AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > November > 04 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USSalty shuts ‘er down, Escobar goes en fuego
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
If the Braves are looking to trade Yunel Escobar, the offers could increase with the Cuban shortstop prospect’s sensational performance in the Arizona Fall League, where he leads the league with a .444 average, including seven hits and a grand slam in two games Thursday and Friday. Yowza.
Catching prospect Jarrod Saltalamacchia dominated the AFL with three homers and 12 RBIs in his first six games, but he was shut down and sent home to Florida after straining a groin muscle and then injuring a hamstring before he could get back in the Peoria Javelinas lineup.
The Braves say they’re just being cautious in resting “Salty? the remainder of the fall to get him ready for spring training. Since we’re not there in Arizona and reports out of there are so sketchy, we’ll take their word for it.
Salty hit .565 (13-for-23) with three bombs, 12 steaks (that’s RBIs; I want to use a lot of annoying baseball lingo this winter to spice things up), five walks, only two strikeouts and a 1.655 OPS in his six games before injury, a complete reversal of the switch-hitter’s disappointing season at Double-A Mississippi (.230, 9 HRs, 39 RBIs, .733 OPS, 71 Ks in 313 at-bats, ugh).
But before he left Arizona, he apparently handed off the AFL star baton to Escobar, who has grabbed it and run with it, to say the least.
If the Braves really are actively shopping him _ I don’t know if they are, or are just listening to potential offers; probably the latter _ they might take a step back and reconsider before letting go of this dynamic talent.
After a down year at Double-A (what was it about Jeff Blauser’s ol’ Miss team this year that sucked the stats out of two of Atlanta’s top prospects?), the chattering, swaggering Escobar is rebuilding his top-prospect status out west.
Escobar went 4-for-4 with three RBIs Friday in a Peoria Javelinas win vs. the crosstown rival Peoria Saguaros (when these two clubs get together, you can toss out the records) after going 3-for-5 with a grand slam on his 24th birthday Thursday in a win vs. Mesa.
Escobar is 28-for-63 with only five strikeouts and a 1.049 OPS. Now, it’s not uncommon to put up big numbers in the Fall League, what with the weather, stadiums and sometimes suspect pitching (it’s a league of mainly A-ball and Double-A prospects), but what Escobar is doing must be recognized.
Scouts say he’s “centering? everything he hits, just raking out there. After seeing him last spring training, I can’t say I’m surprised by anything he’s done except by how much he struggled this year at Mississippi (.264, 2 HRs, 7 SBs in 16 attempts, 20 GIDPs, etc), though he did have a solid .361 OBP there.
Anyway, seeing the kid (if we can call a 24-year-old a kid), you can’t help but be impressed. He’s already developed physically, looks capable of hitting a ton of line drives and possibly more homers. He’s full of confidence, as evident by the loud chattering he does almost constantly in the field (he’s cut back on this slightly since he was hitting .313 and entertaining the home fans two summers ago at Rome, partly because the Braves let him know he might want to tone it down as he rose higher in the organization, since opposing teams would take offense, which a few teams did in Double A).
While not as naturally smooth defensively as younger SS prospect Elvis Andrus, Escobar is much closer to being ready for the majors and is a better, maybe far better, offensive force than the smaller, light-hitting Andrus.
Where might Escobar fit? Well, if they don’t trade him, the Braves could groom him for shortstop after Renteria leaves. They could trade Edgar a year from now and insert Escobar, perhaps. Or they could play him some more at 2B and see if he’s got the goods for that position, though he has played only limited amounts at 2B and 3B and doesn’t appear to have the power potential to play the hot corner (more annoying lingo) after Chipper’s done.
Or, they could throw him into a trade and all our talk about him will have been rendered moot, much as it was with Wilson Betemit….
OK, on to couple other matters: Not surprisingly, it really does look like Glavine is going to stay with the Mets, for two years and more than $20 mill. Braves wouldn’t even consider competing with that; as we’ve said all along, Glavine would have to take a large discount if he really wanted to pitch at home for the Braves and win his 300th with a tomahawk across his chest….
Nothing new to report yet on Andruw, other than he’s hitting homers in Japan and winning awards in the U.S. and will need a Brinks Truck instead of a home safe after his next contract.
Read this quote that Bruce Bochy, who’s managing the major league team in Japan, gave to MLB.com’s Ian Browne about Andruw, and tell me if you can’t see San Francisco in a bidding war with the Angels and others for Andruw:
“He just has a lot of fun playing the game,” Bochy said. “You get to see what Bobby Cox gets to see on a daily basis. We’re talking about the best center fielder in the game. They are remarkable plays he can make and he did tonight. He saved us. Plus, you’re looking at a guy who does a lot of damage with the bat. He’s one of the best players in the game. For him to make this trip, it’s an honor for me to have him on my club and manage him.?
The Brinks truck won’t fit in Andruw’s massive garage that’s already filled with European sports cars, but I’m sure he can add on….
Oh, speaking of Arizona Fall League and Braves youngsters, a couple of their pitchers haven’t fare so well out west: Joey Devine 3 games, 4 innings, 3 runs, 5 walks (yikes), 2 strikeouts. And Anthony Lerew, 0-2 with 5.40 ERA in seven relief appearances, with 13 hits, 6 runs, 6 walks, 5 K in 10 innings (to me, something just seems to be missing there, with Lerew. Too erratic.)…
And one more thing about Gold Glove outfielders, welcome back, New York Mets. Carlos Beltran won a Gold Glove, the first Mets OF to win one since Tommy Agee in … 1970!…
My last thoughts and lasting impressions from covering the NLCS and World Series:
The impossibly orange-blonde spectacle that is Donald Trump’s hair, made even more conspicuous by the black overcoat he wore over his dark suit (always a suit) at the NLCS games at Shea. And the impossibly stunning young blonde on his arm. Oh, and “I’m superior? look he gave the merely wealthy who tapped him on the shoulder to shake his hand in his seats behind home plate….
At one of the NLCS games at Shea, when the crowd sang en masse to to Bruce Springsteen’s “Born to Run” before the Mets batted in bottom of third inning, after Juan Encarnacion had grounded into a broken-bat double play to end the top of the third with two on….
Again, at Shea, when the crowd, 56,000-strong, went right into the “Jo-say …. Jo-say, Jo-say, Jo-say? soccer-style sing-along as he led off an inning….
The white-towel waving crowd in Detroit. Impressive crowd respone in freezing drizzle….
Oh, and the girl behind the counter cranking Rick James’ “Mary Jane” on the store speakers at the Motown Records souvenir store in the Detroit airport … at 5 a.m.! I loved it _ the song, the store, the girl … so much so that I bought a Motown records T-shirt from her….
The receipt I just put in my expense report from Starbucks in St. Louis airport, with the time stamp: 4:59 a.m. I was first in line when they opened, and asked if they’d hook me up to a espresso IV. They couldn’t do it….
The price of a one-way ticket from St. louis to Atlanta when purchased two days before _ check it yourselves. That’s what happens when the AL team can’t even extend the series to six games and get it back to Detroit….
Speaking of Detroit, the Detroit Cobras are playing at Smith’s Olde Bar tonight, and they’re well worth the price of admission. Great band that combines garage-rock with R&B for a unique, greasy-good sound. I’m there…
As great as the My Morning Jacket live double-CD is, the Sadies’ live double-CD is probably even better. The guest performers include Neko Case, Kelly Hogan (those two again … ahh), Jon Spencer, Steve Albini, Garth Hudson, Blue Rodeo, etc….
And finally, I just had to include this story from the Onion, which is certainly funnier than anything I could write about the Series:
CARDINALS APOLOGIZE FOR WINNING WORLD SERIES
ST. LOUIS — Calling Friday night’s victory on baseball’s grandest stage “a terrible mistake,” members of the St. Louis Cardinals issued a formal apology for making the playoffs, winning the World Series, and depriving baseball fans everywhere of a season featuring the kind of heartwarming, storybook ending to which they have grown accustomed in recent years.
“I’m still struggling to understand how this could have happened,” said a sober Tony La Russa during a press conference following Game 5. “It seemed all but certain coming into this series that we were going to be a part of something truly special, that we would easily put the finishing touches on a magical season that inspired millions of fans around the country, but instead we somehow ended up winning.”
“It’s disappointing, to say the least,” La Russa added. “We were rooting for the Detroit Tigers just like everyone else.”
According to Cardinals players, they “tried absolutely everything” in their pursuit to earn the Tigers their first world championship since 1984, including eliminating the far more dangerous New York Mets in the NLCS, entering the series completely unrested after a grueling seven-game series, starting a rookie pitcher with five career wins in Game 1 in Detroit, and postponing Game 4 due to rain in the hopes that an off day would swing the momentum back in the Tigers’ favor.
“I don’t know what we could’ve done differently,” second-baseman Ronnie Belliard said. “We gave the Tigers every opportunity to win ballgames, but when their pitchers keep making errors on simple ground balls, what are we supposed to do, pretend we forgot the rules and start running to third base?”
Desperate for a Tigers win in Game 2, the Cardinals chose to overlook the fact that starter Kenny Rogers was pitching with the aid of a foreign substance on his left hand.
“Of course we all knew it was pine tar, but it seemed like they were finally finding their rhythm… We certainly didn’t want to shake their confidence, so we decided to just let it go,” La Russa said. “Frankly, if the umpires didn’t bring it up, we probably would’ve let him pitch with it the whole game.”
After the final out of the World Series was recorded, the stunned Cardinals retreated to their dugout and watched with disappointed, glazed-over expressions as the Detroit Tigers—the feel-good team of the season whom everyone expected to win it all—packed up their equipment in the dugout across the diamond.
According to Albert Pujols, some teammates took the World Series victory harder than others.
“For a lot of young guys like [Anthony] Reyes and [Yadier] Molina, this was their first chance to see an exciting, inspirational, and truly deserving team win a championship,” Pujols said. “Even though the outcome of this series has definitely left a bad taste in my mouth, I can handle it, because I was there in 2004 when we were able to see Red Sox beat us in the World Series. Man, what an incredible feeling that was… Just watching those guys celebrate, I really felt like I was seeing history unfold before my eyes. It was definitely my greatest baseball moment.”
“I hope we have the chance to see something like that again next year,” Pujols added.
Reporters and sportswriters around the nation were critical of many of La Russa’s successful managerial decisions, second-guessing such effective moves as leaving staff ace Chris Carpenter in for more than five innings in Game 3, and failing to bench third-baseman Scott Rolen, who batted a team-high .421 in the series. La Russa, however, said that things would be different next year.
“I think I speak for my players, the front office, the coaching staff, and every fan in St. Louis when I say that all season long, we had just one goal: bringing a championship to the great city of Detroit,” La Russa said. “And even though we failed this time around, we will be committed to achieving similar goals next season.”
In the somber clubhouse following the victory, Cardinals centerfielder Jim Edmonds admitted that “the wrong team won,” but said that the outcome of the 2006 World Series is “just something we’re unfortunately going to have to live with.”
“Nobody thought we could do this, nobody thought we could stop this powerhouse team that beat the odds to go from worst to first and rolled through the playoffs looking like they were invincible,” Edmonds said. “And we thought we had taken every possible step to prove them right.”
“We shocked the world,” Edmonds added. “We’re sorry.?
Comments
By GeorgetownKid
November 4, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
Great post Mr. O’Brien! Thank you so much.
I am really looking forward to watching what the Braves do this offseason. There are so many different potential outcomes.
By Stinky
November 4, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
Man. Georgia lost and now Drama Queen DOB is back. When it rains, it pours.
By nathan
November 4, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this
DOB
good to have you “back”
I’ve been kinda eratic (much like Lerew), on my appearances on the blogs. I guess football season only allows me to “think” about baseball, once every 3 or 4 days. LOL!
Hey, on Guy’s blog the other day (more like the last 4 or 5 days), we all have been discussing/arguing about possible Braves transactions. Maybe you can give some insight or just your personal opinion/guess to “fuel the fire” for us.
1) Do you think that Gregor Blanco has ANY shot at making the team for the LF/leadoff spot next spring, based on what he did at Mississippi & Richmond? Or will the braves try to find a LF/leadoff hitter (unless JS has other plans for leadoff from another position) via trades or free agents, like Steve Finley? Not that I endorse a move for Finley, but that seems like the “type” of veteran experience that Bobby/JS would go after if the price was right.
2) Is there any chance of the Braves keeping Marcus at 2B and trading Renteria? Since they seem to have a WHOLE BUNCH of SS prospects that may or may not be ready to play next season. I have expressed repeatedly that my opinion is that of one who has ZERO problem with an all catch-no hit SS (or any position - so long as it’s not all positions that fall into this category), if we truely are going “back” to our old philosophy of pitching and defense.
3) Do you think JS will still “listen” to offers for Andruw, even though Boras and Andruw have said that he’s STAYING? IMO, JS should still try to move him if it is obvious that he won’t resign after 2007.
4) You never did explain WHY Blauser was let go. (I think it was about 3 weeks ago when I first asked) But judging by your comment about Escobar’s season under Blauser, there must be “some” rumor/explaination out there, that you’ve heard.
I’m sure I have more questions, but I gotta save somthing for later, right?
After all, by my calculations there is ONLY about 110 or so days before pitchers and catchers report. Less than that before “camp Roger” opens up. So due to time restraints. (LOL!) I’ll save some of them for another day.
Thanx man! (Again, good to have you back on the blogs)
By Troy
November 4, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this
Renteria to Houston for Adam Everett and Chad Qualls, Thoughts?
By Alan
November 4, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
David, great news about Escobar and Salty; however, not so good about Devine and Lerew. I read “hot stove” rumors on mlb.com yesterday (including the Mets and the Phillies both expressing interest in Mike Mussina, and a whole host of teams courting Gary Matthews, Jr.). It was all interesting stuff, about nearly every team, but not the Braves. Anything brewing regarding Marcus and/or Horacio? Or anybody else? It’s great reading your reports - they’ll make the offseason a bit more bearable. Music-wise, what is your opinion of Al Green? I live in northeast Pennsylvania, and I had the privilege of seeing and hearing the “Reverend” in concert Thursday night. Absolutely terrific. He sounded just like he did 34 years ago when “Let’s Stay Together” came out. Great band (10 or so plus 2 backup female singers), too. Thanks again for your posts; keep ‘em coming.
By brian
November 4, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
unless Escobar or Salty lands the Braves top young, major league ready pitching talent, or a young proven position player (like Carl Crawford - in a package) the Braves should not trade 2 top young position prospects, especially on the Braves budget
Agree with above- welcome back DOB - the blogs aren’t the same without you!
By Shoeless
November 4, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this
David,
Slow up on the cliches; we just got that annoying cliche machine Chip Carey turned off for the winter. Your work is good enough that you don’t need to fall into the same trap he does. He needs them to make his work sound better than it is. His Dad has never needed rely on them.
By Lew
November 4, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this
DOB-Glad you survived the Series. You should have been at the record store with me today. I just helped grow the economy considerably. Derek Trucks, the new Molly Hatchett, a new Cactus (the first in 30 yrs.-should be good.), North Mississsippi All Stars and Girl School live on King Biscuit, Warren Haynes and the Cult’s Love cd. There was a report on XM Home Plate that Pedor Martinez is considering retirement instead of going through rehab. As good as the Mets are, their pitching is in total disarray.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this
Lew, let me know what you think of Derek Trucks. I love that CD, by far his best in my opinion. And I really like that NM All Stars, too. And the Cult “Love” _ that’s great stuff. Don’t have the others. Didn’t even know Molly Hatchett was still together.
I was just at Tower, where everything’s slashed because they’re going out of biz. Got that three-CD Willie Nelson thing of his three early albums out of print, for 30 percent off. And got The Damned’s two-CD greatest “hits” package. And Townes Van Zant Live at McCabe’s.
Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks _ now there’s two of the guitar gods of today.
By MEB
November 4, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this
DOB… This year’s Baseball Winter Meetings are in Orlando, FL, Monday, December 4 - Thursday, December 7.
So, do you get to go? By the way, welcome back!
By The Grinch
November 4, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this
Matthew and Hillbilly, y’all just got the benefit of an absolutely atrocious offensive pass interference call on SC; it should be 14-10 instead of 14-6. I’m pulling for Arkansas, but I still like it fair. That was awful. Still a good game, though. Your strengths play to their weaknesses.
By GM Wannabe
November 4, 2006 09:07 PM | Link to this
Alot of people are wanting to aquire Wes Helms to back up the corner and pinch hit, I do think this would not be a bad signing but I think that Aaron Boone would be better because he can also play 2B. Another such player that would be nice to have is Ty Wiggington from Tampa. Maybe JS can Acquire him when he steals Carl Crawford from them.
By GM Wannabe
November 4, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this
I know getting Carl Crawford is probaly not very realistic, but another left fielder I think JS could get is David DeJesus from KC. It would probaly cost HoRam.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 4, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this
oh, these biscuits … still in the oven. journalist must have done something wrong. now, harmony on the blog … is elusive. dob should take comfort that this journalist gets as much or more grief than the esteemed one himself - and this journalist has no wurlitzer. this is a funny season in the sec and acc with teams winning that do not usually win and teams that usually win getting embarrassed. oh, the humanity! at least it is a diversion until closer to spring training. and what of this whistling infielder escobar? and can tom glavine whistle now with missing teeth? what would a tom glavine whistle sound like? phhfff. we must ask tom glavine to comment: “wooks wike i can’t whistwe wike i couwd befowe.” now, a new blog on a saturday - very considerate of dob. one more transition (almost like scribe himself)… this “big guy” - maybe he can get work in the braves bullpen. has the figure for it. oh, the humanity!
By Lew
November 4, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
DOB-I think the Derek Trucks is an older cd. I found a used copy. I saw him in St.Pete when he was 12. He jammed with the Toler Bros. and some other blues people from Central Fla. It was pretty cool. I was working on the side for a radio station doing Rock and Roll portraits and got to party with Dan and Frank, not only on that occasion, but several others. Derek was very limited with his chops at that time (I mean he WAS 12), but had everything he played down real tight.He was using one of Duane Allman’s slides.I think they jammed on Stormy MOnday or something like that.Wannabe-Anyone we could get for Horacio would be good. He’s just too injury prone and inconsisitent for the $4+mil he will be due. He needs to go so the salary could be used for more consistent pitching. We will not be getting Crawford. Just give up on the idea. I saw Wigginton play this year against the Red Sox. He just stood there and watched a ball go right past him into right field. Giles might not have caught the ball, but his uniform would have been dirty from the effort. Wigginton made NO effort. I would not like to see him on the Braves.
By Lew
November 4, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this
Esteemed Journalist-No Wurlitzer, but you do have a stunning portrait of the Hartebeest.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 4, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this
and a handsome hartebeest indeed!
By journalist jimmy smith
November 4, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this
journalist jimmy smith thinks DOB is a very attractive man. journalist hopes DOB will one day allow jimmy to share the same bed. Oh the humanity!
By Bravo Nam
November 5, 2006 01:02 AM | Link to this
DOB Sincerely great to have you back! Guy and co. who take over from you from time to time not only don’t interact with the bloggers, but also post unbelievably boring blogs- it’s great to read the latest!
journalist jimmy smith Don’t worry. I know that was someone pretending to be you in your latest post. Bloody imposter.
DOB and anyone else Ever since the topic of trading Escobar has been raised, there has been no suggestion of the Braves trading Andrus instead. Until this blog. I’m aware that Escobar is a chatterbox and needs to improve defensively, but if he is a significant upgrade over Andrus offensively and is closer to being ready, why wouldn’t the Braves trade Andrus instead of Escobar?
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 02:09 AM | Link to this
Nam, it’s only because there’s just going to be such limited interest in a guy as young as Andrus, who’s only 18 years old (born in Aug. 1988; how old does that make you feel?). Teams aren’t looking for players like that who are still at least two years away from being ready for the majors, unless they get them included in a package that includes other talented players or older prospects. Escobar, on the other hand, could be ready as soon as next summer if a team really wasn’t contending for anything and had an opening.
Detroit Cobras rocked the house tonight, as did the very demented band before them, King Kahn and the BBQ Show. So strange I wouldn’t even know how to describe them.
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 02:11 AM | Link to this
MEB, I’ll be there, though I wouldn’t use “get to go” to describe another four days in the Evil Empire (meetings are at Disney’s Swan hotel. Wait … ok, for a moment I thought I was going to be sick)
By TD
November 5, 2006 07:57 AM | Link to this
Derek Trucks and his wife, Susan Tedeschi, are currently touring, you guys should check them out. I just missed them because I having some kinda flu like thing here in Baltimore and didn’t want to expose my lungs to a bunch of 2nd hand smoke. I saw Susan several years ago and she is a great blues guituarist in her own right. I ain’t getting my hopes up about anything the Braves do until TM completes the sell to Liberty
By Lone Wolf
November 5, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this
Maybe its just me but it seems that the Braves number one priority is pitching. The offense this past season was adequate and everybody knows that pitching and defense wins championships. This Escobar kid is a SS and if he can play SS he can certainly play 2B. If Giles is traded it seems it would be for either a lefthanded reliever or a fifth starter. The Braves obviously have money to spend this winter and I’m betting it will be on another starter.
By Lew
November 5, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this
DOB-The Derek Trucks I got was a couple of years old-“Joyful Noise”. I haven’t listened to it yet. The new Cactus is real good. It’s three of the four original memebers (Rusty Day was killed some years ago). It is very well recorded and engineered. It is hard rock and hard blues. Definitely recommended for all the rockers and lovers of blues-driven rock out there in DOB blogland.Lone Wolf-I have a feeling you may well be right. In Chop Talk this month, JS again talks about how he will add pitching, both starting and in the pen. He also describes the Braves’ offense as “not taking a back seat to anybody”. I think maybe Prado will be the guy, though at second.
By Tommy Franchise
November 5, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this
Here’s a thought for you, DOB:
Let’s watch the Angels’ fascination with Gary Matthews, Jr. because if they sign him, I believe Chone Figgins would become expendable.
Figgins will get you 50+ steals a year, generally has an OBP around .350, gets you some doubles, lots of triples and the occasional dinger, and plays LF.
He could also fill in for Chipper occasionally as well as spell Giles (or whomever our 2B will be).
He’ll be 29 next year and have two years remaining on a contract that sees him making $3.5 million a year.
Assuming Giles stays (which San Diego is interested in), we’d have a lineup of Figgins, Renteria, Chipper, Andruw, LaRoche, McCann, Franceour and Giles. (or switch up the lefties so they’re not back to back)
Talk about one guy balancing a lineup…
By dadgum
November 5, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this
Lew, DOB…..Info on Molly Hatchett. Great band but the current lineup features only one original member (name?). I work with and see on a daily basis, Bruce Crump, the original drummer from Molly Hatchett. Super guy. His new band is Gator Country and features all but one from teh old Hatchett. They play all the Molly Hatchett songs but can’t use the name. Band name that is. Check out the GatorCountryBand.com and YouTube. They just finished up a House Of Blues tour in Vegas and Orlando.
Gator Country just lost their lead guitarist and brought in a dude from the band UFO. Bruce says he is jelling and the band is tight. Sorry but I can’t recall the names, however, the info is on the website. I know this much, Bruce Crump can flat out beat the hell out of some drums. Catch Gator Country when you can however they don’t play the number of dates like Skynyrd or Tucker.
As for the Braves, I think that they will give up some young talent to get a front line starter like Dontrelle Willis. We’ll see. I am not on the blog all that much so I am not up to date on the info being passed around. Real estate is taking up my time but I like to check in now and again. More for the music gossip/truth than anything else. Just wondering was the World Series actually played? I missed it…I think. Go Jackets!!!
By Carroll
November 5, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this
DOB: some yokel on another blog said that he heards rumblings about a trade of AJ and Davies to the Yanks for A-Fraud and Milky Cabrera. I personally think this would be dumb, because we need to go back to the 1991 mentality of pitching, pitching and more pitching….thus I think AJ (who is really our only valuable and viable trade chip) should net us 2-3 stud pitchers.
I think if we have strong pitching, we can get by without the A-Frauds, AJ’s and SHeffs….hell we won with the likes of Lonnie Smith, Mark Lemke, Greg Olson, Raffy Beliard, etc back in the day. What do you think, and have you heard anything like this?
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
Lew, Lone Wolf: It has been, is and will be about rebuilding the pitching staff and getting it back to something close to what it was before the host of journeymen and castoffs who’ve played way-too-prominent roles in the past few years. Schuerholz has made it clear since before the season ended, rebuilding the pitching staff is No. 1 priority. And should be. The offense ranked among the NL’s top 3-4 in virtually every category, and the pitching ranked in the lower half to lower fourth in virtually every category, so why on earth would the biggest moves this offseason be for position players? Simply because Hampton’s coming back and Wickman’s re-signed? No. Not good enough reason. They need another starter and at least 1-2 relievers.
By the way, stay tuned for developments with a certain lefty starter, but not the one in Queens. Not Glav, but a Japanese lefty who’s 27 and has been compared favorably to Ishii (the former Dodger). Not a superstar like the other Japanese pitcher who’s repped by Boras and could get crazy $100 mill or so money, but a solid No. 3-4 type guy, at least.
I’ll have something soon on him.
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
Have heard a couple of A-Rod rumors that make sense _ to Cubs and to Angels _ but haven’t heard anything of A-Rod to Braves, and that one you mentioned makes no sense to me, whatsoever….
By the way, anybody see the the best-defense team selected by a 10-person panel assembled by “The Fielding Bible” author John Dewan and Bill James? They got 10 guys ranging from Baseball Info Solutions video scouts, Kansas City Star columnist Joe Posnanski, Seattle Mariners scout Mat Olkin and ESPN.com baseball columnist Rob Neyer, along with factoring in to some degree results from a poll taken on the fan website Tango on Baseball (tangotiger.net), and selected one player at each position, regardless of league.
Their CF? It was an NL guy, but not Andruw. They picked Carlos Beltran, and said the voting wasn’t even close. Wow. That’s a bit of a head-scratcher, or maybe I’ve just been watching Andruw too much and Beltran not enough to appreciate him. I still am of the belief that Andruw’s better defensively. But hey, to each his own opinion, and I’m outnumbered at least by that particular panel.
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this
Oh, and just heard that Andruw hit a homer in major league stars’ 11-4 win over Japanese stars Sunday in Japan. Howard hit his third in two days for the majors team, which has won all of the first three games of the five-game series.
Andruw hit two in a warmup game against the Japanese on Thursday, the day before the official five-game series began (why play a warmup game before exhibition games, or why not call it part of the exhibition series, these are questions I’m not smart enough to answer).
By JasonInMaine
November 5, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Any ideas who the Braves will target to help their staff? Do you think they will trade Hudson? While I agree that they should concentrate on their pitching, I read on ESPN that the White Sox could land Carl Crawford if they traded Brandon McCarthey. Think the Braves will make a play for CC?
Regards, Jason
By The Grinch
November 5, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
Morning, all. DOB, good to see you back. While I agree Curtright’s blogs are neither as interesting or intractive as yours, I do appreciate the man coming up with a new one occasionally just so we can keep talking. I think y’all (other bloggers) are a bit hard on the man.
Scalp ‘em, I hope yesterday alleviated some of the concern you may have had about facing my Dawgs this year. All I have to say is our freshie QB is getting all the lumps he’ll ever need this season and it can only help for the future.
Go Falcons!
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
Just one other thing while I’m talking with myself here and the rest of the world is apparently awaiting the Falcons game (as am I) and/or reading about another UGA defeat:
Peter Gammons has two lists of the top 15 pitchers in wins and ERA over the past three seasons. Two things I noticed: Smoltz is seventh in ERA (3.20), impressive even if in one of those seasons he was a closer. And the wins lists has a recent Brave (Maddux, 44-40, 4.15), but no current Brave.
So I went back and crunched Huddy’s numbers in that span. Folks, do we realize Hudson is just 39-27 with a 4.01 ERA in 599 innings over the past three seasons? After going 49-25 with a 3.02 ERA in 713-1/3 innings over the previous three seasons (2001-03)?
And for those wondering, Hudson averaged 5.33 support runs per nine innings pitched over the past three seasons, UP from 5.24 per nine innings in the 2001-03 seasons.
Maddux, for those curious, pitched 647-2/3 innings over the past three seasons (if you’re like me, you’ve got to be surprised Mad Dog pitched 48 more innings the past three seasons than Hudson). And Maddux received 5.24 support runs per nine innings over the past three seasons (again, Hudson’s run support was 5.33 over that span).
Interpret as you may.
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this
Jason, I think they’ll target the Japanese lefty, for one. Others, I haven’t heard anything worth reporting yet. Just rumors, and the rumor mill is not something I care to stoke unless I feel there’s something tangible or a source I trust has confirmed something to me.
By Paul Hamilton
November 5, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
Dave,
What about Justin Speier for the setup role? Affordable? Also what about the leadoff position? Any thoughts as to what the Braves will do about it? If this gets reposted, sorry about that.
By nathan
November 5, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
DOB, are you ignoring my Gregor Blanco question?
C’mon MAN! Show some love. LOL!
As far as the panel voting Beltran over Andruw, that seems a little ludicris. But having said that, I’m a BIG KC Chiefs fan, so I spend about as much time (more this time of year), on the KC Star’s website and Ponanski is personally my least favorite of all the KC writers. He doesn’t seem like a bad guy, just a littler bit of a homer. What I mean by that is that he is very biased to ANYBODY who has ever wore a uniform in the city of KC. So it doesn’t surprise me that he has Beltran as the best CF. I’m sure if asked, he would say Jermaine Dye is the greatest power hitter in the last decade and Johnny Damon the pinicle of leadoff hitters. LOL!
To each his own, I guess.
Anyhow, the only reason I’m curious about Blanco (not Henry), is that I AM ALWAYS FOR BRINGING UP THE KIDS. Can’t be too young IMO. That 1991 team was kinda young, wasn’t it? Haven’t seen that kinda fire around here until the last couple of years with all the youth around. Keep it coming I say.
Just wanna know what Bobby thinks of him, if he’s seen enough of him to have an opinion. I suppose what’s more important, is if JS thinks enough of hime to resist making a move for another OF.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 5, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
japanese left-hander tomu glavshigi. who on this braves staff will communicate with glavshigi? roger mcdowell? no way. bobby dews is gone. here we lose bobby dews just when we need a japanese interpreter. that leaves it up to bullpen coach eddie perez. does eddie speak japanese? or maybe wicky could handle communications. “here hold this chaw … ” now, how will wicky react to a pre-game feast of rice and noodles instead of ribs and sauce? much to be considered.
By nathan
November 5, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
DOB….
Are you a football fan?
Or don’t you care?
By journalist jimmy smith
November 5, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
yes, there is much to be considered … what of the toe health of this team going into the spring? there are some important toe issues that must be addressed. (1) chipper’s toes (not sure how many), (2) hudson’s toes (gnarly and nasty according to dob), (3) thomson’s toes (if he is back - remember his toes were pointed wrong last spring), (4) felix pie’s toes (new leadoff hitter will need good toes). the trade for felix pie must come soon before the pie rises in the oven of the arizona desert. now, grinch’s comments about young guy curtright, blog editor … grinch is right. guy curtright is esteemed for creating a fresh blog. ludicris to think anything else. now, carolina lady, these biscuits are not getting big and fluffy. should journalist remove them from the oven?
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Nathan, I’ve never heard from anyone that Gregor Blanco is an option for leadoff or a starting job. Not yet. Yes, he hit .290 with a .403 OBP in AA/AAA last season. But come on, ZERO homers and 28 RBIs? I mean, high on-base percentage and decent power is one thing, but NO power is a bit much of a throwback concept. You’re talking 1970s-era shortstop numbers. That’s just a tough thing to completely eliminate power from one of your starting OF spots in this day and age.
And yes, definitely a football fan. College much more so than NFL, but when Vick’s playing well, Falcons are compelling viewing. And of course a matchup like Colts/Pats draws me in.
But once college hoops starts, I’m a couch potato too many nights. Far and away my favorite sport to watch (not including baseball, which is a different realm for me, since I’m watching 140 games or so a year while working, but I still end up watching almost every inning of Braves games when I’m not working, and postseason games on nights I’m not working)….
Jimmy, I’m thinking Bobby will communicate with the Japanese lefty through creative nicknaming practice and universal “Come on, Kid.”
By Lew
November 5, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this
DOB-Is it Tomo Ohka? My wife just pointed out that his name is compatible to tomahawk. A good fit? Would BC cal him Tommy?
By Lew
November 5, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this
I guess it won’t be Ohka-he’s a RHP.
By Troy
November 5, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
its Kei Igawa a 27 year-old southpaw with the Hanshin Tigers in Japan. He pitched 200 innings this year with a 3.11 ERA and 8.3 K/9, winning 13 games.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 5, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
this is dangerous ground. ishi and iti and uko in the lingo of bobbycox could be tragic for the broadcasts. better to stay with “kid” as dob has suggested. of course, brian jordan was known as “kid” last season - mysteries of the clubhouse. now, Tomo Ohka … lew’s wife is correct that this is most compatible with tomahawk. perhaps when he comes in the game he will perform the chop before he pitches. tomo ohka is much preferred to pitchi choka - relief pitcher from the swallows.
By Troy
November 5, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
Justin Speier definitely needs to be on the Braves. Scott Willamson a possibilty?
By Troy
November 5, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal reported that apparently The Padres may be the desired destination for Marcus Giles, he would be moved to 3rd base, and be reunited with his brother Brian. The Braves would probably want Scott Linebrink in return, who they pursued last summer when they were dangling Wilson Betemit.
Here’s the link-
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6139030
By journalist jimmy smith
November 5, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
is it japanese ballplayer wes obermueller?
By Carroll
November 5, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this
That trade idea for Gilly sounds great! Here’s another possibility. I know it’s practically heresy to talk about trading within the division, especially to a bitter divisional rival, but the Mets have a gaping hole at 2B. They also have a very promising young pitcher, Heilman, who wants to start, but they want him in the bullpen. We could certainly use him as a starter. Maybe we could even throw in Huddy to be reunited with his old pitching coach in NY (especially since Pedro may retire), and they could throw in one of their relievers as well, or maybe Endy Chavez to play LF and lead off or perhaps even Lastings Milledge? Thoughts?
By Troy
November 5, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this
What about this Marcus Giles and Scott Thorman to the Oakland A’s for OF Mark Kotsay and RP Justin Duchscherer?
By Metropolitan Man
November 5, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
Sound like you are trying to pull a fast 1 Carroll. Giles would not make it in NY and Hudson is your washed up mess, we have our own messes to deal with in the off season. This deal benefits braves and braves only. METS management would need to sell this to us fans and we aint buying! How about H. Ramirez for Chavez……cash or a minor player to even things out.
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this
Troy is correct on the lefty from Japan.
As for Giles to SD, I was told the Padres wouldn’t have room to re-sign him in their budget, so that’d be the drawback in trading for him now. Maybe not, though, if he’d take a discount to play on same team with his brother. I know Giles would love to go there, not that that would influence a trade from Braves’ end since he has no veto power anyway.
By Jeff
November 5, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
Gut feeling, but I think Schuerholz moves Andruw this winter. Yes, Jones has veto power, but I think Schuerholz works with him in moving him to a contender with the ready dollars to sign Andruw to the long term deal he wants. There’s just no upside to keeping a postion player that’s going to command a huge long term contract. And there’s a real upside to Andruw getting the deal he wants now rather than playing out the 2007 season with the Braves.
Hudson…I wish they’d move him, too. I don’t think the guy has the gas to through July as a starter. He might work well as a middle innings reliver but his pay grade is skyhigh. DOB, any chance the Braves may move him?
By Casey
November 5, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Hey,David. Please hold off on the cliches. We just got the all time cliche machine, Chip Carey, to shut off for the winter. Please don’t start where he left off. Your skills are far too good to go the route he did. His Dad is one of the all time best, and Chip’s skills are insufficient to get him out of that shadow, so he reverts to cliches as a means of masking his inadequacies. Please believe me, you don’t need the disguise.
By Paul
November 5, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
Dave, If you had to guess right now will Andruw be in centerfield for the braves next year. Is there any realistic shot of signing him in 2007? If no, would he accept a trade to the Angels or Giants? Who was better in their prime the Pistols or Clash? (I think the Clash) Time to smoke a Cohiba robusto on the porch.
By The Grinch
November 5, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
Well I suspect there will be major coaching changes for the Falcons in the off-season. Even with their absurdly tough schedule, there’s no way a team with that kind of talent shouldn’t go 11-5. Beating Pittsburgh and Cincy two weeks in a row and then losing by more than two touchdowns to a 1-6 team the following week just simply isn’t acceptable. I like Jim Mora, but both the offensive and defensive coordinators just aren’t NFL caliber. I’ve never seen less done with more talent, and I’ve watched an awful lot of football.
By Lew
November 5, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this
MetroDude-Do you really want ANOTHER injured pitcher on the Mets? You need someone (or two or three someones) better than Horacio if you think you will repeat. Besides, you don’t trade within your own division. However, can Endy lead off and how much does he make? Paul-Andruw is already signed for 07. The signing talk is for 08 and beyond. Jeff-It is more worthwhile for Andruw and Boras to have Andruw put up a career year in Atlanta where he’s more comfortable. He wouldn’t want to play somewhere new and go through the adjustment, which might mitigate his performance and not lead to mega mega bucks. He will play in Atlanta in 07.
By cutty
November 5, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this
Does anyone know where Adam LaRoche finished in the Golden Glove voting?
By TheWyzyrd
November 5, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, What about the Hanshin Tigers’ lefty Kei Igawa? Is he an option? That way they don’t have to give up a draft choice or a player. How about Alfred Bello? I hear he’s been “movin’ around mysteriously”? TheWyzyrd as in Skynyrd
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this
Wyzyrd, Igawa is the guy. Troy named him earlier and I confirmed. Don’t know anything about the other dude you mentioned.
Paul, Pistols were a phenomena, pioneers in a movement, but they absolutely couldn’t hold a candle to the Clash in any way as musicians, as songwriters, as a freakin’ band, man. Clash was known as “The Only Band That Matters” for a reason. They were, at least for a few years, simply the greatest band in the world, in the opinion of many, including me.
RE: Hudson, no, I can’t see Braves moving him since their priority is strengthening pitching and he’s still very affordable for one more year. They’ve gotta fear trading him and then seeing him revert to his great Oakland form, I’d imagine.
Casey, you and Shoeless seem to have missed the facetiousness or sarcasm with which I used the cliches. Dude, that was the whole point _ they’re lame and they’re used all the time by the broadcasters, etc. Just having some fun. Relax. We’ll not revert to using cliches such as “steaks” for RBIs, don’t worry. All’s well.
By Troy
November 5, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this
Your right Hudson still is pretty afordable, I also think that it would be safe to say that his trade value might be at its lowest right now, so why get something out of your investment hope he can pitch like he is capable and possibly down the road if you do want to see what he could bring in a trade do it then or hang on to him, because at what is it like $14 million a year is really not that bad considering the inflated market for starting pitchers.
By Al
November 5, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this
We need to start keeping our you talent instead making trdae like the St Louis deal which has left us with no future or the Milwaukee deal which was a bust. JS needs to focus on keeping Andruw and build the team around him and the core of young players the Braves have already. Dumps anyone left that can be traded for good young talent. Maybe he can learn from the Marlins especially since the payroll will not allow him to compete in the free agent market.
By Troy
November 5, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this
Let’s be happy that we aren’t having to deal with Russ Ortiz, Carl Pavano, or Matt Clement
By Stinky
November 5, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this
Grinch, You’re right about coaching changes for the Dirty Birds. But I say it should start at the top. Bring me the head of Jim Mora. Niether Mora nor Napp ever did anything noteworthy at San Fran. The Niners still had bottles of leftover swagger in the city by the bay when those two were there and they didn’t carry the torch or keep the fire burning.(My contribution to cliche Sunday.) And now, who knows what kind of a year the Birds will have. I’m having visions of last year’s 2-6 2nd half. Why can’t the Falcons show up to play every week?
By KC
November 5, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this
“MetroDude-Do you really want ANOTHER injured pitcher on the Mets? You need someone (or two or three someones) better than Horacio if you think you will repeat.?
Lew, I think you underestimate Horacio’s ability. If he can stay healthy this year, he’ll have a good chance to establish himself as one of the better lefties in the league. However, as you have correctly pointed out “if he can stay healthy? could be a phrase stapled to his name for the rest of his career. It’s still way to early to start making Kerry Wood comparisons, but his body doesn’t appear to be overly reliable.
I agree with you that you can’t bank on him, but I still think you’re selling him short when he is on the mound.
By KC
November 5, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Hudson won’t be going anywhere. I think we need to keep in mind that 2006 was the first and only bad season of Hudson’s career. While his ’04 and ’05 seasons were termed “disappointments?, that’s only because he had turned in CY Young worthy efforts in his previous 2 seasons. The 3.53 and 3.52 ERA’s he turned in for those two seasons respectively still ranked him in the top 10-15% of all major league starters both of those years. Had he had the benefit of even so much as an average bullpen behind him last year, he would have won AT LEAST 17-18 games to go with what was still a very good ERA. It’s also worth noting that he pitched through injury much of the ’04 and ’05 seasons.
Now this year, he certainly did not pitch well and there’s really no satisfactory explanation. He was just out of sinc most of the year. The encouraging news is that what happened to Hudson this season is not without precedent in recent history. Guys like Roger Clemens, John Smoltz, and numerous others have had similar seasons in the primes of their careers, and in each case that I’ve looked at, they bounced right back the following year.
Huddy’s healthy and there’s nothing wrong with his stuff or velocity, he’s embarrassed by his ’06 performance and determined to pitch as he knows he’s capable in ‘07. I think there’s every reason to believe that 2006 was a fluke, and I just wouldn’t bet against him next season.
By KC
November 5, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this
“We need to start keeping our you talent instead making trdae like the St Louis deal which has left us with no future.?
Al, Please tell me you didn’t mean this like it sounds. “Left us without a future????? Are you serious?! The ONLY player we’ve traded away over the last few years that looks to be developing into an excellent player is Adam Wainright. True, JD Drew was only here for one season, but he had a career year here and was one of the best players in baseball that season. He the staple (along with Chipper) in the middle of this lineup. Without both his presence and his production in the middle of the order in ’04… the Braves streak might have ended a couple years earlier than it did.
The Braves have had to do things a little differently over the past few years than they’ve done them in the past. They no longer have the ability to hang with the major market teams in major free agent bidding wars, so they have to rely on trades more now to accomplish their personnel objectives.
As John Shuerholz always says, every player has two values: their value on the field, and their trade value. Before JS makes a trade, he gets the thoughts of all the scouting and coaching staff, and tries to determine which value is greater for each player that might be involved. They get the vast majority right, some they get wrong, and some deals just go in a weird direction that no one could have predicted (Dan Kolb’s meltdown on the heels of two consecutive seasons of being one of the most reliable closers in baseball).
Anyone who thinks JS is a trade-happy cowboy GM ready to offer up any/all of the Braves young talent for the first available rent-a-star, hasn’t been paying attention. The Braves are doing the same thing they’ve always done… win now, while still keeping and developing much of their young talent. The Braves will selectively part with a kid here and there in order to put themselves in a position to win a World Series now, but the Braves will continue to value, guard, and develop much of their young talent just as they have for the last 16 years.
In case you haven’t noticed, there are very few teams in baseball that have as much young talent in their organization (both at the major and minor league levels) as do the Braves.
By keith
November 5, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this
what are we going to do about left field? diaz hit well, but not so great defensively. langerhans will be good eventually but that’s several years off—good defensively though. what should we expect for next year?
By BB
November 5, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this
what was it about Jeff Blauser’s ol’ Miss team this year that sucked the stats out of two of Atlanta’s top prospects?
My guess is Blauser (or E-6 as we used to call him). Good riddance.
By David O'Brien
November 5, 2006 11:23 PM | Link to this
Good points, KC.
By nathan
November 5, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this
DOB
You said to me earlier, reguarding Gregor Blanco:
But come on, ZERO homers and 28 RBIs? I mean, high on-base percentage and decent power is one thing, but NO power is a bit much of a throwback concept.
First of all, let me say thanks for replying. I always enjoy “conversing” with you. Second, I’m gonna “argue” with you. Not to p*ss you off, but to legitimately try and make my point (allegedly). LOL!
I know this comparison might not sit well with you, because you have semi-trashed him in the past, when Braves fans have suggested acquiring him. But didn’t the Marlins win a World Series with a leadoff hitter (Juan Pierre), with LITTLE TO ZERO power in the leadoff position? For the record Pierre has ONLY 12 homeruns in around 4000 MLB at bats. Roughly 2 a year for his career. Not to mention, from what I’ve read, Blanco is a MUCH better outfielder. He can’t possibly have as much of a girl arm as Pierre does, can he?
Didn’t the Braves win in the early 90’s with Belliard and Greg Olson in everyday positions? I think, IMHO, that we have PLENTY of offense (RBI guys) to last us plenty (assuming Andruw is retained). IF JS is going to, as you say, go back to the PITCHING IS MOST IMPORTANT, philosophy, than I would think we would want speed and defense in LF, not Matt Diaz.
Listen, all I know about Blanco is what I’ve read. I haven’t seen him play, not even a highlight. For all I know, he’s a big pink elephant. But it doesn’t take a genius to realize that after looking at his stats, he appears to be a solid player.
Also, I’m not so sure that Furcal had the “power” numbers in the minor league (all I remember reading was his SB totals - **96 in his last minor league season!!!). As far as I’m concerned, it’s Furcal’s emerging power game that has converted/downgraded him from a GREAT leadoff hitter, to fast guy who strikes out and flies out WAY too much. (yes I realize that Blanco had over 100 K’s last year - but he’s cheap and he would allow us to spend $$$$ on pitching, pitching and MORE pitching.)
Please tell me by your “power” comment doesn’t mean you are like the rest of the FREE WORLD (most notably ESPN), and believe that power is the most important tangibles (sp?). I no that that isn’t the case, but I had to ask. LOL!
I TOTALLY agree with you, if offense was our problem, but it WASN’T. I suppose one could (and should) argue that the leadoff spot was a HUGE problem, and putting a rookie in that spot might not be the answer. But Furcal was a rookie once, wasn’t he?
Sorry to ramble (really, I’m not), but I have to take advantage of when you respond to me. Let me have it…….
I’m waiting. LOL! Have a good weekend.
By nathan
November 5, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this
Sorry for all of the spelling and grammar issues in the last post (not even sure I just spelled grammar correctly….twice! LOL.) I guess when I type that much, my brain is way ahead of my fingers.
By nathan
November 5, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this
BTW…..very good points, KC.
JS doesn’t get enough credit for thoroughly thinking his actions through. Yeah, he make the occasional mistake once in a while. I’m not sure that trading Wainright for Drew was a “mistake”. I think he knew that would come back to bite us, but at the time it was NECCESSARY in order for JS to acquire Drew. If anything Drew had too good of a season for Atlanta and priced himself out of their range. LOL! Maybe JS wasn’t “hoping’ for that good of a year, so we could sign him long term!
That was a joke people!
But even if you look at the other “mistakes” (Dye, Schmidt, bla, bla, bla…), those were guys that took FOREVER to develop or stay healthy. Do you really think the fans in Atlanta (you know the ones who DEMAND perfection) would’ve put up with Schmidt’s mediocre season’s for 5 more years until he “took off” in SF? I don’t, he would’ve been booed out of town. Dye? Hell, that guy may never, ever put two more back to back seasons together of staying healthy again. There is NO DENYING the guy can hit, catch and throw. But so can Chipper, if you catch my drift.
Anyhow. just wanted to say (in 4000 words or less), tha I agreed with you about JS. He dropped the ball a little bit with the closer issue last offseason (actually the last two). But you know what? He had (arguably) the BEST CLOSER IN BASEBALL before the Kolb/Reitsma mess, and Smoltz wanted to start. Face facts people. There is only about 3 guys in ALL OF MLB that were as good as Smoltz was (Rivera, Wagner, Gagne) during the time he was a closer. HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU REPLACE THAT? It was destined to fail. How would you like to be the “next” closer in NY when Rivera retires……Good luck with that!
By Tom
November 6, 2006 01:03 AM | Link to this
I like Ryan Freel from the Reds as a LF option. Plus he can fill in at other postions. Would really like to see Carl Crawford become a Brave. Don’t think it will happen.
By TheWyzyrd
November 6, 2006 01:44 AM | Link to this
DOB, Just tapping your Dylan knowledge. Alfred Bello and Arthur Dexter Bradley were key figures in “Hurricane”. It was almost a sports question. TheWyz
By The Grinch
November 6, 2006 01:46 AM | Link to this
Sorry, Y’all; had a very interesting evening. Just getting up to make a sandwich. Stinky, you could be right that Mora needs to go too, but it’s so hard to find a coach that’ll go for it on 4th and 1 these days that I’d be scared of who they’d replace him with. The inability of Knapp to adjust during a game and the f-ing soft zone Donatell plays every down when his d is built on speed and pass-rushing skills just totally slays me. Heads must roll. Night, all.
By Head Coach
November 6, 2006 03:00 AM | Link to this
I have to agree with Nathan. A typical leadoff hitter isn’t relied upon to hit home runs. His job is to get on base , steal second , create havoc and if he can play defense and Blanco can , even better. If Blanco gets the opportunity to play LF and Aybar moves to 2B then you have two guys who are a candidate to leadoff. Giles had 11 dingers and if Aybar starts at 2B I dont see any drop off in the offense for 2007. Some have brought up Yunel Escobar and suggested playing him at 2B but he is still a project at this point with just two minor league seasons under his belt whereas Gregor Blanco has five full minor league seasons of experience. There are a number of free agent pitchers available and JS is going be like a kid in a candy store. Javy Lopez is a free agent and the Braves could pick him up for virtually nothing as a backup catcher. John Thomson has expressed a desire to stay in Atlanta and if he would accept a minor league contract or the major league minimum I say sign him up as depth in the pitching department. I mean …. think about this: Smoltz , Hampton , Hudson , James , Ramirez , Davies and Thomson. Thats seven qualified starters and JS hasn’t as of yet spent one cent on another starting pitcher or made a single trade. Needless to say , I am more than a little optimistic about 2007.
By Metropolitan Man
November 6, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this
November 6, 2006 — Mark Loretta may be one of the Mets’ top choices to play second base. They have shown more interest in him than any other club so far, Loretta’s agent told The Post last night.
Bob Garber, Loretta’s agent, said “there’s been about three phone calls” so far from the Mets. Garber said there is “mutual interest, I would say, for sure.”
According to Garber, playing for a contender is Loretta’s top priority. The 35-year-old Loretta hit .285 with five homers, 59 RBIs and a .345 on-base percentage this past season with the Red Sox. He is a career .299 hitter, with his best year coming in 2004 with the Padres when he hit .335 with 16 homers. Defensively, Loretta only committed four errors this past year, tying for second-best among AL second basemen.
Meanwhile, Jose Valentin’s agent, Dave Elston, said yesterday that he spoke to Mets special assistant Tony Bernazard on Friday and that the parties would speak further.
Elston said he was “cautiously optimistic” about Valentin re-signing with the Mets. He admitted, though, that “half a dozen teams” have inquired about the free agent second baseman.
By Shaun
November 6, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this
Head Coach,
There’s a good chance a leadoff hitter may only leadoff an inning once a game. I agree that speed and creating havoc are nice, but aren’t they just as nice for any other hitter in the lineup?
But, yes, I also agree that there shouldn’t be much drop-off in the offense. The only possible declines are likely to come from Chipper and Andruw but they should be significant (assuming the lineup is virtually the same).
Also, I think if the Braves are unable to trade AJ, they should keep Giles also. I think it’s unlikely someone is going to give up a player who could produce/prevent more runs than Giles can produce/prevent. Might as well play out the season with both and try to win a World Series one more time with them.
By Metropolitan Man
November 6, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this
Just to give you an idea about that E. Chavez scenario, he makes 500, 000. He can lead off and we all know he has defense. I’m not saying he isnt valuble to the METS because he is, but for a starting pitcher like H. Ramirez is a no brainer. You can give up on H. Ramirez, he wont be hurt forever and let him shine in another uniform. R. Peterson can straighten him out in 10 minutes. I know he has been hurt in the past but you guys treat H. Ramirez like Hampton.
By Metropolitan Man
November 6, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this
Hey Kc, what about Derosa???
By Lew
November 6, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this
MetroDude-You mistake what I’m saying about Horacio. When he’s on, he’s as good as it gets. No doubt. However, he has spent major time on the DL two of his four seasons. He has missed 8 of the past 18 baseball months and has had surgery twice, including in the minors. He just can’t stay healthy and is wildly inconsistent when he is available to pitch. You never know if Jeckyll or Hyde will show up, or either on crutches for that matter. He is due to make $4+ in arbitration this season and I think that money, combined with what we save in a Giles deal, would buy someone much more reliable than Horacio. I’ve seen Endy play in Montreal as well as with the Mets and I would make that deal in a heartbeat. It would fill our leadoff spot, give us a dependable everyday left fielder and free up about $3.5 million.
By BB FAN
November 6, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
The Braves should not trade Ramirez unless they are able to sign another left handed pitcher first. And they should not accept Chavez from the Mets for Ramirez. That would be a horrible trade.
The only guys that they should consider for Ramirez would be Freel of the Reds or Figgans of the Angels. There would probably have to be others involved but Ramirez is a good young left handed starter. Once he learns to stay healthy, he could win 15 games a year.
By Shaun
November 6, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this
BB FAN,
Don’t worry. There is no way the Braves give up a decent pitcher to the Mets or any other division rival.
By BB FAN
November 6, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Lew,
Do you think Chavez is that good? I’ve seen him play in Montreal a lot but was only impressed with his speed. His defense is good as well, but he has not been able to draw walks consistantly.
I just think that Ramirez would be too much to give up for only Chavez. I have a feeling his good season in ‘06 was part of the Mets fairy tale season and it may have been a one time deal. Who knows. He may end up being a great player, but I have my doubts.
By Steve
November 6, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this
Dave,
Because of the new Rule 5 draft rules, that means the Braves don’t have to protect Salty, Harrison, or Brandon Jones this year do they? If the new rules are in place for this year, I can’t imagine there will be much of a Rule 5 draft this year.
By Steve
November 6, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
I figure the Braves will trade Giles and let Aybar and Prado battle it out, but I don’t know if the Braves will get many offers for Horacio because of his bump in salary and his injuries. All things said, I think even if we do nothing we could improve by ten wins; how many times do you figure a team has ten pitchers on the DL at once? I’m still hoping for a leadoff hitter (Carl Crawford?) but he’s the only one I’d be willing to trade or sign for and if they don’t get him i’d take my chances with Diaz.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 6, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this
Grinch,
I missed most of the first half of the UA vs. SC game, but I’ll take your word on the interference call. That was a hell of a game; a tale of two halves. I’ll have to admit, I was nervous watching the second half. Their QB was PUNISHING our secondary, but one mistake sealed it. Glad to see McFadden have a good game and get some national recognition. ESPN’s sideline reporter even brought up the H-word.
Hey Matthew, they’re gonna be debating all over the state this week, so let’s hear your opinion: Mitch Mustain or Casey Dick at QB for the next game?
I also heard 3 of Tennessee’s players including their starting running back got arrested this weekend. I think a one-game suspension would fit beautifully into our gameplan…… W-P-S
By KC
November 6, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
Metro Man:
Mark DeRosa was given very ample opportunity to become an every day player in Atlanta, but unfortunately, he just couldn’t capitalize on it. After the Braves parted ways with Vinny Castilla, they kept Chipper in left field and handed the every day 3B job to DeRosa to start the 2004 season. If memory serves me correctly, he was still hitting under the Mendoza line at the all-star break, and they finally had to yank him from the lineup. He finished the year with a .239 batting avg. and a .293 on-base%.
With average foot speed and no power (17 homers in 975 at-bats with Atlanta)… it would have been hard to justify keeping him in the lineup. 2004 was his 4th season in the big leagues (not counting the 98-00 seasons in which he had a combined total of 24 at-bats), so it’s not as though he was a rookie with whom it might be more appropriate to show infinite patience.
Having said that, I doubt the Braves were surprised to see him hit .297 this season. They always believed in he was capable of it… but you can’t wait on a player forever. He made his major league debut in 1998, and has just now established himself as a productive every day player.
By Greg
November 6, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
Is anybody else here spitting mad that two corporate giants negotiating the sell of our team, so that they both can AVOID PAYING TAXES. And in the mean time, our team founders with no budget while the hated Mets have a blank check.
By KC
November 6, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
Steve: I agree with you that the Braves could do nothing an will already be much improved… however, I think that margin would be much greater than 10 wins. The Braves blew close to 30 saves last year. JS will be making some moves to further renovate the bullpen this winter, but it’s already much better than it was at the all-star break in ’06.
Had they succeeded in signing Wickman prior to the ’06 season (as they almost did) would have made a 10 win (or more) difference right there. Of course next year he will be there from day one. Also, consider that guys like McBride and Yates used the experience they gained in ’06 to become solid big-league relievers. Both were showing signs of having come into their own by seasons end. McBride’s ERA from July 16th onward was 1.98, and Yates September ERA (as the Braves set-up man) was 2.70.
So there are 3 quality relievers (Wickman, Yates, McBride) that we didn’t have to start the ’06 season but will have to start next season. We had McBride and Yates on the roster back in April, but they were too green to be counted on early in the ’06 season. It does not appear that will be the case next year. Add Chad Paronto, who finished the year with a very good 3.19 ERA, into the mix along with the healthy returns of Blaine Boyer and John Foster (2 of the Braves’ most reliable relievers in ’05)… and the bullpen is already vastly improved from what we had to start the ’06 season.
To the improved bullpen, we add a healthy Mike Hampton (he’ll have had the FULL 18 month recover time from Tommy John surgery as of March) and… the Braves are FAR better off than they were heading into the ’06 season.
As for Horacio Ramirez, I think most every team in baseball would be interested in HoRam. This guy has a very high ceiling. It’s just a matter of his staying healthy, which obviously is a legitimate concern. Still, with the shortage of quality pitching… there would be no shortage of takers for HoRam’s services. The problem is that his trade value won’t be as high right now as it would certainly be in July if he could stay healthy over the first few months of the season.
By BB FAN
November 6, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this
Greg,
Dipsh!t Selig should step in and veto the sale of a MLB team for tax purposes, but won’t for some reason. He doesn’t seem to care about the good of the game like he claims to. He is all about lining his pockets. The guy should have never been commissioner to begin with. I mean a “former” owner running baseball? What a joke.
Teams should not be allowed to be sold to corporations in the first place. I think the other major sports (NFL, NBA and maybe the NHL) have a rule that doesn’t allow it.
Corporations are usually all about money and don’t care about putting a winning team on the field. I mean obviously the owner has to make money, but corporations want to make as much as possible and will do so at the expense of the team. Selig could force all future team sales to be to individual owners.
By Lew
November 6, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this
BBFan-Just how do learn to stay healthy? No, Horacio is the biggest IF on an iffy staff. We will get more pitching, have no fear. Did you see DOB’s post last night about Kei Igawa?. Horacio is due to make over $4 million in arbitration. He has been injured for two of his four seasons in Atlanta and missed 8 full months of the past 18 baseball months. He has had surgery twice including in the minors. Even when healthy he is not consistent. He either pitches great or is lit up like a Christmas tree. He is LOUSY in relief, so that is not an option. Sorry Dude, he has to go. I have seen Chavez up close and personal when he started out in Montreal (I live in Vermont and used to go to MOntreal a lot). He certainly would not hurt our offense and does have speed. He is very good defensively. Did you see that play he made against Rolen in the NLCS? Personally, I think the Mets would be fools to pass up a deal like that. I’m not saying we should make a trade with the Mets, but if JS were to pull the trigger on this one, I wouldn’t complain. I repeat, Horacio needs to go.
By KC
November 6, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
Greg:
I question MLB’s policy of allowing corporations to own teams. If I’m not mistaken, the NBA and NFL both prohibit corporations from owning franchises.
Here we have a situation where many individual suitors lined up to buy the Braves and would have poured their heart and souls into keeping this franchise healthy, and instead the Braves will be sold/bought for a tax break… nothing more.
I think clearly it is in the best interest of the Braves, and I think major league baseball, for the team to be sold to a private owner. I’m disappointed that MLB will do nothing to prevent a team from changing hands solely for tax purposes.
That said, I think everything will be just fine. As Braves President, Terry McGuirk, has already stated… there will be no payroll slashing, and the Braves have enough young, low-cost talent to compete with all the major market, high payroll teams for at least the next 2-3 years.
Liberty has to keep the team for about that long in order to keep their tax benefits. After that, they might be willing to unload the team, and next time (whenever that is) it seems likely that the team will finally fall back into the hands of a private owner. But in the meantime, I don’t think Braves fans really have anything to worry about.
By Lew
November 6, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this
KC-I agree with you about the bullpen. However, don’t forget about Villarreal and Cormier. Villarreal was excellent by the end of the season, recovering even more from his surgery as the year progressed. I think you can pencil him in as long relief. Cormier also has an upside as a reliever and spot starter. I would also be willing to see Thomson return for a mil a year as a set upguy/spot starter. If we could get Linebrink for Marcus, we have an excellent bullpen. One more starter (Igawa?), let Horacio bring what he brings and we’re good to go.
By KC
November 6, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this
“I repeat, Horacio needs to go.”
LEW: I disagree with that statement 110… scratch that, 115%!
Horacio is a question mark because of his injury proneness. However, it would be a mistake to trade him now. Give him a few months in the rotation. If he’s healthy, he’ll perform and his trade value will rise considerably. If he gets hurt again, that will damage his trade value… but not by much. And frankly if he does get hurt that simply means that Chuck James would slide up into the 4th slot and Davies or Cormier will fill in as the 5th starter. That would not be the end of the world.
His market value just isn’t high enough at the moment to justify shipping him off anywhere right now… not a guy with his ability. Unless we have the opportunity to add another proven top-tier starter… we ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT trade a guy of HoRam’s ability right now… certainly not just for the sake of unloading him.
By KC
November 6, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this
Lew:
I agree, Villareal does deserveal a spot in this bullpen. A long relief guy is important to have, and he did a nice job in that role. As for Cormier… I think maybe they’ll want to see more of him in a starting role after posting an ERA of close to 3.00 as a Braves’ starter in September. That will probably mean his starting the season at Richmond.
By Robert
November 6, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
“Not Glav, but a Japanese lefty who’s 27 and has been compared favorably to Ishii “
You and I compare favorably to Ishii, so that’s faint praise there
By Lew
November 6, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
KC-With Horacio, the question marks go further than his tendency for injury. He is flat out inconsisitent. Putting aside his two major injury plagued season (out of four), lets look at what you consider his good seasons-2003 and 2005. In 03 he was 12-4 for a division winner. His ERA was 4.00, not great. He walked 72 batters and gave up 181 hits in 182 innings. He only struck out 100. In 05 he was 11-9 with a 4.63 ERA (really bad). He walked 67 batters and gave up 214 hits in 202 innings pitched. He struck out only 80 batters. He has had one season under a 4.0 ERA and that was his 10 game played season in 04. These numbers point to mediocrity and nothing more. If the Braves sign a number 3 or 4 starter, they will then have Smoltz, Hampton, Hudson, James (all four locks for the rotation). That leaves Igawa (or whomever), Davies, Horacio and Cormier for fifth starter. Cormier can relieve and Davies is still young and they are both cheap. Horacio will cost $4 million + in arbitration and CAN’T releive. He has to go. Pure and simple. I disagree with you 120%.
By Salty55
November 6, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
Greg Agreed…spitting mad!
By BB FAN
November 6, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I live about an hour from Montreal, just across the border in NY. I used to see Chavez play a lot. We likely went to some of the same games. He does have speed and defense on his side, but he has never been a good hitter or an on base guy.
Ramirez is still only 26 or 27 years old. Some pitchers take that long to develope. Learning to stay healthy may involve a differnt training program, or something simple like that.
I remember when Vladimir Guerrero came up in ‘96 and ‘97, he was hurt a lot as well. He may have not changed anything, but he has had about 8 or 9 healthy seasons since. I think he has only had one since since ‘97 that he hasn’t played in at least 140 games.
It’s hard to say. I just think young left handed pitchers, with Ramirez’s skill, are a little more difficult to find than a Chavez.
By Bravo Nam
November 6, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
DOB and others
I hear what you’re saying about Hudson- cheap to keep, may not get much in a trade for him, and what happens if the Braves trade him and he reverts back to his Oakland form.
Here’s an alternative view that I hold. As DOB illustrated earlier, his past THREE seasons (that’s a reasonable statistical sample size) have been mediocre at best- his past two seasons even worse than his last one in Oakland. As long as he stays a Brave, on the balance of probability, the chance of him returning to his early days of dominating form in Oakland is a less likely scenario than his current deterioration.
I agree- not gonna get much in return if you trade him. But the reason you trade him is not to get anything in return- but to dump three years of salary bondage the Braves will be under come 2008. Granted, this coming year he’ll be relatively cheap. That’s why you trade him now. The Braves need something attractive to dangle before other teams- it certainly ain’t number of innings pitched, ERA or wins.
If the Braves play Russian roulette and bank on Hudson turning things around in 2007- they will choose to play with fire. Let’s face it- he’s more likely to continue to suck than he is to turn things around. If he sucks…the Braves can say it was worth the gamble for 6 million. You gotta be smarter than that.
If Hudson has a terrible to average season in 2007- the Braves won’t have anything to dangle before teams- no stats and no attractive salary. He’ll be impossible to move!
The reason the Braves should move Hudson NOW is to remove the looming millstone around their necks from 2008-2010.
You move Hudson now and you have flexibility to trade/buy some decent pitching, maybe make a run at AJ etc…you don’t bank on a forlorn hope that he will turn things around in 2007…the Braves should trade Hudson TO SIMPLY RID THEMSELVES OF HIS SALARY.
By BB FAN
November 6, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I used to go to so many Expos games that I always routed for them except of course against the Braves. I miss having the Expos in Montreal. I used to stay at the Sheraton Centers on Rene-Leveaque West for weekends at a time and go to games from the Metro. All teams stayed there as well. I got to meet many of the players at the hotel bar.
I will say I think Andruw Jones and Andres Galarraga are probably the most fan friendly. Chipper, Glavine and Smoltz were all pretty good as well. In fact, the only Braves players I have ever met that were not friendly were Roberto Hernandez and Otis Nixon. Nixon was looking to go out so maybe that’s why. And Hernandez treated fans like enemies. But every other Braves player was good about interacting with fans.
I remember Ugueth Urbina actually started hitting on my girlfriend while I was at the bar getting some drinks. He apologized when she told him I was her boyfriend. Then he signed something for me, so I didn’t care.
One of the biggest a*******holes I have ever seen is Barry Bonds. I was waiting outside for my girlfriend and Bonds was outside the hotel waiting for somebody or cab. But one kid, only one, asked him sign a baseball for him. Bonds responded with “why would I want to do that?” and then turned away from him. I could understand if he was being bombarded by fans, but it was one kid probably about 8 or 9 years old.
I wonder when guys like Bonds are going to realize that without fans, they don’t get paid the money they make. I’m glad Braves players are better interacting with fans. When I take my son to a ballgame, I want him to remember it as being fun.
By Lew
November 6, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this
BBFan-I hear what you’re saying and it is doubtful that the Braves would do a deal with the Mets, anyway. But Horacio has to go. See my other recent posts. Injured two out of four seasons in the bigs, including arm surgery. Surgery on his arm in the minors. A BB ratio of over 3 walks per nine innings and a hit an inning additionally. A salary going over $4 million a year and free agency the year after. He’s got to go. We are not dealing with Sandy Koufax. I also hear what Bravo is saying about Hudson, but I think there is more chance of Hudson putting up good numbers than Horacio. The Braves have acknowledged they are going after starting pitching, so something has to give. Hudson might go, but Horacio needs to go first and should be easier to shop.
By dgd
November 6, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this
How about these fixes: Andruw to the Angels for Erwin Santana and Howie Kendrick; Marcus to San Diego for LHRP Scott Linebrink; Hudson and Escobar to the Yanks for Robinson Cano, then sign Finley as a stop-gap in CF. You would shed a lot of payroll, have gotten younger (except for the short-term Finley), have gotten faster, solved the left hand reliever problem in the bullpen, and could have Cano lead off……..
By BB FAN
November 6, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this
KC,
I have to agree with you about the bullpen. It looks a lot better than last year. Paronto, Yates, Villerreal and McBride will all help Wickman. Cormier looked solid the last 6 weeks too.
And with Hampton coming back, the starting pitching should be better as well. But I would still like to see the Braves make a trade for one more solid reliever (maybe Linebrink for Giles?) and sign one more starter. If they could get Thomson to sign for ~ 1 mill, it would be worth it. I think he could help the bullpen as well as start a game or two if he needed to.
I still would like the idea of a better lead off hitter, but I’m not sure if there’s one out there that’s cheap enough. I thin Dave Roberts would be great or even Podsednik at a very discounted rate.
By Lew
November 6, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this
BBFan-It is likely we have met. My wife and I used to go to most of the Braves series and also stayed at the Sheraton Centrale. Just took the Metro to the games. The only autographs I’ve had trouble with were Maddux, Ligtenberg (never around), Vinny Castilla (always working out) and LaRoche. I don’t know about Otis. The biggest a*******hole I saw was Lenny Dykstra. He STILL owes me a bat for a portrait I painted for him. Chipper and Andruw are easy autographs. The biggest signer I ever saw was Javy Lopez. I’m lucky, I have 8 HOFers in my collection.
By Lew
November 6, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
dgd-And lost a LOT of RBI’s. It’s not time to go through rebuilding. We have no salary problems like so many think. We are only limited in our ability to sign expensive free agents. That’s all.
By David O'Brien
November 6, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Robert, you wrote: “You and I compare favorably to Ishii, so that’s faint praise there.”
Personally, my pitching skills don’t compare favorably to those of pre-injury Ishii, who went 36-25 with a 4.30 ERA from 2002-2004, with 382 K in 473 innings. I didn’t say Ishii was an ace and neither is this guy they’re pursuing now, I said was a No. 3-4 guy probably. This guy’s not going to cost a ton like the Japanese right-hander all the big-money teams are gunning for right now.
And he wouldn’t have as high a salary over the next couple of years as Horacio, who, by the way, is 30-22 with a 4.13 ERA in 86 career games, with 248 strikeouts (and 200 walks) in 521-1/3 innings.
While you or I don’t compare favorably with Ishii, Horacio does. Barely.
By rammerjammer
November 6, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
DOB, the Onion column was hilarious! Thanks for sharing.
Highly unusual for Braves to express interest in Japanese pitcher. It would indicate Davies should be apartment hunting in Richmond with Cormier, and that HoRam is clearly not in our future.
By dgd
November 6, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this
We’re going to lose those RBIs after this year anyway, and the reality is, after missing the playoffs last year, that it IS finally time to get younger. The draft picks the Braves would get for Andruw wouldn’t compare to what they’d get in players like Santana and Kendrick (not that the Angels have agreed to trade them)……Besides, I like the lineup with Cano and Finley added to Chipper, LaRoche, McCann, Francouer and Renteria……
By David O'Brien
November 6, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
Nathan, you’re right about Furcal _ 3 homers in 210 minor league games. But he also played shortstop, not a corner outfield spot (Blanco would obviously have to play left field while Andruw’s here).
More importantly, Furcal stole 96 bases in his last season in the minors (split between A-ball and Double-A), the year he hit .337 with a .417 OBP at Macon. Previous year, he hit .328 with 60 steals in just 66 games. Point is, he was a dynamic talent with an unbelievable cannon arm and tremendous, game-changing speed. And he was added to a veteran-laden Braves team that had plenty of veteran power hitters.
Not saying Blanco isn’t a fine talent and defensive stud, but to compare him to Furcal is quite a stretch. Furcal changed games immediately with his speed _ .294 with 40 steals and a .394 OBP, 28 extra-base hits and 37 RBIs in 131 games as a rookie _ and later with his combo of speed and power.
By David O'Brien
November 6, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
DGD, let me get this straight: You’re going to trade Tim Hudson, at age 30, plus a solid prospect (Escobar) for Cano, who has a .319 average, .342 OBP, 29 homers (and I’ll concede also a very impressive 75 doubles) and 140 RBIs in 254 games, and turn over the leadoff job to a guy who hasn’t had one at-bat in the leadoff position and who has six steals in 11 attempts, and 34 walks (with 122 K) in his entire career?
By nathan
November 6, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
Bravo Nam
I’m RIGHT THERE WITH YOU.
YES, it would suck if we trade Hudson and he would revert to “old” form and be a stud again. But you know what would suck WORSE?
Exactly what you explained above. He DOESN’T revert “back to form” and then we are not only stuck with a guy WHO DOES US NO GOOD ON THE MOUND, but we are stuck with a guy who does us no good on the mound WHO TAKES UP APPROXIMATELY 15% OF THE PAYROLL (if it stays at 80 million) come 2008.
As some of us say in the world of poker, “the pot odd’s aren’t very good”, no need to call with a losing hand, time to fold on Tim Hudson, IMO.
If we were the Yankees and could “take a chance” on him, and would be willing to “EAT” his salary by benching him, and or release/dumping him later in the contract, by all means TAKE A CHANCE! Take Kevin Brown for instance. But people, with our payroll “restraints” we CAN’T and shouldn’t take that chance.
By nathan
November 6, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
I hear ya, DOB. I just like to toot my own “knowledge horn” (or lack there of. LOL !)
I guess, the more REALISTIC comparsison, would be Juan Pierre. If you wanna go “old school”, you could throw Brett Butler, maybe even Otis Nixon into the mix.
Also a little bit of my “opinion” of us not neccesarily needing power/big offensive numbers from a corner outfield spot is this: How many teams have the STUD that we have at catcher? Not many. So it would be those teams that “NEED” power/offense from the supposed positions that you’re supposed to get those numbers from, correct? IMO, since we have McCann at catcher, that allows us the luxury of plugging in a player without a lot of POP at another position. Now of course, if Prado is given the 2B job (or Aybar), maybe we DO need some more power in LF.
I’m really not trying to “argue”. Maybe I’m just stating my opinion in the form of a question, to throw it out there for discussion. I’m sure that thereis 2 or 3 ways that JS could go, to make this team competivtive (or keep it competitive). But since we don’t have the payroll flexibility of years past, he needs to “cut corners” somewhere, IMO.
As always, thanx for the reply.
L8R
By David O'Brien
November 6, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
oh, and DGD, I liked Finley, too _ a few years ago.
You want to turn CF over to a guy who’ll be 42 in March and who in the past two seasons combined has hit _ hold on to your seat _ .234 with 18 homers, 94 RBIs, a .297 OBP and a .385 slugging percentage. That’s 2005-06 COMBINED.
Are you serious?
By dgd
November 6, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
DOB—I just don’t share your optimism that Hudson’s going to rebound—and let’s shed that salary sooner rather than later. (Although he did graciously sign autographs for my kids this past summer in Washington and seemed like a good guy.) I think Cano’s a dynamic player—although given the stats you cited, maybe not a leadoff hitter…….I’d also take Phillip Hughes, if the Yanks would part with him, for those two and let Kendrick play second …………
By David O'Brien
November 6, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this
BB Fan, you wrote: I wonder when guys like Bonds are going to realize that without fans, they don’t get paid the money they make.
I can tell you when Bonds will: Never. Because he’s made a ton of money while being a complete jerk to most everyone. Fortunatley, he’s the extreme example, and the vast majority of players are quite cooperative with fans and media, at least the teams I’ve been around (though the Marlins and Braves have probably spoiled me, since most of those teams had a lot of good people on them, guys like Derrek Lee, Mike Lowell, Cliff Floyd, Ryan Dempter, Kevin Millar, Francoeur, McCann, Maddux, Smoltz, Andruw, etc.
By Lew
November 6, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
DGD-Get younger? My God, Dude, do you own a Pampers distributorship? What about Francoeur, McCann, McBride, James, Aybar, LaRoche, Langerhans, Diaz, Yates, Paronto, Prado, Davies, Villarreal and Boyer? All of these guys have less than four years of ML experience. Just wait for one more year and it is likely Andruw is gone. Two years for Hampton, two for Smoltz(maybe) and two (probably) for Chipper. Let attrition do it’s part. Andruw will not accept a trade, so he is a moot point. Hampton’s contract can’t be dumped. Hudson is a possibility. Giles and Horacio may well be as good as gone. We already have one of the youngest teams in baseball. I mean, we’re hardly the Giants. What makes you think the Yankees even want to trade Cano, anyway. Put it in the column with Carl Crawford. It is not going to happen.
By Matthew
November 6, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly:
Sidney Rice was pushing off the entire game. I thought it was ridiculous that they didn’t flag him any more often than they did. I was hoping that Houston would knock him on his keyster in the first five yards every play.
Casey Dick deserves to start. Mustain has done reasonably well, but two things are important to remember. (1) CD never lost the starter’s job because of ineffectiveness. If it hadn’t been for his back injury, he would have started against So Cal. (2) Mustain said himself that he would have preferred to redshirt this year and learn how to adjust to SEC defenses. When that became an impossibility, he guided the Hogs to several wins. Guided, not directly caused, but guided. CD shows more poise in the pocket and seems to have the “it” that QBs are supposed to possess. MM will get there soon, but for now I support CD.
Why do you think DMac is not in the Heisman discussion? Is it his age? It CANNOT be his ability. My goodness, what talent.
ESPN College Gameday in Fayetteville. Sweet for recruiting and the national hype that Ark deserves. What do you think, Hillbilly? I’m guessing 28-21 Arkansas wins, and moves into the BCS Top Ten.
Now on to the Braves. As much as I like Marcus as a player, I’ve always thought that it would be neat for him and his whole family for him to play on the SD team with his brother. I think that if the Braves could get Linebrink in return, that would be a good deal.
By ncscoots
November 6, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this
KC, I doubt you want Foster in your 2007 projections. He’s no longer on the 40-man, so it doesn’t look as if he’s in the plans.
On another note, I hope the very FIRST thing JS will do at the winter meetings is trade Giles, if that’s the plan, and speak up about his ideas on who will hit leadoff. That’s the only way I know to reduce the blog mentions of guys like Freel/Figgins/Pierre/insert-other-downgrade-here. Seriously, do you guys even LOOK at the numbers on these names before touting them?
By BB FAN
November 6, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this
David O’Brien,
Bonds has always been a jerk, but it amazed me that he could treat a kid like that. I guess that’s the problem, he was always allowed to act like a jackass. Even in coolege. I have read some stories from other players and he was allowed to get away with anything because of who he was. He was even voted off the team at one time, but the coach decided to keep him. How the hell does somebody enjoy being hated? But he does. Oh well.
At least most other players are gracious signers and friendly to fans. Of course, I understand players probably get sick of fans wanting to talk, get an autograph or picture, but fans are responsible for their salaries. ANd of course there are inappropriate times for interacting with players like when they are eating a meal. But outside waiting for a cab?
By David O'Brien
November 6, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
BB Fan, there’s obviously no excuse for his boorish behavior most of the time. He’s just a mope, a bad guy, a jerk. Hey, he is what he is.
By David O'Brien
November 6, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
Nathan, it’s cool. we’re not arguing, just talking. I’ve got no problem with your suggestions (better to make some than not). I love the input.
But Finley’s done, man. And yes, Pierre would be a better comparison, I think, to Blanco. But Pierre had incredible range at one time, still does have good range. I haven’t seen enough of Blanco to form an opinion. Haven’t seen him at all, to tell the truth.
Keep an eye on another outfielder, Brandon Jones. He started to come on again last year. He’s legit prospect for future Braves outfield, maybe near future.
By KC
November 6, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
Lew: I’m sorry… I just don’t see the numbers (of Horacio Ramirez) the same way you do.
Walks allowed, hits vs. innings pitched, etc… is all well and fine, ERA is what matters. It’s a simple measurement of how many runs a pitcher allows to score per 9 innings. Nothing more accurately tells the story of whether a not a starting pitcher has done his job than ERA. The only other stat that really matters for a starter is innings pitched per start (please see Jorge Sosa in ’05), but HoRam has never had a problem pitching deep into games.
In his first two seasons with the Braves (’03, ’04), HoRam went 14-8 with a 3.59 ERA (his 2004 season was shortened by injury).
His 2005 season just wasn’t a good one. He too often left the ball up in the zone or out over the plate (unlike his previous 2 seasons), and he got hurt by the long ball. This year was a strange season for him, but if you look closely you’ll find that he looked pretty darn well when healthy in ’06. Roger McDowell got Ramirez sinking the ball and his HR/9 inning ratio was cut in half from the previous year.
Ramirez made 14 starts this season. Two of those starts were games in which he left early and was placed directly on the disabled list. In both instances he tried to pitch through the problem before realizing that he couldn’t continue to pitch. For the sake of evaluating his ability, I think it’s fair to throw out those two injured starts and focus on the starts he made between DL stints.
From the time he came off the DL in late May, until he went back on the shelf in August, HoRam made 12 starts. In those starts he went 5-4 with a 3.89 ERA.
Lew, as you accurately pointed out… within those starts we saw a bit of a Jekyll/Hyde scenario. 9 of his 12 starts were absolutely stellar, and the other 3 were just plain awful. There was no in between. In his 9 quality starts, HoRam went 5-2 with a 1.70 ERA. In the other 3 he went 0-3 with an ERA of 27.00.
My gut feeling is that if HoRam can stay healthy this year, he’ll iron out those inconsistencies. However, if he pitched exactly as he did over his 12 healthy starts this season… any team in baseball would take that. Any starter who can shut the other team down 9 out of every 12 times out is a valuable pitcher. Even with those 3 lousy outings, he still posted a 3.89 ERA over his 12 healthy starts. Let me point out that this is very comparable to the ERA’s that other lefties like Tom Glavine and Barry Zito are about to get paid 12-15 million per season for.
The bottom line is that I think aside from his 2005 season, HoRam has performed very well for the Braves, and has given them every reason to believe that we haven’t seen his ceiling yet. The only question is his health, and that’s a very legitimate concern. But still, it’s unthinkable to part with an arm like that unless you can get something considerable in return.
By superadam
November 6, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
DOB I saw you listing “good” guys that were braves and included smoltz. I have to respectfully disagree with you. Wasn’t smoltz the one who sued his neighbor over a tree casting a shadow over his pool. When I was at braves fan fest last spring waiting in the cold to get Smoltz’s autograph(he was late too) he barely paid attention to the fans and was not very willing to pose for pictures. While I admire him for his on field accomplishments, I thinh he needs to check his ego at the door. Just my two cents
By KC
November 6, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
BBFAN:
I think JS will acquire one more proven late inning reliever, such as Linebrink or Steve Kline, before next season. I also think we’ll put a couple offers on the table to guys like Dave Roberts and Juan Pierre, but if their price tag gets ridiculous the Braves won’t participate in a bidding war.
They may also look to add a leadoff hitter by way of trade, but if nothing else works out, I think they’ll be prepared to go to Spring training with Willie Aybar or Matt Diaz as the leadoff hitter. Personally, I also hope we get a true leadoff hitter, but I think the offense will be fine even if we don’t.
By ernesto
November 6, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this
Please (for the gazillionth time) No girly-armed Dave Roberts and no Dave-Roberts-has-a-cannon-arm-by comparison Juan Pierre. Please stop mentioning these two…it’s bad that you’re even putting that thought out there.
By nathan
November 6, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
DOB
It’s all good man. as I stated the other day, I haven’t seen anything (other than stats) on Blanco either. It’s just that everybody around here (the blogs) always has all these hairbrained ideas to go outside of the organization for help, when sometimes, it is POSSIBLY right under JS’s nose. I wonder how many people (I wasn’t an avid blogger back then) were b*tching about what kind of trades we needed to make to replace Mondesi, on these blogs back in 2005? I’m sure many. Just a guess.
As far as Finley. TOTALLY AGREE WITH you. I was never suggesting that he was a viable option, IMO. Just that he seems to be (in the past), the type of player (savvy veteran) that Bobby and JS look for to “fill in holes” temporarily. AKA: BJ Surhoff, Rico Brogna, Ken Caminiti, Raul Mondesi, Brian Jordan, Jose Hernandez. Of course this is not to “downplay” what Finley has done in the past. He’s been a very good MLB player, with a fine career. But you are DEAD ON, he’s done. Just like all of the above mentioned guys were, when they were brought on board.
On a side note, I saw somebody asked you a couple of weeks ago, how often you’re gonna do the blogs over the winter. Never did see a response from you (not to suggest that you didn’t respond - I just never saw it), what is the scoop? As much as I’m in the midst of Football season, - how bout those GRITTY GUTTY Chiefs yesterday? Lose FOUR STARTERS during the game on Defense AND their All-Pro LG and they still manage to “eek” one out on the road in St. Louis? (Sorry for the sidetrack.), I still “LIVE” for Braves baseball and have thoroughly enjoyed being a part of this blog since around June (I think).
I’m sure I’ll have something to praise/rip that happens in Bravesland in the upcoming months.
L8R.
By brian
November 6, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this
I still would be very hesitant to trade Escobar and Salty with the current economics of the Braves, unless if we get some young, major league proven talent in return like Ervin Santana or Carl Crawford (package deal of course).
Escobar should be starting in 2008 at the latest at SS,2B, or possibly 3B (depending on Chipper’s health). DOB has been talking about what a stud he is all year here waiting for him to get the call up. Salty’s value will probably never be lower. Above it was said you can’t take the chance on Hudson to revert back to his old form due to price, but we absolutely should give Salty every chance to turn around - he is cheap for years and will not land us anything substantial in return.
ncscoots - I would take Figgins any day of the week so you might want to check him out before ripping on people for suggesting Figgins. DOB ripped on me for suggesting Figgins would be included to the Braves for a fantasy/theoretical Andruw trade because Figgins would be too MUCH to give up in a package for AJ. I agree that Giles will be first to go, and who he goes for will start he dominoes falling
By nathan
November 6, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
DOB
Forgot to thank you on the Brandon Jones tip. It’s always good to have a “name” to watch/wait for.
I’ve heard the name, but not much about him. Speed guy or Power guy? Any familiar MLB players to “compare” his skills to?
thanx man.
By KC
November 6, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
nscoots:
Agreed, Foster would certainly have to earn a roster spot, but I’m not sure he’ll get the chance. Personally, I don’t think he’ll be back because I don’t think there will be any room for him once the Braves add another late-inning veteran (and they will). There is a chance that the Braves will want another lefty, in which case Foster might get a chance after all, but I kind of doubt he will. The only reason I brought him up was to say that if the Braves did nothing at all this winter, the bullpen would still be in decent shape.
I think the ’07 bullpen will look like this:
• Wickman
• Late-inning veteran (linebrink? Steve Kline?)
• Yates
• McBride
• Paronto
• Villareal
• B.Boyer
Linebrink is the name that gets all the attention, but Steve Kline is a very solid veteran setup man, and is a lefty to boot.
By rammerjammer
November 6, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
Agree with consensus that a Linebrink-for-Giles trade is good for Atlanta.
Linebrink would perfectly compliment Wickman. Power pitcher, been very effective for four years, but still only 30. Excellent, Wickman-like mindset.
Also, this would address any anxiety about Yates as RH set-up guy, since Tyler really has only one good year under his belt.
Make this trade in a heartbeat.
By MGL
November 6, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this
KC - If I recall correctly, Foster was released.
By ncscoots
November 6, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
Brian, I’ve afraid I have checked Figgins out: .267/.336/.376, 65BB/100K; the guy you would replace at the top of the order, Giles? .262/.341/.387, 62BB/105K. Does that look like an upgrade to you? If Giles’ performance has you screaming for a replacement, then surely you cannot think the same performance is an upgrade, can you?
By Lew
November 6, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this
KC-No need to apologize, Dude, it’s just a discussion. My problem with Horacio is this-incinsistency and injury. Our pitching staff has so many question marks at the moment. Hudson is a problem and I wouldn’t much care if he were traded for a jock strap and a couple dozen balls. However, I don’t see that happening. Hampton is also questionable. Now I take your stance in Hampton’s regard-I also think he will prove a pleasant surprise. But Horacio can’t stay healthy. Two out of four ML years and surgery in the minors is a pretty well established track recor. The rest of the time he IS VERY inconsistent. Like you pointed out, an ERA of 27.00+ in his Mr. Hyde starts. I just don’t think the Braves can afford to take a $4+ million chance on him with the other questions. If he were a rookie or second year guy, I would counsel patience, but 4 years is all you need to see patterns. Don’t get me wrong. When he’s on, he’s great. Also, I’ve met him several times at spring training and he’s a hell of a nice kid. I’d hate to see him leave, but I think we need to part ways.
By The Grinch
November 6, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
Bravo Nam: THANK YOU re: your 12:48 post. I’ve been trying to say that for months and everyone thinks I’m an idiot. Nathan appears to agree as well, so I guess a few people are actually starting to get it. Hudson MIGHT revert to form, though he’s had three injury-free years to do it and hasn’t. If he doesn’t, he’ll keep us from being able to plug holes with free agents for the remainder of his bloated contract while making as much or more than several other much better pitchers we might have gotten for the money. NOT A GOOD IDEA.
Superadam, I agree about Smoltz. I’ve only seen him once (back in about ‘92) and he was an a*. It was a public place and he was buying gas, and everyone in the store started giving him a polite and heartfelt round of applause. He gave a quick look like someone had farted and he stormed out the door and drove off. Maybe he was just shy, but it didn’t sit well with me.
By David O'Brien
November 6, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this
superadam, no question Smoltz has a big ego, but it’s part of what makes him the competitor he is. My evaluation of him is admittedly swayed by how good he is with the media, as far as availability and opinions and never avoiding us when he stinks. Now, I don’t know about him outside, just know he does a lot of work with kids, etc. An awful lot. I’ll let fans make those judgments, though.
But I’ll certainly second the opinion on Bonds. Sorry for those who like him as a player, but he’s just not a good dude. For what that’s worth.
By Jamie in Richmond
November 6, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
Kline is also an “a-hole”. Can you see him giving Bobby “the finger” like he gave to his skipper in the STL who wears his sunglasses at night? Kline’s been efficient, but as hard as good lefties are to find- I’ve got to believe we can find one who’s a little more even tempered.
By Matthew
November 6, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
Rammer:
You make good sense, and this would be one of those trades that really would benefit the players involved, as well as (in Giles’ case at least) the families connected.
By KC
November 6, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
dgd: There is certainly no guarantee that Hudson will bounce back, but if you look at all the numbers, I think it is highly probable that Hudson will perform much better in ‘07.
Some of this is a rehash of a post from last night, so if you’ve read it… please forgive the redundancy.
First of all, let me dispel something many fans are using to support the “demise of Hudson? theories. 2006 was the first and only bad season of Hudson’s career. His ’03 and ’04 seasons were termed “disappointments?, but that’s only because his previous 2 seasons were CY Young caliber efforts. His 3.53 ERA in 2003 and 3.52 ERA in ’04 ranked him in the top 10-15 % of all major league starters both seasons. In ’04 he certainly would have won at least 17-18 games had he even so much as an average bullpen behind him. It’s also worth mentioning that he was pitching through injury both season, and still finished among the league leaders in ERA. His 2006 season however, was bad. No one will argue that point.
Hudson’s season this year seemed very strange to me. How does a guy who had been among the best pitchers in baseball for 7 straight years, suddenly have a season like this for no apparent reason in the middle of his prime?
I was curious if there were any similar examples of something like this in recent history, so I looked up the career stats of every pitcher to finish fairly regularly in the top-10 in ERA over the last 20 years. What I found was encouraging. A number of top-tier pitchers have had seasons similar to Hudson’s ’06 season… a fairly miserable (even though healthy) year in the middle of their prime for no apparent reason. The encouraging part is that in every case I found of this, they bounced right back the following season. Here are a few examples:
• Mike Mussina (ages 27-29): 1995-ERA: 3.29… 1996-ERA: 4.81… 1997-ERA: 3.20
• Roger Clemens (ages 29-31): 1992-ERA: 2.41… 1993-ERA: 4.46… 1994-ERA: 2.85
• Kevin Brown (not sure of ages, but was still fairly young): 1990-ERA: 3.60… 1991-ERA: 4.40… 1992-ERA: 3.32
Some of these “bad? ERA’s listed above are lower than Hudson’s 4.86 ERA this year, but I would also point out that the above examples are mostly prior to the “live-ball? era (juiced-hitters, home-run happy ballparks, etc.) of the late 90’s and present day.
Hudson is only 30. He’s healthy and there’s not a thing in the world wrong with his stuff or velocity. History is on Huddy’s side. Pitchers of his caliber generally bounce right back from this sort of season (when it’s not due to age or injury). Anything can happen, but if you’re a betting man… look for a solid ’07 from Hudson.
By hk
November 6, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
.. just got an email from Journalist Bob … he is in fine spirits, still awaiting computer fix …
By KC
November 6, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
GRINCH:
Sorry but the data on Mig is inaccurate… sorry, just having Top Gun flashbacks. I meant to say your data on Hudson is inaccurate.
Hudson has NOT been injury free over the last 3 years. He was hounded by a nagging side muscle injury most of the way through both the 2003 and 2004 seasons which both Oakland and Atlanta officials believe affected him on the mound. I’m not making excuses for him for those two seasons because no excuses are necessary… he finished among the league leaders in ERA (3.53/3.52) both seasons. Not CY Young caliber as were is two previous seasons, but still pretty damn good if you ask me.
2006… well, what can you say? He was perfectly by all reports. He just stunk. But again, don’t build a case against him by using ‘03 and ’04 as evidence… it just doesn’t fly.
By KC
November 6, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
LEW
Final statement… even with the inconsistency, his ERA when healthy was 3.89. I think he’s capable of better, but that’s still well above average these days. Again, teams are paying ungodly amounts of money to lefties that can produce any kind of sub-3.00 ERA nowadays.
I’m with you on his injury-proneness. My argument for hoping we keep him (at least for now) is two-fold: 1-He’s got an awful lot of upside, but his place right now is at the bottom of the rotation. If he goes down, we’ve got a couple of guys who can step right in as a 5th starter. 2-His trade value is not anywhere near what it will be if he can stay healthy long enough for the Braves to showcase him for 2-3 months next season.
If we’re going to trade him, fine. But not just unload 3 million dollars. For a pitcher of his ability, we need to get something substantial in return. Hang on to him until his stock rises a bit more.
By The Grinch
November 6, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
KC, I think part of the problem I have with Hudson is this: I never said he was a bad pitcher. Even last year he wasn’t bad, just mediocre. The reason why everyone compares his last three years to the previous two is because those are the two his reputation and salary are based on. If you’re gonna pay a guy to be an ace, you kinda sort of expect him to pitch like one. So far, we’ve been paying him like a #4 starter and he’s pitched like one. No problem. The problem is when we start paying him ace money for the last couple of years of his contract. What’s he gonna do? Nobody knows. If we could give him a yearly contract with a base of around 4 mill with incentives that could push it up to 10 or 12, I’d say keep him another five years. However, our chip stack isn’t big enough to gamble with a dude who has already had two seperate careers by age 30 with no event separating them to make any sense. I never said I didn’t like the guy, or think that he shouldn’t be in the rotation. I just don’t feel comfortable about him being paid 13.5 mill per season after next one.
By KC
November 6, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
GRINCH:
Personally, I wish every contract would be incentive based, but unfortunately that’ll never happen.
No one is arguing that a 4.86 ERA in the first year of new major contract is diconcerting. Nothing about the 2006 season was good. We all just have to hope it was a fluke. I think it was, but we’ll just have to wait and see.
But as for his performance prior to this season… pitchers who can be counted on to post an ERA of 3.50 routinely get paid obscene amounts of money these days. Hell, guys who can’t seem to post an ERA that low are getting paid as much or more as Hudson these days. We don’t even need him to compete for a CY Young (though that would certainly be nice). If he can just get back to that 3.50 ERA level he will be a fairly priced top-tier starter by today’s standards.
By rammerjammer
November 6, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
Hey Matthew,
Now if I was San Diego, I wouldn’t make that trade. Gonna be real awkward when one brother is traded/released/benched or whatever and the other brother ain’t happy about it.
And I just don’t see Marcus as a third baseman. He’s played 642 major league games; nine of them at 3B. But if that’s ok with SD, it’s ok with me!
By Matthew
November 6, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
Rammer:
I see what you mean about the benching, but B Giles is on the back side of his career (35 if I heard right) and so I don’t know how much of a problem it really would be if one of them were benched. I really don’t see that happening anyway. Moving Marcus to third might take some adjustments, but I bet he could do it. M Giles is as talented defensively as any 2B in the NL in my view, and he could handle the transition.
How do you like my sales pitch so far?
By Rick Roberts
November 6, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
By rammerjammer
November 6, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
Matthew,
Well, if I was SD, I’d be “cautiously optimistic” after talking with you.
Marcus is a good player, excellent defensively, and his career might be revived being back home AND with his brother.
He’d probably be more affordable than other 3B options out there, too.
It’d be a risk. Shoot, it’d be a risk for Atlanta getting a guy who’s pitched 219 games in three seasons and whose ERA took a hike last season. Maybe he’s wearing out?
But this trade does address each team’s needs. Maybe not perfectly, but probably good enough to pull the trigger.
By Troy
November 6, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this
Hello all, Signing Lugo would be a HUGE mistake that guy is gonna command at least $8 million/year for probably 4 years, I mean Orlando Cabrera got what 4yr/$40 mill we don’t need to waste time or money on that guy
By Troy
November 6, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this
Lets stop talking about trading Andruw, yeah his agent has likely priced him out of town but think of it this way:
1) He has said he WILL NOT accept a trade!
2) As if he won’t get enough money already, guys seem to be a little more productive in a contract year (ex. Soriano, Beltre) so why not ride the coattails of that, if we put the right pieces together around him, and he steps up his game even more (which could be scary good!) then we have a shot at a world championship, not to mention a Ring may help persuade Andruw to stick around longer.
By Lew
November 6, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this
Rick Roberts-1.Lugo will cost almost twice as much as Giles will. 2.Linebrink for Giles is all you will get. No additions. 3.Crawford is not going to come to the Braves. He is young, cheap and signed fairly long term and the Rays are looking for pitching, which we can’t give them. 4. We will have plenty of money as it is. Getting rid of Sosa, Reitsma, Remlinger, Jordan, Thomson, etc. will free up about $12.5 million. Smoltz’s contract decreases by $2 mil, that’s $14.5 Wicky’s contract and arbitration raises makes that about $5mil left. Trading Giles frees up another $5 mil and trading Horacio frees up another $4mil. That leaves $14 million to spend on pitching and a RH hitting corner infielder (Helms?) and leaves Andruw in center field. 5. Horacio can develop until the cows come home (my contribution to National Cliche week) but like I told someone earlier, you can’t learn to stay healthy. He will make $4 + mil this year, more than $6 next year and then he’s a free agent. Do you really want to take the chance that he will “learn” to stay healthy? I don’t. Four years is more than enough to know he’s injury prone in a major fashion.
By David O'Brien
November 6, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this
I don’t want to overstate the Japanese lefty thing. The guy is just a name being mentioned, but I wouldn’t put as much stock it in as you might have read some places. I think speculation was just fueled by working agreement Braves have with Hanshin, Igewa’s team over there. I still think it’s less than likely he comes to Braves, because I think Seattle or someone will put in a higher bid to get negotiating rights….
Here’s one thing I feel it’s probably time to throw out there again: I’m 99.9 percent certain that Andruw Jones is going to be a Brave in 2007. Make that 99.999 percent certain. Just makes no sense to try to trade him for at least three reasons _ not going to get enough in return; he probably wouldn’t approve a trade because he’s better off putting up huge numbers in walk year where he’s comfortable, playing for Bobby in Atlanta; and the Braves still have some hopes of signing him long-term, and wouldn’t want to poison the relationship by trying to trade him and thereby probably ruining any chance they have of re-signing him….
Steve, you’re exactly right on the new rules and Rule 5 draft. Braves now can wait a year before they have to protect Salty, Brandon Jones and a few others. Makes it even better move, in retrospect, not to have brought up Salty or others in September. They would’ve added him to 40 man then, and now they don’t have to until a year from now. They would have lost a one-year option by bringing him up then, and that’s pretty big stuff. Having all his options makes him that much more attractive _ to Braves and all other teams.
I agree with Jamie on Kline _ not a Braves-type guy, by any stretch.
By Mike Lum
November 6, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this
DOB, does Kelly Johnson figure into any plans next year? Maybe in the infield?
By The Grinch
November 6, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this
Man, I just took a 30 minute nap that turned into two hours. Hate it when that happens. KC, you’re a hard man to argue with; you’ve almost got me believing you. :-) Optimism can be infectuous. Well, we’ve got our bet on, and nobody hopes I lose more than me. We’ll see. So Lew, are you saying we can’t get Crawford for Salty? But how can they turn down someone with such a catchy (pardon the pun) name? I mean, ANY team ought to trade us ANY player we asked for, just so they can say “That’s right, WE’VE got Salty now. What position did he play in AA again?”
By KC
November 6, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this
I grew up in the ATL area, and live here again now, but I spent a few years in San Antonio, TX and developed a hobby which has now become my favorite baseball-off-season passtime… watching the San Antonio Spurs win the NBA championship. They took a year off last year, but they’ll be right back at it this season. They’re playing the Knicks in an hour… not much doubt about this one.
GO BRAVES and GO SPURS!!!
By journalist jimmy smith
November 6, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this
LAKE FOREST, Ill. (AP) -Brian Urlacher walked into a meeting room Monday with no noticeable limp, an encouraging sign for the Chicago Bears, still reeling from their first loss.
“An MRI exam showed the star linebacker has a sprained big toe on his left foot …”
toes are not to be trifled with.
now, the most famous toes on the braves’ team were encased in golf shoes today at the uh, fourth annual chipper jones celebrity golf tournament. let’s hope those toes heal by spring.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 6, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this
igawa could work here. the nickname “iggy” comes to mind. wasn’t there an iggy on happy days? of course, bobby being somewhat unconventional could name kei igawa something else. already igawa has the nickname, “iron nerves”. bobby could turn that into “irony” or “nervy”. oh, the irony! where is the death ray?
By The Grinch
November 6, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this
Is this guy a flyball pitcher? We could call him “Iggy Pop-up.” Bwah-ha-ha!
Matthew and Hillbilly, congrats on the game Saturday. Now if y’all can just take care of Phat Phil and then the Gay-tors in the title game (here’s to the war chickens losing), I could feel a little less awful about Georgia’s season.
By Tomahawkin
November 6, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this
Does anyone, about the Rumors, of A. Jones to San Francisco, or to The Angels, I thgink its just a bunch of hear-say, and a bunch of people living fantasies…Just wanted to know if anyone else has heard these Bogus Rumors, since Bochy likes A. Jones a lot…?
By Tomahawkin
November 6, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this
Oh yea Chris Hammond is a Free agent, Lets bring him back 4 a tryout,He’d be cheap and He can’t be no worse than Reeksma and Tyler Yates….
By GM Wannabe
November 6, 2006 07:42 PM | Link to this
Does anyone think Aaron Boone would be a good pick up for the bench (1B, 3B, 2B). He is much better player than Wes Helms and has not great speed but not real slow either. Another question: Who is going to back up McCann this season? Brayan Pena is an option but I believe he is better suited as trade bait [Houston(Mike Gallow) Toronto(Scott Downs)]. I’m sure there will be some veteran backup out there to sign, perhaps Mike Lieberthal or Sandy Alomar
By Tomahawkin
November 6, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this
I still love the Idea of Nationals Outfielder Nook Logan as Leadoff man next year, He knows his role and doesn’t try to hit pitches out of the park, and he utilizes the bunt to his advantage which I think is a lost art, that most teams don’t possess…
By The Grinch
November 6, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this
What’s up, T’hawkin’? Been a while. Chris Hammond was washed up when we had him last time (Leo just pulled a miracle out of his hat) but you’re right, he couldn’t be worse the Reitsma. Yates’ll get better though; he’s coming off a major surgery and he was better as the season went on.
By dadgum
November 6, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this
If DOB is correct in floating the Ivory Soap prediction that he is 99.97% percent sure that Andruw will remain a Brave then I believe they have 1 more year with Andruw, period, the end. If Boras and Andruw are seeking the 20 mil mark it won’t be with Atlanta. No player is worth 25% of a team’s payroll. Atlanta will let Andruw walk for compensatory picks if it gets to that and if the Braves hang on to the 80 mil payroll. Can’t see the Braves trading Andruw in mid season when they are most likely in the hunt. I have said for months on end that the Braves are trying desperately to sign or trade Andruw prior to winter meetings. The Braves are in trouble if Andruw arrives in ‘07 without an extension or traded (waiving veto or approving trade).
By Tomahawkin
November 6, 2006 07:53 PM | Link to this
Grinch, Whats Happenin Chief, I’m just B.S.ing before MNF…Dude Yates never impressed me last year
By Tomahawkin
November 6, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this
Or come to think of it, Trade Langerhans, Reeksma, and one or two others to Baltimore for Corey Patterson, that dude hit 16 homeruns, and stole 45 bases, and he’s only 27…he has stellar D, but he does have a problem becoming infactuated with the longball at times, or at least when I used to catch the daygames on WGN, maybe he’s matured and cut down on his swing… Thoughts?
By GM Wannabe
November 6, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this
What happened to the Giles to Clevelan for Jake Westbrooke rumors. I think that is better than Linebrink because with Westbrooke JS could use the extra starting pitcher to go get a leadoff hitter. Maybe Hudson to the Reds for Ryan Freel. Souds one sided for the Reds but with Hudson gone it will free up alot of money.
By Tomahawkin
November 6, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this
Oh yea, WTF IS up wit da Falcons Defense, We are out in the 1st round, if we play like that in December, That secondary is garbage…
By Tomahawkin
November 6, 2006 08:06 PM | Link to this
Hudson Has p-s-s-ed me off, but I’m giving him 1 mo year, before I say trade him, Him and Mulder have not been the same since coming to the NL, for a time last year, I thought Hudson was pitching hurt… but you’d never know…
By journalist jimmy smith
November 6, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this
tomahawkin is this a set-up? nook logan? and what nickname would bobby have for nook logan? oh, the humanity!
By nathan
November 6, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this
Tomahawkin
I feel your “sentiment” towards taking a chance on Hudson. But my friend, I’m afraid if we wait one more year and he SUCKS next year, we will thing being STUCK with Mike Hampton’s contract was paradise! Better to trade him one year too soon than one year too late. Just my opinion, though.
By David O'Brien
November 6, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this
Just an update _ Escobar was co-Player of the Week in the AFL. I’m told the Braves might look at him for the outfield if that’s where there’s a need, but they definitely believe he can play SS-3B-2B in the majors. Got a great arm, and has much more of a power presence than any of their other middle-infield prospects, which is what separates him from the glut they have.
By BravesFaninRockies
November 6, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this
journalist jimmy,
why, “logie,” of course, just to show that BC has improved his vocabulary …
By The Grinch
November 6, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this
T’hawkin’, It’s not the players, it’s the d-coordinator. Kevin Mathis is out with a spinal injury and he’s a key to the secondary, but it doesn’t matter if the ‘85 Bears defense is there if you play prevent every down. The only thing prevent defense prevents is victories by the team that employs it. What a sick joke. Um, we’re only gonna let you guys get 10 yards a play guaranteed instead of possibly getting 20 (but in reality averaging about 5.7, which is what NFL offenses average against a team playing straight-up defense). Please.
Nathan, one huge difference between Hampton and Hudson is that I have a good bit of confidence that Hampton will play up to his salary when he’s healthy (which he should be next year). He’s got some pride, and he doesn’t just “lose it” for no apparent reason. If his ERA’s over 3 and a 1/4, it’s because he’s hurt or in Colorado. If he isn’t, he’s kicking a$$. I don’t mind that we’re paying a guy like that.
The Thrashers look awesome. Did anyone else see tonight’s game? Kovy had a hat trick, but Hossa’s goal was one of the coolest I’ve ever seen.
By Head Coach
November 7, 2006 02:32 AM | Link to this
Interesting discussion concerning Hudson and Hampton. I say wait and see who has the better season and if both are healthy and available after 2007 trade one of them and use that money toward resigning Andruw. I’m crazy , I know but signing Andruw to a 20 million a year contract isnt as scary as it looks. Smoltz , Wickman and Giles(if he isnt traded) contracts are up after 2007. Hampton ,Chipper , Renteria , Ramirez and Villarreal’s contracts are up after 2008. So there is a ton of money that JS can juggle and if Andruw is allowed to leave the mass exodus just might follow . whereas if Andruw stays JS can pick and choose who stays and who goes elsewhere. I dont have a crystal ball and who knows what the future holds. But I do know this , almost all of the current big contracts(excluding Hudson who is up in 2009) will be up for grabs in the next two years and the Braves have a ton of talent in the minors. So dont be suprised when we see some major upheaval in player personnel during the next two seasons.
By Shaun
November 7, 2006 07:35 AM | Link to this
Or come to think of it, Trade Langerhans, Reeksma, and one or two others to Baltimore for Corey Patterson, that dude hit 16 homeruns, and stole 45 bases, and he’s only 27…he has stellar D, but he does have a problem becoming infactuated with the longball at times, or at least when I used to catch the daygames on WGN, maybe he’s matured and cut down on his swing… Thoughts?
The Orioles aren’t trading Patterson unless they get a younger player with more potential.
By Shaun
November 7, 2006 07:55 AM | Link to this
The Braves are in trouble if Andruw arrives in ‘07 without an extension or traded (waiving veto or approving trade).
I think the Braves aren’t worried either way. They aren’t going to trade AJ without getting plenty of talent in return. If they don’t trade him (which seems likely), they’ll still have him for at least one more season; he’s not going to tank because he has everything to gain by having a monster year. (There are studies out there that find players either perform slightly better in their walk year or there is no significant difference in walk year performance and expected performance. This is good news for the Braves no matter what.)
The worst that can happen is Andruw has another big year, then the Braves let him walk and get draft picks. Plus they don’t have to pay him a huge salary beyond ‘07—they can spread that money around.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 7, 2006 08:54 AM | Link to this
Matthew, I’m going to say 24-21. Looks like Tennessee’s running back is suspended for the FIRST HALF of the game. I’ve never heard of that happening before. Anyway the other two are suspended for the whole game. About the Heisman, I don’t know why DMc doesn’t get the recognition, but if he put up these kind of numbers for somebody like Ohio St. or Michigan, he’d already have a ticket to New York in his pocket. I’m anxious to see how Corso and that other j-a try to talk down AR this weekend. Thanks for the congrats, Grinch. I hope we can fulfill your wish by making it to the title game and putting a pop-knot on the gators’ heads.
By KC
November 7, 2006 08:54 AM | Link to this
Shaun:
I think the last part of what you said (Andruw’s salary) is the reason it won’t hurt the Braves as badly if he walks. This wouldn’t be nearly as bad for Atlanta as if he had walked the first time he was eligible for free agency.
Star players are typically still bargains for their original team up until the point where they’re eligible for free agency. You could have the best player in all of baseball and only be paying him 8-10 million a seasons (though it seems funny to place the word “only” next to a figure like that). So if that player then walks, you won’t be able to replace his stats for anything near the same price.
Andruw on the other hand is already making 13 million a season. The Braves might offer as much as 15 million per season to re-sign him, but they won’t go any higher. If he declines the Braves best offer and walks, they might not be able to completely replace his production for 13 million, but they can come close (offensively anyway). 13 million is a lot of money, so if we lose him we’ll get 13 million and a couple draft picks as compensation. I don’t want to see him go, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world, particularly if Francoeur has matured more as a hitter by that point in time.
By Matthew
November 7, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this
Hey Grinch:
Thanks for the props. I can’t stand Cheatin’ Phil either, nor can I stand the FLA team who shall remain nameless. I expect Ark to trash TN this weekend, go down and bury the dawgs in MS (notice the lack of capitalization of d, in deference to the SEC’s real Dawgs), then play LSU close (win or loss by less than 10 pts). FLA in the SECCG will be a fun way to ride into the Sugar Bowl.
Hillbily, you out there?
Go Braves and Hogs! WPS
By Matthew
November 7, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this
Hillbilly:
I was working on my last post and didn’t see your response. Sorry about that.
I agree-1st half suspension is typical Fulmer. But I have to give him some credit, though. I figured he’d wait and suspend them for the Ugandan State Technical Intsitute game next year…
With apologies to the former Ugandan journalist…
By BB FAN
November 7, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
I agree with you about Andruw. Keep him for ‘07 and if he wants to stay with the Braves after ‘07 at a discounted price (if you can call $15-16 mill/year a discount), then great. If not, they free up $13.5 Mill for ‘08 which is more than enough to go out and get a #1 starter. By then Francouer can shoulder some of the run production that they lose.
Then Hampton’s salary is up after ‘08 so thats another $8 mill for the ‘09 season. After ‘09, Hudson’s salary and I think Chipper’s is up so there’s another $14-25 mill for ‘10.
The problem with the Braves payroll is not that it’s “only” $80 million. It’s that 3 or 4 of the player’s contracts were signed when the Braves had a $100 + million payroll. Those salaries will be gone over the next 2-3 years.
By Troy
November 7, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this
Check out Peter Gammons piece on the Bill James Handbook, he highlighted gut three year trends in OPS, Chipper’s has gone up each of the last 3 years, granted he hasn’t played a lot but he has still got it. I think you’ll be interested to see who all is onthe list check it out
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=gammons_peter#20061106
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 7, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this
Journalist Jimmy Smith,
Chipper was playing golf yesterday? While the rut is on? 9-iron over 9-point? Who’s in charge at the Double Dime? Do hunter’s get a discount if they book a hunt on a day when Chipper is golfing?
By Troy
November 7, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
Wade Miller is a FA I have always thought of him as an interesting option, he had some real good years with Houston he’s 30 years old, and he only made $1 million last year with CHC. Any thoughts on him?
By Were Read 2 Def
November 7, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
Get some taste in music DOB. That’s right. Simeon’s back.
By Lew
November 7, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
Thank God people have finally come to the conclusion that A. Life without Andruw could be dealt with in 08 and 2. The Braves ain’t broke, nor will they be. Now if we can convince people that we need to look to what the Braves moves should be and not worry about the Mets. It doesn’t matter what the Mets are doing. We can’t just make moves to counter the moves they make. We have to keep our own goals in mind. We’ve seen too many times that the most money spent does not mean the winningest team come post season. The Mets are definitely a good team, but have more question marks in their rotation than we do. We need to tweak our pitching staff. The Mets need to find one. Glaveine, Maine and a decent bullpen (for one year) are nothing to jump up and down over. Their money may not guarantee them getting the horses they need.
By Lew
November 7, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this
Troy-Miller has not started more than 16 games in the past three years. He had shoulder surgery last year and did not even pitch until after the All Star break, pitching in only five games. I don’t see him as either reliable enough to stay healthy or to be an inning eater, like the Braves need. I doubt he will be on their radar. Or anyone else’s for that matter. I’d rather keep Horacio and take a chance on him (he needs to go).
By journalist jimmy smith
November 7, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this
matthew, this journalist does not think uganda state fields an american football team. still, with most tennessee players in jail perhaps uganda state could play and win.
now, hillbilly … imagine being booked at the double dime and when it comes time to have your deer signed by uh, chipper jones - chipper is not there! will he mail the deer home after signing? and now, does chipper make a divot when he swings? and what of the ball washer? that could be troublesome for chipper …
By Troy
November 7, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
Ok I didn’t know about his injury status thanks for the update though big guy!
By ncscoots
November 7, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
Just spitballin’ and lookin’ into a murky crystal ball, I feel pretty good about a core of LaRoche-Francoeur-McCann-Escobar-Andrus in the coming years (assuming, naturally, that the prospects fulfill their potential). Maybe even add Thorman to that, if he gets a chance here rather than someplace else. That’s still pretty good pop in that lineup, so one or two no-lumber glovemeisters (e.g., Andrus and Blanco) wouldn’t be lineup-killers. And there’s still Van Pope, Eric Campbell, Josh Burrus, etc., not exactly chopped liver, on the prospect front. So, even with AJ leaving, Chipper near the end, Giles traded, etc., etc., etc., Braves future still looks pretty good for the next few years (position-wise, anyway…don’t get me started on the pitching).
By Troy
November 7, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this
Does Davies deserve to start in the majors next year?
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 7, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this
Scenario:
You are an established closer for an MLB team. After the third out in the bottom of the eighth, what song plays over the PA system when that bullpen door opens and you’re headed to the mound? Hoffman has Hell’Bells. I already know that mine would probably be Stranglehold by old Uncle Ted. Also what should Reitsma, Sosa, and Kolb’s songs should have been?
By Carroll
November 7, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this
AK Hillbilly: that’s an easy one…the song for reeksma and gang should have been “everything falls apart” by dog’s eye view.
By Robert
November 7, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
For anyone who has been trying to figure out what went wrong and why the Braves didnt go to the playoffs, this little blurb from sportsline.com should help
“We just didn’t win enough ballgames, simple as that.” —Manager Bobby Cox
What can I say. The man is a genius
By Lew
November 7, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this
Scoots-Check out Matt Harrison, a pitcher in AA. Check out his K to BB ratio. Nobody seems to mention him when talks of talent in the minors comes up. I think he is one of our future aces. Troy-I think the farther out from surgery that Davies gets, the better he will be. His performance post surgery last year was not faith inspiring, but the guy was coming back from extremely serious surgery and I seem to remember one column in the AJC about how all the Braves post season hopes rested on his return. Stupid idea and totally unrealistic. It shows just how desperate we were at the end of the year. I think he may need to start at Richmond, but I would not be ready to dump him like so many others advocate. Hillbilly-I still think Wicky’s song should be Nantuckett Sleighride by Mountain-for several reasons.
By Robert
November 7, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this
“Also what should Reitsma, Sosa, and Kolb’s songs should have been? “
Some songs that come to mind
1.Gasoline Alley - Rod Stewart 2.TNT - AC/DC 3.Skyrockets in Flightx- Starland Vocal Band
By KC
November 7, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this
Arkansas Hillbilly: “what should Reitsma, Sosa, and Kolb’s songs should have been?”
I don’t know… but it would have to be a drinkin’ song.
By Lew
November 7, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this
Robert-When reduced to basic terms, that basically sums it up. You can only say that the pitching was awful so many times. Anyone who even asks the question of what went wrong, either doesn’t pay attention or is completely clueless anyway. I wouldn’t dignify that question with an involved answer either. BC will be manager next year whether or not you like it. Go take another Valium or go back on vacation. Or just talk about something else. For your own peace of mind.
By Troy
November 7, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
Lets not forget about big Phil Stockman that guy can bring it and he might be a force in the bullpen next year.
By Matthew
November 7, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly:
Just saw this stat on Arkansas v. TN
Ark. rushing offense 4th in the nation TN rushing defense 62 in the nation
Gotta like our chances!
I don’t know about a Reitsma, Sosa, and Kolb song for the 9th, but I do know that the CD would skip.
By BB FAN
November 7, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this
The pitcher from Japan (Kei Igawa) that the Braves are interested in pitched 6 innings and gave up 2 runs in the game last night. He struck out 4, gave up 5 hits but walked 6. Giving up only 2 runs to the loaded lineup that Major League Baseball sent to Japan is great, but the 6 walks is a little scary. Supposedly, he was trying to hit the corners all night. Obviously he missed a lot, but that may be a good thing with that line up.
By Troy
November 7, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
Money is not an issue and you can only choose ONE who should be a Brave his entire career Chipper or Andruw?
By Lew
November 7, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
Troy-There’s also Dan Smith a LH reliever with a good K to BB ratio and a low avg. against, Zach Schreiber a RH reliever with a low avg. against, Wil Startup and Rich Scalamandre, who we got for Sosa. His numbers at Richmond were encouraging. We hardly are destitute in the minors. Except for Glavine, Smoltz and Avery, when did the Braves really have more than one young pitcher at a time coming up? We have James and Davies. We really won’t need kids for a couple of years. Let them develop. It’s not as if we haven’t drafted pitchers every year.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 7, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this
Autographed packages of deer steak. Now we’re getting somewhere. Tenderized? Now we’re getting our $70 dollars worth. The ball washer—-I’m not even gonna touch that one.
By Troy
November 7, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
What his name J.J Reyes as well
By Troy
November 7, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
Jo-Jo my bad
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 7, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this
That’s good to know about TN’s run defense. Another 150+ yds. from DMc in the ESPN Spotlight would raise a few eyebrows.
KC David Allan Coe has a song that goes something like: “How do you spell relief, I get D-R-U-N-K” Would that work?
Or how about George Strait’s new one “Just Give it Away”?????
By Mike
November 7, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this
Just a thought here and DOB please feel free to respond but does anyone think that Trot Nixon could be on our radar? He is good defensively and he puts up offensive numbers and I think he could be had on the cheap, relatively speaking of course. Any thoughts out there….
By Lew
November 7, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
Troy-I just included pitchers from AA and AAA. I think Reyes just started in rookie ball and was not particularly impressive-yet.
By Lew
November 7, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this
I correct myself. Reyes is at Myrtle Beach-low A ball. He is looking quite good, actually and is 12-5 in the minors with an ERA of 3.5 and a good K to BB ratio. Teach me to talk before I look up the facts.
By Stinky
November 7, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this
KC, Comparing Hudson to Roger Clemens is like comparing an apple to a porterhouse. Clemens is bigger, stronger, meaner and an HOFer. He’s never flirted as seriously with an ERA of 5 as Hudson. He had 7 consecutive seasons up to his 30th Birthday where he pitched no less than 228 innings (and averaged 256 IP / Year).
That said, I hope Huddy does bounce back. An ERA of 4.00 and 225 IP would not justify his salary, but it would be realistic and welcomed on a pitching staff full of question marks.
Huddy’s problem is that he’s too skinny. When he was younger, his athleticism made up for his lack of size. As people age, though, the gell in the joints goes and takes that spring in the step with it. JS should have taken that into account when he dealt for him.
Even Junkballin’ Tom Glavine weighs in at 190 lbs. I don’t like ol’ toofuss, but I’d take him over Hudson for the same money. Just make sure you sit him for three starts in August.
By Robert
November 7, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
“We just didn’t win enough ballgames, simple as that.” —Manager Bobby Cox
Yeah, that’s right up there with “e = m c squared”
Or is it closer to “Hee Haw”
By David O'Brien
November 7, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
I love _ or don’t, actually _ when people who’ve not blogged in a while announce “that’s right, I’m back” like we’re all supposed to take notice or tremble or even give a crap. Whatever. Say something or stay away….
I don’t think Trot Nixon’s the answer, my man. What do the Braves need another platoon OF for? Especially not one who doesn’t hit for much power. I’d much rather have, say, Dave Roberts. At least he’d fill a need (leadoff). And I think they’ll re-sign D. Ward as the key bat off the bench….
Speaking of taste in music (as our “I’m back” guy did), the new CD that Willie Nelson did with Ryan Adams & the Cardinals is surprisingly _ at least surprisingly to me _ excellent. Willie has been pumping out so much product lately, much of it mediocre, and Ryan Adams puts out about 3 CDs a year, so I wasn’t expecting a helluva lot. But it’s really, really good. Called “Songbird” and it’s got a lot of great covers, some upbeat, several close to perfect…
Black Keys at Variety Playhouse on Friday. It’ll be tremendous, guaranteed…
OK, got an excellent under-the-radar movie recommendation: “Down in the Valley,” starring the always-outstanding Ed Norton, Rachel Evan Wood, and the David Morse as the tough-a%$ dad trying to keep urban cowboy/grifter/ex-con Norton away from his pretty young daughter. Great movie.
Rolling Stone critic Peter Travers said, “A genuine find of a movie… a wild thing that sticks with you long after it’s over. Norton is at the top of his risk-taking game, crafting a performance to rank with his career-best work in Fight Club, Primal Fear and American History X…”
By BB FAN
November 7, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this
Robert,
Please give it a rest with the Cox bashing. We get it…you hate Bobby Cox. And you don’t think he’s a HOF manager. You are the only one, but what ever. Blah, Blah, Blah.
By Bravo Nam
November 7, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
Nathan and Grinch Thanks for the support on Hudson. KC You make some good points, but I’m not sold on Hudson turning it around. And as Nathan said, 40 million over three seasons is a lot of cash for the Braves to be gambling with on an 80 mill payroll. There is something else about Hudson that just doesn’t sit right with me- he has consistently said he’s not injured, but I don’t believe it. I think he’s carrying an injury and covering for it.
DOB Given the certainty with which you feel Andruw will be back, it raises an interesting question. Come 2008, for the Braves to get those draft picks, they have to offer him arbitration. What if he does a Maddux and takes it?
Robert Down boy, down. I thought you said before you went away on leave that you hoped when you got back all of us would’ve stopped talking about Cox and we could get on to another subject? By the way, Starland Vocal Band never had a song: “Skyrockets in Flightx”…it was “Afternoon Delight”.
I’m off to bed…see you all later.
By The Grinch
November 7, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this
Didn’t Clemmens have some obscenely low ERA last season, even at 42/3? Hudson’ll be flipping pancakes at Waffle House at that age, if his arm can still hold a skillet. BUT, he could still surprise me.
Robert, I do agree Bobby should have his own Guiness commercial sometimes. “Trot Reitsma out again for the 9th? BRILLIANT!” Oh, well. At least Wicky’s here now, and Reitsma will only be in for the 8th. Of course, that will insure that Wicky won’t pitch the 9th…(sigh).
By Bravo Nam
November 7, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
DOB Agree with you there. Saw “Down in the Valley” about two months ago on DVD here. Really enjoyable watch. Another great performance form Edward Norton.
By Stinky
November 7, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
Lew, Myrtle Beach is high A ball.
By David O'Brien
November 7, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
Nam, it’s early to be having this discussion, but I really think there’s very little if any chance Andruw would accept arbitration. Here’s why: He’s 30, Maddux was close to 40. Andruw could get hurt and for accepting a one-year, say, $18 mill salary, he’d have sacrififice potentially 4-6 times that in earnings. Maddux wasn’t going to get a big, multi-year contract at that age, and Maddux got far more in arbitration for a one-year salary than he would’ve gotten in, say, a 2-3 year deal. Andruw would probably make essentially the same in a one-year, arbitration-set salary that he might get PER YEAR in a mult-year deal? Am I making any sense? Hope that helps a bit.
By Stinky
November 7, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
Start Brian Jordan on opening day: Brilliant!
By kinley
November 7, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
Lew: A month or two ago I noticed Harrison’s solid season. I hadn’t heard much about him at all before I noticed his 54/17 K/BB ratio and 3.61 ERA.
So I sent an email to Jim Callis over at BaseballAmerica asking him what he thought about Harrison. But the guy never responded, so now I’m kind of in the dark.
Do you have any idea what the Braves’ plan for him is? I wouldn’t think he’d make the big leagues in 2007 unless a couple guys go down, but the 2008 season seems reasonable.
By Shaun
November 7, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
Money is not an issue and you can only choose ONE who should be a Brave his entire career Chipper or Andruw?
I think it has be be Chipper. Here are his numbers in his worst season (1997):
.295 AVG/.371 OBP/.479 SLG
Here are AJ’s career averages:
.267 AVG/.345 OBP/.505 SLG
Andruw is obviously better defensively and Chipper is older, but Andruw is likely to get a huge pay raise. Chipper is likely going to be forced to take a pay cut by the time he’s ready to sign his next contract; or at the very least his pay won’t go up significantly.
Andruw is obviously the more valuable player in the next five or six years, but when taking everything into account (skills and contract) it makes more sense to keep Chipper.
By Mike
November 7, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
DOB thanks just a thought about the North Carolina native Trot Nixon. Have you heard about the tribute to the band coming out soon called “Endless Highway”? Widespread Panic, The Allman Bros, My Morning Jacket, Gomez,and North Mississpii allstars just to name a few…should be great!!!
Hey anymore news on Jake Westbrook?
By The Grinch
November 7, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
Yeah, ain’t Jordan something? He’s a great guy, but he had quite a confusing career. He was an excellent safety for the Falcons (a position where one both gives and recieves a lot of physical punishment), then switches to baseball (whre he isn’t as good) in order to avoid injury. He doesn’t get hurt at all in football, then becomes a walking surgical scar in baseball. The guy was (oops, shouldn’t say WAS, Bobby might start him opening day next season…you never know) like a glass doll. I doubt that’s ever happened to anyone else (I know about Bo, but he was playing both sports at the same time).
By The Grinch
November 7, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this
I don’t know how many of you watch football, but y’all will know what I mean when I say this: If I EVER, EVER see John Cougar/Mellencamp/Whatever in person, I’m gonna beat the taste outta his mouth. I won’t have to see/hear that “This is Our Country” commercial too many more times before I’m gonna need some thorazine. It’s in my head now still from last night’s game. Who else here absolutely WILL NOT buy a God-%$#@ Chevy truck now just because of that f-%$# commercial? Good Lord! Why? WHY?
By eware
November 7, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
DOB, do you know who’s opening for the Black Keys on Friday? I’m totally stoked about the show. Who needs a bassist to rock the house??
Well…Primus does.
By Phat Bat Boy
November 7, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Personally, I’d be SHOCKED if Brian Jordan isn’t on the opening day roster if he wants to play another year. We all know that Bobby loves his veteran players, whether they can produce on the field or not.
When you read about Escobar, it just makes the Renteria deal that much harder to take. Yes, Renteria was a very good player for the Braves. Yes, Boston ate a portion of his contract. But I have to believe if we had gone with a cheaper SS option, we could have spent more money on the bullpen last year. Scherholtz learned his lesson and seemingly paid a premium to bring back Wickman (isn’t he getting more money next season than he got from Cleveland last season?) But I am still miffed that we went into last season with a bullpen payroll that was likely half of Chipper’s salary. An $80M payroll is good, but not when you are spending a $1.50 on the bullpen. Imagine if Renteria’s salary was spent on a true closer this past season.
By rammerjammer
November 7, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
Re: Westbrook query.
MLB.COM’s Indians’ page has a fan e-mail asking about Marcus Giles, and the beat writer says Marcus is “on the radar” but “whether he should be is a matter of debate.”
The writer points out Giles’ diminishing productivity and says Atlanta wants relief pitching, which the Indians don’t have. (I thought JS wanted another starter.)
He theorizes that Marcus may end up in San Diego.
On another front, looks like the Padres will let Dave Roberts walk. Five teams are mentioned as interested, Atlanta not among them. Take a look: http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20061107-9999-1s7padres.html
By journalist jimmy smith
November 7, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
this journalist is back! whoa! is someone grumpy? now, journalist has found the white mansions cd and is about to play it. will let bloggers know more soon.
By ncscoots
November 7, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
Hey, you only have to look at available free agent RP to understand why the Braves are seeking bullpen help via trade. Sheesh. If Justin Speier and Darren Oliver are the creme de la creme, whoo boy.
On another note, I don’t see a better FA to fill the righthanded bench bat role than Helms. That doesn’t mean there might not be someone better available via trade, plus don’t know if the Braves even see that as a need. I’d just like to see a little more late-inning pop available on the bench, and a duo of Ward/Helms in the on-deck circle strikes me as pretty fine.
By Lew
November 7, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this
Scoots-I agree onHelms-and he can play first or third. Stinky-I still think that Myrtle Beach is LOW A ball, but I have been wrong once or twice. As far as Hudson’s strength goes- He just wrote a column for Chop Talk Magazine and he was understandably NOT happy with his 06 performance. The gist of what he wanted to do about it was to go back to his old strength and conditioning program, which he altered when he had the side muscle (oblique?) problem a couple years ago. Read into this what you will, but it does seem that he is aware of the problem and seeking to do something to remedy it. We shall see about the efficacy and whatnot.
By ernesto
November 7, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this
“Give it away now” by the Chili Peppers
By John Adcox
November 7, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this
Speaking of music, the amazing (and always a hoot) Mike Cross will be playing the Red Light Cafe next month. Check him out if you can.
John
By MGL
November 7, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this
Lew - Myrtle Beach is high, Rome is low.
By GM Wannabe
November 7, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this
LEW- Why not Aaron Boone he can paly 2B as well and has better speed and just a better player.
By Lew
November 7, 2006 06:12 PM | Link to this
I stand corrected. However, Reyes is still a considerable ways from helping the Braves.
By Robert
November 7, 2006 06:12 PM | Link to this
” Imagine if Renteria’s salary was spent on a true closer this past season.”
I presume that you’re not saying that Wickman isnt a true closer, but rather that what if we a guy like Wickman all year instead of Reitsma et al - correct?
Two possibilities - 1) We make the playoffs and lose in the first round
2) We miss the playoffs and there’s more blame put on the offense than on the relief pitching
You could spend $2 million or $2000 million on this ballclub - it’s irrelevent
By Robert
November 7, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this
This question about what ifs regarding the relief pitching and/or the offense and whatever last season are kinda poinltess.
The opportunity for failure was there because of
a)relatively weaker starting pitching than the Braves have been used to
b)poor relief pitching
c)some holes on offense
By redistributing some of the money spent on players you couldve partially plugged some of those holes, perhaps at the cost of worsening others.
It’s all fairly irrelevent.
If you do everything humanly possible to keep a __ from shooting himself in the foot, he will find some way to shoot himself in the a* instead
By journalist jimmy smith
November 7, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this
CINCINNATI (AP) -Dick Pole, Dusty Baker’s bench coach with the Chicago Cubs the last four seasons, was hired Tuesday as the Cincinnati Reds’ pitching coach.
nickname, fowl pole.
at least fowl pole is in another division. still, we can no longer take a pole. oh, the confusion!
By Stinky
November 7, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this
Lew, I live in a Low A Ball town that the Rome Braves visit, so it was a turkey shoot for me. I actually like minor league baseball more than major league baseball.
Reasons:
Dollar Beer Night.
There’s no such thing as a bad seat in a minor league park.
Dollar Beer Night.
Dollar Hot Dog Sundays.
The mascot my daughter loves so much.
Dollar Beer night.
The faces of the Rome Braves contingent as I mercilessly heckled them for daring to set foot in our house in the playoffs.
Dollar Beer Night.
By MEB
November 7, 2006 08:06 PM | Link to this
$2000 million… how much money is that? Would you go away for that much money?
By The Grinch
November 7, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this
Dang, Robert. Looks like you’ve made some friends.
Man. I bet it’s awful fun to be heckled by Stinky on dollar beer night. Who says pro athletes have it easy?
Go Hawks! They’re actually not losing at halftime.
By Lew
November 7, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this
Stinky-I know how your daughter feels-I got to meet the Famous (aka-the San Diego) Chicken at a AA St. Pete Cardinals game. I think it was on dollar beer night, too.
By Stinky
November 7, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this
Did anyone vote for Bill the Cat today?
Grinch, The art of heckling is mostly waiting for the right opportunity. Don’t waste your breath in a blowout. Drink your beer and be gracious to the beer vender.
But in a close game, look for the girlfriend of one of the visiting players. She’ll usually sit in box seats by the visiting dugout, most likely holding a poster board sign proclaiming her support for her future major league meal ticket. Single him out and get her flustered. Then yell that she just bought you a beer. He’ll press when she starts yelling back at you.
And be loud. Its not heckling if no one hears you.
By MEB
November 7, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this
So does heckling minor leaguers make you a minor league heckler? I thought I remembered a big fat guy with a $1 beer in each hand shouting obscenities at our baby Braves.
Grinch… down by 3 with 3:00 left, on the road against Lebron and the Cavs, lets go Hawks!
By MEB
November 7, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this
Tyronn Lue shot two of the ugliest free throws in the history of the NBA and makes up for it with a crazy floating layup with no time on the clock to send into overtime. WOW!!!
By MEB
November 7, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this
Hawks win 104-95, I can’t believe what I just saw. The Hawks are 3-1 to start this season.
By David O'Brien
November 7, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this
Scoots, Helms is probably going to get a better job than pinch-hitting. Several teams interested in him, some even as a lineup regular….
eward, Black Keys opening band is … The Black Angels. no kidding. I don’t have any of their stuff, but they’re supposed to be really good, retro-sounding psychedelic rock.
By flbravesgirl
November 7, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this
So if I ever attend a game at that un-named ballpark, Stinky will be the guy right behind me blasting my eardrums out?
Just kidding, Stinky, although I do seem to always be in close proximity to someone with leather-lungs. The one time my family dragged me to a college football game I was ready to choke the woman behind me (she obviously had made several too many trips to the beer stand).
By Scalp 'Em Braves
November 7, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this
Here’s a nomination for Reet’s entry music - don’t think the song has been written yet (any volunteers to do so?) - the title sure fits:
“My Neck Hurts From the Sudden Jerk of Looking Up and Out”
By Scalp 'Em Braves
November 7, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this
Grinch: After the Dawgs barfed on themselves (e. g. the Dore-Mats & Kain-Tuck (i.e., the football apologists)), shall I send you a bag to wear over your head, as some of the Crimson Turd contingent did this past Saturday? Gawd, you guys stink, a lot more so than one would expect from a leg-humping dog that runs around in the heat wearing an ugly sweater. And, to add insult to injury, both you and the Bammers have totally screwed up our strength of schedule. Geez, give us some help here !! Lay down this Saturday, and then beat the crap out of Tech.
Just kidding about the insults. They are good natured. You know that us Aubies love you Dawgs as long as you roll over onto your backs and beg for a belly rub. See you in the Jungle on Saturday. There’s always next year to look forward to!!
Hillbilly and the other Pig Snout (whose name I cannot recall at present) Gotta admit, you guys came into our house and cleaned our clock. Don’t think it will be so easy this weekend against the Drunks, nor against the Bayou Belchers next week. If ya’ll think your tracks to Atlanta are as smooth as pig grease, think again! Be pulling against ya all the way. War Damned Eagle!!!
After proof-reading this post, I think I oughtta apply to become the next host of “Leonard’s Losers”. GET ME OUTTA HEEYEAH PERCY!!!!!!!!
By The Grinch
November 7, 2006 11:23 PM | Link to this
MEB, that game rocked, did it not? When Lue sunk that crazy shot to send it to OT and the camera focused in on him being held back like he wanted some more I knew we’d win. That was tight. This looks like a different team than last year. Hawks and Thrashers good in the same year may be more than I can handle, though this is still just the beginning.
Stinky, I haven’t read Bloom County in about 15 years; that reference brought back memories. Interesting tip on heckling; I may try it.
Scalp ‘em, get in the pot-shots while you can. I got nothin’ to say this year. Our freshie QB’s getting all the experience he can handle, but if we don’t start recruiting some o-linemen quick I may not have much to say next year either. Not good times. Y’all are in danger of overlooking us though; don’t count your war chickens just yet. Crow all you want next Saturday night if you win.
FBG, glad to see you’re still around. Thought perhaps you’d flown the coop.
By Scalp 'Em Braves
November 7, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this
Grinch: We un’s know all about counting our piglets before they are hatched. Witness the hatchet job the Pigs did on us earlier this year. Hope to God the players are taking you guys seriously. I don’t want to walk out of the stadium Saturday listening to the “Hunker Down Dawgs” yell I have heard in the past when we lost. If you do win, bring a rain coat, cuz we’ll bring out the fire hoses. You know our history. The interesting thing about this series (ongoing since 1892, by the way) is that the visiting team has won more times than not. Not over confident here, especially the way we have played down to our weaker opponents this year. Just confident that our’ens are better than your’ens this year. Next year, who knows what will come? Just hope your QB survives the onslaught this weekend, cuz it’s coming - bet on it.
Just scrolled up to read some previous posts and laughed my arse off over your JCM comments. The weird thing about that whole Chevy ad campaign is that JCM has adamantly refused to license his music for ads over the years. I guess he wrote that song specially for the Chevy ad. I feel like you do. I felt cheapened by being a huge Bob Seger fan all these years, and then I find that “Like a Rock” means that I gotta buy a pick up (can’t remember now, after a few beers, whether he was hawking Chevy or Ford). No thanks - I’ll stick with my 1972 Chevy C-10, with rust, noisy engine, and white smoke from the exhaust pipe. This despite my wife’s protests about the truck being visible from the road. I don’t give a tinker’s damn that anyone sees it. Hell, at least once a week somebody stops by and offers to buy it. Nothing I can do to destroy that truck other than let it run low on oil. It knows the way to the dump without me steering, and my Yellow Lab and I are STYLING in the truck on the weekends.
By brian r
November 7, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this
Hey KC. Do you live in San Antonio? I do and am always looking for more Braves and Spurs fans to chat sports with.
By flbravesgirl
November 7, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this
Went to the Georgia house for a few days, Grinch. Apparently my computer was upset about being left alone so I came home to no internet connection. You know I wouldn’t just abandon y’all.
By Stinky
November 8, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this
MEB, Unfortunately, the Low A Rome Braves looked a lot like their Major League Tomahawk counterparts in the divisional playoffs last season.
flbravesgirl, just don’t hold up a placard that says i heart Romak, or whatever next year’s flavor in Rome is.
Grinch, I always cast a write-in vote ballot for Bill, usually for someone who runs unopposed. And my daughter still talks about the big white chicken she saw 2 1/2 months ago. I wish she could have seen Max Patkin.
Scalp’em, How about Mozart’s Requiem Mass?
By Scalp 'em Braves
November 8, 2006 12:18 AM | Link to this
Stinky; Requiem (i.e., Mozart’s march to death) may be appropos for the Crimson Turds - Seems that they will do a “Reverse Requiem” and try to bring Bear back from the grave. Maybe if you play the record backwards, it will say “Bear is Back”?
By flbravesgirl
November 8, 2006 12:27 AM | Link to this
Stinky, no danger of me holding up silly signs (not even for McCann, let alone some minor league kid). Do they really do that? Sounds very 12 year-oldish.
Unfortunately we don’t see any good mascots down here, just that idiot Raymond from the Devil Rays. The only funny thing involving that hairball that I’ve seen recently was Frenchy stealing the keys to his ATV (probably payback for the hairball pestering Mac the previous game). The grumpy security guy made Jeff give the keys back after a few minutes. I was hoping to see the blue hairball have to chase him all over the field.
By Stinky
November 8, 2006 12:51 AM | Link to this
flbravesgirl, The Augusta Green Jackets have an excellent mascot - Auggie the Green Jacket. He’s essentially a yellow jacket with an Augusta National type green jacket and some yellow plaid pants. He’s really good with kids and went to some sort of clown/mascot school.
Cal Ripkin owns the team and seems to have all of his sh!+ together.
Scalp, I was thinking the Requiem would be for Reitsma’s arm or career.
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 02:45 AM | Link to this
Scalp ‘em, I’d be truly surprised if y’all didn’t kick the crap out of us this year. Yes, I’m fully aware it’s been going since 1892. I’m aware of the visiting team thing. I’m also aware it’s just about the closest rivalry ever. I hate Florida, but that’s a recent thing (we’ve owned them overall, and we will again). We got a nasty thing going with ol’ Smokey, as well, but we usually take care of business. Tech don’t amount to squat; they may win this year but they know it’s only because they’re at their best and we’re at our worst. Auburn is the only team I always worry about consistently year in and year out. That’s why I’m rooting for Arkansas.
FBG, I’m glad to know you understand our weakness. The knowledge of no more FBG would set us to mortal kombat. :-)
Stinky, I actually had a Bill the Cat t-shirt back about 1985. That really makes me feel old.
Night, all.
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 02:52 AM | Link to this
Oh, yeah, Scalp; I grew up on Chevy trucks. My first one was a ‘67 long wheel base with a 327 three on the tree; white w/blue interior. My current one is an ‘82 Chevy LWB w/ a Goodwrench 350 I ordered from the dealer. Edelbrock performer intake, Holley 4010 carb, Hedmann Hedders, Accel ignition, etc. However, JCM makes me want a Ford…only Toby Keith makes me not want a Ford. Truthfully, the best ad is Black Sabbath for the Nissan Titan. That and 317 HP makes me want one of those. And we wonder why we’re behind…
By MEB
November 8, 2006 05:38 AM | Link to this
Love minor league baseball! My team the Montgomery Biscuits is just up the road and would no doubt be a favorite among those on this blog.
By Bravo Nam
November 8, 2006 06:31 AM | Link to this
DOB Good points on AJ and arbitration.
Two great movies Current- “Edmond” with William H. Macy. Oldie- “Inside Moves” AKA “The Guys from Max’s Bar” with John Savage and David Morse. Awesome watch.
All bloggers Sounds like a few of you see a bit of minor league baseball. Unfortunately, here in the Nam they don’t even play baseball! Read a lot about players like Escobar, Andrus, Salty, Campbell, Pope etc. I would love to hear about some sleepers in the organization- some guys with great upside/potential who get very little spotlight but who you think will make the stage sooner rather than later.
By Shaun
November 8, 2006 08:23 AM | Link to this
Bravo Nam,
I did a quick Google search and research and found one possible sleeper: IF/OF Barbaro Canizares
.307 AVG/.368 OBP/.423 SLG in his first season of pro ball. He defected from Cuba so there’s some questions about his age. He may be anywhere from 26 to over 30. Still, he looks like he could be an option as a utility player in the majors. Probably nothing special, though.
By journalist jimmy smith
November 8, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
aybar reportedly has upside. we shall see.
By Robert
November 8, 2006 09:52 AM | Link to this
It’s real early, but man that was a nice win for the Hawks last night. Could they finally have the real stud they have been missing for so long?
This is a young team. A few more wins like this and their belief in themselves will start to cement.
Could a fun overachieving type season
And a good Thrashers team too
Fresh - I like it
By Lew
November 8, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this
Bravo-No baseball in Viet Nam-somewhat barbaric, isn’t it? That would never do. Check out Matt Harrison, a 21 year old LHP in AA Mississippi. He is 11-8 in the minors, with a 3.35 ERA. He has given up only 12 HR in 158 IP and has struck out 114 while only walking 33 batters. He looks like he might just be worthwhile.
By Shaun
November 8, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this
journalist jimmy smith,
I think Aybar could be a very solid everyday player if he develops more power, which could happen. Supposedly he’s only 23, so he still has time to get a little stronger.
As I’ve said, I think he’ll be at least as good as Betemit. He has better plate discipline and it looks like he has better range so he can play more positions than Betemit.
By ncscoots
November 8, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
DOB, re Helms, that’s an interesting take. I know he had a great year last year, but his career stats don’t exactly scream “everyday player”, do they? Guess there’s more than one team looking for corner infielders with sock, though. Good for Wes, anyway, though I would love to see him back.
BTW, any notion that the Braves are even thinking that way, i.e., a need for righthanded pop on the bench (assuming that they will try to sign Ward as a LH bat)?
By David O'Brien
November 8, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this
Nam, don’t know if you’ve heard of him yet, but you probably will soon enough. This Hawaiian guy’s got tons of talent and raw power: 1B Kala Kaaihue, split season at Rome and Myrtle Beach and led Braves minor league system with 28 HRs and 80 RBIs while hitting .281 with a .407 OBP and .958 OPS .
Started out season crushing pitching in low-A (Rome), hitting .329 with15 HRs and 49 RBIs in 67 games, then struggled average-wise (.223, 49 K in 188 ABs) at Rome but still hit 13 homers with 31 RBIs in 188 at-bats and a .342 OBP there.
Guy’s got a bright, bright future. Couple years away.
By Jamie in Richmond
November 8, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this
I was able to see Kala Kaaihue play with Myrtle Beach this year. One thing that really stood out about “K.K.”, to me, was his size. This guy’s built like a tank. Forearms, chest, etc. You don’t see many guys his age put together like he is. Definately somebody to keep an eye on, as Mr. OBrien said…
By TennesseePaul
November 8, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this
I keep reading about Kala. I’m excited about what I read too. I look forward to him playing for the Braves. He could be ready to take over full time about the time LaRoche is a free agent. I haven’t heard much about his defense though.
By Robert
November 8, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this
Regarding Kala Kaaihue - what are his K rate, BB rate, and K/BB ration ?
These inside numbers are gonna tell you a whole lot more about his potential to be a big league hitter than raw power numbers in the low minors or how hunky he looks in his uniform
There’s a lot of strong young kids that can hit mistakes a mile and a half, and a lot of A and AA pitchers that serve up a lot of mistakes to be hit
The same kids hurt themselves and throw bats trying to lay off a big league breaking ball
Take a look at Pirates suspect Brad Eldred for a great example - looks like Adonis, would hit 40 dingers in AA year after year, cant hit his weight in the bigs
I’m not saying KK is or isnt a prospect. I am merely saying that low minors power numbers are not the way to determine whether he is or isnt
By Bravo Nam
November 8, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
Shaun, Lew, DOB & Jamie Thanks for the minor league feedback. Don’t know much about these three guys, but at least had heard of Harrison and Kaaihue. The Cuban, Barbaro- first time I had heard of him. I like the sound of Kaaihue. Indeed, most of these Pacific Island guys have muscle on muscle- built like brick shithouses! That’s why so many of the small south Pacific nations have great forward packs in Union. Scaarry!
I was most pleased to read about Harrison, as the Braves currently have a dearth of consistently good SPs in the minor leagues. Plenty with big reps…but not borne out by their stats.
I think it’s no coincidence that the Braves struggles with pitching in recent years has also coincided with a drop in depth of talent in our minor league system comparative to years prior to that.
You look back a few years ago, and the scouts would be raving about this pitcher and that pitcher in the Braves minor league system, while at the same time bemoaning a lack of quality position players- how times have changed- and so too the Braves recent successes in hitting and drop off in pitching.
It’s hard to pinpoint why this is- each draft the Braves still pick up a bundle of pitchers- whether the quality of our scouting assessment has declined OR the club has fast tracked pitchers too quickly OR coaching standards have deteriorated OR what, I don’t know- just know the Braves currently have more position players than pitchers that give me a hard on at the moment.
By Matthew
November 8, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this
Scalp ‘Em:
I’m the other Hog apologist on this board, and if you’re an Auburn fan, then I sympathize. It must be rough to be stomped into the ground at home by an unranked opponent who was picked to lose by 17, and then to spend the rest of the season looking up at them in the stands! Arkansas will beat the viles this weekend, coast past MS St in Starkville, and then wrap up the regular season already crowned SEC West champs. They’ll add a Golden Boot trophy after their win over LSWho, and then trash the Gators in the ATL. Once in the Sugar Bowl, who knows what will happen. In my completely biased opinion, Ark will walk over the golden domers of ND and finish the year 13-1, ranked in the Top 5.
And just think: Razorback fans were expecting a 7 or 8 win season and the Cotton Bowl! And what about next year?
Be afraid, be very afraid…:)
By kinley
November 8, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
This is probably a reach, but theoretically the Braves could trade for Brett Gardner, a 23-year old Yankees farmhand. He’d come cheaply and he’d be playing relatively close to home (he was drafted out of the College of Charleston)
He stole 58 bases over two levels last year and hit .272/.352/.318 in AA. He isn’t going to graduate to the majors anytime soon with Johnny Damon in center.
That said, I’m not sure whether he can play left field or if he could be called ready for the big leagues. He doesn’t have power, but with the power Atlanta has in center and right, I think that would be a very small price to pay.
Regardless, I think it’d be a solid move. If not for next season, then possibly for 2008. There aren’t many players in the Braves’ system who can run like him.
By Dennis
November 8, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this
Anyone have thoughts on whether Salty will be a Brave come next season? With good hitting catching at such a premium could we get a top shelf pitching prospect for him?
By eware
November 8, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
DOB, have you ever read “The Legendary Red Dog: A Book of Tails”? I’m thinking about buying it, cause it sounds like a great insight into the Allman Bros touring world.
Was watching “Almost Famous” (the greatest film ever, in my opinion) and it inspired me to look more into the Red Dog. Best line in the movie: (talking about the future of rock) “..and it will just become an industry of cool.” That quote nailed it on the head.
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this
Morning, all.
Robert, the Hawks average age is 23 1/2, three full years younger than the next closest team. They’re not constructed properly in terms of size (almost everyone’s the same height and position), but they’re hugely talented and althletic and they have the benefit of no expectations from anyone. They should be fun to watch develop. The Thrashers are already there; I don’t think they’ll fade much barring injury. Those two are helping ease the pain my Dawgs are inflicting on me this year, but not enough.
By Head Coach
November 8, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
Kinley , you may have not read all the accolades concerning Gregor Blanco. The Braves need a leadoff hitter right now and he is an option. Want a trade that makes sense ? The Pirates are looking for a cheap power hitting left handed 1B (can you say Scott Thorman) And they have a glut of young outfielders , among them is Rajai Davis a switch hitting outfielder who could be another option along with Willy Aybar and Blanco as a leadoff hitter.
By Robert
November 8, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
Dude, dont mention the Dawgs - It hurts. Vanderbilt AND Kentucky - are you kidding me?
Next thing you know, there’ll be insects thinking they can beat us
Interesting thing about the Hawks - Of all the pro sports, basketball is the one that the most about freakish athletic ability - run isolation plays for one or two guys who noone alive can stop regularly and bingo
It’s a team of small forward athletes, but hey - you might laugh, but they remind me of the Suns
If Claxton really is a bona fide NBA point guard (which the Hawks havent had since the Doc Rivers days), then look out. They arent gonna beat the Spurs, but they could very well make the playoffs
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this
That really stinks about Johnny Sain; anyone who’s read Leo’s book knows who all the credit should go to.
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this
I think the biggest problem with the Hawks is that the coach is too old school. I don’t think he uses these type of players to the best of their ability. That, to me, is one of the biggest reasons they don’t look more like the Suns.
This Georgia season’s a wash regardless of what happens next, but it would be nice to finish with an upset of Auburn and no matter what we need to beat the fleas. That will preserve at least some order in the universe.
By Stinky
November 8, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
Grinch, the Dawgs ate a big footlong bad karma hoagie when they gave Vince Dooley the bum’s rush into retirement. It might take a year or two longer for the Dawgs to find the right QB situation and meantime, the Vols have David Cutcliffe back as offensive coordinator and he seems to be the difference maker in them being worldbeaters. And Meyer is now comfy as the coach of Florida, so we got that to deal with.
I’m telling you, I hope Mark Richt is made of more than what I see right now.
By Scalp 'Em Braves
November 8, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this
Auburn Georgia One and The Same Grinch - click on the link above for a good story on the AU - UGA rivalry. Hope it links properly - haven’t tried to do this before.
By Scalp 'Em Braves
November 8, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
UGA suffers from the same thing the rest of us SEC fans do - we want to win now, win it all, and win pretty. The top programs have little to no tolerance or patience for excuses like “we’re young”, “we’re on probation, so our numbers are down”, “we’ve had a lot of injuries”, etc. Witness what is going on over at Alabama now. Since Stallings retired (and, they were ready to ride him out of town after his very first game - a loss to Southern Miss), they have had DuBose, who after one good season got caught with his fly down and his secretary on her back (on his desk), Franchione, who spent his time winning games, for the most part, and scheming on how he could manipulate R.C. Slocumb’s firing at Texas A&M, Mike Price, who seemed to have an affinity for strip clubs, late night drinking and 3somes in hotel rooms (hey, sounds like my kind of guy), and who is the only coach at Bama who never lost a game (because he never coached one), and now Shula, who is so out of his element, and wants nothing more than to get fired, collect his $4 million buyout, and wait for daddy to get him a job in the pros again.
I think Richt is a very good coach. Kind of hard to argue with his record so far (at least until this year, anyway). I’ve always thought Nutt-case was one hell of a coach - he’s just stuck in the middle of nowhere and has had a hard time getting elite players to come, until the last few years. Fat Phil, like him or not, can coach, as can Urban Renewal. Tubby, as long as he keeps his mouth shut, and focuses on the game, and not the rankings, etc., does a great job. I think the coaching, along with the athletes in the SEC, is what makes it THE premier league in the country. Wish I could say the same for the officiating - it stinks.
By Cleanuphitter16
November 8, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB for the player updates. I hope you can continue to provide hungry Bravos fans with some winter news. Considering how many decisions the Braves have to make this offseason, I know I’ll be checking this site often for any bit of news about what’s going on! Thanks again!
By Matthew
November 8, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
Scalp ‘Em:
Middle of nowhere? NW Ark is among the fastest growing places in the USA! People tend to think of the UA as being in the middle of nowhere, between where True Grit and Deliverance were filmed. It is a neat place, and AR has the best facilities of any team in the SEC, hands down. A couple of links are:
(http://www.fayetteville.com/demographics/)
(http://www.houstonnutt.com/facilities.htm)
It’s only out of the way in that it is separated from the rest of the teams in the SEC. But with our modern technology, the world is shrinking quickly, and AR is not so far away now.
Wait, this is a Braves board. When will the real trades and moves be made? I’m getting anxious!
Tomahawk chop and WPS!!
By Robert
November 8, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
Grinch, just remember - Ga Tech football sux, even in the one year in ten that they happen to beat the Dawgs
Keep the faith - Ga has a good future and Richt is solid and should be there long term
Now as for college hoops, the ‘Cuse is in the house
By BB FAN
November 8, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
In addition to bring in a leadoff hitter, I think the Braves need to bring a coach in next year that can help the base running game. Not just stealing a base either. Aybar made a many mistakes on the basepaths with the Braves. I remember seeing even Renteria make a few bad decisions last year.
The Braves used to be fundamentally sound on the basepaths, but last year they needed some help. They need a coach to improve that aspect of their game.
By Robert
November 8, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
You hope Richt is made of more than what you see?
Ga just completed it’s best four year run since Herchel Walker was in town, including one year where they were basically one play against Florida away from playing for the Championship
This is the SEC - you have a head cold and there’s five teams ready to kick yer behind (like Big East basketball)
Richt’s got it. And Dooley, nice guy and local legend that he is, needed to be moved along. Legend status gives one the right to be a local hero forever and for a place in the team’s hall of honor and in the hearts of the fans, but it does not give anyone a right to stay on the sidelines forever.
Bobby Bowden was a great football coach for as long as anyone - It’s time for him to be replaced. It’s not time to diminish his legacy, or to trash his past, but it’s time for a fresh start at FSU.
As it was at UGA when Dooley went.
As it is LONG overdue in, oh, never mind
By luke
November 8, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
Josh Barfield was just traded to the cleveland indians. you guys know what this means… marcus giles is on his way out as an atlanta brave and on his way in as a san diego padre! they have been reported to be hot on the trail of marcus and this shows it. i heard that jake peavy is availably if the right deal come along. hmmm… i know peavy is wishful thinking but the gm himself did promise to be very active this offseason and to return us to the top!
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this
Stinky, Michael Adams is the root of all evil. Dooley should’ve been allowed to say and do whatever he pleased for as long as he pleased; he should have his own flock of personal servants. Don’t even get me started on the “We don’t want people thinking our students drink alcohol” nonsense. What does that guy think UGA is for Christ’s sake, an institution of higher learning? It’s the home of the DAWGS. Beat it. Get lost, and don’t let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out. As for Richt, he’s a solid coach and a good recruiter, but I think he’s got too much on his plate right now. He needs to think about hiring an OC instead of calling his own plays, and a different DC because Martinez isn’t cutting it. That, along with another top 10 rec. class or two should get us back up in the thick of things.
Good article, Scalp; ‘preciate it. That overall points differential is hard to believe, isn’t it?
By ncscoots
November 8, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
Nam, organizations don’t draft with the same persepctive year after year. Every organization sees a drop in minor league quality in SOME area at some time, and tend to address that lack when drafting. A while back, the Braves saw a dearth of catching prospects in their organization, and bore down on selecting quality catching prospects in the draft (McCann-Salty-Pena-Sammons, etc.). It only stands to reason that pitching prospects they might otherwise have taken with those picks went to someone else, so it’s possible they missed some pitchers they liked (but what team doesn’t?). You simply can’t draft for every need in every draft and get high-quality prospects at every position every time, so you have to focus on system weaknesses, and for a very long time, pitching wasn’t a system weakness for the Braves. Only natural that their minor league pitching quality suffer a little (comparative to some other years when they were just loaded to the gills).
By kinley
November 8, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
Head Coach: I had heard Blanco’s name mentioned in the past, but didn’t know how serious of an option he was/is. In looking over his numbers, I can certainly understand why he’d be considered for the job.
The thing that jumps out at me, though, is the fact that he struck out 95 times between Mississippi and Richmond last season. 95 isn’t THAT high, but for a potential leadoff hitter it’s cause for a little concern.
As for Rajai Davis, he doesn’t impress me much, especially if we give up Thorman to get him.
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Robert, I was talking about Vince’s retirement as AD, not head coach (I assume that’s what Stinky meant too). Ga athletics under Dooley were the best in the nation across the board when you factor in football, basketball (especially women’s), tennis, diving, gymnastics, equestrian, etc. There was no reason whatsoever he should’ve been pushed out, other than a political power struggle. The guy isn’t senile yet. Of course the game has passed him by as a coach (he hasn’t been on the sidelines since ‘89), just like it has Bowden and Paterno. He went out on top, beating Michigan State in a major bowl game. I agree, Richt’ll be around for a while and that’s a good thing. Every major program needs a humbling season now and again.
By TennesseePaul
November 8, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
Hate to break up the football talk on the baseball blog, but the Padres dealt Rookie 2B Josh Barfield to the Indians for a reliever and a 3B. The Indians were the ones rumored to be looking at Marcus Giles. They just traded for a much younger and cheaper guy. Interestingly enough, it opens a spot on the Padres for a 2B. Maybe now Giles will be tossed into those rumors a little more.
By Scalp 'Em Braves
November 8, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
Scoots:
Good point about filling needs through the draft. During the Smoltz/Maddux/Glavine era, there was little chance for more than one or so pitchers to come up in any year. However, I wouldn’t say that the Braves exactly have a dearth of pitching in minors. Joey Devine, Chuck James, Kyle Davies, et al were developed, and though may not be fully matured at this point, certainly hold promise for the future. I still think Davies would benefit from Smotz’s sports shrink. He seems to be HOF material from the shoulders down and dead from the neck up. But, the Braves have not excelled solely with home grown pitching over the years. Maddux was a free agent, after all. I think we will always have to look outside to fill needs from time to time.
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
Sorry 10Paul; didn’t mean to offend you. I just haven’t had anything to add today baseball wise that someone else hasn’t already, other than my best wishes to Johnny Sain’s family. You may have noticed in the past though that the subjects on this blog tend to be pretty varied, sometimes even put forth by our esteemed blogmeister. In honnor of you, though I’ll put forth a little baseball trivia: Name the seven ways a baseball player can reach first without getting a hit.
By ncscoots
November 8, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
Scalp, I wouldn’t say the minors pitching cupboard is empty, either, certainly didn’t mean to imply that. Only that the depth is a little thinner than in previous years. Again, that may just be all perspective, since there were many years when the Braves seemed to have every top pitching prospect on the planet. It’s tough living among the little people after that, LOL.
By Scalp 'Em Braves
November 8, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
you stumped me Grinch - can only think of 5 right now - walk, error, hit by pitch, passed ball on 3rd strike and catcher interference. Think Think Think Think!!!
By Robert
November 8, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this
OK - I agree that as AD he was doing a good job and there wasnt real cause to push him out
The politcially correct thing results in so many ultimately incorrect actions/decisions doesnt it?
It could be worse. Look how bad things have gotten in Miami. They are losing games and now they are on the wrong end of the shootings as well
Miami defensive lineman Bryan Pata shot and killed
http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/9787476
By Vince Doiley
November 8, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
I love my new Champion outdoor room. If you like corn dogs, try Kahns’. Buy a Buick. Barbara loves Kroger - so do I. Get your car washed and vacuumed at the Athens Car Wash for $10 - just mention my name. I’m on the way to North Georgia Bank. Did I mention health insurance? Those are some good Lay’s potato chips.
By ncscoots
November 8, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
Certainly the stove should start sizzling with Giles’ name now. It’s hard to believe the Padres would deal a good young player such as Barfield without some plan in mind to replace him at second. Don’t think they have another 2B waiting in the minors, but I don’t follow their system much, either. Barfield was impressive as a rook, so Padres must believe they are good to go on the follow-through, whatever it may be. I sure don’t think they’re looking to sign Mark Loretta as a replacement!
By RC
November 8, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
Grinch, are they 1)walk 2)error 3)hit by pitch 4)passed ball on 3rd strike 5)catcher interference 6)fielder’s choice 7)balk w/ 3 balls?(which might count as a walk….)
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this
You’re gonna kick yourself, Scalp. Nobody else gonna give it a shot? I’ll wait a little longer before giving the answers (I got stumped on this one, too).
By TennesseePaul
November 8, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this
Grinch: Who’s offended? Maybe I was being sincere =) Besides, there isn’t much to do now but speculate or re-hash the same dead conversations that have been beaten around for the past few weeks. Next week the Hot Stove should start bubbling. In the mean time, it’s music and booze for me. And the occassional Vols game that I can see out here.
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
I’ll help out a little. An error is not listed as one of them. Catcher dropping a 3rd strike and a passed ball are seperate. That gives you six of seven, RC (balk isn’t one, either).
By RC
November 8, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
Ahh….Grinch, my first 6 remain the same, but change answer #7 to “runner inserted as pinch runner”
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this
And RC wins the contest! The grand prize is…uh…sincere congradulations! That’s the same one that got me. Now, since we have absolutely nothing else to do, here’s another one (not baseball related). Only three words in the English language start with the letters “Dw.” They are all common words. Name two of them.
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this
By the way, that “D” isn’t necc. a capital.
10Paul, I can never tell; some people seem to get really angry when one speaks of other things, as if this is a paysite or something and I’m breaking the rules.
By GM Wannabe
November 8, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
This weeks issue of sports weekly suggests 5 trades they would make: 1 Andruw to boston for Crisp Hansen and a center fielder Jacoby Elsbury 2. HoRam and Davies to Tampa for Carl Crawford. I know its just opinions of writers but they both sound like good trades for all involved.
By TennesseePaul
November 8, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this
Dwindle, Dwell, Dwarf,
By Lew
November 8, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this
Dweeb.
By Robert
November 8, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this
Dwonkey
:P
By Haywood Jablome
November 8, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this
The Andruw Jones to BoSox trade sounds o.k., but I’d rather the Sox keep Crisp and give us another pitcher. I mean, how many left-fielders do we need? I’m not a big Kyle Davies guy, but let’s wait and see how the kid does with an injury-free season (god willing) under his belt. As someone mentioned before, he’s got the tools…let’s just pray the lightbulb goes on next season.
By Tomahawkin
November 8, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this
Carl Crawford is da Truth, we need to seriously, find a way to get him here, beyond the big three, He maybe the best underrated all-around centerfielder in da game, we need Crawford now! pronto…
By GM Wannabe
November 8, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this
Haywood: Crisp would play center field and lead off. Crawford would hit third and Chipper fourth.
By KC
November 8, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this
How bout’ a little BRAVES TRIVIA…
NO CHEATING! Don’t look up the answers. Just off the top of your head, see how well you can do on these 3 questions:
1 - Who led the Braves in homeruns in 1989?
2 - What two players platooned behind the plate for the Braves in 1992?
3 - Who led the Braves in saves in 1998?
By Haywood Jablome
November 8, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this
GM, Where’s Elsbury gonna play? As for Crawford, you’re preachin’ to the choir my friend! But let’s face it, we can’t afford to let too many arms go and then face the prospect of Jason Shiell, et al, pitching a must-win game for us!
By kinley
November 8, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure these are right but I’ll give it a shot:
eh
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this
10Paul, you’re right. Hope you didn’t bust out the dictionary; Dwarf was the only one I could think of off the top of my head. Lew and Robert, you’re both a-holes. :-)
Thrashers are down 2-1 in the 2nd to turncoat Heatley’s Senators. This will not do.
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this
What famous North American landmark is constantly moving backwards? No, it isn’t the Braves franchise.
By Tomahawkin
November 8, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this
I take Kerry Ligtenberg in 98, and Rocker in 1999…
Grinch, I can’t watch hockey on TV I hafta watch it live to keep interest…
By kinley
November 8, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this
the statue of liberty?
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this
Kinley: no, but you’re in the right quadrant of the country.
T’hawkin’, I like it better live too, but TV’s better than nothing. Especially since they’re actually a good team this year. We may be witnessing something historic.
By David O'Brien
November 8, 2006 09:07 PM | Link to this
Talking to someone close to San Diego decision-makers, indicates to me they are mixed opinions in their front office about M. Giles. One, there’s the money and how much of a discount would he take to sign multi-year extension with hometown Padres. Two, the thing with having both brothers on the team; mixed opinions as to whether that’s necessarily a good thing. Three, his power numbers dropped off significantly, and that always raises eyebrows in a still-young guy.
I’m waiting for another callback from someone who might have better insight into this. But like some of you, first thing I thought when I saw that Barfield was traded was, they’re opening a spot for Marcus. But not so fast was the reaction I got.
Who knows who’s posturing, but I do know Padres are trying to pump up trade value for Linebrink, who’d be a logical guy for Braves to get as part of a Giles deal (whether they’d get anything more of value, I don’t know).
By Tomahawkin
November 8, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this
Grinch I guess Ur right…I hate this time of week, nuthin on but the Boring NBA and lastweeks football analysis…Can’t wait 4 college football Saturday, and Football all day Sunday…
By nathan
November 8, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this
Kinley
Niagra Falls!
Sorry dude. It was buggin me, so I looked it up! LOL
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this
Damn you guys, you’re not supposed to look it up. Yes, Niagra loses about 2 1/2 feet off its rim every year due to all the million gallons of water eroding it. I guess I’ll quit since y’all are gonna cheat. Ppptttthhhhptt!
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this
Thrashers pull it out, 5-4. they’re 12-3-3 now. It’s not just that they’re winning, but HOW they’re winning. They’re a legitimate team. Good stuff.
Name the only vegetable or fruit that is never sold frozen, canned, processed, cooked or in any other form except fresh.
By Stinky
November 8, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this
Did anyone read about Lonnie Smith’s ill will towards JS? He bought a gun after JS cut him in KC and almost went after him, feeling that Mr. Suspenders had blackballed him.
By mariner
November 8, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this
I read that about Lonnie. Couldn’t believe it, not sure what to make of it. Very wierd.
By flbravesgirl
November 8, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this
Lettuce?
Are you bored, Grinch? :-)
I was sorry to read of the passing of Johnny Sain. He had a great influence on the organization, not to mention his playing career.
Have y’all noticed how well-known people die in threes? 2 pitchers with Braves connections in the space of a few days. There will probably be a third soon.
By The Grinch
November 8, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this
Yes on two of three counts, FBG. Lettuce is the correct answer, and yes I’ve noticed that famous deaths tend to come in threes. No, I’m never bored. Trust me, if you were in my head you wouldn’t be either. :-)
By The Grinch
November 9, 2006 12:15 AM | Link to this
The Thrashers are atop their division and leading the NHL in points.
The Hawks are 3-1, with a gritty, convincing win in overtime against a good team.
The Dawgs must now beat Auburn and the Falcons do what they should and beat Cleveland. I will be happy.
What is the only fruit that has its seeds on the outside?
By Head Coach
November 9, 2006 03:08 AM | Link to this
Those Padres are on the ball. They traded a young stud 2B for another young stud 3B and a pitcher(Andrew Brown is a 6th round 1999 Braves draft pick) and if they trade Linebrink for Giles they end up with a 3B , 2B , pitcher for a 2B , pitcher. Thats a good days work in the trade department.
By Head Coach
November 9, 2006 04:03 AM | Link to this
Kinley , you got it backwards. Blanco had 95 walks in 2006 vs. 110 strikeouts in 520 at bats which is a very good ratio. You say understand why Blanco would be considered as a candidate for the leadoff hitter position but your not impressed with Rajai Davis ? Well , I usually don’t bring up a players name unless I know my stats and facts. Blanco and Davis both have six full minor league seasons and in doing a side by side comparison I found out that Davis actually has better numbers than Blanco and I’ll include Nook Logan since his name has come up in trade discussions. These are the following minor league stats for Logan age 26 - 7 years - 586 games - 2289 AB - 231 SB - 220 BB - 528 SO - .261 AVG - .325 OBP - .334 SLG - 659 OPS / Blanco age 22 - 6 years - 653 games - 2313 AB - 158 SB - 360 BB - 590 SO - .272 AVG - .374 OBP - .380 SLG - 754 OPS / Davis age 25 - 6 years - 572 games - 2209 AB - 224 SB - 225 BB - 318 SO - .303 AVG - .374 OBP - .402 SLG - 776 OPS…….So , there you have it. Davis 1 , Blanco 2 and Logan 3
By Bravo Nam
November 9, 2006 06:38 AM | Link to this
DOB
Two questions:
1). Is there another 2B that the Padres could have in mind other than Giles? I’m not sure the Padres have the money to play around with, but I wonder if they’d make a run at Soriano?
2). For months now there has been neverending discussion on this blog about bringing Carl Crawford to Atlanta. Have you heard any murmurings at all from the Front Office that would suggest they may make a run at him?
Thanks.
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this
Talking to someone close to San Diego decision-makers, indicates to me they are mixed opinions in their front office about M. Giles. One, there’s the money and how much of a discount would he take to sign multi-year extension with hometown Padres. Two, the thing with having both brothers on the team; mixed opinions as to whether that’s necessarily a good thing. Three, his power numbers dropped off significantly, and that always raises eyebrows in a still-young guy.
I don’t think it makes a whole lot of sense for the Pads to trade for Marcus Giles. They are probably going to have to give up Linebrink; and why would you give up one of the best setup men in the game for a guy who you may only have for one year or who you are going to have to pay a good chunk of change to in the near future?
That said, if healthy Giles may be the best secondbaseman in the NL. But I think the Braves realize this and know they likely aren’t going to get the type of players Giles is worth in any deal.
I would guess injuries had a lot to do with Giles’s sub par year. I would prefer to see the Braves hold on to Giles unless they can get Linebrink and a good young player (around 25 or younger), which I don’t think is going to happen. Like I said, Giles may be the most talented 2B in the NL and the only reason he wasn’t among the best in 2006 is injury.
By Robert
November 9, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this
The strawberry
By Troy
November 9, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this
I love Giles, but Chase Utley is by far the best 2B in the NL.
By KC
November 9, 2006 08:23 AM | Link to this
Shuan:
Injury may have played some part, but his discomfort with the leadoff role seemed to keep his first half numbers way down. I that adjustment period accounted for more of his struggles than anything else.
That said, I agree with you that Giles is one of the better 2nd baseman in the league. Linebrink would probably be worth it given that we would gain a proven setup man, save a few million, and give some of our young talent some air.
It would also be worth trading Giles to free up salary space for a true leadoff hitter. But if we don’t get either a proven setup man, a leadoff guy in return, or a top-notch prospect(s), I too would like to see the Braves keep Giles around.
By KC
November 9, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this
I threw a few trivia questions out lastnight…
1 - Who led the Braves in homeruns in 1989?
2 - What two players platooned behind the plate for the Braves in 1992?
3 - Who led the Braves in saves in 1998?
The answers are:
1 - Lonnie Smith
2 - Greg Olsen/Damon Berryhill
3 - Kerry Lightnberg
By Dennis
November 9, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this
DOB
My thought is that Linebrink might come over but the Braves may have to part with someone like Horam. He is a California guy and could give their starting rotation alift with the big ballpark. The dollars would also work out better as well. The Padres have several options including bringing back Mark Lorreta who is a free agent.Getting Linebrink who is a year away from free agency is a good move. With A Jones free agency 1 year away the Braves would have the money to sign him. I hope we are able to trade him to San Diego.
What are your thoughts on getting additional or better starting pitching?
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this
KC,
Another reason to be optimistic about ‘07: Giles should be significantly better. Other reasons: pitching should be better and every regular should be about the same as or better than they were in ‘06.
By KC
November 9, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this
Marcus Giles makes perfect sense for San Diego for 3 reasons:
1 - When he’s healthy (and I would add – when he’s hitting 2nd in the lineup), he’s one of the better 2nd basemen in the game.** Shaun is absolutely right about that. Yes, he had an off year… but there’s a reason why he was named to the all-star team twice over the last 4 years.
This guy is a perennial .300 hitter. 2006 was an aberration. Look at his averages over the last 3 years (2003-2005) .316, .311, .291. In a typical year, Giles will hit .300, give you 15-20 homers, 60-70 RBI (from the #2 slot), 40-50 doubles, he’ll score 100 runs (assuming there’s anyone worth a darn hitting behind him of course), play an excellent 2nd base, and he’ll even throw in 15 or so stolen bases. The Padres need offense, and Marcus Giles can help.
2 – Marcus would seem to be a perfect fit in San Deigo. He’s a gap hitter, and Petco Park has more real-estate in their outfield than any other park in the league (except for Coors Field). If you look at a diagram of Petco Park, it’s one of those parks with a truly diamond shaped field. It actually has corners in the left-center and right-center field alleys. Petco is 402 to left-center and 411 to right-center. Compare that to Turner Field’s gap dimensions… 380 to left-center and 390 to right-center (Keep in mind, it’s not like Turner Field has a small outfield). You just can’t design a park any better suited to a gap hitter like Marcus.
Aside from the playing field, Marcus should feel comfortable remaining in the NL, playing in SD, and playing alongside his brother… and comfort certainly plays a big role in a player’s production.
3 – There’s every reason to believe that Giles will re-signable for SD. If he was willing to change positions to go to San Diego (and he was), then you’ve got to figure that he’ll be easy to work with. I’m sure SD looks far and away like the best option (next to staying in ATL) for Marcus Giles. Again, he gets a chance to go home, play in a beautiful park and city in a great climate, and play with his brother… for at least 1-2 seasons.
I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing the Braves keep him around, but I’m not sure there’s a more perfect (on paper anyway) situation for Marcus Giles than San Deigo. If a Giles-Linebrink trade does happen, I would look for a very good season from Marcus next year with the “Pads”.
By luke
November 9, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this
**marcus giles, horacio ramirez, and salty for jake peavy, linebrink, and a prospect.
By KC
November 9, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this
Shaun: I still think it’s more likely than not that Giles will be traded, but if he stays… I agree, he’ll have a much better season.
As for the other factors, I agree there as well.
I think the Braves bullpen (assuming the acquisition of a proven setup man) will be among the best in the league next year. McBride and Yates really started to come into their own by season’s end. Wickman is still one of the best, and Paronto and Villareal should both fit their roles next year nicely (the ground-ball double-play guy in Paronto’s case, and long-relief for Villareal). Blaine Boyer could also play an important role… we’ll see. Add a proven setup man into the mix, and this bullpen looks awfully solid.
The rotation looks extremely promising to me as well, mainly because I feel better about Hudson and Hampton than some of my fellow bloggers here.
Based on the fact that Hudson’s only 30, hasn’t lost anything on his stuff, and the fact that historically, most pitchers of Huddy’s caliber bounce right back from a bad season like his ’06 effort… I’d say there’s a 75% chance that Hudson has a good season this year (which I define as at least 15 or so wins, and an ERA in the mid-3.00’s or lower).
Also, given the fact that Hampton will have had the full 18 month recovery time (from Tommy John surgery), he shouldn’t experience any problems there. Statistically, there’s only a 10% chance of experiencing any (related) arm trouble after the 18 month mark. Hampton will probably have to shake off a little rust, but he’ll be fine.
If Hudson bounces back (and I think he will), then once Hampton gets a feel for the ball and re-acclimates to the game… the Braves will have a bona fide “Big 3” atop their rotation once again. Add a couple of excellent young lefties in Chuck James and HoRam, and this rotation looks damn good to me.
The offense was already the best in the NL last year, so I’m not particularly concerned about that. If we can get a leadoff hitter… GREAT! If not, no worries. The defense is also solid.
All in all, I’d say the Braves chances of making some noise in ’07 are excellent.
By Dgrvly
November 9, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this
This morning my favorite pitcher of all-time and most exciting was released from prison, the Doctor, Dwight Gooden. I think people forget how much talent he really had. At age 20 in 1985 he went 24-4, with a 1.53 ERA. I’m not sure if I want Glavine to return to the Mets, I heard once when gets his 300th win, he’ll retire. It sounds like he’s more in it for himself, then the team. Lets Go Mets! The 2006 NL East champs!
By KC
November 9, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this
Luke:
As a Braves fan, I would certainly be in favor of the trade you purposed, but it will never happen… mainly because it would a little lopsided (in the Braves favor).
Giles for Linebrink might be a straight up exchange, but you’re looking at Horacio Ramirez for Peavy and a prospect.
I’m a big believer in HoRam, but he hasn’t proven enough to be worthy of a straight up trade for a guy like Peavy, let alone Peavy and a prospect. We’d likely have to give them HoRam and Kyle Davies for them to consider such a deal (and forget about them throwing in a prospect in that scenario).
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this
KC,
I don’t know. If San Diego can have a window to work out an extension with Giles at a discount, I think a deal makes sense for them. But I don’t know why they would want to give up talent for a guy that could be due for a big raise after this season. I read a quote from Kevin Towers that the reason they traded Barfield was because secondbasemen are relatively easy to find. That could mean they are very seriously looking at Giles or it could mean they would use a cheaper, possibly younger option.
Either way I look for a big season from Giles.
By KC
November 9, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this
Dgrvly:
If there’s a reason to not want Tom Glavine back, it should be because the Mets are about to give 24 million to a guy in his 40’s who finished the season with an ERA of close to 4.00 (not bad by today’s standards… but great either. Certainly no 12 million a year good.)
I think that’s the reason I wouldn’t want Tom Glavine back if I were the Mets… but as for Tom Glavine’s character, desire to win, or his team orientation, I don’t think you’ll hear anything bad about him from his teammates (past or present).
By KC
November 9, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
Shaun:
I don’t know that Giles is in line for a big pay raise after this season. He’ll already be making 5 million or so on ‘07. I think there’s a good chance that the Padres could trade for him, and then avoid arbitration by signing him to a 2 year-13 million, or a 3 year 21 million dollar deal.
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this
KC,
I pretty much agree about Hudson. He’s probably not going to be a Cy Young contender again but he’ll give you a decent amount of okay innings and there is value in that—he will save the bullpen and, with the Braves’ high-scoring offense, should give the team a chance to win in many of his outings.
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this
KC,
I guess it just depends on how much a secondbaseman is worth to the Pads. Judging by Towers comments, they don’t really want to spend too much on a secondbaseman because decent, cheap ones are relatively easy to find either in the minors or off the scrap heap—you can find a decent one that would come a lot cheaper than Giles. But that’s just my somewhat educated guess judging from Towers’s comments about the Barfield trade. It probably also depends how much production San Diego feels they will be getting from other positions.
By KC
November 9, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this
Shaun:
I think Huddy’s still got it in him to be a CY Young contender again, though I’m not betting on it. I definitely don’t think it’s hoping for too much by any means to look for him to win 15-20 games and post an ERA in the low-mid 3.00 range.
By KC
November 9, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
Shaun:
2nd basemen may be a dime a dozen, but 2nd baseman who can hit .300 with 15-20 homers, 60-70 RBI from the #2 slot, 50 doubles (especially in Petco), score 100 runs, and play a great 2nd base… aren’t exactly easy to find.
If you go after Giles, you do it because of what he brings to your lineup, not because of what position he plays.
By nathan
November 9, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this
Anybody out there read the story on foxsports.com (I suppose it’s on all of them by now), about Sheffield ragging on Cashman and Abreu?
What a JACKA$$!!!!
Here’s some bits and pieces:
He also said that if the Yankees let him go they’d regret it when they faced him down the road. “Everyone knows when I go to another team I’m going to come back looking for you.”
*Yup, that’s right JACKA$$, we know ALL ABOUT you pssing and moaning about how you hate the former teams that you were “SO EXCITED” to join seemingly only months before throwing your little fits.
Sheffield also had some thoughts on Bobby Abreu, who replaced him in the outfield after a midseason trade from Philadelphia. “He’s a good player, but you can draw it up any kind of way, he ain’t me,” Sheffield told the paper.
Oh, where to begin?
Hmmmmm, Yup! You’re right Gary. He’s NOT you. He stays healthy, and in the lineup. He doesn’t whine (at least not publically about EVERYTHING that doesn’t go his way. Maybe Sheffield should BUY HIS OWN TEAM. Then he could give himself a LIFETIME 750 billion dollar contract. (I’m sure still find some way to claim the owner was “out to get him.”). In fact, his uncle just recently got out of prison. Maybe they could start a team together. They could call their new team: The LOSERS. One part addict, one part crybaby…..together they make ONE BIG PAIR OF JACKA$$ES! Next thing you know, Sheff is going to claim that Torre, Cashman and the Boss are racist. Don’t laugh, it’s probably a little nugget of info deep inside, that his PEABRAIN hasn’t quite processed yet…………………
JACKA$$!!!!!
btw: here are some post season stats for the Sheff to ponder, because he’s right….Abreu ISN’T Gary Sheffield. In fact he’s not even CLOSE. To be honest with you, judging by these stats, I’d most definitely have Abreu OVER Sheffield. Anyways, check these out:
Abreu this year vs. Detroit:
4 games, 15 AB’s, 5 hits (.333 BA), 2 BB, which lead to .412 OBP, O HR, 4 RBI
Here’s Mr. “Bobby Abreu isn’t me” Sheffield’s stats vs. Detroit:
3 games, 12 AB’s, 1 hit, (.083 BA), 0 BB, which lead to .083 OBP, 0 HR, 1 RBI
Not to pile on the guy, and surely like we all could EVER forget his subperb postseason’s with Atlanta but - no wait, OF COURSE I mean to pile on! Here are his ATL postseason stats:
9 games, 30 AB’s, 3 hits, (.100 BA),9 BB’s, 1 HBP (too bad he didn’t get hit by this pitch in his MOUTH, then we wouldn’t have to listen to him talk ever again.),which lead to .325 OBP, 1 HR and 2 FRICKIN’ RBI. Nice job buddy.
Sorry to ramble (not really, LOL!), but that man has some SERIOUS issues, IMO!
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this
KC,
Other factors besides just production always have to be considered. Things like position, salary and what you are getting from other positions matter. It doesn’t really make sense to acquire Giles if you can find a secondbaseman with three quarters of his production for a quarter of the price. But it may make sense if you feel Giles is going to be one of the most productive 2B in the league (which I think he’ll be) and you aren’t getting as much production from the positions you need production from (the corner positions, basically).
By nathan
November 9, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this
KC
At this point, I’d rather pay 12 million a year for Glavine than the 6 million we are paying for Hudson. That’s not to say Hudson can’t rebound and Glavine couldn’t drop off considerably (not likely, IMO - on either accounts), not to mention, seeing Glavine win his 300th, in a Braves uniform. I know a lot of people were p*ssed at him during the strike, and for leaving for a “few” more dollars with the Mets. But come on, (check out my LAST post - if you wanna talk about crybabies), for one, WE DESERVE - as does Tom - to win that 300th for the Atlanta Braves. Also, think about it people, there may NEVER be a 300 game winner again. Could be looking at history in more way than one.
But, having said that….I don’t know if we NEED Tom Glavine. Maybe for me personably it’s more “want” as a fan of Braves History and just to make it right. Not neccesarily because the 2007 Atlanta Braves NEED Tom to win. (but it sure wouldn’t hurt their chances.) On the same kinda topic, I (as a BASEBALL) fan, think if Roger Clemens pitches this year, Selig should DEMAND that it be for the Red Sox! LOL!….just to complete the “circle” of his career. That would be kinda neat, from where I’m sitting.
By nathan
November 9, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
shaun
Things like position, salary and what you are getting from other positions matter.
It’s a very GOOD point. Somtimes people don’t take into consider what you’re getting elswhere on the roster. For instance, MOST people believe that the Corner infield and Corner outfield spots should provide POWER to the lineup. I can live with that.
But let’s say for example a team has Catcher (a position that most teams want adequate power, but much more defense out of), that has a LOT of power (Piazza, Javy Lopez in years past, or even what Brian McCann will more than likely become). IMO, that allows a team to go with a “lesser” player, or an all defensive player (rafiel belliard), at other positions. Another example would be Arod. The guy put up MONSTER number from the SS position, but essentially nothing more than above average to good numbers from the 3B position. When Arod was with Seattle and Texas, they could afford to have one of the “positions of power” not be as productive, because they were getting MUCH more than most if not ALL teams were getting from their SS. Not to mention the guy was pretty good defensively as well, so it’s not like Piazza or Javy, where they were “sacrificing” another area.
To get to my point. Yes, Marcus puts up VERY good (when healthy) numbers for 2B. Hell, with all those doubles, if he was hitting 3rd or 5th in the order he’d probably be a 100 RBI guy. But IMO, since we DO have McCann, LaRoche seems to be ready to take his game to another level, Francouer is only going to get better (I hope), we don’t really need OFFENSE from our 2B. And who’s to say somebody like Prado or Aybar won’t be every bit as good as Giles? We won’t know until we see. Veterans (which basically is what Giles is) lose their jobs all of the time to younger, faster, healthier and most importantly CHEAPER players. It’s not that I don’t appreciate what Giles has done, especially the EFFORT he gives at all times. But unfortunately we need the payroll flexibility and with a glut of young middle infielders in our system, he’s at a position of depth, if not strength for us. WE NEED PITCHING! If trading Giles downgrades our offense, but upgrades what COST us the Playoffs and Division last year….I’m ALL FOR IT!
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
nathan,
I agree with almost everything you said. But ARod has put up good numbers even for a thirdbaseman. (Just nitpicking because, you know me, I enjoy debating.)
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
nathan,
Also, I don’t know if a team would give up quality pitching for maybe only one year of Giles. Maybe a team with extra pitching like Detroit will look to upgrade at 2B.
By Haywood Jablome
November 9, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this
Nathan, Deep breath….and exhale! Gary Sheffield always has been and always will be a “me-first” crybaby, cut from the exact same mold as Barry Bonds. To hear him say that the Yankees made him feel “insecure” is really funny and also pretty sad. What is this guy’s problem? Did his mommy hug him too much as a child, or not enough? I don’t know and I definitely don’t care! I just glad he’s someone else’s headache right now.
By KC
November 9, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
nathan:
If you’ve read any of my posts, then you probably already know that I’m going to disagree with this statement. I think chances are the Hudson will look the top-of-the-rotation starter he is in ‘07. I’d also heavily wager that Hudson puts up better numbers than Glavine next season, despite making half of what Glavine will in ‘07.
By nathan
November 9, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this
shaun
You are right about Arod. I’m starting to sound like the NY media. But honestly, I think they are on him for his postseason failures, more than his regular season stats, IMO. Not to mention his D, doesn’t seem to be as stellar as it was in years past.
As far as “what we get” in a trade for Giles, I agree. Not sure what anybody is willing to give up for him. But for me it’s more of a salary dump than anything. Sad to say that with a comodity like Giles we would just “dump” him. But having said that, if dumping his salary allows us to trade sombody else or just sign a free agent, that right now is out of our budget. I say go for it. Maybe at the winter meetings, JS will work out a 3 way trade involving Giles. JS always seems to find “creative” ways to fill holes. It’s too bad with attendance going up the last couple of years with the youth movement, that management/ownership doesn’t just allow a 5-10 million dollar payroll increase. That might solve it all. Meaning, allowing us to KEEP Giles for one more year and go “shopping”. But we all know that’s NOT going to happen. So whatever JS does, as long as it improves the TEAM, I trust him to do what’s right. Even if that means a fan favorite (or more) have to be moved for us to gain overall talent. Kind of a 1 step back - 2 steps forward type of deal.
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this
KC,
I think Hudson’s a solid number 3 or 4 starter. And I think there’s about a 50/50 shot Hudson will put up better numbers than Glavine because Hudson is not as bad as he looked in ‘06 and because Glavine is old and he’s got to slow down at some point.
Hudson is a grinder that is going to give you a lot of solid innings, which is very valuable. But I don’t think he’ll be one of the top 10 starters in the league.
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this
nathan,
I don’t think the Braves should trade Giles in a salary-dump move, i.e., trade him for less than he’s worth. I think if they are going to do that, they may as well just play out the season with him; he should have a big season if he’s healthy.
By nathan
November 9, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
Haywood Jablome
I just glad he’s someone else’s headache right now.
AMEN to that!
KC
I can live with that. I sure hope so. I LIKE Tim Hudson. He has that fire that, quite honestly, other than Smoltz has been missing around here for quite some time. Having said that, as you probably know from reading my posts, I think keeping Hudson IS A HUGE RISK for us. Because if he doesn’t “return to form” next season, there is ZERO CHANCE we’ll be able to rid ourselves of that contract, with the increase of his pay after next year.
And even in the event he does return to form, at the price he’ll be at after next year (along with our payroll issues), if we want any chance at retaining Andruw (this could be up for debate as well - due to payroll), Hudson may STILL be too expensive for us even if he is back to Cy Young form.
Again, if you’ve read my posts, I’m a BIG believer in youth movement and letting the young guys play. Now I realize that back in 1991 we were spoiled with 3 VERY GOOD (with a ton of UPSIDE) pitchers from our system (Glavine, Avery, Smoltz - not our draft pick, but in our system none the less), that we “leaned” on to take the next step. I also, realize that HoRam, Davies and Chucky might not be the next wave comparable to that trio (who is?). But say for example we WOULDN’T have “gone with” our young guys, and just spent money on free agents and trades, my how our “destiny” might have been different.
I just feel, that somtimes you have to go with what you got in your system, find out what they’re made of and then “add” the neccesary parts to take it to the next level. Just like JS did after 1990. We had 3 GOOD young pitchers who hadn’t put it all together yet, but had shown signs of being good (Davies, HoRam, James etc…), let them develop, and when the time was right, signed the neccesary ingredients (Leibrandt, Bream, Pendleton, Belliard, Nixon) to jump to the next level. Not to mention that our youth on offense (Francoeur, McCann, LaRoche) resemples the trio of Gant, Justice and Lemke. Good foundation for the future, IMO.
I just think that we’ll continue to tread water, until we “clean up” the payroll and “start over” per say.
Of course doing so, would require us to “suffer” through a year, maybe two of mediocrity. I as a fan, am willing to deal with that, ANY day of the week and twice on Sunday, as opposed to watching OVERPRICED veterans not get the job done.
But having said that, (LOL!), this team isn’t THAT far off (as long as JS pulls the right strings and Hudson steps it up) from being a BIG factor next season. So the drastic transformation isn’t completely neccessary. Stay tuned, coming to a “theater” soon…………
I guess, we’ll find out soon enough what JS has in mind.
By Paul
November 9, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
Hey Dave, if Giles is traded…would the braves consider trying Escobar at second base? (if hes not traded or if the organization thinks hes ready) I agree with you KC that the braves are going to be a huge factor next year. With some minor tweaks this off season I think the braves could go a long way next year.
By KC
November 9, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
Haywood: I agree with you that keeping Hudson is a risk. The question is… is it a good risk?
I think it is. As I mentioned, I lay 3-1 odds on Hudson turning in a good season next year. We’ll just have to wait and see if the Braves’ front office agrees with me or not. If the Braves want to trade him, there WILL be takers. We can unload him right now if we choose to. We probably wouldn’t get all that much in return for him after a season like this on the front end of a significant contract, but there are pitching desperate teams with money that would be more than willing to bet that 2006 was an aberration for Huddy.
If the Braves are at least 75% sure, as I am, that Hudson will return to form (I don’t necessarily mean CY Young form, but top-tier form nonetheless), then they’ll keep him. If not, he could be wearing pinstripes or another uniform of some sort next year.
Ultimately, I think the Braves have not lost confidence in him, and it’s highly unlikely that he’ll be traded this winter.
By nathan
November 9, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
shuan
I don’t think the Braves should trade Giles in a salary-dump move, i.e., trade him for less than he’s worth. I think if they are going to do that, they may as well just play out the season with him; he should have a big season if he’s healthy.
So you are ABSOLUTELY against “dumping” Giles if we have an adequate replacement at 2B, even if that said “dump” allows us to improve the pithcing staff, which IMO, was the sole reason for our failures, last year?
I’m not saying you’re not entitled to your opinion, I just completely DISAGREE with it. No matter how much I like Giles (and I do), if he is the only contract on the team that will allow us to free up the neccessary cash to improve the pitching, then IT HAS TO BE DONE.
Now in the same breath, I’ve been saying with the Starting pitching and everyday positions going with youth. The same could be said for the bullpen. Who knows? Maybe the pieces of the puzzle for the bullpen are ALREADY in our system also.
If I were JS (first of all I’d stop wearing suspenders! LOL!), I’d clear as much payroll as possible without gutting the team. Go with youth to start the season, and “fix” the problems as needed via trades. Having cleared payroll would allow said moves. If we hang on to Giles and he starts the season poorly, not only will we need a different 2B, he will be less movable than he is right now. NOW IS THE TIME TO DO IT. Just like last offseason was the time to fix the closer’s roll. Not at the end of July when it was too late.
Again, I’ll repeat, if our payroll wasn’t STUCK at the cap of 80 million and we didn’t have 4 or 5 guys taking up 60-70 percent of that number, Giles wouldn’t even be an issue. We’d hang on to him, AND make the neccessary “upgrades” to our roster. Then if he got off to a slow start, we’d bring up a kid (same as was done to Quilvio Veras to make room for Giles a few years back), and if that didn’t work, JS would swing a deal for a veteran to help for the short term. But THIS ISN’T 1993 anymore, JS doesn’t have that option. So he has to be darn near perfect in his decision making process over the winter or we’re doomed. He isn’t always going to catch lightening in a bottle like he did when Francoeur came up.
Now to switch to a gear I cranked last week. I’m also not neccessarily against moving Renteria instead of Giles. It seems to me that all of our “top prospects” that are middle infielders are SS, not 2B. And nobody (Bobby, JS) can seem to “guess” whether these guys (Prado, Escobar, Aybar, Pena, Andrus) can play 2B. So why not keep Giles (just as good of a number 2 hitter - when healthy - as Renteria), plus he’s younger, a fan favorite and “one of our own” guys we developed. IMO, rather than bring up a young guy and play them out of position (Klesko, Chipper), why not bring up a kid and PLAY HIM WHERE HE’S USED TO PLAYING?
Maybe I’m on Crack! But it seems to me, that too many of you want to go with the “if it aint broke, don’t fix it” mentallity. Well I’ve got news for you……It is broke and WE DO NEED TO FIX IT. And we have limited options where we can “trim” payroll to improve the other (more important) areas.
That’s all I’m saying.
By Tom
November 9, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this
Would you trade Giles if it were not about $$$? After the year he had he will not get a huge payday. I think you get Ryan Freel from the Reds. Let him play LF and lead off and hit Giles second. Then pray Chipper stays healthy and Andruw has a MVP FA walk year like Lopez did.
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
Tom, the year he had was more than enough to get a good raise in arbitration, especially since he’s a fifth-year arbitration guy. It’s just the way the system works, for better or worse.
As a fifth-year arbitration guy, his salary, if it went all the way to the arbitration panel, could be set by comparing him against all top-paid players at his position, not just those with similar service time. It’s different than it is for other arbitration-eligible guys, whose salary is set by comparing him to others with similar service _ three-year service guys are compared to other three-year service guys, two-year guys to other two-year guys, etc. For fifth-year (final year of arbitration) guys, it’s different.
He’ll make between $5-6 mill unless he signs a multi-year extension for less per year at the front end and more at the back.
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this
Paul, yes they would at least consider Escobar for 2B, I can say with near certainty.
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this
nathan,
I agree with you to a certain extent—trade Giles if he can help the team. But I don’t think it would be good to trade Giles to just dump his salary (i.e., trade him for much less than his value).
Sure the Braves have some adequate replacements, but I think Giles will be one of the top 2B in the league. Unless you can get a player/players who can produce/prevent as many runs as Giles does, I don’t think you trade him.
You could make the argument that the Braves could trade Giles in a salary dump move and use that money to improve the pitching staff, but how? There are no great pitchers on the free agent market. If you are trading him just for a salary dump (as opposed to trading him for close to equal value), you may as well just let him play out the season.
To sum up, here are my views: Trade Giles only if the Braves get players worth as many runs/fewer runs again. Don’t trade him just for the sake of getting rid of his salary.
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
Tom,
I don’t think the Reds would give up Freel. He’s very valuable to them; he probably wouldn’t be worth what the Braves would have to give up.
Would I trade Giles if it weren’t about the money? If I’m the GM, depends on who I got. I know Giles is one of the best 2B in the game when healthy so it would take a lot to get him. Because of his contract situation, I would take less, but I would still have to get some solid players in return. He still has one more year left for me and I’m expecting it to be a very good one.
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this
KC, interesting that you point out how well-suited Petco Park and Coors Field are for Marcus. While I agree in theory _ wide expanses perfect for gap hitter _ those happen to be two of the places where he’s had his least success.
He’s hit .221 with 17 doubles and ZERO homers (tough to do) and a .667 OPS in 77 at-bats at Coors, and .209 with one double, zero homers and a .510 OPS in 10 games (43 at-bats) at Petco.
The NL West parks in general haven’t been good for him _ he’s hit .227 with no extra-base hits and a .585 OPS at Arizona (formerly Bank One Ballpark, now Chase Field).
By nathan
November 9, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
Tom
Would you trade Giles if it were not about $$$?
I think I’ve stated (in fact OVERSTATED) that if this was the Braves of old (Ted Turner’s checkbook), that NO, NO, NO, NO You keep Giles and continue to “stock” the shelves with good, possibly expensive players.
But that isn’t the case anymore is it? It is about the money. It about possibly haveing somebody cost as little as 15 percent (give or take) as much as Giles and possibly perform at the level he’s been at. If it weren’t about money, we’d Keep Giles, Andruw would already be signed to an extension, JS would probably bid (if not overbid) on the Japanese pitcher (keep forgetting his name), most of all, more than likely would’ve severely OVERPAID for the likes of somebody like Billy Wagner last year.
So I’ll turn the question around on you. Are you naive enough to think EVERYTHING JS has done in the last 5 years HASN’T been about the money? I’d be willing to be my right maplenut that if JS had an “open checkbook” that BOTH, Maddux and Glavine would STILL be here…possibly even Millwood.
By nathan
November 9, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
shaun
Clearing payroll, doesn’t mean that we have to spend that money on Free Agents. JS is free to use it how he likes. That’s where the trades come in.
Say for instance SD wants Giles. But don’t want to give up pitching for him, but say (just an example) Tampa Bay has a pitcher they’re willing to give up because he’s too expensive for their budget, but has no need for a 2B, but would LOVE to have a young catcher (again - just an example). JS could trade Giles to SD for little or nothing to free up cash, and turn around and trade Salty to Tampa for said pitcher, which we now could afford by ridding ourselves of Giles contract. Not “dumping” Giles because we don’t like him or still can’t use him. It’s the ONLY contract that is movable.
In reality, when was the last time JS spent ANY money on a BIG TIME free agent? Galarraga? That was in 1998. I might be forgetting somebody, buy almost ALL of our aquisitions (including ones we signed to extensions: Hudson) were via trades.
By KC
November 9, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
DOB:
I mentioned Coors simply as being the only field (I’m pretty sure) with larger outfield alley dimensions in the NL. I actually wasn’t suggesting that Coors is perfectly for suited to Marcus, just Petco. Actually, given the fact that most of Giles’ homers are line drives with lots of top-spin that barely sneak over the fence… it doesn’t surprise me that he doesn’t have any homers in Denver. When he hits a fly ball, it typically doesn’t have enough elevation to take advantage of the thin air up there.
I will have to say that the numbers you quoted on Giles at Coors field do lend to the point I was making about large alleys being doubles-friendly. 17 doubles is an awful lot for 77 at-bats. That comes out to one double every 4.5 at-bats. If you project that out to 550 at-bats, that would be 121 doubles. You mentioned that he has a .221 career average at Coors (which does seem a bit low for anyone at Coors) but… 17 for 77 is .221 average. It sounds like every hit he’s ever had at Coors field was a double. Could that be right??
Anyway, you bring up a good point in regard to Petco Park. However, I wouldn’t build a case on 10 games there, particularly when 1/3 of his career AB’s at Petco came earlier this season when he was struggling everywhere, at home and on the road.
By MGL
November 9, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
Interesting article, Padres did not free up second for Giles ..http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/10277755/detail.html
By Troy
November 9, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Just to throw this out there, http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ is reporting that the Padres are very interested in Soriano, and they do have the big bucks to spend, don’t know if they would want him to play OF or 2B (where he has said he prefers, although his 06’ numbers may have changed his mind) anyway that move may or may not affect whether or not the Padres are still interested in Giles. I don’t know for sure just reporting what I hear.
By Robert
November 9, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
“But having said that, (LOL!), this team isn’t THAT far off (as long as JS pulls the right strings”
Only one string needs pulling - cutting rather.
JS will never do it
By Troy
November 9, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
Here’s a new look to the possible Giles trade (If we do in fact trade him) while I do agree that Linebrink would be a great pickup a proven quality set-up guy but how about we try to steal away so younger cheaper talent:
Giles for Cla Meredith & Ben Johnson
both guys make the minimum while Linebrink makes about $2 million, granted I doubt this will happen because Meredith was so effective last year and he is in fact so cheap, but its nice to dream because a deal like that would fill two needs Ben Johnson is a good young OF with speed.
By nathan
November 9, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this
nice find, MGL.
Interesting. Speaking of guys that would shine in that park. Soriano’s HR’s might drop to around 25-30 but he might hit 65-70 doubles. LOL! Probably not, but…
DOB
Are you seriously saying that Giles has never had ANYTHING but doubles at Coors Field? Not that I question you, but that seems REALLY ODD.
By nathan
November 9, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this
Robert
Coming from you, I assume the proper response should be:
Hee Haw?
By KC
November 9, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
TOM:
Have you been watching the same team and the same front office that I have over the last 16 years???
Under John Shuerholz, I cannot think of a single instance in which the Braves were the top bidder for a big free agent. Shuerholz has always had an aversion for overpaying players. Recent evidence of that was the fact that the Braves didn’t sign a closer coming into this season. We had an opportunities to sign Todd Jones, Bob Wickman, and probably one or two other closers that would have been affordable for Atlanta, but again… JS does not feel it’s prudent to overpay. Wickman almost did sign with Atlanta last winter, and if the Braves had put a 2 year 13-14 million deal on the table back then, the Braves would have won the Wild Card this year. If he had it to do over, knowing what he knows now, I’m sure JS would have made that offer to Wickman prior to last season. But at the time it seemed like frivolous spending to raise the offer enough to pry him away from the Indians. The Braves don’t overpay. They never have.
There may have been a few that turned out to be overpaid (by underperforming), but none of those players… and there really weren’t all that many… were overpaid by the Braves at the time they signed. When the Braves had the money to go after big free agents, they always put an offer on table commensurate to market value. They always made a fair offer, but never the highest offer.
Here’s a funny story from Shuerholz’s book to illustrate the fiscal restraint JS has always displayed. One winter when Braves SS Jeff Blauser was eligible for free agency, some sports reporter asked Shuerholz if the Braves would re-sign Blauser. He responded by saying something to the effect of (and I’m heavily paraphrasing here… my memory’s not that great) “Well, we would certainly love to keep him here, and we’re going to try to do that as much as the budget will allow”. Not long after that, Shuerholz got a call from Ted Turner that went something like this:
JS answers phone…
Ted: John… Ted.
JS: Hello Ted!
Ted: Hey, what’s this sh!t I hear about the budget?! If you want to sign Jeff Blauser, sign him!
Shuerholz has always leaned toward fiscal sanity, no matter the budget. If you think that if JS still had Ted’s pocket book that he would be out there trying to outgun the Yankees for a ridiculously overpriced Japanese player or anyone else… you just haven’t been paying attention over the last 16 years.
By Robert
November 9, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
“If trading Giles downgrades our offense, but upgrades what COST us the Playoffs and Division last year….I’m ALL FOR IT!”
Cool - Let’s offer the Padres Giles for Bud Black
By Shaun
November 9, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
nathan,
Good point. But I still think it would be a waste to just give Giles away in a salary dump move. He’s still under contract for one more year and should be one of the better 2B in the league for that one year. Yeah, if the Braves can get players that would improve next year’s team more than what just Giles could do or if they can get one of the top 20-30 prospects in the game, sure we should trade him.
By Robert
November 9, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
Hey - if we’re looking for cheap free agents, I think that as of today Dwight Gooden is available
By KC
November 9, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
ROBERT:
PLEEEEEASE don’t give me that crap.
Unless Bobby Cox was slipping muscle relaxers into Hudson’s coffee prior to his starts, made phone calls to every available closer last winter to urge them not to come to Atlanta, or used voodoo dolls to curse and strategically disable Mike Hampton, John Thompson, Kyle Davies, Horacio Ramirez, Blaine Boyer, and John Foster… told Francoeur to swing at everything between on-deck circles early in the season, and told guys like Jorge Sosa to aim 3 feet higher than wherever the catcher put the glove…
Bobby Cox was not to blame for the struggles of this team which he led to the post-season 14 straight years. Get real.
By KC
November 9, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
Robert:
Gooden would be a good pickup. Also, Jeff Reardon was acquitted so he might be available. And I hear Daryl Strawberry’s not under contract anywhere. LOL!
By Head Coach
November 9, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
KC , you could not be more wrong if you tried. Cox was directly responsible for Reitsma closing even after he stunk , starting Sosa for 13 games , going with Remlinger out of spring training, keeping Giles in the leadoff hole even though he didn’t want to hit thier. these were his decisions , his responsibility and his blame alone for making them. Cox gets credit for 14 straight and he also shoulders the blame when the Braves stink. You cant fire the players and the buck stops in the managers office.
By nathan
November 9, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
KC
Hell, while we’re at it, let’s hire O.J. to be our public relations director, (he can set up tee-times for the pitchers), and I’m sure if Brian Jordan was athletic enough to play two sports, I’m sure Ray Lewis could be a pinch runner for us (you never know when the catcher is going to need to be plowed over). It’s too bad that Ray Caruth is in jail. I’m sure we could use him for somthing.
Sorry, folks. I’m just in one of those moods.
Robert
I would appreciate it if you stopped using my quotes in Bobby references.
Just kidding, I’ve backed off my Bobby bashing (for now), but I still get a kick out of your “humor” (for lack of a better term).
KC
Unless Bobby Cox was slipping muscle relaxers into Hudson’s coffee prior to his starts, made phone calls to every available closer last winter to urge them not to come to Atlanta, or used voodoo dolls to curse and strategically disable Mike Hampton, John Thompson, Kyle Davies, Horacio Ramirez, Blaine Boyer, and John Foster… told Francoeur to swing at everything between on-deck circles early in the season, and told guys like Jorge Sosa to aim 3 feet higher than wherever the catcher put the glove…
Now, that is funny!
By texbravesfan
November 9, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
I wonder if the Giles to San Diego rumors are true and since he is from there, he might be interested. Are the Padres still entertaining offers for Peavy, if so, maybe we can offer Giles & Salty for Peavy. That would give us a chance to get rid of our 3 other pitchers for a leadoff hitter. And would leave us with Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, and Peavy, can u say title? We wont really need Salty since we have McCann and we could get rid of some salary and get a #1 starter in the process. Just throwing out ideas though.
By Robert
November 9, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
Y’all forgot to mention Albert (dont call me Joey) Belle, who is also unsigned
By KC
November 9, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
Head Coach
I’m often wrong… but never in doubt! =)
BC didn’t have many options. Reitsma did a great job as the Braves’ closer in 2005 for good stretch of games, but then rather suddenly did a 180 and started blowing games. Supposedly, it had something to do with an injury he was trying to pitch through (sound familiar? We heard that again this year). Anyway, he wasn’t their first choice. They tried to get a closer last winter but struck out, so Reitsma was the guy.
He stuck with Reitsma in the role a little longer than he would have a rookie for two reasons: First, because he was the only one on the team who had closed games successfully (if only for a month or two), and was the Braves #1 reliever heading into the season (as sad as that is to acknowledge). He was their “horse” so to speak… though I’m sure Bobby would have loved to have a much faster one.
And the second reason was that he didn’t have anyone else!!!! He tried everyone at one point or another. The job was handed to (and eventually lost by) Ken Ray. He even tried Kevin Barry and even Jorge Sosa in the role. I think it’s silly to suggest that if BC had a better option, he wouldn’t have taken it. Eventually of course, it became painfully obvious that anyone was better then Reitsma, and he was no longer used in any game that wasn’t already completely lost. Shortly thereafter, we learned about yet another secret nagging injury.
Head Coach and all other BC critics, face the facts Bobby Cox DIDN’T HAVE ANY GOOD OPTIONS!!! That wasn’t his fault. Every time he picked up the bullpen phone, he must have felt like he was playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun. What the #^@%&%$ was he supposed to do? Pull the ghost of Dan Quisenberry out of his a*_ and send him out there???
By Robert
November 9, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
Head Coach - I have to ask you a serious question.
I absolutely agree with what you say about Cox’s bad decisions last year, and that the buck stops in the manager’s office
Now, my question - What makes you think that suddenly, after 14 years,,something was different last year?
I.e. - What makes you think Cox’s bad decisions started in ‘06?
Doesnt it make seem more logical to suppose that Cox has been making bad decisions for years and that last year the talent level and whatever finally got to the point where the team could no longer compensate for it?
The difference in record and outcome last year wasnt because a genius suddenly lost “it”
The buck shouldve stopped in the managers office about an hour and a half after the end of the 1996 World Series
By Robert
November 9, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
“It’s too bad that Ray Caruth is in jail. I’m sure we could use him for somthing”
Hmmm - maybe Cox could dress up as Mrs Carruth for Halloween. Oh the possibilities
By Robert
November 9, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
“Eventually of course, it became painfully obvious that anyone was better then Reitsma”
Eventually just came a few weeks later for BC than it did for the other 299,999,999 people in America
By Robert
November 9, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
“What the #^@%&%$ was he supposed to do?”
Dude, if Cox managed in Japan, he’d have been obligated to commit HariKari about 1982
By KC
November 9, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
To add to my previous post… It’s not Bobby Cox’s fault that the starting pitching was decimated by injury, that Hudson pitched poorly overall or that he didn’t have the personnel he needed in the bullpen.
Even players that underperform are usually trying their hardest… in fact often pressing too hard exacerbates their problems.
So who’s fault was it, Shuerholz’s? No, I don’t think so. He did things the exact same way he had done them over the previous 15 years, though of course he had to adjust a bit over the last 4 years or so with the recently imposed payroll constraints. Keep in mind, this was not the first time the Braves entered the season not knowing who their closer would be. While JS recognized this as a problem, and tried to address it… he had no reason to expect the ensuing catastrophe. He knew that after the season started, he would need to stay on the phones and continue trying to strengthen the pen, but he didn’t expect every Braves reliever to be dodging line drives as though it were a Battle of Normandy reenactment.
JS stuck with the philosophy that had made the Braves winners for 15 years… he tried to sign a closer, but refused to overpay. I can’t blame him for that. If he knew then what he knew a couple months into the season, he would have overpaid a closer if that’s what it took. But… well hell, no use crying over spilled milk anyway. The fact is that the bullpen will be in great shape next year, the rotation has a chance to be very impressive, and the offense is already extremely good. Braves fans have a lot to look forward to next season I think.
By nathan
November 9, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
to all that care what I have to say…(both of you)
I have to (kinda) agree with Robert. I really, really, don’t have a problem with what Bobby did last year. Not many (if ANY) managers could’ve made filet mignon out of that salsbury steak bullpen JS (and the injury bug) assembled. So I’ll give him a flyer on that.
Most of my “issues” with BC stem from YEARS ago and the ho-hum attitude that starts at the top and trickles down to the players, that, IMO, cost us a couple of more WS titles. That’s not to say that Bobby, nor the players don’t care about winning, I’m sure they do. But as a fan, I never felt the sense of urgency in the postseason. Mainly when we we’re up in a series or had the chance to put teams away. You know….KILLER INSTINCT. Sure, in 1996 we saw both sides of this. Backs against the wall against the Cardinals in the NLCS, we come out fighting and take it right to them. That of course, as we all painfully remember, led us to the two BLOWOUT victories in Yankee stadium. At that point, I believe we SAT on our (I say “we” like I was there. I wasn’t - but my TV showed me all I needed to see), respective A*******ES and let that one completely slip through the fingertips. Giving us the same feelings in our guts that I’m sure the Cardinals fans felt after we handed them that humiliating defeat in that series.
As for Bobby, one could argue that for every moronic “move” he makes or doesn’t make (we all have the luxury of 2nd guessing - unfortunately most of know what he’s gonna do before he does it himself, due to seeing it so much for so long. Which is worth asking the question: If I, couch potatoe a couple of thousand miles away knows what he’s gonna do, I’m sure the manager in the othe dugout’s got a “pretty good idea”), there is some good things he does, which shouldn’t go unpraised. (is that a word?)
For instance, I think it’s fairly safe to assume, that possibly the Braves (I’ll back off of the “we”) could have one another title with a different manager (Leyland, DOB?), but it’s MORE than safe to assume that without Bobby in the post “big three” rotation Braves another manager might not have even had the opportunity in the postseason to “choke” or make bad decisions.
For every Dan Kolb or Chris Reitsma that he puts out there one (or 20) too many times, we have to ask: How many other managers would have benched Francoeur last year, or given up on Kelly Johns the year before? So while his patience with some is painful and excruciating, even you ROBERT have to admit that with SOME players patience pays off.
In Long, maybe Bobby needs to be the Head Coach and hire an “offensive coordinator” for the postseason. LOL!
DOB I know you weren’t working for the AJC in 1996, (you weren’t working for the Marlins either - YOU WORKED FOR THE NEWSPAPER. See….I learn from past mistakes. LOL), but I remember reading in Sports Illustrated (or some other mag), after the 1996 WS that a “clubhouse attendant”, (not sure who or what job description they had), overheard while in the Braves visiting clubhouse at Yankee Stadium, an UN-NAMED Braves player saying somthing to the effect that: “these guys can’t play with us, they aren’t even in the same league”, (that is VERY paraphrased), just curious. Working in the media at that time, did you ever here this rumor and if you did, any idea on who said it? I’ve always thought that sounded like a “Chipper” kind of bravado. Justice was injured. McGriff - not a chance. Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz? Unlikely. Klesko…maybe. Not that ANY of it matters. I just think it’s a perfect example of the team not focussing on the job at hand. Also, I’m assuming, having never been in an MLB clubhouse, that this kinda stuff is said ALL THE TIME. Maybe this one was blown out of proportion. But still…..
By KC
November 9, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
Robert: A friend of mine majored in philosophy. Of course we all teased him about majoring in unemployment! LOL! But he once told me that there is a theory that asserts that everything in the universe has an opposite.
Robert, I think I’ve found me opposite! It seems to me that you and are on polar opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to how we see things. I would ask you for your political views just to test my theory, but I don’t want to drag that into the forum. But it’s fun arguing with you. =)
By Robert
November 9, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
The Braves starting pitching was so devastated by injury that they had more starters with 200 IP than ANY of the four NL playoff teams
The Mets pitching wasnt devastated? The Cardinals had two starters with ERA’s under 5, and won the World Series LA got to the playoffs with Chan Ho frickin Park in the roatation part of the year (Now THAT is hard to do)
We lose Mike Hampton and a couple of journeymen and it’s written off as such a devastating loss that it absolves the manager of any responsibility
Not that the pitching didnt have issues. Could it have been, heaven forbid, the loss of Leo Mazzone?
By nathan
November 9, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
KC
I’m not trying to get in the middle of you and Robert (I’m not into that).
But I really can see both sides, kinda. (man does my a$$ hurt from “sitting” on this fenceline)
I think some of Bobby’s best managing (not strategy, just plain old “managing” the team), has been done since Maddux and Glavine have left. Other than Smoltz…No real #2 starter - a consistant one, anyway.
But for you to make the argument that JS “was just doing what he’s done for 15 years” comment is intriguing to say the least. I’m not going to say he got “lucky” all those years and the luck finally wore out. BUT, when you’ve got (I feel like a broken record with this next comment), THREE HOF PITCHERS on your roster for the better part of a decade, that ladies and gentleman, is HARD to mess up.
I’ll stop there, as so you don’t feel like I’m ragging on you…I’m not.
But to me, if someone as ignorant as myself was to be given the Braves GM job tomorrow and the owner said: “here you go nathan, you’ve got these 3 HOF pitchers, go find the other 22 men for your 25 man roster”, I’m guessing the odds are most GM’s could succeed in putting together a team that can compete failry easily. I’m sure it’s not THAT easy, but you get my point, I’m sure. Closer or NO CLOSER.
By David
November 9, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
Nice call on Down In the Valley DOB-great flick-Evan Rachel Wood-one of the finest actresses going.She’s also in Running with Scissors.
I would like to see the Braves go after Roberts or Castillo fo the leadoff role. Can’t get Giles out of here fast enough. he’s been over0rated for years.
By Matthew
November 9, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
Do we know when something might go down as far as a trade for Giles goes? I figured we’d have to wait until the winter meetings got underway, but the Indians deal happened already. Anybody have a guess as to when something will get done, if anything?
Oh and Auburn fans, congrats on getting Kodi Burns. You’re going to need him over the next few years as Arkansas bulks up its dominance of the SEC West.
By Robert
November 9, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
“but it’s MORE than safe to assume that without Bobby in the post “big three” rotation Braves another manager might not have even had the opportunity in the postseason to “choke” or make bad decisions.”
Who cares? So what IF the guy really made a little something out of not much. (and I contend he didnt - the weakness of these past few Braves teams is WAY overblown, in order to further the Cox myth)
The guy turned 9 tons of gold into lead. Who cares if he once found a dime on the sidewalk?
By Robert
November 9, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
” I would ask you for your political views just to test my theory”
Libertarian - to me the two major parties are minor variations of the same basic thing
“even you ROBERT have to admit that with SOME players patience pays off.”
I’ve never said it didnt. My point is that a manager, much less a genius manager, much less the best manager of all time, should have a clue as to which players deserve some patience and which never shoudlve been allowed to put on a big league uniform to begin with
By The Grinch
November 9, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
Morning, all. Robert, you were correct. Strawberry was the answer. KC, once again I admire your optimism, but…If there’s nobody better than Reitsma you’ve got to put in someone new from the minors every two games for the rest of the season just to show you’re trying. One of them will eventually be more effective, and even if they aren’t it shows you’re aware that Reitsma is single-handedly tanking your season and you won’t stand for it. Paying fans deserve that effort. And what about Giles? Maybe we didn’t have a bona-fide leadoff man but Giles’ bat was needed elsewhere. Everyone here knows he would’ve hit .300 if he hadn’t been stuck in that spot, illogical as it sounds. Bobby effectively silenced two bats in the order with that move and WOULD NOT change, no matter how obvious it became that it was the wrong move. I’m not saying everything he does is wrong, but some of the things he does are VERY wrong and mighty confusing.
By ncscoots
November 9, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
Kevin Towers may think 2B are easy to find, but if he’s traded Barfield’s offense for the 3B offense he’s likely to get from the trade, then he hasn’t upgraded, he’s just changed the names. Since they aren’t re-signing Roberts, it figures they’ll look for a LF with sock, which leaves 2B or Brian Giles (!) hitting leadoff. I think that mitigates AGAINST Marcus being traded there. It’s funny, I made a joke about Mark Loretta being in their plans, but maybe they don’t see the humor, and plan to go with somebody like that at 2B if they can procure a big bat.
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Regarding Giles, I need to correct couple of stats (my laptop wasn’t working right earlier and the stats lines weren’t aligned properly under headings).
At Petco Park, he’s hit .209 (9-for-43) with one double, no homers, two RBIs, 12 K and a .510 OPS in 10 games.
At Coors, he’s hit .221 (17-for-77) with five doubles, two homers, six RBIs and a .667 OPS in 19 games.
At Chase Field (formerly BOB) in Arizona, he’s hit .227 (10-for-44) with no extra-base hits and a .585 OPS in 13 games.
And to take the NL West thing further, at Dodger Stadium he’s hit .255 (14-for-55) with two doubles, one RBI and a .630 OPS in 15 games.
Now, granted these are relatively small samples, but oddly these are four of his worst venues.
He’s been better at the other current NL West park, San Francisco’s AT&T (formerly Pac Bell) _ .273 (15-for-55) with one homer, two RBIs and an .803 OPS in 16 games. But still not anywhere near his best.
Coincidence or not, it’s interesting that he simply hasn’t performed well on the West Coast. The exception is San Diego’s old stadium, Qualcomm (formerly Jack Murphy; man do I hate all the name changes), where he hit .471 (8-for-17) with three doubles, a homer and seven RBIs in 6 games.
The team that should be going after him is the Chicago Cubs _ he’s hit .389 (21-for-54) with seven extra-base hits (two homers), 14 RBIs and a 1.070 OPS in 14 games at Wrigley, and .323 with 10 extra-base hits (four homers) and a 1.020 OPS at Milwaukee’s Miller Park, and .367 with a .997 OPS at Pittsburgh’s PNC Park…
Only place in the Central where he hasn’t hit well is Houston’s Minute Maid, where he’s .231 (9-for-31) with two RBIs and a 12 K in 11 games.
Anybody notice a pattern here? The notoriously hard-swinging Giles has his worst numbers at some of the NL’s most hitter-friendly parks _ Coors, Minute Maid and whatever they’re calling Arizona’s park this season.
Coincidence, or changing approach and swinging for the fences in the homer-friendly places?
Nathan, I have no idea about that rumor, but it definitely sounds overblown. If a clubhouse attendant (aka, “Clubbie” in the vernacular) overheard it, remember he’s being paid by the Yankees. Rarely do a team’s clubbies travel with them, usually just one trip per year for each guy. Not saying a clubbie would make something up about the visiting team, but certainly might mention it after the fact.
To me, a guy saying something like that isn’t a sign of anything more than confidence and trying to pump up teammates. I’ve got no problem with that.
By superadam
November 9, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this
Just got back from Cedartown GA and had some of the best brunswick stew that I have ever let fall down my throat. I cant recalll the name of the place but I think it might be the only bar b que joint there. Just ewanted to leave it as a tip for the Barves,Man in Black and BarBQue blog
By ernesto
November 9, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this
If a doctor ever tells me I only have 6 months to live i want to spend them listening to Robert endlessly spout his BC vitriol - it would make mere seconds seem like days.
By Robert
November 9, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
“THREE HOF PITCHERS on your roster for the better part of a decade, that ladies and gentleman, is HARD to mess up.”
Yes it is. And yet he did it, over and over again just so noone could claim it was a fluke
The man wiped his behind with the winning Powerball ticket, and yet people praise him because he found a dime on the sidewalk that someone else overlooked
By Robert
November 9, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
“not strategy, just plain old “managing” the team”
His second best managing was in 94 and 95 in the games Maddux pitched, and in 96 when Smoltz pitched, when Bobby could
a.come to the ballpark b.remove his diaper and put on his uniform c.have someone fill out the lineup card for him d.hand the ball to Maddux or Smoltz e.tell the batboy top wake him up two and a half hours later so he could be first in line at the post-game buffet
His BEST managing was in games 105 thru 162 of the 1994 season, when he was just about flawless
By Paul
November 9, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
WFAN in New York City reported that Mr. Sheffield ripped into Yankee Management, Joe Torre, Derrick Jeter, and Bobby Abreu over the Yanks picking up his option year. I know Dave you’ve stated that Gary is a stand up guy and most people love him, but when is he going to stop putting his foot in his mouth? How can you criticize Jeter or Abreu? Many here in New York feel that Arod’s lack of clutch hitting has to do with the fact that Jeter does not except him in the clubhouse. How did Sheff hit against the Tigers in the ALDS? He did absolutely nothing.
By KC
November 9, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this
“KC, once again I admire your optimism, but…If there’s nobody better than Reitsma you’ve got to put in someone new from the minors every two games for the rest of the season just to show you’re trying.”
Grinch, I’m not sure I follow. I was just making an observation that I think BC and company stuck with Reitsma a little longer than they would have stuck with a rookie, because heading into the season, he was the guy the team had the most confidence in (as sad as that is). I’m not sure what “optimism” you’re talking about. It was just commenting what I think their reasoning was for the decisions that were made.
By TennesseePaul
November 9, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
Dude, if Cox managed in Japan, he’d have been obligated to commit Hari-Kari about 1982
Robert: You’re so far off base the pitcher can tag you without leaving the mound. I recall several of your ridiculous statements over the past few years (months whatever this one dimensional conversation you’ve been spewing has warped time).
First comment: I like Leyland because his teams seem to do better when he’s there.
When Leyland joins a team the team, on average, takes a step back. When he leaves, on average they do better. Leyland also has a losing career record and only 5 play off berths, 4 of which came when he managed some of the greatest players in the game and only one resulting in a WS title.
Second Comment was some ultra retarded plea for a reason to like Cox. Something about a team that in one season simultaneously had and didn’t have Cox as manager and came in first and last with and without Cox at the same time. As impossible as that is to do, here is the next best thing.
In 1982 Cox managed the Blue Jays. That year they produced the best record in their history to that date. From there they got better. Cox began a four-year tenure as Toronto’s manager in 1982, lifting a habitual last-place team to within one game of attaining a World Series berth in 1985. And in case you have forgotten, 1991 was Cox’s first full season back with the Braves. He took a last place team to first place and held them there for a decade and a half. I’d tell you 14 in a row Robert but in truth, that would short change Cox. Cox, if you didn’t know, was on a streak of 15 in a row.
And lastly, if Cox were even remotely as bad as you perceive him to be, he still wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. That title still belongs to your insipid, one-dimensional, blog conversation.
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this
Just posted a new blog. Move it on over….
Oh, speaking of Hank, there’s two specials on PBS (I think it was PBS) tonight, one on George Jones and another on Hank.
That and the Black Keys tomorrow night at Variety. What a time…