Braves

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

Response to Post on previous Blog: Morning, All. I just caught up on the posts and thought “I can’t beleive someone thinks the Rays would take a kid who hits .200 at AA and a pitcher who (so far) can’t pitch his way out of a paper bag for a proven talent.” Then Shaun comes along and thinks they’d better throw in Kasmir too to make it even. You guys slay me.

I think the D-Rays would love to have Davies and Saltalamacchia.

Yes, Davies has struggled some at the major league level, but he’s posted excellent K/BB and HR numbers throughout his minor league career. He’s still a few years from his peak. Barring major injury, he’ll be a very good major league pitcher.

Saltalamacchia is the top hitting prospect in the Braves system. Almost every hitting prospect becomes something (unlike pitchers they don’t have the same injury risks and the stats used to evaluate them are more accurate).

So, why would you want to trade two talented guys that are going to be very cheap and productive for a more expensive guy with a .326 career OBP. Granted, Crawford is talented and hasn’t peaked yet. But he’s not worth Davis and Saltalamacchia and the extra money the Braves would have to pay him.

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Saltalamacchia has had trouble adjusting to AA but he still drew a decent amount of walks, is a catcher, and is still playing at AA at the age of 21. Given his numbers his previous three seasons, I’d be surprised if he doesn’t make the adjustment.

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this

DOB: I agree. Hrumph!

Certainly hope the Braves spoil the Astros efforts. Doing so will require them to play for .500. I’d love it if they could get back to the .500 mark. And, I’d be happy if we could just ride this wave of Met apathy to a series sweep. They can try to get in gear on their next series.

GO BRAVES

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

Payne: I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I recall he did make a marked improvement around mid-season. Not enough to get over that first half, but certainly an improvement. Do you have those numbers?

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

this journalist is on board. journalist will now turn the other cheek. can we still talk pie? now, baseball … dob is right about the similarities of this year’s mets and previous braves teams that have entered the short series only to be dominated by power pitchers who steal the pennant away. andruw is such a likeable player that it is hard to wish him away. back-to-back 40 hr seasons and a lot of rbi’s. and he can be better! there is much work to be done in the spring. let’s hope bobby runs the best camp he’s ever run and gets the players ready for the opener. early losses count the same as late losses. now, toes … can still talk toes, right? if only two toes - which one causes the bunions? journalist is not saying anyone has only two toes, may just be rumors.

By El Bravo

September 27, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Great post DOB. I’m a frequent reader and rare contributor to this blog, but it has really gone downhill the last few weeks. Let’s get back to some good baseball discussions. All of the name calling is just lame.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I wasn’t saying these guys are scrubs, only that they haven’t proven anything yet. The D-Rays signed Crawford to a four year extension for a reason: they know what they’re getting. Why would they up and trade him (and especially, in your view add “a heckuva lot more”) for two guys who may or may not amount to anything? Sure, the general consensus is that they probably will, but that’s a hell of a gamble in my opinion. Of course, I’m not a GM.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

esteemed journalist jimmy smith agrees with esteemed journalist DOB. no need to give stinky a second look. we have much bigger problems, like toes. toes are not to be trifled with. journalist jimmy must now report to his parole officer. journalist jimmy, out. Oh the humanity!

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

TennPaul,

Don’t have the splits, just the overall numbers.

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Jarrod-Saltalamacchia.shtml

By BB FAN

September 27, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

I agree. Davies and Salty for Crawford would not be a good deal. Crawford has never liked hitting leadoff anyway. He does not do as well in the leadoff spot either. He is a # 2 or # 3 hitter. At least the stats back that up.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

What the hell happened here? My first post doesn’t even show up, and now half of yesterday’s blog gets superimposed on this brand new one. Is this just my computer, or is something really wrong here?

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I wasn’t saying these guys are scrubs, only that they haven’t proven anything yet. The D-Rays signed Crawford to a four year extension for a reason: they know what they’re getting. Why would they up and trade him (and especially, in your view add “a heckuva lot more”) for two guys who may or may not amount to anything? Sure, the general consensus is that they probably will, but that’s a hell of a gamble in my opinion. Of course, I’m not a GM.

Well, the D-Rays would be stupid not to take Davies and Saltalamacchia for Crawford. I don’t think it’s as big a gamble as many would think. Saltalamacchia is almost certain to become productive; and Davies has a good track record throughout the minors, is still 3-4 years from his peak seasons, and has never had any major injuries that I know of.

By tyyosh

September 27, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

I suspect the massive re-post was an intentional attack. Not sure how long this new blog is going to last, but just in case…

To answer the 9:50 Q about Skip and Pete’s - it’s pretty good, and they have three sauces that are all pretty good also. Good taste on the pork, which I usually get. It’s usually our first choice if we have to buy food in the stadium. Normally, whenever possible, though, we get food beforehand and bring it in. The BBQ is not so good though that we would go buy it in the free market as opposed to, say, Sam and Dave’s BBQ1 and 2, Slope’s BBQ, Fat Matt’s, and next on the list (DOB-recommended), Smith’s Olde Bar.

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

BB FAN,

I think Crawford will be a fine player, but I really don’t think he’ll develop into another Rickey Henderson or anything. But Davies has a good chance to be a top-of-the-rotation guy for most teams. And, as I said, Saltalamacchia is almost certain to become a productive hitter. If Saltalamacchia doesn’t have a position with the Braves, I think they can get a better player than Crawford for him.

By Bravo Nam

September 27, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Lou As a Mets fan, your respect for what the Braves have achieved is greatly appreciated. I think some of your fellow Mets fans on this blog (NL Champs, Metrosexual Boy, NPD and crew) could learn a lot from you about winning with class, humility and good sportsmanship.

I don’t know what the rest of the Braves fans on here think, but the inundation of this site by little boys like Stinky, Robert and SDA actually make the unreasonable showmanship of the unreasonable Mets fans (there are a treasured few who are reasonable) seem tame in comparison!

Carlos Nice to have a genuine blogger on the site. Just wanted to point out though that we don’t need to worry about AJ for 2007- he’s already on the payroll. The thornier issue is whether the Braves trade him in the offseason or keep him.

And to the blogger who a few days back mentioned that the Braves look as though they are no longer trying and throwing games, you obviously haven’t been following this team for long…and clearly don’t understand the competitive spirit and pride of a few characters like JS, Cox, Smoltz, C Jones and Francoueur. They can, and deserve to be criticised for at times showing a lack of hussle, complacency, lack of passion, and an overly cool demeanour that at times looks like they don’t care. But one thing you can’t criticize these guys for is quitting- it’s not in their nature!

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

Grich, never fear. Just a computer clich. All’s taken care of.

Skip & Pete’s _ tyyosh’s review is accurate.

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Meant to say Grich, not Grinch. Grinch, were you a Bobby Grich fan? Oh well…

Salty had a better second half, but still not very good. Probably need to hold onto him a while to get real value. But we’ll see.

Gotta write a story now. Talk to you later.

By eware

September 27, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

DOB, have you heard the new My Morning Jacket live CD? “One Big Holiday” - Epic! - all I can say.

Also, have you heard any of Will Hoge’s stuff? His most recent album kicked. You can hear some stuff here: www.purevolume.com/willhoge

Check out “Woman Be Strong” - really channels the old Stax recordings.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

Aside from tearing his groin this season and missing 2 1/2 months, followed by pitching horribly when he came back. But, ok; maybe you’re right. I’m just saying I wouldn’t do it.

And what happened to my post about eggs? It was important, and needed to be discussed! Unfortunately, I don’t have time to repeat it at the moment. Off to the gym. Later, all.

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Sweet! Filla has been removed.

Didn’t Kazmir go down with an arm injury this season? Even still, he’s going to be a really good pitcher.

Dealing with the D-Rays, soon to be just the Rays, is sketchy. They always seem to demand huge portions in return.

By Jman

September 27, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Posted on other blog, but since DOB started a new one I figured I’d share my dream here.

Carl Crawford would be an awesome addition to any team!!! Salty and Davies for Crawford.

Although deals like this rarely happen: Andruw, Huddy, and Giles to LA-Anaheim for Ervin Santana, Lefty pithcing prospect Joe Saunders (Who is very awesome, btw), Juan Rivera, and Chone Figgins.

Then Yunel Escobar (SS Prosect) to Oakland for Joe Blanton (Another grade A young pitcher. 16-12 this year.)

Which leaves us with this lineup - CF-Chone Figgins LF-Carl Crawford 3B-Ancient Chipper C-Brian McCann SS-Edgar Renteria 1B-Adam LaRoche RF-Jeff Francoeur 2B-Aybar/Prado

Bench - Diaz - OF Thorman - 1B/OF Orr - Util. Aybar/Prado - 2B/3B Super sub - Juan Rivera - OF(In 121 games this year has 24 HR, and 84 RBI and only 55K. That’s almost 40 games less than Francoeur and only 2 less HR’s and 15 less RBI, AS A BACKUP!!!)

Projected Starting Staff - Smoltz Santana Hampton Blanton C. James J. Saunders - 6th Starter/Long relief

Bullpen - Wickman - CL Boyer - 7th/8th inning Devine - 7th/8th inning Paronto - specialty Villarreal - Long relief McBride - Lefty

I like my dream world. Does anyone else?

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, isn’t “Grich” Japanese for “Glitch?” :-) Later.

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

I don’t know what the rest of the Braves fans on here think, but the inundation of this site by little boys like Stinky, Robert and SDA actually make the unreasonable showmanship of the unreasonable Mets fans (there are a treasured few who are reasonable) seem tame in comparison!

Of course. Like many New York baseball fans, they rub it in when their team is good and whine when they are bad; or they pick whichever team is winning. They are not like many St. Louis or Atlanta or Boston or Dodger fans who just enjoy their team and enjoy the game of baseball. They love winning more than the game itself.

And if you’re a Mets fan, why would you even post a comment about the Mets on a Braves blog? I can’t see any decent Braves fans posting comments about the Braves on a Mets blog.

By TRocks

September 27, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

DOB, whats your take on a deal for Crawford? I know they are dangling him in hopes of getting a top of the rotation pitcher in return. The main reason is that they realize that the ONLY way they can compete in the AL EAST is by having a formidible rotation to counteract the stud lineups the division has. So, can a Davies+prospect for Crawford get done? Would they have to trade another guy (Hudson?) in order to fit him into the payroll?

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

The Grinch,

I should have specified—Davies hasn’t had any major arm injuries.

By rammerjammer

September 27, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Well said, DOB. Many thanks.

I’ll bite on the Chipper issue…from what I’m reading, he’ll never approach 500 AB again. Makes me rethink Giles. Might need to keep him, and use Aybar as a once-twice weekly starter at 3B while Chipper rests.

Or would being a DH lengthen his career? He’ll be 35 next season, and is just 45 HR shy of 400. He’ll need at least two seasons to reach that, but offensively he’s as good as ever (just not as durable).

Personally, I wouldn’t want to see him go but I don’t know how important individual milestones are to him. Of course, his contract is another issue.

By TRocks

September 27, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

I also saw someone mention earlier a deal of AJ for santana, figgins, and another top prospect. I think that would be a helluva deal.

By Del

September 27, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

To Elder Eric, Carroll and all the others who used to blog here in 05 and early 06 ….. Hope all you folks who we used to exchange ideas (not insults) with will decide to re-visit the blog with all your thoughts for the 07 season. Maybe we can once again have some fun on this blog without being sarcastically reviled every time we post our own opinions. Whats you think ???

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Angels stuff is all interesting, especially because they could afford Andruw and that’s one of the places he’d be willing to go, for sure. Keep an eye on that this winter, the Angels. They have some nice young players that could really fit well with the Braves, and you mentioned a couple. Figgins would be PERFECT with the Braves, given their need for a versatile guy who could start 5 games a week at a few positions.

D-Rays would have to want more than Salty and Davies for Crawford, man. Come on. If they believed Hudson could revert to AL form in the AL (big stretch, I know), they might be interested, but not with the big chunk of change that Huddy’s owed after the 2007 season. So that wouldn’t work.

They might ask for James, if it came to that. I don’t know, just speculation. I can’t see a good fit for a trade from Braves’ perspective or D-Rays, because of money issues, etc, and fact that the Braves can’t afford to trade away any more good pitching.

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Haven’t heard the My Morning Jacket CD, but Mark Bradley mentioned to me they did something with Bobby Bare Jr. Is that what you’re talking about? Man, I gotta get to the record store. Didn’t go yesterday so I haven’t seen the Tuesday releases.

By Ricardo

September 27, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

DOB -

Long time listner, first time caller.

I really enjoy reading this blog everyday and like a few have already stated, it seemed to break down the last few weeks.

No way I’d take Crawford for Salty and Davies. For starters, I think I think it’s a moot point becuase the Braves wouldn’t do it. They have stated the desire to go “back to the old days” and build around pitching. You don’t trade a young guy like Davies if that’s the case. While I agree he hasn’t looked that great this year I think he’s got a live arm and will be better next year for his struggles this year.

Onto ‘Q - I agree with TYYOSH that Sam and Daves is great - best brisket in town. I also like the pork at Pig N Chick and the chicken at Fatt Matt’s, but not the ribs as much - the cooking is good, but I don’t like the quality of the ribs - too much fat.

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

TRocks,

It would be rediculous for the Braves to trade Davies and a decent prospect for Crawford, not to mention throwing in a third player.

Like I said, Crawford is a fine player, but he’s not worth three players plus the money the Braves would have to pay him. I’ll take my chances with Davies and Saltalamacchia or whoever the other prospect(s) would be.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

tyyosh, marietta, huh? well, sam and dave’s is hard to beat. this journalist also enjoys slopes. journalist ate at the new BBQ-2 monday night and enjoyed the pulled pork, ribs, brisket, and sides. amazing that all could be so good. there are two sauces - a tomato base and a NC vinegar base. in reality, the barbecue is so good that no sauce is needed. soon, sam will be off to the big pig jig for some competition cooking. better not tell wicky about that. there will be no pants to fit him next season. now, baseball … rammer, it is hard to imagine chipper going elsewhere with the contract he has and the high susceptibilty to injury. he hurt himself once in the infield on a sloppy field. all the other boo-boos were while swinging the bat or running the bases. chipper is very fragile and it will likely only get worse.

By Carlos Amato

September 27, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Bravo Nam, thanks for the welcome! I know AJ’s contract is due only in 2007, but I think it would be nice to sign a multi-year extension this winter, if we can get a 14-15 mil per year deal. 40 hr, 120 rbi and great defense are worth that kind of money.

Shawn - I don’t get the “getting young prospects for veterans” thing. This is a pretty young team to me. If you dump all the free agent veterans (Jordan, Pratt, etc, wich I think the Braves will do) and you look at the remaining players, you will realize that: Rotation: 3 veterans (Smoltz, Hampton, Hudson) Bulpen: Wickman Lineup: Renteria and Chipper (unless you consider AJ and Giles “veterans”, for me a guy in the late 20s still has a LOT of good years ahead of him).

Alright, throw in AJ and Giles and you have 8 veterans in a 25-roster. That means 17 guys who are still on the rise and the backbone for the next 5-6 years.

By eware

September 27, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

Don’t know about the Bobby Bare, Jr. thing. But the live album is called Okonokos.

By Jman

September 27, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

No way would I trade James. C. James has more than proven he belongs here. Davies who supposedly has much greater upside, and is supposed to be “top of the rotation material” has not proven it. He’s had a few decent outtings in 1+ seasons. Which is probably why the D-Rays would want James instead of Davies. Totally talked myself out of that one, huh. How bout if we throw in Yunel Escobar? They have Upton to play 3B/SS, but Escobar is young and good.

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Like I said, if I’m the D-Rays I do a Davies and Salty for Crawford trade in a heartbeat. And that trade doesn’t make any sense for the Braves. They already have a solid LF in Diaz and why would you want to trade a young pitcher and a young hitter. Maybe Salty for Crawford staight up, but anything else should be off-limits.

By Georgetown Kid

September 27, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Davies has shown very little evidence of being a top-of-the-rotation pitcher in his 27 big-league starts. His numbers are far, far worse than those of Smotlz or Glavin in their first 2 years.

So, from the D-Rays perspective, they would need more than Salty and Davies.

However, if the Braves’ coaching staff and talent evaluators genuinely believe that Davies will be a front-line starting pitcher in the near future, then the trade for Crawford would be a loser for the Braves anyway.

On the other hand, if Cox et al. are beginning to doubt Davies’ potential, perhaps we should deal him before he further damages his trade value.

By rammerjammer

September 27, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

JJS,

Well, we could do a lot worse that Chipper and 400 AB, couldn’t we? He still swings a good stick, and is always good for a quote.

Well…he swings a good stick anyway.

Do hope that JS, clearly zealous in his efforts to right the ship, doesn’t outrun his headlights and deal the future. Especially gotta give Davies more innings at this level to see if he’s a keeper or another Ben McDonald.

By Kentavo

September 27, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Do some salary dumping (AJ or Chipper, Giles or Renteria) and sign Zito!

Smoltz, Zito, Hampton, Hudson, and James.

Gotta like it.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

Got caught up on the phone; just gotta make one final comment before I really do get my butt to the gym. Shaun, I agreed to disagree about the Salty/Davies for Crawford trade; at least that was somewhat in the realm of possibility (though I seriously doubt it). Salty for Crawford straight up? (Voice through megaphone): Mr. Payne, place your hands on your head. Now, very carefully, BACK AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE. We have people who can help you get your life back on track, Mr. Payne; don’t end it this way…:-)

By Zimmerman

September 27, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

DOB, wise words leading off the blog, my friend. This fellow who’s been twisted by society’s pliers cares not to come up any higher, but rather get you down in the hole that he’s in.

But I mean no harm nor put fault on anyone who lives in a vault.

It’s alright, Ma, we’re only blogging.

I had to leave it alone for a while, but I’ve finally got a finished version of the song I’ve been working on. I’d like to share it now with the fans. I only wish you wouldn’t clap so hard.

Ballad of a Third (Base)Man

You stumble off the field

Your team’s out of the race.

When every other year of your career

You’ve been in first place.

You’ve got the most bewildered

Look on your face.

And you say, “Impossible!”

While the press throws you bones.

And you know something is happening here

But you don’t know what it is,

Do you, Chipper Jones?

You walk into the clubhouse,

Your bat in your hand.

You see somebody naked,

And you say, “Who is that man?”

Then he turns around

And you see it’s Brian McCann.

And his bat’s much younger and stronger than your own.

And you know something is happening here

But you don’t know what it is,

Do you, Chipper Jones?

You have many contacts

Among the sporting hacks

Who’ve got your back

When someone attacks

Your declining station.

But, hell, it’s hard enough,

What with old age and stuff,

Just to keep calling their bluff

Without resorting to radical steroidization.

You’ve run with Hooters girls

And they’ve all like your looks.

And for spurts of a week or two,

Your play still really cooks.

But most athletes your age,

They’re retired, writing books.

And that disabled list

Feels more and more like home.

And you know something is happening here

But you don’t know what it is,

Do you, Chipper Jones?

(moans)

(harsh, dirge-like piano outro)

By elbravox

September 27, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

AMEN DOB AMEN. Would it not be nice to have Smoltz against Clemens on the last day of the season and preventing the ‘stros from the playoffs? And that day would be the last TBS telecast!

By Lew

September 27, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

DOB-I’m not so sure about My MOrning Jacket-Of the new breed of southern rock, I like Kings of Leon and Drive By Truckers much better. Georgetown Kid-Davies just had a pretty nasty injury, complete with surgery. Neither Snoltz nor Glavine had to contend with rehad their first two years. Let’s give the kid some time. We might just be happy with the results. Or not. At $7million per, Crawford might not be a fit unless Andruw was traded (which I sincerely doubt will happen). Otherwise, I don’t see how we could fit his salary in the mix.

By VolfanaticinTenn

September 27, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

HERE ARE SOME IDEAS I AM SURE I AM GOING TO GET CLOBBERED IN THIS BLOG FOR. HOW ABOUT FIGURING OUT A WAY TO GET BARRY BONDS OVER HERE. HE HAS ALWAYS WANTED TO BE HERE AND HE IS PROBABLY DONE WITH THE GIANTS. WE COULD SEND GILLY, ANDRUW JONES, AND A PITCHER TO THE G-MEN. NOW I KNOW HE HAS HAD THE STEROID ISSUE BUT WOULDN’T IT BE COOL IF HE BROKE THE CURRENT HOME RUN KING AARON’S RECORD ABOUT A HUNDRED YARDS FROM THE OLD ROUND STADIUM THAT’S NOW A PARKING LOT??? HELL, HE MIGHT HIT THE DAMN THING OVER THERE ANYWAY. I KNOW, I KNOW, I AM AN IDIOT, BUT I AM A DREAMER TOO. I DOUBT WE COULD AFFORD BONDS ANYHOW, BUT THINK OF THE HOOPLA FOCUSED ON TURNER FIELD NEXT YEAR!!!! AS FOR PITCHING, LETS KEEP SMOLTZ AND HUDSON AT THE TOP AND ADD A DONTRELLE WILLIS FROM THE MARLINS. WE COULD HAVE HORACIO RAMIREZ AND DAVIES FILL IN THE GAP. WE NEED TO GET RID OF HAMPTON, AND THOMPSON SEE IF MAYBE JOEY DEVINE CAN START SOME GAMES. AS FOR A LEAD OFF HITTER, I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH EITHER CARL CRAWFORD OR DAVE ROBERTS. HELL, LETS GIVE COCO CRISP A CALL. HE COULD REPLACE ANDRUW. AND WHILE WE’RE AT IT, LETS SEE IF WE CAN GET CAPTAIN CRUNCH, AND TOUCAN SAM INTO THE BULLPEN. MIGHT DO BETTER THAN THE ROAD KILL WE HAD IN THERE THIS YEAR. FINALLY WE NEED TO DUMP ROGER MCDOWELL AND CALL UP AL HRABOSKY OUR OLD FRIEND THE ‘MAD HUNGARIAN’ TO BE PITCHING COACH. HE COULD TEACH SOME OF OUR PITCHERS THAT TRICK HE DID ON THE BACK OF THE MOUND BEFORE TAKING THE HILL BACK IN THE EARLY 80’S. WE NEED SOME ATTITUDE ON THAT MOUND FOR CHRISSAKES!! WELL, GOTTA GO. LET THE CLOBBERING BEGIN. GO BIG ORANGE!!!

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

journalist wonders where fellow esteemed journalist Bob is? somoeone must wake up Bob before the game. Oh the humanity!

By Jman

September 27, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

This team has GOT to get back to young pitching. We have the young bats to build around! Which is why we should trade Andruw, Giles, and Hudson to get YOUNG pitching in return. If we can get a true bonified leadoff guy in Figgins, and two prospects out of Andruw and Giles we should do it! The more I think about Davies the more I’d rather keep him. This year will likely be Smoltzie’s last season. We’ll have Hampton back for a couple more years, and having a rotation with Davies, James, and whatever young pitching we get in return for Andruw should carry this team for another big run of titles!

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

I like the idea of Chone Figgins. I think he’d be an excellent player to have. But I wouldn’t want him to be an every day CF. If we could manage a trade which brought him to ATL, he’d be perfect as the super sub. We’ll need him at 3rd, and if we keep Giles, 2B. Those two always find a way to get hurt. Plus he could spell Francoeur in Right to keep the guy fresh.

Having said all that, I hate his name. Chone. It’s like mexican underwear. It may not be pronouced that way, but it is just waiting to be baited that way.

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

I AM GOING TO GET CLOBBERED IN THIS BLOG

Just undo the caps lock and you’ll get along much better with everyone. No need to yell.

By Slide Sid!

September 27, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Trading Andruw scares the bejesus out of me. I know he is a streaky hitter, but at the end of the last two seasons he has had at least 40 hrs. How does a team go about replacing a center fielder that hits 40 hr and plays that kind of defense? I say you keep that as long as you can.

The Braves do need to try to find a way to unload Huddy’s contract. They just aren’t getting the kind of production they should from someone with that kind of contract.

As far as music goes, anyone listened to the album Ben Kweller just released? Pretty good stuff…in my opinion.

By Lew

September 27, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

VolFan-If I thought you were really serious, I would clobber you, but Dude, those suggestions(even the seemingly real ones) are so out in McCovey Cove that you just gotta be putting us on. I will say that one thing I’m concerned about is a definite tear it down and build it back up mentality from many here. Y’all-the Braves had a rotten year. Especially a rotten June. That beong said, however, we are not in terrible shape-either financially or talent-wise. Just a few small changes here and there is all we need. Wicky is signed-theat’s half our problem settled right there. Another starter and another decent set up guy and we’re good to go. Remember, the Mets have some making over also, and there track record for getting the right pieces is not reliable.

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Carlos Amato,

The evidence is that players generally peak around 26-27. Andruw and Giles are likely to remain productive, but they aren’t likely to get much better. And they are due for big pay raises. If the Braves can get several quality young players, it would be wise.

Why should the Braves trade veterans for young players when they already have plenty of solid young players and prospects? Well, some of those young players/prospects aren’t going to pan out. So you get more young player/prospects. And you trade players while their value is very high, right before they start to decline and start making a lot of money (become overvalued/overpaid).

Even if Andruw and Giles remain productive, depending on who the Braves get, 5-6 quality cheap young players are better than two productive expensive guys past their peak.

But I don’t think it would be a bad decision to hold on to Giles or AJ if they don’t get exactly the right young players/prospects. Like I said, both are likely to remain productive for a while. They are just going to get more expensive and less productive than they have been.

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Grinch: That’s one helluva fast workout.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

NPD/Stinky/Zimmerman, your most recent post exposes you as perhaps either the most honest person on the blog or the biggest hypocrite (depending on how you meant that first paragraph); regardless, that song was rather funny. I’m really leaving now.

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

Not sure about Davies. I’d trade HoRam, though because we can’t wait for his flashes of brilliance in between his months-long stint on the DL.

By Patrick

September 27, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

Chone Figgins DOB?

He’s batting .265.

For Andruw, it’d have to be Kendrick, Figgins and a top pitcher

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

Good Lord, which NL teams do we root for next week? I can’t bring myself to support the Phillies if they make the WC; same with the Mets, Padres, or Cards because of that manager of their’s. Maybe the West Coast Braves will make it.

By Dave knockahomer

September 27, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

For this year! LET’S GET TO 500 AND SPOIL AND HOUSTON HOPES! Go Smoltzie! For next year…..paramount need is starting rotation! Chucky J. may be okay, along with Smoltz, but after that, its a toss up. Trade all except those two and get at least one quality starter and fill in from there. Our lineup is okay…..yes, would like a true lead off man but don’t think that will happen.
And we need a good 3rd baseman to man the corner when Chipper is down and out. Aybar seems to be doing better but he ain’t no Wilson Betemit! DOB, eat good at that barbecue place ;0 Thank you for continuing to put up with us folk! And a finally thought: who in the blankety-blank thinks any NL team will win the Series? Look at the numbers….pitiful. The Mets have the highest rating but their pitching is so questionable, yet, the Braves had some of the best starting rotation around and only came home with one ring. GO BRAVES…..GET TO 500!!!

By Shaun

September 27, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

The Grinch,

Salty for Crawford isn’t going to happen. I’m just saying if I’m the Braves that’s the only trade I would consider involving Salty.

Davies has shown very little evidence of being a top-of-the-rotation pitcher in his 27 big-league starts. His numbers are far, far worse than those of Smotlz or Glavin in their first 2 years.

27 big league starts isn’t that many, certainly not enough to make any judgements about Davies’s career; especially considering he’s still in his early 20’s. Now, his 5-year minor league numbers are a pretty good indicator (barring injury). He’s posted great K/BB ratios and low HR rates in every pro season at the minor league level. And no matter what some people say, minor league stats are generally a good indicator of major league performance (if you look at the right numbers). I don’t know, I’d have to look at the numbers that matter to compare Davies to Smoltz and Glavine at his age (K rate, BB rate, HR rate). But I suspect Davies’s minor and major league numbers so far aren’t too far off of Smoltz or Glavine’s minor league numbers at similar points in their careers.

The odds are still against Davies becoming another Smoltz or Glavine because there’s always injury risks, but the odds of Davies becoming a solid pitcher soon, barring injury, I would think are pretty good.

By Lew

September 27, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Dude, I really appreciate that you’re a good Dude and never post anything but sincerely felt thoughts with (usually) good facts to back up your position. That has been really appreciated in recent days-HOWEVER-I will probably always be at odds with you, someway. Why do you think other teams are going to empty their farm systems to us for Andruw and Marcus? At the trade deadline, when teams customarily pay WAY too much for players to fill their holes, we were offered zilch for Andruw by a team that has one third of all God’s money. Why do you think anyone will offer any more in the offseason. Now people have gone almost apoplectic wanting Coco Crisp. The dude played in all of 105 games this year. He has missed much time to injury in all but one season he has played. His BA is ok, but he can’t hit RHP and certainly is not a replacement for Andruw. The other guy offered was Hansen, a rookie pitcher whop had no reall success in his limited career. When JS asked for Lester, a much more well thought of pitcher, he was turned down flat. The fact that Lester got sick is immaterial. It was a lousy deal. Why do you think it will get better when teams have time to really think?

By Jman

September 27, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Glad another UT fan has hit the Braves blog. I get tired off all the crazy Dawg fans in here.

But anyway. Unfortunately I think you give the Dawg fans reason to howl. Bonds could not be traded here unless the Giants sign him this offseason and then trade him, which doesnt happen in Baseball. Besides who wants Bonds and all his distractions.

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

Let’s look at the bright side: Wickman and Smoltz will be back in 2007. Thomson, Sosa, Reitsma and Pratt(hopefully), and Jordan will not.

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

Smotlz actually started pretty well. Not lights out like he now, but much better than I thought. I revisited all those stats a while back and was pleasantly surprised.

Aybar seems to be doing better but he ain’t no Wilson Betemit
Aybar is actually doing better than Betemit is right now. Most players excell under Cox’s supervision. Betemit is no exception. If Betemit were still here, I’d imagine he would be doing just as well or better than Aybar. But as it is, Aybar is out performing Betemit. Betemit is hitting around .250 with the Dodgers. Aybar is around .290 with the Braves.

By Carlos Amato

September 27, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

Shaun, point taken. Though I still prefer the mixture of vets and young guys.

Now, looking at what we have now (no trades, no free agent signings):

Starting Rotation: Smoltz Hudson Hampton James HoRam

Plus Cormier and Davies, who I think will start at AAA next season.

Bullpen: McBride Paronto Yates Vilarreal Foster Boyer Devine Wickman

Lineup: C- McCann 1B- La Roche 2B- Giles SS- Renteria 3B- CJ RF- Francouer CF- AJ LF- Diaz

Reserves: C- Pena 1B/LF- Thorman LF/CF- Langerhans 2B/SS- Pena Jr. 2B/3B- Aybar 2B- Prado 2B/SS- Orr

That’s still a playoff contender to me, considering a lightning bolt doesn’t strike the same spot twice (injury-prone season again).

By hk

September 27, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

DOB …

… way to go David, folks pretty much follow your lead in these matters … I’m guessing roughly two thirds of the posts lately have been related to our guy(s) … makes the total numbers look good, but not worth the price paid …

… we realize you have been between a rock and a hard place on this deal all season long, the real problem is one of corporate policy …

By rammerjammer

September 27, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

More on Juan Pierre, a favorite (apparently) of Ozzie Guillen and Dusty Baker.

Interesting that the Chicago beat writer didn’t mention Juan’s arm (or lack therof), but took a shot at Dave Roberts.

Here’s the link… http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/72254,CST-SPT-deluca26.article

By Fill-In for Robert While He's on Vacation

September 27, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

If most players excel under Cox, then why in hell are the Braves in fourth place? Why is Francoeur going to strike out like 150 times? Why is Andruw hovering around .260? Why has the bullpen blown so many saves and/or leads? Why has Marcus Giles been abysmal as a leadoff batter? What’s up with Tim Hudson under Cox?

Wee Willy Aybar hits one stinking homer, and you Cox apologists make out like Bobby swung the bat for him.

Donkeys on the blog! Hee-haw!!

By Bob, journalist

September 27, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

With appropriate sunglasses in place, perhaps “Our Man In Black” might find yet another good use for the Neuralizer.

Jimmy, methinks that Chipper should stay away from highheels and pointedtoe cowboy boots … corns and bunions are bad news but I imagine our General Hood wouldn’t have complained.

Lew, I don’t have any specific references readily available concerning Kelly Johnson’s work ethic … but, my impressions are based on comments and interviews during the early part of his struggles following his 2005 debut.

Don’t get me wrong … working hard doesn’t guarantee success … few of the buggy manufacturers who decided against switching to maiking cars survived … though many worked hard and produced fine buggies.

However, I like what I’ve seen of the ones I mentioned … time will tell. While I don’t like the uppercut swing of Marcus Giles, I suspect that he too has a work ethic that I would like.

The Molassas Candy was very good, and I’m truly grateful to Jimmy’s diligence in locating it for me! Although I was told that that for which I’ve been searching is a Southern treat; they’ve been making the Black Jack sticks in New England since 1830.

Lew, from what I’ve recently read on the Internet … Vermont Molassas Puff candy is probably close country kin to the candy we crave. I would be additionally in your debt if you could discover who makes the stuff!

There’s no good reason for us not to finish out the season with our heads held high … Go Braves!

By Dave knockahomer

September 27, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Tennesse Paul says:

Aybar seems to be doing better but he ain’t no Wilson Betemit Aybar is actually doing better than Betemit is right now. Most players excell under Cox’s supervision. Betemit is no exception. If Betemit were still here, I’d imagine he would be doing just as well or better than Aybar. But as it is, Aybar is out performing Betemit. Betemit is hitting around .250 with the Dodgers. Aybar is around .290 with the Braves. : —-thanks, man! I guess I have simply overlooked Aybar because of preference for ole Wilson! And probably Cox has alot to do with it. I shall check the stats next time before I go claiming things!

anybody gonna say who, but the Mets, has a chance at the NL title? I mean, most of the NL is pitiful.

but am wondering if the Tigers or Twins might, just might, dust off the Yankees?

By Bob, journalist

September 27, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Things are looking up already … Jimmy Smith seems alive and well … and lo and behold … it’s good to see Glass Half Full here too!

10 Paul, The Grinch is lucky … I’m not as fast, It takes me longer to get into and outof the tub!

Lunch awaits …

By Alan

September 27, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

I posted these thoughts on the last blog, but they bear repeating: The Braves should NOT trade Andruw or Marcus, particularly with the uncertainty over Chipper’s availability next year. Andruw’s BA may be low, but how on earth can you even think about trading away 40+ HRs and 120+ RBIs?! Who’s going to make up those numbers? Gregor Blanco? Chone Figgins? Don’t think so. Not even Carl Crawford will do that. As for Marcus, yeah, it’s been an “off year,” but still pretty productive. And I have a feeling that he’s going to bounce back with a terrific season in ‘07. I’d rather he do it in ATL than in LA or SD or someplace else. All the Braves have to do is get a leadoff hitter with speed (Figgins will do, as will Dave Roberts or Juan Pierre, and any of those guys can be had without giving up anything close to AJ or MG) and a reliable setup man for Wickman. Of course, it’ll help getting Hampton back along with the “former” Tim Hudson. The current Tim Hudson has been this season’s biggest disappointment - by far. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit to see him traded away - back to the AL, probably - maybe to the Angels or the Red Sox or the Yankees. Just like Marcus, though, I have a feeling he’ll also bounce back and it’d be nice if it’s here. I would hang onto Hudson. No blockbuster deals are required - just some “fine-tuning,” as JS would say.

By ncscoots

September 27, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

OK, you guys are starting to scare me a little. From Juan Pierre to Dave Roberts to Chone Figgins to I-shudder-to-think-who-will-be-next on the leadoff front. Good grief, if these are the top choices to replace Giles at the top of the order, give me Marcus any day. And while I’m a big Carl Crawford fan, I don’t see how you fit his salary in without trading some other similar-or-higher salary, and that just means you’re replacing parts, not adding to improve.

By Head Coach

September 27, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

Trading Davies(a pitcher) and Saltalamacchia( a catcher) for Crawford (an outfielder)is a bad idea , outfielders are a far easier to replace than pitching. In truth Ramirez , Davies and James should be untouchable. Young , talented and inexpensive pitchers are valuable and they will be needed. The Braves have used ten different starters this season and nine last season due to all the injuries. I keep saying it and most dont listen , trading pitching is a bad idea. If anything the Braves should be using Salty , Thorman and a couple of other top position players as trade bait to pick up more pitching.

By John Adcox

September 27, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Speaking of the man in black, why didn’t anyone ever tell me about the Dylan Cash sessions? Amazing. Better than amazing.

The free agent market for starting pitching looks bleak — aside from Jason Schmidt and Glavine, there doesn’t to be anyone who would be a significant upgrade from what we have, assuming Hampton revives and either HoRam or Davies is effective.

Any chance at a run for Schmidt?

John

By kg

September 27, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

Everyone seems to be forgetting about Johnson in left. He’s been on IR all year, but should be ready for next year. He’s better D than Diaz, but needs work with the wood. Could be used as trade bait.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

hello to all, journalist jimmy smith is back on the job! journalist bob, thank you for the kind words. journalist’s good name is still being used on this blog by others but journalist intends to maintain journalist’s dignity with no response. and speaking of dignity, let’s hope bobbycox will have tissues in the dugout with him tonight. now, toes … what of the idea of ham cans and ham juice? will we see a new therapy on-camera tonight? it is true that general hood paid no shoe tax. someone tell matthew it is okay to blog again. now, baseball … if pedro does well tonight and is healthy he will be game 1 starter for the mets. bloggers will remember that pedro wore the big red shoe at the beginning of this season. will we see a big red shoe in atlanta next year? toes are not to be trifled with.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

oh, i forgot to mention that I’m a donkey. Oh the humanity!

By So. Cal Braves Fan

September 27, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

I see the Mets falling into the same pattern the Braves have had in the past entering the playoffs…Giant lead, no reason to play the regulars or play hard, thinking they can turn it back on and then running into a team that had to play it’s butt off to win it’s division or the wild card and getting smoked. …just a thought, gotta root for the team in our division now I guess

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

remember the name annabelle sanchez. this journalist thinks the braves should acquire annabelle sanchez during the off-season. also, dan uggla and dontrelle willis. in return, we can send several “p” players to the marlins. sounds like a trade to this journalist. the braves should hire joe girardi. you read it here. journalist out.

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Head Coach: Actually it’s 12 starters. 12. Twelve freaking starters. The rotation hasn’t made it through 3 turns without one pitcher being replaced at least once. Not to mention the skipped starts when we did everything possible to prevent the likes of Smith, Sheill or Barry taking the mound in the first inning.

I agree. We have young pitching, and we shouldn’t trade it unless the deal pulls in something down right incredible. But we’ll see.

By hk

September 27, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

… have been plotting team batting averages and Braves era’s during games all season, it has been fun to watch the curves move up and down from inning to inning … looking at them one last time …

… since the day Wickman arrived, Braves starting pitcher era has been second worst in the league (4.95) while total reliever era has been second best (3.77) …

… Atlanta has blown 29 saves … the rest of the league varies from 13 to 27, averaging 20.6 … if Atlanta had only blown 21, the league average, they would now be 11 games over .500, one game up in the wild card race today …

… team batting average of .271 is second in the league behind LA at .274, best in the league since Wickman arrived (.279)

click here for curves

By Alan

September 27, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

No offense, HC, but trading Salty and Thorman and “other top position players” will not yield much more pitching - certainly no one as good as Hampton or Hudson. You’ve said it yourself in the past - the Braves have a lot of starting pitchers - the question is, how good are they? I submit, though, that the Braves’ projected rotation for ‘07 (Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James, and either Davies, Ramirez, Thomson if he’s re-signed cheaply, or even Cormier) is as good or even better than any other team’s in the NL, with the possible exception of the Astros. And NC, any one of those proposed leadoff hitters - Roberts, Figgins, Pierre - will be a huge improvement over Giles as a leadoff hitter - much more speed for openers. Giles is much happier (and I dare say more productive, although I don’t have stats in front of me) in the 2nd hole. Frankly, when Chipper’s not in the lineup, I’d sooner see Giles in the 3rd spot than Renteria. I think Giles would thrive in that spot, which is another reason not to trade him.

By midnite

September 27, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

It would be nice to see the Braves finish up at .500. Maybe we can offer the ‘stros a little payback for that horrific extra inning nightmare in the ‘05 NLDS. On the issue of BBQ, my favorite is BBQ Street in Kennesaw (I-75 exit 273 go west 1/2 mi on right) Great Brunswick Stew and fried catfish. We all knew this streak would have to end, I for one don’t buy into this junk about how winning 14 division titles and only 1 WS Championship is a failure. Does anyone believe that feat can ever be accomplished again by any team in any pro sport.

By Matthew

September 27, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

Jimmy:

See my comments on the WBTS generals on yesterday’s blog. Will check in tomorrow.

Go Braves!

By Ricardo

September 27, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

I’ve seen several postings on this blog regarding Andruw reching his prime at 28, 29 yrs old. This guy is who he is and might soon to be on the backside of his career. He came up at 19 yo, when most guys his age are just moving to AA ball. He is old in baseball years and as much as I like him, I’d trade him while there is still value to be had. He’s a good player, but a team like the Braves needs payroll flexibility and if we can get some talen for him, you’ve got to very seriously consider it. While he’s still a force in center, he’s lost a step and isn’t even the best center fielder in the division - that’d be Carlos Beltran. He’s also one of the more frustrating players to watch hit. I’ll grant that his #s typically look good at the end of the year, but how many times have you seen him swing at junk down and out of the zone?

By ncscoots

September 27, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Alan, on previous blogs, I swore I wasn’t gonna moan anymore about various players being touted as “better leadoff hitters” than Giles, etc. But “huge improvement”? Let’s see… OBP: DR-.360, JP-.330, CF-.334, Giles .347…SLG: DR-.398, JP-.390, CF-.367, Giles .395 … So the only guy even CLOSE to improving over Giles’ numbers is Roberts, who is 34 or so, while Giles is 28 or so. And Giles plays better defense at his position than any of the others at their position (though maybe I should not include Figgins in that; it’s hard to talk about the quality of his defense at a single position, so scratch that remark about him). Finally, I believe Giles’ historical norms are higher than this year’s stats (an off-year, in other words) and the other three players are having typical years (but I haven’t checked that, so I might be wrong).

So, if, in your opinion, a leadoff hitter is an offseason need to be filled, I don’t think that the names mentioned are the guys you want to be looking at as an “improvement”.

By MGL

September 27, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

For the stat folks - Quality starts vs games started (6 or more INN, 3 or less ER)

JS 23/34 TH 13/34 CJ 11/17 JT 5/15 HR 8/14 KD 3/13 LC 4/8

Total for above 67/135. There appear to be some starts missing other than the spot starters, but this is from MLB.com

By Spider29

September 27, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks man! I’ve been reading but not responding for a couple of weeks. It just got too ornery and contentious on here. The proposed trades discussed on the blog today are really interesting. I like the ones (proposed) with the Angels but I’d sure hate to lose Andruw. But please, let some other team take on Bonds and all his baggage. As several folks have posted, the Braves are only a couple of pitchers and a speedy lead-off man from being back on top of the NL East. I totally agree that the Braves and Mets will fight it out next season. The other three teams in the division will be tough as well, especially the Marlins. No matter if the Braves are 18 up or 18 back it is always great to beat the big rival team 12 to nothing! I am proud that the Braves have not quit and are still playing hard. Maybe that means nothing to some people but it shows that the guys have a lot of pride. As for the Mets in the division series…they have a great offense but better hope the starting pitching gets well. Seems I remember in 2003 when the Braves had an awesome offensive team but ran into a couple of hot, hard-throwing pitchers in Chicago that our bats got cooled off in a hurry. The remaining teams in the other division and wild-card races have good pitching. It will be interesting!

By Chop Chop

September 27, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! It’s been a while since I’ve blogged here. Unlike some people, I wasn’t driven away by unsavory posts and/or discussions. I’ve just been busy with work.

As far as the Braves’ season goes, it has ended up the way I thought it would. It’s just a shame that we wasted this kind of hitting. It’s been a number of years since a Braves team could hit like this. Next year certainly isn’t the sure thing that some fans seem to believe. This team has a lot of work to do to get better. We’ll see what Schuerholz has left in the tank this offseason.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 27, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Where do all you “Andruw’s lost a step” proponents get this stuff? Becasue he doesn’t hustle to first often? He still gets a better jump and make more putouts than anyone. I think you’ve just become so accustomed to watching him make great plays over the years that you take him for granted.

Is he Willie Mays? No, and he never was. But he’s still the best there is right now in center field, bar none. Beltran would be embarrassed to be seriously compared to him.

By P Dub Braves fan

September 27, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

kg: I don’t think your giving Johnson enough credit for his bat. Johnson was actually known for his bat coming up through the minors. He’s got excellent plate discipline, as well as some pretty good pop. From what i saw in his rookie season, i’m pretty confident he’ll hit. He’s a decent defensive outfielder, probably better than Diaz, but not as good as Langerhans.

By Ricardo

September 27, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

Tom A Hawk -

AJ is one of my favorites, but the years have taken a toll - just my opinion. And, when you take the offense and the defense together, Beltran is the better player - right now and in the future(I wouldn’t have made that argument before this year). Still, the underlying them is the flexibility this might give them. I really think that any team that has a 90 mill payroll (counting contributions of other teams) should be capable of winning - if the money could be more evenly distributed. We are too top heavy w/bloated deals like CJ, MH, etc. and Andruw probably has the most value.

By Carlos Amato

September 27, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

Hey, could we do a cientific experiment, by mixing Diaz’s (bat) and Langerhans’ (defense) brain cells, thus creating a hibrid monster called Diangerhans? That should solve our problems at LF.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

yes, it is matthew. he is correct that general gordon touched sword to toe. this would not have been possible for general hood, however. this is sufficient authentication for this journalist. matthew also correctly reported that chad paronto(e)’s nick-name as given by baseball almanac is “none”. yes, this is the right matthew. welcome back. now, baseball … tim hudson needs a victory to avoid his first losing season. will he last five innings? or will he dazzle? which tim hudson will appear? now, pie … it is time for pumpkin pie to appear on menus and in grocery stores. can mince meat be far behind?

By rammerjammer

September 27, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

Re: Leadoff man

Some stats that may have been overlooked:

1. Runs scored by leadoff man: Pierre, 84; Giles, 85.
2. Runs scored by team: Cubs, 694; Braves, 821.
3. Stolen bases by leadoff man: Pierre, 57; Giles, 10.

How is it that Pierre can match Giles in runs scored, yet the Cubs are 28th as a team and the Braves are 5th? Could it be that speed actually manufactures runs?

Just a thought.

By BB FAN

September 27, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves have the right core group of guys already. They just need to add a player or two. With Smoltz making 3 million less and the contracts of Jordan, Pratt, Sosa, Reitsma, Thomson, ect. gone, the Braves should have an extra 15 million or so for raises and Wickman.

The first thing the Braves should do is find a taker for Tim Hudson. These small, frail pitchers are killing the them with all the missed time and ineffectiveness. I would accept 1 or 2 low level minor league pitchers for him just to get out of the sizable contract that gets too expensive after 2007. I think a team will take him if they only owe him 6 million next year.

Next, I would trade Marcus Giles (3.85 mill in 2006) as much as I hate to. He will likely make 5 million next year and Aybar/Prado can do fine at 2B a lot cheaper. I would try to get a good bullpen arm for him.

I would then sign Dave Roberts or Kenny Lofton to hit lead off. Each should sign for ~ 3 million a year. And neither would probably require more than a 2 year commitment. The team needs a lead hitter that can generate runs when the big bats are in a slump.

Next I would either sign Jason Schmidt or trade for Dontrelle Willis. The team needs another top of the rotaion pitcher. Schmidt may be too expensive. I think Willis would be the perfect fit (salary and talent wise)and I really think the Marlins would trade Willis for the right package of players. I would include H Ramirez, Salty and Davies in the trade for Willis and try to get them to throw in a young bullpen arm. Trading Ramirez would free up some more money (2.2 mill) too.

I would then package Thorman (as much as I hate to), Lerew and maybe Luis Hernandez for a Jake Westbrook or similar type of pitcher. He is relatively young (29) and doesn’t make that much (4.25 million) and has been effective in the AL. I think he would make a great 4th or 5th starter for the Braves.

I would resign Daryle Ward if there was enough money left over as he is a great hitter off the bench.

I think the bullpen really started to come together after Wickman was acquired. But Yates, Ray and Villerreal got a little tired but they were all coming off injuries. Then with Boyer coming back and Devine showing some promise, and better starting pitching, I think the bullpen can be a strong one.

I don’t think any of these ideas are too far fetched. None of them are completely out of the question.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

and i forgot to mention, i’m still a donkey. Oh the humanity!

By TC

September 27, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

DOB: In case you didn’t know about this, I thought you would be interested in what I discovered on emusic today. Anyway, they have a free advance download from a forthcoming Tom Waits CD (November). It sounds really good. Check it out. Hope it’s okay to link stuff like this. Thought you might want to hear it.

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer: Don’t know how this affects those stats. But not all of Giles runs were scored while he was batting leadoff. Or did you restrict the data set to just runs scored while batting leadoff?

By Shaun Payne

September 27, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Dude, I really appreciate that you’re a good Dude and never post anything but sincerely felt thoughts with (usually) good facts to back up your position. That has been really appreciated in recent days-HOWEVER-I will probably always be at odds with you, someway. Why do you think other teams are going to empty their farm systems to us for Andruw and Marcus? At the trade deadline, when teams customarily pay WAY too much for players to fill their holes, we were offered zilch for Andruw by a team that has one third of all God’s money. Why do you think anyone will offer any more in the offseason. Now people have gone almost apoplectic wanting Coco Crisp. The dude played in all of 105 games this year. He has missed much time to injury in all but one season he has played. His BA is ok, but he can’t hit RHP and certainly is not a replacement for Andruw. The other guy offered was Hansen, a rookie pitcher whop had no reall success in his limited career. When JS asked for Lester, a much more well thought of pitcher, he was turned down flat. The fact that Lester got sick is immaterial. It was a lousy deal. Why do you think it will get better when teams have time to really think?

Well, I think a team may be willing to trade a prospect/young player if they are loaded with talent at that position and feel that they could use a veteran like AJones to get them into the playoffs and World Series. For instance, I can see the White Sox giving up Brian Anderson because they already have a young stud centerfielder in Sweeney. I think the Angels would give up one of their infield prospects. No, a team is not going to empty their farm system, but they may not have to for the Braves to get a good deal.

And I think the Lester, Hansen, Crisp deal (if true), would have been fine for the Braves. You get two quality young pitchers and a solid centerfielder. Crisp is not really as bad as he’s looked this season.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

okay, let’s put it on the table … what about third base next year? sore toes that are not corrected remain sore toes. if they are too sore for chipper to play, then who will play third base? chipper may be able to strengthen other parts of his body but what about the toes? journalist has warned about toes all season but journalist takes no satisfaction in seeing such a talented hitter troubled by sore toes. how many troubling toes is yet to be determined - at least two, possibly as many as four. of course, could just be a rumor. now, aybar, prado, orr, or someone still on the farm … giles maybe? who will play third base next year if/when chipper goes down? how does the team replace the bat and the production? and what became of andy marte? is he on a ml roster yet?

By Slide Sid!

September 27, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

Diangerhans! There is a truly inventive idea. Where do we start?

By Slide Sid!

September 27, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

Carlos. The Braves would also be saving a roster spot with Diangerhans on the team. They could carry another pitcher while they are waiting for one of the starters to get hurt. Someone needs to e-mail JS.

By BB FAN

September 27, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

About Hudson in the earlier postthat I wrote. It was supposed to say: “I think a team will take him if they only owe him 6 million next year before it balloons for 2008 and 2009 (I think 14 million each).”

By Shaun Payne

September 27, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

• 1. Runs scored by leadoff man: Pierre, 84; Giles, 85.
  2. Runs scored by team: Cubs, 694; Braves, 821.
  3. Stolen bases by leadoff man: Pierre, 57; Giles, 10.*

How is it that Pierre can match Giles in runs scored, yet the Cubs are 28th as a team and the Braves are 5th? Could it be that speed actually manufactures runs?

Easy—Pierre has batted leadoff in 158 games. Giles has played in only 137 games. Pierre has 717 PA at leadoff, Giles 518.

Giles has a better on-base percentage and hits in a better lineup but has scored fewer runs for the simple reason that Pierre has had many more opportunities to score because he’s had almost 200 more plate appearances.

That goes back to the fact that traditional stats are vastly overrated. This is a perfect illustration of that point. It’s much better to look at PA, AVG/OBP/SLG, and ballpark to determine a player’s true value.

I’m not saying Pierre was less valuable this year. Baseball Prospectus estimates he was slightly more valuable (by only about 3 runs) because he was in the lineup more often.

By SAL

September 27, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

Should be an interesting off season. Braves could choose to go for a short term fix by adding a couple of veterans while keeping AJ, Chipper & Hudson. They could look at where AJ and/or Chipper will be production and health wise in the next few years and look to get good younger players through a trade or two in exchange for one of the Jones.

If I had a vote, I would go the younger player route. May not be certain to make post season in 2007, but could set up the next long run of post season appearances. Renteria, Francour, McCann, & LaRoche, could be the heart of the order for several years. Add a leadoff hitter and the Braves could contend provided the pitching holds up, especially the bullpen.

By ncscoots

September 27, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this

uh, rammer, you might also want to check the number of plate appearances for each player, and calculate runs scored per plate appearance, or per AB, or whatever. Since JP has a TON more appearances than Giles, I think we can say that it took Pierre MORE, not fewer, opportunities to score the same number of runs. And wouldn’t scoring more runs in fewer opportunities be the definition of manufacturing runs?

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

esteemed donkey, i mean journalist jimmy smith wonders if everyone notices my obsession with toes. how much do i love toes? are toes tasty? toes are not to be trifled with. journalist was once arrested for stalking toes of DOB. once dob realized it was journalist jimmy, dob let him go. Oh the humanity!

By Shaun Payne

September 27, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

Oh, and both Giles and Pierre had down years. Giles actually has the better OBP and SLG. Giles has created more R/27 Outs in their careers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runs_Created

By ncscoots

September 27, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

the blog tech problems strike again…I wouldn’t have posted my lat post if I had HAD A CHANCE TO SEE SHAUN’S FIRST!!! Geez, this sucker is irritating. Sorry, rammer, I wasn’t trying to pile on there about JP…

By Shaun Payne

September 27, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

Oh, and both Giles and Pierre had down years. Giles actually has the better OBP and SLG. Giles has created more R/27 Outs in their careers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runs_Created

By ncscoots

September 27, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this

the blog tech problems strike again…I wouldn’t have posted my lat post if I had HAD A CHANCE TO SEE SHAUN’S FIRST!!! Geez, this sucker is irritating. Sorry, rammer, I wasn’t trying to pile on there about JP…

By Shaun Payne

September 27, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

I don’t the the Braves have to make a choice between going the “young player route” or the “veteran player route.” I think they should trade the veterans that they can trade and get value for. I could be wrong, but it seems they could trade AJones, Giles and maybe Hudson and get 6-10 quality young players that can help them as much or more in the long run given their salary situations and ages. It’s not about going with young players or veteran players. It’s about payroll and roster efficiency.

By ncscoots

September 27, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

good grief, and a double post to boot. Sorry, folks…

By Zimmerman

September 27, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this

You must compete now

Take who you need

You think will last.

But whoever you wish to keep

you better grab them fast.

Yonder stands Minaya with his cash.

And, Lord, it’s so much bigger than our stash.

Look out! Phils and Marlins coming through!

And it all over now, red-and-blue.

By Lew

September 27, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Come on Dude. Lester was NOT offered and was, in fact, a deal breaker with the Sox. Youy say that Crisp is a solid player despite a bad season? Wrong, Dude-here are his CAREER stats .282 BA (whoopie), 43HR (three more thatn Andruw this year) 212 RBI (less than Andruw has in 2 years) 76SB while 33CS (not a great percentage, nor a great number for 4 years) and a career OBP of .329. You are going to replace Andruw with this? Not to mention that he has played 99 games, 139 games, 145 games and 105 games in 4 years. His best year he missed 17 games and as much as 63 games per season. Andruw hasn’t missed 17 games (damn near) in his entire career. This is an insane deal. The stats show it.

By Lew

September 27, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

Shaun-And Hansen is 2-2 in 37 games, with an ERA of 6.69. He has given up 46 hits and walked 15 in 37 innings. Isn’t this more of what we’re trying to avoid next year? He and Crisp for Andruw. No way. No one is going to offer two stud kid pitchers (much less Santana and Figgins) for Andruw. Just won’t happen.

By Matthew

September 27, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Jimmy:

What do you think about the Diangerhans idea? Would that result in twenty toes for the new left fielder?

As for Chipper, I love how unselfish he has been in restructuring his contract, and if we knew he could stay healthy I would never say what I am about to say. With the emergence of Adam Laroche at 1B, there really isn’t any less mobile position for Chipper to play in Atlanta. Maybe he needs to be added to the Diangerhans clone to provide the swagger and championship experience that Dias and Langerhans are missing? So, ladies and gentlemen, playing left field for the Atlanta Braves: Chipper Diangerhans!

Seriously, if he cannot stay healthy, maybe we could work out a deal for him to DH for the Angels, throw in one of our AA shortstop prospects, and get Santana in return. Remote if not impossible I know, and I like Chipper and would hate to lose him, but it may be the only way for the Braves to get consistency at 3B and for Chipper to prolong his career and HOF credentials.

Any thoughts or variations on this deal? Anyone else we want to add to this clone LF?

Have a great day!

By Shaun Payne

September 27, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Yes, I know Epstein and Co. didn’t want to give up Lester. My point is if they could have received Lester, Hansen and Crisp, it wouldn’t have been a bad deal for the Braves.

I think Crisp’s value is in his salary. Crisp is not going to put up the big numbers, which means you don’t have to pay him as much. But he’s still solid for a centerfielder. And you can afford to sacrifice a little offense in center. My guess is the Red Sox wanted to get Crisp because they figured he can give them the most production on the dollar. They could then use the money they saved on some big time players at other positions. And also, they probably liked his defense.

But I agree, Crisp is no AJones.

Still, this would have been an okay deal for the Braves because Lester and Hansen would add some young pitching depth.

By Lew

September 27, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

Chipper abd Andruw will veto trades under the 10-5 rule. Why not take them at their word that they want to stay and have the final word on it?

By Jai

September 27, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

First the braves need to get a new 2nd baseman. Giles just isn’t cutting it. They need someone who can hit on a daily bases. They need to address the outfield issue as well. Langerhans and Diaz can play as backup but they must hit the market and get a decent outfielder. Maybe pickup another starting pitcher if the price is right and let Ramirez go. They just need to really work with the guys in the bullpen. The bullpen is not that bad compared to the beginning of the season. Roger just needs to work with the guys in the off-season. Just don’t invite Reitsma back come spring training. Let the cancer GO. There is no cure for what he as which is bad chemistry. The guy cannot pitch to save his life and it’s time Bobby Cox let him go and ruin another team. Maybe this season is a wake up call for next year. I believe the Braves were a little too comfortable in their own skin. Making the playoffs every year assuming no one would beat them. Before they had problems with making it to the 2nd round. Now they have an even bigger problem. GETTING BACK TO THE POST SEASON. All hope is not lost but they must address the issues above in order to get back to the playoffs & WS. The Braves still have a good team and they still have me as 1 of their FANS. To all my Brave Hearts we will get back and will go beyond the 1st round next year.

By Shaun Payne

September 27, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Hansen hasn’t looked that great, but remember he hasn’t even been in pro ball two seasons. He was just drafted last June. It’s way too early to judge Hansen.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

Lew, you can’t argue stats with Shaun; he argues straight from the gut with FEELING. Numbers mean nothing to him! I’m just messin’ with ya Shaun; I’ll quit pilin’ on. You’re actually one of the few here who applies a reasonable attitude to discussion, whether or not I agree with you.
10Paul: I had to have a pre-workout sandwich before I left! You wouldn’t want me passing out on the excersise bike, now would you?

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

Jmain, Escobar could definitely be included in a trade this winter. Don’t know if D-Rays have interest, but he’s good, young, cheap and Cuban, all things that work well with the Tampa Bay angle (they have a large Cuban population there, for what it’s worth).

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

My thought is, Chipper isn’t going to be traded. He’s 10-5. He’s a Brave icon. He’s very productive when on the field. And he’ll probably play in more games next year than he has in the last two (not combined obviously. Althought that’d make for one helluva season.) The best option is to make sure we have a solid back up just in case. Aybar has been filling in nicely. He doesn’t he with the power that Chipper does, but he manages it well enough. This is why I think Chone would be a valuable addition. Just not at the expense of Andruw. Keep Andruw and work a deal for Chone in some other way.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

Matthew, I’d be scared to put Chipper into that cloned monstrosity. What if it turned out to have 10 toes on one foot and two on the other? He could only field in circles! If it wound up with Chipper’s toes, Langy’s bat and Diaz’ glove…maybe Shaun could find a way to trade him straight up for Pujols! Love ya, Shaun! Where is Bob?

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

Georgetown, I don’t know how Davies could possibly damage his trade value any further. He’s been absurdly bad _ 8.25 ERA, .335 opponents average, 85 hits, 27 walks, 14 homers in 60 innings….

I agree, D-Rays will want more than Salty and Davies for Crawford. If the Braves could get him, he’d be a helluva an addition. Not a protypical leadoff guy, though, with only 36 walks and .346 OBP this year. But 15 triples, 18 homers, 56 steals in 65 attempts, .303 batting average … yeah, that’ll work. Also a Nice No. 3 hitter if Andruw is traded and Chipper has to bat fourth, but that’s getting ahead of ourselves a bit.

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

Zimmerman, I gotta hand it to you, that was OUTSTANDING.

Despite the reference to hacks having his back (wink). I don’t condone bringing in Chipper’s past vis-a-vis the waitress, but hey, can’t argue with the artist’s vision. Good stuff, man.

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

Lew, agreed on Kings of Leon and the Truckers, although My Morning Jacket is the critics’ darling. I like ‘em, but I’m with you, I’ll take Kings of Leon or the Drive-By Truckers.

Saw Kings of Leon with Secret Machines (good band from Austin) at the Fillmore in San Francisco last year after a day game. Great night. Kings of Leon are excellent live. Really, really solid.

Saw My Morning Jacket down four years ago in the old Cotton Club when it was in the basement of the Tabernacle. Good show, but not Kings-good.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun, Pierre’s scoring less runs that Giles probably has more to do with who’s been hitting behind Pierre all season as opposed to Giles. Pierre is a much better option at leadoff because of the variety of ways he can get on base and what havoc he can cause once he gets on base.

Now, for the Angles stuff. I have been saying for three months that a possible trade with the Angels could be in the works. Its a trade that would fill holes for both teams. Yes, the production Andruw provides would be hard to replace but that production could be more evenly spread. If they aren’t going to move those fences in, then the Braves have to assemble an offense that is more represenative of the park. The Ted is not a home run park but a pitchers and gap hitters park. The Braves get some guys who can slap the ball around and split those gaps with speed then you will see just as many and more runs scored. Its not a mystery as to why the team plays better on the road than at home. They play at a lot more hitter friendly parks than The Ted is.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this

orr is cuban, right? send him to tampa bay for more pitching. when fredi gonzales leaves chipper can be moved to third base coach. braves trivia: what braves player suffered a shoulder disclocation while waving a runner to the plate? who remembers? oh, and about left field, diaz is hitting .334. he is your left fielder. of course, tonight bobby starts a guy hitting .238. now, what kinds of noises does escobar make? could it be worse than bobby?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Lew, I would love for Andruw to stay. I really would. I would love for him to stay even at the expense of making the team more well rounded, which I think the right trade could do. I know he says he wants to be a Brave for life. However, I really don’t take his word for it. If he is truly sincere, then get a deal done this winter and sign for $14 mil with some incentives that can’t be included in the payroll. If he refuses to sign an extension now, which would help the orginization greatly, and waits until after the end of next season then you have to question just how sincere he is.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Y’all, I just went over to ESPN.com and I SWEAR this is a headline: “Yanks to put Wang on the mound for playoffs.” Hoo-hoo! Shouldn’t the players wait ‘till after the games to do that to conserve energy? Bwah-ha-ha-ha!

By Stinky

September 27, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

Can we trade journalist jimmy for a cuban?

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this

grinch, the point about fielding in circles is well made. “there’s a chopper to chipper, he moves to his left … left, left, and he’s spinning left … still spinning left …” chipper is again in the lineup tonight - let’s hope he will not again be a last minute scratch - at least not on television. now, jeff torborg may say “farhead” but at least he does not say “you know, you know, farhead” like ron gane. who remembers the mysterious farhead injury to tim hudson earlier this season? “do you see how red his farhead is, bob? I think there’s something wrong with his farhead that’s making his pitches hang in the strike zone.”

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

BB Fan, just a couple things from your post: Hudson didn’t hurt them with missing time; he’s pitched 212 innings entering tonight’s start. He’s just been mediocre to bad too often, and that’s the problem with trying to trade him and get someone to pick up his entire contract.

But hey, Schuerholz has shown a willingness to break with his customary way of doing things in order to sign Wickman early and pick up Smoltz’s option earlier than necessary, so maybe they’d break with tradition and pick up a bit of a player’s contract they’re dealing away. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

They really, really need Hudson to have a bounceback year and then deal him before his big salary kicks in, but again, wouldn’t hold my breath.

No way on Kenny Lofton. He didn’t fit here the first time in the clubhouse, so they’re not going to bring him back. Roberts, I agree, is a solid option, despite his age.

Schmidt will be too expensive, as you say, but so will Dontrelle probably. He’s making $4.35 mill this year inhis first arbitraton-eligible season, and again will get a big raise.

But you know what, the Braves might have a LOT of money cleared up, fortunately or unfortunately, if they trade Andruw. And I’d bet the house they’re trading Giles. Well, maybe not the house. The car.

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this

That headline could never beat one I saw for an article about a certain Angels’ pitcher: “Colon takes another pounding.”

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this

Carlos, I like your Diangerhans idea.

It’s too bad Langerhans was so underwhelming at the pate this year, because his defense is outstanding in every regard. But a .238 average with 7 homers in 307 at-bats … that’s rough.

Still, I think he’ll end up being a good player someday. Really do. Just don’t know if Braves can afford to have patience and keep him around next year.

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this

JJS, Aybar is a third-base option for Chipper’s DL stints, but he’s not been too impressive defensively. I think Braves will try to trade for a super-utility type guy (Figgins always comes to mind) who could play there. Another possibility: Julio Lugo.

He’s played 2B-3B-SS and some OF this year, and batting .280 with 12 homers and 24 SBs in 421 at-bats. He could certainly help.

By Shaun Payne

September 27, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

Shaun, Pierre’s scoring less runs that Giles probably has more to do with who’s been hitting behind Pierre all season as opposed to Giles. Pierre is a much better option at leadoff because of the variety of ways he can get on base and what havoc he can cause once he gets on base.

Robert(Justice Is The Best),

Actually Pierre has scored more runs this season almost certainly because he’s been in the lineup more often. If Pierre can get on base in so many more ways, why does he have a .355 career OBP as opposed to Giles who has a career .366 OBP? Don’t you think if Pierre was better at getting on base, he would have a better career on-base percentage?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this

I think the Angels, Mariners, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Astros, and Cardinals are all good potential trade partners. I would also love for JS to somehow swing a deal for Melkey Cabrerra from the Yanks. He really could be the odd man out next season with Matsui in LF, Damon in CF, Abreu in RF, and if Sheffield’s option is exercised he would be the DH/1B along with Giambi. I really think the Yanks would consider Tim Hudson and even Horacio because he’s cheap and those never ending gaps in LC and RC could help him keep the ball in the park.

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this

HK, excellent stats regarding bullpen and starters’ ERA since Wick arrived. he’s made a huge difference; too bad the deal didn’t get down three weeks earlier, but I really don’t think Cleveland was ready to dump guys that soon.

If only Braves had known Sosa and Thomson would both stink this year, could’ve dumped one or both last winter and given Wickman another mill or two and signed him then.

Of course, GMing would be easy with hindsight….

By the way, saw today in Chicago paper that Pierre is seriously considering the White Sox. Loves Chicago, sounds like he’s ready to stay with one team or another. I wouldn’t pay what it’s going to cost to get that no-power, no-arm dude, especially since his low OBP isn’t ideal for leadoff. I’d like to have him, but only at a far lower price than he’s going to ask. Besides, with him in left, Diaz’s playing time is virtually non-existent. And if they trade Andruw, Braves need someone far better than Pierre to replace him, in my opinion. Can’t go from 45 homers to 5, not that homers are the be-all, end-all.

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, Escobar whistles. All the time. Drives everyone nuts, and now the Braves have told him to stop, which he has.

He’s going to play in the Arizona Fall League, perhaps to showcase him for trade.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 08:04 PM | Link to this

Got me on that one, GHF; sounds like the Mets clubhouse locker room…

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this

Rober (JIB), Hudson’s salary certainly wouldn’t scare Yanks if they believed a move back to AL might help, but again, I don’t think they’d give up anything if they agreed to pick up the contract.

They obviously don’t mind overpaying for pitchers, never have. Just Farnsworth and Jaret Wright, to name two recent ex-Braves who went there for small fortunes.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this

DOB, I think it would be worth it to ship Hudson to the Yanks for nothing; the freed-up salary could buy us a more consistent #4 starter. He’s worth what he’ll be making next year, but no way in hell is he worth what he’s owed after that, especially considering our payroll situation.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I see your point. What I’m trying to say is that Pierre is much more dangerous on the bases than Giles. Giles may have an higher OBP but Pierre is the type of guy that can get on base and go from 1st to 3rd without one hit or out having to be made. Same with a Dave Roberts or Carl Crawford. You can’t tell me that Giles can do the same. I cringe everytime I even think that he is thinking about trying to steal a base. Giles is a hustler and if it were practical and sensible I would love for him to stay but he is not a leadoff hitter nor will he ever be. And, yes, a leadoff hitter is vital to a good offense. Just ask the Yanks, Dodgers, and Mets.

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this

Here’s to 3 and out for the Mets next week…mmmmmm, tasty.

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t free agency begin the day after the World Series?

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this

a whistling infielder … what a novelty! this could be good for the game. consider the tennis players who now grunt all the time. no one did that before and now everybody’s grunting and groaning. whistling is not so bad. and how would chipper whistle back with a mouth full of seeds, gum, and tobacco? this is an interesting possibility - why would they stop a whistling infielder from whistling? they permit spitting, scratching, picking, and adjusting - why not whistling? and if carolina lady is out there tonight - journalist knows carolina lady would favor a whistling infielder. could put him in slant-top with the sunflower design. bird, right?

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this

If the Cards collapse continues and the Astros slip past them, does LaRussa get canned?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I’m with you. I’m almost at the point (tonight’s game so far withstanding) that it would be worth sending him to the Yanks for some of their jobber minor leaguers. The freed up $ 6 mil could be used to sign a good solid starter or be enough to get Dontrelle Willis perhaps. Heck with that money the Braves could sign Glavine or Maddux. I happen to think the Mets will exercise Glavine’s contract unless he chokes in the playoffs, in which case he wouldn’t be allowed back in NY.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this

Speaking of canned hams…

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

hilarious…pedro getting rocked

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this

Glass Half Full, I think LaRussa is like Cox and Botchy (to some degree). He would have to do a lot more than have one late regular season collapse to be fired. He is almost a cult figure in the “Lou” and the fact of the matter is if the NL Central was a better divison the Cards would have been displaced two months ago. They haven’t been a good team since before the break but because the teams under them are even worse their shortcomings got ignored. The Cards have had the same problems the Braves have had, but the only difference is the Braves had to conted with good teams like the Phillies, Mets, and Marlins while the Cards only had to worry about the underachieving Astros, the overachieving Reds, and the Brewers, Pirates, and Cubs speak for themselves.

By Calvin

September 27, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

The Mets have to be worried about Pedro. His second start since coming off the DL results in him giving up 7 runs, all earned, on 8 hits. I don’t see how they can get out of the first round without good consistent pitching.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this

I know the Mets’ fans will say that these games don’t matter and the Braves are lucky. But, I think the Braves team is showing that they aren’t just lying down and dying, they are letting the Mets know they are still around and to look out next season, and most importantly for Mets fans they are showing the vast shortcomings of the Mets team. Say what you will about this being a meaningless game, but it isn’t for Pedro. This is his last chance to get into true game shape for the postseason. Honestly, does he look “in shape” to you? Because I personally like Pedro and not the cocky orginization and fans he plays for, I hope he comes out and sets the world on fire in the postseason, but does anyone really see that happening? Folks, by next Sunday the Mets will be home wondering what happened to their wonderful season if they don’t get this fixed and fixed immediatedly.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this

don’t get too cocky just yet. hudson has lost a seven run lead before.

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

Not me. I want to see Pedro get shelled every time he pitches (even during his Red Sox days).

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this

There’s just something about Pedro, LaRussa, and Miguel Cabrerra I don’t like.

By Glass Half Full

September 27, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

oh, I forgot Phil Garner and Biggio

By Lew

September 27, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this

RJIB-I was referring to 07 only in regards to Andruw-He either signs for 08 and beyond or not. If not we get two supplemental picks and have the $14 mil to spend on someone else. It doesn’t bother me seeing free agents leave without trading them first. No big deal. You get their performance, then their slary. But for this year, I don’t see Andruw accepting a trade. Shaun-I see your point in regards to Hansen, but my point was that a hack outfielder(Cereal Guy) and a totally unproven pitcher(Hansen), is hardly an equitable trade for Andruw, a proven 35-50 HR hitter with 120+RBI per season. Come on Dude, get real. Lousy trade, period.

By French Fan

September 27, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

Mon Dieu! Le Braves are ahead of Le Meets by 7 to 1.

Does this mean Le Braves now move to the first place?

By Calvin

September 27, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

Miggy C? What has he done to catch ur wrath GHF?

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this

His ERA is 11.82 in three starts since returning from the DL, and 15.44 in his past four starts. He’s lasted three innings or fewer in three of those four.

No, not Kyle Davies. Pedro Martinez.

By Lew

September 27, 2006 09:07 PM | Link to this

French Fan-Non

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer, just noticed you’d linked to that Chicago article I referred to. My bad. Thanks for the link, though.

It does sound like there will be a sort of mini-bidding war for Pierre, and that’s nothing Braves need to get involved in. Not for Juan Pierre.

By Metropolitan Man

September 27, 2006 09:09 PM | Link to this

This is horrible. What happened to my METS? Is this how it looked everytime you guys got knocked out in the 1st round????? Can we trade Pedro for Smoltz just until the end of October????

By Matthew

September 27, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this

Grinch:

Hilarious!

If you could take Chipper’s experience (without the toes) and add it to the clone, we might have something!

More realistic is that we deal Langerhans or Diaz (Diaz has the better reputation right now) plug Thorman into left field, and add a pitcher or minor league SS propect in a deal for a proven starter and/or a leadoff hitter with a mid-level prospect. The more I read about the Angels the better it sounds. I still don’t want to trade Chipper, but Angels’ DH Tim Salmon is retiring at the end of the year. Is that worth discussing? I know Chipper has a no trade clause and again, I don;t necessarily want him to leave, but is it worth discussing?

Go Braves!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

MetropolitanMan, welcome to the hell we have had to experience for the last six years, my friend.

Lew, I see your point but I think the two draft picks don’t measure up to major league ready players. I don’t think you trade Andruw for the sake of trading him. However, if the Angels were willing to give up Escobar or Santana, Figgins, and Kendrick or a minor league prospect the Braves would be crazy not to take that trade. The problem with letting him just walk is that you are not likely to get three players of that caliber with $14 million dollars in today’s free agency. It just isn’t realistic.

By Metropolitan Man

September 27, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this

Why wont the braves just roll over and lets us get our confidence back up. This shalacking is not what us METS fans signed up for at this point in the season. I tell you guys this, if we get knocked out in the 1st round, I will never return to your precious blog again. I like talking baseball but this is just a horrible display of a professional team. Somebody Stop the bleeding.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

oh, the humanity! the blog is fixed and now the braves appear to be fixed, too!

By Calvin

September 27, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

Interesting…

Last 1 1/2 games against the Mets…Braves 25 Mets 1. Ouch.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

oh the humanity! i’m gay! oh the humanity!

By Tony Almeida

September 27, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this

Anybody else notice how these are the final games of the season and the Mets have already clinched. But yet the Mets continue to put their starting lineup out there every day. While our trusty Bobby Cox would let the regulars have two weeks off til the playoffs…..go figure.

By Carolina Lady

September 27, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this

“Trade talk doesn’t affect the way I play. I am here to play baseball — it’s my job. A long time ago, I said this is a business … if they want to keep me here, they can. This team will always be my first choice. Sometimes the team thinks they can upgrade without you. I want to stay with the Atlanta Braves for the rest of my career, if that’s possible.

Next year, I will be here. I don’t have to worry about that, because I’m under contract. They can’t trade me without my approval. If they came to me with a trade, and it was during the season, I would say, “No.” If they ask me, I will tell them, “No, I want to play out my contract.”

If it’s in the offseason and it’s a benefit to help the team, we would take it into consideration. I’m looking forward to a new season to prove people wrong about the Atlanta Braves.

I won’t negotiate my next contract without my agent (Scott Boras). I negotiated my previous contract (that runs through 2007) with the Braves (only with the help of his father, Henry) because I wanted to be here. I wanted to be an Atlanta Brave, and I wanted to build my family here.

My agent knows what I want, and he works for me. He doesn’t take the decision (to sign or not) away from me. He’s not going to throw a contract in my face and say, “Sign it.” I’m the one who has the decision and who will make the last call.” - Andruw Jones

By Miranda

September 27, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

might be weird…

but I actually enjoyed hearing Yunel whistle… it was unlike most whistles you hear from people… it is extrememly loud but it’s different

He has stopped… I remember hearing him most often at the beginning of the season and it declined from there. Once or twice a game to none… I always looked forward to it because he’d do at least once… always when you weren’t expecting it and normally in the early innings …then you wouldn’t hear it any more the rest of the game

just my opinion though… I enjoyed watching Yunel play

By Patrick

September 27, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, saw you on the broadcast tonight! You can’t catch fouls balls?? What’s the matter with you?!?!

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man, I hope for Y’alls sake the Mets are getting these kind of games out of the way for the playoffs; this doesn’t even look fair. Not that I’m not enjoying it, mind you…:-)

By Lew

September 27, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

RJIB-No, but it isn’t realistic you will get a team to part with that much AND pick up a $14 million salary. Look at what was offered at the trade deadline, a time when teams traditionally overpay for players to fill holes. In the cold light of the offseason, no onw will pay that price. Cheaper to pay for a free agent to fill your holes.

By ncscoots

September 27, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this

I can’t help it, sometimes i just gotta laaaauggghh…I think some bloggers are feeling the effects of a long season, with fatigue causing synapses to fire in irregular fashion, and forcing their fingers to type out, for public display, some of the more bizarre and not-of-this-dimension trade scenarios extant. The blog is BACK, thank goodness! And here I thought it might be a long offseason…shoot, not hardly. And on a final note, to our friendly smack-talkin’, daddy-callin’ recent Mets bloggers: oops.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this

Good to see you back, CL! Do what I did and put your support in for Andruw on that “Trade him or not” blog they got going now. The vast, vast majority of posts I’ve seen there so far have been in his favor, as they should be. Andruw should not be traded unless another team offers something absoulutely stupid, which they won’t. Everyone show him some love; I expect he’ll be reading that blog before he does this one.

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

Matthew, it’s not really a case of whether it’s worth discussing, but rather, what team would take Chipper and his guaranteed $11 mill each of the next two seasons, when he will have played fewer than 110 games for two consecutive seasons, and 137 games in the year before that?

I don’t think the Braves would ever trade away Chipper just to dump his salary and get nothing back in return. He’s just meant too much here just to dump his contract, and no team would give up talent in return plus take Chipper’s $22 mill he’s owed over next two seasons.

Carolina Lady, the only thing that should be noted is that Andruw said “if they come to me during the season” with a trade proposal. Well, the Braves wouldn’t do that, because if they don’t trade him this winter, they’re not going to trade him next summer if they’re anywhere near the division lead or in wild-card contention. Couldn’t justify tearing the heart out of their lineup in midseason.

Therefore, if they’re going to trade him, it’ll be this winter. And as I quoted Andruw in my story that’s posted online now, if the Braves approached him about a trade this winter, he’d take it as they don’t want him here. He wouldn’t veto a trade to, say, Anaheim or L.A. if they asked him to approve it this winter. Like Chipper, Andruw said he wouldn’t want to stay if they wanted to trade him for payroll purposes or whatever reason.

Now, he might veto a trade to an undesirable city. But think about that _ what undesirable team would trade for Andruw? None would do it unless they had the money to try to re-sign him, and the likes of Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, aren’t going to pay more than $15 mill a year for Andruw.

By David O'Brien

September 27, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this

It landed to the right of Curtright, who’s to my right. I didn’t feel like jumping over the top of him to catch it.

Hey, who’d have thunk Julio would have five times as many stolen bases (five) as home runs (one) this season? .265, 1 HR, 20 RBIs.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 10:08 PM | Link to this

The key thing Andruw said was that Boras will find out his value and go from there. He’ll see what the Braves say. Well, unless Liberty Media surprises us all or they pull out and allow Arthur Blank to buy the team I can guarantee the Braves aren’t going to pay him what his “value” is worth. That value is around $17 mil or higher and the Braves cannot afford that without sacrificing other key ingredients of the team. Andruw also said he could take higher or lower. Well, $14 to $15 mil is what the Braves will be able to offer. Will he take it? I honestly don’t know. I also know that if I were GM I wouldn’t be willing to take the chance. Andruw wants to stay a Brave. Then sign an extension this winter.

MetropolitanMan: Dude, I don’t know what to say. But, you didn’t think that your Mets were just going to take the division and the Braves were going to just lie down for them did you? As Chipper, LaRoche, McCann, and Francoeur all said this team is made of professionals and they will go play these last games as if they still had playoff implications. What you have seen the last two nights and will see for the next 4 games is a team taking out a season’s worth of frustration, failure, and disappointment on anyone who is in the way. Sorry, it had to be your Mets. ………..Well, actually I’m not sorry its the Mets. I am sorry for you. You seem like a nice guy.

By Metropolitan Man

September 27, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

I tell you Grinch, I got excited when I heard R. Johnson might not be ready to go for the stankees and Mo rivera is rusty from his time off. But after the past week and a half, the team looks sad. Pedro is not the team but they seem to have taken the stance that he is. If only the bats would wake up, then I could relax. Until then I will have to hype myself up again when the playoffs begin.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

miranda, tell us more about this whistling infielder … and if this is not the whistle of a normal person is miranda suggesting it is the whistle of an alien being? grinch can complete that thought for jimmy smith as journalist is trying hard to be a better person. now, baseball … if chipper can hit like this next year maybe they can buy him some more toes. how many to buy? could be just a rumor.

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

Son of gun! I get home, pop on the computer and low and behold! Meaningless to everyone else but the Braves I suppose, but I’m so glad they haven’t just quit.

GO BRAVES

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

DOB, so Curtright’s your right-hand man, huh? :-) MetMan, Pedro’s definitely lost a step and a half (maybe two) but he’s still a gamer. He’ll be doing his best when the games count the most. The thing you really have to watch with him is that he doesn’t try too hard and forget it isn’t 1997 anymore. Ultra competitive people often get that way to their detriment (I see Smoltz having a similar problem in a couple of seasons). That, and you’re about to feel the anguish of watching Glavine in the post season on your own mound. Pray for the bats; they may be enough if they get hot.

By Patrick

September 27, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this

DOD, if they Braves trade Andruw they would be crossing the line from perennial contender to a major league farm team for all the real contenders…once the Braves, draft and develop a young superstar, teams like Anaheim and New York will know they can steal them away because the Braves have no money.

They need to up the payroll, 80 is not enought to contend. I remember back only a couple years ago that St. Louis said they are sticking to an 80 mil payroll, but then they got Pujols and Rolen and Carpenter and they realized that you need to keep your core in place to compete and they and their payroll is now around 90-95 mil or so. You can say Oakland and Minnesota do compete with a low payroll, but they were so bad for so long they had all those high draft picks and the Braves haven’t had that luxury.

If the Braves trade Andruw, I feel they will be really bad for a really long time and they will lose a lot of fans.

By Alan

September 27, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this

Someone (Lew or Shaun, I think) made the point about the leadoff hitter that I was trying to make earlier. The Braves need a speedy catalyst at the top, which is where a guy like Roberts or Pierre would fit in far better than Giles. That is why I said either of them would be a “huge improvement” - as a leadoff hitter, who disrupts things (aka “wreaks havoc,” as someone else said). If Pierre were the Braves’ leadoff hitter this year, he’d have scored 120 runs at least. The Cubs’ lineup is nowhere near as potent as the Braves. Pierre has 57 stolen bases, which I’m sure is way more than the entire Braves’ team. That’s the missing ingredient this year, and the main fallout from the defection of Rafael Furcal. Adding speed to the top of the order should be a prime objective. I’m not knocking Giles - he’s a great player and I’d like him to stay. But, he’s not a leadoff hitter. And as DOB has said, he’ll probably be traded because of his salary and because he’s marketable and because a combination of Aybar/Prado/Orr can adequately replace him.

By Lew

September 27, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

RJIB-Did you read the AJC story about the team’s sale? Apparently it is no sure thing that Liberty Media would get it done. The problem is apparently dealing with both the structure acceptable to MLB AND the IRS/SEC. The deal is so contingent upon the tax breaks while MLB wants someone with almost absolute control (not a corporate entity) that the IRS would not accept this person’s (such as Terry McGuirk-sp?) control over the financial aspects. It is a good possibility that an individual will end up having to buy the team, or Liberty Media would have to run it like a separate business (meaning they may have to spend more $$$). Who knows, maybe it will end up in our favor. Read the article, it explains it better than I can.

By Metropolitan Man

September 27, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

You brave bloggers are aight. Us METs fans unloaded 12 years of braves winning in our division on your blogs all season. It was fun when it was all baseball but got ugly at times. So here is to a good race next year that goes down to the wire. I’m going into the playoffs with a hope and a prayer. Boy, sports can send you to an early grave.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

Maybe Miranda should read him his rights…(rim shot). Thank you, thank you…I’ll be here all week!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this

Lew, I have to respectively disagree with you. I think the Angels would be very willing to give up that to get Andruw because they desperately need another power hitter in their lineup. Not to mention its not that big of deal for them because they can easily replace all three of those players with guys already on the 40 man roster or their vast minor league system. They were willing to give up that to get Soriano who I can guarantee will get more than $14 mil in the offseason. The Angels made it clear they had every intention of signing him if the trade went through. The only reason the trade didn’t go through because the Nats wanted even more than that of what the Angles was offering. Bowden wanted a king’s ransom and his castle. I think you’d be surprised at what teams will be willing to offer. Especially those who don’t make the playoffs this year that were preseason locks (Angels, White Sox, and Red Sox).

By Carolina Lady

September 27, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

Sorry, DOB. I didn’t know your article was posted. I found Andruw’s comments interesting. I truly do hope he stays a Brave.

PS. any hope of getting the hateful 5 min delay removed??? Someone else said it better: it’s like having a long commercial between each pitch!

By Lew

September 27, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this

RJIB-Why give up anyone when you can just go out and sign a free agent like Carlos Lee? I bet Andruw stays in Atlanta for years to come. Besides,they’re not going to give us Santana. Alan-It sure wasn’t me. I’d just as soon leave Marcus leading off next year. Our problems is not scoring runs-It was relief pitching and starters needing to go more than 5 innings. A combination of Orr, Prado and Aybar will not replace Marcus either offensively or defensively.

By The Grinch

September 27, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this

MetroMan, you ought to be a Falcons fan. They’re the most exciting team in their division evey year and they ALWAYS find a way to break your heart. Try no back-to-back winning seasons since their inception in 1966. Yet, they’re always good enough to give you hope! Blah. Good luck in the playoffs; have no doubt you’ll get a much better run for your money out of us next season. Cheers!

By Lew

September 27, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-Sorry for my outburst the other day. I do apologize. I’m only a jerk upon occaision even with provocation. Dude-Try being a Tampa Bay Bucs fan from 1985-1996. You want to talk frustration? If you ever see a Barry Sanders highlight film, count the orange and white jerseys he leaps over on the way to the end zone.

By fastfoodfreak

September 27, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

Haven’t seen scores like the past 2 nights since Church league softball!

By Jman

September 27, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this

I really believe Andruw should be traded. What other way are the Braves going to REBUILD their rotation? You guys like Ervin Santana, and Figgins, and hopefully big time prospect Joe Saunders out of the deal and you are cookin’ my friend. Two guys who could be #1 & #2 starters in the years to come. And then think of what you might get out of Yunel Escobar (expendable b/c Renteria is in Atlanta till 2008, and Elvis Andrus, who is only 19, will be ready by then.) And given the prospect that Brian McCann may end up being one of the best backstops the game has ever seen (Mild overstatement, I know) Which could make Salty tradable. The Braves offense has been great. Of course when you trade Andruw Jones there is definite drop off, but if you can get Figgins as part of a deal for him, and either trade for Crawford to play LF, or More Figgins to LF, Francoeur to CF and either trade for a power hitting, cheap RF, or sign one to replace Andruw’s production. Replacing Andruw’s glove will not be that hard. Francoeur can go get ‘em and with the dropoff that Andruw is about to experience it wont be a big deal anyway.

By fastfoodfreak

September 27, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this

Keep Andruw! Keep Andruw! Keep Andruw!

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

Well, as for the Andruw trade ideas… they maybe good or bad, but I don’t like any of them. The more I try to picture the Braves without Andruw in Center the sadder I get. I certainly hope they can keep him around. Man I hope they can do it. But it isn’t up to me. The good thing is, JS is in charge so we are 99% assured of getting something amazing in return. But I’d rather not have to find out.

Saw a post about Cox and Botchy being similar in that they’d have to really, really blow it to lose their jobs. I’d agree to a certain point on that. Botchy has a good set up, but the front office is changing around him which puts him a little further out on the limb. I couldn’t imagine them letting him go, but get enough new guys in there and it’s harder to say. Cox has the advantage of working with JS forever. As long as JS is GM, Cox is manager.

On a different note, tonight is one of the most intense nights in baseball. So many extra inning games with teams that are fighting to stay in it. All these games were tied up until late in the game. It’s really exciting to watch.

GO BRAVES

By Carolina Lady

September 27, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this

Replacing Andruw’s glove will not be that hard.
Blink
Huh??

By brian

September 27, 2006 11:05 PM | Link to this

DOB - is Escobar ready to be a utility player - SS and 3B. I have a hard time keeping track of roster positions but Prado, Aybar, and Escobar could be big bench players next year and possibly spell the end of Pete Orr.

If the Braves trade Andruw, I also think that the Angels match up best with the Braves with Figgins and their too numerous to count prospects. I am looking for an old school trading progression from JS where there are multiple trades with each one complementing the other. I do not see us trading away Chuck James as I think JS will try and remake our starting rotation with young promising pitchers such as James and Ervin Santana. If we were to get Santana that would make Davies expendable for the right offer such as being included in a deal for Dontrelle. If we get Dontrelle then JS would be inclined to move Hudson to unload his contract - probably for young prospects to restock the system, especially for a young arm or two (Boston, New York, or Texas the likely buyers). I love Crawford and think he would be huge, especially if Figgins was leading off, but would not pay a king’s ransom for him. Davies and Salty yes, but not adding James.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 27, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

journalist found a bunion reliever toe spreader on ebay. not sure if journalist will be successful bidder but if jimmy smith wins, the toe spreader will be delivered to the ranch with a polite note asking chipper not to wear pointy-toe cowboy boots in the off-season. the braves need that bat in the lineup. now, a run on canned hams … there is an article saying that canned hams are very much in favor now. good ham when on the plate, good doorstop when in the can. now, whistling escobar - would his momma have been whistler’s mother? how can they ask this man to no longer whistle? are they not familiar with fine art?

By Shaun Payne

September 27, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I see your point. What I’m trying to say is that Pierre is much more dangerous on the bases than Giles. Giles may have an higher OBP but Pierre is the type of guy that can get on base and go from 1st to 3rd without one hit or out having to be made. Same with a Dave Roberts or Carl Crawford. You can’t tell me that Giles can do the same. I cringe everytime I even think that he is thinking about trying to steal a base. Giles is a hustler and if it were practical and sensible I would love for him to stay but he is not a leadoff hitter nor will he ever be. And, yes, a leadoff hitter is vital to a good offense. Just ask the Yanks, Dodgers, and Mets.

A good leadoff hitter is great, but speed is overrated. On-base percentage is the most important single stat for a leadoff hitter…and any other hitter if you consider run production important. (Note I said the most important, not the only stat that matters.) A high slugging percentage can help make up for on-base deficiencies.

The Braves have actually scored more runs than the Dodgers and Mets without a speedy leadoff hitter.

And, yes, Derek Jeter has obviously helped the Yankees score the most runs in baseball. But also every other hitter in the Yankees lineup. They make fewer outs per plate appearance/get on base more per plate appearance (the two are mutually exclusive). They also have the third highest slugging percentage. They don’t have a hitter with an on-base percentage under .360.

A little non-scientific test:

Look at the top stolen base teams or triples teams. Of the top 10 teams in those categories, the run scoring is all over the place. Some of those teams score a lot of runs, some don’t.

Now look at the top on-base percentage teams. Almost all of the top 10 will also be in the top 10 or so in runs scored. If not, it’s probably because they have a low slugging percentage.

Now look at the top run scoring teams. Almost all of the teams in the top 10 will also be in the top 10 in OBP and/or slugging, but some of them will have a lot of steals, some will have very little.

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this

Lew: Carlos Lee. That’s the guy. Haven’t seen his name posted on the blog in quite some time. He’s an interesting option, that’s for sure. But, I’d rather keep Andruw. If needs be, take the money you save from freed up contracts, go to Vegas. Put it on black and cross your fingers. If it hits, you got enough cash to last a while.

By Jman

September 27, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

Andruw’s decline will start about the second year of a new contract. We have ridden this horse as far as we can! SELL, SELL, SELL!!!!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this

Shaun, are you seriously saying speed is overrated? How can you say a quality that keeps you out of double plays, takes an extra base on balls that would normally be singles or doubles, or can go from 1st to home a line drive the down the line is overrated. Speed is nowhere near overrated. You’re kidding me, right? Who’s more dangerous on a consistent basis? A speed basestealer or a homerun hitter? Of all the dangerous qualities Soriano has the one that scares teams the most is his speed. Taking Sorian for instance. What is he more likely to do? Turn a long single into a double or hit a home run?

I have to disagree with you, man. I’ll take speed any day of the week. I don’t care what the team sport is. Speed matters. Baseball is no different. Look at Andruw. He is not the fastest guy around but he is pretty fast. Yes, his anticpation has a lot to do with his defense, but how many balls has that guy ran down that most wouldn’t even think about?

I realize that some teams with high stolen bases and triples don’t score that many runs. But, that has a lot more to do with the guys hitting behind them than it does everything. I bet if you took those guys out of those lineups those run totals would be even worse.

Give me speed any day of the week. It saves runs on defense and creates runs on offense. Its that simple. The Braves may have scored more runs than the Mets this year but has their offense been more consistent? No, it hasn’t.

By flbravesgirl

September 27, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

Now this is more like it! Back to back great games and the blog is no longer a cesspool.

I am totally against trading Andruw. In spite of the streaky nature of his hitting, he’s very productive. And no one could replace him in CF. His age keeps getting mentioned as a factor… People, he is not even 30 yet! Since JS is breaking with his usual mode of operations, he needs to get to work on negotiations with Andruw right away.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 27, 2006 11:48 PM | Link to this

I will say again. I’m not advocating Andruw if he signs an extension. If he doesn’t the Braves have to explore trades. Mark my words, the Nats will regret they didn’t trade Soriano. I would hate to see Atlanta put themselves in the same boat.

By Miranda

September 27, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

haha… to me… it just sounds different than most whistles

I never paid it too much attention… I heard it but didn’t think too much of it because it never bothered me. When I read he’d been told not to do it anymore… that’s when I started paying more attention to it.

it can get annoying I guess after a while but in my opinion… what’s the difference in that and someone in the stands? if you can ignore one you should be able to ignore the other

By TennesseePaul

September 27, 2006 11:59 PM | Link to this

This Phillies game is just ridiculous!

By TennesseePaul

September 28, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this

Speed is one tool that never slumps.

By TennesseePaul

September 28, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this

The Phillies pulled it off. Just barely. Unbelievable.

By Shaun Payne

September 28, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best),

I didn’t say speed doesn’t matter. Speed is great and it obviously helps. But things like on-base percentage/low out percentage and slugging percentage are much more important. I would rather have a team full of Albert Pujols’s than a team full of Carl Crawford’s. And I will score more runs.

All you have to do is look at the numbers. Look at the top run scoring teams in baseball and I guarantee you many of them will not be super fast.

On-base percentage correlates with run scoring better than any other percentage or rate stat. Advanced mathematical studies show that and common sense will tell you that. You make fewer outs between plate appearances, you score more runs. You make outs quickly in fewer plate appearances, you don’t score many runs. The best way to think about offense is from a defensive perspective. You want Smoltz to get outs as quick as possible. Why? To prevent runs. Doesn’t it follow that if you avoid outs for as long as possible, you’ll score runs?

Speed is great, but it’s not as important as the ability to get on base consistently.

By dadgum

September 28, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

$80 mil is enough to win a world series for sure. Would $100 mil be better, yeah for sure. However, at what price tag is too much that it makes you look like you are buying a championship. The Braves can do well on $80 mil with the right mix and this off season is all about getting the mix right.

The Braves have too many players that don’t fit right now. Good players all but a glut of infielders and suspect pitchers plus a few vets that won’t be resigned. You won’t know this team come spring after all the trades are done. Won’t take up a lot of blog space with the scenarios.. all seem to have been hashed and rehashed anyway.

Glad the blog is flowing again with reasoned banter. Not that it is demon-proof from now on but at least it is readable. Ramble On……..

By TheSouthernJackAss

September 28, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this

I would like to take a moment and apologize to everyone on the blog, particularly to David O’Brien, Bob, journalist, journalist jimmy smith, and especially apologize to Carolina Lady. I allowed my filthy language, and my anger to get way out of hand, and I did not realize the damage that I was doing, and there is no excuse for any of that. So again, to everyone on the blog, I am genuinely sorry for my behavior, and I hope you will find it in your hearts to forgive me. I don’t blame you at all for despising me.

By Lew

September 28, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this

I still think the Braves have enough cash to deal with what needs dealing with. If you figure a savingsof $14.5 million dumping all of the dead wood like Thomson, etc. and the savings from Smoltz salary dropping in 07. Wicky just got $6.5 leaving $8mil. Roachy, Giles, etc. will eat up about$4mil of that in arbitration raises. That leaves $4 million to do something. Trading salty, Thorman and Brayan Pena could augment that $4mil pretty effectively to finish the pitching staff. Platoon Diaz and Langerhans in left. Did anyone see that play Langy made in center tonight? Andruw couldn’t have made it any better. I’m still not convinced the leadoff situation is that big a deal. See, everything can be addressed without trading Andruw or Giles. If they both leave in 08, so be it. We have enough kids in our own pipeline to deal with everything after that. Losing free agents never killed us in the past and won’t now.

By The Grinch

September 28, 2006 12:20 AM | Link to this

Mmmmm….hash….

Hey, FLB-girl. Glad to see you didn’t depart after all.

10Paul, you’re right about speed being the one tool that never slumps; just ask LaRoche! (Rim shot) Hey…tap-tap..is this thing on?

By The Grinch

September 28, 2006 12:30 AM | Link to this

Lew, if (please lord) Pratt departs this off-season and we trade Salty and Pena, who’s gonna back-up McCann?

By Bob, journalist

September 28, 2006 12:42 AM | Link to this

It’s true that Andruw’s stubborn as a mule, a bit overweight and sometimes makes Ryan Klesko’s swings look smooth and efortless … but, inspite of all that, and the wear and tear too; the kid’s as good as it gets in center!

What’s he worth … a net of 2 runs a game, perhaps more? Before we tinker with what’s ailing but not broken, let’s remember that he’s the real warm fuzzy of the pitching staff and that added comfort level is probably worth another run or two.

If he hadn’t stepped up last year, we’d be talking about a fantastic 13 year streak!

I know about the 10-5 rule … well how about the 58-58 rule? I’ve been a Major League fan, supporting the same team for 58 years and I don’t want him to be traded … but I would prefer that he lose some weight and his agent.

Let’s get Chipper a new pair of shoes; hit Andruw over the head with a 4x6, put him on a diet and explain to him that hitting the Coke bottle counts the same as just clearing the fence … and advancing the runner is better than a strikeout.

Let’s forget about trading the Joneses and let others worry about keeping up with them … maybe then we can concentrate on getting David his column and a special rooting section for all of us at the 2007 World Series!

13-1 ain’t a shutout but then Hudson’s not Smoltz … still it’s pretty good and it ain’t meaningless! 10 Paul, do we still have time to better the 10 runs a game streak?!

By Bob, journalist

September 28, 2006 12:52 AM | Link to this

My Lady and Nice young Lady from south of Georgia … the neighborhood always lights up when its two favorite Ladies are present; even in the dead of night!

12-0, 13-1 and now the 2 of you … quite a treat!

By The Grinch

September 28, 2006 01:01 AM | Link to this

Bob, I’m afraid we may have entered a little late to the game. I know for me it certainly wouldn’t be the first time. Did you hear Edward Albert (son of Eddie Albert) died today? At 55 of lung cancer. I hate it when that happens.

By Lew

September 28, 2006 01:06 AM | Link to this

Grinch-You don’t have to trade both, but both should be available to be traded. Where’s Eddie Perez when we need him? Good night all.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 28, 2006 01:26 AM | Link to this

To the 12:19 a.m. poster: Who are you, and what have you done with the real TheSouthernJackAss?

By The Grinch

September 28, 2006 01:27 AM | Link to this

Roight. Snooze time.

By Bob, journalist

September 28, 2006 01:32 AM | Link to this

Grinch, it appears that you’re on point as per usual! That’s a good way to describe my life in general as well as my posts.

Yes, he was a talent never fully realized … liked his father a lot and thought his Grandfather was truly gifted, though probably not fully appreciated … for some reason, the elder elder always reminded me of Martin Gable.

You know, genuine apologies are rare and difficult to make … they say a lot about folks. If the one ascribed to the Honorable Southern is the genuine article, it’s certainly accepted, at least from this quarter.

Maybe Frenchy was less tired than folks thought!

By Head Coach

September 28, 2006 01:35 AM | Link to this

Lord what I would have given to be one of the few thousand fans in the stands watching the last two games. Thursdays game is on TBS , Guys can you do it one more time so the rest of us can see the hated Mets get swept and humiliated on national television ? July 14-10 - August 15-13 - September 14-12 so far……. and all of it with a patchwork rotation. Gee , you think they are going to win in 2007 ? Hmmmmm , let me look into my crystal ball far a minute. A healthy rotation , a closer , add a fast defensively solid left fielder in Dave Roberts , shore up the pitching with a trade and add a veteran utility player and mix it all together. Shazam ! you have another division winner. Well, that was easy , now if I could only predict this years superbowl winner…..lol

By flbravesgirl

September 28, 2006 01:36 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Bob! Sweet of you to say that.

Grinch, I’ve been reading the blog but wanted to avoid the nastiness that was going on. Also, ever since this delay started, my computer freezes up for a while after I post. I hope the techies do something about it soon.

Since this darn machine will be in suspended animation after this…. I’ll say goodnight, y’all.

By Head Coach

September 28, 2006 02:28 AM | Link to this

ESPN has got to be eating their shorts right now. The Braves game against Houston will be on ESPN friday night and you know if the Astros are still in the playoff hunt come sunday , ESPN will have to televise that game too and the Braves get to play the spoiler in front of the whole country. Clemens vs. James on friday and Pettitte vs. Smoltz on sunday and you thought the last week would be meaningless. Think again.

By Tomahawkin

September 28, 2006 03:34 AM | Link to this

Hey D.O.B.I’m Kinda F-CK-ed up right now, but If I don’t mention it to ya, Thanks 4 a great season off bloggin, I’m not gonna kiss Ur A-s-s , but U are the first guy to give us the 411 on what the braves are doin off da camera…and I commend U 4 dat… as well as giving Ur nutty nonsense about Ur experiences about Muzik, Other cithies and their atmosphere,I love It , makes me want to B a Journalist 4 da AJC…

I’d bet U wouldn’t trade Ur Job 4 anything NE Thing In da world

U are one of A Kind D.O.B.

Peace Man, and BTW I have been Bumpin Old 2pac All nite, I love that dat shyt… especially dat CD * ALL Eyez About Me*…Classic

By Tomahawkin

September 28, 2006 03:44 AM | Link to this

Aight Grinch and Headcoach I’m Too F-c-k-ed To blog, So I’m Bout to roll Out Catch U guys Later…Go Braves in 07**…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 28, 2006 07:52 AM | Link to this

Shaun, speed and OBP can go hand in hand. Like you I would rather have a whole team of Puljos instead of a whole team of Crawfords, but I would rather have a whole team of Crawfords than a whole team of Andruw’s and Ortiz. Tell me who’s more likely to beat out a grounder into the hole at SS? Puljos or Crawford. No matter what the sport is except for golf, if you have speed then you have an advantage pure and simple.

By dadgum

September 28, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this

Not sure where this blog is going after the season is over but I have enjoyed it greatly. Hopefully with the impending active off season it will continue on some level.

DOB has done a good inspirational job with this blog of his (never been to The Man In Black) while at the same time dodging mayhem from aliens. Thanks SJA for your apologies to the blog bretheren (if indeed that was really you). Not really saying it wasn’t but with multiple posts from same IP’s it is hard to tell. Everyone has been a little off kilter at times with views or language. But hey it happens. I have ripped Cox and a few players for dogging it and not sure if my “student of the game” banter from that woeful Nationals series in DC was really appropriate. Either way DOB has the facts to back me up when I am right or stuff me when I am wrong and he isn’t afraid to conjecture and field the flack as long as the decorum remains sane. Of late it had become quite moronic.

FYI…..it was reported in today’s Richmond Times Dispatch that Frank Robinson is out in Washington. Formal announcement by the weekend. Braves’ Gonzalez is a possible successor but the paper opines he may go to Florida and Pena Sr. may be the next DC manager. We’ll see.

By Shaun

September 28, 2006 08:45 AM | Link to this

Shaun, speed and OBP can go hand in hand. Like you I would rather have a whole team of Puljos instead of a whole team of Crawfords, but I would rather have a whole team of Crawfords than a whole team of Andruw’s and Ortiz. Tell me who’s more likely to beat out a grounder into the hole at SS? Puljos or Crawford. No matter what the sport is except for golf, if you have speed then you have an advantage pure and simple.

Speed can be an advantage but it’s not necessarily an advantage. There are plenty of guys throughout baseball history who could “run like the wind blows,” but couldn’t do much else.

All things being equal, I’d rather have a speedy guy. But I’ll take a high on-base guy over much faster guy who can’t get on-base as often.

By Lew

September 28, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

Dadgum-We blogged all last offseason, so I imagine, unless they do away with it completely, we’ll do it again.

By Jman

September 28, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

Does anyone remember Ken Griffey Jr. in his prime? He made the highlight reel every night! He made those same bone jarring, teeth rattling catches that Andruw makes. He’d climb the wall to steal a homer. He’d stretch all the way out and dive to steal extra bases. Then all of a sudden the guy cant stay off the DL. This is about to happen to Andruw. The guy is rapidly aging, because of his past beating and banging on his body. Granted he’s been one of the best to ever do it, but so was Ken Griffey Jr. in his prime. Like I said last night - SELL, SELL, SELL while you can still get a king’s ransom for him.

By Shaun

September 28, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Trading Andruw Jones

Exhibit A: A.J. Pierzynski for Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano and Boof Bonser. I know this is an extreme example but it represents the possibilities of what could happen if Scherholz has the guts and brains to trade AJones for the right players.

Exhibit B: Alex Rodriguez. The Mariners won more after he was gone because they didn’t have to use up most of their payroll for 10-13 wins a year. Same with Texas. They could spread the wealth, getting a higher quantity of quality players.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 28, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith is reminded of the famous gerald tinker - fastest man to put on an atlanta sports jersey. could outrun anything bob lee could throw - had board hands. failure. now, fast braves … tony pena, jr appears to be the kind of player who could bat leadoff and steal bases. can his hitting be improved?

By teoa

September 28, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

DOB, check out the new Sparklehorse CD if you get a chance. I think it’s safe to say there’s nothing in the history of recorded sound that sounds like a Sparklehorse album. The guy is a great songwriter, but the textures he creates in the studio are nothing short of genius.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 28, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith finds himself dreaming about DOB’s toes. will journalist get a chance to touch DOB’s toes? massage dob’s toes? journalist jimmy smith is confused with his attraction to toes and men in general. Oh the humanity!

By CK

September 28, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

Resign Jones now. Ride out the Hampton contract and then that will free up some cash. Hones is the anchor of this team. He is still young enough to build a franchise around and experienced to help younger players to improve.

Pitching is certainly a top priority as well but giving up the cornerstone of the team is too large of a gamble.

The only way I would give up Jones is if the players in return are a Liriano and Ryan Howard type of player. Young and full of talent and potential.

The Braves are not a bad team. They are only a couple of pitchers away and with Hampton coming back next season along with the emergence of James and Davies our staff is not that far off. Smoltz and Hudson still have tremendous talent and can anchor the staff. Another plus is Ramirez.

The reason the Braves fell off pace this year is they hesitated in signing a clotch closer. They would have been in the thick of the race if they hadn’t given up so many late inning leads. Give this team good health and lets see what happens.

If you trade Jones then you may as well pull a Florida Marlins and start all over again. Let the payroll be the deciding factor in who plays and who leaves. I think the braves JS is too smart too roll the dice in his last years as Gm and wants to go out withn another Championship. That is impossible without the Jones boys tandem as offensive anchors.

By Kim

September 28, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

Dave,

Has anyone ever brought up the theory that John Schuerholtz’s book may have contributed to the Braves’ lack of success in making the trades they needed this year? He did tell some dirty secrets on other GMs and they may be reluctant to deal with him in the future? Just a thought??

By David O'Brien

September 28, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

We’re gonna look at these Braves’ offensive stats years from now and wonder how they finished .500 or worse. Then we’ll look down at the pitching stats and go, ‘Oh, that’s how.’….

Carolina Lady, my response to the guy who said Andruw’s glove would be easy to replace was the same as your response: “What!?” That was a head-scratcher. Until Andruw starts falling off significantly, he’s still the best defensive CF, just a notch above the likes of Vernon Wells, Torri Hunter, Beltran, Edmonds, etc.

teoa, I’ve got three previous Sparklehorse CDs. You’re right _ very, very unique. Certainly got to be in the right mood to listen to it, but it’s good stuff, and some of the songs are just brilliant.

Speaking of, along the lines of another sort of peculiar band _ but not nearly as peculiar as Sparklehorse _ the new CD by Yo La Tengo is their best in a decade, in my opinion. Good rockin’ little outfit from Hoboken, NJ, been around forever but never really sold a ton of albums, sort of like the Mekons _ great band, never sold a ton of albums.

Anyway, the CD is called _ and I’m not making this up _ “I Hate You and I’m Not Afraid To Kick Your A*%.” I have no idea where they got the inspiration for the title, but it’s hilarious considering they are these sort of skinny, aging-hipster group, with a husband-wife at the center of the band.

T-Hawkin’, thanks for the kind words last night. And Tupac _ now you’re talking. I avoided responding to your repeated recommendations for R. Kelly, because that stuff is just too slick and smooth sounding for me. I’m a bit old for R. Kelly, I think. Or just not into that new-generation R&B. I like the new guy Van Hunt and Anthony Hamilton, but that’s because they sound like old guys ranging from like Marvin Gaye, Al Green, Soloman Burke, Sly, Prince, etc.

By The Grinch

September 28, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

Journalist Jimmy Smith (the real one), The Grinch has been pondering. Not to be confused with pandering. No. Pondering. Good toe health is essential for good hitting, correct? Brian McCann is our best hitter. Brian’s dad is his hitting coach. Is he in some way related to Thom McCann? The Grinch believes that an enterprising investigative journalist should run with this and see where it leads. Not having the title of journalist himself…well, let’s just say a certain degree of altruism is involved, and Grinch would like to see JJS or DOB get his own column. With the proper shoe-horn, this may very well be a “scoop.” Do not say The Grinch was never generous.

By Patrick

September 28, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

CK-

Have you been watching the Braves this season?? I don’t think you have because in your post you made it sound like the Braves have a young stud they can count on next season in Davies and that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Hampton coming back is good, but JS still needs to solidify the rotation

By Ricardo

September 28, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

We keep talking about all the pitching we are getting back, but all come with question marks - health, makeup, etc. The one thing that bothers the most is that none of our guys are power pitchers (Smoltz not included). We need a starter or 2 that can strike people out. It’s easier said that done, but I hope we find that this offseason.

By The Grinch

September 28, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Yeah, Dave, I think you ARE a bit too old for R. Kelly! Now if you had a 14-year old daughter…:-)

By El Bravo

September 28, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

Unless JS makes a huge move this offseason, the rotation will be just as inconsistent next year. Hampton will help some, but asking him to start 35 games is like asking chipper to play in 162. It’s not gonna happen. Giles is the most obvious person to trade for a starter, but you’re not going to get the type of guy everyone’s looking for. You’d have to trade AJ to get that great young starter. Should JS trade Andruw? That’s a tough question.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 28, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

well, grinch … this journalist is flattered about talk of jimmy smith’s own column but first we must help dob realize his dream of columnization. a word, right? there will be plenty of time for journalist jimmy smith to have columnist’s own column. now, grinch may be onto something with thom mccann … however, jimmy smith is a proponent of red goose shoes for good toe health. it is well known that half the fun of having feet is red goose shoes. with a nice pair of red goose shoes chipper will ne a different player. remember, for happy toes and healthy feet - red goose shoes. now, a soccer report … “midfielder dale tonge has been ruled out of action until october with a toe injury meaning he misses the sheffield wednesday clash.” a tongue with a toe? oh, the confusion!

By forcesaberz

September 28, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Have you guys realized what kind of a year McCann has had? I was looking at his numbers vs. DWright last night and he has a better BA and more HR then Wright. DW has been batting 5th all year and has played a lot more games the McCann as well, so that explains the RBI’s. McCann calls great games as well. I was just thinking how overlooked this guy is … DWright gets all this attention, but we have our own (at least just as good) young superstart as well. Props to BMcCann!!!

By ncscoots

September 28, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

“speed never slumps”…my rejoinder to that is always “you can’t steal first base”; fast don’t mean jack if you’re sitting in the dugout. Small ball? Here’s my version of that: “Gosh, the ball looks really small from 400 feet away.” I’ll take OBP and thunder any day over “manufacturing runs” as an overall offensive strategy. Most teams in MLB today simply don’t have the pitching to win 3-2 on a regular basis, so you HAVE to be able to score heavily and regularly. That has nothing to do with preference of one type of offense over another, it’s just a fact of today’s offensive environment. So if you want to trade Andruw AND Giles, you had better be looking for more than a leadoff hitter and young pitching, there better be some stud run-producer coming back to the fold from somewhere. I don’t believe you could sacrifice that much offense (without replacement) and win with any pitching staff the Braves could conceivably field in 2007.

By rammerjammer

September 28, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Shaun, Robert and others,

Great, great arguments on both sides of the aisle regarding speed and the leadoff spot. Very compelling.

But if we keep the status quo, we enter 2007 with a leadoff guy (Giles) who doesn’t like leading off, and no one else is groomed to take that spot.

It’s hard to remember now, what with another bash-o-rama streak going on, but the Braves struggled mightily to score early in the season, and Giles’ woes had a ripple effect.

Nothing has changed to make that go away. Without plugging in a speedy (and willing) leadoff hitter, we’ll be doomed to one-trick pony status…home runs or nothing.

It’s not our most pressing need - that’s starting pitching - but it is a need that should be addressed. And I think JS is of a mindset to do just that.

By TennesseePaul

September 28, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

Payne: While you’re pointing out extreme examples, why don’t you balance it with the other side of that situation. The side where we trade Andruw and replace him with say, Coco Crisp. Crisp plays in 100 games all season. The offense crumbles around the lack of a 4th hitter. The defense is in disarray because there isn’t a steady CF on the team. The pitchers allow more doubles and triples than ever before and we don’t make it to the post season, again. The corporate ownership rolls around in the reduced payroll and sets the bar permanently lower than 80 million crippling our chances of beginning and continuing another successful streak. The Braves attendance eventually drops to Expos/Marlins level and the team is moved to Portland. A new owner buys the team, and sets up a 200 million dollar payroll and produces 10 consecutive WS titles. And Hall of Famers at every position during that stretch making it the greatest team ever to take the field.

You can’t just assume we will get that super fabulous deal. On top of that, Devine could be the next Joe Nathan. And we have Devine without trading a soul. McBride could be the next Joe Nathan. We have a bullpen full of young arms who could all develop into the most spectacular pitchers to fill a pen. (as long as we are discussing extreme possibilities…)

All of these scenerios are just as likely as pillaging another teams farm system and striking gold. Actually, with the exception of the team moving scenario, the others are more likely than us getting 10 players in return for 2, 1 year rentals. It seems most people are forgetting that, if AJ is refusing to sign because he wants to test the FA market, then he’ll test the FA market no matter what. And both AJ and Giles are FA at the end of next year. This makes both of them potential one year rentals for any team dealing with them. This idea will dimish the trade value some.
Also Andruw is 10/5. Now, 10/5 may not seem like much. I’ve seen it posted. AJ will certainly agree to go to LA or NY or where ever. But he wouldn’t agree to go to Houston or the Marlins or where ever. This puts the Braves in a similar place to the Indians and Wickman. The other teams involved are dealing from a strong position as well.

But whatever. I say keep him. It’ll make next season that much more possible to be a winning season and it will show AJ that we still want him around even if a deal couldn’t be reached. That might increase his desire to keep Boras out of the picture.

By The Grinch

September 28, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Egads, JJS! That gives a whole new meaning to being “tongue-tied.” This person is reminicent of someone we know with a loose string…Red Goose shoes, eh? Hmmm. If they do indeed live up to their claim they could give the Braves a decided advantage. Goose cleats? Sounds like something you would tie a goose to a tugboat with. I’m still not giving up on my earlier pondering, regardless. It’s entirely too vivid.

Scoots and 10Paul, you are both wise in the ways of baseball. I have had my sandwich, and am off to the gym. Via con Dios.

By rammerjammer

September 28, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Regarding Andruw:

I’m sure somewhere there’s a formula in JS’s head regarding how much payroll he can commit to Andruw before it hamstrings his ability to field a competitive team.

Whatever that number is, that’s the number Andruw will be offered. It won’t be the richest offer he gets, but it isn’t ALWAYS about money for Braves players.

But is IS all about money for the players’ union.

Like Glavine was, Andruw will be encouraged by the union to test the market and drive up his value…”a rising tide lifts all boats” is how the union sees it.

Glavine made his choice and one gets the feeling he’s always regretted it. Now it’s Andruw’s turn.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 28, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith has made a big decision today. esteemed journalist is coming out of the closet to all my closest friends here on the braves blog. journalist believes homo boys will be back soon and this journalist will be extra friendly to them. homo boys are not to be trifled with. journalist jimmy smith hopes the blog is accepting of jimmys choice and will support him. journalist jimmy loves rainbows too. Oh the humanity!

By TennesseePaul

September 28, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: I don’t believe you could sacrifice that much offense (without replacement) and win with any pitching staff the Braves could conceivably field in 2007.

Speed is a valuable tool. But I agree, if it’s your only tool, it’s pointless. And I agree that trading Giles and Andruw is going to cripple this teams offense.
However, I present the 1995 Braves. Tied for second to last in offense but were the most dominate pitching staff in the pros. Indians were second best pitching and had a huge offense. Braves beat them in 6. Now, I’m not saying or implying or arguing for less offense and more pitching. But I don’t think lossing some offense and drastically improving pitching is going to hurt all that much. The season will be a nail-biter the whole 6 months and I don’t have the heart strength to handle it. If the team were some how able to land Johann Santana and pitchers of that ilks all in one rotation, we could take a drop in run production. But we aren’t going to get that caliber of pitching… at least not that caliper of pitching which is major league ready and in it’s prime or ready to hit its prime.
So, again I say, don’t trade Andruw. It’s too big of a hole in the line up. Too big of a hole in the defense. IF he is to be replaced it will have to be with both those parts in mind in that deal, or in subsequent deals. Lose Andruw, we’d have to pick up Carlos Lee, or better yet, Soriano for LF and then find a super defensive player to play CF. And, by the time you’ve done that, you’ve spent as much money replacing Andruw as you would have spent keeping Andruw.
Giles on the other hand is a different matter. The pop we lose in his bat could be replaced in LF if we find an incredible defender to replace him at second.

By gpburdell

September 28, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Nice post DOB. This blog has denigrated recently, but I hope it will regain its former form and for the people who were driven away to come back. I blame the Braves falling out of contention for the wild card. Idle hands and all that, you know. Anyway, lots of big decisions to be made this off-season with our own players, nevermind everyone elses. What to do about LF…is Diaz an everyday player or better suited as a 4th outfielder? The same can be said for Langerhans (great catch by him in CF last night, by the way) Also, are Prado and/or Pena ready for prime time? It seems like there are a lot of good parts to this team…just need to establish roles for all those parts. I’m looking forward to next year bigtime!!!

By MGL

September 28, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

I think that I am agreeing with TennesseePaul and ncscoots. This offense is fine. It would be nice to have a prototypical lead-off hitter, but with the power we have, it is not mandatory. Keep in mind that we lead the league in all power categories, HR, RBI, SLG. If they would just be a little more consistant and patient, they would be awsome.

Let’s not dilute the emphasis needed on pitching. We need a Willis level pitcher, young, but experienced 15+ game potential winner. We also need the same level of 8th inning set-up guy. No more finesse guys, I’d like to see a couple of aggressive guys that get a lot of K’s.

Starters, Smoltz, Huddy, Hampton, James, and new guy. A strong set-up guy and we have plenty of choices for the bullpen with the DL returnees minus Reitsma.

By Antonio McNugget

September 28, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Roll Tide there rammer jammer.

I beleive Glavine, given his position in the union, felt quite a bit of pressure to sign with the money. Andruw seems to want to stay but you never know.

I have a hard time seeing Giles back next year given his 2 hole is filled and he obviously hates leading off.

DOB in your opinion is Pena or Prado’s bat ready for the bigs? This could be the answer to leadoff/2nd base, but you dont want to start the season this way unless you are convinced they are ready. But i guess the other side of the coin is can they possibly struggle as bad as Giles did at the beginning of last year…

By TennesseePaul

September 28, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

Grinch: I’m timing you. Ha!

By journalist jimmy smith

September 28, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

journalist continues to talk only baseball and toes … and why will no one talk pie? this journalist is impressed with part one of dob’s four part series on what must be done to rebuild the braves. when will dob address healthy toes? remember, dob, toe health is vital. probably right for installment three. now, grinch, you are right! journalist has not thought about the need for cleats on the red goose shoes. jimmy smith is not sure red goose makes an athletic shoe. still, red goose shoes appear the answer for all other times and certainly when on the ranch. perhaps we can get dob to ask chipper about this before chipper goes a’huntin’ in five days. “will you be wearing red goose shoes?” now, perhaps a certain wealthy newspaper heiress is softening and will soon be making dob a columnist. the last canned ham was consumed and journalist immediately placed another in the mail - this time with a nice pepperidge farm cracker assortment. “regards, dob” should do the trick. now, a pitcher with a 10.67 era starting for the braves tonight. oh, the humanity!

By Drummerdad

September 28, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

To the Journalist Jimmy Smith: Andy Marte is in Cleveland in case no one else has said so and he ain’t doin’ much. The Braves got the better end of that deal. The Red Sox were happy to say goodbye to Edgar and then deal Andy to Clleveland. The toes thing is amusing even if it is circa 1996 Dick Morris-esque.
Chipper does pose a quandry. Like I’ve said before, to have that kind of money tied up on the disabled list increasingly for the last 3 years tends to hold a team like the Braves hostage. Not in a hostile way, it’s just a fact. TennesseePaul and I have had the speaks about this before and he is an avid Chipper fan. I respect that; it just appears that Chipper is beginning to look a bit like Bernie Kosar and we’ve only got 80mil to work with. When Chipper gets hot it’s great, but then he goes down and it leaves a huge hole. It’s almost like Todd Rundgren’s first band NAZZ. He said they wrote all the music around the drummer’s mistakes. We’re having to build around Chipper’s time on the DL. Wish it weren’t so, but it’s Cronkite from there.
I’m in here from time to time and enjoy it. Thanks DOB for your post today and the shot in the arm it gave this blog. I’ll leave you good folks to carry on. I’m off to teach drum lessons.

By David O'Brien

September 28, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Prado, yes. Pena, no.

They’ll consider Prado for second base if Giles is traded and they can’t get anything better. Don’t know about leadoff, though. Tough to put that on a rookie, but he’s a confident dude. That would have to shake out in spring training if they don’t get a leadoff guy this winter.

Oh, and JJS, never fear. We know who you are. Your prose is easily distinguished from imposters.

By btoy

September 28, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

My Morning Jacket is far superior to Kings of Leon, no contest. Up there with Wilco as best in their generation.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 28, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

esteemed journalist is happy to know DOB knows who jimmy is. is this a chance for jimmy to be closer to dob? will dob let jimmy rub his toes with baby oil? oiled up toes are not to be trifled with. journalist hopes dob will continue to reach out to jimmy in this time in his life. Oh the humanity!

By Head Coach

September 28, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Pitching , Defense and timely hitting. Thats what builds Championships. If you take a look at the Mets offense you can see they have both speed and power(lightning & Thunder), their offensive attack has been the best in the majors this season in my opinion. We have the longball side of the equation and some speed will be needed if we want to keep up with the Jones’s (Mets). Scoots , Paul you are both right. JS has roughly 4 or 5 million more to spend right now and thats adding in Wickmans 6.5 million contract. Its money for one big free agent(Dave Roberts) ? and thats it. Anything else will come via trade , scouting or the low end of the free agent scrapheap. Some interesting potential names are Tony Armas jr. RP , Darin Erstad OF , Luis Gonzalez OF , Tony Graffanino 2B-3B , Rick Helling RP as backup veterans or fifth starters.

By rammerjammer

September 28, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

Hey, Antonio, it’s rollin’ baby!

But I digress. DOB, after reading your Andruw story, it looks like he’s gone.

There’s a certain resolve that seems to be present with Andruw and Boras, a confidence that they’re going to get whatever they want, from whomever they choose.

And JS is resolved too…pitching, pitching and more pitching is his focus.

Don’t lose sight of this—-we’ve enjoyed back-to-back awesome seasons from Andruw, but it was pitching that made us winners.

Get ready to hand the keys to the kids. McCann’s ready, LaRoche is ready, and Francoeur is almost ready.

We survived without Maddox. We survived without Glavine. We’ll survive without Andruw.

By Shaun

September 28, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

It’s hard to remember now, what with another bash-o-rama streak going on, but the Braves struggled mightily to score early in the season, and Giles’ woes had a ripple effect.

I don’t remember the Braves struggling to score that often. Certainly not as often as plenty of other teams. I don’t think it’s necessary to get a “prototypical leadoff guy.”

…

TennesseePaul,

I bring up the extreme examples not because I think the same sort of things will happen with AJ and the Braves. But something somewhat similar is likely to happen if the Braves are smart about dealing AJ and if a decent deal is out there.

I don’t think they’ll get pitchers like Nathan and Liriano; that’s a once-in-a-lifetime type steal. But they could get some quality young players.

They wouldn’t save as much money as the M’s or Rangers did by dealing ARod, but they would save a lot of money that could be used to acquire even more quality players.

Still, I don’t think AJ is likely to be traded (I would say chances are about 60-40 in favor of him not getting moved, if I were guessing). And I don’t think the Braves should move him unless they get at least two young players that have at least more that 1/3 of Andruw’s win-creation potential.

By Bravo Nam

September 28, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

To All the Mets Fans on this Blog While it is satisfying seeing the Braves whip the Mets the past two games, it’s still a hollow feeling. The Mets are going to the playoffs and the Braves aren’t. You were too good this year. Congrats to your team and fans. No one can take away the fact that you won the division this year.

I get that sinking feeling though that you guys may end up suffering the same fate as the Braves in recent years (knocked out in first round) or years previously (only one ring). In many of the Braves 14 division victories, we seemed to stall in the home stretch through injury, complacency or bad luck, ending up stumbling or backing into the playoffs. It feels like that for the Mets this year. And if the Mets do stumble, it won’t be as bad as stumbling 13 out of 14 times…but neither will the pain! The pain of completely dominating a League and then bombing in the playoffs is excruciating- when the Mets bomb (I’m predicting they will), hold on to that feeling and then intensify it another 12 times- only then will you come close to understanding how us Braves feel- particularly when everyone else judges the season as meaningless and in vain coz you didn’t win the ring. Only then can you understand our fury and frustration when people harp on about division titles being meaningless…that all that matters is the ring.

It’s kind of moronic really that success is judged on either winning the ring or not. As if, not winning the ring places all the rest of the playoff contenders in the same category as those teams who didn’t even make the playoffs. It’s moronic because you can dominate a 162 game season…do poorly in a five game- yes five game series- and another team that had an average season grabs a wild card, has a bit of luck, wins three games, and all of a sudden that makes them a better team!

That’s the way things are heading for the Mets this year…in my opinion, even if you get knocked out in the first round, you’ll still have been the best National League team all season.

So, when some idiot gives you shit for being chokers and failures because you didn’t win the WS- you’ll know better- and you’ll want to tell them to piss off, coz the Mets were still better. Just like us Braves fans will tell the rest of you to pi*ss off when you belittle 14 straight division titles- and a number of season when we not only won our division, but flat out dominated the whole league!

Wild Card If MLB is serious about fairness and integrity in baseball, then they either need to extend the first round of playoffs from five to seven or abolish the wild card altogether. How many times have average teams got hot at the back end of the year, got the wild card and continued through the playoffs with that momentum- if you’re a team unlucky enough to face three aces (e.g Houston) in a best of 5 series, kiss your hopes goodbye- only can a seven game series be a fair indication of the depth and ability of both teams.

By Shaun

September 28, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

To everyone:

I have to say O’Brien’s readers are much more intelligent (about baseball at least) than the readers of the “Trade Andruw?” Blog.

By Bravo Nam

September 28, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

Believe it or not, Mets fans are going to be supporting the Braves first time all year in the three game series against the Astros. And why wouldn’t you when the cost of the Braves losing could mean the Mets facing the Astros in the first round!

In the category of really good trades but too late- Wickman…and…Ward!

Talking about Ward, this guy is absolutely mashing in PH duties since becoming a Brave, and in fact has all year. Given Braves historically have problems with their BP and bench, he would be a key acquisition for the Bravos come the offseason.

By Shaun

September 28, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Wild Card If MLB is serious about fairness and integrity in baseball, then they either need to extend the first round of playoffs from five to seven or abolish the wild card altogether. How many times have average teams got hot at the back end of the year, got the wild card and continued through the playoffs with that momentum- if you’re a team unlucky enough to face three aces (e.g Houston) in a best of 5 series, kiss your hopes goodbye- only can a seven game series be a fair indication of the depth and ability of both teams.

I agree with you about expanding the playoffs. Make all rounds 7 games. I don’t really mind the wild card because half the time the wild card is better than the two other division winners. The only bad thing about it is no more great pennant races between two great teams (ala 1993, Braves-Giants).

By David O'Brien

September 28, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Levae it to an old drummer to come up with this metaphor:

“When Chipper gets hot it’s great, but then he goes down and it leaves a huge hole. It’s almost like Todd Rundgren’s first band NAZZ. He said they wrote all the music around the drummer’s mistakes. We’re having to build around Chipper’s time on the DL. Wish it weren’t so, but it’s Cronkite from there.”

DRUMMERDAD, that was outstanding. And I can’t disagree.

There’s a NEW BLOG UP. All are welcome.

By David O'Brien

September 28, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Bravo Nam, so true regarding Ward. Hard to believe they got him for a minor league A-ball prospect whohad Tommy John surgery this summer.

By jim

September 29, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

the only bad thing about keeping andrew is we will never sign him, i would rather trade him and get a solid starter and maybe another bullpen arm. I would trade renteria and hudson for a solid, speedy, 300 lead off hitter, renteria just does not cover enough ground. We actually have a great young nucleus for a great team for a long time to come, with a reliever in the first half we would be right there knocking on the FADING mets door and well ahead in the wild card. I was in Denver over the weekend watching the braves, hitting is not our problem pitching and defense is. Bobby and Terry really need to slow some of the young agressive hitters down, we are swinging at way too many balls and two many double plays. Go braves whatever the result I will always be behind them, the our my tean