Braves

By Taylor

December 5, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this

thanks for the info!

By nb

December 5, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

Me gusta Gonzalez!

By Stu

December 5, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

Why are we trading LaRoche. Seems like the budget strings are being pulled together again. Young player, low salary has a breakout and the Braves fear that he’ll be too expensive to keep soon. Ridiculous. Surely a guy who can hit 30+HR at that wage is almost untouchable. We’ll be talking about dealing Francouer next!

By JV

December 5, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the update DOB. Like most, I really don’t want to trade LaRoche, but you have to part with something of value to get value in return and Gonzalez sure qualifies.

By Wayne

December 5, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

Dave,

This sounds like the same deal I heard and was excited about a few days ago. LaRoche for pitching/leadoff hitter and prep Salty eventually for the 1B job.

What can you tell us about Reitsma? I know lots of supposed Braves fans are not big Reitsma fans, but when healthy, he has been a good set-up man for us. WHADDYYAA think? Thanks for the updates!

By David from Athens, ALA

December 5, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this

Thanks … great update! I am sure JS will not make a trade just for the saking of trading … will check out the BLOG in another couple of hours

By David from Athens, ALA

December 5, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

Thanks .. great update! I am sure JS will not make a trade just for the saking of trading … if LaRoche is traded … I bet the talk about Chipper playing 1B will take over the BLOG!

By Barkow

December 5, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

I would love the trade of Gonzalez for LaRoche, hate to give him up but bullpen proved to lose the games for the braves not their hitting or fielding. With bullpen at full strength i can see them back at the top of the Division. Mets, cya later if we get Gonzo. Also fig and top reliever or starter for LaRoche and or Giles, would be fine as well, cant see moving hudson now and especially for a bust like sexson, thank god u said it first. Again id favor either deal, come on braves pull it out!!!!!!

By billy g

December 5, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

I would be in favor of trading Mike Hampton for a bag of donuts. He is a major budgetary headache and could stand in the way of an Andru Jones extension.

By Rosalynn

December 5, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

Well, with Adam LaRoche gone that should open up fihst base foah Brian Jawdan. That boy learned how to play some fihst base last yeah and now it is goin’ to pay off! Imagine the presence he will contribute ovah theah by first base! Jimma and I have seats ovah theah and we think Brian will do just fine with a little coachin’ from Jimma.

By Lew

December 5, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

Stu-It has nothing whatsoever to do with LaRoche getting expensive in the future. It has to do with what we can get in return and who people would be willing to give up what we want for. Besides, Thorman is still rated the Braves 5th highest prospect and could fill in quite nicely (maybe not 30 HR, but maybe so, too). No need to discuss Chipper at first and Salty, either. The Braves have Kala Ka’aihue waiting in the minors, about on the same track as Salty (who they have not had play first), who is being compared favorably to Gallaraga and led the Braves organinzation in HR.

By JC FROM UT

December 5, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

I do not understand why anyone would be opposed to trading Adam, especially if the return is a dominant, hard throwing left handed reliever. I remeber reading sometime before the All Star break how JS should trade AL for anything he could get. Thorman may not be as refined defensively and may not have as sweet a swing, but he has a lot more hustle and brings a little fire to the team. DOB: If this deal does not go through and JS turns to the Angels, how about Dallas McPherson insted of Kotchman, I believe he has much more power and plays 3RD base and this could enable Chipper to move to 1B. Another thing what are the other teams besides SD who have shown interest in Giles?

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Great stuff.

However, most of the time new info is always anti-climatic and this only wets the appetite.

By J-MAN

December 5, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

David from Athens, ALA your right the blog would be overrun by people posting Chipper at 1st Base and for good reason but I still think that he’ll stay at 3rd. Nowif you trade Laroach for Gonzo do you put Salty at 1st or do you try to make a deal possibly ala Giles and Hudson for Adam Dunn and Ryan Freel, or Giles/Huddy for Roberts and Penn or Salty and Giles for Dunn then throw Hudson for Roberts and another prospect and what about the Angles rumors. D.O.B., lets us know the latest because I’m hooked, I’m waiting for conformation.

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 5, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

Interesting stuff, DOB. Thanks for the update!

Gonzalez certainly would cement the closer’s role post-Wick, barring injury or anything unforseen. I’d hate to see anyone go, however that’s the only way we’re going to plug holes in the hot stove league this year.

By Lew

December 5, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this

People-Chipper is not going to play first. Does anyone remember the outfield fiasco and the injuries resulting from playing an unfamiliar position? Besides, there are other options without resorting to Brian Jordan. There will be no attempt to trade Hudson without getting another middle of the rotation pitcher at the very least.

By Bo

December 5, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB sounds good. Hope we come out with Gonz, Figgins, Roberts and pitcher. Maybe, we still have hope. God bless USA.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

I am not holding my breath about Gonzalez coming to Atlanta. The Pirates need a bat but getting the bat could be easier than replacing Gonzales.

Now, one trade I would pursue if I were JS is to approach the Yankees about Scott Proctor and Melkey Cabrera. The Yankees a need a defensive 1B (LaRoche) and a starter. LaRoche in Yankee Stadium is an almost guaranteed .280-.310 avg;40 Hr; 100 RBI. The Yanks would be getting their defensive 1B to keep Giambi’s no fielding behind in the DH role and as a plus its a defensive 1B who can hit for power and avg and who is cheap ($2.5 mil). Now, Hudson would be a trickier sale. However, the Yanks need another starter and it looks like they could miss out on the few big name starters there are. Hudson would have to be worth the risk because as it stands right now their rotation is average at best and it is definitely average when you look at what the Red Sox have. If I’m JS, I push hard to Cashman that Wang is young and may or may not duplicate last season, Pavano is obviously injury prone, Johnson is old and almost certain to miss 10 starts or so, and while Mussina was great last year he can’t do it alone. Yes, Hudson has been lackluster the last two years but is certain to regain form and is a better option than anything else they have right now. My biggest reason for getting rid of Hudson is salary. He will cost too much next year. Between Hudson and Hampton I would rather see Hampton go but nobody in their right mind is taking him and that contract.

The other trade I would pursue would either be with the Angels. As for the Angles, I would offer Giles and Ramirez for Figgins and Kelvim Escobar. Yes, Escobar makes a little cash but he is a good starter who eats up innings. Figgins obviously could play either 2B (assuming Melkey Cabrerra was acquired).

I realize this could be a bit far reaching but it is also doable. I understand that the Yanks don’t want to get rid of Cabrerra but they are going to have to give up something for a starter and they don’t have much in terms of trade bait.

By Maine Braves Fan

December 5, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this

I agree with J-MAN I am online 24-7 trying to find out if any trades went down. I think js will make a deal. I dont know if I like the baltimore deal. I say either go for the angels trade if that doesnt work go for pirates deal and if that doesnt work then go to baltimore. Last year everytime I saw Laroche come up to the plate I was like he is going to strick out so I say trade him while his stock is high so we can get more for him. I like scott thorman better anyways at first base. Lets make a deal braves.

By Maine Braves Fan

December 5, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

I dont know if I want to trade hudson. Say hampton goes down and you traded hudson who is going to pitch know. Save hudson for a mid0-season trade because you know andruw jones is going to walk so maybe next year trade hudson for a big bat.

By Carolina Lady

December 5, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

Thanks, DOB! We were getting worried; I thought we were going to have to send FBG out with bail money for you! (kidding, DOB, kidding!) Would love to hear the tales you could tell! :-))))

(My last 2 posts on the previous blog got messed up somehow and had a huge delay during which I thought the first had gotten ‘lost’, so I reposted as best I could remember the first - and both finally appeared. Such is life!)

Grinch, it ain’t got nothing to do with green. :-)))

By gotigers72

December 5, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

The trade for Gonzalez or Figgins would benefit the Braves IMO. Thorman is 2 years younger than LaRoche, will eventually hit for better average and power, and strike out less. He is also a much better baserunner than LaRoche. LaRoche is a magician with the glove around first, but Thorman may be good with the glove too. He is a first baseman by trade, but we have only seen him play in the outfield mostly.

Gonzalez’ stats as listed by DOB speak for themselves. Figgins would fit in as a leadoff guy. .336 OBP last year and better than that for his career. Runs like a deer, steals a lot of bases including 52 last year. Also had 62 RBIs. He has played outfield, so stick him in left and keep Marcus. Andruw can help cover any defensive deficiences until Figgins gets used to playing there.

Win-win for the Braves in either trade if you ask me.

By Heath

December 5, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Could BOTH the Pirates AND the Braves be asking for more that the other is willing to give up? With this current market, I can see how that could happen with two teams operating with tight purse strings.

Pittsburgh has a nice new park that LaRoche could hit plenty out of if the deal got done AND he is cheap. I can not imagine the Pirates not wanting to do it. They have been bad for so long, and a first baseman of LaRoche’s talent would really go a long way to helping them get back to their winning ways they used to enjoy. This would make even more sense FOR Pittsburgh when you look at how risky a pitcher’s career is…they are ALWAYS just ONE pitch away from their last. With the every day production that LaRoche provides, wouldn’t it be foolish for JS to be satisfied with ONLY a 1-for-1 swap? He has to get more than a relief pitcher, regardless of Gonzales’ pitching repertoire. Do you think that JS sees this and this could be what is holding up the deal?

Regarding Giles, best I can tell, the Padres are the ones holding up the Giles/Linebrink trade. They apparently are looking at other second basemen with hopes of not having to give up their setup guy. Supposing that the Gonzales/Laroche (hopefully with something else coming from Pittsburgh too) goes down, now what do the Braves do with Giles? Perhaps package him with Hudson for Starting pitching?…. Certainly talks with San Diego would end abruptly. If that happens, who else would want/need Giles that has something the Braves need… I can not imagine them using him for MORE relief help at that point. Thoughts?

By AZBravoFan

December 5, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

Gonzalez is certainly enticing. But wouldn’t they be better off pushing for the Giles-Linebrink deal and holding on to Rochy? Sure Thorman looked impressive at times last year, but I don’t think we could reasonable expect .280-30-100 out of him. Do you think Gonzalez is THAT much better than Linebrink? Or is this a sign that the Padres don’t want to deal so JS is looking elsewhere?

By Nathan (maybe I should just go by N8)

December 5, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best)

I agree with you about LaRoche in Yankee Stadium. He’s MADE to hit in that park. Not sure the Yankees fans would appreciate his occasional mental lapses, even though after the BIGGY in May (when he was on the meds), he seamed to be better. But man between the New Yawk fans and the media we may actually see LaRoche go into a full fledged Dick Vermiel crying session. LOL!

Lew, I agree with you (even though I posted the question on the other blog) about Chipper playing 1B. If we had a STUD (say Andy Marte, LOL!), then maybe, MAYBE JS asks Chipper to play 1B, but since Thorman is probably a better option at 1B than ANY of our prospects to play 3B are, then, like I said. I agree 100 percent with you that Chipper stays put. He’ll DEFINITELY be splitting his time next year between 3B and the DL! Not 1B and the DL. :)

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

I still dont think LaRoach is worth M. Gonzolez. We had a bad expereicne once with a small market closer before and that turned out very bad. If were looking for a closer of the future…only qeustion I have about htat is Devine. Are the Braves giving up on him that quick?

By Paul

December 5, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

The padres just gave a 1 year contract worth 10 million for a guy to pitch 5 innings.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this

ASBravofan, you wrote: “Do you think Gonzalez is THAT much better than Linebrink?”

In a word, yes. In another word: lefty. In another: Closer. And in two more: 96 mph.

There, that about covers it.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

Boras, by the way, just reiterated here _ Boras at Dark Star _ what he’s said all along: Andruw is going to spend the upcoming baseball season with Los Bravos.

“He’s made the decision he will play there during the 2007 season and see what direction the team goes,” Boras said. “Any talks will probably be after the season. Andruw has told me he’s staying in Atlanta for the 2007 season.”

By N8

December 5, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

Billy

We had a bad expereicne once with a small market closer before and that turned out very bad.

While I can’t argue with you. Kolb WAS A DISASTER. I think you owe Gonzalez an appology comparing him to Dan Kolb. LOL!

Dude throws mid to upper 90’s on the gun. Kolb threw what 76 MPH fastball at best? (ok, not THAT bad, but….you get the point)

I’ve NEVER been a big fan of the finesse, sinkerball closers. Though it’s hard to argue with Trevor Hoffmans success (however he USED TO throw harder), nor Wickmans. But were talking about two saavy veterans that KNOW how to throw strikes and not get behind. Never was real fond of McMichael.

Having said that, I too share “a little” bit of your concern about a guy coming from a NO PRESSURE situation in Pittsburg to Atlanta. Then again, we did finish 79-83 last year and DIDN’T make the playoffs. What does he have ot LIVE UP TO? LOL!

The other factor is that Wickman will still be the closer. So for him (Gonzalez) to be the 8th inning guy shouldn’t be that big of a deal. Just as long as he doesn’t feel “slighted” by the demotion from closer to set-up guy.

DOB

I actually am one of the (probable) few people that has an ever so slight hope that Reitsma will return to his strong set-up roll with a clean bill of health. Not sure why I’m so confident in him, as opposed to Hudson (Sorry KC), but call it a gut feeling. Again, I think getting him out of the pressure cooker of being a closer, will help him. It can’t possibly get ANY worse for him, can it? Plus, I’m assuming he’s gonna come REAL CHEAP if the Braves are interested. If he was hurt last year (verdict is still out on that conspiracy theory?), Bobby more than likely hasn’t lost confidence in him, to revert to his old self. After all, the guy was THE best set-up guy in the NL with the Reds a few years back, or at least one of the best, wasn’t he?

By Tomahawkin

December 5, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

Billy “I still dont think LaRoach is worth M. Gonzolez. We had a bad expereicne once with a small market closer before and that turned out very bad.” Gotta agree wit ya on that one…I’d rather see Figgins and Shields…Especially since LaRoche is Young…and hasn’t hit his prime yet…

By N8

December 5, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

Paul

I’ll assume that Maddux just inked with the Padres.

That does seem a little insane, doesn’t it? But let’s not forget the “impact” as a leader/teacher for the young Padres pitchers that he’ll have sitting on that bench on the days he’s not pitching. Just like Glavine would’ve been a great influence/mentor for Chuck James. Imagine what Maddux could do for a young Kyle Davies. Maybe I’m looking into the whole lefty/righty comparison to much. But I firmly believe that having a pitcher that throws with the same arm and STYLE as a younger guy on the staff, goes a LONG way into helping the kid develop.

Like it or not, we probably owe a LOT of Tom Glavines success to the precence of Charlie Leibrandt in the early 90’s. More than likely Tom was going to end up “doing ok” in his career, but having a veteran with the same approach couldn’t have hurt at all.

Smoltz is a great leader and mentor for the kids and seams like he is a very approachable guy on the bench. But the bottom line is, he’s the ONLY flame thrower that they have EVER had for any length of time. Yeah, Schimdt, Marquis, Wright, and even Sosa threw hard, but they didn’t stick around long enought to “harness” their abilities, IMO. I suppose Millwood could fall into that category, but EVEN he fell into the LEO “throwing at 85-90 percent velocity with good location” trap towards his final days in a Braves uniform. Millwood was throwing 96-97 MPH when he first came up, where did that velocity go? Imagine how, different Steve Avery would’ve been, had they convinced him to drop 4-5 MHP off of his fastball. Then again, maybe he’d still be playing, who knows?

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this

Man, now I know why I usually go in the early afternoon; that place was crowded (though all the hotties were out). CL, you may be the first woman in the history of the world to say it has nothing to do with green…you must be one of those diamonds only types. :-)

I really like LaRoche and I still think his best days are in front of him, but Gonzalez would be intriguing. Who replaces the power, though? I seriously doubt Thorman knocks in 80-100 next year.

Nathan, I agree about Jeter and A-Rod; that would be like watching Paris and Nicole fight. I’d pay 39.95 to see it no doubt. We could all pass the hat on that and a keg and watch it over here; that would be a hell of an evening. Who would be on the undercard, though? I say Boy George and the dude/chick/whatever from “Dead or Alive” for the “Washed up incredibly gay early 80’s top 40 frontperson” title. George Micheal could be the color comentator.

By TD

December 5, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t this make about the 5th year in a row the Braves have been trying to secure a closer? Of course, I could go back to Wohlers throwing a hanging slider to Leyritz twice in 96. Since he didn’t connect on the first one, Wohlers let him have another chance. And didn’t JS say he was comfortable with the pitching staff going into spring training last year? The Braves want a lot of things, but this is one area where they consistently come up short.

By Mark

December 5, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this

You would be a fool to dump Laroach and Giles..at the same time then..i guess it would be no hit braves and no pitch braves..God AOl please sell the Braves so we can compete in league again

By Tomahawkin

December 5, 2006 08:04 PM | Link to this

Damn…A lot of New cats up in here…

D.O.B. Did you watch any on the Billboard awards last nite?

Personally I can’t stand to watch any of that crap, never have, never will

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 08:06 PM | Link to this

The only time I saw Kolb live was a 2-0 Braves win. Smoltz pitched 8 solid and Kolb came in for a perfect 9th with 2 strikeouts. Wish I had videotaped it. His intro was pretty cool. Oh, well. Innate, don’t you dare sully this fine blog again by using thr “R” word. :-)

By Paul

December 5, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this

Hey Dave,

When you say Dark Star, do you mean the Dead’s Dark Star? Did Bob Weir build a hotel in Orlando?

By AZBravoFan

December 5, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this

Yes, I think that about covers it. Do you think Thorman can handle 1B every day, or would they seek at least a right-handed bat to share with him for a while?

By JC FROM UT

December 5, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

DOB: Do you think there is any way to expand the trade of Gonzo/LaRoache to include Joey Devine for Chris Duffy? In an earlier post I mentioned CJ moving to 1B, but after further thought, I think Salty will probably be taking the next steps this season to learing the position at AAA.

By Ray Goof

December 5, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

DOB…I remember a few years back early in the Hampton contract the Braves claimed their payroll was at $80 despite the fact they weren’t actually spending that much on their players that year. They were instead averaging Hampton’s contract out over the entire remainder of it and adding that in to all the years.

If my memory is correct on that then they would (or should) continue with that averaging out next year and take several million dollars off of his contract as far as how much the club is actually spending next year for Hampton if they have already put several million aside in previous years.

Do you know if I’m correct on that, and how is that going to work from here out over the next few seasons?

By Dane

December 5, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

Throw in Marcus with LaRoche and try to get a Jose Castillo with Gonzalez.

By Wayne

December 5, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this

LaRoche for Gonzo AND Duffy. If we gotta throw in either Paronto or Cormier, let’s make it happen. Duffy would be in place of Figgins. Then, send Giles and HoRam to Texas for that old reliever dude (Otsaki or something like that). Keep Hudson and roll the dice. Invite Reitsma back at a discount, then SIT Andruw’s butt on the bench if we fall out of it, unless he agrees to resign. Let’s see how that helps his “leap” year numbers. (sorry, but I couldn’t resist!) Take that, Scott Boras!!!

By Tomahawkin

December 5, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this

Has anyone just hear of this deal that just took place according to ESPN “Four-time Cy Young ace Greg Maddux is joining the Padres and right fielder J.D. Drew is headed to Boston as the Dodgers lost two stars on Tuesday. Maddux agreed to a one-year, $10M deal and Drew’s is five-years, $70M”?

By Carolina Lady

December 5, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

Now, Grinch! Just responding to your post on the last blog. Road trip? Prejudiced against green people? :-)))

Nope, diamonds not required! I have a very small diamond pendant my mother gave me way back when I graduated from high school; that’s the only one I have. :-)

(My responding posts got messed up on that blog so things got out of sequence.)

By NCBravesFan

December 5, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Geez! If true, Maddux at 1yr/$10 mil is insane!

By Heath

December 5, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Think Andruw in LA would be a good fit?… (Dodgers, not Angels). Dodgers seem to be having and exodus of players, think they might be looking to make a splash now? Could they possibly make a trade and sign offer to the Braves/Andruw that could satisfy the Braves needs and change Andruw’s mind about staying in Atlanta? Seems to me the Braves could do a whole lot better if they could find a way to move him instead of the pieces that have been mentioned.

By NCBravesFan

December 5, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

Geez! If true, Maddux at 1yr/$10 mil is insane!

By Maine Braves fan

December 5, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB I am new to the ajc blog. I live in maine. Its hard to hear whats going on in atl. I want to know out of the possible trade rumors that we have heard today which one do you see happening?

By brian

December 5, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

the Braves should look at what Milwaukee got for Lyle Overby last year and ask more as LaRoche has much more power and is better defensively

By Tomahawkin

December 5, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

J.D. Screw and His agent (Boras) Just hustled the Red Sox into Paying him all dat money, I’d rather see him go to WhineBrenner…Sox got ripped off..

By Lew

December 5, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this

It’s doubtful they are going to move Salty to 1B. They have a kid at Myrtle Beach named Kala Ka’aihue. He is being compared to Andres Gallarraga. He led the Braves minor leagues in HR with 28 and RBI’s with 80. If I’m not mistaken, the stadium they play in is a pitcher’s park, too. The Braves have been reluctant to move Salty from catcher.

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

CL, I know what you were responding to. I just made a subtle twisting about of things so I could take a pot-shot at women and greed (no, I don’t think you’re a representative example). :-)

By JC FROM UT

December 5, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

If the LaRoach/Gonzales deal goes through how about continuing talks with LAA by sending Hudson for Figgins and Tony Saunders( a young left handed starter)This would also help LAA becouse now they can package one of their starters for Manny or turn around and send Hudson to NYY in a package for ARod. I really think JS needs to get rid of Hudson now, he will never live up to the salary he is going to get in 2008 and Atlanta will be stuck with an expensive mediocre starter.

By JC FROM UT

December 5, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

JS needs to contact Scott Boras now that JD Drew has signed and see if a deal can be worked out with the Dodgers. This may be what Boras was thinking all along when he told JD to opt out of his contract knowing that AJ wanted a warm weather area, plus he stays in the NL where he is familiar with the pitching. Any thought anyone? With AJ salary out of thew way maybe JS could get Derek Lowe and Matt Kemp.

By Maine Braves Fan

December 5, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB I am a recent new blogger from maine. I love reading yuor blogs. I have one Question for you. My question is that out of all the trade talks which trade porposal could happen if any? Its hard to live in maine and get braves info but when I read your blogs I get all the info so keep up the good work.

By C Daddy

December 5, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this

If there is anybody in this world I do not like, his name is Scott Bore-a*. He makes plaintiffs’ attorneys look good.

By MadduxRules

December 5, 2006 09:06 PM | Link to this

The loss of momentum could be huge…usually means not much gets done. Once momentum stalls, it takes a while to pick back up and then…the meetings are over. Hopefully things pick up again this evening. What do people think the odds are that the Braves make a trade to improve the team? A trade that we didn’t think would happen coming into the meetings? I thought it was about 80/20 this morning, but now I am thinking it is more like 50/50.

By jc

December 5, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

If you’re the Braves you’ve GOT to stick it out with Hudson. He was a marquee acquisition and still too young to give up on. He’s the type of player that could go elsewhere and make you look foolish. If you really analyze the 90s staff you’ll see that almost every year one if the Big Three had a mediocre season while the other two covered it up. Glavine had some awful second halves, one year in particular after he started the All-star game and got shelled. Smoltz had his famous 2-12 start. I still believe in Huddy. DOB just a thought: would a combination of,say, Thorman and Langerhans with possibly a prospect tossed in interest the Pirates for Gonzo? Just a thought since Andruw says (sorry for using this again) ” I will not be moved. Glory, glory, hallelujah I will not be moved.” Not that DOB would appreciate those lyrics…

By Tomahawkin

December 5, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

Never have liked Boras, from his early days when he screwed Philadelphia, for an unproven J.D. Screw…

By jc

December 5, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

Geez just read my own post. What a sacrilege. The great MIB actually said ”I SHALL not be moved. ”

By Dane

December 5, 2006 09:22 PM | Link to this

JS should just send Giles and Huddy to the Orioles for Roberts and Chris Ray. J.D. Drew only had one good year and that was when he was on the Bravos.

By brian

December 5, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this

the trade would be for Matt Kemp and the Dodgers top pitching prospect for Andruw Jones, but the Dodgers and Boras would have to agree to an extension before any trade will happen (10/5 and no team would give up anything of value unless they knew that they had Andruw locked up long term)

As far as LaRoche goes, seems like they should get a top young starter than a closer. I know how dominant Gonzalez can be, but I would prefer a starter or another everyday player (Figgins plus Kotchman). Then again I am not JS and have no idea what it is like to be the GM

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this

I wonder if the Pirates would be willing to trade Gonzales if the Braves included Devine. I mean for heaven’s sake, it is not like the Pirates are going to be competing for a playoff birth next year or the next three or four years for that matter. What is their deal about holding onto Gonzales? I have read that the Pirates’ GM likes to play hard ball with teams and then eventually the teams back off and no deal is made. I guess that would explain why the Pirates have finished 5th or 6th in the NL Central for the last 10 years.

By Calvin

December 5, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

I can’t see Thorman being the everyday 1B if LaRoche is traded. I don’t see that one happening.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 5, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this

I like the idea of the Figgins trade, but I’d prefer a pitcher to Kotchman as part of the deal. Thorman and Ward (if that signing gets done…Sturtze before Ward? Unbelievable.) at 1st while Salty develops.

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this

JC from UT, how much cash would we be sending along in that deal? They’d be nuts to trade Figgins for Hudson straight up, much less throw in a useable starter. Fan from Maine, Lew is the one you need to talk to about getting Braves info up that way; he’s in Vermont. Of course, you’d have to talk him into expressing his opinion, which he is notoriously reluctant to do. :-)

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this

Well, all I will say is I told you so about Andruw. Anyone who still thinks Andruw will be a Brave in 2008 needs to put down the “happy” stuff okay. It is not going to happen. The Braves have a better chance of getting Manny Ramirez or Alex Rodriguez than they do of signing Andruw. You wanna know why Boras is saying Andruw plans on staying a Brave for all of 2007? Because everyone knows that players in their walk years have historic and career years. Boras and Andruw envision him having a .290avg 50 HR 140+RBI season. Now, considering the contracts free agents this year have signed, what do you think Andruw could command on the open market next offseason especially with the like of Torri Hunter and Vernon Wells out and about? I see a possible 5yr/$100 mil deal on the table. I know I will hear the scoffing and laughing. I’ll be called an idiot. Really? Let the Red Sox not make the playoffs or somehow get beat in the playoffs by the Yankees. You don’t think the Sox would give him that kind of money to have an outfield of Ramirez, Jones, and Drew. C’mon. I guarantee you the Dodgers will be sniffing around. That is why they would be hesitant to make a deal for him now. Why make a deal for him now having to give up good players when they can have him next season and only give up a draft pick? Same with the Mets. What? Beltran won’t move to right or left? Please! How about the Rangers? Why do you think the Rangers are messing around trying to get the likes of a 38 year old Kenny Lofton? Because they know Andruw will be avaiable next year. Can you imagine Andruw hitting in that park in Arlington. Not to mention its warm just like Andruw likes it.

I said it in July and I’m saying it now. The Braves should have traded him before his 10/5 clause kicked in. The reality was they weren’t going to make the playoffs and trading Andurw could have brought something in return in the way of major league ready players and prospects. I understand the Red Sox weren’t giving up Lester but they had other top level prospects they would’ve likely given up. The Angles, Dodgers, and White Sox would have all listened to a deal. The Tigers and Cubs would have also listened. Both have an abundance of hitting and pitching prospects. I realize Andruw doesn’t like the cold but back in July JS didn’t have to care what he liked. Now, he does because Andruw can and will veto any deal. And if I hear one more person say, “Well, we’ll at least get a draft pick”, I will scream. Who cares? So, they’ll get a draft pick that may or may not work out and definitely won’t for another five or six years probably.

The Braves really missed the boat. And, yes, I understand that replacing Andruw’s production would have been very difficult. But, at least the freed up money would have given the Braves more flexibility to get some of the pitching they needed and the ability to better make the trades they seek. 2007 may have been a tough year but 2008 and beyond would be bright. Sometimes you have to look ahead into the future and not just tomorrow.

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

Robert(JITB), I think Devine’s probably not irreperably damaged and may even be benefitting from having no expectations now. Who knows, he and Startup may make up a pretty potent late inning bullpen combo a year or two from now. I’d be reluctant to part with too many relieving prospects if a position player will get the same return. Think Wainright. Just MO.

By Tomahawkin

December 5, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

Damn, It seems like most die-hard braves fans No longer live in the “A”

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 5, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

Nope, unless that “A” is Americus, Georgia.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 5, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

Startup’s numbers in the Winter League were abysmal.

By Adam

December 5, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

DO NOT TRADE LAROCHE. the Braves are making a huge mistake if they deal LaRoche.

By Heath

December 5, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

While the Giles, Laroche and Hudson deals are intriguing, I still believe that has to be some possibility that the Braves can find the right place for Andruw. If JS would just talk to Andruw and ask him where he wanted to play and what kind of contract he wanted from them, he should try to talk to those teams specifically and try to work something out. In fact, I think that the players in return should be less of a hang up that what may currently be in place. Andruw will not be affordable next year. If all they could get was just 1 or 2 high prospects and someone to take his salary for the year (starting pitching being the priority) that would be better than draft pick next year (whom you do not know for sure will turn out to be Major League quality, then I say the Braves should do it. The Braves are not dealing from a position of strength and they should alter their plan of attack slightly so that they do not miss out entirely.

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

Also, strong 9:51 post. I’ll still be happy to see him play here another season though; he’s my favorite Brave. Besides, Santa Claus may still buy the Braves at the last minute and give Boras what he wants to keep Druw here. You never know…

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 5, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

I like LaRoche at 1st, but from a GM’s perspective (particularly one with a budget) you have to move the players who will bring the most in return. Had Giles or Hudson had a better year, then LaRoche could be an “untouchable,” but that wasn’t the case.

By J-MAN

December 5, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this

This is my envisionment of next off-season :December 06, 2007, Former Atlanta Brave Centerfielder Andrew Jones has signed a 8 year 175 million dollar contract with the Boston Red Sox making him the second highest player in MLB history if you don’t belive me then see who his agent is and tell me he won’t get it, thats what they’re shooting for and I’d put my money that they’ll get it or should I say Boston’s money. And the Braves trim their pay-role another 15 million and are still waiting for the approvial of their sell to Liberity Media. A possible “Worst-Case Scenerio”.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 5, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this

What happened to James Jurries? I know he was injured at AAA, but did he recover from being passed over for Brian Jordan?

By Maine Braves Fan

December 5, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this

DOB I was reading that the baltimore rumor will not happen or lost its velocity and nothing will happen from it? Do you know any information on this story. I got it from MLBTRADERUMORS.com

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this

Adam, your last name isn’t LaRoche is it. I thought you spent your winters hunting.

Speaking of “huntin’”, isn’t funny how all of those people who were cracking their jokes and making desparaging remarks about Mr. LaRoche all of a sudden are in his corneer and don’t want him to go. Even at the end of the season there were people on here ripping him and reluctantly giving him his due. I’m a bit confused where all of this support is coming from. I have read some folks comments on here who have said Thorman is not the answer at 1B but not more than two months ago some of those very same people were saying Thorman is better than LaRoche. I’m confused?

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 5, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this

Moving LaRoche is inevitable because I’m thinking wrapping up McCann and Francoeur long term will be a priority.

By Terrance Moore

December 5, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

The Braves should sign Barry Bonds, Marquis Grissom, and David Justice.

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

GHF, he’s a Dawg, man; he’ll rebound.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the division-leading 2006 Atlanta Thrashers! Down 2-0 in Toronto (where they take their hockey seriously), the Thrash scored 5 unanswered in the final period to make it five in a row. They’re for real this year, folks. Now, time to see what the Hawks do (they’re playing the Sonics now).

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

wow, blog continues to pop…wonder where all the people came from. This is gotta be the most popular blog on the site.

I wonder if mabey we might be better off standing pat as other clubs seem to want an arm and an leg for what we have. As much as everyone likes C. Figgins, is he really worth LaRoach. I dont think so. Not staight up anyways.

What does surprise me is the Pirates reluctance to give up a closer…I mean you have to be ahead in games (consistantly) for the closer to mean anything..

By Maine Braves Fan

December 5, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

Robert I agree with you. I still dont like Laroche and I am frustrated with how he played even though he had a great second half I still say trade him while his stock is high. I cant stand him.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

Well, Heath, the problem is the Braves positioned themselves into a corner by not trading him in July at the deadline. I have a feeling right now that Andruw will not give JS any names of teams because he knows he can hold out and get a huge free agent contract. Now, he is playing with a fire a bit because if he gets hurt or does have an off year then that $18 or $19 mil a year he believes he can get won’t be there. So, that would be a reason for him to accept a trade. However, him not accepting any trades is a calculated risk that will likely work. Besides that JS is absolutely reluctant to trade him and I just don’t see why. The only reason I can see is that he firmly believes this team is playoff material, which at this point with the current roster I’m not sure. Way too many “what ifs” with this team. If everything works out like they hope (Hudson gets on track, Hampton comes back strong, Chipper stays healthy, James doesn’t have a sophomore slump, Francoeur matures, McCann keeps up his production, and the bullpen holds up) this team isn’t just a playoff team but a WS contender. However, that is a lot of questions with almost none of them having a certain answer now or when spring training breaks in April.

I will say this. If Andruw is to get traded then I don’t feel that LaRoche should go anywhere and I even have my doubts about Giles being traded. But, of course, Andruw isn’t going anywhere. He has all the power!

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best) Was thinking the same thing earlier today but forgot to post about that. LOL you dont hear no one bashing LaRoach anymore…It is funny.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 5, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

As someone said earlier, the Pirates organization seems to be run by buffoons. When was their last good season?…Oh, yeah…”BRAVES WIN! BRAVES WIN! BRAVES WIN!”

By Calvin

December 5, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

What a crazy free agent off-season…Julio Lugo just got a deal…4 yrs 36 mil. That’s nuts..

By rmf

December 5, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

DOB

I would love to see the Braves get Gonzalez, but why would Pitsburgh trade him? LaRoche is a good player with a lot of upside, but it seems to me it is easier to find a good first baseman than a left handed “flamethrower”. I do agree it is worthwhile to trade LaRoche if we get good pitching in return, but don’t understand why Pittsburgh would do this deal.

The comments on Andruw are on the mark. He will work out, lose some weight and have the season we have all been waiting for. He will then do what all Boras clients do: accept the highest bid from the most desperate owner. Boras would put him in Toronto if they offer the most money. The only hope we have of keeping him is if Andruw decides to call the shots and, even then, we would probably have to trade Hampton or Hudson (next year) if they have good years to trade him.

After reading about the Drew signing, I have concluded that Theo is way overrated.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this

The Red Sox are loading up and the Yankees are just sitting on their butts. This is making me very nervous. You haven’t heard anything form them. Hardly nothing? Why is that? What is the Evil Empire up to? Are they just hamstrung and in such a bind they don’t know what to do? Is Cashman an idiot and just lucky to have unlimited payroll at his disposal and now that he has all the power he is being exposed? Or is he truly a mastermind with a trick up his sleeve? I reiterate what I said earlier. JS should contact the Yankees about Hudson and see what they are willing to give up. Truthfully, at this point right now, the Red Sox have to be far and away the choice to win the AL East. Again, Yanks rotation is: Mussina, Johnson, Pavano, Wang, and whatever jackoff they can get to be a #5. The Red Sox rotation is: Schilling, Beckett, Paplebon, Clement, and Matszuaka (sp?). Hmmm? Who has the better rotation? Cashman, Hudson. That’s Tim Hudson.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

Folks, if Padilla, Lilly, et al are worth $10 mill or so a year, then Maddux is CERTAINLY worth that much or more. As someone pointed out, his influence on Peavy and others might be worth half that amount….

T-hawkin’, wouldn’t watch Billboard or American Music awards garbage if I only had one channel and it was on…

JC, you wrote: “DOB just a thought: would a combination of,say, Thorman and Langerhans with possibly a prospect tossed in interest the Pirates for Gonzo?”

Absolutely not….

Paul, no, not Dead’s Dark Star…

JC, you wrote: “Do you think there is any way to expand the trade of Gonzo/LaRoache to include Joey Devine for Chris Duffy?”

Answer: No. Pirates aren’t trading him, and would probably laugh if you suggested that particular trade….

Glass Half Full, you asked: “What happened to James Jurries? I know he was injured at AAA, but did he recover from being passed over for Brian Jordan?”

Even a Glass-Half-Full man will have a hard time spinning something positive out of the awful season Jurries had in Triple-A. At age 27, in his third season with Richmond, he did this:

.205 (63-for-307) with 8 HRs, 27 RBIs, 34 walks, 106 K and a .621 OPS in 89 games.

Just staggeringly bad. He was removed from the 40-man roster after the season….

RMF, right now they don’t want to trade Gonzalez. But if they do, it’d be because they’d want a guy who’s the same age as Gonzalez, with same three years in majors as Gonzalez, who hit .285 with 32 homers and 90 RBIs last season despite batting 6th or lower in the order for most of the season.

A guy who might hit .290-.300 with 40 homers and 110 RBIs in his first season at Pittsburgh, where the right-field fence is 320 feet away and LaRoche’s tape-measure homers would reach the river.

By doug

December 5, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

Superstars have super years in their contract year. Stop whining about not trading Andruw early enough. Get the pieces in place and ride Andruw all the way to the end. The Braves could have made the playoffs last year with a healthy Chipper (that may be dreaming, he may never play more than 120 games in a year again) and a Wickman at the start of the season. Pull off the Gonzalez deal and the rotation will look even better. There are few guarantees, but I guarantee Andruw will play HUGE to get that HUGE contract. Strengthen the bullpen and it may be enough to get us deep into the postseason.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this

Oh, and that guy might also win a Gold Glove at 1B someday. Legit.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

Well, Ken Rosenthal just confirmed what I said about the Rangers. He said the Rangers are attempting to sign Lofton as a stop gap for 2007 so they can go after Andruw, Torri Hunter, or Vernon Wells next offseason.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

Doug, you’re right to a point. That is for this year (2007). But, what about the future. You can’t always look to the here and now. If you’re the Yankees or Red Sox you can do that because they have the money. The Braves aren’t in that class any more. They have act more like the A’s and Twins. You want to know why those teams are successful? They look at the big picture. They look two, three, and four years down the road. And not to mention that there is no doubt Andruw will have an explosive year. But, so what? The Braves need better pitching. Not offense. The offense could be more balanced because I think their run production numbers are a bit skewed. However, as the team is currently constructed, they will win games but will have a very tough time beating out the Phillies, Mets, and Marlins for the NL East crown. It became evident that the closer’s role was not the only problem. It does no good to have a closer when you have starters that can’t get out of the 5th inning or relievers who can’t hold ties and leads.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

Hey this might be interesting to some

http://braves.scout.com/2/597932.html?refid=400

Pretty bland to me…JS sounds like a politician sometimes…

By MEB

December 5, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this

Trading Chipper’s hunting buddy is a mistake. Trading a potential all star first baseman for a set-up man may make some business sense but not good baseball sense.

Grinch… I’m with ya on the Thrashers but dang the Hawks are tough love. Definitely some potential this year but some work to do tonight against the Sonics.

By rmf

December 6, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

DOB —- Thanks. If you run into Dave Littlefield tomorrow, please explain it to him too.

Also, in your opinion, which is the better deal: Giles to SD for Linebrink or LaRoche to Pitt for Gonzalez?

By Drummerdad

December 6, 2006 12:08 AM | Link to this

I’ve come to like LaRoache. Would miss him. But you gotta do what you gotta do. After all the conjecture and speculation I’ve read in here and other places I’ll venture a stupid trade idea just for the fun of it. We get Andruw to agree to a trade to the Dodgers. Include Tim Hudson in the package. In return, they give us Furcal back and Derek Lowe. We move Edgar to second base. We then send Giles, Davies, and Ramirez to Pittsburgh for Gonzalez. ha!

By N8

December 6, 2006 12:14 AM | Link to this

rmf

You asked:

“Also, in your opinion, which is the better deal: Giles to SD for Linebrink or LaRoche to Pitt for Gonzalez?”

How about BOTH? Make most of our games 6 inning affairs. Sounds like the 96 Yankees to me, with Wettland, Rivera (often for two innings) and Lloyd. With the age (Smoltz) and possible lack of stamina (Hampton & Hudson) on our staff I think it’s a must. Plus you throw McBride and Boyer into the mix. Now we’re talkin’ about a bullpen.

Where will the offense come from, you may ask. I’m sure some if not most of it would be made up. Thorman may not hit 32 HR and knock in 90 runs, but I don’t think 15-20 HR and 75 RBI is out of line to expect. As for Giles’ production. I think with the down year (at least the beginning) he had, it shouldn’t be too hard to replace most of his numbers either. Now replacing his grit and fire, along with LaRoches defense (DOB is dead on - the man will win a few gold gloves before his playing days are over).

I say go ALL bullpen and pitching. Let the Offense take care of itself. Besides, one would expect McCann and Francoeur in their 3rd seasons to make up for a little of the offensive numbers.

By The Stranger

December 6, 2006 12:18 AM | Link to this

DOB-

Incredibly, you and a handfull of other Man in Black denizens here actually had to defend Rochy for much of the 2006 quagmire.

Knowing how important the Roche is to this team both on the field and in the clubhouse, and also remembering the blindingly sharp eye-pain from every blown save last season, is this a trade you would make?

Appreciate the Hot Stove updates - you are without question the hardest working man in show business.

By bill c.

December 6, 2006 01:05 AM | Link to this

Has anyone considered the value of buying the 150 million contract of Michael Vick from the Falcon’s and using him as a pinch runner for the Braves ? It might not help the Braves but it sure would make the Falcons a better team ! Smile…. Seriously, I think the Braves have got to find a solid lead off hitter. Salaries would need to be adjusted for other players who want more than they are worth, and for the players not getting what they are worth. I just don’t think I’d be motivated to play baseball on a team that paid me thousands for working my butt off while paying millions to my team mate that had the talent but no motivation to play hard. Forgive me for saying so, but I’m just one of those folks who feel like baseball has paid its way out of the national past time. The kids in the minors are much more exciting to watch play! That’s just my humble opinion, what’s your’s ?

By Martin M.

December 6, 2006 02:07 AM | Link to this

DOB - If the Braves do acquire Mike Gonzalez and ship LaRoche to the Pirates, do you think its possible they still can try to trade a player or two for Chone Figgins from the Angels afterwards?

By berigan

December 6, 2006 02:15 AM | Link to this

Well, one thing that worry’s me is that if we trade LaRoche, and then lose Andruw either this(meaning 2007) or next year, that’s a LOT of offensive loss. And would make the lack of a true leadoff hitter more pronounced. Astros had lots of pitching last year, and little offense, where did it get them???

By The Grinch

December 6, 2006 02:54 AM | Link to this

Thank you, berigan, for reiterating what I’ve been saying the last two days (2:15 post). Of course, no-one gives a %$#@ what I think, but your opinion carries some weight.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 6, 2006 03:13 AM | Link to this

To me I trust JS to do whatever he has to do to improve our team for now and the future.

DOB, you you also go by Larry O’Brien? On the site rotoworld.com they have sited you for a source of information from your articles here on the AJC but refer to you as Larry O’Brien.

Also what about this time next season? Isn’t Smoltz’s contract up? Seems like he could make 17-19 million a year in this market.

By ernesto

December 6, 2006 04:19 AM | Link to this

$9 mil a year for Julio Lugo and his .278 career batting average? That’s a.278 average leading off for you. I wonder if the Sox weep nightly over giving up on Edgar. Thanks Boston.

By bravesfaninbaltimore

December 6, 2006 06:16 AM | Link to this

Do not pick up Roberts. I live in Baltimore. Roberts maybe popular, but he is viewed as a bad lead off hitter who doesn’t work the count or look to keep the ball on the ground. We all say he has “Brady Anderson” (“scoop of vanilla, scoop of chocolate”) syndrom after Roberts big home run year. Anderson had 50 one year and swung for the fences every year after that. Roberts is no different (same for Furcal).

By Plate Appearance

December 6, 2006 07:22 AM | Link to this

JS, please do the fans in Atlanta and beyond a huge favor and don’t trade Adam LaRoche. He’s the future of the Braves, as much so as McCann and Francoeur — especially when there’s a danger of losing Andruw and his power numbers to free agency next year. ¶ As for Chone Figgins, I’d much rather see the Braves keep Giles. There’s much to be said for loyalty and team cohesion. No, definitely not Chone Figgins. If you must trade Giles for pitching, why not use the hot hitting Escobar — and try him at lead off? Who’s to say he’s not ready? Didn’t you bring Francoeur up earlier than anticipated? ¶ As to trading LaRoche for pitching, I’ve heard Tim McCarver and other well respected analysts talk about never trading a day to day position player for pitching. ¶ But again, I implore you, DON’T TRADE LAROCHE!! HE’S A FAN FAVORITE!

By NCBravesFan

December 6, 2006 07:22 AM | Link to this

To follow up on Berigan’s 2:15 post … I get a little queasy thinking about the loss of both LaRoche and Giles without getting a proven run-producer in exchange. To me, the swing guy if this scenario unfolds is Franceour - he’s got to really step up next year and become a more consistent threat in the lineup. DOB - any chance the Braves could throw in one of their young bullpen arms with LaRoche to swing the Gonzalez trade?

By Trader E

December 6, 2006 07:54 AM | Link to this

DOB I posted a similar trade idea (I’ve had some more time to think about it and I’ve modified some of the trades) in a previous ajc blog and would like to get your thoughts:

I’m not opposed to trading anyone on the 40 man roster that can make our team better. Having said that, trading McCann or Francoeur will not make our team better so they are untouchable. Everyone else should be fair game.

I propose we trade Andruw and Kelly Johnson to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp, James Loney, and Scott Elbert (one of the top lefty pitching prospects in baseball).

Trade LaRoache to the Pirates for Mike Gonzalez (I think the Pirates will relent and trade him).

Trade Giles and Diaz to whoever will take them for some decent bullpen help.

Package Scott Elbert, Kyle Davies or Chuck James, and Salty to the D-Rays for Carl Crawford.

The 2007 line-up would look like this:

Crawford (CF) Renteria (SS) Chipper (3B…until he gets hurt) McCann (C) Francoeur (RF) Kemp (LF) Loney (1B) Prado (2B)

Starters: Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James/Davies, HoRam

Bullpen: Wickman, Gonzalez, McBride, Boyer, Yates, Paranto, Villareal, (Acquired by Trade)

Bench: Brian Pena, Orr, Langerhans, Thorman, Ward

I realize that is 26, but you can count on Yates, Paranto, or Villareal crapping the bed in spring training and not making the final 25 man roster.

I’m making a lot of assumptions in regards to the Andruw trade (i.e. Andruw agreeing to waive his no trade clause to play with Furcal, Dodgers and Andruw agreeing to a $$$$$$ extension, and the Dodgers being willing to trade three young and very promising players), but I think it could be done. All of the other trades could work out well for each team, seem reasonable, and make sense (in my mind).

Sorry for the long post…your thoughts DOB?

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 08:01 AM | Link to this

DOB, you you also go by Larry O’Brien? On the site rotoworld.com they have sited you for a source of information from your articles here on the AJC but refer to you as Larry O’Brien.

(Only if the price is right. That site is paying me to go under a name of their choosing….)

Also what about this time next season? Isn’t Smoltz’s contract up? Seems like he could make 17-19 million a year in this market.

(You’re getting ahead of yourself, or ourselves. Please, must we have that conversation today? No. I can’t. Please god, no…. But in answer to your question, no, he won’t get that. Not at his age. Look at Glavine and Maddux. Smoltz’s numbers weren’t THAT much better than theirs, not to get nearly double what they’re getting at nearly the same age.)

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 08:05 AM | Link to this

Martin writes: “If the Braves do acquire Mike Gonzalez and ship LaRoche to the Pirates, do you think its possible they still can try to trade a player or two for Chone Figgins from the Angels afterwards?”

I don’t think so. Because Angels have targeted LaRoche’s “big bat” to help them out. Don’t know that Braves have anything else they’re peddling that can really help Angels enough to give up Figgins. Except maybe Reitsma and B.J….

(kidding)

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 08:08 AM | Link to this

BravesFaninB’more wrote: Do not pick up Roberts. I live in Baltimore. Roberts maybe popular, but he is viewed as a bad lead off hitter who doesn’t work the count or look to keep the ball on the ground. We all say he has “Brady Anderson” (“scoop of vanilla, scoop of chocolate”) syndrome…

TAKEN UNDER ADVISEMENT, SIR. CAN YOU IMAGINE TODAY when I run into Schuerholz: “John, regarding Roberts … have you heard of the “scoop of vanilla, scoop of chocolate syndrome?”…

That’d be classic.

By Voice of Reason

December 6, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this

Good morning, DOB, or LOB, as the case may be…

I’m putting the Braves on my prayer list this morning. I really feel that they must come away from these meetings having made some improvement to the team. Moves such as mentioned about Gonzalez, Figgins, Linebrink, Freel, etc. are critical to a successful 2007. We can’t stop at Tanyon Sturtze, just can’t!

Is it possible that after many years of watching JS make tremendous deals on the side of ATL, that other GM’s are tentative, even cautious, about dealing with him? Could that be why they often seem to approach the edge of consumation only to hit the brakes? (It’s the ghost of Charles Thomas haunting the winter meetings…)

By Glass Half Full

December 6, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

Any indication of what the Padres may want in addition to Giles for Linebrink? Any names being cast around?

By Shaun

December 6, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Good point about LaRoche: 90 RBI that low in the order is pretty impressive.

By BB FAN

December 6, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best),

Keeping Andruw was not a bad move. First, they obviously would not have been able to get fair value and would have lost his production for half of ‘06 and all of ‘07. There were no teams willing to part with young top of the rotation pitchers or Young power hitters. Coco Crisp and Craig Hanson from Boston would not have been worth it.

If the Braves, by chance (slim chance), are able to sign him beyond 2007, great. If not, they will have him during his walk year (2007) which likely will be the best offensive season of his career.

If he leaves, yes all the Braves get will be 2 additional draft picks (1 from the team that signs him and 1 supplamental pick). However, they will also have his $13.5 million to sign a replacement. Wells and Hunter will likely make less than Andruw. Maybe one of them? They could go after a RF and move Francoeur to CF? Or they could go after better pitching? Who knows but they would have the extra $13.5 mill to decide.

By Shaun

December 6, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

BravesFaninB’more,

I agree the Braves shouldn’t give up a lot to get Roberts, but he has a career .345 OBP and averages 33 steals a year. He’s no Rickey Henderson, but he’s certainly not a bad hitter/leadoff hitter.

By Carroll

December 6, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

DOB: you know that I am not a huge Roach fan, but even I recognize that trading him for anything other than solid pitching (such as Mike Gonzo) would be a mistake. Just can’t trade that much young, cheap, steady talent for a guy like Figgins or Roberts. Glad to hear that those rumors have been poo-pooed.

By Haywood Jablome

December 6, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Leave it to Peter Angelos to F-up that deal. This knucklehead can never seem to get out of his own way when it comes to baseball decisions! Have fun in fourth place next year, Stupid!

By Alan

December 6, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

DOB, what about the Pirates’ leadoff hitter, Jose Castillo? (Not sure of his first name, but I think that’s it - which proves how anonymous most players are in Pittsburgh.) I read somewhere recently that the Pirates are peddling him, too. What if LaRoche and Giles were traded for Gonzales and Castillo? As I recall, Castillo is very good defensively and a fast runner. Also, if the Pirates do balk at dealing Gonzales, how about considering Zach Duke? He was terrific in ‘05 - not so good at the beginning of ‘06, but I believe he rebounded in the second half.

By KC

December 6, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

Alright DOB, tell us something new!!! Make something up if you have to. ;)

What’s the scoop man????

By Shaun

December 6, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

Voice of Reason,

I think even if the Braves don’t/can’t do too much, they are still in a good position.

And I think it’s just hard to make moves these days mostly because GM’s have gotten a little smarter—they realize that it’s usually unwise to trade quality young talent for expensive proven veterans. And everyone is looking for the same thing: fairly cheap quality pitching.

By krath

December 6, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

I was a LaRoache doubter. Last season swayed me toward his side. I think the guy will be a legit-solid major leaguer before his career is through. I do still have some concerns over his ability to be consistent. His swing is very timing dependent (so is everyones’ but that long swing has more margin for timing errors) and if his timing is off a bit….. he can look pretty pitiful sometimes.

Laroaches numbers DEMAND a good return. To me, Figgins in a Adam deal makes no sense if the Angels won’t include pitching….and not just a prospect. The Orioles deal (which is dead is seems) made no sense either to include Laroache. Roberts for Giles was a wash and Laroache for Penn was nuts!

In my opinion, the only deal that has been bandied about that makes sense for the Braves would be Adam for Gonzalas. I could live with that. Gonazlas impressed me mightily when I saw him pitch against the Braves. The guy definitely has closer stuff and is nasty….. Billy Wagner (in his prime) nasty in my opinion.

I’ll be really disappointed if Adam goes to anyone for less than a major league ready pitcher with lights out stuff.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

DOB-Maybe I’m missing something here, but what’s the big deal about Brian Roberts? Or, for that matter, the whole Baltimore deal? Roberts is no better a hitter than Marcus and he certainly can’t be a better fielding 2nd baseman, because Marcus is one of the best. The pitcher everyone’s been talking about is no great shakes, either (at least not yet and maybe not for years). Why bother with this whole scenario? Roberts made as much as Marcus last year and is, apparently, arbitration eligible. I don’t see that big a savings with Roberts. I think we can do much better than this deal. Also, as someone mentioned earlier, Angelos never has had a clue about putting a team together. I’m not sure I would even consider dealing with these people. As far as trading LaRoche, apparently people don’t realize that we have pipeline options for first base already available (Thorman) or coming up in the next couple of years (Ka’aihue). Yes, losing his power would hurt momentarily, but he is hardly irreplaceable. As far as someone earlier contended about him being a fan favorite-Have you been following the Braves the past year? He has been one of the most maligned players on the team (but not by me).

By KC

December 6, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

krath: I don’t think you have to worry. I think JS has made it pretty clear that a leadoff hitter is not a high priority, so I can’t picture them parting with LaRoche to get one.

IF in fact LaRoche is truly available, I suspect that he’s only available in return for a top-quality arm or two.

Can a leadoff hitter bring as much to this offense as a guy who is coming off an excellent season and is capable of 30-40 HR, 100 RBI, while hitting for a good average??? Maybe… if that leadoff hitter’s first name is Ichiro.

By krath

December 6, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

KC…. hope you’re right about that.

Why can’t I ever remember how to spell LaRoche’s name? I always throw an “a” in the middle. Sorry about that.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

Krath-Hey Dude-Have you checked out Cactus yet? I got two Rockets cd’s, both with McCarty and Bedanjek. The first, Talking Back is not very good. There is another guitarist with McC and another drummer who also produces the album. It sounds like a bunch of Huey Lewis wannabes with no sax. The second, however, RocketRoll is much better. The other guitarist is gone as well as the drummer. It is produced by the band. Very Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee, Little Richard type rock and roll with a somewhat harder edge. It’s more commercial than Caxctus, but pretty good and enjoyable. It is more a band whereas Cactus was more a musical pi$$ing contest. I’m sure you know what I mean. I’m impressed that you got to jam with these guys. You must be pretty decent.

By Where are all the Roachy Jokes Now?

December 6, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

Chipper and LaRoche are out huntin’ and LaRoche shoots a really nice deer. Chipper comes over and helps him gut it and they begin the long drag back to the truck. They are realy getting a work out when another hunter stops by and admires the deer LaRoche shot. He says, “Say Adam that is a really nice buck you shot. It might be easier however if you each took an antler and a front leg rather then trying to drag it by the 2 back legs. If you go with the grain of the fur it will drag easier.” LaRoche and Chipper thank the hunter and begin dragging the deer off - each holding a front leg and an antler. LaRoche turns to Chipper and says, “He sure was right, this deer is draggin much beter when we pull it by the front legs an antlers. Chipper nods in agreement and adds, “Sure does Roachy, but we are gettin further and further from the uh, truck.”

By braves1us

December 6, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

DOB - There’s a hot rumor flying in the Pacific Northwest that a deal is in the works that would send Richie Sexon from Seattle to San Francisco… Rafael Soriano and Armando Benitez to Atlanta and Hudson and LaRoche to Seattle. Have you heard this, and is there any legs to it?

By Ripme

December 6, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

Just heard that D-Rays are talking to Braves about LaRoche. The Braves want Cantu 2b and Baldelli cf. Why not Crawford?

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

a wise gm like “homeboy” will not say, “i must have a leadoff hitter” if he is looking for a leadoff hitter. that would make other gm’s wise to homeboy’s plans and perhaps offer them an advantage in negotiations. so, homeboy will merely say, “we’re looking to improve the team and to add lots of pitching.” everyone is looking to do that. homeboy is wise in the ways of negotiation. when the whole story comes out (he must write another book soon) it will reveal that he was in control of the glavine matter all along. now, how did little richard find his way into this blog? perhaps little richard can play second base and leadoff. imagine little richard a huntin’ with chipper and laroche. slippin’ and slidin’. oh, the humanity!

By krath

December 6, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Lew ya know I still haven’t listened to the lastest Cactus yet. It’s on my “to do” list but seems like I only work, go home, go to bed. I need to put some music time aside to catch up on some stuff.

Actually I don’t think I suck as a musician lol But the fact is, there has always been two musical pools here in my area ,musicians who don’t suck and those who do! lol The “don’t suck” musicians usually gravitate toward each other and the ones who suck usually team up. Since I’m in the “don’t suck” group, I’ve had an opportunity to play with some really fine talent here. It’s kinda like the six degrees of separation thing. I’ve played with folks who have played with lots of big names.

By Voice of Reason

December 6, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

I’m reading from a number of sources this morning that the LaRoche/Gonzalez deal is imminent. Basically, once word got out that LaRoche was available, a number of teams began making inquiries. JS, using due diligence, is taking his time sifting through numerous proposals looking for the best deal; however, the Pittsburgh deal seems likely. Take that for what you will, but it was reported that way in various newspapers this morning.

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

Ripme, probably because Baldelli can provide more sock (Baldelli also makes more than Crawford, and so might be more trade-attractive to Rays). But it’s hard to imagine making that trade (no pitching involved) unless there’s something else close that would return pitching in the form of another trade.

By Glass Half Full

December 6, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

How about including Xavier Nady in the Pirates deal? He can split time in the outfield and at 1st?

By KC

December 6, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

braves1us:

I’m sure the Braves would have interest in Rafael Soriano, but I don’t think they would give up too much to get him. He was great this season, but over the last 2 years combined (04, 05), he pitched in only 13 games… so I’m guessing he’s injury prone.

As for Benitez… he would not be an upgrade on Bob Wickman, plus he’s more expensive. Over the past 2 seasons:

• Wickman has posted a 2.56 ERA while converting 78 of 87 save opportunities. (He’ll make 6 million next season).

• Benitez has posted a 3.96 ERA while converting 36 of 48 save opportunities. (He’ll earn 7.5 million next year).

Benitez could be used as a setup man, but that makes R.Soriano unnecessary, and surely no one thinks the Braves are going to pay 7.5 million this year to their setup man!

Pay no attention to that rumor. It makes zero sense.

By KC

December 6, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

VOR: what (specifically) are your sources on that LaRoche for Gonzalez thing?

By Lew

December 6, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

Braves1US-I sure hope not. That’s way too much to give up for two mid-level relievers. That is not even remotely an equitable deal. Neither reliever is close to Gonzalez and JS is trying to trade LaRoche straight up for him.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

Glass-If JS is trying for Gonzalez for Roachy straight up, why would they include Nady? Who else would you include? Esteemed Journalist-You should have mail. What’s wrong? You don’t like Mr. Penniman? Whooooo-ooooo.

By KC

December 6, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

Here’s an interesting question… If the Braves do trade LaRoche, what happens at 1B?

Scott Thorman looked pretty good in his brief time with Atlanta last year. Salty could move to first, but won’t be ready for the show next year. I know I’m going to catch some crap for this, but I wouldn’t mind seeing the Braves sign Javy Lopez to platoon with Thorman at 1B, and backup behind the plate (either as the 2nd catcher, or as a 3rd catcher).

Anyway, I don’t want to see LaRoche go, but I’m confident that JS won’t deal him unless it makes sense.

By Wise Braves Fan

December 6, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

P** about losing LaRoche, but we need a set-up man…we could have taken the division again if we had Wickman and a setup man all last season.

Please Santa, all I want for Christmas is a set-up man!

By Voice of Reason

December 6, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

KC: I ran across them while info-surfing. I can’t find all of the links, all newspapers, but here are a couple:

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Chicago Tribune

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

Lew, I would think there are more pieces involved than just LaRoche and Gonzalez. Even I, as big a Gonzalez fan as I am, would not trade an everyday 30-HR 1B for a reliever straight up. Unless the Braves think he’s the second coming of Mariano Rivera or something (heck, maybe they do).

By Lew

December 6, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

KC-First of all, Thorman will be fine. Maybe not as productive as LaRoche right off, but he is Atlanta’s #5 prospect. As far as Salty-The Braves have not tried him at first and are, from all reports I’ve heard, reluctant to move him to a new position. The Braves have Kala Ka’aihue in the wings. He has been compared to Andres Gallarrag. He hit 28 HR’s and drove in 80 at Myrtle Beach last seaon, leading the Braves minor league organization in both categories. He is quite well thought of and is already a first baseman. If Thorman can hold the fort for two years, Ka’aihue should be ready. He is now 22. Now Little Richard-The man was a true rock and roll pioneer. No one will ever accuse him of running with the pack. He is and always has been a unique individual. He’s from Macon and that should explain any eccentricities. If you’ve ever spent much time in Macon (and I have), you will understand what I mean. He is the only human who should be allowed to use Botox. He should be forever young. As far as Botox, I have a question. What will happen to all of the Botox in Sylvester Stallone’s face when it is beaten to a pulp i the new Rocky movie? Will it travel upwards and freeze his brain? Has this already happened? Would anyone even notice if it did?

By Lew

December 6, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Scoots-Look at his career numbers. He MAY BE the second coming of Rivera. That’s why the Pirates are thinking long and hard.

By braves1us

December 6, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

Coming from the PNW… Soriano is the closer of the future in the deal. I’m not sure where you got 13 games in two seasons… he didn’t pitch in 2005 because of arm surgery… but, in 2004 and 2006 he was lights out in the Mariner bullpen. He throws hard 96-98, and has a nast slider… he’s got the attitude to close, too… though, my one concern with him is that in early September he took a linedrive off of the nogin, and the Mariners put him down for the year… he could have pitched and wanted to, but the Mariners said no… so, you have the mild concern if he’ll have flashback issues on the mound.

By NCBravesFan

December 6, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

Benitez is a frickin’ head case, and JS would be an idiot to give up the third string mop in the visitor’s clubhouse to get him.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

KC-If you had ever seen Javy play first, you would not suggest this course of action. He stinks. His defensive skills have deteriorated radically since leaving the Braves. He is not the same player you remembered and the Red Sox are keeping him. Besides, he would be way too expensive and he is not as good as Brayan Pena any more. It’s Pena’s turn.

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Lew, no doubt, great stats (hey, remember, I was the guy lobbying for Gonzalez back in JUNE!!). But I’ll bet JS is using the same logic on Littlefield (everyday vs. reliever) to jack it up some. I’m thinking prospects added, though, not necessarily ML-ready players. Pirates aren’t gonna throw in one of their four young pitchers, for sure, and I’d think those are the only other ML chips that would get JS’s heart racing.

By Alan

December 6, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

I sure hope the Braves steer clear of Benitez. He’s a head case, and a proven choker in big games - remember him with the Orioles and the Mets? The more I think of it, LaRoche for Gonzalez makes a lot of sense - for all of the reasons DOB gave upfront. I’d also explore including Giles and Castillo, particularly if Castillo’s salary is considerably lower, which I believe it is. In any case, I’ll bet something happens today as all of us are “gathering around the hot stove” munching on cheese and crackers (thanks, DOB).

By Lew

December 6, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

Scoots-Check out these figures for Gonzalez. In his career (since 2003), he is 7-9 with 28 of 31 saves converted. He has pitched 155 innings. He has struck out 183 while walking 74, a ratio of 2.5 to 1. He has given up 9 HR in those 155IP for an average of one HR per 17 IP. He may be the second coming of Rivera, or even better.

By Wayne

December 6, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

The only way Atlanta would want Soriano AND Benitez would be if there were something in the works to move Wickman. Lots of teams are looking for a closer, and some might pay mightily?? (Boston??) This would only work if we had that dude in Texas for HoRam. So, for HoRam, Wickman, LaRoche, we get Benitez, Soriano, Otsaku, Hansen and Coco Crisp??

By Voice of Reason

December 6, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

ncscoots: I think moving “an everyday 30-HR 1B for a reliever straight up” is not necessarily bad under certain conditions. If Gonzalez is as DOB has described, he could eventually be as important to the Braves as Rivera is to the Wanks. And, there are other possibilities at 1B. JS touts Thorman as ready to play every day, (for what that’s worth,) but even Stevie Wonder can see that Chipper has to move to a less physically stressful position. I’m not saying that 1B is a cakewalk, but it has been known to lengthen more than a few NL careers. Yeah, I know, that’s been knocked around more on this blog than anyone cares to think about, but facts are facts. Obviously, with McCann in place, Salty will either be traded or moved to 1B, but such a move will require a couple more seasons in the minors. (How many years are left for Chipper?)

My point is this - there are far fewer options for pitching than for 1B. Take the stud pitcher and worry about the offense later…

By Voice of Reason

December 6, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

Lew: Great point about Kala Ka— Kala Kaai— Kala Kaiai—

Lew: Great point about KK! He is an up and coming stud. I hope you’re accurate in your assessment of Thorman.

By Jim

December 6, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Lew, Kala K. put up big numbers at low A and then was promoted to high A where he did hit some hrs, but in general struggled. Let’s not make him out to be the second coming of Galaraga just yet. The Braves have to choose between Thorman and LaRoche now (and have a possible move to 1b by Salty as a backup.) The fact that they are even considering trading LaRoche must mean that they regard Thorman as highly or more highly and need to make a place for him and/or they must also be considering moving Salty to 1B and figure he’ll be ready in a year’s time.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

It was just reported on MLB.com that the Pirates deal may be expanded to include Davies for Castillo. The commentary makes a big deal of Castillo’s defensive problems, however.

By Lew

December 6, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Jim-I am using terminology supplied on Ka’aihue by Chop Talk Magazine, a Braves’ publication. I’ve never seen him play, so I can’t compare him to anyone. Just reporting. I am, after all, an Honorary Journalist, appointed by Jimmy Smith, himself.

By dougp

December 6, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Quick question. Do the Braves have to trade Giles and or Ramirez because they won’t be able to afford them after arbitration? Or do they need to trade them in order to have financal flexability to sign free agents? Let’s just say nothing happens, Giles wins his arbitration hearing, do they have to trade him because we go over the $80 mil payroll?

By Lew

December 6, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

Wayne-I hope you are joking or are just plain delusional.

By trevor

December 6, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

trade andruw for arod …straight up

By Wayne

December 6, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

My earlier post on the 3-4 way that would bring Benitez here, and send Wick to Boston, was purely conjecture, and CERTAINLY not what I would call a good deal. Unless we thought Soriano was the 2nd coming of Rivera, then we could eat Benitez, use him in the 7th inning.

An interesting observation on Barry Bonds. I wish SF would invite him into their suite today and say, “Barry, you know, we don’t need your freakin headaches anymore. Go out there and find a job!”

Whaddya think?? (secretly, I dream of Gonzo in a Braves uniform!)

By Haywood Jablome

December 6, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Mike Gonzalez on the Pittsburgh Pirates is like having platinum rims on your ‘76 Ford Pinto…what’s the point? GM Littlefield would do better to improve what’s under the hood, i.e. adding an up and coming left-handed power bat to his anemic offense.

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

Doug, they have to stay within an $80 mill payroll, and they want badly to have a lights-out bullpen. If they have to give up some runs to do that, they are willing to, because last season they ranked among the top 3 in almost every offensive category and it wasn’t enough to offset their leaky bullpen and injury-riddled rotation.

You have to prioritize, and the Braves’ priority is pitching right now. Plus, they know they’ll not re-sign Giles as a free agent a year from now, so they’d rather drop his $5 mill salary, replace him with a cheaper option, and try to get something in return.

If they traded Horacio, and nobody says they are going to (they’re listening, but that applies to almost everyone on the team), they would trade him because they got something valuable in return and bcause they feel like they have enough starting depth (at least of the non-outstanding variety) and could do better to shed him $3-4 mill salary.

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

The more I read about Gonzalez, the more willing I am to give up Laroche. Don’t get me wrong-I think he is Gold-Glove and All-Star caliber, and he showed what he can do last year with the bat. But to have a 1-2 bullpen punch of Gonzo and Wicky is almost too good to be true. Yes, we’d be taking a gamble on Thorman, but if he is as good defensively as Laroche, then we can live with the loss in offense IMHO. The only question then is, what do we do with Giles? Do we keep him? I thought we were trading him for a setup man, but if we get Gonzalez, then we have one. It looks like we have two options, at least that are obvious:

1. Giles to SD for Linebrink (or Meredith?)

2. Laroche to Pittsburgh for Gonzalez

It looks like we need one of these two deals to happen, but not both. If we lost Laroche, would we then move Giles for a speedy outfielder and package Langerhans with Giles?

This is getting as clear as mud. I love it!

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

Pirates 2B Castillo is imminently available, I was told, but his physical talents (immense) are somewhat diminished by his mental lapses or attitude. Still, he’s an option, especially if it’ll allow the Braves to get Gonzalez.

By Wayne

December 6, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

Check the stats. Castillo is an error looking for a place to happen. Besides, I think unless we got a high OBP second sacker, we are going with Prado or outside chance Johnson or Escobar. JS: Steer clear of Castilla. Cantu might be a decent option, and I like Baldelli. That still doesn’t get us a premium reliever though.

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

OK I have been reading this blog since the summer and have finally decided to speak up. I think that the trade for Gonzales would be a good one. Like someone said earlier, offence isnt a problem, its the pitching. Just by losing laroche doesnt mean we will falter to the bottom of the offensive category. But at the same time, getiing Gonzales would definatly put us back at the top of the pitching catagory…

By DCarp23

December 6, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

If there is concern about Castillo’s defensive problems, what is the take on his offensive problems? In three full seasons, dude hasn’t had an on base percentage above .307.

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

The more I read about Gonzalez, the more willing I am to give up Laroche. Don’t get me wrong-I think he is Gold-Glove and All-Star caliber, and he showed what he can do last year with the bat. But to have a 1-2 bullpen punch of Gonzo and Wicky is almost too good to be true. Yes, we’d be taking a gamble on Thorman, but if he is as good defensively as Laroche, then we can live with the loss in offense IMHO. The only question then is, what do we do with Giles? Do we keep him? I thought we were trading him for a setup man, but if we get Gonzalez, then we have one. It looks like we have two options, at least that are obvious:

1. Giles to SD for Linebrink (or Meredith?)

2. Laroche to Pittsburgh for Gonzalez

It looks like we need one of these two deals to happen, but not both. If we lost Laroche, would we then move Giles for a speedy outfielder and package Langerhans with Giles?

This is getting as clear as mud. I love it!

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

OK I have been reading this blog since the summer and have finally decided to speak up. I think that the trade for Gonzales would be a good one. Like someone said earlier, offence isnt a problem, its the pitching. Just by losing laroche doesnt mean we will falter to the bottom of the offensive category. But at the same time, getiing Gonzales would definatly put us back at the top of the pitching catagory…

By Wayne

December 6, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

Lew: My children say I am having a “senior year” all over again. I didn’t like the deals I was hearing, only speculating on the logic behind such a deal. Personally, I think JS will pull the trigger on a LaRoche deal today or tonight. I suspect he is weighing the options. When there is this much smoke, there is probably some fire. I say get Gonzo, try to dump Giles, and let’s go for the WS in ‘07 with Andruw leading the way by hitting about 90 HR, 200 RBI’s and batting 350 (sounds like a Scott Boras sales pitch).

By Stuart

December 6, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

Best case Senarios in my head and the problems we have if all or some work out:

1. Giles for Linebrink
2. LaRoche for Gonzalez
3. Aybar at 2nd
4. Langerhans developing into a leadoff man (or Kelly Johnson)
5. Hudson for Sexson

Why I think this is good. 1. It would shorten games to 5-6 innings. i.e. less pressure on your starters. 2. Next year when Wicky is gone, you have a the 8-9 innings still covered. 3. Rotation of Smoltz, James, Davies, Ramerez, and Hampton not that bad, especially backed up with a stacked bully. (remember you still have Poronto, McBride, and they guy who got hurt last year. Thus starters dont have to go as deep in games.) 4. Your LF is a hole unless one of them learns to leadoff. Langerhans and Johnson are fast and both take pitches so they deserve a shot. If they work out, then look out. 5. Sexson when healthy is a masher.

Potential Problems with the above 1. I dont want to trade Huddy. He was asked to go pretty deep in some games last year and that made him look worse than he was. He had a lot of 3-2 games that got away from him last year becasue the bullpen let ALOT of runners score after he left. It also means your SP depth is weakened greatly.

1. Aybar is okay at 2nd, but do we trust him for a whole year? Do you trust Prado for a whole year? Do you trust a platoon of the two for a year?

2. Do you trust the LF platoon to do anything next year? I don’t. That with the exception of a dominating 8th inning guy is the BIGGEST WEAKNESS and was all of last year, but no one said anything.

In closing, if the braves had not made such a shortsided deal with Betemit, they would not be in the postion of creating a problem by fixing one. If you trade Roche and Giles, you weaken your right side IF production. If you had kept Betemit, both could be moved, Chipper at 1B and Betemit at 3rd and then the Platoon as 2nd would be okay. If one LF emerges as a lead off guy then that spot becomes a plus in the order instead of a minus, but really, does anyone see that happening.

If you do the three deals with Giles and Roche, and Huddy then as the team is constructed right now in the above senario, based on the rumors, you STILL have possible platoon situations at 2B & LF, and a fragile, yet productive, 3B and strikeout machines at 1B and RF, and no true leadoff guy. If injuries and inconsitency hit like last year, there are 5 outs in your lineup at least. It is hard to string rallies to score runs and use a stacked bully that way.

In closing, they was the roster is set up, one move may help pitching, but will kill the offense. If we had any money to go fill a hole int he batting order, I would be all for it, but we don’t and we as fans are going to be treated to a lot more expensive mediocrity, lower scoring mediocrity.

PS i hope beyond all hope I am wrong and JS pulls the string and we win 100 games.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

alan, you think you are eating a lot of cheese and crackers … you cannot imagine how much cheese is being consumed right now in orlando by sports journalists (and this is with the old journalist not even there). a good cheese sampler will last less than ten minutes. with gouda cheese, less than 8 minutes. journalism is cheese-intensive.

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

oh and hello to all the regulars here(Lew, The Grinch, Robert, carolinalady etc.) and of course DOB….

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 6, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

Hi folks, another day in the hot stove league…

• I am okay with either LaRoche to the Bucs for Gonzalez (I have reservations that Littlefield will play ball with JS in negotiations), or to the LA Angels of Anaheim, California and the Pacific time zone along with Giles for Figgins, et al. Kotchman concerns me in that DOB referred to a mystery ailment. Certainly not on the level of getting Nick Esasky then watching the poor guy go through the vertigo issues in 1990, but it’s something to be of concern to me. To me, JS will want a pitcher in addition and I don’t think the Angels will pony up with one that we’ll like. If that’s the case, we need to walk away.

• I’ll take the minority opinion on whether the Braves should have dealt AJ prior to making the 10/5 plateau. In the context of the time, to me, it made more sense to keep him than to deal him and even if we did, I’m not convinced that we get back enough proven MLB talent to improve on the record we had since that time. I also think at that point, there were some reasonable expectations that JS would have a legitimate shot at resigning him.

• Thanks for the hard work in Orlando DOB!

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

Haywood Jablome

dead on dude…

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

Matthew, Braves are actually more likely to get equivalent offensive production from Thorman than equivalent defense. Thorman has a good swing and plenty of pop (at least in the minors), but his glove is average at best.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

we dont need sexton….at all.

By Joe

December 6, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

Three trades:

1) Go ahead with trade of LaRoche for Pittsburgh’s Gonzales.

2) Trade Tim Hudson to the Cardinals for Chris Duncan to play 1st.

3)Trade Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles to the Red Sox for Manny Ramirez, Coco Crisp, Jonathon Papelbon, and either the young reliever they have, Braxton or Lester, if he is healthy.

By DCarp23

December 6, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

If you look at Thorman’s minor league plate numbers, they are pretty similar to LaRoche’s. His average and OBP were not quite as high and his slugging was a little higher. Notably, Thorman started his minor league career two years younger than LaRoche was when he began, though he did sit out the 2001 season, so he’s basically been a year behind LaRoche at every position.

The thing that jumps out to me about Thorman’s stats is the improvement made each year at a level. His stats were significantly better his second years at High A, AA and AAA, which seemed to indicate to me a strong ability to adjust and a player who continues to improve.

More importantly, the front office seems to think he is ready, and they have a pretty strong record of, if nothing else, identifying ready big league talent from in their own system.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/Scott-Thorman.shtml http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/L/Adam-LaRoche.shtml

By Jman

December 6, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

Why cant the Braves add Davies, or HoRam or even Hudson to possibly get the Angels to give up pitcher like Santana, or Saunders or Shields?

LaRoche, & Hudson for Figgins, & Santana, Shields

Why wont that work? I know when more people are added to trades that it complicates things a bit, but why wouldnt it work? Unless the Angels just flat out dont want Huddy

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

JJS:

There is nothing better than Cracker Barrel brand Sharp Cheddar Cheese. My grandfather and I used to cut a block of that into slices, and enjoy it with Ritz Crackers and wash it down with an ice cold Dr. Pepper. We’d do this while we watched the Braves games on TBS. My granfather used to call it, “Rockin’ and relaxin’ cheese.” I never understood that, but it is a great memory of him.

DO NOT TRADE HUDSON FOR SEXSON. We don’t need any more strikeouts on this team, and Huddy is still capable of being one of the top five pitchers in the game. If you trade him for Albert Pujols or Ryan Howard, then ok. But not for the strikeout king.

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

OK I have been reading this blog since the summer and have finally decided to speak up. I think that the trade for Gonzales would be a good one. Like someone said earlier, offence isnt a problem, its the pitching. Just by losing laroche doesnt mean we will falter to the bottom of the offensive category. But at the same time, getiing Gonzales would definatly put us back at the top of the pitching catagory…

By geauxbraves2000

December 6, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Trading LaRoche & Giles for Roberts & Penn would be the equivalent of trading Aaron and Ruth for the kid down the street and his mom. (I’m not saying LaRoche and Giles are Aaron and Ruth, I used their names just for emphasis.)

I sure hope JS wasn’t serious about that trade proposal, for that has to be one of the most riducolus proposals I’ve ever seen. I hope it was one of those unfounded interenet rumors.

Geaux Braves!!

By Alan

December 6, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

This is off the subject, but it bugs the h—- out of me. Yesterday I read the names of the finalists for the Hall of Fame’s Ford Frick Award, given to baseball broadcasters, based on performance, longevity, and team loyalty. This year, 3 Braves’ broadcasters were on the preliminary ballot (which allowed online fan voting during the entire month of November). Every single day, I cast votes for all 3 - Skip Caray, Ernie Johnson and Pete Van Wieren - all of whom deserve enshrinement, IMHO. None of the 3 is a finalist, which is a sin. Here are names of 3 former players who are finalists, and not 1 can hold a candle to Skip, Ernie and Pete - Ken Harrelson, Tony Kubek and Joe Nuxhall. This obviously is another popularity contest, just like the annual All-Star Game balloting, but it is a shame that our 3 guys are overlooked every year. I’d love to hear your thoughts, DOB, as well as those of everyone else. Thanks.

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

LOL, Barry is in Orlando looking for a job. Wow, I really hope no one signs him so the best record in all of sports wont be tarnished….

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

Scoots:

I guess an average glove will be okay, since I can’t remember the last Brave 1B to win a Gold Glove. You really expect .280/30/100 out of Thorman? Cool.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

this journalist knows where there is a free agent first baseman with presence. also, this journalist is aware of a former braves first baseman without presence but a left-handed batter. journalist can never forgive him for butchering a play at first that cost this team big-time. know who it is?

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the double posts, as you can tell, I am new.

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

geaux, really, don’t hold back any more on your opinions, OK? :-), just throw them suckers right on out there, LOL!

By Joe

December 6, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

Chris Duncan is better than Thorman and he is not playing behind Pujols.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

All this talk about Thor reminds me of last year when we all discussed WB taking over at second…

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

Matthew, wait, wait, wait…I didn’t say I expected Thorman to put LaRoche’s 2006 numbers up, just that it’s more likely he’ll do that than turn into a Gold Glove. Whew!

That being said, it wouldn’t be surprising to me to see Thorman put up the numbers of .270/20/70 in his first full year. Maybe someone has a scouting projection on him from his minor league stats? Anybody? Bueller?

By The Grinch

December 6, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

Morning, all (and to you, Mitchie-san). I hope some or all of these deals go through pretty soon, ‘cause the tension is driving me nuts.

Journalist Jimmy, I too am a fan of gouda. Does this stem from the two journalism classes I took at Southern? Do journalists like goat cheese? Oh, the baaa-nality!

By Wayne

December 6, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Journalist Jimmy: Klesko

By Mets Fan

December 6, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Why don’t the Braves pick up Barry Bonds and convert him to a first baseman and bring back John Rocker to set up in the bullpen

By Wayne

December 6, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

JJS: He hit .667 last year too!

By Bottom Line

December 6, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

If the Braves want to accomplish anything in the Winter Meeting, other than Bernie Marcus buying the team, they must trade Andruw Jones.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 6, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

What’s the hold up on Daryle Ward? If this Laroche deal goes through, could he (DW) be effective as a “more than semi-regular” player or is he pretty much useful only as a pinch-hitter? Knowing Bobby’s style, Thorman would more than likely be platooning at first this year rather than playing everyday. Just say no to Brian Jordan against lefties, again.

By Voice of Reason

December 6, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

JJS: You wouldn’t be bringing up the name of… Klesko, would you?

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

Hope this link works:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2003463741_mari06.html

This article suggests what I think would be a bad trade. Braves get R. Soriano from SEA and Benitez from the Giants, SEA gets Tim Hudson and Laroche, and SF gets Richie Sexson.

I don’t like it, especially if the Pittsburgh deal goes down. I don’t like it regardless. Benitez is too old and Soriano is unproven.

By DCarp23

December 6, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

NCScoots I am neither a scout, nor a predictor, but both guys statistics their last year in AAA were pretty similar (same OBP, Thorman with a higher SLG), so let’s go with LaRoche’s first year as a prediction.

That year, in 110 games, LaRoche hit .278/.333/488 with 27 2Bs, 13 HR and 45 RBI. Projecting that over 162 games (and RBI are completely unpredictable because of so many other factors), you have .278/.333/488 with 40 2Bs, 19 HRs and 66 RBI.

So there are my predictions.

By $80 million payroll

December 6, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

This season I will be offering you a menu featuring a lovely rookie second baseman served with a side of Sturtze finished off nicely with a no-name first baseman. Enjoy.

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

As I float out here in the middle of the Pacific ocean, I am desparatly awaitng a trade. I am tired of speculation. I really want something to happen. Even if its bad, at least we will have something ligitamate to complain about…. I like Laroche, but again, pitching is key. If we have a stud pitching staff, who cares if there is a drop in offense?

By NCBravesFan

December 6, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Matthew - here’s what SF Chronicle Sportswriter Bruce Jenkins said about Benitez in August of this year. Read it folks, and see if he’s someone that would be a good fit on the Braves.

“Armando Benitez may have more friends than he realizes. They’re right alongside him in the clubhouse. They don’t quite understand him, and they’re exasperated, but they’re willing to ride out seven weeks of a potential nightmare in the Giants’ bullpen.

Aside from his obvious shortcomings — blowing leads, shortage of stuff, making ill-advised gestures toward fans — Benitez has done everything he can to alienate his teammates. In a wide-ranging tirade about a month ago, he claimed he’d be a superior closer on a better team. Just recently, instead of taking responsibility for a clearly blown save, he said the blame could be spread throughout the clubhouse.

He was correct, technically, but he badly missed the point. Closers don’t blame anyone else for their worst moments. They don’t hide from the press, make excuses or point fingers in other directions. They stand up and take 100 percent of the blame. That’s how short relievers become men, in the eyes of their fellow players (and media). The truth is that Benitez is not wildly popular in the clubhouse these days, frankly because some of the players consider him a very big baby.”

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

yes, yes, it is klesko. lost a ball in the lights at first base - a thrown ball. oh, the humanity! still, he was plagued by the bobby cox platoonitis and not allowed to play there full-time. that did not stop him from becoming an all-star in 2001 with the padres. this journalist is reminded of bobby calling an aged tp up to bat (instead of klesko) with men on base and the game on the line. it was not pretty. next inning, bobby inserted klesko in the lineup and he hit a solo hr. oh, the humanity! now, another first base possibility … kelly johnson. seems like he needs to be in the lineup somwhere. now, more cheese … yes, matthew good, sharp cheddar cut with a pocket knife is a pleasure. grinch, gouda enough. now, who among you knows the favorite cheese of dob?

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 6, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

JJS: “Journalism is cheese intensive” Still chuckling about that little jem.

Bora$ and AJ are adamant, he will play 2007 in Georgia. Nothing is ever certain, but that’s about as close a stone cold lock as it would come when Bora$ is involved.

Mets Fan - We’ll consider it as long as you guys consider bringing back Mo Vaughn and Dave Mlicki.

By Mets Fan

December 6, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Get Benitez back! He will give John Rocker some competition.

By NCBravesFan

December 6, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

LOL @ Mets fan. Anyone know what Rocker is up to these days? My guess is he’s doing landscaping work in Conyers, and spends his off time committing random acts of road rage on GA 400.

By DHD

December 6, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

“Trading LaRoche & Giles for Roberts & Penn would be the equivalent of trading Aaron and Ruth for the kid down the street and his mom”

Actually, Baltimore is the one that turned down this deal.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 6, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

From JS’ comments yesterday a trade could happen soon or may take longer to put together.

This just in!!!! Schmidt signs with the Dodgers for 3 years and 45 million. Thats all Ken Rosenthal has reported on foxsports.com so far.

Maybe this will allow them to trade young pitching to the Braves for AJ or Sox for Manny

By berigan

December 6, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I give a %$#@ what you think, and you know that matters, cuz as you say, my opinion carries weight! ;)

By Joe

December 6, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

The only realistic option I see at First base barring a trade, is Matt Diaz

By Joe

December 6, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Manny is part of the solution. He is undervalued because of his attitude an d Bobby Cox can handle him.

By KC

December 6, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

Lew:

I think Thorman may be able to do much more than just hold down 1B for a year or two… I think he has the potential to be a legit MLB power hitter. He’s not regarded as sure-fire prospect, but then, neither was Ryan Howard. The are credible rumors that he was available on the trade market for a while after joining the Phillies.

As for Javy… you are correct. I’ve never actually seen him play 1B. I was just assuming that he could learn the position well enough not embarrass himself there on a part-time basis… but I might be assuming too much. Anyway, I’ve just always liked the idea of having a 3rd catcher who can play elsewhere on the diamond and give you a productive bat off the bench. Javy might not be that guy though… I don’t know.

By Salty55

December 6, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

JJS You wrote, “who among you knows the favorite cheese of dob?” Answer: ‘Wiz’?

I’m kidding, DOB…I’m clueless! :-)

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

now THIS was a classic post:

By $80 million payroll December 6, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this This season I will be offering you a menu featuring a lovely rookie second baseman served with a side of Sturtze finished off nicely with a no-name first baseman. Enjoy.

ANYWAY…folks, the LaRoche/Gonzalez thing is very much alive, believe me. There’s a holdup, but it’s nothing to do with it needed to be expanded to include Davies or Castillo or anything else. That’s all I can say right now. The deal itself, LaRoche for Gonzalez, satisfies both teams, in principle

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

Braves are still negotiating with Ward, by the way. Still think it should get done. And Ward could play some first base with Thorman, at least that’s an option. Bobby Cox said today he thought Ward was fine there in the limited chances he got at 1B with Braves.

Cox also said he plans to play Thorman some in LF, if the Braves still have LaRoche or get another 1B.

By KC

December 6, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

Arkansas Hillbilly:

That’s right! I forgot all about D.Ward. Assuming the Braves re-sign him… He could platoon nicely with Thorman at 1B. Especially given the fact that the 1B position will hit 7th or 8th in this lineup… I’m sure we would get very adequate production at that position.

Maybe not 30 HR and 90 RBI, but we should be just fine there if we are able to keep Ward.

By Patrick

December 6, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Here anything about these Baldelli rumors? It still seems there are holes in the rotation, left field and coming soon, second base

By The Grinch

December 6, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Awww, shucks berigan (blush). You can’t see it right now but I’m pawing the ground with one hoof. :-)

By Rick Roberts

December 6, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Nice to see the fans so excited! To improve us for ‘07: a. LaRoche for Gonzalez is a must b. Trade Giles and a pitching prospect for Figgins c. Get Baldelli (I also prefer Crawford) for Davies, Leruw, Langerhans? d. Keep AJ in his ‘contract’ year and trade Hudson in July if we somehow are out of it or, it just makes sense. e. If we are ever to keep AJ, Hudson/Hampton have to go by next Fall. f. Thorman/K.Johnson can handle 1B. g. Lineup: Figgins, Renteria, Baldelli, CJ, AJ, McCann, Francoeur, Thorman. Good RH-LH balance, speed, power. h. Now have a BP to hold leads with Gonzo. Sturtze could be a bonus.
i. Now have the best team in the Division and NL.

By KC

December 6, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Mets fan: Our immigrant population has expanded since Rocker’s last stint here… so I don’t think he’d be interested in playing in Atlanta again. Besides, I hear he’s running for the city council in Queens! lol

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

Matthew, I about fell over laughing when I heard about that rumor out of Seattle. Let’s put it this way: Another Braves writer hear it late last night, and didn’t bother writing it because it was so ridiculous. I second his sentiments. Ridiculous.

Like at least three-quarters of the rumors coming out of here, it’s groundless.

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, I think you can stop worrying about Brian Jordan.

By Salty55

December 6, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Esteemed Blog Nation (You all know who you are!) Help me, please, understand something. For maximum value, this is the year to trade Hudson (despite reluctance, KC), due to economics, which are becoming less prohibitive daily! That said, if Huddy goes, why doesn’t Andruw Jones stay? Is the money not then available? And…do the deal before this season (this year would be the fifth year)? What am I missing? Anyone, anyone? (NCScoots you ‘beuller-ized me!)

Salty

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

ohhhhh…..my stomach is growling DOB…

By Bo

December 6, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

I don’t believe JS is crazy enought to trade Hudson and LaRoche for Benitez and Soriano, or I hope not. Make the Pirate trade work if you have to spice the pot.

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

NCBravesFan:

I agree with you completely, and that article seals it (no, not THAT seal, jjs). I don’t want Benitez anywhere near the Braves clubhouse.

By 22oz

December 6, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

John Rocker is actually a real estate developer now, or something to that tune.

By KC

December 6, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

DOB:

If LaRoche is traded, it seems that 1B next year will be manned by a platoon of Thorman and D.Ward.

Do you concur?

By Rick Roberts

December 6, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

To make the most of what the Braves can offer: a. LaRoche for Gonzalez is a must for BP b. Davies, Boyer, Langerhans in a Crawford deal c. Giles and pitching prospect for Figgins d. Keep AJ in his ‘contract’ year and keep open to signing him next year—he would discount somewhat for the Braves. e. But, before that can happen, Hudson/Hampton have to go f. Thorman/KJohnson can play 1B This would put Braves in playoffs/Series while satisfying money and talent. Time to trade a few young players.

By Mets Fan

December 6, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

KC, you are scary, taking a comment like that seriously. It is just that Benitez is a buffoon.

By krath

December 6, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

This post will either prove to be prophetic….. or just the ramblings of a senile middle aged man.

I smell a “mini” blockbuster, perhaps maybe multi-team trade.

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

Jman, you wrote: “Why cant the Braves add Davies, or HoRam or even Hudson to possibly get the Angels to give up pitcher like Santana, or Saunders or Shields?”

Well, because the Angels have a very talented pitching staff and would rather not trade a really good pitcher for an unproven prospect, an injury-plagued young lefty, and/or a veteran whose past three spotty seasons have been far below the standards he set over the previous five.

Other than that, nothing standing in the way of such a move.

By KC

December 6, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Give us some insight into your craft. How do you get your information at something like the winter meetings? Do you have folks somewhere down the food chain in the Braves organization that offer you tidbits from time to time… do you talk to other organizations to find out if they’re talking to Atlanta… or what? How do you dig up your info? Just curious.

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Patrick, a Tampa Bay source tells me the Braves got involved in the Baldelli discussions late last night, and HE said Chuck James was mentioned. I haven’t confirmed this with any Braves people, but I really doubt his name came up from the Braves. More likely, a D-Rays person said “that’s the guy we want,” because I know for a fact the D-Rays just drool over James and would love to have him.

As much as Baldelli’s performance and affordable contract for the next five season makes him very attractive, I can’t see the Braves giving up a guy they view as a rotation fixture for that same time period, a very solid left-hander who could win 15-20 games a season. Can’t see them doing that, especially when their often-reiterated priority is to improve the pitching staff.

By KC

December 6, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

METS FAN:

Taking what comment seriously??

By KC

December 6, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Salty55:

Why is it that when you bring up Hudson, you automatically mention me?? lol

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

if we cant get Linebrink (os someone of his caliber) I say hang on to Giles. I am not a big fan of his or anything, but he is a solid option at 2nd. If we can get Figgins though, SEE YA MARCUS!

By GermanBravesFan

December 6, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Since we “tried” to get Glavine back, how about trying to get Maddux? Would he consider $8 million per year? Just a thought…

By Heath

December 6, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

DOB:

IF, in fact, a straight up deal of Laroche for Gonzales satisfies both teams, what is the hold up? If the straight up deal is made, the payroll will not change and a Giles deal will still be needed. The only team with any real interst to date seems to be San Diego. Correct me if I am wrong, but why would Atlanta want Linebrink if they got Gonzales. There seems to be plenty of interest in Laroche and not near as much in Giles. Why not use Laroche for something a little more than just one relief pitcher. No matter how good he is, he is only available one inning at a time and for less than half of the Braves games. I would be interested to here your take.

To me, a straight up deal of Laroche for Gonzales leaves too many holes in the lineup, especially if the Braves do intend to move Giles. Where does the offense come from if Giles AND Laroche are moved….prada and thorman/ward would be a significant downgrade in BOTH offense and defense. I think people are forgetting that Giles is a pretty decent fielder at second base… and we all know Laroche is “slick” at first. What is the use of having good setup men if you don’t have the lead?

By Mets Fan

December 6, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

KC, The Braves bringing back John Rocker.

By TennesseePaul

December 6, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

15 million a year for Schmidt! Sheesh these Dodgers just love to blow cash. I know there are a lot Schmidt boosters out there but this is ridiculous. That guy is not worth 15 million a year. No way. No how. They already had Schmidt anyway. His name is Brad Penny. There’s your guy with “stuff”. A power arm that flourishes. An injury history to match Schmidt as well.

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

DOB:

I knew that rumor was garbage-it was good for a laugh, though.

By NCBravesFan

December 6, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

DOB - do you think you could give the Pirates your share of winter meeting cheese to help make this Gonzo thing happen? ;)

By KC

December 6, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

DOB:

What do you think of this trade…

Chuck James, Scott Thorman, Horacio Ramirez, Kyle Davies, Adam LaRoche, Salty, and 2 players to be named later

for

Carl Crawford

We’ve got to get Carl Crawford!!! Whadya think? lol

By Mets Fan

December 6, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

John Rocker is in NY promoting a campaign to make English the official language of the United States.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

cheese wiz is a good guess - but incorrect. when dob eats his favorite cheese no one will remain in the pressbox with him. it is a pungent cheese and is not for sissies. now, first base … who will remember stuffy mcinnis? surely, it will only be bob - and where is journalist bob? has he had some bad fruit cake? it is time for bob’s return to this blog.

By Shaun

December 6, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

Patrick ,

I don’t know what about Baldelli’s performance makes him attractive. Is it the career .329 OBP? Seriously, Baldelli probably will develop into an okay player, but Chuck James could be a top-of-the-rotation guy.

By KC

December 6, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

I know this doesn’t have anything to do with baseball, but I saw this headline elsewhere on the AJC site, and felt it was too good not to share:

Flatulence Forces Plane to Land

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/National/PlanePassingGas.html?imw=Y

By Glass Half Full

December 6, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

The Pirates deal would mean we don’t need Linebrink. Baldelli is an interesting option for the outfield though; Giles could be replaced within the current Braves system (Aybar, Prado, Escobar).

By Patrick

December 6, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB,

I can see why they’d want Chuck so badly since he almost threw a no-no against them.

By KC

December 6, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Mets Fan:

What did I say to give you the impression that I took that seriously???

By SR

December 6, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

DOB, please tell me that your comment re: the ridiculous nature of the Seattle rumor relates to both the giveaway of Hudson and LaRoche for next to nothing and the possibility of adding yet another gas can to the bullpen in the person of Armando Benitez. As one you lives in San Francisco, let me say quite clearly that I saw this clown get raked all season long and if that is someone’s idea of improving a bullpen, they need serious therapy.

By Glass Half Full

December 6, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

And wouldn’t it be fun to chant “ROCCO! ROCCO! ROCCO!”?

By Glass Half Full

December 6, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

Oh, no way should we trade James for anyone.

By journalist jimmy smtih

December 6, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

kc, it is k-r-a-f-t where dob is concerned. dob does seem to have many sources, doesn’t he? “this just in from a white horse souse … “

By Salty55

December 6, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

KC Cause you’re the only consistent supporter (besides myself…but I don’t post often enough for anyone to remember me!) of Huddy…and HoRam, for that matter. I didn’t want you thinking I was being a turncoat! LOL!

By KC

December 6, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

I read somewhere today that the Braves were said to be among the suitors for Eric Gagne. But I’m assuming there’s no significant chance of that happening whatsoever.

TennPaul:

I disagree with you on Schmidt. I think he was clearly the best starting pitcher available on the free agent market.

By Shaun

December 6, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

Are you surprised? You pretty much knew someone was going to give Schmidt (and Zito) a ridiculous amount of money. At least with Zito, you’re getting a consistently good starter.

By Bravesfan

December 6, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

DOB:

What would happen with Giles if the pirates deal did happen?? Are there still clubs that are interested in him?? THanks for all your hard work; your blog rocks!!

By NCBravesFan

December 6, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

KC - LOL on the flatulence story! Ever since I heard that story, I’ve had this vision of Samuel L. Jackson screaming, “I’M TIRED OF THESE MF’IN F—TS ON THIS MF’IN PLANE!!!!”

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

Heath does correctly point out that all the trades and scenarios discussed have the potential to weaken the Braves defensively, at least on the left side IF. How much, depends on who plays second (I guess), if indeed Giles is traded. I’d say the infield defense as might be projected right now could be rated as “solid”, but certainly not “spectacular”. How much impact that has on a revamped pitching staff, I can’t say. But it certainly makes less-than-stellar-defensively 2B less trade-worthy, IMO.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

kc, see what a night eating cheese can do to a person? this is a primary reason that journalists are not invited to more parties. now, baseball … this journalist is hoping for a whistling second baseman this year. imagine the fun at the ballpark when escobar whistles and the fans whistle back. then, the team should try for a yodeling third baseman. “uh, yodel-a -e - who”. this one is not worked out fully in journalist’s mind. it is hard to yodel with seeds, gum, and tobacco in your mouth. should prove especially tricky for chipper.

By flbravesgirl

December 6, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

German, Maddux just went to the Padres.

Grinch, sorry to answer so far after the fact. No turning into pumpkins, just several days in Rabun tiling, painting and removing wallpaper (which is the most unpleasant chore related to the new place). The house has nice architecture but is a museum of hideous wallpaper patterns. My sister suugested finding and shooting whoever put it up.

Work calls, so I’ll check in tonight. Hopefully we’ll have some new info to discuss by then.

By TennesseePaul

December 6, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

KC: I suppose I agree in part. Schmidt is probably the best out there this year. Being the best available doesn’t mean he’s good or that he is worth that much. King of the Crap Pile I suppose. And when a team already has a carbon copy of the guy for much less than 15 million a year, why shell out the coin? Are they that upset for losing Maddux to the Padres?.

Payne: I am not even sold on Zito. All I have to do to question that one is look at Mulder and Hudson. Both those guys dropped off after moving out of Oakland. (KC I’ve read your disertation on Hudson, no need to re-print it). On top of Mulder and Hudson, Zito’s numbers have been following similar paths. And then, to top all that, he is seeking 17 million a year over 6 years. I don’t think so. I don’t mind if other teams shoot themselves in the foot though.

All I know is this, I’m glad the Braves holes are so frickin big that they would need to go to this free agent pool for solutions. We had a solid offense and terrible pen and a shakey rotation. But a lot of that was shored up when Sosa was traded, Thomson was allowed to walk and Travis Smith, Jason Shiell, and the countless other no-names were left a long the blood stain trail that was this past season. For further insite I will refer you to one of KC’s posts on how spectabulous this team could possibly be. I don’t agree hole heartedly, but I don’t think it’s too far off.

By Joe

December 6, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

The Braves could just do a swap of Giles for Manny and get the spend happy BoSox to throw in some cash to help pay his contract. Then they could move Andruw and fill 3 to 4 holes with a two or three way trade.

By KC

December 6, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Shaun: “You pretty much knew someone was going to give Schmidt (and Zito) a ridiculous amount of money. At least with Zito, you’re getting a consistently good starter.”

Over the last 4 years:

Zito: 55-46 (.545 win%) with a 3.85 ERA

Schmidt: 58-28 (.674 win%) with a 3.34 ERA

I will say in fairness that their ERA’s over the last 2 seasons, Zito has a slightly lower ERA than Schmidt (by about 1/10 of a run). But overall, I think Schmidt has proven more in recent years. Plus, he’s a power pitcher, and that’s what you want in October.

By Joe

December 6, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, They are too cheap to go the free agent route. That is why they must trade Andruw

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

JJS:

What kind of cheese did you have today-you are on the ball. It is not safe to drink Coke Zero near the computer today.

By scott

December 6, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

I just don’t see getting rid of LaRoche for a one inning guy every other day at best, a way to bolster our team.

By KC

December 6, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

TennPaul:

What disertation on Hudson??? =)

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 6, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

The rumors swirl round and round. I’ve read about some stinkers, here and elsewhere, and immediately dismiss them as pure folly, wishful thinking, or the product of somebody who sits around with nothing better to do than try to think up the most bizarre scenario around (read: Sexton for Huddy). Then, I read that the BoSox will pay J.D. Screw at $70 million for 5 years. The over-paid, under-motivated, oft injured player gets $14 mil a year. His agent, Bora$$ is licking his chops in anticipation of Druw’s prospects for next year, no doubt. His next contract may rival A-Rod’s deal, in the current marketplace, if he has a great walk year.

In short, MLB is now officially insane. The net result of the chaos (formally known as the free agent market) will be higher ticket prices, higher food costs, increased parking, and players wearing “Chik-Fil-A” logos on their uniforms, helmets and hats. In the meantime, since the Braves are on the outside looking in, given the budget, I trust JS to do what he has done since he got here, and that is to put together a competitve team.

By David O'Brien

December 6, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Heath, a straight-up deal LaRoche for Gonzalez gives you your closer a year from now, or, heaven forbid, next year if Wickman gets hurt. Think of it as a trade for a closer, not simply a middle man or setup guy.

Remember, he converted 24 of 24 saves last year, the only guy, by the way, in either league to save 20 games without blowing at least two.

And IF they do the LaRoche/Gonzalez trade, they wouldn’t have to wait for San Diego to budge on Linebrink. They could package Giles with a prospect or pitcher _ I’m just speculating here, nothing I’ve heard _ for someone besides a setup man. Any number of things they might do if they get Gonzalez and fill that need there.

They don’t HAVE to trade Giles if they move LaRoche, but they’d certainly be right up against their payroll limit with little or no flexiblity later.

By Carolina Lady

December 6, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Afternoon, everyone!

Salty, glad to see you back! We have others who are MIA: journalist Bob, 35, 3Trees, Suds, PENN, hk - who have I left off?? Time to gather up a search team!

Mitchie-san, welcome! Glad you have joined us! :-))

By KC

December 6, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

You know right now that M.Gonzalez is at home thinking “Please God, Pleeeease let this trade happen!”

Meanwhile, LaRoche might have to be talked off of a ledge by the end of the day.

By 22oz

December 6, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

Giles isn’t going anywhere. he’s still at the top of the page at atlantabraves.com. hudson is too. sorry laroche, you’re not there.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

second base - jonathan schuerholz - you read it here. “not a major leaguer” huh, dob? oh, the humanity! jimmy smith has inadvertently reminded john schuerholz of dob’s ill-advised remarks of the spring. now, the fountain of information will surely run dry. wait a minute, that was not dob, that was guy curtright -and he is gone! mistaken identity.

By TN-MAN

December 6, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

DOB- Do you believe in fact the “trade” goes through that there is any chance of Salty being the Braves 1st baseman next year? It seems as though John S. has several things in the works. Is it possible that if the Laroche trade goes through he has others ready to go as well?

By KC

December 6, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

I just looked up Jose Castillo’s numbers. Please tell me why the Braves would want to include him in any deal! We’d be much better off trying our young guys out at that position.

By Salty55

December 6, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

CL Thank you, Ma’am! I’d post more often, but I lose my (un)train of thought by the time the 5 minute lag has passed!

The blog’s in rare form today…nice to see. NYMetsFan…great post on Rocker promoting English! That’s a classic!

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

JS is smarter than that to trade C. James…espcially since he prob could get more for him than tampa would give.

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

So, we’re potentially losing Giles and Laroche and getting in return a closer and a setup man. Is it worth it? I don’t know. How many blown saves did we have last year? Would it have been enough to win the division or the Wild Card? Probably.

How much are we freeing up in terms of payroll with these deals? Giles and Laroche combined will make about $8 il next year, I think. Are Gonzalez and Linebrink/Meredith that cheap? The only way I see to save payroll is to trade Andruw, which isn’t happening, or trade Hudson. We have too much money tied up in a few players, but JS couldn’t have known how drastically TW was going to destroy the Braves. I applaud him for trying to keep this team competitive. I think after Andruw leaves, there will be considerably more wiggle room in the budget, and next year’s winter meetings could be much more interesting. Or, Andruw could lead us to a WS title, then decide to stay. Who knows, but it’s fun to prognosticate.

JJS, any word from journalist Bob?

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

one other upside of Gonzalez with the Braves is this: a low-pressure chance for one of the other RP to prove capable of taking over as an 8th-inning guy in the future.

Everybody else in the pen gets to drop down a notch on the stress-meter; it gives Bobby a little more leeway in determining the roles; and it gives the players a little better opportunity to succeed. At the very least, Braves would know if they have to look for a setup guy AGAIN next winter or not.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

that’s right, matthew - a cheese ball! an amazing thing! nothing like a good cheese ball to liven up the holidays. imagine the fun we could have with a cheese ball at the ballpark. imagine a cheese ball chopper to chipper. and why is the stadium in wisconsin not cheese ball park? many questions. many, many questions.

By GermanBravesFan

December 6, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

Geez… Tell me this isn’t true (just saw that on Yahoo):

The Seattle Mariners have asked the Baltimore Orioles about some of their developing arms and found themselves back in the forefront of yet another three-way trade rumor that would see them land Atlanta Braves starter Tim Hudson.

The Hudson possibility would involve the Mariners trading first baseman Richie Sexson.

Sexson would be sent to the San Francisco Giants and reliever Rafael Soriano would be shipped to the Braves, while the Mariners would receive Hudson and Atlanta first baseman Adam LaRoche in return.

Source: Seattle Times

By Lew

December 6, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

Does anyone seriously believe that hilarious scenario with Seattle, LaRoche and Hudson? Let’s get real. Some hard up writer let his 8 year old kid propose that one. It certainly wasn’t the Braves. I also seriously doubt that the Braves offered Giles and LaRoche for Roberts and Penn, either. It’s been a slow news week that most writers thought would be busy and wasn’t. Both of those deals are laughable at best.

By A.J.

December 6, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

DOB, Is Baldelli still a big enough name to consider for Hudson (maybe with an add in). The Rays are looking for a veteran starter.

Would Hudson’s salary be something the Rays wouldn’t take, would the Braves want/be able to get more for Hudson. Also would the Braves give up Hudson if they weren’t expecting another starter from somewhere else?

Of course this is all assuming Crawford is not available (and I don’t see why he would be).

Also, I have heard on ESPN.com that the Braves are trying for Miguel Batista (but this is the same website that still lists them as going after Sexson), but I haven’t heard you mention him. Is there any truth in this?

By GermanBravesFan

December 6, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

not sure if this posted earlier… BUT: I hope this is NOT true (found this on Yahoo)!!!

The Seattle Mariners have asked the Baltimore Orioles about some of their developing arms and found themselves back in the forefront of yet another three-way trade rumor that would see them land Atlanta Braves starter Tim Hudson.

The Hudson possibility would involve the Mariners trading first baseman Richie Sexson.

Sexson would be sent to the San Francisco Giants and reliever Rafael Soriano would be shipped to the Braves, while the Mariners would receive Hudson and Atlanta first baseman Adam LaRoche in return.

Source: Seattle Times

By Carroll

December 6, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

DOB: as much as I’d hate to see Chuckie go, the prospect of getting Rocco Baldelli seems incredible! Not only is he a fine ballplayer, but I see him as also being the Dale Murphy-type who could draw a new generation of Braves fans for years to come! That is my perception of him anyway….don’t know a whole lot about him for fact. Plus, I wonder how much longer James will continue to be effective…it seemed like the more teams saw him last year, th emore they figured him out. You can only go so far with a fastball that rivals some slow-pitch softball pitchers.

As far as Baldelli, Would he be an ideal leadoff man or is he more of a number 3-4 type? Surely if we do get him that means AJ is a goner, right?

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

Thanks Carolina Lady… Well, I really want this Gonzales trade to happen. We all thank the Lord for Wickman, but he is not a spring chicken. This guy can be our future. he is a stud, make the trade. The way I see it, we have options at firstbase and one option at closer.

By Jamie in Richmond

December 6, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

DOB: Someone mentioned Cla Meredith. He played his college ball here in Richmond at VCU and had one hell of a rookie season last yr with the Pads. If SD won’t give up Linbrink, do you think we could atleast get Meredith? Would we even be interested?

By Josh

December 6, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Dave, I hear all those Baldelli rumors cocerning the Braves.

Do you know if the Braves have possibly looked into a Marcus Giles/Chuck James/Ryan Langerhans for Crawford/Baldelli trade? Or just for Crawford.

I really don’t think that Langerhans, or Johnson are lead off hitters I prefer a true speedy lead off hitter such as Furcal was, or a Reyes type, since we tried Giles there last year and didn’t get the job done, we need a person to get on base and steal not a person just to get on base beacuse I think we were at the bottom of the MLB in steals.

By Bobby Cox

December 6, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

JS, Move the ‘Roach’. I’m tired of babysitting.

By KC

December 6, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan:

“Geez… Tell me this isn’t true”

Very well then… It isn’t true!

Scroll up and check out David O’Brien’s posts in this very issue. It’s utter nonsense.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 6, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

matthew, journalist jimmy smith has forwarded a message to journalist bob but there has been no response. this journalist would speculate that bob is in the tub or is napping. possibly bob is napping in the tub. oh, the humanity! some things never change.

By Glass Half Full

December 6, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

ROCCO! ROCCO! ROCCO!

By John from Dunwoody

December 6, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

I like LaRoche but his value is probable at the highest right now. Slim chance that he can duplicate last year. He would be easy to replace. Schuerholz is probably thinking very good in this potential move.

FALCONS SUCK A**!! SCREW MICHAEL VICK!

By eware

December 6, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

I don’t like this exclusive focus on pitching. I mean, we fixed our closer problem (which will greatly improve our win numbers from last year) and we have great starting pitching. Last year was just a fluke with all the injuries and Hudson’s numbers. LaRoche was our BEST clutch hitter - I’m not feeling good about this.

What exactly did Thorman prove to JS last year? Was it him running his butt off to get to first everytime he hit into a double play? After last year, I was thinking that he’d be lucky to be on the team in 2007.

We need to keep LaRoche, he’ll be less expensive this year than Reitsma was last year, and he helped us win a heck of a lot more games than Reits did.

By ray

December 6, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

I like getting Gonzalez for LaRoache. I DON’T want to see the Braves add to the package to get Gonzalez. Let’s leave Chuck James out of conversations. The kid can pitch and barring injury you are looking at a mainstay for a few years. Carl Crawford would be nice. Of course would rather have him than Rico. The 3 way with Seattle and SF is beyond stupid. Dave, there have been a few rumors of Gagne on the radar screen for the Braves. My assumption is yes IF they do not pull the trigger on the Pittsburg deal. Giles packaged in a deal would make sense. Dave, one final question, any word or have YOU heard anything of the Braves and Tigers doing more than just a little chat.

By KC

December 6, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman: “Two different Braves sources have indicated that the Braves were very close to completing a deal that would have sent both LaRoche and Giles to Baltimore in exchange for second baseman Brian Roberts and young right-handed pitcher Hayden Penn.”

DOB… Did that trade really almost happen???

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

The Angels wont trade Ervin Santana for M. Ramirez, why would JS trade C. James for R. Baddeli? Makes no since. We dont need him that bad. I think C. James can bring a lot more than R. Baddeli.

I know what it is, people sitll caught up on the fact that we need a lead off hitter more than pitching.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 6, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

I’m suprised to see no Horacio Ramirez rumors floating around.

By A.J.

December 6, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

Josh,

Don’t mean to be a bubble burster, but if the Rays want Chuck James (who is the most valuable Brave in this list) for Baldelli alone, then that trade assumes that the Devil Rays would give up Crawford (probably their best or second best player) for two players that are far from top line.

You have to remember that the other team has to want what we offer them. They have a second baseman, so Giles is of little value to them (plus just had a poor season), and Langerhans is basically in terms of value not even the best backup outfielder around.

It does not make up for the fact that they are giving us a great player just because give them two solid players (not to mention two solid players who have little value for them). Not to mention if we got Baldelli and Crawford that would give us 4 All-Star quality outfielders.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 6, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

It kills me to see rumors of the Braves sending Huddy & LaRoche somewhere for second tier players. Much like some of the comments I have seen here (LaRoche, Huddy & Davies to the Angels for Figgins & Shields/Santana). I would just as soon they put a gag order on all “sources”, reporters (no offense DOB - you know we all admire you - well, with perhaps one unmentionable exception), and just tell us when the deal is done. In the meantime, I’m giving up reading the current novel I am working on and getting my fill of fiction through the rumors flying around.

CL - nice to see you - I haven’t been on in a while - work, work, work. Cooked any good cornbread, pancakes or biscuits lately??

By A.J.

December 6, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

The Seattle rumors just keep getting more ridiculous.

This is just another example of supposed journalists who:

1. Are too big of fans and not good enough journalists to go beyond what they hope and want into what is possible.

or

1. Are just ridiculously unethical journalists and post things that are catagorically untrue because you can call them “rumors” in hopes that they lead to something impossible coming out of thin air. It doesn’t matter if the person who started the rumor is the same one printing it.

By ncscoots

December 6, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

Please! The Rays are gonna give Upton another shot at 3B this year, and Elijah Dukes is slated for more AB at DH than anywhere else. Until Upton utterly fails at 3B (prompting a move to the outfield), and/or Dukes starts making like ROY, the Rays aren’t quite as hip-deep in outfielders as everyone seems to think. NEXT year, they might think of moving ONE (depending on circumstances), but they sure as Joe Jackson ain’t gonna move TWO of them THIS year.

By NCBravesFan

December 6, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

The laughable rumors that have been trotted out on other web sites remind us how lucky we are to have DOB keeping this blog real. As for Hudson being traded at this point, it makes sense to me only if the Braves think they have a shot at signing Andruw in 2007 … and they think that they’ll be able to develop or acquire a SP along the way to fill the void.

By hk

December 6, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady,

.. oh, I’m still here, just in a semi-dormant state :))

… incredible, this blog has over 300 messages, and only 22 hours after original posting !!! … don’t remember that many in a day any time last summer … hot stove is heating up big time …

.. and Journalist Bob, if you’re watching, no ‘imitators’ that I can see during this period ..

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

I wonder how long DOB will wait to post a new blog. Even if it is a generic one just to keep this one from bogging down. It is a great one today though. Good job DOB and the bloggers!

By KC

December 6, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

futurebravesgm2413:

I’m not terribly surprised because the Braves have said all along that they want to strengthen (and don’t want to do anything to deplete the depth of) their pitching.

I think the only reason you’re hearing the Hudson rumors is that there was talk of his being traded to make room for Glavine. This had led all the talking heads to believe that the Braves are anxious, or at the very least, quite willing to ship Hudson off. I don’t think that’s at all accurate. If the rumors (of shopping Hudson to make room for Glavine) rumors were true, it was only with the thought of adding Glavine in mind.

None of the Braves starters will be traded unless it’s to replace that particular starter with someone even better.

By Jman

December 6, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

DOB - Mark Bowman has an article on atlantabraves.com where he is saying that Boras had left the door slightly open to possible Andruw deal.

“But when asked if there were any circumstances that could lead Jones to waive his no-trade clause, Boras seemingly provided some indication that the Braves could be working a deal that could cause the Gold Glove center fielder reason to weigh this decision.

Article

“Obviously there is new information,” Boras said. “In this situation, it’s something that Andruw has control over. I would imagine since his home’s [in Atlanta] and his family’s [in Atlanta] that he will be [in Atlanta] this year.”

There is some thought that Jones would potentially waive his no-trade clause if he had the opportunity to be reunited with Rafael Furcal in Los Angeles. But there’s also a belief that the Dodgers would be hesitant to make this deal that seemingly would make them overwhelming favorites to win the National League West.”

Have you heard anything on this front?

By Lew

December 6, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Now lets see here. You have Chuck James, a young, very inexpensive pitcher, who went 12-4 for a sub-500 team, destined to become a top of the line pitcher on a team trying to improve their pitching. On the other hand you have Rocco Baldelli, a decent outfielder who just came back after missing a year and a half with a variety of injuries and has never hit more than 16 HR’s and not only do Brabes fans compare him to Dale Murphy, a power hitter who played every day andyou want to pull the string on this deal? I tell you-the lunacy gets worse and worse.

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

I dont ever want to hear the name “Reitsma” ever again. UGH. Bad memories…..

By A.J.

December 6, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Folks can’t just keep calling Hudson’s last season a “fluke.” His numbers have steadily declined year after year starting with his last year in Oakland.

He has had serious trouble recently with control (consider his strike out to walk ratio and number of homeruns), particularly in both 05 and 06.

I don’t think he’s done.

I think that using the K:BB ratio the sabermetric guys like to write him off, and scouts like to do it because of his smaller size.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true, but the fact is he has had a serious problem missing spots and that’s why he has struggled.

That can be fixed, but at the same time, until he does fix it, he is a gamble, no doubt about it. Especially since if he is worse this year, there is no chance to deal him next year when he gets his raise.

So, you can hope and believe he will get better, but it would not be wise to just completely write off last season.

By Aaron

December 6, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

Pirate fan here. As a guy who saw Gonzales pitch day in day out. I must tell you this guy is awsome. He’s lights out. Know one could touch him last year. A lot of the time he was the best part of the game to watch, but the main thing my Pirates need is another lefty power hitter to hitting around Jason Bay, and our bullpen is are strength, so losing Gonzales wouldn,t be the end of the world. I would hete to see him go, but we need power, and if this is how we got to do it, so be it. I think it’s a fair trade for both teams.

By Stinky

December 6, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

Flatulence Forces Plane to Land NASHVILLE, Tenn. — It is considered polite to light a match after passing gas. Not while on a plane.

An American Airlines flight was forced to make an emergency landing Monday morning after a passenger lit a match to disguise the scent of flatulence, authorities said.

THAT WASN’T ME!!! I never fly AA.

By A.J.

December 6, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

I also wish that people would stop crucifying Reitsma.

You can’t do that when you want to build a winning team.

Reitsma would be stupid to stay here what with the way people treat him. Even if he did do well, one bad outing and people would want his throat again.

He was awful last year, but if he is better in spring training this year, better than the other guys who are possible, then we should be a Brave. Maybe with a short leash at first, but still.

Sure we should be wary of someone after a year like last year, but there is a good reason that may explain all of his troubles last year.

We shouldn’t just accept it as fact, but when you alienate a player like that (and don’t think it doesn’t affect them), you take away one more option that your team might have had to fill a hole.

By Bubba O'Brien

December 6, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

i dont care what Chuck James’ numbers were for a sub-500 team. i dont think he has as much potential as some think.

Add this with the fact that i think we are in a good situation to move 1 of our starting pitchers. Since HoRam hasnt had any takers i would not at all be disappointed in losing James. IN FACT! i would rather have Davies than James.

Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Davies/James, and HoRam

If we can move Roachie and Giles for relief help then i say move one of the young ones for LF/leadoff/OBP production.

As for those Adam LaRoache lovers that seemed to have popped up from nowhere. Do you remember him running the bases at the Astros series? I know I know, “he was sick” but hes not a speed burner on the bases. He has to hit homeruns otherwise hes slow enough to get thrown out on the bases. I like him but not as much as i like pitching.

I stil think we need to either add some run production or at least fortify the right side of the diamond with defense if we lose Giles and Roach. They are both Gold Glove talents.

So like i said i like LaRoache but not as much as i love p u s s y….oops sorry i mean pitching!

By KC

December 6, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Mitchie-san:

First of all, welcome to the Braves blogging family!

I know I’ll get blasted for this, but it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest to see Reitsma in Orlando with the Braves this spring.

If in fact it was a health issue that caused most of Reitsma’s struggles, then I’m willing to accept the possibility that a healthy Reitsma could contribute.

But here’s the thing everyone has to keep in mind… Reitsma is going to have to earn anything he may get. He’ll have to win a job on the major league roster, and if he makes it, he’ll have to win a noteworthy role in the ‘pen’ (if he can). Hey… if he earns it, he earns it. More power to him.

You don’t have to worry about things being the way they were last year, when BC had to keep sending him out there, desperately hoping he would straighten out because he didn’t have any other options in that pathetic early season bullpen last year. The Braves will have plenty of options, so there won’t be much patience for a guy throwing in-game batting practice. And Reitsma would likely get less leeway than most after what happened last year.

Again, they were painfully patient with Reitsma last year only because of his prior (quality) performance with Atlanta, and more importantly, the fact that they didn’t have any other good options. But this year, he will get only what he earns fair and square… and there’s nothing wrong with that.

By elbravox

December 6, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Having a 80 million cap is a blessing in disguise. When the market corrects itself, and it will, these contracts will look even worse than those given out in 2000. I do not buy the “baseball is awash with money” theory. Only the usual suspects are paying up the big bucks. No middle or small market team has sign anyone of relevance. For 25 teams in this league, the words ‘free agents’is a cruel joke. Baseball is economically segregated.

By TJ

December 6, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

I know that the idea of moving Chipper to 1st is a non-starter in the eyes of most here, but… If Laroche goes to Pittsburg for Gonzalez we could keep Giles, play Chipper at 1st, have Aybar at 3rd and leading off, and use Thorman as a back-up at 1st and left field. Then call it a day.

By Salty55

December 6, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

B O’Brien You flunked…not funny at all!

By bulldog

December 6, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

DOB any truth to these Baldelli rumors posted by Bill Shanks?

Bill Shanks updates the news from the Winter Meetings in Orlando.

While John Schuerholz was somewhat pessimistic Tuesday about making a trade, the word around the lobby of the Winter Meetings hotel Wednesday was much more positive.

Sources say the deal with Pittsburgh involving Braves first baseman Adam LaRoche and Pirates’ closer Mike Gonzalez could be completed tonight. The two teams are talking about additional players that could be included in the deal.

The Braves are content with the option of using Scott Thorman to replace LaRoche at first base if a trade occurs.

Also, the Braves and Devil Rays “have made progress” on talks involving Tampa Bay outfielder Rocco Baldelli. The Devil Rays want Braves’ catching prospect Jarrod Saltalamacchia and some pitching. The Braves do not appear willing to part with lefty Chuck James, but Kyle Davies may be a possibility.

Baldelli played in center for Tampa Bay but would play left in Atlanta. If Andruw Jones leaves as a free agent next winter or is traded beforehand, Baldelli would be his replacement in center. Baldelli hit .302 for the Devil Rays last year with 16 home runs and 57 runs batted in. He’s an above average defensive player who is still young (only 25) and inexpensi

By KC

December 6, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

Here’s how the bullpen picture looks right now:

5 of the bullpen roles are likely already set:

• Wickman: Closer

• Yates: Likely to be used in late inning situations

• McBride: Primarily a lefty-on-lefty specialist, but not solely

• Paronto: Ground-ball, double-play specialist

• Villareal: Long-relief

Mike Gonzales???? Boyer? Sturtze? Reitsma?

Assuiming the Braves get Gonzales or another setup man, there will be a couple of odd guys out. Especially it the Braves pursue another lefty (not likely if they get Gonzales, who is a lefty, but still a possibility).

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

Hudson is still cheap this year. he doesnt get expensive until 2008. I say see how he starts the year out and if he isnt what we want, trade him at the deadline. Yeah, we wont get much, but its better than paying his salary. Use the money we save to get somone then. He may bouce back and come out the box like the Hudson of old.

By The Grinch

December 6, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

Whoever did the Samuel Jackson thing on the plane earlier…that was priceless. Is it just me, or has that man taken the term MF to another level? Possibly even an art form.

By TommyB

December 6, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Afternoon all…

TN-Man: According to this article by Mark Bowman of MLB.com, JS does have an Andruw thing working, as Boras relays it to Bowman.

By KC

December 6, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

TJ:

They’re not going to move Chipper, and a Thorman/Ward platoon at 1B should be very productive.

No one knows how good Thorman might be, but he tore up AAA last year like nobody’s business. We’ll just have to wait and see what kind of major league hitter he turns out to be, but I think he’s definitely earned that shot.

By Matthew

December 6, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Wow-I wonder, bulldog, if these rumors are true, how busy the blog will be in the next few days!

JJS, hopefully Bob will not get wrinkled fingers from the tub-that could make blogging very difficult!

At least he doesn’t have a toe for a thumb-no, I promised not to discuss that any more!

By Salty55

December 6, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

KC Agreed on Reitsma…too! Sheesh…you’re why I infrequently post…you’ve already written my thoughts! Scary!

CL and JJS On pie…another favorite topic Mitchie-san…my wife made a ‘no-bake’ pumpkin pie…now that’s an oxymoron. Suffice to say, that recipe will never be resurrected! Then again, I only like the pumpkin seeds…and pumpkin bread. Sorry for digressing…back to baseball!

By krath

December 6, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Wasn’t Bill Shanks the guy who reported last week that the Braves had already agreed to a contract with Glavine?

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

Arigato KC…. I understand he was hurt and Bobby over used him (extremely overused!), but he never told anyone he was hurt until it was way too late! I cant feel sorry for the guy. to me, it was his fault…(well Bobby’s too)….

By DeWayne

December 6, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

Who is this Bulldog and why does he keep copying premium stuff from Bill Shanks?

By KC

December 6, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Wednesday, December 06, 2006

By Dejan Kovacevic, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — The Pirates are plenty eager to trade for Atlanta first baseman Adam LaRoche, and they have offered closer Mike Gonzalez to get him.

But the Braves are waiting to make sure Gonzalez is healthy, and that has left a potentially done deal in total limbo.

Gonzalez did not pitch after Aug. 24 because of tendinitis in his left elbow. The elbow was examined Aug. 28 with an arthrogram, a procedure in which dye is injected into the affected area to enhance the test’s images, and no damage was detected. Gonzalez was back to pitching in side sessions by the final week of September.

Because he did not pitch again in a game, though, Atlanta officials have raised a red flag about a trade that otherwise already would have been executed, according to multiple sources.

By clvclv

December 6, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Hey bulldog, any chance you’re 12? Ever heard of plagiarism? Don’t cut-and-paste stuff like that, it’s protected by law.

By weso1

December 6, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Stop posting Bill’s articles on this site without his permission you jack—s.

By The Grinch

December 6, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

KC, getting rid of Hudson wouldn’t be “depleting” our pitching. :-) As for Reitsma, I wouldn’t have any problem seeing him with the Braves in Orlando either, so long as all he was doing was getting everyone gatorade or holding Wicky’s spitcup for him. There should be a sniper installed on the dugout rooftop to take him out should he appear to approach the mound, though.

By KC

December 6, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

Mitchie-san: “Hudson is still cheap this year. he doesnt get expensive until 2008. I say see how he starts the year out and if he isnt what we want, trade him at the deadline. Yeah, we wont get much, but its better than paying his salary. Use the money we save to get somone then. He may bouce back and come out the box like the Hudson of old.”

Here, here!!

By Jim

December 6, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

Having a low spending TARGET is a good idea and avoids the pitfall of overpaying for a free agent, but having a well-known inflexible cap is probably a real handicap to JS in trying to make deals. If other clubs know that he HAS to trade Giles to unload salary, they are much more likely to low-ball in their offers. If there are only a few places where a Giles can be traded to and those places know it, they can aford to minimize what they offer in return. I suspect this is a big reason why nothing seems to be happening. JS will have to be an exceptional poker player and know when (and how long) to hold ‘em if he’s going to get equal value in return. I suspect that once Giles (or Hudson) is traded and the need to reduce payroll is no longer urgent, other more productive deals can be made. (I don’t count a LaRoch for Gonzalez trade in this since it’s more or less a straight dsalary swap.)

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Konichiwa Salty55! Unfortunatly I cant cook worth a darn…I do like cheese though ;)

By DeWayne

December 6, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

Just out of the mouth of Bill Shanks Horacio Ramirez to Seattle for Raphael Soriano

By KC

December 6, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Alright Grinchy, whatever you say. =)

According to the Braves’ tentative 07’ schedule, the last weekend home series of the year will be against the Brewers (sept. 21-32). I’m just telling you so that you can budget accordingly (for the beverages).

By Ludwig

December 6, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Trade Roberts and Penn for La Roche & Giles isn´t good Atlanta has two player who can play as leadoff Hitter kelly Jonhson & Willy Aybar The Braves needs two Relievers via trade Giles & Ramírez or Davis

By tfbrave

December 6, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

Shanks has Horacio to Seattle for Rafael Soriano as a done deal. Confirm please.

By BB FAN

December 6, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

I would love to see the Braves make two of the rumored trades: First, LaRoche for Mike Gonzalez would be great for the bullpen. Gonzalez would be a great set up man for Wickman and then take over for him later.

The second one, Saltalamacchia and Davies for Rocco Baldelli (who’s only ~25) would help the outfield greatly and help offset the loss of LaRoche. I think Baldelli is easily capable of hitting .300 w/ 20 HRs and 20 Steals and a .345 OBP. He would fit nicely into centerfield if Andruw decides to listen to greedy Borass and leave. Of course I think the Rays would ask for one more player besides Salty and Davies though. Depending on who it is, it would still be worth it.

By greg

December 6, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

Just done Ramirez for Rafael Soriano from the Mariners.

By KC

December 6, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

Salty55:

If only guys like Grinch and Lew were as smart as you! Oh well, they’ll come around. lol!

(just kidding guys)

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 6, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

CL and other ladies present, skip this post.

Grinch,

An Artform???? You bet. And Pulp Fiction is his masterpiece.

“You’re gonna blow??. Well, I’m a mushroom-cloud laying MF-er, MF-er!!!”

“Now, reach in their and pull out my wallet.”

“Which one is it?”

“It’s the one that says BAD MF-er.”

By TN-MAN

December 6, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

Excellent news for Braves fans. Braves dump Ramirez salary and get a great bullpen arm in Soriano. Nice move.

By DHD

December 6, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

With Soriano coming, will this end the Gonzales deal?

By Jim

December 6, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Can someone give me some info about Raphael Soriano. Since he plays for an AL team on the West Coast, I am not very familiar with him. Thanks.

By mariner

December 6, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

I think the HoRam for Rafael Soriano is a great deal for the Braves. Soriano has been terrific for the M’s. He’ll nail down the 7th or 8th and definitely has closer potential. Wouldn’t mind seeing him get a chance to start, either.

By KC

December 6, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

tfbrave:

With all do respect to Bill Shanks… he hasn’t been on the money about very much so far this winter.

That R.Soriano deal doesn’t make any sense if the Braves are sincerely perusing Mike Gonzalez. And since the Braves are willing to give up LaRoche, that proves that they are determined not to give up pitching to get pitching if at all possible.

I seriously doubt that rumor.

By Carroll

December 6, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

BB: I too am jazzed about the Baldelli rumor but think that Davies and Salty are MORE than enough for him. In fact, I think we should be able to get him for JUST Salty, but that’s just me.

GREAT move trading HoRam for Soriano!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bring on Gonzo and we’ll have the best bullpen in the NL!!!

By KC

December 6, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

greg: WHO said that deal is “done”???

By Carroll

December 6, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

KC: yes we traded pitching for pitching, but it’s more like we traded a Ford Festiva for a brand new Mustang. A tremendous upgrade! And Shanks is usually pretty reliable when he actually reports that a trade has gone down (as opposed to his speculaiton that Glavine would likely be coming back to Atl).

By JasonInMaine

December 6, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

If this Soriano deal is legit, does that mean the Braves have cooled off on wating Gonzales? Is he not healthy? DOB, are the health concerns what you were talking about earlier that was hanging up the deal? Also, I am guessing that the HoRam deal would call off the deal with TB? I this isn’t true as I would rather have these two trades go through than the one for Soriano!

By KC

December 6, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

I cannot find any validation at all for this supposed H.Ramirez-R.Soriano deal. I have serious doubts that this is for real.

By Jamie in Richmond

December 6, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

KC: Nobody that I know of. I don’t see confirmation of it anywhere.

That said, if you look up Sori’s numbers, they’re pretty spectacular. If this deal does in fact go down, I just hope JS doesnt stop here. Gonzalez should still be the target, IMO.

By clvclv

December 6, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

“And since the Braves are willing to give up LaRoche, that proves that they are determined not to give up pitching to get pitching if at all possible.”

Since when did giving up Homeracio and giving up Pitching become the same thing???

By Salty55

December 6, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Trade a (leftie) starter for a reliever…straight up? This one’s a bit hard to believe.

By KC

December 6, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

Anyone have a link to this Bill Shanks report?

If this deal has happened, it’s not been reported on the AJC site, the Seattle Times site, ESPN, FoxSports, or anywhere else that I can see.

By john

December 6, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this

First on braves.scout.com —Horacio Rameriez has been traded to seattle for Rafael Soraino

By KC

December 6, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

Jamie in Richmond:

I looked up R.Soriano’s numbers mid-way through last year when the Braves were desperate for relief, and I thought he looked good then… and still do.

That said, he pitched in only 13 games in 2004 and 2005 combined. Isn’t the reason so many here want to get rid of HoRam is that he’s injury prone???

13 games over 2 seasons… doesn’t exactly sound like we’re getting Iron Man in return if the rumors are true.

By KC

December 6, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

Okay… I saw the Bill Shanks report.

http://braves.scout.com/2/598302.html

I’m still going to have to hear word from DOB, Braves officials, or one of the big national networks before I completely swallow this one.

By KC

December 6, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

still no confirmation anywhere… very fishy.

By Not a big Castillo fan

December 6, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

I really dont want Jose Castillo.

By joe

December 6, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Soriano

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

KC and everyone else who needs mutiple sources,

Wonder why some people need multiple sources, after all Bob Shanks is a “journalist”. Everyone believes the San Fransico Journalist. I know…I know…just had to point it out.

I too need mutiple sources.

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

wikipedia?????are you serious?

By mariner

December 6, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

KC,

Soriano had Tommy John surgery which kept him out for a year. His record last year indicates that he has recovered. Originally, I think the M’s wanted him as a starter, but got scared off a bit by the injury/surgery and have kept him in relief since then.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

I think DOB had the scoop on the Gonzo story…the pitt. paper is reporting it is done pending health eval by the braves.

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

Soriano and Gonzales????? If both of these prove tobe true….Holy Guacamole.

By joe

December 6, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

Mitchie-san….just thought it was a strange coincidense that’s the only other place it showed up

By JasonInMaine

December 6, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

DOB,

You getting the scoop? Are the other trades dead now that it is reported we have Soriano? We miss you DOB!

Regards, Jason

By Salty55

December 6, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t it show on Wikipedia because of the scout.com posting? I guess that’s one way to get multiple ‘confirmations’! :-}

By Mitchie-san

December 6, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

that is kinda weird…well we all know wikipedia isnt exactly know for the truth. I gotta admit though, that was pretty quick. (If its true)

By mariner

December 6, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

This is from the USS Mariner blog, filed under the heading Ugh:

“The M’s have apparently sent Rafael Soriano to the Braves for Horacio Ramirez.

Hudson and LaRoche it isn’t. Horacio Ramirez is 27, has a long history of arm problems, and couldn’t strike me out. He’s a pretty significant groundball guy, so he can sustain some success if he’s throwing strikes (think Kenny Rogers), but he’s not an impact guy. He’s the kind of #4 or #5 starter you try to pick up on the cheap or develop from within.

I was in favor with dealing Soriano before his arm exploded, but not for this.”

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6245076

does not mention it’s done though…I dont like it…the soriano deal…bad juju trading a strater for a reliever. IMO

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 6, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6245076

does not mention it’s done though…I dont like it…the soriano deal…bad juju trading a strater for a reliever. IMO

By Wayne

December 6, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

If the Soriano rumor is true, he could be quite a find, and maybe a future potential middle range starter??

Hope the Gonzo thing works out.

By berigan

December 6, 2006 06:20 PM | Link to this

Wow! Lotsa posts today! Didn’t even get down to the bottom yet! Shawn Shawn, you said you didn’t get the interest in Rocco. Well, it’s as you pointed out, he doesn’t walk much(Think Frenchy) but He is an excellent outfielder(Think Langershams with the ability to hit) and even after missing a season and a half, is only 25! He tied his career high of 16 homers last year, in only 94 games. His speed is back as well. I’m not saying he is worth Chuck James mind you. But they only won 61 games last year, and have just unbelievable prospects/players at the ML level, so they need to part with some of them. Perhaps we can keep talking with the Devil Rays beyond the Winter meetings as work something out.

By Carolina Lady

December 6, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this

re Soriano’s photo: nice earrings.

hk, great to know you’re still here!!

Scalp, been cookin’ and cookin’! Somewhere along the line, I need your biscuit recipe. Don’t know what happened to the copy I had - it’s just gone! (Please??) :-))

Grinch, Ark. Hillbilly - 4 demerits for each of you! I’m shocked! Just shocked, I tell you!! sigh…..

By The Grinch

December 6, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

CL, don’t tell me you don’t own a DVD of “Pulp Fiction.” If you haven’t seen it, by all means do. It’s kind of like “Sense and Sensibility” or “My Big Fat Greek Wedding.” You’ll love it.

As for these rumors, if we get Soriano and Gonzalez, whatever are we to do with Reitsma and Foster? I don’t like it. :-)

By Carolina Lady

December 6, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

OK, Green One, I won’t tell you that I don’t have a copy of that and have never seen it. :-)

By Carolina Lady

December 6, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this

DOB has a new blog up!

By mariner

December 6, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

This is from the USS Mariner blog, filed under the heading Ugh:

“The M’s have apparently sent Rafael Soriano to the Braves for Horacio Ramirez.

Hudson and LaRoche it isn’t. Horacio Ramirez is 27, has a long history of arm problems, and couldn’t strike me out. He’s a pretty significant groundball guy, so he can sustain some success if he’s throwing strikes (think Kenny Rogers), but he’s not an impact guy. He’s the kind of #4 or #5 starter you try to pick up on the cheap or develop from within.

I was in favor with dealing Soriano before his arm exploded, but not for this.”

By ray

December 6, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

Foxsports is now reporting the Soriano deal is in its final stages. Does that kill the Pittsburgh deal. I hope not. There is no comparison between the two. Gonzalez is far superior. Not all that hyped up on Rocco. Yes he is young. He has pretty good speed. Not the ideal lead off guy. Crawford would be the fit. There are a couple of sources now talking about AJ. Anyone else seeing or hearing anything on that front?

By ray

December 6, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this

MLB.com is reporting that the braves ARE only waiting clearance on Gonzalez health. He is quoted as saying he got the complete green light before the season was over. Soriano is also stating he would like to become a starter.

By DPizzle

December 6, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

The Gonzalez deal is going to be done, it makes too much sense for both sides. I live in Pittsburgh and everyone here thinks it’s a great trade, we need a lefty with power more than anything. Also, Gonzalez is healthy. In fact he was ready to come back at the end of the season, but with the Bucs being so bad, there was no point in risking anything. He’s an unreal closer so it’ll be tough to see him go, but you got to get to the 9th with a lead for a closer to really matter.

By dee will

December 6, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard on scount.com that the braves traded Horacio Ramiez to the Seattle Mariners for Rafael Soriano. Personnally this is a great steal for the braves. Soriano was 1-2 last season for the Mariners with a 2.25 ERA in 53 games. He allowed 44 hits in 60 innings pitched, 15 earned runs, 21 walks, and 65 strikeouts. The hard-throwing reliever turns 27 in a few weeks. Also scout.com said The Braves are also close to a trade that would acquire reliever Mike Gonzalez from the Pirates in exchange for first baseman Adam LaRoche. But the Braves are waiting to verify Gonzalez’s health. Particularly, his left elbow. This trade to me will be an o.k. one. That trade would leave a void at first, second, left field. The braves can put chipper at first but the belongs to the future star Jarrod Salty in my opinion. Ken Rosenthal wrote at foxsports.com that the braves are also intersted in Roco Baldelli, but I believe thats not going to happen. Lastly espn insider says that the braves our strong suitors for free agent pitcher Miguel Batista.

By ray

December 6, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

Okay.. enough is enough… have to put a ban on the “Chipper moving to First.” It is not going to happen and he cannot play First. Its not that easy. We have guys like Thorman and Ward that can play it if we do not have LaRoche. Lilly signs with the Cubs according to Fox. hmmm same years, 4 million more than the Yanks offered. I guess the Pressure of NY was not to Lilly’s liking. Anything it takes to see the yanks NOT get stronger is always a good thing.

By Another BillyBoy

December 6, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

I would like to take the time to thank Bill Shanks for being to the first to break this news abot the Ramirez/Soriano trade. We have been discussing the trade for hours and hours on http://braves.scout.com/2/598302.html

Bill Shanks at the same time he announced that deal mentioned another couple of deals that were in the works, especially the LaRoche for Gonzalez possibility. Thanks again Bill for the scoops or scoopage as you put it.

By Tyler

December 6, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

I would like to see this:

Braves deal Laroche to Pittsburgh for Gonzalez, straight up.

Braves deal Giles for a power starter, or at least a proven starter, no prospects whatsoever.

Braves deal Horacio and prospects for a second baseman that can lead off, or at least a leadoff man such as Julio Lugo (is he a free agent?) or Crawford if in some way they could manage a deal.

The point is we have a closer, and Gonzalez would solve our next years problems and be an amazing 1-2 punch with Wickman. The only problem I have with this is that now we’re missing the bat we had in Laroche. I dont want to simply “fill” Laroches spot with Thorman, I would much rather improve it.

By cryingbrave

December 6, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this

I HATE TO BE THE ONE TO CRY ON ALL OF THE BRAVE’S FAN’S HOPES FOR THE FURTURE BUT JUST REMEMBER THAT I TOLD YOU BEFORE IT HAPPENS, THAT CHIPPER WILL MOVE TO FIRSTBASE,AND CONTENUE TO PLAY WELL INTO HIS 50’S THEY ALREADY OWE HIM SO MUCH MONEY!JUST LIKE JORDAN, THEY THINK THEY WILL NEVER GET TO OLD TO PLAY AND HURT THE TEAM, AND OUR GENUIS MANAGER THE LAST FEW YEARS,JUST HAS TO HAVE VETRIANS OVER ROOKIES, HE FORGOT WHAT STARTED THE WINNING STREAK IN THE BEGEANNING,ROOKIES, THEY NEED TO LOCK UP MCCANN, FRANCOUR,LAROACHE, RIGHT NOW TO LONG TEARM CONTRACTS.AND AT THE SAME TIME GET RID OF OLD WASHED UP HASBEENS, HAMPTON HES,NOT COMMING BACK, HUDSON WAS A JOKE FROM THE BEGEANNING,JORDAN DOES NOT EVEN GET AN INVITE TO SPRING-TRANING.CHIPPER NEEDS TO BR TRADED TO ANYONE WILLING TO TAKE HIM AND HIS FAT CONTRACT,AND MOST OF ALL THE BRAVE’S NEED TO COUGH UP ENOUGH MONEY TO GET LEO MAZZONE TO PLEASE COME HOME AND FIX THE MESS COX AND SO CALLED PITCHING-COACH ROGER MCDOWELL HAS DISTORYED ALL OF OUR PITCHERS CONDFINCE IN THEIR OWN TALENT.

By Another BillyBoy

December 6, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

Tyler, Bill Shanks reported just before 4:00 pm today that Ramirez had been traded for Soriano and they were just waiting for the announcement.

At the same time he also reported that LaRoche for Gonzalez trade was almost done. The holdup was the Braves were waiting on Medical reports on Gonzalez before announcing it. They are still waiting.

By Adam

December 6, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

It doesnt look like were gettin Mike Gonzalez now. In the story of the AJC about Ramirez getting traded it also said the Braves withdrew their offer of LaRoche to the Pirates for Mike Gonzalez. Looks like were gonna go after Chone Figgins.

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 6, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

i really really hope we get figgins now! that’d be great if we’re able to do that, and the braves just might do it without getting a pitcher in return.

By dee will

December 6, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien’s latest for the AJC confirms that the Braves have traded starter Horacio Ramirez to the Mariners for Rafael Soriano. Unless I’m missing something, John Schuerholz pillaged and maybe even plundered Bill Bavasi.

Additionally, the Braves have withdrawn their offer of Adam LaRoche for Mike Gonzalez. That makes sense given the completion of the Soriano deal. O’Brien opines that Atlanta could re-engage the Angels, hoping to acquire some combination of Chone Figgins, Casey Kotchman, and a pitcher. Your welcome my fellow bloggers.

By dee will

December 6, 2006 10:11 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien’s latest for the AJC confirms that the Braves have traded starter Horacio Ramirez to the Mariners for Rafael Soriano. Unless I’m missing something, John Schuerholz pillaged and maybe even plundered Bill Bavasi.

Additionally, the Braves have withdrawn their offer of Adam LaRoche for Mike Gonzalez. That makes sense given the completion of the Soriano deal. O’Brien opines that Atlanta could re-engage the Angels, hoping to acquire some combination of Chone Figgins, Casey Kotchman, and a pitcher. Your welcome my fellow bloggers.

By dee will

December 6, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal wrote Mariners and Braves have agreed to swap Soriano for Horacio Ramirez, pending medical reviews and physicals. The Braves are also waiting for other deals to fall in place. One report indicates they would try and spin Soriano to Tampa Bay as part of a package to acquire Rocco Baldelli and the Braves would satisfy their bullpen by adding Mike Gonzalez for Adam LaRoche.

By Terry

December 6, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this

Ok, thanks for the info. But, I have a comment, and I welcome feedback. First, Hudson needs to go. Dump him! He hurt the Braves more than he helped. Hampton is who we need to be concerned about. Will he doop us like Kyle Davies did when he returned? Hello? Have we forgot about Chuck James? The boy is bad…and should be in the top three on the rotation. Horacio Ramirez? Dump him! He’s almost as bad as Hudson. The Braves goofed by letting Ted Lilly get by! And then LaRoche? Why the H*, would you give away or consider it, a man that is starting to heat up? Dumb Dumb Dumb! LaRoche is an ace at first base! Ok, the Braves need to dump Ramirez, Hudson, Giles and Davies. They COULD have gotten Lilly, or even Soriano - a led off man. I know I know, the salary is only 80 million. But get this….have any of you been watching some of the minor league players? We have some aces in there. Such as Acousta. I think that is his name. Joey devine is ready! As I type this, I have learned that Horacio Ramirez got traded to Seattle for Rafael Soriano. One down, so many more to go. Now back to what I was saying, Chad Paronto and Macay McBride are good ones…and I think the Braves need another ace starting pitcher - only because I am scared Hampton, will fail us - leaving us only Smoltz and James and maybe Davies. However Oscar Villareal may be a saver.

By mike

December 7, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

The Pittsburg newspaper is singing a different song about the Gonzalez/LaRoche trade. The Pirates are saying JS left them hanging after they had given him medical records for Gonzalez. The Pirates very much wanted to complete the trade and said JS “completely fabricated” the story about their GM being unable to make up his mind.
My question is that this seems to be sort of the same operating procedure that we saw with Glavine. I don’t know who to believe anymore.

By mike

December 7, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

See what the Pirates are saying at Post-Gazette.com/Pirates. Very different version than on AJC.