Braves

By Maine Braves Fan

December 2, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

Dave O’Brien I like your style of writing. I dont mind not having Glavine back. I think we need to focus signing other players. So good ridens to glavine and I hope JS does do some deals and starts to improve the braves.

By Paul

December 2, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

Dave,

If JS is concerned about cutting payroll, would he look at offers for Andruw? I know I’m beating a dead horse here, but with the market is where it is, how could they afford Andruw next year?

The police walked in for jimmy jazz I said, he aint here, but he sure went past Oh, youre looking for jimmy jazz.

By Carolina Lady

December 2, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

TMG said he wanted to come back to ATL - family, etc. Worked all the “gentlemen’s agreement” with the Mets to free him up.

Then he said that he and Christine had made the decision to go back to NY on Wednesday, but just wanted to see what JS would offer.

He said he realized that he wanted to go back to NY more than he realized; it drew him back. Thus the Wednesday decision.

JS was spinning his wheels because Glavine had already made up his mind.

Read the various interviews and it’ll put together the whole picture in TG’s own words. My opinion has not risen.

By Calvin

December 2, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Strange off season..really strange.

By Don

December 2, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

Insane, I’ll tell you what’s insane, is JS insane? Can he not do his job? He’s so d_ intent on not yielding his hand, he can’t even speak out and woo one of the few good free agents that wants to be here? It’s his job to sell the Braves, not the player’s job to beg for a job. He’s not doing his job now. How in the world could this scenario have taken place? Surprised, why is he surprised. As DB, you mentioned, he can’t even state an off the record dollar figure to TG to show he’s serious. Just like a college football coach who can’t get it done anymore (see Bowden, Coker), it’s time to move on. Let’s get a guy in here that wants to make the team better, not just run his own personal agenda. Oh, I forgot, we really don’t have an owner that cares that would even fire the guy. This whole franchise sucks right now. If the owners and GM don’t care, then I sure as H_ don’t understand why the fans should care.

By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)

December 2, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

So true DOB. Not sure whether I’m mad, or bummed out.

Let’s hope to the high heavens that Hudson is miffed about being “on the block” and tears it up this season. I fully expect Hampton to comptete (let’s hope he holds up), and I’ll assume that Chuck James doesn’t completly fall apart.

IF all of that happens - :) - we’ll be just fine without Glavine.

I posted this next question on the “comment” blog under last nights article, maybe you can answer it for me, since sombody over there said the don’t like my books, er posts! LOL!

If JS wanted Glavine, and he “needed” to move Hudson to make it happen, WHY NOT dump Hudson to the first team “willing” to take his contract? I mean, yeah, I get that he wanted to “recieve” fair market value (Top notch prospect or ML ready pitcher), for Hudson, but essentially by freeing up money to sign Glavine, wasn’t he already getting that in the for of Glavine for Hudson? Obviously they had made up their mind that he (JS) wanted Glavine over Hudson. Why “hold out” to get somthing (more than Glavine) for Hudson. NOW LOOK WHAT THEY HAVE! Crossed fingers that Hudson doesn’t keep sliding.

Here’s to hopin’ that Glavine gets stuck at 299 and Hudson wins the SIGH Young. :)

By Joe Smoe

December 2, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

Well said DOB.

I just hope that JS doesnt pull a 2006 and not be agressive enough to fill the spots we need filled.

Although..

I would rather a fire sale, and watch players grow as opposed to watching a so, so team loose in first round of the playoffs.

By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)

December 2, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

I hear ya Carolina Lady on the “Wednesday decision”, but you have to understand (or maybe you don’t LOL!) that basically, Glavine felt betrayed the last time around. I’m GUESSING (nothing more), that by the time Wednesday rolled around, he was in a little bit of SHOCK as to why JS had not offered anything, or at least told him of his plans.

Good old fashioned p*ssing contest, and it sounds like nobody REALLY got what they wanted. Kinda reminds me of arguing with your spouse. Like when you come home and the other is obviously mad and you say “what’s wrong?”, she says “nothing” and you just kinda go……”OK!” Then you both proceed to “stew” in your own anger all night. What a shame. One of the greatest GM’s ever and a guy who not only was his teams rep for the union but the NL rep, and they can’t even talk to eachother. NO WONDER THE UNION AND THE OWNERS DON’T GET ALONG! They have NO IDEA what the others are thinking.

Everybody should learn from this, pick up the phone and call somebody you haven’t spoken with in a while. Tell them “how you feel” and that you love them. Thank You. You’ve been watching the Dr. Phil Show!

By Matthew

December 2, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

Ron Villone, Alan Embree, and David Weathers are the possibilities?

Ugh, we’re my Prilosec?

By Nathan (The guy who just made his son take down the Tom Glavine Poster)

December 2, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB.

Any chance of you posting Glavine’s and JS’s phone numbers up here, so the “people” can give em each a ring?

By Matthew

December 2, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

Remember everyone, we’ve already made some moves this year.

1. Smoltz’s option
2. re-signing Wicky
3. picked up a former #7 overall pick, Jonathan Johnson, who played for TX
4. acquired LF TJ Bonn off waiver wire from SEA
5. signed RHP Steve Colver to a minor league deal

See, and you folks were worried about the Braves not making noise in this offseason? :)

DOB, do you know anything about Johnson? A #7 overall pick sounds intriguing.

By bsumner

December 2, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

great post DOB. This whole Glavine affair seems like very immature high schoolers who broke up, want to get back together, but don’t want to tell each other face to face that. Couldn’t they at least have sent a note - even a check here type note -

_want you back and will make offer _don’t want you back

or

_want to come back _don’t want to come back

I agree and do not understand why if Glavine wanted to come back so much he did not pick up the phone and simply say “John I want to come back but I owe it to the Mets to tell them something by Friday. Are you going to give me an offer and off the record what range are we looking at?”

How hard is that? Just like 4 years ago if John and Tommy had simply been candid with each other, Glavine would be wearing a Braves uniform.

And Nathan, good point above. If JS had decided that he would rather have Glavine for the next 2-3 years than Hudson, he should have just traded him to whoever would have absorbed his salary and considered Glavine the return for the trade. With the new economics in baseball for the Braves and the Braves’ SALARY CAP, unloading salary at times is going to be just as important as what players you get in return.

Finally Time Warner Cable is a pathetic owner of the Braves. It is awful to think that JS could not go to the owner and say that he needs Glavine and needs to make an offer. Worst case scenario is the Braves salary goes up $7-8 million, but the Braves put more people in the seats, sell a lot of number 47 jerseys, and Glavine WILL help the Braves get back to the post season. Best case all the above except JS is able to unload $7-$10 million in salary and get a good return so all the benefits without the increased overhead. Unfortunately if Glavine signed before a trade, all the other GMs would have held out for a Millwood type fire sale because Time Warner Cable Will NOT support the Atlanta Braves and would have forced JS to quickly clear that money from the total salary no matter what the return. Pathetic

By NYM

December 2, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Glavine made the right choice. Why? More money and a better chance of getting to the world series in the next two years. Face it Brave fans, you’re rebuilding and your budget is more restricted.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

Continuing along the lines of theatre of the absurd _ Kansas lost AGAIN today, to freakin’ DePaul, two days after Bill Self gets a five-year contract extension. I will no longer bother any of you with comments about the embarrassingly inconsistent Jayhawks.

By tim

December 2, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this

Does Glavine have a daughter? Dude’s family is gonna be really rich for a really long time.

By Nathan (The guy who just made his son take down the Tom Glavine Poster)

December 2, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

NYM

You are right and you are WRONG.

You, IMO, are right that ultimately Glavine made the “safe” choice. However, if you don’t think adding Glavine to the Braves (they need pitching) and TAKING HIM from the Mets wouldn’t have at the very least “shifted” the power a little bit back in the Braves direction, you’re dreaming. I suspect the Mets STILL might make a run at Zito. Having said that, you’re ROTATION (or lack there of) is OLDER and JUST AS INJURED as ours is.

As far as rebuilding. Don’t think so buddy. The Marlins are REBUILDING, the Devil Rays and Royals are ALWAYS rebuildeing. The Braves “retool”. Just so happens, that for the first time in 14 years, they retooled with the WRONG TOOLS.

What was the number DOB, over 1000 games missed due to injury by various Braves players. I suspect the Mets would’ve still won the division the way they played last year. But it would take a VERY closed minded individual to not see that if the Braves had ANYBODY (Wickman) in the Closer’s roll before August, the Wildcard would’ve been theirs. Now as a Mets fan with recent history on the Braves side, would you REALLY have liked to face the Braves in the playoffs? The Mets are probably the ONLY team they could’ve beat last year, just out of hatred alone.

Rebuilding with a 13 million dollar CF, 3 starting pitchers making a combined 29 million dollars this year, and a 3b making around 10 million. Yup. What a rebuilding project JS has going on here.

Nice try.

By NCBravesFan

December 2, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

Thanks for all your work on this DOB. It’s pretty clear Glavine was not really serious about coming back to the Braves. Here’s a portion of Ben Shpigel’s story in the NY Times today …

*The Braves did not offer Glavine a contract. He said that even if they had, he would have made the same decision.

“The pull to come to New York was a very strong pull,” Glavine said in a conference call. “In the end, it’s the place where we felt like we needed to be and wanted to be. I told our 7-year-old that we’re coming back to New York, and he just about jumped out of his seat.”

Glavine said that there was no single factor that swayed his decision, although he felt bound to honor a promise he made after the season ended. He told General Manager Omar Minaya and Jeff Wilpon, the Mets’ senior executive vice president and a close friend of Glavine’s, that he would decide where he would play next season before the winter meetings began. Glavine did not want to hold up their plans.

“That would go against my word that I gave them, and that wasn’t something I was willing to do,” he said. “I was honoring my commitment to make up my mind faster.”*

By Nathan (The guy with the "smokin" keyboard.)

December 2, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

Hey! DOB.

Since JS was willing to live in the past, how bout’ an offer to Greg Maddux for about the same ammount of money as TG was willing to take, (like we ACTUALLY know what that was).

The guy can’t be ANY worse than what Hudson’s gonna give us. Plus he doesn’t get hurt. He can field his position. Not to mention the fact that nobody talks about. HUDSON CAN’T BUNT.

PS. Just kidding about Maddux. Let’s get younger and FAST. Maybe he could be pitching coach. We probably have more use for McDowell in the pen. I’m sure he can still throw, can’t he? If nothing else, maybe he’ll light a fire on sombody’s foot! LOL!

By Carolina Lady

December 2, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Nathan, I understand that perfectly. But, it was GLAVINE who wanted to come back (he thought). He knew that coming back would involve dealing with JS. My personal opinion is that he wanted to back out and return to NY and setting his own deadline (very quietly) for Friday instead of Sunday would enable him to go with his Wednesday decision while “saving face” with “they didn’t make an offer.” I’d bet a nickel to a doughnut that he knew JS would come up with an acceptable offer before Sunday pm and didn’t want to follow through. That was his way out.

(I’ve been interrupted so many times while trying to write this, I don’t know if I’ve said what I wanted to say or not!) :-)))

By Maine Braves Fan

December 2, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

screw the mutts they are going to be an old team because they are building to win now. The mutts dont fear me they just throw money around like crazy. Go Braves

By futurebravesgm2413

December 2, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

What teams could we see Horacio going to? Or does not getting Glavine make it more likely we keep Ramirez? I hope we give him another shot. A rotation of: 1. Smoltz 2. Hudson 3. James 4. Hampton 5. Ramirez That rotation is good. Plus we have Davies and Villerreal who can start as well. Don’t forget Matt Wright could have a shot too sometime in 07.

By Jared

December 2, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

Trade Tim Hudson for Tom Glavine!

Tim Hudson has been a better pitcher than Glavine, since what? 2002? 2003? Did one off-year change that?

So….are the Braves going to do ANYTHING at the winter meetings? They’ll trade Marcus Giles at the least, right? I’m worried Schuerholz will do nothing.

By Fire John Schuerholz

December 2, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

I predict that Schuerholz will do NOTHING this week except sit around with his head up his @$$.

By Jared

December 2, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

The Rangers are said to have been and still be interested in Horacio Ramirez. Could the Braves possibly get Akinori Otsuka? Would the Rangers give up their only good bullpen arm?

By Jared

December 2, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

Bill Shanks will tell you what his sources tell him the Braves will do for $39.95.

By Del

December 2, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

Does anyone else feel like this off-season is shaping up just like last years. 2007, another year without a bullpen, without a true leadoff hitter and a prayer that none of our starting rotation has to go on the DL!!!

What is it with this “my way or the highway” posture of our front office?

By Nathan (The guy with the "smokin" keyboard.)

December 2, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

Jared

Here are stat TOTALS comparing Hudson and Glavine from the beginning of the 2004 season (last 3 years)

Hudson:

39-27, 598 IP, 4.01 ERA (his teams were 260-226)

Glavine:

39-34, 621 IP, 3.65 ERA (his teams were 251-235.

Pretty darn equal on the surface. But when compared one year at a time. Glavine has been the model of consistancy (ERA wise)

2004: 3.60 2005: 3.53 2006: 3.82

Ya see. We can pretty much assume that when this season is over, as long as he stays healthy, (which he has for about 20 years - other than the false alarm health issue last year), That he will end up with around 200 IP, and ERA aroun 4.00, somewhere around 15 wins and probably won’t get HAMMERED too often.

Hudson’s last three years, however are a little “LESS” consistant to say the least.

2004: 3.53 ERA 2005: 3.52 ERA (you can take this two ways. First year in the NL/new city maybe took him a while to adjust…OR…first year NOT HAVING TO FACE A DH! ERA should’ve gone down. No?) 2006: 4.86 ERA

You see that? Almost 1.50 INCREASE in ERA. That combined with the LACK of ERA drop in the Non-DH league, tells me he’s on the DECLINE.

Glavine may be getting older, but he hasn’t DROPPED off as quickly as Hudson has. You may suggest injury problems have led to Hudson’s inconsistancies. You probably are correct. But ask yourself. When was the last time you heard of a player who had cronic, hamstring/groin/oblique pulls that they all of the sudden WENT AWAY and never showed again. Mark it down, even if it’s his health causing the decline. Hudson’s best days are behind him.

Then again, he could prove me wrong ang KICK A$$ this summer. That’s the problem though. We, along with JS has ZERO CLUE what to expect from him.

But back to the original reason to respond. Sorry to make a short point take so LONG, but my point is that I disagree with you that Hudson has been better than Glavine the last 3 years.

By Jim Hertel

December 2, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this

I was not convinced the Braves really wanted Glavine the last time, and I’m not convinced they wanted him this time either. Unless John S (as good as he’s been) has just gotten obtuse as he’s gotten older.

By Lew

December 2, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

Yesterday, I came out pretty upset with Glavine (I never have been in the past) and Billy(whatever aphabet after his name) wondered where that “vibe” came from. It’s simple. Everyone who has ever followed baseball knew damn well that the Braves would not match the Mets offer. Everyone knew the Braves would not be willing to part with draft picks to bring him back. Apparently everyone but Glavine. He repeatedly said he would pitch for either the Braves or the Mets. He knew we were trying to free up salary. Any damn fool with a computer knew it-how he and his agent didn’t is amazing to me and to any rational human. However, just like four years ago, Glavine jumped the gun and didn’t even give the Braves a chance to make an offer/counter offer. I like everyone else was waiting for Glavine to say “I want to go to Atlanta/New York. Clifton, make it happen. Was the damn fool really expecting a bidding war? Whatever, we should just move on and rwalize we were taken for fools again. Nathn-JS didn’t pull the string on Hudson because he was hedging his bets. If what happened was to happen, he had to be prepared to have a number 3 or 4 guy in the rotation. I don’t blame him in the least. Hudson may just work out alright. Now other news. I just read the newest edition of Chop Talk Magazine. There is an article by Kelly Johnson talking about his rehab and saying he would be prepared to play infield or outfield and bat leadoff. Does this tell us anything about which way the Braves are leaning? Again, Enquiring minds want to know. Good Evening, Ma’am. Are Mom and Kelly doing well?

By Nathan (The guy with the "smokin" keyboard.)

December 2, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

Lew

Good post!

I was just thinking about that the other day (Kelly Johnson playing LF and leading off).

I would be willing to bet that the leadoff issue is a “temporary” NON-issue with JS. I believe that he will start the season by solving it “in house”. Then if needed make a move.

IMO, as long as the starting rotation doesn’t have any setbacks, and with Wickman aboard from the get go, along with Blaine Boyer coming back to help out in pen, we’ll initially be fine. We may have some depth issues, but I say let the kids play.

I think offensively, that LaRoche, McCann and Francoeur are ready to carry this team. Andruw aint gonna hurt us either. LOL! But we need to prepare for life without him. As far as Chipper goes, ANYTHING we get from him is bonus. The offense being “good enough” is based on Chipper’s lack of availability. If Chipper miraculously goes injury free this year, the offense IMMEDIATELY becomes a bigger force.

For leadoff, JS has MANY choices. None of them are quite Lofton or Furcal in their prime but as good if not better than Giles, and last time I checked, we STILL scored a lot of runs last year. Those choices are:

Kelly Johnson LF

Ryan Langerhans/Matt Diaz platoon LF

Aybar 2B (more than likely a utility guy)

Prado 2b

Tony Pena Jr. 2B

Escobar LF (or maybe 2B)

Gregor Blanco LF (Yes DOB, even with ZERO HR’s LOL!)

All things considered equal, if healthy, I’d go with Kelly Johnson. Not sure why, just have a good felling about him.

By Lew

December 2, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

Nathan-Also in the Chop Talk was a complete and honest evaluation of the Braves farm system, player by player. This may surprise Head Coach, but not many others. Gregor Blanco is NOT even listed as one of the Braves top 30 prospects. He is not even on the radar.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 2, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

I agree, Kelly Johnson should get a spot somewhere. Either at 2B or LF. The only thing I think is holding him back is because he hasn’t had any action in over a year. This may mean he may be more ready sometime around June.

As for Prado. NO WAY he is ready for the big leagues. He had no extra base hits in over 150 ABs in the winter league.

I think the Braves are best off with Aybar at 2nd. He has great career numbers leading off. He plays hard and can be our solution to the leadoff problem. A platoon of Johnson and Diaz in LF would be good too.

A bench of Pena, Diaz, Orr, Ward, and Langerhans is fine.

Even if Chipper gets hurt we can always shift Aybar to 3b and have someone else fill in at 2B, since MI is where our team has the most depth.

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 2, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this

feeling….not felling! about Kelly Johnson at the end of my last post.

By brad in KY

December 2, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this

First, the Braves are fine offensively. They don’t need to sign anybody or trade anybody. Giles will be fine this year. Second, the bullpen and one more starter are the top priorities. Third, I don’t want Glavine back at those dollars. Facts are facts and pitchers his age tend to suddenly fall apart. I think that in part explains JS’ taking his time. Having both Smoltz AND Glavine, at their ages, in the rotation is playing with fire. Fourth, I can’t imagine anybody wanting Tim Hudson. That’s probably the other reason JS couldn’t get anything done with Glavine.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 2, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

Wow! Glavine sure stired up alot of discussion, he really has a pull on the ATL fans (bad or good).

DOB the lack of communication your bring up is the reason I assume that the whole story was’nt told, wheather by J.S. or T. Glavine. In my opinion, those two guys are way too smart to let something like a telephone call stop what apparently both wanted. I’m would bet a half years rent that J.S. knew T. Glavine was getting antsy by what his agent said a couple of days ago.

Now, I have defended Glavine during the last week. However, his actions and words over the last 24 hours make me regret it. When he says “I really wanted to come back to Atlanta” and then signs with the Mets after only talking to J.S. once, not to mention it was Tuesday since he or his agent talked with him. Then you dont make a phone call before you sign. I have to call B.S. However, I dont blame him for making a desion, that his preogative. What I do blame him for and which has cost him me as a general fan of his is what I precieve as ingenious pubilic comments stating he want to come back to Atlanta.

By Nick

December 2, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this

Just goes to show that the Mets run a first class organization. Glavine says this and I agree. Bravos need a lot of work to get into their class. JS is a bargain hunter and a user, treat people well and they will come back.’nuff said.

By Oregon_Braves

December 2, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

This whole situation is absolutely sickening. I mean, I’ve been checking back every hour for the last week for THIS?!? On days like this, it’s rough to be a die-hard. UGH!

By TJ

December 2, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this

Nathan, I really like your analysis in your 6:16 post. One thing that Kelly Johnson has going for him in the competion for the lead-off spot is Bobby Cox. Remember when KJ was called up in 2005 and had that horrendous 0fer streak? Cox hung with him- said he was a good player who was just having bad luck. Cox is in his corner.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 2, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

positive news

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061201&contentid=1748722&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

By Wayne

December 2, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

Tommy is gone. Oh well. The best reason to sign him would have been that the Mets would have one less serviceable starter. Other than that, good luck to the Mets finding enough SP’s.

A comment or two. JS is still the man in my book, after 15 years of great baseball. Stop the whining Braves fans, if you were a true fan, you would not be crying (like the teachers union) for more $$ to solve all your problems.

Lets sign Reitsma to an incentive laden deal, and try to get either Linebrink or Otsuka (sp) for Giles and/or Ramirez. I am still a bit reluctant to trade Ramirez though.

Thanks Dave…..

By Don

December 2, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

I just get the feeling that Glavine probably made it abundantly clear that he wanted to come back, and based on Schuerholz’s lack of/unenthusiastic response over the past 2-4 weeks, Glavine got to Wednesday and thought, “f -orget it, I don’t want to deal with that (part of a male’s body) anymore, I’ll go where I’m truly wanted”. Way to go John, who else are you going to run off over the next few years (Francouer, McCann, LaRoche)?

By Wayne

December 2, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this

Nick,

The Mets do have some class individuals in their organization, but how many consecutive division titles have they won?? Was that ONE?? What happens when we unseat them in ‘07???

Minaya will never be the exec that JS has been and is still.

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 2, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

Lew That surprises me about Blanco. Maybe not much future for him in general. But maybe we can strike lightening for ONE SEASON and trade him (ala: Charles Thomas).

Blanco may be a long shot. But hell, give the kid a shot. His number went up (NOT DOWN) when he got promoted to Richmond. Maybe we get 2 or 3 good months out of him before the “word” gets out on him.

Who knows. I just want some baseball to watch. I’d pull out my 1995 game six tape, but that would mean that I’d have to watch Glavine pitch, which quite honestly, I’m not really in the mood to do! LOL!

By Stinky

December 2, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

I want to apologize to the Blog and David O’Brien, especially, for going way too far with my comments last night. I was wrong to attack Mr. O’Brien with such vitriol.

By Glass Half Full

December 2, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

I’ve mentioned Jacque Jones before. Rosenthal reports that the Cubs are trying to move him to the Rockies, who would then deal him elsewhere. Let’s assume that deals happens. Then, how about HoRam to the Rockies for Jones. I know he isn’t a leadoff hitter, but he’s got more pop than Langerhans. Plus, he’s a lefty and so Diaz will still get some ABs. He’d be a good 7 or 8 hitter. Aybar/Prado/Nameless 2nd basemen Renteria C. Jones A. Jones McCann LaRoche Francoeur J. Jones

By Glass Half Full

December 2, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

Man, I hate USC.

By Glass Half Full

December 2, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this

And Pete Carroll is even worse. He looks like one of those guys who goes through a midlife crisis, divorces his wife, buys a convertible, and starts dating 20 year olds.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

Half Full, while HoRam might have some value, he’s not going to bring Jacque Jones in return. Not until he has a healthy season, I’d guess…. But I do like Jones a lot, and think he’d be a good fit with the Braves. Can play all three outfield spots and he’s a good all-around hitter…

Nathan, how can you look at Langerhans’ performance last season, or consider Diaz and Kelly’s lack of speed, or the lack of experience of all the other guys you listed (except Aybar, who’s got a fairly significant amount), and consider any of them as legit leadoff candidates going into the season? You’d feel comfortable with them there?

I think Aybar could probably do it, but problem is I think the Braves plan for him to be utility guy who can play plenty at 3B (good chance he’ll be needed plenty there, as we know), but not a candidate for the every-day 2B job because then who’s the regular backup 3B? Also, they didn’t play Aybar at 2B the whole time he was up, which tells me something, even though they say he can play there.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

Brad in Kentucky, you wrote: “The Braves are fine offensively. They don’t need to sign anybody or trade anybody. Giles will be fine this year. Second, the bullpen and one more starter are the top priorities.”

OK, but how do you propose they add those pitchers you mentioned without trading Giles or Hudson or someone? They can’t afford to sign them all as free agents, that’s for sure.

By Don

December 2, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this

I like the Jacque Jones idea. Then, move C Jones back to the outfield and all fly balls, no matter what field they are hit to, will be caught by Jones.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this

Nathan, believe me, if they could get Maddux for $7.5 mill next year, they would. If you hadn’t noticed, Maddux and Boras aren’t looking to take any “hometown discount” to come back to the Braves.

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 2, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this

Nice call on Pete Carroll. Anybody see Roger Daltrey on CSI last week? (or was it 2 weeks ago?)

Carroll reminds me of somebody that Will Ferrell would “play” very well.

Thank You.

In a week with emotions going from anticipation to excitement to disbelief to p*ssed off.

Laughter is STILL the best medicine.

By brian

December 2, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

DOB - with all the trash talking about Roy Williams a couple of years back when he left for UNC (couldn’t win the big one, who needs him, didn’t do much for KU, etc) I bet Roy is looking pretty good now after the KU upsets - here and in the NCAAs

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 2, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this

Nathan,

I’m glad you brought the Chop Chicks job up….we did quite well this past year…but we got no answer. Whats you agent saying?

By morris

December 2, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this

It’s starting to look like JS is becoming so arrogant and stubborn that he can’t pull off any trades or sign any free agents. Any time somebody writes a book about how great they are and goes on a book signing tour it is time to replace them. WE had a great 14 year run with JS running the show but now maybe it is time for some fresh new blood at the top.

By Bruce

December 2, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this

Half full!!!

DOB,

Do you think the Braves will be looking for an eighth inning wonder or a get out of the inning guy to replace Baez? Could Russ Springer be the one to come back to the Braves for this role? What are your thoughts on the role need? Here are some snips from MLB.com article on Houston website.

Astros don’t offer arbitration to five Desire to keep Pettitte, Clemens; Springer, Huff on back burner By Alyson Footer / MLB.com The Astros have declined to offer arbitration to all five of their free agents, general manager Tim Purpura confirmed on Friday. …Springer, who has been with the Astros since the middle of the ‘04 season, also appears to be slipping off the Astros’ radar screen, mainly because the club prefers its middle relievers to be able to pitch multiple innings.

“He’s a one-inning guy,” Purpura said. “His ERA in one inning is stellar. Go past one inning, it goes to 20.” …end of snips

Are we becoming more specialized with starters, middle-long & short, 8th and closer? It seemed to work really well for the Braves before Danys got a hot appendix.

Thanks David for the great coverage of the Glavine drama, it was great checking in for updates. Lame is a great description of the end, even though no one guessed that outcome! Bruce

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 2, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this

Billy

I waiting to hear back with an offer. My deadline is next Tuesday (but between you and me, I’m taking “my other offer” on Sunday - just to make it look like the AJC “never made an offer”).

No matter what happens. It’s NOT ABOUT THE MONEY.

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 2, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

I hear ya DOB, about Maddux.

But in reality, Atlanta isn’t that close, in fact it’s not close AT ALL to being his home town. But I suspect if the coin was right, he’d play for Bobby again.

By Carolina Lady

December 2, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

Nathan, that is funny! :-))

By Bruce

December 2, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

DOB, Even though Kansas lost are you still going to Disney World tomorrow or Monday?

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 2, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

Nathan,

My adviors tell me the same thing…who’s your guy again…I have Clifford.

By Glass Half Full

December 2, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

I know Chipper has his hot streaks, but how much longer will he be the #3 hitter? I like McCann or even LaRoche in that spot.

By TJ

December 2, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

If Kelly Johnson isn’t fast enough to lead off, could he be Chipper’s back-up at third? He was a shortstop in the minors, right? If he could, then Aybar could play every day at second and lead off. Assuming he can actually field the position. But when Giles came up there were doubts about his ability to play second as well. So you never know.

By Glass Half Full

December 2, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

JS should start looking for his #4 hitter for 2008 since Andruw will be lawww-ooon-awwwn-ooon gawwn-oon-awwww lonesome blues.

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 2, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady

I appreciate that YOU appreciate it.

But my dear lady, it’s all in the set up. For that we have Billy, and more importantly…..Tom Glavine.

By braveheart

December 2, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this

i am very stupid and ignorant BUT…..

how come every other team is throwing around money like it is nothing and the braves are acting like they are broker than they have ever been. very strange.

i thought because of the profitability of the mlb.com stuff and the tv deals, that all of these teams had extra $$$ to play with. in fact, i think i heard from peter gammons this week on mike and mad dog on wfan.com that the owners and baseball execs had been warned by someone like i think manfred not to get too crazy with all of this newfound $$$$ because they would pay the price down the road. alas, to no avail, evidently. so why are the braves the only cheapskates in this crazy, carefree buyer’s market.

i know it ain’t bobby and it is not the fault of th GM. this ownership situation with the braves is a joke.

and great blog/article as usual DOB. you are the absolute best in the business.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 2, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

;)

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 2, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this

braveheart,

This is an untrue statment:

“how come every other team is throwing around money like it is nothing and the braves are acting like they are broker than they have ever been. very strange.”

Twins, Royals, A’s, Reds, Nationals, Marlins, Pirates, Devil Rays, must I go on?

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, although the business as a whole is swimming in cash, the Braves still have an $80 mill payroll, and probably will until the ownership things gets resolved. Doesn’t really matter, unfortunately, what other teams are doing or how much revenue sharing has increased.

By scribe

December 2, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

In the end, glavine is a selfish jerk who didn’t have the guts to do what was right for his family. Just like when he was the head of the Players Association and he chose power over the good of the game

I hope the braves never recognize or retire this jerk’s number

By Kentavo

December 2, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

I think JS is losing it. But then again, he did pull the Renteria deal last year. So, I guess he’ll surprise us with something from out of left field. Yeesh. Can we get new ownership already??

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 2, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this

Scribe, I know you may be disappointed but, how do you or anyone else know whats best for another man’s family?

By Zac

December 2, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

Mike Hampton told Tom Glavine that he, Hampton, informed the Braves that he would restructure his contract to see if they could have the two lefties for something close to the $15M Hampton gets in 2007. No interest, and Glavine never got an offer from Atlanta.

O RLY? This was posted in the gammo blog (diehards should know what that is) I wonder if Glavine intentions were really there….

By Heath

December 2, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

…there has been a lot of talk about glavine lately….to be honest, i am glad it is gonna be over soon now that he has made his decision.

i am STILL waiting on a giles trade. the whole world knows that it is something that the braves would like to do, including giles. how much longer can this trade talk go on? how motivated can giles be if he is uncertain of where he is going to play? not getting glavine is not the end of the world… not trading giles and him performing similarly to last year, while not the end of the world, is far worse.

DOB: is it possible the braves are just not going to get for giles what they need to get, causing them to move in another direction? the length of time that this “almost inevitable” move is taking makes me think they may have to consider another avenue. say…hudson (and maybe an infield prospect) for a LF/lead-off and just one pitching prospect… and then keeping giles to play 2nd and moving him down to say…the 6th spot or him to the 2nd spot and renteria in the 5th/6th spot? as many chances as the braves have taken…that wouldn’t exactly rank as one of the largest risks by leaving our pitching rotation at smoltz…hampton…horam…james… and davies. thoughts?????

By mike

December 2, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

I love sitting on the sidelines and watch Braves owners tie up management ability and dollars to get players. If Time Warner doesn’t want to allow Schuerholtz and company to rebuild a champtionship team that TW has budgeted to death, then please, do us a favor and sell the team to someone who will let them play and pay. Glavine, yet another free agent who still has playing time and will accept less to play in Atlanta…gone. Who is next and how many more will we lose? How much more home grown talent will we give away just to bring worn out legs and arms to our team. Why do we invest in a farm system and then give them away for worn out players. Look how well our young farm products are doing on other teams.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

Heath, the winter meetings haven’t even begun, and you’re worried about how motivated Giles will be because of trade talks? It’s 2-1/2 months until spring training.

By dadgum

December 2, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this

DOB… like you dude but the Braves have pluggers in the middle…I know not great and iffy but if Boyer returns in great shape well add horam or Davies plus Linebrink…back to point….the Braves don’t need back tier starters. They have those. They need front line men. Not sure who but they need them. They better start looking for a #2 guy via trade. Success comes from starting pitching and they better start shoring up the front end as it is taking on water. Willis and like kind starters with youth and not too top heavy salary-wise are great not to mention grooming from within the organization. Overall it could take a couple of years. JS seems to be floundering without the extra payroll in these times. A class in communication may do him good. Right now he is looking like the class clown with everyone suddenly realizing he ain’t that funny anymore.

Oh and by the way Glavine while great next year ain’t what this team needs over the next 5 years. If JS said that Glavine was their main target this winter well that is indeed sad. Maybe time time for him to saddle up the horse and ride off into the sunset. Eh Tonto!!!!

By Zac

December 2, 2006 11:02 PM | Link to this

Let’s go with the roster we have; assuming Boyer can pitch as well as he was before his injury, Macay is one of the best lefty relievers in the league, a proven stopper in Wickman (that is my biggest concern, his health mostly) and a very solid lineup. Lets go as we are; if Hudson pans out, if Gilly hits like he did before he was thrust into the leadoff, (and really, is there a bigger clubhouse guy than giles? I’d go as far as to say he has been the glue in that clubhouse. My favorite player bar none, and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear Bobby say the same thing.) I have no complaints on our team, the little things will be ironed out, I trust Schuerholz. I guess that makes one of us.

By rdrunner

December 2, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this

First time - shame on you.

Second time - shame on me.

Glavine - take I -95 north. while you are at it take your family. We do not need or want you.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

Bruce, you asked earlier about Russ Springer. Yes, I do think he could be an eighth-inning option, because he’s 38 but still effective and relatively cheap, and wasn’t offered arbitration. He’s a Type A free agent, but wouldn’t cost any draft pick because not offered arb, obviously.

Joe Borowski, who had a pretty strong year as Marlins closer, also wasn’t offered arbitration and could make a helluva 8th-inning guy, though obviously would cost more after saving 36 games. Phillies also backed out of a two-year deal with him because his physical supposedly raised concerns.

A few other available free agent relievers besides the ones mentioned earlier today: Jose Mesa, Octavio Dotel, Miguel Batista and Arthur Rhodes. Oh, and some guy named Kolb. Line up, teams.

Dadgum, Marlins say Dontrelle’s not available. It’d take a HUGE deal to change their mind, and he’s making a lot of cash and going up every year (more than $4 mill last year in his first year of arbitration eligibility).

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this

Oh, and if anybody just happened to go to The Earl tonight to see Steve Wynn play, let me know how it went. I wanted to see the show, but my cab’s arriving at 7:45 a.m. and his band wasn’t even supposed to hit the stage until about 11:30.

Later

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 2, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

DOB

Did you check out the My Boys series on TBS this evening?

A little tacky, but I actually laughed out loud a couple of times. Jordana Spiro is kind of a “poor man’s” Cameron Diaz (pronounced DeeAz not Die-az like Matt - sorry had to add that.)

Anyhow, figured if anybody would like a show about a hot chick that covers the Cubs for the Chicago Sun Times, it would be you.

Though, I’m not sure with the Braves games slowly getting taken off of TBS, if I should support anything they put out. Oh Well, funny is funny.

By jc

December 3, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

DOB, here’s guessing JS and Tom are thinking something like this-

If you could read my mind, love, what a tale my thoughts could tell. Just like an old time movie ‘bout a ghost from a wishing well…I don’t know where we went wrong, but the feeling’s gone and I just can’t get it back.

By dfree

December 3, 2006 12:15 AM | Link to this

f*** glavine, i mean he left for more money the first time, he spurned us, the braves nation hated him, then over the past few months we softened to him, hearing “hometown discount” etc, but for it to go down like this? what a b***, i mean he was probably just using us for leverage, using the team that you owe your career to for leverage, wtf? i f*** hate the guy now, i mean i know js may not of acted fast enough, but glavine should of called him to tell him about the deadline, i mean how the hell is js supposed to know the exact deadline if f*** glavine doesnt tell him? f*** glav, he’s an a*, heres hoping we get back to rockin his a* next year!!!

By MEB

December 3, 2006 12:16 AM | Link to this

Zac… Let me say that I totally agree with you and lets play with the cards we have been dealt. Giles is an important catalyst for this team and will be nearly impossible to replace.

I feel Glavine would have been a nice addition but if he truly wanted to be a Brave he could have worked it out. Go on back to New York Tommy and don’t let the door hit ya on the way out.

By Zac

December 3, 2006 12:27 AM | Link to this

If we had to trade Hudson to get Glavine here, would we be better off? I seriously doubt it, especially since a 6 mill Hudson has outperformed a 7 mill Glavine. And from a potential standpoint, who has more at this point in their perspective careers? I think Glavine didn’t get anything publicly for a really good reason, and we haven’t heard anything for another good reason. Our organization is real business.

By jc

December 3, 2006 12:33 AM | Link to this

Then Glavine said

I’m on my way to glory land and I shall not be moved. Glory, glory, hallelujah I shall not be moved.

By Bo

December 3, 2006 12:51 AM | Link to this

Please don’t us that word ( Glavine ) again. Its over…Its done..enough! His wife made the decision, now get over it. PLease????

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 3, 2006 02:33 AM | Link to this

No doubt that Giles will be traded. I wonder if the Angels would be willing to part with Chione Figgins and a reliever for Giles. I also think the Braves should make a strong push to acquire Scott Posednik from the White Sox. He could play LF and possibly fill the leadoff position. I think a deal involving Langerhans or Thorman and a prospect could get it done. It would be nice if Figgins and Posednik could be acquired. That way Prado could be on the bench and get another year of seasoning just at the major league level. The Braves lineup could feature: 1. Figgins (2b); 2. Renteria (SS); 3. C. Jones (3B); 4. A. Jones (CF); 5. McCann (C); 6. LaRoche (1B); 7. Francoeur (RF); 8. Posednik (LF)

Figgins would give insurance for Chipper. If Chipper does get hurt again, Figgins can play 3B and then Prado could fill in at 2B. I would feel better about that than Aybar at 3B. Posednik would bring speed to the lineup and if he can get his stroke back could actually bring a good bat to the bottom of the lineup. Figgins at the top of the lineup would definitely bring a protypical leadoff hitter who can get on base and steal bases. Figgins avg. isn’t the best but he gets on base and scores run and besides that he can so many positions he is Betemit but a lot better.

Signing Ward has to be a must. I just wonder what if anything the Braves will do at the winter meetings. They have some money to spend but because of the outrageous free agent market it isn’t doing them a damn bit of a good.

I personally believe by this time next week that Giles and HoRam will not be Braves and Hudson might join them. Ken Rosenthal said that JS asking price for Hudson was too high. I wonder who was inquiring about Hudson and what the price was. I hope JS isn’t asking for the moon because Hudson hasn’t exactly set the world on fire the last two years and if someone is willing to take that salary off of his hands he needs to jump on it. While Hudson may only make 6 mil this year, he will be making 13 mil the next two seasons and that will cause a huge problem next offseason. Despite what DOB says, I don’t think even if Hudson has a good year next year that it will be that easy to trade him with that salary. I have a feeling that all these guys with these big money signings will sputter next season and that will drive down the market a little. If that does happen, then Hudson’s 13 mil will look very imposing for most GMs. I think a deal with the Red Sox should really be sought. I would love to see Trot Nixon along with a couple of those young pitching prospects in a Braves uniform. Not to mention the Yankees. I know they are reluctant to part with Melkey Cabrerra and they should be but that pitching rotation sucks. Mussina is risky. Johnson is all but on the scrap heap. Pavano is likely to get injured again before spring training ever starts. I’m envisioning a Christmas day present being opened a back muscle being pulled or something. Wang is the only guy they have of any consistency. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn’t trade their 4th outfielder for a potential frontline starter. Some may say that Cabrerra for Hudson isn’t even close to equal value. I say the Braves would be committing robbery with that trade. Cabrerra is a starter on 80% of the other teams in MLB. He would fill the leadoff role and can play some defense. Plus he is young and cheap. Its not like Matsui, Damon, or Abreu are going anywhere. Not to mention that the Yanks will have an excellent shot at signing Andruw next offseason so I think a deal should be sought.

By rainman

December 3, 2006 02:54 AM | Link to this

I have my pick for left field and the leadoff spot. He like Glavine is an old friend, My pick is Ryan Klesko. Stop laughing and go look at his numbers he has kept an above 350 obp almost every year and cut way down on his k’s. He may not be the best option for leadoff but not a bad left fielder batting 7th or 8th.

By Zac

December 3, 2006 02:58 AM | Link to this

ok, justice, im going to be honest, i only read the first half of your post, because its all inane b******. Nothing big is going to happen this offseason, you watch. You want to see hudson traded? sorry! You want to see giles moved? Maybe, but probably not. Remember, I said it first. Take your anger out on your pillow, tards, because our team is stronger than you give it credit, and will win more games as is than last year, I’ll bet my 80k salary next year.

By berigan

December 3, 2006 03:47 AM | Link to this

I wonder if it will be hard to trade Giles, since the whole world knows that the poor, poor Braves can’t afford to pay him 5-6 mil next year. Plus, he didn’t have the greatest of years last year. What would you trade to get someone who hit .261???

By berigan

December 3, 2006 03:50 AM | Link to this

Rainman, Klesko did pretty well in the playoffs(I think he only batted twice, but got a hit each time) but I think SD had him on the roster because they knew he was more than likely retiring after 2006.

By berigan

December 3, 2006 03:59 AM | Link to this

DOB, all this talk of Glavine, Giles, etc is depressing. Do you like Morphine? The Band that is. I like their first album, “Good” and “Like Swimming” best, which according to Allmusic.com I shouldn’t, but I don’t care. Mark Sandman rules, or rather, ruled. A trio without a guitarist, what a brilliant concept!

By berigan

December 3, 2006 04:07 AM | Link to this

Mark Sandman died at 47. wrote these lyrics for their first album…

*Listen young people I’m 74 And I plan to live 60 or 70 more Yeah I’ve been all around I’ve done a few things And I spent a few nights on the floor, oh!

Did everything wrong but I never got caught So of course I would do it all over again I surprised many people who’d written me off Years ago now they’re way underground

Nobody asked me but here’s my advice To a young man or woman who’s living this life In a world gone to hell where nobody’s safe Do not go quietly unto your grave Do not go quietly unto your grave

Learned a few tricks and I’ll learn a few more And I got enough bullets to fight a small war Nobody asked me so here’s my advice To a young man or woman who’s living this life In a world gone to hell where nobody’s safe

Do not go quietly unto your grave Do not go quietly unto your grave Do not go quietly unto your grave Do not go quietly unto your grave*

By ncscoots

December 3, 2006 06:56 AM | Link to this

does it ever occur that the reason the Braves don’t make a lot of noise this time of year is because they don’t NEED to make a lot of noise? The team needs, while obvious, are not glaring. DOB’s article summed up it up pretty well, and I’m pretty much in agreement with the priorities he set forth. Though I’m less concerned about an everyday right-handed bat, I would like to see a right-handed bat with some sock on the bench to complement Ward. And I think a second lefty reliever is actually more important than a setup guy, though I think both are needed.

But all in all, that list of needs is relatively short and certainly doable. So let’s not moan about the lack of action (I’m pretty sure the same bloggers ripping JS for no action would be the first to disparage him for making a just-for-the-pub trade or signing, anyway).

One last thing, for the leadoff-hitter-blinded…I know it’s hot stove season and all, but could you check a player’s OBP before touting him as a potential trade? At least make sure he has a better OBP than Giles had last year, in his CAREER WORST YEAR!! If you can’t come up with someone with an OBP in the .360 range, just keep that one in your pocket for the time being, OK?

By Bruce

December 3, 2006 07:42 AM | Link to this

What is the timing and process of dealing with Players eligible for arbitration: 1B Adam LaRoche; 2B Giles; LHP Ramirez; RHPs Chris Reitsma, Oscar Villarreal

Please explain the process to me… maybe by expanding/correcting my speculation if I am close enough to be helpful: These are guys that still are under contract, but because they have been in the Major Leagues x years (x=5?) players get to request a salary adjustment. An arbitrator looks at what other players in their position are making for salary and suggest a salary adjustment? Or is it: The club makes one offer, the player makes another and the arbitrator chooses or comes up with a figure? Is there a specific range of dates where the process begins & concludes? Does the team have any power in the price and decision? Thanks! Bruce

By John Tucker

December 3, 2006 07:46 AM | Link to this

Why cry about Galvine? moreeimportantly, why wastethe money, when you have a younger replica in Chuck James?

If Atlanta pitched Glaviine and James in the same series, the one who pitched second would get hammered, because they pitch too much alike.

This time, the GM made the right move. Of all years, in 2007, the Braves have neither the money nor the time for sentiment.

Just go trade or give away Marcus Giles and get lots of pbulpen help anf a leadoff man for Andruw, and the Braves will do fine this year.

By Richard Cory

December 3, 2006 08:26 AM | Link to this

ncscoots The flip side is, things are what they are. Two old truism come to mind: a] the proof is in the pudding, and b] if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. In our case I must opt for a. We finished 3rd in a 6 team division—closer to last than 1st. Things may get better on their own, then again they could turn worse. Our chief competition is doing everything they can to improve. To expect us to close the gap by standing still, seems to be unrealistic to me. I realize you do propose improvements and are trying to offer some counter thought to the panic crowd. However, I fear we are falling farther behind. I do believe, this is not JS’s fault. The budget is set. The hands are tied. Now, he is told, make us a silk purse, out of the cow’s ear. Lots of luck.

By ray

December 3, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this

I am assuming JS didn’t call Tom G and flat out tell him what he wanted to do and needed to get done. I think Glavine at LEAST deserved that. I have never really questioned JS in the past but this is getting a bit sad in the lack of actions. Get off the high-horse JS. Is my memory serving correctly this is starting to look like the last couple of years when JS was in KC? I could be wrong but it is reminding me of his last few years in Kansas City. I will wait and see as the winter meetings start tomorrow and see if he can get something done. Iam guessing we are going to hear the same “press play on the recorder” comments about how we are trying blah blah blah.

By NYM

December 3, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this

The Mets will sign a front line pitcher. The top of the rotation will look like this to start the season. 1. Zito/Schmidt? 2. Glavine 3. El Duque. That’s not a bad 1-2-3. Then, Pedro gets back around the All Star break and now check out the rotation. 1. Pedro 2. Zito/Schmidt 3. Glavine 4. El Duque. Lets not forget that lineup that just added a great right handed bat to protect David Wright(Alou) and provide lefty/righty balance. All this equals another trip to the playoffs…..GO METS!!

By doc

December 3, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

it is amazing to me that there was anyone who thought glavine might come back. family matters to him, ha. he has had a divorce and remarried to have more kids to only walk away from the new family for what one mil more a year, worse team at the time; it was and always will be about him as he was going to nyc for the prstige and the power that goes along with his then standing in the union.

why in the world did anyone think he was any different this time around? gee, more money, better team this time with a better chance to hit 300 with the mets and to be the talk of nyc as he approaches 300. only one other guy recently has had that opportunity and he finally went home to houston when it was said and done as they were willing to suck up to his many demands.

dob, face it you got taken on this one and probably used by tommy g. usually, you see through things but that was wistful thinking on your part to even play this story angle of the hero coming home after the acrimony. one more time for glavine to string along js to get mo money and press.

By GM R

December 3, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

Personally I don’t believe a word of what JS says. I think it is all a charade to make Braves fans think this team is active in the market when the owners have no intention of spending money. We saw the same with Sheffield, where JS said enough to make everyone think he was actively involved in trying to keep him, same again with Drew, same again with Furcal - feed the media titbits to make it look like you are negotiating - we all find out from the players involved afterwards that they either heard nothing or the offers were derisory. I think that’s why Smoltz got ticked off last year when there was all that talk about getting a closer - the only reason they got one, too late as it happended, was because he threatened to blow the lid off. Glavine knows the score with JS too - that s why he made his decision. So tell JS to cut the lame act, whining about players making unexpected moves - we aren’t all completely stupid.

By GM R

December 3, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

Personally I don’t believe a word of what JS says. I think it is all a charade to make Braves fans think this team is active in the market when the owners have no intention of spending money. We saw the same with Sheffield, where JS said enough to make everyone think he was actively involved in trying to keep him, same again with Drew, same again with Furcal - feed the media titbits to make it look like you are negotiating - we all find out from the players involved afterwards that they either heard nothing or the offers were derisory. I think that’s why Smoltz got ticked off last year when there was all that talk about getting a closer - the only reason they got one, too late as it happended, was because he threatened to blow the lid off. Glavine knows the score with JS too - that s why he made his decision. So tell JS to cut the lame act, whining about players making unexpected moves - we aren’t all completely stupid.

By Chris

December 3, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

It was a lame ending for Tom’s return to the Braves. But was it? I like Glavine, but feel he is all about the coin. He and his agent knew the $ was not there in ATL. He played the Braves before and I feel he did, or tried, it again. Schuerholz did not extend an offer for a reason. Good read John - know go get us what we need - a leadoff hitter and relief help!

By since 57

December 3, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

Poor little Tommy Glavine. He proved turncoat for the second time. Good bye and good riddance. Enjoy the money Tommy, you have no class.

By mcdawg

December 3, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

Glavine was not a turncoat-he got played by the Braves the first time and perhaps this was his way of getting back at scherholz-i for one will be rooting him along on his quest for 300-and the way the braves fans treated him after he left (and his family) why would he want to come back-look blame the money situation on the lame NY owners of the braves-AOL/Time Warner SUX

By Ricardo

December 3, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

There is an article in today’s paper by Furman Bisher that I found intersting, though upon reflection, I decided I don’t agree with the main point. The primary point of the article was that the Braves don’t really need Glavine since they already have a younger and cheaper version of him in Chuck James.
After thinking about it, I disagree. It would have been an outstanding situation for CJ to be able to talk about pitching, experience, etc. with a guy like Glavine and would be invaluable to his growth as a pitcher. I know that Hampton can “fill in” in that regard, but it’s just not the same. Thoughts?

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 3, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

Rainman

As silly as it may sound, I was thinking the same thing about Klesko. He probably could be had fairly cheap. Getting out of Petco could possibly bring some “pop” back to his bat. Not to mention he looks considerably “slimmer” than in years past. Granted he’s not a spring chicken anymore, but he DID steal 20 bases (with a high success rate) in his first two seasons in SD, not to mention, he’s hit lefties (average wise) fairly well since leaving ATL.

Could be a one year “stop gap” kinda guy. Add to the fact that if LaRoche got hurt, he’d be a better option at first base on a daily basis than Ward (if he’s resigned)

By Lew

December 3, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

NYM-The Mets will be lucky to get either Zito or Scmidt, seeing that they both want to stay on the west coast. Not only that, but there are plenty of other teams with Mets money looking for frontline pitching. It would not surprise me if the Mets ended up with neither. That leaves you with Glavine and ElDuque-both over 40 years old, neither of whom could be described as an ace. Good luck if you think Pedro will return in June as an ace. Dude, that is total optimism of cult proportions. The Mets will be lucky if he is EVER back to what you consider normal. He has shoulder, leg and toe issues. Toes are not to be trifled with. The Mets rotation makes the Braves rotation look like stability personified. Berigan-A trio without a guitarist, a brilliant concept? Maybe so , but what about Emerson, Lake and Palmer or Triumvirat? Can you say almost 40 years ago? Scoots-Thanks for the rational outlook, Dude. We are not in the desperate straights that some place us in. One decent set up and a lefty reliever, along with the signing of Ward and I like our chances better than those of the Mets or Phillies. The Marlins will be a non-issue. Check out SI.Com and read Tom Verducci’s article about overusing young pitchers and you’ll see why I’m not worried about the Marlins. Team wide sophomore slump will set in and they overused at least two of their young pitchers. So did the Phillies with Hamels. The Braves will be back atop our division this year. There is just no way in hell we will ever have that many injuries again. Ever.

By thathouguy

December 3, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

Can someone explain to me how it is that the Braves can not offer arbitration to their free agents and not have any money to spend?

If I’m reading the salaries of all the players no longer with the team correctly, the Braves should have close to $8 million less than their ending payroll. Surely the could make 1-2 moves with that amount of money?

I hope we are not seeing a repeat of last year when the Braves refused to overpay for a player or two and found themselves way behind in the race because they didn’t.

By Tom

December 3, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

DOB: I really don’t see (or want) the Braves signing a Joe Borowski. Again, like I said about Dave Roberts, it’s not a “Braves-like signing.” I KNOW the Braves inquired about Dave Roberts but you can bet your bottom dollar it wasn’t for 3 years and it wasn’t for $5 mil. Try to get Roberts for dirt cheap and short term? Yea. Anything more? No way. He’s always injured and he’s not getting any younger.

Borowski? Again, not someone the Braves would sign. He is a soft-tosser and will command too much money in this market. He had a short run with the Cubs and then got lit up like a Christmas tree. Nobody wanted him and the Marlins gave him the closer job and he had a good 1 year run. He has arm problems (shoulder) so I just don’t see why we’d want him.

Of all of that FA slop that is out there, MAYBE a $1 million or so 1 year deal for Mesa in middle relief (not setup) would be feasible. But again, the Braves don’t sign guys like this unless it’s for dirt cheap. (and a 1 year contract)

By Jeff

December 3, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

DOB Would the Braves have any interest in a young centerfielder in the Pirates system, Chris Duffy? Have you heard anything about the Pirates interest in moving him?

As regards payroll, the Mets are now the Yankees of the National League—almost. They’re willing to spend a lot of money to acquire the talent they need to win pennants. DOB had mentioned that after the sale to Liberty Media, the Braves’ purse strings may be loosened some. Let’s hope so. In the meantime, they need to continue to develop talent from within and, where possible, free up dollars wthin their existing payroll. That means moving guys like A. Jones and Hudson if the right deals can be made. It means good bye to C. Jones and Hampton in a couple of seasons. it means younger talent and a longer term view.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

Thathouguy- Just what Braves’ free agents would you like to offer arbitration? John Thomson? Brian Jordan? Todd Pratt? The reason they were not offered arbitration is two fold 1.They would make more in arbitration than they were worth 2.They would not bring draft picks if signed by another team because they are Class C free agents. Besides, we could offer them a minor league contract if we so desire, which we don’t. If you are talking Glavine, Maddux, Sheffield, etc, that is old news and doesn’t require any comment. As far as having all the extra money you mention, Giles is due a $2-3 million raise. Horacio another mil. LaRoche due a $2 mil or more raise in arbitration. Dude, $8mil hust doesn’t have the buying power it used to. I’m sure there’s a bit of money left, but how about resigning Ward? That will be a couple mil more than we had to pay him last year and JS needs a little money for wiggle room as other issues may surface. Also, given how salaries have wildly escalated this offseason, just who do you think that would effectively fill a hole for $2 million? Do you really think we will get a stud starter or a top reliever for that kind of money? Dream on. GM R-Just when did you hear JS tell you that Glavine was our top priority this offseason? Did you ever even hear him comment at all? This whole situation was orchestrated by Glavine, seemingly to bust our chops. I just don’t see how you can blame JS.

By JC FROM UT

December 3, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Jacque Jones would be a good move. Maybe the Cubs would deal him straight up for Giles. Or if he goes to Colorado, we send Lance Cormier and HoRam. As far af a right hand bat to fill in for Laroach/Chipper how about Joe Randa or Aaron Boone

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 3, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Nothing new to talk about I see. NOt surprising since it’s the calm before the storm. How bout the football yesterday. BCS all screwed up now. Mabey the Falcons can pull one out today.

By Richard Cory

December 3, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Lew While I appreciate your optimism, I must respectfully challenge it. You say, “the Braves will be back on top of our division next year”. I suggest a friendly wager—just for braggin rights. I say “no way”. Hopefully, we will both be around this time next year and the ‘winner’ can say, I told you so. I would expect that most of the folks here would be pulling for you. Guess what—so would I. I just can’t see it happening. If anyone else wants in on this action—please speak now, or forever hold your peace. It’s easy to say after the fact—“I knew it all along”. I have considerable respect for someone like Lew, who will step out on an issue he believes in. Anyone else???

By kj

December 3, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

i suggest we all go by the neweset games for playstation and xbox so we can make all the trades we want to and build up the braves with a huge payroll wooohooooo…. i agree 100% with DOB and glasshalffull i like jacque jones in a deal if he goes to rockies…. i also like tim hudson, he still has lots of raw talent, and we also still have a very formidable lineup , with jones boys, renteria, laroche, franceour, just missing the speed element, i do worry a little about wickman he had a great year, but if he goes down with an injury or has any kind of lapse who do we have to fill in his spot, don’t get me wrong he had a great year last year i like the braves , i wish they would get sold so we can do some top notch stuff, but i cant complain , i have been a braves fan since 75’ all the bad years followed by all the great years,, go braves atl fan forever

By Bravo Nam

December 3, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

Checking in from the Nam for one last time- the only remaining thing I want to say about the whole Glavine affair is that I didn’t see it coming- no, not talking about the money, staying with NY, miscommunications, family issues- I’m talking about his fondness of the Mets and New York- ultimately, it seems that this decision was based on a preference for playing with the Mets (certainly there’s no doubt he prefers their management), not the Braves- for me, that’s the most shocking thing of this whole sordid affair.

DOB

In a handful of words, at the top of this blog, you really captured the end result in a nutshell- “abrupt” and “empty”.

Fellow Bloggers

Tomorrow morning (12.25am in the Nam) I’m leaving for Australia after almost seven years in Vietnam- will resurface in Phnom Penh in a month or two under the same tag- catch you all then.

By NYM

December 3, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

LEW, turn the clock back one year and the same nonesense was being said by Brave fans about the Mets rotation. I heard it all. They’re old, not good, the word Trachsel made all of you giggle. Anyway, here we are again and it seems you haven’t learned from you prior mistakes. Brave fans will again underestimate the Mets pitching and be surprised.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

NYM-What prior mistakes are those? The ones where I support my team to the exclusion of yours? Get real Dude. Last year the Mets’ rotation did it with smoke and mirrors. Trachsel was a complete flippin’ joke. Now he’s gone. Pedro is gone-you may not realize it yet, or accept it, but gone maybe for good. He certainly won’t be back to full strength anywhere near as quickly as you hope. I doubt he will even be a factor in 07. There are teams out there (Angels, Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Rangers), who have just as much money to spend as the Mets. Both Zito and Schmidt have gone on record as saying they would prefer to stay on the West Coast. The availability of the top pitchers is certainly not the exclusivity of the Mets. You may not sign ANY of them. In order to get Dontrelle, you will have to give up much more than you can afford talent-wise. You really think that picking up Moises Alou is going to insure your continuation at the top of the NL East? Good luck. You also had several players putting up career numbers. You better hope they do it again. As far as the Braves-Most of our problems last year were a result of massive injuries-way more than is likely to ever again be seen by our team. As it stands now, if we were to start tomorrow, I’d take our pitching staff over yours in a heartbeat. As far as offense goes, we had the second most productive offense in the league. We even have enough middle infielders in our pipeling to let us consider trading Giles. We have already dealt with our number one deficiency from last year by signing Wickman. Do you truly believe that wqith Wicky all of last year, that the Mets would have run away with the division? Totally improbable, no matter what spin you put on it. Dude, the Mets have hardly assembled a dynasty. You couldn’t even get to the series. Don’t start the chest thumping quite yet, NYM. It’s a new day in MLB. Remember telling us we couldn’t rest on our laurels? Take your own advice.

By Shaun

December 3, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

Richard Cory and Lew,

I don’t know if the Braves will be back on top but they certainly have what it takes to challenge for the division title—a lineup that scored the 2nd most runs in the NL last season and shouldn’t decline significantly, a pitching staff that is almost sure to improve. One writer said the 2007 Braves have what it takes to be next year’s version of this year’s Twins.

By Carolina Lady

December 3, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

kj, I have the same concern with Wickman. He’s the only ‘egg’ in the basket and if anything happens to him I surely don’t know who they’ll turn to for a replacement, short-term or otherwise. Who is his backup?

Bravo Nam, look forward to your return. You’ll certainly be missed! God speed!

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

I think my post got eaten halfway through by this hotel DSL line that knocked me off….

Anyway, I was saying … Nam, guess you got through that wicked storm OK? Sounded pretty serious, the typhoon or hurrican or whatever it was that hit Vietnam….

berigan, I loved Morphine (the band, and the drip that got me through the first three days of my one-week hospital stay for a broken ankle). “Like Swimming” is good, but “Cure For Pain” and “B Sides and …” are much better, especially Cure For Pain. Greatness.

FOLKS, it’s 83 freakin’ degrees here in Orlando. Ridiculous. Humid, too. Near record highs…. Getting ready to go over to the meetings hotel, but don’t expect anything to happen today. They’re just informal sessions today as teams check in, etc.

Klesko, huh? You guys have active imaginations, I’ll give you that….

By the way, which blogger said Hudson outperformed Glavine? When are you talking about, a couple years ago? Because he certainly hasn’t since the middle of the ‘05 season, when Glavine starting pitching inside more and throwing breaking balls, instead of just change-ups and fastballs away, away, away….

But hey, it’s over. No sense belaboring. Anybody who believes the Braves weren’t really targeting him, though, well, don’t know what to tell you other than you’re flat wrong. Since I don’t know any way to prove it, I’ll not argue the point further.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Richard Cory-I never said the Braves would run away with the division. I’m sure it will be a 3 way dogfight to the end. However, do you really think the injury bug will nail the Braves to that extent, yet again? Our offense will return almost intact (at least for 07). Our pitching staff is already improved. We have Wicky. We have Yates, Villarreal and Cormier a year further removed from surgery. Hampton can’t possibly be as bad as Sosa was last year. This all spells improvement. At the beginning of the season last year, McBride was injured. Boyer is returning. But the Mets are not stonger than last year. They may (and I’m sure they will) make improvements before the season starts. Right now their pitching has many more question marks than the Braves. The Phillies don’t have great pitching, either and may not be able to acquire it. Even if they do, they still have to pitch in Philly, where I could probably hit one out. The Marlins are going into a team wide sophomore slump. I keep telling people to log on to SI.Com and read Tom Verducci’s very imformative article about the overuse of young pitchers. It applies to at least two Marlins’ pitchers AND Cole Hamels of the Phillies. Go read it (Shaun, it even has stats and charts-you will love it). Yes, I have p[lenty of optimism for the Braves in the upcoming season, but I assure you, it is not just due to sentimentality. I actually research before I run my mouth. Except when I give Stinky grief-that is instictual.

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 3, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Well said Lew.

I’m not going on the record and GUARANTEEING anything. Who the HELL knows what’s going to happen. For all we know, the Marlins will overtake EVERYBODY. That’s THE team I’d worry about if I was on the Braves or Mets. Young, hungry, talented, POWER PITCHERS. Their the Detroit Tigers. About the ONLY thing keeping the Marlins from running away with the East, is a couple of veterans on the roster to “guide” them, ala: TP, Bream, Leibrandt in 1991.

Mark it down. The Marlins will finish in the top two of the division. The only real question is which Braves ans Mets team will “show up” and finish in the top two with them. Washington….Non factor. Philedelphia? Like always, they’ll find some way to collapse.

Face facts NYM, I know you might be afraid to admit it, but you’re not quite certain if the Mets are gonna win 100 games, or be 2 or 3 BIG injuries away from having the season the Braves just had.

What is 3/5 of YOUR rotation spends the majority of the season on the DL? What if Carlos Delgado can only play in about 110 games? What if Billy Wagner gets hurt and can’t close? What if your leadoff hitter hits 30 points below his career average for the first 3 months of the season? What if Glavine trips on his brief case full of CASH he just got from the Mets, lands on his pitching arm and is out for the year. Then what?

All things being equal. I still say “on paper” the Mets have the better team. But that’s because we’ve got a LOT more youth in the everyday lineup than the Mets. Let’s see what LaRoche, McCann and Francoeur do with FULL seasons of being the everyday starters under their belts do. If they continue to improve, I believe it will be a dead heat to the finish.

Not tryin to be an A$$, just keepin it real. NOBODY knows what’s gonna happen.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, that’s why they’d like to get a strong setup man who could fill in or move to closer if needed. Linebrink, for instance.

Boyer MIGHT be able to do it, but probably too much of a question mark still after missing entire season and having so little experience, at least too much a question mark to feel real comfortable with him in the role. Of course, if you have to do it….

By Lew

December 3, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Ma’am-Good morning. How many teams do you know that have two top line closers? We’ll do what everyone else does if their closer goes down. We’ll pitch whoever we can get. If Boyer comes back healthy, we could use him. Or Devine may be ready. We’ll cross that bridge if we have to. What would the Mets do if Wagner goes down? The Yankees if they lost Rivera? Besides-there’s always Reitsma.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

And there’s always Reitsma

(hey, alright, stop throwing things at me)

By mariner

December 3, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Probably already mentioned, but Russ Springer wasn’t offered arbitration. Seems like a bad move by the Astros and an opportunity for the Braves. Acquire an 8th inning pitcher, or bullpen depth at the least, for not too much money (he’s 38 and made 750,000 last season), and keep the tradeable players for other deals.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

DOB-Apparently great minds think alike. Just so Stinky doesn’t get the idea we’re the same person, he needs to remember you like Country music-I like hard rock and Metal (let’s hear it for Night Ranger). This whole discussion also points to why JS shouldn’t spend every available penny in the offseason. We may need a tweaking later in the year and it would be nice to have a couple of bucks available. Just read a Chop Talk article that has Matt Harrison possibly being ready for the rotation later in the year, too. I think that kid will be a stud. Look at his KtoBB ratio. It’s like 5 to one. He is also describes as having impressive command and exposure. The Braves are far from being out of things like the doom and gloom people seem to think.

By rainman

December 3, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Ok sorry about the klesko thing I was kidding to the most part. One trade that would make sense for the braves and the d-rays is horam for jonny gomes. If we cant get a good leadoff hitter then we should load up on power and bash our way through teams. For those who dont know gomes he is a intense power hitter that gives every thing he has game in and game out.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

That was composure-not exposure. Sorry.

By Carolina Lady

December 3, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

O’Brien, go wash out your mouth!! :-))))

I’m uneasy every time I watch Wickman come out onto the extremely hot field to pitch. Not from his pitching, but in fear of his health! Please prove me wrong, Wicky!!

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Lew, I like country, hard rock and some metal … and a lot of R&B, blues, punk-funk (Rick James’ trademark brand name). But I absolutely can’t stand Night Ranger, if they are actually a band and not some horrid studio creation (just had to tweak you there).

By rivers

December 3, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

DOB, what is the probability that will startup gets a long look in spring training. Would js and cox feel comfortable handing him the ball late in the game?

Also, what about the possibility of jake westbrook joining the staff?

Thanks and keep up the good work.

By Carolina Lady

December 3, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

Lew, I know that others use the best they can muster, but we had nobody even remotely able to close pre-Wickman last year - and I’d sure rather not repeat that! I guess my question would be who, if anyone, is being groomed for that role should we not be able to land a real, live set-up guy? And you go join DOB at the sink, Lew. With soap! :-))

By DCarp23

December 3, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

DOB-With all of the focus on a Giles for Linebrink trade, do you think that is a move that the Braves would seriously consider without other pieces included? Or does a trade like that assume that San Diego will offer a prospect or two as well? While the Braves need to shore up the bullpen, it doesn’t seem to me to make sense that Atlanta would send a relatively young former all-star playing at one of the most valuable positions on the field for an older pitcher who plays an inning a game every other game.

By Carolina Lady

December 3, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

BTW, has anybody heard from Grinch in the last couple of days?? Does he need bail money?

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 3, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

The “Bargain Braves” will either be celler-dwellers this season or at best 1 above the celler, that’s it!…rename the team to “Atlanta Royals”!…

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 3, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

First falcons game I’ve been able to watch all year…vick does not look bad. I think he needs help. See that pass to crumpler?

By John Hoar

December 3, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

Bravo Nam-we’ll miss you. Always good thoughtful comments. There are a lot of others like you, thank goodness, and just a few jerks. One question-why not from Down Under?

By Shaun

December 3, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss,

You mean the team that scored the 2nd most runs in the league and will probably return most of their key players?

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 3, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Yea, that team!…

By Stinky

December 3, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

Night Ranger? Lew likes hair bands? It must be instictual.

By Glass Half Full

December 3, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

What, no love for “Sister Christian”?

By Lew

December 3, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

Stinky-Yeah-As instinctual as thinking you’re a Whiny Little Jerk. Yes, I like a lot of the hair bands. Nothing wrong with the music even if they needed less hair spray. Ma’am-I talked to Grinch last night. He has friends visiting from South Georgia and they were out baiting Florida fans in town for the SEC championship game. Let’s hear cheers for whoever plays Florida in the bowls. DOB-I know you like more than country, Dude. I also know you don’t get into Night Ranger, which is why I mentioned them as a difference between us. That’s ok. I’m not a Hank, Sr. type of guy, either, though I would never try to tell you that Jack Blades was more of a force than Hank. I’m not insane, after all (I don’t think). Night Ranger was an actual band and not a studio creation. I saw them in concert 4 times. Night Ranger/Joe Lynn Turtner was the first show I took my son to when he was 6.

By Stinky

December 3, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

Glass Half Full, can you say ‘one hit wonder’?

By The Grinch

December 3, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

Mornin’ all! Had out of town company the last couple of days. Thank you, CL and Richard Cory for being the only two to even notice I was gone. To hell with the rest of you. :-) And, for the entire blog (and y’all knew this was coming):

I TOLD YOU SO!!

How do all of you whiners who told me I was an idiot and said things like “Tommy will take a hometown discount so he can win #300 as a Brave,” and “How dare you suggest he wouldn’t do what’s best for his family this time, even though he gave them the cold ringfinger last time, etc., etc.” feel now? Huh? Still gonna cheer him when he pitches here? Gonna think about this crap he pulled leading us on for two weeks every time you see Marcus Giles grounding out in the leadoff spot when it could’ve been Dave Roberts if he’d just been straight from the get-go? I rest my case. Bravo nam, good luck in your endeavors, and say hi to a wallaby for me.

Billy: I’ve been saying all year it isn’t Vick’s fault; now you see what I mean.

By sautry

December 3, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Everything printed about Tom Glavine and the Braves/Mets decision tells me he was disappointed Schuerholtz and the Braves didn’t make an offer. Why, if you’re serious about bringing back TG don’t you atleast call to stall? He obviously wanted to come home and probably would’ve taken less to do so. I’ve been a loyal long Braves fan and have supported this team regardless. What’s up with this attitude? Is anyone else seeing this as ARROGANCE in regards to haow the Braves have responded? Atlanta Braves….not New York Yankees. I don’t think this organization is as commited to winning as it once was. I know it’s a business but it really seems to be all about the “budget”. How about loyalty and winning and being first class. I want to see my home team win another World Series but I don’t think I’ll see it again. We’ve won all those division titles but ANYTHING short of a world title cannot be allowed.Ownership (who ever that is?)should open up the wallet and give management the one tool they need in todays professional sports world. Dollars!

By Lew

December 3, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Glass-Sister Christian was just the song the record co. put out for public consumption. It was hardly representative of their music. Does anyone else find it curious that Stinky and The Jacka$$ just showed up at the same time? Enquiring minds don’t need to know. We already figured it out. Ma’am-I would imagine that there are few teams out there that have anyone to step in for a top line closer. Look at the Dodgers and Gagne. At today’s prices and with the demand for even mediocre pitching, there are not many who could afford an insurance policy. Let’s not forgewt the ego factor, either. That’s probably why Baez is not a setup guy for the Braves. I like David’s idea of Linebrink, but that’sa probably as close as you could come to two good closers. Will Startup, a former UGA pitcher is also in the wings for possible bullpen work this year, Further down the road, we also have Kevin Gunderson, who was the closer for the Oregon CWS winners. I repeat, doom and gloom and rebuilding is not upon us.

By Glass Half Full

December 3, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Speaking of one hit wonders…”Come on Eileen” by Dexy’s Midnight Runners. A classic!

By Lew

December 3, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Stinky-Don’t you just love those one hit wonders who put out eight albums, spanning over 15 years? And they didn’t even have to carry on conversations with themselves (individually) for hours on end like you do.

By Glass Half Full

December 3, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Anyone else having video problems with the Falcons game? Right now, the picture is completely frozen. Stupid Fox network!

By Shaun

December 3, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss,

Also, I don’t think the Braves have the lowest payroll in baseball. And besides, the Twins and A’s were two of the better teams in the AL with payrolls among the lowest in the game.

By Sherry L.

December 3, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

I am one of Glavine’s biggest fans and have been since he started. I was disaapointed when he went to the Mets, but he did what he had to do. Which is the same thing he did this time. The Mets showed him more respect and appreciation. The BRaves would not even give him and off the record deal, or an idea at what they wanted to pay him for him to even consider Atlanta. I really wanted him to come back for his 300th and to retire as a Brave, but JS didn’t make that possible. I will continue to cheer him on and only go those Games in Atlanta when he is pitching!! Atlanta needs to get their act together or no one will be there next year to watch them!! GO GLAVINE!!

By Lew

December 3, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

Glass-That album with Come On Eileen was another case of the record co. putting the most commercial song out. That album actually had some really good R&B on it. I don’t know if they ever did a second album, but I really enjoyed that one. Sautry- I think most fans took Glavine at his word that he would pitch for EITHER the Braves or Mets. He knew there would be no bidding war. He knew the Braves could not match the Mets offer. It was my impression that he would tell his agent Clifton where he wanted to pitch and to make it happen. If he needed a concrete offer from the Braves to make his decision, then it was the money all the time and not where he wanted to play. I don’t view the Braves’ actions as arrogance. I view Glavine’s actions as chop busting and nothing more. As much as I would have enjoyed seeing him finish his career as a Brave, we’re probably better off without him. I’m certainly not a conspiracy theorist, but what would have happened to the Mets’ chances if we had moved Hudson to free up money and then had Glavine pull this crap. Would that have helped the Mets or what?

By Stinky

December 3, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Lew, Tell me, what was the “Secret of (Night Ranger’s) Success”?

By futurebravesgm2413

December 3, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

At the end of the season Cox confirmed these 3 names would be a part of the bullpen: 1. Wickman 2. McBride 3. Yates the following are most likely the way I see it. 4. Villerreal 5. Boyer (if he is healthy he will have a spot) 6. ? 7. ? We have plenty of options alrady on our team. Paronto, Stockmam, and Cormier seem to be options. And what about this Bueno guy? I don’t think we have a good option as a 2nd lefty. Startup just isn’t ready. We need either a 2nd lefty or a RH who can dominate LH hitting. With Delgado, Howard, and the rest of the power hitting lefties in our division we need that kind of guy to team w/ McBride.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

Stinky-The hot double guitar work of Jeff Watson and Brad Gillis, the sonwriting of Jack Blades, as well as the fact that the albums before and after Secret were much better. Sherry-You’re a good fan to have, but I don’t think you’ve examined the dynamics of this non-deal in enough depth. The Braves were led on-pure and simple.

By MEB

December 3, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

Grinch… did you see that run by Norwood. WOW!!!

Bravo Nam… enjoy the time in Australia and no swimming with the sting rays.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

FutureGM-The Braves magazine, Chop Talk, has Startup listed as “Former Georgia lefty climbed from Class A to Triple A in ‘06, could be an option for the Atlanta bullpen this spring.” I haven’t even heard anyone mention Stockman at all. His hamstring injury was weird-right above the knee as opposed to the back of the thigh. This may have affected his rehab and he may not be ready.

By Stinky

December 3, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Lew, are you sure that the secret wasn’t Michael J. Fox? Didn’t they do a song for one of his movies? Can’t quite recall it, but I bet you know it.

Ladies and Gentleman, I give you the Celtic Soul Brothers!!!Because Jackie Wilson said.

By Shaun

December 3, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

sautry,

I think the Braves knew what it would take to sign Glavine and were trying to make a trade to clear up money (as O’Brien points out). When they couldn’t make a trade to their liking, they couldn’t sign Glavine.

And it would have been nice to see Glavine in a Braves uniform, but he’s a risk. It’s not worth overpaying (if you’re the Braves especially) for a 40+-year-old pitcher.

Opening the wallet and making emotional decision about players will get any team in trouble.

And besides, you want to talk loyalty? How about signing with the Mets when you had a chance to re-sign with the only team you’ve every known?

I’m not blaming Glavine, but it’s not about loyalty for either side.

And if you want to get nostalgic about loyalty—it has never been about loyalty. Players stayed on their original teams in the old days because of the reserve clause—they were forced to stay with one team until traded or released. And owners and GMs could just release or trade a player once they got too expensive (which was rare because players had to take whatever salary they could get if they wanted to avoid getting released or traded or blacklisted or something like that), and they often did.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Dcarp, don’t know if others would be involved in a Giles/Linebrink trade, but Linebrink (30) is still relatively young for an accomplished reliever, and keep in mind that good setup men are getting $4-6 mill per season in multi-year contracts this winter. Even Danys Baez got more than $6 mill per year, and he’s NOT penciled in as even the No. 2 closer option for the Orioles.

By Shaun

December 3, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

Sherry L.,

Teams cannot go on emotion with players—that’s when they get in trouble. Glavine would have been a risky sign. Schuerholz still tried to make trades to clear up money for him, but couldn’t make a good trade.

Schuerholz’s number one job is to try to win—not to cater to nostalgia.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

Lew, regarding this comment: “Night Ranger/Joe Lynn Turtner was the first show I took my son to when he was 6.”

I have to ask: Does the kid still talk to you?

(kidding, man, kidding. but you know that).

Lew, you a Dylan fan? Just wondering if you’ve got the latest CD, which still amazes me when I put it on and hear him sing the line about Alicia Keys. So random, yet so cool.

By The Grinch

December 3, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

MEB, Norwood’s underrated. After winning this one, they’re still in the playoff hunt with 4 games left, all against NFC opponents. The two hardest games left are at home. They control their own destiny.

Matthew and Hillbilly, sorry about last night’s loss; you guys tried hard. I was at the Ga aquarium yesterday and I swear there must have been 3500 Gator fans there (it really was about 70% of the whole crowd on a Saturday). I did my best WPS as loud as I could, and even went back to the car and got my Dawgs fleece pullover and watchcap. Came back and did some woofing; surprisingly they were fairly classy folks (they’re never that way in Florida). One group even wanted to take a picture with me. Speaking of Dawgs, I watched Will Startup pitch; he ain’t bad. Hope he makes it.

Sherry, I didn’t know Tommy had a sister. Good for you.

By Stinky

December 3, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

Sherry, Lew is a whiny little jerk himself, but he’s right when he says your defense of Tome Glavine is based on some sentimental, adolescent fantasy.

By J-MAN

December 3, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

D.O.B. is there any chance that the Braves would try to trade for Posednik of the White Sox or go after Felipe Lopez or Ryan Freel of the Reds. I know that the Reds are interested in Giles and Possibly Hudson.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

There’s a good story by Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times today on W. Sox GM Kenny Williams’ assessment of the explosive free-agent market. He’s as surprised and reluctant to enter the fray as Schuerholz has told me the Braves are, even though the Sox have a lot more money to spend.

Also, an interesting anecdote about Schuerholz at bottom of this excerpt.

Anyway, here’s part of the story (just skip over it if you’re not interested, but I think it’s revealing of the overall marketplace):

But Williams couldn’t have anticipated that the entire free-agent market would be so overpriced.

”I won’t lie to you and say I didn’t think there would be more options available to us,” Williams said. ”We’re getting support publicly from our fan base in attendance and all the other peripheral things that signal a healthy franchise.

”In my mind, what came next was to open the board up a little bit, open our options up. … And trust me when I say I have not heard once from [board chairman] Jerry Reinsdorf, ‘Don’t go down this road because it will cost too much.’ Fact is, I haven’t even asked him because the players and the money it takes to get guys is just not good business for the White Sox.

”So while I anticipated this ‘new world’ opening up for us, it really hasn’t. We’re still in the same mode of finding undervalued free agents, international players, creative deals.”

Williams wanted to upgrade his outfield this winter — specifically left field. Doing that through free agency, however, quickly ended when he saw the asking prices. Gary Matthews Jr., who was basically coming off a career year at the age of 32, got a five-year, $50 million deal from the Angels, and speedy Juan Pierre got a five-year, $44 million deal from the Los Angeles Dodgers.

That played a big factor in the club opting to re-sign Scott Podsednik to a one-year, $2.9 million deal Friday, avoiding arbitration.

”I don’t anticipate anything on the free-agent market falling back to us because it’s just beyond ridiculous,” Williams said. ”It’s less about money than it is the talent matching up with the amount of dollars.

”People like to think that there was some secret agreement made a few years ago and that’s why the market seemed to stabilize, but it never really did. This offseason will lead to an eventual market correction. It may not be next year or the year after, but a lot of people will get burned by this. And it won’t be an agreement or anything like that. It will be because people are broke.”

As far as improving through trade, Williams might have only himself to blame for that. In acquiring Thornton from the Seattle Mariners, Jose Contreras from the New York Yankees, Freddy Garcia from the Mariners and Jim Thome from the Philadelphia Phillies, Williams’ trade success might have scared off potential teams from doing a deal.

He laughed at that idea, but he did admit he allowed the reputation of another GM to sway him out of making a deal a few years ago.

”The two guys that I talk to the most are [Phillies GM] Pat Gillick and [Atlanta Braves GM] John Schuerholz because I’m trying to learn this job and I have utmost respect for them,” Williams said. ”I’ve missed out on a deal with Schuerholz for [then-Braves pitcher] Kevin Millwood because I got caught up in looking at John for so long and studying him. I was like, ‘When people leave the Braves, they don’t do so good.’

”I don’t know if that’s going on here. I do know we’ve had a few cases where we’ve asked for some young pitching that we heard was available, and all of a sudden they’re not available to us.”

By Richard Cory

December 3, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

SouthernJackAss I must give you your due. You stepped up and made your prediction clear. No riding the fence. I have you down for a ‘no’, on Braves winning the division next year. Anyone else?? Nathan I will ‘guarantee’ the Braves not winning the division next year. You say, “no one can guarantee”, then you say mark it down that the Marlins will finish in the top two. This would mean you are ‘guaranteeing’ the Braves or Mets would finish third. Which one is it?? Don’t worry, none of these ‘guarantees’ are of the money back variety. Let’s have some fun. Prognosticate. It costs nothing. So far, only SJA & myself are on record. Anyone else??

By JC FROM UT

December 3, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

J-MAN: Felipe Lopez is in Washington. I agree with you about Freel. He would be great as a lead off hitter and can play just about anywhere. As far as Hudson goes, Isay he should still be traded just to get rid of the salary plus I really don’t think his body can handle the humidity and heat of the south.

By Matthew

December 3, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

Grinch:

Thanks for the props. My Hogs lost, but have had a whale of a year. Looks like either the Capitol One Bowl against Wisconsin or the Cotton Bowl against Nebraska.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

Sox just signed Podsednik to an affordable deal because they weren’t going to pay the ridiculous prices for available free agent OFs, so I don’t see them now trading him.

Freel interests the Braves, I believe, and it’s something to keep an eye on. Haven’t heard of their interest in Hudson, but he’s a groundball guy (at least when he’s on) and that’s what they need in that bandbox.

On the other hand, there’s no doubt in my mind Hudson would demand a trade after first year there, which he has the right to do because of the old rule about being traded during a multi-year contract (rule no longer exists, but those who already were signed to multi-year deals were grandfathered in).

It’s something that any less-than-attractive team would have to consider before trading for Hudson.

By Jared

December 3, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

Come on, the Rangers want Horacio Ramirez. Why not Ramirez for Akinori Otsuka? It would be a good trade for both sides and he’d be a great set-up man (he was for the Padres) and possible closer if Wickman gets hurt or something. Do it.

By TheSouthernJackAss_poet

December 3, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

Twas the nite before winter meetings, when all thru the hotel, not a GM was stirring, not even Manaya. The free agents were hung on the open market with care, in hopes some rich team soon would be there.

The GMs were nestled all snug in their beds, while visions of flame throwers danced in their heads. But Schuerholz in his ‘kerchief, and Wren in his cap, had just settled in for a long winters nap.

When out in the lobby there arose such a clatter, Schuerholz sprang from his bed to see what was the matter. Away down the hall he flew like a flash, tore open his wallet, and checked for some cash.

Like the moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow, giving the lustre of midday to objects below, when, what to his wandering eyes should appear, but a well-dressed businessman arriving with a sneer.

With a big ol’ briefcase, this shark made him feel sick, he knew in a moment it was Boras, that Dick! More rapid than eagles, those GMs they all came, as he whistled and shouted and called all his free agents by name.

“Now Manny! Now Springer! Now, Soriano and Simon! On, Rocket!, On, Schmidt! On, Mercker and Glavine! And so teams with the cash! Had soon signed them all! Now dash away! Dash away! Dash away all!”

As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly, when they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky, so off the market all the free agents they flew, with pockets full of cash, and ol’ Boras too.

And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof the prancing and pawing of each little hoof. As I drew in my head and was turning around, down the stairs ran Bobby Cox with a bound.

He was dressed all in a “uni”, from his head to his feet, and on each foot he wore a tarnished ol’ cleat. A bundle of bats and balls he had flung on his back, he looked like a peddler just opening his sack.

His eyes—how they twinkled! His dimples, how merry! His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry! His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow, and the spittle on his chin was as white as the snow. He had a broad face and a little round belly, that shook when he laughed, like a bowl full of jelly.

Then breathlessly he asked Schuerholz which free agents he’d signed, “Well none you see, cause my hands are tied.” And said with the wink of an eye, and a tip of his hat, “there’s nothing to dread, we’ll just stand pat.”

So Bobby spoke not a word, but went straight to his work, and kicked Schuerholz’s @$$, then called him a jerk. And sliding two fingers inside of his nose, he pulled something out, and it wasn’t a rose.

Then he whirled around, and to his team gave a whistle, and away he flew like the down of a thistle. But I heard him exclaim, as he stomped out of sight,

“To Hell with the Braves, this shyt just ain’t right!”

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 3, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

DOB

not sure if you saw my post last night or are just ignoring me. (I can take it I’m a big boy! LOL!)

But, did you watch the My Boys series on TBS last night?

Sorta funny, I’ll watch a couple more before I “pass judgement”. Kinda reminds me of Freinds meets Arlyss.

By The Grinch

December 3, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

SJA, I’m now confident who you really are (I WAS RIGHT!). That’s some of your best work yet.

Richard Cory, I ain’t skeered. Braves take the division. You heard it here second.

By Richard Cory

December 3, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this

Grinch Bravo. Good for you. A man who stands up. Talk can be cheap, yours carries some weight. Braves win division next year: NO-2[SJA & Richard Cory] YES-1{the Grinch} Anyone else have any convictions?? No, Grinch, not those kind.

By MEB

December 3, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

SJA… bravo, bravo!

Count me in the Braves corner for another division title. Should be interesting with the Phillies and Mets struggling to keep pace.

By Carolina Lady

December 3, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

Well, let’s see….. Last year I came dangerously close to having to eat Crow Pie. But all the crows are gone now………..OK. I’ll join Grinch in the ‘Yes’ column. :-))

By rainman

December 3, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

You guys may have said something about it but i didnt know that the braves signed willie harris. Not a bad guy to have to play second or the outfield, good bat and real good speed.

By Richard Cory

December 3, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this

Good to see some ‘real’ fans. Fans that don’t just talk the talk, but walk the walk. NO-2 YES-3 I’m keeping score and Lord willing I’ll be right here to rehash everyone’s play. Next year some of us will be able to speak with a little added authority. Come on folks, you’re not saying what you want or don’t want to happen. You’re just trying to look at the ‘big picture’ and give your best analysis. So, step right up. Let’s hear it. Braves win division next year? Yes or No. Most of you know the situation. You know who owns the team. You know who manages both in the front office and in the field. With this info, you can surely make some sort of long range judgement.

By Heath

December 3, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this

what is the “over/under” date set for a deal by the breaves this offseason?….never?

By Lew

December 3, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

DOB-Yes, My son still speaks to me. Call him while you’re in Orlando and I’m sure he has some stories to tell. He called me just this morning to tell me ther roofers were there and I needed to send a check. Stinky-You actually know Dexy’s music. I’m impressed. There MAY be some humanity to you after all. No, I’m not a Whiny Little Jerk. NYFan called me a Cranky Old Bit##. That’s much closer to the truth. Richard Cory-Yes, The Braves will win the division the last weekend of the season, beating out the Mets by 2 games. How’s that for prognostication?

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

STOP THE PRESSES!!!

The Braves have made a move. Yes, they’ve made a move. Just not a very big one. At all.

They signed RHP Tanyon Sturtze, 36, to a one-year contract for not much money at all (I’ll get exact figure later). He’s coming off shoulder surgery (last May) and might not be ready to pitch in games until May, but they got him. So there.

He had a 7.60 ERA in 18 relief appearances for the Yankees last season before going to the DL and surgery. Has a career 40-44 record and 5.21 ERA in 269 games (84 starts).

OK, go back to watching football now.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 3, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

Well it’s that time of year again—retreads and gimps!…

By mariner

December 3, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

those are the kind of moves I don’t understand. doesn’t every team have 5 guys at least in the minors that can produce like sturtze? He’s old, coming off surgery, was never much of anything special. why bother?

By J-MAN

December 3, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

I’m not only picking my Braves to win the Divison but I’m picking them to win it all. The reason why is I’m an optimistic individual and I figure since there is no way we can loose 162-0, of course I’m being a little sarcastic but I don’t think its the time to make predictions right now since most of the free agents are signed and no deals have been made. Come asking around March or peferably June to get my official prediction, but if you want one here it is my gut tells me Braves finish season with a record of 94 wins and 68 defeats now I don’t know if that will win the division but it should at least bring in a Wild-Card.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

All Right-We now have our new Chris Reitsma. Come to think of it, we still have the old one, too.

By J-MAN

December 3, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

I might be wrong because I ain’t checked but didn’t Sturtz have a pretty good 2005 season for the Yankees so if they signed him to something like a minor league deal it wouldn’t be too bad of a risk.

By Carolina Lady

December 3, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

Why on earth did they spend the money for him??? That’s not an ‘improvement’!

By Carroll

December 3, 2006 07:30 PM | Link to this

Come on now people…you all know that the market has gone completely out of control this year, especially for pitching. That said, I think this is fairly solid. It’s like chicken soup when you’re sick…can’t hurt, might help. Worse-case-scenario, we’re no worse off than we were yesterday.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 3, 2006 07:37 PM | Link to this

I think I just saw Raul Mondesi headed toward Atlanta!

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this

J-Man, he did have a decent (at least durable) year for them in 2004 _ career-high 64 appearances, 4.73 ERA. Hey, I said decent.

Braves are betting that he’ll come back strong from rotator-cuff surgery and be able to help them out as a middle reliever and/or starter.

Get used to it. This is the new reality for the Braves, at least until the payroll’s raised. They take the affordable scraps and take some gambles on guys like this.

And it’s a guaranteed $750,000 deal, potentially worth twice that if he makes the team and then hits his incentives.

Orlando _ The Braves made the first free-agent signing at the winter meetings, though not exactly one that threatens the balance of power in the NL East.

They signed right-hander Tanyon Sturtze, 36, who’s coming off May shoulder surgery and might not be ready when the season begins. He had a 7.60 ERA in 18 relief appearances for the New York Yankees in 2006, after posting a 4.73 ERA in a career-high 64 appearances for them in 2005.

Sturtze is guaranteed $750,000, plus another $350,000 if he’s on the 25-man major league roster at any point. He can make up to $450,000 more in bonuses based on appearances as a starter and reliever.

The Worcester, Mass., native has pitched for six major league teams in 11 seasons and has a 40-44 record and 5.21 ERA in 269 games (84 starts).

Sturtze was Tampa Bay’s team MVP in 2001, when he was 11-12 with a 4.42 ERA in 39 games, including 27 starts. He was 4-18 in 33 starts the following season and has been used primarily as a reliever in recent seasons. He’s made just four starts in the past three seasons.

Officials with the Braves and other teams arrived Sunday at a Disneyworld resort, where baseball’s annual winter meetings will run through Thursday.

There were informal meetings Sunday, and the officially begins Monday.

Braves general manager John Schhuerholz’s priority is strengthening the pitching staff, but Atlanta doesn’t have room in its payroll to go after high-priced free agents.

By Phat Bat Boy

December 3, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

Anyone else notice the pattern of how Scherholts is always “shocked” when free agents walk away from him? You have to wonder if he is selling us some crap that he is always close to a deal and had the carpet pulled out or if he truly is incredulous when a player turns down the Braves (is that arrogant or what)? Anyway, we will once again be forced to trade away prospects for players, likely on a short term deal. Already getting the “Boyer will be healthy” line. We are probably within days of hearing how well the rehab of Foster, Stockman and Reitsma is going. Is there any reason to believe this team will finish above the Marlins for second place? None that I can think of.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Reitsma, you guys may or may not want to hear this, I’m not sure: He came by and threw for a couple of Braves officials a few weeks back when he was in town, to show that his elbow is recovering from surgery quite nicely. Braves report on him was good.

I’m starting to believe more and more he’ll be competing for a job this spring. Hey, he was a good setup man with Cincy and the Braves before his arm problems … I’m just saying … OK, I’ll stop.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

J-Man, I meant to say 2005 not 2004, in my reply to you. About Sturtze’s pretty good year.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 3, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this

Oh that’s right, Im not wanted nor welcome on this blog, Adios!…

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this

Just looking up some stats on Sturtze with Stats Inc, saw couple interesting numbers.

First, I can see part of the appeal probably for the Braves: Lefties only hit .233 with a .308 OBP against the righty in his 64-appearance season in 2005, and he’s improved in that area with years of experience.

Over three-year span 2003-05, lefties hit .258/.354/.422 against him, righties .283/.350/.468.

The other thing I noticed: The Yanks rode him like a rented mule when Sturtze had a hot hand early in 2005. From May 5 to June 8 that season, he pitched 20-2/3 innings in 16 relief appearances, allowing just one earned run (0.44 ERA0 and 12 hits (.171 opp avg) with 12 strikeouts and one walk. The man was on fire.

Of course, by the following May his shoulder was on fire.

By MadduxRules

December 3, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

Well, I certainly hope the Braves and JS have something up their sleeve. I mean if that lefty from NY was seriously their number one target of the offseason, haven’t they had more than a couple of weeks to formulate a gameplan? Wasn’t their season over in early October? It just seems they could have done something. Okay, Okay, we are over this, right?

I sure hope they do something. Personally, I think they should try and trade Andruw instead of letting him walk next year.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this

DOB-I know a million bucks is chicken feed by today’s standard, but still….Should we expect BC to come out and tell us that Sturtze really only had one bad pitch in one bad outing? The one that made his arm fall off.

By Don

December 3, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

Looks like we are off and running in 2007. We just signed another washed up, never was, oft injured, weak spirited jabroni to fit in with the other washed up, never was, oft injured, weak spirited jabronis in the Bullpen. Man, are my spirits lifted!

By BravesFaninRockies

December 3, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Re: Sturze’s flaming shoulder,

Well, that’s been Torre’s MO forever. I remember seeing the Braves fall from contention to shame at Fulton one long weekend in ‘84, because Steve Bedrosian’s arm was about to fall off. Bedrock had been used as a starter, middle reliever, closer, you name it.

Torre’s become a genius because he was lucky to have the inhuman Mariano Rivera closing for the past decade. Dude just started showing signs of wear and tear the past couple seasons. Any normal person would have burned out long ago. (See Wetteland, Proctor, Stanton, etc.) IMO, I’d bet the Yankees don’t go to another WS because Rivera can no longer pitch 80+ games effectively any more. And if he can’t, the Yanks are screwed.

By Richard Cory

December 3, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

Lew Thanks for your participation. I’m writing it all down. Next year, some can say, “well, I said way back last December—-“. I do hope I’m the one on the wrong side of this fence, but when I look at the ‘market situation, Smoltz’s age, Chipper’s failing ‘health’, and all the other tell, tell signs of an organization in retreat, I am more convinced than ever that our ship is sinking.

By Dj

December 3, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this

DOB

Are you hearing anything about Hudson going to Baltimore for Penn and a prospect? I cannot believe his salary is an issue because of what it is costing to get mid level pitchers. Hudson is not exactly what we wanted but is still a very good pitcher. I would take him over Lily and Meche Etc.

By Carolina Lady

December 3, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t that be ‘tell tale’ signs?
Just askin’! :-)

By Ray Goof

December 3, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

John is totally losing it now. You only have an $80 million payroll to play with and probably just a few million for the offseason so you throw about a million at a guy who would be lucky to get through next season with an era in the mid 4s. RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Lew

December 3, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

Richard Cory-I actually make dated predictions every year at the end of spring training. Division winners, series participants, MVP’s, etc. I’m about 50% accurate on the division winners and about 20% correct on the rest. Not that great, but….

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 3, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

Hope this Sturtze gamble works. Still I think it’s a questionable move before the Winter meetings even begin.

By mike

December 3, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this

Last I heard, Beltran is STILL standing with his bat on his shoulders at home plate.

By MadduxRules

December 3, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this

From ESPN Insider:

It appears the Astros will pursue pitching via a trade, the Houston Chronicle reports. The club hopes a package that includes a reliever and either Morgan Ensberg or Willy Taveras will bring a quality starter.

I wonder if they consider Ramirez a quality starter? Taveras could play LF and bat leadoff. They have some good relievers that could help the Braves’ pen. Trade them Hudson and get Lidge (yes, I know he didn’t have a great year, but I think he is somewhere between what he was two years ago and last year), Taveras, and a prospect.

By NYM

December 3, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

Lew….You wrote a lot to me but said little. All I was saying is that this time last year Brave fans said the Mets did not have enough pitching to win. Obviously they were wrong. Now I’m hearing the same thing. That’s it. I’m not chest thumping, I’m making a point. Don’t turn it into something else. Oh, if smoke and mirror are what it takes to win the east again Ill take it.

By NYM

December 3, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this

Last I heard the Braves were still under .500 and watching the playoffs from the couch.

By The Grinch

December 3, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

I must admit the Sturtze move puzzles me greatly. Is he really trying to tell us Boyer, Foster, Yates, McBride, etc. can’t give us an ERA in the high 4’s out of the bullpen for what we’re already paying them? We’re not short of pitchers, just short of good ones. I can only imagine this is a precursor to a trade involving relief pitchers, otherwise this was a heckuva waste. BTW, I just scored a 7 out of 10 on the “Test your Grinch IQ” link under the Holiday Guide section. That’s embarrassing.

By Richard Cory

December 3, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady I do believe you are correct. I stand[actually I’m sitting] corrected. Also, thanks for your participation. We’ll see who the real men, oh uh, well er uh you know. I mean, we’ll see who the real prognosticators are.

By DCarp23

December 3, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

Not knowing exactly where the Braves payroll is standing at this point, I’d imagine that it is pretty close to maxed out. Thus the only real option is going to be to sign guys like this to deals like this. Basically, you could sign one guy like a Russ Springer to a $3 million dollar deal (if you’re lucky, because someone will probably give him multiple years for more money), or you could sign guys like Tanyon Sturtze who are less risky financially and likely as rewardable. I am not sure what other kinds of arms the Braves are in a financial position to sign, and if Russ Springer is the high mark, it’s a good indication that the cupboard is bare. And obviously Braves scouts found something they liked in Sturtze.

By DCarp23

December 3, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this

Maddux Rules-I agree with you that Houston seems to be a great team with which to pursue a deal. They do have a number of arms in the pen that have been mentioned as available and have the capacity to take on a contract like Hudson’s (assuming, of course, that they would want to).

However, I’d be very surprised if the Braves have any interest in Taveras. His OBP is very middle of the road, and he gets caught stealing at a pretty high rate, which effectively lowers that OBP. Most noticeably, he slugs .340-which means that when he does get hits, they don’t accomplish much. And he’s a strikeout machine. So I’d be surprised if the Braves saw a spot for him in this lineup.

By The Grinch

December 3, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this

It never ceases to amaze me when Mets fans come on here talking smack about us “still being under .500 and sitting on the couch.” Like until last year that didn’t describe your team every year since “The Karate Kid” came out.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 3, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

Well, let’d hope the Sturtze sighing is the equivalent of the Matt Diaz trade…both low profile, but provided dividends.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

NYM-Actuaslly, Dude, I said alot. You just choose not to beklieve what I say. The Mets’ rotastion as it stands right now is not good enough to run away with the divisdion, no matter what you think. Pedro is not going to be useful to you this year, maybe at all. No matter what you think. You may not be able to sign a top line pitcher. No matter what you think. There are at least seven teams out thewre with as much, if not more money than the Mets. Fact, Dude, whether or not you might want to believe it. You have two 40+ year old pitchers anchoring your rotation. Neither one of which can be considered a number one pitcher. No way to spin that one, is there. You’re the one that challenged me and told ME to take a lesson from last year, so don’t make it sound like I’m starting grief-I’m not, merely responding to what you perceive the state of affairs to be. Don’t blame me for pointing out to you that the outlook may not be as rosy as you would like it to be. Besides, as Mike just said a few posts ago, Beltran may still be standing with his bat on his shoulder. Looking incontinent.

By Lew

December 3, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

DCarp-Actually, Russ Springer is able to pitch and Sturtze is not. You’re right about Tavares, though. As far as the cupboard being bare, that’s not exactly true, but even if it is sparse at the moment, keep in mind that we just brought up Paronto, McBride, Boyer, Davies, and James all at once and all probably before their time. There are still players in the pipeline, but you can’t bring up 18 rookies in one year and then wonder why you aren’t going to have much help from the farm system for a while. The bullpen, as it stands, is considerably better than it was at this time last year, or even what it was in June of last year.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

BravesFaninRockies, you’re absolutely right about Torre. That’s his MO. Talked to a Yankees writer tonight who said exactly same thing when I mentioned that stat to him, that hot month he had. His reply was that Torre rides ‘em till they break down, because he knows Cashman can just go buy him another….

By DCarp23

December 3, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this

Lew By cupboard is bare, I was talking about free agent relievers, particularly those that can be squeezed into a budget. I think the Braves have a pretty good crew in tow from last year as well, particularly considering how well McBride, Villareal and Yates pitched down the stretch. If you add Wickman and Paronto, a Boyer that pitches up to his billing and a healthy Reitsma (physically and psychologically), I think you have a bullpen that could be pretty successful. Even with the better Braves teams, I think there was a greater dropoff in quality from the back of the pen to the front than there is in this one.

Additionally, the fact that last year’s squad finished the season +44 in run differential bodes well for this years group as well.

That said, if the starters don’t pitch more innings this April than they did last April, this bullpen might meet the same fate.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this

DJ, I can’t imagine them trading Hudson now for Penn and a prospect. If they deal him, gotta have another top-of-rotation starter ready to step in….

Sturtze is a gamble, but that’s where the Braves are. If he comes back strong, he’s a helluva bargain in this market _ a veteran who can make 65 appearances and/or swing between bullpen and rotation if needed, at barely $1 mill, is a huge bargain. Now, if he DOESN’T come back, they’ve wasted $750,000.

By ExpertTexpert

December 3, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this

Tanyon Sturtze. Another Band-Aid for the sucking chest wound that is the Braves’ middle relief corps.

By Greg in TN

December 3, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the update and the information DOB. Enjoy your time in the land of the Mouse.

I’ve had a few days to digest the last week. I’m still of the mind that it would have been nice to have Glavine, but I am sleeping just as well that he’s still in NY.

I think the animosity between Glavine and JS is still there, still strong or else this deal gets done. I agree with you DOB, all it took was for someone to pick up the dam& phone on Thursday to let someone know what was going on, or at least touch base with somebody.

At first, I was a little incredulous about the signing of Sturtze, but DOBs stats did provide a little ray of hope.

To the folks braying against Time Warner for not spending more money. Well, they can’t. They’re in the middle of selling the team, so everything remains the same. No Ted Turner or Bill Bartholomay on a shiny white horse to gallop in with a checkbook and save the day. That shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. It will not change until Liberty finalizes the deal. There will be a bump in payroll. I am very confident of that, the question is, how much? We’ll find that out before too long.

I enjoyed reading the thoughts of Ken Williams. Further proof that the free agent market is totally out of whack and I am glad we didn’t have a chance to contribute to that kind of crazyness. Not that we ever had or ever will. I’d rather take a pass on making a splash if it means wrecking payroll to the point where we don’t have flexibility later if we need it.

Oh, and Richard? Put me down for the Braves on top next year.

By eware

December 3, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this

DOB, I checked out Ella Guru yesterday. Great store - thanks for recommending it. Gots me an Old 97’s and Southern Bit-h album (rockin Athens band).

I’m game for gambling on players like Sturtze and Reitsma. I have a feeling ole Reits is going to have a great year, cause he’ll be determined to prove everyone in Atlanta wrong. I just hope people can get over 2006.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this

Was talking to a Marlins official in the lobby tonight, and he told me they’re sincere about keeping Dontrelle this year. They’re really not going to trade him. They have a couple _ yes, two, _ 6-foot-8 pitchers coming up and one or two other quality arms, and a year from now they think they’ll have 5-6 quality young starters to form a rotation, at which point they can trade Donrelle for a huge return. But right now, they’re not confident enough in all those young kids in their second season being able to avoid a setback or injury, etc.

By the way, those who think Braves already have enough relievers _ just remember what happened this past season. They thought they had enough relievers and starters, and it turned out they were fishing in their minor league system by May for castoffs and journeymen. Think of their pitching staff at times this year, how many inexperienced or unproven pitchers they had at any given time.

They want to have proven depth, and without a lot of money to spend, they have to take some risks on guys like Sturtze, or so they believe. Can’t fault the logic, given what happened last year.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

Oh, and thanks for the message, BILLY. I appreciate it.

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 3, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

DOB,

just got done reading your “plan B” article. based on the players available, the market, who we’d have to give up in a trade, etc, it looks like aybar is our best leadoff option.

i keep seeing that the drawback of having him hit leadoff is that the braves will need him as a backup for chipper. why does that affect his hitting leadoff daily? couldn’t he do so while playing 2B and 3B?

By Will

December 3, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

DOB - Did you read from Peter Gammons that Hampton contacted the Braves about restructuring his contract so the Braves could sign Glavine? If that was true, it must have either been not enough or too late. But would Hampton still restructure to help sign someone else besides Glavine? I sure would hope so.

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 3, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

DOB,

just got done reading your “plan B” article. based on the players available, the market, who we’d have to give up in a trade, etc, it looks like aybar is our best leadoff option.

i keep seeing that the drawback of having him hit leadoff is that the braves will need him as a backup for chipper. why does that affect his hitting leadoff daily? couldn’t he do so while playing 2B and 3B?

i know that doesn’t quite solve the 2B possibility for when chipper goes down…so what about having a rookie (escobar, prado) fill in at 2B (and bat 8th) for when chipper’s out? either that or try to go after another infield utility player.

i’m keeping in mind that aybar was acquired to be that infield utility player, but it just seems like we’re going to be unable to find a leadoff player who plays 2B or LF, so we’ll have to fill the hole from within the system.

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 3, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

DCarp23

You said:

“And he’s a strikeout machine. So I’d be surprised if the Braves saw a spot for him in this lineup.”

Sounds to me as though HE’D FIT RIGHT IN! LOL!

By DCarp23

December 4, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this

DOB-Technical question for you. When a guy like Sturtze is signed (and I assume that he was on the 60 day DL in NY), does he automatically go on the 60 day DL in Atlanta? Can he be immediately placed on the 60 day DL? Or do disabled lists “reset” in the offseason, and he is simply placed on the 40 man?

By Ray Goof

December 4, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

DCarp23 Would that be the same Braves scouts who found something they liked in Danny Kolb?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

I think the Braves should explore offering the Astros Horacio Ramirez, Ryan Langerhans, and a prospect for either Lidge or Taveras or both if the Astros would do it. Taveras would more than fill the leadoff position and I think a change of scenery would do Lidge a lot of good. Can you imagine having Lidge as the setup guy to Wickman? Besides Lidge would know that the closer job would be his when Wickman retired whether that be in 2008 or 2009.

For those who don’t think the leadoff position is that big of a deal I ask this question. If Giles is traded, which is most certainly will be, then who will be the leadoff hitter? Prado? Is he capable of doing that? Diaz isn’t patient enough. McCann is too slow. Who would do it? It amazes me the shortsightedness of some of the people on this blog. Guys like Melkey Cabrerra, Chione Figgins, Willy Taveras, Scott Posednik, and perhaps even Jacque Jones could be acquired with the right deal. Horacio would fill out a solid rotation very nicely.

I really love how some people on here resort to name calling but never offer any solutions. I love the Braves as much as anyone and really get tired of my loyalty and sense being questioned. Some jackass last night basically called me inane because I suggested that a Giles for Figgins trade could intrigue the Angles. Can someone tell me what that deal sounds so ridiculous?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

By the way, if Ryan Klesko can be signed for $3 mil or less the Braves would be silly not to sign him. His bat would provide some more pop to the lineup. If they aren’t going to get a leadoff hitter who can get on base and create runs, then they need to get another big bat who can hit some homers and doubles and pray that all of these guys don’t go into slumps all at once.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 12:35 AM | Link to this

DCarp, rosters are reset in offseason, and he was taken off DL. He’s on Braves 40-man now. If they need to they can put him on 60-day DL, but then he’d be assured of being out until at least late May….

If the Braves got into restructing Hampton’s contract, it’s such a large sum he’s still owed that you’d be talking about taking significant money out into the future, and that’s another thing that you wouldn’t do with ownership in flux. When Chipper restructured, he took less while turning option years into guaranteed years. Hampton’s years are already guaranteed, no option years.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this

Daybed, I’d imagine the scenario you laid out _ Aybar at second base, shift to third if needed _ is something they’d consider if they don’t get another second baseman and Esbobar or Prado isn’t ready.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this

Eware, great to hear you found Ella Gura. Was old man Don there, or just the two younger guys he has working for him? If Don (tall, scraggly, good-natured dude) is there next time you go, tell him i sent you.

I’m with you on the rationale on taking some gambles on pitchers. you gotta do it when you’ve got limited resources, rather than overspending for mediocrity.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 01:02 AM | Link to this

Escobar, not ‘bobar. But I like the sound of Esbobar…

By Lew

December 4, 2006 01:28 AM | Link to this

DOB-Escobar not ready? Didn’t he just win the batting tile in the Arizona Fall League? Won’t that at least get him a shot this spring? You asked earlier if I like Dylan. Yes. Especially Blood On the Tracks and Desire, though John Wesley Harding is a favorite, also. I have not heard the new one yet.

By A.J.

December 4, 2006 04:01 AM | Link to this

Robert

Of course we’d love to have a legit leadoff hitter, but it’s not that simple a proposition.

A true leadoff hitter is a very complete player. It’s not just speed, but he also should be at least a solid hitter, with a very good OBP.

Consider Tavares, his OBP was less than that of Diaz’s because he’s not a great hitter. Obviously we can’t expect Diaz to hit every year like he did this year, but compare Furcal to Tavares.

There is no doubt that Furcal while speedy, was at times a very frustrating leadoff man, because he didn’t understand the job enough to be a complete player. I can’t count how many times I watched Furcal fly out, when a walk or a slap to the left side would have put the tying or winning run on base. Well consider that Tavares had 33 walks this year, compared to 60, 58 and 62 for Furcal his last three season in ATL.

Consider these stats from last season: Tavares: 547 AB, 147 H, 25 XBH, 83 R, 33 BB, .333 OBP Giles: 550 AB, 144 H, 45 XBH, 87 R, 62 BB, .341 OBP

And all this in a year when Giles clearly struggled. Sure Tavares had 20 more steals 23 more steals, but it sure didn’t lead to more runs. If you combine steals with Extra base hits they become the same person.

Podsednick looks almost a mixture of the Giles and Tavares, bad BA, few extra base hits, mediocre OBP. Figgins had basically the exact season as Giles with lots more steals and lots fewer total bases. Jones is a power hitter, with only 9 steals and a .335 OBP. Cabrera far and away better at getting on base than the others you mentioned, but he still isn’t a basestealer if that is so important. He might be a great leadoff man, but one if you think he’s Jose Reyes think again, and the Yankees won’t be trading him anyway.

For someone like Podsednik, Figgins or Tavares (lots of speed, no power) in order for that speed to worth anything they’ve got to be on base a lot, like in the .360 range, because it’s more than just stealing bases, it’s about being on to run fast when your 2-3-4 guys get hits.

Guys like Jose Reyes with a good OBP, a little pop in the bat for XBHs, and that speed that just scares the other teams are about as rare as Pujols or Vlad-type power hitters (and even he could walk a lot more).

When you don’t have that man made to be a leadoff man, you have to take someone who’s more incomplete. Speed would be great, but as far as incomplete leadoff men go, I’d much rather take on that can get on base a whole bunch with OK/Solid speed, than one who is like lightning once he gets on, but doesn’t know how get there.

By A.J.

December 4, 2006 04:17 AM | Link to this

Robert - Guys like Tavares, Figgins and Podsednik can steal lots of bases, but they neither hit very well for average or walk all that much. (Tavares - .278 BA, .333 OBP, Figgins - .267 BA, .336 OBP, Podsednik - .261 BA, .330 OBP) Compare that to Giles - .262 BA, .341 OBP (and that on a terribly off year) and add to that the fact that Giles can hit for doubles (roughly equal to a single and a stolen base).

Whether it’s a singles hitter with lots of speed, or a doubles hitter with solid speed, the most important thing is to get on base for the guys behind.

Cabrera is the best one you listed at getting on base (but don’t think they Yankees will give him up soon) and he is not your proto-typical speed man. Jones is a flat out power hitter, no stolen bases, no OBP.

The deal is you’re not going to trade for someone like Jose Reyes who is both scary fast and gets on base, not to mention has a little pop in the bat. Even he could walk a lot more. So you pick between a guy with low OBP and high speed, or less speed but better hitters, higher OBP.

Of the guys you mentioned (other than Cabrera) Figgins is probably the best as last year was a off year, and he is a lot better at getting on base than Tavares and Podsednik plus can pick up some XBH’s, but that’s still a gamble. Compare a top Figgins season to a top Giles season (one more experienced at leading off than last year) and while you have more speed with Figgins, I wouldn’t be too quick to say you’re that much better off than with Giles.

The point is that noone we will get will be Furcal, and even Furcal got on base way less than he should have had he understood the role better.

We will not have an awesome prototype leadoff man, so we have to pick the pieces that best suit us, sometimes that means taking a hit speedwise.

By A.J.

December 4, 2006 04:28 AM | Link to this

I did not mean to send both versions, after the first I couldn’t get back to the blog page, I thought that it hadn’t sent, so I did it again. But it had, oh well.

By NYM

December 4, 2006 06:15 AM | Link to this

We could go round and round with this Lew. You could give me all your point views you like. You can continue to not address my statement. but here it is again. I never said the Mets don’t have work to do in regards to their pithcing needs. But you could say that for about 90% of the teams. Ok here I go again. Most Brave fans considered the Mets pitching to be weak and not be good enough to win the division. Now say it with me Lew….”You were wrong”. Give credit were credit it due. Minaya Did a great job with picking up players that came through and got us 97 wins. I have faith he’ll get the job done again.

By ncscoots

December 4, 2006 06:36 AM | Link to this

A.J., you might as well archive those couple of posts re leadoff hitters, you’ll need ‘em again later. I have posted the same kind of stats and logic the past few months, and the same suspects keep getting named on the blog. Guess my posts have become eminently scrollable!

Speed kills, but it seems it also blinds. And folks forget the simple fact that it doesn’t matter how much speed you have when you’re jogging back to the dugout.

By Vs519

December 4, 2006 07:29 AM | Link to this

Yes!! We got Sturtze!! We got Stur…wait a minute. Who??

By JasonInMaine

December 4, 2006 07:53 AM | Link to this

DOB,

I know you can’t predict the future, but do you think Giles will be traded before the end of the meetings? Are you still of the opinion that the two most likely guys to be traded are Ramirez and Giles?

Regards, Jason

By Richard Cory

December 4, 2006 07:55 AM | Link to this

Greg in TN Gotcha down for a yes. Thanks for your input.

By 22oz

December 4, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this

The Braves have the perfect leadoff hitter & second baseman already in their system in Pete Orr. I know his defense in lacking, but so was Marcus’ when he started. A little work with Glenn Hubbard would help Pete in a big way. The guy hustles so hard, it would be like another David Eckstein if it worked. He should at least get a shot in the spring.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best)and AJ,

Renteria or whoever is in LF could leadoff. Again, I go back to several studies that indicate batting order doesn’t matter that much. Arranging a batting order in the right way is only worth a handful of runs a year, maybe 1-3 wins. Who’s in the lineup is more important than where they hit.

Again I also point to the fact the Braves scored the 2nd most runs in the NL without a speedy, prototypical leadoff hitter—they never scored that many runs with Furcal.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

Speed kills, but it seems it also blinds. And folks forget the simple fact that it doesn’t matter how much speed you have when you’re jogging back to the dugout.

Well said, ncscoots. That’s why on-base percentage (which is the exact same thing as out-avoiding percentage) is more critical than stolen bases or anything else a prototypical leadoff man might do well.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this

ncscoots, AJ, Robert,

Having a prototypical leadoff guy is very nice (high OBP, speed, high AVG), but I don’t think the Braves should give up a quality player/players or a lot of money for one when the offense is fine (2nd most runs in the NL in ‘06). If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

The only thing the Braves should give up hitters for, if anything, are quality pitchers.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this

22oz,

Something else is lacking in Pete Orr—the ability to hit. His career OBP is .304, which means he makes an out in almost 70 percent of his plate appearances.

By CC Rider

December 4, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this

DOB, I just had an epiphany in regards to why it seems John S. appears to have no interest in trading Andruw Jones. It would seem logical to pursue a trade to one of the teams looking for a big bat (Dodgers, Angels Padres) or Centerfielder(White Sox, Red Sox, Giants) and acquire young pitching or a potential replacement if you felt you had no chance at resigning Druw. I think the reason we all assumed this was extremely unlikely is because we are so mad at the 3 year freeze in payroll and how hamstrung John S. is in terms of making important upgrades we need. I think John S. either knows or is convinced next year after the sale is completed the Braves payroll will take a significant jump. It seems to make since when you consider teams most teams are spending the extra TV and licensing money now. This jump might very likely give the Braves the flexibility to sign Andruw. The contracts of Chipper, Hampton Smoltz, Renteria all expire in the next 2 years. Chipper, if he is healthy and stays will make less. Renteria will move on, replaced by Escobar or Andrus. Smoltz will probably be retired in 2 years and Hampton may be resigned but at a more reasonable price. Laroache may become to expensive and be replaced by Salty or Kaihahue. Am I crazy? I think this seems very possible. I think it is still possible Hudson gets traded if the right young pitcher becomes available. His contract in the 2 seasons after 2007 might interfere with reshaping the pitching staff and I felt like the last 2 months of the season Cormier and Villareal both showed the ability to be solid starters, but more 4 or 5 in the rotation. Smoltz, Hampton, James Ramirez and Cormier/Villareal might be just as good without the long term commitment on a pitcher that has not lived up to his past. One last thought, do you know about the health of Darin Erstad? He once led off for the Angels and if healthy might be the kind of cheap pickup that could pay big dividends. He is only 32 years old and plays a great outfield when healthy.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

CC Rider,

Erstad has basically had two good years in his entire career and the fact that he’s 32 is not a good thing.

By Hammer 44

December 4, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

If you read the Saturday NY Times article on Glavine’s signing, it appears the Braves were always a long shot to get him…

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/02/sports/baseball/02mets.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

So…as always…it comes down to the money, eh, Tommy??? Good riddance.

By CC Rider

December 4, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I know Erstad is not a great player, but when healthy hits right handers very well, plays a very good outfield,can play 1st base in case of injury, can steal bases and hustles like crazy with some pop in his bat. The idea was a platoon in left with Diaz and if healthy he would be a cheap risk in the same injured spirit of Tanyon Stulze. The 2 players on base% would be high batting against their prefered pitching, thus creating an potential cheap high on base percentage leadoff hitter. HEY GUY, put your stats to work, your the stat man. Find us a low cost high on base percentage guy, we need one.

By Phat Bat Boy

December 4, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

Tis the season and I haven’t read anything about favorite holiday albums on this blog (maybe I missed it during the mourning sessions for Glavine).

Anyway, Etta James released a Christmas album maybe 5 years ago. Sure its not from her prime years of the 60s but it is still an outstanding set of holiday songs. The band is remarkable and she gives traditional Christmas songs a nice raw edge without turning them into something that requires a cigarette and a double whiskey shot.

Oh yeah, baseball. I get annoyed when Scherholtz moans about the free agent prices. Baseball players are not DVD players, their prices go up year-over-year and not down. His reclamation strategy for our bullpen has clearly been hit or miss. Sounds like we have Stockman, Reitsma, Foster, Boyer and now Sturtze as members of Project Home Depot. How about Luis Gonzales in a platoon with Diaz in left field? That’ll also give Cox another veteran/clubhouse leader on the team. Ho, ho, ho!

By Dennis

December 4, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

DOB

Hope you are enjoying the Florida weather! The Sturtze signing is not a bad one. He was a workhorse and was pretty successful until he got hurt. I’m not sure we will get that much for Giles. I have heard Giles for D Cabrerra of the O’s. That is a puzzling trade, makes no sense for the O’s unless they trade Roberts of move him to first base.

We need to fill the minor league system with solid young arms. I would trade Hudson for Loewen or Penn and a propsect. They will learn along the way but long term the Braves wont be any worse off with Penn over Hudson. Even with Glavine gone we still need to go after the type of pitchers that can win playoff games in the future. I do not think Glavine is that guy any more.

Also Salty is a talent that many would like to have. Is he trade bait for the Braves this time around?

By Jake

December 4, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

Tom Glavine is an a*. I hope he blows his arm out and doesnt win another game.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

NYM-What is this? Flippin’ Groundhog Day? I don’t have to address you or give you the time of day. All last season we were barraged by a bunch of Mets’ fans intent on “putting us in our place”. If you don’t like what I say in response to your attempt to tell us we don’t have a clue, then go away. Yes, we said you had no pitching last year and you won the division. Big Damn Deal. All last year we were constantly told by obnoxious Mets’ fans that winning a division didn’t mean diddly if you didn’t win the series. You didn’t. The Mets choked-just like the Braves were accused of doing. Yes, you won despite your God Awful pitching last year, but your pitching (as it is now shaping up) is much worse than last year. Pedro is gone-maybe for good. Trachsel is gone (you should be happy, like we’re happy Sosa is gone). All you Mets fans think you are just going to be able to buy anyone you need. It’s not so. I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t sign a top line pitcher. Maybe the Braves won’t compete with you for free agents, but you have at least 7 other teams that have as much money as you do and need top line pitching. I acknowledge you won despite pitching inadequacies last year. Are you now happy? But this is a new year and lightning will not strike twice and you will not win with smoke and mirrors pitching again. There. I’ve used my weekly allotment of cliches in one sentence. I don’t really care if this addresses your post or not. Get over yourself and your pitching dead team.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 4, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

Tanyon Sturtze before Daryl Ward???? ….. Wow.

Hey Grinch,

Thanks for the condolences on the SEC CG. Once again our secondary looked sickly and for some reason when it gets crunch time, we fail to get the ball to one of the top offensive performers in the nation . My philosophy is to live and die with your best playmaker. Top it off with a questionable decision to try and make a fair catch on the 3 yard line, and you’ve got Arkansas going to the Capital One Bowl to face Wisconsin. What a disastrous ending to a beautiful season.

Tanyon Sturtze, Huh? Is Wayne Franklin still around? If so maybe they can have adjacent lockers…..

By Matthew

December 4, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

In my view, Tom Glavine ceased to exist after 2002. When he goes to the HOF, hopefully it will be in a Braves cap, and I can remember the days before he disappeared.

Oh and Richard Cory, put me down as a yes on winning the division, the pennant, and the World Series. I would’ve posted earlier, but I do most of my posting on the clock (shame on me). And before I am lambasted for my pick, it’s December. Rational picks are not made until September…

I remember Sturtze’s good years, and how everyone was bragging on him. If our scouts saw something in him, then I trust that. To the person who said, “these are the same scouts who saw something in Dan Kolb,” they did see something. A good closer on a bad team, with the potential to do better. One mistake does not a bad scouting system make.

SJA Except for the profanity, your poem was hysterical. Thanks for the laugh. When I read, “and sliding two fingers inside of his nose, he pulled something out, and it wasn’t a rose,” I almost spewed Coke Zero all over the monitor.

DOB what can you tell us about this Willie Harris signing that was posted earlier? I haven’t seen it on the Braves’ mlb.com page. Can you enlighten us?

I cannot write a short post. Sorry about that.

Go Hogs in the Capitol One Bowl. DOB will you still be in Orlando around New Year’s? If you are, the Hogs are a great team to root for! I’ve already converted the Grinch.

By Bo

December 4, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

Thanks Lew.

By Rodger

December 4, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

Wow-I’m feelin’ great this morning! We sign a guy with an ERA around 5, AND we may have Reeksma again! Does life get any better?

By Lew

December 4, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

Bo-You’re welcome. One thing I didn’t mention to NYM-The Braves now have Sturze. Quake in your boots. Hillbilly-I, too, send me condolences on the SEC Championship. I was pulling for the Hogs. Being a faithful UGA alum, anyone playing the Gators is one of my favorite teams. Like Ohio State.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 4, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

Thanks Lew,

Did anybody who watched the game notice the Florida punter at the end of the game? Before he punted to AR, he mocked our punter on the field by doing the “Skinner pre-kick routine.” What a complete class-less jackass!! I gotta say though that some of our defensive players were mocking the gator chomp during the game to, so I guess they’re jackasses just the same.

By Carolina Lady

December 4, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Arkansas Hillbilly, looks like you’re gonna have to change your name!

The “Politically Correct” mafia has issued this decree:

“Henceforth, it has been decided that all people residing in the mountains of Ky, NC, SC, GA, AR, TN, WV, etc. will now be known as Appalachian Americans. Compliance is mandatory.”

Just thought you’d like to know…. :-))))

By Lew

December 4, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Hillbilly-Refer to my previous post. Anything done to Gators doesn’t count. They deserve it. South Carolina, too, by virtue of association with Spurrier. Hell hath no fury like a beaten Bulldog. Go Dawgs.

By KC

December 4, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

DOB and Ken Rosenthal have reported that the Braves were trying to trade Tim Hudson to clear room for Glavine. First of all DOB: what information led you to the conclusion that the Braves were shopping Hudson??

I’m not doubting you, DOB, but it surprises me to hear that the Braves might have been looking to deal Hudson, and not Ramirez, to clear space for Glavine. Where did this info come from?

Anyway… let’s just say the rumors are true, and the Braves were trying to trade him to make room for Glavine. If that’s true, does that mean the Braves have lost confidence in Hudson? Well they certainly couldn’t have as much confidence in him now as they had when they acquired him 2 years ago, but I doubt it would be accurate to say that they don’t still have confidence in him.

The Braves must still feel he has significant value, or else they would have pulled the trigger on whatever deal they could swing to quickly unload Hudson and make room for Glavine. Even if they believe in Hudson, trading him and signing Glavine makes some sense. If JS had garnered the return he was seeking for Hudson (and if he given more time, he might have done so) the Braves might have gained a top-level prospect or a setup man and a lefty reliever in exchange for Huddy. Would the Braves be better off with Glavine next year instead of Hudson? Most people in this forum seem to think so, but I think that’s highly debatable. However, if you consider adding Glavine plus what Hudson might have brought in a trade VS. keeping Hudson… that starts to look pretty attractive.

My point is that if the Braves were in fact shopping Hudson, they weren’t trying to deal Hudson to make room for Glavine. If that were the case, they would have done so 2-3 weeks ago. If the Huddy-shopping rumors are true, that means they were willing to part Hudson in order to gain Tom Glavine PLUS the significant return they were hoping to get for Hudson… while (presumably-if all of this had taken place) paying only a couple million more to Glavine than they would have owed Hudson. That makes a certain amount of sense even if you are quite confident in Hudson.

I would guess that JS and company still feel pretty good about Hudson in a Braves uniform.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

CC Rider,

Erstad has been pretty aweful since 2000. Even at a possible discount, he’s a bad choice.

Langerhans’s career OBP is .347 and he should be in the midst of his best years in the next few years, so that OBP should be at least that in ‘07.

Matt Diaz has a career OBP of .348. He is also in his peak years, so it should be around that in ‘07.

They aren’t great, but both are cheap and both can do the job very adequately. They don’t have a lot of speed, but again the Braves ranked 2nd in the NL in runs and finished LAST in steals. Speed is nice but overrated by many on this blog.

The Braves also finished 8th in caught stealing with 35 times caught. That’s 35 baserunners that were wasted on steal attempts. If 16 of those runners (less than half) score instead of get thrown out trying to steal, the Braves lead the league in runs scored.

By bravesfan16

December 4, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

I really don’t think the Braves wanted him as bad as they wanted the scenario of what it took to get him. I think they liked the thought of trading Hudson now and replacing him short term with Glavine and prospects. Huddy has another year like last year and he’ll be deemed worthless.

By rammerjammer

December 4, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

After reading comments from JS and Glavine, it’s very clear that this was payback for Tommy.

When you read him saying things about “respect” and “feeling you’re appreciated and wanted somewhere,” that’s CLEARLY a public dig at JS. I think privately he enjoyed watching JS twist in the wind.

Two very competitive, very self-confident individuals. It figures it would end this way.

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 4, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

KC - it sounds like schuerholz himself said that they were ready to trade hudson to bring glavine back

By BravesFaninRockies

December 4, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

The CS statistic was one real killer for this team in ‘06. A few weeks back I posted the base stealing stats for the Braves through the Cox years, and while his teams have tried to run when they’ve had speed (Nixon, Grissom, Lofton, Furcal), even when they haven’t run much, they’ve typically been successful 2/3 of the time or more.

You’d like any team to have at a least 70-75 percent success rate … otherwise why give up the outs? But this season, lack of sound baserunning (52 SB/35 CS) was an anchor on an otherwise decent offense.

I’d be delighted if the tandem of Diaz and Langerhans could do the job in the leadoff spot. Not sure they can. And again, for whatever reason, Renteria has never liked hitting there. Statistical analysis may say it doesn’t matter who’s at the top of the order, but if your players aren’t comfortable where they’re positioned in the lineup, they’re not happy. And you want them to be happy, especially when they perform better in other slots in the order.

By 22oz

December 4, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

Lets just hope Glavine doesn’t get his 300th against the Braves, even though fate says it will. I’m not sure which would be worse: getting 300 against the Braves in Atl or NY. Either way, it makes me cringe.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

Shaun, you wrote: “Renteria or whoever is in LF could leadoff.”

Yes, Renteria could lead off. But why on earth would you take a guy who’s an absolutely perfect No. 2 hitter, with the best “bat control” on the team, a guy able to hit it through the right side of the infield as if it were an innate skill, able to advance runners almost at will, and have him hit leadoff? Then who bats second?

And how can you say “whoever plays LF can bat leadoff?” Did you see Langerhans’ numbers last year (not that I think he’ll be in LF, but he could be).

And some of those at-bats Diaz had, where he struck out looking horrendous, you want him batting leadoff? I like Diaz, he had a real good year, but he’s not a leadoff guy by any stretch of the imagination.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

BravesFaninRockies,

I agree. You should put your players where they are comfortable if it doesn’t seem to make a significant statistical difference. I think you should also preach to your players to take the same approach no matter where they hit—avoid outs whether that means hitting the ball hard, walking, getting hit, or bunting for a hit.

I do think Diaz and Langerhans are adequate leadoff options simply because they are basically just as good as almost anyone on the team at avoiding outs.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 4, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

Check out all the comments. Good ones too. Anything BIG gonna get done this week or is it just the groud work. A renteria-esque trade would get the blog hopping faster than it already is.

By KC

December 4, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

Daybed:

Again, if that were true, he’d already be gone. The Braves wanted a decent return for Hudson plus the payroll space to sign Glavine. That’s why it didn’t happen in time to sign TG.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

DOB-You never answered my question about Escobar (it was late last night, after all). Did his winning the Arizona Fall League batting title guarantee him a shot at second this spring?

By LanceinFL

December 4, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

DOB - Band of the day Local H

Are there any real leadoff guys available through trade? What about this Hudson for Sexson b.s. thats going around, any truth to that?

By KC

December 4, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Okay, we didn’t get Tom Glavine. That’s the bad news. Now for the good news…

Even without adding Glavine, the Braves will still field a starting rotation in 07’ with the potential to be the best in baseball. No, that’s not an overstatement. I’m certainly not predicting that this rotation will be the best around, but I do want to point out that if the chips land in the right places, this rotation could be very special. Yes, that’s a best case scenario, but I would certainly wager that this rotation will be “good” at the very least.

John Smoltz: Still a bonafide ace, and should the Braves make their return to the post-season stage, as I think they will, Smoltzy is the most prolific post-season starter in baseball history.

Tim Hudson: I’ll save my comments on Huddy for a separate post, since Tim Hudson is an issue unto itself. Sufficed to say, the odds are certainly in favor of a much better season for him in 07’ and gain, there’ no reason to believe the Braves have lost confidence in him.

Mike Hampton:

• As a Brave (until he went on DL last year): 31-18, 3.74 ERA.

• Since all-star break in 03’: 26-13, 3.44 ERA

• Since all-star break in 04’ 13-2, 2.54 ERA

(The above stats are counted up to the point at which he went on the DL last year, ultimately requiring Tommy John surgery.)

Is Mike Hampton injury prone? Last season (2005) was the first season in 9 years in which Hampton failed to make at least 29 starts.

Horacio Ramirez: Yes, He is injury prone. However, statements made by some here like “You can count on him spending half the season on the DL” give me pause. Remember, he made 34 starts just last year, so it’s not far fetched to think he can stay healthy enough to contribute. If he does go down, Chuck James is more than capable of filling the number-4-guy role, and Davies or Cormier can be used to fill in as the 5th starter for a while… not the end of the world.

As for his ability… In his 12 healthy starts (between DL stints), he looked very good, despite some inconsistency. 9 of his 12 starts were outstanding (5-1 with a 1.69 ERA in those 9). Overall, in his 12 healthy starts, he posted a 3.89 ERA… on par with the likes of Glavine and Zito, isn’t it? Bottom line, if the Braves were willing to trade Hudson instead of Ramirez, that could certainly be construed as another vote of confidence in the lefty on the part of the Braves, who have always shown a lot of faith in him. If he can stay healthy, he’s got a chance to be one of the better lefties in the league this season. Believe it.

Chuck James: What can you say? A great looking young lefty who has got a chance to make a very nice career for himself. I look forward to seeing him pitch a full season in the ATL rotation.

Take heart! Glavine may be staying in NY, but the Braves’ rotation still looks a lot more promising than theirs from where I’m standing.

By beachcomber

December 4, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

DOB - Just catching up with your Saturday post. Thank you for putting into words what so many of us are thinking about the Glavine debacle. Also loved the mention of a dog and an ex - it’s like having the revered Lewis Grizzard back.

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 4, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

AJ and ncscoots Thank you, thank you, thank you. Furcal was absolutely maddening to me as a lead-off hitter from the standpoint that the man had absolutely no plate discipline. Speed is a marvelous thing unless you’re showcasing it by running to the dugout after a pop to second…

Matthew Agreed on Glavine completely. I’m totally old school here. Once someone leaves, they get a nice warm round of applause when they return in another team’s uniform and then that’s pretty much it. Out of sight, out of mind. I won’t boo them, wish ill harm or anything else, however they are in enemy colors after the obligatory round of applause (yet another great reason to not have the DH rule because the first at bat is a great time to do that). Only made one exception on that rule ever (Dale Murphy).

CL Wonderful idea! My moniker has been changed accordingly.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Have you looked at Diaz and Langerhans OBP? They are as good as anyone at avoiding outs/getting on.

I’m assuming you are thinking a leadoff hitter must have speed. But it is not a necessity. I would rather have good out-avoiders/on-base guys than a speed/no-hit guy like Pete Orr.

Speed is nice anywhere in the order, but is it more important than avoiding outs?

Who’s Renteria going to advance if no one is on-base? Better to have baserunners to advance than someone to advance them.

Yes, Diaz and Langerhans would be adequate in the leadoff role. Each could post an OBP around .350. That’s about their career OBP, both are in their peak years so you’d expect them to get on base/avoid outs at about that clip in 2007.

By Matthew

December 4, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

Not seeing any official word on signing Willie Harris, as someone posted earlier. Any word?

By Lew

December 4, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

KC-Dude-Horacio did NOT pitch 34 games last year, he pitched in 14. He has NEVER pitched in 34 games for the Braves. In 05 he pitched in 33 and 10 in 04. There is absolutley no way you can spin his injuries. He’s had a ton of them. He even missed time in the minors with surgery. Now I suppose you could say he’s injured a year and then comes back the next before being injured again the next. He’s at best, an every other year pitcher. This may be the year, but he’s still from from a lock on a healthy season.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Try this scenario. JS never wanted to sign Glavine, hence no offer. He never comments on potential deals, yet said he was trying to move Hudson. Could this just be a motivational maneuver to get Hudson’s attention? Like telling him “We aren’t thrilled with the job you’ve done sinceyou’ve been her. Get it together or you’re gone for real”.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Who lead off for the Braves in ‘06? And where did they finish in runs scored? And how many steals did they have and where did they rank? Having a prototypical leadoff guy is highly overrated by a lot of people. Speed is highly overrated by a lot of people.

Of the 7 NL teams that stole over 100 bases only 2 ranked in the top 7 in runs scored. Of the 6 AL teams, only 1 finished in the top 7 in runs scored.

By Jared

December 4, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, what is your take on the Richie Sexson to the Braves rumors going around? If that happens, it’s probably safe to say Schuerholz is going to take some team to the bank with LaRoche.

By SR

December 4, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

This is almost to painful and surreal to endure. DOB, Lame is putting it mildly.

JS- Yes Johnny, I know you want an X-Box but it has been a very bad year so you will have to settle for a used Etch-A-Sketch.

Same thing, every freakin off-season. They don’t even have the requisite professionalism to deal appropriately with a hall of fame WHO PITCHED HIS GUTS OUT FOR THIS TEAM FOR WHAT, 15 YEARS!&$(()*&)

Then they sign yet another scrap heap loser with an ERA over 5. Welcome to the club,now meet Sidney, Clayton, Mohommed & Jugdish. Still no leadoff hitter. Still no bullpen worth a flip. Team has become a joke.

Bye

By Lew

December 4, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

There have been several mentions of Willie Harris and whether or not the Braves had signed him. My question is this-Who cares? The guy has a career BA of .238 in 6 seasons. He has played more than 79 games once-129. Last season he played 47 games and batted .156. He has 5 career HR’s. His career OBP is .306. He has stolen 55 career bases and been thrown out 15 times. I certainly hope we’re not so desperate that fans would consider this an option in any way, shape or form.

By A.J.

December 4, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

First off - Shaun,

I love Diaz, but a lot of that .348 came from the fact that he hit .327 last year. In fact, in the limited experience he had before last year his OBP never even reached .327. I do believe that last year proved that he’s better than the .281 BA and .323 OBP that he posted in 34 games in ‘05. But for a guy who strikes out so much and walks so little, I would hope, but not plan on him hitting so well again next year. Drop him even just to .300 BA (which would be great if he can do that consistantly) and he’s a .330 OBP guy at best.

In other news, in Buster Olney’s notebook on his blog he posted a link to a Seattle Post-Intelligencer article (an amazing name for a paper) that suggested, though maybe just by ambiguous writing, the Mariners could possibly get Hudson from us for one Mr. Richmond Lockwood Sexson. LUDICROUS!! I like how we would trade Hudson to get a 14 million dollar first baseman who ISN’T ANY BETTER THAN LAROCHE, plus he doesn’t play first as well, all this when LaRoche is finally showing signs of breaking out. Sexson last year: .264 BA (.269 career), 34 HR and 154 Ks LaRoche: .285 BA, 32 HR, 128 Ks.

That’s just wishful thinking on Seattle’s part, they can’t except that Sexson is nothing more than a high-priced, lower output Adam Dunn.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Jared-Richie Sexson made $13 million last year (about what Andruw made). In arbitration this year, LaRoche is due a raise to about $2.5 million. Does this answer your question?

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Willie Harris and Pete Orr are basically the same player.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

I see the Sexson rumor. Hard to see that happening. LaRoche is a much cheaper option. The rumor does involve Hudson, but it’s just replacing one big contract with another. Why?

By Rosalynn

December 4, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

This has been a bad day for Jimma. Jimma’s Aunt Sissa has passed. On top of that, that boy Dick Yarbrough wrote an article in the newspapa that was unkind to Jimma. Does Dick Yarbrough have his own submarine? His own Peace Prize? His own Front Row seats at Turna Field? Jimma is beside himself with grief and with anga. Sometimes, when he’s like that he will hold his breath for a long time. Awhile ago I heard a Secret Service agent tell Jimma if he insisted on holding his breath any longa the Secret Service man was going to have to wrestle Jimma to the ground and put a spoon in his mouth. Jimma just held his breath and motioned for that boy to come on and try puttin’ a spoon in Jimma’s mouth. (Jimma has a mouth just full of raza sharp teeth and I think he was plannin’ to bite that boy.) Well, fortunately the forma leada of the free world relented when that Secret Service boy couldn’t t find a small spoon in the drawa and approached Jimma with a ladle from the punch bowl. Jimma took a big ol’ breath and said, “no need for violence heah.” That may be the reason Jimma is winner of the Peace Prize. Aunt Sissa’s passing has got Jimma to thinkin’ about Jimma’s own funeral. Jimma is a man of the people and and he has been thinking that he will walk in his funeral procession much like he did in the inaugural procession. Humility is so becoming on Jimma! Now, Jimma has to deal with all this criticism and that lady that called him on the television show yestaday and called him bad names - imagine! Surely, Jimma is gonna send the Secret Service to her house for a little wrestlin’. I read in the papah that that boy Chris Reitsma is feeling so much betta and is preparin’ for next season. Jimma took a likin’ to Chris Reitsma last season and has been in constant touch with that boy evah since his fingahs went numb (Chris’ fingahs, not Jimma’s). Jimma told Chris if Chris will just shell peanuts all day long the strength will come back to his fingahs. That boy has been on our back porch for days just a shellin’ away. He throws the peanuts in a tub and calls Jimma when the tub is full. Unfortunately, that boy misses the tub about as much as he hits it! Jimma has to get down on his hands and his knees to pick up the errant peanuts. Of course, if Jimma gets down like that, so do the Secret Service boys. It is quite a sight to see that Canadian boy throwing those peanuts on the ground like that and the forma leada of the free world and all his security men scrambling around to pick up the peanuts. Who picked up the errant baseballs when Chris was pitching last yeah? If you said, “people in the outfield stands” you are correct. Well, this is my longest blog in awhile. Jimma does not like me bloggin’ on heah with that Jackassss boy but I always remind Jimma that the Jackassss is the symbol of ouah party. Jimma just says that boy ain’t right and he needs some lovin’. I may try to fix him up. It will require everything I know how to do. If I am successful I will let you know moah soon. Go Braves!

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 4, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the heads up Carolina Lady. I will keep that in mind, but in true hillbilly form, I find it rather dificult to spell out Appal…. whatever you said. So like all hillbilly’s, I’ll stay behind the times and stick with the current Handle until the horse-bound messenger makes it to my place with a hand-written letter informing me and Paw and Arliss and Granny about the change. Again thanks for the info CL :))

By rammerjammer

December 4, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

Diaz had a .389 OBP leading off last season (though only one BB); Langerhan’s’ was only .315, with 20 Ks in 67 ABs!

Granted, a leadoff batter might only leadoff once a game. But those stats do provide some evidence of who would best perform in that role.

Neither, of course, touches Aybar.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

There was another article in Chop Talk magazine about McCann’s Daddy and his hitting school. Apparently Kelly Johnson and Pete Orr are now students of Daddy McCann. This could get interesting.

By AdamJK

December 4, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Absolutely no chance the Braves would want Sexton. LaRoche is much, much cheaper, and is frankly a better all around player. I am a little surprised that the Braves aren’t in on Jennings from the Rockies - a very good pitcher with the potential to be great, and still very affordable. DOB - any thoughts on that?

By jason

December 4, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

I really wish the braves could trade AJ. Look at what Boston is expecting for Manny, and AJ is far cheaper this year, younger, and is a ton better defensive player. We could probably get Matt Kemp and Andy LaRoche in the deal. Maybe Broxton as well.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

Miz Carter-Nice to hear from y’all again. Hope the President is well.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this

A.J.,

Maybe Diaz is only a .330 OBP guy. But his walks could increase as most players’ do as they age.

Even at .330, that wouldn’t be awful for a leadoff guy. Better than giving up a great player or a lot of money for a leadoff hitter.

Another thing to remember—there’s a good chance a leadoff guy is only going to leadoff an inning once.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

One problem—sample size. I don’t think we can tell a whole lot about Diaz and Langerhans leadoff abilities by looking at the few at bats they had in that spot. I think it’s much more telling to look at their career stats, particularly OBP.

By NCBravesFan

December 4, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Since we were not able to land Glavine (or more accurately, since Glavine did not appear to be very serious about coming home in the first place) … I have to believe that JS is going to have a really hard time making a lot of big moves this winter. Every GM in baseball knows that the Braves are hamstrung by a frozen payroll, even as salaries explode through the roof. As a result, everyone knows that JS is not going to be able to utilize the free agent market in a big way to upgrade the team, and it will make opposing GMs bargain really hard on whatever trade possibilities the Braves discuss. I hope JS is able to do some good things this year, but the cards do not appear to be stacked in the Braves’ favor. At the end of the day, I think we’ll end up strengthening our weaknesses only by weakening our strengths.

By KC

December 4, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

LEW: Sorry… it was 33 starts, not 34. Sue me.

And it’s still 2006, which would make “last year” 2005, would it not?

By KC

December 4, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Shaun & Rammerjammer:

Diaz would be a very atypical choice for the leadoff spot considering he (quietly) compiled the lowest walk/at-bat ratio on this team. Most people believe that distinction belongs to Francoeur. Not so. MAtt Diaz actually walks less often than Frenchy. Hard to believe, but true.

By Matthew, Mississippi River Delta-American

December 4, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

CL:

I;m WAY too far from the Appalachians for that moniker, so I came up with my own. Whaddaya think?

Lew:

Didn’t mean to give the impression that I was excited about the possible Harris signing. I just thought it interesting that the Braves had made ANY move. Besides, what else is there to do but discuss this unimportant stuff ad nauseum? We’re Braves fans, and its the offseason!

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 4, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

NCBravesFan…

I think you’re right. JS is really having to deal from a weak position and all the other GMs know that. I think that’s why he’s had some challenges in moving payroll last week. That’s why I’m anxious to get this deal between TW and Liberty done. We’ll have a lot better idea of how payroll will shake out long term soon after the ink is dry.

By ncscoots

December 4, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

NCBravesFan, you say true re opposing GMs playing hardball with the Braves, but that sword cuts with both edges. GM chicken has been played a long time, and somebody ALWAYS blinks. No opposing GM is going to let a potential team-improving trade with the Braves go away, if indeed a Braves player is what his team needs to improve, especially with the market as it now stands. The ability to leave a trade on the table, and instead pursue a free agent, has been severely curtailed, and that’s as true of potential trade partners as it is for the Braves.

By eware

December 4, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

DOB, will you please get a statement from Scherholtz saying something like…”There’s no way we’re trading LaRoche.” I’m sick of hearing all the bogus trade rumors and trade proposals. He’s a dynamic player and was by far our BEST clutch hitter last season.

By michael

December 4, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand what all the fuss is about. So Glavine stayed with the Mets. Big deal. It would’ve been nice to see him back, but if you’re talking about loyalty…he actually did the right thing. The Mets banked on him with more money and more years when the Braves wouldn’t. (JJS was right about this point on loyalty.) Secondly, why the fuss over who’s batting leadoff? It’s all about the ‘pen. If they weren’t blowing leads, they were letting the other team run away with it. Fix that and the Braves are right back in October. (by the way, why does Furcal get all this praise as a leadoff guy?…maybe I’m wrong, but he didn’t seem that great. Sure he had tons of potential, but he wasn’t great.)

By Rodger

December 4, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Biggest problem with Diaz batting lead-off is he has to play left field. Lets add the outs given away there to the outs given away at the plate (you know, our old friend OBP) and Kelly Johnson looks better!

By Dennis

December 4, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

First of all Glavine was not the answer to the Braves pitching upgrade. He would have been a nice addition but not a critical factor. We need young hard throwers/pitchers who will not be at the mercy of umpires during the playoffs. Most of the successful teams who won World Series had several hard throwers.

2001-Johnson/Schilling 2002-KRod 2003-J Beckett/Willis 2004-Schilling/Pedro 2005-Bobby Jenks 2006- Carpenter/J Weaver

We need to lower the age of the starting pitching of the Braves. I would make a trade to the O’s for Penn/R Lopez for Tim Hudson.

A would also explore A LaRoche for one of the young Pirate pitchers.

I would keep K Davies and trade Horam.

Our pitching would be

Smoltz Penn Hampton James Maholm

Davies could step in anytime. He needs more innings. R Lopez could pitch out of the bullpen as well.

I would trade Horam and Giles for Linebrink. I would look at picking up J Guthrie and Indians 1st rounder who may not be tendered. The Indians and Braves have been good trading partners over the years. The Indians have alot of young arms. LaRoche may go there as well for a starter like C Lee or Westbrook.

Just some random thoughts while waitng for the trade news!

By Greg

December 4, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

Why on Earth would we trade Hudson for Sexson. He makes almost as much and we already have an OK first baseman and poor starting pitching. That the dumbest idea I’ve heard yet.

By JasonInMaine

December 4, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

From ESPN Insider:

Let’s make a deal? Dec 4 - Trading first baseman Richie Sexson may be an option for the Mariners, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer reports. Raul Ibanez, the current left fielder, could be moved to first base as part of the shakeup if Sexson is dealt to lure an upgrade in the Seattle starting rotation. Some possibility trade partners include the Giants or Braves. San Francisco might be willing to part with lefty Noah Lowry in the right deal, and Atlanta would have no trouble dealing Tim Hudson.

A long shot is acquiring Dontrelle Willis from the Marlins. For that kind of a trade, Florida would almost certainly want the Mariners to pick up a hefty part of the $14 million coming to Sexson in 2007.

Where do these people get these ideas? Why would the Braves want someone who isn’t an upgrade over their current 1b and gets paid about 13 times as much? Unless they had another move up their sleeve and the Mariners were going to pay a large portion of Sexson’s contract? I expected the typical Andruw rumors and what not, but this one is from left field.

Regards,

Jason

By rammerjammer (Lower Alabama Welsh-German American)

December 4, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

That was fun.

Now back to baseball. You know, Sexson played the outfield (and first base) for Cleveland in 1999 and 2000. Now I know we have Diaz and Langerhans out there, but…

Of course, the trade would create a problem with the rotation, unless JS has had an epiphany and decided, by gum, Horatio Ramirez WILL be a starting pitcher next season.

It’s a curious rumor. Can’t help wondering if the Seattle reporter invented it or if preliminary talks are ongoing.

By Matthew, Mississippi River Delta-American

December 4, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

What about Steve Kline as a left specialist? He was not offered arbitration by the Giants-maybe sign him to a minor league deal, or a low guaranteed deal with incentives?

By KC

December 4, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

SI.com: “The Braves would have no trouble trading Tim Hudson. The right-hander was a stud in Oakland, but he’s been nothing but mediocre in Atlanta. The Braves would need little inducement to move him, but it’s buyer beware.”

ASININE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don’t have John Shuerholz’s phone number, but I still feel confident in saying that Braves are in no hurry to trade Tim Hudson. When the Braves had an opportunity (or appeared to anyway) to land Tom Glavine, shopping Hudson made some sense. But unless there’s a top-tier starter somewhere on the trade-wire… don’t expect to Hudson’s name linked to any more credible trade rumors this winter.

Let’s set the record straight. First of all, and I’ve been saying this until I’m blue in the face, but I wish everyone would stop lumping Hudson’s 2005 season, or even his 04’ season together with this year’s lackluster effort. Hudson was hampered by nagging side-muscle injury through most of the 04’ and 05’ seasons, and still managed to post an ERA of about 3.50 in close to 30 starts, each of those two seasons. That ERA placed him in the top 15% of all MLB starters both years. In 2006, that ERA would have placed him in the top 7%. This year… he had a terrible season. No one can, or should try, to deny that. But, while the 04’ and 05’ seasons weren’t the CY Young caliber effort of seasons past… he was still very good. With even so much as an average bullpen behind him, Hudson would have won 18 games or more in 2005.

Let’s face the reality here that we’re talking about one bad season (2006) vs. 7 years of excellence. He’s still young, all his stuff’s still there, and he’s appears determined to restore his “ace” status. Also, I looked at the career stats of most everyone to finish in the top 10 in ERA in a the past 25 seasons and found that historically, when top-caliber pitchers struggle as Hudson did this year (still fairly young and not due to injury, but really just “out of sync”) they bounce right back the following season. There are numerous instances of this in the careers of guys like Roger Clemens, John Smoltz, Mike Mussina (in his more dominant Baltimore days), and others. Perhaps Hudson’s struggles in 06’ will carry right over into next season. That very well could happen… but it’s not likely.

If moving Hudson would have brought a bullpen fix or a top-level prospect in addition to clearing room for Glavine, the Braves would have done it. But that opportunity (assuming it ever was truly legitimate) has come and gone. Any trade rumors involving Hudson at this point are most likely fabricated nonsense.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

KC,

But I’m sure Francouer struck out a lot more.

And by my calculations, there’s only a difference of about 1 1/2.

By NCBravesFan

December 4, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Michael -

I agree that Glavine was not a huge deal in terms of long-term ability to help the franchise. I think his biggest assets were that he was affordable in an insane market - and his defection from the Mets would leave them with huge holes in the pitching staff. On the Braves, he would be a #3 starter - on the Mets, he is their ace at the moment.

By rammerjammer

December 4, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Sexson, in 109 career games in leftfield, has zero errors and six assists.

By berigan

December 4, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

Richard Cory, put me down as saying the Braves will finish 3rd, behind the Mets and Marlins, sadly enough. Starting pitching is too fragile. Smoltz has by far the best stuff, and he is 40. What if Bobby gets desparate and has Smoltz talk him into a start on 3 days rest in May, cuz the Mets have started off fast??? Hudson. Does he seem like the guy to have on the mound in a must win game? His stuff just doesn’t impress. He obiviously was good in Oakland, but something has happened. If JS isn’t smart and trade him for anything half decent, and he has another poor year, guess what? No way in the world will we be able to trade him when he is being payed 13 Million a year. And you know, we didn’t give up anything good to get him, so why not get a leadoff hitter, or a starting prospect for him? HoRam. I like him. He has a strong competive fire. But, as everyone and his brother knows, he is injured more often than Fred Lynn. (look him up kids) Chuck James. Hopefully, no sophmore jinx for him. He is likely our 2nd best starter. Mike Hampton? Another great competitor. But, he has missed 1 1/2 years. Yeah, most come back from Tommy John surgery. But, how many innings can we expect him to pitch after such a long layoff? Can he even pitch 180 innings?IF we got to the playoffs, will he be able to make several quality starts? And the bullpen. If Wicky got hurt(he ain’t a spring chicken is he?) We can round up the usual suspects, but they already proved they couldn’t pitch the 9th. We don’t have 2 fireballers behind the soft tosser, like the Tigers have. Oh, and no leadoff hitter. Just doesn’t look like a team that can win the division, or the WC, at least as configured.

By KC

December 4, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Lew: One more thing… I never tried to spin his injuries. I’ve said all along that he does appear to be injury prone. All I’m saying is that he’s not in the Kerry Wood camp when it comes to punching the “frequent camper card” on the disabled list. It was just last year (2005) when HoRam made over 30 starts… so my point is that it’s not unreasonable to think that he can help this team.

And again, if he goes on the shelf again… all we need is someone to fill in as a 5th starter. We happen to have a couple such someones in the persons of Kyle Davies and Lance Cormier (3.19 as a Braves starter in Sept.)

Once again, HoRam does appear to be injury prone, but it hasn’t gotten to a point yet (as it has with guys like Wood Prior, or maybe even John Thompson) where the Braves are afraid to even pencil him into the rotation. And given that he’ll be pitching at the bottom of this rotation, the risk of his landing on the DL just doesn’t scare me that much.

By NYM

December 4, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

NYM, you obviously have been traumatizied by past conversations with Mets fans. Your last post to me went on and on about stuff I wasn’t apart of. My only point was that last year brave fans didn’t think much of the Mets pitching and it turned out pretty good. By what I’m reading it seems to be repeating itself. I never said that the Mets were a lock to sign any pitcher they wanted. I don’t know if I gave that impression. And as for going away. I’ll let you know when I’m ready.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

Sexson was younger when he played in the outfield. And errors and assists don’t tell the whole story. How many balls did he get to compared to other LF? Did he not make errors because he didn’t reach many balls that most LF would have?

I think Sexson could probably play LF, but I don’t know if it’s worth putting him out there everyday.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 4, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

Blog still talking about Hudson and Glavine…Need some new stuff to chew on DOB. Hey, anyone has proof B. Bonds used steroids…hahahaha.

By KC

December 4, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

Matthew, Mississippi:

On paper, I agree that Steve Kline seems like a perfect fit for Atlanta. DOB and others have raised some concerns about his character, and the Braves are one of those teams where that sort of thing matters. He may or may not be “Braves material” in that sense. Personally, I can’t comment. Don’t know anything about the guy off the field.

As for the Braves being able to sign him… Kline is coming off a solid year in SF in which he made 72 appearances. He’s been one of the better lefty relievers in the league for a number of years. So I’m quite certain a minor-league deal is well outside the realm of possibility. In this market, he’ll almost surely sign a multi-year deal worth at least 3-5 million a season. Even on the low end of that range, he might be too pricey for Atlanta.

By AZBravoFan

December 4, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

I agree with you on Hudson KC. I’m not quite ready to give up on him yet. The guy is healthy as far as we know. And he’s a pro. He and Roger will figure out what adjustments he needs to make. Just like Glavine finally realized he needed to make some changes when his numbers were languishing, I think Huddy will to. And while he may not be in a contract year, he does have the motivation of knowing that if he continues to stink, he’s going to get shipped away, away from the home he wanted to be closer to. That’s what I’m going to keep telling myself this winter as JS continues to stock us with the Tanyan Sturtzes of the world.

By KC

December 4, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Shaun: Without a doubt, Frenchy struck out more. It’s just that when a guy hits .327 (or whatever Diaz hit… it was something in that neighborhood), you expect to see a fairly impressive OBP. Diaz’s OBP isn’t bad, but it’s not great either, particularly for a leadoff hitter.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Diaz. I was confused when BC kept penciling Langerhanz into the lineup late in the season. I thought surely this guy had earned a shot to play every day, but what do I know? While I want a leadoff hitter with some speed, I’m conflicted about pulling Diaz from the lineup. Again, I think he’s earned the right to show what he can do on an everyday basis.

All in all, I won’t feel bad about this lineup at all if we head to opening day with Giles or Aybar, or maybe even Prado, Escobar, or K. Johnson leading off… and Diaz in LF. I think this lineup will still score plenty of runs, even if we don’t pick up a “true” leadoff man.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

I’m with DOB on this Diangerhans leadoff proposal. Langerhans or Diaz are not the answer to leadoff. Pointing to the OBP as a validation is fools gold. It isn’t guaranteed either of those two guys can keep their OBP that high at this level of everyday play in the leadoff hole. There is a mental level to that spot in the order that some can’t adjust to as well as others. I point to Giles. In the not leadoff spot, he hits for average and power with a good OBP. In the lead off spot, he misses all three of those.

I think when people say they want a “proven leadoff man” they mean a guy who has proven he can handle hitting in that spot over the course of a whole season. Not necessarily a guy who steals bases. Speed is good at the top of the order though and if he can handle the spot and steal bases, kudos to him. But the mental ability to handle that spot is very key. Handing it over to one of two guys who have yet to play a full seasons worth of games batting higher than 6th is like heading into the season with Reitsma and Kolb as your solution to the late innings. It’s not wise. And there is no reason what-so-ever that the Braves shouldn’t see what other possibilities are available before commiting to the last resort.

Aparently Giles is on the block and maybe Hudson. Those two combined could fetch quite a bit in return. Giles himself could fetch a nice return as well. And with JS making the deals, more than likely the Braves will get a nice return. We shall see. Winter meetings are on us. The deals should be coming this week. I look forward to seeing what happens.

GO BRAVES

By the way, saw 007 this weekend. That was an amazing flick. One of the top 5 Bonds movies ever. I loved Sean and nothing could top him, but this new guy is pretty dern close.

By KC

December 4, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

berigan:

By all (credible) accounts, Hudson’s stuff is that same now as it was in Oakland. Don Sutton said that late last year, as did other knowledgeable baseball people around the situation.

His problem this year was that, 1-he was getting the ball up too often… way too often for a sinkerballer, and 2-his stuff was so “live” (moving around) that his was having a hard time finding the corners. He’d start it there, but it would drift outside or worse, over the plate.

I know this may sounds like a gross oversimplification, but his problem in 06’ was that he was simply out of sync. While it may be a simple problem, that certainly didn’t make it a small problem, nor was it easy to fix (obviously, or he would have fixed it back in July). It was a mechanical issue, that probably started to mess with his head at a certain point, just as good hitters can experience. There have been some awfully good hitters over the years that have a bad season after which they say “I just didn’t feel consistently comfortable at the plate”.

Sometimes the best cure for this type of thing is a few months away, and a fresh start in the spring. Here’s hoping.

By berigan

December 4, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

Only thing that would make sense in a Sexton trade, would be if Andruw and LaRoche were traded to Boston and we got oddles and gobs of pitching from Boston, which I don’t think they have, since Lester is ill. Perhaps just LaRoche to Boston, but we can’t pay Sexton and Andruw….unless Seattle would pay part of Sexton’s salary, which doesn’t seem likely. If we could spin off Andruw to the Angels, they have tons of pitching, could solve a lot of problems…man, I made my own head spin!

By David

December 4, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

DOB, try your best to ignore Shaun and his out of touch comments. Diaz,Langerhans for leadoff—Truly assinine.

By ernesto

December 4, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

That Richie Sexson rumor is about the dumbest thing I think I”ve ever heard…makes no sense on any level.

By $80 million payroll

December 4, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

You’ll get nothing and like it.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 4, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

“Oldest boy, bless his soul is preparing for his career”

“College????”

“Nah, Carnival. Last season he was a pixie dust spreader on the Tilt-a-Whirl. This year he hopes to be guessin’ people’s weights or barkin’ for the Yak Woman. D’ya ever see her, Clark? She’s got these horns comin’ outta her head. It’s a helluva sight. She’s ugly as sin, but a sweet gal, and a helluva good cook.”

OMG, I never get tired of that movie…..

By ernesto

December 4, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

All you guys who put together the stats to show how great Huddy’s been are just missing one thing…he ain’t been that great. Top 7 this, top blah-blah that…bottom line - he’s been hittable, beatable and mediocre. You don’t need a stat sheet to prove it either, you just had to watch the games.

I’m not saying he won’t rebound or turn it around, but to say that he’s been anything other than a disappointment so far, well, I think you have a tough sales job ahead of you.

By KC

December 4, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

AZBravoFan:

Yeah, I think it definitely is too early to sell all your Tim Hudson stock. As I’ve pointed out so many times, we are talking about an isolated incident in the context of his, until this year, stellar career. 04 and 05 were disappointments only because many were looking for him to compete for a CY Young every year. To post an ERA of 3.50 while hampered by injuries is relatively impressive. And injuries or no, a 3.50 ERA will make you one of the best starters in baseball every year in this age of artificially inflated physiques and little-league sized, hyper-hitter-friendly ballparks.

Anyway, what kind of season with Huddy have next year? Who knows… but I am convinced that haven’t yet reached a point where it’s smart to bet against Hudson. I don’t think we’re anywhere near that point right now, but we should all know one way or the other in about 9 or 10 months.

And I wouldn’t worry about the bullpen either. Tanyan Sturtzes isn’t the biggest name JS will be adding the pen this winter. Look for at least one proven late-inning reliever to arrive via trade sometime in the next couple of months.

By KC

December 4, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

TennPaul:

Don’t believe the hype. Hudson isn’t on the block unless he’s part of a deal for a top-tier starter that’s not coming off a career-worst season. But since there doesn’t appear to a front-line starter on the trade market, I think it’s safe to assume that Huddy will be here at least one more season.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

I know the winter can be hard without ball games and all. And I know it’s tough when your team gets knocked out of the post season. But why is NYM talking to himself on a Braves blogg?

By rammerjammer

December 4, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Not saying Sexson is the next Andruw Jones. But he’s not the next Matt Diaz either. Not even close. And, yes, I’d put him in leftfield every day.

I’d also put Aybar at second (and leadoff) and give the ball to HoRam every fifth day.

By Glass Half Full

December 4, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

Sexson last played the outfield in 2000. I feel pretty confident, though that this deal isn’t been considered by the Braves. Sorry with the Jacque Jones talk, but he’s actually an outfielder and is making around $5 million a season for 2007 and 2008. The Cubs want to move him also.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer and everybody else,

What evidence do you have that Diaz is a bad fielder? I know he’s no gold glover, but is he really that bad? And please don’t give me one play where he looked bad.

By rammerjammer

December 4, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

From MLB.COM’s Winter Meetings Whispers:

“The Pirates are interested in Atlanta’s Adam LaRoche, but the Braves haven’t given any indications they would be willing to part with the first baseman.”

Interesting that talk should surface again, on the very day of reports about Richie Sexson for Tim Hudson.

By Glass Half Full

December 4, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer,

The only problem with giving HoRam the ball every 5th day is that he’s likely to be on the DL every other time his turn in the rotation comes up. Trade him while and if you can!

By Glass Half Full

December 4, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

donde esta DOB?

By berigan

December 4, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

KC, I see where you are coming from, but….The potential you see in Hudson, well, other teams have as of now. Only one really bad season. But, if we keep him this year, and he doesn’t bounce back, he’s ours till the end of ‘09. If we were the Yankees, or Red Sox, you can risk 13 mil for 2 seasons. We can’t. We need to get out from his contract. We need payroll flexiblity so we can be buyers if some team collapses and doesn’t want to hold on to a potential free agent starter. I’d also say that if the Braves were willing to trade a guy 10 years younger than Glavine away, they don’t have confidence in him anymore.

By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)

December 4, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Question:

If Tim Hudson “fell over” in the woods and hurt his oblique, and was UNABLE to pitch effectively, but NOBODY was around…….Would KC hear him scream in pain?

By Jim

December 4, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Richie Sexson would challenge Francouer and Andruw for the team (and maybe the league) strikeout lead. We don’t need another bat in the lineup that will be neutralized by good pitching if and when we get to the playoffs. I would prefer a combination of Matt Diaz/Kelly Johnson in LF to a player like Sexson (or Burrell) even if the financial constraints weren’t a consideration. More importantly, if we are going to trade Hudson, we need to get pitching back.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 4, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6237440

M. Gonzalez? Yeah just what we need, another closer from another bad team. No way is that guy worth LaRoach.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

Several things-NYM-Just get over yourself. I answered your meaningless question. I really have no interest in the Mets, anyway. KC-I won’t sue you, but Horacio is just not someone who can be counted on. It’s really wonderful that in 9 of 12 starts (or whatever) that he was good. He still stunk in the others and he is hurt constantly. Sorry, that’s the way it is. Maybe he’ll be good. Maybe he won’t. Maybe he’ll be consistent, maybe he won’t. Maybe he’ll be healthy, but the odds say he won’t. If we get rid of him it will be strictly to dump salary, because there won’t be much of a return. And no, he’s not in the Kerry Wood category (yet)-he hasn’t played as long as Wood. Now, other stuff-Miss.Delta Matthew-I wasn’t jumping on your case, Dude, several had mentioned it earlier and I was just wondering why anyone would even care about signing this Harris guy. As far as I can see, he isn’t very good at all and woonder how hard up we would have to be to sign him. As far as the Sexson deal goes-Why on earth would we trade for a $13 million salary? Even dumping Hudson on them and getting rid of LaRoche would show no savings of salary whatsoever. It makes absolutely no sense. We would have one less pitcher and would have traded a 30HR hitting first baseman who makes $2.5million for a 30 HR hitting firstbaseman who makes $13 million. Makes no sense.

By rammerjammer

December 4, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

I was all for dealing HoRam until the market went crazy.

Suddenly, even with arbitration, he may be more within our budget than any other decent veteran starter who’s available.

DOB has sung the virtues of three lefties in the rotation, so let’s do it.

By bruce

December 4, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer… who do you think the Pirates might be thinking the Braves would want? Chris Duffy? to lead off and play left and then center if Andruw leaves?

By geauxbraves2000

December 4, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

I’d take LaRoche over Sexson any day of the week. I’d take LaRoche over almost any firstbaseman in the league.

Geaux Braves!!

By Lew

December 4, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

KC-You make mention in terms of Hudson, of hitter friendly parks that lead to offensive explosions. I agree with you in most cases, but I would like you to look at something no one seems to mention when talking about Hudson-The Colisseum in Oakland. That park has more foul territory than they have space in the outfield in Denver. How many outs do you think that might have contributed to Hudson’s success while pitching for the A’s? Mulder, too. Do you or anyone really think that if Zito signs with the Rangers that it won’t affect him, too?

By ernesto

December 4, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

LaRoche over that Sexson windmill? Couldn’t agree more. Adam’s good young and cheap. Don’t forget this was his first year not platooning, so he’s good with potential to get even better, I think everyone would agree Sexson is all the player he’s ever going to be.

By Shaun

December 4, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

Jim,

Strikeouts are okay as long as they are balanced out by a lot of walks and power.

By ncscoots

December 4, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

good grief, Andruw to the Angels would give LA a $50MM outfield. Even the Angels would have to blink twice at that, wouldn’t they?

On another note, it’s hard to imagine the Braves trading Giles because of salary constraints, and then adding Jacque Jones’ salary. That would be kind of a wash budget-wise, no?

By rammerjammer

December 4, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Gonzalez was 24 for 24 in save opportunities with a 2.17 ERA and 64 Ks in 54 IP. And, a lefty. As DOB would say, yowza.

But I agree, Billy, that’s not enough for a 30/90/.280 27-year-old first baseman who can pick it around the bag.

By ncscoots

December 4, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

Hey, I really like Mike Gonzalez and have lobbied for him here many times, but to trade Adam? I’d want Gonzalez, Duffy, and more, just to OPEN the conversation. Adam has a chance to be a force, both offensively and defensively, and the Braves would be right to ask for a break-the-bank trade to move him.

By Matthew, Mississippi River Delta, Anglo-French-Scottish-Cherokee, Arkansan-American

December 4, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Wow, that has to be the longest moniker I’ve ever used. BTW, I am the 26th great-gradson of Robert the Bruce, king of Scotland in the Braveheart movie. Also, President James K. Polk is a cousin of mine, but he didn’t leave me any money…on to other things.

Lew:

No offense taken-I was just curious what everyone knew about Harris and if his signing actually occurred. I couldn’t find him on the 40-man roster.

KC: I know Kline used to be pretty good, although I didn’t know about the character issues. If he is going to make 3-5 per year, then why did San Fran not offer him arbitration to preserve the right to the signing team’s draft pick? Are they sore for money, or did they just want to get rid of him really badly. Just curious.

DO NOT TRADE LAROCHE He has finally turned the corner, and the dumbest thing to do would be to trade him. If you can get Mike Gonzalez and Chris Duffy, then give them Salty, Giles, Devine, and HoRam. But keep Laroche here-he will be an All-Star next year. Richard Cory, you can add that to my list of prognostications.

By KC

December 4, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

berigan:

I agree that their confidence in him can’t possibly be anywhere near where it was a couple years ago when they introduced him to the media. I also agree that the fact that they were willing to deal him at all (if in fact those rumors were true) proves that point.

However, if Atlanta were simply looking to unload his salary, it would have already happened. Given that he “only” makes 6 million next year, and the fact that in this year’s market, Adam friggin’ Eaton got a 3 year deal for 8.33 million a season!!… There are definitely teams out there who would not be intimidated by Hudson’s remaining contract obligations.

The fact that Atlanta wasn’t willing to simply “unload” him, means they surely have some faith left in Hudson. Again, I’m sure their confidence in him has been shaken, but apparently not destroyed.

I understand your point about the risk involved in keeping him, and it’s a valid point. I just don’t see it as being as risky as you feel it is. Hudson makes 6 million next season. Hell, you can’t sign a free agent with an ERA of under 9.00 for that right now!!! Okay, I’m exaggerating, but not as greatly as I wish I were.

There’s good news and bad news regarding the recent player salary inflation… the bad news is, we can’t sign a free agent that’s worth a damn right now. The good news is, we’re really not in much danger of getting “stuck” with Hudson’s contract after all. Over the next 3 seasons, the Braves owe only 7 million (total) more to Hudson than the Phillies will owe to Adam Eaton. Hudson’s contract doesn’t look *all that big anymore.

If Hudson can merely keep an ERA of around 4.00… there will be teams willing to take on at 13 million. That’s the kind of market we’re in right now. Not to mention that a 4.00 ERA with this offense and an improved bullpen (it’s already improved, and I assume it will be further improved by opening day), would probably be enough to win 15 games.

Personally, as I’ve mentioned, I think 2006 was an aberration, and that he’ll post an ERA somewhere in the low or middle 3.00 range where he’s been almost his entire career up until this year. If in fact that happens, there would be suitors in droves if the Braves decided to part with him (though they would probably be foolish to if he bounces back in 07’).

We’ll just have to wait and see. But regardless of what any of us think should happen, I seriously doubt that anything will happen involving Hudson, unless another top-tier starter comes available.

By A.J.

December 4, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Richie Sexson hasn’t played outfield in 6 years. Don’t expect to ever see him there again, especially not for the Braves.

The problem with Hudson is that there is no right answer yet. He obviously still has good stuff. He has had some brilliant outings: matched up (ironically) with Glavine in NY early in the season, his one hitter against a hot Colorado team (I was there- filthy). But he just has not been at all consistant, and you do have to be scared because his numbers have consistantly declined for the last several years.

I think JS is acting just as has been said by every credible report. He is exploring a deal (as anyone would with a faltering pitcher set to get a 7 million dollar raise next year), but is not going to give him up for just anything (as anyone wouldn’t with pitching prices skyrocketing and this guy still having a chance to be great).

Plus, don’t overlook the fact that if Hudson does pull it together, he has expressed an interest in being a Brave for life, which makes it even more inviting to take the chance on him.

Plus scouts everywhere are calling him done, scouts have been wrong before, but with the chior saying no, don’t expect a GM to say yes considering what the Braves would be asking.

The Braves may trade him, but they will be looking for a sure thing in return.

By BravesFaninRockies

December 4, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

DOB,

A question about arbitration: Will the current FA salary insanity push arbitration figures for guys like Marcus higher than they would have been otherwise?

In other words, should we still assume that Marcus will command “only” $5MM-6MM in arbitration this year, or is that number likely to rise, given the recent surge in FA salaries?

Thanks —

By berigan

December 4, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Only reason I could see that there is talk of trading LaRoche is that some in the organization just don’t think he can repeat. Still wonder if there couldn’t be some wild 3 way trade…Angels and Red Sox….

By Lew

December 4, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

If the Pirates make the deal Zack Duke and Mike Gonzalez, Roachy is a Pirate and Thorman will begin his shot at first.

By Richard Cory

December 4, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

Matthew got you down for a yes. berigan got you down for a no. Thanks

By Nelson Hawkins

December 4, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

Speaking of lame endings to the Glavine saga (great piece, DOB; it would make a great column for the AJC), how about lame beginnings to the Braves offseason? I searched Tanyon Sturtze at baseballreference.com hoping to find some magical stat, to divine something in the splits that would reveal a diamond in the rough, acquired on the (relative) cheap. All I can write at this point is that it appears he’s something of an innings horse, at least when healthy, but that has to be a concern for a 36-year-old who could be at best in the twilight of a mediocre career. Hope I’m wrong, and I’m willing to give Schuerholz the benefit of the doubt—maybe someone in blogsville can show me what I’m not seeing in the numbers. At best I can see him being signed as a guy who can at least come out and get one out to prevent the kind of toxic spills Reitsma, Inc. was dumping all last spring (and early summer). Sturtze is a marquee bullpen name, at least relative to the Ken Rays we’ve had recently, and that’s gonna cost a little bit more, even if he’s not ready to start the season.

By rammerjammer

December 4, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

Duffy is really, really fast…but that’s about all. Very low OBP and lots of strikeouts. Can’t imagine he’d be a target…maybe an add-on but not the main ingredient.

Gonzalez and a starter for LaRoche, perhaps. Bucs have several promising starters, all young and inexpensive.

By berigan

December 4, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Well, according to Ken Rosenthal’s column… The Pirates have inquired about Braves first baseman Adam LaRoche, but are unlikely to part with the pitcher the Braves covet most, left-handed closer Mike Gonzalez. If the Braves traded LaRoche, they most likely would go with Scott Thorman at first base next season.

Jeez, you’d think the pirates would jump at a chance to get LaRoche, but perhaps they would rather get a stud pitching prospect. You know teams will kill to get a lights out closer. The Red Sox could really use one once Papalbom goes back to starting.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

BravesFan, no, the current free-agent explosion won’t affect arbitration salaries for most guys, because they’re compared to guys within their own class _ first-year arb-eligibles salaries are set according to comparision to other first-year arbi eligibles, etc. EXCEPT fifth-year (final) arbitration eligibles like Giles, who could see an increase, the way I understand, since fifth-year arbitration eligibles are set based on comparison to all players at his position, not just arb-eligibles. So if a bunch of free agent second basemen get huge deals, I’d think it could affect Giles’ award if he were to go to an arbitration hearing in February.

Someone else asked about Giles and Jacque Jones “being a wash” as far as salar. Not so, because Jones is under contract for two more years at $4 mill in 2007 and $5 mill in 2008. He also got a $4 mill signing bonus when he signed the three-year, $16 mill deal before last season, but I’d think that would be paid already by Cubs and not affect a team trading for him. Counts against Cubs’ salary for payroll accounting purposes, the bonus does.

By rivers

December 4, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

dob, What are the odds that we sign one of the lesser named sluggers like a kevin mench?

By NCBravesFan

December 4, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

Now that we know that Glavine is not returning to ATL, I’m not sure how trading Huddy at this point makes any sense. Seems to me it would be hard to get good return in a trade given his 2006 numbers. If he returns to form in ‘07, his salary going forward would not be all that expensive - especially if the Braves can finally start spending a little more coin after the sale. And frankly, I’m not sure trading him makes any sense unless you can get a durable starter in return. The only thing that might make sense is to clear Hudson’s salary to make a run at signing Andruw. I doubt the Braves will even get close to getting Andruw to agree to a trade next year - not with free agency staring him in the face. However, given his love for Atlanta and Bobby C., he might sign with the Braves for the right amount of money.

By ncscoots

December 4, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Lew, even I will admit that Duke and Gonzalez would be tempting. Mouth-watering, in fact, and a scenario that made me blink, rather than immediately reject. But, in the end, I think I’d still have to leave it on the table.

Tell you what, though, sweeten that deal anymore and it would be almost impossible not to take it.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

Hey, I want to take a moment to correct an atrtribution I made about Glavine. It was the Elias Sports Bureau, not Stats Inc, that had that great stat about Mets’ record (24-8) in Glavine’s starts, the second-best winning percentage of any major league starter last season.

Stats Inc and Elias are the best, by far, at what they do, but nobody comes up with those kind of off-the-beaten path stats like Elias does. I was doing a bunch of numbers with our own pay Stats Inc service that day and came across the Elias stat elsewhere, and in my haste I misattributed it. I’m gonna fix it in the blog now, but anyway, I wanted to apologize to Elias folks for not giving them the credit for a great stat…

Nelson, for something at least a bit optimistic about Sturtze, scroll higher and look at the numbers against lefties and during his really strong start in 2005 before they wore him out in New York….

By Lew

December 4, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

Nelson-Unless the Braves non-tender him, Reitsma is still a Braves. He is arbitration eligible. Count on him pitching for the Braves this season.

By A.J.

December 4, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

The Pirates would really really have to be sold on LaRoche to trade both Duke and Gonzalez, and the Braves sold on Duke as well.

If I remember right, it seems like when the Braves were looking for a closer at the deadline, the Pirates wanted a good bit for Gonzalez.

A trade like that is intriguing, esp with Thorman (and possibly Salty later) waiting in the wings for first, but I would have to imagine that JS would have to get rave review from the scouts to give up LaRoche at this point.

Even in that situation the Sexson deal seems like a stretch at 13 or 14 mill, unless the Mariners eat some of that, also unlikely with Hudson’s salary going up in 2008.

By Jim

December 4, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

Better than LaRoche:

Pujols Howard Helton Lee

Same as Laroche?: Delgado — because of age, cost, and defense put in this category Johnson — injury prone, and didn’t match LaRoche’s power numbers, but more consistent hitter Fielder — now, but higher upside Gonzalez — probably better after breakout season for both

This ranks LaRoche somewhere between 5th and 10th out of 16 (and assumes Berkman and Dunn are OFs) It means he is an average IB whose price will not skyrocket when he becomes eligible for free agency. It also means that someone from the farm like Thorman or Kala Kaiahue could be expected to replace him with comparable production if he becomes too expensive to keep.(Next season will be his 4th and will give a more accurate picture of just what can be expected from him.)

By KC

December 4, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

Ernesto:

“All you guys who put together the stats to show how great Huddy’s been are just missing one thing…he ain’t been that great. Top 7 this, top blah-blah that…bottom line - he’s been hittable, beatable and mediocre. You don’t need a stat sheet to prove it either, you just had to watch the games.”

If you are referring to 2006, I will agree with you 100%. This year he was very hittable, more often than not. You could certainly see that by watching the games and the stats will bare that out.

I never tried to put together any stats to spin the season Huddy just had. If you’re referring to 04 or 05, then yes, there is a stat that will show how successful he was… ERA. As I’m sure you know, it’s a simple measurement of how many runs you allowed vs. how many innings you pitched. You can spin most the other numbers any way you want, but for a starter, ERA doesn’t lie. A pitcher’s job is to keep the other team from scoring. Period. Amen. Ultimately, it’s not about hits, walks, strike outs, or anything else. It’s about keeping the team from scoring. With that in mind, there is no way to call his 04 or 05 seasons “mediocre”. There just isn’t. Perhaps mediocre by Tim Hudson standards, but not by MLB standards.

Again, no one’s arguing about this season. He was bad. If I seemed as though I were trying to spin it any other way, I unequivocally apologize. I can’t deny the season he just had, and I haven’t tried to.

However, I am optimistic about him for next season for 3 reasons: 1-he’s still fairly young, 2-he’s healthy, and 3-history is on his side.

I was puzzled by Hudson’s season, as many have been. It’s odd for a top-tier pitcher in his prime to struggle like that with no attributable injury or satisfactory explanation of any kind. I was curious to find out if there was much precedent for the kind of season he just had, and I found that there was. I did a bit of a study on this, and found that (still young) top-tier pitchers who struggle and just look uncomfortable for a season, almost always (based on the past 25 years of MLB history) bounce right back the following season.

I’m not predicting that Hudson will have a great season. I’m simply saying that given his health, age, the fact that his stuff’s the same as it ever was, and the fact that similar pitchers (in terms of prior success) who were coming off similar seasons, bounced right back… I think the odds favor Hudson’s turning in a solid effort in 07’. So if I had to bet one way or the other, I’d certainly bet on him, rather than against him. That’s all I’m saying.

By NYM

December 4, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

OK Lew, I guess your just an A-HOLE who got his feelings hurt by a Mets fan and now you can’t have a civil conversation. All I was doing was making a point but I’m must have been out of line or something.

By Jim

December 4, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this

Zach Duke is a pitcher that is very comparable to Chuck James. He did not have the success the second year that he did when he first came up. I don’t think we need a pitcher that similar to James. The Pirates have had a number of A/AA level prospects that have either burned out or have not had the same success at higher levels. Gonzalez is the only interesting player in the discussion, but a one-for-one trade may not make sense for either team.

By berigan

December 4, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

This was on Buster’s blog a few days back…check out what was said about Hudson…. *• Tom Glavine keeps waiting for an offer from the Braves. Atlanta can free up money to sign Glavine if it trades Tim Hudson, but rival executives are concerned about whether Hudson will break down, particularly by 2008 and 2009, when he is under contract to get $13 million a year. *

By KC

December 4, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

LEW:

I will just say this in regard to Ramirez. I’m not pointing the numbers I quote on HoRam in order to spin things and make it appear as though he’s been brilliant to this point in his career. I’m just telling you that when he was healthy this season, he looked impressive to me overall. There was a consistency issue over those 12 starts, and it’s hard to say why. I just say enough from him that was very positive, that I feel if he can stay healthy in 07’, he’ll be a very solid starter, with the potential to be more than “solid”. McDowell worked with him, got him sinking the ball, cut his HR/9-inn in half… and for the most part, I really liked what I saw. He appears to be injury prone, but again, we don’t really need him in the rotation anyway. If HoRam goes down… really man, it’s just not that big a deal.

If HoRam goes down, you call up someone to fill in as a 5th starter. We’ve got one or two guys (Davies, Cormier) that the Braves feel deserve a chance start a full season at the big league level anyway, with no room for them at the big league level. It’s not like Ramirez is penciled in as our #3 starter as we did heading into last season. Worst case scenario, he breaks down, we call up a 5th starter, and wish him a fast recovery.

However, I feel (though you probably disagree) that his ceiling is high. If he stays healthy and continues to pitch the way he did the majority of the time this season when he was healthy… the best case scenario is that we have 2 excellent young lefties in our rotation. Then if you want to trade him, you’ll get a king’s ransom in return.

He’ll make 3 million dollars this year. If he were a free agent right now, he’d get twice that much, and we both know it. It’s a low risk-high reward opportunity to round out the bottom of our rotation with Horacio Ramirez next season, and particularly in this market, 3 million just isn’t enough to scare me into dumping a talented young lefty. It’s just not.

Hey, we’ve been debating this one for a while… am I any closer to changing your mind? LOL!!!!

By DCarp23

December 4, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

DOB-I wondered if you had a list of what the Braves owed guys on their roster next year, i.e., how the $80 mil breaks down. I realize that you might have one or two other things on your plate right now, so if anyone else knows of a place to look, I’d appreciate it.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

NYM-You sound just like that dipsh!t NLChamps from last season, or maybe NYMets who was here a while ago. All you want is to stir up a bunch of grief and aggravation. Go to a Mets site and tell them how much you love them. I don’t care. Maybe they can commiserate about Beltran and his locked knees in the playoffs. Talk about a*******ho!es. I guess you would know. That’s all I have to say to you.

By rivers

December 4, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

dob, would the braves be interested in a player like shannon steward. I mean he is coming off injury and he is a high risk/high reward player that might be able to play left field and lead off for us. Just a thought from outside the box.

Thanks and keep up the good work in sunny fla.

By ernesto

December 4, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

KC Fair enough point on the ERA, I’m just saying that when the Bravos signed him I thought we’re going to have the feeling where every time Huddy starts we expect to win (think the way Smoltz makes you feel) , I don’t know about the rest of you, but I haven’t felt that way in a loooooong time. He gives me more of a 4th starter , “well if he’s on and we get some runs, I like our chances” kind of feeling.

By TN-MAN

December 4, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

DOB.. Anything new happening on the Braves front at the Winter Meeting. Surely John S. has to be working on something?

By KC

December 4, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

Ernesto:

Yeah, that’s certainly the feeling he gave all of us this year. I personally felt pretty good when he went to the mound last year (2005), but this year was ugly.

I would love to see Hudson revert to CY Young form, and maybe that will happen. But when I say I expect him to have a solid year, I’m talking something more along the lines of what he did in 04 and 05. If anyone wants to see how valuable a 3.50 ERA starter is… wait and see how much a guy with a (roughly) 4.00 ERA over the last 3 seasons- Barry Zito- takes home this winter.

Lew: When Hudson’s on, he’s a ground ball guy, so I don’t think the foul territory would have helped him quite as much as some others. While foul territory is a good thing for pitchers, I’m not sure it has a statistically noticeable impact. Just my feelings on it.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

KC-If we really don’t need him in the rotation,then why, exactly should we keep him. The Dude is due to make $4.5 million this year in arbitration-way to much to pay for inconsistency and injury. At this point in time, I would get what I could get for him and let Cormier have the fifth starter slot if necessary. One way or another, we have to lose some of the uncertainty in our rotation. It would be much better to spend his salary on a top flight reliever-or even just a GOOD reliever. For as often as a 5th starter goes, Cormier has shown he will do fine. With Villarreal doing long relief and I think that will be his spot, Cormier would be better as a starter, anyway. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

KC-I just checked, anmd Ramirez made $2.2 million this year. I think his raise, even with the time on the DL, will top $4million, not the $3mil you mentioned. That extra million could buy another Sturtze.

By mariner

December 4, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

Jayson Stark reports, “The Mets and Rangers are in the running for free-agent starter Vicente Padilla, who is weighing both three- and four-year offers. He’s expected to decide soon.”

I hope the Mets sign him to a long fat contract. I think he is a mediocre pitcher.

By berigan

December 4, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this

Lew, I was all with you saving money by trading Ramirez…till you said the extra million could buy another Sturtze! ;)

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 4, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this

maybe having a little time off will do sturtze some good, a la villareal.

what the heck is going on with daryle ward?!?!? every so often, i’ve read that he’s the only free agent the braves plan to re-sign, so what’s taking so long?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this

I think the LaRoche trade rumors with the Pirates are interesting but in the end will go nowhere. The only way I see LaRoche getting traded is if the Pirates part with either Gonzales or Grabow, one of their young starting pitchers, and Xavier Nady. I don’t see the Pirates really wanting to get rid of Gonzales or Nady. If the Pirates were to say give the Braves one of their young starters and Nady then I think a deal could be worked out. The Braves could send Langerhans along as part of the deal. Nady would at least be able to step in at 1B. The Braves would lose the defense but Nady would provide enough offense to make the deal worth it. The Braves could also offer Giles and Ramirez to the Astros for Morgan Ensberg and perhaps Lidge. Yes, Ensberg will be arbitration eligible after next season but the Braves could worry about that then. Ensberg could play 1B and Nady to the outfield. That is a litte far reaching I know but it could be worked out. I guess a more realistic option would be to ask for Taveras and Lidge for Giles and Ramirez. Taveras would give the Braves a leadoff hitter and a LF. A bullpen from the seventh inning on of Paronto/McBride, Lidge, and Wickman sounds good to me. The rotation would be Hudson, Smoltz, Hampton, James, and whatever starter the Pirates would give up. The only question would be 2B where it seems more and more like Prado would be the guy. Someone earlier suggested Pete Orr be given the shot. At first I thought, “No way!” But, if he were platooned with Prado it could possibly work. A platoon would allow Prado to ease his way into playing 2B instead of just throwing him in there and hoping for the best.

I’m sure I will be ridiculed again. I’m just thinking out loud. Because of payroll constraints JS has to be creative. The one thing he can’t do is just sit on his hands. I said all along that this team was better than what it played like last season. However, the team had holes and so far those holes haven’t really been addressed. The Braves must get another starter for insurance against Smoltz and Hampton.

Those rumors about Hudson to Seattle for Sexton are moronic. Why would the Braves take on a marginal 1B who is making $13 mil when LaRoche is already here. Swapping LaRoche for Nady would make sense but not for Sexton. I personally would not want Sexton here. As for Andruw, he isn’t going anywhere. The Braves missed the boat by not trading him at the deadline. They are stuck with him. The only teams that would possibly take him are the Angles, Dodgers, and White Sox but I think Andruw will refuse to sign an extension with any of those teams unless they gave him $20 mil a year. After seeing this free agent market Andruw has to know that he can get mad paid next year. The other problem is will any of those teams pony up and give close to equal value for Andruw. That is the problem with the Red Sox. I think the Sox would trade for Andruw in a minute (given he would go there) but the price would just be too steep. JS would probably ask for Youklis and/or Nixon and that is just for starters.

By NYM

December 4, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

OK Lew, I’ll go to a Mets site because your f-a-g-g-o-t a-s-s said so. You put so much fear in me I can barely write.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this

I wonder if the Rangers (who need a CF) would be willing to trade Ian Kinsler and Mark Texiera for Andruw Jones. The Rangers seem to be in a giving mood, so I could see them giving Andruw a 5yr/$90mil contract which I would think even Boras would have to agree is fair and jump at it. Just wondering.

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 4, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

I think the Hudson for Sexson talk from Seattle is just that, talk. While JS would have made the deal to clear payroll for Glavine, I agree with everyone else in that it doesn’t make sense in this situation. Someone in Seattle read more into our willingness to move Hudson than what was there.

One guy that looks to be available (at least according to MLB.com) is Colorado’s Jason Jennings. The Rockies picked up his option for next year for $5.5 mil, but they’re supposed to be looking for a centerfielder. They definitely don’t need a 2nd baseman since they picked up Kaz Matsui from the Mets in a July trade, so not sure if JS has what the Rockies need right now to pry him out of Denver.

By J-MAN

December 4, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

D.O.B. I haven’t checked what going today but I see trade rumors involving Richie Sexon for Hudson and LaRoach going to Pittsburgh. So which Deals if any has any valendinty to it. Also whats going on in Orlando, while you’re down there check out a Magic game and give Mike Woodson the scouting report because they got killed a couple of weeks back.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this

Whatever. The droning of insects and obnoxious bores is deafening. Calling my sexuality into question. Gee, have we ever had anyone do that before? Are we confronted by yet another of the multiple personalities? Is it Whining I hear? Or is it just the infantile ramblings of another sub ground level IQ, full of the sound and fury and signifying nothing? Enquiring minds really don’t give a damn.

By Haywood Jablome

December 4, 2006 07:30 PM | Link to this

Dear Robert, Good evening sir, I am here to ridicule you. Giles and Ramirez for Lidge and Ensberg? No more eggnog for you!

By flange1

December 4, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

Hey All,

NYM, face it, you lost, Lew put it to you….Go away…

In terms of the Sexton rumor, maybe it is a stop in a three way deal….

LaRoach for Gonzales and something is interesting. Where are all the anti-Roachy fans now? Interesting that he improved once he went on a MLB banned substance. Wonder how long he will be approved for that drug. With all the anti-performance enhancing zealots out there how long MLB will allow guys like Adam to continue using these drugs..

Any thoughts on that? You guys have a lot of negatives for Barry, McGuire, Sosa etc., LaRoach is LEGALLY using a performance enhancer now……

It COULD change….

By Stinky

December 4, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this

Richard Cory, you’re a supreme pessimist to claim to be a Braves Fan. No one ever bets on a team before spring training. You’ve suckered some dedicated Braves Fans for your own purposes. ES&D you gutless POS.

Lew, you are an A’hole, but you’re OK in Stinky’s Book. I still like Ramirez. KC’s right. It’s too early to give up on him. Though I still like James more.

Grinch, I missed you. I had to lay low after making an a* of myself on Friday. Mrs. Stinky read what I posted and cut off my beer supply for a couple of days(the horror, the horror). I still think DOB was a bit eager in portraying TMG’s sincerity to return to the TED fulltime. I’m sure that all Braves fans now know that TMG is SATAN. But I could hardly walk, much less interact in semi-polite society.

And if we had to give up Hudson to bring TMG aboard, well that would have been heeping damnation on the whole franchise. Glavine only made sense if we had a killer rotaion while weekening the Metropolitan Plague’s rotation.

A thought to ponder: If Andruw is traded next year before the deadline and refuses to go, he hurts himself something fierce. He would probably be dealt to a contender and his refusal to go would be a sign that he’s not a gamer. The Braves can still get something for him if next year is something like this past year.

By bulldog

December 4, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

DOB any truth to these rumors?

Day one of the Winter Meetings in Orlando and no action on the Braves’ front – at least not yet.

The Braves have been surprised that the one name that keeps coming up in trade talks is first baseman Adam LaRoche. More than a handful of teams have asked about the lefty hitting LaRoche, who had a career season in 2006. LaRoche hit .285 last season with 32 home runs and 90 RBI.

The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim have expressed significant interest in LaRoche. The Braves and Angels are expected to meet Tuesday for trade discussions. The Angels are dangling right-handed starter Ervin Santana for a big bat. But the Braves are interested in expanded the discussions. They have interest in outfielder Chone Figgans, first baseman Casey Kotchman, and reliever Scot Shields.

The Pirates have also shown interest again in LaRoche. They expressed interest a few weeks ago at the General Manager’s meetings. Pittsburgh has several interesting relievers, but they have been reluctant to include closer Mike Gonzalez in a deal. There have been rumors the Pirates could offer Paul Maholm in a trade, which could satisfy the Braves desire for a young starting pitcher.

The Giants and Devil Rays are two other teams that have some interest in LaRoche.

As for Tim Hudson, the interest in him is not as significant. However, he has been involved in trade discussions with the Orioles and could be included in the talks with Anaheim. Most teams want the Braves to give Hudson away, but the team is not interested in that. The Braves want significant pieces in return for Tim Hudson.

The Braves are really pushing for a deal with Baltimore. They would love to send Hudson to the Orioles for second baseman Brian Roberts. More than likely, there would be some additional pitching involved in the deal, and there’s a chance Marcus Giles could be dangled back to the Orioles to replace Roberts at second base.

Giles will more than likely be traded before the end of the meetings on Thursday. Talks with the Padres have cooled a bit. San Diego knows the Braves want Scott Linebrink in return, but the Padres have postured to the point where the Braves have to look around elsewhere. They still believe Giles will be traded before the end of the meetings.

No real talk about Andruw Jones here at the meetings. It seems understood that other teams know of the situation, and the Braves would be interested in at least listening to any proposal.

So Tuesday could be an interesting day. GM John Schuerholz was tied up in MLB meetings for most of the day. The Braves plan to meet tonight and again in the morning before having several trade meetings.

It looks like a trade of Adam LaRoche is a real possibility. The Braves feel they may have to take advantage of the significant interest in him at the meetings. If they are able to build a trade around LaRoche and Santana, and also possibly include Figgans, they may pull the trigger.

Figgans, a native Georgian who stole 178 bases the last three seasons with the Orioles, could fit in as the leadoff hitter and in left field. Kotchman could be important since he would give the Braves insurance for Scott Thorman, who would likely replace LaRoche as Atlanta’s starting first baseman.

But if the Braves trade Giles and LaRoche, would they trust two rookies (assuming Martin Prado would replace Giles) on the right side of the infield? Well, that’s where the Baltimore trade could become very important. If the Braves got Brian Roberts, they would have another speedy switch-hitter at the top of their lineup. Roberts has stolen 115 bases over the past four seasons.

If the Braves could swindle another arm in the Baltimore deal, then they could perhaps add youth to the pitching staff and switch LaRoche and Giles for Thorman/Kotchman and Roberts. Plus, the Braves would probably immediately move switch-hitting catcher Jarrod

By brian

December 4, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

The Braves are not going to trade LaRoche. Look at his stats and defense. Look at his salary. The Braves would like about 3-4 more LaRoche’s. If Escobar hits in spring training like he did in AZ, the Braves will have to find a place to start him

The full article on the Sexton/Hudson trade written by a Seattle reporter has the Braves also eating part of Hudson’s salary. Talking about throwing darts in the dark. The Braves take on a whiff master, injury prone 1B for $14 million AND absorb a good bit of Hudson’s contract???? The only way the Braves eat some of Hudson’s contract is if the Braves get the Mariners top OF prospect in return for Hudson and not Sexton (which is not going to happen anyway)

I agree with the above posts that the Braves need good, live, young arms. Hard throwers. Ervin Santana would be a good target.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 4, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this

Chone Figgins is an interesting idea. There’s your leadoff guy.

By NCBravesFan

December 4, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

Stinky - I respectfully disagree about Andruw. He’ll be a 10/5 guy in his free agent season. He would be well within his rights to decline any trades and play the market after the season is over. The only way he might go is if he and Boras feel the contract offered by the team he would be traded to is fair market value (assuming it’s a team he wants to play for as well).

By Richard Cory

December 4, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

Stinky SALUTE

By J-MAN

December 4, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

Richard Cory, whats the tally at on the division predictions now and I officially said 94 wins but I wern’t sure if it would win the division but I’ll go on ahead and say theyll win it so put me in the yea column

By Paul

December 4, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

Santana would be a nice addition along with Figgins and even a relief pitcher. My only question is why would the Angels make that deal? Laroche is a nice player (good offensive numbers) and is solid on defense. He showed great promise after the year he had. Are those numbers career highs? Can he put up those numbers consistently year after year? If the trade rumor is legit, I think Anahiem is giving up way too much.

By brian

December 4, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

interesting post bulldog. If the Braves could get Santana, Figgins, Kotchman, Brian Roberts, and Penn they obviously would have had a huge winter meetings. Wheras the Angels may very well offer Santana (and maybe Kotchman) for LaRoche, I do not see them adding in Figgins as well unless it was a megadeal expanded to include Andruw. The Braves would be getting a lot in return but would be giving up their two biggest (power wise) bats from last year.

The Hudson/Giles for Penn/Roberts to me looks more realistic but as DOB has pointed out Hudson will not want any part Mazzone and the O’s.

Unless the Braves believe that Thorman will break out this year, Salty’s bat is major league ready and he will flawlessly make the transition to 1B, or Kotchman is every bit the prospect he was thought to be before mono (and again is major league ready) I just do not see the braves dealing LaRoche.

I see the braves trading away LaRoche in 1-2 years when/if Salty is ready to take over 1B and LaRoche is that much closer to arbitration/free agency.

By rvince

December 4, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this

To all those like bulldog who like stealing other people’s information you suck. If you guys want accurate braves news come on over to thebravesshow.com.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

I like Adam LaRoche and was one of the few people on here who defended him over the summer. I find it interesting how many “fans” he has all of a sudden. However, if the Angles were willing to trade Santana, Kotchman, and Figgins for him the Braves would be fools not to make that deal. I also like the idea of the Baltimore trade. If the Orioles would give up Roberts and either Berdard (sp?) or Lopez for Giles and Hudson the Braves should also jump on that as well. Yes, the roation wouldn’t have a bonafide ace but a rotation of Smoltz, Hampton, James, Santana, and Berdard or Lopez with Davies and Cormier as insurance sounds good to me.

Another option could be to offer LaRoche and Giles to the Angles for Santana, Kotchman, Figgins, and Shields. The Angels have plenty of pitching depth so Shields wouldn’t be that big of a loss not to mention that acquiring Giles could allow them to move Kendric to short making Orlando Cabrerra expendable and bait for a trade to replace Shields. The Braves could then offer Hudson and Ramirez to the Orioles for Roberts and Berdard or Lopez.

Those to me a very interesting trades and ones that could very well take place. While I have reservations about Thorman at 1B, Kotchman is a prized prospect of the Angels and could step in for Thorman or at the very least keep the seat warm until Salty is ready to take over. Figgins would more than fill LF position and leadoff. I know his OBP isn’t as high as it should be but the guy is a gamer and can play just about every position in the field. Heck, if Cox desired he could put Figgins at 2B (giving Prado time to season a bit more) and have Thorman and Diaz platoon in LF while Kotchman could play 1B and possibly even platoon with Jurries if he can get himself back together.

A lot to digest but I have a feeling these winter meetings just may begin to heat up. You know the old saying, “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.”

DOB, how much of this stuff is true?

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 4, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this

Anyone seen Kotchman’s awe-inspiring offensive numbers? .152 batting average with 1 homer in 2006.

By Richard Cory

December 4, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

Braves win division next year—-YES[7] Grinch,MEB,Carolina Lady,Lew,Greg in TN,Matthew & J-Man. No[3] SJA,Richard Cory & berigan. Hope I haven’t overlooked anyone.

By Stinky

December 4, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

Richard Cory, You’re not man enough to salute me. Again, ES&D you POS.

By MadduxRules

December 4, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

Bulldog,

Where did you get the info you posted…and thanks for posting it!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

I hear what is being said about why the Angels would give up that much for just LaRoche. I agree. But,if Giles or Ramirez was added to the deal I think the Angles would go for it. They really need a power bat. LaRoche fills that need. They lost out on Soriano and Manny is too epxensive. Tejada is an option but I think in the end he won’t leave the O’s. We’ll have to see I guess.

By Stinky

December 4, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this

NCBravesFan, You are correct that AJ would be within his rights to decline a trade. But if he does, he’ll be laying the groundwork for a lot of criticism whereever he goes if he doesn’t act like he wants to win.

Let me put it this way: he only hits .26? with a very friendly manager in a very familiar environment. What happens if he doesn’t take the challenge of stepping up to win? it might not be more than 15% of a 20mill contract, but I say he still has something to prove.

By Richard Cory

December 4, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

Stinky Lew has you pegged—a whiny little jerk. Salute

By MEB

December 4, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

thebravesshow.com - I think we have a better grasp here, on all things involving the Braves, then to pay for that rag.

By Stinky

December 4, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

Richard Cory/SJA, I’ve been called much worse and am probably much worse than that. Your middle finger don’t mean shyte, but I guess its the best you can do.

By Richard Cory

December 4, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this

Stinky At last we find something we can partially agree on.

By Rosalynn

December 4, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

P-O-T-U-S, President of the United States. That was Jimma’s handle for foah yeahs. We would climb on boahd Aih Fosce One and the Secret Service would say, POTUS on boahd! Jimma would just grin. Jimma has a mouth full of beautiful, raza sharp teeth that he likes to show off when he grins. Jimma and I were talkin’ awhile ago about that nice boy LaRoche. RobertJITB got Jimma to thinkin’ about trading LaRoche. My, my, that boy is laid-back for a ballplayah - hardly makes a noise when Jimma calls to him on the field. Sometimes Jimma will call LaRoche ovah befoah the game and offah him a handful of peanuts. That boy doesn’t even know who mah Jimma is - he just thinks Jimma is a peanut vendah. Imagine a peanut vendah with his own seawolf-class nuclear powered attack submarine! when ah christened that submarine I hit it just as hahd as I could right in the teeth with a big bottle of bubbly champagne. That felt so good - what? “What, Jimma? Nothing. I was just reading.” (Gotta go now)

By Tyler

December 4, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this

DOB, It’s been 5 hours since your last post. Please tell me the delay is that you are finalizing the details of some really good news for us.

By Stinky

December 4, 2006 10:05 PM | Link to this

RC, The part I agree on is that you sit on and suck on that salute finger.

By Stinky

December 4, 2006 10:08 PM | Link to this

POTUS? Is Rosalyn tryin’ to score some weed?

By Paul

December 4, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

I agree with the bullpen. The bullpen is already much improved from April of 2006. Ideally, another reliever would be great. I think freeing up payroll is the main concern. Unfortunately, there is not much the braves can do. (besides trading Giles and or Hudson)Still have no idea on how they can resign Andruw after the 2007 season. I’m sure that JS isnt looking to deal or try to deal AJ at the winter meetings.

By Rosalynn

December 4, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

Stinka, keep on bloggin’ with Stinka. I have nothin’ to say to you. In fact, very few bloggas have much to say to you. Whina little jerk. (Lew, how did you like that one?)

By journalist jimmy smith

December 4, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

this esteemed journalist has multiple personalities. but make no mistake, journalist jimmy smith prefers men even if they are former presidents. Oh the humanity!

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

Wow, what a day. A LOT of rumors swirling around the Braves, and these are legit rumors _ including LaRoche interest from the Angels, though Angels are very unlikely to give up Santana or Shields, from what I was told.

Still, if Braves can get Chone Figgins, another pitcher and young 1B Casey Kotchman (to compete with or back up Thorman), they might just have a deal. I was initially quite surprised they’d consider dealing LaRoche, but Braves are very serious about both controlling payroll and improving pitching, and if trading LaRoche allows them to replace Giles _ he’s a goner, count on it _ with a better leadoff hitter and decent/good 2B (that’d be Figgins), then they could use Giles to get another strong pitcher …. well, it could happen. Lots of stuff.

Hudson also being shopped aggressively, but Braves won’t deal him unless they get another starter in some trade. But they want to move his salary.

Figgins is very fast, steals a ton of bases, doesn’t have a good OBP but can hit for a good average (.285 career), and he’s under contract for 3.5 mill in 2007 and 4.75 mill in 2008. If Braves made another trade for a 2B or one of their own guys developed quickly, Figgins is a very solid LF who could play out there and bat leadoff. Very versatile guy.

Here’s the story I wrote, which I was surprised to see hadn’t been posted yet (it should be soon, but here it is anyway):

By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com

Lake Buena Vista, Fla. _ When Braves general manager John Schuerholz says the Braves are trying make moves to improve their pitching, he’s talking about more than Tanyon Sturtze, the rather middling middle reliever they signed Sunday.

On the first full day at baseball’s winter meetings Monday at Disney World, the Braves and at least five teams discussed trades that could bring Atlanta an elite setup man and a left-hander reliever, with second baseman Marcus Giles and possibly first baseman Adam LaRoche among pieces that could be involved.

The Los Angeles Angels have strong interest in LaRoche, and the Braves may listen if the Angels are willing to part with a package that includes utility man Chone Figgins and a pitcher. However, the Angels consider 23-year-old starter Ervin Santana and top setup man Scot Shields nearly untouchable.

A source familiar with the talks said the Braves and Angels planned to meet again late Monday, after the Braves’ 7 p.m. organizational dinner.

“A healthy Sturtze is a plus for our pitching staff,” Schuerholz said of the former Yankees right-hander, who the Braves hope will rebound from rotator-cuff surgery to help their bullpen by May. “But we’re looking beyond that….

“There’s no sense getting too terribly optimistic because at the last minute something may turn. The reality is, we feel good about some dealings we’re having and we’re hopeful it pays dividends for us.”

The Braves would like to land an eighth-inning man to strengthen the bridge between their starters and closer Bob Wickman. San Diego’s Scott Linebrink is another potential target, but the Padres would prefer to keep him.

The Padres need a second baseman and like Giles, a San Diego native whose brother, Brian, is a Padres outfielder. Marcus stands to make more than $5 million as a fifth-year arbitration-eligible player, and the Braves think they can fill in with a less-costly player, perhaps Figgins, who could hit leadoff. The Braves have young middle infielders capable of playing second, but Schuerholz said shortstop prospect Yunel Escobar isn’t ready yet to play second in the majors and Willy Aybar will likely remain in a backup role.

Figgins, 28, a native of Leary, Ga., is a .285 career hitter who’s played all infield positions except first, and all outfield positions. He’s probably good enough to start at second base and his speed _ 35 triples and 148 stolen bases in the past three seasons _ makes him a potential leadoff man.

Schuerholz wouldn’t discuss any potential trade targets, but answered questions about potential in-house replacements for Giles.

“We like [Aybar] in the role he’s in, which is a Wilson Betemit role,” Schuerholz said, “a super-utility player, switch-hitter, who can play more at second and third [if starters are injured].”

Pressed further about who might bat leadoff and/or replace Giles at second, Schuerholz said, “We have plans. We’re not conferring [the job] on anyone.”

He reiterated what he’s said before: Getting a leadoff hitter isn’t a priority. Pitching is.

“We scored more than enough runs last year without a proven leadoff hitter,” Schuerholz said. “If we pitch better, it won’t matter as much who hits leadoff.”

The Braves have heard some offers for starting pitcher Tim Hudson, who hasn’t met expectations in two seasons with the Braves and is owed $32 million over the next three seasons.

But they wouldn’t trade Hudson unless they could get another proven starter.

Pittsburgh also has interest in LaRoche, who hit .285 with 32 homers and 90 RBIs last season and could make about $2 million in his first year of arbitration. The Pirates have a wealth of young pitchers, but are reluctant to trade any of them.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

Glass Half Full: Kochman missed most of the season with mono. He’s a good/not great player, a good gap hitter throughout minor league career.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

Robert, the Angels turned down Manny Ramirez for Shields a while back. They’re not trading Shields or Santanta. Their other pitchers, maybe. not those two.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

Stinky-I thought we had it straight that I’m a Cranky Old Bit#h. Any deal for LaRoche that would bring Santana and Shields to the Braves works for me. There’s absolutely no way any one else in our division could put together a better staff than what that would give us. A rotation of Smoltz, Santana, Hampton, James and pick whichever of the leftovers for #5 (Ramirez, Cormier, Davies) and a bullpen of Paronto, Villarreal, Yates, McBride, Shields and Wicky. One more decent LH reliever and we’re good to go. Thorman is listed as the #5 prospect in the Organization by Chop Talk, which is probably pretty close to the Braves, so he would work out. Just keep Giles if we can dump Hudson.

By Lew

December 4, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this

I obviously posted that last before reading DOB’s comments. Stiil I guess now that everyone caan see that JS is not sitting on his thumbs. I think we’re going to have an extremely effective team come Spring Training. Thanks Miz Carter, I appreciate it. Stinky just needs counseling. He appears to be a Bulldog fan, so maybe, just maybe there’s something worthwhile to him. But I could be wrong.

By Jibo

December 4, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

DOB must be a sleep or out watching some band.I don’t blame him, everyone needs some fun.

By DCarp23

December 4, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this

DOB and others: do you think that the Braves think that Figgins will really solve their leadoff “problems” or is he more of a solution that allows them to end up obtaining pitchig? It surprises me that the team would be willing to give up the power potential that LaRoche and Giles provide and look to replace them with a guy with Figgins’ numbers. His OBP was .336 this year, and when you factor in that he was caught stealing 16 times, that effectively lowers it to .313. Additionally, the fact that he is a guy that makes a living off of speed and is coming up on 30 years of age, with numbers that have gone down each of the last two seasons, makes me surprised that the Braves would be this high on him. When you consider that Andruw is likely gone after this year, it seems that there is going to be a huge power vacuum in this lineup.

Of course, the Braves front office know s a hell of a lot more about evaluating guys than I do, but this interest still surprises me a bit.

By TN-MAN

December 4, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this

DOB- It seems obvious that Giles is going to be traded. Do you think that the Braves are still trying to get Linebrink, or do you think Giles is going to be traded somewhere else?

By Rosalynn

December 4, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

Stinka, has the formah first lady touched a nerve? What’s the matta boy? You are seein’ Jimma’s all ovah the place and it’s just me - Rosalynn. Now, calm yoself down a bit and quit talking your sexual pervuhsions, you whina little jerk. No one likes you, Stinka.

By ColoradoBraves Fan

December 4, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

DOB…. Why are the braves Shopping Hudson so agressively? If, Big if, he does have a half decent year in 2007, like an ERA of between 3.5 and 3.75, wouldn’t that make his salary of 13 Million a year in 08 and 09 attractive. Attractive for both the braves and a trade?

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

TN-MAN, I addressed Giles/Linebrink in my story posted above. Could go to S. Diego, could go elsewhere. I just don’t know at this point.

ColoradoBravesFan, yeah, Hudson could have a 3.60 ERA and win 15-18 games and be a relative bargain at 13 mill in ‘08 and ‘09. Or he could have another year like he’s had in the past three, or worse, and there could be a market correction or leveling off, and all of a sudden he’s not much of a trade value at all.

As I said, they’ll only trade him if they get another proven starter in a deal. Hudson fans, the Braves want to keep him. They’re not as sold on him bouncing back as you guys are, and they really, really, need to “manage payroll” and cut where they can to be able to afford to keep guys in coming years. You can only trade guys who other teams want, and among Braves making money that’s Giles and Hudson, not Hampton.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 4, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

esteemed journalist has been notifed that lance bass of n’sync is now available. journalist jimmy thinks lance and jimmy could live happily ever after. journalist requests that bloggers wish journalist jimmy and lance the best of luck in their future homosexual relationship. Oh the humanity!

By Rosalynn

December 4, 2006 11:24 PM | Link to this

Jimma said there is no way Chone Figgins can play for Bobba Cox. What would Bobba nickname Chone Figgins? Choney? Figgy? Figgy Puddin’? And what of Tanyon Sturtze? Sturtzey? That’s almost no nickname at all. Jimma is wise in these mattahs. Better to stay away from Chone Figgins and try to trade for somebody else named Jones. Why is no one on this team names “Jonesy”? That is because Andruw is Andruw and “Chippa” already is a stupid name (sorry I used Chippa and stupid in the same sentence).

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 4, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah….at least we know hte homeboy upstairs is trying..

By The Grinch

December 4, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this

DOB, thank god it’s Hudson and not Hampton they’re interested in…they must not have watched them both pitch side by side.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

DCarp, a lot of people here have been pinking for Figgins for some time, and I’ve always thought he’d be a PERFECT fit for the Braves, considering injury-prone Chipper, question mark in LF, and injury-prone and now on-the-way-out Giles (three positions he’s played and played well).

And now when they are talking about getting one of the very best utility guys in baseball, you’re wondering why they want him? I agree it seems a mistake to get rid of LaRoche, but a year from now Rochy might be looking at making $5 mill in his second year of arbitration. You’ve gotta look ahead sometimes, I guess. And they wouldn’t do the move unless it was combined with others and left them better overall in their pitching staff and covered at 2B and leadoff.

Anyway, regarding Figgins. He just turned 29, and even though his average and other stats slipped last year, he’s totaled 206 runs, 18 triples, 17 homers and 119 RBIs the past two seasons, while stealing 114 bases in 147 attempts. From 2003 to 2005 he hit .296, .296 and .290. He’s good, dude.

By the way, Juan Pierre in the past two seasons totaled 183 runs, 26 triples, five homers and 87 RBIs while stealing 115 bases in 152 attempts.

And while Figgins’ .352 and .336 OBPs the past two years weren’t great, they were better than Pierre’s .326 and .330.

Just thought I’d compare Figgins, who’ll make $3.5 mill and $4.75 mill the next two seasons, to the one-dimensional Pierre, who’s the same age (29) and just signed a five-year, $44 million contract.

By mariner

December 4, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

thanks for the update, dob. lots to think about. this will really stoke the rumor mill come tomorrow.

By Rosalynn

December 4, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this

Stinka, are you posting as Jimma Smith? You aren’t smaht enough to be Jimma Smith. Next you’ll be postin’ as my Jimma or maybe even as Miz Lillian or me. You are one sick pup. I couldn’t help but notice you mentioned havin’ a wife again. Those vinyl women are something else aren’t they sugah?

By The Grinch

December 4, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this

Also, thank you for acknowledging that Hudson hasn’t had seven “excellent” years vs. one bad one. It’s more like three excellent ones, three “decent if you’re a 4th starter” ones and last year, which spoke for itself. Hudson couldn’t carry Hampton’s jock, figuratively or litterally (he’s strain an oblique). Still love ya though, KC. :-)

By The Grinch

December 4, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

I really don’t like the idea of getting rid of LaRoche. I still don’t think we’ve seen the best of him. Figgins would be nice, but if Adam and Giles go, that’s a serious power drop-off that Figgins doesn’t come close to replacing. And when Andruw goes next year (and Chipper’s playing with a walker) that’s gonna mean our only power hitter will be Francour. Not good, Hank.

By Jman

December 4, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

DOB, Is it also possible that the Braves are trying to rid themselves of Hudson’s salary to try and make a run at retaining Andruw in 08?

By TN-MAN

December 4, 2006 11:48 PM | Link to this

DOB-Any idea of how the scheduled meeting between the Angels/Braves meeting may have progressed tonight?

By futurebravesgm2413

December 5, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

Figgins would be a great addition. As JS said before, pitching is a priroity. JS also pointed out that the Braves scored the 2nd most runs in the league with no real leadoff hitter in 06. If the Braves feel Thorman could step in at 1st then I would support trading LaRoche to improve the pitching staff. I trust the Braves’ brain trust to build a competing team.

By DCarp23

December 5, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this

DOB-Certainly solid arguments, and it obviously boils down to what stats you look at. Clearly, there’s not necessarily a right answer-some value some over others. Bill James has noted that teams that get the first man on in an inning score like 240% more of the time than those that don’t. Thus, when looking at a leadoff hitter, I would think a high OBP guy who doesn’t get caught stealing would be ideal. Then again, I am not a general manager and I am even less of a talent scout.

The fact that Figgins can play three positions (including second base, which most say is one of the most important on the field along with the others up the middle), certainly seems to boost his value. And if he can put numbers up like he did two seasons ago, every team would love a guy like that in their lineup.

And don’t do the guy wrong by comparing him to Pierre. What did he do, kick your dog?

Losing Laroche’s numbers from last year would obviously hurt the strength of that team, which was scoring runs. But as you noted, if you need pitching, you’ve got to do that sometimes.

I find it interesting that the Braves are willing to deal Laroche at this point, and it would indicate to me one of three things: the Braves are getting what they feel to be a steal of a deal, they feel that Thorman is legitimately big league ready or they feel that LaRoche peaked last year. Do you get a feeling that it was any of the above or a combination thereof?

Of course, none of this is set in stone, and not one of these deals has been made yet. It’s fun to sit on the sidelines, and I appreciate the input you provide.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

Well, if the Angels are unwilling to part with Shields or Santana, maybe they will send Kelvim Escobar. I wonder if JS agreed to send both LaRoche and Giles to the Angels if they would part with Howie Kendrick along with Figgins and perhaps Escobar.

As far as Hudson goes, I say attempt to package him with Horacio Ramirez to the O’s for Berdard/Benson and Rodrigo Lopez.

Now, if the Angles are unwilling to part with Kendrick (and I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if they weren’t interested in giving him away) then I say offer the Angles LaRoche and Ramirez for Figgins, Escobar, and Kotchman. Then offer the O’s Hudson and Giles for Brian Roberts and either Bedard or Benson. Benson could be a bit of a problem because of salary but if JS could get the O’s to pay just $2 mil of Benson’s salary this year alone then the deal could work.

Those are just some suggestions.

Another suggestion are the Cubs. Let’s say a deal could be worked out with the Angles that would involve LaRoche and Giles. I wonder if the Cubs would be willing to send Rich Hill and Jacque Jones for Ramirez and Hudson. The Cubs could be interested because Hudson would give them another front line starter to go along with Zambrano and Horacio could possibly fill out the rotation especially if they are unable to sign Schmidt or Lilly. Speaking of just this season Ramirez and Hudson’s salaries come to $8.7 mil while Jones and Hill come to $4.6 mil. The Braves would save $4 mil. I realize the Cubs say Hill is unavailable but if they can’t get one of the few free agent pitchers available or fear they won’t I think that Hudson for Hill won’t look so bad to them.

Just some thoughts. DOB, what do you think?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2006 12:32 AM | Link to this

I still say Houston is a potential spot for Hudson. The Astros can’t count on Clemens or Pettite coming back. I think JS could ask for Lidge and perhaps Taveras.

Whatever happens I think it has become evident that Hudson and Giles and apparently LaRoche will have to go to get the Braves where they need to be.

I don’t really want to see LaRoche go but if it would better the team then I’m all for it. I suggested back at the trade deadline that a deal with the Angles should be sought involving Giles and LaRoche. I understand that Hudson isn’t too interested in working with Mazzone again but that’s too damn bad. He doesn’t have much of a choice. Besides if he had pitched like he was supposed to be this wouldn’t even be an issue right now. So, all I can say to Hudson is, “oh, well”.

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this

Rosalynn, that was a nasty check. Ouch.

I trust JS knows what he’s doing (though the Sturtze move has me scratching my head). Otherwise it looks like we’re gonna wind up with a rotation consisting of 2 no 2’s (Smoltz and Hampton), a #3 in James (hopefully), #4 in Hudson (hopefully), 4 #5’s (Ramirez, Davies, Cormier and Villareal), and Sturtze to add into the eight interchangeable bullpen bufoons (excepting Wicky) we already have. It would be nice if we could trade about five of these extra guys for one good one in an area of need.

By A.J.

December 5, 2006 12:50 AM | Link to this

Wow, it seems tough to give up LaRoche right at the time he looks to really make things happen. But at the same time, Figgins I would say is the best incomplete leadoff man on the market, and if it would get some pitching too that would be great.

The only thing is this reminds me of the Betemit deal, which at the time, though I hated losing Betemit, looked like a great deal. A proven reliever and a guy that looks like Betemit three years ago (plus some speed minus some power), but in the end with Baez leaving (and never making much impact in the first place) it ended up being almost like giving up Betemit now for hopefully Betemit later.

If we give up LaRoche I just hope it’s for something that will last, not a short term thing we can’t hold on to.

By el bravo x

December 5, 2006 12:51 AM | Link to this

Rumors are like foreplay…4PLAY-FORE-CULTURE…FOR nothing. four sure? Margarita MONDAYS…

By mariner

December 5, 2006 01:06 AM | Link to this

with all the talk of laroache to angels, maybe there was some substance to the hudson for sexson talk? it seems like so many teams are waiting on zito and hudson. i hope they sign soon so other deals start to fall into place.

By mariner

December 5, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this

meant zito and schmidt. also, would really like the manny sweepstakes to come to an end. seems like the same teams that are in on zito and schmidt are also in on manny, which leads to gridlock. i hope it’s a busy tuesday.

By el bravo x

December 5, 2006 01:15 AM | Link to this

who is on first?

By Stinky

December 5, 2006 02:17 AM | Link to this

Rosalynn, that was not me posting as JJS.

But this nation owes you a debt of gratitude. We were able to get rid of Jimma 26 years ago. You on the other hand, have been sentenced to him for over 50 years.

Now that the nice young men in the white coats have you sedated, sleep well.

By NYM

December 5, 2006 06:40 AM | Link to this

Will the Braves make it over .500 in 2007?

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 08:12 AM | Link to this

Anybody read what Schuerholz said? He said getting a leadoff hitter is not a priority, improving the pitching is. The Braves scored enough runs without a proven leadoff hitter last season. If they pitch better, it won’t matter who hits leadoff, he says.

What have I been saying all off-season, so far, about the leadoff situation? I’ve said the Braves scored the 2nd most runs in the league without a prototypical leadoff hitter so why should they give up good players or a lot of money for one?

By KC

December 5, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this

I seriously doubt the Braves will part with LaRoche unless there’s a top-tier starter involved. You just don’t trade a low-cost star caliber bat for a middle reliever (or even two). I know Hudson isn’t going anywhere unless a big name starter (other than Hudson) is involved in the deal. Giles? Yes, he should already have his bags packed by now. Horacio Ramirez could be dealt, but only if the return matches the ability the Braves believe HoRam possesses.

By KC

December 5, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this

USAToday.com: New tool to catch sports cheats: Gene-doping test

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-12-05-gene-doping-test_x.htm

Maybe now is the right time for Bonds and Giambi to retire and save themselves further shame and embarrassment (Sheffield too).

By KC

December 5, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this

NYM:

Hmmmm… let’s see. The Braves are already a slightly better offensive team than the Mets. They have one of the most effective closers in baseball, and will continue reconstructing the bullpen this winter until its where it needs to be. The Braves rotation definitely looks better than the Mets right now… so, I fail to see where you as a Mets fan have the room to make smart-@ss comments right now. It just doesn’t look like you’re in a position to talk smack just yet.

I’ll tell ya what, sign Zito, Suppan, and maybe another bat… then come back and talk all the smack you want.

By David

December 5, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

Shaun JS also flatly stated last season after Furcal departed, that Betemit had their complete confidence as an everyday SS. That statement was hardly completed before Renteria was acquired. JS will acquire a leadoff hitter that can steal bases.Count on it.Giles was an abject failure and despite your nonsensical ramblings,Kelly Johnson,Matt Diaz and any of the other lame brained ideas you tout , they will not happen. Get over it.

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

David,

Maybe, maybe not. I would bet that the Braves will not give up a quality player for a leadoff hitter. If they get one it will be because he is packaged with a good pitcher. Again, why worry about a speedy leadoff hitter when the Braves didn’t have one last season and scored the second-most runs in the league. If a speedy, prototypical leadoff hitter is so important, how did the Braves score the second-most runs in the league without one? No one can answer that question.

Here’s is the excerpt from O’Brien’s story:

Pressed further about who might bat leadoff and/or replace Giles at second, Schuerholz said, “We have plans. We’re not conferring [the job] on anyone.”

He reiterated what he’s said before: Getting a leadoff hitter isn’t a priority. Pitching is.

“We scored more than enough runs last year without a proven leadoff hitter,” Schuerholz said. “If we pitch better, it won’t matter as much who hits leadoff.”

By A.J.

December 5, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

You know what, NYM isn’t far off. Maybe at times ridiculously childish, but the Braves WEREN’T over .500 in 2006, and we do have to be better to get over in 2007.

The Mets offense was better than ours, even if we did score more runs. They were able to get the hits at the right times to win. Obviously our bullpen and and our starters cost us quite a few games, but I’ll promise you there were more than a few games that looked lost for the Mets that their offense came back and got.

They were able to win 97 games, we won 79. That’s a HUGE difference.

Their starting pitching shouldn’t have held together as long as it did, but there are about 12 reasons to think that it could have fallen apart earlier and not stopped them (they won the division by 12).

Were they a World Series caliber team? Considering that the CARDINALS won I’d say they were more than capable.

There is no need to take it as a personal offense when he says they are better than us. THEY ARE right now.

Of course there is also no need for him, nor us to be personally offensive either.

By KC

December 5, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

Grinch:

If you don’t regard Smoltz as a #1 starter, you have pretty high standards my friend. Top 10 in all of baseball in ERA, wins, and strikeouts… what more are you looking for?

I think it’s probably fair to call Hampton a #2 caliber starter right now until he comes back and shakes off the rust. However, he’s very capable of being an ace.

I still think that you and others are far too quick to relegate Hudson to “#4 starter” status after one bad year. I say let’s reserve judgment until at least the all-star break next season before we start declaring the fate of Hudson’s career.

James-#3 starter… fair enough. I think he’s capable of more, but he’s got to prove it.

Ramirez – a #5 starter? Certainly not in terms of ability. They had him slated as the #3 starter heading into last season. I’m more comfortable with him at the bottom of the rotation, simply because of his injury proneness. With him at the bottom of the rotation… if he goes down, you simply call up Davies or Cormier to fill in as the 5th starter. No big deal. So again, I like him at the bottom of the rotation, but I think he has the ability to be a top-of-rotation kind of guy if he can stay healthy.

“Sturtze to add into the eight interchangeable bullpen buffoons:

Dude, the bullpen was awful for most of the year, but I’m not sure if you noticed that it started looking a lot better by season’s end (and I’m not even talking about Wickman). Young guys like McBride and Yates weren’t quite ready to be cast into the fire when they were, and struggled through a good portion of the season as a result. However, as the season went on, they began to acclimate to major league pitching, and the numbers bare that out: Macay McBride posted an ERA of under 2.00 from July 16th on. Tyler Yates posted a 2.70 in September as our setup man.

Also, Chad Paronto posted a very respectable 3.19 ERA of the seasons… so I wouldn’t call any of those 3 guys “buffoons”. These guys were all young and inexperienced heading into this year, but they got that experience. Unfortunately, the 2006 season was the price we paid for having to have guys learn on the job, but the good news is that, while they were AAA pitchers heading into last seasons, they are big league pitchers heading into next season.

The fact of the matter is that if we pick up a proven setup man and another lefty… we’ll be more than set in the bullpen.

BTW: Just because Sturtz was signed as a free agent, doesn’t mean he’ll be on the 25 man roster on opening day. He’ll have to win a job in the pen.

By NCBravesFan

December 5, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

KC -

Good points, all. The Braves major questions heading in to 2007 will, in my opinion, hinge on the health of key players like Chipper and Hampton, and the ability of the bullpen to preserve leads from the sixth through the eighth innings. Whether they have enough to get them back to the playoffs remains to be seen. The Mets will be a quality team in 2007 by virtue of their offense, but at this point do not have the pitching to be a championship-caliber team.

By Phat Bat Boy

December 5, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

VINDICATION. I recall suggesting that the Braves should trade LaRoche once he started playing well. I recall one of the regulars here lambasting me for that statement. Its pretty simple guys, you sell stock when the price is high, not when it is low. LaRoche’s stock is at a 52-week high. Sure, it could go higher but it could also go lower. I recall suggesting that Hudson should be dumped, again, got ridiculed. Guys who are 28-30 years old and have 3 consecutive bad years rarely turn things around. He may be a good #3 starter, but he makes #1 money (at least in ‘08). Dump him if you can now. Glad we lost on Glavine. We don’t need 1-2 year fixes with Hampton and Smoltz already looking like short-term answers. Need to invest in younger, experienced pitchers who can eat away innings. I like what I read from yesterday’s meetings. Let’s see if anything truly happens this week.

By KC

December 5, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

I wouldn’t look for any key players other than Giles to be traded this winter. With Glavine out of the picture, Atlanta’s primary focus is a proven setup man, and possibly a lefty reliever. Other than Giles, I don’t think they will be giving up any key players in return for middle relief. They might go after a leadoff man, but they won’t give up an Adam LaRoche to get one.

Also, I think Glavine was the only realistic possibility in terms of altering the rotation for the better. I wouldn’t look for any changes to the rotation (other than, of course, the fact that Hampton and Ramirez will be healthy and ready to go).

By David

December 5, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Shaun, despite your protestations the leadoff hitter for the Braves next season will be either Brian Roberts, or Chone Figgins.

You can tout all the OBP, numbers, runs scored and out avoidance theories you want. It doesn’t matter. Giles was a failure,the team will move in a different direction. I don’t put much stock in JS’s public statements. AS DOB will verify, his public staements and actions are quite different.

How will you spin it when one of the 2 previous players are acquired to bat leadoff. If you are like most other statheads you will try to pass off the utterly rediculous premise that you know more than JS about constructing a Major League Team.

They are going to acquire a new leadoff hitter,End of story.

By Matthew

December 5, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

DOB

Can you tell us anything about the Braves being suitors for Miguel batista? Here’s a link to the Kansas City Star; the reference to the Braves and Batista is toward the bottom of the article.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/baseball/mlb/kansascityroyals/16164916.htm

Thanks.

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

AJ,

Yes, the Braves have some work to do, but they improved the bullpen with the Wickman trade late in the season. Still, you are right, they could still use some improvement in the pitching department.

As far as the offense, the Braves had a better offense than the Mets—more runs, higher AVG, OBP and SLG. The Braves were worse than the Mets because the Mets were third in the NL in fewest runs allowed while the Braves were tenth. The offense shouldn’t decline much if any in 2007, and might even improve.

Offense is fine, pitching needs work. But then again, Hudson almost is certain to pitch better, Hampton could come back, James and Davies have some more experience, Ramirez is pretty good when healthy, the bullpen has some talented young arms.

The Braves have the right ingredients to contend next year. As I’ve pointed out before, one writer said next years Braves have a chance to be like last year’s Twins.

By Matthew

December 5, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

Do not trade Laroche unless we get Santana or Shields. However the rest of the deal goes down, I’m fine. Giles for Figgins is basically okay with me because of Figgins’ versatility. Andruw Jones thrown into the mix? Sure, if he’ll go and we aren’t going to get rid of Hudson’s salary. I like Huddy, but he is being overpayed. If we can give him to the Orioles for Hayden Penn, that’s fine with me. That will save the Braves money in the long run. But unless Santana or Shields is in the trade, I wouldn’t give up Laroche.

Oh and BTW DOB I told you incorreclty-the reference in the KCS article to the Rraves is in the middle of the page.

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

David,

They aren’t going to give up good players or a lot of money for a prototypical leadoff hitter. The only way they will acquire one is if he’s cheap or if he’s included in a package with a good pitcher or pitchers.

You can ignore the facts all you want, but a speedy leadoff hitter just isn’t that important to run scoring; it’s nice but isn’t a necessity to scoring a lot of runs as the Braves proved last season. Who’s in the lineup is a lot more important than where they are hitting.

I would be willing to make a friendly wager that the Braves will not give up one of their eight position players, a quality pitcher or one of their top prospects for only a leadoff hitter. If they get a leadoff hitter it will be either a cheap one, one they didn’t have to give up much to get or one that comes in a package deal for pitchers.

By KC

December 5, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

NCBravesFan:

Yes, valid questions. However, I don’t think Chippers health is much of a question… we already know he’ll get hurt! lol! Seriously though, he spent half the season on the shelf last year, and the Braves were still the best offensive team in the NL, so I’m terribly concerned about it.

As for Hampton, I don’t believe his health is much of a concern. All of the primary doctors (Dr. James Andrews and others) agree that full recovery from Tommy John surgery takes 18 months. You can however return after only 12 months without significant risk of further damage, so players always come back as close to that 12 month mark as possible. That’s why you often see guys struggle a bit in their first season back, because they have not 100% recovered from the surgery. They still experience a lot tendonitis, etc. However, in Hampton’s case, the 12 month mark came and went in September, and he’ll reach the 18 month (full recovery) mark in March. There is now a 90% success rate (no lingering problems) for ligament replacement surgery. That means, given the fact that Hampton will pass the 18 month well before opening day… statistically, there is only a 10% chance of Hampton having any elbow problems this season.

Now, anything can happen. He could be in that 10%, or he might get hurt some other way. I do want to point out however that the injury-prone label some have tried to slap on him doesn’t seem very fitting. Last year (2005) was the first season in 9 years in which Hampton failed to make at least 29 starts. Overall, it’s likely that the biggest issue facing Hampton in 2007 will be rust, not health. The good news is that he already pitched in a winter league over the past couple of months from what I understand, and will have a full spring training to get back in the swing of things. So hopefully, it won’t take him long to get back in the swing of things.

When looking at this rotation, I think Hudson is really the guy on the spot. He’s got to bounce back. I think the odds are in his (and the Braves’) favor there, but we’ll just have to wait and see.

As for the bullpen, please refer to my 9:41 post. If the Braves add a proven setup man, and maybe another lefty… the pen should be in excellent shape.

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

David,

Another example of a speedy leadoff hitter not being important: the 1999-2001 Oakland A’s. They finished in the top four in runs all three years with horrible team speed. In 2000 they finished 2nd in the league in runs scored but the team leader in steals was Randy Velarde with 9.

By ncscoots

December 5, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

Well, guess I should apologize to those who earlier this off-season suggested trading LaRoche (think I might have at the time called that “ludicrous”…oops.) So there you go. If indeed the Braves trade the guy, of course!

David, don’t think the question is whether somebody else will be batting leadoff next year. The howl that others and I have raised comes from players being touted as trade possibilities and “improvements” when those players come with no better (or worse) OBP than the Braves got out of that position last year (which you characterized as “failure”, and I agree). That, to me, does not signal an upgrade.

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 5, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

You know what I think is funny? EVERYBODY and their mother (myself included) has said “NOW THAT WE HAVE WICMAN” for a full season, everything will be OK. We were 5 games UNDER .500 when we traded for Wickman. Our record ended up being 79-83 at the end of the year. WOW! With Wickman we basically played ONE GAME OVER .500 for two months.

Does ANYBODY want to tell me why we are all so excited? (I still am, don’t get me wrong - I just don’t know why.) I think we all need to realize that having Wickman while nice (and neccessary), isn’t even CLOSE to fixing the whole pitching staff problems in general. Saves can be blown in the 7th and 8th innings as well, not just with a lead in the 9th.

We are crossing our fingers on a lot of hopes and prayers of players coming back from injury (Hampton, Boyer, Davies, Sturtze etc….) and guys with questionably ability to begin with (HoRam, Hudson, Yates, etc…). Seems like an AWFUL lot to ask for, doesn’t it.

Like I said before, I’m still confident (more like curious), that we can turn it around. The way I see it winning 100 games (if EVERYTHING goes well) or losing 100 games (if last years injury bug repeats itself) are BOTH possibilities.

Good luck, fixing this mess, JS! We need it.

Go Braves.

btw: AJ, your 9:38 post is darn near DEAD ON! Good job.

By KC

December 5, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

Tim Hudson… here you’ve got a guy that heading into last season was the second winningest active pitcher in baseball. He was hampered by a side muscle injury through most of the 04 and 05 seasons, and still manages to post a 3.50 ERA over roughly 30 starts in both season.

Now (in 2006) the 30 year old ace has his first and only poor season of his career, and everyone here is ready to dump this guy like a hot potato.

One of the popular arguments is that it’s too risky to hold onto his contract… if he doesn’t have a great year next year, we won’t be able to unload him.

Consider the following:

MLB.com: “The Rangers, on the first full day of the Winter Meetings, have reached an agreement with pitcher Vicente Padilla on a new contract. Padilla has agreed to a three-year, $33 million contract with an option for a fourth year at $12 million.”

Padilla has gone 31-29 with a 4.57 ERA over the past 3 seasons.

Please tell me again how risky it is to keep Hudson. Please tell me why it doesn’t make sense to give a 30 year old ace a chance to bounce back from the first and only poor season of his career. Tell me that in a market where Vicente Padilla is getting 11 million a season, and Adam Eaton gets 8 million… that no one would be willing to take Hudson from us if he doesn’t dominate next season. Tell me. Come on… I’m listening.

By Lew

December 5, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

NYM-Good Morning Bug Boy-You still buzzing around? Yeah. The Braves will be over .500. Will the Mets? I don’t see that Moises Alou made them that much stronger. AJ-You’re wrong, too. The Braves season last year was an injury marred aberration without a closer. That’s changed. KC-IF Horacio is still with the Braves, he will be no better than #5 in the rotation. He needs his rest so he doesn’t get injured again. About LaRoche-I doubt he will be traded without pitching in return. I agree with whoever said a leadoff hitter will only come in a packagewith pitching.

By Kevin

December 5, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

From Baltimore Sun - looks like the 0’s don’t want to deal.

Braves pursue Roberts O’s unlikely to deal him, Penn for LaRoche, Giles

Click here to find out more! By Jeff Zrebiec Sun Reporter

December 5, 2006

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — The Orioles have vowed to explore every avenue to acquire a middle-of-the-lineup bat and apparently that includes entertaining a trade offer for one of their most popular players.

According to several industry sources, the Orioles have had serious discussions about a deal that would send second baseman Brian Roberts and pitching prospect Hayden Penn to the Atlanta Braves for power-hitting first baseman Adam LaRoche and second baseman Marcus Giles.

The deal has “several hurdles,” according to a source familiar with the trade talks, with a major one being Peter Angelos’ preference to keep Roberts, who has long been a favorite of the Orioles’ owner.

As of late last night, a club source said it’s very unlikely that the deal would get approved.

Giles, 28, a year younger than Roberts, has only one year left on his contract.

Roberts is signed through 2008 and team officials have said that signing the former All-Star to an extension is one of the club’s offseason priorities.

“I’ve always said I love playing here and I’d love to see this team get back to winning. That would make me very proud,” Roberts said last night. “But I know how this business works.”

Roberts said he has heard his name mentioned in some rumors, but didn’t know any of the details.

That the Orioles would consider trading Roberts, an All-Star in 2005 and a fan favorite in Baltimore because of his gritty play, his boyish looks and his off-the-field contributions to the city, shows how desperate the Orioles are to obtain a power hitter in the middle of their lineup.

LaRoche, 27, would qualify as the young first baseman the Orioles have coveted for years. A left-handed hitter, he hit .285 last year in his third season with Atlanta to go along with 32 home runs and 90 RBIs.

Giles, a six-year veteran, was once considered one of the top young second basemen in the league, but he struggled at times last season while trying to replace Rafael Furcal in the leadoff role for Atlanta. He hit .262 with 11 home runs and 60 RBIs.

According to sources, Atlanta general manager John Schuerholz has been the aggressor on the deal as the Braves are looking for a proven leadoff hitter. At the GM meetings last month, the Braves offered Giles and pitcher Tim Hudson to the Orioles for Roberts and closer Chris Ray . The Orioles, concerned about Hudson’s health and contract, turned it down.

But talks got more serious when Atlanta informed the Orioles that it might be willing to part with LaRoche. The two sides met yesterday morning on the first day of the winter meetings to further discuss the deal.

If the Orioles parted with Roberts, who hit .286 last season with 10 homers, 55 RBIs and 36 stolen bases in returning from serious offseason arm surgery, they would likely have to add a leadoff hitter to their list of needs. Club officials aren’t confident that Corey Patterson , long criticized for his lack of plate discipline, could handle the role.

Penn, 22, who went 0-4 last year with a 15.10 ERA, is expected to get a shot this spring to make the Orioles’ rotation, though it was more likely that he would either open the season in the bullpen or at Triple-A Norfolk.

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick’s JOB),

Well,

1) The Braves were more like an 85 win team based on their runs scored and allowed (a team with as many runs scored and allowed would have typically won 85 games).

2) The pitching staff is almost certain to improve.

3) The offense shouldn’t decline significantly and could improve.

By Lew

December 5, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Nathan-Don’t you start the doom and gloom, Dude, it’s totally unwarranted. There is no way the Braves will lose 100 games. If they didn’t with Remlinger and Sosa in the mix, then it will not happen. Look at the bullpen last year. Look at it this year. Wickman has been one of the top closers for several years. Why would he deteriorate this season? Because he is fat? McBride is healthy starting the season. He wasn’t last year. Paronto had an excellent season. He was not here at the beginning last year. Yates only had one bad month last year and that coming off of surgery. He will be fine. Villarreal was coming off of surgery the beginning of last season. He has turned into a fine long reliever. JS will find those one or two pieces for the bullpen. Hampton will be fine. With a better bullpen, Smoltz should have and easily could have won 20 last season AND the Cy Young. James was not overused and will be here the entire season. Hudson, as bad as he was, STILL won 13 games for a sub .500 team. I fail to see what the problem is or the reason for all of the negativity. We are NOT in a rebuilding year. We did not lose 100 games nor have close to the worst record in MLB last year. Don’t act like we did.

By DCarp23

December 5, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

I knew Brian Roberts was an all-star in 2005, but he also brings gritty play and boyish good looks to the table? How could the Braves NOT want him?

I just found that line from the O’s beat writer to be a little odd.

By A.J.

December 5, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Look, I am an optimist. I am ever a believer in what the Braves can do. But right now we are not a very serious World Series contender. We need work.

You can say all you want about the Braves offense being so good, but you forget, there were long stretches in this season where the Braves could not score at all. They got better in the second half, but only thanks in large part to 5 blowouts in July.

This offense went a whole month June 1-July 1 in which they scored more than 5 runs TWICE. The Braves pitching in June was 21st in the ML, the Braves hitting 30th. Even worse, the 29th place team had 107 runs, we had 94. The next worst team had 14% more runs than we did.

In that month, and at various times throughout the season (seemingly most often in the times we most needed a win), our hitting made mediocre pitchers look like Cy Young winners, and that is nothing new for us.

How does this happen? We finished last season 7th in the ML in strikeouts. Only one team in the top 13 made it to the playoffs. You know who else finished up there? The Phillies (#4) who led the NL in runs, but finished 12 games behind the Mets.

Strikeouts lose close games. Strikeouts make slumps.

Any team that can finish last in the league in runs for a whole month, cannot say that their offense is set.

Do we have the talent to hit? Yes. Is the pitching worse than the hitting? Yes. But we are horribly inconsistant with the bats and will continue to lose close games even if the pitching improves until we can hit constistantly.

By TN-MAN

December 5, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

DOB- Day 2 of the Winter Meetings seem to be pretty calm so far. Are you hearing any new rumblings of deals that may be close?

By Lew

December 5, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

AJ-What you say is somewhat true. However, you are really isolating one month out of a season. You also did not mention that June happened to coincide with McCann’s getting knocked into tomorrow and missing considerable time. You mention close games and the Braves were God awful in one run games, for sure. What you don’t mention, however, is the fact that we came back in MANY of those games, only to have the bullpen blow the lead yet again. Shaun (or was it KC0 was right-we could easily have won 85 games last year. If we had, we would not even be having this discussion.

By geauxbraves2000

December 5, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

I have figured out a way to get the Braves out:

1) Throw a rookie pitcher at them or

2) Throw a 1-10 pitcher w/an era in the neighborhood of 8 or

3) Allow them to load the bases with no one out.

Surely the front office have noticed these situations and are prepared to correct them. Aggressiveness at the plate is good at times, but over aggressiveness loses games. IMHO, all of this goes back to Terry Pendleton (who is one of my favorite all time Braves).

Also, I think trading LaRoche would be a huge mistake.

Geaux Braves!!

By KC

December 5, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Nathan:

Not having Wickman the first half of the season was only one of the reasons we lost (though early on it was a huge reason). We lost last season because we didn’t have Hampton all year, because Hudson struggled for most of the season, because we didn’t have any middle relief for most of the season, and because we only had guys like Bob Wickman, Chuck James, and Horacio Ramirez (due to injuries) for half the season.

The answer to your question as to why anyone should be optimistic is this: Wicky being on the roster on opening day won’t be the only thing different about the Braves team we’ll see in 2007 vs. the team that took the field most of last year.

First of all, the bullpen already got quite a bit better by the end of the season than it had been most of 2006. That came with the maturation of McBride and Yates who were cast into the fire earlier in the season before they were ready. They’re ready now. They proved that by finishing the season strong. McBride had an ERA of under 2.00 from July 16th on, and Yates posted a 2.70 in Sept. as Atlanta’s setup man after Baez went down. Those 2 guys were both much better pitchers by the time September rolled around than they were just a few months earlier. They figure to be solid contributors next season.

I feel good about the bullpen because I like several of the pieces we already have (Wickman, Yates, McBride, Paronto… even Villareal did a decent job in the long relief role), and I’m confident that JS won’t rest until the Braves have a proven setup man, and probably another quality lefty. Between what we’ve got, and what I’m positive we’ll be getting… I think the bullpen will look a helluva lot better than it did most of last season.

The fact that we’re getting Hampton back is no small thing. Contrary to popular belief, his health isn’t really a concern (please see my 10:39 post), and he was one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in baseball between the all-star break in 04’ and the when he went on the DL in 05’. Here are some numbers on Hampton: • As a Brave (until he went on DL last year): 31-18, 3.74 ERA. • Since all-star break in 03’: 26-13, 3.44 ERA • Since all-star break in 04’ 13-2, 2.54 ERA The longer he had to put Colorado out of his head (and his mechanics), the better he got. As soon as he shakes off the rust, we’ll have another top-of-rotation guy back on the starting staff.

Additionally, I would be really surprised if Hudson doesn’t better last year’s performance (considerably). There are several reasons for my optimism there, which I’ve been over 100 times and won’t repeat them here.

The rotation will be much better, the bullpen will be much better, and our offense is already pretty darn good. That’s why I’m looking forward to 07’.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

A.J. did you even watch the games last year? The offence was not the problem…I dont rember how many time me and nathan were posting our joy after the bats bailed out the pitching only to have the bullpen blow it. Our offence scored the 5th most runs in MLB this past season. We need pitching.

By A.J.

December 5, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

In other news, I love Winter Meetings.

I think the Braves should sign Miguel Batista to a deal.

Why? Miguel Batista thrives on odd years. His ERA in odd years from 2001 on are 3.36, 3.54, and 4.10, a total ERA of 3.58. While in evens he was 4.29, 4.80, and 4.58, a total of 4.56.

So we sign him to a three year deal and get 2 good years, one mediocre.

Just something I thought was funny.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

hey larry check this out…(this means you DOB)

courtesy Fox Sports

Marcus Giles - #22 - Second Base - 5’8” - 175lbs News: The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Larry O’Brien still believes a Marcus Giles-for-Scott Linebrink trade is a possibility. Impact: The Giles-to-San Diego rumors have definitely quieted over the last few weeks. The Padres still need a second baseman, but they seemed more interested in going the free agent route with Craig Counsell and later Tony Graffanino. Ronnie Belliard, Mark Loretta and Graffanino are still out there, and Belliard and Loretta could be had cheaper than expected, making it more difficult to justify surrendering Linebrink for Giles. (Sun. Dec 3, 2006)

By JasonInMaine

December 5, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

KC,

You bring a lot of good points to the blog. You are one of the handful that are are enjoyable to interact with. But, admit it; you are really Tim Hudson, aren’t you? (:

Regards, Jason

By A.J.

December 5, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

We could have won 85, but we didn’t. Calculating how many games we should have won seems all well and good, but the W column still says 79.

And if you take out those 5 games in July I guarantee that our suggested win total would have been at least a game or two lower (that’s 55 of our 849 runs).

Sure the bullpen and at times starters killed us, but they still aren’t better (other than Wickman). Yes, we are working to make them better, but they aren’t better yet and you can’t just bank that they will be.

Sure, McCann’s injury killed us, but injuries happen, and at this point you have to consider the Braves injury prone. The Mets and Yankees both had major injuries throughout the year as well. And still won 97 games.

I hate it as much as you, but at some point injuries become a copout. Chipper’s getting old, Smoltz is getting old and has had injury problems before, Hudson has had health problems the last few years, and Hampton is an unknown commodity at this point after missing almost 2 whole seasons, plus Wickman is getting old. Even Andruw was hurt some last season. People who have had injuries before are prone to have injuries again. You just can’t plan like we’re going to be completely healthy all year.

By A.J.

December 5, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

Billy-

The Braves offense did almost bail us out many times only to have it blown, but they are still inconsistant. They are still very suspect when a good pitcher pitches well. They are very suspect at times when a mediocre pitcher pitches well. I watched or listened to probably 125 games or more last season.

I know what they are capable of, I know what they have done. And down by 10 I still get excited when we get a two out basehit in the bottom of the ninth.

But can you tell me that all of the things GeauxBraves said are not quite indicitive of last season. Rookies, journeymen and loaded bases killed Braves batters.

As bad as the pitching was there were still plenty of chances to win games that we didn’t (and I’m not talking about down 10 in the ninth).

Yes the bullpen was atrocious (and cost Smoltz a Cy Young), yes starting was inconsistant. Yes they both are our biggest concerns. But the hitting is still inconsistant, and just like the bullpen squandered good hitting, there were plenty of times (though not as many) when the hitting squandered what good pitching we did get.

Yes we could have won 85. We absolutely should have won at least 85, but the offense is not without fault. It is very streaky and in the bad streaks we don’t stand a chance.

By flbravesgirl

December 5, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Greetings, fellow bloggers! Looks like I missed a lot of activity here and unfortunately not much activity by the Braves ( Sturtze? Not exactly thrilling news). I’d be disappointed about Glavine but the fact that he made his decision before even giving the Braves a chance makes me determined not to waste any regrets on him.

I’m not too keen on trading LaRoche just when he seems to be living up to his potential. We’d have to get someone really good in exchange for me to be OK with it.

AJ, that’s really weird about Batista and the odd/even years. (Perhaps I should say it’s really odd?)

By A.J.

December 5, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

I have to go write a 20 pg research paper (and I’m angry at all of you for distracting me from it, lol).

I think we have a good team, we just have holes. Even in our good offensive attack there are holes and if we can fill those we should.

I think we could make the playoffs right now, esp if the Mets don’t sign an ace, but we should still be honest about how even our good parts can get better or they won’t.

When the season starts I will expect us to win every game, but the offseason is the time to prepare for the season by being critical. You have to consider all the possible problems or when one pops up, you’re screwed.

I think that’s what JS is doing, and we will be better at the end of this week than we are now, and better at in April than we were in September.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

AJ,

With out they did…but not as much as bad pitching did. Point blank. We can win with mediocre hitting and dominat pitching…proved time and time agian by the Braves.

By ncscoots

December 5, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

A.J., I won’t disagree with you that the offense disappeared at times in the past season. However, I don’t know if that fact marks them as “inconsistent”. NO team goes through the season without slumping offensively at some point, and most will hit above their heads at some point, too. I don’t know if that is so much inconsistency as it is the nature of the game itself. That’s the reason I always look at baseball as a classic example of regression to the mean…Braves weren’t as bad as they looked in June, nor as thunderous as they looked in that torrid July stretch, but overall it was an excellent offensive lineup. That’s not to say individual players don’t need to improve in specific areas, but I think the TEAM was probably as consistent as is possible over a 6-month period.

By tkg

December 5, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

Seeing that story out of Baltimore about a LaRoche and Giles swap for Roberts and Penn makes you wonder if there are some legs to that Hudson for R. Sexson story with the Mariners we heard about a couple of days ago.

Dealing with Baltimore is like dealing with the Kremlin, however. Just when you think a deal is in place the man wearing black comes in and knifes it down. Angelos is the worst owner in MLB, possibly in all of pro sports, considering what he has done to that franchise.

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

A.J.,

The Braves were exceptionally unfortunate in close games in 2006. That’s not likely to happen again in ‘07. Some of it had to do with bullpen, some of it because the ball just didn’t bounce their way, so to speak.

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

ncscoots,

Excellent point—regression to the mean. That’s also why the Braves aren’t likely to be so unfortunate in close games in ‘07 as they were in ‘06.

By TennesseePaul

December 5, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

These rumors are very interesting. I’m surprised, to say the least, of the LaRoche rumors. I’ll admit I wasn’t a big LaRoche Booster prior to last season, but he earned the support he now has. He did a fabulous job last season. Maybe this is JS striking while the iron is hot. LaRoche’s value is certianly much higher than in previous years.

Honestly I can’t wait to see what’ll happen. We’re still going to have all the staples in this lineup, Smoltz, Andruw, Chipper, Francoeur, McCann, Wickman and so forth. Moving the other parts around doesn’t bother me that much. Payroll flexibility might come into play when AJ is a FA. maybe that is part of the reasoning behind all this. Clear some room in areas of strength and strength the pitching with cheaper young guys then sign AJ to a front loaded contract so that when all the young guys are earning more we can manage that as well. Knowing JS is doing the moving is nice.

The only thing I could say I wish was different, or would hurry up and happen, is… that it was opening day already!

GO BRAVES!!

By Joe

December 5, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

That is why the Braves should trade LaRoche, he had a career year and the Braves fans do not like him. Once he is traded for a relief pitcher or lead off left fielder or centerfielder, if Andruw Jones is moved, the Braves should then trade Marcus Giles to the Cardinals for Chris Duncan, who is stuck behind Pujos at 1st base. The Cardinals who go through 2nd basemen, like the Cubs went through 3rd basemen until they got Aramis Ramirez, could help convince them to make the deal.

By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)

December 5, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

Lew…..

SIMMA DON NA!

No doom and gloom here. Just stating facts. Shaun you mention that based on the “stats” we should’ve been “more like an 85 win team”?

YIPPY! Really? 85 wins. That’s somthing to get excited about?

Listen. ALL ALONG, I’ve been saying I’d be OK with getting younger and more athletic. I’m willing to suffer through a couple more years like last to get to where we need to be. If JS was/is trying to “make a run” at the WS this year. Then he COMPLETELY dropped the ball by not doing whatever he could’ve done to get Glavine. Because ANYBODY that thinks this team has a better shot with Hudson over Glavine is sadly mistaking. (I hope Hudson proves me wrong - but I seriously doubt he will.) I read somewhere today where Hudson says “wherever” I pitch next year they are going to be HAPPY TO HAVE ME. Or somthing to that effect. DON’T TALK ABOUT IT. DO IT! Give me some glimmer of reason to BELIEVE YOU, when you spout off like that.

I’m still on board people. I just get a “kick” out of everybody mouthing off to NYM or whatever the troll’s moniker is. About how the Mets are going down and the Braves are gonna win the division. WE WEREN’T A .500 TEAM LAST YEAR! But now everybody is supposed to believe that we’re gonna overtake the Mets, let alone stomp the Phillies and Marlins (Nationals don’t count)?

All I’m saying is that YES. We could win the division if EVERYTHING goes our way. YES. We have a lot of talent. We had talent last year too. But injuries and LOOOOOOOOOONG slumps do happen. YES. If those mentioned players recovering from injuries (Hampton, Davies, Sturtze, Boyer and even Chipper) aren’t healthy and “back to form”, last year might be closer to the rule, rather than the exception. NOT TO MENTION we are one Smoltz injury away from having a HORRIBLE rotation.

I’m not PREDICTING any of this. I’m just saying that MLB isn’t going crown us NL EAST champions in December (two months after going 79-83). The Mets are the NL EAST Champions UNTIL WE DETHRONE THEM. Period.

By rammerjammer

December 5, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

I’ve been pushing for a LaRoche-for-pitching trade for some time. He’s good, relatively cheap and very attractive to other teams, so we can get what we need - more pitching - while still having some 1b alternatives. Thorman is one. So is Daryle Ward, who played more than 100 games there in 2005. And there’s always the possibility of Salty in a couple of years.

Smart move, JS.

By Kevin

December 5, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

I too hope LaRoche stays, especially since he’s finally had the chance and shown that he can hit leftys and rightys. I think it’s too bad for Giles that Cox stuck him in the leadoff spot where he was doomed to fail. Put him at 2 (I know, I know) or at like 7 and he’s well worth the money someone will throw at him.

This market has shown that the way you prevent yourself from having to overpay to fill a need is to resign your young players before they reach the ends of their current deals. Why don’t we go ahead and lock up LaRoche for 5 years, McCann and Francouer for 5 years, same for Chuck Smith? Let them become the next Chipper, Andrew and Smoltz, and fill in the gaps with younger guys as needed?

If we have to live with a small market budget we have to operate like a small market team, and that’s what they do.

By Salty55

December 5, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

KC I don’t post enough to think someone wouldn’t beat me to the punch on the Padilla signing. The fact is, each passing day makes Hudson’s $$ look less prohibitive. In fact, it’s only an issue (IMO) if that money is used on Andruw.

Even Andruw’s (presumed) asking price looks more reasonable (with home town discount factored in) in light of Pierre’s and Matthew’s signings…sheesh! Think about, if AJ were to bite on $16-$17/year over 4-5 years (5th year…risky?) that is only $2-$3 over current…and doable if Hudson goes next year. If Hudson is simply solid (winning record/ERA slides down a bit), his $13 million won’t be an obstacle at all.

Oh…and I am sqarely with you on HoRam…he really needs to stay…again in my very humble opinion. You are leading the HoRam parade, right?

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY),

Yes, 85 wins would have been exciting because the Braves would have been in the Wild Card race until the end.

Take into account there pitching is almost certain to be better and the offense isn’t likely to decline and there’s a good possibility of at least 90 wins.

And 85 wins is not some complex statistical formula. It’s what a typical team that scored 849 runs and allowed 805 would typically do over 162 games.

By Joe

December 5, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

The Braves are not a small market team. Schuerholz is just “penny wise and dollar foolish”. If they went into last season with an established closer, they would have made it to the wildcard. And I am talking about Bob Wickman, who is not one of the elite closers in the game. They may have even won the World Series. The Cardinals, a 500 club all year got there and the Mets are spooked by the Braves.

By Matthew

December 5, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

Kevin:

Who is Chuck Smith? When did we sign him, and is he a setup man?

Just picking at you.

I have rooted for Laroche all along because he has overcome a very difficult disorder (ADD). He has had a very successful year, and I’d love to see him stay in ATL. That being said, if pitching is our priority and we re-sign Ward, then I guess Laroche becomes expendable. What I wish is that Chipper, Andruw, and Hampton would rework their deals to free up more money. Chipper has already done so, Hampton offered to do so to keep Hudson, but I doubt Andruw would. I think he is a goner after this year, so if the BoSox or Angels would be places he’d consider, trade him and free up some more payroll to lock up McCann, Francoeur, and Chucky James.

By KC

December 5, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

JasonInMaine:

I’m not Tim Hudson, but I wish I were… on payday, anyway. LOL!

I know people here probably think I’m a huge Tim Hudson fan, have a framed picture of him over my fire place, etc… But really, since I got that court order to stay 500 yards away from his house, I’ve kind of soured on Huddy.

Seriously, I’m not a Huddy fan any more than I am a fan of Smoltz, McCann, LaRoche, or anyone else in a Braves uniform. The reason I spend so much time on Hudson is that people are constantly saying things about him are just plain false, or at that very least, that I disagree with… and I’m just a little too opinionated to leave it alone I suppose.

People continually say things like “Hudson’s been nothing but mediocre since he got here”). The fact is, as I’ve stated many times, that Hudson was hampered by injury in 04 and 05, but was still very good (among the top 15% of all MLB starters both seasons). He might not have been “very good” by Tim Hudson standards, but by MLB standards, he was still one of the top starters in the game. It is the constant mischaracterization of his 04 and 05 seasons that is hardest for me to swallow.

As for those who want to trade Hudson to the first available taker for a couple bats and a bucket of balls… I understand where they’re coming from, but I respectfully disagree. He had a lousy year. Will he repeat his substandard 06’ performance? Who knows… but it doesn’t seem likely to me. He’s healthy, still in his prime, and hasn’t lost any of his stuff. And again, history is on his side in light of similar scenarios with top-tier pitchers in years past. If he bounces back to any reasonable degree, he’ll be a bargain. I mean, the Rangers owe Vicente Padilla 1 million more over the next 3 years than the Braves owe Hudson. I think his 06’ struggles are too fresh in people’s minds, and that’s all they can picture from Hudson. But it doesn’t make much sense to unload him without a bonafide top-tier starter to replace him. Anyway, that’s where I stand… as though you didn’t already know. =)

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY),

I’m not claiming the Braves are going to win the division. I’ll wait to see what the Mets and Phillies do. But I do think we can reasonably expect them to win around 85-90 games, barring any major injuries to key players.

The Braves were basically an 85-win team last season. They are likely to improve in ‘07.

By NYM

December 5, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

Nathan, you need to be careful when mentioning the Mets while discussing baseball with Lew. He’s real sensitive about that. In fact even having your own opinion could be dangerous. Just be careful.

By Joe

December 5, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

The Braves already blew it for this year. They could have gotten Sheffield from the Yankees, for a few mid level prospects, then trade Andruw Jones to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp and two high level pitching prospects.

By NCBravesFan

December 5, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

I think any deal for LaRoche is going to have to knock JS’s socks off to get done. He’s so good and still so cheap - I think the Braves would have to view the deal as clearly upgrading the team to get it done. The other thing for me is that if you deal both Giles and LaRoche, seems to me you would have to get a proven bat in return in there somewhere.

By KC

December 5, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Salty55:

Yes, that’s the good news (the only good news) for the Braves in this market… the stock of both Hudson and Hampton just appreciated. A year ago it appeared that they were both very highly paid pitchers, but if Padilla’s getting 11 million a year and Adam Eaton’s getting 8… Hudson and Hampton could both wind up being terrific bargains over the next 2-3 seasons.

If Hudson’s trade value is down right now, it doesn’t makes zero sense to deal him right now. If he bounces back next season, then you have a choice: keep a top-tier in your rotation at what now appears to be a reasonable price (13m), or trade him for a king’s ransom. If he flops next year, dump him off to the first willing taker. Now, when I say “flop”, I mean if he puts up numbers similar to the ones V.Padilla just got paid 33 million dollars for.

By Shaun

December 5, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Joe,

Really? You must have some info nobody else does. And would it have been wise to get Sheffield, an expensive, old player with his best years behind him?

By Kevin

December 5, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

By “Chuck Smith” I meant “Chuck James”, although former Falcons player Chuck Smith might make a good pinch runner. Think anyone would try to turn a DP with him barreling down? :)

Sorry about that.

Anyway, I hear Sid Bream is still available.

By JasonInMaine

December 5, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

KC,

I see your point. I don’t necessarily agree (unless the Braves payroll ever increases in this market), but can certainly see your point. I knew you wouldn’t take offense, so I thought I would joke with ya (: Have a good day.

Regards, Jason

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

Joe,

Take that crap here: http://www.forums.mlb.com/ml-braves

Next thing your gonna tell us is that you have sources in the know, just like the idiots on the link I posted right?

By KC

December 5, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Nathan:

You’re right… how could I have been so foolish??? The Braves suck. They’ve got no chance next year. I mean, just look at this rotation…

• Smoltz –top 10 in ERA, wins, and strikeouts… sure, but he’s old. • Mike Hampton… sure, he was one of the best pitchers in baseball when he went down , and statistically there’s only a 10% that he’ll have any lingering problems whatsoever from the Tommy John surgery, still… that 10% chance that all will go wrong still bothers me. • Tim Hudson… yes, he was top 15% in ERA every season (except for his sophomore season), and was the 2nd winningest active pitcher in baseball heading into last season, but after seeing him this year… he’s finished. Sure, his stuff is still there, he’s only 30, and healthy, but what are the chances that he “just had a bad year”? No way man!! He should go ahead and turn in that Jiffy Lube application. • Chuck James… aaaah, he looked great last year, but he’s still too young, unproven. • Horacio Ramirez… he’s injury prone, and if he goes down, we’ve only got 4 other options for a 5th starter. Bad news!

Oh and that bullpen… • Bob Wickman… he’s old and fat. Never mind that he was nearly perfect last season.
• Tyler Yates and Macay McBride… I don’t want to hear any excuses about 2006 being their rookie seasons. I don’t care if they were learning on the job and finished the season extremely well. Did you see how they struggled in their first few months in the big leagues? They’re bums. • Chad Paronto… yeah, 3.19 is a good ERA, but… he’s fat too! • Villareal… we don’t need no stinkin’ long reliever! • And sure JS has said his #1 priority is to strengthen the pitching staff, which almost surely means a proven setup man and another lefty reliever, but I’m not sure JS is GM enough to get it done.

As for the offense… yes, I know the Braves scored the 2nd most runs in the NL (finishing ever so slightly behind the Phils who play in a big-time hitter’s park)… they were inconsistent, and don’t have a leadoff man.

Overall, I just don’t see any reason to be optimistic. In fact, I don’t even know why I’m wasting my time talking about such a pathetic collection of wannabe atheletes!!!!!!

By Lew

December 5, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

Nathan-I think you know by now that I don’t begrudge you an opinion, despite what that mosquito larva says to the contrary. I just don’t think the Mets can do it again. I like our pitching staff, questions and all better than I like the Mets’ rotation. Actually, at this point they don’t have a rotation-just a couple of 41 year olds and several vague hopefuls. Certain buzzing bores who like the Mets just can’t seem to grasp that fact. Talk about someone intolerant of other’s opinions. Get over yourself bug boy (no Nathan, not you).

By Joe

December 5, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

That would just be to replace Andruw Jones bat in the line-up so they could trade him before his walk year and fill needs in rotation, set-up, leadoff hitter and centerfielder, since Sheffield would have ended up in leftfield.

By Phat Bat Boy

December 5, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

DOB, I heard you earlier on 790The Zone about the possibility of trading LaRoche & Giles to an NL team for a guy who will set-up this year and close the following year. I got the impression you were referring to a current closer. Brad Lidge or did I over shoot?

By Lew

December 5, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

KC-Dude-The sarcasm. I love it.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

DOB MIA today…hope he’s got a scoop for us.

By NYM

December 5, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

See what I mean Nathan…..He’s so vicious.

By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)

December 5, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

KC

Go find yourelf a case of Viagra and a lady friend and take out some of your agression elsewhere…..PLEASE.

You apparently aren’t interested in READING my entire posts and thinking before you type. I have confindence (optimism) that this year will be better than last (how can it not?). I’m just not willing to BET THE FARM that their going to DOMINATE. THAT IS MY OPINION, WHICH I AM ENTITLED TO. Just the same as you are entitled to yours. I respect that. You obviously DON’T respect anybody’s opinions and concerns. Hell, dude if you’re that confident, buy me and you a coupole of tickets to Vegas and I’ll drain my savings and retirement and we’ll go make a mint!

AT NO POINT DID I EVER SAY THIS TEAM SUCKS. NOR DID IT MENTION A WORD ABOUT WICKMAN’S WEIGHT OR AGE. Those are your words man, NOT MINE!

Sounds like you’ve got some concerns of your own abou this team. You better make it TWO BOTTLES OF VIAGRA - you got a lotta negative energy to work off.

ALL I stated is that we have a LOT of question marks.

You talk about McBride and Yates. YUP. They look good to me. But so did Reitsma in July and August of 2005. HOW’D HE DO LAST YEAR? Don’t give me the injury crap either. BOTH of those guys could get hurt. Couldn’t they?

Hampton MIGHT win 20 games. Then again he might not be good AT ALL and lose 20 games (because you KNOW Bobby would NEVER take him out of the rotation if he was struggling). THEN AGAIN. His elbow could explode in Spring Training, couldn’t it?

My point, you ask?….WE DON’T KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT FROM HAMPTON…AT ALL!

Hudson? Apparently ALL OTHER GM’s aren’t as confident in him as YOU ARE. Because with the way pitchers salaries are going, if Hudson was a SURE THING to have a good year, EVERY TEAM would be JUMPING to get him from us.

Smoltz is great. NO complaints, whatsoever. But he is OLD. That body could break down at ANY MINUTE. If he’s down for ANY length of time, well if I have to explain to you HIS importance in the rotation, your a bigger moron than you appear to be by not reading EVERYTHING in the post, before judging.

Chipper? Again, do I have to state the obvious that we DON’T HAVE A FRICKIN CLUE WHAT TO EXPECT FROM HIM?

Hell, Chuck James might even have a sophomore slump. Did you ever think of that? Or should Cooperstown get his bust ready?

All I was saying, was that I didn’t see why everybody was SO QUICK to assume we are gonna overtake the Mets next year. Then again WE VERY WELL MIGHT. Unfortunately if we don’t catch the Marlins and Phillies as well, we may leapfrog the Mets to finish in third place. :)

Or did you forget that the Marlins were almost as good as we were with what? A 15 million dollar payroll. Not to mention I’d take their rotation over ours ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. They phillies have the MVP of the league (no matter what Pujols says), they will be a factor next year. Remember, they got BETTER after they traded Lidle and Abreu? We picked up Wickman and TREADED WATER for two more months.

I’m not saying were going to win OR lose. I’m saying next year is not as much of a SURE THING as in the mid 90’s when we had 3 HOF pitchers in a five man rotation was. WE KNEW EVERY SPRING WE WERE GONNA BE IN IT as long as those guys were healthy all year.

Now, who the hell knows? I like our youth (we could use more of it, IMO), but the Mets have the money. You all forget that even IF you all are right that they can’t “repeat” last year. You think Minaya is gonna sit on his A$$ and not make moves at the deadline. With their deep pockets, not to mention they have just as much GOOD YOUNG talent mixed in with the old on offence, they cannont be counted on to drop off of the face of the earth next year.

Was that CLEAR ENOUGH for you. Or do you want me to use crayons, next time?

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 5, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Hey everyone…

Just a few thoughts from some postings earlier.

• Figgins would definitely look nice in that red home alternate jersey. I watched him and the California/Anaheim/LA/Southern Cal/Pacific time zone Angels in June 2005 against us at home and was impressed. If we have to ship LaRoche there to get him, I agree with the sentiment of others that we need to also need to shoehorn a solid pitcher in addition to Figgins (it’d really be sweet to get Santana, but I know they really don’t want to give him up).

• The trade to the O’s for Brian Roberts and Penn - while it sounds interesting, Angelos won’t let Roberts go. Don’t see that one happening.

• Didn’t have a complaint about Sheffield while he was here. The guy played 39 games last year. Yes, 39. No thanks.

• I like our chances next year. 2006 was a season where everything went the Mets way and everything went against us. It happens, not whining about it, not crying about it. That’s the breaks. Will the Mets continue to see that kind of luck and will we continue to see the kind of injuries and bad breaks in 2007? Not sure, but the odds are that things will be a bit more even. The instability of the bullpen this past season spilled over into every aspect of the game. I think that put more pressure on the starters not knowing exactly what would happen as soon as the ball got handed over to BC. The offense felt the pressure knowing that a lead of 1-8 runs may not be enough. I think having Wickman next year is much bigger than some people realize. Sure, we have more work to do for improvement in middle relief and we need another arm on the back end of the rotation depending on how things shake out, but I think the questions that this team had when they broke camp last spring about their pitching staff will largely be resolved.

By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)

December 5, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

KC

just have to comment on your comment (btw, myself being a sarcast person as well, I do appreciate your sarcasm). Anyhow you said:

As for the offense… yes, I know the Braves scored the 2nd most runs in the NL (finishing ever so slightly behind the Phils who play in a big-time hitter’s park)… they were inconsistent, and don’t have a leadoff man.

Did it ever occur to you guys that it doesn’t neccessarily matter whether you win 10-9 or 2-1. YES. Our offense put up “big” numbers. Woopy! We STILL LOST 4 MORE GAMES THAN WE WON!

If I recall, we “outscored” the Twins in the 91 WS as well. Along with the outscoring the Blue Jays in the 1992 WS. Yes, those are short series, but saying we “outscored them” doesn’t tell the whole story, does it? We won A LOT OF BLOWOUT games last year. And we lost a LOT of one run games last year. I’ll take consistancy, smart hitting and CLUTCH hitting over big INFLATED numbers in a meaninless AB late in the game down by 7 runs.

What does a guy do late in the game with the game on the line? McCann seams to be pretty good at that. As does Francoeur (now if we could just get him to come through in ONE of the other 3 AB’s in each game, we’d be on to somthing! LOL!).

Somebody earlier today (not sure who) was commenting on the offense putting up good “number” but not being “good” offensively. I’m not saying they were COMPLETELY correct. But when you are facing GOOD PITCHERS (like in the playoffs), you CAN’T continue to give AB’s away. I’m not even talking about taking walks. To hell with the walks. Just “wait for your pitch”, as opposed to swinging at the first low and away slider you see. Move runners along. OUR PITCHERS WERE HORRIBLE at sacrifice bunting last year. Maybe that’s what EVERY team deals with. But for a decade we got used to seeing Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz RARELY (if ever) fail to get those bunts down. Strange how the Mets seemed to capitalize on those “situations” with a guy like Glavine leading the way? Hmmmmmm.

That’s what I’m talking about. Not JUST homeruns. Yeah. They’re neat and all. But really, how many HR’s are really hit in the playoffs as compared to the regular season? (unless you are a career loser and facing the Braves. ala: Leyritz, Sprague, Ausmus, etc….)

Let me put it this way. With some good luck (and the talent that is there or appears to be there), our pitching staff SHOULD be MUCH improved next year. However, the offense to can ALSO IMPROVE, and I’m not neccessarily talking about scoring MORE runs. Just spreading them out consistantly and coming up with the BIG hit when we need it most. NOT when we already have an 8 run lead. Galarraga was the KING of the Garbage time HR. Before 2005, so was Andruw. Now Francoeur, McCann and Chipper those guys know how to concentrate when it’s on the line. It’s the TRUELY great players that can concentrate like that on every AB (Pujols), but those guys are far and few between.

By TN-MAN

December 5, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Anyone know where DOB is today? He hadn’t made a post all day, something must be brewing.

By Matthew

December 5, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Haven’t seen DOB post today either. Maybe he has some news for us, or maybe he’s taking a break from the stress of the winter meetings with a nap. Who knows?

DOB, we look forward to hearing from you.

By Glass Half Full

December 5, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

Sometimes I wish JS was as loose-lipped as some of the other GMs. The silence and lack of substantial rumors (is there a such thing?) is maddening.

By Phat Bat Boy

December 5, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Run production is very misleading. Especially in the case of that streak when we scored over 10 runs in 4 consecutive games (I think it was in 4 games). Anyway, if you win a game 10-3 and then lose the next game 3-1, it will certainly make it look like you have no offensive concerns. I agree that the bullpen needs to remain the priority. But when you consider that Chipper isn’t likely to ever play 150 games again, that catchers must have periodic rest and McCann was our most consistent offensive player throughout the year and that Andruw is likely playing his last set of 160 games for this club, there is no reason NOT to try to improve the offense now.

Hudson to Yankees for Proctor and a prospect?

Hudson to Cubs for Jacque Jones?

By KC

December 5, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

NATHAN:

“Did it ever occur to you guys that it doesn’t necessarily matter whether you win 10-9 or 2-1. YES. Our offense put up “big” numbers. Woopy! We STILL LOST 4 MORE GAMES THAN WE WON!”

So that’s how it works!!! Damnit!! If only I had known that before placing those office-pool wagers!!!!!

Yes Nathan, believe it or not, it has actually occurred to me that the object of the game is to make sure you score more than the other team and that the total number of combined runs is irrelevant.

That’s my point exactly. We scored plenty of runs… or what would have been plenty of runs if certain pitchers had been healthy and if others had done their job. We had a pitching problem this season year. But it seems to me that the Braves pitching looks a helluva lot better heading into next year than it looked throughout most of this season.

Rookies like Yates and McBride have started to mature. Wickman will be down in the pen all season long. We’ve got a couple other decent role players in the pen (Paronto-ground ball outs, Villareal-long relief). Our rotation features a seasoned, but still top-notch ace in Smoltzy… another legit #1 caliber guy in Hampton, who should be completely healthy and recovered from the surgery and ready to go this spring… Two talented young lefties in James and Ramirez, and 30 year old, 7 year ace in Tim Hudson, who is coming off a bad season, but certainly more than capable of contributing in a big way. Take into account that JS’s purpose in life right now is to find a proven setup man… and I think Atlanta’s pitching looks far better than that of most teams heading into 07’. Add a potent Atlanta offense, their solid defense, and 06’ should be a distant memory soon enough.

BTW: You’re a good man. I was hoping that you would take the sarcasm in the good-natured light in which it was offered, and you did. It’s always more fun to chat with people who aren’t too easily offended. Kudos.

By BB FAN

December 5, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Please tell me that the Braves are not seriously considering trading Giles and LaRoche to Baltimore for Penn and Brian Roberts. I have seen this rumor from multiple sources. I’m hoping it’s just a rumor.

Roberts would be an improvement over Giles in the lead off role, but I still don’t think it would be a fair trade for the Braves. Penn has not impressed me at all so far. And laRoche should be able to get the Braves a much better pitching prospect than Penn. LaRoche will only make ~ 2.5 mill and is coming off a .285/32/90 season in which is played gold glove caliber defense. Now if they put Loewen in the deal instead of Penn, then I would say the Braves should consider it. He looks like he’ll be a very good pitcher.

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 5, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Nathan, I see your point. I could go the rest of my life without seeing or hearing the names Leyritz or Sprague.

By 22oz

December 5, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

Any bloggers from orlando? Go wake up DOB from his nap. we’re dying out here! We need a new blog to forget about this Glavine debacle.

By BB FAN

December 5, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Forgot to add: Or is Hayden Penn that good?

By KC

December 5, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

NATHAN:

I just now noticed the following:

“Go find yourelf a case of Viagra and a lady friend and take out some of your agression elsewhere…..PLEASE.”

“You apparently aren’t interested in READING my entire posts and thinking before you type. I have confindence (optimism) that this year will be better than last (how can it not?). I’m just not willing to BET THE FARM that their going to DOMINATE. THAT IS MY OPINION, WHICH I AM ENTITLED TO. Just the same as you are entitled to yours. I respect that. You obviously DON’T respect anybody’s opinions and concerns.”

Man, apparently my earlier post did not come across as a good-natured poke. I apologize if I seemed overly condescending or offensive. I was just answering your “I don’t see any reason to be excited” (paraphrasing) comment while poking a little fun. I sarcastically flipped my viewpoints upside-down and restated everything in the negative just to make a point. I wasn’t suggesting that what I wrote in that post represented all your views exactly. Anyway, sorry to offend.

By NYM

December 5, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB I don’t suppose you can give me any info on the Mets. I’m sure you’ve passed by Minaya once or twice. I know where’re the enemy but it doesn’t hurt to ask. And please don’t tell Lew about this, He’ll get p**.

By Lew

December 5, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

Nathan-Dude-Calm down before you burst a blood vessel and are forced to eat nothing but creamed spinach. Dude-EVERY team in our division and probably in all of baseball has question marks. I mean look at the Yankees. Suppose George Steinbrenner fires everyone. Suppose Derek Jeter beats ARod to death because he makes too many errors. Suppose they spend $4.3 trillion and don’t even win the division. Suppose. Suppose. That’s all anyone is doing. You know KC didn’t mean you ill personally. Go outside and roll in the snow for a few minutes with your kids and it will be ok. When you come back in have some hot chocolate. The Mets have just as many question marks as the Braves. Besides, they have whiny little mosquitoes for fans, too-not intelligent fans like you and KC.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 5, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

Calling all cars…Requesting an organized search party for DOB, Grinch, and Carolina Lady. Did somebody throw a party that we weren’t informed about???? Did they go into the witness protection program???? Did Grinch and CL take a road trip to join DOB at the winter meetings???? Did the homeboy upstairs trade them for NYM and a blogger to be named later????

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Morning, all. FBG, good to see you back; thought you’d turned into a pumpkin.

KC, I admit I was a bit harsh on the bullpen. I like Paranto, and I know Yates and McBride got better. I’m also a fan of the Vulture. It still needs some help, though. And while Wicky will make a huge difference (no pun intended) I doubt he’ll be quite as effective as he was last year (18 of 19 with a 1.04, I think?). He’s a little older, our enemies have already seen him once or twice through now, etc. He’s fearless, though, and he should still save 80% or more of his opportunities. As for the rotation, I set it up in terms of likely production, not potential. Yes, Smoltz is a #1 right this second. But he’s a year older, had four elbow surguries and has been logging an awful lot of innings lately. He’s stated in the past that if he has to have a fifth surgury he’ll retire. Think about that every time Bobby throws him out there on three day’s rest next year. Hampton’s a legitimate ace, but he’ll have some rust to shake off. I look for him to be about .500 the first month or two then tear it up after the break. James I put as a #3 ‘cause he’s inexperienced and doesn’t have power to rely on if he gets rattled. He’ll develop into a 2, hopefully quickly). Ramirez could be a #2 based on potential, but you’re the only one in America who thinks he’ll suddenly realize it next season at the same time he quits stubbing his toe in the whirlpool and going on the 60-day DL. Hudson is a good pitcher, KC; I never said he wasn’t. However, the way you view him is totally unique. Most everyone else has noticed what we like to call a “trend” in his pitching over the course of his career. He has gradually, without any sort of explanation, tranformed himself from an ace to a #2 to a #3 and he’s now a solid #4. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IN ONE YEAR. Was he a bad pitcher at any point during that time? No, as the stat’s you’ll pull up bear out. Does he look like a trustworthy bargain for anyone who wants an “ace?” Only to a total fool who never should have been awarded the title of GM. That’s why we can’t get rid of him; I’m sure you’ve heard we’re trying. And in fairness, if he doesn’t follow his set trend and get worse next year, he’ll be worth keeping as a #4. He doesn’t suck, he’s just uninspiring, to say the least.

A.J., I agree that our total offensive numbers from last year don’t tell the whole story. We WERE terribly streaky at times, and could’ve benefitted from a leadoff man during those occasions. Speed doesn’t slump, Marcus Giles does (in the wrong spot, of course).

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly (oops, I mean Appalachian American) the day I get traded for a Met fan is the day I commit blog arson. As for CL, I’ve been trying to get her to go on a road trip with me but she’s prejudiced against green people. :-) DOB’s probably sprawled out on some cushions in an opium den somewhere with some nice Chinese girl making sure he doesn’t hurt himself from those “strange dreams.”

By Carolina Lady

December 5, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

:-)))) Hey, Arkansas Hillbilly! I’ve just been real busy and though I’ve popped in to check for news here and there, I’ve not posted because of lack of time and nothing to contribute. I’ll have to admit there was temptation to put KC and Nathan in the corner for ‘time out’ while ago, but all seems peaceful now, thank Goodness! :-)))

I am most pleased to announce that my desk - the entire desk - is clean, neat and orderly! That tall stack of stuff that was teetering on top of the tower is now sorted and disposed of. And that other pile of ‘stuff to be dealt with sometime’? Dealt with! I’ll clean it out once a year whether it needs it or not! :-)))

OK - time to get supper together. Roasted a pork loin w/gravy yesterday and there’s plenty left for tonight. With Baby Lima Beans, homemade creamed corn, mashed potatoes? Sounds good!

Arkansas Hillbilly, loved your post re: Appalachian Americans. Someone sent that and I immediately thought of your moniker. Thought you especially would enjoy it! :-))

OK - to the kitchen! again…..

By MGL

December 5, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

From Orlando - Rumor has it that a certain Major League Baseball team’s beat reporter was seen partying at Downtown Disney nightspots until the wee hours of the morning. He was accompanied by a baby seal wearing a Braves cap. Seal professed to be rookie sensation Brian McCann and hyad the facial hairs to prove it.

They were seen leaving about two am with a couple of local ladies. From overheard conversations, they had a busy day planned for Tuesday with a visit to Sea World and then an afternoon by the pool. It was believed that they were going to recruit baby Shamu to party with them Tuesday evenin g and that he could be famous closer Bob Wickman

By KC

December 5, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

GRINGH:

“the way you view him (Hudson) is totally unique. Most everyone else has noticed what we like to call a “trend” in his pitching over the course of his career. He has gradually, without any sort of explanation, tranformed himself from an ace to a #2 to a #3 and he’s now a solid #4. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IN ONE YEAR.”

Grinchy, I completely understand your point of view, but let me explain why I don’t share it.

There are injuries that debilitate for long periods of time, and then there are injuries that just screw with a player more than anything. When you’re looking a stat sheet, you can often tell when a starting pitcher had a season with “nagging” injuries. The kind of thing where a player tries to rest to solve the problem, but when that doesn’t work, he just decides to pitcher through it. Usually, when you see a guy that normally makes 34 starts, make only 28 or 29 or something… there’s a good chance he had one of those lingering issues that didn’t cause him to miss a lot of time, but probably hampered him most of the season. Obviously, that’s not always the case. Sometimes a guy misses 7 starts for some reason, and then he’s perfectly fine. But I’ve just observed that at least half the time, when you see a guy who’s usually good for 34 starts, only make 28… it’s something nagging.

Anyway, Hudson is a perfect example of this. Here are the season by season start totals:

• 2000 – 33

• 2001 – 35

• 2002 – 34

• 2003 – 34

• 2004 – 27

• 2005 – 29

• 2006 – 35

You can clearly see that he’s good for 34 starts every year, but in 04 and 05… something was different. What was different is that he was hampered by a rib cage area side-muscle strain. That sort of thing is the very definition of “nagging injury”. I had that kind of injury playing ball back in high school. It takes forever to shake something like that, and it’s easy to aggravate, especially when you’re hitting.

I can tell you for a fact that this sort of nagging injury will mess with you. Hudson isn’t using that as an excuse, but the fact remains that it is impossible to produce 100% of what you’re capable of when you’re not 100% healthy.

2006 was an enigma. As far as we all know, he was entirely healthy. Just a lousy season. But in 04 and 05 he pitched with that side-muscle problem, and still posted an excellent 3.50 ERA each of those 2 seasons.

Given this fact, I don’t see the 04 and 05 seasons as the early stages of a descent from the top… I see those seasons as a guy who wasn’t 100%, and I view his 2006 season as an isolated incident.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 5, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB your kids are starving…feed us.

By The Grinch

December 5, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

Good post, MGL (and Billy; I’m sure we make DOB feel like a G.I. in a third world country surrounded by a bunch of screaming kids all wanting a piece of his hershey bar).

See what I mean, Arkansas Ap-Am? She won’t even acknowledge my verbal jab except to make me hungry.

KC, you’d make a hell of a defence lawyer. Maybe you’re right. Hope you are, in fact. Still think you’ll be buying the brew, though. :-)

Off to the gym.

By Rosalynn

December 5, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Seal? Mah Jimma was almost a Nava Seal but he decided to become a submarina instead. If theah is no news from DOB you may rest assuahed that he is undercova investigatin’ some maja trade activities. As soon as DOB has somethin’ to report he will be on this blog like my Jimma on a Habitat roof! (We no longa let Jimma hamma when he works with Habitat - now we mostly let him do some of the less strenuous jobs like rakin’ leaves and puttin’ out pine straw - but once he was vera famous foah his hammahing on the roof. That boy could suah hamma! And that reminds me of my all time favorite Atlanta Brave, Hammahing Hank. Now, that boy could hit betta than most and he wasn’t even the best playa on the team at the time. Jimma said Hammahing Hank could eat a whole bag of peanuts and never faht. That is one talented ballplayah.

By Nathan (The guy who wants Chop Chick's JOB)

December 5, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

KC

No harm, no foul. Just enjoy messing with you a little bit. (as I’m sure, you with me!)

I’d rather “argue” all day long with somebody with some humor, than have a normal conversation with somebody who’s WAAAAAAY too serious and takes things literally.

LEW

I aint got no snow to roll around in yet. Just FRICKIN cold and wind. So I’ll be avoiding doing ANYTHING outside with the kids. Dude if Jeter thinks he can be up Arod, he’s just stupid. Arod’s a BIG BOY! I’d pay to see that. Couple a pretty boys, throwin down! That would probably be about as “manly” of a fight as watching siegfried and roy go at it. (by go at it, I mean fighting, silly.)

Besides. I’ve changed my mind. WE’RE GOIN ALL THE WAY. WOO HOO! No wait, I’ve changed my mind again, KC “was right” Wickman’s to FAT to be of any good to us.

Just kidding. I’m sure we’ll be fine. Just so long as…………………..

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

22oz, your wish is my command. New blog posted. No opium den, Grinch. Just fake fuilding facades, lobby schmoozefests with (mostly) people you’d never want to talk to in “normal” life, and screaming rugrats who should be in school but are terrorizing Dark Star instead.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

22oz, your wish is my command. New blog posted. No opium den, Grinch. Just fake building facades, lobby schmoozefests with (mostly) people you’d never want to talk to in “normal” life, and screaming rugrats who should be in school but are terrorizing Dark Star instead.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

If that last thing posted twice, only because I tried to fix typo in “fuilding” (supposed to be building) after it was already going through. Not that I should have to apologize. Dammit.

By Nathan (maybe I should just go by N8)

December 5, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

KC Hudson (That IS your last name, isn’t it? LOL!)

For NOW I’ll shut up about Tim Hudson (somehow got this feeling he isn’t gonna be pitching for us anyway). I hope you are right and I am wrong. Just not sure.

DOB

Everything I’ve read about the Braves moving LaRoche has them “giving” the job to Thorman. Any chance if LaRoche is moved that they move Chipper to first before spring training? Not that we have ANY better options at 3B right now anyway. That just seems like a position he’ll end up at before too long anyhow? Even though I’m a firm believer that it’s not that easy for anybody to learn and play 1B (good 1B), like so many others do. We’d miss LaRoches Glove more than his bat, IMO. Or will the use Thorman as a stopgap guy until Salty is ready? Please don’t tell me that if LaRoche is traded that Brian Jordan would have a SHOT at making the club in a platoon roll with Thorman. I’d rather see Sid Bream come back. LOL!

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard NO talk of moving to Chipper to first base, at least not this year. Maybe a year from now.

By brian

December 5, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

The only way I see CHipper Jones moving to first base is if he volunteers, though it would be a perfect move if LaRoche is indeed traded. Escobar could move to 3rd and from what DOB has said about him, Escobar seems more fit for 3B than 2B anyway. Chipper could play 1B for a couple of years as Salty learns that position and hopefully recovers from last year’s debacle.

Agree with post above in regards to pitching prospect LaRoche could fetch. He could do much better than Penn - the Braves would demand their lefty prospect (I cannot remember his name). Ervin Santana would be a more appropriate righty along with Figgins.

By Carolina Lady

December 5, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

:-))) Hey, Arkansas Hillbilly! Thanks for the Where Are You! Been busier than a one-armed paperhanger. I pop in from time to time hoping to find good news for next year, but don’t really have time to post much.

Someone sent the Appalachian American thing in an email and I thought you might enjoy it! :-)) I loved your response!!

Grinch, sweetheart, green has nothing to do with it. :-))

I’m hoping that DOB is hot on the trail of some great news for us. If not, who is closest geographically to him who can deliver bail money? FBG??

By Tony

December 8, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this

David-Good article. Very good insight. But, let go of the past and live today and for the future. As you said, Glavine should have made that call if he wanted back. Apparantly, foolish pride gets in the way. But, has it gotten to the point that these ballplayers can’t see the forest through the millions (trees)?? Think of it - to go throw a ball every 4 to 5 days in a place that you had a brilliant career - 25 minutes from home? And get paid for it?? Tommy had his chance and if the pride got in the way then - perhaps his principles are different than what some might think?? Unfortunately-that is what this game has turned to and the players of yesteryear are few and far between. (Perhaps Tommy can wear the cap with the logo of the “union” that he is so enamored with). Good riddance once and for all to a player that I really enjoyed watching who was never really my all time favorite but who had some really good stuff! Thanks for the memories!

By jonny284

December 16, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this