Braves

By Dave knockahomer

September 20, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

Well, Guy, DOB oughta have to suffer with the team at RFK! Guess he is some kind of slouch….but I am sure there are those who will defend him, come Hell or high water. Frankly, he is wimp! You do good, Guy! Keep it up!

By Dave knockahomer

September 20, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Well, well, well! the Great DOB won’t travel to RFK with the team! well, he oughta not go to Colorado either. Some kind of slouch is he, eh? but I am sure there are those who would defend him, come H_ or high water! DOB is a wimp!

Guy, you keep on keepin’ on! You do great!

GO BRAVES

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Guy, interesting post. Interesting. Nothing to monumental, but at least it was a little more laid out. I look forward to Thursday.

Now, let’s get a victory tonight. Who’s pitching? Is it Cormier? Hope he does well. Go Gittum!

GO BRAVES

By geauxbraves2000

September 20, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

Grinch, in reference to Rocky Balboa, I copied and pasted that description from the Yahoo Movies website, that is the actual plot.

By geauxbraves2000

September 20, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

It’s not Comier I’m worried about, it’s Ortiz. His record is 10-14, era 5.30. That’s what I’m worried about, the offense struggles against pitchers like this. Why? Because THEY SWING AT EVERY STINKING PITCH AND WON’T LET THE OPPOSING PITCHER GET IN TROUBLE!

I hope Smoltz reads this and relays it to his team.

Okay, I’m better now.

Geaux Braves!!

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

Ortiz isn’t a new trick is he? That’d be a double whammy. Rookie with a bad record… we’d be in for a perfect game.

Let’s gittum Cormier.

We can still get this team to .500

By Lew

September 20, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

Knockahomer-Ah the smell of redundancy in its myriad forms. Whatever.

By geauxbraves2000

September 20, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

You are going to put me 6 feet under with that thought TennPaul, a rookie with a bad record. :))

By The Grinch

September 20, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

Good lord, Geaux; then it’s worse than I thought. What’s it been, 10 years at least since the last one (maybe more like 12 or 13) and that’s the best he can come up with? The sad thing is, it’ll probably be a hit (pardon the pun). Jimmy; how ironic. I walk into the house with a bag full of tomatoes, okra and basil, and see your tomatoe-related post. Perhaps you are psychic, after all.

By geauxbraves2000

September 20, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

Rocky V was in 1990, 16 years ago. According to the plot he was brain damaged in that movie. I guess modern technology has allowed him to recover. I am a huge movie buff, have watch hundreds of movies thoughout the past few years, and this is one of the most ridiculous plots I’ve seen. At least let Rocky Balboa be the original Rocky’s son or something. Oh sorry, wrong blog.

Geaux Braves!!

By GoJackets

September 20, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

breaking news

wickman resigned for 2007

By Mickey

September 20, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

GET UP you sunofabich, cuz Mickey luvs ya…

By Vol

September 20, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

True about Wickman? I haven’t seen it.

By BB

September 20, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

Wickman resigned!

Where is the AJC on this?

By Lew

September 20, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

It is official. It is on the Braves website. Wicky signed a one year deal to stay in Atlanta. No financial terms disclosed. Next year looks much better already!

By David O'Brien

September 20, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

Knockahomer, why you gotta hate like that?

A big kiss to you from out here in Boulder.

(by the way, I did the two previous series at D.C. this season, including the four-game series that neither of the other beat writers covered, Bowman or Haney. Just for the record. So I don’t know what Guy’s talking about, though it is true I try to avoid going to that armpit of a stadium, so that’s accurate. And I did successfully avoid two of three trips there last season. So again, there is some validity….)

Going to be chilly for the games out here in Denver, in the upper 40s at night. Beautiful today, but turning cooler tonight.

How ‘bout the Rockies _ if they win today, which it looks like they will, it’ll be eight in a row at home, where they’ve apparently stopped using the humidors on the baseballs, judging from the offensive explosion in past few weeks.

Might not be the best time to face them for a team trying desperately to get to .500….

By the way, the recommendations that a few or our music aficionados regarding Tony Joe White’s “The Heroines” were right on target, by the way. Excellent CD. I finally got it couple days ago.

Pencil it in on your calendars: Black Keys at Variety Playhouse Nov. 10. Might well be the best live band going today.

By geauxbraves2000

September 20, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

Woo hoo - Braves general manager John Schuerholz won’t enter a second consecutive offseason in search of a closer. Bob Wickman has agreed to come back to serve in that role for the 2007 season. Before Wednesday night’s game against the Nationals at RFK Stadium, Schuerholz announced that the club had agreed in principle with Wickman on a one-year contract.

1 glaring need solved!!

Geaux Braves.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 20, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

closer signed and ajc nowhere in sight. oh, the harmatia.

By The Grinch

September 20, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

Go Wicky! BB, it’s no surprise; ESPN’s website often has news about the Braves or Falcons before the AJC. Of course, they also have many more people working for them and are constantly updating. Yeah, Geauxbraves, at least he could have done some sort of sad soliloquy about a punch-drunk, aging Rocky (like the end of Raging Bull), and tried to regain some self-respect as an actor. Oh, well. 16 years? Man, I’m gettin’ old.

By David O'Brien

September 20, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

Yes, it is true about Wickman. Talk about truly huge news. Braves are obviously determined to avoid the pitfalls of last winter….

Wow, is that breaking with their usual M.O. or what? That should send a message out. They’re serious. They have almost NEVER re-signed a guy before the end of the season.

By Shaun Payne

September 20, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

Lew and TennPaul,

To continue the discussion…

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Braves system. Obviously it is one of the best over the last 15-20 years. But why not get the best of other systems too, if you have the opportunity. The Braves can only draft so much talent. Other farm systems have talent, too. If we can trade some of our overvalued or soon to be overvalued (in terms of salary) vets for several quality young players, why not do it? It has worked for other organizations, like the Twins, A’s and Marlins. Sure, you can bring up a couple that haven’t worked out, but if you know what to look for it can work out.

I would argue that the Hudson trade has worked for the A’s. Look at Hudson now—he’s a quality pitcher, but not worth the money the Braves are paying him.

Now I’m not saying Schuerholz should run the Braves like the Marlins. Although it has worked in bringing them championships, I think it’s a big reason why there are few Marlin fans in South Florida. But take a page or two out of their book…that’s all I’m saying.

By Shaun Payne

September 20, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

One year for Wickman is a good move. I’m sure the dollar amount was not huge. Probably doesn’t limit payroll flexibility too much.

By The Grinch

September 20, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

Whoa, I didn’t think about that, DOB…what does that tell Smoltz and Andruw (especially Smoltz)? “We don’t do deals before the end of the season, you’ll be treated like anyone else.” D’OH!

By Shaun Payne

September 20, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien,

Is it going to cause more problems with Smoltz? “Homeboy” signs a pitcher like Wickman, but can’t pick up an option on Smoltz that already exists?

By Lew

September 20, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Actually, the Marlins only won one championship with the youth movement. The first had all the bruisers like Sheffield. When trying to win championships, however, those veterans are what you want. Bringing in all the kids should only be done when in desperate straights, which the Braves are not. Barring injuries, we will have a contending team next season. Very little really needs to be done, despite the purveyors of doom and gloom, to assure us being competitive, which is all you can really expect from any team. Money will be available as attrition occurs in the next several seasons. That, with our great farm system will keep us competitive for quite some time.

By Lew

September 20, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

It tells Smoltzie and Andruw that the more immediate need was to lock up Wicky. Andruw is already under contract, and Smoltz KNOWS they will pick up the option. JS just signed Wicky without having to go through a bidding war. Definitely the more immediate concern.

By Tony Almeida

September 20, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

That’s gonna p** Smoltzie off even more.

By Lew

September 20, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

Tony-When he’s pi$$ed he pitches better.

By David O'Brien

September 20, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

Folks, there’s no reason to try to figure out which of the guys up there got the scoop on this one, because there was no scoop. They all found out when it was announced, then it’s just a matter of who types something up or has someone back in their office type something up and gets it posted. That’s not a scoop.

A scoop is having it before it’s announced, not beating others to get it posted once you all learn about it at the same time, which, to my understanding, is how this happened. Nobody had dollar figures, and ESPN still didn’t have anything up when I checked 5 minutes ago, so no reason to insinuate that ESPN scooped the three guys covering Braves for AJC, Morris and MLB.com, because it’s simply not true. There was no leak, no scoop, and the signing was announced while ago to everyone at once.

And no, I’m not there and wasn’t making any calls yesterday or today, so I had nothing and had heard nothing of it.

By Tony Almeida

September 20, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

Yeah, but that’s kinda wasted now…need to find something to p** him off at the end of spring training next year.

By Tony Almeida

September 20, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

DOB’s just a slower typer.

By Shaun Payne

September 20, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Why not bring in as many quality young players as possible around the same age as McCann, Francouer, etc. before the players that age want big money? That way your not stuck with guys past their prime or guys that you had to settle for because you didn’t trade your vets when you had a chance?

I don’t know for sure, but it seems like when McCann and Francouer reach their primes in a few years, the Braves aren’t going to be willing or able to go out and sign whatever supporting players they want. Why not build for those years now by getting those supporting players now before they become too expensive for the Braves?

The Braves don’t have to have a full-fledge firesale. They “can’t” trade Chipper or Smoltz. They just need to prepare for the McCann, Francouer, etc. prime years where they can and don’t jeapordize their chances to be a dominant team in those years.

The chances that the Braves win 93-94 games next year doesn’t look likely to me at this point—everything would have to be perfect for that to happen. But it seems very likely that if Schuerholz can turn AJones, Giles, Hudson, etc. into something, the Braves will be a dominant team in three, four, five years.

Players generally peak in their late 20’s; the evidence shows that. So, why wouldn’t you want to set yourself up to get as many quality players that will be in their late 20’s at the same time as you can, if you can? AJones will probably remain very productive, but he’s probably not going to get much better than he has been the past two seasons…but he’s going to remain as expensive if not more. Hudson, it appears, is already passed his prime and his salary is not going to drop. Giles is still fairly young, but his salary is going to rise and the Braves reportedly have plenty of capable replacements that can be maybe 3/5ths as productive for probably a third of the price or less.

If healthy, the Braves can contend for a playoff spot with or without AJones, Giles and Hudson. But they aren’t likely to win 95-100 games like they could in a few years if they are smart.

By David O'Brien

September 20, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

Oh, and it doesn’t “tell” Smoltz or Andruw anything. Entirely different circumstances. One guy (Wickman) was about to become a free agent, the premier closer in a think market, and might’ve seen his price go a lot more than Braves wanted to go if they let him hit the market. They had to sign him now.

One guy (Andruw) is already under contract for next season, no reason to re-sign him yet until you see how he does, how he starts out next season if you keep him.

Other guy (Smoltz) has an $8 mill option for next year, and I’m sure they’ve already made it clear in so many words to him that they’re picking up the option.

By ncscoots

September 20, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

Why should Smoltz get ticked? Was he not the guy whining half the year about no bullpen help? He should be pleased that JS broke cover and signed the Fat Man early. Course, he’ll now have to figure out some other reason to act the diva, but…

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

It might be that Smoltz was assured all is well and that JS wants to excersize the option… but would rather do it in the offseason so that maybe they can hammer out another multi-year deal. Nothing like 4 years, but maybe resign with an option for the year after… All I know is, Smoltz came out of that meeting in good enough spirits. He’s here to stay and so is Wicky! YEAH!

GO BRAVES

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

You know… It could be that JS did this to use the remainder of that Chipper Money as the signing bonus…

By Lew

September 20, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Just exactly which players are you talking about past their prime that we should trade. Andruw? Chipper? Smoltz? You can’t trade them. They are 10-5 players who have eother given the team a discount or renegotiated their contracts to the Braves benefit. Besides, they are still performing at a high level. Marcus Giles? He’s 28 years old and hardly past his prime. They already have supporting players of the correct ages and if they decide not to sign these players when their contracts expire, they will have plenty of money to do whatever they want. They can fill in with our own farm system in the meantime. That’s why we HAVE a farm system. I just don’t understand this YOUTH thing at all. Name me two other WS winners beside the Marlins that ONE year that won with a bunch of kiddies. You can’t, because there is no one. Every WS winner had a sizeable quantity of veterans.

By Lew

September 20, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

Oh Shaun-One more thing. McCann and Francoeur are 22 -23 years old. They will hit their prime in 5-7 years. The old guard will be long gone by then and our own kids will take their place. Believe me-30 years old is not ancient-even in baseball.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 20, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

time for someone to wake-up bob. game starts in 30 minutes. journalist has not been posting. an impostor is using this journalist’s good name. unimaginative and limited in so many, many ways - the imposotr must be amusing himself. now, wicky … it is time to order more pants. the big closer will be with the team for another season. this is good information. now, the pen is looking better - that is until they have a game like they had last night …

By ncscoots

September 20, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

Lew, I don’t think even Shaun is suggesting the Braves go to war with a 25-man of 23-year-olds, but rather, have a roster full of productive players at their peak years all at the same time (at least, I think that’s the point). However, that scenario would not produce the kind of consistent winning the Braves have had, IMO. A group of studs together at 28 are a group of “older” players TOGETHER at 33. Would that then mean that THAT team would have to be blown up and rebuilt yet again? I think so. Instead, as the Bravess have done for a decade or so, better to feed in a couple of kids a year, put them in positions to succeed without feeling the team’s success lies on their shoulders, keep stocking the farm, and repeat as needed. Last year and this year are the aberrations in that MO, but it’s worked pretty well. An, trust me, from a marketing standpoint, you do NOT succeed by alienating your customer base every few years and then trying to woo them back. It costs much less to keep a good customer than to find a new one. The business analogy to baseball isn’t perfect, but it’s close enough for IRS work.

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Payne: Even with Hudson’s poor performance this year, that trade was not a good trade for Bean. Bean got nothing. And Hudson’s making $4 million this season which is less than what Thomson made this year. Bean gave him away. He got nothing in return. Everyone in the industry knew he couldn’t afford him.
Look at it this way… JS was caught between a rock and a hard place. He had just offered arbitration to Maddux and Maddux took it. That sapped the cash out of the bank. Everyone knew the Braves couldn’t afford to keep all their pitchers. So, JS, dealing from a similar position as Bean was with Hudson, dealt a pitcher whom he couldn’t afford, Millwood, to the Phillies for a catcher who became an All Star and hit .300 and lead the league half the year with runners in scoring position (over .500 in that situation, better than a roided up Bonds for 3 months, and just as slow). Bean deals Hudson for 3 players and not one of them has helped the club and two of them are no longer with the club. Bean lost on that trade no matter how you cut it. And, despite Hudson’s weakness this year the Braves are 20-13 in his starts. It isn’t pretty, reliable, or helpful to the bullpen, but the wins are there. The money saved was lost on the fact that he could have pulled a Beckett Trade and received a rookie pitcher who can toss no-hitters along with an amazing SS. But he didn’t. He got nothing.

Why not bring in as many quality young players as possible around the same age as McCann, Francoeur, etc. before the players that age want big money
I would stipulate that this would prevent the club from building upon itself. Notice what is going on now? Most all the veterans on this club are guys who came up through this club and have played with this club their entire career. Their career’s over lap with the young ones now playing. This insures the passing along of tradition and team unity.
Also, say we do this. Out of the typical 14 position players Cox has, 12 of them are now young guys the same age as McCann and Francoeur. Then, when Francoeur and McCann are getting expensive…. so is the entire team… resulting in nearly 100% turnover in one off-season.
This point was the one thing MoneyBall was about… trying to build a club that is self-supplying so that it can contend every year. Bean choose to do this based on 90% statistical analysis. JS has done it based on 90% scouting analysis. The Braves are blessed to have a higher payroll than the A’s. It’s nice. It means we can keep our really, really good players after they reach FA. We don’t need to trade them off prior to FA.

As Chipper would say: Being a [life time player for one team] is a rare commodity in this day and age…. I take pride in that.

Alright, time for the march back home and the nightmare that that is…. see you guys in about 3 hours. GO BRAVES

By Knockahoma

September 20, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

I’m sure the Wickman signing resonates well with Smoltz. JS will not pick up Smoltz’s one year option until the season is over because the team does not deal with existing players during the season. Interesting how he found time to deal with Wickman. Way to treat the best Braves player of all time, Schuerputz.

It’s clear that Arthur Blank has adopted the anti-Braves strategy with the Falcons. He continually addresses the fans by saying his team wants Superbowls, not division titles. He also went out and picked up a placekicker the moment it was clear the one he had was not working. Had the Braves acted in such a manner to their deficiencies, they may actually have more than one WS title. Maybe Cox can watch the playoffs on TV this year to see how successful managers get it done in October.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH! JS knows when to hold ‘em and when to fold ‘em. He has done phase one of a 3 phase plan to get the Braves back into the playoffs. The other two phases are to strenghten the bullpen more and to get a leadoff hitter.

DOB, I couldn’t agree more with what you said. I can guarantee that after the way Wickman has performed under stressful circumstances here in Atlanta that someone (Red Sox) would have paid him at least $10 mil next season. JS did the right thing signing him now to what I am sure is at least half of that. Smoltz’s option will surely be picked up and besides its a team option so Smoltz can only leave if the Braves let him. Andruw is still under contract through next season and I think that JS will (or at least should) make Andruw make his mind up in November about what he wants. If he is sincere about staying a Brave, then he should sign an extension then. If he hee haws around at all about it, JS has to shop him around. He can’t be concerned about Andruw’s feelings or the fans’ feelings. He has to do what is best for the team. I’m sure if the Braves got the likes of Soriano or Vernon Wells and won a WS next season Andruw’s departure would be quickly forgotten.

By 10-7-4

September 20, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

geaubraves2000—I thought Rocky was ‘brain damaged’ in the original movie.

By Tomahawkin

September 20, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this

In haven’t been here in a grip…

Good resigning Wickman 4 next year, I dunno about you guys, but I want to see Diaz or someone else playing everyday in leftfield, The Langerhans experiment has failed, he’s to pull-conscious to hit on a consistant basis

Orr and Reeksma need to go as well, I’ll be damned if they are hear next year…

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: Just saw your post… right on again! To bad the delay is going on, other wise I could save my fingers from cramping. You have a good head on your shoulders.

GO BRAVES

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

Lew, I have to say I see where Shaun is coming from. Now, I come from a slightly different angle regarding trading Andruw and Giles. I think those trades should be made because they will fill the gaps the Braves need. Not to mention it would be silly to just let Andruw walk out the door for nothing. I know he says he wants to stay in Atlanta but when the likes of the Red Sox and Dodgers come calling offering $17 mil compared to the $15 or so the Braves would offer, not to mention the attractive offer of DHing some for an AL team and saving his knees, will he really say no. Can you say with 100% or even 90% certainty that he would stay in Atlanta?

Regarding Giles, he is honestly the most expendable and tradeable guy on the team. We have plenty of options to use to replace him and he can bring in a trade the pitching this team so desperately needs.

Everyone has to look at the big picture and take their personal feelings out of it. If I had my way, Giles and Andruw would be Braves for the next 7 or 8 years, but is that really what is in the best interest of the team?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

I think JS will be between a rock and a hard place with Diaz as well. On the surface he would be crazy not to keep him, but they have to get a leadoff hitter and the only viable position that leadoff hitter could play is LF unless Andruw gets traded. Giles has to go and Prado would not be the answer in the leadoff position.

By geauxbraves2000

September 20, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

To my recollection the Braves have never gone and stocked themselves with a bunch of veterans, except for 1991 when the run started. Now I may be wrong, with getting a little older comes memories of truth and memories of fantasy, but it seems like the Braves have always relied on their kids. Javy, Klesko, Justice, Lemke, Blauser, Gant, C Jones, A Jones…just to name a few. It’s no different now, just the names have changed. There’s no need to take away from other teams farms when yours is probably better anyway. Kudos to those in charge of the farm, developing etc.

Geaux Braves!!

By Thomas

September 20, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this

how much are the braves gonna pay wickman.

By geauxbraves2000

September 20, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this

Okay everyone, I’m off to Church. Let’s root the Breves onto victory. I sure would love to see this team get above .500.

Geaux Braves!!

By Stinky

September 20, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Now JJS is trying to deny everything.

By TommyB

September 20, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

OK, Davy OB… You keep hitting those ‘black keys’ so I finally went to iTunes.

I just sort of skipped around on a few tunes and I have to say, I like ‘em.

There’s an element of very early Kinks in there.

I grabbed at least 3-4 tunes.

Gracias.

By dadgum

September 20, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Robert….agree on Andruw completely. He should give JS a hometown nod early or we have to search early for a trade he will approve. Never should the Braves wait until next year to resign him, that is akin to Russian Roulette. I can’t imagine Andruw suiting up in LF without a nice contract that will keep him a Brave through say 2011. My guess is that if he does start ‘07 without a contract he will get one but it won’t be with Atlanta.

Also a thought I haven’t heard mentioned yet…say he does play with the Braves in ‘07 and is then traded say in mid-season what kind of negative impact is that going to have on any momentum at that time regardless of who they get. This is why I feel certain that every positive scenario points to Andruw being signed or traded early as opposed to say after Jan.1st. Given Wickman today I see JS getting the team set early and that should send Andruw a clear message. GET IT DONE EARLY DUDE BECAUSE YOU ARE EITHER WITH US OR YOU AREN”T. HERE IS 14 MIL/YR FOR 5 YEARS TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. ARE YOU WITH US?

Oh yeah…he could easily play out his contract not sign a new one or veto any trade. Thereby signing a free agent contract with the new team giving the Braves two compensatory draft picks in return. Ouch!!! Get it done early JS please, one way or the other. Makes no difference to me or a lot of others on this blog. While you are at it pick up Smoltz’ option this week too and maybe Andruw will see you are in a signing mood.

By mat

September 20, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

does anyone know where to find the picture of glavine smoltz and maddox all in the same pics

By TheSouthernJackAss

September 20, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

Just thought I would drop by and say hello to all my good friends, and thank each and every one of you who sent cards, letters, emails, and various gifts during my brief absence. I would also like to assure everyone that I will be spending even more time than before with you wonderful and kind people!!!…GOD BLESS!!!…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this

Dadgum, that is exactly right. The fact is the Braves can’t afford to wait until the trade deadline next season to trade Andruw. Presumably the Braves will be in the playoff hunt and they probably wouldn’t get as much in return at the deadline as they would in the offseason. The other problem is Andruw could flat out refuse the trade, which he is more likely to do in the middle of a season than in the offseason, thus, putting the team in a horrible position. I get tired of hearing how they would get two draft picks if he walks. Who cares? Lets get actual value for him now. Now, if he agrees to resgin this winter, then fine, but if he doesn’t cut the strings. You have to make good business decisions.

People will say what about Chipper. Well, I’ll tell you I think Chipper would take a discount to stay a Brave. If JS said he could only give him $8 mil instead of $11 mil, I honestly think Chipper would say okay. Andruw, on the other hand, I’m not so sure. Its not because I think he is greedy or unloyal but because an AL team can offer Andruw not only more money but the chance to rest his knees and shoulders while still playing everyday as a DH. The Braves can’t offer that. Don’t underestimate what allure that could have to Andruw.

Its just like Bonds. He says he wants to stay in San Fran and I’m sure he is sincere but when he really sits down and thinks about how much wear and tear on his body will be saved by being a DH I think he will change his mind.

By TommyB

September 20, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this

SouthernJackAss,

Nothing would please me more.

Have a margarita on the house.

By Shaun Payne

September 20, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

Lew, TennPaul, etc.,

I recently read a quote from the new book about the Red Sox front office. In it Theo Epstein warns about the dangers of building an “uberteam.” Basically he talks about trading young players for veterans to try to win that year. Well, he’s tried to build the type of team that he didn’t want and now the Red Sox are suffering the consequences. He talks about how you sometime have to take a step back in order to take two steps forward. Although Epstein didn’t take his own advice, it’s still good advice. You may have to avoid the temptation to sign that big free agent or trade some of your veterans so that you’ll be in a position to win in the long-term.

…

Just exactly which players are you talking about past their prime that we should trade. Andruw? Chipper? Smoltz? You can’t trade them. They are 10-5 players who have eother given the team a discount or renegotiated their contracts to the Braves benefit. Besides, they are still performing at a high level. Marcus Giles? He’s 28 years old and hardly past his prime. They already have supporting players of the correct ages and if they decide not to sign these players when their contracts expire, they will have plenty of money to do whatever they want. They can fill in with our own farm system in the meantime. That’s why we HAVE a farm system. I just don’t understand this YOUTH thing at all. Name me two other WS winners beside the Marlins that ONE year that won with a bunch of kiddies. You can’t, because there is no one. Every WS winner had a sizeable quantity of veterans.

I understand that Smoltz, Chipper, Andruw and maybe Giles are still productive. And many of them may remain productive for several more seasons. But their contracts are still high (or will be soon), even if they aren’t as high as they could be. I would like to see them trade whoever they can to get those 22-, 23-year-olds to make the core stronger 4 or 5 years from now.

Obviously they aren’t going to be able to trade or get fair value for all of those vets, but they should try to get fair value for as many of those guys as possible. Also you don’t want to trade all your vets because you don’t want to make it look like you’re giving up and you don’t want to turn your back on your fans (ala the Florida Marlins).

And I understand the Braves have a more than capable farm system, that’s not the point. The point is you can get even more quality young players so that you are loaded for a good chance at a 95-100-win season in 4 or 5 years. I would rather have a team filled with players mostly in their late 20’s than a team filled with a few players in their late 20’s and a lot of expensive 34, 35-year-olds.

If Schuerholz trades the veterans that he can for the “right” young players, the Braves aren’t going to drop out of contention next year (barring injuries). But does anyone think the Braves can be a 95-100-win team next year even with all the vets back? Why not deal with a 85-92 win season next year and set yourself up for a 95-100-win season in four or five years? I would rather do that than hope that when the time comes (when my young players start to peak) we can get what we need.

In four or five years, I don’t see the Mets’ payroll dropping. I don’t see the Braves being able to go out and outbid the Mets for a player they need. The way I see it, the Braves’ next best chance for a dominant team, the best team in the league, is in four or five years. They won’t fall off, but I don’t see them all of the sudden becoming the best team in the league next year or the next couple of years. Why not increase the odds for becoming the best team in the league in four or five years since you know it’s not likely you are going to be the best team in the league in the next couple of years?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this

SJA, on behalf of everyone I must say, “Yippee! We’ll be waiting with eager anticipation.”

By The Grinch

September 20, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this

It’s “P” player time!

By TheSouthernJackAss

September 20, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

Why thank you!…Thank you very much!!…And now the JackAss must retire for the evening!!!…Once again, thank you all!!!…It almost brings tears to the ol’ JackAss’s eyes!!!…GOODNITE!!!

By Thomas

September 20, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

tell me its not true, chipper injures again.

By Thomas

September 20, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

Robert are you suggesting that if Andruw whent to the AL he will DH. WHY would you do that to a 9-time gold glover.

By The Grinch

September 20, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

Thomas, that’s a good question. Take away his defense, and he isn’t worth 17 million per to anybody. I think we need to keep him if we can.

By Lew

September 20, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this

Scoots-The team you describe is EXACTLY what the Braves have now, not the type of team Shaun attributes to Theo Epstein. We do not have an old team. McCann is young. Francoeur is young. Giles is only 28. Langerhans, Diaz, Villarreal, Cormier, Orr, Prado, Aybar, both the Penas. All of these players are young. Hudson is not old, nor is James, Davies or Horacio. Now we do need to make some adjustments and maybe it would be better to let Andruw and Giles walk, but this fixation with so many kids is unreal. The Red Sox had a very old, very expensive team with absolutely no productive farm system. We are dealing with apples and oranges. Personally, I don’t care about letting players walk as a free agent. So what? You get their performance while they are here and the money from their salaries when they are gone, and you go out and get more. We still have a viable team next year and will for years afterwards with our own farm system and using freed up $$ to fill in the gaps. Why is it necessary to dump all players who make over $5 million or are over 30? It is sheer folly to do so. I had also asked Shaun to name two teams OTHER than the One young Marlins team to win a WS championship with all kids. He didn’t respond, because there are none. That one Marlins team was an abberration, pure and simple. You win with a mix of youths and veterans.

By Lew

September 20, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

The Nationals announcers said Chipper left with a sore toe. The humanity. Hey Jacka$$-How’s it going Dude?

By BS

September 20, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

Is Chipper hurt again?

By Thomas

September 20, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

I know what happened to Johnny Damon this year is very unloyal to Boston. He stated that he would never join the Yankees, well every man has his price, the same with Furcal he said he wanted to stay with the Braves, but that contract was to big to deny, and now Andruw is stating he will accept a huge paycutt, should we trust on it?

By Lew

September 20, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

Thomas-I don’t know where you heard him say that, but he has done it before. He could have gone free agent before he renegotiated his current contract. He resigned with the Braves for much less than he could have gotten on the open market. It WAS at the same time Manny being Manny and ARod signed those ridiculous contracts. So will he again? Who knows? But remember, he did it once. If he doesn’t, so what. We will have $14 million to spend on his replacement.

By Bob, journalist

September 20, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

I busted my elbow earlier today andain’t supposed to be here at the keys but, couldn’t resist … Bob Wickman’s signing is mighty sweet music!

I must say that I’m a bit surprised at 10 Paul’s slowness in recognizing the good head on the shoulders our Scoots … intellegence, knowledge and wisdom … things not often found in the same place at the same time.

Regarding the offense, Scoots, I stay with my season-long posit that the talent to dominate is there, or at least available within the system … though I wish we could add a Charlie Lou or Willie Keeler advocate to the mix!

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the Honorable Southern’s Phoenix was more than someone’s abuse of the pen!

Intellegence, knowledge and wisdom … it’s a shame more of us can’t sit at that table … why do we insist on confusing them with education?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

Thomas, I didn’t say that Andruw would want to go to the AL to DH full time but he could take a day off a week from CF which would allow him to save some wear and tear on his knees but not have to come out of the lineup because he could DH. The Yankees did it with Damon quite a bit this season. You guys are right in that there is no way Andruw is worth $17 mil as a DH but as a CF 75% of the time and a DH the other 25% would work very nicely for any AL team.

By Carolina Lady

September 20, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this

Journalist Bob, more info is required on the elbow!

By JJMB

September 20, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

Hey, did you guys know Ted Turner was on CNBC, being interviewed by Donnie Duetchbag right now?

By flbravesgirl

September 20, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

Bob, what did you do to your elbow? I hope it’s not serious.

I’m thrilled to hear about Wickman! So glad we don’t have that question hanging over the team any more.

Cormier was scaring me early in the game tonight but he pulled it together nicely. Good game, maybe the boys were getting geared up for Colorado with the homers? DOB, hope you’ve packed some warm stuff. Sounds like it’s chilly out there.

By Bob, journalist

September 20, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

10 Paul … signing Wicked Bob and winning the game on the same day … ain’t life wonderful?!!

Grinch, Thomas, et alia

Can’t afford to wait for any possible responses to my last post which I’ll later address should that be appropriate …

Supper, and a bath, and possible scolding await but it you were to take away the defining attributes that a player brings to the table … the most likely result would be a severe loss of appetite … it’s unlikely that Andruw would perform well in the role of a designated anything.

Of course, I have a hard time accepting the suggestion that players perform well, continually looking over their shoulders to see if management is contemplating some move that will place them in jeopardy.

later …

By MEB

September 20, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

Hallelujah!!! Wickman and a Braves victory what a great day. Now lets give Chipper and Andruw the year off and let them get healthy. JJS please don’t trade away our young pitching talent and I think this team will be in the hunt next October.

GO BRAVES!!!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

I think they need to shut Chipper down for the year. They don’t have a realistic hope of making the playoffs. I understand Chipper wanting to keep the integrity of the game intact, but that last series in Houston isn’t going to determine anything. The Astros are out it too. I just think he needs to shut her down before he winds up injuring himself so badly that it carries into next season.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

I think trading Davies or James would be a serious mistake but shopping Hudson and Ramirez would be a very good move.

By The Grinch

September 20, 2006 11:02 PM | Link to this

Bob, how many times do I have to tell you to stay off the skateboard? Really, though; I hope it’s nothing serious. We need you in fighting trim to keep the blog in order! You’re correct; education isn’t the solitary mark a person should be judged by (thank god, since I can’t spell to save my life), but not everyone is blessed with a positive outlook. In truth, I’m a rather bitter man myself on occasion. But, as my sainted grandmother used to say: “It’ll all come out in the wash.” She said that so often the Elder Grinch (her son) is still considering adding the inscription on her headstone “It all came out in the wash.” I think she’d approve.

By Head Coach

September 20, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this

SSSUUUUUUWWWEEEEEETTTTTTT ! I just woke up to the great news ! What a coup by JS ! Keeping Wickman off the free agent market is brilliant ! This is what happens when Bobby Cox is the Manager and JS is the GM. Players want to play for Cox and I must give a big high five to Wickman for his character and honesty. Pencil the Braves in as a playoff contender for 2007. The only thing left to do is to go and get a leadoff hitter. they have plenty of depth in the rotation , a closer , great defense and the bullpen is starting to round out. This will make resigning Baez a breeze and the addition of Daryle Ward makes Thorman expendable. Go Braves !

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this

Well, I think our esteemed Journalist Jimmy Smith is needed. It has been confirmed that Chipper left the game with a sore toe on his right foot. Oh, the humanity!

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this

Shaun, RJIB:

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 11:20 PM | Link to this

Head Coach, I don’t see how signing Wickman makes signing Baez a breeze. If Baez thinks he can close and honestly why wouldn’t he think that, then he will get somebody to pay him a lot of money to close. Now, if Baez wants to stay because he likes it here, then he will sign a decent offer but if he believes he can close I will bet you some team(s) will give him more money than what’s he worth. The Red Sox, Cubs, Reds, and Giants are just a few of teams in need of a closer and who may be willing to overpay for Baez’s services.

I think the Braves would be better off letting him go and trying to find a cheaper but solid option for a setup guy through a trade.

And, yes, you’re absolutely right about Thorman. I think signing Daryle Ward would make Thorman expendable and I honestly believe he could bring some value. I know what everyone will say but the Devil Rays need starting pitching, a catcher, and a 1B and we have all three (Ramirez, B.Pena or Salty, and Thorman). It is worth the effor to get Crawford. The Rays are concerned about payroll and they would be getting three major league ready players for the price of one. Not a bad deal for a team trying to build and stay cheap at the same time.

By Bob, journalist

September 20, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this

Fine ladies in Carolina and South of Georgia, thanks for askin’! I’m doin’ okay but I think I now know what Tourette’s Syndrome must be like … it’s what folks’s do when they grab hold of the handle of a castiron skillet being “seasoned” and then, in recoil, slinging their arm around so as to introduce their elbow to the corner of a countertop!

Black, blue and still a little swollen, the lingering effects are soreness in the elbow and bicep area with a bit of numness and occassional pain in the wrist and pinky finger … it’s a lot better than 4 hours ago … but limited activity is probably prudent.

There seems to be concern about Chipper … what happened?

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

WAY TO GO BRAVOS!

Glad to see the win tonight. And Cormier… Can I get a Hotdamn! I am very pleased with him. Very pleased indeed.

GO BRAVES

Now, after I posted that list of points I realized I forgot to add this… I’m not for trading Andruw. But, my reasons are simple. I don’t think we need to trade him. Because I don’t think there is a need… I don’t think we should trade him, regardless of his contract status. Since there is no need, then any trade of him would be simply to trade. And I don’t think players should be traded simply to trade. I have yet to see a conviencing argument for the need of the trade. We had a 95+ win season in 2004. Working the way JS has over the last 15 years, we’ve had 10 95+ win seasons. One strike shortened which had the winning percentage of a 95+ win season for a total of 11 out of 15. I think we can have another one soon if we stick with the formula.

By Stinky

September 20, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith has sexual relations with men

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

Tennessee Paul, I do agree with Payne but for slightly different reasons. I don’t think trying to get a team all the same age is smart either. Like someone said earlier, a team of “28 year olds” would be great now but just an “old team” in five years. My reason for trading Andruw is what he could bring in return. I’m not advocating trading him for some A ballers. I think Andruw could bring major league ready talent. I think the Angels would seriously consider a deal involving Andurw for a Howie Kendrick, Erwin Santana/Kelvim Escobar, and a prospect. The White Sox could send Posednik and a Juan Uribe in a deal. The Blue Jays would consider sending Vernon Wells IMO because Wells is not going to resign with them and they don’t want to lose him to free agency and not get anything of real value in return.

I think the team’s age is just fine. They have a terrific mix of youngsters, “young” veterans, and veterans (who are not just old fools trying to relive their glory days ie: Pratt, Jordan, and Remlinger).

All I’m saying is if….IF Andruw will not resign this winter, which he should if he is so serious about staying a Brave, then the smart business and baseball decision would be to shop him around and see who bites. I think a lot of you would be surprised at what some teams would give up to get Andruw. Lets not forget the Mets were willing to give up Milledge for Linebrink at the break. Linebrink is good but not that good. The Dodgers gave Furcal $13 mil a year for the next three years for God’s sake. Never underestimate the desperation or stupidity of GMs.

By 1 out of 14

September 20, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this

What hyprcrites are employed by the AJC??Covering the disaster that is the braves 2006 season isn’t enough. Now they are so high and mighty that they are qualified to judge another teams ballpark. The braves, their fans,and media have been among the most arrogant and pompouse in sports over the last 10 years. Many(not all) have acted as if they’ve won 14 World series in a row instead of division, Which is nothing more than a consolation prize for those who are unable to achieve the ultimate prize. Does it make you feel better when you look down on other organizations? Stop living in a vacum and get your own s-h-i-t together.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this

One more thing. Please, don’t dismiss the importance of a leadoff hitter. Yes, this offense has the third most runs in the NL. However, how many games this year have we seen the inability of this offense to “manufacture” runs. Aside from the bullpen how many of the one runs losses would be wins if this team could simply score a few runs without having to crank out HRs and deep doubles. I don’t see how anyone who watched Juan Pierre last week do what he did here not see how vital a speedy leadoff hitter can be to a lineup. And yes the Cubs are horrible but Pierre is not the reason. Where would they be without him? Think about that.

By flbravesgirl

September 20, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this

Ouch, Bob! Remember the potholder next time, OK?

Chipper left the game with a sore toe. We need esteemed journalist jimmy to get on this story ASAP.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this

The reason Andruw could be traded is because he could bring some pitching to this team. I totally agree with DOB about getting another starter. Can anyone honestly sit here and feel confident about the rotation with Hampton (coming off injury), Smoltz (who will be 40 and history of elbow trouble), Hudson (who has been less than stellar his two seasons here), Ramirez (who is injury prone at best), Davies (who is unproven), and James (who is great but still learning)? If Andruw could bring the likes of an Escobar or Santana, how could you not want a starter like that.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

SJA, I thought you had retired for the night?

By Head Coach

September 20, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

I meant to say that signing Baez will be a breeze because the Braves will be in a position of Strength and they can lowball him into a smaller contract or let him walk if he gets overpaid by another organization. Trading starting pitching is ALWAYS a bad idea.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 20, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this

1 out of 14, hope your Mets’ AA pitching staff holds up in the playoffs and don’t get swept by the Dodgers or Padres, okay, there pal.

By 1 out of 14

September 20, 2006 11:50 PM | Link to this

What is your reference to the Mets supposed to mean? Your arrogance knows no bounds, now you know what baseball team I follow…….What a fool.

By Bob, journalist

September 21, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

Grinch, fighting trim is a state with which I’m not familiar … for those who cannot find the good and positive, they only need to look … like Lady Agatha said, they’re sitting right there beside each other on the coffee table.

We may be related, “It’ll all come out in the wash.” … is a family saying of long standing with which I am most familiar.

The elbow will be fine but this activity is doing it no favors so I’ll probably retire for the evening unless something of import arises.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 21, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

No, fool, I don’t but only a Mets fan would come on to this blog with such utter nonsense and dribble. The writers of the AJC are far from hypocrites. Everyone critcizes RFK. The National players themselves are the worst critics. So, give it a rest. If you think the Braves and their fans are so arrogant and distasteful, then simply go somewhere else. No one is making you be here. If you want to come onto an ATLANTA BRAVES blog and insult the team and the fans, then you should prepare yourself for the reactions and the responses. Again, if we are all so arrogant then simply go somewhere else where arrogance doesn’t abound, okay buddy!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 21, 2006 12:08 AM | Link to this

Why do people who hate the Braves so much insist on coming to their blog? Go some freakin’ where else! You don’t see me going to the Yankee or Mets blogs. Why? I don’t like them so why go there. I guess now even the writers can’t give their opinions about a crappy stadium. And I thought SJA was annoying.

By Michael A.

September 21, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this

This is useless, but just wanted to point out that if the Braves had gone one game under 500 for the terrible month of June, they’d be at 80 and 71 and leading the NL Wild Card standings by one game.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 21, 2006 12:25 AM | Link to this

Its not useless, Michael. Its a very good point. June is the month that did the Braves in. They went 6-21. If they could have gone just 11-16, they would be right in the thick of it. It kind of burns me up becasue how many games were lost becasue LaRoche was platooning, Sosa was taking up an undeserved roster spot, and Pratt was playing instead of B. Pena. Yes, the bullpen was still bad and no true closer was on the team but the best available team wasn’t always fielded either. What if Diaz was playing everyday in LF instead of continously trotting out Langerhans? Can’t cry over spilled milk but you can’t but help to wonder.

By TennesseePaul

September 21, 2006 12:26 AM | Link to this

RJIB: Well, if the Cubs didn’t trade for Pierre, they’d still have their young pitchers and players… they’d probably be better off. Though they’d still be the Cubs.
I watched the Cubs series, Pierre is fast. But, I watched the Braves take 3 of 4 against Pierre. I’m not saying a better leadoff guy wouldn’t help… but I don’t think AJ is the one to trade. And I am pretty sure that the Angels aren’t going to give up Howie Kendrick, Erwin Santana/Kelvim Escobar. Let’s put it this way, we need pop in the line up and a right fielder… would you be happy if we trade Wainwright, Marquis and King for One year of JD Drew? That’s all anyone is guaranteed to get from Andruw. If he isn’t signing a contract because he wants the FA money, then he isn’t signing a contract within anyone until he’s a FA. Why would he turn down signing early, to sign early? That means the Angels give up way more than just 2 or 3 players. They potentially give up Andruw as well. Stoneman doesn’t work like that. At least, not at that steep of a price. He was willing to move those guys for Tejada. But Tejada is under contract for a while.

By Kentavo

September 21, 2006 12:33 AM | Link to this

I say let Andruw dangle - so that he actually busts his butt to put up big numbers for a big frea ageent contract. Kinda like J.D. Drew did. It’s calle a contract year. Still, I am in favor of trading him. I know he’s a great centerfielder and we’ll miss that defense, but I cannot stand the offense side of him - he’s a terrible influence on the other players (not morally or anything, but just the way he plays the game nonchalantly).

By Bob, journalist

September 21, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this

Hats off to the Mets!

Maybe winning the Division isn’t that important to some but you sure couldn’t tell it from the reactions of the Met players, fans and management when they clinched!

It’s something of which they should be justly proud … and which they have been trying to to for a long, long time.

They now join the Cubs, Priates, Phillies and Braves as teams that have won the Division since 1988.

By Head Coach

September 21, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this

Robert , the Mets fans dont have a blog of their own , dont you feel sorry for them ? LOL ! Trade Salty and Thorman for Carl Crawford ? In a heartbeat , yes I would. Trading starting pitching is always a bad idea.

By Bob, journalist

September 21, 2006 12:44 AM | Link to this

Opps! Grinch, “they only need to look …” was intended to be “they need only to look for the bad and negative … ” followed by “they’re all sitting right there beside each other …”

goodnight!

By NPD

September 21, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this

So where is our resident narcissist jimmy “journalist” this cool morning? .. Off staring at himself in the mirror?

By gotigers72

September 21, 2006 01:11 AM | Link to this

JS has a good start for 2007 with the signing of Wickman, and the improvement of the bench with Daryle Ward. Believe it or not, they’re not that far away. Offense is OK, starting pitching needs a little tweaking, putrid bullpen needs an extreme makeover as bad as Rosie O’Donnell.

For God’s sake, don’t let the following see the Braves’ bullpen ever again: Reitsma, Ray, Foster, Yates, Barry, Franklin. Maybes: Villareal, Cormier, Devine. Keepers: Wickman [of course], McBride, Paronto

By gpburdell

September 21, 2006 01:19 AM | Link to this

Great news about re-signing Big Bob. That and winning the game made this a very good night. Now if we can just cut down on the strikeouts and not be quite so home run reliant…

By Bob, journalist

September 21, 2006 01:31 AM | Link to this

George P,

You’ve got it reversed … take it from an old wreck, if we would just cut down home run reliance, the strikeouts would diminish … or so one would hope!

By Tomahawkin

September 21, 2006 01:37 AM | Link to this

Dizam!!!ESPN Is Making Me Sick! Has anyone seen the crap on ESPN About the Yankees and Mutts clinching their divisions, and showing all da postgame interviews and shyt…In all da 14 years we were lucky 4 them to even show the highlights of us clinching year after year, Gawd that Network SUCKS!

By Alex

September 21, 2006 01:44 AM | Link to this

1 of 14…back to your parent’s basement it is!

By The Grinch

September 21, 2006 02:07 AM | Link to this

Back again, but for a moment. Bob, glad to hear you’re ok. Being a “seasoned” veteran, you should have been aware of that pan’s intentions! The literary options on my coffee table encompass both good and evil; though I’m a “shades of grey” sort of individual. It’s not quite so cut-and-dried for me. I’ve been accused of both. As such, and being full of roasted pork, it’s time for me to enter into the land of nod. G’night, all!

By The Grinch

September 21, 2006 02:10 AM | Link to this

P.S., T’hawkin’, you’re absolutely right, bro. Sports media in general has tried so hard to ignore the Braves for so long an alien nation visiting a thousand years from now would never even know we existed. Jealousy rears its ugly head. Night.

By Head Coach

September 21, 2006 02:45 AM | Link to this

E.S.P.N. The acronym stands for : Especially Stupid People Network

By Michael

September 21, 2006 02:47 AM | Link to this

It has taken DC United forever to get a soccer stadium up there. Now apparently the Nationals are on the same course. What else could we really expect out of Washington, D.C.?

I forsee DC United being outta there before the Nats, however. It takes under 2 years to put up a soccer stadium and they’ve been working on it longer. The Nats just got sold and haven’t begun sharpening their red-tape scissors. Best of luck to Stan dealing with that mess for a while.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 21, 2006 07:46 AM | Link to this

As good as this offense is, it needs another solid bat and preferably one with speed. The inability of anyone on this team to steal bases is a liability. Speed produces runs without towering home runs having to be hit.

By Shaun

September 21, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this

TennPaul and Lew,

If the Braves let Andruw and Giles and some other vets walk, we may miss the opportunity to raid another team for its top prospects. I’m not saying it’s a sure thing, but maybe a team would be willing to give the Braves “too much” of their top young talent for Andruw Jones (Angels?) or other vets.

I know the Braves don’t have to trade any vets, but it would make them stronger in the long run. I don’t want the Braves to trade AJones or Giles or Hudson or any vet because they have to or because they are going to be “bogged down” by old players or because they need to dump salary. I want the Braves to explore trading the vets because, if they are smart about it, it could make the team better in the long run…possibly dominant.

Even if the Braves hang on to players like Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles, I don’t see them being a dominant team (winning 95-100 games) next season. Yes, the Braves should contend next season, but if they are smart about it, they can contend without players like AJones and Giles. The Braves can afford to trade AJ and Giles and some other vets, possibly setting themselves up for a 95-100-win season in a few years (if they make the right trades), and still be good enough to contend next season.

By Shaun

September 21, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best,

I think you’re overrating speed. How much speed did the Braves have this year? Not much and you could make the argument that they were one of the top two offenses in the league.

Not that speed can’t help, but getting on-base/avoiding outs and hitting for power is much more important. Speed can obviously help you get on base and help you stretch hits into extra-bases, but it’s not necessary. I guarantee you that if you look at the top scoring teams in baseball history, some will be fast and some will be slow and some will be somewhere in the middle; there is no correlation of speed and scoring.

By KC

September 21, 2006 08:48 AM | Link to this

I think John Shuerholz is the best in the business, but the credit for acquiring and re-signing Bob Wickman belongs to the Braves’ Skipper.

Bobby Cox is one of the best managers in baseball… scratch that, in baseball history not because of his in-game strategy. I tend to think that there’s not much difference from one major league manager from another in that regard. They all have different styles, but they all get it right most of the time, and make a few bad calls along the way… Bobby’s no exception). No, what makes BC great is the respect he commands, the confidence he instills in his players (especially the young guys who need a shot of confidence from time to time), and the fact that players want to play and play well for Bobby Cox.

There have been many instances in which players have decided to come to or remain in Atlanta (for less than full market value) in very large part because they wanted to play for Bobby Cox. Bob Wickman is only the most recent example.

Everyone marveled at Shuerholz’s wizardry, picking up a guy like Wickman while giving up very little in return. Again, I think JS is the best but clearly it was Bobby, and not JS, who deserved credit for that trade. Wickman referred back with fondness to BC’s having selected him for the NL all-star team back when ‘Wick’ was with the Brewers. Though he only played under Bobby for that one game, it left a lasting impression and he’s had a deep respect for BC ever since. Wickman revealed after suiting up with the Braves that he vetoed a few trades (he had 10-5 powers) before accepting the deal that sent him to Atlanta. If Wickman didn’t verbally spell it out for the Cleveland GM, he eventually figured it out: Bob Wickman wanted to go to Atlanta… largely for an opportunity to play for Bobby Cox. The Indians sent Wickman to Atlanta because Wickman left them no other options.

One more thing in regard to the respect that Bobby commands… remember the two manager-player altercations that took place in Toronto earlier this season? Can you imagine that happening in Atlanta? No, me neither.

Bobby Cox will be remembered as one of the best ever, and he deserves every last accolade a major league manager can receive.

By KC

September 21, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this

I think John Shuerholz is the best in the business, but the credit for acquiring and re-signing Bob Wickman belongs to the Braves’ Skipper.

Bobby Cox is one of the best managers in baseball… scratch that, in baseball history not because of his in-game strategy. I tend to think that there’s not much difference from one major league manager from another in that regard. They all have different styles, but they all get it right most of the time, and make a few bad calls along the way… Bobby’s no exception). No, what makes BC great is the respect he commands, the confidence he instills in his players (especially the young guys who need a shot of confidence from time to time), and the fact that players want to play and play well for Bobby Cox.

There have been many instances in which players have decided to come to or remain in Atlanta (for less than full market value) in very large part because they wanted to play for Bobby Cox. Bob Wickman is only the most recent example.

Everyone marveled at Shuerholz’s wizardry, picking up a guy like Wickman while giving up very little in return. Again, I think JS is the best but clearly it was Bobby, and not JS, who deserved credit for that trade. Wickman referred back with fondness to BC’s having selected him for the NL all-star team back when ‘Wick’ was with the Brewers. Though he only played under Bobby for that one game, it left a lasting impression and he’s had a deep respect for BC ever since. Wickman revealed after suiting up with the Braves that he vetoed a few trades (he had 10-5 powers) before accepting the deal that sent him to Atlanta. If Wickman didn’t verbally spell it out for the Cleveland GM, he eventually figured it out: Bob Wickman wanted to go to Atlanta… largely for an opportunity to play for Bobby Cox. The Indians sent Wickman to Atlanta because Wickman left them no other options.

One more thing in regard to the respect that Bobby commands… remember the two manager-player altercations that took place in Toronto earlier this season? Can you imagine that happening in Atlanta? No, me neither.

Bobby Cox will be remembered as one of the best ever, and he deserves every last accolade a major league manager can receive.

By KC

September 21, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

Maybe Lance Cormier’s gonna be a good one. Whadya think?

By KC

September 21, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

So for the repeat… the post didn’t show up the first time.

By Ken

September 21, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this

Anybody know Ward’s contract status? What are the chances of the Braves having him next year? They didn’t have a reliable pinch-hitter this year after Julio left, until Ward came along.

By Lew

September 21, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

For the past couple of weeks I have been certain that minimal moves would be made to the team this offseason. However, I just read JS’s comments about resigning Wicky. He said that this was just the first move to strengthen the pitching staff to bring it back to where it was for 14-15 years. Oh well, maybe we will be dominant next year. I still think they’ll keep Marcus and I don’t think it possible to trade the Joneses or Smoltz.

By Lew

September 21, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

KC-Great post about BC. I also think Cormier and Villarreal will turn out to be an excellent trade when all is said and done. Villarreal is looking better and better, both as a long reliever and a spot starter, the longer it is since his surgery. Cormier has only had one bad outing since becoming a starter. Lots to be hopeful about.

By Shaun

September 21, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

Lew,

I just don’t see how the Braves could be dominant next year (with or without AJones, Giles, Hudson, etc.) unless a lot of things go perfectly and they get extremely lucky.

That said, I see no reason why they can’t contend for a playoff spot, especially if the Mets drop off some.

I would love to be wrong—I would love for the Braves to put together a 100-win season next year—but I’m realist and I would be thrilled with a 86-win season and a playoff berth.

By KC

September 21, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

Lew

I agree. A few months ago it looked like that Estrada trade didn’t work out as well as the Braves hoped, but it could turn out to be a highly profitable trade. In fact, right now I would say that the Braves are profiting from it. Too bad is doesn’t really mean anything… but Cormier and Villareal have been very important to Atlanta, over the last month especially.

If Cormier can turn in 2 more good starts between now and the end of the season… it could mean Kyle Davies’ head on the chopping block this winter. I think Atlanta will be quite happy to have a starter waiting in the wings at AAA as an insurance policy… but you don’t need two major league starters pitching at AAA.

I think there’s a better than average chance that Cormier will be the guy waiting in the wings, essentially as the 6th starter. I suppose that will depend on Davies trade value. If it’s reasonably high… he might not be a Brave much longer.

By KC

September 21, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

I believe Ward’s contract expires at the end of the season. While I would love to keep Ward, I would rather have Wes Helms. He is also eligible for free agency this winter.

We’ve got left-handed bats on the bench: Langerhanz, Orr, Thorman (who really never deserved to get sent back down to AAA, and will probably be with ATL most all of next season). Brian Pena could be the backup catcher next year, and he also bats left-handed.

As well as Ward has performed off the bench this year, Helms has performed equally well each of the past 2-3 seasons in part-time duty. He would give solid right-handed pop off the bench, and he plays 3 positions (3rd, 1st, OF). Of course his ability to play 3rd base is the most important thing with our Chipper-turned-K.GriffeyJR. 3rd baseman. Of course, Aybar’s looked good since coming to Atlanta, but it’s always nice to have another option to back up 3B.

By Lew

September 21, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

Shaun-Dude, I respect you as an intelligent individual, but why do you think we can’t be dominant? The only question marks lie in the pitching. We have already addressed the closer problem. JS says more moves to strengthen pitching are on the way. The rewst of the bullpen looks much better than it did this year. Villarreal is doing fine in long relief. Excellent actually. Paronto has proven himself dependable, as has Barry. Yates will be further along from his surgery. Even without a successful return of Foster and Boyer, things are definitely looking up. Let’s also not forget Devine, who is much improved. The rotation apparently will be worked on, but Smoltz is solid, Hampton should come back well and James is well on the way to becoming a quite dependable starter. He has a good make up and is a competitor. Hudson is Hudson and I feel will be the one starter whose future with the Braves is iffy. We’ve just discussed Cormier and Davies still has potential. It takes time to recover from surgery and I bet if the Braves had won the division or were in the playoffs, Davies would not have pitched again this year. Our astarting lineup is fine. We have the $$ to keep everyone. Marcus had one bad month and I don’t think it possible to trade the Joneses or Smoltz. Now-the competition. The Mets are aging and have no starting staff. It is not certain they will pick up Glavine’s option and Pedro had a bad year and won’t get much healthier. Trachsel did it with smoke and mirrors. Floyd and Delgado missed substantial time. Beltran is inconsisitent and misses time. Floyd may be gone. The Mets don’t scare me unless we have another 6-21 month. The Phillies have no pitching. Ditto the Nats. The Marlins have overachieved and I don’t expect their sophmore season to be spectacular. So tell me where we’re going to be non-competitive for the division.

By Shaun

September 21, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

KC,

I think it would be rediculous for Schuerholz to trade Davies, unless he got a top young pitcher and hitter…and I mean among the top two prospects in all of baseball.

Check out Davies’s pro numbers—excellent K/BB ratio and HR rate. Why would you trade a young pitcher with an excellent track record throughout his pro career? Barring injury, he’s almost certain to become a quality major league pitcher.

By Shaun

September 21, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

Lew,

The offense is fine. I’m just not convinced the pitching staff can be one of the best in the league. I do think it will be much improved, but I don’t think it can be good enough to make the Braves a dominant team (a 100-win team). Like I said, I see no reason the Braves can’t be a playoff team, but I don’t see how they are going to become a 95-100-win team next season.

That’s why I say build up a team that can win 95-100 in a few years. They have a solid core, all they need to do is acquire some additional pieces. And, even if Schuerholz does try to build a team that can win 95-100 in a few years, the Braves can still contend next year.

If they trade Andruw, Giles and Hudson, at worst they would have Langerhans in CF, Aybar and Prado at 2B, and could probably find someone at least close to Hudson’s ability for the rotation. At best, they would get very good young players at 2B, CF and/or P.

By KC

September 21, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I know you might tell me that I’m looking to much at traditional numbers here… but an ERA of almost 5.00 last year, and over 7.00 this year ain’t exactly a great track record.

Now don’t get me wrong, Davies is very young and inexperienced so I’m not crucifying him for rough numbers this early in his career. He’s got a chance to be an excellent pitcher. I’m in no hurry to see him go. I’m not saying the Braves should trade him… just that it could happen.

By KC

September 21, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

MY TOP-10 ATLANTA BRAVES FREE AGENT WISH LIST

1 – Alfonso Soriano: To pay Soriano, it would probably take parting with Marcus Giles and either Tim Hudson or Andruw Jones . I’m not in any hurry to get rid of Hudson. I think he’ll have a bounce-back year next season and earn his money… but if you can get Soriano, it might be worth letting Hudson go. A better option would be to trade Andruw if he would accept a trade. I say that only because Andruw’s trade value is much higher than Huddy’s right now. Would I rather have Soriano than Andruw? I’m not sure. Would I rather have Soriano plus what we could get in return for Andruw instead of Andruw… absolutely.

2 – Juan Pierre: I think we’ll be just fine with Giles as our leadoff hitter, but it would be nice to have some real speed at the top of the order. (I should note that it would pain me to see Matt Diaz benched. That guy is a hitter. I would also hate to not see Scott Thorman get a chance to prove himself… but Pierre would make this lineup better.) I’m sure he’ll be priced well out of Atlanta’s range, but one can dream.

3 – Jason Schmidt: I think our rotation is already in great shape for next year, but you make room for a pitcher like that. You could clear the necessary salary space by trading Hudson and Giles. (Again, I’m in no hurry to see Hudson go, but Schmidt is a big-game power pitcher… the kind that wins in October.)

4 – Kenny Lofton:If he would sign with no assurance of a starting role, he would be a valuable player to have. Pete Orr is quick, but we really don’t have a base-stealing pinch runner option on this team. Heck… we don’t even have a starting base-stealing threat.

5 – Danys Baez: He had only two rough outings in Atlanta, one of which (if not both) can be directly attributed to a health issue that is not resolved. It would be great to have him hammering down the 8th inning, and it gives us another option to close should Wickman go on the DL or need a day off.

6 – Steve Kline: If we can’t re-sign Baez, it would be nice to get another proven veteran setup man.

7 – Javy Lopez: If he were willing to sign as a backup catcher it would be great to not have such a steep offensive drop off when McCann rests. That would also give us right-handed power off the bench… but Lopez will likely sign as a starter somewhere for more significantly more money that ATL would be willing to pay a backup catcher.

8 – Wes Helms: He’s the perfect bench player for ATL. (please see previous post).

9 – Mike Remlinger: Just kidding.

10 – Jeff Conine: If we can’t get Helms, he’s the next best thing. He can also play 1st, 3rd, or OF… though he hasn’t played much 3B.

By KC

September 21, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

Lew, agreed. The Braves look good for next year, and I don’t see the Mets as any kind of a juggernaut. I am of the opinion that they overachieved this year. Glavine started out great, but faded as the season went along (as has been his pattern over the last 5 years). Pedro is aging and spending a lot of time on the DL, and they have no one after that in their rotation. The Mets rode their offense and their bullpen to the post-season. I’m not sure they can do it again. If they pick up Schmidt or Zito plus another solid starter… I’ll consider them a threat next season. If they don’t substantially upgrade their rotation, I think they will once again find themselves in a very familiar place… second place.

By Shaun

September 21, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

KC,

You are looking just at his major league numbers. Try looking at all his pro numbers (major and minor league). He’s still very young, about 3 or 4 years from his peak.

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/D/Kyle-Davies.shtml

No matter what some people tell you, minor league performance is usually a pretty good indicator of major league performance.

Obviously injuries are always a concern with pitchers, but Davies will be fine barring a significant arm injury.

By KC

September 21, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

CORRECTION: In regard to Baez, I meant to say that his health issues are “now resolved”.

By geauxbraves2000

September 21, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

KC, I think Comier/Villareal will serve just fine as a #5, but they need at least a #3 starter. If they keep Hudson, I put him at best a #4, however I will thank Huddy for his service and tell him he may be better advised to go back to the AL. So, that leaves Smoltz #1, Hampton #2, maybe CJames could be #3, more than likely #4 in my book however. I think CJ will be a great one, but even Maddux & Glavine didn’t start at the top.

The Braves need to finish out 7-3 to finish over .500. Can they? The face a resurgenct at home CO team 4 times, the Mets, who will have nothing to play for by then but I’m sure would love to put the nails in, and three with Houston, mainly for pride. The can only lose 1 game in each series. Whaddya think? Can they?

Geaux Braves!!

By Shaun

September 21, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

KC,

Most of those players you mentioned are either going to be very expensive or old or both. Signing most of those players would do more harm than good, unless they come at a remarkable discount.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 21, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

yes, it is a toe. a sore second toe (perhaps one of only two toes on this foot?). chipper had to leave the game last night owing to this sore second toe. toes are not to be trifled with. now, how sore was this toe? how sore does a toe get? if a sore toe takes chipper from the lineup to which he has just returned does this mean the toe hurts worse than the oblique? and what of the hammy? perhaps it is time for this fine ballplayer to retire with dignity intact. now, journalist has a sore toe of journalist’s own. everytime journalist posts, a cowardly blogger taunts this journalist then posts using jimmy smith’s name. many will know this is not jimmy smith but some may not. journalist suspects the usual culprit - a weakling who hides behind many names. could we string together these identities and catch this culprit? if caught he can be put on a stringer and left to dangle in the water. now, andruw … kept fowling the ball off on his foot last night yet he did not come out of the game with a sore foot. and finally, to meb … this journalist has no intention of trading away young pitching talent. journalist will defer, however, to js. selah.

By geauxbraves2000

September 21, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

Good names KC. If I may rebut: (please take no offense, this is just my opinion and you know, opinions are like buttholes, we all got ‘em and they all stink :))

1) Soriano - would love to have him, but he is probably going to demand and get about a 156 billion (yes I said billion) dollar deal from probably the Yankees or Mets, or even the Angels.

2) Juan Pierre - not a bad choice, I said no to him earlier, but I think I’m on the fence about him.

3) Schmidt - Get-r-done!!

4) Lotfon - excellent choice, but I don’t think he will want to be relegated to a part time role. However he did play for BC once in his carreer, so who knows?

5) Baez - why not, let’s see what he can do. He had an off year in LA, maybe he could turn in around in ATL.

6) Kline - no opinion

7) Javy Lopez - I think he was upset in Baltimore because he wanted to play more. I don’t he’s ready for a backup role yet.

8) Wes Helms - Get-r-done!!

9) Very Funny :)

10) Conine - no opinion.

Geaux Braves!!

By geauxbraves2000

September 21, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

Okay, one more and it’s time to get back to work. In reference to Chipper. Chipper is a threat in this lineup, his defense is adequate and I’ve not heard of him being detrimental to the team in any way. That being said, I might have to agree with jjs (even if jjs was just said it in jest) if Chipper is going to start to be a liability to this team with injuries, then just maybe he may want to consider hanging up his spikes. Like I’ve said many times, my wife is a Cubs fan so I’ve followed them for a while now, and I noted how much the Kerry Wood & Mark Prior injuries have hurt the Cubs finacially. They had all this money tied up in them, thinking they would be healthly and have to pay the contracts, and by that their resources start to run low, so they couldn’t go sign 2 or 3 top FA’s. They of course didn’t think they had to. Then Wood & Prior go down, and it’s too late to replace them, so, well, we all know what the Cubs have done this year.

Sorry if I rambled. I know what I’m trying to say, but sometimes it’s hard to type it.

Geaux Braves!!

By TennesseePaul

September 21, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

Payne: Why is it so hard to see the Braves being dominant again, and soon? I’m assuming, when you use the term dominant, you are referring to the 95-100 win season you speak so much of. Since July 1st, the Braves have played .556 ball. That’s 90 win ball. Now, if the Pitching is brought back to life, like JS says he’s going to try to do, then this team is very close to 95+. Extremely close. This year’s woes were related to pitching (pitching injuries and ineffectiveness). If the pitchers were better, like they used to be back in the 90’s, we’d be sitting on 96 wins today headed for a 102 win season. With the great outings we’ve been seeing lately from the young guys, there is a lot of promise that next year will be fabulous. The addition of one solid veteran might just do the trick. The pen is certainly going to be better… though, I was reading the Braves Notes on mlb.com and there was mention of bringing Reitsma back (shudder).

I still don’t see the need to jetison a player, a good, possibly great, player because he is expecting a 3.8 percent raise from this season. And this talk of sending AJ to the AL to DH. I’m not buying that either. This season, as in most seasons with Andruw, his defense is his most valuable asset. He’s struggling to hit .260 this year. He may get the 40 homers and 100 RBI’s, but that doesn’t change the uber-streaks he goes through.
Anyway, I say keep him. We have a very talented farm system. We just pillaged the D-Backs for Cormier and Villarreal. We pillaged the Phillies for an all star catcher a couple of years ago. We stole from the Royals when we picked up Diaz. We traded Betemit for a younger guy who can switch hit, steal bases. All of these guys are major league ready, and young. And at least 3 of them aren’t even arbitration eligible. Plus we have the solid veterans in place. Our system doesn’t need restocking.

By KC

September 21, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

Rumors of Tim Hudson’s are greatly exaggerated.

To those of you who have long since sold all of your Tim Hudson stock… I feel obligated to tell you that I think you’re jumping the gun a little here.

Tim Hudson has had a lousy (recently better but still inconsistent) 3 months. Before the control problems started for him around the middle of June, he was throwing the ball quite well and had an ERA of 3.79. Now that’s not a great ERA, but it’s good. That ERA is comparable to or lower than the current ERA of pitchers like John Smoltz and Dontrelle Willis, and Barry Zito.

And this notion that he hasn’t pitched well since coming to Atlanta just kills me. Last year Hudson finished with 14 wins (which would have easily been 18 or 19 with a different bullpen) and an ERA of 3.52, which is excellent. He did that despite pitching through injury much of the season.

Let’s keep this in perspective. He’s not the first great pitcher to have a lousy ½ of a season. If the inconsistency carries very far into next season, then I’ll be ready to join the Hudson hecklers. Right now I just think it’s too soon to give up on a 30 year old pitcher with his track record.

By knowitall

September 21, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

KC, I don’t mean to sound condescending but ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? Have you watched the guys on your list play or are you just going off of their names. The Braves will never sign Pierre because he is a liability on defense. He has to have one of the weakest outfield arms in the majors. Yes he has speed but he’s not better a better hitter than Giles. Jason Schmidt is on record saying that he hates to pitch at Turner Field. I’m not going to look up the stats but his last outing proved it. He got absolutely lit up. Something like 7 runs in 2 or 3 innings. Javy Lopes—see Sammy Sosa. No roids=slow bat. Bryan Pena is a much better option.

By Lew

September 21, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

Shaun-Langerhans in center field will assure that the Braves are out of the playoffs. Period. That’s it. Forget it. Now, do I need to remind you that Chipper, Andruw and Smoltz are untradeable unless they agree? Giles is tradeable IF you get someone worthwhile, which I doubt. Besides he is so affordable at $5million, that it really makes little sense to trade him. Why do you think we have to win 100 games to be effective? In the 14 year run, only 6 were 100 game winners and we were there every year (even if we only won 1 WS). I think you are expecting way too much that is hardly necessary. Shore up the pitching and we’re good to go next year AND in the future.

By Lew

September 21, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

TenPaul-Thanks, Dude-You are, as usual, the voice of reason. We are not a bad team. We had a bad month!. A few tweaks, one of which has already been made, are all we need. When did we see JS worrying about 4-5 years down the road. He deals with things as they come and leaves the future to the farm system. I like the idea of Helms or Conine, though. Shaun, please find the stats on Jason Schmidt ptching in Atlanta. I think you will find that he suc$$ in Atlanta. He doesn’t like pitching there and has acknowledged that he doesn’t. Even Jeff Torborg commented on it. He is not a good option.

By TennesseePaul

September 21, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

KC: Nice list though I don’t agree 100%. But it’s a good conversation peice. Here are my thoughts:

By KC

September 21, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

geauxbraves2000:

Yeah, most of the players on my wish list are not likely to sign with Atlanta… but that’s why I called a wish list.

I am not sold on the demise of Tim Hudson that so many in this forum have been trumpeting (as stated in previous post). If I were a betting man, I would wager that Hudson bounces back and has a very solid season for Atlanta next year. I also noticed that you left Horacio Ramirez out of the equation when you were talking about the rotation. So to quote White Goodman… let me hit you with some knowledge!

In his first 39 starts with the Braves, HoRam was 14-8 with a 3.59 ERA. Everyone in the organization has liked this kid a lot, and have believed for a few years now that he would be a top-of-the-rotation kind of pitcher. Last year he was a different pitcher from what he had show the Braves the first two years (and not in a good way). This year however, McDowell got him sinking the ball and avoiding the longball, and he did a lot to renew the confidence of the Braves organization. His ERA was marred by a few bad outings, but he was actually very good this year (when not injured).

Look at what HoRam did between the time he came off the DL in late may, and his final game in August: 5-4 with a 3.89. Those are above average numbers, but nothing great. However, those numbers are a little deceptive. Over that stretch, he made 12 starts. 3 of them were lousy, but the other 9 were absolutely stellar. How good was he in those 9 starts? He was 5-2 with a 1.73 ERA. If he can stay healthy, HoRam has got a chance to be one of the best lefties in the game… so don’t forget about him.

(He made only two starts outside of the 12 start stretch I referred to. Those two starts were both games in which he was pitching hurt, left early, and went straight on the DL… so for the purposes of gauging what kind of pitcher he is, I didn’t think those 2 starts to be relevant.)

By knowitall

September 21, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

Everyone keeps saying trade Andruw. My question is what exactly are we supposed to be trading him for? Just because he’s a free agent. I keep hearing trade him for young pitching prospects. Well, we already have young pitching prospects. That’s what James, Davies and Cormier are. Most of you have left Cormier off of your projected rotations for next year but I think he has a shot. His arm will be stronger next year and he could win the job in spring training. But back to Andruw, having him play the entire year next year and walk away wouldn’t exactly be a disaster. What if he helps carry the team to the World Series next year and walks away after the season? As someone pointed out earlier, it is a contract year and we know how most players play in a contract year.

By KC

September 21, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Again, to respond to some… I know many of the players on my wish list are highly unlikely to sign with the Braves, but that’s why I called it a WISH list.

knowitall:

Juan Pierre has a weak arm and therefore I’m out of my mind for suggesting the players on that list??? I agree with you that he is not a better hitter than Giles, but he is hitting in the .290’s and is one of the most dangerous base-stealing threats in the game. That has the added value of making the hitters behind you better.

As for Jason Schmidt… I am of the opinion that he is a good enough pitcher to get beyond any discomfort he feels pitching here. And BTW, often your comfort level as a visiting player can be very different from your comfort level if you play there everyday. There are many guys who perform at an extremely high level in a given park… until that team trades for him. I think the opposite is often true as well.

I think Jason Schmidt’s discomfort at Turner Field would present more of a problem for our ability to sign him (if we were trying to), than it would be a problem in terms of his ability to perform.

As for Javy Lopez, I want him as a back-up catcher and pinch-hitter nothing more.

By KC

September 21, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Again, to respond to some… I know many of the players on my wish list are highly unlikely to sign with the Braves, but that’s why I called it a WISH list.

knowitall:

Juan Pierre has a weak arm and therefore I’m out of my mind for suggesting the players on that list??? I agree with you that he is not a better hitter than Giles, but he is hitting in the .290’s and is one of the most dangerous base-stealing threats in the game. That has the added value of making the hitters behind you better.

As for Jason Schmidt… I am of the opinion that he is a good enough pitcher to get beyond any discomfort he feels pitching here. And BTW, often your comfort level as a visiting player can be very different from your comfort level if you play there everyday. There are many guys who perform at an extremely high level in a given park… until that team trades for him. I think the opposite is often true as well.

I think Jason Schmidt’s discomfort at Turner Field would present more of a problem for our ability to sign him (if we were trying to), than it would be a problem in terms of his ability to perform.

As for Javy Lopez, I want him as a back-up catcher and pinch-hitter nothing more.

By KC

September 21, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

Again, to respond to some… I know many of the players on my wish list are highly unlikely to sign with the Braves, but that’s why I called it a WISH list.

knowitall:

Juan Pierre has a weak arm and therefore I’m out of my mind for suggesting the players on that list??? I agree with you that he is not a better hitter than Giles, but he is hitting in the .290’s and is one of the most dangerous base-stealing threats in the game. That has the added value of making the hitters behind you better.

As for Jason Schmidt… I am of the opinion that he is a good enough pitcher to get beyond any discomfort he feels pitching here. And BTW, often your comfort level as a visiting player can be very different from your comfort level if you play there everyday. There are many guys who perform at an extremely high level in a given park… until that team trades for him. I think the opposite is often true as well.

I think Jason Schmidt’s discomfort at Turner Field would present more of a problem for our ability to sign him (if we were trying to), than it would be a problem in terms of his ability to perform.

As for Javy Lopez, I want him as a back-up catcher and pinch-hitter nothing more.

By KC

September 21, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Again, to respond to some… I know many of the players on my wish list are highly unlikely to sign with the Braves, but that’s why I called it a WISH list.

knowitall:

Juan Pierre has a weak arm and therefore I’m out of my mind for suggesting the players on that list??? I agree with you that he is not a better hitter than Giles, but he is hitting in the .290’s and is one of the most dangerous base-stealing threats in the game. That has the added value of making the hitters behind you better.

As for Jason Schmidt… I am of the opinion that he is a good enough pitcher to get beyond any discomfort he feels pitching here. And BTW, often your comfort level as a visiting player can be very different from your comfort level if you play there everyday. There are many guys who perform at an extremely high level in a given park… until that team trades for him. I think the opposite is often true as well.

I think Jason Schmidt’s discomfort at Turner Field would present more of a problem for our ability to sign him (if we were trying to), than it would be a problem in terms of his ability to perform.

As for Javy Lopez, I want him as a back-up catcher and pinch-hitter nothing more.

By NPD

September 21, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Aahhh…..there’s jumpin jimmy smith once again sucking on his toes, and placing yet another disclaimer on his previous infantile posts. jimmy jimmy jimmy if all the mirrors were taken away would there still be a jimmy?

By NYC#1

September 21, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

KC….Based on your earlier post about the Mets you’re commiting the same mistake many brave fans did when predicting the Mets results this year. you’re underestimating their farms system and skill of Omar Minaya to address the needs that will improve the team for 2007. As I said before, back in March you would have never thought the Mets would have the best record in baseball heading into October…..Did you??

By Lew

September 21, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

NPD-Did you forget who you were posting as? You’re the pseudo intellectual. Stinky talks about sucking toes. Dude, you need to keep your personalities straight or you’ll go crazy. OOps. Too late.

By knowitall

September 21, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

But Jason Schmidt has pitched here as a home player. When we had him, he was really not much different than Sosa or Yates. Guys who had tremendous stuff but just couldn’t seem to put it together. Yes, he did put it together for a couple of years but I think if we were to sign him this offseason all we would be getting is another Tim Hudson as far as what he is going to give you. Everyone is saying trade Hudson but why do so just to get a more expensive version of the same player. I know they are different styles of pitchers but as far as innings, ERA, etc, they would be similar. I just don’t think Schmidt is worth the extra money. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on Pierre. I was a fan of his 2 years ago but he just doesn’t do it for me anymore. I don’t think the Braves would ever go after him because they have traditionally tried to sign guys who were at least adequete defensively to support their pitchers. I mean think about they outfield guys that they have signed in the past. They’ve all been able to contribute defensively. Even Sheffield was a better defensive player than most people would have thought.

I know this is your WISH list. Just offering counter points. I don’t really have a problem with the other guys you suggested by the way.

By geauxbraves2000

September 21, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, I forgot about DL HoRam. Thanks KC for the info, and while those are decent numbers, well, some pitchers are good, but they cannot be counted on, ie Wood, Prior, Ben Sheets, all great pitches but when’s the last time they pitched even only 100 innings in a season?

Don’t get me wrong, I like HoRam, and if he would stay healthy I would agree he could be a great #3 or even a #2, and I would love to see him for many years in a Braves uniform. But he just can’t stay healthy. At this stage he is just not dependable.

Again, just my opinion.

Geaux Braves!!

ps - I am a very good speller, so pardon any mizspeled words in my posts, sometimes my mind works faster than my fingers.

By Robert

September 21, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

“Why is it so hard to see the Braves being dominant again, and soon? “

Answer - Because they still have a donkey manager.

By David O'Brien

September 21, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

KC, your suggestion of Javy Lopez makes no sense. Sorry, just doesn’t. Barely serviceable defensive catcher whose asset was his big bat. Now he has no big bat. He might be the last guy out there you’d want as a backup catcher. The opposite of the job description for most teams. And you can’t talk about catchers as pinch-hit weapons, because Cox and most managers aren’t going to use them to pinch-hit unless it’s an absolute emergency.

THAT SAID, I JUST POSTED A NEW BLOG. MOVE IT ON OVER….

By TennesseePaul

September 21, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

Robert: You’re never going to win me over on that… Cox is one of, if not the best, manager in the history of the game. So good, he actually got JD Drew to perform up to his potential. No other manager has been able to do that.

By geauxbraves2000

September 21, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Ah yes, famous words of George Thorogood, move it on over.

See ya there!

Geaux Braves!!

By Shaun

September 21, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Langerhans is no Andruw Jones but he’s decent. Here are his career numbers: .251 AVG/.342 OBP/ .397 SLG.

And there’s no reason to believe AJ wouldn’t accept a trade. All I was saying is at worst he would be the centerfielder. Or we could move Francouer over.

The point is trading Andruw now would be better than letting him walk. It will be better for the Braves in the long run because I think it’s likely some team out there would give up at least two quality young players for him. And trading him wouldn’t set them back much, if at all.

TennPaul,

I don’t see how the Braves’s pitching/defense is going to jump the 6-8 spots in the runs allowed rankings that it would require to win 95-100 games.

It’s actually not hard for me to see the Braves being dominant again soon…they can simply strenghten the core of Francouer, McCann, James and Davies so that when they are in their peak years the Braves will be in that position. Holding onto AJ until he walks may not hurt the Braves, but trading Jones sure would increase the chances for a/some big season(s) when Francouer, McCann, James and Davies hit their peaks.

Lew and TennPaul, etc.,

Why are you so unwilling to accept that the Braves will likely be better off in the longrun by trading some of their veterans for young players, if they are smart about it? I mean, do you really think the Braves can jump some 15-20 games in the standings? I do believe they can be much better, but I don’t know about that much better next season…I hope so.

I say they do all they can to compete next year, they do things that increase the chances to be a 95-100-win team in a few years, and they don’t do anything that would jeapordize a 95-100-win season in a few years (like signing older players to huge, multi-year contracts or trading away young players for older, more expensive players).

I can guarantee you that trading AJones, Giles and Hudson will not hurt the Braves, if Schuerholz is smart about it, and will in fact help the Braves in the long run.

Judging by your posts, it seems like you think I’m wanting a Marlins-style firesale. That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m just saying there are certain vets that are soon to past their prime, are not going to get any better, and probably have a lot of value on the trade market. The Braves should trade what they can while they have that opportunity. Obviously they aren’t going to be able to trade Chipper or Smoltz, but maybe Andruw, maybe Giles and maybe Hudson.

By Shaun

September 21, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Langerhans is no Andruw Jones but he’s decent. Here are his career numbers: .251 AVG/.342 OBP/ .397 SLG.

And there’s no reason to believe AJ wouldn’t accept a trade. All I was saying is at worst he would be the centerfielder. Or we could move Francouer over.

The point is trading Andruw now would be better than letting him walk. It will be better for the Braves in the long run because I think it’s likely some team out there would give up at least two quality young players for him. And trading him wouldn’t set them back much, if at all.

TennPaul,

I don’t see how the Braves’s pitching/defense is going to jump the 6-8 spots in the runs allowed rankings that it would require to win 95-100 games.

It’s actually not hard for me to see the Braves being dominant again soon…they can simply strenghten the core of Francouer, McCann, James and Davies so that when they are in their peak years the Braves will be in that position. Holding onto AJ until he walks may not hurt the Braves, but trading Jones sure would increase the chances for a/some big season(s) when Francouer, McCann, James and Davies hit their peaks.

Lew and TennPaul, etc.,

Why are you so unwilling to accept that the Braves will likely be better off in the longrun by trading some of their veterans for young players, if they are smart about it? I mean, do you really think the Braves can jump some 15-20 games in the standings? I do believe they can be much better, but I don’t know about that much better next season…I hope so.

I say they do all they can to compete next year, they do things that increase the chances to be a 95-100-win team in a few years, and they don’t do anything that would jeapordize a 95-100-win season in a few years (like signing older players to huge, multi-year contracts or trading away young players for older, more expensive players).

I can guarantee you that trading AJones, Giles and Hudson will not hurt the Braves, if Schuerholz is smart about it, and will in fact help the Braves in the long run.

Judging by your posts, it seems like you think I’m wanting a Marlins-style firesale. That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m just saying there are certain vets that are soon to past their prime, are not going to get any better, and probably have a lot of value on the trade market. The Braves should trade what they can while they have that opportunity. Obviously they aren’t going to be able to trade Chipper or Smoltz, but maybe Andruw, maybe Giles and maybe Hudson.

By KC

September 21, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

DOB:

You’re probably right. I just want a decent offensive catcher for our backup. You are correct that BC hardly ever uses the backup catcher to pinch hit. I failed to mention that if they got someone like Javy, I would like to see them carry a 3rd catcher, which would allow them to use Javy’s bat off the bench.

Javy has not been all that good since leaving Atlanta, but he did a good enough job defensively when he was here, and he can still hit… certainly for a guy coming off the bench.

I guess there’s part of me that would like to think he could recapture a little of his former glory with a return to Atlanta. It may not be rational, but hey… none of us are always rational, right? :o)

By Head Coach

September 21, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

I see that some of you guys are thinking off the top of your head again , whicn is fine but not realistic. Trading quality starting pitching is always a bad idea and the Braves John Schuerholz is not in the habit of doing just that. I did some rough number crunching , the Braves already have somewhere in the neighborhood of 74 to 76 million in contracts for next season and thats with an 80 million budget. somebody is going bye bye and its probably Giles with his 3.85 million contract. The Braves as you already know have a glut of young infielders making the major league minimum in Aybar , Tony Pena , Prado and Orr. JS will probably go the trade rout in acquiring a solid leadoff hitter with some speed. Ward makes Thorman expendable , ditto for Langerhans now that Diaz has proven he belongs. Trade Andruw ? And just who is going to replace his 30-35 homeruns 100 plus RBI and gold glove ? Not to mention he is a 10 and 5 guy and doesnt want to be traded. I would set my sights on Carl Crawford , trade Salty and Thorman for him and hope I didnt give up to much. Baez would be offered an incentive contract in the 1 to 1.5 million range and if he gets more from another organization he can take a walk. Ditto for Thomson. Corey Patterson might be another option in left field and as a leadoff hitter. He is an enormous talent but has never lived up to his potential till this season. Of course , I want Gregor Blanco to win the job in spring training and make any trades or free agent signings unnecessary and the Braves can hang onto Giles. It would be so cool if Hampton , James and Ramirez were all in the rotation. Three leftys , can you imagine the nastiness and havoc ? Nobody has three leftys in a five man rotation.

By Sammy Kershaw

September 21, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Knockahoma regarding what you said at the beggining of the blog. John Smoltz is not the greatest Brave of all time. Top 5 but not best

Dale Murphy Biatch!!!!

By Sammy Kershaw

September 21, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Knockahoma regarding what you said at the beggining of the blog. John Smoltz is not the greatest Brave of all time. Top 5 but not best

Dale Murphy Biatch!!!!

By BB FAN

September 21, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Having a dominant team means everything goes perfectly and that takes luck. That is the definition of a dominant team.

The White Sox are a perfect example. Last year, they had luck and everything went perfect. The pitching was dominant and they got timely hitting, ect. They won the WS. This year, the White Sox are on the verge of missing the playoffs. It’s because their luck ran out and and things are not perfect. But on paper, they looked like repeat champions.

Which brings me to my next point. That is why it is very difficult to stay on top in MLB. Winning a World Series takes talent, luck, and a perfect chemistry.

The Braves have had the talent for 15 years. They probably have had the chemistry for at least 4-6 of those years. But they were only lucky in 1995. Winning a WS takes luck. I don’t care what anybody says, that is the truth. There’s the Lonnie Smith play in ‘91, and the Mark Wohlers slider to Lehritz in ‘96. Those were unlucky plays. I’m sure there are a few more as well.

By BB FAN

September 21, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Having a dominant team means everything goes perfectly and that takes luck. That is the definition of a dominant team.

The White Sox are a perfect example. Last year, they had luck and everything went perfect. The pitching was dominant and they got timely hitting, ect. They won the WS. This year, the White Sox are on the verge of missing the playoffs. It’s because their luck ran out and and things are not perfect. But on paper, they looked like repeat champions.

Which brings me to my next point. That is why it is very difficult to stay on top in MLB. Winning a World Series takes talent, luck, and a perfect chemistry.

The Braves have had the talent for 15 years. They probably have had the chemistry for at least 4-6 of those years. But they were only lucky in 1995. Winning a WS takes luck. I don’t care what anybody says, that is the truth. There’s the Lonnie Smith play in ‘91, and the Mark Wohlers slider to Lehritz in ‘96. Those were unlucky plays. I’m sure there are a few more as well.

Robert(Justice Is The Best),

Just so you know, Kelvim Escobar has been in the league for 10 years and is older than Andruw Jones. He’s a good pitcher, but I’m not sure I would take that trade.

I really do not think the Braves need to trade Andruw Jones. Hopefully he takes a discount. I think Chipper taking 11 million will help Andruw realize that the extra 4-6 million is not worth losing happiness and comfort. Worst case, they lose him in free agency, and they gain $15 million to sign a few free agents.