Braves

By hk

October 2, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

… here’s the final hitter’s ‘MVP’…

… Braves led the league in slugging avg, total bases, 2nd in homers, runs, rbi’s … since Wickman arrived, Braves are 2nd in reliever era (3.68), 2nd to last in starter era (4.84) …

… Smoltz numbers look every bit as good as other Cy Young contenders, tied for league lead in wins, close to the top in IP, era, strikeouts, whip …

Betimet-Braves/La - .281/.241 avg, .344/.306 obp, .842/.742 ops …

Aybar—-Braves/La - .313/.250 avg, .391/.356 obp, .694/.764 ops …

Year End..Runs..Homers..RBI’s..MVP..Last

Andruw….107…..41…..129…277…275

Frenchy….83…..29…..103…215…212

LaRoche….89…..32……90…211…215

Chipper….87…..26……86…199…194

Renteria..100…..14……70…184…181

McCann…..61…..24……93…178…176

Giles……87…..11……60…158…158

Betemit….49…..18……53…120…116

Langy……46……7……28….81….81

Team Average……………….177…174

click here for chart

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 2, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this

hey DOB,

of the players on the roster this year, whose contracts have expired this year and will be up for free agency? which players have options that may or may not be exercised (and do you think the braves will exercise those options)? will any braves (brian jordan, todd pratt) retire after this year? who’s up for arbitration?

finally, what do you think of dave roberts for left field? a leadoff hitter with speed and good defense — i think he’d be a great sign, and from what i understand, he’s a free agent at the end of the year.

By Bobby

October 2, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

DOB, Long-time, first-time, in the parlance of talk radio. Anyway, thanks for a first-rate job this year. I know this team was as frustrating to cover as they were to watch at times, so I appreciate your dedication, especially to the blog. Enjoy the offseason.

By doc

October 2, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

man it is hard to believe the season is over and it got away from us so quickly, seems like yesterday i am sitting in orlando more optimistic than i have been in years wishing you dave a safe trip to the west coast. hope the team doesnt have to go through a murderous start away from home next year and there are some bodies that decide to stay healthy for a season, among other items. good to hear the transition to the new owners is going smoothly and the product will get a few more dollars to play with this off season; that is crucial.

By Paul

October 2, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

First, Vinnie Chase is not going to play Joey. Second, the braves streak is over. Third, being stuck in the new york metro area and listening to all the Yanks/Mets coverage. Not a good few months. Cant see anyone beating the Yanks (maybe the twins or mets….but doubt it) KC- Byrd had a monster year posting a 4.88 era. Hampton is a superior athlete, has a career era under 4, and has far better stuff. You even said he was on the brink of being an elite starter before the injury. Byrd at best is a third man in a rotation.
nuff said

By Randy

October 2, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

Great news about the payroll! No doubt we are much improved already.

With Wickman and Hampton coming back we have already started to address our two biggest concerns closer & starting pitching.

Let’s spend our money on adding another starter (cut bait with Thomson, Horatio, and Davies)

And also pick up someone who can add some punch in left field…can you say Alfonso Soriano?? (I know. It’s not going to happen)

By TennesseePaul

October 2, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the updates DOB.

I’m looking forward to this offseason. I’m bummed they aren’t playing, but maybe all this extra time will grant them the opportunity to really compile and narrow down the list of players they want to focus on. Who knows.

In other news, I’m at the Games this weekend in LA. Should be fun cheering against the Mets.

By Mike

October 2, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

Sometimes you have to take a step back before you can take a step forward. Imagine next year. We’re the underdogs.

By BDinNY

October 2, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for a great blog all season long. While this season was a massive disappointment, we had to miss the playoffs at some point and we certainly deserved it this year. Almost better to not have to watch the Braves be the NL team that gets pummeled by the AL champions… methinks it’ll be ugly.

Moreover, based on certain unprecedented pre-end-of-season moves, it seems that this season’s results may serve as a much needed wakeup call to the higher-ups that certain “needs” cannot go unaddressed for over 1/2 the season if you expect to field a WS contender.

I have a lot of optimism over next year, many of the guys exceeded their expectations and I look forward to reading all about it from your blog and articles. Thanks again!

By parks

October 2, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

Thompson is gone imo …Horacio will be kept as a spot starter with a chance to earn a spot imo….No way you let go of Davies

By dadgum

October 2, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

Parks and others…..the “no way you let go of him” type players will be gone in abundance. Not sayig it will be Davies. He is better to suit up in AA or AAA for the Braves. Granted the guy just can’t pitch in the bigs but the Braves may give him some time in the minors instead of passing. More experienced pitchers will be gone though to acquire prior mentioned needs. Gotta think either Horacio or Hudson will be gone for sure.

By Calvin

October 2, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

Mr. Obrien already stated in a previous blog that Thomson will be a free agent and won’t be back, which is probably a good thing considering is injury problems the past two years.

By Andy

October 2, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

dave—hell of a year. Thanks. I love the braves and the ability to check in and discuss…I can’t imagine getting through this season without this blog.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

As much as it pains me to realize there is no Braves’ playoff baseball coming tomorrow or Wednesday, I have to say this season will be a good thing for the Braves. It will be good for the players, coaches, and front office. The older players now realize that a division title isn’t a given and they can’t just “show up”. The younger guys now realize that being in the playoffs isn’t some birthright you’re entitled to once you become a Brave. And the front office (JS and Cox) now realize that they can’t just keep bringing in scrap heap and reject pitchers and turning them into Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson for a season or two. They have to get proven guys or guys with emense talent to fill the holes. They have realized that “veteran” players have to be more than guys with years of MLB service but guys who can still actually play.

I firmly believe the same mistakes won’t be made again. JS and Cox’s pride has been hurt and these guys, in the twilight of thier careers, won’t allow themselves to go out as losers.

I was glad to hear that the payroll will stay the same if not increase. I was also glad to hear of the coming coaching changes. I love Corrales and Dews but some fresh blood needs to be brought in. I actually hope that TP will be named the bench coach, so another hitting coach, who is willing to take charge of these guys, will be brought in. I hope Cox brings in some younger guys who can relate to the players but still is willing to get in their butts and not his buddies of the old guard.

By fugetaboutit

October 2, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this

Lets go Mets!!!!!!

By David O'Brien

October 2, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

Thanks much, all. Makes it worthwhile.

Robert and others who’ve expressed view that this step back is good: I agree, and only in the past couple weeks did I come around to that way of thinking.

Seeing how genuinely hurt and embarrassed (at times) that these guys were, and how fired up they seem to get back to work and not let it happen again, I think there’s no question the Braves are better off with this wakeup call of sorts than they would’ve been in winning the wild card and getting their butts kicked by the Dodgers, which I’m afraid would’ve happened because after Smoltz the pitching’s a crapshoot (James would’ve been in his first postseason, remember).

Daybed, I’ll get back to you soon on free agents, etc. That’s too much work for right now. Frankly, I’m ready to relax tonight after filing couple more things and the blog today.

The only real significant free agents were Wickman, Thomson and Baez (and don’t know if the latter two were too significant, given Thomson’s disappointing season and Baez’s short stint here and fact he was so unlikely to return because of salary and his wish to close again).

Smoltz was only significant option, and it was picked up obviously.

Jordan hasn’t retired, but I think he will when he sees the lack of interest likely to be expressed in him. Can’t see any way he’s back with Braves

Don’t know about Horacio, no decision made yet on him. They’ll see what’s out there, who might be interested in Horacio, whether they could get a better pitcher for a similar salary and fill another need by trading him, etc.

Only near-certainty of important players who could leave, to me, is Giles. I just think he’s gone, but I’m not saying it’s a done deal. Haven’t heard it definitively yet.

By the way, I don’t think I’ve mentioned this yet, and I know it’s not been reported because Braves never announced it when he was hired: Roger McDowell is the only Braves coach under contract right now for next season. By that I mean, he was only one with a two-year deal. Others are year-to-year.

They never give multi-year deals to coaches (which came up when Leo got the three-year offer from Baltimore), but Braves weren’t going to be able to get Roger away from Dodgers without offering him more than one year, since he was believed to be in line for Dodgers pitching coach job and wouldn’t have wanted to give up security he had in that organization for a one-year deal here. Now you know.

Pendleton will be back in the hitting coach job, I’m certain, unless he takes a managerial job, which I don’t think he’s too interested in unless it’s just a great, great opportunity.

Can’t argue with Braves’ offensive results, top three in virtually every category. You can point to individuals who you’re frustrated with, etc, but remember, Francoeur’s only 22 and he did hit 29 homers and drive in more than 100 runs. Pretty damn solid, despite the poor average and OBP.

And McCann … wow. LaRoche … big improvement. Diaz … this is a guy two crappy franchises didn’t think enough of to keep.

There are plenty of cases that T.P. helped. Don’t blame him for Andruw’s low average or Francoeur’s impatience. He’s in Andruw’s ear all the time, trying and trying to get him to use the whole field, stay back on pitches, not flail and fall all over the box. Francoeur, they don’t want to force to curb his aggressiveness and ruin him. Slow process.

OK, I just answered at length when I said I woudn’t.

I’m gonna go appreciate my newly framed Man in Black pencil drawing. Outstanding. Gotta find a prominent place for it.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

Let’s go Mets!? Where, home. That is where they will be by this next week. Home for the offseason.

By Adam

October 2, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this

DOB: I was shocked to read that Corrales is stepping down - why? Isn’t he a very valuable piece of Bobby’s coaching staff?

By David O'Brien

October 2, 2006 07:45 PM | Link to this

Wait, ONE BIG OMISSION in the big free agents _ Daryle Ward, who told me yesterday that he’d love to come back to the Braves. He really liked it here, and the Braves really liked him. I think they’ll re-sign him, unless someone else blows them out of the water.

The guy was phenomenal as a pinch-hitter for the Braves after they got him, and he led the majors with 22 pinch-hits and 17 pinch-hit RBIs and tied for lead with four pinch homers. He went 8-for-14 with a homer and seven RBIs as a pinch-hitter for Braves.

By Robert

October 2, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

DOB - When does Donk’s current contract expire?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

Robert, stop it, dude! Give it up, alright!

DOB, approximately how much money will the Braves have to spend once all the “dead weight” is released and the contracts are all situated? Will they have any money to spend in free agency?

By David O'Brien

October 2, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

Adam, he’s getting older and had a lot of problems since his knee-replacement surgery two winters back. There’s absolutely no problems between him and Cox or anything like that, just a matter of team’s looking to bring some new blood in and Pat wants to pursue something else.

By Carolina Lady

October 2, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

Superior posts, DOB! Bouquets, kudos, and a big hug for everything this year! Looking forward to seeing what the off season brings and can’t wait for spring! I can’t help but feel that the Braves “to a man” are on a mission for next season and I have high hopes!

I’ll sure miss seeing Bobby Dews in the pen; I do love that dear man! Eddie will do well, without doubt, and I wish him well.

Tonight, without a Braves game, I feel a little lost! Withdrawal!! :-)) Looking forward to discussing the winter’s events with all the great folk here!

Thanks, David. You ARE the best!

By gotigers72

October 2, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this

I’m gonna miss Marcus if he goes. I’m a big Marcus fan. Gonna miss Corrales too. I caught him and Marcus in a hotel lobby in SF when I was on vacation and had my picture taken with them. Corrales wasn’t cranky at all. We talked for a few minutes about his playing career. He had the unfortunate job of being back up to Johnny Bench, just the best catcher ever. But he wasn’t so bad himself. Had a little pop in his bat.

I think the Braves will really miss Corrales. His defensive positioning was a huge help, and I know Bobby had a lot of respect for his knowledge. Good luck in whatever you do for the rest of your life to Pat and Bobby Dews and any other Brave [BJ] that doesn’t return next year.

By Patrick

October 2, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

Hey Dave,

I just wanted to take the time to write and say thanks for keeping us all update almost to the hour almost every day. I am fairly new to the blog and try and chip in with a comment or trade rumor here or there. But I think you do a fantastic job and I look forward to your blogs during the offseason!!

Great job!!! Keep it up!!!

By Robert

October 2, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

“Robert, stop it, dude! Give it up, alright!”

Dude, you dont like my posts, dont read them.

DOB said he believes in free speech.

Cox did achieve something he hadnt done in ten years tho - ending the season with a win.

That should be enough to have the party line adherents clamoring to reup his contract

By tim- braves lifer

October 2, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

DOB JUST WANTED TO SAY THANKS FOR KEEPING US ALL UP THE BRAVOS ALL YEAR. I ALSO APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME TO ANSWER ME WHEN I EMAILED YOU ABOUT THE BLOG.THAT WAS COOL! ITS NICE TO KNOW THERE ARE OTHER S OUT THERE AS PASSIONATE ABOUT THE BRAVES AS ME! HERES’ TO 2007!!!!!!!!!!!

By JERSEY GUY

October 2, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, There is only 1 player that will catapult us into first place next season- CARL CRAWFORD- LF TAMPA DEVIL RAYS- Carl’s signed thru 2008 and would give us a true star at the leadoff position. How’s this for a trade: Matt Diaz, Anthony Lerew, and Kyle Davies for Mr. Crawford. I would OVERPAY for this player. He’s a difference maker with a bad team— Imagine him on a contender like the Braves. From my lips to Mr. Scheurholz’s ears!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this

Robert, you are very entitled to your opinion. However, your constant bashing of Cox gets tiring and in a lot cases is simply unwarranted. Say whatever you want. You’re right. I don’t have to read the posts. But, man, I’m not alone in my feelings about your neverending Cox bashing.

By doc

October 2, 2006 08:25 PM | Link to this

dave one more thing that 99% will agree with, better than the great response to that poll last week of getting rid of andruw, i might add. great season for you, wish i had seen some of the same intensity and dedication from the bravos before the season and during it that you brought. complacency might have been the buzz word for some of the vets for this year.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

Jersey Guy, I would replace Davies with Horacio just because Horacio is a more proven commodity.

By Robert

October 2, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this

1) The Rays already had Diaz once. If they wanted to keep him they would have.

2) Most teams (Yes, even the Devil Rays) are looking to unLOAD starters with ERA’s north of 8 as opposed to trading their best player to aquire another one

3) Crawford is signed thru ‘08 at a bargain price. He is one of the few true big leaguers the Rays have. They arent gonna trade him for drick dreck and druck

By el bravo x

October 2, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

Dude, thank you! I meant, DOB, THANKS. You are doing what the maker made you for, congrats…

By Robert

October 2, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this

Not to sound harsh, but I could care less if people dont like my Cox bashing. If the truth hurts, tough.

Until that man is gone, the Braves cant win another World Series title.

Having Cox manage your baseball team is like spending $500 million dollars to build a new airport and then spending $14.32 at the flea market to buy a used 286 to run the air traffic control tower

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

Well, Robert,Diaz is a much better player than when the Rays had him for one thing. Another thing is the Rays need pitching. I agree that they won’t take Davies but Ramirez I think they will. I think Thorman and B. Pena could be options because the Rays need a 1B and a catcher. Just my opinion though.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 2, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

the blog goes on … this is good. thanks, dob, for all the enjoyment of the atlanta braves man in black blog. now, hudson again. this journalist hopes others are right and that hudson will correct his mechanics or whatever is wrong and will make a strong comeback in 2007. having said that, hudson is a veteran pitcher who had all season to figure out what is wrong and adjust. did he almost have it right in that last start and now won’t pitch again until march? jimmy smith hopes hudson makes it back but in all honesty he would be the third or fourth guy in the rotation -right now- for this journalist. smoltz is your ace. james is getting everybody out. you hope hampton comes back and pitches like an all-star. then, it is a crapshoot. journalist is also suffering from braves baseball withdrawal. this is sad. now, pie … we must talk more pie on this blog. thanksgiving soon.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

Robert, who would you have manage the team. Who is your ideal manager?

By Carolina Lady

October 2, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

Wish I could share with you the repast before me: the finest eastern Carolina BBQ, delicate-and-at-the-same-time-tangy cole slaw, hot fresh hush puppies, and a cold glass of milk. Oooooooh, yes!! :-)))

By JJMB

October 2, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this

Robert, I read your posts, and I agree with you. I like your writing style, and I admire your tenacity.

The Braves are like any bureaucracy. People reach comfort levels. People stake out territory. People defend territory.

Do you really think Cox will go peacefully? I doubt you do. Cox will be in Atlanta until he dies or decides to retire (which could be several more years - with the statin drugs available now).

Not that I wish BC an early death. I just wish he’d move on. Girardi?

By Salty55

October 2, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

CLady

You just did…(burp!)

:-)

By The Artist Formerly Known as Grinch

October 2, 2006 09:06 PM | Link to this

There is only one ideal managerial replacement: Yoda.

By Bobby Cox

October 2, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Robert is all that good a blogger. His posts are repetitive and nonsensical. He makes a good many grammatical errors and his spelling is suspect. I reckon he feels he can make better decisions in the dugout than are being made there now. Well, tell him to come on down next season and we’ll tie him to a rail right next to me and see what he can do. Personally, I think his shorts are too tight cutting off circulation to his tail. Now, wasn’t that a mature post!

By Carolina Lady

October 2, 2006 09:09 PM | Link to this

Hi, Salty! Hope you enjoyed it! :-))

Doesn’t it feel just plain awkward to not have a game on tonight??

By Lew

October 2, 2006 09:09 PM | Link to this

Hushpuppies. Oh yeah. I know I will sound bizarre here, but Robert, I agree with all your DRays points. I don’t see them giving up either Crawford or Kazmir for anything we might offer. I truly expect JS to pull off a typically Schuerholzian move this winter, though-something out of the blue like with Edgar last year, only bringing in a mid-rotation pitcher. After the Wickman deal, I’m hopeful he can pull it off for a combo involving B. Pena (a good prospect, but TOO good for a backup to McCann), Thorman, Salty or Escobar. I would really like to be able to keep Marcus, but apparently the consensus is that he will be traded. For pitching, I hope.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

Cox will be here as long as JS is here if not longer. Cox is too loved by his players. He isn’t liked. He’s loved. Cox is one of the best to ever manage no matter what some may think.

By fnreitsma

October 2, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

that one Robert guy is a real puff. get over the Cox bashing, already. focus it on more important issues… like how odd it would feel for the Maddux and Glavine to face-off in a game 5 or something in the NLDS.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 2, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

jjmb, journalist jimmy smith advocates hiring girardi if he comes available. he can be bench coach with corrales gone. he can be available when bobby cox retires. he has done a masterful job with the marlins. seems like he could add something good to this staff.

now, clary please. cole slaw on the side or on the barbecue? this is important information. barbecue from what establishment? or homemade? where is the red snapper for the sauce jimmy smith has prepared? grouper will be an acceptable substitute. refrigerate the sauce, right?

By Salty55

October 2, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this

CL: Yeah…no game really stinks…don’t like it.

By Lew

October 2, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

Now let’s cut Robert some slack on the BC thing. After all Robert has made a lot of money doing those Head On commercials. Head On-apply directly to the forehead. Head On-apply directly to the forehead. Head On-you get the point. Robert, you’re all right though. You know how to stick to your guns. I think I’ll go listen to some of that music that inspired the Man In Black Portrait. Some Night Ranger, Tull or maybe Mott The Hoople. (Calm down DOB-only joking.) Later y’all and do abide.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

I’m not saying Cox is without fault or shouldn’t be criticized. I have criticized him many times on here. But, its when its just unfounded totally biased bashing. You don’t win as many games as Cox has by accident. If you say he sucks as a postseason manager, I can’t disagree. To even say this team will never win the WS with Cox is asinine. Look at the “great” managers of the last 30 years. The only managers to win multiple titles were Torre, Gaston, and Lasorda.

By Yoda

October 2, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this

To Andruw: “Focus on your swing you must, or strikeout you will…”

By Salty55

October 2, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

Fellow Bloggers Let me throw a ‘twist’ into the mix…a proposed (partial) trade. Perception seems that Perez is a talented SS, and Elvis Andrus (is that right?) is a real up and comer, in a couple of years. In the interest of freeing cash yet with an eye on developing the two youngsters, how about this: Renteria for Visquel.

Visquel is a magician, even now, and would be an excellent mentor for Perez/Andrus for a year or so. The Giants are (very) old so Edgar helps ‘young ‘em up’. From what I’ve seen, Visquel would be about $2.5-3.0MM cheaper. I say ‘partial’ trade as I don’t know if you go straight up and free $$, or go for another player somewhere.

I’ll duck now!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

It seems strange that Girardi was Torre’s bench coach since its apparent Girardi is a control freak and hard line disciplinarian when Torre is the complete opposite. I mean look at Corrales. He is Cox’s shadow almost. Just strange. Anyway, Girardi is a good manger who will find a job immediately. I would almost bet the farm that he will manage the Cubs.

If Cox was to pull a shocker and step down (I know there is no chance of that happening), I would want to see either Scioscia, Guillen, or Baker manage the team. Dusty is a good manager who was in a impossible situation. In his defense he had his two best pithers constantly hurt. His star player was hurt the vast majority of this year along with those two best pitchers (Prior and Wood). And he had to deal with the Tribune Company, whom is actually worse than Time-Warner if you can believe it. The Cubs have been in the playoffs…what….three times in the last 30 years. Dusty Baker doesn’t have anything to do with that.

By Carolina Lady

October 2, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

jjs, point of clary: actually sorta both! I like the slaw ON the BBQ in a sandwich. On the side when not is a sandwich, but with hushpuppies. This is from Pender Farms and I love it! It just suits my ‘taster’ perfectly!

BTW, the 5th section of your latest 4-part series was excellent. I liked both of them!

Speaking of which: has anybody heard from 35 lately?? Hope he returns as he is an important part of the Braves-MIB blog!

(Ever tried to watch a TV program where they continually interupted showing the same commercial over and over and over? After a while you find the constant irritation overtaking any enjoyment you had gotten from the program itself. That is Cox bashing on this blog, IMHO.)

By JJMB

October 2, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith, as Dave reported, they’re probably going to promote from within. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Blauser in the dugout.

I like your idea better.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this

Salty, if either Andrus, Escobar, or even Pena are that close, I don’t think that would be that bad of an idea. Its a deal the Giants would listen to because they want to get younger. Very interesting to me.

By David O'Brien

October 2, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, I’m with you all the way to the … milk?

I gotta go sweet tea, co-cola, or beer there. Me, sweet tea.

Robert, welcome back. I’ve got absolutely no problem with any bashing, long as you keep it relatively clean, and you do.

My only thing is, it seems like such a waste of mental energy on your part. Again, I couldn’t care less if you want to bash him until the cows come home. But it’s sort of like, I don’t know, bashing Bobby Bowden, Joe Torre, Joe Paterno, Coach K (not that any Duke fan would have any reason to bash Coach K) … my point being, it’s not going to get them fired, and there’s not even been any consideration by the decision-makers to fire him. None whatsoever. So why go round and round and round about him? I think that’s all people are saying. Plenty of bloggers here don’t like Cox, but they also don’t spend more than half of their most _ being conservative in that estimate _ repeating the same stuff about him. I mean, we get it. We respect your opinion that he’s terrible and should be fired. Fine. No problem.

But now what? He’s simply not going to be fired, so now what? Is it constructive or something to keep going on about it? Again, please don’t think I’m getting on you, I’m just trying to understand if it just feels better for you to keep getting it off your chest, or do you think you’re going to change someone’s mind here? I get the feeling that arguing Cox is like arguing a couple of other things we’re not going to ever argue here _ politics and abortion.

The sides have their views, and they’re only going to become more entrenched the more you argue.

That said, feel free to carry on with the crusade. I’ll observe that one from the sidelines, though, until I see something or have something new to say on the subject.

Peace, and again, welcome back.

By ssiscribe

October 2, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

So … this is what a postseason without the Braves feels like.

And when I said I wanted to be 17 again, THIS is NOT what I meant!

Damn, I feel empty. I’m so pumped for the Thrashers (sorry, folks, I love football like the next guy raised in the South, but something about that hockey team just gets me going). But, there is NOTHING like baseball.

Feels like the world is spinning a little off its axis today. We’ll settle in, soon. Somebody asked me today who I like to win the World Series. I honestly don’t know, and I honestly don’t care.

I am rooting for the Cardinals, for the Wainwright guy from the SSI now pitching the ninth for the STL. Otherwise, eh, I’ll watch, but the emotional attachment just isn’t there.

Even after the Braves would be bounced, I’d watch the NLCS or World Series and think “what if.” Now, we don’t even have that.

But in the long run, this is going to be a great thing for the franchise. The guys played so hard this final week, and I think part of that is because they feel like they let themselves, the franchise and the fanbase down by being the first team since the 1990 squad to miss the postseason.

Just remember, every group has to serve its time, and maybe this year was just that, the prelude before the next great Braves dynasty rises to the top of baseball.

There’s a thought to keep you warm as the drop of the puck at Philips is 69 hours and a handful of minutes away.

The Scribe abides. Pass the BBQ and turn up the Man In Black.

—30—

By journalist jimmy smith

October 2, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

“p” player pena has a fast bat. if he can make more contact maybe he can be a real asset to this team. he is fast and has a good glove. this team was known for pitching and defense. the pitching has suffered. careful that the defense does not suffer. renteria is not as strong as furcal (in journalist’s humble opinion) and who, from the current players avaialble, can be as good as giles? would the braves change both ss and 2b? it sure will be fun seeing what js will do.

By Greg

October 2, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

I love the fact that McGuirk thinks the team is better off with a pauper budget rather than winning. Yeah, people showed up last weekend, which to McGuirk’s way of thinking means the team doesn’t need any money.

Listen carefully Braves management. Even if you raise the $80 million a few pennies, you stand no chance against the Mets. They will buy both Zito and Schmidt in the off season. Their budget will zoom to $120 or $150 million because they have to compete with the Yankees for the attention of New Yorkers.

Welcome to non-competitive Braves baseball. This is now a small market team. WTBS no longer shows the games. This is no longer America’s team. It’s might as well be on local cable access.

Sorry to be a downer. I’m a huge Braves fan. Have been since 1969.

There are dark days ahead. It will even get worse when Smoltz retires. Then our staff will be Hudson, Hampton, James, and two rookies. We need owners with deep pockets.

By Carolina Lady

October 2, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I know, DOB! But all the sweet tea was gone and I didn’t want to stop to make another batch. I’m with you on the Co-Cola, too - but beloved-daughter-of-mine had the last one of those! I finally resorted to a glass of milk before somebody took that, too! :-))

jjs, I sent the fish with Baby Seal. Neither arrived?? It isn’t a reach to figure out what happened to the fish, but where is Baby Seal?

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 2, 2006 10:11 PM | Link to this

DOB,

thanks for answering my question, despite saying that you wouldn’t. i’d also like to say that reading your blogs is one of the most insightful, entertaining things during the season, and i’m sure during the offseason as well. i’m really looking forward to reading your thoughts from the inside track.

any thoughts on dave roberts as leadoff/everyday left fielder?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

For what its worth, here is my postseason predictions.

In the ALDS: Twins over the A’s in five and Yankees over Tigers in four.

ALCS: Twins over the Yankees in six. The Yanks bullpen will rear its ugly head.

NLDS: Padres over Cardinals in four. Dodgers over Mets if five.

NLCS: Dodgers over Padres in seven.

WS: Twins over Dodgers in seven.

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

David O’B … Regarding your “If sale finalized, no cut in Braves’ payroll” piece … “Nice Terry McGuirk said there would be no reduction in player payroll, nor any other noticeable changes in the way the team is run”

I’m sure he said it … but, I’m confused. How can management speak for the new ownership when they don’t know what action that ownership will take once they assume control … and if indeed the current management will remain in place or have a voice in such matters?

At least those are the questions that I pondered when I read it … I’ve heard of Golden Parachutes but that sounds like pure grade Platinum to me.

If you tire of that “pencil drawing”, I’ll trade you a very old receipe for Brunswick Stew, some empty Coke cans and 2 corrupt harddrives for it.

I’m already feeling the effect of season’s end … I couldn’t use the game as grounds for not helping with supper tonight.

Later …

By supa

October 2, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for a wonderful job covering the Braves…and for telling it like it is. It was always a pleasure reading your articles.

I’ll keep up with you in the off-season and will be counting the days til opening day.

By Salty55

October 2, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

R(JITB): Interesting WS picks…’65 all over again…but with no ‘Koufax’ for LA, Twins should get the nod.

By David O'Brien

October 2, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

Just to clary, I meant to say “half of their posts” and not “half of their most.”

This new show, “Studio 60” on NBC, is really, really good.

Greg, payroll argument gets a bit more tired every year the Twins and their $52 mill payroll return to the playoffs (over the White Sox with their $105 mill payroll), and when Oakland ($62 mill) goes back every year (this time over Angels, $105 mill), and when Marlins finish one game behind Braves with a $15 mill payroll, and Boston ($125 mill) collapses and doesn’t even get close to winning the wild card…

By David O'Brien

October 2, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

Bob, because as I explained in the story, McGuirk is staying on as president, and he’s been working closely with the Liberty people, going over everything so there’s a seamless transition when sale is finalized. What part of that is confusing? He’s president now, will stay president if Time Warner keeps team and, and will stay president if Liberty buys the team. They’ve told him, assured him, guaranteed him, payroll is staying at $80 mill. That was only way he wanted to be part of it, if everything including payroll and front office, etc, stayed intact.

By David O'Brien

October 2, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

Just rearead your post again and I’m totally confused as to why you’re confused. You write:

“’m sure he said it … but, I’m confused. How can management speak for the new ownership when they don’t know what action that ownership will take once they assume control … and if indeed the current management will remain in place or have a voice in such matters?”

BECAUSE NEW OWNERSHIP IS KEEPING HIM AS PRESIDENT AND HAS TOLD HIM THAT IT’S KEEPING PAYROLL AT $80 MILL AND FRONT OFFICE MANAGEMENT TEAM IN PLACE.

At least those are the questions that I pondered when I read it … I’ve heard of Golden Parachutes but that sounds like pure grade Platinum to me.

WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH GOLDEN PARACHUTES? HE’S NOT RETIRING. HE’S STAYING WITH THE TEAM AS PRESIDENT. IT’S AN $80 MILL PAYROLL, NOT AN $80 MILL SEVERENCE PACKAGE. AGAIN, I’M CONFUSED AS TO WHAT DOTS YOU’RE CONNECTING.

By Kentavo

October 2, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

We need real starting pitching (besides Smoltz).

Hampton, when healthy, at least is mentally tough, unlike Hudson.

By Tony Almeida

October 2, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

“You can break this game down all you want, but bottom line is they got a Hall of Fame pitcher on the mound, and the best lineup in the National League and we got beat 3-1,” Berkman said. “It was a good ballgame.”

By Alan

October 2, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this

Great job all year, DOB. It’s been fun, even with the Braves’ tough year. They ended on a high note, though, and winning their final game of the season was a welcome treat! The off-season should be fun, too. I can hardly wait for the “Hot Stove League” to heat up. For now, though, I’m really going to enjoy the post-season, as an “impartial observer.” I can hardly wait for Game 2 of Dodgers-Mets and Maddux vs. Glavine. I’ll bet it’s a low-scoring beauty, just like the good old days. Go, Braves!

By Dave knockahomer

October 2, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

thanks, DOB! great stuff all year long! If the guys could pitch as well as you write, we’d be in the playoffs and then win the World Series! Am looking forward to the off season and to see what goes down, up and or whatever! But already looking forward to Spring Training! If we can get a starter or two worth their salt, a good lead off guy, and maybe a more dependable middle reliever…..well! hey! # 15 after all!

GO BRAVES!

By Salty55

October 2, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this

CL Ya see…if only you’d had some sweet tea for DOB…he’s clearly upset and shouting now! :-0

By Drummerdad

October 2, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, Great blog. You own your job and it’s easy to see. I think we all really appreciate the way you are in here with us and giving us the facts when conjecture is running rampant. As a pastor friend once told me, there’s nothing that refutes an opinion so quickly as a fact. ALSO, thanks very much for your piece on Chipper. I have voiced some opinions about dealing with his situation. Bottom Line: Chipper is a Brave, end of story.
I thought this course correction for the team should have happened last year when all the rooks came up. But they overachieved while running on all that adrenaline and took another title before the Mets got going.
I think Langerhans will have a better year next year wherever he is. He made an absolutely beautiful catch while subbing for Andruw the other night in center. And speaking of Andruw, he told Mark Bowman over on the team website that he will be a Brave in ‘08. The next few months will be fun to watch.

By Carolina Lady

October 2, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

I know, Salty. I’m sorry!! I rarely allow the sweet tea pitcher to be empty but I guess I just got lazy tonight. Nooooo excuse, is there?! :-))

By Adam

October 2, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

DOB: Thanks for the update on Corrales. I hate to see him go, but can certainly understand his reasoning. I’ve enjoyed your blog all season, Dave. Thanks for always keeping us fans updated and entertained!

By David O'Brien

October 2, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

Thanks, drummerdad. Andruw said the same thing yesterday when a couple other of us asked him. But again, I’d just caution that if Braves get a huge offer for him this winter and don’t have some assurances that he’ll be signable, they would likely approach him and he told me he wouldn’t want to stay if the Braves expressed to him that they want to trade him.

For his sake, since he wants to stay, I hope that he’ll again go to Schuerholz and tell him what he’ll sign for, or at least tell Scott Boras not to be hard-line in the talks, because if Braves think it’ll take $17 mill a year or so to sign him, I can’t see how they can justify spending that great a percentage of their payroll on one player, especially with the commitments coming on Hudson after next year.

I just don’t have a good read on Andruw one way or another, and I don’t think anyone really knows at this point.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 2, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

nothing like some tangy barbecue and a big glass of buttermilk. this is like milk with key lime pie. the two do not go together. carolina lady now confesses to being out of sweet tea and co’cola so we must cut her some slack. now, hush puppies are not readily found at bbq places in atlanta. seafood places, yes. is this a n.carolina thing? carolina lady, was the red snapper sealed in an airtight container and marked “tobacco products not for seal consumption”? if not, the snapper may be lost.

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this

David, sorry for the confusion that my confusion caused … while I suspected as much, I just didn’t realize that the deal had been finalized and that there was new ownership that could make such promises.

The Golden Parachutes with which I’m familiar certainly relate to severance but have always been in the nature of contractural contingencies, as I assume most, if not all, are … (i.e. “if you were to be terminated under these circumstances … then this is what will happen … and you will receive this …”) and were commonly associated with potential buyouts, takeovers, and business unit shutdowns.

All I was trying to say was that I never heard of one that guaranteed members of the management team that they would continue to have such a strong voice in the management of the company as to be able to speak for the new ownership, even before there was new ownership … in my view, to have such a deal would be much better than golden … so I called it Platinum.

Without such a contractual deal, regardless of what it might be called, I couldn’t understand how the statements could have been made.

I guess I made the mistake of not reading close enough to realize that there was new ownership in place … I have no idea how or why I missed it.

By TennesseePaul

October 2, 2006 11:15 PM | Link to this

DOB: Has there been any rumor or whisper that the Braves will offer Smoltz another multi year deal? I know they have him on an option already. I figured they would have waited until the offseason and, instead of simply exercising the option, offer another contract to cover next year and the year after. Maybe it’s just me and wishful thinking though. But, from what I’ve seen of him this season, he still seems a few years away from being “washed up”. And, with a full year of a bullpen and the way Smoltz has been throwing, he could be a 20 game winner again for real. He would have been the last two seasons had it not been for the pen.

By rainman

October 2, 2006 11:16 PM | Link to this

The best thing we can do is something i hate to say. We have to trade hudson. THis would open up money for a leadoff hitter the only big hole on the team. My pick would be dave roberts. He plays left field speed and gets on base 35 to 37 % of the time.

By Salty55

October 2, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

DOB…or anyone that understands contracts (as related to baseball legality). Can a contract be written with a ‘trade’ provision; e.g, (example purposes only…don’t bash the #’s!): Andruw gets $70MM for four years, but $12MM is deferred (pick a number of years). For the Braves, it amounts to $14.5MM/year. If the Braves trade him, the deferred comes forward over the balance of the contract. While the Braves would be expected to pay some of his salary in a trade, it would be a net reduction in salary, while maintaining some semblance of ‘home town’ discount while he’s here. Make any sense…if not, I’ll try again.

My take is Andruw wants market protection if he leaves, a legit concern, but wants to remain a Brave even more. Dave, you know him better than any of us, but is it a valid read of him?

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this

Salty55, I sometimes have that effect on David … it was totally unintentional, I assure you!

I think my offer to trade for his “Man In Black” may have upset him … just kidding as I’m sure he knows it was intended as a real compliment to Lew’s work.

By Salty55

October 2, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this

*Bob The advantage we have over David is its his blog, thus he has to respond (begrudgingly many times, I imagine) to some the inane crap the rest of us ignore. After a while, even the good ‘players’ get hit with collateral damage! He has more patience than I do, tea or no tea, I assure you!

By Drummerdad

October 2, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this

You know, I’ve watched this team since they came to Atlanta. Saw Henry hit one out against the Mets that year. I was 11. Joe Torre was on that team as well as Eddie Matthews, Clete Boyer, Felippe Alou, Rico Carty and Ted Abernathy who died last year. There was an excitement about a professional sports franchise coming to the south. But with the exception of 2 years (‘69 & ‘82) it’s was 25 years of mediocrity, disappointment, and Ernie Johnson trying to figure what to say next. The lack of World Series victories is trying, but John Schuerholz and Bobby Cox have brought the south a respectability in pro sports that’s never been achieved anywhere else. If you haven’t cecked out Steve Phillips video commentary over on the ESPN baseball website it’s worth the watch. I’m grateful. Carolina Lady, I live down the coast from you, but over in New Ellenton, SC (near Aiken) there’s a little hole in the road called the Carolina BBQ. open Thursday thru Saturday. Worth the visit if you’re in that neck of the woods.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 2, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this

I think when Andruw says he wants to stay a Brave he is being sincere. However, if he knows that a team will offer him at least $17 when the Braves would be stretching to offer him $15 is he going to stay. That is my fear. Especially if its an American League team where he can split time between centerfield and DH and save wear and tear on his shoulders and knees. That is why I say make him sign an extension now. Because if he is reluctant to do so, then that should tell you that he is wanting to test the market. Just like last offseason when Paul Korenerko told the White Sox he wanted to stay but he tested the market. The only reason he stayed in Chicago is because the Angels offer to him was virtually the same as the White Sox. However, I wonder if that would have held true if the Mets hadn’t traded for Delgado. The Mets would have surely offered more than the Angels did.

By Salty55

October 2, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this

Tony Almeida Your 10:39 post on Berkman…very interesting. Could it be teams already see what the Braves will bring to the post next year, and beyond? That’s a strong comment he made, IMO.

By Tomahawkin

October 3, 2006 12:28 AM | Link to this

Gawd I just Hope Shytty Tyler Yates and Reeksma aren’t back those 2 turds are why we missed the wildcard, among others, And why da phyuck does Chipper even play when we are well out of the race…Dat really pi-s-ses me off….

D.O.B. Thanks 4 a good season of blogging, and ur witty little insights, especially when Ur on da road, you almost seem like a commentator at times. As a matter of fact I’d Like to see you on TBS instead of dat Marc Fein fool.Thanx Dawg… you officially made the AJC The Website of Dem Braves!!!

By Bob, journalist

October 3, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this

Salty55,

Well said! David’s participation makes this Blog extra special.

By Tomahawkin

October 3, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this

Grinch Where U at… R U as pi-s-s-ed off as I am about how the way we went out…? And yet people still show up to the games… I was really hoping we would only draw 50,000 for the weekend series, but I was disappointed…

Its just good we have Sticky Wickman next year, lets send Reeksma to The Cards 4 Wainwright, Like dat will happen…

I dunno know about you guys, but I like that Nook Logan cat from the Nationals, He could play left and leadoff next year…

By Head Coach

October 3, 2006 12:56 AM | Link to this

Thank you DOB ! my friend you have made the daily lives of many Braves fans(and a few Mets too) much more lively. I’m both sad and relieved to see this season end. As they say , adversity builds character and we are going to have a very hungry invigorated bunch of ballplayers in 2007. On the subject of Andruw Jones , he will be back and I am all but certain of it. Trading him would be career suicide for John Schuerholz because you just dont trade hall of famers in the prime of their careers. loosing him in free agency my be unavoidable , but the braves still have an obligation to try and win next season and they would be hard pressed to win without Andruw. I’ll give you some perspective on Andruw Jones. He is 29 and has 342 homeruns. Willie Mays at 29 had 279 homeruns and then hit 381 more after the age of 30. Hudson will be back , that I can guarantee. His 35 starts , 218 innings and 13 wins is irreplaceable. Ditto for Smoltz. Chipper has bad wheels and a big contract and the Braves are stuck with him and they will just have to try and hope he can play 130 or more games each of the next two seasons. Giles is all but history and I hate to see him go. I said it before and I’ll say it one more time , JS has roughly 9 to 10 million to spend , plenty of prospects to horsetrade with and no major free agent contracts within the Braves. He is in the drivers seat and is going to be a very busy man this winter. GO BRAVES in 2007 !!!!

By Brandon

October 3, 2006 01:13 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Any reason given for the Corales stepdown? He has been by Bobby’s side for so long!

By Tomahawkin

October 3, 2006 01:43 AM | Link to this

Aight D.O.B. I went back to reading the old blogs…and You said that you are too old 4 R. Kelly, That was funny as hell…The good R&B dates back to before the millenium…Not that New Chris Brown Pop Tart Crap, that those Teenyboppers listen to on Those crap Networks BET and MTV, I’m talking about Some old Brian McKnight, TLC, and Blackstreet, among others who didn’t get the accolades in da 90’s. I can’t Stand this new Pop-Tart Crap, like Cassie, And Rhihanna, these dumb kids don’t know that these new one hit wonder-artists, can’t touch cats like Aaliyah, and Some Old Boyz To Men, Now dat junk go hard, women love dat shyt…

Grinch, I like that little Jokey Joke about R. Kelly, Just like Michael Jackson, I could care less what he does in his personal time…I think the Media just gets off about bringing them two down…

By the Way Its almost time 4 the Holloween Parties, It’s not holloween Unless you listen to Thriller

By Tomahawkin

October 3, 2006 01:52 AM | Link to this

Ok I’m out, Gonna get up and watch the game at da metrodome, and some loud fans wit those homer-hankees…

I’m 4 anyone winning but the Mutts and WhineBrenner and da yankees, I know ESPN, as well As Joe Buck and Tim McCarver are gonna have lovefests wit them 2 teams, so I’m giving everyone (the 2 people who are on here) fair warning….

By The Green One

October 3, 2006 03:43 AM | Link to this

Glad to know you’re still kickin’, T’Hawk; I haven’t dissapeared all the way yet. I just had to laugh though when you said R&B “Goes all the way back to the millenium and even before.” Classic. You really want to impress the ladies, break out some Al Green or Marvin Gaye (dudes from the SEVENTIES!); them boys knew the proper groove for some lovin’. As for the playoffs, I doubt I’ll even be watching most of it. I’d like to see the title with the NL, but not at the expense of having to listen to Mets fans thump their chests for the next decade (good thing they won’t even make it there, most likely). Bob, I think you’re right. Though undoubtedly Liberty has told Terry what they told him (else Dave wouldn’t have reported it); I don’t believe the sale is a done deal and I’ve heard rumors there’s a potential sticking point involving the IRS that may undo it (though not likely). Night, All.

By Calvin

October 3, 2006 03:54 AM | Link to this

Mr. OBriend,

I honestly think Andruw will do something like he did in 01 and somehow find a way to stay in Atlanta. He just has it too good here being the gold glove power hitting stud that he is. Having said that, I would not be surprised one bit if he bolted for greener pasters after next season. After all, A-Rod said the samething when he was a free agent in 2000 and was either gonna return to Seattle or sign with the Braves(which most people do not know that the Braves had the largest offer out there until…) until Tom Hicks gave out that silly 10 year 255 mill contract. I don’t see that happening with Andruw but I do see him making anywhere from 14-19 mil. I just think his loyalty will win out over wanting more money especially because of his fondness for Bobby and the city of Atlanta.

I think you said something about Luis Gonzalez(or heard it on a TBS broadcast) and his interest in coming to Altanta to play LF. He is up there in age but he did just have a 50 double season and I think he would be a good no 5 or 6 hitter behind either Frenchy or Andruw.

By Jesse

October 3, 2006 04:24 AM | Link to this

Js this is a make or break offseason. Schmidt,crawford,marlon anderson(nice addition for that bench) and trade for a setup man.The article said no budget cuts so mangement has no excuses this offseason.

By David -ATL

October 3, 2006 04:48 AM | Link to this

Kudos to DOB! Job Well Done.

By Jeff

October 3, 2006 06:13 AM | Link to this

It’s better than nothing that the Braves’ will maintain the team’s $80 million dollar payroll, might even tick it up a little. But money does count in the game. The Mets spending $20 million more a season than the Braves has already had an impact, and will continue to do so in snagging better free agents or in retaining vets. Note that the Braves started to slide since payroll was reduced.

Sure, teams have to spend money wisely, not throw good dollars after bad. And when others cite the Marlins as a team doing a lot more on far less money, I say, wait. There’s a reason why the Marlins had a fire sale last year: the team can’t afford to keep its six-year players. It’ll happen again to them, unless there is a change in ownership or ownership loosens its purse strings.

For a market Atlanta’s size, along with its regional reach, $80 million underfunds the team. The Braves need a bigger payroll commitment from Liberty Media. It will be an investment well worth it when, as expected, Liberty Media flips the team in a couple of seasons.

By Greg

October 3, 2006 07:18 AM | Link to this

DOB:

Great job. I really enjoy reading your blogs. But the only reason the Twins, As, and Marlins are so good with such low payrolls is that they trade all of their good players for prospects and they prospects turn out to be great. Hanly Ramirez, Johan Santana, Francisco Liriano.

Other than McCann (Yes, I like Frenchy’s fire, but the kid needs a brain so he’ll stop swinging at anything between first and third.) I don’t see this kind of overwhelming young talent in the Braves organization. I don’t see any power arms. We still only have one power pitcher in the rotation and that’s Smoltz.

If we are going to compete with the Mets, we need to buy a power pitcher, and we don’t have the budget for it. Finesse will only take you so far. And as we proved throughout the ’90s, it’s very unreliable in October. That’s been the difference between the Marlins and Braves in the playoffs. The Marlins, twice in, two rings. Braves 14 times in, one ring.

As for the Twins and the As low payrolls. I predict the Yankees will walk all over them. I mean, Cano batting 9th. That’s obscene. Payroll may not guarantee victory, but it sure gives you a lot of options.

$80 million gives us none. Andruw is gone. If we’re in contention next year, we won’t be able to deal him for prospects. And when Smoltz retires in one or two years, what will our mid-level budget buy us to replace him? Another John Thompson finesse guy. THat’s what.

If the Braves want to repeat in the long run, then management has to raise the budget. $80 million will buy exactly what it did this year, an also-ran team with major holes. Yes, we now have a closer. So that hole is fixed. But we still need speed. Setup men. And another veteran power pitcher for the rotation. Trading Giles is not going to bring us all of that. We’ll be lucky if it brings us a setup man. We need Schmidt, or somebody like him. We need Crawford or Soriano, or somebody like them. And we need a patient contact hitter who won’t strike out every at bat.

Payroll doesn’t guarantee wins, but it sure gives you a better chance to win when you can afford to add key players to your lineup and rotation.

I ask you this, DOB, what will the Braves counter with when the Mets raise their budget $25 million or even $50 million and sign Soriano and Schmidt (or Zito)?

You know they will. They have to. They don’t compete with us. They compete with the Yankees, and Lord only knows what Stein and Cashman will do to improve their team for next year.

By tyyosh

October 3, 2006 08:15 AM | Link to this

DOB, I echo the heartfelt appreciation of others for your extra effort on this blog. This one is by far the best one on this site in terms of quality of info, interaction, and with only a few exceptions, the quality of discussion.

One thing that I do not recall seeing yet regarding Andruw is this: If the Braves sign him to a mega-contract of more than say 4 years but cannot raise payroll in the next 3-4 years, then they may be unable to keep Laroche (3 years from FA), Francouer, and McCann as they get into the big arbitration and then FA dollars and still have any money left for the rest of the team. If those guys are the heart of the next-gen team, then it would seem like the big contracts need to be going away by 2009-10 or so.

By Robert

October 3, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

“You don’t win as many games as Cox has by accident.”

It wasnt accident. It was Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and company

“Robert, who would you have manage the team. Who is your ideal manager?”

Ideal? Leyland or Herzog come to mind.

Who would be an improvement?

Anything eukaryotic, diploid, and not named Bobby Cox.

By journalist stinky

October 3, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

journalist asks question: how long has 80 million dollar salary cap been in place for braves? 5 years?

if journalist assumes very conservative rate of inflation of 2.5% over last 5 years, then for the braves to get the same market value of talent, they would have to have a cap of 90.5 million.

braves have effectively lost a player somewhere.

By KC

October 3, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this

I was adding up the Braves payroll for next year (based on current roster), and the figure I’m coming up with is 85 million. Does anyone figure it any differently? Here’s how it looks:

Rotation: Smoltz–8.0, Hudson–6.0, Hampton–12.5, Ramirez-3.5(estimated salary after arbitration), James-0.4 Total: 30.5 million

Bullpen: Wickman-6.5, Villareal-0.8(estimated after arbitration), everyone else-0.4 Total: 9.3

Infield: Laroche-2.8(estimated after arbitration), Giles-5.3(estimated after arbitration), Renteria-9.0, C.Jones-11.0, Orr-0.4, Aybar-0.4, Ward-1.3(I’m guessing that he’ll resign for something in this neighborhood), McCann-0.4, Brian Pena-0.4 Total: 31.0

Outfield: A.Jones-13.0, Francoeur-0.4, Langerhanz-0.4, Diaz-0.4 Total: 14.2

TOTAL FOR ALL: 85 million

Terry McGuirk eluded to the possibility of the Braves being able to “squeeze out a few more dollars”. The Braves did get about 7 million from an insurance policy on Hampton this year, and Boston paid all of Renteria’s salary in 06 from what I understand, so maybe they’ve set some of that money aside to spend a little more this season. If that’s the case, and they’re committed to spend only 80… then the writing is certainly on the wall for Marcus Giles.

By KC

October 3, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

Meant to say… “If that’s not the case…”

By Shaun

October 3, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

How about Smoltz for the Cy Young. I know it will probably go to Oswalt, Carpenter or Webb, but Smoltz is right up there.

By KC

October 3, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

Shaun… Yeah, I think it’s going to go to Webb, and deservedly so.

By KC

October 3, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

I should note that in my previous post, I omitted Biaz because it is extremely doubtful that he’ll be back. Too expensive and he wants to close.

By Lew

October 3, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

KC-The Braves have maintained all along that they are paying Hampton $8million per year, every year he’s been here, to avoid the backloaded jump in salary. So right off the bat you’re figures are off by $4.5 million. Giles will only get a raise to $5, if that much. He did not have that great a season and most think he will be gone anyway. I also don’t see Ramirez making $3.5 million in arbitration. The Braves will win that one, for sure. Renteria is making $6 from the Braves, the rest from the Red Sox. That’s another $2 million less. I think we will have about $7.5 million more than you think we will.

By Voice of Reason

October 3, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

As to the reference that Bobby Cox somehow has lucked his way through 25 years of managing, I thought I’d throw out a few numbers (imagine that) to put his “luck” in perspective with the “skill” of other managers. And for Robert, I’ll even throw Whitey Herzog’s record in the mix…

Cox: Regular Season, 2171 W’s/1685 L’s; Post-Season, 66/66; World Championships 1

Leyland: RS 1164/1198; PS 19/17; WC 1

Herzog: RS 1281/1125; PS 26/25; WC 1

Torre: RS 1973/1701; PS 74/41; WC 4

LaRussa: RS 2296/1986; PS 48/43; WC 1

Baker: RS 1162/1040; PS 17/19; WC 0

Alou: RS 1032/1021; PS 1/3; WC 0

Robinson: RS 1065/1175; PS 0/0; WC 0

Hmmm… It seems that only Joe Torre has more than 1 World Championship. But, then again, by Robert’s logic, that has to be luck. After all, look at all of the HOF’ers that he trotted out onto the field. Rivera..? Man that’s lucky. Jeter..? Very lucky. Johnson, Clemens, O’Neal, A-Rod, Williams, Boggs, Martinez… Should I go on?

Bobby Cox has earned his way into the HOF and earned the respect of his peers whether fans like Robert or myself approve or not. Hey, if it’s luck, I’ll take some of that.

Pie and sweet tea to all!

By KC

October 3, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

Lew,

I haven’t heard that about Hampton, but I’ll take your word for it. Do you think the front office means that effectively they are paying Hampton 8 mill a year, or that they have literally set aside money to pay him out in that manner? The only reason it’s hard for me to see that is because the Braves have a history of back loading deals and contracts so that they can spend more up front. If they were just going to set the extra money aside and save it for later, what was the point of negotiating the transaction in such a way that the Braves didn’t have to pay much of anything in Hampton’s first few years here? Also, the fact that the Braves arranged the deal so that the Rockies are still paying 2 million a season in the last few years of the deal makes sense because 12 million or so seems to be the cap the Braves are comfortable paying to a pitcher. I just have a hard time digesting the “8 million a year” in a literal sense.

I may have slightly overestimated HoRam’s and Giles’ arbitration awards (should they both stay), but if so, it’s not by much. Giles will earn at least 5 million next season and Ramirez will earn at least 3 mil.

As for Renteria, my previous understanding was also that the Braves were paying 6 million of his salary and that Boston was covering the rest. However, I just read somewhere that Boston simply paid all 8 mill or Renteria’s contract in 06. If true, that would mean that ATL is responsible for all of Renteria’s reaming contract. The info on this site is usually fairly accurate, but they could be off on this one. You can check it out if you like: http://www.mlb4u.com/teamcontract.php?team=Atlanta%20Braves

I hope you’re correct and that the Braves have a little more money in their pocket. If in fact they do still have 6-7 million to spend, they could conceivably move Giles, clear up another 5 mill, and make a bid for a top-tier free agent. That’d be nice to see.

By Matthew

October 3, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

Stinky:

You bring up an excellent point about the rise in inflation. As long as the payroll remains stuck at $80 million, the Braves will continue to fall behind the Mutts in terms of financial resources (1) because of inflation and (2) because the Mutts will continue to increase their payroll to keep the attention on NY fans.

The Braves are looking good for 2007 in my estimation, but (if the Libety sale goes through) they may be in for a couple of low payroll years. If it is true that Liberty plans to sell the franchise again in two years (Arthur Blank, please?) then we may finally see a return to dominance.

I for one hope that next year, with the addition of an Ervin Santana-type pitcher (we’re not getting Zito or Schmidt, they’re too expensive) and a leadoff hitter (Nook Logan was an excellent suggestion-young, cheap, and the Braves have a connection to the Nats’ front office) the Braves will start another streak, of World Series titles. Beyond those two moves, trading Giles I think is a forgone, albeit unfortunate, conclusion. The Braves have too many middle infield prospects with tremendous upside (Prado, Pena, Escobar, Andrus, etc.) and could use Marcus in a package with Salty or B Pena to get the starter we need. It’s not a perfect plan, I realize, but it does loosen the logjam at middle infield immediately behind Giles, as well as attaining a quality starter in case Hudson collapses or Hampton doesn’t rebound the way we expect. Just my humble opinion.

Looking forward to a VERY interesting offseason!

By Not-A-Blogger

October 3, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

David —

Let me add my thanks for all you efforts in conducting a most excellent blog, as well as your first-rate baseball reportage.

I don’t post much, but from reading here almost daily, feel that I know a bunch of these erudite and energetic Bravo fans personally. Someone should compile J. Jimmy Smith’s posts into a book!

For next year, I really hope we keep Marcus and put him back in the two-hole, where he produced well when given limited chances in ‘06.

By KC

October 3, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

Matthew:

“use Marcus in a package with Salty or B Pena to get the starter we need”

What starter do we need?

We’ve got a rotation right now of Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Ramirez, and James (with Davies and Cormier waiting in the wings).

As you mentioned, we’re probably not going to get Schmidt or Zito, so who are we going to get that would be an upgrade on any of those pitchers?

By Lew

October 3, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

KC-As to the Hampton salary-DOB has stated several times on the blog that the Braves had chosen to do the $8mil per year payments to avoid the backloaded hugeness issue. They have told David this repeatedly from all of his accounts. The Red Sox had agreed to pay $2 mil per year for three years, so I don’t see them paying $8million in one chunk. They would have overpaid by $2mil. Another way to look at things is this-Attrition of the deadwood, Thomson, etc. should free up $12.5 million. Add $3million to that for Smoltz’s 07 decrease and you have $15.5 million. Wicky just got $6.5 of that, leaving $9mil. With Roachy’s Giles and Ramirez’s raises in arbitration, we should still have about $5million, which is a good starting point. I will hate to see Marcus go for many reasons, but I fear all are correct when they speak of the writing being on the wall. $10 million will be plenty to bring in another starter and a setup man, as well as a RH pinch hitter and Ward. Keep in mind what I’ve been saying about a Schuerhlozian deal, also (something like Edgar last year, only a pitcher). We will be fine. As far as the Mets, do you think they can make it with this year’s pitching staff? Without Pedro? They will have to come up with 2 or 3 good pitchers to match our staff next year. Spending a lot of money has not proven effective for the Mets until this year. They will have to spend a fortune to get the pitching they need. That’s going to be a huge sum even for them. We will, at the very least, be competitive with them.

By Lew

October 3, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

If Liberty purchases the team, utilizing all of these huge tax breaks, they CAN’T sell the team in 2 years.

By Rodger

October 3, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

Everyone have a pleasant offseason-see y’all in February? Check in occasionally.

DOB-thanks for your insights, updates, humor, etc! Keep up the good work-and have some great pies over the holidays!

By Voice of Reason

October 3, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Matthew: As DOB has chronicled numerous times on this blog, including this one, payroll does not equal dominence. One only has to look to Boston or Minnesota for examples. Los Bravos can absolutely be back in the playoff mix with their current payroll of +/- $80M as long as the resources are used wisely.

Offense: ATL had the NL’s 3rd best offense in 2006 despite the ineffectiveness of Giles at the 1 spot, despite the impatience of 22 year old Frenchy and despite the early season sputtering of guys like LaRoche and Langerhans. Look for a better fit at leadoff in 2007 for equal or less $$$.

Bullpen: Horse repeatedly beaten beyond death. Wicky signed for 2007. Improvement already.

Starting pitching: Herein lies the linchpin for 2007 success. JS must find a solid, inning eating 10-15 win veteran starter either through FA or trade to spend Gilly’s money on. Rotation: HOF Smoltz/ hopefully more consistent Hudson/ hopefully healthy Hampton/ sophomore James/ newly acquired veteran. Alot depends on the health of some of these guys. And what about HoRam? A young lefty can bring alot in return on the trade market. Look for Davies in long relief… not a bad thing, really.

Honestly, is there any rational reason not to expect Los Bravos to return to October baseball next year?

By KC

October 3, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

LEW:

Good info on the salary stuff. I hope you’re absolutely correct. You probably are. It’s nice to think that the Braves might actually have some dough in their pockets this winter. If your understanding is correct on all counts, then after they move Giles they’ll have 10-12 million to spend.

When you talk about the Braves getting a starter, who would the newly acquired starter replace??? Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Ramirez, James… that already looks pretty good to me.

By Greg

October 3, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

Lew:

The Mets have Maine and Pelfry. They will sign Glavine. They will probably add Zito or Schmidt (or both). Pedro may return. I love my Braves, but that staff beats the crap out of Smoltz, Hudson (unless he somehow finds himself), Hampton (injury prone), James (looks good), Davies (jury is still out), and Ho Ram (flyball pitcher with finesse stuff and not enough brains to figure it out). We absolutely need a power pitcher to compete.

As for the lineup, speed is a must. And Pendleton needs to fine Frenchy every time he swings at a pitch six feet outside and in the dirt. Take a damn walk, kid. You’ll help the club. In fact, every Braves hitter needs to study the Yankees. They are a pitcher’s nightmare not only because they know how to hit but also because they know how to be patient. Free swinging and bad relief pitching are the primary reason Atlanta has only one WS ring.

By Shaun

October 3, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

Here’s an article by FOX Sports’ Dayn Perry about payroll efficiency:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6014352

I wouldn’t recommend running a team like the Marlins (although I’m not a business man) but this article points out that the 2006 Marlins were the most efficient team, in terms of payroll and wins, over the last 30 years.

The Braves ranked 5th from the bottom.

As the article points out, although important, payroll efficiency is not everything. Only two teams that ranked in the top 10 made the playoffs. And only two teams in the bottom 10 made the playoffs.

Most playoff teams are in the middle of the pack in payroll efficiency, which makes sense. If you spend carelessly, it usually limits flexibility. If you don’t take some spending risks, you decrease your chances.

Still, Oakland and Minnesota are the standard-barers. They’ve been more wise with their resources than most teams for at least four or five years now.

By KC

October 3, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Lew:

I’m pretty sure I heard that Liberty would have to hold that asset (the Braves) for a reasonable period (generally thought to be 2-4 years) in order to keep their tax breaks. After that period, they will be free to sell the Braves which they may or may not be interested in doing.

Everyone assumes that Liberty will be looking to unload the Braves as soon as they are able, but that’s no foregone conclusion. While baseball teams generally don’t turn a huge profit, franchises like the Braves tend to appreciate quite nicely each year. But if they do decide to sell in a few years… ya wanna go halfy’s?

By Georgetown Kid

October 3, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

Thanks for everything this year, Mr. O’Brien. Your efforts made this season much more fun than it would have been otherwise.

This offseason will certainly be interesting, as there are so many different courses of action that the Braves would pursue.

Mr. O’Brien, regarding Giles, I hope you are wrong about the Braves trading him. He is one of my favorite players, but more importantly, I don’t think Prado, Pena, or Aybar are ready to be full-time starters. The Braves need one more season to develop their middle-infield prospects.

By Kramer

October 3, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

DOB, anybody, where is Pat Corrales going?

By KC

October 3, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

Voice Or Reason:

While payroll does matter, I certainly agree with you that Atlanta can once again win the division with their present payroll.

I need to correct you in regard to Atlanta’s offense. Atlanta wasn’t the 3rd best offensive team in the NL. They were THE best offensive team in the NL. In terms of total runs scored, they finished 2nd behind the Phillies. However, when you consider the fact that the Phillies play in an extremely hitter friendly park, where as the Braves play in a pitcher’s park, that’s more than enough to account for the 16 runs that separate the Braves from the Phillies. Atlanta also finished 2nd in the league in team batting average.

By Head Coach

October 3, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

KC my friend you have to dig deeper into the rotational projections for 2007 in order to understand why JS believes that the Braves need more pitching. Smoltz and Hudson both made 35 starts. James made 18 , Ramirez 14 and Davies 14 . Thats 116 starts. the Braves used 12 starters and the other seven guys accounted for 46 starts. We can project Smoltz , Hudson and James as reliable starters and barring injury account for 105 starts. Ramirez , Davies are coming off injury filled seasons and Hampton was of course gone all of 2006. So , dont assume that Hampton , Ramirez and Davies can be counted on just yet. Now do you understand the need for at least one more reliable starter ?

By Voice of Reason

October 3, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

Greg: I’ll take Smoltz over Glavine; I’ll take Hampton and his recovery over Pedro and his recovery; I’ll take Hudson and James over Maine and Pelfry. Perhaps NYM will sign Zito, maybe they won’t. Ditto with Schmidt. Perhaps Los Bravos will acquire another starter as well. As to known spots 1-4 as you named them, I’ll take ATL.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 3, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

journalist jon cooper describes the braves clubhouse yesterday: “On a small card table in the middle of the room there was a mountain of unused cardboard packing boxes, while on another table lay random odds and ends left behind. There was a copy of John Grisham’s “The Partner,” baseball cards of Tim Hudson and Danys Baez (Baez’s card showed him pitching for the Cleveland Indians, yet the image on the card wasn’t Baez), an autographed photo of champagne-soaked pitchers Chuck James and Joey Devine from the 2005 division-clinching celebration, decks of playing cards and a box of fishing lures from Yellow Magic.”

old maid cards? and yellow magic lures? topwater lures, right? from texas, right? hmmm….

now, baseball … oh, the humanity! where are the braves? journalist has decided to pull for the dodgers. this is hard for journalist because for many, many, years the dodgers came to atlanta and had their way with the braves. of course now, many dodgers are ex-braves right down to grady little. yes, it will be the dodgers for this journalist. oh, jd drew and kenny lofton? wait a minute … journalist is changing journalist’s mind … st. louis, perhaps? oh, the humanity!

By brewerfaninATL

October 3, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

Robert (Justice is Best),

I don’t mean to nitpick on your managers who have won multiple titles in the past 30 years, but here are a couple more you might have overlooked: Tom Kelly (1987, 1991) and Sparky Anderson (1975-1976, 1984). I agree though, that’s not too many in the past 30 years!

By journalist jimmy smith

October 3, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

still no word on how many braves will remain in town for the upcoming pumpkin festival at stone mountain park. some are reported to be already a huntin’ - though not a huntin’ pumpkins. now, baseball …

change ss and 2b in the same year? will they do this? up-the-middle defense … will it be as good? can it be improved with changes? will it decline? if giles is gone … and if renteria is coveted by another team . . . hmmm…. looks like the team has middle infielders on top of middle infielders. this once was the case with outfielders and with pithcers. now, we have to turn to an american league reserve to find our left fielder (diaz) when our own prospects disappoint (langerhans) or are injured (kj). who is considered the top middle infielder ready to play in the ml right now? or do the braves really have one?

By Mets Stink

October 3, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

Thanks to DOB for a great year of blogging. Reading this blog every day sure has made the season a lot more fun. Hopefully the Braves will bounce back next year and make it even more exciting.

I agree with Head Coach about the rotation. The Braves need to add someone else who can eat some innings. It would be nice to get a guy like Dontrelle, but even if they got a number 3 or 4 type guy that can pitch 6 or 7 innings and keep them in the game, the lineup is good enough score enough runs to win. Hampton hasn’t played an entire season in several years, and Ramirez & Davies are too inconsistent.

By KC

October 3, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Greg

”The Mets have Maine and Pelfry. They will sign Glavine. They will probably add Zito or Schmidt (or both). Pedro may return. I love my Braves, but that staff beats the crap out of Smoltz, Hudson (unless he somehow finds himself), Hampton (injury prone), James (looks good), Davies (jury is still out), and Ho Ram (flyball pitcher with finesse stuff and not enough brains to figure it out). We absolutely need a power pitcher to compete.”

Thanks a lot!!!! You made me spit-take my coffee all over my desk when I read that. Please tell me you’re kidding.

Pedro won’t even be able to pick up a baseball until June, and if he is able to get back to 100% next season, it certainly won’t be until the 2nd half of the season. They might resign Tom Glavine, but he’s nothing more than a decent #3 starter (or maybe a #2 guy) at this point in his career.

Who else do they have? Trachsel? Hernandez? And are you seriously trumpeting John Maine??? Who the hell is Pelfry?? You might be right about the Mets getting Zito or Schmidt. I’m sure they’ll offer both of those guys a mint, but so will the Yankees, Dodgers, possibly the Cardinals, and a couple other teams will probably cast their lots in the bidding war. Even if the Mets land Zito or Schmidt, they still have big starting pitching problems. Now, as for the Braves rotation:

Smoltz is still as good as they come.

Tim Hudson had a lousy year, but historically when pitchers the caliber of Tim Hudson struggle as he did this year, they almost always follow up with a strong season the following year. He’s only 30 and his stuff is still very much there. His only problem was some mechanical inconsistencies. I would be money on a solid season from Huddy next year.

“Hampton (injury prone)” Last year was the first season in 9 years in which Mike Hampton failed to make at least 29 starts. His recovery is going extremely well, and he will have had the full recommended 18 month recovery period by the time spring training rolls around.

“Ho Ram (flyball pitcher with finesse stuff and not enough brains to figure it out).” Roger McDowell got HoRam sinking the ball more this season, and the results were very encouraging. He cut his HR allowed per 9 innings in half from his previous year. Between DL stints (over 12 starts) we went 5-4 with a 3.91 ERA. Nine of his 12 starts over that stretch were brilliant. In those starts he showed what he is capable of, going 5-2 with a 1.71 ERA. HoRam has tremendous upside. The Braves organization has viewed him as a top-of-the-rotation kind of pitcher in the making for a couple of years now. The only problem is that he has trouble staying healthy. If he can stay off the shelf, he’s got a chance to become one of the best lefties in the league.

As you pointed out, Chuck James looks good, and there’s no telling what’s going to happen with Kyle Davies but he won’t be in the rotation next year anyway. Frankly, I think Lance Cormier deserves a crack at the rotation a lot more than Davies right now. Cormier pitched very well in Sept. as a starter for the Braves.

The Braves are in better shape at the top end of their rotation right now, and they have a lot more depth. I just can’t even fathom where you’re coming from on this one Greg.

By Mets Stink

October 3, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Visquel would be an upgrade on the defensive side, but I’m still not sure I’d make the deal. Are these middle infield prospects going to develop into good hitters in the next couple years? Maybe, but Pena and Prado certainly don’t look like future major league all stars, and Andrus is a couple more years away from the majors. I know they still have a lot more growing to do, but we have a proven all-star short stop under contract for a couple more years. It’s scary to trade him for a veteran who could possibly be gone in a year.

By Matthew

October 3, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Greg’s 10:51 a.m. comment sums up where I stand on the issue. I for one would like to see Cormier and Villareal in the long relief roles, never to have to start. You’re right, we can win with the starters we have, but did we this year? The only addition that we are looking at is Hampton, who hopefully will rebound to form. I like Tim Hudson a lot, but he is starting to really worry me. A mid-level starter, such as E. Santana, might help us bolster the rotation to the point that we don’t have to have a 20-win season from Huddy and we don’t need Smoltz to pitch 230+ innings. Wouldn’t it be nice to actually have a dominant top four, as in the Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Millwood days? It’s possible, and the Braves have the money and prospects/trade bait to do it.

Not saying it HAS to happen, but it sure wouldn’t hurt.

I think it’s dangerous to assume that 2007 will be better than 2006 if the only difference is Mike Hampton. True, Wickman will be here all year and that is a plus, but there were other holes to fill. Setup man (Baez won’t be back, I assume) and leadoff hitter are the two biggest holes I see. Changing nothing in the offseason will NOT elevate us above the Mets, who (bank on it) are going to sign Zito and/or Scmidt and/or Willis. To compete, we’ll have to upgrade over this year’s roster.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.” -Unknown author

Just my $.02, which is just about what it’s worth.

Go Braves!

By KC

October 3, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

HEAD COACH:

I’m certainly not assuming that we can bank on Kyle Davies next season, because it’s a near certainty that he won’t be in the rotation next year.

I’m not arguing the fact that Hampton’s coming off a major surgery (though he will have had more than ample recover time), or that HoRam is injury prone. I’m not sure about mentioning James’ name in the same breath though. Chuck James made only 18 starts because he wasn’t brought into the Atlanta rotation until half way through the season.

I’m okay with the notion of bringing in a starter, but only if it’s an upgrade. So the question I keep asking is WHO? Who would be an upgrade on any of the 5 guys now slated for next year’s rotation (Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Ramirez, James)? Obviously it would be nice to bring in someone like Jason Schmidt, but that’s unlikely. So who would we bring into rotation, and who would he replace? I just don’t see any viable options that would constitute an upgrade.

By Voice of Reason

October 3, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

JJS: Interesting that you should bring up the name Kelly Johnson. As I recall, KJ came up through the Braves system as a SS. He played 364 games at SS and 12 at 3B before being converted to OF in 2004. Could he be an option at 2B? Since 2000, inluding 2094 minor league AB’s and 290 ML AB’s, KJ has a .366 OBP (.334 ML) and 73 SB’s (2 ML.) Comparitively speaking, Rafael Furcal has a career .351 OBP. Just a thought… Hey, it’s lunchtime!

By Matthew

October 3, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

I’m not necessarily locked into picking up E. Santana, and the Angels may not be willing to talk, but here are his numbers:

2006 W-L: 16-8 IP: 204 ERA: 4.28 (in the AL) K/BB: 141/70 WHIP: 1.23

This isn’t an upgrade over Davies/Cormier? I know HoRam has enormous upside, but he is injury-prone. I don’t know that we can count on him.

Again, not sold on Santana as the savior of the franchise, but he seems like an affordable upgrade over our #4 and #5 starters from 2006.

By Mets Stink

October 3, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

I’m sure I’ll get blasted for this, but what about trying to sign Orlando Hernandez? He’s a free agent after this year unless he’s resigned with the Mets and I haven’t heard about it. With the signing of Wickman, I think the Braves have enough talent right now to make the playoffs next year. If they want to go far, however, they need another big game pitcher. Over the course of the regular season, Hernandez would proabably have about a .500 record of 12-12, and he’ll post an ERA in the mid 4s. However, he pitches big in important games and would serve well in the playoffs. I don’t think the Mets will do much this post season, but I bet Hernandez will pitch very well. The Braves need guys to step up big in the post season, and I think Hernandez is a guy that can do that, and he’ll come at a relatively cheap price.

By journalist stinky

October 3, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

“The Brave’s SOP: do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.” - JS

By Bryan

October 3, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

Dave, heard the new beck CD? Its pretty good and it comes with the videos for all he songs at a regular cd price (or it does on iTunes).

Bryan

By Mets Stink

October 3, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

I’m sure I’ll get blasted for this, but what about trying to sign Orlando Hernandez? He’s a free agent after this year unless he’s resigned with the Mets and I haven’t heard about it. With the signing of Wickman, I think the Braves have enough talent right now to make the playoffs next year. If they want to go far, however, they need another big game pitcher. Over the course of the regular season, Hernandez would proabably have about a .500 record of 12-12, and he’ll post an ERA in the mid 4s. However, he pitches big in important games and would serve well in the playoffs. I don’t think the Mets will do much this post season, but I bet Hernandez will pitch very well. The Braves need guys to step up big in the post season, and I think Hernandez is a guy that can do that, and he’ll come at a relatively cheap price.

By KC

October 3, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

MATTHEW:

“Changing nothing in the off-season will NOT elevate us above the Mets”

Respectfully, I couldn’t possibly disagree more with that statement. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result. That is certainly true. But even if the Braves make no roster moves, they will not be the same team they were much of this year. Keep in mind first of all that if the Braves roster looked at the beginning of the season as it did at the end of it, the Braves would be playing baseball tonight. But even if the Braves don’t touch the roster, they’ll still be in better shape than the 2006 Braves team in a number of ways.

First of all, Yes Mike Hampton is very likely to have a significant impact, but let’s talk about the other things.

Tim Hudson hasn’t lost anything. His problem was nothing more than mechanical inconsistency. Historically, when pitchers the caliber of ‘Huddy’ struggle for a season in the middle of their prime, that’s exactly what causes it. For some strange reason, they just get a little off kilter. You will find examples of this in the careers of Roger Clemens, John Smoltz and many others. In almost every case however, they bounce back strongly the following season. Look for solid season from Hudson next year.

Yes a true leadoff hitter would be nice, but the Braves already have the best offense in the National league, so it would be hard to get upset if they just left the lineup alone.

Here are the reasons the Braves are in better shape next year even if they make no trades or sign any new free agents:

1-Bob Wickman In the bullpen on opening day, instead of too little, too late.

2-Mike Hampton: He was throwing the ball as well as anyone in baseball when he went down last year. When healthy and right, this guy’s a legit #1 starter. It’s very unlikely that he’ll show any ill effects from the surgery a full 18 months after the fact.

3-Tim Hudson: Again, history is on the side of Braves fans. He’s not the first top-tier pitcher to have a lousy season (for no apparent reason), even in his prime. In nearly every case, pitchers like Huddy bounce right back.

4-No guesswork bullpen: This year was a trial by fire for guys like Yates, Paronto, and McBride. But now, they’ve had their trial and have adjusted to the big leagues. McBride’s ERA from July 16th on was well under 2.00. Yates’ September ERA was 2.70. Paront finished the season with a solid 3.18 ERA. Add Blaine Boyer and John Foster to that group and Bob Wickman… and hopefully a veteran setup man, and you’ve got yourself a bullpen.

By MGL

October 3, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Girardi gone from Marlins, Gonzalez announcement expected at 2:00pm.

By journalist stinky

October 3, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

journalist stinky read that john schuerholz has a definite idea of what a ballplayer should look like. does that mean closers should look like friar tuck? and on a serious note, does friar wicky have a nutrition program that will keep his legs strong? maybe ham and hamburgers for hamstrings?

By Mets Stink

October 3, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

Stinky, maybe JS can get Kolb back and trade for David Wells. I think they have the same personal trainer as Wicky.

By Matthew

October 3, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

KC:

I hope you’re right. I appreciate you disagreeing respectfully, which I think shows maturity of an individual. Again, I don’t know that we HAVE to make any changes, especially if you’re right about Hudson and the middle relief guys.

Check my 12:01 comment about the 4 and 5 spots in the rotation. Are you comfortable with HoRam/Cormier/Davies there?

Thanks again for the respectful post. This blog benefits and is better for everyone when we treat one another with respect.

By Matthew

October 3, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Stinky:

Did you ever see Errol Flynn’s “Adventures of Robin Hood?” If so, remember that Friar Tuck was a relentless defender and fighter for justice, especially when Robin stole his mutton. That was the second best swordfight in the whole movie!

Wickman reminds me of the fire in Friar Tuck, except that instead of mutton, Wicky jealously and ferociously protects 9th inning leads. Whatever you’re doing, Wicky, keep it up!

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

KC: I really appreciate your enthusiasm about Hudson, and I hope you’re right. You may very well be. While this year was his only truly mediocre year, his decline started in his last season in Oakland. If I’m a GM with a fixed payroll and several players with monster contracts, and I notice a disturbing three year trend on my “Ace” who’s contract is about to baloon out of control after next season, I’d have to be thinking. Like, supposing he doesn’t follow his trend and only stays the same next year and doesn’t get worse. Yeah, 13 wins and a high-4 ERA is probably close to worth 6 million. Is it worth more than double that in ‘08 and ‘09? Hell, no. Of course, if he bounces back all of a sudden and starts winning 16-18 games, I’ll look like I did a good job. If he doesn’t, I’d be a lot better off paying Hernandez or Santana 3-5 mil to get those 11-13 wins and let the Yankees, Sox, Mets take a chance on Huddy doing something other than underperform while we retain finacial flexibility. I’d say it’s a mighty tough decision.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

I thoroughly share your enthusiasm for Hampton, however.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 3, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

hey, raisins … at last someone who can talk pie! even fried pie! raisins will remember before the kj injury we talked about kj working some at 1b and batting leadoff. this was when laroche was struggling and brian jordan was bobby’s answer to a platoon at first base. can kj play ml infield and would he be better than the others who are now considered middle infielders for this team? despite his woeful start to the season two years ago, kj came on to be player of the month in june with a red hot bat. about that time he was seated for langerhans who finished the season very strongly. who would have thought that neither player would become established the next season? the braves need to keep diaz’ bat in the lineup unless they can come up with a better player - and who will that be? it seems hard to imagine that the braves would swith kj back to infield - especially coming off the injury. second base might ne less stressful … hmmm….

By Carolina Lady

October 3, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

Wicky’s personal trainer is a cook. :-) I love the guy, but I’m really afraid he’s going to have a heart attack/stroke every time he pitches.

By robdawg06

October 3, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

I argued with DOB and others over a month ago about starting Matt Diaz. When a guy hits you play him.

By Matthew

October 3, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

I forgot about Kelly Johnson. When he came up in 2005 I saw him play at the Ballpark at Arlington and he really seemed like a good kid with a lot of potential. Moving him to the infield would save wear on his elbow, but how would that affect Prado and Pena, not to mention Orr (who improved a lot toward the end of the year IMHO? Should we jsut let the four of them fight it out for the 2B position, and keep two as utilitymen? if that’s the case, we could package the other with Giles and a catcher for whatever we needed, at least on paper.

Man, I’m glad I don’t have JS’ job. Although it would be nice to hang out at Turner Field everyday. I’ve never been, but I hope to next season.

By KC

October 3, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

MATTHEW:

I don’t really understand why you’re looking for an upgrade on Davies and Cormier because they won’t even be in the rotation. Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James, Ramirez.

In regard to Horacio Ramirez… Yes, I am very comfortable having him as our #4 or 5 starter. Please see my comments about HoRam in my 11:43 post. Right now, Cormier and Davies are insurance policies, though I think one or the other will be traded next year (if not before then).

By Jack

October 3, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Dave, I want to thank you for all your hard work this year. I love reading the blog. I’m real optimistic about next year for the Braves. I think JS’s pride has been hurt and he will do a good job putting together a champship team next year. I do think we need to add at least one proven,front-line starter and at least one proven arm in the bullpen. Would like to see us add speed at the top of the order, but more importantly we need a guy that uses the entire field and has a high on-base percentage. Not sure about Diaz as an everyday player?? Great bat though. Don’t need to waste roster spots at backup catcher (replace Pratt)and someone like Jordan. D. Ward is someone we need to keep. Keep Andrew even if can’t sign him for ‘08, unless we get an unbelievable deal for him. Hope Chipper finds a magic potion for his feet and oblique. He is a premier player and we need his bat in the line up for at least 150 games.

By 2006 METS

October 3, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

I gotta admit. It’s nice finally reading all the suggestings of what the braves need to do to catch the Mets. I do beleive based on all the attention and concerns the brave fans directed toward the Mets over the years, that they knew it would be the Mets who would end your run. I guess your concerns were warrented. Regardless of how the Mets do in the playoffs, It will be exciting watching these two teams square off next year.

By Robert

October 3, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

(In his best Roscoe P Coltrane voice)

Good news!

Bobby Cox quote - “Hee Haw” (translation) “I’ll watch a lot, but I am going down to Florida for our instructional league. I haven’t done that for a while because we were always playing in October.”

Maybe they’ll teach him how to manage

As for “Voice of Reason”

The comparison to make would be what would a Leyland or a Herzog or a Torre do with Cox’s teams. I’d lay BIG money that any of those three would have outdone Cox given the same teams.

As for earning respect - every opposing player, fan, owner, manager, and peanut vendor wants us to believe just that, so that we’ll keep the donkey

Comparing Cox to Torre, Leyland, or Herzog is like comparing Bozo the Clown to Carl Sagan, Albert Einstein, or Isaac Newton

By Robert

October 3, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

Voice of Reason said “I’ll take Hampton and his recovery over Pedro and his recovery”

Tune in tomorrow when he tells us about the health benefits of smoking

By KC

October 3, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

GRINCH:

I regard to Tim Hudson… I just don’t understand what baseball planet we’re living on in which a pitcher who posts a 3.52 or a 3.53 ERA is considered to be “declining”. Especially in this era of little league sized ballparks and players with special vitamins.

Those ERA’s weren’t on par with what he had done the previous couple of years, but those are still excellent ERA’s. Hudson was hindered by injury throughout 2004 and 2005 and still limited big league hitters to 3-1/2 runs per 9 innings. Pretty damn good if you ask me. 2006 is an obvious far cry from anything Hudson’s done in the past, including his first year in ATL. I would be shocked if Hudson doesn’t perform much better next season.

I see no trend here. I see two years that were exceptionally great… CY Young caliber (2002, 2003). Before those two seasons, his career ERA was 3.60. After those 2 great seasons (until this year) His ERA was 3.52. Starters that post ERA’s of 3.50 every year are highly coveted, and that’s what I think Tim Hudson is (with this year being an obvious aberration). I think he’s a guy who will post and ERA of 3-1/2 every year, with an occasional great year that gets him in 3.00 and under territory.

If Huddy can post a 3.50 ERA next year, I would be thrilled with that. This year, an ERA like that would place him in the top 7% of all MLB starters, and next year with this offense and a much improved bullpen, that ERA would win him 15-20 games.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

CL, it’s a good thing Wicky doesn’t have to run the bases. Can you see him huffing around second, inadvertantly sucking that monster chaw down his windpipe and finishing the play flopping on the ground between 2nd and 3rd like a pregnant bass while in the throes of an apoplexy? Here’s to Bobby not using him in the 8th next year!

By TRocks

October 3, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

What do you guys think of trading for Brandon Webb? He just signed a very reasonable 4 yr $19 million dollar contract this past offseason, and is a superb ground ball pitcher. Webb will get $2.5 million in 2006, $4.5 million in ‘07, $5.5 million in ‘08 and $6.5 million in ‘09. The 2010 club option is worth $8.5 million, with a $500,000 buyout.

Not sure what the DBack’s would demand, so don’t bust my chops. Just throwing out an idea.

By Shaun

October 3, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

Tim Hudson: Again, history is on the side of Braves fans. He’s not the first top-tier pitcher to have a lousy season (for no apparent reason), even in his prime. In nearly every case, pitchers like Huddy bounce right back.

I’m not sure about this assessment of Hudson, although I do think he’ll put up better numbers next season. His K rate and HR rate was pretty much the same this season as it has been for the last several season. His walk total went up, but that could be because Oakland didn’t believe in intentional walks or “unintentional” intentional walks.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

2006 Mets: I actually believed it would more likely be the Marlins (or maybe the Phillies) that would ultimately be our undoing. I only aimed my attention at the Mets because Marlins and Phillies fans don’t show up on this site acting like asses. However, you seem like a decent fellow for a Met, so good luck this PS.

By Shaun

October 3, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

The comparison to make would be what would a Leyland or a Herzog or a Torre do with Cox’s teams. I’d lay BIG money that any of those three would have outdone Cox given the same teams.

Even if we accept that Leyland, Herzog or Torre would outperform Cox given the same team, what does that prove? Babe Ruth outperformed Lou Gehrig in their careers. Does that mean Gehrig wasn’t great?

By Salty55

October 3, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

Grinch One thing’s for sure, if Wicky goes down, the Heimlich is out!

By KC

October 3, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

2006 Mets:

I’m really not trying to spew bravado here I promise, but to be honest I’m not really thinking about “catching the Mets”. In my mind, in the race to be the better team next year, the Braves are already ahead.

The bullpen, the primary reason for the Braves fall from grace this season, is already fixed for the most part. JS will be looking for a veteran setup man to replace Baez, but other than that, we’re pretty well set in the pen. Wickman is as reliable a closer as there is in the game right now. McBride and Yates both came into their own by season’s end. Paronto was good all year. Add a healthy Blaine Boyer and John Foster (two of Atlanta’s best starters from 2005) back into the mix, and the Braves bullpen is in good shape.

As for the rotation, we’re already got Smoltz and a great young lefty in Chuck James. Hampton will be healthy ready to go come April, and Hudson is likely to bounce back. HoRam is another good looking young lefty who, if he can stay healthy, could really establish himself this year. We’ve got two other talented young starters, Davies and Cormier, who we don’t even have room for.

The Braves are already the best offensive and one of the best defensive teams in the league.

I think it’s the Mets who have to catch the Braves at this point for 2007.

By Shaun

October 3, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

TRocks,

Given that the D-Backs gave him that money and those years, I don’t think Webb is going anywhere. I think it would probably take at least two “star” players and at least one top prospect, maybe more. There is no way the D-Backs are going to trade him in a reasonable, realistic deal.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

KC: that sounds like a convincing argument and you no doubt know a good deal more about baseball than I do. I’m sure you’re right. I just know that when Hudson’s on the mound three times out of five I have to reach for the rolaids and I don’t with Smoltz, Hampton (in the past) or James. I sort of count him as the automatic loss when evaluating a three-game matchup and am pleasantly surprised if he does well (which he sometimes does). Not many of you would be happier than I if he pitches better next year. I just grew up with a different definition of “Ace,” I guess.

By KC

October 3, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

I think Hudson’s walk total going up are a clear indicator of what Hudson’s problems were… mechanics. He just got off kilter at times (many times) this season and left the ball up or over the fat part of the plate. His stuff was there, but his location was inconsistent. When he was wild, he either missed over the plate and got hit, or he missed off the plate… thus the walks.

By Matthew

October 3, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

KC:

I understand your point now. I am okay with HoRam in the rotation, and think he could do very well. I worry about us banking on a healthy and effective Hampton and HoRam and a resurgent Hudson. If all three of those happen, I’ll be glad to admit I was wrong. Right now, I just don’t know, which is why picking up a proven yet inexpensive vet, like E. Santana or Webb, is not a bad idea in my opinion. If the Braves can afford it, are you opposed to one of those two over HoRam?

By Voice of Reason

October 3, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Jack: Agreed on Ward… good bench guy. Pratt’s gone. Figure Brayan Pena to get his shot at backup, especially at the league minimum salary. It’s his job to lose…

Matthew: Orr will never be an everyday player. Prado will probably get a shot, but T. Pena, Jr. most likely doesn’t fit into any long term plans, given the presence of Yunel Escobar and Elvis Andrus. Aybar will be the primary backup and 3B during Chipper’s likely absences. Escobar’s slated for winter ball; will he be working at 2B? My money says he is and that he’ll get his shot this spring as well. Long term projects Escobar and Andrus up the middle for a long time…

jimmy: I’d love a big ol’ fried peach pie right now! I’d be willing to bet that Mrs. Anthony (you know her don’t you?) is probably already giving more attention to her Thanksgiving options than JS is giving to his 2007 roster options. KJ has always been a guy who could hit, his 1/30 start not withstanding. If healthy, he could further muddle the LF picture. I believe that he is a leadoff type hitter that will take a few pitches, get a favorable count, and get on base. He doesn’t have Reyes speed, (who does?) but he’s not a bad option. LF could come from outside the organization…

My bet is that JS will address both speed and starting pitching in his typical surprising fashion.

I need some more sweet tea!

By KC

October 3, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Yeah a guy like B.Webb is nearly untouchable. When you have a young, relatively low cost ACE… you’d be crazy to part with him.

By Matthew

October 3, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

I wish you’d posted that before I wrote my last post. You’re right about Webb. It would likely take half the farm and Scherholz Junior’s inheritance to get him now.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Keep in mind, KC; I’m not saying the guy’s a terrible pitcher. I think he’s a questionable #3 or solid #4 guy who used to be a #1 or 2. He was worth what he was payed last year, and he was more or less worth what he was payed this year. If he’s about the same next year it won’t be a total disaster but if he doesn’t get back to former form after that grossly overpaying him for barely adequate production could hamstring our team’s budget. My whole argument is that if it bothers ME that bad, surely it’s bothering JS?

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Salty, unless you’re Tashaun Prince!

By Salty55

October 3, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

KC I’m solidly with you on HoRam…it would be a terrible mistake letting him go. In McDowell’s defense, he got both HoRam and James keeping the ball down…you could see the results. I hate giving up on lefties.

An “out of box”: should the Braves leverage HoRam’s pending arbitration and recent history (injuries vs. performance) and sign him multi-year…three years, say $7MM ($1.25MM, $$2.5MM, $3.25MM)? Lowers next year’s payroll (if arbitration figures are right…$3.0MM?) while protecting for two additional years. If still marginally effective, he’s easier to trade (no such thing as an unemployed southpaw) with a contract and if he busts out, at 29, the payroll should open up with departures, thus money to retain him.

By 2006 METS

October 3, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

KC, I was making a broad statement about the blog in general over the last week. As for you predictions, if I told you the Mets would end up 18 games ahead in the standings and that the braves would not even get to .500 you’d laugh me all the way off this blog. I’m sure you predicted that the brave were ahead of the Mets last year too. I guess you were off a bit. It’s Ok it happens to the best of us. Anyway, we’ll see how things play out next year. Right now I’m excited to be still watching my team Play for a Title.

By Shaun

October 3, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

I think Hudson’s walk total going up are a clear indicator of what Hudson’s problems were… mechanics. He just got off kilter at times (many times) this season and left the ball up or over the fat part of the plate. His stuff was there, but his location was inconsistent. When he was wild, he either missed over the plate and got hit, or he missed off the plate… thus the walks.

Well, maybe. But other “wildness” indicators are pretty consistent over the last several years—wild pitches, hit batsmen. Take away the 10 IBB this year and his walk total is down to 69; plus he probably pitched around more guys as a Brave than as an A because he’s in the NL (#8 hitter) and the A’s philosophy is to avoid the BB at all cost.

His walk total with the A’s was often at least in the 60’s. His control has probably gotten a little worse, but it’s not as bad as it looks.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

Fried pie and sweet tea. Hmmm. I sense a snack in my near future.

By Carolina Gent

October 3, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

I haven’t posted in a few days, but it’s nice to see that civility has been restored to the blog. DOB, let me join the chorus of those who truly appreciate the time and effort you’ve put into the blog this season. It’s been informative, most times fun, and always enlightening. I can’t imagine another place where one would find such informative topics “related” to baseball such as BBQ, with or without slaw and one’s favorite beverage, toes (DEFINITELY not to be trifled with, I’ve learned), interesting statistical analyses, and some of our animal friends such as hartebeasts and baby seals! And who can forget our favorite beat writer’s musical tastes. A bit different than my own, I must admit, but fun to read someone else while they’re daydreaming.

I’ll be following all offseason trade and free-agent discussions with grat anticipation. And I, like many others, feel like this season’s disappointing finish may be just the wake up call that many in the organization needed.

Oh, and CL, awhile back you inquired as to where in our fair state I am chiming in from. I answered, but it never got posted for some reason. Anyway, I’m coming from the left-hand side of the state, opposite end from you.

By Voice of Reason

October 3, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Robert: As I recall, you asked for your opinions to be accepted without criticism, yet you seem to have come out swinging in regard to my opinions. What’s it gonna be? I haven’t slammed you for your takes, only made arguments for my own. I believe this to be a forum for discourse, not for insult. Care to discuss?

As to Hampton/Pedro, Hampton will be a full 18 months recovered from a procedure that has proven overwhelmingly successful. What reason is there to believe that he won’t be ready? Pedro, however, currently suffers from foot problems, one ruptured right calf tendon, one healing left calf, and a torn rotator cuff yet to be repaired. Even when his shoulder allows him to pitch again, (June at the earliest,) his legs are shot. I’m supposed to bank on that guy?

By KC

October 3, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

MATTHEW:

As a die-hard Braves fan, I would donate sensitive body parts if I thought it would help make a deal for Brandon Webb happen… but the D-Backs aren’t going to part with him. As for E.Santana, he looks like a good young pitcher. The problem is again, it’s extraordinarily hard to get anyone to trade good young pitching. It’s almost impossible to get a guy like Webb. You usually only see top-tier pitching talent traded for economic reasons, or when a star pitcher is aging.

I have no problem with making upgrades to the rotation. I’m a firm believer in making starting pitching the absolute top priority. I just don’t know how we’re going to upgrade on what we’ve already got. If HoRam can stay healthy next year, I could easily see him putting up some fairly impressive numbers. I’m just reluctant to see any Atlanta starter replaced by a less talented pitcher, just because the replacement is less injury prone. If HoRam had the injury track record of Kerry Wood or Mark Prior, that might be a different story… but we’ve got a ways to go before we get to that point.

By Carolina Lady

October 3, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Salty, “if Wicky goes down, the Heimlich is out!” LOL!!! :-))))

By Matthew

October 3, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Salty:

That sounds like a good idea to me, especially if you’re right and the ball is getting down for HoRam. There’s nothing quite so difficult to beat in a short series as a rotation with three solid lefties.

Quick, can anyone name a rotation currently with three SOLID lefties? I can’t, so that is another built in advantage for the Braves’ rotation to stay the same.

KC I guess I agree with you more than I realize, IF Hampton and HoRam stay healthy.

By Salty55

October 3, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

CL Thought you’d like that…sheesh…what a vision…let’ all link arms and…PULL!

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

VOR, I agree. Hampton probably could’ve pitched effectively the last month of this season; they were keeping him on the bench for insurance purposes and to make ABSOLUTELY sure he’d be 100% for Spring training. If both he and Hudson stay healthy, I’d bet Hampton is slightly more likely to get 15-18 wins; he’s much more of a competitor mentally.

By KC

October 3, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

2006 METS:

Yeah, you don’t have to worry about next season yet… you’re still playing.

You are correct. I did believe the Braves would win the division again. There was no way to predict many of the things that happened to the Braves. Well… okay, some of them were predictable, like Chipper missing almost half the season with various ailments.

We knew we didn’t have a closer, but here was no way to know that the bullpen would be that bad for that long.

There was no way to predict that Tim Hudson would have the season he did. Or that, after losing Hampton for the season, we would also lose HoRam, Davies, and John Thompson for much of the season.

There’s no way to predict the future. Injuries can happen… players may underperform. But right now, I think Atlanta is in great shape for next season.

By Salty55

October 3, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Grinch You wrote “he’s much more of a competitor mentally.” I hope Huddy reads that and proves you wrong…in a very good way. Hampton is pugnacious as…heck (ladies are present); I’d like to think Huddy is as well! Perhaps there’ll be some serious off-season competition heading into February.

By Voice of Reason

October 3, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

Hampton is only 30, (right?) will be fully healthy, and has a competitive fire that might just help the young guys. Is the expectation of 15 wins unreasonable? I don’t think so. Even if Pedro recovers from rotator cuff surgery, he has no legs left. Like my coach used to say, “You can’t fire a cannon from a canoe.” Somehow I can’t envision Pedro ever becoming a finesse pitcher…

By Carolina Gent

October 3, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

KC: I read somewhere not long ago that the Angels would consider moving E. Santana. Now if only we could get the Twins to move THEIR Santana, that would be news!! Wherever I read that, I recall also reading that the Angels might be interested in Manny Ramirez, or maybe he was interested in them, can’t recall which. That’s why I propose sending Andruw to Boston (though I’d really miss him patrolling CF), who sends Manny to LAA, who send Santana (E, not J) and either Scott Shields or perhaps Chone Figgins to us, plus maybe a minor leaguer. I don’t follow the Angels enough to kknow who plays 2B for them, but perhaps a Marcus-Andruw package would yield even better results from the AL.

Anybody got any pie to share??

By 2006 METS

October 3, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

Optimism is sometimes all a fan has.

By KC

October 3, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

Carolina Gent:

Could be. There may be a few quality starters available by trade. In the case of E.Santana, I’m not sure he would be an upgrade. We really do have 5 quality starters in our rotation right now, so I think it would take a fairly noteworthy starter to make Atlanta’s rotation better than it is already shaping up to be. I’m not sure that E.Santana is any better, or even as good as HoRam.

By KC

October 3, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Voice of Reason:

Hampton actually just turned 34. While he’s no spring chicken, he’s got a few more years before he could be classified as old. He’s about the same age, if I’m not mistaken, as Smoltz had his Tommy John surgery.

It’s the 18 months thing is really, really huge. Most pitchers come back after only 12 months, but Hampton will have a full 18 months (which is exactly how long doctors say it takes to fully recover). All of the issues that recovering pitchers deal with over the course of their first season back, Hampton will be getting out of the way in a winter league.

By Bob, journalist

October 3, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Goodness … perhaps the best all year. With such outstanding, courteous and well informed posts, there is some reason for joy in Mudville afterall!

Nothing much left to add except that the thought of oldfashioned fried peach pie makes me powerful hungry … and whoever the photographer was that caught the “pained/sorrowful” expression on Bob Wickman’s face the other night when we lost, should win an award!

As James Bond might say … never say never.

Later …

By Carolina Gent

October 3, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

KC— You may be right about HoRam vs Santana, but HoRam has been a model of inconsistency the last couple of years, and I feel like Santana’s numbers, coming from the AL to the NL, would improve. He’s good for 200 or so innings, fitting in around a #3 or #4 slot in the rotation, maybe a Milwood-type. It seems like, even when HoRam is healthy, it’s been one good start, two medicore, 1-2 horrible, lather, rinse, repeat!

By DonCoburleone

October 3, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

I think the #1 problem for the Braves in the offseason is going to be getting a solid lead-off hitter. We need someone who can get on and steal bases. Someone who can disrupt the pitcher from the start of the game to an important at-bat in the 7th inning while he’s dancing on first.

WHY DO YOU THINK GILES HAD HIS WORST SEASON AS A PROFESSIONAL??? I ATTRIBUTE IT TO FURCAL NOT BEING THEIR TO GET GILES BETTER PITCHES TO LOOK AT. WHEN FURCAL’S ON FIRST, THE PITCHER IS MORE WORRIED ABOUT HIM THAN WHOEVER IS BATTING!

This Braves offense is almost great, but they need that solid lead-off guy at the top of the order. It’s absolutely vital in my opinion. Our pitching (even though I do agree a veteran starter would be huge) is set up nicely for next season. Having Wickman all year will be a big boost for the bullpen, and there is no way Ramirez and Davies suffer the same injuries in ‘07 as they did in ‘06. James is only going to get better, Smoltz is still the man, and Hudson is a ($40 million) consistently inconsistent #4 starter… The Braves should be able to get to 90 wins next season, and in the NL, that’s a guaranteed ticket to post-season…

By Shaun

October 3, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

WHY DO YOU THINK GILES HAD HIS WORST SEASON AS A PROFESSIONAL??? I ATTRIBUTE IT TO FURCAL NOT BEING THEIR TO GET GILES BETTER PITCHES TO LOOK AT. WHEN FURCAL’S ON FIRST, THE PITCHER IS MORE WORRIED ABOUT HIM THAN WHOEVER IS BATTING!

I think injury is the more likely culprit of Giles’s subpar season.

This Braves offense is almost great, but they need that solid lead-off guy at the top of the order.

The Braves scored the 5th most runs in baseball without a great hitter leading off. If the lineup is basically the same next year, they should be fine offensively.

By KC

October 3, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

DonC

I agree that a true leadoff hitter would be nice. I would love to have a Juan Pierre or a Dave Roberts at the top of this order. But “problem #1”???

Don, the Braves were the best offensive team in the National League this year. It’s hard to call anything that has to do with their lineup “problem #1”.

The Braves lack of a true leadoff hitter wasn’t nearly as glaring in the 2nd half when Giles started to settle into the position and began hitting better. If there’s a leadoff hitter available… GREAT! Let’s get him! If not, our offense will still be fine.

By Matthew

October 3, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

It’s official. Fredi Gonzalez is now our mortal enemy…at least he didn’t join the Mets.

Fredi, good luck winning the Wild Card and finishing 2nd behind Atlanta! Seriously, I hope he has a great managerial career.

By Eric Shelander

October 3, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

OK DB, thanks again for another wonderful year of coverage of the Braves. Your insight and honest reporting has brought us through a harrowing and disappointing campaign. The future however, looks bright, what is your take on Glavine in a Braves uni next year?
Eric Shelander, Balch Springs, TX

By Voice of Reason

October 3, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Let the speculation begin! Who stands in the 3B coaching box next year?

By Carolina Lady

October 3, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

Salty, “let’s all link arms and…PULL!” Except Chipper! He’d wind up on the DL again! :-))

Carolina Gent, good to see you back! Another blogger called Krath, who is currently MIA, is near you in those beautiful mountains. Scoots is in the sandhills, and Sam and Mac are in Kinston. Good company all! :-))

I truly think the team will be a force to be reckoned with next year, ‘cause they all feel they have something to prove. It will be fascinating to see what JS does over winter, but I’d be surprised to see him waiting back this time. Hope springs eternal……..especially in baseball! :-))

jjs, has the missing seal (with fish) made an appearance yet??

By Carolina Lady

October 3, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

VOR, I nominate Grinch! :-))

By KC

October 3, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Carolina Gent:

I understand where you’re coming from, and I agree that consistency is the thing standing between HoRam and his potential (along with the injuries this season). However, I will correct the following equation: “it’s been one good start, two medicore, 1-2 horrible”

Take a look at HoRam’s 2006 game log: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlbindividualplayer_gamebygamelog.jsp?playerID=400141&statType=2

He did not have a “mediocre” start all season long. Not one. Every start was either absolutely brilliant or utterly awful. There was nothing in between.

Let’s take away his first and last start of the season. Those were the 2 starts in which he left the game early and went straight on the DL. In both cases, he was trying to pitch through something for a couple innings before realizing he couldn’t possibly go on. So for the purposes of evaluating his season, I think it fair to ignore those two starts.

In his other 12 starts (between DL stints) he went 5-4 with a 3.91 ERA.

9 of his 12 starts over that stretch were brilliant. Granted, the other 3 were awful, but in his nine quality starts he showed what he is capable of, going 5-2 with a 1.71 ERA. This guys got a LOT of upside. It would suck to trade him and watch him win 20 games with the Dodgers.

By KC

October 3, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

“Let the speculation begin! Who stands in the 3B coaching box next year?”

How bout John Rocker?

By Bob, journalist

October 3, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

Gonzalez should be a good fit for the Marlins as the quick announcement suggests … they obviously know what they’re getting and “being wanted” is a good thing unless your picture is in the Post Office.

We have a $400 bottle of “Old Mc**” that will never be opened, at least not by us … what a pretty little bottle this is that I now have before me … My wife wants to add it to the collection, unopened … there’s the rub … let her dream!!

By **user ID hidden per user request**

October 3, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

HoRam wouldn’t even make 20 starts with the Dodgers much less win 20. He will make 5 or 6 starts, then spend a couple of months on the DL, make a couple of more starts then be shut down for the year. He is the Kerry Wood/Mark Prior/Ben Sheets of the Braves. Good stuff, but good stuff don’t mean squat sitting on the bench. You just can’t invest anything but a spot start in HoRam guy right now. If the Braves are depending on him, well, 2007 will be even longer than 2006. Sign a starter, put HoRam in the pen, at the few times he’s heatlhy maybe he can contribute.

By 22oz

October 3, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

Fredi’s gone! I’ve been waiting for this moment for a long time. How many times has he gotten people thrown out by a mile, costing us runs or opportunities for runs. Our offense has improved already!

By **user ID hidden per user request**

October 3, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

One more thing and then I’ll crawl back into the hole that I came out of. I think losing Pat Corrales is going to hurt the Braves more than anyone imagines. He is a defensive alignment specialist, almost always has the defense aligned perfectly.

Okay, I’m done. See ya.

By jason

October 3, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

What does anyone think about picking up shannon stewart for left field and leadoff next summer??? I feel that he will be an affordable proven leadoff hitter and this would allow for prado to bat 8th and play a solid 2nd base.

By Carolina Lady

October 3, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

User ID, I’m also uneasy about Corrales leaving. Can’t imagine who will replace him!

By Carolina Gent

October 3, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

KC— Point taken per HoRam. Hopefully your confidence in him is well-placed. A decent lefthander is hard to find these days, and he IS one of our best at holding runner close at first.

As to your suggestion of 3B coach, gotta love the Rocker suggestion!! Think of all the interesting conversations he could have with folks in the stands when the team is on the road!! His presence there would certainlym increase the number of line drives hit foul towards the coaching box.

CL Thanks for re-welcome (if that’s what it could be called). These mountains ARE beautiful, especially as you get about 3 weeks down the road. But I love the coast, as well. I do agree with you about next year, and think that is one reason why this season’s let down wasn’t all bad. Frustrating for us fans, certainly, but perhaps some of the team, especially upper management, had gotten a bit complacent, thinking that Bobby Cox could take just about any team and take it to the postseason. Comments I read and heard over the weekend sounded like none of the players were satisfied, and they will come back hungrier than ever. In Wicklman’s case, however, I’m not sure that he needs to be any hungrier. That uniform is already stretched to the max!

By Bob, journalist

October 3, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

Me thinks that user ID hidden per user request is on point with regard to the Defense and 22oz has a point about the Offense … all in all, I think that FG will be missed more than most think.

By ncscoots

October 3, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

VOR, man, is it good to see your moniker back. Maybe MBATL will show up again, too, and we’ll have a quorum!

BTW, I’m willing to bet that if Giles had gone .290/.360 (around his career norms), the biggest discussion on the blog would have been how to fit in his coming salary, rather than the need for a speedy leadoff hitter. I kinda look forward to seeing him play somewhere else next year, hitting about .310, and showing up every poster on the blog who ever threw him under a bus. Yeah…think I’ll like that. Course, I won’t like it all THAT much, since he won’t be doing it for the Braves, but…

By Mets Stink

October 3, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Eric posed an interesting question earlier. Do the Braves try to resign Glavine? JS wants to upgrade pitching. From a personal standpoint, I think most of us would agree that it would be nice to see Glavine win his 300th in a Braves uniform. But, would signing him really be an upgrade? He had a decent regular season, but he didn’t pitch well for the Braves in the post season in his later years.

By DonCoburleone

October 3, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

We need to trade Andruw Jones!!!! We need to get something for him before this current contract is up. He won’t be back!!! I for one, don’t think the offense would be dying without him next season. IMO, Chipper (with 130+ games played next year), Francoeur, McCann, and LaRoche is plenty of pop in a lineup that would also include Edgar Renteria. We need pitching!!! The Braves didn’t win 14 straight division titles with 6 guys who can hit 25+ home runs every year. THEY DID IT WITH STARTING PITCHING!!!

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

Back again. Actually, Carolina Gent, CL recommended ME as third base coach, for which I feel humbly grateful. It’s not all that bad an idea, either; if the runner’s looking at the outfield instead of at me like he’s supposed to, he’ll risk running straight into a red-hot, 50-gallon Texas Smoker grill. Bet that wouldn’t happen more than once. :-) Here’s another Wicky image for ya. Our first two-sport athlete since Dion! Back up Defensive Tackle to Grady Jackson for the Falcons, then showing up in a helicopter (one of those two-rotor millitary Chinooks) at the Ted for the 9th, “Flight of the Valkyries” screaming over the loudspeakers (Like Apocalypse Now)as he steps down, chicken bucket in one hand, baseball in the other. Sack the QB, slam the door. Whaddaya think?

By journalist jimmy smith

October 3, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this

so much to blog about … journalist bob is right - this is a good one. if true to form, hubbard will move to third. new coaches offer new possibilities. will blauser come to the big club? bobby will need a new bench coach and that coach may or may not be in the organization already. and where is jimy williams? now, hudson again … an enigma. he is a veteran pitcher who could not adjust during an entire season - if it was mechanics. now, carolina lady, the slaw answer was what this journalist expected - truly a nc thing. baby seal has not yet returned but, as last time, may have stopped at the beach for a few days. now pie … yes, reaisins this journalist knows the anthony’s. letwan is quite handsome and witty. letwan’s mama bakes award-winning pies. letwan is rumored to return to the blog over the winter. and speaking of awards …

oh, the humility! dob has won a wurlitzer and he is the same person as before. congenial. what does that mean? still, dob continues to do a good job with this blog. now, there are detractors … but we routinely skip their posts. blog life is good.

this journalist will soon travel to asheville for a short visit. nc is a beautiful state. odd, though, that journalist does not know of an outstanding barbecue place in the asheville area. any suggestions?

now, toes … as has been pointed out today - pedro has bad calves (more than one calf, right) and has rotator cuff issues. remember this all began with a sore toe and big red shoes in the spring. oh, the humanity!

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

Oops, C.G., I see you were referring to KC’s rec., not hers. My bad!

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

Rocker would go great with my grill, being a weenie…

By Carolina Gent

October 3, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Journalist Jimmy — While I’m not sure that the BBQ in the western part of the state can match what you find down east, there is a place called, believe it or not, Little Pigs. It’s near the hospital. Not too bad.

By Carolina Gent

October 3, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Grinch— You’d have my vote! Who needs Brian Snitker, anyway??

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

Esteemed Journalist Jimmy Smith, something tells me if you have to wait much past the ides of October for your fish to show up, it would be better suited for Bob’s cat (though Mrs. Bob might not think so). Surely there are fresh fish in Cordele; would that sauce not work with a Bluegill, or perhaps a Shellcracker? Both can be caught in Grinch’s pond and deep fried before they finish flopping. THAT is where hush puppies come into play. Hmmmm, it is growing late in the day and ideas are being spawned…get it? Spawned! Thank you, thank you; I’ll be here all week.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 3, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

an appropriately named bbq place - little pigs. this journalist will visit the little pigs when in asheville - and of course that brings up one of journalist’s favorite poems … this little piggy. this little piggy is a favorite of braves players before the game - except uh, chipper who can never get past “this little piggy stayed home”. only a rumor. just a rumor. not sure.

now, fish sauce with the parmesan cheese and touch of basil … seems to require an ocean-going fish rather than a bluegill. still, if the red snapper arrives in poor condition this journalist may go a fishin’. there are some discarded topwater plugs on the table in the braves clubhouse. perhaps dob can pick one up for this journalist.

now, older barves fans: who can forget the road runner doing commercials for a road runner? (hint: ralph garr- beep,beep). who can forget hank aaron doing commercials for lifebuoy and magnavox? younger fans: who can forget greg olson doing commercial for jimmy smith? now, francoeur is doing commercials for delta, john smoltz for haim habib. (has chipper uh, any commercials?) wicky is a natural for a commercial … and it must be food related - nothing organic. who has an idea? if chicken, somebody with a bucket. if burgers, somebody with extra cheese. a bakery perhaps? any ideas?

By DonCoburleone

October 3, 2006 06:12 PM | Link to this

JOHN ROCKER IS THE MAN!!!!

By Robert

October 3, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

Ok, so here’s a great arguement for why the opinions of people inside baseball shouldnt be taken as gospel truth regarding managerial ability (and this isnt about Cox)

Joe Girardi - the guy takes over a team that pre-season was being predicted by some to be among the worst of all time. They were almost unanimously picked to be a shoo in to lose 100 games. Girardi had them at .500 and in the race until late September

Girardi is then let go, with two years left on his contract because, to paraphrase, he had problems getting along with other sin the organization

So, ask the Marlins coat and tie types, and he doesnt make a good manager

So a good manager is a guy whose ego doesnt clash with the upper levels’ egos (especially not the owner’s ego)

My own take on this would be that given what Girardi did with that team, whoever cant get along with him is the one who has a problem and who should be looking for a new job. of course, in this case, it’s the owner, so that aint gonna happen

The point of this post is to make note of the fact that every entity in the game has their own agendas and their opinions about the merits or qualifications of others in the game depend to a great deal on those agendas - and those agendas are NOT always just to win games

Like management, players also have agendas.

So, anyone who cites the “near universal” accolades/respect/endorsement of Cox by those “on the inside” had better be prepared to show that every one of those cited didnt have other agendas - before we can take that third hand praise as proof of godhood or even of competence

Hope it works out for Gonzalez. Cant help but feel it was a mistake to fire Girardi.

Why oh why couldnt Cox have taken the Florida job? Woulda killed two birds with one stone - strengthened our team and crippled an up and coming rival

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

JJS, I think Chipper gets injured when they snap the thingie shut showing what “take” it is. Especially if the sound comes from an oblique angle. Commercials for Wicky…my, my. So many options. I wonder if he can eat fried chicken with his chaw still in? That would be impressive to watch. What about Hooters? He could be sitting at a table with Chipper, downing a pitcher of beer (no glass) with a huge plate of wings and potatoe skins in front of him. When they get the bill and Chipper’s is surprisingly higher, Chipper does a double take when he realizes it’s for his waitress’s last three visits to the clinic. He stubs his uh, toe on the way out the door. Come to think of it, that would make a good Red Goose shoes commercial. Wicky trying to eat an entire Canada Goose, feathers and all; Chipper saying “No, Wicky, not THAT kind of, uh, goose!” As Chipper goes to give him a kick under the table it cuts to a picture of a cleat, followed by a horrified look on Chipper’s face as he realizes he’s about to go on the DL. The cleat is then magically replaced by a Red Goose boot which bounces harmlessly off Wicky’s knee, followed by a shot of Chipper grinning and a sparkle off one tooth. Ding!

By Paul

October 3, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this

The braves were the best offensive team in the national league?? If you think the braves have a better lineup than the Mets.. you are not paying attention. Forget runs… the mets have an American League type offense. How can you say the braves have the best offense when they dont have a true lead off hitter?

By Carolina Lady

October 3, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

jjs, about the sauce - I’ve heard that there are things call ‘fish’ in fresh water, but I’ve never seen one….. That may be what is used in the making of what is marketed as “Fish Sticks”. If you’ve ever tasted one, you know that that cannot be real fish! Real fish are in the ocean and you have correctly discerned that the sauce was created with real fish in mind. (Use the other stuff at your own risk.)

Missing seal….Considering the size of the fish intended for jimmy smith’s table, Baby Seal may be taking an extended “rest” for digestion’s sake.

Pole: Grinch has been nominated to serve as 3rd base coach, as has John Rocker. If there are no other nominations, we must take a vote!

Grinch: yes Rocker: no

By journalist jimmy smith

October 3, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

chico cadahia is the braves new bench coach. chico, harpo, gummo, groucho, and zeppo are all new atlanta braves coaches. larry, moe, and curly play the bases. new beat writer is rodney dangerfield. chico’s photo reveals him to be quite large. this trend to larger braves is disturbing in a time of global warming. imagine the training table! oh, the humanity! oh, the lack of table scraps. now, will saltoemacchia be traded?

By Robert

October 3, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

“WHY DO YOU THINK GILES HAD HIS WORST SEASON AS A PROFESSIONAL??? “

1) It was reasonable to try him as a leadoff hitter, but he showed rearly on he wasnt comfortable there. By keeping him out of the number two slot for about two months too long, Dipstick managed to weaken not one, but two spots in the batting order

2) Looking at how suddenly and dramatically brother Brian’s production fell off as well, it is not unreasonable to at least wonder whether the brothers Giles lost “mother’s little helper” when the game started to keep a closer eye on such unmentionable things

Given how much better Marcus performed once he was back in the number two spot, it is clear that the primary reason Giles had his worst season as a player was the managerial ineptitude of Bobby Cox

By journalist stinky

October 3, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

north carolina bbq is just pig meat. alabama is where its at for real bbq. why did Mercedes put put their plant in ‘Bama? ‘cause the krauts like good meat to eat with their excellent beers. if i had a cousin in north carolina and a cousin in prison, i’d bust out the one in north carolina first because prison food would be better than north carolina bbq!!!

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

CL, many humble thanks for the the vote; if I win I may be able to provide bloggers with new inside information as the game goes on (providing they let me use my laptop during games). As for your opinions regarding fish…while it’s true the ocean harbors (harbors!) a wide and facinating variety of tasty fishes, there is something wonderful to be said for the comeraderie of a down home southern fish fry. Not only is just about ANY fish tasty when eaten less than an hour after it’s caught, the fry doesn’t require driving 100 or more miles, chartering a boat, a $200 rod, motel accomodations, et cetera. It costs 15 minutes of digging for worms, 10 bucks worth of oil, flour, salt, pepper, flour and meal, hush puppy mix, onions and lots of beer. Plus, you get the added delight of watching at least one person suffer third-degree burns when they drunkenly upset the fryer or bite into a fish/h.p. that’s fresh out of the bubbles. Fellers, it just doesn’t get any better than that.

BTW, I have a bag of Gorton’s fish fillets in my freezer, and they are made from Pollack, a salt water fish harvested off the coast of Alaska. They are also purported to make strange, nonsensical paintings.

By Robert

October 3, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this

Horatio Ramirez - career K/BB ratio is 248/200 - or 1.24, which is AWFUL.

Now he has a career ERA of just over 4

Either - he knows how to pitch, in which case he might have success but will always walk a VERY fine line given how little margin he has with his lo K rate and lo K/BB ratio

OR

His decent ERA so far is because he has been VERY lucky and he is in fact a bomb waiting to go off on the mound

Given that he has maintained a fairly consistant ERA over 4 years now (outside of ‘04, when, ERA wise, he clearly WAS lucky) I’d tend to think the former

So, crafty lefty - serviceable starter but I’d never want him to be anything more than a low #3 or #4

By Robert

October 3, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

By the way, Grinch, that commercial idea is FUNNY

The only thing missing is, in the middle of all the action, the camera briefly pans over to show Cox chewing his cud with a glazed far-away look in his eyes

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this

Robert,I gotta agree with you on the Giles/leadoff decision. While it was a reasonable idea to try it in the first place, I think that by the end of the second month of 0-fer’s it should’ve been deduced that it wasn’t working, especially when he routinely went 2-5 or better every single time they stuck him back in the #2. I like Bobby a lot, but some of the things he does (what I just mentioned, plus letting Reitsma torpedo the season and then defending him and probably bringing him back next year) really make me scratch my head.

By Robert

October 3, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

I nominate Bobby Cox for third base coach.

By Robert

October 3, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

“if i had a cousin in north carolina and a cousin in prison” …….

then I’d say there’s a better than 70 percent chance those two cousins are in fact the same person

By Gary

October 3, 2006 07:30 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB,

Any news on what the TV situation will be for the Braves next year? I would hope that Turner South/FSN would bring over Skip, Pete, Chip, Don, and Joe some. Any news on if this is even being discussed?

By Robert

October 3, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

Grinch - Between the Giles Follies and the Reitsma Chronicles, how many games do you think that cost the Braves this year?

Save one appearance on July 1, Reitsma’s last five appearances were between 6/1 and 6/11 - the start of the swoon

Giles goes right on batting leadoff thru the swoon, and into late July

It’s all there in front of you, if you just admit to what your eyes see -

Bobby Cox, with those two dipstick decisions, cost the Braves a shot a playoff spot this season

Of course, this is all but irrelevent by now, it being October 3rd, by which time we are usually eliminated from the playoffs anyway

By journalist stinky

October 3, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this

grinch, journalist stinky must say that your imagery with wicky and chipper works. you are a true ironosist. stinky also apologizes for harsh rebuke the other night. stinky actually thinks of grinch as so relevant after your recent posts that stinky could never imposterate grinch.

robert, i also question manager cox’s postseason decision-making process. but let me lay this on you. cox, as a manager, has been forced to try some stupid managering decisions because schueholz has put him in a corner. js was obviously enamored of his own legend because he wrote a memior while he was still employed as a gm in mlb. he thought he could go into the season without a leadoff hitter or a closer and the nl east title would roll over and giftwrap itself at 755 hank aaron drive once again. bobby might have been a little better if js wasn’t so proud of his 1987 gordon gekko suspenders.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 3, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this

ah, yes, pollack - works with drips and splatters. lots of splatters when frying a pollack - good inspiration for a painting. now, with talk of pollack this blog may be reverting … what thinketh the grinch? journalist would like to post a tribute to the bluegill - now being employed for homeland security. and why is such a smart fish a sucker for a popping bug? things to ponder from journalist jimmy smith. now, baseball … if chico cadahia replaces pat corrales and he must get the attention of the outfielders … will he employ hand signals/gestures or will he be a whistler or honk a horn? no, wait, that’s harpo, right?

By Bob, journalist

October 3, 2006 07:43 PM | Link to this

Robert,

The last time I said that I was confused, the decibel level rose so much that I turned off the computer if fear of impending disaster … dare I say it again?

Yes, your 6:19 has its points but it leaves me confused …

First “Ok, so here’s a great arguement for why the opinions of people inside baseball shouldn’t be taken as gospel truth regarding managerial ability (and this isn’t about Cox)” sounds reasonable to me.

Interestingly, your “So, anyone who cites the ‘near universal’ accolades/respect/endorsement of Cox by those ‘on the inside’ had better be prepared to show that every one of those cited didnt have other agendas - before we can take that third hand praise as proof of godhood or even of competence” shows that you too have an agenda.

However, that together with your “Why oh why couldn’t Cox have taken the Florida job? Woulda killed two birds with one stone - strengthened our team and crippled an up and coming rival” leaves me confused.

How can you expect us to take you seriously when you start out by telling us that your post isn’t about Cox?

It somehow reminds me of the lunacy of those who suggset that our President was responsible for the carnage of 9/11 … in order to gain public support for his agenda.

You don’t have to be a seasoned veteran (manager, coach, player or fan) to know that it’s unwise to embarrass an umpire and … you can take it to the bank that the same holds true for embarrassing an owner!

The 2006 performance of the Marlins suggests that he may well be a good manager, as they certainly performed better than many expected … but, the organization’s executive management and ownership should not be harshly criticized for addressing an obvious problem.

By journalist stinky

October 3, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

bob, shut up. the marlins overacheived because of their manager. eos.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Stinky. I think both you and Robert are right; JS didn’t give Bobby a leadoff hitter or a closer, and Bobby, being so stodgy and enamored of veteran presence, refused to bring up a couple of kids from AAA who certainly couldn’t have done worse and would’ve gotten valuable experience to boot. Saving LaRoche from those pesky right-handers with Jordan and giving much needed veteran presence in the form of the mighty Todd Pratt for poor little McCann were questionable moves (IMO), as well. But then, he’s won a lot more games than I have. Jimmy, while I am a big admirer of the Bluegill, I must point out that just because it’s noticably smarter than your average homeland security agent or the people that appoint/employ them, doesn’t automatically make it smarter than other fish or popping bugs. I do like to eat them, regardless. And yes, CL, fried river/lake/pond fish require a more mayonnaise-based sauce than Ocean fish. Like…well mayonnaise for instance, with some pepper and pickle relish.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 08:04 PM | Link to this

…and/or Tabasco. Howdy, Bob! What do you think of fresh fried fish?

By TommyB

October 3, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

Evenin’ all/anybody…

Not caught up at all on the blog. Actually I’ve missed most for quite awhile. Work, kids, mostly.

Anyway, I’m heading back to my stopping point about halfway through but wanted to say two things.

One, since everyone seems to be in a reflective and sometimes complementary mood, I’ll add mine. Dave OB — VERY NICE JOB on putting out Good Stuff. Having missed it for several weeks, it’s become quite clear. This is one nice blog. Great Chief Blogster, lots of nice regulars, and heck, even the head cases round out the package. Now that I think about it, it’s a lot like New York. I’m up there every three weeks or so, going back several years… and there are lots of nice folks and assorted psychos running around, but overall that little zone in the East Village I inhabit wouldn’t quite be the same any other way.

Two — Tomahawk’n, I’m with you on Nook Loogan. He really looks sharp in the 3-4 times I had a look. Plus, I couldn’t wait to sit in the stands and hear Bobby cheering him on with his standard nickname format.

Oh yeah, Dave OB, I just finished a novel that sounds right in your zone. Check out White Shadow by Ace Atkins. You won’t regret it one bit. Wow.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 3, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

I hope some of these guys Cox brought in as coaches will have some fire and not be afraid to get in these guys’ behind. We’ll see I guess.

By JJMB

October 3, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this

Grinch, is there anything better than fresh caught, pan fried anything fish for breakfast? If there is, I haven’t had it.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

I’m about to log off for a bit and check out the premiere of “Friday Night Lights.” The TV series, not the movie. We’ll just see how accurate it is, or if it isn’t how entertaining it is otherwise. Back in a bit. Bob, also consider the artistic potential of fishes, dripping grease and canvas. And about that $400 bottle of scotch, it sounds like it might not be in safe hands. May I just make mention that I know of an excellent babysitter for it? I promise no excellent cigar nor roaring fire could dissuade me from my task of making sure it isn’t used for its intended purpose…:-)

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

TommyB; “Nookie!” Let’s go, kid! C’mon! It’s time for some Nookie! I love it.

JJMB: waking up before dawn on the riverbank, catching some Bass, Catfish, Bream, Bluegill, Shellcracker, Jack, whatever…cleaning them on the spot and dipping them, still cold from the water in the mix, eating them straight out of the pan/fryer while washin’ em down with a few left over frosty ones while the sun rises…I’d have to say no, it doesn’t get much better than that. Unless you’re drinking Old Milwaukee, then it could be much better. Oh, the irony! Off to football.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Man! The program guide said it starts at 8:30 and it started at 8! Now I can’t watch it. That makes me somewhat angry. JJ, I should have also mentioned (and this is a nod to you, CL,) that it’s hard to beat fresh caught ocean fish grilled or fried up right when you get back to the beach…Grouper, Amberjack, Mako, Snapper, Tuna, Sword/Sailfish…yummy. And back to the country, there’s a good deal to be said for cooking a freshly killed wild boar all day in a pit and pickin’ pieces off him all evening…damn, I’m gettin hungry!

By robdawg06

October 3, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this

I hate movies and sitcoms about sports. Heck, just watch the real thing (a game). MLB playoffs is on right now too. My wife will watch a movie about football but you couldn’t pay her $100 to watch an entire real game.

By JJMB

October 3, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I like ocean fish because they’re BIGGER! Dorado, sea bass, halibut, whitting, (and I HATE this phrase) IT’S ALL GOOD!

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

Good point, RobDawg; I was expecting it to be mediocre. I just like to make fun of that sort of thing, and if it turns out to be good, then so much the better. Most Football movies are absurd, like every play involves two people violently colliding in mid-air at top speed. Remember “Any Given Sunday?” At least half the scores involved multiples of three, yet not one field goal was shown or attempted in the entire film (which covered a whole NFL season). Oh, well. I’ll see what’s on at 9. I think they’re replaying the Ga. Tech game on CSS; I can scout the enemy.

By TommyB

October 3, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

Green One: Just where do you find boar ‘round here?

I grew up near Jeffrey’s Hell. That’s a spot in extreme Eastern Tenessee merging with NC. Called that because it’s mostly a 3-5’ high thicket for miles. Boars love it. More than a few dead hunters in its history.

Boars here? ?

By journalist stinky

October 3, 2006 09:22 PM | Link to this

yogi showed up in the yankees clubhouse before game. tigers are toast. journalist stinky went to yankees old timer game many moons ago. roberto kelly was on cover of program.

saw kelly manage in minors recently. didn’t have program with journalist stinky that night. program would have been worth at least 5 beers on dollar beer night. damn.

By TommyB

October 3, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this

JJS,

In lieu of an Asheville BBQ hotspot (nothing comes to mind), The Greenery is a can’t miss spot. Top Two spot IMO for Maryland Crab Cakes outside Maryland. Never had a bad meal there of any kind whatsoever.

By Lew

October 3, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

Yes-Pollock-Jackson was a no talent slob of an alcoholic (not that there’s anything wrong with that) and his mop and slop/drip and dribble artwork is a joke. Now David Pollock-One would hope he will recover from his neck bending and maybe become a productive football player again. Yes, discriminating artists of true talent marvel at what some consider to be art.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

Tommy, I just moved back to Atlanta from Swainsboro (where I spent the last 10 years). About 180 miles SE of ATL. Pretty good hawg country all around; I miss it quite a bit. Not just hawgs, but hawks, wild turkeys, coyotes howlin’ in the evening, dirt roads and deep woods (at least for GA) for miles in any direction. I had a few friends who were dumb enough to hunt with bows, but I always stood around with my trusty lever-action .444 Marlin. I’m more interested in eating than going to the emergency room. I understand our hawgs aren’t as big or mean as yours in Tennesseee, but they taste pretty dang good and I had a buddy get gored pretty bad acting the fool. Good stuff; I like an animal that hunts you back.

By kreedham

October 3, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

DOB

Will Blauser move up to Richmond?

Can we get a blog at least once a week in the off season?

How about a music blog in the off season?

Enjoyed your columns and the hugh fan interest it generated. Best blog on ajc.com

By JJMB

October 3, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Tommy, if you’re challenging Georgia about boars… ahh, too easy.

The state has a lot of boar hunting in it’s middle and southern regions. I think there is a claim to the world’s largest boar down there. What was the name they gave it? Hogzilla? Something like that.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this

Lew, I agree about Pollock; though Ed Harris did a pretty good job portraying him (and who among us should deny artists their creative spirits?).

Tommy, the only time I go hawg huntin’ in the ATL is when it gets cold…nothing like pickin’ up a couple of BBW’s at the mall to keep warm with!

By TommyB

October 3, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

Grinch, Me, too. I’m not one for sitting in tree stands and ambushing. If it doesn’t involve risk and stalking, forget it.

You do know where the boar came from, don’t you? Vanderbilt brought them over from Russia for his hunting preserve (Asheville), they busted out, and the rest is history.

By Bob, journalist

October 3, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

Hi Grinch!

Just saw your post … ain’t much beter than fresh pan fried fish … my all time favorite was the pan fried Red Snapper you could get in an old 2 story, “unairconditioned” restuarant in Key West, down near where the boats came in … if it’s still there, I’ll bet it’s cooler but it couldn’t be any better.

Freshly smoked sailfish ain’t bad either!

Of course, truth is that I’ve never had any bad freshy caught fried fish … it’s all good. A friend once sent us about 25 pounds of dryiced salmon while on a fishing trip in Alaska … we had some mighty fine eatin’ for close to a month!

Thanks for the head’s up regarding the Tech replay.

I see that it’s not safe to depend on what anyone says these days … the “never say never” was for you!

I agree with My Lady … you’d make a fine traffic cop!

By TommyB

October 3, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

JJMb,

Not necessarily throwing down the gauntlet. I’m in the ATL suburbs where I’ve been for twenty years and I’ll be danged if I’ve ever heard of any boar in the vicinity.

My boar-huntin’ was long ago when I was a kid. Probably all inspired by too many Old Yeller viewings.

Any Hogzilla pictures?

By TommyB

October 3, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

Uh, Grinchy. I’d say your winter exploits stem from a combination of loneliness vastly magnified by alcohol.

I’d also venture to say that the human kind involves far more risk.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 3, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

tommyb, journalist knows just where the greenery is. will try the crabcakes. yes, there is much to learn about asheville. boars were introduced there but there is a dearth of bbq restaurants. go figure. journalist is not of an organic mind and there are many organic-type establishments there. they give you a funny look when you order a side of melted cheese. now, the biltmore house and famed grove park inn… since when are seals not welcomed? and this talk of hunting reminds journalist of the ill-fated seal clubbing coverage this journalist did last year. as some will recall, this journalist had to go on the dl for a few days afterward. the only good thing to come of this adventure was baby seal. baby seal is a babe magnet. attracts many beautiful women for discussion with jimmy smith. perhaps journalist will allow dob to borrow baby seal for a few days during spring training in exchange for field level seats. now, lew … this year we shall have pie at spring training!

By JJMB

October 3, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

Tommy, a simple google search will give you a picture.

By flbravesgirl

October 3, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

Russian pigs? That’ll be right up Grinch’s alley, lol.

CL, Grinch, Salty, the Wicky running the bases/heimlich/commercial conversation cracked me up. Y’all sure do pick on Chipper though (not CL of course).

Interesting news about the coaching changes. Bobby doesn’t usually have so much turnover. Maybe it was decided that a shake-up would be good for the team?

Congratulations to Fredi. He’s got a lot of talent to work with in Miami (and a large-egoed owner to deal with).

By TommyB

October 3, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

JJS, There is another place the wife strenously recommends. Unfortunately she doesn’t have a name. : )

She recalls I wasn’t pleased because the food was cold. For some that may be trivial, but for me, t’is not.

Anyway, it’s right across from Biltmore. If you know where La Paz is (decent if you’re in the mood for Mexican/SW), it’s within a block or so on a side street. Kind of a small place but jammed usually. Chef (she remembers) hails fro ATL. Little house. Sorry! That’s all I can recall…

Re: “baby seal,” are you saying you have an actual baby seal?

By TommyB

October 3, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

Thanks for pointing it out, JJMB. I’m running a mite off kilter tonight with my celebration of the As over the Twins, followed by my celebration of the Cards over the Padres.

Just Googled and the top hit was from Snopes, which seemed to throw a splash or two of cold water.

Impressive picture, though.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

Hey, Y’all; Law and Order CI and SVU are both pretty good tonight; I’ll catch up on the posts periodically. Tommy, I NEVER hunt from a stand; it’s just not right. If I don’t bag what I’m looking for the right way, I consider it a beautiful day in the woods and go to the grocery. I’ll be back in a minute.

By Metropolitan Man

October 3, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this

Cant beleive Delta named a flight ” The Wright Flight”, in honor of David Wright. It will be in circulation for 6 months. I knew we had some fans here in the ATL who were actually from here. LETS GO METS!

By JJMB

October 3, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

Hey! Go Pads!

By journalist jimmy smith

October 3, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

tommyb, that must be the corner kitchen … last trip this journalist spotted it and there was a line. they have a no-seals policy there as well. we ended up at the a&W root beer place just down the street where baby seal enjoyed a frosted mug of delicious root beer while dressed as a small braves fan. baby seal also enjoys the starbucks adjacent to the biltmore gate. journalist is very familiar with the village and remembers when the area was flooded a couple years ago. oh, the humanity! the yankees have won! jeter came up big. pujols came up big earlier for the cards. that’s why they make the big bucks. now, back to non-baseball talk … carolina lady is a favorite of baby seal (seal crush). they sometimes fish together. carolina lady can tell you more …

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 11:50 PM | Link to this

FLBgirl; how’d you know about the Russians? I KNEW you had to be spying on me; nobody around here makes a good Red Velvet cake…the “Red” should have clued me in. :-) Bob, I’m not sure what the “Never say never” quote meant in relation to me (I’m somewhat disabled at the moment); I hope it was well meant and I didn’t make too much of a hash of it. Jimmy Smith, there will undoubtedly be pie this Spring training; the question is, will it be Edward’s, Sara Lee, Mrs. Smith’s, Mrs. Anthony’s or something else? And flavours…Oh, the magnanamy!

By D'Andre Williams

October 3, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this

The Braves should be very solid next year. There offensive should rank in the top 5 in the young national league. The only thing they need is a leadoff hitter. I read from foxsports.com that the Blue Jays, Indians, Red Sox, Cardinals and Rockies are among the teams that might be interested in bringing in Marcus Giles. I would trade him to the Red sox for Manny Delcarmen. I would also go after Gary Matthews, Jr, David Dellucci,Frank Catalanotto, Shannon Stewart,or Jay Payton in that order as a leadoff hitter. The person I want to see is Brandon Jones Who did great for the Mississippi Braves. The starting pitching should be very deep this year I would hold on too Tim hudson and Horacio Ramiez because I would pedict they would have a breakthrough season next year. Horacio look like the ace of the staff at times this year. The bullpen should also be solid with next year.Watch out for Blaine Boyer, Joey Devine, John Foster, Phil Stockman, Will Startup, and Antony Lerew fighting for jobs. Contact me if you have any comments at jshooter6@yahoo.com GO BRAVES.

By The Grinch

October 3, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

Tommy, your comment about women and risk just reached me. Truer words were rarely spoken; most girls can’t play the board game but can occupy your country with a quickness…whoo! I’d better shut up before I get crucified (or annexed)…back to pork. :-)

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this

Oops, I miss spelled magnamanamannamy.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 4, 2006 12:06 AM | Link to this

grinch appears to be in fine form tonight. grinch also appears to be hungry with talk of barbecue, fish, chicken, burgers, cake, and pie. pork is barbecue and barbecue is pork. now, gary matthews jr is the derosa of the outfield. remember the name felix pie. there is a pie in the braves future. journalist out.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 12:07 AM | Link to this

Jimmy, did Baby Seal show up drunk outside the Biltmore in the rain at night, shouting “COWARDS!” at the closed shutters? It would have been appropriate.

By flbravesgirl

October 4, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this

Now, Grinch, you’ve made enough comments about Russian history and culture for me to know it’s an interest of yours (it’s an interest of mine too, though you obviously know a lot more about it. I’d love to go there someday, esp. to St. Petersburg). And I’ll have you know that my Red Velvet cake recipe is from my aunt’s mother, a wonderful lady from Wrightsville, Georgia.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 12:26 AM | Link to this

Not Soviet Georgia…Whew! You may now be trusted…for the moment. :-) Yes, those crafty Russians know how to lure other countries into thinking their lush forests and bountiful game can be had for the taking, but they (other countries) never seem to take heed to the fact that Russia doesn’t have either lush forests nor bountiful game. Let’s all follow Charles the XXII’s plan and seize the tundra! Go figure. They do, however, make excellent stew with small game, roots, mushrooms and sour cream. That, with some icy cold vodichka on a freezing night with a lovely stout Russian girl will make one forget about the harsh winter…’till you get up to go to the bathroom. %$#&, it’s cold!

By Tomahawkin

October 4, 2006 12:29 AM | Link to this

The Green One, Luv Some Old Al Green, Isleys etc…, but the younger cats don’t listen to dat stuff…

Shaun, Smoltz would have had the Cy Young In da bag if it wasn’t for a guy named Reeksma, He not only cost us a wild card berth, but Smoltz a Cy Young as well

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 12:31 AM | Link to this

I meant XII of Sweeden, not XXII, which doesn’t exist except as perhaps a t-shirt. FLBgirl, Russia is a baffling place, and one worthy of much study and admiration. I did not learn this until I was 31, and I commend you for knowing it now. I must warn you, however; its climate is somewhat different than Florida’s. Red Velvet cake would likely be appreciated, however.

By Tomahawkin

October 4, 2006 12:32 AM | Link to this

Grinch, Whats Happenin Chief…

Does Anyone know if Salty will be in Left Next Year…

I’m already on the Trade 4 Nook Logan of the Nationals to play left and leadoff next year…Som I’m startin it now while its early…

By Tomahawkin

October 4, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this

*Tommy B * Glad To see You Like MY Idea of Nook Logan leading off next year…I like the fact that he knows his role and doesn’t try to swing 4 da fences…

By Lew

October 4, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this

Grinch-The real challenge is being spirited and retaining a semblance of hand-eye coordination at the same time. Pollock wasn’t able to do this, though Ed Harris potrayed him not doing it quite well, indeed. Good night.

By Tomahawkin

October 4, 2006 12:44 AM | Link to this

Here’s My Nonsense on Hudson and HamDawg (Hampton)

Hudson better get his a-s-s together and some out smokin next year, becuz if not i’m gonna get in his a-s-s. I’ve just about given up on him…

And Hampton better pitch like a 13 million dollar starter like he was in Houston in 98, Otherwise I see James, and Smoltz in the Rotation and Either Horacio, or Davies being traded. Of of those two but not both, I don’t think…

By gotigers72

October 4, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the blogs DOB and AJC. I thoroughly enjoyed them and hope they continue in the offseason.

My prediction for the next Cubs manager: Joe Girardi.

By flbravesgirl

October 4, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this

Grinch, I planned on taking the trip in the summer (in the very distant future). I know I’m not prepared for winter there. This is a girl who had never seen snow ‘til a few years ago talking.

Besides the Red Velvet cake, I also always make Russian tea cakes (which are really cookies) at Christmas. Think they’d be impressed?:)

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this

T ‘hawk; what’s up, baby? I was also the Green One (Grinch, green one, mean one, etc.) It was a thinly veiled excuse to rid myself of Stinky’s evil machinations, but he’s not been quite such an a* lately. Al Green is the shizzle, young girls or old. Trust the Grinch. Of course, if you speak of the Isley brothers, you know where I’m comin’ from. I figured you might. I have no clue what Salty’s doing next year, though there are about a dozen people on this site who think we can get anyone in the majors for him straight up.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 12:52 AM | Link to this

Yeah, Lew; he looked like some drunk a$$-whole frosting a cake. It was a good movie, though.

By Tomahawkin

October 4, 2006 12:56 AM | Link to this

How Da Hell Is Tyler Yates Coming back next year, That Mets Reject is garbage, He’s almost as bad as Reeksma…

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 01:01 AM | Link to this

FLBgirl, summer is a good idea unless you’re truly hardcore (and even then, you’re NOT ready). And yes, regarding tea cakes I think they would be impressed. They’re used to average American tourists, who (ask anyone) are the worst tourists on the planet. “Where’s the KFC?” is the first thing they ask when they get off the plane…fish-belly white, varicose-veined and couch-fat. Hawiian shirts in Russia (or anywhere else). Don’t even get me started. You’ll do fine.

By Calvin

October 4, 2006 01:11 AM | Link to this

Looks like the Mets are struggling to keep a rotation together. How confident would you feel with Trachsel as your game 1 starter?

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 01:20 AM | Link to this

Calvin, about as confident as the insurance company for the Edmund Fitzgerald. (Thank you, all 6 of the bloggers who caught that).

By flbravesgirl

October 4, 2006 01:31 AM | Link to this

I suppose some people would call me fish-belly white (I burn at the drop of a hat) but I do not (nor ever intend to) own a Hawaiian shirt.

Friends from a discussion board I belong to went last year and loved the Russian food. Plus one of our members is Russian, lives in Estonia and goes to St. Petersburg all the time, so I have a guide. She’s a professional translator which is great since the language barrier is my main concern. I’ve tried to plow through learn-to-speak/read-Russian books with absolutely no success. The Cyrillic alphabet just fries my brain. Better to let Tanya lead me around.

By Head Coach

October 4, 2006 01:52 AM | Link to this

What can Nook Logan do that Gregor Blanco cant already do ? And Blanco is rated the best defensive player in the entire Braves system with a cannon for a throwing arm.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 02:27 AM | Link to this

FLBgirl, I’m as white as the driven snow; I meant no reflection (pardon the pun), and no insult intended if you have varicose veins either. Just making mention of average tourists. You won’t find many tan people in St. Petersburg (much differnt from St. Pete, Fl). A translator is an excellent idea; I don’t know 10 words of Russian.

And what’s up with the dude on the Gorton’s fish box/bag? Is he the same one from my youth, only he hasn’t aged? Just for men gel? The life at sea? Or is he the son of the original gorton’s dude and 20+ years passed by without me noticing? Aaaarrrrrggghhhh!

By Gordon

October 4, 2006 04:19 AM | Link to this

Sometimes I think it’s a sin When I feel like I’m winning when I’m losing again - Braves Mantra, 2006

By Robert

October 4, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

“but, the organization’s executive management and ownership should not be harshly criticized for addressing an obvious problem.”

What was the Marlins” obvious problem? That they won about 25 games more than expected?

And how come the Braves organization doesnt address its obvious problem? The least they could do is make Bobby wear one of those bags that horses wear when they draw carriages in-town

By TommyB

October 4, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

JJS… Yep. You named the place. Corner Kitchen it is. I’ll probably give it another shot. The menu was good.

Tomahawk’n… If I remember correctly, Nook is a master bunter. Plus, he is FAST. I remember seeing at least two Absolutely Perfect drag-bunts he laid down… both for hits.

Head Coach… Re: what Nook can do that Blanco cannot… Maybe the only difference is he’s done it at the Major League level.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 08:45 AM | Link to this

Furman Bisher: The loss of Rafael Furcal cost the Braves two ways — at shortstop and forcing Marcus Giles to lead off. Edgar Renteria was adequate, but performed without Furcal’s fire and base-running threat. With Furcal, it’s perhaps another kind of season.

The offense ranked 5th in all of baseball in runs scored. Maybe Furcal would have made a difference, but probably not. At least probably not a significant difference.

The pitching was the main culprit…and maybe giving more plate appearances to a guy (Jeff Francouer) who made an out in a little over 70 percent of his plate appearances (1-.293 OBP = .707 Out Percentage).

Sure Giles had a subpar year and probably was uncomfortable in the leadoff role, but he was also injured for much of the year. But Renteria had a fine year, so Furcal probably wouldn’t have made up for Giles’s lack of production. Furcal would have had to be as productive as Renteria and Giles and all the other secondbasemen.

By Head Coach

October 4, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Giles stats : .262 AVG 11 HR 60 RBI 10 SB .341 OBP .387 SLG and .728 OPS Furcal stats : .300 AVG 15 HR 63 RBI 37 SB .369 OBP .455 SLG and .824 OPS I think Furman is onto something here.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

Head Coach,

But Furcal wouldn’t be there instead of Giles. He’d be there instead of Renteria. A better way to look at it would be to put Furcal in Renteria’s spot. Giles and the other secondbasemen would still be there.

According to Baseball Prospectus, Furcal was probably worth about one more win than Renteria offensively—not that significant.

I can’t image Furcal would have helped Giles remain healthy, which I think was the main reason Giles had a down year.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

According to the Hardball Times, Furcal was worth between 2-3 more wins than Renteria. So maybe the Braves finish above .500 with Furcal, but still 6-7 games out of the Wild Card spot.

The Braves also would have won more games if they didn’t give Francouer more plate appearances than anyone on the team.

By KC

October 4, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Shaun:

Excellent point! It sounds rather ignorant for a columnist to suggest that anything having to do with the lineup was the cause of the Braves’ disappointing season. Atlanta was the best offensive team in the league last year. Scoring runs wasn’t the problem. It was keeping the other team from scoring that we couldn’t quite get a handle on this year.

By KC

October 4, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

Terence Moore: “World Series rings can’t be bought.”

Sure they can. Jose Conseco sold one less than a year ago.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

World Series rings can’t be bought.

Maybe not, but spending gives you a greater margin for error and a better chance.

You still need to spend wisely and get lucky/stay healthy.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

What other team could replace Gary Sheffield with Bobby Abreu?

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 4, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

just in case anyone is still reading this blog, with a solid bullpen in place, the most wins smoltz could have is 22. the games that the bullpen blew for him:

April 9th - SF. reitsma allows homer, GW hit May 3rd - PHI. remlinger unable to hold lead May 17 - FLA. smoltz leaves with bases loaded and a 2-run lead, but remlinger allows tying runs to score May 28 - CUBS. (braves’ 8 HR game) smoltz didn’t pitch well, but left with the lead. reitsma allowed them to tie it. Jun 18 - BOSTON. francouer hit a 3-run HR in the 7th, but the bullpen allowed 6 runs in the 8th. Jun 28 - YANKS. smoltz leaves with lead; ray allows game-tying homer in 8th

and that is how you lose your team’s star pitcher’s cy young

By KC

October 4, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

Those who try to argue that current baseball economics aren’t hurting the game are burying their head in the sand (or up an orifice).

People bring up the Twins. Yes, the Twins organization has done an exceptional job of working with what they’ve got. But do you think their payroll limitations could be the difference in whether or not they win the World Series this year? I do. What if they had another 30-40 million to spend this year? What kind of firepower might they have added to an already potent team?

What happens in a few years when Santana is eligible for free agency? Small market fans get tired of watching their favorite ballclub serve as a farm system for the Yankees, and I don’t blame them.

If this current system works, then why have classes or divisions in high school and college sports? If disparity in the availability of talent isn’t an issue in baseball (supposedly), then why should it be anywhere else?

By KC

October 4, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

BASEBALL NEEDS A SALARY CAP!!!!

There is no other solution to baseball’s problems. They don’t have to set an overly restrictive one. They could set it at say… 105 million. That would only affect 2 teams, the Yankees and the Red Sox.

Then you increase revenue sharing and luxury taxes for the teams in the top 15% of team payroll. Smaller market teams have to meet a minimum payroll benchmark in order to receive revenue sharing and luxury tax dollars. That way you don’t have the money they’re receiving going straight into owner’s pockets, instead of being spent on payroll. Every team in baseball can probably spend at least 50 million a year without any assistance. Then on top of that, if they received another 15-20 million from revenue sharing and luxury tax… they’re wouldn’t be a team in baseball with a payroll of less than 65-70 million.

At least then there would only be a 30-40 million spread between the top and bottom teams in terms of payroll. That’s still a large discrepancy, but at least it’s not the 184 million figure that currently separates the Yankees from the Marlins!

We need a salary cap. If the players want to strike, LET THEM! It’s got to be done.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

KC,

Well, baseball has always been about haves and have-nots, for better or worse. Some teams have to be more efficient with their payroll than others and it has pretty much always been that way. It doesn’t seem to be hurting the game because it’s more popular than ever. As soon as it hurts the owners and players’ wallets is when they will change the system.

By Braves 20

October 4, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

Good to see Eddie in the bullpen and anybody but #45 in the third base coaching box. That alone will mean a plus five games. And good luck to the Marlins.

By ernesto

October 4, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

I’m not sold on the argument that Furcal over Edgar gets you one more win a season, but let’s say that’s true. Would it have been worth paying WAY over market value and tying up much needed spending money to get that one win? We’re just not a team that can overpay, nor should we (in Furcal’s case anyway.) I loved the guy, but E. did a great job and I’d rather see that money spent on pitching.

By ernesto

October 4, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

I posted an “Don’t bring back Tyler Yates” post on a defunct blog, let me take up the banner here. BC says that Swivel-Necked home run server is all but guaranteed a spot in next year’s pen. Yikes! That may be a good thing for souvenier hunters, but I don’t see how that guy helps a troubled pen.

By KC

October 4, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

Shaun:

Baseball is not more popular than ever. It’s seen a recent surge, but it’s nowhere near the level of popularity baseball saw in the early and middle 1900’s.

Football has overtaken baseball as the national pass-time, and participation in Little League programs in down significantly from where it was 20 years ago. In the inner-cities baseball is nearly non-existent, which was decidedly not the case 20-30 years ago.

Baseball’s not dying as a whole by any means, but it’s slowly dying in a lot of small markets. In many small markets, including some with very rich, proud traditions, fans just aren’t showing up as they once did. It’s hard for teams like the Reds, Royals, Pirates, Devil Rays, Marlins, Brewers, and yes even teams like the Twins and A’s to compete with teams that are spending 50-180 million more than they are.

Fortunately, teams that can spend a lot don’t tend to manage their talent very well. They rely on their pocket book more than they do their scouting and player development. So teams that are skillful in bringing along young talent are still able to compete. If the Yankees grow a brain to go along with their resources, no one will ever beat them.

It’s very difficult to keep a steady flow of young talent coming at the level you need them to in order to compete with big spending teams over a prolonged period of time. Again, the biggest frustration for many fans is watching your best players leave to sign with big-market clubs.

Braves fans have had a little taste of this over the past few seasons with players like Rafael Furcal, Kyle Farnsworth, JD Drew, Gary Sheffield, and even Tom Glavine leaving to sign for more money with big-market teams.

Baseball needs to be fixed.

By Head Coach

October 4, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

Shaun, you are correct . the Braves would have at best made it to .500 with Furcal. The pitching was the main culprit. My point is simply that the offense would have been better with Furcal leading off. Another point is that nobody wants to criticise Bobby Cox , me included. but he really stunk it up this season. He went with Remlinger which was a mistake. He allowed Sosa to start 13 games which was another mistake. Reitsma was nothing but a major brain fart , that guy even when healthy is nothing more than middle inning relief cannonfodder. James should have been in the rotation right out of spring training. Six weeks into the season and I knew they were in deep DODO. It was easy to call the season over at the end of May and let the fat lady sing. Reitsma was getting shelled , Giles was totally out of sync , Sosa and Remlinger were cannonfodder. We had burned through ten starters in the first two months. Ramirez and Davies were on the DL , the rotation and bullpen were already in shambles and Cox had virtually no idea how to fix it and nothing to work with anyway. Yea , Cox get some of the blame but it was mostly the pitching or lack of it.

By KC

October 4, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Shaun: To follow up on my last post…

I know that baseball has always been about haves and have nots. But the disparity between these haves and have nots have multiplies many times over within the last 15 years.

Check this out: http://www.economicsbulletin.uiuc.edu/2003/volume1/EB-03A10003A.pdf

By TennesseePaul

October 4, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

KC: The issue is how teams spend the money they have, not how much they spend. The Phillies have spent 90 million for the better part of a decade and produced nothing in terms of post-season success (and sometimes regular season success). The Yankees have spent 200 million the past few years and still haven’t won it all. The Oakland A’s spend less than 60 million and get into the play-offs fairly regularly. The Marlins are at 15 million and were in the run all the way up until a few weeks before the end of the season. What cripples teams more is stupid spending, a-la Kevin Brown.

By rammerjammer

October 4, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

Someone mentioned Blanco as a leadoff candidate…he had nice stats at AA and AAA this season.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Gregor%20Blanco&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453923)

He’s a switch-hitter and is only 22. DOB, is he on the radar screen for LF?

By rammerjammer

October 4, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Sorry about the Blanco link…inadvertently added a parentheses at the end. Here it is again: http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Gregor%20Blanco&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453923

By KC

October 4, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

HEAD COACH:

BC did the best he could. He simply didn’t have anyone to turn to in the bullpen. He tried everyone there. I understand that it was hard to remove James from the bullpen because he and Ken Ray (at the time) were the only two relievers who could get outs. When James went on the DL, they said “okay, this kid belongs as a starter… let’s send him down and let him build his endurance back up”.

And Remlinger looked great coming out of spring training, and the Braves have had some pretty good success in the past with reclamation projects.

You’re mentioning all these players who he shouldn’t have given the ball too, but HE DIDN’T HAVE A CHOICE!!!! There wasn’t a whole lot to choose from man.

I don’t blame JS either. He also did the best he could. He tried several different avenues last winter to get a closer, but there was nothing available without significantly overpaying (either in cash or in talent), and that’s something the Braves have never done. Not even when they had Ted’s wallet in hand. That policy of not overpaying has served Atlanta well throughout the years. It’s that prudent management of money and talent that allowed the Braves to stay on top for 14 years, including the last several when it had to be done with a diminished payroll.

If JS could turn back time, I’m sure he would make and exception and overpay for a closer, but there was no way to know that things would turn out as badly as they did. They knew the bullpen was questionable and still needed work, but nobody expected it to be as bad as it was. There was also no way to predict all the injuries.

It wasn’t learned that Boyer (one of the Braves best relievers in 05) would be lost for the season until after the season started. There was no way to predict HoRam, Davies, and J.Thompson each spending half (or more) of the season on the DL.

Why did the Braves lose this year? There are a lot of reasons, but the important thing is that it’s very doubtful that we’ll see a repeat performance from the Braves. We’ll have to wait and see what other NL teams do in the off-season, but right now I think the Braves will have a good shot at getting back to the World Series next year.

By KC

October 4, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

I agree. Teams with big wallets often spend money because they can. For many years, I think Atlanta was a perfect balance of deep pockets and smart spending. They were the exception.

Still, you can’t have one team spending 15 million and another spending 200. You just can’t. And the problems of declining interest and attendance is very real and very attributable to payroll restrictions.

By ncscoots

October 4, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

If indeed the Braves feel a prototypical leadoff hitter is one of their needs, I’d think it unlikely they would pin their hopes on an unproven rookie such as Blanco. It would seem to me that they would want someone who has already proven they can handle leadoff and produce, and they would want to know they had that on the roster before spring training began. Course, Blanco might overwhelm them in spring training, I guess, anything’s possible. But even in Furcal’s rookie year, the team only slotted him initially as a super-utility guy, not as a regular.

By Robert

October 4, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

Losing Furcal did NOT force Giles to hit leadoff.

Losing Furcal forced Dipstick to have to make a DECISION about who would lead off

As usual, when forced to make a decision, Dipstick made the wrong one (and stuck with it WAAAAAAAY too long)

Furcal stole more bases than Renteria, but other than that they were virtual equals

This arguement that losing Furcal cost the Braves the playoffs is just more Cox apologism

By rammerjammer

October 4, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Re: Blanco

No, he wouldn’t necessarily be my first choice either. Just wonder where he stands in the mix. Braves do have some history (McCann, Francoeur, Devine) with giving kids a chance to sink/swim. Some do, some don’t. My comfort level would be higher with a proven ML performer.

Having said that, Blanco put up very solid offensive stats in the minors…the kind that makes one think he won’t be overwhelmed hitting at this level.

By Lew

October 4, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

Shaun and KC-I don’t necessarily disagree with an imposed salary cap (though I doubt we will see one druing this current CBA debate). How would you implement it. What would the cap be and how do you propose it be achieved. You can’t just cut the Yankees/Red Sox/Blue Jays, etc. overnight, nor can you force the Marlins to boost their payroll to $70 million overnight. What would y’all do? Ernesto-as far as Yates- He is only completeing his second ML season and missed the entire 05 season due to arm surgery. He end the season with a 3.96 ERA (not great, but under 4.0) and opposing hitters only hit .228 against him. Just like Villarreal and Cormier (both of whom got better as the season progressed) he was only one year removed from surgery and we have seen over and over it takes 11/2 years to really recover. We’re not dealing with Reitsma and Remlinger here. Despite Robert’s protestations, BC would not go through this past year again and would not include Yates in next year’s plan if he wasn’t up to the task. Yates has shown flashed of brilliance this summer. Give him a chance.

By Lew

October 4, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Another thing-I think much of our bullpen woes this season can be attributed to the starting rotation. Our bullpen had to pitch way too many innings because the starters couldn’t go 7 innings. Any bullpen who repeatedly pitches 4-5 innings per game on a regular basis will give up lots of runs.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

KC,

Maybe I should have said baseball is producing more revenue than ever, because popularity can be kindof a subjective thing. Baseball owners and players are making more money, so where’s the incentive to change the ecomonic system?

You can say baseball is dying in small markets, but the small-market teams you named are all bad teams that do not use their resources wisely.

Yes, it’s much more challenging to compete with a small payroll, but even if the rich teams are smart, they still will have down years every now and then. Wise teams know you can’t overspend because if you do sooner or later you are going to be stuck with big contracts. So wise teams will realize that sometimes they are going to have to take a step back to take two steps forward.

Also, sometimes “rich” teams, even if they are wise, are going to get unlucky and small-market teams are going to get lucky.

Also, “rich” teams are going to make mistakes because no one is perfect.

Sure, maybe the Yankees can hide their problems and flaws better than anyone else, but there’s no reason other teams can’t put themselves in a position to contend every once in a while at least, especially with the expanded playoffs and the wild card.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

KC,

I do agree that the large payroll desparity is not good, but I don’t think the overall health of the game has suffered much because of it. And small market teams don’t have to suffer from it. They just have to be more efficient than other teams.

I think the best solution is to split local TV revenue 50/50 between the home team and the opponent instead of the opponent getting nothing. There would still be disparity but it wouldn’t be nearly as bad. Also, I think some kindof payroll minimum would help—doesn’t have to be much, just enough to encourage the small market teams to spend enough to contend. I don’t think these solutions would solve all the problems, only better management plus a new system can do that, but it would go a long way.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

Morning, All. KC, excellent posts. Baseball is rotting from the inside out, and something needs to change. When teams are charging $30 for a ticket, $7 a beer, $6 per hot dog, $4 for bottled water and still have trouble competing, things just ain’t right (I haven’t been to to many other cities’ ballparks, but DOB mentioned earlier that Braves prices were about average). Everyone ought to be making money hand over fist. Salary caps work in the NFL and NHL, and nobody’s underpaid. Baseball’s getting almost as bad as the NBA.

Head Coach: “Another point is that nobody wants to critisize Bobby Cox…” May I introduce you to Robert?

By Robert

October 4, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

” BC would not go through this past year again and would not include Yates in next year’s plan if he wasn’t up to the task.”

Just because Bobby Cox does something does not in any way mean or even remotely suggest that there is any logica or rational reason to do so

By KC

October 4, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

LEW:

Good observations on Yates and the bullpen. Both Tyler Yates and Macay McBride figure to be important parts of next year’s bullpen. Both of these guys gained some very valuable experience as the season went on and by the end of it, began turning in some very solid performances.

From July 16 onward, McBride’s ERA was well under 2.00. And Yates’ Sept/Oct ERA was 2.70.

As to a salary cap… It is absolutely necessary. It’s the only way to reign in the Yankees any lessen the disparity between teams across the board. Notice I said lessen, not eliminate.

Ideally, I would say roll the salary cap out. 160 million cap next year, 130 in 2008, and finally 100 million in 2009. Increase revenue sharing and luxury taxes. Create minimum payroll requirements for small market teams to meet in order to receive those funds. Now that’s what’s best for baseball, but the reality is that it’ll never happen.

Now here is a salary cap plan that is nearly guaranteed to pass… though it would take a long time for it to do any good:

Institute a 90-100 million salary cap beginning next year. The only thing is that every player already in the majors when the cap begins would receive a “grandfather” exclusion. Any player already in majors as of the beginning of the 2007 season does not count against the salary cap. So in other words, this cap wouldn’t have any effect at all for about 10-12 years when team might actually be likely to have 100 million worth of players who came into the league after April 1, 2007.

The reason this plan could work is that none of the players currently in the big leagues would have to sacrifice in any way. As a matter of fact, 10-15 years down the road, players that have the grandfather exclusion would get paid a premium because major market teams could sign them without it counting against their salary cap. What real objection could they make. Yeah, I know… they’d start talking about “looking out for the next generation”, blah, blah, blah. But when all is said and done, I’ll be the owners could get this plan approved. It would take a long time, but at least the problem would get fixed eventually.

By Robert

October 4, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

“The Phillies have spent 90 million for the better part of a decade and produced nothing in terms of post-season success”

which puts the Phillies on nearly equal footing with the Braves, despites the latter team’s plethora of purported postseason APPEARANCES (FYI - we’re still waiting for the 97 and 98 teams to show up)

By Lew

October 4, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

No Robert-Just because you have some kind of thing about BC doesn’t mean there is a logical or rational reason for it. Dude-Get over it already-you’re obsessing. Your comments on other subjects are usually worthwhile and have some intelligence to them. What do you really think this obsession says about you and your opinions? Have you seen a counselor yet?

By KC

October 4, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

Meant to say: “players already in the league would not have to sacrifice in any way.”

By Robert

October 4, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

“robert, i also question manager cox’s postseason decision-making process. but let me lay this on you. cox, as a manager, has been forced to try some stupid managering decisions because schueholz has put him in a corner. js was obviously enamored of his own legend because he wrote a memior while he was still employed as a gm in mlb. he thought he could go into the season without a leadoff hitter or a closer and the nl east title would roll over and giftwrap itself at 755 hank aaron drive once again. bobby might have been a little better if js wasn’t so proud of his 1987 gordon gekko suspenders. “

You know, JS isnt pulling the deals he used to. But then we couldnt expect him to go trading a Melvin Nieves for a Fred McGriff year after year

I think teams wised up just a little. I dont have much issue with JS, outside of the arrogance he shares with the organization overall. A few WS titles and they might have cause to be arrogant

My issue is still with Cox. JS may not have dealt him the perfect hand, but think in terms of duplicate bridge. No matter what hand he was dealt, my contention is that any other manager in baseball would have done better with hand than Cox did

By KC

October 4, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Any thoughts on my salary cap plan? Selig isn’t returning my phone calls.

By Head Coach

October 4, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

you guys are not paying attention. The Twins 63 million payroll and the A’s 62 million payroll are both in the playoffs. Its not always how much or little an organization spends , its how well a team manages its payroll. Did I mention the Detroit Tigers 82 million payroll ? how about the Cardinals 88 million payroll ? The Padres 69 million dollar payroll ? You see ? do you see ? No salary cap needed.

By ncscoots

October 4, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

For those who think the Braves have a seeming surplus of pitching, keep in mind that both Ramirez and Davies have been tried out of the bullpen before, with absolutely brutal results. If they aren’t starting, I think you can forget about stashing them away for a rainy day. Davies at least can go back to AAA, but there’s no place to put HoRam if he doesn’t win a spot in the rotation.

On another note, I’m resigned to seeing Giles traded. There just aren’t enough two-holes to bat both Giles and Renteria, I can’t see either one of them batting eighth, and I surely can’t see one of them batting sixth and moving Francoeur to eighth (!). Neither one of them has the pop to hit in that slot, and the eight hole would only serve to take the bat out of Jeff’s hands altogether (think a 30-homer guy gets a strike to hit with the pitcher coming up??). So…just bad joss all the way around for Giles. 2B are easier to find than SS, so Marcus appears to be the odd man out. Too bad, IMO.

By Robert

October 4, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

“Your comments on other subjects are usually worthwhile and have some intelligence to them. What do you really think this obsession says about you and your opinions?”

I think my “obsession” ,as you call it, shows that I feel that compared to any other problem the Braves may have, Cox is such a larger and more pressing problem, that discussing other things like which free agents to sign is essentially a waste of time.

It doesnt matter what you do with the Braves. Buy them, sell them, revamp them, leave them be, encase them in lucite, whatever - so long as Bobby Cox manages this team, they will NEVER win another World Series title.

Dude, read what I said - As long as Cox manages the Atlanta Braves, the Atlanta Braves will not win another World Series title - and tell me how much you wish to wager

I dont care the circumstance, I dont care the lineup, I dont care if every other team in major league baseball folds their tents and ceases operating - a Cox led Braves team is mathematically eliminated from the WS title before play begins

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

Baseball is rotting from the inside out, and something needs to change. When teams are charging $30 for a ticket, $7 a beer, $6 per hot dog, $4 for bottled water and still have trouble competing, things just ain’t right

As long as people are willing to pay $30 for a ticket, $7 a beer, $6 per hot dog, and $4 for bottled water, teams are going to continue to charge that much…that’s capitalism. Is “baseball” any more rotten than most of us, who are willing to spend all that at a ball game, but don’t give that much a few times a year to a more charitable cause?

I see what you’re saying about rotten, but (to get philosophical/religious for a second) aren’t all humans naturally pretty rotten? I mean most of us aren’t murderers or anything, but most of us aren’t going to go out of our way to give up all our money and certain things that give us pleasure.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

We the fans are in many ways just as responsible for baseball’s “problems” as the owners or players or lawyers or agents. We continue to poor money into baseball. Want to change the ecomonic system, don’t go to or watch games.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 4, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

robert, where do you stand on the nose picking in the dugout?

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I see where you’re coming from and I never said I wasn’t as rotten as anyone else. However, I remember 20 years ago I didn’t make any more money than I do now, but I didn’t have to take a loan out to go more than a few ballgames a year. Going to a game was only a little more than going to a movie, which is as it should be. Baseball hasn’t always been this greedy, unless I’m just looking through rose-colored glasses (yes, I know the seats are a little better, and the jumbotron’s bigger, but it still doesn’t add up).

By Phat Bat Boy

October 4, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Head Coach, there will always be small market teams who can put together magical seasons. But those teams have little chance for sustained excellence as they are mostly reliant on young superstars who eventually will reach arbitration and free agent eligibility. And, getting in is one thing, winning the Series is another. Big spending is certainly no guarantee (see Toronto and Baltimore), but I’d bet that over a 5 season span, teams with a $90M payroll (under capable GM leadership) will win more games than teams with a $60M payroll (with a comparably skilled GM). The $60M team could certianly make a playoff appearance, but sustained excellence? I doubt it.

By Thomas

October 4, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Players that left or most likely leaving the braves this year:

• John Thomson: $ 4,750,000

• Jorge Sosa: $ 2,200,000

• Chris Reitsma: $ 2,750,000

• Mike Remlinger: $ 700,000

• Danny Baez: $ 4,000,000

• Marcus Giles: in trade for leadoff hitter(my suggestion is second baseman Brandon Phillips of Cincinati): $ 3,875,000

By ernesto

October 4, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

Robert you’re not the guy who did that donkey song all during the season are you? Obsess about Bobby all you like but save that little gem for special (hopefully solitary) ocassions. Many thanks.

By KC

October 4, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

Head Coach:

There are always teams that play above their salary level, and teams that play below it. Still, when you average it out you will find a definite correlation between payroll and performance. If you’d like proof, you can check out this link: http://www.economicsbulletin.uiuc.edu/2003/volume1/EB-03A10003A.pdf

You might be interested to know that the average payroll of the teams in the playoffs this year is 95 million.

It’s also interesting to note that since 1991, only one team has won the World Series with a below average payroll (2003 Marlins), and only 2 teams have won it with an average payroll (2002 Angels, 2005 White Sox). 9 of the last 12 World Champions boasted a team salary well above average.

By Head Coach

October 4, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Robert , you amaze me with your brilliance. your so bright I gotta wear shades in here. I suppose next , you say that Cox doesnt belong in the Hall of Fame.

By KC

October 4, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

NSCOOTS:

I certainly agree with you that Ramirez and Davies are not cut out for the bullpen. However in regard to Ramirez, he won’t have to earn a spot in the rotation. Unless the Braves trade for or sign another top-tier starter, HoRam will be in the rotation as the 4th or 5th starter.

He earned his spot in the bullpen last year between DL stints. He wend 5-4 with a 3.90 ERA, and 9 of his 12 starts were absolutely brilliant. Granted, the other 3 were awful, but he showed what he’s capable of in those 9 starts going 5-2 with a 1.71 ERA. The Braves are big on him and have always seen him as a top-of-the-rotation kind of lefty in the making. If he’s still with the Braves, you can bank on him being in the rotation.

By Lew

October 4, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

Robert-I know you won’t ever change your position, so I’ll quit commenting on your BC tirades. It’s your neuroses, not mine. What do I know? I’ve been a Tampa Bay Bucs fan throughout their 14 year losing streak and beyond. I guess I’m just a sports masochist. I do know that BC ain’t gonna get fired because you say so, though. Scoots-I, too hate to see Marcus go, but the writing, I fear, is on the wall. Davies needs to start the year at Richmond. I’m not really sure if Horacio will fill our needs, though. Way too many injuries and no one knows for sure if he is even healthy yet.

By Thomas

October 4, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

Trade Kelly Johnson, and marcus giles for Brandon phillips, and you got yourself a tremendous lineup:

• 2B Brandon Phillips

• SS Edgar Renteria

• 3B Chipper Jones

• CF Andruw Jones

• C Brian McCann

• RF Jeff Franceour

• 1B Adam Laroche

• LF Ryan Langerthans/ Matt Diaz

• Pitcher

Bench:

• 3B Willy Aibar

• C Branyan Peña

• 2B/UTIL Pete Orr

• LF/OF Ryan Langerthans or Matt Diaz

• 1B/LF Darryl Ward

Pitchers:

• SP John Smoltz

• SP Mike Hampton

• SP Tim Hudson

• SP Chuck James

• SP Kyle Davies

• RHP Oscar Villareal(can be used as starter) ´

• RHP Lance Cormier(can be used as starter)

• LHP McCay Mcbride

• RHP Chad Parronto

• RHP Ken Ray or Blaine Boyer

• RHP Tyler Yates

• LHP John Foster

• RHP/Closer Bob Wickman

By journalist jimmy shizths

October 4, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

This morning this journalist woke up sucking on this journalist’s thumb — not a problem you say? — but this journalist woke up yesterday morning with that same thumb stuck up this journalist’s A - $ - $. — Oh, the Humanity! — now, baseball, Cox is am a$smonkey!

By Thomas

October 4, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Sorry instead of kyle Davies Horacio Ramirez

By Head Coach

October 4, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Thats it Phat Boy ! its magical, lol. So thats how the Oakland A’s have made it to the playoffs five out of the last seven years and won a world Series with a payroll of less than 70 million. It’s magic and you can take PhatBoys word for it.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I see where you’re coming from and I never said I wasn’t as rotten as anyone else. However, I remember 20 years ago I didn’t make any more money than I do now, but I didn’t have to take a loan out to go more than a few ballgames a year. Going to a game was only a little more than going to a movie, which is as it should be. Baseball hasn’t always been this greedy, unless I’m just looking through rose-colored glasses (yes, I know the seats are a little better, and the jumbotron’s bigger, but it still doesn’t add up).

Well, I’m not sure if you grew up in Atlanta, but I’m sure Braves tickets have gone up since they’ve been winning.

The price of tickets has to do with consumer demand. Here’s an article I found:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/14/commentary/columnsportsbiz/columnsportsbiz/index.htm

Basically baseball management has gotten smarter by increasing demand (cutting seating capacity, building smaller parks, etc.)

Management in any industry are always going to look for ways to increase revenue and baseball has figured out a different way to do it.

Population has increased, baseball has gotten more popular, seating capacity in many places has decreased, and people are willing to pay the prices the owners set. All these have increased the price of going to a game. The best way to stop it is for fans to stop showing up even when their team wins.

By Head Coach

October 4, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

I gotta go , otherwise I’m gonna have to tie half my brain behind my back before I can continue talking in here and leave my three digit IQ in the shoe box. The Idiocracy wins ! I surrender !

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

As long as fans are buying tickets as much as they are, management is not going to lower the prices. It’s hard to hear complaints from fans about ticket prices when ticket sales around baseball are as high as ever.

By rammerjammer

October 4, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

I dunno…I see Horatio Ramirez and I keep thinking Odalis Perez. Very tempting, with one-two good starts, and then, oops, a disasterous start. Just don’t see the guy consistently taking his game to the next level.

Think he’d be good trade bait for someone wanting a “crafty lefty.”

By General (Ret.) apologist

October 4, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

everyone please excuse head coach; he had his package blown off in ‘nam and he just hasn’t quite gotten over it yet.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Three-digit IQ’s don’t usually include a decimal.

By Shaun

October 4, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Thomas,

I like the Brandon Phillips idea at second. He should be quite a value. But I think the Braves could get more for Marcus Giles and Kelly Johnson. They probably wouldn’t have to give up too much for Brandon Phillips.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

You’re right, Shaun. I just think it stinks.

Do we need to wake Bob for the Mets game, or would he not be interested? They’re starting their ace, uh, Mair? I think that’s his name.

By Thomas

October 4, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Shaun I agree we should get more maybe add Dewayne Wise, an ex brave and speedy outfielder.

By rammerjammer

October 4, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

Why would the Reds deal Phillips? Is he being shopped around? He’d be a comedown from Marcus, that’s for sure. And if we’ve accepted that notion of settling for less, might as well go with our own guy, Prado.

By Bob, journalist

October 4, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Thanks Grinch!

I haven’t read the recent Blog activity … but noticed Russia being mentioned … there’s the good, bad, and ugly but the Baltic is a wonderful region to visit, especially Finland, Lativa, Estonia, and Russia.

All I can say is that if one gets the chance … they should go! We especially loved Tallinn, Estonia and St. Petersburg, Russia … Russia could pay off the national debt and restore solvency if they would only sell some of the treasures in the Hermitage and Catherine’s Palace.

Time to go shopping … old folks’ day at Kroger!

Later …

By Bob, journalist

October 4, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Grinch!

Why is the ‘Duke not pitching today?

Best quote in quite some time “Three-digit IQ’s don’t usually include a decimal”!

Later …

By Thomas

October 4, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

METS VS YANKEES:

SS JOSE REYES vs DEREK JETER*

C PAUL LODUCA* VS JORGE POSADA

CF CARLOS BELTRAN* VS JOHNNY DAMON

1B CARLOS DELAGADO* VS GARY SHEFFIELD

3B DAVID WRIGHT* VS ALEX RODRIGES

RF SHAWN GREEN VS BOBBY ABREU*

LF CLIFF FLOYD VS HIDEKI MATSUI*

2B JOSE VALENTINE VS ROBINSON CANO*

DH JULIO FRANCO VS JASON GIAMBI*

• MEANS IT HAS MORE TALLENT

By Robert

October 4, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

“Robert , you amaze me with your brilliance. your so bright I gotta wear shades in here. I suppose next , you say that Cox doesnt belong in the Hall of Fame.”

I have no problem with Cox being in the HOF, provided that he paid for his ticket at the door

As for being ELECTED to the HOF, I suppose one could argue that his managerial ineptitude is so legendary and so unsurpassed that his “antics” are in fact “famous” enough to have a place in Cooperstown

By journalist jimmy smith

October 4, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

oh, the joemorganity! how can he be the announcer? well, upside or downside, betemit is starting at 3b in the playoffs. journalist wishes him a good game. now, why does this journalist enjoy watching a national league game so much more than an american league game? and why does this journalist care who wins if the braves are not playing? journalist is pulling for atlanta braves west.

By Robert

October 4, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

“robert, where do you stand on the nose picking in the dugout?”

As long as he doesnt try to steal my french fries after rumaging thru his sinuses, I dont care

Maddux picked his nose on live tv too, so obviously there is no correlation between IQ and nose picking

Guys, I dont think I am any more brilliant or better than any other blogger here. I just refuse to buy in to the party line about Cox, because the accolades dont make sense to what I have seen on the field for 15 years.

The people giving the accolades have explainable reasons/motives for doing so.

The guy has been dealt pocket aces more than every other hand and has won only one poker tournament in his life. I dont care how well he stacks his chips, he still cant play

By Robert

October 4, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

“your so bright I gotta wear shades in here.”

which is better than being too dim to know the difference between a possessive and a contraction, which is what YOU ARE (you’re)

By Thomas

October 4, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

The play of the mets at the plate was awesome, like the movie Major League 2, a twin killer.

By Thomas

October 4, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

Who are we braves fans routing against, you dont need to be a genious to answer that question.

By Lew

October 4, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

Shaun-You even came up with stats, facts and figures on ticket sales vs.supply and demand. Dude, I marvel. Grinch, before you gripe about ticket prices in Atlanta, go see the Braves play Boston next year at Fenway. I will and the tickets alone will cost me about $95 apiece to sit 15 rows behind the Braves dugout. The cheeseburgers at Fenway are good, though, and cost less than a beer in Atlanta.

By Robert

October 4, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

“Robert-I know you won’t ever change your position”

Show me where Cox did better with a team than another guy did with that same team.

Here’s one for ya - Russ Nixon, the butt of a LOT of jokes

The 1990 Braves under Nixon 25-40

The 1990 Braves under Cox 40-57

Cox’s squad is one game behind Nixon’s

The only DIRECT comparison we have says Cox is worse than Russ Nixon (the only time they both got to play the same hand, Nixon was a game ahead of Cox).

I am sure someone will be quick to point out that on winning pct, Cox’s team was at .412 to Nixon’s .385. Cox managed the team in Sept when some other teams might no longer have their best line up out there all the time. But let’s give ole Dipstick the benefit of the doubt and say it’s a split decision between him and Nixon’

I mean, what a ringing endorsement.

Now, show me some instance where Cox and another guy managed the same crew and Cox bested the other guy, and you can begin to change my mind about Dipstick

By Robert

October 4, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

“As for being ELECTED to the HOF, I suppose one could argue that his managerial ineptitude is so legendary and so unsurpassed that his “antics” are in fact “famous” enough to have a place in Cooperstown “

I had the pleasure of visiting Cooperstown in July of ‘05 - They had a section where the “Who’s on First” routine was played continuously.

I think somewhere right to next that there would be a place for a Cox section. They could have people walk under a big Braves hat with a carrot on a stick attached to it and then they’d sit down and watch for Cox to motion for Wohlers in game 3 of the 96 series, for Cox to motion for Maddux to go out to start the 8th in game one of the 99 series, and then a loop of Cox handing lineup card after lineup card to the umpires showing Giles at leadoff - you get the idea

It’d be a hoot

By Robert's "other" personality

October 4, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

“They’re coming to take me away, HA HA They’re coming to take me away, HO HO HEE HEE HA HA To the funny farm Where life is beautiful all the time and I’ll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they’re coming to take me away, ha-haaa! …

By gpburdell

October 4, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

Wait a minute! Is Thomas really saying that David Wright has more talent than Alex Rodriguez. David Wright is a good player, but he is not more talented than A-Rod. Also, Carlos Delgado and Gary Sheffield are about equal. If anything Sheff is better.

By Bamabrave

October 4, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Now that the season is over I keep seeing reports of how potent the Braves offense was this season and how it was the pitching, starting and relieving, that was the cause for the end of the division title streak. Let’s not forget the June swoon the Braves had. That cost them the playoffs. It wasn’t just the pitching that sucked in June. The potent offense was non-existent and the fielding was atrocious. The end of the Braves streak was a total team effort, not just the pitching staff.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

Hey, Bob! Sorry, I was off for a while. I’m not sure why Orlando’s not starting, but I saw a headline earlier this afternoon on ESPN essentially saying he had joined Pedro as being out for the playoffs. They had a big photo of that Mair? dude and quoted Willie Randolph as saying something like “Oh, the humanity!” Why are you going to old folks day at Kroger? How much do they sell them for? Would you like some of mine, instead? :-)

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

Lew, I’m sure there are many more places in this world than Turner Field where I can get my pocket picked; I just remembered it used to be called America’s “National pastime.” A family of four ought not have to shell out $150+ to watch a game that’s being played 5 nights a week for four months. That’s just wrong. I’m not saying I wouldn’t do it (thank god it’s usually just me and a date, or me and a friend or two); but what about the guy who busts his butt making $400 bucks a week and has a couple of kids who love the game? 20 years ago, he could afford to take them without going to the pawn shop first. I’m surprised there isn’t a corporate logo on the side of the organ now (there probably is).

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

Man, DOB must be enjoying some serious vacation time; haven’t heard a peep from him lately.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

Just turned the TV on and watched the Mets score three runs and 50,000 old people and chicks with mustaches jumping up and down. Get ready for the deluge of morons any minute.

By Bob, journalist

October 4, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

There were a bunch of old folks there but most were buyin’ … not being sold. Carol had me searching for things that go with syrup … but, mostly bought fresh tuna and NY Strips.

Looks like the Dodgers finally decided to make it a game … some Tech feller just done good!

By Lew

October 4, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

Grinch-The first game I ever went to was the Phillies playing the Reds at Connie Mack Stadium. Now it WAS a long time ago, but I have a number of years left until becoming a senior citizen. It cost me .75 to sit in the bleachers. They still had kid prices then. I think adults had to pay a buck.

By Lew

October 4, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

Bob-Syrup is indeed, a good thing. Especially in nice bottles. Just don’t use it for the fresh tuna. Tha is, unless Jimmy gave you a new and unique recipe.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

Back again. Speaking of syrup, Bob, that’s about the speed this blog’s moving at. Steak, fish and syrup, huh? Sounds interesting!

That’s what I mean, Lew. I used to have to pay more than that (I’m not anywhere near THAT old :-)), but the point is I could afford to go fairly often as a kid with a paper route, which is the way it should be. A Braves game shouldn’t cost almost as much as a Falcons game when the Falcons only play 8 home games a season. And I don’t want to hear about quality; I guarantee the Falcons will do better than .500 this year.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this

Well, the Dodgers made it interesting, ‘till that guy from Ga Tech had to come up to end the game…:-) Just messin’ with you, Bob.

By Carolina Lady

October 4, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

Grinch, you have just cracked me up with some of your comments! Really funny!

By David O'Brien

October 4, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

SERIOUS VACATION TIME!!!???

Grinch, all I can say to that is, if 1-1/2 days is your idea of “serious vacation time,” then you, my friend, need a better job or nicer boss. That’s not a vacation, dude, by any stretch of the imagination.

After working all day Monday and blogging until late Monday night, I got up Tuesday to start working and my laptop was fried. Wouldn’t even come on. So I had to call Guy and get him to monitor the coaching story with Fred, etc., which then broke within an hour of me calling him.

Anyway, I had to get my laptop overhauled at the office. Just picked it up again and got home. Quite a vacation I enjoyed. About, oh, 36 hours. I went out to Colorado and did some fly fishing….

I can’t believe how bone-headed the Dodgers were on that baserunning play. I’ve NEVER seen two guys thrown out at the plate like that. Can’t wait to hear the explanation from J.D. Drew (second guy thrown out on the play) and/or 3B coach Rich Donnelly on what the hell J.D. was doing trying to score when Jeff Kent was out easily in front of him…

By TommyB

October 4, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

Grinchy,

Teachers should be paid more than lawyers, as should soldiers and policemen.

I’m not holdin’ my breath though.

As long as the tickets sell at the current price structure, that price structure has zero chance of dropping.

One factor, other than those elucidated by Shaun earlier, is the surging demand from corporate buyers who’ve realized they can buy tickets to sporting events and deduct it as a legitimate business expense. Yeah, I know… way too many of those tickets wind up with non-baseball fans who go to socialize (or not at all and the seat goes to waste).

It ain’t gonna change, bud. It’s even spilling over into the minor leage ballparks. Granted they’re still a FAR better bargain (and many times much more fun!), but you can see prices creeping up as the games sell out.

By Metropolitan Man

October 4, 2006 07:30 PM | Link to this

Whats up bloggers. Anybody interested in drinking some beers and watching the METS-dodgers tommorow should come on down to the ESPN Zone in buckhead. Game is at 8pm and the 1st couple of rounds are on me if you are an AJC blogger. We pulled out a close one today without a dominant pitcher so lets see what Glavine does. I know you guys hate the METS but come on out and root against them. I’ll be the guy decked out in all METS gear. Lets go METS, 10 more wins to go.

By TommyB

October 4, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

Maybe I have, but I’ll be danged if I can remember ever seeing (or hearing) about two guys trying to score on the same pitch.

By Lew

October 4, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this

DOB-Since when is fly fishing in Colorado not relaxing? Especially when you’re in Atlanta getting computers fixed. Sounds like fun to me. If you need more energy, maybe you should start eating fresh tuna with syrup. Fix you and the computer right up.

By David O'Brien

October 4, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

And Shaun was right _ why would baseball change anything when attendance for all of the majors set yet another record high this season. I mean, in New York alone they drew 7-1/2 million people this season for the two teams.

I think the prices for all of sports are absurdly high, but if you compare a baseball ticket to the price of, say, an NFL game or NBA, it’s not even close. Baseball, unless you’re in the expensive seats, it’s still by far the most affordable of the major sports. I mean, have you seen how much the cheapest tix are for crappy seats at the top of the Georgia Dome for a Falcons game? Would you rather sit in the outfield on a nice night for 15-20 bucks or in the upper deck of the Georgia Dome for, what, $40-50? I don’t even know what the tix cost for Falcons, but they’re about that high, right?

Anyway, back to the point _ as long as baseball is setting record attendance figures, and corporations are buying most of those luxury boxes in the new parks, prices certainly aren’t going to come down. It’s the parking that’s highway robbery. Those folks charging $20 to park near Turner Field should wear bandanas over their faces.

But you know what? It costs more than $50 _ yes, $50 _ to park anywyhere near Fenway or Wrigley. For what that’s worth (I realize the areas around those fields are a lot more pleasant places to spend a bit of time before and after the game, and parking is supply-and-demand like anything else, and there’s just no parking around those neighborhood fields.

By David O'Brien

October 4, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this

Lew, fly fishing in Colorado would be quite relaxing. I was being sarcastic, of course _ SARCASM ALERT (apparently that’s necessary). I did not find a way to get to Colorado, go fly fishing and return and pick up my laptop in a span of 36 hours. The private jet wasn’t available.

By the way, T-HAWKIN’, just saw your post about R&B. One of the good bloggers here had suggested to you that you listen to some real soul/R&B, some Al Green, Marvin Gaye, etc, and you said the young guys don’t listen to that? Well, the young guys, if they prefer Boyz to Men or R Kelly or whatever it was you recommended, over Marvin Gaye, Soloman Burke, Al Green, Funkadaelic, Ohio Players, Sly & and the Family Stone, etc. _ if they prefer that new watered-down crap over those guys, then they don’t know their heads from their … butts. Come on, dude, you’ve gotta appreciate the old-school funk and soul. That stuff BLOWS AWAY most of the new guys you mentioned. Go listen to some Bobby Bland, some Albert King, some Wilson Pickett and John Lee Hooker … that’s the real stuff, man. That’s IT.

By TommyB

October 4, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this

As long as you don’t wait until near game-time and the lots are also full, you can park right at The Ted for $12 (drive-up cash) or $10 (advance). At least that’s what the Green lot is (right across the street where the old Fulton Co. stadium was). That ain’t bad, any way you slice it.

I remember having to pay $10 back as far as the 80s when going to Fulton Co Stadium. But that was the privateers though so I guess the official lots were much less.

By berigan

October 4, 2006 08:06 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Carlton Fisk tag out two guys in a row when he was with the ChiSox???

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

Thank you CL; I’m only checking in periodically at the moment.

DOB, I was joking about the vacation time; nobody here’s likely to confuse you with a loafer. As for Falcons tickets, yeah they’re more expensive, but there’s only 8 games (each one means a heckuva lot more), the dome is ALWAYS sold out these days (the crowd is frenetic) and you get to see the most electrifying athlete in pro sports. Not to mention Marta takes you there so you can subtract parking. It’s still a ripoff, but…

Metropolitan man, if I wind up getting done with what I’m supposed to do by tommorrow afternoon (and that’s no foregone conclusion), I might just take you up on that game. I loathe buckhead, but the chance to watch somebody decked out in full Mets regalia up close when Glavine melts down in a playoff game is almost too tempting. Plus, you seem like a pretty decent guy and I’ve never witnessed that character trait in a Mets fan before; I can chalk it down to scientific research. I should know by three or four tommorrow if I’m gonna get done; I’ll keep you posted (pardon the pun).

TommyB, it’s a sad fact of life, ain’t it?

By Lew

October 4, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this

DOB-Dude, I was being whimsical-WHIMSICAL ALERT. I drove an hour to Burlington today and didn’t encounter as much traffic as you did in two blocks of any street in Atlanta. At least I didn’t throw that in your face. Go stare at your JC potrait and re-center your chi, Dude. Go listen to something melodic and pacifying-like some Procol Harum.

By Bob, journalist

October 4, 2006 08:25 PM | Link to this

Fresh Tuna is good with anything!

I’m envious of lew’s Vermont in the Fall … man it’s beautiful … but, you can keep the Winters! Same goes for HeadCoach … two years of the Dakotas in the Winter was enough for me in this lifetime … though remarkably, I never missed a day of work and was late only once.

I can empathize with David O’B and his computer woes … even now, just the thought and hint of the smell of ozone is disconcerting.

Some folks, including myself, have occassionally been critical of Fredi but the doubleplay at home was something else!

Thanks all, you’ve made my day!

By Metropolitan Man

October 4, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

Well Grinch its been too long since I’ve got to root for the METs in the playoffs so I’m on a natural high right now. Like I said this is an open invitation, I’ll be there with my lady and a few dodger fans so come on out, get drunk, and root for/against the METS. Come on out DOB, you might even enjoy yourself. Like I said, 1st couple rounds are on me. Glavine will be on tomorrow, I’m worried about that Oliver Perez and Traschel. Those are the pitchers who will make this a series.

By Lew

October 4, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Bob-Yes-the winter is terrible here. That’s why I never sold the Orlando house. This is, however, supposed to be the best fall in 10 years. Definitely the best of the 6 I’ve seen. Metro Dude-Wish I could be there, but it’s a tough commute. If you’re laying all your eggs in Trachsel’s basket, the boys better have their hitting shoes on. He’s only survived this year with his ERA because the hitting’s as good as it is. Good luck, Dude. Really.

By berigan

October 4, 2006 08:45 PM | Link to this

It was Fisk! Just couldn’t remember much more. Went a googling, and found the info…They used to show highlights of this play from time to time…. YANKEES 7TH: NICHOLS STAYED IN GAME (PLAYING LF); Robertson singled; MEACHAM RAN FOR ROBERTSON; Berra reached on an error by Hulett [Meacham to second, Berra to first]; Henderson singled [Meacham out at home (center to shortstop to catcher), Berra out at home (catcher)]; Fisk tagged both runners out at the plate; Mattingly made an out to center; 0 R, 2 H, 1 E, 1 LOB. White Sox 3, Yankees 3

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B08020NYA1985.htm

By David O'Brien

October 4, 2006 08:54 PM | Link to this

Lew, the drive to Burlington would DEFINITELY be soothing in comparison to the drive down 85 _ or down Ponce De Leon, or Piedmont, or any other street in Atlanta after 3:30 p.m. Must be nice as hell up there about now, right? Fall leaves and all?

Anyway … all’s cool. I didn’t mean to snap. it was more the implication from my my Grinch that 36 hours was somehow serious vacation. If he’d known the crap I’ve been dealing with for that time frame, he wouldn’t have stuck the stick in the cage…. But hey, no worries.

Damn, the more I see replays of that Dodger double-out at home, the more I’m just astounded that J.D. tried to score. That’ll follow him forever, that play.

By The Grinch

October 4, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

I can understand that, MetMan; might be fun. Busy day but I’ll do what I can. My…um, girl I date more often than others is likely pulling a double but she’s pretty spontaneous. DOB might be hard to pull away from his coffee pot though. :-)

By Metropolitan Man

October 4, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this

Teflon Jack Nutts should come on by, you really need some beers. Calm down man, sounds like you should be in a chat room somehwere venting. I peeped you all season and you my friend have the correct title for a name. Anyway if you are a sports fan, then we can hang, if not I’ll continue to ignore the crap you spew. Heck, it happens here all the time anyway.

By David O'Brien

October 4, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this

MetMan, if and when your lads advance, I’ll be covering them in the NLCS. And after they pulled that one out today with Maine pitching, I’ll put nothing past them. If they can outslug Dodgers 7-6, 8-7 enough times, they’ll move on.

I think that series will go five games. If I had to bet, I think I’d still take Dodgers. But man, Reyes and Wright and Delgado were awful strong today.

By David O'Brien

October 4, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

mean to say “my man” Grinch. No my my. Nothing meant by that typo, dude.

By the way, I can second the recommendation someone made for the My Morning Jacket double-live album. Got it yesterday and it’s outstanding. Flat-out rockin’ live band.

But as good as it is, it’s not as good as the new Black Keys CD. My god, they’re unbelievably good. Anyone ANYONE who digs blues and/or blues/rock or just rock, give these criminally underpublicized guys a listen. You’ll be astounded by how good they are and how they aren’t huge starts when they’re so much better than all the current rock, or most of it, being played on the airwaves.

By Tomahawkin

October 4, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

D.O.B. I listen to all dat stuff, My parents got me on it…Luv the 0ld and new Kid…I was just making a point that most young people don’t know good music when they hear, They are Just Subdued To all this New Pop-Tart Crap they Hear and See on those crap networks MTV, and BET…

Gonna Catch the replays of todays games, and then Its Margarita nite at the Jiggly Room, lol…

This Sucks that all da team I’ve wanted to win over the last 2 games have been losing…

The play Made on Torii Hunter Just Furthermore explains why the Braves are gonna be som Dum Sonna-Bytches if the Get rid of Andruw..

By journalist jimmy smith

October 4, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

anyone care for a tuna melt? with syrup? how about a ny strip with syrup? now, souse meat could probably use some syrup. journalist bob, your wife was probably thinking waffles. hope this is helpful.

now, the play at the plate … jd drew! that was an important run that did not score. one of the smarter players to come through atlanta - good riddance. and there will be no maddux vs glavine pitching duel tomorrow. journalist had purchased a new cheese sampler for this game - and is now very disappointed.

By David O'Brien

October 4, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this

Forgot to mention Cliff Floyd, who hit a bomb today. Cliff, by the way, has told me many times how much he’d love to play for the Braves and Bobby Cox. But I’m afraid he’s too injury-prone at this stage for them to give it serious consideration.

By David O'Brien

October 4, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this

T-hawkin’, that’s cool. And agreed on Hunter vis-a-vis Andruw. Coincidentally, Torri Hunter is the one guy that you’ll hear a lot of players say can compare defensively to Andruw. Vernon Wells for all-around play, but Hunter defensively.

I’d have to rate Andruw above him.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 4, 2006 09:22 PM | Link to this

What’s up, folks? Nice to see that Robert is still on his one man crusade to rid the Braves of Bobby Cox.

Now, DOB, I agree that R. Kelly isn’t exactly soulful R&B, but Boyz II Men can flat out sing. You have to admit that. I would never consider Boyz II Men’s music watered down. Now, this crap that is on the airwaves now, that is watered down. I’ll give you that Boyz II Men aren’t quite in Marvin Gaye’s territory but they are lot closer than R. Kelly, Pretty Rickey, and these other boneheads.

By Robert

October 4, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this

“I can’t believe how bone-headed the Dodgers were on that baserunning play. I’ve NEVER seen two guys thrown out at the plate like that”

DOB - you’ve watched Braves playoff performances for HOW many years? And you are not only surprised but have the cojones to call ANOTHER team’s play boneheaded?

Yikes

Notice something about the Mets - There was none of the ‘Oh my gosh we have so many injuries we’re so lucky how could we even imagine being here’ - they went out and got the job done - someone stepped up

I had a chance to look at a Minnesota newspaper today. Interesting. Twins players took responsibility, noting that they missed a golden opportunity to tie the game with a runner at second and noone out in the 8th. There was none of this ‘Oh gee willikers it’s just a crapshoot we’ll get em tomorrow what can you do when the other guy pitches so dernfalutin well’

Also, in talking about Jason Bartlett’s 8th inning “issues” and said something to the effect of they were so funny that 1991 WS hero Lonnie Smith broke down laughing at an Atlanta Wal-Mart - It was funny stuff

Noticed by the way that nary a response to the direct comparison between Russ Nixon and Bobby Cox - Dont know if the party line people are shocked or closing their eyes thinking ‘make the bad man take his facts and go away how dare he question our hero’

The thing is, y’all wanted evidence. There it is. Yes, it’s a somewhat small sample (not so much in games but that it’s only one instance). Unfortunately, it’s the only thing we got that comes closest to duplicate bridge philosophy - the best guy is the one who does the best in any given situation -not the one who is dealt the most good hands in a party bridge game

Russ Nixon’s 1990 Braves finished a game ahead of Bobby Cox’s 1990 Braves.

I’d love to hear the Cox crew explain this one away

By Tomahawkin

October 4, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this

What?…Dat old R. Kelly go Hard!, Its Just that Chris Brown, Rhianna, Pop Tart Mess I Tolerate… They play that crap nonstop at da gym I go to….

Makes Me Crazy Ese…!

By David O'Brien

October 4, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

I’m scratching my head here, wondering how in the hell my comment about the Dodgers’ highly unusual boneheaded play _ and I just heard that NEVER in postseason history have two guys been thrown out at the plate like that on the same play _ and it somehow became a discussion of … Bobby Cox?

Hmmm … uh, I don’t really have an answer, sir. Other than, no, I haven’t seen the Braves get two guys thrown out at the plate on the same play. Only been covering Braves five years, so maybe I missed that one by a few years.

By JJMB

October 4, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

Is Carlos Delgado still boycotting the national anthem? What is his current protocol?

By Salty55

October 4, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this

DOB You said: I’m scratching my head here…it’s a ‘Robert’ rash…comes and goes, and persistent as heck!

By David O'Brien

October 4, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this

I know it’s a strange time to post a new blog, but I noticed this one was getting a bit unwieldy from the load, so I posted a new one with a bunch of scattershot thoughts and stuff, including a brief note about Don Sutton (hint: He’s not going to be in the TBS booth next year).

By TheTEFLONSouthernJackAss

October 4, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this

Met-no-dick-man—pull your nose outta DOB’s A-s-$ and get yourself some fresh air—boy!…