AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > October > 09 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USA peek into Andruw’s thoughts
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Cleaning out notepads from the last couple weeks of the season, I came across an interview I did with Andruw Jones in Colorado, on the last trip of the season. Thought I’d share some of it here that I didn’t use (and why I didn’t use it, I don’t know).
A couple things he said that were interesting and perhaps revealing. You decide.
I started by asking him about playing in Colorado, could he imagine playing all his home games there, considering his stunning stats at Coors Field (.351 average, 12 homers, 34 RBIs, 1.161 OPS in 39 games) and the vast outfield expanses where his defensive skills were always evident.
Andruw: “I’m not a cold-weather guy. I don’t even like spring training when it’s cold. When it’s cold, I need to be in the house. I don’t think about it [when I’m playing], but I hate it.”
(Cross a few cities off his list of possibilities should he leave the Braves).
I asked him about playing since the whole waivers stuff made headlines and about his contract status; he’s signed through 2007.
“I don’t think about it. I just let it be. Like I said, I’ve got one more year left. Maybe next year in the middle of the season, if they want to talk, we can work out a deal. I would love to stay in Atlanta. I like it here. I’ve got my house here, my family likes it here.”
On the Braves’ outlook after their first losing season since 1990:
“I think next year we’re going to have a good team again. We’ve got good guys here, and we know our [starting] rotation. We just have to build up the bullpen the right away, and we’ll be fine.”
On whether the possibility of Bobby Cox retiring and not being here for the length of a possible multi-year extension for Jones might affect the center fielder’s decision whether to re-up with the Braves:
“He will [be here],” Andruw said of Cox.
Even if you sign, say, a four-year extension?
“Yeah,” Jones said. “He’ll be here.”
(I found this interesting, since Chipper Jones a couple months back said he couldn’t imagine Bobby Cox retiring, and indicated he wouldn’t be surprised if the manager is still here a few years more).
I asked Andruw what Cox has meant to him and how much he influences his desire to remain a Brave.
“Great person, great manager,” he said. “Being on a competitive team is one thing. Playing at home [where you live full-time] is another thing. But especially playing for him, that’s the best thing.
“So many managers out there are great people. But he’s on a totally different level. He comes and talks to you when he needs to talk to you. He tells you what he wants or what’s on his mind. Some managers don’t do that.”
Considering how much wear and tear he’s put on his body, breaking in so young, playing virtually every day and banging into walls and making sliding catches, I asked him how much longer he thought he could play.
“I’m going to push for 10 more years,” he said (and I had to ask again to make sure I was hearing right.) “We’ll see what happens, but yeah, I’d like to have 10 more years and then I’m done.”
Would he consider playing DH in the American League to stick around a long time?
“If I had to, but I don’t want to,” he said. “I want to stay at one position my whole career. I like how Willie Mays did it. He played one position his whole career. That’s awesome.
“That’s what I want to do, finish as a center fielder, not a DH or first baseman. But we’ll see. It depends how long you can stay healthy.”
Going back to that 10-more-seasons goal, I asked him if that indicated how much he still enjoys playing baseball.
“It’s not a bad job, with the schedule and all,” he said, smiling.
Then he turned serious. “This game is what I do for a living.”
A few days later, back in Atlanta during the final homestand, I asked Andruw again about the waivers thing, when he found out through the media in early August that he’d been placed on waivers (along with many other marquee players in what amounted to a procedural move by the Braves).
I asked him if there was any lingering tension between him and John Schuerholz after Jones had said publicly that he should have at least been notified by someone in the front office and had the situation explained to him.
His answer, in full: “Me and Schuerholz talked already. When we got back from that roadtrip he told me, ‘I should have picked the phone up and called you and told you what’s going on or what’s not going on.’ I said I appreciate that. Only thing I said was, I wish someone had told me something, and he said, ‘I should have, because we have a good relationship and I should have picked up the phone and called you.’
“I said I don’t have a problem, and now I understand what was going on with the waiver thing. I said I don’t have any problem, I don’t want to get traded because of that or anything.
“I know he can’t tell me anything, but what he told me after we got back from that road trip is that if something happens, ‘I’ll call you and tell you what’s going on.’ So we’ll see. It’s a business, and sometimes GMs like to keep things secret from the players. I understand that part.”
OK, so that’s the rest of my Andruw stuff. Stay tuned in coming weeks for possible updates. I’ve heard nothing yet, but that’s to be expected since Braves are just now having organizational meetings and really getting into discussing next year’s team….
On an entirely unrelated matter, everyone’s following the ongoing saga of the Yankees/Torre/A-Rod, etc., and A-Rod’s horrible recent postseason results have been bandied about on ESPN and elsewhere.
What hasn’t been given is his earlier career performance to give it context and underscore just how far he’s slipped in the postseason. Rodriguez hit .363 (33-for-91) with 14 extra-base hits (six homers), 16 RBIs and a 1.062 OPS in the first 23 postseason games of his career.
In 12 postseason games since, beginning with Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS vs. Boston, he’s hit .091 (4-for-41) with one double, ZERO RBIs and a .424 OPS. He’s got twice as many errors (two) as extra-base hits in that span.
But I’m wondering why so few have pointed out Gary Sheffield’s equally absysmal postseason work in that same period (other than the fact that Sheff makes quite a bit less than A-Rod and doesn’t seem to rub people wrong in the same way).
Anyway, here’s what Sheff has done in exactly the same postseason stretch, beginning with Game 4 vs. Boston on Sept. 17, 2004: He’s hit .160 (8-for-50) with ZERO extra-base hits, three RBIs and a .396 OPS, including .236 on-base percentage….
One more thing, Braves fans:
It was on this day a year ago when Chris Burke’s18th-inning homer ended the longest postseason game in baseball history, Houston beating Atlanta 7-6, to advance into the NLCS. The Braves’ late five-run lead was erased by an eighth-inning grand slam by Lance Berkman and a two-out ninth inning solo homer by Brad Ausmus, just above the outstretched glove of Andruw Jones.
Ah, such wrenching memories for Braves Nation. Damn you, Kyle Farnsworth.
And now for something pleasant that came out of the Lone Star State:
“Nothin’”, by Townes Van Zandt (a great Texan)
Hey mama, when you leave/don’t leave a thing behind/I don’t want nothin’/I can’t use nothin’
Take care into the hall, and if you see my friends/tell them I’m fine/not using nothin’
Almost burned out my eyes/threw my ears down to the floor/I didn’t see nothin’/I didn’t hear nothin’
I stood there like a block of stone/knowin’ all I had to know/and nothin’ more/man, that’s nothin’
As brothers our troubles are/locked in each others arms/and you better pray/they never find you
Your back ain’t strong enough/for burdens doublefold/they’d crush you down/down into nothin’
Being born is going blind/and buying down a thousand times/to echoes strung/on pure temptation
Sorrow and solitude/these are the precious things/and the only words/that are worth rememberin’
Services »
Comments
By journalist jimmy smith
October 9, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this
can this be playoff fever?
oprah winfrey collapsed from heat exhaustion when temperatures pushing 100 degrees and high humidity caused her to feel unwell. an onlooker said oprah collapsed.
“she was getting dizzier and dizzier, she started sweating profusely and her vision became blurred. her knees were buckling under her and she nearly blacked out.
“oprah quickly stepped back and found a seat. she tried to revive herself by putting cool compresses on her head and drinking liquids.”
in an effort to recover, this journalist has learned that oprah ate almost an entire tub of cookie dough ice cream and drank more than a keg of root beer.
perhaps oprah has a future in the braves bullpen.
By Andy
October 9, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this
I hope the yanks trade him soon/get it over with. I think Andruw will play out the rest of his career here. It will be fun to dream adding a-rod(won’t happen) but the line up would be pretty.
I know it is only dreaming…but come on. I know the braves need pitching and don’t want to turn into the rangers or anything. Just one season it would be fun. Think how many more pitches Andruw would get if A-rod was behind him. Since this is only a dream Glavine and Maddox each take less money one last year see what happens. Ohhh it’ll be a long off season.
By TC
October 9, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this
Nice pun in the headline.
By TennesseePaul
October 9, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this
DOB: Nice blog. Thanks for the extra AJ quotes. And for the research on the two flopping Yanks.
I have a feeling AJ will be in Atlanta for a while. But we’ll just have to wait and see. Replacing him would be harder than replacing Furcal. And I think, after this years results, no one wants to go through another losing season anytime soon. JS will figure something out though and it will more than likely work.
By TennesseePaul
October 9, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this
A-Rod in left. I’d like to meet the man who sells that to him. A-Rod, waive your No-Trade, go to a smaller market than NY, and change positions again. Sold! =)
By kg
October 9, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this
Sheff has continued what started in Atl, he’s horrible in the post season. How about bringing Torre in to manage the Braves. He could be bench coach for a year, give him time to decompress and then take over for Bobby.
By Thomas
October 9, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this
I understand how fond you and the Devil Rays fans are of Carl Crawford, but it seems as though his name constantly comes up in trade talk. In that spirit, I offer you a potential deal with my Braves. What would you think of the following: Atlanta sends Chuck James or Kyle Davies and Ryan Langerhans to Tampa Bay for Crawford.
I’m sure that more could be added to either side to make it work (i.e. the Braves maybe add a solid prospect and the Rays throw in some cash) but it’s just an idea. Kazmir and James/Davies would make a very solid 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation… —Ernesto R., San Jose, Costa Rica
Sorry, I don’t buy that one. Crawford is the best player in franchise history and he keeps getting better every year. The Braves players you mention are good players, but are any of the three an impact player? I don’t think so. Crawford is potentially a guy who can have 30 home runs, 100 RBIs, a .300 average with 50 steals every season, not to mention the disruption he creates with the other team’s defense. He’s an impact player whom I believe is a superstar in the making
By Thomas
October 9, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this
With the Braves needing a leadoff hitter who can play left field, what are the odds they could acquire Carl Crawford? — Tyler N., Macon, Ga.
It certainly seems the Braves’ biggest offseason need is to locate a legitimate leadoff hitter, and Crawford seems to be the most appealing option. If the Devil Rays are truly going to trade this potential superstar, they’ll be looking to get young pitching in return, and the Braves certainly could pique their interest with either Kyle Davies or Chuck James.
But even if the Braves were to offer either Davies or James, the Devil Rays would want even more. At 25 years old, Crawford has the potential to be the most exciting player in Tampa Bay’s short history. He’s a good defender who possesses speed and power.
So, obviously, the Braves will at least inquire about Crawford. But if they weren’t able to work out a sensible deal, then they could also look to find another leadoff hitter who doesn’t necessarily have to play left field.
The overwhelming belief is that Marcus Giles won’t be back in Atlanta next year. Thus the Braves could also seek a second baseman who could serve as a leadoff hitter.
Some of you have said they should look to sign Gary Matthews Jr. as a free agent or trade for Ryan Freel. As good as Matthews was this year, the fact remains that it took him until the age of 31 before many casual baseball fans even knew who he was.
Matthews will command a large raise this season, and his asking price might reach a point where the Braves and other teams have to truly wonder if he’s capable of producing another season like the one he just had.
As for Freel, the Reds owe him just $1.7 million next year and I don’t see much reason for them to look to deal this versatile threat whose .367 career on-base percentage certainly proves he’s capable of being a valuable leadoff hitter.
Although the Braves managed to score the second-most runs in the National League this year without the benefit of a true leadoff hitter, I still feel they must find somebody who can provide the consistent spark that Rafael Furcal did during his six seasons in Atlanta.
As the postseason continues to unfold, the importance of a leadoff hitter will be highlighted. Had Furcal or Kenny Lofton — the top two hitters in the Dodgers’ lineup — done any sort of damage this past week, the Mets wouldn’t have gotten away with entering October with an injury-depleted pitching staff.
With both Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz’s contracts expiring after the 2007 season, does it mean that the greatest GM/manager combo in the history of baseball will be retiring? Or is there a plan in the works to keep both of them until Judgment Day? — Dexter H., Birmingham, Ala.
I’m assuming you’re using the Biblical reference to refer to Judgment Day and wondering if both Cox and Schuerholz will be around forever. Unless you know something that I don’t, this obviously won’t be the case.
But I wouldn’t be surprised to enter the 2008 season with both still in their current positions. Last year at this time, I wasn’t so sure.
My thinking was that they’d both done more than enough to solidify legitimate candidacy for Cooperstown and that there really wasn’t much more for them to prove.
But then this year arrived with a multitude of disappointments, and by the end, it was obvious both were determined to make sure next year won’t be the same.
Both Cox and Schuerholz may be growing old in age, but neither has shown any sign of losing their mental abilities. What they’ve done in Atlanta over the past two decades certainly earns them the opportunity to continue working in their roles as long as they want.
With last week’s changes, they brought a little more youth to their coaching staff, and that should certainly be a benefit that could pay dividends for many years to come.
By David O'Brien
October 9, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this
KG, I like that idea, but Torre’s owed $7 mill _ yes $7 mill, about three times what Cox and most other top-salaried managers get _ and I’d bet he’d decompress at home counting his money for a year if another managerial job wasn’t to his liking. Not to mention, Braves already filled their bench-coach opening. “Hey, Chino, we love ya, but about that promotion …”
By Kraig Brown
October 9, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this
A “peak” into Andruw’s thoughts might mean something of an apex of sorts. I’ll take just a “peek” and that should do. Thanks
By Robert
October 9, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this
“Jim lost to Cox, twice!”
Yes. And you know what TP? If you sat down and played heads up poker with Phil Ivey, you’d win a hand or two. Doesnt mean you compare to him as a player
Y’all I stopped talking about Cox, and now seem to have allowed myself to be dragged back into the conversation
I am tired of it. We can go on and on round and round. I dont care if the players love the manager. I dont care who lauds the manager. I want one thing - world series titles for my team.
Some day, it will end. Cox will eventually retire (or die, I suppose). Lord help us he manage as long as Connie Mack. (Take that back - I’d love to see him manage the Yankees, or the Mets, or any other team I dont like, in perpetuity) God willing, I’ll be alive to see the post-Cox Braves. Then we’ll see what happens. The debate wont be settled, I’m sure. There will be other factors responsible if the Cox less Braves suddenly start winning the World Series. It’ll be luck, it’ll be the wind blowing the right way, it’ll be that Gary Sheffield wasnt good enough but now is gone, whatever
My bet offer stands. The first year that the Atlanta Braves play a full season with a manager not named Robert Joseph Cox, they will win at least ten more games than they do in the final year in which Cox manages for the entire season - 6 pack of beverage of winner’s choice - as many of you as want to take the bet
Second bet offer - No Atlanta Braves team managed in the postseason by Robert Joseph Cox will ever win another World Series title.
That part about Cox possibly being here four more years. I got nauseous reading it. Literally, I could just cry.
But you know, in the end, if they get their wish, it’ll be Chipper and Andru that retire ringless -
Hopefully, I think I can avoid discussing Cox from now until the turning point of the ‘07 season (which will be the day that pitchers and catchers report and Cox is there to greet them)
DOB - what excuses and justifications will be used next October and the next three after that?
When I die, I’ll know if I went to heaven or hell depending on whether Cox is managing my favorite baseball team
By Robert
October 9, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this
“With both Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz’s contracts expiring after the 2007 season, does it mean that the greatest GM/manager combo in the history of baseball will be retiring? “
Is there a god?
Dont tease me like that.
By Thomas
October 9, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this
Crawford would turn 26 next season, and its being arbritation eligeble. With the Braves looking for a leadoff hitter, in the market, Crawford definitely comes into mind. I just gave copy/paste the mailbags of the Braves and Devil Rays, and they both say it is unlikely that Crawford is traded, the possible trade is Kyle Davies or Chuck James, and Ryan Langerthans for the speedy Crawford. It doesnt look bad if the braves get him:
By kg
October 9, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this
We signed Gary Matthews, Jr a couple of years ago as a free agent and had him in camp. As I recall, he was cut before the begining of the season. He didn’t produce much, but the way he was cut leaves me to believe that there was more to it than meets the eye.
By TennesseePaul
October 9, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this
Thomas: Crawford hasn’t done to well in the lead-off spot. Think Giles. Giles’ numbers were fabulous. And when you put a .300 hitter with a great OBP and a ton of doubles at the top of the order it looks good. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out that way. Not to mention that pitching was the issue this season. Trading pitching for a position player doesn’t seem like the best move to make.
By summerteeth
October 9, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this
It ain’t Hobex!
By Robert
October 9, 2006 07:37 PM | Link to this
Ok, I’m off for a week again (y’all can celebrate if you like)
DOB - I just have to when it comes to players rating managers, Chipper’s and Andru’s opinions have particular weight because they have played for so many different managers in the bigs
“…. Cox …. may be growing old in age, but neither has shown any sign of losing their mental abilities. “
One can not lose what one never had
See y’all in a week
By Mike A
October 9, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this
Did someone take away Chipper’s 1995 ring? What did I miss? I’m still trying to figure out how he’s going to retire ringless. Maybe his first wife got it in the divorce?
By David O'Brien
October 9, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this
Mike A, you’re letting facts get in the way of emotional rants. Come on, now, don’t stand in the way of the crusade….
Anyway, sorry I quoted one of the player’s on the team. Should have omitted the quote about Cox, apparently.
I mean, dude, what the….? Deep breath, let it out, yes…better.
By David O'Brien
October 9, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this
Now he’s got me making errors … sorry about the apostrophe in players. Typo sent too late to pull it back…
As for peak _ mountains, man. Colorado. Oh, nevermind. I’ll see if I can change it.
By Billy
October 9, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this
Read this and it might clear up the Matthews thing. He just wasn’t a very good player back then. Good for him now, but what if he goes back to his old ways next year. Is he worth the risk on such a short one year tracck record.
Nov 24, 2003: Claimed by the Atlanta Braves off waivers from the San Diego Padres.
The Gary Matthews Jr. era with the Braves ended before the journeyman outfielder reached Atlanta.
The Braves asked for Matthews’ unconditional release on Wednesday morning, 03/31/2004 , just hours before they would have been obligated to pay his entire $800,000 salary.Because they released Matthews before Wednesday’s 2 p.m. ET deadline, the Braves are now only obligated to pay 25 percent ($200,000) of the contract they presented after they claimed the 29-year-old outfielder off waivers in November.
When Matthews arrived at Spring Training, he was the clear favorite to begin this year as the Braves’ fourth outfielder. But that was before he batted just .154 and struck out 17 times in 52 at-bats this spring.
“He wasn’t horrible this spring,” Cox said. “He played fine. He wanted to have a better spring. I like Gary. But the other guys are playing good.”
Those other guys are non-roster invitee outfielders Dewayne Wise and Damon Hollins, who have produced with both their bats and gloves since the Grapefruit League season began.
By David O'Brien
October 9, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this
Remember last week when I had in the blog that McCann led the majors in average both with runners on base and with runners in scoring position and two outs?
Check this stat from Elias, in regards to the latter stat:
Brian McCann was 24-for-51 with two out and runners in scoring position this season, a .471 batting average. The last time a National League player had such a high average in at least 40 at-bats in those situations was in 1969, when Pete Rose went 32-for-64 (.500).
By Calvin
October 9, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this
What about bringing in Eric Gagne for the setup role this year and after Wickman retires next year, give the closers role to Gagne. Let him build himself back up for a year and then get that dominant closer that won the Cy Young in 03. You never know..
By David O'Brien
October 9, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this
I could be wrong, Robert, but I think most bloggers here would prefer to hear what Andruw has to say about Cox and the likelihood of him staying around for the length of Andruw’s possible next contract, as opposed to what you or I has to say about him. Again, I could be wrong. But I really do think most bloggers care to hear what the players have to say about the manager as it pertains to their careers, etc.
That or “Hee-haw.” It’s a toss-up.
By Snowball's Chance
October 9, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this
Nice interview, DOB. This is the first year I have followed the Braves on the AJC. What do you cover in the offseason? Thanks for providing a place to hang out and learn about the Braves and music. The Braves will abide.
By Bob, journalist
October 9, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this
Jimmy, I’m curious … “putting … and drinking liquids” … what choices did she have … solids?
Robert, you emote so much sometimes that if I didn’t know better, I’d think you’re riding Buttermilk … and, there’s more to being a fan than just wanting the team to win World Series.
By Dave knockahomer
October 9, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this
Thanks, DOB! I thought everyone had gone to sleep and would wake up in February or something :) thanks for the AJ stuff…I pray to the gods of baseball that he stays with the Braves! Just can’t imagine him in any other uniform. Cox? he drives me nuts but downright crazy in the postseason. He is a darn good regular season manager but in the post season, he seems to ‘lose’ whatever sense he might have. I will never forget him bringing in Jeff Reardon who gave up a winning home run. Then in the next game or two [I forget who we were playing—-tis me old age memory problem] BUT he brought Reardon back in again! I could not believe it!!! Building up confidence or being loyal to a player is one thing, but doing it at the expense of the team is another. Well, Reardon gave up another home run! The players probably like him because he does NOT take names and kick butt!
Look at Leland..he had a total fit about midway in the season! There were folk who said he had gone overboard! Au contraire…he only brought the Tigers to the ALCS where I expect them to beat the Athletics and take the World Series, barring injuries. As he said just recently……when he needs to take a pitcher out, he does it and whether the pitcher, the fans or whoever likes it doesn’t matter. IT IS WINNING! Damn, can we hire Leland?
Wow, there would be some discipline, that fer sure. Anyway, am glad the off season has killed your posts, DOB! any rumors yet? :) by the way, poor George! IF I were him and I had spent all that crappin money and nothing happend……hell, I’d fire me a whole bunch of players and start over! Begining with A-rod who seems to have gotten a psych breakdown; then Shefflied, Giambi…… oh well…. GO LELAND!
By flbravesgirl
October 9, 2006 09:07 PM | Link to this
Calvin, I don’t know that BigBob is planning on retirement that soon. He always signs for one year at a time. He may decide to pitch for a few more years. Gagne, on the other hand, scares me. He’s turning into the closing version of Wood/Prior it seems.
By The Grinch
October 9, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this
So Oprah collapsed, huh? I was wondering why half my books fell off their shelves earlier. Does she drink the official root beer of journalists? Speaking of someone who ought to retire…
Bob, riding buttermilk? You got me on that one. Was/is it a race horse? The only buttermilk I know is to soak cornbread in or make biscuits.
By Dave knockahomer
October 9, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this
Dave: I make a big typo!
I said: “Anyway, am glad the off season has killed your posts, DOB! any rumors yet? :)”
WHAT I MEAN TO SAY WAS: Anyway, am glad the offseason has NOT killed your posts, DOB!
sorry about my typo, man!
By brian
October 9, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this
On the Gary Matthews thing. Don’t forget if Matthews wouldn’t of been cut we might have never had Charles Thomas and Marrero as the great LF combo it was. It Thomas didn’t get an opportunity we might have had to trade Giles instead of him to get Hudson. But hey that time last year that’d be a good point. But with Giles and Hudson both coming off disapointing years that statement doesn’t mean much.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
October 9, 2006 10:08 PM | Link to this
It’ll be interesting to see what happens to Andruw during the offseason. I found his comment about approaching him in the middle of next season about an extension interesting.
As for the Yankee drama, all I can say is its a bunch of crap! Torre is a great manager. He’s not the genius who didn’t get quality pitching for the team. He’s not the wizard who thinks that getting nothing but high paid players is the way to win championships. All Torre did was manage all those egos and continuously get them into the playoffs.
If you look at those teams that won those 4 titles in 5 years, they didn’t have the ungodly huge payroll these current Yankee teams do. Pettite was an ace before he was “big money”. O’Neil manned RF, Scott Brosius (sp?) played 3B, Knoblauch at 2B, and a young Posada at catcher. Those Yankees were much more balanced.
By dadgum
October 9, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this
DOB, I read what you are printing about Andruw dude. Truthfully, I feel he does want to stay in Atlanta. The family warm weather thing and all but why then does he in the same breath say he hopes things can work out contract-wise during the ‘07 season. Seems like if he is so willing to remain with BC and company he would be just as eager to get the extension done pronto. It would be easier on everybody. Is it just me or is Andruw simply posturing. Can’t believe the Braves would gamble and begin ‘07 with Andruw in limbo.
Maybe they can gamble if they get the most glaring need (top starter) via free agency or another trade. Obviously the Braves are very close to being a very good team and Andruw knows that plus he also knows that his situation must be cleared up (from the Braves point of view) soon so they can go after other needs. Oh well sorry to rehash the views but it seems that what Andruw is wishing for isn’t the same as what he is saying to the media. Just my take. For the record I want Andruw to remain a Brave.
By Alan
October 9, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this
Wasn’t Buttermilk Dale Evans’s horse? Dale, of course, was Roy Rogers’s wife. What any of this has to do with baseball is beyond me. Maybe Dale was Darrell Evans’s aunt. Or something. Anyway, David, thanks for your post. Good, interesting stuff. And I love your retorts to Robert, the Bobby Cox basher. I have no idea why he’s on this hopeless crusade, to rid the world (or at least the USA’s Southeast) of Cox, who by just about everyone’s account - including a recent poll of major league players (but what do they know?) - is the best manager in the game, but it is sooooo tiring. It’s like beating a dead horse - aha - Buttermilk!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
October 9, 2006 10:55 PM | Link to this
Dadgum, I totally agree. I want Andruw to stay but the situation must be resolved this winter and not after next season. If Andruw wants to stay like he keeps saying, then why not work out an extension now instead of waiting until the middle of next season or after?
By Lew
October 10, 2006 12:07 AM | Link to this
It may not be Andruw’s decision on whether they begin negotiations in the offseason or during 07. Besides, what does it really matter if they wait until next year? He’s under contract and usually it’s the player who doesn’t want to negotiate during the season. Apparently this is not a problem for Andruw. I don’t know how he can say any stronger that the Braves can sign him if they really want to. Seems like the ball is in the Braves court. Good night. I have pontificated.
By Kentavo
October 10, 2006 12:12 AM | Link to this
How ‘bout Andruw and Renteria for A-Rod, and put him back at SS?
By journalist jimmy smith
October 10, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this
much is going on today - there is a sick beluga whale, oprah has collapsed, and ted turner is dating an anchorman. joe torre is rumored to be fired. bob has introduced buttermilk to the blog. buttermilk was indeed dale evans’ horse. if robert is riding buttermilk robert is riding a dead horse. that’s the way bob talks. caution robert: if bob mentions trigger remember that trigger is stuffed (could be full of it). word to the wise. now, no baseball tonight but espn managed to devote most of the night to the yankees. they did lose, right?
By Head Coach
October 10, 2006 12:54 AM | Link to this
If it were left up to the baseball Gods , Bobby Cox would have three world championships. Lonnie got deeked in 91 and Wohlers flopped in 96 so dont blame Cox for the players not getting it done in the postseason. Correct me if I’m wrong , but dont they give out a big trophy for winning the N.L. championship ? if so there are six trophy’s on display along with five pennants fluttering in the wind at Turner field along with 14 division titles and that aint bad. Barring major catastrophe in the injury department Andruw Rudolf Jones will lead the Braves back into the postseason in 2007. P.S. dont you just feel sorry for the Yankee’s ? NOT ME , lol !
By scott
October 10, 2006 01:42 AM | Link to this
Robert, Chipper isn’t going to retire ringless. He was on the 1995 World Champion Atlanta Braves.
Also you’re insane if you think that Bobby Cox isn’t one of the best managers of all time.
By The Grinch
October 10, 2006 02:07 AM | Link to this
Journalist Jimmy, thre is a collapsed Beluga and a collapsed Oprah; this could be Yin/Yang and threfore symbolize unity/harmony. A new phase! I’m sleepy. I think I’ll pull the trigger on a glass of buttermilk. Whoo-ha! Grinch out.
By ncscoots
October 10, 2006 06:20 AM | Link to this
Ah yes, buttermilk, banana pudding, and Black Keys. And what does this have to with baseball? Absolutely nothing, and glad of it (but if you insist), perhaps in 2007 Braves need more “b” players instead of “p” players.
By VolsRock
October 10, 2006 07:37 AM | Link to this
Go LELAND … fire BOBBY … and if the Yankees fire Torre for losing in the first round, then Bobby should have been gone long ago because that’s his specialty!
By journalist jimmy smith
October 10, 2006 08:06 AM | Link to this
better be careful what you say, DOB will be ignoring your stupid azzez…hey, when I wipe my azz I start at the ankles!…
By bigHairybeast
October 10, 2006 08:20 AM | Link to this
Sure is refreshing to visit so many other MLB sites and not be insulted by Deadbeat writers!
By KC
October 10, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this
WOW THANKS DOB!
Thanks for bringing up that 18 inning loss last year. Perhaps you would like to kick a few of us in the crotch while you’re at it.
By KC
October 10, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this
Please forgive my re-posting this for the sake of sake of conversation:
My BRAVES TOP 10 FREE AGENT WISH LIST:
I put together my top 10 wish list a few weeks ago, but after giving it some thought, I’ve revised it slightly. I know that most of these players are very unlikely to sign with Atlanta for various reasons, but that’s why I called this a WISH list.
1 – Jason Schmidt: I think the Braves’ rotation is already well stocked with the return of Hampton and Ramirez, but Schmidt would substantially upgrade the starting staff. Power pitching usually wins in October. Yes, I know… I’ve heard that he doesn’t like to pitch at Turner field. I strongly suspect that we would adjust if he were pitching here on a regular basis.
2 – Alfonso Soriano: He can lead off and play 2B. He’d be a perfect fit in Atlanta. If the Braves were to sign him, I think they would still have a decent shot at resigning Andruw. Soriano would have to accept a slightly back-loaded deal, taking a little less over the first two seasons in ATL, and Andruw would need to take less in the first year (2008) of any new deal. After that, the Braves would have much more flexibility to pay both as the contracts of Hampton and Chipper will expire after 2008.
3 – Juan Pierre: If the Braves were to land Soriano (which I know is very unlikely) then Pierre wouldn’t be needed. However, of the available free agents, he’s the next best option for a leadoff guy. His OBP has been rather inconsistent throughout his career, but he atones for it with the havoc he wreaks on the base paths.
4 – Barry Zito: I’m not positive that he’s any better than any of the pitchers currently in our rotation (I think Tim Hudson will bounce back, and feel that HoRam is better than most people realize). Over the last 3 seasons, Zito has gone 41-34 with a 4.04. That’s nothing to write home about. However, he seems to step it up in October.
5 – Kenny Lofton: He’s still a base stealer, and a pretty good hitter (against righties anyway). Whether the Braves use him in the leadoff spot nearly every day or as a pinch-hitter/runner, it would be wonderful to have at least one real base-stealing threat on the team. Though if the Braves were to add Soriano or Pierre, then Lofton would be much less important.
6 – Danys Baez (resign): It’s unlikely that he will resign with ATL, but it sure would be nice to keep him as our setup man. He was very solid for Atlanta overall after the trade. His occasional struggles can be traced largely to health issues which are no longer a problem.
7 – Steve Kline: He’s a solid veteran lefty who could meet Atlanta’s need for a setup man (assuming Baez leaves).
8 – Wes Helms: He’s been one of the best part-time players in baseball over the last few years. Over the last 3 seasons, he hit .294 in 683 AB’s. He can play 1st, 3rd, or the outfield and would give us the right-handed pop off the bench that we’re currently lacking.
9 – Jeff Conine: If we can’t get Helms, Conine is the next best thing. He can also play 1st, 3rd, or the outfield, gives us a good right-handed bat off the bench.
10 – Jason Grimsley: He knows were to get really great vitamin supplements!
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this
I think Arod’s post-season numbers are under scrutinity just because his teams haven’t done much in the post-season. Also I think it’s fun for many fans and many in the media to blame him because of his salary, because he’s put on a pedestal due to his skills, and because he’s seen as a jerk by many.
Sure, Alex Rodriguez is one of the minor reasons the Yankees haven’t won a World Series since 2000. But there is plenty of blame to go around. Baseball’s a team game and putting the Yankees disappointment all on ARod’s shoulders is rediculous.
There are quite a few “superstars” who struggled in the post-season and no one even remembers or cares—probably because you could blame other disappointing aspects of their teams or because their teams won anyway. Mark McGwire hit .217 with a .320 OBP in the post-season.
Rodriguez has actually hit .305 AVG/.393 OBP/.534 SLG in the post-season…not too shabby if you ask me. Yeah, this year he didn’t do so hot, but he’s been on base 32 times in 96 post-season plate appearances and 20 post-season games with the Yankees. He’s created an estimated 24 runs offensively in his teams’ 35 post-season games in his career. He’s created about an estimated 12 runs for the Yankees in the post-season.
By Thomas
October 10, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this
Possible Leadoff Hitters for Braves:
Possible Pitcher:
By Matt T
October 10, 2006 08:54 AM | Link to this
I couldn’t speculate as to why Sheffield gets a free pass for the steroid issue or his struggles in the postseason, but I think that most of that are Braves fans are well aware of his post season struggles and thought of that when the Yanks signed him.
It is amazing how some of the best hitters in the game can’t handle the pressure of postseason baseball.
By KC
October 10, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this
TennPaul Wrote:
“KC: Baez has already stated he doesn’t want to come back. He wants to be a Closer. I don’t think any of those players will be Braves next season. Maybe Pierre, sad to say, but even then I think it’s a long shot. JS is talking about getting back to the strong pitching heritage. This seems to imply that the defense will also be improved, or at least maintained. Peirre is a step back in defense. Well, several large steps back.”
TennPaul, sorry I didn’t have a chance to respond yesterday. I agree, most of the people on that list are not likely to sign with the Braves. I think there are a few here that Atlanta would have a very real chance of signing. If I had to rank these 10… well, actually it’s just 9 (the Grimsley thing was obviously a joke)… but if I had to rank these 9 player in order of their probability of signing with the Braves, it would look like this:
1 - Steve Kline: The Braves are looking for a proven setup man, and he’s the only decent one on the free agent market that I can think of.
2 – Wes Helms: If the Braves bring back D.Ward, it’s unlikely that they would also try to acquire Helms, but he would be a great fit and he liked being a Brave when he first came up with Atlanta.
3 – Juan Pierre: Pitching is Atlanta’s stated top priority. However, they may pick up a pitcher or two via trade without having to cough up much cash. If that’s the case, they may use some of those left-over funds to pursue a leadoff hitter.
4 – Jason Schmidt: He still holds BC and the Braves organization in high regard, and Atlanta might be willing to offer him something close to market value for his services. It’s unlikely that he’ll sign with Atlanta given that he’ll probably get offers from both NY teams commensurate to the gross national product of many small nations.
5 – Barry Zito: Unlikely for the same reasons as Schmidt. The Braves can’t and won’t get into a bidding war with deep pocketed, pitching desperate teams. However, Atlanta’s always seems to be an attractive option to players, especially pitchers.
6 – Jeff Conine: Not likely simply because of his age. When the Braves acquire a player like Conine, it usually seems to be in the middle of the season when they’re gearing up for a stretch run. That said, he might be a nice fit.
7 – Danys Baez: He wants to be a closer. However, if the only closer opportunities he’s offered are with losing teams for a modest salary (by MLB closer standards), he might change his mind. Not likely though.
8 – Alfonso Soriano: The Braves probably won’t look to spend this much money in an attempt to upgrade what was already the best offense in the league this year. But he would be an absolutely perfect fit. The Braves are going to have to get their leadoff hitter from either 2B or LF. Soriano can play either position. Oh yeah, and he’s one of the best hitters in the game.
9 – Kenny Lofton: It makes me sad to list him as the least likely of these 9 to sign with Atlanta. It just doesn’t seem like Atlanta’s ever had any further interest in him since his one year with the Braves about a decade ago. But I think he could be an extremely valuable addition, I really do. I wish with all my hear that the Braves would offer him a 3-4 mill, one year deal.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this
ARod’s Not a Choker
I think Arod’s post-season numbers are under scrutinity just because his teams haven’t done much in the post-season. Also I think it’s fun for many fans and many in the media to blame him because of his salary, because he’s put on a pedestal due to his skills, and because he’s seen as a jerk by many.
Sure, Alex Rodriguez is one of the minor reasons the Yankees haven’t won a World Series since 2000. But there is plenty of blame to go around. Baseball’s a team game and putting the Yankees disappointment all on ARod’s shoulders is rediculous.
There are quite a few “superstars” who struggled in the post-season and no one even remembers or cares—probably because you could blame other disappointing aspects of their teams or because their teams won anyway. Mark McGwire hit .217 with a .320 OBP in the post-season.
Rodriguez has actually hit .305 AVG/.393 OBP/.534 SLG in the post-season…not too shabby if you ask me. Yeah, this year he didn’t do so hot, but he’s been on base 32 times in 96 post-season plate appearances and 20 post-season games with the Yankees. He’s created an estimated 24 runs offensively in his teams’ 35 post-season games in his career. He’s created about an estimated 12 runs for the Yankees in the post-season.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this
Thomas,
Is there any reason a team that finished in the top three in their league in runs scored needs to overpay for a “prototypical” leadoff hitter?
By KC
October 10, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this
THOMAS: In regard to the leadoff options you suggested…
Brandon Phillips has a career .290 on-base percentage. For a leadoff hitter??? Ouch. We’re much better off looking within our organization.
Gary Matthews Jr. isn’t really a proto-typical leadoff hitter. He’s not a base stealer, and 2006 was the first year of his career in which he posted what would be considered a decent OBP for a leadoff hitter. Matthews is a free agent coming off an all-star season. He would cost every bit as much or more as it would cost us to keep Marcus Giles.
This year was an off year for Giles, but over the last three years, his on-base percentages looked like this: .390, .378, .365. Giles has proven that he can get on base, and he runs well to boot. Let’s not forget also that if we pick up a leadoff hitter to play LF, he better be good enough to justify benching a guy (Matt Diaz) who hit .327 over 300 at-bats. And since LaRoche has established himself at 1B, left field is also the only place the Braves will be able to get more of a look at Scott Thorman, who may be a big part of Atlanta’s future.
I seriously doubt anything will happen for Carl Crawford. He is under contract with TB at a very modest salary through 2008, with a team option for 2009. One of the biggest problems for small market teams is that they can’t afford to hold on to their best players, and fans become disenfranchised waiting for their star players to leave. TB has actually managed to keep their star offensive player for a while at an affordable price. It’s very unlikely that they will part with him. Even if they did, they would expect a king’s ransom in return.
I think Pierre is a more likely option than any of those 3, but I don’t think Braves are likely to get him either. Ultimately, the Braves know that they are already as good offensively as any team in the league, and their much more concerned with bolstering their pitching staff.
By Lew
October 10, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
Please People-We are not going to get Carl Crawford. God, even Mark Bowman on the Braves site is becoming delusional on this point. Carl Crawford is NOT A LEADOFF HITTER. He bats second or third. He is one of the few players the DRays can count on and he’s still cheap. They won’t trade him. KC-I sure hope you were having a whimsical attack with your nine pickup ideas. Dude, the only ones on that list that are even vague possibilities are Helms OR Conine. Kline? Really? I’d rather try John Thomson as a set up guy. Pierre is not going to be any kind of priority. BC has stated he doesn’t think we need a classic leadoff hitter and JS says he will concentrate on pitching. Schmidt hates pitching at Turner field and if you look at his career numbers, he does not pitch well here. Look at this years results when he pitched against the Braves. Zito-Haven’t we had enough of A’s pitchers? Hudson has not shone and Mulder hasn’t either for the Cards. This should tell you something. Baez wants to close and someone will give him a chance. Not the Braves. Soriana is a pipe dream at best for many reasons. About $18-20 million of them. Look instead for maybe Marcus going home to San Diego in return for pitching. SD needs bats AND a second baseman. They have pitching. That’s what we really need.
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this
The Braves offense was in the top 3 or 4 in scoring runs in 2006 but they struggled to win one run games. That is where a guy, who gets on base and has speed, at the top of the order would help. The Braves had no problem scoring runs in bunches, but when they needed one run, they could not manufacture it.
The Braves also need one more solid starting pitcher. Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Ramirez and James are all very good picthers. The problem is that Hampton is coming off Tommy John surgery as well as knee surgery. He has not pitched in 2 years. Hudson just had a nightmare season and seems to be just getting worst. Ramirez has not been able to stay healthy for more than 10 starts in a row. Even though Smoltz was very good in 2006, he will be 40 in May. And then our 6th starter, Kyle Davies, just has not proven he belongs in the majors yet.
Now, this rotation could prove to be one of the best, however it also has the potential to be just like the 2006 version. Another solid starter would make me feel a lot better. Even if they had to trade Ramirez. Ramirez may become the consistant 15-18 game winner the Braves thought they had, but it may have to come under a change of scenery.
By KC
October 10, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this
LEW:
How much do you know about Steve Kline my friend?? He has been one of the more reliable setup men in the league for years now. He has a career 3.42 ERA, and he’s one of those guys who just doesn’t blow leads very often.
And as I’ve said multiple times, it was a WISH list man!!! Kline and Helms are probably the only two truly viable options the Braves might have serious interest in. (Conine is certainly an option, but I doubt the Braves would pursue him if they bring Ward back).
The Braves would like to add Schmidt or Pierre, but will outbid considerably for both.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this
BB FAN,
A team’s record in one-run games has nothing to do with having a guy who gets on base and speed hitting at the top of its order. Record in one-run games are a product of luck. Teams that win or lose a lot of one-run games one year will not win or lose as many one-run games the next year.
By Lew
October 10, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
BB Fan-The Braves’ dismal record in one run games was not attributable to lack of a leadoff hitter. It was the result of terrible pitching. Our offense kept us in the games.
By Jeff
October 10, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
All right, A. Jones is a good guy and a future Hall of Famer, but he’s going to be one expensive center fielder. He’ll wind up eating a lot of the $80 million payroll that the Braves are stuck with. The name of the game is pitching, and a team never has enough good pitching on its roster or coming through the pipeline. Jones may fetch a couple of really solid arms and maybe more.
Schuerholz will shop Jones. If he doesn’t, he may be cheating the Braves out of their best chance to acquire top-notch pitching talent.
By KC
October 10, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
LEW:
You could be right. With the emergence of Meredith and Cassidy in their bullpen, they might be willing to part with Linebrink.
I just noticed something… the Padres have 15 players this year who are eligible for free agency. 15!!!!! Something tells me they’ll have a different look next season.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
Lew,
Record in one-run games tells us nothing about a team’s overall ability. Bullpen may have something to do with it. There may be some other factors. But mostly a team’s record in one-run games is luck.
By KC
October 10, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
BBFAN:
Like you, I would very much like to see a solid leadoff man who is well suited for the job in the Braves’ lineup. However, I think Atlanta’s lack of success in one-run games had nearly everything to do with pitching. If the Atlanta pitching, especially the bullpen, had done it’s job, then most of those games would have ended with Atlanta on top by 2-3 runs or more.
As to Mike Hampton… yes, he’s coming off of Tommy John surgery, but the only reason that’s often an issue for pitchers is that they come back after only 12 months. Doctors say it takes a full 18 months for pitchers to recover from Tommy John surgery. That will be exactly the length of time Hampton will have had to recover when spring training rolls around. It is very rare these days for Tommy John surgery to have any lasting effects on a player past that 18 month mark. I wouldn’t worry too much about Hampton’s health… no one in the Braves organization is.
John Smoltz will be 40, but he’s showed no signs of slowing… not in the least. His body is holding up just fine, and his stuff is as nasty as ever. True, Smoltzy can’t keep doing this (at this level) forever, but there’s every reason to believe that he’ll be able to do it for at least another year or two before he starts to show any real signs of age.
You are correct that Tim Hudson had a nightmare season. However, I think it’s asinine the way people keep talking about him like this was only the latest step in his decline. In 2005 for the Braves, Hudson finished with 14 wins that would have been at least 18 with even so much as an average bullpen behind him (same with Smoltz this year… Smoltzy should have won 20-plus), and a 3.52 ERA. That ERA put him in the top 15% of all major league starters. This year, it would have been good enough to place him in the top 7% of MLB starters. Yeah, everyone was hoping to see him compete for a CY Young in Atlanta his first year here, but come on!!!! If you can hold major hitters to 3-1/2 runs per 9 innings, you are one hell of a pitcher.
Please lets get this straight… IT WAS ONE BAD YEAR!!! Nothing more. It was the first bad season of his career. No one will deny that Tim Hudson sucked overall in 2006. But based on prior performance, and the fact that he still showed brilliance sporadically throughout this season, including his last start… there’s every reason to look for Hudson to come back strong. Tim Hudson had some mechanical inconsistencies this year that led to inconsistent control issues. He’s only 30, and his stuff is still there. If anyone wants to bet that his ERA will be over 4.00 again next year… I’ll gladly accept that wager.
I agree with you that HoRam’s injury proneness is a concern. However, I don’t think a change of scenery will have anything to do with HoRam’s future success or lack of it. He’s just got to stay healthy… plain and simple. I also agree with you about Davies. He’s got a lot of potential, but hasn’t really shown us much just yet.
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
Shaun and Lew,
I understand that the bullpen had something to do with the struggle to win one run games, but not being able to manufacturing runs contributed as well. Then of course, luck has something to do it as well.
The bullpen was a lot better after Wickman was acquired, but the Braves still struggled to win those one run games. And that’s because without speed at the top of the lineup getting on base, they could not manufacture a run when only one was needed. They had to wait for the big 2 out hit or the 3 run homer. Well, as you saw, guys go into slumps and don’t always come through with two outs. Speed at the top of the order is important when it comes to winning close games…just as important as pitching. And both have as much to do with it as luck does.
By journalist jimmy smith
October 10, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this
toes. that’s right, toes. “Cliff Floyd’s injured left foot will be the focus when the New York Mets work out Tuesday ahead of the NL championship series opener against St. Louis, and general manager Omar Minaya acknowledged it would be a risk to keep the outfielder on the roster.”
“Floyd reinjured his foot (read:toes) during Saturday’s first-round clincher at Los Angeles when he ran hard to score from first on a double. While the Mets described the injury then as a strained left Achilles’ tendon, Minaya said the team’s medical staff treated Floyd’s ankle on Monday.”
everyone knows it is toes. toes are not to be trifled with.
will esteemed cliff floyd wear one of pedro’s big red shoes today? has the red goose shoe representative been called? what can be done with a playoff-time toe injury? oh, the humanity!
now, tom glavine … which tom glavine will we see?
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
KC, I hope Hudson can turn it around and it would not surprise me if he does. However, there has been a steady decline since 2003. Some of it has been injury and some bad performance, but there has been a decline.
Ramirez boggles my mind. The guy just can not stay healthy and consistant. I think he will become a solid # 3 starter. Hopefully it’s with teh Braves. But he will probably make $3.5 - $4 million this year through arbitration. That’s a lot for a team with a self imposed cap of $80 million. Especially when the team needs consistant, healthy starts.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
BB FAN,
Yes, not “manufacturing” runs may have had something to do with losing so many one-run games, but it was mostly just bad luck.
If a team is set up to blow out its opponents, its not going to have to worry about one-run games.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
BB Fan,
All you can do is build your offense around hitters that don’t make many outs (i.e. high on-base percentage) and hitters with power and you should score plenty of runs. Build your pitching staff around pitchers that don’t walk a lot of guys, don’t give up a lot of homeruns and stikeout a decent amount of hitters, and a defense that gets to a lot of batted balls and you should prevent a lot of runs.
If you build a team around “manufacturing” runs, you aren’t going to score too much.
By KC
October 10, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this
BBFAN:
If you want to call going from extraordinary to great a decline, go right ahead. Keep in mind that Hudson’s only had two seasons where he posted an ERA of under 3.00. That’s what everyone’s expected of him each year since. That might not be entirely realistic. An ERA in the mid or lower 3.00 range is still “ace” territory. His ERA in 2005 was pretty well on par with his career ERA heading into last season with the Braves.
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
You can not set up a major league team to blow out every opponent! I hope you were kidding with that statement. No team in the majors will blow out every team they play. There will be close games.
A team needs to be able to manufacture runs because there are always going to be those close games in baseball. Sure, there will be nights the Braves win or lose 13-2 or 13-8, but there will also be the 2-1 or 8-7 games. Those are the games that they need to manufacture a run to either tie it or go ahead. Having a speedy guy that gets on base alot helps.
By Braves 20
October 10, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this
DOB - I generally agree with you on things but “Damn you Kyle Farnsworth??” Here’s an interesting exercise for the off-season. Pull out a tape of Farnsworth’s eighth inning last October against Houston and then view a tape of our inning against Borowski late in this season - remarkably similiar - both cases the guys threw five or six outs and the defense (or in our case both the defense and the umps) did not perform. That was a team loss not one you can lay solely at the feet of Mr. Farnsworth - who, had we re-signed him would have made the difference between playing and sitting at home in October this year. His numbers last year were remarkably similiar to Wickman’s this year. Either guy all year and we’re in the playoffs.
By KC
October 10, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this
BBFAN: To follow up on my last post…
As you mentioned, injury did play a role in Hudson’s 2004, 2005 seasons. There was a 2/10 of a run difference between Hudson’s ‘05 ERA and his career ERA heading into that season. I think you can easily attribute that much to the fact that he was playing hurt last much of last season.
2006 was it man. This was the only bad season of his career. As I mentioned, he’s still young, has lost any of his stuff, and has a “mad as hell” determination to prepare himself this winter to get back to his former dominance.
To tell you the truth, I would be shocked if he doesn’t have a good season next year.
By Alan
October 10, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
To KC and others compiling lists: How can you not include Dave Roberts as a potential leadoff man? He’s the only Padre who hit in the NLDS - plus he plays left field. Some of your other suggestions make sense - Kline and Helms among them - but there’s no way the Braves are going to get in a bidding war for Soriano - and you’re all delusional if you think the Braves are going to steal Crawford from the Devil Rays for guys like Davies, T. Pena and Salty. It kills me that everyone is raving about Salty, who just had a very ordinary year in the low minors. Do you really think the D-Rays are going to give away a budding superstar for 3 or 4 unproven players?! No way! Now, if Giles and Ho-Ram are part of the package, along with Davies and Salty, then something may happen. Otherwise, get over it, already. Now a little note about Joe Torre. It cracks me up when folks compare him with Bobby Cox and say how much better he is. Really? What does he do? All game, he sits like a zombie in the same spot on the bench with his water bottle, alternatingly unscrewing the cap, sipping, and rescrewing the cap. He never changes his expression, no matter what, almost never argues a call, never double-switches (which doesn’t exist in the AL) - all he does is walk (verrry slowly) to and from the mound to change pitchers (verrry frequently this past season). But he’s a genius. Not in this millennium.
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
That’s why the Braves would benefit from a speedy guy that gets on base alot. They already score with the best of them. And if they add the ability to manufacture runs then they will be even better.
The ability to manufacture runs protects a team when your power hitters are slumping. Because no matter how good a hittter is, he will slump at some point during the season because they are all human. Sometimes it’s an unjury, sometimes the “dog days of August,” other times it’s personal matters outside of baseball. It’s a part of the game because it is played by humans.
By Phat Bat Boy
October 10, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this
Batting lead-off for the Atlanta Braves, Dave Roberts. Bet on it!
And let’s trade Hudson and Giles to the Yankees for Cano and change. Reduce payroll and get a great young 2B. Move Renteria to 8th in the line-up and we’re good to go.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this
BB FAN,
No team is going to blow out every opponent every game, but you can set yourself up to score more runs than anyone. Look at the Red Sox—they’ve built their offense the last few years around hitters that don’t make many outs and hitters with power. And what do they get? Well, from 2003-2005 they were among the most prolific run-scoring teams of all time. They certainly didn’t try to “manufacture” runs one at a time. They may have played for a single run when they had to have only one run, but they didn’t play for one run at a time. The best way to manufacture runs is by avoiding outs as long as possible and gaining as many bases in as few plate appearances as possible.
By KC
October 10, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this
Alan, my list was a free agent wish list. That’s why Robert’s wasn’t on it.
Dave Roberts was an excellent leadoff man this season, however 2006 was by far the best season of his career, so it remains to be seen if he can duplicate his success. That said, if the Braves could get him without giving up too much in return, that would be great. But I don’t think that will be the case. The Padres often said “as Dave Roberts goes, so goes our offense”. With that in mind, I’m not sure how willing the Padres will be to part with him.
And please keep in mind that it was WISH list. I know the Braves aren’t going to win or even engage in a bidding war for Soriano. I stated that next to his name in that list. Also, I’m not sure if the “delusional” comment was directed toward me, but I never said anything about the Braves getting Crawford, except to say that it’s not going to happen.
By NLCHAMPS
October 10, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this
I’m picking the A’s in seven and the NY Mets in six……any comments or complaints please post them.
By Stinky
October 10, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Shaun, do you have the mathematical skills to back up your statements about luck in one run games? Or do you just spout cheap verbage you picked up in a book in the free bin at the library?
Is there a statistic for the batting averages of guys hitting behind leadoff hitters with 50 or more stolen bases? Is there a correlation between the number of fastballs a number two hitter gets to sit on and the the number of stolen bases of the leadoff hitter? The presence of speed gives a team so many options, it’s impossible to quantify every single nuance that it brings to the game.
And
If Bill James is so smart, how come he was the last person to be drafted for Viet Nam in his state?
By KC
October 10, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this
Phat Bat Boy:
The Braves aren’t trading Tim Hudson. Their emphasis is on pitching and the Braves organization as a whole seems convinced that he’s still got it, and that he’ll come back strong next season. The Braves would have to get an impressive offer that would include some good young pitching to consider trading Hudson. (please see my 10:24 and 10:53 posts).
He’s isn’t going anywhere. Look for a strong season from Huddy in ‘07.
And why in the world would we move Renteria to the 8th slot??? He’s a proto-typical number-2 hitter. He belongs there. The only reason I would consider moving Renteria would be if the Braves were going to keep Giles who is also a classic number-2 hitter.
By KC
October 10, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
ALAN:
I stand corrected. It looks like Dave Robert may in fact be a free agent soon. I didn’t realize that he was eligible for free agency.
Yes, Roberts would be high up on my list of free agents to pursue, just so long as we don’t have to grossly overpay for him (which Atlanta never does anyway).
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this
Shaun, Boston could score one run when they needed to. They had Johnny Damon at the top of the lineup. Sure, they scored a lot of runs those years but they could manufacture runs as well. When they needed one run to tie, they got it because they COULD and DID manufacture runs when they had to. This season just proves my point even more. W/O Damon this year, Boston could not win as consistantly.
If a team wins 13-4 one night but loses 4-3 the next night, they will likely lead the league in runs with 16 in two games, however, their record is only 1-1. Now if a team wins 5-4 and 6-4, then they only scored 11 runs but are 2-0.
Both scenarios have the same team ERA but not the same record. The team that scores the most runs does not always have the best record. If a team can not manufacture a extra run or two to win the close games, they will not win consistantly.
A speedy hitter that gets on base also gets the next hitters more fastballs. So not only does he give a team the ability to manufacture runs, he makes it easier for the hitters behind him.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this
BB FAN,
My point is Boston did not build their team around “manufacturing” runs. And, you are right, the team that scores the most doesn’t always win—but the team with the best run differential usually has the best record or at least is good enough to make the playoffs. How do you increase run differential? By scoring a lot of runs and preventing your opponents from scoring a lot of runs.
And obviously speed helps, but it’s not a necessity. I’m all for getting a fast guy with great on-base skills to leadoff, but I don’t thing the Braves should overpay or give up a lot of quality players for a guy like Carl Crawford.
By ncscoots
October 10, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this
BB, there’s a pretty simple way to prove or disprove your notion that a base-stealing threat “manufactures” runs. Take any base-stealing threat you want, and, for each inning in which they stole a base: (1) for each inning in which the team scored one run only, plus one, i.e., the run would not have scored without the stolen base; (2) for each inning in which the team scored more than one run, zero, i.e., the stolen base was meaningless since the baserunner would have scored without having stolen (3) for each inning in which the base stealer was caught, and the team scored at least one run, minus one, i.e., the caught-stealing cost a run. Add up your totals and we’ll see how many runs over the course of a year were directly attributable to stolen bases and how many runs the attempt to steal cost (this is actually weighted toward stealing, since there is no accomodation for the higher difficulty in scoring runs with fewer outs, or for runners scoring from first on an extra-base hit without a steal). Without doing the numbers, I can pretty much guarantee that the percentage of runs “manufactured” versus number of runs scored in a season is going to be miniscule.
By Alan
October 10, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this
Thanks, KC, for adding D. Roberts to your list. He should be at the top, perhaps along with Kline. Those who claim the Braves’ lineup is “fine” are wrong. The Braves do, in fact, need more speed and the top of the order is where to start (pun definitely intended). That’s what was missing most this year without Furcal, and a guy like Roberts (or Pierre - please, not Lofton) would add a lot to the offense. Roberts is a much better defender than Pierre, although his arm is not terrific, either, but it’s adequate. He also seems like a good guy, who would fit in the Braves’ clubhouse. I agree with everyone about improving the starting pitching, and I believe Hampton is going to bounce back. I’m also praying that Hudson bounces back, but I’m not at all confident. So, adding Schmidt and/or Zito would be terrific. However, I don’t see it happening - not with the payroll constraints - unless the Braves do trade Hudson and Giles and maybe even Andruw. I, for one, do not want to see Andruw go - that would be a huge mistake - how on earth would they replace his offense and his defense? IMO, Andruw must stay at least through the ‘07 season.
By ncscoots
October 10, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
BB, while you assert that a speedy man on first gets a hitter more fastballs, you neglect the point that a stolen base takes away a large hole on the right side, when the 1B no longer has to hold the runner on. Those two factors tend to negate each other, don’t ya think?
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this
Stinky,
I’m sure there is a way to quantify how speed helps hitters behind a speed demon. I suspect speed does help in a lot of different ways. I just don’t think it’s a necessity; there are a lot of teams throughout baseball history that scored plenty of runs without a 30-, 40-, 50-steals leadoff guy. I don’t think the Braves should overpay or give up a lot of quality players for one “prototypical” leadoff guy.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
BB,
Even if you assume that “manufacturing” runs works, you still have to have baserunners, so it’s still better to build your team around guys who don’t make outs (i.e., get on base).
By Tony Austin
October 10, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this
A base stealer steals bases, but IMO it’s the threat of the stolen base that weighs big. The hitter gets more fast balls to hit, and then a base hit gets runners on 1st and 3rd, and then a fly ball scores a run, etc. Remember as Skip and them used to say, “As Furcal goes so does the Braves.” I think the Braves missed Furcal this year more than anyone wants to imagine. So, I think the Braves do need a speedster in the everyday lineup. The threat of a stolen base is just as good, if not better, than the stolen base itself.
Later fellow bloggers.
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
There’s not a team that would “build” their whole team around being able to manufacture a run at a time. Of course multiple runs are normally needed to win most games. However, a team should be able to manufacture a run when the hitters are not hitting. Because over 162 games, that happens.
And I never suggested that the Braves should mortgage the future to get a Crawford. It would take a load of talent to get him and he is not even a lead off hitter. He hates leading off and therefore rarely does. Signing a Dave Roberts would be a lot better because he will probably only make 2-3 million a year.
And of course you need baserunners. That’s is a given.
ncscoots,
It would not be possible to figure that out over a 162 game season. You would only be able to count the 1 run games. Over a course of a full season, it would not make that much of a difference. But in individual close games, it could mean THE difference. If a team goes 20-30 in one run games, it could possibly turn it into a 30-20 record. It’s those 30-50 close games that it will make a huge difference in. And they are not as likely to hold a slow runner as closely as a speedy guy. It’s not just the stolen base, it’s the threat. It takes the picther’s mind off from the hitter. It messes with the defense, ect.
By KC
October 10, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
ALLEN:
“Those who claim the Braves’ lineup is “fine” are wrong.”
The Braves run total was second only to the Phillies in the NL (as was their team batting AVG.). However, if you take into account that the Phillies play in a big-time hitter’s park, where as the Braves play in a pitcher’s park… that’s more than enough to account for the 16 runs that separated the two teams (in total runs scored).
What I’m saying is that the Braves were the best offensive team in the league this year. How can you not say that the offense is “fine”. It is. I don’t see how you can say otherwise. What I think you’re trying to say is that Atlanta’s lineup isn’t without flaw, and I would agree with that.
I think the Braves should offer Dave Roberts a contract, though again, I’m apprehensive about whether or not he’ll be able to duplicate his success from this season. 2006 was something of a career year for him. If the Braves could get Juan Pierre, I definitely think they should, but he’ll likely receive an offer in the 9-10 million a season range from the Cubs, and I don’t think the Braves would offer him any more than 6-7 or maaaaybe 8 million per season. If we can get a true leadoff hitter, all the better. But Atlanta isn’t having any trouble putting runs on the board as it is.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
BB FAN,
I agree, but I think Diaz has done a fine job in left. And Langerhans is a fine fourth outfielder. I don’t see that the Braves need to make a lot of changes to their offense unless they trade Andruw Jones or Marcus Giles or another key offensive player. You wouldn’t expect a big decline out of anyone, and Francouer is likely to improve. They may not finish in the top three in runs scored, but I see no reason why they can’t finish in the top 5 or 6. And the pitching should allow fewer runs.
I don’t think the Braves need to do that much in terms of offense unless they can get a lot of quality players for Andruw and/or Marcus Giles.
By KC
October 10, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this
“BB, while you assert that a speedy man on first gets a hitter more fastballs, you neglect the point that a stolen base takes away a large hole on the right side, when the 1B no longer has to hold the runner on. Those two factors tend to negate each other, don’t ya think?”
ncscoots: Does that mean you consider a single every bit as good as the double? No, those two factors don’t negate each other. It’s always desirable to get your guy in scoring position. That’s why there is a thing called the “sacrifice bunt”. When you’re standing on 2nd, now one of the middle infielders has to hold you on, creating a hole somewhere else.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
KC,
Well said! The Braves probably aren’t going to score runs at the same pace as last year, but they are fine offensively. There’s no reason to believe they can’t finish in the top five in runs scored.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
KC,
Actually the advantage you get by sacrificing a runner from first to second is more than negated by the fact that you are using up an out. That’s not to say you shouldn’t attempt a sacrifice against a bad defensive team or with a fast hitter or when the hitter is bad and more likely to hit into a double play. But a successful first-to-second sac is going to decrease a teams chances to score because they’ve used up an out. (Check out Baseball Between the Numbers. They have a whole chapter about sacrificing and using up outs to advance runners. They list probabilites of scoring in all baserunner, out and inning situations.)
By KC
October 10, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this
Shaun:
Thanks, but I’m curious… why would you say “The Braves probably aren’t going to score runs at the same pace as last year”?
I don’t see how this lineup will be diminished in any way. I think Guys like Francoeur and LaRoche are only going to build on their 2006 efforts. Marcus Giles is a much better player than he showed this year, but it won’t be hard to replace his 2006 numbers. And other than Giles, this lineup will the same with the possible exception of adding a leadoff hitter, in which case it would be better.
By The Grinch
October 10, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this
Morning. Tony Austin beat me to my comment: While stolen bases are nice, having someone who is a legitimate threat to steal on base often rattles the pitcher and makes him less effective. Do Y’all not remember when Nixon was out with an injury back in ‘91 and EVERYONE kept talking about how screwed the Braves were without his speed element? Then Dion showes up in that first big game without Nixon, steals second and third his first time on base and the other team’s pitcher was so rattled he fell apart? You could feel it in the crowd, you could see him sweat profusely…etc. It’s not only effective, it’s exciting whether the guy runs or not.
KC, while I won’t bet on an ERA over 4 for Hudson, I’ll bet you a six-pack it’s closer to 4 than 3.5. If you take it it’s a bet I hope you win, but I don’t think you will. “Mad as hell” is not a term that describes Hudson to me; after he sucks he usually has that “How come I always get picked last for dodgeball” look on his face, like a whipped puppy. I’d LOVE to see him actually get mad.
By rammerjammer
October 10, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Looks to me like Andruw is waiting for JS to show him a little love (i.e., money). Wouldn’t it be cool if they worked out a long-term contract extension during the off-season?
Backload that sucker to move the heaviest payoff dates past Chipper, Hampton and Hudson’s big payoff years to make it more affordable. He wants to play until he’s 40…sign him for 10 years then.
Regarding Giles…what team needs a second baseman and has what we need in return? Marcus might move to SD, but the Padres’ #2-rated prospect just finished his first season at 2B so it’s unlikely they’d kick him to the curb.
Regarding leadoff…I’m not so enthused about Roberts. He’ll be 35 next May and in eight ML seasons has never had as many as 500 ABs.
Old age (relatively speaking, of course) and lack of durability are a concern, and one would think he is looking for a long-term, finish-his-career-in-one-place contract.
Plus, the guy went to high school in San Diego (kinda their version of Francoeur). Just don’t see SD letting him walk.
By brian
October 10, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
DOB-
Which top prospects and young major leaguers are headed to winter ball and where?
It would sure be nice to see Salty and Davies get back on track!
By KC
October 10, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
Shaun:
That makes sense (about sacrificing runners). I’m not sure I’m totally convinced on that point, but it’s an interesting thought. I read Build To Win (JS’s book), but that’s the only baseball reading I’ve done in a while. Don’t have that time. If there is a very specific statistic on that in Baseball Between the Numbers, I would be interested to see it.
You would have to take other things into account as well, such as the hitter propensity to hit into double plays.
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
KC and Shaun,
The Braves run total over the full season in 2006 was great. Yes, I’ll agree with that. HOWEVER, it was hit or miss. They would score 10 runs a game for 10 games then score 2 runs a game for 10 games. That is where the ability to manufacture runs comes in. No offense can consistantly put up 6 or 7 runs every single game. It DOES NOT happen. It WON’T happen.
You guys are looking at the overall run production. Not the fact that there were numerous games that the Braves could not score a run if their lives depended on it.
Everybody remembers those 8-10 game stretches where the Braves scores 8-10 runs every time out. Nobody remembers all the games they had trouble scoring 1-3 runs. Well, they only averaged ~ 5.2 runs a game…so that means for every 8-10 run game, there was a 1-3 run game!
No team scores their average output every game. That is where the ability to manufacture runs comes in.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
KC,
Yeah, I forgot Giles. I don’t know. Maybe they will repeat. My point was, they shouldn’t drop off significantly on offense. They were just so good this year, I don’t know if they can repeat it next year. But they just may.
By KC
October 10, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this
Grinch:
There’s no faster way to greatly misjudge the internal drive or motivation of a player than by trying to read his face.
Tim Hudson is good at keeping his composure even when he wants to throw a water cooler across the dugout. You see Tim Hudson’s fire when someone makes a great play in the field behind him to get him out of a jam. You’ll almost always see him pump his fist and scream. When he’s upset, he doesn’t let it show publicly, and that’s good.
Just because he’s not audibly swearing as he leaves the mound after a bad start or when the bullpen blows a lead, it doesn’t mean he isn’t mad.
Grinch, I’ll happily accept your bet. Do you live in the Atlanta area? If so, we can bet a beer at a ball game late next season.
By ncscoots
October 10, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
KC, I wasn’t trying to say that a runner on second isn’t better than a runner on first, sheesh. That wasn’t the point of the conversation in the first place. It was the extolling of the the threat of speed as an advantage to a subsequent hitter. I merely pointed out that “advantage” can be canceled out by other tactical situations related to the same runner and the same skills.
And you aren’t seriously saying that a 2B cheating toward the bag is the same as as 1B STANDING on the bag, are you? Didn’t think so…
By Braves 20
October 10, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
BB FAN - Manufacture runs? You are aware we are talking about a team managed by Bobby Cox here. But put me down for Dave Roberts in left just the same.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
BB FAN,
Things basically even out. You are right, no team is going to be as good as there highest run output in a game, but neither are they as bad as their lowest run output in a game.
I don’t know for sure, but I would guess the Braves, and most other teams, scored close to their average per game in most games.
It would be interesting to find out if the Braves scored fewer than four runs a game and where they rank. I bet they rank pretty high in fewest games scoring fewer than four runs. You can run those numbers on baseball-reference.com as soon as they update it.
By ncscoots
October 10, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
maybe TPaul can re-post the breakdown of runs-scored-by-game for BB. Think we did that once in regard to this same discussion, but it’s worth seeing again. TP?
By TommyB
October 10, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
Amen to Tony Austin and Grinch. Scary baserunners cause pitcher meltdown without ever having to steal a base.
Grinch’s example is still etched in my mind, and has been duplicated through many other examples before and since. But Otis… Wow.
By KC
October 10, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
BBFAN:
Of course you’re right. The Braves had ebb and flow periods, but I think every team does. I think every team goes through frustrating stretches where they can’t score runs, and every team gets hot for a week or two at a time. It’s just that the good offensive teams are on more than they are off, and when they’re on, they score more runs than most.
That said, I certainly agree that the ability to manufacture runs is important. That’s especially true when you’re up against great pitching. There are going to be days when you’re up against a B.Webb or a Chris Carpenter, and you’re going to have to win 1-0 or 2-1. In those instances, it is extremely valuable to have players that can help you play small ball. The ability to play small ball will be invaluable in October when winning teams are all throwing almost nothing but the top of their rotation at you. Great pitching beats great hitting. If you can score runs without having to hit “great”, then you have an advantage.
I’m with you 100%. I’m just saying that I think the Braves offense is already better than most all the way around. So I do think their offense is “fine”… more than fine in fact. That doesn’t mean I don’t think the Braves should try to improve it, and I don’t think JS sees it that way either. It’s just that their first priority is to make sure the pitching is where they want it. But I wouldn’t be surprised the Braves make a run at D.Roberts or Pierre.
By ncscoots
October 10, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
BB, it isn’t “impossible to figure for a 162-game season”, I just didn’t want to do it myself. You (and many others on the blog, believe me) are calling for a base-stealing threat as a upgrade to the Braves’ offense, so I assumed you would want to prove your point. But that’s OK…pick a guy and I’ll do the math, post the methodology, etc. Not that I think it will change anyone’s mind, but, what the hey, maybe I AM the one who’s mistaken (but in this case I doubt it).
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
Someone needs to find the mode of the Braves runs scoring. Just going through the results, it looks like the Braves scored 4 or 5 runs most often.
By The Grinch
October 10, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
KC, I do live in the Atlanta area and it’s a deal. Like I said, I hope you win. I’m not a Hudson hater; I just don’t have much confidence in him. I hope he proves me wrong. Maybe a few of us could all get together for a game next year if we plan far enough in advance.
TommyB, that game I mentioned was so tense (back in the days when the whole city was rabid over the team), I remember I was working second shift in a machine shop at the time and everyone was wearing headphones and trying to work at the same time. Production slipped down so far the supervisor finally walked out around the seventh inning and said “ok, everyone, f-it; stop what you’re doing ‘till the game’s over. Someone’s gonna lose a finger any minute and I’d rather get fired over a ballgame than that.” Those were the good ol’ days (baseball-wise; manual labor sucks).
By TennesseePaul
October 10, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this
The Braves’ dismal record in one run games was not attributable to lack of a leadoff hitter. It was the result of terrible pitching
I had to post this. I haven’t read the rest, but this statement is true. You can look at the 1 run record and it would seem to imply that we need more speed on the base paths. But then, you must look at those one run games. The majority of them were 4 runs or more scored by the Braves. And a whole slew of them were one run losses after the Brave battled back from a big hole. That is to say, the Braves were down 7 nothing, and came back and lost it 8 to 9. We need more pitching. Well, I should be more specific. We need more reliable pitching. Better pitching. We had tons of pitching this year. 12 starters. But only 1 of them was good for the entire season. 1 good for half the season and the rest off and on, to completely off.
By Shaun
October 10, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
Actually a team’s record in one-run games is almost entirely a result of luck. Teams that lose or win a lot of one-run games one year, don’t repeat that performance in one-run games the following year. There seems to be little or nothing that would predict how a team will perform or to indicate why a team performed they way they did in one-run games. If the Braves brought back the exact same team, or made no significant improvements, we would expect them to do better in one-run games.
By KC
October 10, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
I think we should go after the following leadoff men, in order:
1 - Juan Pierre: His on-base percentage has been sporadic throughout his career, but he atones for it with the havoc he wreaks on the base paths. He has a weak throwing arm, but that’s not as big an issue in LF as it would be in Center. He also has good range and decent hands. The Braves will most likely be outbid for his services, but they should try nonetheless (and probably will).
2 – Dave Roberts: As long as he’s reasonably priced, he would be a nice fit, and obviously if we can sign a free agent leadoff man, we don’t have to give up talent as we will if we go the trade route.
3 – Brian Roberts: If the Braves can get their leadoff guy at 2B instead of LF, that would be preferable because I for one don’t want to see a .327 hitter (Matt Diaz) traded or benched. Also, if LF and 1B are both settled full-time, then Scott Thorman is stuck at AAA or on the bench, and he’s ready for a regular opportunity in the big leagues. Brian Roberts gives a solid leadoff guy while allowing us to leave a very productive LF alone.
4 – Ryan Freel: Good young leadoff hitter. We’d have to give up some significant talent to get him though.
5 – Kenny Lofton: If all else fails, there’s always the universal MLB backup plan for a leadoff hitter… Kenny Lofton. Even if we didn’t use him in an everyday role, I’d like to have him on the team. At least we would have one legitimate stolen base threat. When he’s not starting, he could be a very valuable pinch-hitter/runner. And he should only cost 3-4 million for one season. Not bad for a player of his abilities.
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
The Braves scored 3 runs or less ~57 times in 2006. That’s more than 1/3 of their games. The ability to manufacture runs is important. However, it’s not just the games they score less than 4 runs in. It’s important in one run games as well. They played in ~ 62 games where it was decided by one run. Again, being able to manufacture one more run would come in handy.
ncscoots,
Being able to manufacture runs does not only include a stolen base either. It includes the pitcher losing concentration on the hitter because he is thinking about the guy at first. It’s the defenseive alignments, it’s the catcher’s pysche, it’s a lot of things. You can not account for all of those things. Those are intangibles. They can not really be kept track of by stats.
Also, it’s not crucial in all 162 games of the season. BIt’s more crucial in close games or low scoring ones.
DOn’t get me wrong, statistics are a big part of baseball, but it’s not the only thing important in deciding games. Intangibles are very important.
By KC
October 10, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
GRINCH:
That sounds great. I’d enjoy hooking up for a ballgame.
As for the wager, let’s say we shoot for a game in the final home-stand next year. If by that time Hudson’s ERA is over 3.75 (since you said his ERA will be closer to 4.00 than 3.50), I owe you a drink. If it’s under 3.75, you’re buying! How’s that sound?
By Rick Roberts
October 10, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
Why not go after A-Rod?? He would flourish under Bobby Cox in Atlanta and bring consistency to the offense. We have Hudson and some other players the Yanks could use. Again, trade AJ and CJ—Giles and Thomson go as free agents. Deal with the Angels—the best match-up of talent for a win-win for both teams—our best place to find a lead-off hitter and speed.
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
As important as luck is in baseball, it’s not the defining thing in one run games. Maybe on a damn computer game, but not in real life. Speed and better pitching has an effect as well. And those things can depend on a team’s or a players’s psyche. Baseball, actually any sport, has a lot of human aspects involved in deciding the game.
By Lew
October 10, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this
KC-I still would rather see what Thomson (at a MUCH reduced price) could do in the set up role. If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Kline pitch for the Braves several years ago. Haven’t the Braves had 3 or 4 oppurtunities to pick him up as a free agent and declined to do so? Maybe that should tell you something about the Brtaves’ attitude towards him. Yes, I realize that it was a wish list. BB FAN- Here’s a quote from BC in the Sept. issue of Chop Talk-” People talk about getting a leadoff hitter. I don’t think it’s the biggest thing in baseball to have a classic leadoff hitter. There are so few of those guys around. Nowadays baseball is played differently. There’s so much long ball.” I won’t debate you about the virtues of having a true leadoff hitter, because it won’t matter anyway. I think BC’s and the Braves’ attitudes on the subject are pretty well covered in that statement. I really don’t espect to see Carl Crawford (who is NOT a leadoff hitter, y’all) or Juan Pierre as a Brave.
By TennesseePaul
October 10, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
As per ncscoots request…
The Low Down
1-Run run differential
Overall: 19-33
Set Loses Percent of 1-Run games
1 or fewer RS: 4 12%
2 or fewer RS: 8 24%
3 or fewer RS: 13 39%
4 or more RS: 20 61%
5 or more RS: 13 39%
6 or more RS: 7 21%
Runs Scored Records
Set Record % of games this season
0 RS: 0-4 2.5% 1 or less RS: 0-12 7.4%
2 or less RS: 8-25 20.4%
3 or less RS: 15-42 35.2%
4 or more RS: 64-41 64.8%
5 or more RS: 55-25 49.4%
6 or more RS: 44-15 36.4%
7 or more RS: 35-7 25.9%
8 or more RS: 31-4 21.6%
9 or more RS: 25-3 17.3%
10 or more RS: 21-0 13%
Hope this helps. I’m nearly 100% certian I got that right. I could have a typo in there. though
By KC
October 10, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
Rick Roberts:
There has been much discussion about A-Rod here lately, and it seems extremely unlikely that anything would ever happen to bring him to Atlanta. The Yankees won’t be looking to trade him this winter, and even if they were, I’m not sure the Braves would be interested.
We already have a Shortstop, and while A-Rod would be an upgrade, he A-Rod would present significant payroll complications for Atlanta.
The Braves are not looking to move Tim Hudson. He is still young and hasn’t lost any of his stuff. This year was the first and only bad year of his career, and the Brave seem to feel (and I agree with them) that Huddy’s 2006 season was a fluke. for some strange reason, he had some mechanical problems this year that led to control problems at times. I just don’t think the Braves will be looking to deal Hudson. I think they would only consider doing so if they got a top-tier starter to replace him.
As for the Jones’ boys… both are “10-5 players” and can veto any trade the Braves might try to make.
Deal with the Angels? For who?
By rammerjammer
October 10, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
I haven’t heard one thing from JS that even remotely indicates finding a leadoff man is on his radar screen.
He’s gonna fix the pitching. He’s counting on Smoltz, Hampton, Hudson and James to all perform anywhere from average to excellent. Doesn’t that foursome compete with anyone else’s rotation?
He wants a fifth quality starter for a variety of reasons, including insurance, if any of the above four don’t meet expectations.
Other than pitching, he has to fish or cut bait with Andruw and Marcus, but he’s given no indication of being concerned about finding a leadoff man.
By KC
October 10, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
LEW:
You must be thinking about someone else. Steve Kline was remarkably successful over a 4 year stint with the Cards from 2001-2004. He posted a 2.69 ERA over his 4 years there.
He then signed a 2 year free agent deal with the Orioles. He pitched there only one year and wasn’t nearly as comfortable there while posting a 4.28 ERA, before being traded to the Giants where he went 4-3 with a 3.66 ERA last year.
He’s a little better than his ERA would suggest (not that 3.66 is bad). He’s one of those guys who handles pressure situations well and rarely gives up a lead.
To answer your question about the Braves passing on him… I don’t think that’s accurate. I guess the Braves could have signed him 2 years ago, but they wouldn’t have had any interest in a 2.5 – 3 million a year reliever. Especially since they thought they already were already settled on Reitsma as their setup man heading into the 05 season.
By TennesseePaul
October 10, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
Payne: That statement should have said it wouldn’t seem. It was a typo. But despite your persistance, I would like to see some more speed in this line up. But the teams most pressing need is quality pitching, which is what my post was about.
By TennesseePaul
October 10, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
Payne: I take that back… at least that typo comment. Now that I re-read my post I remember what I was saying.
But I don’t think, if we put this same team out there next year with no changes, we’d be better in one run losses. Most of thos losses were do to the lack of pitching. We’d have a lead and lose it, or be in a hole and lose it by one. Speed isn’t going to compensate for that.
By KC
October 10, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
rammerjammer:
I’m with you. I think that rotation compares very favorably to any in the league. Even if the Mets sign Schmidt or Zito, I still think the Braves rotation looks better.
One thing though… I don’t think JS is in the market for a 5th starter. We’ve already got Horacio Ramirez, who is capable of being much more than a 5th starter. Should he go down, we’ve still got Davies and Cormier to step in. If the Braves make any changes to their rotation, it will be to add another top-tier (or close to it) starting pitcher. That’s it. I would be shocked if the rotation were altered other than to add another stud.
Personally, I don’t think the rotation will be altered. I think the rotation will be Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James, Ramirez (with Davies and Cormier waiting in the wings).
By KC
October 10, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS FOR NATIONAL MEDIA PERSONEL:
The Yankees may be the most popular team in baseball. However, the fact remains that they are only one team, and that MOST BASEBALL FANS AREN’T YANKEES FANS! WE DON’T GIVE A RAT’S *#%&@# WHO THEIR MANAGER IS, WHY THEY CHOKED OR ANYTHING ELSE!!!!!!
By TennesseePaul
October 10, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
Actually a team’s record in one-run games is almost entirely a result of luck
This is the kind of statement. That may be true over a large data set, ie viewing year in and year out totals over the last 100 years. But we are only looking at the Braves of ‘06. And that record was overwhelmingly decided by pitching. I suppose we could attribute Yates giving up a 2 run homer to blow a run one lead and result in a 1 run loss to luck. But luck, or chance, doesn’t happen this consistantly. Reitsma really, really sucked. It wasn’t a matter of bad luck. He came in and blew hard enough to make a losing game out of 9 runs scored. And he’d do that consistantly.
Scoots had mentioned these records before because speed can make a difference in a close game. Close being the traditional kind, not this seasons kind (i.e. up by 7 runs, lose by 1. As in Chuck James in COL.)
By KC
October 10, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
Meant to say “Personnel” sorry for the typo
By KC
October 10, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
TennPaul:
“I don’t think, if we put this same team out there next year with no changes, we’d be better in one run losses.”
I respectfully disagree. We would be better because young guys like McBride and Yates got better. The season totals were ugly, but by the end of the year, the bullpen wasn’t looking half bad.
Wickman, Yates, McBride, and Paronto is a solid group to build on for next year. Blaine Boyer and John Foster will be healthy and will have a chance to once again earn important roles in the pen. JS will probably also pick up a proven setup man this winter. Put it all together, and I think Atlanta could go from one of the worst bullpens in baseball to one of the best next year.
By The Grinch
October 10, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
KC: sorry, I was out grabbing a bite. Yeah, that sounds like a plan. Watch, his ERA will be about 3.72 and I’ll lose. But like I said, it’s a bet I hope I do lose. We can tell DOB where we’re sitting and moon the press box occasionally. :-)
By rammerjammer
October 10, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
KC,
You may be right about the pitching. Maybe JS does want another top-tier guy. I don’t think he’s comfortable with Davies, Cormier or Ramirez, and he’s already got a four-man rotation that should be very good but any of them could stumble.
DOB also indicated that in the bullpen, the only guys guaranteed jobs are Wickman, Yates and McBride…meaning JS has no confidence in Paronto, Oscar or Devine.
Conclusion…he’s looking for a top-tier starter and another lefty to give McBride some help in the bullpen.
By TennesseePaul
October 10, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
KC: I should have been more clear. If we ran out there with the same set up (Sosa and Thomson in the rotation, James in the Pen with Reitsma and Remlinger) to start the seasona and changed it throughout the season just as we did this season, In short, putting the same team on the field again, we’d be in the same whole.
I agree that McBride turned it around and so did a lot of guys. And if we ran out the team post all-star break, we’d be much better.
By The Grinch
October 10, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
How could he guarantee a job to Yates and not Parantoe? Yates is tall, but he’s not fat. Maybe if he spends his off-season ensconced at the Golden Corral…And could David “Orson” Wells be the starter we go after?
By KC
October 10, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
rammerjammer: I think JS and the Braves are very comfortably with Horacio Ramirez when he’s on the mound. They’ve always had confidence in him, and his 06 numbers are deceptive. He really did show this year exactly how good he’s capable of being (A few bad starts skewed the numbers).
Their concern I’m sure is, can he stay on the mound? He hasn’t turned into Kerry Wood or Mark Prior yet. A relatively healthy season would go a long way to help HoRam shed the “injury prone” label.
As to the bullpen, if DOB left Paronto out, I think he’s mistaken. A 3.19 ERA is plenty good enough to keep your job. Paronto will be used next year as BC used to use Kevin Gryboski… he’ll bring him in mostly with runners on to throw his sinker and get a double play ball.
As for Villareal… I suspect he will be back as the Braves long reliever, a role he excelled in for the most part this season. However, if the Braves do go out an pick up a proven setup man, the bullpen will be getting crowded, and Villareal could be the odd man out.
As for JS looking for another lefty in the pen… John Foster is a lefty who did a good job for the Braves 05 but like Blaine Boyer, was out all of the ’06 season with an injury. He’ll most likely be given an opportunity to be that 2nd lefty in the pen.
If Joey Devine continues to pitch well on the farm, he’ll likely be the first one called up should anyone in the bullpen spend any time on the DL, and he’ll probably be a September call-up. But there probably won’t be a fill time job for him in Atlanta just yet.
By geauxbraves2000
October 10, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this
Look at the common denomintator in the Braves 14 year run and what happened last year. Some of the Braves’ lead off hitters in that span: Deion Sanders, Otis Nixon, Marquis Grissom, Kenny Lofton, Rafael Furcal; all base stealing threats. 2006, Marcus Giles (no offense Giles), not a base stealing threat and therefore no division title. Maybe coincidence, maybe not.
I know the pen is to blame for a lot of 2006 also.
I know the Braves have never mainly been a base stealing team. But the first year without a true leadoff hitter and now the run is over. IMO, especially in the NL, having a quality leadoff is a very important. Not only to leadoff, but also, how many times has a leadoff hitter come to bat after the pitcher has sacrificed a runner into scoring position.
That’s where I stand. Maybe I’m right, maybe I’m wrong, maybe the sun will rise tomorrow, maybe it won’t.
Geaux Braves.
By KC
October 10, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
TennPaul:
Okay, I think I got ya… though that’s almost literally unthinkable. Sosa? Reitsma? Yikes!
By Phat Bat Boy
October 10, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
KC, Scherholtz just signed Hudson to a long-term deal for big bucks. Of course he is going to think that he can recover from his pitching woes. To think otherwise is to admit a mistake. But the fact remains that when you review his last seaosn in Oakland with the first 2 in Atlanta, he is a very average pitcher. That’s a sample of probably 600 innings, not an insignificant number. Maybe other 30-something year old pitchers have found themselves after 3 mediocre years. But when I read that part of his issue was supposedly mechanics, I can’t help but wonder about his mental toughness. I never recall hearing how Maddox, Glavine or Smoltz forgot how to grip the ball or where to release the pitch. Dude is too old to have those mental breakdowns. Dump him NOW. Since music is always discussed on this blog, let me put it this way regarding Hudson…“The Thrill is Gone”.
By BB FAN
October 10, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I have seen that about Cox in the past. However, if he was given the leadoff guy, he wouldn’t mind. He loved having Furcal. Of course him waiting for the 3-run homer is one of the things that irratates me about Cox. I still think he’s a great manager though, Robert!
And when I say a speedy guy that gets on base, it doesn’t have to be the highest paid greatest leadoff hitter out there.
I’m talking about a Dave Roberts type of guy. Somebody who can steal bases so the threat is there as much as the actual stolen bases are. He does not make a lot of money either ($2.2 in 2006).
Hell, even Scott Podsednik would be good. His on base percentage went down a little, but I think he would be fine (even if it’s just a platoon as he hits right handers better). I don’t think Chicago is going to offer him a contract either so he might be even cheaper than Roberts. He’s younger than Roberts too.
By KC
October 10, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
geauxbraves2000:
This wasn’t the first year over this 14 year run in which the Braves were without a leadoff man. Here are a few Braves’ atypical leadoff men of the past:
1999 – Gerald Williams 1998 – Walt Weiss 1994 – Roberto Kelly
It could also be argued that Marquis Grissom was no longer a true leadoff man by the time he took over that role for the Braves in 1995. His speed and OBP was down and his power was up VS. what he displayed in Montreal. In the Braves sole Championship season (’95) Grissom posted a lowly .317 on-base percentage. Interesting.
By Thomas
October 10, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
The Top Ten Players Braves could be interested in to fill there holes:
By geauxbraves2000
October 10, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
I remember seeing Weiss on the list, forgot about Williams & Kelly. Oh well, at the time my point was valid (at least in my mind) seems now I have holes, thanks KC for pointing that out to me.
On a different note, How about them Bears? 5-0 and kicking butt! WTG Bears! The Braves could use Urlacher. I dare a pitcher to throw high and tight to him. :)
Okay, I said I was gone for the offseason, apparently I was either lying, or I just can’t stay away. However, I am out for now, so, later all.
Geaux Braves!!
By KC
October 10, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
Phat Bat Boy:
“But the fact remains that when you review his last season in Oakland with the first 2 in Atlanta, he is a very average pitcher.”
Tim Hudson’s 3.53 ERA in 2004 placed him in the top 12% of all major league pitchers. His 3.53 ERA in 2005 placed him in the top 15% of all MLB starters. This year, either one of those ERA’s would place him in the top 7%. Also, with so much as an average bullpen behind him, Hudson would have won at least 18 games last season. It’s also worth noting that he played hurt through much of both of those season (04, 05) and didn’t make any excuses.
So no Phat, he wasn’t “average” before this year. Not at all… not even close.
Hudson now has one bad year now officially on his resume. Is that it Huddy? Is Hudson-the ace gone forever? I don’t know, but based on the fact that he’s still young, hasn’t lost any of his stuff, and has a previous 7 year record of perennial excellence, I’m guessing he’ll bounce back. You may be right, I could be wrong. We’ll just have to wait and see. What I do know for a fact is that at no point prior to this season was Tim Hudson “average” in any way shape of form.
By paluka
October 10, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
How about these for a few leadoff possibilities: 1. Giles for Coco Crisp 2.Thorman for David DeJesus or Joey Gathright 3.Hudson for Brian Roberts 4.Sign Julio Lugo for second base
By GeorgetownKid
October 10, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
My predictions for the upcoming offseason:
Braves will trade:
Hudson — a salary dump; the Braves will recieve draft picks and inconsequential prospects in return
Giles — Braves will recieve slightly more than they get for Huson; perhaps 1 or 2 good prospects (but again, no major league salaries)
Cormier / Villareal — whichever can fetch more in return will be dealt, as we simply don’t need both
Trading these players, after signing Wickman and giving a raise to LaRoache, will leave the Braves with approximately $14 million to spend in free agency.
The Braves will use this $14 million to acquire an established starting pitcher (hereafter referred to as “Starter X”), and a proven left-handed reliever (hereafter referred to as “Reliever X”).
Therefore, the 2007 Braves will look like:
Starting Rotation: Smoltz Hampton Starter X James Ramirez (unlikely to be traded as his trade value is undoubtedly very low right now)
Bullpen: Wickman Yates McBride Paronto Devine Reliever X Cormier / Villareal (one, but not both, are necessary as a 6th starter, considering Smoltz’s age, and the injuries to Hampton and Ramirez)
Catcher: McCann Pena
1B: LaRoache Ward
2B: Prado Kelly Johnson
SS: Renteria Aybar
3B: C Jones Aybar
Outfield: A Jones Franceour Diaz Kelly Johnson Gregor Blanco
Having Johnson as a backup 2B opens up another OF slot for Blanco. Johnson and Blanco could platoon in LF and hit leadoff, or the Braves could use Prado as the leadoff hitter and keep Diaz in LF.
Prado is pretty mediocre as a starter, but he is cheap, so the Braves will accept the dropoff in productivity at 2B in order to have more money to spend on pitching.
And, if Chipper stays healthy and Franceour improves, that could make up for the lost production at 2B.
I don’t know who “Starter X” or “Reliever X” will be, but I believe that this scenario is a realistic prediction of how this offseason will unfold.
But I look forward to reading any comments anyone may have.
By KC
October 10, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
Oh, and Phat Bat Boy…
Even if Hudson tanks again next season and is never the same again… Sheurholz didn’t make a mistake. If the sun rises in the west tomorrow, I’ll be surprised. But it’s not a mistake for me to expect it to rise in the east.
By KC
October 10, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this
Thomas, I think you’re estimate on Juan Pierre is a bit low. Remember, the Cubs were willing to pay Furcal 10-11 million a season last year to fill their leadoff hole, and he eventually got 13 mill a year.
Pierre is the best leadoff man on the market, and if the Cubs offered all that money to Furcal, it’s a safe bet that they’ll offer something close to that to Pierre. He’ll probably get a deal somewhere in the 9-10 million per season range.
By Phat Bat Boy
October 10, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this
KC, take a look at some of the other stats beyond ERA. He is allowing far more hits per inning in his last 3 seasons. Slugging percentage has increased. Innings per season are down. He is simply getting hit more often and harder and not as durable. He’s been pitching for too long to have mechanical issues. I expect that from Davies or James or even Ramirez. Not from the supposed ace of the staff. If he is nursing injuries, more reason to dump him while he still has relative health. I’d love to be optimistic, but relying on a 40 year-old, a guy coming off major surgery and another guy who has not had a good 3-year run, is more than a little troubling. Of those 3, Hudson must have the most value. Trade him, and use that salary slot to further bolster the bullpen or for a cheaper experienced starter. Hudson could probably help sell tickets in the AL. (While I remember his outstanding pitching in that last playoff game against Houston, I also vividly remember that he got lit up earlier in that series. Too inconsistent at this point in his career).
By Thomas
October 10, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this
Paluka good idea, we could sign lugo to play second, and trade Giles for relievers or prospects.
By Antonio McNugget
October 10, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
I only caught 2 of your 4 part “Braves Offseason” piece. Cant find it on the AJC website could you, or someone else direct me to part 3 and 4 i would most apprciate it.
By the way, What happened to that guy who was talking about Auburn “steamrolling” to the National Championship. Guess they will have to wait another 45 years.
By StartANewStreak
October 10, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
GeorgetownKid The Braves can’t trade Hudson for draft picks….MLB rules forbid the trading of draft picks. The closest thing they could do is trade him for prospects that have already been signed, but I’m not sure what the time limit on trading a player after drafting them is. Plus, the draft is in the middle of the season, so it’d have to be someone from this past years draft.
By ncscoots
October 10, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
well, it’s been fun today, reveling as the contrarian to the “we MUST have a base-stealing leadoff man or Braves are doomed!’ set. I alway like that discussion for a while, at least til I start seeing names like Ryan Freel or Kenny Lofton (please!) as candidates, then I know the discussion has gone to the planets-heretofore-unknown-to-humankind phase and is due for a change.
Seriously, some folks make it sound as if the Braves are INCAPABLE of playing hit-and-run, sacrificing, bunting, or stealing a base in any way shape or form, and that simply isn’t the case. Given a situation which requires a given small-ball tactic, the Braves probably execute as well as any other team, for the most part. Their team speed for base-RUNNING is probably average-to-good, they are not a team of plodders, and I guess that’s why I wonder at all the passion for a dimension that does not hold promise for significantly upgrading the offense.
Oh, yeah, I suppose it also steams me to see a player such as Giles belittled, to be even considered “replaced” with some of the names bandied about so blithely on the blog. If the guy gets traded, then so be it, but you can be sure the reason won’t be because someone in the organization jumped up and said “Hey, we’ve got a chance to Juan Pierre!”
By Thomas
October 10, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this
KC, you also need to consider his defense, and the cubs arent desperate anymore, because they have a great and speedy second baseman who can lead off.
By Lew
October 10, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this
KC-I apologize, but it does sound like I was thinking about someone other than the Steve Kline you meant. I’ll check later and see who I was thinking of. Thomas-I disagree-the Braves are NOT looking for a prototypical leadoff hitter. Read the comments from BC and JS-pitching is what they are going to try to obtain. I would love to see Giles stay, but I figure we have about $5million left with people leaving minus raises in arbitration. With Marcus gone, that will give us $10 million to use for pitching and like KC says-a RH bench guy able to play first, or in Helms case, 3rd. I read an article today saying the Padres are looking for bats this offseason. Marcus is a SD native, his brother plays for the Padres, they need a 2nd baseman (theirs can’t hit) and they have pitching to spare. Looks like a fit to me.
By TennesseePaul
October 10, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this
Sheeesh. This has been one helluva bad day for typing. I’ve got too much on my mind I suppose. I’m using the wrong words with similar sounds all over the place.
By GeorgetownKid
October 10, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this
StartANewStreak,
I didn’t know that. Thank you.
But I was merely trying to illustrate that Hudson will be a salary dump. HoRam is very unlikely to be traded, as his trade value will be far below his value to the Braves.
So Ramirez and the “Starter to be acquired” will round out the rotation, along with Smoltz, Hampton, and James.
Either Cormier or Villareal will be in the bullpen as a 6th starter, but I hope both are not kept, as only one is needed.
Davies will be in AAA, so he will also be available on an emergency basis.
We should certainly have plenty of depth in that area.
By Jon
October 10, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this
I think Marcus will draw a lot of interest from teams resulting in his trade value incresing. He will be a fairly cheap addition to any team and the Padres might want him to play third. He would be a popular player in San Diego since he gets his uniform dirty and would be playing with his brother. The Padres have some good young arms they might deal.
Tononto would probably be interested too. Aaron Hill could be their permanent SS since Russ Adams was dissapointing for them. They would probably part with Reed Johnson since they already have Vernon Wells Alex Rios and Frank Catalanotto. Reed Johnson hit .319 with a .390 OBP, that would be an improvement at the top of the lineup and would let the Braves avoid throwing a rookie at the leadoff spot.
By DCDave
October 10, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this
Fellow Braves Fans, Thanks, DOB, for the rightous bloggings & to all the true posters. Your commentaries have been much appreciated by many of us non-regional fans who have been cast out of the viewing light by Time Warner’s ever-decreasing number of broadcasts. Though a few of the late-innings of this year’s telecasts might coulda been skipped.
That aside, did a little digging into the record books to see just how the Braves stacked up during their sadly-now-ended streak.
For the 14 years of Division Titles (omitting 1994), the Braves overall standings in the NL, as measured by W/L records: 9 First place finishes 4 Second places 1 One fifth place (2001)
These were not teams that squeaked by. Respectfully submit that had this run occurred pre-1969, while we wouldn’t be talking about a streak of Division Titles, we would be talking about the best team since Casey Stengal’s Yankees.
By chris
October 10, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this
Here is the stone cold truth on whats wrong with the Braves, Two words Larry Jones!!! Get rid of his always hurt never hustling a* ASAP….A-Rod is big upgrade.
By KC
October 10, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this
Phat Bat Boy:
A pitchers job is to keep the other team from scoring… period. And that’s what ERA is… earned runs allowed per 9 innings. So respectfully, please don’t come at me with hits or slugging percentage.
The only other stat that really matters in the end is innings pitched. A pitcher might have a good ERA, but if he isn’t getting his team deep into ball games, then he’s overworking the bullpen and will cost his team a number of wins that way. But that wasn’t the case with Tim Hudson (prior to this year of course).
In his two best seasons (2002,2003) Hudson averaged 7.0 innings per start. Over his last two seasons (not including this year obviously) that number went down only slightly to 6.8 innings per start.
That’s it man. Those are the only two numbers that matter in the end for a pitcher: ERA and innings pitched.
If you’re trying to argue that Hudson wasn’t as dominant in 04 and 05 as he was the previous two seasons, then we have nothing to debate… how could I argue with that? Clearly he wasn’t quite as dominant. But that’s not what you said. You said that Tim Hudson was “very average”, and that certainly is not the case. Now this year… absolutely. Hudson had a terrible year. That’s something we can all agree on. Tim Hudson would agree with that.
Anyway, trading Hudson is a dead issue… it’s not going to happen. I’ll respond the Smoltz and Hampton thing in a different post.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
October 10, 2006 07:53 PM | Link to this
As strange as it sounds, I’m glad Torre is staying with the Yanks. The man deserves better and should be allowed to finish out his contract. Of course, almost 100% certainity there wont’ be an extension. Now, I wonder what Pinella is going to do. None of the four jobs available have teams that are ready to win or “that” close to winning.
By KC
October 10, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this
Phat Bat Boy:
As to Smoltz and Hampton… Again, Smoltz has known no signs of slowing, and has suffered no notable health issues in several years. Keep in mind, 40 is not as old in baseball years as it once was (especially for power pitchers). Look at what other great power pitchers have done at age 40 in recent years:
• Randy Johnson at 40(2004): 2.60 ERA, 290 K’s • Curt Schilling at 40 (2006) 15-7, 3.97, 183 K’s (coming off an injury plagued season) • Roger Clemens just last year (at age 97): 1.87 ERA. This year: 2.30
As for Mike Hampton… please name 2 pitchers in recent years who have had lingering problems from Tommy John Surgery after the 18 month mark (the full recommended recovery time). It hardly ever happens my friend. Again, no one waits for the 18 month mark. That’s why pitchers struggle in their first season back. If Hampton has any problems, it’s highly unlikely that it will have anything to do with the surgery.
“a guy coming off major surgery and another guy who has not had a good 3-year run”
From 1998-2000, Hampton went 48-21 with a 3.12 ERA. I would call that a pretty good 3 year run. And he wasn’t bad before that either. Then of course, he made worst professional decision of his life and signed with Rockies. It takes a certain type of pitcher to pitch successfully in Denver, and a sinker-ball/curve-ball guy ain’t it. The exact same thing happened to Daryl Kile when he signed with the Rockies. Anyway, that 2 year pit stop derailed him in the prime of his career. After coming to Atlanta, he pitched well almost immediately, but it took him about a season and a half to get back to his pre-Colorado form… but he did.
From the all-star break in 2004 until he went on the DL last year (a span of 21 starts), Hampton went 13-2, with a 2.54 ERA. He was throwing the ball as well as anyone in baseball when he went down last year. Talk about lousy timing.
Anyway, to question what kind of pitcher Mike Hampton can be when he’s healthy just shows that you haven’ been paying attention. And again, I don’t think there’s any cause for concern about his health either. There’s no way to predict the future, but the rotation looks pretty good from where I’m standing.
By Metropolitan Man
October 10, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this
Just a thought here braves fans. I noticed Leo left and the pitching was your downfall this year. If Pendleton goes, will your hitting follow? I say this becasue you guys were league leaders in a lot of offensive catergories. I’m not saying Pedleton deservesd all of the success but if you bring in someone new, will they respond ro him the way your pitching staff responded to the METS mole R. Mcdowell?? And how about letting us take H. Ramirez off your hands this off season. R. Peterson can straighten him out in 10 minutes.
By David O'Brien
October 10, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this
KC, I didn’t leave Paronto out, or anyone else. I merely gave you the three names Bobby recited, without hesitation, the day after the season ended, when he said those three were solid bullpen pieces and the Braves had others to push them. That’s all.
And I agree with you, I think Paronto’s got a good shot at making the ‘pen, but he just does’ have the pure stuff of Yates, and the Braves want guys with stuff, at least a few of them. You can work to make guys with stuff a lot better. You can only go so far with relievers with average “stuff.”…
Phat Bat Boy, you said in an early post, “reduce payroll,” as though that was somehow desirable. What fan has ever WANTED the team to reduce payroll. You should want the owner to spend every possible penny, and then some more, right? Why would you want the team to reduce payroll if the owner isn’t asking it to? You want to save the owner some money or something?
You guys might be interested in this line I saw here today in Mike Lupica’s column in the Daily News (I’m in New York for NLCS; they had workout today):
“The ones who want George Steinbrenner to retain Joe Torre as Yankee manager shout their support at the old man now the way reporters shout questions when he is on his way to the parking lot across the street from Yankee Stadium, now housing the Bronx version of the Atlanta Braves….”
Ouch.
Later he added: “The Yankees can’t put good teams away. They Yankees can’t get off the deck, despite the most insane financial advantage in the history of professional sports.”
By Metropolitan Man
October 10, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this
Yeah I saw that reference in the the paper too DOB. They actually compare the stankees to the braves and it wasnt in a good way. Steinbugger needs to give it a rest. If they ever make awards for owner of the year, he would never make the ballot because of shear arrogance!!
By The Grinch
October 10, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this
Is it just me, or does Steinbrenner not even seem to care about the game? It’s like the Yanks own the WS by birthright and he goes ballistic if anything else happens. Hey, dude, it a game! And comparing his team to the Braves is ridiculous. If our organization had his payroll we’d hardly ever lose a game. What a fruit.
By The Grinch
October 10, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
And for that matter, what dirt does Cashman have on the boss to keep HIS job? He’s far more to blame than Torre for the problem. His offering twice as much money as they’re worth to players with good stats but questionable character year in and year out have not only harmed the payroll structure of the game, but consistently made good teams out of what ought to be great ones. I bet he knows something about ol’ George we don’t (and probably don’t want to).
By jounalist jimmy smith
October 10, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this
NEW YORK (AP) -Cliff Floyd limped into the Mets’ clubhouse Tuesday with a protective boot on his injured left foot and made his best case to remain on the team’s roster in the NL championship series.
this was suggested to you yesterday by journalist jimmy smith. journalist is endeavoring to find out if the protective boot is a red boot.
By David O'Brien
October 10, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this
Someone asked about Braves eligible for free agency a while back. While I’m thinking about it, they are:
Danys Baez, Brian Jordan, Todd Pratt, John Thomson, Daryle Ward.
Only one I see them trying to keep is Ward.
Reliever Wayne Franklin opted for free agency today, too, rather than be assigned to minors after taken off 40-man. Yeah, I know, stop the presses.
By TennesseePaul
October 10, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this
CRAP! Franklin’s a free agent. We gotta get him back. Trade AJ, Chipper and Smoltz if necessary. Hand that man the keys to the town.
DOB: I saw that write up in the NY papers. The guy thought he had something good with it, but at least the Braves could string it out over a decade and a half for about 50% of the total cost of the Yankees 9 straight. If one was to measure this on a cost benefit analysis, no team is going to sink as low as the Yankees.
But whatever. Next year is the year. I read these posts as if it’s a forgone conclusion that the Mets will sign all the big free agents. There are a lot of teams out there with money to spend. Braves need a few parts here and there to improve the pitching, but we don’t need to highest price free agent. We’ll be back in it next year. We’ll start a run of WS.
Now, where is that bottle opener…
By TommyB
October 10, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this
Grinchy,
This is strictly my own speculation. But, I have a feeling that Steinbrenner has a serious health condition, and one that affects not only the body.
By David O'Brien
October 10, 2006 11:23 PM | Link to this
TommyB, a LOT of people I talked to here today are convinced George is losing it, and has been for several years. He’s rarely seen in public anymore, and never by himself, always has his handlers around to prevent one-on-one questions from reporters, etc….
For what it’s worth, you guys might be interested to know that an LA Times reporter approached me today and asked about Andruw Jones’ contract, his situation, etc. Obviously the name’s come up out there. He was saying how great a fit he’d be with Angels or Dodgers in CF, and I told him those are two of three teams Andruw mentioned to me that would have money to spend (other being Mets).
Andruw wants to stay in Atlanta, no question, But if he’s gonna be traded, the two LA teams are two he wouldn’t mind going to because of weather, city, competitive teams, etc.
And as we’ve discussed here, the Angels sure have a few parts that could help the Braves in return… But I’m just speculating, just connecting dots. Nothing more.
By TommyB
October 10, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this
Dave,
It’s been looking that way to me for awhile. Primarily because of (a) fewer-to-none on-camera appearances, (b) “mellowing out”, and (c) announcement he’s handing over to the son-in-law. Plus, he spends most of the time in Tampa. Should be good indicators.
BTW, I checked out the Greenhornes and was impressed. I’m just trying to figure out when I could use the tunes. They scream for a “PARTY” (the likes I haven’t been to in quite a while.)
But they are fun to listen to.
By The Grinch
October 10, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this
That’s right, Tommy; I forgot about that commercial a year or two back with his arm in a cast trying to sign checks…
DOB, good lord! Can’t the Dodgers find players of their own? If they get Andruw, they’ll look more like the Braves than the Braves do.
By D'Andre Williams Jr. sports journalist in the making
October 10, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this
The braves should trade marcus giles to the royals for Joey Gatheright or to boston for Coco Crisp.I would trade Thorman but he has too much power potential(.290 90 RBI and 35 home runs.)Or JS can rent a player like Dave Roberts like he did in the past, for 1 or 2 years so that Brandon Jones can get ready(Minor league outfielder at AA mississippi.)The braves shouldn’t trade any pitchers this offseason. We saw this year how pitching depth is very important. I would put Kyle Davies in the bullpen because he has nothing to prove in the minors. At second base The braves shouldn’t start willy Aybar but should start Yunel Escobar or Martin Prado. Lastly the only big trade I think the braves will make is getting Ryan Freel or Carl Crawford. If I was JS I would trade Giles, Lerew, and Yunel Escobar for Carl Crawford. If you have any questions contact be at jshooter6@yahoo.com.
By TommyB
October 10, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this
Isn’t Jimmy Leyland such an amazing guy?
I usually carry five teams each year (typically: Braves, Cards, Dodgers, Red Sox, As). Last winter, when Leyland re-entered the Game my late Dad and I both snapped to attention. Ever since, I’ve been watching my jaw drop during the season. MOY? Hands Down.
The way the Tigers are playin’ I wouldn’t be surprised to see them do the As in 4 and ROLL over whomever the NL throws at ‘em.
By Kentavo
October 10, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this
I know JS wants to address the pitching, but can the payroll-constrained Braves really go after Zito and Schmidt? Who else will be available? Mussina? Pettite? Clemens? Glavine and Maddux? Are they really viable options? If Mets win WS, won’t they resign Glavine? Isn’t it more likely a proven starter will be acquired via trade, ala the Hudson deal? Or will JS be signing a John Thomson-like a little better than average starter? My money’s on trades. We just haven’t signed a significant free agent since Galaraga.
By TennesseePaul
October 10, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this
Grinch: I hate to say it, but it was a lot of Braves that prevented them from winning this offseason. Not that I’m terribly dissapointed with the results. Just that the former Bravos didn’t do well. But maybe all those guys took the bad seed with them. We have so much youth this year and we’re shedding tons of deadwood and managers… Next year’s outlook is just so bright.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
October 10, 2006 11:46 PM | Link to this
I see the Braves trading Andruw to the Angels before I do the Dodgers. And I can’t see any scenario where he would be traded to the Mets unless they gave Milledge and Maine, which I don’t why they would do such a thing. Now, after next season in free agency I could see it happening but even then I have my doubts. Andruw doesn’t like cold weather cities and NY is definitely that.
By flbravesgirl
October 10, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this
TommyB, unfortunately he spends most of his time in Tampa. I’ve been wishing for years that he’d go elsewhere.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
October 10, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this
Grinch, I have to disagree a bit about Cashman. Cashman has actually been against some of the “big money” signings and trades. Most of it was the Boss’ idea. Cashman was upset at how badly the minor league system had been deplinished. That is why when he resigned last year that he demanded he have more say so in player personel and the such so that he could not sell the farm to get a “sure thing”. But,you may be right about him having something on ‘ol Georgie. I have heard some call the reports of Torre being fired irresponsbile journalism. However, I think those stories were probably very accurate. That would be typical Steinbrenner behavior in solving the problem. Someone got to him. Maybe its his son-in-law who does more of the day to day operations of the team now.
By The Grinch
October 10, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this
Yeah, 10Paul, I mainly meant from an asthetic point of view (though I do miss Maddux). You’re right; they did contribute to the choke job. I like our current lineup (with a possible tweak or two). There’s no way we’re gonna have as much bad luck next year. This team will be fine. G’night, all.
By TommyB
October 10, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this
FBG, why don’t you just tell him you’re married… or “not interested?”
Do I need to come down there and Make Him Understand???
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
October 10, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this
I honestly don’t see how the Yankees will have any better shot to win the WS next season than they did this season. The free agent market for quality starting pitching is not that extensive. They could some players through trades but wiht all those big contracts only the younger guys are tradeable and Cashman has made a concerted effort to not trade away the young talent.
Now, if they would say trade Cabrerra and Cano for Hudson, then I would be all for it.
By TommyB
October 11, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this
Buenas Noches…
Wife is kicking on the upstairs floor. It’s starting to sound like she may be damaging the floorboards. Night, all.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
October 11, 2006 12:07 AM | Link to this
Night, Tommy.
By David
October 11, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this
Good article. I will read your articles in a different light now that I know you are a Townes Van Zandt fan. Thanks!
By TennesseePaul
October 11, 2006 12:44 AM | Link to this
RJIB: I think you’re on with the Yanks. They can’t really trade those high price guys without passing along a bag of money. So no move is going to be to free up salary. However, I think they will make a push for the pitchers. They have to after this season. They can’t trade for pitching, or at least, it won’t be easy.
The Dodgers are going to need some pitching as well as the Yankees, Angels, Mets, Giants and Astros (depending on Clemens and whatever Pettitte decides.) Well pretty much every team, but those teams have the money to throw around. Who knows, maybe the Cubs get in on the dance as well. It’s a good time to be a FA pitcher, that’s for sure.
By TheWyzyrd
October 11, 2006 12:52 AM | Link to this
“You wear your skin like iron and your breath is hard as kerosene. … You wear your gun outside your pants for all the honest world to feel. … The dust that Pancho bit down south ended up in Lefty’s mouth. …” May not be word for word but P & L is arguably one of the best songs ever written. Say hey to Stinny for me.
By Lew
October 11, 2006 12:56 AM | Link to this
Now FlBraves Girl-He does read the Night Before Christmas to the kids at the Children’s Home in Tampa.
By David O'Brien
October 11, 2006 01:01 AM | Link to this
Robert, agreed on Angels more likely than Dodgers, and I don’t see any Mets scenario whatsoever for Andruw. I think he was just mentioning Mets as an example of a team with money to spend. No way Braves would trade him to Mets, and they obviously don’t need a CF anyway, and won’t for some time.
By Head Coach
October 11, 2006 01:05 AM | Link to this
Guys , the free agent market may not be extensive according to your opinion. However , RP Jason Schmidt ,LP Barry Zito , LP Andy Pettitte and RP Roger Clemens impending free agency says otherwise. The free agent market in pitching is short on pitchers , long on talent and the Yankees have an open checkbook.
By David O'Brien
October 11, 2006 01:26 AM | Link to this
The poets tell how Pancho fell/Lefty’s livin’ in a cheap hotel/The desert’s quiet and Cleveland’s cold/So the story ends we’re told
Pancho needs your prayers it’s true,/But save a few for Lefty too/He just did what he had to do/Now he’s growing old
A few gray federales say/They could have had him any day/They only let him go so wrong/Out of kindness I suppose
By TennesseePaul
October 11, 2006 01:52 AM | Link to this
Jimmy Leyland. I just took a look at this because I was curious. Plus, he’s in the playoffs this year and there is all this praise out there. He is good, no doubt about it. I like him as a manager. I enjoy watching games he manages. I think he manages the game the way it’s supposed to be done. Old school if you will, in some ways. He isn’t with out his flaws, or bad calls, but he’s good.
There was some one on this blog who said Leyland makes the same team better when he arrives. He certainly has helped with the Tigers this season. But the Pirates? Oh, I don’t think so. Nor the Rockies. As for the Marlins… I recall the Marlins purchasing all those players, then selling them all off. He won with the All Stars, and lost with with not-all-stars.
From what I can see, he is sitting on a 1169-1175 record (.499). After he left the Pirates, the team improved by 6 games. After he left the Marlins, the team improved by 10 games. When he joined the Rockies, the team stepped back 6 games. They also stepped back when he left by 5 games. At appears he was just along for the down hill ride for a season, no wonder he jumped ship. While with the Pirates, he had 4 winning season out of 10. He won the NL East title 3 times in a row in the middle of his tenure, right before Bonds left as a free agent. No WS. No NL Championship.
Knowing all this, I wouldn’t have wanted the guy fired had he managed the Braves. He’s a good manager. But juxtaposed with the Braves Manager… well, In 1982, Cox led the Blue Jays to a 78-84 mark, the best record in their six-year existence. His first season with the Jays. Toronto improved to 89-73 each of the next two seasons and then won the American League East crown by going 99-62 in 1985. In 1991, his first full season as the Manger of the Braves (his second go round) he took a last place team to first place over the Pirates and Leyland and to game 7 of the WS. He then kept his team in first place for the next 15 years (save one strike season, which the Braves still had a winning record).
This post isn’t to bash on Leyland by any means. Just to highlight how good Cox is.
I’ve read that landing in first in the division means what, beating 4 other teams?
Below is the rankings of the regular season finishes by Bobby and the Braves.
Year Division League and Majors
1991 1 2 3
1992 1 1 1
1993 1 1 1
1994 - - - (Strike season)
1995 1 1 2
1996 1 1 2
1997 1 1 1
1998 1 1 2
1999 1 1 1
2000 1 2 2
2001 1 5 9
2002 1 1 2
2003 1 1 1
2004 1 2 4
2005 1 2 7
The post season is well documented. But I’m not sure how one could claim he’s a terrible guy at the helm. He’s done better than any other active manager in the regular season. I posted the regular season rankings to respond to the “better than only 4 teams” remarks. Some will find a way to see nothing but negativity. I, on the other hand, shall cherish the success and hope for more.
Good night all. GO BRAVES
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 07:31 AM | Link to this
The Braves scored 3 runs or less ~57 times in 2006. That’s more than 1/3 of their games. The ability to manufacture runs is important. However, it’s not just the games they score less than 4 runs in. It’s important in one run games as well. They played in ~ 62 games where it was decided by one run. Again, being able to manufacture one more run would come in handy.
Is 57 times a lot? Where does that rank compared to other teams? And playing in that many one-run games would seem to indicate the Braves probably should have been a .500 team. The fact that they lost that many is largely just bad luck.
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 07:45 AM | Link to this
As important as luck is in baseball, it’s not the defining thing in one run games. Maybe on a damn computer game, but not in real life. Speed and better pitching has an effect as well. And those things can depend on a team’s or a players’s psyche. Baseball, actually any sport, has a lot of human aspects involved in deciding the game.
Luck plays more of a role than you seem to think. There is no way to even somewhat accurately predict what a team will do in one-run games, while there are plenty of ways to predict what a team will do overall. And, looking back, there is no way by looking at a team’s numbers or talent that you can guess what their record was in one-run games. Now, if there was some “defining thing” (speed, pitching) that would cause a team to win or lose one-run games, why has no one been able to find any correlation between some defining thing and winning one-run games?
Yes, a lot of human aspects are involved in deciding a game, but those human aspects largely show up in the numbers. For instance, we know Renteria was probably uncomfortable last year, as he has said, because it showed up in his numbers.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
October 11, 2006 08:32 AM | Link to this
You weren’t you’re mama’s only boy/
but her favorite one it seems/
She began to cry when you said “Goodbye”/
and sank into your dreams.
By BB FAN
October 11, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
I’m not saying that luck doesn’t play a role in baseball. But it is not the defining element in the game. Player skill and execution, chemistry, and the manager affects the outcome of a game just as much as luck.
The point I’m trying to make is the other aspects can actually change luck. The Mets’ Jose Reyes is great example of being able to change luck. Even if the Mets hitters are in a slump, if Reyes can get on and “reck havoc,” the Mets are likely to score a run or two. Then that can jump start the hitters (improve their psyche) and they start “recking havoc” with their bats. It’s just a nice advantage to have a guy that can ignite the offense. Furcal used to do that for the Braves.
Renteria is a great example about a player’s psyche. He was not happy in the AL and on Boston’s infield and struggled, but he came to Atlanta and had his normal solid season.
By 3trees
October 11, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this
Its not really fair to take this small sample from a GREAT whole song, but I didn’t want to take up too much space:
“At my window Watching the sun go Hoping the stars know Its time to shine Daydreams Aloft on dark wings Soft as the sun streams At days decline”
What a writer AND singer! A wise old soul.
Thanks to for a fun and interesting year on the B&MIB Blog. Good to see these past couple of days discussion returning to Baseball AND music.
Enjoyed the article on Glavine, DOB. I know that I’ll get skewered (and maybe rightly so), but he was my fav Brave while here and I still respect him greatly as a player, though I don’t like to see any athlete in blue & orange. ;-)
By Lew
October 11, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
BBFAN-All that you say about speed in leadoff hitters is true. I definitely won’t dispute your assertions. What you have to realize, though, is that the Braves, even with Furcal, Deion or Otis were not essentially speed based teams. Even with speedy players at the top of the lineup, BC did not have them run all that often. I think Furcal only had 30+ steals twice in his career with the Braves. Renteria had 17 or 18 this year, whcih is just slightly under the average for Braves leading base stealers. BC just does not count on the speed that much, other than taking an extra base. He takes the Earl Weaver approach and relies more on the long ball. He even says as much in a current Chop Talk interview. I think it unlikely we will have the quintissential leadoff hitter in Atlanta this year. JS has said repeatedly in recent days, that pitching will be his goal in the offseason. I just don’t see us spending $$ on speed at the fron t of the lineup. Look for pitching and defense-just like we normally can expect.
By Matthew
October 11, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
Hate to change the subject, but
MAN MY HOGS ARE LOOKING STRONG!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG SOIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Oh and by the way, I too think that that the Braves can get by without a “star” leadoff hitter. Dave Roberts would be nice, but teams with big pocketbooks will likely outbid Atlanta. The Royals suggestion is intersting. Perhaps we could work out an arrangement with them for Mark Redmon and Angel Berroa. I know, it’lll never happen, but JS has worked out some impossible deals before. How about Giles, Davies, one of the AA infielders (Escobar or Andrus), and cash to the Royals for Redmon and Berroa?
I know, I don’t really like it either. But we gotta talk about something other than the Stankees. How is it that NY gets embarrassed in the Division Series, but all the hoopla is about the losers? Between A-Rod and Torre, the news is all about the losers. That would be like doing 24 hour coverage on the breakup of the Nazis after WWII. Give me a break. So let’s change the subject and talk about our Braves and impossible deals.
Or, we could talk about the #17 team in the country, my Hogs…:)
By Lew
October 11, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this
I just checked to make sure of my statements-Since the beginning of the 94 season-thirteen seasons-the Braves leading base stealer has stolen 30+ bases TWO times. Since Otis left, this has never been a prototypical speed team. This won’t change soon.
By BB FAN
October 11, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this
Lew,
It’s not just the stolen base! It’s the threat that is there. I remember watching Furcal and even though he did not run as much as he should have, the pitcher’s mind was on him more than the hitter. That will cause mistakes by the pitcher. So even though Cox does not use the stolen base a lot, that threat is still there. And like I said in an earlier post, it makes the pitcher throw more fastballs too. And taking the extra base can mean a lot in a close game as well.
And like I said before, a Dave Roberts or Podsedik would do great and probably cost $2-3 million. Not a whole lot.
By journalist & composer jimmy smith
October 11, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this
pie. nothing like a piece of pie/makes me want to cry/never said that i/wouldn’t take a piece of pie.
pie. slicing just one cherry pie/for a piece of pie/never sure that i/can get e-nough pie.
By Matthew
October 11, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
BB Fan:
I like your suggestion of D. Roberts or Podsednik. Can they really be signed for that little? Have you read some inside dirt on the situation? If so, I’d be very interested to read it. Thanks.
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this
BB FAN,
Exactly, most of baseball is not luck. Chemistry, execution and manager have something to do with luck, but it’s mostly talent (if we assume players are trying reasonably hard).
You can largely predict how a team or player will do based on past numbers, age, and expected playing time. You can largely predict a team’s record, barring any major surprises (injuries, variations in playing time, a lot of young players coming up and performing better than expected, etc).
You cannot predict a team’s record in one-run games. It was just as likely the Braves could have won half of their one-run games instead of losing most of them. There is very little evidence that anything increases a team’s chances of winning close games or one-run games. The best way to be a good team is try not to play in many one-run games; set yourself up to blow out your opponents as often as possible. Every now and then a team’s fortunes may turn on their record in one-run games, but usually they do not.
The reason the Braves lost so many close games was because of chance. There was no reason to expect it and there is no reason to expect the same thing will happen in 2007, even without significant changes to the bullpen or a speedy leadoff guy.
By KC
October 11, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
I would agree that the threat is another advantage of having a base-stealer on base.
LEW, I agree that Bobby tends to manage a bit more conservatively on the base paths. However, when he does have a true base-stealer, he usually gives them an open ended green light.
Also, when the Braves are up against a tough pitcher and BC senses that runs we be tougher to come by, he’s not afraid to push the issue a little more. Speed does help to manufacture runs. While the Braves are a team that can wait for the 2 run double or the 3 run homer because they’ve got so much power… the ability to play small ball when necessary is very valuable, especially in the post-season.
By BDHypes-
October 11, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
What’s your thoughts about an A.Jones for ARod deal?I know The Braves are in desperate need for a true leadoff hitter,but a C.Jones/ARod middle of the order sure looks inticing.Also with Texas picking up appx 5 million of ARods tab,the salaries are basically a wash. BDHypes-
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Lew and BB Fan,
Look at the Braves run scoring totals from 1991-2006. They scored more runs in years when they did not have Otis Nixon and Deion Sanders and Kenny Lofton or any other speedy leadoff guy.
By David O'Brien
October 11, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this
SHAUN, YOU WRITE: “Is 57 times a lot? Where does that rank compared to other teams? And playing in that many one-run games would seem to indicate the Braves probably should have been a .500 team. The fact that they lost that many is largely just bad luck.”
By your logic, I assume you think the Mets’ 20-8 record in one-run games before the All-Star break (when they took control of the division race) was pure luck? Not the product of an offense spearheaded by Jose Reyes and a bullpen led by Billy Wagner? Oh, OK. Just checking.
Don’t tell the Mets that, though. They believe strongly that it was far more than luck.
By ernesto
October 11, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
DOB - just to keep you from doing an eternal “s’cuse me while I kiss this guy…” The Federales only let Lefty “go so long out of kindness” not go so wrong. A fine Townes V.Z. reference all the same.
By David O'Brien
October 11, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
If you’re asking me about A-Rod for Andruw _ I assume you’re asking me, but maybe you’re asking everyone here _ I’d say it’d be a bad deal all around for the Braves. Trading the game’s best defensive center fielder for a merely good defensive third baseman (and if you move him back to shortstop, where he’d presumably be better though not exceptional after a two-year absence or whatever it’s been), then you have to trade Renteria, one of the best No. 2 hitters in baseball.
A-Rod hasn’t been a clutch postseason player in years, and you’d be swapping a guy who is genuinely loved by all his teammates and his manager, for a guy who … well, I’ll just leave it at, you don’t hear comments from teammates about the importance of keeping A-Rod, the way you hear comments from teammates about the importance of keeping Andruw.
Call it an aberration, what A-Rod did this season, but I think he’s such a huge star with such an ego, there’s a very good chance he disrupts clubhouse chemistry on a team filled with young players who are in the middle of a natural process of taking over the identity of the team from their elders, Chipper, Smoltz and Andruw.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
October 11, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
Matthew Love that enthusiasm. Its always good to to hear those three, oh-so-familiar words. W-P-S.
Did you read the comments that Auburn’s running back made after Darren McFadden AND Felix Jones BOTH outrushed him in the game Saturday:
*Auburn, AL - Before the game, Auburn tailback Kenny Irons downplayed his battle with Arkansas tailback Darren McFadden, as the SEC’s two top rushers.
Irons carried 15 times for 75 yards. He caught two passes for 21 yards. He did not score a touchdown.
McFadden carried 28 times for 145 yards, including a 63-yard touchdown run. He did not catch a pass. Arkansas won 27-10.
Before the game, Irons was the SEC’s leading rusher. Now McFadden is.
Did McFadden prove anything to Irons?
“He didn’t prove anything,” Irons said. “He’s a running back. He ran the ball. That’s what he’s supposed to do. That’s his job. He didn’t prove anything.”
Arkansas tailback Felix Jones also outran Irons, with 13 carries for 104 yards and one TD, but the Auburn senior sounded unimpressed by the Hogs.
Irons said it was difficult “knowing you lost to a team that’s not that great. It’s not LSU. It’s not Florida. It’s not Georgia. It just shows, in the SEC, you can lose to anybody.”*
Not a lot of respect earned from a guy that just got out-performed by TWO Arkansas RBs. I guess we’ll just have to keep on trucking until somebody decides we need a little recognition…….”TOUCHDOWN ARKANSAS!!!!! OH MY!!!!” —P. Eels
By WDWJ
October 11, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
DOB, what do you thing about the following free agents. TED LILLY LHP 15 wins 160 K’s and Setup Man JUSTIN SPEIER 2.98 ERA. Both from Blue Jays. Also Gil Meche, Vicente Padilla, Randy Wolf, Adam Eaton, and Mark Redman? I agree with “jshooter6” that JS should and will do everything possible to get Ryan Freel or Carl Crawford. Keep up the good work DOB and God Bless the USA.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
October 11, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this
DOB— Did you say chemistry? That’s a touchy subject around here. Watch it. (lol—j/k Shaun)
By The Grinch
October 11, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this
Morning, all (oh, my; it actually IS morning!). Last night I went off on Cashman and you guys corrected me after I signed off; I’ll admit I don’t really know that much about the guy. I just assumed the GM was the one in charge of making obscene deals. But then, you know what they say about people who assume.
Matthew: “…That would be like someone spending 24 hours a day covering the breakup of the Nazis after WWII.” Dude, I take it you’ve never watched the History Channel? One would think nothing else ever happened. :-) Congrats on your hogs; now if only Auburn can knock off Florida so GA doesn’t get buried in the East.
DOB, don’t let logic dictate your opinions; nothing you just said included a quote from Billy Beane.
Journalist Jimmy, you did not include a copyright to those lyrics. Surely you do not wish all and sundry to lay claim to your genius?
By WDWJ
October 11, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
Sorry; think not thing
By The Grinch
October 11, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this
Arkansas Hillbilly: That’s really classless about Irons. I hadn’t heard that. I’ve lost some respect for Tuberville knowing one of his players would say something like that in public. Say what you want to about the Dawgs, but Coach Richt at least tries to instill some decency and humility into his players. Irons would be out running gassers all week if he pulled that crap ‘roun heah.
3Trees, got to disagree with you about Glavine. I liked him as much as anyone when he was here, but the way he left made me sick. I’ve been told by the few sportswriters I’ve corresponded to that he’s a stand-up guy and there’s nothing wrong with him, and I guess they would know, but I can’t help but feel differently. The guy’s here 16 years and takes essentially 33 million from the enemy instead of 30 million to retire a Brave (after earning god knows how much here already) to “set an example” for up-and-coming players about how to grab as much coin as possible, character be damned. His wife and kids “couldn’t understand” why he would get booed when he came back here. Really? I guess he must’ve just married her for her looks. Getting his teeth knocked out travelling from his cesspool neighborhood to his cesspool stadium is exactly what he deserved, in my opinion. Traitor.
By rammerjammer
October 11, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
Let’s speculate some more on the Angels-Andruw thing. JS says we need a top-tier pitcher. They have several.
The unwashed masses - that’s us bloggers - have discussed a leadoff man and they have one of those also.
Would that be enough for Andruw? Would both sides pull the trigger on that one?
Angels also have a decent veteran second baseman who’s being replaced by a prospect, so he could spell Giles in the event JS/BC think Prado isn’t ready. Would three-for-Andruw happen? Should it??
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this
O’Brien,
Well, you’d expect a team to have roughly the same winning percentage in one-run games than they do overall, given a decent sample of one-run games. If a team’s winning percentage in one-run games varies from overall winning percentage, it’s largely because of luck.
The Mets won a lot of one-run games because they won a lot of games. Having Billy Wagner and Jose Reyes helped but so did having Carlos Beltran and Carlos Delgado.
Having a speedy leadoff guy or a great closer helped them because it helped them in one-run games because it helped them become a better team. If they were a 97-win team without a great leadoff hitter or closer, we would still expect them to win a lot of one-run games.
By Glass Half Full
October 11, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this
Let’s hope JS doesn’t get sentimental and resign Jordan for a 3rd consecutive season.
By Glass Half Full
October 11, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
Like many of you have said, we need to fill 3 gaps: 1 starting pitcher, 1 reliever, & 1 leftfielder with more pop than Langerhans.
By Glass Half Full
October 11, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
The Braves outlook for 2007 is much better than many teams.
By BB FAN
October 11, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
I can’t believe you think that every one run game in baseball is decided by luck and that speed and a good closer has nothing to do with it. That’s just ludicrous.
Anyway, I’m done with the topic.
Matthew,
I have seen or read (from multiple sources)that it’s not likely the White Sox will offer Posednik a contract in 2007. He only made $2.15 in 2006. So I can’t imagine a team giving him much more.
And Roberts made $2.25 mill in 2006. It would surprise me if he got much more than $3.5 or $4 mill because he will turn 35 in 2007.
By Antonio McNugget
October 11, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
Hey Grinch and Arkansas Hillbilly,
Its like coach like players.
After the game Tubby said this
“We are not gonna make any excuses, they had an off week to prepare and they came up with a good gameplan”
there you go…. CLASSLESS is definetly the word…
By tyyosh
October 11, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this
DOB’s point about the team’s identity is not to be overlooked. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Phillies players credit some of their surge to the transaction that seemed to transfer their identity from Abreu to Utley and Howard.
As long as humans play this game rather than computer simulations, things like this are always going to matter a LOT, IMHO. In 4 years this identity will hopefully belong to McCann and Francouer (maybe LaRoche also and others). I think it will be a good era for the franchise, based on what is seen so far about their makeup and attitude.
By Antonio McNugget
October 11, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
DOB
Can you hook me up with a link to parts 3 and 4 of your offseason piece I was out of time only caught the 1st 2, good stuff but cant find the rest anywhere.
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe you think that every one run game in baseball is decided by luck and that speed and a good closer has nothing to do with it. That’s just ludicrous.
I think one-run games are decided by the same thing that every other game is decided by—runs. A team with a high run differential would be expected to win more one-run games; if that team doesn’t win many one-run games it’s probably because of bad luck.
By Lew
October 11, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
KC, BBFAN, Shaun- I’m certainly in agreement about the benefits of speed at the top of the lineup. The thing is that so many fans think that we are going to run out (no pun intended) and get a true leadoff guy who is a basestealing threat. I just don’t think it will happen. Look at all the statements made by BC and JS and tell me why you would think that a leadoff hitter deal is even a vague possibility. They are going to concentrate on pitching. They have both said as much. BC has outright said he doesn’t think a prototypical leadoff hitter is a necessity. JS has vowed to put the pitching staff back to where it used to be. At no time has there been any indication that they even want a leadoff guy who can run. The same thing for the Andruw situation. He has said time and again he wants to stay here. He has said that the Braves CAN sign him long term if they want. JS has said he will not make any earth shattering trades that would “detonate the entire team and organization.” A trade of Andruw would certainly cause the explosion he states won’t happen. I just don’t understand why we can’t just take them all at their word. Giles will probably be traded. Think about him going to SD. That’s where he’s from, that’s where his brother plays, his family lives there and the Padres have stated that they intend to get offense. They need a 2nd baseman who can hit and they have more pitching than most teams. Giles for Linebrink (8th inning set up) and someone else. What do you think about that deal. It would pretty well take care of the bullpen and leave about $10 million for another starter and a RH bench player.
By rammerjammer
October 11, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
Didn’t JS say something a few months ago about not addressing the Wickman and Smoltz contracts until after the season…and then he turned around and signed them both before the season ended!
Just because he doesn’t bring up the leadoff man issue, that doesn’t mean it’s not on his mind.
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this
KC, BBFAN, Shaun, Lew,
Even without a “prototypical” leadoff hitter (with Giles or Renteria leading off) the Braves aren’t going to lose that many one-run games again next season.
They will likely finish in the top 5 in runs scored again. They probably will not finish as low as they did in the runs allowed rankings again, either.
By BB FAN
October 11, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
I’m sure there have been 90-100 win teams that did not have a great record in one run games. It’s likely to have happened many times.
Hell, the Braves were ~61-49 in games decided by more than one run this year. They were ~18-34 in one run games. If their record in those games was reversed, they would have made the playoffs and been within a couple of games of the Mets in the East. And that could have changed the East standings because the (Braves) players psyche would have been completely different going into September.
And like O’Brien said, the Mets had Reyes and Wagner and had a great record in one run games as they were ~ 32-16. And they were ~ 65-49 in games decided by more than one run which is similar to the Braves record in those circumstances.
Your idea to build a team to blow teams out is rediculous. You can’t just build a team that way. No matter how good a team is, they will play their share of one run games. And speed and a good closer help in those types of games.
The Braves got Wickman so the closer is taken care of. Now they just need to get a cheap leadoff hitter (Podsednik or Roberts or somebody similar) so they still have enough to improve the starting rotation.
Now I think I’m done with that topic. LOL
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this
Yes, I put my own name on my last post. I just copied and pasted. I’m not that messed up.
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
BB FAN,
You don’t build a team to blow out teams, per se. No one would think that you can blow out your opponents in every win. You build a team that can score as many runs as possible and allow as few runs as possible (or at least that’s what you should do).
And there is more than one way to increase your chances to score a lot of runs. Speed may help but is not a necessity—there have been plenty of teams that scored a lot of runs without speed in their lineup.
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
BB Fan,
I’m all for the Braves getting a speedy leadoff guy that gets on base a lot, but I just don’t think they should give up too much for it. The possibilities seem to expensive, not that good or not able to get on-base enough. Carl Crawford is not worth giving up two or three quality players and he’s probably going to be expensive.
By Matthew
October 11, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
I agree about Irons. He was outmatched by two better backs, and he felt the need to offer the famous excuse, “Well, they weren’t that good anyway.” It’s like askign a girl out, getting rejected, and then saying, “Well, she wasn’t my type anyway.”
If Podsednik and Roberts are that cheap, I say sign one of them and you won’t have to trade anybody. That allows us to offer a little more if we want a top-tier starter (I hadn’t thought about Lily, but that may work too).
I can’t wait to hear what happens. And before I forget, I have a ton of respect for Richt as well. I want Auburn to lose on Sat,. to solidify Arkansas’ SEC West crown, but I do like Georgia a lot. Even in thumping Arkansas in the SEC title game a few years ago, I still thoguht they played with class and respect. That is not often seen today.
Go Hogs, Dawgs, and Bravos!
By TennesseePaul
October 11, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this
BB FAN: if that team doesn’t win many one-run games it’s probably because of bad luck
I know Payne wrote this. But the point of it is… there is no known statistical reason, therefore it must be luck. That is the statistical analysis of unknowns. Things that cannot be quantified by a number are chalked up as luck. The statistician then moves on to the next thing.
A better lead off hitter might have affected a few of the Braves 1-Run games. But not that many. The majority of this seasons 1-Run games were due to horrid pitching. We scored enough to win, but the pitching was so frickin terrible we couldn’t over come it. If we take the second half team and put them back out on the field next year, we would win more of those 1-Run games. The second half team was far better than the first half. The second half team was a 90 win team. The first half team was a 65 win team.
If we are going to trade AJ and some of the other powerful bats, we will have to replace them with defense and pitching and speed. Pitching will be the most expensive, followed by boppers. But defense and speed will be less expensive. And even with speed, we will not be stealing that much. That isn’t the way Cox manages. But, with speed we will be able to make, on a more consistant basis, the Sid Bream slide home. Actually, had Bream been a faster individual, that play wouldn’t have even been close.
Speed is essential and useful without stealing. It gives the team the ability to go from 1B to 3B on a single, where as a high OBP slow running player could only move up to 2B, or get thrown out attempting to go to 3B. (I know, not every time, but most of the time.) This is why you would move a high OBP slow runner down in the order and move the high OBP fast runner up in the order.
Speed can put a runner at 3B with 1 out. No speed puts a gut at 2B. Speed can have a guy score from 2B, where no speed puts a guy at 3B. Speed is the difference of 90 feet. Speeds, though, relies entirely on the ability of the player to get on base. If he can’t get on base, then he isn’t much good. He can pinch run though. And then he plays a roll in a late inning play. But I’d rather have a bench full of guys that can get on base than speedsters.
By Head Coach
October 11, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this
You do not trade a HALL OF FAME GOLDGLOVE CENTERFIELDER in the prime of his career. Its a silly idea and thats all it is. And , yes there is a way to keep Andruw in a Braves uniform , upgrade the pitching , add a leadoff hitter and some speed and defense to the outfield. That includes keeping the team under the 80 million cap too. But thats a subject for a future blog.
By BB FAN
October 11, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
You are stuck on that scoring a lot of runs thing! That’s not what I’m talking about. I don’t think you understand what I mean. It’s manufacturing a run when you are down by one run! And speed helps do that. The Braves do score a lot of runs already. But there are games that they are not able to score 5 or 6 runs. Or they will just need that extra run.
Scott Podsedik and Dave Roberts are two cheap solutions. Whoever it is doesn’t have to have a .425 OBP. It would be nice, but that would be too expensive for the Braves. Just a speedy gritty kind of guy.
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
Maybe randomness would be a better word than luck.
Also, you hit the nail on the head—getting on-base is much more important than speed. Speed may help you get on-base, but not necessarily (Deion Sanders wasn’t a great baseball player). Speed will also help you around the bases, but does no good if you can’t get on base.
Yes, if two players had similar power and on-base ability, I’d rather have the faster one. But I’d take a high on-base/avoid outs guy over a speedy guy that doesn’t get on.
Then again, if speed helps a player get on or stretch singles into doubles, it will show up in his on-base percentage and slugging percentage (see Ichiro).
By KC
October 11, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
If Andruw really wants to be a Brave, this deal isn’t going to be all that difficult to get done.
If the Braves re-sign him, it will likely be for somthing in the 14 million a year range. That’s just not a whole lot more than what he’s making right now (13 million). People talk about it like the Braves are going to have to start paying him another 5-10 million a season. They’re not. At most he’ll earn a 2 million a year raise on what he’s already making.
The Braves are perfectly capapble of finding 2 million dollars a season.
By BB FAN
October 11, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
If you believe that one run games is based on luck only, then you and Shaun are both being foolish. (don’t that the wrong way)
A team can change it’s luck in one run games by improving certain aspects of it’s game. A closer was obvious for the Braves. But speed can “reck havoc” with the opposition. And speed doesn’t just have to be about stolen bases. The threat alone messes with a pitcher’s concentration. Ahh, you know, it’s already been explained in previous posts.
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this
BB FAN,
Yes, there are some games where the Braves may need one run. But the best way to score a run (yes, a single run) is by avoiding outs. Speed will obviously help, but it’s not necessarily going to lead to that one run you need. And in that situation, how are you going to guarantee that your fast leadoff hitter comes up or is on base? Wouldn’t it be better to find a cheap, fast guy that can pinch-run (Pete Orr?) in such a situation rather than overspend for an everyday speedster that is just an average hitter (Dave Roberts, Scott Podsednik)? With a speedy, cheap pinch-runner, you could better pick your spots to use him (ala Dave Roberts, 2004 ALCS Game 4) instead of hoping your speedster comes up or gets on when you need one run.
And if a guy uses speed as a weapon to get on or gain extra bases, it’s going to show up in his stats. If Scott Podsednik’s speed helped him so much, why did he post only a .330 OBP and .353 SLG? Without speed he may have been even worse, but his speed was pretty useless anyway (he was about 9.4 runs below what a fringe level player would be worth offensively according to Baseball Prospectus’s estimates).
And if you are a team with a great run differential, you aren’t going to have to worry too much about one-run games—you are probably going to win your fair share.
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this
BB FAN,
According to you, the Braves played in 57 games in which they scored three runs or less. That means they played 105 games in which they scored 4 or more. If they would have allowed 4 runs or less in around to 100 games, wouldn’t they probably be in the playoff right now pretty easily? And that’s ignoring the 57 low-scoring games.
By TennesseePaul
October 11, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
BBFAN: If you believe that one run games is based on luck only, then you and Shaun are both being foolish
No I do not in any way. But, I believe this season was more of a result of pitching than lack of speed.
By Shaun
October 11, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul, BB FAN,
Yes, if the Braves had pitched better it would have helped them win close games and more not-so-close games.
By Phat Bat Boy
October 11, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
DOB, you’re right I made a mistake about the reducing payroll statement. I meant to have said reducing the starting pitching payroll with hopes to use the money elsewhere. I’m the guy who several months ago wanted to know if the Braves had spent the lowest percent of salary on their bullpen of any other mid/major market team. I believe that was the case (pre-Wickman). So with the self-imposed salary cap, any reduction in functional areas (like starting pitching, middle infielders, etc.) could be used to build up that ‘pen. Yates, Boyer & McBride make a very good nucleus. But considering that not one of those guys has had more than maybe a half-season’s worth of success, it would be foolish not to try to add some experienced strength to that crew. The money must come from somewhere and if there is a worse value on this team than Hudson at this point, I’d be interested in knowing who that is (I’m giving Hampton the benefit of the doubt). Yankees HAVE to do something this off-season and Hudson’s reputation in the AL must still be worth a back-page headline or two in the Bronx.
(DOB, have you ever heard Aretha’s cover of “Bridge Over Troubled Waters”? One of the most soulful song ever recorded).
By Rodger
October 11, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this
Why is everyone so hyped on Yates? Did I miss something? When the guy could find the plate, it was usually the middle of it. I would have thought his neck would wear out before his arm!
By TennesseePaul
October 11, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
Games when the team scored 3 runs or less:
Record: 15-24
Average Differential: 3.05
35.2% of the seasons games.
Games when the differential was 3 runs or less:
Record: 48-60
67% of the seasons games.
1-Run Games: Record: 19-33
32.1% of the seasons games.
By TennesseePaul
October 11, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this
Braves Record had they allowed 4 runs on average: 79-83
In seasons past, Braves have allowed less than 4, and closer to 3 runs a game. Had they done that this season: 105-57.
By The Grinch
October 11, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
Phat Bat Boy: Hear, hear! Trading Hudson to the Yankees for whatever they’d give us would free up some much-needed salary.
Roger, you’re not missing anything; I’m as confused as you are. I think everyone’s excited that he can throw hard (albeit not accurately) and banking that since he’s coming off an injury he’ll rediscover the strike zone. Hampton, yes, because he knew how to pitch in the first place. Yates? I hope so.
By Matthew
October 11, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
Rodger:
I agree about Yates. I saw some definite potential, but I saw much more in Paronto. I don’t know why the hype is there, but i’m not nearly as good at evaluating talent as Cox and Co., so I’ll trust their judgment.
By Lew
October 11, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this
The facts about Yates-Missed the entire 05 season with surgery, so last season was the one year point. We’ve seen that 11/2-2 years after surgery, the pitcher is much improved. In 06, Yates pitched in 55 games and gave up Er in 12 of them. In June 13 app. Runs in 3. In July, 12 app. runs in ONE. August was bad-14 app. runs in 6. In Sept. and Oct-16 app. runs in 2. Looks to me as if he really only had one bad month. You need to look closer at his stats. Lots of upside for Yates. One bad month after missing an entire year and rehabbing ain’t shabby at all.
By Head Coach
October 11, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this
Excuse me , but why would the Yankees attempt to trade for Tim Hudson when they can just simply buy a Barry Zito , Jason Schmidt , Andy Pettitte or Roger Clemens ? Why ? somebody please explain this logic ?
By berigan
October 11, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
They are saying that Cory Lidle was the pilot of the plane that crashed into the high-rise in New York…..
By Thomas
October 11, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this
Potential Leadoff Hitters:
On the Block:
By rammerjammer
October 11, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this
Yates brings heat, especially important and useful if your closer doesn’t. Look at the Tigers. Padres, too. It’s not a bad formula. Paronto’s problem - if you want to call it that - is that he’s too much like Wickman to set up Wickman.
By Thomas
October 11, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this
LIDLE DEAD…………
By Lew
October 11, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this
Head Coach-You’re right about Hudson and the Yankees. The same goes for Andruw to the Angels-they can just go buy Soriano or Carlos Lee. Why give up players for Andruw?
By TennesseePaul
October 11, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this
Such a drag. Cory Lidle is dead.
By MGL
October 11, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this
If you have not heard, the plane that crashed into the Manhatten apartment building was registered to NYY pitcher Cory Liddle.
By The Grinch
October 11, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this
Lew and Head Coach, when I said for “Whatever they’ll give us” I meant that literally. Even if it’s just a kit-kat bar. They’ll probably get Zito and/or Schmidt as well, don’t you think they’d like to take the chance on Hudson? That’d be a pretty stout rotation (assuming he bounces back, which I don’t but they might). That bloated salary won’t bother them and we can spend what we save on someone or something more dependable that fits our budget better.
By Head Coach
October 11, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this
okey doky , Grinch wants to trade Hudson’s 218 innings 35 starts and 13 wins for a kit kat bar. Go for it dude…….. I won’t hold my breath.
By The Grinch
October 11, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this
If I could replace those wins for half the price (hell, we could do that with Villareal for much less than that) and get a lead-off hitter too? You bet. This ain’t the good ol’ days of Turner money anymore; gotta do what’s prudent.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
October 11, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this
Man, what a tragedy about Corey Lidle. That is awful. The guys on ESPN are talking about how it could have been a lot worse. And they are right but they aren’t even sure if his wife knows yet. Terrible. I feel for his family and friends. My heart and prayers go out to them.
This is the kind of thing though that makes teams put those clauses in players’ contracts about activities dangerous to their bodies and ability to play the game.
Something like this puts sports in its proper perspective. But, at the same time if I were a GM I would do the same thing and make these guys sign a contract with those kind of stipulations on it.
Look at Rothlesberger. That could have been a lot worse than what it was.
By Thomas
October 11, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this
Potential Leadoff Hitters:
On the Block:
By Thomas
October 11, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this
Who are the broadcasters for Espn.
By JJMB
October 11, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this
Are they going to rename the World Series? The Cory Lidle Series?
Ahh, I guess the talking heads have to talk about something. However, as a private pilot myself, I know people die all the time flying in general aviation. Frankly, people die all the time for all kinds of reasons.
As a G.A. pilot, I also know it takes some doing to put yourself in a position to crash into a building.
Why do I type this? It’s because of the asymmetric importance people place on athletes. There’s a little 8yo girl in my neighborhood dying of cancer right now. That’s truly tragic.
By TennesseePaul
October 11, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this
Let’s go TIGERS!!! Keep those filthy A’s out of it.
By Carolina Lady
October 11, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this
JJMB, I spent a lot of years in GA, commercial aviation, and in accident investigation - and one thing I do know: it is usually a series of events that lead up to the accident itself. This led to this which led to this that led to…..etc. A mayday was sent out so obviously there was a severe problem with the a/c. An instructor was aboard so he was most likely PIC. No one will know why they turned toward the buildings rather than toward the river - or if they even had control or partial control. We both know that the investigation will take a very long time and sometimes all the answers are never discovered.
I agree with your point on emphasis placed on tragedies related to/involving celebrities. News media rarely have their priorities in proper order. Too often I see wide-eyed, breathless “reporters” excitedly “reporting” on something of little consequence, but they try to make a Pulitzer event out of it. I had to plain laugh when one of these people was at the beach during the approach of a hurricane, reporting on conditions at the beach. (Duh. Now what would you expect??) Excitedly pointing to the breakers rolling in, she was raving on and on about the “storm surges” coming in. (roll eyes here).
Well, enough about that. It IS sad and I’m truly sorry it happened. And I’m especially sad to learn of the child you mentioned. Tragedy is around all of us every minute of every day. Some we know about, some we don’t. That’s another reason to treat people around us well; we don’t know what they are dealing with. And today’s event underscores the need to treat those in our immediate circles especially well; you can’t count on tomorrow.
By TommyB
October 11, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this
Howdy CL,
I was watching a local NY station and listening to several eyewitness reports. Several reported seeing what they were calling “acrobatics.” Specifically, that included seeing one wing drop steeply. In addition, other eyewitness reports said they heard “sputtering.” Could be trouble with one of the two engines, which, as you know, is Big Trouble keeping control of the plane.
By Carolina Lady
October 11, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this
Hi, Tommy! I think that particular aircraft was a single engine. Lidle was a new pilot and would be rated for single engine, land. Twin engines are another horse race. If they lost power (speculation on my part) naturally they would lose airspeed and altitude, but I’m not familiar with that aircraft, so I don’t know it’s handling characteristics. Some a/c will trim up and stay in the air a long time without power while others won’t. Too many variables to even guess. But, believe me! every component will be investigated to the Nth degree and every fact that CAN be established will be. I don’t know the current people at NTSB, but I do know that that agency has a history of having very good people working there.
By journalist jimmy smith
October 11, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this
roll, pitch, yaw, right? carolina lady is wise to the ways of aircraft. lessons garnered at kitty hawk (wink, wink)?
By TommyB
October 11, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this
You are correct. I was going on the reports that were (then anyway) saying twin-engines. It is a single. Do you think the trainer had taken control?
By Drummerdad
October 11, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this
DOB, I just read your piece on Adam Wainwright. Started me to thinking in terms of evaluating some recent trades JS has made. The Sheffield trade worked and made sense. The Marquis, King, Wainwright trade was a bust. The Cardinals still have 2 of the 3 players we gave them and we are the rape victim of another Scott Boras player. I look back feeling as though we may have been fleeced in the Kolb deal not only by what Kolb did and did not do, but by the sales job we were given when the trade was made.
Then there was the Barfsworth deal with Detroit. Didn’t we give up two players for him? One being Zach Minor? I know that there are times when a team makes a calculated decision to give up some future to win now. (1987 Doyle Alexander to Detroit for John Smoltz.)
I think some folks have made more of the Betemit trade than is warranted. It’s understandable because he’s one of our own. But it just strikes me that because of the payroll restrictions we have been giving away more than we have been getting in some recent trades.
I’m just throwing out some questions for offseason banter and ping pong.
By Carolina Lady
October 11, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this
Tommy, one thing I forgot to address was the reference to the “acrobatic” flight: when an aircraft loses power it naturally loses airspeed. When the airspeed bleeds off to a certain point the aircraft will want to stall - ie. quit flying. That’t the point at which it can no longer sustain forward flight. Most aircraft will drop one wing and begin to spin downward. Every student pilot is taught to recover from spins and what is called “unusual attitudes.” BUT it takes altitude, the ability to reestablish airspeed, and control of the aircraft to do it. Everything is an ‘unknown’ right now. We’ll just have to wait.
By journalist jimmy smith
October 11, 2006 11:13 PM | Link to this
oh, the humanity! jimmy smith cannot let the kitty hawk blunder go! will carolina lady ever forgive this journalist? this journalist is ashamed of this journalist. journalist jimmy smith should be exercising more restraint. did no one wake up bob?
By Carolina Lady
October 11, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this
jjs, I learned everything I know from Orville and Wilbur! :-)
(My first love was a light green Super Cub 130, N8056C, affectionately called Charlie, with a Lycoming 130. LOVED that little airplane! Orville was a bit jealous of it.)
By The Grinch
October 11, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this
JJS, did you not learn the first time to avoid that land (air) mine? :-) Tragic, indeed; but we must all come to it, wot, wot?
Man, Detroit’s pitching tonight is filthy. They’ve got a starter who’s 23 and hits triple digits plus a nasty curve, a set-up guy with a 98mph heater and his best pitch is the change, and Zumaya who speaks for himself. Why do we never draft/aquire this kind of talent? WTF?
By Carolina Lady
October 11, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this
Tommy, I would think that the Instructor would have taken control. No instructor will sit there and let an inexperienced pilot/student handle a situation that desperate! The little I know, and it is little, is that the engine lost power while they were over the island and they dropped from an altitude of 1500 feet to about 400 feet when radar lost track.
By journalist jimmy smith
October 11, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this
grinch, we were forced to watch reitsma and remlinger for far too long this season. watching adam wainwright pitch for the cardinals was so painful that this journalist slapped this journalist several times to get this journalist’s attention. dob quotes wainwright as saying the trade was a blessing. does he feel he was able to develop there as a pitcher better than in the braves organization? seems like it. maybe dob will tell us more.
todd jones is in a bit of a mess. tigers win!
By flbravesgirl
October 11, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this
JJMB& CL, I think part of it is the tendency that people have of making athletes (or sometimes other celebrities) “larger than life”. Seems like every so often in baseball, we get reminded that these guys are mere mortals too.
It was upsetting to me to read that news reports had already announced his death before his wife was notified. My family’s had the sad experience of returning home from a trip and finding out abruptly that a relative had passed away. I can’t imagine how horrible it was for his wife.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
October 11, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this
I hate to say this but I wonder if this much coverage would have been given to Lidle if it hadn’t of happened in NY and he wasn’t a Yankee.
By Carolina Lady
October 12, 2006 12:08 AM | Link to this
RJIB, you are SO right! (How many people died on America’s highways today?)
By Carolina Lady
October 12, 2006 12:13 AM | Link to this
An earlier post correcting myself seems to have got lost in cyberspace….. I typed one thing while thinking something else: it was a Super Cub 135, Lycoming 135 engine. It’s late……. :-))
By David O'Brien
October 12, 2006 12:29 AM | Link to this
What a surreal day/night at the ballpark. We’re sitting there typing, talking, etc, at about 4:30, when Gordon Edes from the Globe puts his hand over the phone (he was on a call) and says with an incredulous tone, “That was Cory Lidle in that plane!”
After the sentence registered in our brains, we’re all, like, no freakin’ way. Yankees pitcher flys into a building in Manhattan hours before Game 1 of the Mets’ NLCS … someone’s playing a cruel, cruel joke.
If only it had been. Wow. What a terrible thing. So strange, too. I just wonder if we’re going to eventually get some reasonable explanation for how that plane ended up turning basically around like that and ramming the building, why the instructor didn’t do something, why an instructor would allow Lidle to fly into restricted airspace like that over Manhattan, etc. Just so many weird things that lead to awful speculation…
Hudson was really shaken up by the whole thing. He and his wife were really tight with the Lidles. The two wives had been pregnant at same time when the guys were A’s teammates, and they became good friends, the families and all….
Anyway, changing subjects abruptly: Wainwright gave me the impression that he believes he’s developed more with the Cards than he might have with the Braves. Of course, he might just be saying that because he’s feeling so good about all that’s happened recently, not really considering that the same thing might have happened in a few years with the Braves. But hey, the kid’s happy and can’t argue with the results he’s getting under tutelage of Dave Duncan and careful use by Tony La Russa….
Rammerjammer, don’t exclude me from the ranks of the unwashed masses. I’m a solid member of that fraternity.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
October 12, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this
Yeah, that is weird about the plane turning around. I wonder why it turned around. And like DOB said, why did the instructor not step in and take over if Lidle was having problems.
By The Grinch
October 12, 2006 01:59 AM | Link to this
Sorry, Y’all; I’ve been absent since my last post.
Journalist Jimmy, we both had to watch R&R, which nobody should EVER, EVER have to do (someone hold him back!)…I’m ok…huff, huff…but you being kidnapped and having to listen to 72 straight hours of Joe Morgan on top of that…how can you function, man? Someone give that journalist some relief! A medal; some frosty cold root beer…morphine…why can’t we have Wainwright back? Just for one season? Any of tonight’s Tiger’s pitchers? Please? We don’t ask much.
CL, what makes you think you’re qualified to discuss aircraft? I’ll thank you to stay in the kitchen where you belong…
(DUCK) :-)
By Head Coach
October 12, 2006 02:21 AM | Link to this
Adam Wainwright , Zach Minor , Roman Colon , Jose Capellan…… You see what happens when young talented inexpensive pitchers get traded ? they end up helping other teams and the Braves come up short in the pitching deparment.
By brian
October 12, 2006 02:43 AM | Link to this
How exactly has Roman Colon helped the Tigers. Last time I checked he was sent to the minors and may miss all of next season due to an injury. As far as Zazh Minor he may of had a good 10 start run but as far as the last month of the season he had more than a poor showing.
The Wainwright deal helped us exactly how we wanted. We got great production out of Drew and Marrero. It hurts he’s turing out to be so valueable but it’s taken 3 seasons. If the Cards thought he could help them he should have been in the rotation earlier. Seems to me that if Looper worked out as they hoped and Izzy didn’t get hurt Adam wouldn’t have a prodominant role on the club.
BTW Farnsworth was amazing as a Brave except for one game in Houston. Amazing how the Yanks have taken Braves pitchers and regreted it later.
By Head Coach
October 12, 2006 05:45 AM | Link to this
Brian , your an idiot.
By ssiscribe
October 12, 2006 07:48 AM | Link to this
As a Braves fan, it’s tough to see Wainwright pitching so well as a closer. But as somebody who got to know him just a little when I was on the coast, I couldn’t be happier.
He’s a great guy with tremendous talent and the right attitude. It’s cool to see him pitching the ninth in playoff games. Spent a little bit of time with him in spring training and in Miami earlier this season, and you really could see that he understood what it takes to pitch at the major league level.
Thrilled for him and his success, and I know everybody back on the SSI is, too. Another one the Braves shouldn’t have let get away.
—30—
By Shaun
October 12, 2006 08:06 AM | Link to this
Are they going to rename the World Series? The Cory Lidle Series?
Ahh, I guess the talking heads have to talk about something. However, as a private pilot myself, I know people die all the time flying in general aviation. Frankly, people die all the time for all kinds of reasons.
As a G.A. pilot, I also know it takes some doing to put yourself in a position to crash into a building.
Why do I type this? It’s because of the asymmetric importance people place on athletes. There’s a little 8yo girl in my neighborhood dying of cancer right now. That’s truly tragic.
Isn’t all death tragic? (Unless it’s the death of a truely evil person, maybe.)
Of course the media is going to cover the death of a famous person perhaps more than they should because a) the media is more likely to know that person and b) it’s probably more likely to attract viewers.
It’s human nature to pay more attention to things that affect us. If someone I know dies, I’m going to make a bigger deal out of it than if Joe Schmoe in Topeka, KS dies.
Also, while it’s sad that the media uses tragedy for profit, is it surprising to anyone? And does the media deserve all the blame. I hate to admit this but as a baseball fan, when I flipped on ESPN and heard the news, I kept watching because I wanted more information.
We live in a county with freedom of the press, which is a beautiful thing. But the price is that we have to deal with the media covering things that they want to cover because of their biases and desire for profit. But it beats the government or some dictator controlling the press. My advice to everyone: Take the media for what they are worth and be skeptical. Realize they have biases (as we all do) and be glad that you have plenty of ways to gain information in this country.
By Carolina Lady
October 12, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this
GRINCH!! You are in BIIIIIIG trouble!
By Shaun
October 12, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this
Man, Detroit’s pitching tonight is filthy. They’ve got a starter who’s 23 and hits triple digits plus a nasty curve, a set-up guy with a 98mph heater and his best pitch is the change, and Zumaya who speaks for himself. Why do we never draft/aquire this kind of talent? WTF?
See 1993-2002—A rotation featuring Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz, quite possibly the best pitching staff in history.
By Lew
October 12, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
Ma’am-You’ll have to pardon The Grinch, he has issues. Head Coach- Just why do you think Brian is an idiot? Tell me what he said that was wrong. If you look up the stats on the ex-Braves pitchers you mentioned, what he says is entirely accurate. Zach Miner was 7-6 with a 4.84 ERA, 100 Hits and 32 BB in 93 IP. He was so bad the last month of the season, I dropped him from my fantasy team and I had no chance to win. Cappelan’s last 3 games he pitched 8 innings, gave up 10Er, 14Hits and 5BB. Colon is on the 60 day DL. He had a 4.89 ERA with 1 save, 46 Hits and 14BB in 38 IP. Matt Belisle (one of the nicest players I’ve ever met) had a 3.60 ERA, 43 Hits and 19BB in 43IP. None of these were sterling performances. To take this one step further (apologies to Savoy Brown) let’s look at Jason Marquis, another pitcher whose name comes up when traded pitchers are mentioned-14-16 6.02 ERA, 221 Hits and 75BB in 194 IP. Wow, the pitchers JS gave up sure have shone, haven’t they? I won’t call you an idiot like you did to Brian, but you need to check your facts a bit more often.
By journalist jimmy smith
October 12, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this
the grinch has taken all the heat off this journalist with his ill-advised remark to carolina lady. now, baseball … why is this journalist pulling against tom glavine in the playoffs? why is this journalist hoping tom glavine gets shelled? journalist is uncertain about these feelings for an ex-brave. journalist does not wish to see tom glavine back for the braves. ah, jd drew leaves after one season and wainwright is gone forever. bad deal. and what of all the young braves pitchers who have arm troubles now? maybe this isn’t the organization that is best at developing young pitchers.
By David O'Brien
October 12, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
Good points, Lew. And you could have added that Marquis was so mediocre, La Russa dropped him from the playoff roster for the NLCS. Opted for Anthony Reyes instead.
It’s a bit of a stretch to point to one or two guys (Wainwright being the obvious one at this moment) and make the generalization that Schuerholz has gotten screwed on a lot of trades involving pitchers.
Much as they would’ve liked to keep Wainwright, Braves weren’t going to get J.D. Drew in a trade for nothing. And Drew definitely helped them win the division that year. It’s taken Wainwright three years to make an impact at the big league level. He’s beginning to live up to early billing now, at 25.
As Lew pointed out, not like most of those other guys have set the world on fire after being traded by Braves in past couple seasons.
By The Grinch
October 12, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this
See, CL? Don’t you feel more energetic and focused now that you’ve had a good yell? Besides, that wasn’t me last night. That was, umm…stinky. Yeah.
D’oh! :-o
Lew, there you go again with facts.
By rammerjammer
October 12, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this
Marquis was left off the Cards NLCS roster, correct? I think he’s been a disappointment with St. Loo.
Regardless, Drew and Marrero gave us what we wanted when we wanted it. The development of Wainwright just underscores the risk of dealing young pitchers. A guy like Davies, with really nasty stuff, could be the next one.
DOB? You, dude, are the shepherd of the UM sheep.
By TennesseePaul
October 12, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this
Adam Wainwright , Zach Minor , Roman Colon , Jose Capellan… You see what happens when young talented inexpensive pitchers get traded
At the beginning of this season, this list included Jason Marquis. Oh the horror that was that trade. We let Marquis go. Amazing how Marquis is no longer lamented. The Cards don’t even want him in the post season. Besides, Wainwright is the only one that is really, really on the up and up. Minor is doing well, but Colon eh. At the time we got Farnsworthless for him and it was praised as a great trade. I shall not speak of the Capellan deal, even though that guy can’t throw a curve ball.
But at any rate, we have quite a bit of young pitching in our system. Chuck James, Davies, Lerew, McBride, Devine, and the grip of others that won all the minor league pitching awards (Jammie Richmond and the likes). It’s unfortunate that we can’t keep every one of our players while simultaneously acquiring all the other teams players. If we could, we’d beat the snot out of all those remaining 2 player teams all year.
By 22oz
October 12, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this
I got home from work yesterday afternoon, turned on espn, and they were talking to peter gammons about lidle, and the espn guy actually asked peter this question: “what impact will this have on the yankee pitching staff next season?” wow.
By Carolina Lady
October 12, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this
jjs, that relief may be shortlived…..I’m still plotting…………… :-)))
By The Grinch
October 12, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
Journalist Jimmy, I think it would be a good idea for both of us to avoid small aircraft for a while. :-)
22oz, that’s utterly reprehensible but it certainly doesn’t surprise me. Journalists aren’t often among the most sensitive crowd. Just think, the guy’s wife and kid had already borded a plane for L.A. when the news got out. Can you imagine what her flight must’ve been like if she heard en route? That’s another problem with being famous.
By Shaun
October 12, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this
Trading Young Pitchers
Like O’Brien said, you have to give up something to get something. If you need something, trading some young pitching is not a bad way to get it because most young pitchers do not become anything. Minor league pitching is so unpredictable. Should you trade all your young pitchers? Of course not. But you can’t be afraid to give up something to get something if you think that you are a player or two away from getting into the playoffs or the World Series.
By TennesseePaul
October 12, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
ESPN Hall of Fame
On the news of Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle’s death: what impact will this have on the yankee pitching staff next season?
ESPN announcers at the ALDS, coaching a former baseball player on how to call a game well: Ernie, what are you doing? This is ESPN. You don’t have to keep score.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
October 12, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
22 oz. That’s absolutely disgusting to me. Somebody needs to get a wake-up call and realize that this occurence, for a change, ain’t about the Yankee organization. This is bigger than the game. This is bigger than the 30 minute report on how the Yankees will be so devastated because this is so reminiscent of how they lost Thurman Munson. This guy left behind a wife and a 6-year-old child for Pete’s sake. Show a little compassion for them and quit making everything about the Damn New York Yankees for once…..
By The Grinch
October 12, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this
Y’all, I don’t want to alarm anyone, but the Falcons and Thrashers have both started the season 3-1. Pigs will be flying shortly.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
October 12, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
…And get out of the people’s yard with all the flashbulbs and notepads and other b.s. If that happened to me and I came home to a yard full of people flashing cameras in my face, I’d be removing some eyeballs like Uma did on Daryl Hannah in K.B. v2. Sorry ‘bout the vent session folks.
By Carolina Lady
October 12, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this
Dont apologize, Arkansas! That one is justified. They have no sense of decency and many times behave like a pack of junkyard dogs. I once asked a reporter to withhold some information for a short time we’re talking about maybe an hour) until someone from the Human Factors team had time to talk to the next of kin. He told me that somebody was going to be first with the news and it might as well be him. Then he said (and I quote), “It isn’t often we get to break a story; that’s air time!” and grinned. That’s the priority - themselves and their ‘glory’. With a few exceptions, I have little regard for them. OK, OK, soap box stowed….. :-)))
By rammerjammer
October 12, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this
I spent more than a decade in TV, and your observations are right on the mark. The good, decent reporters are going the way of the dinosaur, replaced by clueless bimbos, insensitive jerks and dumbfounded jocks…all with orders to raise those ratings at any cost.
By Lew
October 12, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Grinch-I think those flying pigs have left their manure on the field at Ruben James Stadium in Tampa. This has been a forgettable year for the Bucs.
By David O'Brien
October 12, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
OK, never let it be said that yours truly isn’t always thinking of the good folks in our fair corner of the blogosphere. New blog is posted. Or should be. I just filed it. I’m off to Shea, where the temp is going to start dropping soon. Low around 48-49 tonight.
By Antonio McNugget
October 12, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
Matthew You have to admit you guys are still thanking God everyday you stole that game against the Tide. I know it doesnt matter how you win, but the better team lost that game.
By Matthew
October 12, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this
Antonion McNugget:
A win’s a win, I don’t care if it’s by forfeit. And the better team lost the next week while the “worse” team destroyed Auburn. The end of the season will bear that out. And besides, we didn’t “steal” anything. That kicker has a scholie to kick field goals, and he had multiple chances. He blew it, Arkansas scored, kicked the PAT, and earned the win.
Go Hogs and Braves!
By Arkansas Hillbilly
October 12, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
I can’t speak for Matthew, but, McNugget, I couldn’t agree more. We were handed that game on a silver platter, kinda like some of the past Braves teams handed away some World Series victories. You take it how you can get it. Any clothes fit a naked man. But no one can say we didn’t earn the Auburn game. Not even Unimpessed Irons.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
October 12, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
And I’ll add that everybody has their share of “undeserved” victories, so to speak, but it all irons out in the end.
By The Grinch
October 12, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this
Man, this didn’t even print my last post. I’ll wait ‘till the next one’s up.
By Head Coach
October 12, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
Some of you guys will never , ever understand the inner workings of a baseball team. Marquis is an aggregate 43-37 from 04-06 . He ate up 200 innings three years in a row and helped the Cardinals into the playoffs all three seasons. Now Wainwright is contributing as a closer after struggling with arm problems. You people have no friggin clue how to evaluate and value pitching , none ! The J.D. Drew trade was unnecessary altogether , the Braves could have stuck a platoon in his place and they still would have won the division. The Braves traded two FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK PITCHERS in order to rent an outfielder for one season , it was and will remain an absolutely horrendous trade and Im right and I know im right. you dont trade pitching unless you are getting pitching in return , otherwise you will get burned in the long run.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
October 12, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
And also we played well enough to still be in contention at the end of the game, so maybe we did deserve it…..All in all, we proved last week that we’re not gonna roll over, play dead, and wait for somebody to “let us win” I think I’m beginning to contradict myself now. (Note to self: Shut up before I start arguing with myself.)
By Antonio McNugget
October 12, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
Also that kicker was a TRUE FRESHMEN.
Our starter Jamie “Money” Christensen was hurt the first 4 weeks of the season. But again, a win is a win. And your right steal isnt the right word. Though it has been in the past, not this year. That was just a freshmen kicker getting the shanks.
Anyway Your welcome, and thanks for beating Aubarn, they needed that
By Michael Bicknell
October 12, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this
Cool Townes reference. See if you can work in a little Steve Earle or Butch Hancock.
By David
October 14, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
I honestly believe that Andrew Jones should be the Most Valuable Player (MVP) of the National League. The reason why I say that is because Andrew Jones has been in the league for approximately 10 years. This season, Andrew had what was considered a very good year 40+ home runs; 120+ runs batted in, he batted around .260 which is not great; however, his defensive excellence in center field compensates and overshadows a low batting average because Andrew makes up for that by playing the most spectacular defense in baseball——Andrew has been the best defensive player in the last 10 years and has made more spectacular plays than anyone in baseball. In addition, Andrew prevents numerous runs from scoring because of his defensive genious, prowess and excellence in the outfield and this translates to his pitchers having lower era’s when Andrew is playing defense behind the starting pitcher. If you take all of that into consideration, I think that Andrew Jones should win the MVP award at least once in his career—he is already carving out quite a nice career for himself and will almost certainly be included on Hall-Of-Fame ballots when his career has ended. I really can’t understand why Andrew’s name is mentioned in possible trades, when he is such a valuable commodity for the Braves.
By Daybed Wagmoe
October 14, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this
i’m glad to see some Dave Roberts talk on this blog. i think that carl crawford should be #1 on the schuerholz’s list, with roberts the close second on that list, especially given that he’s a free agent.
crawford’s stats are just better, but i think that the braves would be remiss not to try to sign roberts. he’ll turn 35 at the end of may…
juan pierre couldn’t throw out the trash, and you want him to be our starting LF?
DOB - what do you think about dave roberts?