Braves

By Greg

November 13, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

Stagnant payroll. That says it all. We will be mediocre again.

By RC

November 13, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

It seems the key to working with a low payroll is to have young players playing above their what their salary would indicate (such as last seasons Marlins). The Braves have many players who fit that description exactly (McCann, LaRoche, Francouer, James….). The problem last year was there were many players who played well below what their salary would indicate (the entire bullpen). If we can take what money we do have to get at least 2 more dependable bullpen arms, add them to Wickman, and continue to develop Boyer, McBride, and Devine I see no reason why next year’s team would have to be “medicore”.

By ernesto

November 13, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

I agree I wish we had some more Jack to throw around (I miss the days of Ted) but last year’s World Series pitted the 82 mil Tigers against the 88 mil Cards.

By Vikingsouth

November 13, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

If the Braves can get ANYTHING of value for Andruw, that’d be great. Who is anyone kidding? A.Jones has no loyalty to the Braves, and he’ll never come back here for the money they can pay him. Given the fact that hhis agent is Steve Boras, the most difficult-to -deal -with agent there is, the Braves might as well try to get Andruw to agree to go to a contender now. As for Chipper, I think he’d be willing to go to a winner in the AL, where he could be a great DH. That’s hwere he’d be the most valuable and where his career would last longest. I hated to see the Braves get rid of Wilson Betimet(spelling probably wrong). He’d have been great.

By RC

November 13, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

Vikingsouth, how can you say Andruw has no loyalty to the Braves? He does have one of the hardest agents to deal with, which is why when he signed his last contract he told Boras not to come to the meeting and had his father help him come to an agreement. Telling your agent to not show up so he doesn’t screw you up from leaving a team is a pretty big show of loyalty. And Chipper renegotiated his contract last year costing him over $10 mil so that he could not only stay with the Braves, but help them stay competitive. I don’t understand reasoning that says we should get rid of two future Hall of Famers but we made a mistake by trading a guy who took 3 years in the majors to have any significant impact.

By ernesto

November 13, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

I think every agent is referred to as “the most difficult to deal with”, I mean when was the last time you heard something like “the affable, easy to deal with, budget-friendly agent of…”

By RC

November 13, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

BTW, Betimet is less than 3 years younger than A. Jones….great is a very generous term to describe his future.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

Ernesto, it can certainly be done with an $80 mill payroll. I was just pointing out that they can’t pursue certain free agents given their payroll constraints, that’s all.

Greg, keep in mind the Cardinals won four more games than the Braves did during the regular season, and didn’t get into the playoffs until the last day of the season, when Atlanta beat Houston to clinch the Central title for St. Louis. The difference between “mediocre” and World Series champions isn’t so great in an era when seven teams have won the World Series in the past seven years, parity that even the NFL and NBA can’t claim (neither of those leagues has had a stretch of seven different champs in seven years, for what it’s worth).

And obviously money alone isn’t the answer, because if it were the Yankees would have won a few World Series in the past six years, instead of winning one fewer than the Marlins, D-Backs and Cardinals during that stretch.

By Kevin Johnson

November 13, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

Personal opinion the braves should go for a Carl Crawford type of player. This may sound far fetched, because why would Tampa Bay give up Carl Crawford, because we throw laroche or our great catcher in the minors into the deal. You pick up crawford and you have your leadoff hitter and a 5 tool player, that can take over for a. jones next year in centerfield. You give up Laroche and you can move diaz, johnson, or langerhans to first. What do you think, a great deal for Atlanta, .300 average, 15hrs 120runs, 65sb’s, a cheaper centerfielder, and they give up laroche who put up big second half numbers last year, but i think he is dispensable. And they could get greedy and try to get Kazmir too, but tampa would be stupid to give him up. Tampa Bay has delmon young who can take over for crawford, and laroche gives them added power. A good trade I think.

By Haywood

November 13, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

Chipper Jones renegotiated his contract and saved the Braves almost $30 million dollars and cost himself a lot more than that. That is a team player. And what did the Braves do with the $35 million? Did they keep Furcal? Did they sign a great pitcher? NO. Here Chipper hands them $40 million dollars and they did nothing with it. With $43 million dollars you figure they could at least buy a bullpen.

By RC

November 13, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this

My bad, Andruw is SLIGHTLY more than 3 years older than Betemit (April b-day vs. July b-day)

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

Vikingsouth, unless “Betimet” is a different player than Wilson Betemit, then I’m going to have to disagree with you on whether he “would have been great.” He didn’t show anything over a sustained period after being traded to L.A. to suggest he’d be great. Good, yes.

By AJK

November 13, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

Great blog, DOB! How about this as another potential trade, since Boston seemed interested in Andruw previously. AJ to the Sox for Coco Crisp, Craig hansen and another stud pitching prospect. Seems like a win for both teams, and Andruw would surely put up monster #s at Fenway. Whaddya think?

By Troy

November 13, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this

I don’t like your Andruw to houston, Willy “no pop” Taveras is somewhat of a liability with the bat from what I hear plus he didn’t win th ROY in 04’ he lost to Ryan Howard and Franceour in 05’.

I really like the possibility of trying to get Chad Qualls, I proposed in a previous blog Trade Renteria to HOU for Qualls and Everett. That would give us Payroll flexibilty, the BEST Defensive SS in the majors, a quality reliver and it would give HOU the offensive upgrade they desperately need.

But form HOU perspective why would they trade a cheap promising RP especially with the whole Brad Lidge debacle last year.

By Eric Loves Boys

November 13, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this

Why don’t we trade Reitsma for Carl Crawford, and let Adam LaRoche serve as a set up guy - that way we get a leadoff hitter and better left field option, plus we then have an excuse to bring Daryl Ward in to the game in the late innings - when he always gets a hit. I should be GM.

By Patrick

November 13, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

DOB

Good point about the Braves payroll actually going down even though it’s ben $80 mil. for the last couple years. Makes sense…and is sickening at the same time.

Also, I don’t like that trade. I have taveras and wheeler and qualls don’t impress me.

By Troy

November 13, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

No way we would ever trade LaRoche he is a great defender, and run producer who isn’t breaking the bank yet

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

Kevin, are you Kelly’s brother? Or you just have that much faith in him to simply turn over 1B to Johnson _ or Langerhans or Diaz _ from a guy (LaRoche) who hit .285 with 32 homers, 90 RBIs and excellent defense?

Neither Johnson nor Langerhans has ever played the position. Ever. And you’re just going to move one of them there. Did you see Langerhans’ stats last year? Hello.

By Troy

November 13, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

Why is your name Eric loves Boys?

By AJK

November 13, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

How could anyone suggest trading Laroche after the year he had? He’s young, cheap, and unquestionably talented. Laroche stays. Langerhans would be a somewhat tradeable piece, but likely only as part of a larger deal.

By Andy

November 13, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

Ig Giles has to go, then I think Craig Counsell would be a terrific replacement. Let him and Prado split time at second base. Counsell is the pesky leadoff hitter we need. He is a also a proven winner. We could really use Linebrink in the pen. Schuerholz needs to sign Aaron Fultz. We need a dependable lefty in the pen too.

By RC

November 13, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

DOB, what do you think about the possibility of the Braves signing Keith Foulke to help out the bullpen? I know that with money tight trades are the most likely way for the team to find pitchers, but it seems like Foulke might be a less expensive option due to his struggles, plus I think a change of scenery to a team like the Braves (pitchers park, great OF defense) could really help him rebound as a player. Any chance it might happen?

By Brian

November 13, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Andruw to Anaheim for Santana and Figgins.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Troy, I don’t like the trade much either. I don’t know why I even proposed it. Moment of weakness, I guess.

Point is, Andruw almost certainly isn’t going to be traded. But at least Houston would be a place he might consider allowing the Braves to send him, if it came to that (and again, Braves tell me they’re not trying to trade him).

I would’ve said Lidge instead of Qualls/Wheeler a year ago, but Lidge’s 5-plus ERA this year was alarming. Hasn’t been the same since the Pujols bomb in the playoffs.

Don’t know what you’re referring to regarding Rookie of Year. I never said that about Taveras.

(kidding, man. don’t worry, you’re not hallucinating. i went back and changed it. good catch.)

By Troy

November 13, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

i like counsell too he’s great defensively, as well as a good clubhouse presence

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

Brian, Anaheim would only consider something like that if they were absolutely certain they’d re-sign Jones to a long-term extension. Not giving up that much talent for a one-year rental. No way.

Then again, Scott Boras does have a great relationship with Angels owner Artie Moreno….

But folks, keep in mind, at this stage of the game, the only way ANY TEAM would give up a lot of talent for Andruw would be if they had assurances he’d re-sign with them.

Expect him to be back with Atlanta in 2007, then to make an absolute killing at the free-agent ATM next winter.

By rammerjammer

November 13, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

Great info, DOB! Thanks.

If I understand correctly, Braves will make personnel changes via the trade route, not free agency.

Which begs the question…who else besides Giles will be leaving in our quest for pitching?

Or, put another way, who else besides Giles do other teams covet AND have the pitchiing JS wants?

By Andy

November 13, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

I have been calling for Counsell since last year. I sent Mr. O’Brien a few e-mails when Arizona was tailing off and he bashed me big time about getting Counsell. He isn’t spectacular, but he comes cheaper than Giles and is a leadoff type guy and is solid around the bag.

By doug

November 13, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

DOB, Why isn’t Time Warner upping our payroll this year? Haven’t the Braves been making money? Isn’t there an influx of money coming to all teams because of the new tv contracts? If the braves could get by on $80 mil before, then TW could certainly pony up some more of that Jack they are collecting from MLB. Also, Liberty doesn’t want to buy a team that’s not competitive, they should give time warner the ok to up payroll a little so when they take over things aren’t already lost for the 07 season.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer, I still think strong chance Horacio could be traded, possibly for relief if not for help elsewhere.

Langerhans or Diaz could be dealt, though I haven’t heard if there’s much interest or if they’re being shopped.

Lot of interest in Salty and increasing interest in Escobar, but don’t know if Braves want to trade either of them.

Could be interest in several other prospects, but just haven’t heard anything yet.

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 13, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

DOB,

nice blog. while it’s a little frustrating not having a payroll that can accomodate free agents, it certainly makes schuerholz’s job a little more fun to watch. he’s forced to constantly analyze which players are expendable, which ones aren’t, and how to make trades — stuff that all GMs have to do, but it seems that with payroll constraints, he would have to do so more than others.

DOB — do you think we’ll have another platoon situation in left field, possibly with daryle ward and matt diaz? or will we have an everyday player there? is it a foregone conclusion that giles will be traded?

By TennesseePaul

November 13, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this

Nice post DOB. I like the run down. With the moves Boras has pulled this season, my hope of seeing Andruw stay here is fading. But I still wouldn’t trade him. I’d like to see him here as long as possible.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this

Another great Onion article! Check it out: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55033

It’s about Gary Sheffield and it’s hilarious.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

Doug, Time Warner’s practically broke. They have barely enough operating capital as it is. Sorry, I tried to say that with a straight face…:-)

By Robert

November 13, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

Reitsma for Carl Crawford?

I have an idea. let’s trade some aging prospects that never panned out, some of the walking wounded, and some way overpaid spare parts for an underpaid young 4 tool star or two

Folks - other teams do NOT exist to help the Braves win a World Series

By Lew

November 13, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

Kevin-Let’s see if I’ve got this straight. You want to trade LaRoche for Carl Crawford so he can replace Andruw when he leaves next year? How in the world does this help the Braves? Crawford may be a decent (and only decent) replacement for Andruw, but could never replace the lost production of Andruw AND LaRoche? You want to replace 73HR and 219 RBI with Crawford’s 18 HR and 77RBI? Do you really think 58 SB will make up for this? Why not just keep LaRoche and see IF Andruw leaves. Then we can replace him without giving up anyone, using his substantial salary for the Player Du Jour of 07.

By Vikingsouth

November 13, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

OK, to further explain my comments earlier- maybe NO loyalty was extreme, but do you really think A Jones would stay with the Braves for a lot less money? No, he wouldn’t. Boras IS rtecognized as being the most difficult agent. I’m sure if anyone took a poll of GMs, most would agree. Why not get something for Andruw now instaed of nothinbg later? I was in no way criticzing Chipper. The Braves will retire his jersey one day. That said, the Brasves need good young arms to go with their good young position talent. Trading Chipper (if he’d agree) would bring that. David, you foget how well Wilson B. filled in for the Braves last year. Maybe “great” was too much, but he’d have been a solid third baseman here.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

Lew, common sense can only hurt an argument. Robert, you really don’t think they’ll bite on that one? I betcha if we throw in Salty we could get Kazmir AND Crawford, and maybe some cash to help us sign another bullpen arm. What team in their right mind could resist Reitsma and a AA catcher?

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

Andy, I didn’t “bash you big-time” about Counsell. But I’ll bash you now for lying about recommending him (kidding, kidding … I do remember you recommending him, but not me bashing you; come on, don’t exaggerate.)

Counsell’s has always been a favorite of mine, since Florida days. Good dude, and great presence. Worth more than his stats say, because he does the little things, always makes the routine plays, and comes up with big hits in big moments.

I was there the night he got hit in the face by a pitch that we all thought might end his career. Blood, gruesome incident, broken jaw, tooth through the cheek, etc. Awful. Sounded like a watermelon dropped from your roof to the driveway. It was near-empty at Pro Player Stadium, so we could hear it clearly on impact.

He was back the next season, good as new (after a bit of plastic surgery to fix the scar, if I remember correctly)

By Robert

November 13, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

The article on Sheffield was mildly humerous

here’s the start

“NEW YORK—With his newly available client Gary Sheffield on 24-hour display in an eight-square-foot glass enclosure, agent/warden Rufus Williams advised all interested general managers to avoid tapping the glass, staring, using flash photography, or making any sudden movements while in the vicinity of the notoriously temperamental Yankee right-fielder. “.

fribble is a good word - I can use it in a sentence.

Cox dribbled in his diaper while he fribbled away the Braves hopes of victory

By rammerjammer

November 13, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I could see us dealing Ramirez for a position player, and then dealing that player to a team who will give us more pitching.

It’ll be real interesting to see what Ramirez will bring, given his largely positive pitching, his largely negative health, and his arbitration eligibility down the road.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Grinch, that’s hilarious. I was having trouble with the link, figured others might too, so I just grabbed it and decided to post it in full:

Gary Sheffield’s Agent Warns Interested Teams Not To Tap Glass November 9, 2006 | Onion Sports

NEW YORK—With his newly available client Gary Sheffield on 24-hour display in an eight-square-foot glass enclosure, agent/warden Rufus Williams advised all interested general managers to avoid tapping the glass, staring, using flash photography, or making any sudden movements while in the vicinity of the notoriously temperamental Yankee right-fielder. “Gary is in a very bad mood today—you can tell by the way he’s gnawing at his straight jacket—so please, for the love of God, whatever you do, keep your voice down and don’t give him a reason to attack,” Williams said to a group of representatives from the Padres, Angels, and Giants. “Now, if you have any offers, you can submit them to me later at—wait, shh, he’s stirring… I told you to be quiet… Oh no… Get out! Get out while you still ca—aaaarrrgggghhhhh!!!” Upon escaping, Sheffield was able to maul GMs from eight teams with a losing record and one that wanted to play him at first base before being eventually subdued and signed by Scott Boras.

By Robert

November 13, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Of course I dont think they’ll bite on that. I was poking fun at folks who come on and propose that the Braves make trades the other team invoilved would have no earthly reason to consider making - as if the Braves could just unilaterally choose to obtain and dispose of players at will

Now I realize that the McGriff for Nieves, Donnie Elliott and Vince Moore trade made it seem like we could, but that was the exception not the rule

By Lew

November 13, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

VikingSouth-Why not? When Andruw renegotiated his contract several years ago, he could have gotten considerably MORE than he did signing with the Braves. Keep in mind it was at the same basic time as Manny Being Manny and ARod signing their ridiculous contracts. He signed for a discount before, has said time and again he wants to remain in Atlanta for his entire career, has told his agent to take a flying leap in the past. Just what in all of this makes you or anyone else think the Braves stand no chance of resigning him? In addition, you accuse him of no loyalty. I’d be damned hard pressed to find anyone in baseball more loyal to their team than Andruw Jones.

By RC

November 13, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

Viking, fair points. I still don’t agree on trading Chipper, just because I think taking his offense and leadership off of the team would hurt the younger hitters more than any of us realize. One of his most underrated abilities is to work a count, so much so that he is almost always in the top 5 in MLB in pitches seen per plate apperance. Chipper seeing more pitches = starters getting tired earlier = bullpens coming in soon = more runs because bullpens pitchers aren’t as good as starters. He’s just too valuable to take out of the lineup I think.

By Robert

November 13, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

He fribbles. He dribbles. He bumbles. He stumbles. He is the fool loved and lauded by all

A sick 15 year joke with no end in sight

By Tom

November 13, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

If you traded LaRoche. I would think Scott Thorman would in the 1st base mix. I still like Ryan Freel of the Reds to play LF or 2nd. I like the idea of sending Renteria(he has lost a lot of range in the field.) to the Cubs for ss Cesar Izturis (He is healthy again and was a gold glover) and a couple of minor league pitchers. Then with the extra pitchers you MIGHT have enough to pry Crawford away from Tampa.

By Robert

November 13, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

I’m gone for another week (hold the applause). Am curious to see what if any moves the Braves will make at the winter meetings.

Wont do any good of course. But gotta believe that JS acts in good faith. He just has this one unfortunate blind spot

By Vikingsouth

November 13, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

Lew, I just don’t think so. I’m not saying he’s any different than most players. It’s just that I’ve never any great passion on his part besides some words. He got a good, long-term contartc from the Braves. He could have gotten a better short term deal, but not he security. As for Chipper, I don’t want to saee him go, but he’s on the downhill side of his career as a fielder. Yes, they’d miss him. The cold reality, though, is that he could bring the Braves a great return beacuase of his value to an AL team as a hitter. They need pitching-badly.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

I know what you meant, Robert; sarcasm’s my middle name. The Sarcasm Grinch, in full.

DOB, where would we be without the Onion? Also be sure to bookmark Sportspickle.com. It’s Onion-style stuff (it’s actually written by one of the writers for the onion, and for ESPN’s page 2) but it’s all sports-related. It usually updates on Wednesdays, but you’ll wanna check out the archives.

By GM Wannabe

November 13, 2006 06:24 PM | Link to this

Where is Andruw’s dad. We need him to step in and tell his son that he has made plenty of money and to stay where he is comfortable. Besides isn’t AJ’s wife also from Atl. I’m sure she will have plenty to say about where AJ will play.

By nathan

November 13, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this

This goes to ANYBODY who is complaining about not having enough MONEY to be players in the Free Agent “party”.

Hellooooo! McFly! When has JS EVER been a big player with free agents. DOB pointed out last week that JS covets his draft picks. Which is PROBABLY the biggest reason this run went on for so long. Even though the RUN is over. Who CARES? You don’t need to win your division anymore to make NOISE in the postseason. Look at last year. EVERYTHING that could go wrong DID, and still we were “in the hunt” into September.

Our minor league talent pool is what’s kept us from competitive to DOMINANT for the last decade and a half. Yeah, in a perfect world, we’d have more WS titles. But we don’t. So move on.

I can only remember a few times that JS has made a big splash in the Free Agent pool, since the run began. Obviously it started with veterans: TP, Bream, Belliard (was Nixon a trade?), and so forth. But since then: GREG MADDUX. Obviously a BIGGY. The next one was the Big Cat. I suppose Walt Weiss could count, but to me that wasn’t much more than a lateral move to make up for Blauser leaving.

Other than that, EVERYBODY that we’ve “added” to the roster that wasn’t drafted or at least “developed” in our system as been aquired via TRADE. If I’m forgetting some BIG NAME player, let me know. I just can’t recall anybody.

JS is the best in the business at trading “nothing” for somthing. About the only one that “got away” appears to be Wainwright - I suppose you could count Dye and Schmidt, but they’ve been up and down, not to mention oft-injured. So how much patience would we have had with them anyhow?

The other thing he does well, is pick guys off of the “scrap heap”. Some of these have worked. (Hammond, Wright, Burkett, El’ Presidente’, Julio, etc..) Some have not. (Fick, Caminitti, Albie Lopez - OUCH!, etc..

Kolb is a WHOLE OTHER CATEGORY of “did not work”, but hey. Smoltz wanted to start. What else was he gonna do? Try and pry Rivera away from the Yanks? Yeah, right. Admit it. At the time, it seemed like JS did and admirable job of “replacing” Smoltz in the pen with Kolb. It just didn’t work. MOVE ON.

I tend to complain about stuff like Cox leaving Kolb or Reitsma in their roles too long, just like everybody else. But even there, what was he gonna do? COX TRIED EVERYBODY WITH A PULSE IN THAT ROLL LAST YEAR. THEY ALL FAILED. What else could he have done? While I complain about things that happen DURING the season or during a game. I usually have FULL confindence that JS will do THE BEST THAT CAN BE DONE to make the Braves BETTER during the offseason. Again, admit it. YOU ALL WERE PUMPED WHEN HE AQUIRED HUDSON, WEREN’T YOU? It’s not JS’s fault that Hudson is no-where near the ACE he/we thought we were getting.

I suspect when these winter meetings are over, a few pieces of the puzzle will be in place. But another thing JS is good at is “tweaking” during the winter months, waiting until spring to see what we can “count on” or reasonibly count on from the rookies and youngsters. He then will re-evaluate the situations, and if there is a MOVE to be made that will improve the club before they break camp,(that won’t mortgage the future), he pull the trigger on some “final touches” late in the spring. Then to go one step farther, he and Bobby will analyze the players that break camp through the first 60 games or so and make more moves if neccessary. It’s just getting more and more difficult to make moves early in the season due to everybody still thinking they have a chance. Obviously he made the right move (granted a few months too late) by aquiring Wickman at the deadline. But he couldn’t do it any sooner because Cleveland was still in the race too. Why would they dump their closer if they felt they still had a shot?

Have faith people. I do. But that doesn’t mean you can’t complain once the season starts about the moves he did or didn’t (couldn’t) make.

L8R

By Robert

November 13, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this

That sportspickle.com site is hilarious. Check out there poll for the week

What is the biggest reason NHL attendance is down this year? -fear that spending several hours close to a huge sheet of ice can leave a person open to a nasty cold -the ongoing US-Canada softwood lumber dispute has turned off Americans to all things Canadian -fans are ashamed to support a league that allowed the creation of the new Buffalo Sabres logo -the novelty of the NHL has worn off, what with it being in operation two years in a row now -hockey is not shown in any of the John Mellencamp “Our Country” Chevy Silverado commercials, so the public has come to realize that it is anti-American -the NHL is no longer counting all US fans twice per the old Canadian fan exchange rate -uh, maybe because it’s only November, moron; Of course one month of attendance will be below all of last season’s. Count fairly before you besmirch an entire league, you dick

By Kevin C

November 13, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this

DOB

Since the Padres and Braves are talking about Giles, would they expand the deal for Jake Peavey? The reason is that some other sources are reporting that the Padres might move him, would Giles, Davies, Rameriz work for Peavey and Linebrink? Just a thought. Thanks

By Robert

November 13, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

http://www.sportspickle.com/features/volume5/2006-0712-cox.html

By Troy

November 13, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

Anybody think the cubs migth be interested in Giles, they have promised to do a lot this offseason and I don’t think they have any great options at 2B, if anyone likes the idea lets hear some probable proposals?

By Lew

November 13, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

Tom-First of all, La Roche is only going to be making about $2.5 million this year, even with his arbitration raise. Torii Hunter put up similar numbers to LaRoche’s this year (his average was a bit higher, but HR and RBI are quite similar). Hunter just had his option picked up at $12 million. Bit of a discrepancy? Why would you want to give him up when he will remain cheap for at least 2 more years? Thorman, at least at this point in time, is incapable of replacing LaRoche, either offensively or defensively. As far as Renteria-What the hell else do you want from the guy? He batted .290 with some pop, had a good year defensively AND made the All Star team. For several months he was the steadiest player on the team AND Boston is paying a sizeable chunk of his salary. You think you could possibly replace him with Izturis, who is chronically hurt? Dude, you have damn little sense of equity. As far as picking up Crawford. If you were to go to the Rays website, you would see an article by their executive VP, talking about the future of the team. He states they would listen to offers for Crawford, but would only be amenable to recieving ML ready players in return. They want no more prospects. And they would prefer ML ready pitching. Add to this that Crawford is NOT a leadoff hitter and the whole deal really sounds absurd. We are notgetting Crawford. In regards to Freel-We had one of the best offenses in the NL last year without a conventional leadoff hitter. The Braves have stated repeatedly that a leadoff hitter is not a major need. As far as 2nd base goes, they have enough middle infielders to replace Marcus when he’s gone.

By Troy

November 13, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

Here’s one reunite Bob Howry with Wickman, they were the setup/closer tandem in cleveland 04’-05’. He’s got a good track record, so here it is

Marcus Giles to CHC for Bob Howry & Angel Pagan/Felix Pie?

What do you think DOB

By Troy

November 13, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

Yeah I like that, FORGET Linebrink lets go after Howry!!!!!!!!!!

By Lew

November 13, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

Viking-Why do you think that we need to get rid of Andruw OR Chipper for more pitching. Do you know of some reason why we can’t get what we need without getting rid of anyone other than Giles and Horacio. Do the math Dude. I’ve stated I don’t know how many times that everyone gets too convoluted on this trade stuff. JS will act in a much more linear fashion (the shortest distance between two points, etc.). With all of the dead wood gone (Remlinger, Sosa, Thomson, etc.) approx. $12.5 million will be freed up. Wicky’s resigning and arbitration increases knocks that down to about $5 mil. Smoltz’s contract reduces by $2 mil. Giles would be worth $5mil in arbitration-trade him and you now have $12 mil. Horacio is due a raise to about $4 mil. That now gives you $16 million if he is traded. Deductin the salaries of anyone we get in return (Linebrink or whomever) and you still have a good $10-12 million to fill holes. See? It’s simple and you never had to trade Andruw or Chipper. I just really don’t understand why everyone is so hung up on our salary cap. A couple of small, but effective trades and a discreet purchase or two and we’re good to go.

By Vikingsouth

November 13, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this

Let Giles go. He doesn’t want to be here, he’s injury-prone, and he hit .260 last year. He’s a tough little second baseman, but Linebrink sounds interesting. Not much to lose with a trade for him.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

Giles, Davies and Ramirez for Peavy and Linebrink? Come on, man. So you’re saying basically Davies and Ramirez for Peavy. Think about it.

As someone said earlier, other teams don’t exist to help the Braves win.

VIkingsouth, the “cold reality” is that Chipper is 33, and contrary to your assertion, would not bring a huge return from an AL team. Not until he stays healthy longer than he has in recent seasons. He played 110 games last year.

He’s worth more to the Braves than to most other teams (and he’s worth a lot to the Braves, for his production and his presence). And do you understand they’re not trying to trade him? His name hasn’t come up in one rumor, not even in this day-and-age of unsubstantiated blog rumors and such.

By Lowcountry Bulldawgs

November 13, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Chipper Jones Hall of Fame? Do you not think that since he has not played a full season since 2003 and, you would think this trend will only continue, that his HOF credentials dwindle each passing year? Also taking into account the fact that his generations of players will always have a asterisk by there numbers.We know that CJ has never been mentioned as a user, but with this era a player with very good numbers, will they be given the benefit of the doubt?

By Thomas

November 13, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

Willy Taveras, a top prospect, and Chad Qualls or Dan Wheeler for Andruw Jones. 13.5 million free, now we can get Glavine. Willy Taveras 300AVG 10HR 75RBI 375OBP 65STEALS, Chad Qualls 65apperances 6-2 2.65ERA, Tom Glavine 13-7 3.65ERA, or Andruw Jones 260AVG 50HR 130RBI, and a gold glove. What do you prefer.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Robert, I knew you’d like that one. I actually linked to it here a couple of months ago when it came out but nobody checked it out. This guy (D.J. Gallo) writes every word on the site, does headlines for the Onion and writes at least a couple of hilarious articles for ESPN’s Page 2 every week. My kinda journalist (no offense, Jimmy Smith).

By mariner

November 13, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

I like the Giles for Howry idea. Not sure you could get much more than a one-for-one trade. Howry is signed for 07 and 08 and $4mil per year which is good for the Braves. Maybe the Cubs would be willing to trade him to allow Kerry Wood to be their right handed set-up man. I’m OK with Giles for Linebrink too. But, honestly, I’m a little worried about turning over second base to Prado or Kelly Johnson or whomever. I really like Marcus’ defense and just wish he was more comfortable at lead-off.

By Vikingsouth

November 13, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

When did I ever mention the payroll limit? It is a consideration, but I was talking about getting the most value for 1) a player who will only be signed to an enomously expensive contract and 2) a great but aging player. JS doesn’t run the club on sentimentality. He knows more than you and I put together, Lew. What’s his favorite expression? “You can never have too much pitching.” Very true. How do you think the Braves have stayed competitive all of these years? Smart trades, good evaluation of young talent, and knowing when to let go. In 1987, the Braves were going nowhere. They traded an aging but still effective pitcher named Doyle Alexander to the Tigers, who were fighting for a division title. They traded him for a young righthander in AA. His name- John Smoltz. Nuff sed.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m 33; are you saying some AL blog wouldn’t give up a solid everyday blogger and a couple of clever prospects for me? I’m hurt. BTW, Happy Herman’s is just a good hole-in-the-wall sandwich shop; not something you’d go out of your way for but you can get a good sandwich while you’re waiting for a movie to start or film to develop (that’s the way I discovered it).

By Lew

November 13, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

Viking-What you say may well be true. But why do you think it is necessary to get rid of two of our biggest offensive cogs when you can accomplish your goals without doing so. This doesn’t have a damn thing to do with sentimentality. If not to jettison salary, then why would you want to get rid of these two highly productive players. It makes no sense whatsoever. If Andruw leaves, then he leaves and you deal with it when you must, using the money you would have payed him. As far as Doyle Alexander, no it’s not ‘nuff said. Your comparing apples and pomegranates, Dude. When Doyle was traded, the Braves didn’t stand a snowball’s chance in the Peachtree Road Race. With Andruw and Chipper in 07, we have a chance to regain the division and more. Two different situations. Also, Alexander was not a 10-5 guy. Chipper and Andruw are and they both have stated they would veto trades. You can’t trade them without their permission. So your logic is faulty. The situations are entirely different. Also, Alexander was traded to a contending team during the pennant race. Such is not the case now and when we did have a similar situation in July, nothing of value was offered for either.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

Thomas, not only would they not likely give up that much for a one-year rental, but that also doesn’t “free up” 13.5 million. You’ve got to subtract the salaries of the players you’ve just aquired. Plus, Glavine would likely be demanding an outrageous contract. Let’s not forget who we’re dealing with, here.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 13, 2006 07:42 PM | Link to this

has anyone made sure chipper has his flu shot? can you get a flu shot while riding the range? can you ride in the saddle with a sore rump? should the flu settle in a toe would it be fatal? this journalist remembers that chipper lost 15-20 pounds with the flu last year and was so weak he had to cut down on spring training so it would not interfere with golf and the daytona 500. chipper was so weak he could not smile for lew’s portrait photo. we must see that he does not contract the flu this year. perhaps he could become bubble boy? and where would we find such a bubble? and would his chin whiskers pierce the bubble? much to be considered.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 13, 2006 08:09 PM | Link to this

now, more to consider … if chipper catches the flu and accidently gives it to laroche and laroche is out a huntin’ and forgets to report to spring training and the flu settles in chipper’s toe and bobby dews is no longer with the team and eddie perez refuses to do the toe-massage thing chipper favors … well, the team is going to have problems from the get-go. and what if chipper spreads the flu to older players like jordan and wicky? and what if wicky develops stomach flu? oh, the humanity!

avoid the flu. wash hands frequently. do not put fingers in eyes, mouth or nose … oh, the humanity! bobby is certain to get the flu! that’s chipper, laroche, wicky, and bobby. somebody better get ‘em some shots before it is too late.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 08:09 PM | Link to this

Grinch, you’re only 33? I figured you for an older wiser gent. Just a punk kid, huh? (kidding)

By journalist jimmy smith

November 13, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

33 dawg years

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

Thomas, how can you project a .375 OBP for a guy who’s had .325 and .333 OBPs in his first two seasons? I mean, he might do it, but…

Oh, and 10 homers for a guy with four career home runs in 1100-plus at-bats?

Hey, I like Taveras, but that’s a bit optimistic. He’s a high-average hitter with no pop and a terrible K-to-walks ratio, but he runs well and plays CF. That’s all.

By Mike

November 13, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this

The only way the Braves will improve is for the team to be sold to an owner who cares.

By Mark Bowman

November 13, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this

Why not just xerox my whole column next time, O’Brien.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

Lowcountry, yes, I’m pretty certain Chipper will go to the Hall of Fame, given his overall excellent offensive numbers, including eight consecutive 100-RBI seasons, third-most homers by a switch-hitter, only switch-hitter with at least a .300 average and at least 300 homers, etc., plus an MVP award and high profile throughout his career while playing for winning teams.

Not to mention, he just finished a season with a 1.005 OPS, which tells me he’s far from finished. Even if he barely plays 110-130 games a year or moves to a DH role someday, I’d be he’ll hit another 50-60 homers before he’s done and drive in another 200-300 runs.

By Troy

November 13, 2006 08:25 PM | Link to this

What’s wrong with punk kids I’m 22

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this

Yeah, so what’s the use even talking about the Braves, right, Mike? Let’s just shut ‘er down and be miserable. Better yet, let’s talk about the Falcons, since they have the perfect owner, right? Oh, wait, they’ve done what the past couple of weeks? Nevermind.

By Troy

November 13, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

I agree lets all be optimistic about Chipper, every year we all count him out like he’s done. But the guy can still play, granted he gets hurt a ton but if drop that mizuno contract and get some real shoes his feet might not give him so many problems

By Haywood Jablome

November 13, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

Why does Marcus for Linebrink leave me with a slightly hollow feeling? I think DOB is exactly right when he infers that Kevin Towers is frantically pumping up the Linebrink hype-machine. If the Padres think that Cla Meredith is a better option than Linebrink, why don’t we just ask for Cla Meredith?

By nathan

November 13, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

I’ll assume by nobody challenging my “JS doesn’t dabble into the free agent market” comment, that I didn’t forget about any MAJOR signings.

DOB….any news from the winter meetings yet? Huh,……HOW BOUT NOW!

Sorry, I LOVE this time of year. Not to mention I’m a little tired of all of us arguing about who we MIGHT or SHOULD aquire. I’m looking forward to arguing about who we DID or DIDN’T aquire. :)

By wowbobwow

November 13, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

give me craig counsell. give me dave roberts. please god please. we all saw that the braves offense would completely shut down last year when guys weren’t hitting home runs. when was it that guys wouldn’t hit home runs? yes, of course- againgst the more dominant pitchers in the league (or some talented rookies that the hitters hadn’t gotten any good looks at yet). we already have pop. we need veteren guys like roberts and counsell to add to what we already have. guys that do all of the other things that WINNING baseball teams do…… “this is a simple game. you throw the ball. you catch the ball. you hit the ball……..”

By nathan

November 13, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

Can Michael Vick hit?

I bet he’d be a good leadoff hitter, if he could.

It’s too bad Langerhans took a step backwards last year. Cuz, defensively he way above adequate out in LF. But hard to steal bases and score runs if you can’t hit. How’s the old saying go? “You can’t steal 1B!”

By journalist jimmy smith

November 13, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

and if it is the bird flu should chipper be traded to the cardinals?

By Troy

November 13, 2006 09:09 PM | Link to this

I like Dave Roberts and I hope we make a strong push for him, but I think he’ll probably get a better deals from otehr teams plus I thought I read that he would like to stay on the west coast

By Troy

November 13, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this

Would anyone be open to Luis Gonzalez playing LF for one year? He’s a great guy and could bring a lot to the club, and he is still capable of having a decent year (52 doubles, 15 HR, 73 RBIs, only 58 Strikeouts last year)

By Troy

November 13, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

DOB- Is it just me or does it seem like the Braves Struke (that looks wierd) out an awful lot last year and at really horrible times. Is that bound to improve, merely because the young guys will learn the league, pitchers, umpires etc. Or is that something that the Braves should address from a coaching standpoint

By wowbobwow

November 13, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

other positive benefits of craig counsell for the 07 braves include……1.)he can play ss and 3b in the blink of an eye. chip and edgar may miss a game or two don’t you think? 2.)been around awhile. alot of teams with alot of great players. probably learned a thing or two from those guys along the way. could share said knowledge with a willy aybar or a martin prado or a yunel escobar. it’d be like having an extra coach on the team. 3.)been around a while, alot of teams with alot of great players. probably learned a thing or two ABOUT those guys along the way. it’d be like having a double agent on the team. hypothetical situation………we’re playing boston in interleague (or the world series maybe?), curt schilling is on the mound, camera pans in on the braves bench. counsell and chipper are having an intense discussion while paying close attention to schilling’s release point. they’ve figured something out………. 4.)2 world series rings on 2 different teams. sometimes it’s not the superstars. 5.) CLUTCH CLUTCH CLUTCH. 6.)he’s a real baseball player. poor man’s pete rose, but with good character. 7.) cool sounding name.not great, but solid. got the alliteration going on there. i really believe that players that have cool sounding names hold a huge psychological advantage over those that do not. these guys hear their names so much over the course of their baseball careers, that it’s gotta have some effect. in the moment of truth, how are you gonna react if your name is harvey wenkelstein versus, say, vladmir guerrero. this was one of the main reasons i was so bummed about the betemit trade. wilson betemit is infinitely more cool sounding than willy aybar.

By Paul

November 13, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this

What about taking a shot with Foulke? Change of address would probably do wonders for him (look at Renteria). He was very effective with the A’s and his first year with the Sox. Maybe he would consider being a setup man. Always did like Taveras. He reminds me of Willie Mays Hayes.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

Troy, yes the Braves struck out a lot last year, fifth-most in NL behinds Phils, Pirates, Brewers and Marlins (not in that order). They had some big-K guys in Frenchy, Andruw, LaRoche … even Giles struck out 105 times in 550 at-bats. But Pendleton and Cox don’t want to take away guys’ aggressiveness, so they don’t stress it as being an overly important concern.

And the reason that “Braves Struke out” looks weird is because you’ve apparently created a new hybrid language all your own.

It’s, um, “struck out,” not Struke out.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

DOB, I am a virtual fountain of wisdom…except when I’m busy engaging in wanton folly. :-) As for the Falcons, it isn’t the owner’s fault yet. He spent as much as could be spent under the cap last off-season to make sure the Falcons had a shot at winning it all this year. They have been absolutely riddled with injuries to key players (especially on defense), perhaps more so than any other team in the NFL, and they have been undercoached. The former he can do nothing about; the latter we’ll see about in the off-season. The special teams coach is the only one worth retaining. He has not, by any means, been an unconcerned cheapskate.

wowbobwow, I hear Aybar has plenty of upside.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

Because, Mark, we don’t use Xerox machines anymore. E-mail or simply cutting and pasting would do.

By Troy

November 13, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

sorry had a brain fart

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

Grinch, of course he hasn’t been a cheapskate. I think Blank’s a great owner, I really do. I was just pointing out that way too much emphasis is put on ownership by some fans. If Time Warner gave the Braves a $100 mill payroll instead of $80 mill, nobody would talk about them being bad owners. Who cares who owns the team, long as they spend money wisely? Since fans can’t influence who the team is sold to, why worry about it or let it get you down? I mean, the guy who wrote, “Until the Braves get a new owner who cares, they’re going to stink,” or something to that effect … come on, that’s just so inaccurate, and such a downer, to boot.

As for injuries … come on, man. The Falcon have had an inordinate amount of them, but if you recall, so did the Braves.

By brian

November 13, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this

nice post DOB - get the rumors started and people flock here.

This is a different Brian but also one who has thought that the Angels from wherever they are would be a good fit for Andruw and the Braves.

I agree though that the only way for us to get good value is for the other team to be able to negotiate an extension with Jones. He would get his money and security without the injury or bad season risk. Boras may be given lattitude to discuss options behind the scenes. Agents determine a lot of the high profile trades, correct?

By Troy

November 13, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

DOB- What do you think of Giles to CHC for Howry?

By Alan

November 13, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

I think it’s inevitable that Giles will be traded, and probably to the Padres, but I agree with those who say Linebrink in return is not enough. Giles is an everyday player, a hustler, with pop, and he’s a better-than-average defender. He’s also been an all-star, and he’s 28 - in the prime of his career. Linebrink is a good pitcher, yes, but he’s a reliever. Trading an everyday player even-up for just about any reliever not named Rivera would not be a fair trade. Last summer, nobody wanted to trade utilityman Wilson Betemit for Linebrink. Is anyone suggesting that Betemit is as good a player as Giles? Also, I would have to be overwhelmed to part with Andruw. The proposed trade with Houston is decidedly underwhelming. I, too, like Taveras, but he’s no Andruw - absolutely no power - and Qualls/Wheeler would not be much of an upgrade over the guys the Braves had last year. On the other hand, I do like the proposed trade of Renteria to the Astros for Everett and either Qualls or Wheeler or perhaps Lidge - who has terrific stuff and very likely will benefit from a change in scenery. Obviously, if the Braves were to trade Renteria, they’d be able to hang onto Giles. In any case, I can hardly wait for the action which is sure to come very soon. The updates are great, David. Thanks.

By flbravesgirl

November 13, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

jimmy, flu shots go into the arm, not the rear. And it’s not a live virus, so you don’t have to put Chipper in a bubble.

Grinch, about your “burly, not svelte” description. How’s your arm? Sounds like you have the physique for the Braves bullpen. How do we arrange a tryout?

By Troy

November 13, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

Alright someone agrees with me that trading Renteria, should at least be an option. Just an option, we have two young studs Yunel Escobar, & Elvis Andrus coming up at SS, its just me but I don’t like our in-house options at 2B Aybar at this point is no more than a decent utility guy and Prado I don’t know just don’t see much in him.

The thing is that this deal really makes sense on both ends, lets face it the Astros desperately need to upgrade their offense and Edgar could really flourish in that park he’s a lot better hitter than Everett. And with all this talk about going back to pitching and defense, well it doesn’t get any better than Everett on defense, that guy is highly regarded as the BEST defensive SS in baseball, he should have won the Gold glove (Omar Vizquel is by no means a bad choice but a lot of folks think it might be time to pass the torch). The astros have 3 quality relivers that might be expendible (Qualls, Wheeler, Lidge) any of those guys would be tremendous to our pen. And it would likely create a little payroll flexibility. Don’t hate on me I like Renteria, and a lot of us like Giles too I think everyone is in agreement that JS HAS to be a little creative and that is just the way I was thinking It is a creative option

By Rosalynn

November 13, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

What’s all this talk of flu? Jimma says there is no reason for anyone to have the flu anymoah. One must simply carry a little bottle of hand sanitiza around everywhere. Say, for instance, Jimma is at the ballgame and that nice boy, Chippa Jones comes by and wants to shake Jimma’s hand - well, Jimma shakes Chippa’s hand and then a Secret Service man squirts a little hand sanitiza right in Jimma’s palm. Anotha Secret Service agent rubs Jimma’s palms togetha - and bingo! Jimma will not catch the flu! One time Miz Lillian had the flu so bad that Jimma had the Secret Service drive her all the way to Atlanta to see that nice doctor at the Medical Arts Building downtown. Well, he put the moves on Miz Lillian (she was quite a looker) and before long that doctor had the flu, too. Can you say flu, too five times real fast? Neitha can I. Oh, well, I hear Jimma callin me - it is bedtime. He probably wants to play submarine commanda again tonight. Did I mention Jimma has his own submarine? Goodnight everyone. Goodnight Chippa. Goodnight Maryanne. Goodnight John Boy. Goodnight Bobby Cox whereva you ah. “Yes, Commanda, heah I come … “

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this

DOB, my God, dude; have you really been paying attention? Abraham, the biggest off-season aquisition has played all of two games (during which he was completely dominating). He’ll be out for at least the next two. Kerney (Abe’s book-end and the motor of the defense) is out for the season. Rod Coleman (the third of four pro-bowl starters on the DL) is banged-up. Both starting guards on the OL are out, and rookie free-agents are in their place. Norwood, our backup running back and the biggest home-run-threat besides Vick, is out. Webster (who sucks, but is still the starting LCB) is out, as is his much better replacement, Kevin Mathis (who’s career may be over now due to a second spinal injury). This puts a rookie who couldn’t earn it in the starting LCB spot. Our all-pro punt returner is now the nickel back. Not good, Hank. Sorry, but the Braves have NEVER been this injured. This Falcons team looks like the walking wounded from “All Quiet on the Western Front,” with everyone blindfolded and having one arm on the shoulder of the man marching in front of him. That said, they’re still undercoached. The top recievers aren’t hurt and they’re dropping big passes right and left. Passing plays are being called for when running plays should be, and vice-versa. BLAH! I agree otherwise with your analogy, though. How many owners who “care” like, say, Daniel Snyder for the Redskins spend all kinds of money and still put out a product that sucks? Or how many who don’t give a rip but who have good GM’s and/or good luck put out a good product and don’t hear squat from the fans despite their uninvolvement? Hmm.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

I should’ve qualified that statement about comparative Braves injuries with “and had a salary cap to prohibit replacement.” Blank went out last week despite the cap and aquired Lance Shulters, a pretty big free-agent at safety to bolster the secondary. I bet if there were no cap, Blank would sign whoever McKay would tell him to to plug the holes.

FBG, I’m much better suited to middle linebacker (the quarterback of the defense). My arm is pretty accurate but not much velocity (happens to those with stubby arms…). Still got great instincts and plenty of smack-power, though. And I could hang with any of them at a buffet. :-)

By journalist jimmy smith

November 13, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

flabravesgirl, don’t tell chipper he can take it in the arm, okay? and don’t tell him about the bubble either, okay? maybe we can get him to blow his own bubble.

By TNJimmy

November 13, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this

Braves should take a leap and go for this:

Trade Hudson, Giles and Langerhans/Diaz/ or Kelly Johnson to the Red Sox for Manny Ramirez (maybe a little cash too). The Red Sox need a SP and 2B, and they could finally get Manny off of their back. JS seemed to work well with the Red Sox last year. Our projected lineup could be (not necessarily in batting order): Aybar/Prado/Escobar Renteria Ramirez Andruw Chipper McCann Laroche Franceur PITCHER

That would be a pretty formidable lineup. Our SP would still be Smoltz, Hampton, James, Davies and Ramirez, maybe even resign Thonmpson in case someone goes down.

The bullpen should be better this year, just with Wickman closing plus a little extra experience.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

FBG, have you moonlighted as an LPN, or at least a former biology major? I’m trying to create a profile. As far as my build, I make sure the beer-gut never compromises the effectiveness of the rest of the moving body. When I lose a step (from where I am, not from my potential), I’ll increase my workouts accordingly. Actually, I may be starting up at West Georgia next semester. Based on what I saw them do against Valdosta State the other night on CSS, I may consider losing 30-40 pounds and giving them a major upgrade at ML. They have a most interesting psychology dept.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 13, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this

flabravesgirl, don’t tell chipper he can take it in the arm, okay? and don’t tell him about the bubble either, okay? maybe we can get him to blow his own bubble.

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

TNjimmy; that’d be great if they go for it. Doubt they would, though.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this

Grinch, yes I’ve been paying attention. The injuries have been devastating for the Falcons, no doubt.

Not to compare them, because that’s really senseless, and it’s the Braves’ fault for relying so much on a couple of guys with injury concerns entering the season.

But nevertheless, they were counting heavily on Boyer and Foster to fill significant roles in the pen, and both were injured in the spring and lost for the entire season.

They were counting on Thomson to have a strong year _ or to be trade bailt _ after picking up his option; he was injured in spring and then off and on all season.

They were counting on Davies to supplant Thomson in the rotation after a strong spring training, and Davies ends up with a torn groin so serious that it required surgery; he was terrible after coming back.

They were counting on Ramirez to have a bounce-back year after his shoulder woes in 2005, and instead he had various injuries and was lost for half the season when you add it all up.

They were counting on Reitsma to be their closer _ hey, I didn’t say they don’t make occasional mistakes _ and he produces the worst couple of months of his career, then we find out he had an elbow injury that required season-ending surgery.

They were counting on Chipper to at least play 140 games after a couple of injury-plagued seasons, and he slips on a wet field in week 1, hurts a knee and ankle and ends up having several injuries, a couple of which he believes were compensatory-type problems, including the side strain from relying too much on his upper body when his leg was hurt. He plays 110 games and in those 110 games puts up prorated numbers that would have made it one of the best seasons of his career if he’d played, say, 145.

That’s not to mention the 20 games Giles missed due to injuries, the games Renteria missed with side strain, the DL stint for McCann with the knee injury.

That’s three key relievers lost for all or most of the season, three starting pitchers lost for half the season or more, and every one of their veteran hitters except Andruw lost for significant stretches.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, should the Braves ask the Red Sox if they want those guys in exchange for Manny, or just do the trade and tell Theo and the gang after it’s over?

By geauxbraves2000

November 13, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this

Hello all. Hot stove time, the 2nd best time of the year. The first best of course being opening day.

I’ve read some things lately, and here’s my take:

Trade LaRoche? Why? .285/32/90 - Great numbers, one of the best defensive 1st baseman in the league and he’s cheap.

Trade AJ? Why? .262/41/129 - Just because there’s a chance he won’t sign next year? Come on, there is NO ONE out there that could replace his skills and possibly only a couple that could replace his numbers. He may not be a high average hitter, but he’s still a feared hitter. He IS the best CF in the game, there’s no one that could replace his defense. I’d rather only have him one more year than not.

Trade Renteria? Why? .293/14/70 - The Braves obtained a excellent player in Renteria and he’s not costing them that much. His defense is more than adequate and he is an excellent #2 hitter.

Trade Chipper? Why? .324/26/86 - He is the face of this franchise, look at the $$ he gave up to help his team. He may be getting older and injury prone, but he is a team player, and he is a threat at the plate.

That is a whole lot of numbers between those four, .291/113/375, to just be giving up.

I don’t like the idea of trading Giles at all, but I do understand why.

This team is very well built, they do have a couple of holes to fill, but they don’t need a major overhaul.

All these opinions are of course just that, opinions. If I ran the team they’d be lucky to win 10 games.

Geaux Braves!!

By The Grinch

November 13, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

Point taken, DOB, it does look like a comparable injury list on paper. I won’t get into the comparative values and salaries of the injured players; it’s a different situation. But not by much, and I see what you mean. Time for a snack.

By Jamie in Richmond

November 13, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

DOB, In your original blog you mention the prospect of Atl potentially acquiring more than just draft picks in exchange for AJ should he leave at the end of 07. I may have misinterpreted the new agreement between the players union and the owners, but I thought part of the new agreement called for teams to no longer receive compensation for lost free agents. Could you clarify this for me? Thanks…

By johnpstotts@yahoo.com

November 14, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this

Grinch what up baby…? Just got done watching drinking a couple of screwdrivers and watching MNF….Grabowski sucks…I dunno why ESPN likes him….

Good article, D.O.B. I’m seriously glad you Do what U do in da offseason…Without you this site would be boring, wit only the vent…

And good word on Reeksma, He needs to be out of the organization next spring….

I will be on philly.com’s forum so I won’t respond in about 10 minutes or so…

By flbravesgirl

November 14, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

My mom’s an RN, Grinch, and my sister also works in health care (in the business side) so I pick up a lot from the shoptalk.

TNJimmy, I don’t think “Manny-being-Manny” would go over too well in Bobby’s clubhouse. I know he makes annual trade demands but Boston is the perfect place for him, no one else would put up with all his quirks. (I’m not saying Manny is a bad guy, just that he really marches to a different drummer.)

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

Oh yea, It sucks that Kerney’s out, big blow….

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 12:07 AM | Link to this

Grinch what up baby…? Just got done watching drinking a couple of screwdrivers and watching MNF….Grabowski sucks…I dunno why ESPN likes him….

Good article, D.O.B. I’m seriously glad you Do what U do in da offseason…Without you this site would be boring, wit only the vent…

And good word on Reeksma, He needs to be out of the organization next spring….

I will be on philly.com’s forum so I won’t respond in about 10 minutes or so…

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 12:08 AM | Link to this

Jamie, Type A free agents still draw draft picks as compensation. It’s just the lesser free agents affected by the new rules.

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this

4 All U chipper hater’s out dere, That dude is sure hall of fame material… 8 years straight with 100 rbis, at an infield position, R U kidding me…No doubt he’s a hall of famer, but I still love the old Chipper especially during his full rookie year in 95…

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 12:14 AM | Link to this

D.O.B. I know You are not a RocketShip…and since its 4 months away, but who do you think should be in leftfield next year, and what do you think the braves will do about the leftfield situation…?

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this

T’hawkin’ stotts, Gradkowski’s a rookie thrust into a starting job with a coach who’s made his living coaching veteran QB’s who’re past their prime physically but are savvy enough to understand his play calling. Bad situation for both. They’ll be noticeably better next year, though. Trust me (and that’s a team I loathe). I just know my enemy.

FBG, I thought so. One of the six four year degrees I almost have is in biology. I wanted to be a Forensic Pathologist, but I found I didn’t have the discipline for medical school. I may still moonlight as an embalmer if my writing doesn’t catch on more (though I feel it will).

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 12:22 AM | Link to this

D.O.B. I had no Idea that Counsell was that old, I like the dude as well, he reminds me of Fernando Vina/David Eckstein, in that they play the game well, and they go out 100%….I guess that’s why he’s been such a pest against us in da past….

Oh yea BTW, But I dunno why I have the old Will Smith Son “Girls ain’t nuthin but trouble” song stuck in my head…

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 12:25 AM | Link to this

Was tonite’s Monday Nite Football game horrible or What…Sunday Nite has taken over as the best football nit on TV Now… I knew ESPN Would F-C-K up Monday Nite Football…

Grinch Ur right about Grabowski in Ur last post, but I have no Idea why ESPN likes this dude so much…

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 12:26 AM | Link to this

T’Hawkin, it’s just too early to know. I’d only be guessing, and no point in it. Might not better in a week, but maybe not until winter meetings.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 12:27 AM | Link to this

Meant to say might “know” better in a week. Regarding left field.

Man, the free agency period just started Sunday, and the GM meetings just started today. I’ve heard nothing about Braves LF, other than they do have interest in Dave Roberts, presumably to play LF as long as Andruw’s back, and from what I’m told Andruw will be back.

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 12:28 AM | Link to this

Well Grinch, I can kinda guess, why U didn’t have the discipline 4 medical school…lol…

Oh yea I’m coming down to the “A” I hope 4 Christmas… I’ll have to stock up on Braves gear, and Hit up Buckhead 4 sho…

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 12:33 AM | Link to this

Yea D.O.B. I think Its too early also, I might hafta wait til about Christmas to see whats gonna happen bout that

Aight 4 all da braves fans, This probably won’t happen, but does anyone want Kid Klesko back…?

By flbravesgirl

November 14, 2006 12:33 AM | Link to this

A writer moonlighting as an embalmer? Sounds like a TV show.

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this

Where you at now, dude? Thought you’d been here the whole time…as for ESPN, they say and do what they can to make the game/rivalry look or seem more effective. Lot of money involved there.

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this

Oh yea I was really suprised to see Ramirez win Rookie of da year… I thought It waoud be either Zimmerman or Uggla….Uggla especially since ESPN loves him…I have seen him on cold pizza a couple of times…

BTW Dana Jacobsen on Cold Pizza is Bad…!

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this

Oh yea, Why Da hell was Jeff Gordon on MNF tonite, I hate it when they do those stupid press interview, as well as all those sideline reporters, Just call the f-c-k-n game, Shyt!…Dizam I need to settle down…but for real though ESPN sucks as much as TBS…

By Head Coach

November 14, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this

With the new labor agreement , then considering the windfall revenue(5 billion and climbing) pouring into MLB and the somewhat mediocre free agent market , teams are going to be overpaying for pitching this offseason. I agree that a trade is the most likely scenario that JS will persue. Giles , Thorman , Salty and Escobar are the most likely to be traded. It looks like position players for pitching will do the trick in trade.

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 12:49 AM | Link to this

FBG, at any given time I have several interesting TV show ideas going on both in my head and in my life. I need an agent. Time around the Grinch is never boring, and I live alone. :-)

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this

Night, all; got an early morning…

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 01:54 AM | Link to this

Head coach, thanks for reminding me of Thorman. Definitely could be involved in a trade, but haven’t heard any teams interested just yet. That’s one of those that usually comes without notice, or as a throw-in part of a trade.

By DOB Fan

November 14, 2006 06:07 AM | Link to this

It seems like emerging powerhouses, especially in the AL have good young pitchers. I don’t see anyone in the Braves minor league system, especially power arms, that could have an impact in the next year or two.

Is the pantry bare at least for the next few years for any impact pitchers?

By Head Coach

November 14, 2006 06:29 AM | Link to this

no problem DOB , I’m just trying to keep my head in the game. On another note: Gregor Blanco is tearing it up in the Dominican winter league with a .352 batting AVG.

By Head Coach

November 14, 2006 06:37 AM | Link to this

Woops , I should have said “The Venezuelan winter league” thats where Blanco is playing at the moment.

By Thomas

November 14, 2006 07:10 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Well I was overexagerated in the homeruns and RBI’s, but I still think he can bat 300AVG, 65STEALS, and have a 375OBP. He had a 365OBP the second half this year, plus he is only 25. His second half numbers were 308AVG 1HR 10RBI, 20STEALS, and 365OBP, plus he had the second longest hitting streak this season.

By Chuckles D

November 14, 2006 08:03 AM | Link to this

Sounds like journalism to me. Thanks for the speculation.

By Shaun

November 14, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this

O’Brien and Thomas,

Here’s the Baseball Think Factory’s ZiPS projections on Taveras:

.290 AVG/.338 OBP/.364 SLG

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/2007zipsprojectionshoustonastros/

If Taveras is really only 25, I don’t think it’s out of the question for him to post a OBP over .360 in the near future. Sure, his career OBP is only .329 but he’s still likely a few years away from his peak years; that OBP is likely to rise.

Also, based on defensive stats and reputation, it seems Taveras is one of the better CF in the game.

I don’t think Taveras is a future HOFer or anything, but he’s definitely one of the game’s most underrated (by most) players.

By Jeff

November 14, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this

Of course, I have no inside track, but I still think Andruw is on the block, very quietly. Look, there’s no upside to keeping him. As DOB mentioned, the Braves’ payroll really has declined over the past few seasons when you factor inflation and other teams boosting their payrolls. The Braves can’t afford Andruw, so he’s gone after 2007, if he stays.

Schuerholz and Houston won’t cut a deal because Houston doesn’t want a rent-a-player, and I don’t know if they have the bucks to sign Andruw long term. Jones would certainly like the climate in Houston: hot and humid, and he’s said climate may be a factor.

But the teams with money—Dodgers, Yankees, Bosox, Angels, Mets, maybe, Giants—are more likely the teams who will be in the hunt for Andruw after 2007. With the exception of the Mets, it makes sense to try to shop Andruw to one of these teams now and get something in return.

Schuerholz knows that he’ll have to work with Jones and Boras to make a deal work, given that Andruw has veto power. But a trade to a team that Andruw’s willing to play for in 2007 works to his advantage. How? 1) There is no guarentee that he’ll have the career year he wants in 2007 for the big long term contract thereafter; 2)Injury. If he’s injured, or suffers smaller injuries througout the season, good bye big pay day. Given his knees and weight, not unreaistic.

So, why not accept a deal to one of the teams you’re likely to end up on anyway? And make a long term contract one of the conditions for accepting the swap and get on with your career.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this

DOB

Can you explain to me how Chuck James didn’t get 1 SINGLE VOTE - NOT EVEN A 3rd PLACE VOTE for rookie of the year?

I didn’t honestly expect him to win it, or even come close. But I find it hard to believe that starting 18 games (approximately half a season - didn’t Justice win the award with a HALF season’s stats?), and going 11-4 with a 3.78 ERA, wouldn’t at least grab ONE WRITER’S attention to garnish at least one 3rd place vote.

I mean do these guys just vote for the guys they see the highlights of on ESPN, or are they actually given a list (or dig one up themselves to get the “scoop” on who did what, and who maybe flew under the radar?

Like I said. Hadn’t heard his name even being mentioned with the others all season or leading up to the award. But I finally just looked at the VOTE TOTALS this morning and was a little taken back that he wasn’t even garnered ONE STINKIN VOTE!

Oh well, maybe that will allow him to fly under the radar again this upcoming season. Let the other teams worry about Smoltz and Hudson (licking their chops is more like it with Tim), then Chucky will mow em’ down!

L8R

By Shaun

November 14, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I agree. Doesn’t really make too much sense to me why the Astros would give up a solid, young CF for an expensive guy they may only have for one year. I think the only way the Astros trade Taveras for AJ is if the Braves throw in a prospect; and the Astros would probably have to throw in a setup man for the Braves to agree to throw in a prospect. I don’t think such a trade would make sense for the Astros unless they can get Salty or someone else who’s almost certain to become a good major leaguer. And I don’t know if the Braves should give up AJ and someone like Saltalamacchia for Tavares and Qualls or Wheeler.

By Voice of Reason

November 14, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

Good morning to all!

Jeff, I think AJ to LA would make alot of sense on several levels. First, LA has money to spend and an unexpected outfield (not to mention power) slot to fill. Having a new found extra $11M to spend doesn’t hurt either. And, I believe I’ve heard something about a nice climate there..? Also, LA has some good young talent (maybe Ethier/Broxton/prospects) that might could be had for an AJ type. (They do love their stars in LA.)

I’m not playing GM as much as stirring the pot, but I’d love to see the thoughts on this…

Also, I’ve been singing Counsell’s praises for some time. Not only would he fit nicely into the leadoff spot, he couldn’t repeatedly and habitually kill us on the other side…

By Shaun

November 14, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Voice of Reason,

I don’t know if the Dodgers would be interested in AJ. It’s possible. I know they have plenty of top prospects but I don’t know if they have any CF prospects. They signed a lot of veterans to short term deals so that they can get their prospects up in a few years. I don’t know if they want to trade any for AJ. I think the Red Sox taught everyone that trading prospects for veterans may not be a great idea, even really good veterans.

By larry

November 14, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this

Living in So. Cal and being a lifelong Braves fan (since 1957) and Angel fan, I somewhat agree with Brians trade, (only if Andrew seemingly can not be kept). My idea would be Jones for Figgins and not Santana but John Lackey. Leadoff, center fielder and stud young pitcher.

By Lew

November 14, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

Shaun-Do you seriously think Tavares for Andruw straight up is vaguely equitable? Dude, you have just reached the point of total delusion.

By Shaun

November 14, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

nathan,

There were a lot of good rookies who played the entire season. No matter how good a player is, he isn’t going to garner much support if he only plays half a season and there are plenty of solid candidates that played virtually everyday for the whole season.

Speaking of rookies, the 2005 draft could go down as one of the best ever. Look at just the top hitters in the first round: Justin Upton, Alex Gordon, Jeff Clement, Ryan Zimmerman, Ryan Braun, Troy Tulowitzki.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 14, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

DOB this journalist loves you man! Oh, the Hu-MANity! XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOX’s for you man!

By Lew

November 14, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

People- Andruw is not going to be traded. Spend your time dealing with realistic scenarios like Giles or Horacio being traded. Andruw won’t accept a trade. He said so. His agent said so and JS has said he will not make any deals that will tear the team apaprt, which a trade for Andruw would do. Even trying to shop him will start a firestorm. GIve it up. As far as Tavares-you think you can replace a 41HR 129 RBI player with some one who hit 1 HR and knocked in 30? Believe me-33 SB in 42 attempts does not replace Andruw. Neither does Chone Figgins who at least hit 9HR and knocked in 62. His 52 SB in 68 attempts doesn’t replace Andruw, either. JS really believes the Braves can retake the division next year. Do you think he would rather attempt it with Andruw or one of the others. That was a retorical question. We already know the answer. Time to return to earth orbit. If Andruw leaves for free agency, then replace him at that time.

By Shaun

November 14, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

Lew,

I never said that Taveras for AJ is equitable. You need to read the post carefully and I should have been more clear. The Braves would want more and the Astros would want a younger player in addition. A straight up trade doesn’t make sense for either team. The Braves wouldn’t be getting enough and the Astros would be getting someone more expensive possibly for only one year.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 14, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

and who is the journalist that is going into the panda pen to write stories and take photos for the ajc?

By Lew

November 14, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

Shaun-I take back my delusional comment. I didn’t read your response correctly. Sorry, Dude.

By braves fan

November 14, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Reading many of these posts reminds me of that Seinfeld episode, where George is working for the Yankees and he says “I’ve figured out a way to get Griffey Jr and Bonds in the same outfield, and not really give up that much.” Most fans are great at watching and cheering on their teams, but asking them about serious roster moves is like asking George W. Bush about foreign policy, you just feel silly afterwards. Here’s what is most likely to happen this offseason:

1) Giles will be moved to San Diego for Scott Linebrink. This rumor has been around so long, there has to be some truth to it. Will the Braves or Padres have to throw in something else, who knows? But this deal will happen. SD traded a perfectly good young 2B in Josh Barfield recently. Seemed like a dumb move to me. But it definitely syncs the two teams up on needs and excess parts.

2) Andruw Jones will play the entire season with Atlanta. The Braves will make him an offer, it will be too low, and he will sign elsewhere. The Braves will be the good guys, because they wanted him back, but he was too greedy to stay. Plus they’ll get multiple draft picks in return. That’s the best scenario we can hope for. Because if the Braves actually sign him to a deal he wants, they’ll never have the flexibility to make other moves, unless the new ownership comes in and says they will increase payroll. In any event, don’t expect the Braves to do anything on the Andruw front until the ownership situation is resolved.

3) After November 20th, the Braves will make a one year offer to Tom Glavine and he’ll accept. Tommy wants to reconcile with the Atlanta organization, because he never wanted to leave in the first place. He’ll get at least 10 wins and record his 300th victory where he belongs. The Braves need reliable depth at starting pitching, since Horacio and Davies can not be expected to be healthy for a whole season.

4) John S. will make an unexpected trade that will address the leadoff situation. I’d keep my eye on Carl Crawford from TB. He’s speedy, plays LF and can hit leadoff. He’s only 25 and makes less than $3 million a year. The Braves can send some combination of a pitching prospect, or perhaps Davies or Horacio, and/or maybe Salty. Horacio is good and flashes signs of elite ability, but is inconsistent and is already making a couple million. If he was included it would help offset the salary of Crawford. Salty isn’t going to play catcher as long as McCann is here and healthy. So if he can’t play C, then where? I like how LaRoche has developed at 1B, so that is out. Salty is a pretty big dude, so is he athletic enough to play the OF? I doubt it. And if you expect AJ to leave after 2007, then they won’t be able to have any slouches in LF that AJ used to make up for. 3B? Chipper is here until he retires, and the Braves already have several 3B/SS types like Yunel Escobar that might be his eventual replacement. TB has Dioner Navarro that they got from LA last year, but he’s not the offensive guy that Salty is, plus they can use Salty at DH or 1B there, and he’s a year off at least from being major league ready. I think there is a deal to be made here that could help both teams.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

Shaun

I hear ya. Like I said, I didn’t expect him to win. But some of the other guys that got votes, IMO, weren’t as good as Chucky was.

Here’s the link to the story that has the list.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2660401

I mean come on:

Andre Either 11 HR 55 RBI

Russell Marting 10 HR 65 RBI

Scott Olsen 12-10 with a 4.05 ERA

Matt Cain 13-12 with a 4.15 ERA

Josh Johnson 12-7 with a 3.10 ERA (granted the 3.10 ERA says somthing but…

Chuck James was 11-4 with a 3.78 ERA. He at least deserved to be mentioned with the others and at LEAST get 1 3rd place vote from SOMEBODY.

I suppose since he only played half of a year, people were assuming that the league “hadn’t caught up to him yet”. But he only had 2 LESS wins than Cain, while also havine 8 LESS LOSSES, not to mention the ERA was almost half a run better.

Like I said, with all of the other good offensive numbers put up by rookies last year, Chuck had NO shot. But to not be even MENTIONED with that group of players is a shame.

By Lew

November 14, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

Braves Fan-I agree with much of your assessment, but-1.I think we have an excellent chance of resigning Andruw.2.The Rays have publically stated that they are no longer interested in prospects. They want only ML ready players, preferably pitching. Since Horacio is injury prone and his salary likely to be double that of Crawford, I doubt we’ll be doing business with the Rays. 3. Crawford is a number 3 hitter, not leadoff. 4. The Braves have steadfastly refused to move Salty to another position, so I doubt he figures in the Braves plans except as an addition to a potential trade.

By KC

November 14, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

DOB:

Do you really think Scott Thorman is trade “throw-in” material???

He seemed like a top level prospect to me last year the way he tore up Richmond and showed promise at the big-league level.

By Carroll

November 14, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

DOB: I read somewhere that the Braves might give Eric Campbell a shot at 2B this year…what do you know about that/him?

By CC Rider

November 14, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

DOB, I’d like to put my 2 cents worth in on the Braves needs. Assuming there is no trade for Andruw, the trade of Giles, Ramirez, Thorman, Reitsma, Diaz or Langerhans and perhaps prospects should allow the Braves to fill the setup role (Linebrink, Mike Gonzalez)acquire a starting pitcher (Jason Jennings, Chris Sampson, Jake Westbrook, Wil Ledezma or Jeremy Bonderman if Salty is included). Acquiring 2 of these players would still leave someone between 5 and 10 million dollars to spend depending on your earlier reports where JS said the payroll could be a little more. One player I think that has been overlooked the past couple of years that would gladly take a shot at the leadoff spot, but who is not a traditional leadoff hitter is Dave Delucci. Now before everyone collectively says WHAT! look at what you would be getting. He has averaged 27 homers, .368 obp 70 RBI per 500 ab’s and is a solid leftfielder. The negative is a 2 to 1 K to BB %. So even though he won’t steal bases and put pressure on the pitcher in a tradtional way, he will make them pay (HR) if they pitch him aggressively to keep him off base, plus he could be had for 2 to 3 million a year. If he struggles with lefties you could platoon him with Diaz. The second base position would depend on money leftover. If it is 6 to 7 million, I would consider Ray Durham who had a monster year for San Francisco. If the money left is only 2 to 3 million, sign a Craig Counsell and let him Aybar, Prado and Escobar battle it out. You will either have a veteran starter or veteran bench player. Delucci,Renteria,Chipper,Andruw,McCann,Franceour,Laroache,Durham Smoltz,Hampton,Hudson,James,(Jennings,Westbrook,or Bonderman) Wickman,Linebrink,Yates,McBride,Boyer, Villareal and Another Lefty Bench: Aybar,B.Pena Diaz, Ward and Counsell or rookie

By KC

November 14, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

CC Rider:

Respectfully, I would argue that the Braves don’t need a starting pitcher. If there’s an opportunity to upgrade what already appears to be a solid rotation, then I’m sure they will do so. But adding someone like Jake Westbrook would not constitute and upgrade.

Right now, the Braves rotation is: Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Ramirez, James.

Smoltz has shown no signs of slowing, and hasn’t given the Braves any reason to believe that he’s a health concern for years now.

Mike Hampton will have had the full 18 month recovery time from the Tommy John surgery (unlike the vast majority of pitchers who return from that procedure after only 12 months). Statistically, there is only a 10% chance of Hampton suffering any ill effects whatsoever from the surgery 18 months after the fact. He’ll probably be a little rusty at first, but the Braves are not concerned about him at all (nor should they be).

The Braves expect (not just hope for, but fully expect) a much better season from Tim Hudson. Historically, when excellent pitchers struggle like this for a season in the middle of their prime, they almost always bounce right back.

Chuck James looks like one of the better young lefties in the game.

Horacio Ramirez has the ability to become a legitimate top-of-the-rotation caliber pitcher if he can stay healthy this year. Health is of course a big concern for him, but if he goes down… it’s really not that big a deal. You just bump James up the 4th slot and promote either Davies or Cormier (who went 3.19 ERA as a Braves starter in Sept.) to fill in as the 5th starter.

We don’t need a starter. If a top-tier starter is available (by trade), the Braves will inquire. If not, don’t expect this rotation to change at all the rest of the winter.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

Jeff, trust me, if Andruw Jones is on the trading block, word will get out. No start that prominent stays on the block long without it leaking out. None.

I do agree with you that IF he were to be traded, it’d obviously make sense to make it happen with a team that could work out an extension with him, to make it worth their while to give up talent. But keep in mind, that’s generally not the way Boras operates.

He believes, gambles, trusts, whatever you want to call it, that his prominent clients will have big seasons in walk years and then give themselves the greatest opportunities to cash in on the open market, where Boras can leverage one team against another and come up with offers bigger than anyone but him had imagined possible….

YOU WROTE:

1) There is no guarentee that he’ll have the career year he wants in 2007 for the big long term contract thereafter; 2)Injury. If he’s injured, or suffers smaller injuries througout the season, good bye big pay day. Given his knees and weight, not unrealistic.

LIKE I SAID, Boras doesn’t view it this way. Classic example: Maddux accepting Braves’ arbitration offer for one year. Look what Boras did with Beltran after his huge year with Houston. On and on.

YOU WROTE:

So, why not accept a deal to one of the teams you’re likely to end up on anyway? And make a long term contract one of the conditions for accepting the swap and get on with your career.

YOU’RE ASSUMING Braves would allow him to talk to another team. They might not, whether because they believed they might have a chance to sign Andruw by end of season, say if their payroll were to rise or Andruw were to have a down year, etc. Or they might just decide they’d rather have Andruw play his tail off for them in a walk year and get the most from him in their desire to win a World Series in what COULD BE, again COULD BE, Cox’s and Schuerholz’s final season. (I don’t think it will be, but it could be their last year.) So why would they want to trade Andruw when they’re unlikely to get something back that would help them more that Andruw in the immediate future, for 2007?

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

Nathan, you wrote: DOB, can you explain to me how Chuck James didn’t get 1 SINGLE VOTE - NOT EVEN A 3rd PLACE VOTE for rookie of the year?

I didn’t honestly expect him to win it, or even come close. But I find it hard to believe that starting 18 games (approximately half a season - didn’t Justice win the award with a HALF season’s stats?), and going 11-4 with a 3.78 ERA, wouldn’t at least grab ONE WRITER’S attention to garnish at least one 3rd place vote.

NATHAN, yes I can explain it: The writers all did their due diligence and voted the way they should have, instead of voting based on how James might have pitched in one game against the team they cover, etc.

By that I mean, tell me which of the top-three finishers did James deserve to take a vote from? Was some writer supposed to look at the statistics and determine that James’ performance after joining rotation in the last week of June was better than those three guys, who performed in every-day roles for the entire season? Why?

This was a rare year when a trio of rookies were among the very best every-day players on their teams, including one team (Marlins) in the wild-card hunt until late September.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

Braves Fan, very solid assessment of upcoming months. I agree with most of what you said, at least with likelihood of it (so many things can change so quickly). But I agree with Lew regarding Crawford _ Rays have made it clear they want players, not prospects, for such an elite talent. And I also think Braves fans have a higher view of Davies’ value than most other teams do. I mean, his performance in parts of two seasons, while affected by injuries, has nevertheless been fairly awful more often than not.

KC, no I don’t see Thorman as a “top-level prospect.” By throw-in, I just meant he won’t be the primary part of a significant trade. If he’s involved in a significant trade, it’d be as a secondary piece of said trade. That’s all I meant. But no, he’s not a top-level prospect, in the realm of Salty, Escobar, etc.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Nathan, I saw your later posts after I’d already responded to first one regarding James. Yes, I agree James was as deserving of a vote as a few of those other guys you listed.

But who really cares if you got a couple of third-place votes from some writer who remembered so-and-so doing something great in a game against his team? Or a beat writer who threw a third-place bone to a kid on the team he covers?

I do know that my fellow Braves beat writer Travis Smith voted from Morris News Service, and he voted for the three top finishers in that order. Good for him. He did the right thing, in my opinion. I would’ve voted for those three, too, probably in that same order but definitely for those three in the top spots.

By Rick Roberts

November 14, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

I like Lew’s comments and agree that JS will pull a deal that no one expects. And, I agree that JS won’t pick up free agents at the expense of draft picks—that’s why the system is so deep and talented. However, if the payroll was expanded to $90M, for example, then I would go for an impact free agent. I would really like to see Soriano in a Braves uniform! There are some good ideas on trades—why not get both Linebrink and Howry? Wickman will only be around for one more season. They must find a spot for Kelly Johnson—1B. Trade LaRoche while he is a hot commodity. Thorman to Toronto? I also like Renteria to someone who needs a veteran SS. Players who would make good Braves: Linebrink, Howry, Crawford, Counsell, Figgins, Qualls, Fultz, Gobble, CJ Wilson, Soriano, E. Aybar, E. Santana, Grabow, D. Marte, and Brian Roberts. Not Dave Roberts. Trade bait: Ramirez, Davies, Giles, Renteria, Salty, Escobar, Hudson, Langerhans, Thorman, T. Pena, and LaRoche. I think many of us think both Jones’ should be traded, but it just won’t happen. AJ should go to the Angels and CJ to the Rangers, close to his ranch? He really should be a DH. No way the Braves can re-sign AJ. Anyway, let’s stay close to the internet and see what JS does this week. My bet is two trades.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

KC, I disagree with you on need for a starter. I mean, come on. You can’t seriously want to go into a season feeling comfortable with Davies, Horacio and LANCE CORMIER as possible rotation regulars (I think that’s what you said, right, that Cormier could just step in for an injured pitcher?)

We’re back to 2006 if that happens. You need starters who can give you QUALITY STARTS most nights, guys who can go 6-7 innings or more, take pressure off the bullpen, then if you’ve got a trio of solid guys in the ‘pen you’ve got a good chance to win every night.

You don’t need freakin’ converted starters and young starters still trying to figure things out going 5 innings three days a week.

By Shaun

November 14, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

nathan and O’Brien,

I think there were just a lot of quality pitchers that were up the whole year.

And David Justice did play in 127 games and was an everyday player. I imagine there’s probably some bias in favor of everyday players. Like the MVP, a rookie pitcher would probably have to clearly be better than everyone else to gain enough support to win. This year I think there were just too many good rookie everyday players and plenty of solid pitchers who threw more innings than James so he got lost in the shuffle.

By BravesFaninRockies

November 14, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I’m with you on the “strategery” of trading Andruw. Much as I would love to see the Braves find some way to insure that he won’t walk at the end of next year, his incentives are to stay put. That makes the Braves’ goal to get as much as they can on the field from him in his walk year.

Chipper’s becoming more fragile, Smoltz may not be able to pitch 200+ innings more than another season, Hampton is likely to be most healthy and durable in ‘07 than afterward, and Wicky may stroke out on the mound after a summer of biscuits, fried chicken and sweet tea.

The young players look awesome, but the nucleus is here and it’s getting no younger.

What I’m sayin’ is, the 14-in-a-row streak spoiled a lot of folks, including me. The future may be now.

By Shaun

November 14, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

I am probably biased about Davies—he’s a hometown guy—so keep that in mind as you read this. But his minor league numbers that matter look great—great K/BB ratio, low HR total. Judging by those it looks like he should develop into a very solid major league pitcher. And I think it’s better to judge him by those numbers rather than two seasons at the major league level while he’s still young and possibly injured. Granted, he’s still a young pitcher and young pitchers are far from a sure thing.

I don’t think he’s had any major arm injuries and again, he’s still very young. I would guess he will become at least a solid number three guy. But again that’s very far from a sure thing.

By GeorgetownKid

November 14, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien,

Regarding the possible trade of Giles for Linebrink, are people talking about that being a one-for-one trade?

As a Braves fan, I would want to get more in return for an All-star callibre 2B than a middle reliever. Even a very good middle reliever.

By wg

November 14, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

Wheeler & Tavares? Are you nuts?

By VaBravesfan

November 14, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

Trade time is always kind of exciting, when you throw around all the possibilities. But think about this before we all try to decide who gets traded, released, etc. We were a few blown saves away from the playoffs, in spite of everything that went wrong in 2006. Hopefully, Mr. Wickman can solve that problem. Then if you get to the playoffs anything can happen. Just ask St. Louis, no way they were the best team they just played well for that 2 week stretch.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 14, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

Well back to civilization after a week at the deer camp. Journalist Jimmy, I did not make it to the double dime this week, but I did kill a nice seven point with my bow. No oblique strains when I drew back. He was limping before I shot him, and come to find out he had a CHIPPED TOE….

Grinch, thanks to the Dawgs for wiping out Auburn. Matthew how ‘bout another drumming in the ESPN Spotlight. Mississppi State next. Can they stop the D-Mac attack?

By Bravo Nam

November 14, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

The Grinch

Good term for the Falcons- an “enigma”.

Shaun

Liked your short, succinct post on Cox and JS on the other blog (even if Robert didn’t like it).

Robert

Enjoy your break. Don’t rush back. Maybe wait until your favourite donkey is no longer managing the Braves…then you might be a little more bearable.

DOB

You mentioned a point that I can’t recall anyone raising in the Cox vs. anti-Cox arguments. From what you were saying, Cox maybe adds another $5-$10 mill to the Bravos payroll a year given a certain % of players sign or remain with the Braves for less because of him.

Two questions:

a). Given that good relievers are like hen’s teeth, why on earth are the Padres so keen to shop Linebrink?

b). Reitsma- how many more years are the Braves on the hook for him AND how much will they be paying him in 2007?

I know this sounds crazy, but Reitsma used to be a good pitcher until the Braves made him a closer. If he comes back well from his injury, he may in fact become a very effective and valuable reliever once again, given the reduced pressure and expectations upon him.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

DOB

Sorry man. I guess I wasn’t paying attention to the voting system. I glanced and thought they were just showing the guys who got 1st, 2nd or 3rd place votes. I didn’t realize that they (the voters/writers) only get 3 votes. I assumed it was like the MVP voting where they list off their top 20 (or whatever the MVP voting requires). MY BAD.

You are absolutely CORRECT in saying the writers did the right thing. The top 3 vote getters deserved those spots. While Chuck James was GOOD for half (slightly more) of the year. He DID NOT derserve to get votes over those guys.

But for the guys who VOTED for the other players that had in my mind, “not as good” of numbers (not to mention the impact James had being essentially the #2 guy behind Smoltz in the second half), that’s not right. But as you pointed out, I guess those votes probably came from some of the L.A. writers just voting “for their guy”.

BTW, how long are the winter meetings? Do they last all week, or is it just a few days?

Any “new” rumors, worth gabbing about?

L8R

By nathan

November 14, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

shaun

Yes, Justice played in 127 games that year. But until Murphy was traded, he was at 1B. We wasn’t comfortable there. Plus, the majority of his “numbers” were after that trade. Make no mistake. He won that award by the 2nd half numbers he put up.

But for the sake of not going on any longer on this conversation any longer, I’ll agree with you. LOL!

By Matthew

November 14, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly:

Congrats on the deer. I love the Hawgs being splashed all over ESPN. DMac gets my Heisman vote! Missy State will be a great place to crown the new SEC West Champs. FLA is going down-they looked WEAK against USC-East. We just need the Trojans to lose one more time, have ND lose to SC the following week, and for us to pound MS ST and LSWho, then we get to buff up our BCS stength with a walloping of FLA.

What a great time to be a Hawg fan!

By Troy

November 14, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

How about this:

Everything goes great for the Braves in 07’, guys have career years, the Braves make the playoffs and better than that they win the world series. All of us idiot bloggers get to enjoy up to 11 playoff games at Turner field and pump a bunch of our hard earned money into the organization on a bunch of $7 beers and $5 hot dogs. Ownership (whoever that is) sees all of this and decide to increase payroll, then heaven forbid we can RESIGN ANDRUW JONES YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so there you have it. Let’s all drink our share and hope for the best next year.

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Good article DOB, I like the idea of Dave Roberts as our leadoff/LF. But I do believe you are right that he could potentially double his salary somewhere, and the Braves sure as sh*t ain’t gonna pay him $5mil next year. Craig Counsell is intriguing, but he doesn’t have alot of speed anymore(15SB in 2006) and he is more a SS than 2B. Not to mention his OBP was only .327! last year, now that is horrible for a leadoff hitter. I dare say we’d get better production out of Diaz at the top of the lineup…

One thing for sure I do know is that this Braves team has a definate surplus of young LF’s who would be a perfect throw in in a trade. And you’ve said this before DOB, but Marcus Giles, HoRam, and either Diaz, Langerhans, or Thorman in a trade should get some real quality in return.

By braves fan

November 14, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

Lew,

I don’t mean to say this to be nit picky, but Carl Crawford is not a #3 hitter. What I actually said was “he CAN hit leadoff” not saying he was “a leadoff hitter”. However, in fact over the last 4 years he was the leadoff hitter for TB more than any other player. He was the exclusive leadoff man in 2003-2004 getting over 500 plate appearances in the leadoff spot both seasons. In 2005 he was half and half with Julio Lugo in the #1 and #2 spots. And last year Lugo and Crawford settled into the 1-2 spots respectively for the majority of the season. (Research provided by ESPN.com.) He did see 176 plate appearances (less than a third of all his PA’s) in the #3 hole last year, but if you checked on it, I’d bet that was a function of injuries, more than a statement of him as a #3 hitter. I’m not saying he would be a bad one, but if you added him to the Braves lineup he wouldn’t have to be the #3 hitter, with Chipper, McCann or LaRoche as possibilities.

DOB,

I don’t disagree that TB would want “players” not “prospects” for Crawford. I think Horacio Ramirez plus a prospect or two is a fair trade. Ramirez is a good pitcher, better than any they have, except Kazmir. I threw in Davies name because maybe you offer him, plus better prospects than you would if you offered Ramirez. Maybe you throw in somebody like Thorman or Yunel Escobar. I’m not sure if Escobar would entice them, as I think they have plenty of infield prospects, except maybe at 1B. But my point is, throw some things at the wall and see what sticks. I think Crawford is a piece that would help add a dimension that is missing from the Braves, speed and basestealing ability. Remember, the best Braves teams had good leadoff hitters with speed back in 1991-1995. They also had great pitching, which is a more difficult thing to fix. Chuck James is a definite rose among many thorns from last season. I keep asking myself, where is all the pitching depth in the farm system that we all thought the Braves had? Davies and Ramirez were guys who impressed when they got an opportunity, but I don’t remember them being high level prospects.

Time is running out on the current management/coaching situation. I’d just like to see them put a few more eggs in the basket of 2007 and try to get a little more glory before Smoltz, Cox or Schuerholz retires. That’s why I favor bringing Glavine back next season, even if the current roster already projects to have 6 starters and trading prospects if necessary to get pieces like Crawford and relief pitching help.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

DOB

I forgot to say THANK YOU, for explaning the “how” of the voting to me. Since I asked “how is it possible….

shaun

Sorry, I lied! LOL.

Here are Justice’s “splits” for the 1990 season.

May: 2 HR & 10 RBI

June: 2 HR & 9 RBI

July: 4 HR & 9 RBI

totals before trade: 8 HR & 28 RBI

August: 11 HR & 29 RBI

September: 9 HR & 21 RBI

totals AFTER trade: 20 HR & 50 RBI

I do believe I remembered correctly, in saying he won that award AFTER August 1st.

NOW I’m done. :)

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

Expectations for Reitsma have been lessened? When did this happen? :-) Hillbilly, I thought you’d just been layin’ drunk all week soaking up last Saturday. I think for Christmas you oughtta have that chipped hoof mounted and sent to Jimmy Smith with a plaque over it that reads “Toes should not be trifled with.”

DOB, in my injury list last night I also forgot starting MLB Ed Hartwell and his backup (Jordan Beck), forcing Keith Brokking to play out of position. But hey, who needs middle linebackers? :-)

By Bravo Nam

November 14, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

KC

Sorry man, but I agree with DOB on a starting pitcher. In fact, I’ve been doing a Robert on this issue (i.e. only one been arguing this point, just like Robert and Cox), cause I actually think they need two SPs- a No.2 and a No.5. I believe they should trade both HoRam and Hudson because while good, they’re both unbelievably inconsistent- and impacted by injury (Hudson in his first year with the Braves, and I’m willing to bet this year as well, even though he didn’t admit it).

Rotation would be:

1) Hampton 2) New SP 3) Smoltz- he’s clearly our no.1, but I’d start him at no.3 to reduce his number of innings pitched and keep him healthy for the playoffs 4) Chuck James 5) New SP

Guys like Davies, Cormier et al I’d keep as back-ups for the inevitable injuries. There’s also enough question marks over these guys to warrant not considering them for the rotation at the start of the season.

By Bravo Nam

November 14, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Looking forward to some juicy trade news tomorrow.

Until then, good nite from the Nam…and let’s hope the Falcs don’t get anymore injuries.

By eware

November 14, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

DOB, I just got M. Ward’s Post-War. It’s absolutely amazing. Would you recommend his last two, as well?

By the way, you need to pick up Bernard Fanning’s “Tea & Sympathy” (Lost Highway). It’s pretty dang good too.

By KC

November 14, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

DOB:

First of all, I absolutely do feel comfortable with Horacio Ramirez as a regular starter in this rotation. 2005 was a bad year for him, but in ’03,’04 (14-8, 3.59 ERA over those two seasons), and this year, Horacio’s shown the ability to become one of the better lefties in the league. In his 12 healthy starts in ‘06, Horacio went 5-4 with a 3.89 ERA. Over that stretch, he was lights out in 9 out of his 12 starts (5-1, 1.79 ERA in those starts).. Yes, I know… he’s injury prone. But I just can’t bring myself to kick a guy of his ability out of the rotation to make room for who?… Jake Westbrook, Chris Sampson, will Ladezma??????

If Horacio were slated to anchor a slot near the top of this rotation, I would be concerned (because of his apparent injury proneness). But he’s going to be the 4th or 5th starter on this staff next year. My point is that if he goes down, can we not find someone to fill in as a 5th starter for a while? Hell, we filled out the rotation with 2, sometimes 3 fill-in starters at time this season and ya know what… they actually didn’t do half bad.

Would I feel comfortable with Davies or Cormier in the rotation on opening day? No. My mention of those two guys was merely as a back-up plan for a 5th starter. You don’t think we can find 5th starter if we need one in a pinch (either from within or without the organization)?? It’s not as though every (or any) other team in the league has a proven quality 5th starter in their rotation.

I agree that using relievers as fill-in starters can be very taxing on the bullpen. However, don’t you think Lance Cormier showed enough promise as a starter late in the season that he’ll be starting at Richmond next year? As for Davies… he’s probably going to get another stab at the Braves rotation sometime don’t you think? We’ll already have to starters waiting in the wings at Richmond who have shown promise at the big-league level.

Don’t get me wrong… I say again, if the Braves have an opportunity to upgrade this rotation, I’m certain they’ll pursue it (as they should). But I’m sorry, I just don’t think exchanging Horacio Ramirez for Jake Westbrook constitutes an upgrade.

By Shaun

November 14, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

nathan,

Yeah, that’s true about Justice, good numbers for a couple of months. But I doubt the voters dug that deep. They probably just saw that Justice had the best overall numbers and he was an everyday player who played in a significant number of games.

I just looked up the voting that year. John Burkett went 14-7 with a 3.65 ERA in 204 innings and finished fourth. So it seems there is a bias against pitchers in the ROY voting.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1990.shtml#NLroy

By braves fan

November 14, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

And Crawford could be an insurance policy in CF if Andruw Jones does leave next year.

By Shaun

November 14, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

nathan,

And I’m not so sure there shouldn’t be a biased against pitchers. While they are involved in pretty much every play on defense when they’re in the game, they don’t play nearly as many innings as everyday players. But that’s another argument for another time, perhaps.

By KC

November 14, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

A couple weeks ago, I was 80% sure that the Braves would trade Marcus Giles. Now I’m 100% certain.

Aybar, Prado, Escobar, and now even kelly Johnson… they’ve got a lot of options there.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

KC, I think you’re blinded a bit by loyalty to your own players, to Braves. Because for you to say that Jake Westbrook isn’t an upgrade over Horacio or Davies, et al _ come on, you can’t be serious.

Wesbrook has won 14, 15 and 15 games in the past three seasons while pitching at least 210 innings every season in that span. 44 wins and 640 innings in three seasons isn’t an upgrade? And even his 4.38 career ERA isn’t bad considering he’s been in the AL the whole time, in a fairly hitter-friendly park. His ERA is slightly below the AL league average in that span.

Again, 44 wins and nearly 640 innings in three seasons _ the Braves would’ve KILLED to have another quality guy eat 210 innings last year.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

eware, M. Ward is quite a talent, isn’t he? I just have the last two CDs, both outstanding. So unique.

You got any Joseph Arthur? If you like M. Ward, you should give Joseph Arthur a listen. Great, great songwriter with a cool, dark voice and sound.

By Voice of Reason

November 14, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

NL Cy Young - Brandon Webb

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Crawford is a damn good young player under contract for only $9.25 mill total over the next two seasons. If the D-Rays trade him for mere prospects and good-not-great young players, they should disbanded.

I mean, how young and cheap must you go. They’ve said, to their credit, that they aren’t trading him for prospects. And they already turned down an offer of Brandon McCarthy from the White Sox.

By Thomas

November 14, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

I dont want Andruw to go, but obviously braves wont be able to afford his future 20million contract, and said there will be no discount. If he wants to leave so desperately, trade is the best choice.

By TennesseePaul

November 14, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Catching up on a lot of posts and ran across this:
Let’s all drink our share and hope for the best next year.

I’ll drink to that!

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

I am busily looking at the list of Free Agents in MLB right now, trying to see who would be a good fit for the Braves…

Jamie Walker - LHP - Detroit 2006. A veteran lefty reliever who only pitched 30+ innings last year but posted a sub 2.00ERA in that time. Would help compliment McBride.

J.C. Romero - LHP - Anaheim 2006. Another lefty bullpen veteran who posted good numbers in his career before struggling last year w/ Anaheim. Went to college in Alabama, maybe return to the South will help him.

Ron Villone - LHP - NYY 2006. Bullpen vet who threw alot of innings last year for NY, era and WHIP numbers definately sub-par however…

Gil Meche - RHP - SEA 2006. Consistent back-end of the rotation starter who posted nearly 200 innings while compiling 11 wins last year for a bad Seattle Mariners team. Lives in Louisiana and would be a perfect #4 or #5 starter for the Braves (especially if they trade Ho-Ram). Made $3.7mil last year and is probably going to get around $5-$6 mil on a multi-year contract as a FA… It’s a gamble but a good fit none the less.

Adam Eaton - RHP - TEX 2006. A potential back end of the rotation starter, similar to Gil Meche in many ways. Probably will command a little less than Meche, around $4-$5 mil per year on a multi-year contract. Good chance of being re-signed by TEX however.

Vicente Padilla - RHP - TEX 2006. Another 4 or 5 starter that could be signed relatively cheap. Had 15 wins for Texas last year, but had a 4.50era and often suffered from a lack of control. Also a good possibility of being re-signed however…

Gonna keep looking, keep posting in a minute…

By steve in mb

November 14, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

everyone complains about payroll but really our payroll isn’t that low we are still around the top ten in the league, we just have a few players taking up most of it, chipper, andruw, smoltz. we have a good core just need to add one or two position players and one or two more relievers. if trade any of our big three SP then it should be hampton because we will start paying his full salary soon @13,000,000 as opposed to @ 8,000,000 for hudson. makes a lot more sense to trade hampton and resign andruw

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Steve, Hudson’s contract jumps to 13.5 in that same time period. No way he’s worth more than Hampton (at least over the length of time we have them both signed for). The only time he was worth AS MUCH were his two best seasons, which are getting further and further in the rearview mirror.

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

Where’s my post?

By KC

November 14, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Wesbrook did win 30 games over the past two seasons, but he also lost 25 games over that same period (a .540 win percentage). His 4.33 ERA over the past two seasons probably is above average in the American League. He might be able to shave 3/10 of a run off that in the NL… so yes, all in all, I agree that he is an above average pitcher. What’s more, he’s an innings horse, and there’s certainly something to be said for that.

In terms of reliability, Wesbrook would certainly be in upgrade over Ramirez… but not in terms of ability. Is it worth trading Horacio’s ability and potential for Wesbrook’s reliability? Last year… yes. This year… I don’t think so. Not when you consider the fact that Horacio is slated for the bottom of the rotation.

Sure, the Braves would have killed for an innings horse last year. The bullpen was weak, and we had 3 or 4 starters on the DL at any given time. The Braves were desperate for innings. While you always want innings from a starter, they’re not likely to be in the same position this year (the rotation decimated by injury with a very thin bullpen to back it up).

James is perfectly capable of anchoring the 4th slot in the rotation. So again, if Horacio goes down, we call up Cormier or Davies to fill in as the 5th starter. That would not exactly be the end of the world. If Horacio (or anyone else) went down for the season… trade for an O.Hernandez type like the Mets did last year… I mean, we’re talking about replacing a 5th starter here, not your ace!

In terms of my loyalty to our own players… I was more than ready to ship Horacio off last season. But then he came out this year and, in 9 out of 12 healthy starts, completely dominated the opposing team… reminding me why the Braves continued to see him as a part of the their future, even through his struggles with the longball in the ’05 season.

My point is that Horacio Ramirez, if he can stay healthy, (and yes… again, I know that’s big if) he has a chance to be one of the better lefties in the league. I could be wrong, but based on the way they’ve stuck with him… I think there are many in the Braves organization that feel the same way. I gave up on Horacio last year, but I now feel that was a mistake.

Keeping Horacio is a little bit of a risk. If all goes wrong (he gets hurt again), the Braves will have to use Davies or Cormier as their 5th starter, or trade for a 5th starter. If all goes well, Ramirez could win 15-plus games and post an excellent ERA. When I look at this in the context of a rotation that also includes Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, and James… I’ll take that risk.

By bellfree

November 14, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

If we trade Giles, how about trading for Chris Burke? He played 2nd base in the minors and only moved to the outfield because of the Astros loyalties to Biggio.

By Matthew

November 14, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

When will we hear an update from the winter meetings? Will they announce any dealings at the end of the day or as they come out?

DOB, do you know?

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 14, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Hey Grinch and other Hawks fans,

I don’t watch pro basketball, but I heard that former Arkansas Razorback, Joe Johnson is tearing it up this season for Atlanta. Is he the real deal like he was at the U of A or is he just on a hot streak?

By nathan

November 14, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

KC

On the same note, one could say if Chipper Jones “stays healthy” he has a legitimate chance to the NL MVP next season.

Doesn’t it sound a little silly to say Chipper Jones and “stay healthy” in the same sentence? But at the same time, Chipper HAS BEEN the NL MVP before, what has Horacio done over a full season of his career, injured or not?

Listen, I’m not saying HoRam (gotta keep him just for the nickname - would that make you, one of his BIGGEST fans, a HoRammer?), isn’t talented. He obviously is, or they (Bobby and JS) wouldv’e brushed him aside long ago, with his injuries and incosistancies. I’m just saying, waiting on a player that is always injured to all of the sudden NOT be injured is RISKY at the very least. It might be borderline insane.

Ask the Cubs if they wish they would’ve had “backup plans” the last 5 years in Chicago, or if “waiting” for Wood and Prior to be healthy (Hell, one of them, much less both at the same time), for a full season. YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT GUYS WITH TALENT THAT CAN’T STAY HEALTHY? I’d take my chances with those too, before HoRam. We KNOW what those two can do if healthy. So, in fairness, if wood is healthy this year, the Cubs just got themselves one HELLUVA deal for 1 million (plus incentives), if you ask me.

1 million dollar chance on Kerry Wood, or 3-5 million dollar chance on Horacio Ramirez? I’ll tell ya which one I’d take!……NEITHER!! Next please!

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 14, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Wow, Chris Burke in a Braves uniform would be like having Jack Morris or Jim Leyritz in a Braves uniform…..painful, very painful. But then again, if I remember correctly, J.S. acquired Denny Neagle only a few days after he pitched a one-hit shutout against the Braves in his final Pittsburgh start.

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

I don’t watch pro basketball either, but I have been seeing Johnson on the highlight reels on a nightly basis, that dude is clownin…

By rammerjammer

November 14, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

It’s bizarre that Glavine is publicly weighing a return to a team that’ll pay slightly more than half of what he’ll make elsewhere.

DOB, what are the percentage chances of Glavine’s return? Is this just a blatent attempt to enhance his worth with NY? Who’s his agent? Do you think the Braves players want him? I have no sense of his clubhouse relationship.

Thanks.

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

I like the idea of Jake Westbrook, but he will have a healthy price tag for sure and we’d have to give up alot to get him cuz he’s not a FA…Now, some more Free Agents the Braves should be considering:

Justin Speier - RHP - Toronto 2006. 33 year old veteran reliever who pitched well for Toronto last year before going on the DL with forearm tendinitis. Had a 2.98ERA with a .234oppBA. He made $2.2mil last year however, and will probably sign for at least that in 2007.

Tomo Ohka - RHP - Brewers 2006. Only 30 years old and has been a decent #3 starter and a solid #4 throughout his career. Has a career 4.04ERA in 6 seasons and over 940IP. The problem is he made $4.5 mil last year and will probably get about $5mil or more next season (possibly multi-year deal too). And this is coming off of one of the worst seasons in his career…

Chad Bradford, Roberto Hernandez, Darren Oliver - Relief Pitchers - NYM 2006. I really don’t consider these guys possibilities cuz the Muts will probably shell out the money to re-sign them. All 3 could help the Braves next season however…

Randy Wolf - LHP - Philly 2006. He could be an interesting gamble for a team. He’s coming off Tommy John surgery in 2005 and made a handful of appearances for the Phillies in 2006. Was an allstar in 2003 and has a quality career ERA of 4.14 with a 66-60 record. Wouldn’t really fit on the Braves however unless HoRam is traded.

Dave Roberts - LF - Padres 2006. DOB already hit on him, and I agree he would be the best FA option available to hit leadoff for the Braves. Could be $5mil a year though.

Woody Williams - RHP - Padres 2006. A very consistent #4 and at times #3 starter with good control. Has pitched at least 145+ innings every year for the past 4 seasons. This would be a good pickup for the Braves and would allow them to trade HoRam (or Hudson if someone’s dumb enough to take him.)

Jeff Suppan - RHP - StL 2006. Suppan would be an ideal candidate for the Braves need for a veteran innings-eater. However, someone will definately over-pay for him this offseason based on his playoff performances the last 3 years.

Jeff Weaver - Jason Marquis - RHP - StL 2006. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

Tony Armas Jr. - RHP - Nats 2006. Coming off one of his worst seasons of his career in 2006. Went 9-12 with an ERA over 5. However he did throw 150+ innings and still has potential to get better(only 28 years old), not to mention he only made $2.1mil last season so he could be had for $3-$4 mil a season. I would gamble on this guy…

If I find any more who seem worthy of fitting the Braves needs/BUDGET I will post them… What do you guys think???

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

Chris Burke….? R U Joking…? I’d rather have little big man Prado filling in for Giles, I hope Prado Is on the Bench next year, Because Pete Orr Isn’t gonna get it done…

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

OH, there’s also Ramon Ortiz of the Nationals, 190+ innings pitched, but an unreal ERA of 5.6

NO THANKS!

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

We need to trade Giles, HoRam, and Langerhans/Diaz/Thorman for a quality reliever and 1 or 2 top notch prospects, then sign one of those Starting Pitchers I’ve mentioned previously…

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe that Justin Speier is 33,Gawd I remember seeing him on our Spring training games in 1999 thinking he was only 23 or 24 yrs old…

BTW I bet ESPN Had no Idea of B. Webb winning da Cy Young This year, in their preseason prediction, just goes to show that 85 percent of the stuff dey say isn’t worth a damn…

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

Don, Don’t forget Reeksma, Pete Orr, and Tyler Yates as part of the trading/releasing ship…

By Lew

November 14, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

Braves Fan-Yes, Dude, you’re nitpicking on Crawford. First off, it’s a moot point because he won’t be playing for us and also because he may have batted leadoff at one time, but by your own admission was a 2 or 3 hitter most of the time. KC-It’s time to realize that after four years, two of which have been injury riddled and also taking into account his surgery while in the minors, Horacio WILL NOT stay healthy. Dude, 5 years is enough time to know for sure. He is not worth the $4+ million he will command in arbitration. He just isn’t and there’s no further way to spin it otherwise. It’s not the same as Davies who has pitched in PARTS of 2 seasons. Horacio has proven how it will be. Add to this the fact that he is wildly inconsistent and we can no longer risk his salary. He needs to go. Period. Now I think it was BravesFan In Rockies that said our team nucleus was getting old. I totally disagree. Our nucleus is Francoeur, McCann, LaRoche and James-not Chipper and Andruw, etc. Andruw may well be gone after this year. Same with Smoltz. Hampton in all likelihood is gone after two years. Same with Chipper. I repeat-No, I scream repeatedly-it is not time to rebuild this team. It is an exceptionally young team and there are more where these kids came from. I was just listening to Home Plate on XM and all they could talk about was the stupidity of spending all of this money to NEGOTIATE with this Japanese Dude. They said the Sox and Yankees should go back to developing their own players. Guess what, y’all-the Braves have been developing their own players quite successfully. Do you need reminding that just a year ago we brought up 18 rookies? Do you not realize we are the only team to field 9 players in one game from our own system in God knows how long? Come on. Everything will be just fine with a couple of small adjustments, one of which (Wicky) has been done already. Chill, y’all.

By ncscoots

November 14, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

DonC, thanks for the research. Your lists of FAs only puts a bold exclamation point on the fact that the Braves will try to upgrade their pitching thru trades, not FA (though I don’t think all those guys are FAs, are they? Anyway…). Picturing most of those guys coming out of a Braves bullpen is almost enough to make me hurl. And the SP don’t exactly make you want scream “we just won the pennant!”, either. I’d much prefer to see a trade for a middle-rotation guy who might cost a little more, than to see another back-end guy come aboard. Another 5th starter wouldn’t seem an upgrade to me.

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Dero, is wit da cubs now, good to see a older version of him on WGN, since there games will be few and far between on Total B.S. (TBS)

By KC

November 14, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Nathan:

Excellent comparison (Chipper). Let’s say that Chipper doesn’t bat 3rd, but 7th or 8th… and we have the opportunity to replace him with someone that’s almost certain to stay healthy and bat .280 with 18 homers and 70 RBI over a full 550 at-bats.

Would you be in favor of trading Chipper’s ability for a more reliable player with lesser ability?

Now of course, HoRam is not the pitching equivalent of Chipper Jones. He hasn’t proven enough to draw that comparison in that sense. But the fact remains that with Horacio, we have a young guy who, if he can stay healthy, appears to be very capable of posting an ERA in the mid-3.00 range or better and winning 15-plus games AS A 5th STARTER!!! Would you trade him for a veteran work horse who is consistently in the 4.00-4.50 ERA range?

If you go the Westbrook route, you know exactly what you’re getting: 210 innings and an ERA of a little over 4.00. You can be reasonably assured that he’ll give you no less than that. However, after 7 major league seasons, you can be equally assured that he’ll give you no more than that either.

With the Chipper comparison, I said “if Chipper were hitting 7th or 8th” because you have to keep in mind that Horacio Ramirez is slated for the bottom of this rotation. I would rather have the chance of Chipper staying relatively healthy (at least for a good portion of the season, hopefully) and having his bat in the order, than to have a player that isn’t as talented, but will play every day. That would be especially true if our offense didn’t hinge on Chipper, just as our rotation doesn’t hinge on Horacio Ramirez.

Again, the question is this… A young guy with tremendous ability that hasn’t hit his ceiling yet, but is somewhat injury prone… VS. a more reliable veteran with lesser ability who has clearly already reached his full potential, which is slightly above average.

After seeing how Horacio has looked when he’s healthy (with the exception of ’05)…

• 14-8 with a 3.59 ERA in ’03 & ’04

• 5-4 with a 3.89 ERA in 12 healthy starts this year (and dominant in 9 of 12… 5-1 with a 1.70 ERA)

…and considering he’s only our 4th or 5th starter, I just can’t give up on a guy that talented in favor of a slightly above average veteran, no matter how reliable.

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

DOB would you go for 2 or 3 highly touted prospects for HoRam, Giles, and a throw in? Or would there have to be a quality reliever in there too?

By KC

November 14, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Lew: “Horacio WILL NOT stay healthy”

Lew:

I have conceded numerous times that Horacio does appear to be injury prone. It certainly seemed so this year. However, he did make 33 starts just last year… so let’s not get carried away or make any Kerry Wood comparisons just yet.

As for his “inconsistency”… You talk about Horacio as though he has a long established pattern of inconsistency. In 03’ and ’04, he was consistently good. In ’05 unfortunately, he was consistently mediocre (he struggled with the longball all season). I wouldn’t call his ’05 season inconsistent… I’d just call it a bad year. Lots of players have them.

In 2006, HoRam made 12 healthy starts this season and yes, in those starts… he was a bit erratic. Of his 12 healthy starts, 9 of them were stellar and 3 of them were terrible. There was certainly some inconsistency there, however as I’ve pointed out before, a guy that shuts the other team down 9 out of every 12 times is a valuable starter. And even with his inconsistencies, he still when posted a respectable 3.89 ERA over those 12 starts.

Having said all of that, believe it or not, I’m okay with the Braves trading Horacio Ramirez… just not right now (unless we can add another top-tier starter). Give him a chance to bring his trade value up. If he can stay healthy and pitch well for even just a ½ season, his trade value will double from where it is right now. If he weren’t injury prone (as he does appear to be), then I would be very much in favor of keeping him long term. But if the Braves aren’t confident in his long-term health and reliability, it makes sense to trade him. But I think they should hold off until we can get a commensurate return (again, unless they can add another top-tier guy).

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, those are all FA’s, at least as of Yesterday afternoon…

Man KC, you really like HoRam don’t you? I agree he looks very good at times (never ACE material as you’ve suggested, but definately #2 material I’d say). For all the reasons you’ve just mentioned about why we shouldn’t trade him; those are exactly the reasons why the Braves could command a high return for him. I have just had it with his injuries, I mean, he has yet to stay healthy for even the majority of a season, let alone the entire season. For you to covet a pitcher who has 19 wins over the past 3 seasons is a bit ridiculous. That’s just how I see it…

By geauxbraves2000

November 14, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

For any who may be interested, it appears Mark DeRosa has inked a 3 year approx $13M deal with the Cubs.

Geaux Braves!!

By The Blogger Fromerly Know as Billy

November 14, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

I think we should trade B. Mcann….he is getting old and his bat is slowing…..

J/k……thought you could use a joke

By Glass Half Full

November 14, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

Good for DeRo!!! That’s a helluva deal for a utility guy with like 38 career homers

By KC

November 14, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

To reiterate… I’m not opposed to parting with Horacio, but not simply to add a mediocre or slightly above pitcher. Here’s a trade I would be happy to see the Braves make:

Jake Peavy and Scott Linebrink

for

Horacio Ramirez, Marcus Giles, Kyle Davies, Joey Devine, and Matt Diaz (assuming we can sign a leadoff guy for LF).

I don’t think the Padres are willing to part with Peavy, but if they were willing to consider it… San Diego would probably be a good fit not only for Marcus Giles, but for Horacio Ramirez as well. He’s from southern California and loves it there. Also, while he cut his HR/9 innings ratio in half this season, he still gets a lot of fly balls, and Petco’s spacious outfield is well suited for that.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

KC I agree with you that he “possibly” has a ceiling that hasn’t been reached yet. But, taking into consideration that JS has an 80million dollar budget to “work with” (I’m a firm believer that if the pieces are put together just right, that that is MORE than enough money to work with), JS has ZERO room for error, when making a judgement call on a guy like HoRam.

Of course if we trade HoRam and he goes on to have a MONSTER year, our loss, I guess. Also, there is no guarantees with injuries. We could pick up a guy like Westbrook (sp) and with our injury luck the last couple of years, HE COULD GET HURT.

It’s just a new day and age in Bravesland. Not really new, I guess. It’s just that now the injury bug is starting to catch up to us. As I stated yesterday (maybe the day before), I have FULL confindence that JS will do what he feels not only improves the club going into next year, but set’s the table for the following years as well. If not talent wise, money wise.

I’ve got no personal beef with HoRam, he seems like a good guy, with some talent. But ya know, the guy can’t seem to stay on the field, so at this point he’s a BIG “?”. That’s why JS makes the big bucks, and I don’t.

By Paul

November 14, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

Even if the braves do trade Horacio, what are they going to get in return? I cant see his trade value being too high. He’s inconsistent and is on the shelf too frequently. Same goes for Davies. What has he done? He has shown flashes. But so did Pete Smith and David Nied. Hey Dave, what do you like better the Cohiba Siglo series or the regular Cohiba line? Now that Fidel is apparently “terminally ill”, I wonder if the embargo will be soon to go.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

KC

Jake Peavy and Scott Linebrink for Horacio Ramirez, Marcus Giles, Kyle Davies, Joey Devine, and Matt Diaz (assuming we can sign a leadoff guy for LF).

Man for a guy who doesn’t want to just give HoRam away, are you sure you want to give up ALL OF OUR POSSIBLE PAWNS in one trade?

Now that’s a little assinine, if you ask me.

For one, (maybe I’m the ONLY one), but I expect Devine to have possibly, when it’s all said and done a better year than Linebrink. I may get blasted for that. But for what his roll will be on the team, I see Devine as having more UPSIDE than HoRam, not to mention he’s a Helluva LOT cheaper.

Just my .02!

By nathan

November 14, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Glass Half Full

but DeRo’s deal, just let’s you know where the market is going, doesn’t it?

Not that he doesn’t deserve it. He was a hard worker, and look at Betemit. Those utility guys that can play EVERYWHERE and occasionally start for a couple weeks at a time, are very valuble. The Windy City is a good home for him.

Just think of the ALL-WORLD utility guys that have come through here. DeRosa, Grafanino, Betemit. Not to mention Furcal, and Giles (when he’s gone). Seems our organization knows somthing about developing middle infielders, doesn’t it.

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

Okay, here’s my plan for 2006 if I were GM of the Braves:

1)Gil Meche, Vicente Padilla, Tomo Ohka, or Woody Williams need to be signed as a starter. (all around $4-$6mil a year I’d guess).

2)Trade Giles, HoRam, and either Langerhans/Thorman/Diaz to a team for 1 or 2 quality relievers and 1 or 2 top-notch prospects and then another decent prospect thrown in… May have to split them up however. Maybe a package deal with Giles and Langy/Thor/Diaz for a quality reliever and a prospect. Then trade HoRam to someone else for another reliever and a top notch prospect…

This team has to change something, last year was a failure and JS can’t just sit by thinking that signing Bob Wickman will turn a 78 win team into a 92 win team…

By Lew

November 14, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

KC-I’m not making Kerry Wood comparisons. Horacio never struck out 20 batters in a game. As far as consistency goes-4 years in the bigs. He had one year (rookie year) that was good. If you subtract his rookie 12-4 record (weith a high 4.00 ERA), he has been a .500 pitcher at 18-18. He has only had one year under 4.0ERA and that was in 03 when he went 2-4 and pitched in only ten games. You talk about making 33 starts in 05. That’s the only time he pitched that much and he had an ERA of 4.63. Last year was 4.49. You don’t call this inconsistency? In addition, he put up this amazing .500 record with a team that ran away with their division 3 of the 4 years he pitched for them. He has been injured and on the DL for 8 of the past 18 basebalkl months. Just what, other than your innate optimism points to a superlative performance. I fyou can’t get an idea in 4 ML years, then you’re way too patient. I repeat. He must go. He’s now too expensive. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve met him several times and he is a truly nice kid. I would hate to see him go, but the writing is on the wall. It’s time for him to develop (or not) elsewhere.

By KC

November 14, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone:

I guess that all depends on what your definition of an “ace” is. These days, we’re calling guys with ERAs in the mid and upper 3.00 range “aces”. In the AL, guys can get away with a 4.00 ERA and still be considered an ace by many. As I’ve pointed out… in his first two seasons, he posted a 3.59 ERA, and in 12 healthy starts this season… a 3.89 ERA (similar to the ERAs of Zito and Glavine… though I don’t consider either of them to be an ace anymore).

If Horacio were to make 30-plus starts next year, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him finish with an ERA in the low-mid 3.00 range with 15-20 wins. It really wouldn’t. I think he’s fully capable of being that good.

Despite how it may seem, I’m not a member of the Horacio Ramirez fan club (if there is one). I just saw what he did in his first couple years up here, and in 9 of his 12 healthy starts this season… and it made me a believer. I agree with everyone else here that health is a concern for HoRam, but if he can stay on the mound long enough, I think this kid has an extremely high ceiling… one we haven’t seen yet. That’s why, while I’m not opposed to trading HoRam, it kills me when people are talking about getting rid of him simply to dump 3-4 mill of payroll, or to make room for a mediocre veteran.

If we have a chance to truly upgrade the rotation (not Jake Westbrook, but more like Jake Peavy), then I’m all for moving him.

By Bob, journalist

November 14, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

Well, I got on here for some good reason … but, by the time I scrolled down to the end … I forgot what it was. I awoke to fog this morning and I must still be therein.

I’m a few days late and and several dollar short … but it’s nice to be back online. I see that Jimmy is still taking abuse from evil doers … “Timex Jimmy Smith” … the right blend of lard and churned butter well mixed with good, fresh flour, raw milk, a little salt and some baking powder … properly kneaded and cooked on a wood stove … them’s good biscuits … but I’ve been barred from so doing since nobody is willing/able to clean up the mess (and we no longer have a wood stove).

David O’B, it looks like you’ve become an Information Machine! Maybe our Manager in Mississippi had ‘em pressing a bit …

The Grinch emailed me a while back, expressing what I mistook to be empathy, only to now find that it was really sarcasm … maybe it’s best to let sleeping dawgs lie, especially when the truth hurts … just think what he’ll be like at 34.

Time for a hot tub and putting the finishing touches on the software installation and the webserver security system.

It’s good to be back and to see so many familiar and friendly folks participating during the off-season … kuddos to David O’B.

Speaking of seasons, ‘tis the season to boycott WallMart and BestBuy … Merry Christmas!

Later …

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, I’ve been watching all the Hawks games this year (there’s another one on at 7 tonight). Johnson hurts his own publicity by being so low-keyed and non-flashy, but even the sources that make a business of ignoring the Hawks so far are grudgingly admitting he’s one of the elite scorers in the league and a legitimate MVP candidate so far. The dude is absolutely lighting it up, and doing it in a complete way. Jumpers, dunks, 3-pointers, free-throws, DEFENSE (something most other scorers don’t bother with), etc. Add to that he doesn’t mind passing to his teammates and he doesn’t shoot people in nightclubs or steal purses and you got a guy to base your team around.

By KC

November 14, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

Nathan:

“Devine as having more UPSIDE than HoRam”

PLEEEEEEEASE, for your sake… stay off the hallucinogens.

First of all, unless Devine one day becomes a dominant closer, he will never have the value of a quality starter. Horacio Ramirez, despite his poor ’05 season is 30-22 on his career with an ERA of around 4.00 (not great, but above average). My point is that I think he’s proven that he’s capable of much more than a 4.00 ERA. Again, unless Devine becomes the next great closer, he will not have the same value as a quality starter.

As for my trade proposal… the Giles for Linebrink deal may happen anyway. So if you take that away, you have:

Jake Peavy for Davies, Ramirez, Diaz, Devine.

I would make that deal. There’s nothing more valuable or more difficult to come by than a legitimate ace, and Peavy has shown that ability. Additionally, Peavy is still a low-cost pitcher… meaning that the Padres would be doubly reluctant to part with him. You’d have to give up a lot to get a guy like that, but I think it’s worth it. Keep in mind also that the Padres would be taking on a fair amount of payroll in that deal. Joey Devine is a throw-in to help compensate for that.

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

BOB! I don’t have the slightest clue what you’re talking about (although if it involved sarcasm, I probably DID have something to do with it), but glad to see you back anyway! I’m now in the mood for buscuits for some reason. Man, it IS getting close to Christmas, isn’t it? Time to go a wassailing! And time for me to begin a plot against the whos…mmm…who hash…:-)

By Lew

November 14, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

KC-Dude, I absolutely love your optimism, but what is it that leads you to believe Horacio will pitch in 30+ games and have an ERA in the mid to low 3’s? There is absolutely nothing in his past performance to indicate this will happen. Also, I hardly consider a 3.89 ERA to be respectable-it is barely acceptable. And that was only if you use his GOOD starts. He had a 4.49 ERA last year. You just can’t break it down and cherry pick your stats like Shaun. Now I realize you’re not necessarily a Horacio fan club member, but your expectations have damn little basis, Dude. Four years is definitely enough time to guage his performance. It has been as a .500 pitcher, very often injured, with a career ERA of well over 4 runs per game. As far as replacing him with a top line starter. Why? He isn’t a top line starter. If with the Braves this year, he will be a number 5 starter at best.

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

Poor Mark DeRosa, now he will go to Chicago and we will all watch the slow, painful death of his career…

By Glass Half Full

November 14, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

I agree rising salaries are ridiculous, but we’re all to blame. I’m a proponent for a salary cap myself; even a salary “floor” or “basement” would be good so that small market teams couldn’t deliberately go cheap.

By Ron

November 14, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this

Here is my idea. Move Chipper from third to first to help him play more than 100 games a year. Package LaRoache and Ramirez or minor league guys to go get Crawford from Tampa Bay. Then dump Giles for Linebrick. Gets us past the left field hole we have now and probably lets us fill centerfield next year when Andruw is playing someplace else. Crawford is a leadoff hitter with great speed, we need that. Giles used to be fine, and might be again if not hitting leadoff, but Linebrick can help us it the pen, and with an older closer we need a younger guy who can step in and close if need be. Chipper needs to get away from third base to preserve his health. You can’t really trade him unless he wants us to, so if he can play first 140 games a year, ends the platoon system over there. Thorman can be a backup and also play in the outfield if needed.

By KC

November 14, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

Lew:

Here are the facts (just talking performance here):

‘03/’04 (39 starts between the two seasons) – 14-8, 3.59 ERA

2005 – 11-9, 4.63 ERA.

2006: He made 14 starts total. Again, his first and last starts of the year were both games in which he was pitching hurt, came out of those games early, and went straight on the DL. For the purpose of evaluating his performance and potential… I think it’s fair to toss those 2 games out, and focus on the 12 healthy starts he made between DL stints)

In his 12 healthy starts, Horacio went 5-4 with a 3.89 ERA. In 9 of 12, he was scary good (5-1, 1.70 ERA).

I believe 2005 was an aberration. The reason I believe that is because he never got hurt by the homerun ball before or after that season like he did in ’05. Even in Ramirez’s 3 terrible starts this year, he really wasn’t giving up homers.

Again, I’m not a member of the Horacio Ramirez fan club. I’m not such an avid fan that I feel the need to spin the numbers and pretend he’s the next CY Young (nor do I believe that). I just saw what this kid did in his first couple years here, and what he did between DL stints this season… and I think if he can stay healthy, he’s got a chance to be special. Sue me.

Gotta run, good debate. Gd’night all.

By Lew

November 14, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

Glass-Nice sentiments, but with the luxury tax floors rising like they did in the new CBA, it is wishful thinking only (though shared by many of us). Look at the insanity of the bidding war for the Japanese Dude. It will get much worse and may never get any better.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

KC

First of all, unless Devine one day becomes a dominant closer, he will never have the value of a quality starter.

Are we still putting HoRam into the quality starter? By the way I see that trade you proposed. Diaz and Giles would be the cream of that deal, with Davies, HoRam and Devine being the “throw ins”.

I’m not saying that Devine will be more valuble than HoRam or vice versa. But I’ll ask you this. With last years team, what would’ve been more valuble to THE BRAVES? A mediocre starter (HoRam), that could’ve eaten some innings. Cuz we all know he is UP and DOWN anyways, when healthy. Or a reliever that coulda gotten ANYBODY OUT.

I may being optomistic. But I’ll assume that between Hudson and Hampton. ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO HAVE AN OK/GOOD SEASON. That added with Chuck and Smoltz, leaves us with a pretty solid 1-2-3. NOW if Hudson AND Hampton both rebound, we’ve got a pretty nice 1-2-3-4.

THIS TEAM NEEDS BULLPEN HELP. I’m not saying Joey Devine is the answer. But the Braves did him NO FAVORS by, drafting him, fast tracking him and THROWING HIM INTO THE FIRE in 2005. I’m going to pretend 2005 DIDN’T HAPPEN, and consider last year his ROOKIE year. Yeah, I know. You can’t really do that. But I’m gonna give the guy ONE MORE YEAR before, I consider him a WASTED DRAFT PICK. If he fails this year, he probably ALWAYS will. But If both HoRam and Devine would turn it around and become DOMINANT this year, and we had to choose which one to keep. I’d choose Devine.

Not sure why, but I would.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

Glass Half Full

I agree rising salaries are ridiculous, but we’re all to blame. I’m a proponent for a salary cap myself; even a salary “floor” or “basement” would be good so that small market teams couldn’t deliberately go cheap.

AMEN Brotha! I’ve been saying we need a Ceiling more than a cap, for years. But I suppose you can’t have one without the other. But the teams that spend too LITTLE and “dump” players every other year, are just as much to blame as the Yankees, for the “GAP” between rich and poor.

By BravesFaninRockies

November 14, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

Glass,

I’ve argued on other posts that a salary cap would be disastrous in baseball because the rosters are too big (they’re 40 at the MLB level plus minor leaguers plus guys on the DL) and the season is too long. With injuries, call-ups, etc., it’s nearly impossible to get the pieces to all fit under a meaningful cap.

That said, I do agree that something like a floor might work. Teams can be as cheap as they like, but if they spend less than the floor — say, $35-40 MM? — then they have to refund the difference to MLB, which would divide it among the other small-revenue teams. Or use it to build inner-city ballparks. Or to rebate to taxpayers who have built publicly financed stadiums. Or whatever. Just keep it out of the cheapskates’ bank accounts.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 14, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

oh, the humanity! it is journalist bob! welcome back! really bob, right? not someone posing as bob and talking biscuits to throw jimmy smith off? a question for this person posting as journalist bob … where is the tunnel?

now, hillbilly … journalist would like to hear more of this mysterious toe injury to a deer in the woods … hmmm … if a deer hurts his toe in the woods and uh, no one is there to hear him holler … “uh, help…”

this was posted earlier but brought no response … “and who is the journalist that is going into the panda pen to write stories and take photos for the ajc?” this journalist is not suggesting anything but could it be an off-season assignment? and will there be a panda blog? panda and man in black? perhaps a panda COLUMN?

now, bob will have better luck with computers if he will not work on them while in the bathtub.

this journalist has heard from carolina lady and is encouraging her quick return to the blog. as many of you will know, carolina lady has a bird enterprise that keeps her busy this time of year. and what is a bird enterprise? a carrier? oh, the humanity! that was bad even for jimmy smith.

now, baseball … who is at the winter meetings? dob? guy curtright? the old journalist? perhaps a new columnist? just a rumor - only a rumor.

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this

Lew I have to agree with you, KC is all over the place. KC you can’t just pick the stats that make HoRam’s career look better. The ONLY SEASON he stayed healthy and had 30+ starts he was mediocre AT BEST. You said that yourself! And yet, now, just 1 full season later, he is primed to go 17-6 (or something similar)with a mid to low 3’s ERA??? KC you are in fantasy land, thank god guys like me and Lew are here to calm you down….

And by the way, here are the numbers for your “legitimate ace” you’d trade all those players for:

Jake Peavy 2006: 11W - 14L; 4.09ERA; 24HR’s allowed; 0 Shutouts!!! That’s your “legitimate ace”?

By GM Wannabe

November 14, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

DON: I agree 100% about moving Chipper to 1st. I think LaRoache had a great second half last season but I do no think he can repeat it. It would be worth taking the chance that he cannot repeat it and send him to Tampa with Davies or HoRam for Crawford, I do not think Tampa will do it. Anyway can someone explain to me how we are acquiring Jake Westbrook? Whoever brought this up has to be clueless to think HoRam is better than Westbrooke

By Tim Hudson

November 14, 2006 06:56 PM | Link to this

Layoff KC, Don. He thinks good thoughts. Go kiss J. D. Drew’s rear end.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

KC, you wrote:

“In terms of reliability, Wesbrook would certainly be in upgrade over Ramirez… but not in terms of ability. Is it worth trading Horacio’s ability and potential for Wesbrook’s reliability?”

My one-word response: Yes.

By Stinky

November 14, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this

GM Wannabe, what are you smoking. Please tell me. I could really sail with whatever you tokin’ on. LaRoache is worth keeping forever with just his glove. He zones out a bit, but he’s legally medicating now and had 30+ taters. And DOB and the Gold Glove voting crew are gonna be penciling his name in for quite a few gold gloves. He’s butter. He’s on an indefinte roll.

Is it Maui Wowee? Or maybe Labradoar?

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this

DonC, I want to express how crazy this market is about to get, and how out-of-the-free-agent-loop the Braves might be.

You wrote: Vicente Padilla - RHP - TEX 2006. Another 4 or 5 starter that could be signed relatively cheap. Had 15 wins for Texas last year, but had a 4.50era and often suffered from a lack of control. Also a good possibility of being re-signed however…

Don, here’s what rumors are that Padilla might make: $9-10 mill a year in a multi-year deal. Yes, you read correctly. That’s how much cash some teams have and how desperate teams are for pitching.

NOBODY DECENT is going to be cheap, when it comes to starting pitching.

You pointed out a couple of possible relief targets for Braves, including Villone. Those are realistic, because it’s something Braves can probably afford. But not the starters you mentioned. They’ll probably have to trade for a decent starter if they want to bolster rotation, which they do want to do.

By KC

November 14, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

Don C:

When did I “pick the stats that make HoRam’s career look better”?

The only stats I’ve asked anyone to ignore in HoRam’s entire career are the first and last starts of the 2006 season. Again, he was pitching hurt in both of those starts, came out early, and went straight on the DL.

I said that I believe HoRam’s 2005 season to be an aberration in terms of his performance, but I never said “oh, you can’t can’t ‘05”. I just said that I personally believe it was not indicative of the way he pitched before or 05 or of the way he pitched this year when healthy.

Yes Don, if HoRam can stay healthy (and I agree that’s a big “if”)… I think HoRam could very easily put up a 17-9, 3.50 season. I really do. I think he’s shown tremendous potential when healthy.

What I saw in his first 2 seasons, and what I saw from him when healthy this year has made me a believer. Again… so, sue me.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

Steven in MB: Are you SERIOUS about trading Hampton? The guy hasn’t pitched since the 2005 season and is owed $29.5 million for the 2006-07 seasons. Which general manager not under the influence of narcotics is going to trade for him?

By KC

November 14, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Fair enough. JS and the Braves’ front office may very well agree with you… I guess we’ll see.

By Bob, journalist

November 14, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

The Braves are now small market wenches. They were once sliced bread. Now they’re sweet cornbread. Where’s the butter. I want to be on a roll…

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

Paul, you asked which I like better, Cohiba Siglo series or the regular Cohiba line?

I don’t even know what the Siglo line is. I just know I like these Cohiba Churchills from Habana.

But I just choked on one when I read KC’s trade suggestion:

Jake Peavy and Scott Linebrink

for

Horacio Ramirez, Marcus Giles, Kyle Davies, Joey Devine, and Matt Diaz (assuming we can sign a leadoff guy for LF).

That’s not serious, right? Please tell me you’re not being serious, KC.

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

KC, one thing that stats don’t point out that may be a factor: What about times when the bullpen’s shot and all the team really needs is someone to step in and give the team 6 or 7 innings, even if they give up a few. With Ramirez everyone knows he may well come in and not make it out of the second. What that does to a team’s psyche (and the ripple effect on the already tired bullpen later in the season) is NOT neccessarily offset by the next time he goes out and goes 7 and gives up 2 or 3. Not when the bad ones are about every 4 or 5 starts. I really rather would have someone who I KNEW was gonna go six, even if they usually gave up 4. At least you know more than likely the team will still have a chance to win.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this

Steven in MB, sorry about the years. Meant to say Hampton is owed $29.5 mill for 2006-07, not 2005-06.

He gets $14.5 mill in 2007 and $15 mill in 2008, and the Braves are paying it ALL. So unless he has a healthy and resoundingly sucessful season, forget about him going anywhere. And certainly don’t even fantasize about trading him until he has a healthy season.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this

Maybe it’s just me, but I’d rather be sweet cornbread than sliced bread. Much tastier, sweet cornbread. No?

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this

Oh, wait, that was just an analogy? Sorry.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

BravesFaninRockies

I’ve argued on other posts that a salary cap would be disastrous in baseball because the rosters are too big (they’re 40 at the MLB level plus minor leaguers plus guys on the DL) and the season is too long. With injuries, call-ups, etc., it’s nearly impossible to get the pieces to all fit under a meaningful cap.

YOU MEAN LIKE IN THE NFL WHERE THEY HAVE 53 MAN ROSTERS!!!????

LAMEST excuse I’ve every heard of for NOT having the salary cap.

By Stinky

November 14, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this

Doh! I used that “butter on a roll” bit on another blog today. I sure hope Bob, journalist didn’t see it or my cover may be blown. Guess I am busted, not that anyone here didn’t already know it was me.

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

DOB that is just insane… $10-$12 mil. a season on a multi-year dear for Vacinte Padilla?!? That can’t be right can it? He only made like $4.5mil last season.

Well DOB, what about Ohka, Woody Williams, Tony Armas, Adam Eaton??? And if Padilla is going to make that much, Gil Meche is then what, $15mil per season???

By Tyler

November 14, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this

Potential Starters:

Smoltz Hampton Hudson James Davies

Our starting rotation is quite good and considerably better than last year already. As for our pen, I would either go after Howry or Linebrink. Id have to think Linebrink would be easier to negotiate with because of how Marcus and Brian Giles desire to play with each other.

Potential Lineup (Without transactions):

Giles (2B) Renteria (SS) Chipper (3B) Andruw (CF) Laroche (1B) McCann (C) Franceour (RF) Diaz/Langerhans (LF) Pitcher

Im pretty sure that we will be without Marcus next year. The problem I have with replacing him with a young farm player is the fact that we’re simply replacing him. Why not better ourselves and get somebody who will leadoff and play second or left field? Im kind of fixed on Counsell because he seems like a pesky little player that could definetely improve our team in more ways than leading off. If we went out and got him I still believe we need a left fielder. I love Langerhans to death; he’s a balls to the walls outfielder, but his hitting is mediocre if that. Diaz comes across as somebody we cant rely on to play everyday and that maybe his season was a fluke. After all, where the hell did he come from? Kansas City?

Anyways, thats just my opinion.

By Paul

November 14, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this

Try the siglo (500 year anniversary of Columbus sailing in 1492) line…you wont cough as much. (more refined) Why would you even consider trading Hampton? He will have a big year for the Braves next year. (didn’t Brave officials say he was in the best shape of his life) Peavy and Linebrick for that? Shoot, why not call the D-Rays and offer them Giles/Devine and the rest for Crawford and Kazmir. (Gotta love Kazmir for Zambrano)

By Lew

November 14, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

KC-I put much more credence in Horacio’s more RECENT performances than his rookie year 4 years ago. In the past three seasons, he has missed most of two seasons and in the past two years he has posted ERA’s of over 4 and a half runs a game. That’s not much of a record to stand on. And I’m sorry, but ERA’s in the high 3’s are barely acceptable, even in this era. ERA’s of 4.5 are not acceptable at all. To the LaRoche bashers rearing their heads again-trading him now would be stupid. He is cheap for three more years, is an excellent defensive first baseman, and has always hit for power his entire career and is just now getting real good.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 08:09 PM | Link to this

DOB

If JS is going to have to spend that kind of money for a decent starter. It might as well be Glavine. Since he would help the team, AND bring some sentimental value to the park.

Not that he should spend 10 mill on Glavine either, but if he HAD to……

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

Seriously though DOB, they could at least go after Armas or Ohka right?

By Stinky

November 14, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

DOB likes sweet cornbread. I knew it. All that time at Kansas State Re-education Center turned him into a Yankee.

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this

LEW, are you NUTS??? A high 3 ERA this day in age is GREAT!!! Are you kidding me? Smoltz had an ERA of 3.49 and he was a Top 10 in CY Young voting and the unquestioned ACE of our staff! Brandon Webb just won the freakin’ Cy Young and his ERA was 3.10!

Lew, you are usually a voice of reason, but you are wrong on this one…

By Lew

November 14, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

Everyone still totally absorbed with thoughts of Andruw being traded and Carl Crawford coming to the Braves needs to go to ESPN.com and read what Jerry Crasnick has to say about both of them and the trade possibilities.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this

DOB

Here is how rumors start. (remember the game from Jr. High?) You said in your 7:12 post, I quote:

“Don, here’s what rumors are that Padilla might make: $9-10 mill a year in a multi-year deal.”

Late down in the thread at 7:57, DonCoburleone said:

“DOB that is just insane… $10-$12 mil. a season on a multi-year dear for Vacinte Padilla?!? That can’t be right can it?”

Not tryin to pick on you Don, but I didn’t (and still don’t) see ANYTHING in DOB’s post mention the figures 10-12 million?

By journalist jimmy smith

November 14, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

When you’re alone and life is making you lonely You can always go to DOB’s- downtown When you’ve got worries, all the noise and the hurry Seems to help, I know - downtown Just listen to the music of the traffic in the city Linger on the sidewalk where the neon signs are pretty How can you lose?

The lights are much brighter there You can forget all your troubles, forget all your cares So go downtown, things’ll be great when you’re Downtown - no finer place, for sure Downtown - everything’s waiting for you

Don’t hang around and let your problems surround you There are movie shows about DOB- downtown Maybe you know some little places to go to Where they never close - downtown Just listen to the rhythm of a gentle DOB DBT You’ll be dancing with him too before the night is over Happy again

The lights are much brighter there You can forget all your troubles, forget all your cares So go downtown, where all the lights are on DOB Downtown - waiting for you tonight Downtown - you’re gonna be all right now

And you may find somebody kind to help and understand you Someone who is just like you and needs a gentle hand to Guide them along

So maybe I’ll see you there We can forget all our troubles, forget all our cares So go downtown, LOOKING FOR DOB

when you’re Downtown - don’t wait a minute more Downtown - DOB, you know, is waiting for you

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

Univ. of Kansas, my friend. Absolutely NOT Kansas State University.

Actually, I never heard of sweet cornbread. Just figured he was referring to cornbread. Only had one kind growing up in North Carolina, and my Carolina-native mother only cooked one kind in the years we lived in Memphis and Kansas.

So I’ll say, cornbread sounds better than sliced bread. How’s that?

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

DonC, you wrote: That is just insane… $10-$12 mil. a season on a multi-year dear for Vacinte Padilla?!?

Where did the $12 mill figure come from? What I said _ $9-10 mill _ wasn’t high enough and had to be embellished? I never said $12 mill. Check the post.

By KC

November 14, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

LEW:

Explain your ERA standards to the people that are about to pay 10-plus million a year to guys like Glavine and Zito who have been posting ERA’s around 4.00 for a few years now. And talk to DOB who wants a guy (Jake Westbrook) who is between 4.00-4.50 every year.

I will disagree with an ERA in the high 3.00 range being barely tolerable… not anymore. ERA’s have moved up about a half-run across the board from where they were 15-20 years ago. It used to be that a 4.00 ERA was average at best. Now that’s above average, and a 3.00 or a 3.50 ERA is a lot more impressive than it used to be… Too many bulky hitters and little league ballparks like the ones in Cinci and Houston… to say nothing of Coors. Phili is another of the new hitter’s parks. The NL has been putting in a lot more hyper-hitter-friendly parks of late, which I think is why there’s not much of a difference between the AL and NL anymore in runs scored.

Listen, on Horacio… I can’t defend his ‘05 season and wouldn’t try to. It wasn’t good. I’m judging primarily on what I saw this year. He posted a 3.89 ERA in the 12 healthy starts he made this season. First of all, these days, I think anything below 4.00 is good. A high-3.00’s ERA is not great, but good. However, I’m looking at what he did in those 9 starts, and I just happen to believe that he’s capable of far better than a 3.89. I could be wrong, but based on what I saw… that’s what my gut tells me.

While there are varying opinions around here about HoRam’s ability, the generally consensus seems to be that HoRam is a liability because of his injury proneness. As I think I’ve made clear, I think it would be a mistake to part with him unless we have an opportunity to seriously upgrade the starting staff with a top-tier starter.

I’m curious to see if the Braves’ front office agrees with me or with you guys. I guess we’ll find out at some point over the next few months.

By Stinky

November 14, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

Dob, If you are saying that you don’t like sweet Yankee cornbread, well, I don’t blame you. I guess you just slipped up. You’re off the hook.

By Stinky

November 14, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this

Stop making sense. If Padilla makes 10M, Hudson is well within the bell curve. Dambnation.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 14, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

show tunes. you must be more comfortable with show tunes - why not adapt them for your sneaky blogs? ethel merman? carol channing? here you go … m-a-n-i-l-o-w. like butter on a roll, genius.

now, baseball … chipper can’t play first. he can barely play third. two stretches at first base and he’s on the dl.

this journalist did not get an answer about who is covering the baseball meetings so this journalist is pressed into service again. off to naples.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

That post by the fake JJS was the single-most painfully unfunny post of the week. Make that the month. Could only be ONE person. I’ll have them check and see. I’m curious.

Because we were having great exchanges all day, discussing baseball and other matters, and it really upsets one person, and one person only. The sad clown. Gotta be him.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Here’s a question I have for Lew and Don, since they are arguing back and forth as to what is an exceptable ERA in today’s game. To some this may be a STUPID arguement, but to me It can kinda make sense, so hear me out.

The general rule of thumb that “defines” a quality start is the following: 6 IP w/ 3 or less earned runs allowed. Well all of us “stats” guys can tell you that the qualifications above equal out to an ERA of 4.50. NOT GREAT to ANY stats guy! But in reality in today’s game those kinda numbers “give the team a CHANCE to win the game”.

My theory for starters, strangely enough is not only to track the Earned Runs Allowed per starts, but WHAT INNING THEY WERE ALLOWED. Take Tim Hudson for example. Many nights he gave a typical, run of the mill, garden variety AVERAGE “quality start”. Fair Enough? The part that bothered me about most of his starts (similar to Glavine early in his career), is that MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, in the starts that he didn’t give us a quality start, he got HAMMERED early and often, putting us in a BIG TIME hole. Which in turn, puts added pressure on the hitters to make somthing happen. Now to be fair to Hudson, many more times than in years past we found a way to come back in these games (only to watch the pen IMPLODE), but like I said, I think the “timing” of these runs is more disturbing than they would be in the late innings.

Some of you may come back with a comment like “Runs allowed are runs allowed, it doesn’t matter when they are given up.” Last year when we had no bullpen, I might tend to agree with that. But look at it this way. If Hudson (or any starting pitcher) is “IN TROUBLE” early, how often does Cox or any manager for that matter give a guy the HOOK in the first or second inning? Where if the team had a reliable bullpen and the Starter had given the team 5, 6 or even 7 good innings and got into trouble the manager will almost ALWAYS make a move. So to me, when starters give up runs in bunches EARLY in the game, it’s much more of a downer than giving up 3 “late” runs in the 6th inning.

BTW: I used Hudson, because, well, because he was the guy I used as an example. But Davies was EQUALLY as bad at getting SHELLED early.

Just a theory people. LET ME HAVE IT.

By KC

November 14, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Yes, I was being serious… although now that I’ve thought about it a little more, I would probably yank Diaz back out of that deal.

Peavy and Linebrink

for

Giles, Ramirez, Davies, Devine

Devine is a throw-in. Maybe I should be thinking more highly of Devine than I do. I dunno. Getting Jake Peavy… now that would be an upgrade to the rotation.

By Glass Half Full

November 14, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this

My problem with HoRam is simple…how long do you hold onto a guy who could be great IF he stayed healthly a’la Kerry Wood?

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

Oh, okay DOB, $9-$10mil is still ridiculous though for Vicente Padilla. So do you think pitchers like Ohka, Armas Jr., Woody Williams, and Adam Eaton will command the same salary???

By nathan

November 14, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

OH MY GOD!

This just in! ESPN is rumoring that Padilla has an offer from the Yankees for a 5 year 75 million dollar contract. But the Yankees are rumored to be “threatened” by the Red Sox. So they might be willing to sweeten the pot a little more if neccessary!

Sorry guys, (don especially), I couldn’t resist!

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

Oh, my god. The Red Sox just won the bid to talk to that Japanese pitcher with 51.1 million dollars. That’s right, 51.1 million just for the right to talk to him. They now have 30 days to sign him or they’re screwed. Guess who his agent is? That’s right, Boras. Know what Scotty’s only comment was? “Pitching, as usual, is at a premium.” How, HOW can an organization be so fundamentally stupid and still be reasonably competetive? When this is all said and done and Boras gets his money, this whole deal will make Steinbrenner look reasonable. Pathetic. The Red Sox better hope this guy goes 180-30 for them with an ERA under 1.5.

By Stinky

November 14, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

John Smoltz was 7th in the Cy Young voting. That’s not quite top 5, is it? He had a total of 3 points, I think. What do you think, DOB, was he a legit contender?

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this

But KC, you are not making any sense… In one breath you are saying that, given a FULL YEAR you believe HoRam can be 17-8 with a mid 3ERA. But, one breath later, you say you are discounting the 2005 season as an aberration?!?

So, in other words, you say he would be Cy Young Potential (look at Brandon Webb, his numbers in 2006 are just about identical to the 17-8 with a mid 3ERA you claim HoRam can pull off) if he could play a full season. AND THEN YOU DISCREDIT THE ONLY FULL SEASON HORAM HAS PLAYED IN HIS MAJOR LEAGUE CAREER!!!!

DON’T YOU SEE THE FALLACY IN YOUR ARGUMENT! 2005 SHOULD BE THE ONLY SEASON YOU DON’T WRITE OFF AS AN ABERRATION CUZ IT WAS HIS ONLY FULL SEASON!

By nathan

November 14, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

ANOTHER NEWS FLASH from ESPN!

In the aftermath of the Red Sox paying 51 million to talk to the Japanese pitcher. The Yankees have upped their offer to Padilla! They now will give him 52 million just to come sit and talk with them (Steinbrenner doesn’t like to be undone!), and the STILL have the 5 year 75 million dollar offer on the table! Making the grand total of the deal worth 127 million dollars over 5 years! Incredible STUFF!

By DonCoburleone

November 14, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

Nathan are you serious about the Padilla rumor???

By Tony Clifton

November 14, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

DOB slob rob bob glob fob. Thems all words that rhymes with DOB.

And DOB, what a stupid moniker. Why do you let yourself be called such a silly wanker name like “DOB”? Please, for the love of Kurt Loder, announce your presence of authority with something other than a name that sounds like half the name of that guy who does that voice in SpongeBob Squarepants.

And I think you do like sweet cornbread.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this

Grinch

On the surface 52 million does seem like an aweful LOT just to negotiate with the guy. But I saw something the other night, don’t remember if I read it, or saw it on ESPN, but “whatever” it was I saw or read, was talking about all of the marketing possiblities that the Red Sox (or whomever won the bid), would have. It essentially puts the RED SOX on the map (not to mention everybody’s TV) when this guy starts (I still can’t remember his name - don’t really case since he won’t be a Brave. LOL). Remember when Nomo came over, how they said THE WHOLE COUNTRY went out of their way to stay up or set their VCR’s to record the games in which Nomo started? How many Japanese fans will be buying a Red Sox jersey and or hat. Not to mention the ones that will come to Boston on their trips to the USA just to watch him pitch in the “major leagues”. Believe me, the Red Sox won’t be “hurting” to recover the cash they just spent. Consider it 52 million dollars spent on advertising in Japan.

Still, it’s pretty damn rediculous. Nice touch though for him to sign with Boras. Don’t ya think?

It’s really no different than what Hicks was doing when he signed Arod for 250 million. I remember reading that he sold the naming rights of the Ballpark at Arlington to whatever bank bought it at that time (Ameriquest park at Arlington now ownes it, were they the ones), for somthing like 200 or 300 million dollars. So really, he was just spending his “profit” from the naming rights on Arod. Technically a sound investment at the time. He got him, and the Mariners lost him. As it turns out, it was a gamble he lost on, but not really.

By nathan

November 14, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

NO DON it was a JOKE!

Sorry to pick on you, but DAMN, I’m funny sometimes! LOL!

By KC

November 14, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

DonC: Respectfully, you’re not listening to what I’m saying.

I said that I believe 2005 was an aberration. Given the way he pitched when healthy in ‘06… that’s what I believe.

In 2005 HoRam had some big time trouble with giving up the longball. This year, Roger McDowell worked with him to help him keep the ball down and even sink the ball a little bit. In 2006, his HR allowed per 9 innings were cut in half.

That’s a fact Don. Look up the numbers. The longball was the thing that absolutely killed him in ‘05, and with McDowell’s help, that’s been fixed. I believe 2005 was an aberration because it was the only season in his career so far of its kind. He didn’t give up homers like that in ’03, 04, or in 06.

And please keep in mind that I didn’t predict a 17 win, 3.50 ERA season from HoRam next year… I just said that I think he’s capable of that and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he did it. Even if he doesn’t put up numbers that impressive, I think if he’s healthy in 2007, he’ll surprise people like you. If he can stay off the shelf… I guess we’ll find out.

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this

Nathan, that was kind of bizzare that both of us posted a post at exactly the same minute that started with “Oh, my God.” Synchronicity is a strange thing. Yeah, my reaction was kind of knee-jerk and I suppose what you say makes sense. Still, that sets a really crappy example for everyone else involving overpaying. Things are just spinning out of control, and I’d be willing to bet our payroll stays the same at least another 2-3 years.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 14, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

this journalist has important baseball matters to discuss and has no time to counter-act the ugly blogger. perhaps dob will identify him in all his names. this will draw a letter, however. and how is ms. cox chambers? canned hams holding up?

now, bird trivia: what cardinal species sports a flat bill?

now, more bird trivia: the maximum speed of a chicken is 9 mph.

if a computer slips into a tub of water what is it called?

By kinley

November 14, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

Don, I see your point but there aren’t many seasons in which a 16-game winner also wins a Cy Young award. Greg Maddux is the last guy (before Webb) to win as little as 16 games AND the Cy Young, but he did that with a 1.56 ERA in ‘94.

I see where you’re coming from, but I’d venture to say that HoRam does have the POTENTIAL (given a healthy season, and I’ll admit that’s a big if) to post 15-17 wins with an ERA of anywhere from 3.50 to 4.00, especially with the help of an offense that can mash.

But I’d never allow myself to dream that HoRam would ever be in serious contention for a Cy.

By brian

November 14, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this

Where does this sweet cornbread come from DOB? You mention North Carolina but the only place you will sweet cornbread in North Carolina is at K&W, and now at Lucky 32s. Maybe I am spoiled with family from Roxboro where the skillet has been passed down. Now they can make some cornbread.

With pitching going at such a high premium, it makes Hudson’s contract and trade not look too bad, even with his subpar season. I think when GMs get sticker shock when the market is set, somebody is going to see if the Braves want to move Hudson. Seeing what Padilla is going to sign for makes me want to keep Hudson and hope for a turnaround because unless the Braves get overwhelmed by an offer, we are not going to be able to replace him by anything better on the free agent market

By journalist jimmy smith

November 14, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

“Torii Hunter long has been the closest thing to a shut-down cornerback in Major League Baseball. Most fly balls and line drives hit to his area don’t become hits. Last season,he couldn’t run on his toes and track balls with his usual aplomb. But managers across the American League still view Hunter as an elite center fielder, and they voted him his sixth consecutive Gold Glove Award, it was announced Thursday.”

overcoming toe adversity makes this journalist want to cry.

braves trivia: name a former brave with 12 fingers and 12 toes.

name a brave with too few toes - (maybe a rumor, maybe not).

name a two-toed brave.

why knock-a-homa? why not tontoe?

toes are not to be trifled with.

By Bob, journalist

November 14, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this

Jimmy Smith, it’s been ‘bout 50 years since I’ve used it but I’m assume that you’re talking about the back way to Mr Gordy’s place.

Stinky, go to bed!

David O’B … off topic, but there’s only one “best” kind of cornbread … most folks will tell you, it’s the kind their mama makes … or used to make! In Middle Tennessee, Mama’s folks ate nothing but biscuits and hotwater cornbread (my favorite), made with white cornmeal … and fed “regular” cornbread, made with yellow cornmeal, to the chickens and hogs …. while the reverse was true with my father’s side of the family in North Georgia. Nothing was better than biscuits, eggs, country ham and red-eye gravy for breakfast … and listening to Hank Sr. on the hand cranked Victrola.

By Bob, journalist

November 14, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

Bank the 51 million and retire … why play when 51 million equates to a healthy perpetuity for you, your children, your grandchildren, … your great-great-greatgrandchildren … and if you tire of the wealth or don’t have children … my grandchildren could certainly use some help!

By kinley

November 14, 2006 10:11 PM | Link to this

Bob, my mom grew up in middle Tennessee too, near Goodlettsville. She’s always talking about their biscuits and hot water cornbread. And you’re right, that’s without a doubt the best breakfast EVER. It’s what we always eat on Christmas morning. Freakin amazing

By nathan

November 14, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

da-da-da-da-DA! da-da da-da- DA!

Name that tune!

By Carolina Lady

November 14, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

Journalist Bob, it is indeed wonderful to have you back again! Tell your nephew he is back in my good graces now! :-))

jjs, you’ve done it again. :-))

Lew, breakfast was super delicious! I am totally spoiled against even thinking about any other syrup!! Those here were grinnin’ ear to ear this morning!! :-)

DOB, being from North Carolina, I know your mama doesn’t make sweet cornbread! Bet she used an iron skillet, didn’t she? I have a #10 iron pan that belonged to my great-grandmother and the thing is so heavy I can barely pick it up! But it sure makes the best, tenderest cornbread you’ll ever taste! :-))

51 million just to talk to somebody? Insanity. Or having more money than you have good sense! If the owners had any sense at all, NONE of them would tender an offer. Then see how bad the guy wants to pitch in US MLB. He’d get a big enough contract to take care of a whole town anyway. Mercy!!

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

Bob (journalist), this sounds almost too good to be true: listening to Hank Sr. on the hand cranked Victrola.

If you had that pleasure in your lifetime, that’s rich experience, indeed. I’m envious. We’ve got Ipods and CDs. I’d take Hank on a hand-cranked Victrola _ well, at least once in a while.

By TheWyzyrd

November 14, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

DOB, Did the Braves put a bid in for the Japanese lefthander?

By Lew

November 14, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

KC-I just checked this year’s ERA leaders and I was shocked at how bad they were. I concede you have a point. 28 pitchers in all of the ML’s under 4 runs a game. Totally disgusting and discouraging. I apologize, Dude, for doubting your sanity. I still think Horacio is injury prone and we can use the money to get someone whose ERA is lower than 4.5, though. If there is such a creature. Anyone have a spare $51.1 mil to negotiate with someone from Japan?

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 10:36 PM | Link to this

Tony Clifton, you’re funny, dude. No, really. Now get to bed now. And you can call me whatever you want, junior. Just make sure to follow it with “Sir.” Sweet cornbread. Yeah, whatever….

Carolina Lady, you should’ve seen my ex’s reaction when we went to my grandmother’s wake a few years back and the ex saw the food spread laid out at the church. Some of the best food imaginable (it happened to be the day before Thanksgiving, but what really struck her was how almost everything was fried _ including the cornbread. But she ate it and loved it.

Friend cornbread, sizzling in the oil….

Brian, enough with sweet cornbread. I don’t even know what it is. Apparently it’s a “Yankee” thing. I really haven’t a clue…

JJS, we’ll know tomorrow when the tech people can do the search for me. The person who can answer the question isn’t in nights….

Was Smoltz a legit contender? I don’t know, I guess enough for someone to give him a vote. I have no idea. I don’t think I wouldn’t have voted him top 3. I thought he was a legit contender during his winning streak, before his terrible three-game stretch in September eliminated any chance he had….

By journalist jimmy smith

November 14, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

hint: 3rd street. is this the real bob? talks a good country ham but doesn’t know where the tunnel is? not so sure …

now, one more test … on what street did mr. peanut pass out samples? (not jimmy carter, the real mr. peanut).

now, baseball … will the braves have a humidor next season and who will be responsible for placing balls in the humidor? grinch will probably be the one to answer this one. not sure, but most likely.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

Actually, I’m much more partial to hushpuppies over cornbread _ sweet, white or otherwise. Just for the few of you who are chronicling these matters. Coffee _ black, no sweetener. Tea _ definitely sweetened.

Eware, I was at my man Don’s used-record store (Ella Guru) tonight and found a Bernard Fanning CD. Listened and liked it, but didn’t do enough for me to buy it. You should try to download something by this band Lucero, which happens to be playing Saturday at Variety (can’t go, I’m going to the Heat-Hawks game). They’re a really, really good band from North Carolina, real low-fi, lead singer’s got a ragged voice, but endearing country edge to it. Wouldn’t really know who to compare them to.

By Carolina Lady

November 14, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

DOB, lol!! I know exactly what you mean!! The ladies outdo themselves for wakes and church socials, don’t they? Brings back so many wonderful memories. My grandmother used to make us eat before we went so we wouldn’t eat so much and embarrass her! That was one precious lady!! :-))

By nathan

November 14, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

COME ON PEOPLE!

NOBODY CAN NAME THAT TUNE? What kind of Braves fans are you, anyhow?

Come on DOB you’re the music lover.

By Jake The Snake

November 14, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Travis Smith= Journeyman reliever/spot starter who has had two cups of coffee with Atlanta.

Travis Haney= Your fellow beat writer from Morris News Service.

When did you live in Memphis?

Jake The Snake.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

Oh, and amidst all the pertinent talk about sweet cornbread and the astute comments from Tony Clifton “and” the fake JJS “and” that one other strange dude, I forgot to mention what I logged on for in the first place:

I’m told the bidding for Dave Roberts might already be moving out of the Braves’ reach, or at least beyond what they’re willing to spend for him. He’s likely to get a three-year deal, longer and for a higher salary than what the Braves want to spend for a guy who hasn’t been too durable….

Oh, and about Andruw _ the Braves aren’t shopping him. Giles, on the other hand, is being pursued by several teams, at least. He’s almost certainly going to be traded, though I wouldn’t bet on it happening this week.

By Jake The Snake

November 14, 2006 10:55 PM | Link to this

Lucero is from Memphis, not North Carolina.

They sound like Nirvana, if Nirvana was from Tennessee.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

Uh, that was “fried” cornbread, not “friend” cornbread, before certain individuals pounce on that and ask me about where it’s made.

or, go with sweet-friend cornbread, better yet.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this

Damn, dude, GREAT CATCH. And I can’t believe Travis hasn’t called me yet to rag me on callling him Travis Smith. That’s a sign of too much blogging, I think.

Travis Haney is about 6 inches taller than the bespectacled right-hander Travis Smith….

Lived in Memphis only a couple of years in 1974-76. Elvis was still alive, and we were at Graceland one day when a limo entered the front gate with tinted windows, etc. Though we had no idea if it were Him, to this day we (by brother and me) like to tell people it was The King. Maybe, but I doubt it.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 14, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

hushpuppies? with corn kernels or without? with onion or without? with peppers or without? much is to be determined. now, sweet cornbread is only a yankee thing and should receive no more attention on this blog. one more question … banana sandwich - with peanut butter and mayo? only peanut butter? only mayo? another southern delicacy. can find a bireley’s ornage to drink with it?

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this

Wow, Butler has a three-point lead over Indiana with a couple minutes left in this NIT Tip-off game at Indianapolis, in Kelvin Sampson’s second game as IU coach. If they get beat, there will be some furious Hoosiers…

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this

Jake, I’ve got Lucero’s “Attic Tapes” CD, been listening to it all week. Just got the “Tennessee” CD at Tower’s going-out-of-business sale, but haven’t listened to it yet (guess that should’ve been a clue as to where they were from, huh?) And got their newest one, with “Rogues” and couple other names in the title. Haven’t listened to it, either. But now I’m curious and will go put one on, because I gotta tell you _ Nirvana sounds absolutely NOTHING like the Attic Tapes CD I’ve been listening to. They must’ve really changed their sound, man, because this is a reissued thing from a small label, Liberty & Lament.

Anyway, Nirvana? Really? Gotta put one of those others on and hear that.

By Jake The Snake

November 14, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

Ha. You left Memphis before I was born!

And good call on Lucero, except the city of origin. They’re about as good as Memphis has to offer these days.

You should definitely skip the lame Hawks game and check out their live show. Lucero never disapponts.

Jake The Snake.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this

Says on the liner notes that they recorded this stuff in 1998, 99, 2000, bunch of it in home studios and some at Memphis Sound Works. Long time ago, so I guess they certainly could be rockin’ a lot harder now.

By Carolina Lady

November 14, 2006 11:15 PM | Link to this

jjs, will you clary something, please? What is “ornage”??

By Jake The Snake

November 14, 2006 11:16 PM | Link to this

The Nirvana comparison holds water.

Listen to “Tennessee” and “Nobody’s Darlings”.

Ben Nichols’s voice is raspy, rough, ragged, strained…but every scratch adds to its color, much like Kurt Cobain.

The raw quality of the recordings (Nobody’s Darlings recorded all live, with minimal overdubs) reminicient of Bleach and In Utero.

Just think of Nirvana, and substitute “Memphis” for “Seattle”, and “whiskey” for “heroin”.

Above all, it’s honest songwriting and lack of flashy presentation that makes both bands great.

And of course, being a Memphis boy myself, I have a biased opinion.

Jake

By Drummerdad

November 14, 2006 11:16 PM | Link to this

DOB, Hope you’re doing well and rested after the WS and the long season.

Personally, I think the Red Sox paying 51 mil for negotiating rights with that cat is absurd. Marketing bennys aside, it probably has as much to do with the spitting match between the owner and Steinbrenner as it does with baseball sense. Remember, before A-Rod went to the Yankees, the Red Sox got stiff armed in that deal, and they weren’t happy about it.

Any word on how the Daryll Ward talks are going?

Carolina Lady, one of the beautiful things of cooking in a cast iron skillet is the process of just getting the skillet to that well seasoned point for cooking. And, with all this talk of fried food, I’m surprised that Jounalist Jimmy hasn’t launched into talk of Wickman’s appetites and uniform size and such! Alton Brown was talking about cooking real cornbread on his show tonight. And then there are hush puppies.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

JJS, the hush puppies at Six Feet Under are outstanding, as are those at Dusty’s BBQ over here by the CDC and Emory (it’s a North Carolina-style BBQ place, owned by a couple of folks who moved to Atlanta from Goldsboro. They’ve got the pulled-pork BBQ with vinegar-based sauce, the Brunswick stew, hush puppies with onion, the whole thing).

By Wayne

November 14, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

Sorry to go off-topic here, but you hearing anything about the Braves maybe looking to deal Hudson?

By Carolina Lady

November 14, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

Drummerdad, you’re right about getting (and keeping) the pan seasoned!

That dratted clock is going to go off way before I’m ready for it to - so I’ll bid y’all good night! :-)

By journalist jimmy smith

November 14, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this

ornage is a secret ingredient in bireley’s orange drink that jimmy smith grew up with. now, this journalist has recommended sam & dave’s bbq-1 and bbq-2 in mayretta. they are a competition cooking team and just won a ga state championship in pork shoulders and will go on to competition in memphis. worth the drive to get some of this bbq. trust this journalist. ajc named them number one in atlanta. now, journalist has never seen a hush puppy there - only texas toast. oh, the humanity! wayne, it is okay to ask about hudson - after all this is a baseball blog. hudson is reported to have gnarly toes. reported by dob himself. not trade material with poor toe hygiene.

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

OK, Y’all; I’m back after a heartbreaking 2-point loss by the Hawks (and post-game absolution). Whatever their record winds up being, I guarantee nobody wants to play this team.

Jimmy Smith, the Cardinal (no, not Stanford) has a cone-shaped bill for breaking seeds. Perhaps you are referring to the Spoonbill? An exerpt from the Smithsonian website: “The Roseate Spoonbill is a wading bird. It uses its long, flat bill to scoop up fish, snails and other small creatures from the water. It strains water and muck from this food in the round end of the bill. (sounds like Wicky). The Spoonbill’s widely spread toes allow it to walk lightly across the beds of rivers and lakes.” Perhaps, uh, Chipper could take some advice from this bird when a’ huntin’. Then he would not need SAS or Red Goose shoes.

By Drummerdad

November 14, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

Robert Duvall has a line in “Open Range” about toe hygiene. Something about picking ‘em downwind from everybody else.

By Rosalynn

November 14, 2006 11:46 PM | Link to this

Goodnight, Carolina Lady. Didn’t we meet years ago? Jimma noticed he was mentioned in tonight’s blog with Mr. Peanut. Jimma has nothing against Mr. Peanut but Jimma does not like to be called Mr. Peanut. He was once leader of the free world (Jimma not Mr. Peanut). Jimma likes me to call him “Skippa”. Did I mention he has a subamarine named after him? The USS Jimma Carter. Uh, oh, gotta go. Jimma wants to play submarine commandah again. “Coming Skippa. Skippa, I will be right theah. Oh, SKIPPA!”

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this

Jake the Snake, I’m back with my report. After listening to good portions of both the “Tennessee” and “Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers” CDs by Lucero, I’ll say they rock a lot more than they did in the low-fi “The Attic Tapes” CD I first purchased, but I’m not hearing the Nirvana comparision you made. At times on some slow songs they sound like Nirvana’s “Unplugged” show on MTV, but never do they sound like full-on, wall-of-sonic-sound Nirvana. Nirvana’s best was a thunderous sound, and the fast-slow thing also not employed by Lucero. The dude’s voice does sound a bit like Cobain’s with a Southern accent, but sounds more like Patterson Hood of the Drive-By Truckers.

I’d compare them a lot more to bands including the Truckers, early Springsteen, the Replacements and even some Pixies. And those are compliments, for sure. I like ‘em. Gonna have to give ‘em a lot more listens.

Butler beat IU. And Grinch, did you see the end of that Hawks game? They really are a ton improved over last season. Looking forward to seeing ‘em play the Heat Saturday.

By The Grinch

November 14, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, agree, Six Feet Under’s hushpuppy’s are good for an Atlanta restaurant (yes, they have onion). I guess I’m just spoiled on South Ga. cookin’, where good hushpuppies and good BBQ aren’t cause for celebration, but an act of normality. Now that I’ve been gone six months, I’m starting to realize what I’m missing. I guess it just trips me out when an Atlanta restaurant (any one; not singling anyone out) gets something right and gets written up in the paper and charges lots of money for a dish that three out of four people get right for 10% of the cost just about every day/night for their daily gatherings in the country. My most recent ex’s mom would whip you up something at 10:00 at night on the spot that would make headlines here. Just goes to show, Atlanta really isn’t Georgia (which both parties are proud of).

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2006 11:57 PM | Link to this

Wayne, not hearing anything about Hudson being dangled. Nothing whatsoever. Not to say it’s not possible, but haven’t heard any rumors at all along those lines.

By flbravesgirl

November 14, 2006 11:59 PM | Link to this

Bob and CL have returned! Welcome back!

Grinch, speaking of Christmas, isn’t it almost time for you to head to Universal Studios?

By journalist jimmy smith

November 15, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

answer to earlier trivia question: the cardinal with a flat bill is anthony reyes. he reportedly irons his bill. sounds painful but he has had some playoff success. perhaps if glavine’s bill was ironed …

now, fried foods and wicky. oh, the humanity! oh, the obesity!

now, grinch - were chipper to walk in the woods with widely spread toes, the question would be where do the toes spread? four separations? three separations? or, (and keep in mind this is only a rumor, not sure) two separations of the toes? and if these toes were mired in river muck would they come up individually or as a group(s)? and one more thing … what kind of tracks would uh, chipper leave on the river bank? much to be considered here. the only way we will find out is to be invited to the double dime ranch and that costs $15,000 with an autograph.

wait a minute. tracks? perhaps the se separations can be measured. missing toes? missing link? oh, the humanity!

no, not suggesting anything. just saying, missing link? good with a club. much to consider.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 15, 2006 12:09 AM | Link to this

DOB you’re still a presumptuous ba$tard!!!…A*******clown!

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 12:15 AM | Link to this

FBG, I’m afraid it hasn’t been that easy of late. While I consider my niche in the Christmas tradition of America secure to an extent, there are others trying to elbow their way into the Grinch’s territory. They will be dealt with harshly, and rest assured I will be reinventing myself soon in a way that will bring naked fear into the hearts of the stoutest whos. I will have their roast beast.

DOB, the Hawks are still three years younger in average age than the next closest team. They’re showing a hell of a resilliancy and pushing every team they play to the final second, and often further. I have high hoops…I mean hopes.

By DonCoburleone

November 15, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this

Hey, has anyone considered the possibility of the Braves trading Edgar Renteria? I know Boston is paying alot of his salary, but a guy like him could get something good in return… How about Edgar Renteria to ChiSox for Podsednik and a prospect… or just make those 2 the center of a 4 or 5 player deal… DO SOMETHING!!!

DOB, does he have 2 years left on his contract, or is he signed through 2009? If he’s signed through 2009 I wouldn’t trade him.

By Jamie in Richmond

November 15, 2006 12:20 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Few questions about the bench. Are the Braves any closer to finalizing with D. Ward? He’s gotta be the centerpiece of that 07 bench. Speaking of which, is Orr penciled in to keep his job or do you think Tony Pena has a legit chance to take Orr’s roster spot (obviously TP hasnt proven he can hit at the big league level yet, but his ability to step in and play SS far exceeds Pete’s and as it stands now with Betemit gone, Orr is the closest thing to a reserve SS-not a comfortable thought)?

Thanks David.

By DonCoburleone

November 15, 2006 12:25 AM | Link to this

Edgar’s making 10mil but Boston’s paying like 3 of it… Podsedniks going into his last year of arbitration I think… making 2.25mil…

By DonCoburleone

November 15, 2006 01:16 AM | Link to this

The Yankees are planning to explore the free-agent market, with names such as Barry Zito, Jason Schmidt and Gil Meche already catching their attention. But there’s going to be fierce competition for pitchers. For example, at least 17 teams have expressed interest in Meche, including four of the five teams in the AL East. Five of those teams told Meche’s agent he was their No. 1 free-agent priority, with offers expected to be tendered as soon as today.

By DonCoburleone

November 15, 2006 01:20 AM | Link to this

The New York Yankees are turning their attention to other free-agent pitchers, including Randy Wolf, who spent the last eight seasons with the Phillies. Wolf shares an agent with Mike Mussina, whom the Yankees are attempting to re-sign, and there have been indications that the Yanks could be trying to work a deal with Wolf, too.v

http://www.benmaller.com/#mlbrumorsnotes

By DonCoburleone

November 15, 2006 01:22 AM | Link to this

The Red Sox might not have the Blue Jays to worry about as competition for free agent shortstop Julio Lugo. According to talk here, the Jays decided to turn their attention to less expensive options after figuring they were unlikely to outbid the Sox, who always have liked Lugo. Lugo is expected to seek a four-year deal worth approximately $8 million a year.

By DonCoburleone

November 15, 2006 01:24 AM | Link to this

The Mets will keep their eyes on the free-agent market, too. But they’re also interested in exploring trade possibilities. The White Sox are willing to part with one of their starters — either Javier Vazquez, Freddy Garcia, Mark Buehrle or, in a real long shot, Jose Contreras — if they can get relief help. The Mets could consider dealing somebody such as Aaron Heilman to get the starter they feel can help them. GM Omar Minaya knows Vazquez, the former Yankees flameout, from their time together in Montreal.

Posted November 14, by Ben Maller

http://www.benmaller.com/#mlbrumorsnotes

By DonCoburleone

November 15, 2006 01:28 AM | Link to this

Dave Roberts’ agent, John Boggs, said yesterday that the Mets and 12 other clubs had expressed interest in the left fielder. The 34-year-old hit .293 with two homers and 44 RBIs for the Padres this past season.

Posted November 14, by Ben Maller

By DonCoburleone

November 15, 2006 01:36 AM | Link to this

Sensitive New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez must think the baseball world is against him. It was tough enough to deal with jeering home fans and the critical Big Apple media last season, but now the managers and coaches have snubbed him. They picked the Silver Sluggers announced last week. The award goes to the best hitter at every position in each of the two major leagues. Every selection was perfectly logical based on statistics except American League third baseman, where Chicago’s Joe Crede somehow outpolled A-Rod:

CREDE — .283 batting average, 30 HRs, 94 RBI, .323 on-base percentage, .506 slugging percentage in 150 games.

RODRIGUEZ — .290 batting average, 35 HRs, 121 RBI, .392 on-base percentage, .523 slugging percentage in 154 games.

Posted November 14, by Ben Maller

By DonCoburleone

November 15, 2006 01:38 AM | Link to this

I love how they snubbed ARod, that’s great…

By JM

November 15, 2006 01:40 AM | Link to this

Rows and floes of angel hair And ice cream castles in the air And feather canyons evrywhere Ive looked at clouds that way

But now they only block the sun They rain and snow on evryone So many things I would have done But clouds got in my way Ive looked at clouds from both sides now From up and down, and still somehow Its cloud illusions I recall I really dont know clouds at all

Moons and junes and ferris wheels The dizzy dancing way you feel As evry fairy tale comes real Ive looked at love that way

But now its just another show You leave em laughing when you go And if you care, dont let them know Dont give yourself away

Ive looked at love from both sides now From give and take, and still somehow Its loves illusions I recall I really dont know love at all

Tears and fears and feeling proud To say I love you right out loud Dreams and schemes and circus crowds Ive looked at life that way

But now old friends are acting strange They shake their heads, they say Ive changed Well somethings lost, but somethings gained In living evry day

Ive looked at life from both sides now From win and lose and still somehow Its lifes illusions I recall I really dont know life at all Ive looked at life from both sides now From up and down, and still somehow Its lifes illusions I recall I really dont know life at all

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 02:22 AM | Link to this

DonC, that’s classic. $#%# A-Rod. I love it. Anyone else think he’s not getting his just desserts just because of a pre-concieved notion that he’s a dick? I guess it must be true. If even the patheticly fawning sports media short changes this a$$ monkey because of his personality (or lack thereof), that ought to set everyone straight. What a total waste of time and space. Here’s to you, blue lips; you and your pathetic attempt to fit in with the human race. You traded your privacy away when you signed that phat-a$$ contract, and now you’re subject to analysis by people like me. If you actually had a personality of any sort, you might remain unscathed. But you don’t. You’re about as authentic as New York salsa, Taiwanese quality and George Bush’s honesty. Try again, a$$-hole.

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 02:43 AM | Link to this

Sorry, Y’all; I thought the AJC would edit that. The sentiment’s the same, though. :-)

By Bob, journalist

November 15, 2006 03:37 AM | Link to this

David O’B, “hand cranked” was a necessity as BellBuckle (Bedford County) had no electricity in those days … dirt roads, kerosene lamps, tin roofs, well-water … good music … homemade whistles made from goose quills … it really was a rich experience … especially the food! I still have some (5) of the thick old records … scratchy, but uncracked and still pretty good “quality” … now, if I could only remember where I stored them.

If you had a penny for every person that saw Elvis while visiting Graceland … who didn’t … you could probably buy the Braves. However, it sounds like you may actually be one of the few that did!

Kelly Johnson might be the answer at the keystone position but he’s not exactly a slouch in the outfield either.

Jimmy,… well, we called it “the tunnel” … backway shortcut from the dorm to Mr. Frank Gordy’s Varsity … and to your car if you were a freshman without a permit … thought it was that to which you were referring.

I got free samples from Mr. Peanut on several occassions … a long time ago … makes me think of Mama when she was young … I can still picture him and the store … seems like the last time I remember seeing him, the store sign said something like “The Peanut Store” instead of Planters … but, I can’t really remember … it’s all running together … Broad, Marietta, Peachtree, Cain … if I had to guess, it would be somewhere around the 100-200 block of Peachtree, up from the old George Muse building at number 52 … I can list a bunch of places where it wasn’t.

Baseball: Grinch, do you think there’s any truth to the rumor that JS will sign Troilus and Cressida to play for the Braves … top notch players, those two … maybe a trade for Giles? Talk about the Curse of the Babe; it would be folly and ignorance that would cause him to attempt to so do … but, I’d like to see it all the same! Maybe Shaun has some stats on them!

My Lady, Thanks … it’s good to be back!

By Bravo Nam

November 15, 2006 05:56 AM | Link to this

As I said a couple of days back, the winners from baseball’s new period of prosperity is the Union, players, owners and MLB. Forget the fans and the game- if the Padilla’s, Robert’s et als, who are average players, command such ridiculous free agent prices- most fans can forget about their teams landing a marquee or even mediocre free agent.

Nevertheless, good news is closer at hand than we may think- with the increasing shrinkage of teams able to afford decent free agents, there’ll come a point in which some of these FAs will have to reduce their asking price coz there won’t be enough teams to afford them- players better make hay now, coz harder times are ahead- and teams that overspend on FAs now are really gonna get snakebit.

By Mark

November 15, 2006 07:38 AM | Link to this

Andruw Jones…..hummm..we need to let him play through the 2007 season and if we loose him to free agency , we loose him, at least that way, its a respectful good bye , he is a future hall of famer for sure if he reaches 500 homers in his career. he like most players has his weakness , very streaky hitter.He just never really ever matured in to the pure hitter we all thought. I know his homer totals are impressive and yes that center field play second to none.I dont know how free agents with a .265 avg. get 15 million and more a year..he s been here a good while now , we haven’t won a world championship with him.Isn’t that the goal, a very hard goal!

By paluka

November 15, 2006 07:58 AM | Link to this

Wouldn’t he Cardinals be interested in Hudson? Maybe the Yankees but who else considering his salary?

By eware

November 15, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this

DOB, I love Lucero, but I believe they’re from Memphis (my hometown, well Collierville). Tennessee is a great album. There newest one “Little Darlings” wasn’t that great.

Also, glad you got the chance to live in Memphis. How come you don’t ever give any props to the Rendevous? That’s my favorite bbq. But, I have to say that the atmosphere also plays a huge part.

By ncscoots

November 15, 2006 08:18 AM | Link to this

if the early returns are any indication of the marketplace for FA SP, then there’s a new dynamic at work, at least for fan expectations (I imagine MLB front offices already have all this dialed in, since they are the guys who set the market place anyway).

1 - Tim Hudson becomes much more attractive…to keep. Even if he only continues to perform at the level of the last two years (subpar for him), his contract will be at about market level for that performance. If he rebounds at all, the Braves will look like geniuses.

2 - SP under club control for 2 years or more at under market level become much more expensive in terms of trade value (at least, any of those SP that you might actually want). “Dontrelle? Sure. Give us your starting 1B and your entire AA roster.” It will take more ML-ready players and prospects to make one of those trades, and it will look to fans as if the club broke the bank to make the trade. Everyday-player-for-SP straight up would no longer seem uneven to me (depending on the players), and it always has in the past.

3 - Pitching prospects with ANY upside just made the “A” party list, both as keepers and as trade pieces. Since so many pitching prospects fail, I’d think clubs almost have to take a shot on any pitching prospect that has the least little edge. And may be willing to even ease those standards somewhat.

I don’t know that any of this is different from the marketplace realities of the past (pitching prospects have always been in demand, for example), but I do think the level of these marketplace forces has ratcheted up a notch. I confess that the early indications of the offers to FA SP was shocking. Were I a GM, I probably wouldn’t have gotten a second call from agents after my initial offers to the guys in DonC’s lists above. I would not have even been in the ballpark, excuse the expression :-)

By Lew

November 15, 2006 08:25 AM | Link to this

Mark-Keep in mind that Soriano only hit .277 this season. He will probably make over $17 million per year. Salaries are about to go insane. Pitchers especially.

By BravesFaninRockies

November 15, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this

nathan,

Re: Your post from 7:55 last night. No, a salary cap would not work in MLB unless you blew up the entire labor deal … and that ain’t happening.

If the NFL is the model, every MLB franchise would wind up with 3 or 4 players signed to multi-year contracts and then a lot of moving parts — guys signed to one-year deals who move from team to team so they could play under the cap. Some of the long-term contracts would be soaked up by players who are injured or past their prime, and the teams who are stuck with them could not go out and make a trade for a comparable player because of the cap.

Teams have no flexibility to build a cohesive roster of young players that can stick together for years (and I mean 5-6 years, not 2 or 3), if that’s what they want to do. The price goes up too fast.

If that’s the kind of game you want to see — real-live fantasy baseball — fine. I want none of it.

The current luxury tax system in MLB ain’t bad, and could get better if indeed low-spending teams had to surrender some of their revenue sharing money or (in the case of places like Pittsburgh) use it to retire the debt from the stadiums the taxpayers built for them. MLB should also spread around the TV wealth better, too.

No reason to ruin the game that gives teams the most flexibility to build the way they want — even if TW does drive you nuts.

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

Bravo Nam,

I don’t know if baseball’s prosperity has benefited the players and owners more than the fans or the game. I mean you can find article from pretty much any era spelling the doom of baseball due to high salaries. I recall reading an article from the late 1800’s saying how players aren’t worry about playing the game the “right” way anymore because of money.

Sure there is a lot more money changing hands, but the average baseball fan has more money also. Demand for baseball has gone up a lot, also. There are a lot of people out there willing to pay a monthly fee to watch any game they want and go to a few games a year and spend probably over $100 each time.

Prosperity has reached more sports fans along with MLB and the players.

As far as the free agent system, the problem is it’s not merely performance-based. In other words, a player is not just paid for the likelihood he will perform to a certain standard, but he is paid what a team feels he’s worth to that team. If a team had absolutely no CF and feels they are a mediocre CF away from the playoffs, they are probably more willing to pay a lot more for Dave Roberts than a team like the Royals or Devil Rays, who could benefit from having Roberts but Roberts wouldn’t make much of a difference.

And teams have always spent unwisely not just on free agents but on draft bonuses, etc. This is not the first or only era of unwise spending, it’s been happening since the beginning of baseball.

Another thing that causes teams to spend unwisely on free agents is that players for the most part first become free agents right as they are entering the decline phase of their careers. So a player who hit .300 with 40 homers and a .400 OBP will likely get a big contract but will likely start to decline toward the middle and end of that contract; his best years probably came right before he signed that big contract.

This is why Matsuzaka is so valuable—he is extremely young for a free agent (although he’s not a true free agent). A 26-year-old pitcher with a high 90’s fastball and several plus offspeed pitches is about as valuable as you can get. The Red Sox have the money and they know a very valuable commodity when they see it. Is $51.1 million just to negotiate too much? Well, depends on how you define too much. The Sox have the money and if they are going to spend that much there’s no better way to spend it than on a 26-year-old pitcher with a high 90’s fastball and several plus offspeed pitches.

…okay, that turned into a ramble. Sorry, Bravo Nam.

By Carroll

November 15, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

DOB,

you said:

Steven in MB: Are you SERIOUS about trading Hampton? The guy hasn’t pitched since the 2005 season and is owed $29.5 million for the 2006-07 seasons. Which general manager not under the influence of narcotics is going to trade for him?

Perhaps the same “under-the-influence” general manager willing to give Vincente freakin Padilla $10 mill a year for multiple years!

What about my question earlier about the Braves giving Eric Campbell the second base job?

By Carroll

November 15, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

Here’s an interesting snipit from an article in the Detroit Free Press:

“The Braves have a 27-year-old first baseman, Adam LaRoche, who hit .285 with 32 home runs and 90 RBIs in 2006. He plays adequate defense, earns a modest salary ($420,000 this year) and bats left-handed.

In other words, he’d be ideal for the Tigers. The only barrier to a deal would be Atlanta’s affinity for LaRoche. The Braves are reluctant to part with him, and would certainly demand a pitching-heavy return package.”

Man if we could dump ADDam LaDouche for some pitching, that would be a dream come true…then we could let Thorman and/or Diaz and/or Kelly Johnson play 1B, rather than having a zombie at 1B. Thoughts?

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

Carroll,

Can a “zombie” hit .285 AVG/.354 OBP/.561 SLG and make under $500,000 doing it?

I’m for trading LaRoche (or anybody) if the Braves can get as much bang for the buck, but I don’t know that they can.

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

Carroll,

Didn’t mean to get sarcastic, but LaRoche is actually a good hitter and a decent fielders. He makes one bonehead play and all the sudden he’s a “zombie”? I’ve seen him make some pretty good plays, too.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

From the San Diego Union-Tribune:

“And don’t expect Scott Linebrink to go to Atlanta for second baseman Marcus Giles.

“With the way the relief pitching is shaking out, it would be difficult for us to trade Linebrink,” said (SD GM Kevin) Towers. “Someone would really have to overpay. If we keep Linebrink, Giles won’t happen.” “

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 15, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

Journalist Jimmy, I’m not so sure that river bottom mud would be be a healthy treament for Chipper’s toes. Now I do know someone who inadvertently cured a life-long foot fungus problem by walking bare-foot across frozen bean-field stubble after getting his feet wet on a duck-hunting trip. But I would hate to see someone go on the 60 day DL for frostbite complications. Maybe It would turn his feet black and pain free like Adam Sandler’s on Mr. Deeds?

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 15, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

Grinch,

Joe Johnson ought to know something about defense. He played for Nolan Richardson. I do miss those days of “40 minutes of hell.” As opposed to the current style of “35 minutes of Heath, 5 minutes of catch-up.”

What’s Mrsissippi St. gonna have to offer for AR this weekend? I know I ask this every week, but I have tunnel vision in college football. I only see Hog-red.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 15, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

DOB,

I have been eyeballing Lucero for a while now, wondering what or who they were. If you say they have a hint of DBT sound, that’s good enough for me. I might have to check them out if I can find a c.d. somewhere. Which album do I need to start with?

By JasonInMaine

November 15, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

There probably isn’t much to it, but I thought I would at least share what I read from an article I found on Pro Sports Daily for those who haven’t seen it:

Here, though, there are always more people to meet and more proposals to assess. So, just as quickly as the Texas delegation stood, shook hands and walked away, another group from Atlanta arrived.

The Braves have a 27-year-old first baseman, Adam LaRoche, who hit .285 with 32 home runs and 90 RBIs in 2006. He plays adequate defense, earns a modest salary ($420,000 this year) and bats left-handed.

In other words, he’d be ideal for the Tigers. The only barrier to a deal would be Atlanta’s affinity for LaRoche. The Braves are reluctant to part with him, and would certainly demand a pitching-heavy return package.

The Tigers’ acquisition of a first baseman promises to be costly, either in players (through a trade) or dollars (through free agency). Dombrowski is pursuing multiple alternatives, and also met with Sam Levinson following his conference with the Braves.

Regards, Jason

By nathan

November 15, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

BravesFaninRockies

As frustrating as it would be to not be able to put a team together “the way you want” and keep it there for 5 or 6 years. The reward would be keeping everything on an even keel.

Make no mistake about it, the NFL is more popular than it has EVER been, due to competitive balance. When was the last time the WS winner started the next season off with the equivilant of the Steelers starting 2-6? Don’t Answer “after each Marlins WS victory”, because those were firesales, that wouldn’t have been neccessary with a salary cap. For starters the Marlins probably wouldn’t have been able to “buy” the first one, the way they did. In the NFL and NBA, you VERY RARLEY have teams not maximize what they can, salary wise, with the cap. So more than likely the 97 Marlins wouldn’t have had the “space” to add all of those guys.

To me the more compelling arguement as opposed to a “cap”, is the “floor”. When was the last time you had a team in the NFL or NBA, keep payroll at about 15 million for the whole roster (AND THEY ONLY HAVE 12 MAN ROSTERS IN THE NBA!)? NEVER! The way MLB’s “luxury tax” is set up is a JOKE! You have teams like the Marlins and Devil Rays crying BIG MARKET this, BIG MARKET that, when in reality, they are slashing the hell out of their payroll, still selling tickets and then at the end of the season, take their “profit sharing” check from the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, White Sox and Angels, etc…. with a smile on their face. Do they put that money back into payroll? Nope. Do they stick it aside to “save up” for a new stadium? Nope. They’d rathe have the tax payers pay for it. Nope that goes right into ownership’s “we are a bunch of free loading, cheap asses that don’t want to spend any money on the our product, to carry our own weight with the league, FUND!”

IMO, ANY/ALL money that a team gets from the luxury tax penalties that other teams pay out, should HAVE TO GO RIGHT BACK INTO SALARY. For instance, if the Marlins payroll was 20 million for a season, and they ended up getting 10 million in luxury tax money from the Yanks and others, their payroll should be required to increase to 30 million dollars. Of course the downside of this theory, is that if there is no players that they want to sign/resign/trade for, then what, you ask? TOUGH SH*T! Use it or LOSE IT. Give that money to another team willing to raise payroll. That would be like if all of the restaurants got together to form a union/luxury tax/profit sharing program, and the BIGGEST, BADDEST, fanciest restaurant spent a million dollars on their establishment, advertising, and most importantly, hired the MOST EXPENSIVE STAFF, money could buy (see the Yankees), and down the street, Joes hot dog stand spent about 1/20 of what the fancy restaurant did. Then at the end of the year, the Big Guys had to split all of their money with the other guys, just to “keep it fair”. WHAT? Are you kidding me? That’s like putting a bandaid on a decapitation victim.

I realize that the Yankees spend a billion dollars on payroll and the Marlins don’t. And if you look at the standings last year. there probably wasn’t 180 million dollar difference in the “results”. Yes, teams, if they do their homework and draft/sign/trade for the RIGHT players CAN be successful with little to no payroll. Money doesn’t guarantee you a championship. But it does lower the odds in your favor.

Listen, I understand that the richest of the rich, don’t want a salary cap. Justifiably so. After all, running the Yankees is the Boss’ business. He should be able to spend WHATEVER he wants on his business, shouldn’t he? This is America, right? The game of baseball is the GREATEST game of all of the major sports. Hands down, no questions asked. I LOVE IT. But other than Hockey (and who really cares about hockey anyhow?), it is the WORST RUN, least competitive of the 4. The NBA, has it’s definite haves and have not’s as well. But we’re still talkin about 12 man rosters. In basketball ONE GUY CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE on a nightly basis.

I just don’t and cannont believe that a cap “would ruin” baseball. Do you all like going into every season KNOWING the Devil Rays are gonna SUCK and the Yankees and Red Sox are probably gonna battle for the AL East crown? Why not let Tampa, Baltimore and Toronto move to the other divisions and JUST HAVE THE YANKEES AND RED SOX be the AL East. Because as long as there is NO CAP it’s gonna be a LONG time before any of the other three teams make the playoffs, or even make ANYBODY “think” they have a chance, in the case of Tampa Bay. But like I said, with the D-Rays there needs to be a BOTTOM limit for salaries also, or they will just continue to free-load.

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

nathan and BravesFaninRockies,

I don’t know if a salary cap is realistic. I can’t see the players ever agreeing on a salary cap, but who knows? I think the best solution would be splitting revenue 50/50 from each game where possible. If the Yankees sign a local TV deal, they should split it 50/50 with the teams they play each game. I think that would solve a lot of the disparity problems. Sure the Yankees and Red Sox would make more still, but the disparity would be much smaller.

By Bravo Nam

November 15, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

Shaun

I hear what you’re saying, but there are two points of mine you overlooked:

1). I’m not so much talking about fans suffering via paying high fees to pass through the gate as I’m talking about the majority of fans suffering through the current situation coz most teams will never ever be able to afford a Japanese star or marquee free agent. And the way things are going, many teams are not going to be able to afford an average free agent. If I’m a Kansas City fan, for example, I’ll never know what it’s like for my team to pick up a good free agent to provide some hope for the upcoming season, but I will know what it’s like to lose good players constantly through free agency.

2). In the last half of my post, I preempted your point already about people having warned of the demise of baseball since its inception. I noted that the worm will turn sooner than later. Currently, the situation sucks, but it won’t. Not down the track. There’s always a cyclical thing happen with the economics of baseball, coz to continue to provide exorbitant salaries to average players or even good ones is just not sustainable in the long run. It even ends up catching teams like the Mets and Dodgers. About the only ones who it won’t affect for as long as Steinbrenner is alive is the Stankees. If you only have a small pool of teams who can afford these astronomical salaries, eventually things counterbalance coz not all average to good players can go to these few teams-ultimately, it’s agents like Boras who do a disservice to future clients by setting the bar so high now- as basically nearly every team in baseball will find the current trend unsustainable and through an unintentional collusion process, they’ll force free agents to start taking less, and then the greed of agents, the union and players will come back to haunt them.

I think JS is one of the sharpest and most astute fiscal general managers in the modern era- notice how few free agents we’ve signed in recent years- and it’s just not about the 80 million budget- it’s much more- it’s about continuing to stock the farm system (by letting expensive free agents go, while not buying top shelf free agents in turn) AND being ready to pounce and take advantage when this current players’/agents’ market has the bottom drop out of it and reverts back to the advantage of the teams.

DOB

I’ve asked this a couple of times yet with no reply, but given the recent quotes from Towers on Linebrink, it makes me wonder again:

“Why on earth, prior to these quotes, were the Padres shopping Linebrink so hard?”

By TennesseePaul

November 15, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

DOB: Today’s Detroit papers are posting the following:
One person with knowledge of the talks said a Bonderman-for-Teixeira proposal was not discussed during the meeting… The Braves have a 27-year-old first baseman, Adam LaRoche, who hit .285 with 32 home runs and 90 RBIs in 2006

Is it possible that LaRoche could be dealt? If so, who would take his place? Even if not, who would you speculate would take his place…?

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 15, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Tennessee Paul — no, adam laroche won’t be traded, especially for bonderman. he’s too good — .285 (despite a horrid first half), 32 HR, and 90 RBI are great numbers. he also plays great defense. plus, he’s cheap, and will be for a few more years.

By TennesseePaul

November 15, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

nathan: ANY/ALL money that a team gets from the luxury tax penalties that other teams pay out, should HAVE TO GO RIGHT BACK INTO SALARY.

Players unions are the first to oppose a salary cap. It isn’t the owners. Salary caps keep money from the players, and the union doesn’t want that, so it isn’t going to happen. Forcing any and all revenue sharing and taxes to be spent only on payroll is a double edged sword. The union would love it. It would guarantee more money for the players. At the same time, the cost per player would increase negating the benefits of having more money for payroll. And, it isn’t guaranteed money for the next year. So, you have a raise of 10 million in one season, you sign a guy to play for 4 or 5 years and turns out, the money isn’t the same amount in the following 4 or 5 years, it’s less, and that player must be traded, or even worse, the team around that player must be traded.

One can complain about the penny pinchers in the sport. The best way to change the actions of the penny pincher is to not buy the product. Don’t go to the game. Let them pinch themselves into oblivion. They’ll either sale the team, or move the team. Or, the team is retracted and the league is smaller, producing more players in a smaller field and improving the quality of play. And, if anything good could come out of it, maybe the stupid wild card would be eliminated. Other than that though, it’s just the way the economics of the game works.

By Bravo Nam

November 15, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Props for you- you used to be a boring blogger- throwing stats around like they were going out of fashion- never felt like we got the real you- more a robot- in recent weeks I like the new Shaun we’re seeing, so keep it up.

Bloggers

This LaRoche/Detroit thing is a red herring- don’t waste a second thinking about it. No way known are the Bravos going to consider letting go of LaRoche- unless they are offered an UNBELIEVABLE deal- coz you just can’t get his kind of production for that kind of money.

By rammerjammer

November 15, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

LaRoche for Bonderman??? Only in our dreams, but if I was JS, I’d make that deal in a heartbeat. Where else you gonna get a 24-year-old top-of-the-rotation pitcher? Man, put Thorman at 1B and do the deal!

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

TennPaul, you asked is it possible that LaRoche could be dealt? Doesn’t jibe with anything I’ve heard. Makes no sense whatsoever.

By Don

November 15, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

I know I’m jumping to early conclusions, but the way things are sounding in the media and the rumor mills (Linebrink too valuable, Roberts price going up, LaRoche too valuable, free agency about to get too wild, A Jones/Hudson not being shopped), the Braves may be facing another off season of not making major moves. And, with the weak pitching staff, unstable left field situation, lack of speed, and pending free agents (Giles, A Jones), I don’t believe inactivity is a good thing. Geez, I know LaRoche is a good ball player and A Jones is a warrior, but the Braves are probably not going to get alot for Giles. And, if free agents aren’t a good option, where are the moves going to come from?

By rammerjammer

November 15, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

In my opinion, LaRoche is perfect trade bait. Very attractive to other teams, so that means we get a lot in return.

Folks, first basemen are a dime a dozen. Maybe Thorman plays there, maybe Diaz, heck, maybe Salty in a couple years.

But a guy like Bonderman changes everything. HUGE upside…improved every year since debuting in ‘03 and he just turned 24!

Look at our rotation. Right now, one guy under 30, James. Our best young prospect, Davies, was batting practice last season. Lerew, please. Anybody else? No, there isn’t.

Bonderman, or someone like him, fills a huge need. JS, if that deal is there, DO IT!

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

BravesFaninRockies, there is no way, no how, that the union will agree to any salary cap in the forseeable future. In fact, owners didn’t even bring it up this time around, so amicable and quick were the negotiations for a new labor agreement. Teams are making money, the sport has had record attendance three straight years, and there’s been seven different World Series winners in seven years. Why on earth would the sides even bother on an issue the union won’t budge on? That train left the station after the last labor agreement, when there was nearly another strike.

Again, it’s a dead issue, for all intents and purposes.

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Bravo Nam,

While it may be true a lot of teams can’t afford marquee free agents, many of the “marquee” free agents aren’t worth signing anyway.

Obviously a lower payroll does make it harder to contend and there should be something to ease disparity, but good management can help overcome that somewhat. Kansas City’s management is so bad it’s hard for them to overcome the disparity. But look at Oakland and Minnesota.

By geauxbraves2000

November 15, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

If I’m anyone else in the AL East, I wouldn’t be throwing money away either knowing I have absolutely no chance of winning the division. What’s the point of upping payroll to $50M or so and trying to compete w/$200M payrolls, it’s just a waste of money. So until MLB does something about the free spending of the Yankees & the Red Sox, I don’t blame the other three teams for keeping a low payroll.

If the Mets turn into the Yankees of the NL East, the Braves are going to be settling for second also. If you have the funds to go get anyone you want no matter the cost, well, that’s hard to compete with.

I’m not saying the Mets bought the division last year, for the Mets were a good all around team, offensively at least. But I’ve heard rumors of Zito, et al to the Mets, and if they continue to buy the best of the best, who else will have a chance?

I know a salary cap will not happen, but something needs to happen to allow all of the teams to be on a level playing field. Yes there have been seven different WS winners the last seven years, so maybe my argument does not carry much weight, but to go into a season knowing you have no chance to win, that just doesn’t seem fair to the team, the managment and their fans.

That’s my .02.

Geaux Braves!!

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this

eware, you gotta follow the chain, man. We went through an entire discussion of Lucero after that first post, me and Jake the Snake from Memphis.

I don’t give props to Rendevous because I’ve never eaten there. I was a kid when I lived there, and the folks didn’t have enough money to take the whole family to a place like that.

But my parents rave about the place. They went on “special occasions.”

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Oh, and Lucero is actually from Arkansas, but now based in Memphis.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

Shaun, you wrote: LaRoche is actually a good hitter and a decent fielder.

No teammate or opposing player, manager or coach would classify LaRoche as a “decent” fielder. He’s an excellent fielder. Just is.

By JasonInMaine

November 15, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

DOB,

But, it does fall in line with what JS has been saying…that they want and will get their rotation back to what it was in years past. I agree that LaRoche will not be dealt, but do you really think it makes no sense at all? A 24 year old RH top of the rotation guy for a 27 year old potential all-start 1B?

Regards,

Jason

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Rammerjammer wrote: “Folks, first basemen are a dime a dozen.”

Crappy ones are. Great fielding ones who can give you 30 homers and 90 or more RBIs are not.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

“Why on earth, prior to these quotes, were the Padres shopping Linebrink so hard?”

Because they’ve got 2-3 other great arms in their pen and because they had other needs to fill and he was and is their best trade piece. Towers is blowing smoke, if you ask me. He’ll trade him.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

It’s so hilarious to read how these “stories” arise from pure speculation. Look at the article Jason in Main quoted:

“Here, though, there are always more people to meet and more proposals to assess. So, just as quickly as the Texas delegation stood, shook hands and walked away, another group from Atlanta arrived.

“The Braves have a 27-year-old first baseman, Adam LaRoche, who hit .285 with 32 home runs and 90 RBIs in 2006. He plays adequate defense, earns a modest salary ($420,000 this year) and bats left-handed.

“In other words, he’d be ideal for the Tigers. The only barrier to a deal would be Atlanta’s affinity for LaRoche. The Braves are reluctant to part with him, and would certainly demand a pitching-heavy return package.

“The Tigers’ acquisition of a first baseman promises to be costly, either in players (through a trade) or dollars (through free agency). Dombrowski is pursuing multiple alternatives, and also met with Sam Levinson following his conference with the Braves.”

NOWHERE in this story is their a source, even an anonymous source, quoted saying that’s what the Tigers were talking to the Braves about. It’s 100 percent speculation _ Tigers need a 1B, Braves have a good one, so let’s put it together.

Folks, the Braves have a 1B making no money who fills a vital role in a lineup that will probably be without Giles and the following year without Andruw. LaRoche is affordable for another couple of years, at least. He’s not going to be traded this winter. And no one from any team has said he’s available.

Move on.

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

LaRoche is an excellent fielder, which just does more to prove my point. He isn’t a “zombie” like Carroll said and the Braves would have to get a lot in return.

By TennesseePaul

November 15, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

Bravo Nam: Nothing is out of the realm of possibility. Some trades are right on the edge though. For instance, Chipper will not be moved for anything short of the first born of the opposing GM. LaRoche though isn’t quite as untouchable. After last season, I don’t want to see him traded, but we do have a few 1B in the minors. Thorman has already been up and seen the big leagues. Just curious. Wondered if DOB had heard anything about it.

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Any chance the Braves go after Speier or Ted Lilly? They could be under-the-radar guys that the Braves may be able to get a reasonable cost (except there may be no more under-the-radar guys now days).

By BravesFaninRockies

November 15, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I agree with you that the cap ain’t happening (just like Bobby Cox will retire from managing only when he’s ready to do it, not because some blog commenters have a creepy fascination with his eventual demise).

I also believe it shouldn’t happen, for the reasons stated above. More equitable revenue sharing or a salary floor might be interesting alternatives, but they would only tweak the current system, which actually works pretty well.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, just read your post about Lucero. I started with “The Attic Tapes,” which was recored in 1998-2000, low-fi, country sounding, mostly acoustic. Since then they’ve definitely widened the sound, and DBTs definitely an influence or kindred spirits, whatever.

The new CD is really good, “Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers.”

By rammerjammer

November 15, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

Jason, EXACTLY. You got to give up something to get something.

We have first base options, and we have a potent enough offense to absorb a probable dropoff, but we have NO starting pitching options (well, none that are attractive - see previous post).

I think it’d be a terrific deal.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

Carroll, you think a GM wants to trade for Hampton and his $29.5 mill salary over the next two seasons becase Padilla got a big contract (I see no connection between the two), and you want to “dump” LaRoche because he has ADD and is “a zombie” at first base, even though his defense is lauded by everyone in the game. You’d rather have Diaz or Kelly Johnson, a guy who’s never played the position and who didn’t play at all last year. OK, just wanted to make sure we’re clear.

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

Folks, first basemen are a dime a dozen.

Why would anyone want to trade a good young pitcher for one, then?

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer and Jason,

If I’m the Tigers, there is no way I’d give up Bonderman for LaRoche. No way!

Maybe Texiera or someone like that but not LaRoche.

By Kevin Johnson

November 15, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

you take a.jones, c.jones. or franceour out of that line up and laroche isn’t going to put up the same numbers, laroche chokes under pressure, he comes up with a big hit now and again but not consistently, he will not hit 30+hr’s again, you trade him now , why he still has top value, yes he is low pay is probably the only thing that keeps him here but at the same time, it makes him very inviting to other teams, i say you throw him in for a deal for a crawford type of player, 1b isn’t that difficult, i played ball for 25 years, he is a good firstbaseman but he is someone we could afford to be without, you have thorman in the mix as well, laroche is such a great defensive player he forgets to hustle on every play, we need a good leadoff hitter, a good leadoff hitter and someone with as much speed as a crawford can change the whole make up of the game, and yes i saw langerhans numbers, i don’t have that much faith built up in johnson, or langerhans to be honest, but i dont’ have any in laroche either, i think diaz can be a solid .295-.300 hitter through an entire year, and i think thorman as the potential to put up the same numbers laroche does but be even more consistent

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Kevin Johnson,

Wow. You really think the D-Rays would give up Crawford for LaRoche?

Think about it, if firstbasemen are easy to find, why would anyone trade a great young player for one like LaRoche? Yes, LaRoche is a very good player but he’s not one of the best firstbasemen in the league.

And the Braves are just fine stuck with LaRoche. His plate discipline and power are solid and his defense is great. I don’t think things that make him productive—his plate discipline, power and defense—would change in a different lineup.

By Matthew

November 15, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Carroll:

Did you stop watching Laroche after the bonehead play with Nick Johnson? You must have. You’re the only one who is still using his disability as a way to poke fun at him. (1) Everyone else stopped using those names probably because they are dumb and inaccurate and (2) even if they were appropriate, they aren’t correct. Laroche should have been the NL Gold Glove 1B. Pujols? Are you freaking kidding me? He’s a glorifed DH who was still learning how to play first base this season. Great hitter, but no glove. Laroche hit for better average and OBP than most 1B in the NL, and you want to keep riding him for one error several months ago? Ludicrous.

Sorry for the rant.

Hillbilly, Nolan kicked himself out of Hogland and we both know it. I like his defensive style but am loving not having to listen to his offensive mouth. And don’t look now, but Stan the Man will have his Hogs in the Sweet 16 or better this year! Football Hogs are ready to slaughter the dawgs of Missy State, while the b-ball Hogs deal with Stephen F. Austin (I think).

What a great time to be a Hog fan!

By Head Coach

November 15, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

Mike Mussina is off the market , he just resigned with the Evil Empire(Yankees) for two more years. You want under the radar ? It doesn’t get anymore under the radar or cheaper than Mark Mulder.

By Lew

November 15, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

Carroll-You want thoughts? You’re insane for wanting to dump LaRoche. He hit 32 HR and knocked in over 90 runs. He will barely make $2 mil this season and has two more cheap years after this. No one you mentioned can come close to replacing these numbers. Those thoughts work for you?

By Troy

November 15, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

We’re hanging on to LaRoche, he’s an excellent player. McCann, Franceour, and LaRoche are our core for the next few years none of those guys will go anywhere. They would already be hitting 3,4,5,respectively if not for A.J and C.J

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Head Coach,

I guess a pitcher who has been basically a little better than average and will likely want over $10 million a year is “under the radar.”

By rammerjammer

November 15, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

I don’t think the Tigers would do it either, because they could probably get more.

In asking why they would let Bonderman go, I believe he’s arbitration-eligible, so LaRoche would be a financial savings for them as well as a huge upgrade to 1B.

They also have some depth in their rotation, but few good 1b options (kinda like us, in reverse).

But DOB says “move on,” so I won’t obsess. Still, be prepared. JS can’t upgrade the pitching on Giles alone.

By Lew

November 15, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

Kevin Johnson-You say LaRoche will never hit 30 HR again after he just did it and claim Thorman( who has not given any indication of the capability)would put up better numbers. Just what do you base this on? I question your baseball knowledge, Dude. That one makes damn little sense, if any.

By mariner

November 15, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

There may be no truth at all to this bonderman for LaRoche speculation. But, even if there is no merit to the rumor, the idea of Bonderman for LaRoche doesn’t seem crazy to me. I agree that LaRoche is a good first baseman with both the bat and the glove. But, if I had a chance to trade my number 7 hitter for a good, young, cheap starting pitcher, I’d do it. And Shaun, you think Texiera is that much better than LaRoche? Look at thier numbers from last year. There isn’t much to separate them except Texiera makes $6,000,000 more and is a swith hitter. LaRoche hit for a higher average, higher slugging percentage, and only one less homer.

By kinley

November 15, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

La Roche, not one of the best first basemen in the league?

I’d put La Roche in the No. 5 spot, if I were to rank NL first basemen. Right behind Pujols, Howard, Lee and Berkman (if you want to call Berkman a full-time 1B).

By Head Coach

November 15, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

shaun , shut your F.U.C.K.I.N.G. hole. Everytime you open it , flies come out. Thank you.

By Salty55

November 15, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

HC Thanks for showing everyone how to skirt the censors! What a quality post!

By Lew

November 15, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

Head Roach-Go get over your overly bombastic self.

By Matthew

November 15, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

Okay, I need some clarification. How long do the GMs meet, just this week? How are the winter meetings different from the GM meetings that are going on now?

Sorry for my ignorance. Any insight would be great. Thanks.

Oh, by the way. Welcome back Bob!

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

Even if the Tigers have to pay Bonderman more, he’s still a young pitcher so he’s worth it. I don’t think the financial savings for LaRoche is worth giving up a good young pitcher.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

The Pad’s just acquired a couple more arms for their ‘pen. Is this the precursor for a deal for Giles?

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

mariner,

Mark Teixeira’s career averages: .282 AVG/.364 OBP/ .534 SLG

Adam LaRoche’s best season: .285 AVG/ .354 OBP/ .561 SLG

At the very least an average season from Teixeira is as good as LaRoche at his best so far.

Teixeira is one of the best hitters in the game, LaRoche is a good firstbaseman.

I love it that the Braves have a player like LaRoche. But if I had Bonderman and needed a firstbaseman, I would ask for someone like Teixeira.

By tyger

November 15, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Andruw doesnt owe the Braves anything! He shouldnt accept one penny less than his FMV. He gave the Braves a discount already and how did they repay him?

They placed him on waivers and attempted to trade him a couple weeks before attaining his 10-5 status. They didnt do that to Smoltzie or Chipper, but whose been more productive?

Yet, they still want to lowball him. He should invoke his no trade clause to the very end and get his FMV. Let the Braves replace him with whomever their latest GWH (Great White Hope) is at the time.

Oh, I forgot, it’s just business. Well, there’s a way to do business that doesnt screw people over while still maintaining your goals, it’s done everyday, some just choose to take the “unconscious” route.

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Head Coach,

Why so much anger? Can’t handle the facts? Does it upset you that I said Mulder has been merely a good pitcher but is going to ask for probably $10-12 million a year and implied it would be stupid to sign him to a contract that large?

By journalist jimmy smith

November 15, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

yes, it is bob. the third street tunnel on the ga tech campus would not be known to all. and mr. peanut, was a short walk from rich’s downtown store - whitehall street as this journalist remembers. is there still a whitehall street? journalist must ask shirley franklin when journalist sees shirley franklin. now, journalist remembers a big roaster inside this peanut store. now, baseball … still wanting to trade laroche, huh? this journalist thinks trades shoulb be made to strengthen a team and not sure how trading laroche would strengthen the infield or the offense. now, jordan … not playing him at first base should strengthen the team. now, toe muck … not really, just liked saying toe muck. and finally, lucero … american league, right?

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Actually, Head Coach, Mulder may want more than $10-12 million.

By rammerjammer

November 15, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I agree. Interesting, though, that the Detroit paper was openly speculating about him leaving.

I understand DOB’s interest in “sources,” but I wouldn’t expect any team’s beat writer to make up rumors and print them. I could be wrong. Maybe I need to watch Citizen Kane again.

By geauxbraves2000

November 15, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Poor Andruw, he’s only making $13M this year on that lowball contract. Aww, poor man, how does he survive?

AJ owes his career to Bobby Cox. When Bobby pulled him out of that game in the middle of an inning, that is why AJ is who he is today.

Geaux Braves!!

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

tyger,

Actually they put pretty much every player on their roster on waivers, not just Andruw. Almost every player in baseball is placed on waivers in August.

By Lew

November 15, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

Tyger-Are you sure Chipper and Smoltz were never put on waivers? It’s my understanding that at some point almost EVERY player is put on waivers. Also, from reports I’ve read, we didn’t shop him, several teams asked us about him. Besides, AJ and JS worked out whatever problems they had. What shall be shall be.

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I echo Bravo nam’s sentiment. Not that my opinion should matter to you one way or the other, but your posts over the last few days have been infinitely more enjoyable.

Matthew, Missy State has a similar style to Arkansas in that they run a lot and have an opportunistic defense. Y’all should be able to beat them at their own game, though; they turn the ball over a good bit and have less talent overall (theier second-best WR is also out with a thumb injury). They’re coming off a homecomming victory over Alabama, so be careful.

Bob, I, too have a functioning Victrola; about an early 20’s model. There’s an even older one in the attic that plays glass records, but I’m scared to try it. As for the Braves aquiring Troilus and Cressida, I doubt it. Scylla and Charybdis, perhaps. :-)

By Salty55

November 15, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

tyger The issue was divulging he was placed on waivers; typically very confidential, except this time. Apparently every player (including Smoltz and Chipper, most likely) is placed on waivers in their career, and more than once. Oh, and please drop the race card, too…it’s as offensive as the profanity.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Tyger:

Your ignorance as to the circumstances around Andruw’s being placed on waivers is as apparent as the very large chip on your shoulder.

Fact#1. Andruw was placed on waivers, as were a number of other Braves, as a matter of routine. JS has always placed his players on the waiver wire because it only makes sense to do so. You don’t have all of your options available if you fail to do so.

Fact#2. The timing wasn’t tied to Andruw’s contract status, but rather to the trade deadline.

Fact#3. Boston approached Atlanta, not the other way around. The Braves never “attempted to trade him a couple weeks before attaining his 10-5 status.” Braves management is on record with their desire to keep Andruw in Atlanta long-term. Scott Boras, Andruw’s agent, is on record with his desire to bleed every last dollar out of any potential suitors.

Fact#4. You said, “They didn’t do that to Smoltzie or Chipper.” The real fact is that we don’t know exactly who JS places on the waiver wire because it is a confidential process. Boston leaked the Andruw info to the press.

Based on your “Let the Braves replace him with whomever their latest GWH (Great White Hope) is at the time” comment, I will make the easy assumption that you feel this is an issue of color. Though I really don’t want to dignify that comment with a response, I will say that the only color that matters with management is green.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 15, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

Matthew,

Yeah, I know Nolan was a jack.a.s.s. and it made me sick every time he tried to play the race card. On the court he had an exciting style of b-ball that no hog fan could resist. I think he lost his edge when Al Dillard came along and starting jacking up threes from all over the court. For the remaining years of Nolan’s career after that, hog ball became streetball. It sure was a shame that a coach that brought so much excitement to the court, had such a p** attitude off the court. Poor poor pitiful oppressed little man. I wonder what he’s doing now.

By Shaun

November 15, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

Yes. I’ve heard the Tigers are definitely looking to trade a pitcher because they have plenty of quality young ones and they need offense.

I guess my point is why would they trade Bonderman for merely a good firstbaseman when they could probably get a great hitter for him?

But, yes, I’ve heard that it’s a forgone conclusion that the Tigers will deal a pitcher.

By BB FAN

November 15, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

tyger,

Every team puts all of their players (including stars) on waivers at some point. I would bet that Smoltz and Chipper have both been put through waivers. It’s just a procedural move. Sometimes they do it so they can sneak young guys through the process.

I can’t believe you are trying to imply the Braves favor white players. That is ridiculous. I guess them letting go of greats like Glavine, Maddux, Dale Murphy and Steve Avery (just to name a few off the top of my head) never happened? In fact Murphy was traded so Dave Justice could play everyday in right field. They will likely trade Marcus Giles this year as well.

Sorry, but don’t start with that crap. If they are not able to sign Andruw Jones, it’s not because of his skin color. Jones is my favorite player and even I can tell it would be because of financial reasons. No player is worth 20 million a year, especially when your payroll is at $80. I don’t care which Jones it is, Andruw or Chipper. I don’t care if he’s black, white, green or purple.

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

Y’all, that “Tyger” dude probably left right after he posted that comment. He does that on Falcon blogs as well, just drops in and makes an incredibly ignorant, racist post and drops right back out again. Waste of time responding.

Jimmy Smith, what did they use the roaster for? :-)

Off to the gym; it’s raining profusely here. Lata.

By ncscoots

November 15, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Troilus and Cressida…Mexican League, right? And Charybdis is all-bat, no glove, I hear. Great Wall of China has better hands. :-)

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

Tyger has no clue what he’s talking about. Smoltz and Chipper have both been put on waivers in the past, more than once each.

But nice try. Any other inflammatory issues you want to make completely baseless statements about?

Oh, and someone ought to tell Tyger (since he obviously doensn’t follow ‘ball) that Dave Roberts, the player the Braves are trying to get to bat leadoff, is black. African-American, rather than being from the Caribbean island of Curacaco with heritage going back to the Netherlands (that’s Andruw).

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

Shaun, Kevin Johnson, anyone else who passed judgment on LaRoche based on a boneheaded play in May:

In late June, he began both began taking ADD medication and getting to play against lefties. In 79 games from June 24 until the end of the season, LaRoche hit .323 with 22 doubles, 21 homers, 53 RBIs, a .379 OBP and a 1.013 OPS _ and one error.

Anyone who thinks that’s a “Zombie” who should be dumped, or merely an average first baseman, really doesn’t understand the nuances of the game, but rather makes pronouncements based on nothing more than personal feelings about someone. Seriously, look at those numbers.

Oh, and Thorman? He hit .234 with 11 doubles, five homers, 14 RBIs and a .263 OBP in 55 games (128 at-bats) in his first season in the majors, and played serviceable defense. After his initial burst, he hit .209 with one homer and four RBIs in 33 games (67 at-bats) after July 23. And you’re ready to turn the position over to him?

Or to Kelly Johnson and Matt Diaz, neither one of whom has ever played first base in the major leagues. Ever.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

By the way, those who wonder what Andruw might make on the open market next winter, consider that Soriano is probably going to get a deal worth $100-120 million total and $17-20 mill per season. And he’s going to turn 31 in January (Andruw will be 30 in April). And last I checked, Soriano has no Gold Gloves (though he does run better and hit for a higher average than Andruw; but I don’t think they’re paying him all that cash for stolen bases).

By Tom

November 15, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

C’mon, DOB. You get onto folks by saying “this isn’t trading baseball cards” and “this isn’t fantasy baseball” but you put something like Andruw for Taveras, Lidge or Qualls and a prospect in there? Would never happen. Taveras is fast but that’s about all. Qualls or Lidge? For Andruw? Better get more than that.

And I just don’t see Dave Roberts coming here. He’s not a Braves’ type of signee. So what happens when Chipper and Roberts are both injured? They both can’t last a full season.

I said it before and will say it again. IF Gary Matthews, Jr. signs with Anaheim, Chone Figgins to Atlanta makes perfect sense.

Figgins plays LF and can also play 3B. (when Chipper goes down and Aybar isn’t cutting it) Figgins, for the most part, brings a .350 OBP and gap power to generate the top of the lineup. Plus, he’s young (28???), relatively cheap, has a couple years on his contract, gets at least 50 steals per season, and will be expendable if the Angels net Matthews.

This makes the most sense. Schuerholz doesn’t throw money around at guys like Roberts unless it’s a last resort. (a la Mondesi but that was for $1 mil??? Chump change in this biz)

By beachcomber

November 15, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

DOB - Beleated thanks for a very juicy morsel for us hot stovers to chew on. Mr. Escobar’s Arizona numbers are making all of us anxious to see him in spring training. You just have the feeling that he or some other “rook” will pull a Furcal and land on the 25-man roster and perhaps the starting eight. The Kelly Johnson second sack scenario which you term a longshot is nonetheless intresting. Great blog!

By Thomas

November 15, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

You said DOB, if Soriano is Demanding all that money what will you think Andruw would ask for. There are two trades that I have heard for Andruw Jones that I like, one was Jon Lester(before his cancer), Coco Crisp, and Craig Hansen(a top prospect). The other trade I think is better, which is, Willy Taveras(leadoff issue), Chad Qualls or Dan Wheeler(setup guy), and a prospect, is better than just draft picks. If we trade Andruw there will be left overs of money that we can use in free agents(like Tom Glavine…).

By Thomas

November 15, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Figgins is a utility guy, he canplay the outfield, 3B, and 2B, But the angels are not getting Matthews.

By Carroll

November 15, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

DOB: talk about making knee-jerk, emotion-laden statements….I NEVER said that LaRoche isn’t “good” or that he should be “dumped”…but clearly, if you have the opportunity to parlee him for a Bonderman or Zumaya, you make that deal without thinking about it! That is hardly “dumping” him! It’s merely striking while the iron is hot, and getting the most for him after a solid year, rather than waiting, as we did with Giles, until he has another off year and is right up against arbitration/free agency. Anyone who doesn’t understand that rationale knows nothing about the game, sir.

And he IS an emotionless zombie who has made a number of boneheaded erros in his short time with the Braves…quote all the stats you want, it doesn’t remove that obvious fact.

And as far as my comment about Padilla and Hampton, why can’t you see the connection? If teams are so pitching-desperate as to pay that loser (Padilla) 10 mill/yr, it stands to reason that somebody may want to take a flyer on a guy who was our best pitcher just two seasons ago, and should come back even stronger from TJ surgery (as most do…see eg: Carpenter, Christopher). Not saying it will happen or even that it should happen, but just quit acting like people are stupid for throwing ideas out there…that’s what this time of year is all about.

By Carroll

November 15, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

And as far as Roach’s “lauded” defense, just take a look at the article you quoted….I believe the word to describe his defense was “adequate”…that’s exactly what I would call it. And with Juohnson haing been a middle infielder, I don’t think he’d miss a beat at 1B…plus, Thorman is a natural 1B, and we also have Jurries. Bottom line, 1B defense is not and should not be a huge concern….after all, we won the WS with the worst defensive firstbaseman of all times in 1995 (McGriff). And when we had the “best” defensive first baseman (Galaraga), I distincly remember him making numerous crucial errors in the playofs in 98 against the Pads.

By Thomas

November 15, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

Mark Texeira is going to the Evil empire(the Yankees) they need a good defensive 1st baseman, and he has 1 or two gold gloves. Gary Matthews goes to the cubs, Carlos Lee to the Astros, Soriano to Anaheim, and JD Drew to the Redsox.

By Lew

November 15, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

Scoots-You’re right . Charybdis had a stone glove, but with Scylla covering in center it kind of made up for it.

By ernesto

November 15, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

If DeRo’s got a deal for 13 mil for 3 years, you’ve got to ask yourself is Marcus really that expensive at 5 mil/per?

By journalist jimmy smith

November 15, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

a roaster is much like a toaster but sits on a coaster in the middle of the floor. jimmy smith thinks the roaster was for rodney dangerfield but not sure. that mr. peanut can be a cut up. now, calling an atlanta braves player a “zombie” on this blog … this journalist has been called terrible names by stinky and sda but never a zombie. why would anyone call adam laroche a zombie? not dead, right? hit 32 homeruns, right? and what would be indicative of a zombie? perhaps the use of a Zett baseball glove?! “Z” would be an indicator, right? and does young adam laroche use a zett? no! adam laroche does not use a zett. who on this team uses a zett? must look elsewhere for a zombie. now, baseball meetings … we have had some showers today - not a good day for much except baseball trades. still, 83 degrees and considerable activity here at the hotel. this journalist will have more to report later in the day.

By Matthew

November 15, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly:

I read recently where Nolan is doing a Legends of Coaching clinic that travels around the US. I think Norm Stewart (Mizzou) and he are heading it up. I think the website is www.nolanrichardsonlegends.com.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 15, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

charybdis had a monster year. would be a good trade. scylla has bad toes - not sure how many. and where is carolina lady?

By ncscoots

November 15, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

Tom, you surely are joking if you think a .350 OBP is a reason to get Figgins. Aren’t you? His numbers for BA/OBP/SLG are only the same as, or slightly worse than, the numbers Giles put up in an off year (I assume you think he should be hitting leadoff). How could Chone Figgins POSSIBLY be an upgrade?

By Haywood Jablome

November 15, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

I’m a Scot Thorman guy, have been since day one. The guy has the power,and he hustles. He just needs some time, just like LaRoche did. I think Thorman and Salty packaged together would get the Tigers’ attention….maybe not Bonderman or Verlander, but what about Nate Robertson?

By rammerjammer

November 15, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

Hey, don’t lump me with those who want LaRoche dumped. He’s very good and liable to get better. Not against him. For him. OK?

Just want to be open-minded to the notion that to get quality you gotta give quality. We need quality pitching. We have a quality offense. Deal from a strength to address a need.

By RC

November 15, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

This blog is running slower than Sid Bream from 2nd to home….

By RC

November 15, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Scoots, the biggest difference between Giles and Figgins is the 50+ SB that Figgins is good for. That being said, Giles has got a little more power, is younger, and we already have him. I wouldn’t trade Giles for Figgins straight up, but if Giles is going to be traded Figgins is about as good of a replacement as we could get without overspending.

By MS

November 15, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m with you. Anyone who could possibly think that getting rid of Laroche would be a good thing is absolutely certifiable.

He is to first base, what Andruw is to Center. He had one fewer error (5) last year than the Gold Glove winning Pujols. (not to take anything away from AP, but Laroche deserved it in my opinion). How many runs did he save last year? His range and soft hands are phenomenal.

Then throw on the fact that he was our most dependable bat BY FAR the second half of last year and has one of the sweetest swings in the game and he looks more like a player you bulid around rather than someone to discard for an unproven player.

Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely affordable and locked up for years to come???

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

Ernesto, no, it’s not that Giles is too expensive at $5 mill, though that price actually is probably going to about $6 mill next year instead, because of money being given to DeRosa and others (Giles’ salary for arbitration purposes would be set by comparing him to all players at the position and their salaries, not just arbitratio-eligible guys; it’s once of the nuances of being a fifth-year arbitration guy, as opposed to three-year and four-year guys whose salaries are compared to those of similar service).

But anyway, problem is that Giles’ salary, especially with a good season, could go to $7-8 mill per year after he hits free-agent market. maybe more. And as we’ve said, he’s one of the few tradeable pieces the Braves have that other teams really want.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Carroll, you wrote: And as far as Roach’s “lauded” defense, just take a look at the article you quoted….I believe the word to describe his defense was “adequate”…

Oh, so you take the word of a beat writer for an American League team who’s not seen LaRoche play more than a few games in his lifetime (if that) over people who’ve actually seen him play and players and coaches from other teams who voted him among the top defensive 1B in the NL?

By ncscoots

November 15, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

RC, that might be true, if the Braves were being forced to fill a spot that was a glaring weakness (and I don’t think that leadoff is a glaring weakness, but’s that’s another discussion, probably!). However, there are plenty of options already on the 40-man that could probably provide Figgins’ offensive numbers. My point is that the names bandied about for providing the “spark at the top of the order”, e.g., Figgins/Freel/Pierre, simply wouldn’t improve the Braves offense in a significant way, and therefore don’t merit high dollars or trading prospects. You’d simply get the same or worse production at a higher cost in either dollars or players, and that defies logic.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this

And b the way, Thorman _ god love him, he’s a great kid and plays his tail off _ is not what anyone would call a “natural” at any defensive position. Adequate defensively, but he’ll make it because of his bat and no other reason. And, as I said, he plays hard as hell.

By Carroll

November 15, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this

MS: very impressive statistics indeed! Remind me, where did that get us again? Oh yeah, our first non-playoff-appearance in 15 years! And why? BECAUSE WE HAD NO FREAKING PITCHING!!! Thus, if Laroche, Chipper, AJ or anyone else will get us some quality, young arms in return, you make that damned trade or you are doomed to a repeat of this past pathetic season!

Besides, as I mentioned before, Laroche, while good, does not give us that much more than we could expect from Thorman/Jurries/Johnson at 1B.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

It’s merely striking while the iron is hot, and getting More Carroll” get the most for him after a solid year, rather than waiting, as we did with Giles, until he has another off year and is right up against arbitration/free agency. Anyone who doesn’t understand that rationale knows nothing about the game, sir.

(Then I guess I know nothing, Carroll. By the way, by this rationale do the Braves trade Francoeur and McCann next season if they have good years, before they get “up against” arbitration/free agency? Do they keep any players, or just trade them after they have good seasons? Nice approach. That’ll keep the fans happy.)

MORE Carroll: And he IS an emotionless zombie who has made a number of boneheaded erros in his short time with the Braves…quote all the stats you want, it doesn’t remove that obvious fact.

(Well, there’s no arguing because you obviously hate the guy. Get over it. Braves officials and teammates love him, and fortunately your opinion of LaRoche want affect sound business decision of keeping a player universally popular with teammates and the most productive bat in the lineup after the All-Star break, who’s affordable for at least two more seasons and might be a long-term fixture. Last year was his FIRST FULL, HEALTHY SEASON and he made major strides, but you dismiss it because he doesn’t make faces and pump his fist. Oh, well. Can’t please everyone. Fortunately for him, he pleases team officials, who understood the boneheaded defensive play was hardly indicative of his performance. He made that mistake, and foolishly tried to bunt in the game at Florida, and one other play at Milwaukee on a would-be double play. That’s three mistakes in 162 games. Tell me what the others were, and how those three mistakes offset his production and otherwise strong defense. And please, enough with the emotionless zombie. You’ve never met him, and you don’t listen to all the Braves when they say how much LaRoche wants to win, how he just doesn’t show it on his face. Neither does Chipper. I’m sure you hate him, too.)

By Haywood Jablome

November 15, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

Interesting that Kevin Towers tipped his hand by saying that some team is gonna have to seriously “overspend” to get Scott Linebrink. Tell him to shove it. Linebrink throws what? 70 innings a year? He’s not Roger Clemens. I hope JS calls Oakland and asks what Beane’ll give us for Marcus. I’d take Duchsherer or Kiko Calero for openers.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Tom, do you understand that they’re actually talking to Roberts’ agent, that I’m not making this up? I mean, you can talk all you want about how they wouldn’t do it and how Chone Figgins makes more sense, but I’m just telling you what’s actually happening, as opposed to what you might think makes more sense.

Of course Figgins would be a PERFECT fit for the Braves, could back up Chipper at third, split time in left, etc. But maybe he’s not available, or not available for a price the Braves would pay. I mean, they can’t just target players and then go get them. Other teams has to be amenable. Roberts is a free agent, and wouldn’t have to play every day because the Braves would have Diaz or Langerhans back in left to split time. But the price is getting too high, as I wrote in a story for tomorrow’s paper, should be posted soon.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Oh, and someone asked if Braves had posted on the Japanese lefty, Igewa. That procedure won’t take place until Monday, I believe. Don’t know if Braves will, but I’d imagine if they do it won’t be a high bid. I’m certain of that, actually.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

THIS IS THE TOPPER FROM CARROLL:

“Besides, as I mentioned before, Laroche, while good, does not give us that much more than we could expect from Thorman/Jurries/Johnson at 1B”

Until further notice _ until you post something that doesn’t leave me pounding my fists against my head and wondering what games you watch _ I’ll not be answering any more questions from you. You and I have such disparate opinions, there’s no use.

Anyone who thinks James Jurries, who hit .205 with eight homers and 107 strikeouts in 307 at-bats last saeson in Triple-A, and was dumped from the 40-man roster, is a suitable alternative to Adam LaRoche _ well, you’re obviously not taking this discussion seriously enough to even continue it.

By GM Wannabe

November 15, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

If JS can get Bonderman for LaRoache, he has to pull the trigger on this deal. But, as someone else said, if JS can get Nate Robertson for Salty and Thorman, that deal would be sooo much better. I just read on Fox that Kevin Towers said Linebrink for Giles will not happen. DOB who are the other teams interested in Giles? Also any interest in anybody else?

By Lew

November 15, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Carroll-To expand on DOB’s 5:15 post. I will give you a football example that I witnessed first hand living in St.Pete-The Buccaneers. Hugh Culverhouse ran the Bucs just like you suggest the Braves do with LaRoche-let the players start to get good and then dump them. The result of this was fourteen consecutive losing seasons and a Guiness World Record for the lowest winning percentage among ALL sports teams. It was a stupid (but lucrative) way to run the Bucs and it’s a stupid way to run the Braves. Thank God the Braves brass isn’t stupid (despite what Robert says).

By ernesto

November 15, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

DOB- Yeah, I understand why we’re trading him, and the dynamics etc, it’s just that when you look at good 2nd base “spark plug’ kind of guys he’s pretty reasonable…or at least will be when this “147 mil before the luxury tax kicks in” market sets in. My point is if you’re a club who wants some pretty proven production out of 2B, and a gritty kind of player Marcus is going to look pretty good. Ironically, it’s his “affordability” tha probably makes him more tradeable.

By David

November 15, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

DOB,Carroll has that effect,it’s called bullheaded stupidity. It won’t be long before he calls for Gabe White to be a stalwart of the pen, he does it a couple of times a season. Shows how in touch Carroll is. Gabe White WTF???

By ernesto

November 15, 2006 06:12 PM | Link to this

Now that my mind has taken such a budgetary turn, I wonder if there’s a chance we’ll pursue a guy like Ted Lilly or Randy Wolf? I mean obviously we’re not going to make a play for Zito, but those guys should be on the outer edges of affordability…unless the market just goes nuts.

By MS

November 15, 2006 06:20 PM | Link to this

Wolf, maybe. I have a feeling someone is going to grossly overpay for Lilly’s “potential”

By Lew

November 15, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this

Ernesto-The Yankees are pushing for Wolf-at least that’s what I heard on XM Home Plate. As far as Giles, Yes it is partially his affordability, but just as much it’s because we have middle infielders in the pipeline at radically cheaper prices to replace him.

By eware

November 15, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this

DOB, stop replying to the morons that hate Laroache. Please!! That dude is awesome and seems to bleed blue and red. These geeks that live in their mom’s basement need to quit ripping him and go wash their hands for dinner.

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2006 06:23 PM | Link to this

WOW!!! D.O.B. James Jurries, what a difference a year makes, Everyone and Dey mama was on his bandwagon last year…Man did he fall off…

Carroll, I was a big LaRoche Fan at the beginning of last season at all, but you got to give the dude some love, him and B-Macc were our most cocsistant bats in the second half last year…Chipper was consistant but he is about as injury prone as Chris Chandelier at the same age when he was the Falcons starting QB…

By ncscoots

November 15, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

ernesto, guys such as Lilly just bring more back-of-the-rotation depth. Braves don’t need another fifth starter, IMO, they need a mid-rotation guy that gives them some confidence when projecting performance. Don’t know if that can even happen, but I think they have to try. I’d be shocked if any of the available FA pitchers were what JS had in mind with his “elite” comment. Suits off the rack are affordable, too, but give me Armani anytime, the extra cost is always worth it.

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

Carroll, I correct that…I wasn’t a big fan of LaRoche til the second half of this year…There’s no way we should even consider getting rid of him because that dude clowned in the second half…

By journalist jimmy smith

November 15, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

rainy night in georgia, right? reminds this journalist of jimmy smith’s time as a back-up pip. could really get down on that one - du-waa, du-waa, du-waaa. never could understand why gladys knight didn’t add a pip and keep jimmy smith. now, baseball … this blog is much as it was when jimmy smith’s friend letwan entered it months ago … dob and carroll getting it on. and where is rr? oh, well … someone told this journalist the dodgers may leave dodgertown - vero beach. just goes to show that you lose jd drew and it screws up your thinking …

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 06:56 PM | Link to this

Admit it, Y’all; you just like LaRoche for the dimple in his chin. In all honesty, though; the dude gets it done and is still affordable. I don’t even think he’s hit his peak yet. It must be Law & Order CI rerun time.

By ncscoots

November 15, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this

Shoot, I think you guys can lay off Carroll now, that LaRoche rip was just pee-wee ball compared to some of the rips laid on Adam in this blog. Man, back in April/May/June, that guy was getting multi-ripped on a daily basis, and I don’t mean love-taps, I mean great big sucking-chest-wound rips, trade-him-for-a-bag-of-balls rips, worst-1B-in-the-game rips. Only a few voices in the wilderness were giving the guy any props at all, and the howling mob would even turn on THEM! I mean, the fury was RIGHTEOUS, people, LOL! Just goes to show what a little .300/.380/.500 in the second half can do to soothe the savage breast (or blog, as the case may be).

BTW, Bob, Voice Of Reason…good to see your names again, my friends. I feel the earth returning to its correct angle on the axis!

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

Watch our JJS, yours and my secret admirer should be crashing the party disguised as you at any moment. We’ll know because he’ll say something clever about us or about the DBTs.

No one here will be surprised to know that it was confirmed to me today _ Smelly and the fake JJS, the one obsessed with my life, are one and the same. Big shocker, I know.

Like there’s anybody else on the blog that twisted….

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this

I’m going to the gym now, smelly, in case you reply and I don’t bother acknowledging. Thought you’d like that nugget of info _ the gym _ so you can add it to your arsenal. I know, something strange for an old guy like me to do. What can I say, I like the gym and DBTs. I’m a loser _ or worse.

By Bob, journalist

November 15, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, I’m not sure it’s really me … I should have made it clear in my first response that I was referring to “Mr. Frank Gordy”. I think “The Peanut Store” I mentioned was in Chattanooga and they too were a “Planters” with a Mr. Peanut … and Whitehall Street is also my recollection, now that you mention it.

Grinch, I must agree with Scoots … Charybdis would have to play in the American League … though what a team that would be!

Seriously, I understood that Troilus and Cressida “were” going to play in Atlanta and figured you had the “skinny” .

Matthew, don’t apologize for your ignorance … the GM’s themselves don’t really know why they have meetings … it’s sorta traditional … they only assume that they’re supposed to have the meetings because otherwise their predecessors would not have had so many of them.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 15, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

uh, oh . . , smelly will surely write a letter to somebody now. probably gonna tell his momma, too.

By The Blogger Fromerly Know as Billy

November 15, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

DOB mad at carrol and some guy named smelly………LOL

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 07:42 PM | Link to this

Yes, it is quite a niche I’ve carved out in this life, isn’t it? I think I need to look in the mirror and ask myself what went wrong.

By Troy

November 15, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this

I got here after the fun stops, DOB go get yourself ripped, the Laroche thing is ridiculous won’t happen, he’s a good young player who’s still cheap.

On the other hand picking up a guy like Bonderman would be great, but we just don’t have the pieces necessary to get a front of the rotation type guy yet. You can bet that getting a frontline guy is right there on the top of JS’s list though, with Smoltz only signed through 07’ and being what 39 years old he’ll get a #1 guy somehow probably not this year but maybe the next, who knows who it’ll be but he knows what we need and he’ll address that with time

By ncscoots

November 15, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

DOB, it’s a strong man who is able to face his shortcomings honestly. I admire your, brutha! LOL

Hey, Bob, I think in the modern adaptation, Troilus gets to be a GM and Cressida gets repped by Scott Boras. Mets get to play Diomedes :-)

By Metropolitan Man

November 15, 2006 08:06 PM | Link to this

NEW YORK (AP) — The Padres and Mets swapped four role players Wednesday, with San Diego sending relief pitcher Jon Adkins and reserve outfielder Ben Johnson to New York for relievers Heath Bell and Royce Ring in a deal between NL division winners.

Adkins was 2-1 with a 3.98 ERA in 55 games last season, mostly pitching in middle relief and setup spots. Johnson, the Padres’ minor league player of the year in 2005, hit .250 with four homers and 12 RBIs in 120 at-bats.
“Ben Johnson is a versatile outfielder who can play all three spots, has speed and shown some power. He is just 25 years old and we feel he has yet to reach his potential,” Mets general manager Omar Minaya said. “Jon Adkins has had success on the major league level and can pitch multiple innings. He’s another quality arm to add to our bullpen.” That bullpen was a big reason New York won the NL East last season and reached Game 7 of the NL championship series before losing to the St. Louis Cardinals. The Mets gave up two young relievers in the trade, but neither pitched many crucial innings. The Padres also have a strong bullpen, which has helped them win consecutive NL West titles. The deal adds to their depth — and they think Bell could develop into a useful setup man. “Bell is probably the one guy that we certainly feel that has tremendous upside,” general manager Kevin Towers said. “The guy has always had really good strikeout-to-walk ratios in the minor leagues.” The 29-year-old Bell shuttled back and forth from the minors this year, compiling a 5.11 ERA without a decision in 22 appearances for New York. At Triple-A Norfolk, the right-hander was 3-3 with a 1.29 ERA and 12 saves in 30 games, striking out 56 batters and walking eight in 35 innings. Ring, a 25-year-old left-hander who attended San Diego State, went 0-0 with a 2.13 ERA in 11 appearances with the Mets. He also was 2-2 with 11 saves and a 2.97 ERA in 36 games at Norfolk. “They dropped his arm angle down a lot,” Towers said. “He’s done a tremendous job over his minor league career and a little time in the big leagues as a situational left-hander. Looking where this free-agent market looks like it might be heading for relievers and the dollars involved, this deal I think makes a lot of sense for both clubs.” The 29-year-old Adkins was a member of the World Series champion Chicago White Sox in 2005, appearing in five games. He is 4-5 with a 4.63 ERA in 114 major league games. The Mets also declined their $1.5 million option on Japanese pitcher Yusaku Iriki, who was suspended after testing positive for a banned performance-enhancing substance during spring training, when he was on the major league roster. The Mets sent him to the minors, and he didn’t pitch for New York this season. AP Baseball Writer Ronald Blum in Naples, Fla., contributed to this report.

Not much but Minaya is getting the liitle things done before the checkbook opens for a big free agent. Is JS still working for the braves and what is “Wren have busy week ahead”? Just keeping you braves fans posted on those pesky METS.

By Metropolitan Man

November 15, 2006 08:09 PM | Link to this

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — The Tampa Bay Devil Rays won the negotiating rights to Japanese star third baseman Akinori Iwamura on Wednesday, submitting a winning bid of about $4.5 million for the power hitter.

On Tuesday, the Boston Red Sox paid $51.1 million for the rights to talk to Japanese star pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka.

ADVERTISEMENT

The Devil Rays have 30 days to finalize a contract with Iwamura. If he is not signed by Dec. 15, Tampa Bay gets its money back and Iwamura returns to play in Japan.

The 27-year-old Iwamura was a five-time All-Star in eight seasons with the Yakult Swallows. A left-handed hitter, he batted .311 with 32 homers and 77 RBIs in 145 games last season.

Iwamura was Japan’s starting third baseball in the World Baseball Classic last spring. He was a six-time Gold Glove winner.

Iwamura hit 188 homers with 570 RBIs in eight seasons with Yakult. He hit at least 30 home runs in each of the past three years and set a Swallows record for most homers by a Japanese native with 44 in 2004.

If you guys didnt have Larryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, would JS have pulled the trigger for this guy? Seems like for a power hitter, he may come cheap.

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

Well, it’s all Greek to me. :-) Problem with reruns is that I’ve already seen most of them. Why can’t there be a special game on just for me? I must not be rich enough.

By Lew

November 15, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this

DOB-You might have indeed niched higher, but we’ll let you keep hanging around-just like Chris Chandelier.

By Lew

November 15, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

And Diogenes continually searches for an honest agent with a cheap pitcher. The way things are shaping up, maybe we better offer deals to Thomson and Reitsma before they command $10 mil per season. Thomson for 8th inning set up, anyone?

By Bob, journalist

November 15, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

Hi Scoots!

Well, I wouldn’t envy the Mets … in between a rock and a hard place as they say … no, that would be if they were playing against Grinch’s proposed pair, not Diomedes.

Interesting to note that the post before yours was from Troy … I knew that the Braves reached a wide audience but … well, maybe the gods are trying to tell us something. Like Grinch just said, it’s all Greek!

I just saw a promotional piece describing the movie déjà vu as being the most “original” thing going … makes one appreciate Yogi!

By Thomas

November 15, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

DOB, who are the possible suitors for Andruw Jones? Is Anaheim an option, because if it is my suggested trade would be: Chone Figgins, Francisco Rodriges, and a prospect for Andruw Jones. We sign Aaron Rowand to play center, and Tom Glavine. We trade Giles for a top prospect and money, and Horacio Ramirez for Roberto Novoa, and Will Ohman.

Lineup:

• 2B Chone Figgins
• SS Edgar Renteria
• 3B Chipper Jones
• C Brian Mccann
• RF Jeff Franceour
• 1B Adam Laroche
• CF Aaron Rowand
• LF Ryan Langerthans or Matt Diaz(platoon)
• P (Pitcher)

Bench:

• C Branyan Peña
• 1B/LF Darryl Ward
• IF Willy Aibar
• IF Pete Orr
• OF Ryan Lagerthans or Matt Diaz

Pitchers:

• SP John Smoltz
• SP Tom Glavine
• SP Tim Hudson
• SP Mike Hampton
• SP Chuck James
• RHP Oscar Villareal
• LHP Will Ohman
• RHP Roberto Novoa
• LHP McCay Mcbride
• RHP Chad Parronto
• RHP Francisco Rodriges
• RHP Bob Wickman

Triple A Top Backups:

• SP Kyle Davies
• SP Lance Cormier
• RHP Blaine Boyer
• 1B/LF Scott Thorman
• LF Kelly Johnson
• IF Martin Prado

Trust it looks really good…..

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

The game itself is pretty boring, but anyone wanting to watch an old-school grind it out in the mud kind of football game might want to check out Miami(oh) vs. Bowling Green. They’re having to replace the ball about every third play. Nasty; just like high school.

Bob, what did Yogi Bear have to say about Deja Vu? Did it have something to do with always getting caught stealing picnic baskets? And is it just me, or does Boo-boo always look and sound stoned out of his gourd? Yet Yogi’s always the one with the munchies. Go figure.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

Thomas, there are no suitors of note, to my understanding, for one reason: Braves aren’t shopping Andruw.

If they were, Anaheim and Boston would be natural assumptions and good fits, seemingly. But they’re not shopping him, so….

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

By the way, anybody else seen Borat? I thought it was the funniest movie I’ve seen in quite a while. Lived up to the hype. I was laughing out loud throughout.

By Troy

November 15, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

Thomas, Andruw is going nowhere, however I checked out Novoa and Ohman those guys could be promising, it looks like the Cubs have some guys in their pen that may be expendale, maybe JS will make some deal with them for a RP

By Bob, journalist

November 15, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Lew, poor Diogenes … continually searching … ain’t no such thing as an honest agent … I had hoped that congress, before losing control to impassioned members of Doc’s Flock … would have outlawed folks with agent negoiated contracts belonging to unions … ‘bout time for a hot tub, a logic puzzle or three, some pasta and short nap!

When Jimmy mentioned Whitehall Street, I clicked an online Atlanta map to try to jog my memory regarding the street location of the old Planter’s store.

My how times have changed!! I didn’t recognize one street name in 10 … at first I thought I was in the wrong place. How sad it is when folks become so full of themselves that they lightly dismiss history and tradition in favor of private agendas and self gradification … I think I liked Marthasville better; at least I could find Five Points, Muse’s and the Planter’s store.

Later …

By Troy

November 15, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

DOB- All indications that Blaine Boyer is healthy and will be ready for next year? If so what do you think we could expect out of him?

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

DOB, I was gonna go see it last weekend but got sidetracked; I may go Sunday. Pretty much everyone I’ve talked to gives a similar response to your review. BTW, what was the name of that Australian movie you were talikng about recently? I’ve been wanting to rent it on netflix but I can’t remember the name. Back so quick? Your gym must be right around the corner….girly man. :-)

By Troy

November 15, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

DOB- Also what’s the word on Phil Stockman, any help next year?

By Troy

November 15, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I was wondering the same about DOB he must have just done 20 mins on the treadmill, no weights they would be to rough on his writing hands. :)

By Oral Roberts Fan

November 15, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

DOB is back so soon b/c he saw that that KU just took an embarassing lose to the chops and now has no internal will or motivation to down size his typical american frame. Now, he is going to sit in front of his computer and think of something witty to post on the blog defending his beloved JayHawks as to why they lost to such an immensly INFERIOR program. I think you described the team as loaded DOB. All the talent in the world doesn’t mean squat….when you’ve got SELF calling the shots. Bringing back Giles two…TWO different times after he had been in legal altercations. My oh my, most coaches would have said “see ya kid” long before. Did it really take him hitting a girl and dragging her a good distance to part with his just “avg” PF? Ohh well, thats just me ranting.

By Thomas

November 15, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this

I thought Phil Stockman had very good stuff, before being injured in his second game, lets see how he does in Spring. I dont want Andruw to leave but he is asking for it, maybe not directly, but by saying he wont accept hometown discount, he is saying he wants 20 million or more. If were going to lose Andruw the best choice is trade him. DOB like you said in the Andruw to Houston deal, if he likes the team, and can put up big numbers in the park he might accept.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 15, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

“workout” to a journalist is not the same. a journalist considers it a workout to go through a good cheese sampler. this journalist discovered cheez-it cheese in a can today at publix. this will make a great christmas gift for the journalist(s) on your list. much better than a fruit cake. easy to mail. not sure if you can take it on an airplane.

By kinley

November 15, 2006 11:05 PM | Link to this

isn’t anything better than a fruitcake?

By journalist jimmy smith

November 15, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

phil stockman fits the profile at six-foot eight, two hundred fifty pounds. of course, he will be a baby in the braves bullpen. wicky must be around 280 which will be hard on the toes. if the toes go, so goes the season. he must toe the line at the buffet table and consider his physique from head to toe. for when he toes the rubber, he must have healthy toes. he will be going toe to toe with some of the best hitters in the league. perhaps he will be like ptoemaine poisoning to opposing batters. then again, he could be ridden out of town on a toe truck.

healthy toes and happy feet with red goose shoes.

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 11:16 PM | Link to this

Dang if I didn’t see this next one, too. Yeah, Troy; maybe he thinks “dumbbells” are contagious. If he was really dedicated he’d have his laptop balanced on the treadmill so he could keep us updated. Or at least have Curwright around so he could dictate while rowing. I, too wondered about Stockman. Seems like he had good stuff before being injured; is he expected to play a part?

Cheez-it in a can? Is it better than Cheez-whiz, or just a pale imitation? I do like cheez-its. Maybe I should get back into traditional journalism…

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this

The Aussie horror flick was Wolf Creek, very solid.

The gym is indeed just around the corner, but I didn’t leave when I said was leaving. Didn’t get back until 9.

The Jayhawks’ loss to ORU tonight, at Lawrence no less, is completely shocking and I have no explanation because I haven’t seen highlights yet. I’m stunned.

Not going to look good when those Sports Illustrateds arrive tomorrow with KU ranked No. 1. ORU fan, guess I wasn’t the only one who thinks they’re loaded, huh? They are loaded, which makes tonight’s loss all the more ridiculous.

For now, KU gets an immediate wakeup call. Kinda takes a bit of the luster out of the KU-UF matchup I’m going to Vegas to see Thanksgiving weekend.

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

kinley: agreed. Fruitcake is the root of all evil. I have an aunt who likes fruitcake, and she’s the only person I’ve ever met who did (and I’ve met a lot of people). Those hard little green and red things are repugnant. Blah!

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

Stockman will get a shot this spring, assuming he’s not traded (no reason to think he would be). His hamstring problem just wouldn’t calm down, get recurring and ruined his opportunity.

Oh, and it was four miles on the treadmill, not 20 minutes. About 32 minutes.

Just saw the highlights. 2-for-10 from 3-point line. If you’re going to play without injured 7-foot Sasha Kaun and without the aforementioned dismissed idiot C.J. Giles, gotta hit from outside and get a lot more from SI cover boy Julian Wright (one of five regional covers, not the one we’ll get here).

Anyway, from highlights it at least looked like ORU had a lot of tall, athletic players and a couple of good shooters. We’ll see. Not too worried. This ain’t football. One loss means nothing, although losing a non-conference game at Allen Field House is just about inexcusable. But you guys don’t care about KU hoops, so I don’t know why I’m going on. Probably just because the ORU “fan” had to get some digs in. If I didn’t know better, I’d swear he was … oh, nevermind. Couldn’t be him.

By David O'Brien

November 15, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this

Boyer should be ready to fill the role he was supposed to fill last year, but then again, Braves aren’t counting on anything because of what happened last spring with his arm. He should be fully recovered from surgery.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 15, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this

claxton, fruitcake capital of the world, is just below statesboro. grinch probably has eaten fruitcakes grinch does not remember. those hard, green and red things give the fruitcake character. left in the box, a fruitcake can make a most useful door stop. out of the box it is a conversation piece. fruitcake, thinly sliced, makes a fine adhesive for loose wallpaper. it is rumored that kenny rogers had bits of fruitcake on his hand in the world series. perhaps carolina lady can offer a fruitcake recipe that is more appealing.

By The Grinch

November 15, 2006 11:59 PM | Link to this

Don’t feel bad, dude; at least they’re a solid program regardless. At least, that’s my understanding; as with all college sports the SEC is the only conference I pay attention to unless I’m attending the school in question. Actually, I was thinking of that Australian western that was based on Blood Meridian by McCarthy. Have you checked out any of his other novels yet? Just finished The Road. Great stuff, as long as you don’t want to be uplifted. Not a flowery meads, swains and virgins kind of guy. But as Newsweek says: “With each book, Cormac McCarthy expands the territory of American fiction.”

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 12:42 AM | Link to this

Grinch, that one was The Proposition, but I don’t think it was based on Blood Meridien. It’s the excellent, bloody spaghetti-western that was the first screenplay written by the Nick Cave, goth-god singer-songwriter extraordinaire _ and an Aussie.

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this

Oh, and at your recommendation I bought Blood Meridien last weekend. Haven’t started reading it yet. But it goes to the top of the stack of books I’ve bought and haven’t read yet (I’m bad like that).

By The Grinch

November 16, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this

Claxton. I had no idea it was associated with fruitcakes; I always knew it for the chicken. Monstrous chicken plant. Also, my photography teacher lived in Claxton. She loved my work. I loved her work. It may have gone slightly beyond that for us, at least in spirit. :-)

By The Grinch

November 16, 2006 01:12 AM | Link to this

Yes, I learned some interesting developing techniques from her. She preferred the room dark, for some reason. Here’s to you, Mrs. Robinson… I’m definitely going to hell. No question. DOB, you won’t be dissapointed, I assure you. It’s quite the bloody Western itself, but with language so poetic it could not be mistaken for low-brow. The man is a genius. A bit of an a-hole, from my understanding, but then aren’t we all?

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 01:20 AM | Link to this

I don’t know about all, but most of us are.

Just loaded the Gram Parsons Complete Reprise Sessions into the Ipod (GP, Grievous Angels and outttakes from both). Such great stuff.

Later

By Bob, journalist

November 16, 2006 01:37 AM | Link to this

Here’s hoping Boyer’s injury problems are behind him … scares me

Nothing’s wrong with fruitcakes … fruitcakes is good … methinks white fruitcakes are best … why, some folks consider me to be one … so they must be good!

No, that’s not a racist remark …

Night all!

By The Grinch

November 16, 2006 01:57 AM | Link to this

The Great White Fruitcake, starring Journalist Bob. It’s a shame we live in the day and age where such remarks must be qualified…(sigh). It’s beddy-bye time for The Grinch, as well. Chiropractor in the morning. G’night, Bob. G’night, DOB, G’night, Gram Parsons. G’night, Mrs. Robinson. :-)

By Bravo Nam

November 16, 2006 05:51 AM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for responding to my question on Linebrink.

Grinch

I’ve seen both Wolf Creek and The Proposition. Movies solid, acting excellent. Both worthwhile, but from memory I found Wolf Creek a little more entertaining.

There’s an American movie reviewer: James Berardinelli (www.reelviews.net), whose reviews I enjoy reading, and are normally spot on. If you ever get a chance, look him up.

Let’s hope the Hawks can reverse a bit of bad luck in their past two games, and the Falcs just reverse a lot of bad luck full stop!

OK everyone, off to the wilds of Vietnam for a couple of days- catch you in a couple.

By Don

November 16, 2006 07:57 AM | Link to this

DOB I understand LaRoche is going nowhere, however, would the Braves ever seriously consider a Chipper move to 1st base?

By Troy

November 16, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this

DOB- Are you gonna be on the baseball beat with Charlie Steiner on XM radio anytime soon?

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 08:25 AM | Link to this

O’Brien,

I hope you aren’t implying I called LaRoche a zombie. If you are, please read my posts a little more carefully.

I’m actually the first person to defend him after Carroll called him a zombie.

I think the confusion comes in when I said I wouldn’t trade Bonderman for LaRoche. But I would only trade Bonderman for one of the top 30 or so hitters in the game.

I said Teixeira because I heard his name in a Bonderman rumor and I would ask for him over LaRoche because he may be the best 1B in the game or will be soon. But nothing wrong with LaRoche.

By Carroll

November 16, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

DOB: throw out all the stats and semantics you want, but the bottom line is this—nothing else matters without solid pitching (starting and relief). If LaRoche was the greatest firstbaseman ever, it wouldn’t do us a damned bit of good without pitching (see last season). Thus, neither he or anyone else on the team should be untouchable if it would get us enough solid pitching in return. I would hesitate to trade Francouer, and it would take an awful lot to justify trading McCann (not that either of those should/will happen), but nothing should be off the table. Anyone who knows baseball knows that you start with dominant pitching, and rock solid defense, then you plug in pieces as needs arise…you can win with that formula (and if you’re as budget-constrained as the Braves are, it’s really your only option for success).

By Carroll

November 16, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

And DOB, I was slightly dissapointed with Borat…thought it didn’t quite live up to the hype. Plus it was sad to me in a way, as it illustrated the backward, ignorant, intolerant mentality that pervades most of our society.

But the wrestling scene was a classic…like a bad car wreck, you didn’t want to look but you just had to!

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

Carroll,

It’s about run differential. Scoring a lot more runs than you allow—whether you do that through pitching, hitting or defense—is what is going to increase your chances to win. There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

Yes, pitching and defense does increase your chances in the post-season, but a)you have to get there first and b)there are no sure things in the post-season (see the 2006 Tigers who had all the right ingredients for post-season success but failed to close the deal).

I agree that no one should be off limits, but LaRoche is fine. Is he one of the best 1B in the game? No. But he is very solid and cheap; he provides as much bang for the buck as anyone in baseball right now.

And I don’t think the Tigers would give up Bonderman, one of the best young pitchers in baseball, for LaRoche even for the price difference. Decent firstbasemen are relatively easy to find and good young pitchers are difficult to find. If you have a pitcher like Bonderman you ask for one of the game’s top 30 or so hitters, not a very solid firstbaseman.

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

Carroll,

I haven’t seen the movie. What part reveals the backward, ignorant, intolerant mentality of our society? Isn’t it about a fictional guy that comes from a backward, ignorant, intolerant culture? Maybe intolerance is appropriate sometimes.

By Carroll

November 16, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

Shaun: See the movie, then we’ll talk.

And you’re absolutely right that the name of the game is outscoring the other team…but this last season should have proven to you that it’s not so easy to “outscore” your own pitiful pitching…in other words, you can’t compensate for weak pitching with good offense…how many freakin times did we see it last year where we’d get a lead and the pitcher would break his neck give it right back to the other team…or we’d fight back valiantly from a huge deficit only to see the pitcher screw the pooch the very next inning….or they’d get us so far behind the 8 ball before the game even got started…very demoralizing. And I never said anything about pitching being the key to winning in the playoffs…clearly, it is key to just getting there.

By Lew

November 16, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

Carroll-I thought KC was delusional about how bad pitching had gotten. I was wrong. There were only 28 pitchers in the Major Leagues this past season with UNDER a 4.0 ERA. With pitching this pitiful, you have to have offense to win games. I’m sorry-you’re just completely wrong. LaRoche is cheap and hits for power and now looks like he might hit for average, also. You mentioned that strong defense was important , too. LaRoche had one error LESS that the Gold Glove winner. Even considering trading Francoeur or McCann just proves you don’t have a clue. I’d rather go into the season with John Thomson as the fifth starter than to trade these guys. You can’t trade the nucleus of your team because of rampant pitching paranoia.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 16, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

shaun brings up an interesting point about outscoring the other team. this is the key to winning. this journalist remembers the braves losing several games in a stretch where they scored 8 or more runs. this, does not make for a happy baseball team. pitching is the key ingredient in keeping the other team from scoring so many runs that 8 runs will not beat them. pitching, and healthy toes will go a long way to correcting the problems of last season.

now, white fruitcake … best left alone by jimmy smith.

grinch should google claxton fruit cake and learn the many wonders of the little brick cake.

oh, the humanity! where is all this zombie talk going? remember, we are talking undead here. now, who would appear to be a zombie on this team? no feeling in one’s fingers?! why no feeling? stopped feeling long ago? undead perhaps? oh, the humanity! it is not nice to call a player on our team a zombie - even if pitching as one.

By Blake

November 16, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

Just heard Juan Pierre is probably getting a contract at 3-yrs 30-mill or more. What a joke!

By geauxbraves2000

November 16, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

I don’t much like to throw around trade possibilities, but how about this one: Peavy and Linebrink to Atlanta for Giles, HoRam and Salty.

Interesting.

Geaux Braves!!

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Carroll,

Depends on how bad the pitching and how good the offense is as to whether you can score enough runs to make up for horrible pitching.

Power pitching and defense is actually the key to winning in the playoffs and run differential is the key to just getting there, no matter how you do it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=betweenthenumbers/billybeane/060405

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

Lew,

Does the fact that ERA’s are higher than 4.00 for most pitchers indicate bad pitching? Could be other factors that are just leading to more runs being scored. And just because more runs are being scored that doesn’t necessarily mean the pitching is any worse than it was in other eras. Could just mean a different style of game. Could just mean both hitters and pitchers have gotten better but hitters have gotten better faster.

I’m sure those 28 are only pitchers that would qualify for the ERA title. I’m sure there were other pitchers with lower ERA’s.

Run scoring increased in the mid-late 1990’s. The technique and strategy of the game changed and ballparks changed. Pitching may or may not have gotten worse. Higher ERA’s just indicate and increase in scoring and doesn’t necessarily mean worse pitching.

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

Troy, you asked: DOB- Are you gonna be on the baseball beat with Charlie Steiner on XM radio anytime soon?

Maybe not, since he asked me a question last time and I couldn’t immediately answer because I was eating a sandwich (which he then asked me to describe).

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Don, you asked: I understand LaRoche is going nowhere, however, would the Braves ever seriously consider a Chipper move to 1st base?

Sure they could. Maybe even a year from now. You just never know what might happen. LaRoche might have a huge year and sign a multi-year extension. He might have a terrible year and be traded next winter.

He might get hurt and the Braves (and Chipper) might agree that a move to first makes sense. My point is, you just never know what’s going to happen. But yes, Chipper could end up there eventually _ it’d be more likely than him moving back to the outfield, I’d guess.

By Lew

November 16, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

Shaun-I’m not debating whether or not the pitching is bad or it’s other factors. It’s immaterial. The fact is that most pitchers are now giving up 4+ runs per game. To counteract this trend, the only thing you can do is score more runs than your opponent, hence, not giving up inexpensive offense like LaRoche, Francoeur and McCann. The Braves are not going to be able to pay for top line pitching (not sure exactly what that is anymore) and giving up the players that may give you a fighting chance is stupid. Giles is replaceable and may bring relief help in return. Do you really think teams will give up top starters for LaRoche (or anyone, for that matter)? GeauxBraves-If the Padres won’t trade Linebrink straight up for Giles, what makes you think they’ll part with Peavey for Salty and Horacio?

By journalist jimmy smith

November 16, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

sometimes the truth is stranger than fishin’

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Lew,

In that case, I agree. I misunderstood because I thought you said pitching was bad.

And I also agree, no one is going to give up top starters unless they have plenty of them and they get the best hitters in the game in return.

Yes, you need to score about 5 runs a game to even have a shot. The lowest run allowed average in the NL of the last three years was 3.91 per game.

By geauxbraves2000

November 16, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

Lew, I think Kevin Towers is blowing smoke about not trading Linebrink. If it’s not to the Braves I feel certain it would be to someone else.

HoRam may thrive better in pitcher friendly Petco if he can stay healthy.

A deal like that probably won’t happen, but it’s just interesting to think about. I probably wouldn’t mind seeing Peavy in a Braves uni.

The only problem with that deal is getting rid of Giles. I really don’t want him to be traded, but I do understand why he’s on the block.

Geaux Braves.

By rammerjammer

November 16, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it logical to assume JS will have to part with more than Giles to get pitching?

If other teams want proven performers, we have - I think - three possibilities to trade.

Giles, Renteria, LaRoche.

They range from good to very good. Each is affordable (LaRoche, of course, is a steal) and could attract good pitching.

Personally, I’d be most reluctant to part with LaRoche, because he’s young, he clearly turned the corner last season and is on the cusp of being an elite player. And, he’s VERY affordable.

Renteria, while being very good, has probably played his best baseball. Giles is good but, like Renteria, has seen his peak.

All three can be replaced by players within the organization. Yes, it’s a risk and we will likely lose some production. We have room to do so. What we will gain in pitching will more than offset any loss.

I won’t address the usual Hudson, Hampton, Chipper, AJ nonsense because they are untradeable.

And I didn’t mention Salty, Escobar, et al because I don’t think JS will let them go. The new order (i.e., our payroll) really should motivate us to keep our most affordable players.

Anyway, just felt like stirring the pot. Getting bored watching other teams jump into the pool.

By Matthew

November 16, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

I’m worried. The market is skyrocketing (if reports are true) and the Braves’ payroll is stagnant. DOB (or anyone else) could you give me a quick, one or two line review of what JS is focusing on-in other words, what he thinks we cannot get by without. Also, if one of the number crunchers can remind me exactly how much the Braves have to spend? I’ve seen all the numbers, but they have been jumbled to me in the middle of all our speculation. If it has already been posted, I just need the time of the post and I can check it myself. Thanks very much.

Go Braves and Hogs! WPS

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

Here’s an answer to your pot-stirring antics:

LaRoche is a great player but I don’t know if he’ll ever be an elite player. As I pointed out yesterday, an average season from a player like Mark Teixeira is at least as good as LaRoche’s best season and they are roughly the same age. But, he is cheap, which makes him somewhat valuable. He’s a good-hitting firstbaseman which makes him less valuable. A team may be willing to trade for him if they need a firstbaseman but a)how many teams need a firstbaseman and b)how many teams are going to give up a player that could help the Braves any more than LaRoche once you take into account production and salary?

Renteria probably isn’t tradeable. As far as production for his position, he’s probably about the same as LaRoche but he makes more money.

Giles is tradeable because he’s good, fairly young and relatively cheap right now. He may have reached his peak but I would guess if he’s healthy he’ll peak in 2007. I think the Braves may want to keep him unless they get blown away by an offer. He’s still relatively cheap and he’s probably not going to bring in what he can produce. Is it worth letting him walk and getting nothing but draft picks? It may be. I think it is if he’s healthy for 2007.

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this

Matthew,

I wouldn’t worry too much. I think the Braves are setup pretty well for next season. Schuerholz job should be to try to improve the team without messing up too much. The offense scored the 2nd most runs. The pitching has to get better because there’s nowhere to go but up. The Braves probably don’t have any Johan Santanas but they have a lot of quality pitchers. Their pitching depth is definitely a strenghth. If Schuerholz can’t make a significant trade, I think the Braves will be just fine.

By Matthew

November 16, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

I agree that JS shouldn’t tinker TOO much with a good thing. The only problem I see is that if we were so good, then why did we lose so many games? i know that the bullpen was a BIG reason, and we have addressed that with Wickman. So really all we need is a reliever or two? Why then are we shopping Giles? Is a reliever worth an All-Star 2B? If the Linebrink deal doesn’t work, what other options are available? Someone mentioned Cla Meredith, but what has he proven-wasn’t he a rookie last year?

I guess I’m as clear as mud on this whole deal, which is why I’m not the GM (that, plus I’m too busy with my wife and son, the school, the church, our financial services business, ad nauseum…)

By rammerjammer

November 16, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I appreciate your observations.

Regarding LaRoche, he just turned 27 and his production has improved in each of his three seasons. And last season was his first not to be platooned. Imagine what it did to his confidence to have to sit in favor of Brian Jordan! Argh.

His second-half, with the confidence that comes from being the everyday player and prospering, may have been a preview of what he can do playing every day.

His slugging percentage was .655 after the break! And he takes a backseat to no one on defense.

Maybe that’s not an elite player, but it’s mighty, mighty good.

In fact, I’ve about talked myself out of suggesting he could be traded. That’s it. He’s off the market.

By ncscoots

November 16, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

Lew, I’ve been pounding the same drum for some time about the quality of pitching (Shaun, I’m not saying the pitching is worse, just that there is less pitching dominance), usually in response to the “we need to manufacture runs” position. In one of the posts above, someone suggested inserting Chone Figgins and Aaron Rowand (!) in the lineup to replace AJ and Giles, in effect putting in a couple of .260 hitters with a combined OBP of about .330. But, hey, they could steal a lot of bases, huh? Right. That kind of stuff renders the bullpen a moot point, since there would never be any leads to protect.

For a multitude of reasons, baseball today is played in an offensive environment, and no matter HOW good your pitching is (relatively), you must be able to score runs in bunches. Think the Tigers wanted Sheffield for his charisma? No, they needed a masher. Did the Padres re-sign Dave Roberts? No, because they need power, and will seek it in a corner outfield position. Hey, offensive failures in the post-season ain’t always about running into Koufax and Drysdale. Sometimes it’s because you just don’t have the lumber.

I agree the Braves need a starting pitcher, but trading an inexpensive, highly productive offensive player without a plan to replace the production is foolhardy. Even if someone such as Bonderman were the return of Bob Gibson, he’s still only pitching 35 games a year.

By Bob Montag

November 16, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

The Braves are all talk so don’t expect anything big to happen.

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Matthew,

I hope the Braves want more than just Linebrink.

I honestly thing that the Braves lost so many games because of bad luck or misfortune (whatever you want to call it)—pitching injuries and losing a lot of close games. Based on run differential, the Braves could have easily been in the Wild Card hunt up until the very end, maybe winning it, had they been a little more fortunate.

By jason

November 16, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Is it just me or do the Braves not want to get their staff back up to an “elite level”??? We have a perfectly good backup plan for first base with Jarrod Saltamalacchia. By trading Laroche for Bonderman, we open up a spot for Salty that wouldnt have been there otherwise, and get an elite young pitcher in return. I love Laroche but would do this in a heartbeat.

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

I agree. LaRoche is a great player, just not up there with the elite firstbasemen. And he’s in his prime right now. And the fact that he’s cheap is even better. I’m very happy he’s a Brave.

I would hope the Braves would ask for a lot to get rid of him. But at the same time I don’t think a team would give up much for him considering he’s not an elite firstbasemen and decent firstbasemen are relatively easy to find.

By Ted

November 16, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

A lot of speculation about Laroache, which we don’t even know if his name came up at all in the meetings. We do need to get some good young starting pitching though and JS knows that the Tigers have an abundance like we used to have. The Tigers are going to need a catcher in a few years and since Salty is apparently blocked by McCann (one of the best in the game, the only reason he didn’t get more applause was b/c of Mauer) so it could very well be possible that they were talking about somehting of that sort. Personally I would love to see us bring in one of the Tigers’ electric young arms, my choice would be Andrew Miller (just graduated from UNC, where I go to school). Miller is an electric 6’6” lefty and we may have to give up Salty and maybe one of our middle infield prospects. Miller could possibly even compete for a spot in the rotation this spring as good as he is and that would open up the door to trade HoRam maybe mid-season to get another piece for the stretch run. Our main weakness last year was our bullpen not so much starting pitching. If you look at the stats we blew 24 saves last year, we only lost the WC by 9 games, even if we had converted half of those we would have been in the playoffs. Needless to say, even though we were using spot starters like it was a contest to see how many we could use, we still should have made the playoffs. Our rotation going into next year is looking pretty dang solid with Smoltz, Hampton (most come back from TJ surgery and do very well, so he should at least be respectable next year), Hudson (can’t be much worse than last year), James (a bright spot for the org.), and HoRam (as of right now, who could finally turn things around). Most teams would love to have a rotation with that type of depth. Everyone if freaking out because for the first time in 14 years we weren’t in the playoffs and the main reason was our bullpen. JS knows that that was our main problem and has already started to attend to it. More than likely Giles will be traded for Linebrink in the end (yesterday Towers traded and got two more relievers), no GM is going to come right out and say oh I want to trade so and so for so and so because in the end they want to make the best deal for their team. I’m confident that JS is going to work his magic and we will be in the playoffs next year because most of the NL is mediocre.

By jason

November 16, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

I love the thought of Andruw Jones getting traded… We cannot possibly keep him, that is out of the question. So why not build up our staff and free up 13 million dollars at the same time? I like Jones to Los Angeles for Ervin Santana and Chone figgins. We would have enough money left for a bat and we would sure up the lead off spot and give a great pitcher for the future.

By 2007 Mets

November 16, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

The braves will get no sympathy from teams like the Pirates, Brewers, Marlins Ect Ect because their budget is being limited to 80-90 million.

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

ncscoots,

I’m not so sure there is less dominant pitching. I think a lot of things could give the illusion of less dominant pitching. Maybe, but it’s hard for me to believe athletes have gotten bigger, stronger, faster, quicker in every sport but pitchers have gotten worse or less dominant.

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

jason,

I would trade LaRoche for Bonderman, but I don’t think there’s any way the Tigers would do it—not a chance. I just read something today that said Bonderman is now likely off the market.

By DonCoburleone

November 16, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

I’m hearing all this talk about Chone Figgins on the Angels - FORGET IT! Every team in the majors has tried to trade for Figgins, aint happening. The player on the Angels (and I brought him up last year) that I would want is Meicir Izturis. He’s young, cheap, fast, and a great contact hitter with some plate discipline. He plays really anywhere in the infield and he would be great. Look up his stats from last year, this guy is basically a poor-man’s Chone Figgins. He just can’t play the outfield like Chone can…

Andruw Jones and a prospect to Angels for Meicir Izturis and Ervin Santana/Jared Weaver… And believe me guys, this trade is WISHFUL THINKING, the Angels I don’t think would even consider it…

By Carlos Amato

November 16, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Just a question. If the Braves sign Chone Figgins, like most people in this blog desire, what will be his nickname?

Chony? Chofy? Choggy?

I just can’t imagine a lineup with Roachy, Langy, Choggy and Frenchy. Just too childish…

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

jason,

I read, in a espn.com chat with Rob Neyer, that the Tigers were going to choose between Humberto Sanchez and Bonderman and chose Sanchez (in the Sheffield deal).

By DonCoburleone

November 16, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

And just for the record, I was saying last year before the deadline to trade AJ b4 his 10-5 rule came into play. There is NOOOO way he is a Brave next season. Why do you think the Braves backloaded Hudson’s contract for 2008 and 2009? They knew AJ’s contract would be off the books - $13.5mil gone. Huddy’s salary jumps by 7 million I think, so there goes a good chunk of that money….

What about Smoltz in 2008? Where will the Braves get the money?

By Mike

November 16, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

According to jerry crasnick of espn radio the braves are in serious talks with the padres about a possible deal that would give us Jake Peavy for Giles, Horacio, and salty.

What do you think about this deal? I love it!

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

By Glass Half Full

November 16, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

ESPN is reporting that the Braves are close to a deal for Jake Peavy in exchange for Giles, Ramirez, and Salty.

By Glass Half Full

November 16, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

Trading both ramirez and giles would free up a couple of million dollars…Peavy ONLY made $2.5 million last year.

By DonCoburleone

November 16, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

BALTIMORE — The Orioles reportedly have agreed to terms with left-handed reliever Jamie Walker on a lucrative three-year contract. The Baltimore Sun and New York’s Daily News have reported that Walker will be an Oriole, pending a physical and an announcement by the club. Walker, who’s thought by many to be the premier southpaw specialist on the market, will reportedly receive a contract worth $11.5 million spread over three seasons. That would more than triple his most recent salary. Walker, who had never been eligible for free agency before, made $1.25 million last year in his highest-paid season.

this guy would have been perfect for Atlanta… Of course, $3.8mil a season for a lefty specialist is not exactly do-able for the Braves.

By eware

November 16, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

Could somebody provide a little insight in to what Peavy would bring to the table. I don’t know enough about him. Is he worth trading three good players?

It seems to be like another player from the Padres should be thrown in the mix.

By Matthew

November 16, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Is Peavy that good, for the Braves to give up Giles, HoRam, and Salty? I would be okay with this if there were a Padre prospect, maybe a good A or AA level pitcher in the mix as well. Shaun, what do you have on Peavy? Is he worth a 3 for 1 deal? mlbtraderumors.com comments section is filled with people saying how bad this deal is for the Pads. Do we agree?

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Mike,

Not a bad trade. I would like to see the Braves get one more decent player in addition to Peavy.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 16, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

he’s here today, dob. using a new name - but he’s here. this journalist has a friend in the mailroom on marietta street. the odious letter will never be delivered. instead, this journalist has arranged for wendel wurlitzer to write ms. cox chambers and suggest that a wurlitzer winning writer is worthy of writing a weekly or bi-weekly column. that, should take some of the sting out. stink out? sting? oh, the humanity! now, baseball … dob will be burning up this blog soon with news of a major trade. this journalist heard some suspenders snap in the braves’ suite of offices moments ago. that means a deal is done. or maybe means someone snapped his suspenders, not sure.

By Matthew

November 16, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

FoxSports reports that Wes Helms signed with the Phillies. We were discussing him a few days ago, so I thought I’d post this.

http://www.benmaller.com/

By Shaun

November 16, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

eware,

Peavy could be one of the best starters in the league. His Defense Independent Stats have been great the past couple of years. With the Braves, I think he could be a 15-18-game winner.

By RC

November 16, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

Peavy is one of the best young pitchers in the major leagues. One of the few true #1 starters out there in his mid 20’s. If this trade has not yet happened, I’m betting it’s because the Braves are demanding another prospect be thrown in to even out the deal. Value wise I’d say the 3 the Braves are giving up are worth more, but Peavy is worth at least twice as much as any one of the players included, and you only get 25 roster spots.

By ncscoots

November 16, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you kinda missed my point there, bubba. I didn’t say that pitchers had not improved (bigger, faster, stronger, etc). What I said was that there are fewer dominant pitchers, whether that’s because of ballparks, weight training, dilution of pitching talent, whatever. I wasn’t trying to pinpoint the reason that pitchers in general give up more runs, simply that they do. Sorry, but an ERA of 3.50 is not a dominant pitcher in my book, and an ERA over 4 is mediocre at best.

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

I just checked into that Peavy rumor and was told it was not happening and was not even discussed by the two teams, at least not in that form _ Giles, Horacio and Salty for Peavy. I trust the source who told me, and he would definitely know.

By Mike

November 16, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

I agree that we should have another throw in player but lest look at this. The guy is only 24/25 years old has a record 12 games above 5 hundred, has led the nl in era and strike outs, in two different seasons. He had 215 strike outs last year granted he is coming off his worst season as a major leaguer. However, I think this kid is a front line pticher for years to come.

Plus as others have mentioned this does free up some money for us to be somewhat more active and even sign roberts (I do not agree with signing roberts the guy is 34 and if my memory seves me correctly has never played a full season. Do we really want to be on the hook when he is 36 and 37 for 5 million a year?

By kinley

November 16, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I agree. Peavy’s pretty damn good, but he struggled with shoulder soreness in 2006. I’d like to at least get someone else in the deal, so that if Peavy’s shoulder doesn’t hold up, we would get SOMETHING in return.

Peavy’s ‘04 and ‘05 stats were pretty impressive: ‘04: 15-6, 2.27 ERA, 173/53 K/BB, .236 BAA in 166.1 IP ‘05: 13-7, 2.88 ERA, 216/50 K/BB, .217 BAA in 203 IP

Assuming ‘06 was an aberration due to his shoulder, it’s a solid deal. But wouldn’t it make sense to try to get some relief help out of the deal as well?

By Blake

November 16, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Unless someone has actually heard this straight from Crasnick or a reporter with knowledge of the meetings, then I wouldnt buy it. Hope I am wrong though

By DonCoburleone

November 16, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Oh man, that deal for Peavy would be GREAT!!!

Could you imagine, Smoltz-Peavy-Hudson-Hampton-James as next years starting rotation???

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

And if Jerry supposedly said that on the radio, I wonder why he hasn’t written it on ESPN.com. Hmmm….

The danger of following everything you read on fan blogs, etc. Maybe Jerry said that, but maybe someone anonymously just posted it on a blog, too. Guess we’ll know soon, because if he said it, he’ll write it.

Again, I’m told the teams haven’t talked about that deal.

By Lew

November 16, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Carlos-How about Figgy?

By ncscoots

November 16, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

DOB, you were spot on with your remark about Helms the other day getting an everyday deal. Good on him…Thanks for the info, Matthew.

By Matthew

November 16, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Do you know if there are negotiations going on between the Braves and Padres involving Giles and Peavy? I knew that Giles was rumored to go in exchange for Linebrink. Are the talks that heavy? Thanks for the good info.

By rammerjammer

November 16, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

eware,

Peavy is a classic power pitcher, just 25, 2nd in NL in Ks, “filthy” stuff.

Had a terrific last two months last season, helping to offset a somewhat disappointing year. ERA was slightly over 4 after consecutive years under 3.

Note: According to a Mark Bowman article in April, Peavy grew up in Alabama “idolizing Smoltz.”

NOTE TO JJS: Peavy suffered a bruised toe injury in September.

By DonCoburleone

November 16, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Padres ain’t going to trade Peavy away… Unless they are almost certain they can sign Zito…

By DonCoburleone

November 16, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

DOB, how about a new blog, this one is super slow…

By Carlos Amato

November 16, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

Lew, I think Figgy is ok. Well, not ok. Less silly, I guess.

So here’s our lineup: Figgy Renty Larry AJ Mccann Roachy Frenchy Langy

Sorry, Mccann. As brilliant as you are, no nickname, no lineup. Gotta put Salty in there…

By sgmock

November 16, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

DOB: Thanks for clearing that up. I guess we will just have to wait and see

By 22oz

November 16, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

Peavy in the rotation would be great, but i think Salty may be too much. maybe one of our middle infield prospects, but not Salty.

Peavy is an injury risk just like Horacio, so you can’t give up everything to get him.

By RC

November 16, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

22oz, it’s unfair to call Peavy and injury risk like Horacio. He’s put up back-to-back seasons of 200+ innings, with 215+ K’s in each. He’s also not made fewer than 26 starts in the past 4 years. All that being said, I don’t see ANY reason the Padres would consider trading him, especially since he’s signed through 2009 (09 is an option year).

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

OK, just to clear this up, I went straight to the horse’s mouth _ I called Jerry Crasnick. It’s all totally bogus. He said nothing of the sort, and last night Towers told him he’s got three starters for sure next year, Peavy one of them.

Again, Jerry NEVER SAID THIS RUMOR. Just another sad example of where we’ve gotten to, with people feeling good about themselves by starting rumors with no basis of fact and attributing them to others. Oh, well.

By KJ

November 16, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

okay, here is an idea, just throwing something out there, really far fetched but who knows i have seen dumber ideas baltimore has patterson, who got back to his early numbers last year, 16hr’s 45sb’s, they also have brian roberts at second base, thinking maybe slide them a young catcher, and giles, or outfielder for one of them, this one is really far fetched…just throwing more ideas out for fun… andruw jones, edgar renteria, and another player for erik bedard, miguel tejada, and corey patterson, remember just throwing a new idea out, u know tejada wants out of baltimore, lol and bedard as talent, anyways i will see what kind of response this gets

By rammerjammer

November 16, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

IF we got Peavy, he would undoubtedly improve under the leadership and example of Smoltz.

He was born and raised and still lives in Mobile and would likely be thrilled to be close to home, you can bet.

He’d be a super addition to the staff. You can’t worry about the three who would leave.

Only one, Salty, even figured in our future and even then, only as trade bait. With McCann and LaRoche, there’s no room for him.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 16, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

yes, rammerjammer is right … jake peavy suffered a debilitating toe injury when he walked into a sofa leg at home. he suffered from bruised, tender, and painful toe. he had to shut it down until healed. this is better than players who have no feeling but have to shut down because of pain. hmmm…

anyway, this journalist believes dob when dob says this deal ain’t happenin’. now, why did those suspenders snap? stay tuned to the dob braves man in black panda blog.

By Drummerdad

November 16, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

DOB, I read a perspective on the Braves recently (sorry, but I forget where) that listed the team as having been a Cadillac organization, but now at around a “B” status. I liked your description of the Braves having a “stagnant” payroll while many others’ is escalating. It’s started to feel like a young couple who can’t make ends meet so they keep dipping into savings. Eventually there ain’t much left. I’ve never liked it when beancounters run the show. Beancounters are ruining the musical instrument business for the small business owner these days. And these guys are starting to make me feel as if there’s a noose tightening around my team’s neck.

By rammerjammer

November 16, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for setting the record straight. Ah, the information superhighway!

By kj

November 16, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

have we considered signing delluci, he has good pop in his bat, or dotel, that could be risky considering health problems, how about aubrey huff whats your thoughts on him, just thought i would throw some more new names out there

By GM Wannabe

November 16, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

It’s really too bad about the false rumors regarding Peavy.It was/is a very steep price to pay though. We can all forget about Bonderman too. Detroit has just re-signed Sean Casey so they have no need for LaRoache.

By ernesto

November 16, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry that Peavy for Giles, HoRam and Salty would be a bad deal. I know Peavy’s better than his 11-14, 4 + era last year, but that’s too much to give up. Giles and HoRam, tops. Salty’s a young kid, and who knows what the future holds. And I think that kids going to be a stud one day, I don’t want ti to be for someone else.

By Mike

November 16, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

mlbtraderumors just apologized for the eronious post about peavy to the braves. I apologize for bringing it on this blog. Once again sorry for the bad info, I thought is sounded to good to be true.

By DonCoburleone

November 16, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

This Peavy rumor is BS!!!

By Thomas

November 16, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

Braves: Scratch Dave Roberts off the Braves’ list of potential free-agent acquisitions. The Atlanta Journal Constitution reported that the Braves are no longer interested in Roberts, who could command a three-year, $15 million contract.

By DonCoburleone

November 16, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

If anyone on this blog thinks that the Peavy trade would have been a bad deal for the Braves, you are NUTS! You can fight about the quality that the Braves would have been giving up, but all 3 of those players named are expendable. Giles is for sure gone after this season if he’s not traded, HoRam is an injury proned soft throwing lefty who has shown really NO improvement since his rookie year, and Salty is a year older than our current SILVER SLUGGER award winning catcher in the bigs! You’ve got to be kidding me if you think this would have been a bad trade for the Braves…

By David

November 16, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

DOB how about a new blog? it doesn’t have to be in depth, just something new, this blog is unwieldy.

Thanks

By DonCoburleone

November 16, 2006 06:20 PM | Link to this

Okay, here are some free-agent middle relievers who could be a fit for the Braves… DOB feel free to dismiss any of these names if you like…

Doug Brocail, Alan Embree, David Weathers, Brian Meadows, Aaron Fultz, Ron Villone(which DOB I think you confirmed Villone as a possibility).

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 16, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

Thomas: that’s not quite what the AJC (and DOB) reported. here’s the quote:

“The Braves are among several bidders for the services of free-agent left fielder/leadoff man Dave Roberts, who hit .293 with 13 triples, 49 stolen bases and a .360 on-base percentage for San Diego.

A person familiar with negotiations said contract terms — three years and close to $5 million per season — were past a point where the Braves felt comfortable in dollars or contract length for a 34-year-old who’s never played 130 games in a season and totaled 115 or fewer in three of the past four.”

i think that “contract terms…were past a point where the braves felt comfortable” and “the braves are no longer interested in Roberts” mean two different things.

By The Grinch

November 16, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

Howdy, all. The free agents seem to be getting snapped up rather quickly. While a leadoff hitter or a durable no. 2 or 3 starter would be nice, I don’t think the Braves really need a whole lot. Last year contained so much bad luck it would be almost impossible for it to be duplicated. If we don’t make any changes at all (especially since we have Wicky now) I’d bet this team will win 12-15 more games on its own. Most of the bad luck is now with the Falcons, who may be the most injury-devastated football team in the last few years.

By CR

November 16, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this

Hey, did you happen to see the most beautiful girl in the world? And if you did, was she crying, crying? Hey, if you happen to see the most beautiful girl that walked out on me Tell her, “I’m sorry.” Tell her, “I need my baby.” Oh…. Won’t you tell her that I love her.

I woke up this morning and realized what I had done I stood alone in the cold gray dawn I knew I’d lost my morning sun I lost my head and I said some things Now come the heartaches that morning brings I know I’m wrong and I couldn’t see I let my world slip away from me So…….

Hey, did you happen to see the most beautiful girl in the world? And if you did, was she crying, crying? Hey, if you happen to see the most beautiful girl that walked out on me Tell her, “I’m sorry.” Tell her, “I need my baby.” Oh…. Won’t you tell her that I love her.

Hey, did you happen to see the most beautiful girl in the world? And if you did, was she crying, crying? Hey, if you happen to see the most beautiful girl that walked out on me Tell her, “I’m sorry.” Tell her, “I need my baby.” Oh…. Won’t you tell her that I love her.

If you happen to see the most beautiful girl that walked out on me Tell her, “I’m sorry.” Tell her, “I need my baby.” Oh…. Won’t you tell her that I love her

By DonCoburleone

November 16, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this

Anyone against trading Edgar Renteria??

By J-MAN

November 16, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

I got to agree with David this blog has become stale, we need a new one. And I want to know if the Angles have indeed offered a 7 year 119 Million deal to Soriano because I’ve read it on other sites and I’ll come to you to see if theres any truth to it. Also whats the latest with the hot stove league. * D.O.B I gotsa know*!!!

By journalist jimmy smith

November 16, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

yes, it is true. though planters peanuts have been around for 100 years, “mr. peanut” was drawn in 1916 and first appeared as a company spokesperson in 1918. that makes mr. peanut 90 years old. mr. peanut attended school with braves presence brian jordan. now, baseball … this journalist is reminded of when jordan and mondesi were brought in because the braves were not able to spend for front-line players for the outfield. hmmm… is it happening again?

By chris

November 16, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

What about bringing J D DREW back

By Bob, journalist

November 16, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this

That this Blog is slow and in need of changing is a matter of perception … but, but I, for one, support the notion …. when I just now logged onto this one, I seriously thought that the Trojan Horse had evaded detection and had reinstalled the viruses that were giving me so much trouble!

I also agree with The Grinch … and think that we’re better than we collectively think and hope that parts that ain’t broke don’t get fixed. I don’t especially see the need for any trades but, if I were so interested, I might consider trading both members of the “keystone combination”.

I haven’t yet found the old records themselves, but did find an old note indicating that Tubb, Rogers and Williams are included.

Grinch, I doubt that the current fare at The Tavern will meet my expectations but, based on your comments regarding earlier performances … it’s on my “to do” list while at my brother’s sometime during the next 2-3 weeks … do they serve buttermilk?

Later …

By Thomas

November 16, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

Daybed Wagmoe, I just read it from mlb hot stove, and i’m against Edgar Renteria, because there is no reason to trade him. Blue Jays signed Frank Thomas…

By Tomahawkin

November 16, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

Grinch Is N Da House!

Da Tommy is a little late on this but, the statement that we need pitching because it will get us into the postseason…is a little misleading I think If you don’t have an offense that can manufacture, runs especially in the postseason…

we didn’t win with those cold pitching staffs in the 90’s so I think you need a balence of decent(Not stellar)pitching, stellar defense and an offense good enough to where they can be able to manufacture runs, when the longball doesn’t work (ABC offense) to win consistantly let alone in the postseason…

It seems like in every playoff except 4 95, our offense forgets how to manufacture runs, no matter how sick our rotation was…

but those playoff failures are Moot…

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this

Daybed, thanks for pointing out that that quote that Thomas got from wherever he got it is not what I reported about D. Roberts. While it’s past the point the Braves were comfortable with, that doesn’t at all mean they won’t sign him _ every time they’ve signed a guy, pretty much, in the past five years they’ve gone beyond what they’d hoped to initially. Means nothing.

DonC, some good names on that list. I’ve always liked Weathers, since covering him when he was a STARTER for the Marlins (rotation that also included Pat Rapp and Chris Hammond, if not mistaken). He’s a bit long in tooth, but still a reliable reliever and plenty of postseason experience….

J-Man, I agree with David that this blog’s become unwieldy. I don’t agree with you that it’s become stale. Other than complaints about it being stale, which are pretty stale and don’t really add anything to the conversation.

I’ll write another, but probably not until tomorrow. If that’s not soon enough for ya, sorry dude. Don’t know what to tell you.

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

CR, thanks much for the Charlie Rich. That’s a damn fine tune, and a great album. Brings back memories. My dad used to play that and Junior Walker and the All-Stars (“Shotgun”) seemingly every night while him and the other neighbor dads were drinking beer on the back porch in Greenville, N.C….

By Tomahawkin

November 16, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

The only trades that I’m interested in are da ones that happen out of nowhere, The one’s That slips under ESPN’s radar

Oh yea, and if we trade Reeksma, I’ll have to celebrate by drinking a 40oz of Samuel Adams… Ummm! Ummm!….B-y-t-c-h!

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

I agree _ no reason to trade Renteria whatsoever. Are you kidding, in this marketplace the $6 mill the Braves are paying him is an absolute STEAL.

Did you check the figures on the Big Hurt signing? Absolutely incredible. Ridiculous. And it sounds like J.D. Drew is going to get about $14 mill a year in a four-year deal…. Stunning.

Also, considering where the pitching market’s going, the $13 mill salaries in each of the 2008-09 seasons are starting to look like they could be way under market by then, provided he has any kind of bounceback. And if he continues to put up relatively mediocre numbers, it still won’t look like a terrible deal, considering that the likes of Vicente Padilla could get 10 freakin’ million a year.

And if Hudson somehow, some way, can return to something resembling the form he had in Oakland, he’ll be incredibly valuable either for the Braves or a a trade piece a year from now….

By Thomas

November 16, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

Every year, the contracts keep beign bigger, and bigger. Last year Toronto started to offer the big bucks to BJ Ryan, AJ Burnett, it settled the pattern of highly paid contracts. Then the Cubs, with Bob Howry, and Eyre. Then Wagner. Dont be surprised if Soriano lands a 25 million contract this year.

By Glass Half Full

November 16, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

Not to be negative here, but did the Braves accomplish anything during this week’s meetings?

By J-MAN

November 16, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this

D.O.B I wasn’t popping a shot at you all I was saying was we need a new blog, soemthing fresh, something to keep interest, because in the wheeling-and-period that is the free agency signing period and trade talks I just think that hearing about the same old rumors for and not hearing any new ones is redundant and since your the man with the info all I’m saying is “let a dude in the know” Bacause this is for me the most exciting point on my Braves and baseball calendar.Anyways sorry about da beef but I just gotsa keep it real and thats about it dude.

By nathan

November 16, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this

DOB

Did I just read correctly? Padilla could get about 15 million a year?!!!

Sorry, man. I had to. You talk about Renteria being a steal at 6 million (which he is), but how about Smoltz? Now THAT’S a steal!

Also, you talk about Hudson, returning to form and making his deal not look so bad? While possible, for whatever reason, I just don’t see it happening. I’m not sure if it’s a NL/AL thing or what. But he just doesn’t look right. Hampton on the other hand, for some reason I’ve got this feelin’ he’s gonna shock a lot of people. Wouldn’t it be somthing if HE made his deal, not look that bad? That would be FUNNY.

By Andy

November 16, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this

David Weathers is garbage. Sign Aaron Fultz, and trade for a setup man along the lines of a Scott Linebrink. With a healthy Boyer, more experienced McBride, and true closer in Wickman, the pen won’t be so bad. I believed the Peavy rumor because schuerholz always seems to pull a great deal like that out of his sleeve. Peavy is from Alabama, I believe, and Giles and Horacio are from So.Cal. It made sense in those regards. Horacio is inconsistent and Giles is a goner. I don’t know why the Padres would do that expcept for the fact it would solve their second base issue and they think horacio still has promise. Saltamacchia is the key to the deal. I think that deal would have been incredible for the Braves. Imagine the rotation with him at the top. Hopefully Schuerholz can pull it out. Its not likely considering though. Peavy is only paid in the lower 2 million range and is so young.

By Tomahawkin

November 16, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this

Damn Salaries, are becoming crazier every year…and Who pays 4 it…? You want see my Na-r-r-o-w a* overspending at the ballpark this year, Dis crap is nonsense

Give me my foam tomahawk, and 12 pack of bud select and a TV and I’m ready to go, These athlete’s got me f-ck-d up to spend 100 dollars at a venus only to spend 4 hours on a blown save by the blowpen, plus I’d better enjoy listening to Skip, Pete, Chip, and Joe before TBS gets rid of them too…

By nathan

November 16, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this

Glass Half Full

“Not to be negative here, but did the Braves accomplish anything during this week’s meetings?”

I’m with ya dude! It’s starting to feel a LOT like last offseason. JS won’t pull the trigger on a guy like Roberts, but I’m sure he’ll make a late desperate trade for him in July. Too little, too late like last year.

I continue to stand by what I said last week about JS. I believe he’ll do the right thing this year. But right now it seems like a lot of nothin. I read somewhere that he makes a lot of the contacts for his December deals at the November winter meetings each year, but I’ve just got a gut feeling that with the way things are going, waiting until December might be the wrong move.

I guess really, I’m just tired of speculating about what our roster will look like (or even a portiion of it), so I’m just frustrated that NOTHING has happened, or even been rumored, other than the same old same with the Giles/Linebrink deal.

JS strikes me as a guy who “picks” a player that he feels would be the best fit, and goes after him (not neccessarily at ALL COSTS - but he makes sure a deal gets done), could it be DOB that NOBODY out there that is “available” interests him that much. He wouldn’t dare NOT MAKE ANY MOVES, this offseason, would he?

By Tomahawkin

November 16, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

I’ll take dat back about not paying to see games in stadiums, There are only certain players that I’d pay to see. Pay-Rod, Sheffield, Pujols, A. Jones, Ichiro, among others, and that list in only about a dozen names…

Also Minor Leage Baseball Rules, and only a fraction of the price

Autozone Park in Memphis competes up there with Turner Field in terms of excitment, and I only paid seven bucks to sit beyond the right-field wall…

By The Grinch

November 16, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this

GHF (per your 9:19 post), yes; they didn’t do anything stupid.

T’hawkin;, thanks for the props! Sam Adams doesn’t make a 40, but I expect they appreciate the sentiment.

Bob, the fare at the Tavern gets the job done, but it’s not to be considered a “night out for the food.” The main attraction is seeing a company put on the Bard’s plays in doublets and hose without PC editing in an environment where audience participation is welcome. Don’t see that sort of thing too much anymore; I’ve written a review of “Merchant of Venice” I’m about to put up on my site; I’ll send you a copy if you’re interested.

By kinley

November 16, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin:

Indeed, the minors rule. Riverdogs games here in Charleston are always a blast. Only problem is that I always end up drinking too much and not remembering much of what happens :/

By The Grinch

November 16, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

DOB, waiting for tommorrow for a new blog is simply not acceptable. Do you think you have a life beyond us, or something? Drop whatever you’re doing and obey us NOW. :-)

By Thomas

November 16, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

Neal Cotts to Cubs, that could have been just what the braves were looking for. A left handed reliever young that can set up.

By Tomahawkin

November 16, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

Oh Shyt Grinch…Hold up, I meant to say A 40oz of Samuel Jackson, Ummm!! Ummm!!! B-y-t-ch! ,lol

I can’t drink Samuel Adams, dat stuff is nasty

By Tomahawkin

November 16, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

Kinley, I’ve done that before, I usually get to the games already tuned up…

BTW If D.O.B. goes to the gym, I bet he hears all that Pop Tart crap…I can’t stand the music they play when I go work out makes me crazy ese…but the young Sorostitutes love it, so I guess there is some consolation…

By journalist jimmy smith

November 16, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG - perhaps his new teeth will chatter in the cold of citicrap stadium after all. tom glavine is understood only to be posturing for the mets - making a clever play to increase the mets’ offer by acting like he’d come to atlanta to be close to his family. whatever happpened to the nights at the theater and days at the ny museums -reasons for which he left our fair city? did you see that chipper is taking credit for mccann’s hitting prowess? chipper has taught mccann to pound his hoof twice in the box. credit these two toe taps (two taps, not two toes) for mccann’s ability to stay back in the box and control the bat. now, music … “drive-by samite’s music is suffused with gentleness and warmth. his voice is a sort of husky ugandan croon, emotional, but not overly demonstrative.” journalist is happy to provide this service.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 16, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this

why is this journalist’s blog so slow? why does this journalist’s name not appear in blue type? oh, the humanity! only dob can write a proper blog.

By kinley

November 16, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

Man, back in high school, I saw Chipper’s toe-tap and started imitating it. The coaches at Duke baseball camp called it a hitch. Now it’s the reason McCann hit .333 with 24 homers. I hate those dudes

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

I don’t know, man, that was a pretty good one, if you ask me. seriously.

By The Grinch

November 16, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

T’hawkin’, you’ve been weaned on the light beer culture; 90% of what passes as “premium beer” here in America now wouldn’t be used to wash dishes with in Europe. Don’t worry, bro; one of these days I’ll help set you straight, although if you get hooked on real beer it’ll require more time at the gym to keep pace with the sorrostitutes. Hint: if it’s under 190 calories it isn’t a real beer.

Jimmy Smith, you’re not quite right in the head. :-)

By Blake

November 16, 2006 11:05 PM | Link to this

Check out Rosenthal’s article on Glavine at Fox Sports.

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 11:05 PM | Link to this

T-hawkin’, no no, my friend. That crap they play on the stereo at the gym is absolutely unlistenable. One of the main reasons I succumbed and finally bought an Ipod, and now I love the damn thing.

Got tired of switching between a couple of decent alt-rock stations and sports-talk radio during the day when I was on the treadmill or lifting.

It’s a whole new world now at the gym. Tonight I split my hour with the Ipod cranked to David Allan Coe, Arcade Fire and Wu-Tang Clan, all quite good for working out.

By The Grinch

November 16, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

T’hawkin’, I hear ya about the games; if I started drinking only when I got there it would cost me over a hundred bucks just to get a buzz (at least at Turner). Also with the gym music; if it wasn’t for my mp3 player I’d be doomed. You really think I sling iron to The Pussycat Dolls or Michelle Branch? Not. I do watch their videos in the background for inspiration while the Slayer and Godsmack are kickin’, though.

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

Just noticed the Grinch calling a man on Sam Adams not making a 40. Classic.

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

Nathan, it’s Nov. 16, man. Relax. Normally, there’s been almost nothing done by any teams at this point of the offseason. Some teams with cash just got things started earlier than usual. But if you look closely, you’ll see only a few teams really did anything significant this week. When you’ve got payroll constraints, you can’t just make moves to make moves. As you know, they can’t really afford to make mistakes.

The market for Giles isn’t going to diminish. They’ll end up getting some valuable pieces in return for him, I’m sure.

And Roberts is still out there, last I checked. Right? If the Braves get a leadoff man, two relievers and a starter this winter, I’d say they did everything they needed to do. If they get two relievers and a starter, it was a good-not-great winter. if they get two relievers and nothing else, mediocre winter.

One reliever and nothing else significant? That’d be pretty poor, in my view. And I don’t think that’ll happen. I really don’t.

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 11:23 PM | Link to this

ANDY, you wrote: “I believed the Peavy rumor because schuerholz always seems to pull a great deal like that out of his sleeve. Peavy is from Alabama, I believe, and Giles and Horacio are from So.Cal. It made sense in those regards. Horacio is inconsistent and Giles is a goner. I don’t know why the Padres would do that expcept for the fact it would solve their second base issue and they think horacio still has promise. Saltamacchia is the key to the deal. I think that deal would have been incredible for the Braves. Imagine the rotation with him at the top. Hopefully Schuerholz can pull it out.”

You wrote all of this about a non-issue. Do you understand, there was never such a deal discussed? That it was just someone playing a prank and posting it on a blog or offering it as a tip? That’s all. So to discuss it much further seems kinda silly. It wasn’t going to happen. Never discussed. Padres aren’t trading Peavy. He’s a potential 18-20 game winner making little money in a market where proven 18-20 game winners will cost you $15 mill.

By Tomahawkin

November 16, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

Normally I don’t drink a whole lot of beer, I usually be “on that shyt that will have you on that I don’t want no more”

If I’m watching a game however, I’ll mess wit some Bud-Ice

Oh God Don’t go there with the Pussycat Dolls and ALL that other pop tart crap, yuck

If Im p-i-s-s-ed while working out, I will need some heavy pantera…

By David O'Brien

November 16, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this

For my money, “From Elvis In Memphis” is the greatest album by The King _ I know, I know, it’s heresy to say it’s better than the Sun Records stuff. But I just love the late-60s soulful Elvis, like “In The Ghetto,” “Only The Strong Survive” (not as great as Jerry Butler’s version, but close), and “Suspicious Minds” and “Kentucky Rain” (bonus cuts on the remastered In Memphis album).

Oh, wait. I thought I was on the TCB blog…

By Tomahawkin

November 16, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this

Kinley, When I played High School baseball ( 4 homeruns in one game) I started out with the high legkick that David Justice used to do then I combined it with the Sammy Sosa Toe tap…Then after Watching Major League 2 for the first time in years, I added that Jack Parkman Shimmie (Where he shakes his arse while setting up in his stance)…Did the trick then, and I still use it when we play softball with the Keg…

By Bob, journalist

November 16, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

Grinch, If you ever get the chance, make sure to include Venice on your list of the places in Italy that are a “must see” … then it’s a only a short motorboat ride to the little island of Murano, home of the renowned glass furnaces and one of my favorite haunts.

Venice itself is a very beautiful and interesting place but most visitors never see the “real” Venice, hidden away from the tourists … sorta like driving through a State on the Interstate and thinking you’ve seen it!

That I would like to see your review of the tradesman from those parts goes without saying!

Tomahawkin, “Who pays for it?” … I posed the same question over 30 years ago … and honestly thought that baseball, as we knew it, would disappear from the scene within 20 years. And to think, folks called Rankin crazy when he paid 8 million for the Falcon Franchise.

By kinley

November 17, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

Tomahawkin, does the shimmy still make all the girls go crazy?

By Drummerdad

November 17, 2006 12:13 AM | Link to this

Are we a bored, hungry bunch of bloggers or what? Can’t wait for some significant action from the Braves braintrust. We’re like those overfed carp you see at that Budhist Temple in Honolulu. Jumping over each other, anticipating food everytime somebody out of the pond walks by. We’re sitting here drooling for action news. We should start some ridiculous rumor: 3Way Trade!! Braves get Gagne from Dodgers and Wells from Toronto in exchange for Francoeur, Ramirez, and John Thomson.

In the early 1970’s my brother worked for AP in Atlanta. Somebody on the sports desk of a new service floated this rumor that the Falcons were going to trade Steve Bartkowski to the Houston Oilers for Dan Pastorini. Seems like I remember him telling me that that set off a barnstorm.

By Tomahawkin

November 17, 2006 12:16 AM | Link to this

Try Playing softball on a 90 degree sunday afternoon, where everytime you cross homeplate = funneling a beer…After about 3 hours of that the chicks be ready…You guys should try playing softball wit a keg, dat shyt is fun as he!!

By Tomahawkin

November 17, 2006 12:21 AM | Link to this

Kinley….U Asked?

Tomahawkin, does the shimmy still make all the girls go crazy?

Damn Rite Playa…

By Tomahawkin

November 17, 2006 12:26 AM | Link to this

Drummerdad, Damn Rite, I’m bored, There’s a College party going on in my apartment complex, and I’m bout to hit it up, Check you guys Sunday nite, I’ll be working in the Orange Apron All weekend…as well as gettin my party on…

By Drummerdad

November 17, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

I guess Orange Apron means Home Depot? Anybody in here work at Starbucks? I hear you can work part time there and get health benefits. CEO of the company says they spend more on employee benefits than on product.

By The Grinch

November 17, 2006 12:56 AM | Link to this

DOB, good call on the mid-era Elvis. The hoopla was one thing, and a big one, but the fact is the man had both talent and style. Got a review of an interesting book partially about him (The Year the Music Changed, by Diane Thomas) on my site also. Good stuff; she had a book signing at my house. Anyhoo, a lot of people dismiss the king out of the gate because of the obscene things that happened; I’m a guy who comes to his music with a fresh perspective because I wasn’t there then (at least not as a consumer). I came about later with a historian’s and a music afficionado’s point of view; and the guy is beyond facinating. Even more so are the American people, who he exposed more than they did him (albeit unwittingly). But that’s a rant I won’t get into on this blog.

Bob, as soon as I figure out how to pay my electric bill, I’ll see about touring Venice. :-)

Drummerdad, at the rate mediocre pitchers are going for now we might need to keep John Thompson.

By The Grinch

November 17, 2006 01:04 AM | Link to this

Drummerdad, got a delivery of Windsor stones comin’ in from the orange apron boys tommorrow. Tryin’ to get my back patio finished (finally). As for Starbucks, I can’t handle caffiene so I don’t picture myself paying seven bucks to give myself an anxiety attack. Rather buy a nice dark German beer.

By Drummerdad

November 17, 2006 02:09 AM | Link to this

Grinch, I got ugly sick last weekend and it has messed with my caffiene tolerance. I’m having to slowly build my hyper tolerance back up. I do find that before a gig I love to sit at my drums with a practice pad (for quiet) on the snare drum and a good cup of coffee while I warm up my old bones. About 10 minutes worth of some stretching and sticking exercises I do and we’re off.
Enjoy the patio and the dark suds. As for Thomson, you’re probably right.

By The Grinch

November 17, 2006 02:33 AM | Link to this

Makes perfect sense that you’d like coffee; drummers are wired different than the rest of us mortals (although in fairness, most folks like coffee…even those such as DOB); I’m just a bright burning bulb (maybe more like a bug-zapper) that needs to keep the dark suds flowing just to be able to settle into the blues. Les Paul and I got a deal going. As for Thomson (thanks for pointing out he doesn’t spell it right), he was 14-9 in the AL before coming over here and tearing his finger up. You never know…G’night, all.

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 17, 2006 03:23 AM | Link to this

DOB - sure thing mang. so does your response mean that the braves will sign dave roberts??? i hope so. (just kidding of course. although i hope that the braves do sign him and he proves everybody wrong by playin 150 games…wishful thinking of course.)

By Shaun

November 17, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this

Shaun, you kinda missed my point there, bubba. I didn’t say that pitchers had not improved (bigger, faster, stronger, etc). What I said was that there are fewer dominant pitchers, whether that’s because of ballparks, weight training, dilution of pitching talent, whatever. I wasn’t trying to pinpoint the reason that pitchers in general give up more runs, simply that they do. Sorry, but an ERA of 3.50 is not a dominant pitcher in my book, and an ERA over 4 is mediocre at best.

Scoots,

A 3.50 ERA may be closer to a dominant pitcher in this era than it would have been in the past…that’s my point.

Sandy Koufax had a 1.73 ERA in 1966. Jack Coombs had a 1.30 ERA in 1910. Pedro Martinez had a 1.74 ERA in 2000 Was Coombs more dominant than Koufax or Martinez? No.

According to BaseballReference.com, Roger Clemens had an ERA 121 percent better than league average after adjusting for park effects (16th all-time in terms of percentage better than league average) in 2005. I would consider that dominant. Johan Santana had an ERA 82 percent better than league average in 2004, good for 84th all-time in terms of percentage better than league average.

I’m sure there are better ways to measure dominance (which would probably increase the number of dominant pitchers in this era, by the way) but ERA below the league average is a pretty good measure. And there are plenty of pitchers from the ‘00’s on the list of top 100 ERA’s below league average after adjusting for ballpark.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/ERAplus_season.shtml

(And for those who think I’m relying too much on stats, scoots is the one who brought up ERA.)

By Drummerdad

November 17, 2006 08:54 AM | Link to this

I’m not too familiar with the Texas Rangers lineup. Somebody please tell me who they have that we would give them Tim Hudson or Horacio Ramirez for?

By Lew

November 17, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

Shaun-Here’s a question for you. I’m not asking for stats, Dude, but an opinion-was Koufax, the greatest pitcher in a pitcher’s era, better than Maddux in the mid 90’s, who was the greatest pitcher in a hitter’s era? For that matter, anyone can answer. I’m interested in seeing what others think. The discussion is not just limited to these two, however.

By ncscoots

November 17, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I don’t know that we’re really in disagreement here, but we may be talking about different things. You’re correct about relative rankings as far as determining “dominance” in this era (not ERA, LOL), and I wasn’t trying to determine whether Koufax was more dominating than Santana. I was talking more about the relative worth of pitchers in today’s offensive environment versus various lineup strategies (I think…I’ve actually kind of lost the thread of it my own self, ha!). IMO, there are fewer pitchers who are able to consistently give their teams high probabilities of winning their starts when the team is average or mediocre offensively. There! I think I finally claryed the point to myself :-). I guess that would be just another, different definition of “dominant”, and certainly not the only one applicable. I certainly agree that primo pitching is an essential ingredient to success, don’t get me wrong. But, anymore, I don’t think you can heavily rely on pitching to win with a lineup scoring less than 5 runs a game. There just aren’t enough pitching studs to do it.

By Voice of Reason

November 17, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

In today’s NY Post:

“All-Star left-hander Tom Glavine, who isn’t signed yet and who has said he’ll pitch for the Mets or Atlanta, told The Post yesterday he is not leaning toward Shea Stadium or Turner Field. “I would say right now it’s a pretty solid 50-50,” Glavine said in a phone interview. Glavine’s remark is telling because although it is still early in the off-season, he has had almost a month since the Mets’ season ended to consider his future. His remark should also be worrisome, because although the Mets are optimistic he is going to return, if Glavine is at 50-50 now, there’s certainly a strong possibility he will pitch in 2007 with the Braves.”

By Voice of Reason

November 17, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

Lew:

The answer probably doesn’t go farther than Koufax or Bob Gibson. That’s a tough call… In a hitter’s era? Probably limited to Maddux/Clemens…

By Shaun

November 17, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Lew,

It’s hard to distinguish between Maddux and Koufax. I would take Maddux for the longevity. But if I had both in their three-five best seasons, tough choice.

By Shaun

November 17, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

ncscoots,

I would say there are just as many dominant pitchers, pitchers that give their teams a good chance at winning virtually every start, in this era than there has been in any other era. I just don’t know if they are distributed as evenly as they were in other eras. Look at the Astros who had Roy Oswalt and Roger Clemens the past few seasons. I would consider them dominant if you define dominant as giving an average offense a chance to win most of their starts.

I don’t think there were ever a lot of pitching studs at one time in any era of baseball history. I still say other factors give us the illusion that there may have been more pitching studs in past eras.

Pitchers that are a lot better than their league average ERA after adjusting for ballpark are pretty evenly dispersed throughout different eras, it appears. But I could be wrong.

By JasonInMaine

November 17, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Some people seem to not like the different rumblings that are out there to get posted, but that’s what a Blog’s for, so here is another one:

But Williams always likes to aim high, and sources say the Sox have strong interest in Atlanta Braves center fielder Andruw Jones, who might be willing to waive his no-trade protection to play for Ozzie Guillen. Jones will be a free agent next season, but his agent is Sox nemesis Scott Boras, so that could be a deal-breaker.

Click Here

By Shaun

November 17, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

VOR and Lew,

Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Clemens, Maddux, Seaver, Pete Alexander…all should be in the mix if we are talking about the best pitchers ever.

But pitching has changed so much over the years (mostly because of innings) that it’s extremely difficult to compare pitchers across eras even when you have something to reference. It’s almost like comparing quarterbacks to receivers, except pitchers play the same position.

Obviously dominant pitchers in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s contributed more to wins because they threw so many more innings than pitchers in the 2000’s or even pitchers in the 1960’s.

By The Grinch

November 17, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

Lord, how’d you like to be a Mets fan now dealing with this choad? We’ll be ok one way or the other, but they really need to know something. Now they know (to some degree) how Packers fans felt last year when Farve hijacked the whole off-season by riding around Mississippi on his Deere John. “Today I’m 50-50 about coming back and running the team. Tommorrow I’ll be 51-49. The next day I’ll be 51-49 the OTHER way. Ha! What do y’all think about my begonias?” People like that ought to be slapped around.

By journlaist jimmy smith

November 17, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

toe tappin’ since he was a child baseball player … this may be the reason chipper has bad toes (not sure how many). should chipper incorporate the shimmy suggested by tomahawkin it will surely destroy his oblique. now, let’s hope tomahawkin doesn’t work with saws … and whatever happened to hk and the graphs? we need some good graphs on here to liven it up a bit. and now, workout music … there can be nothing better than pan flutes and zithers to get the blood pumping during a good workout. now, baseball … what is wrong with a game that has to regulate how baseballs are stored at the park before play? why not keep them in the box they came in until needed? why not take the ball out of the box, remove the paper wrapper (still have those, right?), rub the ball up with canned ham gel, and use it in a game? humidors will be the death of the game - unless … would a humidor help bobby get one more season out of brian jordan? will he wrinkle in a humidor? much to consider.

By Lew

November 17, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

I’m pretty sure the toughest job in baseball was deciding in the mid 60’s who the Cy Young winner would be. There were some great ones then for sure. I’m not positive that I could choose between any of the greats. I do believe, however, that Sandy Koufax was the best I ever saw. But that’s a totally subjective evaluation. I could make a case for Gibby, Maddux or Clemens. Don’t want to forget Juan Marichal, either.

By Shaun

November 17, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

Lew,

Greatest pitcher before WWII: Walter Johnson

Greatest pitcher post WWII - 1980: Tom Seaver

Greatest pitcher 1980 - Present: Roger Clemens

By rammerjammer

November 17, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Has there ever been a performance like Steve Carlton’s in 1972, when he went 27-10 for a 59-97 team?

I wonder if, in the modern era anyway, any 20-win pitcher has accounted for a higher percentage of his team’s victories.

By Voice of Reason

November 17, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Agreed, Grinch. I’m on the side of the fence that would like to see TommyG come back to ATL for #300, but that desire is nothing compared to the twisting in the wind that the Mets fans are doing. I personally love it…

By Head Coach

November 17, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Since the AJC and MBL/Atlanta Braves websites have not mentioned this as of yet: Yunel Escobar won the 2006 Arizona Fall League batting crown with a .407 AVG.

By Shaun

November 17, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

Lew,

Well, also I’m sure it would have been pretty tough in the mid to late 1990’s if they only gave out one Cy Young (as they did in the old days) and you had to choose between Maddux, Clemens, Pedro, and Randy Johnson.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 17, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

let’s look closely at the 50/50 remark. if glavine is 50 that he wants to play for the mets … that means he is only 50 that he wants to play for the braves. this journalist would rather see a kid who is 120 for playing here rather than tired, old tom glavine. let him be the toast of ny - slightly stale, somehat soggy. glavine is clever like a borass (famous hog known to be clever in the woods) and is merely trying to hold up the mets for the best deal. now, the ugly blogger has done everything else to jimmy smith - today, a racial slur. ip addresses can be blocked, right? does he really have anything to offer that would allow him to stay? oh, the insensitivity! oh, the lack of pc! oh, say can you see …

By Steve

November 17, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

Dave,with all the attention Danys Baez seems to be getting, do you think he will sign early so we could get a draft pick for him?

By Shaun

November 17, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

Certainly a great season by Carlton. How about Pedro in 2000. A 1.74 ERA in a league with a 4.97 ERA.

By Lew

November 17, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

Rammer-We discussed Carlton’s performance in the past year. I agree that his 27 win season was possibly the best season ever, considering how bad that team was. Y’all there is a great article (with video) on the Baseball Analysts site, dealing with the difference between the Oakland Tim Hudson and the Atlanta Tim Hudson. I think you would find it interesting. Esteemed Journalist Jimmy Seal Daddy-On the humidor situation. In Denver, they were subjecting the baseballs to 40% humidity. It seems to me that would be a VERY dry day in Atlanta, Texas or St.Louis. How does that account for the Launching Pad?

By journalist jimmy smith

November 17, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

lew, sandy koufax could fill the stadium when he came to town. of course, one of the greatest games in braves history was billy hitchcok’s first when koufax and lemaster battled well into the night. it was a 1-1 tie, with a rain delay. eddie mathews hit one out in the bottom of the ninth and the braves won. koufax was great - but somehow lemaster saved his best game for the times they were opposing pitchers.

By Lew

November 17, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

Bulldog Fans should be happy. Caleb King, the #1 rated running back in the nation, just chose UGA. Best thing that’s happened this year to the Dawgs. Woof Woof.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 17, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

now, baseball is investigating how the balls are stored at each stadium.

this journalist reminds lew that in the launching pad days baseballs were not placed in humidors. journalist thinks the ball should be played as it comes out of the box.

not everyone agrees.

“Atlanta Braves general manager John Schuerholz said he doesn’t understand concerns raised about the Rockies’ humidor, which stores baseballs in 50 percent humidity and 70 degree temperature, settings provided by Rawlings.”

“I’d rather see us do something like that to bring an abnormal situation into normalcy than to ignore what is going on,” he said. “It benefits everybody to go into the stadium and feel that the game will be fairly normal.”

“The general managers also were instructed to provide Major League Baseball with a detailed explanation of how baseballs are stored in their home parks, the first step in what could lead to the development of “environmental chambers” in ballparks other than Coors Field.”

your next stop, the twilight zone …

By rammerjammer

November 17, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

JJS, you can’t mention Lemaster without props for Tony Cloninger.

Remember (of course you do) the debut of the Atlanta Braves, April 12, 1966?

The game goes 13 innings, and Cloninger goes the route in the 3-2 loss.

No telling how many pitches he threw that night, but some say he was never the same after that game.

By geauxbraves2000

November 17, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

Again, I see Glavine is 50/50. Again I ask, does the Braves’ brass have any interest at all about bringing him back? It’s like he’s saying he has a choice between the two. Does he? Are the Braves interested? How are his toes?

Geaux Braves!!

By 2007 Mets

November 17, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

I agree with Grinch’s post of 10:12 about Glavine. If I were the GM I’d give him a pat on the back and say nice knowing you. I’d set my sights on Zito and work out a trade for another #1 or #2 pitcher. The playoffs showed we have some young talent that’ll fill in fine at the back end of the rotation.

By David O'Brien

November 17, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

GeauxBraves, the Braves officials will not (and say they cannot) comment on Glavine until Mets officially decline his option and make him a free agent. He’s technically still under their control until the Mets do something with that option (they’ll decline it) by the Monday night (midnight) deadline.

By David O'Brien

November 17, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

By the way, I’ll get a new blog up soon. Been making some calls before I write it. Also, wanted to see if we could crash the entire AJC blogosphere by surpassing 700 posts on one original blog. Keep ‘em coming dammit!

By David O'Brien

November 17, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

Do you think when Tom Glavine goes to buy a car, the negotiations probably take 2-3 days and several trips back and forth between dealerships? I’m getting the impression he’s not much of an impulse shopper….

By Shaun

November 17, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Seems like a Marcus Giles to San Diego trade is dying. Is it? Any chance we see any big trades this weekend?

By Carlos Amato

November 17, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I’m with you on the beer subject. Once you taste a fine German Wheat Beer (or Weiss Bier, as they call it) or a Belgian Ale, you will never drink a Budwater again…

By Patrick

November 17, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

DOB

What are you hearing about the Hudson to Texas rumors??? I heard they are dangling Otsuka. I’d trade him in a second, that’d free up the cash to sign Andruw back

Get’er done JS!!!

By MadduxRules

November 17, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

Comment from a Chicago paper:

“But Williams always likes to aim high, and sources say the Sox have strong interest in Atlanta Braves center fielder Andruw Jones, who might be willing to waive his no-trade protection to play for Ozzie Guillen. Jones will be a free agent next season, but his agent is Sox nemesis Scott Boras, so that could be a deal-breaker.”

Interesting, eh?

By geauxbraves2000

November 17, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

I understand DOB, thank you. Do you have any impressions that the Braves do want him back? He may fill seats for a chance of his 300th win, but is that a good enough reason to sign him?

It would’ve been nice if he never left in the first place, but JS sure has a knack of knowing when to let go.

I personally think he will stay in NY and that is fine with me. I know the Mets need him with Pedro going down.

Am I post #700?

Geaux Braves!!

By mariner

November 17, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

If I’m the Mets I go ahead and excercise Glavine’s option. Especially if they don’t have Zito signed already. Minaya admitted to bidding 39-40 mil for the Matzusaka posting. If he’s got that kind of dough to spend and missed, I can’t really see him risking losing Glavine. Plus, it must be tiresome for everyone to hear the updates on Glavine’s decision making process. If I’m Minaya, I take the decision out of his hands, mostly for baseball reasons, but a little bit just to bring the issue to a close. And focus on zito or Schmidt or whomever.

By ernesto

November 17, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

SJA/Stinky/Faux JJS, that was over the line my friend…waaaay over the line. Take your meds!

By Lew

November 17, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

Esteemed Journalist Seal Daddy-My point on the humidor situation was if the higher humidity slows the ball down in Colorado and the humidity on a daily basis in Atlanta is more than they are artificially modifying it for the Rockies, how can you hit so many HR’s in high humidity in Atlanta (at the Launching Pad)and in Texas? Also, how would you modify it in each city to bring all clubs into a standard? I don’t think it can be done, but maybe Shaun knows a formula that can be used.

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 17, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

i’ve been on the fence about glavine, mulling over where i stand and what i hope as far as where he plays next year. i don’t particularly like how he’s going about this whole process because if he goes back to the mets, that’s going to disappoint a lot of braves fans — myself included — after building us up with (what would turn out to be) false hopes. but i know that that’s just how he has to do things, so that’s how it is.

ever since he went to the mets, i’ve booed him at the games i’ve gone to, talked about how much i hate him for going there…but now that he might be coming back, i’m hoping that he does. i feel like randy quaid’s character in “major league” — “you stink wild thing, i loathe you!” but when he sees that he’s back toward the end of major league 2, he’s immediately excited and the biggest fan.

By michael

November 17, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

Glavine back in Atlanta would be awesome! He’s been winning more for the last season and a half. He’d be great for Chuck James. The Braves wouldn’t have to face him. (Let’s be honest, the Braves haven’t looked too good against him the last few times.) Plus, he stays healthy and eats up innings. And finally, he can bunt!!! Why is that a lost art for Atlanta pitchers these days? Smoltz can still get it done…but it’s painful watching any of the others try. GLAVINE COME HOME!!!

By mariner

November 17, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see the Mets exercise the option for Glavine and then trade him to Braves for Hudson. Reunite Hudson with Rick Peterson and let Glavine win 300 with the Braves. I’m down on Hudson for sure, but I think it would be a fair trade for both teams.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 17, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Daybed W.,

One of my top 5 funniest movies of all time. For some reason, I get chills every time I hear Uecker say “THE INDIANS WIN IT!!! THE INDIANS WIN IT!!! OH MY GOD THE INDIANS WIN IT!!!!” Guess it kind of reminds me of Skip Caray when Sid slides into home in ‘92.

Lew

I agree on trying to standardize the humidity effect in baseball. Humidity is only one factor that contributes to how a ball travels. What about wind direction, temperature, and park dimensions? These are things that can’t be taken into account. Why bother with the humidity? Could you imagine playing 162 games in parks with the exact same dimensions, stagnant wind, 72 degrees. It would be dome stadium after dome stadium after dome stadium…..Its all part of the game. Besides, I don’t even think a Shaun-formula could tame the wind in Wrigley or the Old Candlestick Park.

By Matthew

November 17, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly:

What’s your prediction for Saturday, both for the FB and BB Hogs?

Are the GM meetings over now? Are we going to have to endure vicious rumors until the winter meetings?

WPS

By David O'Brien

November 17, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

OK, now that the posts are doing the inevitable end-of-week tailing off, I’d like to take this time to let you all know a new blog will be posted within 30 minutes. I know, you’re waiting with baited breath and bells on (actually, I realize most of you are just waiting to get the hell out of the office and tackle Atlanta’s extended Friday rush-hour gauntlet of a drive home.)

Anyway, it’s coming. I promise. Just got off phone with couple people and have some new Glavine info.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 17, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

oh, the humanity! journalist just read a news report that lonnie smith once contemplated killing john schuerlolz. and now, rammerjammer … yes, this journalist remembers that first game with cloninger on the mound - torre hit two home runs. cloninger’s arm turned to souse meat after that. now, humidors … “at the same temperature, air with a higher dewpoint will be less dense, at a higher humidity, baseballs will travel a little further, all else being equal. when air warms, it expands. this warming and expansion lowers the density of the air. this produces longer flight distances, all else being basically equal.” carolina lady taught us this many weeks ago - got this journalist in trouble talking kity hawk with her. the answer to this question is bubble boy. baseball must be played in a bubble. baseballs should be used right out of the box - just like crackerjacks.

By Lew

November 17, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly-Dude, I agree with you. I think the whole thing should never have been started in Colorado. I don’t think that there is any way possible to standardize it. If you can’t standardize it, then no one should use humidifiers. Denver’s atmospherics are what they are. Just like Wrigley’s, just like the Green Monster, just like that launching pad in Philly and that stupid hill and short porch in Houston. Just let it alone and teach pitchers to pitch. Learning to keep the ball down would probably help.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 17, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Matthew,

Don’t know much about the BB Hogs yet, so I’ll hold off on that prediction. In fact I don’t even know who they’re playing.

Football: AR— 38 Mrs. St.—17

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 17, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I found a Lucero connection on a hunting forum yesterday. I’m gonna trade him a DBT complilation I made for a copy of a Lucero album and a c.d. to be named later. He said he likes their older stuff, “Tennessee” and “That much farther West.” If the deal goes through, I’ll give you a report on the albums.