrin-Scott Boras is not the problem driving the salary insanity in baseball-it is the owners who have consistently gone out and spent absurd amounts of money. If the owners declined to spend like a bunch of lunatics, Boras would not have any effect at all. You are all out to axe murder this guy and all he is doing is his job. If he were representing your interest, you would expect due dillegence, also. Face it-The owners had everything their way for decades with the reserve clause. AS usual in this great country of ours, we never just rectify our problems, we overreact in response and go way to the other side of things. Sooner or later it will even out. Even with the huge TV revenues in play at the moment (and I guarantee that is what is currently driving this insanity), it is an impossibility that it keeps going like it has. Even the Red Sox Nation is going to be damn tired of outrageous ticket prices (they are already twice what you pay for a Braves game, or even more) and absurd concessions, that they will have to return to earth orbit sooner or later. There is such a thing as pricing yourself out of your customer’s reach. It will happen soon, believe me.

By Troy

December 6, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

MLB.com reported that Soriano has the tools to be a starter and he has indicated that he would like to be in that role.

I don’t know? Thoughts?

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

darrin,

Where do you get this crap? other message boards? FYI…the Atlanta Braves message board is not a legit site to trust for rumors. Just not man. I imagine this is where most of the trolls are getting info from. If someone could show me a legit site that has the Braves in discussion with the D-Rays for Baldelli I send you 5 dollars. (specualtion does not count).

Now to everyone who post the fantasy trades of the centrury.

It’s pointless to bog down the blog (which happens wiht so many post) with a fantasy trade you just herd on MLBrumors.com. I’m just saying dont post that you just heard a rumor…say hey what do you people think about this or that…you sound way less stupid and more like fan. FYI: MLBrumors.com sources are suspect at best and most of the time when they are right they copy from ESPN, Fox, SI, or other legit sites.

The following is post is retarded…prove it. You get all the trolls talking about a trade that has 0% truth to it….then take our esteemed journalist away from tracking the real stuff when you “hey what do you think”.

“hey ya’ll rumors from L.A have A.J. going tomorrow to the dodgers with the bravos getting kemp,loney and broxton kyle davies is reported to be heading west as well just food for thought but a real rumor nonethe lesswhat in the name of insanity is gonna happen next”

Im ranting I know but people read the blog alot of the questions (i.e. trade rumors that you herd from “some one in the know”) youve asked have been answered repeatedly…

By Paul

December 6, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this

Get DOB a Cohiba. Man this pen is going to be impressive next year. Pitchers and catchers reporting cannot come soon enough.

By JCB

December 6, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this

darrin, dude, chill out. Dang.

By Marty

December 6, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this

Andruw and Boras have already said they won’t agree to a trade. Shut up!

By Heath

December 6, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

ESPNNEWS is now reporting the ramirez/soriano trade…done indeed…now get gonzales and find a taker for giles

By darrin

December 6, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

WHY TRADE A.J. FIRST OF ALL HE STRIKES OUT WAY TOO MUCH HIS DEFENSE DOESNT MAKE UP FOR THE FACT THAT HE IS NOT CLUTCH AND HIS CONTRACT IS HAMPERING THE BRAVES AND THEIR FLEXIBILITY OH AND DID I MENTION HIS AGENT IS SCOTT BORA$$ HE IS NOW ONE AND DONE SO ITS TIME TO TRADE HIM AND MOVE ON TO GREENER PASTURES MAYBE WILLY TAVARES CAN BE HAD

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

darrin,

I hate to pick on ya dude but this is just crazy thinking:

HET D.O.B ARE THERE ANY OTHER BRAVES REPRESENTED BY BORA$$ IF SO WHO SO WE CAN GET RID OF THE CANCER IN OUR CLUBHOUSE

Do you have first hand access into the Braves clubhouse in order to make that opinion? Much less Jones wiht any agent will likely be leaving next year…the market dicated it not the agent. At least directly. In other words AJ could have any agent he wanted and it would like be the same senario. And stop using caps.

By MadduxRules

December 6, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

MLB Homeplate mentioned a few minutes ago that the Atlanta crowd was seen leaving somewhere with the TB gurus. It said that the TB press reacted, and that there could be something brewing between the Braves and TB. DOB, have you heard anything on this? I hope we get Gonzalez!!!

By Lew

December 6, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

Darrin-It’s time for your medication.

By BB FAN

December 6, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

Dane,

I doubt Rays would trade Crawford for Salty, Davies, Lerew.

By MS

December 6, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

Darrin, Laroche made one boneheaded play, big deal. He’s still one of (if not the) best defensive 1B in the NL. You remember that one play, but you’re obviously forgetting the dozens of times he’s saved runs with outstanding plays. The guy has superb range and great hands. Go ask anyone on or around the Braves and I think you’ll find the same answer.

And I’m pretty sure we’re not getting Figgins, UNLESS we give up Laroche…

By Phat Phalcon

December 6, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this

Why haven’t we tried Edgar at leadoff? He’s done it before. Good bat skills and decent speed…

By rainman

December 6, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

I love gonzalez but figgens makes more sense to me now that we have soriano. Man just look at our bullpin no. wickman soriano Mcbride yates boyer paronto oscar that is a nice list to say the least.

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

darrin,

dude…put the key board down…before you hurt yourself.

Thanks for the info DOB

By Phat Phalcon

December 6, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this

Let’s all take up a collection to get Billy and Darrin laid. I’ll find the professional ladies. Or dudes, whatever they’re into…

By Dane

December 6, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

Add Devine into the mix and they will surely take that.

By Heath

December 6, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

let me throw this out there…could the ramirez/soriano trade allow the braves and angels to trade pieces(laroche for figgins and kotchman) and then go ahead with the giles for linebrink trade with san diego??…..doesn’t that sound better?

By Ryan Barkow

December 6, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

where are you getting this info about mlb homeplate, its prolly untrue and where is espnews reporting the trade, im watching it and online and i see nothing, please help out

By Lew

December 6, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

Billy-Thanks, Dude. At least someone is talking some sense here. Let’s get this straight now people. Andruw is not going to be traded and may, indeed, resign with the Braves. The Braves are not going to get Carl Crawford. The Braves are not going to get Richie Sexson. The Braves are not going to give up two valuable players (trade-wise, anyway) like LarOche and Giles for a second baseman no better than Giles and a rookie pitcher with an ERA of 9.00. None of these deals make a damn bit of sense for amny reasons. The Dodgers are not going to trade Billingsley, but Penny may be on the block now that they signed Schmidt. Deals have to make sense, hopefully for both teams. Teams that are looking for pitching are not going to sign ouitfielders. Teams trying to save payroll are not going to trade $6 million pitchers for $14 million firstbasemen. People, you are Braves fans. Tjis certainly means you are intelligent and discriminating people (except Darrin). Like Billy says-act like it, for crying out loud. Amen and Selah, y’all.

By David

December 6, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

The Chipper and Hampton is directly linked to Bobby Cox desire/need for the old guys. Chipper lost his effectiveness years ago. Hampton couldn’t even get a job after Colorado, and the Braves gave the house to keep him. These decisions will keep the braves mediocre for years to come. I wouldn’t be surprised if Schuerholz doesn’t bolt to better organization. We can then relive the ’80s.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this

I may have misjudge Lazyroche but I doubt it he more than likely was and is a one year wonder and after watching all season i still back my opinion 100% that he is not what you think he is or big jihn wouldnt be dealing him

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

Does ESPN report anything other than large market teams? It’s hilarious. Every post today concerns a large market team…

By BB FAN

December 6, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Would Giles be a fit in TB if Salty was included for Baldelli?

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

Phat Phalcon

Insult me all you want….you cant hold my jock idiot.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Well, if Littlefield drags his feet and JS says “forget it” it will be his loss and not ours. Either way LaRoche is gone. JS is starting to show some of that genius he has been labled with. Think about this. By getting Soriano he has a setup guy in place menaning he doesn’t have to kiss the Pirates butt. He wants Gonzales but now deals from a position of power. The bullpen right now is the second or third best in NL. With Gonzales it would be the best. All JS has to do is tell the Pirates to either make the deal or he goes to the Angels. I gurantee the Angels will still want LaRoche because he will be a hell of a lot cheaper than any other option. If Mike Gonzales is not a Brave by midnight tonight, then I really believe that Chione Figgins and Casey Kotchman will be Braves by the end of the meetings tomorrow. I’m sure JS will also remind that idiot Littlefield that LaRoche is by far the cheapest option they have for what they want. Again, a stroke of genius. And like DOB said, they can now deal Giles for whatever they want. Knowing that pitching won’t be a main target of the Braves I think the suitors will be lined up at the door for Giles. Rumors are flowing that the Tigers are looking to trade Marcus Thames or Craig Monroe. They could use a 2B and Lord knows that the Braves could use Thames or Monroe especially if LaRoche is indeed traded.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this

79 wins creates my thinking and being a season ticket holder gives me the right to pass that judgement i like all of you maybe do pay the salaries with out the paying fans and i dont mean the ones who stay home b/c of traffic and prices these guys would prob be working stiffs like us now i dont blame guys for getting all they can but how much is enough and what ever happened to loyalty say what you will but i would still go to A.J and say your outta here this week

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

David,

Can you support the fact that Chipper has lost his effectivness? Please do if you can so I can give it the old fashion smack down. Hampton mabey a valid point however, there was no way we knew he would need TJ surgery.

By silky-d

December 6, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

ESPN just reported that a Boston newspaper is reporting that Ramirez was traded for Soriano.

By BB FAN

December 6, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

darrin,

You can claim Andruw’s contract is too much for the Braves but don’t say his defense is not good enough or that he is not clutch! The guy has 9 gold gloves (from 1998-2006). He has a combined 92 Homers and 257 RBIs the last 2 years. He carried the Braves on his back for 4 months in 2005 and he hit .289 with runners in scoring position in 2006.

If the braves can’t re-sign him, they will not only get 2 additional draft picks but they will have $13.5 million to play with. And while the draft picks are not sure things, the Braves have a great scouting team.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

As much as I would love to see Crawford in a Braves’ uniform, it isn’t going to happen. I’m convinced now that the Rays just don’t want to let him go…yet. Last year, ESPN widely reported that the Angels offered Izturius and Santanta for him and D-Rays said no. Now, Baldelli is a different story. I think that deal could definitely go down.

By Phat Phalcon

December 6, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Remember when we were considered big market? Seems like a long time ago doesn’t it? To think we used to go out and grab a Maddux, McGriff, Galarraga, or Neagle. Those were the days…

By Lew

December 6, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this

David-Just what part of Chipper’s .324 BA with 26HR and 86 RBI in 110 games is ineffective? He is #3 on the all time list for HR by a switch hitter and is the ONLY switch hitter EVER with a career BA over .300. All you just proved is that you don’t know your butt from a hole in the ground.

By Bob

December 6, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this

Gosh, Darrin, Laroche is NOT lazy and I have never heard that AJ was a cancer in the clubhouse. Why don’t you just drop it? By the way, thanks for stopping the CAPS.

By Phat Phalcon

December 6, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this

You have a jock idiot? Are the two of you related or involved? Or both??

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

D-Rays won’t trade Crawford unless they’re completely bowled over…say, Sandy Koufax, Ted Williams, Bath Ruth, Tom Seaver, and Nolan Ryan all in their primes. That GM should hang out with the Pirates GM. Morons.

By MadduxRules

December 6, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this

I was listenting to MLB Homeplate on XM during my ride home from work. Heath, I think the scenarios you mentioned make a lot of sense.

By Marty

December 6, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

Guys, keep in mind that Darrin is the same moron who thinks that we should try to get Willy Taveras…because I guess guys with no power and a .300 OBP are just that hard to find.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

I didnt say his defense was inept learn how to read i said despite his defensive abilities he strikes out too much and he is not clutch if you look at the stats his home run ratio with runners on as opposed to bases empty sucked.

By Bravo Nam

December 6, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

I had to make a big effort to find a computer while I’m on my Nam-Oz-Cambodia transition. Things were just getting too exciting.

Looks like the Nam and Robert (JITB) might have the last laugh on Gonzalez- a month ago we were saying the Braves needed to go hard after Gonzalez. Many bloggers disagreed saying there was not a need now that we had Wickman…and the Braves wouldn’t get him anyway. But our point was that if you have a lead when the starter bows out, you still need to get the ball to Wickman- and given the large number of saves we blew this past year in the 7th and 8th innings, it was a must we brought in a lights out set-up. Gonzalez is the man. He is a stud…one other thing…the Braves are not going to trade LaRoche simply for a set-up man…the Braves will groom Gonzalez to take over as our closer…and if they pick up Soriano, he’ll be our primary set-up man, and serve as a closer on stand-by should Gonzalez go down. Let’s hope the Braves get Gonzalez. With Gonzalez, Soriano and Wickman, in my opinion, you have the best 1-2-3 punch in MLB. Can you imagine how much our starters are licking their lips at the thought of getting both Gonzalez and Soriano on board?

If we get both, the Braves won’t need any additional relievers. We already have enoguh players in the organization to fill the other spots.

What the Braves must focus on is resigning Ward, getting a bat and a starter. You can’t go into a season with Davies as a fifth starter- I agree with Shaun and a few others that there’s a good chance he’ll rebound, but given his injuries and psychological issues, you just absolutely must have someone competing with him for that 5th position.

And any talk of trading James is just that- I believe that in the minds of the Braves, he is already seen as virtually untouchable- he and McCann are the last two players I believe the Braves would ever consider trading.

The Mets and the rest of the NL will be shaking in their boots if the Braves pick up these two guys- they essentially mean that if the Braves have a lead when the SP hands it over to the BP, kiss the game goodbye!

DOB Outstanding effort getting two new blogs up two days in a row given that you’re spending most of your 24 hours a day running around a hotel and filing articles for the AJC- lucky to have you.

By dadgum

December 6, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

Good trade for teh Braves…..Ramirez is an enigma. Not saying Soriano is perfect but I’ll take my chances with Soriano and his ability to help the middle relief over the Horam every 5th start prayer. JS absolutely stole that trade.

Giving up LaRoche is very weird though for the Braves. Here is a guy still very affordable who plays great defense (minus one play) and hit the ball great last year. Why trade that bat that will protect our other hitters and put a Scott Thorman at first who showed virtually nothing with Atlanta other than the oft mentioned upside.

Still waiting on that starter which after trading Horam we will need. We’ll see.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

never the less laroche is gone im happy and well merry christmas to everyone who loves him i dont id rather have mike lum back

By darrin

December 6, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this

a more sane trade will prob take place like laroche and davies to the angels for figgins and kotchman with adenthal the pitcher now that i have stirred you up everybody rejoice our pen just got better J.S is a genious

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

Phat Phalcon,

You really want to play these childish games…ask a question, one that hasnt been answered a dozen times before (see your posted stamped ,December 6, 2006 08:22 PM). Or you could simply make a post with logical ideas or thoughts but no you start attacking me…

Get a life man…

You can continue and have the last word with your lame insults, as I’ve stooped low enough already and wont respond.

By Heath

December 6, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

…also something to keep an eye on…since lilly opted to sign with the cubs instead of the yankees, pettite’s decision between the yankees and astros is VERY important. if pettite decides to stay with the ‘stros, the yanks might even MAKE a phone call to the braves about hudson instead of just listening to proposals…that could allow a serious run at AJ…just another thought i might throw out there

By Wayde

December 6, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

Come on now Dave.. The salaries mentioned in this long rambling message are low compared to what is being given out right now. Just wait and watch what Andruw will get when he is on the open market. My Goodness Maddux just got 10mil so the money we are giving Smoltzy and Hudson are great deals for the Braves. Its the economic times man. You have to spinkle in a few new young low salaried guys each year.

By Andrew

December 6, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

If LaRoche does indeed get traded, I can see the Braves moving Giles to the Angels for Figgins/Kotchman…or whatever.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this

Darrin-It might be alot easier to read if you learned a bit about capitalization and punctuation-you know the stuff most of us learned in grammar school? You have yelled an rambled damn near incoherently for over an hour now and haven’t said much of anything that makes a damn bit of sense. You might get some respect and agreement if you could read your responses and if they actually had some worthwhile content. You really do need some downers, Dude.

By Miss Manners

December 6, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

All us ladies - Carolina Ladye, Flabravesgirl, Carroll, and myself realize that Stinky blogs whenever one of us is blogging. Now, it ain’t Carolina Lady and it ain’t Flabravesgirl so who can it be?

By Phat Phalcon

December 6, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

Mike Lum?? Who?? Come clean Darrin how old are you? Isn’t it past your bedtime?

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

darrin,

“learn how to read”

That was funny coming from you…I actully spit my coke all over my key board.

By Phat Phalcon

December 6, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

I’ve got plenty of ideas there, Bill. With respect to insults let’s recap… I offered to get you laid because you seemed a bit stressed based on the 8:15 post (hardly an insult). You then said “You couldn’t hold my jock idiot).

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

Soriano certainly gives JS the whip hand in the Pittsburgh trade, a good thing since LIttlefield is known (rightly or wrongly) for being cantankerous near closing time. I don’t have any doubt that, in fact, Gonzalez is more important to the Braves than LaRoche is to the Pirates, but at least the Soriano trade keeps everybody at the table honest (well, kinda, sorta).

But, man, all that gas after the 6th. If Yates ever learns to spot his breaking ball effectively, oh, man, some combination of Yates, Boyer, Soriano, Gonzalez at the end of every game? yowza, bubba. Wickman can throw that “lollipop” 92 in there, and it’ll be like a changeup. Guys will starting their swings when the catcher gives the sign, and Wick’s slider may cause strained obliques all over the NL, LOL. Oh, man…who’d a thunk?

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

Cubs sign Lilly; 4 years 40 mill

By Charles

December 6, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

There has been no announcement yet on either the Braves nor Mariners websites regarding the trade of Ramirez for Soriano. Is there possibly something else brewing involving another team? Just a thought.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

Jim Hendry must have never met a free agent he didn’t like.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

now, as for A.J. being clutch he batted .279 in 174 chances with runners on base not .289. he only hit 8 hr with risp,and only 2 with 2 out. 0 extra inning hr,and a .150 avg in clutch situations,.115 against pitt.,.156 against fla. and .246 against nym. all year and you guys say that he is clutch oh and i’ll throw in 127 strike outs.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this

do you want LaRoche next up for stats

By darrin

December 6, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

oh yeah Mike Lum was playing first when you were in your diapies i guess you dont know who Darrell Evans is either

By Bob

December 6, 2006 09:22 PM | Link to this

Hell, Keep Rietsma and trade Darrin

By briana

December 6, 2006 09:22 PM | Link to this

If you end up getting Mike Gonzalez, you will love him. He brings passion to the game, as well as his outstanding skill.

As a pirate fan, we feel he is very much an even trade for LaRoche. Gonzo is going to become a premier closer in the game in future years.

I’ve watched him in person many times and he is exciting to watch, and usually brings home the win.

We don’t want to give him up. But if we do, I wish him well with you. On a team that has perpetual losers running the organization, you never heard Gonzo complain. He’s a worker and you’ll love having him, and we’ll miss him at PNC.

By JJMB

December 6, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this

65th anniversary of Pearl Harbor tomorrow. Interesting write up from Hawaii.

By Phat Phalcon

December 6, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this

Lilly at 11 per. Thank god for Smoltzie.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

Classy post, Briana. Alot more pleasant than our “friends” from New York.

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

good grief, if I see the names Figgins and Kotchman mentioned one more time, I think I’m just gonna go ahead have the lobotomy before my head explodes. That certainly isn’t the lamest trade proposed by the blog, but it’s sure top 5, and gaining on the leader. I can only assume the hot stove has inflicted too many folks with brain fever. But, please!

By Dave

December 6, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

DOB - With Soriano now in the bag, do the Braves really want Gonzalez more than LaRoche? The Giles/Linebrink(sp)seems like a better option if it can be pulled off. I really think the Braves improved dramatically with Soriano deal.

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this

wow, I did know we withdrew our offer for gonzo…hmmmm

By Josh

December 6, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this

David, you said the trade was pulled between the Braves/Pirates why is that? Is there something else brewing because I hope we trade Giles and ‘Roche!

By Charles

December 6, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

Never mind about my last comment. DOB has posted his article and relays that the trade of LaRoche for Gonzalez is off the table. Thanks DOB.

By Dane

December 6, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

I read on the Pittsburgh Post Gazette website the Braves pulled away from the offer for Gonzalez. I don’t know if that was earlier but I just thought I would share it with you guys.

By Charles

December 6, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

Forgive me, I am a little late to the table on these things. I am working on it. I don’t do blogs very well.

By N8

December 6, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

Story by DOB on Braves page on AJC, states that Braves have “withdrawn” their offer to the Pirates for Gonzalez, now that they got Soriano.

Sounds like they’ll turn to the Angels and “dangle” LaRoche.

We will return to “As the World Turns” after these messages…..

By ernesto

December 6, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

Good job JS. I don’t know Soriano outside of a stat sheet, but he looks like just what we needed, that is some fine wheelin’ and dealin’.

By Marty

December 6, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

Hey idiot Darrin — LaRoche was 7th in the NL last year in slugging percentage and 10th in OPS. Shut up.

By MadduxRules

December 6, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What’s going on? Is something else up with LaRoche? Have you heard anything about the Braves & D-Rays talking? Do you expect any more moves?

By Phat Phalcon

December 6, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

Briana I had the pleasure of visiting PNC. Absolutely gorgeous except for Oliver shutting us down. As much pain as the postseason failures have caused I truly feel for Pirates and Royals fans. Both cities have great baseball history and both have been screwed by recent economics. By the way, see if you can’t talk to that front office about sliding Mr. Bay our way…

By Dogham

December 6, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this

If the Ramirez for Soriano deal goes through, i think the M’s come out on the better end. Ramirez could be a 15 game winner in the AL. Soriano seems to get tired very easy and breaks down physically. Guess we will see in the long run.

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

darrin,

If you really think that about Andruw, I would imagine most other clubs would as well. With that said, your idea about the players the Dodgers giving up does not make much since…as their basically getting a player who “His defense dose not make up for him striking out too much and he is not clutch” and “CANCER IN OUR CLUBHOUSE” (your caps not mine) and finally “along w”ith HIS AGENT IS SCOTT BORA$$…

Answer me if all of this is true why would the dodgers give up so much talent for a player that obvioulsy by your standards is overrated…

Dont answer…it’s ok…I understand, your excited and that can have an effect on the mind…just calm down..got drink some kool aide then come back with rational thoughts.

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 6, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

Wow, DOB you put the difficult situation that JS is in right now in stark perspective. Thanks for that.

Don’t worry about firing Time Warner, they’re not going to be in the picture very much longer. I doubt Liberty will be much better, but I do see a short term bump in payroll once Liberty takes the reins. Since TW and Liberty are neck deep into the deal, hands are tied folks. I believe anonymous’ post about TW losing money in other parts of their business. And I know that TW is also losing money yearly with the Braves. Very few MLB owners break even much less turn a profit solely on the operations of the team. That said, not sure if Blank would be the best owner for the team long term, but then he might be. I have a feeling that Liberty will not have the team too long, and will look to sell the team, but for now, I will just be happy when the deal closes. That’s when we find out what Liberty’s plans are and what adjustment will be made to payroll.

Phat Phalcon. Atlanta has never been big market, however it was very very easy for the team to compete financially as long as Turner held the purse strings. It was also much easier within the financial framework of the game and the cost structure of player salaries to afford to go after free agents. Now the economies of the free agent market, the limits on payroll and how top heavy it truely is, thanks to our friend DOB, make it extremely difficult for JS to sign/trade anyone without clearing out payroll to afford it.

For those of you that like to criticize JS for sitting on his hands and doing nothing, why don’t you try and see how long you last going to the grocery store and spending $80 instead of $120 or $140 or $160. Hurts a bit, don’t it?

I’m fine with the HoRam trade to Seattle for Soriano. I’m still holding out hope for Figgins just because I like the way he plays the game, but I’ll be okay if we don’t land him.

By Carolina Lady

December 6, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

Braves trade Ramirez for solid set-up man

By DAVID O’BRIEN The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 12/06/06

Lake Buena Vista, Fla. — The Braves got the elite setup man they wanted Wednesday when they agreed to trade injury-plagued starting pitcher Horacio Ramirez to Seattle for reliever Rafael Soriano, who has a 2.89 career ERA and 177 strikeouts in 171 innings.

The deal, expected to be announced late Wednesday or Thursday, was confirmed by an official with one of the teams. It doesn’t guarantee that the Braves will keep first baseman Adam LaRoche, but the Braves withdrew their offer of LaRoche for Pirates closer Mike Gonzalez.

By Calvin

December 6, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this

I like it. Good trade.

By Dave

December 6, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

DOB: The story of the day should be “JS Gets His Revenge.” He gets his fine set-up man and yanks the rug out from under Pittsburgh (remember the Bonds “trade” ten years or so ago. How sweet it is…

By DieFox

December 6, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Is the Laroche/Gonzalez deal completely, 100% dead? Or is there a chance Littlefield will be able to retract his lack of action by the end of the night?

By darrin

December 6, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this

Yes and Laroche hit .254 with risp with no one out and .215 with risp and two out he is Mr. clutch alright

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 6, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this

Nice thing to say briana. My best friend is a Pirates fan, so he has no sympathy whatsoever with me.

Went to PNC Park two years ago to watch the Pirates play. Beautiful ballpark. Wonderful view of downtown Pittsburgh and it was fun walking across the Roberto Clemente bridge before and after the game. It’s a shame the franchise has struggled so much in the last 10 years.

Good luck to you and the Bucs in 2007.

By DieFox

December 6, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Is the Laroche/Gonzalez deal completely, 100% dead, or is there a chance Littlefield can retract his lack of action by the end of the night?

By DieFox

December 6, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Is the Laroche/Gonzalez deal completely, 100% dead, or is there a chance Littlefield can retract his lack of action by the end of the night?

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Is this the greuling part of the job ;) ?

By DieFox

December 6, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the double post, folks.

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this

Dave, revenge may be sweet, but I doubt Soriano will have the impact that Gonzalez would have. Oh, well, should have known that was too much to hope for. Still leaves the Braves looking for left-handed relief, too.

By Dave

December 6, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this

DOB: The story of the day should be “JS Gets His Revenge.” He gets his fine set-up man and yanks the rug out from under Pittsburgh (remember the Bonds “trade” ten years or so ago. How sweet it is…

By darrin

December 6, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

while i do agree with you, Laroche is an upgrade over julio franco he is not a clutch hitter one good season does not a player makethat kind of thing happens when pitching is watered down.I applaud Mr Schuerholz on this trade he is the master and will get what he wants to keep this team competetive but i dont see hall of fame all over A. jones or A laroche

By Bob

December 6, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

Guys, not sure I like the prospect of Liberty taking over, but doubt it could be worse than Time Warner. For a long time I was hoping for Arthur Blank, but not sure that would work. Can you imagine Arthur Blank in the Dugout with Bobby Cox in the 8th inning every night for 162 games. Bobby would be rockin back and forth like Leo by the time the 7th inning stretch came around.

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

As far as coverage goes for the Winter meetings, I think ESPN.com, MLB.com, and SI.com are getting spanked by FOX.com.

DOB’s on fire tonight. Question:

Did Atlanta play Pitt. against the Angels or other clubs for LaRoach in order to drive up the price?

By Phat Phalcon

December 6, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

I have to say that I’m not sure Figgins and Kotchman is any better than LaRoche and whoever we have (Prado, Aybar, etc.). Bat Edgar first and the 2B second. Moral of the story: if a payroll dump is needed give Giles away for the best prospects you can get for him and keep Adam.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

get used to the name Figgins he is coming

By Jman

December 6, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

Well to give up LaRoche for a guy who missed the entire last month of the season with elbow problems concerned me a bit. So to get Soriano for relatively cheap. Horacio never really impressed me. He had minor glimpses but never grew into his potential.

By Heath

December 6, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this

a linebrink/giles trade may be all that the braves need… if that trade goes through, the braves really improve their bullpen and basically lose no offensive fire power. prada could play second and we could live with what might be equal offensive numbers to what giles put up this year with improved defense… laroche has improved every year and he would likely hit 3rd and 5th (3rd when chipper is out)…

By darrin

December 6, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this

Really DOB is anything else happening on the trade front tonight? and what are the chances of Baldelli really coming here? or will it be Figgins? and how about Giles to S.D. for Cla Meredith instead of Linebrink, that guy can bring smoke too.

By riprock

December 6, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

CBSsportline reporting Todd Walker accepted arbitration from Padres…could put the kaybosh to possible Giles deal for Linebrink unless Pads decide to upgrade Walker.

By rainman

December 6, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

if we do get figgins no one will be upset after they see him play. I also think throman could be real nice at first. If these trades do go through i would like to see us go after someone like craig wilson to help at first and the outfield and be our third catcher bobby loves.

By Jonathan

December 6, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

Personally i like what is going on. LaRoche’s value has never been higher and JS knows that…i think he’s going take advantage of it. Getting a guy like Figgin’s and great prospect like Kotchman is a good deal for us. Given the way Thorman tore the cover off of the ball and using Ward at 1B as well is at least even to what LaRoche brings. Giles for linebrink trade works great as well…just fixed our bullpen issues.

Oh…we got a STEAL for Soriano…the guy has NASTY stuff!!! just my opinion

By Jamie in Richmond

December 6, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this

Darrin:

I’m with you on Cla Meredith. He offers an entirely different look, coming from down under as he does. I’d love to see Atl approach SD about a Giles for Meredith deal. DOB: Think that’d be more to SD’s liking? They wouldnt have to give up L’brink and we’d still be getting a dude with potential to grow into a huge role in the future…

I like it.

By Carolina Lady

December 6, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this

Evenin’, Darrin! If you read the entries DOB has already made, you would find some answers to your questions, I think. There’s no way for him to know who is going where until the team officials tell him. :-)

By Josh

December 6, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

Figgins is an excellent leadoff hitter with amazing speed, and exactly the table-setter this team needs at the top of the lineup.

By Braves_Fan_in_Bangladesh

December 6, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

Great work Mr. O’Brien. You are making this so much fun for all of us!

As we have withdrawn our offer for Gonzalez, we should also withdraw our offer for Linebrink, for how many relievers do we need? I think we are pretty well set in the ‘pen, and we can simply pursue the best available offer for Giles and/or LaRoche.

Obviously, having more top-notch relievers is always welcome. But when you have limited resources, it would be unwise to put all of our eggs in the bullpen basekt.

By tmoney in ben hill

December 6, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

why no more talk of carl crawford coming?? he is worth giving up laroche and another pitcher…..he is about to get too expensive for the rays. lets try that!

By LA Brave

December 6, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

DOB, It seems to me that the next move should be Hudson and LaRoche for Figgins and Ervin Santana. I don’t think Ervin is untouchable and the Angels played in the same division as Hudson’s A’s and could be convinced that a return to the AL would be what the doctor ordered for him. That would dump salary and add a great young arm and a lead off hitter. I think it’s do-able.

By ssiscribe

December 6, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

Soriano for HoRam? You gotta be kidding me? This is a HECK of a deal for the Braves, an absolutely lights-out dude for a guy who, in my opinion, needs a change of scenery.

I have concerns about LaRoche being traded, but if AL’s gotta go, get a leadoff hitter in return. I like the potential of Figgins at the top of the lineup and his versatility is a plus.

DOB, hope you’re enjoying the over-excess at Dark Star. It’s supposed to be 16 back in the ATL Friday night; you might want to stay at Disney a couple of extra days.

By Ron Roberts

December 6, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

All this talk about JS “getting over” on Seattle is premature, frankly. I personally love this trade - for both teams.

Seattle had an abundance of relief pitching, and we have, what, 6-7 options for starters? So we give up a still-young, plenty of upside if he stays healthy starter for a still-young plenty of upside reliever. Brilliant.

I read Cox’s Q&A and came away actually very excited about this 2007 squad. Putting Thorman in LF with some quality playing time sounds like the right thing to do, if LaRoche doesn’t get moved. Loved his bat, frankly. I think it was also fairly telling that Bobby said (I’m paraphrasing) to heck with a lead-off man if we have good pitching. He’s right. We didn’t really have a formidable leadoff guy all last season and we were near the top of the lague in scoring and yet finished with a losing record.

If JS doesn’t touch the starting eight and we score about as much as we did last year, this upgraded bullpen, along with all the options Cox has for a five-man rotation, makes this team not only good but deep. And let’s face it, every team battles injuries… this team’s just built better to deal with them if we stay where we are right now.

If the Braves don’t move Giels, I’d expect last year to be the abberation and not 2003, 2004 and 2005. If the Braves don’t move LaRoche, I think we’d get no less than the 20 HR/78 RBI we got outta him in 2005, and would have every reason to believe he’d do better than that, if not as well as last year, with confidence gained.

But in reality, we all know that it seems like one of them is getting moved. I’m just glad we’re in a position now to deal if we want to and not so mcuh from a position of we have to. That sorta psychology plays into the inner-thinking of these negotations.

By tfbrave

December 6, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

DOB

On your numbers stated in the article, wouldn’t Smoltz’s signing bonus be paid out over the two guaranteed years (2005,2006). Meaning he would only be owed in 2007 $8M. Francoeur, Diaz, McCann, Langerhans, Willy Aybar, and McBride might total in the neighborhood of $3M next year. So having that extra $3M from the inclusion of Smoltz’s salary would help. That would be the 7 players mentioned above and the 6 players I mentioned for the total you gave of $66M. Leaving $14M for 12 players.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

I wonder if a LaRoche to Tampa deal could be in the works. Possibly LaRoche and Giles to Tampa for Cantu and Baldelli or simply LaRoche and maybe Devine or Yates to Tampa for Baldelli. The Braves then could shop Giles to the Angels for Howie Kendrick or the Tigers for Curtis Granderson and a prospect. I also think a trade with the Red Sox featuring Giles for Cocoa Crisp could be very interesting. The Sox are planning to go with Alex Cora or Dustin Pedora at 2B but I can’t believe they would really want to do that when they could have Giles. Crisp is the odd man out now that it appears Manny is staying. The Sox also have said they want to keep Trot Nixon and it would appear so since they offered him arbitration. Not to mention they have Wily Mo Pena. I think now would be the time to go after Crisp. Yes, it would basically be offering salary for salary but, Crisp brings speed and when healthy a good hitter. I say LaRoche to the Angels to make Figgins the 2B and Giles to the Sox for Crisp and that solves the issues in LF.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

I tend to believe that a Cla Meredith trade is more up J.S. alley he is known for surprises and i think S.D. would probably go for it what a steal that would be i like him better than Linebrink,on other fronts i still believe Laroche will be traded by tomorrow possibly to the Angels.what do you think? still havent heard from DOB.

By parks

December 6, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

per rotoworld.com , the Laroche for Gonzales trade is dead

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

Ok can we have more than 5 post before someone ask another quesiton about Badelli or Crawford….for thatm atter someone show me where there is legit stuff saying the D-Rays and Braves are talking about those two….not speculaiton….DOB has answered question about C. Crawford and Badelli over and over…shut up about it already.

P.S. for people who dont reg. read the blog C. Crawford/R. Baddli has been speculated each and everyway. The general concensus of the smart baseball people hear agree that D-Rays are not giong to trade C. Crawford for what we would offer…who knows about Baddli but no legit site has posted anything linking the braves to him.

could someone please explain the infacuation (sorry for the spelling) people have for Badelli now?

By Anonymous

December 6, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

Miss Manners,

No, I wasn’t “let go” and I am doing quite well at this time. Thank you.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

NO WAY HUDSON GETS TRADED NOW it will be giles,laroche and davies most likely.Im with Jamie he is the only smart one here! and is there any truth to the bravos shopping Salty?

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

parks,

im ranting tonight so dont take this personal

YOUR QUICK

By Jamie in Richmond

December 6, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

Darrin:

Right on. The Pads might even think they were getting off lightly in surrendering Cla given Atl’s long interest in Linebrink. A deal for Meredith would be tremendous, IMO. I’d love to see it get done. He was a beast when he pithced here in college.

By Charles

December 6, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

What do you make of this: Freddy Garcia has been traded from the White Sox to the Phillies for Gavin Floyd and minor-league left-hander Gio Gonzalez, according to Fox Sports.

By GBR

December 6, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

If you don’t like the Braves trading Ramirez for Soriano you must have also been hit in the head with a baseball and what are the odds of that!

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

The fascination with Baldelli is primarily over his “porn name.” I mean really, “Rocco Baldelli.” Imagine the bad synth music and slap-bass line as he approaches the plate.

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

1st Major site to post

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2689101

By Charles

December 6, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

I ask my question as to what it might mean for the Braves, if anything.

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this

Freddy Garcia is now inthe NL east

“The Phillies and White Sox have pulled off a deal: Freddy Garcia to Philly for Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd.” - ESPN

By KC

December 6, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this

The interesting question now is: Do the Braves look for another starter, or are they confident enough in Kyle Davies to give him another crack at the 5th starter job?

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this

Imagine a group of drunkened Braves fans dressed as penises as Skip carey states that “a member of Roc’s cocks from Shellman, Georgia just came away with a foul ball.”

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

The Phillies will find some way to screw up no matter who they add. Relax.

By KC

December 6, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

Well Lew, you’re probably pretty happy about this move. I’m a little conflicted, but I think it was a good move.

By Jamie in Richmond

December 6, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

Darrin:

Thanks bud. I appreciate that :) Although we still might have to trade Hudson to make payrool room, even though we did just move one of our starters. I know what you’re saying, but per the original blog and where Atl stands in regards to payroll, Huddy may still need to move.

But you can start that Cla Meredith to Al petition whenever you want. You know I’ll sign it.

By tkg

December 6, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

I like some of what your said, Robert, just not the whole LaRoche to D-Rays for Baldelli thing. That would be a steal for Braves because then they could let Andruw walk after next year, but the D-Rays would be getting fleeced in that deal. They won’t do it.

However, Giles to Boston for Crisp and LaRoche to the Angels for Figgins and probably Casey Kotchman would be dramatically change the landscape of the Braves lineup — and both deals make a ton of sense.

Imagine this: 1. Figgins, 2B 2. Renteria, SS 3. Chipper, 3B 4. Andruw, CF 5. McCann, C 6. Francouer, RF 7. Thorman/Kotchman/D.Ward, 1B 8. Crisp/Thorman/D. Ward, LF

Plus, you’ve got Aybar as the super sub and I assume Orr and Diaz off the bench. That’s not too bad of an offense. You’ve got a nice mix of power and speed.

The Ho-Ram deal is a good risk for both teams, really. Braves bullpen gets better, that’s for sure, especially if Soriano is healthy. If he’s rock solid along with Wickman, you’ve got to think one or two of those young guys (Boyer, for example) can handle the seventh and sometimes eighth. And then Soriano can close on days when Wickman needs rest … Braves have some interesting opportunities before them through trades after this Ho-Ram deal, that’s for sure.

By darrin

December 6, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

Garcia dont mean nothing to the braves the phillies are in a world of hurt right now.

By KC

December 6, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this

My prediction for HoRam next year in Seattle (if he stays healthy):

15-9, 3.70 ERA

By The Grinch

December 6, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this

Now batting for the Braves, no. 24, Roc-cooooooooo BalDELLI. Whamp Whamp Whamp-um Whump (wacka-chicka wacka-chicka) DOOP doop doop de-doop…yeah, GHF; all he needs with that is the ‘stache. :-)

By Louis Vales

December 6, 2006 10:55 PM | Link to this

They won 1 less World Championship than the Marlins with a huge payroll so maybe a smaller payroll is just the ticket.

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

Just finished write-through of my Soriano trade story. By the way, deal probably won’t get announced tonight, but only because the Mariners doctor was flying today and needed to sign off on it, and they might just wait to announce it Thursday. It’d be very shocking if it didn’t go through.

Meanwhile, as I wrote in my story, this doesn’t at all mean the Braves won’t trade LaRoche. It could lead them back to the Angels, since the only thing that held up the previous deal for Figgins/Kotchman was the Braves’ demand to include a reliever in that deal. Now, the Braves don’t have to demand one, but could perhaps ask for a lesser piece to be thrown in with Figgins and Kotchman.

If they do that, it’d be a very successful winter meetings for the Braves, who would have bolstered the bullpen and acquired a leadoff man/second baseman in Figgins, which would then enable them to dump Giles’ salary for whatever they can get.

They’d have Kotchman to compete with Thorman at first base. This is just me speculating, though, and I don’t know if the Braves have or will revive those talks. Just makes a lot of sense.

They could decide that they don’t need to trade LaRoche if they get rid of Giles’ $5-plus mill projected. This might be their best course, since the Braves could keep LaRoche’s big bat and fill in at second base with Prado and/or Orr, maybe Aybar at times, whatever. Or try to get a cheap guy later.

Giles’ trade value just isn’t very high, as we’ve learned here. teams ain’t offering much for him, because of his salary, declined production, whatever else they’re concerned with.

LaRoche, teams are dying to get. But if the Braves trade him, they’re only shedding about $3 mill or so in salary, so is it really worth it to open that hole in their lineup? Other side of that is, they could get Figgins for the next two years and perhaps Kotchman turns out to be a good player.

Anyway, so much still swirling. I don’t think there’s ANYTHING to three-way trade rumors, at least not enough to warrant getting excited or hopeful or worried about. Too much has to happen to pull them off, and we’ve gone over the Andruw situation enough times, how he’d first have to waive his 10-and-5 veto, then have Boras work out a huge contract extension with team he’s going to (actually they’d have to work that out before he’d waive veto).

And Boras and the Dodgers are on the outs right now, the club still peeved at the whole J.D. Drew thing, big time.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

Well, Billy, actually DOB said the Devil Rays rumors had some legs. He just wouldn’t say who was being discussed from the Braves side. You’re right about Crawford. He did say that wasn’t happening.

I have a couple of trade proposals. What about LaRoche to the Red Sox for Youklis and Crisp. Now, why would the Red Sox make this deal? To stay one step ahead of the Yankees. They already have the pitching edge. Offensively they are a step behind. With LaRoche? Imagine this lineup: 1. Lugo (ss) 2. Pedora or Cora (2B) 3. Ortiz (DH) 4. Ramirez (LF) 5. Drew (RF) 6. Pena or Nixon (CF) 7. LaRoche (1B) 8. Lowell (3B) 9. Varitek (C) Now, tell me that isn’t one heck of a lineup. The Braves could put Youklis at 1B and Crisp could go to LF.

Another trade possibility. LaRoche to the Yankees for Melkey Cabrerra. Cabrerra solves the LF problem and leadoff. With the salary difference the Braves could keep Giles or still trade him. They could even keep him until the trade deadline in June and allow Prado to get a bit more seasoning and turn the reigns over to Prado in July. LaRoche solves the Yanks problem at 1B for a defensive 1B and not to mention LaRoche would rake in Yankee Stadium. Someone on here yesterday went on about the NY media but it would really be a non-issue becasue LaRoche would be so low down on the totem pole in regards to the attention he would fit in perfectly.

Another trade idea is to keep LaRoche and trade Giles to the Tigers for either Monroe or Granderson plus a prospect.

Just some ideas.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

I’d play Figgins in left. he played 2nd base for 9 games last year and well over 100 in the outfield. He spent more time in the outfield than 2nd in 2005 as well. Let one of our current guys have a shot at 2nd and let Figgins play left (assuming we get him).

By darrin

December 6, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this

lol that was goog grinch verrrrry good lmao.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

The ‘stache and back acne…oh, and hair-gell…lots of it.

By KC

December 6, 2006 11:02 PM | Link to this

It’s too bad SD won’t part with Peavy. We could send them Laroche, Giles, Davies, and a minor league pitcher

for

Peavy and Linebrink (yes, Linebrink too. Why not cement this Braves bullpen as the best in baseball?)

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 11:05 PM | Link to this

The only way I see the Angels wanting Hudson is if the Rangers got Zito. While I would love for a Hudson and Giles for Figgins and Santana trade I don’t see it happening.

I think the Braves are praying that Hudson has a terrific 2007 so it will make it easier to trade him next offseason. I have a feeling he isn’t going anywhere. Who knows. Knowing that he is on display so to speak will make Huddy pump it up a little bit. I see JS looking long range and thinking if Hudson has a great year next year he can offer him to the Yanks next offseason because how much does old Randy Johnson really have left in the tank?

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 6, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

Of course, as part of the deal JS should insist that Figgins change the spelling of his first name.

By Dave

December 6, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

DOB or anybody else know what Casey Kotchman has done in the minors last couple of years?

By KC

December 6, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this

GHF:

Of course, Matt Diaz did hit .327 over 297 at-bats. Don’t you think he’s earned a chance to play every day?

By Carolina Lady

December 6, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this

Salute, DOB! You are a shoo-in for the Wurlitzer this year! Just an excellent job you’re doing! Thanks!!

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 6, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

Man, I love this blog - not having to wait for the talking heads on TV give their 15 second spiel on the trade, and getting the info as it happens, is awesome.

I know nothing about Soriano. But, if he is close to what I have read here, this deal is a steal for the Braves. JS does it again - reckon we’ll find out next season.

I have mixed feelings about trading LaRoche at this point, given the Soriano deal. He had such a great year, his first without being platooned - and did well against left handed pitching. But, if we can get a stud, as Gonzalez is reputed to be, well, I’ll leave it to the experts (JS, BC and the bloggers here who think they know everything) to make the best decision.

I ranted on DOB’s previous post about the insanity of the current FA market. Seems it is not confined to MLB - just heard the possibility of the Crimson Turds possibly offering Rich Rodriguez $3 mil to coach - bet the other SEC coaches and their agents (read: Jimmy Sexton, who represents half of the SEC coaches) are salivating over the prospect of pay raises next year. The lunacy continues.

CL - saw your “plea” on the previous post for my biscuit recipe. If you’re here tonight, respond, and I’ll give it out again. Otherwise, we can talk later. I hate to break up the “hot talk” over the “hot stove league”. 200+ posts in less than 6 hours - things are cooking here like popcorn in an overheated skillet.

By KC

December 6, 2006 11:13 PM | Link to this

Okay, Figgins… yeah. But can someone please tell me what in the hell we would want with Kotchman???

Thorman/Ward would do just fine.

DOB: are there any quality starters available? Any chance we could package Laroche, Giles, and Davies to add a significant piece to the rotation?

By The Ranting Blogger Formerly Known as Billy

December 6, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

DOB got the lock down for local coverage I think….

I also think T. Hudson barring a complete meltdown will be worth more at the trading deadline than now…thats me though.

By KC

December 6, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

Robert: If Tim Hudson looks like the Hudson of old next year… why would we want to trade him? I mean if he pitches like the bonafide ace he’s capable of being… why would we part with him, considering he’ll make only 2 million more in 07 and 08 and Vincent Padilla and Ted friggin’ Lilly?????????

If Tim Hudson looks impressive next year, the Braves should and will keep him. If he’s not impressive, Atlanta will look to unload him, and given the ridiculous contracts being doled out to utterly mediocre pitchers (Padilla, Lilly, Eaton)… his contract shouldn’t be much of a deterrent if he can keep an ERA of under 5.00. I wish I were joking or exaggerating (about the market), but I’m not.

By Soonago

December 6, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thank you so much for all the work you are doing here. It’s really above and beyond, and it really helps us Braves geeks who need our fix.

By N8

December 6, 2006 11:20 PM | Link to this

KC

“My prediction for HoRam next year in Seattle (if he stays healthy):”

“15-9, 3.70 ERA”

In the AL, where he DOESN’T get to face a pitcher EVERY nine AB’s? If healthy, I can agree (to an extent-based on how WELL the Mariners team does), with the 15-9. After all Traschel (or however the HELL you spell it) won a BUNCH of games for the Muts this year. But a 3.70 ERA. Sorry dude. Don’t see it happening. Maybe. But not likely.

By KC

December 6, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this

Correction: meant to say “only 2 million more in 07 and 08 than Vincent Padilla and Ted friggin’ Lilly?????????*

By N8

December 6, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this

DOB

Is it true what Carolina Lady says?

The AJC gives away a piano to the best writer on staff? Neat.

Sorry Carolina Lady, I had too! :)

By KC

December 6, 2006 11:23 PM | Link to this

I second Soonago’s comment.

By cleancutwalrus

December 6, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

I have a feeling that soonago likes The Smashing Pumpkins a lot. Any thoughs on them DOB? I second that thank you though. It’s nice to have realiable info from someone who is on the spot up there. It’s much appreciated.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 6, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

After thinking about Hudson a little bit…can we really afford to trade another starter…I mean who would take his place? I really dont think the Santana from the Angels deal is gonna work…also I dont think someone is gonna deal a young starter for an older one such as hudson…I think more than LaRoach would have to be included in that deal.

By N8

December 6, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this

Soonago

“Thank you so much for all the work you are doing here. It’s really above and beyond, and it really helps us Braves geeks who need our fix.”

Geeks? GEEKS? GEEKS?

Speak for yourself. I’m an “enthusiast”!

Hold on, I gotta go fix the tape on my glasses, so I can see what’s going on with my online “Dungeons and Dragons” tournament.

WOW. It’s amazing, what adding a player with talent, upside at a position we needed help in, while dumping dead weight salary from a position of depth (notice I said depth - not to be confused with “strength” [we have a LOT of mediocre pitchers to choose from]), will do for your mood.

Kinda makes me feel all funny and stuff!

By lojak

December 6, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

Your entire article is based on financial considerations. What the hell is going on with this supposed deal to sell the Braves to the Colorado group. We have been told that the payroll with the new group would not go down, and possibly get larger—which is obviously what the Braves need to compete realistically. Where is that deal, what do we know???

By Tomahawkin

December 6, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

Nuff Respect D.O.B., Luv Ur 411, beats the hell out of listening to turds on ESPN…Lovely

BTW This Cold Weather SUCKS

By TennesseePaul

December 6, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this

DOB: Thanks for the updates and hard work. You’re a good man.

I think part of Giles’ deminished value is related to what Kevin Towers said, there are a lot of second basemen out there. There were more at the start of the season, but there are quite a bit and they are all on par pretty much. Some cheaper than others. Each with strengths and weaknesses. I’d take Giles out of all of them though. On top of the population of 2B, Giles also had a downer year, so that doesn’t help. At any rate I’m excited to see how this all pans out.

As for AJ. I still hope that guy can stick around. Maybe TW and Liberty will figure out what the hell they’re doing and complete the sale or get over it and let a Daddy Warbucks take over -er Arthur Blank. Whatever. The new owner will present the team with the possibility of a better payroll situation. I hope AJ sticks with the Braves. That’s all one can do now I suppose. Hope. Hope. Hope.

GO BRAVES!!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this

Ok, KC, Hudson will be making $13 milllion next year. Where is that money going to come from? Sure Andruw will be gone but considering Hudson will be getting a $6.5 mil raise that will only leave $7 mil left over. Now, the Braves are able to get Figgins or Crisp then maybe, but…. What about Smoltz? What if Smoltz wants to come back next season? The other side of this is what if Hudson doesn’t have that spectacular season. Then what? The Braves are stuck paying $13 mil to a guy with a near 4.00 ERA and who can barely get out of the 5th inning. Yeah, he probably will bounce back this year but the Braves don’t have the payroll flexibility to take that risk. If the Yanks offered either Cano or Cabrerra for Hudson (Which they just might do. Lilly just signed with the Cubs leaving only Barry Zito available and right now he looks to be headed to either the Mets or the Rangers.), the Braves would be crazy not to take that. I understand what you are saying but one subpar year is just that but two subpar years seems to be a trend. And, again, even if he pitches lights out, can the Braves afford to pay him $13 mil and not hurt the rest of the team?

By Tomahawkin

December 6, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this

Aight Yooz guys, we have enough relievers…

Boyer in the Seventh Soriano in da Eight And Bob Sticky Wickman Closing Sounds Sick…

Now I won’t fear of going to the Blowpen…Thus I won’t be throwing my remote no more… John S….Wanna Cut Payroll? Simple Cut Reeksma, and get us a leadoff hitter, Pronto…

Go Braves!

By bruce

December 6, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this

Braves sit says at 11:27pm tonight the HoRam trade is on hold… wow!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

I just read where the Rockies offered the Angels Todd Helton for Figgins, Kotchman, and a pitcher. The Angels turned it down because of Helton’s salary, age, and health concerns. I have a feeling JS is all over this. LaRoche for Figgins and Kotchman is a great deal. I say the Braves throw in Orr or Langerhans and get this done tonight. Supposedly five teams were interested in LaRoche. I heard about the Pirates, O’s, and Angels. I wonder who the other two are.

By bruce

December 6, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

oops sorry, meant to say Braves website says Horam trade on hold… headline says that but the article does not indicate any particular new problem… mentions that the trade will likely be announced Thursday am, some thought is that Mariners have to finish reviewing HoRam’s medical records… but still… to say in the headline that the deal is on hold seems like news to me.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 6, 2006 11:46 PM | Link to this

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061206&contentid=1752752&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

FYI

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 6, 2006 11:46 PM | Link to this

It is only on hold because the Mariners’ team doctor has to sign on it. The deal is done!

By Tomahawkin

December 6, 2006 11:46 PM | Link to this

If the mediocre Ted Lilly is making close to 10 million next year, I’d take Hudson anyday, although I expect a 20 game winner…

As for the Owner Thing, I’d just assume just from the simple fact that Arthur Blank doesn’t read the ajc…Especially from the treatment that he gets on the Birdbabe…But Quits BS-ing and buy the team, hell Vince McMahon, or anyone for that matter…Please!!!

By Maine Braves fan

December 6, 2006 11:47 PM | Link to this

I would try to trade laroche and giles to the angels for figgins and kotchman. I think this would help out our team and I would feel confident with that team. I do think we are far from being done. We need that last trade to make everything better. I thnik we are all done trading our pitchers. So trade Lasuck and get figgins in here.

By Kyle

December 6, 2006 11:48 PM | Link to this

ok where do i begin. horacio for soriano is a steal. the kid can bring it and i still dont believe in horacio. now lets get to laroache. he had a great second half but that is about all he has done in atlanta. do you really think he is going to become an upper class first baseman? to get the lefty from the pirates would be wonderful because then we could match up to the left handed monsters in the nl east like delgado and ryan howard. please dont trade for baldelli. he cant stay healthy and even when he is he is average at best. he has no power, little speed, and strikes out too much and we have enough strikeout people. giles will be moved but there are not many more teams looking for second basemen. i think our most intersting piece is tim hudson. we could move him for a couple of young positon players and then spin giles off for a starter to replace him and save some money.

By A.J.

December 6, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

DOB - Just how dead are the Gonzalez trade talks?

Are they, “Littlefield, you are being a baby so I’m gonna show you that I’m in control so you will act right later” dead?

Or is it, “Littlefield, if you weren’t such a douchebag you’d be getting a good first baseman, but instead you can take you closer and stuff it” dead.

In other words, try again after the meetings-dead or DEAD-dead?

By ArkyTech

December 6, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

JS - get Figgins!

By TN-MAN

December 6, 2006 11:50 PM | Link to this

Also accoding to one Braves source the team could be ready to make a “big trade” tomorrow. What could it be?Andruw?

By Jared

December 6, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this

So, the LaRoche for Gonzalez thing is 100% done, finished, won’t happen? I kind of hoped to have him, though keeping LaRoche is nice.

I really think the Braves should just keep Adam now. Trading him for a package where the center piece is Figgins doesn’t seem all that bright if you could have gotten Gonzalez, who is a pitcher, which is what the Braves need.

By N8

December 6, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this

Bruce

RELAX. That story is saying nothing more or less than DOB’s 10:56 post said. Seattle’s medical people were flying cross country and hadn’t “reviewed” HoRam’s medical records yet.

Unless they see “somthing” the Braves didn’t see. I doubt this deal will fall through.

By Tomahawkin

December 6, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this

Gawd, I was at da cubs boards, and a lot of them are happy that they got hustled into overpaying Ted Lilly 40 Million, god they’re dumb…

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 6, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this

bruce,

Thats not true if you would read the article you’ll find that it says the same thing DOB says….waiting for medical clearance from Seattle doc’s who were on a flight back home.

Going back to Ranting mode

Its really annoying when poeple write something about an article they supposedly read but misinterpt it and post something that is misleading.

By The Grinch

December 6, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this

OK, Y’all, I think it’s time for a moment of group reflection. How many people as recently as yesterday were crying out about JS “sitting on his hands, letting the whole market pass him by, gloom, doom, etc.” Now, we suddenly have a kick-a* bullpen and only gave up someone who’ll have a 9-15, 7.03 for the M’s next year (love ya, KC) and the prospect of getting at least one more (if not two or three) of the players everyone was clammoring for earlier. And all we’d be really giving up is LaRoche, whom half of you don’t like anyway (Giles, Ramirez, etc. were essentially dead weight in our situation). JS weathered the storm, and looks like he’s fleecing folks left and right like he did last year getting Wickman for…who? (get the point?) Everyone say it with me now, “WE’RE SORRY MR. SCHUERHOLZ; YOU’RE THE MAN AFTER ALL AND WERE ALL ALONG…”

By A.J.

December 6, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this

I have always been big on Gonzalez, he was on the wishlist for the deadline last season.

Now DOB had me all excited.

I like LaRoche, but I was already getting attatched to Gonzalez. In addition to Soriano.

Hopefully this is just a power play by us, not actual dead talks.

By TN-MAN

December 6, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

The site also says the Braves could be ready to make a “big trade” tomorrow. Any thoughts of what it maybe? Andruw to the Dodgers seems possible.

By Tomahawkin

December 6, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

How da hell can you bash LaRoche, after his second half, I wasn’t a fan of his at first, but he was one of our more consistant hitters in the second-half…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 7, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this

One of two things will happen with the Gonzales thing. Either Littlefield will see that the Angles or someone else is willing to give the Braves a steal and will brighten up and quit bsing about this or he will do what he has often did and wind up with nothing. Apparently, Littlefield is notorious for this kind of crap, which why the Pirates have a crappy team and guys can’t wait to leave. I mean hell look at how Lloyd McClendon was treated. I say forget the Pirates. The Braves should contact the Angles and Red Sox and see who is willing to give the best deal.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this

Man I was wondering what happend to all the regualars…bruce your post did not show up in time for me to edit my comments…I stnad behind them sitll but glad you noticed your mistake.

By Maine Braves fan

December 7, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

I did read about the big deal they have for tommorrow and I am interested in what the deal is? and who is going?

By Lew

December 7, 2006 12:08 AM | Link to this

No Coco Crisp-We don’t want the Cereal Guy. He is injured more than Chipper and Horacio combined and he can’t hit RHP. He doesn’t steal as much as you think he does, either. Let Diaz play. Let tThorman platoon with him. Get Figgins and let him lead off. Enough of this foolish talk. No Coco. Besides, what is BC gonna call him-Crispy? Gahhh.

By Wayne

December 7, 2006 12:09 AM | Link to this

“Late Wednesday evening, another Braves source indicated that the club could be ready to make a big trade on Thursday. There still hasn’t been much of a market for second baseman Marcus Giles, and it’s almost certain the club won’t be trading Hudson.”

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061206&contentid=1752752&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this

Tomahawkin,

Not too many people are bashing LaRoach…at least not from what I see. The deal probaly is the LaRoach or Giles deal..what ever thats gonna be. How do you all rate this move on a scale 1-10? Seems like we were hurting for a deal so bad this seems like a blockbuster to us..lol. I think its a fair deal. I like H. Ramirez thought he had qaulity stuff…but my opinion, once agian, is on the minority on this one I guess.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 7, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this

All I will say is this, if the Dodgers are willing to part with Looney, Billingsley and Kemp for Andruw the Braves would be fools not to take it. The Braves still would be a contender and one with some payroll flexibility to add on if necessary either before the season starts or afterward. ESPN just reported that Dodgers need a corner OF with power but are just winding up empty and would have to settle for some like Luis Gonzales, which Tim K. didn’t make sound like that was exactly what the Dodgers wanted to do. I say Andruw is on their radar. The Dodgers like the Yankees are beginning to be painted into a corner. Right now the Giants and Padres are better than the Dodgers. And a wildcard would be tough with everyone in the NL East except for the Nats better than the Dodgers and the Cubs, Astros, Cardinals, Reds, and even Brewers giving them a run in the Central. Same problem with the Yanks. As it stands right now, the Red Sox have to be the favorites to win the AL East and the Jays aren’t far off. JS needs to use this to his advantage and make Colletti and Cashman aware of this. VERY AWARE!

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 7, 2006 12:16 AM | Link to this

The trouble with John Schuerholz’s sudden stroke of “genius” is that it’s a couple of years too late—he could have just as easily made moves like these last season, or the season before!…

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 7, 2006 12:20 AM | Link to this

I just spent 20 minutes crafting an incredible post - no need to question me on this - just believe me - and realized when I clicked post, for some reason, my name and email wasn’t filled out - I hate this format!!

Anyhow, here is what I said, not that anyone gives a damn.

Grinch is a cool dude - would love to hang out with him, drink some beers, even though he is a leg humping Bulldog. I think we would have a large time.

Kwitchurbichin over losing ‘Druw next year. If he stays, he will have an incredible year, and that can only help us. If he is traded, rest assured JS will extract his pound of flesh, etc from any team that gets him. Rest assured, with J.D. Screw getting $14mil a year for 5 years, ‘Druw will get A-Rod type money for the next 5 - 6 years. Some teams will pay him the king’s ransom - Bora$$ will guarantee that. Hate to lose him, but hopefully, he will don the Braves cap when he goes into the HOF, which he will surely do someday.

Glavine - hated that we lost him. Good guy, great competitor. But, if no offer was made, there had to be a good reason. I suspect that there were talks, and JS felt the price was too high, not to mention the no trade clause issue. I hope Tommy gets 300 (but not against us, in Atlanta), and hope he goes into the HOF with a Braves cap. But, no guarantee he will get in just because he won 300. Just ask Don Sutton - took him years to get in, and that was by the skin of his teeth. By the way, Don, we’ll miss you next year on Braves broadcasts. I thought you got a raw deal, always enjoyed your commentary/calling of games. A Panhandle boy done good - I’m one too (though I haven’t made the $$ you have)

I think our pitching is set for next year, with or without this Gonzalez deal. If we get him, then hopefully our team ERA will be 2.14, instead of 4.2. With, or without Adam, surely we can score 3-4 runs per game, on average. I hate to lose Adam - he really stepped up this year, his first without significant platooning. Tore up RHP, and held his own against LHP. Would love to see him here next year, but if we can get the “Stud” Gonzalez is supposed to be, well, that’s baseball.

Go Scalp ‘Em Braves in 2007!!

P.S. I’m all in favor of bringing back “Nock-A-Homa” and his centerfield teepee - I miss his homer dance - anybody else agree or disagree??

By Tomahawkin

December 7, 2006 12:21 AM | Link to this

Billy I quote… “Seems like we were hurting for a deal so bad this seems like a blockbuster to us..lol”

Yeah we are…Haven’t seen a big one since the Hudson Deal in 04…

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 7, 2006 12:25 AM | Link to this

Hello all…

Back when I was attending die Schule, I always thought that bein’ good at spellin’ was for sissies! Maybe that’s because I couldn’t spell cat, but I’ve changed my mind! How one spells can be important … like some folks use uncuth and you never can be sure if they’re being insulting or just describing something with which they’re unfamiliar … however, there’s not too much question when they spell it uncouth … “Bubba O’Brien” whoever you are, one of your posts, a day or so back … and you can rest assured that I’m familiar with such posts … that one was as uncuth, or uncouth, as they come … take your choice!

It’s usually best to leave the attempts at vulgar humor to the adroit … that, or go back to die Schule for additional training.

Thinking of die Schule reminds me of a story told by my Kindergarten teacher and family friend … sometime after she retired. She had recently been honored at a Teacher’s Convention in New York City and while there, a group of them went to a large, well known supperclub … a new experience for this lady who seldom ventured far from home.

After a while, she had to go the Ladies’ Room … and asked the waitress to tell her where it was. The helpful waitress, who called it the “Johnnie”, evidently recognized that she was a bit nervous and volunteered to go with her; cheerfully escorting her to the restroom and back; indulging in small talk throughout.

Later in the evening, they were all surprised and she was greatly embarrassed when the “waitress” appeared on stage as the star of the Female Impersonators’ show being featured at the Club.

Bubba, you may not recognize it, but that’s vulgar humor … at least I thought it was funny when she was blushing and telling it to Mama. It’s also another story about uncouth and spelling … the waitress should have gone to the “John”.

Apologies too, to David O’B … two non-baseball tales … but I could claim that this really is related to Braves baseball … for the teacher was a lifelong Crackers and Braves fan of the first order … though she preferred the Opera to the Opry.

With all the impersonators we’ve had roaming the streets of the neighborhood … it’s sometimes difficult distinguishing the residents from the interlopers, even when the lights are turned up high.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 12:27 AM | Link to this

DEAL’s not going to be announced until tomorrow, and neither team will even acknowledge it’s done. But it is, I’ve had multiple people tell me. Mariners doctor just needed to sign off, and he was flying until early evening. They probably just said, let’s announce this tomorrow….

Someone earlier wrote: “MLB.com reported that Soriano has the tools to be a starter and he has indicated that he would like to be in that role.”

No, he stunk as a starter in his debut season, 0-3 in 8 starts. Moved to bullpen and has been absolutely dominant. Check his relief stats (this stuff’s in my story posted on our site). Just amazing numbers:

After going 0-3 in eight starts in 2002, he was converted to the bullpen _ to the regret of Seattle opponents. As a reliever, Soriano has a 2.17 ERA and .197 opponents’ average in 108 relief appearances, with 151 strikeouts and 37 walks in 128-2/3 innings….

Braves aren’t trading Chuck James, probably not trading Hudson, and I’d be shocked if they trade Andruw. Folks, just get ready for Andruw to have a huge year and then walk. Nothing so bad about that. Braves will get another 45-50 homers, 120 RBIs and dozens of great catches, then a couple draft picks as compensation, unless Liberty Media steps in and boosts the payroll to about $100 mill (not likely) or Schuerholz poisons Boras’ coffee (possible).

OK, kidding there.

By crimedogrules

December 7, 2006 12:27 AM | Link to this

Robert, how are the Giants better than the Dodgers? I think they have made a lot of desperate moves.

Dodgers have a lot of talent I agree but having AJ on his contract year sounds like the kind of stuff World Series runs are made of. I says keep him as long as we can.

We were top 3 in every offensive category, its about pitching we just sealed up the 8th. 29 blown saves last year, I’m predicting an eighth of that this year.

The streak starts again - I’m calling it now.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:28 AM | Link to this

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/offbase/061206

“yet we still pretend fans are sitting around a pickle barrel discussing seed prices and Moose Skowron’s batting average”

Sound familar? I dont think this guy has a clue or at least has yet to come by our…ahem… DOB’s blog.

“Reporters hate them because instead of being home with your family during the holiday season, you spend 14 to 18 hours a day working hotel lobbies like an NBA groupie, searching desperately for questionable trade rumors while frantically worried that your competitors are scooping you on the Rule V draft pick.”

DOB What’s it like being a NBA Groupie”?

And this ones the best….LOL

“Fans hate them because their favorite team is either: (a) not signing a coveted free agent; or worse (b) signing a coveted free agent for so much money that he’s bound to be a financial drain on the team for years to come (hello, Russ Ortiz).”

By flbravesgirl

December 7, 2006 12:29 AM | Link to this

See, I knew there’d be something to talk about by tonight! Soriano sounds promising. I don’t dislike Horam but had given up on him ever staying healthy so this doesn’t break my heart. Still not crazy about the idea of trading LaRoche. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see if there’s any truth to any of these rumors.

Don’t get too excited over Baldelli. He seems to be a good guy and probably would be a good player but he is always hurt. I feel bad for him. It’s like he has a jinx on his health.

By Tomahawkin

December 7, 2006 12:32 AM | Link to this

Nock-A-Homa…No way, I think they already went too far wit that stupid Drum, That thing was annoying, Just keep the Sir-Mix-Alot Cover Homerun music as well as the loud Foghore, I like to Imitate that sound when I watch games, wit Dese bandwagon cardinal fans up here…

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this

Whats this about Sutton leaving…link for info please..

By TN-MAN

December 7, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this

DOB- What do you make of the Braves website acknowledgement of a “big trade” possibility tomorrow? Also, heard anything new on the Braves/Angels trade talks?

By Tomahawkin

December 7, 2006 12:38 AM | Link to this

I will miss Ho-Ram coming out to dat “California Love” (Had the Ted Jumpin…)

No way do we need to get Rid of Chuck James… “He’s one of the baddest muthafuckas of all time. I’m one of the richest and best lookin muddaf;cckas you ever did see…….”

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

Why would the Dodgers be P.O.’d at Boras about Drew? They saved 33 mil for someone who might actually be worth it instead. They ought to send him (Boras) a fruit basket with a thoughtful card.

Scalp ‘em, much obliged. Beer and football make up entirely too much of my life (they’re the main reasons I haven’t finished the Great American Novel yet). Most of my friendly rivalries are with fans of other pro teams, but I still prefer college. Got a few friends for Tennessee, a couple for South Carolina and Clemson, one Gator (I hate him to the very core of my being, other than that he’s a friend), etc. (no Tech fans, that would be insurmountable). What I do not have are friends who like Auburn, which is a shame ‘cause they’re my favorite rivalry. I always got some pig cookin’ and plenty of frosty ones flowin’ during the big Saturdays. If you can stand to be in a Dawg den you’re more than welcome; you’ll have to bring your own back-up, though, if you want it. I expect next years UGA-AU game’s gonna be a dandy (they always are).

Bravo nam, you watch that Hawks game tonight? They played with a back-up point guard, no center (Z was suspended) and were down 17 points on the road going into the 4th and still pulled it out. I like this team.

By Mills

December 7, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

Braves Rule!!! Time Warner Blows!!!!

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

Wow,

The NL East has to be consdiered a tough division right now…The high priced Met’s, The rugged Phil’s, Youthfull Marlins, rag-tag Braves, and the whipping post Nationals.

I dont see another division shapping up like ours next year…

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

Before I take my tired butt out the door, I’m responding to the blogger who asked about Kotchman’s last couple years in minors (why I spent 10 minutes looking this up at 12:40 a.m. in a nearly empty press room, I don’t know. I guess because the blog denizens are good people).

In 2005 at Triple-A Salt Lake, he hit .289 with 10 homers and 58 RBIs, 43 walks and 40 K, for a .372 OBP and .441 slugging.

In 2004 he raked. He shredded. Gap hitter, big time.

That year at Double-A Arkansas (Hillbilly, you go check him out?) Kotchman hit .368 with 11 doubles, three homers, 18 RBIs and a .438 OBP in 28 games, then at Triple-A Salt Lake hit .372 with 22 doubles, five homers, 38 RBIs and a .981 OPS in 49 games.

Then last year he apparently got the longest case of mono in the history of civilization.

OK, I’m out

By Tomahawkin

December 7, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this

Aight, I’m bout to jet…Gotta go watch some old Married Wit Children

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 7, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this

DOB - article over on braves.com says “another Braves source indicated that the club could be ready to make a big trade on Thursday.” the article then goes on to rule out giles, hudson and andruw…

is it safe to assume that this is laroche? do you see him staying or being traded? and if traded, where?

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 12:49 AM | Link to this

Billy, just saw your post with the stuff from Page 2. He got it about right, I tell you. These meetings suck.

Now, I’m really out. Talk to you in the morning.

By Tyronius "Junebug" Biggumms

December 7, 2006 12:49 AM | Link to this

fo sho fo sho fo sho tru dis foshizzle dizzle cracker flat trippin nom mean???
beeyatch

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:54 AM | Link to this

The Grinch,

that was funny about LA and Borris…the card joke was a great touch.

By dfree

December 7, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this

why not trade renteria, i mean he had an allright year, we could get younger with escobar, i mean were going to trade him eventually anyway so… saeve 6 mil and keep laroache, or trade him, what the hell, what if last year never happens again, his value is through the roof, me thinks that js doesnt think he will repeat in 07.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 7, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this

How about this for a trade. A three way between the Dodgers, Angles, and Braves. Players involved: LaRoche, Giles, Kotchman, Figgins, Loney,Eric Abyar, and Penny. The Dodgers get Giles and Kotchman. This allows them to move Garicapara to LF and Kent from 2B to 1B. He played there in the playoffs. Acquiring Giles will be cheaper than getting Luis Gonzales and Garicapara was mentioned for the OF last year. The Dodgers will also get Erick Aybar from the Angles. Aybar could step in and play 3B which would allow Betemit to be the utility man. The Angles get Penny and LaRoche. Penny strengthens the Angels roation even more than it already is and gives them some flexibility in trading Kelvim Escobar or Erwin Santana. Possibly to the Devil Rays for Jorge Cantu. LaRoche gives them the power hitting 1B they covet. The Braves get Loney and Figgins. Loney replaces LaRoche at 1st and Figgins becomes the new 2B.

What are the benefits of this deal? The Dodgers get a solid 2B in Giles and save some wear and tear on Jeff Kent. Moving Garciapara to LF gives them the corner OF they want at a cheaper price and Giles is less risky than Luis Gonzales who is 40. Besides the Dodgers can still make a run at Andruw next season, let Giles walk, and move Kent back to 2B. The Dodgers also get Aybar is one of the Angels most prized prospects which could allow them to trade Andy LaRoche who could net a nice little return.

The Angles get LaRoche, whom the covet. As I stated earlier, the Angels solidiy their rotation even more with Penny and allows them to explore another trade using Escobar or Santana.

The Braves get Loney who has HUGE upside and could be the future 1B or LF. Figgins gives them the leadoff hitter they need and want no matter what BC and JS say.

The deal would be a bit complicated but could get done.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 7, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this

FlBravesGirl - I agree with you - we don’t need to get too excited over Baldelli. Don’t get me wrong - I love Italian (women). As baseball players, outside of the Yankee Clipper, and Mike Pizza, what have they contributed (waiting to get bashed over this comment, from those pointing out mundane players over the years). I’m not a Boot-A-Phobe, Med-O-Phobe, or Nose-A-Phobe - I’m not convinced this guy is all that he may claim to be, and all that he can be - only time, trades, and faith will tell.

I also share your ambivalsnce about LaRoche for Gonzalez - gees, sounds like we are trading a bug for speedy. Guess it will all work out in the wash.

As far as looking at FA signings, and trades so far, I don’t fear the Mutts, I don’t fear the Sewer “Swillies”, I don’t fear the Fish, but, out of our division, I do fear the Bums in LA. Say what you will, but they have let the dregs go (e.g. J.D. Screw), and have signed some righteous talent for the coming year. I think Grady Little is a good manager. Not worried about the “Bochy Ball” Giants, don’t think the Pads will have it this year, and the snakes in Arizona have another ho-hum year. Our challenge next yaar, out of division, will come from the Bums, the Cards or the Cubbies (yes, you heard it here first). We will win the (B)east next year. Won’t be easy, but the Braves will be very good.

By Tomahawkin

December 7, 2006 01:13 AM | Link to this

Trading Renteria, Please!!! Free Agent Julio Lugo is gonna command 10 million per year…Which would you rather take Paying Renteria 6 million per year, or overpaying Someone like Lugo (Whom the braves coveted in years past)

BTW Renteria had a great year, considering all the numbing injuries he played through, beats paying Furcal 12+ million

By Tomahawkin

December 7, 2006 01:17 AM | Link to this

Scalp Em Glad To see that I’m not the only one calling him J.D. Screw, Hopefully there are red sox fans who read our jitter…And will refer to him as the same…

By crimedogrules

December 7, 2006 01:19 AM | Link to this

I love the offseason almost as much as the regular year.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 01:23 AM | Link to this

Scalp, you forgot Lasagne, Baked Ziti, pepperoni, Lamborghini and Ferrari. And most importantly, the Sopranos (although that’s really a California creation, but imagine if Tony greeted people with “What’s up, duuu—de, instead of Howyadoin’?) Not.

FBG, glad to hear your heart isn’t broken. Do you have anything against green guys? :-)

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 7, 2006 01:25 AM | Link to this

Grinch - you and me are right on ‘bout pork - only dispute is about which of us can cook it better - will meet you anytime, anywhere, to confirm that my pork butt can kick your pork butt anywhere, anytime -shucks, I use smoke to flavor mine, while you Dawgs just lift yo leg and pee on the fire to keep the flame down - no kidding Dawg - you want to get together next year at Sanford next year for eats, drinks, etc. let me know - would enjoy hanging out before the game, watching the Crimson Turds gettintg their butts kicked on the satellite TV,in advance of us winning the game (this year’s bravado completely forgotten) etc. Let me know and we’ll set up a Dawg Pound vs. a Tiger Thrash before the game - all in fun, and lots of drinking. Good guys, pretty ladies, etc. We’ll have a good time, enjoyed by all, until we kick your keesters - then, we’ll don GA tee-shirts as we sneak out of the stadium, to avoid the wrath and abuse wreaked upon us by the angry Dawg-Pound.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 7, 2006 01:47 AM | Link to this

Tomahawkin - he is not only “J.D. “I’m Gonna Dr(scr)ew you, through my agent, Scott Bor-A$$, he is also the most over paid whiner, oft injured, p*** in the game (aplogies to the ladies here on the blog - but can’t help it). The guy comes to Atlanta, after God knows how many years of under-performance with other teams - JS takes a chance on him - and he does well for the Braves for on lousy season - then haulsass. Screw him and the ship he rode in on. I hope he pulls his hamstring in the first game, and sits his whiny butt out the rest of the year. He’ll get his money, but will be recognized, once again, as a high priced over paid, FA.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 01:47 AM | Link to this

Dawg pee is an underrated marinade, my friend. It really brings out the flavor of the pork. As for smoke, you like mesquite, hickory, or some kind of special secret? Hell, we’ll save that for the time in question. And pretty ladies are in abundance here, you’ll be shocked and amazed coming from Alabama. :-) As for the keister kicking, all I got to say is 37-15. You ain’t got squat to answer ‘till next time, brother. Voton1066@yahoo.com.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 7, 2006 02:10 AM | Link to this

Grinch:

You will be shocked and amazed by my wife of 26 years. She is still a “looker”. No doubt, the best looking ladies in all the land can be found at any SEC campus - whether current students, or 20 to 30 year graduates.

As for marinades, I’ll pass on the dog p**, and go for the dry rub of my spices. I’ll email you tomorrow. We’ll talk later, and get together at some point. Looking forward to us hoisting a beer to our college rivalry, all in good fun, and you hoisting your leg, in the true Dawg spirit. No apologies or excuses for this year. You dawgs humped our leg hard - look forward to next year. I’m out for tonight - my pretty wife awaits my arrival in bed, so that she can turn her back to me as I arrive in my beer-stinking state. Go Braves, and War Damned Eagle, ya’ll

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 02:28 AM | Link to this

Fair enough. On the go Braves part, anyway. Great show on Discovery Times about outlaws for anyone who’s still up.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 7, 2006 02:28 AM | Link to this

Grinch, that Turkey Buzzard sounds like a pretty nice fellow … JS looks like he still knows what he doing.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 02:46 AM | Link to this

Bob, you’re not the Bill Murray Bob in “What about Bob,” are you? If you’re a former journalist, then I’ll honnor your opinion. Yeah, folks can’t be accountable for the schools they represent (lord knows, you went to Tech if I’m not mistaken, yet you’re not quite the devil himself). And Scalp was right, SEC girls are lovely everywhere they sprout up; it’s the Northeastern schools/area that suffer so. When your cheerleaders have more facial hair than you do, you might live in the NE. I know; I lived in NY for 9 years as a kid. While there are some good looking women, they’re so few and far between they seem disproportionately hot and people fight over them with unusual levels of violence. Why this state exists, I do not know yet it is so. Hang on, dogs barking outside. Speaking of potential violence…

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 02:49 AM | Link to this

Morning Blog cant sleep. I was looking over some stuff..and found this….DOB (not mentioned specifically) gets blamed for destroying the Gonzo deal.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 02:52 AM | Link to this

opps http://buccoblog.mlblogs.com/myweblog/2006/12/quickupdate_on.html

sorry

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 02:55 AM | Link to this

This ones funny too

http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/06/the-bad-deal/

They dont like Horacio very much…I actully feel bad for the guy…He’s going to a town who thinks he is absoulute garbage.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 03:24 AM | Link to this

Billy, just looked at both articles. It’s funny that a newspaper and fan base in Seattle has a more realistic view of Horacio than our own AJC blog. They know just exactly how bad the M’s just screwed up, and what a mediocre pitcher they’re getting. But then, they also said “With Tim Hudson now off the table, what are we gonna do for real starting pitching?” Or something like that. They were coveting Tim Hudson. That’s like saying “Oh, man, Jenine Garafalo’s got a new boyfriend; now what am I supposed to do?” The Mariners must really suck. However, they seemed to be happy to unload Soriano because they universally believe his arm’s about to explode, which doesn’t sound too good to me. ‘night, all. FBG, you’re forgiven for ignoring me again. :-)

By berigan

December 7, 2006 04:00 AM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best) You should be a GM for somebody! ;) I like the talk about LaRoche to either the Sox or Yankees. (Robert’s that is, no rumors folks!) It would make sense, especially for the Yankees. Though, do we really want to help the evil empire? As for the 3 way, well, it is an interesting thought, but it seems don’t swing them like they used to, do they???

By Matt

December 7, 2006 04:03 AM | Link to this

Unfortuantley, pretty much what is happening to the Braves is what happened in Kansas City when J.S. left to come here. They slashed payroll majorly, kept about two or three major stars and stunk it up. The only difference is that the Braves know how to draft well and will be able to keep at least a halfway respectable team on the field for quite a few more years. The payroll issue is going to stink this season. But you figure that Andruw’s gone after next season, so that’s $13.5m freed up. I would expect that Hampton goes in a trade as well next off-season, so another $9m or so. Maybe same on Hampton. Smoltz, Chipper, and Wickman all might retire after the season, depending on how the season goes. Edgar is a FA after this season, and I will bet the Braves let him walk since they probably won’t be able to afford him. That frees up another $6m. So, in all, the Braves will have around $28-$30m to play with next off-season. That’s nearly half of the above stated money is. What the Braves should do is get the young players into long-term contracts, even if they end up having to pay a little extra to keep them in Atlanta. Get Davies, Francoeur, James, LaRoche, Soriano, Langerhans, Johnson, Aybar, Prado, Pena, and any others that I can’t think of into four or five year contracts. This will at least provide a stable base of players for the future. By the way, am I completely crazy in thinking that it would be a nice dog-and-pony act to at least offer Sammy Sosa a minimum major leauge contract for him to hit his 600th homer in a Braves uni? It would sort of harken back to the times of crazy entertainment with Ted Turner…=D

By Joe

December 7, 2006 04:39 AM | Link to this

I would love to wake up tommrow seeing Andrew traded to the dodgers for lets say Broxton, Kemp, and maybe brad penny but i dont expect it to happen. I was hoping the Gonzo deal would go through because I think he would be a nice closer for us in years to come. I think the Braves will move LaRoche because I think Salty will switch over to first in 08 that is why Adam is tradeable. I expect the braves to trade Adam for chone and kotchman.

As far as Giles, who knows maybe the braves will keep them if they cant get good value for him, but I expect they should be able to get something for him.

By John

December 7, 2006 05:24 AM | Link to this

I would honestly be surprised to see LaRoche traded. I read a report on the Pittsburgh Gazette, and, of course there are 2 sides to every story, but looks like Pitt was all but begging for LaRoche, but JS balked and then pulled the trigger with the M’s. I think JS didn’t want to trade LaRoche for Williams straight up, and I really can’t blame him. LaRoche is an affordable left with tremendous upside. Why would you trade him? Sure, Williams is awesome out of the pen, but for all we know, there may be a better deal including he and possibly Giles (can only hope).

By NCBravesFan

December 7, 2006 07:09 AM | Link to this

DOB Perhaps off topc to where we are today, but with the payroll constraints in place and some of those salaries mentioned above spiking in 2008 … do you have any sense for what the Braves’ plan for the pitching staff in two years?

By Mitchie-san

December 7, 2006 07:17 AM | Link to this

Ohayo gozaimasu everyone…. Wow, lots talk about…. first, we got away with murder on the Soriano deal. I have always liked HoRam, but it was time to move on. Now I would still like to see Laroche get moved sometime soon.

By JasonInMaine

December 7, 2006 07:23 AM | Link to this

I really thought the Braves would have made more moves. It stinks that the Phils got Garcia. They are building a pretty good team as well.

By Mitchie-san

December 7, 2006 07:24 AM | Link to this

Well let me rephrase that, I dont really want Laroche to go anywhere, but I know it would be for the better. With all the teams looking at him, we have to do someting. This year could have been a fluke and he may not be as good next year. Sell while the stock is high.

By Kevin C

December 7, 2006 07:32 AM | Link to this

DOB—after reading both sides of the LaRoche deal, I still would like the trade with the Pirates, hard throwing lefties are a rarity. Since Adam is staying for now why not Edgar? Good player and solid citizen who makes a decent salary, plug Pena in for defense and bat him 8th. Would the Astros be interested?

By Kay

December 7, 2006 07:55 AM | Link to this

I can see it now. The braves trade the best 1st baseman we have since McGriff to someone for fill in players and then the sale goes through and we have payroll flexibility again but without our own players who we love. This is just sick.

I blame this all on MLB and the inability to stand pat and say, no more corporate owners for tax free gain. Sell to an owner and get it done fast. This sell is tearing this team apart.

This team as it sits now is solid on hitting. Why can we never have pitching and hitting. Its either one or the other. Im sick of penny pinching. We pay good money to see these games. The Braves owners should continue to put a winning team on the field for our money.

By Voice of Reason

December 7, 2006 08:05 AM | Link to this

*On Tuesday night, Jones’ agent, Scott Boras, indicated there was “new information” regarding his client. This hinted that the Braves were ready to approach the Gold Glove outfielder about a potential deal that couldn’t be completed without him waiving the no-trade clause he’s earned by compiling 10 years of Major League service time and being with the same team for five consecutive years.

When asked about Boras’ comment, Schuerholz’s response wasn’t surprising.

“I don’t really care what he says,” Schuerholz said.* Source: mlb.com.

Any love lost there? That’s what I like about homeboy - short and to the point. Classic…

By DHD

December 7, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this

“the braves trade the best 1st baseman we have since McGriff”

Galarraga?

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 08:09 AM | Link to this

KC,

Zito per 162 games:

15-9, 219 IP, 3.55 ERA (about 27 percent better than league average), 167 K, 85 BB, 22 HR, 188 H

Schmidt per 162 games:

13-9, 215 IP, 3.91 ERA (about 10 percent better than league average), 190 K, 84 BB, 19 HR, 198 H

Gee, it’s pretty close. The advantage with Zito is he’s younger and has thrown at least 213 innings every full season of his career. Schmidt is more of a power pitcher and has a better chance to give you a Cy Young type season but has more of an injury history and may have few good seasons in him. But Zito is consistently good and is probably a better long-term investment.

By dadgum

December 7, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this

It appears that the Braves and Angels are about to pull the trigger according to MLB.com. Figgins will be a perfect fit for sure and Kotchman will mean we don’t have to play Thorman as a starter right away. Big plus. If this goes down JS has stolen this winter meetings.

Again I would never have traded LaRoche for Gonzalez straight up. Not this year. The Angels deal makes sense though so I feel it will get done and apparently the ones in the know do as well. Or at least are projecting as such.

By Salty

December 7, 2006 08:18 AM | Link to this

KC We’re running out of pitchers to support!

By Bruce

December 7, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this

Billy Thanks for responding about the inappropriate headline on the braves site last night around 11:30…Thought I would respond to your rant, (your word, not my characterization).

I did read the Braves website article, contrary to your allegations, as my second post at 11:45pm does indicate. I do not believe I misinterpreted it, I simply stated what it said, maybe you noticed it too. I believe my only interpretation was the word “wow”. (your rant is undeserved) My correction was only to correct mis-typed “sit” to “site”, not an adjustment in content or intent with my comments. I stand by my comments and maybe give the Braves site some slack for over-stating the case in the headline.

At the time I thought (but did not write) maybe Seattle docs had some breaking news leaked… seemed like appropriate timing with west coast time zone. If that turns out to be true this morning, read it here first.

The title now is much more appropriate/accurate for us speculators than it was… it now says “Braves close to deal with Mariners”, which is way different than the deal being on hold, so maybe their perspective changed or someone noticed that the title was misleading. Bruce

By Mitchie-san

December 7, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this

Preachin to the choir, Kay. I feel the same way. I am just gald that we have had enough depth (and Luck) to keep competitive.

By KC

December 7, 2006 08:26 AM | Link to this

Robert: “Ok, KC, Hudson will be making $13 million next year. Where is that money going to come from? Sure Andruw will be gone but considering Hudson will be getting a $6.5 mil raise that will only leave $7 mil left over. Now, the Braves are able to get Figgins or Crisp then maybe, but…. What about Smoltz? What if Smoltz wants to come back next season?”

IF Tim Hudson bounces back and looks like the Hudson of old next season… it would be crazy to trade him. Where’s the money going to come from? Wherever it needs to come from. If they have to, the Braves will make room to pay Hudson in 08’… again, provided he bounces back and looks sharp in 07’. The Braves have always made it a priority to keep their great starting pitchers.

I’m sure you vividly remember the Braves shipping David Justice to Cleveland to clear salary room for Glavine and Maddux. If Hudson earns that (“great”) label again next season, the Braves won’t part with him. And, as you pointed out, if A.Jones leaves… it really won’t be all that difficult to find the money. Plus, there is always a possibility that Liberty will allow JS to spend a little more. I don’t know how great that possibility is… we’ll just have to wait and see.

What about Smoltz? I’m sure he will want to come back next season, and I’m sure the Braves will do everything in their power to accommodate him. The Braves really just have to figure out how to juggle things in 08’ (assuming Liberty keeps payroll where it is), because after the 08’ season, this payroll will be a lot less “top-heavy” as the contracts of both Chipper and Hampton will expire, freeing up at least 25% of the Braves’ payroll.

“The other side of this is what if Hudson doesn’t have that spectacular season. Then what? The Braves are stuck paying $13 mil to a guy with a near 4.00 ERA and who can barely get out of the 5th inning. Yeah, he probably will bounce back this year but the Braves don’t have the payroll flexibility to take that risk.”

I’m sorry, have you by any chance caught Sportscenter lately??? Did you happen to notice that Vicente friggin’ Padilla and Ted #$%^& Lilly are about to make 11 million a season? Do you really think that in this market… we’re going to get “stuck” with Hudson? We all agree that Tim Hudson is coming off a lousy season… yet it’s right in line with what V.Padilla has done over the last 3 seasons, and just got paid 33 million dollars for. That’s the one (and only) good thing about this market for the Braves… it took Atlanta’s risk factor with Hudson down to almost nothing.

By Mitchie-san

December 7, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this

I would much rather have Rocco than Chone. I like them both, but rocco has more pop and is younger.

By KD

December 7, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

I have heard rumors that Smoltz wouldn’t mind a trade to a team like the Yankees, or Red Sox to strengthen his chance at another World Series. Probably needs another to pad his credentials for the Hall of Fame.

By Thrillhouse

December 7, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the updates, DOB. Love your blog. I’m excited to see the Braves addressing their needs!

By Greg

December 7, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this

KC, you’re absolutely right. This year’s free agent market has made the salaries that the Braves pay to Hudson and Hampton seem reasonable. Plus, it’s time for the Chipper haters to stop moaning about his salary. At $12 million per he’s a bargain. That’s what Boston is paying JD Drew. And who would you rather have?

I was really POed about this off season. But I have to say that the Soriano deal is a great move. I like HoRam, but Soriano and Wickman give us the chance to play 21st Century ball. That’s the game where starting pitchers only go six innings and then they turn it over to fresh arms. Now we just two other guys in the pen to step up and have a good year.

And we need to trade Giles and a prospect for a leadoff man. Keep LaRoche. The only way I would part with LaRoche is for Figgins. He can flat motor, and he is really versatile in the field. He’s wasted in the AL because they don’t play the speed game.

If we can do that, we may give the Mets some competition.

I still hate Time Warner.

By lin

December 7, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this

ok by time this is over and spring training is over and games begin and already into alstar game and here comes end aug. we will be in 3 or 4th place once more. we make 2nd be amazing. the money factor keeps us from good players needed. its the hitters that make the pitchers and bull pen to hold. if closer gets hurt then problem. if starter gets hurt then problem. if chipper gets hurt again questionable. andrew he is good to a point. he needs stop trying be show of with swings of wasted time and engery then he could be worth keeping. yet andrew is his own man. new owners if they ever develop into being owners doubt if they spend any money help club. so dont expect see first place for very long time. im still a boston fan and always will be as grew up with them. atl is my 2nd choice. dont even discuss boston with me as they seem be crazy lately also ha.

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 08:45 AM | Link to this

Kay,

1) If the Braves trade LaRoche it will not be just for “fill-in players.”

2) MLB will let anyone buy the team that is going to increase demand for their product and therefore increase MLB’s revenue.

3) I don’t know if the Braves have never had solid pitching and hitting at the same time. In the late 1990’s they were pretty good at both.

4) If you want to blame someone for a lack of payroll flexibility, blame Schuerholz for distributing most of his payroll to three players. The Braves actually had the 9th highest payroll in the game on Opening Day of last season. Plenty of teams won more games with a lower payroll.

But the Braves are fine. They had one off year because of their bullpen and misfortune. There are quite a few franchises in much worse shape. They should be back to somewhere around 90 wins in ‘07.

By KC

December 7, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

Shaun: Where are you getting this “per 162 games stuff”???

• Last season… Schmidt: 3.59 ERA / Zito: 3.83

• Over the last 2 seasons… Schmidt: 3.95 / Zito: 3.85

• Over the last 3 seasons… Schmidt: 3.67 / Zito: 4.29

• Over the last 4 seasons… Schmidt: 3.33 / Zito: 3.86

• Career post-season… Schmidt: 3.06 / Zito: 3.25

I personally think ERA is a much better measure of a starting pitcher than wins, but in case anyone’s curious… over the last 4 years, Schmidt’s win% is .667, and Zito’s is .540.

Schmidt did not have a very good season in 05’, so Zito’s ERA over the last two seasons is slightly lower. But overall, Schmidt’s numbers are better across the board. Having said that, I would be happy to have either of those guys on my team… especially given the excellent post-season performance of both.

By KC

December 7, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

KD:

Whoever told you that was an idiot.

First of all, Smoltz doesn’t want to leave Atlanta. What’s more, he wouldn’t necessarily have any better chance in Boston or NY to win a World Series.

Boston and the Yanks are both fine offensive ballclubs… but the Braves aren’t too shabby in that department either. They were the best offensive team in the NL this year. And as for the pitching… the Braves bullpen is going to look great next season, and a rotation headed by Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, and James, has a chance to be special.

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

KD,

I don’t think Smoltz is going anywhere. The Braves would ask for a lot more than teams would probably give up. Think about it, the Braves would need a number one starter for Smoltz, Smoltz is getting up there in age so most number ones are going to be younger. Who would give up a younger number one starter for Smoltz?

By KC

December 7, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this

Greg: I don’t know about trading LaRoche for Figgins. Figgins has never boasted a great ERA for a leadoff man (I think it was .333 last year?). And while a true leadoff guy can really help your offense… can he help as much as getting 32 HR and 90 RBI from your #7 hitter? I don’t know.

But ultimately, I have enough faith in Braves management that, if they do it, it’ll probably wind up being the right move.

I would personally like to see them package LaRoche, Giles, and Davies together to acquire another top-tier starter, but I’m not sure there’s one available… in fact, I’m pretty sure there’s not.

By Mark

December 7, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the Braves should trade Laroche. If the the self-imposed $80MM cap is the problem, find other ways to save the $3-4MM extra needed to keep him. Personally, I think the Braves should have kept Betemit last year and found an American League team for Chipper to DH for. He’s hurt half the time anyway. Trade Chipper to the AL for prospects, keep Laroche. He’s only going to get better.

By KC

December 7, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

Shaun:

One more thing… in regard to Schmidt being injury prone… Schmidt has not made fewer than 29 stats in 6 years.

He may be more likely to miss 4 or 5 starts a season, but it’s not like he’s Mark Prior or Kerry wood.

By Salty

December 7, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

KC You wrote: “Figgins has never boasted a great ERA for a leadoff man.” Look again…it’s zero…not shabby at all! LOL! I couldn’t resist!

By ncscoots

December 7, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

Sorry, but the only way an Angels trade makes sense to me is pitching included. If LaRoche goes in a package for a good starter (Santana or even Escobar, for that matter), OK, I can live with that. But for a “leadoff hitter” of mediocre OBP and a good 1B prospect? Huh-uh, sorry, that’s called an armed felony in my book.

By Dirty Dawg

December 7, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this

Corporations shouldn’t own sports franchises…particularly corporations that don’t give a damn about sports unless they can give them an ROI that’s greater than their core business, AND that don’t give a damn about the city in which that team plays. With Time-Warner, and probably that media operation out in Denver that will own them next, they’re not headquartered in Atlanta so why should they care? They’ll just keep shaving the budget - or keep it stagnent while the rest of baseball - and particularly the Mets - goes wild. Look for the same old limits on the Braves until somebody else buys ‘em…of course by then JS and BC will have thrown up their hands and moved on.

By KC

December 7, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

Shaun: “If you want to blame someone for a lack of payroll flexibility, blame Schuerholz for distributing most of his payroll to three players. The Braves actually had the 9th highest payroll in the game on Opening Day of last season. Plenty of teams won more games with a lower payroll.”

Shaun, JS gave those contracts to Chipper and Andruw back when the Braves had Ted Turner’s pocket book… so I don’t think we “can blame Schuerholz” for the “top-heavy” payroll we have now. Clearly he has not been doling out ridiculous contracts… well, ever… but especially not since TW tightened the purse strings on him.

Also, in regard to the Braves having the 9th highest payroll… those ranking systems count the entire salary of the players on each team’s roster, and do not take into account the fact that some of Hampton’s salary, and half of Renteria’s salary is being paid by their former teams. The Braves were in the middle of the payroll pack in MLB, and still are.

By Dennis

December 7, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

DOB

The major concern is the Braves have no plan in place if Smoltz should go after this season. The farm system is empty at the AA and AAA levels meaning we really have no one ready to move up. A Lerew may be but right now he is not major league ready. Should we trade LaRoche to the O’s or Pirates for a young major league ready starter?

I would not mind Penn or Loewen in a Braves uniform. Also have the Braves met with the D-Rays on Baldelli? Besides Chuck James who would we have to give up? He is budget friendly and could prove to be the kind of player the Braves could use for several years.

Or will JS go home happy he got what he wanted?

By KC

December 7, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

Salty:… Yeah, thanks for pointing that out. Oops. I meant OBP, of course.

By Alan Burroughs

December 7, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Trade Chipper, Andruw, and Smoltz and you free up a load of money. Andruw is a free agent at the end of the year and is gone anyways. Chipper and Smoltz eat up $20 mill.

By John Tarleton

December 7, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

Alright…if you are going to trade laRoche, here it is. Trade him for Mike Gonzalez. Then turn aroung and (package) trade Wickman, Giles, and Hudson for a young gun starter and a lead off man. You will be trading players people want. Everyone wants a closer. make them take Giles and/or Hudson too. With Soriano and Gonzalez, you have a closer and a set-up man, and you are clearing major pay role with Hudson and Wickman…Giles too. If they won’t budge on Giles, keep him for another year. Shed Hudson’s payrole now. People will offer bigtme if it is Hudson and Wickman.

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

KC,

BaseballReference.com. Look up Zito and Schmidt and it will give you their career averages per 162 games.

Zito played in a tougher league and faces a DH instead of a pitcher in 99 percent of his starts. Plus Zito is younger and has been very healthy so far in his career.

I think it’s close because Schmidt has the potential to be a Cy Young contender in any given season. But Zito is younger and more reliable.

Actually ERA is better than wins, as you say, but it has some major flaws also—it depends on defense. A pitcher’s ERA is going to be lower with AJ in center than with Bernie Williams in center. It’s much better to look at things like BB, K, HR, Hit Batters than ERA.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=878

(I like the first two sentences of this article.)

By KC

December 7, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

Mark: Don’t worry. The Braves will not be trading LaRoche simply to clear payroll space. I feel confident in saying, that was never the motivation. In fact, a major reason why LaRoche is so attractive to other teams is that he’s still a bargain. The Braves might make LaRoche-Figgins deal, but they’d probably have to include a bonafide prospect in that deal. If LaRoche goes anywhere, it is more likely that it will be for a quality starter now.

By Wayne

December 7, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

Thank you Time-Warner for ruining this team twice: First, when you bought it, and, second, when you’re trying to sell it…

By BB FAN

December 7, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

I’m not too crazy about the LaRoche for Figgins and Kotchman rumor either. Figgins isn’t a high on base guy. I would rather have the Braves use an “in house” guy (Aybar) to lead off than to trade LaRoche for Figgins and Kotchman.

A LaRoche trade should bring a real good pitcher back to the Braves. Another blogger mentioned earlier Hudson/LaRoche for Figgens/Santana. I would like that trade but it’s doubtful the Angels would give up Santana even though they really need to improve their offense.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

Dennis, you just wrote: “The major concern is the Braves have no plan in place if Smoltz should go after this season. The farm system is empty at the AA and AAA levels meaning we really have no one ready to move up.”

If that’s the major concern, my friend, then the Braves are sitting pretty. Seriously, that’s your big worry right now? Come on, man. You see how fast things can change. As we sit here today, the Braves have under their control and/or under contract these starters for 2008: Chuck J, Hampton, Hudson, Davies … and prospects topped by LHP Matt Harrison, who was strong at Double-A last season.

There’s no reason to believe they won’t try to sign Smoltz to a Glavine-like contract if Smoltz is still healthy and hungry, since you gotta figure he’s going to want to stay in Atlanta. But even if not, or if the payroll doesn’t loosen up, they can do a ton of things between now and then to get a starter, including trading prospects, etc.

Not the time to worry about the 2008 rotation, when we don’t even have any idea what payroll will be, what prospects will do this year, if Hudson will bounce back, if Hampton comes back strong, etc. Way, way too much else interesting or more pertinent.

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

KC,

My point was that the Braves are fine, even with their current payroll (wherever they may rank). As I said, there are plenty of franchises in worse shape.

And I do think it’s bad to tie that much of your payroll into a few players (unless you’re the Yankees) but there are teams with a lot more tied into a lot worse players. At least the players that are expensive to the Braves are great players.

I guess my major point is you can nitpick all day long, but Schuerholz is still a great GM and has done a good job with this franchise. If they don’t win somewhere between 85-95 games in ‘07, I will be shocked.

By jacson

December 7, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

Stop talking about trading Andruw. Now that we have Soriano & Wickman, we will make the playoffs and beyond. The payroll will get reduced after next year when Andruw leaves. We will get extra draft picks and some of our Rookies will be ready to contribute. Boras will write us off on Andruw anyway. We already have enough bats to score some runs with this payroll and suddenly our pitching looks much, much better. A LOT depends on Huddy & and our “Little Lefty”. As for Davis, trade him…If there are any Suckers that will take him.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

John T., you came with this: “Alright…if you are going to trade laRoche, here it is. Trade him for Mike Gonzalez. Then turn aroung and (package) trade Wickman, Giles, and Hudson for a young gun starter and a lead off man.”

Dude, Gonzalez talks are dead. Braves pulled offer. Teams aren’t pleased with each other one bit about now, not going to restart that deal, I’d imagine.

As for the rest of it, we can put fantasy trades on hold for at least one more day while we’re here and they’re doing real trades.

Why, oh why, would you trade Bob Wickman after you signed him to a $6.5 mill deal that now looks like the best bargain of all closers? That’d be insanity.

And John S. and Bobby have made it abundantly clear they don’t think leadoff’s a priority, so all the suggestions in the world from those outside the organization aren’t going to sway their opinion and make it a priority overnight. Pitching, pitching, pitching.

(Although if I could trade Giles and get Figgins in some way to play 2B and bat leadoff, I’d do it in a heartbeat. I just wouldn’t trade LaRoche to do it.)

By eware

December 7, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

DOB, did the Braves pick-up anybody in the Rule 5 draft today? I saw that Sean White is now a Pirate.

Is the Rule 5 draft even that big of a deal to the Braves?

Any thoughts as to why Giles is not getting more attention? Was it his drop-off in power?

By Mitchie-san

December 7, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

There are still options to make this team more “whole”. Laroche can fill this need. I believe we need more speed than we have. A good leadoff guy can do that. Not many of the Braves play small ball(because Bobby doesnt). Speed is a weapon in this game. I have always loved to have more steals, more hit and runs, more squeezes, etc. I hate watching the Braves play and wait for them to try and crush the ball out of the park every at bat. We dont have very many “situational hitters”. Speed intimidates opposing pitchers and managers to the point that it is an advantage. Look how many Braves swing for the fences everytime? Andruw, Chipper, Francour, Laroache…If they just took more time at the darn plate, waiting for a pitch to hit, not crush, strikeouts would go down and more balls put into play. I swear, the Braves fly out more than any other team. Well, I dont know if there is a stat tht says that, but I am just venting…..Gomennasai.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

The Grinch,

The fans up thier are much more fickle than Braves fans…if you can believe that…I was amazed at how fair weather they were, when I was stationed up at Ft. Lewis.

By Ihatethebraves

December 7, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

braves suck.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

KD writes: “I have heard rumors that Smoltz wouldn’t mind a trade to a team like the Yankees, or Red Sox to strengthen his chance at another World Series. Probably needs another to pad his credentials for the Hall of Fame.”

No. 1, this is the same old garbage that people stirred up and created in early July after Smoltz said that Detroit would be a natural place for people to speculate he’d get traded to (when there was NEVER any thought from the Braves to trade him). No. 2, I don’t believe Smoltz has told anyone he’d like to be traded to the Yanks or Sox. And No. 3, who cares if he “wouldn’t mind” a trade to one of those teams? He’s under contract at an extremely affordable rate for such a productive pitcher, and the Braves are counting on him to be their ace, and he’s NEVER asked them to trade him.

Non-issue in every respect. Oh, and Allan, the Braves would be certifiably kookoo to trade the man.

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

KC,

Basically ERA is largely affected by hits allowed. And hits allowed is largely affected by defense (a double in the gap is more likely to be an out with AJ or Beltran in center instead of someone like Bernie Williams).

When evaluating pitchers you want to look at indicators of what a pitcher can control—making the ball miss the bat completely or enough so that a hitter doesn’t hit it hard, throwing strikes—K, BB, HBP, HR. There may be some flaws in analyzing a pitcher that way, too, but it’s not nearly as flawed as ERA or wins or even WHIP.

Anyway, Schmidt looks slightly better but he is also older, played in an easier league for pitchers and has had injuries where Zito is younger, faced tougher competition, and had to face a DH in almost all of his starts. It’s close, because Schmidt at his best is better than Zito at his best. But I’m not sure how much more at-his-best Schmidt has left in him. With Zito you are pretty much guaranteed 215 at least decent innings.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Care to comment on the Bucco blog story I posted around 3am this morning…I thought that was hilarious. What is the scoop on that…whats the story…

By Lew

December 7, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Scoots-Good Morning, Dude-Not so sure I agree with you about Figgins. He usually has a .350 OBP, which is not terrible, he has speed and is a good base stealer who has a pretty high success rate. His versatility and ability to play 3 infield and all outfield positions makes up for a bit of inadequacy in the OBP department. His career BA is .285, so I see him as being a fit. Look at this lineup and tell me it’s not good 1.Figgins 2.Renteria 3.Chipper 4.Andruw 5.McCann 6.Francoeur 7. Diaz/Langerhans 8.Thorman. Dude, that’s a potent offense, well capable of scoring beaucoup runs. With the improvement to the bullpen, I don’t see any other team in our division as being better. I’d also like to see Cormier get a shot at fifth starter. JasonInMaine-Is the weather cold enough for you, yet? Don’t worry too much about the Phillies getting more pitching. Jusat keep i mind that they still need to pitch in Philadelphia, something I’m not sure Sandy Koufax could have done in that stadium.

By JasonInMaine

December 7, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Sorry to be redundant, but what are your thoughts on the Braves making another move befor the meetings conclude today?

Regards,

Jason

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

NCBravesFan, you wrote: “DOB Perhaps off topc to where we are today, but with the payroll constraints in place and some of those salaries mentioned above spiking in 2008 … do you have any sense for what the Braves’ plan for the pitching staff in two years?”

Two years? TWO YEARS?

Uh … James, Hampton and fill in three blanks.

By Phat Bat Boy

December 7, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

I’m certainly not claiming to know LaRoche personally, so I’ll ask this question assuming nothing other than his relative youth (in baseball years)… will he be okay returning to the Braves after all of this trade talk? On one hand, the baseball world obviously likes this guy which should be a confidence-builder. On the other hand, your team was dangling you as bait for something they viewed as more valuable to the team (due to the presence of Thorman). Just wondering if LaRoche will have any emotional baggage if he stays with the team. DOB, what do you think?

By Lew

December 7, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

Shaun-But Zito pitched in a stadium with foul territory the size of North Dakota. I know KC thinks it doesn’t make much difference, but look at how those pitchers who have left Oakland have dropped in effectiveness since leaving. It matters.

By KC

December 7, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

I’m not at all concerned about the Braves 80 million dollar payroll next season. I think they’ve got enough young and bargain priced talent to overcome that limitation. However, it appears that over the next few years, it’s going to become increasingly challenging to compete without loosening the purse strings just a bit. I didn’t say “impossible”, but will only get harder from here.

So, that brings us to the ownership issue.

According to Schuerholz, the Braves loose a little money every year. Now of course, Time Warner has benefited in other ways each season. They also own TBS and owned Turner South, both of which were made more valuable by owning broadcast rights to the Braves… and there are other ways, not apparent on the surface, in which TW made a little money off the Braves. But overall, it’s true that they were not pulling down much from the Braves of anything in the way of revenue at the end of each year.

HOWEVER…

If memory serves me correctly, when Time Warner took over the Atlanta Braves a few years ago, the franchise was worth somewhere in the neighborhood of 300-350 million. I believe the sale price of the Braves to Liberty Media 460 million.

The profit potential of owning an MLB team is in selling it. These days, most MLB franchises are appreciating at a nice clip. If Liberty re-sells this team a few years down the line as most expect they will… they will likely fetch 550-600 million for it.

In other words, losing a “little” (relatively speaking, of course) money each year on a team like the Braves each year doesn’t really matter all that much if you can turn around and sell it at 100 million dollar profit in just a few years.

What I think all of this means is that the odds of Liberty cutting payroll any from where it currently stands are virtually nil. Unfortunately, as long as the Braves can compete while remaining fairly close to the break-even mark (around 80 million), Liberty may have little reason to change anything. However, given that Liberty Media views this franchise as an appreciating asset, they will probably want to ensure the continued success of the team. So if an 80 million dollar payroll drops from the middle of the pack to, say… the bottom 1/3 in MLB… I think there’s a good chance that they’d “okay” a little more spending.

I’m nearly positive that Liberty won’t give into to the popular fiscal insanity that’s so popular in baseball these days (the Braves won’t be returning to a 100 million payroll any time soon), but they probably won’t want this franchise to loose any of its shine over the next few seasons. Make of that what you will.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

JasonInMaine

No your not…or you would of not asked a question that has been answered…you hsould be sorry for not taking the time to read the blog.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

Trade’s going to be announced in less than 1 hour, folks. But looks like Braves probably won’t do anything else today.

Next big date might be Tuesday, by which time they must decide whether to tender Giles a contract or let him go. Seriously, it could come to that if they can’t get some team to take his salary in a trade. By this point, I don’t think Braves are really even looking for much of anything in return.

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

Giles is better than Figgins

Giles: .285 AVG/.361 OBP/.448 SLG/5.68 Runs Created per 27 Outs

Figgins: .285 AVG/.345 OBP/.393 SLG/ 4.75 Runs Created per 27 Outs

Giles’s career OPS is 10 percent better than the league average, Figgins is under the league average for his career.

I’m not saying Figgins is bad at all, but he’s not an upgrade over Giles if he’s the everyday 2B.

By David

December 7, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

LaRoche for Figgins/Kotchman? I would jump at that. Move Giles (or package Gile and Hudson) for another arm and stay pat.

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

O’Brien,

If I’m the Braves, I keep Giles and probably LaRoche unless I can get a great setup man or at least a really good #3 starter. If healthy, Giles is probably the best 2B in the league.

By KC

December 7, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

Shaun:

All those number are nice man, but in the end a pitcher has one job… keep the other team from scoring. That’s it. ERA is a simple measurement of how many earned runs a pitcher has allowed per 9 innings pitched. There is no truer measurement of a pitcher’s success. The only other stat that really matters for a starting pitcher is innings-pitched.

Obviously, J.Sosa was not quite as good in 05 as his ERA would indicate, because he was truly a 5 inning pitcher. He taxed the bullpen on a regular basis, detracting from his value to the team.

But that’s it man… ERA and innings pitched.

Your point about the defense is well taken. That can make a difference… though it will not greatly affect a pitcher’s ERA.

As for AL vs. NL… these days, there is about a 10% difference in offense (runs scored) between leagues. So if a guy has an ERA of 3.90 in the AL, maybe you could accurately say that ERA would be 3.60 in the NL.

By KC

December 7, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this

CORRECTION: meant to say… “According to Schuerholz, the Braves lose a little money every year.”

By Big Daddy

December 7, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

DOB, how do you manage to wade through all the stupid crap on this blog before you get to the occasional intelligent post?

If I read one more time, “trade Andrew, Chipper and Smoltz and you can free up all the money you need” I think I’ll turn off the d&mn computer.

By JasonInMaine

December 7, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Billy,

Out of curiosity, when did the question get answered and by whom? I was apologizing for being redundant in my line of questioning, excluding what others have asked.

Regards,

Jason

By Lee

December 7, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

JS is a genius, if this works. The new and improved bullpen should virtually shut down opposing teams! I think we should keep Roachy. Since he got help for his problem(ADHD), he has been nothing but phenomenal! I say definitely get rid of Giles, that is if we can get anything for him! Keep AJ for one more year And we should have enough offense to GO ALL THE WAY, as ole Howard Cosell loved to say!!!

By billy g

December 7, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

I still don’t understand why we are holding onto Hampton. I have seen rumors of trades involving Hudson but not Hampton. Is it because Hampton is quite possibly the most overpaid player in the league?

By NCBravesFan

December 7, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

DOB - thanks for the updates. I agree, things can change really fast - I just hope that we can keep this incredible run going beyond the next year or two. It’s clear that the salary limitations are becoming a real issue, and JS has done a masterful job of keeping a good core of players together despite those limitations. Lesser minds would have taken us to a mediocre place already most likely.

By N8

December 7, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

Big Daddy

Where can I get a D & MM computer? Are they as good as a Dell?

Sorry. Had to. It’s early and I couldn’t figure out what the Hell the “&” was doing in there. Like I said. IT’S EARLY!

By Dave

December 7, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

DOB: Many thanks for looking up Kotchman’s numbers late last night. I’d like to have Kotchman on my team for sure.

By ryan

December 7, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

bill are you an idiot, hampton overpaid, u need to know more baseball before opening your dumb mouth. Before getting hurt he was one of the best pitchers, even good players get hurt, its the risk of the game. Take time to think of overpaid, A-Rod granted hes good, but 25 mil a year good, nope. JD Drew 70 mil good no fricking way, lilly 40 mil good, nope, baez 7 a year good nope, stop opening your mouth before you know something

By NYM

December 7, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

Did the Mets sign Zito yet?

By BB FAN

December 7, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

“Giles is better than Figgins”

Again, statistics are not everything. Just because the stats say that Giles is better than Figgins, it doesn’t mean that Giles would be a better fit for the team. Baseball is a team game! Each player has a role that they play. Figgins would give the Braves a different look…speed. Giles doesn’t provide speed. The Braves don’t have any speed now. Figgins can also play multiple positions. Giles can’t. You are so stuck on statistics that you are blind to what a player can provide otherwise. The game of baseball is more than individual statistics! We’ve had this conversation before.

I’m not saying that LaRoche for Figgins/Kotchman is a good deal though. The Braves should get a quality young starter in return for LaRoche. But if they can acquire Figgins and Santana or Saunders or Weaver for LaRoche, Hudson and/or Giles, then great. But the Angels supposedly don’t want to trade any of their pitching. I think will have to if they want to add the offense for 2007 they badly need. All of this year’s free agent hitters are signed. Of course, they could just wait until next year’s free agent class.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

JasonInMaine,

You have the gull or confidence to have me do the research to make you look stupid…ok.

Check out the post that has the time stamp:

By David O’Brien

December 6, 2006 10:56 PM

I think that pretty much sums up what you asked. DOB Gave an update to all the stuff going on with the Braves at the Winter Meetings…That took me less than 3 minutes to find…

I’m not trying to be rude but people ask the same questions over and over with out taking the time to read. Then want you to point to them where thier question is answered…Laziness at its best.

Still have that curiosity?

By Dennis

December 7, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

DOB

Most teams have a future pitching stud in waiting ie:

Dodgers Everts SF Lincecum Yanks Hughes

We have a large gap, most of our really talented arms are in rookie or single A ball several years away. My estimate is that Beau Jones will be the next guy who could make an impact in two years. Could we get Adenhart fron the Angels in the LaRoche deal?

Pitching, pitching pitching!

DJ

By N8

December 7, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

Lew

“Shaun-But Zito pitched in a stadium with foul territory the size of North Dakota.”

Yeah, but does Oakland get as cold as it does up here?

I do happen to agree with you. Oakland’s foul territory is RIDICULOUS, compared to all the new band boxes. I LOVE IT. Yeah, I know that fans want to be closer to the action, who wouldn’t? But look at old Fulton County Stadium. Believe me (and I know you do, or you wouldn’t have made the point…..IT HELPED.)

I’ve seen the same argument made for/against Hudson’s struggles, and for the most part, I’ve stayed out of it. But since you brought my home state into the conversation, I must join in! LOL! Everybody says that the foul territory in Oakland didn’t effect Hudson be cause he is a sinkerballer. DUMBEST ARGUEMENT I’ve ever heard. What? A sinker baller NEVER has a pitch fould off in the air? He never misses his spot? YEAH RIGHT. Afte 2 years of watching him pitch, I’ll vouch that he DOES.

Here’s an example. Not quite crystal clear on the batter (Visquel?), but in the 9th inning of game six in the 95 WS (you know, the won we DID win), does anybody remember the GREAT running catch that Belliard mad in foul territory along the LF line at Fulton County? Yeah, go back and watch the replay of it. That ball is AT LEAST 3 rows back in the seats at TURNER FIELD. Ask yourself what happens when players foul of pitches. Usually the advantage starts shifting towards the hitter, doesn’t it? Hell, even if it doesn’t, ONE MORE PITCH mighta been all that Visquel (if it was him) needed to drive a double to the wall and set-up a pressure cook sitiuation. I know…..if’s and but’s……

Anyhow, just stating my opinon that all of the SMALL foul territory in these new stadiums (which there is more new ones that OLD ones) has just as much to do with the offensive outbursts as the JUICE does, IMO.

By Billy C

December 7, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

Ryan you on crack? oh, the anti-christ?

By john tarleton

December 7, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

DOB, you said “Why, oh why, would you trade Bob Wickman after you signed him to a $6.5 mill deal that now looks like the best bargain of all closers? That’d be insanity.” You hit the nail on the head…he seems like a great deal, so you trade him with Giles and Hudson for a big return. He is really good. But if you resume talks over Gonzalez, you are getting a cheap stud in return…and he is much younger. If you could get Gonz, and have Soriano, you can trade Wickman. Everyone would want him. You keep acting like Braves can only trade their high priced players that aren’t any good anymore. It would be nice if it worked that way, but it doesn’t. Sometimes you have to make smaller trades to facilitate bigger trades. Remember the trade before we got Sheffield? A certain starter who was terrible??? Everyone though JS was crazy…but it opened the way to get Shef.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Ryan,

If you think the contract Hampton signed was a great value you need to take you own advice. Considering the circumstances…Hampton is overpaid…he’s earned millions of dollars and hasnt thrown a Major League picth in almost 2 years.

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

KC,

A pitcher’s job is to keep the other team from scoring, but he has help. And ERA is measure of how good the pitcher is and how good his help is. It’s doesn’t do as good a job of telling you how good a pitcher is at keeping a team from scoring as looking at things only he can control.

Wouldn’t you agree that ERA is affected greatly by hits allowed? Wouldn’t you also agree that many hits are affected largely by who’s playing defense, defensive positioning, and good/bad fortune—things that are largely out of a pitcher’s control? Is it the pitcher’s fault if a routine grounder is hit right at his fielder or slightly out of his reach?

Batting average allowed on balls in play is pretty inconsistent from season to season even for the same pitchers. But there is a DIPS ERA (Defense Independent Pitching Statistics ERA) that is realiable—the same pitchers will lead the league in this category from season to season, all things being equal.

By Mitchie-san

December 7, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Oh, just get rid of Laroche and get Figgins or preferably Rocco Baldeli…. and a pitching prospect…. ;)

By BravesFaninRockies

December 7, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Re: Giles vs. Figgins:

What I love about Figgins is his flexibility. He can play 2B, SS, 3B and all three outfield positions. Unlike other players with his skills, you can move him around if you want to, and his offense doesn’t suffer.

Plus he’s got some gap power. And I don’t know what to make of his modest OBP.

Look, Scoscia and Mickey Hatcher don’t want their guys taking lots of pitches. They loathe stikeouts more than they covet walks. They expect their hitters to look for a strike and put the ball in play. I don’t particularly like that strategy, because you tend to not put strain on the other team’s pitching staff, but it’s what they do.

Put Figgins in a situation where patience is more appreciated (unless your initials are JF), and he could be a super leadoff man.

By Mitchie-san

December 7, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

Wikipedia is my new source for trade info after last night. ;)

By bruce

December 7, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Billy or is that TRBFKB Here is a Don Sutton link you asked for.

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/shared/sports/stories/2006/10/BBOSUTTON1006_COX.html

By David

December 7, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

DOB, a few days ago on the blog, you were saying there was no chance the Braves would cut Giles and that there were acceptable deals on the table for him. Now, you are saying there is a chance he will be non-tendered. What changed and what are the odds of this happening? Is there any chance at this point that Giles is a Brave in 2007?

By Dallas, GA Braves Fan

December 7, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

HELP, I do not see anywhere that the trde has been announced. I am bouncing between ESPN/ESPN2 and refreshing my 4 tabs on the new IE7. Nothing yet, has anyone heard or seen anything? Also what was Bora$$ talking about last night with the “new information” comment? DOB you seem adimant that no Andruw trade is coming but hints and indications aroung the rumors are that something may be brewing? I sure would like to see another proven veteran in our Pen, a nice washed up starter that could be a long middle reliever would be nice to provide some leadership out there. I would also like to see a solid everyday LF and a top of the lineup hitter (I know leadoff is not a priority, just what I would like to see)

By bruce

December 7, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Billy Finding that link took about three minutes.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 7, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Figgins is approaching Crawford status as far as amount of time being talked about on this blog…..

CL I apologize for the foul language, yesterday. But hey, at least I tried to warn you before you read it. Do I get demerits removed for the effort? ;)

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

bruce,

thanks…found it last night.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 7, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

By bruce

December 7, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Billy Finding that link took about three minutes.

….Saw that one coming from miles away. Carry on.

By bruce

December 7, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

just got the cell phone alert that HoRam deal is done…

also DOB has new blog up

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

bruce,

Now, why would you not post that last night? Hmmm, instead you post it now…oh…I know….you wanted to make me look bad…ahhh…your smart.

Obviously bruce you did not get my sarcasim when I asked that question….

bruceget a life

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

It’s official

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061207&contentid=1753687&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

By Mitchie-san

December 7, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

The “new information” Boras was talking about i bet bet was him wanting Andruw to strike while the iron is hot. I bet he is asking that he waive his no-trade clause because the market is crazy right now. He probably has a deal in the works with a club Andruw will go to anyway. You know, sign that big deal now instead of waiting until next year in case he slumps or gets hurt. It really sounds like something he would do.

By Dallas, GA Braves Fan

December 7, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

[Braves say its a done deal 5 mins ago] (http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061207&contentid=1753687&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl)

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

BB FAN,

Is baseball a team game? I had no idea!

Seriously, speed is nice and helps, but it’s not a necessity. Besides, it’s not like Giles is slow. Figgins’s edge in speed doesn’t make up for Giles’s edge in ability to avoid outs/get on and hit for power.

I would take Figgins if it means the Braves can acquire someone else that would help improve the run differential, but all things being equal Giles is better.

Giles provides the Braves with a secondbaseman who makes fewer outs and hits for more power than Chone Figgins. And it’s not like he’s that much slower.

Yes, Figgins versatility does help, which is why I said if Figgins is the everyday secondbaseman, he would be a downgrade compared to Giles.

By Dallas, GA Braves Fan

December 7, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

Mitchie totally agree. I know Boras is the best agent in the market, but I always thought Andruw had higher moral standards especially after he and his father brokered the last deal without any agent. I hope he sticks around with an elevated Braves budget.

By Ray

December 7, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

Just goes to show you how insane baseball salaries have become. 80 million should be WAY more then enough to compete, but even that amount leaves teams with little flexibility. As long as baseball continues to function without a hard cap, teams like the Yankees will keep outlandishly driving salaries up, team disparity will continue, and fans will pay ever increasing ticket prices to foot the bill. I, for one, am glad the Braves are unwilling to engage in such nonsense. If 80 million can’t field a good team, then so be it.

By Dallas, GA Braves Fan

December 7, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

Ah Sweet justice, juice does not equal $$:

Jocketty: Cards not interested in Bonds
Despite what manager Tony La Russa said Wednesday about wanting to meet with Barry Bonds, the Cardinals are not interested in the free agent slugger, GM Walt Jocketty said

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061207&content_id=1753614&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

I just don’t understand why the Braves would just cut Giles loose. It seems like they are undervaluing him slightly. I know he’s probably going to get more money than he’s worth, but he’s also one of the top five 2B in baseball when healthy. And health is a concern but he hasn’t been that unhealthy. I would take him for the $5-6 million max that he would get in arbitration to try to win a championship next season or trade him if I could get a good pitcher.

By Dallas, GA Braves Fan

December 7, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Ok I dont think there are a ton of you bloggers out there reading these but I would like to get your opinion. JS stated “We want to get our pitching back to the level it was for most of the past 15 years,” said Schuerholz, who led the Braves to an unprecedented streak of 14 consecutive division titles by consistently building his team around a strong pitching staff. Have the Brves honestly done that with ONE trade for a setup man? I mean I think the Braves pitching staff would have held at least 1 20 game winner if we had a relief staff and a closer for a full year, BUT if JS believes that we have resurrected our whole pitching staff with one trade I am concerned!!!

By bruce

December 7, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

Hi Billy:

I do not want to get into a contest with you. So let me start with an apology for my “three minute” remark… I am sorry. You would win the contest, but that is not the reason. I do not try to show people up, but I will try to make a joke as long as it is not hurtful. I did not think it was hurtful. Sorry.

I did not catch any sarcasim regarding your Don Sutton post last night. No, I was not trying to make you look stupid. But I did go to bed before the original Sutton post and your response.

Allow me this though… I do think you jumped on me too hard in your 11:54pm and 12:04pm posts back at me for my 11:39pm and 11:45pm. So I wrote you at 8:19am morning about that, explaining myself and taking issue with your characterization.

When I noticed that you were back after I wrote you this morning, I looked up the Sutton link and sent it, actually in friendly manner to get a response in case you were ignoring my 8:19. I would not have noticed your three minute comment to Jason except that I was looking to see if you were back and maybe responding to my 8:19am. If I had thought to put a :) (smiley face) next to my three minute remark, I would have and should have.

Then you thanked me for the link and said you found it last night, and I appreciated that. (I had real nice chat with Don Sutton while walking across the bridge after an August game in Pittsburg, shortly right after the Betemit trade, he graciously signed my cap bill.)

I’ll pass on responding to your “get a life” suggestion to try to further raise the bar. Hope this helps, sorry it took so many words…

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

Ray,

I’ve read some interesting stuff about ticket prices not being affected by salary increases, but by demand. And owners have done a good job creating demand increase by making cooler and smaller stadiums. They also realize there’s enough demand to earn revenue from satellite radio and TV packages.

The evidence is that salaries started making huge jumps around the early 1990’s after SkyDome, Camden Yards, etc. opened.

Also, owners have gotten smarter and started pricing tickets based on what they can instead of what they think they should.

As long as fans are willing to pay, owners are going to charge them the big bucks and they are going to be able to shell out big bucks for players.

And as long as the Yankees and Red Sox earn big revenue that makes everyone richer, they aren’t going to change their system significantly to level the playing field.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=betweenthenumbers/salarycap/060405

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

80 million should be WAY more then enough to compete, but even that amount leaves teams with little flexibility.

It depends on how efficient a GM can be and what division his team plays in as to if they can compete with an $80 million or less payroll. The A’s and Twins have done a pretty good job over the last several years.

True, it is a problem that the Yankees and Red Sox create so much imbalance in the AL East but then again maybe not. Baseball is making more money than ever, so there’s no incentive for anyone to change the system.

A better solution is a better way to distribute revenue so that the Yankees and Red Sox are not out earning everyone by the millions.

By JasonInMaine

December 7, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Billy,

Seriously, why do little people have to resort to name calling and such immature behavior? DOB’s post at 10:56 answered the question…last night. With the last day arriving, things change fast as evidenced by DOB’s post a few minutes after I asked the question. As far as stupid…I am sorry my fellow blogger, but it is not I who looks foolish in this conversation. I certainly have before and will again, but this particular conversation can not be added to that running collection. Either way, enjoy your blogging, have a Merry Christmas, and celebrate the New Year.

Regards,

Jason

By monty

December 7, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

THe biggest bargain on the Braves team right noe has got to be LA Roche. HE was probably the 3-4th best hitter in the league the 2nd half of last season.Not to mention gold glove caliber fielding. He’s really coming into his on right now. AT 3 million. He’s a steal when compared to a Chipper or an Andrew or even Renterrea.

By David

December 7, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

As usual Shaun is tragically wrong. Giles will be cut loose. No team will offer anything for him. Braves have been trying to give him away and yet no takers. Figgins is wanted by several teams. You can post all the OPS abd OBP figures you want, fact remains Figgins is wanted and a commodity and Giles is unwanted and will be dumped. What say ye?

By Jeffrey

December 7, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

Perhaps some day other teams will refuse to play the Yankees and Red Sox. After all, the money earned off a paying crowd is to watch the Yankees and Red Sox play somebody. The somebodies could demand an equal 50-50 cut of the gate. Sadly, today, your team’s chances of winning run as deep or as shallow as your owner’s pockets.

By kj

December 7, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

personally i think we should try and package hampton into a deal, a lot of people say they want pay that much for him, but look at the going rate this offseason for subpar pitching, i would prefer to move him, and not hudson

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

David,

I guarantee if Giles becomes a free agent, there are plenty of teams that will lineup for a chance to sign him.

I’m guessing at least as many teams would like to have Giles as would like to have Figgins.

How do you know Figgins is so desirable, more desirable than Giles? You must have more insider info than O’Brien.

By David 2

December 7, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

for those of me that don’t know how arbitration/free agency/rule 5/etc. work can someone explain what the situation with Giles is?

From what my small intellect can make out, if the Braves don’t offer him arbitration then he becomes a FA? If that happens any team is eligible to sign him at any contract price? Do the Braves get any compensation? Is this the Millwood situation, and if so, how did the Braves wind up with Estrada, as compensation?

I can’t believe they could not deal Giles for SOMETHING. Unless his fragile health is that much of a drawback to other teams.

(personally, I like Marcus, but I understand dollars rule)

Thanks

By Shaun

December 7, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

David 2,

I think the Braves would get draft picks for Giles if the non-tender him (fail to offer him arbitration), but I’m not sure. Otherwise I don’t know why they would do it. I would think even if they have to overpay him, it’s better than letting him go for absolutely nothing.

By Brent

December 7, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

The Braves are a much better team with Giles than without him. If Time Warner simply releases him rather than going $2 million over its budget to pay his salary, then I will have officially given up on Time Warner. Ridiculous.

By David 2

December 7, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

OK, found part of the answer (phew, have to have a law degree to be a baseball fan these days, curse you Curt Flood!)

Last day to tender contracts to players — December 12:

Players with more than three but fewer than six years service time must be offered a contract by this date. If they are, they remain property of that team. If not, they become non-tender free agents. This date has been moved up from December 20, meaning the “non-tenders” will join the regular free agent pool sooner and will compete with higher-priced players in the open market.

Rarely are star young players non-tendered. Teams would never want to risk losing them to the open market. Borderline players and young players who are due to make more money than their team deems they are worth are the most likely candidates to be non-tendered. Just like we see a sudden surge in free agent signings immediately after the deadline for teams to offer their free agents arbitration, there is a similar surge after the non-tender deadline.

From what I have been able to see, I don’t see any compensation whatsoever for a ‘non-tendered’.

So, if they Braves do not offer him a contract

By William

December 7, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Who cares

By David 2

December 7, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this

sorry, the last part got chopped off…if the Braves do not offer him a contract Giles walks, no compensation, nothing.

If that is how it plays out the management is going to look REAL foolish. They should have made a move in July to avoid what could be a real embarrassment.

Hey, it’s hockey season anyways…Go Thrashers!!

By Nelson Hawkins

December 7, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

OK, this Chone Figgins to play 2B and bat leadoff bull-plop has to die. Defensively, he is capable of handling the position only as a supersub (i.e., spelling the everyday 2B, or as emergency injury replacement), which is what he has been doing for the Angels. He has below league average fielding percentage and range factor for the position, and has only played 16% of his career games there (he has made 20% of his career errors there, which doesn’t bode well). OK, so you could put him in LF, but, offensively, his OBP is barely at league average for his career, he strikes out more than he walks, and he can’t slug at all. The 2 things he does appear to be able to do are bunt and steal bases, but how necessary are those at the 1st spot in the order? Surely we’ve been through this enough this year to know that having Giles leadoff did nothing to hamper the Braves offense—they scored the second most runs in the NL, but the pitching was 10th in ERA, 11th in runs, walks, strikeouts, and home runs allowed, and 12th in strikeouts. Trading one of the league’s top-5 1B for a supersub and a middlin’ 1B prospect who apparently doesn’t play when he has a sniffle…?

By Rick Roberts

December 7, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

Well, the BP is in place for ‘07 although one more RP would be nice—preferably LH. The Giles thing is puzzling—surely JS can get something for him by next week. The payroll is too much out of balance so expect Hudson to be traded. Still think LaRoche will go. Guys who could really help the Braves in these transactions: Figgins, CJWilson, MGonzalez, Baldelli or Crawford, any of Dodgers’ prospects, and Hadyn Penn. I live in KC—Dayton is doing it here—well trained by JS. If, they could sign Bautista as a closer, this team will surprise in ‘07 and be a factor in ‘08.

By Melissa

December 7, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this

Darrin, you are a complete idiot. You do not even know what you are saying. U say get rid of guys with Boras (by the way it is BORAS u can’t even spell it right.)as their agent then you go and say trade AJ for Willy Tavares, HELLLOOO Tavares is with Scott Boras also!!! Scott does what he is suppose to do for his players. He is not destroying baseball you are.

By rodneyo11

December 12, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this

Hey let’s just face it, the braves GM is messing up the team. They should have traded Chipper a long time ago(3yrs), he has been on the IR every year in the past 4 or 5 yrs, and think about the money he is taking up(12 milion) he we could have gotten some young pitchers, and also look at Hampton (9 million) and for what he has produced for the braves what 1yr. man what the heck is wrong with the GM. my math is not the best in the world but think about it what player or players could the braves have gotten for that for 21 million. the GM need to stop living off the past chipper is done and hampton is a has been. has anyone besides myself noticed that every year durning the off season you never hear the braves name mentioned when it comes to some of the top free agents, or durning the trading deadline, hey i take that back they do mentioned the braves when it comes to players nobody else wants, and then we give them too much dang money, i still have a bitter taste in my mouth about not resiging one of the best young SS in the game last year, letting him go to the dodgers, and let’s not forget how they did jones durning the season, if they wanted to put someone out there what about chipper, not one of the best centerfielder in the league. HEY I’M IN THE MILITARY AND I’M JUST TIRED OF BRAGGING ON MY GOERGIA TEAMS, AND EVERYONE LAUGHING IN MY FACE SAYING WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ANY TEAM IN GEORGIA HAS WON A CHAMPIONSHIP (FOOTBALL, BASKETBALL, BASEBALL, COLLEGE SPORTS, HOCKEY) LET’S PUT OUR STATE ON THE SPORT MAP AND SPEND SOME MONEY AND WIN A FEW CHAMPIONSHIPS. GEORGIA PRIDE FOREVER, BUT WE NEED CHAMPIONSHIPS. GEORGIA (912)….IN CAMP HOVEY, KOREA

By Alex Moser

December 20, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

DOB, What do you think about this deal ??

Atlanta sends Adam LaRoche and Jarrod Saltalamacchia to LAA for RHP Ervin Santana and 1B Kendry Morales then Atlanta sends Kyle Daives,Yunel Escobar and Matt Harrison to Tampa Bay for Rocco Baldelli.

LAA is interested in LaRoche, but personall im not comfortable with Casey Kotchman as our 1B, and having Chone Figgans leading off wouldn’t be bad, but i would rather have baldelli and his cheap contract instead, Morales is much better than kotchman and would be asked to hit 7th in this lineup, in my scenerio, the braves strongly Improve Starting Pitching and their Lineup, and improve for the future as well.