Braves

By Mike

September 13, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

There are some Atlanta bases golf centers overwhelmed with request for tee times for the first week of October. It seems everyone in the Atlanta Braves organizarion don’t know what do in October no that braves missed the play off. so while they think about it they will play golf

By Rodger

September 13, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Yeh, have to grugingly give Roachie props. Prior to last year, I thought he would produce. Even gave him benefit of the doubt in playoff goof-after all, he IS slow. But after his bonehead lazy play at first, I was ready to crucify him Good for him that he hung in and is having an excellent season. Hope Booby remembers that in the future when he wants to platoon.

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Props LaRoche. You earned. Now you have to keep earning them. Don’t you go dyin’ on me. I’d love to see this level of production over a full season. He’d have over 40 homers and a .350 average… Historical in terms of the Atlanta Braves. But he must do it first.

To a double header sweep! Actually, are they already playing? I can’t see anything from here.

GO BRAVES

By Kenny

September 13, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

If LaRoche and his crazy bunting, non-hustling, and overall lack of baseball sense—don’t forget that grounder in the blown Wickman save—are the highlight of this year, then no wonder the Braves stink. He’s a decent player with some pop in his bat but he is not a winner and not someone to build a franchise around. The Braves are headed for years of mediocrity.

By geauxbraves2000

September 13, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

Wow, a starting 8 with a comb avg of .264, Wolf should be shaking in his boots.

Nonetheless, Geaux Braves!! Come on lineup, prove me wrong.

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

per Stinky’s last post I talk to ‘someone’ regularly. Now I’m talking to you. Whether you are in the middle of the ‘sja vs journalist Jimmy tiff’ is of no concern to me. I’m simply trying to ‘get’ your motive here. I believe that some people upon realization that they cannot get the attention they crave by being the best dog in town, then they will get it by being the worst. It’s much easier to be the bad boy than to get acclamation by achieving something worthwhile. What say you?

By worst dog in town

September 13, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Well put Ricky Bobby, i mean Richard Cory.

By Lew

September 13, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

Kenny-Where did you hear that the Braves were building their team around LaRoche? I kind of thought they were building it around Francoeur, McCann and James. How in the world can you base not only someone’s season, but someone’s career on three misplays? So what if the guy has a condition and is taking medication? Believe me, there’s plenty of people right here on this blog that need more serious medication than Roachy. I think that overall he’s put up great numbers both offensively and defensively. The guy’s making $400,000 this year. Just how bad a deal do the Braves have with him in the lineup?

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

Stinky— there you go again!!! Why not answer my question, instead of sitting in the middle of the aisle crying and screaming?? Me thinks most of the blog denizens know.

By Rodger

September 13, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

RC-welcome to our nightmare…

By Carlos Amato

September 13, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe this! Francoeur got the walk after being up 0-2? It’s the end of the world as we know it…

By Carlos Amato

September 13, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

My god, it’a really a strange day. Kyle Davies homers.

By Calvin

September 13, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Holy crap!

Davies homers..wow.

By The Grinch

September 13, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

Shaun Payne, is there a way to prove Davies is a better hitter than Howard now usig a newfangled number system? Or would he actually have scored more runs if he had walked? :-)

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By Carson

September 13, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

I find it a little odd that this johnny-come-lately Richard Cory is so familiar with what has been going on with the blogs and the people who are trying to destroy them. Richard Cory’s style sounds way too familiar, maybe he is the guy causing all this trouble? If this isn’t the troublemaker, then it sure looks like he’s here trying to start his own streak.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By TheSouthernJackAss

September 13, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

LaRoche is a very good first baseman, with sufficient offensive skills, no changes needed at first in ‘07—Braves will need good defensive players if they want to return to being a team based on great pitching. Changes are needed elsewhere tho.

By The Grinch

September 13, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

Cutty, if you’re as repetitive with your coaching methods as you are with the “Post” button, I bet you’re real fun to play for.

By beachcomber

September 13, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

Wow - add three more to Andruw’s RBI or RS (Runs Saved) column. That guy is worth easily 50 to 75 runs a year he saves us. Davies is scary since returning from his injury. Let’s hope Oscar can qwell the riot.

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

cutty, we get the point. NO need to post it 15 times.

So what is the score in the game?

Francoeur came back from down 0-2!?!?! So happy now. that’s at least twice in about two weeks that he’s done that. Very impressed. I’m glad to see that the 0-2 count on him isn’t a sure fire out any more.

GO BRAVES

By Lew

September 13, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

Eleven copies of the same post-Gee, you think it was an accident? Who says Andruw is no longer the best? Maybe not as good as Otis Nixon’s catch, but it works for me. At least BC got Davies out of there while he still had the lead. I have a feeling the bullpen will get lots of work today.

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

Carson-ok I’ll play along. I’ve been an observer of this blog for a while. I witnessed stinky’s hassle of Grinch, and have seen stinky hassle journalist Jimmy and post many times using phony monickers such as Carson. We hear you Stinky. You got our attention, now aren’t you fulfilled??

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

I’m dyin over here… What’s the update on the game?
Stinkin’ work web-sense. Ruins a perfectly good day of baseball.

By Carson

September 13, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

Well said Richard Cory!

By MEB

September 13, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

cutty… I think you have set a new multi-post record (9)!

By Lew

September 13, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-Braves are up 5-3 in the bottom half of the 3rd.

By Shaun Payne

September 13, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

The Grinch,

I know you were joking but you don’t find ways to prove things with numbers. You ask questions and the numbers along with common sense are the best way to get the answer.

By Shaun Payne

September 13, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

People that misuse statistics are the ones that use the numbers to prove their points. Intelligent people are the ones that use statistics and common sense to arrive at an answer. I think that’s what Lew(?) was getting at yesterday when he said his wife told him you can’t get in an argument with a statistician because they’ll always come up with a stat to prove your point.

By Lew

September 13, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

ShaunP-I may not agree with the depth of your love of statistics, Dude, but at least you are an intelligent person who goes to great pains(no pun intended) to back up your theories. Wish we could say the same for some others here, though.

By Lew

September 13, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

ShaunP-Now, that being said. We had been discussing whether or not Howard’s season had been historic. Here’s a stat that Torborg threw out before the game which may put Howard’s career in an historic perspective. He has more HR for his first 1,000 AB than ANY player in baseball history. This may not mean much, but he only has 870 AB. That, to me, is historic.

By Thomas

September 13, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

What happened to Davies.

By Shaun Payne

September 13, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

Lew,

I don’t love statistics. I just love the truth and statistics combined with common sense are the best ways to discover the truth about baseball player performance.

I trust finding the answers myself through statistics and common sense or through listening to/reading someone who uses statistics and common sense rather than relying on Don Sutton or Joe Morgan or whoever to give me insight into the game. Not that their insight is not useful, but I trust evidence more.

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

Thanks Lew.

By Lew

September 13, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

Villarreal is looking good again. I think we may end up being happy with the trade for he and Cormier. Two more cases of surgery taking a year and a half to recover from. Maybe that looks good for Hampton’s case, too. If Hampton comes back strong, I’ll feel a lot better for next year’s chances.

By cutty

September 13, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By Thomas

September 13, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

Is Davies injured or what?

By cutty

September 13, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

Am a high school coach in N.C.who has read but never responded to ajc-grew up in Cobb, played in college,dad in pro ball. All that to say this- LaRoche leaves much to be desired as a first baseman.Lack of hustle and speed well documented, often out of position as cutoff man,stretches out for throw from fielders before the throw is made contributes to many errors.The last thing the Braves need is another “laid back” starter to reinforce what Andrew and Chipper present. He,like most Braves,strikes out way too often-get rid of Terry P. and find some guys with a little speed who at least look like they enjoy the wonderful game they play and hustle.

By Lew

September 13, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this

Thomas-Davies pitched great for two innings-even hit a HR. He started getting his butt kicked in the third, giving up 3 runs. It could have been much worse, though, Andruw went over the wall to rob Howard of a grand slam. BC took Davies out while he still had the lead. I don’t think he was hurt.

By Shaun Payne

September 13, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this

Lew,

I know I’m going to get killed for this, but at the risk of everyone thinking I’m out to get Howard, here goes:

Certainly Howard looks like one of the best hitters in the game and I don’t want to take anything away from what he’s doing at all: he should be the MVP. He came to the big leagues during his peak years—his late 20’s—so you would reasonable expect him to be an above average rookie or sophomore. He probably wouldn’t have put up such impressive numbers in his first couple of years had he came up at the age of 22 or 23. That said, it’s still rare for someone to put up these kindof numbers. Also, his homeruns are very impressive, I’m not denying that, but when you put his homeruns in historical perspective you must keep in mind (say it with me) context. He’s still playing in a higher-homer era than maybe some other rookies did when they hit less homers.

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this

cutty you may have never posted before, but you don’t have to make up for 6 years worth in one evening. That’s all esteemed journalist has for now. pie anyone?

By Shaun Payne

September 13, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

Oh, and by the way, for the record if I’m a Phillies fan I don’t care so much about the historical perspective of Ryan Howard’s season. I just care that he’s the best hitter in the league and he’s helping us win games…I’m not going to boo him.

The only reason I care about the historical perspective of Howard’s season is as a baseball history buff.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 13, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

sicko alert. sda can’t keep up with his identities. that was a two-shoestring gaffe and probably resulted in another soiling. this journalist doesn’t want to let the sda win (a lot of bloggers are leaving) but this journalist doesn’t want to blog with the sda either. oh, well … the bullpen will be wasted before the night is over. oh, the humnaity! pratt has been hit in the toe!

By Thomas

September 13, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

thanks Lew.

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

Payne: Quick question, this high homer era, does it over lap the roid era?
In context of that framework, hitting 60 is still incredible, but not too uncommon. However, if the context is, post-roid era, drug free (so they claim) baseball, no cloud of suspecion looming over the player or sport, then what Howard is doing is very impressive. And under that context it hasn’t been accomplished since Marris and Ruth.

But props Payne. Initially you weren’t convinced of the MVP caliber season. But that has since come about.

By Lew

September 13, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this

ShaunP-I know what you mean about him coming up at a later age. It probably did make adifference. As far as the historical perspective, considering that the all time leader in HR in the first 1,00 AB is Cecil Fielder…..Anyway, the kid deserves the MVP and will probably win it, too. I’m just happy he’s on my fantasy team. Thomas and Ten Paul-you’re welcome.

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

There are a lot of factors that help Howard. He’s genetic make up, skill, length of time developing, and desire to break out with a vengence. But coming up at the age of 26 helps all the other teams in his division more than it does him. I say this because, we only have to work around him for 10 years instead of 20. HA!

But seriously, the shallow depth of pitching from the expansion of the leagues also helped. The fact that he is coming up after the roid era when all the roid pitchers are coming back with less power and more meat also helps.

Payne: I don’t know if there is a stat somewhere, but if you could dig it up I’d appreciate it. I’m looking for the average speed of fastballs (sliders, cutters, the whole shabang) on a division, league, season level. I just recall more hard throwers a while back than there are now. There seems to be more guys in the 90-94 range that throw right down the middle. But maybe I just can’t get this seasons Braves pitching staff out of my mind.

What’s the score now?

By Tyler

September 13, 2006 06:56 PM | Link to this

I can’t help but cringe every time my eyes fall upon the most pitfully conceived ad campaign in recent memory…the M.C. Hammer/Atlanta Brave song medley.

Don’t you think the Braves are getting laughed at enough this year during the game? Do they really need to be humiliated between innings as well? I’m sure the man behind these ads feel he has really added some sort of cool factor to the game, but he is horribly mistaken. I can see him now- a middle aged ad executive wearing parachute pants sitting behind his desk with a chubby…but please stop the suffing for the sake of us all. (and no…vanilla ice wouldn’t have been a better choice!)

By Lew

September 13, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-5-4 in the top of the 8th with one out and a runner on first. OK, two outs. Just read on the Braves’ website that Smoltz is p** about Guy Curtright’s blog yesterday claiming he was old. “As The Braves Turn”- new idea for a soap.

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Tyler: It’s not as bad as the NLF Replay commercial. That thing is just horrid. I can’t believe anyone in the NFL would agree to lipsincing for that commercial… shudder.

By Lew

September 13, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

6-5 Phillies heading into the bottom of the 8th. Two run error for Diaz on a routine fly ball. That’s why he doesn’t get to play full time. We had a 5-0 lead in the second.

By Calvin

September 13, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

Hey look, the bullpen blows another lead…stop me if you have heard that before.

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this

Attention all 6:29 post was not me. You can know I will not criticize anyone on this blog. EVER!! I will however seek to understand the motives of Stinky.

By Lew

September 13, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this

This wasn’t completely the bullpen-Diaz dropped the third out and two unearned runs scored. The Braves have not had a hit since the second inning.

By TheSouthernJackAss

September 13, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

So John Smoltz says he is pi$sed off by Curtright’s comment about age creeping up on him—oh well, just give ol’ Smoltz a couple days and he will be back in the news recanting and saying he really didn’t mean what he said about being upset, and that his every word was just taken out of “context”—company man all the way!

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

However, the 6:29 post is mine.

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this

Stinky—now cut that out.

By Shaun Payne

September 13, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

First of all, I think anyone who believes the game is clean is naive. There will always be steroids as long as there is something out there no one can detect. No one can detect HGH, even in blood.

Still, this is a high-homer era and I think it’s because of more than just steroids, although they may help. Since 1998, homers have remained pretty consistent and at record levels. I’ve actually heard that it aluminum bats in high school and college could contribute to high homer totals. Hitters can crowd the plate and hit homers the other way with aluminum and then they discovered you could do the same thing with wood.

Anyway, I think we should assume Ryan Howard is clean because we have no reason to suspect him. But because homers are as common as ever before, 60 homers now is not the same as 60 homers in Babe Ruth’s day.

Also, as I said yesterday, homeruns aren’t everything. They are the best offensive weapon, but someone who hits 5 homers in 10 plate appearances and makes 5 outs in the other ones isn’t creating as many runs as someone who hits 5 doubles, 2 homers and walks twice in 10 plate appearances. I know that’s an extreme example, but you get the idea. You can make up for hitting homeruns by doing other things well. Sure if someone hits a lot of homeruns, other players have to do other things extremely well to make up for that production, but it can happen.

That’s my argument against a historic season by Howard. Other players have done other things better and have essentially made up for the homerun difference (they didn’t actually do anything, but you know what I mean). Also other players played in eras where getting on base, getting a double, getting a homer, was harder than it is in 2006. You have to consider that fact, too.

Oh, one thing about “historical perspective” and comparing players from different eras:

It’s pretty obvious that human beings have gotten stronger, have learned how to filter out baseball talent better and have learned how to play the game better. So you can make a very valid argument that whoever the best player is in the most recent major league season is actually the best baseball player of all-time. When I say historical, what I mean basically is the hitters that contributed the most runs to their teams’ total runs scored.

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this

You know Stinky, it’s really ok, cause if you’re spending time hassling me, then you’re not hassling someone else—and it doesn’t bother me in the least. I really believe you to be quite clever. You have a sense of humor, and your IQ is probably above average.[sorry folks, but this is no dummy]. I think your problems are not intellectual,but rather emotional. There seems to be an inferiority complex or possibly insecurity issues. This is most common in children pitching a crying fit.

By Calvin

September 13, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

Aye Lew, I didn’t notice that Diaz dropped the ball, literately. Just a microcosm of the whole season really. 5-0 lead, lose 6-5.

By Matt Yoder

September 13, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this

I’m Depressed!@!!!!! ;-(

By Stinky

September 13, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this

My mommy didn’t hug me enough. :(

By Shaun Payne

September 13, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

But seriously, the shallow depth of pitching from the expansion of the leagues also helped. The fact that he is coming up after the roid era when all the roid pitchers are coming back with less power and more meat also helps.

Expansion does have a temporary effect on talent (both hitters and pitchers), but it doesn’t stay that way. The outliers perform much higher and lower above or below the mean, but the mean doesn’t change during expansion.

Everything I’ve seen about expansion suggests that things normalize quickly. The last expansion was ‘98, so things should be pretty normal now. There is enough talent, it’s just a matter of it being distributed somewhat evenly. Expansion screws up the distribution of talent, but things eventually go back to “normal.”

And I don’t buy the ‘roid theory. Like I said, HGH is still non-detectable in every way. I would guess the percentage of pitchers using steroids hasn’t changed much. Maybe a little, but probably not enough to significantly increase a homerun total.

By unclepeepot

September 13, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

Southern Jackass why you keep running from uncle peepot,you have p** off my nephew,Adam the Gayblade and my cousins the 2 homo boys,why you keep picking on them,they are good guys who may be different from everyone but they are good guys,i am 89 yrs old and if you keep picking on them i am gonna come to America and kick your a$$.Also SJA just want you to know that Journalist jhimmy Smith is the best journalist of all time,stop picking on him too.uncle pee pot ha spoken and my advice to you Southern jackass is to respect your elders,i am one mean dude.

By TheSouthernJackAss

September 13, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

Unbelievable!!!…

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

It’s ok now- we all noticed you.

By MetsFan

September 13, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this

How pathetic are these Braves? A 5-run lead and they can’t even win a game. Why don’t they just forfeit all the rest? Wow…this kind of stink is going to last all the way through 2007.

By JJMB

September 13, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

My god, Francoeur is screwing up! Whitney Houston has just become available!

Seriously, he is screwing up bigtime.

By Carson

September 13, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

Cory/journalist jimmy/stinky/unclepeepot/letwan/ is in the house—everyone please acknowledge the esteemed jimmy smith/cory—he craves attention-we see you cory-now go away before you have a nervous breakdow-everyone knows you’re the best thing since sliced bread.

By Beachcomber

September 13, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

I said this in a blog a week ago but it bears repeating,a team that is strong offensively at every position like the Braves should look at least one position where they are very weak defensively and trade some offense for defense at that position. It would seem that Langerhans’ rather weak bat (not enough ABs?) and superior glove might more than balance Diaz’ murderous job in left field. Diaz might bring some help from the AL in the off season.

By JJMB

September 13, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

Give me a break about Diaz. He got turned around on that one. Sure, it cost them the game, but the damn season is over anyway. I’ve seen him make very good plays in LF. I’ve also seen AJ drop a few.

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this

Not very good Carson-Stinky. I’ve come to expect better efforts from you. Maybe if you hold your breath—nah, cause then you can’t cry and scream.

By Green Jacket

September 13, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

Shaun Payne, You said you were a Phillies fan. You won’t need an understanding of econometrics to see the value of the pitching of the Lakewood Blue Claws of South Atlantic League (low A). They took the first two games on the road in a best of five championship series , giving up 2 runs in 22 innings. The team they beat, the GreenJackets (Giants affilliate), was 92-47 in the regular season and had swept the Rome Braves in the first round. The Phillies will have to have at least a couple of guys from this squad in the bigs in a couple or three years.

By Lew

September 13, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

Yeah-Whitney is divorcing Bobby Brown. I guess he quit dealing.

By Todd A

September 13, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

That should make Bin Laden happy.

By Carson

September 13, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

Hey Richard Cory, or “Dick”, can I call you “Dick”?, Why don’t you scurry on down to McDonalds and apply for a job? Maybe John Rocker can get you on there?

By Lew

September 13, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this

Well, The Twins Liriano got shut down for the rest of the year. He had been out with a strained ligament and heard something pop in his first start in a month. Now you know why everyone is looking for good young pitching. It’s hard to keep them healthy even when you’re lucky enough to find them.

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

Very clever Carson-Stinky—you sure got me. Yeah, you ruined my day, by insulting me on a blog. I’m so upset, I don’t know just what I will do. Course MS. Gump said-“sticks and stones” oh well you know the rest. Yeah, you can call me Dick, or whatever you like cause as you know I can’t stop you. On the other hand, what you call me is of no importance either. You are not really relevant. Isn’t it neat—being able to hide here in cyber space??

By SAL

September 13, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

Anybody else see the similarities between Kyle Davies and Jorge Sosa? Both have ridiculously huge ERAs and are fortunate to reach the 100 pitch count in a game (of course when this rare feat happens, it is in the 4th or 5th inning). Both also hit HRs for Braves this year. The only difference is Davies is younger.

Good to see Hudson get rocked again tonight. He has been a total bust as a Brave. I hope he is wearing another uniform next spring.

By Bob

September 13, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this

1.Chipper Jones’ Injury is not as bad as he is making it out to be he just doesn’t want to play for a team that won’t make the playoffs.

1. John Smoltz is always saying how the young guys need to pay attention to veterans so they can learn from their mistakes. Meanwhile Smoltz has gotten killed in his past three games.

By dadgum

September 13, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this

Look guys, forget bashing Diaz because he made an error. Forget saying we need defense in LF. Diaz plays adequate defense in LF. No way I give up offense for defense in any outfield position. Besides the outfield is steady for the Braves. Look we blow a 5 run lead it ain’t due to Diaz making an error. It was sorry pitching as well. Total team loss. Oh, we are also losing big in game 2. Gee wonder why.

If Smoltz was p** at Guy’s article that doesn’t surprise me. All these players have egos like you and I. Man, crticism hurts even if it is the truth. The Braves are 100% done for this year. If I was BC I would sit Smoltz. He can prove nothing and the extra time will let him get a head start on the off season. Ditto McCann. I like Smoltz and think he is a great pitcher but the smart move is to give him more rest. He won’t like it nor should he.

By dadgum

September 13, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

The Braves have been trying to shop Hudson but with that contract who will take him. That is the problem. They better trade Andruw before he is untradeable. He of the .258 average and 13 mil payroll soon to be more. Giles will make more in arbitration etc. so I know the Braves will unload him.

Everyone can talk about tweaking but I see major overhauls baby. The Braves teh last few years have been outpitched when they made the playoffs. Even with what they have coming back next year they project to be outpitched again. We need starters and of course Wick signed. It is going to take major personnel moves. Just get ready and hold on. The more the Braves lose to finish the season the worse it will taste.

By The Grinch

September 13, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

Hey, Y’all…check out the headline on the sports page. Tech has invented the solar-powered outhouse! NOW I’m finally able to grasp what those higher SAT requirements are all about. Didn’t the old timers use to call that “Leaving the door open?”

By Richard Cory

September 13, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

Well Stinky— guess I’ll leave the blog for this evening.[my evening shift at McDonald’s starts soon]. Have fun crying and screaming here in your blogworld.BYE-bye

By The Grinch

September 13, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

I just went over to the Tech blog to mention the outhouse, and they’ve got a stinky/SDA of their own, only apparently worse. I wonder if it’s the same guy, and he hangs out on the Thrashers blog, Hawks, etc. It would be like at the end of “Predator” when Ah-nuld finally kills the Predator and finds out it was one of a whole race. D’OH!

By Carson

September 13, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

Give it about 15 minutes then notice who shows up now that “Richard Cory” is gone.

By Lew

September 13, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

Grinch-He was on the Bradley Blog earlier, too. Don’t you wish you had that much time on your hands? Bob-Chipper may be getting older and more prone to injury, but your statement is one of the stupidest I’ve seen in a long time. Are you for real?

By Rip

September 13, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this

Adam LaRoche should win his 1st “GOLD GLOVE” this year. He has saved alot of players from getting errors and made some great plays. No one was better on defense at 1st base in NL. (CUTTY GO HOME TO COACH HARVEY COCHRAN)

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

Payne: Who ever said Homeruns are everything?
Things sure don’t appear normal now. First of all, the Braves should be on top of the division. Secondly, they should be on top of the majors in ERA. And thirdly, the fielding is supposed to be better. What are they doing out there? Sometimes it’s just baffling. I come home, read the results and it’s the most ridiculous outcomes I could dream of. They gotta get back to .500.

I’ll join the drum beat of those calling for a Hudson trade this offseason. Even if they get nothing back, just get him out of here. I think Davies needs more time in the minors. James is ready, Smoltz will be good next year when he’s fully recovered from the aches and pains. (He’ll probably be lights out in his next start, but the rest couldn’t hurt.) With those two and Hampton you can start looking for options in trades or free agency. This offseason will probably be pretty busy. It’s going to be interesting. In the mean time…

GO BRAVES

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 13, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

Well, I will warn you now this will be a little long. But, this is what I think must happen this offseason for the Braves to contend next season.

The starting rotation as it stands now can or will include: Hudson, Hampton, Smoltz, Davies, Ramirez, Cormier, and James. I think that two of these guys should be traded. Hudson definitely has to go. Trade him to Boston for some prospects, or Lester, or Wily Mo Pena, or even Matt Clement. The guy has to go. He just can’t get it done here and I think like Renteria is a NL player Hudson may be a AL pitcher. I think Horacio should be the other guy to go. He is too injury prone and he has the chance to establish himself and just hasn’t done it.

Next, the following guys have to be on the trade block: Giles, Renteria, Thorman, Salty/B. Pena, Langerhans, and T. Pena. All of these guys can bring some quality value in return. In particular Giles, Renteria, and Salty/B. Pena. This offense needs a true leadoff hitter and 2B and LF/CF are the positions that player must play. I think Diaz will probably not be resigned. He showed tonight that while his offense is good he is huge liability defensively.

The bullpen has to be restructured. Paronto, Wickman, McBride, Yates, and Villereal should have spots next year. That leaves two spots to fill, which could be filled through the trading some of the players above. Cormier or Davies could even take a spot. I believe that another starter should be sought. Perhaps Ted Lilly through free agency or someone else through trade.

Lastly, Andruw should be traded. Folks, please listen to logic. One of two things will happen next year. Andruw will have a typical “walk” year and tear the cover off the ball driving up his price where the Braves would have no chance of signing him. That hometown discount crap isn’t going to happen. The other thing that could happen is that Andruw has a good year but not great thus making him affordable for the Braves but he will wind up staying hurt because of all the wear and tear and then the Braves will be stuck with a unmovable contract and a guy who is injury proned. Much like everyone says Chipper is now. I say trade Andruw, preferably to an AL team. That way Andruw could play the field but also DH some and that would save on the wear and tear on his body. Plenty of teams would be interested. Now, a couple of NL teams could be options. The Astros and Dodgers I think would be interested. It was reported the Astros are the team the claimed Andruw off waivers. Trading Andruw to the Astros for Willy Tavares and Brandon Backe or Wandy Rodriguez sounds good to me. Maybe even throw in Russ Springer or one of their other relievers. Trading Hudson to the Astros would be an option as well since the Astros will be looking to replace the Rocket, whom I doubt will come back next season. As for the AL teams I think would be interested the list includes: Toronto, Anaheim, Boston, Baltimore, Texas, and Seattle.

Look, I love Andruw and don’t want him gone but this is what is best for the team. Believing Andruw will give another hometown discount is naive at best. Letting him go without getting anything in return would be just stupid. And that is exactly what will happen if he doesn’t get traded. Not to mention if he were traded lets say to Toronto for Wells the Braves would be getting equal value and honestly Wells is a little bit better player. Even if Andruw was traded for prospects, it would free up money to go after a free agent like Soriano, Carlos Lee, or Matt Holiday.

This team needs an overhaul and its needs have to be addressed. Relief pitching, solid starting pitching, and speed is needed and currently not here now. Look at the teams that are in the playoff hunt. They all have that.

Giles, Andruw, Renteria, and Hudson should be centerpieces in any deal with Thorman, T. Pena, Salty/B.Pena, Langerhans, and Horacio as dressing. These deals will be painful but they must be done to make this team better not only next season but in the future. This team has a solid young base with McCann, Francoeur, James, LaRoche, and Prado. They can build around those guys and add that one huge guy (Soriano, Wells, Holiday, or Lee)that would bring it all together.

Get Chipper on a exercise program that will make him more durable next season and get the pitchers on the same program. Get Francoeur in a batting cage and make him understand that taking walks isn’t such a bad thing and that swinging at anything and everything is.

Someone earlier suggested that the coaching staff is old and should be shaken up to relate more to the younger guys. I totally agree. Cox has to stop surrounding himself with the introductory class of the AARP. Get some younger guys in there who will not coddle these boys but get in their arses!

No one can tell me that these moves can’t be made. Really. Do you think that Andruw Jones is going to turn down huge money from the Red Sox, Orioles, or Blue Jays to take what in essence will be pocket change from the Braves. Not to mention the possiblity of playing less in the field thus easing the stress on his knees and still getting to hit isn’t going to be attractive to him. Please. The man has already established himself as one of the best, if not the best, centerfielders to ever play the game. Why is he going to continue crashing into walls? C’mon.

I’ll be honest about Smoltz. I’m not opposed to a sign and trade with Smoltz. Exercise the option and then move him. What do you think the Yankees or Red Sox would give to get him at $8 mil a year? Baseball is a sport but its also a buisness and good buisness people look at the bottom line. The bottom line in sports is winning. If the Packers had a set, they would trade Favre now. Is it the popular thing? No. Is it the thing that will make them better? Yes. Yes, these guys are the faces of the franchise but every franchise goes through changes and the Braves are at that crossroads. They have new faces. Its now time to give them the tools to win.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 13, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

Shaun, dude do get some kind of residuals for that book “Baseball by The Numbers” or whatever its called. You have been pushing that book all summer. And you are straight up wrong about about RBI not being an important stat. Runs scored is a very important number but guess what, genius, you can’t score a run unless someone knocks you in. They go hand in hand.

By Proper Perspective

September 14, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this

“I’d much rather take a Wild Card and win the World Series than win a division and not win the World Series.”

You might think it was a Marlin who said this, Braves fans, but no — it was Atlanta’s own Brian McCann. He seems to have a much better perspective on how meaningless division titles are than most of his fans.

The 1995 title is the only one that means squat, because a world title followed.

When the Yankees join you in five years as winners of 14 straight, ask their players how much the titles in years they didn’t win it all mean to them. They’re winners who don’t have to fall back on meaningless division titles for their solace. They have enough rings to know different.

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 12:06 AM | Link to this

RJIB: Epic post. It was extrodinarily long.
I agree on some of it, but I would like to point out that Roger McDowell and Terry Pendelton aren’t that old. But I could still stand to see Terry move into a majors spot somewhere else. Maybe he’ll be the Nats manager, or the Marlins. Who knows, but a new hitting coach would be great.

I think, in addition to your list of Offensive qualities needed I’d add discipline. Chipper is pretty disciplined as a hitter. He never Ks more than 100 times in a year, draws a lot of walks. McCann’s a good one as well. We get a few more disciplined hitters on this team, then we’d have something. We already have 3 guys with 100+ Ks and we could in the season with 5 or 6.

I do have a question, How much do you think Andruw will command per season, per year? Min and Max, assuming great walk year or horrid walk year.

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 12:09 AM | Link to this

manager’s not majors.

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this

end not in.
This is ridiculous, I was waay off.

By berigan

September 14, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this

Robert(Justice is the Best)Brandon Backe had Tommy John surgery on the 8th, so we are better off with Ramirez. I do agree with most of what you say though. Even with a real closer from April on while we might have gotten in via the W.C., we all know we wouldn’t beat the Mets with this starting pitching(Not that their starters are great, but come on, Tim Hudson in the first or 2nd game of a 5 game series?) And making Andruw play on a bad knee for the past few weeks was stupid for oh so many reasons. Now his numbers will be down, and it might make it harder to trade him. We have plenty of outfielders, lets try to get some HARD throwing young pitchers!!! If the Angels can bare to part with any of their 146 blue chip prospects, that might just be a trade that would make sense for both teams. The Angels would be the team to beat next year.

By berigan

September 14, 2006 12:41 AM | Link to this

I meant to say the Angels would be the team to beat in the A.L. West next year, not for all of baseball. In some ways, it must be even harder on Angels fans this year. They wouldn’t trade any of their prospects for the help they needed(Mainly offense) and now they will watch the A’s once again get the division, and get knocked out in the first round.

By Head Coach

September 14, 2006 01:19 AM | Link to this

Robert , you need to find another sport. You know very little about baseball. Hudson is a winner and a bargain at 8 million , he has never won less than 11 games in a season in 8 major league Campaigns and you conveniently forget he won 14 games last season in the N.L. The Braves have used ten starting pitchers this season and last season. A playoff caliber baseball team is going to need six quality starters over the course of a 162 game marathon. Smoltz is the biggest and best postseason pitcher in major league history…… do I need to say anything more ? Edgar Renteria is an all-Star caliber SS with two gold gloves , four silver slugger awards and four all-star nominations and your going to replace him with who ??? Chipper is a Braves icon with bad wheels and a huge contract , nothing can be done to improve the situation. Trade Andruw Jones ? He is a 10 and 5 player and cant be traded without his consent and he wants to stay in Atlanta. He will either sign a contract extension or he will be a free agent after 2007 and if he walks the Braves will get two compensation picks. About the only thing you got right was trading Giles , the Braves have a surplus of cheap talented infielders. and yes they have a leadoff hitter , his name is Gregor Blanco and you will see him in spring training. BUSINESS is the correct spelling for the word , have you ever heard of spell check ?

By The Mound and the Fury

September 14, 2006 01:23 AM | Link to this

Head Coach —

John Smoltz and all other postseason pitchers take a back seat to the great Bob Gibson. No one, EVER was a tougher pitcher in big games.

By The Grinch

September 14, 2006 03:17 AM | Link to this

Head Coach, Hudson won 12 games this year but also lost 11 (so far). Yes, he’s had a good career to this point if you factor in what he did in Oakland. He’s been given more, far more than enough time for an uninjured player to “regain” his form, and he hasn’t. He’s a #4 starter at this point, and since all teams need a #4 starter his pitching would be worth retaining for the Braves at about half of what he’s making (especially further down the road). In the old days, we could afford to overpay, but these aren’t the old days. Since he isn’t likely to give us a discount, and he obviously isn’t comfortable pitching here, trading him to an AL team for an area of need and freeing up his salary seems like a viable option to me (assuming someone would take him at that rate). I agree about Renteria, though; the guy’s very solid and a steal at what we’re paying.

By Tomahawkin

September 14, 2006 03:27 AM | Link to this

Hudson has been a bust so far… I dunno what the hell has gotten into him, but he suks….

Probably the biggest dissapointment of the year…

But hell if it wasn’t for Reeksma, and Jorge Blowsa, we’d have the wildcard wrapped up 4 another early october exit

BTW I love the Friends and Family only crowds at the Ted…

By The Grinch

September 14, 2006 03:36 AM | Link to this

“The reason I don’t say some of this stuff is because it could be used as a reflection on someone else.” Um, Smoltz? I love you man, but isn’t that kind of like saying “I would call you a moron, but I don’t want to offend you so I won’t.” He’s also insisting on making his next scheduled start, as if he had something to prove, right after somewhat arrogantly stating he doesn’t have to prove anything. Which one is it? I personally think he doesn’t have to prove anything with what he’s done for us at this point. His option should also have been excersized without question even if he blew his elbow out, in recognition of these things. That said, he should also keep his mouth shut and act like he’s got some class, and do what’s best for himself and the team and rest ‘till next season so he can hope not to suffer the aforementioned injury. I hope he doesn’t wind up like Holyfield, and prove everything that he needed to prove, keep plugging away thinking he’s still got to prove more even when everyone says he doesn’t, and wind up in five years embarrasing himself after his seventh elbow surgery going 1-6 for Tampa Bay’s AAA team to prove he can still get someone out. That same pride and competetive spirit that makes some great often proves their undoing, much to the sadness of their longtime fans.

By The Grinch

September 14, 2006 03:45 AM | Link to this

T’Hawk, you being sarcastic about those crowds? I know I would be. Watching a below .500 team is only fun if you can be rowdy; how much fun was it in the old days to have someone give you some tickets (nobody wanted them), bring in what you wanted and sit where you wanted, drink and eat what you wanted basically for free, and watch the streakers and drunks make total fools of themselves? I understood the switch to “Family-oriented” games when we started being one of the best teams in the game, but charging what they charge now for tickets, plus $3 bottled water, $7 beers, no moving up, no coolers, no cussing, etc. is ridiculous for a team that isn’t much better than it was in 1990. Hopefully they’ll be back in form next year, ‘cause I doubt they’re gonna lower prices/loosen restrictions.

By Bill Clyde

September 14, 2006 04:10 AM | Link to this

A couple of months ago when it seemed like we still had a chance this year I described Adam LaRoche as a poor man’s Mark Grace, thinking he would hit for about the same power, give about the same caliber defense, but generally hit for a lower average and likely not provide the same clubhouse leadership as Gracie. I’m enjoying a nice filet-of-crow-tartar right now, as this sustained tear he’s been on has made me a believer, and kudos to the coaching staff for sticking with him and letting him hit against lefties, rather than platooning him (he and Pendleton both credit that with keeping his swing consistent). I still don’t see him being much of a clubhouse leader (that’s ok, there’s others to do that job), and I’d like to see him write an inspirational message under his capbill to the effect of “quit doing stupid sh*t”, (i.e., the bunt in Florida), but he appears to be a fine long-term answer at first base, certainly more than enough to wipe away memories of Robert Fick, Wally Joyner, Rico Brogna, Ken Caminiti, Bobby Bonilla, et al. That being written, I have to disagree with the last line of Curtright’s blog: McCann and Francoeur have both had bigger years than anyone could have reasonably expected (there’s usually a second-year slump as players adjust to the learning curve), Renteria definitely had a better year this year (I know he was with the BoSox last year, but the fact) remains), and Villarreal and James have been pleasant surprises. The tone of that last sentence just struck the wrong chord with me, as this season’s failure to win another division title hasn’t been about individual players failing to stand up and deliver their best, there’s just been too many things that went wrong this year, and the glaring budget deficiency prevented the organization from going out and getting the trademark depth they’ve been known for and desperately needed this year. These things happen, y’know.

By Head Coach

September 14, 2006 05:02 AM | Link to this

Ive lost all respect for the idiocracy in here. Hudson is a career 118 wins and 59 losses and 3.52 ERA , if that is a number four starter the Grinch and Santa Claus are one in the same. Bob Gibson is a career 7-2 in the postseason , Smoltz is 15-4 with the most postseason wins in major league history. Once again proving that I actually have my facts and stats straight and the idiocracy keeps talking out its butt.

By Lester Reyes

September 14, 2006 05:08 AM | Link to this

Even though this is off-topic, at least it’s still Braves-related, and not about toe-pie, etc.: I had written on a blog a few days ago (now closed for comments, so I’m writing here) that Wickman was overachieving quite a bit as a Brave, and that, while I would still prefer to see him re-signed as the Braves closer for next year, just don’t expect him to be quite as amazing next year. I was called-out for that, but never had a chance to gather the data to respond. There’s something to be said for the effect of an accomplished, effective veteran pitcher switching leagues as Wickman has, but that effect won’t last much longer than one trip around the league (additionally, he will be 38 when Camp Roger starts next year, and at 6’1”, 240 lbs, is clearly modeling himself after Terry Forster—a side note: why are some of the best bullpen pitchers burly, bearded guys who look like they oughtta be playing beer-league softball?). So, here’s my facts, straight from mlb.com: since donning a Brave uniform, Wickman has achieved some truly off-the-charts numbers, like a K/BB ratio of 20.00; it had never been as high as 5.00 at any other time in his career. His Brave BB/9 of 0.46 had never been as low as 1.75 at any other time in his career, and had only been lower than 2.50 once before. His Brave WHIP of 0.92 is nearly a half-point below his career mark of 1.40. His opponents’ SLG of .276 while with the Braves is dramatically lower than the .393 mark he posted with Cleveland earlier in the year (slugging percentage cannot be explained away as poor defense, as many were saying was the reason Wickman needed to leave Cleveland—an opponent either hits the ball a long way or he doesn’t). His opponents’ OBP since coming to ATL has been .234, a full .101 lower than his career mark of .335 (again, that’s a career mark, not just one half-year with Cleveland’s supposedly awful infield defense). I’ll spare those of you the time and effort who are thinking that the difference in the two leagues is the DH—please, how many pitchers do you think any NL closer faces in a season? I’ll bet it’s somewhere between zero and none. There are a few other worthwhile stats, like his opponents’ batting average being nearly 50 points lower in ATL than in CLE this year, and his K/9 is nearly double what it was in CLE, but hopefully this is enough to demonstrate my point. And, yes, of course I’m glad he’s doing it for ATL and not some other team, but that was never at issue; I merely wrote that he was drastically overachieving (and feel confident in saying so since we have a full career’s worth of stats to compare), and don’t expect it to be quite so great next year. He’s gonna blow a few, and that’s ok, because all closers do. I think his greatest asset to the team will be as a teacher to the young generation of Braves bullpen arms. They sure could’ve used one over the years, what with so many failed/traded-away closers-of-the-future like Kevin McGlinchy, Tim Spooneybarger (anyone remember when he had his own website?), Luis Rivera, etc.

By Nelson Hawkins

September 14, 2006 05:44 AM | Link to this

Head Coach, not to take anything away from how straight you keep your facts and from which orifice you expel them, but Hudson’s 118-59 record includes a 92-39 record with Oakland, meaning that he is 26-20 in 2 seasons as a Brave. Do you believe the Braves thought they’d be getting a picher posting an average record of 13-10 when they signed him to his big contract (roughly $1 million per win)? His career ERA has actually climbed 0.20 just this season. That’s an extra 44 earned runs over the course of a 200-inning season, or well over an extra earned run per start, and he switched to the league without the DH. His current ERA of 4.95 is the worst it’s ever been; the guy just is not a National League pitcher; he gets by on his junk, not his fastball/sinker, and for his sake I hope he is traded back to the American League. At this point, the best that can be said is that he hasn’t had a losing season yet, although he’s getting close—this year marks his first season with double-digit losses.

Additionally, comparing Bob Gibson, who pitched his entire postseason career before the NLCS was introduced in 1969 (Gibby retired in 1975, and the Cards never made it to the playoffs with him after 1968) to John Smoltz, who not only pitched in several NLCS, but also many NLDS, is a joke—you deserve some trademark Gibby chin music for that one.

By the way, does your loss of “all respect for the idiocracy in here” mean that you previously held a measure of respect for the idiocracy?

By ncscoots

September 14, 2006 06:24 AM | Link to this

well, totally off any baseball subject, I do want thank Head Coach for a new word to add to our blog-speak (to go along with clary, etc.). “idiocracy: a group of very dumb people engaged in a like-minded activity; similar to bureaucracy…just worse”. Good deal. We don’t seem to be getting much else accomplished on the blog these days, but a finding a good new blog-word makes any day a winner!

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 06:42 AM | Link to this

Mets Magic number down to 2. And case you haven’t noticed they have the best record in baseball. So much for your predictions of failure for the METS!!!

By Luis

September 14, 2006 07:52 AM | Link to this

I CAN UNDERSTAND THE BRAVES LOSING IT THIS YEAR AND EVERYTHING THAT IS FINE AND THAT IS PART OF SPORTS SPECIALLY BASEBALL, HOWEVER WHAT I CAN’T UNDERSTAND IS THE BRAVES PLAYING WITH ABSOLUTELY NO FIRE YESTERDAY ADTER GETTING DOWN, THE ROLLED OVER AND LET THE PHILLIES SPANK US, IF I WAS THE BRAVES I WOULD HAVE SOME PRIDE AND SPECIALLY SOME FRUSTRATION TO TAKE OUT ON OPPOSING TEAMS, YOU NEED TO PLA UNTIL THE FRIKING FINAL OUT AND NOT LET TEAMS INSULT YOU LIKE THEY DID, BRAVES FANS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SUPPORTIVE BUT WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS S**, COME OUT TO PLAY AND PLAY HARD EVEN IF YOU LOSE, IF YOU DON’T FORGET ABOUT THE GODDAM FANS, THANKS

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

September 14, 2006 07:53 AM | Link to this

Head Coach, first I apologize for the spelling error. Considering how long my post was I will take one incorrectly spelled word. I forgot that I’m talking to a bunch of English majors here. Secondly, I know plenty about baseball. I never said Hudson was a bad pitcher. If you actually read the post there skippy, I said that I believe Hudson is just one of those guys that is better suited for the AL. I realize he won 14 games last year but much like you people say that Francoeur’s season is unimpressive despite the numbers so was Hudson’s. He won all those games more because of the team around him than himself. He has been horrible this year and last night was another example.

The guys I listed as trade possibilites are the ones who can bring us the most value for what we need. My reason for trading Renteria is the same reason you want Giles traded. We have plenty of younger way cheaper middle infielders that could take their place.

And, Head Coach, are you seriously going to compare getting some lame draft picks a better option for Andruw than the likes of Vernon Wells or freeing up the money to get a Soriano or Carlos Lee? You were kidding……right?

By Not Yet NL Champs

September 14, 2006 07:57 AM | Link to this

Somehow I don’t think a playoff rotation of Glavine, Trachsel, and Maine has San Diego, L.A., St. Louis, or any other NL playoff contender quaking in their cleats. Despite Baseball Tonight’s greatest efforts to prove the contrary, the NY Mess simply is not a team of destiny…maybe a team of density with that inflated payroll.

By Faker McAlias

September 14, 2006 08:12 AM | Link to this

I agree that Andruw might need to be moved while his value is relatively high; the one CF I would trade straight-up for him would be Vernon Wells, and the Jays have apparently discussed the possibility of moving him in the offseason, and their ownership has already committed to a higher payroll for next season, all of which would bode well for the possibility of a trade. Monkeywrenches include Andruw’s right to veto any trade—would he want to commit himself to a full season of banging around on that old-fashioned artificial turf they have up there? (and by the way, what exactly was the point of them building the first retractable-roof baseball stadium if they were going to put down Astroturf?). Also, would Toronto be willing to commit that much of its presumably larger payroll to an older player who may be declining (it’s just too hard to tell with Andruw—on defense you know you’re getting a Gold Glover, on offense you could get 51 HRs with little-to-no clutch-hitting, or just another 30 HR guy—they’re more plentiful than they used to be).

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this

Green Jacket,

When did I ever say I was a Phillies fan? Thanks for the update on low A baseball, but here is what I said:

Oh, and by the way, for the record if I’m a Phillies fan I don’t care so much about the historical perspective of Ryan Howard’s season. I just care that he’s the best hitter in the league and he’s helping us win games…I’m not going to boo him.

By KC

September 14, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

Fire LaRoche!!!! LaRoche Sucks!!!!!! Remember those comments? Where are those people now???

By Ken

September 14, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

Hey cutty: Hit “post” once. Hit “post” once. Hit “post” once. Hit “post” once………….

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

It’s funny to hear that the Mets piching staff doesn’t have the other potential playoff teams “shaking in their cleats” but the team just keeps on winning with that rotation. And if the pitching doesn’t worry them I’m sure that lineup will be a concern come playoff time.

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

Shaun, dude do get some kind of residuals for that book “Baseball by The Numbers” or whatever its called. You have been pushing that book all summer. And you are straight up wrong about about RBI not being an important stat. Runs scored is a very important number but guess what, genius, you can’t score a run unless someone knocks you in. They go hand in hand.

What can I say, it’s a good book. Very informative.

RBI are overrated. They are not important in terms of judging an individual player’s abilities or performance. If you have a lot of high on-base guys in front of you in the lineup, you’re going to have a higher RBI total than an equal hitter with equal plate appearances hitting behind low on-base guys. I don’t see how anyone can deny that.

Do you think Raul Ibanez has been better at creating runs than Jim Thome? Well, Ibanez has more RBI. Thome is significantly better in almost every offensive category. Don’t you think if RBI was that important that Thome, clearly the better hitter, would be leading in that category?

Also, take a look at the league’s RBI leaders. Do you think it’s a coinidence that the top RBI guys all play on above-average offensive teams even though there are some clearly superior hitters on lesser offensive teams?

By KC

September 14, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this

Actually, LaRoche is even better than we think. Keep in mind that he’s only had 438 AB’s. That’s not necessarily a lot of AB’s for this point in the season. Spending the first part of the season as a platoon player cut into his plate appearances a bit. Project his current numbers (over 438 AB’s) to 550 at-bats, and you will have the following:

.297 Avg., 39-HR, 111-RBI, 45-doubles

If you project Andruw’s numbers out to 550 AB’s (he’s currently at 507), he would have 36 homers. This year LaRoche has displayed more power than Andruw, and he’s hitting 40 points higher. I say LaRoche, and not Andruw, should be hitting cleanup next year. Here’s the way I would fill out the lineup card next year (assuming the same cast of players):

1-Giles (2B)

2-Renteria (SS)

3-C.Jones (3B)

4-LaRoche (1B)

5-A.Jones (CF)

6-McCann (C)

7-Francoeur (RF)

8-Diaz/Thorman/Langerhanz (LF)

While moving a left-handed hitter into the cleanup spot may seem to make the Braves vulnerable to lefties, keep in mind also that Andruw is only hitting .213 against lefties (LaRoche hits .245 off them). With 3 of the 4 biggest bats in the lineup (LaRoche, McCann, A.Jones) all hitting for much lower averages against lefties… we’re a little bit vulnerable to lefties, however you line them up.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this

Champs-We already congratulated the Mets on their division win. They haven’t won anything of substance yet. You keep saying that the only satisfaction is winning it all and that is why the Braves, in your opinion, were not a dynasty. The Mets have only won the division. We’re really tired of you. Let’s see where the Mets end up. They may not even win the NL. Sop just go shut up. Then just fade away.

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

Who ever said Homeruns are everything?

TennesseePaul,

My point is that we shouldn’t deem Howard’s season historic just because of his high homerun total. And based on his other, more important numbers to creating runs, his season is outstanding, the best of 2006, but doesn’t really rank among the best of all-time.

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

One more thing….That rotation is 2nd in ERA in the NL and 5th in MLB

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

Whats the matter Lew? Haven’t had your coffee yet? That time of the month? It’s not like you to display such hostilities. This doesn’t have anything to do with losing both games of last nites double header? You’ll be fine. Fans in the 70’s and 80’s coped and so will you.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

Champs-We really don’t care.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

Champs-We really don’t care.

By ChampDawg

September 14, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

LaRoche has had a good year. But it’s the first one. Up to this year, his performance has been average at best. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. Is he now going to be a consistent producer? Let’s see next year.

Andruw continues not to hit for high average and this is dissappointing. But his HR’s and defense make up for it.

By Head Coach

September 14, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

When Smoltz and Hudson are stalwarts in the Braves rotation in 2007 , dont say I didnt tell you a full season in advance. Also ,I look forward to watching the Mets getting their A.S.S.E.S. handed to them in the playoffs.

By KC

September 14, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

NLCHAMPS:

The Mets are the greatest team in the history of the national passtime! Those Yankees teams of yesteryear are nothing compared to these amazing Mets. They should just call of the World Series right now, because no one else stands a chance in October.

There, is that what you’re looking for? Congatulations on the pennant… enough already.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

Champs-Dude, you are trruly a member of Head Coach’s Idiocracy. Are you really as low and shallow as you appear to be. My time of the month? What a bleepin’ a*******hole you are. Why do you think Braves fans give a flying whatever that the Mets beat them out. Big flippin deal. Go thump your chest and grab your crotch with the rest of ther Met’s on a Met’s blog. We really don’t care. We will cope just fine with not winning this year. I’ve been a Braves’ fan for over 35 years, so I have seen the losing. I am also a Tampa Bay Bucs fan and did artwork for the team during 12 of their 14 straight losing season. My attitude has nothing whatsoever to do with losing. My problem is with self important idiots who feel some unsubstantiated need to come into our yard and try to force us to contemplate our wretchedness. I repeat, We don’t care about the Mets. Go away and celebrate with someone who gives a s$$t.

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

Just hit the post button once LEW. You are so Grumpy this morning.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

Head Coach-Sorry-I did not mean to intimate that you are head of the idiocracy, only that you coined the term. It certainly fits.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

Yeah, Head Coach, you’re way smarter than all the rest of us. Your Smoltz vs. Gibson argument is pure genius. You stupidly ignore the fact that Bob Gibson posted his great 7-2 record and 1.89 postseason ERA in World Series games only. He didn’t get to match up against the Rockies and Astros and other 85-win teams in the wild card round every year and pad his stats and win totals. Yet his stats, against far better competition, still top Smoltz’s, who in World Series play is only 2-2 in 8 starts with a 2.49 ERA. But let’s delve further: Gibson made 9 World Series starts and pitched 81 innings (since you obviously have trouble with math, Coach, that’s NINE COMPLETE GAMES), allowing only 55 hits, 17 earned runs, 17 walks and an incredible 92 strikeouts. Smoltz? He’s impressive, all right, but he’d turn red with embarrassment at being compared with Gibson: Eight World Series starts, 50 2/3 innings pitched, 44 hits, 14 earned runs, 21 walks and 52 strikeouts.

NOW, Coach, you have your facts and stats straight. And they don’t favor John Boy.

Think next time before you post.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

Champs- I may be grumpy, but that doesn’t change my opinion of you and the rest of the Mets fans who come here to give us grief. You ain’t even conceived of what pi$$ed off is, Dude. Go away before you really find out. Just what is it you are trying to prove. Maybe Shaun P can find some stats to explain what you are trying to prove. But even if he does, we don’t care. Leave us to wallow in our loser status. Isn’t that what you want, anyway?

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Alright….Who pee’d in Lew’s and KC’s cherios??

By Head Coach

September 14, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Lew wanted to trade Laroche a couple of months ago and now he is eating crow. The same people who want to trade Hudson and Renteria ,I ask just who in the hell is going to fill their shoes ? Who ?????? NOBODY , thats who because they are going nowhere , period. The idiocracy can all go take a flying leap for all I care.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

Head Coach-I have done nothing today but compliment you on your coining of a new term. What crawled up your butt? A Mets fan? When did you ever hear me say that LaRoche or Renteria should be dumped? You didn’t, because I never said it. I don’t think they should go and never did. I think JS picking up Renteria and getting Boston to pay that much of his salary was genius. Hudson, on the other hand, is proving to be a poor number 4 starter, no matter what you think. On the early Braves winners of the 90’s he would have MAYBE been fifth starter instead of Charlie Liebrandt. !2-11 with a 4.95 ERA is NOT star status-it is dead average. Maybe you need some of that coffee NLChamps seems to think I need.

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

I have to say I’m very disappointed in you Lew. Of all the posters on this blog I always had the most respect for you. As for the threats before I see what p** off realy is. I gotta say I’m not real concerned. Lastly, I’ll visit any blog I like whenever I like…..”Freedom” is a wonderful thing.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

Champs-Yes-freedom to be a Mets fan and force yourself on people must be a wondrous thing for you. I am so happy you have found your calling in life. Too bad it had to be as a mosquito. Go buzz off.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 14, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

good morning, lew, from journalist jimmy smith. careful that you are not provoked by the sda. sda had quite a conversation with himself yesterday. probably had to change shoestrings twice. same guy with many names.

robertjitb, bobbycox, bobbydews, and patcorrales are 65, 67, and 65. they are indeed granddaddies to the young players the braves have assembled. the younger coaches are in demand and may be elsewhere next year. mccann’s daddy is journalist’s first choice for a new hire.

betcha the braves don’t break camp again with with old and infirm players like jordan, remlinger, and pratt. js has much work to do to get things straightened out.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

Champs-You say you had respect for me. Well, then maybe you will see how tired I and many others Braves’ fans are of Mets fans coming here to rub our noses in it. It took me this long to finally lose patience. Do you feel better about yourself and the Mets now that I have reacted? You really don’t seem to get it, do you. This is a Braves’ site. They also have Mets sites. I don’t post on them. I have not gone into your back yard, either this year or the past fifteen, to tell Met’s fans that they were losing (again). Why do you feel the need to come here and do it to us? What did we ever do to you to deserve it? Was it coming in behind us for 15 years that made you finally break with reality? Do you understand the parable of beating dead horses? Do you feel better now that you have made a normally agreeable person sink to your level? I sure hope you are satisfied. Yeah, I’m pi$$ed. Why shouldn’t I be and why shouldn’t I tell you about it? Makes more sense than you coming here and rubbing our noses in your (not quite yet) championship season.

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

NLChamps,

The factors that seem to matter in the playoffs are pitcher’s strikeout rate, defense and closer.

Just scanning the numbers, almost every team that reached the World Series since 2002 were the playoff teams with the lowest combined rank in batting average allowed and strikeouts.

The Mets look like the favorites, but it all depends on the health of Martinez and Glavine. You never know, though. The Dodgers pitching could step up. And the Cardinals have Carpenter and Izzy.

I say Minnesota over the Mets in the World Series. Minnesota has the best starter in baseball and one of the two best closers. But the post-season is anybody’s guess.

By Head Coach

September 14, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

TomA Hawk , what kind of stupid, moronic friggin trash are you talking about ? Smoltz is 15-4 in the postseason and you think you can skewer the stats by limiting his numbers to the World Series ? Get your facts straight and tell the truth. You are one narrow minded individual to think you can twist stats to fit your mind. Here is the real line on Smoltz in the postseason : 15-4 206.7 innings 24 starts 168 hits 61 ER 67 BB 194 SO . The winningest postseason pitcher in major league history and that is all the stats and facts !

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

I’m forcing anything??? I’m just giving my opinion. I’ve read some of the vents from other Met fans in the past and I consider my post’s passive in comparison.

By The Original Mr. Met

September 14, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

This is for Lew and KC and Not Yet NL Champs and all of those Braves fans who when the Braves were kicking the Mets asses talked so much $hit, enjoy this quote from one of your own:

**Even Braves see the difference September 7, 2006

This was not the kind of day that will inspire another Braves player to name his son Shea. This was the kind of day that left the Braves awed, subdued and saying things like this: “I believe they’re going to the World Series, but that’s just one man’s opinion.”

It wasn’t just any one man, but potential Hall of Fame pitcher John Smoltz, the standard bearer for the Braves teams that kept pummeling the Mets and raising all those division championship banners. This time, he and his team raised a white flag.**

Good night gentlemen, no matter what happens from here on all I know is the Mets put an end to this run the Braves had and that much can never be denied. The Mets may not win it all, heck they may not even win the National League, but one thing is for sure, neither will the Braves this year. Now I will go back to my own teams blog and leave you guys alone to mull over your own situation. I wont be bothering you again.

By journalist anti jimmy

September 14, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

jimmy loves attention - Oh the humanity! pies and toes and shoestrings aren’t that interesting - Oh the humanity!

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

HeadCoach and TomAHawk,

The Smoltz and Gibson comparison is apples to oranges. I have no idea who was better, but you do have to take into account that Gibson didn’t have the extra rounds and that Gibson pitched in the post-season in years that favored pitchers. I’m sure there is a way you can figure it out and weigh the World Series stats heavier. A simple way is to look at DIPS (expected ERA independent of the defense behind him) in the post-season for both pitchers. You still have to adjust for the fact that Gibson didn’t have the extra rounds and pitched in an era that favored pitchers, but DIPS is a good place to start.

I’ll see if I can look it up and post it tonight on the latest blog.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

BYE. Won’t even miss you. Now to all our Braves’ fans. Do you really think JS is going to revamp this team in the offseasn, making wholesale changes? What in our experience with the Esteemed GM makes you think major moves will be made? Head Coach-this you can use against me in the future if I’m wrong, but I doubt I am. JS will sign Wickman (he doesn’t dare NOT to this time). He will make one (maybe) big trade like the Renteria trade of last winter. He will then sign veteran players and cheap outcasts to fill holes in the bullpen. This is all he will do. It is exactly what he has done in all seasons since salary dropped. He has already said he feels we have a contender for 07. Why do you think he will make a series of big, convoluted trades when he has never done so before? Even this year, with a performance so far from normal, things have still been done the “Braves Way”. There has been no deviation from management’s normal way of doing things. This will not change in this offseason. There will certainly be no wholesale dismantling of this team. Oh, and no one is going to trade three young pitching prospects for Andruw. The proposed Red Sox trade should tell you that.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

Shaun-I don’t know what the stats say, but I saw both Gibby and Smoltz pitch. If I had them on the same team, Gibby would be my #1 starter and Smoltz #2. That is unless I had Sandy Koufax and then Gibby would be 2 and Smoltz 3. We won’t even get into Steve Carlton. Shaun-Here’s one for you. I contend that Steve Carlton had the best season of any pitcher, going 27-10 for a team (The Phillies-I think 1972) that only won 58 games. Any relevant thoughts and stats?

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

It’s OK, Coach. I understand. If my hero only had two World Series wins in 8 starts, I’d want to make him look better by including his numbers against lesser competition, too.

By the way, Gibson has two rings as well in 3 World Series, and was the Cardinals’ ace in every Series. Smoltzie sure is lucky Glavine was able to win him one title, huh?

By Richard Cory

September 14, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

Stinky—I’m here. Was a long night at McDonalds, but I’ll try to maintain. I’ll just quietly lie here like a snake in the grass awaiting your return—from school??

By KC

September 14, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

ChampDawg

LaRoche has had a good year. But it’s the first one. Up to this year, his performance has been average at best. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

You talk as though LaRoche has been some mediocre veteran for many years who finally put together put together a half-way decent season. The reality is that LaRoche is only a 3rd year player who has seized his first opportunity to play everyday in a major way and is having not a “good” year, but an outstanding one.

And as far as his first two seasons are concerned… in 2004, 2005 over 775 AB’s he produced the following: .267 AVG., with 33 homers and 123 RBI. To put that in perspective, if you project those numbers down to 550 AB’s you would have 23-HR, 86-RBI, 39-doubles. Those aren’t all-star numbers, but certainly productive… especially for a guy who had just broken into the majors. Let’s take a few of the best Braves hitters to come through Atlanta over the last couple decades and see how they fared when they first came up.

If you the numbers from the following players over their first two seasons in the big leagues and project those numbers (either up or down) to 550 AB’s, you will have the following:

Chipper Jones: .265 AVG. with 24 homers, 90 RBI, 23 doubles.

Andruw Jones: .227 with 25 homers, 90 RBI, 27 doubles

Andres Galarraga: .255 with 15 homers, 65 RBI, 19 doubles

Ron Gant: .260 with 18 homers, 59 RBI, 27 doubles

Dale Murphy: .240 with 18 homers, 72 RBI, 20 doubles (had to figure over his first 3 seasons because he only had 141 AB’s over his first two).

Jermaine Dye: .259 with 19 homers, 59 RBI, 30 doubles

Javy Lopez: .259 with 25 homers, 70 RBI, 21 doubles (had to figure over first 3 years because he only had 32 AB’s in first 2 seasons.)

Gary Sheffield: .246 with 11 homers, 55 RBI, 24 doubles

Also worth noting… Hank Aaron’s rookie year (in 468 AB’s): .280 with 13 homers, 69 RBI, 27 doubles. He turned out alright didn’t he?

I hope you can see how asinine it is for you to sit back and act like LaRoche is some average player who just got lucky, simply because his first two seasons weren’t all-star caliber.

By KC

September 14, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

ChampDawg

LaRoche has had a good year. But it’s the first one. Up to this year, his performance has been average at best. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

You talk as though LaRoche has been some mediocre veteran for many years who finally put together put together a half-way decent season. The reality is that LaRoche is only a 3rd year player who has seized his first opportunity to play everyday in a major way and is having not a “good” year, but an outstanding one.

And as far as his first two seasons are concerned… in 2004, 2005 over 775 AB’s he produced the following: .267 AVG., with 33 homers and 123 RBI. To put that in perspective, if you project those numbers down to 550 AB’s you would have 23-HR, 86-RBI, 39-doubles. Those aren’t all-star numbers, but certainly productive… especially for a guy who had just broken into the majors. Let’s take a few of the best Braves hitters to come through Atlanta over the last couple decades and see how they fared when they first came up.

If you the numbers from the following players over their first two seasons in the big leagues and project those numbers (either up or down) to 550 AB’s, you will have the following:

Chipper Jones: .265 AVG. with 24 homers, 90 RBI, 23 doubles.

Andruw Jones: .227 with 25 homers, 90 RBI, 27 doubles

Andres Galarraga: .255 with 15 homers, 65 RBI, 19 doubles

Ron Gant: .260 with 18 homers, 59 RBI, 27 doubles

Dale Murphy: .240 with 18 homers, 72 RBI, 20 doubles (had to figure over his first 3 seasons because he only had 141 AB’s over his first two).

Jermaine Dye: .259 with 19 homers, 59 RBI, 30 doubles

Javy Lopez: .259 with 25 homers, 70 RBI, 21 doubles (had to figure over first 3 years because he only had 32 AB’s in first 2 seasons.)

Gary Sheffield: .246 with 11 homers, 55 RBI, 24 doubles

Also worth noting… Hank Aaron’s rookie year (in 468 AB’s): .280 with 13 homers, 69 RBI, 27 doubles. He turned out alright didn’t he?

I hope you can see how asinine it is for you to sit back and act like LaRoche is some average player who just got lucky, simply because his first two seasons weren’t all-star caliber.

By KC

September 14, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

ChampDawg

LaRoche has had a good year. But it’s the first one. Up to this year, his performance has been average at best. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

You talk as though LaRoche has been some mediocre veteran for many years who finally put together put together a half-way decent season. The reality is that LaRoche is only a 3rd year player who has seized his first opportunity to play everyday in a major way and is having not a “good” year, but an outstanding one.

And as far as his first two seasons are concerned… in 2004, 2005 over 775 AB’s he produced the following: .267 AVG., with 33 homers and 123 RBI. To put that in perspective, if you project those numbers down to 550 AB’s you would have 23-HR, 86-RBI, 39-doubles. Those aren’t all-star numbers, but certainly productive… especially for a guy who had just broken into the majors. Let’s take a few of the best Braves hitters to come through Atlanta over the last couple decades and see how they fared when they first came up.

If you the numbers from the following players over their first two seasons in the big leagues and project those numbers (either up or down) to 550 AB’s, you will have the following:

Chipper Jones: .265 AVG. with 24 homers, 90 RBI, 23 doubles.

Andruw Jones: .227 with 25 homers, 90 RBI, 27 doubles

Andres Galarraga: .255 with 15 homers, 65 RBI, 19 doubles

Ron Gant: .260 with 18 homers, 59 RBI, 27 doubles

Dale Murphy: .240 with 18 homers, 72 RBI, 20 doubles (had to figure over his first 3 seasons because he only had 141 AB’s over his first two).

Jermaine Dye: .259 with 19 homers, 59 RBI, 30 doubles

Javy Lopez: .259 with 25 homers, 70 RBI, 21 doubles (had to figure over first 3 years because he only had 32 AB’s in first 2 seasons.)

Gary Sheffield: .246 with 11 homers, 55 RBI, 24 doubles

Also worth noting… Hank Aaron’s rookie year (in 468 AB’s): .280 with 13 homers, 69 RBI, 27 doubles. He turned out alright didn’t he?

I hope you can see how asinine it is for you to sit back and act like LaRoche is some average player who just got lucky, simply because his first two seasons weren’t all-star caliber.

By Richard Cory

September 14, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Stinky-I’m here. Was a long night at McDonalds, but I’ll try to maintain. I’ll just quietly lie here like a snake in the grass awaiting your return—from school??

By KC

September 14, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this

ChampDawg

LaRoche has had a good year. But it’s the first one. Up to this year, his performance has been average at best. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

You talk as though LaRoche has been some mediocre veteran for many years who finally put together put together a half-way decent season. The reality is that LaRoche is only a 3rd year player who has seized his first opportunity to play everyday in a major way and is having not a “good” year, but an outstanding one.

And as far as his first two seasons are concerned… in 2004, 2005 over 775 AB’s he produced the following: .267 AVG., with 33 homers and 123 RBI. To put that in perspective, if you project those numbers down to 550 AB’s you would have 23-HR, 86-RBI, 39-doubles. Let’s take a few of the best Braves hitters to come through Atlanta over the last couple decades and see how they fared when they first came up.

If you the numbers from the following players over their first two seasons in the big leagues and project those numbers (either up or down) to 550 AB’s, you will have the following:

Chipper Jones: .265 AVG. with 24 homers, 90 RBI, 23 doubles.

Andruw Jones: .227 with 25 homers, 90 RBI, 27 doubles

Andres Galarraga: .255 with 15 homers, 65 RBI, 19 doubles

Dale Murphy: .240 with 18 homers, 72 RBI, 20 doubles (had to figure over his first 3 seasons because he only had 141 AB’s over his first two).

Gary Sheffield: .246 with 11 homers, 55 RBI, 24 doubles

A few more… Ron Gant: .260 with 18 homers, 59 RBI, 27 doubles / Jermaine Dye: .259 with 19 homers, 59 RBI, 30 doubles / Javy Lopez: .259 with 25 homers, 70 RBI, 21 doubles (had to figure over first 3 years because he only had 32 AB’s in first 2 seasons.)

Also worth noting… Hank Aaron’s rookie year (in 468 AB’s): .280 with 13 homers, 69 RBI, 27 doubles. He turned out alright didn’t he?

I hope you can see how asinine it is for you to sit back and act like LaRoche is some average player who just got lucky, simply because his first two seasons weren’t all-star caliber.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

Gee, Shaun, can’t wait.

But thanks for reminding me that Gibson with his magnificent 1968 season singlehandedly forced the powers that be to lower the mound.

Smoltzie has a Cy Young Award, though, Coach. You can cling to that as you screech in his defense.

By KC

September 14, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Is anyone else having touble posting?

By Clint

September 14, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

You guys want to talk about a money pitcher and while I do agree that Smoltz and Gibson both were just that—I would put my money on Mr. Koufax. When healthy in a big game no one I ever saw could compare.

By Green Jacket

September 14, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

Shaun, Oh, well that’s different. Never mind.

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

Lew,

It’s hard to compare pitching from different eras because pitching has changed so much.

Charles Radbourn’s 1884 season is the highest impact season in history. He went 59-12 and gave up 216 runs in…678.7 innings! But that was the first year of legal overhand pitching, so he probably figured it out quicker than anybody. And the same pitcher threw pretty much every game for your team.

Even pitching in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s is very different than pitching now.

Also almost all stats commonly used to judge pitchers are flawed, flawed even more than stats commonly used to judge hitters.

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

My point is that we shouldn’t deem Howard’s season historic just because of his high homerun total.

So you mean to tell me, Even if all his peripheral Sabremetric stats were lower than the next guy, if Howard had hit 100 homeruns this year, you wouldn’t call it historic? Come on Payne, not every historic event has to be the end-all be-all event of history on every possible level. I don’t think anyone on this blog has ever claimed Howard is having the single greatest season in history. But that isn’t necessary for his accomplishments to be historic.

On a different note, I think it’s time Bobby start using Langerhans as a defensive sub in the later innings. Start Diaz, get the runs on the board, then bring in Ryan to secure the victory.
Had Hudson improved on what he did last year, I’d be happy, but he has steadily gone down hill this season. His value is probably at it’s lowest level, but honestly, I think trading him for a Max Ramirez type player would be a good move right now, if there is a team willing to take on all his salary. He’s painfully turning into the next Kevin Brown.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

Gee, Shaun, can’t wait.

But thanks for reminding me that with his magnificent 1968 season, Gibson proved so utterly dominating that the powers that be felt compelled to change the rules to give the poor batters a fighting chance.

Smoltz has a Cy Young Award, though, Coach. You can desperately cling to that as you screech your lame points.

Good point, Lew — Sandy Koufax is another pitcher with postseason numbers superior to Smoltz.

Take your time, Shaun. No rush.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

Gee, Shaun, can’t wait.

But thanks for reminding me that with his magnificent 1968 season, Gibson proved so utterly dominating that the powers that be felt compelled to change the rules to give the poor batters a fighting chance.

Smoltz has a Cy Young Award, though, Coach. You can desperately cling to that as you screech your lame points.

Good point, Lew — Sandy Koufax is another pitcher with postseason numbers superior to Smoltz.

Take your time, Shaun. No rush.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

Gee, Shaun, can’t wait.

But thanks for reminding me that with his magnificent 1968 season, Gibson proved so utterly dominating that the powers that be felt compelled to change the rules to give the poor batters a fighting chance.

Smoltz has a Cy Young Award, though, Coach. You can desperately cling to that as you screech your lame points.

Good point, Lew — Sandy Koufax is another pitcher with postseason numbers superior to Smoltz.

Take your time, Shaun. No rush.

By Clint

September 14, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Hello all. Anybody there??

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

Lew,

It’s hard to compare pitchers from different eras because pitching has changed so much. In the early days pitcher was the least important position, then it started to resemble fast-pitch softball, then overhanded. And in the early days the same pitcher would pitch virtually every inning of every game. Even pitching in the 1970’s and 1980’s was much different than it is now.

Also, stats commonly used to judge pitchers are flawed…even more flawed that stats commonly used to judge hitters:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2590

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

Gee, Shaun, can’t wait.

Thanks, though, for reminding me that Gibson was so dominant in 1968 that he singlehandedly forced a change in the rules to give the poor batter a fighting chance.

And good point, Lew — Koufax is another pitcher with postseason numbers superior to Smoltz.

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

My point is that we shouldn’t deem Howard’s season historic just because of his high homerun total.

Come on Payne, if Howards sabremetric stats were below the next guy, but he had 100 HR, would you call that historic?
I don’t recall anyone on this blog stating Howards season is the single greatest season a player could ever have. But that doesn’t mean his season isn’t historic. He’s accomplishing a feat which isn’t easily done. I’ve said it before, but… He’s on pace to be one of only 7 in the history of baseball to do what he is doing. He is on pace to be the ONLY guy to do it in their first full season. Meaning he’ll be the first (1st).

On a different note, I think it’s time to start bringing in Langerhans as the defensive specialist in the late innings. We have got to get back to .500. I fear Hudson is becoming the next Kevin Brown and I’d be happy right now if he were traded for Max Ramirez, as long as the other team is taking on full salary.

To that guy posting on Wicky. Nice job pulling the stats. But I still don’t see any problems with resigning him. Unless we can make a trade which brings something better back, there is no loss in assuming he’ll be servicable or better in the role next year. Plus, it could be that his over-achieving is a direct result of playing for Cox. Every interview the guy has, he praises Cox. Maybe he’s just stoked to be playing for him…

By KC

September 14, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

ChampDawg

LaRoche has had a good year. But it’s the first one. Up to this year, his performance has been average at best. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

You talk as though LaRoche has been some mediocre veteran for many years who finally put together put together a half-way decent season. The reality is that LaRoche is only a 3rd year player who has seized his first opportunity to play everyday in a major way and is having not a “good” year, but an outstanding one.

And as far as his first two seasons are concerned… in 2004, 2005 over 775 AB’s he produced the following: .267 AVG., with 33 homers and 123 RBI. To put that in perspective, if you project those numbers down to 550 AB’s you would have 23-HR, 86-RBI, 39-doubles. Let’s take a few of the best Braves hitters to come through Atlanta over the last couple decades and see how they fared when they first came up.

If you the numbers from the following players over their first two seasons in the big leagues and project those numbers (either up or down) to 550 AB’s, you will have the following:

Chipper Jones: .265 AVG. with 24 homers, 90 RBI, 23 doubles.

Andruw Jones: .227 with 25 homers, 90 RBI, 27 doubles

Andres Galarraga: .255 with 15 homers, 65 RBI, 19 doubles

Dale Murphy: .240 with 18 homers, 72 RBI, 20 doubles (had to figure over his first 3 seasons because he only had 141 AB’s over his first two).

Gary Sheffield: .246 with 11 homers, 55 RBI, 24 doubles

A few more… Ron Gant: .260 with 18 homers, 59 RBI, 27 doubles / Jermaine Dye: .259 with 19 homers, 59 RBI, 30 doubles / Javy Lopez: .259 with 25 homers, 70 RBI, 21 doubles (had to figure over first 3 years because he only had 32 AB’s in first 2 seasons.)

Also worth noting… Hank Aaron’s rookie year (in 468 AB’s): .280 with 13 homers, 69 RBI, 27 doubles. He turned out alright didn’t he?

I hope you can see how asinine it is for you to sit back and act like LaRoche is some average player who just got lucky, simply because his first two seasons weren’t all-star caliber.

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Lew,

It’s kindof hard to evaluate pitching in different eras, because pitching has changed so much…much more than hitting.

Tom A. Hawk,

Yeah, Paul O’Neill has, what, four World Series rings and was the starting rightfielder and a key offensive player in all four? Must mean he’s better than Ted Williams.

By MetsWin

September 14, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

Just wanted to say one thing: for YEARS we Mets fans have had to deal with obnoxious Braves fans coming onto our blogs and message boards and saying much worse things than any Met fan has said here. So please don’t try to act like this is the first time a fan has crossed lines onto another board. You Atlanta people have been doing it for a long time, and now it’s your turn to hear some thoughts from the other side. That’s all.

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

It depends on how you define historic. It is historic in the sense that he’s doing something that has never been done before and he’s putting up remarkable homerun numbers.

Say someone broke the singles record but had no power, was a horrible defensive player, and mostly just made outs in his other at-bats. It’s historic in the sense that he had an amazing amount of singles, but it’s not in the sense that it is one of the great seasons in history. That’s an extreme example of what I’m talking about with Howard. Howard’s season is obviously great, probably better than anyone else’s in 2006, but it’s not historic in the sense that it’s among the greatest in history.

My definition of a historic season is one in which a player contributes runs to his team’s total at among the highest rates in history. Howard hasn’t done that. His stats that indicate creating runs are remarkable but not historic.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

You’ve got quite the biting wit for a Bill James groupie, Shaun. I’m sure your idol could tell you, though, without checking any data that the Yankess would still have those titles without Paul O’ Neill, but since Bob Gibson was the winning pitcher in two games in the 1964 World Series and three games in the 1967 World Series, I think it’s safe to assume without checking your blessed sabremetrics the the Cardinals don’t win either of those series without him.

Here’s another pretty obvious point, Mr. Payne-in the A-s-s, for which I don’t need your esoteric minutiae to back me up. Bob Gibson won 7 of 9 World Series starts, and it easily could have been 8 of 9 but for a misplayed fly ball in Game 7 in 1968. John Smoltz has won 2 of 8 World Series starts. Thus ends any argument in favor of Smoltz as the superior postseason pitcher.

Anyone but a blind man or a Braves fan can see it.

Glad to see you’ve at least gotten over your Ryan Howard bashing, Shaun. You were looking stupider and geekier by the minute with that lame campaign.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Oops, I stand corrected. I should have known you wouln’t be able to let it go just yet.

By Homer

September 14, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

All you people are fools, Charley Kerfeld was the best pitcher ever, case closed.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

Well MetsWin-It sure wasn’t me on your blogs and the people who are not Mets fans that post on Mets blogs are a*******hole$ too. Doesn’t make you any better, does it. What did Mommy tell you about two wrongs? You’ve made your point. Now go brag with your friends on the Mets blog. I promise you won’t see me there. Go away. Prepare for the rest of the season you haven’t won. ShaunP-How about comparing a pitcher’s percentage of his team’s wins. That should probably be era friendly, unless maybe you’re comparing Hoss Radbourne to Carlton. I think each team must have only had two pitchers each in that era. ERA would probably be somewhat comparable except when compared to the “Enhanced” era.. I know his ERA that year was good, but not the best. 27 of 58 wins has to be something special, though, even when compared historically.

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

Andy Petite and beleive it or not, Babe Ruth have some good numbers in the post season as well. Don’t tell Lew I’m on the blog, he’s gonna get pis$&*@sed again.

By Lew

September 14, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

Get over yourself almost Champs.

By Homer

September 14, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

Watch out for Lew, he’s an ornery cuss.

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Oh No… Lew knows I’m here. Can I stay a little longer….PLEASE

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Oh no…..I’ve been snagged by officer Lew. I’m sorry sir. Can I stay a while longer?

By TheSouthernJackAss

September 14, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

I would like to take a moment from my busy schedule and congratulate the 2006 Atlanta Braves for not exiting the playoffs this year in the first round—TheSouthernJackAss would also like to congratulate the entire Braves organization for their first successful losing season, and I do wish them well in their endeavor to also set a new streak of losing seasons equal to, or exceeding their previous 14 straight seasons of underachievement and mediocrity—again, Thank You Atlanta Braves for all the laughs, and for finally not ruining October baseball!!!…GO TIGERS!!!…

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

I’ll interpret Shaun’s rare silence as a concession of defeat.

I’m going back into the real world now, a world where Atlanta is a losing 4th-place squad and ballplayers besides Braves and former Braves can be the best.

Try to get some sun today, Shaun. You’re looking awfully pale and defeated.

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Tom A. Hawk,

Yeah, calling me names does a lot to prove your point.

Before you get all snippy and emotional, why don’t you read my post. I said I wasn’t sure who the better post-season pitcher was. I didn’t say Smoltz was better. Gibson could very well have been a better post-season pitcher, I don’t know.

Sure, the Cardinals wouldn’t have won the World Series without Bob Gibson, but would they have won the series or even reached the series without Orlando Cepeda or Steve Carlton or Dick Hughes? What’s your point?

Also, Smoltz could have easily won game 7 of the ‘91 World Series. Just like you can bring up games that Gibson could have easily won, I’m sure you can bring up games that a lot of pitchers could have easily won.

Baseball is a team game. Just because Bob Gibson won, doesn’t mean he was the best pitcher. I actually agree with you that Gibson probably was a better post-season pitcher than Smoltz, but not because he won…but because he gave his team a better chance to win in more meaningful games more often.

Winning doesn’t mean much when evaluating individual player’s abilities. Ted Williams probably did as much to help his team win as anyone, except maybe Babe Ruth, but his team never won. Does that mean Williams can’t be considered among the greatest hitters ever?

And I’m discussing Ryan Howard because somebody asked me a question.

Why don’t you try reason and common sense over emotion?

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

I’ll interpret Shaun’s rare silence as a concession of defeat.

I’m going back into the real world now, a world where Atlanta is a losing 4th-place squad and ballplayers besides Braves and former Braves can be the best.

Try to get some sun today, Shaun. You’re looking awfully pale and defeated.

By The Grinch

September 14, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

Good morning, All! My, I see we’re having a good time so far! Thank you, Nelson Hawkins, for keeping this post 2/3 shorter by saying exactly what I was going to in response to Head Coach. I’ll take it a step further, though. I normally don’t jump headfirst into this kind of debate with folks, not because I don’t know baseball fairly well, but because it usually doesn’t amount to anything. You just happened to post something particularly unintelligent during a time I was the only one there, and I gave a polite and well-reasoned counterpoint to avoid some of the nastiness prevalent here lately. You responded like a nine year-old. Are you old enough to BE a Head Coach? One can’t, as a general rule, aquire intelligence, but one can aquire wisdom, experience and class. You, sir, have none of the aforementioned attributes; I assume your monikker is some sort of sarcastic joke. Anyhoo, I will cease talking baseball with you (why duel with the unarmed?); Shaun Payne may be often wrong (in my opinion), but at least he knows how to read and has the ability to carry on an often heated discussion without throwing a mindless temper-tantrum the instant someone disagrees with him. BTW, Shaun, though I DO disagree with you, I respect your opinion and was just messin’ with you yesterday. See, Head Coach? People can have different opinions without everyone else who doesn’t share theirs being a total moron. Alas, I’m afraid you belong in that latter category. You and SDA/Stinky should have your own talk show.

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

Tom A. Hawk,

Using a team’s wins to measure individual player’s performance is dumb. Gibson could have been the best pitcher ever, but if he played for a bad team, it wouldn’t matter, Gibson would still be a great pitcher.

It’s rediculous to say because his team won the World Series, he’s the greatest.

Also, the Cards wouldn’t have reached or won the Series without Gibson or Cepeda or Dick Hughes or Steve Carlton, so what’s your point?

I happen to agree with you that Gibson probably was the better post-season pitcher, but not because his team won. But because he gave his team a better chance to when in more meaningful games more often.

Baseball’s a team game. Ted Williams gave his team a chance to win as much as anybody in baseball history, but he never won a World Series. Does that automatically disqualify Williams as one of the greatest hitters ever?

I think you’re probably right about Gibson, but your logic is flawed as to why he was probably better than Smoltz.

Try common sense and reason over emotion.

And I posted about Howard because someone asked me a question.

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

Sheesh! They both showed up. I was getting errors out the arse every time I posted, then they wouldn’t be there… Didn’t mean to post the same thought so many times. I had to re-type the whole thing and couldn’t remember what exactly I wrote. Now they’re both there. Oh well. Not as bad as Cutty though.

Payne: Finally! Finally. We are on the same page. It’s the semantics. The scope of the word historic is confined by the context in which it is applied. So I don’t think there is a need to restrict the definition of Historic. It can apply to a part as well as a whole.
As a whole, I’d venture to say Howard is having the best single season, for the first full season of player, in baseball history. But I don’t have the books in front of me to find out for sure.

KC: Nice. Real nice. I like the perspective on LaRoche. I’ll admit it, I was not a fan of the man the first two years. His numbers look good when projected, but he wasn’t fun to watch. Actually, it was almost dreadful. He always seemed to be making the final out of the inning instead of prolonging it. But I cheered for him any way (and cursed him when he failed: I do that during most games with most every player) and now he’s turned it around. Good for him. I hope he can build on this season and do it again, or better, next year and for years to come.

GO BRAVES

By Shaun

September 14, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Tom A Hawk,

And why don’t you try finding the answers to these questions—“Was Bob Gibson a greater pitcher in the post-season than Smoltz?” or “Was Gibson the greatest post-season pitcher ever?”—instead of just asserting that Gibson was a better post-season pitcher and thinking up reasons that support that?

By Lew

September 14, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Get over yourself MaybeWe’llBeChamps.

By KC

September 14, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

ChampDawg

LaRoche has had a good year. But it’s the first one. Up to this year, his performance has been average at best. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

You talk as though LaRoche has been some mediocre veteran for many years who finally put together put together a half-way decent season. The reality is that LaRoche is only a 3rd year player who has seized his first opportunity to play everyday in a major way and is having not a “good” year, but an outstanding one.

And as far as his first two seasons are concerned… in 2004, 2005 over 775 AB’s he produced the following: .267 AVG., with 33 homers and 123 RBI. To put that in perspective, if you project those numbers down to 550 AB’s you would have 23-HR, 86-RBI, 39-doubles. Let’s take a few of the best Braves hitters to come through Atlanta over the last couple decades and see how they fared when they first came up.

If you the numbers from the following players over their first two seasons in the big leagues and project those numbers (either up or down) to 550 AB’s, you will have the following:

Chipper Jones: .265 AVG. with 24 homers, 90 RBI, 23 doubles.

Andruw Jones: .227 with 25 homers, 90 RBI, 27 doubles

Andres Galarraga: .255 with 15 homers, 65 RBI, 19 doubles

Dale Murphy: .240 with 18 homers, 72 RBI, 20 doubles (had to figure over his first 3 seasons because he only had 141 AB’s over his first two).

Gary Sheffield: .246 with 11 homers, 55 RBI, 24 doubles

A few more… Ron Gant: .260 with 18 homers, 59 RBI, 27 doubles / Jermaine Dye: .259 with 19 homers, 59 RBI, 30 doubles / Javy Lopez: .259 with 25 homers, 70 RBI, 21 doubles (had to figure over first 3 years because he only had 32 AB’s in first 2 seasons.)

Also worth noting… Hank Aaron’s rookie year (in 468 AB’s): .280 with 13 homers, 69 RBI, 27 doubles. He turned out alright didn’t he?

I hope you can see how asinine it is for you to sit back and act like LaRoche is some average player who just got lucky, simply because his first two seasons weren’t all-star caliber.

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Lew: Win Percentages might be a little difficult. Go back to Tommy Bond (I think that was his name). He had 40+ wins in a season with the Braves back in the 1880s or 1870s. Giving him about 70% of the teams total victories. No one is going to match that these days. That was a totally different ERA.

Wins really aren’t a great means of looking at pitchers. Russ Ortiz, for instance, was a “proven winner” before he came to Atlanta. Although, it is rather hard to rack up wins if you’re an awful pitcher. Wins can show you some insight… A starting pitcher can’t get a win unless he pitches at least 5 innings. If he gets it, then he’s kept the team in the game long enough to pull out a victory. So it’s gotta count for something.

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

Era needn’t be capitolized. It reads like E.R.A. which is not what was intended. But whateva

By Lew

September 14, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-What you say about the 1890’s is what I meant with the comment of Hoss Radbourne. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Steve Carlton season I referenced. Carlton was 27-10 for the 1972 Phillies, a team that won only 58 games that season. The only pitcher in my lifetime that won more in a season was Denny McLain in 68 when he won 31 (I don’t remember anyone winning more than 27 anyway). McLain, however was on a World Series team that played Gibby and the Cards in the WS. I think Carlton’s ERA was about 1.34 or something close. I know Gibby posted a lower ERA. Carlton’s team was terrible. I remember him winning two consecutive games by 1-0 (He hit a triple that knocked in the run and a 2-1 game (he hit a HR to win). I look at this as the best single season performance based on how lousy the team was. If he had been on a winning team or one that went to the series, he could easily won 35 games that year.

By KC

September 14, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Sorry, didn’t mean to re-post… I was having trouble posting earlier and never realized that my previous post made it through.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 14, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

everyone is having trouble posting today. how come the sda has no trouble posting? must be able to pull a string when he needs to post. doh! that was insensitive. journalist forgot the sda’s sensitivity to string humor. now, will dwight d eisenhower respond? stringfellow? stringbean? now, baseball game … journalist has tickets for the last series … think the sda will try to stalk this journalist? hard to stalk with a string hanging out of your nose. maybe sda can pull some strings and get good tickets for the mets series - not have to sit by the ramp. okay, folks get ready.

By journalist anti jimmy smith

September 14, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

this journalist believes jimmy smith inhaled too many paint fumes during his life. journalist jimmy still spewing psycho babble on blog. journalist jimmy should seek his psychiatrist very soon.

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

Lew….Did you know Bobby brown and Witney are splitting up? If you knew why didn’t you tell me?

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Lew: Interesting point. I hadn’t thought about the crappy team with an ace and the ace actually getting a lot of wins. I was thinking about Randy Johnson in his last season with the D-Backs. He had a 2 ERA, a perfect game and was 1 game over .500 in his W/L column. But didn’t figure he had a huge percentage of the wins… at least not 70%.

By Cleanuphitter16

September 14, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

We all know the Mets fans are going to flock here like the freakin leafers to Rhode Island in the fall (Family Guy FTW!) It’s to be expected after so many years of waiting. Just try not to feed them and they will go away whenever they get eliminated in October.

Of course if they DO get eliminated they will up their payroll to $150mil+ next season, which will really suck for the Bravos…maybe it would be best if the Mets DID win it all this season and stood pat on payroll. Give us a chance to catch up on $$$ a little (new owners permitting of course.)

Bah, whatever. I personally can live with a “down” year if it means mixing the team attitude up and reinjecting some energy into the team and fanbase next season. That “new” spark that comes from a winning season and making the playoffs has seemed lost for several years, to be quite honest. Think about it…if this makes these kids hungry to win in a way they hadn’t known before, we could see a special season next year. I look foward to some changes for the better on ‘07.

By KC

September 14, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, Good afternoon!

Yeah, ya know in response to champdawgs assertion about LaRoche, I started looking at the first couple seasons of some great players, and I’ve found some fascinating stuff. I actually just looked up 10 Hall-of-Famers (or future HOF’ers) at random. I didn’t cherry-pick these. Here’s what I found… again, chosen at random:

• Babe Ruth, in his first 3 seasons in (361 AB’s) hit only 9 homeruns. Over his first four seasons in 678 AB’s, he hit only 20. Amazing.

• Barry Bonds 5 years to establish himself as an all-star.

• Mike Schmidt hit under .200 over his first 2 seasons (in 401 AB’s).

• It took Roberto Clemente 7 seasons before he finally put up all-star numbers.

• Joe Carter, didn’t put up big numbers until his 4th year.

• Albert Pujols is amazing. He is one of the very rare instances of a hitter crushing major league pitching from day-1. The more I look at the early years of players, the more I realize how amazing his rookie year was.

• Ken Griffey Jr’s first season was unimpressive. His second year was very good, but he didn’t become a big-time run producer until his 3rd or 4th year in the league.

• Ryan Sandberg, didn’t start to impress until his 3rd full season.

• Jim Thome didn’t impress until his 5th year in the league (the 2nd year in which he got significant playing time).

• Mike Piazza was another instance of an atypical start to a career. He didn’t look great his 1st year in the league, but that was only 69 at-bats. His second year he exploded.

Of the 10 random HOF players I looked up, only 2 of them got off to great starts. The rest of them took at least 2 or 3 seasons to establish themselves as stars. Of all the great Braves hitters I looked up, only David Justice, Bob Horner, and Fred McGriff came out of the gate quickly. Chipper, Andruw, Dale Murphy, Ron Gant, Gary Sheffield, Andres Galarraga, Javy Lopez, and a few others, all started slowly.

The overwhelming norm seems to be that it takes at least 2-3 seasons for star players to establish themselves. This should give us all hope that what Adam LaRoche is doing (in his 3rd season) is very much for real, and pour some water on the Jeff Francoeur critics. It should also give us a greater appreciation for what Brian McCann is doing in his first full season.

By KC

September 14, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

NLCHAMPS:

As you may know, Bobby and Whitney reside in Atlanta. Therefore, this whole situation is hits very close to home, and I think I speak for all of us when I say that this is an emotional subject for us Atlantans. We appreciate your sensitivity as we all try to cope with this very difficult situation.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 14, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

not a very good effort from sda/stinky who professes to be a genius. maybe some of your other identities can chip in and help. hard to match wits when it’s so dim in there, huh? now, grinch … know any shoestring humor? apparently the shoestring is a sensitive issue for sda. thank goodness for velcro, right?

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

I’m dissapointed in this year, but I don’t know that it can be entirely blamed on payroll. The payroll is at 80 Million. That’s not really bottom rung. It’s due to poor, poor performance from the pitching. Had the pitching staff averaged 3 runs allowed a game, we would have been 13-14 in June. Had they maintained that level of production the whole season, we’d be 90-52. We relied on crap. Thomson, who I thought would be much better. Sosa, who I knew was going to be awful. And then the slew of slugs we brought in to fill their places. I think we can compete and win with a payroll of 80 million. We just need better pitching. Chuck James should stay. Smoltz should Stay. Hampton can’t be moved. Hudson should go. Davies should be in the minors. And HoRam and Cormier can compete or be traded for better. Obviously, if those two are traded for better, more would have to be included. I think HoRam would fetch more, but won’t be tradable until Spring Training after he’s proven healthy.

I’m looking forward to this offseason though. I wanna see what happens.

By NLCHAMPS

September 14, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Very funny comeback KC. It’s nice to see a braves fan that’s not wound up so tight.

By journalist anti jimmy smith

September 14, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith now spewing psycho babble about shoestrings - Oh the humanity!

By journalist jimmy smith

September 14, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

understand the sda tried out for the string section in his high school band but was told there was no room for a nose fiddler. that’s why sda took up blogging. imagine the fearsome 6’10” 300 pound sda standing next to dob at the ballpark. personal hygiene (or lack thereof) would no doubt be a tip-off to our wurlitzer winner that the sda was in proximity. can you imagine a physical confrontation with the fearsome sda? shrieking like a little girl and flailing away … tough guys don’t blog it sda, they deliver it. sda probably soiled himself when he saw dob. now, will we hear from stringbean? string quartet? string cheese? blog trivia: which 5 bloggers comprise the sda string quartet?

By 10-7-4

September 14, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

Holy Moley I made it back!!! Greetings again to all you fine folks in blogland. It’s been awhile. For some time I was not sure of ever making a reappearance here. In fact the issue of my reappearance anywhere was in grave doubt. But like some guy called Sammy Clemons said “the report of my demise is greatly exaggerated.” Boy, do I have a tale to tell. I also may have a tail, but that’s another matter. While in Australia, with Drunky Clint, in search of the ‘red eared slider—we were taken hostage be the Kiss Uranus Goodbye society. They are a group of local ‘left fielders’ who believe that since we kicked Pluto out of our planetary numbers that Uranus is next. They gave us a concoction to drink, that was supposed to knock us out, but when Drunky Clint asked for a refill, they thought he was ‘of a higher power’, and decided to keep us for good luck. When word of the demise of ‘The Crocodile Hunter’ reached them, they thought it was an omen fron the powers that be, and let us go. Drunky Clint wanted to stay but was forced out at the point of a spear. Anyway, I’m sure glad to be back—missed you all.[well most, all]

By journalist jimmy smith

September 14, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

now, baseball … journalist guy curtright is reporting that john smoltz tweaked his groin. let’s hope he was not on camera. why is smoltz so set on pitching his next turn? did he not see kyle davies hurt his own groin? horacio ramirez earlier? and of course, skip caray? groins are not to be tweaked.

By TennesseePaul

September 14, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

KC: Ruth may not be a good one to start with. I believe he started his career as a pitcher. So, I’d say he’s still impressive. How many pitchers have hit that many home runs in their careers, let alone first 350 AB. You could have added McGwire. He didn’t hit for high average, but he holds the rookie record of 49 homers, and that was with taking the last few weeks off when his son was born. He was also skinny as a rail. He was a pitcher for USC.

Pujols is just the best. That’s all there is to it. Every single season he hits over .300, 40+ homers, 100+ runs scored, 100+ RBIs. His strikeouts get fewer and fewer. His walks get more and more. He’s an assassin at the plate. It’s just incredible. His Homer totals actually improve as well. Had he not been injured this season, he’d be right there or above Howard. What a machine!
Piazza is amazing offensively. I can’t believe he’s doing as well as he is in San Diego. I was expecting a massive decline. Something along the lines of .215 with 12 homers. Not because of lack of talent, just figured it’s the end of his career and he’s playing in the largest park in the league. But he sure cranked it out. Terrible on the defense though.

By Stinky

September 14, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, you sure like to egg SJA on, don’t you? Why? (And I’m not SJA.)

By David O'Brien

September 14, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

New blog posted. Cliff’s Notes will be provided for SDA.

By ncscoots

September 14, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

TPaul is right, Pujols is rather obviously an alien, no human is that good all the time. Glad to see some corroboration on first-year stats for players who became much better later…I posted some of that stuff a few weeks ago, but don’t think anyone saw it. Francoeur is not Pujols, but I don’t think he’s Dave Kingman, either. Nor do I think McCann is a career .330 hitter, so let’s not butcher the kid next year if he “falls off” to .315!

By Lew

September 14, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

NLWE WISH WE WERE CHAMPS-I didn’t tell you about Whitney because you are basically irrelevant. I also didn’t think you were a drug dealer so you wouldn’t care. Was I wrong?

By Lew

September 14, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

NL WE WISH WE WERE CHAMPS-I didn’t tell you about Whitney because you are basically irrelevant. I also figured since you weren’t a drug dealer, you wouldn’t care. Was I wrong?

By Skippy

September 14, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

this journalist

By b

September 14, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

10/7/04: way off the wacky tobaccy there homeboy and join us on the planet earth

By Head Coach

September 14, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Tom A. Hawk , you are hereby annointed king of the idiocracy. Congratulations ! Rule supreme with your foam tomahawk and Forrest Gump IQ.

By Tom A. Hawk

September 14, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

Wondered where you went, Coach! Thought I’d find you hiding over here where no one is left to challenge your Brave-skewed view of reality. I won’t bother you, though — we have enough old, gnarly, washed-up, burned-out has-beens polluting the fresh blog. Enjoy!

By journalist jimmy smith

September 15, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

I sure is one little, co cksuckin’ Son of a Bi tch!

By jim

September 15, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

lets face it what has made the braves so good for so long was pitching and defense. We do not have the pitching other than Smoltz and James. Smoltz despite his recent struggles is still one of the top 20 in the league and is cheap. Its too early to toot James too high but I can hope. Our defense up the middle is shaky, even though Renteria had a good year he and Giles do not cover enough ground. Left field is a sore spot as well. I would love to see us acquire two starters, a left fielder and get more quickness at short and second. If we were like the METS and Yankees we could just buy our team but we are trying to bring some home grown talent in. I love Thurman but he Giles, Renteria, Ramerez, Diaz, Langerhans, Thompson should bring us what we need if nothing else free up some money to sign Soriano for a left fielder, hopefully Hampton can be one of the two starters we need, I think Oscar could be a fifth starter or Cormier. We need to resign Wickman and Baez but keep our eyes out for a good YOUNG closer. If you go back on the last 14 years what has kept us from winning more titles is the closer and OFFEnse, we have a HR ladden offense right now but we need speed and singles, doubles type hitters. Adam is going to be an All Star first baseman, he is not fast but a golden glove and becomming an excellent hitter. AJ is fine I just dont think we can keep him. For all the complaining I hear about him there is not a team that would not want him, his season was fine until the waiver thing happened. I love Edgar but he just does not cover enough ground. Finally I truly believe we need a better batting coach, how many 2-0, 3-0 counts have we watched our hitters swing at, several times when we our guys get walked two times in a row the next guy comes up and swings at the first pitch, even Brian MC did it several times this year only to pop up or ground into a dp I love the Braves but we need to get back to our roots, pitching, defense and speed.

By uncle pee pot

September 18, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this

Southern jackass is afraid of uncle peepot,I got him running scared,he knows this old man will kick his a$$.Journalist jimmy is my friend and is the best journalist on his blog.journalist jimmy’s friend and my nephew Adam the gay blade says hi to you Journalist jimmy and also my cousins the two homo boys,jimmy they are back from their honeymoon and say they misds you.they say they also miss the southern jacka$$.uncle pee pot has spoken.

By uncle pee pot

September 18, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

Southern jackass is afraid of uncle peepot,he knows that uncle pee pot has made him look like a coward on this blog,he continues to run from uncle pee pot.my nephew Adam the gay blade SAYS TO TELL JOURNALIST Jimmy hi and that journalist jimmy is the best journalist on this blog.also my 2 nephews the 2 homo boys are back from their honeymoon and they say to tell southern jackass that they too miss him and want to show him their wedding pictures.sja is full of $hit.uncle pee pot has spoken.

By 2homo boys

September 18, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

Hey Southern Jackass,this is your 2 friends the 2 homo boys,we are back from our honeymoon and we had a great time.wish you could have been with us.we miss you SJA.come to us SJA and let us suck your pee hole.you will enjoy it.

By David

September 20, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

I honestly feel that the only reason why the Braves have struggled this season was because of the departure of Leo Mezzanine. In the spring, the Braves couldn’t implement Camp Leo like they had done for the past 14 seasons and the starting rotation which came out of the starting gate of the season was just not good enough to compete with the other clubs. Leo would have made sure that we had they right hurlers throwing in games and nursing the pitching staff along and so forth. Without Mazzanine’s watchful eye, the Braves had really no one to guide the pitchers along and keep them focused and inspired to perform at their best. I really blame the Braves aweful season on the Braves failure to keep Leo Mezzanine in an Atlanta Braves uniform. The season unraveled shortly after Leo’s departure and the pitching staff has been reeling ever since.