Braves

By jim from tenn

September 22, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

Looks like the guys are starting to have fun now that the stress is off about making it to the playoffs.

By jim from tenn

September 22, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

Looks like the guys are starting to have fun now that the stress is off about making it to the playoffs.

By nathan

September 22, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Excellent blog DOB.

I wish I was there. My father in law lives in the Springs. I was down their (Co-Springs) this spring. It looks like all of those players are up right now. LOT OF GOOD TALENT in that organization. The Rockies will benefit from finally going to YOUNG talent. That they can “groom” for that park (Coors Field)

Enjoy your jogs.

By Rosalynn

September 22, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Jimma just got through saying that Chippa needs to do some moah stretching, when the new blog appeared saying the same thing. That’s why Jimma was leader of the free world and has a submarine named after him.

Hello, Grinch. Jimma doesn’t know I am on the blog right now so let’s keep it our little secret, okay? One time at the old Atlanta Fulton County Stadium, Jimma called David Justice over to the box seats we were in and offered David some peanuts. All of a sudden, someone three or four rows back hauled off and threw an entire peanut on David Justice! I thought David Justice was going to go into the stands after that boy but David looked up and the poor boy had a string hanging out of his nose and he was drooling and slobbering and looking all around for somebody named Jimmy. Well, the Secret Service did not take kindly to that! They wrestled this little fella to the ground and he promptly soiled himself. He was shrieking and flailing away like a little girl but he was talking tough! He said, “Jimmy, I am smarter than you and certainly more clever, You will see. You will see . . .” Well, the Secret Service led that boy off and I never thought about him again until I read this blog and found out about you know who … Now, let’s talk about America’s Past Time. Jimma and I are concerned about Chippa’s toes. Chippa didn’t last two days off the DL before his toe got soah. Jimma thinks Chippa may need to weah a toe cap when he takes the field. Chippa is said to have gone shopping for a toe cap while he was in Japan seeing that Japanese cobbla that makes Chippa’s shoes. Chippa would say, “toe cap” and the Japanese would say “no, toe-yota.”

By Lew

September 22, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

Journalist Bob-From the last blog. Are you talking about the good old days when Tech was good? Wasn’t that around the same time that F.Scott Fitzgerald was a contemporary author? Wasn’t the President Rutherford B. Hayes or Warren G. Harding? Maybe Teddy Roosevelt? You can always HOPE Tech can beat Georgia, but recent history ( the past 25 or 30 years), shows the Dawgs OWN Tech. Good Luck. Woof Woof.

By Rosalynn

September 22, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

Lew, Jimma went to Georgia Tech. They had a man there named Bobby Dodd that is quite a legend. He used to regularly beat a fella named Wally Butts. So, yes, it has been awhile and every dawg has its day. Jimma reminded me today about Billa Lothridge. Billa was about the best football playah Jimma has ever seen. Billa would kick off, then play a little quataback, then punt or kick the extra point or field goal, then play a little safety, to boot. All American and almost won the Heisman. Jimma thinks Billa hurt a toe one time and that started the famous “toe meets leather” call you would heah from the late al ciraldo. one time al ciraldo came up behind me in … well, we’ll save that one for anotha day. Has anyone seen the blogger once known as Jimmy Smith? Whoa … there he goes! Duck! There he goes again. Some people obsess about Jimmy Smith. Jimma thinks the old Jimmy Smith was a lot smarter than the new one.

By Robert

September 22, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

Andru - best defensive center fiedler in the game, and one of the two or three best ever

The maddening thing about him is that despite all the natural talkent, overall he will always remain just short of sensational

A star who will never quite be a superstar

I think Andru’s problem in this regard is threefold

1.It always came so easy to him at lower levels that he just didnt have the work ethic drilled into him by need - He’s the college kid who cruises by with a 3.4 GPA - Do you study 3 extra hours a night for the 4.0, or do you coast and party?

2.He is not the brightest bulb in the box

3.He has never had good leadership from his manager

Actually, one of the few times I have EVER seen Cox do anything useful that didnt involve his being ejected was once years ago when he pulled Andru for doggin it

Never drove the lesson home tho, and didnt have the brains or skills to teach the kid solid fundamentals

Andru’s career adjusted OPS stood at 116 entering this season, with a high of 133. A career value of 120 or over is a legit HOF CANDIDATE, and a career 140 or over is just about a lock. To ME, Andru, at this point, doesnt really add anything to the HOF

As far as keeping him on the Braves, you couldnt replace his defense at any price, but overall, you can get two (or three) solid players for what he would cost and have a better team overall

It’s tough to let him go. Whether you love to cheer him or boo him, fact is Andru has become part of the culture in this town. Heck, he grew up here. But it’s time

(Chipper, by the way, is a 141 - with a large number of at bats at third base) He is a LOCK, maybe not first ballot, but a lock HOFer - you can mortgage the house to make that bet

By Lew

September 22, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

Rosalyn-You are, indeed, a perceptive individual. Journalist Jimmy Smith was quite good when he was Really Journalist Jimmy Smith. The copy is never as good as the original. Yes, I’m aware that our Esteemed Former President and House Builder Extraordinaire is a Tech alum. This automatically gives them credence as a fine institution of advanced learning. However, during my lifetime, the Dawgs have had the best of the rivalry. I would hope, as a loyal Dawgs fan, that the trend will continue well into the 21st Century. Go Dawgs, beat the Buffaloes. Woof Woof. Now baseball-It sincerely pains me that Andruw does not get the respect that he is due from the Braves nation. Come on y’all, where’s the love for Andruw?

By TennesseePaul

September 22, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

Nice Post DOB. Thanks.

Let’s do this tonight Bravos! Come on Hudson. Gitterdun!

GO BRAVES

By Kentavo

September 22, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

Andruw had his career year last year - and he can be the difference maker in a game, as last night proved. But, he is not clutch. He does not perform well when the game is on the line in late innings. Furthermore, he dogs it. He’s probably hurt more than he’s letting on right now, but he still dogs it. And falling down while swinging thing? He seems to come up with a new bad habit at the plate each year. His lack of effort and lackadaisacal attitude kind of sums up the Braves post season failures. I want to see him get mad and passionate, ala Smoltz. Is it a coincidence that they’ve only been to one WS since Andruw arrived as a full-time player? His defense would be missed, but his offense could be replaced with someone else that’s more consistent, like Carlos Lee.

By Rupert

September 22, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

3.He has never had good leadership from his manager

Donkey on the BLOG. HEEEHAWWW.

When’s this @ss going to get it through his buck teeth, Cox is a GREAT MANAGER!

HEEEHAAAWWWW J@ckass on the blog.

By Sigourney Weaver

September 22, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

I am new to the blog. My name is Sigourney. You got a problem with that? I am a casual baseball fan and a big fan of journalist jimmy smith and journalist dave o’brien. journalist o’brien used to write me letters … oh, well, I came to the blog last night to learn that journalist jimmy smith has been replaced by a new person calling himself jimmy smith - a rather dull, insipid individual(s). Well, I was prepared to blog here with you baseball fans tonight but I now must go out in search of the real jimmy smith. Has anyone seen him? Someone sees him everywhere. Someone obsesses over jimmy smith but I can’t say who. Do you know who? Never can tell who’s on this blog anymore since that person decided to become every blogger. Let me talk some baseball before I go. My uncle Earl Weaver used to tell me when I was a little girl, “The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers.” He also used to say, whoa … that was him . . , that was jimmy smith! Game time is 8:05. Kermit is pitching for them.

By TennesseePaul

September 22, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this

Andruw only has a few shots to go and that’ll be back to back 40 homer season from him… When was the last time we had a player do that? Honestly… I don’t know. I love Hank, but don’t tell me we haven’t had anyone do it since Aaron left.

By AZBravoFan

September 22, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this

DOB: What has happened to Andruw’s swing? How did he get from that nice, balanced, wide stance patterened after Pujols that we had most of the year last year to this bizarre, falling backward, down on one knee nonesense? Is TP concerned about this at all, or is he just gonna throw in the towel, take the 40 HR 125 rbi and run? Seems like if he just dialed it down a little and tried to hit some balls the other way (we know he can do it, we’ve seen it) he could hit .350 and not really sacrifice much power. I know we’ve been talking about this for years but man, it sure is frustrating to watch him sometimes.

By geauxbraves2000

September 22, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

Aw man, Robert come on, you’ve got to let this go, this is maddening. No matter what you or I or anyone think about BC he is not going anywhere. You can post your love for him a million times and it won’t do any good, except drive people away from this blog. You are starting to make this blog a displeasure to come to. I really enjoy reading other peoples opinion, & I like chiming in with my own opinion, but this is getting ridiculous. Why don’t you change your user name to BC Hater, at least then maybe your posts would vary.

I’m not trying to start an argument, for the regulars know I’m not like that, so please don’t take any offense.

I may or may not speak for the others here, but you have got to let it go. This getting way beyond old.

Come on Braves, can’t win the rest of the games if you don’t win tonight :)

Geaux Braves!!

By David O'Brien

September 22, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

AZBravoFan, if only there were easy answers to Andruw’s batting stance, approach, etc. There’s not. Pendleton has tried, and continues to, but yes, there is some of that throw-in-the-towell and grudgingly accept the 35-45 homers and 120 RBIs, because ultimately Andruw is going to do what Andruw wants to do.

By geauxbraves2000

September 22, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Why do the Braves employ coaches though if no one is going to listen to them. What’s the point?

By TennesseePaul

September 22, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

grudgingly accept the 35-45 homers and 120 RBIs

I hate it when we have to do that.
For cryin’ out loud! Alright. Fine. Have it your way! We’ll settle for 40 HR and 120 RBIs, but we don’t have to like it!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 22, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

Robert, you’re constant thrashing of Cox really gets old, man. Really! The guy has made mistakes but no one wins 15 straight division titles by accident. Nobody! Even Joe Torre with all the money he wants at his disposal deserves some credit for doing it 9 straight years. Too many things can go wrong during a season and both of these guys have always been good at keeping the ship steered on course.

Robert, a lesser manager would have allowed this team to mail it in back in June instead of being the 2nd or 3rd best team in the NL since the all-star break. If you don’t like him, that is fine and its your right. Constantly thrashing him is your right as well, I just wish you would go somewhere else to do it. It gets tiring. Just like the Chipper bashing, LaRoche bashing, and Giles bashing. It is baseless and in most case pure ignorance.

By AZBravoFan

September 22, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

Ryan Howard doesn’t settle for 40 HR and 120 RBI…

By Bob, journalist

September 22, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

Lew, it was more like 50 years ago … back when intramural sports were of consequence and “scholarship” meant more than being paid to help the school make money and the coach to keep his job.

But it wasn’t before the days of scalpers … I remember seeing two tickets to the 1956 Tech-Vol game go for $6,000 … which would have paid for a pretty decent college education in those days.

Just as memorable were the four tickets that I gave my father to the infamous Tech - Pitt Sugar Bowl; after we pounded the Dawgs 28-3, I think. He gave them to his boss who rented a plane, flew us to New Orleans … took a taxi to the game; having the driver wait … and then flew back home immediately after the game!

Actually, I know quite a few nice folks that spent time down between the hedges, including my son … but he got his real education out behind the barn, as little Jimmy would say.

Grinch, Lew’s at it again … reading posts meant for you.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 22, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, it seems by signing Wickman and Smoltz before the season ends that JS has learned from some of his mistakes. In your opinion, how hard do you think JS will attempt to get a leadoff hitter, some more bullpen help, and another starter? Also, who are some of the names that you think will be sought after or you have heard about?

By Shaun Payne

September 22, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure Andruw is any more streaky than some other good hitters. He strikes out a lot, which is just part of the package, and he’s not the only power hitter in baseball that has or will strikeout a lot. The good thing is he draws enough walks, gets enough hits and hits enough homers in between those strikeouts to be a very productive player. Not to mention the stellar defense.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 22, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this

Payne, the Braves need a leadoff hitter, at least one more bullpen arm, and another starter. Who are the guys you would target if you were GM?

By Bob, journalist

September 22, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

David O’B on point as per usual …”ultimately, Andruw is going to do what Andruw wants to do” sounds a lot like Jeff’s “I’ve got to be me” … but Andruw’s the most talented defensive outfielder I’ve ever seen and Jeff ain’t fully growed yet.

The good thing is that we get to enjoy them for what they are … the sad thing is that we will never be witness to what might have been … were it not for the stubborness.

By Stinky

September 22, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith is back in the form of someone called Rosalynn, Oh the humanity!

By Stinky

September 22, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this

Jimmy Smith is a transverbite.

By Marc, Baseball Fan

September 22, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this

Friends, Bloggers, Countrymen, lend me your ears; I come to praise Chipper, not to bash him; The evil that men do lives after them, The good is oft interréd with their bones, So let it be with Chipper…. The noble DOB Hath told you Chipper was sore of toe: If it were so, it was a grievous fault, And grievously hath Chipper answered it…. Here, under leave of DOB and the rest, (For DOB is an honourable man; So are they all; all honourable men) Come I to speak in Chipper’s behalf…. He is my friend, faithful and just to me: But DOB says he is sore of toe; And DOB is an honourable man…. Chipper hath brought many division signs home to us, Whose luster did the stadium enhance: Did this in Chipper seem unseemly? When that the fnas have cried, Chipper hath wept: Toes should be made of sterner stuff: Yet DOB says Chipper was sore of toe; And DOB is an honourable man. You all did love him once, not without cause: What cause withholds you then to mourn for him while he is out of the game? O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason…. Bear with me; My heart is in the dugout there with Chipper And I must pause till it come back to me.

By Columbo

September 22, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

Hey, Stinky, YOU are jimmy smith now. Stick with the name so we can identify you. You wanted it and you got it. You sure do think about the old jimmy smith a lot, don’t you? Are you obsessed? Have you decided to pick on the old jimmy exclusively now and leave others alone? You see him everywhere don’t you? You think Rosalynn is jimmy smith? Are you Rosalynn, too? You sound like a sick puppy to me. Why don’t you confess to ol’ Columbo? Hit us with another pearl of wisdom, son.

By BirdDawg

September 22, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

The Braves and their players reflect their manager.

There is a reason why Andruw Jones has always been an almost player. An if only player. A but players.

He should have been one of the greats, but because Bobby Cox is his manager, he’s simply one of the goods. Same with Furcal, who should have been the Ichiro of the NL, but instead became a lead off hitter who thinks he’s a cleanup hitter.

Bobby Cox is the link to everything in this organization. From the regular season wins to the colossal playoff collapses to players who had and have the talent to be great but who, for some reason (Bobby’s coddling), never reach their expectations.

If Derek Jeter played for the Braves, he wouldn’t be Derek Jeter. He’d be Andruw Jones or Rafael Furcal or Jeff Francour.

But an excellent blog nonetheless.

Why do the Braves, a team who hasn’t won anything important since 1995, get a great guy like Dave O covering them, while us Dawgs get stuck with the suck that is Carter Strickland?

By brewdawg

September 22, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

Well, I haven’t blogged in a while and didn’t want people to think I was a fair-weather fan or anything so I thought I’d share some of my thoughts about my beloved-no matter what- Braves. First, Smoltz has become probably my 2nd favorite all-time Brave, nudging ahead of Avery, but still behind the Murph. His performances, even during a bad season, sometimes gives me chills. You can almost see his heart out there on the field when he’s done. I may cry when he either retires or goes to another team, something I haven’t done since the Murph. ( And I’m not one bit afraid or ashamed to admit it ). As for next year, I’d love to see Glavine back so he can win his 300th as a Brave, but I’m not confident about it. Either way, I like the way our rotation will set up next year, because I believe Hampton will be back in full force and win at least 15. Hudson might be our 4th starter imo, behind Smoltz, Hampton, and James. I know it probably won’t set up that way but as far as stats go, I believe that is how it will turn out. Okay, I know long blogs get annoying, so I’ll finish with this: Let’s win these last 9 and get the WC!

By NPD

September 22, 2006 08:06 PM | Link to this

OK jimmy (and Lew) Lying is an integral part of the narcissist’s behavior and all their self-reports are unreliable. His cognition is impaired to the extent that he frequently misinterprets other’s speech, actions, and thoughts. He may believe that someone respects or loves him although this is a fantasy which exists only in the mind of the narcissist.

Narcissists will over inflate their own accomplishments, are boastful, and pretentious. They frequently will compare themselves to people of great accomplishments and are surprised when others do not agree with them. In fact, it is not unusual for the narcissist to compare himself with “God”.

A narcissistic individual displays beliefs and behaviors that indicate a sense of ‘specialness’ or ‘uniqueness’. He expects favorable treatment from others and wants automatic compliance with his requests. He expects to be the center of attention, and is mystified when he doesn’t get what he wants. If an individual disappoints him then he will attempt to devalue that person. Oh the Humanity jimmy smith.

By Stinky

September 22, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this

Columbo smells funny, Oh the humanity!

By stinky

September 22, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

I sure have trouble finding depends for someone as big as myself(I weigh 500 lbs) can anyone help me out???

By Retiring for the night

September 22, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

You disappoint us, new jimmy. Surely, you can do better than that. Here you wanted to blog as jimmy smith. Well, here’s your chance - you own the handle. Knock yourself out. And as far as scolding others about lying … well, you better stay indoors during the storms. And you citicize de-valuing others? How ironic. You are one pitiable puppy. Blog with yourself.

By TennesseePaul

September 22, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this

The Braves and their players reflect their manager.
John Smoltz. Only player to play for the Braves during the entire run. Won a Cy Young and set a single season Atlanta record for wins. Set the all time national league record for single season saves. Holds the all time record for post season victories. Is only a couple hundered strike outs away from 3,000. Is one of only 2 pitchers with 150+ wins and 150+ saves. Owns the franchise career saves record, which he set in just over 3 seasons.

The Braves and their players reflect their manager.
Chipper Jones. Tied for third best all time franchise batting average, behind Hank Aaron and Hugh Duffy. 4th on the all time franchise Home Run list behind Aaron, Mathews and Murphy. Second on the all time franchise list in career doubles, behind Aaron. Tied the consecutive extra base hit streak this season. Won an NL MVP award. Highest batting average all time for a switch hitter with 300+ homers.

The Braves and their players reflect their manager.
Terry Pendelton: 1991 MVP.

The Braves and their players reflect their manager.
Greg Maddux: Won 3 consecutive Cy Young awards. Career 300 game winner with 3000 strike outs. Won 196 while playing for Cox in Atlanta.

The Braves and their players reflect their manager.
Tom Glavine: 2 time Cy Young winner, potential 300 game winner. Pitched the winning game in the 1995 World Series.

The Braves and their players reflect their manager.
Atlanta Braves Silver Slugger Winners:
Andruw Jones 2005
Johnny Estrada 2004
Mike Hampton 2003
Javy Lopez 2003
Gary Sheffield 2003
Chipper Jones 2000
Chipper Jones 1999
Tom Glavine 1998
Jeff Blauser 1997
John Smoltz 1997
Tom Glavine 1996
Tom Glavine 1995
David Justice 1993
Fred McGriff 1993
Ron Gant 1991
Tom Glavine 1991

There’s more, but this post is getting pretty long. Well, one last thing…
Braves teams finished in 1st place 14 of the past 16 seasons and won 5 NL penants and a World Series.

By TheSouthernJackAss

September 22, 2006 09:11 PM | Link to this

I sure am glad to see that since my absence ol’ DOB’s blog has become so civilized, and is just emanating with proper blogging decorum, and baseball!!!…GOODNITE!!!…

By berigan

September 22, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this

You know, it is funny to talk about Andruw not reaching his potential, yet driving in 120 RBI’s for the second straight season is something special, and something that is rarely accomplished. If he ends up with a team like the Red Sox, and can DH to rest now and then(I think Bobby plays guys too much, and CF is a very tough position to average 160 Games a season) he’ll drive in 140 a season at least.

By geauxbraves2000

September 22, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this

Excellent numbers and excellent post TennPaul. We all know BC is on his way to the hall. I truly do dread the day he chooses to leave the Braves.

Geaux Braves!!

By berigan

September 22, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, excellent post!

By Lew

September 22, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

NPD-Thanks for your personality evaluation. It is a perceptve individual, indeed, who knows himself as well as you do. The other day you mentioned being a Socratic fan. Could I interest you in a hemlock cocktail? Isn’t this blog a marvelous place when even the lunatics quote Shakespeare. I love it. Journalist Bob-Now you do realize that the Grinch is a mere Bulldog fan, while I am an alumnus of the Esteemed University of Georgia. Grinch’s support is, however, much appreciated and speaks well for him.

By geauxbraves2000

September 22, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

Hudson throws 27 pitches (or so) last 1/2 inning, so what does Rent & LaRoche do? Make 2 outs on 2 pitches. This overagressiveness is staring to become ridiculous. The inning is over even before I clicked “post”.

By berigan

September 22, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

Is anyone else having problems posting? I can post, but can’t go forward, only backwards.Hmmm. Sorta like the braves season ;)

By Larry Munson

September 22, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

All these loony tunes are killing us. You can’t tell the players with or without a scorecard. Lew, Grinch, keep the faith and hunker down. Its gonna be a long night.

By TennesseePaul

September 22, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

We gotta keep Hudson on short rest. It’s the only way he can do it.

By geauxbraves2000

September 22, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, Hudson is pitching exactly as I expected and bullpen is warming up. My advice to the offense: STOP SWINGING AT EVERY STINKING PITCH AND SCORE SOME RUNS! 3 runs ain’t gonna cut it. They are probably going to need at least 10, so:

Geaux Braves!!

By Lew

September 22, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this

Is everyone convinced that Hudson is going to have a complete turnaround next year?

By TennesseePaul

September 22, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

Let’s do this Bravos. We’ve climbed out of a whole all season, just another couple of weeks. Gitterdun!

GO BRAVES

By Lew

September 22, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this

For all who felt that we should trade Andruw for “Prospects” and Coco Crisp. The Red Sox just shut Crisp down for the rest of the season to have surgery on his finger. His season totals- .264 BA 8 HR and 36RBI in 105 games. Well that sure would have replaced Andruw, wouldn’t it.

By Goat Horns

September 22, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

Hudson once again is not throwing enough strikes. 100 pitches in 5 innings is ridiculous for a veteran.

In the 3rd inning he started overstriding which makes him throw uphill and not get on top of the ball.

Where was Roger to correct him on this? A high school coach would easily have noticed this.

By The Grinch

September 22, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

Sorry, Y’all; I actually had something to do for a while on a Friday night. I know, I know, how inconsiderate of me. Lew, I considered that a nasty dig you made about my alma mater; allow me to mention the fact that while Michael Adams is destroying UGA’s tradition by raising the academic standards and curtailing the party atmosphere, Ga. Southern was ranked No. 2 NCAA party school in the country last year (behind Colorado), and has six national championships to boot (three of them under Erk Russell, who’s about as much of a Dawg as has ever lived). I am a die-hard Dawgs fan and always will be, but I by god got a proper education. I can still tap a keg with my eyes closed. :-) Bob, you said your son went to UGA and got most of his education behind the woodshed. That stands to reason, as that’s where the Dawgs have been taking the Jackets ever since The Beatles hit it big. Woof, Woof, Woof!

By Bryan

September 22, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this

hey dave, go to boulder and check out mountain sun brewery. The best beer in colorado (and enjoy the fat tire while your there).

Been a while since I posted.

Bryan

By braveheart

September 22, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this

DOB is a great writer who tells it like it is and who, like peter gammons, truly seems to be a postive person who loves the sport and the teams and players he covers. BUT man, oh man, the bloogers who respond to his posts seem to live in an alternate universe. there needs to be a BEWARE: NO TRESPASSING sign at the top of his blogs. what a bunch of freaks you all are. i have no idea what language you all are speaking or what planet you all come from but i have to admit that you all seem to know each other pretty well and seem to have alot of fun here responding to dave’s blogs and fighting with each other and making really obscure inside jokes to each other. what a circus. alright, i’ve been reading this blog too long now and am now getting scared that one of you freaks are going to snare me and beam me up the mother ship, so it’s time to go. keep up the good work DOB and keep loving your job and the sport and the people you cover. there truly are too few of your type in your profession.

By geauxbraves2000

September 22, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

Lew, I hope Hudson does have a complete turnaround next year, for another team. Davies can throw just as good as Huddy at a fraction of the cost.

Geaux Braves!!

By Bryan

September 22, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

hey dave, go to boulder and check out mountain sun brewery. The best beer in colorado (and enjoy the fat tire while your there).

Been a while since I posted.

Bryan

By Jim

September 22, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

Robert,

I don’t know how bright a bulb Andrew is or isn’t, nor do I expect that you do either. I know that Andruw can speak four different languages and I am willing to bet that you can only post your nonsense in 1.

By The Grinch

September 22, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

Geauxbraves, did you actually call Robert out as being redundant, irritating, etc. to the point that he was making the blog an unhappy place for everyone else? Man, be glad you ain’t got stinky on your case! Roslynn, if Jimmah had been a Dawg instead of a nat he would’ve been a better president. Not smarter, mind you, but more effective. :-)

By Lew

September 22, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

BraveHeart-On a good day, it sure beats Jerry Springer, for sure.

By The Grinch

September 22, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

Bryan, enjoying the fat tire usually comes several days after one consumes lots of good beer. Braveheart: Run! Quick! We’re firing up the tractor beam!

By Lew

September 22, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

Now what’s so crazy about this blog? We have creative individuals who hang with antelopes and alien worms, psychoanalytic patients who are familiar with Arostotlean philosophy, writers of movie reviews and more people who can quote Shakespeare than I saw at UGA. Yes, there are some lunatics lurking in the dark corners carrying on conversations with themselves, but overall there are some pretty good Braves fans from all over the place. We’re really no more disfunctional than any other family with tons of skeletons in their closets. So what if these skeletons get out frequently and dance madly as if they were in a Tim Burton movie? Huh? So what?

By Don

September 22, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

Hudson Sucks again. Go figure.

By MEB

September 22, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry DOB but Andruw isn’t nearly as maddening as Huddy!

By Don

September 22, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

Hudson stinks again, go figure!

By The Grinch

September 22, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this

Don, I think you can remove the “again” from the sentence. Lew, I agree. Imagine if we all just spent all our time discussing sabremetrics. Oops! Love ya, though, Shaun! :-)

By Rosalynn

September 22, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

Grinch, my Jimmah was effective and smart. Did I mention he has a submarine named after him? The USS Jimmah Carta. Just last week, Jimma picked up his hammah and hammahed togetha a brand new Habitat house for a poor boy there in Atlanta with a string in his nose. Jimma said it was a strange deal all around because the poor boy was spittin and fartin at everybody and saying how much smarta he was than everyboda else. Of course, he’s not smarta than mah Jimma. Jimma soon had the poor boy squealing like a little girl and calling everybody a narcissist. Then, he’d rub his own parts and say, pretty, pretty, I’m so pretty. Gives me the creeps to think about that one. Jimma had a Secret Service man close by in case the boy was violent but worst thing he did was soil himself and shriek like a little girl. No wonder he wants to be somebody else - wouldn’t you? Let me talk a little baseball -Jimma and I sit close to the field at the Ted. Jimma says Tim Hudson has no out pitch. Everything looks alike coming up there - kinda like someone else we know.

By MEB

September 22, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

DOB… Andruw is not near as maddening as Huddy! I would rather see the Vulture get the start.

By Spokesperson

September 22, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

I have been authorized to say that the above post is not from Former First Lady Rosalynn Carter. Perhaps it is from the Stinky Blogger, SDA, and/or from journalist jimmy smith. Where is jimmy smith tonight? Here he is with a new handle and suddenly he is shy? Come out and play, jimmy. This is what you’ve been wanting.

By The Grinch

September 22, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

I stand corrected, Miss Rosalynn! I shall refrain from such comments in the future. How many toes does one need to have an effective out pitch? My guess is Hudson’s short a couple. ‘course, he DID go to Auburn…

By Rosalynn

September 22, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

When I was first learning to make home-made biscuits my Momma would let them cool on the counter and then she would get out Daddy’s grinder and take the top layer off. Then Momma would polish the tops of the biscuits with some cleanser and we would have nice casters for our furniture. Jimma has never let me forget this. Sometimes he will just be downright insulting about my biscuits. Last time he had something to say, I told Jimma that he had attended his last peace conference if you know what I mean. The purpose of this story is to tell you how hurtful others can sometimes be when they criticize yo biscuits. Here bloggers are tonight criticizing young Tim Hudson’s biscuits that he is throwing up to the plate. Now, why would you nice people do that? And this ugly blogger, always talking about narcisstic tendencies. Son, you need to keep yo biscuits in yo pants. You are a sick little boy using bathroom humor when biscuit talk would suffice. Have a nice day.

By The Grinch

September 22, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this

Lordy, lordy…on that note, I think I’ll take a hiatus. Later, all!

By Tyler

September 22, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

So…we traded Betemit for a reliever that won’t resign…hmmm. BRILLIANT (for mets fans)

By Tyler

September 22, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

So…we traded Betemit for a reliever that won’t resign…hmmm. BRILLIANT (for mets fans)

By Stinky Smith

September 22, 2006 11:57 PM | Link to this

I grew up not too far from Cousin Jimmy. He was a strange one, always talking in the 3rd person (“Jimmy doesn’t want cake, he wants pie”), binging on root beer and cheese, wearing diapers until he was 8, wetting the bed untill he was 13.

His fascination with feet, though, was really creepy. He was arrested outside the Thom Mccann for peeping-tomery. No one said much about the trenchcoat and camera, but the wailing of “oh the humanity” did sort of disrupt business to a degree that warranted his first restraining order. His second came when he stalked his podiatrist. Nothing violent, mind you. But he did start pulling out his own toenails just too keep seeing that lady doctor and she referred him to another doctor in Milledgeville.

But, all in all, Jimmy was mostly harmless. Wouldn’t hurt a fly. That new blogger that wants to be both Stinky and Jimmy, though, is different. He needs some Zoloft.

By David O'Brien

September 23, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

MEB, I agree Andruw’s not as maddening as Huddy. Sort of. By that I mean, I’ve come to expect Huddy to be horrible after ever good start, so it’s not so maddening anymore.

Of course I’m not paying him $47 mill over four seasons. YIKES. His two worst seasons have been his first two with Atlanta.

Check a couple of these stats from my game story:

Hudson’s ERA is up to 4.96, and he’s 6-8 with a 5.87 ERA in his past 20 starts.

He gave up a two-run homer in the second inning by September callup Jeff Baker, the career-high 25th homer allowed by Hudson.

Hudson has issued 76 walks against 139 strikeouts, after totaling 65 walks and 115 strikeouts in his first season with the Braves.

This from a guy who had more than twice as many strikeouts as walks in all six of his seasons for Oakland, including 162 strikeouts with 61 walks in 2003, 152 strikeouts with 62 walks in 2002, and 181 strikeouts with 71 walks in 2001.

He’s approaching his career-high 82 walks set in 2000, but he had 162 strikeouts and a 20-6 record that season.

By Head Coach

September 23, 2006 12:21 AM | Link to this

So , Baez wants to go elsewhere. Gee what a suprise , lol. That leaves it a Betemit for Aybar trade which is almost a non-trade unless Aybar proves to be a better player in the future. Both Huddy and Andruw are maddening and Chipper has a new caddy at third , such is the symtoms of the season of inconsistency it has been. any chance at .500 just went down the tubes tonight which underscores my gripe about Bobby not playing the rookies more since the rosters expanded. O well , the dirty birds and dogs are winning.

By gotigers72

September 23, 2006 12:32 AM | Link to this

I wish somebody could get into Andruw’s head and get him to try and hit the ball the other way some. I still believe his power numbers would be the same, and his strikeouts would go down with his average going up. Looks like it ain’t gonna happen though. But he’s still one of the best, if not the best, centerfielders to ever play the game.

I agree about Smoltz deserving a lifetime contract. I still don’t understand bloggers and others wanting to trade Marcus. Prado, Aybar, nor anybody else the Braves have can hold Marcus’ jockstrap as a second baseman. He is 1 - a great baserunner [not basestealer] -hardly ever makes a mistake on the bases. 2 - Tremendous fielding 2nd baseman. Have you not seen all of those diving catches he makes where he gets up and throws the guy out? Or those plays where he gets buried at 2nd on double play balls yet still makes an accurate throw to first? 3 - An above average hitter with pop 4 - Someone that plays the game with hustle and enthusiasm 5 - Someone that has publicly said that he WANTS to be a Brave. WHAT ELSE COULD YOU POSSIBLY WANT IN AN MLB PLAYER. He’s one of the best 2nd basemen in the game and will be for a number of years. He would be one of the last guys I would trade.

I agree with you DOB about Sean Penn being one of the greatest actors ever. Johnny Depp ain’t too shabby either.

By berigan

September 23, 2006 12:35 AM | Link to this

DOB, I still wonder if Hudson isn’t hurt. Perhaps he doesn’t even know it. I know, that sounds kinda screwy, but I would bet he could hit the low 90’s in Oakland when he needed to. Every time I see a homer off him, it’s 86, 89. I think some guys with rotator cuff issues don’t feel that much pain….

By BirdDawg

September 23, 2006 01:05 AM | Link to this

Hey, TennesseePaul, you dumb Vol, how about a little reality check, okay?

The Braves have only finished in first place once.

ONCE.

One wonders why the Braves apologists are so enamored with 14 division flags. Other teams don’t put up division flags. Some may put up league pennants. But most put up World Series Titles, because all that matters.

How many division flags have the Yankees won? How many freaking pennants have the Yankees won?

Who cares, because the Yankees don’t. The only number that matters to them is 26.

And the only number that is important for the Atlanta Braves is 1. As in this team has went to the postseason 14 straight times and only won one World Series. This is horrible. You go to a casino to play roulette or craps and the odds wouldn’t be that bad.

Hell, you could play Russian Roulette and the odds wouldn’t be that bad.

TennesseePaul, this team has only one World Series Title because they are their manager’s team. They’re great in June, but fall apart when it truly matters.

Think about this, you apologists, would any of you read a book, watch a play or movie, or listen to a song that ended half way through and didn’t finish? Would any of you want to drive over a bridge that didn’t reach the other side? Would any of you board a plane to Japan that ran out of fuel halfway into the trip over the Pacific?

That’s that Atlanta Braves. They’re the almost there team. They’re the halfway team. They’re the woulda, coulda, shoulda team. They’re the and, if, but team.

And it’s funny that guys like TennesseePaul are going to stand up and defend the kind of mindblowing chokage that this team has put up since 1991.

But we usually love things that are bad for us. Chocolate. Fried chicken. The Atlanta Braves.

By Jamie

September 23, 2006 01:06 AM | Link to this

DOB - Do you think Hudson problems could be the same as JD Drews. Got the big contract and doesn’t have the same fire anymore?? I am not a big Tony L. fan but when he talked, one time on XM radio, how player seem to change when they get that big contract. I did have to sit up and listen.

By Jamie

September 23, 2006 01:07 AM | Link to this

DOB - Do you think Hudson problems could be the same as JD Drews. Got the big contract and doesn’t have the same fire anymore?? I am not a big Tony L. fan but when he talked, one time on XM radio, how player seem to change when they get that big contract. I did have to sit up and listen.

By Dtrain

September 23, 2006 01:18 AM | Link to this

Just got back from a night of partying and am probably posting too late to be read by anyone with a life.

But on the off chance DOB eventually sees it…Dave, what is your definition of competitiveness?

I’ve watched Smoltz pitch for years and am always a little turned off by all the pouting and posturing he does on the mound. He questions every call he doesn’t get within a foot of the plate—sometimes even looking into the Braves dugout as if Bobby should try to reverse the call.

I sincerely believe he is more concerned with his personal stats than anything else.

It’s obvious he is still a very effective pitcher. I just wish he’d grow up someday.

He’s almost 40!

By MEB

September 23, 2006 01:30 AM | Link to this

BirdDawg… you dumb Mets fan, get a life!

By NPD

September 23, 2006 01:36 AM | Link to this

On second thought jimmy smith you’re just another ignorant southern puke looking for attention! Lew, you go girl!

By TennesseePaul

September 23, 2006 02:02 AM | Link to this

Hey, TennesseePaul, you dumb Vol, how about a little reality check, okay?

Reality is, I’m not a Vol. But the Vols are a great team to watch. Neither of my schools had football (undergrad or grad). They were baseball schools.
There’s no need to be offened or upset because I cheer for my team. I’m not sure anyone would appologize for cheering for any team, except maybe the Mets.
There was a post up above that made a pretty good observation. “The Braves and their players reflect their manager.” I thought it was rather fitting. With all the awards and good deeds done. For instance, Smoltz was the Roberto Clemente award recipiant last season. It’s a great reflection on the team and the manager. The success of all the players is a great reflection on the team and the manager. And the Braves have had a lot of success.

Just out of curiosity though… The Braves have won 1 WS during the run. Do you also visit the Phillies, Cubs, Pirates, Brewers, Devil Rays, Orioles, Tigers, Royals, Astros, Cardinals, Dodgers, Padres, Rockies, D-Backs, Reds, Indians, Rangers, Nationals and Giants blogs too? None of those teams have won even 1 WS in that time. The Pirates haven’t had a winning season in 14 years! Craziness.

By Kirk Gibson Came to Play

September 23, 2006 02:23 AM | Link to this

Limping out of the clubhouse and up to the plate on two injured legs with two out in the ninth inning of a World Series game to face one of the best closers ever — that’s pretty damn competitive.

Twenty-five years is a long time, Dave. You might want to cut that down some, until gamers like Gibson and Larry Bird don’t qualify. Of course, then you’d still have the problem of Curt Schilling pitching with an ankle tendon stitched to his sock. That’s pretty competitive.

By David O'Brien

September 23, 2006 02:35 AM | Link to this

I’d certainly put Larry Bird into the group, no question. My all-time favorite player, or dead even with M.J. But I wasn’t, at least in my mind, thinking of Bird in past 25 years, though his career obviously extended well into that period.

And again, I didn’t cover him as a reporter.

As for Gibson and Schilling, of course the famous incidents rank as high or higher than anything Smoltz has done (although pitching with a tear in his elbow and resorted to throwing sidearm and throwing knuckleballs to get through the season and postseaon before surgery is right there). But I’m talking about an entire career. And Gibson’s career barely stretched into that period, the bulk of it coming before the past 25 years.

So stop being so damn argumentative. I was making a point (I’m kidding; you’re full entitled to argue, and glad you did. You made a very strong argument in bringing up Larry Legend. He belongs there, no question. And for an entire career, I put him at the top with M.J. The very top. I don’t put Schilling in that class, too much self-serving, ain’t-I-great stuff for me. Bird was all about team, always.)

By journalist jimmy smith

September 23, 2006 02:50 AM | Link to this

ok ok i’m Rosalynn.

By CC Rider

September 23, 2006 03:00 AM | Link to this

Bird Dawg, Just asking when was the last National Championship The Dawgs won. GA Tech won one in 1990!

By Drummerdad

September 23, 2006 03:02 AM | Link to this

DOB. you go boy!! I thought that was one of your better columns in a while and I generally enjoy your reports.
ANDRUW: My sons and I say he’s automatic in the field. (and they called Larry Bowa the vaccum cleaner?) However he’s a 50/50 proposition at the plate at best. HE WILL HAVE A REALLY GOOD YEAR IN ‘07. He’ll be tuning up for the payday promotion. I believe he wants to be a Brave, but I doubt the economics will allow. Stuff I’m reading elsewhere says that the RedSox want him badly. I don’t see how we can keep him unless Schuerholz can negotiate with him and his dad again and leave Boras out of it.

CHIPPER: I think DOB pegged it on the head. If he can find somebody to work with him and be consistent about it, he might get 2 more good years out. But I’ve been thinking since the beginning of this season that it’s time for the Braves to start thinking of doing something else.
In San Francisco on the first road trip he turned an ankle over on a bad field in conditions they shouldn’t have been playing in. The rest of these injuries are his body breaking down. And for a BLUE CHIP athlete like Chipper, that’s very hard to work around. HUDSON: go figure. We would have gotten the same results or better had we just hung onto Paul Byrd. SCHUERHOLZ: I think the recent signings of Wickman and Smoltz are his way of saying he’s sorry for not doing what needed to be done last winter. He went to the well one too many times on schlepping together a bullpen. Reitsma had never shown us that he had the stuff to be a closer. His explanations began to sound Kolbian. HEY TRY THIS: (I may be crazy, but what else is a blog for?) Trade Hudson and Giles and then go hard after Alfonsio Soriano. Put him at 2nd base and let Bobby come up with a nickname for him when he’s at the plate.
Then trade Baez for a back up for Chipper at 3rd.

I’m out.

By Drummerdad

September 23, 2006 03:02 AM | Link to this

DOB. you go boy!! I thought that was one of your better columns in a while and I generally enjoy your reports.
ANDRUW: My sons and I say he’s automatic in the field. (and they called Larry Bowa the vaccum cleaner?) However he’s a 50/50 proposition at the plate at best. HE WILL HAVE A REALLY GOOD YEAR IN ‘07. He’ll be tuning up for the payday promotion. I believe he wants to be a Brave, but I doubt the economics will allow. Stuff I’m reading elsewhere says that the RedSox want him badly. I don’t see how we can keep him unless Schuerholz can negotiate with him and his dad again and leave Boras out of it.

CHIPPER: I think DOB pegged it on the head. If he can find somebody to work with him and be consistent about it, he might get 2 more good years out. But I’ve been thinking since the beginning of this season that it’s time for the Braves to start thinking of doing something else.
In San Francisco on the first road trip he turned an ankle over on a bad field in conditions they shouldn’t have been playing in. The rest of these injuries are his body breaking down. And for a BLUE CHIP athlete like Chipper, that’s very hard to work around. HUDSON: go figure. We would have gotten the same results or better had we just hung onto Paul Byrd. SCHUERHOLZ: I think the recent signings of Wickman and Smoltz are his way of saying he’s sorry for not doing what needed to be done last winter. He went to the well one too many times on schlepping together a bullpen. Reitsma had never shown us that he had the stuff to be a closer. His explanations began to sound Kolbian. HEY TRY THIS: (I may be crazy, but what else is a blog for?) Trade Hudson and Giles and then go hard after Alfonsio Soriano. Put him at 2nd base and let Bobby come up with a nickname for him when he’s at the plate.
Then trade Baez for a back up for Chipper at 3rd.

I’m out.

By Bob, journalist

September 23, 2006 03:06 AM | Link to this

Lew,

It was mighty brave of Braveheart to call us a bunch of “freak bloogers” and then take flight.

I note that you mention lunatics, quoting the Bard, and me … all in the same paragraph … you artists are all alike … always painting pictures and if you drop your brush, you just pick up a pen.

I do remember Grinch talking about Gerogia Southern … I thought he was referring to “y’all, fixin’, doins, and dawgs” and stuff like that … just bein’ polite so as to make me feel at home.

I long ago forgave his poor judgement in selecting a college team to support … though I was a bit surprised … probably just trying to please the elder Grinch or some pretty girl … but the Grinch is powerfully well educated so I figured all along that the college in Athens wasn’t the school from which had been graduated.

I strongly agree that that speaks well for the Grinch … it’s just that we may disagree on what the “that” actually is … regardless, the Grinch’s is much appreciated in these environs.

I really did like your post … well said!

By Drummerdad

September 23, 2006 03:10 AM | Link to this

sorry. didn’t mean to post twice.

By David O'Brien

September 23, 2006 03:10 AM | Link to this

While Aybar hasn’t exactly set the world on fire since the trade, he has batted .287 with a .341 OBP in 30 games for the Braves, and hit better and with more line-drive power since returning from the broken hand he sustained in his first game after the trade, which he played with for two weeks when he was reduced to little more than slapping at the ball.

Again, no great shakes, and he made another baserunning mistake tonight trying to stretch a double into a triple, but he’s at least giving some reason to believe he can play. He made a couple of nice plays at third base tonight, charging in on balls and throwing home. I don’t know how good he can be, still haven’t see enough of him, and haven’t seen him at second base at all, which leads me to believe he’s probably not a serious option for an every-day job there, at least not next season.

As for Betemit, he obviously hits for power, which Aybar doesn’t. But after an initial burst with the Dodgers, he’s really sunk average-wise and OBP-wise.

After going 5-for-9 with two doubles and a homer in his first two games for the Dodgers after the trade, he’s hit .221 (31-for-140) with four double, seven homers, 18 RBIs and a .287 OBP in his past 45 games.

And after his incredible 10-for-20, two-homer, 10-RBI burst in a four-game stretch for the Braves July 15-18 during their offensive onslaught at San Diego and St. Louis, Betemit has hit .227 (39-for-172) with nine homers, 21 RBIs, 48 strikeouts and a .289 OBP in his past 54 games.

So I think it’s safe to say, it’ll take a while to determine who came out ahead on this trade in the long run. My gut feeling is that neither team’s fortunes are going to be affected much by either player in the long run, but that’s just my opinion.

By TennesseePaul

September 23, 2006 03:34 AM | Link to this

DOB: I appreciate the WillyA vs WillyB comparison. I watched Aybar play last season when the Dodgers brought him up. He was an exciting player. He had his youthful moments, but for the most part I was really impressed with the kid. I don’t know where he fits in the plan, but I’m not disappointed to have him.

By Kirk Gibson Came to Play

September 23, 2006 03:50 AM | Link to this

Actually, Dave, Kirk Gibson’s career ran from 1979-1995, with the prime seasons falling well within your 25-year range. He helped the Tigers to the 1984 World Series title and practically carried the Dodgers to the 1988 world championship. For all of Scheurholz’s boasting that Terry Pendleton is the greatest free-agent acquistion ever, I’d say it’s hard to argue that Gibson doesn’t claim that distinction. Pendleton had more good seasons with the Braves than Gibson had with the Dodgers, but Gibson got the Dodgers to the Promised Land, pretty much sacrificing his health for several years afterward in the process. Except for Willie Stargell in 1979, I’ve never seen a better team leader over the course of a single season.

Brett Favre would be a good candidate for most competitive as well. Although these days you could argue he’s too competitive for his own good.

Ronnie Lott. Pretty competitve dude.

I think we’ve got a good category for EPSN’s “Who’s No. 1?”

By Bob, journalist

September 23, 2006 03:51 AM | Link to this

10 Paul, I’m sure that a lot of folks share the feelings expressed in your 02:02 AM posts … I certainly do.

I still can’t see why some folks get satisfaction from being boorish … keep up the cheering, regardless of who it’s for … beats jeering and besides, it makes some of us feel good every time you do it!

Good night Gracie …

By Kirk Gibson Came to Play

September 23, 2006 04:04 AM | Link to this

Sorry. ESPN.

By Bravo Nam

September 23, 2006 06:06 AM | Link to this

A Tribute to the Man in Black and DOB

Living here in Vietnam for many years has given me the opportunity to take up a passion of mine: writing songs. I’ve written many, got them copyrighted, but then just let them sit in a drawer at home coz, well…I’m in Vietnam…and most of the people here speak Vietnamese…and there ain’t no agents here to impress.

Anyway, rather than feel sorry for myself, there is one song I wrote that I’d like to share with the blog (coz I know some of you appreciate music)- it’s a tribute to Johnny Cash and the man who loves him, DOB- if I had’ve had the opportunity, I would’ve loved to have given it to Mr. Cash to record.

Somebody

Running from a life Where nobody believed in me I ended up in a town With no expectations upon me

With a life going nowhere Three years rolled by A life should have meaning But I no longer cared

It was a day in January When she first approached me She exuded a sincerity That had long ago left me Looking at me with a knowing smile She spoke in a manner to beguile

CHORUS Whatever others believe Don’t be deceived The answer lies in you And what you believe How can you be somebody If you believe you’re nobody

Maybe it was fear, maybe it was pride I simply turned my back, her words I denied But something in her courage told me I was a coward Living this life, devoid of meaning…and disempowered Every night I lay in bed Her words would echo through my head

CHORUS Whatever others believe Don’t be deceived The answer lies in you And what you believe How can you be somebody If you believe you’re nobody

Returning to the place I came from I took the past by the throat, I took it head-on I created a life worth believing Full of conviction and meaning One day I’ll return and thank her For the kindness she showed the lost stranger

CHORUS Thank you sweet lady For revealing my self-pity Giving back my dignity I’m no longer a nobody Cause you made me a somebody (repeat last two lines)

By Bravo Nam

September 23, 2006 06:15 AM | Link to this

DOB Looks like we have the same taste in men, but different taste in chicks ;)

Sean Penn and Edward Norton are two of my favourite current day actors…along with Clive Owens (the guy is awesome) and William Macy. But man, you need your eyes checked in relation to Penelope Cruz. I know there are many who think she’s hot…but her looks are ordinary…and as for her pouty, superficial personality- yuk!

Tyler No great shakes with not resigning Baez. Was always going to happen. JS only brought Baez in for this year- Aybar for this year and the future- as DOB says, it’s going to be a long time before we really know who won on this deal AND in the long term, neither are likely to have a huge impact on either team.

The Braves have really kick started the end of season before the end of season! All perfect so far- resigning BW and JS, and not resigning Baez- great stuff!

By freakin journalist

September 23, 2006 07:07 AM | Link to this

Hem haw hem haw hem haw etc etc etc etc yada yada yada yada yada yada blah blah blah blah blah blah blah etc etc etc drone drone drone on and on and on and on and on me me me me me me me me yada yada yada blah blah blah I I I I I I I I I I I etc etc etc! Thoughts?

By Bob

September 23, 2006 07:10 AM | Link to this

Ben Roethlisberger has an emergency appendectomy on September 3, then plays as the QB in an NFL game on September 18.

Danys Baez has an emergency appendectomy on August 23, and is done for the year.

Am I missing something here?

By ncscoots

September 23, 2006 07:10 AM | Link to this

notes from the blog-edge, staring a beautiful fall weekend in the face…freak bloggers we may be, but we were all strangers to each other once, and are no longer. That’s plus money, IMO…why do players resist coaching, re Andruw and TP? It’s their livelihood, they think they know their game better than anyone else, and finally human nature is what it is…the old joke: player says “My problem is that I hit one-eighth inch too low under a good fastball.” coach: “Great. We’ll just put one-eighth inch lifts in your shoes.”…TPaul, didn’t realize you kept your own stats database. Now I know where to go for any and all esoteric info I need!…a blogger opined that Jimmy Carter was unsuited for the Presidency, but I didn’t see his position on the current imposter. I do believe, however, that if there is one subject that SHOULDN’T be pursued on this blog, it’s politics. Pie, yes, politics, no…Larry Legend competitive? A little. I was at the game in which he lit up Dr. J so bad, and talked so much smack doing it, that Erving actually tried to assault him. With apologies to our distaff bloggers, he made him cry like a little girl. Bird had just a leetle fire, yes…I confess that with the season winding down, so is my blogging spirit, at least a tad. The tech problems, the mustiple-personality thing, no banana-pudding blogs recently, music discussions in absentia, etc. I’m sure it’s just a phase, but…plan to give the yard its last summertime go-over today (no, I don’t own a JD, CLady!), the real indicator that it’s finally football season…blog on, all you “freaks”, I’ll check back in due time!

By dadgum

September 23, 2006 07:24 AM | Link to this

Just gotta believe JS has seen enough of Hudson. At least to the point that he can’t rely on him as a main cog in the rotation. Maybe he has a great yaear in ‘07 but it is time to move on in search of that #2 guy for the rotation. And no…there isn’t anyone on our current staff able to handle that spot without getting out the crystal ball. Too big a risk knowing what we know now. Hudson will remain a Brave of course due to his back-ended contract. Maybe the $8 mil we pay him next year will work in our favor and he will at least be decent so he will have trade value.

Of course we will have to hope somebody like James continues to improve and fit that #3 starter spot full time. Say we have Smoltz at #1 (incumbent) get Dontrelle as #2, James #3, Hudson #4, Hampton #5. Horacio and Hudson may battle it out for a spot though. We’ll see. We are paying Hudson a lot of money to bring up the rear of the staff. Gotta think that Hudson or Horacio may be dealt unless one of them will accept a setup role in the pen if of course we get that #2 starter per above.

Hey Lew, love Tull but not your Dawgs. Go Jackets! Exactly how many National Championships has Georgia won?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 23, 2006 08:15 AM | Link to this

I think we have to cut our losses now with Hudson. While he won’t have a lot of suitors he will have enough. As I’ve said before the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Orioles, and Blue Jays all need starting pitching and can afford his contract. Heck, I can’t believe I’m about to say this, even give the Mets a holla.

Hear me out on this. The Mets are desperate for starters and I think they will even be more so after this postseason. They were willing to trade Milledge to the Padres for Linebrink. Would they be equally as willing to trade him to Atlanta if it meant they got a CY Young caliber pitcher. Any right thinking person would say why take Hudson. But, these “moneyball” teams aren’t right thinking. They are always taking chances. Knowing that Hudson has a lot more good years than bad ones gives them reason to believe he can turn it around. The Braves, on the other hand, don’t have that option becasue they can’t afford his contract. The Mets can.

I know it sounds crazy but don’t forget the Braves traded Millwood to the Phillies for Estrada. A trade that filled both teams’ needs. This trade would do the same. The Mets need a starter (Hudson) and the Braves need a leadoff hitter (Milledge). Not to mention Milledge is the best cheapest option available.

By c

September 23, 2006 08:16 AM | Link to this

I would find Andruw a lot less frustrating if it just appeared that he made any effort whatsoever to keep himself in proper physical condition. How good could he be if he were in top shape?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 23, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

And before the raggin comes, just hear me out. Why would the Mets trade Milledge you may ask? Well, back at the deadline they not only offered him to San Diego but also to Oakland for Zito and the Giants for Schmidt. Zito until recently had struggled as much as Hudson and Schmidt is injury prone. The Mets are desperate for starting pitching and see it as a fair tradeoff.

By Robert

September 23, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this

“The guy has made mistakes but no one wins 15 straight division titles by accident.”

It wasnt an accident

But it wasnt his doing either

He had three HOF starters bing band and bong at the top of the rotation year in year out

I dont HATE Bobby Cox - I dont have any relationship with or personal feelings for him

What I have for Cox is called contempt.

Now about Torre getting credit for “only 9” - wrong - See, outside the Atlanta metro area, folks dont define success by DIVISION TITLES -

Joe Torre’s teams won four World Series in 5 years. To even COMPARE Bobby Cox’s record to this is ludicrous

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 23, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

You’re right, Robert, Torre does have 4 WS titles, but of course that is where the money and payroll comes in. Look, if you have contempt or hate or whatever you call it, it is your right. I and many others here just get tired of hearing the same old song.

By Stinky

September 23, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

So Bravo Nam likes Poco…

By Drummerdad

September 23, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

To Robert(Justice Is The Best): I get your idea on trading Hudson to the Mets, but we’re not in the same position we were in with Milwood. Schuerholz’s back was up against the wall because of the time left on Kevin’s contract if I remember right. There’s not the same urgency. To Kirk Gibson Came to Play: You’re right. This could get into a who’s numero uno offering. So like your Gibson I’ll say Keith Hernandez with the Cardinals and the Mets was bigger. Maybe it was the coke, but he had more impact over time. If it comes down to World Series titles then I suppose it’s a tie.

By Jeff

September 23, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

Yeah, A. Jones is is everything DOB says, but, in the end, he gets the job done—more than done.

C. Jones…stretching, whatever. The guy has spent too much time on the DL the past two seasons. Think the Braves need more than a part time third sacker.

Tim Hundson…what a bust! Look what happened Friday night in Denver. Is he really going to be with the Braves next season? Is there any way to unload him before his salary balloons in 2008?

By Bravo Nam

September 23, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

Stinky Yes, I do like Poco. Not sure if they could’ve sung Somebody, but there you go.

A few bloggers have disagreed with DOB coz they don’t think we need another SP. I disagree too. Coz I think we need two.

Here’s the reasoning: Hudson and HoRam will be gone in trades. That leaves Smoltz, Hampton, James and Davies. Cormier and Villareal are OK, but not reliable enough. Villareal is particularly useful in the bullpen to pitch a number of innings when we need him to. This year showed that 6 SPs wasn’t enough coz of injuries. We’ll have four- we’ll need at least two more. We’re going to need a No. 2 and No. 4.

By The Grinch

September 23, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

Morning, All! Only got a minute. Scoots, hope you at least check in from time to time; you’re one of the only people here with any sense. Which is probably why you’re ducking out! The pie/pudding talk has died down somewhat due to Stinky/NPD harrassing our main pie man every time he opens his mouth. It’s a shame, but who ever said life was fair? So, I pose a question to you: what do you think of English puddings (blood pudding, suet pudding, plum pudding, kidney pudding, Welsh rabbit, etc.)? Very different ideas from ours, and much more integrated into the main course of a meal, for better or for worse. I like most of them pretty well on occasion as a cultural change-of-pace, though I wouldn’t make a habit of any of them in particular. Port and Stilton cheese as an after dinner thing is difficult to surpass as a tradition, however. Especially followed by a good cigar. What say you?
I agree about politics (and would also include religion) as being inapropiate; my comments about Mr. Carter (which followed the serious ones) were tongue-in-cheek and meant to be more of a Tech/UGA thing than anything else. Speaking of which, both Tech and UGA have won six national championships each since they both started playing in 1892 (I’ll look up the years on all of them when I get back if anyone disputes this; most of both were not in the “modern era”). UGA’s most recent was 1980, Tech’s was 1990. Both have owned the other in different stretches of time, both have had ledgendary coaches and players, UGA holds the overall won-loss record. It’s a matter of taste. I just happen to have some, so I’m a Dawgs fan. Woof, woof, woof! :-)

By The Grinch

September 23, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Bravo Nam; good post on the lyrics. While several of us kick off improvised satire here and there, it takes a bold person to hang original and serious stuff of their own out there. BTW, Bob; you’re correct. My education (such as it is) came almost entirely from personal initiative in various libraries with the exception of a few grauduate classes I can count on my toes (I have a full complement). If I had relied on my various institutions for the bulk of it I’d be in sad shape, indeed. Southern is what UGA used to be 20 years ago; a great place to abuse your liver, meet hot chicks, and mucho futbol grande. Plus, they stamp your transcript when you’re done. Neat, huh? Until later today…

By BB FAN

September 23, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Robert,

“He is not the brightest bulb in the box” is the most ignorant thing I have ever read from you. I actually am shocked. Andruw Jones knows 5-7 languages. He gets jumps on balls before they even leave the bat. Those two things lead me to believe he is intelligent. The guy obviously is not stupid. And I have spoken with him a few times in Montreal and he seems intelligent enough to not deserve that statement about him. And he does not dog it out on the field. The guy just makes things look so easy, people think he’s dogging it.

Kentavo

Andruw Jones has hit better in the clutch (RISP) this season. And he has always been better in close and late innings. This link will give those stats.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5681&type=batting3

And since the all-star break this year, he has almost as many walks (38) as strikeouts (48). So he is continuosly improving. And he likely will get better.

I’m sorry but his defense alone is worth keeping him and his “paltry” 40 HRs and 120 RBIs over a Carlos Lee who can’t catch a cold in the outfield. Andruw Jones puts up great numbers but then add in his unbelievable defense and you have a Hall of Famer. Andruw Jones does more for the centerfield position than what Ozzie Smith did for shortstop. Ozzie was awesome defensively and he developed into a very productive hitter. However, Andruw Jones has 338 career homeruns with 1014 RBIs and won’t turn 30 until next season.

Now, I’m not saying Andruw Jones is worth $18 Million of the Braves $80 million payroll. But I think he will take less to stay with the Braves. I think Chipper restructuring and taking 11 million will help Andruw realize that the extra 4-6 million is not worth losing happiness and comfort. The Braves should not trade Andruw Jones. He is the best centerfielder in baseball. Worst case, they lose him in free agency, and they gain $13.5 million to sign a few free agents.

Some of you fans don’t realize that you have been witnessing the greatest defensive centerfielder in baseball for 10 years. Oh, and he can hit a little too.

By David O'Brien

September 23, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

Bravo Nam, nice lyrics, senor. I like it. Trying to place it with some good instrumentation and melody in my mind….

Penelope Cruz … NORMAL! Dude, you’ve been in Vietnam waaay too long, is all I can say. NORMAL??!! No, no. And I don’t much care for her personality (she dated Tom Cruise, for god’s sake). But I’ll forgive that to just stare at her.

Hey, by the way, Sophia Loren turned 72 the other day _ and she’s STILL gorgeous. Don’t know that that has anything to do with anything, but just though I’d throw it out there.

It’s chillier today, about 42 degrees at wakeup. Gonna be in low 40s during game, but so far rain looks like it might hold off.

The Georgia-Colorado game is on here starting at 10:30 a.m. That just ain’t right. Of course, if I were in Hawaii, where I’d prefer to be right now, it’d be, what, 5:30 a.m. start?

Nam, what time is the Dawgs game on over there?

By Snowball's Chance

September 23, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

Peter Sellers said it all in “Being There”—I like to watch.

By David O'Brien

September 23, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

BB Fan, I’ll second your thoughts on Andruw’s intelligence. Anyone who’s talked to him at any length comes away with same conclusion _ the guy is very bright, and knows EXACTLY what’s going on in ways that other players are oblivious to.

You’d be amazed by how much he sees from his position, not just because he has freakishly good vision and depth perception (the doctor who tested him in spring training was amazed by his off-the-charts results on vision and depth-perception tests), but also because of his intuition and attention to details.

Outside of baseball, he’s just a very smart guy, without benefit of college education. You noted the languages he speaks (I know it’s at least 3-4, don’t know about 5-7, though it might be because of the slightly different dialects, etc).

But there are other ways, too, that you can tell he’s different. He notices everything, down to your mood and the clothes you’re wearing. Not that that particular trait makes him smart; just trying to convey that he’s sharp in a lot of ways.

By David O'Brien

September 23, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Having said all those glowing things about him, I should add that it only makes his reluctance and/or refusal to grasp and stick to the concepts that Pendleton’s tried to instill, that much more frustrating. I talked to T.P. and Andruw yesterday for a story I’m doing early next week on Andruw and his future.

One thing I’ll tell you now from that interview with Andruw, which you might find interesting: He said his big thing this winter will be to drop about 15 pounds, because he knows it’ll help his knees and back and probably just help his overall play. The rest I’ll save for the story that’s probably running Tuesday.

By MetsFan

September 23, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best) -

My FAVORITE part of this blog is the asinine trade ideas that Braves fans come up with, and I want you to know that you win, hands down, for the stupidest suggestion ever. Yeah, the Mets are going to take the washed-up loser that is Tim Hudson off your hands, and in return give you a rising star like Lastings Milledge. Now, cue Dave O’Brien to come here reminding us how knowledgeable and stats-oriented the posters on this blog are. You know—all that stuff about how the Braves fans are so informed? Oh, my. Robert—thank you, so much, for the best laugh I’ve had in a while. Milledge for Hudson. Ha. That is a good one.

Robert, no one—and especially not the Mets—is going to come and save you from this sinking ship of a roster your GM has assembled. Next idea, please.

By Long Time Observer

September 23, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

I find it a bit suspect that when journalist jimmy smith is present in these blogs then usually so is Stinky/ SDA/ NPD/ Rosalynn/ Nocturnal Emission/ LeTwan Anthony/ Lew/ Grinch/ and host of other characters—then when jimmy is absent, so are they—something fishy here. So come on pie boy give your fans what they want. You’re the best thing DOB could possibly hope for on his blog—one person making it look like his blog is busy.

By David O'Brien

September 23, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

MetsFan, I agree wholeheartedly with you and thought the same thing when I read that trade proposal. Even if the Braves and Mets weren’t division rivals, even if they played in separate leagues, even if they played on separate planets, that would be about the most ridiculous trade proposal (from Mets perspective) to come down the pike in quite some time.

The Braves would be lucky to get anything decent for Hudson right now if they were somehow able to find a team willing to take his entire contract off their hands. No team would both assume that contract and give them a top young player in return. No team, much less a division rival.

Apparently, you haven’t read my rip some of the ridiculous trade proposals made here. I just let most of them slide because people are enjoying themselves and it’s not my job to respond to every post. Besides, no harm, no foul.

But yes, that was a particularly illogical trade proposal.

Long Time Observer, why do you care how busy the blog is? I’m at a loss to figure out why you and a couple others continually point out, like you’re some sort of ombudsman, why this blog is so much busier than the others. You apparently care more than I do. I just like doing it, and a lot of other people apparently like taking part. Including you.

So if you want to keep the traffic down, for some reason, then stay off it and remain an observer only. I couldn’t care less. But thanks for your analysis of blog traffic patterns. It means a lot … to someone … I think … maybe?

No, actually it doesn’t.

By Robert

September 23, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

“He is not the brightest bulb in the box” is the most ignorant thing I have ever read from you. I actually am shocked. Andruw Jones knows 5-7 languages. He gets jumps on balls before they even leave the bat”

He is so smart that he gets the same jump on striking out flailing on the low outside sinker/slider that he has for ten years

I didnt say he was STUPID. But a talent for languages and baseball instinct doesnt automatically equate with high intelligence

Dude, Andru is the same ballplayer he was 10 years ago, less a step and a half. He has never shown the ability to adjust in the bigs.

That he can hit .260 with 30 dingers and 90-100 rbi year after year withOUT adjusting is testament to his awesome natural ability

By Robert

September 23, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

“You’re right, Robert, Torre does have 4 WS titles, but of course that is where the money and payroll comes in. Look, if you have contempt or hate or whatever you call it, it is your right. I and many others here just get tired of hearing the same old song”

On the other hand, I find it kind of silly yo keep asking “Will keeping/releasing/trading Player X/Y/Z help the Braves win” — because it misses the point

No move the Braves make will help them win a WS, save one - until that move is made, they could load the roster with the Yankees roster and then another 14 superstars and they wouldnt win

So, the one thing holding the Braves back should be the ONLY point of discussion until the problem is solved

Fire Cox

By Jim

September 23, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

If we can trade Hudson for a pitching prospect or a decent # 4 type starter, that would be a plus, but even if we just unload him as a salary dump we should do it. I would much rather have Pick 2 (HoRam, Davies, Cormier) as the last two starters next year rather than “100 pitches in 5 innings Hudson!”. Gotigers has pointed out all of the reasons why we should keep Giles, and If Andrew is lighter and contract-motivated, he should have a huge year next year. The Red Sox may want him, but they don’t have anybody we need to give us back in return.

If we get rid of Hudson’s salary next year, then a raise for Giles and a big contract for Andruw can be factored into the payroll by getting rid of Hudson’s salary now, and the expiration of Chipper’s, Hampton’s, and Smoltz’s contracts during the period of Andruw’s next contract — before the salaries of McCann, Francouer, et. al. become large.

Bob, Not only did Ben R. return within 2 weeks of an apendectomy this year, but Eddie Matthews was out only a week in the 1950’s after an appendectomy. Presumably today’s surgical techniques are less invasive than they were 50 years ago. There was also a swimmer who swam in the 1956 Olympic trials 3 days after an appendectomy and made the relay team.

DOB is it possible that we can offer Baez arbitration, knowing he’s not going to take it, and get a draft pick for him?

By Bravo Nam

September 23, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

DOB Glad you like the lyrics…unfortunately all the lines in each verse ran together, which made deciphering the gist of the song a bit difficult.

I’ll give you props on Penelope…that your attraction is not her personality. Ain’t that the truth for so many gorgeous chicks…good looks, but sucky personality.

But, I still think Penelope is less than average in looks…the reason…because in fact I have been in Vietnam too long! Invitation to you and any male on this blog who likes beautiful women- this is the only place to be- the women here are gorgeous.

But if we’re going to compare good looking chicks, I’ll take the late Natalie Wood over Loren and Cruz any day!

Right now it’s 12.45am over here- not sure what time that makes the Dawgs game!

MetsFan and DOB I’ll have to stand up for my buddy, Robert, here. Robert (JIB) had his tongue firmly in his cheek when he made that proposal. Just wanted to get a reaction from the Mets fans! Good call Robert. In fact…haven’t heard anything from Metrosexual Man…I think the boy has his tail between his legs because after all his boasting…I think he realises the Mets are cooked!

In relation to Hudson, the Braves don’t need to do anything fancy with him…and especially not get too greedy. I’d almost be giving him away- for a couple of mid-range prospects- if they amount to anything it’ll be a huge bonus- we need to get rid of Hudson before he becomes an even bigger white elephant than he is now!

By Bob, journalist

September 23, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I suppose that poor taste is indeed better than none … the UGA crowd includes many of my friends but most like Pepsi and few of them know the difference between Cutty and Royal Salute or Swisher Sweets and Macanudos.

Years ago, Mr. Gordy tried to introduce good taste to the boys in Athens when he opened a Varsity Jr.

I know some ‘Bama boys who appreciate Royal Salute … and can afford it! They had a good role model … the Bear liked CoCa-Cola and potato chips … that’s good taste, even if Lays are better than Golden Flake.

Wrigley Field … another great throwback!

By Metropolitan Man

September 23, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Good job in signing Smoltz and Wickman. Now in 2007 we might actually have a race. No excuese next year, and injuries counts as excuses.

By Metropolitan Man

September 23, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Good job in signing Smoltz and Wickman. Now in 2007 we might actually have a race. No excuese next year, and injuries counts as excuses.

By Jim

September 23, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

If we can trade Hudson for a pitching prospect or a decent # 4 type starter, that would be a plus, but even if we just unload him as a salary dump we should do it. I would much rather have Pick 2 (HoRam, Davies, Cormier) as the last two starters next year rather than “100 pitches in 5 innings Hudson!”. Gotigers has pointed out all of the reasons why we should keep Giles, and If Andrew is lighter and contract-motivated, he should have a huge year next year. The Red Sox may want him, but they don’t have anybody we need to give us back in return.

If we get rid of Hudson’s salary next year, then a raise for Giles and a big contract for Andruw can be factored into the payroll by getting rid of Hudson’s salary now, and the expiration of Chipper’s, Hampton’s, and Smoltz’s contracts during the period of Andruw’s next contract — before the salaries of McCann, Francouer, et. al. become large.

Bob, Not only did Ben R. return within 2 weeks of an apendectomy this year, but Eddie Matthews was out only a week in the 1950’s after an appendectomy. Presumably today’s surgical techniques are less invasive than they were 50 years ago. There was also a swimmer who swam in the 1956 Olympic trials 3 days after an appendectomy and made the relay team.

DOB is it possible that we can offer Baez arbitration, knowing he’s not going to take it, and get a draft pick for him?

By Metropolitan Man

September 23, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Good job in signing Smoltz and Wickman. Now in 2007 we might actually have a race. No excuese next year, and injuries counts as excuses.

By TennesseePaul

September 23, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Robert: How about we take a vote on it? Sound good? We all vote. Fire/Not Fire. Once the vote is in, it’s settled, and we can move on to a different topic of concern.

My vote: Not Fire.

By Bravo Nam

September 23, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Ahhh yes, I knew we couldn’t keep the Metrosexual Man down for long! In a funny way I kind of missed him…but in a not so funny way I’m now annoyed with myself for even mentioning him in the first place!

By Jim

September 23, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Hudson to the Mets is not all that far-fetched. It would reunite Hudson with Rick Peterson, who may think he can get him back to his Oakland A’s form; and if we can get Maine, or Bannister, or Humber, or Milledge back for him it would be a good return. And if the Mets get the same Hudson we’ve seen the past 2 years, it will weaken their rotation too!

By Bravo Nam

September 23, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Not Fire. Poor old Robert…don’t think he got enough affection from his parents as a kid!

By Bob, journalist

September 23, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Long Time Observer, some observers lack depth perception … contacts did wonders for Matt Diaz, you might give that some consideration.

David O’B pays us well for our participation … with his own … and we appreciate it!

By berigan

September 23, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Kirk Gibson Came to Play, in Kirk’s MVP season his numbers were… 150 games, 25 Homers, 76 RBI’s and a .290 Batting average. He was 31, and only played 100+ games in season twice more!!! And while that hamstring was quite damaged in 1988, in his 9 seasons previous to coming to L.A. he only played in more than 128 games twice. Chipper Jones has played in at least 153 games 8 seasons and they were in a row! And big fat total slacker Andruw is going to play in 150+ games for the 10th season in a row, even with that bad knee that most players would go to the DL on(Andruws never been on the DL)And Smoltz? Like DOB said, pitched with a shot elbow thru the regular season, and the playoffs that year, had 4 operations, and still goes out there every time at 39 like a rookie trying to win a roster position. None of this takes away what Kirk did in the WS mind you, that home run was still the most amazing moment I saw in the playoffs till I saw Boston come back 3-0.

By Lew

September 23, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

I vote not fire.

By Metropolitan Man

September 23, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Screw Hudson, we want Zito or Smidt. You can have glavine back after he records 300 wins wearing the blue and orange and his arm is about to fall off. Thank you roger Mcdowell for killing the pitching this year. Roger (METS mole) helped us out tremedously without making a pitch or grabbing a bat. Operation infiltration went according to plan. See you celler dwellers in 2007.

By Metropolitan Man

September 23, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Screw Hudson, we want Zito or Smidt. You can have glavine back after he records 300 wins wearing the blue and orange and his arm is about to fall off. Thank you roger Mcdowell for killing the pitching this year. Roger (METS mole) helped us out tremedously without making a pitch or grabbing a bat. Operation infiltration went according to plan. See you celler dwellers in 2007.

By Shaun Payne

September 23, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

Robert,

I’ve probably missed a lot but how would firing Bobby Cox help the Braves? If the Braves had 14 “superstars,” they would probably win the World Series, with or without Bobby Cox.

I don’t think managers make that much difference in a team’s play, but I do think Bobby Cox is one of the better managers in history. He’s won with some great players, but he’s also won with not-so-talented teams. If you take into account pre-season projections, injuries and a team’s true abilities, Cox may have been the manager for overacheiving teams more than anyone in history.

Sure, you have to give Schuerholz, Mazzone, Corrales and others credit, but Cox deserves his share of credit because he was the head honcho.

By Adam

September 23, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

One thing about Hudson is his stuff is still very good. His problem is his inability to get ahead of hitters. The point we always hear is he has too much movement on his pitches and can’t control where they go. To me, that sounds like an excuse for messy mechanics. When Hudson pitches ahead in the count, he can count on his movement and splitter to get guys to either drive the ball in the ground or chase out of the strike zone which is what made him such a good pitcher for the A’s. I think it would be a mistake to unload him. Instead the Braves and Roger McDowell need to have a look a some old tapes of Hudson when he was dominant with the A’s and figure out what has changed.

By Lew

September 23, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Long Time Observer-I guarantee you that Grinch, Jimmy Smith and I are three different people. DOB knows this for a fact,also, as does Journalist Bob and Carolina Lady, who are also three separate individuals. Stinky/NPD/SDA/Nocturnal Emissions are in all likelihood the same person.

By Bob, journalist

September 23, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Truth is, the Jackets and Dawgs have both given us some fantastic moments and memories … and we should all be appreciative of the quality of the education provided by both of the institutions they represent.

I ain’t going to say it often, but we need to send those folks in Colorado a message … go dawgs!

By Just Noticed

September 23, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

LTO, you don’t get it do you? I’m no LTO, I Just Noticed how pathetic you are. You have replaced jimmy smith. You are the new pie boy. This is what you wanted. You harassed everyone with your gutter talk and now you are on your own. Blog with yourself until the string falls out.

If what we are seeing from you is all you’ve got then you’re quite a disappointment from the self-proclaimed professional smart guy that pointed out everyone’s faults. Your game has been to denigrate others and to take the identities of the blog regulars and reduce the enjoyment we have of the blog. Well, your game is over. Like DOB said to you earlier, if you want to keep the traffic down, stay off the blog. I think DOB also said, No one likes you. DOB was right again. Your Friend, Just Noticed.

By Jim

September 23, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Adam, At Hudson’s salary next year he would have to win 18+ games and eat up over 200 innings to be worth the price. There is nothing we have seen over the past 2 years to indicate he will do that. We can’t afford to keep Hudson and Andruw and Giles and Hampton, and of the 4, Hudson is the one that is most expendable.

I hear the announcers giving the same old song about how much Hudson’s stuff moves to rationalize his poor performances, but if he has such great movement, why does he have so few strikeouts? Why does he run up his pitch count by not being able to put hiters away when he gets ahead in the count? Why does he need to nibble and get behind so many hitters? On TV, it seems as if his pitches have good downward movement, but every pitch has the same movement, and most seem to be thrown at the same speed.

By Shaun Payne

September 23, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

Adam,

I have no idea what’s wrong with Hudson, but I suspect he and McDowell and he and other pitching coaches have looked at tapes and made adjustments and have done all kinds of things to try to get back to his Oakland form.

But I think Hudson’s recent struggles have to do with age, injuries, bad luck and the fact that the stats people look at aren’t that reliable.

Looking at his career numbers now, it seems that Hudson wasn’t really a Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez type pitcher like everyone thought (including myself). He’s more of a solid pitcher—a Cy Young contender in his best seasons but “merely” a good pitcher in other years.

The numbers that Hudson can control are pretty consistent: K, BB, HR. The balls in play he gives up are just finding holes this year. In Hudson’s best seasons he’s received the benefit of a lot of good luck, in his worst seasons he’s received the benefit of a lot of good luck.

Looking at the numbers and some advanced stats, it looks like his 2001 or 2004 were the most telling numbers of his true abilities:

2001: 18-9, 3.37 ERA in 235 IP 2004: 12-6, 3.53 ERA in 188.7 IP

By Adam

September 23, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Jim, movement doesn’t create strike outs. Maddux doesn’t strike out a ton of people, but keeps the ball off the sweet part of the bat. We aren’t going to be able to trade Hudson so why not fix him? Hudson’s problem is he gets in too many 2-0 and 3-1 counts where he is forced to pitch to the fat part of the strike zone. That’s what drives his pitch counts up. Strike outs are so overrated. You have the best defensive center fielder in the game, and a solid middle infield, getting ground balls and keeping the ball in the center of the diamond (which is what he did in Oakland) would get him the 18 wins.

By Shaun Payne

September 23, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

Oops…I meant this:

In Hudson’s best seasons he’s received the benefit of a lot of good luck, in his worst seasons he’s received the benefit of bad luck.

By Lew

September 23, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

Jim-There is no monetary reason to NOT keep Hampton, Hudson,Giles and Andruw NEXT year. Hampton (as has been said repeatedly) has been budgeted at $8 mil every year he has been here. They averaged out his salary so they didn’t have to eat such a chunk at the back end. When we say adios, sayonara, goodbye, get lost-whatever-to Sosa, Reitsma, Remlinger, Thomson and Jordan, we will have saved $12.5 million. Smoltz’s option that was just exercised, comes to a savings of an additional $2mil over 06. That is enough to cover Wickman’s new $6.5 mil, Giles arbitration raise, as well as arbitration raises for Horacio and LaRoche. The only reason to trade anyone this offseason, would be for another starter. Hudson only makes $6mil in 07, but goes up to $13.5 in 08.

By Robert

September 23, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

“He’s won with some great players, but he’s also won with not-so-talented teams. If you take into account pre-season projections, injuries and a team’s true abilities, Cox may have been the manager for overacheiving teams more than anyone in history.”

He has FAILED to win, even tho he had great players.

Injuries? His teams had a Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz for like what, 9 out of 11 years where all 3 were able to go all year.

HOF rotation that’s nearly always healthy. Big payroll (used to be huge, now mid pack, but still big) - plenty of offensive stars - best team in the NL EASILY 10 years out of 14, never worse than second best - best team in all baseball in arguably 8 seperate seasons

1 for 5 in the WS with these teams - Oh-for the playoffs in the past five years. His decisions cost us the 96 and 99 series and his not having his team mentally prepared cost us in 91. Ask Blue Jays fans about 1985

And this guy has overachieved and is a great manager?

I just dont understand.

The truth is, it’s probably because we dont as a whole appreciate just how good that rotation was

Maddux - Glavine - Smoltz

If Torre had been manager here, one hand couldnt hold all the rings they’d have

By Vents Doooley

September 23, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

I am glad to be here to restore some dignity to this blog. Barbara and I were canning some squash this morning and Barbara said, Vents why don’t you start blogging again with that nice Dave O’Brien? I said, Barbara, you are right - I have much to offer and I am going to offer it on the DOB Blog. So, here is what the ol’ Coach thinks. Fire Bobby Cox and hire a monkey. You have one blogging here now and calling Cox a donkey. Hire him today. Trade a donkey for a monkey. Makes sense to me. Next, invest in a good salve for Chipper. Hire a Hooters girl to rub him with salve every time he plays an entire nine inning game. This will ensure he is in the lineup more frequently. Then, install a new gas grill in the bullpen area. Create a “Cheeseburger for a Save” bonus. Everytime a certain closer earns a save he also earns a delicious cheeseburger. I found in coaching you must find what a player likes and reward him accordingly. Many of my players liked BMW’s. Doh! If anyone from the NCAA is reading this I meant to say Bacon, Mayonnaise, and Watercress Sandwiches. One last thing the Braves might do is read this blog more often for there are many insightful bloggers here who know and understand the game of baseball. Of course, you also have your riff raff but he is going through a crisis now that the smart young journalist is gone. I once told Hurshul almost the same thing, I said, Hurshul, you never will amount to anything until you come up with your own identity and stick with it. That way people can love you or hate you and know who it is they are loving on or hating on or whatever. I am getting confused now and rambling a little and I guess I better go back in the house and turn on the game and see how badly my boys are beating up on that school with the girl buffalo that is in town today.

By Robert

September 23, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

It’s sometimes hard to judge a manager - when their teams are really good or really bad and do as expected

I mean, how great was Phil Jackson? Probly pretty darn good, but MJ and company winning a bunch of rings wasnt unexpected

On the other hand, was Gene Mauch terrible because he couldnt get the 70’s Expos into the playoffs? Not hardly

But when a guy takes teams that arent supposed to be good and makes them winners (a la Whitey Herzog or Jim Leyland) you can tell they are great

And when a guy takes really good teams and falls flat on his face year after year — well, you know

And I repeat, winning a division title isnt proof of greatness. The Braves might win 3491 consecutive Little League World Series but it wouldnt make them a great team

By Lew

September 23, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

One last point on the salary issue-we all talk about how much Chipper, Smoltz, etc make, but how about this? These players are all at or slightly above the minimum-Francoeur, McCann, Langerhans, Diaz, Aybar, B.Pena, T.Pena, Prado, Paronto, Yates, Barry, James and Davies. That’s 13 cheap players. You could also add Devine, Boyer and McBride. The only thing we can’t afford to do is overpay for an overpriced free agent.

By Not all Posts are what they Seem

September 23, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

One must be careful when reading these posts because one might misconstrue the message and/or misidentify the messenger. I do not think Bobby is a donkey or Robert is a monkey. Oh, the confusion!

By jon

September 23, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

Lew, we already said Adios, sayonara, goodbye to Sosa.. Remember. He plays for St. Louis now. And we dont have Remlinger anymore either.

By Del

September 23, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

In my opinion if Braves mgmt is counting on a productive year from Chipper Jones and Tim Hudson in assembling their 2007 plans, then those plans are seriously flawed from the git-go. I have seen NOTHING this year that leads me to believe that Chipper’s DL stints are only going to get longer and more frequent next year, and that for whatever reason Tim Hudson is not going to get over the hump moving from the AL to the NL (or maybe it’s moving from the AL to Atlanta).

In my opinion if mgmt doesn’t address these two issues in their 07 plans, then we can expect to see a repeat of 06 in 07. I think it would be better to have a 3rd baseman who could field better than Chipper, but not hit as good as Chipper but could play the full schedule, thereby providing a stable batting order where everyone knew his job from one day to the next, instead of having to juggle it like we have had to do this year.

Regards Tim Hudson our alternatives are rather limited. If we are going to continue to use him as a starter who produces 50% of the time, I’d rather see a rookie in his place getting his rookie year learning curve behind him. I really think the best thing to do is shop him for the best bullpen help he will bring in a trade, and give his starter’s job to Villarreal or to Cormier. I think trying him in a set-up role or some other capacity is only delaying the obvious.

My opinion for what’s its worth!!

By jon

September 23, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

Lew, we already said Adios, sayonara, goodbye to Sosa.. Remember. He plays for St. Louis now. And we dont have Remlinger anymore either.

By jon

September 23, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Lew, we already said Adios, sayonara, goodbye to Sosa.. Remember. He plays for St. Louis now. And we dont have Remlinger anymore either.

By jViEmNmTyS DOsOmOiLtEhY

September 23, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

Damn!…jViEmNmTyS DOsOmOiLtEhY is showing up everywhere!…

By Shaun Payne

September 23, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Robert,

There a certain things that can increase a team’s chances for post-season success, and I will agree that the Braves deserves some criticism for not getting the pieces that would have increased their chances for post-season success in certain years. But the post-season is not really a great indicator of a team’s true overall ability. Just because Cox has won only one World Series title, doesn’t mean he’s not a great manager.

So, Cox has never really failed with great players and not-so-great players.

And he won several years with injuries to plenty of key players. Look at 1999, when they lost Javy Lopez, Galarraga, John Smoltz for a period of time. They won in 2005 without any corner outfielders at the beginning of the season and several key pitching injuries.

I don’t know for sure, but I think plenty of people understand Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz may have made up the best rotation of all-time. But should we discredit Cox because he had great players? Do people discredit Earl Weaver or Tony LaRussa or Joe Torre because he had great players?

I agree that Herzog and Leyland are great managers and deserve a lot of credit, but they also inherited solid teams with solid players. Leyland probably did help bring a “winning attitude” to the Tigers, but he also came in at the perfect time—those great young pitchers were ready for the big leagues.

By TheSouthernJackAss

September 23, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

F******* you too!…

By Bob, journalist

September 23, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

It’s hard to say what the qualities are required of a good manager but it’s easy to see that Bobby Cox has more than his share.

Not many can get their charges to fearlessly ride into the Vally of Death … but, Bobby’s Boys always seem eager to do just that, should the call ever come.

Downplaying the importance of the Manager is like scoffing at the importance of the Conductor of the Philharmonic orchestra … without a good one, those great players would perform like the Braves did in June!

I would hope that someone would use a “4 by 6” to get the attention of our talented donkeys and then work on ways to improve their offensive consistency … but that may be more of a job for those with whom Bobby has himself surrounded. Based on David’s recent post, it looks like Terry’s Tyrin’, but I can’t accept the notion that more teeth can’t be put into those efforts without negatively impacting overall team performance. Maybe that’s why nobody has asked me to coach.

Fire Bobby Cox? Unlike others, methinks that none have more of an impact on team performance than the Manager … and this one been doing a remarkable job of managing young men … and some not so young … for a long time.

Good win for the Dawgs today in Georgia … though I would have attempted the two fieldgoals! Now let’s do the same tonight in Colorado!

By Sigourney Weaver

September 23, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Hi, it’s Sigourney Weaver again … here to talk a little baseball. Brooks Robinson used to play third base for my Uncle Earl Weaver. Earl never talked to Brooks. Brooks would just go out day after day and play Gold Glove third base for Uncle Earl. Brooks once dropped a piano on his toe. Played a double header with a toe swollen bigger than a coconut. Had to take off his shoe and wrap his toe in tobacco leaves but he kept playing. I am not sure why I felt the need to blog about this. By the way, Brooks is in the HOF.

By fastfoodfreak

September 23, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

How ‘bout those dawgs! Almost upended by Colorado.

By Robert

September 23, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

“But should we discredit Cox because he had great players?”

No, we should discredit Cox because he consistantly hasnt had his team ready for the real competition of the post-season, and because he has made dipstick type decisions that have cost the Braves at least 2 World Series championships

You make so much out of a few slight injuries. EVERY team deals with these. When you look at the whole picture, the Braves had a remarkable run of good health, particularly in their dominant starting pitchers.

Cox’s decision to have Wohlers (closer)in the game when it was too early for the closer he shouldnt have been cost the Braves the 96 world series - It gave a great team a chance, which is all they needed

Cox’s decision to leave his starters in too long and not let his bullpen do their job cost the Braves the 99 world series

Had Cox’s team been a little more prepared mentally and fundamentally, maybe Lonnie Smith doesnt get deaked in ‘91

“Not many can get their charges to fearlessly ride into the Vally of Death … but, Bobby’s Boys always seem eager to do just that, should the call ever come.”

Riding into the Valley of Death? So THAT’s where the Braves were in 97 and 98 - I always wondered, because they certainly didnt show up for the playoffs against the Fish or the Padres

WHY do so many say - oh he made some big mistakes for sure, but he’s great

Try this - How many of y’all bemoaned the fact that Cox stuck with Reitsma for too long at midseason

For those who did, how many times too many was it? How many games did that cost us?

Now look at the standings again

It’s quite arguable that the big donkey cost the Braves a playoff spot by sticking with Reitsma - a mistake most here would agree he made

But y’all will still give him a pass. Nothing is ever Bobby’s fault, even if he did it

Hopeless

By David O'Brien

September 23, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Jim, yes on that Baez arbitration question. Can get a draft pick, but they’d have to be certain he wouldn’t take arbitration, because his salary would be way higher than they’d want to pay if he were to accept it. Probably not worth the risk.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 23, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

I’m glad I could be such a source of laughter for some on this blog. I was simply thinking out loud. I still don’t think that trade was so stupid. They were going to trade Milledge to San Diego for Linebrink who as good as he is isn’t worth that. So, I don’t think its that ridiculous.

In any event the proposal of trading Hudson has to be explored.

MetsFan, I think you have bigger fish to fry than ridiculing me. If I were you, I would wonder how that AARP rotation is going to do in the NLDS.

By Sal Hepatica

September 23, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

RobertJITB, you don’t know me (wink, wink) but you and I have been blogging together for awhile and we often agree on baseball matters. Isn’t it annoying when one or two bloggers come on here with more names than Carter has liver pills and then attack and ridicule others? Makes you want to go eat some sweet potatoe pie and drink some cold milk to get over it. Well, “They won’t have Sal Hepatica to kick around anymore. Because, gentlemen, this is my last post.” wink,wink

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 23, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Sal.

I just have these ideas pop into my head. The Milledge trade might be seem ridiculous but if the Dodgers are willing to pay Rafeal Furcal $13 mil, then anything is possible.

By Lew

September 23, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

Jon-I KNOW they are gone. My point was we will have their salary in 07. Read the whole post.

By TennesseePaul

September 23, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

I have seen NOTHING this year that leads me to believe that Chipper’s DL stints are only going to get longer and more frequent next year

I agree. I’ve seen nothing this year either that would suggest he will only get worse. Last season and in seasons past, Hudson had the oblique strains. He got past that, so it’s possible Chipper can. The ankle twisting would have happened to anyone in that situation. I have faith in the guy that he’ll figure out what he needs to do to stay healthy the whole season. He obviously still knows how to hit like a champion. The Braves need to shore up the pitching staff this offseason. Do that, and their chances improve.

By Bob, journalist

September 23, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

Robert, most of us take exception to decisions made by managers, especially those which don’t work out as well as expected. I imagine that there are a multitude of opinions regarding the strengths and weaknesses of each and every manager who ever lived … and few are totally pro or con, at least not the rational ones of the informed.

We generally agree that folks have a right to their opinions … and so they do … but folks do themselves a disservice and lessen the respect their own opinions receive from others when they themselves are insensitive to the feelings of their fellows and proffer their own opinions as being superior, in such a way as to unnecessairly antagonize.

Every Blogger’s management abilities are subject to evaluation, each time they post. Methinks that how often our objectives are realized and how often folks are positively motivated by our posts are good measures of the effectivness of our management style.

One obvious point is those who resort to personal attacks and those who are critical of their audience are generally poor, inept managers, just as those who resort to the use of four letter words generally so do because of limited vocabularies.

I doubt that there are many of us who are ajudged to be as successful as our Mr. Cox.

With specific reference to your post abusing the reference to the valiant ride of the 600 … it may have brought some chuckles and served well as a misdirection artifice but that doesn’t take away from the fact that Bobby receives strong allegence from most of his players, at all times and under most circumstances … not a bad managerial quality to have.

Bobby has his weaknesses but, in some areas, he appears to be without equal in what we call the Major Leagues.

I’m posting without proofing because of one heck of a storm and flickering lights!

later …

By David O'Brien

September 23, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

Berigan, solid post at 2:14. Well-researched and fact-based. Strong.

Shaun, you don’t explain why Hudson had more than twice as many strikeouts as walks every season in Oakland, but hasn’t come close in two seaons with Braves. Why are his strikeouts in steady decline if, as you seem to be saying, he’s the same pitcher?

Come on, man. The guy admits himself he’s had two disappointing years. He doesn’t have answers, and no one else does, but at least he acknowledges the results have been mostly bad, and not just because of bad luck.

Robert, agreed on the Mets rotation. It wouldn’t surprise me if they lose the first round, simply because whoever they face is probably going to have a healthier rotation with more guys on top of their game right now, and as we know, good pitching usually beats good hitting. The Mets hitting is great, not good, but so is some of the pitching they’re going to face.

Long Time Observer, something is wrong. The blog seems busy, and I don’t think all screen names belong to two or three individuals. In fact, I can assure you they are not, since we can see the IP addresses on everyone.

But again, thanks for monitoring the blog traffic flow and putting it all in perspective for us. That was important.

By ncscoots

September 23, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

I’ve never weighed in on Robert’s fascination with horse-like creatures, simply because I thought the premise was illogical on the face of it. So I’ll vote “not fire”. Now, as for our “other” Robert’s trade scenarios, who cares about whether they are logical or not, or to whom they seem plausible or not? I don’t think my friend is sitting there pondering all the ramifications of every possible trade he proposes, nor do most (if not all) of our trade-crazy virtual GMs on the blog. My gosh, if we banned folks from proposing other-worldly trades, we wouldn’t need to worry about blog technical problems, I’ll wager. The number of posts would be halved, at the least! Hey, even DOB proposed getting…well, you know, that guy. Did we scoff at him? Did we bash him unmercifully? Well…OK, a little. So let’s just drum up alittle slack here, awright? BTW, I don’t want any Tech fans getting too excited this year, you have to play my fast and nasty Clemson Tigers before you get any hopes up. Though I love that kid receiver you guys have…he’s fast enought to play for us!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 23, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

DOB, who are some of the guys you think the Braves will target either via trade or free agency for the bullpen, starting rotation, and leadoff spot? Have you heard anything or do you have some inclinations?

By Kirk Gibson Came to Play

September 23, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

It’s called intangibles, Berigan. Anyone who saw Kirk Gibson play in 1988 knows how useless going purely by the numbers can be.

Jackie Robinson’s numbers for any one season would rarely compare with Chipper’s or Andruw’s. But he was a fiercer competitor and a better ballplayer than either of them.

If you didn’t see Gibson play that season, berigan, you get a pass. But if you’re old enough to remember him in 1988, then you weren’t very observant.

Don’t become like Shaun Payne, berigan, a man who can’t see the game before him for the thick forest of stats he’s planted in his way.

By Percy Sledge

September 23, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

When a man loves a woman Can’t keep his mind on nothin’ else He’d trade the world For a good thing he’s found If she is bad, he can’t see it She can do no wrong Turn his back on his best friend If he puts her down

When a man loves a woman Spend his very last dime Trying to hold on to what he needs He’d give up all his comforts And sleep out in the rain If she said that’s the way It ought to be

When a man loves a woman Deep down in his soul She can bring him such misery If she is playing him for a fool He’s the last one to know Loving eyes can never see

Now, baseball … “There are too many potential complications to bunion-removal surgery to make that a viable option for Jones, who is 34 and under contract through 2008 ($11 million each of the next two seasons) with an option for 2009.” -DOB

This blog needs a journalist to dig deeper into this story. In the past, this would have been journalist jimmy smith but the current jimmy smith could only sputter and offer objectionable posts. Will some other journalist please come forward and discuss these potential complications and specify if web toes make any difference? Thank you. Percy Sledge

By Metropolitan Man

September 23, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

I’ll take METS AARP team over your braves AARP anyday. You guys are wishing for a 1st round exit so bad (you guys are used to it) that it will be so much pleasurable when we start the second round. Anyways you guys made some good points about Cox. I do agree you guys would have more rings if you could use him for 162 and then rest his brain. I know you guys are treading water to get to .500, but the METS will make that impossible by Thursday, so say hello to your new daddies and lets hope for a race next year. Oh yeah, love the blogs DOB.

By Metropolitan Man

September 23, 2006 07:37 PM | Link to this

I’ll take METS AARP team over your braves AARP anyday. You guys are wishing for a 1st round exit so bad (you guys are used to it) that it will be so much pleasurable when we start the second round. Anyways you guys made some good points about Cox. I do agree you guys would have more rings if you could use him for 162 and then rest his brain. I know you guys are treading water to get to .500, but the METS will make that impossible by Thursday, so say hello to your new daddies and lets hope for a race next year. Oh yeah, love the blogs DOB.

By BravesfaninColorado

September 23, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this

DOB… Maybe Andruw’s freakishly good vision and depth perception that helps him see the ball from 375ft from home plate is actually hurting him when he is standing in the batters box. Maybe the ball is blurry and he can’t p/u the slider spin when the ball is 60ft away. Next time you get a chance ask him to get a pair of those wild thing glasses from Major League when he is hitting. Everyone on the time would get a good laugh. Bringing the wife and kids to the afternoon game tomorrow. Hope Kid James throws a great game.

By Kirk Gibson Came to Play

September 23, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this

And again, the category is toughest competitors, not best numbers. I was simply pointing out that Smoltz has many more than one equal in terms of competitve fire in the the past quarter-century of sports. This is not meant to detract in any way from Smoltz’s competitve spirit. It’s the Braves-skewed view of reality I’m challenging. And just so long as I don’t dare to mention any of the hated Mets, I figure I’ll get a fair hearing.

By ncscoots

September 23, 2006 07:53 PM | Link to this

MetMan, I don’t know how it works in your part of the world, but, just FYI, it takes more than one whuppin’ to become someone’s daddy down here in the South. Now maybe you’re used to crying like a little girl after a single setback, but, down here, mostly we just man up and take another shot. I know you’re happy about your team’s success and rightly so, but I suggest you get a little perspective, bro.

By Dr. Gerberding

September 23, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

I am happy to weigh in on some of the toe issues brought out in an earlier post.

E-ze-kiel cried, “Dem dry bones!” E-ze-kiel cried, “Dem dry bones!” E-ze-kiel cried, “Dem dry bones!” Oh hear the word of the Doc.

The toe bone con-nectd to the (pause) foot bone The foot bone con-nected to the (pause) leg-bone, The leg bone connected to the (‘) knee bone, The knee bone connected to the (‘) thigh bone, The thigh bone connected to the (‘) back bone, The back bone connected to the (‘) neck bone The neck bone connected to the (‘) head bone Oh hear the word of the Doc!

Dem bones, dem bones gon-na walk a-roun’ Dem bones, dem bones gon-na walk a-roun’ Dem bones, dem bones gonna walk aroun’ Oh hear the word of the Doc

Simply put, if one removes the toe bone the entire body will collapse. DOB is right again.

By Stinky

September 23, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

Kirk Gibson Came to Play, say what you mean or stfu.

By ncscoots

September 23, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

There’s a story (perhaps apocryphal) about Ted Williams coaching at a spring training camp years ago, in which he was telling hitters to watch the bat meet the ball and see how many seams they got on the sweet spot. Naturally, they gave him that look, as in , WTF? So Ted, even at an advanced (for baseball) age, had some eyeblack smeared on some balls, took batting paractice, and proceeded to tell the onlookers how many seams he hit on each pitch. Each ball was checked, and Ted was right on every one. THAT guy had good eyes. If Andruw has the same type of freakish visual acuity, why the heck is he hitting .260, LOL? I’ve always believed in “see the ball, hit the ball”, but…

By R.E.H.

September 23, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

Jones is the most overrated professional athlete in professional sports, kind of like Notre Dame and FSU in football.

By Bob, journalist

September 23, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this

Scoots, give the poor boy a break … he’s taken not just one whuppin’ but ‘bout 17 as best I can figure … first Division win since 1988, 12 years back into the last century and they weren’t leading in’94 … probably affected his brain … of course, the reference to new daddies might just be a freudian thing reflecting his own identity crisis, ‘cause we’re the only daddies he’s ever known.

By Stinky

September 23, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

Snap. Journalist Bob with attitude. Was that really him?

By Rosalynn

September 23, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Jimma and I were talking about poor Chippa’s soah toes and Jimma said something that I want to share with you. Jimma said, “everyone knows that soah toes cause the worst woes a ballplayer knows especially if the player is wearing athletic hose which I suppose Chippa knows to wear on his feet and toes.” This was so beautiful that it made me cry. Jimma has also written some lovely books and some poetry and he has a submarine named after him. I noticed that Chippa could not play tonight with his toes being soah but it is good that we are getting to see that nice boy Willy Aybar who has a tremendous upside. Whatever happened to Andy Marte?

By Head Coach

September 23, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

Metropolitan man has a daddy to. His name is Yankee and he will be waiting in the playoffs……….lol

By DOB

September 23, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

I would imagine that IP addresses aren’t the only thing that you can see DOB with all the spyware, adware, malware, and tracking cookies that AJC loads into my computer every time I visit their sites!

By Lew

September 23, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-What Braves AARP team is that. I was pretty sure the Braves has a second or third year player at 4 of the 8 starting positions. Add to that 2 of the 5 starters as second year players and that makes the Braves a young team. I think the average age is 28. Julio Franco alone adds a full year to the average age of the Mets. And Glavine. And Hernandez, etc………And didn’t Pedro acknowledge the Yankees as his Daddy?

By TennesseePaul

September 23, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

WAY TO GO ANDRUW!

Two more to go. Gittum Bravos!

GO BRAVES!!

By David O'Brien

September 23, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

yes, you are correct. and the stuff i see in your case frightens me, and should frighten all decent Americans.

(kidding, kidding … no need to go whining in vain to higher-ups, like a couple of other unnamed weenies here have done.)

By Journalist without his own Identity (stolen by others)

September 23, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this

Lew, a hartebeest has been spotted in this neighborhood! A handsome hartebeest, I might add. He seems to be right at home. Thanks for sending him this way.

By TennesseePaul

September 23, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this

It’s like Davies just doesn’t want to win.

COME ON! Get these guys out!

By TennesseePaul

September 23, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

Alight. Take this guy out. We don’t need the season to end in Colorado.

By Dr. Scholl

September 23, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

“Half the fun of having feet is Red Goose Shoes. For healthy toes and healthy feet, Red Goose Shoes.” A pair or Red Goose high-tops at third base next year. Don’t say I didn’t tell ‘ya.

By Goat Horns

September 23, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

Kyle needs to be shut down for the year.

He is far and away the most ineffective pitcher on the staf right now.

He has really been getting hammered since coming back. I wonder how it will affect his mental state for next year.

By Don

September 23, 2006 09:09 PM | Link to this

Davies needs a permanent visit to “A” ball. He belongs lost in the minors somewhere deep in Mississippi. He and Hudson are enough to break any remaining will of this team.

By Metropolitan Man

September 23, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this

With Chumper, hampton, ramirez, jordan and the rest of the down low disable list buddies, your AARP braves premeium should be really low. Just dont shed a tear when the WS is over and the METS are the last team standing. Its gonna happen with or without Pedro. Hell, we can even pull it off without Glavine. Just give me 5 innings of 3 run ball and watch our bullpen shut them down and our offense do what it does best.

By Metropolitan Man

September 23, 2006 09:11 PM | Link to this

With Chumper, hampton, ramirez, jordan and the rest of the down low disable list buddies, your AARP braves premeium should be really low. Just dont shed a tear when the WS is over and the METS are the last team standing. Its gonna happen with or without Pedro. Hell, we can even pull it off without Glavine. Just give me 5 innings of 3 run ball and watch our bullpen shut them down and our offense do what it does best.

By TennesseePaul

September 23, 2006 09:11 PM | Link to this

Why is he still in there? Why? Take him out!

Do the Braves know of a good draft pick next year? Are they shooting for a higher spot in the order?

By MEB

September 23, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

Robert… I always thought if that dang Bobby Cox stressed fundamentals more then Lonnie Smith (a 14 year veteran of the major leagues at the time) would have never been deceived by Twins second baseman Chuck Knoblauch. That sneaky Twin who made it appear that he was going to take the throw from the outfield. Because of this deke Smith only reached third base and was left on base by Twins pitcher Jack Morris. The Twins went on to win 1-0 in ten innings to clinch Minnesota’s second world championship. Dang that Bobby Cox!

This bizarre statement, along with the rest of the boorish stuff you spew, is getting old. Give the Twins credit for a great play and please get off Bobby’s back.

By Stinky

September 23, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

Jimmy no more hartebeest babble, it’s annoying and getting old

By TennesseePaul

September 23, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

Let’s do this Bravos! It’s Colorado and its only the top of the fourth.

By Goat Horns

September 23, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness they sacrificed a couple of times.

Without the sacrifices Kyle was able to get 5 outs while giving up 12 hits. WOW!

The most meaningful sign to me was the look of dispair on Andruws face when he picked up the 2-run single off of the bat of the .104 batting pitcher.

I believe the guys really want to get to .500 for the season.

They won’t get there with Davies or Hudson in the rotation.

Oscar gives us a better chance to win!

By Don

September 23, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

DOB - Are the Braves really believing Davies will be in the starting rotation next year? How could they? He was awful before the injury and is is awful after the injury. Also, where do you think the Barves will mostly likely fill the holes, in free agency, trades, or minors?

By Don

September 23, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

From the “has anyone else noticed” department:

I like what Renteria has done for the most part this year, but he has been noticably absent at the plate for over a month now. He once was a .320 hitter and is now less than .290.

By TennesseePaul

September 23, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

Come ON BRAVES! Lets Gittum!

By Carolyn

September 23, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

The way I can tell if a person knows a lot or a little about baseball is this: If they say what a bad manager Bobby Cox is or talk about trading Andruw Jones, I immediately know that they have no idea about managing a team or playing the game. And that also goes for the so-called sports columnists of the AJC.

By MEB

September 23, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

I feel bad for Ken “Death” Ray. His was a fascinating story of grit and determination to make the major leagues. I hope he finds it again over the off season.

By Therapist

September 23, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

Nobody to talk to, nobody to listen … what must it be like? You interfere with others and are useless. Stinky, SDA, whatever … nobody seems to care much what you think. Nobody likes you. Pull that string and see what happens.

By Vents Doooley

September 23, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this

Well, Barabara called me in from the garden just in time to see that last touchdown with only seconds to play. We finally sent those buffaloes packing. I’ve been watching the Braves and you know, lsitening to you know, Ron Gant. Here’s what the Ol’ Coach thinks: Death Ray seems to have lost his ability to vaporize. We had a Ray on campus that was much the same way. Playing Pratt seems to help the fielders some. Always a high scoring game when he’s back there. Not sure if we ever had a Pratt on the team in Athens. I do recall Jack Spratt who ate no fat. Guess the Braves have Todd Pratt who carries no bat. I am concerned for Chipper’s toes. We once had a Big Toe from Cairo and I shudder to think if he had been the sore second toe from Cairo. Never would have gotten him into a game. What? What’s that Barbara? Sorry, bloggers I have to go.

By nathan

September 23, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this

DOB, more often than not you are correct. The old saying goes: Good pitching usually trumps goot hitting.

Of course if you are the Atlanta Braves in the 1990’s NOBODY had better pitching in general, and we still found a way to lose about as many games as we won!

I’ll still take the pitching over hitting anyday. But it ALSO takes CLUTCH hitting. That is where the Braves have failed in the playoffs recently, IMO.

PS: If JS even THINKS about offering arbitration to Baez, I’m seriously gonna freak out on somebody.

That’s all. I’m out!

By nathan

September 23, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this

DOB, more often than not you are correct. The old saying goes: Good pitching usually trumps goot hitting.

Of course if you are the Atlanta Braves in the 1990’s NOBODY had better pitching in general, and we still found a way to lose about as many games as we won!

I’ll still take the pitching over hitting anyday. But it ALSO takes CLUTCH hitting. That is where the Braves have failed in the playoffs recently, IMO.

PS: If JS even THINKS about offering arbitration to Baez, I’m seriously gonna freak out on somebody.

That’s all. I’m out!

By nathan

September 24, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this

Not sure why “Pete and Repeat” posted my message, twice. LOL!

Obviously when I said the Braves won about as many as the lost (or the other way around….whatever), I was talking about Playoffs. They won considerably more games than they lost in the 162 game grind that they dominated for the 90’s.

But I guess anybody that knows Braves baseball, or how I think (attempt to think), already knew what I meant.

BTW: Now THAT’S the Coors Field baseball I remember!

Side note, maybe somebody shot take Ol’ Yeller (Kyle Davies) out behind the wood shed. Cuz I done think he’s, come down with rabies. That’s about the only explanation for his pitching. He hasn’t been “rooming” with Hudson on the road, has he DOB?

Now I’m out! Good Night All.

By Lew

September 24, 2006 12:22 AM | Link to this

Stinky-You may not realize it, but Jimmy did see the hartebeest today. That was indeed, The Real Jimmy Smith.

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 12:26 AM | Link to this

How bad was Kyle tonight?

Andruw goes 4-for-4 with two homers and three RBIs, Todd Pratt _ TODD PRATT _ has three hits and two doubles, and four relievers hold the Rockies to one run and one hit (oh, and FIVE Ken Ray walks) over the last six innings … AND THE BRAVES STILL LOSE.

That’s how bad Kyle was.

Here’s a few stats from my game story (oh, and by the way, anyone still want to argue with me that the Braves don’t need another proven, reliable starter for next season?):

He is 1-4 with an 11.97 ERA and .432 opponents’ average in his past eight starts _ three before the groin injury that required surgery and 3-1/2 months on the disabled list.

He’s allowed 85 hits and 14 homers in 60 innings this season.

He has a 13.50 ERA in five starts since returning from the DL, lasting fewer than three innings in three of those. He’s given up 36 hits and 26 earned runs in 17-1/3 innings since he got back, and the Rockies went 12-for-16 against him to raise his opponents’ average to .332 for the season.

After going 2-1 with an 0.77 ERA in his first four starts last season, he’s 8-11 with a 7.31 ERA in his past 30 games (23 starts). He’s surrendered 161 hits and 22 homers in 124-1/3 innings in that stretch, with 65 walks and 91 strikeouts.

Please pass the smelling salts. And a shot of tequila.

By nathan

September 24, 2006 12:29 AM | Link to this

carolyn

Anybody who can’t understand WHY the Braves might NEED to trade Andruw, still lives in the fantasy land of the 1970’s and before, when players spent their entire career with one team.

I’m not saying that it is a MUST for JS to trade Andruw. I’m just saying, IMO, they would have a better TEAM if they traded him and used the money that was “ear-marked” for Andruw on PITCHING, PITCHING, AND MORE PITCHING.

Offense was not, is not and will not be our problem next year. And don’t give me the Andruw gold glove save a billion runs a year routine. Francoeur or Langerhans could play an admirable CF if neccessary. 29 other teams DON’T have Andruw in CF and they get by just fine. Yes he’s good, yes he USED to be OUTSTANDING, yes, IMO, he’s lost a step in CF. But don’t insult the ex-Braves (and Smoltz) that from 1997 on ANDRUW was the sole reason those guys put up good numbers on the mound. They all won before Andruw got here, the continued to win with him here, and Maddux and Glavine have gone on to win in other cities where he isn’t playing.

By Lew

September 24, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this

Nathan-You may win with Langerhans or Francoeur playing defense in center field, but if you take Andruw’s run production out of the lineup without replacing it somehow (and Langerhans won’t do it), you are not going to win as many games. You better get somebody better than old .264 8HR 36RBI in only 105 games Coco Crisp to replace him.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 12:37 AM | Link to this

Now, who still thinks that Davies can be counted on next season. Do those who scoff now see why DOB, myself, and others believe that another starter has to be sought in the offseason. This has happened to many times this year where the offense scores a boat load of runs but it just isn’t enough.

However, I don’t think any of Davies’ struggles is physical. It is all mental. I realize that there is a big difference between AAA and the majors, but it doesn’t make sense that he was lights out at Richmond and can’t pitch to save his life in Atlanta. It is head that is the problem. Heck, he faced more or less an AAA team tonight and got lit up.

Hey, anyone notice Andruw is heating up. Is he auditioning for the Braves to offer an extension or is he auditioning for a prospective trade, or is he simply having a preamble to the typical walk year, which next year will be for him? In any event, I’m glad to see it. I was getting worried about him.

By nathan

September 24, 2006 12:37 AM | Link to this

DOB (and anybody over 21)

Your comment about tequila got me to thinking.

Here’s a spin on some of the old college drinking games.

Every time Hudson or Davies pitches. Just take a shot of tequila (or alcohol) of choice when the give up a run. The winner of the contest would be anybody who actually makes it past the 4th inning! Even the boldest of drinkers couldn’t keep up with the insanity of that!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 12:40 AM | Link to this

DOB said that Chipper needs a personal trainer and maybe even an Olympic strenght coach during the offseason. I totally agree. I also think Francoeur needs a personal hitting coach. He needs someone who can stress patience and selection. I honestly think he could stand to make the trip to the Arizona Fall League with Salty. Seriously. The kid is a superstar waiting to happen. But, he has to learn how to hit. If David Wright could do it, so could Frenchy………right?

By Tom A. Hawk

September 24, 2006 12:40 AM | Link to this

You put Francoeur in center, you’re gonna miss Andruw real fast. As I’ve already said, the Chop Shop would have to be renamed the Butcher Shop.

You don’t win championships based on most three-base errors allowed.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Andruw has another 2005-type season coming. You don’t want to watch him have it with the Yankees or Dodgers, do you?

By Head Coach

September 24, 2006 12:41 AM | Link to this

Pack it up and go home , its all over with as far as goals are concerned. Bobby wont play the kids and the veterans are not getting it done consistently enough. No Division , No Wildcard , No .500 and an eighty plus loss\losing season. Anybody have any last words before we lay the headstone ? Flowers ? A Prayer for the dear departed ?

By Lew

September 24, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

RJIB-He is Andruw being Andruw. Look at the topic of this blog. He’s just streaky and is now in a hot streak. If it’s all in Davies’ head, get the shrink out. Remember the year Smoltz went 1-11 the first half and then 11-1 the second half after seeing the shrink? I wouldn’t count on the kid in the rotation next year, but don’t give up on him yet. He’s still real young and we’re all totally frustrated with this season and ready to take it out on someone.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this

Amen, Nathan. I totally agree. Francoeur could play center. The only thing that could keep him from winning a gold glove this year are his errors caused by his over aggressiveness. I, also, don’t necessarily want to trade Andruw but if he could bring what the Braves need then I’m all for it. Even if the Braves traded him for just pitching prospects the Braves could use that money that would have gone to Andruw on the likes of Matt Holiday in free agency and put the remainder to pitching.

On the surface would this offense suffer without Andruw? Of course. But, if he is replaced by Holiday or someone of his ilk then that guy along with increased production from McCann, Francoeur, and LaRoche would make up for it. Besides, if this team has better pitching the huge offensive outbursts would not be so necessary. Look at tonight. This team scored NINE runs and lost. It isn’t the first time either. It has happened too many times this year.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 24, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this

*Flores… flores para los Bravos… flores…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 12:57 AM | Link to this

Why can’t people understand that sometimes hard decisions have to be made and fan favorites have to be moved to better the team? You know, like Andruw. If we can keep Andruw and still get what we need, then great. But, I doubt it will happen. Not to mention the chances of Andruw resiging are 50/50 at best and I’m being very optimistic with that prediction. I don’t care about some lame draft picks. Are a 32nd round and 55th round draft pick really good compensation for Andruw? Are you people serious? I have said this and said this and I will say it one more flippin time. JS needs to force Andruw’s hand and ask him what his intentions are. If he really wants to stay a Brave then he needs to work with the team, give a little, and sign an extension this winter. Why in the world would the Braves wait until next offseason to negotitate with him when their chances of signing him will be minimial at best? They did that with Furcal and it blew up in their face. They didn’t think he would get offered that much money but a market for leadoff hitters emerged and Furcal got rich. Now, of course, he could simply been resigned in season for $7 mil or so and all would have been good.

For the overall good of the team in the present and the future the Braves have to know where the guy stands. If he can’t committ to this team, then a trade has to be explored. If no viable deals are offered, then don’t trade him. But, wouldn’t JS owe it to the team and the fans to at least listen. Who knows? Maybe someone will offer something that will help this team get back to and win a WS.

By Joe Z

September 24, 2006 12:57 AM | Link to this

Andruw Jones… a better defensive center fielder than Jim Edmonds? Have all of you Brave’s fans lost your minds? In a straight line… Andruw’s wide load wouldn’t even come close to Edmonds. And his glove? Are you kidding? It’s called “The Catch”. The greatest single catch in the history of the game. Andruw wouldn’t have come close. And he certainly wouldn’t have made the effort to run full speed and make an over the shoulder catch. When the ball was hit… no one in their right mind that any human being could make the catch. Those balls that Edmonds routinely laid out for to make catch after spectacular catch… they were singles if Jones was in center. Don’t go there guys… he’s no Jim Edmonds. As for that cry baby Cox. When the umps stopped giving his pitchers a strike when the ball was 10 inches off the plate… it all fell apart. Too bad it was his own pitchers that said they earned that strike by being in the majors for so long. Bobby… you should have told them to keep their mouths shut. Who says you can’t win by intimidating the umps? You have to admit… an October without seeing him complain about the calls will be refreshing.

By nathan

September 24, 2006 01:04 AM | Link to this

Tom A. Hawk

I wouldn’t mind watching him have a “2005” type season with the Yankees or Dodgers, just so long as I DIDN’T have to watch the likes of Hudson, Davies, Sosa, Thomson, and HoRam pitch on this staff next year.

Besides, remind me again how far Andruw’s 2005 stats carried us in the post-season? Yup. Come to think of it, if Andruw’s bat would have the “same effect” on the Yankees post season chances, I’d LOVE to see him in pinstripes.

I can’t believe you people just don’t get it. The guy, was 4 for 4 toinight and it RAISED his average to .263. YIPPY! Francoeur is hitting .260 with only a dozen less HR’s and barely 20 less RBI. Oh, and last time I checked, he’ll cost about 15 million less next year. ONE OF THOSE TYPE OF HITTERS IS ENOUGH FOR ONE TEAM. Go with the cheaper version and spend the money on pitching.

Listen, I’m not saying Andruw is a bad player. I’m saying that he is WRONG for what this team needs, now and in the future. We need contact, clutch hitters with the occasional power stroke (Brian McCann comes to mind). Give me somebody who hits over .300 and has 20 HR and about 40 doubles anyday of the week over a guy who hits .250 - .270 with 40-50 HR, 120 RBI (which btw he doesn’t produce RBI without actually hitting HR’s). Like I said, to say Andruw is “worthless” would be a ridiculous statement. I just don’t think he fits what we need. The guy is 28 years old, and he STILL doesn’t understand that if he took the ball to right field, he’d not only hit the same ammount of HR’s, he’d have more (his natural power is ridiculous - imagine how Chipper would look if all he tried to do was pull the ball), Hell, even Francoeur takes the ball the other way. He just doesn’t know when NOT to swing. Plus if Andruw took balls the other way and actually hunkered down and hit WELL with RISP, he’d turn those 120 RBI int 150 real quick. And that my friends would not only translate into regular season victories it would mean CLUTCH RBI in the post-season as well.

Here’s a question for you. Who would you rather have at the plate with a POST SEASON game on the line, Andruw Jones or Paul O’neill (actually insert ANY of the Yankees hitter in the late 90’s that NEVER hit more than 35 HR in a season)?

If you’d take Andruw, then you are glutton for “post-season failure” punishment.

Good “hitters” outshine POWER HITTERS bigtime in the post season. Why do you think the combination of Power and Contact amake Pujols a “rare commodity” (to use Chipper’s line)?

Give me 8 Terry Pendelton’s, no wait! Check that. Give me 8 Mark Lemke’s ANY day of the week over 8 Andruw’s in the post season.

Not to drag you into this, but DOB, am I that far off in my assessment of Andruw’s talent, and what the Braves actually NEED to be a good TEAM?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 01:07 AM | Link to this

First of all, Joe Z, DOB was right about the comparison between Edmonds and Andruw. While the catches Edmonds makes are spectacular, Andruw makes those same catches look like cans of corn. That is a fact.

Lew, I agree. I think its time to call the doc that treated Smoltz for Davies. He is a head case and so is Langerhans IMO. He looks lost sometimes. He doesn’t play with the confidence he had last season.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 24, 2006 01:12 AM | Link to this

Yes, Nathan. You’re that far off. And you’re hysterical.

Maybe you should replace Terry Pendleton, Nathan. Who would have thought that this humble blog houses a genius of hitting like you?

By Tom A. Hawk

September 24, 2006 01:16 AM | Link to this

Good “hitters” outshine POWER HITTERS bigtime in the post season.

Tell that to Reggie Jackson. Remind me, Nathan, exactly why did they call Reggie “Mr. October”?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 01:20 AM | Link to this

Preach on, brother Nathan. Preach on. I couldn’t agree more. Its amazing to me how so many people rip on a 22 year old more or less first year player in Francoeur for striking out too much and not knowing how to hit situationally but Andruw who is 29 years old and has been in the majors for 10 years and strikes out just as much as Frenchy not to mention his awful avg w/RISP gets a free pass. Don’t get it. You talk about the runs Andruw saves. What about Francoeur. How many times this year has a runner not tried to take an extra base or come home on a fly ball for fear Francoeur will throw them out?

I’m not lifting up Francoeur to trash Andruw I’m just pointing out facts. It rings with a touch of double standard. If you ream Frenchy, then ream Andruw as well.

As Nathan said, give me the contact hitters. Even look at the Yankees now. Jeter, Abreu, Matsui, Cano, and even A-Rod are all guys who drive a lot more runs in with singles and doubles than they do with homeruns. Those guys know how to hit and will hit the other way. McCann is in their mold. If the Braves had just one or two more McCann’s this offense would be so much more balanced and even more dangerous.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 24, 2006 01:22 AM | Link to this

Heard over the TBS microphone next season. Andruw Jones at bat:

Bobby Cox: “C’mon, AJ!”

Nathan: “Take it to right, Andruw, like I’ve been telling you!”

(Andruw hits another 450-foot bomb to left. Crowd goes nuts.)

Bobby Cox: “Attaboy!”

Nathan: “Damn it, Andruw! Why won’t you take it to right?”

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 01:25 AM | Link to this

Tom A. Hawk, what about Jeter? Even Big Pappi? His big postseason hits mostly included singles. Tell me where did all those Hrs Morgan Ensberg hit last year get the Astros? What about Sheff and Giambi for the said Yankees?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 01:30 AM | Link to this

Tom A. Hawk, tell me. For all those “450 bombs to left” how many strikeouts and weak grounders to SS has been hit as well. Just interested.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 24, 2006 01:31 AM | Link to this

OK, Robert — you got it! Since you’d rather have a hitter like Cano, let’s do it: Andruw Jones for Robinson Cano. Nothing can stop the Braves now!

By Head Coach

September 24, 2006 01:40 AM | Link to this

Little ball , long ball and speed. Thats what it takes to dominate offensively. The Mets have the most balanced offensive attack in the majors and its why they are the N.L. east division winners , not to mention they play defense too.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 01:41 AM | Link to this

So, Tom A. Hawk, I’m going to assume you are one of the few people on here who bash Francoeur, right?

By nathan

September 24, 2006 01:44 AM | Link to this

Tell that to Reggie Jackson. Remind me, Nathan, exactly why did they call Reggie “Mr. October”?

That’s one guy. 1977 I believe, or was it 78’.

I suppose you could throw Beltran in that category. Maybe Pujols. But last time I checked the Cardinals and Giants (Pirates also) haven’t won with the “big sluggers” in today’s game.

Andruw’s two BEST post season hits came in 1996. Yup. His first to WS AB’s against a pitcher (Pettitte) who had never seen him, or probably ignored the scouting report. 11 years later, were still waiting for him to “carry” this team in October. Keep on waiting.

For the record TP was a MUCH better hitter, than he was a hitting coach. As was Magic Johnson a better player than coach. Somtimes people that can “do” great things, can’t always teach others how to do it well. Just like managers. Bobby is obviously a good “teacher” of the game to younger players (I question his loyalty to veterans - but that’s for another day).

How is he able to do this? A career minor leaguer, with limited MLB experience with the Yankees? Some people just know how to “coach”. That doesn’t mean that they are immune to BONE HEAD decisions, from time to time. LOL!

So go Ahead. Play the Reggie Jackson card. I’ll play the:

Billy Hatcher (1990) 9 for FRICKIN 12 in the series. (O HR)

Kirby Puckett (1991)

Kelly Gruber/Roberto Alomar (1992)

Devon White (1993) Yeah, Joe Carter hit THE homerun, but Devo set the tone for the whole series.

1994 (R.I.P.)

Marquis Grissom (1995) Again, Justice hit THE big HR. But grissom hit well over .400

Name a Yankee (1996)

Edgar Renteria (1997)

Name a Yankee (1998)

Name a Yankee (1999)

Name a Yankee (2000)

Craig Council (2001)

I’ll “give” you this one. Troy Glaus “tore it up” in (2002) But Scott Speizio did have 8 RBI

Juan Pierre and Jeff Conine (2003)

Mark Belhorn had as many RBI as Manny and Ortiz (2004)

Jermaine Dye (2005) Note: he only had 1 HR and 3 RBI (he did however have 7 hits and 2 BB)

There you go. I’ve done some research. And that’s just from the 1990 on. So if you want to play the “reggie jackson” (once every blue moon) card again, go ahead. Would you like me to look up the stats from the 70’s and 80’s to go along with my (the correct one, btw) theory.

Thanks for playing.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 01:49 AM | Link to this

Well done, Nathan.

By nathan

September 24, 2006 01:50 AM | Link to this

BTW Robert(Justice Is The Best)

Thank you for the “support” LOL!

I appreciate it. I’m glad somebody “get’s it”. (that I’m not ripping Andruw, just expecting “more”)

By nathan

September 24, 2006 01:57 AM | Link to this

Tom A. Hawk

*Heard over the TBS microphone next season. Andruw Jones at bat:

Bobby Cox: “C’mon, AJ!”

Nathan: “Take it to right, Andruw, like I’ve been telling you!”

(Andruw hits another 450-foot bomb to left. Crowd goes nuts.)

Bobby Cox: “Attaboy!”

Nathan: “Damn it, Andruw! Why won’t you take it to right?”*

You forgot to mention the side note to this story…….The Braves STILL lost 10-9 because the had somebody like Kyle Davies on the mound. Due to the fact that Andruw cost too much money for them to afford “good pitchers”

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 02:01 AM | Link to this

Andruw is hitting .281 with RISP. Now, that isn’t as good as McCann who’s hitting .354, but it’s no secret that McCann is a better hitter. AJ is a better slugger though.

I think everyone is disappointed at the amount of Ks AJ puts up, but as it was pointed out, he’s done it for 10 years. It’s no surprise and it’s obvious that’s just the way it’s going to be. Francoeur, on the other hand, is still young. He can break the habit before it plants deep roots. At least, that’s what I’m hoping.
The Braves Were 64-63 in the playoffs.
I agree, there is a need for another proven veteran. I hope we can pull in somebody.

Nice showing tonight Bravos… except Davies. I’m surprised they made it so close. This team really can score some runs.

If Andruw is signed elsewhere, the Braves recieve two draft picks. This first pick is in between the 1st and 2nd round. The second pick is a 2nd round adjustment.
I don’t think the Braves Have To trade Andruw if he isn’t going to resign. If they want to win next year, and they have him, then play him. They’ll be just fine and they’ll still be able to be competitive in the future. I think if an outstanding, jawdropping trade is put forth, they should listen. I wouldn’t say don’t ever trade ever, but I don’t think they are in a position where it is necessary. But, no matter the case, it’s up to JS. I’ll just have to sit back and watch what happens.

Let’s split this series tomorrow Braves! We can still hit. That was shown tonight. We hit .400 tonight. Not too shaby.

By nathan

September 24, 2006 02:13 AM | Link to this

Tom A. Hawk

Sorry to say, School’s Out.

I’m off to bed. Good Night All. (Robert LOL!)

Type at you all tomorrow.

Lew

I just “saw” you post at 12:36 just now.

I’ll keep it short and simple with you. I agree with you. If Offense is how we plan on winning games. Me and you pretty much see eye to eye with each other - so I know you get where I come from. (And I don’t mean where it’s cold. LOL!) BUT……

Tell me with a straight face that you would rather have Andruw in CF and 2 young (Davies and HoRam) pitchers that may or more than likey WILL NOT be relied on to do ANYTHING positive (staying healthy included). As opposed to Langerhans (or any other serviceable OF (Gregor Blanco in LF and leadoff?) batting 8th (or leadoff if it’s Blanco) and have the money saved on Andruw go towards the Rotation or at the VERY LEAST bullpen help?

Yes, I know that there are ZERO guarantees with free agent pitchers or making trades for supposed Aces. (See Time Hudson)

But I can guarantee you that if we go into next season without upgrading the rotation by any means neccessary (YES, that may mean trading Andruw), that this season will seem like a FANTASY. Wickman was a nice step. But he, like Smoltz will be one year older and they may not be relied on to “hold up” health wise.

Sorry. I said I’d keep it short. LOL

Good Night!

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 02:14 AM | Link to this

Joe Z, if you think Jim Edmonds is or was a better CF than Andruw Jones, you’re delusional. Ask 100 people _ players, managers, reporters, scouts _ who is the better center fielder, and I’d be shocked if 98 or more didn’t pick Andruw.

By nathan

September 24, 2006 02:20 AM | Link to this

You’re still “up” DOB?

What? No “input” on Tom A. Hawk’s and my “p*ssing” contest?

You were out checking out the Denver Nighlife, weren’t you?

Good Night! Once and for ALL!

By Head Coach

September 24, 2006 02:34 AM | Link to this

This is for the Knuckleheaded Idiocracy that continues to espouse the idea of trading Andruw Rudolf Jones , yea his middle name really is Rudolf. This player is hitting .265 with 38 homeruns and 110 RBI , a .361 OBP and .551 SLG…. and when compared to Andruws .263 AVG with 39 homeruns and 123 RBI , a .361 OBP and .532 SLG…… is none other than Carlos Delgado. The Mets wouldnt even consider the idea of trading him , not to mention the fact that he doesnt have a single gold glove much less eight of them. I’ll take the risk of losing RUDOLF in free agency and getting two draft picks for the chance to get into the postseason and compete for another World championship ………..thank you very much.

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 02:43 AM | Link to this

Due to the fact that Andruw cost too much money for them to afford “good pitchers

Wrong. Simply wrong. Davies doesn’t suck because the Braves field a highly potent offense with an exceptional Center fielder. There are others on this team that cost a fortune. What held them back last offseason was the over spending on mediocrity. It’ll be that way again this off season with some team, hopefully not the Braves, shelling out around 14.5 to 15 million a year for Schmidt. We can keep Andruw and fix the pitching. It isn’t hard. And it’s totally within our 80 million dollar payroll.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 24, 2006 04:40 AM | Link to this

Gee, Nathan, it seems you and Robert are the only guys who “get it.” If only Andruw could measure up to the Billy Hatchers and Mark Bellhorns you so admire!

In 1965, Reds’ general manager Bill DeWitt traded the team’s star outfielder to the Baltimore Orioles for pitching. He got Milt Pappas and Jack Baldschun. The Reds’ fans were outraged, and DeWitt defended the deal by saying his outfielder was “an old thirty,” and stressed the Reds’ need for pitching help.

That outfielder was Frank Robinson, who went on to win the Triple Crown and a World Series title with the Orioles in 1966. The Orioles played in three more World Series with Robinson, winning in 1970 over — guess who? — the Reds. Think the Reds regretted that trade?

Robinson’s postseason batting average was under .250, but he did hit 10 postseason home runs and won two world titles. Makes him a little more valuable to his team than Craig Counsell, don’t you think?

You know who you sound a lot like, Nathan? Jack DeWitt. Fortunately for you and the rest of Braves Nation, John Schuerholz ain’t no Jack DeWitt.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 24, 2006 04:50 AM | Link to this

You’re a brilliant researcher, Nathan. You infer that Reggie Jackson was only a force in one World Series? He played in five of them, Nathan, and won four rings. He hit .357 in those five series with 10 home runs, a .457 OBP and a .755 slugging percentage. And Reggie was the quintessential free-swinger.

Pretty clutch, wouldn’t you say?

By Bravo Nam

September 24, 2006 05:52 AM | Link to this

Actually DOB, I disagree with you. The Braves don’t need another SP…coz they need two of them. Those on here who think they don’t need any have rocks in their head…Hudson and HoRam will be traded…that leaves Smoltz, James, Davies and Hampton…we need at least two to cover an injury…but with Smoltz at 40 (and possibility that all the workload he’s had to carry will catch up with him in terms of injury), Hampton coming back from injury, and Davies having greater potential to bomb that become a consistent performer…TWO starting pitchers is the minimum!

By Head Coach

September 24, 2006 06:24 AM | Link to this

One More FREAKING time , I have to say it one more time ! Trading starting pitching is a bad idea. The Braves have used ten starters in 2006 , nine in 2005 and we are going to need every single arm we have right now and try to pick up more via trade or free egency. A leadoff hitter is by far the Braves number one priority and the Padres Dave Roberts and the Cubs Juan Pierre are the best two guys available.

By Bravo Nam

September 24, 2006 06:49 AM | Link to this

In Defence of Bobby Cox

To get to the bigs, make no mistake about it, you have to be a pretty good player. There are plenty of excellent players who are unable to make the leap into MLB. Bottom line: the guys who play are talented. But, as we have seen time and time again throughout the years, lots and lots of talented guys fall apart at the seams or never reach their full potential because while they’ve got the physical attributes and talent to cope at the top, they just don’t have the emotional/psychological make-up to survive.

There are a number of Managers who handle players poorly…we’ve even seen extreme examples this year of managers threatening players or physically jostling with them. Then there are the Managers (most of them) who have their favourites, and ignore the rest OR who can only relate to certain personalities, which ends up creating great friction in the clubhouse. There are also Managers who may get on well with their players, but have poor relationships with their Front Offices, Owner or GM, which we’ve seen so many times, divides teams.

Enter stage door right…Mr. Cox. He is more than a players’ Manager. He is a guy who relates well to the GM, Front Office, Coaches and the “little people”. No Manager matches his all-round ability to quell simmering tensions, broker disagreements, and keep the team and organisation focused. Just one example of many- day in day out he has to deal with the “ego”- JS. Very few people could’ve worked as succesfully with Schuerholz for so long with so few problems as Cox. And what about Smoltz? The longest serving Braves player. Don’t tell me he’s a barrel of laughs to manage. And what about when JS is upsetting players, players are upsetting JS, players are upsetting each other, coaches are upsetting players…who moves in to smooth the waters?

How many Managers have the courage not to call out players publicly- to back them 100%, even when the players have had a sucky performance? No one has a players back better than Cox.

I’m sure there are Managers out there who are better tacticians…but there is NO ONE out there who knows how to manage a team, relate to players, boost their battered confidence and balm their shattered mental states better than Cox.

I don’t know how many people have truly reflected on how difficult it is to win a division for 14 years, over a 162 game season. For goodness sake, it’s virtually impossible to be champion cake baker 14 years running; be a snooker champion 14 years running; have the best BBQ in town 14 years running; win an academy award 14 years running; put up with your wife/husband (LOL) 14 years running; or,have the stamina to get a hard on 14 times in a day…just once a year (OK, we know you can get a hard on 28 times in a day Metrosexual Man…but we all can’t be like you)! So pleeeeeeeeease, give me a break…to do something 14 years running is no accident, mirage or fluke!

New players arriving with the Braves can’t get over the positive atmosphere in the clubhouse or Cox’s uncompromising support for them…many players want to come to Atlanta just to play for him…while others take pay cuts.

Can you imagine how many bad hair days all of us jokers on this blog have had over 14 years…and how many times this caused us to upset people by saying or doing things we later regretted…it takes an awful lot of hard work and dedication to do what Cox has done…and I for one, salute you Mr. Cox.

By Bravo Nam

September 24, 2006 06:57 AM | Link to this

Tribute to Bobby Cox

This is a song I wrote last year, and is my tribute to Bobby Cox- there’s not a Manager in all of baseball more loyal- his players play hard for him coz they know he’s got their back.

You’re no longer riding that road alone

Destined for the eye of the storm

Those days when you can’t go on

I’m the one you can depend upon

Taking this journey together

I’m by your side forever

Takin’ all before us

On these words you can count:

CHORUS
I’m your friend until the very end

Standing tall, we’re not gonna fall

Don’t look back I’ve got your back

Whenever you approach your destination

Do so without reservation

Pretend friends will run away

But this friend is here to stay

Loyalty is who I am

On this I’ll make a stand

Takin’ all before us

On these words you can count:

CHORUS

I’m your friend until the very end

Standing tall, we’re not gonna fall

Don’t look back I’ve got your back

When they try to discredit and pin the blame

I’ll be there to defend your name

Your integrity won’t be denied

Cause I’m on your side

And when we’re old and grey

I’ll still be there to say:

CHORUS

I’m your friend until the very end

Standing tall, we’re not gonna fall

Don’t look back I’ve got your back…

Yes you’ll know Don’t look back

Cause I’ve got your back

By Bravo Nam

September 24, 2006 07:49 AM | Link to this

The truth about why Mutts fans really come onto this blog

For months I’ve been scratching my head trying to work out why Mutts fans keep coming over to this blog. It’s more than just show ponying around, coz let’s face it, the Mutts won the division months ago, and not even pitiful Mutts fans could’ve got much satisfaction from raining on our parade over the past month…when the parade was already flooded!

So, why do these guys/gals keep coming over to the Braves blog? I for one couldn’t think of anything worse (boring, unoriginal, uninspired…choose your adjective) than being a part of a Mutts blog. Much prefer to be chatting and arguing with my Braves brothers and sisters…after all, the Braves is my team!

Then it occurred to me! Mutts fans come over here because they’re closet Braves fans…and we’re a whole lot more fun to hang around! Unlike the 2 homo boys who’ve come out of the closet, these Mutts fans (Metrosexual Boy, NPD, Bird the dawg…) have not yet had the courage to come out of the closet over their true team allegiance.

So, they come over to the Braves blog and spew venom and bile all over us…trying to mask their true allegiance to the Braves. Coz after all, if the true Mutts fans actually knew their true allegiance, they would no longer be welcome on the Mutts blog.

People, you’ve got to appreciate these guys/gals lack self-esteem. They want to be wanted by the Mutts fans…even though they’re Braves fans at heart.

It is up to us to encourage them to come out and show their true colours.

So, to Metrosexual Boy and all your pals, whenever you visit us, we know what you’re saying: you’re true Braves fans and you’re hoping and praying that we’ll see beneath your facades. We have!! Every time you come over to the Braves blog, you affirm us and show us your love- we sympathise coz no one in their right mind could find anything satisfying about the Mutrts blog- welcome to the fold Mutts brothers and sisters!

Head Coach- calm down big fella, you’ll have a coronary- it’s only a game- it’s not as though all our worrying and arguing will change anything anyway.

But, I think you’ve lost the plot- hold on to all of our starting pitching- man, have you gone nuts- have you been following the same season I have- yes, SP is essential, but that does not mean you hold on to bad SP…or sub-standard SP…or inconsistent SP. We need new SPs…better ones than we have now.

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 07:51 AM | Link to this

Morning brave bloggers. Did we have a goodnight sleep or did we twist and turn all night thinking about K. davies and the future. Boy does that homegrown kid stink. You guys should see if he likes hockey because baseball aint his sport. So have you guys finally given up on .500 yet. I hope so becasue every short term/long term goal you guys have had has landed in the toilet. An bravo mam, lew, and all other braves fans, just root for the METS, you will see how easy it is. Come on people, trade your chop in for a ring this year. Oh, where is the Thompson guy?????

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 07:52 AM | Link to this

Morning brave bloggers. Did we have a goodnight sleep or did we twist and turn all night thinking about K. davies and the future. Boy does that homegrown kid stink. You guys should see if he likes hockey because baseball aint his sport. So have you guys finally given up on .500 yet. I hope so becasue every short term/long term goal you guys have had has landed in the toilet. An bravo mam, lew, and all other braves fans, just root for the METS, you will see how easy it is. Come on people, trade your chop in for a ring this year. Oh, where is the Thompson guy?????

By ncscoots

September 24, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this

Robert, have I missed something about Matt Holliday? You have pictured him as a free agent, but the guy only has a couple years in the Show. Think he would only be arbitration-eligble, if that, no? I’ll say this, though, I can see why the Braves made a play for him last offseason (as I understand it, they were trying to get Fuentes for a closer and Matt to play LF, though I can’t remember the source on that. Might have just been a rumor).

By Robert

September 24, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

“I don’t know how many people have truly reflected on how difficult it is to win a division for 14 years, over a 162 game season”

A priori - it’s difficult. Very difficult

Under the particular circumstances where you play in an overall weak division and have three HOF starters who are all healthy for 12 of those 14 years and where at least 2 of them are healthy all season for 14 of 14 years? - Then it is not so difficult at all.

The manager’s job isnt to have the players’ backs. It’s to make them better ball players and to win as much as possible.

Cox achieves neither

For the umpteenth time y’all have defended him by saying he is the kids’ favorite babysitter and because you are amazed that he can win the Little League World Series with a team of adults 8000 times in a row

Cox left Davies in WAY too long last night. Cost us a ballgame that Andru tried his darndest to win

Now, in defense of Cox

(silence)

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this

Wow, that bravo MAM cat is weird. Let me let you in on a little secret, its ok to be a sports fan and blog on multi sports sites you 1 dimensional loser. If this is the only place you voice your cyber opinion about your braves, then you are why real fans pick on you fairweathers. We blog here because it fun to talk baseball wth your teams biggest rivals. I have the same conversatuion with stankee fans, fish fans, and philthy fans all on our NY sites. So just put your hands up and defend your sorry squad and stop crying. Dont try to figure out why I blog, just try to keep up. Try to figure out why your team sucks. Try and figure out if JS is gonna use some of the “Built to Win” money and actually build a team to win (not just division titles). Try to figure out why the METS will sweep you again this week and make you say Uncle since you are our daddies (pah-leezeee). And finally bravo Mam, you can be my baseball sister for as long as you like, just stop crying!

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this

Wow, that bravo MAM cat is weird. Let me let you in on a little secret, its ok to be a sports fan and blog on multi sports sites you 1 dimensional loser. If this is the only place you voice your cyber opinion about your braves, then you are why real fans pick on you fairweathers. We blog here because it fun to talk baseball wth your teams biggest rivals. I have the same conversatuion with stankee fans, fish fans, and philthy fans all on our NY sites. So just put your hands up and defend your sorry squad and stop crying. Dont try to figure out why I blog, just try to keep up. Try to figure out why your team sucks. Try and figure out if JS is gonna use some of the “Built to Win” money and actually build a team to win (not just division titles). Try to figure out why the METS will sweep you again this week and make you say Uncle since you are our daddies (pah-leezeee). And finally bravo Mam, you can be my baseball sister for as long as you like, just stop crying!

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

“Don’t look back I’ve got your back” is more likely “Don’t look back I’m on your back”. Dave and Bravo Nam should just get a room.

By Lew

September 24, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

Metro Dude-So you blog on the Yankees and Marlins sites, too. Aren’t they thrilled? Do they love your sterling personality, charm and unmatched wit as much as we do? Do you even have a life? It’s pretty obvious you don’t if you spend as much time on their sites trying to convince their fans of their wretchedness as you do trying to convince us of ours. Dude, you are not worthy of hate or even dislike. But I sure do pity you. I hope the Mets division title is therapeutic for you. God knows you need all the help you can get. You and your little dog Stinky.

By steve

September 24, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this

Without question the most competetive, focused athletes I have ever seen were Dan Marino, George Brett, Pete Rose, and Michael Jordon. And I agree that Smoltz would be on that list somewhere.

By Bravo Nam

September 24, 2006 09:52 AM | Link to this

Robert You say that the manager’s job is “to make them better ball players and to win as much as possible. Cox achieves neither.”

You and Metrosexual Boy make a good pair…never let the details get in the way of a good argument! So you’re saying that Cox doesn’t get them to win as much as possible? How many extra wins would be enough- 20, 30, 1000- I suppose the fact that the Braves have the best win-loss record in all of baseball for the past decade doesn’t make much difference either.

Metrosexual Boy Sensitive little fella, aren’t ya. But you proved my point! You can’t stay away, can ya. I was wrong- I assumed that even Mutts fans couldn’t possibly extract any further enjoyment from kicking a dog (the Braves) when it’s down…but you’ve shown your true colours by stooping even lower.

You’re a bit of a front-runner, aren’t ya Metro? Never hear from you when the Mutts get beaten up or the Braves do well. I think it’s the case of the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to your accusation of one-dimensional- everything about you is one-dimensional little fella, from that yellow streak on your back when the Braves are doing well/Mutts badly to show ponying your jockstrap around this site.

So you like to go on to other people’s sites and talk baseball do ya- is that what you call it- incessant slagging off on another team. Fair enough little fella, whatever gives you your kicks. Thanks- I would like to bang your sister.

Stinky The two homo boys and I were thinking of getting a room with you, sweet little fella. But…decided against it because…well…you are stinky…and a bit slimy. But don’t pout- I’ve fixed you up in a threesome with Metrosexual Boy and Robert.

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

Man Lew, stay in your little corner of the world and let the movers and shakers do more and learn more about other places besides the ATL and surrounding areas. I’m sorry I’m so well rounded and have broaden my horizons with other teams, sports, and people. So remain as sheltered as you are and do not reach out of Atlanta for you might get homesick and not know how to act anywhwere else! Just so sad that you can show all you know is the old south, just pathetic. Go around the corner and get lost!

By BravesFaninRockies

September 24, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

Good morning from 36-degree Denver. Sorry to say, it’s been too frickin’ cold to go to Coors the past three nights. Why does it seem OK to risk frostbite when you watch football but not baseball?

Anyway, on the whole should-Andruw-stay-or-should-he-go front: I don’t think it’s been pointed out recently that NO TEAM has won a World Series with as much of its payroll tied up in a single player as the Braves have committed to Andruw now. Unless he takes a serious hometown discount, that percentage will only go up. Meaning the roster will have to be filled with prospects and past-their-prime guys — remember last year’s starting corner outfielders, Jordan and Mondesi? — and few players in the prime of their careers.

Also the fact that we can expect Andruw’s offense and defense to start to slip soon because he’s played every inning of just about every game for the past 10+ seasons, healthy or not. That’s why the rumors about him going to Boston make sense. He could DH one day a week and still get 700 AB.

Who might be available this off-season if Andruw goes and takes his salary? According to mlbtraderumors.com, none other than Mr. Edmonds, who might be signable for $7mm, since he has a $3mm buyout from the Cards. For a year or two, could be worth the investment.

TP: Big disappointment. He made real progress with AJ last year and brought Langerhans around too. Either he can’t get through to them anymore or they aren’t listening. I still think Don Baylor would be a great guy to bring back. Or maybe Andres Gallaraga?

As for Davies, bring on Dr. Freud or Dr. Katz or Dr. Crane or Drs. Moe, Howard and Fine whoever!

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

Bravo Nam, your 6:49 a.m. post about Bobby Cox is so much more reasoned, factual and insightful than what I’m used to seeing here, it almost makes me think you’re either a former player who played for Cox, or a reporter who’s talked to plenty of players and coaches who told you exactly what happens on a daily basis with the team.

Seriously, my man, you discussed the situation like a person who’s around the team, not someone who just hears Cox say “C’mon Kid” to his batters and reads his post-game quotes and forms opinions based only on the most obvious results, such as the occasional questionable managerial decision (every manager makes them) or the 1-for-14 World Series title, etc.

Yours is so much closer to the real Cox and his very huge effect on the daily management of the team, its personalities, its mini-crisis situations, etc., at least according to the past and present players, opposing players and managers, scouts, and front-office officials with the Braves and other teams whom I talk to and who have _ I’m not exaggerating here _ universal respect and admiration for the man. I can honestly say I haven’t asked folks about another athlete, coach or manager and found someone with less detractors than Cox _ excluding fans, of course. He has plenty of detractors there, which is certainly their right.

People are free to criticize him here all they want, even if they want to resort to the 7th-grade donkey stuff or anything else. Matters not to me, but you probably also realize it matters not to the Braves officials who do the evaluating and personnel decisions, including the one regarding Cox. He won’t be fired here, I dare say, ever.

Thanks much for the post.

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

Bravo Nam, I knew there was a reason you were so catty about Penelope Cruz. You were jealous.

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

And again, let me reiterate that Cox drives me crazy sometimes with the consistent platitudes and the always-positive postgame quotes about players, etc.

But trust me, folks, that stuff is just for appearances. He’s not saying the same things to the players or in meetings regarding personnel matters, etc. If a player needs to be put in his place or told he’s not measuring up, or needs a kick in the pants, Cox does it as well as any, but just keeps it private. And that’s the thing that players most appreciate, that he doesn’t “throw them under the bus” by doing it so publicly, like so many other managers that seem to wear our their welcomes and switch teams every few years for some reason…

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Barry Bonds … he’s not going away, is he? This late-season surge is making me cringe, the passing of Hank’s NL homer record, tying his record for 40-homer seasons … chipping away at the Hammer’s marks.

Just doesn’t feel right, is all I can say.

By Lew

September 24, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

MetroDude-Cosmopolitan, are we? I’ll tell you, being in the presence of such a man of the world fills me with such awe, that I can barely cope. Dude, you have no clue where I’m from, where I’ve lived, or just who all of my favorite teams are. I’ve lived in Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Orlando and now live in Vermont. Yeah, I guess that leaves me lost going around the corner. Not that you really care, but I grew up as a Phillies fan and still am a Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan. See, I’m just as well rounded as you, hoser. Or is that poseur. You a mover and shaker? Yeah, I believe that one. You and the Donald, huh? That claim and your high school (almost) education combined with 3 bucks will get you a cup of coffee somewhere. Maybe around that corner you were talking about.

By Lew

September 24, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

Metro Dude-Just so you don’t think it’s all about me, but there are Braves fans on this site blogging from the Carolinas, Tennessee, North Dakota, Vermont, Maine,Massachusetts, The Rockies, Florida,Illinois, China and VietNam. There are Braves fans here from locations that you would probably have trouble pronouncing. Living in NewYork guarantees you nothing except having rats in your sewer system and access to a couple of museums you’ve never visited. Your football teams even play in NewJersey. New Jersey, man what a slap in the face.

By dadgum

September 24, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

Andruw Jones is a phenomenal CF in every way. In fact, defensively, the very best I (and many many others) have seen during our lifetime. Has he lost a step? Maybe a smidgen but he still is better than anyone else INCLUDING EDMONDS. He doesn’t have all the tools that Mays had day in and day out(most noticeably SB’s) but after Mays Andruw is the best CF to ever suit up defensively…..period.

By jon

September 24, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

Joe Z are you kidding me for real with the Jim Edmonds is better than Andruw bit??? Come on now. Those spectacular catches Jim Edmond’s makes wouldn’t be singles if AJ was in center, Andruw would be catching them by his head. Edmond’s, in no way, gets as good a jump on a ball as Andruw does. Andruw makes all his catches look easy and routine, whereas Jim would be having to dive and make “spectacular” catches just to make the out. Andruw is routine, Jim is flashy, there is a huge difference. I mean, Chucky Carr made some brilliant, “flashy”, and spectacular catches in his day, but in no way was he ever better than Andruw.

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

Poor Lew, searching for a team and settled on the sorry braves. You live in vermont becasue they got the sweetest syrup you fudge packer. Anytime we talk baseball, you try to make it personal and get off the subject. When you have lived in NY for 20 years, Virgina, Georgia, Kentucky, and Texas then you can yell how well rounded you are. And for you to switch allegiances makes you the biggets fair weather fan ever, like you really rooted for the phillies. Now get from behind bravo mam so he can release his ankles.

By nathan

September 24, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

Good Morning Everybody!

Tom A. Hawk

Time for round 2?

Let’s get this straight. Are you actually trying to compare Andruw to Reggie Mr. October Jackson?

Yes, I know I said that I’d take good “hitters” over power hitters in the post-season. I stand by that. But you keep mentioning Reggie. Yeah, HE WAS FRICKIN GOOD. What’s your point? Why do you think he was called Mr. October?

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I EXPECT OUT OF MY 15 MILLION DOLLAR CF!!!!!!

Until Andruw Does that on a regular basis, I’ll keep “ripping” his post season play.

As for the Postseason stats of the two (Andruw and Reggie), here goes:

Reggie Jackson:

17 Postseason series, 77 Games (team was 11-6 in those series)

.278 BA, 18 HR with 48 RBI, 33BB with 70 K

Andruw Jones:

Ironicall 17 Postseason series, 75 Games (team was 7-10 in those series)

.273 BA, 10 HR with 33 RBI, 34BB with 50 K

So lets get this straight, our ridiculously powerful “Mr. October” CF, Andruw Jones has 33 RBI in 75 Post season games with only 10 HR? Well we all know that he had 2 HR and 6 RBI in the 1996 Yankees WS. which went 6 games. That means in the 69 games since he was 19 years old he has done this: 8 HR and 27 RBI!! Wow They should just rename the month of October to Andruw (ladies and gentleman, Halloween is now on Andruw 31st!)

BTW, when those “adjusted” stats are calculated over a 162 game schedule they = 18 HR and 63 RBI. Sounds like he’s “clutch” to me!

As far as Reggie goes. Yeah, his “numbers” aren’t that great in the postseason compared to what he did in the regular season throughout his career. BUT THE GUY GOT THE NICKNAME BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY CAME THROUGH UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT OF THE POSTSEASON! Andruw hasn’t done that since games 1 & 2 in Yankee Stadium, when he was a 19 year old rookie! Oh, sorry. Unless you call not swinging at Kenny Rogers “4 foot off the plate” bases loaded BALL FOUR, to send the Braves to the 1999 WS. He would have been lambasted had he NOT laid off of those pitches.

But congratulations on finding the ONE power hitter in the last 3 decades that CONSISTANTLY came through in October.

As for Frank Robinson? What’s your point? In TODAY’S game of baseball, teams sometimes need to trade off a SUPERSTAR to make the team better. But I suppose that you are too ignorant to realize that the Phillies are actually a better TEAM without Bobby Abreu than they were with him? He was a fan favorite, wasn’t he?

Peter Gammons had a “stat” earlier this summer, talking about how NO TEAM in MLB HISTORY has won the world series with one single player taking up 16 percent (or more) of his teams payroll. For the Record I believe at the time (June) Andruw was 17.5 of the Braves current payroll. To my knowledge, Gammons knows a little more about baseball than you or I EVER will pretend to know. So to me, that is a “stat” that rings loud and clear to me.

That’s all I’m getting at people. If our payroll stays where it is (80 million or so) than I think it’s a mistake to invest that high of a percentage to one player. Whether that player is Andruw or any other. But like I’ve said all along. If the payroll goes up. YES by all means. Add starting pitching/bullpen help AND keep Andruw as long as he wants to stay here. But that’s the other question in the equation. Does he want to stay, and for how much?

Let the games begin….er, continue!

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

For the last time Lew you idiot, I live here in Lithonia GA. Besides you make a great point blogging here when from your own admission we are supposedly in different states. You my friend need to work for President Chavez of Venezuela….all mouth but no sense.

By Lew

September 24, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

Metro Dude- My point is it doesn’t matter where you live. You can be a fan of whomever you desire. Ain’t this country great? But you know what, you can be a complete a$$ and an absolute moron no matter where you reside. You, Dude are defitninte proof of that. I am not your friend and just WTF does Chavez have to do with anything in discussion here on this blog? It is certainly typical of cretinous individuals that when they lack the intellgence or insight to mount a logical defense of the crud they spout, they resort to juvenile comments about a person’s sexuality. Think what you will dumba$$. Anything I say will neither change your mind nor make you a viable human being. Apparently your parents made major mistakes years ago and your problems are well beyond the scope of my abilities to aid you (if I even wanted to). BTW-I have been married to the same woman (yes, I am a man) for 31 years. Can you make a similar claim? I sincerely doubt it douchebag, because no one could stand your presence that long. Lithoina-wow-just how cosmopolitan can a person get?

By Bob, journalist

September 24, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Let’s try to enjoy, rather than destroy … it’s much more fun … and for those who ponder if I might indeed have an attitude, here it is.

Even the food and service in the finest of restaurants will sometimes disappoint … expressing your displeasure on such occassions is just as important as expressing your appreciation when expectations are surpassed.

However, me thinks you should always try to do it in such a way as to be welcomed back as a valued customer!

It’s as true at Turner Field and on the Blog of David O’B as it is at Antoine’s or Galatoire’s … whether the fare is Braves’ Baseball, antedotes or fine French Cuisine.

Time to scat!

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

LMAO @ Lew. What nerve did i hit cat becasue non of this is that serious. You read my post, go to the dictionary and make sure you spelled words with more than 3 letters correctly. I blog while at work mostly and my co-workers find most of these comment hilarious. This is for entertainment value when working. You cat need to relax and stop stating the obvious, if it aint baseball then I cant respond. Dude if you dont want me to be personal, take it back to baseball, if you want the insults (waste of time) please feel free to continue so I can rip you a new one. And did you have to mention your wife, thats just insecurity at its best, besides I’m cheatin with her anyway.

By Lew

September 24, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Nathan-As someone pointed out earlier, we overspent on middle of the road (I’m being generous) players like Sosa, Reitsma, Remlinger and Jordan. Thomson’s option for $4.5 mil this season seemed at the time to be reasonable, but certainly didn’t turn out that way. Paying Andruw, Chipper and Smoltz has not been our problem, nor will it be for 07. With the departure of the aforementioned dead wood, we will have $12.5 million PLUS the $2 million we will have because Smoltz”s salary goes down this year- we will have $14.5 million to spend helping the team. $6.5 mil of that just got spent on Wicky. The rest will cover all arbitration raises (including Marcus). This should still leave a couple of bucks left to play with and JS is capable of pulling off deals for next to nothing (eg-Wicky for a A catcher with damn little upside). If Andruw and Marcus leave after 07 for free agency, so be it. WE will take our supplemental picks and have about $20 mil to buy new guys. Why are you so worried? The bullpen next year is already more stable than this year. So what if Kyle Davies is not quite ML ready? Send him down and give Cormier a shot. Give Villarreal a shot (though I’d rather have him in long relief). We will still have a better chance of winning with Andruw than with Cereal Man or someone of his ilk in center. We’ve already seen that not much was offered for Andruw at a time when most teams would OVERSPEND to get him. Why do you think they will offer more in the offseason? Coco Crisp and a rookie pitcher were what was offered. I’ll take my chances with Andruw.

By Lew

September 24, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

Metro Dude-Yeah, whatever.

By Jim

September 24, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

It is hard to compare fielders of a different era. We get to see a sample of their greatest catches and throws, but not their everyday contributions. I’m old enough to have seen Willie Mays play, mostly on TV. Here are my recollections: Mays had three big advantages in establishing his reputation as the greatest centerfielder of all time — 1) He was in the first generation of players to play regularly before a TV audience; 2) He was among the first generation of black athletes to play in the major leagues. Their infusion added much more speed into the game. (Look at the SB stats from the late 40’s through the 50’s.) Joe DiMaggio was a great centerfielder in the pre-Mays era because he positioned himself according to each pitch in the AB and made everything look easy. Mays’s reputations benefits from being the first star in the new faster paced game. 3) Mays played in his prime years in a ballpark that had the deepest centerfield ever. Vic Wertz’s drive is a HR in any of today’s parks. For these three reasons, Mays, the star of the era, became the standard by which future centerfielders were measured.

The biggest change since Mays started playing is the glove. I don’t remember outfielders in Mays’s day making the diving catches that are the routine web-gems seen on sports center today. The gloves worn in the 50’s probably made that play too difficult (And certainly the earlier gloves did not provide opportunities and examples for kids to practice making these plays while growing up.)

Mays had flair and made everything look spectacular. Andruw makes many plays look easy. Mays was faster and had a big centerfield to demonstrate his abilities in. His greatest strength was going back on the ball over his head. Andruw has the advantage of the glove technology and outfield techniques developed since the Mays era. We can argue how Andruw and Mays would be compared if they played in each other’s era, but given the evolution of the game, nobody has played centerfield defense better than Andruw during his first 8 years in the position.

By Shaun Payne

September 24, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

you don’t explain why Hudson had more than twice as many strikeouts as walks every season in Oakland, but hasn’t come close in two seaons with Braves. Why are his strikeouts in steady decline if, as you seem to be saying, he’s the same pitcher?

Well, his strikeout rate hasn’t really declined significantly. His worst rate was 2004: 4.91 K/9. His K/9 is better this year than it was last year. Even his 2002 year, when he posted his lowest ERA (2.98) and won 15 games, his K rate was lower (5.74 K/9) than it is this season.

The thing is Hudson was so good in his first three seasons—he looked like another Pedro—it was difficult for him to improve. Since 2002, he’s been basically the same pitcher. Luck and the teams around him have made him look good in some seasons and bad in others since 2002.

Hudson can’t really go deep into games like he could early in his career. Injury and age have taken their toll and he’s now merely a good pitcher instead of the Hall of Famer that everyone thought he would be. He’s more of a Pat Hentgen or Jack Morris than a Pedro Martinez or Greg Maddux.

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

Life is great. Stienbugger is punishing his season tickets holders who re-saling their tickets online. Have you ever seen a situation like this? The man has boo-koos of dough, and still wants to sqaush the little people. This is why I am a METS fan, the yankees are pompous brats. Even the braves have more class than that.

By Robert

September 24, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

“So you’re saying that Cox doesn’t get them to win as much as possible? How many extra wins would be enough- 20, 30, 1000- I suppose the fact that the Braves have the best win-loss record in all of baseball for the past decade doesn’t make much difference either.”

Well, I guess ONE extra win would be enough, if it were the one that clinched the WS

My contention is that, as good as the Braves’ won-loss record has been over the past 15 seasons, that :

1) Regular season wins arent what it’s about (unless youre CFO of the Braves)

2) That no matter how good the record has been, it would be BETTER if someone or someones other than Cox had been manager

Bobby Cox EASILY costs his team 5-10 wins a year in the regular season.

He EASILY costs them at least one game every playoff series

Y’all consistantly fail to do one thing, and that is to take things in CONTEXT.

A 95 win season isnt a good one, if your team was supposed to win 100

No matter how many times I say it, it doesnt seem to get thru - Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz - healthy 90% of the time, two of them always healthy - winning 90 games and a division title under those circumstances is NOT impressive

Y’all are the same crowd that thinks BYU deserved a national championship for going 13-0 against the Little Sisters of the Poor

By Robert

September 24, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

Heard over the TBS microphone next season. Andruw Jones at bat:

Bobby Cox: “Hee-haw” Nathan: “Take it to right, Andruw, like I’ve been telling you!”

(Andruw strikes out for the third time in the game trying to pull a pitch down and away)

Bobby Cox: “Hee-haw”

By Robert

September 24, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

“So you’re saying that Cox doesn’t get them to win as much as possible? “

YES! That’s exactly what I am saying. In SPADES when it comes to the playoffs.

The 14 division titles were IN SPITE of Cox, not BECAUSE of Cox.

I admit it can be hard to see this if all you look at is regular season wins and if you put too much attention on a meaningless stat like division title streaks.

It’s like this - If I tell you that a pitcher struck out 200 batters last season, your first inclination would be to say he is a good one. But what if you look further and see that he walked 250 and had an ERA of 6?

CONTEXT!

By BB FAN

September 24, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Robert,

Andruw Jones has improved a lot over the last 10 years. Striking out on low outside sinkers/sliders is part of the game. He doesn’t do it as much as he used to. That is improvement. I’ve seen everybody from Mickey Mantle to Albert Pujols to Alex Rodriguez strike out on low and outside pitches. Nobody is perfect.

You act like hitting Major league pitching is supposed to be easy. News Flash!!! It’s not easy, it never has been and it never will be. That’s why there are only approximetely 400 hitters in the majors!!

And Andruw had 51 HRs and 128 RBIs last year and has 39 HRs and 124 RBIs with 7 games left this year. I would say that is improvement from the years when he was a 30 HR and 90 RBI guy. What games have you been watching over the last 10 years? That’s a huge improvement!

You’re right, you didn’t come right out and say he was stupid, but saying “He is not the brightest bulb in the box” is insinuating that. I don’t care how you look at it.

Have you ever even met the guy? Probably not. Have you ever talked to him? Probably not. Because the few times I have talked to him, he seemed as intelligent as the next guy. So why are you so quick to jump to the conclusion that “He is not the brightest bulb in the box?” Just because he strikes out on the low and outside slider/sinker from a major league pitcher? Now that’s a real intelligent conclusion. Who’s not the brightest bulb in the box?

By Shaun Payne

September 24, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

As far as his walk rate, that’s a good point. But I think that may have to do with the A’s philosophy. The A’s don’t believe in pitching around guys or intentional walks as much as other teams. Hudson has issued 10 intentional walks this season, and there is no way to tell how many guys he’s pitched around. Other “wildness” indicators are pretty consistent or maybe worse in Oakland—wild pitches, hit batsmen.

Maybe he has gotten a lot more wild in Atlanta, but I’m not so sure about that. Really, most of his stats look pretty consistent from 2002-present except his walks.

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

Break it down for dem Robert!

By Robert

September 24, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

“I’m sure there are Managers out there who are better tacticians…but there is NO ONE out there who knows how to manage a team, relate to players, boost their battered confidence and balm their shattered mental states better than Cox.”

So your arguement is that what pro athletes need in a manager is a babysitter.

Sorry - These guys are sometimes maddening and sometimes immature, but they are ADULTS, and they are PROFESSIONALS

They dont need their diapers changed. What they need at manager is exactly a master tactician

Dave, you dare say that Cox will never be fired here. Thanks - that’s the most depressing thing I have heard in weeks

Dave, I’ll make you a bet - You name the stakes. I wager that so long as Bobby Cox managees the team, the Braves never win another World Series

You can plug in the all-time all-stars from the HOF starting with Ruth-Cobb-Williams and going thru Johnson-Grove-Koufax

If Cox manages them , they dont win a title.

They’ll have clean diapers and they’ll love uncle Bobby because they can always make the 10AM tee time on days they arent pitching, but they wont have no rings

By dadgum

September 24, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Stat-wise you can’t compare players from different eras. That is true. Not fair or really revealing as relevant. Simply what you can do is say that Mays would have been just as great an outfielder today as he was in the 50’s. Great talent is great talent regardless of the era. You give Mays eternal youth, better fitness, and modern technological improvements and he would be great today….guaranteed. To put it in golf lingo. Do you really think it is fair to compare Booby Jones and Tiger Woods? No…but project Jones into the game of golf today and the man would be off the charts. Bottom line is you have to even the playing field when making cross-era comparisons. It is fun nevertheless to conjecture and compare.

By Robert

September 24, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

“Have you ever even met the guy? Probably not. Have you ever talked to him? Probably not”

Yes, and yes

Do you consider Andru to be a student of the game? Say in the same way as a Tony Gwynn or a Ted Williams?

If so, then maybe he is the brightest bulb in the box. If not, I’ll stick by what I said, understand what I meant, and let you all upset about it

By Shaun Payne

September 24, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Robert,

I can understand you suspending judgement on Bobby Cox being a great manager. But I don’t see how you can say with certainty that he’s a bad manager, that he’s cost the Braves 5-10 wins a year, etc. You really haven’t given any convincing evidence.

By Robert

September 24, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Peace offering

Andru Jones is great. He is very smart. He is a superstar in all aspects of the game. He is going to finish with another .260 season with his typical HR and RBI stats and typical K/BB rate. However, let me state that he has clearly been improving, no doubt because of Bobby Cox

Furthermore, let me add that it is now clear to me that Bobby Cox was the only reason any of the Braves teams ever won a single game. I mean, without him standing on the dugout steps staring off into space, I doubt that Maddux, Glavine, or Smoltz could even have found the pitchers mound, much less won nearly 800 career games between them

All the good, very good, star and superstar ballplayers who have played for the Braves since 1991 were or would have been nothing without the genius backing them all the way.

I sometimes lie awake at night wondering how it was possible for former players like Hank Aaron or Phil Niekro to have been great without Bobby Cox there to manage them. My god, if only the Hammer couldve teamed up with Cox, he mightve hit 500 home runs! (oopsy!)

By Jim

September 24, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

Robert, It’s easy to say that Bobby Cox has cost the Braves at least 1 win in every playoff series (except the ones we swept 3-0, I suppose), but give us examples. What games has Cox specifically lost? And when a team that wins more than 100 games a year, as the Braves have done 5 times in the past 14 years, should they have won 125 with a different manager? Please give us the specifics of where Cox has lost these playoff series!

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

When Dusty Baker managed the Giants he wanted more from Bonds then just HR’s. He wanted more stolen bases, more big game hits, and more all around aggresiveness. The same happened when he went to the cubbies and wanted Sosa to step his game up. The point here is if your manager never tries to get you to that next level, you will never get there. Dusty would have andruw reaching all these big numbers he should be putting up every single year barring injury. Bottom line, Cox is a good man but he coddles grown men to much that they may never truly reach their potential while playing for him. Just once he needs to chastise instead of praise. I see most of you recognize this but when he gets his fire going, then maybe so will his players. Getting thrown out does nothing, yell at a player for a change and make him MAN-UP! But only after the METS continue to eliminate you form divisional races of course.

By Robert

September 24, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

Shaun - I can cite some quick ones. Go back to the early 90’s - when time after time he let Avery pitch 6 great innings and then let him go out and get rocked in the 7th

Or having Wohlers in too early in game 3 of the WS

Or leaving Maddux in to start inning 8 against the Yanks in game 1 in 99 - first hitter up is Brosius who is already 2 for 2 off Maddux in the game

Repeat performance leaving starter in in game 3

How many times did he go to Reitsma this year when it was clear Reitsma couldnt get it done? (not dogging Chris - he was hurt)

Critizing LaRoche for trying to bunt and advance a runner to generate a run when it backfired into a game ending dp

I could go on — Shane, watch a game and it should be clear. Make it a playoff game if your stomach is strong. Watch the opposing manager manipulate Cox like a marionette so that he is always behind the 8 ball when the game deciding events are going to unfold, with the startegic edge always to the other team

Watch his teams not show up for the postseason. Watch them whine about umpires or just flat out not show any emotion at all. Watch them make a big fuss about how much adversity they overcame with Cox because a backup stubbed his pinky in spring training

By Shaun Payne

September 24, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Robert,

Okay, maybe we don’t have any overwhelming evidence either way—the Cox is a great manager or Cox is a horrible manager. But shouldn’t we give him the benefit of the doubt considering his teams have won over 55 percent of their games 15 of the last 16 seasons and he has a .566 career winning percentage?

Yes, I do agree that managers don’t make that much of a difference. The difference they do make is difficult to measure because it really has more to do with getting the most out of their players and so the players get a lot of the credit. But if a manager wins as often as Cox, shouldn’t we assume he’s doing something right?

You can say all you want about the post-season, and I do agree that Cox and the Braves organization as a whole deserve some criticism. But they’ve still won in plenty of years when they should not have—in years they had a lot of injuries or they weren’t the most talented team, etc.

By nathan

September 24, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Lew

C’mon man.

Yes, Smoltz has been and as long as he stays healthy, will be worth whatever he is being paid. 8 million, 15 million 20 million whatever. He is and like I said, with good health, will ALWAYS be a big game pitcher. Though you could argue that he “failed” us a little bit down the stretch this year.

Andruw. He’s probably worth every penny he’s being paid, but I’m still not convinced it’s worth it for the BRAVES to spend that much on him.

Chipper. When healthy, the guy has proven that he is still one of the most feared hitters in the game. He’s clutch. He lifts those around him up to a new level. Whatever cliche’ you want to use. HE’S IT! He is to hitting for the Braves, what Smoltz has been to the pitching forever and a day. But you are going to be hard pressed to convince me that it’s worth the 8 or 9 million a year to have him play in about 100 games. One could argue that with him in the lineup for all 162 games, we might have overcome the bullpen woes. Chipper over 62 other games HAS to be worth at least 6 or 7 more WINS, doesn’t he? If your answer is NO, than YES, he is overpaid.

As far as overspending on middle of the road guys. Yup, we sure did. Do you know why we had to overpay for those guys? Because we had NO MONEY left to actually overspend on GOOD pitchers. Wouldn’t have been nice for JS to be able to afford to overspend on Wickman last year> Or give BJ Ryan a long deal to shore up the bullpen? Noboby signed here, because WE DIDN’T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO OFFER THEM A GOOD ENOUGH DEAL TO COME HERE!

We got STUCK with Reitsma and Sosa, because we couldn’t afford to “go get” what we actually needed. Now who knows, maybe JS had confidence in Reitsma and chose not to overspend on a closer, but if that’s the case then I should direct my “anger” towards him! LOL!

Lew, I enjoy our “conversatios” as much as the one I have with ANYBODY on here. But this time, IMO, I think you’re wrong.

But hey! That’s why this is a discussion board. Not and “everybody who agrees with eachother, come on here and talk about it” board! LOL!

By BB FAN

September 24, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Robert,

I’m not upset, I just dislike ignorant and judemental people. If you have talked to him, then you would realize he is intelligent. Just because a guy (who hits 40 HRs and drives in 125 runs) gets fooled by a low and outside slider once in a while, it does mean he is any less intelligent than Ted Williams or Tony Gwynn. Both of those guys were high average hitters and would be considered “students of the game.” But Andruw Jones is also a student of the game. Look at him on defense. He is a professor when it comes to defense. Everybody has strengths and weaknesses. I’ll take Andruw striking out on those low and outside sliders once in a while along with his unbelievable defense and 40 HRs and 125 RBIs. The Braves are no where as good without him.

By nathan

September 24, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Robert!

I, for one, ENJOY your sarcasm.

Nice “recall” on the games that Cox has, how should I say, “dropped the ball”.

One of the bigger ones that a lot of people talk about is 1991, bringing in Leibrandt to face Puckett. I used to just get steamed thinking about that move. But I guess, in all fairness, Puckett was about as CLUTCH a it came. Damn Good HITTER. Did what he needed to get his team over the hump. My guess in retrospect is that Puckett would’ve done somthing great, no matter what pitcher Eyor would’ve brought in.

Metroman I couldn’t agree more about a guy like Dusty Baker. Sosa and Bonds chose to JUICE UP and smack the ball 500 feet everytime, instead of doing the things they did when the were younger to help their teams win. Run, play defense and occasionally hit the long ball. On the other hand, Baker is HORRIBLE at handling a pitching staff. So while he might’ve gotten more out of Andruw. He may have led Smoltz right back to the operating table if given the opportunity to manage him!

By Shaun Payne

September 24, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Robert,

You are giving us anecdotal evidence and trying to play on emotion rather than giving us overwhelming proof that supports your claim that Cox is a bad manager. Also you are saying these are bad moves, but that is subjective—maybe Wohlers was the best option in the 8th inning, maybe Maddux is the best option, maybe Reitsma was the best option.

I’m sure if I watched any manager long enough, I could point out four or five moves that I disagreed with throughout his career. That’s really not enough to say he’s a bad manager.

I think a lot of the things you’re criticizing Cox about are things that almost every manager in baseball would do in similar situations. And you aren’t really giving any strong evidence. You are simply saying things you disagree with or giving emotional testimony to support your point of view.

Give us some strong evidence that would be hard for anyone to argue with. Try asking the question Is Cox a good manager or bad manager? instead of convincing yourself he’s a bad manager based on what you’ve observed or based on your pre-conceived notion of what a good manager should be.

By Robert

September 24, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

BB Fan - Fair enough. I like how Nathan put it - worth every penny but maybe not worth it to the Braves - it’s certainly debateable

Shaun - someone quoted a .507 winning pct in the playoffs yesterday

Was it twelve years they had two of the big three? Eight or nine when all three were healthy?

Tell me - in your opinion, is winning 5 and a half games out of every ten and playing a dead spank AVERAGE playoff team with those rosters - do you feel that this was overachievement?

The division titles streak is what blinds people. It’s an artificial marker.

Like I have said, the Braves could probably win 437 consecutive Little League WS - it would not a priori mean they were a great team

Ask yourself - put Joe Torre in the dugout - and who cares if the streak would have been 12 out of 14 - twice six or what EVER? How many RINGS would they have?

Did you WATCH the 1999 World Series? Torre vs Cox. Was that FAIR? That was Albert Einstein amusing himself at the expense of Bozo the Clown

By nathan

September 24, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

BB FAN

You said:

The Braves are no where as good without him.

Referring to Andruw.

Now I know they faltered down the stretch. But are the Texas Rangers better off or worse off without AROD? He did win an MVP there, didn’t he? IMO he is a better SS than Jeter is. But that is Jeter’s team. You can’t expect the leader of a team to move positions to make room for another great player, can you? Oh. Wait. THAT IS EXACTLY what Chipper did to make room for Vinny a few years back. Anyhow, getting of topic here.

AROD is equally as good ALL AROUND, as Andruw is. But at some point, you have to improve OTHER areas of your TEAM by sacrificing one GREAT player.

It is NO DIFFERENT than when we let Glavine and Maddux go. Is it? Tell me that this team wouldn’t be in the playoffs if we had Maddux and Glavine on this team instead of Hudson and all of the other guys who have failed. Even if Andruw would not have been here.

NOT A CHANCE IN HELL that this team misses the playoffs without Andruw if TWO GOOD STARTING PITCHERS ARE ADDED. (and one - Tim Hudson - is dumped) Hudson actually hurts us more than he helps us. I’d give anything for a pitcher that didn’t give up 6 runs in the first three innings of EVERY game. Kinda hard to come back from 6 down EVERY NIGHT, before the 4th inning has hit!

This team made the playoffs for the better part of a decade, with SOLID PITCHING!!!!! The “cast of characters” was constantly changing (Nixon, TP, Gant, Justice, Deieon, Grissom, Klesko, Javy, McGriff, Sheffield, JD Drew, Big Cat, Weiss, Blauser, Estrada, Furcal, Renteria, Giles, Boone, McCann, Francoeur, LaRoche, Lofton, Surhoff, Brogna, Lemke, Bream, Chipper, Andruw, Derosa, Graffinino, Vinny……….) You get the picture.

GLAVINE, SMOLTZ, MADDUX! 3 HOF pitchers were here together for the better part of a decade! THEY ARE WHY THE BRAVES CONTEDED EACH YEAR!

Until JS gets back to making Starting Pitching the priority. This team will either not get to the playoffs, or continue to fail when they get there.

Try and argue that point with me. I dare you.

By Jim

September 24, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

Robert, Letting Avery in to pitch an extra inning (I think it was the 8th in ‘92 in game 3 against Toronto) — (His choice was between a tiring Avery or the Bullpen — remember Jeff Reardon in the previous game?)

Avery DID pitch 6 great innings in ‘95. (And 8 great innings in ‘91)

In ‘99 the Braves had no business even winning the division, let alone getting to the WS. We lost Galaraga for the whole year, Lopez for most of the year, and Smoltz was holding himself together with sidearm deliveries and knuckleballs. It’s easy to say that Maddux should not have started the eighth inning (or Glavine 2 games later), but again he did not have a strong bullpen, and Maddux probably did not have a high pitch count.

In “the Leyritz game” Cox asked his closer to protect a 3 run lead for 2 innings. (and it was the first of these that caused the problem.) Wohlers gave up a swinging bunt, a seeing eye single on a good AB by Strawberry, got a DP grounder that Belliard bobbled and only got 1 out, then made the infamous bad pitch to Leyritz. Wohlers pitched the 9th and pitched out of trouble. Was it Cox’s fault that the team did not build on its lead after Rogers left the game? Who should Cox have asked to pitch the 8th? Has no other manager asked his closer to pitch an extra inning in the playoffs?

The weak spot of the Braves every year has been the bullpen and the bench.

Cox was justifiably upset at LaRoche for bunting in that situation — If the sac were successful it would have taken the bat out of McCann’s hands and left it up to Langerhans and Orr to get the runs in. I would rather take my chances with LaRoche and McCann with runners on 1 and 2, rather than Langerhans and Orr with runners on 1, 2 and 3. “Smart” baseball is only smart if the situation calls for it.

The Braves should have done better in ‘93, ‘97, and ‘02, and over-achieved in ‘91, ‘99, ‘04, and ‘05. In ‘98 they should have beaten the Padres, but were unlikely to beat the Yankees. In ‘92 and ‘96 the teams were pretty evenly matched with the difference being the pen and bench. In ‘95 Cleveland was the favorite, but the Braves had their best bench and pen during their 14-year span that year.

By dunwoody in denver

September 24, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Now THIS is fall in Denver!!! Sunny, 68 degrees, no humidity, crystal-blue skies, the snow-covered peaks of the Rocky Mountains to the west. It’ll be 75 all next week.

Hey David, too bad you have to leave after today’s game…the last 3 days are SO not representative of the weather here in the fall; TODAY is.

By Bravo Nam

September 24, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

It’s 12.15am, but had to post a blog coz at the moment there are about as many Mutts or anti-Braves bloggers on here as there are Braves!

Who do I start with first? Metro Boy, Stinky or Robert? You’re all cut from the same cloth of men whose mothers obviously did not breatfeed them enough. I’ll get a few ole gals in so you can nestle your heads in there and get your fill…then they’ll powder your bums and you’ll be ready to face the real world again.

Stinky Poo Sweet boy, you’ve hit it on the head. Real catty about Penelope and DOB. That’s why I’m here in the Nam enjoying a bevy of beauties…and you’re stuck in bed with ole Robert and Metro. I actually think its your three fellas who may be on heat a bit. Steady boys!!

Roberto Lots of lovely logical arguments there big fella. Good to see that you’re still not letting the details get in the way of a good argument. Stumped me! Aw look…better say something, otherwise you might get upset. I’ll throw two things your way:

1). You say that BASEBALL players are ADULTS and PROFESSIONALS. Hahahahahahahahahahaahahahaahahaha…I’m not sure I’m going to be able to continue writing here (rolling around the ground in uncontrollable laughter). I was right about the breastfeeding, wasn’t I buddy. You were obviously born yesterday!!

Not wanting to let a small detail get in the way of a good argument, you forgot three words: supposed to be. Little Robbie, now this may come as a shock to ya, but no, there isn’t a Santa Claus. Nor an Easter Bunny!! But all players are ADULTS and PROFESSIONALS!! Again, rolling in fits. Mate, you couldn’t find one, just one player, manager or coach in the whole of baseball who’d agree with that argument. Um, where do I start? Pete Rose, John Rocker, Barry Bonds, Shea Hillenbrand, Carl Everett…and after adding a few hundred high profile candidates to this list, you can add most other players at one time or another. I don’t want to disabuse you of your Pollyannish view of the world, but unfortunately Robbie, most baseball players, like the rest of us, don’t always act like adults or professionals. That’s why someone like Bobby Cox is invaluable…almost irreplaceable…because a manager is so much more than a baseball expert, they’re also a mediator, diplomat, arbitrator, mother, father, brother.

2). I don’t know which baseball team you root for fella, but feel free to discount anything I and any other blogger on this site has said to date about Bobby Cox…but I think you might learn a little something about humility and how little you know if you were to speak to every player and coach on the team you follow and say the things you’ve just said about BC- they wouldn’t show the same humour as I have little fella, and after ensuring you understood how asinine your comments are…they’d lock you up!

Metrosexual Boy Honey, we’ve gotta stop meeting like this. People will talk.

From now on, I’m just gonna call you my macho hunk, my man of the world! After all, you’re such a well-rounded, gentile young fella, aren’t ya? Although…I’m not sure you can count! You argued that once Lew has lived in five states like you, then only hten does he have the right to talk on the same level you do. Well…ya better use your fingers…coz he too has lived in five states! But as I said, you and Robbie are a good pair, coz those facts never get in the way of a good argument, do they? And I must say…everything you write is representative of the man of the world- open-minded, humble, self-deprecating.

DOB Thanks for the support on BC…and I’m hearing you about Bonds. Unfortunately, I better not say too much, as poor old Stinky (who also has Metro and Robbie’s disease…never lets the details get in a way of a good argument) will think we’re getting it on (even tho I really don’t like Penelope and I think we need two SPs minimum)…and that must mean we are!

By Robert

September 24, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

BB Fan - You know, the occasional Gold Club incident aside, these guys are pros. If what they need is a father figure out there on the field, they dont belong in the big leagues

The manager is supposed to be the chessmaster - knows what the pieces can do and coordinates them to formulate a winning strategy

Bobby Cox starts every game with two extra rooks and an extra queen (no pun intended toward any player’s sexual orientation) He makes it thru the early part of the season with that incredible advantage and we are all amazed. And yet, despite the great pieces, in the end, he always loses to a guy who is moving around a bunch of pawns

Shane - My feeling is that any evidence I give you you will reject. Sure, maybe leaving an older starter in to pitch the 8th against a great team leading off with a guy 2 for 2 against him is the right move. There’s probably a good 3% chance it was the right move

And likewise, maybe you think that closers should routinely go 2 innings, bypassing set-up men. Maybe in some cases it would be the right move. Odds say no, but who are we to question Bobby Cox?

Hey here’s one I’m sure you’ll agree with. Last postseason, in games three and foiur against the Aastros - late in the game (7th in game 3, 10th in game 4) in tie games, he brings in - Reitsma -

Given Reitsma recent “successes” at that time, what was Cox doing? Surrendering?

and by the way BB Fan

“but I think you might learn a little something about humility and how little you know if you were to speak to every player and coach on the team you follow and say the things you’ve just said about Bobby”

Hmm - that begs some questions

1.You laughed at me for calling them adults. Well, if they arent, then why would we give credence to their judgement?

2.If they ARE adults, then why were you ridiculing me, and if they know so much about what they need, then why dont we just let them manage themselves?

Doesnt seem to matter to you how much doubletalk or contradictory nonsense you spew, as long as noone dare question Cox’s divinity

I root for the Braves. I get ill when I think of the teams they had, and how LITTLE they truly achieved with those teams - how many golden opportunities Cox squandered (starting in Toronto)

BBFan - as much as I disagree with you, I’ll say this - if you had managed the Braves the past 14 seasons, they’d have at least twice as many rings as they won under Cox’s “leadershit” - (and for all I know, you might only be 13 years old)

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

As we speak, there’s a Mariachi band playing atop the Braves dugout, in full regalia including sombreros. And _ I’m not making this up _ there is one Brave standing on the top step watching. Horacio Ramirez.

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

nathan:

You’re absolute hatered and disdain for Andruw is baffling. But if you must scream him out the door then so beit. I do have a few points…
First, Andruw is not making 15 million dollars. He is making 13 million dollars and he hasn’t made that much every year he’s played for the Braves.

Second, there were 12 starters this year, so far, not 10.

Third, this team needs pitching more than a leadoff man. We’ve scored the second most runs in the league. More than the Mets, who have a leadoff man. We’ve scored the second most runs in the league, more than the Mets, even with Chipper injured, McCann on the DL for 2 weeks. Renteria on the DL. Andruw’s big slumps. Francoeurs 120+ Ks. Langerhans .230 average with a 100+ Ks. We Average over 5 runs a game (something we only did 2 times in the 6 years Furcal lead off). The Braves need pitching. Pitching. Pitching. Pitching.

By nathan

September 24, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

Robert

BBFan - as much as I disagree with you, I’ll say this - if you had managed the Braves the past 14 seasons, they’d have at least twice as many rings as they won under Cox’s “leadershit” - (and for all I know, you might only be 13 years old)

That’s classic. Nice stuff.

By Bob, journalist

September 24, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Robert, there’s no question that satire and misdirection can be effective tools in the hands of the adroit, but just as religous zealots frequently find when they forget who it is that they are worshiping, it’s usually best not to smugly posture one’s self as being all knowing.

There are certainly many who like that which they see of the Bobby Cox management style and many who don’t … but never forget that the part of Stone Mountain that we see is but a fraction of the total rock formation and it was Don Knotts and not Barney Pfife that made us laugh.

There’s a lot to be said for “how the game is played” being more important than “wins and losses” and somehow … “adult, professional and immature” just doesn’t compute … I guess it’s a matter of perspective.

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

And _ I’m not making this up _ there is one Brave standing on the top step watching. Horacio Ramirez.
Incredible. I absolutely love it.

There’s this little mexican restaurant in Santa Ana (there are a lot of them in Santa Ana, but I enjoy this one in particular) that plays all sorts of mariachi music and the likes. I go there for lunch on occassion just to escape from it all. Hardly anyone speeks english and all the waitresses are foxy little things. And the music is just fabulous. It’s like a little vacation in the middle of the day.

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Dunwoody, you’re right _ weather here today is absolutely perfect. But I know it’s like this most of the time this time of year, ‘cause my sister lives here and I’ve also been here many times late in the season with the Marlins and Braves.

Robert, your posts were a hit with a Rockies scout and two Denver reporters I just showed them do. We were talking about Cox and they couldn’t believe when I told them about tehe vocal minority of Braves fans who’d like to see him fired. I showed them 4-5 of your posts and they absolutely couldn’t believe. They asked if you were serious. I said, far as I can tell, you were. You are, right?

I wouldn’t even know where to begin to argue with your assertions about Cox. But i think they’re so over-the-top ridiculous, no need to anyway. Let’s just put it this way _ you say the Braves have won despite him, and all the Braves, I’ve talked to in the past week, including one who’s here today, Vinny Castilla, say he’s the BIGGEST reason they won 14 titles. Who to believe, Robert who watches from afar, or the guys in the clubhouse? Hmmm, let’s see. That’s a tough one….

By Robert

September 24, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Dave - since when is the goal to win dicision titles?

I’d trade 12 of those division titles for a second WS title. I know others might disagree, but

As far as the guys in the clubhouse - in my view you are saying that the chess pieces know how to play chess

Hey I have an idea - let’s let the alcoholics vote for best bartender

I’m over the top ridiculous you say. Well, I dont really mind being that I suppose. I just wish my team wasnt 1 for 14.

“There are certainly many who like that which they see of the Bobby Cox management style and many who don’t … but never forget that the part of Stone Mountain that we see is but a fraction of the total rock formation and it was Don Knotts and not Barney Pfife that made us laugh”

I shudder to think of the part we dont see (Pendleton leading Cox down to the clubhouse with the old carrot on a stick trick, for one).

Cox doesnt make me laugh. He makes me cry

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

Great posts, TennPaul, on Andruw and the mariachi bands. you talking santa ana, ca.? as in orange county? I lived in Newport Beach for a year and used to go to bars and restaurants out in santa ana and that area.

I think I might have woken some of the Braves this morning blasting David Allan Coe in my hotel room. Come to find out, Bobby Cox, the Braves’ travel director, and a couple others are on the same floor….

“‘Cause my long hair just can’t cover up my red neck…”

By Robert

September 24, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Dave - I wonder whether your Rockies scout is from the schoool that judges players by how they look in their uniforms and thinks Moneyball is over the top ridiculous as well

As for the reporters - I can see why y’all are easy on Bobby - he doesnt go off on the reporters like an Ozzie Guillen (1 for 1 in WS quests by the way) does. Bobby is a nice guy to y’all.

I guess the bottom line is that if your definition of success is NL East division titles, then Cox is a great manager when he has three HOF starters

I love in Terrence’s forum there is a guy with the bog name Connie Mack defending Cox. How ironic that the guy who sat on the bench, totally senile, staring off into space and unable to recognize his players for about a decade should be lauding his protege Cox

And Dave - when Cox says stupid things to you reporters - HE ISNT ACTING

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

For anyone interested. I ran through a few years for comparison. This year is by far the worst on just about every level. We’re scoring a lot of runs, which is about the only bright spot.

Year RnS RnA Dff RS/G RA/G Df/G
2006 801 781 020 5.17 5.04 0.13
2005 769 674 095 4.75 4.16 0.59
2004 803 688 115 4.96 4.25 0.71
2003 907 740 167 5.60 4.57 1.03
2002 708 565 143 4.37 3.49 0.88
2001 729 643 086 4.50 3.97 0.53
2000 810 714 096 5.00 4.41 0.59
1999 840 661 179 5.18 4.08 1.10
1998 826 581 245 5.10 3.59 1.51
1995 645 544 101 4.48 3.77 0.71

I didn’t do all the seasons to 1991. I was going to, but it was taking to long.

By Robert

September 24, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

By the way Dave - Cox did a darn fine job in the front office for the Braves. He helped put together great teams. Too bad that he later stepped into the dugout and mismanaged them to underachievement.

But note this - One of the early Braves that didnt stay to play on the good Braves teams was none other than the expert on Braves affairs Vinny Castilla - career adjusted OPS of 96, inflated stats at Coors aside top single season OPS 128

Cox was smart enough to know Vinny was expendable.

Cox knows who can and who cant play. He just doesnt know how to get them to play best

By Tom A. Hawk

September 24, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

I think it’s official, Dave. You can mark it down. Robert actually said in an offhand way with his 2:48 p.m. that he knows more about baseball than the men who play it.

And since Cox and only Cox will decide when it’s time for him to go, we’ve probably got years and years more of this superego hee-hawing all over this blog.

Throw in Nathan’s rantings and total inability to follow an argument that anyone but he is making, and it almost saps one’s will to blog.

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

Robert, these were guys with the other team, not Braves. One is a scout who had a long major league playing career, none of it playing under Cox, but many games against him.

He said in his opinion, Cox was certainly the biggest reason for the Braves’ sustained success. Just telling you what I’m told.

Again, you want everyone to believe your views, but what makes you as qualified as those who played, coached, scouted or managed for and against Cox over the years? I’m just curious as to what makes your views, which are so different from theirs, right? Because if you’re right, all of them, virtually everyone in baseball, is wrong about Cox.

You’re prepared to say that, then? That you’re right and virtually everone else that keeps lauding Cox and giving him manager of the year awards, that they’re all wrong? All those opposing managers who don’t necessarily chum around with him (he doesn’t chum around with managers in the offseason, doesn’t do the rubber-chicken circuit like so many others) but respect him so much as a manager and think he’s one of the best, you think they’re all wrong?

OK, just tell me why everyone can be so wrong about someone, and why you’re so much more intuitive and smart in an area in which you’re not paid to have any expertise, like they are.

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

Si senor. Santa Ana, CA.

There’s a bar in Tustin that used to host the great Phil Shane. Did you ever get to see that man perform when you were out here? I love it. He’s a full on lounge singer. Just totally embraces it. He made it to the big show a few years back. Now he’s touring all ove the place. I try to make it out to see him when he comes to SoCal for a little tour. I’ve seen him a few times in Vegas. He’s something you just have to witness. One the best shows… a legend. He does this Elvis segment which is amazing. He’s about 5 feet tall.

Phil Shane

By Lucy, I'm Home

September 24, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

Who is Barney Pfife? How is “Pfife” pronounced? Does Barney Pfife play an infield position? What team? I once had a rhumba band of some renown but never played on top of a dugout. You score nine runs and give up ten -sad.

By Lew

September 24, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Nathan-I didn’t say anything about Andruw being worth $13.5 million, which is what he is making. I’m also not real concerned about whether or not he’ll walk after next year. My point was strictly that the Braves have enough money to field a team next year that will be competitive for the division and beyond, WITHOUT trading Andruw or Marcus, for that matter. Apparently JS thinks he has enough in that he resigned Wickman. Even with Wickman resigning, there should still be about $8 million left for arbitration raises and additional help, based on their current salary availability. JS is also quite capable of making deals that cost a minimum of minor league talent(Wicky) and somehow also manages to get the other team to foot part of the bill (Renteria and Hampton). A firesale, like some have advocated, is not necessary, nor is it advisable. The only thing we can’t afford, is paying outrageous prices for questionable talent like the Blue Jays did last winter. Besides, do you think the package the Red Sox offered was a.An equitable deal or b. worth doing? Ever since the proposed deal was released, their have been people just about in a state of ecstasy over Coco Crisp and a rookie pitcher. I would much rather have Andruw put up a walk away year and then leave, than trade him for that bunch of nothing. Do you really think that we will be offered a better deal?

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

Robert, your arguments are so weak, dude, I’ll stop now. Seriously, are you so arrogant that you believe you’ve got baseball figured out and all the people actually inside the game have agendas or just aren’t as bright as you? You think all the opposing teams _ players, scouts, etc _ are somehow smitten with Cox even if they have no connection to him?

Can you see how there would be no real base from which to argue with you then, because you sound like someone who would try to tell an electrical engineer how to do his job, even though I’m assuming you aren’t an electrical engineer. Or are you just a Renaissance man, Robert, who knows a bit more than everyone else about everything?

The arrogance … amazing. I defer to others in other fields outside of my own. You, you try to tell everyone what’s up in their field. You’d have baseball people believe Bobby Cox is a bad manager and has had little if anything to do with the Braves’ 14 division titles. I’m amazed, my man. You’re really out there on a limb by yourself. Enjoy.

Oh, and by the way, genius: Yes, in fact I would have alcoholics vote for the best bartender. Think about it.

Oh, wait, from your point of view, you’d probably have the amateur drinkers who party on St. Pat’s Day and New Year’s Eve, you’d have them vote for best bartender. I forgot who I was arguing with here. I’ve gotta turn logic upside down and approach it from your point of view. Don’t ask the experts, as the amateurs, right? Got it.

Oh, and by the way, Ozzie’s one of my favorite people in baseball. I got to know him very well when he was a coach with the Marlins, and I get along great with him. I’d love to cover a team he manages.

You rank amateur.

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

Lew: You might also point out that the Deal with the Red Sox, two of the players are now on the DL.

GO BRAVES
McCann is awesome. And Diaz is showing up. Andruw with another RBI. This is how to do it. Chuck James… Keep this lead. Don’t let it go. Let’s win this tonight.
GO BRAVES
WAY TO GO GILES! What a play!

By Duncan Phyfe

September 24, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

I can’t say for sure who Barney Pfife is but I want to say that the Phyfe name is correctly spelled Phyfe. I saw it inscribed in an old cabinet and know it is true. I think Barney Pfife used to play for the Brewers but the famous deputy sheriff Barney was a Fife. Like Desi says, “If you have fife and add one more you have sicks”. The pitcher can get no one out and Francoeur makes an out on three pitches.

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, I think I’ve heard of Phil Shane but definitely haven’t seen him. Sounds like a blast. Definitely sounds more fun that arguing with Robert.

How ‘bout this kid starting for Colorado today? Makes his major league debut and walks the first three guys, then hits Andruw, then gives up a grand slam to McCann. That’s as bad as it can possibly get.

They have 70 home runs in their lineup today (70 this season), including only one guy with more than 15, Matt Holliday (31). Even Helton has only 15.

Braves have 169 homers in their lineup today, including five guys with more than 20. Andruw and LaRoche have 70 by themselves.

Just goes to show, once again, that homers and offense aren’t nearly enough if you don’t have consistent pitching.

By Bob, journalist

September 24, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

David O’B, howcome you can say it so much better than I? Truth’s truth so I’l just sit back and enjoy!

By nathan

September 24, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul

I have NO hatred for Andruw. DID YOU NOT READ THE POST WHERE I SAID HE IS PROBABLY WORTH EVERY PENNY (believe me - he will make MORE than 15 million annually on his next deal), BUT POSSIBLY NOT WORTH IT FOR THE BRAVES TO SPEND THE MONEY ON HIM.

If you haven’t noticed Here are the “stats” on our Young Guys.

McCann: 21 HR & 85 RBI

Francoeur: 26 HR & 99 RBI

LaRoche: 31 HR & 89 RBI

HITTING IS NOT OUR PROBLEM, nor will it BE OUR PROBLEM NEXT YEAR!

I love Andruw Jones. My hatered and disdain is for people that DON’T UNDERSTAND that we might not have a choice but to move this guy! My hatered and disdain is for people that DON’T UNDERSTAND that if we used the money “ear-marked” for Andruw on Pitching (whether it’s from trades or free agency) We might actually be a BETTER TEAM!!!!

Don’t accuse me of hating Andruw Jones. I’m not spewing stats of his post-season failures out of hatered. I’m spewing them out becaus Tom A. Hawk seems to think that Andruw should be compaired along the lines of Reggie Jackson. Go ahead (for those of you old enough to remember) “Andruw-Bar” or “Andruw-Vision” just don’t have the same ring to them, do they? LOL!

Andruw is a GREAT player. Probably going to the HOF. But I will crap myself, the day he and he alone shines bright enough under the October microscope to carry his team (The Braves or any other) to a WS victory. It aint gonna happen until he learns to HIT. Not just mash!

Teams playing in October USUALLY have pretty good pitching. That’s a Fact. Those good pitchers usually go out of their way to not let the “big guys” beat them. See: 1991 & 1992. Braves vs. Pirates….BOND’S DID NOTHING! And steroids or NOT, your gonna be hard pressed to find many people that will say Andruw Jones is a better player or MORE CLUTCH than Barry Bonds.

I don’t hate the man. Just calling it like I see it. Sorry Dude.

By Robert

September 24, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

“OK, just tell me why everyone can be so wrong about someone”

1)He got to manage some great teams that were going to win a bunch of games no matter what - big head start

2)He gets good press from y’all in the media - same way as Bonds never catches a break (and I dont want to argue Bonds here) Cox always catches one

3)Once those big precedents are set - there’s a lot of “me too” - “monkey see monkey do”

Somewhere it got started that Cox is great and now 14 division titles make that obvious and everyone nods their head up and down and agrees

I am not saying I am smarter than people in baseball.

But you know what Dave - sometimes being removed from things, being removed from the assumptions and biases that have been worked into place for 15 years - can give one a view with more clarity -

Here’s what I am saying - If you buy in to the party line and assume that 14 division titles proves genius managing, then you’ll never analyze it further

But start from the outside, away from all that

1)Did the Braves have one of the best long time rotations in the history of the game from 1991 to about 2003? - Yes

2)Did the Braves also have solid everyday players, a front office that was fairly shrew, and at least average money to spend during the same time? (Not to mention they were a leader in payroll for much of the mid-late 90’s) - YES

3)On the WHOLE, did those rosters, especially the pitchers, have an exceptional run of good health during the same time? - YES

4)Was the league as a whole, due to expansion and the trends in modern sports, somewhat watered down? - YES

5)Was the overall quality of playoff teams somewhat diminished by the addition of a wild card team in each league? - YES

6)Due to 4 and 5, was it therefore easier to make the playoffs in any given year than in previous eras? and was the quality of the average playoff team below that of what it would have been without wild cards? - YES and YES

7)Did the Braves, in at LEAST 12 of those 14 years - constitute an above average playoff team? - YES

Now - why then, did they so consistantly and persistantly underachieve when it came to crunch time?

If you do that thinking, and ignore the bias of the insiders, you HAVE to start and look at the man moving the pieces on the battlefield

If you dont, you are keeping the blinders on and playing monkey see monkey do with the rest of the baseball establishment

By Inquiring Mind

September 24, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

Does DOB think Robert is “Stinky”? Why else would DOB describe Robert as “rank”? Rank means stink, right? All this name calling must stop. Kumbaya my friend, Kumbaya. Robert is not Stinky, SDA, or the others. Someone has been undercover for the past few days and will soon have much to reveal about the identities of the vulgar one. Kumbaya.

By Robert

September 24, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Rank amateur - thank you

I bet you’re buddies with Saraceno and Ringolsby

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Sheeesh! McCann almost had another. That’d be one helluva game. 2innings, 2 HR, 7RBIs. Well, there’s still 7 more innings to go.

Hold ‘em Chuck!

DOB: Terrible first outing. They kept his first K. But I wonder if he’d rather forget the entire inning

By Robert

September 24, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

Dave - I am quite disappointed. You call me arrogant, but you have just basically given me the Moneyball treatment - how dare I even think that I could know anything or figure anything about the game when all the geniuses who have done it all their lives agree

I’m not smarter than the guys on the inside in baseball. I just am in a position to pause and ask - “wait a minute”

As for the manager of the year awards - Here’s a bet for you - 50 years from now, the baseball books will be calling them the folly of the century

By Robert

September 24, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Think about those Manager of the Year Awards for a minute

The opposing teams are not there to laud you, or to respect you, or to fawn on you with praise. Their only goal, day in and day out, is to kick your behind - by hook, crook, or steroid creme

Let’s say you have a team that has to play or might have to play the Braves.

Man for man, the Braves are better than you

However, you can run circles around their manager in your sleep

What’s your best chance of beating this team on any kind of regular basis?

Answer - make sure that they dont go out and get a manager that has a clue

How do you help make sure they keep their manager?

Make them think they’ve got something by voting for him for Manager of the Year

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

nathan: Glad to see some good stuff about Andruw in your post

GO JAMES

But I’m not sold on the idea that we have to trade him. We have the money to keep him and be competitive. If you really want to free up money for pitching, make that good/great pitching, push for moving Hudson. That’s 13 million ear-marked that could be better spent.
Besides, letting him walk means we free up that money for pitching (trade/free agency).

But you’re point was on the lines of we might not have a choice but to move this guy! So it would stand to reason that might be able to keep him. I suppose the glass is half full from where I’m standing and I’d rather talk about that. JS will make the final ruling on the matter. We’ll just have to wait and see. But I don’t think the sky is falling because Andruw might have to be moved, or might not have to be moved. And based on Andruws past, I’d say there’s a shot of keeping him, but I’m will to wait and see. I’ll agree to disagree if I must. I don’t think it’s that urgent to ship off Andruw.

NICE JAMES. Great Sacrifice. Gittum In Giles!
Dangit Giles.

By Robert

September 24, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

What was it someone said - like stone mountain, there’s so much you dont see

well, my bet is that the rockies scouts, the denver writers, and everyone else, when they arent talking to the Braves or to the Braves press - there’s a lot we dont see

Like them laughing their behinds off that the Braves still have Eeyore as manager

Ask Mr Jeter how much competitive pressure he feels from the Braves. Provided the four rings he is wearing dont weight him down so much, he’ll tell you (like he said his opinion of David Ortiz)

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

Lost a step MY @SS! WAY TO GO ANDRUW!

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

What the hell do the opinions of a bunch of scouts mean? Those f*** don’t plunk down their hard earned cash to watch a bunch of chokers lay down like fast women on Friday night. Those guys are part of an industry and they aren’t gonna go on the record saying that Cox is lacking in any meaningful way. And ditto his players.

And fans are not the only ones questioning Bobby’s methods. As early as 1991, on ESPN’s “The Sports Reporters”, panelists opined about Bobby Cox being a dumb manager. Fox analysts have picked up on it as well, citing Cox’s dislike of the extra round of playoffs and the need for him to find a way to win.

And now, after 14 consecutive years of making the playoffs, Bobby Cox finds himself on the outside looking in on the playoffs, thankful for that strike shortened, fluke of a season when Glavine still had some gas in the tank, but still clueless as to what it takes to really consolodate all those little victories into a statement of greatness.

Be a Cox Apologist. But anywhere else, Bobby doesn’t have the juice to still be manager.

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

What a shot! WAY TO GO CHIPPER!

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

Cox’s dislike of the extra round of playoffs

I don’t think Cox is alone on that. It doesn’t determine the division winner, why is it called the Division Series? It’s there only for money.

WAY TO GO McCANN!!!

By nathan

September 24, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

* TennesseePaul *

Not a problem, dude! I ALWAYS enjoy discussing this (among other topics) with you.

Here is the easiest way to explain my thoughts in general.

I LOVE THE NAME OF THE TEAM ON FRONT OF THE JERSEY, NOT THE LAST NAME ON THE BACK OF IT.

I like everybody else, have my “favorite” players, and players on other teams that I dislike, but love to watch, you know, the ones who make you “crave” every minute of baseball I can get my eyes, and ears on.

Is Andruw one of these players? Sure. So was Glavine, so was Maddux. My ALL TIME FAVORITE braves player was Dale Murphy. Not anything special about his game that makes him any better than Chipper or Andruw or ANY OTHER player to “wear a braves uniform”. He just happened to be the Face of the Braves when I was at an age where I was beginning to understand and begin my love affair with the greatest game in the world. My favorit pitcher to where the uniform has got to be Smoltz. But I’d be lying to you if I said that I thought Steve Avery wasn’t going to the HOF 15 years ago. That kid could BRING IT!

I don’t want to see the Braves payroll, sky-rocket like the Yankees or Red Sox. I’d like to keep it reasonable, and continue to do what the Braves have always done. Scout, Draft, Sign and Develop young players either to bring up to play or to be used as trade bait for other players.

Would it be nice to watch players END their career where it started? ABSOLUTELY. But we can’t do that with ALL OF THEM, can we? JS has to “pick and choose” who fits in with what his plan is. Short term and Long term. I’m ALL for young players taking over for aging players. Even if the older player still has good years ahead of them. What if the JS would have kept Julio and kept LaRoche on the bench this year? You gotta let the kids play at some time!

Hope that clarifies my thoughts for you.

Go Braves!

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

Paul, without that extra round of playoffs, Cox wouldn’t have 14 consecutive “Division Championships”. You see, it takes 4 playoff teams to create that extra round. MLB designate 3 “Divisional Champions” and one “Wild Card” as the participants. That diluted “Division Championship” pennant is what every Cox Apologist likes to hang their hat on.

Are you a Cox Apologist, Paul?

By Bob, journalist

September 24, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Whether it’s Fife, Pfife, Phife or Phyfe … Barney would tell you that sometimes it’s best to keep your bullet in your pocket.

We may like neither the man nor his persona, but Bobby Cox is due our respect.

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

LMAO GREAT PLAY CHIPPER!!!!!!! So what we lost.

By Metropolitan Man

September 24, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

LMAO GREAT PLAY CHIPPER!!!!!!! So what we lost.

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

Colorado. what a frickin place. I heard them speak of the humidor

WAY TO GO RENTERIA!!!!

And there they mention it again. Why complain about the use of it? It’d be a valid point if the Umps were in on it and handed out the

WAY TO GO CHIPPER

dry fast moving balls to the oppenent and the humid slow moving balls to the home team.
Basically, it’s a level playing field. Both teams get the benefit. Only reason any team would complain is because now they have another challenger in the league. Before it was a given the Rockies had no chance.

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

MetsMan are you watching the game on TBS as well?

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Good points, Stinky. A thoughtful, reasoned response. Fine job.

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB. Where are you and Bravo Nam registered?

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Oh, and Stinky (god I feel stupid addressing a person as Stinky), I’m not apologizing for anything Cox has done. I was merely relating a pregame discussion with a Rockies scout and a couple of Denver writers, to give you some idea perhaps of how Cox is perceived outside of Atlanta. You don’t give it any credence, that’s fine by me.

And as far as not having the “juice” to remain manager anywhere else, I’ll remind you that me and other AJC writers had nothing to do with him being the two-time NL Manager of the Year, since we can’t vote because of the paper’s policy. Blame all those writers in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and everywhere else, since last year Cox was an almost unanimous choice for the award.

Of course, those NY writers, and Chicago, and LA, and Houston, etc., they don’t have the non-partial view that ol’ Stinky has. Or Robert.

Your friend, Poopy.

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

Interesting… Skip I think it was, mentioned what he called “the damage ratio” for that kid Baker. So I checked a few ratios..
A Jones: 0.66
C Jones: 0.61
Francoeur: .60

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

Apology accepted, DOB. Glad you see it my way. We both know that the national media is controlled by New York. And New York does everything possible to keep Southerners down.

And, DOB, as a friend, I’ve got to advise you against encouraging twinkle-toed POCO lovers from polluting this blog with sappy poetry that even adolescent heterosexual males would be asshamed of claiming in the middle of a b***** from the bimbo that they wrote it to.

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

And DOB, What does Manager of the Year mean anyway? Its kind of like the “Miss Congeniality” award that some flatchested girl with big teeth from Idaho gets because she helped sweep up the floor after she got eliminated in the swimsuit competition. Did Bobby get a ring that replaced his WS ring for being “Manager of the Year”?

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Yates… I think we need to look for a reliable set up man this offseason as well as a starter.

By Bob, journalist

September 24, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

10 Paul, we never know when our comments will have an impact … had it not been for your “What a shot! WAY TO GO CHIPPER!”, I would have missed the entire game and not just the first half … thanks!

Well, maybe it would have been beter not to watch fastballs thrown down the middle.

Robert and I share more than the name, or so it may seem … however there is a slight difference between knowing a few of the questions and having all the answers.

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

We need pitching

By Manilow

September 24, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this

I was pleased to sing the song written by BravoNam in the tub this afternoon. When you place your head underwater the chorus comes out great! This song remained in my head for a time and then as I scanned the blog I saw the famous Dry Bones song and it has been with me ever since. Speaking of Dry Bones, you score 8 runs and give up 9. You take a 7-run lead and turn it into a loss. This was not the year. There have been some bright spots - some individual bright spots - but this team never got it together. Speaking of not having the string pulled tight, Stinky is back as Stinky. Oh, the stench! And where is journalist jimmy smith? Will the real jimmy smith be back soon? Only the hartebeest knows and the hartebeest ain’t telling. Journalist Bob, it is also wise to keep a fife in your pocket. Learning a lot about fifes today.

By glembo

September 24, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this

Andruw looked good today. He seems to finally have shaken off the effects of sliding over that bat earlier in the season. I’d still like to get my hands on that bat. Does anyone know Andruw and could you ask? DOB? Other than that, I’m just plain uninformed so I will blog no more today - at least as glembo.

By The Grinch

September 24, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this

Howdy, All! Got a hsck of a thunderstorm going on here. Bob, I heard (and this isn’t a joke) from several different sources that Don Knotts was a decorated sniper in WWII. Do you know anything about this? If that’s true, he probably would’ve only needed that one bullet in Mayberry. :-)

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

Jenny Smith better watch out. I’m mostly sober today. The Horror!! The Horror!! Or, The Bullpen!! The Bullpen!!

By TennesseePaul

September 24, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

Betemit Under Cox in 2006:
_AB _R _H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVE
199 30 56 16 — 09 029 19 57 .281
Betemit Under Not-Cox in 2006:
_AB _R _H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVE
152 16 36 06 — 08 020 14 40 .237

Aybar Under Cox in 2006:
_AB _R _H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVE
105 14 31 05 — — 007 06 17 .295
Aybar Under Not-Cox in 2006:
_AB _R _H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVE
128 15 32 12 — 03 022 18 17 .250

What’s to appologize for?

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

Jenny, It takes about twenty minutes under water to get the sound just right. Try it.

By Bob, journalist

September 24, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this

10 Paul, master of the understatement, as per usual … that’s one answer of which there is no question.

I could never figure out if the late John Candy was acting or just being himself … In the movie currently being shown on TBS, he asks “do the words ‘give up’ mean anything to you?” to which the answer was “nothing!” or words to that effect.

You have to admit that it sounds a lot like our own Tennessee Paul … who’s helped us see the best in our team and ourselves throughout the season. If you want to be a good baseball fan, Paul’s not a bad role model to emulate … in fact, my unsolicitated opinion is that he’s as good as it gets.

While I don’t always understand or agree with Nathan’s posts, there’s more than a word or two of wisdom in his 04:20 PM post.

Where’s The Grinch?!

By robdawg06

September 24, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Can JS explain why Tyler Yates,Ken Ray,and Todd Pratt even wear Braves uniforms ? Yates looks like Terry Mulholland and pitches like him too. ‘Here ya go, a homerun served.” The bright spot can be next season. If Chipper,Davies,and Hampton return healthy all year and the Braves add another front line starter then they may compete in the NL East next year. Resigning Smoltz & Wickman was huge. Can we get a new manager too ? Don’t ask me who. Just somebody else that has FIRE.

By NLCHAMPS

September 24, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this

Did the braves clinch a spot yet? Maybe DOB would write another commentary to amuse you while you figure out how all your predictions about the Mets were wrong.

By JJMB

September 24, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see someone like Girardi replace Cox. Face it, Cox protagonists, Bobby is an old 65. The prodigious gut will kill him sooner, not later.

I don’t hate Cox, but he has cost playoff and WS wins due to loyalty to his favorites. Thinking back on this year, I recall a very loyal Cox trotting Reitsma out game after game after game. Loss after loss after loss. And his loyalty to Giles. Game after game of 0-fer’s at the top of the lineup.

Now I don’t expect DOB to go in the clubhouse and ask the embarrassing questions. He doesn’t want to lose his job by appearring rude. I doubt the AJC would want that. Atlanta is a cover up town. Hell, you can have a mass murder at the downtown courthouse, and the AJC afraid to print the Sheriff is incompetent. A murder almost everyday, and the local media is afraid to give a description of the murderer. Don’t print it.. shhhhhhh

Lithonia???? Someone would actually admit they live in that shythole. Thats funny, really funny.

By Robert

September 24, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

“Robert and I share more than the name, or so it may seem … however there is a slight difference between knowing a few of the questions and having all the answers. “

I dont know anywhere near ALL the answers. But making the Braves competative again is as simple as ABC

(Anybody but Cox)

The grand slam, then two hitters later the hit batsman, and STILL Davies is out there

I guess Donk had his money on the Rockies and the over

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this

Charlie Liebrandt.

By Bob, journalist

September 24, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

Grinch, better thee than me with regard to the storms … we’ve had much worse in the way of electrical storms but certainly the rain torrents of the last two days have provided moments of anxiety.

I doubt that Don Knotts was a WWII sniper but do understand that he received more than one bronze star. A favorite of my father and a friend of my uncle … it is he that taught me to laugh at myself. Though I’m not really a fan of slapstick, I’m a sucker for subtle comedy and he was pastmaster at combining the two … though most saw only the slapstick.

Though I’ve never been a deputy and don’t carry a bullet in my pocket, I have been referred to as Barney Fife on more than one occassion, usually by friends who know me quite well.

Mind triggers … some of today’s posts remind me that it is only the well prepared student who recognizes the difficulty of the examination.

By Stinky

September 24, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

The only thing that Cox knows about pitching is that he can’t hit it. (With all apologies to Jim Palmer and Earl Weaver and Sigourney Weaver.)

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

Robert, I don’t know Saraceno. I’m good friends with Tracy Ringolsby, but he wasn’t here today. Did the first couple games of the series. He was at a U. of Wyoming football game today, as a fan. He lives in Cheyenne.

By WorstBloggerEver

September 24, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this

Robert: Get your head out of you’re @ss. The grand slam, then two hitters later the hit batsman, and STILL Davies is out there.. At least he’s not so d@mn ignorant he doesn’t know who’s pitching. It was Chuck James B!tch.

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

Here’s one area where Bobby’s loyalty to players has worked against said player and the Braves, in my opinion: Frenchy playing every day. Not just playing, but starting every day. Why? Simply because Francoeur wants to do it, Cox tells us when we ask.

For the love of god, could he not at least have the kid pinch-hit one game or two once in a while, not play all nine innings. Or come in for late-innings defense once in a while. Anything to give him a rest, and he’d still get to say he played all 162 games. Years from now, no one will care whether he started all 162, they’ll just say he played them all.

Anyway, Francoeur looks tired and his average is down to .258 with a .290 on-base percentage after a 4-for-28 trip including 2-for-18 in Colorado. That’s just not good.

Also, just FYI, Chuck James was 0-1 with a 10.61 ERA in two starts on the trip, after going 6-0 with a 1.70 ERA in his previous eight starts….

And how crazy is this: Andruw Jones has 31 homers and 105 RBIs in 422 at-bats vs. right-handers (second most RBIs to Pujols vs. righties), and eight homers and only 18 RBIs in 121 at-bats vs. lefties. Was hitting .240 off lefties.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this

Good to see another great offensive explosion only to have it wasted away by the bullpen. Can someone explain to me why time after time Tyler Yates instead of Chad Parronto gets sent out to the mound as the setup guy only give up a walk and then a homerun. I just don’t get it.

This next week can’t go by fast enough. Its time for the offseason to begin. I swear if Tyler Yates, Ken Ray, or Chris Reitsma is on this team next year I will jump off of a bridge.

It is moronic moves like having Yates on the mound in the 8th inning that encourage people like Robert to express their never ending disgust with Cox. Its moves like that that make you think maybe he is right. I said maybe. Robert, you’re not.

By Rosalynn

September 24, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

Jimma says that Bobba Cox is the best manager in baseball - either league. Jimma says Bobba Cox reminds him a lot of Jimma himself. Bobba Cox has one WS and Jimma had one term. Sometimes when Jimma and I go to the games we will share a few minutes with Bobba Cox before the game. When we get back to our seats, Jimma will have the Secret Service bring over those little towelettes and we can police ourselves for that sticky residue you sometimes pick up around the dugout. I wonda what causes that? It is so Stinky, I mean sticky.

By BB FAN

September 24, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this

Robert

First of all, about the Andruw Jones Gold Club comment: give me a break, he was 19 years old. Everybody has done something completely wrong in their life, especially at 19. And Andruw has not had any controversy since that one incident.

I am a huge fan of Bobby Cox and I believe he is one of the all-time best managers in the game. Now, after saying that, I will admit that he has made numerous errors in numerous games. However, he has made a lot more brilliant calls in many more games.

It’s true that the Braves have had some very good teams over the last 15 years and COx has had that benefit. All great managers have had the benefit of fielding great teams. And every player, coach and manager that is asked thinks Cox is a great manager. There have been multiple years the Braves had no business winning the division during the last 15 years, but because of COx, they did.

I have no idea who you are, but I will guess that you are not a former or current MLB coach, player or manager, and therefore do not know the game as well as you might think you do.

I will agree with you on the ‘99 WS game 1. Maddux should not have gone out in the 8th. Remlinger was awesome that year in the 8th inning then Rocker was actually a great closer that year. And if I remember right, I believe Maddux had given up like 3 walks (unusual for him) and 7 or 8 hits already. But Cox is human and I’ll excuse him for the few mistakes he has made.

Cox was not Lonnie Smith when he got tricked by Knoblauch rounding 2nd. Smityh should have scored on the hit. The Braves ended up losing the game 1-0 in the 10th inning. And Cox was not Wohlers when Wohlers threw a sklider that didn’t slide. Lehritz hit that pitch into orbit for a 3 run homer. Those two plays would have given the Braves 2 more WS rings. But COx was not to blame for either one.

Bobby COx is a great manager and will be in the Hall of Fame one day.

By tyyosh

September 24, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this

Well, it is finally here. On Tuesday, we will watch the first Braves game without any kind of possible championship implications since October 3, 1990. 1990! I am taking my son this weekend so that he can see that you can still enjoy baseball anyway.

As a fan who grew up in Atlanta knowing only the suffering of the 70’s and 80’s, I want to express my deepest admiration and appreciation to John Schuerholz and the Braves for 16 really, really fun years. What a great ride which I could have never imagined being privileged to experience.

I believe the pain of this season is going to make everyone hungry and aggressive again. You can already see how JS starting to re-think and change. I look forward to 2007 to see how this organization and team come back with a vengeance.

By JJMB

September 24, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

Bonds is going to break Aaron’s record next year. Barring a plane/car crash, a disgruntled girlfriend shooting him, or jail (not going to happen), he’s going to break the record next year. I used to care, but I don’t anymore.

Bonds is a cheat, but no one has to balls to call him on it.

If only Bart Giamatti had lived (another prodigious gut). Bart had the balls to waylay the crooked Rose, and he would have handled Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Palmiero, etc.

In my mind, a dour, resentful Aaron is exchanged for crooked, recalcitrant Bonds.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

My frustration with Cox’s late inning bullpen decisions aside, the guy is one of the best managers to ever live. Robert, you’re entitled to your opinion but I think you are flat out wrong. Your hatred or contempt as you refer to it for him has blinded you to reality. Does he make some stupid decisions? Yes. But so does every other manager. Torre, LaRussa, Guillen, and Sciosica (sp?) have all made really dumb decisons. It doesn’t make them bad managers.

Dude, you are always on here blathering on about how bad Cox is. Who do you propose replace him? I have never once heard you offer a suggestion for a replacement. You sound like the politician who can tell you all the bad things his opponent has done but can’t tell you ONE thing he will do to make things better.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 24, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

DOB, what do you think of Matt Holliday. He will be a free agent this year and it is apparent he won’t be returning to Colorado. If Andruw is traded, what do you think of him as a possible replacement in the lineup?

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

I don’t know who had a rougher day, James, Yates or Robert. Wow, talk about a thorough thrashing….

JJMB, where have you been the past few years if you actually are serious about nobody having “the balls” to call Bonds a cheat. Uh, do a google search for stories, columns and assorted books on Bonds being a steroids user.

Or maybe you missed the latest development, about the two San Francisco Chronicle reporters who are about to go to jail for not ratting out their sources for the book they wrote documenting in exhaustive detail Bonds’ use of a vast assortment of steroids over the past 6-7 years?

Who are you waiting for to “call out” Bonds for using ‘roids? Since he hasn’t actually failed a drug test, MLB can’t suspend the guy, you know? Or do you propose they just suspend him and then get sued until the end of time?

Please think before you post next time.

By NorthernFan

September 24, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

I ask this question in all seriousness, but don’t you think you have to say that—especially after today’s implosion—this Braves team quit on the season? They never mounted a run, won’t make .500, and were never in serious contention for the division or the wild card. Meanwhile, a team like Philadelphia—supposedly left for dead—comes together to play its best baseball late in the season. Face it—the Braves threw in the towel.

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

Free agent? Matt Holliday is only finishing his third season in the majors. He’s got three more years before he’s a free agent.

By NorthernFan

September 24, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

I ask this question in all seriousness, but don’t you think you have to say that—especially after today’s implosion—this Braves team quit on the season? They never mounted a run, won’t make .500, and were never in serious contention for the division or the wild card. Meanwhile, a team like Philadelphia—supposedly left for dead—comes together to play its best baseball late in the season. Face it—the Braves threw in the towel.

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this

Robert (JIB), I wasn’t talking about you having a bad day, just to be clear. It was the other one, the reasonable, open-minded one (he says, rolling his eyes).

By JJMB

September 24, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

uh, Dave, I was referring to the Commissioner’s office, if you didn’t grasp the inference to Giamatti. Someone that would/could suspend him or kick him out of baseball. Someone that could order drug tests for him. Not a couple of brave reporters doing Selig’s job for him.

Please think before attacking me, homeboy…

By Dave

September 24, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

Good grief, folks. Andruw’s going to ring up 600-700 home runs and an equally awesome number of RBIs and runs scored when he goes into the Hall. Oh, and he’s only the best defensive outfielder I’ve seen since I started watching joltin Joe and his brother Dom in 1948 which probably makes him the best ever. Cut AJ a little slack, if Smoltz had grown up on the beach of a caribbean island he’d be a whole lot more laid back too.

One last thought. Ozzie rightly gets into to Hall with his amazing glove and a very modest stick, to be charitable. AJ is the closest thing you’ll ever see to Ozzie in the outfield and now consider his offense before you pan him for “if only…”

By fastfoodfreak

September 24, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this

pitching… pitching…pitching…. can’t win without it. If anything, the Braves should be complimented for winning as many games as they have… not sure Cox had much to work with.. hard to blame him

By David O'Brien

September 24, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this

JJMB, he’s taken drug tests. And he can’t be ordered to take more drug tests than others until he fails one. This isn’t the Olympics; this is a sport with the strongest union in the entire world, bar none. If the commissioner had the power to order Bonds to take more drug tests, he would, because they’d all like nothing more then to get rid of him and keep Hank’s record in place. Trust me on that one.

And nobody attacked you. Jeez, I get attacked all day, and if I whined as much as some of you when I get criticized or ridiculed, I’d never answer any questions and wouldn’t respond after the initial post.

By the way, Dave above, good post. And good line about Smoltz and the beach.

By Carolina Lady

September 24, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

Y’all have apparently spent the entire day trying to reason with an unreasonable person. That is an impossible task. Why continue on that treadmill?? Johnny-One-Note will keep blowing his horn as long as he can get anyone’s response. Booooring. Those bashing Cox and AJ are obviously out in orbit somewhere. Rational people simply know better.

By Georgetown Kid

September 24, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this

Dave,

I disagree with you, regarding Andruw’s final numbers.

As much as I love him, I think Andruw will experience a comparable early-30s decline as Dale Murphy and Mickey Mantle.

His injuries, patella tendinitis and back pain, are not problems that improve with age. And while he is only 29, he has a full decade of mileage on his body, and is definitely starting to creak.

However, I was encouraged by Dave O’Brien’s report that Andruw plans on loosing 15 lbs this offseason. While I doubt he will regain lost speed at his age, a slimmer waste line will hopefully extend his career.

By JJMB

September 24, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this

“Please think” isn’t an attack? Well maybe it isn’t. I “think” about Rick Rielly getting tough with Sammy Sosa. That was something.

Bonds gains 50+ lbs of muscle in his mid to late 30’s? Ahh, who the hell cares anymore.

By David O'Brien

September 25, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this

I care. I think it’s a travesty that Bonds is probably going to break Hank’s records. But I’m not a columnist, so I can’t write it in a straight news story. And a lot of other people care, but you can’t just throw the guy out because every sign points to his having cheated. There has be proof in the form of a failed drug test (and there is no test for human growth hormone). Suspicion, however strong, isn’t enough to kick a guy out of baseball. I wish it were.

Until he’s found guilty of tax evasion or perjury and tossed behind bars or suspended by baseball for that or a failed test, there’s nothing they can do to keep him from pursuing Hank’s record. But the cloud of suspicion will be over him forever, and he’s forever tainted, whether he’s ever busted or not.

By JJMB

September 25, 2006 12:27 AM | Link to this

Yeah Dave, The “tests” haven’t caught him. Probably won’t due to the masking of androgens, and no test for HGH right now. Still, blood could be harvested for testing in the future, when tests are available to detect the presently undetectable.

Back to Pete Rose for a second. Bart had enough information to throw him out. Was it enough to bring Rose to trail for a crime? I’m asking you. As I recall, it wasn’t.

By Bob, journalist

September 25, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this

Tyyosh, here here!!

JJMB, Recalcitrant is a wonderful word and certainly appropriate but I like cheater better!

I applaud your words but not “your no longer caring”.

I guess that I’m of the minority agreeing with Mr. Frick that the length of the season is relevant when recognizing single season records … methinks that he too would have found cheating to be despicable and would have felt even more strongly about identifying the records of suspected cheaters than he did the one of Mr. Maris.

Regarding messrs Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Palmiero, et alii (the list of suspected cheaters is shamefully long), I do know this much … the notion that one is innocent until proven guilty is as naive as it is noble.

One is guilty as of the moment of the deed, regardless of evidence or provability. If they cheated, then they’re cheaters … if they didn’t, they’re not … it’s as simple as that.

I personally feel that there are many whose actions strongly bespeak guilt and while I doubt anything meaningful will be done, it will always be upsetting when records honorably acheived are replaced by ones that most likely were not.

By JJMB

September 25, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this

Bob, “One is guilty as of the moment of the deed, regardless of evidence or provability. If they cheated, then they’re cheaters … if they didn’t, they’re not … it’s as simple as that.”

Beautiful words, sir. As a fellow Jacket, I would expect nothing less.

By Head Coach

September 25, 2006 01:10 AM | Link to this

I’m just numb , totally. I knew it was over in May and I still cant accept it. I just cant think of anything positive at the moment. If I werent at work I would be seriously drunk right now.

By Calvin

September 25, 2006 01:26 AM | Link to this

Ok Mr. O’Brien,

Now that the Bravos have been officially eliminated from a playoff birth, what do you see happening in the off-season? They already signed Wickman and got the option on Smoltz so it is a good start. The bullpen has to be addressed and perhaps a proven starter. I am sure all of what I just said is stating the obvious but I would like to know your thoughts.

By The Grinch

September 25, 2006 01:38 AM | Link to this

Howdy, All; storm’s over. Don’t even have a tree on my house. Just thought I’d make a comment or two before going to bed. Question first: Someone earlier made a jab at AJ for going to the Gold Club. Someone else defended him by saying something to the effect of “Aj was only 19; everyone does something completely wrong in their life at one point or another.” How is going to a strip club (at ANY legal age) doing something “completely wrong”? Are you people frightened by naked women? The only thing wrong about strip clubs is that they’re a complete waste of money. If he was cheating on his wife up in the VIP room that would be one thing (and STILL none of your/our business), but he wasn’t married. Good lord, people; get over it. This isn’t Victorian England.

Journalist Bob, like I said about Knotts it was only a rumour; thaks for the info. Interesting that some folks confuse the two of you; are you afraid of ghosts as well? :-) UGA scared me half to death Saturday, but that made the comeback all the more exciting. Good teams have a way of figuring out how to win even when they don’t have their best stuff. Too bad that isn’t the case with our Bravos this year. Next year that will be different. It disturbs me to hear that you know many UGA fans/illumni who consume pepsi by choice. Rank heresy! Pepsi isn’t fit for human consumption. The official drink of Mets fans. Good night, all….

By Tom A. Hawk

September 25, 2006 01:44 AM | Link to this

There’s a simple way to stop Bonds, a means the owners have used before. First, the Giants decline to exercise Bonds’ option for 2007. Then every other major league club declines to offer him a contract. Bonds will certainly sue Major League Baseball for collusion and probably win millions and millions of dollars in the settlement, but by the time the trial is over, he’ll be too old to hit the few couple dozen home runs he’ll need to catch Hank Aaron.

The integrity of the game should be well worth the cost. The owners certainly won’t have to shell out nearly as much money to one player as the $280 million they had to pay the first time they were found guilty of collusion.

It’s a bargain at any price to stop Bonds.

By Head Coach

September 25, 2006 02:48 AM | Link to this

Thats not necessary Tom A.Hawk. The other 29 teams want absolutely nothing to do with Bonds. It all comes down to whether the 27 principal owners of the Giants decide if they can turn a profit next season without Bonds. The obvious answer is no. If Bonds decides to come back at a far smaller salary than the 20 million he made this season they would be stupid not to take advantage of an historic opportunity. The Giants group ownership privately financed the building of SBC Park at a cost of $315 million. After sellling the naming rights for $50 million and raising about $90 million through personal seat licenses and corporate sponsorships , the Giants borrowed $175 million for construction. The team pays about $17 million annually to service that debt , and will so for the next 15 years for a total cost of $255 million. The Giants need Bonds next season for purely financial reasons just as much as Bonds needs to pass Henry Aaron purely to satisfy his own massive egotistical conceited desires.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 25, 2006 03:18 AM | Link to this

Oh, well, Coach. A guy can dream, can’t he?

Maybe Bud Selig can secretly agree to subsidize the revenue the Giants will lose for honorably dropping Bonds?

If not, I’ll just go back to hoping against hope for a devastating, career-ending injury for Barry.

Where’s Jeff Gilooly when we need him?

By Bob, journalist

September 25, 2006 05:18 AM | Link to this

Grinch, I don’t know much about heresy and our views on dens of iniquity appear quite different, but Pepsi is the choice of the indiscriminate.

If the truth be known, a bunch of Communists, fearful after many failed attempts to steal the formula for Coca-Cola, substituted Dr. Caldwell’s Syrup of Pepsin for the missing secret ingredients … and Pepsi Cola was born! I’m told that years later, President Reagan introduced Mikhail Gorbachev to the “Real Thing”, causing him to take more than one refreshing pause to ponder and ultimately leading to the end the Cold War; destruction of the Berlin Wall and collapse of the Soviet Union.

Suspicion of drinking Pepsi or of cheating, however strong, may not be enough to kick a guy out of baseball, but one would think that anyone engaging in outrageous and unbecoming conduct could be expelled on the grounds that his continued participation was not in the best interests of the sport! Say it ain’t so, Joe!

By dadgum

September 25, 2006 08:08 AM | Link to this

There will always be an asterik by Bonds’ name either real or imagined should he break Aaron’s record. He will continue to be shredded by the media and fans regardless. Basically he is a liar and maybe the most hated player to ever suit up since Ty Cobb. Aaron has taken the classy route in answering questions about Bonds. A penny for your private thoughts Hank!

As for Cox just a quick weighin. Cox gets his manager of the year awards justly and certainly gets the longevity and consistent award. If the players don’t perform on the big stage it isn’t the managers fault. Trotting Farnsworth out for two innings last year in Houston was simply a bad Cox move. Call it hindsight but it was at the time too. By and large time will credit Cox for a job well done but it could have been better had the players performed better.

By Robert

September 25, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this

“However, he (Bobby Cox) has made a lot more brilliant calls in many more games.”

Name ONE.

The only brilliant move I have EVER seen Cox do, the one trick he has in his managerial repetoire that maximizes his team’s chances of winning any given ballgame, is to throw a donkey sized tantrum and get ejected before the first pitch

By Shaun

September 25, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this

I know it matters whether Bonds breaks the homerun record, but does it really mean that much? I mean, obviously Bonds is a great player but everyone knows his high homerun total is due to chemical help and the era in which he played. And I think historians will take all that into account. Just like they take into account Babe Ruth’s era and the fact that he was the first “modern” power hitter. Most intelligent baseball people agree Ruth was the best player of all time, even though most of his records have been broken.

By Robert

September 25, 2006 08:37 AM | Link to this

“Dude, you are always on here blathering on about how bad Cox is. Who do you propose replace him?”

Any perusing eukaryote

A seven year old with Down’s syndrome

The last carrot in that bag that’s been at the bottom of the crisper for four months

Take your pick

ANYBODY but Cox

By Robert

September 25, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

“Most intelligent baseball people agree Ruth was the best player of all time, even though most of his records have been broken.”

Let me guess - Intelligent baseball people are those that agree with you, right?

For what it’s worth - I think Ruth is probably the greatest, because he could pitch as well as hit.

Personally, I hate attempts to identify one single greatest anything in baseball. Talk about groups

Ruth, Williams, Cobb, Mays - take your pick

Johnson, Grove, Clemens, Koufax - take your pick

Bonds belongs in the upper tier of the HOF, no matter what (not saying steroids are right) - His status in the game doesnt depend on whether he hit 713, 715, 754, or 756 home runs. The absolute numbers are nice and will always have their place in lore, but as always, CONTEXT is needed to get the big picture

By Tony

September 25, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

This bashing Andruw Jones is getting so old, but what do you expect from white southerners. “Jeff Francouer could replace Andruw in center”, or “Langerhans could replace him”. Let’s get Holliday, he could replace him in the lineup. The guy is about to hit 40 HRs and drive in 120 runs, but Holliday can replace him. This is the best one…”Edmonds is a better centerfielder than Jones”….Any baseball player or manager…would tell you Jones is the best. Laughable and sad.

And Robert says: “He is not the brightest bulb in the box”

Name me one player on the Braves who is? Like Francouer, C. Jones and Giles are rocket scientist? And LaRoache a neuro-surgeon…get real.

By the way if you take A. Jones out of the lineup, the offense “ain’t” that good. Giles, Renteria, C. Jones, LaRoache, McCann, Francouer, Langerhans in center, and Thorman in Left and the pitcher…no one is worried about that lineup. Especially good pitching. Only if Renteria could be replace…let’s see by David Eckstein, then the Braves fan will have their dream an all-white lineup.

I hope they do trade Andruw, he doesn’t deserve the kind of fans down there in Hot-lanta….what a joke.

By Shaun

September 25, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

Robert,

Okay, most intelligent baseball historians/statisticians think Babe Ruth was the most productive player of all-time in terms of creating runs (preventing runs as a pitcher and some on defense).

It’s kindof difficult for a pitcher to make the impact of an everyday player. Even though a pitcher is more important, he still only plays every third, fourth or fifth day or either comes in basically every other day for one or two innings at most.

It’s estimated the best players are worth 30-40 wins in a season. So a pitcher would have to give his team a shot at winning in 30 starts to have a chance to hang with position players. Even pitchers in the “old days” like Walter Johnson started about 40 games at most.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 25, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this

this journalist has returned to the blog after completing an undercover assignment. much was revealed as you will learn later on. journalist now reclaims journalist’s identity from the ugly blogger who apprehended same from this blog. that blogger was an unworthy successor and has lost the opportunity to remain as journalist jimmy smith.

now, heart rendering … “I care. I think it’s a travesty that Bonds is probably going to break Hank’s records. But I’m not a columnist, so I can’t write it in a straight news story.” -DOB

this journalist once engineered a successful campaign to have dob named as winner of the wurlitzer. now, this journalist embarks on a campaign to have dob named as a sports columnist (will need to run a picture everyday with column - idea not yet fully developed). journalist has been in touch with several well-placed individuals at the atlanta newspapers to enlist their support in this endeavor. so far, no one has turned down this journalist. more later …

By Tom A. Hawk

September 25, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this

Robert’s 8:51 post: First in his last 1,347,588 that doesn’t bash Cox. Nice versatility, man!

Tony, playing the race card and making it seem plausible! Turning the racists’ words against them! I’m impressed!

Do you Andruw bashers really want to turn back the clock to 1946?

Seriously, though, if all you “trade Andruw for pitching” zealots actually get your way, you’d better get some damn fine pitching out of the deal, because you’re going to miss his power and defense something fierce.

Of course, since Andruw has to approve the trade, I don’t think you’ll get your wish anytime soon of watching Francoeur turn uncatchable singles to center into inside-the-park homers.

Embrace the race, rednecks!

By Shaun

September 25, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

Let me guess - Intelligent baseball people are those that agree with you, right?

Robert,

I’m talking about people who have done a lot of hard work and who are probably much smarter than I. People that have gone to great links to determine what contributes to wins and which players contribute most to winning. Most of them have found through their work that Ruth is the greatest player of all-time. That is, if you define greatest by whoever contributed the most wins to his teams. Maybe you define it some other way.

By High Fructose Corn Syrup

September 25, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

My favorite purveyor of HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP is Pepsi. The reason being that Pepsi sells more units internationally. But, I have to hand it to Coke, they sure have got the USA covered. As a cheep source of simple carbohydrates, I rival the carcinogens found in cigarette smoke for being the most expensive health threat in this country.
I just love idiots who champion products that hasten obesity and diabetes.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 25, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

Whenever I hear Smoltz interviewed, it’s immediately apparent he’s extremely eloquent and intelligent. It’s quite a juxtaposition to some of his on-the-field antics, such as screeching at the second-base umpire over a call the ump obviously had gotten correct. His competitive fire sometimes throws up a smokescreen that obscures his brain.

By Lew

September 25, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

Well-Wasn’t yesterday a day of mules, donkeys, horses rear ends (yes, I include myself) and one trick ponies? The only viable solution to the Bonds dilemma is a simple one. Walk the sucker. Every time he comes to bat-walk him. He may go into the record books for the most walks, but he will achieve nothing significant.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 25, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

Can’t walk him every time, Lew. That might help him to achieve the one goal he covets more than the home run record, perhaps — a World Series ring. That would be significant.

Aim for his right knee every pitch. Eventually he’ll be so banged-up he can’t play.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 25, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

this “big guy” that is all over television now … he looks about the size needed to pitch the eighth inning for the braves. if he is out of work at the beginning of spring training perhaps the braves should give him a look. paronto in the seventh, the big guy in the eighth, and wicky in the ninth. sounds reasonable.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 25, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

The Braves front office should do whatever it takes Oct. 1 to draw a sellout crowd to The Ted — $1 tickets, $1 beer, a Smoltz vs. Clemens matchup, whatever. Then, after the last out is recorded, no matter the result, the fans should stand as a cheering, chanting, chopping One and give this team and its 15-year legacy of unparalleled achievement (Bobby Cox included) the loud, raucous, appreciative send-off it deserves. We will not see their like again.

What has happened here is a freaking miracle, and I want you to acknowledge it.

I’m there! Will you be?

By Shaun

September 25, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

Lew,

Yeah, except walking him will likely cost your team. Even Bonds at his best will make an out over 50 percent of the time. In many situations, I’d take my chances on pitching to him.

By rammerjammer

September 25, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

Everyone talks about Francoeur’s slump, but have you noticed Renteria? His August AND September stats are identically awful (BA, 230s; OBP, 290s). Is he gassed or what?

By Tom A. Hawk

September 25, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

You’re missing the point again, Shaun. It’s not about winning. It’s about preventing a baseball travesty.

Bang away at that knee! It’s the only solution.

Time to go to work, I guess. Remember to get your tickets today for Oct. 1 at The Ted!

By Head Coach

September 25, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

Time for a new blog.

By Robert

September 25, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

Shaun - why not just say most people, or most baseball people, or most historians?

Sorry, but when you added the “intelligent” qualifier, it made the post suspicious

If you didnt mean it that way, sorry

By Lew

September 25, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

I see everyone’s point, but…. Tom -the Giants won’t stand a chance at winning the WS. The team is ancient and they will lose their best pitcher at the end of the year. Yes, hitting him in the knee would be satisfying for sure, but most pitchers won’t take the chance of getting tossed. Shaun-Pitching to him has not been a good strategy for the Braves. Besides, some things are more important, just like Tom says. Besides, we only play the Giants six games a year. Can’t think of a single year (except 91 and 93) where six games (or less if we win anyway) would have made a difference in the standings. Everyone must do their part. This can’t be allowed to happen. Just like the ancient Egyptians did-remove his name from every monument. Use a chisel if necessary.

By Robert

September 25, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Is it possible to non-emotionally evaluate Andru and point out his positives and negatives without it being called Andru bashing and everyone getting their panties in a twist?

The guy is the best defensive outfielder in the game, and one of the best ever

That notwithstanding, and also notwithstanding his typical annual hr and rbi numbers - he is NOT one of the league’s stud run producer

Look at his career adjusted OPS

Saying he is not at the top of the league list is not bashing him. It’s not racist, it’s not stupid, it’s not unappreciative. It’s objective and analytical

And saying that it might be better for the Braves to not resign him isnt crazy or stupid or prejudiced either.

ARod - who is a far better player than Andru (I hope we can agree on that without precipitating several nervous breakdowns?) - look at him - Were the Rangers better off once he wasnt there? YES! Not because he wasnt a great player, not because he was or wasnt the brightest bulb in the box, not because Texas bloggrs have more brains than DOB’s bloggers - but because of financial realities and baseball realities

Debate the point objectively - statistically - analytically - but the homey factor is getting far too overwhelming

By the way, yesterday’s game was just classic. Young pitcher is slowly but obviously melting down on the mound and there’s the genius, one foot on the dugout steps, staring off into space, chewing his cud — Helluva job Bobby

By Shaun

September 25, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

Robert,

Well, there are a lot of people that write books on baseball history or are on T.V. talking about baseball history who I would not call experts. But even many of the not-so-intelligent baseball people think Babe Ruth is the greatest player ever.

Another point is that human beings have obviously gotten stronger over the years (see every past olympic record from 100 years ago or so), so you could make an argument Albert Pujols, or some other contemporary, is the greatest player ever. But, as far as contributing wins to their team I think most intelligent historians/statisticians agree on Ruth.

By Shaun

September 25, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

Robert,

I disagree about Bobby Cox, but I agree with most of what you say about AJ—great player, but maybe it’s better to try to trade him while his value is high.

His offensive numbers are impressive especially for a CF, but not among the best in the game. And once his defensive value drops, his offense will not be as valuable and I don’t see the Braves switching him to another position.

Time to see what the Braves can get, in my opinion. If they can get a Grade A and a Grade B prospect, I say pull the trigger.

By flbravesgirl

September 25, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

Welcome back, esteemed journalist!

Tom, I love your 10:01 post. Wish I lived close enough to be there.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 25, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

journalist has returned to the blog after the psycho babble jimmy smith returned. i will reclaim this journalists jimmy smith’s identity until jimmy seeks the professional care he needs.

this journalist will not reference toes or hartebeests or pie or worms at any time. this journalist believes the braves blog should be used to discuss Andruw and LaRoche and Franceour. Now baseball- offense is fine for next year, keep offense together. Rid the Braves of Langerhans, keep Diaz in left. Keep Ward and get rid of Pratt. journalist jimmy smith Out. Oh, one more thing - Oh the humanity!

By WorstBloggerEver

September 25, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

Young pitcher is slowly but obviously melting down on the mound and there’s the genius

J@ckass, did you ever learn what pitcher that was or were you too busy sniffin’ your sh!t? Robert, you have offered nothing, NOTHING, of use or interest. Not a single point or sentence that was intelligent, well thought out, or even backed by a source who agrees (real sources fool, not some random secret objection from an un-named source.) The more you HEEEEHAAAWWW, the bigger a fool you appear.
DONKEY ON THE BLOG!

By journalist jimmy smith

September 25, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

journalist has returned to the blog after the psycho babble jimmy smith returned. i will reclaim this journalists jimmy smith’s identity until jimmy seeks the professional care he needs.

this journalist will not reference toes or hartebeests or pie or worms at any time. this journalist believes the braves blog should be used to discuss Andruw and LaRoche and Franceour. Now baseball- offense is fine for next year, keep offense together. Rid the Braves of Langerhans, keep Diaz in left. Keep Ward and get rid of Pratt. journalist jimmy smith Out. Oh, one more thing - Oh the humanity!

By Lew

September 25, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Robert-I can’t argue with you about Andruw. Maybe it would be worth it to let him walk in 08. I’m not sure anyone is worth countless millions to play ball. However, there is somewhat of a difference in ARod’s $25 million and Andruw’s $13.5 million. It’s like the old Congressional joke about adding some zeros to make it serious money. I would dare say that Andruw is more worth what he makes than Arod being worth what HE makes. Now keeping him this year is a much different situation. The Braves CAN afford him in 07 and I really don’t think we would get what he is worth in a trade. Letting Free Agents walk doesn’t faze me in the least. You still get supplemental picks and all that salary.

By TennesseePaul

September 25, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Well, I suppose this season would be a lot nicer if we can beat the tar out of the Mets tomorrow and the next few days. We may see the end of every possible streak which we were on, but we need to stomp those Mets. It shouldn’t be too difficult. The Mets are in a familure place and acting in a familure fashion. They are resting the team right now. Coasting into the playoffs on a losing streak. Might as well hop on and ride this wave into a positive ending.

GO BRAVES

By geauxbraves2000

September 25, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

I wouldn’t doubt if the offense has just given up. What’s the point of scoring 17 runs in two games only to see the pitching staff give up 19.

Now to diss the offense: They better learn how to score runs other than via the homerun ball. It’s all or nothing right now. If they don’t learn another way to score runs, 2007 won’t be any different when it comes to those dang one run games.

I give the pitching staff 87% of the blame this year and the offense 13%. They are a good offense, but I’ve found out the best wan to beat them is to allow them to load the bases with no one out.

A sweep of the final 6 gives them a .500 record. Probably won’t happen, especially with Hudson & Davies in the rotation, but I can still hope.

Nonetheless, the run is now officially over. So, like I’ve said, I tip my hat and lift my glass to the Braves for this incredible run, one that may not be matched by anyone. Thank you Braves.

Geaux Braves!!

By The Grinch

September 25, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Who slipped up and unlocked the racist’s cage? Yeah, the Braves thought Andruw was white when they first drafted him and put him in a world series when he was 19. It took them ten years to figure out he isn’t and now they’re actively trying to get rid of him. Wait ‘till they actually see Ward and Renteria! Moron.

Robert, I don’t agree with your 8:37am post, but it was hilarious. I DO agree with your 10:43, though I think A-rod’s overrated. His numbers are consistently better than Andruw’s, but Andruw has a little something intangible that A-rod doesn’t. Not sure exactly how you’d measure that, but I’d still rather have him (especially for half the money). Journalist Jimmy (the real one), I feel your pain.

By Tony Almeida

September 25, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

If the Braves win the rest of their games and all the teams in front of them for the wild card are disqualified for massive steroid use, then we’re IN!! KEEP THE FAITH!! We’re not out of it yet!!

By flbravesgirl

September 25, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

geaux, I agree that the tendency to wait around for someone to hit a homer is troubling. I’d like to see TP push for better situational hitting from the players next year.

New blog is up!

By Jon

September 25, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

Why do I get the feeling that Robert was wronged by Cox in the past? Or maybe even in a past life. Heres the thing. Most managers would kill to even have the chance of getting to the post season 14 times out of their entire life, Bobby Cox has done it. Now, he may or may not be the best post-season manager, but he is still a great manager when it all comes down to it.

By Robert

September 25, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

“Heres the thing. Most managers would kill to even have the chance of getting to the post season 14 times out of their entire life,”

YES YES YES

And Cox was handed that opportunity on a silver platter, and wasted it

He didnt make the run happen. All he had to do was go along for the ride, but no, he had to start making decisions, and , presto, no world series rings for you

By BB FAN

September 25, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

Robert,

Andruw Jones is one of the leagues “stud” run producers. He led the NL in RBIs (128)last year and is 3rd or 4th this year (124)despite battling injuries. His 51 HRs led the AL and NL last year. His 39 HRs is 7th best in the NL this year. That makes him a top run producer.

I guess arrogance and ignorance are a lethal combination. You don’t know all there is to know about baseball and it’s obvious to everybody blogging except yourself.

By David

September 25, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

Andrew is a very unique case study in sports. There are times during the course of the season when Andrew strikes out so much you wonder how he ever made it to the major leagues. Then, in the midst of a strike-out binge, he makes an absolutely impossible catch in the outfield that simply takes your breath away. Andrew plays such an immaculate outfield that he makes the impossible look routine. Andrew also seems to find a way to get his power numbers. He always seems to be around 30hrs and 100rbis, despite hitting for low averages most of the time. That is what makes him such a unique player when you combine his defensive prowess along with his power numbers, which allways put him among the league leaders in home runs and rbis. Andrew has been in the league for 10 years and he already has 300 home runs, which means he is averaging 30 home runs per season for his career——that is definitely hall-of-fame territory! On the other hand, he struggles mightily at the plate at times, and he hits for such low averages most seasons that his name ALWAYS comes up in trade conversations. Case in point, this season he is placed on waivers, despite his contributions year in and year out. If you look at his overall contributions, Andrew is more of a asset than he ever would be a liability and I would have him on my team any time. Andrew, because of the amount of runs he saves each year by the spectacular catches that he makes, he is such an incredible impact player to his team. He is just a very unique special talent that when is finally consistently hits for average, he will be what Albert Pujols is today—-the MVP of the league!

By Robert

September 25, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

BB Fan - adjusted OPS is probably the best stat available to show how much a player contributes to run production

It’s better than RBI + Run -HR because it somewhat takes out to some extent the effects of what the guys around him are doing

The components of ops are obp and slugging

Andru has made the league top 10 in one of those categories ONCE during his career

Show me where he has been in the top tier of adjusted OPS for even a single season, and you can begin to argue his case as an elite run producer

The hypothetical figure of runs created per 27 outs (which is calculated based on the components of OPS) - shows how many runs a whole team of Player X’s would theoretically generate per game’s worth of outs

Andru - one season above 7 - career 5.9 that great year he had 6.62

Chipper career 7.94, hi-season 10.34 Bonds career nearly 10, high season 20 and change ARod - career 8.09 Griffey Jr career 7.64 McGriff career 6.91

Dude, Andru is a good player, and a great defensive ballpalyer - but he isnt in the same area code with the top run producers in the game

By BB FAN

September 25, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

Robert,

There we go, every time a discussion of any player is started, somebody has to pull that adjusted OBS sh!t out of their a ss!Have you ever heard of intangibles? How about defense? Offensive stats are very important in baseball but they are not the only thing that matters. What Andruw Jones brings to the Braves can not be replaced. Period. You ask any pitcher if he wants Andruw Jones on his team, and he’ll say yes without a thought.

Now would I keep him for Arod money of 25 mill a year. No, not if I only had the Braves $80 million payroll. But he is worth the 13.5 mill for the Braves payroll. And I would not be surprised if he took a discount to stay with the Braves. He did it in 2000 when he told his agent Scott Boras to stay out of the negotiations. He and his father negotiated that deal because Boras was being a greedy a sshole.

By robdawg06

September 26, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this

How long does Bobby Cox plan on managing the Braves ? Doesn’t he have a wife and grand kids to spend time with in his golden years ? Man, I want a new manager. Its the same old story that when the Braves win Cox is a great manager but when they lose in the playoffs its the player’s fault and not Cox’s. It can’t be both ways people. Granted, Bobby is a good manager. But I’m sure with the teams that he has had other managers would have done worse and I think some would have done better (in the playoffs). There have been some bonehead moves by bobby in the playoffs. Either leaving a pitcher in too long or calling on the same failed relievers to pitch over and over (Reitsma & Kolb anyone ?). The Braves are getting younger (McCann,Francoeur,Davies,C.James,Salty,etc.) and they need a younger manager. I feel the same way (even more so) about Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno in college football. Dudes, let it go. The game has passed you by. Retire with dignity. There is life after baseball.

By robdawg06

September 26, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

Why do baseball managers and coaches wear uniforms ? Its not like they are going to play. The football coaches don’t wear pads and jerseys. The basketball coaches don’t wear tank tops and shorts. Can you tell me why baseball managers and coaches dress up in halloween costumes during the season ? Ever thought about it ?

By Nelson Hawkins

September 27, 2006 02:34 AM | Link to this

How to grasp the unfathomable paradox of Andruw Rudolf Jones?

He is fluent in more languages than the SJA will ever hear spoken, probably speed-reads in Esperanto, is the proud, respectful son of a strong, working-class family from Curacao, yet didn’t realize getting involved with the types that frequent the Gold Club wasn’t a good idea (he’s lucky it didn’t cause him more grief than it did, especially given the Braves’ taste for a vanilla image). He plays the best center field of his generation, easily belongs with Tris Speaker, Willie Mays, and Joe DiMaggio in any discussion of the best ever, yet his manager had to yank him from a game in front of 30,000 booing fans for doggin’ it. Dominating the highlight reels, frosty-haired ego-dude Jim Edmonds flings his body all over center field for balls Andruw stands waiting for, so polite, professional-Gold-Glover Andruw doesn’t even have the most memorable center field catch in his team’s history. Torii Hunter dons a mask and pretends to be Spider-Man for ESPN’s cameras while everyone intuitively understands affable, aw-shucks Andruw is The Greatest. He hit home runs in each of his first 2 World Series ABs, at 19 years old, in Yankee Stadium, yet has taken a decade since to fulfill his complete offensive promise: he led the league in HRs last year, but hit weakly in clutch situations; he improved that to respectable levels this year while maintaining good power numbers, having his best overall year for a team destined to finish fourth, with the first losing record of his major-league career. Even in a personally successful year like 2006, he’s still, to use DOB’s term, “maddening”: his pre-All-Star-break batting average of .271 has dropped to a post-break average of .248, yet his first-half OPS of .848 rocketed to a second-half .953; he’s cut his first-half strikeouts by a third, but his second-half RBI are a third lower than what he produced before the break. This year he’s hitting .259 with an .854 OPS at home, but .364 with a 1.227 OPS at pitcher-friendly Dodger Stadium.

I want Andruw to stay—he’s my age, and I’ve watched him grow up while I have too, and you just don’t get to have those kinds of cultural touchstones come along often in life; I don’t see how the Braves will realistically get him traded, mainly because he’s too much to lose, regardless of what comes back, so I’m wanting an extension to get done. Everything Andruw did in his early years got him on the track toward Hall of Fame consideration, but these are his Hall of Fame years, those years we will look back at some day, all nicely arranged in a long list, where we see that he achieved remarkable offensive numbers for a sustained amount of time, and we will recall in our shared memory all that spectacular defense, and we will know that he was ours.