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DEL.ICIO.USNo Braves offer yet for Glavine
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Tom Glavine wants to rejoin the Braves and the Braves want the 40-year-old left-hander back in their starting rotation. But as of late Tuesday, a signing seemed far from imminent _ in fact, there was reason to doubt if it would happen at all.
First and foremost, the Braves still had not made an offer to Glavine.
“There’s been a few very pleasant conversations with the Braves, who have expressed interest in having Tommy back,” agent Gregg Clifton said near midnight, “but as of now, no formal discussions about any terms that the Braves would be wiling to offer Tom for him to return.”
Braves GM John Schuerholz told me earlier Tuesday that he wouldn’t discuss Glavine because he never discusses free agents (I knew this would be his answer, but had to ask). John did tell me that as of Tuesday afternoon, nothing _ no trade or free-agent signing _ was imminent, though he said that could certainly change with one phone call at any time.
He also said the Braves expected all along to improve their roster via trades rather than free-agent signings, because of payroll constraints and the exploding free-agent market.
Glavine’s agent said he had only casual conversations with the Braves, and no dollar figures had even been mentioned. He scoffed at an internet rumor Tuesday night that claimed Glavine had agreed to an $8 million deal with the Braves.
Clifton said there have been no offers made yet by either the Braves or the Mets, who are awaiting word from Glavine as to what he wants to do _ return to the Mets or go back to the Braves.
Time is becoming a factor with Glavine, who assured the Mets he would give them an answer before the Dec. 4-7 winter meetings in Orlando, where the Mets would presumably begin an all-out push for Barry Zito and/or another marquee pitcher if Glavine, a former two-time Cy Young Award winner who has 290 career regular-season wins, doesn’t return to New York.
Glavine spent last week vacationing with his family and discussing how important it would be for them to have him him home pitching again for the Braves (the family still lives in Alpharetta) rather than flying the kids back and forth to New York once the school year begins, as he’s done the past four years.
The nine-time NL All-Star pitched for the Braves from 1987-2002, had five seasons of 20 or more wins for Atlanta, and was the 1995 World Series MVP. He’s third in wins among active pitchers behind Roger Clemens (348) and former Braves bud Greg Maddux (332).
Glavine’s 131 strikeouts in 2006 moved him from 40th to 30th on the career list with 2,481.
After going 23-34 with a 4.25 ERA in a span of 78 starts from May 23, 2003 to Aug. 5, 2005, he has fashioned a 20-11 record and 3.26 ERA in his past 42 regular-season starts since making changes to his pitching approach and relying less on his old staples _ changeups and fastballs on the outer edge of the plate and beyond.
Despite his desire to return to the Braves and their desire to improve their pitching staff, it still seemed completely up in the air whether he would pitch for the Braves in 2007 or return for a fifth season with the New York Mets. He has said repeatedly it’ll be one or the other, which would eliminate the opportunity to create a bidding war by bringing in other teams.
The Mets haven’t made an offer because they’re waiting for Glavine to tell them whether he wants back with the Braves. I’d be surprised if the Mets offered him anything less than a two-year deal similar to the one Mike Mussina just got from Yanks ($23 mill for two years).
If the Braves don’t make a competitive offer, and soon, it may quickly become less likely he’ll be back with Atlanta.
They aren’t expected to offer him more than the $8 million that his friend, golf partner and ex-teammate John Smoltz will make in 2007, and Glavine almost certainly won’t get a no-trade clause from the Braves _ Schuerholz never has given them to other players, be they stars or journeymen.
The Mets gave him a blanket no-trade clause before, and would give him one again.
Why would the Braves be dragging their feet? I didn’t get anything on that from his agent, but I’d guess it’s because the Braves are trying to complete a trade to open up some payroll room or perhaps to open a spot in the rotation, or both.
2B Marcus Giles? Likely to be traded. Starter Tim Hudson? Still seems unlikely, to me, despite his often-mediocre performance in Hudson’s first two seasons with the Braves.
Schuerholz told me Tuesday: “[Hudson] set the bar pretty high when he was over [in Oakland]. But if you look at the body of work since he’d been here _ he’d be the first to say it’s not what he’d hoped or or what we expected, but measured against the industry _ wins, innings pitched, starts … there’s still some positives.”
And Hudson’s salary, which jumps from $6 mill in 2007 to $13 mill in each of the next two seasons (2008-09), no longer looks so daunting in light of huge contracts being awarded to pitchers this winter. “Less and less so with every passing day,” Schuerholz said.
Personally, I think the Braves are trying to pull off a trade before they can make a formal offer to Glavine. And they might also be trying to wait until after Saturday, too, because if the Mets decline to offer arbitration to Glavine by a Dec. 1 deadline, the Braves wouldn’t owe them the two draft picks that go to teams who lose Type A free agents after offering arbitration.
The Mets presumably wouldn’t offer arbitration, because Glavine would likely be awarded a salary well in excess of the $11 million or so that the Mets would prefer to pay him in 2007.
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Comments
By Calvin
November 29, 2006 01:30 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the info and thanks for the fresh blog Mr. O’Brien.
By David
November 29, 2006 02:02 AM | Link to this
Reading between the lines here, it sounds like Glavine will sign with the Braves but not until after the December 1st deadline. Do I have that right?
By David
November 29, 2006 02:05 AM | Link to this
Reading between the lines here, it sounds like Glavine is almost certainly going to sign with Atlanta but not until after the draft pick deadline has passed on Friday. Does that sound about right?
By Bravo Nam
November 29, 2006 05:14 AM | Link to this
DOB
Awesome effort- posting a blog after midnight. And yet…some people still complain!
Billy
Sarcasm…looks like some of the examples I gave on the last blog were taken seriously, when in fact were meant tongue in cheek…you said that the issues about multiple sources you were referring to were about baseball…then, I don’t see the connection between the Army and baseball!!
At the end of the day, the issue in question is a one of trust- if you trust your source, it’s unlikely you’re going to double-check by looking for others…if you don’t trust the source…you’re going to keep checking until the cows come home.
CL
Good points about Tom Glavine on the last blog. It certainly doesn’t ring true the line about his family coming first and foremost…I’d love him to sign with the Braves coz it would help the Braves…but I’m under no illusion that his signing would have anything to do with loyalty to the city of Atlanta.
Grinch
I can’t take anymore of the Hawks narrow losses. Between following the Falcons and these guys, I’ve got stomach ulcers.
By Dale R
November 29, 2006 05:38 AM | Link to this
Hurry up and pull the trigger on a trade already! Geez, I want the Glavinator back, he obviously loves Atlanta and will have a chance to be reunited with Smoltzie. Come on, do it already!
We still have the Thrashers——a first place team!
By scott
November 29, 2006 05:57 AM | Link to this
It would be great to see Tommy Gunn back in a Bravos uniform but I still trust in JS to do what is best for the team in the long term, especially in this ridiculous free agent market. I think some of these teams that are paying outrageous cash for average players are going to regret it later. I wish I knew more about the new ownership and what they plan to do financially with the team.
By Ryan
November 29, 2006 06:51 AM | Link to this
As a die-hard fan since the woeful years in the 80’s, I want nothing more than to have Tommy back in that Braves uniform!! It just seems right to have Smoltz and Glavine back together for at least 1 more year. JS, DO WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!!!!
By Chris
November 29, 2006 06:54 AM | Link to this
I hope the new ownership will raise the payroll. That’s the only way the Braves will survive with the prices being paid to free agents now.
By Kay
November 29, 2006 07:05 AM | Link to this
Wanta know what happens. The braves trade Rameriz who will go 17-3 and Davies who will go 18-4 to make room for Glavine who will go 14-16. I would rather keep Rameriz and Davies. These two are the ones that if you trade them will be another Wainwright. I dont want Glavine back.
By Mike
November 29, 2006 07:44 AM | Link to this
I’m sorry Kay, but Ramirez will never win 17 in a season. But I hope they don’t get rid of Davies.
By stinky
November 29, 2006 07:56 AM | Link to this
Billy{TBFNB} is a military intelligence expert?! Damn!! So that’s what John Kerry was talking about.
By Paul
November 29, 2006 08:05 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB, what do you think about the Yanks giving 25 million for the rights to Igawa. Do you think he’ll be an effective starter in the majors? If Giles is traded, where do you think he’s going?
By berigan
November 29, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this
Well, if Glavine is offered 12 Million, vs 8 Million from the braves, Plus the gets 3 million buyout from the Mets as well, that is only 1 million difference. Though I imagine 1 million will pay for a lot of flying of the fam up to NYC. Plus, as someone mentioned on the previous blog, sad to say, the Mets if they get Zito and resign Glavine, are more likely to get to the WS than the Braves. JS should weight this fact as well. Give Glavine a signing bonus, then have an 8 mil contract to get around his contract being higher than Smoltz’s.
By dadgum
November 29, 2006 08:14 AM | Link to this
JS ain’t stupid enough to trade HOram and Davies to “make room for Glavine”. That won’t happen. They may indeed be involved in other talks but it is doubtful both will go as both pitchers can fill middle relief duties and we need at least one of them in that role. Heavy rumors abound that Glavine will be in Atlanta.
The most reasoned is that Atlanta has decided against going after Dontrelle Willis and that the Zito sweepstakes is out of reach. Basically there are no pitchers left that can bring to the Braves what Glavine can give them if only for a short time.
Glavine at 8 mil for 2 years with a team option in year 3 is the best guess. The Braves will probably offer innings pitched/wins incentives as well.
One thing for sure, Marcus Giles won’t be around. His salary will have to be dumped somewhere no matter what transpires in trade or free agency. You can bet on your last dollar that Marcus has his bags already packed.
By Johnny Bainbridge
November 29, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this
I don’t understand what the big deal is for Glavine. If he is gonna pitch one more year it’s only gonna’ be 81 times he is away from home for the last time of his career! The Mets can give him the extra finacial security, all the accomodations of NYC, and a better chance to win. Plus I heard he gets along great with G.M. Minaya and the Wilpon family. Do you really wanna base your decision on what a five year wants?
By berigan
November 29, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this
Did y’all here about Adam Kennedy signing with the Cards? 3 years, 10 Million. About 2 million a year cheaper than Giles. Hmmm. Now who is left that needs a 2nd baseman now that SD and St. Louis are off the map??? The Angels?(They seem to have more prospects than any other team, which may also mean they have a 2nd baseman in the wings)The Blue Jays? DOB, is there ANY chance the Braves might just release him instead of paying him 5+ million next year? I mean, I know that sounds crazy, but then again, J.S. traded a useless commodity(A 20 game winner) for a minor league catcher once.
By Rob S.
November 29, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this
The chance of Ramirez going 17-3 is about the same as Steve Bedrosian coming back and saving 40 for us.
By Shaun
November 29, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this
By BB FAN
November 28, 2006 04:55 PM
Shaun,
“Someone threw the 1919 World Series. Baseball decided they were going to start coming down hard on gambling and fixing games. Whoever was even remotely involved paid the price. Joe Jackson at the very least had knowledge of the fix and probably was involved to some degree, so he was one of the players that paid the price. Can’t blame baseball for finally wanting to clean things up.”
A lot of people had knowledge of the fix. Hell, everybody from the White Sox owner to the gambling fans had an idea. So was the White Sox owner banned for life? No. Just because a person has knowledge of something doesn’t mean he/she should be responsible.
If thats the case then, you are saying that if “John Doe” gets killed and you don’t know “John Doe”, however, earlier in the day, you overheard some dumb drunk bragging that “John Doe” was going to die later, you should be held accountable for that murder?
Joe Jackson was involved in the fix, no matter how minor I think any reasonable person would have to admit he was at least somewhat directly involved. Whether he took the money and continued to play well, whether he was approached and didn’t take the money, he was still directly involved. Unfortunately baseball decided to come down hard on gambling in the early ‘20’s and Joe Jackson was one of the players who paid the price. Just like Rafael Palmeiro paid the price for baseball coming down harder on steroids; although he wasn’t the first or the only.
I think what happened in the early 1920’s is baseball realized it could become a huge, serious American industry (because of Babe Ruth, the rising popularity of the game, a strong economy and other things) and decided it would start to clamp down and clean up its image. Remember baseball didn’t have a commissioner until the early 1920’s.
Also, the media was a huge industry, so this was really the first World Series where the media brought up a fix and made it an big issue.
The 1919 World Series was probably not the first to be fixed by gamblers. There were rumors of many World Series being fixed throughout the first two decades of the 20th century. Baseball decided to clamp down mostly because of the economic implications of the possibilities of gamblers controlling important games.
By berigan
November 29, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this
Rob S., LOL!!!!!
By BRAVES SUCK
November 29, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this
Tommy Gun is going to be a Met, Braves are cheap and are on a rapid decline.. I love it.. The mets are going to get Zito, your precious Glavinator…lol and possibly D-Train…. Atlanta sucks, Francouer is a poor mans D Wright… Braves Blow, cry about it.. let me here ya.. THE TEAM THE TIME.. THE METS
By Gary
November 29, 2006 08:48 AM | Link to this
Sorry to say that Glavine will not bring back the Glory Days of old. JS needs to plan for the future with younger arms..
By jack
November 29, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this
Last year. Ramirez, Thompson, Chipper, all hurt. No leadoff man, Hudson subpar, no long relief help, no closer…on and on. But of all these things, if we had had Wickman to close out all those blown saves, the team, busted up as it was, would likely have made the playoffs. So, adding Tom would help but I am sure Bobby & JS are also looking at this as to what pieces need to be fixed for 07 & the MAJOR one of CLOSER looks to have been the best move. Remember, Tom left us when Chipper, Andruw & Smoltz all restructured contracts to stay in Atlanta. We have a good base team already. Have Hope.
By Steve
November 29, 2006 08:54 AM | Link to this
This is great…love to see a fresh post as well…but this offseason is very frustrating so far…it seems lots of teams are making move but nothing from the Braves…if your a fan you want to see some action…you don’t hear (or read) anything about Atlanta on other sports related sites…it sucks.
By eware
November 29, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this
In order to get Glav back, I think all JS should have to do is show him a picture of what he looks like in that ugly orange and blue. Glav needs to be in Braves colors!
How would Smoltz feel about Glavine making more than him? Part of me thinks he’d be cool with it, cause a big payday is on the horizon before he retires.
By michael
November 29, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this
“Braves Suck”, Thanks for disproving that thing about Mets fans being nasty and rude. Good job. I think D.Wright is great…in the regular season. His post season was terrible. As a Braves fan, I’ve seen the same thing many times. What a shame.
By VaBravesfan
November 29, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this
Ramirez may win 17 games, just not all in the same year.
By Billy
November 29, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this
Dave - great article. I remember Andruw Jones signing a contract with the Braves and his agent didn’t have a clue he was negotiating his own deal. The agent isn’t always a good source of info.
You said Clifton scoffed at an internet rumor Tuesday night that claimed Glavine had agreed to an $8 million deal with the Braves.
Clifton may not be involved in any discussions between Tommy and the Braves because Tommy himself may have spoken directly with certain Braves officials personally.
The internet source you are referring to is as reliable and reputable as it gets in the world of the Braves. We both know who I am referring to.
There is another source that has broken news of Tommy before mainstream media gets it and he has never been wrong, yet. He came out with the arm problem Tommy had last year long before anyone else. He is a family member and he says Tommy is coming back to the Braves. Take that for what it is worth. Like you said, one phone call and it could go either way.
To get back to the internet source you alluded to, maybe you should give him a call. He rarely, if ever, reveals rumors unless he has a good source. Of course his source could be mistaken, but that seems unlikely.
Clifton might be the last to know Tommy’s intentions - Boras was a bit surprised once himself.
By TK
November 29, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this
I have read a lot interesting trades to say the least. I am over the Crawford stuff. I did like the idea to bring John Thomson back. I have two trades that I am going to throw out. Be kind we didn’t kill anyone over the Crawford binge. Marcus Giles and Horacio Ramirez to SD for Jake Peavy. Tim Hudson and Willy Aybar to Baltimore for Brian Roberts. This frees up a good bit of payroll and Peavy and Roberts will cost about what Giles will get. You get a leadoff guy in Roberts. You get Peavy who is 6yrs younger than Hudson. You can keep the LF platoon of Diaz/Langerhans. I think Ryan will improve over last year. No, I don’t think he will be a all-star. But a very solid player who is very good defensively. You may have to add some other players to make this work. But these are the main players. I know some will say SD will not let Peavy go. He had a down year and some injuries. They may listen. Pitching 3rd or 4th in the rotation behind Smoltz, Glavine (?), Hampton should lower his ininings and his chance of injury.
By Bill Clifton
November 29, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this
If the Braves want Glavine, offer the Mets, Hamilton for a minor league player. The last 5 years he has a 53-48 record. That’s not worth the price. Sign Glavine, then trade Rameriz to Cin for Phillips or Freel. That solves 2nd base, a lead-off hitter and moves out some heavy salary.
By MetsInATL
November 29, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this
I’m a lifelong Mets fan and I think Tom Glavine is a great pitcher and would love to have him back. But as a baseball fan, who believes in team loyalty even in this age of sports, I think it would be great for Glavine to return to the Braves and get his 300th. Tom — go back to the Braves. Be near your family and return to your baseball home. We’ll get by without you and will look forward to pasting you in the coming year! (sorry had to get that in).
By Shaun
November 29, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this
By Paul
November 28, 2006 04:57 PM
Shaun, but with the crop of shortshops now, Ripken won’t be in the top 5 for long.
I don’t know of another SS that could overtake Ripken at this point. ARod could have but he’s at third now. Jeter could be top 10 or 15 by the time he retires, but he’s probably not going to be in Ripken’s class.
By Greg in TN
November 29, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this
Hey Suck…
Is that the same David Wright that hit .216 in the postseason this past October? Yeah, he sure did rip the cover off the ball in October.
Thanks for the leg work and the fresh blog, DOB. Not sure how this will all shake out, but I think the pitching staff will be just fine in 2007 with or without Glavine.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 29, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
lew, good luck with the eye today. hope all is successful. now, following the reasoning expressed by some on this blog we should keep brian jordan around for his presence (wait, that was last year) and allow him to finish his career as a brave. give him a shot at second base. bat him leadoff. maybe he can work in the pen some, too.
By texbravesfan
November 29, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this
Hey MetsinAtl, that was probably the most sincere thing I have ever heard from a Mets fan and probably the smartest. Thanks for the honesty. Tommy would sure be welcomed back and needed to solidify this rotation and could also help James mature and help his career out. I think I would like to keep Hudson as well because he has to turn it around and no good pitcher can be down that long. I wouldnt mind getting roberts for the leadoff spot and would be a cheaper option.
By Kevin
November 29, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this
Tell Glavine to keep his greedy butt out of Atlanta. He isn’t wanted here. He turned his back on Atlanta years ago. Good ridance.
By T Robb
November 29, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this
That “internet rumor” is from a d@mn good source. That’s not just a bunch of bloggers. I’m not scoffing.
By Bravesfan16
November 29, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
DOB—Does JS or the organization give any indication of frustration that the market is leaving them behind? It just seems over the last few years things happen much more quickly and instead of being pro-active the Braves are now re-active. I understand JS is old school (which I like), but when the times change you have to change some with them.
By Robb
November 29, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
The Braves need new owners, some who are not afraid to spend a little money to improve the team. I really do hope we see a Glavine signing after Dec.1 & a trade if necessary. I would really, really love to see Glavine pick up win #300 in a Braves uniform.
By Paul
November 29, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
I disagree Shaun. Jeter is a far better shortstop then Ripken. Leadership, clutch hitting, rings, and all the intangibles make Jeter better. If I am starting team I would build it around Jeter. What about Vizquel? He has to be high on the list. If Ozzie Smith is in the hall, you could make a good argument for Vizquel.
By Paul
November 29, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this
Lew,
Hope all went well with your doctor’s appointment.
By Carroll
November 29, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this
On a side note, what is the deal with this stupid tv show, “My Boys”?! Why is there an article about it polluting the Braves main page? It is like a slap in the face to Braves fans because all the money those stupid suits at TW wasted on that idiotic show could have been spent on free agents for the Braves…you know, the whole reason that TBS even exists in the first place!!
And the show was just awful…why didn’t they just call it “the t.v. version of something about Mary”?! Hell it’s like they cloned Cameron Diaz for the role.
One day these stupid suits will realize that the thing which makes tv shows popular is that their premise must be based in reality…soemthing that EVERYONE can believe and relate to (see e.g. Seinfeld, Friends, Cosby, Roseane, etc). But in shows like this, they come up with this completely b.s. story line where a gorgeous chick likes to hang out with a bunch of guys, but doesn’t want a relationship…likes sports and guy stuff, etc. Nothing believeable about that.
Anyway, just had to get that of my chest because I’m so sick to death of stuff being hyped up (like Borat, etc) only to be thoroughly dissapointed….I was actually excited about this show ONLY because I’m a huge Jim Gaffigan fan…turns out he wa sin it for like a colective 3 minutes. Just another half hour of my life I wish I could have back.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this
Morning, all. I hear Snoop Dogg got arrested yesterday for illegal possession of a handgun and drugs. I thought that happened last month…oh, yeah it did. And about 9 or 10 other times, as well. Hmm. Interesting irony going on here in the Snopp saga. They keep pulling him over and/or searching him without probable cause because he’s black and looks like a thug, they keep finding what they’re looking for because he is a thug (no, not because he’s black so don’t go there), and he keeps getting off with a slap on the wrist time and time again for stuff I’d go under the prison for because he’s filthy rich. What a country, huh? Opressed and hooked up at the same time.
By dave
November 29, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this
Glavine is a 10 time all star, not a 9 time, geez do some research.
By Keith
November 29, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this
Hey Kevin -
Tell Glavine to keep his greedy butt out of Atlanta. He isn’t wanted here.
He isn’t wanted here? Have you been reading any of the other posts?
I admit I was really irritated when he left, but think about all he did for the Braves, and read JS’s book. He’s a leader, he’s an incredible pitcher, and he’s a BRAVE.
By Jamie in Richmond
November 29, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this
Grinch. Can we stick to baseball/music talk? Lets keep the race chatter to a minimum. And how do you know that the police pull him over without P.C.? Were you there? Cmon man…Give me a break
By Howie from Poughkeepsie
November 29, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
Look…the Braves problem is pitching….we are competitive (or better) everywhere else….Glavine on the Braves is a #4 or #5 starter…..not bad for his experience…$8M is fair for a ‘hometown discount’…and allows trading of Ramirez for the middle relief we so sorely needed last year. Even as a 6 inning pitcher, if he can keep his ERA around 3.50 he is a steal in today’s market….even for a year. It’s a sin what pitchers with career ERAs over 4 are getting in today’s market.Remember…..team’s with starting pitching with consistent ERAs over 4 cannot win titles. Net: Take Glavine for $8M, trade Giles and Ramirez for middle relief - AND LEAVE THE OTHER DAY TO DAY PLAYERS ALONE. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
By braves fan
November 29, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
Dave,
I don’t want to sound like I’m ripping you a new one, but you answered your own question. If the Braves can wait until after Saturday, Dec 1 to make Glavine an offer, and keep from sending the Mets any draft picks, and still have time before Glavine’s deadline he promised the Mets of Dec 4, why is it such a mystery why they haven’t made an offer yet? I’m no Sherlock Holmes, but it sounds elementary my dear O’Brien. He doesn’t have to make trades before he can sign Glavine. Because they aren’t paying him until next season, so technically they aren’t over budget yet, if they add him now, while they still have Giles and whoever else they might deal.
By eware
November 29, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
I apologize for not knowing this, but what was the difference between the Mets and the Braves offers for Glavine the season he left? How far apart were they?
As it stands right now, I can’t fault Glavine for leaving over more money. I would leave almost any job for more cash. I hate thinking like that, but whether anyone wants to admit it or not, money is a big deal in this capitalist society. Take it while you can.
By Stinky
November 29, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this
berigan, that 3 mill buyout is essentially deferred compensation from last year. Glavine is giving up 4+mil if he signs with the Braves. Of course, every dollar he spends in NY is worth only 67 cents. And its very hard to find a good oral surgeon in a NY airport.
By Tim
November 29, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
If the Braves get Glavine back they better have a strong middle relief pitcher on the staff because Glavine at best is a six inning pitcher these days. He is a future Hall of Famer but his best days are behind him, why do you think that the Mets did not exercise their option on him for 2007. He seemed to tire after a great first half of ‘06 and was very hittable the second half. No matter were he ends up I will be rooting for him to get that 300th win.
By Drummerdad
November 29, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this
I think seeing Glavine win number 300 in the tomahawk uni would be pretty electrifying and probably help heal some off the bitterness some folks feel. As for the “negotiations”, we’ll know when we know. That’s just life with John Schuerholz. His cards are glued to his vest.
By np
November 29, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this
Don’t the Mets have to offer Glavine arbitration to keep negotiating with him? I’m pretty sure they lose the right to sign him until May unless they offer him arbitration. Not to mention the fact that wouldn’t mind paying him what he would get in arbitration for one year to keep him. I don’t think that is any reason for the delay.
By KC
November 29, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this
It sounds like there are several positives in the Glavine situation:
1 - First of all, Glavine and Greg Clifton (his agent) are smart dudes. Surely they know the same thing all of us know… that it’s unlikely Atlanta will offer Glavine anything in significant excess of about 8 million dollars. They must have that expectation, and still… Glavine is interested in returning to the Braves.
2 - Clifton agent has confirmed now that they have talked, and that the Braves do appear to be interested, as is Glavine.
3 - DOB has listed some very good possible reasons why the Braves haven’t made an offer yet to Tom Glavine. The fact that the Braves don’t seem to b moving quickly here is likely not an indicator of lukewarm interest on Atlanta’s part.
I’m excited about the possibility of the Braves signing Glavine for a number of reasons. First, Glavine is still a top-quality starter. Maybe not a true ace anymore, but still something of a top-tier pitcher. Also, he’s durable. Given that he would be replacing Horacio Ramirez in the rotation, it would make the rotation far less susceptible to the injury bug. In short, he could help bolter the rotation.
Additionally, it’s a chance not only for the Braves to add a top-tier starter, but also to take one away from their division rival. Glavine is the only truly quality starter the Mets have right now (they can’t bank on Pedro next season), and losing him would put them in a world of hurt. If the Mets lose Glavine, they would have to land Zito, and sign (or trade for) at least one, but probably two, more quality starters this winter in order to field a competitive rotation next season. If the Braves can sign Tom Glavine, it would certainly (in my opinion) instantly shift the balance of power in the NL East.
Finally, I have to admit that while I was thoroughly p** at him when he left for not all that much more than what the Braves had ultimately offered… I would still like to see him back for sentimental reasons. It’d be nice to see Smoltz and Glavine back atop this rotation once again (hopefully with a sharp Hudson and Hampton to go along with a good young lefty, Chuck James, who Glavine can help mentor).
Come on Tom… you know you want to finish your career in Atlanta. Do the right thing!
By ChickenGizzard
November 29, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
Hell Y’all!==ChickenGizzard would have to scoff at a mere $8 mil. anal offer too.
By rammerjammer
November 29, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
Tim’s right about Glavine being a “six-inning pitcher,” but I disagree about him being “very hittable” in the second half. His August ERA was 3.60, and it was 3.38 in September. And in three postseason starts, it was 1.59.
But he’s right about the six innings. Fortunately, the Braves are in reasonably good bullpen shape, needing only a second veteran lefty for long relief.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
Jamie, just making what I feel to be an amusing observation as a change of pace. As for lack of PC, I say that because in every other celebrity arrest you read about they always go out of their way to list the PC, but they never do with Snoop (which may be one reason he always seems to get off). Anyhoo, wasn’t trying to race-bait or even start a thread; just making an observation. Talk about whatever you want.
By KC
November 29, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this
Oh yeah, one more reason I would like to see Tom Glavine back… damn it would feel good to see the Braves land a big free agent.
It’s been a while. Back when the Braves had Turner’s pocket book, it was fun every winter, waiting to see who the Braves would sign. Now we just have to sit back every winter and wait to find out who’s leaving for New York or LA.
It’d be awfully nice to see the Braves sign a free agent away from a major market team, rather than the other way around.
By Justin
November 29, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this
You can have Glavine back in Atlanta!! He is proving that he does not care about winning and all he seems to care about is his 10 wins. If he cared about winning he would play for the Mets!! He will be getting paid too much money anyway!!
By Judy
November 29, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this
Glavine has already made a gazillon dollars. If he wants to come back to finish a fine career with Smoltz, Bobby and win his 300th with the Braves let it happen BUT only at a rock bottom bargain price. I still predict that this will be Smoltz and Bobby’s last year and to have the three of them go out together and go into the Hall together would be awesome. Think Small Money Glavine and we would all welcome you back. Otherwise stay in New Yuk.
By nnerbo
November 29, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this
I have been a braves fan since I can remember. Tommy has been my favorite and even when he left atlanta, he was still one of my fav’s. I think any true fan would love to have tommy back. If not, you are not a true fan because tommy can only help the team. Regardless of the year he will have if he does go back to atlanta, he will still be a important role. Did anyone forget 95 ws game 6? Just for that alone should make some of you realize what he did for us.
Nick from chicago.
By KC
November 29, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this
Kay:
Bringing Tom Glavine back would necessitate moving Horacio Ramirez, but not Kyle Davies. Davies is likely to start the season at AAA.
I’m a big believer in Horacio Ramirez, but the fact is that he’s very injury prone and is about to get a lot more expensive over the next couple of seasons. I am not with those who suggest that we should unload Ramirez just to dump salary. I think he has far too much ability to do something like that. Letting Ramirez go for anything less than the opportunity to add a proven top-tier starter would be beyond foolish, in my opinion. However, the Braves have just such an opportunity, and if at all possible… they should seize it.
Personally, and I know I’m going to get lambasted for this one, but I would like to see the Braves sign Glavine, keep Ramirez, and move Chuck James TEMPORARILY back to the bullpen… at least until HoRam has had ample opportunity to bring his trade value up. If he stays healthy, I think Ramirez could bring a king’s ransom if traded mid-way through the season. Once his stock is where it needs to be, then trade him and more James back to the rotation.
The only problem with that plan is that the Braves will probably need to clear Ramirez’s salary in addition to that of Marcus Giles in order to make salary room for Glavine. Oh well. I would hate to see the Braves move Ramirez for anything less than the considerable return that I believe he’s worth, but I think it would be worth it in the end.
By Greg in TN
November 29, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
KC, agree with you completely on your thoughts about Glavine. I too would like to see him back with a tomahawk on his shirt. I’m a little antsy to hear news, but I can understand the conventional wisdom that says the delay is due to JS working on clearing out payroll and the wait until after 12/1 when it won’t cost us anything to sign him.
As much as I despise our division rivals, I do have to tip my cap to the Mets through all of this. They are showing a remarkable amount of class in giving Glavine time, knowing they would be out a couple of compensatory picks if he signs with us after the deadline.
Also, thanks MetsinATL, classy post man.
By John Adcox
November 29, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
Bill Shanks over on scout.com is reporting that the Braves and Glavine are close on a contract. Any updates on this end?
John
By ChickenGizzard
November 29, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this
Give Glavine a break==Would you want to leave a rich Winner and go to a bargain-basement Loser==Kinda like going from the White House to the Shi t House don’t you think?==Well maybe that wasn’t a good comparison these days.
By Jamie in Richmond
November 29, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
Yeah okay Grinch. Just seemed like an comment that didnt need to be made, and the “he was pulled over because he’s black” comment is absurd. Anyway, back to baseball…
By Alex
November 29, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this
michael, I wouldn’t worry about “braves suck”, that’s probably some 12 year old trying to get responses.
KC…the Braves aren’t going to land a “big free agent” b/c new ownership is needed, that will actually expand the payroll to compete with the Mutts.
Benedit Glavine can go a long way to redeeming himself if he chooses to sign a 2 year, 8 Million per year deal with the Braves.
He never looked “right” in that ugly Mutts uniform to begin with, but he sold his soul to the devils in orange for more money, he thought that by now he would have had that 300th win and could retire, but no…he’s got to come back with his tale tucked between his legs to the Braves to get those 10 more wins!
By KC
November 29, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this
Justin:
“If he (Glavine) cared about winning he would play for the Mets!!”
Apparently, you are still drunk from the emotional high of defeating Atlanta for the division title. If you think the Mets look like the better team heading into next season… you really need to put a pot of coffee on, and take a cold shower.
It is a very safe bet that Atlanta’s bullpen will not look anything like it did most of the way through last season. Shuerholz will see to that. Both the Braves and the Mets will have strong bullpens next season.
Altanta’s offensive was already slightly better than the Mets’ last year, though all in all, they are similar teams in terms of their ability to put runs on the board. So… it looks like the primary thing separating the Braves and Mets next season will be the starting rotation of each team. Please tell me you are clear-minded enough to see that the Braves look infinitely better in that department heading into next season, especially if we sign Glavine. PLEASE tell me your honest enough not to try and spin that one in NY’s favor. The Mets have a starting pitching problem right now. If Glavine leaves, it turns into a starting pitching crises.
If Tom Glavine cares about winning, in all honesty, either team would be a good bet… but right now, the Braves look like a slightly better bet for Tommy to win another ring.
By ChickenGizzard
November 29, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this
KC==the Mets have the dough to fix their starting rotation==Brats don’t.
By J
November 29, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this
Alright here is the plan JOHN once we free up some Salary cap space via a trade hopefully Giles who is a good player but seems to be often injured. We then sign Glavine then top off by going after MadDog. Imagine the rotation Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, then who knows Chuck James maybe Hampton and Hudson whomever gets left out of that rotation could be a big boost to a horrible bullpen
By EAP
November 29, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary, Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore— While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping, As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my clubhouse door— “’Tis Tom Glavine,” I muttered, “tapping at my clubhouse door—Only this and nothing more.”
By KC
November 29, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this
John Adcox:
Apparently, you have to subscribe to scout.com’s #&$%^#$ insider deal in order to access Bill Shanks’ column.
Can you repeat some of what he’s saying? Or maybe copy/paste?
Also, what is the time/date stamp on the column?
By PEEP
November 29, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
The nite was bright,
The sky was blue,
Down from New Yawk selfish Glavine flew,
Acry went out!
A shout was heard!
Selfish Glavine was shown the door, and flown the Bird!!
By ChickenGizzard
November 29, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this
I believe John Schuerholz’s Hot Stove has gone out long ago.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this
Of course it would be absurd if that was the whole sentence, that’s why I added “and looks like a thug.” If you think the thug look doesn’t make a difference in whether you get pulled over or not, try it sometime and see (especially in L.A.). When I drive my black ‘85 Monte Carlo SS with tinted windows in Atlanta I get pulled over about twice a week. I drive my trusty pickup the same way in the same places and haven’t yet. Anyhoo, I wasn’t standing on a soapbox or anything, just got up, noticed a headline, made a comment and it apparently missed. Oops!
Glavine will not come here for 8 million per if NY offers 11-12. That’s roughly a 33% difference in money, which is exactly what he left here to go there for in the first place, turning down a chance to have his entire career in front of a city that loved him. No way he doubles back now for that much less.
By DJ
November 29, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
The thing that is most frustrating about the Braves is that there is NO action going on thus far, while seeing the other teams continue to prepare for the ‘07 season. It is also just as frustrating to know that we are only going to be working with an $80 million budget for ‘07. Plenty of scenarios are being tossed around as to what should be done in putting a “chapmionship caliber” team” on the field, but the pickings are getting ever so slim and the two things we are in desperate need of are slipping right through us, a lead-off hitter that can play left field or second base and more middle relief. The starting pitcher issue is either hit or miss.
While reading some of these blogs and noticing that there are Glavine haters and bashers out there, each of you should think about the fact that you would have done the same thing 4 seasons ago and took the salary increase to NY as well. Loyalty would not have mattered in that case with you, and don’t expect the same from Andruw a year from now, especially with a guy named Boras representing him.
Do I see playoffs in the Braves’ picture for ‘07? Yes, but they must take action NOW and I mean NOW on quality lined players that will have immediate impact on the squad. With JS being nonchalant with his comments and having his customary “poker face” is not going to cut it, and will leave us being second or third fiddle once again in ‘07.
A decent team is what we have right now, but a “championship caliber” team is what we are far from having.
I support the signing of Glavine at no more than $8 million for 1 year. I also feel that we need to trade Giles, Ramirez, Davies, and Langerhans really soon. There are enough players that you can package for a marquee player as well as allow some focus to be with our bench as well, which could use some building in itself.
By Matthew
November 29, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
Grinch:
You’re not figuring in the $3 mil buyout that Glav would get from NY if he comes to ATL. The difference would be $1 or $2 mil the first year (assuming ATl offers $8 mil and NY offers $11 or $12 mil), and $3 or $4 mil the second year (if it were a two year deal). So total we’re looking at a difference over the two years, at maximum, of $6 milion dollars. For Glavine, he’ll have to answer this question: what’s more important, finishing his HOF career and getting his 300th win with the team that gave him his chance while being with his family, or $6 million dollars in a place where a dollar is worth 67 cents, and miss his family most of the year.
Sounds like an easy call to me, but I don’t have to make it. Tom does.
By DJ
November 29, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
The thing that is most frustrating about the Braves is that there is NO action going on thus far, while seeing the other teams continue to prepare for the ‘07 season. It is also just as frustrating to know that we are only going to be working with an $80 million budget for ‘07. Plenty of scenarios are being tossed around as to what should be done in putting a “chapmionship caliber” team” on the field, but the pickings are getting ever so slim and the two things we are in desperate need of are slipping right through us, a lead-off hitter that can play left field or second base and more middle relief. The starting pitcher issue is either hit or miss.
While reading some of these blogs and noticing that there are Glavine haters and bashers out there, each of you should think about the fact that you would have done the same thing 4 seasons ago and took the salary increase to NY as well. Loyalty would not have mattered in that case with you, and don’t expect the same from Andruw a year from now, especially with a guy named Boras representing him.
Do I see playoffs in the Braves’ picture for ‘07? Yes, but they must take action NOW and I mean NOW on quality lined players that will have immediate impact on the squad. With JS being nonchalant with his comments and having his customary “poker face” is not going to cut it, and will leave us being second or third fiddle once again in ‘07.
A decent team is what we have right now, but a “championship caliber” team is what we are far from having.
I support the signing of Glavine at no more than $8 million for 1 year. I also feel that we need to trade Giles, Ramirez, Davies, and Langerhans really soon. There are enough players that you can package for a marquee player as well as allow some focus to be with our bench as well, which could use some building in itself.
By michael
November 29, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
MetsInATL, It’s nice be wrong about Mets not having any fans with class. Now, reasons to be optimistic for 2007… 1. AJ in a contract year.(remember Javy?)One can only hope he’ll be inspired enough to hit it to right field every once in a while. 2. Francouer will have a full spring training’s worth of at-bats. 3. Having a closer. 4. Chuck James in the starting 5 from day one. 5. Hampton back and healthy.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
Matthew, you’re right. I forgot about that 3 mill. As for the rest, when Glavine left he left for 3 years/33 million instead of 2/20 (with an option for a third making it 3/30). Even if you subtract the 3rd year from the braves offer, if you factor in the 67 cents on the dollar he basically left here for 3 million bucks. His family didn’t seem to matter then, and he thought he was going to get his 300th with the Mets then, too. I think y’all are bestowing way too much integrity on that @-hole.
By Shaun
November 29, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
I disagree Shaun. Jeter is a far better shortstop then Ripken. Leadership, clutch hitting, rings, and all the intangibles make Jeter better. If I am starting team I would build it around Jeter. What about Vizquel? He has to be high on the list. If Ozzie Smith is in the hall, you could make a good argument for Vizquel.
Ripken was a slightly better hitter and a much better fielder. Leadership, clutch hitting—I haven’t seen anything that would indicate Jeter being better in those categories. In 28 post-season games Ripken hit .336 AVG/.411 OBP/.455 SLG—that’s pretty impressive, better than Jeter in every category except for a slight difference in slugging.
As far as rings, Jeter played for the Yankees and Ripken for the O’s…that’s all that needs to be said really. Why should Ripken get punished for being surrounded by worse players? Ripken was a slightly better hitter overall and a much better fielder, but Jeter should get enough extra credit for those differences because he was surrounded by better players?
Vizquel has never even sniffed an MVP award, so I don’t think he’s in the argument for the greatest SS ever. And actually, the advanced defensive stats seem to indicate Vizquel was/is overrated as a fielder. He does make some spectacular plays, but the numbers show he doesn’t/didn’t get to as many balls as some other shortstops.
By Sarah
November 29, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
Would love to have Glavine back in Atlanta!
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 29, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
DOB - question regarding the japanese pitchers. when a team makes a bid for the negotiating rights, does that money factor into the contract they work out? or will the $26 mil that the yankees offered for igawa go into negotiating with him (so i would guess the Hanshin Tigers would get that $26 mil)? thanks.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 29, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
are we feeling soft and fuzzy yet?
loyalty works both ways. should tommy have any loyalty for the team that anted up the extra bucks that lured him to ny? don’t the mets have unfinished business? doesn’t tommy, as well? doesn’t he leave a huge void in the rotation if he abandons ny? they paid him especially well when atlanta would not. they didn’t get much of a return until last year and now he isn’t sure where he wants to pitch in 2007. he’s leaving the mets hanging and that seems classless. ultimate team guy, huh? guess it’s all in how you look at it.
By JP
November 29, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
I am a Mets fan and Glavine fan, but Glavine will be receiving a $3 million buyout, PLUS $12 million per. He has been a good pitcher and a class act. The only bad thing I have to say is making the Mets wait this long to know if he will be coming back is wrong. And since he is taking his time, I would rather him not come back!!! That is like a slap in the face. I would rather have Barry Zito and someone 10 years younger.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
BTW, y’all; Lew is out of surgery and doing fine.
By rammerjammer
November 29, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this
Glavine would be a perfect fit. This talk about greediness is nonsense.
If he performs on the mound and gets along with his teammates, that’s good enough for me and it makes the Braves much, much better. It also weakens the Mets at the same time.
There is no “downside” to this, except for the carping of holier-than-thou bloggers who’ve never changed employers for more money or wrestled with how a career decision will affect his family.
Gimme a break.
By The Other Blogger Known as Billy
November 29, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
Afternoon everyone.
I did not read all of the post so this may have been answered. If the mets offer glavine 12 million (which would be 15 million with the buyout)why did they not pick up the option at 14 million? I dont think the mets will offer 12 million. They may offer 9 million.
By Shaun
November 29, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this
Paul,
You may be right about Jeter’s hitting, he may be slightly better. But Ripken’s best seasons came in a low run-scoring era and Jeter’s best seasons came in some of the best run-scoring seasons ever. I’d say it’s not that clear cut as to who is the better hitter.
But most people who look at fielding in depth would say Ripken was a much better defensive player.
After farther review, I say it’s closer than I thought but I’d still give an edge to Ripken.
By berigan
November 29, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this
Grinch, great news about Lew! Don’t know if this link has been posted before, but another site for newspaper stories on trade rumors (All Red Sox, all the time right now) http://www.prosportsdaily.com/mlb/mlbrumors.html
By Matthew
November 29, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
Grinch and JJS:
I see your points, and I cannot argue with them. The only thing I can think of is that maybe he changed while he was in NY, and realized that he made a mistake in going there in the first place. I obviously don’t know, but perhaps he really wants to come back and wants to know that he is wanted. As for him leaving NY, jjs, in my view there’s no loyalty issue to consider. His contract has been mutually terminated, and he was only there a short time. He didn’t come up in the Mets’ minor league system, and then spend the better part of two decades leading the Mets to championship seasons. I guess the Red-colored glasses are blurring my objectivity a bit, but I hope that he returns. Then he, Smoltzy, and Bobby Cox can win another title together, then end their careers on a high note (if they so choose, like Elway).
I guess I’m just a softie.
By ncscoots
November 29, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this
DJ, could you mention a leadoff hitter of whom you are enamored, since you think it’s a “desperate need” for the Braves? Someone you think can change the club into “championship caliber”? And explain how that player could so significantly impact the offense? And then might you describe who you might trade to get that player, or otherwise explain how to fit it in the budget? Seriously, I’m interested in your thoughts, enlighten me.
By Dawan
November 29, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this
No matter what the braves can’t sign Glavine until the cap room has been cleared through a trade for his salary but at the same time don’t forget Glavine only had one good season with the Mets, remember the first 3. We need to look for some young promising talent and not waste our money. We still need a leftfielder/leadoff hitter and relief help. Sorry guys but #47 is not the answer.
By gpburdell
November 29, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this
C’mon Braves…bring Tommy back. That would further solidify a pretty strong rotation.
By ncscoots
November 29, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this
Billy, as I understand it, there was a gentlemen’s agreement between Glavine and Wilpon to not pick up either the player OR team option, in order to give Glavine a chance to return to the Braves if he and they so desired. Say what you will about the Mets (and I say a lot, but that’s another post), that’s a class move on the part of an organization that hasn’t been known for many in recent history.
By Joe Fan
November 29, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
Regarding Shoeless Joe Jackson…I live in Greenville, SC where he was from. When the Greenville Braves moved to Pearl Mississippi they were replaced by the Capital City Bombers of Columbia. A single A team of the Boston Redsox. They remained the Greenville Bombers the first year while a new name was chosen.
First choice was the Greenville Joes or Shoeless Joes. but MLB said that the team could not be named after or in honor of a banned player so the team is called the Greenville Drive.
Last year they played their first season in West End field which is a mini replica of Fenway. On the site they moved Shoeless Joe Jackson’s house which will open as a Museum in his honor.
Also in Greenville stands a Bronze statue to his honor. There is a campaign call “Hall Yes” trying to get the banned lifted and get him inducted.
By Bravo Nam
November 29, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this
Lew
Get well and come back to the fold as soon as you can.
DOB
Dontrelle Willis- any chance the Braves make a run at him?
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
Haven’t read all the posts today so don’t know if anyone mentioned this, but the report on Counsell to padres was premature. Now looks like he could go to Brewers as utility guy. That probably means Giles trade to Padres still a good possibility. But I know several other teams are also in hunt for Giles, but don’t know exactly which ones so I won’t bother guessing….
Berigan, you wrote: “Well, if Glavine is offered 12 Million, vs 8 Million from the braves, Plus the gets 3 million buyout from the Mets as well, that is only 1 million difference.”
Not the case. The $3 mill buyout has been misunderstood and misrepresented everywhere. It was agreed to basically as a reward for Glavine renegotiating and deferring money last summer, and he was assured of the “buyout” at that time. So it has NO EFFECT on negotiations; I asked specifically, thinking along same lines that you did.
So if Mets offer him $10 mill now and Braves offer him $7 mill, the $3 mill buyout doesn’t even the offers. He already got the $3 mill, and if he returns to the Mets it doesn’t apply to his salary or anything else. That money doesn’t matter in negotiations.
If he gets at two-year, $22 mill offer from the Mets and a one-year, $8 mill offer from the Braves, he’d be leaving $14 mill on the table (and I’m just using figures here, not any offers that have been made, far as I know).
By The Other Blogger Known as Billy
November 29, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this
Glavine will come back for Glavine and honestly I cant see why people blame the man for leaving in the first place. Just as you do whats best for you and your family everday. You tell me that you would have more loyalty to your employer than to turn down more money to work for his competitor?
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this
Berigan, you also wrote: “DOB, is there ANY chance the Braves might just release him instead of paying him 5+ million next year? I mean, I know that sounds crazy, but then again, J.S. traded a useless commodity(A 20 game winner) for a minor league catcher once.”
NO, there’s no chance. They’ve got teams they could trade him to now, just trying to get best return. I’d guess it’ll happen before end of winter meetings.
By Bravo Nam
November 29, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this
On second thought, Dontrell Willis sucks. He should be used as a WR along with Michael Vick. I say lets bring back Kevin Millwood. Braves need so much help.
By TommyB
November 29, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this
Possible Way Around the No-Trade Clause Issue…
Why not just do it with a “gentleman’s agreement?”
It happens. The Mets apparently gave TG one re: not picking up his option this year. I can remember a bunch of instances with others that have been reported in the past.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this
Rammerjammer, if your job in Atlanta was the only job you’d ever had, and the same company had already paid you 80 million dollars by the time you were 37, saw you were due for a raise and offered you 30 more million over the next three years…then company B in New York (the one your current company has been in a heated rivalry with since around the time you were born) offers you 33 million over the next three years to screw your current company, move up there without your family and help them outdo your old company in the same business you would take that deal? I know it sounds ridiculous, but that’s the only way your logic fits. It’s not the same as leaving one tool and die company in Atlanta (15 dollars an hour) for another one in Lexington for 20 dollars an hour. It just isn’t. Neither you nor I nor anyone here would likely be working at all if we had made 80 million (not counting endorsements) and if we did, we’d probably show some loyalty to those who made us filthy, stinking rich public icons. Or maybe not; I can’t speak for you. I just know I sure as hell would; I need to sleep at night.
By Patrick
November 29, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
Acutally DOB,
I just read that the Counsell deal is done with the Brewers. 2 years plus a club option for 2009.
Link: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
By Matthew
November 29, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
Thansk for the clarification DOB. I misunderstood all along.
So, you mentioned the interest in Giles. Should we expect any real chatter before the winter meetings, or are we condemned to wait until they begin?
Can’t wait for news!
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
Nam _ I don’t see much chance Braves make a run at Willis, because his salary is only going to rise every year. Not unless they are able to trade Hudson and sign Glavine only to a one-year deal, then maybe, maaaybe….
Daybed, the money to negotiate goes mainly to the Japanese club, which is why they’re so willing to let these guys go. They’re making a killing off sending them to the states. If no deal is worked out, the U.S. team gets its posting fee back, which is why there’s no way that Boras declines to accept Red Sox’s best offer for the guy they paid $51 mill bidding fee to talk to. His team in Japan doesn’t want him back, because that $51 mill is going to pay their bills and be down payment for a new stadium. Seriously.
And the pitcher’s not going to want to go back and make $3 mill a year in Japan when he can make three or four times that pitching for Red Sox if they offer $9-12 mill a year.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
The other Billy, of course not if both companies were screwing me (which is the case with most of our jobs). A company that’s made you one of the richest people in the southeast? Yeah, I’d show them some loyalty, especially if the pay difference was negligable and I couldn’t spend what I already had in three lifetimes.
Bravo nam, the Hawks are killing me. At least last year they fell short every game by the beginnig of the 4th quarter. Now it’s comming down to the last basket every night. I don’t know if you get the Thrashers out there or not, but give them a shot. They’ll give you ulcers too, but at least they win more often than not.
Off to the gym; catch y’all later.
By michael
November 29, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
I too hated to see Glavine go to the Mets but I also see the Braves didn’t exactly blow him away with an offer. If they couldn’t come up with the cash the could’ve added that extra year he was looking for, or even thrown in the old “no trade clause”, but they didn’t. Seems like a mutual option to be disloyal exercised by both parties to me.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this
CRAIG COUNSELL SUCKS!!! HEY PATRICK. YOU SUCK?
By Bravo Nam
November 29, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this
Impostor
Is that you, you Stinky little boy?
It had to happen one day, and now it’s happened. Joining the illustrious ranks of Journalist Jimmy, Robert et al.
That 1.10pm post attributed to me was NOT me. It was the smelly little weasel. It’s not the way I write, and it gives the villain away coz the spelling is atrocious.
By the way DOB, my question on Dontrelle still stands. Ignore the 1.10 post.
I bet the Stinky little weasel can’t tell you what time it is in the Nam now- it’s 1.30am- I’m off to bed- any posts on this blog from me over the next 12 hours won’t be from me- just an imposter!
By berigan
November 29, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the clarification on the “buyout”. Also glad to hear there is real interest in Giles. I thought the cards would have been a good fit.
By TJ
November 29, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
Maybe the signing of Counsell by the Brewers will bring all this Glavine stuff to a head. Maybe the Padres were using the possibility of their going with Counsell as a negociating ploy with the Braves. Now that Counsell is no longer available, perhaps this forces the Padres to give JS what he wants for Giles. Once Giles is moved JS has money to do his deal with Glavine (and maybe this also will require an increase and extension for Smoltz).
But that’s alot of maybe.
By rammerjammer
November 29, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
Grinch,
I appreciate your viewpoint.
One other factor in Glavine’s decision back then was his leadership role in the players’ union, which - like all unions - wants the best financial package for its membership.
It wouldn’t have been a good example to take the lower offer, regardless of the relatively small difference in the two.
(One might also ask, why didn’t the Braves nudge their offer just a little higher to keep him? But the time was right for him to leave. He had just imploded in the postseason with an 0-2 record and 15.26 ERA)
Just as it was the right time for him to leave, it’s now the right time for him to come back.
The team needs him to get back on top. Remember, the Mets are already there.
Too, his family wouldn’t be the first to say, ‘hey, we made a mistake in leaving our hometown. Let’s ALL move back.’
I just think that if he was a money-grubbing SOB, he’d have already signed on with NY.
One other point. Not only did the Braves make Glavine “filthy, stinking rich,” he also made them some money, too. Probably both sides slept great.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
Braves fan, you wrote: “If the Braves can wait until after Saturday, Dec 1 to make Glavine an offer, and keep from sending the Mets any draft picks, and still have time before Glavine’s deadline he promised the Mets of Dec 4, why is it such a mystery why they haven’t made an offer yet? I’m no Sherlock Holmes, but it sounds elementary my dear O’Brien. He doesn’t have to make trades before he can sign Glavine.”
Yes, they do have to make a trade or trades, Watson. Because what happens if you sign Glavine on, say, Dec. 2, and a trade you believed you’d get done falls through? What if you’re stuck with no market or an unacceptable proposal (in your view) for, say, Hudson? You’d have to dump him or someone anyway to make Glavine fit into the payroll.
Beyond that, the real potential problem with the Braves not making an offer before the winter meetings is that Glavine told the Mets he’d have a decision by then. The Mets have an agreement with him; they’re letting him explore this thing _ pretty classy by the Mets, really _ long as he lets them know before the meetings so they’ll know whether they need to replace him during the meetings, when a LOT of pitchers could be signed or traded.
But how’s Glavine supposed to make a decision if he has NO IDEA what the Braves would pay him. And the agent told me last night that no dollars had been discussed yet, no offer made by the Braves. If he’s telling the truth _ and I have no reason to believe he’s not _ then how can Glavine just roll the dice, tell the Mets on Saturday that he’s not going back to New York, and assume the Braves will make him a decent offer? Because again, this is a unique situation in that he’s said repeatedly that it’ll only be the Mets or Braves. other teams aren’t in the bidding, which leaves Glavine a bit vulnerable if he were to tell the Mets he’s going to the Braves before he even gets a dollar figure from Atlanta.
Agent also assured me Glavine’s not changing his stance and won’t get other teams involved in what would be a bidding war that would assure Glavine of getting a good contract with someone next season.
By Bravo Nam
November 29, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
HEY TJ,
THAT IS THE DUMBEST THEORY I’VE EVER HEARED. SCREW OFF!!
By Bravo Nam
November 29, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
DOB
This is the real Nam. Will definitely hit the sack in a mo. Thanks DOB for getting back on DW. Good read.
Grinch
Don’t get the Thrashers out here, but still follow them. Wish the original Atlanta team hadn’t gone to Calgary.
Another Imposter
The 1.29pm post clearly was not the Grinch- someone is now imitating him. Nothing like how the Grinch writes- this person is pathetic- and like the little yella feline he is, does it once Grinch has gone ot the gym.
By Carolina Lady
November 29, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
Grinch, thanks for the update on Lew!
I’ve got a feeling that TMG will wind up signing with ATL - 1 year, possibly 2 - for close to what Smoltz makes. He’ll be branded forever as Greedy Glavine if he turns down the opportunity to pitch in the same city as his family ‘cause he’s already made a sizable fortune. Only greed and pride would take him back to NY. Quite frankly, I could care less about having him in ATL except that he wouldn’t be pitching for NYM and he will help fill out the rotation. When was the last time Glavine had a CG? (I haven’t followed him since he left.)
By Q
November 29, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
The Braves don’t have the $
By KC
November 29, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
ChickenGizzard: “KC==the Mets have the dough to fix their starting rotation==Brats don’t.”
ChickenGizzard:
Yes, I agree that the Mets have the money to fix their rotation. However, this year in particular, having money is NO guarantee that they’ll be able to get it done. First of all, it’s not like there is an abundance of great starting pitching on the free agent market. And second, there are a LOT of hands in the cookie jar this year. Here is an excerpt from something that appeared on SI.com yesterday:
“The Cubs, anxious to steal the winter and maybe the summer, too, are now pursuing star free-agent pitcher Jason Schmidt, SI.com has learned. The Cubs already have spent $239 million on free agents (including the $10 million they used for new manager Lou Piniella), and two high-ranking baseball people said they are bidding about $45 million over three years for Schmidt in attempt to lure him away from the West Coast. It may not be easy in his case. The Yankees showed interest in Schmidt several days ago but were told that he didn’t want to move all the away across the country, to New York.”
It’s not just the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers in the hunt for big ticket starters this year. It’s also the Cubs, Cardinals, even the Mariners, and possibly the Angels, White Sox, Astros, and others.
Your ace (Pedro) won’t return until at least half-way through the season, and when he does return, there’s not telling if he’ll be the same pitcher. There is a 90% total recovery rate for pitchers returning from elbow surgery, but not so for shoulder surgery. There is a significant chance that Pedro’s stuff, already diminished by injuries over the years, could wane further after this shoulder surgery.
Glavine is in limbo right now, so the only three starters you really have set for opening day are O.Hernandez, J.Maine, and O.Perez… ouch.
There is going to be a bidding war for Barry Zito, Andy Pettitte (even though he’s coming off a rough season) and even guys like Jeff Suppan. And as I’ve already mentioned, the Mets will be FAR from the only team participating in these bidding wars. There’s maybe 1 or 2 aces on market (Schmidt and Zito), 2 or 3 other quality pitchers, and that’s about it. There are actually more teams looking for starting pitchers than there are quality starting pitcher available, and the Mets need to sign 2 or 3 of them (depending on whether Glavine stays in NY or returns to ATL).
Good luck.
As for Atlanta… Smotlz, Hudson, Hampton, James, Ramirez/Glavine?
The Mets have got a ways to go just to match Atlanta’s rotation heading into next season, let alone to top it.
By john
November 29, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
what’s up with the imposters. hey guys - i like all of your thoughts/ideas with glavine.
By Stinky
November 29, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
Bravo Nam, Why would I try to impersonate you? You blog like a girl.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
OK, for the record, here’s the difference in the offers Glavine got when he left Atlanta and went to New York after the 2002 season:
He got a three-year, $35 million deal from the Mets, which included a vesting fourth-year option to make the deal worth $42.5 million.
The final offer he got from the Braves was a three-year, $30 million proposal, and Glavine was also upset they asked him to defer $10 mill without interest in the final two years of the deal.
By Bravo Nam
November 29, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
IMPOSTER
The real Nam did not enter the 1:40pm blog.
DOB
This is the real Nam this time. Will definitely hit the sack by 2:30.
STOP IMPOSTERING STINKY!!! Everyone is impostering everyone. Stop it. Stop it!!!
By Carolina Lady
November 29, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
Now, Stinky. “You blog like a girl”?? sigh. :-))
By TennesseePaul
November 29, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this
I don’t understand some of this. There appears to be a few commplaints that the Braves haven’t signed any free agents. What free agent in that scrap heep would you want? A career .249 hitter prior to last season, i.e. Matthews Jr. A guy with no arm, i.e. Pierre. A guy that strikes out 160+ times and can’t play defense, i.e. Soriano. And a slew of over hyped pitchers. All of the above going for more than Smoltz is making. More than Chipper is making. And about the same amount Andruw is currently making. I’m glad to see JS isn’t out there “competing” for average, to below average, players.
He’s going to build a winner. Didn’t you read the book? ;-). I have faith he’ll put a good team on the field next year. I look forward to them winning it all.
By KC
November 29, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
DOB:
What’s the deal on this report from B.Shanks on Scout.com?? You have to be an “Insider” (or whatever they call it) to read the report. I guess he’s indicating that Glavine’s leaning toward Atlanta?
Was this report made before or after your conversation with Greg Clifton. If that report is from today… surely not that much has changed in 24 hours. Anything to this report?
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 29, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
-I took myself -for a strong and loving soul.
-I FOUND MYSELF -face down on the bar room floor.
-CRYING “MY GOD!” -What has become of me?”
DOB,
Now that Kennedy has signed with the Cards, where does that leave Belliard? Could he possibly stand in the way of a potential Giles trade? Do you do any old Texas country? Jerry Jeff Walker style? And what exactly is Backslider’s Wine?
By np
November 29, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
Again, something I posted earlier that no one has addressed. The Mets HAVE to offer Glavine arbitration by rule, or they can not sign him until May 1st. That’s how it works. There is no way they will not offer him arbitration, and there is no way that Braves are not aware of this, and there is no way that this is a reason for the delay. In this case, the Braves will be still losing picks if they sign him after Dec 1st.
By IMPOSTER
November 29, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
I AM AN IMPOSTER. STOP ME IF YOU CAN.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this
One other point on his Mets deal: The 2006 option climbed to $10.5 mill when he pitched 600 innings over 2003-05 (or 200 inn in 2005; he hit both triggers), of which $5.25 mill was to be deferred at 6-percent interest.
Glavine and the Mets renegotiated the option-year salary last May, reducing the salary back to $7.5 mill while adding another option year for 2007, either a $7.5 mill player option or $14 mill club option ($12 mill option jumped to $14 mill with 180 innings pitched). Also had a $2 mill All-Star incentive for 2007, so could’ve made $16 mill if Mets had picked up the club option.
Glavine and the team agreed at that time that team wouldn’t unilaterally pick up its option if Glavine wanted to explore opportunity to return to Braves. There was a $3 mill “buyout” in the renegotiated deal, but it was understood that money was really just a reward for Glavine agreeing to reduce his 2006 salary, and it was called a buyout for payroll reasons so it could be carried over to 2007.
The $7.5 mill player option was so low only because its purpose was to serve as insurance for Glavine, in case he had a bad season or got hurt or whatever. He could exercise the option and get the money.
By Stinky
November 29, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
He started it, CL.
By KC
November 29, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
DOB:
I mentioned this yesterday, but is a no-trade clause really that big a deal in Glavine’s case?? Isn’t it considered questionable baseball etiquette to trade a big free agent in his first or only year of a new contract with a new team? I can’t remember Atlanta ever doing that. I can’t imagine that Glavine would have much fear of being traded from Atlanta at any point during the season.
If there was a second vesting year offered on the contract, couldn’t he place an opt-out clause after the first season, allowing him to feel the situation out (to make reasonable sure that the Braves still want him) before committing to the second year?
I have a hard time picturing the no-trade being much of a factor here. Am I wrong?
By DJ
November 29, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this
DJ, could you mention a leadoff hitter of whom you are enamored, since you think it’s a “desperate need” for the Braves? Someone you think can change the club into “championship caliber”? And explain how that player could so significantly impact the offense? And then might you describe who you might trade to get that player, or otherwise explain how to fit it in the budget? Seriously, I’m interested in your thoughts, enlighten me.
NCScoots
There are several guys that come to mind that would fill our need for a legitimate lead-off hitter: Ryan Freel, Brian Roberts, Carl Crawford, Dave Roberts, Brandon Phillips, etc. They all possess the speed at the top of the order and have decent OBP. It is a desperate need because we need a base stealing threat and someone that can consistently get on base, which is the impact that he would make right away.
I menioned a handful of probables that could be traded, not to mention the decent minor league system we can offer up a couple of players as well.
If you know of a better solution to solidify us as a “championship caliber” squad for ‘07, then I am all eyes to view your blog. By the way the “championship caliber” terminology is used all the time by Schuerholtz, and not yours truly.
By Stinky
November 29, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
Not that you post like a girl, CL. That last post was right on. Glavine’s only worth at this point is the innings he eats for us and not them.
He also probably doesn’t want to try to win #300 in NY. The media attention would be stifling.
By ray
November 29, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
I understand JS reluctance in giving Glavine a no-trade clause because he doesn’t want to open up that can for future situations. I am sure the two (if their relationship is strong enough) could come to a verbal on the non-trade. On the surface it would be a compromise that both parties could live with. Are there any further rumors or talks regarding a lead off man. Apparently Dave Roberts has priced himself too high for the Braves. Do we have what the Devil Ray’s would want for Carl Crawford?
By DGD
November 29, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
DOB—Your sportswriter counterpart in the Washington Post, Michael Wilbon, today said that the “Falcons are the only pro sports team in Georgia that fans care about.” What do you think about that?! I personally think that a writer who mainly covers basketball and football and who lives in the north should avoid making gratuitous insulting comments about Braves fans……….!!!
By journalist jimmy smith
November 29, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
think through this loyalty thing … sure tommy came up in atlanta and yes, he left for more money. no problem there. the other team offered more and he made a career decision. bye, bye, tommy. but now he may want to come back to atlanta - guess it depends on what the braves may decide to pay. there are bloggers here talking about loyalty - and this journalist doesn’t interpret that to be “tommy’s lack of loyalty to the braves” for leaving. it’s a business and tommy’s a union guy. cold, dispassionate. maybe even reasoned. certainly not emotional. jimmy smith is saying that maybe tg should show some emotion/loyalty for the team that paid him when the braves wouldn’t. that little sign from 2006 is not a championship. the mets and tg have some unfinished business - or do they? a fedex driver might switch to ups for 50 cents per hour more but why would a mlb player who has millions trifle (yes, trifle) with offers if he has a conviction that he should return home? if his conviction is strong, act on it. if it is a negotiating ploy, with his team’s rotation devastated and all the uncertainty that comes with that - it seems he owens them more than he’s apparently giving. in any case, loyalty really should work more than just one way. has he no loyalty for the mets? they certainly committed the dollars to make a championship run. he certainly disappointed for three years before re-inventing himself. what if tommy had won that last playoff game …
oh, the humanity! this is an emotional topic. imagine if diane lane said she might want to come back to you if she doesn’t have to cook and somebody is already cooking for her! she doesn’t have to cook now! what does she want? wink, wink.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
Rammerjammer, if your job in Atlanta was the only job you’d ever had, and the same company had already paid you 80 million dollars by the time you were 37, saw you were due for a raise and offered you 30 more million over the next three years…then company B in New York (the one your current company has been in a heated rivalry with since around the time you were born) offers you 33 million over the next three years to screw your current company, move up there without your family and help them outdo your old company in the same business you would take that deal? I know it sounds ridiculous, but that’s the only way your logic fits. It’s not the same as leaving one tool and die company in Atlanta (15 dollars an hour) for another one in Lexington for 20 dollars an hour. It just isn’t. Neither you nor I nor anyone here would likely be working at all if we had made 80 million (not counting endorsements) and if we did, we’d probably show some loyalty to those who made us filthy, stinking rich public icons. Or maybe not; I can’t speak for you. I just know I sure as hell would; I need to sleep at night.
valid points as the rest of the answers to my question…..
But 1 million dollars is a million dollars.
By Stinky
November 29, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
Hey, I’ve got an idea - Carl Crawford.
By KC
November 29, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
ray:
I’m nearly positive that JS is just as unlikely to offer a verbal no-trade promise as he is to issue a written one.
I’m sure that when that issue is raised, JS will point to the Braves history of trading away free agents. As I’ve mentioned, I can’t remember the Braves ever signing a big free agent and then trading that player away during the first or only season of a new contract. I think JS will simply point to that history for reassurance.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this
How come Carl Crawford keeps comming up. Their has been no substatinal information linking that guy to us.
SI.com is a better source instead of MLBtraderumors.com if your looking for info on Counsel.
By kj
November 29, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this
lets just bring back murphy to play right field, we can put horner at 3b, hubbard at 2b, ramirez at ss, chambliss at 1b, bruce benedict at c, lf we can have albert hall, and in cf we can have brett bulter phil neikro, rich mahler, pascual perez, rick camp, steve bedrosian, terry forester can pitch for us, what do you think lol
By 22oz
November 29, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
DOB: i have a mission for you should you choose to accept it: get one of the braves to change their theme song when they come to the plate to Johnny Cash’s “Rusty Cage”. its such a badass song, especially when the electric guitar kick in. it’d be the perfect plate walkup song.
By KC
November 29, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this
ray:
Forgot to mention… Crawford is a great player, young, and (especially by the standards being established in this year’s market) very affordable. That makes him the perfect player for a team like TB.
The only scenario under which they might be anxious to trade him would be if he were in line for a large arbitration raise or were eligible for free agency after next season. I don’t think the former applies, and I know that latter doesn’t apply.
Bottom line… the D-Rays aren’t trading Crawford unless they are overwhelmed by what would ultimately be a lopsided deal (in their favor). Carl Crawford is likely unattainable right now.
By KC
November 29, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
kj
I perfer Gerald Perry at 1B!
By Braves fan from Kennesaw
November 29, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this
I like Tommy a lot, but to be honest, I think he would now be a “nice to have” rather than a “necessity”.
Agreed with many comments before me, as broken as the team was last season, had we got Bob Wickman 3 months sooner, we might have won the division or at least got to playoff.
What we need now is one or two reliable releif pitchers and a reliable and speedy lead-off man.
As for Ramirez, please, JS or BC tell him that he’d better be in top physical form this spring training. Last year he looked (almost) too fat to be a starting pitcher.
For Davies, he has good stuff. Just have to learn to adapt as all hitter in the NL now know his pitches. Ohh . . also have to learn to concentrate more on the next pitch and not the past ones.
Go Braves !!!
By Carolina Lady
November 29, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this
KJ, what about Claudell? :-)
By BillyBoy
November 29, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this
Did JS go to Glavine’s house again, without Clifton knowing about it, like he did before and that is why we have this rumor???? Could have very well happened.
Agents don’t know every move their clients make, right Boras. Andruw snuck one by you, too. Clifton will know Tom’s intentions when Tom wants him to know.
By kj
November 29, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this
honestly i think what the braves need to improve on most is speed at the top of the lineup, starting pitching did well last year, not great but well. all the years with furcal leading off gave us speed, you get speed on the basepaths, and you can mess with a pitchers head, furcal, lofton, and nixon all speed so i think we need to concentrate on that, i honestly think crawford is the best fit, be won’t be getting him, you can always go after a corey patterson, or brian roberts from baltimore, or hanley ramirez from florida, they would be dumb to do it but florida loves to trade talent for prospects here is my far fetched trade that i would like to seee atlanta braves and cleveland indians c.c. sabathia for horacio ramirez josh barfield marcus giles grady sizemore andruw jones
what do you think? I know far fetched buti like it , lol
By MadduxRules
November 29, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this
KC,
Actually, I believe that the White Sox could have obtained Crawford for McCarthy and another prospect.
MadduxRules
By Greg in TN
November 29, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
KJ,
Loved that post. It’d be tough for us to break Bruce Benedict away from his basketball referee gig, and if we can’t get Tommy Glavine, we can always bring back Tommy Gregg.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
J.P. Ricciardi
Does this guy ever not hang players out to dry in the media? This is whats great about JS. Why would a free agent want to go their. This is like the second or thrid time in a year he has outed a player.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/29/bc.bba.bluejays.zaun.ba.ap/index.html
By Greg in TN
November 29, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
And we can bring back Claudell, but that would have to hinge on whether the Reds can bring back Mario Soto. If memory serves, C-Dub and Soto had a few knockdown dragouts…
By KC
November 29, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
kj:
The Braves were the best offensive team in the league last year without a true leadoff hitter. So it’s hard to say that anything having to do with the lineup is the biggest thing the Braves need to worry about. Don’t get me wrong, I’m on record as stating that I’d like to see the Braves acquire a leadoff hitter, but make no mistake… pitching was the problem last year, not the lack of a leadoff hitter.
Having said that, I actually think our rotation is in pretty good shape next year, with or without Glavine. I believe it is likely that Hudson will perform better next year than he did last season.
Statistically, there is only a 10% of Hampton showing any ill effects whatsoever from the Tommy John surgery 18 months after the fact. The vast majority of pitchers that struggle in their first year back from that procedure, struggle because they return mostly because the return after only 12 months. He’ll have to shake off some rust, but he’ll be fine.
The Braves still have Smoltzy and a good young lefty in Chuck James. Also, Horacio Ramirez has a great deal more ability than many people realize, and when healthy, actually piched pretty well this season overall. If the Braves don’t get Glavine, they’ll just have to hope that Horacio can stay healthy. If not, Davies or Cormier can step in as a 5th starter for a while. That wouldn’t be the end of the world.
All in all, I think the rotation looks good next season. The bullpen will be completely fixed by opening day. But again, the offense is good, with or without a leadoff hitter.
By Carolina Lady
November 29, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
Stinky, I sorta think he thought he would already have 300 by now and would retire a NYM. He had 3 underwhelming years up there that really cost him in wins.
I’ll never know, of course, but I do believe that if I had $100,000,000.00+ already, and if I wanted to finish my career in a specific place, especially if it would please my family, I wouldn’t really quibble over not getting a lot of extra millions to add to the existing fortune.
(Thankfully, I don’t require fancy mansions, exotic cars, fabulous wardrobes, etc! I’m happy with what I have. Except JDeere.) :-)))
By Jeffrey
November 29, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this
As we talk of 2007, does anyone know yet whether Schuerholz or Cox will be back in 2008 or are they hitting the door after 2007? An answer to that may determine what if any moves the Braves will make. They could have the attitude that it will be new owners and new management in 2008 so let them worry about the team.
By Voice of Reason
November 29, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this
DOB on 680 the Fan at 4:30…
By KC
November 29, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
MadduxRules:
You could be right… but don’t believe everything you read.
By KC
November 29, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
Jeffrey:
I’m not sure what their contract situations are, but both have indicated that they’re very happy where they are and have no plans of leaving or retiring in the foreseeable future. Neither are ready to retire, and why would they want to go anyplace else??? They both have a pretty darn near perfect situation in Atlanta.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
22oz, I couldn’t agree with you more about Cash’s version of “Rusty Cage” as a come-to-bat intro song. Unfortunately, don’t know that any of the current Braves have such hip or adventurous tastes to make it happen.
Imagine if we were permitted to program all of those songs? Oh, the possibilities…. Some Cash, some Metallica off the “St. Anger” album, some Clash, some David Allen Coe for the young’uns who like those candy-a@@ pop-country hat bands. Imagine Coe’s twang intoning, “If that ain’t country, I’ll kick your …” (well, they’d have to edit that or cut it at the right moment).
Anyway, it’d be fun. Alas, not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.
The Mets, by the way, play some great tunes as part of their in-game entertainment, showing the Raconteurs’ video on the jumbotron before the games, playing the Zombies’ “Time of the Season” during the season highlight reel showed on the board during the postseason games, etc.
By Rick Roberts
November 29, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
The vast majority of us want Tommy back and the Braves should do it—on Saturday, as discussed. Hudson to Baltimore for Penn and Loewen—probably have to pick up some money, too, or add a prospect. The O’s are building a pitching staff and Hudson would finish it off well for them. Giles and someone to SD for Linebrink—overpay, if we have to. To get Crawford, the Braves would have to sent Salty to the DRays, which is okay. Would take more, of course, which we should do—Ramirez, Davies, Escobar—some combo. To get Glavine, Crawford, and Linebrink would set us up well for next year. Regarding AJ, looks like JS will keep him until next July deadline, at least. Of course, he would bring a first round draft pick next year, too. Might as well keep him in his ‘contract’ year—might hit 50 HR’s.
By Carl Crawford
November 29, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
Are you people talking about me? Do I know you? Are you obsessed or something? Are you stalkers? Should I watch my back? Would you please leave me alone?
Thank you.
By Matthew
November 29, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
Someone may have already posted this, but the Counsell deal is apparently on the books:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/transactions
2 years with an option for a third to the Brewers-does this mean that a Giles trade may happen sooner rather than later, and even more importantly, does a Glavine signing hinge on tradign Giles AND HoRam, or do we just need to trade one of them?
By TKG
November 29, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
Hello Mr. Crawford,
Believe me … No one wishes your name would disappear from this blog more than me … Not even you. I think most of us understand you’re staying in lovely Tampa b/c the DRays have you on the cheap for the next four years and would be crazy to trade you — even for Salty, HoRam and Davies.
Good luck next season … in Tampa.
By Carl Crawford
November 29, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
I also like the beaches. Very nice. A Salty HoRam sounds like a sandwich. Anything like a Cuban? There is nothing like Ybor in Atlanta. Very nice.
Well, thanks for your best wishes and good luck to the Braves!
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
I think JS should and is going to do whaat is best for the team not what the sentimental choice would be. Like someone said earlier I dont think he is a necessity (although I would love to see him back in ATL) but a desire.
or
Need vs Want
We want him dont need him.
By CO Burdette
November 29, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
The last thing the Atlanta Braves (and the city of Atlanta) needs is “Mr. Met”. Where was all this concern for his family when he turned down the Braves offer and signed with the Mets?
That finished it for me.
By Drummerdad
November 29, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady, I agree with your sentiment about Glavine’s decision, but I’m not sure if he can boil it down to that. Regarding the lawnmower, I think you have hashed this out on here before, but I’ll wade in anyway. I have an acre. For 6 years I have sufferred through a Craftsman. My Dad liked Sears products so I gave it a try. This is not my father’s Craftsman. I will probably buy a new machine this winter or early spring. Am seriously considering a Snapper. They haven’t produced a lower line machine t be sold at Lowes or HD. You have to buy them from an independant dealer. Their riding mowers seems to hold up well even though you don’t get as wide a cut unless you spend the really big lawnmower bucks. I’ll take the relaibility over the wide cut.
I don’t know about the rest of you folks, but this waiting for some player movement is getting old. Fingers and finger nails gettting tired from hanning in there!! Reminds me of Jerry Clower. “Just shoot up here amongst us, cuz one of us has gotta have some relief!!!”
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
I think the budget is killing our mobility more than actually signing the people. If you understand what I am saying. To do one thing JS has to accomplish two other things, and those effect 80 million big things.
By Howie from Poughkeepsie
November 29, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
Someone keeps referring to the Mets not getting Glavine’s services until May 1 if they don’t offer arb now (the ‘Roger Clemens’ thing). Thats ‘old agreement’. With the new agreement between MLB and the union signed, this is no longer the case.
By Jim
November 29, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this
To really measure how good a team is offensively, one would have to look at the number of games that the team scored 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or more runs and then relate that to the probability of a win (for the entire league) 0 runs = 0% chance, 1 run = something probably no higher than 5%, etc. Then you multiply the probability of a win times the number of games in which you scored each of these number of runs and add them up and you would get the number of expected wins that the offense produced. You use the league average for each run category to separate out the contribution of the offense from that of the pitching and defense. A team might actually win more or less of these games if its pitching and defense is better than average or worse than average, but we just want to compare offenses so each team is playing agains the league average.
What this type of analysis would do would indicate how consistent a team’s offense is. A team with a lot of games in which they score 6+ runs but a lot of other games in which they score 2 or fewer, might pad their offensive statistics (runs, hits, hrs., etc.) but not necessarily be as good an offensive team (in terms of games won by the offense) as some of those with lesser pure stats. I don’t know if the sabermetrics people have considered this stat, but I think it is the best measure of the offensive capability of a team.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
I don’t know about the rest of you folks, but this waiting for some player movement is getting old. Fingers and finger nails gettting tired from hanning in there!! Reminds me of Jerry Clower. “Just shoot up here amongst us, cuz one of us has gotta have some relief!!!”
Sure you did not say this last year. Then Edgar Rentria joined our team. Which looks more and more like a great trade. Im getting anxious too. Be nice when the winter meeting start.
By DCarp23
November 29, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
Not to drag up the steroids argument from yesterday, but Jim Caple wrote what I feel to be a strong article for the inclusion of the accused in the Hall.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/offbase/061129&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2
By rammerjammer
November 29, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
If the GM was someone other than JS, I’d be concerned. But to quote former Tennessee Vols announcer John Ward (when describing an outstanding play by a veteran star), “He’s played this game before.”
It could be lots worse. We could be Orioles fans.
By NCBravesFan
November 29, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
Billy,
I agree that JS will do what he thinks is in the best interests of the team … however, Glavine would be a huge step toward solidifying the rotation. More importantly, it would put a lot of pressure on the Mets to spend huge $$ or make a trade to get a front-line starter.
In my book, Glavine to the Braves would at this moment make the Braves the favorites to win the East next year. The Mets would have to play catch-up over the winter.
By berigan
November 29, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
Carl Crawford , is that really you? How is Lenny Doin’? Is Homer staying out of trouble???
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
Why must peopole turn baseball into a complicated math game. Sabermetrics are a joke IMO. Did the white sox use sabermetrics? How ‘bout the Cardinals? Has any team that has won the World Series in the last five years employed sambermetrics as their main philisophy for building a team?
To really measure how good a team is offensively, one would have to look at the number of games that the team scored 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or more runs and then relate that to the probability of a win (for the entire league) 0 runs = 0% chance, 1 run = something probably no higher than 5%, etc.
Or you could take the total number of runs they score divide by 162 and that should give you and idea of how potent their offence is.
By homet
November 29, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this
Atlanta has ENOUGH “EGO” players already (Example Mike “the finger” vick!)…We absolutely DO NOT need Mr. UNION 1st Glavine back here in a braves uniform…The Braves have enough problems without Glavine!!!
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
NCBravesFan,
I agree….until they sign Barry Zito. And they will sign him wheather they sign Tom or not. Then they even it up to a certian degree.
By the way, looks like for the forseeable future I will be a “NC fan” as well. I’m in Winston Salem…you?
I miss Atlanta. *sigh
By berigan
November 29, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
DOB, a song off of Metallica’s St. Anger for a brave’s hitter to hit to??? Man, I have heard more people bash, just bash that record, uhmm, I mean cd. Glad someone besides myself sees and hears the merits of that cd!
By journalist jimmy smith
November 29, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
glavine had two good games against the braves. does anyone remember what happened time after time to tg when he pitched against the braves? it was not pretty for tg. can you imagine the mets batters facing tg and waiting for that 80 mph heater? if cold ringfinger sets in make that a 78 mph heater. oh, well, there is some sentiment for tg to come back from some fans. bring him on if he can win some games. could that money be spent to keep andruw? oh, the humanity! foget that thought! we can bring andruw back for ten games in about six years. now, the lawn mower discussion … whither the deere? it would seem that the good folks at john deere might make a good will gesture toward carolina lady since she has not received good service from this machine. perhaps jimmy smith will put baby seal on this project. where did jimmy smith put ralph deere’s number?
By ZB Pike
November 29, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
I think Glavine will be an asset next year, but, it seems like we are mortgaging 2-3 years down the road to bring him back…just my opinion…how likely is it he will be dominant in 2 years? Also, we really don’t want to start this whole…we’ll get this guy so the Mets have to spend more (a la NY and Bos)…we’d lose that war with an 80M budget.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
Let me get in on this trade idea. M. Giles/H. Ramirez to WS for F. Garcia. Think it would be enough?
By Jim Caple
November 29, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
And finally … Jay Buhner is on the Hall of Fame ballot as well, and while his 310 career home runs and strong arm won’t get him many votes, this is as good a time as any to mention once again the classic moment from “Seinfeld,” when George Steinbrenner shows up at the Costanzas’ home with the bad news that he believes their son, George, is dead.
Estelle (crying): “I can’t believe it, he was so young. How could this have happened?”
Steinbrenner: “Well, he’d been logging some pretty heavy hours, first one in in the morning, last one to leave at night. That kid was a human dynamo.”
Estelle: “Are you sure you’re talking about George?”
Steinbrenner: “You are Mr. and Mrs. Costanza?”
Frank (yelling): “What the hell did you trade Jay Buhner for?!? He had 30 home runs, over 100 RBIs last year, he’s got a rocket for an arm, you don’t know what the hell you’re doin’!!”
Steinbrenner: “Well, Buhner was a good prospect, no question about it. But my baseball people love Ken Phelps’ bat. They kept saying ‘Ken Phelps, Ken Phelps.’”
Buhner may not deserve a plaque on the wall in Cooperstown, but that scene should be playing on an endless loop somewhere in the Hall.
By TennesseePaul
November 29, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
DCarp23: Thanks for that link. That was one of the best articles I’ve read of late on the matter. And the Seinfeld scene he references is one of my favorites. LOL.
By NCBravesFan
November 29, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
Billy,
Safe to say if the Bravos land Glavine, the Mets better sign BZ! (Or hope that Pedro can get a body translplant and Steve Trachsel can grow a heart.)
Funny - I lived in WS until early May - right across from the School of the Arts. I moved to Greensboro — a little more happening here it seems, and it’s a lot closer to work.
WS is def not the ATL!
By Voice of Reason
November 29, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
Nice job, DOB, on the radio. Big plugs from Kincade for the blog, huh?
By Rodger
November 29, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
Plugs for the blog, but not the denizens…Oh, the humanity!
By TennesseePaul
November 29, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
Braves general manager John Schuerholz still won’t publicly comment on the club’s potential interest in Glavine. But the veteran pitcher’s agent, Gregg Clifton, told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution late Tuesday night that there has been some dialogue.
—Mark Bowman
Even during the offseason Bowman is finding a way to copy you DOB. This guy is relentless.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 29, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
raisins, tell us about the interview …
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/john_donovan/11/29/mcgwire.hof/index.html
great article
By Stinky
November 29, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this
Its 5:09. Time for the Barney Song.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this
NP, you wrote: “Again, something I posted earlier that no one has addressed. The Mets HAVE to offer Glavine arbitration by rule, or they can not sign him until May 1st. That’s how it works.”
No, you’re wrong. That’s how it WORKED. The new labor agreement eliminated that rule. Absolutely nothing now to prevent a team from continuing to negotiate with guys it fails to offer arbitration to, just like other teams.
Again, there’s NO MAY 1 RULE ANY MORE.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this
What was the purpose of the 1 May rule to begin with….anyone know?
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly, just saw your 2:11 post about Texas country. Not a big fan of Jerry Jeff Walker (too much like a country Buffett to me), but I’m a huge fan of Texans like Steve Earle, Townes Van Zant, Guy Clarke, Willie, Billy Joe Shaver, James McMurtry, and so many others. Also like a lot of Lyle Lovett’s stuff.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this
Jeffrey, at 3:02 you asked: As we talk of 2007, does anyone know yet whether Schuerholz or Cox will be back in 2008 or are they hitting the door after 2007? An answer to that may determine what if any moves the Braves will make.
ANSWER: There is no answer to that. only they know, if even they do. They both say they’re taking it year by year, going as long as they feel good and the team wants them back. At this point, if I had to guess I’d say both will return in 2008.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this
Man, I’m exhausted. Thanks for that, Stinky; it took the first 6 songs off my I-pod at the gym before I got that %$#% out of my head. I loathe you. Speaking of music…Berigan and DOB I hate to inform you of this but I see it is neccessary. The members of Metallica all died in a tragic bus accident in 1987 following the release of their alblum “Master of Puppets.” “…and justice for all,” their fourth and final alblum, had just been recorded and was released posthumously in 1988. I know, I know…I loved them too (and y’all aren’t the only ones I’ve met who are still in denial). I have a shoulder if you guys need it. :-)
Btw, the 1:29 post wasn’t me, though I’m sure you all know that already.
By Peggy R
November 29, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this
He pitched the winning World Series game for us—certainly the only one I can remember and is still very much a player. I would love to have him back.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this
Berigan, the St. Anger CD is adrenaline-pumping tuneage perfect for working out, driving, or breaking things. I love it.
If you haven’t seen the “Some Kind of Monster” movie on Metallica, you must go to blockbuster NOW and rent it. watch it all, including the extras. Great stuff.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this
Grinch, did someone put psilocybin in your gatorade bottle while you had your head turned at the gym? That post on Metallica was very far out there, my man.
By gpburdell
November 29, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this
Wasn’t it Little Feat that sang “Oh, Atlanta”? I think it’s great that he wants to come back to the Braves.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
Yes, I’m actually aware that their original bass player was the only one that died in that crash, but I’m hardly alone in thinking that’s when they changed for the worse musically. What was so far out there? Or are you one of those folks who thinks the black alblum was their 1st instead of 5th? No silly cybin; I wish…:-)
By Lew
November 29, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this
Hey Y’all-The artist with the bionic eye is back and functional again. DOB-I understand what Grinch is saying, though I liked Enter Sandman and Unforgiven, myself. A lot of rockers think Metallica never did anything worthwhile after Master of Puppets. A matter of taste, I imagine, but it doesn’t negate the possibility of someone spiking Grinch’s energy drink.
By berigan
November 29, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this
Grinch, No, no, no! Metallica died when they kicked Dave Mustaine out of the band in 1983!!!!! ;)
By Carolina Lady
November 29, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this
Hey, Lew! Great that you’re back on so quickly! All went well?
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the back-up, Lew. I’m actually drinking my energy drink now, and it came spiked from the factory. Bionic eye, huh? So are you actually better, stronger and faster or did the operation just cost six million dollars?
By glove51
November 29, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this
DOB: Well, looks like the Orioles are as stupid as we all hoped they might be. They signed Baez to a 3-year deal @ $19MM.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this
Grinch, I just thought you were being serious, or whatever, about them all dying. I gotta disagree about their worth after Master of Puppets. What about “And Justice For All” and self-titled “Metallica” CDs? Great stuff, to me. And have you heard “St. Anger” that came out couple years ago, or seen that documentary “Some Kind of Monster” on the band? Still rockin’ extremely hard and well, in my opinion.
And Lars Ulrich and James Hetfield are the original members and far from dead, bro.
But I get your point, now that Lew’s claried it.
And welcome back, Lew. Great to hear from you.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
The Baez deal, which was really finalized yesterday, will be matched in stupidity by the pending five-year, $70 mil contract the REd Sox are about to bestow upon a certain Mr. Drew from South Georgia.
Imagine _ a few months ago we were wondering if five years and $70 mill might be enough to re-sign Andruw. That’s now a laughable thought.
By Lew
November 29, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this
Evening Ma’am-Everything went pretty well. I now have an implanted lens in my right eye and it apparently did not stir up the “hornets nest” in the retina as feared. Grinch-I don’t know about $6miliion, but prior to the surgery, my vision was 20-200 and an hour after it was 20-60. It will be dilated until sometime tomorrow, but apparently I can see again with more clarity than before. Just in time for the 07 Wurlitzer season, too. BTW-You noticed I said energy drink and NOT that beverage developed by our traditional rivals in a swamp. DOB-Did you see that good ole KU gave Dartmouth (where I get my surgery done) the worst loss in their history? Sad showing by the Green folks.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this
Nice try, berigan! That little turd needed to be on his own (though I did like Megadeth’s first four alblums also…coincidence?). Though you raised an interesting point: a lot of people aren’t aware that Kirk Hamett was actually a guitar god for several years. I mean he played solos, complex riffs, etc. He wasn’t always someone who anyone with a decent amp who’d been playing for six months could copy. I was severely let down by the black alblum, and Load was so bloody gawd-awful I didn’t bother to “Re-load.” Have they gotten over themselves and gotten back to playing good music? I haven’t bothered to listen to St. Anger, but I’ll take your word for it if you tell me so (you were around during the earlier stuff, I see). I would take DOB’s, but he’s more of a garage music type dude and would therefore probably c** his head to the side like a confused golden retriever if he heard a kick-a* solo. :-) Love ya, Dave…
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this
Oops! Posted that before your reply came through. And justice for all was awesome, that’s why I put in the part about it being their final alblum released after the crash. “Metallica,” (or the black alblum) is actually a good alblum in and of itself, it just kind of let me down because I was looking for them to keep going in that direction I liked. I was just rattling your cage a little in that last post; if you like Albert King (which I’ve heard you say before) you know all about solos.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this
The Red Sox have lost their ever-loving minds. I hope “DL” Drew likes the way the Boston media treats him for loafing. We all thought he was crazy for leaving guaranteed money on the table in LA; guess this proves Boras really is a genius. He must be one hell of a persuasive individual; I’d love to be a fly on the wall during his negotiations.
By Sam
November 29, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this
Hey Guys,
Let’s cut the BS about Glavine. I grew up about a 35 minute drive from where Tom grew up. Yes Tom will sign with the Braves and be back with his olde buddy John Smoltz….plus he will win his 300 victory.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this
Yes, I love solos by the likes of blues gods like Albert King and Buddy Guy, but not by noodling bands like Fish. I still love solos by the Nuge. Have him on the IPod for working out. “Got me in a stranglehold ba-bay…”
Grinch, you gotta see the Metallica “Some Kind of Monster” movie just to see the video they did in the yard at a California max-security prison. Great stuff, with all the inmates into the stuff and rockin’ out. I think it was at Pelican Bay, but could be wrong.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this
Grinch, you dig “Alice In Chains” and/or “Screaming Trees”? Two great, hard-rocking guitar bands from the grunge era whose stuff still holds up long after the bands fell apart (AIC’s Layne Staley is, of course, dead from an overdose, and Mark Lanegan from Screaming Trees now doing great solo stuff).
By journalist jimmy smith
November 29, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this
will this team hire a good toe man before the season begins? the importance of good toe health cannot be over-emphasized. toes are not to be triled with.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this
Nuge has always been and always will be a god. AIC is one of my top ten favorite bands (to me their unplugged alblum was superior to Nirvana’s in every concievable way). Never did listen to Screaming Trees (I thought they were a band like Drivin’ n’ cryin’, I take it I was wrong?). I don’t like Phish, either. Or the Dead for that matter, though I’ve been told by many I just haven’t heard the right stuff.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this
Boras, man, you got to give the man credit. He is probably the best in the buissness. I wonder why more athletes dont hire him. DOB you ever meet Boras? Whats he like. You prob could learn a lot from him.
By Stinky
November 29, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this
Sam, I have some kool aid for you.
**LEW, I’M TYPING VERY LOUDLY AND SLOWLY SO YOU WILL UNDERSTAND ME. I’M GLAD THINGS WENT WELL FOR YOU.
ONE QUESTION. ARE YOU OLD LIKE JIMMY SMITH, OR DID YOU LOOK AT TOO MUCH PORN ON YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN?
AND DID THEY GIVE YOU SOME TRIPPY MEDICINE?
SPEAKING OF MEDS, I JUST TOOK MINE AND I FEEL FINE.
AND JIMMY IS ANCIENT. HE APPARENTLY SAW SANDY KOUFAX AND CY YOUNG PITCH BEFORE THERE WERE NEWSPAPERS. THATS WHY I NOW TRY TO BE KIND TO HIM. ALWAYS BE NICE TO OLD FARTS, SAYS I.
I’M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT JIMMY SMITH BEING A BIT SENILE. HE SEEMS TO THINK THAT BRIAN JORDAN WILL BE LEADING OFF AND PLAYING SECOND. MAN, SO SAD. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT BJ HAS A SPOT IN THE PEN IF HE WANTS IT. HIS VETERAN PRESENCE WILL BE SUCH AN ASSET. NOW IF WE CAN JUST SIGN WICKY.
GOTTA GO. TIME FOR MY MEDS.**
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this
By the way, let me put in a plug for a terrific guitar-heavy band playing at The Earl on Saturday night _ Steve Wynn and the Miracle Three. I’m going, for sure.
For those who may not know, Wynn was the front man for Dream Syndicate, a big college band in the 80s when I was in school. (Oh, and I found out much later, also a a former high school classmate of our own Jeff Schultz in L.A. in the late 70s. I know, Schultz hasn’t held up well).
Believe it or not, those two worked together on on the school paper at University High. Yes, Wynn’s a former sports writer (that should be enough to keep everyone away from the show).
Wynn’s been solo (or with the Miracle Three) for more than a decade and the stuff’s extremely solid and better with every recent album, topped by his most recent, “Tick, Tick, Tick…” an absolute masterpiece that was on a bunch of best-CDs-of-the-year lists in 2005.
He’s a great guitarist and vocalist and his band is extremely proficient, including girlfriend Linda Pitmon, who might be the best girl drummer going in rock today, and just a great drummer, period.
The wall of guitar sound is sort of like Television, another great band from 80s. Technically brilliant playing, but also raw and full of soul.
If you can download a couple songs off that album, try “Killing Me” or “Freakstar.”
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this
LOL,
Quote from MLBtraderumors.com
“Borowski will be 36 next season. *A rotator cuff surfaced in his right shoulder way back in the summer of 2004, but Dr. Lewis Yocum suggested rehab at that time. * A three-year, $12MM deal or something similar could be bad news.”
Well I’m glad he had a rotator cuff, I mean it wouldve been pretty freakish if he did’nt.
I know what he meant but still was funny to me.
By Todd D.
November 29, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this
Schuerholz doesn’t like to give up his draft picks; I wouldn’t be surprised if he was waiting until Saturday to make a deal. As you said, he might be waiting to make another trade, probably of Horacio Ramirez. As far as moneyball goes, this has to appeal to Schuerholz. Getting a veteran starter like Glavine who will create a lot of excitement in Atlanta and put fans in the stands at a reduced price would be great for the team. And having the 1,2,3 punch of Smoltz, Glavine and Hudson would be devastating, especially if they made it to the playoffs. Schuerholz knows that starting pitching wins championships, I just hope the payroll allows for him. Come back to Atlanta, Glavine, I hate seeing you in a Mets uni.
By Tomahawkin
November 29, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this
My little nonsense…I can Credit WhineBrenner and Scott Boras as the two most responsible for ruining the game, especially for the small market teams that haven’t made the playoffs in the last decade…I bet if I met Boras, I would think that he’s probably as big of a p-*ck as there is…
By Jordan
November 29, 2006 07:45 PM | Link to this
Great post, DOB. You’re the man.
By lanceinfl
November 29, 2006 07:45 PM | Link to this
DOB - The lead singer from the screaming trees has been doing some guitars and vocals with Queens of the Stoneage…real cool stuff.
I’m really beginning to doubt JS and his ability to make some noise this offseason. We all know the Status Quo is not going to cut it. Kind of like counting on Reitsma to have a big year
By Greg in TN
November 29, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this
Good to see you back Lew, glad to hear everything went okay. BTW, there is more consumption of other sports drinks in Knoxville for the very same reason.
Did Tom Hicks sit next to Angelos and John Henry at the last owner’s meeting or something? That’s the only thing I can think of that would explain the contract Baez and Drew are getting. The team that signs AJ in 2008 will have to buy Curacao and give it to the man along with a check with a staggering amount of zeros before the decimal place. Bora$ will see to that.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this
How can someone blame just Scott Boras and not Tom Hicks or the fans for paying the ticket prices?
” I would think that he’s probably as big of a p-ck as there is”*
Actually for him to be good at his job I would think he has great charisma.
By Tomahawkin
November 29, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this
“I’m really beginning to doubt JS and his ability to make some noise this offseason. We all know the Status Quo is not going to cut it. Kind of like counting on Reitsma to have a big year”
Lance I’ll cosign on that, Shyt!The way these absurd contracts are going up, barring a trade, I don’t see us doing anything til Christmas, Hell Bring back Otis Nixon to leadoff, worked in 99…
By Tomahawkin
November 29, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this
I’m sure ready to see who gets Hustled into signing J.D. Screw.
What a con-artist
BTW did anyone see Sheffield on Quite Franky wit Stephen A. Smith…Like the Show, but other than WhineBrenner and The Yankees, Stephen A. Doesn’t care about baseball…
By Boinker
November 29, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this
C’mon folks. Quit living in the past! It’s not like Glavine was a fan favourite while he was here. Not only is he a ‘has been’ but other than sentimental reasons which are of no value to a baseball team, why in the world would the Braves sign him and why in God’s name would a true Braves fan want this ‘union’ guy back?? Good riddance and thanks for the memories, Tommy!
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this
Grinch, Screaming Trees were much, much closer to Alice in Chains than Drivin’ and Cryin’. You like AIC, you’ll like Screaming Trees. Just roarin’ guitars and one of the best rock vocalists EVER in Lanegan. Seriously. Get their best-of CD and you’ll be hooked. Great stuff.
And agree with you on AIC _ that unplugged was even better than Nirvana’s, which was terrific.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this
Buying, Curacao might be cheaper than signing AJ.
Lance, glad you reminded me about Lanegan and Queens of the Stoneage. That stuff he did with them was very good, but only a few songs, right? That’s another band Grinch and other not-so-old rockers would dig, I’d bet. That’s some heady, hazy, rockin’ stuff they produce. “Songs for the Deaf” a killer CD.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this
Billy, I share your feelings about the new injury announcing trend. So-and-so “has a knee,” et cetera. Not only is it woefully unspecific in terms of description (“Having a knee” could mean sprain, strain, tear, or reconstruction of any one or more of four ligaments, or cartilage, or microfractiure surgury, broken kneecap…), but it also sounds absurd in general. I also hate “When you have someone like a Tom Brady, or a Peyton Manning…blah, blah). There is only one of each, moron, just refer to him specifically. It’s actually even a shorter sentence.
Lew, you got a speaker upgrade on the computer yet? I just watched a live (about 1973-5) version of “Child in Time” by Deep Purple on YouToube that was flaming fantastic. It’s about 9 1/2 minutes long. I’ll send it to you if it’d be worth it.
By MS
November 29, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this
DOB, I’m with you on Metallica. Their new stuff isn’t quite as good, but they still know how to bring it. Any doubters need to go see them in concert and they’ll see for themselves that they’re a long way from over the hill.
San Quentin was the prison from the video, btw.
By eware
November 29, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this
DOB, just got the DBT’s album “A Blessing and a Curse”. It’s outstanding.
What’s your take on Evan Dando? Have you heard his solo stuff?
By Lew
November 29, 2006 08:45 PM | Link to this
Grinch-No sound upgrade on the computer, just on the major sound system. Got a new 100W Yamaha with about .01 Harmonic Distortion.Now I have to listen to the whole CD collection again. The stereo will be old by the time I finish. Stinky-I’m not old, just experienced. I can hear just fine without you yelling-but thanks for the good wishes, anyway, even if you still have a major tendency to be a Whiny Little Jerk.
By Greg in TN
November 29, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this
I hear you DOB, I’ll be curious to see where AJ will go and how he and Bora$ will spin it. I’ve resigned myself to him being gone after next year and I’m okay with that.
Tomahawkin, I have no idea how in the world Stephen A Smith is gainfully employed doing what he does, then again, I think ESPN went off the deep end a long time ago.
Boinker, not sure what exactly you’re aiming for by labeling Glavine as a has been. 15-6 with a 3.82 ERA in 2006. Not exactly the same numbers he put up in ‘91 or ‘98 for the Cy, but it isn’t exactly Jorge Sosa numbers either.
If we get Glavine and don’t break the bank in the process, it works to our advantage. If we don’t and he winds up in NYC next year, I won’t loose that much sleep over it either, but if the chance is there that we can add him, we have to do it.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this
I’ve come to the conclusion that most of the people who post at the ATL offical site are kids. Man have any of you’ve seen some of that stuff?
By Carolina Lady
November 29, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this
Speaking of lawyers and negotiators - I got this in email earlier:
A New Orleans lawyer sought an FHA loan for a client who lost his house in Hurricane Katrina and wanted to rebuild.. He was told the loan would be granted if he could prove satisfactory title to the parcel of property being offered as collateral. The title to the property dated back to 1803, which took the Lawyer three months to track down. After sending the information to the FHA, he received the following reply:
(Actual letter): “Upon review of your letter adjoining your client’s loan application, we note that the request is supported by an Abstract of Title. While we compliment the able manner in which you have prepared and presented the application, we must point out that you have only cleared title to the proposed collateral property back to 1803. Before final approval can be accorded, it will be necessary to clear the title back to its origin.”
Annoyed, the lawyer responded as follows:
(Actual Letter): “Your letter regarding title in Case No. 189156 has been received. I note that you wish to have title extended further than the 194 years covered by the present application. I was unaware that any educated person in this country, particularly those working in the property area, would not know that Louisiana was purchased, by the U.S., from France in 1803, the year of origin identified in our application. For the edification of uninformed FHA bureaucrats, the title to the land prior to U.S. ownership was obtained from France, which had acquired it by Right of Conquest from Spain. The land came into the possession of Spain by Right of Discovery made in the year 1492 by a sea captain named Christopher Columbus, who had been granted the privilege of seeking a new route to India by the Spanish monarch, Isabella.
The good queen, Isabella, being a pious woman and almost as careful about titles as the FHA, took the precaution of securing the blessing of the Pope before she sold her jewels to finance Columbus ’ expedition. Now the Pope, as I sure you may know, is the emissary of Jesus Christ, the Son God, and God, it is commonly accepted, created this world. Therefore, I believe it is safe to presume that God also made that part of the world called Louisiana. God, therefore, would be the owner of origin and His origins date back to before the beginning of time, the world as we know it AND the FHA. I hope you find God’s original claim to be satisfactory. Now, may we have our damn loan?” He got the loan.
By berigan
November 29, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this
DOB, you are right about the Docu, Some Kind of Monster! Makes you wonder how they ever got this or any other record done. Didn’t get to see the behind the scenes stuff, since I saw the film on VH1.
By Paul
November 29, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this
I hate when people refer to the “black album” as their “sell out” album. Its a great album from top to bottom. Though I am partial to Ride the Lightning and Kill em All. What would have happened if Dave Mustaine never left. Shaun-good points about Ripken. I had no idea that his post season numbers were that good. I still think Jeter will be remembered as the better shortstop when he hangs it up. He with Rivera are the MVPS of that team.
By Stinky
November 29, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this
From the AP.
Nick Lachey was introduced on Wednesday as a part-owner of the Tacoma Rainiers, the Triple-A affiliate of the Seattle Mariners. “Sports for me, other than what I do for a living, is truly my passion, and baseball has always been something that is a part of my life,” said Lachey, who grew up a Cincinnati Reds fan. “Being able to do what I do for my career, thankfully I’ve been blessed enough to be able to do well in that, to have other opportunities and this is one of them.”
By Doug
November 29, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this
We need to bring back Tommy. He will provide at least 15 wins and give some veteran leadership in the clubhouse and with the other pitchers. He has given Atlanta some great seasons and he should finish his career here. We need solid pitching and a leadoff hitter this season. Marcus Giles is a good player, but does not suit our needs this season.
By The Grinch
November 29, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this
Paul, it looks like you’re saying Mustaine was the guitarist for Kill ‘em All and Ride the Lightning. He left in ‘83 before Metallica ever hit the studio. Kirk Hammit came over from Exodus that same year for Kill ‘em All. If I misunderstood you, my bad. Also, I said earlier the Black alblum was a good alblum; I just preferred their earlier stuff. Also, prior to Cliff Burton dying in ‘87, they would do things like buy $30 tickets from ticketmaster and re-sell them for 15-20 so kids could afford to come to their show. Since then, they’ve been doing their best KISS imitation money/marketing wise. Like Chipper Jones selling $70 baseballs to kids on his website. I know, most bands do the same thing, it just surprises me that the same guys could go from being so cool to such dicks so quickly.
By Matthew
November 29, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady:
The history teacher in me loved that post. For that matter, the whole of me loved that post. And he got the loan? Priceless…
DOB, you never answered me about Jolson. Is he too far back for you? If you ever need to relax, get some Jolson. If you need to romance that significant other, try, “I Only Have Eyes for You.” Jolson’s good.
JJS, since I have only been here a year or so, can you explain why toes are not to be trifled with? And also, I thought you might be interested, in the first church I pastored a man had suffered a logging accident and lost his thumb. They removedhis big toe and affixed it to where his thumb had been. Toes apparently are more expendable than thumbs, according to the doctor, but I would never support such a travesty of misinformation. The baby has a stomach ache-I may be back several times tonight..
By mariner
November 29, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this
“As time has gone on, I think it’s actually been the potential pull and the desire to go back to New York and be a Met that has delayed this process and further complicated his decision-making,” Clifton said.*
that, and no contract offer from Atlanta.
By lanceinfl
November 29, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this
The whole napster thing ruined it for me with metalica….the phrase douche bags comes to mind.
JS is going to sit on his hands till someone offers him something real sweet. Its worked in the past. Problem is, I dont think its happening this year, the market is REALLY wierd, and most GM’s have learned that you usually get the short end of the stick when you deal with JS.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady
that was funny
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this
Eware, DBT’s “Blessing and a Curse” gets better and better with each listen, too. Lyrics are dark and deep, strong from start to finish. Funny you brought it up, because I just listened to it while running on the treadmill a half-hour ago.
MS, I think it’s a typical reaction to bands who get big, change course a bit, maybe struggle for an album or two, and their early followers bail. Sort of like, “I knew ‘em when they were good _ you kids can have ‘em now because they’re a shell of what they were.”
It was same way with Husker Du, a fierce rock band that peaked while I was in college. They had a slightly commercial sounding release, “Flip Your Wig” I think was the one, and a bunch of their hardcore fans called it a sellout. Wasn’t at all, though, just wasn’t quite as hard and raw. But they made several more great albums, as hard as ever if slightly more polished because they had more money and better studio engineers, etc.
REM was same way, to a degree. While granted they weren’t as great as they were in early ’80s, they still made some very strong albums in the ’90s that a lot of their early core audience dismissed without even giving them a chance.
How cool is that San Quentin stuff, by the way? Powerful performance, and the extra disc on the DVD “Some Kind of Monster” has so much of that stuff. I like the extra DVD disc that came with the St, Anger CD, too, with all the rehearsal footage. Good idea.
By crimedogrules
November 29, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this
I agree with everybody all at the same time…
I don’t think we should/could have signed anybody that has been signed so far not for the contracts that have been given.
Bring back Glavine.
DOB, any way to get Roberts from the O’s. I know they want Hudson…?
Also, when do Frenchy and McCann start coming up for arbitration?
By Paul
November 29, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this
Grinch,
If you look at some of the songs on Kill em All, Mustaine is credited for a few songs off the album. It just would have been interesting if Dave wasn’t kicked out of the band (some early Megadeth is quite good). I agree with you on their “new” stuff. I like the new stuff, but I am partial to their older material.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
November 29, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this
What’s up, everyone? Its been a while since I have been here. I have been monitoring the offseason activity and this offseason is beginning to look a lot like last offseason. Very little being done to address the needs of the team. I hope I’m wrong.
Allow me to address a few issues. First, Andruw. Not trading him at the deadlne is looking more and more like the mistake I feared it would be. I was heavily scoffed at when I suggested that the Braves should actively seek to Andruw because they were simply not going to be able to resign him. I was told I was an idiot, a traitor, and stupid for suggesting such things. Well, it looks like I was right. I said that Andruw would command at least $17 mil and it was laughed at. It isn’t so funny now, huh? If Soriano can get an 8 year $136 mil deal, what makes anyone think Andruw won’t get at least the same. Andruw can be ever the homerun hitter Soriano is and he has nine gold gloves to bring along with him. And, oh yeah, he is only 30!!!!!!!!!!! The problem with trading him now is that Andruw can basically block any trade and has indicated that he will. That is something he couldn’t have done at the trade deadline in July. I love Andruw to death but that anger he displayed when he found out he was placed on waivers seems like a crock now. Andruw says he has loyalty to the Braves but its obvious he doesn’t. With the current payroll structure the Braves can’t give him $17 or $18 mil and field a competitive team. Let’s just say the Braves took the deal the Red Sox offered. They would now be sitting with two very good and young pitching prospects and a potential leadoff hitter. Yes, I know Crisp and surgery as soon as the seasoon is over but he is expected to be ready to go in spring training and showed in September why he can be a very good commdoity. That trade would leave the Braves with an extra $8 mil to sign a free agent or trade for a quality OF. Heck, the Braves could’ve even traded Crisp and had $13.5 mil more or less freed to spend on free agents. But, alas, they don’t. They are stuck with Andruw and the knowledge that he has no intentions of being a Brave in 2008. But, we get a draft pick! Wooooooo!
As for Glavine, I sincerely hope he comes back. But, I have serious doubts that will happen. The Braves at most could offer him $8 mil and that would only be after a trade of Hudson or Giles. And one of the main reasons to trade Giles was to get a couple of good relievers or at least free up the money to do so. If they trade Giles just to free up money to get Glavine, it kind of ruins the whole idea of getting relivers. While the Braves could definitely use a starter, that bullpen must be fixed and have insurance in case of any collapses. I will say this for Tommy though. If he really has the loyalty he is claiming to have to the Braves, it won’t mattter how much the Mets offer. He will come back to Atlanta for whatever JS can afford to give him. We’ll see, I suppose.
I think the Braves need a leadoff hitter despite what some say. I still believe a trade proposal with the Angles should be sought. I think they should attempt to shop Andruw to them. I realize the Angles signed Matthews Jr. but c’mon. Is Matthews Jr. anywhere near the CF Andruw is. Besides, the Angles still need a power hitter. I think Figgins, Kendrick, and Santana should be sought and would be welcomed additions to the roster.
One last thing. As much as I would love to see Manny here, it simply can’t happen. How would the Braves be able to pay Manny $19 mil when they can’t give Andruw more than $14 or $15 mil. The Red Sox would basically have to pay $5.5 to $6 mil of the salary and even then Manny has indicated he wants an extension if he is to be traded. And we know the Braves can’t give him that.
I really do believe that not trading Andruw when they had the chance has and will further come back to haunt the Braves. I hate to say I told you so, but…………I knew that while Andruw was probably sincere about wanting to stay a Brave there was no way he would stay for $15 mil when there will be teams willing to give him $17, $18, or maybe even $19 mil a year. And there is no reason to believe after seeing this year’s free agent market that Andruw won’t get that in next year’s market.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this
Lance, understood. But I really don’t let Napster and that controversy stand in the way of me enjoying the music whatsoever. And you know what? They were standing up for their rights not to get ripped off. They took it too far, yes, but in principle they had a point. Again, they just took it too far.
MS, by the way, try to tell those 100,000-sized concert crowds all over the world that Metallica doesn’t still rock. Man, I couldn’t believe how big and frenzied those crowds were. And the Metallica fan club meeting they showed, all those punks and old folks and everything in between, living for the band. Passionate fans, they have. I had no idea to what degree until I saw that documentary.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this
This Carolina-Ohio State hoops game is going to be an amazing finish, by the way. What a game….
By bryan
November 29, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this
Hey David did you see the post from Bill Shanks @ www.scout.com that Glavine is close to signing a 7-8 million deal with a possible option year, with our Braves?
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this
Matthew, your 10:04 post was refreshingly original. Never let it be said this ain’t a motley (in a good way) group….
By RC
November 29, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this
In response to Robert(Justice)’s comment: While there is a decent arguement to be made that the Braves should have traded Andruw, the offer from the Red Sox was NOT for Crisp, Lester, and Hanson as you suggested. When the Sox called and asked Scherholtz what it would take to get Andruw that is what Scherholtz asked for in return. The Sox said no way, and that ended the talks. Also, in addition to Crisp’s surgury, Lester was recently diagnosed with cancer. While I truly hope he makes a full recovery, he will not be much use to the Braves or the Red Sox in the near future. Just wanted to clarify, your other points are well argued, even though I disagree.
By Wayne
November 29, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this
Hello Folks! I read a lot of posts, but never really responded. A couple of thoughts. Tommy G put himself in a poor bargaining position by his statement of only playing for Met or Braves. OOPS! JS has the flexibility of not really offering anything. In negotiations, the first to blink loses. I can see JS trading Giles or HoRam in the next few days, then “meeting” again with Clifton. At that point, the $$ might come out, but probably not before Friday (Dec 1st, no draft choices lost…)
DOB: Love your insights. Any truth to the LaRoche to Pittsburgh rumor? Personally, the Braves would never admit it (they never admit anything, I love it!!), but if we could band-aid 1B for a while, Salty could get some AAA experience at 1B, which might be a good spot for him. While I love LaRoche, I think long-term, Salty might be the better fit for the teams future.
WHADDYYA THINK?
By brian
November 29, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this
I still do not understand why people are not more pro-Glavine. People are taking him for granted. I am as big a Smoltz fan as anyone here, but for people to say that Glavine was never a leader on the Braves knows very little about their clubhouse dynamics. The post calling me an idiot was also constructive. Classy debate and blog. The Lady was not too nice. She is just classy and knows how to constructively voice a differing opinion.
Smoltz has been the leader for the past few years on the Braves and no one doubts his passion. And yes he will lead us back to the playoffs, but he needs help. Glavine would be a huge addition to our staff. Last year it was pretty much Smoltz and then pray for rain (or James at the end of the year).
I think it is a legitimate debate on whether the $8 million to sign Glavine could best serve us elsewhere, but please do not denigrate the contributions that Glavine has made to the Braves. I would like someone who wants to spend the money elsewhere to show me a #3 starter with Glavine’s stats last year that they could sign for $8 million in this market. What did Adam Eaton sign for? If, and a big IF, Glavine returns to Atlanta, he will be leaving a ton of money on the table, and this should be noted by everyone.
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 29, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this
DOB - any reaction to the associated press article on espn.com? (here it is: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2680548)
by the way, i love lanegan’s solo stuff as well. “field songs” and “scraps at midnight” are my favorites, and i think the mark lanegan band cd is pretty damn good as well.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this
Robert (JITB), just one thing: You wrote, “Let’s just say the Braves took the deal the Red Sox offered. They would now be sitting with two very good and young pitching prospects and a potential leadoff hitter.”
But the problem is, the Red Sox didn’t offer that trio of players, they refused to give that trio up when Braves asked for it. To refresh, the Red Sox called Schuerholz and asked what it would take to pry away Andruw, and JS told them those two stud young pitchers and Crisp. R. Sox immediately said thanks but no thanks, and that was it.
By krath
November 29, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this
I read this with interest a few minutes ago online. It’s a bit updated info by Greg Clifton on the Glavine thing.
“He (Glavine) can’t even evaluate that they really want him if he doesn’t have an offer,” Clifton said Wednesday. “The bottom line is, we’re waiting to see if Atlanta wants to make a proposal to us. We’ve had really nice dialogue on a few occasions and we’ve kind of left it: We’re open. We’re waiting for John to give us a call if he would like to.”
Even though I think Glavine coming back would be a good thing, I’m not going to lose any sleep if Glavine doesn’t come back.
It’s not if Glavine comes back or not as much as it is a bit of a concern that it seems JS is sometimes toooo cool for his own good. I mean the “no one called back” thing is an exact repeat of what was supposedly going on when Glavine signed with the Mets the first time! Phone tag… (depending on who’s version you believe) I know, I know, the Braves have to be able to move some parts to make the Glavine deal happen, but if they are indeed interested in TG, they need to at least let him and Clifton know they are trying to do some things to make it happen.
If I’m Glavine and I’m getting a “gee it would be nice if you come home,” line from the Braves…yet no one is even giving me ballpark figures OR even a plan for when they can give me those figures….. I gotta be thinking the Mets are looking damn good! lol
No one can dispute JS’s prowess (in the past) as a GM, but it is absolutely a different world today in MLB. Mediocre players are getting suitcases of money to sign. The Braves are stuck with a mediocre payroll limit. That combined with an inflexible attitude that “we’ve always done it this way” may not equal a successful foray into bringing/keeping players to/in Atlanta.
I dont expect JS to start kissing butts and suddenly change his stripes, but I do think he’s going to have to be more flexible and creative than he has ever been before. Players are gonna have to “feel the love” to come to Atlanta especially if they can’t “feel the money.” I’m not sure he’s gonna be able to do that.
It’s not so much a “Glavine” thing as much as assuming that his dealings with all players go this way.
Hey I could be wrong! JS did finally tell Smoltz he was picking up his option early and he did re-sign Wickman before the season ended.
By Wayne
November 29, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this
Another thought: Many of you readers have very little patience with JS and his methodology. He has done very little for the Braves, except bring 14/15 division titles, several trips to the big dance, and one big win! There are a lot of teams (and their fans) who would love to trade their success with the Braves record of the past 15 years. Have patience folks. Besides, we could be a lot worse off.
PS: Can anyone say LaRoche for Duffy and Grabow??? (think Salty at 1B in July???)
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this
Bryan, he posted that more than 24 hours ago. That’s the rumor that the agent scoffed at when I called him last night at 9 p.m. pacific time. He said there was absolutely no offer made by the Braves, not even any “formal discussions” yet of parameters of a deal.
Now, I haven’t seen the post because I’m not paying $40 or whatever it cost to read his stuff. But unless it’s a new post, different from what he wrote last night, I don’t know what to tell you other than the agent was a bit shocked to hear about it since no offer had even been made.
Again, unless he wrote something with a new twist today, it’s the same story that was posted last night when he said there was “breaking news” there.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6221674
This sounds like they are attempting to pressure JS in making an offer.
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this
Well, Wayne, I guess I fail to see why Salty at 1B would be a better fit than LaRoche for the team’s long-term future, as you suggest. Why, because Salty’s never played 1B and had a terrible season hitting in his first year above A-ball? What in the world has he done for you to have such confidence that he’d be ready to take over 1B in July. Talk about a huge leap of faith…
By journalist jimmy smith
November 29, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this
matthew, first thumbs, then toes. the human thumb is fully opposable. many bloggers here have opposable thumbs, but not all (wink, wink). following the surgery, the gentleman you describe may have had an opposable toe. did you confirm this? ie: could he grip the collection plate with this toe? was he clumsy (all thumbs - oh, the humanity!)?
loss of a big toe is serious business. the toes, especially the big toe, play an essential role in walking. having no big toe would cause great difficulty with balance.
having a big toe on your hand instead of a thumb could be a conversation starter. doesn’t seem like it would help but some girls might dig it (journalist can hear grinch’s wheels turning). all things being equal this journalist would keep this journalist’s big toe on this journalist’s foot. after all, toes are not to be trifled with.
hope this has been helpful.
give the baby a little butter pecan ice cream straight from the tub. works wonders.
By Wayne
November 29, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this
Message to JS: Please do not change your ways. You are the best exec in baseball! While it kills me waiting on Braves news, your method are appreciated. Don’t cave in to the stupidity of the big $$$ clubs. Hold the line. Personally, I think the Braves salary restrictions have actually helped to make us more viable from year to year. It forces the Braves to make ALL choices “smart” choices.
Also, you can be that JS knows and has had numerous discussions about what getting Glavine would do “for” the Braves and “to” the Mets.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this
krath,
While I understand you points Krath you have to look at the other side as well specifically with this Glavine info that just popped up. His agent is pressuring/leveraging JS and the Braves trough the media. JS wont defend himslef not yet anyways. I think DOB has the right idea. The braves cant make an offer unless they clear payroll becuase if Glavine accpets then they are at a disadvatage in trade talks becuase then they have to get rid of Giles. Much like, if you remeber, when they had to get rid of K. Millwood when Maddax accpeted arbatration a few years back.
By mariner
November 29, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this
DOB, what about Daryle Ward? Is he looking to ber a full timer elsewhere? Or get into a platoon situation instead of a back-up? I thought this deal would be done by now, so I’m beginning to wonder if it will happen at all. Not a big priority I guess, but still a key contributor and one of the few options that are affordable to improve the team.
By TennesseePaul
November 29, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this
Ramirez would post pinball-like numbers at the hitter-friendly Ballpark in Arlington,
From an SI article. Probably the funniest way I’ve heard that put.
DOB: Is there any whispers about the Braves involved in this Manny trade? I don’t mean they get him, but as a third party taking advantage of these two teams situation. Probably not, but thought I’d ask. Also, Ervin Santana, heard anything about him possibly going to Chicago… I think White Sox? Thanks for the latest blog by the way. I appreciate the updates as always. Now I need to catch up with this thing and see what’s goin’ on.
By crimedogrules
November 29, 2006 11:13 PM | Link to this
Giles for Linebrink
Hudson for B. Roberts
Glavine for 300
Mets in third place… priceless
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 11:16 PM | Link to this
Billy, your 11:01 p.m. post is correct, I’d say.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
November 29, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this
I stand corrected regarding the Boston deal. You guys are right about JS being told that Lester was not available. But, the Red Sox do have other pitching prospects we could have went after. My point is that no trading Andruw and this polyanna belief that he was going to take this massive “hometown” discount has come back to haunt the Braves. I love Andruw to death but the fact that he is seeking the largest contract possible is of no surprise to me. I saw it coming. Andruw isn’t stupid. He knows he can get hella paid and the Braves aren’t the ones to do it. I still say that JS has to seek some sort of deal to trade Andruw. They have to look beyond 2007.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 29, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this
robertjitb, welcome back. missed you. toe health good? ready to blog now?
By Wayne
November 29, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this
Dave: Actually, Salty comes over (to Utah) and shovels my driveway when it snows, and he simonized my car last month…….
To be honest, it is a hunch, that if Salty (we gotta get a better nickname for that kid) is supposed to have the type of potential that he does, you wouldn’t be far off base to bet on his future. He finished OK in AA. Where else are you gonna put him?? Maybe LF? So, while I have no knowledge that would lead me to believe Salt would be able to convert, I think it might be a decent gamble to take, if you get some value for LaRoche in return. I like Duffy’s upside with the looming loss of AJ.
What do you the the Bravos have in mind for Kelly Johnson next year? I really liked him in ‘05. He was a SS in the minors for a while.
Someday lets talk about all the prospects the Braves have in the lower minors… (Harrison, Jones-Brandon, Holt, Pope, Reyes, Jones-Beau)
Give Salty a call, I bet he would clean your windows for you!
By Drummerdad
November 29, 2006 11:20 PM | Link to this
Howdy! Glavine this, Andruw that. If john Schuerholz is able to make 1 or 2 good moves this could be a really good year for us. Andruw will have a career season. Whatever he lacks in motivation that shark of an agent of his will make sure he finds. BIG payday coming for him and we should just enjoy the ride as he gets there. Perhaps it scores us another foray into the playoffs and a more serious outcome.
DOB, I can appreciate your fascination with and respect for Boras. Whether we like him or not, he’s very good. Parlayed a soso minor league adventure into an industry changing business.
Having Glavine back might be a good mental fix for Tim Hudson. One of the things I respect about Tom is that he’s mentally so tough.
By Wayne
November 29, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this
Crimedog: Love the post, man!
By JJ
November 29, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this
Bryan and all. The Shanks story has apparently been inaccurately repeated by people on other sites. If you read the free message board on the site he says his story has not been repeated accurately by non-paying customers so it is no wonder that the agent denied it. I am not a subscriber over there, but in this age of internet rumors I dont find it hard to believe that someone said they read the story and started the rumor about the imminent deal and it went from there. Those who do subscribe are forbidden from repeating the premium info to protect the investment of all the premium subscribers so none of them could comment to refute the rumors. But Shanks says he didn’t report the deal many have attributed to the pay-only article he wrote. His stuff is usually very good so I’ll take his word over anonymous internet posters who he says have inaccurately repeated his story.
By heres a nice dylan stream for anyone that wants to listen
November 29, 2006 11:24 PM | Link to this
NICE SOUND
By David O'Brien
November 29, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this
Wayne, I agree his future with Braves seems more likely at first base _ but that’s only because the current catcher is so good and so young.
LaRoche is also young, cheap and good. So my only point with you was, there’s nothing except hunch to suggest Salty would be ready _ or needed _ in July to replace a guy very capable of going .280-30-100.
And yes, you’re right _ a lot more good prospects in the system than most are aware of. You named a lot of them.
By Jared
November 29, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this
ESPN says Glavine’s return to Mets “likely” and uses some Clifton quotes about how classy the Mets are as their basis.
If that true, or is it the usual ESPN NY-bias and typical agent posturing?
By journalist jimmy smith
November 29, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this
those who follow braves baseball know that esteemed manager bobby cox digs with his thumb. imagine if you will a big toe where that thumb used to be … no one would remain in the dugout during such an ordeal.
iamgine now the circle change thrown by a 41-year old lefthander with a toe for a thumb. worse, image suffering from cold toe-thumb (thumb-toe?).
this is all pretty gross. matthew, has brought up a subject that should be taboo on this blog.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
Thats a big gamble guy. Your just gonna toss Laroach and his 30 HR/Stellar Defense away based on the potential of a prospect that hit .220 in AA last year.
IMO, lets wait another year for Salty to develop (I really dont think that people use that for a nick name but rather an easy way to spell his name)and if he does and Laroach has another outstanding year we have a problem….a problem any team wants. A wealth of talent. To me it that seemss a little bit less risky. Why rush the prospect? Laroach I dont think is a FA for awhile.
By futurebravesgm2413
November 29, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this
What does everyone think of Kelly Johnson possibily hitting leadoff at eithe 2nd or LF? We all know he has good on base skills. Does anyone else think he can be similar to Brad Wilkerson without the Ks?
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this
JJ,
Dont worry not too many people believed that story even though I tried to get them to comment as if it was true to prove a point.
Since you’ve taken upon yourslef to defend Bill Shanks let me ask you a question. Why does he charge for information that you probably could get here or other sites for free? Much less worry about it’s authenticity.
By krath
November 29, 2006 11:47 PM | Link to this
Wayne and Billy…… I acknowledge that JS is a hall of fame GM. It’s also comforting to know that he’s the type of GM who wouldn’t get involved in this free agent madness that’s going on even if he had the payroll to do it. But at the same time, he is human and not perfect…. just like all of us. He miscalculated last year on the need to spend a couple of extra bucks to get a closer and the Braves paid for it. He chose to hold some payroll for the trade deadline to strenghten the team. The only problem was the Braves were in a big hole at the deadline and couldn’t recover. (BTW… I advocated trading Andruw before he was 10-5 last season)
JS has been a huge part of the Braves success over their run, but he doesn’t deserve 100% of the credit. It has been his work, Bobby Coxs’ work, the scouting, the farm system etc.
MLB is a fluid entity. It changes year to year. The dynamics of the game are different today than they were even 5 years ago. If Knute Rockne was coaching today, he could not run the game the way he did when he was coaching. Times change, the game changes, the faces change. Those who are flexible and change with it survive and excel. Those who don’t are remembered for their feats in “their day.”
By Matthew
November 29, 2006 11:48 PM | Link to this
JJS:
I’ll re-read your replies in the morning when my ears stop ringing from the baby crying. He’s better now, so I’m off to hang out with the sandman for a few. “See” you all tomorrow.
By Carolina Lady
November 29, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this
Totally off subject and irrelevant - but having spent a great deal of time recently in the medical establishment, I found a lot of humor here:
Bubba had Shingles
Those of us who spend much time in a doctor’s office should appreciate this! Doesn’t it seem that more and more that physicians are running their practices like an assembly line? Here’s what happened to Bubba:
Bubba walked into a doctor’s office and the receptionist asked him what he had. Bubba said, Shingles. So she wrote down his name, address, medical insurance number and told him to have a seat.
Fifteen minutes later a nurse’s aide came out and asked Bubba what he had.
Bubba said, Shingles. So she wrote down his height, weight, a complete medical history and told Bubba to wait in the examining room.
A half hour later a nurse came in and asked Bubba what he had. Bubba said, Shingles. So the nurse gave Bubba a blood test, a blood pressure test, an electrocardiogram, and told Bubba to take off all his clothes and wait for the doctor.
An hour later the doctor came in and asked Bubba what he had. Bubba said, shingles. The doctor asked, Where?
Bubba said, “Outside on the truck. Where do you want them??”
By Wayne
November 29, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this
Billy: I tend to agree with you on your points. My major point is that 1B is a relatively easier position to fill (I was a fledgling first sacker in my youth!), in case Salt doesn’t put it together this year or next. The take for LaRoche could be very helpful (Duffy and Grabow or Gonzalez). Could give us a leadoff hitter and a lefty for the pen. We have a lot of prospects for 1B if Duffy plays LF for 1 year. We would need LaRoche’s bat (tongue partially in cheek) since AJ is going to have a MONSTER free agent year next year.
DAVE: If Kelly Johnson picks up from 2005 and could fit in at 1B or 2B??? Many former SS’s have the ability to pick up other positions with ease.
LF Duffy SS Renteria 3B Jones (Aybar in reserve) CF Jones (monster year) C McCann (gotta love him) RF Francoeur 1B Johnson/Ward/Thorman/Jurries 2B Aybar/Prado/Johnson/Escobar
Yeah, yeah, I know, I am a bit of a dreamer. But I like it with Salty learning a new position at Richmond and our starting 5 and a bullpen reinforced by Linebrink and Grabow or Gonzalez, and with the return of Boyer. I also liked Devine in Aug/Sept, and think we would be prudent to offer Reitsma and Thomson incentive laden contracts.
OK, OK, yes it is true that I want JS’s job when he retires….
By Drummerdad
November 30, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this
Journalist jimmy, Will you still be speaking and writing of toes when the toe king is gone? And, just for the record, I forgive you for the venture into the discussion of exchanging thumbs and toes, digging with toes, and the rest. You were right, it was pretty gross and close to adult rated material. Captain Hook would have thought it “poor form”. (He had lost his thumb to an alligator. But I don’t think it was from doing crack at 4 A.M. and going skinny dippin’ in the nearest gator pond.) There’s some humanity for you.
By Drummerdad
November 30, 2006 12:16 AM | Link to this
Wayne, I know that Dennis Hopper is doing those ads about dreaming, but you have it in full gear there my friend. Would you really want to do the Reitsma thing again?
By ButchWax
November 30, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this
jimmy smith - try pulling your thumb out of your az$ and hitch a ride on out of here.
By JJ
November 30, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this
Billy,
The info you pay for on that site is not just info you can get elsewhere later. A subscription also includes access to interviews, podcasts, online chatrooms with Braves players, coaches, prospects, and fans and stuff like that. For avid Braves fans it’s worth the few bucks a month. Occasionally when news breaks, he’ll have it there and he’s usually got it quicker than other news sources will print it. If it’s news of an actual signing or trade he’s always been right and it’s often the first place you’ll see it in print. It’s the stories about progress being made or what the Braves are talking about or might do that have caused controversy. I’m not trying to defend Shanks, but since I have enjoyed information on that site for a while now I just wanted to give my views on it to try to give everyone an opportunity to see a bigger picture than those that imply he’s no more informed than any other Braves blogger.
By Wayne
November 30, 2006 12:42 AM | Link to this
Drummerdad: When he was healthy, Reitsma performed extremely well as a set up man, and in 2005 he did great as a closer. His biggest problem was hiding his ailments from Bobby and his coaching staff. If healthy, Reitsma might prove to be EXACTLY what the bullpen needs.
Also, Thomson, when healthy was a serviceable 4th/5th starter, and might also prove to be a good bullpen man and rotation insurance.
Both maybe could be had with the right type of contracts.
I know Reitsma burned a lot of bridges, but he really wasn’t himself most of last with his arm problems. Maybe he never gets it back, but I would hate to see him have a comeback year with someone else.
WHADDYYAA think?
By The Grinch
November 30, 2006 12:49 AM | Link to this
Paul, Dave M. wrote about half that first alblum. For a while, he played “Jump in the Fire” and “Whiplash” live, ‘cause they were his songs. Metallica eventaually got more money (thus better lawyers) and now he can’t. And as I said, Megadeth’s first four were pretty damn good (especially “Peace sells, but who’s buying”). And the Napster thing…this is what I mean, DOB. From ‘82 to ‘87 Metallica would’ve had a napster symbol on Lars’ drum kit just to get the music to the masses…that’s what makes me sick about the transfer they went through. I didn’t know who they were. Throw a major change on me like that at the same time you quit playing guitar solos and you have a recipe for a band the Grinch will quit listening to. I’ll check out that new DVD on your authority, though; I saw it at Circuit City today.
Matthew, you teach history? Good deal; that’s my area of expertise as well (I cannot suffer students).
By The Grinch
November 30, 2006 12:56 AM | Link to this
Drummerdad, you underestimate early-morning crack and a good, temperature controlled pool. Yeah, baby.
Wayne, while I agree Thompson might be a bargain for a good middle relief man, if you’re worried about Reitsma having a “comeback year” with someone else you don’t have nearly enough to worry about. That’s like worrying if Heather Locklear or Pam Anderson would find you “too big” or “too sleazy.”
By Drummerdad
November 30, 2006 01:31 AM | Link to this
Wayne, Thomson is not a problem for me. Reitsma looks pretty doubtful. When Kyle Davies tore the groin, it clearly annoyed Bobby that Kyle didn’t have the sense to say something when it was bothering him. Reitsma has been around a while. He knows that part of his job is to pay attention to his body and say something if things aren’t right. It struck that elements of trust and communication were violated. The Braves are so professional that he had to have known he should have been saying something. I remember watching them get on their bus in San Diego back about 1994. Just seeing how they conducted themselves when they travelled was impressive. What the heck, if the trades Schuerholz wants don’t develop, we may be seeing Chris back no matter what.
By Drummerdad
November 30, 2006 01:37 AM | Link to this
Grinch, Being a musician, I’ve seen warm pools, but you better watch who you get in there with. By the way, how did it go with the orange aprons and the pavers in your back yard?
By Bravo Nam
November 30, 2006 05:53 AM | Link to this
Robert (JITB)
Welcome back- great to have you here.
Billy (TBNFB)
I agree with you…many of the blogs on the Official AJC site are terrible…most of the journos seem to have only a superficial understanding of the teams they write about…and most of the bloggers comments are asinine.
Stinky
You really are a low life. Lew’s just come out of hospital and you sink the boot in to him, rain crap on JJS, imitate other bloggers, impersonate other bloggers. As DOB says, you have REAL problems with your sexuality that bring out all your homophobic comments. Admit it, you’re a latent homosexual. I got no problems with that…come out of the closet…then move on…coz you don’t add anything constructive to this blog.
TJ
Although it was under my name, the 1.40pm post yesterday disparaging you was not me. It was some cretin posting under my name.
DOB
I agree with a comment you made yesterday about the delay in the Braves offer to Glavine…that they’re trying to push through a trade before they make an offer. It’s the only thing that can explain why the Braves haven’t yet made him an offer- JS might be a hard nosed operator, but most of the time he acts with class and rarely disrespects others- I can’t imagine, given the stakes, that he’d be delaying an offer to Glavine without a good reason. I also think any posturing by Clifton is a red herring- I’ve got no doubt he and Glavine have an idea what is happening- it’s all to buy time and keep things sweet with both the Mets and Braves- the next 24 hours is going to be exciting…good chance we might hear of a trade…and shortly after, know who will sign Glavine.
By Bravo Nam
November 30, 2006 05:57 AM | Link to this
Robert
Where art thou?
Missed your stubborness and sense of humour!
By Bruce Brown
November 30, 2006 06:13 AM | Link to this
I say keep that Greedy Glavine out of here as well! If he loved Atlanta so much he wouldn’t of left & did you see him thinking about the FANS when he led the strike when we all went without baseball. Throw him in Lake Lanier, no don’t screwup our fishing throw him in the Atlantic up there in New York.
By Bravo Nam
November 30, 2006 06:19 AM | Link to this
From the Associated Press
“Clifton said Glavine originally thought his decision would be based on whether he wanted to return to the Atlanta area, where his family lives.
“As time has gone on, I think it’s actually been the potential pull and the desire to go back to New York and be a Met that has delayed this process and further complicated his decision-making,” Clifton said.”
Yowzer- looks like we’ve been under some misguided assumptions.
As a long-time Braves fan, the second paragraph does not sit well with me.
By TJ
November 30, 2006 06:22 AM | Link to this
Bravo Nam, I knew that 1:40 post wasn’t you… not your style.
I think you’re right on in your analysis of Glavine, Clifton, JS etc. Glavine seems like a tough and prideful guy. If he sensed he was being jerked around by JS he probably would have taken the Mets money by now.
By John K
November 30, 2006 06:33 AM | Link to this
It doesn’t appear as though the Braves will pick up Glavine. I would like to see it provided that there is still enough payroll to fill other needs. If not, then it doesn’t make any difference. As for Andruw Jones, he’s gone. Not enough payroll to finance that based on what lesser players are commanding this off-season. I think Atlanta will do better to sink that kind of money into younger players. How many times do we see teams sign established stars for billions and finish fourth and those that go with younger talent thrive?
By ncscoots
November 30, 2006 06:44 AM | Link to this
I know the thought of Reitsma brings on the howl reflex here on the blog, but…if the guy’s psyche isn’t irreparably damaged by last year (and I don’t know the guy, so I don’t know the extent of his mental toughness), he still has three plus pitches. Seeing the contracts passed out to pitchers with far inferior tools makes me think he’s worth a small contract with lots of incentives, just on the off chance. Would he take such a contract? No idea.
Fact is, SOME of the players in the group of Boyer, Yates, Paronto, Cormier, Villareal, Devine, Stockman, Startup, and whoever, HAVE to make the club and contribute, anyway. Unless you think JS is gonna go out and pick up 5 new RP somewhere (I count Wick and McBride as givens). So, seeing Reitsma at spring training wouldn’t shock me. It wouldn’t make me shout hosannas, either, but RP are what they are. Unless Gonzalez or Fuentes suddenly show up on the doorstep, no single RP is gonna make me think the Braves just won the pennant.
By Stinky
November 30, 2006 06:46 AM | Link to this
Robert
Where art thou?
Nuff said, Bravo Nam.
By MrMet
November 30, 2006 06:59 AM | Link to this
Tom, CLASS, If you allow John Schuerholz to screw the Mets this way “shame on you”. I can’t believe you of all people would allow something like this to go on. To want the best for yourself and your family is something everyone in NYC understands, but to allow J.S. to do that to the Mets and the Wilpons is your fault.
By Mitch
November 30, 2006 07:01 AM | Link to this
Thank you for the latest info, Mr O Brien. It seems to me that from all that is going on, Tom really wants to return to the Braves. Why else would he be dragging his feet, and not just tell the Mets he wants to pitch for them? It would seem to me that he would have just come to a one year, 10-11 mil deal with the Mets already, and called it a day. Conversely, I think the Braves seriously want him back as well. The problem I see here, is money. If Glavine must give the Mets an answer by the meetings, and John S cant pull off a trade, or make Tom a competetive offer, he may be forced to go back to the Mets, due to the fact that the Braves couldnt make him a decent offer. It is such an ambivalent situation. From everything that’s happened, in his heart, Tom wants the Braves, I am pretty convinced of that, and, if he does go back to the Mets, it would seem to me that such would be only due to circumstance.
By Howie from Poughkeepsie
November 30, 2006 07:51 AM | Link to this
Guys, you are putting too much into what you read and what Glavine’s agent says (you also believe everything George W says?). Can’t the Braves talk to Glavine directly if that’s what Tom wants? What ‘might’ be true is that Glavine and the Braves have a deal agreed to and are only waiting until past the Dec 1 deadline so that the Braves don’t have to surrender picks. You think JS would ever allude to that?
Also - please remember that any deal for Giles has ‘two’ parts - the trade and a subsequent deal with Giles from his new employers for a long term contract. Unless, of course, the new team wants to take a chance with Giles getting a ridiculous contract in arbitration - and for only one year. Be patient - JS knows what he’s doing and understands the dynamics of trades in the 21st century. Marcus WILL be gone, and the Braves WILL get something usable in return - either for 2007 or for use in a subsequent trade for relievers or a center fielder of the future.
Also, when and if Druw gets traded, what’s so terrible about Francoeur in center? We’d have to find a new right fielder, but Center would be addressed for years…
I love our catching tandem for next year - Brian backed up by Brayan - JS, don’t fix what ain’t broke….
and…finally…..thanks for no one taking the opportunity to bash or recommend trading Chipper in this blog. Guys - it’s getting ‘old’….
By Paul
November 30, 2006 08:00 AM | Link to this
Matthew,
Nice to have a fellow teacher on the blog. Although I don’t teach history, (high school math) always had a passion for it. Have noticed if you log on the ESPN and look at the MLB Rumor Central, it has Manny being traded to a new team every day. Why would the sox trade him? Even though he is a pain, he kills Yankee pitching and is the most prolific RBI man in the majors. If he gets traded, Ortiz will be walked over 200 times next season.
By KC
November 30, 2006 08:26 AM | Link to this
If the Braves do sincerely want Glavine back, it’s very frustrating that they haven’t made an offer yet.
The more I think about it, I’m not sure I can accept DOB’s explanation that the Braves are trying to pull off a trade to free up room for Glavine. I mean, come on… it’s not like they won’t be able to find a team that wants Giles. They’ll be able to work something out, somewhere.
So… maybe the Braves aren’t overly interested in Glavine?
By NY Post Article
November 30, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this
The Mets have been waiting on Tom Glavine. Turns out, Glavine is waiting on the Braves. Glavine, who is trying to decide whether he wants to pitch for the Mets or return to the team he began his career with, has yet to receive an offer from Atlanta, complicating a situation that has a very patient Omar Minaya in limbo with the winter meetings just days away.
“He can’t even evaluate that they (Atlanta) really want him if he doesn’t have an offer,” Glavine’s agent, Gregg Clifton, told the Associated Press yesterday. “The bottom line is we’re waiting to see if Atlanta wants to make a proposal to us. We’ve had really nice dialogue on a few occasions and we’ve kind of left it: ‘We’re open. We’re waiting for (GM) John Schuerholz to give us a call if he would like to.’”
Clifton, who said he expects a resolution before the winter meetings start Monday in Orlando, suggested the attractiveness of staying with the Mets may have trumped Glavine’s desire to remain with his family in the Atlanta suburbs.
“As time has gone on, I think it’s actually been the potential pull and the desire to go back to New York and be a Met that has delayed this process and further complicated his decision-making,” the agent said.
As for the Mets’ patience in waiting for Glavine, Clifton added: “They’re showing an incredible amount of class, because at the end of the day they have allowed him to do everything he asked to, which was to go home, to get back into the normal family mode and give him an opportunity to really think this thing through. I think it’s working to their advantage, to be honest with you.”
Said Minaya, the Mets GM: “We have spoken several times with his agent and are waiting for a decision.”
There has been speculation that the Braves have stalled while they try to clear salary, potentially by trading Tim Hudson, who is owed $26million over 2008 and ‘09. Glavine’s preference for a no-trade clause, which the Braves do not include in contracts, is another potential complication. Then there’s the frosty relationship Schuerholz created with his book earlier this year. The GM revealed that Glavine met with him at the pitcher’s Alpharetta, Ga., home after having second thoughts on the eve of his introduction with the Mets. The southpaw seethed that Schuerholz revealed a private meeting occurred.
“With all of these second thoughts swirling around in his brain, Tommy called Bobby Cox at Bobby’s farm at Adairsville, Ga., that Saturday and, as Bobby related to us, said, ‘I made a mistake. I don’t want to do this,’” Schuerholz wrote in “Built to Win.”
As free-agent starting pitchers, including Adam Eaton and Randy Wolf, land lucrative contracts elsewhere, the Mets even more urgently could use Glavine’s services in 2007.
Meanwhile, Pedro Martinez reiterated that he expects to be out until the second half of next season, though he noted progress in his recovery from rotator cuff surgery. “The rehabilitation process is going better than expected,” Martinez said.
By rammerjammer
November 30, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this
All this gushing over the Mets “class” in the Glavine situation is a little over the top. They desparately need Glavine, much more so than do the Braves.
With a rotation in shambles, have every motivation to be nice. The Braves, on the other hand, are in a take-it-or-leave-it situation. The rotation is good with or without Tommy.
My take is that JS ain’t getting emotionally involved in this. Where Tommy wins his 300th is of no concern. His job is to work within the budget and make smart decisions that improve the team now and in the future.
His job is not to enable reunions.
By NY Post Article
November 30, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this
The Mets have been waiting on Tom Glavine. Turns out, Glavine is waiting on the Braves. Glavine, who is trying to decide whether he wants to pitch for the Mets or return to the team he began his career with, has yet to receive an offer from Atlanta, complicating a situation that has a very patient Omar Minaya in limbo with the winter meetings just days away.
“He can’t even evaluate that they (Atlanta) really want him if he doesn’t have an offer,” Glavine’s agent, Gregg Clifton, told the Associated Press yesterday. “The bottom line is we’re waiting to see if Atlanta wants to make a proposal to us. We’ve had really nice dialogue on a few occasions and we’ve kind of left it: ‘We’re open. We’re waiting for (GM) John Schuerholz to give us a call if he would like to.’”
Clifton, who said he expects a resolution before the winter meetings start Monday in Orlando, suggested the attractiveness of staying with the Mets may have trumped Glavine’s desire to remain with his family in the Atlanta suburbs.
“As time has gone on, I think it’s actually been the potential pull and the desire to go back to New York and be a Met that has delayed this process and further complicated his decision-making,” the agent said.
As for the Mets’ patience in waiting for Glavine, Clifton added: “They’re showing an incredible amount of class, because at the end of the day they have allowed him to do everything he asked to, which was to go home, to get back into the normal family mode and give him an opportunity to really think this thing through. I think it’s working to their advantage, to be honest with you.”
Said Minaya, the Mets GM: “We have spoken several times with his agent and are waiting for a decision.”
There has been speculation that the Braves have stalled while they try to clear salary, potentially by trading Tim Hudson, who is owed $26million over 2008 and ‘09. Glavine’s preference for a no-trade clause, which the Braves do not include in contracts, is another potential complication. Then there’s the frosty relationship Schuerholz created with his book earlier this year. The GM revealed that Glavine met with him at the pitcher’s Alpharetta, Ga., home after having second thoughts on the eve of his introduction with the Mets. The southpaw seethed that Schuerholz revealed a private meeting occurred.
“With all of these second thoughts swirling around in his brain, Tommy called Bobby Cox at Bobby’s farm at Adairsville, Ga., that Saturday and, as Bobby related to us, said, ‘I made a mistake. I don’t want to do this,’” Schuerholz wrote in “Built to Win.”
As free-agent starting pitchers, including Adam Eaton and Randy Wolf, land lucrative contracts elsewhere, the Mets even more urgently could use Glavine’s services in 2007.
Meanwhile, Pedro Martinez reiterated that he expects to be out until the second half of next season, though he noted progress in his recovery from rotator cuff surgery. “The rehabilitation process is going better than expected,” Martinez said.
By Matthew
November 30, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this
Grinch and Paul:
Yes, I teach 8th grade American History, but am aiming for higher. After an M.Div and a Ph.D. in church history, I will be looking at the university level.
I will try not to trifle with toes (or thumbs) anymore. It is a little too gross, especially considering that if Bobby Cox dug in his nose with a toe-thumb and had athlete’s foot, I think Robert would get his wish for a new manager. Athlete’s thumb-toe-nose must not be trifled with either.
By KC
November 30, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this
“There has been speculation that the Braves have stalled while they try to clear salary, potentially by trading Tim Hudson”
Well, I’m not sure who’s fueling that speculation, but I would bet real money that this speculation is baseless. The Braves aren’t going to trade Tim Hudson. Giles and Ramirez are the likley candidates to go in order to clear room for Glavine, if in fact that’s what Atlanta is trying to do.
By Dennis
November 30, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this
KC
Both DOB and Ken Rosenthal who is usually on target, he also reports the Braves have several trade options for Giles. Waiting until Dec 1st is the prudent type move JS should make. If JS does not wait to make a trade in order to offer Glavine a contract, the value he will receive back in trade will go down. Everyone will know he has to make a trade because he signed Glavine and will offer less. JS knows what he is doing.
As we all know the Red Sox are crazy to trade Manny and replace him with JD Drew!
The action for the Braves will start this weekend. IM pretty sure Glavine will get an offer.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 30, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this
WOW,
I haven’t heard it, but if Alice In Chains Unplugged is better than Nirvana Unplugged, then it must be something special. That Nirvana c.d. is one of my top 5 all time albums of all time.
Eware,
Glad to see you stepped into the world of DBT. “Blessing and a Curse” is some real good stuff, but its NOT their best one by far, in my opinion. You’re in for a treat.
DOB,
Jerry Jeff Walker = country Jimmy Buffett??? I fail to see the connection here. I’m guessing you must have heard “Cowboy Boots and Bathing Suits.” That is no where close to the real JJW. I’m talking about the real 70s, sawdust floor, Lonestar and Pabst Blue Ribbon,chicken wire in front of the stage, broken beer bottle honky-tonk stuff that he did with Gary P. Nunn and Ray Wylie Hubbard BTW, he recorded several Guy Clark songs. To each his own, though……
Matthew
40 minutes of Hell tonight. Hope the bad weather don’t knock out my satellite so I can watch it. Are y’all getting any sleet or ice up that way? Nothing but rain down here so far.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this
Billy (TBNFB)
I agree with you…many of the blogs on the Official AJC site are terrible…most of the journos seem to have only a superficial understanding of the teams they write about…and most of the bloggers comments are asinine.
Stinky
I dont agree with that…never said that….probably wouldnt say that. Go read my post again.
Why does people continue to misquote me. I dont see it happening this much to anyone else but me. I know I’m not that great of a writer but damn.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this
Not that anyone cares but this is what I posted before. Should of been clearer. ATL Braves Offical Website.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 29, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this
I’ve come to the conclusion that most of the people who post at the ATL offical site are kids. Man have any of you’ve seen some of that stuff?
By Braves Fan
November 30, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
Is anyone else just ready for this entire Glavine ordeal to be over???
By KC
November 30, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this
Dennis:
I never doubt that Shuerholz knows what he’s doing. I think he’s the best in the business, and I have no doubt that he will do whatever’s in the best interest of the team. I’m just a frustrated fan who is checking the AJC site multiple times a day, hoping for good news… hoping for a Tom Glavine return, but nothing’s happened.
I understand the significance of waiting until Dec 1, but holding out for a draft pick is not worth damaging your odds of signing Glavine. As for the Giles thing… unless JS is right on the verge of closing a deal for Giles, I just don’t think that could be the delay in making an offer to Glavine.
If there truly are several teams after Giles’ services, then the Braves will not appear, nor will they actually be, desperate in any way to move Giles to the first willing taker should they sign Glavine. I seriously doubt any team that wants Giles is going to suddenly change their offer for Giles in light of the Glavine situation. If several teams want him, Atlanta’s bargaining position won’t be diminished… especially with 4 months remaining till opening day.
Again though, JS is as sharp as they come. He’ll do the right thing. I’m just an anxious fan.
By KC
November 30, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this
Braves Fan:
Dern Tootin’!!!
Do you have Shuerholz’s phone number?
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this
sorry for misqouting stinky…..actually I cut and pasted his name along with the qoute.
By mariner
November 30, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
Arkansas Hillbilly, Viva terlingua is one of my favorite albums. Wore it out in the 70s. Saw Jerry Jeff at the Yellow Rose in South Texas in 1980. I guess there is some connection to Buffett. He did introduce him to Key West and recorded Railroad Lady, a Buffett tune.
By KC
November 30, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
Arkansas:
That Nirvana Unplugged CD really is one of the greats.
Something scared the hell out of me the other day. I was talking to a 15 year old, and I mentioned Nirvana. He looked at me with a blank stare that screamed “I don’t have the first damn clue who you’re talking about”.
I’m really starting to feel old when there are people old enough to drive that don’t know who Nirvana is. lol
By matthew
November 30, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
Hillbilly
No sleet yet, just rain. As a teacher, I am naturally praying for a free-up tonight and a three-day weekend…can you blame me? Yes I will watch the Ark-Mizzou game tonight. Arkansas had a little bit of trouble with the trapping that WVU shot out of their 1-3-1 zone. Anderson’s Tigers will do more than that, but if Arkansas can win on the glass and have less than 18 turnovers I think they will win. Arkansas’ bread and butter might be the post game. Arkansas’ front line of Hill (7’), Townes (6’10”), Hunter (6’10”), and Thomas (6’8”) more than match up with Mizzou’s front liners of Lawrence (6’7”), Grimes (6’9”), Brown (6’6”), and Lyons (6’9”). Arkansas wins 73-69.
I guess, fellow bloggers, if nothing is going to happen until the weekend, we can make up our own trades:
In a three-team deal, the Braves send Giles and H. Ramirez to the Padres for Jake Peavy, and Andrew Jones to the Angels for Figgins, E. Santana, and two prospects. The Angels send cash to the Padres, who use it to sign FA pitcher Andy Petite.
Trade Hudson, Davies, T. Pena and Salty to Minnesota for Johan Santana and F. Liriano.
I like that, plus the fact that in my scenario the Braves’ budget just rose to $95 million. Use the extra cash to lock up Franceour, McCann, and Laroche to five year deals, as well as giving four year deals to Santana and Liriano.
Man I’m glad I’m not JS.
By Matthew
November 30, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
Sorry about that-meant to say a freeze-up.
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
Paul (and Matthew),
It seems the Manny trade rumors could be more legit this time. I think it’s not really about Manny’s performance, it’s more about his contract and, to a lesser, his age. They feel they could get a lot for Manny and they could also use the money they save on other pieces, I’m sure—those are the two advantages of trading him.
By Matthew
November 30, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this
The budget rises becuase Arthur Blank gets the team, not Liberty media.
BTW, did you notice that I like fleecing the Angels?
By Steve
November 30, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Hey Guys and Gals…
Metallica is one of the greatest Heavy Metal bands of all time…they blow Guns n’ Roses out of the water…If you haven’t see them live watch the Binge and Purge videos or their live cd’s from their box set….absolutly incredible…they’ll miss Jason Newstead…the bands not the same without him…but they’re still awesome…
By berigan
November 30, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this
Krath, excellent post at 11:47 about JS and about MLB being a “fluid entity”. JS can make excellent moves, but he seems of late to want to be more patient than ever. Sometimes the best trade is the one you never make, but I could almost see JS doing nothing more than signing Daryle Ward, and offering arbitration to Marcus this offseason. I could see him thinking he could trade Marcus early next season…but what if he hits .200 again batting leadoff??? There didn’t seem to be any takers at the trade deadline last year, even though he was hitting much better.
By Dennis
November 30, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this
KC
Appreciate your honesty. I also am checking the various web sites to see what is up with the Braves. I am excited with the prospect of bringing young hard throwing pitching to the Braves. I am not hung up on Glavine coming back because Im pretty sure he will not be the difference maker. I hope that we possibly trade Hudson for a very good young arm like Hayden Penn or A Loewen of the O’s. If we choose to keep A Jones which I think we will, then trade LaRoche to the Pirates for one of their young pitchers. I really wanted O Perez but the Mets beat us to him. I think we could get one of the two guys either Maholm or Gorzelanny. This would make us competitve on the mound and young. I would see Saly becoming a first baseman and staying a Brave. I also feel that Giles/ Horam will go to San Diego and we will end up with Linebrink or Meredith as a set up. We will also trade some minor leaguers with the Indians who are loaded with propspects with no where to go.
Just my two cents. I guess we need to hurry up and wait!
By Lew
November 30, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this
Bravo-Thanks for having my back, Dude. I gotta tell you, though, I had eye/lens implant surgery yesterday. It’s not like I had open heart or a bypass. Stinky can be a Whiny Little Jerk, but there were plenty of good people wishing me well to counteract his crap. Thanks to all who sent good wishes. It was appreciated. My eye’s good to go for all of those Braves Spring Training drawings and the 07 Wurlitzer award. DOB-I asked this last week, but I guess it was overlooked in the profusion of posts-Is there any chance of Thomson returning with a smaller contract for setup work? I really think he would be great one inning at a time. When healthy, he’s always been effective and a true gamer.
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
As we all know the Red Sox are crazy to trade Manny and replace him with JD Drew!
Manny’s contract has been ridiculous since day one. I think moving him for what he’s worth in a trade then spreading that money out is not a bad move. Even a would-be JD Drew contract would be slightly more runs/runs prevented for the buck than Manny, assuming he’s healthy enough to play 130 plus games. You could get 70-80 percent of Manny’s production for probably 50-60 percent of his salary.
By Carolina Lady
November 30, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this
from the NY Times article:
“Clifton………suggested the attractiveness of staying with the Mets may have trumped Glavine’s desire to remain with his family in the Atlanta suburbs.”
He’d rather be in NY than with his family??? Jiminy Christmas! I hope that really isn’t true.
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
Trade Hudson, Davies, T. Pena and Salty to Minnesota for Johan Santana and F. Liriano.
Yeah, I’m sure the Twins would jump at that one. They have the best pitcher in the world and have an All-World young catcher.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 30, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
Mariner,
Viva Terlingua. Now that’s what I’m talking about. I got to see JJW about 5 or 6 years ago in Little Rock. I’m just a youngster at 27, but I wish I could have been in my prime in the 70’s with all the great honky tonk flannel shirt crowds at a Real country music concert.
KC
Switching gears here to Nirvana. My wife asked me the other day what Nirvana was. She was in elementary school when they were popular. Talk about scary…..Has it really been that long ago????
By Greg in TN
November 30, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this
Morning folks, nothing like another day of Glavinewatch in Gotham and in the ATL.
Read this morning where Brett Butler has been named manager of the Mobile BayBears, which is the D-Back’s AA affiliate in the Southern League.
By berigan
November 30, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
I read this a few days back. Sounds like Manny quit on his team…. http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/11/22/soxshouldmakemoveon_manny/
By journalist jimmy smith
November 30, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this
scoots, the problem with reitsma is that he has three pitches and none of them are an “out” pitch. maybe glavine can teach him the circle change thrown 6 inches off the plate for a strike. union umpires? oh, the humanity! journalist did not suggest that!
By Matthew
November 30, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
I didn’t say it had to be realistic Shaun. Don’t let reality ruin this for me…
By Dennis
November 30, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this
Think about it, Clifton doesnt have much of a negociating position unless there are two teams bidding for Glavine. Everyone knows he wants to come back to Atlanta but without a bidding situation he will not get a larger contract. It is just agent posturing on Clifton’s part.
By Rodger
November 30, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
You know, I’m not entirely sold on Mr. Cliftons integrity. It doesn’t sound like all communication from the Braves is necessarily reaching Glavine, to entice him to be upset with the Braves, and take the bigger contract. Maybe Glavine doesn’t need more money, but since the agent gets a percentage of the contract, it is in his best interest to take more money. I still feel that was instrumental in Glavine leaving in the first place.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 30, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
matthew, arthur blank is not well suited to own the atlanta braves. first, there are no boutonnieres in baseball. second, imagine what would get on his suit standing three feet from bobby in the dugout. oh, the mucousity!
By Stinky
November 30, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this
Lew, after all the concern I showed yesterday, I’m hurt. The new, kinder and gentler Stinky has tried to avoid giving offense. I guess I have failed. I apologize.
But, Dude, are you sure you want Bravo Nam on your back?
By journalist jimmy smith
November 30, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this
journalist is waiting to be picked up by the sda lino for the trip to mary mac’s for lunch. journalist is most anxious to meet sometimes-nemesis sda. if pie is on today’s menu this journalist intends to buy dessert for the sda. pie is healing. perhaps harmony can be restored to this blog.
journalist jimmy smith will have a report for you all later in the day.
By FalconsFan
November 30, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
Cannot believe the Braves would pay close to 8 million for Glavine.
He is over the hill. 40 yrs old.
Go with younger pitures.
Forget Glavine.
Maybe Maddox again.
Or better yet Phil K
By berigan
November 30, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
Grinch, only the first 4 Megadeth albums are good??? Dude!!! All 10 have something to recommend. They never killed the guitar solo,(Unlike the other M band did on the last cd, but it still rocks) but they have tried to go more melodic, which I can’t blame any band for doing. You cannot keep playing the same thing for decades and not get bored with the formula. If you want some laughs, go to youtube.com and look at the comments under either Metallica, or Megadeth. So many fans of one band, bash unmercifully the other band. I have never been an either or the other fan , I liked both, with Megadeth getting the edge for being faster, and angrier(well, until St. Anger came out)
By Dave
November 30, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this
The more I think about it, the more I think the guy may be right who said JS and Glavine may have already reached agreement and are holding off announcing to save the draft picks. I sure hope so anyway, otherwise JS is about to add another blunder to ‘06’s bullpen fiasco and strengthening the Mets at the same time. Keeping my fingers crossed.
By HugeFan
November 30, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this
this is some out of the box thinking, but SF doesn’t want Bonds back…why don’t we sign Barry for a year, and bat him lead off? Sounds crazy right? But think about it, he gets walked a ton so you start most games off with a guy on first or a 1 run lead. We have good hitting pitchers who will see a lot of fastballs. Lead off problem solved. LF solved. we could probably get him for around 10 million I would think. Plus he breaks Hank’s record here in ATL, that’s kind of cool
By berigan
November 30, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this
JJS, you taught me a new word today! boutonnieres! I had to google it to find out what “it” was. At first, I thought it was a name for fans of pitcher/writer Jim Bouton.
By Voice of Reason
November 30, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Hello, C-Lady. Fear not. The assertion by Glav’s agent that his heart is in NY is nothing more than posturing. I mean, really, does it make any sense whatsoever that Glav would want to stay in NY, so he opts out of guaranteed money to explore going somewhere he doesn’t want to be? It’s obvious he just wants a reasonable contract offer from JS. He promised the Mets an answer before Dec. 4; he can be signed after Dec. 1 without giving up draft picks. It’s all about the timing…
I think that JS knows that the natives are restless, and that any perceived lack of activity toward improving the team will be received as gracefully as a fart in church. He simply can’t afford to stand inactive and appease an already frustrated fanbase. I won’t be surprised if he doesn’t pull some unexpected rabbit out of his hat sometime during the Winter Meetings.
I saw Alice In Chains at the Cotton Club in the early 90’s. They were very drunk, very obnoxious, very bad, and very rude in response to the audience’s dissatisfaction. I’ve had no use for them since. The only “grunge” band that I really care for is Soundgarden… maybe Pearl Jam in small doses.
“Long live rock…” - Pete Townsend
By Rodger
November 30, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this
HugeFan, I think thats a huge slap in Aaron’s face. That would be condoning Bonds accomplishing thru chemistry what the Hammer did naturally. I hope he signs in the AL so we don’t even have to see him, but then again it might be worthwhile to be able to boo his every appearance.
By Rodger
November 30, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
VOR, had much the same AIC experience with Aerosmith in the late 70s-TWICE! Bad sound system, bad performance, they didn’t care. Then all of a sudden, they became a great show, but by then I wasn’t interested!
By Greg in TN
November 30, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
Yeah, keep the Incredible Hulk on the west coast or in the AL. We don’t need him, his ego and all of the distractions here. Plus, not a good way to treat Hammer, so I agree with Rodger.
I also agree with Voice of Reason. JS is moving deliberately, there are plenty of things that need to be done on the payroll front before we can even address dollars with Glavine or else we wind up with Maddux/Millwood all over again. The Mets don’t expect an answer until first of next week, so there’s still time for JS to pull a Monty Hall.
By Howie from Poughkeepsie
November 30, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this
Bonds as leadoff? Yeah, right….a leadoff hitter is a table-setter….getting on base, then moving into scoring position. How does Bonds get from first to second…in a limo?
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this
Voice of Reason,
I agree….another point offbalance right up till the winter meetings. A little gamesmanship mabey?
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
Hillbilly, I’m always willing to admit when I might have the wrong take on a band or solo artist (like Grinch with Screaming Trees, whom he thought were like Drivin’ and Cryin’, and they most definitely aren’t.)
So you’re telling me you think Jerry Jeff is closer to, say, Coe than Buffett? Then which CD should I get, ‘cause I’ll definitely try it if that’s the case.
But let me just say, from the rootsy/country/blues genre I prefer serious stuff and great songwriting like Steve Earle, Guy Clark, Townes Van Zandt, James McMurtry and Lucinda Williams. You put Jerry Jeff in that type of company as a singer/songwriter?
By Dave
November 30, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
The more I think about it, the more I think the guy may be right who said JS and Glavine may have already reached agreement and are holding off announcing to save the draft picks. I sure hope so anyway, otherwise JS is about to add another blunder to ‘06’s bullpen fiasco and strengthening the Mets at the same time. Keeping my fingers crossed.
By KC
November 30, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
Why are so many baseball writers wasting time writing about Mark McGuire??? I mean, could that possibly be more of a non-issue. He’s got no chance at the Hall now, and everyone knows it. Write about something else!!!
To quote Dennis Miller… If my yawn got any bigger, they’d have to assign it a hurricane name.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
Howie from Poughkeepsie (that sounds like a Larry King caller), great line about Bonds getting to second base.
Bonds as a leadoff guy was a good idea _ 20 years ago, when Leyland did it.
By rammerjammer
November 30, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
According to the San Diego paper, the Padres are now talking with free agent 2B Tony Graffanino, and they thought they had Counsell locked up before the Brewers outbid them.
Doesn’t sound like a team on the Giles radar, does it?
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this
Greg, Mets actually expect answer BEFORE start of winter meetings, which begin Monday. Glavine and his agent had told them they’d have an answer by this Friday, though there’s a little wiggle room on that.
Bottom line, Mets wanted an answer by Sunday, when they’re down in their Orlando suite planning on their strategy for the meetings and going after Zito or whoever.
Then again, what should the Braves care about whether the Mets are put out or in limbo?
By KC
November 30, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this
I saw Tenacious D over the weekend, and I’ve gotta tell ya… I deeply regret that I’ll never get that 2 hours of my life back.
Some of the big classic rock fans here might enjoy it if you’re a fan of pervasively crude humor, but personally, I’d rather place my testicles in a vice than sit through that movie again.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this
Voice of Reason _ good stuff in your 11:08 post. Well, until the Alice In Chains note. Here’s my thing on that: So they were drunk and obnoxious. Dude, they are a ROCK band, not a sports team signing autographs for the kids. Rock bands have been known to imbibe and get crazy (Led Zep in waterfront Seattle hotel, Jim Morrison on Miami stage, etc).
So they were wasted and stunk live. Then you learned not to waste money to see them again live. But I fail to see how that should affect whether you like their recorded music. I don’t see the connection. it’s good or it’s not, who cares if they were obnoxious live. Just my two cents on that.
I know you’re certainly entitled to your opinion and i’m not going to change it. But if I saw Steve Early in his using days and he couldn’t remember lyrics or stumbled off the stage, it wouldn’t make me dislike Steve Earle today. It would merely give me something to recall about Steve Earle, and to marvel at the genius of a songwriter able to get through all that and produce beautiful music to this day.
In the case of Alice in Chains, your experience would leave me thinking what a waste that a band so talented could see its lead singer not able to overcome his addiction before it killed him. But if they put out music I liked, I’d still like it the same. Seeing that, hey, these rock guys are drunks, wouldn’t affect what I thought about their recorded music.
This just in: Hank Williams was a blackout drunk, and if you’d have run into him on certain nights you’d probably have thought him the biggest loser on earth. But the man was a pure genius who wrote some of the greatest songs ever written. Period.
By KC
November 30, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
DOB:
If you had to guess, and that’s all I’m looking for (just your gut feeling)… do you think the Braves will make an offer to Glavine in the next day or two?
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
Huge fan, I love how you started this post:
“This is some out of the box thinking, but SF doesn’t want Bonds back…why don’t we sign Barry for a year, and bat him lead off?”
Dude, that’s not out-of-the-box thinking, that’s inside-the-asylum thinking.
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
KC,
Nothing much is going on in the world of baseball and it’s something that’s easy to write about—controversial, lends itself to argument, etc.
By Lew
November 30, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
Stinky-I appreciate any good wishes sent my way. However, any flattery coming from you is usually couched in sarcasm or ill wishes. You are hardly the innocent you make yourself out to be. Besides-You give grief to Journalist Jimmy Smith, you may as well give me grief. He and many others on this blog are considered friends. You, on the other hand (or is that on the other toe), probably don’t have friends. That may be the crux of your problem.
By Oregon Braves fan
November 30, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
DOB - I know that Hudson was rumored to being shopped to the Orioles, so what do you think about Hudson and Renteria (and maybe a low level prospect) to the O’s for Tejada? I know that he expressed some dissatisfaction as recent as last offseason, but I haven’t heard his name thrown out there this year.
By JASON BARBER
November 30, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
there is conflicting information in this article given the fact that bill shanks chief long time braves beat writer and chief writer on scout.com says that the braves have offered glavine anywhere from 6-8 million for 2007 with an option year for 2008
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this
Huge fan, I love how you started this post:
“This is some out of the box thinking, but SF doesn’t want Bonds back…why don’t we sign Barry for a year, and bat him lead off?”
Dude, that’s not out-of-the-box thinking, that’s inside-the-asylum thinking.
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
David O’Brien,
Is Craig Wilson a possibility for the Braves? He can backup LaRoche and give the Braves another LF option. Only thing is he may be expensive for a part-time player. But then again, how much demand is there for a part-time 1B/COF? Maybe he can be had at a decent price.
By Greg in TN
November 30, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
Thanks for setting me straight, DOB. With things progressing as they are, I think the scenario mentioned by someone else earlier makes more sense. It could very well be that JS has one or two acceptable deals ready to pull the trigger and he’s just waiting to see if the pot gets any sweeter before he fires.
The Mets have indeed handled themselves very well in terms with how they’ve handled Glavine, but that’s because they respect and need him, not because they want to throw us a bone. Switch the two teams in this scenario and the Mets could care less if this puts the Braves in a bad situation or not.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
KC, you’re feeling old talking to folks who don’t know Nirvana? Imagine how old I feel talking to people who don’t know Husker Du, a band that rocked with a fury but also wrote songs could stand up as beautiful gems if done acoustically? Or when I try to explain to people that “Rock the Casbah” wasn’t even in the Clash’s top 20 songs and that it came at the END of their reign as The Only Band That Matters, not the beginning.
By HugeFan
November 30, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
You guys just aren’t thinking it through, we’re a point to point team anyway, Bonds as lead off is perfect for that. Getting one speed guy isn’t going to turn us into a speed team, let’s go with our strength…the 3 run homer.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this
Off topic.
Here’s something to picture as you look ahead to the offseason: Michael Vick in a Raiders jersey. The Falcons, who have given Vick every possible chance, will be willing to part with their quarterback and would gladly take draft picks. — Charlotte Observer
By Lew
November 30, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this
DOB-Years ago, while at school (Mercer U) in Macon, Jackson Browne and David Linley played. Halfway through the show, Greg Allman walked up on stage. Now this was surely a once in a lifetime concert situation. Unfortunately, it was during Greg’s heroin addiction period and he was totally fried. He forgot the lyrics and then the chords to Sweet Melissa, not once, but three or four times. So much for the positive kind of once in a lifetime experience. Knowing what lay beneath the surface(Greg’s addiction plus having just lost his brother and Berry Oakley) made it somewhat more understandable, but still hard to swallow. Even though I’ve seen Greg since then and have purchased his music, I really understand what VOR is saying. Not only did Greg mess up his own performance, it was embarrassing for Browne and Lindley, also. I had a similar situation with Traffic at the Omni in Atlanta not long after, when Stevie Winwood pitched a tantrum and walked off the stage after 20 minutes (I still think it was because Chris Wood was to screwed up to stand, much less play flute).
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
Bionic Lew, I haven’t heard anything about Thomson as a setup man. For one thing, I don’t think he’s ready, in his own mind, to move from starting to setup work, since I think he wants to go out and prove again that he can be a good starter and pick up where he left off with Atlanta before his string of injuries. If he has a good year as a starter for someone on a cheap one-year deal, he could cash in a year from now.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 30, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I don’t know much about the singer/songwriters that you just mentioned so I can’t make that comparison. And I wouldn’t really compare him too closely to Coe. Can’t really explain it. He wrote “Mr. Bojangles and now I can’t remember who else recorded it (Nitty Gritty Dirt Band maybe.
I do know that JJW recorded “Desperados waiting for a Train,” “L.A.Freeway,” “Like a Coat From the Cold,” and “That Old Time Feeling” which were all written by Guy Clark. He has definitely evolved IN A NEGATIVE WAY (in my opinion) through the years. Viva Terlingua, Ridin’ High, and A Man Must Carry On are some of the older countrier albums that I like. I will admit he doesn’t have the loveliest singing voice in the world, but then again neither does Patterson Hood, or Roger Waters or Stevie Ray Vaughn.
Don’t worry, out of all the music I try to get other people into (DBT, Pink Floyd, Neil Young, Uncle Tupelo, Shooter Jennings) Jerry Jeff Walker is by far the hardest one for me to hook anyone on.
Try to see if you can download clips of these songs. This will let you know the JJW that I am into.
Up against the Wall Redneck (the original Viva Terlingua version)
London Homesick Blues with Gary P. Nunn
L.A. Freeway
Mississippi Your on my Mind
By Lew
November 30, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this
Oregon Braves Fan-I sincerely doubt that Tejada and his whining would be tolerated in Atlanta. Not only that, but you would trade Hudson AND Renteria (an all star SS) for this whining little dude that barely hit better than Edgar? No flippin way, Dude.
By Lew
November 30, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
Huge Fan-There’s nothing to think through. No One wants the steroid King in Atlanta. Total disruption would result and we don’t want Hank’s record broken at all-much less in Atlanta by that jerk.
By Voice of Reason
November 30, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
DOB: The AIC thing is more than a drunk rock band stumbling through its set. I’ve seen that alot. (Back in my heathen days, I did that alot.) In a very intimate setting, they were insulting, calling us all dumb rednecks, spitting at us and throwing beer out on us. That was before we, as an audience, displayed our dissatisfaction. But, hey, that’s just my opinion. If it were Stevie Ray (God rest his soul) or somebody I really idolized, I’d probably give them a pass…
I also saw King’s X at the Cotton Club. Those dudes were fantastic. Probably the best show I saw there. Anybody remember a local band (late 80’s/early 90’s) called Skin Deep? Absolutely incredible. Should been huge, but lost their drummer to a car wreck. He was the heart and soul of the band, and they never recovered.
By HugeFan
November 30, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
Come on, it’s all about winning. You’ve got to think who gives us the best chance to win 95 to 100 games it’s going to take to unseat the Mets. because you know they’re going to get Zito and/or Schmidtt and maybe move Heillman into the starting rotation. I think Barry’s just misunderstood. Did you ever check out his show? I saw one where he gave a kid his glove, those kind of things just don’t get reported.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
HugeFan,
Despite my defense of Bonds, this would be a really bad idea. For starters the amount of money it would cost us to sign him would make us even more limited than we already are payroll wise much less the enourmas PR fiaco that would ensue. We are about the worst match for Bonds as any team out their.
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this
HugeFan,
I hope this is some kind of joke. Bonds as leadoff maybe would have been ingenious, originally thinking in 2001-2004 but not in 2007. Teams aren’t going to pitch around Bonds anymore and he’s not a spectacular hitter anymore. He hit .270 and his slugging percentage was lower than it had been since 1991.
Not too mention he’s 42, so it would be a huge risk to sign him for any significant amount of money.
Also, he can’t really contribute anything on defense anymore. He almost has to be a DH somewhere at this point, I would think.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this
HugeFan,
I know what your gonna feel like B’cuz your about to get the wrath of the blog.
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I haven’t heard much about Tejada whining. Maybe I just haven’t read enough about him. But I think a bigger problem is his huge contract.
By Voice of Reason
November 30, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this
OK, HugeFan, since you asked me to think it through… Do you honestly believe any pitcher, or any manager for that matter, would intentionally walk the 1st batter of the game? Thinking out of the box is one thing; falling out of the box and hitting your head is another…
By Paul
November 30, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
Now that a Manny trade seems likely, Yankee fans have to be cheering. As much as he is a pain, he is a RBI machine. Imagine Manny at Camden Yards? Replacing Manny with Drew wouldn’t give Sox fans a warm and fuzzy feeling. Shaun, I know his contract is huge, but look at what Soriano and Pierre got. Here’s a question, who would you rather have Andruw or Manny? I know Manny is horrendous in the field, but how many runs/games does Andruw save a season? How would Manny do in a pitcher’s park? I know a trade like that would probably never happen, but it would be interesting/good debate.
By Lew
November 30, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this
DOB-Bionic, indeed, Abiding Dude. I am seeing better 24 hours after the implant than I have in 3 years since they did the first of the 8 procedures.I might actually be able to see what I’m painting now. I hadn’t thought the Thomson deal out quite that far. I had heard a report that he was willing to do setup at a reduced price for the Braves. However, that was before the recent insanity explosion on pitcher’s salaries. He might just receive a decent deal to start somewhere. Too bad, though, I would love to see him doing setup for the Braves. Huge Fan-Give up the Bonds thing. It’s a really bad idea, Dude, for many reasons. VOR-Saw King’s X in Tampa with LA Guns and Billy Squier. That was a good show, for sure.
By Lew
November 30, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
Shaun-Ever since he signed the contract with the Orioles, Tejada has been griping about something and trying to get the O’s to trade him. Last winter he was all upset that the Orioles didn’t go get the players he thought were necessary to winning. Then he demanded a trade. Then retracted the demand. Then demanded to be traded. I don’t think he’s the type of player BC wants in the dugout, contract size or no.
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this
Paul,
Soriano and Pierre’s contracts are just as or more horrendous than Ramirez’s. The Sox just see an opportunity to get several quality players for Ramirez plus they can use that extra money on more good players. It’s not that the Red Sox don’t appreciate his abilities, it’s that they see an opportunity to get more bang for the buck. Rather than tie all that money into one great player, they see an opportunity to get several really good players for less money that will replace his run production/prevention.
By Oregon Braves fan
November 30, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this
You mean would I trade a disappointing Hudson and a solid (not great) SS for Tejada’s 25-35 homer/100+ RBI average season? Yes, I would at least consider it. Also, Shaun, when he signed his deal with the O’s a few years ago it was a huge contract. Not by today’s standards. His 2006 salary was a shade under $12MM. Hudson’s was $6MM and Renteria’s was $10MM (even though I believe the Red Sox paid around $3MM of that.) It might not work out, but I thought I would raise the question at least.
By Stinky
November 30, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this
Lew, did the best I could to be civil and cheerful. I’ll keep my sentimentality to myself in the future. Sick time’s over. Go milk a maple tree.
By Oregon Braves fan
November 30, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this
Lew - Completely understand about the griping annoyance. But we did trade for Gary Sheffield, didn’t we?
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
Lew,
It seems like most of his griping is from not winning, something that you have to appreciate in a way. I see him more as a John Smoltz, Curt Schilling type griper; he’s just outspoken and opinionated in a fairly harmless way. He’s still going to give it his all and he wants to win more than anyone.
By KC
November 30, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Who’s Husker Du?? Just kidding.
What would be your guess on the Braves move from here? If you were wagering, would you bet that Atlanta will make an offer to Glavine in the next few days?
Just wondering what your gut is on this.
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
Oregon Braves fan and Paul,
I don’t think a Tejada for Hudson and Renteria trade would be too bad. But I don’t know if the Orioles would go for it. Plus, you’re still paying a lot of money to one guy, which is something you probably want to avoid if you’re trying to keep your payroll down.
By Lew
November 30, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
Sttinky-You’re nothing but a Whiny Little Jerk. You wish me well and in the next sentence (shouted at me) you ask if I’m old like Jimmy Smith and then ask about porn movies. Just why do I get the feeling that you don’t wish anyone well. You could have just said-Lew, I’m glad you’re doing well. That I might have believed and graciously accepted. But you instead, chose to turn the post into a mockery and an oppurtunity to put down Jimmy Smith. The only item in your post that I think is true is your statement that it was time for your meds. Not only do I not want sympathy from insincere Whiny Little Jerks-I don’t need it. In case you haven’t noticed, I received plenty of good wishes from sincere people here on the blog that I believe really care.
By Matthew
November 30, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this
JJS:
“Oh the mucosity?”
Now the blog has risen to a new low. Gross…
By Lew
November 30, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
Shaun and Oregon-It really doesn’t matter if he whines and for what reason. The trade as proposed is just a bad trade. Hudson, Renteria AND a prospect for Tejeda is just plain not good. Tejada’s numbers are not that much better than Edgar’s. Edgar is outrageously cheap. Shaun, you and KC keep trying to convince us that Hudson will come back strong. I wouldn’t trade either of these guys straight up for Tejeda under the circumstances and Oregon wants to throw in a prospect, too. I just fail to see the equity for the Braves in this deal. And don’t tell me that Tejada has that much more power than Edgar. Who cares? We don’t need offensive upgrades. We need pitching. Are you telling me Tejada will win 15 games? I doubt it. There’s much more chance of Hudson pulling that off.
By Voice of Reason
November 30, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
KC: I know you weren’t asking me, but here’s my guess. Glavine will sign over the weekend, before the Winter Meetings start, Giles will be moved during the meetings, and JS will surprise us with something we’ve not speculated about before the end of the month.
“Keep on rockin’ in the free world…” - N. Young
By sri
November 30, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this
how about signing Ray Durham. He can play both infield and left field.
By jason
November 30, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this
I like Tejada and would like to see him in the middle of that lineup, what i just dont see the point in that. Yes he is better than Renteria, but to trade both and get no pitcher in return seems in vain. If we could then manage to pry Santana and Adenhart from LA, then i would say yes, but the fact is we need a better, younger staff than we have. We have no one in the minors that is a year to two years away from being able to contribute pitching wise, so we need to at least get a couple more young arms. If not we are in trouble.
By Bravo Nam
November 30, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
TJ
You’re right- not my style- glad all is cool.
Stinky
All your 6.46am post did was confirm my 5.53am.
Billy
Looks like the Stinky Weasel got his just desserts. You innocently mistook him for the post I wrote, and then realised your mistake. Don’t feel bad about it- after all the grief he’s caused so many bloggers, seems like sweet justice.
Anyway, on to the point you were actually making- you wrote the Atlanta Offical Site- I assumed you meant the AJC Site- anyway, thanks for clearing it up.
Carolina Lady
Yes, after all this talk about the importance of his family, let’s hope Clifton wasn’t spot on when he talked about the importance of the Mets to Glavine.
Rodger
Yeah, I’m not sure about the integrity of most agents. I think Clifton’s spinning a lot of smoke screens out there…it becomes very difficult to ascertain what is genuine and what’s not.
Voice of Reason
I agree with your 11.08am post. I mentioned it much earlier on in the blog- I too think Clifton is posturing- if he’s not, then Tommy has been overstating the importance of being close to his family, and the 300 in a Braves uniform is not quite as precious to him as we assume.
DOB
I won’t argue with you about whether or not “Rock the Casbah” even makes their top 20 songs…but if it doesn’t, then the Clash are an incredible talent, coz that song rocks.
By jd
November 30, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
dob…saw steve earle at berkeley couple of years ago-great show, incl. what’s left of the Dead, jackson browne, bonnie raitt, etc…he was great, clearly clean; but, man his political ramblings just about drove me nuts…wanted to yell “don’t care whether you’re liberal, socialist, or neanderthal; just shut up and sing”…unfortunately, i didn’t and he didn’t… my congrats on this blog btw…much higher quality than the falcon’s blog
By Shaun
November 30, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I basically agree. Tejada makes somewhat close to what Hudson and Renteria make by himself. I don’t know if Hudson is going to come back that strong, but he’s certainly going to be better.
By KC
November 30, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
LEW:
Never tried to convince anyone that Hudson will come back strong… but simply that it’s likely that he will. Based an numerous factors, if I were betting money, I would lay 3-1 odds that Hudson will finish with an ERA well under 4.00 next season.
By Baby Seal
November 30, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
Has anyone heard from Jimmy Smith? He should have been home by now.
By brian
November 30, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
DOB-
in regards to post last night about Glavine - I was not saying Glavine was going to sign for $8 million or an offer had been made. I just said if (and actually a big if) Glavine were to sign for that type of discount it would be a huge addition for the braves.
I was just responding late to posts on the previous blog (sorry, although I love your blogs I do not sit at my computer 24/7 and read them). When the rumor was floating around that Glavine would be signed for $8 million, people thought that would be a stupid move for the Braves. I was called an idiot for thinking that signing Glavine would be a good move. I just wanted to see why people were so anti-Glavine, and see what other suggestions they had that could improve our rotation like Glavine would for $8 million (especially in this market)
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/john_donovan/11/30/manny.redsox/1.html
There it is again….Braves in these discussions.
How bout this:
Linebrink + Peavy goes to the Braves
A. Jones with contract extention goes to BOSOX
Giles/M. Ramierez goes to SD.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this
JD, the fact that Earle doesn’t care about offending people, to me, just adds to his indisputable integrity. He could sell a ton more records and not turn off so many people if he kept politics out of it and just wrote a bunch of songs like he did on Copperhead Row or Guitar Man, but he’s realized as he’s aged and cleaned up that he wants to take a stand and make a difference. He goes around to prisons talking to death-row inmates, offering his assistance, etc. The man stands for something, and in this day and age that appeals to me, whether folks agree with him or not.
VOR _ Keep on rockin’ in the free world, indeed. Speaking of rockers who take a stand….
Nam, the Clash were beyond greatness. One of the bands that, 50 years from now, will truly still sound revolutionary and important. Most crap today will sound dated, small, insignificant. They will stand tall, forever. Joe Strummer, man. Joe Strummer.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this
Then we sign glavine for 8 million
Smoltz Peavy Glavine Hampton Hudson
Now how bout that one?
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this
Oh, and the reason I checked back in (almost forgot): Just got off the phone with Glavine’s agent, and he hasn’t spoken to Braves since Tuesday.
I think it’s pretty clear Braves are waiting for 1. the deadline Saturday for Mets to offer or decline arbitration to Glavine, so Braves won’t have to give up first-round pick if they sign him and Mets don’t offer arbitration, and 2. Braves still trying to complete at least one trade.
Of course, if Mets wanted to counter Braves’ strategy (assuming it is their strategy), Mets could simply offer Glavine arbitration, perhaps with a gentlemen’s agreement that he wouldn’t accept (kind of thing happens all the time). Then Braves would have to give up the draft pick anyway if they signed him….
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this
Actually, the deadline is tomorrow night at midnight, for teams to offer arbitration to their free agents. So I’d expect the Braves to make an offer Saturday or Sunday, if they want Glavine back (and I’m pretty sure they are serious about wanting him back).
They could wait until next week, screw with the Mets’s plans a bit more, but I really think they’d be risking turning off Glavine to such a degree that, at some point during the meetings, the Mets will need a yes-or-no from him and Glavine just might go back, unless he’s certain the Braves will make him a fair offer.
By Rodger
November 30, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
Maybe the problem with getting talks going is Glav doesn’t consider JS a homeboy?
By jd
November 30, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
dob, anyone going to a concert in berkeley with browne, raitt, earle, etc. has to be prepared for some politics…most of which i agree with…but,he was 5 minutes of talk for every minute of music…that said, glad he’s speaking up and contributing-his music is great…with you on the clash…oh, wait-this is a baseball blog, isn’t it?
By elbravox
November 30, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this
DOB- Doing the holiday shopping thing, what is the best Tom Waits CD? Thanks.
By Stinky
November 30, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
Lew, you must be feeling better. Glad to read it. Keep on keepin’ on. And don’t forget to milk that tree.
By Tyler
November 30, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
DOB,
If the Braves sign Glavine and trade Hudson, that still leaves an open spot in the rotation. Would they fill the spot with Davis, or make another trade for someone like Peavy?
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
Elbravox, someone asked that yesterday (and day before, I think). Tough to say 3-4, much less one, so I’d have to say Heart of Saturday Night, Rain Dogs, Swordfishtrobones, and Mule Variations, the latter his best recent effort, the first three from his earlier years.
Frank’s Wild Years also great. So is Big Time, a sort of greatest-hits live thing…
By Rodger
November 30, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
Since we’re throwing talking in with music, I know Rodney Ho probably covered this, but what the hell is with Clear Channel? In 3 weeks they: Fire the Regular Guys (8 years), change the format at 96 Rock (34 years), fire Tom Hughes (almost 30 years) and the Kimmer (almost 20 years). Thats about 90 years of Atlanta radio tossed! Oh the humanity!
By TK
November 30, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
How about in trades? Giles & Ramirez to SD for Jake Peavy. Hudson & Aybar to O’s for Brian Roberts. May need to add some others to make trades work. But they are the major players.
By Sammy Kershaw
November 30, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this
I would be a happy man if i never had to hear Copperhead Road again…
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
Regarding Waits, I’d be remiss if I didn’t also include at least one album from his earliest years in the 70s, when many will argue he did his best work. Nighthawks at the Diner and Heartattack and Vine were both great.
He’s changed so much, putting out slightly more contemporary sounding concept albums like Rain Dogs and Swordfishtrombones in the 80s, after establishing himself with the acoustic, half-spoken, weathered-sounded gravel-voiced, piano ballad stuff early. It’s all so great, though. Maybe start with one of his greatest-hits packages (he’s got two or three from different periods of his career.
But definitely get Mule Variations to see where he’s been the past decade or so. Great stuff
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
November 30, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
Billy
You Wrote:
“How bout this: Linebrink + Peavy goes to the Braves, A. Jones with contract extention goes to BOSOX, Giles/M. Ramierez goes to SD.”
I’m confused to say the least!!!
What else is Boston giving up to get Andruw? Because from what I can tell, we’d just be trading Giles/Ramirez for Linebring/Peavey and just be GIVING Andruw to the Red Sox! Why? Because, JS is friendly? LOL!
While we’re at it, why don’t we trade Davies/LaRoche to the Tigers for Rogers/Young, but just for good measure, GIVE the Red Sox Smoltz (with a contract extension of course!)
I’m assuming that when you “thought up” your proposed trade, the Red Sox were going to have to GIVE SOMTHING UP TO GET ANDRUW, but since you dindn’t mention it, I had to give you CRAP! LOL!
Sorry.
By DonCoburleone
November 30, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
I think getting Glavine back would be a huge plus for this team. It would give them another reliable veteran starter to join Smoltz and Hudson. Combine those 3 with Hampton and Chucky, now theres a rotation that could challenge any other 5 man rotation in baseball. It would definately require a trade of HoRam and Giles however… Shoot, if the Braves sign Glavine they could just focus on 1 solid reliever and then a bunch of prospects for Giles and HoRam… I will be very excited if Glavine is signed and I believe without question it would make the Braves a better team for ‘06…
DO IT!! SIGN GLAVINE ALREADY!!!
By journalist jimmy smith
November 30, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
just got back in from lunch. this journalist will have quite a story to relate at a later time.
now, friendship … lew, stinky is reaching out to you. maybe you should send stinky that “special” bottle of maple syrup. you know, the one you save for company (wink, wink).
By ernesto
November 30, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
Not that you asked me but if I was introducing a newbie to Waits, I’d give them Closing Time. This helps acquire the taste, then move to the harder stuff. Also nice to play for hte ladies.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
Tyler, you wrote:
“If the Braves sign Glavine and trade Hudson, that still leaves an open spot in the rotation. Would they fill the spot with Davis, or make another trade for someone like Peavy?”
IF they were to trade Hudson and sign Glavine (and I’m not at all sure they’ll trade Hudson), you’d have Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, James, and probably either Davies or Ramirez, or they could pick up another veteran off the scrap heap between now and then to compete for a spot, or get some No. 5-type guy back in a trade, etc. Anything can happen. No use throwing darts at a board until I hear more next week.
By Glass Half Full
November 30, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
The Braves could offer Glavine a 2nd year since Andruw won’t be around in 2008 to absorb payroll.
By DonCoburleone
November 30, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
Okay, right now, I would trade Giles and HoRam for Linebrink and an A prospect…
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
Ernesto, good call _ Closing Time, more accessible CD than some of his other stuff.
By CharlotteDave
November 30, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
DOB: It’s my understanding that since the Braves finished in the bottom half of Baseball, record wise, they wouldn’t lose their first round pick by signing a type A free agent like Glavine. That is, unless they changed the rule with the new labor agreement.
By Voice of Reason
November 30, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
Glav should never have been allowed to leave ATL to begin with. Much like Dominique in a Clippers uni, or Bartkowski in LA Rams blue/yellow, it just wasn’t right. Time to restore balance…
“But it’s better than some factory, That’s no place to waste your youth. I worked there for a week once, But luckily got the boot.” - J. Strummer
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
obviously we would get Peavy and Linebrink despite my typo….lol as if that senerio would happen anyways.
By ernesto
November 30, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
Not that you asked me but if I was introducing a newbie to Waits, I’d give them Closing Time. This helps acquire the taste, then move to the harder stuff. Also nice to play for hte ladies.
By KC
November 30, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
I’ve seen a lot of suggestions in this forum that the Braves should trade both Giles and Horacio Ramirez to San Deigo.
I don’t think we should trade HoRam anywhere unless we get Glavine or another top-tier starter, but if we do trade him… it does seem like SD would be a perfect fit.
HoRam cut is HR/9 inning ratio in half this season from last, but he still gets a lot of fly balls, and Petco’s spacious outfield would suit him well. Also, he’s from Southern California and loves it there.
I got lambasted by DOB for purposing a similar trade the other day, but here’s the trade I would purpose to San Diego if I were Braves GM…
Giles, Ramirez, Davies, and a mid-level prospect
for
Jake Peavy and Scott Linebrink.
By Lew
November 30, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
Nathan-He was talking about Manny Ramirez, not Horacio. The Red Sox WOULD be giving up something. Andruw won’t agree to go to Boston, though, and I doubt the Padres would give up Peavey and Linbrink for a bat with that kind of contract attached to him. I sure wouldn’t. Esteemed Journalist Jimmy Seal Daddy-Stinky, unlike others, is not worthy of 100% Vermont Maple Syrup. He couldn’t handle it.
By Tyler
November 30, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
File this in the Idiot Department: From a Jon Heyman column, “Leventhal also pointed out Suppan has more wins than any other pitcher on the free-agent market. Who knew?” Can anyone say Greg Maddux? Suppan 106 vs. Maddux 333 What a joke!
By elbravox
November 30, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB. I bought The Early Years Vol. I and II, plus his latest one. Tower Records has some great deals! I wish Mr. Glavine and The Braves would get this done NOW! Talking about not giving in- both JS and TG are cut from the same cloth.
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 30, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
with glavine, we’re looking at a possbility of having 3 lefties in next year’s rotation (glavine, hampton, james); if we were to trade hudson, maybe even four (ramirez, assuming he’s not traded, wouldn’t have a spot in next year’s rotation if hudson sticks around).
if that’s the case, then… 1) along with smoltz, 3-4 lefties would give us a pretty good chance vs the mets, who hit LHP pretty poorly this year. 2) wouldn’t opponents try to steal less often?
those are two things that come to mind immediately; i’m sure there are more advantages to having more LHP in a rotation.
By KC
November 30, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
Tyler:
I would also point out that Jeff Suppan has a slightly better ERA over the past 3 seasons than Barry Zito.
By KC
November 30, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
Hey, I’ve got an idea no one’s thought of for next season… What if we were to trade for Carl Crawford?! Thoughts anyone? lol
By ncscoots
November 30, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
Daybed, only one little thing wrong with your mostly-lefty rotation: the small fact that most hitters in MLB are right-handed. Oops.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 30, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this
WOW,
31 degree temperature drop in three hours. Typical Arkansas weather. Its getting cold. Better wrap up my ring finger.
By MrMet
November 30, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this
David, Is the date mid-nite Dec 1…because that is in 7 hours…for the Mets to offer abritration to Tom Glavine?
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 30, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this
Hey SEC Fans,
If LSU is going to the Rose Bowl, where is that gonna leave the Florida Gators?…. uhhhhh…ummm…I mean..uhhhh…whoever loses the SEC Championship game?
By ncscoots
November 30, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
KC, scratch that Crawford thing…if the Braves are going to break the bank in a Tampa Bay trade, they should ask for Baldelli. Heck, he’s making more than Crawford, they should be GLAD to dump him, LOL!
By KC
November 30, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this
nscoots:
That’s true, but irrelevant where Glavine and C.James are concerned. Both pitch as well or better against right-handed hitters as they do against left-handed hitters.
By Lew
November 30, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
KC-There will be a hit man dispatched to your home any minute now for bringing up that Ray’s player. Journalist Jimmy-The mail goes out next Tues. after the toe doctor appointment. I thought it was somehow appropriate.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 30, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
no, no, lew - not 100% vermont maple syrup for stinky - journalist was thinking more of “special” maple syrup (wink, wink). oh, well, stinky would get sticky if stinky ate sticky syrup. now, tom glavine … rumor is that tg has bought a ny museum and is having it moved to fulton county. surely this means tg will again be a brave. “uh, you bought a what?”
By michael
November 30, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this
MrMet, Dec 1 is the last day to offer arbitration. So it’s Midnight Friday night.
By Lew
November 30, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
There’s an interesting story on SI.com by Tom Verducci about overworking young pitchers. The Marlins and Phillies are screwed next year.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 30, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this
kc, journalist is reminded that bobby considered remlinger to be a right-handed specialist. not pretty.
lew, good luck with the toe man. that reminds this journalist that it is time for a toe check-up. must call the toe doctor …
now, there was a toe doctor in uganda that built quite a toe practice - he carried a little cloth bag of toes around his neck - much like bobby dews in the bullpen. will eddie perez continue the tradition of toes in a bag? caution! the bag must not fall into the hands of wicky - “oh, great! pork rinds!”
now, investigative reporting curries favor with the wurlitzer selection committee. what can dob tell us about chipper’s toe health? will sore toes keep chipper out of the lineup in 2007? and how many toes are sore? just find out for us, dob. how many are sore? could just be a rumor. nothing certain until you tell us.
now, wouldn’t a nice ring have warmed up cold ringfinger? alas, unfinished business in ny. remember the ringfinger is tied to the heart. cold ringfinger, cold heart.
By crimedogrules
November 30, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
Nice KC, even if we did get Carl Crawford he couldn’t possibly live up to the hype of AJC blogs. Please let him rest in peace, people.
I want the eighth inning fixed that’s all (after Glavine of course). We don’t need Bonds, Ramirez or any offensive help.
It was the bullpen last year and it will be the bullpen this year if we don’t get it fixed. Everybody concentrate, if we had Wickman all year, the Braves would have gone to the playoffs.
Everybody say it with me: Bullpen, Bullpen, Bullpen.
By KC
November 30, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS
(AP) Lhp-Bruce Chen has reportedly agreed with the Los Angeles Angels on a 5 year, 62 million dollar deal. When asked on Thursday why the Angels would award Chen such a lucrative contract, a high ranking Angels official (of the record) stated “Hey, we already gave Gary Mathews Jr. 50 million, so why the hell not? We wanted to see if we could possibly cram our collective heads any further up our preverbal @sses they already were.”
Just kidding… but it’s almost gotten that ridiculous.
By KC
November 30, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this
crimedogrules:
I was just kidding about Crawford.
By crimedogrules
November 30, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this
KC I picked on the irony of the statement since I’m as sick as you of the Crawford talk. I’m with you. I thought your statement was funny.
By DonCoburleone
November 30, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this
Everybody needs to remember, more than half of Andruw Jones’ lost salary in 2008 will be absorbed by Hudson’s increase in pay from $6mil to 13.5mil. Plus, we will probably still have to sign Wickman or some other closer, so that $5mil will be swallowed up as well…
Let’s get Chipper to take another paycut!!!
By Lew
November 30, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this
KC-You’re redeemed for bringing up the unnamed player with that last post. Ain’t it the truth? Did they really give Chen that much? If so, the insanity has reached epic proportions. CrimeDogRules-Why are you so worried about the bullpen? It is already in much better shape than last year. Villarreal proved himself an excellent long reliever/spot starter. Paronto had an excellent year as did McBride after he recovered from his Spring Training injury. Yates, if you check his stats, had only one bad month and is also now further removed from his surgery and hopefully will get even better now that his stength is back. Cormier is functional, Boyer is coming back and we got Wicky, which answered a major portion of the problems. Why all the doom and gloom? One more competent set up guy and we’re good to go.
By Paul
November 30, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this
DOB, don’t forget about Mick Jones. Remember the last studio about with Jones (Cut the Crap was horrible. Joe needed Mick to write the songs they did. I wouldnt put Rock the Casbah in the top 50. London Calling is the best rock album in the last 30 years. Check out the new box set that came out that has all the Clash’s UK singles and original artwork. Shaun-can you really get equal value for Manny? I would rather have Manny. He’s too valuable to trade.
By J-MAN
November 30, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this
D.O.B. heres 2 of the most underrated bands from the Grunge-Metal early 90’s era , TOOL and Danzing, those dudes F’N Rocked. And I’m glad some people make mention of Alice in Chains.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this
CharlotteDave, you wrote: “It’s my understanding that since the Braves finished in the bottom half of Baseball, record wise, they wouldn’t lose their first round pick by signing a type A free agent like Glavine. That is, unless they changed the rule with the new labor agreement.”
Wrong. The rule was and remains the team signing him will give up a first-round pick and a sandwich pick between first and second rounds.
The key changes in this area in the new labor agreement: No compensation for what were fomerly known as Type C free agents, and compensation for Type B free agents is a sandwich pick between first and second rounds, instead of a first- or second-rounder.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this
Or rather, the team signing him gives up a first-rounder, and the team that lost him also gets a sandwich pick created between the first and second rounds. So the Braves in this case would actually give up one pick (the first rounder), but Mets would get two (the first rounder and a sandwich pick).
But that’s only if Mets offer arbitration.
By crimedogrules
November 30, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I hope so, it was supposed to be OK last year too. Maybe everybody knowing their role will solidify it more. But no gloom and doom here. I called the division a couple days ago. I’m totally “drinking the Kool-Aid” I am one of the few who is glad we didn’t pay stupid money for these free agents. Let the other teams waste their money. It leaves more free agents for us over the next few years. When everybody stares at their Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano type stupidity. (I’m totally adding JD Drew to that list once its finalized)
By MrMet
November 30, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this
David..this has gone far enough. Is Tom Glavine losing all his self-respect? Is there any measure to the word honesty ? to the thought of doing something in “Good Faith”. If this is the real Tom Glavine for HEAVENS SAKE keep him there in Atlanta. If this is his way of saying “thank you” to the Wilpons and the New York Met organization for their patience and understanding we don’t need him or his type in New York.
By Heath
November 30, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this
…is all the blogging overm music a stalling ploy because you have no USEFUL baseball information to pass along?….granted some of it is due to the tight-lipped nature of The Braves organization…but come on…the blog is now DOMINATED by info NOT related to baseball….tid bits here and there…ok, i understand…but the vast majority of a Braves blog should be about baseball…right???
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this
Elbravox, great find for you to get those Waits CDs at Tower during their going-out-of-biz sale. It’s AMAZING how cheap stuff is there right now, and even more amazing that they still have so much good product left. I see so much stuff that I’d buy for, what is it now 60 percent off, if I didn’t already have it.
I bought about 12 CDs couple days ago for 60 percent off, ended up being anywhere from 5-8 bucks apiece. Great stuff, all of it.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this
MrMet, what exactly do you want him to do, say, well, rather than wait until the weekend for the Braves to make an offer, I’ll go ahead and sign with the Mets? He told them he’d have an answer before the meetings. The meetings start Monday. Rest your big Mr. Met head.
By DonCoburleone
November 30, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this
I WANT SOME MOVES ALREADY!!!
By DCarp23
November 30, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
DOB and Charlotte Dave: According to Keith Law on ESPN.com, teams with one of the top 15 draft picks (and it looks to me like the Braves are 14th) do not give up their first round draft picks when signing a Type A free agent. Rather, they give up their second round draft pick and the “losing” team gets that pick along with a sandwich round pick.
Keith Law might certainly be mistaken with the new rules, but that is what he said on his blog.
By MrMet
November 30, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this
..He also told them he’d have an answer before Thansgiving Day too. Be honest here David, this stinks out loud. Tom has made his bed now let him sleep in it.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this
DCarp, then you and Charlotte Dave might be right. I’ll admit I hadn’t looked at it that closely because for one, I wasn’t thinking in terms of Braves being in bottom half record-wise…. Most places that go in-depth on the rule don’t include any mention of that part of it, either.
I’ll check and see if I can get confirmation. Thanks.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this
I am indeed WRONG about the compensation pick. Made a call and had the complicated rule explained to me, and yes, the Braves will give up a SECOND-ROUND pick and not first-rounder if they sign Glavine if Mets offer him arbitration by midnight tomorrow.
Guess I’m just not used to Braves being in bottom half of baseball, because I haven’t had to deal with that rule with their offseason moves in past. There were 16 teams _ SIXTEEN _ that finished with better records than Braves last season.
Mets would get the Braves’ second-round pick and a sandwich pick between first and second rounds.
This doesn’t change anything from what we’ve been discussing, however, since Braves still wouldn’t want to give up a second-round pick if they can avoid doing so.
Mets, by the way, already gave up their first-rounder for signing Moises Alou.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
November 30, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this
Billy, I read the SI article and the reporter says that the deal involving the Braves, Padres,and Red Sox won’t die meaning it has some life. At first glance I love the deal but then I got to thinking. One, I can’t really see the Padres absorbing Manny’s contract. But, I guess the Red Sox could offer to take some of the salary like they did with Renteria for the Braves. I also kind of see the Braves getting the short end of the stick. Yes, they would get Linebrink and Peavy but no bat to replace Andruw. Peavy, I believe, makes a little change so it could again limit payroll. I honestly don’t have a problem tradig Giles and Andruw but not in the same deal. The more I think about Hudson the more I think he should be traded. Hudson’s 2008 salary increase will absorb half of Andruw’s salary still leaving the team somewhat short on money. I think Hudson should be traded, then Glavine should be signed. Next offseason with Glavine gone and Andruw leaving the Braves would be looking at almost $22 mil being freed up. Glavine in the rotation this year would give Davies and/or Cormier another year to season and hopefully Lerew would also be ready and then the holes in the rotation could be filled with cheap but good pitchers and allow the Braves to make a couple of big free agent pickups.
Now, am I wrong in saying Matt Holiday is a free agent. If he is, the Braves could sign him if Andruw is traded. Of course, what sucks about all this is that apparently the free agent market is out of control and guys will demand more money than what they are really worth.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this
Oh, and CharlotteDave, my aplogies for my earlier reply. Thanks for bringing up the point, too. There are so many rules regarding draft picks, waivers, options, service time, etc, that I’ll freely admit I sometimes still have to refer to the rulebooks or ask someone who specializes in such matters for assistance or interpretation.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-11-01-player-rankings.htm
Better source than a blog I would think
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this
MrMet, I just wanted to say “rest your big MrMet head” in earlier post….
In fact, though, I don’t know how much you can blame Glavine here. He probably assumed Braves wouldn’t carry this out so long. But from Braves perspective, if you can avoid giving up a draft pick and know that Glavine’s still going to be there for same price Saturday, why not do it?
By J-MAN
November 30, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this
D.O.B. heres 2 of the most underrated bands from the Grunge-Metal early 90’s era , TOOL and Danzing, those dudes F’N Rocked. And I’m glad some people make mention of Alice in Chains.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this
Heath, what on earth could you possibly want us to discuss further about baseball until something actually HAPPENS? I don’t see a lot of questions or points being made by you. Or do you just dislike the music chatter. Because you know, you could just skip over the music stuff. Just a suggestion.
Heath, whaddya think about Giles and Hudson to Padres for Linebrink and Peavy? I don’t think we’ve hit on every possible angle of that fantasy trade quite enough, do you?
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this
disregaurd my last post….woops
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this
That’s good, Billy (TBFNB) _ except you gave us a link to a Nov. 2005 list of player rankings. And while that particular part of the rule (above the player rankings in that link) about Type-A free agent compensation didn’t change, other aspects of compensation did, including the elimination altogether of Type C free agents and compensation.
PAUL, you’re right about that last Clash album _ Cut the Crap stunk. I saw them on that tour, by the way, in K.C. Was p-‘d that I hadn’t seen them earlier. That was called the Mohawk Revenge tour, but they’d lost a lot of their fury. I thought Mick Jones’ first Big Audio Dynamite CD was actually quite good, but then they went too far with the dance orientation.
Strummer’s solo stuff with the Mescaleros was brilliant, blew away anything Mick Jones did since leaving Clash. Listen to those three Strummer solo CDs and you hear where the heart and soul of the Clash’s message came from.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this
Paul, have you heard Strummer’s “Redemption Song” duet with the Man in Black on Cash’s “Unearthed” box set? Wow. Spine-tingling.
By TN-MAN
November 30, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this
DOB.. Looks to be new info out about Glavine, any idea what it may be?
By Calvin
November 30, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this
Mr. O’Brien, Is there any indication that the Mets will off arbitration to Glavine?
By Calvin
November 30, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this
That should be offer..
By MrMet
November 30, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this
David…I understand that end as well as any person can.So do you. You know as you sit there the word “sting” smells everywhere. You know because of your last name what kind of honor your supposed to stand up to. Tom Glavine requested the extension from the Wilpons, it was a couple of weeks, then by Thanksgiving now this. I don’t blame John Scheurholz he’s doing what I would expect any GM to do. That is where I ask you, if I know that and you know that, LOL, do you really expect any intelligent baseball person to think that Tom Glavine doesn’t know that….LOL…
By CharlotteDave
November 30, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this
I’m glad to hear that my research turned out to be correct concerning the Brave’s first round draft pick: I didn’t want to lose that pick in what is considered an unusually strong draft. Of course, it also applies in reverse to the Danny Baez signing, but I guess the Braves will get the fifth pick in the second round from the Orioles. That is, unless the Orioles signed more than one type A free agent and then who knows? It does get pretty complicated.
By J-MAN
November 30, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this
I got to tell you D.O.B., this is perhaps the most boring time of the year because. All sports in the Georgia-Area sucks right now and the most exciting thing to do right now is hot-stove talk except our stove is a Freezer and not the kind with the ice dispencer but the kind with the 2-foot ice sycles and you have to give youself a hernia just to open, My point is JS and the management need to step up and make moves. And what seem the most sad is they don’t seem like there trying to get a lead-off hitter or getting more Bull-pen help all you hear is the Glavine talks that have been going on for what seem like an eternity. And we don’t hear any news about the ownership situiation this team seems like they don’t care to let the fans know anything and it must be rough for you because thats your job is to let us know whats going own and they don’t let nobody know nothing. Who do these guys think they are, the C.I.A.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this
TN-MAN wrote: “DOB.. Looks to be new info out about Glavine, any idea what it may be?”
Uh, could you possibly be more vague?
By journalist jimmy smith
November 30, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this
strummer? mescaleros? american league, right? how about a little dock of the bay? the big o. r.i.p. now, what is known of chad cadaver the minor leaguer?
By KC
November 30, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this
SI.com: “Tom Glavine hasn’t received a contract offer from the Atlanta Braves as he nears a decision on where he wants to play next season, a development that has increased the likelihood he will return to the New York Mets.”
DOB:
Do you agree with the italicized portion of the above statement? Or do you think Glavine and Clifton expected the Braves to wait until this weekend all along?
By Patrick
November 30, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What he means is that there is another Braves website reporting that there is a new development in the Glavine saga, but you have to pay $$$ in order to read it. So, I’m sure that TN-Man is wondering if you have the inside scoop
By KC
November 30, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this
LEW: I’m sure you already know this, but my Bruce Chen report was fictitious. Just felt like poking fun at some of the bone-head front offices fueling this year’s asinine player inflation.
By Stinky
November 30, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this
KC, Lew’s nearly as old as Jimmy Smith. He might have fallen asleep before he got to the disclaimer on your post.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this
I wonder if some of these 1st time bloggers even read the blog. The questio was answered already. Patrick…and thats kinda old news.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this
KC, I don’t agree with the italicized portion, and I know that Glavine and Clifton at least HOPED it would take this long. Don’t know if the expected it to, but I doubt it given that Glavine told mets he’d have an answer for them by now, at least intitially…
As for the new development, well, all I can tell you is the agent just told me a couple hours ago that he hadn’t talked to Braves since Tuesday, much less had negotiations.
Breaking news on a website two nights ago, new development now … if a tree falls in the forest, you know?
By Paul
November 30, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this
Redemption song was brilliant which is on my I-Pod. I never got a chance to the Clash live. Always held out hope that they were going to re-unite at Lollapalooza (which was always a rumor)but it never came to fruition. I know Strummer and Jones had a huge falling out. Strummer’s lyrics were tremendous. (with his father being a diplomat I believe) Straight to hell and White Man in Hammersmith Palais are my top 2.
By HugeFan
November 30, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this
I think maybe we should look at dealing McCann this year - his value is through the roof - we could probably get a stud pitcher in a straight up deal. And Salty will be coming up soon. We’ll give up some offense, but we had plenty of offense we need pitching. And Pena isn’t bad, I think he was above McCann on the prospect list at some point. I still think signing Bonds would be a coup. The Giants are ignoring him, he’ll be po’d and have a monster year.
By ernesto
November 30, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this
London Calling is genius.
When they kick at your front door, how you gonna come?
By Billy C
November 30, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this
No explaining the Nationals-Jim Bowden turning down so many offers for Soriano this summer. Now they get a draft pick and look what a mess their team is in. Will John and the Braves do the same this year and end up like the Nationals? All you fans that think the Braves will be in the playoffs this year with what they got now are dreaming.Every team is making deals getting better except the Braves. All you hear about the Braves is players wifes feeding street people and ticket price going up. If I was Glavine I’d go back to Mets where they want to win and have the money. His kids are only in school 3 and half months while he’s gone for 6 r 7 million what a joke. Come on Tom we want you back, the Braves can’t pay you and going down fast.
By Stinky
November 30, 2006 09:22 PM | Link to this
Huge Fan, Please say you’re sterile.
By Carolina Lady
November 30, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this
Stinky, I have to agree with you on that one! Lord have mercy!!!
By HugeFan
November 30, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this
Look, we’ve got no budget, so we have to do things that may seem a little crazy, but I bet if you thought about it you’d start going “that’s no so crazy.” 80 mil requires a little creativity.
By crimedogrules
November 30, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
Huge Fan, you are a dumbhead. Start watching basketball or hockey.
By J-MAN
November 30, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this
Billy C, finally someone that sees the truth the Braves are going down faster than George Michael in a L.A. restroom they are just sitting with their thumbs up their a$$ while everyone else is doing something to get better and like I said earlier they need to focus on a lead-off hitter first but they haven’t even bothered to look at that problem. Instead we have the 4th blog in a row about the Glavine saga and the thing about it is poor old D.O.B. gets called lazy or has people harrass him because their ain’t nothing new, well blame JS and management for that and HugeFan I hope you were kidding on that McCann trade talk because if you ain’t then I’d have to say without a shadow of doubt you are truly one dumb cracker and for gods sake, Think before you post.
By Lew
November 30, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this
Stinky-Yeah, I’m a doddering old fool, all right. I drool all over my artwork whenever I paint. That is, when I don’t just eat the paint or put the paintbrush in my ear. If not for Metamucil and Geritol, I’m sure I would have dropped dead of old age many years ago. It doesn’t take someone with my many years of senility to recognize you for the Whiny Little Jerk you are. DOB-I guess you better check to make sure I didn’t get any of my creamed spinach on The Man In Black portrait.
By Heath
November 30, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this
…i think something happened when i last tried to post so…
Dave, why so smug? I am not asking for you to retort some smart remark. As for why I do not make many comments…What is there to comment on? Seems that all you ever have to say is I spoke to js/bobby/clifton… etc…and they told me nothing…or something along those lines. You are indeed a beat writer for the Atlanta Braves not a Public Relations Manger for The Man In Black et al….right? If you are constantly getting “the cold shoulder” from the 2 or 3 guys you talk to in the Braves organization, is it possible you could try another angle?…say, talking to the prospective clubs that may or may not be interested in working with the Braves on a trade. I am not sure if you “can” do that or not…(honestly, I don’t know). But it would seem to me that calling JS every day and reporting that he had nothing to say epitomizes the phrase of “beating a dead horse”. I do realize, however, that you are not required maintain this public forum and I do want to thank you for the opportunity. My main request is just that if we are going to have an Atlanta Braves blog, could the main information within its contents be about….the Braves? Thanks for your time….
By Lew
November 30, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this
CrimeDogRules-You are assuming, Dude, that Huge Fan hasn’t already taken multiple pucks off of his unprotected head. Give up a Silver Slugger winner who is making the ML minimum for another 2 seasons? Whatever.
By DGD
November 30, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this
JJW is incredible—although he was more fun in concert before he went on the wagon. DOB—listen to “Morning Song for Sally” and “Little Bird.” His version of “Night Rider’s Lament” is also awesome……..
By journalist jimmy smith
November 30, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this
stinky, right? a rose by any other name …
and now, is stinky chronically unemployed or merely employed at a menial job?
By Lew
November 30, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this
Heath-Just what do you expect David to tell you that he already hasn’t? The whole situation all along has been where Glavine wants to play next year. There is not going to be a bidding war over him between the Mets and Braves. Glavine, his agent, both teams and everyone else in the world of baseball knows the Braves will not make an offer anywhere approaching that of the Mets. Glavine will tell his agent to make a deal with whichever team he chooses to play with next year. It’s not as if he doesn’t realize the Braves won’t want to give up draft choices or break their budget to sign him. If he wants to play in Atlanta, he will have to accept their offer. If not he will accept what the Mets offer. Period. There probably will be damn little negotiation. He knows this. His agent knows this and both teams know this. I’m not sure why you and everyone else can’t come to this realization, also. It’s all on Glavine.
By TheSouthernJackAss
November 30, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this
See ya around Heath, been nice knowin’ ya Heath, you done went and pulled on ol’ DOB’s superman’s cape!!!…now you will be ignored, lambasted, put down, made fun of, and on and on by the mighty dob and his crony!!!…Oh Heath, what are we goin’ to do???…
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this
J-MAN,
“like I said earlier they need to focus on a lead-off hitter first but they haven’t even bothered to look at that problem.”
Check this link out…..
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9
I dont see anything on offence being a problem as we had the 5th best runs scored in **Major League Baseball and yet still had a losing record what does that tell ya.
Think before you post
HugeFan,
“Look, we’ve got no budget, so we have to do things that may seem a little crazy, but I bet if you thought about it you’d start going “that’s no so crazy.” 80 mil requires a little creativity.”
Like trade a guy who handles the pitching staff quite well, competed for a batting title, and has a really cheap contract. Thats really a smart move for a budget conience team dont you agree. I mean there are a ton of players cheaper than Brian McCann that will complete for a batting title. LOL J-MAM Was right about you Think before you post
By Carolina Lady
November 30, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this
Heath, you better duck! :-)))
By TheWyzyrd
November 30, 2006 10:36 PM | Link to this
Heath, You are really out of line. Covering a professional sports beat is one of the most grueling occupations there is. If the Braves’ folks don’t want to give any information to DOB, its because they are working on something. Going around the block to some other exec is second-hand information and most of the times not accuarte. I used to be a sports writer here back when there were two papar. Been in DOB’s spot many times. Back in my day things were a little different. The beat writer used to hang with the team all the time. It was kinda like going to Vegas. What goes on there stays there. Same same for beats. Everybody in the sports department knew what was going on, but unforunatley, not the general public. DOB has a hard job and this blog stuff makes his days even longer. It takes a lot of energy and dedication to continue blogging in the middle of trying to break a story. It all sounds glamorous to most people, but, in reality its a job only a few can really do. The travel allone is enough to kill you! In and out of airports, hotels. Cold food, Missed flights. Missed deadlines. Grumpy and egotistical athletes. A baseball beat writer lives, breathes and eats ball - 24/7. If he dons’t, he’d gone. There’s plenty to who THINK they can do the job. I moved to Atlanta in 1971 and only Tim Tucker is in DOB’s league. And it almost killed him - literally. DOB spends all of his waking hours trying to find us new information on a topic that is very near to our hearts. Remember, this is his JOB. I really believe all the stuff about sweetea, BBQ, music and movies is an integral part of who DOB is. These things a important to him. Just like the Braves are important to you. I can see that the blog is a valuable outlet for DOB to communicate news, thought and feelings. He really makes this blog interactive. And that takes time. Time that he could be at Tower Records, the Tabernacle. Time listening the Tom Waits or Townes VanZant or Terry Cashman! He will give you the news when he has it and not before. He can’t make it happen. He’s being responsible and professional. You can’t any more of him than he asks of you or anyone else on this blog. As for this being strictly a Braves blog, that’s not the way this one operates. Go with it, you might just learn something about yourself. TheWyz
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this
Heath,
He’s a beat writer for the AJC and covers the Braves. It was a little confusing in your post. He’s been doing this a little longer than you, so I would imagine he has a better “angle” than you could even concieve. Next point, when you say “if we are going to have” I must point out that we dont have anything. The AJC does. DOB is one of the few journalist that responds to peoples quesitons on the site which is quite refreshing for someone of his trade to do. Finally, it a blog and by definition that means “to author an online diary or chronology of thoughts” (courtesy of www.Dictionary.com). You may ask what that means for this blog….it mean he can write what the hell he wants too and if you dont like it, dont read it.
How bout them apples?
I’ve always wanted to say that….
Dude seriously read what alot of these guys and and gals post and you might find yourself, one, enlighted, two, humored, and three, enteretained for a few minutes out of your busy schedule. I’m glad this blog is more than just baseball…..make this blog seem more of a water cooler. Again alot of funny people here jsut give them a chance and dont be so narrowed minded that baseball can only be baseball and nothing else.
Peace bro
By journalist jimmy smith
November 30, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this
oh, the humanity!
By Wayne
November 30, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this
“He’s going to make a decision, I would think, by tomorrow.” - Gregg Clifton
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/01/sports/baseball/01chass.htm
By Carolina Lady
November 30, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this
Wyzard, thank you for saying that! Well done! You beautifully summed up what most of us here realize but some aren’t aware of the depth and scope of his job. DOB’s dedication to his job and to US here on the blog is highly appreciated by the majority of the blogizens. Others are simply clueless and mostly beyond help. :-))
By EggNog
November 30, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this
HEY WYZ - How much did O’Bunion have to pay you for that speech?
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this
Im in a ranting mood…..
TheWyzyrd,
Covering a professional sports beat is one of the most grueling occupations there is.
I really disargee with that. Washing dishes, digging dishes, working in a glass factory…now thats grueling, dont overplay how tough his job is. I’m sure he one of the few people who loves his job. Not saying it isnt tough but it definatly not “grueling”.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this
Heath, thanks for your interest. I might try your suggestion about calling the other team’s GM.
As for the content of the blog, thanks for your interest in that regard, too. You might be right _ might be a little too much Man in Black. But probably not.
“The judge said five to ten-but I say double that again/I’m not working for the clampdown
“No man born with a living soul/Can be working for the clampdown
“Kick over the wall ‘cause government’s to fall/How can you refuse it?
“Let fury have the hour, anger can be power/D’you know that you can use it?”
“CLAMPDOWN” _ The Clash
By summerteeth
November 30, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this
DOB…
New Hobex just hit iTunes if you are interested…called Enlightened Soul.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this
Wyzyrd, Billy _ Thanks much for the support, but you’ll only encourage the type of BS we were fortunate enough to avoid for a few days of good blogging here. It’s really painful to see them come back onboard.
Besides, I don’t expect anyone outside the newspaper business to have any idea what goes into the job or believe that deadlines and travel are difficult. As Billy correctly pointed out in his last post, it’s not comparable to physically grueling work _ I can’t imagine how tough it’d be to be a roofer in the Georgia heat, for instance _ and it’s not as mentally demanding as, say, being a surgeon. Not even close.
And while I do think it’s a hell of a lot more difficult than your average 9-to-5 office job (I sold commodities, albeit for only one year), I wouldn’t trade it for a lot of easier, higher-paying jobs, not on your life. So I certainly have no complaints. How many people can say they love what they do, even if what they do breaks up marriages and contributes to ulcers? Well, I can. So it’s cool.
By Carolina Lady
November 30, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this
Stinky, be nice! (Please?)
Billy, how can you know unless you’ve done it yourself? It’s your perception that it’s not grueling but you don’t really know. Just some thoughts from another Tar Heel! :-))
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this
By the way, does anybody else think 30Rock and The Office are as good as any network sitcoms in, oh, 10 years? Tremendous stuff. Both on Thursdays now, along with the also-hilarious My Name is Earl and Scrubs. Great lineup.
Summerteeth, thanks much, man. I’ve got me a $25 Itunes gift card to use. I’ll check it out. By the way, finally been able to listen to those CDs more since the season ended. Good stuff man. Some of it very strong. Can’t believe they’ve not been more popular. I never even heard of them before you sent me those burned CDs.
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this
Billy, forgot to ask: Working in a glass factory? Probably is grueling, but I’ve never heard anyone use that as an example of grueling jobs. You must’ve done that one or known someone who did?
Speaking of grueling, you’re right _ any line job in a factory is absolutely tougher than what most of us online here probably do.
I worked several months in a meat packing plant in Kansas in the middle of summer during college, going from 105 degrees outside during 15-minute breaks to 30 degrees inside, and going for an hour or more at a time, not able to rest while that line is going and hundreds of people are hacking away at animal body parts, ready to jump on your a$% (verbally) if you slip up and the line has to stop….
Anyway, that’s grueling work. What I do now is just very stressful on deadline and tough on travel days catching 5 a.m. flights on two-hours sleep. And obviously tough on those with a wife and/or kids. Very tough in that regard.
OK, enough of that crap.
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 11:23 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady,
Touché
Im not a Tarheel by any streach of the imagination…Im a transplanted peach living in a crazy state called North Carolina.
By Tommy Glavine
November 30, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this
Hey gang, It’s me Tommy. I’m comming back to Atlanta. Schuerholz made a huge deal.
Padres Get Marcus Giles Juan Rivera Horacio Ramirez Tyler Yates Tim Hudson Brendan Donnelly Cash (Red Sox)
Red Sox Get Andruw Jones Scott Casssidy Kyle Davies
Angels Get Manny Ramirez Craig Hanson Jarrod Saltalmachia Chad Paronto
Braves Get Jake Peavy Scott Linebrink Mike Cameron Ervin Santana Scott Shields Termel Sledge
So this freed up payroll. I’m getting 9 mill a year for 2 years then a 10 mill option the 3rd year.
So our team is gonna look like this.
Rotation Tommy Glavine (me) John Smoltz (My Bud) Jake Peavy (Youngster) Ervin Santana (nasty) Mike Hampton (tough)
Bullpen Oscar Villarreal Chuck James Macay McBride Blaine Boyer Scott Shields Scott Linebrink
Bob Wickman
Lineup 2B Will Aybar SS Edgar Renteria 3B Chipper Jones C Brian McCann 1B Adam LaRoche RF Jeff Francoeur CF Mike Cameron LF Termel Sldege
Bench The usual suspects.
So guys… How do you like what old JS has done. Minaya can *$#%! Himself!!! 2007 WS Champs Atlanta Braves!!! Glad to be back gang!!!
By Billy (TBFNB)
November 30, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this
Working in a glass factory…
Little history of Billy
Dad retired out of the Airforce and with two kids and a wife had to get a job. So he went to work in a glass factory. When he had that job he would always come home reeking of sweat. Always dirty and what not. He also worked an odd shift so he woud not be able to see me or my brother that often (collided with school/bed/etc). Well fast forward to a few days ago here in NC visting with my folks looking for job oppurtunities i asked him about PPG galss factory that used to be down in central Georiga near Macon. My father told me about how bad it was and by description it was a pretty horrible place to work.
So a little longer explantion than you probably expected but I needed to brush up on my typing skills as I havent really used them in a few months.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 30, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this
journalism is hard on the toes. up the ramp to the pressbox. down the ramp to the field. up the ramp to the pressbox again. in ill-fitting shoes such activity begs for a bunion (and we all know a bunion can take a major leaguer right out of the lineup). while billy is right that doing journalism is not digging dishes, billy should be reminded that digging dishes is not doing journalism. this journalist believes there is honor in every worthy occupation. true, stinky probably works at a menial dead-end no-worth job - but stinky is special. now, carolina lady … is that really you? asking stinky to please be nice? oh, the humanity! stinky would not know nice if stinky was in a bowl of nice. the best thing to do when you have stinky in a bowl is -(who will answer this riddle?)
By Rosalynn
November 30, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this
Jimma Smith, is the ansa “flush”?
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
November 30, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this
DOB
I’ve only caught 30Rock twice, Not a big fan of the office. I have however, thoroughly enjoyed Studio 60 on the sunset strip. Not sure why. Matthew Perry is probably the most talented of all of the Friends actors/actresses. Just somthing funny/witty about that show.
I know what you mean about the meat packing. I didn’t work at a meat packing place, but I did work at an Ice Bagging company when I was 14 (the guy who owned it was my neigbor and my dad INSISTED I get a job). THAT JOB SUCKED. Nothin’ quite like spending your summer in a wharehouse baggin 20, 50 and 100 pound bags of ice, placing them on a palet (sp?) and shrink wrapping them. I didn’t even get to do the FUN part. Lifting the crates up with the forklift. I guess most places don’t let 14 year olds operate heavy machinery.
But none of that is as bad as carrying 300 pound amp racks down a flight of stairs (only thing worse is carrying them back up at 3:00 AM when you’re half in the tank! LOL!). That’s the problem of playing in bands in the uppermidwest. No big clubs with house PA. Gotta own a trailer, truck (or both) and EVERYTHING to put in it. I got a couple of buddies that play in the Minneapolis area a lot, that just laugh at how much we drive to play and how much gear we hump. I imagine it’s the same way in Atlanta. 10 places to play. Bring your stage gear and have at it. Must be rough.
Back to baseball, DOB, I didn’t feel like scrolling through to find the spot where you talked about the “deadline” (as insignificant as it might be with the possibility of a gentlemans handshake), but is that deadline at 12:00 tonight (as in 22 minutes from now), or tomorrow night (AM Saturday)?
By David O'Brien
November 30, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this
Billy, I figured that was the case _ dad worked in a glass factory. Tell you what, it makes you appreciate later in life what your dad did for you when you were a young punk, doesn’t it. My dad would come home with his back thrown out after working in the packing house unloading trucks when the union was on strike. Then he’d put on his umpire or referee gear and go out and do a high school football, basketball or baseball game. Did that year-round to make a few extra thousand so us kids could have decent clothes _ and a Honda XR75 one Christmas, the greatest Christmas in the history of the world….
Nathan, it’s tomorrow night, not 15 minutes from now.
Funny you said that about hauling your equipment. Buddy of mine is tight with Smith’s Olde Bar folks, and they had The Minus 5 there last year. Peter Buck was in tow, and told he wasn’t too pleased with having to haul equipment up those stairs they have in back…
But that’s just heresay. Don’t want Buck getting upset if he’s a Braves fan who reads the blog and it wasn’t true. Peter, love ya. REM forever. And please talk Bill Berry into at least doing another album with you guys, even if he doesn’t want to tour.
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
December 1, 2006 12:06 AM | Link to this
DOB
I thought I remembered it being tomorrow (I guess that give us 24 more hours to “twiddle our thumbs”!), but wasn’t sure. Thanks for the reply.
I know I asked you many months back about a band from the Atlanta area, 7 Sharp 9. Any band named after THE Hendrix chord is cool in my book! LOL!The guitar player/singer is from my neck of the woods (what EXACTLY does that “saying” mean, and WHERE did it come from?), I haven’t talked to him in a year or two, but it sounds like they are doing well down there. Not that you can believe “hype” that is posted on a website. People are suckers for ANYTHING unless they’ve witnessed the truth. But from what I gather, they are doing well.
By Tyrone Biggumms
December 1, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this
DOB said, “What on earth could you possibly want us to discuss further about baseball until something actually HAPPENS”?…Well, DOB has made 60+ comments on this one blog alone…without something actually HAPPENING!…and Dob said, “It’s really painful to see “them” come back onboard.”…So DOB really loves counting his “page hits” and the large number of comments associated with each “stale” blog must give dob an erection, but how dare any of “them” to disagree with dob, or maybe even discuss a topic not related to dob’s interests! That will get you rated as uncouth, uneducated, immoral, or “picked on in schoolyards” for goodness sake, and then you are forever branded as one of “them”…DOB, just like you tell bloggers to scroll on past your pet subjects, why not take your own advice and scroll on past “them” without making your condescending smartasz comments and childish attacks…get your panties all bunched up in your crack like a little girl, and for what…You’re an ego-maniac plain and simple, Hell!, the blog is infested with them, and you have such a tough and dangerous job, why you might even get athletes foot or the itch or something in one of those clubhouses, or choke on a seed, poor, poor, pitiful DOB…an ego-maniac for sure!…4 DAMN BLOGS IN A ROW WITH NOTHING TO REPORT—CAUSE IT’S ALL ABOUT DOB!…now release the hounds.
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 1, 2006 12:21 AM | Link to this
Food for thought…I got it from the ATL Braves Official Website. So connsider the source.
From what I can tell, if it really is Shanks, he appears to be a fan of the Braves…I guess thats ok but I can see where that could cloud someones objectivty, especially a journalist.
G’night….and enjoy.
Per Gotham baseball.com
This is what Shanks relayed to his readers today:
Okay, I’ve talked with several sources this afternoon. Here’s kind of a compilation of what I know…
Quote: The deadline for the Mets’ offering arbitration is, in fact, an issue. Unlike some teams that, for some stupid reason, sign player before the deadline to sign (Hello Baltimore!), the Braves do want to see if the Mets offer Glavine arbitration. The preference is to not give up draft picks.
Now this does not mean that if the Mets offer Glavine arbitration the Braves are not going to sign him. But they want to know what the Mets are going to do first.
Let me address all of this talk from Clifton about an offer. It was reiterated to me this afternoon that Glavine and Schuerholz (not sure about Clifton) have talked about money and each side knows what it’s going to take to get a contract done.
So why would Clifton say what he’s saying? Well, if Clifton was held out of the loop to any extent, he’s probably egotistical enough to tell other reporters that the Braves have not made a contract offer since it has not come through him. I can see him saying (even to himself), “Well if the contract proposal hasn’t come through me, it hasn’t been made.” But in fact, Glavine and Schuerholz have talked numbers and are aware of what it’s going to take to make a deal happen.
What does Clifton constitute as an offer? Does it mean a written proposal that comes from Schuerholz? Well if so, that might not have happened yet. It might not happen until Saturday. I think if a team and a player have swapped numbers and let each other know what it’s going to take, that would constitute an offer.
Here are two very important questions: 1. Do the Braves want Tom Glavine back? 2. Does Tom Glavine want to come back to the Braves?
The answer to both of those questions is YES.
Glavine knows the neighborhood of what the Mets are going to pay him, so also knowing what the Braves can afford to pay him (again in the $7-$8 mil neighborhood), he would have already gone back to the Mets IF money was that much of an issue.
Glavine’s family has made it clear to him that they want him back in Atlanta. So is he going to sign with the Mets and turn around and have to tell his family that he took the extra however-million-more dollars to go back to New York? How could he do that? If they truly want him home, and have told him so, how could he chose the Mets over the Braves?
Now there is no doubt in my mind, as I have stated since Tuesday night, that Clifton is a problem here. I think he is pressuring Glavine to go back to New York, and I think he’s slimy enough to get the union to put pressure on Glavine to not turn down the extra money.
But again, is Glavine going to allow that to happen with his wife and kids wanting him home? Glavine allowed Clifton to get involved last time and he was a Met. So that’s what’s concerning to this entire process.
So I still hold to my story that was reported on Tuesday night: The Braves and Glavine were close to agreeing to a deal. Has Clifton gotten involved to jeopardize that? Are the Braves and Glavine simply waiting until Saturday to see if the Mets offer him arbitration?
I was told again today by sources that they still believe Glavine is coming back to Atlanta. At this point, even with the Clifton comments, I would still be shocked if Glavine does not return to the Braves. Again, anything can happen. But it just looks like the main reason we haven’t seen a deal happen is Friday’s arbitration deadline. Why announce ANYTHING before that deadline?
Schuerholz would certainly not come out and say a thing until after Friday’s deadline (which is at midnight so expect a pajama party in the chatroom!). It in his best interest to not tip off the Mets at all for what he’s going to do. Does this include allowing the perception that he has not made an offer to continue? Perhaps. Why does Schuerholz care right now what’s being said as long as he and Glavine have, in fact, spoken and have an understanding?
Now, with that in mind, I was also told today that the Braves are in active trade talks with at least two American League teams about Tim Hudson. This is not a surprise, but there seems to be a chance that Hudson could be moved in the next couple of days. The Braves are not going to give Tim Hudson away, especially with the recent contracts given out that make Hudson’s deal seem somewhat tame, even if he’s a middle-of-the-rotation starter. But it looks like the Braves are seeing what Hudson could get back in a trade.
I do not know which teams are the two that are talking with the Braves right now, but we do know (and this was confirmed) that Texas and Baltimore both talked with Atlanta about Hudson at the GM meetings. So it may be those two teams again.
Here’s my take on this…
I think the Braves’ preference is to have Tom Glavine over Tim Hudson. They are worried about Hudson’s contract increasing in 2008. Remember, with Hudson’s signing bonus split out over the course of each of the four years on the deal, he will be paid $15.5 million in both 2008 and 2009. His base contract will be for $13 million in 2008 and 2009, but then add the $2.5 in each of the next two years and you get $15.5 million dollars. That’s high for ANY pitcher. If he were the old Tim Hudson, it might be one thing. But there’s no guarantee we’re going to have the old Tim Hudson and if he is mediocre again next year no one will take him for $31 million he’s owed in 08 and 09. And no, John Schuerholz does not eat salary, so this is the winter to trade Hudson AS LONG AS the Braves receive adequate payment in return. Again, they are not going to give Hudson away. So if he is traded in the next several days, expect a decent return. One source told me today that, “we are not going to give Tim Hudson away.”
Okay, so is trading Hudson tied to re-signing Glavine? Well, here’s my theory on this. Trading Hudson, in a small way, will be like Schuerholz saying, “we were wrong on Tim Hudson.” Well, he doesn’t like to do that very much. So I think if Hudson is traded in the next few days, they’ll use that as the excuse to bring Glavine back. They’ll say something like, “we really wanted to bring Tom Glavine back, but we had to make room in the budget to make it happen and that included trading Tim Hudson.” Fact is, the Braves are worried about Hudson’s ability to be a top tier pitcher. But with this situation at hand, trading him would at least look like they are doing it to bring Glavine back.
I think it’s going to be an active week. Again, I still believe the chances are Glavine will come back. If I had to bet on it, I’d bet on him coming back to Atlanta. And I really believe Hudson, Ramirez, and Giles could all be traded in the next week.
So we may know something Friday night on the Mets’ decision. Saturday could be interesting. But we should know on Glavine before Sunday afternoon. Most of the teams are getting to Orlando Sunday afternoon. The official meetings do not start until Monday, but most teams will get there Sunday and have internal meetings to plan a strategy. I’ll get there probably early Monday.
As always, I’ll let you know when and if I hear something else.
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 1, 2006 12:31 AM | Link to this
Tyrone Biggumms,
Yet you still post and read the blog enough to make a statement in which you think is true. The blog must intrest you in some peculiar way, which is funny as you dont appear to like the author (it’s like all the liberal who hate Bill O’reily but still watch the show and cry when he says something). It sounds as if your really upset at the clique like atmosphere. I can understand that….but a little hint for ya. You should’nt do something thats gonna get your blood presure up so much. At least not a trival blog. Some how stin….oh let me scroll back up…tyrone I dont think your gonna respond….no worries.
Peace,
and g’night
for real this time
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
December 1, 2006 12:32 AM | Link to this
So there I was the other day. Trolling through the Yankees blogs, the Michael Jackson Neverland Ranch blogs, and (just to get your goat DOB), the Terrell Owens blog. I was disgusted, bored and absolutely flabbergasted that they weren’t talking about Rosie O’Donnell on their blogs. WTF?! How dare they discuss whatever it is they want on them.
Oh, BTW. I wasn’t on those blogs, BECAUSE I HAVE NO INTEREST IN WHAT ANY OF THOSE PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY!!!!!! IF YOU DON’T LIKE/ENJOY/LOOK FORWARD TO/BECOME INVOLVED/READ/ any or ALL of the topics DOB (and some of us other sports/music/entertainment in general) fans have to talk about. Go upstairs, wake your mom up and ask her for a hug, cuz my friend NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO BE HERE!!!! In fact we’d just plain old prefer it if you left us alone to talk about some other crap other than how the Braves should trade for Carl Crawford. Maybe, as soon as JS figures out how to run the PS3 controller, he’ll make some of those fantasy trades, and you all can talk about that. It’s the end of November, 4 days from the Winter Meetings and THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN SPORTS TO TALK ABOUT RIGHT NOW. Unless you give a sh*t about the Bengals/Ravens score. ENNNNGSKHSDKLH! Wrong Answer! OR maybe you’d like to talk about Ben Wallace’s “headband”. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING!
Don’t let the cyberspace door hit you on your a$$ on the way out.
Nuh Night! Don’t let the bed bugs bite! Actually. I hope they eat your skin raw! LOL! But unless they’re flies. FAT CHANCE of that. Most bugs avoid SH*T!
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 1, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this
DOB,
just got back from the gillian welch show in athens…incredible. david rawlings is one of the best live guitarists i’ve ever seen, and he does it with so little — just him and a rhythm guitarist. they were incredibly nice and hospitable after the show, coming back out and signing autographs and taking pictures with whomever wanted some. really, one of the best shows i’ve seen in a very, very long time. and to top it off, they closed (with their second encore) with a really kick-a* version of “jackson.”
at one point, someone asked “where are you from?” gillian answered, “someone asked that at the last show, and i tried to answer but got really tired.” someone else in the crowd said, “you’re a yankee!” gillian said, “i’m not a yankee fan!” and david said, “but i do enjoy seeing them spend millions of dollars to lose every year!”
By Tyrone Biggumms
December 1, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this
Nathan and Billy — 2 narrow-minded pimple-faced drop outs — no blood pressure up here boys, and you 2 aszclowns just proved my point — Beavis and Butthead lives!…couple o’ tuff guys, cyberthugs…go to bed boys, you’ve got school tomorrow.
By ChickenGizzard
December 1, 2006 12:51 AM | Link to this
Tyrone - I bekieve that might have been the 2 homo boys that used to grace the blog.
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
December 1, 2006 01:01 AM | Link to this
Tyrone:
When somebody says to you, “Man, you’re UGLY!” and you come back with:
“Oh, YEAH!…..y y y y YOU’RE UGLY!” (you know, like me telling you to “go upstairs and get a hug from your mom”. or my saying “Nuh Night!” and you come back with - DRUM ROLL PLEASE………………”go to bed, you’ve got school tomorrow” WOW! Ladies and gentleman. We are in the presence of the GREAT DR. GREG BURNS.
That doesn’t really count. Not to mention that it shows that you have less brains than most 3 year olds.
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
December 1, 2006 01:07 AM | Link to this
Oh! Almost forgot. Tyrone, this one works for my six year old (me and my wife had him, when I was 7. It’s hard raising a kid and going to 5th grade, yu seez, i gots held bak twuice in the 3rd graid, datz why I’m still in 5th grade), him and ALL of his friends LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE it. It goes somthing like this:
I know you are, but what am I?
When every he’s in a “jam” he just drops that one on the other guy. Instant WINNER. You can’t top it! GUARANTEED victory. Or, like you did. You can just come back with what the other guy said to you. “Pete and Repeat” is just as popular as EVER!
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
December 1, 2006 01:07 AM | Link to this
Oh! Almost forgot. Tyrone, this one works for my six year old (me and my wife had him, when I was 7. It’s hard raising a kid and going to 5th grade, yu seez, i gots held bak twuice in the 3rd graid, datz why I’m still in 5th grade), him and ALL of his friends LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE it. It goes somthing like this:
I know you are, but what am I?
When every he’s in a “jam” he just drops that one on the other guy. Instant WINNER. You can’t top it! GUARANTEED victory. Or, like you did. You can just come back with what the other guy said to you. “Pete and Repeat” is just as popular as EVER!
By Tyrone Biggumms
December 1, 2006 01:12 AM | Link to this
You know Nathan the more you talk the dumber you appear - take your ritalin and go on to bed now.
By Tyrone Biggumms
December 1, 2006 01:17 AM | Link to this
Cats out of the bag now! - NATHAN is STINKY, slipped up didn’t you goat boy?
By Richard Cory
December 1, 2006 01:19 AM | Link to this
No, actually I’m Nathan.
By Lew
December 1, 2006 01:41 AM | Link to this
Stinky-A Whiny Little Jerk by any other name is still a Whiny Little Jerk.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 1, 2006 02:46 AM | Link to this
TheSouthernJackAss believes that the 2 following identical, off-the-wall statements made by Stinky and Nathan, nearly a week apart, and on different blogs, to be a little more than mere a coincidence, and that Stinky and Nathan are in fact one in the same person!
By Nathan, (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY) December 1, 2006 01:07 AM Oh, Almost forgot. Tyrone, this one works for my six year old (me and my wife had him, when I was 7. It’s hard raising a kid and going to 5th grade, yu seez, i gots held bak twuice in the third graid, datz why I’m still in the 5th grade), him and ALL of his friends LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE it. It goes something like this:
I know you are, but what am I?
By Stinky November 23, 2006 12:43 AM I know you are, but what am I?
STINKY/NATHAN…SAME A*******CLOWN!!!…
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 1, 2006 03:01 AM | Link to this
Nathan December 1, 2006 0107: AM
I know you are, but what am I?
Stinky November 23, 2006 12:43 AM
I know you are, but what am I?
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 1, 2006 03:14 AM | Link to this
And here they are in their exact form:
Nathan, (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY) December 1, 2006 01:07 AM
I know you are, but what am I?
Stinky November 23, 2006 12:43 AM
SJA, I know you are, but what am I?
STINKY/NATHAN…NATHAN/STINKY…Indeed!!!…
By Stinky
December 1, 2006 05:12 AM | Link to this
…Indeed!!!…
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 06:02 AM | Link to this
Wow. Just came downstairs to turn off the office lights after falling asleep in recliner. Sorry I missed the stimulating conversation…
Daybed, instead of waiting around for phone calls and making sure nothing happened on the Glavine front, I wish I would’ve taken in that Gillian Welch show in Athens last night. Tell me: Did she sing “Morphine”?
later
By MS
December 1, 2006 06:49 AM | Link to this
DOB, I am with you on “The Office!” Hands down the funniest show on TV right now in my book. I can’t count how many times I’ve watched all the episodes from seasons 1 & 2. It’s one of those rare shows where you can watch an episode over and over again and it just gets better each time.
30 Rock is entertaining too, just not nearly as consistent. It has some great moments, but alot of slow dull parts as well unfortunately.
Never been a big Earl or Scrubs fan.
As for Tommy, I’m thinking this deadline might not make too much of a difference, because if I were the Mets, I’d offer him arbitration. If they do and he accepts, he’ll get somewhere in the neighborhood of 13-15 mil, maybe? It sounds like the Mets are likely going to offer him 11-12 mil/year in a 2 year deal, PLUS a no-trade clause. By offering arbitration, they’d be risking an extra 2-3 mil but they’d also be alot safer, avoiding a 2+ year deal and not having to include a no trade clause. I would think Tommy would probably rather take the 2 year deal with no trade protection than a slightly higher annual salaried one year deal at his age. (although he’s going to get 10-5 rights after 2007 if he’s with the Mets, right? So the no trade wouldnt be as big of a deal with the Mets anyways. Wow, can you believe Tom Glavine might have 10-5 rights with another team? How weird is that? Man how time flies.)
So, DOB, does any of that make sense, or am I just talking out of my a$$?
By lanceinFL
December 1, 2006 06:53 AM | Link to this
DOB- bands of the day Bad Religion and TSOL…stuff for us fogies!
JS is not going to get a good deal done. I think GM’s around the league have learned you dont trade with him, especially if he has offered prospects, usually they get burned!
By Heath
December 1, 2006 08:03 AM | Link to this
DOB: I REALLY am interested in this blog. Although I have made VERY FEW comments on here, I actually come here every day to check for breaking news….and water cooler “chit chat”.
The main reason I started coming here is because I used to travel between 85%-90% of my year (out of 365 days, not the standard 280 working days). My travels took me all around the world…Poland, Romania, Switzerland…and the list goes on. I was an Electronic Engineer for fiber-optic and infrared-controlled vision inspection systems. I know exactly what it is like to be away from home all the time and sitting in a hotel all by myself…eating god knows what. I was not trying to attack you… I just am looking for Braves info, that is all. As for the rest of you, tone must be hard to interpret while reading blogs….
By Shaun
December 1, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this
lanceinFL,
Bad Religion—one of my favorites. You have to appreciate a band that requires you to have a thesaurus to understand their lyrics. What other band uses the words ‘lascivious’ and ‘rectilinear’ in one of their songs?
By Shaun
December 1, 2006 08:26 AM | Link to this
Shaun-can you really get equal value for Manny? I would rather have Manny. He’s too valuable to trade.
You probably can’t get equal value in one player. The Sox would definitely have to get more than one player. Also, the value of those players may not show up for a few years—they will likely get younger players. And even if they don’t get exactly equal value, it’s probably worth trading him for close to equal value because it will give them much more flexibility. They get probably two or three good players for Ramirez plus a lot of money they can use on other pieces.
By Lew
December 1, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this
Shaun-Up here in the Great White North (not really, it was 67 yesterday), Curt Schilling went on record yesterday saying Manny definitely wanted to be traded (he said he actually talked to him about it) and that a trade would be a good deal for all concerned. CS is afraid when Manny gets disaffected later in the season that he will just quit playing (last seasons supposed knee problem was sited). I think the guy is just a drag on team morale and Boston, being close to a 5 year, $70 million deal with JD Drew, might just dump Manny for what they can get and eat a portion of his salary. Not sure I’d want his disruption in Atlanta-not that JS would pay that much for him anyway.
By Rodger
December 1, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
I think we need to go ahead and sign Tommy G as assitant GM-his roster moves are brilliant!
By Stinky
December 1, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
The most happy marriage I can imagine to myself would be the union of a deaf man to a blind woman.
Sammy T. Coleridge
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 1, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
unfortunately no “my morphine.” but there was…
goin’ down the road feelin’ bad orphan girl elvis presley blues rock of ages knuckleball catcher (don’t know if that’s the title) i want to sing that rock n’ roll bottom of the sea (again, not sure of title) wrecking ball red clay halo
(break)
my first lover no one knows my name one little song (gillian solo) revelator miss ohio you get sad, you get high i’m not afraid to die caleb meyer
encore: everything is free i’ll fly away
encore: jackson
i think “revelator” was the highlight for me. i just remember really being in awe of what was going on and just stunned at everything during that song. not to say that everything else wasn’t great, because it was all just amazing.
By ernesto
December 1, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this
wow, that little exchange b/w Stink and himself w/all his diff’t psuedonyms (12:30 to 2) was a little scary huh? Makes you glad this thing is virtual.
By Greg in TN
December 1, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
Morning folks…
USA Today and CNN/SI’s websites are both reporting that Bud Selig will step down when his current contract is up in three years.
While the last two negotiations with the players union has been remarkably civil, it’s hard for me to get out of my mind how he and several other owners ran Fay Vincent off in 1992. Add to that, the cancellation of the remainder of the 1994 season, including the playoffs and World Series.
I won’t dump on the guy for the Milwaukee All-Star game tie in 2002. A lot of that was out of his control, however it was very ironic that all of this happened in his hometown.
I think a lot of the problems in the sport today (especially the performance enhancement issues) are due in part to Selig having his head in the sand and refusing to take any kind of stand, which is unfortunately his MO. Instead of a commissioner that is decisive and acts on the integrity of the game and looks to protect it which were attributes of past commissioners (Landis, Chandler, Kuhn, Giamatti, Vincent and others), we got little more than an administrator who waited too long to build ‘consensus’.
Anyway, here’s hoping that his replacement is truely impartial, so that the office of the commissioner can return to what it once was.
By KC
December 1, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
While I’m glad there’s no threat of a strike in the near future, I think it’s terrible that Selig and the owners agreed on a new labor agreement that is a perpetuation of the asinine payroll disparity in baseball. Ridiculous! Two words: SALARY CAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By KC
December 1, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this
3 years 24.5 million (by the Phillies)… FOR ADAM EATON???!!!!!! Are you F’in kidding me???????
By Richard Cory
December 1, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
To set the record straight. An imposter using my name at 1:19 a.m., claimed that I am “stinky”. Well first off, I’m never on the blog at that hour. Secondly, I stated that I have never, nor would ever, attack, slander, or seek to verbally abuse anyone as does “stinky”. I may have been called “stinky” at some point in my life, but it would have been in a different context. Stinky once blogged to me, that if I didn’t leave soon “you’ll be late for your shift at McDonald’s”. The fool doesn’t know, but, Elvis and I both work at Burger King. SJA, Stinky, et al., I see you’re still ‘pitching’ your ‘fit’, in the toy isle. No matter we’ll get by.
By Rodger
December 1, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
Three more words, KC:
Never Gonna Happen!
The union, for whatever reason, has been allowed to become way more powerful than the owners. And while in hockey, there was the potential that there would be no league to draw outrageous salaries, MLB has shown repeatedly that won’t be the case.
By Shaun
December 1, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
Lew,
I don’t know if Manny would quit on the team or anything. I think it’s mostly a money move—he makes a lot of money, he’s getting older and he’s not a good defensive player. Sure Manny’s a unique personality and sometimes seems disinterested, but that’s never stopped him from being productive before. Why should Boston expect it to stop him now?
I don’t think it has much to do with team morale, to tell you the truth. He’s been in Boston, what, six seasons and he hasn’t really affected team morale (even through trade rumors) up to this point.
I think Boston sees an opportunity to trade him to a team that has/is going to miss out on Soriano, Carlos Lee or some other big free agent bat.
I agree, I wouldn’t want him in a Braves uniform because he’ll still be more expensive than other options even with Boston eating some of his contract.
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 1, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
DOB - let me try that again…
goin’ down the road feelin’ bad / orphan girl / elvis presley blues / rock of ages / knuckleball catcher (don’t know if that’s the title) / i want to sing that rock n’ roll / bottom of the sea (again, not sure of title) / wrecking ball / red clay halo
(break)
my first lover / no one knows my name / one little song (gillian solo) / revelator / miss ohio / to be young (is to be sad, is to be high) (the ryan adams/david rawlings song from “old school”) / i’m not afraid to die / caleb meyer
encore: everything is free / i’ll fly away
encore: jackson
By Shaun
December 1, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this
KC,
You think that’s crazy, wait for Schmidt and Zito. I’m guess at least 3 years/$40 million.
By Billy C
December 1, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
No news is good news on Glavine. Welcome back to the Mets Tommy, we love you in NY.
By Richard Cory
December 1, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this
My bad. He actually said that I was Nathan. Then he said that Nathan was Stinky. So by inference, I guess he said I was “Stinky”. He’s also said that journalist jimmy smith and I were one and the same. I am neither. Both Nathan and journalist jimmy are fine bloggers. To be construed as either one is no insult. However to ever be linked with Stinky or SJA is a call to arms. May the force be with you.
By Lew
December 1, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
Stinky-A sunless sea wouldn’t bother a blind person, would it?
By summerteeth
December 1, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Back in the 90’s is one of those CD’s that you can’t take out of rotation. I always go back to it. Just now listening to the new one…sounds pretty good too. Glad you like them and yeah, they should be huge, but the state of music today is killing way too many artists.
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 1, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
Tyrone Biggumms,
Ah screw that we all know it you Stinky.
Stinky…..your my hero. You’ve proven to be a bigger man/adult than me.
I mean this comment…
“Nathan and Billy — 2 narrow-minded — pimple-faced drop outs no blood pressure up here boys, and you 2 aszclowns just proved my point — Beavis and Butthead lives!…couple o’ tuff guys, cyberthugs…go to bed boys, you’ve got school tomorrow.”
…it really got me man. One thing I dont understand though is what point you were trying to prove? Is it that your more mature than me? Come to think of it, your right, you are more mature than I ever will be. In closing, I really hope you find a blog that doesnt upset you to the point where you feel you have to protect your man hood or maturity level for that matter.
You can reply to this with your 7th grade insults however, you can bet I will not reply as I have lowered my self enough by typing this response to your, what I consider, ignorant and juvenile post.
Oh yeah when ever you wanna compare education and experince let me know….and I’ll show you what kind of pimple-faced drop your are.
By Shaun
December 1, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
KC and Rodger,
The players and owners actually agreed on the new labor agreement. A salary cap may help with revenue disparity but probably wouldn’t help competitive balance much, even combined with a salary minimum. Some teams are always going to spend wisely and some teams are going to spend poorly.
Also, under the old system, where there was no luxury tax (basically a very soft salary cap) and no penalties on spending, teams that had never won actually won and there was plenty of competitive balance.
I don’t deny the player’s greed, but a salary cap just protects the owners from themselves.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=betweenthenumbers/salarycap/060405
I think baseball’s best solution is a better revenue distribution system. A sports league is different from other businesses and the Yankees couldn’t survive without being part of the league. The revenue that they earn should be distributed pretty evenly throughout baseball. I think then the owners should be forced to spend at least a certain percentage of that. I don’t know if the owners would ever agree to that.
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 1, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/12/01/scoop.friday/1.html
says the mets agreed not to offer arbitration to Glavine.
hmmmmm….
By Bruce
December 1, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
Dave,
Last week I speculated in your Dissecting Trade Rumors blog that Mr. Schuerholz could bypass his no-trade clause policy by giving one to Tom Glavine because Andruw, Chipper and Smoltz already had their no-trade clause via 10-5 protection and because of Glavine’s longer tenure with the Braves.
You promptly replied, “Bruce, I don’t see any way Schuerholz drops his policy against no-trade clauses, certainly not for a 40-year-old who’d be coming back for probably one season, even if said 40-year-old has made huge contributions to the organization. So have a few others who didn’t get them (no-trade clauses)” link“>http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2006/11/20/dissecting_trad.html#comment-829238)
That night (Friday Nov 24) I spotted Mr. Schuerholz’s Built To Win in Tower Books. After reading it cover to cover last weekend, I had an even greater appreciation of the conviction of your response and Mr. Schuerholz’s conviction to not offer them. For example, his insistence that Gary Sheffield drop his no-trade clause before accepting that contract. I also thoroughly enjoyed reading the book. So even with this background, I speculate again, though possibly lamely, but hopefully creatively.
Here is a way to give Glavine a no-trade clause
To use Mr. Schuerholz’s words, he offers a no-trade clause to Glavine by including an evergreen clause which Glavine must meet for the no-trade clause to vest. It could be timed to the mid season trading deadline or to the end of season or both. It could be keyed to innings pitched like he used in the Hudson deal formulation (page 83).
If Glavine “must” have a no-trade clause, maybe this flavor would work for both parties.
The drama of the last two weeks has been awesome. It’s better than any who dunnit because we care so much about the outcome, are so curious about the process and realize that the timing of the endpoint is somewhat open even though we might believe there is a true deadline with several intermediate critical points when news might pop. Mystery or drama books or movies have an endpoint that we can anticipate but this is much better. To be able to be “involved” by speculating or reading speculation on as frequent a basis as our time or energy or curiosity permit is a gift.
The “I told you so” or “who would have believed it” comments that we will get to read in the coming days can not top this drama and mystery and entertainment. Mr. O’Brien has been a maestro on this performance.
Tthank you for making this drama possible and so much fun.
By Stinky
December 1, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this
A sunless sea wouldn’t bother a blind person, would it?
Especially at night.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 1, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
journalist returns to find stinky/sda making friends with others on this blog. stinky muist be feeling the love today. ernesto is right - that dialogue back and forth stinky to stinky was scary. coming at us with a lot of names in this blog - but readily identifiable by most. stringing it out for everybody.
By GeneralManagerWantToBe
December 1, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this
Just a thought, but while I would love to have Tom Glavine back with the Braves, is it possible that the Mets would be better without him? If we take Glavine, so the Mets go and get Willis or Zito, won’t the Mets be better for longer than if they have (an aging) Glavine for the next two years? Should the Braves consider this when they are making their decision?
By Richard Cory
December 1, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
**Salute to Stinky** *There once was a 'digit' called stinky.Twice removed from the one, we call ‘pinky’. When thrust in the air, and given ‘this stare’, It sums up my feelings succinctly.
By rammerjammer
December 1, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
Bruce,
Great post! May I add, what about the drama of guessing which media person or outlet will claim to have broken the story first?
Maybe Shanks outran his headlights or maybe he scooped everyone but no one will verify it.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
MS, regarding your thoughts on Glavine and arbitration: Some makes sense, but if they offer arbitration I think he’d reject it and just negotiate a new deal with the Mets, not accept arbitration-set salary (he’d do it as a favor to them or whatever, maybe by agreement already in place).
By the way, how ‘bout “Prison Mike” in last night’s Office. Hilarious. Painfully awkward and hilarious.
By Lew
December 1, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
GMWannabe-You never put your team together because of what your competitors are doing. Never. You put together the best team you can field. That’s all. You just can’t counter everything anyone else does. For one thing, we don’t have the financial resources that the Mets (or even the Phillies) do. It would drive you insane building a team that way. JS knows what pieces we need to win. If we sign Glavine, we will have a better rotation than the Mets no matter what they do. They will not be able to get more than one top line pitcher-there’s just too much competition for them from teams with as much money as the Mets. Maybe Zito or Schmidt-one but certainly not both and maybe neither. The Marlins would be absolute fools to give up Dontrelle. Check out SI.COM for an article by Tom Verducci about second year pitchers and their probable decline. The Marlins will need Willis and they already have prospects.
By Lew
December 1, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this
Billy-Don’t worry too much about Stinky. He/she’s just like a child that is so tired they won’t go to sleep. You let them scream themselves out and they are fine in the morning. With Stinky, you just let him/her (this is a very sexually conflicted individual) frolic in the blog aisles, monologuing with itself for four or five hours in the middle of the night, and then in the morning it is a much happier and conciliatory Stinky.
By braves fan
December 1, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I thought the deadline to offer arbitration to free agents (and thus gain the rights to draft picks if the free agent signs elsewhere) was Dec 1. And the winter meetings begin Dec 4. I’m also not a math genius, in addition to not being Sherlock Holmes, but that sounds like two days to make an offer to Glavine and negotiate a salary. Glavine already knows he wants to come home, and the Braves know what they can pay him if he does, so it’s not like it will be some drawn out negotiation.
As for the premise about having to make trades before signing Glavine, you have a point. But it’s a dumb one. Not that you’re dumb, but it would suck if John Schuerholz is THAT hamstrung by his payroll that he would get stuck like that. If I’m GM, I’d make what deals I can as I go along, then try to make any necessary trimming of the payroll. What are they going to do, fire him? Time Warner is trying to make a sale. Do you think Liberty Media would be very happy if TW fired John S. over a couple million? Or are those couple of million more important than the intellectual capital between John’s ears? If worse comes to worse, he can dump Giles for nothing, just like he did Millwood. My point is, $80 million is not going to cut it as a budget payroll every year. With revenue sharing, teams that used to be non-factors in the free agent and trade markets are beginning to wake up from a long slumber and this rigid, nonsensical position on the Braves payroll is going to drive them to the bottom of the national league in a heartbeat.
By Stinky
December 1, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this
Jimmy, You know it was you and O’Brain doing that stuff last night. Very funny. Ha Ha. Stop piling on.
By MS
December 1, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
Last night’s Office was great. Really rebounded from the previous episode (The Merger) which I thought underachieved.
I’m about to catch a flight to DC to see the Birds take on the ‘Skins so I’m done for the day. Hopefully when I logon this weekend we’ll know where Glavine will pitch next year (hopefully here)! Have a good weekend everyone.
By Matthew
December 1, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this
braves fan:
The problem is that we are but a corporate subsidiary of TW, locked in a chess match with Liberty Mdeia to figure out how to make people more rich than they already are, while using the Braves as a mere pawn in their overall plan.
The Braves need a REAL owner, not a corporate scumbag.
Wait, I’d better stop before I tell you what I really feel.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this
Never got into TSOL, but really like a few of Bad Religion’s CDs (“The Empire Strikes First,” “Stranger Than Fiction,” etc). Speaking of rockin’ old bands, did you ever hear Gun Club’s “Fire of Love”? Awesome CD.
Two other hard-edged, non-commercial bands that all good rockers should have in their collections: Mission of Burma and Buzzcocks.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this
Heath, thanks for the note. You know exactly what travel can become, huh? That part of a job can get brutal, no two ways about it. Especially when your wife’s sitting at home with a sick pet (or child, I know would be far worse) or a broken toilet and you’re sitting in some hotel room, not coming home for two more cities and six more days….
Didn’t mean to be quite as sarcastic (or smug, as you put it, accurately), but it was late and I read into your e-mail something that apparently wasn’t there. Peace, dude. No worries, as our man in Hawaii might say.)
(Speaking of, what happened to our blogger from Hawaii? Have we heard from him lately?)
By Lew
December 1, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this
BravesFan-Selling a baseball team is like buying a house. When your mortgage is being processed, they tell you not to make major credit purchases. I’m sure JS is totally hand tied to spend more money (at least as much as you’re talking about. Check my post from 10:21 last night. I think I summed up the Glavine situation pretty well. At least no one has disputed what I posted.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
Rodger, you’re exactly right no KC’s suggestion of salary cap. Ain’t going to happen, not in this generation at least, and you cited the reason. Union simply too powerful to let it happen, and baseball doing too well to have the shutdown that would be required to make it happen.
Besides, what part of the Yankees’ 1.2 billion spent in payroll and luxury taxes with NO WORLD SERIES TITLES in past six years do you (KC) not understand? Look at the teams that have been winning year after year recently, and others getting into postseason. Mostly upper-middle class (payroll-wise) teams that spent wisely, not huge payrolls that lavished ridiculous contracts on free agents.
By KC
December 1, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this
“Three more words, KC: Never Gonna Happen!”
Rodger, I wouldn’t be so quick to say that. I mean a salary cap might happen if… I mean, it’s not impossible to imagine… Aw-hell, who am I kidding?! I hate it that you’re right.
By Shaun
December 1, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
O’Brien,
Bad Religion’s best CD is Against the Grain. The first CD since Mr. Brett’s return to the band—The Process of Belief—is a good one, too.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
Braves fan _ I agree, it’d be suspect reasoning to not sign Glavine if you really wanted to sign him, just because you weren’t able to pull off a trade before you made him the offer. But they are NOT going to “just dump” Giles _ too valuable and young, way too valuable, to just dump. And they’re not going to just dump Hudson, either. You know Schuerholz _ every move, to his credit, is done with exhaustive effort and research and by turning every stone until he gets the best deal. Sometimes, it’s worked again him because the “best deal” has moved on to another target. But by and large, it’s worked for him.
You’re also right about the $80 mill payroll _ it can’t stay there forever, and I don’t think it will stay there beyond the 2007 season. It’ll climb, though I don’t know by how much (no one does, I’d suggest).
And you’re right once more about how the Glavine “negotiations” won’t take long. I give Shanks credit where credit is due on this _ he very well could be right about Schuerholz possibly haven spoken to Glavine without going through Clifton, especially given the frosty relationshp between the GM and the agent. But Glavine, being a bottom-line astute businessman and longtime union figure, will ultimately get his agent involved before this is done.
That’s why it was too early to say Tuesday that a deal was about to be finalize, in my opinion. I mean, it’s three days later and it’s not finalized. And I still think there’s a chance he’ll go back to the Mets. So I’m not going to go with one source within the Braves’ front office because I think without balancing it by talking to both sides, you really can’t get a good indication of where things stand.
It’s not going to surprise me either way that Tom goes, it really isn’t.
By KC
December 1, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
DOB
What part of the Yankees buying their way into the playoffs every year don’t you understand?
It’s hard to win a World Series. You cannot buy one. However, 200 million will reasonably assure you of a playoff berth. Aren’t there many other teams that would love to have the resources necessary to buy their way into the opportunity to win a World Series?
But as I stated above… of course it won’t happen. I’m just saying that it should.
By KC
December 1, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
A team that spends 80 million wisely can beat a team that spends 100-120 million that spends frivolously. However, except for the (very) occasional miracle, a team with a 50 million dollar payroll isn’t going to beat a team with a 200 million dollar payroll.
Tell me I’m wrong.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
KC, then I guess the Marlins in 2003 were a miracle. Fine. And the Twins and A’s reach the playoffs more often that teams that spend twice what they do. Minor miracles.
Whatever you want to call them, it’s reality. There won’t be a salary cap, so why bother? I think people might be more up in arms if the Yankees ever actually won while spending twice what other high-payrolled teams spend. But they haven’t. And won’t next year.
By ernesto
December 1, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
So if JD Drew signs that 15 mil a year contract with the Sox won’t he be the highest paid player in baseball? At least on a per game basis? What does 15 mil divided by 70 games a year come to anyway?
By KC
December 1, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
I certainly don’t argue with Shaun’s point about wise spending vs. unwise spending. There are two factors in building a winning team: Having the resources you need (and that’s relative to an extent), and having a GM with the skill to make the most of those resources, whatever they may be. John Shuerholz is a perfect case study for this.
Up until a few years ago, the Braves had one of top 5 or so payrolls in baseball every season. That in and of itself wasn’t enough to put the Braves in the playoffs, and in a position to compete for a ring every year. There are a number of teams that had similar or greater resources that Atlanta all the while, but weren’t able to win any division titles, much less 14. It was the fact that the Braves were both fairly deep pocketed and wise in their spending practices that allowed Atlanta to keep that streak going so long. Had Atlanta boasted only a middle-of-the-pack payroll all these years, the streak would have ended long before now. Had Atlanta had the money all along, but a different GM, I believe the streak would have ended long ago.
It’s interesting to note that even when Atlanta had the money to be the highest bidder for a major free agent… can you one remember a single instance in which they were? The Braves always made a fair offer to the players they coveted, but they never really got into any pi*sing contests with other suitors. It seems like nearly every significant free agent we ever signed got a slightly higher offer somewhere else.
I think there are two reasons for JS consistently stopping short of being the highest bidder: First, it has helped the Braves avoid overspending and allowed them to make the very most of their resources. Second, in order for a player to be a Brave, he has to want to be a Brave. If a player signs with you solely for the money, he’ll leave just as quickly when his contract expires if you’re not prepared to gun it out with other big market bidders. I think it fits right into Atlanta’s MO to zone in on players who show a sincere interest in playing here, rather than those who are simply chasing the jack.
As long as we’ve got Shuerholz, Cox, and at least 80 million to spend… I think the Braves will do just fine.
By rammerjammer
December 1, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
DOB,
How will you find out about Glavine’s decision? Do you expect a call from his agent? Maybe JS? An “inside” source? Or will they announce it at a news conference?
Just curious how these things work. Thanks.
By KC
December 1, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this
DOB:
I never said that teams with limited teams can’t play in October. That’s obviously not true. I am simply saying that the Yankees buy their way into the playoffs every year while other organizations have to scratch and claw their way to the top. Until the D-Rays unseat the Yankees and the Red Sox… my point stands.
By KC
December 1, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
CORRECTION: Meant to say… “teams with limited means”
By Rodger
December 1, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this
ernesto, thats below the belt! I’m sure he will play at least 100 games.
By KC
December 1, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
DOB:
One more thing: None of the teams you mentioned played in the same division as a 200 million dollar team… and that was my point. The Yankees buy the division every year.
By ernesto
December 1, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
KC, fair enough point that it’s easier to win the race when you can afford to just go out and buy a stud team, but don’t forget this year’s World Series pitted the 89 million dollar Cards against the 82 million dollar Tigers. My point is dollars are important, but budget (or lack thereof) isn’t the only thing.
By KC
December 1, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
DOB:
No more arguing about baseball economics… give us some Tom Glavine news!!!! Come on, I’m sick of waiting! I don’t care if you have to make something up… just tell us something new! lol
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this
Rammerjammer, there is no set MO for how these things work, as far as work leaking out or being announced. You hope you get it before it’s announced, but with Braves sometimes it’s very difficult.
By rammerjammer
December 1, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
KC,
I think the Mets, with Minaya and Randolph, are trying to build a similar mindset in New York. Omar, as you know, has been particularly vocal about admiring the Braves’ organization.
One shudders to think at the possibilities available to a team with smart leadership AND deep pockets. Yikes.
By rammerjammer
December 1, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this
DOB,
In other words, the Braves don’t leak…but other teams do.
I see also where the ChiSox resigned LF Podsednik for one year at $2.9 million. Very cheap when compared to the market, even if he did have a down year. He might’ve been a good alternative for our LF/leadoff situation.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 1, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
is brain drain affecting the organization’s ability to compete in the marketplace? the braves organization has lost some key players/components. are they considered a weaker front office and scouting organization now? and what is the news with the pandas? will the pandas re-sign with zooatlanta? will the pandas take a pay-cut to stay? will chipper take another pay cut to sign his ol’ buddy? if chipper takes a pay cut will tommy pay greens fees in the spring? much to consider.
By ernesto
December 1, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
This current market has teams binge spending on marginal guys, and I think the hangover is going to be ugly. I’m almost glad the Braves are forced to sit on their wallet this year. By the way, from a post long ago about unique words in rock songs, who could forget LIVE working the word “placenta” into “Lightening Strikes”, but my all-time faves was Zevon’s “…the cattle all have brucellosis, we’ll get throught somehow…”
By The Stranger
December 1, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
Daybed, DOB -
I first saw Gillian Welch & David Rawlings about nine years ago, not long after the release of “Revival.” A very small venue and the most enlightening show I’ve ever seen. As good as Gillian was, I will never forget Rawlings on the guitar - a master at a very young age. Check him out on the Old Crow Medicine Show if you haven’t already. On a similar note, I humbly submit for the listening pleasure of the Man in Black Blog, the pride of British Columbia: The Be Good Tanyas. “Chinatown” was recorded in pre-Katrina New Orleans with the help of Olu Dara and many other local musicians, which gives most of the folksy, bluegrassy songs an eclectic, original sound - not to mention street creds. Check out “The Littlest Birds” off their debut album, “Blue Horse” if you want to sample their sound.
By MGL
December 1, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
A point on Glavine that I don’t think has been made. Tom made the announcement after the season’s end that he was going to decide whether to play for the Mets or the Braves. Perhaps a little presumtuous regarding the Braves interest. He then proceeded to set the timetable of his decision by start of winter meetings. JS was in a position of not being able to discuss terms until the Mets declined their option (Nov 15, I think). Therefore, Tom has given JS a relatively short window to accomodate his decision schedule. We should not blame JS for taking as much time as he can.
By Shaun
December 1, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
KC,
I agree with that the Yankees and Red Sox are the largest example of payroll disparity being a problem. But it’s hard for anyone except other AL East teams (maybe not the owners of those teams) and their fans to see it as a problem because, as most of us know, MLB is making more money than ever.
It’s hard to blame the Yankees and Red Sox because I’m pretty sure they sale the most merchandise and their meaningful games draw the most ratings. And it’s hard to blame MLB because having the Yankees and Red Sox as elite teams seems to be helping them make more money.
Still, it seems like it would be beneficial to give the other teams in the AL East a chance every once in a while at least. That’s why I think the solution to any economic problem is better revenue distribution. The Yankees and Red Sox do make the most money, but they would be nothing without being in a major league.
A drastic solution would be to have the league control all of the revenue and distribute it equally to every team, baseball team socialism, if you will. But a lot of the owners would never ever go for that.
By Ricardo
December 1, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
It’s now reported on ESPN news that TG and the Mets agreed to a 1 year deal. If it’s true, that sucks.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
Folks, I think he’s going to stay with Mets. Hopefully I can confirm it soon, but sounds like it’s done.
By KC
December 1, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal:
“Barring a sudden shift, free-agent left-hander Tom Glavine is expected to re-sign with the Mets. The Braves simply face too many obstacles in trying to bring him back to Atlanta.”
“Among the issues:”
• “The Braves probably do not want to give Glavine more than they pay right-hander John Smoltz, who will earn $8 million next season. The Mets’ offer to Glavine likely would be at least $11 million per season over two years.”
• “Braves general manager John Schuerholz does not issue no-trade clauses. The Mets are willing to grant Glavine full no-trade protection.”
• “The Braves are seeking to trade right-hander Tim Hudson to clear money for Glavine, but Schuerholz is said to be asking too high a price, seeking both quality talent and financial relief.”
• “Hudson signed with the Braves for a discount because of his desire to play in Atlanta. If traded, his new team might control him for only one season; Hudson could demand a trade as a player dealt in the middle of a multi-year contract. Though such players rarely exercise their right to become a free agent if no deal is completed, Hudson almost certainly would be unhappy with a trade.”
• “The past friction between Schuerholz and Glavine — stemming from Glavine’s departure for the Mets as a free agent after the 2002 season — might increase the difficulty of completing a deal.”
DOB:
Do you think Ken has some credible information to support his belief that the Braves are trying to move Hudson? I have a bit of a hard time believing that right now.
Also, is a no-trade really that big an issue? I mean, what are the odds that Atlanta would trade him during the season in his first year back? As for a second possible year, couldn’t the Braves simply offer an opt-out clause to Glavine? Whadya think?
Finally, do you really think Glavine’s still holding hard feelings against JS to the degree that it would get in the way of his returning?? He wouldn’t be playing for Shuerholz… he’d be playing for Bobby Cox. I have a hard time with that one as well.
The money, yes, that’s a big advantage to NY, but the rest of that stuff… not so much, in my view. What do you think DOB?
By bob
December 1, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this
just heard on espn radio that peter gammons is reporting the Mets signed Glavine to a 1yr..11 million..w/option for a second yr…hope its not true!!
By The Stranger
December 1, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
DOB, while we’re all waiting (IM)-patiently for the latest “BREAKING NEWS,” on the Tommy G Sweepstakes, who are the real Jayhawks this season? The team that lost to ORU & scuffled with Ball St, or the team that knocked off last year’s champion on a “neutral” court? Excepting maybe A&M in Feb, that looks to be the last big game for the ‘Hawks until tourney time. Is that Self’s fault for scheduling light, or is that the result of an uncharicteristically soft Big 12?
(Hey, this is the people’s blog, too, and the Man in Black was a huuuge Jayhawk fan, no?)
By berigan
December 1, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
Just curious. When the blog gets long like this one(and we got a new one just Wednesday!) does it take you all 4-5 minutes for the page to “load”? That’s what I am finding. I can’t even snoop around another browser, it freezes everything up. Strange, cuz it’s not like this page in graphics intensive.
By TennesseePaul
December 1, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this
Ricardo, you’ll have to provide a link to that report because I don’t see it anywhere on ESPN.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
GLAVINE HIMSELF JUST CONFIRMED IT TO ME. He’s GOING BACK TO METS. Will get more from him later, but in very brief conversation on phone two minutes ago he told me yes, “Looks that way” that he’s staying with Mets.
By Joe Fan
December 1, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Ken Resenthal makes it sound like the Braves are actively shopping Tim Hudson.
“The Braves are seeking to trade right-hander Tim Hudson to clear money for Glavine, but Schuerholz is said to be asking too high a price, seeking both quality talent and financial relief.”
Is that truly the case, or is that just speculation on his part?
By KC
December 1, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
DOB:
I know it’s illegal to throw things at opposing players (eggs, batteries, etc.), but could you talk to Braves officials to see if an exception can be made just when Glavine comes to town???
By Matthew
December 1, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
Oh well. We’ll just have to settle for Smoltz. Hampton, Hudson, James, and HoRam.
Thanks a lot, Time Warner creeps…
Tom, hope you enjoy your time in NY and finish with 299 wins, and lose every game you pitch against ATL.
By KC
December 1, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
I feel like such an idiot. Why did I ever get my hopes up that Glavine would truly care about anything more than the size of the offer? I’m an idiot.
By Greg in TN
December 1, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
Sounds like JS in the end couldn’t get everything lined up to make a competitive offer. Would have been nice to have Glavine on board, but those are the breaks. I’m sure JS will take a lot of grief for not getting everything lined up, but I suspect that in the end, he just wasn’t able to get what he felt was a reasonable return for Hudson, HoRam, Giles or what deal he was trying to make.
By rammerjammer
December 1, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
And the sun will rise tomorrow…with the Braves still having a solid four-man rotation.
But now we also know how the other half lives.
By TennesseePaul
December 1, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
I’m reading a lot of speculation, but haven’t seen anything concrete yet. I’d like to know though. Glavine taking the big bucks doesn’t surprise me. There’s a small part of me that hopes he’ll for go the dollar signs and go with family, friends, and a story book ending. We’ll know soon I guess
By Amanda
December 1, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
<<>>
Wow…REAL classy. Geez….
By journalist jimmy smith
December 1, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
oh, the humanity! the humanity! how will this team survive without tom glavine?
and what does this do for our city’s culture? he will not be attending our symphony nor will he be in our museums. forget the theatre - he will surely prefer broadway to juniper street. this is a major hit culturally. will this city survive?
and the little babies - won’t they miss their daddy? won’t they find it hard to travel to shea er, uh, citicarp field to watch for number 300 in say, august or so?
so much agent, union guy crap. work it for the last dollar and then ask for some more. now, js, find us a young pitcher who can throw faster than 83 mph.
By Matthew
December 1, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
I guess history, family, and reuniting with the reason why you are a HOF pitcher is not as important as a few bucks. I’m sad, but not surprised.
THANK GOD FOR JOHN SMOLTZ! We do have a HOF pitcher who actually cares about the Braves, and it’s John Smoltz. I hope everyone gives him a standing ovation every time he goes to the mound next year. He deserves it.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
Her’s what I just filed to post online. Will call Glavine back now and try to get through again, though I’m sure his phone’s quite busy now:
Tom Glavine’s flirtation with the Braves is over and he’s decided to return for a fifth season with the New York Mets, the veteran left-hander confirmed this afternoon to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
It’s believed to be a one-year contract, though Glavine didn’t get into details in a brief conversation. An announcement by the Mets was expected shortly.
Glavine is 10 wins shy of being the 23rd pitcher to reach 300, and had hoped to come back to Atlanta to get those 10 wins with the team he was with for his first 242 wins during 1987-2002.
But the Braves, with less need for a top starter and less money to spend for one, couldn’t compete with the Mets’ offer, believed to be worth at least $11 million.
Glavine notched five 20-win seasons won two Cy Young Awards with the Braves, and was also the 1995 World Series MVP.
After struggling for 2-1/2 seasons with the Mets, he revamped his approach and was 26-14 with a 3.22 ERA in his past 53 starts, including 2-1 with a 1.59 ERA in three during the 2007 postseason.
He was 15-7 with a 3.82 ERA and 198 innings pitched in 32 starts during the regular season.
The Mets told Glavine they’d wait while he explored returning to the Braves. He still lives in Alpharetta and desired to be home during the baseball season instead of flying his family to New York on weekends and visiting them on the Mets’ days off.
By Ricardo
December 1, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
I’d love to see him to his thing in Atl in ‘07, but in all honesty, I’d probably have done the same thing. It’s a LOT of money and that’s a very hard thing to walk away from, no matter how much you’ve already made.
By KC
December 1, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
TennPaul:
Did you see DOB’s most recent post above?
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
TENNPAUL, the confirmation came from GLAVINE himself. He just told me
By Matthew
December 1, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
At least we had something to discuss for a few days. Look at all the comments on the last few blogs.
DOB, thanks for the hard work. It’s been fun. Now we get to see if John S. is able to do anything with our budget constraints. Thanks a lot, Time Warner creeps.
By TennesseePaul
December 1, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
His kids crying, begging him to stay home. He’s family needs him. The fan base was warming up to him again. Union Boy slaps them all down and takes the money and runs. Frikin Glavine. I hope our rookies figure him out and pound him into oblivion this season. I’d love to see his season end with a 9-16 record and a 5.50 ERA.
Of course if by some strange happening he does come back, I’ll take it all back. But I’m not counting on it.
By Greg in TN
December 1, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
I’m with you, Rammerjammer. We don’t have a potential option year hanging over our heads from what likely would have been offered to Glavine. The team will have more options next year than this year the way things look to shake out.
By TennesseePaul
December 1, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
SI has the contract at 10.5 million
Here
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/01/bc.bbn.mets.glavine.ap/index.html
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
Should be 2006 postseason in that post, not 2007, obviously.
I’ll get a new blog up later today, just wanted to wait to see if this thing went down before filing one that would quickly outdated.
As I said all along, no surprise to me whichever way he went on this thing. I never had a strong feeling either way.
By Patrick
December 1, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
I can now see Shuerholtz doing absolutley nothing this offseason. He had a top tier starting pitcher practically begging to come back and even for a discount and he did nothing about it apparently.
I guess the next move we can except JS to pull off to guarantee attendence at Turner Field goes down is trading Giles for an underwheling package in return at the same time signing zero free agents.
Nice job John—
By Arkansas Hillbilly
December 1, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Way to string all your die-hard fans along and the pull the rug out from under us, Tommy boy.
I’m sure that most of the Tom Glavine fans that were on the fence about you coming back will now forever boo your a** relentlessly as soon as we pull the Eagle Claw 2/0 off-set shank worm hooks out of our lips….. Thanks for dangling any hopes of forgiveness in the face of the Braves nation…..I echo KC and Matthew’s sentiments in saying: May your NY rats be plentiful, may your ringfinger remain cold, and may your career end with 299 wins and a Chipper Jones walk-off homerun in the bottom of the ninth of a complete game loss……jackass.
By Carolina Lady
December 1, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
Did JS make an offer to TMG or not?
By rammerjammer
December 1, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
OK, let’s compile a list of serviceable starting pitchers available at less than $7 million.
Hmm…
By the way, MAJOR KUDOS DOB for remembering your bloggers. Now that’s loyalty.
By Haywood Jablome
December 1, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this
Now that the big charade is finally over, can we just skip the jilted lover bull-s and focus on the GM meetings? Deep down, you always knew that Tom was looking out for Tom and nobody else. If you’re looking for fairy tale endings, go rent “The Natural”.
By Amanda
December 1, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this
Whoops! LOL. My “Wow..Real classy” post somehow ate the thing I was commenting on.
I was being sarcastic and said the following was “real classy”:
I know it’s illegal to throw things at opposing players (eggs, batteries, etc.), but could you talk to Braves officials to see if an exception can be made just when Glavine comes to town???
Because..no matter how frustrated or upset you might be that a deal didn’t go down, or no matter how much you might not like someone…saying you want to throw things at them…isn’t cool.
By michael
December 1, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
Maybe Christmas time isn’t the right time to ask your wife and kids if they want you home more or if they want you to make more money. Oh well, no hard feelings. With Wickman all set and Chuck J. in the rotation…I like the Braves odds with what they have right now.
By Greg in TN
December 1, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
What was JS supposed to do, Patrick? From the rumblings going around, JS tried to clear out some salary to make room, but realistically the timeframe just didn’t work out. The one thing that probably drug negotiations for a trade was exactly what you sarcastically suggested in the second paragraph. I imagine he kept getting an underwhelming response in his attempts to trade enough payroll out to make room.
By Dave
December 1, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
Done deal. Glavine 1 year 10.5 million with the Mets
By AZBravoFan
December 1, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
Sorry Tommy, but you’re a fraud. I don’t want to hear all this crap about how it’s hard to leave all that money on the table. If you want to play at home, then you take your 7 million and play at home. If you want to be a good dad and husband, then you do the right thing for your kids. Whose kids are going to have better memories of their childhood? Glavine’s who spent their childhood watching dad on TV? Or say Pendleton’s who actually got to spend time with their dad while they were growing up rather than flying around and disrupting their lives. TP could have taken the money and the glory, but chose to stay home and be with his family. Tom chose the money….Again. Not sure why he even bothered to go through this charade about trying to decide where to play. He knew long ago where the most money was going to come from. So go ahead and enjoy it Tommy. Win 300. Wear a freakin’ Mets hat to the Hall for all I care. In the words of Stephen Colbert: you’re dead to me.
By rammerjammer
December 1, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
Another complication for signing Glavine was that Smoltz will surely get a new contract after next season, when his current one expires.
It’s ok for Maddux and Glavine to go, but not Smoltz. He IS the Braves, and Homeboy will have to make him a reasonable offer to stay after this season. The Glavine deal would’ve made that mighty difficult.
By TennesseePaul
December 1, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
Sorry guys. I posted that and about 15 minutes later the blog was done re-loading with the latest post from DOB.
Forget Glavine. We’re going to win next year and at least 17 wins are going to come from spanking those stupid Mets and their money grabbin’ B!tches all over the place.
GO BRAVES
By Calvin
December 1, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
That was a money driven decision.
By JC FROM UT
December 1, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
I guess money really is the motivating factor with TG. He had to know before all this shook out that JS could never offer him more than Smoltz makes. He had to know that he was going to have to come back at a huge discount. This being said, all TG really cares about is how much money he is going to make. He didn’t have to sign today if JS told him that he needed more time to make a trade.On the other hand JS could have signed TG and then traded someone.This whole situation stinks. I guess TG will now go into the HOF as a Met. I sure hope JS does not stop talking to which ever team(s) he was talking to regarding Hudson,HoRam and Giles or whoever else he may be talking about.
By J-MAN
December 1, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
Well it looks like the Braves have put all their eggs in 1 basket and the Mets just took that basket. D.O.B. now that the Glavine saga is finally over what moves could be made, think you should make a blog post about it.
By Greg in TN
December 1, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this
The thing that keeps jumping back in the back of my mind is that JS could have shared what the Braves had in mind, Glavine could himself had been okay with it and then either Clifton, the MLBPA or a combination thereof sniffed it and said no freakin’ way.
By Bravo Nam
December 1, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this
DOB
It’s 5.00am in the Nam…no one can say I’m not a mad Braves fan…DOB…thanks for your faithful attention to this blog.
I don’t care how Glavine the wanker wants to spin things…I’ve said all along he and others are motivated by greed…and the pidgeons have come home to roost.
Fu**ck him (this is the real Nam, not Stinky)…he can cry like a baby all he wants about wifey and kiddies, 300 wins blah, blah…and don’t any of you ponces stand up for him by saying he has to do it coz wouldn’t we all…what a load of crap…many of us choose to follow a path of integrity…Glavine is a p** poor sell out!
By journalist jimmy smith
December 1, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
for all of you who think we must have a glavine in atlanta - maybe the panda should be named tom glavine. two birds, one stone. have to pull two panda teeth, though.
By Tommy G
December 1, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this
cowwective bawgaining is my wife.
By Carolina Lady
December 1, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
So. It’s more important to have $2-$3 million dollars to add to the existing $100 million already on hand than to be with your family. How much will it cost to fly them back and forth every weekend, housing, etc in NY? It certainly isn’t important that you’re totally disrupting the lives of the kids and wife - ‘cause you’re getting a couple of extra million. What you gonna spend it on???
By J-MAN
December 1, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
Fellow Braves Fans: if you are truly a Braves then at the end of your post I want you to put * We want some moves and some change*. I just want to see how many true Braves fans that are out there that realize that we need some moves made to improve our team and we need the ownership sitiuation to become resolved and to tell JS and Wren to quit sitting with their thumbs up their collective A*******e$
By Carroll
December 1, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this
Fark that jackass! I hope he never wins another ballgame in his career!
Meanwhile, DOB, might the Braves apparently minimal interest in Glav signify that there is something to the following trade rumor reported yesterday on SI.com:
Braves send AJ to BoreSox; BoreSox send ManRam to Padres; Padres send Peavy and Linebrink to the Braves.
I mean, if that deal went down, then there’s no need for Glavine, right?
By rammerjammer
December 1, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this
Excerpts from the AP story:
“I wrestled with it,” Glavine said. “Everybody who knows me knows how important my family is.”
Glavine’s family lives in the Atlanta area, but he was surprised by how much he wanted to stay in New York.
“After four years, it’s grown on me,” he said.
His deal contains a $6 million player option for 2008 that would become guaranteed if he pitches 160 innings next season, when he will be 41. The price of the option would increase by $1 million for each additional 10 innings up to a maximum price of $10 million.
“I feel very good about it,” Mets general manager Omar Minaya said.
Glavine said the Braves never made a proposal.
“I’m sure at some point in time they would have made me an offer,” he said. “What that offer would have been, who knows?”
So JS never made an offer? Very interesting.
By Glass Half Full
December 1, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this
Here’s to Glav getting shelled by the Braves a’la 2003-2005.
By ernesto
December 1, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this
Hey, easy folks. The Braves didn’t even make Glavine an informal offer, what’s the guy supposed to do…show up for work at a place that didn’t hire him? I wasn’t happy when Tommy left over a few mill (ton of dough to me, chump change to a star starting pitcher), this time around I don’t see where we left him any option.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady and others: Braves made NO OFFER. Repeat, no offer. Despite what some others had reported.
I spoke to Tom before his conference call and made sure about it, that he didn’t even get an informal “We’ll take care of you” type assurance from Schuerholz. He said they talked only once. He was surprised not to get an offer by now.
Full story posted online at our site.
By Don
December 1, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this
Speaking from my personal opinion, as of today at 5:45 PM, I am about over Mr. Schuerholz. I, for one, would have liked to have the opportunity to have a Brave pitcher (one spending most of his career wth the Braves) try to win 300 as a Brave and possibly in our stadium. I believe this feat would have stoked good fan interest. instead, our GM apparently did not even believe it was worthwhile to formalize an offer. I hope I change my mind over the course of the next two months, but, so far, this pitching staff has not budged from it’s subpar status and I have no faith in Hudson having a revival year, Hampton being good at all, Ramirez being good/healthy, Davies even recording an out, James being able to beat the “sophomore” jinx, or the Bullpen (save Wickman) not blowing numerous late inning leads.
By d
December 1, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this
Easy on Glavine guys. He just spoke on WFAN in New York. Atlanta NEVER MADE HIM AN OFFER.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 1, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this
damaged goods. cold ringfinger. 41-years old. 83 mph top speed. too culturally advanced for atl.
Start spreading the news I’m leaving today I want to be a part of it, New York, New York These vagabond shoes Are longing to stray And make a brand new start of it New York, New York I want to wake up in the city that never sleeps To find I’m king of the hill, top of the heap These little town blues Are melting away I’ll make a brand new start of it In old New York If I can make it there I’ll make it anywhere It’s up to you, New York, New York.
I want to wake up in the city that never sleeps To find I’m king of the hill, top of the heap These little town blues Are melting away I’ll make a brand new start of it In old New York If I can make it there I’ll make it anywhere It’s up to you, New York, New York.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this
By the way, Braves aren’t offering arbitration to any of their remaining four free agents (that’s no surprise) and John Thomson could be signed soon by Seattle.
By crimedogrules
December 1, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this
Good luck Glavine!!
I hope we do something!!!
By Drummerdad
December 1, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this
MUCH ado about nothing. I would have been very surprised if Glavine had come back to us. I think John Schuerholz’s hands were tied by time and money constraints. Glavine didn’t want to make the Mets wait any longer and JS could do nothing about it. Let’s move on. Some folks that were reporting that they had an inside line on what was really going on could be trying to wipe the egg off about now.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this
Carroll, I can’t see the Padres giving up Peavy (very affordable, way under market value, for next three years) and Linebrink and taking on Manny’s huge salary. That’s only place I’ve seen or heard that rumor mentioned. I don’t think there’s anything to it.
By Glass Half Full
December 1, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this
Oh, well. Onward to the winter meetings…let’s hope something, anything gets done.
By Drummerdad
December 1, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this
Geez Jimmy S. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve played that song. Did you do that from memory, or reading? You a big “blues eyes” fan? Hard to make room in this blog for folsom prison blues and luck be a lady tonight. By the way, what’s the latest toe report?
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
December 1, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this
Ladies and Gentleman…
BACK OFF THE MAN. JS didn’t make an offer. Not for $1.00 not for $5.00 and certainly not for $10.5 MILLION dollars. What was he supposed to do? Take JS at his WORD, what word? He’s (JS) is a shrewd businessman. But you know what? He’s OUR shrewd businessman.
I don’t have a problem with Glavine not coming back. I’ve said all along, I think Glavine will give us more NEXT YEAR (maybe ONLY that) vs. Tim Hudson. That’s not to say that Glavine is more talented at his age than Hudson. But surely he’s been more consistant the last year and a half.
Who knows? Maybe JS DIDN’T EVER HAVE ANY INTEREST IN BRINGING GLAVINE BACK. I’m sure he would for the right price. Hell, EVERYBODY has a price. But to call Glavine greedy or money hungry is just ignorant. Yes. He has plenty of money. No, his kids aren’t gonna starve anytime soon (unlike Latrell Sprewells - a little joke for those of you who are up north like me. LOL!), NO he is probably not “behind” on his car payment. But I’ll repeat it one more time for those of you who don’t get it.
JS NEVER MADE AN OFFER!!!!!
What was Glavine supposed to do? Tell the Mets no thanks, I’ll just “ride” this Braves thing out a while. Then when JS KNOWS that Glavine has one choice and ONE CHOICE ONLY (to return to the Braves), what’s JS gonna do? Offer him the league minimum?
Glavine made the RIGHT move. JS NEVER MADE AN OFFER! Get over it!
Now if you want to BOO THE HELL OUT OF HIM when he comes to Atlanta…..Have at it. But if it turns out that Glavine was “WILLING” to play at home for considerably less than the Mets offered. Maybe you should BOO JS next time you see him.
What I WILL CHOOSE TO DO. I cheer for the ONES THAT ARE STILL HERE (Smoltz, Chipper, etc…).
JS didn’t make an offer for a reason. Let’s roll with it and see where he goes from here. I mean seriously. We STILL have good hitting (leadoff hitter or not), we STILL have good defense, we STILL have every pitcher that actually did anything last year (and have rid ourselves of the ones who did NOTHING), we DID sign Wickman before it was 3 months too late, unlike last year, we WILL have Chuck James for a FULL year, Hampton is coming back, which of course is an unkown comodity (but he can’t possibly be as bad as Sosa/Thomson/Davies were last year….CAN HE?), Hudson is bound to have 3 or 4 good starts next year, Roger McDowell is out from the microscope of “CLOUD LEO” so he should have a better sophomore season as pitching coach, and just to get Robert’s goat……..Last time I checked, Bobby is coming back, right? Post season failures aside, Bobby DOES know how to run a baseball team from April - September (sorry Robert - he DOES!). Besides, who the HELL knows who the next young stud (Fracoeur, McCann, James) is going to be this year? Will we catch the Mets? If Pedro isn’t healthy all year and they don’t land Zito or another TOP OF THE ROTATION starter, it is VERY MUCH A POSSIBILITY people! Even if we don’t, we were what….half a dozen games out of the wildcard spot last year? Having NOTHING MORE than Wickman for ALL of last year, would’ve made up those games in a heartbeat.
Have faith, people. Life goes on. WITH OR WITHOUT Tom Glavine. Prediction:
Mets TOTALLY collapse, because it’s THEIR turn for the injury bug to take over. Omar calles JS at the deadline to explore trading Glavine back to the Braves for the stretch run. JS thinks about it…..AND STILL SAYS “NO THANKS” and Glavine finishes the year with 299 wins. How sweet would that be. At least he’ll still have that 10.5 million, right?
I wish him well, and will enjoy watching him wear a Braves cap to Cooperstown. Until that day comes I hope his team SUCKS.
Good luck Tom, we’ll be fine without you…..AGAIN!
By Glass Half Full
December 1, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this
DOB: You’ve probably responded to this before, but do the Braves get any picks for the remaining free agents if they sign with another team? Is Saturday the deadline for teams getting picks when free agents walk?
By Joes Smoes
December 1, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this
I blame this one on JS the supposed genius of the Braves. I think he has lost a ton of class.
HOF’er knocking on his door, and he doesn’t even answer.
If JS had at least mentioned to Tommy what was on his mind, then maybe Tom would have waited. But instead…. He chooses to ignore Tommy. This reminds me of the Maddox story from a few years back.
I think JS ignores them, so he doesn’t have to do anything besides go to ritzy meetings and eat mini cocktail sausages.
But what really ticks me off is that all the bandwagon’ers bash Tommy, for simply going where he was wanted. The Mets were first class in how they handled the deal, and I hate the Mets. Props to them for actually allowing Tommy to take the time to make a choice.
Braves blow chunks again this year. Since 1991, how many World Series rings has the supposed Genus of JS given the Braves? His budget is not gimpy, and in the past he had the second or third highest payroll in baseball to work with. I say ditch JS and Bobby, there useless.
By futurebravesgm2413
December 1, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this
thanks DOB for all your hard work on the blog with the Glavine stuff.
By Richard Cory
December 1, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this
Personally, I’m glad things worked out as they did. This will be best for us in the long run. Spend the money on someone with some ‘upside’, not on someone hanging on to reach a career milestone. If he had stayed with us, then I would say ‘do whatever it takes to help him reach that plateau.’ He chose not to, and I think we will be fine. By the way, where is the Grinch??
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
December 1, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this
Joes Smoes
“This reminds me of the Maddox story from a few years back.”
Refresh my memory about “the Maddox story”. For the record, I’ll assume you’re talking about Greg MaddUx and NOT Tommy Maddox (former QB of the Steelers. LOL!)
All I remember about Maddux, Glavine and Chipper (regardless about all of the talk recently of how JS NEVER negotiates midseason), is that ALL 3 OF THEM at one time or another signed extensions mid-season.
Like I said above. DID IT EVER OCCUR TO ANYBODY that maybe JS had ZERO interest in Tommy coming back at ANY COST? With Smoltz, Hudson, James, Davies, HoRam etc……. The rotation ISN’T the problem. Yes, it could be better. But with the young guys (not to mention Cormier and Oscar looking good as starters late in the season), coming along, maybe JS is choosing to NOT SPEND ANOTHER DIME on the rotation. If that is the case, wouldn’t him “not making an offer”, be a sign of class? As to not “mis-lead” Glavine into believing that the Braves want him. Did it ever cross your mind that while Bobby has all of the loyalty in the world to his guys, TOMMY DID LEAVE THE BRAVES, and maybe Bobby didn’t want to live in the past, thus telling JS to pass?
Both of those theories are nothing more than that. But hey! DOB works for the fricking paper that covers the Braves. He has phone numbers, which he uses to CALL and TALK to all involved parties. If he didn’t have the “inside track” on what was going down and why? What makes you all (myself included) think that we knew what was going down and why.
PS….pitchers and catchers report in 75 days. :-)
But, anyhow, enlighten me with your Tomm…er, Greg Maddux story.
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 1, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
So long tommy…..oh well. Would’ve been nice but not needed.
By by Bill
December 1, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this
Thank God, this nonsense is over. We don’t need a selfish person like TG. He was only using the Braves. We don’t need another pitcher over 40. I still think there will be a monster trade.
By TennesseePaul
December 1, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this
No Offer? Maybe that’s due to the timing. JS could have made an offer tomorrow, but we’ll never know. Glavine could have waited until Monday morning or Sunday night to sign that contract. Instead he did it first thing Friday Morning.
No worries though. JS has some better moves up his sleeve I can’t wait to see what they are.
GO BRAVES
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 1, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this
You ignorant Crackers—JS didn’t offer greedy Glavine “any” money—what was TG supposed to do?…pitch in Atlanta for nothing??…
By AZBravoFan
December 1, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this
Of course JS never made an offer. We’ve been talking about this all week. He didn’t want to cough up a draft pick. He was waiting to see if the Mets offered arbitration. Probably tomorrow the offer would have come and then he could have decided. Surely Tommy’s been around the game long enough to understand the business side of it. He could have waited another 24 hrs if he really wanted to stay. Or maybe you guys are right. Maybe JS didn’t really want him at all. After all the last time we saw him with a tomahawk across his chest he was giving up 6 runs early in a playoff game.
And as frustrating as this off-season has been so far, I think we should lay of JS for now. I have yet to see any deal or signing go down that the Braves should have done for the same money. It’s a bloated market and I don’t really see anyone out there worth overspending for this year.
By Bruce
December 1, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this
It sounds to me from reading DOB’s AJC online article that Glavine got cold feet (my word’s not Dave’s).
I thought Glavine said he was going to wait until the winter meetings were about to start to decide? I thought the Mets were going to let Tom wait for the Braves to make an offer for him to consider this weekend?
The arbitration deadline did not even pass…
Just picture a relay race where Mr. Shuerholz is running the lap before Glavine’s lap with the baton and before Mr Shuerholz gets to the hand-off area, he finds out that Glavine took off to run a different race.
So all the effort by Mr. Shuerholz over the last few days to make a deal happen were wasted, because Glavine took off too soon.
By rb
December 1, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this
I rarely ever post on here but read a lot, but I can’t figure out why we don’t go after Glavine a little bit harder when it would have made us stonger and for sure weakened an already weak starting rotation for the mets seems like that would have swung things in the east quite a bit for us, here’s hoping we get a really solid set up man and cure those bullpen woes. rock chalk jayhawk!!!!!
By Greg in TN
December 1, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this
Bruce, I think you hit the nail on the head. JS tried to clear out someone so that he could put together an offer and I think he just ran out of time.
To those that are dumping on JS. Was he supposed to make an offer today, lose two draft picks for a guy that will be 41 next year? Glavine would have been nice to have, but there are much bigger fish to fry here folks.
I was thinking that perhaps JS shared some figures informally and Glavine, or someone else didn’t like the sound of the numbers, so I stand corrected there.
Life goes on, JS and Wren will be working more on the trade angle next week and I gotta believe they’ll make the moves they feel will improve the team next year. And based on their track record, I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt.
By Bruce
December 1, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this
Let’s see, quoting from the bottom of page 54 of Built To Win by John Schuerholz…
“So with all of these second thoughts swirling around in his brain, Tommy called Bobby Cox at Bobby’s farm at Adairsville, Georgia, that Saturday and, as Bobby related to us, said, “I made a mistake. I don’t want to do this.”
So maybe Glavine did not want to wait til this Saturday night for a repeat of that experience… wonder if the phone is ringing now in Adairsville.
One would hope that Glavine has Schuerholz’s number so that as his feet were getting cold, at least Glavine could tell JS. I hope we can get this level of detail about the process.
By Joes Smoes
December 1, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this
Nathan….
I am referring to the Greg Maddux deal, or shall I say lack of a deal.
When it was time for a new contract with Greg a few years back, JS simply ignores the client and does not make an offer, or wastes his time with simple talk, but no hard or firm answer. Never owning up to the cold shoulder. I think it’s a very rude tactic.
He also did this Tommy a few years ago when he first left for the Met’s. He would do enough just to say he had been nice to his once franchise player. My guess is that he doesn’t want his fans to get mad at him for not going with a fan favourite. In turn the fans see the player as snubbing the home team, or in some cases… Being a gold digger.
By Greg in TN
December 1, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this
Just saw that the AP is reporting the Giants have signed Ray Durham to a 2-year deal for between $14 and $15 million and the same story also is saying that an announcement will be made soon that both Rich Aurelia and Dave Roberts will also be penning contracts in SF.
One thing I meant to say earlier and didn’t remember to add to my previous posts, thanks for keeping us in the know DOB!
By The Stranger
December 1, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this
This is a WIN-WIN Braves Fans. Tommy G continues to spend the Mets’ money in the state of Georgia and the Braves will continue to feast on that 83 MPH fastball - low and away, low and away, low and zzzzzzzzzz.
The only way I would’ve complained if Glavine had signed with the Braves is if Bobby decided to start him in a playoff game. Glavine’s October days are over. We are fortunate to have watched him win for the Braves in his prime and we are now fortunate again that he will be pitching for the enemy. Best of luck Tommy. No hard feelings.
By Don
December 1, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this
One or two of you above have referred to the Mets “class” in dealing with Glavine and making him feel wanted. I believe that Shuerholz has significally lost his “class” and is becoming all about alienating current and prospective players. I mean, over the past few years, some of the veterans have publicly butt heads with Schuerholz (Glavine, Smoltz, A Jones). This was once a franchise where players wanted to be and I distinctly have gotten the impression this status has changed. Almost all recent free agents have left (I know, primarily for money) and more will seemingly be on the go in the next couple of years. It appears we can’t even strike a quicky with Daryl Ward for heavens sake. I just get the impression that JS has his butt in his arse and no one wants to deal with him anymore (free agent or trade). I hope I am wrong and I hope positive things happen in the days and weeks ahead in building this team for 2007.
By Matthew
December 1, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this
Keith Foulke is available. Should we pursue him as a setup man and possible successor to Wickman?
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
December 1, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this
Mind you all that I realize THAT I WAS SAYING GET OFF GLAVINE’S BACK a little while ago. I still stand by that. JS after all NEVER DID MAKE AN OFFER. But, having said that, Glavine is an intelligent man, surely he KNEW JS would eventually make an offer that wasn’t on the “are KIDDING me? - low side”.
Since I stuck up for Glavine a little earlier, I thought I’d take a little jab at him here, by posting this piece from John Heyman from si.com’s website:
“• Nice story of the week: Good guy Randy Wolf decided to go home to pitch for the Dodgers for a reasonable one-year, $8 million deal because he’s very close to his mother, Judy, and wanted to pitch home games at Dodger Stadium, where he used to go with his father, who passed away several years ago. Wolf turned down several three-year offers to pitch elsewhere. He had multi-year bids from the Diamondbacks, Cubs and Phillies, and great interest from the Mets and many other teams. Wolf is taking some risk as a pitcher who’s had Tommy John surgery a year and a half ago. But to him, it’s worth it.”
Appears that being close to home and NOT RAPING EVERY LAST PENNY is important to some people. Also notice that this was Randy Wolf, not Clemens or somebody else of Glavine’s stature (or monetary value - money earned, not money in the “bank”, I’m not aware of Glavines NET WORTH, but it doesn’t take a Brain surgeon - just the internet - to calculate HOW MUCH Glavine has “earned” in MLB).
But, in the end, I think he just went where he was WANTED. IMO, he would’ve signed for less had an offer been on the table.
Here’s the link to Heyman’s complete article.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/12/01/scoop.friday/index.html
By Stinky
December 1, 2006 08:11 PM | Link to this
Well Papa go to bed now it’s getting late Nothing we can say is gonna change anything now I’ll be leaving in the morning from St. Mary’s Gate We wouldn’t change this thing even if we could somehow Cause the darkness of this house has got the best of us There’s a darkness in this town that’s got us too But they can’t touch me now And you can’t touch me now They ain’t gonna do to me What I watched them do to you
So say goodbye it’s Independence Day Tom Glavine ran away His tail tucked between his legs Just say goodbye it’s Independence Day It’s Independence Day this time
Now I don’t know what it always was with us We chose the words, and yeah, we drew the lines There was just no way this house could hold the two of us I guess that we were just too much of the same kind
Well say goodbye it’s Independence Day Tome Glavine ran away as a Met today So say goodbye it’s Independence Day All men must make their way come Independence Day
Now the rooms are all empty down at Frankie’s joint And the highway she’s deserted clear down to Breaker’s Point There’s a lot of people leaving town now leaving their friends, their homes At night they walk that dark and dusty highway all alone
Well Papa go to bed now, it’s getting late Nothing we can say can change anything now Because there’s just different people coming down here now And they see things in different ways And soon everything we’ve known will just be swept away
So say goodbye it’s Independence Day Tommy Glavine ran away Nothing more to say But won’t you just say goodbye it’s Independence Day I swear Tom Glavine will one day pay.
By Stinky
December 1, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this
Jimmy Smith, you were right to point out Tom Glavine’s cold ring finger. I thought he was a dickhead too, but, at the time, I wasn’t into giving his issues the time of day. You did well to call that shytbird a shytbird. Well Done JJS.
By Stinky
December 1, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this
By Haywood Jablome
December 1, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this
Now that the big charade is finally over, can we just skip the jilted lover bull-s and focus on the GM meetings? Deep down, you always knew that Tom was looking out for Tom and nobody else. If you’re looking for fairy tale endings, go rent “The Natural”.
Well said Haywood.
By Stinky
December 1, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this
Davida O’Brainless, Lets hope this is the last time you give real and true Braves fans the lump of shyt you call journalism - i.e. your lobbying for Tom Glavine. ES&D DOB, you worthless turd sucker.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this
Just filed yet another LONG version for online with some rather revealing quotes from Schuerholz, who admits Braves have been trying to make some trades to clear up payroll space for Glavine. He says they couldn’t engage in serious negotiations with Glavine until they were assured of having the room in their payroll (hey, just telling you what the man said).
Anyway, it should be posted soon, if not already. When you see version with Schuerholz quote high in story, that’s the new one.
By Richard Cory
December 1, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this
Don per your post 7:25pm. I really do hope your right, and he has his “butt in his arse”.
By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)
December 1, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this
Joes Smoes
I hear ya. I’m convinced you are reading way too much into JS’s tactics. If Ted still owned the Braves and gave JS “an open checkbook”, YES, I believe that JS would keep “fan favorites” for the sentiment of it.
But make no mistake about it. JS never has, and never will be part of the ridiculousness of the free agency game. I’m NOT thoroughly convinced with an open checkbook, that Glavine would’ve been kept before, same for Maddux and same goes for THIS time with Glavine.
I’m speculating, but JS seams like the type of businessman, that ACTUALLY analyzes his team, the budget given to him and THE AVAILABLE talent out there. Whether that talent is in the form of a Free Agent or via trades. My guess is, the SECOND the season ended, he attatched a “dollar ammount” that he would be willing to give to Glavine, based on his age, ability, the market and most importantly THE PRIORITIES of the Atlanta Braves. IMO, Starting pitching isn’t the BIGGEST problem. A problem none the less, but if the other issues are solved, we can WIN with the starters that are already here, so long as they stay healthy.
I’ll pose my theory as relating to past and present Maddux/Glavine negotiations.
Let’s say you have a favorite restaurant you go to, (ie: Glavine), you’ve milked it for EVERYTHING it’s worth. All the sudden out of nowhere the “market” explodes for that restaurant, thus PRICES ARE RAISED. In the mean time, not only has your “spending cash” not gone up, it’s GONE DOWN (Time Warner as owners), so you are left with a choice: OVERSPEND for one of your favorite restaurants, or find another place to eat (Russ Ortiz, Mike Hampton, John Thompson), that MIGHT not be as good as your favorite, but at the end of the day, your not hungry anymore. Oh, and to boot, YOU HAVE MONEY LEFT OVER to pay for other things you may need on a daily basis.
Sorry, a little tacky. But right to the point, IMO. JS doesn’t have the funds anymore, and the Braves have OTHER NEEDS that have to be filled. Would Glavine have been a “nice” addition? NO DOUBT. Would it have been even NICER to have the Mets NOT HAVE HIM for next year? ABSOLUTELY. I would love to have a Ferarri, but IT’S NOT IN MY BUDGET! I suppose Glavine is more like a “suped up” Model T! LOL!
By Lew
December 1, 2006 09:06 PM | Link to this
Stinky-You’re a Whiny Little Jerk. Always have been and always will be. Braves Fans- Glavine knew all along the Braves were not going to get in a bidding war-that they couldn’t afford to. If he was going to come back to Atlanta, it had to be on the Braves’ terms. If he really wanted to come back and it wasn’t about the money he should have told them to make an offer, if that’s what he wanted. Playing one offer against the other was never going to work, so I guess we all know what his real goal was. Let him go. Who needs him. I was always a Glavine supporter up til this. Not anymore. All who thought he was all about the money were just proved right. Amen and Selah.
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 1, 2006 09:11 PM | Link to this
Stinky,
Davida, did you bloe Glavine’s agent the way you did Boras?
Whats the point your trying to make with this remark? I cant imagine someone who continues to make him/her self look like a 14 year kid.
If you like this type of banter where all it becomes is insults I’m sure there are blogs on the net that will more than accomadate you. Do you truley need attention that bad?
Further, for someone who doesn’t like DOB or the regualar blog patrons you regualry insult you continue to post. Not to mention most of your post are ones of this nature. Why?
P.S. Most of us know your next post is going to state that you did not post that so save it.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this
You’re pathetic. Really. You know where i’ll be 81 games next year. Funny how you wait until the offseason to make threats you can’t back up. Twerp.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 1, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this
drummerdad, the song seemed to fit. this whole episode with glavine reminds journalist jimmy smith of american leaguer george webber who said, you can’t go home again. now, as much as this journalist enjoys blogging and as much as this journalist would like to talk some baseball and some pie - jimmy smith has had enough stinky for awhile. journalist bob is looking smarter all the time.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this
Billy, remember the guy who you used to kind of feel sorry for in high school or junior high? Well, the internet’s given him a chance to get EVEN! Yeah! Whew, that’s tough. Punched in high school, now misspells ridiculous threats on a blog he can’t possibly pull himself away from.
Well, now that my work is done, I’m gonna enjoy the rest of Friday night. You keep posting here from your mom’s basement, wuss. (I’m shocked you’re alone again on Friday, not out partying. Shocked.)
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this
Lew, can you imagine the reception Tom’s going to get now when he pitches at Turner Field. Ohh, it will not be pleasant. It was harsh before, but now, fair or not, it’s going to be two-fold as bad, I’d imagine.
By Greg
December 1, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this
The Atlanta Royals are soon to be a reality.The Braves are no longer America’s team because of idiotic decisions by Time Warner. And now they have little or no ability to compete. Next year we’ll lose Andruw and get nothing back in return. Unless Hudson wins 15, I predict a fourth place finish in the East. Florida is a better team. The Phillies are a better team. And the Mets will have Glavine and Zito. We are on a long road to an ugly, ugly decline.
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 1, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this
I knew the budget was the reason or excuse, however you wanna look at it. So they may not be very active in the winter meetings. I dont understand that sentiment. Although Wickman was a big addition, I dont think he makes us a championship contender. Same goes for Hampton. I would be really disappointed if some sort of deal to improve the middle part of the bullpen isnt made. If this team had a losing record last year what make them think it’s gonna change this year with virturlly the same team. We may contend for the division, but dont think the pennant or WS.
By Greg in TN
December 1, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this
Good quotes from JS. The man tried to swing a deal to clear up space and just ran out of time. I would imagine that there were several teams out there that would have been glad to take what we were offering, but wouldn’t give us anything we needed in return, or at least came in with an underwhelming offer.
Thanks again DOB, look forward to seeing what happens during the meetings next week.
By jd
December 1, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this
not to be negative… knowing nothing about being a baseball gm, but having spent 30 years firmly entrenched in corporate america and knowing what john malone’s ideas of budgets are; js has no flexibility…here’s a scenario for 07…we trade giles for one/maybe 2 mediocre middle relievers or one and a utility infielder; we keep andrew until mid-season-if we’re in the race, we keep him…if we’re not we dump him (with his consent) to a contender for a prospect; we shop hudson but find no takers, and since he doesn’t cost us much in 07, we wait to see how the ownership situation shakes out and probably dump him before 08; we pray that hampton recovers, james wasn’t a fluke, smoltz survives, hudson has a few decent starts, and a miracle happens in our bullpen…we f* around with several leadoff hitters and pray (we’ll be doing a bunch of that) that aybar and the other kids come through and that andrew has a “free-agent” year…maybe lightning strikes and we’re the cardinals of 07…if not, we hope malone’s tax breaks expire in 08 or 09 and we get competitive owners…i’m just sorry that tommy is not going to win 300 in atlanta (i was at THE game in 95 and i’ll never forget him or justice); that js has to manage this team with one hand tied; and that bobby has to make do with a shaky bullpen and an erratic starting lineup…but, that’s baseball and i’ll still be pulling for them…stinky, the independence day lyrics were a great post
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this
Billy, by “maybe not as busy” at the meeting I think Schuerholz was alluding to fact that Braves no longer are forced to try to trade Hudson and Giles (though I still believe Giles will be dealt) because they’re not trying to scramble to open payroll room.
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 1, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this
Lew,
What drive you to those conclusions about Glavine. I totaly dont get that vibe.
By David O'Brien
December 1, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
JJS, I’ve had enough, too. Was going to try to write another blog, but i’ll turn it over to Sybil and let it entertain itself with witty, engaging posts.
By Richard Cory
December 1, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this
Hey Stinky——SALUTE!!!!
By ssiscribe
December 1, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this
Saw the first story on Glavine on my phone while sitting in traffic, on our way to a Friday night family dinner at the fine dining establishment on the corner of North Ave. and the Downtown Connector.
(Nothing beats the Varsity on a Friday night, even though the place was crawling with Hogs’ and Gators’ fans).
Just finished reading the longer write-thru on here, and I’m not surprised this happened. For all the speculation about Glavine coming back, I wrote a couple of weeks ago I didn’t think we’d see Glavine at Lake Buena Vista because too much had to happen.
What had to happen was the Braves had to free up payroll, and trading Marcus Giles and/or Tim Hudson wasn’t as simple as dealing either or both for prospects who may never see Turner Field. You have to get quality major league players to help the team right away if you give up players like Giles and/or Huddy.
Without moving that payroll off the roster, no way you can bring Glavine in at even $6 million a year, let alone the $7 million-$8 million most of us thought Glavine would accept. It takes two teams to make a trade, and until the deal is done and announced, no deal merely talked about can be considered a lock.
Good luck in N.Y., Tommy. Unlike some folks, I hold no ill will against him. I watched him pitch eight of the best innings of his life on Oct. 28, 1995, to help the franchise I grew up watching lose 90+ games a year win the World Series, and I was there in person to see it.
I wanted Glavine back because he’ll be the third great Braves pitcher of my lifetime to win his 300th game wearing somebody else’s uni (Niekro and Maddux), and that just plain sucks.
Now, DOB, how does this change the approach JS takes to the winter meetings? Obviously, the emphasis on moving Giles remains, but I don’t think if the Braves were serious about dealing Huddy, they’ll remain as adament about moving him unless somebody makes an offer that knocks Atlanta’s socks off.
Selah. Charlton leads Buford late 12-0. Gotta love it when those old South Georgia teams I used to watch play those old North Georgia teams I used to watch, and all I have to do is sit here in the comfort of my living room and watch, typing only to talk a little baseball as the chilly winds of December blow into the ATL.
Selah.
—30—
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 2, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this
I can post again…..
Stinky time and place and tell me what the bet is.
By Calvin
December 2, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
So much for Dave Roberts leading off for the Braves.
Dave Roberts signs with SanFran
By Bravo Nam
December 2, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
Wow, I don’t know what happened to this blog, but we were unable to blog for 14 hours!
After reading various news service reports, and statements attributed to JS and Glavine, one thing is clear- Glavine is a very intelligent man. Not only had he and his wife supposedly made the decision two days before announcing it, but given that the main reason he cited for returning to the Mets was the team and New York City- not money nor family- then you gotta suspect he had a fairly strong inkling as to his final decision long before he and his partner made their final decision.
He’s a clever man because the timing was beautiful in terms of making it seem as though JS was the bad guy in all of this…not the other way around. Glavine is no fool. He knew that JS was waiting for a trade to go down and for the arbitration deadline to pass before making him an offer. If Glavine genuinely wanted to return to the Braves, he could’ve given JS more time. The deadline given by the Mets was still a few days away.
It’s not rocket science for Glavine or any of us to have realised why JS hadn’t yet made a formal offer.
Glavine cleverly publicised his decision less than 24 hours before the arbitration deadline so that he could leave the perception out there that it was because JS didn’t make a formal offer that he ended up making the decision he did. If Glavine was a straight shooter, he would’ve given JS more time. In fact, if 24 hours later JS had’ve made a formal offer, Glavine would’ve looked bad turning that down to return to the Mets. JS and fans could’ve taken the high road that ultimately Glavine cared more about the money and was more loyal to the Mets than the Braves.
In publicising his decision before JS made the offer, it made him look like the victim, JS the villain and the Mets the class act…so therefore, creating public sympathy for his decision. As I said, a clever man.
His worst nightmare would’ve been for JS to make a formal offer before he had publicly announced his decision…he didn’t want this…as it then would’ve been clear why TG made his decision…he cut JS off at the pass before he could get in first.
As a Braves fan, the most upsetting things about all of this for me actually have nothing to do with Glavine not playing for the Braves or taking a greedy grab, but rather that:
1) Ultimately, he preferred playing for the Mets than the Braves- it’s not that important for him to play his 300th in a Braves jersey- this aspect of his quandary regarding whether to stay or go was clearly overstated, and,
2) He’s the villain here, but cleverly positioned himself that he’s ended up making the Braves organization, and JS in particular, appear like villains and the NY Mets a class act- - - - to you Mr. Glavine I say, make sure you let the door hit you on the a* on your way back to the Mets, because you’re a fantastic plastic fake!
Carolina Lady
In relation to the money aspect of things in the Glavine deal, couldn’t agree wtih you more. The guys already made 100 million- so what’s more important, a few extra mill on top or his family’s happiness?
DOB
Right on brother- Mr. TG is going to get plenty next time (deservedly so) he returns to Atlanta, and I’m just sorry I can’t be in the crowd with my fellow Braves brothers and sisters giving him the Michael Vick bird flip- man, Braves fans are going to give the word hostile new meaning!
AZBravoFan
I’m hearing ya!
By Bravo Nam
December 2, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
What is so frustrating with how this TG thing played out is that the Braves, who have done nothing since the end of the season in terms of signings and trades, lost valuable time focusing on this Glavine mess.
A Glavine signing would’ve brought additional movement in terms of trades, making a quiet offseason heat up and keeping fans happy. Ironically, in not signing Glavine, it’s now gonna mean less activity than if they had’ve signed him!
All I hope is that JS doesn’t make the same mistake he made last winter- making assumptions about the BP and closer situation- fiddling around the edges- not addressing it- and having it blow up in everyone’s face. He’s already indicated that this offseason there won’t be any fiddling around the edges- let’s hope he’s true to his word.
By DOB
December 2, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
I had another hissy fit!
By David O'Brien
December 2, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this
Bravo Nam, I agree with you about valuable time lost in the pursuit of Glavine. Braves could have gone hard after a reliever or a leadoff man like Dave Roberts, although in the end the three-year, $18 mill deal he got with Giants is absurd (maybe he’d have signed sooner with Braves, who knows?).
On the other hand, the market has mushroomed so out of proportion to the talents and contributions of guys like Gary Matthews Jr. (I mean, come on, he’s a 32-year-old journeyman who had a breakthrough season at 32!) and Juan Pierre, it’s hard to tell if they’d have been able to get anyone of note with their limited funds anyway.
The holdup for the Braves is, they simply aren’t willing to get fleeced for Hudson or Giles. Schuerholz likes to do the fleecing, and teams knows it. But that isn’t going to cause him to give in just to get something done. Just the way it is.
Someone pointed out what clearly seemed like yet another lack of communication between Glavine, his rep and the Braves. Schuerholz and Clifton don’t get along, and the Schuerholz book thing certainly didn’t help get the Braves any extra time when Glavine was pondering a decision.
If he’d really, really wanted to come to Atlanta, he could have made the Mets wait another two days. They would have, too.
By David O'Brien
December 2, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Grinch, just read your post and some very good, astute points that I agree with.
Oh, and sorry about the blog coming down overnight. I had no say in that decision, but didn’t protest, either.
Frankly, the limited late-night online staff had far too much stuff going with football games, previews, hoops, etc, to worry about monitoring the blog after the look-at-me infants took over.
The paper can’t just let repugnant stuff spew forth all night. Just the way it is.
I’ll get a new blog up soon, by the way. I know this one’s closing in on 800 posts and quite bogged down.
By AZBravoFan
December 2, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this
Bravo Nam Great post. I agree with you, I think that’s exactly what Tommy was thinking with all his posturing yesterday. I can rationalize now that we probably didn’t really need him in the first place. But I’m p** that I let myself get played by him too. Wonder if Smoltzie and Chipper who went out of their ways to stay and help the Braves financially harbor any animosity toward their former teammate.
By John Hoar
December 2, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
I don’t post very often because almost everyone does it better than I. But, I have to say that DOB hit it on the head in his last post. Tommy G. really didn’t want to come back to the Braves, and that makes me feel a little better. It would have been a shame if the desire had been there and we let it drop. I really don’t feel that way anymore.
One other thing and then let’s let it drop. DOB, wish you would get Smoltz’s feeling about the entire Glavine thing. Of course, because of friendship he may be guarded, but on the other hand, he is usually very up-front and straight forward.
By Billy (TBFNB)
December 2, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
Bravo Nam,
i was trying to put into words what you said. I still hold to the fact we wanted but did not need him. However, something did not seem right about how it went down. With what your wrote it make sense. Why not wait another 24-48 hours if you really had motivation to come back to Atlanta. I dont think the went back to NY strictly for the money. He probably likes it there and mabey he thinks he has a better chance at 300 wins. What it really looks like is Glavine used ATL to get a fair offer from the NY and he got the added bonus of making JS look bad. Oh well. Time to look foward to something else happening.