AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > September > 21 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USWick’s signed, but that’s only first step
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Coming to you live from chilly Colorado, where fans out here are concerned with how badly their Buffaloes will get thrashed Saturday by the ‘Dawgs in Athens, and more importantly, if their massive beast mascot _ Ralphie the buffalo, not Uga _ will return safely from the trip without harassment or misadventure.
Went to sleep with my Denver hotel-room window open, woke this morning with temps in the mid-40s and rain. It’s warmed some since, but temps are going to be in the 50s with intermittent rain possible tonight, and colder for the weekend.
OK, to matters of concern in Braves Nation: Big Wick is signed, so now what?
As first moves go, re-signing Bob Wickman was the best first move John Schuerholz could have done to restore faith and optimism among the Braves and their fans for next season. And quite surprising, given J.S.’s way of doing things and rarely deviating from his policy of not negotiating contracts during the season, etc.
Just goes to show age hasn’t diminished his mental capacity _ Schuerholz, not Wickman _ and that the GM knew the Braves simply couldn’t afford to miss out on a closer again and have the failure haunt them the entire 2007 season, the way it has this year (their 20 blown saves in 40 chances before Wickman’s arrival were as big a reason for the sub-.500 season as any).
Wickman is re-signed, but the building process has just begun. Because if you’re going to have a top-flight closer, you need to have a proven setup man or two to get the lead to him.
As surprising as Chad Paronto has been, the Braves need to get another proven guy to help shorten games to seven innings, someone of the caliber of Danys Baez, though personally I’d prefer a bit more consistency even if the tradeoff was a bit less stuff. He might be too expensive for the role anyway, especially if some team decides he could be their closer, which he’d probably prefer.
Then there’s the rotation. Seemingly an overabundance of starters to choose from next year, but we all should know by now the axiom _ you can never have too much starting pitching. This year was a classic example, because when Jorge Sosa fell on his face and John Thomson got hurt _ once, twice, how many times? _ and Horacio Ramirez and Kyle Davies got hurt … well, where were the Braves then?
Turning to relievers Lance Cormier and Oscar Villarreal to start key games while the Braves desperately tried to remain in the wild-card race, that’s where they were. And while both have surpassed most expectations as starters, the fact remains that neither was the ideal solution.
The Braves need to bring in another starter, as I’ve said before, now more than ever. Because with Smoltz at 39, Hampton coming back from elbow and knee surgeries and more than a one-year absence, and Davies still trying to establish himself, the Braves’ rotation is far from being a sure strength for 2007.
Chuck James has passed the test in my eyes and proven he’s no fluke. He’ll be solid and win 15 or more games next season.
But Tim Hudson, the man we all assumed would be a co-ace with Smoltz and take over the No. 1 role by now, simply hasn’t lived up to billing.
He’s not been nearly as woeful as some suggest, but he sure hasn’t been the guy the Braves expected when they traded for him and gave him a four-year, $47 million extension before he’d ever thrown a pitch in a spring training game (not that they had much choice, given the March 1 deadline he gave them to get an extension done, or else he said he would’ve not negotiated during the 2005 season and would’ve tested free agency at the end of that season).
The guy who was the winningest pitcher in the AL over five seasons? He hasn’t been that guy, folks. He just hasn’t.
And the Braves have a bit of a quandary with him in that next season is the last year his contract is still relatively cheap ($6 mill). If he has another mediocre season (and double-digit losses and a ERA well over 4.00 is mediocre, any way you slice it), what team is going to be willing to trade for Hudson, who makes $13 mill in 2008 and $13 mill in 2009, with a $12 mill option for 2010 and $1 mill buyout of that option?
The Braves backloaded his contract to fit him into last year’s payroll (and this year’s payroll) and assumed they’d have a lot of young players making small salaries when his contract really kicked in and made him one of the team’s highest paid players.
But what they couldn’t have assumed is they’d need to get another ace to lead the rotation in those last two years of Hudson’s contract. At this point, with no certainty regarding Smoltz at 41 in 2008 or Hampton coming back to be an ace, there is a very real possibility that the Braves would be without a legit No. 1-caliber starter in 2008 if Hudson doesn’t rebound.
Check this stat, for those ready to defend Hudson and downplay his struggles: Hudson had 17 quality starts (six innings or more, three earned runs or fewer) in his first 26 games for the Braves through Sept. 12, 2005. He has only 14 quality starts in his 36 games since then.
He has 12 wins this season (before his Saturday start), but he also has a career-worst 11 losses and 4.83 ERA, and Hudson has failed to take advantage of the seventh-best run support in the NL (he’s received 5.7 runs per nine innings pitched, far greater than most other Braves starters).
At the risk of being accused of going to the altar of a certain other Braves starter, consider this: Smoltz has made 65 starts since returning to the rotation in 2005, and the Braves have scored two runs or fewer while he’s been in 33 of those 65 games. I’d bet that if Smoltz got as much run support as Hudson’s received this season, he’d have at least 17 wins.
We’ll get around to the Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles situations later, since we’ve got plenty of time to blog here in coming weeks about what needs to be done. But feel free, of course, to discuss whatever you please in regards to those concerns or any other. Just thought I’d weigh in a bit on the pitching staff after the surprising Wickman announcement.
Comments
By geauxbraves2000
September 21, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB, stay warm!
I had hoped Wickman would’ve been resigned, but I was expecting, if he did resign, that it would be after the season was over. This is out of the norm. Since JS is apparently willing to do things out of the norm, I sure wish he would go ahead and announce Smotlz’s option has been picked up. We all know it’s probably going to happen, so why not appease everyone?
Great signing, excellent timing, WTG JS! Step #1 into starting another 14 year run.
Geaux Braves!!
By Jeff
September 21, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this
Absolutely right about the questions you raise with re: to the starting pitching and set up situation. Does Hudson rebound? How long will it take for Hampton to regain form? Smoltz is a year older and Ramirez has been on the DL parts of the last two seasons. Davies may need more seasoning. James is legit.
Are the Braves looking at any of these guys, including Smoltz, as untouchable? Seems to mean that you can’t have too much pitching, starting or relief, period. To do more than make a one-year run, the team needs lots of good young arms, and if they can trade away some of the vets young guns, all the better.
By gpburdell
September 21, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this
Great post DOB. An alternative if the Braves can’t get that established top of the rotation starter would be to build the staff up from back to front. A strong bullpen masks mediocre pitching, which the Braves may be subject to next year. I’m not the biggest Baez fan but I think he would be good in that setup role…or perhaps even Chris Reitsma. He’s not a closer but he has shown that he is a capable set-up man. Throw in McBride and Paranto and the bullpen is not looking so bad.
By Mike C.
September 21, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
Let the games begin. Keep Smoltzie, Davies, James, Hampton, Hudson, Ramirez, Villareal and Wickman. Get rid of the rest of the pitchers and choose major league replacements and not these guys off the streets. In my opinion and at his salary next year, Hudson deserves a chance to rebound. The guy takes the ball whenever given to him and he battles. I think another pitch added to his arsenal would be a great thing. DOB, I feel another bat in the outfield would help. Move Giles out for pitching along with Langerhans. If Andruw, (my favorite player), gets too expensive trade him for a top flight starter and middle reliever. If the Yanks don’t keep Sheffield then trade Andruw before the season starts and get Sheffield. Put Francoeur in center, Sheff in right and Diaz in left. Or get Coco Crisp and a starter from Boston for Andruw. I don’t think the Braves will stand pat with their current everyday players knowing the lineups they have to beat in New York and Philadelphia.
By matches
September 21, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
I think we’re stuck with Hudson unless we’re willing to just give him away. It’s hard to sell a stock when it’s value is lowest. We have to hope he bounces back in 2007 and returns to form. A gamble, maybe, but Hudson does have a good track record and will have had 2 full years to adjust to the NL, so there is hope.
By rammerjammer
September 21, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this
Welcome back DOB. Who do the Braves have in mind as that additional starter?
Seems to me we already have the bullpen. Wick has made an impact on his bullpen mates, and he’s produced on the field. No reason to think he, McBride, Paronto, Yates and Oscar can’t do the job next season.
Honestly, the best move the Braves can make is to just get luckier regarding health. You’ll never succeed with four starting pitchers on the DL.
By Shaun
September 21, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
The Braves should be a lot better and contend, but aren’t likely to jump 15-20 wins in the standings next year. However, they have a solid core in place and could win 95-100 in a few years. Even if they trade Andruw, Giles and/or Hudson, they should still contend because they’ll still have McCann, Chipper, Smoltz, Wickman, etc. And why not increase the chances to win 95-100 in a few years and take your chances with Chipper, Smoltz, Wickman, some veterans that you can sign to cheap, short-term contracts, and the youngsters next season?
By Dan
September 21, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this
I agree on the starter analogy. Also, the Braves have played .555 ball since June 30th. Over an entire season that equates to 89-90 wins. I would think the Braves would surpass that win total next year with Wickman, but what about the new ownership? Will the Braves be able to spend more money? The key is Hudson. I hope he can show us the stuff that we thought we were getting. Would he be better with Mazone as his coach? I guess we’ll never know.
By geauxbraves2000
September 21, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this
I, for one, really do hope Huddy bounces back. For the Angels, for the Rangers, or whomever he pitches for next year.
Seriously though, I do want Hudson to turn it around, and he’s had many many chances to do it this year, and just when you think maybe is his turning things around, 5R in 5IP. I don’t think the Braves can afford to “hope” he turns it around. If they go into next year with him and he doesn’t turn it around, then the Braves are stuck with a massive unmovable contract. This may be the last chance the Braves have to move him. Even if it’s for a PTBNL, at least the $$ is of the payroll.
I wish Hudson well, and if he does stay in ATL I will root for him. If he does end up turning it around, then I’ll admit it would’ve been a mistake to trade him.
Geaux Braves!!
By geauxbraves2000
September 21, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this
I, for one, really do hope Huddy bounces back. For the Angels, for the Rangers, or whomever he pitches for next year.
Seriously though, I do want Hudson to turn it around, and he’s had many many chances to do it this year, and just when you think maybe is his turning things around, 5R in 5IP. I don’t think the Braves can afford to “hope” he turns it around. If they go into next year with him and he doesn’t turn it around, then the Braves are stuck with a massive unmovable contract. This may be the last chance the Braves have to move him. Even if it’s for a PTBNL, at least the $$ is of the payroll.
I wish Hudson well, and if he does stay in ATL I will root for him. If he does end up turning it around, then I’ll admit it would’ve been a mistake to trade him.
Geaux Braves!!
By dfree
September 21, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
DOB, what about Jason Schmidt? too expensive?
By TennesseePaul
September 21, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
DOB: Welcome back. It’s nice to read a blog article with some substance. If Guy is the pinch hitter, he’s filling in like Todd Pratt.
By Shaun
September 21, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
O’Brien, I agree with your assessment of Hudson. I don’t want to badmouth him because he actually hasn’t been that bad. But he’s a bit overpriced and payroll efficiency has become increasingly more important for the Braves, given the fact that the Mets are fast becoming the NL’s version of the Yankees or Red Sox if they haven’t already. Trading him to a team like the Yankees or Red Sox and having them pick up a chunk of his salary seems like a good move.
By Shaun
September 21, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
O’Brien, I agree with your assessment of Hudson. He hasn’t been that bad but he is overpriced. And payroll efficiency has become increasingly important given the fact that the Mets are fast becoming or are already the Yankees/Red Sox of the NL. I think trading him to a team willing to pick up a chunk of his contract and willing to give us a solid youngster, would be the way to go.
By Shaun
September 21, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
I agree with the assessment of Hudson. He hasn’t been that bad, but is overpriced. The Braves should trade him to a team willing to take on a chunk of his contract and willing to give us a solid youngster. Payroll efficiency has become increasingly important given the fact that the Mets are now the Yankees/Red Sox of the NL.
By Shaun
September 21, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
Sorry. Wouldn’t let me post.
By Braveheart
September 21, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
If the Braves sweep 4 from the Rockies, they can get to 500 & with alot of help they can be only 1.5 games back in wildcard standings! We need Floria to sweep Philly & Arizona to sweep LA and/or Pittsburgh to sweep San Diego. Go BRAVES, MARLINS, DIAMONDBACKS, and PIRATES!!!!
NL Wildcard Standings of top 7 teams Through Wed 9/20:
Team W L PCT GB E#
Los Angeles 79 73 .520 - -
Philadelphia 79 73 .520 - -
San Francisco 75 76 .497 3.5 8
Florida 75 77 .493 4.0 7
Atlanta 74 78 .487 5.0 6
Cincinnati 74 78 .487 5.0 6
Houston 73 78 .483 5.5 6
—-
Braves Sum GB 12.5
Thu 9/21 games involving top 7 NL wildcard teams & San Diego:
Atl beats Col, Pit beats LA, Ari beats SD, Mil beats SF, NYM beats FL, Stl beats Hou
Team W L PCT GB
Philadelphia 79 73 .520 -
San Diego 79 73 .520 Leads NL West
Los Angeles 79 74 .516 .5
San Francisco 75 77 .493 4.0
Florida 75 78 .490 4.5
Atlanta 75 78 .490 4.5
Cincinnati 74 78 .487 5.0
Houston 73 79 .480 6
—-
Braves Sum GB 10
Fri 9/22 games involving top 5 NL wildcard teams & San Diego:
Atl beats Col, FL beats Phi, Ari beats LA, Pit beats SD, Mil beats SF
Team W L PCT GB
Philadelphia 79 74 .516 -
San Diego 79 74 .516 Leads NL West
Los Angeles 79 75 .513 .5
Florida 76 78 .494 3.5
Atlanta 76 78 .494 3.5
San Francisco 75 78 .490 4.0
—-
Braves Sum GB 6.5
Sat 9/23 games involving top 4 NL wildcard teams & San Diego:
Atl beats Col, FL beats Phi, Ari beats LA, Pit beats SD
Team W L PCT GB
Philadelphia 79 75 .513 -
San Diego 79 75 .513 Leads NL West
Los Angeles 79 76 .510 .5
Florida 77 78 .497 2.5
Atlanta 77 78 .497 2.5
—-
Braves Sum GB 4.5
Sun 9/24 games involving top 4 NL wildcard teams & San Diego:
Atl beats Col, FL beats Phi, Ari beats LA, Pit beats SD
Team W L PCT GB
Philadelphia 79 76 .510 -
San Diego 79 76 .510 Leads NL West
Los Angeles 79 77 .506 .5
Florida 78 78 .500 1.5
Atlanta 78 78 .500 1.5
—-
Braves Sum GB 2.5
By journalist jimmy smith
September 21, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
journalist has just learned that chipper is now injured by toes. toes should not be trifled with. whether it is a sore toe or broken toe is not clear. sore toes may need extra icy hot after games. prized journalist DOB has reported urgent need for setup man and starting pitching. can paronTOE be counted on next season or will toes be a nemesis. toes should not be trifled with. Oh the humanity! someone please wake-up bob for the game.
By Braveheart
September 21, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this
If the Braves sweep 4 from the Rockies, they can get to 500 & with alot of help they can be only 1.5 games back in wildcard standings! We need Floria to sweep Philly & Arizona to sweep LA and/or Pittsburgh to sweep San Diego. Go BRAVES, MARLINS, DIAMONDBACKS, and PIRATES!!!!
NL Wildcard Standings of top 7 teams Through Wed 9/20:
Team W L PCT GB E#
Los Angeles 79 73 .520 - -
Philadelphia 79 73 .520 - -
San Francisco 75 76 .497 3.5 8
Florida 75 77 .493 4.0 7
Atlanta 74 78 .487 5.0 6
Cincinnati 74 78 .487 5.0 6
Houston 73 78 .483 5.5 6
—-
Braves Sum GB 12.5
Thu 9/21 games involving top 7 NL wildcard teams & San Diego:
Atl beats Col, Pit beats LA, Ari beats SD, Mil beats SF, NYM beats FL, Stl beats Hou
Team W L PCT GB
Philadelphia 79 73 .520 -
San Diego 79 73 .520 Leads NL West
Los Angeles 79 74 .516 .5
San Francisco 75 77 .493 4.0
Florida 75 78 .490 4.5
Atlanta 75 78 .490 4.5
Cincinnati 74 78 .487 5.0
Houston 73 79 .480 6
—-
Braves Sum GB 10
Fri 9/22 games involving top 5 NL wildcard teams & San Diego:
Atl beats Col, FL beats Phi, Ari beats LA, Pit beats SD, Mil beats SF
Team W L PCT GB
Philadelphia 79 74 .516 -
San Diego 79 74 .516 Leads NL West
Los Angeles 79 75 .513 .5
Florida 76 78 .494 3.5
Atlanta 76 78 .494 3.5
San Francisco 75 78 .490 4.0
—-
Braves Sum GB 6.5
Sat 9/23 games involving top 4 NL wildcard teams & San Diego:
Atl beats Col, FL beats Phi, Ari beats LA, Pit beats SD
Team W L PCT GB
Philadelphia 79 75 .513 -
San Diego 79 75 .513 Leads NL West
Los Angeles 79 76 .510 .5
Florida 77 78 .497 2.5
Atlanta 77 78 .497 2.5
—-
Braves Sum GB 4.5
Sun 9/24 games involving top 4 NL wildcard teams & San Diego:
Atl beats Col, FL beats Phi, Ari beats LA, Pit beats SD
Team W L PCT GB
Philadelphia 79 76 .510 -
San Diego 79 76 .510 Leads NL West
Los Angeles 79 77 .506 .5
Florida 78 78 .500 1.5
Atlanta 78 78 .500 1.5
—-
Braves Sum GB 2.5
By Tony Almeida
September 21, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this
Braveheart…dude…it’s over…look to next season…
By Phat Bat Boy
September 21, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
Let’s see, including his last season in Oakland, dude has an ERA of 4.38, has allowed 610 hits in 587 innings and has a 38-26 record. That sounds like a 4th starter on a good team. He is 31 years old. He appears to pitch better in cooler weather and he is a member of the Hotlanta Braves. Did Billy Beane trade this guy solely because of his impending free agency? So we go into next season relying on a 39-year old, a guy who hasn’t pitched in years due to injuries and a very mediocre pitcher at the top of the rotation. Since quality starters are more expensive than just about anything, I say resign Giles & bat him 2nd (push Renteria to 8th), try to trade for Dave Roberts or another quality lead-off batter, and let’s simply try to outscore everyone, before turning it over to the bullpen. We can gamble that either Yates, Boyer, Divine or Reitsma can become an above average set-up man. Having 20 homers and 75 RBI potential from every field position player is a lot cheaper than signing Schmidt or another true staff ace.
By geauxbraves2000
September 21, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
I was just looking at the Wild Card standings, and I for one want to say I’m proud of the turnaround from this team after that dreadful June. They have come back from 10th in the WC race all the up to 5th. That’s not easy to do with all those teams facing each other. WTG Braves!!
The WC would be awesome, and while it is still possible, I don’t think it’s realistic as this stage, too many scenarios have to happen. I sure would love to see the Braves above .500 though when it’s all said and done. Must go 7-3 in the final 10 for that to happen.
Geaux Braves!!
By AZBravoFan
September 21, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this
Trade Andruw for Sheffield??? If they get rid of Andruw they’ve got to do a LOT better than that. Anyone recall a big hit that Sheffield had in 2 post-seasons with Atlanta? Exactly.
By Head Coach
September 21, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this
DOB , maybe my math is screwy but I have come up with a rough estimate of 74 to 76 million in contracts for next season already. Can the Braves afford another big contract ? I doubt it , unless they unload Giles 3.85 million and go with Prado and or Pena jr. Signing Wickman makes negotiating with Baez easy. Either accept an incentive contract in the 1 to 1.5 million range or take a walk. Ditto for Thomson. Obviously the biggest need at the moment is a leadoff hitter. I was thinking about Corey Patterson who is long on potential and short on stats( the Cubs dumped him in favor of Juan Pierre)untill this season. You know Tampa Bay will want Salty in any potential trade talks concerning Carl Crawford and I’m crazy enough to take that flying leap. Signing another solid veteran starter would be nice , I just dont think the Braves have the financial resources. But knowing how creative John Schuerholz is he just might pull another rabbit out his hat again. His trading for Wickman and then signing him to a contract extension is just stunning and absolutely brilliant. Daryl Ward is a nice addition too and I’m taking a wait and see attitude on the Betemit trade. I have to stand by Huddy at this point , the guy is a winner and has averaged 15 wins a season for eight years , So I’m willing to give him one more season before breaking out with the tar and feathers. DOB, your absolutely right , the Braves need all the pitching they can get their hands on. I keep envisioning a rotation with Hampton , Ramirez and James. Three lefty, can you imagine the havoc and matchup problems they would present ? Nobody has three leftys and it would give the Braves a big competitive edge over everybody else. Did you know the Bravos are 14-10 in July , 15-13 in August and 11-9 so far in September ? they have been winning for three months and hardly anybody(including me) has noticed. O’well better late than never , here is to hoping they make it to .500 , Go Braves !
By Donnie
September 21, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
Braveheart - That’s an awful long post for a joke. Oh, what’s that? You weren’t joking? Give it a rest. There’s a better chance of a monkey flying out of your butt than the Braves taking the Wild Card. They have a less than 1 percent chance of making it. Quit torturing yourself and look to the future.
By Donnie
September 21, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this
Sorry, that’s less than .1 percent chance of making the playoffs. You know, a 1 in 1000 chance.
By gpburdell
September 21, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this
It’s not over until the season is over. As Herman Edwards once said, “You play to win the game…hello.”
Go Braves!
By Tony Almeida
September 21, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this
As Willie Nelson once said - “turn out the lights, the party’s over, there is a time, all things must end”
By Shaun
September 21, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this
Sheffield would be a great addition to the Braves…if the Yankees pay his contract.
By Bravo Nam
September 21, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
What was it I said? Now…there are three certainties in life- taxes, death and the Braves signing Bob Wickman. But, never in my wildest dreams would’ve I believed it would happen before the season is out…gotta give JS credit. For all the criticism JS has received on this blog, he really should’ve got more bouquets for the Wickman trade- three reasons- we gave away virtually nothing, we got incredible production out of Wickman, and it set us up to fill our biggest need.
Talking about JS and his trades, he got hammered on this site for the Betemit to LA for Baez and Aybar. Baez performed very well while he was healthy, JS couldn’t have foreseen an appendicitis! In fact, bloggers liek Baez so much that many want him back. And Aybar, a few years younger than Betemit, is dong nicely and should get even better in the next couple. And of course, bringing in Ward. There was one particular blogger who just wouldn’t let this go. The guy has been absolutely outstanding since arriving here- arguably the best PH in the NL. And…like with so many guys who come here for the first time, they settle in quickly, and it gives the Braves a headstart in negotiations with them. Bottom line is- JS had a stinker of a year by his own lofty standards, but even this year was better than most going around baseball.
After having said what I did about Baez, I don’t think the Braves should resign him. He’ll get five mill on the open market- the Braves would need rocks in their heads to give a guy as inconsistent as Baez such a contract.
I agree full heartedly with DOB- the problem we have with Hudson will be his booming contract after next year. No way can the braves take the risk of him having a subpar 2007 and then being untradeable- I strongly believe the Braves will trade him in the offseason- put it this way, the chances of Hudson being traded are much higher than that of AJ…and possibly…remarkably…even Giles (although I also think he should be traded).
By KC
September 21, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
“The Braves need to bring in another starter”
DOB, now you’re the one not making any sense.
It’s nice in theory, but who are we going to get??? Should we bring back Glavine or Maddux??? Part of me would love to see that for sentimental reasons, but let’s be serious here. They’re both two weeks away from receiving a discount at Denny’s, and unlike John Smoltz, they haven’t shown the ability to dominate at an advanced baseball age (at least not for a full season). So let’s go shopping! Let’s see here… what should we buy? Buehrle? Radke? V.Padilla? Woody Williams? Let’s just step up and pluck a morsel from the buffet of mediocrity that is the 2006-2007 free agent starting pitching pool!
The only two noteworthy free agent starters, Schmidt and Zito, are both going to get 15 million a year offers from several teams (and of course Atlanta won’t be among them).
DOB, please explain… in what respect is our rotation thin heading into 2007??? I happen to think that we have 5 starters that are all very capable of being top-of-the-rotation type of pitchers, along with two other starters that won’t even have a place to start (though they deserve to).
Yes, Smoltz will be 40. Yes, Hampton is coming off surgery. And yes, Horacio Ramirez has been oft injured. (Tim Hudson hasn’t spent much time on the DL in his career and no reason to be concerned about James’ health) So what if one of our starters goes on the shelf… let’s say Hampton has to spend some time on the DL. Now your rotation is Smoltz, Hudson, Ramirez, James, Davies/Cormier. Lets even suppose that two starters are on the shelf at the same time… say, HoRam and Hampton. Now your rotation is Smoltz, Hudson, James, Davies, Cormier (exactly what it is right now). That’s still pretty good as long as Hudson bounces back for the most part next season. BTW: I would venture to say that Davies/Cormier have more ability than most 4, 5 starter combinations in baseball.
So what about Tim Hudson? Huddy has now had 3 lousy months IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER!!!! Is that enough of a sample to conclude that Tim Hudson has fallen and can’t get up? Could it be that we’re seeing the new, and whatever the opposite of “improved” is, Tim Hudson? Maybe we should expect him to go 12-13 next year with a 4.92 ERA Maybe… but I doubt it. I wouldn’t bet money on his demise… in fact, I would wager that he bounces back. I think it’s much more likely that we’ll see him finish with a decidedly winning record and an ERA somewhere between 3.00-4.00.
Unless his last name is Schmidt, we don’t need another starting pitcher.
By Bravo Nam
September 21, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this
What was it I said? Now…there are three certainties in life- taxes, death and the Braves signing Bob Wickman. But, never in my wildest dreams would’ve I believed it would happen before the season is out…gotta give JS credit. For all the criticism JS has received on this blog, he really should’ve got more bouquets for the Wickman trade- three reasons- we gave away virtually nothing, we got incredible production out of Wickman, and it set us up to fill our biggest need.
Talking about JS and his trades, he got hammered on this site for the Betemit to LA for Baez and Aybar. Baez performed very well while he was healthy, JS couldn’t have foreseen an appendicitis! In fact, bloggers liek Baez so much that many want him back. And Aybar, a few years younger than Betemit, is dong nicely and should get even better in the next couple. And of course, bringing in Ward. There was one particular blogger who just wouldn’t let this go. The guy has been absolutely outstanding since arriving here- arguably the best PH in the NL. And…like with so many guys who come here for the first time, they settle in quickly, and it gives the Braves a headstart in negotiations with them. Bottom line is- JS had a stinker of a year by his own lofty standards, but even this year was better than most going around baseball.
After having said what I did about Baez, I don’t think the Braves should resign him. He’ll get five mill on the open market- the Braves would need rocks in their heads to give a guy as inconsistent as Baez such a contract.
I agree full heartedly with DOB- the problem we have with Hudson will be his booming contract after next year. No way can the braves take the risk of him having a subpar 2007 and then being untradeable- I strongly believe the Braves will trade him in the offseason- put it this way, the chances of Hudson being traded are much higher than that of AJ…and possibly…remarkably…even Giles (although I also think he should be traded).
By Bravo Nam
September 21, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this
What was it I said? Now…there are three certainties in life- taxes, death and the Braves signing Bob Wickman. But, never in my wildest dreams would’ve I believed it would happen before the season is out…gotta give JS credit. For all the criticism JS has received on this blog, he really should’ve got more bouquets for the Wickman trade- three reasons- we gave away virtually nothing, we got incredible production out of Wickman, and it set us up to fill our biggest need.
Talking about JS and his trades, he got hammered on this site for the Betemit to LA for Baez and Aybar. Baez performed very well while he was healthy, JS couldn’t have foreseen an appendicitis! In fact, bloggers liek Baez so much that many want him back. And Aybar, a few years younger than Betemit, is dong nicely and should get even better in the next couple. And of course, bringing in Ward. There was one particular blogger who just wouldn’t let this go. The guy has been absolutely outstanding since arriving here- arguably the best PH in the NL. And…like with so many guys who come here for the first time, they settle in quickly, and it gives the Braves a headstart in negotiations with them. Bottom line is- JS had a stinker of a year by his own lofty standards, but even this year was better than most going around baseball.
After having said what I did about Baez, I don’t think the Braves should resign him. He’ll get five mill on the open market- the Braves would need rocks in their heads to give a guy as inconsistent as Baez such a contract.
I agree full heartedly with DOB- the problem we have with Hudson will be his booming contract after next year. No way can the braves take the risk of him having a subpar 2007 and then being untradeable- I strongly believe the Braves will trade him in the offseason- put it this way, the chances of Hudson being traded are much higher than that of AJ…and possibly…remarkably…even Giles (although I also think he should be traded).
By journalist jimmy smith
September 21, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this
journalist has noticed the increase of double posts on this blog. Oh the humanity! journalist thinks stinky is behind the double posting plague. double posting should not be trifled with.
By Bravo Nam
September 21, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
Braveheart Whoever you are, I like your passion. Don’t take any notice of the losers on this site who deride you- you’re a true Braves devotee- and you’re the type of fan that gives the rest of us heart.
Braves should forget about Schmidt for three reasons- too expensive, injury prone, and doesn’t perform well at the Ted.
I agree with DOB. The Braves need another SP- and they’ll get one- not through free agency- but through trade- there’s no way Hudson or Ramirez are returning.
By Lew
September 21, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
Head Coach-I’m not sure of your math, but dumping Tnomson, Reitsma, Jordan, Sosa and Remlinger frees up about $12 million. Smoltz will make $2million less in 07 than this year. This pays for all arbitration raises (including Marcus) and obviously pays for at least Wicky, maybe a bit more. We are not in the extreme straits that some consider us to be. I still don’t know why people (not necessarily you, Coach) think Andruw will agree to any trade. He CAN veto it and has continually said he doesn’t want to play anywhere else. Why do you think he will agree when he keeps saying NO? We don’t need to plan 5 years out like Shaun seems to think. That is what the farm system is for. Now some keep saying to get prosapects for Andruw and Giles. Just who do you think we will get that makes a difference for 07? Nothing of significance was offered for Andruw at the trading deadline-a time when people notoriously overspend. Why will they offer more now that he has acknowledged knee and back problems and has had a horrendous August and September? Giles has had an off year (actually a bad April). Just how much of the farm do youthink people will pay for him? Certainly not as much as y’all seem to think. Losing players to free agency is no big deal. You get supplemental picks and the money from their salaries. We kep the streak alive just fine doing it this way and using our own youth. Finally-Shaun-Yes I do believe, with a few SMALL offseason moves, we can improve 15 games. Hell, just turn June around and that’s most of it there.
By KC
September 21, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
Braveheart: I wish there were still a way for the Braves to win the Wild Card this year… but there’s not.
In order for us to force a playoff, we would have to win all 10 of our remaining games… and both the Dodgers and Phillies would have go no better then 5-5 the rest of the way.
The odds of our winning all 10 of our remaining games is very slim. But the odds of the Braves pulling that off, and both the Dodgers and Philies cooperating the way we would need them to are extraordinarily slim.
By JG
September 21, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
84-78 will be the WC so until we hit 79 in the loss column there’s still a chance. Someone said .1%… actually about half that. 10 wins in a row then the tie-breaker. The odds stink… but probably better odds then going worst-to-first in ‘91. (If we lose tonight, we’ll have plenty of time tomorrow to discuss next year). Go Braves!
By JG
September 21, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
84-78 will be the WC so until we hit 79 in the loss column there’s still a chance. Someone said .1%… actually about half that. 10 wins in a row then the tie-breaker. The odds stink… but probably better odds then going worst-to-first in ‘91. (If we lose tonight, we’ll have plenty of time tomorrow to discuss next year). Go Braves!
By Bravo Nam
September 21, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
Music- for DOB and all our music lovers on this site
Many interesting new and old artists have been discussed on this site. But…there’s one guy who has never been discussed…and a guy who few have heard outside of South Africa, NZ and Australia…but he is an American!
Sixto Diaz Rodriguez professionally known as Rodriguez, was born and bred in Detroit and still lives there. He only released three albums in the early 70s. But, in my opinion, he is one of the greatest singer/songwriters of all-time who almost no one has ever heard of. His lyrics are highly original and moving, his melodies and simplicity are to beholden. He is as powerful a singer songwriter as there has ever been, and probably ever will be. Lyrically, he is as good as Dylan, maybe even better. Sounds a bit like Dylan, but smoother. You should hear his song: Jane S. Piddy- wow, hard not to distinguish that from Dylan.
Below is one of numerous evocative songs he wrote (in fact, of the songs he wrote, there was hardly a bad one).
CAUSE
Cause I lost my job two weeks before Christmas And I talked to Jesus at the sewer And the Pope said it was none of his God-damned business
While the rain drank champagne My Estonian Archangel came and got me wasted Cause the sweetest kiss I ever got is the one I’ve never tasted Oh but they’ll take their bonus pay to Molly McDonald, Neon ladies, beauty is that which obeys, is bought or borrowed
Cause my heart’s become a crooked hotel full of rumours But it’s I who pays the rent for these fingered-face out-of-tuners and I make 16 solid half hour friendships every evening
Cause your queen of hearts who is half a stone And likes to laugh alone is always threatening you with leaving Oh but they play those token games on Willy Thompson And give a medal to replace the son of Mrs. Annie Johnson
Cause they told me everybody’s got to pay their dues And I explained that I had overpaid them So overdued I went to the company store and the clerk there said that they had just been invaded So I set sail in a teardrop and escaped beneath the doorsill
Cause the smell of her perfume echoes in my head still Cause I see my people trying to drown the sun In weekends of whiskey sours Cause how many times can you wake up in this comic book and plant flowers?
Love that line- I make 16 solid half hour friendships every evening- this is not hyperbole- before you judge what I’m saying, if you can’t be bothered listening to one of his albums, then simply get: Rodriguez at his Best, and if you aren’t enamoured with it after your first listen, I’ll eat my hat!
By KC
September 21, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
I agree with Lew. There is no reason why the Braves can’t win between 90-100 games next season, or if all goes really well… even more than 100.
Forget the fact that we’re getting Hampton and a couple of our better bullpen hands back… If we had Wickman from day-1, we’d be on track for a 90-plus win season this year.
By Georgetown Kid
September 21, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
Some thoughts on the Hudson issue:
I don’t realistically envision Hudson being traded, as I don’t envision many teams being very interested in a mediocre pitcher making all-star money. Were Hudson to be traded, I don’t think we would get much in return.
Some possibilities: a) We recieve a starting pitcher in return. But how good would that pitcher be? Why would any team part with a quality starter in exchange for Hudson?
b) We recieve a position player in return. If this position player plays LF and can leadoff, this might be an enticing scenario. But we would then have to sign another starting pitcher in the open market, which we don’t have the resources to do. Or, we would have to trade position players for a starting pitcher. In that case, only Giles and Andruw are realistic trading pieces.
c) We could exchange Hudson for draft picks and prospects, and thereby benefit from the salary dump. This might be out best option, as our farm system is not exactly overflowing with high-level talent (see the records of our AAA, AA, A teams). However, if we trade Hudson for prospects, we again have to sign a free-agent pitcher. In the upcoming free-agent market, I doubt we would find someone much better than Hudson.
Given these options, I am afraid that we are probably stuck with Tim Hudson.
We can take solace with the knowledge that other top-tier starters have had sub-par seasons in the middle of their careers (Glavin, Clemens) only to rebound. Let’s collectively hope that Hudson does the same.
I still believe that if we want to acquire a solid starting pitcher, we will have to give up some quality players in return. If that is indeed the case, with whom shall we part?
By Georgetown Kid
September 21, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this
Some thoughts on the Hudson issue:
I don’t realistically envision Hudson being traded, as I don’t envision many teams being very interested in a mediocre pitcher making all-star money. Were Hudson to be traded, I don’t think we would get much in return.
Some possibilities: a) We recieve a starting pitcher in return. But how good would that pitcher be? Why would any team part with a quality starter in exchange for Hudson?
b) We recieve a position player in return. If this position player plays LF and can leadoff, this might be an enticing scenario. But we would then have to sign another starting pitcher in the open market, which we don’t have the resources to do. Or, we would have to trade position players for a starting pitcher. In that case, only Giles and Andruw are realistic trading pieces.
c) We could exchange Hudson for draft picks and prospects, and thereby benefit from the salary dump. This might be out best option, as our farm system is not exactly overflowing with high-level talent (see the records of our AAA, AA, A teams). However, if we trade Hudson for prospects, we again have to sign a free-agent pitcher. In the upcoming free-agent market, I doubt we would find someone much better than Hudson.
Given these options, I am afraid that we are probably stuck with Tim Hudson.
We can take solace with the knowledge that other top-tier starters have had sub-par seasons in the middle of their careers (Glavin, Clemens) only to rebound. Let’s collectively hope that Hudson does the same.
I still believe that if we want to acquire a solid starting pitcher, we will have to give up some quality players in return. If that is indeed the case, with whom shall we part?
By Bravo Nam
September 21, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
Apologies for my triple post there- not Stinky’s fault! This blog keeps doing weird things- everything from messages not being posted for 10 minutes to the latest- immediate sending yet doesn’t appear immediately- this is what got me confused and why there are 3 posts.
By Georgetown Kid
September 21, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
Some thoughts on the Hudson issue:
I don’t realistically envision Hudson being traded, as I don’t envision many teams being very interested in a mediocre pitcher making all-star money. Were Hudson to be traded, I don’t think we would get much in return.
Some possibilities: a) We recieve a starting pitcher in return. But how good would that pitcher be? Why would any team part with a quality starter in exchange for Hudson?
b) We recieve a position player in return. If this position player plays LF and can leadoff, this might be an enticing scenario. But we would then have to sign another starting pitcher in the open market, which we don’t have the resources to do. Or, we would have to trade position players for a starting pitcher. In that case, only Giles and Andruw are realistic trading pieces.
c) We could exchange Hudson for draft picks and prospects, and thereby benefit from the salary dump. This might be out best option, as our farm system is not exactly overflowing with high-level talent (see the records of our AAA, AA, A teams). However, if we trade Hudson for prospects, we again have to sign a free-agent pitcher. In the upcoming free-agent market, I doubt we would find someone much better than Hudson.
Given these options, I am afraid that we are probably stuck with Tim Hudson.
We can take solace with the knowledge that other top-tier starters have had sub-par seasons in the middle of their careers (Glavin, Clemens) only to rebound. Let’s collectively hope that Hudson does the same.
I still believe that if we want to acquire a solid starting pitcher, we will have to give up some quality players in return. If that is indeed the case, with whom shall we part?
By Lew
September 21, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this
KC-I, too hope for a Hudson turnaround, but have yet to see enough consistency to want to hold my breath and turn purple. You speak of a 12-13 4.92 season. Dude, that is almost what he has now. What indication have you had that he can turn it around? He wasn’t a world beater last year, either, and was injured the previous season. Three straight years of declining performance is not making me warm and fuzzy. I hope he can rebound, but……
By journalist jimmy smith
September 21, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
journalist will start with baseball … journalist thinks baseball the perfect game (except for the wild card, 5-game playoffs, and the designated hitter) and journalist is a loyal fan of the atlanta braves. go braves!
now, the dob atlanta braves man in black blog … journalist has had much fun with the blog and the many, many, nice folks here. not much fun here today, though, for jimmy smith. journalist opened the blog today to find journalist’s name everywhere. even the fresh, new blog. the 1:49 PM post is a good one, worthy of this journalist, but is not from jimmy smith. the posts on the earlier blog, with ugliness, do not belong to jimmy smith either. other bloggers probably already knew that - but journalist wanted to make sure you know.
the 1:49 post attributed to this journalist is so good that this journalist sees no more need for this journalist on the blog. a successor has been found.
so, journalist will let the ugly blogger blog himself out. the blogger will likely make liberal use of the jimmy smith name - but rest assured it is not jimmy smith.
the ugliness has become tiresome to this journalist. journalist jimmy smith is leaving the blog - will post no more- and bids all a fond farewell. jimmy smith out.
By Don
September 21, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
i’ve said once, twice, even three times since July, get rid of Hudson. Don’t worry about what players you get in return. Save the $$$ and redeploy elsewhere.
By KC
September 21, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
JG:
If 84 wins would win (or even tie) for the Wild Card, I would agree with you. However, the odds of both Phili and LA playing no better than .500 the rest of the way are fairly slim, especially with the way the Philies have been playing.
I think it’s probably going to take 85 or possibly even 86 wins to tie for the wild card. Those win totals are mathematically out of reach even if we run the table.
By Lew
September 21, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
On the double posts-After you post, just go back to the AJC front page. Your post will appear without posting twice.
By TennesseePaul
September 21, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
Lew: Another point to that, both those guys are potential 1 year rentals. They are both free agents after 2007. That weakens the trade value a tad bit.
By Georgetown Kid
September 21, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
Dearest friends,
My sincerest apologies for the multiple posts. I recieved error messages when attempting to post my comments, and was unaware that my posts were recieved.
I guess I’m the annoying guy today.
By AZBravoFan
September 21, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
Trade Andruw for Sheffield??? If they get rid of Andruw they’ve got to do a LOT better than that. Anyone recall a big hit that Sheffield had in 2 post-seasons with Atlanta? Exactly.
By Don
September 21, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
Get rid of Hudson! do not worry about the players you get in return. Save the $$$ and redeploy.
By Don
September 21, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
Get rid of Hudson! do not worry about the players you get in return. Save the $$$ and redeploy.
By Don
September 21, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
Get rid of Hudson! do not worry about the players you get in return. Save the $$$ and redeploy.
By geauxbraves2000
September 21, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
GKid, I really don’t care who they get in return for Hudson, I just want the Braves to get his 2008 & beyond $$ off of the books. Thank him, give him a gold watch and wish him well.
I really do hope Huddy turns it around.
Geaux Braves!!
By Stinky
September 21, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this
I’ll miss you jimmy!!!!
By Don
September 21, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
Get rid of Hudson! do not worry about the players you get in return. Save the $$$ and redeploy.
By Bravo Nam
September 21, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
AZBravoFan Excellent point! Everyone is always complaining about the Bravos bombing out in the playoffs- Sheffiled bombed in every playoff series- the last two years AJ has been hitting over .500.
By Lew
September 21, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this
Georgetown Kid-Dude, you’re not annoying-the system is.
By Kentavo
September 21, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this
I cannot believe people think Reitsma is an answer. You never want him in a game with it on the line, no matter what inning it is. They guys does not have it.
By geauxbraves2000
September 21, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
This blog is going to be bogged down rather quickly with these AJC issues. I too had a double post but know I only posted it once. It refreshed to a blank page so I went back the front page and found later my post had posted twice.
So with that, everyone have a nice day. AJC needs to get these issues fixed or it’s going to be a long night on the blog waiting for pages to refresh.
Here’s to hoping the Braves win 10 in a row and all of the other pieces fall in place. No, not likely, and I know this postseason will more than likely not include the Braves, but it’s still nice to know they still have a chance, even if it’s less than 1%. That’s still more than 0%.
Geaux Braves
By JG
September 21, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this
KC, agreed the WC could definitely be 85-86 wins, I’m just predicting based off the last half of the season. Since the all-star break, the WC has ebbed and flowed between 82 and 84 wins. Even when the Reds got really hot it never went above 85. So I’ve settled on 84-78 (5-5 is entirely possible for the leaders considering everyone is floundering around .500)as the barometer. Once we hit 79 losses, I’ll wave the white flag.
By Lew
September 21, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this
Stinky-How can you possibly be lonely. In the immortal words of Ian Hunter, “You’re never alone with a schizophrenic”.
By Andy
September 21, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this
I believe the yankees would gamble on hudson—bo sox-the white sox.
By Lew
September 21, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
Come On everyone-Optimism is a wonderful thing, but this is sheer desperation. The Braves are NOT going to the playoffs. Philly has an 8-3 record over their last eleven. This is well enough over .500 to all but count the Braves out. Next year.
By Stinky
September 21, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
in the immortal words of journalist jimmy smith “Oh the humanity!”
By KC
September 21, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
Lew:
I know those are pretty much his numbers this year… that’s why I used them.
I just still can’t get my arms around the notion that Hudson has been steadily declining. His ERA last year was only ever so slightly above what his career ERA was heading into last season. Now of course because he was only two years removed from a CY Young caliber season, that was what everyone was hoping to see from him, but I thought (with the exception of game-1 of the NLDS) he did a great job last year. Again, he really and truly should have won at least 18 games last year. With even so much as an average bullpen behind him, he would have done just that. On what planet would a, lets say… 18-7, 3.52 season not be considered a success? He couldn’t control the win situation, but his ERA was excellent… certainly by today’s standards.
So I’m sorry… I’m just not on the same wavelength with you, DOB, and others who act like Hudson’s been in a downward spiral ever since dawning a Braves uni. I just don’t think the numbers support that. If he had finished with an ERA of close to 4.00 last year, then I might be able to see that, but 3.52 is almost exactly what he had done his previous year in Oakland… and it’s a pretty darn good ERA. I will be thrilled if he simply pitches next year as he did last season.
As for this season… it’s been a train wreck. He’s been the Hudson of old in a number of starts, but has been very inconsistent.
Let’s reverse this: If a player, we’ll call him Joe Blow, posts an ERA of between 4.50-5.00 for 7 years, and then finishes one season with a 3.25 ERA… would we all be ready to call him an ACE? Yet after 7 stellar seasons, Hudson has one bad year and everyone’s ready to declare him a has-been. I don’t get it. I can’t predict the future… maybe Hudson’s best days are behind him. But based on his track record, I just don’t think it any more reasonable to expect terrible things from Huddy next season than it would be to expect Joe Blow to repeat his performance.
By Patrick
September 21, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
DOB-
Please tell me that you think trading Andruw would be the worst move for the Braves. Just look at the trade that some Braves fans’ wanted to make at the deadline. Andruw for John Lester, Craig Hansen and Coco Crisp. Is that a joke!? Two unproven pitchers and a well below average position player. And looking back on it now, Lester possible could never pitch again, Hansen got sent down to the minors and Crisp has slid even further and the Red Sox front office admitted that he’s been a disappointment.
I just don’t see any upside trading away a superstar. History shows it rarely works out for the team getting just prospects in return-unless you’re the Flordia Marlins, but that doesn’t matter because in a few years none of the players on their roster will be playing there anymore
By Lew
September 21, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
Stinky-Next year for you too. Enjoy yourselves. Later
By KC
September 21, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
JG, If the Braves sweep the Rockies, that would certainly peek my interest… Especially if the Phillies and Dodgers drop a couple over that stretch. But it’s a lot to hope for, so I’m going to continue to look toward next year, but I too will keep watching.
By Lew
September 21, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
KC-Yes, his ERA last year was similar to his lifetime ERA, but he came to the NL, where it should have gone DOWN, by as much as a run per 9 innings.
By will
September 21, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
As bad as I hate to admit it, the run is over…so let’s bust up the team and start over. Start with the Jones boys, then Giles. Get any younger cheaper position players with high upsides you can. Don’t touch our starters, at least not now. Let’s see how they do when healthy. My only untouchable position players would be McCann, LaRoche, Renteria, Francoeur and Diaz. As for the bullpen, I’d leave it wide open for tryouts next spring, with the exception of Reitsma…I’m never gonna forgive him for trying pitch with numb fingers or whatever it was when he could see he was hurting the team. Reckon I could be GM for a few months this winter??
By KC
September 21, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
Patrick:
If you feel like you’ll be able to resign him, we need to try. The only senario I think makes sense for trading Andruw would be if we could land Soriano this winter (though I doubt we’ll even seriously try).
Would I rather have Soriano than Andruw? I’m not sure. Would I rather have Soriano plus what we could get in return for Andruw? Absolutely.
By The Grinch
September 21, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
Journalist Jimmy; I sincerely hope you’re not really leaving the blog. Of course, I have no way of knowing if that post was really you or not. If it was, though, surely you’ll see that your departure would only serve to make you know who happy? Why would you want that? Stand tall, man! I’m off to the gym; I hope to see you again here later.
By Lew
September 21, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
Patrick-You’re right, but Lester was NOT offered. JS asked for him and the talks were stopped. Cereal Man and an unproven pitcher is not worth losing an Andruw Jones typical season. Even if he does leave as a free agent.
By KC
September 21, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
LEW:
By as much as a run per 9 innings???!!!!!!!!
It may surprise you to know that the American League has scored only 5% more runs this year than the National League. (When figuring the math on this, I did take into account that there are 2 fewer teams in the AL than there are in the NL.)
You’re saying that a pitcher’s ERA should drop by 28% just by switching leagues when the difference between offense in each league is only 5%.
By journalist jimmy smith
September 21, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
Grinch - esteemed journalist must retire to the blogless life as the Braves season comes to a close. impersonators of jimmy smith have taken over or many impersonators, stinky. trusty journalist DOB will lead fellow bloggers to baseball offseason in fine form. jimmy out.
By Stinky
September 21, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this
Wow, Jimmy Smith. Trolling for sympathy as usual. What a man. The other Stinky has run you off the blog. Oh, well. There’s more to life than blogging. It had run through my mind that you had been using the Stinky blog name to defame yourself, but I think that’s beneath you. Rest up during the offseason. I will too. Blog Ya next year.
By Tad
September 21, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
Trade Reitsma to Milwaukee and get Jose Capellan back. Then Canadian Chris can be with Kolb and as far away from the Turner Field mound as possible.
By Carolina Lady
September 21, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
DOB, when you get a minute, will you pleeeeeze ask the tech folks to repair whatever it is that needs repairing?? The stuttering and patience-rending delay greatly detracts from the enjoyment one is supposed to derive from blogging. Also, someone needs to take the trash out. Would hate to lose the best blog on the net! :-))
By Robert
September 21, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
The Braves need to take a BIG step
Fire the donkey manager
By knowitall
September 21, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
You all are forgetting one major factor when you are talking about trading Andrew for future prospects: there is no guarantee that Cox and JS will be around then. Wickman gets a 1 year extension, Smoltz and Andrew could be gone after next year. It could be entirely possible that they could load up for one last run. Not saying it’s going to happen but keep that in mind when you think about some of these trade senerios that will pay off 4 or 5 years down the line. Also, JS has never traded proven major league talent for prospects. Never. The Millwood trade was an exception because of the corner that Maddux painted him into. Just something for you to think about.
By tvsportscaster
September 21, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
It’s very likely the starter the Braves will add is a familiar face. I would say there’s a better than 75 percent chance that Tom Glavine will be returning. He’s already said he’ll only play with the Mets or the Braves and the Mets ai’nt gonna pay him the 13 million dollars they’d have to next year. So be ready to welcome Tommy G back.
By Bob, journalist
September 21, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
10Paul, what do you have against Todd Prat as a pinch hitter? … be nice!
It’s a shame we can’t return to days of yesteryear, have some Merita and just support those players we now have … methinks they’re ‘bout as talented a group as I’ve seen in a long time … fan support and intensified coaching would be far better ways to repay them for their efforts that continually offering rationale for discarding them in favor of others … and could have a remarkable impact … there’s not one on the team who wouldn’t benefit from a few good doses of appreciation and fundamental instruction.
Well developed Personas aren’t as easy to duplicate as some might think.
Hi Ho!
By AZBravoFan
September 21, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
Give it up Dodger fans. The game’s over. Hit the freeway. There’s no way they can overcome a 4 run deficit in the ninth. Hell, even if they start a rally, the Padres will just bring in Hoffman. He hasn’t blown a save since the All-Star game. Get over it. It’s over. Move on to the next game.
By ncscoots
September 21, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
While I agree that a PDRSP (proven, durable, reliable starting pitcher) is an offseason need, I’m not really sold on the need to go hunting for high-priced bullpen setup guys. I wager there will be 15 guys at camp trying to take five bullpen spots, and SURELY a couple of those will prove to be the real deal. I’m not making judgments on any of the guys who have been down there this year, they’ve all been Beauty-And-The-Beast at some point. Don’t know if they are as bad or as good as they have looked at times, ‘cause they sure have been overexposed. How many guys do Braves have down there right now with 60+ appearances? More than a couple, I bet. Anyhow, some of those guys like Ray and Yates could step up next year. Or maybe it’s a whole new cast. Either way, I don’t think it’s an overriding concern, and I think solidifying the rotation is.
By gpburdell
September 21, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this
In 1964, the Phillies had a six and a half game lead on the Cardinals with 12 to play and lost the pennant. It’s why they play the games. You just never know, as long as there is a chance.
Realistically, Hudson isn’t going anywhere. Maybe if he has a good year next year, it would be possible…but if he has a good year next year, you’re not going to want to trade him. Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James, Ramirez, and Davies…not a bad six-pack of choices for the rotation. As we have seen this year, you can never have too much starting pitching.
By TennesseePaul
September 21, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
Bob: The .180 batting average.
By Patrick
September 21, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
You’re right Lew—
I forgot to put in there that I did know that Lester being included killed the deal and that Boston never offered. From other boards though, there were people salivating over the possibility of getting those three. And that trade or one similar to it would not impress me one bit
By Big Braves Fan
September 21, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, terrific post!!!! Don’t let anyone hold down your optimism. Yeah, it’s unlikely, but stranger things have happened. This team is capable of a 9-1 stretch, which is what it will take (with help from Florida, of course). Regarding 2007, DOB, do you get any sense that the organization sees next year as its last real shot before rebuilding? If you look at the contracts already in place, and take into account the Wickman signing and Cox’s and JS’s advancing age…I don’t know, it just seems to me they are loading up for a last-ditch one-year run at it.
By David O'Brien
September 21, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this
Patrick, sorry, but I can’t tell you that trading Andruw would be the worst move. Because it all depends on 1. Their chances of signing him at a reasonable rate (not $17-18 mill a year), and 2. what they’d get in return. If you could get someone in a weak moment, get a GM to give up someone like Kazmir or some other outstanding young starter, plus a couple of other top young prospects or young stud players, then you have to listen. But only if you get a load of top young talent.
KC, why do I need to explain why I think the rotation is thin going in 2007, when I spent much of the blog explaining why I think they need another starter? That’s called redundancy, and I’m not going to do it.
Just remember, plenty of folks thought the Braves had more than enough starting pitching going into this season. That didn’t work out so well.
Gotta get down to the clubhouse now.
By Lew
September 21, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this
KC-All right. Maybe not a run a game, but it still should have come down. I’m not really in favor of trading Hudson (see Head Coach’s can’t have too much pitching), but if he doesn’t come around in 07 and his salary more than doubles in 08, than that’s it. We will not be able to dump him on anyone. It just might be more realistic to get what we can now and spend the $6mil on someone else. However, I doubt that will happen. I just hope he gets his excrement together next year. $13.5 is a lot to pay for a #4 starter.
By MT
September 21, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this
Braves exercised Smoltz’s option!!! WOOHOO!!! Go out and win tonight, Smoltzie!
By gpburdell
September 21, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this
Don’t read too much into Wickman signing only a one-year contract. That has been his pattern for the last few years. He says he doesn’t want the club getting stuck with a bad contract if something happens next year. He seems like a pretty stand-up guy.
By gpburdell
September 21, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this
Don’t read too much into Wickman signing only a one-year contract. That has been his pattern for the last few years. He says he doesn’t want the club getting stuck with a bad contract if something happens next year. He seems like a pretty stand-up guy.
By David O'Brien
September 21, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this
THIS JUST IN: Braves have exercised Smoltz’s option for next season. No surprise there, only perhaps that they did it before end of regular season. Anyway, it’s exercised.
By Tony Almeida
September 21, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this
Smoltzie heard about the Wickman signing and went up to see homeboy and put him in his place…atta boy Smoltzie.
By gpburdell
September 21, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this
Don’t read too much into Wickman signing only a one-year contract. That has been his pattern for the last few years. He says he doesn’t want the club getting stuck with a bad contract if something happens next year. He seems like a pretty stand-up guy.
By gpburdell
September 21, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this
Don’t read too much into Wickman signing only a one-year contract. That has been his pattern for the last few years. He says he doesn’t want the club getting stuck with a bad contract if something happens next year. He seems like a pretty stand-up guy.
By Patrick
September 21, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this
Not that it should matter but since Shuerholtz is notorious for not making moves until the offseason, it should make Smoltz feel appreciated that he did it now.
By Robert
September 21, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this
To Bobby Cox
Please do everything you can to help the Braves win
For the remainder of the season, please throw a donkey sized tantrum before the game begins so that you are ejected before the first pitch is thrown
Then, at the end of the season, please retire.
That would make us Braves fans very happy. You have done enough damage to this team to last a lifetime. Enough is enough. Go away now and we will all be better for it
By Lew
September 21, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this
No Robert-It would make you happy.
By geauxbraves2000
September 21, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this
Okay Robert, we get it, you don’t want Bobby Cox back. Your opinion is duely noted.
Great news about Smoltz! I am very glad they went ahead and announced it. There wasn’t much of a cliff hanger about whether or not they were going to, but after signing The Wick, a very classy act by JS.
Please don’t go away jjs, you are an integral part of this blog and it just won’t be the same without you.
Let’s get a “W” tonight!
Geaux Braves!!
By geauxbraves2000
September 21, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this
Okay Robert, we get it, you don’t want Bobby Cox back. Your opinion is duely noted.
Great news about Smoltz! I am very glad they went ahead and announced it. There wasn’t much of a cliff hanger about whether or not they were going to, but after signing The Wick, a very classy act by JS.
Please don’t go away jjs, you are an integral part of this blog and it just won’t be the same without you.
Let’s get a “W” tonight!
Geaux Braves!!
By Carolina Lady
September 21, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this
Evenin’, Lew! Bobby Cox’s winning record speaks for itself, as do accolades from players, managers, and ‘real’ baseball people. Our friend somehow overlooks all of that in his predjudice.
Just got the note - THANKS!! It’s arrival will be a surprise for a certain young lady. You’ll probably be able to hear her delighted squeal all the way up there in VT.! :-))
Journalist Bob, how’s the elbow? made me hurt just to read of your misadventure! Ouch!!
journalist jimmy smith does not have permission to leave the blog. This lady’s heart would be broken! :-(
By Thomas
September 21, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this
Smoltz, Wickman, who’s next Giles, or Baez. Smoltz 8 million, Wickman 5 million, Giles 4.37 million, and Baez 1.5 million. People leaving Chris Reitsma 2 million, John Thomson 4.75 million, Brian Jordan 1.75 million, who else.
By Thomas
September 21, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this
Smoltz, Wickman, who’s next Giles, or Baez. Smoltz 8 million, Wickman 5 million, Giles 4.37 million, and Baez 1.5 million. People leaving Chris Reitsma 2 million, John Thomson 4.75 million, Brian Jordan 1.75 million, who else.
By Bo
September 21, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this
Baez has said he wants to stay in Atlanta, its close to his home in Fla. I bet he will sign cheaper with the Braves if they move now. WHAT HAPPENS IF WICKMAN GETS HURT? Danny Baez would be good Cheap insurance. Where else are you going to get 90 plus saves in 3 years for 5 million. Thompson makes that much and stays on DL two years. Look what REITSMA MAKES AND HE WAS A JOKE THIS YEAR. sign Baez NOW!!!!!!!!
By Lew
September 21, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this
Evening, Ma’am-You are both welcome. Enjoy. Thomas, Baez makes more than $1.5. He will probably be closer to $5 mil. The people leaving should net us about $12.5 million, though your figures are off a bit. Wicky just signed for $6.5 mil. Smoltz contract for 07 saves $2 mil over this year also. However, Giles is due a raise to about $5mil and LaRoche will probably go from .5 mil to $2.5, so some of that savings will have to cover raises in arbitration. I think Horacio is due arbitration, also.
By Thomas
September 21, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this
Mike Hampton 14 million
Andruw Jones 13.5 million
Chipper Jones 11 million
Tim Hudson 11 million
John Smolz 8 million
Edgar Renteria 8 million
Bob Wickman 5 million
Marcus Giles 4.75 million
Horacio Ramirez 2.2 million
10.Danny Baez 1.5 million
Todd Pratt 850,000
Brian Jordan 700,000
Daryle Ward 700,000
Oscar Villarreal 462,500
Adam LaRoche 420,000
Jeff Francoeur 384,500
John Foster 350,000
Ryan Langerhans 345,000
Lance Cormier 345,000
Pete Orr 340,000
Kelly Johnson 336,000
Blaine Boyer 336,000
Kyle Davies 333,500
Brian McCann 333,500
Macay McBride 332,000
Matt Diaz 330,000
Chuck James 327,000
_______+
86.250 million
By Thomas
September 21, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this
Mike Hampton 14 million
Andruw Jones 13.5 million
Chipper Jones 11 million
Tim Hudson 11 million
John Smolz 8 million
Edgar Renteria 8 million
Bob Wickman 5 million
Marcus Giles 4.75 million
Horacio Ramirez 2.2 million
10.Danny Baez 1.5 million
Todd Pratt 850,000
Brian Jordan 700,000
Daryle Ward 700,000
Oscar Villarreal 462,500
Adam LaRoche 420,000
Jeff Francoeur 384,500
John Foster 350,000
Ryan Langerhans 345,000
Lance Cormier 345,000
Pete Orr 340,000
Kelly Johnson 336,000
Blaine Boyer 336,000
Kyle Davies 333,500
Brian McCann 333,500
Macay McBride 332,000
Matt Diaz 330,000
Chuck James 327,000
_______+
86.250 million
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
September 21, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this
Okay, the exercising of Smoltz’s option was another great move by JS. But, he is far from done. Next, is Andruw. I have said and will continue to say that the Braves have to give an ultimatium to Andruw that he sign an extension now or he will be shopped for a trade. Now, of course, Andruw can reject any deal. If Andruw plays hard ball and rejects any deal presented, the Braves are between a rock and a hard place but so is Andruw. Andruw would damage the rep he has a “team” player and a guy who is not difficult. I think other teams will look at the hardlining and while they’ll offer him a contract it won’t include the no trade clasue that so many free agents want nowadays. If Andruw really wants to stay in Atlanta he will sign a deal for $14 or so and filled with incentives.
The next move should actually be signing Ward and Diaz and that should be done here in the next week or so also. Then, in the offseason the process of finding a leadoff hitter, starter, and bullpen help should begin.
I disagree with those who say JS won’t be that busy in the winter. I think he’ll be very busy because he has learned his lessons and he knows there is no time to balk. Also, depending on the future owners view on payroll, I think the Braves should do what the Mets did and lock up Francoeur, McCann, James, and LaRoche now. Back load the contracts so it doesn’t hurt the payroll now and by the time the big money kicks in the big contracts of C. Jones, Hampton, and Hudson will be gone.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
September 21, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this
Okay, the exercising of Smoltz’s option was another great move by JS. But, he is far from done. Next, is Andruw. I have said and will continue to say that the Braves have to give an ultimatium to Andruw that he sign an extension now or he will be shopped for a trade. Now, of course, Andruw can reject any deal. If Andruw plays hard ball and rejects any deal presented, the Braves are between a rock and a hard place but so is Andruw. Andruw would damage the rep he has a “team” player and a guy who is not difficult. I think other teams will look at the hardlining and while they’ll offer him a contract it won’t include the no trade clasue that so many free agents want nowadays. If Andruw really wants to stay in Atlanta he will sign a deal for $14 or so and filled with incentives.
The next move should actually be signing Ward and Diaz and that should be done here in the next week or so also. Then, in the offseason the process of finding a leadoff hitter, starter, and bullpen help should begin.
I disagree with those who say JS won’t be that busy in the winter. I think he’ll be very busy because he has learned his lessons and he knows there is no time to balk. Also, depending on the future owners view on payroll, I think the Braves should do what the Mets did and lock up Francoeur, McCann, James, and LaRoche now. Back load the contracts so it doesn’t hurt the payroll now and by the time the big money kicks in the big contracts of C. Jones, Hampton, and Hudson will be gone.
By Thomas
September 21, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this
Robert Andruw still has another year in his contract next year they’ll start the negotiation.
By Thomas
September 21, 2006 07:42 PM | Link to this
Robert Andruw still has another year in his contract next year they’ll start the negotiation.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
September 21, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this
Right, Lew. Horacio will make a little change. Giles will surely make $5 mil especially with his resurgance in the second half. That is why he has to be traded. He is too expensive for the Braves when considering they have other viable options but at $5 mil he isn’t that expensive for other teams. A team like the Angles could be in the market for a 2B and could bring something in return.
They can’t trade away LaRoche because he is on the verge of being a breakout star and the Braves don’t have a true viable option there. Yes, there’s Salty but I think at this point LaRoche at $2 mil is the better option.
Of all the starters, Horacio is the most tradeable and expendable. Hudson should be shopped too but with that backloaded contract he could be difficult. In fact, if payroll doesn’t increase 2008 will be a very intersting season. How are the Braves going to compensate for that extra $7 mil unless they get rid of Smoltz. Again, if someone will take Hudson this winter (Red Sox, Yankees, Blue Jays, Dodgers, Astros) then it would be awfully smart to send him packing don’t you think?
By Thomas
September 21, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this
Braves playing Colorado today Helton is Batting fifth, what the hell is happening did they get Big Papi, and Pujols for their lineup.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
September 21, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this
Thomas, they need to start negotiating an extension now. If he doesn’t want to resign and test the free agent market, that is something that has to be known now. They can then begin shopping him around. Waiting to next season is very risky because if Andruw spurns them and lets say they realize this in May they are in no man’s land. If they know now, they can set the roster and go into spring training knowing exactly what they have. I don’t want to trade Andruw but if he isn’t going to resign then we have to get something for him other tban some draft picks which might not even be available because there is talk of getting rid of the compensation draft picks for free agents.
By Thomas
September 21, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this
Robert trade Laroche, what is wrong with you he has become a star hitting 290 32HR 93 RBI 10 games to go. Yesterday you said that if Andruw when to the AL he wil DH…..
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
September 21, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this
Thomas, they need to start negotiating an extension now. If he doesn’t want to resign and test the free agent market, that is something that has to be known now. They can then begin shopping him around. Waiting to next season is very risky because if Andruw spurns them and lets say they realize this in May they are in no man’s land. If they know now, they can set the roster and go into spring training knowing exactly what they have. I don’t want to trade Andruw but if he isn’t going to resign then we have to get something for him other tban some draft picks which might not even be available because there is talk of getting rid of the compensation draft picks for free agents.
By Rosalynn
September 21, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this
Jimma and I were at the last game and Jimma said to me, “Rosalyn that boy don’t look right.” Jimma was talking about Chippa. Jimma said he thought Chippa’s shoes might be too tight. Chippa wears some special shoes made by a Japanese cobbla. Anyway, Jimma and I were talking when a foul ball came right at us! The Secret Service jumped all ova Jimma trying to protect him and in the process they caused a fan to spill a beah on me! Imagine this, for I have never had a beah in my life and now, I smelled like a beah! Even Billa never spilled a beah around me. The purpose of this post is to request no more beah sales at Ted Turna Field. Peanuts, yes. Beah, no. Also, I wanted you to know that Jimma spotted this toe problem with Chippa long before the soa toe last night. Jimma used to be on a submarine and he knows a lot.
By ncscoots
September 21, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this
Robert, please elaborate on “viable options” at 2nd, and your reasoning on thinking so. I’d be interested in seeing that. For example, if Prado is one of those options, you might project his offensive numbers…or any of your other options, that would be good. Just interested in seeing your thoughts.
By Thomas
September 21, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this
went to the AL
By geauxbraves2000
September 21, 2006 08:04 PM | Link to this
Anyone else seeing double?
By Thomas
September 21, 2006 08:09 PM | Link to this
Andruws contract ends on 2008, his agent is the one of Alex Rodriges Scott Borras, 80 percent he is gon to Free agency. Isay that if the braves trade hampton they have a shot at andruw.
By Bob, journalist
September 21, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this
10 Paul, methinks .180 would be a lofty goal for Guy.
My Lady, thanks for the concern! The elbow is better … just a dull ache in the elbow, wrist and fingers, but should be fine in a couple.
I contacted Lamont about the status of Andruw’s resigning … nothing to report … he assured me that while Kent Allard knew, he wasn’t talking!
Lew, if you’re givin’ away free stuff, I’ll give you my address!
Jimmy, that Candy Company is slower than mollasas!
By paul Hamilton
September 21, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this
Ummm Hudson isn’t making 11 million. Also the Braves supposedly averaged Hamptons contract with the Marlins paying a portion, so his number isn’t necessarily the exact amount of the years salary. Thompson, Jordan, and Pratt are all on the way out. I also think Giles will definitely get traded. He rebounded pretty well this season and I guarantee someone with needs at the position would love to get him at around 5million, down year and all. If the Braves can find a quality setup man than I’m liking the Braves on paper a lot better than this year. A new pitching coach would also be on my radar if someone of quality was available. I also believe as bad as Hudson has been he will get some trade interest in hopes of him igniting his pitching with a change of scenery.
By Bob, journalist
September 21, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this
Interesting dialog but Rosalynn doesn’t talk/sound anything like that.
By Bob, journalist
September 21, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this
Just got this message about 3 minutes ago (7:50 Central Time): “In an effort to curb malicious comment posting by abusive users, I’ve enabled a feature that requires a weblog commenter to wait a short amount of time before being able to post again. Please try to post your comment again in a short while. Thanks for your patience.”
What a joke!
Congratulations! That certainly seems like an effective way to curb the blog abuse that we’ve been experiencing!!
My immediate reaction: Would someone please email me when the AJC realizes that proper problem identification is a prerequisite for proper problem resolution and their trainees have been replaced with moderately qualified folks … I’ll return when something resembling order has been restored.
By Rosalynn
September 21, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this
Well, deah stars, how do I talk and sound? Have we met? I know several Journalists named Bob. Bob Schieffer, Bob Edwards, Bob Novak, Bob Considine. Joda Powell could probably remind me of some moah Bobs. Are you one of these Bob’s? Well, Jimma and I are just enjoyan the games so much this yeah that I have suggested to Jimmma that he buy this team and move it to Plains. One of ouhr children could run the team for us. And, Scoots, darlin’, Jimma and I used to go to a little place called Scoots Creek in North Carolina. Are you from theah?
By journalist jimmy smith
September 21, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this
Oh the humanity!
By David O'Brien
September 21, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this
Thomas, just glancing at your figures and noticed you have Hampton at $14 mill. While that’s his salary, it’s not the figure the Braves figure into their $80 mill payroll, in case you’re wondering. They count their $8 mill average annual commitment to him, rather than actual amount they’re paying each year, because they paid him almost nothing in his first three seasons with team (colorado and florida paid most).
Also, insurance paid a good chunk of it this year.
By JJMB
September 21, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this
Rosalyn, how does it feel to have sex with the worst president of all time?
By Rosalynn
September 21, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this
Jimma acts like he knows how to hammah but he does not hammah well. I know there is a commercial running now and Jimma is holding a big, red hammah. Well, Jimma has a birthday coming up very soon and I want to buy him a nice birdhouse. He has tried and tried to build a birdhouse but he always ends up with a busted thumb and a Secret Service man having to bring him in the house to clean him up. Jimma always throws his hammah when he hits his thumb and we have lost some good workers because of this. I was directed to this blog because I understand you have a birdhouse builder on staff here. Is this correct and do you take American Express? Please don’t identify me when you respond because I feah identity theft since Jimma carries a high line of credit with American Express. That Jody Powell was such a nice boy. Grew up in Cordele not too far from Jimma and me. I wonder if Jody knows this Bob who blogs heah?
By Jimbo
September 21, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this
DOB Quit Blogging and PAY ATTENTION TO THE GAME!! My newspaper dollars shouldn’t be wasted here!!!
By Carolina Lady
September 21, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this
DOB whoever is monkeying around with your blog is about to run everybody off. Submissions are difficult, the posting delay is an awful annoyance, and the poster usurping everyone else’s screen names is particularly detrimental to causing people to leave/not post, as well as his personal attacks. Now limiting the number of submissions one can make? Color me gone until the blog is reconstructed and that ugly imposter is banned. It just isn’t fun to be here anymore. Credit the one known by many names. Sorry, DOB. You’re a great guy and I love your work.
By Carolina Lady
September 21, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this
Rosalynn, I do indeed build birdhouses. In fact, a dear friend in GA is awaiting shipment now of a particular house that was ordered. Helped me enormously with an ordering difficulty; a very kind person.
By David O'Brien
September 21, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this
“You’re a sink (bleep), Fink.” (OK, somewhat arcane reference. Great line from great movie, Barton Fink).
Hey, just doing some numbers crunching during this tedious game. Check this out. The next time someone says you can’t win a pennant in April, tell them, no, but you can lose the wild card in June:
The Braves went 3-20 from April 29 to June 22. They were 44-35 since (before tonight).
The records for some other pertinent teams after June 22: San Diego (41-38), Los Angeles (42-38), Philadelphia (44-36), Florida (44-39), San Francisco (39-40), Cincinnati (35-44), Houston (36-42), Arizona (36-42), and Mets (47-32).
The 3-1/2 weeks that ruined a season.
By Rosalynn
September 21, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady, do Jimma and I know you? Could you be one of the Thurmond girls? Or perhaps, you are from North Carolina. Do you know Dot Helms? She is such a deah. One time Jesse Helms came up behind me in the Rose Garden and … I almost had the vapuhs! That Jesse Helms was such a cut-up. Jimma thinks that Elizabeth Dole is smarter than Bob Dole but can’t go on record saying so. I guess I may as well talk some baseball while I am heah. When will Andruw stop falling down when he swings? That young man may have some tender toes like Chippa.
By Head Coach
September 21, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this
BOB , nice article on Smoltz getting his option picked up. But , he has 15 postseasom wins. not 14 and you can tell Tom A. Hawk thats a major league record , lol.
By sink (bleep), Fink
September 21, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this
I’ve got it. Rosalynn is actually Dan Aykroyd.
By Carolina Lady
September 21, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this
Miss Rosalynn, I did have the pleasure to meet you and the President back when he was governor. You were on your way to Fayetteville, NC to visit family. For a number of years I worked with various agencies in Washington so I had the opportunity to meet quite a few of the residents there (temporary or not) including the Dole and Helms families.
There’s no telling about Andruw, but he has put up some good numbers!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
September 21, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this
ncscoots, I think Prado is that viable option at 2nd. I think he can be a good hitter and he definitley is a good defensive player. Is he as good as Giles? No. Could he produce and be suitable in the lineup? Yes.
Thomas, dude, did you read what I said. I never said trade LaRoche. I explicitly said they can’t trade LaRoche.
Also, ncscoots, if the Braves could keep Giles for $3 mil, then I would say keep him. But, they can’t and they have other pressing needs like pitching that Giles could bring in a trade.
By Head Coach
September 21, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this
DOB , nice article on Smoltz getting his option picked up. But , he has 15 postseason wins. Not 14 and you can tell Tom A. Hawk thats a major league record , LOL.
By sink (bleep), Fink
September 21, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this
Rosalynn/Dan, I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it. For congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the webmaster for a redress of grievances.
By Stinky
September 21, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this
Rosalyn is my nemesis journalist jimmy smith, looking for attention, beware. Oh the humanity!
By Rosalynn
September 21, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this
I am attracting some attention on this blog, aren’t I? Already four comments from varied pesonalities interested in my posts. Well, Jimma and I no longer have to put up with the riff-raff. I’ll just ignore these small-minded cretins and go shell some buttahbeans.
By ssiscribe
September 21, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this
Good evening to all out there. The Scribe is checking in, just to see how all are faring tonight.
For those of you who are still rooting for the Bravos, Smoltz and Wickman bulletins from the past two days are good news indeed. Smoltz, back on the relative cheap, for 2007. The closer’s situation filled with Wickman signed for next season for far less than he would’ve commanded on the open market.
Like DOB and others, I won’t dive into AJ or Gilly and their status for next season just yet. However, I’ve had some numbers stuck into my mind in looking back at things:
Braves have, what, 23 blown saves on the season? It may be higher, but I know it’s at least that much. Well, given the ballclub was five games out this morning of the wild card, if Atlanta had went just a shade under .500 in those 23 blown games (11-12), the Braves would have waken up this morning with a six-game lead in the wild-card standings.
THAT’s WHY SIGNING WICKMAN IS SO FREAKIN HUGE!! If we’d had this guy from Lake Buena Vista on, we’d be buying playoff tickets this week.
Alas, at least that’s fixed. Now, time to see what type of leadoff hitter/left fielder we can snag. If it’s Juan Pierre, somebody tell Renteria to work on sprinting to the warning track for cutoffs next season, LOL.
Hard to believe it’s gonna end this week, the postseason streak. Hell, maybe it’s a good thing. Remember, the Yankees lost the first two World Series they played in back in the day. As the wise old journalist who frequents the SSI (where I use to lay my head) wrote at one time, an apprenticeship must be served. Maybe the Baby Braves are serving that appreenticeship as we speak, a prelude for the glory and grand things to come.
The Scribe abides. DOB, enjoy Denver. Here’s hoping for a four-game sweep this weekend.
Later.
—30—
By JJMB
September 21, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this
Jimmy Carter dies, and goes to heaven(?). He bumps into Teddy Roosevelt.
JC: Hey, Teddy! TR: Hello, who are you? JC: Jimmy Carter, I was president of the US, like you were! TR: OH, what happened when you were president? Strong economy? JC: Well, interest rates were 20%… TR: What else happened? JC: Well, the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. TR: I bet you kicked their asses for that! JC: no, we boycotted the Olympics instead… TR: Harumpf! What else happened? JC: Well, the Iranians attacked, and captured our embassy in Tehran. TR: I bet you kicked there asses for that!!! JC: no, I didn’t do anything (for 444 days)… TR: Goddam man!!! The next thing you’re going to tell me is that you gave away the Panama Canal!!!!!!
By Stinky
September 21, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this
Night journalist jimmy!
By NPD
September 21, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this
So predictable jimmy smith—returning as one of your other many alter-egos—Now although you may attempt to impress others with knowlegde and decisiveness, your information base is most likely limited to trivia. Your ideas are seldom original. You choose to quote whoever you feel at the time is an authority, however, your quotations aren’t always accurate as to what your chosen authority meant. Jimmy you make your own interpretations to suit your whims. Others may wonder why you choose a certain individual as an authority since no true validation may exist that this individual is an authority on anything. There is still hope for you jimmy smith. I will be prescribing a detailed treatment plan that deals specifically with your type of mental illness in the coming weeks.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
September 22, 2006 12:08 AM | Link to this
Very interesting what DOB posted about the records since June 22. Basically, what that says is that the Braves along with the Phillies have been the best teams in the NL not named the Mets but because of that horrible June it hasn’t been enough to get into the playoffs.
This team can be not only a playoff contender but a WS contender next year. They have made the first two steps by signing Wickman and Smoltz. I will say again, they need a couple of solid arms in the bullpen. I think they need a true setup guy. I like Paronto and Yates but don’t trust them in that role. They must get a true leadoff hitter who can show patience, get on base, and has some speed to put pressure on the defense and the pitcher. Yes, somone who steals bases. Lastly, I totally agree with DOB about getting another starter. If Hudson stays, it will be him, James, Smoltz, and Hampton in the rotation. That will allow Davies and Cormier to pitch at Richmond and hone their craft a little more. Villereal can go back to the pen. And even if Hudson gets traded, Davies or Cormier could be the 5th starter and the Braves can acquire a solid #3 or #4 starter who will eat up innings and give them 12 or more wins. The question becomes who will be available to do that. If the Mets don’t exercise Glavine’s option, then I think he could be an option. He may consider giving the Braves a huge discount to finish his career as a Brave. If not, I’m sure JS can find someone.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
September 22, 2006 12:12 AM | Link to this
No reason to believe the Braves can’t finish at least at .500 this year. They should win 2 of the 3 remaining games with Colorado. They can take 2 of 3 from the Mets who will be resting their main guys. And they can take two of three from the Astros who will be out of it officially by then.
By Head Coach
September 22, 2006 12:53 AM | Link to this
I’ll say it for the umteenth time , trading starting pitching is a bad idea and your going to get sick of hearing me say it even though its the truth. The Braves are 14-10 in July , 15-13 in August and 12-9 so far in September. folks , they have been a winning baseball team for three months and next season they will be a playoff caliber baseball team. I am a proud Goergia native so I say this with much chagrin . Jimmy Carter was and is a peanut farming pacifist with no backbone to speak of. He was and is a great diplomat , but horribly unsuited for the Presidency. The last two Democratic presidencies have ended in total disgrace and although I am a Republican leaning conservative it distresses me greatly that one political party( the Republicans) have dominated the political landscape of America. This great Country is headed for trouble when one party is allowed to become dominant and the two party system that has served us so well for so long becomes a thing of the past.
By David O'Brien
September 22, 2006 01:47 AM | Link to this
Indeed, it’s 15 postseason wins for Smoltz, not 14. Thanks, head coach. I’ll get it fixed as soon as someone from our online dept gets the e-mail.
By the way, here’s updated game story, since it’s not posted online, figured I’d at least get it to you here (there was also an updated Smoltz option story, with more quotes from Schuerholz, if you want to check back online tomorrow or in your newspaper (most editions), it’ll be there.
By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com
Denver _ Andruw Jones hasn’t hit his weight since late July.
Not even his early career weight.
But when he connects with a pitch _ even falling back, off balance, making hitting coaches and Little League coaches cringe _ he can change a game quickly.
Jones hit a three-run homer in the sixth inning Thursday night, sending John Smoltz and the Braves past Colorado 6-3 in a series opener at Coors Field, Atlanta’s fifth win in six games.
Smoltz (14-9) pitched seven strong innings (nine hits, three runs) a few hours after the Braves announced they would exercise the $8 million option on the 39-year-old’s contract for 2007, his 20th season with Atlanta.
He credited his center fielder for the win.
“Fortunately Andruw Jones _ in a season where there’s been a ton of injuries _ plays every stinking day, makes a great catch in center field and hits a three-run homer,” Smoltz said. “Otherwise, we don’t win the game.”
Smoltz’s seven strikeouts gave him 200 for the season, the fifth time he’s reached that standard and first since piling up 241 in 256 innings in 1997. He tied Bert Blyleven for longest period between 200-strikeout seasons.
“First time in 10 years? He just gets better,” said manager Bobby Cox, whose Braves need to go 7-2 the rest of the way for the franchise’s 16th consecutive winning season.
Cox and everyone else with the Braves saw picking up the option as a foregone conclusion, but Smoltz said it was nice to have it made official before the offseason.
“It is a relief,” Smoltz said. “I’d lie if I said I’ve never concerned myself with that stuff. It’s nice to know that you’ll know your direction in the offseason and you don’t have to concern yourself with that.
“I’m glad I can honestly speak about [being part of] the Braves next season, instead of waiting for it to happen.”
Cox laughed and said, “John’s made a lot of money for me and the coaches here. Hopefully he’ll make us some more.”
While not mathematically eliminated from the wild-card race, the Braves were still 4-1/2 games behind leader Los Angeles before the Dodgers’ late game Thursday, with three other teams between them and the Dodgers.
Willy Aybar gave the Braves some breathing room with a two-run single in the ninth inning for a 6-3 lead, which Bob Wickman protected for his 31st save in 35 chances including 16-of-17 since being traded to the Braves.
Wickman, who signed a one-year, $6.5 million extension on Wednesday, pitched a scoreless ninth inning to whittle his ERA to 0.98 in 29 games since July 1. He’s converted 20 saves in 21 chances in that stretch.
After Jones put Atlanta ahead 4-3 with his 37th homer and third in four games on the trip, Smoltz was tested when the Rockies had runners at first and third with one out in the seventh inning.
He induced a fly to right not deep enough for the Rockies to test Jeff Francoeur’s arm, then struck out hot-hitting Garrett Atkins to escape the jam.
It was the last batter for Smoltz, who allowed three runs and nine hits with no walks and seven strikeouts, giving him 200 strikeouts with 50 walks in 218 innings. He ranks 20th with 2,767 career strikeouts, six behind Frank Tanana
Smoltz shook off a liner to the left shin in the sixth inning and continued.
Jones drove in the Braves’ first four runs with a sacrifice fly in the first inning and his home run off Rockies side-armer Byung-Hyun Kim (8-12), who allowed four hits, four runs and four walks in seven innings.
Jones has a .212 average since July 21, with almost as many homers (13) as singles (16). Despite the low average, he’s driven in 32 runs in that 53-game period, including eight in the first four games of this trip.
“We’re just trying to win every game we can and finish the season strong,” said Jones, who has 120 RBIs, after leading the NL with a career-high 128 in 2005.
The Rockies grabbed a 2-1 lead with two runs in the second inning on a Matt Holliday leadoff homer and a sacrifice fly. It would’ve been worse if Jones hadn’t made a diving catch in the right-center gap to rob Brad Hawpe of an extra-base hit after Todd Helton’s double.
By Head Coach
September 22, 2006 02:06 AM | Link to this
What do you think DOB ? Kenny Lofton , Dave Roberts , Torii Hunter and Juan Pierre are all potential free agent outfielders with just the veteran moxy and speed the Braves have missed this season. I was just wondering if you think the Braves might go after one of them this offseason ?
By Calvin
September 22, 2006 02:19 AM | Link to this
HC, Lofton and Roberts are too old, Pierre is a faster Langerhans with a weaker arm, and Hunter won’t want to play any other place than centerfield, which is occupied by the major’s best centerfielder. I think the best option for a leadoff guy is via trade because there doesn’t seem to be anything out there on the free agent market.
By dunwoody in denver
September 22, 2006 02:25 AM | Link to this
As an ATL/Dunwoody native having lived in Denver for the last 3 years, it’s always strange how the weather is bad whenever the Braves come into town.
Karma?
But seriously, to David and all others reading this blog who think Denver is cold all the time, it’s just the changing of the seasons here (It’ll be 80 next week). We get 80% of our snow in October, March, and April. It’s sunny and 50 degrees the rest of the winter. Heck, it was 70 on Christmas Day last year.
Oh, and David, what do you think about the downtown here? Pretty impressive, huh? There are 10,000 people living downtown as of now, and you probably noticed all the new lofts and condos being built all around Coors Field. If you get the opportunity, go down to the Platte Riverfront park.
I still get homesick for GA, though…
By Head Coach
September 22, 2006 03:54 AM | Link to this
Calvin , Lofton will be 40 next year. Roberts is 34 and that aint old in my playbook. Langerhans is nowhere near the player Pierre is. Hunter is 31 and more of a slugger and is a gold glover like Andruw. Roberts would fit nicely in Atlanta and only made 2.25 million this season in a one year contract for the Padres. Roberts is an excellent bunter , contact hitter and he steals bases. His 272 strikeouts vs. 241 walks is an excellent ratio and his career numbers seem to be improving with age.
By Nelson Hawkins
September 22, 2006 05:14 AM | Link to this
If Hudson could be traded, I think the Mariners might be a good fit: they may still be enamored enough of what he did while in the AL West to take a shot on him, and they are reported to be one of the big spenders headed into this offseason. Maybe we could get a prime bullpen piece like Rafael Soriano in return, and consider the rest a salary dump/freeing of payroll. Fantasy Trade Number 1 (no, I don’t believe this is possible): Hudson and Francoeur to Seattle for Ichiro and R. Soriano. Just a thought…
Regarding Giles, I, like many, have assumed he would be traded this offseason; however, that’s why I’m here and not Generally Managing in the ATL. The 2B pickins are gonna be mighty slim this offseason (of the ilk of Ronnie Belliard, Mark Loretta, etc.), so it would only make sense to hold onto Marcus. He may be my early (ok, very early) pick for next year’s comeback player. Not that he’s had an awful year, but he’s capable of 45 doubles and 90 RBI at this point in his career, and provides better defense than the likes of Uggla and Utley, so he may still be the best all-around 2B package in the NL. Plus, ATL is dealing from a position of strength with a surplus of nearly-ready middle infielders in the minors (here’s hoping they all go to winter ball and open every scout’s eyes to the size of dinner plates—smells like trade bait to me). Failing that, here’s Fantasy Trade Number 2: Marcus straight-up to the Cardinals for Adam Wainwright.
Andruw…gotta keep him, no matter what it costs in payroll flexibility for one more year. He made a play for Smoltzie last night that made my heart sing like it always does when he does those things. There’s only 2 other CF at this point that are on the order of Andruw regarding power-hitting and stellar defense, Torii Hunter and Vernon Wells, but Andruw, frustrating as he can be to watch still, to this very second, be a threat to K on a slider 2.5 feet off the plate, he’s just…ours. Something to be said for maintaining chemistry, plus he clearly wants to be in the ATL. Of course, if the right deal was made available and Andruw was made amenable, here’s Fantasy Trade Number 3: Andruw to Boston straight-up for Josh Beckett (despite what he did on ESPN last night, he needs to get the Hizell outta Fenway Park to regain his ace-hood). To sweeten the pot, ATL could sign Baez to a one-year deal, then trade him to BOS for Coco Crisp (if I’m not mistaken, Baez is still a year away from free-agent eligibility, meaning the Braves have the right up to a certain date to decide whether to offer him a contract for next year).
By Bravo Nam
September 22, 2006 05:19 AM | Link to this
DOB Earlier I posted on the singer Rodriguez- Have you heard of him before? Listened to any of his stuff? What do you think? If you haven’t, it is an absolute must-I promise you that you won’t be disappointed.
JS Give JS his dues- an ego higher that Mile High, the man has had a poor year. But, it just goes to show, even a leopard as old as JS can change his spots. The guy is fairly inflexible, as we know. He’s old school- his way is best- but he also knows when he’s stuffed up. I think signing Wickman and Smoltz within a couple of days of each other, BEFORE the end of the season, is his way of saying he was wrong- his actions have proved that he can be flexible and abandon his very fixed, uncompromising views sometimes for the best of the team. Well done JS! I found the timing really interesting- he obviously had made up his mind before today- he could’ve done it and announced it yesterday with Wickman- but to do it on the day of John Smoltz’s staff was very astute- give Smoltz a boost ahead of his start, and maybe a sort of apology to Smoltz. JS still has it…and so do the Braves!
By Bravo Nam
September 22, 2006 05:33 AM | Link to this
Nelson Hawkins Like a few points you made, but two important things: there is no way known the Braves will or should trade Francouer…and Baez is a free agent at the end of this year.
By ncscoots
September 22, 2006 06:26 AM | Link to this
Re the current blog technical deficiencies, I’ve emailed AJC noting the current problems, so maybe their techies can get with the program (I speak their language, so maybe that explanation of the problems will help). I can understand if their is a short delay required between posts from the same IP, but the rest of the stuff is just bad design. Let’s hope that someone comes to their senses. Now, baseball…ah, heck it’s too early for me thing about baseball :-), maybe later.
By Nelson Hawkins
September 22, 2006 06:26 AM | Link to this
Just a thought: assuming, as we mostly all seem to do here, that next year’s rotation will still need patches, stitches, etc., should more payroll be dedicated to quality bullpen help than acquiring a middle-rotation starter?
Bravo Nam, I’m of the opinion that no player is unmovable at any time if the right deal is made. I’d trade Francoeur for Ichiro in a second, and Kid Suzuki only has one year left on his contract. But, I saw him go 4-for-6 in Seattle against Barry Zito and a strong Oakland bullpen the year he broke the single-season hits record. As one scout said of his work in Seattle’s 116-win season, “he’s driving that Seattle car”. You put him with Andruw in OF, and I’ll pay Klesko to come back and sip a brewskie under an umbrella in LF. Ichiro is the one RF in the whole of MLB that has a better arm than Francoeur. No matter what Jeff would bring you in the long-term, Ichiro could bring you a championship. I live in the Pac NW, and get to see nearly every Mariner game; the only reason they ain’t winning with Ichiro is a front-office that fiddles when they shouldn’t and won’t diddle when they need to.
By Nelson Hawkins
September 22, 2006 06:34 AM | Link to this
Just a thought: assuming, as we mostly all seem to do here, that next year’s rotation will still need patches, stitches, etc., should more payroll be dedicated to quality bullpen help than acquiring a middle-rotation starter?
Bravo Nam, I’m of the opinion that no player is unmovable at any time if the right deal is made. I’d trade Francoeur for Ichiro in a second, and Kid Suzuki only has one year left on his contract. But, I saw him go 4-for-6 in Seattle against Barry Zito and a strong Oakland bullpen the year he broke the single-season hits record. As one scout said of his work in Seattle’s 116-win season, “he’s driving that Seattle car”. You put him with Andruw in OF, and I’ll pay Klesko to come back and sip a brewskie under an umbrella in LF. Ichiro is the one RF in the whole of MLB that has a better arm than Francoeur. No matter what Jeff would bring you in the long-term, Ichiro could bring you a championship. I live in the Pac NW, and get to see nearly every Mariner game; the only reason they ain’t winning with Ichiro is a front-office that fiddles when they shouldn’t and won’t diddle when they need to.
By Tracie
September 22, 2006 07:57 AM | Link to this
I have a hard time giving Andruw upward of 12 million per season. He is great with defense, but offensively he is just not a top tier hitter. Im sorry he isnt. If he were hitting 300 and 45-50 homes runs per year then yes, but he doesnt. He strikes out with runners in scoring position, goes into long periods of no hits at all. For a player to get a 14 to 15 million contract he needs to show more consistancy with the bat.
Also Andruw is showing signs of injuries starting to happen. Sore back, sore legs, and he is overweight. Has been for a long time. Everyone knows that being overweight puts more stress on your body, especially your legs and back.
So I say he either ditches Boras as his agent and decides he wants Atlanta at a normal salary or goes ahead and leaves. We just cant afford nor do we want to pay huge for a player who hits 259 and strikes out 122 times.
As for Chipper, well he just needs to relieve the braves of his contract and retire. I do not see anything but the same DL trips thoughtout the next 3 seasons. I think it was a bad move for JS to restructure his contract. We could have said goodby to him and really gotten a couple holes filled for what we pay him to sit on the bench for 1/3 of the year.
By Tracie
September 22, 2006 08:06 AM | Link to this
I have a hard time giving Andruw upward of 12 million per season. He is great with defense, but offensively he is just not a top tier hitter. Im sorry he isnt. If he were hitting 300 and 45-50 homes runs per year then yes, but he doesnt. He strikes out with runners in scoring position, goes into long periods of no hits at all. For a player to get a 14 to 15 million contract he needs to show more consistancy with the bat.
Also Andruw is showing signs of injuries starting to happen. Sore back, sore legs, and he is overweight. Has been for a long time. Everyone knows that being overweight puts more stress on your body, especially your legs and back.
So I say he either ditches Boras as his agent and decides he wants Atlanta at a normal salary or goes ahead and leaves. We just cant afford nor do we want to pay huge for a player who hits 259 and strikes out 122 times.
As for Chipper, well he just needs to relieve the braves of his contract and retire. I do not see anything but the same DL trips thoughtout the next 3 seasons. I think it was a bad move for JS to restructure his contract. We could have said goodby to him and really gotten a couple holes filled for what we pay him to sit on the bench for 1/3 of the year.
By dadgum
September 22, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this
While it may well have been a forgone conclusion that the Braves would sign Wickman and pick up Smoltzie’s option, I think that JS is trying to get all the pieces in place as early as possible this year for the 2007 team.
His next move most likely is to resign Andruw prior to looking at any trades given most teams won’t entertain a trade until they are through playing at this stage. JS will get a good feeling on the Andruw resigning possibility in October if he hasn’t already. He may well know that answer but of course won’t leak it to us. Getting Andruw to commit early means JS won’t have to deal with Boras which ain’t bad incentive to get it done as early as possible.
Congrats to JS on both Wick & Smoltz.
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this
Tracie,
I agree with your general argument—Andruw Jones is not worth what he’s going to want. He’s a great player, a bit overrated offensively but still great. I think a team would be willing to give up some quality young players for him, which would help the Braves in the long run. Especially with the Mets now becoming the NL’s version of the Yankees/Red Sox; payroll efficiency is very important for the Braves now.
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this
dadgum,
I wouldn’t be surprised if Schuerholz hasn’t already talked to teams in preparation of an AJones deal.
By Salty55
September 22, 2006 08:48 AM | Link to this
If I recall, Boras was AJ’s agent last time, and was told to ‘pound sand’. Who’s to say it won’t be this way again.
AJ is a complete ball player. No he doesn’t hit for (high) average, but somehow the runs cross the plate, and the ball finds his glove. Is he worth $15MM/year…I don’t know. However, ask yourself this…would you let a spread of $2-3MM/year kill the deal. Who are you gonna get…and don’t say prospects!
By randy
September 22, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this
The concern I have is with Liberty Media. What if they decide to cut the payroll down from $80 million to $60 million? Then we are really going to be in a bind with Chipper & Hudson.
By Tony
September 22, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
Keep Andruw…what’s wrong with you people. The guy is only 28 years old!!! You don’t just trade away one of the best defensive centerfielder of all time…b/c he “only” is going to hit 35 to 40 homers and drive in 115-120 runs a year. Man how dumb can people do…
What you should be more concerned is the about to be 35y/o medical patient …Larry “Chipper” Jones. A toe, oblique, headache, back, …I mean this is only going to get worse!!
As far as leadoff hitters…I like the David Roberts idea. I’m sorry but Ryan Langerhans is NOT A MAJOR LEAGUER!! His defense is not that great. I hate to say this, but if Langy wasn’t white…do you think he would have gotten this much playing time? This is mindboggling.
I say give Hudson a chance to bounce back, don’t know why…but at least he was durable this year.
By Nocturnal Emission
September 22, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this
nscoots …. so you’ve emailed AJC concerning their “technical deficiencies”, and because you “speak their language”, now they will get with the program. Could it have been conveyed like this? “Hey, Y’all, Y’all need to fix yer dern blog, it ain’t workin’ right y’all!” ….. randy—the Braves are in a real bind with Chipper & Hudson at any price!
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
Salty55,
I think signing Andruw to an expensive, long-term deal is a mistake. He’s a great player, but he’s not going to get any better. He’s already hit his peak. Around $10 million/year is as high as I would go, then I would explore trades.
Worst case scenerio: trade Andruw for young players and move Langerhans or Francouer to center.
Best case scenerio: trade AJ in a package for CF Brian Anderson (White Sox) or some other young centerfielder. The White Sox already have outfielders Sweeney and Anderson, the money to spend to re-sign AJ and the desire to win now.
By ncscoots
September 22, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this
Actually, NE, I was attempting define the problem in terms they could understand quickly, and so speed any implemented solution. As opposed to your (somewhat wet) conveyance of the problem…
By geauxbraves2000
September 22, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this
*Smoltz (14-9) pitched seven strong innings (nine hits, three runs) a few hours after the Braves announced they would exercise the $8 million option on the 39-year-old’s contract for 2007, his 20th season with Atlanta.
He credited his center fielder for the win.
“Fortunately Andruw Jones _ in a season where there’s been a ton of injuries _ plays every stinking day, makes a great catch in center field and hits a three-run homer,” Smoltz said. “Otherwise, we don’t win the game.”*
Yeah, AJ has no value to this team, gotta trade him.
Geaux Braves!!
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
Salty55,
I think signing Andruw to an expensive, long-term deal is a mistake. He’s a great player, but he’s not going to get any better. He’s already hit his peak. Around $10 million/year is as high as I would go, then I would explore trades.
Worst case scenerio: trade Andruw for young players and move Langerhans or Francouer to center.
Best case scenerio: trade AJ in a package for CF Brian Anderson (White Sox) or some other young centerfielder. The White Sox already have outfielders Sweeney and Anderson, the money to spend to re-sign AJ and the desire to win now.
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this
Keep Andruw…what’s wrong with you people. The guy is only 28 years old!!! You don’t just trade away one of the best defensive centerfielder of all time…b/c he “only” is going to hit 35 to 40 homers and drive in 115-120 runs a year. Man how dumb can people do…
Tony,
Andruw will likely remain very productive, but players generally peak around 26-, 27-, 28-years-old. He’s not likely to get any better and he’s going to demand a huge payday with a lot of years attached. Why not trade him while his value is high and get younger cheaper players that provide as much or more production at a variety of positions. Several good players are better than one great player.
If the Braves can sign him for around $10 million/year for 2-3 years, that would be okay. But anything much more than that would be a mistake.
By Nocturnal Emission
September 22, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
You southern Bohunks aren’t even smart enough to know when you’re being insulted!
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
Keep Andruw…what’s wrong with you people. The guy is only 28 years old!!! You don’t just trade away one of the best defensive centerfielder of all time…b/c he “only” is going to hit 35 to 40 homers and drive in 115-120 runs a year. Man how dumb can people do…
Players generally peak at 26-, 27-years-old. We’ve likely seen the best of Andruw, but he’s going to get more expensive. Why not trade him while his value is high and get younger, cheaper players that will soon be more productive? If the Braves can get him for around $10 million for 2-3 years, that would be okay. Anything more, I think you trade him.
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this
Keep Andruw…what’s wrong with you people. The guy is only 28 years old!!! You don’t just trade away one of the best defensive centerfielder of all time…b/c he “only” is going to hit 35 to 40 homers and drive in 115-120 runs a year. Man how dumb can people do…
Here we go again measuring effectiveness by HR and RBI.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2562
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this
Nocturnal Emission,
You are not smart enough and too shallow to realize intelligence is more than just “proper English” and that many southerners are very intelligent. I’m sorry southern culture is more hospitable than most other cultures and you are unhappy with your life. Maybe you can find a blog that can reinforce your ideas of northeastern superiority.
By ncscoots
September 22, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this
NE, I assume you are directing your remarks to me, so that would presume that I respect your opinion enough to be insulted. Since I can only form an impression about you through your posts, we can safely assume that isn’t the case. Therefore, spew if you must, and I’ll just ignore you henceforth. BTW, you did know that “southern Bohunk” is a term of endearment, did you not?
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this
As far as leadoff hitters…I like the David Roberts idea. I’m sorry but Ryan Langerhans is NOT A MAJOR LEAGUER!! His defense is not that great. I hate to say this, but if Langy wasn’t white…do you think he would have gotten this much playing time? This is mindboggling.
Langerhans is a decent player. True, he’s not the best, but if the Braves can get good production from other positions, Langerhans would be fine in center. Maybe he’s a backup on most teams, but he’s definetly a major leaguer. Here are his career numbers:
.252 AVG/.343 OBP/ .397 SLG
No too shabby.
By David O'Brien
September 22, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this
Bravo Nam: I haven’t heard of the dude Rodriguez. Is his stuff available in US music stores? I have no idea.
I agree with you on Schuerholz. Rare that he surprises me like he did last couple of days, with signing of Wick and Smoltz option exercised before season ended. Very wise moves, in my view.
TRACIE, YOU WROTE: “As for Chipper, well he just needs to relieve the braves of his contract and retire.”
Yeah, sure. I know if I had $22 mill GUARANTEED coming to me the next two seasons from a team I’ve helped win a few division championships and pennants and a World Series, I’d just say, ‘Hey, keep it. I’ll retire and leave the $22 mill for you to spend elsewhere.” Sure. It’s just $22 mill.
By Greg in TN
September 22, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this
Things have quieted down on the sell front the past several months (or is it just me?) so until we know a) that a deal to sell from TW to Liberty or anyone else is imminent and b) what the intentions will be with the new ownership in terms of payroll, any moves from a perspective of dumping salary are a bit premature.
I love the fact we signed Wickman to an extention, ever since he came in on the flight from Cleveland, he’s done nothing except stabilize a bullpen that was spiralling out of control. Picking up the option on Smoltzie was a no-brainer and I am very happy to see that.
To those that would like to see Bobby Cox ride out of town… Who are you going to get to replace him? Say what you will about his game management skills, however his steady calm demeanor in the clubhouse and the quiet way he goes about his business every bit as much of the reason why there are banners on the facade at the Ted.
Many will remember that Joe Torre had a bad season in ‘84 and was not around to see 1985 where we really went into the tank. Eddie Haas wasn’t the answer in ‘85, neither was Bobby Wine, Chuck Tanner or Russ Nixon. Bobby’s postseason record isn’t what anyone would like and I am sure Bobby himself agrees, but I can’t believe all of the October shortcomings are his fault. There have been some better teams than what we had some years and other teams caught fire at the right time.
I agree that JS will be busy in the offseason shoring up the bullpen. I’m not in agreement that anything needs to be done with AJ short of starting to talk about an extention to his contract. We can’t get rid of Huddy because there’s no way we can get anything back and no one wants to take that kind of contract on for how he’s pitched the last few years.
By Rosalynn
September 22, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this
My, My, I sure seem to have ruffled several somebody’s feathers. Who are “these people” so upset with my posts? Jimma and I aren’t hateful people, why are “people” hating on me? And who is this blogger who sees a “Jimmy Smith” everywhere? Does this blogger have an obsession with Jimmy Smith? He sure seems to dwell on Jimmy Smith a lot. Jimma would say the blogger has probably had too many boiled peanuts in the past few hours. Well, whoa … was that Jimmy Smith? WWhoaa… there he goes again! Quick, inside before he gets you! Ha, ha! Down in Plains we like to make fun of simpletons like that. Imagine this young man getting so upset over somebody named jmmy. Well, Jimma says I can’t blog anymore since I am upsetting this young man so. From what I read he is the new “Jimmy Smith”. He was so captivated that he chose to take on the name for his own. Jimma says that won’t make any difference though. People can still tell the difference - and people still don’t like him. uh, oh, Jimma’s got a hammah. Gotta go.
By Andy Young
September 22, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this
I was sitting here eating a big plate of greens and I thought, “sure would be nice if there was a place in town where a fella could buy some fresh greens.” Then I thought, “I must aks skip and Pete where they buy their greens.” I hope they don’t say WalMart because I can’t go there now. And Mr. Kim won’t let me set foot in his market anymore. What’s an ambassador to do when he needs some fresh greens? On the upside, how about that Aybar? Does everyone see the upside of that trade now? Aybar hit everyone upside the head with that base hit in the eighth inning last night. Was that a Korean pitcher? Everything he threw up there looked stale to me. I hope to see everyone at the last homestand. Go Braves!
By Head Coach
September 22, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
Keep Andruw and go to the playoffs in 2007. Trade Andruw and kiss the playoffs goodbye. Any questions ?
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
Payne: Players generaly peak
This is the sort of thinking that had the Red Sox trading the Rocket, or at least, letting him go. The older AJ gets, the more homers a year he hits. Who’s to say he doesn’t spend his offseason figuring out how to hit like he did in 2000. Maybe he will. No one knows. I’d rather keep the franchise player with the team.
By the way, I’ve seen a lot of posts on this site about how much Andruw is asking for… where is the report on that? I haven’t read it. Could some one post the link that references AJ demanding no less than 15 million. Or, that he is seeking 18 to 20 million? I’d be interested in reading any article that quotes AJ speaking of his contract requirments.
Some one suggested trading Giles to the Angels. I had thought of this very thing a while ago. It sounded like a good idea. But Howie is really filling in nicely and he’s cheaper than Giles. And, Stoneman likes his prospects. I’d look for Stoneman to make moves for positions of need, which he has no major league ready player in his farm.
The Hudson to Seattle deal was interesting. But there is no chance at all of Francoeur being traded.
And please, stop with the racism.
Great game last night. Very Very very pleased. Can I get a HotDamn!
GO BRAVES
By Thomas
September 22, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this
DOB, youre right about Hampton, but next year, I heard the Braves got full reponsability of his contract is that true.
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
The Red Sox didn’t trade Clemens, they let him walk. If they had traded him, maybe they would have received pieces at least as valuable as the Rocket himself.
I don’t think any one player should be above a trade. The best player are worth only 3-4 wins. Why not get a two or three cheap players worth 1-2 wins, if you can?
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
Thomas: DOB has written on this very topic. It’s been posted many times. When the deal went down, Hampton came to ATL with enough cash to cover the first few years of his contract with the Braves. After that, the contract was entirely the Braves responsibility. JS, the good steward that he is, spread that money out, so that Hampton is owed about 8.08 million a season out of the Braves pocket, with the rest of the money coming from that trade, for the entirity of Hamptons tenure with the Braves.
Also, Insurance covered this seasons contract… not all of it, but some. In some places, it’s been quoted at 60% of the full value of this season contract. IF that is true and JS applied that insurance payment as he did with the trade money, Hampton’s annual Braves Salary drops below 8 million to about 7.75 or so.
If anything, it’s 8 million a year. And who knows what JS is doing with the Insurance money he recieved on all the other players this year, Chipper included, and the extra money from Chippers restructured contract.
By Kevin Johnson
September 22, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
Starting pitching is not the only weakness for the braves. Tim Hudson will bounce back and have a solid year, team him up with Smoltzie, and a very impressive c. james, and i think the braves could use one more solid starting pitcher. For the first time in years the set up role is starting to come together with our young pitchers. I think the biggest weakness for the braves is at top of the order. We had no team speed whatsoever. Losing furcal wasn’t huge, but the loss of his speed was a big deal. I think if the braves are to go after an outfielder it should be the likes of a carl crawford. It is hard to argue my point, if you look at the teams that are in the playoffs, they have speed. Mets(Reyes), Yankees(Damon,Jeter, Abreu), Dodgers(Furcal), Padres(roberts), last years champs white sox(podsednik), speed distracts pitchers. I don’t think a. jones should go anywhere, the best centerfielder in baseball in my opinion. Sure the numbers were down from a year ago, but he was without chipper forever, franceour batter .265, and laroche was bad in the first half. we may have burnt a bridge with him buy throwing his name out there at deadline. If we do let him go then it should only be for an all star outfielder and pitcher, we should get nothing less for him. I don’t think Larocher is very clutch. He has put up a great numbers in the second half, now that there is no pressure.
LF Crawford SS Renteria RF Franceour CF A. Jones 3B C. Jones C B. McCann 1B M. Diaz 2B M. Giles
By tyyosh
September 22, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
Regarding Wickman and the blown saves -
It would be interesting to note how many of those blown saves were last-inning blown saves that resulted in losses, as opposed to, for example, a 7th inning meltdown or a game they eventually won. Those last-inning BS that led to losses are the ones that Wickman might have fixed, not the complete number of BS. Of course, maybe his presence would have shifted better arms to the 7th and 8th, which would have cut down those also. His leadership and mentoring might have helped the others in the bullpen do better as well, resulting in fewer meltdowns. It is likely his effect would have been worth at least 5 or more wins, though (enough to win the WC).
By 1 for 14 (7%)
September 22, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this
The braves are going back to the vacuum of irrelavence that they were before 1991. Then their fans can take more time to worry about music, greens and grits….bye bye
By David O'Brien
September 22, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
Thomas, there is NO confusion about Hampton’s contract, or at least there shouldn’t be confusion, given the number of times it’s been reported here and elsewhere.
Braves paid only $5.5 mill of his $35.5 mill total salary over the 2003-05 seasons, but are paying full $43 mill of his salary over the 2006-08 seasons, minus the 50-60 percent of his $13.5 sal this season that’s covered by insurance.
However, for Braves payroll purposes, they’ve counted the AVERAGE ANNUAL VALUE OF THEIR COMMITMENT TO HIM for their payroll each year, thus it’s about $8 mill per year, even in the years they only paid him a couple mill. So while the official payroll that MLB and others report is close to $90 mill, that’s not the one the Braves use when they say their payroll limit is about $80 mill. So for all intents and purposes, the “official” ones you see reported elsewhere aren’t too relevent, because as I said, Braves work with $8 mill number each year for Hampton, not the $14.5 mill they must pay him next season or the $15 mill (gulp) he’s owed by them in 2008.
Hopefully that’ll take care of that discussion _ for a few weeks, until someone else asks about the Braves’ commitment to him.
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this
Kevin Johnson,
The teams in the playoffs are there because of either run scoring, run prevention or both. The most important factor in run scoring/prevention is avoiding outs for as long as possible and making outs as fast as possible. Speed is great, but it’s not a necessity. Look at the 15 or so highest scoring teams in baseball history and I guarantee you their stolen base numbers will be all over the place. But they will all have high on-base/low out percentages and high slugging percentages.
And I don’t care how great a player is, even if he’s the best whatever in baseball, if you can get two or three very productive, cheaper players for that one it will help you more.
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this
Payne: or at least letting him go
The Best players are worth 3-4 wins. Let’s say that describes Andruw next season. This season, since July 1st, the Braves have played 91 win ball. So with Andruw you maintain that, or improve on that, and get to a 90 to 95 win season. Add with a better pitching staff, you have a 95-100 win season next year. Dominant.
Or you can trade 1 player for 3 cheaper players, and you have to make a choice…you only opened one spot for three guys; two of them certainly won’t be playing full time negating their win worth. So you are back down to an 85-90 win team at best (intangibles are hard to measure with numbers: see Meltdown Bradly. 2 Bill James disciples traded for him)… no wonder you’re plans shoot for a winning season 5 years from now.
The other issue I have with this trade for young players… Let’s say we follow your logic. Andruw is going to be expensive, maybe too expensive to keep. Trade him and get youth, preferably of the same age as McCann. Follow that with all the other overpriced veterans. Now, you have a whole team all the same age, and they’re all talented because we made great trades. In 5 years, we’ll be able to win 95-100 games and be dominant. However, in 5 years, they will all be in the last year of arbitration, i.e. pending free agents very much like Marcus Giles. Sure, they’re in their prime and they may produce for another year or two, but they’re going to be way to expensive to keep. So we’d have to trade them for youth. And, we start all over. Now, every five years we are the Marlins, only we will see no WS because right when they all get good, they all are pending FA and are too expensive and we should trade for youth.
By thad
September 22, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this
We need a quality backup catcher. Todd Pratt just didnt get the job done this year. We need another third baseman. Chipper hasnt played a full season in how many years??? And dont forget the bullpen… it was horrible this year. How many games did smoltz have lost to the bullpen. The braves need a lot of help. but i will be there with them thru it all…
By geauxbraves2000
September 22, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
By Head Coach Keep Andruw and go to the playoffs in 2007. Trade Andruw and kiss the playoffs goodbye. Any questions ?
Amen.
Geaux Braves!!
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
You bring up some very complex issues, which is why I always include if the Braves are smart about it when I talk about an Andruw Jones trade.
I still think it’s a long shot for the Braves to win something like 95 games next year. They may be on that kindof pace since July 1st, but that really doesn’t tell us anything about their chances next year. Teams can go through weird stretches sometimes.
I think the Braves can contend even if they trade AJones, Giles and/or Hudson if they are smart about it.
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
And I don’t care how great a player is, even if he’s the best whatever in baseball, if you can get two or three very productive, cheaper players for that one it will help you more
So you’d trade Pujols for two or three minor leaguers?
By geauxbraves2000
September 22, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
Good post TennPaul.
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
geauxbraves2000,
Keep Andruw and go to the playoffs in 2007. Trade Andruw and kiss the playoffs goodbye. Any questions ?
Yeah. What if the Braves trade Andruw Jones for three players worth about 1/3-1/2 the amount of wins as AJ and all three combined make less money? Wouldn’t the Braves be better off?
By Patrick
September 22, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
I see where you are coming from but look at the three players JS wanted. Lester, Hansen and Crisp. Illness, bad and worse.
We’d be in horrible shape for next year if that deal went down.
By BB FAN
September 22, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
How can you say that Langerhans is a decent major leaguer and then try to back it up by posting his horrible career numbers? .252 AVG/.343 OBP/ .397 SLG is not a decent everyday outfielder!!! All three are too low for an everyday outfielder. And I’m sorry but his defense is not anywhere close to Andruw Jones’. And Andruw Jones is good for 40 HRs and 120 RBIs. And I don’t care about your Baseball Prospectus crap. Those are awesome numbers but then add in Jones’ unbelievable defense and you have a Hall of Famer. Andruw Jones does more for the centerfield position than what Ozzie Smith did for shortstop. Ozzie was awesome defensively and he developed into a very productive hitter. However, Andruw Jones has 338 career homeruns with 1014 RBIs and won’t turn 30 until next season. He has hit better in the clutch this season as well. And he has always been better in close and late innings. This link will give those stats.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5681&type=batting3
And since the all-star break this year, he has almost as many walks as strikeouts. So he is continuosly improving. And he likely will get better. Now, I’m not saying Andruw Jones is worth $18 Million of the $80 million payroll. But I think he will take less to stay with the Braves. I think Chipper taking 11 million will help Andruw realize that the extra 4-6 million is not worth losing happiness and comfort. I really don’t think the Braves should trade Andruw Jones. Worst case, they lose him in free agency, and they gain $15 million to sign a few free agents.
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
Well, actually, the best players are worth more than a few wins—they are worth more like 10 wins. But the premise of my argument doesn’t change. If the Braves are smart they can still get three or four players worth about 3-5 wins a piece at probably a lot less money combined.
By geauxbraves2000
September 22, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
I understand what you are trying to say Shaun, but AJ is the exception to the rule. IMO he’s worth more than 3-4 wins a season. His offense is great, but in his defense is where he earns his $$. Look at last night, with that diving catch it’s probaly a triple and a large CO lead, he saved that game last night with his glove. How many times has he done that this year and over the past 10 years? The Braves would be an adequate team without him, but they are dominant with him.
Just my opinion, but I think the Braves would be a much lesser team without AJ and as of now there is no one or two or three prospects combinded out there than could replace him.
Geaux Braves!!
By geauxbraves2000
September 22, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
To me, right now AJ is worth the money. Five years from now it may be a little different, but if they front load the contract while the salaries of Francouer et al are not a burden, when it comes to the end of his contract and his skills are starting to diminish, they his contract would be a bargin, ie John Smoltz. Not saying js’s skills have diminished, just saying he is a bargin next year.
Geaux Braves!!
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
Actually I would have no problem trading Pujols for the right players.
I would trade Pujols for Mauer, Morneau and Garza, for instance. And I think it would make the Cardinals better if a trade like that was possible, which of course it isn’t now.
But Andruw Jones, as great as he is, is no Pujols especially at this point in his career.
It’s not just about who you are trading and who you are trading him for, but it’s also about when you trade him.
By BB FAN
September 22, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
I’ve noticed that people are contemplating whether the Braves will or will not have a dominant team next year. Some are saying the Braves are only going to be dominant if everything is perfect and they have good luck. Well, having a dominant team means everything goes perfectly and that takes luck. For MLB purposes, that is what defines a dominant team.
The White Sox are a perfect example. Last year, they had luck and everything went perfect. The pitching was dominant and they got timely hitting, they avoided injuries, ect. They won the WS. This year, the White Sox are on the verge of missing the playoffs. It’s because their luck ran out and and things are not perfect. The picthing has not been as dominant, the hitting is streaky. But on paper, they looked like repeat champions.
Which brings me to my next point. That is why it is very difficult to stay on top in MLB. Winning a World Series takes talent, luck (timely pitching/hitting and avoiding injuries), and a perfect team chemistry.
The Braves have had the talent for 15 years. They probably have had the team chemistry for at least 6 of those years. But they were only lucky in 1995. They have missed the timely hitting/pitching, had injuries, ect.
Winning a WS takes luck. I don’t care what anybody says, that is the truth. Proof is the Lonnie Smith play in ‘91, and the Mark Wohlers slider to Lehritz in ‘96. Those were unlucky plays. Without them, the Braves have at least 2 more WS rings. But they happened, and the Braves are left with their lone WS ring in ‘95. But at least they won that year. I’m happy with that. Sure, I would love to have a few more, but I realize it’s not easy for a team to win it all.
By Jimbo
September 22, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
Andrew Jones is not a PUJOLS…..One player don’t win the play-offs. If so what happen this year? Pitching comes First.
By ncscoots
September 22, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
again with the “speed at the top of the order”…maybe someone has the stats on just how many times this year the Braves were held to three runs or fewer. I’d be shocked if it’s a significant fraction of 162, and, to me, those are the only games in which manufacturing a run with a stolen base would carry any weight. You might want to consider this little factoid, also…fifty or so SB a season (pretty good, right?) equates to about ONE BAG A SERIES! I don’t believe that exactly jumpstarts an offense that going to score in the neighborhood of 800 runs this year.
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
Payne: If they are wise, they will listen to offers. I’m sure they will. JS leans toward keeping his team players who helped create the success the team has had and who helped sustain it. It’s good for guidance of young players. It’s intangible and not reflected directly in the numbers. And, if they are smart about it, they will not trade any of their players simply because the return is young and cheap.
I’d say the recent pace holds a lot of promise for next year. Consider: Davies, Thomson, Chipper, HoRam, Reitsma, Andruw, Aybar, and Baez all were injured at some point in that stretch and they have still been able to produce at this pace.
This year’s woes were more the pitching than any other factor. If JS can shore up the pitching without touching the offense or fielding, this team will be capable of producing a fabulous season. If he improves the offense, even better. But I hope, and I believe, JS will go with Pitching and Defense first and foremost. That would call for keeping both Giles and Andruw.
By Robert
September 22, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
“Evenin’, Lew! Bobby Cox’s winning record speaks for itself, as do accolades from players, managers, and ‘real’ baseball people. Our friend somehow overlooks all of that in his predjudice.”
Cox’s winning record? Sure, he beats the Pirates and Expos/Nationals a lot. His record against playoff caliber teams is hardly a winning one (1 for 14)
As for accolades from players - A manager’s job is not for his players to like him.
Carolina lady - Is the best babysitter for your children always the one they think is the coolest?
As for accolades from other baseball people - what better way to keep a Braves franchise that really should have 4 or 5 rings down on the groun than to fool or shame them into keeping their donkey manager on board.
The accolades from other baseball people are always in the form of “He (Cox) looks great on THEIR team (the Braves)”, and not in the form of “Gee we wish we had him (Cox)”
THEY like the donkey just where he is - keeping the Braves from being a factor in the postseason (and now the regular season too, now that he doesnt have the benefit of three HOF starters going every five days)
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this
BB FAN,
Langerhans is not an everyday outfielder for most teams, but if you can make up for his deficiencies elsewhere he’s an okay option, worse-case scenario.
And players show little to no innate ability to hit in the clutch.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=betweenthenumbers/ortiz/060405
And Andruw Jones, although he’ll remain productive for several more years, is not likely to improve. He could, but it’s more likely that we’ve seen his best seasons already.
All I’m saying is if the Braves can pull off a Nathan-Liriano-Bonser-type trade with AJ, they should.
By Greg in TN
September 22, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this
BB Fan
Well said… Not every year does the best team going into the playoffs win the WS. Talent, chemistry and having the ball bounce the right way in October.
By Robert
September 22, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
“The Braves have had the talent for 15 years. They probably have had the team chemistry for at least 6 of those years. But they were only lucky in 1995”
Gotta disagree - the Braves were “lucky” in 1995 only in the sense that their starters basically ran the table three times running and thus took Cox out of the equation
They had the talent and the chemistry. And yet they came up short, because they didnt have a competent manager
By Bravo Nam
September 22, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
DOB You can definitely get two of Rodriguez’s albums through Amazon: “Cold Fact” and “At His Best”. In terms of record stores in the US, just go into any large one- if not in stock, get them to order in (maybe only available via IMPORT). Start with “At His Best”- if you like that, go on to Cold Fact. I had never heard of him either until about 20 years ago I’m in someone’s car and they have “At His Best” on- loved it the moment I heard it- can’t recommend him highly enough. The old adage about a prophet not being recognised in his own country is so true of Rodriguez- this man is awesome- born and bred in the US- yet has never done a concert in the US and only sells overseas- he’s a guy Americans should embrace and be very proud of (go to this site and read a little about him- www.sugarman.org).
On to baseball Guys and gals…these last couple of weeks are very important for the Braves trade prospects- we need a fortnight of good results from the guys who may be traded (Hudson, Giles, Jones, Ramirez- if he comes back) to boost their value. And until we’re mathematically eliminated, anything is possible.
By BB FAN
September 22, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
I’m not so sure I would take Pujols over Andruw Jones. Pujols’ bat can be replaced easier than Jones’ defense. In fact, Jones’ defense in centerfield may not be replaceable. What he does in centerfield more than makes up for the advantage Pujols has offensively. Defense and pitching wins World Series’. And centerfield is one of the most important defensive positions. I think it ranks right there with catcher and shortstop from a defensive point of view.
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
Who said Andruw was Pujols?
And I don’t care how great a player is, even if he’s the best whatever in baseball, if you can get two or three very productive, cheaper players for that one it will help you more
So you’d trade Mauer for an even younger, cheaper player?
What if the Braves trade Andruw Jones for three players worth about 1/3-1/2 the amount of wins as AJ and all three combined make less money? Wouldn’t the Braves be better off?
Question, where do you play these three players? Last I checked, Baseball rules only allow 9 guys on the field. You only traded one. So only one will be on the field. Now you’ve traded away 2/3 to 1/2 the wins. It’s a good thing they’re cheap too. Trade away a local star and start losing more games and you lose revenue.
So I’d say, no. The Braves wouldn’t be better off winning less and pulling in less revenue.
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
BB FAN,
Of course being a dominant team takes luck, but luck is just one factor. Player performance is largely predictable, in other words it’s not only luck. But I understand what you’re saying. Still certain teams set themselves up so that they have a greater margin for error. The Royals, no matter how lucky they were, were not going to win 90 games this season.
Now, the Braves could win over 95 games next season, but it would likely cost them too much both financially and in terms of players they’d have to give up.
It’s likely the Yankees will win over 95 games, even with some bad luck. I mean, look at this season—they lost Matsui and Sheffield and are still going to win the division by a large margin.
I agree, great or dominant teams are almost always lucky and talented, but some teams need more luck than others. And ability to hit, pitch and field are a lot more important that luck.
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
playoff caliber teams
For the record, this includes regular season teams, that don’t quite make the post season. They are playoff caliber teams, not playoff teams. So, Bobby’s record against playoff caliber teams is exceptionally high. I don’t have the means to check the regular season stats against all teams deamed playoff caliber or against all teams that were in the playoffs. But let’s just go with the playoff teams and check Bobby’s record in the playoffs against them: .504… hmmmm… he’s got a winning playoff record. How about that.
GO BRAVES!!
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
Well, if the Braves trade Andruw and still win the division, I guarantee you that they will not lose revenue.
And you sometimes have to take a half a step back (trading players like Andruw and winning maybe a handful fewer games) to take a couple of steps forward (building a team that can dominate in a few years).
By BB FAN
September 22, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this
Robert,
No manager is perfect. I will agree with you that Cox has made some questionable moves over the years…especially in the post season. However, he is not why they have only one World Series ring. Cox did not tell Lonnie Smith to be tricked by Knoblauch at 2B in the 8th inning of a 0-0 game that the Braves lost 1-0 in the 10th inning. He should have scored on that hit easily. But he went back to second base because Knoblauch pretended to get the ball. And Cox did not throw the slider to Lehritz in the ‘96 World Series that he hit into orbit for a 3 run homerun. The Braves would have went up 3 games to 1 if Wohlers does not give up the homer to Lehritz. Sh!t happens. That slider obviously did not slide. These things happen. Nobody is perfect.
And yes, the Braves got lucky in 1995. They may have been the best team that year, but Cleveland was no slouch. Cleveland was a lot better hitting team. But the Braves picthers stepped up and got plays and the right calls. Every team that wins the World Series gets lucky. It’s even more of a lottery since the 5 game division playoff series started. But winning the World Series takes LUCK. Plays/calls have to go your way on numerous occasions.
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this
he stats on just how many times this year the Braves were held to three runs or fewer.
33 times to date. 21.6% of the games played.
By Salty55
September 22, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this
10Paul good stat…so, about the same # of games blown by the bullpen (pro-rata basis). I’ll take the closer over the base stealer, thank you very much!
By Salty55
September 22, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
10Paul good stat…so, about the same # of games blown by the bullpen (pro-rata basis). I’ll take the closer over the base stealer, thank you very much!
By budsabrave
September 22, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
isay keep aj keep all young pitching do a way with hampton he cant play a whole year anyway trade giles and laroche for speed in the leadoff spot matty d. can play first plus we still got thorman who will be a stud. give huddy ashort leash for next year. try for schmidt in off season
By DonCoburleone
September 22, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
It’s good to know Wickman and Smoltz will be back next season… Now as far as Andruw Jones, Marcus Giles, and Tim Hudson, I just hope we get quality in return if we trade them. Actually, I would take an average middle-reliever for Hudson right now, straight up. He is going to KILL our payroll for 2008 and 2009. Unbelievable how much he’s fallen off. Why haven’t they come out with a reliable substitute to amphetamines that doesn’t get detected so Hudson can be a good pitcher again? They’ve clearly got the latest designer steroid out already (see Big Papi and Ryan Howard and Carlos Beltran and Jose Valentin and Carlos Delgado and, f**k it, the entire MUTS team!!!!)
By geauxbraves2000
September 22, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
I don’t want to dominate in a few years, I want to dominate next year and this team, with a few decent pitching acquistions, can be dominate next year.
Geaux Braves!!
By BB FAN
September 22, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
You are right that some teams need more luck than others. The Yankees have an unlimited payroll so they can replace anybody with anybody. But they are the only team that can take on as much salary as they want to. The Mets and Red Sox are right behind them.
The Braves have an excellent team this year. If not for injuries (bad luck), this team would have won 90 or more games. If JS had been able to sign Wickman in the off season, the Braves would have won 90 games even with the injuries, but that happens. Wickman was scheduled to fly out for a physical for the Braves but Cleveland swooped in and gave him a contract.
The Braves can be dominant next year with out spending more than they did this year. With Thomson, Sosa, Reitsma, Jordan, ect gone, there is an approx. 12 million saved. Smoltz makes 2 million less next year. All they need to do is sign a Dave Roberts (somebody suggested that earlier) type player and maybe trade Ramirez and/or Giles. They could pick up a bullpen arm and maybe a cheap starter that will eat up innings with those trades. Paronto, Villarreal, Yates, McBride have picthed effectively out of the pen. Those guys are all young and were coming off injuries, so they will get stronger. Even Ray picthed well for 4 months but he got tired. The bullpen they have had since the July/August has been pretty good. Then, if they avoid just some of the injuries to the pitching staff next year, they will win 90-95 games, maybe more.
Of course there are a lot of ifs, but that’s baseball. You can only put together a team that looks good on paper and hope to avoid injuries and slumps, ect.
By DonCoburleone
September 22, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this
It’s good to know Wickman and Smoltz will be back next season… Now as far as Andruw Jones, Marcus Giles, and Tim Hudson, I just hope we get quality in return if we trade them. Actually, I would take an average middle-reliever for Hudson right now, straight up. He is going to KILL our payroll for 2008 and 2009. Unbelievable how much he’s fallen off. Why haven’t they come out with a reliable substitute to amphetamines that doesn’t get detected so Hudson can be a good pitcher again? They’ve clearly got the latest designer steroid out already (see Big Papi and Ryan Howard and Carlos Beltran and Jose Valentin and Carlos Delgado and, f**k it, the entire MUTS team!!!!)
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
True Payne. If they win. Their chance of winning is greatly improved with fabulous defense and excellent pitching. Keeping Andruw would help to that extent.
You keep seeking deals as if this teams payroll was 20 million. We have 80 million to spend. We can afford to field Andruw and bring up the youth in a steady flow so that the entire team isn’t the same age and experience. It’s a mozaic of experience and knowledge out there. It works very well. Well enough to bounce back from the single worst month in Atlanta Braves history to go on and produce like it’s a 90 win season.
Fascinating… I just went and checked June out again. Sosa and Thomson made 7 starts between them. Every start, save one, the opposition scored 6+ runs a game. 51 runs allowed by those two in June. By June 20th, Sosa was out of the rotation and this team has been on a 90 win season pace since. Up until that point, they were on pace for a 68 win season.
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
geauxbraves2000,
I understand that you want to dominate next year. But would you rather dominate next year at the expense of having a chance to win two or three World Series in a couple of years? Or would you rather contend next year and have a chance to win 95 consistently every season in a few years?
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
My mistake…
33 Games of 2 runs or fewer (21.6%)
56 Games of 3 runs or fewer (36.6%)
97 Games of 4 runs or More (63.4%)
75 Games of 5 runs or More (49.0%)
54 Games of 6 runs or More (35.3%)
38 Games of 7 runs or More (24.8%)
By Greg in TN
September 22, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this
Interesting numbers, TennPaul. June could have been a different month entirely. Here’s hoping to Hudson regaining form, Hampton being healthy and effective and Wick turning out the lights in the ninth. I have hope for our pitching next year.
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
would you rather dominate next year at the expense of having a chance to win two or three World Series in a couple of years
I don’t see that as a valid question. It assumes that if things stay on the current track, that we will not be competitive in 2 to 3 years. If saying a 90 win pace tells little of next season, then how can one possibly know what is going to happen 2 to 3 years down the road with or without any trades?
By Shaun
September 22, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
Even if we can afford AJones, I would argue that the Braves should still trade him if they receive the right players. And if they are the right players, the Braves will contend next season.
By Daniel
September 22, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
It’s an extremely complicated issue. That’s why none of us would be nearly as good at the GM job as we’d like to believe. I mean, if Andruw does stay on, and his contract restricts us from obtaining that one piece to get us over the hump, then it’s a bad move to keep him. If we do deal him, and the “can’t miss” prospect/prospects get injured or indeed do miss then we just made a trade that gets talked about forever….You just can’t tell the future. Even if the prospects do bomb, we have the extra cash to make try something else. But how many guys can get you 40 hrs, 120 rbis and play gold glove center field. I’m glad I don’t have to make this call..
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this
Forgot to mention: Sosa and Thomson didn’t start a game in June that the Braves won.
By Steve
September 22, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this
Here’s the one nobody wants to address: TRADE CHIPPER JONES. This guy may still be one of the best hitters in the majors, but he’s also one of the most injury-prone. 12 million a year for a guy who only plays 100 games/year is no good. Trade him straight up to the Angels for Ervin Santana. In Anaheim, Chipper could DH and save wear and tear on his feet.
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
Payne: I’m not going to say don’t trade Andruw if someone is willing to offer the next Pujols, Clemens, and Bonds(unroided and untempered) for him. But I don’t think they need to actively try to trade him, even if he says he’s only in it for the money (which he has never implied, and which his previous actions have not shown). They will compete next year with him. Even if he walks at the end of the year. And if he does, then they’ll have 13.5 million to go after some one else and couple of draft picks to get the next AJ. (Who, if he’s anything like AJ, would be ready to play Major League Ball in only 2 years)
By BB FAN
September 22, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
Shaun, The Braves can dominate next year as well as 2, 3, 4, ect years down the road. They have been doing that for 15 years. They bring in young players to go along with the veterens every few years.
It started with Smoltz, Glavine in 1988-89; Justice, Merker and Avery in the 1990-91; Javy Lopez, Chipper Jones, Ryan Klesko in 1993-95; Andruw Jones, Jermaine Dye in 1996; Ligtenberg, John Rocker, Kevin Millwood in 1998-99; Furcal, Giles in 2000-01; Wes Helms, Jason Marquis and DeRosa in 2002; Horatio Ramirez in 2003; CHarles Thomas and Adam LaRoche in 2004; Francouer, McCann, Davies, Betemit, Langerhans in 2005; Chuck James, McBride, Paronto and Yates in 2006. 2007 will probably bring more: Brayan Pena as the back up to McCann, Devine might have more of a role, Prado and Aybar as well.
The Braves have perfected the art staying competitive. They would have been this year if not for all the injuries. 4 starting pitchers and 2-3 relievers missed significant time this year. Not many teams would be around .500 given those circumstances.
The Braves do not need to trade Andruw Jones to be competitive in 3-5 years. Even if he leaves as a free agent, they will have $13.5 million to get players to fill holes. It’s better to keep Jones for 2007 and hope he takes another hometown discount to stay beyond next year.
By BB FAN
September 22, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
Shaun, The Braves can dominate next year as well as 2, 3, 4, ect years down the road. They have been doing that for 15 years. They bring in young players to go along with the veterens every few years.
It started with Smoltz, Glavine in 1988-89; Justice, Merker and Avery in the 1990-91; Javy Lopez, Chipper Jones, Ryan Klesko in 1993-95; Andruw Jones, Jermaine Dye in 1996; Ligtenberg, John Rocker, Kevin Millwood in 1998-99; Furcal, Giles in 2000-01; Wes Helms, Jason Marquis and DeRosa in 2002; Horatio Ramirez in 2003; CHarles Thomas and Adam LaRoche in 2004; Francouer, McCann, Davies, Betemit, Langerhans in 2005; Chuck James, McBride, Paronto and Yates in 2006. 2007 will probably bring more: Brayan Pena as the back up to McCann, Devine might have more of a role, Prado and Aybar as well.
The Braves have perfected the art staying competitive. They would have been this year if not for all the injuries. 4 starting pitchers and 2-3 relievers missed significant time this year. Not many teams would be around .500 given those circumstances.
The Braves do not need to trade Andruw Jones to be competitive in 3-5 years. Even if he leaves as a free agent, they will have $13.5 million to get players to fill holes. It’s better to keep Jones for 2007 and hope he takes another hometown discount to stay beyond next year.
By geauxbraves2000
September 22, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this
I am not trying to gang up on you Shaun, and I fully respect your opinion and you have been very respectful in your rebutals and I thank you.
I just don’t think AJ is replaceable at this stage in his career. Those three youngsters would probably command (combined) the same salary as AJ would make in a couple of years, if not more, and I just don’t think there is anyone that can replace the “wins” that AJ is worth.
It might be a different a few season’s down the line, but if they frontload the contact then it would be a burden if he starts to decline. (I know I’m repeating myself, just bringing up the point again)
Geaux Braves!!
By BB FAN
September 22, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
The proof that this years team has been unlucky is in the fact that they have lost about 30 games by one run. I believe it leads the majors (or close to it).
The Mets, on the other hand, have won about 30 games by one run. I believe that also leads the majors (or close to it).
One run wins/losses stats can change drasticly from year to year. So I believe the Braves will be back in playoff contention next year and will probably win the NL East again.
By Bob, journalist
September 22, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
Ramblin’ from a wreck …
Some of you folks don’t seem to realize what we have had … and are having … the good fortune to witness. Obviously the streak; but the genius of Bobby Cox, the dogged determination and consistent excellence of John Smoltz, the defensive talents of Andruw Jones, the arm of Rafael Furcal; the swing of Adam LaRoche, the instincts and enthusiasm of Jeff Francoeur, the spark of Marcus Giles … goodness, let’s not be too anxious to make trade decisions without due consideration for the intrinsics. Those guys are good!
We’ll certainly miss them when their days on the stage are over … so let’s appreciate them while we have them and be less anxious to trade ‘em for a pig in a poke when they stumble, so to speak!
I sure miss ole Diz … I remember being a bit concerned about the bad influence his “slud into third base” might be on my young son … imagine that! Now I might be willing to give up a prospect or two to acquire his talents; on the mound or in the booth.
By geauxbraves2000
September 22, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
CORRECTION;
change “it would be burden” to “it wouldn’t be a burden”. Sorry.
By Rosalynn
September 22, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
Head Coach, Jimma asked me not to blog anymoah today but I saw youah post and had to comment. Jimma does too have a backbone! Just yesterday Jimma came into the kitchen and said, “Rosalynn, you can’t bake a decent biscuit to save youah life.” Well, I slapped that boy silly and he got right back up! No backbone, hmmph! I do think Head Coach is right about the Democrats. Until they learn to nominate someone who is electable they will fail again and again. Jimma is pulling for Hillary this yeah. She and Jimma share a love foah submarines and foah NY Yankees baseball. Jimma thinks that Joe Torre should never have been fired in Atlanta. Joe Torrre reminds Jimma a little of Miz Lillian. Whoa … was that the blogger formerly known as Jimmy Smith that just went by? Whoaaa… there he is again! That boy is just like my Jimma - all over the place. Some people even see him when he’s not there. Oh, the Habitat for Humanity!
By ncscoots
September 22, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
TPaul, thanks for the 3-run stats. Frankly, that number is higher than I would have thought. One-third IS a significant fraction…next, I guess I would have to see how many of those 3-or-less were close games (one- or two-run losses). In games of that type, a mondo base-stealer COULD have had an impact.
I thought the other interesting number was this: that the team scored 6-or-more the same number of times they were held to 3-or-less. Probably just a statistical quirk, though.
All in all, probably a fairly normal run distribution for a good-hitting, power-laden team like the Braves. So, while I’m not salivating over the prospect of a blazing, base-stealing, whirling-dervish-of-a-Tasmanian-Devil leadoff guy, I guess I won’t be so prickly about it when the REST of you guys bring it up :-)! As long as it’s not…that guy that DOB brought up.
By Bob, journalist
September 22, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Southern Bohunk? My oh my, the last time I checked, “bohunk” was a term used by illerate bigots to insult folks from Hungary and the Czech Republic … not us southern rednecks.
By The Grinch
September 22, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this
Rosalynn, you’re priceless. Journalist Bob, I agree we should try as hard as possible to keep the core of the team intact, and I beleive Chipper and Andruw are part of that core. By the way, Tech is actually winning games they’re supposed to this year; if they can win the rest of the easy ones (and that includee Miami this year) and split Va. Tech and Clemson, why, there might be a pretty good game come November! Looking forward to it.
By Lew
September 22, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
I tell you, go to the doctor and look at all there is to be addressed when you get home. TenPaul and RJIB-Thank God, Allah, Buddha or whoever you care to thank, that the two of you are here. At least you talk some sense, which is more than I can claim for a lot of the posters here. First- Robert-I didn’t say those things to you, only that YOU would be happy if BC left. But, you know what, you’ve been whipping on that same dead horse for some time now. Never heard you talk about anything else. Just because you’re convinced of his inadequacies, real or imagined, doesn’t mean anyone else cares. From comments I’ve seen, no one agrees with you. You really need a new rant. Nocturnal Emmmission-Or should that be Gee This Is How You Screw UP A Nocturnal Emmission- I am certainly glad I don’t have your psychological pathology. You and your alter egos are in need of serious psychotherapy. I’m really sorry if you are a shut in or have some physical infirmity that makes you a bitter, bent, warped, totally despicable human being, but you really need to get a grip on yourself/yourselves. I would call you Eve, but I am certain that you have more than 3 personalities. Maybe you should be called Sybil. Please get help before you turn into a serial killer or a rapist or something more harmful than a totally obnoxious a$$. Now Baseball-As a superior human to the misanthropic blogger will ever be has said-Shaun- Flat out Dude, you are delusional. I have no idea what system of insanity you use to determine the worth of baseball players, but man, you are so far out in left field that Juan Pierre couldn’t even hit you as a cutoff man. In no world that I’m aware of is Andruw or Francoeur NOT a productive player. And they are certainly better to have than that player Prospect. BTW, Is prospect any relation to Player to be Named Later? Yes, HR and RBI are great determinites of performance, no matter what you think. Next. Chipper is untradable. 10-5 and no one else will pick upo his salary (which he negotiated downward to help the team). You would just screw over a person willing to help the team, who just hit .318 with 23 HR in 100 games? Not only are you disloyal, you’re nuts. Andruw is also untradeable. Again, he’s also 10-5 and has REPEATEDLY said he dfoesn’t want to leave. He negotiated his contract on his own once. What makes you think he won’t again? Also, maybe no one is worth $14 million, but again I point out that candy bars ain’t a nickel,anymore and payphones, if they exist, no longer cost a dime. Wait until you see what Soriano asks for and you will realize that $14 mil is cheap for someone who hits those meaningless 35-50 HR and knocks in those meaningless 120 runs.Enough. Later. You may now attack me.
By knowitall
September 22, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
Lew, I agree. Everyone keeps screaming trade Andrew for prospects. Yes, Francour or Langerhans could move over and play center but who is going to be your #4 hitter? There is no one on the team who currently can be that guy. That means you have to go out and get one. Then you find yourself paying the same big bucks for another player might hit for a higher average but will not hit as many homeruns, drive in as many runs or be as good defensivly. This is the post steriod era people. 40 homer, 120 rbi guys are no longer a dime a dozen.
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
how many of those 3-or-less were close games (one- or two-run losses)
Total 1-Run games when scoring 3 or less: 20
1-Run game record when scoring 3 or less: 7-13
Includes 1 shutout.
Starting pitchers in these games:
Davies 1
Thomson 2
Sosa 3
Hudson 3
Smoltz 3
Cormier 3
Ramirez 4
All of those games were 4 runs or less by the opponent.
By kevin johnson
September 22, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
everybody wants to get rid of andruw, i don’t want to but what about this, andruw for alex rodriguez?
By BB FAN
September 22, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
knowitall,
Good point on the post steroid era. 40 Hrs and 120 RBIs does mean something now. And Andruw’s defense can never be replaced. There is nobody that plays center like Jones, not even Edmonds, Hunter or Beltran.
By geauxbraves2000
September 22, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
Oh my, want a quandary is the blog today, tech issues, trade AJ, don’t trade AJ (that’s right, don’t trade AJ, that, IMO, would be a monumental mistake), and other issues. Issues to be determined by the greatest GM ever - time. It has been enjoyable.
Good afternoon all. How about a sweep for the rest of the season, go out it a blaze of glory!
Geaux Braves!!
By kevin johnson
September 22, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
here ya go: far fetched but whats your opinion on this?
arod cano farnsworth for giles jones and young rp
or what about a. jones a. laroche t. yates for a. soriano r. zimmerman c. cordero
move chipper to 1b
all far fetched but lets play trade game
i still would love to see crawford come here crawford is awesome great deal would be to get kazmir, crawford from tampa bay
By Lew
September 22, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this
Kevin-Right-We will trade a player making $14 million, which people think is too much, a player with (about to be) nine Gold Gloves, for a player with defensive problems at a position we already have filled, who is making $25 million a year. No, I just don’t see it.
By kevin johnson
September 22, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this
i am telling you speed at the top with will always help the run scoring, especially late in the game i don’t think we should have gotten rid of betemit either look at the braves playoff run, always had speed at top, furcal, nixon, lofton,etc.
By Bob, journalist
September 22, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this
Grinch,
I agree that Rosalynn is priceless … but I can’t decide whether that means “free” or “of inestimable worth” … nice man, that Jimmy, even if he is a Democrat … he knows his peanuts.
In the days before two-platoon football … back when our math student rejects were sent to Athens to teach … the “Tech - Georgia” Freshman Game was the game of the year; an event not to be missed.
The Varsity Game was good too … especially the dawgs fixed the I like them; 4-5 at a time with chili and onions; couple of NIPCs with fries! Lordy Mr. Gordy, it was all good back then … and every once in a while, the Dawgs even made a game of it!
We should have beaten the four leaf clovers and I too am looking forward to this year.
later …
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
Total 2 Run or less games when scoring 3 or less: 30 2-Run or less game record when scoring 3 or less: 13-17 Includes 1 shutout.
All of those games were 5 runs or less by the opponent.
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
Soriano is a free agent at years end, so if we make that trade, we’d have him for about a week. Worst move ever.
By Salty55
September 22, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this
10Paul Interesting that HoRam had 4 of the decisions (I’m assuming?). Would he be talked as trade fodder had they come up as ‘W’? Thanks for the info.
Grinch All for Tech getting a split with VT and Clemson…as long as it’s VT they whup. Right, Scoots?
By MGL
September 22, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this
Kevin,
Betemit was no loss, at LA he is hitting .241 with 39 SO in 145 AB. 1 SB. Looks like he has lost his starting position. Just a good utility player as the Braves management recognized.
By NPD
September 22, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this
Lew lew lew .. I certainly don’t understand your rants against me when I am clearly addressing poor, poor pitiful jimmy smith who is beginning to exhibit signs of dysporia, and this may ultimately drive this poor lost soul to take the good advice of professionals and seek the treatment that he so desperately needs—anyhow Lew, could it possibly be that you and jimmy are one in the same? .. Bob, journalist,,,I believe your southernness is simply self-proclaimed bunk!…”Bohunk”!..
By TennesseePaul
September 22, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
Well, I should note that, they are the starting pitcher of record. But how they factored into the descision is something I haven’t kept track of in my database. Those numbers I posted were of the pitchers starting the games, the games could have been a win or loss.
By Robert
September 22, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this
This is simple math
Question 1 - During the 14 year “run”, have Cox’s teams been, based on player talent, better than average playoff teams?
Answer - YES
Now, an AVERAGE playoff team, there being 8 every year, should expect to win the WS once every 8 years, or 2 in 16 years
A BETTER THAN AVERAGE playoff team should win more often - 2 in 14 years would be at the bottom end of whast might bve expected
Forget for a moment that for a while during the run, there werent 8 playoff teams (which means each team would expect to win more often) -
At the outside edge of “bad luck” the Braves ought to have at LEAST two rings
(Based on player talent, 4 or 5)
So, AT BEST, Bobby Cox’s playoff record is HALF as good as it should be on AVERAGE
Read that again. He is HALF as good, at best, as an AVERAGE manager
Make all the excuses you want to for him. He is a donkey and must go
By the way, in ‘95, that Cleveland team that wasnt a pushover had a manager almost as bad as Cox (Hargrove)
The only other playoff team manager that’s even as in the same league as bad as Cox was Valentine - and who can forget that it took a bases loaded walk from Kenny Rogers ton Andru Jones in game 7 for Cox to “outmanage” Valentine in that classic playoff battle of witlesses
By Robert
September 22, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this
By the way, with a rotation of Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz - backed by Avery, or Neagle, or Millwood, or Neagle AND Millwood, having a .507 record in the playoffs is decidely NOT impressive
That rotation should do better than an average playoff team
.507 against the ‘98 Yankees - ok, you’ve shown me something
.507 overall, and 1 for 14 in rings - Any of y’all that have posted in this blog with the past six months could have guided the Braves with the same degree of success
ANY of y’all - Any peron, live or dead, past or present, real or fictional, could manage this team as well as Eeyore has
Ok, maybe not Bobby Valentine
By Robert
September 22, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this
“First- Robert-I didn’t say those things to you, only that YOU would be happy if BC left. But, you know what, you’ve been whipping on that same dead horse for some time now”
Y’all wouldnt be happy at the start. But I bet it would make all Braves fans happy to see a competative Braves team in the playoffs again. It’s been, what, 10 years since we last saw that?
I stay on the same horse because I find it unbelievable that perfectly sane people who obviously know baseball well, whom obviously devote a lot of time to follwoing the Braves, and who obviously care a lot about their team, are, as a whole, so taken in by this false myth of godhood that the media has betitled unto Cox
Never has one man received so much unearned praise for having underachieved so much - and everone buys it.
By Robert
September 22, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this
Here’s another missing piece. Folks, I’ve watching Cox FAR longer than any Braves fan
“Huh?” you say
Grew up in upstate New York - lived there til the mid 80’s
As in Syracuse Chiefs fan - the AAA affiliate of the Toronto Blue Jays - so was a Blue Jays fan at the time as well
Saw firsthand what Bobby Cox could do to a team’s World Series hopes way back in 1985
He showed he was a donkey then, when he snatched defeat from the jaws of a 3-1 series edge and looming victory, and he is a donkey today
Again, he did a good job as GM
As manager? None worse
By Carolina Lady
September 22, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this
Robert, did you notice that the blog was doing well until 5:45? That’s when you began your repeated rantings (yet again) about your insane hatred for Bobby Cox. Here it is 9:22 and not another post until mine. That should tell you something. Everybody is totally fed up with your Johnny-One-Note posts and nobody agrees with you. PLEASE leave us in peace! WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK!
By J Hartlage
September 24, 2006 06:02 AM | Link to this
In my opinion the ‘07 pitching staff should be OK but the addition of a solid, proven starter should be considered.
At present we have Wickman to close and Smoltz and James as starters. You’ve go to believe (hope, pray???) either one or both of Hudson and Hampton will return to prior form. Which leaves the rest of the crew (Davies, Cormier, Ramirez, Thomson and anyone else in the Spring) to step up and claim a spot (or two). Middle relief can be handled by Paronto, McBride and the rest.
However, adding another proven, solid starter would answer some of the questions above and make this a very good staff.
I doubt anyone will argue too much with the above but here comes the controversial part - how to get this solid, proven starter.
I propose dealing Francouer for one.
I know he’s Atlanta’s “poster-boy” but he’s also cheap, young, talented and loaded with potential (mostly unrealized) all of which makes him very valuable to a team loooking for some affordable offense.
His numbers (.260, 26HR, 98RBI) are good but not great (not even very good in my opinion), and pretty average when you consider the rest of Braves’ line-up.
The bottom line is, the Braves are a very good offensive team (with lots of unrealized potential from several sources) but we need consistent pitching; badly. Let’s deal some of this “unrealized potential” for what we need, solid pitching, and make this team a contender in ‘07.
As for why this bit of “unrealized potential” and not some of the other names -at present, he’s the most bang for the buck. He’s guaranteed HR’s and RBI’s and we, fortunately, have these to burn.
By J Hartlage
September 24, 2006 06:03 AM | Link to this
In my opinion the ‘07 pitching staff should be OK but the addition of a solid, proven starter should be considered.
At present we have Wickman to close and Smoltz and James as starters. You’ve go to believe (hope, pray???) either one or both of Hudson and Hampton will return to prior form. Which leaves the rest of the crew (Davies, Cormier, Ramirez, Thomson and anyone else in the Spring) to step up and claim a spot (or two). Middle relief can be handled by Paronto, McBride and the rest.
However, adding another proven, solid starter would answer some of the questions above and make this a very good staff.
I doubt anyone will argue too much with the above but here comes the controversial part - how to get this solid, proven starter.
I propose dealing Francouer for one.
I know he’s Atlanta’s “poster-boy” but he’s also cheap, young, talented and loaded with potential (mostly unrealized) all of which makes him very valuable to a team loooking for some affordable offense.
His numbers (.260, 26HR, 98RBI) are good but not great (not even very good in my opinion), and pretty average when you consider the rest of Braves’ line-up.
The bottom line is, the Braves are a very good offensive team (with lots of unrealized potential from several sources) but we need consistent pitching; badly. Let’s deal some of this “unrealized potential” for what we need, solid pitching, and make this team a contender in ‘07.
As for why this bit of “unrealized potential” and not some of the other names -at present, he’s the most bang for the buck. He’s guaranteed HR’s and RBI’s and we, fortunately, have these to burn.
By J Hartlage
September 24, 2006 06:07 AM | Link to this
In my opinion the ‘07 pitching staff should be OK but the addition of a solid, proven starter should be considered.
At present we have Wickman to close and Smoltz and James as starters. You’ve go to believe (hope, pray???) either one or both of Hudson and Hampton will return to prior form. Which leaves the rest of the crew (Davies, Cormier, Ramirez, Thomson and anyone else in the Spring) to step up and claim a spot (or two). Middle relief can be handled by Paronto, McBride and the rest.
However, adding another proven, solid starter would answer some of the questions above and make this a very good staff.
I doubt anyone will argue too much with the above but here comes the controversial part - how to get this solid, proven starter.
I propose dealing Francouer for one.
I know he’s Atlanta’s “poster-boy” but he’s also cheap, young, talented and loaded with potential (mostly unrealized) all of which makes him very valuable to a team loooking for some affordable offense.
His numbers (.260, 26HR, 98RBI) are good but not great (not even very good in my opinion), and pretty average when you consider the rest of Braves’ line-up.
The bottom line is, the Braves are a very good offensive team (with lots of unrealized potential from several sources) but we need consistent pitching; badly. Let’s deal some of this “unrealized potential” for what we need, solid pitching, and make this team a contender in ‘07.
As for why this bit of “unrealized potential” and not some of the other names -at present, he’s the most bang for the buck. He’s guaranteed HR’s and RBI’s and we, fortunately, have these to burn.
By J Hartlage
September 24, 2006 06:10 AM | Link to this
In my opinion the ‘07 pitching staff should be OK but the addition of a solid, proven starter should be considered.
At present we have Wickman to close and Smoltz and James as starters. You’ve go to believe (hope, pray???) either one or both of Hudson and Hampton will return to prior form. Which leaves the rest of the crew (Davies, Cormier, Ramirez, Thomson and anyone else in the Spring) to step up and claim a spot (or two). Middle relief can be handled by Paronto, McBride and the rest.
However, adding another proven, solid starter would answer some of the questions above and make this a very good staff.
I doubt anyone will argue too much with the above but here comes the controversial part - how to get this solid, proven starter.
I propose dealing Francouer for one.
I know he’s Atlanta’s “poster-boy” but he’s also cheap, young, talented and loaded with potential (mostly unrealized) all of which makes him very valuable to a team loooking for some affordable offense.
His numbers (.260, 26HR, 98RBI) are good but not great (not even very good in my opinion), and pretty average when you consider the rest of Braves’ line-up.
The bottom line is, the Braves are a very good offensive team (with lots of unrealized potential from several sources) but we need consistent pitching; badly. Let’s deal some of this “unrealized potential” for what we need, solid pitching, and make this team a contender in ‘07.
As for why this bit of “unrealized potential” and not some of the other names -at present, he’s the most bang for the buck. He’s guaranteed HR’s and RBI’s and we, fortunately, have these to burn.
By J Hartlage
September 24, 2006 06:29 AM | Link to this
Sorry to all for posting the last comment 4 times - I’m a “first time poster” and got carried away abit with the refresh button!
By Jacob
September 25, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this
Hudson will bounce back It seems to me that Tim Hudson, while enjoying run support, just had a bad year, nothing more. And you know, people. You watched his starts. When he was on, he was on. But here were days when he seemed unfocused, and don’t forget he pitched on quite a bit of short rest. There was an incredible amount of pressure, with every game essentially being a must-win after July. Let me tell you. That guy is a competitor. And if you think other teams don’t want him to take the rock while they take his salary, your delusional.