Braves

By Carlos Amato

September 29, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

I really don’t care. I think we should play to win every time. That’s being a pro. If the Astros beat us fair and square, then they deserve to go to the postseason. And I don’t hold any grudges over the last 2 postseason division series.

Now I’m anxious to see James and Cormier finish the season on a high note. I think both kids should be in the rotation next year.

By rammerjammer

September 29, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

Davies’ collapse is stunning. Don’t recall Smoltz or Glavine crashing so badly in their youth.

DOB, is he going to pitch somewhere this winter? He missed a lot of time this season, so he oughta be fresh, and Lord knows he needs the practice. Is Smoltz’ psychiatrist still around?

By gpburdell

September 29, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

As much as I would enjoy seeing the Mets lose in the first round of the playoffs to the Astros, I want the Braves to beat the Astros as payback for the past two post-seasons. Maybe the Dodgers can do the job, though do we really want to see the LA Braves in the World Series? Go Padres…I guess.

By Bob, journalist

September 29, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

Where Oh Where has the new Blog gone … it’s here … like Jimmy said, if it had been a snake!

Coloradobravesfan, I looked it up … the one thing that teams with winning records have in common is that they won more games than they lost.

Jimmy, I ain’t telling about how long I waited … but, My Lady’s receipes are to treasured almost as much as The Lady herself! Kuddos!!

David O’B … why do you think Davies was pitched evening last? Kuddo’s to you for caring enough to check out an individual blogger’s protestations.

By TennesseePaul

September 29, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

My desire is on the revenge of the Astros. Let them sit and sulk in the post season. If we’d made it to the post season round, I’d want to beat them now and if they made it as well. The Mets… well I’d rather we exact our own revenge next year. And I don’t know if the Mets will be able to handle the pitching of most of the rest of these teams in the playoffs anyway. So screw the ‘Stros.

GO BRAVES

By Spider29

September 29, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Being a Braves fan,of course I want them to win as many as possible. But I have always (for some reason I can’t remember) liked the Astros. Point being that if they beat the Braves this weekend and if they go to post season, I’d be okay with that. All things considered though I’d rather the home team win! I do like your thinking, DOB, about having the Astros and Phillies in the post season and the Mets having to play the Astros. Too many people don’t give the Braves enough credit for making it 14 consecutive years. They also are quick to blame our guys as chokers instead of giving other teams some credit. Maybe your scenario would prove to some that getting beyond that best-of-five series isn’t easy no matter how good a team you were in a 162-game season.

By ben

September 29, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

The once mighty, proud Braves fans have been reduced to dicussing whether or not they want to beat the Astros to knock them out of the playoffs. What about what the Astros want?

By Charlie

September 29, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

Payback time. BEAT THE STROS!!!

By journalist jimmy smith

September 29, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

send him some oyster crackers as a good will gesture - one of the ugly bloggers still. journalist is watching the cubs and rockies - what fun it must be to go to a game at wrigley field! now, tony joe white - rainy night in georgia … voice like a gravel spreader - good stuff.

By Mets Stink

September 29, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Who cares who the Mets play, they’re going to lose no matter who the opponent is.

By Greg

September 29, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

The Padres, Dodgers, Astros, and Cards are all capable of beating the Mets in a short series. That was with Pedro. What I’d really love to see is Jake Peavy or Roy Oswalt face the Mets twice in five games. That will teach New Yorkers and New York fans how hard it is to win in the playoffs. And BTW Mets fans, not having Pedro is no excuse. We would have beat the Twins in 91 if we’d had Otis (Cokehead) Nixon in the Series. We didn’t. So we lost. His speed would have made the difference in those close games against the Twinks. So you don’t get to say, “We would have won if we’d had Pedro.”

By Patrick

September 29, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

DOB,

How much of Davies struggles do you think are mental?? Because he seems to dominate in the minors and when he gets called up, he can’t throw strikes. Does he not trust his stuff?

What do you think?

By Carroll

September 29, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

I wanna see our old friends Doggie, Fookie, Drew and Bay-yah-meee get into the playoffs with the Dodgers.

By EEJAY

September 29, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

John Smoltz said if they need me for Sunday against the Astros I’ll be ready. That’s the kind of player and attitude you build a team around. This is for all the bloggers that said all year that Smoltz should be traded. If Roger Clemens wasn’t so selfish he could have come back earlier but he held his team hostage instead. The Stros would probably be in first place now. GO BRAVES.

By Bob, journalist

September 29, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this

10 Paul, it wasn’t that long ago that we owned the Astros in the Playoffs … or so it seemed. Still, winning all three would be a great way to finish before we are rudely awakened by the Carpetbaggers extolling the virtues of TimeLife, Liberty and the pursuits of Fox.

By rammerjammer

September 29, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

I’m pulling for the Padres and Astros. LaRussa’s too smug, Dodgers have too many ex’s, and Mets need to suffer first-round heartbreak to build character.

By brewdawg

September 29, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

I will never, ever under any circumstances root for the Braves to lose. The season has been frustrating enough w/o the complete indignity of wanting The Braves to lose so as to set the Mets up with a bad matchup. I personally don’t care who makes the postseason and who doesn’t; the only team I care about is eliminated. I hope Smoltz sees this topic, bc it will fire him up even more for his start. I predict he will throw his best game of the year- and he’s had some good ones already. Let’s at least end this year on a good note Braves, and Braves fans, don’t succumb to rooting for your team to lose.

By Stinky

September 29, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

Apology accepted. Go in peace, DOB. Just don’t open a brown, shoebox sized package with the caption “THIS IS NOT A BOMB”. (I feel better for having said that.)

And a journalist, you say, hhhmmmm… Now what journalist could there be out there that would hijack a handle like Stinky? Hhhhmmmm… I wonder. A journalist, you say…

Oh, Jimmy Smith, the oyster crackers you mentioned would have to be whole wheat.

By Jim

September 29, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

If LaRussa and the Cards get into the playoffs it will be for a short stay. Then the only current manager with more wins than Bobby will again have won the World Series only once in over 10 playoff appearances. The only other manager with more than 5 playoff appearances (besides Torre), Jim Leyland, will also not increase his World Series wins beyond the current 1. Maybe Robert, should take a closer look at the alternatives to Bobby before he lobbies to get him fired. Afterall, Casey Stengel was the real donkey in the dugout before and after his time with the Yankees.

By TennesseePaul

September 29, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

Padres are the West Coast team I cheer for. They have all the makings of a club going in the right direction. They build from within. Keep the franchise vets. Sign the free agents that grew up in the area and scrap it all together. All of these are the antithesis of the Dodgers. Can’t stand those Dodgers. They throw money around like idiots. Trade for mediocratiy and have no loyalty or plan for what they want to do. Of course, now that Ned is in charge and the bum DePot has been run out of town, they might get better. But I doubt it. They’re still the Dodgers.

I do realize the trading Depot is now in San Diego. But as long as Towers and Botchy keep things going, there’s no reason for Sandy to fire either of them and put Depot in charge. If they keep that guy attached to his lap-top and stick him in a corner, all will be good for that club.

By Jim

September 29, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

I wish TBS or ESPN were televising tonight’s game so I could see it. As a fan I would like to see the Braves take all 3 games (especially tonight against Clemens, whom I detest), but if they don’t hats off to the Mets and Astros for the seasons they have had, and better luck next year for our team.
Perhaps the real result of winning or losing the next 3 games is how far up or down the Braves move in the draft order next year.

By MGL

September 29, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

Jim,

According to braves.mlb.com, the game is on ESPN tonight!!

By journalist jimmy smith

September 29, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

well, dob … while the one to whom you apologized trifled with this journalist again and again, you now have him suggesting to others that this journalist blogged as the stinky journalist - and this never happened. journalist can only turn the cheek so many times. journalist jimmy smith thought you were going to ignore the ugly bloggers … not feed them. now, jimmy smith’s reputation has been sullied. still, an oyster cracker by any other name …

By Bob, journalist

September 29, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

Ben, it’s a mistake to think that the once proud and mighty are no more … good Braves’ fans remain proud of their team and we’re still a mighty group; regardless of what we choose to discuss.

We all have different perspectives and our own agendas and I while think that we should be sensitive to the feelings of others … in this case, it’s what’s important to us that counts … not them.

The Astros would expect no less!

Personally, it’s only important that they give their best but I’d love to see 3 games of 20-0 in favor of the Braves with McCann going 8-8 in each.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 29, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

this just in … the stolen bust of baseball great george brett (stolen from the missouri hall of fame) has been found in a box, in a ditch, alongside a road in camden county, missouri. the tarred bat and hemmorhoid applicator are still missing.

By Lew

September 29, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

If ESPN will cover the playoffs, I don’t think I could deal with the Dodgers. Jon Miller pronouncing FOUR-COLL and BATEAMEE or MEET. No, contemplating this is bad enough.

By Tony Almeida

September 29, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this

Man, DOB, can you imagine how awesome it’d be if you and I were drinking Zima’s with Tim McGraw. That’s my fantasy, man. Yep, you, me, Tim and, of couse, my favorite drink, Zima. Cowboy up.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 29, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

DOB, another great blog. You hit most of it right on the head. I do, however, disagree about the Braves pulling off a sweep. I think they could. The Astros have been so hot they are bound to cool off. Not to mention the Braves have motivation. You were dead on about the Mets losing in the NLDS. The only chance they have of getting out of the first round is if they play the Cardinals. Otherwise, they will be home by this time next week. I wonder if all those Mets’ fans will be here talking about the Braves’ playoff chokes. If the Braves had Hampton last year, they beat the Astros. If the Mets had Pedro this year, they would at least get to the LCS. Also, I agree about the speed. I know Shaun doesn’t. However, I find it ironic that with the exception of the A’s that every other playoff team will have a speedy leadoff hitter at the top of their lineup. Coincidence I’m sure.

I think JS is thinking along the same lines as DOB about acquiring another starter or two. His comments about making the pitching the way it was in the 90’s was quite interesting. The bullpen wasn’t that great in the 90’s but the starting rotation was. Smoltz, James, and Hampton are the only guys with certain spots in the rotation next year. The other two could very well be occupied by new acquisitions.

My prediction is that there will be at least five new guys on the roster next season: one or two starters, two relievers, a leadoff guy, and a bench guy.

By Bob, journalist

September 29, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this

New pole … How many more times will Roger retire?

It appears that the demons have again invaded my computer so should I find myself forced into temporary retirement … it’s been nice to have been able to sup at this table and I hope to be back soon … and to again have the pleasure of your company … it’s a wonderful life, enjoy!

By Stinky

September 29, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this

Jimmy Smith, I apologize for trifling with you. Journalist is not to be trifled with. I also apologize to DOB and the rest of the blog for the comments I made the other night. DOB did not attend K State, and he is not 45. And Kurt Loder doesn’t know nearly as much about Baseball as DOB.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 29, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

not demons - louie sauce. probably spilled it on the keyboard. should not sup at the table with your computer. hope this is helpful.

By Carolina Lady

September 29, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this

Journalist Bob, I’m so glad you enjoyed the recipe! Please remember: do not take the keyboard into the hot tub! :-))

By journalist jimmy smith

September 29, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

Wickman Original Wick Trimmer This 7 inch long, pewter wick trimmer will trim and catch wicks. A special designed tray catches wick residue, keeping your candles looking clean. Made from steel.

wick residue? hmmm….

By David O'Brien

September 29, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this

Zima and T-Mac (Tim McGraw) _ that’s Outlaw Country.

Or as David Allan Coe would say, if that ain’t country I’ll kiss your a*&.

By David O'Brien

September 29, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this

By the way, the little man (Chuck James) is going toe-to-toe with the Rocket tonight. Zeroes across the board through 6-1/2, with only two hits for the Astros and three for the Braves. Feel like I’m watching a Braves game from the ’90s.

By Carolina Lady

September 29, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

Crumbs, jjs.

By Head Coach

September 29, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

you are currently watching the ESPN conspiracy in full motion. Clemens is pitching a shutout aand ESPN refuses to televise the game because its against the Braves. ESPN hates our Braves and you are seeing the evidence(or not seeing it) in getting to watch the Marlins/Phillies.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 29, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this

yes, crumbs. certainly. journalist has just read part three of the four part series by dob. it discusses giles. there is no mention of toe health. probably part four. now, chuck james’ pitch count is getting up. he is a battler. big difference here and last night.

By dadgum

September 29, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Word is probably starting to circulate in Atlanta but there is some talk on talk shows here in Richmond that Soriano may be a fit in Atlanta. While it is pure specualtion until now some credence should be given to such talk. I am not sold on it due to the contract involved but it would sure solve the 2nd base/LF dilemma we have but not leadoff obviously. Depends on other developments for sure. The Nationals are a sorry group and going for total youth now including manager. Dumping Soriano makes sense. But to whom they dump him is conjecture. Frank Robinson was just let go yesterday. Unofficially of course but let go nonetheless.

Gotta believe the Braves will keep Aybar as a backup to Chipper. The man has done a credible job to date with ATlanta and frankly (if you don’t admit it I will)I am not sold on Chipper Jones’ durability any longer especially since he occupies the #3 or #4 batting slot. Chipper will continue to miss 35 games a year for the rest of his playing days. You don’t believe it? Ok …they are posting odds in Vegas. Not really but seriously are you real secure having Chipper as our day in and day out 3rd baseman. You may be…. i am not. Trust me I am hoping but not betting. Regardless, I am real comfortable with Aybar backing up Chipper in any injury situation plus other spots. Given he came in the Betemit trade I see Aybar as perhaps the least likely of Braves to be traded.

Still pulling hard for the Astros. To wit I mentioned months ago that the Astros would be there in the end. Either taking over the Cards or making the wild card. People take note…the last two years they have either made the playoffs or about to do so without Beltran. Granted the pitching is far superior to the Braves. My point is how much are you going to miss Andruw if the Braves get the pitching needed but have to give up Andruw to get it and then make the playoffs. Andruw who? That is exactly what the Astros have been about. The Astros are not in the playoffs yet, of course, but here is one Braves’ fan pulling for them and I gotta think many others.

Oh yeah….forget the Richmond Braves as a farm team in the future. Mentioned on prior blogs they are done. Will probably drop to AA if that in 2008. Look at Birmingham or Charlotte for AAA Braves.

The A Braves are getting ready to unload a boatload of players and recoup money. MOney to buy key spots. Over half of all the pitching will be replaced, old vets will be gone, surplus infield will be gone, ditto outfield. Almost 1/2 of the current Braves roster could be gone. With early signings in Smoltz(option) and Wickman, JS is sending the message to get out of the way or get run over. The train is leaving the station. DOB is right on with his reports of the last two days.

By Head Coach

September 29, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

Dadgum, Soriano is way to expensive and out of the Braves budget. Schuerholz is looking for pitching and a leadoff hitter in that order.

By TennesseePaul

September 29, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

Sweet! GO BRAVES

If Chipper can homer 4 more times I’ll be extremely pleased. Great game from Chuck James. Excellent. And the Cards are on top. Things are looking good. Let’s finish it strong guys.

GO BRAVES

By Carolina Lady

September 29, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

Totally off the subject, but a friend just sent a link to this Bud commercial that aired only once during the 2002 superbowl.
Bud’s Respect Ad if you’re interested.

By MEB

September 29, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

Did you see the look on Phil Garner’s face? That was the same look I had last year after losing to the Astros in 18 innings. I’ve heard that revenge is a dish best served cold… so Phil, have a nice chilled 4-1 whopping. How about a game ball to Chuck James. GO BRAVES!!!

By Calvin

September 29, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

I hope Davies stays far away from next year’s rotation unless he figures it out. James is a definite starter perhaps the no 4 starter.

By MEB

September 29, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss… I really think you must be a Yankee Jackass as a true Southern Jackass has better manners. However, I do believe you to be a human jackass which by definition is a contemptibly foolish or stupid person; dolt; blockhead; or a*.

The best thing about your worthless posts is the scroll wheel. You have soiled this blog long enough. Loser!

By NLCHAMPS

September 29, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

I know the Mets are wounded right now. The wolves(brave fans) are circling the carcass. Remeber, an animal is most dangerous when wounded. I wonder what bull-s-h-i-t I’ll be reading after the Mets win the National League championship. I know it won’t be “Damn I got that one wrong”……AGAIN.

By Carolina Lady

September 29, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

Hi, MEB! That was a good game tonight, wasn’t it?! I really enjoy watching James pitch. He seems to be enjoying himself.

I know everyone has been singing the praises of McCann and I’ll join the chorus! His parents have to be so very proud of their boy! What a job they did raising him, huh? :-)

(hint: SJA et al are being ignored here. They don’t exist anymore.)

By rmf

September 29, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

DOB: Glad you cleaned up the blog — I was about to give up on it.

Went to Thursday’s game. It was sad leaving the park A cold wind blowing in from the parking lot and a sad sappy version of “take me out to the ballpark” being played outside the stadium. Cold weather used to mean playoffs, now it means the end of the disappointing season.

I wondered if I had seen the last of Giles and AJ. Giles is probably already on the block and if Boras really is calling the shots this time, JS will certainly shop AJ. I wondered what it would have been like to have Wick the whole season (would we be in the playoffs; would Smoltz be pushing 20 wins and a CY?) and what the heck happened to Hudson.

Watching tonight’s game, however, brought some hope for next season, James, McCann, Wickman, Chipper, Smoltz, Laroche finally getting his act together and Blaine Boyer will be back. There is a lot there, lets hope JS does a better job than last winter.

Lets hope we knock out the Astros.

Keep up the music talk — I thougth Live in Aught Three was great.

By TennesseePaul

September 29, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this

Man it’s dead in here.

Well, I have this much to say… I watched a good bit of this game on the computer. I came home and it was in the 4th and Chuck James was just amazing. I had the computer up, and the grill hot and the salmon seasoned and ready to go. I love how James stepped up. He lost his footing for a moment, but came back big against the Rocket.
Two years in a row that one of our rookies has handled the Rocket. Last season McCann hit that bomb off of him to take the lead in the game in the NLDS. This season Chuck James tosses a gem to push the ‘Stros further down the pipe.

Some good things about this season have to be mentioned.

By Carolina Lady

September 29, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this

The excitement is too much. zzzzzzzzzzzz

By Head Coach

September 29, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this

Paul , you are a gentleman and one of the few bloggers in that I actually agree with most of the time. Well spoken. I say sweep the friggin Astro’s , stick the knife in , give it a good swist and grin while we are at it.

By Scalp 'em Braves

September 29, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this

Dave:

I would never wish success upon the ‘Stros after what they did to us (or what we did to ourselves)last year. While I admire the Rocket for his grit, I do not want to see him succeed. He has gored us too many times in the playoffs and WS.

I respectfully disagree with DOB’s statement that the Muts cannot survive the Stros starting pitching. Yes, the Stros are hot at the end of the season, as they have been the past few years. While good pitching generally overcomes good hitting, I think that the Muts pitching is good enough, and that their hitting and base running will overcome any opponent in the NL. I also think they will get their butts kicked in the WS, no matter the opponent. Nothing more than a gut feeling on that - I have no stats to back that up.

I’m sitting here watching a “Legends of Baseball” show on ESPN. The featured players are Robin Yount and George Brett. Gawd, what a couple of hard nosed, balls to the wall, gamers. The talk about trading Giles bugs me, because, while he may not have the talent of the aforementioned, he leaves his sweat, blood and guts on the field every play, every at bat and every game. How many others can we say that about (I think both Frenchy and McCann (dubbed Baby Huey, in a very respectful way by yours truly) have this capability as well)? Not many, these days - its all about kicking butt in the last year of their contract to enhance their free agent value - then, the next year, they coast, knowing they have it made. We need a few Robin’s and George’s.

Here’s something I suggest DOB look at and comment/blog on. Between Bobby and Joe T, who is the better manager? No one can deny they have both been great for their organizations. People argue that Joe T is the beneficiary of an unlimited payroll, and I cannot really argue that. On the other hand, Bobby had the benefit of a big payroll for many years while Ted owned the team and has one WC championship to show for it. I like them both (cannot forget Joe’s tenure as a Brave, and I will never forget his coming in and starting off 13-0 to begin the season, taking us to the playoffs, etc - Turner was stupid for firing him 2 years later because we finished second in the division). I’m not a big stat guy, but would interested to see discussion of this issue, based on stats, or “pure baseball” observations.

The show just highlighted Tom “Terrific” Seaver, highlighting how much he meant to the franchise (i.e., he carried the Muts to their first WC championship in 1969). As I hear people here talk about the necessity of trading Andruw, I listen to a Muts fan expressing his surprise, shock and frustation after hearing that Tom Terrific had been traded to the Reds. Yes, it was a different time. But, in the end, every team has faces and stars. Andruw is our face (along with Smoltz and Chipper). We need to keep him.

By David O'Brien

September 29, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

Strong posts, Dadgum and TennPaul. Thanks much for the hardcore nuts-and-bolts baseball stuff. And most of it is spot-on, in my view.

Dadgum, Soriano’s actually done a helluva job in the leadoff spot. If Braves had him, he’s sure be there batting leadoff. But it’s the contract demands that will be impossible. No way can you pay Soriano and Andruw more than $30 million between the two of them annually, and how could you justify trading away Andruw and giving Soriano what will probably be a very similar salary? Even though Soriano’s younger and will probably be hitting dingers a lot longer, you can’t trade Andruw and his room of Gold Gloves, at age 29 (nearly 30) and then give a bank vault of cash to Soriano. I don’t see how that could be done.

Folks, Chuck was really, really good tonight. Walks those two guys in the first, gets help from McCann on the caught stealing, works out of it, then just goes lights-out until the Biggio homer in the seventh. The kid is really special, but that’s pretty obvious by now.

Clemens will be back. Bet on it. No way you retire when you’ve still got that much left in the tank, even at 44. The man’s amazing. With any support at all, he’s 13-3 in his 19 starts. Best ERA in the bigs, and a 1.50 ERA in 23 road starts over two seasons. Stunning.

By flbravesgirl

September 29, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, great list. I would add Smoltz. I think we sometimes take him for granted, just assuming he’ll pitch a good game every time and he usually does. Imagine his record without all the blown saves.

As for the rest: Y’all know McCann is my fave. I took a liking to him when he was called up and he has blown away all expectations. My sister (a casual Braves fan) said it best, ” Your boy’s a really good ballplayer, isn’t he?”

Chucky has been a delightful surprise. He’s pitched great and been really fun to watch. DOB described him once as having a “devious smile” and he does remind me of the neighborhood kid who’s not bad but kind of mischievious, who gets involved in the darndest pranks like putting your dog on the roof or something.

I’m so glad we have BigBob locked up for next year. He seems to have a very positive influence over the rest of the (mostly young) bullpen. They’ll improve by following his lead, I hope. He’s been lights out pitching-wise and seems like a great teammate, the kind of guy we want wearing the tomahawk across his chest.

By David O'Brien

September 29, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this

meant to say McCann helped him out on the caught stealing after the leadoff double in the fourth or fifth

By Calvin

September 29, 2006 11:52 PM | Link to this

Hey Mr OBrien, How are Ramirez and Thomson coming along in their injuries? I know we probably will trade one or both of them this offseason.

By TennesseePaul

September 29, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this

flbravesgirl: Absolutely. I’m bummed I forgot. I mentioned him so much in that post but forgot to deticate a bolded list point to him. He has been outstanding this season. Just reinforcing my Fav-Brave status with the guy. I hope he stays a Brave for a long, long time.

By TennesseePaul

September 30, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this

DOB: I mentioned the Cold War Kids a while back. They are starting to get pretty big. Still an indy band though. I’m going to go see them play tomorrow with Fielding in Costa Mesa and the Detroit Bar. They’re rough around the edges but show a lot of potential. Anyway, their album debuts Oct 10th. I’m pretty sure it’s being released everywhere. They’re getting a lot of press. I think Rolling Stone did a piece on them and I know the news mags and rag tags in SoCal have been raving about them. Anyway, keep an hear out for them. I’d like to know what you think.

By ssiscribe

September 30, 2006 12:07 AM | Link to this

Hey everybody. Sigh … final weekend of the season. I heard the other night, driving home from work, the lineup from the last time the Braves played games in which they were eliminated from postseason contention. My God, check out some of these names:

Lonnie Smith, Mike Bell, Ron Gant, David Justice, Jeff Treadway, Jeff Blauser, Mark Lemke, Jimmy Kremers.

That, folks, was your starting eight in September of 1990. The Lemmer actually played some at third base. Amazing.

Hoping the Braves sweep for, one, momentum into the offseason and, two, to help out the Cardinals. That’s who I’m rooting for now, indeed.

Scribe’s been busy this week with my real-world scribing (hoping everybody out this way quits behaving badly), but I’m also hoping the blog settles down. Believe me, folks, we’ve got plenty to talk about as we go from 2006 to 2007. I think DOB has done a good job setting that up so far, with AJ, Huddy and Gilly being talked about.

I predict the most active, interesting offseason since Trader John came here from K.C. in the fall of 1990. Will be interesting to follow, and talk about.

The Scribe, and the denzines of the blogosphere, and DOB, and BBQ, all abide. Peace.

—30—

By Bob, journalist

September 30, 2006 12:14 AM | Link to this

Well, I haven’t located the Trojan Horse’s hiding place and cloak but I did remove the latest instances of the viruses that it planted so I’ll be brief and return to my sleuthing.

Couldn’t get the game and 4-1 isn’t 20-0 but I’ll take it!

It’s been a long day and I’m much obliged for Jimmy’s humor and My Lady’s howdy! No sauce spilled in the keyboard … just ashes.

I share the sentiments expressed by David O’B regarding the strong posts of Dadgum and 10 Paul … but, I’m not going to so say. I’ve come to expect that from those two and anything less would be a disappointment!

David O’B, there was certainly a different tone to the third of four … maybe I just need to clean my glasses and have a long soak.

Later, I hope …

By David O'Brien

September 30, 2006 12:14 AM | Link to this

Thomson pitched an inning of relief couple nights ago, came off DL basically to let other teams know he didn’t finish season on DL. He’s gone this winter as free agent.

Horacio’s finger was slow to heal and he won’t pitch in these last couple of games. Be interesting to see if Braves bring him back. They might, since he won’t get much raise at all and there won’t be a big trade market for his services.

TENNPAUL, things for the heads-up. I like that Fielding CD. Think I read somehing about Cold War Kids just this week.

Hey, speaking of tuneage, for all the music geeks who’ve engaged in guitar debates here (I’m one of them), I gotta add one more late-comer to that list of incredible guitarists: Derek Trucks. I’d strongly, strongly recommend his latest CD, The Derek Trucks Band’s “Songlines,” for any all all fans of Allmans, Gov’t Mule and SRV. The kid (not really a kid anymore) is just a flat out prodigy with the guitar. Incredible, and his voice has developed into a great blue-eyed soulman wail, really strong CD from start to finish.

He’s Butch Trucks’ son, as most of you probably know. Or is it nephew? No, I think it’s his son. Anyway, it’s awesome.

By tyyosh

September 30, 2006 12:14 AM | Link to this

Back from the game. Great crowd given the season, super game. THAT was Braves baseball.

If the Astros do not make the postseason though, you wonder if they will once again want to give Clemens a half-season part-time job when had he committed for a season they would likely have won the division.

On another note: From the previous blog, the idea of trading Renteria and plugging in an inexpensive good-field, no-hit speedy player (maybe Pena) came up. I may be nuts, but here’s why this might be a better idea than meets the eye: 1) They have enough offense. If they keep Giles and Andruw next year (granted that is a big “if”), they would have 5 positions that project to 90-120 RBI, Giles (60+), probably an upgraded LF, and Pena. Giles could go back to his normal 2-spot.

2) When Dayton Moore interviewed with the Sox, they told him they thought that Renteria actually had around 90 “errors” in his season there in that his limited range/arm cost them so many outs in their system of evaluation. Dayton did not seem to agree, but still that was an evaluation by a team that apparently uses highly detailed defensive metrics. The Braves have used defense over offense at positions before (Rafael Belliard for example) and it was widely believed, if I recall, that this philosophy went hand in hand with the pitching improvement.

3) Adding speed anywhere in the lineup (even at 8) would be good. Some managers (Davey Johnson, maybe others) have explicitly tried to put speed in the 8-spot so that between 8 / stolen base / pitcher bunt there is a stronger scoring chance at the back end of the order.

By Coloradobravesfan

September 30, 2006 12:28 AM | Link to this

WOW… Great win for the braves. But LaRoche has hit the skids. He was doing great for so long. I mean absolute outstanding. But tonight he went 0 for 4 with 4 Ks. Is he Lawhiffer again?

By TennesseePaul

September 30, 2006 12:35 AM | Link to this

DOB: Fielding is working on a second one. From what I’ve heard do far, it’s going to be much stronger. Don’t know the release date though. They are taking a few months off from playing and just focusing on the recording. Maybe mid summer next year. we’ll see. If I can score some samples I’ll shoot ‘em your way.

By flbravesgirl

September 30, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this

DOB, he’s Butch’s nephew. Derek started playing gigs here in my hometown when he was 11 or 12. Being a prodigy, he always got a lot of favorable press from the local paper. Lots of Allman connections in this area.

By Head Coach

September 30, 2006 12:53 AM | Link to this

Yosh , Edgar Renteria is a comeback player of the year award candidate , a five time all-star with two gold gloves and three silver slugger awards. So , dont quit your day job and keep rooting for the Braves !!!

By David O'Brien

September 30, 2006 12:53 AM | Link to this

Tyyosh, strange night to even hint at trading Renteria. I mean, come on, the guy gets a key single and a home run tonight. I know his numbers have slipped a bit in the past two months, but he’s still going to have outstanding totals for the season and about half as many errors as Furcal, though he clearly doesn’t have Fukey’s cannon arm (then again, no one does).

The dude’s a steady player, man, and he’s very affordable ($6 mill Braves are paying him) and a perfect No. 2 hitter. Also, he’s great in the clubhouse, and that’s more important than some might have you believe. No reason to even consider trading him. You keep him for two years and hand it over to Elvis Andrus after that.

By David O'Brien

September 30, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this

Flbravegirl, have you got his latest one? I’d gotten away from him for past couple albums, but this one’s amazing.

That marriage to Susan Tedeschi must be helping him produce his greatest work. And her last album is equally amazing. The bluesiest white chick this side of Marcia Ball.

By David O'Brien

September 30, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this

…and Lucinda Wiliams … and Bonnie Raitt…

By David O'Brien

September 30, 2006 12:57 AM | Link to this

Exactly, Head Coach. we posted at same time.

And I meant keep him two MORE years. Not just this year and next.

By David O'Brien

September 30, 2006 01:00 AM | Link to this

LaRoche in past 13 games _ 9-for-51 with no RBIs and 18 K. Yikes!!

Hey, it’s a slump. Nasty little two-weeks slump. But the numbers are still outstanding for the second half and the season.

By Lew

September 30, 2006 01:15 AM | Link to this

FlBravesGirl is right-He’s Butch’s nephew. I saw him in St. Pete when he was twelve. He’s the same age as my son-27. Good night all. Chuckie sure was good tonight.

By Head Coach

September 30, 2006 01:26 AM | Link to this

DOB , what is the skinny on Chris Reitsma ? He apparently doesnt have the prerequisite six years service time to become an unrestricted free agent. His contract is up at the end of this season(he made 2.75 million in 2006) but he is on the 60 day DL. Am I safe in assuming that once he comes off the DL the Braves will put him on waivers or are they responsible for him until he is healthy ? The MLB clearly states that all players must be removed from the disabled list by the end of the free agency filing period(15 days after the conclusion of the world series). I’m just trying to account for his 2.75 million salary and confusing the hell out of myself.

By Drummerdad

September 30, 2006 01:35 AM | Link to this

DOB Polk Salad Annie here. I think Bob Ley got into LaRoche’s head. The kid’s countenance has not looked the same since they ran that piece. I read somebody in here saying that there’s word that we could go after Soriano. I think it’s a hot idea.
I believe that if we do not trade Andruw before the season begins, he will have very good year. He’ll be motivated.

By Head Coach

September 30, 2006 01:51 AM | Link to this

Soriano is not in the Braves budget. However , whatever he signs for per season in free agency this offseason will be a fairly accurate yardstick for what Scott Boras will be asking for Andruw in 2007.

By Andee

September 30, 2006 02:56 AM | Link to this

Gee, Dave…as a Mets fan, I sure hope Grady Little, Nomar and the gang come to Shea Stadium next week believing that beating the Mets will be as much of a cakewalk for them as you do. (The Dodgers, at this point, are the Mets’ most likely NLDS opponent.) If they do, things should go about as well for them as they have for Bush in Iraq.

Could you elaborate on why you think the Dodgers are the better team, so much better that they can overcome home field disadvantage in this series despite being a much weaker team on the road than at home? That is, other than simply anti-New York sentiment and the usual ad hominem nonsense about the Mets being Ever So Lost Without Pedro (even they’ve done just fine without much help from him since the beginning of June)?

Not that I really mind the Mets being underrated. They’ve usually been at their best under those circumstances. They were underrated going into the season, even by me; I thought they had a good shot at the division, but I certainly didn’t expect them to obliterate it.

But I do think it’s rather hilarious for them to suddenly regain underdog status when no other team in the NL has come close to touching their record and no other team in the NL did any better than tie them in the season series (and none of those teams will be in the postseason). All because we’ve confirmed publicly what Mets fans have known for months, that we can’t rely on “Petey” to be our ace? Something tells me Brad Penny isn’t handling the thought of “only” having El Duque as an opponent with quite as much sangfroid as you are.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 30, 2006 02:57 AM | Link to this

Let’s try to remember that Furcal makes more errors than Renteria partly because he gets to more balls than Renteria.

I know Renteria fit the Braves’ payroll much better, but the loss of Furcal in the leadoff spot with Giles batting second all year probably cost the Braves a wild card slot as much as the blown saves did.

Many dozens of posts ago, Tennessee Paul trashed the Dodgers as a clueless organization with no plan and no loyalty. Well, I don’t know of any organization that emphasizes loyalty above winning. Braves icons like Dale Murphy and Phil Niekro were shown the door when the time came.

And as far as a master plan, I’d say the Dodgers’ plan for ‘06 is working better than the Braves’. Furcal has played almost every game and is hitting .300 now, higher than Renteria, and has settled down on defense. J.D. Drew has 98 RBIs and an on-base percentage 100 points higher than Francoeur. Kenny Lofton has been a hugely pleasant surprise (providing a near-.300 average and more of that run-creating speed Shaun hates so). Betemit hasn’t set the world on fire with L.A., but he’s hit a couple of homers that have helped the Dodgers win games, and every win has certainly been vital. The trade with the Cubs for Maddux stabilized a shaky rotation and helped make it playoff caliber. The same night the Braves traded with the Nats for Daryle Ward, the Dodgers traded with the Nats for Marlon Anderson, who has been an absolute sparkplug for the Dodgers all September long. The Dodgers had huge closer problems, too, and found a solution a lot faster than Atlanta did in Saito (23 of 25 in save opportunities).

Can’t help but notice all the former Braves on the 12-games-over-.500 Dodgers who somehow didn’t fit in with the Braves’ plan.

One more win or Phillies’ loss and the Dodgers are in the postseason. I’d call that a successful plan by any measure.

Other teams deserve some credit sometimes, Braves fans.

By Head Coach

September 30, 2006 03:26 AM | Link to this

Thats great Tom A. Hawk , kudo’s to the Dodgers. But , believe you me if the Braves had a 110 million plus payroll like the Dodgers , they would have signed Wickman before the season started , kept furcal and they would be in the playoffs. the Dodgers master plan had another 30-35 million in the kitty which is hardly fair.

By TennesseePaul

September 30, 2006 03:27 AM | Link to this

Tom A. Hawk: My point was (besides I hate the Dodgers), they turn over their team year after year. For the past 10 years they’ve turned it over. They don’t trust their own system. In the 90’s they had something like 7 consecutive rookie of the years but managed nothing from it. It’s entirely on the front office. In my post I said Ned could change this. He seems to have put the pieces in place to build for the future, but nothing in the last ten years would suggest they have any clue as to what they are doing. And I’ll add my qualifier again, Ned could be what they needed. That and a private owner. Corporate ownership ran them into the ground. Time will tell. They pulled out a helluva victory tonight. That’s for sure. And it appears I might just be getting into the postseason myself. I still hate the Dodgers. Not as much as the Mets though.

[Soriano’s offseason will be a ]fairly accurate yardstick for what Scott Boras will be asking for Andruw in 2007
Very, very true. However, as a staunch AJ supporter, I will have to say this as a caveat. Soriano just became the first 40-40-40 guy in the history of baseball. So he has just put himself a step above AJ. Now I love AJ, but having something like that in your resume puts you in an elite level. And AJ is in an elite level. But I think, if we are to view it this way, Soriano would be the best measure of what we could expect the MAX contract value to be. I’d venture a guess that it wouldn’t be more, and most likely lower than what Soriano is going to get. This all hinges on if AJ resigns in the offseasn with ATL or some other post trade team, or plays an incredible season and hits .330 with 60 HR. Also, if Soriano is suddenly struck with a conscience and takes the minimum offer the union will go nuts and hell will freeze over, and it would throw this post completely out of skew.

By Head Coach

September 30, 2006 04:01 AM | Link to this

Here is something to chew on and dont quote me on these stats because they are not accurate as of yet. Smoltz salary will drop 3 million , if Giles is traded and I can assume that Reitsma , Jordan , Pratt , Thomson , Sosa and Remlinger are gone , add in Wickmans 6.5 million and we have an aggregate savings of 15 million. I’ll go with the low number of 9 million due to the question mark of Giles and Reitsma’s contracts and tell you right now………Schuerholz is going shopping this offseason. He has money to spend , prospects to trade and no major contract negotiations to distract him. He is going to be a very busy man and its going to be fun to see how many rabbits he pulls out of his hat.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 30, 2006 04:03 AM | Link to this

No, it’s not fair, and it never will be fair. But none of the Braves’ fans were griping about the unfairness of it all when Ted Turner and his open pocketbook were running the organization. They just paid and played and won by the rules. So don’t complain now about the big-market teams doing exactly what the Braves used to be able to do. At least, for God’s sake, don’t whine that it’s not fair like a little kid!

If the Braves can’t compete with the big-market teams as you say, why were you so confident in May you’d catch the free-spending Mets and Moneybags Minaya? What made you so certain in July and August you could still take the wild card from the other contenders, such as the dough-laden Dodgers and Cash-and-Coletti?

At least the Braves are now one game ahead of the $15 million Marlins. I don’t know what your excuse would be for trailing them.

Face it: You expected to win this year in spite of the payroll discrepancies because you thought Scheurholz was your ace in the hole. Only this year, a couple of GMs out there outperformed Mr. Built-to-Win all season long. It takes a lot of gall to alibi about payroll now. The Twins, Tigers and A’s don’t have $100 million to spend. That didn’t stop them. The Red Sox spent more than those three teams combined, and they’ll be sitting home with the Braves.

Give credit where credit is due. The Dodgers deserve a tip of the cap for a job well done, not sour grapes. You make yourself seem bitter and bush-league with that act.

By Head Coach

September 30, 2006 04:39 AM | Link to this

Tom A.Hawk , you have got to be the most crass , fake excuse on this blog. Your not even a Braves fan and you call yourself Tom A Hawk ? I make a great point concerning payroll and you attack me ? Come on , what are you ? ten years old or just so damn immature that you cant admit that I’m right ? Ted Turner threw money at the Braves and they won. He sold them and they have been forced to drop players and payroll and of course its made it harder to compete , which again proves my point concerning payroll. Dude, I am damn proud to be a Braves fan , a real fan for thirty plus years. I’ll cut you some slack due to your inability to carry on an intelligent argument wothout resorting to boring childish behavior. You get the last word because I am not going to waste my time arguing apples and oranges with you. Good day to you , sir.

By Bravo Nam

September 30, 2006 05:39 AM | Link to this

1). I don’t care if Braves are 20-140 on the season: you absolutely must play to win every time you go out on the field.

2). Lew You asked about the Braves signing Thomson at one million. If the Braves could get him at 1 million, he would certainly be worth signing for long relief help. Minimum he’ll be looking for though is 3 million, and when the guy is healthy, he’s worth every penny of that. Because of his history of injuries in recent times, I wouldn’t sign him for 3 mill.

3). I can’t believe the bloggers who claim the Braves don’t need starting pitchers. Hudson and Ramirez are gone…that leaves only three reliable and very strong pitchers- Smoltz, James and Hampton. In the offseason, the Braves absolutely must sign not ONE, but TWO starting pitchers…and just gotta have a good set-up man for the 8th inning.

By Najeh Davenpoop

September 30, 2006 05:50 AM | Link to this

I would just like to say that this is the first September I can remember in which the Braves are trying to play spoiler, and it feels terrible. The last time the Braves were not going to be playing in October I was too young to remember it. I can’t even watch the Braves now because it is too depressing. John Schuerholz, please do something to get our team back in the playoffs next year.

And by “something”, I don’t mean trading the best centerfielder in baseball while keeping an injury-prone 3rd baseman who is past his prime and gets paid more on the roster.

By Bravo Nam

September 30, 2006 06:22 AM | Link to this

Paging Shaun Going to the man who knows everything about stats and more- Shaun- how many of the Braves blown saves this year were in the 7th and 8th innings?

Couple of questions to all bloggers

Living here in Viet Nam, it is really hard to get a handle on the Andrus/Escobar situation. The only news I get about them are the brief minor league reports. Given I live here, I never get a chance to see any of the minor league games.

a). For those who’ve seen these two guys play or know a bit about both of them, who is the better player? Escobar has been the only one mentioned in trade talks, but it would be a shame if he is a better player but is seen as expendable simply because the Braves find his whistling habit annoying.

b). If my memory serves me correctly, both Escobar and Andrus are fairly close. If one of them was to be traded, what sort of impact may it have on the other?

DOB My question is about Chipper, as you know him better than any of us. Generally, there is very little love from any of the bloggers on this site towards Chipper. It’s funny that while there are many things about his character that are pet hates for me- sullen, arrogant, never around after a loss- I have a real soft spot for him. Maybe because it’s beneath it all I have a sense he’s not such a bad dude…and maybe in fact could be regarded as Mr. Brave…because of his loyalty and love for the Braves.

It may seem strange, but of the three- Smoltz, A. Jones and Chipper- if either of them was traded, I get the sense that Chipper would be most deeply wounded- maybe I’m full of BS- your thoughts on Chipper?

By NLCHAMPS

September 30, 2006 08:08 AM | Link to this

Here’s a bit of info for all those who think the Mets will not win in the playoffs because Pedro isn’t playing. In july, when he went down with a hip injury, the Mets went 10-7 and when he was out almost a month with a calf strain they went 19-8. For those who struggle with basic math that’s a 29-15 record WITHOUT Pedro. So you predictions of an early exit are as worthless as the ones you all gave saying the Mets can’t win the division….

By Salty55

September 30, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this

NLChamps You have a valid point except ‘tomorrow’s game’ seldom matters in the regular season. That’s the mental burden teams carry in the playoffs…it’s not just today’s game, but the next one, or two, everyone has in mind.

The Mets opportunity lies in the offense…distrupt the opponents’ rotation/bullpen and that changes the playing field.

By Metropolitan Man

September 30, 2006 08:48 AM | Link to this

Wow braves fans, you seem to be torn between beating the Stros or helping them win their division and face the METS. I let you in on a little secret, since the Pedro announcement, most METS fans can care less anymore who we face. Now that we are certain Pedro is done, everyone who has pitched since he has been hurt the majority of the season will have to do what they have done all season, pitch a quality game. A quality game for us is giving up no more that 3 runs in 5 or 6 innings and let the lihghts out bullpen do its work. I was worried for a while becasue the NY papers had a field day almost writing us off. But when I look back on the season I worry not. Pedro is a force, but we have professionals who will do everything to show that he is not the team. Now that I have calmed down I still like our chances. Our team will still get to the big dance, any takers???? Until the end of the season, the Pirates were the 1st NL team to sweep us (couple of weeks ago). Our bats had their tailspin for 2 1/2 weeks, so we feel they went cold at the right time. Just try your best to keep the Stros out but if not its ok, no one is afraid of that lineup.

By MEB

September 30, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this

Carolina Lady… Good morning! The blog had a great night and it was a treat to read and catch up on things this morning. Oh, thank you for the link to the 911 tribute commercial. I thank Budweiser for not running it to sell more beer but as a true tribute to the victims and their families.

I’m also sorry for my small tirade and I shall continue to follow your advice. Fall is in the air and life is too good for such matters. Now baseball… the coolness in the air is a reminder of what a treat the Braves have been for the last 14 years. I’m ready for next season already. GO BRAVES!!!

By SSBN

September 30, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

Is there any way the Braves could wrangle some new money by selling the naming rights of Turner Field? Or is “Turner” an actual commercial arrangement that exists with Time Warner?

By Metropolitan Man

September 30, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

Any takers for Lastings Millege. Looks like the METS players are trying to throw him overboard before he is even on board. They stole his clothes and wrote “Know Your Place Rook”. Nothing like beating up on your rookie to get playoff ready. Now they just diminished this trading chip.

By dadgum

September 30, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

DOB…..in reading your post of 11:38, I don’t advocate trading Andruw and replacing him with Soriano. Sort of a salary for salary trade-off thing. Not so. I opine mainly that the Braves might trade Andruw for pitching. Of course that is all speculation as his scenarios are many as you know. (Oh by the way three solid stories out of the four. Still waiting on a big coup in story four though.)

Agreed Soriano will come with a high price tag but stay with me here. First we say goodbye to Marcus Giles and save a few mil in the trade off, Jordan gone, Thomson gone, Hudson dealt-save millions, Andruw brings the pitching needed and we save 4-5 mil in the trade. You have plenty to throw at Soriano thereby getting the outfield/2nd type player with a better bat and younger to boot. Assuming the Braves aren’t looking elsewhere for leadoff then yeah Soriano is perfect there. I just can’t look at it and say Soriano is replacing Andruw in the salary structure. Of more concern of course is the certain CF dropoff on defense but the Braves can acquire someone that would be efficient there. Also if Soriano could agree to a back weighted contract then all the better. Again not saying this will happen as some teams will outbid Atlanta for his services for sure.

Being a high profile player it is fun to speculate about a Soriano and the fit with Atlanta. Much akin to the talk about Dontrelle and his fit with pitching needs.

Also to some prior post about the Dodgers and their free spending putting them on top. Remember the Braves were accused of that for so many years under the Turner bank-rolled teams. Can’t begrudge the Dodgers, however, it is always more fun getting more out of less like the Marlins. Get good players young and cheap, win, trade ‘em before they make big money, start over. The “how to win under 20 mil” 3rd edition now in stores.

Gotta run to Lane Stadium to watch my Yellow Jackets play the Hokies. Absolutely electric atmosphere in that joint in Blacksburg. The turkey legs are phenomenal. Similar to the Texas state fair ones. Sting ‘em. Buzz out!

By Lew

September 30, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

MetroDude-Well, I guess last night’s game proved the Braves will try to win no matter who they play. Seems they will let the Mets worry about beating whoever they play. So ease up on the Braves. You won your division, now let the chips fall where they may. The Braves can tell you, though, that the playoff road is not always an easy one, no matter what you did during the season. Remeber? You’ve been telling us all season how lousy we are in the playoffs. Have fun, Dude. Talk to me in Novemeber and see if you are still as happy as you are now. You may very well be, but don’t think it’s going to be a cake walk.

By Shaun Payne

September 30, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this

What if Rickey Henderson had Pete Incaviglia’s legs?

In the book I always quote, they look in-depth into the question “What if Rickey Henderson had Pete Incaviglia’s legs?” (Ch 4-1).

They come up with questions like this to answer broader questions, like the one we have been discussing: does speed matter as much as we think?

Now some of you might say they tried to prove speed doesn’t matter. But actually they attempted to answer the question by gathering as much data and evidence as possible. Obviously I can’t reproduce the whole chapter, but here’s their conclusion:

The game would certainly be less exciting, but Henderson’s value would hardly be different. In a typical season, the difference between a great baserunner and a terrible one is significantly smaller than between the best and worst hitters in the league. If Henderson hadn’t stolen a single base in 1982, the A’s would have lost about 2 runs on the season, or about one-fifth of a game. If he’d been only as Incaviglia on the basepaths over his career, he would have contributed about 5 fewer wins in 25 seasons. Henderson was fun to watch, and his excellent on-base skills rank him among the best players of all-time. But the first rule of baserunning is “don’t get caught,” advice Henderson disobeyed more than 700 times. Taking the extra base is good, but getting on base, not getting thrown out, and eventually scoring is better.

By Shaun Payne

September 30, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

What if Rickey Henderson had Pete Incaviglia’s legs?

In the book I always quote, they look in-depth into the question “What if Rickey Henderson had Pete Incaviglia’s legs?” (Baseball Between the Numbers, Ch 4-1).

They come up with questions like this to answer broader questions, like the one we have been discussing: does speed matter as much as we think?

Now some of you might say they tried to prove speed doesn’t matter. But actually they attempted to answer the question by gathering as much data and evidence as possible. Obviously I can’t reproduce the whole chapter, but here’s their conclusion:

The game would certainly be less exciting, but Henderson’s value would hardly be different. In a typical season, the difference between a great baserunner and a terrible one is significantly smaller than between the best and worst hitters in the league. If Henderson hadn’t stolen a single base in 1982, the A’s would have lost about 2 runs on the season, or about one-fifth of a game. If he’d been only as Incaviglia on the basepaths over his career, he would have contributed about 5 fewer wins in 25 seasons. Henderson was fun to watch, and his excellent on-base skills rank him among the best players of all-time. But the first rule of baserunning is “don’t get caught,” advice Henderson disobeyed more than 700 times. Taking the extra base is good, but getting on base, not getting thrown out, and eventually scoring is better.

By Lew

September 30, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this

Dadgum-Blacksburg is one of the nicest college towns I’ve ever visitied. Good team too, at VaTech. Everyone needs to keep in mind with this youth movement thing, that the Marlins only won ONE WS with babies. The first win was with Shef and a bunch of vets. This current Marlins team has potential, but they are still sub .500 and there’s no guarantee they will play at a higher level next year. Young pitching staffs like the Marlins, have a tendency to not all remain great. Look at Burnett, Clement, Penny and Beckett. Hardly a group of over achievers despite their rookie hype and that WS title.

By Lew

September 30, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Shaun-I’ve got to tell you, Dude, I don’t think most baseball fans really care what if Ricky Henderson had Pete Icaviglia’s legs. Enquiring minds probably don’t care about THAT hypothetical.

By Metropolitan Man

September 30, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

Its never a cake walk Lew. I’m hoping the braves take care of the Stros. If your gonna win in the playoffs, you gotta play the hand you are dealt. We are all aware of the braves playoffs stats lately thats why its important to get to the WS and win. Anything other than a world series victory and all of my rants were for nothing. I have dislike the braves ever since they came to the NL east and with good reason. But now its time for METS fans to let the dislike fall to the waistside until the 2 teams pick it back up next season. Besides I’m not sure but I think Soriano would fit well wit the Phils and METS. I just hope if he is not a MET, he leaves our division. That guy can be a difference maker or a missing piece, a la Beltran with Houston. My lady is a Braves fan and even she was torn yesterday while watching the game. She hates the Stros but she hates the METs even more, go figure. Oh, and she is born and raised in Ga. so we have intergrated a love hate relationship.

By Shaun Payne

September 30, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

What if Rickey Henderson had Pete Incaviglia’s legs?

In the book I always quote, they look in-depth into the question “What if Rickey Henderson had Pete Incaviglia’s legs?” (Baseball Between the Numbers, Ch 4-1).

They come up with questions like this to answer broader questions, like the one we have been discussing: does speed matter as much as we think?

Now some of you might say they tried to prove speed doesn’t matter. But actually they attempted to answer the question by gathering as much data and evidence as possible. Obviously I can’t reproduce the whole chapter, but here’s their conclusion:

The game would certainly be less exciting, but Henderson’s value would hardly be different. In a typical season, the difference between a great baserunner and a terrible one is significantly smaller than between the best and worst hitters in the league. If Henderson hadn’t stolen a single base in 1982, the A’s would have lost about 2 runs on the season, or about one-fifth of a game. If he’d been only as good as Incaviglia on the basepaths over his career, he would have contributed about 5 fewer wins in 25 seasons. Henderson was fun to watch, and his excellent on-base skills rank him among the best players of all-time. But the first rule of baserunning is “don’t get caught,” advice Henderson disobeyed more than 700 times. Taking the extra base is good, but getting on base, not getting thrown out, and eventually scoring is better.

Sorry for the triple post. I left some things out.

Anyway, according to their research, which I know is more than I have done and probably more than anyone else has done who weighed in on the subject, speed matters only a tiny bit—even less than many of us would have thought.

Some of you may say, “but speed helped Rickey Henderson’s on-base abilities and other things (let him stretch groundouts into singles, etc.) and kept him out of double plays, which made him an all-time great.” But they also address all this in the chapter and find that it doesn’t make that much of a difference. And it makes sense. I mean, how often is their a groundout which could be a single with a faster runner? Not that often.

By Shaun Payne

September 30, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Lew,

They come up with hypothetical questions like this to answer broader questions, like the one we have been discussing: does speed matter as much as we think?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 30, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

Shaun, what!!!!!!!!!!? If Rickey Henderson had Incavilgia’s legs, he would have been out of baseball 10 to 12 years sonner than he was. I lived in Oklahoma when Pete played at Oklahoma St. and I remember how everyone said how great he was. He was going to be one of the best to ever play. And althoug I was just a kid then, I would always come back with, “yeah, but he’s slow and he strikes out way too much. Those homeruns he hits are off bad pitches from bad pitchers. He never makes adjustments. Ever.” You know what. I was right. That is what scares me about Francoeur. I see a lot of ‘ol Pete in him. But, the differences are Frenchy can actually out run a snail and can actually field a position. Anyway, with all due respect to Incavilgia , he was just not a good player. He was stubborn and lazy.

You can’t say that Henderson would have been as productive with his legs than his own. Pete couldn’t even do what he was supposed to do, which was hit homeruns, on a consistent basis.

I know you are trying to prove your point that speed doesn’t matter….that much. But, unfortunately, it does. Just like how a lineup is constructed matters. It is no coincidence that the teams headed to the playoffs have guys at the top of the lineup who can get on base and have speed to steal bases. Just like it is no coincidence that those same teams have very constructed lineups which put guys into a routine spot and demands they accept those roles.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 30, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

You wanna know how speed affects a game. It affects the defense. Here’s an example. Chone Figgins and Adam LaRoche both hit fairly weak balls into the hole at SS, okay. Does the SS field the balls hit from the two players the same? Does he feel pressure to get to one of the balls more quickly than the other? Does he feel like he has to rush his throw or throw harder on one hit more than the other?

The answer: of course he plays the balls differently. If LaRoche hits one into the hole, the SS knows he can take his time and still throw LaRoche out because he runs like a summo wrestler with pants full of crap. Now, if that same ball is hit by Figgins he is going to rush getting to the ball and throwing the ball, which can cause an error because he knows Figgins can fly and can’t fool around.

Another example. Same two guys hit a ball into the gap in right center in the bottom of the 9th of a tie game. Now, who’s more likely to be able to take second base and turn that hit into a double? Chances are if LaRoche tries he is getting thrown out. If Figgins tries, he is almost certain to make it. How does that make a difference? With a LaRoche you have a runner at 1st. With Figgins you have a runner at 2nd. The defense has to play completely differently. The outfield has to come in a few steps. Steps which could make a difference if a ball is hit over the head or driven into the gap.

One more example with the same two guys. Both get on 1st base. A ball is hit into the deep hole at SS, right? The SS fields the ball. Is he more likely to go to 2nd with the ball or just take the sure out at 1st if its LaRoche. What about Figgins? If he goes to 2nd, which one is he more likely to throw out? Why does it matter. It could be the difference between a double play and a mere 6-3 putout. Or the difference between a 6-4 putout and runner at 1st instead of in scoring position.

Basically, speed matters because it puts pressure on the defense and totally changes the way a defense plays and a pitcher pitches.

By tyyosh

September 30, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

Met Man,

What is the story with Milledge? Is he turning out to be a bad clubhouse guy?

If you face the Dodgers, you will have to match your starters against Penny, Maddux, Lowe at a minimum and a high scoring team that is playing well. I may turn out to be wrong, but I think you will have trouble on this one. Clinching early usually did not work out well for the Braves. Too hard to gear it back up, it seemed.

By Bravo Nam

September 30, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Shaun Rather than discuss hypotheticals that I’m not sure too many people care about, answer something that a blogger has specifically asked your help about. Read my blog of 6.22am.

By David -ATL

September 30, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Nice to see the blog back to form.Shaun,give it up,you lack an understaning of the game, you do have a knack though on spouting useless numbers and drawing inaccurate conclusions from those numbers.

By Metropolitan Man

September 30, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

Yeah Tyosh, Millege was having trouble in AAA and it has followed him to the big leagues. He was involved in a game agaisnt the Richmond braves and took a cheap shot against one of them…may have been Shurholz’s son. Then he did the high five fan thing when he hit his 1st homer. As a fan that was cool, but as player I think he broke an uwritten rule. Anyway he eats by himself and has not taken to the team. He diminshed any trade posssiblities with him already and we dont even know what he is worth. He will be with the Marlins next season in a trade that brings the Dtrain to shea on the 7 train.

By Metropolitan Man

September 30, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Bravo Nam, you rooting for them METS yet???

By Lew

September 30, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Shaun-Dude, this stats thing CAN be taken to extremes. That Ricky Henderson question (even if posed hypothetically to prove a point) is a bit like asking “If you Aunt Tilly had male gentalia, would she be your Uncle George”? I mean, so what? Would you even want to speculate? For example, I’m sure you could find stats to back up a case that Gibby was a better pitcher than Koufax. To me these stats would be meaningless-Koufax was the greatest I ever saw. You just can’t compare apples and oranges except to say that they are both fruit. Same goes with what pitcher was the best or if speed is the major component of scoring runs. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Pointing out hypotheticals like the Henderson/Inky thing seems to me to be the height of nothingness.

By tyyosh

September 30, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

Shaun, If you do go looking for those blown save stats, (although I think it was HK (?) that had logged the year’s games in detail), any way to determine the number of last-inning blown saves where the Braves eventually lost the game? Everyone talks about the Wickman factor and blown saves, but really most of the impact would have been right in that number, I believe.

Bravo Nam, did you ever play on or work for the team? You have some pretty detailed insights sometimes.

By Lew

September 30, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Another point on this speed thing and stats in general. It is virtually impossible to guage the intangibles that RJIB mentions. He is absolutely correct in pointing out the effect speed has on infielders or outfielders rushing their throws. But how can you quantify this into an acceptable or meaningfull stat. You can’t.

By Lew

September 30, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

Tyyosh-I hate to say this after giving Shaun grief, but we need a new stat. A clarifying stat. If a pitcher releives in a game under normal save situational rules, but is not a closer, he can recieve a blown save even though what is applied to him if successful is a hold. We need a BLOWN HOLD stat for non closers. If the reliever blows the lead, but it is in any inning but the 9th, he should not be given a blown save, but a blown hold instead. It would clary that whole situation a lot.

By George

September 30, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

The Braves finally win a game I hoped they would lose. I WANT HOUSTON IN THE PLAYOFFS AGAINST THE METS.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 30, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

RobertJITB has put in all in perspective when he so graphically states, “If LaRoche hits one into the hole, the SS knows he can take his time and still throw LaRoche out because he runs like a summo wrestler with pants full of crap.” RobertJITB is now a journalist.

By tyyosh

September 30, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Lew, it would seem tough though to keep it straight, because sometimes teams might use non-closers to try to close, or use closers for 2 innings, etc. Now if baseball published all the raw data for all this without someone charging by the minute or whatever and let us computer guys have at it…

By Bob, journalist

September 30, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Lew, we may not have an acceptable stat, but those who suggest that speed is not a significant factor in the offensive production equation need to to concentrate more on the woods and pay less attention to the trees, unless of course, they’re looking for Maple syrup … or, at the very least, get a better understanding the import of the “lies, damned lies …” adage.

Of course, how you use whatever speed you possess is probably more important than your raw speed … I was always pretty good at catching up to the ball, batted or thrown, but never was worth a hoot at stealing a base.

By Shaun Payne

September 30, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun, what!!!!!!!!!!? If Rickey Henderson had Incavilgia’s legs, he would have been out of baseball 10 to 12 years sonner than he was. I lived in Oklahoma when Pete played at Oklahoma St. and I remember how everyone said how great he was. He was going to be one of the best to ever play. And althoug I was just a kid then, I would always come back with, “yeah, but he’s slow and he strikes out way too much. Those homeruns he hits are off bad pitches from bad pitchers. He never makes adjustments. Ever.” You know what. I was right. That is what scares me about Francoeur. I see a lot of ‘ol Pete in him. But, the differences are Frenchy can actually out run a snail and can actually field a position. Anyway, with all due respect to Incavilgia , he was just not a good player. He was stubborn and lazy.

You can’t say that Henderson would have been as productive with his legs than his own. Pete couldn’t even do what he was supposed to do, which was hit homeruns, on a consistent basis.

I know you are trying to prove your point that speed doesn’t matter….that much. But, unfortunately, it does. Just like how a lineup is constructed matters. It is no coincidence that the teams headed to the playoffs have guys at the top of the lineup who can get on base and have speed to steal bases. Just like it is no coincidence that those same teams have very constructed lineups which put guys into a routine spot and demands they accept those roles.

First of all, I’m not trying to prove anything. Someone else just arrived at the answer to a question through hard work and research and I was just quoting them.

And, with all due respect, you are missing the point. The argument doesn’t have anything to do with how lazy Incaviglia was or how good a player he was, it has to do with Rickey Henderson being slow.

You can say that Henderson would have been a bad player, but you have nothing to back it up other than what your eyes showed you. At least I provided somewhere where you can look to find some evidence on the subject.

And, for everyone who says this is just a hypothetical: In the chapter they talk about other players besides Incagvilia and Henderson. They just ask that question to make the broader questions (What if a fast player that was awesome in other areas of the game, was slow? Would it make a difference in run production? How much does speed, stolen bases and baserunning matter?) more interesting. They were trying not to write a science book, but a book that would appeal to all baseball fans.

Maybe you shouldn’t scrutinize the research until you’ve looked at it. I posted one paragraph—their conclusion. They provide a whole chapter’s worth of evidence to support the conclusion.

It’s there in black and white—Henderson would have been worth about 5 less wins over his career if he was slow, and the evidence is there. You can give me (or people that look for answers to questions with more than just “my eyes tell me so”) grief, but the answers are there for all to see.

And for those of you who say “stats can prove anything”: It’s not about proving points with stats, it’s about answering questions and arriving at the truth with evidence and common sense more than with pre-conceived notions or by watching a handful of games.

No one can watch every baseball game, but the data can provide insight into what happened in a large group of games and provide a better understanding than just watching 100 games or so in a year or a few thousand in a lifetime. No, looking at the numbers are not perfect and it has its limitations, but it’s much better than saying “I know this player is good at this or bad at that because I’ve seen him in a handful of games.”

By Tom A. Hawk

September 30, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

Way to take the high road, Coach. You remind me a lot of an Auburn fan — puffed up with pride and arrogance while you’re winning, screeching about the unfairness of it all whenever things don’t go your way. Never any credit to the opponent for outplaying you or outthinking you. Yeah, I’m the 10-year-old.

And, by the way, Coach, there’s no one on the blog more crass than you when you know you’re wrong.

No, I’m not a Braves fan. I’m a baseball fan. I enjoy the sport without all the chopping and chanting and whining and paranoia you are prone to through your modest intelligence and affiliation with one organization. There’s a red-and-blue haze clouding your thinking, and your “great point” is just so much sour grapes.

The Braves with their $90 million payroll and Schuerholz at the helm can’t compete with the big boys? Cry me a river, Coach.

Tell me: How can this team possibly bounce back and compete next year, with only $90 million to spend? The Dodgers and Mets and Yankees will spend more. It’s futile. Cancel the season.

And give back that 1995 World Series trophy while you’re at it. It was bought, not won. The Braves were free to spend what they wished back then, and it gave them an unfair advantage.

Ditto the 14 straight division titles. Most of them were won with mercenaries playing for the highest bidder. No honor or accomplishment in that.

“Built to Win”? Ha! More like “Bought to Win”?

Does this attitude sound familiar to you, Coach?

By Tom A. Hawk

September 30, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Shaun, stats can help prove a lot of things. They also can be mainipulated to support specious points. There’s a reason that quote about “lies, damn lies and statistics” is so famous. It’s also so true.

So stop boring us to death with your bias against speed. Those of us who have watched and love baseball know that a mix of speed and power in your lineup is always preferable to power alone. Just ask any Braves fan.

By ncscoots

September 30, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

Then, Robert, re LaRoche’s speed, you may say the same thing about McCann. Or Pujols. Or Delgado. Or pick any darn player not named Reyes or Icbiro. The fact remains that LaRoche (or other similarly “slow” players) get from first to third or second to home on the same hits that other, “speedier” players would, in almost all situations. In only a few instances would your thirst for speed make any…difference…whatsoever. Oh, and your game-changing, defense-affecting, outfield-rushing blazing speedster is on base how many times a game? Oh, say three at the most, about 10% of a game’s plate appearances? Uh-huh, I see how that completely changes things. Folks, I’m not against having a fast leadoff guy, never have been, but some of you guys think that adds some overwhelming dimension to an offense, and it…just…doesn’t. Unless you’re 80s Cardinals with 6 of ‘em in the lineup, artificial turf to play on, and a staff ERA under three. Braves don’t meet those criteria, now or 2007, so I’d prefer to see one of them standing at first when the next pitch hits the seats, rather than sitting in dugout after a caught-stealing.

By tyyosh

September 30, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Sabermetrics (stats) seems to have contributed a lot to the current baseball philosophies, so surely there is a place for people to bring them up without being “tomahawked”. JS and the Braves had, IMHO, the best perspective on it (I think I saw it in his book). Rather than slavishly rely on the stats, they get them, but then they feed them to great baseball people who use the stats as one of the inputs to help them make experienced human decisions.

We just saw an example of how speed can win a game last night. The human and strategic subtleties of this cannot be seen in numbers, I don’t think:

1. Orr used his speed to beat out a high chopper.

2. Clemens had to exert lots of energy keeping him close. (He got frustrated, too, because he thought he had picked Orr off.)

3. Orr took off on a hit and run (this may not have happened if a slower runner were at first). (I think - I was watching the batter, but) the shortstop moved toward 2nd.

4. Renteria’s line drive just eluded the shortstop as he was unable to reach back. Orr reached 3rd.

5. Grounder to 1st - Berkman was charging to scoop and throw home, and let it get under his glove. We’ll never know, but he might have made the play if a slow guy was running from 3rd and he did not feel pressure to rush.

6. Middle infielders now come in to cut off the next run from 3rd. Andruw’s grounder up the middle goes through for a hit - maybe it was a DP if they had been back.

All started because Orr barely beat out a chopper with his speed.

By Bravo Nam

September 30, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Metro I’ve only got one team…and only ever will have one team! The Braves. But, I actually commiserate with the Mets and their fans this year coz I feel they may very well suffer the same fate the Braves have in recent years- play well but lose after the first round (divisional playoffs). Lately Mets fans on this blog have been a bit more palatable than a number of other bloggers- sad but true.

Shaun Well, I won’t bother asking again. I asked the question about blown saves on the last post and this one, only to be ignored. You’ve drawn quite a bit of criticism from some bloggers, and I was just trying to show you some love by showing you some appreciation in your stats skills…by asking a question about the Braves that is not hypothetical but relevant to the here and now.

Unfortunately, it seems that you only have one agenda- your own- and not interested in a dialogue with other fans unless it suits your purposes. Maybe my question was not stimulating enough for your brain…or obtuse enough!

You obviously have an intellectual sense of the game and ability to mesmerise with your stats…it’s just a pity that your following of the Braves, baseball and exchange with fans on this site is devoid of any heart.

tyyosh You’re absolutely right. On the surface my question about blown saves seems pretty straightforward, but actually it is more complicated than it looks. Sometimes it is the closer who blows a save in the 8th, more often it is a set-up reliever. Given Shaun always gives us 101 angles on things, I was hoping he could’ve put some real energy into something relevant right here and now and dissect it all. My motivation is that while it is very clear that the Braves needed Wickman, I believe a closer observation of the situation would also reveal that we’re almost as badly in need of a reliable bridge to Wickman- some hard data may support that feeling.

No, I have never worked for or had any direct association with the Braves. I lived in Atlanta from 1974-77: when I was a little boy I used to obsessively follow them by myself (as I did the Falcons, Flames and Hawks…although probably the Braves a bit more). I’m originally Australian, have lived all over the place, but never returned to the States. I also lived in Boston after Atlanta. But…refused to have anything to do with the NE teams. I have fond memories of Atlanta…and will never follow any other team. I never hear the matches, don’t ever see them live, and only once in a blue moon get to see them on ESPN- the internet has been a boon- nearly all my knowledge is from the internet.

The reason it may seem as though I have a good feel for the Braves is that I’m the opposite to Shaun- no brains but all heart. So, any interview I see, any transcript I read, and any article I get my hands on- I try to intuitively get a sense of how everyone’s feeling about the state of the game, the clubhouse, each other, and their opponents. It’s amazing how much a sense of things you can get from reading between the lines. I don’t have any inside knowledge- only what I read- hence feel a bit isolated out here- blog is great- feel like it’s the Braves family I’ve never had the chance to have.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 30, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

You’re right, tyyosh. Stats can help, but they also don’t tell you a thing sometimes, as you deftly illustrated with Orr. Being “slavishly” devoted to them or manipulating them to support a flawed argument is what I’m criticizing. Then you and Shaun twist my comments so you can make out like I’m totally anti-stats. Nope.

Sometimes folks here try to make an argument when there’s none to be made. Stats often help. There, I said it. Clearly.

But speed is good, also.

By Bravo Nam

September 30, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

tyyosh Absolutely agree- stats are useless unless you can translate them back to the game meaningfully.

Meet the Family Sometimes this blog infuriates me, sometimes it stimulates me, but mostly it gives me a good laugh…we’re like a dysfunctional extended family who have to try and get on with each other, but often don’t do it successfully, a bit like those two “Meet the Family” movies.

It intrigues me what JS and BC are planning- there’s no doubt they’re concocting moves and players we haven’t even dreamed of- will be a very interesting offseason.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 30, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

Bravo, Bravo Nam! You’re my kind of fan!

Mets fans have been more polite lately because the prospect of payback looms ever larger. They’re polite to the Braves fans now because once vanquished, a foe is to be appeased rather than scorned.

By Bob, journalist

September 30, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

Where’s The Grinch when you need him … he’d colorfully say that the importance speed is neither black nor white but gray.

Hopefully this submits … the computer’s been locked up for 8 minutes!

Later … I hope!

By Metropolitan Man

September 30, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

No Tom, we are polite becasue we have accomplished nothing. We want a WS ring or bust. Anything less in METS fans eyes will be a failure. Screw a division title, give me a wild card berth and a WS appearance and that is a succesfull season. Even if the wild card team was under .500, making the WS is the only goal. Besides, we will prevail and go far, we always do.

By tyyosh

September 30, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

With Shaun, though, as with all of us, there are some things he is pointing out that make sense, and some that probably do not in the real world. For example, the statistical correlation of OBP and wins makes sense, but so does our innate craving for speed in the lineup. The common middle ground: For speed to be effective, it has to contribute to a batter’s high OBP (and then of course the subsequent danger/damage to the opponent) or it will not be nearly as useful. The old Braves had speed guys with low OBPs who did not make a big difference (Albert Hall, Rowland Office, for example). I have not thought about this in detail, but I think I would prefer average speed guys with high OBP over fast guys with low OBP. I think we would see a lot more sustained “crooked number” innings that wear down opposing pitching staffs (like the Yankees are doing with 9 (!) regulars with OBP above .360, although they do have speed mixed in there).

By tyyosh

September 30, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Met Man, Speaking as one fan, I can tell you that 13 years of sleepless nights after each loss that ended it all never felt like anything but failure. There was never a feeling of “oh, well, no big deal, at least they got to postseason.” The ring is always the thing. But after losing, the only thing left is to see what was good, celebrate those good things that did happen, and hope for the big one next year.

By Bravo Nam

September 30, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

Tom A. Hawk Yes, that occurred to me…but I chose not to bite…I had been rather scathing of the Mets fans on this blog previously…so was intent on giving a positive without a ‘…but’ taked on the end.

But Metro, now you can’t get away with that. No Tom, we are polite because we have accomplished nothing.

Well Metro, how does that explain your showponying, baiting and niggling of Braves fans on this blog until just recently?! You hadn’t achieved anything back then either.

Tom and all of us are a bit wiser, my friend- you now have your tail between your legs, are worried that all your boasting will come back to haunt you, and really don’t like the Mets chances. It’s revisionism I hear…anyway, I won’t be too nasty…we have been getting on smashingly well just recently!

Almost 2 am in the Nam and will hit the sack- by the way I hope some of you got to see the Australian Rules Football GF on cable back there in the States- it was a cracker of a game.

By TennesseePaul

September 30, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

we are polite becasue we have accomplished nothing
MetMan, I appreciate the politeness. Just wish the other posts under Mets guises were polite about it. They haven’t been for the most part. But don’t sell yourself short, you have accomplished the first step to making your goal. Can’t win the WS unless you get in the playoffs.

By tyyosh

September 30, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

TAH, I was not trying to twist your comments; it seemed like you were hammering Shaun pretty hard for just trying to talk about stats, that’s all. But I understand that everyone has his/her style and yours is blunt, so no big. (Sorry all for multiple posts, I have to start combining them better.)

By Metropolitan Man

September 30, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Not true Tom. I mean we wrapped the division up a while ago. I can say woohooo, the METS finally snatched the braves crown or woohoo, the METS saw to it the braves did not have a .500 season. We did that through 162 games. Now the wait is over, we are concentrated on the playoffs. All the pro METS sites have us in the same predicment with or without Pedro. So trust me I’m not scared but unlike you, how much division winning can you cram down 1 persons throat????? We are very much ready to hoop and holler, we just dont know what team to direct our insults at yet, I think we beat the braves to death.

By Metropolitan Man

September 30, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Besides if I kept throwing this division title around, I’m no better than braves fans who keep throwing “14” at me.

By Metropolitan Man

September 30, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

Next year when the season is a fresh 162, we will be at each others throats all over again but hopefully a little more tactful. I enjoy this game too much and having likeminded peopl who love the sport also is enough to keep us civil. Even to Bravo Nam.

By Lew

September 30, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Tyyosh-When I mentioed the Blown Hold stat awhile back, what I had in mind would be like where a starter doesn’t go the required five innings and the official scorer eventually decides who wins the game-I think the Blown Hold could be judged the same way-awarded after the game. It would make it easier to see which section of the bullpen was responsible for what. I still like the idea of starting pitchers going 7 or 8 innings, which makes the probability of these scoring situations mere moot points in most cases.

By tyyosh

September 30, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Lew, I see your point now. That way, only one blown save would be allowed per game - much easier to track instead of multiple opportunities per game.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 30, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

No problem, tyyosh. No offense. And I guess I did go a little over the edge with Shaun, but the guy is just so relentles, with no regard for dissenting opinion.

He’s passionate, though. That’s a great quality in a baseball fan.

So here’s to stats!

In moderation, of course.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 30, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

And no offense to you, either, Met Man. If the playoffs started today, I don’t see any NL team capable of keeping you out of the World Series, even without Pedro.

You better root hard for the Braves today, though, because the Astros can take you if they get in.

Of course, I didn’t think the Dodgers could beat the mighty Mets in 1988, either, but as it turned out, they outpitched, outhustled and outplayed you in a thrilling seven-game series. So who knows?

If you’re old enough to remember that series, then I’m sorry for stirring up painful memories.

October baseball, with or without the Braves, is the coolest thing in sports!

By Robert

September 30, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Checking in from the road -

Gotta hand it to The BIG Donk - His team thoroughly dominated a AA pitcher and a seriously hurt pitcher on back to back nights

By journalist jimmy smith

September 30, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

louie sauce can wreak havoc with a computer. may be the cayenne pepper, not sure. now that robertjitb is a journalist we have enough journalists on this blog for dob to become a columnist. jimmy smith will be in touch with the folks at cox enterprises on monday. now, speed … this journalist thinks speed is very important to winning. a good example was given by tyyosh about “p” player pete orr’s speed in last night’s game. also, speedy “p” player tony pena can make a difference with his speed. what is it about “p” playes that makes them fast? oh, pratt, never mind. no one answered this journalist’s trivia question about which former braves player dislocated his shoulder while waving a runner to the plate. journalist will give a multiple choice hint: gerald perry, sonny jackson, or terry harper. all had bad shoulders during time with the atlanta braves. now, pie … pumpkins are everywhere. look for a pumpkin pie at a bakery near you.

By MetsfaninATL

September 30, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

All I have to say is: Lets Go Mets!!! We can still go all the way even without Pedro.

By MetsfaninATL

September 30, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

All I have to say is: Lets Go Mets!!! We can still go all the way even without Pedro.

By MetsfaninATL

September 30, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

All I have to say is: Lets Go Mets!!! We can still go all the way even without Pedro.

By MetsfaninATL

September 30, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

All I have to say is: Lets Go Mets!!! We can still go all the way even without Pedro.

By MetsfaninATL

September 30, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

All I have to say is: Lets Go Mets!!! We can still go all the way even without Pedro.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 30, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

I guess my using my eyes to judge things is wrong, uh, Shaun. What?! If Rickey Henderson were slow he wouldn’t have been anywhere near the same player. He is the stolen base king for goodness sake. He had more speed at 45 than most guys do at 25 and that is what made teams even give him a look. Yes, he could hit but he could never hit as well as he ran. I don’t need stats to prove my point. I love stats as much as anyone but stats can be misconstrued. At one point in this season right after the all-star break stats would have told you that Jason Marquis was the best pitcher in the NL becasue he had the most wins. Now, who here thought that at any point in the season Marquis was the best pitcher. Fact is if Henderson was slow he would have never been around as long as he was.

ncscoots, you are right about the fact that the situation only arises a few times a game. You are, however, wrong when you say that almost any baserunner will get from 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home. I think there are many times that a ball is hit through the left side that you would never dream of sending a guy like LaRoche home whereas you wouldn’t think twice about sending a Figgins or Reyes. Not to mention I used the example of a ball being hit into the gap. You can’t tell me that speed doesn’t make a difference. Speed keeps you out of double plays, takes extra bases, and forces the defense to rush plays. I’m not saying LaRoche is useless because he is far from that. I’m saying that every team has to have a player or two that can change a game with their speed.

Let me ask you guys this question. Does speed matter on defense in particularly in the outfield?

By ColoradoBravesfan

September 30, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

Tyyosh

You deftly explained how speed helped the brave to (2) runs in last nights game. But what about the (3) homeruns? For speed to get those (2) runs, it required a high chopper, a hit and run, an error and a base hit through a drawn-in infield. That’s a lot of things that have to go your way (luck?) for those two runs. I guess I would rather have the (3) homeruns.

By David O'Brien

September 30, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

I’ve not checked the posts, but I’m sure you guys have seen this by now. If not, let me be the bearer of news: Pedro is going to have rotator-cuff surgery. He’ll be out until midseason next summer.

By tyyosh

September 30, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

ColoradoBravesFan, Ideally we would have both, not either-or. One hard thing to watch is how a home run-only attack seems to wilt in postseason as the air gets colder and pitcher quality gets better. Some guys with high OBP (ideally fast, too) at the top would be so hard to defend 4-5 times through the lineup.

By Lew

September 30, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

I might have missed someone mentioning it, but it has been announced that Pedro Martinez is going to have rotator cuff surgery and will be out until next June at the least.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 30, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

coloradobravesfan, earl weaver, right? play for the 3-run homerun. more earl weaver from sigourney weaver now visiting with jimmy smith (great cook, no complaints at this time): uncle earl said:

“Team speed, jiminy christmas, you get blankin blank little fleas on the blankin bases getting picked off trying to steal, getting thrown out, taking runs away from you. You get them big blankers who can hit the blankin ball out of the ballpark and you can’t make any blankin mistakes.” - Earl Weaver explaining his preference for power in response to a question from a fan on a Baltimore-area radio show as to why the Orioles did not get more team speed. cleaned up for this blog by journalist jimmy smith.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 30, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

The problem with relying on the homerun is that its harder to hit a homerun then it is a single, double, or draw a walk (unless you’re Francoeur). Even the most prolific of homerun hitters only have homeruns accoutn for 30% or so of their hits. It is much more probable for a speedy hitter to get on base and create a run than it is to hit a homerun. Now, with saying that, that is why you have to have a balanced lineup. You have to have the leadoff hitter who can get on base and steal one if necessary. You have to have the 2 and 3 hole hitters who can hit for average and power. The cleanup hitter who can crank it out of the park. The five hole hitter is usually a guy who can hit for average and power and provide protection for the cleanup hitter.

The problem with a lineup full of homerun hitters is that while they may hit a lot of homeruns they also tend to strikeout a lot and hit weak grouders and flyballs. And those weak grouders and flyballs occur a lot more frequently then the homeruns.

By Bob, journalist

September 30, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, you left out at least one blankin!

When I shut down 4 hours ago, the dominating debate was about speed … methinks that folks who scoff at the value/importance of speed must be fishermen who have out of worms … I can’t imagine anyone thinking that speed is relatively unimportant … I can think it, regardless of its validity.

I personally think that preoccupation with the long fly ball has soiled, and is killing, the sport … but, more importantly, I think it takes attention away from the proper utilization/management of the resources that you have (speed, power, pitching, defense) and the taking advantage of opportunities as they arise … which, from my perspective, is what determines whether you win or lose on a consistent basis.

Speaking of killing and private agendas, how many folks are going to have to die before something is done about the lethal weapons they use as bats.

Square groves, soft bowling balls, artifical grass and shattering bats … bah humbug!

By Head Coach

September 30, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Speed doesnt slump. You cant keep it off the basepaths and it wears down the defense of the other team , not to mention the fact that when Jose Reyes is on base Paul Lo Duca see’s a steady diet of fastball’s and slider’s. Basically the Mets offensive attack has been devastating all season long because they have Jose Reyes 64 stolen bases , 52 walks , .354 OPB , .301 AVG and the Braves entire freaking roster cant match that output and your hearing this from a die hard 30 year Braves nut. The Braves have virtually the same homerun power and run production the Mets do , minus the speed and leadoff production that Reyes has produced. In my opinion the Mets have had the most balanced offensive attack all season with both speed , power and a lights out bullpen. Unfortunately their starting pitching is going to kill them in the playoffs.

By Head Coach

September 30, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

Jose Reyes has 64 stolen bases all by his lonesome. The entire Braves roster has a total of 51.

By Matthew

September 30, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

Interesting, albeit off the subject, point about Laroche. Someone help me with this, because OPS is a relatively new stat for me to notice. For Laroche, his OPS this year is .909. That’s pretty good, isn’t it? Can someone give me a good OPS to compare him? His career OPS is .839.

Can someone offer a little more enlightened persepctive? Shaun, 10Paul, anyone around? Thanks.

By TennesseePaul

September 30, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

Matthew: A great player has an OPS over 1.000. Most of the time this is from a .400+ OBP and .600+ SLG. .800+ isn’t bad, but it’s not the most unbelievable level either. It’s a productive level though. Less than .800 and you’re looking at a pretty unproductive player. .900 level is a solid level of production. Obviously, the higher the better. OPS isn’t the end all be all of stats, but it’s a pretty informative stat for judging offensive production.

By Head Coach

September 30, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

That should have read .354 OBP , On Base Percentage. Matthew , OPS is a baseball statistic which is calculated as the sum total of a player’s on-base percentage and slugging percentage combined. the basic formula is OPS = OBP + SLG .

By Bob, journalist

September 30, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this

Matthew, I’m not sure that you can attach a logical meaning to the sum of two indexes when there’s ovrlap in the two but I figure LaRoche’s .909 pretty good.

It’s 12th in the league among players with enough appearances to qualify … and 3rd on the team behind Chipper and McCann though neither of them have enough appearances to be included in the National League rankings.

By MiaBchBravesFan

September 30, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this

Man, Bobby Cox must miss going to the playoffs because he is sure managing like it, which is to say bizarre.

Top of the ninth, tie game at home, and he brings in Wickman after he pitched last night?

Bobby, I luv ya, but that’s why you have only one World Series ring.

By Matthew

September 30, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

Thanks all. So let’s carry this thing to its logical conclusion. Looking at Laroche’s sum totals for the year, minus a game and an inning, here are Laroche’s stats against prior years’ totals:

[http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlbindividualstats_player.jsp?playerID=425560]

Hope I linked that correctly. I see improvement in almost every aspect of his game. Judging on these numbers, has Laroche fully matured from the names he picked up in the season’s 1st half (LaWhiff, ADDam, Laroach, etc.) Do we now have a good fit at 1B for the next several years? Laroche may be the most improved player on this team.

What do you think?

By Matthew

September 30, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this

I am confused now. Did Laroche hit a homer or did he not? I can’t get the game on TV. MLB.com showed that he hit a solo shot earlier in the game, and now they have taken it off. What happened?

By The Grinch

September 30, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

Bob, what was that first sentence about? That sounded way too much like math. Speaking of which, UGA’s oldest uninjured quarterback looks (and plays) like he’s about 16. Any chance they can pick up Jeff George through free agency? Man, they’re gonna get slaughtered when they play a real team, and maybe even vs. Tech. Congrats on the road win in Blacksburg.

By Bob, journalist

September 30, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

With regard to the confusion, I’m with you, Matthew! My computer’s still messed up though I’m on the Net … but I can’t get WGST on MLB.com … first it said 2-2 with Laroache’s homer then 4-1 in the 9th.

Gerogia beat Virginia today … Techs that is! The last time I looked the dawgs were having trouble with the dawgs.

Maybe you had to be there to understand … but methinks it’s acceptable behavior to say “To Hell With Georgia!” (UGA) in polite company … on Saturdays … any day really … during the fall, winter, and spring months!

I do hope the KU fellow is going to be okay …

By Bob, journalist

September 30, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks Grinch … I was just thinking about you … sent my regards in what I just posted.

No preoccupation with the math … attempting to analyze the OPS, within itself, is bemusing at best … all I know is that like most hitting stats, excluding strikeouts and GIDPs, the higher the number the better.

Are the dawgses still scoreless?

By Salty55

September 30, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

DOB Rock Chalk, Jayhawk…your guys just went up on the Huskers…lil’ over 6 minutes to go.

Scoots Provided no letdown vs. WF next week…Ga Tech looms as a biggie. Go Tigers!

By Bob, journalist

September 30, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

Before getting too upset … can you imagine pitching John Smoltz in a totally meaningless game … now, at least there’s a reason to play the game.

By dadgum

September 30, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

Great game in Blacksburg today by the Jackets! Team is for real. Lane Stadium is as loud as any stadium anywhere and it is very intimidating. Tech silenced the crowd early with a great game plan. The defense is on fire except for when the secondary decides not to play. Looks like it will come down to the Tech-Clemson game in Death Valley for the coastal division title.

Congrats to Houston!! NOw if we can just get them into the playoffs. If Houston can win tomorrow coupled with a St. Louis loss then Monday is for the crown. Anything can happen. Houston is much more dangerous than St. Louis and since the Astros were the Braves whipping boy for so many years here is hoping they win out. Hey, nothing wrong with pulling for another team when the Braves are out of it. Let’s hope Smoltz doesn’t go tomorrow. Actually he shouldn’t go tomorrow but he may talk Bobby into letting him pitch.

Pedro getting an 8-9 month rehab prognosis is bad news for the Braves. The Mets will surely go after the biggest free agent or trade for a pitcher the Braves will sorely need. Most likely Pedro won’t pitch at all next year or maybe ever again who knows. The Mets given their fragile pitching don’t want the Braves to get the upper hand in pitching so look out.

By Head Coach

September 30, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

Dont blame Cox or Wickman for what happened in the ninth tonight. The Astros hit one ball through the infield , two errors by the defense , an infield hit and a fielders choice led to three unearned runs. But, its all good. Smoltz is gonna put the final nail in the Astros coffin tomorrow.

By Bob, journalist

September 30, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this

Wasn’t that something else … Dadgum, they looked as good as I’ve seen them in a long time … early today and early against ND!

By dadgum

September 30, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

My bad…if the Astros play for the divison crown it will be Tuesday should the Astros win tomorrow and St. Louis loses two in a row.

Looks like the Mets get San Diego. Gotta think the Padres have the upper hand there with their pitching.

By The Grinch

September 30, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, your ‘hawks were pretty fiesty; congrats on a good game. Bob, my Dawgs look very lost indeed. Both freshman QB’s have talent, but…whoo. Thank the good lord for defense and poor officiating, or we’d be down by more than three. The overall talent and depth will show in the second half, though. I hope.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 30, 2006 10:55 PM | Link to this

Congratulations to Braves West! They’re going to the playoffs. They’ve won 40 of 59 since the Betemit trade. Maddux pitched seven innings of three-hit ball today to help nail down at least the wild card spot.

Mad Dog and glory!

And Derek Lowe should start Game One of the Division Series, probably against the Mets (provided they don’t waste him tomorrow in a game they don’t really need). Oughta be interesting!

By dadgum

September 30, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

My daughter goes to Va Tech and even she admmitted Tech deserved to win and it was about time. Ball beats UVA and VT in the same year. Same thing happened in 1990 but this isn’t a national champ team. Colorado cheated that year taking 5 downs to score a touchdown to remain undefeated. I still am mad that the sportswriters voted Colorado #1 after the evidence was presented that should have negated the td on the last play. Regardless, we know who the real undisputed national champ was in 1990 - GEORGIA TECH.

Oh and by the way…what is with the replay officials this year. Man that next to last VT touchdown wasn’t a touchdown. Granted it was 3rd and they may well have punched it in on 4th but the ball was clearly without any question down at least 1 foot short of the goal line by every camera angle. Also how can the umpire be looking right at the holding on Richardson. I mean the dude horse collared him to the ground. NO call. Then we come back and get a pass interference call for a ticky tack touch on the receiver. The officials seemed to do everything they could do to aid VT in the last 10 minutes of the game. I am not whining glad we won but play the game back from that point and you will see what I mean.

Got a new BBQ joint in Richmond. Actually two…Benny’s on Forest Hill Ave. and Buzz and Neds just down from the Diamond. If you are in Richmond check them out. Great food!

Going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd in Charlottesville on Tuesday should be good. They will be in Atlanta this weekend. I will post a report on Wednesday.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 30, 2006 11:13 PM | Link to this

It’s been 16 years, dadgum. Probably be healthier to let that one go.

By David O'Brien

September 30, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

Grinch, they’re feisty, but damn that hurts. Could’ve beat Huskers for second year in a row after not being them for 35 years or so. And the second overtime loss in three weeks for the Jayhawks. Damn damn damn.

By The Grinch

September 30, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this

Dadgum, the officiating in this Dawgs game may be the worst I’ve ever seen (and yes, we’re ahead and the calls have gone about 50/50). I mean, it’s just pathetic. The ESPN2 announcers are just laughing in disbelief about every three plays. Thank god for our running game; the Dawgs are ranked about 6-8 spots too high in my opinion. The QB situation is horrible.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 30, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this

DOB, great piece about Chipper. I don’t know if you have checked out the post or not. I think if some team (an AL team) is willing to take Chipper and give us true value in return, then I’m all for it. But, in my opinion the situaton with Chipper is totally different from the ones with Andruw and Marcus. Chiipper is a guaranteed Brave for the next three seasons while Marcus and Andruw are only guaranteed through next season. Do you agree?

By dadgum

October 1, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this

Grinch man…..not sure who the Dawgs have at QB tonight but Joe Cox is a good one. Came out of the Independence High program in Charlotte with WR Massaquio. Joe Cox has never lost a football game he has played. His Independence HS team has now won 98 in a row(5 straight NC titles) which started prior to Chris Leak with his brother CJ Leak. Joe Cox is good and the sooner UGA makes him their #1 guy the better off you will be.

Just went over to the GT blog and everyone is just railing on the officials. Absolutely total inept officials in every phase. Trust me if the game had hinged on the last 5 minutes in particular they would be given a leave of absence. Whatever the refs are drinking prior to the game they need to stop.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 1, 2006 12:13 AM | Link to this

BREAKING NEWS I’M RETARDED….OH THE HUMANITY!

By The Grinch

October 1, 2006 12:28 AM | Link to this

Dadgum, Cox and Stafford alternated the whole game. Cox came in singlehandedly last week and pulled out a come from behind win (when Stafford struggled) and Peter Gammons said Stafford will one day be the first overall pick in the NFL draft. UGA ain’t never slack on talent, problem is they’re both freshmen. Both made awesome pays and bad mistakes. We pulled out an SEC road win, and both QB’s will no doubt have all sorts of highlight reels in the future (and maybe even the near future). I’m just worried about Tennessee next week. I’m proud my team has so much talent at QB that these guys came in 2 and three on the depth chart this year (Joe T. III out with an ankle injury in first game…5th year senior). Next year and the year after look great. This year’s gonna need a lot of smoke and a b*** mirror. Stafford’s got one of the best arms I’ve ever seen, and Cox is smarter and has more touch. We’ll see. Woof, woof, woof!

By Lew

October 1, 2006 12:53 AM | Link to this

Go DAWGS-That one was too damn close the first half. Good night.

By Calvin

October 1, 2006 01:09 AM | Link to this

Mr OBrien, I was shocked to see the news of Pedro. I know he has had shoulder problems in the past. That puts a huge dent in their rotation next year. They almost have to bring back Glavine now…don’t they?

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 01:14 AM | Link to this

Robert, agreed unless you mean Giles and Andruw are guaranteed to be back next year. I’d say strong chance Marcus is traded. Very strong. If I had to guess, I’d say about 60-70 percent chance Andruw is back. But still don’t have a good feel for that one, either way.

By chopthis

October 1, 2006 01:19 AM | Link to this

Dave and other classic country-lovin’ bloggers:

There’s a story in Friday’s Nashville Tennessean that reports the Tennessee Supreme Court has finally ended nine years of legal wrangling and issued a ruling that clears the way for the release to the public of a series of recordings of Hank Williams radio shows from 1950-1951 that were sponsored by Mother’s Best Flour. I’ve heard bootleg copies of some of the shows, and they capture Hank in his absolute prime. The music is astounding. The shows also spotlight an artist who’s happy and funny and really enjoying himself — a far cry from the tragic figure he’s made out to be.

Anyway, I can’t link up to the story because my ancient computer won’t allow it, but you can read it if you’re interested at www.tennessean.com. I’m counting the days until these golden discs show up at the record store. Some sweet Tuesday soon, I hope…

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 01:25 AM | Link to this

Calvin, yes, I’d say Tommy has them by the shorthairs now. Time to renegotiate that option next year into a couple of years or more money.

And I don’t see how they’re saying 8-9 months for rotator cuff, at age 34. I bet we don’t see Pedro until the very end of next season, if at all.

By The Grinch

October 1, 2006 01:30 AM | Link to this

Chopthis, the way you’ve completely dominated, steamrolled and redefined this blog to your own coustom-tailored specifications over the last couple of months (especially after the delay rule), I would have guessed you had access to the pentagon. An ancient computer? Hmm. Ok. ‘night, all.

By chopthis

October 1, 2006 01:39 AM | Link to this

Didn’t come back to feed a certain blogger’s rampant paranoia. Just thought Dave would be interested in the good news. Good luck!

By Calvin

October 1, 2006 02:26 AM | Link to this

Is Brian Jordan retiring? I know earlier this year prior to him getting hurt, he said that this will be his last year. However, a couple of TBS games ago, I heard one of the announcers say that Jordan wants to come back and play. Surely, LaRoche will be the everday 1st basemen and I am going to assume LF will be occupied by either Diaz or a leadoff hitter, maybe Roberts.

Btw, Mr OBrien, I really like that four part series on what has to be done to rebuild the Bravos. Good Stuff.

By Head Coach

October 1, 2006 02:58 AM | Link to this

Here is a better idea. John Schuerholz makes a call to Tom Glavine , offers him a one year 10 million contract and the Mets lose both Pedro and Glavine. Which gives Glavine the chance to win his 300th in a Braves uniform and leaves the Mets with little to no pitching , leaving the Phillies and Marlins as the only competition.

By Bravo Nam

October 1, 2006 03:38 AM | Link to this

DOB Given you mentioned you hadn’t had a chance to read most of this blog, and given your last article on Chipper, I’ll repost a question I asked you on this blog earlier:

“DOB My question is about Chipper, as you know him better than any of us. Generally, there is very little love from any of the bloggers on this site towards Chipper. It’s funny that while there are many things about his character that are pet hates for me- sullen, arrogant, never around after a loss- I have a real soft spot for him. Maybe because it’s beneath it all I have a sense he’s not such a bad dude…and maybe in fact could be regarded as Mr. Brave…because of his loyalty and love for the Braves.

It may seem strange, but of the three- Smoltz, A. Jones and Chipper- if either of them was traded, I get the sense that Chipper would be most deeply wounded- maybe I’m full of BS- your thoughts on Chipper?”

Stats I actually have a great appreciation for them…and personally probably like checking out players and teams stats too often…but nevertheless stats only tell part of the story…and they must be used in context.

Ward This guy has been awesome since coming over. Don’t know what his stats are since the trade, but I’d bet he’s probably hitting .600 as a PH.

Metro

Some classic quotes from you: I can say woohooo, the METS finally snatched the braves crown or woohoo, the METS saw to it the braves did not have a .500 season. Actually, you did. Only about 500 times or so…until the reality finally dawned on you that getting through the playoffs may not be so easy.

Besides if I kept throwing this division title around, I’m no better than braves fans who keep throwing “14” at me. Ahhh, I doubt it was my imagination- I’m sure many of the Braves fans on this blog could back me on this point- you actually kept “throwing this division title thing around” for 2 months!

Anyway Metro Boy, we’re still friends, that’s all that matters.

By Bravo Nam

October 1, 2006 03:44 AM | Link to this

Head Coach With Pedro now being out up to a year, the Mets are going to offer Glavine the kitchen sink. If I’m the Braves, no way I’m paying Glavine 10 mill, net alone the 12-13 mill the Mets will probably offer. He had a pretty good year this year, but really tapered off as the season wore on…and in the last couple of years has been plagued with inconsistency.

By TennesseePaul

October 1, 2006 04:16 AM | Link to this

DOB: Just got back from the Cold War Kids show. Such a good time. They leave it all out there, that’s for sure. And they have a hand full of really good cuts.

I had to leave to the show at the top of the ninth… A run had already come in. I’m glad to see they battled back to within one. This team has a lot of fight in them. Mainly, the offense has been fighting the pitching. But, they did a pretty good job tonight. A win would have been better, but this way means Smoltz takes the mound. Couldn’t be a more fitting end to this season. I hope he gets the win tomorrow. That’d be 16 on the year.

GO BRAVES

I’m going to the Dodger playoff games. If they are playing the Mets, I’ll cheer for the Dodgers. Otherwise, it’s the other team…

By SSBN

October 1, 2006 05:37 AM | Link to this

Head Coach and Bravo Nam, the Mets have a team option of 12 million dollars that jumped to 14 mil when Glavine reached 180 IP. The buyout is 3 million. It looks like Tommy is getting the last laugh on the Braves, unless he lays an egg in the postseason.

By Head Coach

October 1, 2006 06:35 AM | Link to this

Its actually a mutual option between Glavine and the Mets. You guys are correct , the Mets would be wise to cough up whatever he wants. At any rate , Schuerholz is going to have roughly 10 million to spend this offseason , plenty of prospects to trade and no major contract distractions. He is in the drivers seat , metamorphically speaking.

By Bravo Nam

October 1, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

SSBN and Head Coach I had no idea Glavine will be on 14 mill. He’s staying in NY then, coz I can’t see the Braves prepared to offer him anything even close to that…and NY are going to be so desperate to keep him that they’re not going to blink on 14 mill (even if G does lay an egg in the PS).

The news about Pedro is good news for the Braves- coz they really struggle against him.

By Lew

October 1, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Morning Bravo-Though I guess it’s not morning for you. Do you (or anyone else) have any idea of the contract stutus of most of the Mets? I think Floyd’s contract is up and I know about Glavine’s option, but how about the rest of them. I know they’ll be looking for pitching, but what other holes will they have. MetroDude? Do you know?

By dadgum

October 1, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

Bravo Nam….not sure the Pedro thing is good news. To my prior posts, I suggest that the Mets will be increased competition on the pitching market this off season due to Pedro’s demise. Frankly, not sure the Mets even expect him back at all. Tough to deal with a competitor touting 30 mil in his bag when you have maybe 10. I look at the Pedro thing as increasing the likelihood that Andruw could get traded to even the playing field to acquire said pitching. Just my take…and btw I agree with most of your points over the last few months. DOB’s take on Marcus and Andruw are pretty much right on. Andruw is too tough to call but Marcus, I believe, is gone and he won’t be the only one.

By Metropolitan Man

October 1, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this

Morning all bloggers. Yeah Lew, Floyd is in an option year and wont be back. Glavines option will definately be back because of the new Pedro news. Steve Traschel might be back too becase of the same reason. Kaz Matsui is already gone and we have a releif pitcher out of options who wont be back, he was release last week. So we will have the same squad as last year with some different arms, left fielder, and possible new second baseman. Now Bravo Nam, you claim that I shoved this 1 division win down your throat. I dont think so. When the METS finally clinched, braves fans were looking for us to clown and wnated to know where we were. Then they started for about a week and didnt let up. But all I wrote was a funeral procession (funnny stuff at the time) and just wrtie how great the METS were and how bad the braves were, not touting this 1 little tile. (especially compare to 14, 12 in our division). So when the METS win the WS this year, then you may need to take a sedative or give me one becasue its gonna be bonkers for METS fans seeking out any braves fan (yankee fans too). Now this can all be done in good fun if you are true fans, but some kiddies may not know how to. I’ve taken 12 lumps since the braves arrived in the NL east, so dont be afraid when we get even. Like I said 162 is over, its Playoff time finally! So you may hear me say how great the METS are and how much I dislike the braves, and maybe a pinch more!

By Metropolitan Man

October 1, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Ask the Stankees what do they think of their current run of titles. I know they would trade every single one for a WS ring. Just ask Steinbugger. And look for LOastings Millege to be in a Marlins uni next year, just a hunch. Pedro, Pedro, Pedro. You brought us instant noteriety, and the free agents followed. To tell you the truth Pedro’s job with the METs was accomplished last year when he brought the fans back to Shea and the tube. Not that he wont be missed but the fact that he made the last 2 season more interesting for stale METS fans speaks volumes. So in the words of Napolean Dynamite…….VOTE FOR PEDRO!

By Lew

October 1, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

DOB-Another interesting article, this one about Chipper. You discuss value vs. performance. Thought these numbers might put this into perspective. Chipper will make $11 million next year. He hit .324 256 HR and 85RBI. These players made between $11-12 million this year. Aramis Ramirez .292 37 117——Mike Sweeney, Royals .258 8 33—-Jim Edmonds .257 19 70—-Miguel Tejada, Orioles .331 24 100—-Jason Kendall, A’s .295 1 50——J.D. Drew, Dodgers .283 20 100—-Only one player in Chipper’s salary range had a higher BA (Tejada), only one had more HR (Ramirez) and 3 had more RBI (Ramirez, Tejada, Drew). Draw your own conclusions, but I think the fact that Chipper merely played 105 games shows that he is still producing at the level and above the level of others making his bucks. Edmonds, Tejada, Drew and Kendall all made in excess of $11 mil, too.

By Metropolitan Man

October 1, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Chipper hit 256 homers and had only 85 ribbies?????? Only he can accomplish that. (Sarcasm for the slow witted)

By Metropolitan Man

October 1, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Chipper hit 256 homers and had only 85 ribbies?????? Only he can accomplish that. (Sarcasm for the slow witted)

By SSBN

October 1, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Lew, Chipper also recieved a 4 mill signing bonus this past year as part of the restructuring of his contract.

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Bravo Nam, sorry I missed your earlier question on Chipper.

First on Ward _ you’re right, he’s been phenomenal and would’ve really helped if Braves had made postseason. Great pinch-hitter who’s hit .348 (8-for-23) for the Braves, including a stunning 8-for-14 with a homer and seven RBIs as a pinch-hitter. Bobby loves him, so don’t be surprised if Braves try hard to re-sign him, and he likes it here, likes the guys and Cox. He’d be a great weapon to have on the bench next year, tell you that.

As for Chipper, you’re right about him, too. I’ve said numerous times here that if people ever had a chance to sit down with every Braves player and have a beer (or cup of coffee, or whatever) with them, Chipper would be one of the guys they’d most want to hang around with more often.

He’s a really good dude, real good sense of humor and very sharp. I KNOW that doesn’t come through in interviews on TV or radio, but that’s only because of his slow drawl and the dumb questions they usually ask him. The guy’s sharp, knows the entire game as well as anyone, and is outspoken and candid. All good qualities in my book.

He’ll bust your balls if you write something stupid or something he disagrees with or if you wear clothes he doesn’t like or whatever, but he does it with a smile and to your face, not talk behind your back like some guys or ignore you as a means of getting even. He answers all questions, he’s straightforward, and he’s easy to deal with, once you pull him away from his interminable card games or watching NASCAR or football in the players-only lounge.

Plus, he makes all that money but drives a pickup and a freakin’ Dodge Magnum, or whoever makes that odd-looking ride, and eats at LongHorn Steakhouse.

He’s still a small-town Florida redneck, in a good way.

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Oh, and that is very good news about Hank’s live recordings.

By Metropolitan Man

October 1, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

I dont get it. You guys will have opportunity after opportunity to beat the METS. So why oh why are you guys not rooting for the braves to beat the stros? They took your playoff hopes 2 years in a row. 2005 was a real heartbreaker so with that fresh in the minds of players and fans, I dont see how you could consider letting them win so they can get beat by the METS with the season on the line.

By Metropolitan Man

October 1, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

BEAT DA STROS, BEAT DA STROS, BEAT DA STROS!!!

By Lew

October 1, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

SSBN-Yes, but they never count in the annual salary and I was talking about next year, anyway. I just used players making $11-12 mil this year. MetroDude-Thanks for pointing that out. I, of course, meant he hit 26HR this year. I sure hope Smoltz beats the Astros today. I don’t want the Mets to win, but that should happen on their own, no matter who they play, they will have to play well to beat the Mets. If Smoltz were to win today, his 16 wins would tie him for the NL lead. Just think if we had a bullpen this year. What a difference those 6 blown saves for Smoltz might have meant. Probably a Cy Young at age 39 for a 22-9 record.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 1, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

old maid. it is hard to pull chipper away from old maid. maybe if chipper was buying … still, hard to believe. must take dob’s word for it. and what does one talk about when with chipper?

By TennesseePaul

October 1, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

First Inning: Braves produce a run despite a .000 OPS for the inning. Not too shabby.
Francoeur needs only one more Homer for 30. I hope he gets it.
Smoltz is pitching well. A lot of strikes any way. They need to make sure this guy gets the W.

GO BRAVES

By Metropolitan Man

October 1, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

LETS GO BRAVES, LETS GO BRAVES, LETS GO BRAVES!

By The Grinch

October 1, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

Is there a more frustrating athlete in professional sports than Mike Vick? He just completed a pass 50 yards in the air to set up first and goal, then immediately follows it (ON FIRST DOWN!)with an interception returned 97 yards for a touchdown. Now, going into halftime they’re down 10-9 istead of up 16-3. Amazing.

By Metropolitan Man

October 1, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Vick is too short, he cant see over the defense.

By Bravo Nam

October 1, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Lew Yes, about 12 hours ahead of you here- 1.15am. Sorry…don’t know much about the Mets…but noticed that Metro answered your question. I do agree with your last post- really disappointing that Smoltz had so many blown saves- otherwise would’ve been in big time for Cy Young consideration- just another disappointment in a year of disappointments.

dadgum Yeah, good point. While the Braves won’t have to face Pedro for a while, which is good news, the flip side is that we’ll be in even stiffer competition on the free agent market with the Mets. If we’re wanting a SP Number 2, only way I think we’ll get that calibre is through trade.

Metro Boy OK, OK- getting technical- of course you weren’t silly enough to actually say: Ra, ra, ra- the Mets have 1 title to your 14- but the bottom line is that all your dancing on our parade at the time suggested as much. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this point- don’t be too sad though- next year the Braves will be back at number 1 and all of this will be moot!

By the way, I think you’re wrong that all of us Braves fans don’t want the Braves to knock off the Stros- the great majority of fans said that they still wanted the Braves to win- so do I!

DOB Thanks a lot for answering those questions. Appreciated the info and figures on Ward- good stuff- I guessed he was hitting over .600 as a PH- well, I suppose .571 is close enough.

It’s good for the fans to read the stuff you had to say about the players- thanks for the insight on Chipper. Hopefully it’ll cast him in a more positive light for some fans. People get down on him coz of his perceived attitude and rash of injuries in recent years, but what would be downright scary is seeing neither his bat nor AJs in the lineup. AJ is clearly a class above Chipper as a fielder, but when he’s well, he’s a much more consistent threat than AJ. If both are healthy, I’d prefer to pitch to AJ in a clutch situation than Jones…having said that, AJ has been the Braves Mr. Clutch in the past two postseasons.

Just had a serious hurricane cut a swathe through Vietnam, with a number of deaths and many injuries. Keep the people in your thoughts and prayers. And me too- I have to head right into its wake tomorrow- going to central and southern Vietnam to visit all my vols in the field (all of whom are Americans)- be away for two weeks- catch y’all on the blog when I get back.

Must say- not too many positives about the Braves not making the playoffs- but the one good thing is that unlike previous years, when I have to head into the countryside and out of the way places on my tour of posts- I’m not going to be frustrated to the core not being able to follow the Braves fortunes in the postseason on TV or internet…catch everybody in a few.

Bravo Nam over and out

By Metropolitan Man

October 1, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

The Brew crew is beating the larussa’s, keep up the good work bravos. Who would have ever thought that one day, and I mean 1 day, that I would root for the braves. Now i’m convinced anything can happen.

By The Grinch

October 1, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

DOB appears to be a french fry short of a heart-attack. Once you get to his age, its not recomended to engage in marital relations.

By Metropolitan Man

October 1, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

You stay safe Bravo Nam. Hope you guys arent waiting for FEMA. Take care and let GOD’s hands be with you. Oh and when you get back, the METS should be in the WS….LETS GO METS!

By TennesseePaul

October 1, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

WAY TO GO BRAVES!!!!
Down go the Astros. How you like them Apples!

SO, let the offseason begin!

By MEB

October 1, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

Thank you Atlanta Braves, not for this disappointing season, but for the hope that all will be right with the world next year. This Braves team has what it takes (I believe) to be a major contender for many years. This season with all of its low points also contained many wonderful and memorable moments. Truly looking forward to what is in store for this team next year.

DOB keep up the good work and I can’t wait for your reports in the coming months about our Braves.

GO BRAVES!!!

By MGL

October 1, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul - Really enjoyed your comments on the blog during the season. Hope you hang around during the off-season to comment on the transactions. Let’s have a great 2007!!

By The Grinch

October 1, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Now Stinky’s posting as me; nothing else you see today will actually be mine. You have absolutely, positively GOT to be the biggest f-ing loser to ever draw breath. Talking to DOB about getting some; a subject you’ll never likely be qualified to talk about. Grinch out.

By Bob, journalist

October 1, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Heck, I thought David O’B was talking about me and it was Chipper Jones all the time. It’s good to hear that of Chipper and I sure hope every word is on the mark … but I’m not totally sold.

It’s good to close it out with a win … an objective that will only be realized by one of the playoff teams … and 10 Paul, payback is sweet unless you’re on the receiving end!

David, everyone … thanks for sharing!!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 1, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

It wasn’t the season we were all hoping for but it has been a pleasure to be on the blogs discussing baseball with fellow Braves’ fans. I hope to continue the discussions throughout the postseason and offseason. Lets hope the Braves make the right moves.

I do believe this team will be alright. I think they showed a little something with the way the hung in until the end and never laid down and felt sorry for themselves.

Wasn’t it good to knock the Astros out of contention instead of the other way around.

By Bob, journalist

October 1, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Before signing out, to all the good Met fans who have visited the Blog and participated in some good discussions … may your team do themselves proud, and thank you too for contributing to our perspective!

By elbravox

October 1, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

click

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 1, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

SJA, since the season is now over, will you go into hibernation or continue to grace us all with your presence?

By ssiscribe

October 1, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

Well, this is where the run ends. Whatever. We’ve known for weeks that the odds of the Braves played beyond today were slim. Still, I’m proud of how hard the team played in September, especially the final week, after being eliminated.

It sure does seem strange not getting ready for the postseason. Last time this happened, I was a senior in high school, we’d just landed the Olympics and I was driving an old Chevy truck.

Damn, I miss that truck. But anyway …

Will be, as I’ve said recently, the most interesting offseason in JS’ tenure in the ATL. Did we see Gilly’s final game in a Braves’ uni today? Who will comprise the starting rotation in 2007. And what of Andruw and the complex, complicated, difficult situation the Braves are in regarding the star center fielder.

Only made it to one game in person this year, a win, and Little Scribe’s first game in person. Spent five days in Lake Buena Vista in mid March working, so I saw a few games down there during that time. It’s been a tough year, knowing that with everything that happened, if this team had a closer from day one, the Braves would’ve (in my opinion) won the wild card. We never recovered from the 3-20 stretch, and we never got over all the blown saves. Simple as that.

Still, the guys on the club played hard. I’m proud of them for that. Makes me proud to put on my old school lid (won’t don the Thrashers’ lid till Thursday night). Time to get ready for 2007.

I’ve really enjoyed this blog and the interaction in it. My life has changed a great deal during this season, changes for the better, being back home and with family and no more crazy weekend schedules and all that. I’m made checking in on here part of my daily routine. Thanks to all of you with whom I’ve conversed the past few months, whether we’ve disagreed or agreed on certain points. I’ve enjoyed the conversations all the same. Bless you all as the season concludes.

Thanks, DOB, for chiming in with your insight. From somebody who knows what it’s like to write a game story under deadline, for you to chip in and give us the skinny straight from the box, that’s awesome. And the BBQ and the music talk is great, too. Looking forward to your dispatches from the offseason. Fine job on coverage this year, man.

Into the offseason we go … eight play for this year’s title, but the task of bringing the 2007 World Series to Peachtree Street starts right here, right now.

Go Braves. On this fine October evening, the Scribe abides. A streak dies. A new streak awaits its beginning.

Peace.

—30—

By robdawg06

October 1, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

So I guess the Braves are going to trade away our great CF Andruw Jones in the offseason so its rumored ? He’s in his prime right now and AOL-Warner is pinching pennies again. He ,made the best defensive play I ever saw robbing a homerun against the Giants a month ago. He took less money to stay with the Braves on his last contract. The Braves say their goal is pitching (which is badly needed too) so Andruw’s money may go there. You have to take away the 2 runs per game Andruw saves on defense now. I’m sure pitcher’s ERA’s are going to be higher with more games being lost. I could go on but you get the message. Resign Andruw and then add some pitching. Doing just one won’t make a difference.

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

Grinch, Scribe, Nam, Jimmy, et al _ thanks much.

Jimmy, I wouldn’t lie to you, man. Got no reason to. I mean, if I wanted to kiss up to Chipper, i wouldn’t call him a redneck, right? Just telling you he’s a good dude. Believe me or don’t, that’s cool. No worries.

Grinch, trust me, I knew immediately that wasn’t you. And even if it had been, wouldn’t be a problem _ I’ve been accused of a LOT of things, but one of them ain’t being overweight. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it’s just not an apt description for my dumb a**.

We’ll try to update you guys soon. I’m not going to shut this thing down, believe it. Goal to keep it going strong in the dead of offseason, prove we’ve got a hardcore crowd that’ll blog here anytime.

Later

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

RobDawg, it’s not in any way a given that Andruw’s being traded this winter. That could go either way, and he told me today that he’ll be back next year, for what that’s worth. He was definitive about it (again, for what that’s worth).

By JJMB

October 1, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

Dave, I have to say, excellent job on this site, blog, or whatever it is. Either you have too much time on your hands, or you really enjoy commiserating with the unwashed masses, or something in-between.

Where in the heck is the playoff schedule? I can’t find it.

By JJMB

October 1, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this

Oh, and I hope the Muts lose out 0-3, and go 0-162 in 2007.

By robdawg06

October 1, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

I hope you are right DOB. Andruw’s good for .280 40 100 in an off year. If its a good year the hrs and rbi’s could be 55 & 120. He’s never hit for a high average. The biggest two reasons we lost this year (other than the Mets buying an all-star team) was injuries to Chipper,Davies,& Hudson and not getting a closer until it was too late. Maybe Mike Hampton (Paul Byrd Jr.) who has sit on the DL drawing 6 million will earn some of his money next year ???

By Stinky

October 1, 2006 10:05 PM | Link to this

Grinch, you’re not relevant enough for me to impersonate. Get over yourself.

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

Rob, only thing I gotta disagree with you on is the part about him hitting .280 in an “off year.”

His averages the past six years: .251 (2001), .264 (2002), .277 (2003), .261 (2004), .263 (2005), .262 (2006).

He doesn’t hit .280 any more in a good year, much less in an “off” year.

By flbravesgirl

October 1, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this

Nice game to wrap up the season with. Frenchy sure finished with a flourish. DOB, loved the mention in your article of the St. Louis fans doing a “thank you Chop” when it was announced our boys beat the Astros. I’ve met quite a few Cards’ fans in spring training and they’ve all been nice folks.

Regarding the way Chipper is perceived by some fans, when I’ve seen him in spring training (which is admittedly a more laidback atmosphere) he’s interacted with the fans a lot. Talking to people, signing ‘til Bobby chases him onto the bus, etc. I was impressed by the amount of time he gave the fans, more than anyone else on the team.

Metropolitan Man, I’m sorry to hear that Lastings Milledge isn’t fitting in. He’s from this area and a lot of people have high hopes for him. He didn’t have the greatest reputation going through high school and I was hoping he’d grown up some since then, but it doesn’t sound like that’s been the case from what you say. He’s young, hopefully he’ll straighten himself out with a little more maturity.

By Head Coach

October 1, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

Revenge is a dish best served cold , bye bye Astros. The braves will win the division in 2007. Hudson , Andruw and Chipper will be back. Giles will not. Write it down in your little black book , Coach gave you his personal guarantee on October 1st 2006 that the Braves will be back in the playoffs in 2007.

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this

in fact, Andruw has hit .280 only once in his entire career _ .303 in 2000, when he had a career-high 36 doubles, six triples, 36 homers, 104 RBIs, career-low 100 strikeouts, .366 OBP and .907 OPS, which was his highest OPS until last year’s .922.

(This year, he finished with an .894 OPS and a .363 on-base percentage that’s his highest since his .366 in 2000 and again in 2002. He had 82 walks this year, up from 64 in 2005.)

OK, that’s approaching Shaun-ian stat overload (kidding, Shaun; it’s cool have a Sabermetrics guy on here. I’m not nearly as big an across-the-board believer in it that you are, but I do recognize that a lot, an awful lot, of that stuff, is very relevent and telling. And I’m of the believe that OPS is a far more important stat than batting average, though I realize it’ll never catch on as much with the average fan).

Francoeur’s .263 average isn’t nearly as problematic for me as his .290 OBP, but I’m sure both will rise with experience. We’ve all gotta keep in mind, they can’t all be as advanced at 22 as McCann. “B-Mac” is the rare exception; Francoeur’s more the rule for that age.

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

Sorry, my fatigue’s showing with the typos in that last post. belief, not believe. anda couple words dropped, but I think the meaning was clear.

By robdawg06

October 1, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

.260,.270.or .280 come on DOB and I even said he never hit for a high average… You know they said Wade Boggs could have hit .275 40 100 every year but he preferred slashing the ball and hitting .340 18 70.

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

By the way, Chipper finished with a 1.005 OPS this year and McCann a .960 (phenomenal for a catcher, much less a 22-year-old catcher).

LaRoche finished at .915 after his two-week slump at season’s end dragged it down a bit. He was 10-for-54 (.185) with one homer, one RBI, four walks and 20 K in his last 14 games, after batting .366 with 18 homers, 47 RBIs and a 1.200 OPS (yes, 1.200) over his previous 52 games.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 1, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

DOB, any idea on who the Braves would target via trade or free agency. Has anyone given any indication?

By robdawg06

October 1, 2006 11:15 PM | Link to this

You know Chipper’s my man ! To me Chipper,Andruw,& Smoltz are the Braves. you used to could add Glavine & Maddux to their list. Traitors both. Lovers of mo $$$ !!!

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

RobDawg, you happen to see ESPN’s Hometown Heroes thing tonight? While some of the choices for five finalists were laughable _ no Dale Murphy for Braves, no Andre Dawson but a Livan Hernandez for the Expos/Nats _ the winners were mostly great choices and the show was exceptional. What I would’ve given to have seen Sandy Koufax, Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Nolan Ryan and Hank play on a daily basis. Wow, it’s just so incredible watching video of those guys.

Nolan and Hank were still going strong when I was a kid, but so few games on then, and we didn’t have a ballpark near Greenville, N.C. Had to be satisfied with the Game of the Week and This Week in Baseball highlights.

By robdawg06

October 1, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

Here’s one for ya DOB. Ask an umpire, ok ?

Why is it that when a ball hits the dirt at home plate its immediately replaced with a new ball but a ball can be hit thru the infield,land in the outfield,be thrown back to 2b and hit the dirt there and still be used to pitch with ?

I’d love to know the answer on that one. Either they should toss the base hit balls too or not toss the home plate balls. A scuff is a scuff.

By David O'Brien

October 1, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

No, haven’t heard a thing yet on free agency. But shouldn’t be too long before start to hear some rumors, etc.

By robdawg06

October 1, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

I did not DOB. I was playing Playstation 2 Raw vs. Smackdown with my 7 year-old son. The top 5 Braves all-time to me are H.Aaron,P.Niekro,D.Murphy,Chipper Jones,& John Smoltz. Eddie Matthews,Warren Spahn,and Andruw Jones follow them.

I saw N.Ryan pitch his last spring training game in Port Charlotte Fla. He grunted aloud on EVERY pitch (like Monica Seles in Tennis does). Scott Leius (Twins) hit a homerun and they lost 3-0. Next at bat Ryan nailed Leius in the back with a fastball…

By JJMB

October 1, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

Ted Williams. 1943, 1944, 1945 all spent flying in the USAA. He was 24, 25, and 26. What Ruthian numbers he would have had.

Best hitter of all time, arguably.

By robdawg06

October 1, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

Hey, I bet Monica Seles neithbors wonder if she’s playing tennis or having sex next door at night ? Lol. I asked Skip Caray that ball scuffing question on his radio call-in show a couple years ago and he said “They don’t discard all the balls that hit in the dirt at home plate.” I was like “What ? Obviously you aren’t watching that from way up in the booth ?” He said “Next caller.” He’s an idiot. Sorry, Skip worshipers.

By Stinky

October 1, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this

So this is how it ends, and none of you intellectually challenged peons will even put up a fight? How uninteresting.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

October 1, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

You know, I love ESPN but I have really began to believe they hate the Braves. I just watched the two hour Baseball Tonight. They went on and on about how Russll Martin is the best defensive catcher in the NL. Excuse me, but I think McCann is an excellent defensive catcher and the best all around cather. During the highlights of the game they totally ignored the great catch and subsequent assist Francoeur made. Phillips and Kryukjian (sp?) picked Oswalt for the Cy Young but didn’t mention Smoltz at all. In all the season highlights shown there was one of a Brave and it was Andruw Jones. The Web Gems didn’t display one of the many terrific plays Francoeur or Giles made this year.

There wasn’t one mention of the great run of the Braves that just ended. They went on so much about the Mets I thought someone was going to have to clean their shorts if you know what I mean. Everyone but Kruk put the Mets into the WS. Tim K. actually picked the Yanks to beat the Mets in seven games. Are you kidding? That series would never go seven. Even more ridiculous was Jeff Brantley picking the Mets to beat the Yankees in seven. Are these guys for real? Brantley actually said that the Dodgers nor Padres had rotations that were better than the Mets. Those two teams have rotations that are clearly better than the Mets.

This has nothing to do with a bias against the Braves but was the true kicker. Philips said Morneau was his AL MVP because of the way he played for the Twins this year. He argued that Morneau had a excellent stats in the Twins wins this year. Kruk and Brantley, who are have such a hard on for Derek Jeter that its downright scary, argued that Jeter should win the MVP because Morneau was just okay. He had great numbers and all but didn’t really help his team. What? He drove in 130 RBI. Brantley said he wasn’t worthy of the MVP because last year Jacque Jones and Torii Hunter had to make him play instead of sitting in the training room with a headache. Okay, what is the point. That was last season. We’re talking about this season. Philips all but said that but was shot down. I mean in all reality it should go to Big Pappi. What he said about Jeter hitting in that lineup was completely true. Taking nothing away from Jeter becasue he is one of the best who have ever played. But, c’mon. With all his striking out, Francoeur could have driven in 150 RBI with that group hitting in front of him.

I just don’t get this New York bias and Braves seemingly hatred. Also, no mention of Chuck James in the rookie of the year award. I guess going 11-4 basically all in the second half of the year and one hitting the precious Mets wasn’t impressive enough.

Makes me sick!

By robdawg06

October 1, 2006 11:47 PM | Link to this

I agree that Ted Williams was the greatest hitter of all-time. He spent his prime years in the military as you stated. If you look at the numbers, he was cheated out of a couple MVP’s (by the voters) by Joe DiMaggio too. Like Don Mattingly was cheated out of a MVP award by voters (Roger Clemens) one year. The pitching award is CY Young. the hitting award is MVP. If you vote a pitcher the CY Young and MVP then for that year the league’s best hitter goes unawarded. That ain’t right.

By brian

October 2, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this

robdawwg - you have to add Glavine if not Maddux as well to your list - 2 future Hall of Famers that will go in with Braves Hats.

DOB - when are the big GM meetings where the trade rumors fly and trades go down?

Should be the most interesting offseason in years. Definitely the most anticipated

By JJMB

October 2, 2006 12:09 AM | Link to this

Yeah, the MVP is an ethereal award. While listening to ESPN radio (forgive me) someone made a good point about it. Someone (Olbermann?) said he thought the definition of the MVP is left ambiguous to maintain interest in baseball.

That’s the best reason I’ve heard, not that’s it’s a good one.

By TennesseePaul

October 2, 2006 01:09 AM | Link to this

I saw that ESPN fiasco. I’ve long given up on that crew. I watch for Braves highlights when they aren’t on TV, but this season those Highlights were few and far between. Usually just the box score results and a quick mention about the other team.

Spent all day double checking my season stats database. I had left out a double and a home run. Such a drag. I had no idea where it was and had to go through every box score for the entire season to find them. Gottem now though.

Thanks guys for the great season on the Blog.
DOB: I’ve appreciated the work. Keep it up.
I’ll be around. Got some post season games to hit up this week. DOB, which games are you going to? I recall you mentioned reserving hotels in all the cities… where are you ending up?

Not a bad way to end the season. The Runs Allowed were on a steady decrease throughout September. Everything finished on a positive note. Sets up for a lot of potential for next season.

GO BRAVES!!

By David O'Brien

October 2, 2006 01:10 AM | Link to this

Robert, I just saw the Francoeur homer and catch-and-throw a couple of times on Baseball Tonight and/or Sportscenter. You must’ve just been away at that moment or something.

Ted Williams, to me, is definitely the greatest all-around hitter for average and power hitter. Reading a fine book on him now, by Leigh Montville. For all-around hitting, Hank doesn’t get nearly the credit he’s due. Amazing numbers _ RBIs, doubles, average, everything.

George Brett, Tony Gwynn, Pujols and pre-‘roids Barry are the best all-around hitters I’ve seen play in person, not counting Hank, who I saw on the downside of his career. And I’m talking hitting for average and power, not just the freak shows of Big Mac and roid Barry and Sosa.

By Head Coach

October 2, 2006 01:41 AM | Link to this

Yes, the Braves finished the second half of the season winners. They went 45-37 during the second half with a patchwork rotation and Wickman achoring the bullpen. It doesnt take much of an imagination to look forward and project them to win in 2007. Smoltz and Hudson both made all 35 starts this season and with Hampton , James , Ramirez , Davies and maybe Thomson ? they will have depth in the rotation and JS will be looking for at least one more starter this offseason. Wickman , Ward and Aybar have been added and a starting pitcher , leadoff man and right handed setup pitcher are definite needs that must be filled.

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 04:31 AM | Link to this

10 Paul, you’ll probably miss seeing this but I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again … you’re a true fan!

David, I really thought Eddie Mathews had the potential to be one of the great all-around hitters with power … of course, meeting him and waching him play when I was 11 and he was in an Atlanta Cracker uniform may have made me a bit prejudiced … but, Hall of Famer and Hero to me that he was … he never reached that potential.

Ted was the best! Some of my tales are fish stories but I do remember him hitting the Monster with what almost looked like a “bunt” swing.

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 04:56 AM | Link to this

Before shutting down … Stan Musial was a wonderful hitter … exciting to watch … I don’t think he never hit 40 homeruns in a season but he was a good RBI man with decent power. We hear a lot about players from his era but don’t seem to hear that much about Stan.

later …

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 05:36 AM | Link to this

robdawg06, I just noticed your 11:47 as I was shutting down … I know that there are different schools of thought but … shouldn’t the MVP be the one having the greatest impact on his team’s level of success?

I seems to me that it could be an unbelievable defensive player, a starting pitcher, closer, hitter, sparkplug leadoff man … or all-around good player … the team could win the Pennant or come in last … I can’t see how that’s unfair to a great hitter.

Pardon the redundancy but I don’t believe that a 5 tool player, having the best year that anyone has ever had in the history of the game, would deserve the MVP if someone else had a greater impact on his own team’s level of success.

Of course, it could be argued that suspected cheaters McGuire and Sosa should have won Co-MVP honors one year on the basis of their value to the game of Baseball … just because of the fan interest in the sport generated by their race for the Home Run crown.

Probably the MVPs are really the guys who bat behind the successful SuperStar power hitters on winning teams.

By joe

October 2, 2006 06:36 AM | Link to this

dave…what a disappointing post. i see your point about mets vs stros, etc, but one should never wish for one’s team to lose, for any reason. except saving your life. never. ever.

By dadgum

October 2, 2006 08:11 AM | Link to this

From what I have seeen and can project, the starting rotation next year could be: Smoltz, James, Hampton, Hudson, Ramirez. Obviously the Braves would be much stronger and a real contender if they can acquire a #1 or #2 starter. This could move Ramirez to that setup/middle relief role the Braves need. Also very possible Ramirez is traded depending on trades and free agency acquisitions prior.

Cormier might also help in middle relief but he is not an answer as a starter yet unless injuries set in. The braves will keep him though. Obviously Thomson is gone as it will require 2-3 mil to keep him and the Braves are not going to pony up that amount. Boyer and Devine should be ready to contribute. Davies will need more time at probably AA ball next year if he is back at all. Baez obviously will not return. Wickman will close it out.

We just need to find that reliable, dependable, durable starter to insert between Smoltz and James/Hampton. Oh yeah there just may be a few other teams looking at the same thing.

By SSBN

October 2, 2006 08:14 AM | Link to this

Since there are no clear cut favorites for the Cy Young, maybe Smoltz gets sentimental consideration. He had what, 10 victories blown by the bullpen? Maybe lower. But he’s third in k’s, seventh in ERA, 4th in innings pitched, and tied for first in wins with 5 other pitchers. If he hadn’t had that 3 start slide, he’d have that second CY and an HOF ticket.

By berigan

October 2, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

Wanted to say many thanks for Dave O’Brien for running this here blog, and to the AJC as well!! Hope we all will talk Braves baseball this winter, and about the playoff teams now!!! So, who will be the teams to beat??? I say the Dodgers will beat the Mets, and then the Padres, and the Tigers will beat the Yankees, and the Twins will beat the A’s and the Tigers, for a Twins Vs. Dodgers WS. The Twins winning it in 6 games. But don’t bet any money on it!!!! ;)

By NLCHAMPS

October 2, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

I agree with Joe. DOB, you actually think that brave players would purposely play poorly to lose the game because they want the Mets to lose to that same team???? You want the stro’s to do what your team couldn’t which is beat the Mets……GET A GRIP ON REALITY DOB.

By Lew

October 2, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

DOB-I just read your article about JS being energized. All this sounds great to me, but what about Bobby Dews? Is he leaving because he’s just worn out, or is he being moved aside for the sake of change. I have no problem with Eddie Perez as bullpen coach, but would hate to see Bobby Dews dissed because the Braves were bad this year. He is a great organization man and deserves all the respect he can get. A truly great baseball man for many years. Guess I won’t get to give him that Hemingway portrait after all. Just a question, David-Is there any possiblity of bring back Thomson at a much reduced salary to be a set up guy. Is he truly healed.? It was hard to tell from one inning, even though he pitched well. Maybe he could stay healthy and effective one inning at a time.

By Lew

October 2, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

Champs-It is a moot point, Dude. We beat the Astros 2 of 3 and knocked them out of the playoffs. Mets fans can thank us anytime they want. DOB was just posing a hypothetical for discussion. Now it’s up to the Mets to do what they have to do. No more excuses time, Dude. See if you are finally the Braves betters or if you will fall on your behinds and find out just how hard it is to go all the way

By Shaun

October 2, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

Some things about stats and “sabermetrics,” then I’ll shut up for a while (until something else needs to be straightened out).

First, let me say I apologize for offending anyone personally. I know I said a couple of things about Tom A. Hawk’s anger that my have been inappropriate.

But on to the subject at hand:

I would say virtually every single article or book I’ve read concerning advanced statistical analysis or “sabermetrics” or whatever you want to call it do not seek to prove something with stats’ they seek to answer questions and attempt to rule out biases.

To get philosophical: History has shown the best way to arrive at truth objectively is through evidence. Statistics, while not perfect, are the best piece of evidence available. They can simplify a wide range of events. No one can watch every conceivable game a player plays in, so statistics can give you the story of the player—not completely, but in a more objective way than any other.

It’s impossible to be objective about a player by just watching him play. For one, you can’t watch every single game of his career so you’re getting a limited view. Also, sometimes great players make plenty of bad plays and bad players make plenty of great plays. Every player is going to have hot and cold streaks and are going to look better or worse than they really are. Stats can give you a better idea, given the right sample size and taking context into account, etc.

One more thing: What would anyone have to gain for themselves by finding that OBP is more important than basically any other single percentage or rate stat or the Rickey Henderson would still be great without speed? For all of those who say “you can use stats to prove anything” what would be the point to proving such things? What do “sabermetricians” or whatever have to gain? The answer is nothing but arriving at truth. It’s rediculous to think that someone has some sinister motive or something by seeking and finding truth about on-base percentage or speed or whatever. Can anyone provide a motive, because I would like to hear some theories.

Also, has anyone who criticizes sabermetricians ever considered that the way most people look at the game and stats are not grounded in reason but in convention? That maybe a sabermetricians are taking a better approach by looking at baseball from a more scientific approach?

Now, you can criticize saying “stat geeks” don’t enjoy the beauty of the game, but enjoying the game and finding truth about the game could be two different things. And to some one of the beauty’s of the game is that you can find beauty in so many ways—by going to watch a game, by collecting baseball cards, or by seeking the truth about the game. The “stat geeks” have discovered that player performance is largely predictable, but there are plenty of things that are unpredictable. If you flip a coin it has a 50/50 chance to land on heads, but may land on heads 10 out of 15 times—which is impossible to predict.

Hopefully this will give you a better understanding of the sabermetric/stat geek world. It’s not that these people love stats, it’s that they love the truth.

By KC

October 2, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

Okay… so you take a look at the (active) roster the Braves ended the season with and ask “What do they need to add?”

Well, they could use a couple more middle relievers. If one of them were a lefty, that would be a big plus. But most of all, the Braves need upgrade the starting rotation. They need one more top-of-the-rotation kind of guy, and maybe another quality arm to round out the rotation.

Hey!!! It just so happens that we’ll have all of that returning from the DL this spring.

We need a quality starter or two… well, we’ve got Hampton and Ramirez coming back. We need a couple of quality middle relief arms (including another lefty). We’ll will likely get that with the return of Blaine Boyer and John Foster. Joey Devine might even be a helpful addition as well as he’s been pitching on the farm.

Bottom line… there’s not all that much that needs to be done this winter. The main thing is just to get healthy. Shuerholz might go after one more veteran reliever. He might free up some payroll by moving Giles, but I can’t imagine what else he might do. The Braves a fairly set most everywhere.

Yes, a true leadoff hitter would be nice. However, you have to keep in mind that Atlanta is already the best offensive team in the NL right now, so if we don’t touch the lineup at all, we’ll be just fine there. (Yes, I know we finished just behind Phili for most runs scored in the league, but when you consider the fact that the Phillies play in a big-time hitter’s park, where as the Braves play in a pitcher’s park… that’s more than enough to explain the 16 run difference between the two teams.)

If you’re a Braves fan, things are looking awfully good for next season.

By Shaun

October 2, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

KC,

I agree. The offense was remarkable. Sure, Chipper and Renteria probably aren’t going to repeat their great performances, but almost every other player looks to come close, repeat or get better.

Health would help the pitching, but John Scherholz’s goal will be to improve the staff.

By TennesseePaul

October 2, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

KC: The Braves do have guys coming back from the DL. But I don’t think they can rely on any of the too heavily after what happened this season. I have high hopes for Hamptons return, but even still I’d try to get a guy who can pitch day in and day out with little chance of injury.

I think one starter and one bullpen arm, in addition to what we have, would cover it.
Arranging the fielding positions will have to be addressed due to the pending free agency of two key positions after 2007. I still hope they can keep Andruw. I bet that guy is going to be on fire next season.

By KC

October 2, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

*Shaun, good morning!

Yeah, JS has come right out and said that (that his #1 priority is to strengthen the pitching staff). But except for maybe signing a veteran 8th inning guy… I have no idea what’s left for him to do???

I mean the rotation already looks great:

Smoltz

Hudson (I agree with Mark Lemke and others feel a bounce-back season is likely for Huddy.)

Hampton

Ramirez

James

The bullpen already has Wickman and some good young arms (Yates, McBride, Paronto, Boyer, Foster). Add a veteran set-up man, sure. But what else is there to do?

By Lew

October 2, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

KC-I pretty well agree with your assessment. I think JS will pull off one spectacular deal for a starter, using minor league talent and probably getting the other team to pick up half their salary. Hampton WILL come back strong. Almost everyone does 11/2 years after the surgery and Hampton is a gamer like Smoltz. Shaun-Dude, it has been great arguing with you this season. You’re never a jerk and always try to back up your arguments. As much grief as we have all given you, you deserve to level us occaisionally. As usual, though, one small disagreement. Edgar’s numbers are really very similar to his normal seasons. I think he will repeat his performance next year, maybe with one or two less HR. All his other stats are comparable to the rest of his career.

By Lew

October 2, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Does anyone know what Horacio’s status is? I’m not sure he would be good trade bait, and Thomson’s return from the same injury was not encouraging.

By KC

October 2, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

Lew

I’m not sure what HoRam’s status is right now, but I don’t think there’s much concern. He’s got 5 months (on top of the 4-6 he’s already been out) to let it heal.

JS always says that every player has 2 values: What he can do for the Braves on the field, or what he could bring in return if traded.

Right now, I think his potential value is much greater on the field than what we would get for him on the trade market. Maybe half-way through next season that will change if HoRam stays healthy. Maybe then it would make sense to trade him to make room for Kyle Davies in the rotation (if they’re still highly confident in his potential). You would still have Cormier as your 6th starter in case anyone goes down.

But if they were to trade HoRam this winter, I think they would regret it later. Personally, I really doubt that trade him.

By rammerjammer

October 2, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Assuming Giles is dealt, does that mean Prado is the second baseman next season?

Also, are B. Pena, T. Pena and Thorman trade bait? Seems like all three have good-to-great potential but no room for advancement in Atlanta.

By KC

October 2, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Lew:

You could very well be right. JS could pull off a spectacular deal for a starter… but who???? And who would get the boot from the rotation to make room?

It’s unlikely that the Braves will look for a starter on the free agent market. They can’t afford any of the best starting talent on the market this winter (not that there’s an abundance), and even if they could, they wouldn’t try to outbid the Mets, Dodgers, Yankees, and others. In other words, Schmidt and Zito certainly aren’t coming to ATL.

If JS does anything to strengthen the rotation from outside the organization, it would almost certainly be by trade. But who’s available that would be an upgrade on what we already have? Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Ramirez, James (with Davies and Cormier waiting in the wings). Unless the Braves could get another #1 caliber starter (and they’re awfully hard to get)… I don’t see a deal worth making. Do you?

By TennesseePaul

October 2, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

We are deep at Catcher and middle infield, so look for a trade partner needing those. The Red Sox will probably be on the hunt for middle infielders, I think Alex Cora is a Free Agent.

Trying to figure out what JS is going to do is difficult. He always pulls off a move that was completely unexpected. I didn’t see the Renteria deal coming. And I certianly didn’t expect to see Wickman come for one A ball Catcher.

After seeing this seasons struggles and needs, I’m even happier we didn’t cripple the finances by matching the Dodger Furcal offer.

By journalsit jimmy smith

October 2, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

In the fifth of a 4-part series, journalist jimmy smith takes a look at what must be done to rebuild the Braves.

pitching. pitching. pitching. it sure will be nice if hampton can come back and be the pitcher he was before. if so, the rotation will be vastly improved. another starter or two will be needed in case someone falters. this journalist would rather have too much pitching than what we saw this year.

the bullpen sure looked better after wicky arrived. mcbride is looking better and better. someone else must step up. the bullpen may be a strength in 2007 rather than a weakness.

hitting. hit like mccann. put the ball in play. when the pitcher makes a mistake, hit it out. down in the count, make contact and make something happen. teach this skill to other players to cut down on the strikeouts. the team scored a lot of runs but there were far too many strikeouts.

spring taining. this team needs an instructional spring training so that all players can learn to bunt, hit behind the runner, and hit the cut-off man. and this spring players must stretch and run and enter the season in better physical condition than in 2006. better to leave the golf clubs at home. recreation can be playing toss and getting ready for the season. pitchers should run enough that they will not pull muscles if they are called on to run to first base.

pre-game exercises and stretching - taking infield practice. why are the braves not doing more to be ready at the first pitch? is this league-wide or unique to the braves?

speed. yes, speed. journalist agrees that speed at the top of the lineup will improve this team. jimmy smith hopes tony pena, jr will develop into a starter. let mccann’s daddy work with him. let mccann’s daddy work with the whole team.

toe health. journalist takes no satisfaction in correctly predicting the woes of the toes on this team. a good toe man must be consulted. chipper’s bat still has lots of smoke left. gotta keep it in the lineup. will chipper commit to a strengthening program over the winter or will he continue to suffer injuries in 2007 that will disrupt the lineup?

lastly, hire greg olson to come back and be bullpen coach if bobby dews leaves. smart player, smart coach, could relate to the youngsters in the pen. all-star and on the 1991 team that started it all. if fredi goes and terry, too … we may see a very different group of coaches.

By Sonny

October 2, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

DOB…if the Braves can beat Houston, what makes you think the Mets couldn’t handle them. I don’t know, I think the Dodgers will be more of a challenge.

BTW: How cool is it going to be to see Furcal, Maddux and Betemit all playing in the postseason for ONE TEAM!

Speaking of Betemit, how bad does that trade look like now? Baez and Aybar probably won’t even be with the team next year.

Going with Reeksma as our closer and assembling that ragtag bullpen tells me that JS is slipping a bit…

BTW: Hate to say it, but Davis is a serious head case now. I think that torn groin goes through his head with every pitch. The damn muscle tore from the damn bone! It would screw with my head too!

By David

October 2, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

I don’t feel sorry for Andy Petite and Roger Clemens being implicated in the steroids scandals. Roger has looked as big as Hercules for quite some time. In fact, he looks so big he could pass for Mr. America or Mr. Atlas or someone like that. Its obvious to everyone that Roger is cheating. How else can you explain 7 Cy Youngs and the next guy behind him has only 4. Roger has a decided advanatage over his peers—-and I think that it is steroids that has blown him up to look like a human baloon. If Roger does get caught next year, I think all of his records should be scratched from the books and he should be banned from entering the Hall of Fame. I don’t care who you are; there is no one player who is bigger than the game. The only athlete that I ever saw who thought he was bigger than the game was Dione Sanders when he was taking helicopters to games and stuff like that. But by and large I’m really not sure about Roger. I think that he is cheating, but he hasn’t been caught so he continues to get away with it. I’m hopeful that the steroid policy is changed so that the 1st positive test results in a lifetime ban. That would flush the steroid problem once and for all!

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

Shaun, as one who slept through most of his advanced statstical and numerical analysis courses and who’s forgotten most of that which he once knew … I’m curious as to how many books you have read on the subject.

Most folks find simple mathematical statistics boring so they never become proficient in the basics … and aren’t properly equipped to tackle the advanced, ultra powerful stuff.

I haven’t yet had my coffee but I did want to say that it’s good to hear someone say something nice like “it’s that they love the truth” … it’s true and I like it!

Like most things, it’s a matter of perspective … enjoy!

By Shaun

October 2, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

Sonny ,

Best team doesn’t always win. If Houston had made it, they could have done some damage because they have the pitching.

Aybar will definetly be with the team and I think Baez has a decent shot at coming back. It’s way too early to say how that trade turned out. Comparing Aybar’s minor league numbers to Betemit’s, Aybar looks like he will get on base more and hit for a higher average…and he’s probably a little better defensively or at least more versitile.

Schuerholz basically had to go with Reitsma. It wasn’t in the budget to sign any of the top relievers available.

It’s way too early to tell how good Davies is. He’s still very young and it’s only one season. Based on Davies career minor league numbers he should be fine, barring a major injury.

By Shaun

October 2, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

Bob, journalist,

Well, actually I’ve probably read at least 4 or 5 books related to “sabermetrics” or written by “stat geeks.” I probably read articles by them or on the subject of stat analysis daily.

The good thing is baseball is one of those things, you don’t have to have a deep knowledge of mathmatics or statistics to understand the concepts that the “sabermetric” community discuss. It helps to have some understanding, but just basic math is all you really need to understand. Most books or articles are written so that they are easily understood by the average avid baseball fan. I always bring up the book Baseball Between the Numbers. That is the most educational book to get an overview of the approach taken by many in what has come to be known as sabermetrics.

By TennesseePaul

October 2, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Sonny: Aybar should be around next year. I think this year was his qualifying rookie year. At any rate, he’s cheap and under Braves control for 5 more years. He’s younger than Betemit as well. His average improved as the year went on. Betemits declined. Aybar is faster than Betemit and is better defensively. I don’t think we traded away a future hall of famer in Betemit. So I don’t think it’s going to smart all that much.
But here’s a perspective to help you out. These are the player results After the trade:
Player AVE
Aybar .313
Betemit .241

Payne: Baez said a week or so ago that he doesn’t want to come back. He is looking to market himself as a closer. He said something to the affect of, they already signed Wickman, and I want to be a closer so… I don’t think they will push for him to come back either. There could be other possibilities out there.

By TennesseePaul

October 2, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

I tell you what I’d like to see this team do next year. I’d like to see them win it all. Sweep up the regular season. And trounce all the teams in the post season. And on the final game, right after the final out, when victory is assured, I’d like to see them rush out of the dugout with a 20 foot long pole with a Braves Flag Attached. I’d like them to plant it firmly in the ground in the center of the Diamond. Especially if victory is claimed at another park. That would just be incredible.

By Shaun

October 2, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

TennPaul,

Sorry. Hadn’t read that about Baez. Make sense. Why would you want to stay with a team that probably isn’t going to offer you as much money, whether you’re a closer or a set-up guy?

Still, I said from day one the Betemit trade was fine for the Braves. About the only edge Betemit has over Aybar is power and maybe some aspects of defense. But Aybar is the better AVG/OBP guy and is probably at least as good defensively.

By 2006 METS

October 2, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

Lew…..The Mets have made it to the playoffs before. Just in case you didn’t know. Met fans have never said the winning in the playoffs. Heck, the 1986 Mets are proof of that. Look at the games against Houston and Boston. They were very tough. It’s not our first time to the dance. In fact we were in the World Series more recently than your braves (2000). I think what NLChamps was trying to say was that it was ridiculous to think there was some kind of conspirousy by the braves to help or hurt another teams efforts to make the playoffs.

By KC

October 2, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Journalist Jimmy,

You are correct… McBride Really did step it up this year. From July 16th onward, his ERA was 1.92. Not bad at all. Also, Tyler Yates’ ERA in Sept./Oct. was 2.70, so that’s encouraging for next year.

I keep asking this question of everyone that says we need to upgrade our pitching, and no one ever answers me… Other than a proven veteran setup man, what does our pitching staff need that we’re not already likely getting off the DL (in the form of Hampton, Boyer, Foster)??

By journalist stinky

October 2, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

journalist stinky wants to know why matt helm never got the luv that james bond got. matt helm could drink bond under the table. helm was american. wore cool turtle necks, too.

matt helm could also kiss girl and sing at the same time. amazing. and bond never almost scored with tina louise (aka ginger grant) b4 she was blown up with exploding bottle of bourban.

enquiring minds want to know.

By Paul

October 2, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

How can someone compare Byrd to Hampton. Did Byrd ever win 20 games or have an era under 3? Andruw hasn’t hit over .280 since 2000. The braves need a proven setup man and speed. The Mets are where they are because of their lead off man swiping over 60 bases and scoring 120+ runs. Hey Dave, news up here in New York (still a huge Brave fan) is shock over the Andy Petite accusations. If Petite is guilty, then their has to be at least over 200 others who are using or used.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 2, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

hello kc, you are right. what specifically can be done to strengthen the pitching? well, hampton must return healthy, james must continue as he is going, smoltz must not suffer injury to a oft-injured arm, and someone else on the current staff must step up. note journalist did not mention hudson. if hudson is here next year, he will certainly not be the opening day starter again. perhaps he will be the three or four starter but an expensive one. still, hudson, ramirez, davies, cormier … at least two more starters must be found if, if, if, hampton and smoltz can answer the bell each start.

and as for the pen, paronto should be back, mcbride, yates, and wicky. will boyer and foster return healthy? will reitsma figure in bobby’s plans?

journalist read dob’s series with great interest. js says he will address/fix the pitching and return the braves to the glory days … (glory to this journalist includes a pennant) so we will see some changes. if the gm says it needs to be fixed, he is alerting all that it is broken going in.

journalist merely thinks that relying on recovery (and effectiveness coming back) for so many injured players is too risky. if some don’t make it back or don’t come back able to contribute the team will need another starter at the minimum and some more capable relievers to get to wicky. and what is wicky goes down? oh, the humanity! he is not a well conditioned athlete. he is a cheeseburger basket with an attitude.

By rammerjammer

October 2, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Re: Leadoff spot

Scott Podsednik could be a bargain basement free-agent steal. Had 40 stolen bases. Very intense competitor who really might flourish under Bobby Cox.

OBP ain’t great (.330), but it was over .350 a year ago with 59 SBs. Shouldn’t be washed up at age 30.

A change of scenery and getting away from Ozzie Guillen’s vein-popping personality should help.

By KC

October 2, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

PAUL:

Yeah, Paul Byrd was never one of the best pitchers in the game. Hampton has been that (before his disastrous decision to pitch in Colorado), and in fact he was re-establishing himself as one of the elite starters in the game when he went down last year. He was well on his way to an all-star selection last year before the arm trouble started.

BUT…

If some one wants to use Paul Byrd as a comparison, so be it. It takes 18 months to fully recover from Tommy John Surgery. Byrd’s first post-surgery season after that 18 month mark was 2005. He posted a career best ERA (over a full season) in 05. Nuff said.

By Bravo Nam

October 2, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Hi all Still haven’t gotten to the field due to delays, but this will definitely be my last post for a couple of weeks.

Metro Thanks for the best wishes. Back at ya.

dadgum Absolutely agree- to be realistic about not only making the playoffs, but going deep next year, we absolutely must bring in a no.2 type starting pitcher.

DOB Thanks for all the great blogs AND for being the only journo who truly interacts and blogs with his fans! Looking forward to hearing all the juicy rumours when I get back in a couple.

Everyone else Thanks to those who were genuine bloggers and not troublemakers- not important whether we agreed or not- just important that your passion was baseball/the Braves, music, food, movies….

By journalist stinky

October 2, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

journalist must respectfully disagree with journalist smith about pitcher husdson. pitcher hudson’s era was way above respectable limit, but 218 innings pitched was excellent for pitcher having worst year of career. many other palukas having similar problem might have mailed in season and hibernated on dl. not pitcher hudson. pitcher hudson hung in there and showed heart. journalist takes head coach’s word that huddy will be back in good form.

By Salty55

October 2, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Bravo Nam Are you an insomniac…what is it 3:00-4:00AM there? Or do you keep ‘blog’ hours!?! :-)

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Shaun, regarding your 12:59 …

While I was just having a bit of pre-coffee fun, I would expect no less of you … regardless of your opinions and perspective, your posts bespeak your passion for the game and your level of preparedness … ain’t nothing wrong with that! Sabermetrics provides good tools and additional insights, provided one occassionally pauses to ponder … as I’m sure you do.

Of course, a player’s stats are so dependent on the competition … and with the impact of the unbalanced schedule … and the player’s tendency to be satisfied with success and not actively pursue excellence … my interest has shifted from the stats to the person. Still, I applaud those who properly so engage.

Actually, while I’m no longer actuary, I still use calculus, probability and statistics in much of what I do … it’s ingrained in my thought processes … it’s in the blood.

Over the past several years, I’ve been developing a Horse Racing projection system … for the purpose of predicting the outcome of Thoroughbred and Quarterhorse races. The search for the truth is always exciting … and uncovering hidden statistical relationships is especially satisfying … and for the critics: it doesn’t have to diminish one’s appreciation or enjoyment of the sport.

You might think that racehorses are more predictable than ball players … forget it … they ain’t! The only thing that horses seem to have in common … when I select them as winners, they turn out to be losers … and I have the statistics to prove it!

Two baseball statistics that do interest me are the tendency to remain in the game long after one’s skills have diminished below an acceptable level … and the reliability of the statistics indicating such declines.

It also seems that too many folks misread offyears as indicators of declining skills … while too many others ignore early warnings.

By Head Coach

October 2, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Jimmy , Baez is gone. Aybar isnt eligible for free agency for several more years and belongs to the Braves. Smoltz, Hampton , Hudson , James ,Ramirez and Davies is a good starting point as far as starters go. I would bring back Thomson if he would accept an incentive contract anywhere under a million. JS thinks he needs more pitching and I dont disagree , after all we only used 12 this season. Eight qualifed starters should do the trick assuming the injury bug doesnt bit again. Dave Roberts would fit nicely in left field. Js has roughly 9-10 million to spend , no major free agents on the club and plenty of prospects to trade , so its going to be very interesting this offseason.

By rammerjammer

October 2, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Re: Leadoff spot (retraction)

Just read where Podsednik was the only AL regular this year with an OPS of under .700.

Sorry. Never mind.

By KC

October 2, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

Journalist Jimmy:

(In regard to Tim Hudson) “perhaps he will be the three or four starter but an expensive one.”

I have to say that I remain surprised by the way people here talk about him. Your comment indicates to me that you’re convinced Tim Hudson has turned a corner (for the worse), and that he’ll never again be the quality pitcher that he was.

There’s no way to predict the future, and certainly Tim Hudson could come out next year and pitch every bit as badly as this year… but that’s unlikely. If I were laying odds, I’d say it’s quite likely that Hudson will bounce back next season.

Why?

First of all, he’s lost nothing. He’s only 30 years old and is stuff is still there. He showed that many times this season (he certainly looked good in his last start). His problem was mechanical inconsistency. Most baseball people will tell you that after a while, mechanical problems become as much a mental issue as anything else, and a full off-season can do wonders for clearing a player’s head.

Also, historically most top-tier pitchers who struggle bounce back nicely the following season. I randomly looked up the names of many accomplished starters like Kevin Brown, Roger Clemens, John Smoltz, and others. What I found was that many of them have had seasons (even in their prime) similar to Hudson’s 06 season in which their ERA’s jumped up well over 4.00. In each case, they followed that lousy season with a very solid one.

Some people have lost confidence in Tim Hudson because they think this is the 2nd year in a row in which he’s been a disappointment. As long as I live, I will never understand that. Tim Hudson finished with a 3.52 ERA last season. Sure, by Tim Hudson standards that wasn’t particularly impressive, but let’s not lose sight of the fact his ERA placed him in the top 15% of all starters in baseball last year. This year a 3.52 ERA would place him in the top 7%. If you can limit major league hitters to 3-1/2 runs per 9 innings, you have done a damn good job.

This was the first bad season of Tim Hudson’s career. All indicators are that he will turn it around next season. I was one of the thousands of Braves fans who were throwing things at the TV during many of his starts this year, but rationally I have to say that his struggles just aren’t likely to carry over to next season.

By KC

October 2, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

Head Coach:

How do you figure that JS has 9-10 million to spend?

By David O'Brien

October 2, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

Uh, Mets fans, I didn’t actually think the Braves players would try to lose so the Mets could face the Astros potentially. That was more a rhetorical question. See, not everything we say should be taken literally. I thought that was kind of understood by everyone, but I guess you guys didn’t get the point. Oh, well….

In answer to the Bobby Dews question _ no, not being squeezed out or dissed by any means. His idea to move out of that job. Just can’t take all the squatting and warming up pitchers and all at 67 years old. It’s finally become too much. He’ll move into a special-assistant type of position and will be with the team at spring training and home games, etc, evaluating talent, scouting, whatever they decide.

Three relievers who’ll definitely be counted on heavily (so to speak, ba-da-bum): Wickman, Yates, McBride. That’s where they’re going to start from with the bullpen. After that, it’s all undecided.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

October 2, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Don’t have time to back track and catch up on the blog, but has anybody mentioned the Glavine/Maddux match-up in game two (Thursday is it?)? I hope that is a pitchers duel for the ages. I’d like to see a double-complete game from those two. I might even get down off my deer stand early to see that.

By Lew

October 2, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

DOB-What about Paronto. I would think he did the best of all (except Wicky), for most of the time he was there. Head Cocah-I don’t think $9 mil is accurate. Attrition (THomson, Reitsma, etc) frees up about $12.5 million. We get $3mill from Smoltz’s cut in pay. That equals $15.5 million, of which Wicky gets $6.5, leaving $9million. LaRoche’s arbitrationis expected to add about $2million and Giles will get about $1.25 mil in raises. Then there’s Horacio, who is arbitration eligible. We’re really looking at about $5million left, not 9.

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

I’ve got to run but thought I’d share my relief to find out that we’re no more illogical than anyone else … I just saw where Dunkin Donuts and AppleBee’s are being boycotted because they won’t hire immigrants whose Social Security Numbers don’t match the names given by the immigrants … quite obviously, a clear case of racism and unfair discrimination, Nicht Wahr?!

I’m appalled … Applebee’s has good new potatoes and Dunkin’ Doughnuts has good coffee … and everybody likes the Munchkins!

By KC

October 2, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Lew:

Don’t forget about Hampton. Insurance covered about 60% of his salary this year, which means we’ll pay him 4.8 million more next year than we did this season.

By rammerjammer

October 2, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I thought Oscar and Paronto had earned their keep for next season, no? Does everyone in the pen but Wick have to be a strikeout pitcher?

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Not to argue KC, but “This was the first bad season of Tim Hudson’s career” is a mite strong … I guess it depends on expectations and your definition of bad. However, I expect Tim to have a solid 2007.

later …

By KC

October 2, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

Bob, if this wasn’t the first bad season of Hudson’s career, then when was it??

By Tim Hudson

October 2, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

KC, I’m afraid I have to agree with everyone besides you and Head Coach. Without amphetemines, I’m just a #4 starter. If only Giambi and McGwire were here in the dugout with me like they used to be, I might still be “lights out.” Hmm. You know, I’m often thinking about fishing while I’m pitching; maybe I can talk to LaRoche’s doctor and get some Adderall! Thanks for the confidence, however; most pitchers who have a noticeable (even acute) drop-off for two straight seasons at my age that happens to directly coincide with the tougher testing don’t get such stalwart support. Could I interest you two in some stock options?

By Andy

October 2, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

dave—heck of a year—thanks

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

KC, as I said … it’s a matter of expectations and definition … for some pitchers, both “14-9” and “13-12 if you’re on a team with a losing record” are objectives.

I didn’t think his 2005 season, although a bit better perhaps than 2006, was up to expectations … his or mine.

I thought he was too inconsistent in both years; didn’t put batters away as well as I had expected, and most certainly wasn’t as good at damage control as expected … my opinion and perception, nothing more.

In 2006, his problems were more clearly manifested and he was the focus of more attention, probably because of the woes besetting the team. He often reminded me of someone coming back from an injury … expecting to run out of gas, and he frequently didn’t disappoint. I still think he can be the Number 1 Starter that we hoped he would be … and while some of the problem may well be with mechanics and conditioning, I think much of it has been above the neck … time will tell.

By Tom A. Hawk

October 2, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

What’s Aybar’s percentage as to making a stupid out on the bases once he gets on base? He absolutely has to be the National League leader in this category. About the only thing I didn’t see him do wrong on the basepaths was miss a base as he trotted out the one stinking home run he’s hit as a Brave.

Maddux vs. Glavine on Thursday. That’s gotta make some Braves’ fans wince.

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer, not to intrude but I think both probably exceeded expectations. Oscar’s still trying to find himself … his “stuff” can be as good as that of just about anyone … and hopefully, both will be back.

By KC

October 2, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Bob, agreed. As I said… by Tim Hudson standards his 3.52 ERA wasn’t overly impressive, but we do need to keep in mind that a 3.52 ERA over a full season still makes you one of the top pitchers in the game. Again, last year he was in the top 15% of all MLB starters. This year that ERA would have placed him in the top 7%.

I would love to see Tim Hudson compete for a CY Young again, but I would be very happy if he just posts another ERA of 3-1/2 next season. With the much improved bullpen and a great offense and defense behind him, a 3.52 ERA should be good enough to win 18 games.

By Bob, journalist

October 2, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

My indicators suggest that some of my “stacks” need attention but before I go … I noticed where Mark Bowman or at least some article appearing on the Braves’ site indicated that the Braves were 5 games under .500 when they acquired Wickman … and finished 4 games under.

I can’t imagine that being anywhere close to correct … what was the record when he joined the Braves?

By ncscoots

October 2, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

DOB, just wanted to say that the blog has really been a fine addition to the baseball season for me. I came to it late, and I was immediately (mostly) impressed with the level of baseball knowledge displayed, if somewhat initially put off by discussions of music, and, well, pie. I now freely admit that I came to love the non-baseball content as much as discussions of anything else. I salute all you folks who contribute here, especially on a regular basis, because this blog really is not the norm (look at any other sports blog in the universe to see the difference). I feel that I made a lot cyber-friends this season, and, bubba, that’s plus money in my book. I won’t mention all the names that come to mind when I think of what has given me enjoyment this year (for the most part, they know who they are, anyway), but I certainly look forward to next season for more reasons than just the baseball. Thanks, Dave, for both providing the forum and lavishing it with attention. And right now, I think I’ll go throw on some music, eat some banana pudding, and look forward to some offseason banter. Anything but Juan Pi….you know, that guy Dave mentioned.

By rammerjammer

October 2, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Bob,

My thinking, too. Of course, I don’t want to get obsessed over middle relievers. The key is getting seven strong innings out of four good starters and one stand-in. This is where JS and BC will have to look into the crystal ball and predict who’ll be back strong, who’ll improve and who’s on the decline. None of our possible starters is a sure thing.

By robdawg06

October 3, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

Bob the journalist, an every day player (hitter) plays between 150 and 162 games. An average pitcher may pitch in 35 games and closers maybe in 60 games. An every day player is more vital to the team any way you look at it. Not rewarding that every day player who is the best that year is a disgrace. Pujols contributions in 162 games is more valuable than Chris Carpenter’s 18 wins as a starting pitcher. Pujols probably won 80 games fot the Cardinals with his bat.