Braves

By Tony

August 12, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this

Bobby talked to the team before yesterday’s game to tell them they will need an extended winning streak to have any hopes of making the playoffs. So then the next night he and JS send out a 28 y/o career minor leaguer to face Ben Sheets. Talk about mixed messages. Damn…

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

yeah i dont get the choices made for replacement staters…..i love the braves but i feel like it will only get worse-

By MBATL

August 12, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

Who would you guys prefer we had sent out? I just don’t see any options, but maybe you do.

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 08:11 PM | Link to this

only kind of momentum is bad momentum with this team

By nathan

August 12, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

DOB

Cecil Fielder was the answer to the Aflac Trivia question tonight.

Then Sutton made a comment about it being a shame that Him and Prince have “severed ties”. Any idea what that’s all about.

WOW! Swings just like his dad, doesn’t he?

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

acquire someone off of waivers? midseason pitching coach change? make good offseason moves

By nathan

August 12, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this

not sure why Oscar is still on this team. HE’S HORRIBLE!

By Tomas

August 12, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this

Why didnt the Braves call up Anthony Lerew to start tonights ballgame, he was 4-2 with a 1.93 ERA in his last 8 starts.

By nathan

August 12, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this

I was thinkin the same thing Thomas.

The only thing I can think of is that they (Bobby and JS) don’t wanna “Devine” him. In other words ruin the kid mentally before he’s ready. From what I’ve been told and read, he had a tough time of it at AAA earlier this year, and didn’t start pitching better until he was demoted to AA. So, I’m guessing they are in no hurry to rush him up.

Though as I stated on the other blog, I’m guessing he’ll get called up in September. So why not do it 2 weeks early? Maybe DOB knows.

By Tomas

August 12, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this

DOB who has the greatest fielding percentage as a team in the national league.

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

another bad trade, cormier+ oscar for johnny estrada

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2004-10-18-cecil-fielder-troubles_x.htm

nathan that link is some insight into the prince/cecil fielder thing

By nathan

August 12, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

supergrass

Thank You….good story. I suppose I should clarify that! LOL. The story itself is pretty sad. But the article was good. I was not aware of any of that.

By Tomas

August 12, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

Could Villa real start.

By MBATL

August 12, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

ditto that, Nathan. Supergrass, thanks for the link. That is one sad story.

As to acquiring pitching, sounds good if you say it fast. But the pitchers on the waiver wire are there for a reason; they’re either no good, or have big contracts, or both. Livan Hernandez was probably the best option, but I couldn’t see us paying him $7 mil next year for a longshot at a wild card this year… and his era is over 5.

I think we need to stock up on pitching… but to do that, we’re gonna have to give up more than Giles.

By nathan

August 12, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Thomas, the only thing I would want him to start is his car! As he’s driving as far away from anything associated with the Atlanta Braves! LOL!

He’s pitching well tonight because it was a 5-1 deficit when he came in. If it would’ve been a 1 run game, he would’ve COMPLETELY melted down. He SUCKS. If he’s still a Brave next year, I’m gonna puke!

By Tomas

August 12, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

If you avoid the game against the phillis he has 16.1 IP and a 2.30 ERA.

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

nathan your welcome. i dont recall it being a national story, but i live in FL so i heard about it before. its amazing how the cant find Cecil Fielder.

By MEB

August 12, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this

nathan… no need to be so rash in your judgements. The Vulture is not exactly “horrible.” I would say that Sosa, Reitsma, and Dan Kolb would meet that definition. I think that Oscar would have been a better choice for a spot start tonight.

How about that “P” player, Pete Orr.

By Tomas

August 12, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

Nathan what about the game in tampa it was a tie game, and held it that way for five innings.

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 08:45 PM | Link to this

tomas, that appearance in tampa was oscars last great outing

By nathan

August 12, 2006 08:45 PM | Link to this

rash in my judgements?

I’ve been saying that since April. He, like EVERY OTHER HAS BEEN or NEVER WILL BE, that was added to this bullpen, don’t neccassarily SUCK. But they are ALL inconsistant enough to make you hate all of them. Right when you think you can trust one of them, they implode. Like MBATL said about waiver wire pitchers, the same thing can be said for has beens who can’t find jobs into February and some how end up on our roster.

It used to be fine to aquire 1 or 2 of these guys in the off season and try and “recharge” an old worthless pitcher (aging veteran, career minor leaguer, guy coming off of serious injury, etc…).

But to have about 10 of those guys on our pitching staff. No wonder we can’t play good ball for more than a week at a time this year. Nice job, JS!! Hell, even when we were on the “hot streak”, it had NOTHING to do with the pitching. It was ALL offense.

Maybe, it was mean or harsh to say Oscar sucks. But, I’m not convinced that I wasn’t speaking the truth. LOL!

By Tomas

August 12, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

I agree with you nathan the problem of the Braves this year has been inconsistancy.

By Thomas

August 12, 2006 08:54 PM | Link to this

Supergrass that was the last outing he go five days of rest.

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this

well if villareal needs 5 days in between good pitching i suppose someone should consider him becoming a starter….. someone has gotta take the ball in place of the 3 starters on the DL

By krath

August 12, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this

I have to add my 2 cents for Oscar starting a few games. He’s done a few stints in long relief and seems to do pretty well at that. If Oscar can keep you in the game for 5 innings, you can cross your fingers that the rest of the pen might not implode.

I hate losing the game in the 8th like the Braves did the other night, but I hate being down by 4-5 runs before the mid innings more.

By MEB

August 12, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

Very sad story involving the Fielder family. I love the comments from Trump casinos and their failure to accept any blame for repeatedly extending such ridiculously high credit to a very sick man. Happens every day to people of all income levels.

By nathan

August 12, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

krath

He of the 4.60 ERA? The guy who can’t go 2 innings without giving up a run or 2 or 3!

you said:

I hate losing the game in the 8th like the Braves did the other night, but I hate being down by 4-5 runs before the mid innings more.

What about Oscar’s 4.60 ERA tells you that we wouldn’t be down by 4-5 runs before the mid innings if he started a game?

Not trying to be an A$$, just asking.

By Brent

August 12, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this

In the old days (‘91, ‘04), The Braves used to grab proven veterans, guys who’ve pitched well in the past, but have little left in the tank, to try and fill in in a pinch.

They grabbed Rick Mahler in ‘91, and he had a couple of good starts for us. They signed Shane Reynolds in ‘04, and he gave the team a couple of decent starts early in the year, before better help can be found.

But now, they’re calling on the likes of Jason Shiell - and giving him 3 chances! - when they’re in a pinch. That is one of the largest differences between today and the past. I’m sure a lot of it has to do with payroll, but it just seems so shocking to see the Braves continually trot out these “never weres” as opposed to “has beens”.

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

i know we all rip orr but hes been good tonight, i love his hustle. he went from .196 to .216 with his 3 hits tonight-round of applaudes. giles is 0-3 tonight,hopefully he can come through with the bases loaded

By nathan

August 12, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

Dead on Brent. I agree.

We got lucky with the likes of Chris Hammond and Jaret Wright. Maybe a mix of Motivated players, and Leo working with the vets a little better than the young guys? I’m not sure. But like I said before. I have no problem with a couple of reclamation projects a season. I just don’t want 10 of them! I’m sure Bobby and JS didn’t either. But your not left with much choice when you don’t find the pieces you need in the offseason. Sure woulda, coulda been nice to have Wickman all year.

By CRAZY BASTARD

August 12, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

COFFEE?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?I LOVE COFFEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOB’s THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By CRAZY BASTARD

August 12, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

I HERE BY NOMINATE DOB AS THE NEXT JUAN VALDEZ!

HERE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOB-DOB-DOB-DOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this

good frenchy with the diving catch, bad frenchy over running ball allowing runner to advance, good frechy outfield assist clark out at the plate- bad frenchy struck out swinging -ugggg

By Moe

August 12, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

Prince Fielder would be an excellent addition to the Braves bullpen.

By Calvin

August 12, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

I will never understand how Major League players that do not think. Here is a situation where a pitcher is obviously having trouble throwing strikes and what does Francoeur instantly do? Swings at three straight pitches, two of which were way out of the strike zone. Just terrible.

By Tonight on TBS

August 12, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this

Fifty First Pitches (2004)

Frenchy (Adam Sandler) is a skilled outfielder with a terrific arm. Unfortunately, he has a short term memory problem: whenever he steps in the batters box, he thinks he has a two strike count. So he swings at the first pitch over and over and over again. Can Frenchy’s maid (Drew Barrymore) help find a cure? With Rob Schneider as “P” player, Pete Orr.

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

yeah MOE, another fatso

By nathan

August 12, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Go right ahead and put Baez into that “crazy, fun” unpredictable cast of bullpen pitchers (btw, I use the word “pitcher” very, very loosely! LOL)

Awesome one night, than he looks like Mark Wohlers, Rick Ankiel, and Dan Kolb all wrapped into one! It’s REALLY tough to watch. I’m still watching though! So maybe I have the problem! LMAO!

By krath

August 12, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

Nathan

Not trying to be an a*s, but I’m not a numbers guy. Did you see Barry’s numbers before he started the game tonight? It’s like over 6.00. So I suppose he was a bit over his numbers tonight huh?? 4.5 whatever beats a six 6 doesn’t it? I also know a guy can have a bad outing and give up 4 or 5 in a couple of innings and be effective the next 5 appearances and his ERA can be high. I’m not saying that is Oscar…. I’m just saying if a player is only judged by his raw numbers….sometimes the story isn’t told.

I’m not saying Jason Marquis is a great pitcher by any means but his ERA is over 5 but Larussa left him in TWICE this year to yield over 10 runs…(or something in that neighborhood)

Oscar ain’t the next Roger Clemens…. but I’m not exactly sure where the next starter is coming from….. do you?

By Calvin

August 12, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this

I just noticed Frenchy got double switched lol. What’s up with that?

By nathan

August 12, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

I’m kinda like Lloyd Christmas in Dumb and Dumber.

Here’s an example of a question he’d ask DOB:

“So, DOB what’s the odds of the Braves winning the wild card? 1 in a 100 or maybe it’s 1 in a 1000?”

DOB’s response:

“Yeah, Lloyd, it’s more like 1 in a million”

and of course Lloyd’s response would be:

“So you’re saying there’s a CHANCE?!?”

That pretty much sums up my “optimism”.

By Bill

August 12, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

The double switch was due to the short bench. Once Bobby pinch ran for McCann, the only position player left was Aybar. Without the double switch, the pitcher would have been in the third spot in the 9th inning. By putting Baez in the 6th spot, Bobby kept Diaz in the line up in the 9th spot (where he singled for his second hit of the game).

Even in Bobby had not used Pena as a pinch runner which necessitated bringing in Pratt, it was a sensible move. Diaz was a much better choice to be in the 3rd spot in the 9th over Pena, Pratt or Aybar. Also, unless the game went into extra innings (or the Brewers scored a bunch in the top of the 9th), neither McCann or Francouer would have come up in the 9th — they would have been the 8th & 9th batters of the inning — by which time the Braves would have already finished a comeback. (Of course, the comeback never came — but the point is that the move was to keep Diaz’s bat in the game since it was highly unlikely that Francouer would bat again in the game.)

Fairly basic managerial strategy.

By TennesseePaul

August 12, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

Stinking Francoeur. There’s smart agressive. And there’s dumb agressive. Smart agressive was displayed by everyone prior to Francoeur. Dumb agressive was Francoeur. It’s like he’s going all in with 8 and 2 off suit. Was he not watching McCann’s at bat? Did he not see that junk McCann didn’t swing at? Why? Why did he swing at that Junk? We might have won had it not been for that. He’d been up there with a 2-1 count and the bases loaded. Instead he handed him the game.

Whatever though. This loss is on the belly of Barry. That guy is no good. No good at all.

I was impressed with Pete Orr today! Loved his hustle. He always hustles. Usually it’s futile, but at least he’s doing it.

DOB: All this talk of Music the past few days. Have you heard Matt Costa? He’s not a bad singer/song writer.

By nathan

August 12, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

Krath

I feel your pain, and like you, I have NO IDEA where the next “starter” is going to come from. IMO it shouldn’t be Oscar though.

You are right about the “stats” not telling the whole story. Especially for relievers. But like I said before, it’s not neccassarily about these guys not being good enough, or not having good enough “stuff”.

My assumption is that most guys that play pro-ball, in any league, have the “stuff” to succeed. You don’t get here without it. But it’s the guys that can do it consistantly night after night that have successful seasons. The really special players that can turn those one or two special seasons into 10 or 15 of them end up in Cooperstown.

Everybody is making a case for Smoltz to make it to the HOF. I can’t agree more. But I also remember the Smoltz of the eary 90’s (regular season - post season was alway good), who would go somthing like 2-12 in the first half and then go 12-2 in the second half. He didn’t put it “all” together in a full season until 1996 when he won 24 games and the cy young. So even the great ones have to “put it all togehter” on a consistant basis before they are considered GREAT.

Jorge Sosa is a prime example of this. NOBODY is ever gonna question his stuff. But he has yet learn to harness it or find a consistant release point or approach. If he ever would find that, he’d be untouchable. The guy’s got electric “stuff”. Just doesn’t know how to use it.

That’s just my opinion, though.

By Bill

August 12, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this

Hmmm…Pete Orr comes up with a chance to hit a game-tying bottom of the 9th inning home run — a home run that would have completed hitting for the cycle. The odds of his being in this situation: incredibly low. The odds of him hitting the home run: even lower. What happens? Whiff….was he swinging for the fences or what (I wasn’t watching the game).

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this

hi BILL, fairly basic managerial strategy you say of the frenchy switch but i was hoping it was bobby busting some balls- trying to send the kid a message not to blow sooo hard….. striking out for what- the 99th time in 114 games this year

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 10:11 PM | Link to this

i watched the game, i didnt think orr was swinging for the fences

By TennesseePaul

August 12, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

I would agree that the next starter shouldn’t be Villarreal either. He might be able to handle it, but it isn’t certain. And you can have that level of uncertainty from just about anyone. Besides, it’s almost a guarantee that the next starter isn’t going to make it past 4 innings at which point we’ll need Villarreal. I think Cormier will do alright. He did in his other starts. At least when he pitched, he didn’t totally burry the team.

By Thomas

August 12, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

Bill the only thing i would have done different was to put Aibar to run and have Pena in the bench.

By nathan

August 12, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

No, Orr didn’t swing for the fenses. He was just late on a fastball!

By Bill

August 12, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

Sorry supergrass — I think you are just wishfully thinking. While I agree that some ball busting might be in order, I expect it was just a routine strategic move. Bobby would have felt stupid if the score had been 7-5 with Laroche & Thorman on base and only having Willy Aybar & his broken hand to pinch hit for Baez.

(I know many people think Bobby is stupid but he couldn’t have missed this move — it was straight out of baseball strategy 101. You consider this type of switch when (a) you’ve already used a bunch of pinch hitters; and (b) you’ve had a long inning and can keep a bench player in the game for an extra at bat.)

By Bill

August 12, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

Thomas —

Good point about possibly using Aybar to pinch run. However, even with Pena on the bench, I would have still put Baez in the 6 hole since Diaz provided the best possible opportunity to get a base runner in the 9th.

supergrass & nathan

thanks for the info on Orr. I didn’t figure he was swinging for the fences…I noticed the situation and would fallen over if he had hit the HR. Unless I am mistaken, it has been something like 20 years since a Brave hit for the cycle. My recollection is that Albert Hall was the last Brave to do it.

By Thomas

August 12, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

Right now the Braves have four starters including Barry, who would be the other starter Franklin, Cormier, Lerew, or maybe they hear my wishes and give Villa real a chance, he is pitching in those game any way entering in the third inning or fourth.

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

bill,totally agree with your explaination of the move. but tp, bc, chipper or someone needs to teach Francoeur some plate discipline, talk to him about situational hitting. he has 21 hr and 80 rbi’s but he can have much more, even in his second year. maybe he can harness that raw talent with some tough love

By nathan

August 12, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

You are correct Bill. Albert Hall! LOL.

What a blast from the past. Him and Odibie McDowell, Dion James. Man did we have some good outfielders in the 80’s! Yuck.

Hey anybody out there remember that Sacrifice Fly that Jerry Willard hit in the 91 WS? The one where it got about 30 feet behind 1B and he was waving for it to go deeper. That was awesome.

Sorry for the stroll down memory lane, but I have the feeling that that is all we’ll have……good memories.

By Thomas

August 12, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

Bill but Diaz entered to pinch hit in the eight with two runners on and got a Basehit and an RBI, who would have you put to pinch hit in that inning.

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

your right bill - Albert Hall was the last Brave to hit for the cycle 1987. stat of the day right there! FIRE!

By Thomas

August 12, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

Willy Mo Pena had an opportunity today he hit a Homer, triple, and double, but then struck out, a single away of doing it.

By Bill

August 12, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this

Thomas —

With 2 on and nobody out in the 8th, I definitely would have brought in my best remaining bat — Diaz. At that point, it would have been too hard to predict how the 8th would have ended. For example, suppose you use Pena (or Pratt) to pinch hit and they make an out followed by an out from Orr & Giles. The chances of Diaz being useful in the 9th would have been slim.

With 2 on and nobody out in the 8th, the best strategy is play for a really big inning and hope to score some runs, get more base runners & hope that Andruw, McCann, Francouer & Laroche get RBI opportunities in the 8th. They came fairly close.

The nightmare for this type of game (i.e., one where the start fails so that lots of pinch hitters get used early) is to end up in extra innings with absolutely no bench — but that is a chance you’ve got to take.

By krath

August 12, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this

Nathan

Oscar would only be a bandaid. The Braves are not going to the playoffs this year. They are playing out the string. I think it’s pretty obvious that the Braves are not going to invest another dime or low minor leaguer for a waver wire pitcher.

The question is, do you pull lotsa pitchers up from the minors and give them a shot or do you stay the course and develop them according to plan?

I don’t have a real opinion on the above scenario because I’m not privy to the inner workings of the Braves development plan. I do think I know what I see happening the rest of this season. I think what you see is what you get. No more help on the way.

So in my opinion, I would rather see Oscar start a game or two until a pitcher that actually fits into next years plan comes off the DL. Shiell and Barry don’t seem to be solutions as successful fill ins.

We’re talking this year, not what is or is not going to be done in the off season. Hey but who knows…. maybe there will be an unknown pitcher get a September callup and show us something.

Oh …..about feeling my pain….. I wasn’t aware that I was displaying any pain. I thought my comments were pretty calm and logical. I assure you my pain ended when I accepted the reality that this years prospects for playoffs were practically nil. I’m just thinking in a real and practical sense, not wishing for pie in the sky.

Speaking of pie…… :)

By nathan

August 12, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this

krath

maybe “pain” wasn’t a good word to use. more like, confusion over what to wish for.

I also am torn on what to do with the young guys like Lerew.

I meant what I said before about mentally ruining a guy early in his career. I wouldn’t be shocked, no matter how “tough” Chipper and everybody says he is, if Devine never has a solid career after the crap he was thrust into last year, obviously way too soon. Kevin McGlinchy also comes to mind. I’m not sure he ever recovered from Robin Ventura’s “grand slam” single in the NLCS. We never really heard from him again after that, did we? Rick Ankiel also comes to mind. Though, he obviously had much BIGGER issues.

So I agree with you (at least I think I’m agreeing with you - LOL!). Just “ride the storm out” and go get em’ next year. Let the kids develop at the pace they need. Though if the Braves are thoroughly out of the race, I guess there would be no harm in bringing them up to see what they got. At that point there wouldn’t be any pressure on them to “continue the winning ways”.

I’m at the point where I believe that if we don’t have the money to buy better pitching this offseason (assuming there will be something better than what we’ve got to buy!), we should move some of the offensive guys for pitching. Maybe LaRoche, (we’ve got Thorman?), Giles to me is obvious. JS really has to think about Andruw. If we CAN’T resign him at a reasonible rate, he has to go. As far as I’m concerned, McCann and Francoeur should be the only untouchables. Francoeur is based purely on the possibility that he figures out the strike zone eventually.

I’ll quit babbling now.

By Thomas

August 12, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

hey in your opinion which is the best left fielder rookie in the mayors.

By nathan

August 12, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

DOB

I was reading over my last post and realized that I saw a point that you might JUMP on me for. LOL!

I mentioned “moving” LaRoche for pitching due to the fact that we might not have enough money to “purchase” pitching or take on more payroll in a trade.

I realize that LaRoche doesn’t make that much money this year and probably won’t make that much next year. So Simma Don Na! Before you even get going! LOL.

I was thinking more along the lines of that being a “talent for talent” trade with somebody. Not that there is a heck of a lot of teams that want to give away pitching for a 1B, but you never know. LaRoche’s stock should be pretty high after this season. Somebody would want him.

Anyways, just thought I would clarify that before you scolded me! LOL

It’s getting scary when I can see the future in how you would respond to a post!

Good night all!

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

THOMAS, i dont know who opinion you wanted but my guess for best rookie LF is Andre Ethier

By gotigers72

August 12, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

Nice Steeler’s Wheels “Stuck in the Middle With You” analogy there DOB. Now I’ve got that song stuck in my head. An earworm I believe they call it. Not a bad song to have for an earworm though. Could be worse.

By Thomas

August 12, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

thanks

By tyyosh

August 12, 2006 11:05 PM | Link to this

Francoeur bashers,

He is not perfect, but what a talent we have and if he had come up with another team we would all be screaming about how the Braves could have missed getting him. Can you name anyone else who could have thrown out that runner from where and how he caught the fly ball tonight? Anyone else of our last 20 years who could come up from AA and immediately average 100 RBI over a full season with multiple late inning/game winning hits, who at 22 combined this amount of offense, defense, and innate competitive drive? I can already see his game evolving. Not every AB, but over time, you see him getting more patient. Also look at his last two big hits - triple over FIRST, double to RIGHT. Now beginning to show opposite field power. How long before he starts being Dale Murphy and blasting opposite field shots like crazy? Then how will they pitch him? It seems like we all are jaded by his HS exploits. Seems like every time he does not get the big hit, the critics pounce.

We forget he just finished year 1. Think of where his game is going to be in 2 years, if he keeps learning and improving…

By Thomas

August 12, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

and best Centerfield rookie

By Andy

August 12, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

I agree with you MEB. What’s the deal with all of these famous ex sport stars getting real all at once about gambling. Barkley admitted to having a gambling problem and has lost millions—but he said he had enough money to “handle” it(not for long)—Daley said he has lost 60 million gambling—I heard an interview with one of his exhandlers who said gambling was 10 times worse for him than his drinking—and now cecil fielder. Man I am glad these guys are coming out—or at least these stories are because of all the gamblings on espn etc(and the gambling craze online)—it really can f* up people’s lives and you don’t hear too much about it. And with the big youth movement with the online thing and all that—it seems to me to be a very dangerous trend. Especially with all the media and electronic games and all the A.D.D. kids and all that stuff—the sensorally overloaded kids—being raised by TV and such. Seems like a really bad combination to me. Thanks for whoever brought this up.

By krath

August 12, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

There’s no doubt that hard decisions will have to be made in the off season. If we keep ALL the established talent we have. (think current offensive lineup)then due to payroll constraints…. we’re pretty much locked into the pitchers we have on our 40 man roster. In fact… if the Rubics cube that is Mike Hampton’s contract kicks in at a higher level….maybe we have to dump someone just to pay Hampton’s salary without being able to relize any benefit from the dump other than PAYING Hampton’s salary. (appologies to DOB… I think he explained the Hampton contract in depth about a month to six weeks ago. He also said we should remember because there would be a quiz…. I already forgot :( )

The single biggest issue I see this off season is the Andruw Jones situation. John Schuerholz HAS to have some indication of what to expect from Liberty as far as payroll is concerned. He’s already voiced the opinion that he doesn’t see a significant change in payroll. He also has to have an idea of what it will take to resign Andruw. If he feels he can do it and not hamstring the Braves payroll flexibility for the next 3-5 years then go for it! If he feels certain the Braves can’t afford Andruw after this season…. he should move him.

I know it sounds like over simplification but it’s really not. You keep him, all is well. If you can’t, move him while you can get some return instead of letting him walk away at next season’s end with a draft choice.

By David O'Brien

August 12, 2006 11:20 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, I have heard that Costa dude. Good stuff. Don’t have the CD, but listened on the headphones at Tower.

Would someone due me a favor at put the parent controls on your son’s laptop. Your son, the insipid basta@, aka the adolescent basta#@, aka the irrelevent basta% trying desperately to get someone to acknowledge his lame, obsessive posts?

Thanks. And with that, all the rest of you adults, I’m going to drive home. Might even stop for a cup of coffee if I can find a Starbucks open on my route home. There will be adults in there, I’m sure. Because a lot of adults drink coffee.

By supergrass

August 12, 2006 11:21 PM | Link to this

best centerfield rookie is tough- i have no idea, only rookie cf coming to mind is reggie abercrombie and his #’s arent impressive

By flbravesgirl

August 12, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

You know, I really do like Francoeur and think he’s going to be a very good player. But HOW CAN HE SWING AT THAT GARBAGE?! I get that he’s an aggressive hitter but does he have no idea of the strike zone at all? Does he need his eyesight checked? Arrrgghh!

Sorry for the yelling, fellow bloggers, but I had to vent.

By Rodger

August 12, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this

I love Frenchy, but doggone, once in a while make em throw strikes! Andruw walks on 4, so why swing at the first 2, both balls. Bobby & TP should have both been screaming this before he got to the plate.

By Rodger

August 12, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB-I’m sure we know the answer, but how about Paula Abdul? The tie, again, to the Braves being “two steps forward, two steps back”?

By Andy

August 12, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this

Back to baseball—AJ will not be moved ever. Where are you going to find an elite player who has showed loyality before/plays everyday/and still should be the best fielder at his postion(which is one of the most important in the game—saves a run or so a game)for another 3-5 years/could possibly be in the 600-700 range of homers(maybe more)/is coming INTO his hitting prime/and on a team that really struggles develope hitters(yes Brain is great but that is his fathers doing more than the braves staff of hitting coaches—look at frenchy—completly flying by the seat of his pants—chipper is a Don Baylor product—Giles is good but alittle stuck in his thing not situational—Langerhans is streaky like the rest, as well as Andruw// point is there are not alot of 30 homers 100 plus rbi guys down on the farm—with the kind of defense—only Andruw Jones plays Andruw Jones defense—even with the lolly gag throws to second sometimes)Andruw can now veto a trade. So my thoughts are no. Andruw will play out 2007 and either sign a huge 100 milion plus contract somewhere other than the braves OR they will work somekind of escalating contact that is back loaded so when he is 39 and driving in 150 rbi’s he’ll make close to the top three in his postion. I believe Andruw will be durable—when they scouted Andruw(he was 15) he ran a a 40 @ 4.6 or something and his 54 year old father ran right behind him at a 5.2. As long as he does not throw out his back with his swing—I believe he will play and exceptionally well for another ten years. When he is 39 and closing out his season, he will be approaching all the records(strike outs included maybe). We lucky few will be able to say we saw him when he replaced Grissom. Saw cox pull him out of a game when he was screwing around alittle too much….It will be neat to watch where ever he goes. I hope he is a brave for life—could you imagine him and Aaron in the hall—I know Aaron played one last year with the brewers or something. But Aaron was a brave for life ad hopefully Andruw will be too. BTW if Red Sox went with the trade for Andruw I would have taken it because of the need for #1 starters and my belief the braves could sign Andruw at the end of 2007. I think it would be smart to rent Andruw for a year and a 1/3 for a possible #1 starter years—yes/go for it.

By Joe Strummer

August 12, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

Lets at least go out with style:

When they kick out your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun

When the law break in How you gonna go? Shot down on the pavement Or waiting in death row

You can crush us You can bruise us But you’ll have to answer to Oh, Guns of Brixton

By NLCHAMPS

August 12, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this

When the Mets get to the World Series who will the brave fans root for?

By Joe Strummer

August 12, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this

Lets at least go out with style: When they kick out your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun

When the law break in How you gonna go? Shot down on the pavement Or waiting in death row

You can crush us You can bruise us But you’ll have to answer to Oh, Guns of Brixton

By Thomas

August 12, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

Well supergrass look at this rookie team.• LOOK AT THIS TEAM

• Lineup: • Catcher Brian Mccann • 1B Ryan Howard • 2B Dann Uggla • 3B Ryan Zimmerman • SS Freddie Sanches • LF Andre Ethier • CF David De Jesus • RF Jeff Franceour

• Bench: • 3B/ Util IF Wilson Beitemet • SS/ Of Armando Almezaga • LF/ OF Matt Diaz • 2B/ Util Ryan Freel • C Chris Coste

• Pitchers: • SP Liriano Santana • SP Jared Weaver • SP Josh Johnson • SP Joe Saunders • SP Felix Hernandez • RHP Jonathan Papelbon • RHP Huston Street • RHP Adam Wainwright • RHP Jonathan Broxton • LHP McCay McBride • LHP Taylor Tankersley • RHP Phil Stockman

By Rodger

August 12, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this

MY GOD NLCHAMP, you are a one trick pony! Give it a rest! BTW, it will be ABNY!

By journalist jimmy smith

August 12, 2006 11:52 PM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith has just returned from turner field. where to start? journalist was surprised to find pete orr leading off and playing third tonight. know what? “p” player was the best player on the field tonight. kevin barry started for the braves and journalist must say kevin barry is not the answer to the pitching woes. francoeur made a great throw to the plate to cut down a runner. for a time the fans were all abuzz about his talent. then, the fateful at-bat … with his team battling back and considerable hope throughout the stadium that the braves could still win the game - francoeur had the worst at-bat this journalist can remember. it was if the at-bat was thrown away completely. the fans around this journalist were aghast as the brewers pitcher had his way with the young outfielder. when the team again took the field francoeur was no longer in the game - and journalist wonders why. journalist would say this team has nothing close to enough pitching to win a wild card. a team that scores 5 runs could win if not giving up 8. did dob find pie tonight? it was indeed a pie and coffee night- cool and damp.

By Rodger

August 12, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this

JJB, did you find kevin barry as funny as dave barry? or even the intrepid dave o’brien?

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this

Battin order:Instead of Uggla Brandon Phillips 2B Brandon Phillips LF Andre Ethier SS Freddie Sanches 1B Ryan Howard C Brian McCann 3B Ryan Zimmerman RF Jeff Franceour CF David De Jesus P pitcher

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 12:14 AM | Link to this

“down in front” said several to the man from tennessee. journalist has no idea why this fan bought a seat, for he stood almost the entire game blocking the view of others. but why stand? this was not an exciting game - dull instead. the braves gave up a lot of runs then started chipping away and coming back. then, a batter with unrefined skills killed a comeback by the team. it is as if the team - while trying to scratch and claw its way back-was cheated by an undeserving effort. maybe the effort was there and the lack of professional acumen and skill was missing. the young batter did not carry his weight in the order. it is hard for this journalist to put in words how deflating the francoeur at-bat was to all in attendance - and journalist is sure, to all teammates who did so much to try and come back. “aggressive” doesn’t cut it anymore - the kid is an unrefined product - loads of talent and no discipline - no acumen. if the coaches can get to him and polish his skills perhaps he will someday be a great player.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 12:26 AM | Link to this

Another frustrating night. A pitcher (Barry) who really didn’t pitch that bad but just made those couple of bonehead pitches that got clobbered.

Runners in scoring position not scoring. I didn’t disgaree with the Braves’ philosophy against Sheets of going up and swinging away. The guy was throwing strikes and they didn’t want to get behind in the count early. But, I just didn’t understand the mindset against Cordero. Again, Frenchy is just so frustrating. Cordero obviously was havning control issues. Instead of waiting until he threw a stike before swinging, Frenchy went up there hacking away. If he had been patient and not swung until a strike was thrown he probably would have walked. Not one of those three pitches were strikes. Same thing with Giles in the 9th. Make him throw strikes. I just don’t get it.

Well, maybe the return of Chipper will spark a run. Lord knows they need it. They have 47 games left and the way I see it the only way they get into the playoffs is by winning 32 to 34 of them. Pretty tall order for this team. By the way I think Barry will be okay. If McDowell is the great pitching coach that Cox says he is, then he will get Barry to change his style and start throwing the ball down. It seemed like everytime he got it down the Brewers couldn’t touch him.

By flbravesgirl

August 13, 2006 12:28 AM | Link to this

Esteemed journalist jimmy, you summed it up perfectly. I don’t think it was hard for you to put it into words at all. A Wurlitzer-worthy post.

Thomas, McCann, Francouer and Betemit are technically no longer rookies.

By Rodger

August 13, 2006 12:40 AM | Link to this

I think Bobby’s take on McDowell shows he’s gone over the top on senility!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 01:17 AM | Link to this

I’m sure the guys like McDowell. He is a good man. However, I don’t see this gameplan they always seem to have. These pitchers aren’t that bad that they fail all the time. Mazzone may have been a jerk and not easy to get along with but he demanded success and there is nothing wrong with that. Telling guys, “just give me your best” doesn’t cut it..especially with young guys. You have to challenge them to be the best. I don’t think getting in their face is always they way to go because some guys don’t respond well to that and that is just a fact. But, you can let guys know what you expect in other ways. The Bobby Knight approach usually works and that is what Mazzone seems to incorporate. The reason it works is because it truly challenges guys to be better or it ticks off the player so much that he goes out to do his best just to “stick it” to the coach. In either case, success is bred. Patting them on the rear and telling them that they’ll get ‘er next time doesn’t work with pros. They need to know that this isn’t some right or entitlement and that there is always someone waiting to take their place and willing to do or endure whatever they have to do to get their shot at success.

By chopthis

August 13, 2006 01:17 AM | Link to this

If Pete Orr can put a few games like tonight together, he’s gonna play his way right into a trade with the Dodgers. Or they can offer him to the Reds for Majewski.

Bay-tah-mee belts game-winning tater; Dodgers improve to 61-56.

Aybar stinks it up, then goes on DL; Baez has second ineffective outing in a row; Braves fall to 53-62.

Gonna be difficult to watch those Los Angeles Braves in October, isn’t it? I hope Furcal can stay sober this postseason.

Maybe a Schuerholz-for-Colletti trade is what the Braves need.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 01:45 AM | Link to this

chopthis

Betemit is playing well. He’s also just a cog in well oiled machine right now. I don’t think he ever was going to live up to who he was replacing in Atlanta (chipper). So I’m not sure if the move was better for him anyhow. Aybar will be OK. In fact I think he’ll be more than OK. If what DOB said is true that his injury happened in game one, give him a break. He just wanted to make a good first impression with his new team. Even though playing when hurt resemlbes Chris Reitsma a little bit, it doesn’t bother me that bad. Not to mention the fact that no matter how much better (right now) of a hitter Betemit is than Aybar, from what I’ve seen, Aybar absolutely has him beat hands down on the defensive side of the ball. And with the Braves pitching or lack there of, WE NEED THE DEFENSE MORE THAN BETEMIT’S OFFENSE. Betemit was no pure leadoff hitter himself, so what’s the difference? I mean, really, was JS gonna sit Chipper on the bench when he’s healthy? I doubt it. Yes, Betemit made some nice plays over there (3B) but he was mediocre at best at 2B, where everybody wanted him to play when Chipper was healthy - including myself. But that had more to do with Giles lackluster play than with Betemit’s supposedly great play. Let’s also not forget that Aybar is 3 years younger than Betemit.

Let’s give the trade some time, before we judge it. Look at St. Louis with the JD Drew trade. Drew has WAY MORE natural talent than Betemit ever did or will. The took Ray King and a young Adam Wainwright for him. I’m sure Cardinals fans were screaming when that trade went down. NOW, who’s got the better end of that deal?

By David O'Brien

August 13, 2006 01:55 AM | Link to this

Who is this Rodger who speaks of Paula Abd… I can’t even write that name in this blog. That just should never, ever be written here. Shame on you for bringing the level of discussion down to such crass pop commercialism.

And a mighty roar of approval to Joe Strummer for bringing the conversation out of that banal level and back up where it belongs by quoting “Guns of Brixton.” Here, here, Joe. Brilliant!

Paul Ab… aarrrrrrgh. I’ll never address another post of yours Rodger, if it includes such a vaccuous musical reference. Wiggles, that’s fine because it’s good kids music. Not my preference, but tolerable. But Paul A… oh, god, man, please. Never again.

By chopthis

August 13, 2006 02:03 AM | Link to this

Yeah, that ball through the legs to prolong the agonizing eight-run seventh Wednesday was some stellar defense.

Betemit was Atlanta’s best bench player this year. He could have been playing third this whole time Chipper’s been down. And when Chipper goes down again, which he inevitably will, Betemit could have been there to fill in again much more ably than Aybar.

Absolutely the only upside of this trade (there’s that word again) is the Braves found out for sure that Giles is better batting second. And what’s DOB say they’re gonna do tomorrow when Chipper gets back? Move Giles back to leadoff. End of upside.

I think what you’re going to find after a time is that Betemit has flourished getting to play most every day while Aybar will provide some defense and not much else. Certainly no power numbers to compare with Betemit. But just keep parroting what the spin doctors tell you about Willy’s youth and defense while the Braves chances dwindle by the day. I don’t think the Braves made the trade with next year foremost in their minds, though.

All I can judge the trade by right now with any certainty is what I’ve seen since the trade, and it’s no contest: Advantage Betemit; advantage Dodgers.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 03:29 AM | Link to this

chopthis

what is everybody’s obsession with betemit’s “power”? Don’t we have enough “power” in this lineup already. WE NEED HITTERS. I’d take 8 McCann’s ANY DAY over 8 Andruw’s! We already have enough hackers.

The defensive play that went through his legs? You can’t always judge “defense” by errors, can you. I’ll go out on a limb here, and assume you think Furcal played great defense, correct? He made/makes quite a few errors. Aybar has more range and a better arm than betemit from what I’ve seen. I’m pretty sure Francoeur has more errors than he did last year, yet again, I’ll assume you think he’s OK on D?

I’ve said it 1000 times, I too believe Betemit should’ve been given an everyday job…….CHIPPER’s! Is he better than Chipper? Nope. Will he ever be half the player Chipper was? Nope. But my guess is that if we compare the next 2 seasons, Betemit will have TWICE as many AB’s as Chipper. He’s younger and healthier than Chipper. But like DOB has been saying all year. Chipper AINT GOING ANYWHERE! So when you take that into consideration, and the fact that Bobby and JS obviously had ZERO interest in putting Betemit at 2B, why should we keep him? Yes, depth is nice. But I still say we should be worrying about pitching rather than who we have backing up Chipper at 3B! If we had above average to good pitching, it wouldn’t matter who filled in for Chipper when he goes down. We got away with Bream and Belliard (two all glove - no hit players) when we had good pitching. I’ll give you six reasons we don’t need Betemit’s bat:

Andruw, Francoeur, Thorman/Diaz platoon, Renteria, LaRoche, McCann!!!!!

Is the offense (other than lead off) our problem? I didn’t think so!

By nathan

August 13, 2006 03:40 AM | Link to this

btw: I’m sure the Tigers thought they got the best of the Doyle Alexander/John Smoltz trade after half of a season in 1987.

Obviously, I realize that Aybar is probably never going to be as much of an impact player as Smoltz. But Betemit probably does carry the Dodgers on his back to the playoffs the way Alexander did either.

Point being, like I said earlier, Don’t judge the trade after 2 weeks. It’s not fair to anybody involved.

That would be like complaining about the Jermaine Dye to KC for Lockhardt and Tucker deal. Yeah, it’d be nice to have Dye’s bat NOW. But NOBODY can say that we didn’t get more out of those 2 guys (neither as talented as Dye) than we would’ve got out of Dye during the years we had them. Dye couldn’t even stay on the field for a few years.

I could be way off, maybe Aybar ends up being nothing but a trivia question in HOFer Betemit’s bio, but I’m sorry to inform you, if Betemit was still on this team, it wouldn’t be making our starting pitching problems any better, would it? If your answer to that is NO, then that means that you’d be conceeding that it’s time to think about the future. And there is still a chance that Aybar (since he is 3 years younger than Betemit) could still end up having better numbers over the next 3 or 4 years, or at least in the future.

PS…are you one of those people saying “Man, I wish we still had Mark DeRosa and Tony Graninino.”? LOL! Sorry, I had to ask! But as silly as that sounds to ask, if I recall correctly both of those guys were also “super subs” who never really did anything when they were given an everyday job. Just a thought.

By chopthis

August 13, 2006 04:42 AM | Link to this

Mixed-up muddle of an argument, Nathan. How exactly is Aybar making the starting pitching any better? Any team, especially the 53-62 Braves, is better off with a bench player of Betemit’s caliber, even if a bench player is all he is. You know for a fact, Nathan, that they traded Betemit not with an eye toward the future, but in desperation to acquire bullpen help under the misguided notion that they could still salvage this season. Aybar was a utility-man throw-in, and a utility man is most likely all he’ll ever be.

What’s happened since? The Braves bid to salvage their season is OVER, and best I can tell from your argument, it’s because neither Betemit nor Aybar can pitch. The Dodgers, with a solid contribution from Betemit, who fills a glaring hole at third base for L.A., have skyrocketed.

Now, Betemit could have been making this solid contribution at third base for the Braves during Chipper’s absence. And it’s true that the Braves’ pitching is still so abysmal that Betemit wouldn’t really have made much difference in the braves’ record, but at least he wouldn’t have been hurting the Braves by helping the Dodgers. Instead, Scheurholz pulled a panicky trigger on a deal that weakened his own club by making the Dodgers stronger.

Argue all you want otherwise, but it’s futile. Braves fans’ reaction to this trade was overwhelmingly negative at the time, and there’s even more reason to feel that way today. The Braves have continued to flounder while the Dodgers have become yet another National League team to build a solid lead on them. Betemit’s feats have been all over SportsCenter this week. To be fair, Aybar’s been on ESPN, too: Once being called out for missing second base, and again for committing an egregious error to prolong an excruciating eight-run inning.

Now, maybe Aybar can go to the winter leagues (it’s gonna be a long, long winter for the Braves) and learn to pitch. Then it’s possible you’ll have some support for the trade turning in favor of the Braves someday.

In the meantime, you just keep believing everything the AJC tells you, Nathan. Life is so much easier when you don’t try to think for yourself.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

Good Mornin’ Everyone,

I have yet to read a word of this new blog but I did just now finish catching up on the the last one from 3:30 pm or so on. I went to the game last night and really did have some fun. I’m a sucker for watching new guys come up, find their sea legs, and (hopefully) get some real traction. (Isn’t stewing metaphors fun?) OK. Barry. I’d watched him come on in relief and then proceed to blow away. I had semi-high hopes. From my perspective, he did some shining last night. I would expect some jitters on your first ML start. And he settled down after 1 and did quite nicely as long as he threw strikes and allowed himself to do the baseball version of the corporate team building exercise where you stand on the edge of a (whatever) backwards and fall backwards. When he gave up the dinger to Hall (?) in the 4th/5th, it looked like a good pitch to me (down and away). Hall stole a page from Francouer though. The big takeaway for me though was Pete Orr. DANG! What a nice surprise! ! I first sat down and saw him in the leadoff spot and… well, I admit I did a little squirming. But then he goes on to become the first Braves baserunner (2nd at bat), and proceeded to go (what was it — 2 or 3 for 4?). Add to that some late inning excitement, and overall, plenty of fun to go around. (Just to remind, I’ve been looking to 2007 since the Mets were in town. And after a day or two of struggle, I really am OK with it.)

krath: I downloaded your MP3 and am waiting for everyone to wake up before I crank the volume and play it.

Dave and krath: Oh yeah, I’m an RLB guy, too. (The wife thinks when I keep playing “It’s Bad You Know” that I’m sending her a message. I usually just change the subject.) Say, did you guys know he didn’t even become a musician until his late forties? What a story his is.

Off for a tea refill…

By ncscoots

August 13, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

I need the answer to a question, please…are we doomed to an eternity of posts castigating the Braves for the Betemit trade? If so, then I respectfully ask all the bloggers who do not think the guy is the Second Coming to please refrain from responses to such posts. Just scroll past, ignore it, and move on to a subject that actually has some relevance, instead of perpetuating a thread that is completely meaningless. Thanks.

By ncscoots

August 13, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

my only other thought on the overnights…I’m pretty sure that anybody who says “the Bobby Knight approach always works” never played for a Bobby Knight-type coach.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

Dave,

Excellent leadoff article in this blog.

You are correct in stating (IMO) a rookie starter in late August wouldn’t be happening in a playoff hunt (sorry if I misparaphrased). There is a statement there. I guess we have no real choice but to find another proven starter ‘twixt now and April. We can always deal one if Hudson or Hampton aren’t up to snuff. We can’t really expect a Tigers or Marlins kind of experience with new guys… given the reported lack of depth on the farm. But, could we perhaps have a sound basis for HOPING for it? I’m curious as to whether anyone has done a real analysis on those two models and come up with some theories that don’t leak like glass full of birdshot. IOW, how did THEY do it?

Question: Given… a) Wicky’s obscenely thrilling 6 for 6 performance, b) Cleveland’s absolutely abysmal closing situation since his departure c) the bargain basement price we paid (as in practically non-existent!)…

What element of this story is missing that would make it all make sense? There has to be something — eh?

Off for another tea refill and to catch up on the comments.

By Don

August 13, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this

chopthis, expecting anything other than muddled from Nathan is like expecting Francouer to lay off a slider in the dirt. It ain’t going to happen.

How about that Baez? Got to love those mechanics, the Russ Ortiz/Chris Reitsma wrist c**k at the top of his windup. It’s hard to believe he blew so many saves for the Dodgers this year. Yeah, I’d sign that guy to a 3 year contract to be my closer.

I’m disappointed that Aybar is hurt, I was hoping he’d get some opportunities to show us how he can flash the leather at second base.

Nice trade JS!

By Don

August 13, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

Good grief, they’ve got automatic censoring that reads wrist c**k as an obscenity. How about wrist cocke, will that get through? Wrist kok? Or how about if I say I don’t like the way Baez cocks his wrist at the end of his windup, is that allowed?

Maybe the problem was the proximity of the word to “blew” in the next sentence.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

nathan:

Your 12:05pm offering is hilarious. And I have no problem admitting someone like that sits under my hat from time to time. Keep ‘em coming — Please!

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

Sorry. It was 10:05pm, not 12:05. It’s not easy to see the keyboard with the lighting (or lack thereof) in the doghouse.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

Nathan: I couldn’t agree more with your 10:04 post. I keep reminding myself of not only Smoltz’s early year number, but also Glavine and Maddux. Rookie pitchers, second and third year pitchers… they all need time and starts up here to become their blueprint.

But there has to be all sorts of ways to streamline the process. Look at the 2006 Tiger and Marlin staff. How’d they do it?

By Hal

August 13, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Since winning in baseball stems at least in part from having the best players ,i believe a trade can be judged by who got the best player

LA in Betmemit in MHO got the best player

Kc In Dye got the best player

Pirates in Schmidt got the best player

Now you can suck up to JS all you want and i will readily admits hes made some very good trades too BUT the fact is hes made some terrible ones too

Anyone rember his dandy from the KC days David Cone for Ed Hearn ya that was a dandy

By nathan

August 13, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

chop this

JS himself said Aybar (2B abd leadoff hitter of future) was the “target” of the trade and Baez was the “throw in”. Mabye he’s lying to save face, I don’t know.

But did it ever occur to you that even though publicly he’s saying they are still in it, he had “given up” on this year and was looking towards next season and beyond already.

I’m sure even he realizes that this years team aint going anywhere.

BTW: other than DOB, I don’t believe much that the AJC says. I’ve actually watched Aybar play, and Betemit play. And IMO that I’ve formed on my own Aybar is the better longterm solution for the Braves (as long as Chipper is still here, which last time I checked he is.)

If you can’t read between Bobby’s “lines” by him not playing Betemit at 2nd base when Giles was struggling (it tells me, Bobby didn’t want him at 2B), then you go right ahead and keep believing what you want. Bobby wasn’t playing him for a reason, what that is I don’t know. But after all he is the best manager of all time, isn’t he? Surely he knows something about talent?

Listen, I’m not saying that Betemit won’t be a good player in his career. But as long as Chipper was here, he wasn’t going to play 3B other than when Chipper is hurt. Granted that probably ammounts to about 80 games a year. LOL! But you get the point. And based on what I just typed above, Bobby was NEVER going to give him the 2B job. IMO the best chance Betemit had to play everyday in Atlanta went out the door, when they traded for Renteria. Do you think that was a bad move too?

Just be happy for Wilson that he’s finally been given an everyday job. Next year when Aybar is putting up better numbers than Giles, with more speed in the leadoff spot, come back on this blog and appologize! LOL.

PS: the “muddle” of an argument about Aybar helping the pitching. Whatever, dude. You have your opinion, I have mine (which apparently is also the AJC’s opinion), I can live with it, if you can.

By I Know You Rider

August 13, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

I respect Smoltz big time for not giving up, but the reality is that this season has been over for awhile. This team does not have what it takes to make the postseason or to put up a decent showing if they did. With as good as this team was in the 90’s, they are just as bad this year. Question is how long(in years) it will take to get them back to the playoffs.

I was never in favor of the Betemit trade, but it looks even worse now. Aybar is on the DL and Baez has shown in his last couple of outings why his ERA was over 4 when he came over. In the end, we will got a utility infielder for giving up a bonified starting infielder. JS has finally turned into a pumpkin.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this

chop this

You know, sorry to “muddle on” but……

I was think about your comment about JS trading Betemit for Baez and Aybar being the throw in player. Yeah, you’re right. He’d trade an “un-needed” minor league catcher for an actual closer with a “good” track record, and then turn around and trade a pretty good major league ready utility player for a reliever who has absolutey SUCKED this year, and looks like he will continue to struggle with inconsistancy throughout his career. You’re right on about that one.

Wake up, dude! THAT TRADE WAS NOT ABOUT BAEZ! HE WON’T BE IN A BRAVES UNIFOR AFTER THIS SEASON MERCIFULLY COMES TO AN END. But I’m sure you still won’t get it at that point, will you?

By nathan

August 13, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

Are you guys so BLIND as to see that at age 23 Betemit was in the midst of his 2nd HORRIBLE season of AAA ball, and Aybar is already at the major league level? Putting up better numbers in the bigs, then Betemit was at Richmond, by far. THIS MOVE IS FOR THE FUTURE!!! WAKE UP! WE ARE REBUILDING, even if JS won’t publically say it, this is ONLY the beginning of the re-tooling. This offseason is going to say a lot. I’m not sure we’ll cut payroll like the Marlins, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see many other veterans go this offseason. JS gave up on this season at the July 31 deadline, weather he said it publicaly or not! WE WERE SELLERS! Wickman will be a cheap close for next year, to stop-gap until one of the young guns (Devine, Boyer etc…) are ready to close. Everybody acts like we were only “one” player away from steam-rolling the Mets and marching towards our World Series parade! What a Joke. This team is about 5 or 6 PITCHERS away from being consistant enough to play .500 ball, let alone make a playoff push! And that’s not even getting into the “hack-n-jack” attitude of the offense.

Don’t take my ranting as me not being a fan! I’m a huge fan, and a realistic one! I took off the “rose colored glasses” in May and realized we had no shot this year. Sure they teased us for a couple of weeks. But that coincided with Chipper being HOT, not good pitching. Yeah right, we were gonna win a lot of 10-8 playoff games! Keep on Dreaming!

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

krath: Loved the tune. Keep on keepin’ on. Thanks… Sounds like a —real— B3 with real warmth and well seasoned.

Andy: Reading your 11:39pm post made me realize we need batting help. I wonder if Howard McCann has a future with the Braves. Why not? Just a thought. Maybe he could do Francouer as a Proof of Concept. Great post, btw. I did not know those scouting details from him as a 15-year old. Nice to see Dad right on his tail at 54. Let’s hope the implication pans out.

I agree with you and really hope he stays here. There just isn’t (at least now) any comparable replacement on the horizon.

journalist jimmy: I take it you were’n’t sitting in the press box…? I have to disagree with your statement that it was a boring game. I thought there was ample excitement that started when it became clear to the other Braves hitters that Petey O was going to show ‘em all up. That seemed to inspire them. It’s kind of sad it takes something like that to ignite them against a pitcher who was battling shoulder problems. But the excitement obviously didn’t survive the 9th inning. Oh well.

By Lew

August 13, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

Hal-In response to your point about the inequity of trades. I’m not a kool aid drinker, a suck up, a party line guy or anything like it. But I would like you to honestly answer this question. What GM with more than 20 years experience, has NOT made a bad trade or two-or more? I think JS has made more good trades than bad in his career. No one is perfect. How about the Gm who pulled the string on the Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio trade? Or how about Rick Wise for a 20 game winning Steve Carlton? Do you see where I’m going here. The Braves were multiple games under .500 WITH and WITHOUT Betemit. He really made absolutely no impact on where the Braves are in the standings, either by his presence or lack thereof. E.G.-Last night’s game. Would Betemit’s name in the lineup have kept Braves’ pitchers from giving up 8 runs? Doubtful. I know this season has been frustrating for Braves’ fans. I know because I’m a Braves’ fann, too and I’ve suffered through this season like the rest of you. But listening to the frustration this week has almost become laughable. All we’ve been hearing is “We shouldn’t have gotten rid of Klesko, Schmidt, Dye, Miner, etc. ad nauseum. There wasn’t one word of criticism about these moves at the time, because we were still winning division titles. Going back and re-hashing the past is usually a fruitless enterprise. It really is time to get over what is now history and figure out how to win it all next year.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

Hal

Here’s a link to Dye’s stats on the ESPN page, you’ll see that for the first two years of that trade he did SQUAT! Yes longterm he was the best player, but isn’t that kindof familiar to what we have here with Aybar, a longterm plan? Plus in 1997 and 1998 Tucker was a pretty good number 2 hitter for us, and lockhart was great of the bench, it’s not like we got crap in the trade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3449

Also, below is a link to the ESPN stats page on Jason Schmidt. Same story, talk about a guy with STUFF and nothing in the way of numbers to back it up. Hell, Sosa had better numbers than him! Plus if I recall didn’t we get Neagle for him? He had a few good years for us, didn’t he? Looks to me that we traded Schmidt in 1997 and he didn’t wake up and have a good year until 2001 for the GIANTS NOT PIRATES! So again, it took a while for him to perform up to what was expected of him. How much would we be yelling for him to get out of the rotation, if we had waited 5 more years for that? Do you think the Pirates feel they got the better end of the Schmidt trade? Yeah, I didn’t think so!

By nathan

August 13, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

Sorry, if forgot to add the link to Schmidt’s stats! Too busy ranting! LOL!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3180

By nathan

August 13, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

Well said Lew, like always!

By Lew

August 13, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

Nathan-Thank you. In relation to the Schmidt trade, let’s not forget that Neagle SHOULD have won the Cy Young for the Braves, too. The fact that he was a damn fool and signed with the Rockies (why do good pitchers insist on doing that?)and destroyed his career, does not negate his accomplishments as a Brave. He had a couple of good seasons while Schmidt was still learning to pitch.

By Don

August 13, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

Nathan, you’re saying that after a month of Betemit for Linebrink rumors and then the Betemit for Proctor rumor, after the discussion that Wickman wouldn’t be the last bullpen move, that Baez wasn’t the primary target in the trade with LA? Willy Aybar, a guy the Dodgers had given up on to the point they wouldn’t play him when they had gaping holes at second and third, was the primary guy in the trade?

I implore you, put down the crack pipe.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

rumors rumors rumors! Wasn’t Andruw “rumored” to going too? rumors aren’t always true my friend.

besides are you saying players that other teams “give up” on, can never ammount to anything? For instance, players like, Jermaine Dye and Jason Schmidt?

You can’t have it both ways guys. If you believe the press saying things about trade rumors, then you have to believe what JS says in the press about why he made a trade, don’t you. Or do you live in a world where you are the “all-knowing” one who picks through the BS and decides what is the truth. If you have that skill, by all means, start your own newspaper/website, I’d be very interested in subscribing.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

Hello, and good morning

By Don

August 13, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

DOB was the guy printing the “rumors” of Betemit for various relief pitchers, while he said the Andruw trade talk was overblown.

Look back at the headlines on DOB’s blogs 3-4 weeks ago if your memory is that short.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Mornin all, sorry I’m late. Glad to see you started without me, and please keep your seats. Lew hits the nail on the head. Some trades work some don’t and most take time to properly evaluate. One thing is certain, both parties expect some upside or they would not make the move. As no hitter bats 1000 over extended period, neither does a GM. You win some and, oh well. On another matter, I saw at the early stage of this blog a mention concerning some kind of problem involving Prince and Cecil Fielder. I am totally confused. What the heck does Prince have to do with Cecil Fielder?? Also why should I care?? I liked ‘Purple Rain’ marginally and nothing else by this ‘artist’. I saw him recently on a ‘Good Morning America’ segment where they have a ‘concert in the park’. There were about 8 people there{400 if you count the muggers} and he is back to being just Prince. Now he started out as Prince, then became the Artist Formerly Known AS Prince, so shouldn’t he now be ‘The Artist Formerly Known AS The Artist Formerly Known As Prince’??? Confusing

By nathan

August 13, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Didn’t DOB also state that Aybar was the primary target in the Betemit trade?

Check your own ego at the door, if you’re gonna accuse my memory of being short!

By nathan

August 13, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

10-7-4

LMAO at the “prince” comment! Awesome! The next thing you know, Huey Lewis is gonna be having it out with Roger Clemens!

By dadgum

August 13, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

I’m back after spending a week on the Brunswick Coast of NC drinking Caronas, fishing, thinking. Thinking about how glad I am that I live in this great country, thinking about how lucky I am to really appreciate James Taylor’s talent, thinking that it really may be possible to expect a final Led Zep reunion, thinking about everything, thinking about the Braves.

Ah yes…the Braves. Never saw a game last week, not that the Braves are shown Nationally much anymore, but actually chose not to watch. Saw maybe an inning total in passing. Saw Andruw hit a homer in the 9th of some game and teh Braves still lost by 3 or 4 runs. Same old thing. I will agree with DOB that this team is not bad. They have had the injury problems where they couldn’t afford them and quite honestly I feel that JS has dropped the ball by not reacting in a timely manner on securing an experienced #3 or #4 starter.

First, hats off to Smoltz for going the distance and the great win. To address those that are talking about the last trade of Betemit for Aybar/Baez. Way too early to tell on that one. You can spin it anyway you like right now. Frankly I can’t see down the road the trade having a big impact on either club’s success or failure. Way too many parts to sum up to figure that out. Right now Betemit is having great success and we all should be happy for him but I think Maddox will have a bigger impact for the Dodgers especially if they can resign him.

As I write this the Braves are in 10th place in the wild card race. They trotted out Barry who couldn’t get a win in Richmond to face Sheets. Man are these bad times or what. Don’t you have to trot some experience of some kind out there to face Sheets? I noticed Cormier is starting here in Richmond tonight. Not that he is great or anything but at least he pitched in ATL this year. Why is Barry in ATL and not Cormier? Barry is someone you start in September after all hope is gone. Oh, it is.

When the Braves failed to secure a starting pitcher in a trade prior to the deadline in July that pretty much sealed their fate for this year. I wrote, as did many of you, that was crucial for any wild card hope. It didn’t take a genius to see that but I felt and still do that the starting pitching was more important than the closer issue. True you gotta have both to be a solid team and challenge but give me starting pitching any time.

I hate to say this but right now there are only 3 teams in the NL with records worse than ours. Two of those are very close to us with Pittsburgh being the only team that we may not be able to fall behind but has very good pitching. That being said it is very possible given our starting rotation that we will reverse the “worst to first” finish of ‘91 and turn it into the “first to worst” finish of ‘06. All good things must come to an end sometimes with a big crash.

By Don

August 13, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

By the way, this latest (paraphrasing) “Willy Aybar has won points with Bobby Cox by playing hurt” strikes me as more pure spin coming out of the Braves organization.

If it’s not, why is Pete Orr on the major league roster? Bobby played a guy who supposedly can’t play second (Betemit) instead of Orr when Giles was hurt, now we’re being told Bobby played an injured Willy Aybar for two weeks at third (and batted him leadoff even though he couldn’t really swing the bat because of his injury) instead of a healthy Pete Orr?

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

Don— me thinks Bobby did not know of the injury till later.

By Don

August 13, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

No Nathan, while DOB said he liked the trade, I don’t recall him ever suggesting Aybar was the primary target. DOB was writing that JS was still focused on winning the wild card in 2006, remember? As recently as a day or two ago, JS claims not to have given a thought to 2007.

By CRAZY BASTARD

August 13, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

I APPOLOGIZE DOB, YOUR A GOOD MAN. BUT YOUR NO JUAN VALDEZ…THATS A GOOD THING. HE HAS A CHEESEY MOOSTACIO.

GRINGO

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

Nathan- good to meet you. Well we really haven’t met. So good to talk with ya. Well we really aren’t talking. So I’ll just say ‘Good”. My friends here call me ‘35’ so you can call me 10-7-4. No No just kidding.You to can call me 35. If you do you will be eligible to win a ‘used 40 year old Party Ring and a Mr. Microphone. Plus if you’ll do it on your credit card we’ll throw in a set of knives. Oh, sorry but I have no ‘news’ on Huey Lewis.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

OOPS meant ‘too, as in ‘you too[also]

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

What’s In YOUR Current Playlist?

My Today’s playlist:

• Dignity and Shame (Crooked Fingers)

• Stand Still and Look Pretty (The Wreckers) and I have to admit they do this pretty well

• Glenn Miller & The Army Air Force Band (Glenn Miller & The Army Air Force Band)

• One Moment More (Mindy Smith)

• Van Hunt (Van Hunt)

• Walk On Water EP (Dwight Twilley)

• Sleeping Dogs (Martha’s Trouble)

• Kinda Kinks (The Kinks)

• On Your Side (Magnet)

• Drift (The Devlins)

• Goodbye to All That (Rubyhorse)

• Take It Easy With the Walker Brothers (Walker Brothers)

• Push the Button (Chemical Brothers)

• Gold (Ryan Adams)

• Let Go (Nada Surf)

• Hits/B-Sides (Prance)

• American V: A Hundred Highways (Johnny Cash)

Today seems like a good day for diversions.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

Chippers back in the lineup.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

Amen to Dadgum’s “All good things must come to an end, sometimes with a big crash.”

It was getting a little boring. Admit it.

I do!

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

lew, has captured the harebeest in all hartebeest’s magnifigance. jimmy smith sees that now others have viewed the hartebeest rendering. in truth, the hartebeest has better manners than bobby cox and is more suited to portraiture. jimmy smith thinks lew should be the official portrait painter of this blog. will he do one of the man in black for dob? good stuff, dob- you will be impressed. now, baseball … journalist awoke this morning and re-lived last night’s game … nothing much changes except journalist thinks the team has so little pitching that there are no real alternatives to giving a guy like barry the start. walks will get anyone in trouble then having to throw a strike down in the count will make one susceptible to the long ball. baez hits the first batter then is all over the place - turns a 2 run game into a 3 run game. pete orr didn’t fail in the ninth - journalist saw nothing different from pete orr in that at-bat than the ones in which pete orr was successful. the pitches were coming in at 97-99 mph. giles? make him throw a strike, marcus! from the stands it looks like andruw has no control over his body when he takes that big swing and almost falls to the ground. that fall down swing is a product of this year and should be corrected. now, francoeur - journalist and all fans around journalist were not surprised at the first two at-bats where francoeur flailed away at pitches then sat down - but journalist and all felt surely francoeur could have a better at-bat after his team battled so hard in the eighth. what a poor effort! bet the players on the team were saying so to themselves. francoeur did not give himself a chance to reach base (likely would have walked since none of the pitches were strikes) and continue the rally. sad. francoeur has the raw talent of a superstar in the making - but perhaps the mentality of the sandlot player. meanwhile, mccann has the baseball acumen and the skill sets to play the game at the major league level. in this journalist’s opinion mccann is far the better player and far more important to this team. though mccann grounded out a couple times and struck out mccann was not swinging at pitches two feet outside. francoeur’s at-bat was devastating because it was not of professional standards. better to have had pratt at the plate. “aggressive” is not stupid. “aggressive” is not undisciplined. does no one attempt to teach the young man with all this god-given talent some plate discipline? a hard-hit ball truned into and out would have been no reason for second guessing - but that inept at-bat at the peak of the rally was unforgivable. mccann’s daddy should be retained to work with francoeur. now, aybar - yet another hand injury. why has edgar cooled off so? by the way, pete orr is fast! newfound respect for “p” player pete orr.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

ESPiN is billing the Dodgers/Giants game tonight as “the first 700HR/300gm winner matchup in history.”

Go Mad Dog.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Journalist Jimmy—good report as we have come to expect. Francouer seem to be a victim of his own success. He had the big hit the night before and was showered with adulation by his peers, the fans, the press,etc. etc. Only natural for the kid to try and duplicate. Hit it out and walk off a hero again. His at bat was one of the worst I have seen in my many years. Someone earlier guessed his ‘mates’ might be getting angry. I don’t think so. I believe they are very frustrated with his efforts, but they know he is trying so very hard, and as long as he try’s his best anger will be held at bay. When you are all in the same boat[team sports] all you ask is best effort from everyone. Patience however can wane with repeated lack of willingness to adjust to situation.. Hope he doesn’t become another Dave Kingman.

By Lew

August 13, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Esteemed Journalist Jimmy-I’m glad you think highly of the Hartebeest. I would be happy to do a Man In Black portrait for DOB. To all of you still lamenting the Betemit trade-You must get over it. Good trade or bad, it is a fait accompli. Betemit is gone and JS still has a job. Analogies containing phrases such as your Aunt Tilly and male genetalia are appropos in this case. It happened. Life must go on.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Lew—in lieu of ‘Esteemed’ we must now temporarily, say ‘A steamed’ when addressing Journalist Jimmy.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

If DOB “liked” the trade why are you arguing with me and not him! LOL!

Man, of all the things Renteria does so well, BUNTING is NOT one of them! Yuck!

By nathan

August 13, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

10-7-4

How much EGO do you think Ned Yost has to put up with in his clubhouse with BOTH Prince and Cory Hart on the team?

Sorry, I couldn’t resist!

By David O'Brien

August 13, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

TommyB, love the playlist, especially Van Hunt, Mindy Smith and Crooked Fingers. Sometimes I wonder who’s buying certain CDs other than me; a post like yours reminds me of others with similar tastes.

As for the interminable debate on the Betemit/Aybar/Baez trade, sorry, but Don and the rest of those obsessed with that relatively minor deal aren’t going to get me to dive back in today. Because you all sound like rank amateurs judging a trade each day according to the stats the night before. People, astute baseball people know you wait years to judge a trade of such young players. You’re not even waiting WEEKS for god’s sake. Again, you sound like football fans wading into the baseball blog for a day. You’re all better than that, or should be.

Don, you and your “spin” and conspiracy posts are laughable. I write what I perceive, which is that this kid won brownie points playing hurt for Cox. And you call that organizational “spin”? how in hell is that spin??!!! you’re irrational, man. seriously, you can’t be reasoned with. that’s MY OPINION, nothing Cox said other than the way he said he admired the kid and the look on his face that told me he meant it. if you call that spin, fine. but if you keep attacking my integrity, i’ll simply refrain from answering your posts. and if you don’t believe me, keep it up.

because unlike Chopthis, Bob, Robert, Jimmy, etc, you offer very little in the way of overall analysis of the ballclub, just obsessive posts about a trade of utility players and an erratic closer. that’s all it was, by the way, don, a trade of utility players, both trying to establish themselves as every-day guys. And if you think it’s more, you think too small. The fate of this year’s, next year’s, or any other year’s team wasn’t going to ride on Aybar or Betemit or Baez. They are role players, all of them.

Now I’m done with that trade until something notable happens from the Braves’ end of it. Oh, and the kid played hurt and the Braves knew he was hurt. Reason he played was because it’s an injury that can’t be worsened by playing, as long as the pain is tolerable you can play. And with Chipper out, Braves wanted to see Aybar play, even if they knew he wasn’t at full strength. They could still do some evaluating, watching him in the field, etc, and doing what he could with a limited swing.

Oh, one other thing: Several players and staff members said they were surprised there weren’t MORE errors in that inning where Aybar let the ball go through his legs, simply because everyone was half-asleep because of abysmal pitching. Why do you think fielders always praise pitchers for working efficiently, not walking guys, throwing strikes and letting hitters put it in play? Because it keeps everyone on their toes. The opposite occurs when you walk four in an inning and go to 3-ball counts with about everyone else.

But guys like Don who don’t really know the inside game of baseball just see a careless error. That’s why your arguments about the trade seem so base and low-level, Don. Because you don’t come across as an astute observer of the game. You just rant and use buzz words and try to push buttons by mocking the use of an industry term “upside,” etc. Whatever, keep going, man, your son might come back if you convince J.S. it was a bad trade.

By David O'Brien

August 13, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Nathan, stop dragging me back into that damn trade (but yes, I did like it, and still do).

By the way, actually a very funny line from you about Prince and Cory Hart.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

WAY TO GO DOB!

You’re the MAN! Now I’ll just sit back and watch them attack you instead of me! LOL.

btw: to clear the “record” even though you said you want to be done with this trade, as do I. Is it true or false that JS said Aybar was the “main” target of the trade? And if JS did actually say this, do you BELIEVE it to be true, or just “spin”? :)

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Got the game just in the background so far… did I hear that the Dodgers acquired S. Green, or is it just a rumor? thanks…

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

uh, the Mets, I mean…

By nathan

August 13, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

DOB…..I’ll stop dragging you in. I promise, just trying to get people off my back about somthing that I don’t think I’m being that unreasonible about.

I realize sometimes I can get a little “over the top”, but I truely believe that this trade was EXACTLY what you just stated it was: A trade of to utility guys and a throw in reliever. And even though Aybar may be a utility guy now, he has more upside “on the Braves roster” than Betemit was going to. That doesn’t mean that he’ll be a better player than Betemit, just a better “fit”, IMO!

I’m officially OFF of this subject!…….That is until somebody upsets me again! LOL!

Thank you DOB about the 80’s pop reference! Anytime you can talk about Cory Hart, you gotta throw that in there.

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

Nathan, at the risk of answering for DOB, and at the risk of keeping this topic open; I do remember DOB writing about the possible trades for Linebrink and Proctor, and saying that any Braves deal would probably be contingent on our finding another backup infielder as well. So, whichever guy was the target (I don’t know), I guess the deal we did killed two birds with one stone.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Good point, MBATL.

I can live with that, just to be done with this topic. :)

By nathan

August 13, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

I realize that Hudson has gotten out of his jams today, and really hasn’t been that sharp. But could we actually be witnessing two good starts in a row from the overrated one?

We can only hope.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

Is Mike Maddux on a Year-to-Year Contract?

Anyone know?

Any idea what he makes?

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

The jams he’s been in, for the most part, are typical of his season; he gives up more hits on weakly hit balls that find a hole than any pitcher I’ve seen. But he’s pitched around it so far and seems to be getting stronger.

Playoffs are a long shot, but a sold 2 months by Huddie, and Giles staying productive when moved back to leadoff, would be huge going into next year.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

A little off topic for everybody out there.

After Rocker’s article was in SI, that next spring training, the players and coaches held a meeting about all of the “crap” that was going to come their way from that articla and the media hype. I remember Sutton saying somthing about one of the coaches SCREAMING right in Rocker’s face about how he just “didn’t get it”. I trying to remember which coach it was. Was it Ned Yost? Also, wasn’t Rocker dating Don Sutton’s daughter? Do you think they still are? LOL!

Not sure what made me think of all that, but I’m board.

By krath

August 13, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

TommyB,

The organ is actually a Korg BX-3. The B-3 is great! Nothing sounds like it! But the digitals are getting much closer and keeping a B-3 tonewheel in peak condition is expensive and for many impractical. The damn things are too heavy for old guys like me to lug around. lol

Hudson didn’t seem to be fooling anyone early, still, he managed to wiggle of the hook a few times. I guess it’s a good sign that he actually looks like he’s putting the ball where he wants it a little better as the game progresses.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Nathan,

Yeah, Rocker was dating Sutton’s daughter and no, not any more.

I heard him on some local sports talk show a couple of months ago. He said he’s now dating a New Yorker… and that she’s also African-American.

My feel-good contribution for the moment….

By nathan

August 13, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

MBATL, I hear you about Hudson’s “bad luck”.

But I’ve always been of the belief that you create your own luck. When you don’t have overpowering stuff (like smoltz) you need to hit your spots BIG TIME. When you only throw 90 MPH, you better throw it where you want to or it will be a long game (or season LOL!) He misses his spots more often then he hits them. But he has so much movement, that he can sometimes get away with it. But if you watch where McCann (or Pratt) setup when Hudson’s on the mound, that glove sometimes moves 2 feet away from where the original targe was. THAT’S NOT GOOD. Pretty much what got Sosa ran out of town.

I hope he figures it out by next year. Because 1) I like him, alway been a fan and 2) in 2008 he’s gonna cost us a LOT of money. So if he doesn’t figure it out - where gonna be stuck with a very expensive and unproductive player.

So whether it’s for us to benifit by him pitching well, or us to beneifit by trading him…..I hope he steps it up.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Nathan—good one. I wonder since he is not listed as ‘the artist formerly known as, the artist formerly known as Prince on the lineup card could anyone lodge a protest and make them forfeit the games in which he appeared??

By nathan

August 13, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Tommy B

nice post. Rocker, that guy kills me! I always thought the stuff he said was way overblown. Last time I checked it’s not a crime to be a moron! But you still can’t say stuff like that anytime, much less in an interview….EVER! I think the best part of that whole article was the camouflage outfit he had on! I’m not a hunter, but everybody else in my family is. But the only way they couldv’e made him look MORE redneck, would’ve been to put a piece of straw in his mouth and a John Deer hat on him! LOL!

Poor Don Sutton! Not exactly the guy you envision your daughter going out with! I would’ve loved to have been a fly on the wall of those conversations between Sutton and Rocker!

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

Dave,

You may already be aware, but in the off chance you aren’t, there are decent apps out there that will record internet radio and capture title and artist. On the Mac side, RadioLover is good. I know there are Windows apps too, but I just don’t recall what they are.

krath,

Man, one nice sounding digital B3. Whew. Know of any good ones for a Novation Remote?

By Tonight on TBS

August 13, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

First time on TBS…

Hillbillys in a Haunted House (1967)

Country singers on their way to Nashville have car trouble, forcing them to stop at an old haunted mansion. Soon they realize that the house is not only haunted, but is also the headquarters of a ring of international spies after a top secret formula for rocket fuel. Music/Horror. With Ferlin Husky, Lon Chaney Jr., Basil Rathbone, and Merle Haggard (as himself).

We’re not making this up - this movie really exists.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Andruw reaches 100 RBI’s, what is it now 6 or 7 years that he has reached that mark.

By Tonight on TBS

August 13, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Seriously - Merle Haggard even sings!

By nathan

August 13, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Don’t look now, I might not last! But Tim Hudson is on a stretch of 1 run allowed in his last 17 Innings Pitched!

Correct me if I’m wrong, but THAT is what we traded him for!

My fingers are crossed.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

By the way chipper returning in great form defensively.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Nathan Hudson allowed 3 runs in his last inning in Pitsburg, but he has changed his mechanics and he has pitched great, 12 scorless innings.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

Chipper’s Swing Not the Usual

He looks a little stiff and a lot tentative/cautious. Not quite as Chubby Checker. Yeah, that’s to be expected. Let’s hope he isn’t still playing with oblique problems. No, I’m not jinxing, I’m just antsy tha he is and it’s going to be a game or two then back on the DL, over and over.

By Moe

August 13, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Hudson has been tinkering with his mechanics all season.

Luckily, the umpire is giving him a generous strike zone today. To his credit, his is taking advantage of it.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

krath,

I meant to ask you earlier but forgot. I know Bobby Abreu and Todd Helton are former Asheville Tourists. Any other notables you recall?

I love that stadium. We usually go to a handful of games there each year.

I’m sure you caught the manager’s 24 hours of stardom recently…?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Chipper does look a little tentative at the plate. Skip mentioned that he says he still can feel it when swings. I have a feeling he is only at about 85% to 90%. But, at this point in the season that is better than any alternative they have.

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Nathan, can’t believe you put the MoJo on his a@@ like that. Oh well.

Great to see Tim pitch out of a jam; that’s what’s been missing most the season. He sure hit the mitt on strike 3 to your boy Cory.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Thomas, according to ESPN’s boxscore of that Pittsburg game, he allowed 1 run in the last inning of that game (the 6th inning). He did however allow 3 runs total in the game, but 2 of them were in the 1st inning.

But either way I spoke too soon I guess! LOL

Though that run should have never scored last inning if Francoeur doesn’t throw to 3B. Hudson struck out the next guy and then gave up the run on what would’ve been a routine double play ball. But I wouldn’t want to get into “fudamental” baseball, like hitting the cutoff man with all of you. Last time I did that I got called a moron and many other names! :)

here is the link to ESPN’s box score of that Braves/Pirates game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=260803123

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

You know, if Diaz could learn to be a bit more patient the Braves may not have to look for a leadoff hitter. I kind of hope Cox lets him play for about 10 games in a row to see what he can do.

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Frenchy’s throw was like his at bats… too much enthusiasm. It was a very good throw that never should’ve been made. The run probably scores anyway (I don’t THINK that was a double play ball that the run scored on, but not sure…)

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

Robert JIB, I’m watchin ’ but not listenin’. The wife left to go see Ricky Bobby, and I cranked up the stereo beyond the “jet exhaust” level. (Thank goodness we live in the boondocks.) Thanks for having my back, man.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Well he has allowed 2 runs in his las 18 innings.

By krath

August 13, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Tommy B

I really don’t know much about any of the systems, racks etc using another controller (which I suppose is what you’d be using the Novation for) If you’re going to be recording to a computer, they say Native Instruments B4 is a very good product although I’ve never used it.

If you want an add on, the VOCE is supposed to be pretty good but you’re talking some bucks plus you have to make sure you get the drawbars with it. The leslie simulator is at least as important as the tone generator OR you can go with what I still have using a Motion sound pro 3 and low pro leslie cabs…. or real leslie. Getting that B-3 sound isn’t cheap either going with the real thing or digital lol

Huddy may be running out of gas now. Back to back hits :(

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Frenchy has to learn how to harness his arm. He knows he has the best outfield arm in the majors and thus believes he can throw out anybody. And, although he almost threw out Hall, he has to know when to use that arm and when to, as Chip Carray said, give ‘em what they earned.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Sorry to “jynx” him, everybody.

But to be honest with you, I’d take an ERA of 1.00 the rest of the way. Hell, I’d take an ERA of 3.00.

Keep it up Tim.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Now would be a good time for Bobby to think about getting him out of there. Unless he’d like to diminish his good work today, by leaving him out 1 inning too long.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Hudson didn’t look to happy to be leaving the game. I thought I saw a four letter word come out of his mouth when he turned and saw Bobby headed to the mound. Well, he better go in that dugout and do another four letter word……PRAY! I’m sure he can ask Chuck James how it is to pitch a heck of a game only to see Tyler Yates heading to the mound.

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s on the way to the mound to get huddy. I’ll say it BEFORE we know what the ‘pen does: I think he should leave him out there to finish the 7th, unless Hudson is saying he’s out of gas (and he shouldn’t be). He’s thrown 99 pitches and there’s no need to ‘protect him’ from a no-decision.

A quick hook is great when you’ve got a solid ‘pen, but we don’t, until the 8th.

Anyway, hope it works out, just thought I’d post before the benefit of hindsight.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

It appear’s Matt Diaz era has begun, he has proven to be an exelent hitter not only against left handers, but to right handers too, i dont if Bobby puts him in the starting lineup, but if i where manager i sure do.

By Moe

August 13, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

YIKES!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

This has an eerie feeling….kind of like dejavu……Throw strikes. The worst that could happen is the game is tied. Why……never mind! The bullpen has struck again!

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY DAMM YOU YATES HOPE YOU DIE……………….

By supergrass

August 13, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

the bullpen continues their mastery of losing games for starters

By nathan

August 13, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

because after all……..WHY LET TIM HUDSON BLOW HIS OWN GAME WHEN YOU HAVE A BULLPEN LIKE THIS?

0-2 COUNT! THEN HE WALKS THE GUY. THEN GROOVES THE FIRST PITCH TO TONY “THE ULTIMATE UTILITY MAN” GRANANINO!

UNBELIEVABLE.

If MLB decided to expand the playoffs and award 3 teams Wild Card positions. WE STILL WOULDN’T GET IN!

You think Wickman can pitch 3 innings everyday? Damn, I’d take Rocker’s mouth and brain over any of these guy’s arms any day of the week.

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

Geez. Baez is more than capable of going 1 1/3 of an inning. I just don’t get it. Not a Cox basher, but just don’t get it.

By Tony

August 13, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

You have got to be shitting ME!!!

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, I know there’s limits as to where you can go with an interview, and what a player will say to the press, but I’d sure love to know if Huddie wanted out of this game.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Why didn’t Bobby leave Hudson in the game. Let him try to get out of the trouble himself. Yates sucks! This bullpen sucks! Anyone who doesn’t think the main reason this team is in the position they are in is because of this beer league bullpen is crazy! Another lead. Another blown save. Yes, the starters have had trouble. However, think to the first two months of the season. How many games did Thomson, Sosa, Hudson, and Smoltz leave the game with a lead or tie only to helplessly watch the pen blow it!

By Tony

August 13, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

The Braves better hope to win this game…b/c with the Nationals and Marlins coming up…They may be 0 for the week.

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

The one criticism I’ll air of Bobby is that he’s stuck in this “one inning max” philosophy. Baez is young and strong, has been a starter, and has pitched plenty of middle relief.

Why not bring him in - if you’ve got to pull your starter - with 2 outs in the 7th.

Just threw my Whippet against the wall. The American Bulldog is still on the floor, of course.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

I hate to say this, because I was pretty jazzed about Hudson apparently turning the corner the last couple of outings. But let’s not forget, even though he gave up only 3 runs in Pittsburgh, he STILL LOST. Hard to blame him when the Offense scores only two runs…..but.

Last outing was FANTASTIC. No complaints.

Today was good, but MLB is full of guys who pitch 5 or 6 good innings and can’t finish it off. He’s our supposed ACE. Or one of them, (as long as Smoltz is still a Brave - GOOD LUCK taking that title from him), but the old Tim Hudson knew how to “finish” people off. Even this year when he is “on” he looks off.

By Tony

August 13, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

Let’s be realistic here, we are not talking about playoffs anymore…we are talking about not finishing in last place in the DIVISION….

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

MBATL, Hudson didn’t want out of the game. YOu could see him say a four letter word when he saw Bobby coming. He didn’t look happy in the dugout either. He looked pretty animated talking to Hampton.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

Hi-Speed Soul

(dedicated to the bullpen, excluding Wickman, Ray, Franklin)

do you ever feel like you just landed on this earth? see the creatures all do their dances back and forth you get restless and then you join them on the floor suddenly it’s tomorrow it’s not today anymore you talk to the ceiling every day the speakers are shaking why do i hear you okay? they’re playing soul at the wrong speed it sounds right now what are you doing to me? d’you ever feel like what we call real life is not so real? tripping up on the same old problems you had last year well we’ll pretend it’s another planet not so uptight the stars are shining above the city every night they come every night (chorus) where are we going? i don’t care our friends all left let’s go anywhere it’s getting late i don’t care it’s just you and me let’s go anywhere

Thanks to Nada Surf for their lyrics (“Hi-Speed Soul”) that seem to fit this game.

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

The bullpen woes are an organizational problem. For years all the pen needed was one steady reliver and a couple of guys with a pulse due to quality STARTING PITCHING. For the past 2 seasons, the entire pitching staff has been questionable. Perhaps JS is a slow learner and will realize this offseason that Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz aren’t his top 3 anymore. That stated, I’m hopeful that Wickman will be resigned and at least one experienced arm will be added either in the pen or the rotation.

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

Good ol’ Chipper. Good job.

By Tony

August 13, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

I agree with Nathan…if u can’t finish off the Brewers, with no Rickie Weeks(injured), Carlos Lee(traded), JJ Hardy(injured) and Kevin Mench(rested)…then you are no ace. Remember that great outing Hudson had earlier in the year against the Mets…with Beltran, Floyd, Reyes and Delgado not playing…kind of like that. And for God’s sake his last outing was against the Pirates. I was listening to ESPNradio and they were talking about how Billy Bean knew Mulder and Hudson were going downhill and that’s why he got rid of them before them before their contracts were up…well I guess he was right.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

That last swingg by Andruw says it all about his approach.

Guy on 2B (RISP) and less than 2 outs. He’s up there trying to hit it in the upper deck.

If he ever went for base hits in those situations, he’d knock in 170 runs a year.

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

I guess it’s better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late.

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Robert JIB, thanks. Didn’t see that; was giving medical attention to the dog.

I don’t blame Bobby for the failure of players to perform, but just can’t get past the decisions in the 7th. Doesn’t mean he should be fired, or that he’s not a great manager; just means that I don’t get it.

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

This is not a knock at Roger McDowell, but does anyone know if Smoltz has any interest in becoming a pitching coach once he retires? Otherwise, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him broadcasting.

By Moe

August 13, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Who can do it? Mac can!

By elbravox

August 13, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Francour needs to learn ‘situational hitting’ or he will have the worst 30 HR, 100 RBI’S ever.

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

I think Bobby realizes he’s dealing with a bullpen full of head cases and maybe he’s afraid of going out too early to get a guy for fear of turning him into a complete Wohlers…er, disaster.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

Francoeur is going to have a nice career. Maybe even a great one, when it’s all said and done. We’ve definitely found our next Dale Murphy………oh, btw, it’s not Francoeur! It’s MCCANN! He IS the face of the Braves for the next 10 years. Besides, Murphy started his career out as a Catcher too.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Well, Nathan, with the exception of McCann and occassionally Renteria, Giles, and LaRoche the entire team has that problem. And, of course, Chipper knows when to just put the bat on the ball and when to crank one.

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Yeah, we need to cling tightly to our baby Braves while we can. One day in the next decade they’ll be wearing Yankee pinstripes.

By Tony

August 13, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

As far as the bullpen goes I just hope Boyer comes back as strong as he was last year…With Wickman, Baez and Boyer…maybe, just maybe they will have a serviceable bullpen.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Sorry. The app stripped out the returns and made it unreadable. Let’s try this once more.

“Hi-Speed Soul”

(dedicated to the bullpen, excluding Wickman, Ray, Franklin)

do you ever feel like you just landed on this earth?

see the creatures all do their dances back and forth

you get restless and then you join them on the floor

suddenly it’s tomorrow, it’s not today anymore

you talk to the ceiling every day

the speakers are shaking, why do i hear you okay?

they’re playing soul at the wrong speed; it sounds right now

what are you doing to me?

do you ever feel like what we call real life is not so real?

tripping up on the same old problems you had last year

well we’ll pretend it’s another planet not so uptight

the stars are shining above the city every night

they come every night

(chorus) where are we going?

i don’t care

our friends all left

let’s go anywhere

it’s getting late

i don’t care

it’s just you and me

let’s go anywhere

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

this is the third time the bulpen blows the game for hudson, one against the Redsox, and against the reds, McCann MVP.

By elbravox

August 13, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Andruw is also a terrible situationaL HITTER

By nathan

August 13, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best)

Yeah, you are right. But Andruw seems to be the only one of all of them, that actually falls down in the batter’s box or loses his balance when “hacking” at some of those pitches. Besides, I hold him to a different standard, since he makes about 13 million a year, and has been playing for 10 years.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

I was thinking the other night wouldn’t it be nice that once Cox retires if Smoltz became manager, named Maddux his pitching coach, and Justice could be either the bench coach or hitting coach. The only thing could be is Smoltz too intense to be a manager? I think his intesity would work like it does for Leyland and Guillen. He definitely looks like manager material.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

perfect inning for Baez.

By elbravox

August 13, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

PLEASEE LET THE ONE WE DO NOT MENIONED THROW NEXT

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

Dan Kolb

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

in the past the team was talented enough to overcome some of bobby’s shortcomings. now, not so. imagine being a starter and seeing bobby come get you with a lead - knowing what is about to happen. seems never to fail.

dan kolb is in the game! kolbian experience. will the big pitcher have success?

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

RJIB,

I’d reverse it and shoot for Maddux as manager. He’s the one that everyone (including Leo) says knows more about baseball than anybody.

While we’re at it, why not his brother Mike as pitching coach starting in 2007. Give Smoltz some time to warm to the idea.

And I vote for Howard McCann for pitching coach.

Next, we’d have to figure out how to get the hitters to pay attention to him, although I suspect once he turns Francouer around, they’d all start listening.

By Snoop

August 13, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

Fo’ shizzle my kolbizzle!

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

think diaz will get a few starts now? journalist is having kolb flashbacks … maybe the big pitcher will give up a long one to thorman.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t it be nice if Diaz could establish himself here in the next six weeks as good hitter and LF and maybe in him we would have our leadoff hitter AND the money that would go into signing a free agent could go into getting more bullpen help.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

It’s comforting to know that Kolb sucks in a Brewers’ uniform as much as he did in a Braves’. Ironically, as bad as he was last year, he would be pure gold in this bullpen this year. Man, that is depressing!

By Tony

August 13, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

As far as Smoltz being a manager…I can’t recall a successful starter pitcher being a manager in baseball…period. He wouldn’t last…I could see maybe Yost or even Pendleton being the next manager of the Braves.

Have you noticed since the testing for steroids how bad the average baseball players have been. Now the real good ones like Manny Ramirez, Guerrero, Pujols, etc have still being great. But look at people like Giles and basically all the middle relief pitching in baseball have been terrible. So that leads me to believe that steroid use was out of control. Look at someone like Kolb for instance…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

First of all, I don’t think Giles was taking steroids. Secondly, if Kolb is on steroids he needs to swtich to something else because obviously they aren’t working. I thought steroids shrunk your balls not doubled your gut.

By David O'Brien

August 13, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this

Something tells me Giles will be just fine in the leadoff role the rest of the way. Too much made by him and us of the difference between leadoff and No. 2 hitting. Now that he’s hot, he’ll keep it up.

How ‘bout Kolb with long hair? Speaking of Kolb, as much credit as Leo deserves for all the reclamation projects, etc, and as much as some stats geeks like to point out how certains guys’ ERA have jumped when they leave the Braves, I was just thinking about a couple of guys in the past two years who came to the Braves and had declining performance in their first year _ Kolb, an All-Star before he came to Atlanta last season, and Hudson, the winningest AL pitcher over a five-year stretch before he came to Atlanta last year… Oh well, just random thought in my head…

Nada Surf, another excellent choice, Tommy B. You are a hip dude. And I, too, get frustrated by the returns being stripped from lyrics, so I’ve taken to doing them in paragraphs, italicized, with slash marks ending sentences within a verse, etc.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this

demerit=robertjib. carolina lady will be here soon and will read robertjib’s post. since kolb was being referenced carolina lady may let it slide. now, a 3-run lead turned over to a closer. oh, the humanity! what, wickman you say? feels pretty good to have a closer, huh? just as journalist says so, wickman is greeted with a double. still, wicky is fearsome, right?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

Wickman is gold! Get him signed for next year now. There won’t be a more affordable closer on the market. I like what I saw just now. He is in McCann’s ear showing some emotion and excitement. That is what this team needs. Lets hope this carries into Washington and Florida.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the tip, DaveOB. I’ll save it for next time I feel the need to vent in a nice way. : )

Say, I just read your piece on Wicky in today’s AJC (read it online) and wanted to compliment you on (a) choosing the RIGHT subject and (b) hitting just the right points.

There is one thing that puzzles me which I’d posed as a question earlier today. That was this.

Given… a) Wicky’s obscenely thrilling 6 for 6 (now 7 for 7) performance, b) Cleveland’s absolutely abysmal closing situation since his departure, c) the bargain basement price we paid (as in practically non-existent!)…

Why would Cleveland say yes to this trad? IOW, what element of this story is missing that would make it all make sense? There has to be something — eh?

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

I think Yates would have an ear plug.

By krath

August 13, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

TommyB,

Here’s a link to a page that tells who has come thru Asheville. Looks like a heck of an all star team actually.

Asheville Tourists

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

Don — got it figured out. Did you see the Baez brushback pitch after their batter intentionally fouled that pitch of McCann’s facemask. That’s why JS wanted him so bad. Even if it cost WB. He got grit. Also notice Kolb made no such move after we fouled pitch off their catcher shoulder? He go no grit. We also got another utility infielder to boot. I say great job JS.

By nathan

August 13, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

How dare you DOB! Are you saying that the Great Leo Mazzone can’t fix everybody, and that his philosophy and style of coaching may actually hurt otherwise good pitchers?

Shame on YOU!

Just kidding man, I’ve bee saying the EXACT same thing for about a 9 months, or however long it’s been since Leo signed with Baltimore. Yes he was good. Yes he’s had success. Yes he’s turned some guys careers around - in the good way. But……

He had a staff full of Cy Young winners for a decade. Glavine is fine without him. Maddux has had limited success without him. Smoltz is OBVIOUSLY fine without him. Which says to me…..GOOD PITCHERS WILL EVENTUALLY FIGURE IT OUT IF THEY LOSE IT. That includes Tim Hudson…..just not sure if I’m patient enough to wait for it! And at 12 million dollars in 2008, I’m not sure the Braves should be either.

So back to Smoltz. If McDowell was/is so bad, how does Smoltz get past his crappy coaching to succeed?

PS: If you go to the front page of the braves official website. Check out the picture of Hudson from today. I get a kick out of how contorted (sp?) his facial expressions are when he’s pitching. Anybody else think when he’s making that face he looks like “Smalls” from the movie, The Sandlot?

That’s all.

By krath

August 13, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Pete tipped this story from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel by Tom Haudricourt.

It’s so short I just copied and pasted instead of linking it. Interesting read lol

*Hearing voices Cincinnati’s Ryan Freel is a bit different from other players. For beginners, there’s Farney.

Who’s Farney, you ask?

“He’s a little guy who lives in my head who talks to me and I talk to him,” Freel recently told reporters.

After making a highlight-reel catch last week on a deep drive by St. Louis’ Albert Pujols, Freel said he got Farney’s seal of approval.

“That little midget in my head said, ‘That was a great catch, Ryan,’ ” he said. “I said, ‘Hey, Farney, I don’t know if that was you who really caught that ball but that was pretty good if it was.’

“Everybody thinks I talk to myself, so I tell ‘em I’m talking to Farney.”

Perhaps the uninhibited Freel has crashed into a few too many outfield walls.*

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

TommyB, Cleveland was going nowhere this year, and dumped salary (and they obviously didn’t plan on paying Wickman next year) and picked up a class A allstar catcher - a longterm prospect but a good one - which is a position they needed to build on. That’s why they did the deal…

By nathan

August 13, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

I wonder who Al Habrowsky was talking to?

Nice read krath. Thanx.

By MBATL

August 13, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

Remember that Hudson only made $4 mil this year… less than Thomson. He did get a nice signing bonus, but we’re not yet paying him like a #1. Not an excuse for poor performance, obviously, but a fact…

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

Nathan—you make sense. Scary thing and is in short supply sometimes. Leo was great in the situation he was in. Right place, right time. May not ever capture the lightning in that bottle again.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

Thanks, MBATL. Were there other dumps besides Wickman?

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

krath,

Gracias for the Tourists page. Pretty amazing. And Bruce Dal Canton? Had no idea. Luis Gonzalez and Kenny Lofton. Dang!

By Head Coach

August 13, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

Speaking of pitching coach’s , what in the hell were the Brewers thinking in the seventh inning today ? Pitching to McCann who is arguably the best hitter in the National league , with a base open and two out ? that was flat out stupid. I dont know who made that call and whether it was Ned Yost or Mike Maddux. Either way somebody had his head up his butt. Ryan Freel can talk to any imaginary little person he wants to , the guy can flat out play and I wanted the Braves to trade for him back in April , too late now ! As for the Braves conceding anything…….. not gonna happen. Bobby Cox will have this team playing hard right up till the last out of game 162. I just hope they call up the kids when the 40 man roster expansion comes and Bobby lets them play so they can get a feel for who will be on the team in 2007. Go Braves !

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

I’m thinking Freel would fit in nicely in our e-neighborhood, wouldn’t he?? :-)))

By Tonight on TBS

August 13, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

Looking For Mr. Aybar (1977)

A Carolina lady (Diane Keaton) starts to spend her nights cruising the cable channels, craving the excitement that only a new, switch-hitting, utility infielder can provide. What she doesn’t know is that he’s on the disabled list.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, very nice article on Bob Wickman! How did a good ol’ boy wind up being from Wisconsin? Looks and sounds as if he would be right at home in our South! :-)

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

Talk about timing! :-)))

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

MBATL, Anybody:

Why didn’t Cleveland “open up bidding” on Wickman? IOW, why wouldn’t teams in the hunt(s) be clamoring for him? Maybe they didn’t know he was on the market. If not, why not? ?

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

Evening Carolina Lady. How’s your mom tonite? Fine I hope. I could have my{head people] talk to his {head} people. It would be awesome.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

Head Coach-If you’re still here-good call on the pitching to McCann instead of Frenchy with 1st base open. They probably were trying to pitch around him,but the pitcher missed badly and left a ball over the plate. The pitcher’s reaction seemed to indicate this IMO.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 07:37 PM | Link to this

Hey, 35! Mom is doing pretty well this evening. She has eaten well (for her) today and is in much less pain. Y’all keep those prayers coming!!

I’ll tell you a story: in 1976 she was diagnosed with end-stage pancreatic cancer. The xrays, scans, lab work and exploratory surgery all confirmed it. Terminal. Told she had 30 - 60 days to live, she was basically sent home to die. Much prayer was offered. A friend at Mayo Clinic made arrangements for her to be seen there; 2 weeks after she was sent home, I had her in Rochester, MN. Mayo is undoubtedly one of the most esteemed medical facilities in the world. They are thorough and meticulous. After running every test and exam known to man, they shook their collective heads, because not one trace of the cancer was found, her pancreas was in perfect condition, all blood and lab work was perfect. No cancer was found. That was 1976. Prayer is powerful and no one will ever be able to convince me otherwise.

baseball: doesn’t Bob Wickman seem like the kind of guy with whom you’d be very comfortable just chatting over a cup of coffee or over the backyard fence? I sure hope JS re-signs him! Finally someone with real Veteran Presence!

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 07:43 PM | Link to this

If I were JS, I’d be working on an extension for Wickman now. I wouldn’t want to enter the offseason wondering who the closer in 07 is going to be; haven’t we done that several years running?

By Alex

August 13, 2006 07:45 PM | Link to this

Another HR by Jeff with nobody on base…yes, I agree…the worst season of 30HR and 100RBI by a Brave in the last 15 years!

Brian has to pick up the slack, b/c Andrew’s goal is catch up in the HR race and win it…that’s what it looks like every time he’s got an AB. I can count the numbers he’s tried to hit to the opposite field on one hand for the entire season! Will someone tell TP to do his job and tell these guys who to hit for average and how to work the count!? And if they don’t listen…bench them! That’s right, next time…Jeff sees an pitcher who is struggling with his control, walk the bases loaded, then walk in a run…and then Jeff swings at the first pitch and fouls it off..bench him. Right there and then! Infront of everyone! Make an example of him. Otherwise he will always be a .250 hitter just like Andrew!

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 07:45 PM | Link to this

Should Wickman blow all of his remaining save opportunities, he’s a better option than anyone else we’ve got.

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this

Guys, Francoeur has barely played the equivalent of 1 full season, plus he’s 22. Like Obi Wan Kenobi said of Luke when Yoda doubted him, “He will learn patience.”

By Now in Theaters

August 13, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

The Wicky Man (2006)

New arrival “Wicky” Wickman (Nicolas Cage), investigates the disappearance of control from a Southern bullpen. He soon discovers that the beleaguered staff can’t even sacrifice when called upon. Despite his unhygienic game-ending ritual, he tries to save the day. Impressive performance by Mr. Cage, who gained 100 pounds for the role.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady—great, great story on your Mom. I have heard similar. The doc’s don’t know it all, and sometimes there is intervention that they will never understand by looking in their microscopes and medical journals. There looking in the wrong book. Baseball: C. Lady, I don’t know if a cup of coffee would do it. Maybe a buffet.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

35, roger on the buffet! :-)))

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

Typo Typo-meant they are , not there

By krath

August 13, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this

Tommy B

Willie Stargell, Dick Sisler, Dennis Martinez, Craig Biggio, Dave Conception, Eddie Murray, Sean Green, Dock Ellis, John Thompson… even the esteemed former Braves broadcaster Darrell Cheney lol played here.

Seriously… if you go down the list on that link you can see lots of great big leaguers who played here. Sparky Anderson managed here. So did Cal Ripken SR. Cal Jr played Legion ball here.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 08:06 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, Just read where genealogist believe and I quote the article “100% of all living people descended from one Royal Personage or another.” So whom do you claim?? How about journalist Jimmy, Lew,Grinch journalist Bob and all the gang?? Some funny thoughts here…..

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 08:09 PM | Link to this

On preseason football: While I’m glad that football is back on TV, I can’t get too excited about scrimmage games because the object isn’t to win.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 08:11 PM | Link to this

• Lineup:

• C Brian Mccann

• 1B Ryan Howard

• 2B Brandon Phillips

• 3B Ryan Zimmerman

• SS Freddie Sanches

• LF Andre Ethier

• CF David De Jesus

• RF Jeff Franceour

• Bench:

• 3B/ Util IF Wilson Beitemet

• SS/ Of Armando Almezaga

• LF/ OF Matt Diaz

• 2B/ Util Ryan Freel

• C Chris Coste

• Pitchers:

• SP Liriano Santana

• SP Jared Weaver

• SP Josh Johnson

• SP Joe Saunders

• SP Felix Hernandez

• RHP Jonathan Papelbon

• RHP Huston Street

• RHP Adam Wainwright

• RHP Jonathan Broxton

• LHP McCay McBride

• LHP Taylor Tankersley

• RHP Phil Stockman

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

Best Rookie team, in my point of view.

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this

From the world of MLB 06: The Show, the 2007 Braves (currently up 2 games to none in NLCS over the Astros) look like this: Giles, Renteria, the Joneses, McCann, LaRoche, Francouer, Jason Kubel (platooning with Jeff), Brad Wilkerson (in left). Bench: C-Rene Rivera, 1b-Ben Broussard, 2b-Martin Prado, 3d-Mike Lamb, OF-kelly Johnson. Pitchers: Hudson, Dontrelle, Liriano, Zach Duke, Marquis. Pen: James, Wickman, Reitsma, Braden Looper, Scott Eyre, Blaine Boyer.

By Lew

August 13, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this

35-In the late 60’s, a PhD student at UVA in geneaology, decided to trace his family tree as his doctoral dissertation. About 7 or 8 generations in he realised it wasn’t his family. It was, however, my mother’s family. There is a two inch thick book called The Boston Family of Maryland. In the first edition (this line was negated in the second edition), he had the family traced back to Charlemagne and later to William the Conqueror. Now we found out that Charlemagne wasn’t kin, but we’re not sure about old Bill.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this

Lew— I’m betting on ole Bill, from the way I have seen you ‘get after it’ with some goofballs on this very blog.

By Lew

August 13, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

35-I don’t know. I mean they could have left me a castle or a crown, or something. Maybe something saying MY Grandparents Went to Hastings and All I Got Was This Lousy Coat of Chain Mail.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

35, most of my lineage is provable back to the late 1600s. There is no one of whom the world would take notice and of no import except to my own family. Good, ordinary, hard-working people. Without going into the subject further, I know from whom I descend and it ain’t a monkey! :-))

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

Lew- I know I must be related to ‘royalty’ in some way, because just the other day at Wal-Mart I was reaching behind the front rows of bread to get the fresh ones behind[you know stock rotation] and the bread guy who was near said something about “royal————-” I didn’t get the last part because he was muttering inder his breath.

By Lew

August 13, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

35-Sounds like you could use the chain mail.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady— I feel the same way although I have been called “Darwin’s best argument”.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

Howdy CLady,

Glad to hear Mom’s having a good day.

That was one incredible story about her ‘76 diagnosis. Wow.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

Lew— amen.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

35, you are great! :-)))

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

Thanks, TommyB. Every word true!

35, I forgot to mention that journalist jimmy smith and I believe we share a common ancestor back the the late 1600s-early 1700s. Small world, huh?! :-))

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

Mad Dog Pitching on ESPiN’s Sunday Night Baseball

And on HD! Bottom of the 3rd, no score. Maddux just advanced the runner to 3rd. Furky at bat.

Go Dodgers!

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady- no doubt famous person. Now you’ve gone and done it saying “small world”. Ever since visiting Disney World several moons ago, and going thru their “small world” attraction, ever time I hear that phrase— [small world] I go around for days— It’s a small world after all, it’s a small world after all—well you get the idea.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

Maddux, Continued

This is pretty wild. It’s the Braves West (Dodgers) with Mad Dog on the mound… facing the Giants with (former Brave) Jason Schmidt. And… managed by (former Brave) Felipe Alou.

Right now, (former Asheville Tourist and Brave) Kenny Lofton batting with 2 out and 2 on, bottom of the 3rd.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

Oops, 35! Sorry! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been through that exhibit!! Coolest place on the grounds, though, so I didn’t protest! :-))))

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

Rafael Furcal, Wilson Beitemet, JD Drew, Kenny Lofton, and Greg Maddux, all former braves.

By 10-7-4

August 13, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady—it’s a small world after all,it’s a small world after all, it’s a small world after all, it’s a small small world. Its a small world after all—aaaaaaaaaggggg. I better go take my meds.Good night.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 09:06 PM | Link to this

‘Night, 35! Sleep well!! :-)

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

Thomas,

Add Odalis Perez and Grady Little, Manager (former Braves minor league manager).

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this

After 5 innings, Maddux has not thrown more than 9 pitches in an inning.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this

Tommy B Odalis was traded.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

Look at the pitchers that have been with the Braves, and been allstars, Odalis Perez, Kevin Millwood, Jason Schmidit, Denny Neagle, Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Tim Hudson, and John Smoltz.

By TommyB

August 13, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

Oops. You be Right, Thomas.

Through 6, Maddux has 1-hit the Giants, retired 16 in a row, and thrown 43 pitches.

By sir jimmy smith, journalist

August 13, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

jimmy smith is of english descent - and might rightly claim the title sir jimmy smith, gentleman. jimmy smith’s ancestor at agincourt had the honour of bearing the banner of st george in battle while doing journalism between battles. the jimmy smith castle is an english national treasure. jimmy smith’s family came to north america in the 1600’s in search of a better dental plan -even the queen mum had bad teeth in england. now, where is bob with his story? did bob sleep through today’s game?

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this

Did Maddux had a complete game where he threw only 65 pitches.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

Hey, Sir journalist jimmy smith, gentleman! Since we don’t have a banner to put up on the wall for ‘06, may we please borrow yours??

By David O'Brien

August 13, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, thanks. And yes, Wickman is as down-to-earth as they come. A bit gruff, but in a good way. I like that in a player. I don’t care if they’d just as soon not talk to the media. He’s there at his locker to talk after he pitches, and that’s all we can ask. Otherwise, he’s all about doing his job, none of the side stuff. Fine by me. Long as his teammates like him and he’s getting it done on the field, that’s all that matters.

Maddux tonight _ the master, still. Amazing. With an 84 mph fastball, he does what he’s doing.

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this

who will win the NL shorstop this year, Vizquel, Renteria, or Everett.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this

I think what everyone has to remember, my self included, is that Francoeur is basically in his first season and is only 22. He is a raw talent and he will learn. Andruw still goes up there swinging away but truthfully he doesn’t do it nearly as bad as he did 6 or 7 years ago. I, also, think its unfair to have a tone or make snide comments about Francoeur hitting homeruns with no one on base because you dang well know he has plenty with runners on base. Lets not forget he won that game Friday night.

I also had an epiphany today watching and listening to the game. I heard Bobby Cox say at least 4 different times to guys running to 1st base, “easy now”. So, when we see these guys jog down to 1st, are they doing it because they don’t hustle or are they doing it on orders from the dugout?

By berigan

August 13, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

Maddux, no runs thru 7 innings.

By David O'Brien

August 13, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

BTW, next time you’re in the local video rental store, I’d strongly suggest anyone into the Tarantino-style violence rent “Oldboy,” which is better than anything Tarantino’s done at least since Pulp Fiction.

It’s a Korean movie about a guy seeking the utlimate revenge after being imprisoned for 15 years. Can’t even begin to explain it, but it’s so intense, so very original, with twists and turns you’ll never, ever expect. Rent it, I guarantee you’ll love it, long as you’re not turned off by a bit of realistic violence and a guy eating a live squid (oh, you’ll never forget that scene, folks).

And if you rent it, watch it with the original Korean language and English subtitles. You can choose that or dubbed English, but it’s far better to see the real actor’s voices. Great acting, soooo intense. That’s “Oldboy,” still in the new releases section of Blockbuster.

By berigan

August 13, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

make that 8!!!!

By JJMB

August 13, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

Stu Klitennik (probably misspelled) and Mark Lemke are perhaps the most boring radio in the universe. Does anyone out there in Braveland like these shameless, monotone shills?

By Lew

August 13, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

Esteemed Sir James-Agincourt? Not Poitiers?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

Maddux has been great tonight and since he arrived in L.A. However, I think a caution should be heeded with him. He is prone to breaking down and beginning to struggle. Don’t forget he was setting the world on fire with the Cubs in April and then he just started to look awful. If the Dodgers are basing their playoff hopes on him, then they could be in trouble. There are still seven weeks left in this season. I, mean, in seven weeks the Twins went from being totally out it and a good six or seven games over .500 to a team that is 14 to 15 games over. Anything can happen!

By berigan

August 13, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

DOB, the bogs blogging down…I mean, the blogs bogging

By Thomas

August 13, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

Grady Little is the stuppiest man I know.When he needs to leave a pitcher he changes it, and when he needs to get him out of the game he leaves him( Pedro in tha ALCS. )

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

Little is going with the “Cox rule”. When a starter is going well, pull him and put in the bullpen who is sure to blow the game. It is a strange strategy but seems to work every time.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this

lew, permit journalist to be frank - journalist is unaware of ancestors at poitiers - or is lew referring to the second battle of poitiers? yes, but jimmy smith is ugandan, right? it is a difficult story to tell involving a long trek by hartebeest. did jimmy smith mention the voyage by sea? cabot? oh, the humanity! carolina lady, those are not banners - they are little signs nailed to the stadium wall. we are supposed to think they are pennants of some kind.

if sja were here he’d say something about dob liking his billy goat gruff. good thing sja retired from the blog so we are not exposed to something like billy goat gruff from a blogger. oh, the humanity! jimmy smith just realized that jimmy smith said the bad thing in sja’s absence. dob must please forgive journalist jimmy smith. that was stuppie of jimmy smith.

By Chop Chop

August 13, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

Ahhh…lots of bloggin’ fun, I see.

Once again, the best thing that came out of a Braves game: Wickman and McCann yuking it up after another save.

Even if Wickman is only with the team for the rest of this season, I’ll always remember him imparting some wisdom to a young All-Star catcher who has a chance to be a great one for a long time to come.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

jimmy smith is catching up on the blog. carolina lady, it is good to read a such a good report - hope carolina lady’s mama continues to feel better.

lew, was the hartebeest a good study? most have good manners - almost all are bi-lingual.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this

I think here is the best way to descirbe McCann and Francoeur. I see them like Justice and Gant. Gant was the more physically gifted player but didn’t have the astute knowledge of the game Justice did. Justice knew situations and knew how to play the game. He knew when to place that beautiful swing of his in thrasher mode and when to place it in contact mode. Gant, on the other hand, just went up to the plate thrashing. Remember Gant was up before Justice but got sent back down to the minors because he wouldn’t learn some discipline. Well, in 1991 it all came together. Gant still would hack but you saw how what he went through in 1990 helped him be more selective when it counted most. Justice on the other hand flourished in 1990 won the rookie of the year and emerged as superstar in 1991. Well, this is McCann and Francoeur’s 1990 and next year I truly believe will be there 1991. Lets just hope that Francoeur doesn’t pull a Gant with the dirt bike or whatever the heck it was he broke his leg on. Gant was never really the same after that. The only thing that makes me believe that won’t happen is that Francoeur seems to have a little more sense than Gant did at that age.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this

Sir journalist gentleman jimmy smith, we still don’t have anything to nail to the wall for ‘06. If you still have the banner to which you referred earlier, may we borrow it, please? We’ll clean it. Wouldn’t do anything stuppie with it. Would a little rain hurt it?

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

If a pen has a solid closer (i.e, Wickman)it’s easier to piece together the other arms needed. The Braves will probably need at least $5 mill to keep him, but that should be within budget with the departures of Thomson and probably Giles.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

well, carolina lady, the banner is quite old and priceless - not like the pressboard signs currently in place. still, if carolina lady will have it cleaned and be certain that no beer is spilled on it from above … journalist guesses it would not be inappropriate. think it would be okay with henry v? could someone ask henry v? how about dob? oh, how stuppie of jimmy smith! henry v is dead now since 1422! better not use the banner carolina lady - might offend francoeur (french sissy). have to be pc these days.

By Glass Half Full

August 13, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

I know JS and BC are sentimental and all, but can we not even consider a Reitsma return next year? That would save at least $3 mill.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

perhaps you saw journalist jimmy smith on antiques road show a few months back with the banner of st. george from agincourt. journalist was pleasantly surprised. banner no longer hangs in journalist’s rec room - has been put away for safekeeping. the banner is a favorite of baby seal. wait? it’s not here! where is the banner of st. george? oh, the humanity! has baby seal taken the banner to canada for warmth? or has someone been coveting journalist’s banner since roadshow? journalist must go now and investigate.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 11:20 PM | Link to this

Ok, Sir journalist cousin gentleman jimmy smith. I understand about the banner. Being priceless and all, it would be better to keep it out of the weather.

re: PC - nope, I refuse to follow that false doctrine! It’s stuppie!!

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this

Sorry I missed that episode!

Wait a minute! Does that banner have a shield-looking thing on it???? The one we used to wash baby seal with after the unfortunate encounter with one of the skunks???

oh, no. Oh, the humanity……….

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 13, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

No way Reitsma is on this roster next year. But, I have a feeling if they can’t sign Baez and Wickman, which they probably won’t then Reitsma will be the setup guy. BC and JS will rationalize in their mind that Reitsma only pitched the way he did the last year+ because he was injured. That may be true but I am not willing to take that chance.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this

oh, the humanity! jimmy smith is ruined! there goes retirement for this journalist. now, jimmy smith will be climbing stadium ramps for years to come - eating cheese - drinking stale root beer -following in the footsteps of dob and the old journalist. now, jimmy smith will be forced to be an old journalist listening to old country music stars (some dead-some alive). maybe if the banner is soaked in listerine? what does carolina lady think?

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

I go down to the pond at first light and see if it’s still there….. I guess clorox is out of the question, right? Maybe Listerine will do it. If I find it, do you want to clean it or shall I try?

By Moe

August 13, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

Omar Vizquel: is that guy impeccable (both batting and fielding) or what?

Does he get to go to the hall of fame?

By journalist jimmy smith

August 13, 2006 11:47 PM | Link to this

jimmy smith leaves the banner of st. george in carolina lady’s good hands … remember that it is quite old. history demands that we make this effort - also wachovia will appreciate it on behalf of journalist jimmy smith. if the banner is recovered and restored journalist is going to put it on e-bay right away! wanna go splits with it carolina lady? there should be a reward for laundering it properly.

By Carolina Lady

August 13, 2006 11:50 PM | Link to this

you bet!! I’ll get on it first thing in the morning! Going to sleep now so I can get up when the sun does!

By flbravesgirl

August 13, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this

I was away while the game started, so of course when I turn it on the first thing I see is Hudson leaving and Yates blowing the lead. Thank goodness it improved from there. 4 RBIs for McCann! I just love that kid!

Carolina Lady and 10-7-4, if you think “Small World” sticks in your brain, the song they play on the boat ride in Mexico at EPCOT is even worse. I can’t understand any of the words but my sister and I can perfectly sing the tune in la-la-las.

Lew, I just checked my emails and found your second batch of pics. Wonderful! The likeness of Bobby Dews is particularly good. (Don’t you think he looks kind of “elfin”?) And sorry I didn’t answer sooner, I live in Bradenton (down at the southern end of Tampa Bay).

By Don

August 14, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

Dave, you can’t keep your stories straight. The Braves were still going after the wild card when they made the trade but then they knowingly went two weeks with a leadoff hitter who couldn’t really swing the bat just to evaluate him?

Spin it boy, spin it.

By Don

August 14, 2006 12:37 AM | Link to this

Dave, I didn’t see Aybar’s error, have never made a comment on it. Despite that, you somehow have inferred my thoughts on it and have also somehow determined that I don’t understand that pitchers like Maddux who work quickly and throw strikes get better fielding behind them than guys like Jeff Weaver who throw a ton of pitches and stomp around the mound for thirty seconds between every pitch. Yeah, that’s real inside baseball stuff you only get in the press box and sniffing jocks after the game. Those of us who played the game when we were young and who have followed the game for more years than you have don’t understand that kind of sophisticated stuff.

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 12:45 AM | Link to this

You’re comical. As in, a joke. Good thing you want need this ‘boy” to answer your questions anymore. And by the way, you seem like the most dreary soul we’ve had on the blog. even the SJA had some spunk, some zest. you’re just … depressing.

all others, i’ll try to spin … er, answer any requests you’ve had. but unless debby downer uses a different name to post his, we’re done with his depressing queries. played as a kid … huh. sure. riiight.

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 12:49 AM | Link to this

that’s “won’t,” not want. I’ll admit, your posts get me so angry, i fire off responses without even reading them over. so if that’s the response you seek, feel good about it. you’ve got it. no one, ever, on this blog, has been as frustrating to me as you, don. no one.

because you can’t be reasoned with. others can, you can’t. so i give up. you have your opinions, just please don’t ask me mine.

By chopthis

August 14, 2006 12:50 AM | Link to this

Dave,

“Oldboy” better than “Jackie Brown” or “Kill Bill Vol. 2”?

Don’t make me get medieval on your a*s.

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this

chopthis, it really is better than both of those. i’m serious. if it was in english, it would have been HUGE hit in u.s. it’s just a great film. i don’t usually look for the subtitled flicks, but it’s one of those where you’re so into it you forget you’re even reading subtitles. it received four-star reviews from a bunch of respected critics, by the way, which i didn’t know until i saw the box. ebert and several others gave it four stars.

you’ll love it if you like tarantino. you rent it and tell me it’s not better than jackie brown and both kill bills. i’ll bet you’re blown away by it.

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 01:03 AM | Link to this

gotta shut down the laptop and pack it up. wake-up call in 4 hours, since i’ve got to be at the damn airport 2-1/2 hours before my flight. that’s probably not necessary, but on a monday morning out of hartsfield, headed to reagan airport in D.C., i don’t think i’ll risk cutting it any closer this soon after last week’s developments.

talk to you all tomorrow.

By Don

August 14, 2006 01:04 AM | Link to this

That’s it Dave, keep ducking the issues, attack me instead.

Bobby Cox tells you that he knowingly batted a guy with a bad hand in the leadoff spot for two weeks in the middle of a critical stretch of games and apparently that sounds reasonable to you, brilliant observer of baseball that you are.

By chopthis

August 14, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this

Well, at least you didn’t say it was better than “Pulp Fiction.” I’d have had to sic the Southern Jackass on your a*s if you had.

As to this problem with Don, I’s sending the Wolf.

I’ll rent “Oldboy” and we’ll see what we see. Tarantino can’t be topped for great dialogue, though, especially if I have to scan across the bottom of the screen to enjoy it.

Seen “Clerks II” yet? Even more crude than the original, but I loved it — except for the cheap, sellout ending.

By Lew

August 14, 2006 01:09 AM | Link to this

Oh, The Humanity.

By Head Coach

August 14, 2006 01:44 AM | Link to this

Don , Bobby Cox knows the Braves are not going to make the playoffs but he isnt going to let up on his players. He will have this team giving 100 percent effort for the remaining 46 games they have left. They have pride and a paycheck to play for and you never know , they might get the opportunity to knock another team out of the playoffs at the end of the season. The Aybar ,Baez trade for Betemit was done in order to benefit the team in 2007 and most fans havent figured that out yet. Shcuerholx and Cox will never publicly concede the season and they shouldnt , its bad for team moral. Go Braves !

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 06:35 AM | Link to this

the morning breaks over a new week, and less than 50 to play…all the talk of St. George, Agincourt, and antecedents, just call us a band of brothers (and sisters). For he that sheds his (blog) this day, etc. BTW, don’t see anybody claiming to be descended from Harold at Hastings…DOB, wonder what guys like Shirley Povich, Bob Considine, Stanley Woodward, and anybody named Lardner would have thought about blogs? I pay money to see some of THOSE posts…Robert, Gant was sent down to learn to play the outfield, not because of his plate discipline…a subtitled Korean flick compared to “Pulp Fiction”? In most cases, I’d be suggesting white coats and restraints. But I will defer judgement for the moment…onward and upward. Time for me ride, boldly ride, and clary a few things for the customers. Good day, all.

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 06:52 AM | Link to this

Chopthis, yes, saw Clerks II. I agree with your assessment. Loved it, but the ending was a bit weak. Still, very funny stuff.

Well, folks, here’s the report on Hartsfield. I got here just before 6 a.m. and the regular security lines were already out through the atrium into the food courts. At 5:50 a.m.! Even the priority boarding security line was doubled back all way down to the T-Gate exit point, if you know where I’m talking about. About three times longer than I’ve ever seen the priority boarding line.

And we’re going to get screened again, I guess, before we board.

Tonight at about 11 p.m. at RFK, I’m gonna be feeling rather fresh and energetic, I’d imagine…

But on a bright note … how ‘bout our boy Maddux last night. Was that a game, or what? How strange to see him in that Dodgers uni? The other guys _ Drew, Betemit, even Furcal, don’t look quite so strange in the Dodger uni. Well, maybe Furcal. But Maddux … that just looked wrong.

Downer, He was 0-for-4 with 2K last night, a rare bad night. I’m going to try to update for you each morning, in case you haven’t seen a box score yet, so you can write the info on the poster you probably have by your bed. Talk about jock-sniffing…. That’s unabashed adulation. It’s cute, actually.

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 07:00 AM | Link to this

NCscoots, top o’ the morning. Hope you’re up typing rather early, my man.

Hey, I know “subtitled Korean flick” sounds a bit lame. But it’s every bit as gnarly and wonderfully twisted and surprising as Pulp Fiction. See it and tell me if I’m nuts. It’ll only cost you, what , $4? It’ll be worth it, guarantee you.

BTW, can you imagine if baseball teams lost superstar players to injury in the first week of spring training? I mean, sure, it happens on rare occasions. But it seems like 3-4 NFL stars get hurt every year in the first week of exhibition games, if not more.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 14, 2006 07:31 AM | Link to this

I hope the Braves are ready to go into Washington and win at least 3 of 4. I read where Chipper said they can’t lose any games on this road trip. It would be nice for them to go 7-0.

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 07:46 AM | Link to this

Robert, that’ll be next to impossible, given the way Soriano wrecks the Braves and the way that Florida’s young pitchers do against them.

If they can win both series, they’d have to, at least privately, be quite pleased.

Soriano, by the way: .388 with NINE HOMERS and 20 RBIS in 11 games against the Braves the past two seasons. Astounding.

Andruw’s been almost as good against Nats, however.

OK, gotta go catch this 8:30 flight. Take care, all.

By chopthis

August 14, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

Dave,

Maybe your method of movie review differs from mine, but in terms of brilliant twistedness, “Pulp Fiction” and that Ko-ree-an flick ain’t the same thing. Ain’t no f-ckin’ ballpark, neither. Ain’t even the same league. Ain’t even the same f-ckin’ sport.

Now let’s hear no more about it.

When you little scamps get together, you’re worse than a sewing circle.

By TommyB

August 14, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

Mornin’ All: Seeing Maddux last night doing his thing so effortlessly and so WELL was a WONDERFUL THING, wasn’t it? Wow! (Man, Don Johnson doesn’t seem to be aging well, does he?)

Oldboy, huh? Never heard of that one, Dave. And I do try. (I am one movie addict… but it goes into hiatus during baseball season.) Nevertheless, it’s now atop my Netflix list so it should be here in time for the next off night/weekend day.

Head Coach: IMHO, you are right about Cox/Schuerholz not publicly conceding, but they certainly know the score.

Don: What position did you play in your playing days?

Dave: Your Hartsfield report is well taken. I do hope things improve in the coming week or so. Had been set to fly to LaGuardia last Thursday (the day things went wacky) and definitely chose to reschedule. I’d appreciate any more Hartsfield reports in the coming days you’d choose to share.

By dadgum

August 14, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

Cox, JS, and company won’t admit it and they shouldn’t but the Braves are basically auditioning players at this point both to trade and acquire during the off season or before. The wild card chance, while many of you cling to hope, is pretty much akin to that spider being flushed down the toilet. Well you get the picture……..

The interesting thing about baseball to me is the off season trades and watching the Braves piece back together the team. This year will be perhaps the busiest off season in Braves history. So as not to be accused of stating the obvious I will give a few trades that may not seem so obvious if that’s possible.

With Matt Diaz coming on strong, I think the Braves may have an answer long term in LF. That would mean that Scott Thorman (with his potential) would be an excellent trade piece especially given how well LaRoche is playing. Frankly there just isn’t anywhere on this team for Thorman now. Look for Thorman to get some playing time in front of teams that may have an interest in him especially if they have players we covet. Ditto Langerhans.

I know the Braves are high on Escobar and Prado but I see one of them being in a trade especially if Giles is retained. The Braves are going to need a top tier pitcher and will have to deal from their fruitful farm in order to get one. That is of course unless they attempt to move Andruw for said pitcher(s).

NOw the obvious….Giles. He is great defensively and adequate offensively. The Braves love him but….He plays 2nd. Perhaps the most expendable position on any team. Unless of course you are Soriano prior to this year. The hotter Giles gets the better the trade. I think that the Braves will have to move him, especially if they sign Andruw, to acquire the pitchers etc. that we need.

I don’t think the Braves are going to give up on Hudson after this season. However, with Smoltz anchored at #1 on the depth chart and Hudson somewhere about #3 at best we need to acquire that proven starter for a #2 and possible #1 to replace Smoltz given his age in the next couple of years. The rest - Hampton, James, Davies, Ramirez, Thomson are all coming off injuries or some just need more experience. Nevertheless, none of them can be expected to anchor a #2 or #3 spot in the rotation. We all we give Hampton time and he might surprise but I want him to surprise at that #4 spot. The bottom line is that there are just too many ifs surrounding our pitchers not to go after a prime pitcher. We are assuming though that we can get one with what we are dangling out there. That’s why we pay JS the big bucks……Right?

By LeTwan Anthony

August 14, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

LeTwan was just thinking how good a slice of pie and cup of coffee would be right now. LeTwan will be back later.

By KC

August 14, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

Unbelievable! The way this year has gone to this point, I can’t believe we’re still in a post-season race… but we are. We are 6 games back, but only 5 back in the loss column. That’s the most important column of course if you’re planning on winning more games than you lose. The Braves will obviously have to win quite a few more than they lose the rest of the way. Anyway, there’s good news and there’s bad news… We’ll get the bad news out of the way first.

The bad news is that we only have 3 starters. Ouch. We just have to hope and pray that we can get a few quality starts out of our AAA call-ups, and that Kyle Davies can come back strong later this month.

The good news is that we’ve finally got a couple of starters not named John Smoltz throwing well (Hudson and James). Also, Chipper Jones is back, and with him in the lineup Atlanta’s offense is quite possibly the best in the league. And again, we’re only 5 games out in the loss column.

It’s important to understand that gaining ground on .500 teams like Philadelphia, Colorado, Arizona, San Diego, and Cincinnati, is considerably easier than gaining ground on a team like the Mets, or the Tigers. When you’re chasing good teams, you can go on a lengthy winning streak and barely gain any ground. But in this case, the Braves are one 7-8 game win streak or one 10 out of 13 winning stretch away from finding themselves only a game or two out of the wild card lead.

A five game deficit behind the Tigers is actually more like an 8-9 game deficit, because they’re probably not going to cooperate by losing to let you catch up. But a 5 game deficit behind the Padres or the Reds, is really more like a 3 game deficit.

When HoRam went down, I felt all of the Brave’s hopes went with him. That may have been a bit premature. The Braves definitely still have a shot. Again, with Chipper in the fold (let’s hope he can stay healthy!), the Braves are a much better offensive team than any in the Wild Card race. With Wickman and Baez, Atlanta’s bullpen is as solid as any in this particular race. And if Smoltz, Hudson, and James are all going right… this team’s in pretty good shape. There’s still a chance of HoRam coming back this season. It’s not over yet folks.

By geauxbraves2000

August 14, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

I haven’t read every post so I apologize if this has been mention. Why is a call up starter following Smoltz? I think if you want momentum, you have to follow Smoltz with Hudson (if he’s on), then maybe there’ll be a domino effect. I know the rotation isn’t lined up like that now, but maybe it needs to get fixed. IMHO

Geaux Braves!!

By geauxbraves2000

August 14, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

Another thing, until the Braves are officially eliminated, I refuse to give up.

By Carolina Lady

August 14, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Sir cousin journalist gentleman jimmy smith, the banner has been located. It’s condition is awf …. uh …. is …. piti …. ummm …. well, it’s here. I can’t tell you how sorry I am. baby seal referred to it as his blanky so I didn’t question it. I did rather wonder why you’d given him such an old, worn-out looking thing for a blanket, but again, it wasn’t mine to question.

It’s now been through the washer 6 times and there are signs of improvement. The Listerine definitely helps! The red of the cross is hardly discernable now but magic marker will take care of that, right? Will keep you advised on progress.

By KC

August 14, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

geauxbraves2000:

I guess the flip-side to that is that you don’t want AAA call-ups going in consecutive starts as that could get the snowball rolling in the wrong direction.

By Carolina Lady

August 14, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

I forgot to mention: 26 bottles of Febreeze have almost eliminated the odor. :-)

By dadgum

August 14, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

Folks you gotta remember we have 9 teams to pass and many of those made serious July additions to improve their wild card status. The 6 games isn’t the issue as much as the number of teams we have to pass. We can’t assume that other teams won’t go on a roll as well. Right now the best chance as I see it lies with Houston. The Cards and Cubs are not good teams and they will be feasting on that division through Sept. Houston also has the best pitching to survive a wild card onslaught. If Houston doesn’t win the division outright they should win the wild card.

It is to be noted here that I am not giving up. Notice I use “we” in refering to the team I have been rooting for since day 1. In fact I was at the very first game at Fulton County stadium in 1966…..yeah, that day 1. Longer if you count the Crackers. I’ll always be a Brave fan just calling it the way I see it. Hope I am wrong.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 14, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

thank you, carolina lady! whew! journalist was almost as testy as dob this morning when the impact of losing the banner of st. george set in. journalist leaves the restoration up to you. remember that we are partners now in whatever the banner brings on e-bay. should get a good price if we can restore the colorful red cross.

By Lew

August 14, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

Banners and Beests and Dragons-Oh My. I swear the twists and turns on this blog’s roads are always amazing. What has happened to Journalist Bob? Have the blue worms got his tongue or perhaps kidnapped his cat? DADGUM- You’re read on Thorman may well be correct. However, I disagree about Langerhans. His value as a sub outfielder and especially as a late inning defensive specialist is too high to let him go. He can play any of the outfield positions and his defense is as good as anyones (except maybe Andruw).

By John

August 14, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Am I the only one who thinks Bobby is crazy for not playing our LF (Diaz, Thorman) as lead-off and leaving Giles in the 2 hole?

By geauxbraves2000

August 14, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Valid point KC.

By TommyB

August 14, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

John,

I think Bobby was simply sending a message to “Gilly.” That would be, “I am the MANAGER. Do NOT spout off in print about where you are playing, NO MATTER how you frame it.”

By journalist jimmy smith

August 14, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

dadgum, dadgum, journalist jimmy smith was there, too. of course, jimmy smith was almost a baby back then (wink,wink). journalist was at the exhibition games played by the milwaukee braves (remember that judge wouldn’t let them move for a time) and remembers the next great catcher- a young joe torre. that was a pretty good team that made the move to atlanta - went down fast, though. took a long time to get back to respectability. can’t take anything for granted in baseball. that’s why journalist has sometimes been critical of bobbycox in the playoffs - there is no guarantee you will ever be back. why start jordan, estrada, and julio in game 1 and bench your hottest players (last year)? gotta win while you’re there - may be hard to get back again.

By 10-7-4

August 14, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

It,s a small world after all, it’s a small world after all, it’s a aaaaaaaaggggggghhhhh

By journalist jimmy smith

August 14, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

lew, journalist bob may have gotten in to some bad sousemeat. then again, may just be sleeping.

diaz has the hot bat. he delivers timely hits - not just late inning garbage when the game is lost. will he remain in the lineup?

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

I’m just sitting here, kinda LMAO, after reading dadgum’s trade scenarios (and not because they’re foolish, bubba, not talking smack here!). The one about Thorman being expendable because LaRoche is playing so well? Oh, man…is it just seven or eight weeks ago that 99% of the folks on the blog were writing he couldn’t be traded because no one would want him (they still thought it was April, I guess, when he really DID have a horrible month, but NOBODY cared that he was coming out of it as early as the middle of May)? I guess these are the types of things that make the word “ironic” useful. LOL

By Carolina Lady

August 14, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

‘Morning, 35!! ooooooooh, no. Still singing, huh? I’m so sorry! :-)))

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

OK, I’m thru hooting, now let me see if I can get back to biz here. dadgum, I’ve said it before, trade Yunel Escobar and I’ll…go…absolutely…postal. Prado? Don’t care, if he can bring pitching as a throw-in, make the package. But unless Escobar absolutely tanks at AAA (see WB as the cautionary tale about projecting prospects at the AA level), he’s gonna be an absolute monster. He’s getting some innings at second, don’t know how he’s adapting there, but an infield of Escobar and Elvis Andrus in the middle is sho’ titillating (again, assuming both fulfill their “upside”, ha).

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

Howdy, all… Did I miss anything while I was away? Any good pie or the such? I didn’t miss the vintage Smoltzie or the new-old Huddy. Thank God I missed the Barry debacle. I long for the days of having 5 major league starters on the roster…

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

TommyB, once you get past the huge security line, the rest was normal. There was no second security checkpoint (maybe they had that this weekend and already dropped it, or maybe they dropped it before ever instituting it). They relaxed the regs a bit already, so you can at least take some visine and such necessities on board.

I think the line was probably huge just because everybody on a typically busy Monday morning felt like they needed to get there so early, it was just the usual 8 a.m. or so crush moved up two hours. Because the actual baggage-check process at the x-ray machine didn’t take any longer, etc.

Dadgum, only thing I really disagree on your assessment is Giles _ he’s far more than ‘adequate’ offensively, man. Nevermind the first half this season, the guy’s regarded as one of the best hitting second basemen in the game. Ask any scout that one and you’ll get that response. That said, he still could get moved for reason you cited _ Braves have guys lined up in the minors, good guys. And Giles will make $5 mill or so. And there’s not many other places to cut.

I agree, they won’t give up on Hudson this winter. Not with their lack of pitching depth already what it is.

TommyB, Chopthis, here’s a couple of snippets from reviews of Oldboy, which, by the way, won the Grand Prize at a little film festival called Cannes:

Chicago Tribune Michael Wilmington: “It’s a movie of such jaw-dropping violence, wild improbability and dazzling style it overpowers all resistance.”

Chicago Sun-Times Roger Ebert: “Oldboy is a powerful film not because of what it depicts, but because of the depths of the human heart which it strips bare.”

New York Post V.A. Musetto: “Park’s direction is flawless and Jung Jung-hoon’s cinematography is stunning.”

Portland Oregonian M. E. Russell: “Startling and amazing — a cinematic hammer to the skull.”

Chopthis, I defy you to find such praise for Jackie Brown.

By Don

August 14, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

TommyB, despite Dave’s best effort to distort my comments, I never suggested my “playing days” were worth talking about or that I played baseball at a high level. I said “some of us who played as kids”, i.e. Little League and Babe Ruth League. The reference was meant to illustrate that I’ve loved and followed the game for a long time, nothing more.

Seriously, is there nobody other than me who wonders why Bobby Cox would knowingly play an injured player, not a star but a marginal player, for 2 weeks during a wild card race? And not just play him but bat him leadoff and then later suggest his numbers were poor because he couldn’t really swing the bat? The Braves are still playing for the wild card but Bobby wanted to look at Aybar as if it was spring training or callup time in September after we are out of the playoffs. As if watching somebody play with an injured hand tells you something about how good they are. As if it’s fair to guys like Smoltz who are busting their behinds.

Nobody thinks that’s a strange (and probably implausible) story except me?

By Lew

August 14, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

VOR-I know everyone realises that our 15 year run at respectabiltity was from having good pitching. What I would hope that they realise as well-We had a core of three HOF pitchers for over ten years. This is something I don’t believe has ever happened before and may not happen again. I’d be happy just putting five major leaguers in the rotation as you suggest. Sir James-Does Bob, Journalist have Sleeping Sickness. Did the Hartebeest unwittingly import Tsete (I have no idea of the spelling-we need Bob)Flies from his home land?

By Carolina Lady

August 14, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Have a safe flight, DOB.

By Carolina Lady

August 14, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Don, who knows why Bobby does what he does?! I can only guarantee you that he knows a whole lot more about it than you or I ever will. Flailing at events in the past can be exhausting. To eveyone. :-)

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Yes, Lew, having 3 HOF’ers is something that may never happen again in the “new economic climate” of MLB, but, as you say, can’t we at least have 5 Major League starters? Do you realize that in 2003, the Braves trotted out Greg Maddux, Russ Ortiz, Mike Hampton, Horacio Ramirez and Shane Reynolds, Shane flippin’ Reynolds, and won 101 games?

By TommyB

August 14, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Don,

It would certainly seem plausible if it checks out medically. IOW, what I remember reading is that the doc says “can’t be made worse by playing… keep playing as long as you can stand the contact.” Floating chip, or something like that. Me, I had six broken hands/arms/wrists as a kid. I can’t for the life of me imagine playing ANYTHING with a break but then again, I never had what they are describing as Aybar’s malady. Mine went from greenstick fractures to compound. Traditional stuff. Things you had to have a cast on for 3 weeks or more for. Plus — if the deal was done and Chipper was on the DL (meaning no more WB), who else was Bobby to sub with?

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, thanks. I’m already here, though. Took an eaaarly flight because I didn’t want to risk not getting here. I hate rushing around anyway, trying to get checked into hotel, showered and to the ballpark. So I usually take the early one.

Oh, and you are a wise woman with your concise, oh-so-true posts. Speaking of your last one at 11:39.

By the way, I didn’t do the game yesterday, so I just read this morning that Cox’s peers voted him best manager again in the Baseball America survey. To think, I didn’t even have to spin that one.

Those other managers … all idiots, don’t ya think? They just don’t get it.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 14, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

the mighty brewers showed what can happen to bad pitching - they scored 8 runs Saturday night against the braves’ hapless pitching. remember when 5 runs would win a game?

By Tony Almeida

August 14, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

I agree DOB, they are all idiots.

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

Dave, Dave, Dave…being a little caustic today, my man? Bring no harshness to your Monday mellow, regardless of irks and ires brought on by others!

By Carolina Lady

August 14, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Sir cousin jimmy smith journalist gentleman, I’ve repeatedly run the banner through the washer all morning - with one short rest while the motor cooled. The material is definitely cleaner now and the combination of detergent, Listerine and Febreeze has completely removed the lingering odor from the skunk. That’s the good news.

Does Sir gentleman cousin jimmy smith journalist perhaps know a good weaver??

I’m sure all the treads are here …. there are so many it’s hard to be sure but I didn’t see any more in the filter, and I’ve untangled the wad …. I mean, they are all laid out nice and neat……. Please advise.

This lady will be at various medical facilities the remainder of the day, but will check in upon return.

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

Lady - Beware of medical facilities! Doctors are just guessers; they happen to be more educated guessers, but guessers none the less. “Let’s treat this with this, and come back if it doesn’t work.” BTW, you do know what you call the doctor who graduated last in his class, don’t you? You call him “Doctor.”

By Carolina Lady

August 14, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

Thanks, DOB! We’re cut from the same piece of cloth (sorry, jimmy!) with the early arrival habit! I was usually there, unpacked, showered and had scouted out the area while the others were still waiting for their flights. Sure makes life less stressful, doesn’t it?!

Have a great stay up there! Ever just driven around DC at night and looked at the lights? My first such excursion was right after a rain and the lights reflected on the wet surfaces was just beautiful. Had something of an eerie, but peaceful quality. I’ll never forget it! (Course I don’t know how safe it is to do that in DC these days! The safest way to see the sights at night may be to sign up for a ‘Ride-Along’ with WPD!):-))

By Don

August 14, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

TommyB, it seems to me that if Aybar can’t swing the bat effectively you play Pete Orr at third base and bat him leadoff. That’s what Bobby did Saturday night before Chipper came off the DL on Sunday. Or Tony Pena, Jr. if he can play third, or call somebody up from the minors. I don’t think Aybar falls into the Chipper or Andruw category, where 60-70% of him is probably better than 100% of whatever you can replace him with.

If Pete Orr sits behind a Willy Aybar who can barely swing the bat, I wonder why Pete Orr has a spot on the major league roster. Of course, his great game Saturday night notwithstanding, others have questioned why Orr is on the roster.

It’s not just an issue of whether Aybar can seriously injure himself by playing, it’s a question of whether he can help the team slapping at the ball if that’s not his normal hitting style. (We were told he has some power, that he drives the ball.) A .205 batting average after his first game with nothing but singles says the answer to whether he could help us turned out to be no.

If Bobby knew he was hurt from the time he says the injury took place, maybe he plays him for a game or two or three, but for two weeks of little production?

My GUESS is that the injury was viewed as minor. Aybar might not even have mentioned it until it got worse in the last few days and he had to go on the DL. But Bobby always sticks up for his players, so he gives Aybar a mulligan on all but the good first game by suggesting he was too hurt to swing the bat (I love Bobby, but how many times have we heard him talk about the pitcher who got shelled only making a couple of bad pitches or the guy who’s 0 for 20 hitting a lot of balls right at people?). Healthy Aybar went 4 for 6, injured Aybar hit .205 for 2 weeks.

That’s my guess, but when a reporter won’t ask a tough question and just reports what Braves management tells him, all you can do is guess. And since it’s not acceptable here to question implausible stories when they’re posted by the authority figure, I’ll leave you guys to discuss music.

By Carolina Lady

August 14, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

‘Mornin’, VOR! Don’t I know it??! If it was for myself, I’d just get another bottle of Listerine, but this is for my mother. One of the things revealed in the CAT scan was an abdominal aneurysm of the aorta that will be further investigated today. Tomorrow we see a gastroenterologist for another problem; next week it’s the urologist and podiatrist - and I forgot the others……

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

Lady - Your mother and you will be in my prayers. Been there, done that, wish I still could…

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Betemit blah blah blah blah blah blah conspiracy blah blah blah blah blah blah Betemit

Seriously, someone send some meds to this man.

Donald, what would you have asked Bobby? See, what we reporters asked him was, a. When did he get hurt? b. How did he get hurt? c. Then I repeated, So he got hurt on the last play of the first game, and kept playing?

When Bobby explained that he could still “lay the bat on the ball pretty good” and that they wanted to get a look at him, and that the doctors assured them it was a non-displaced chip factor and would not be at risk for further injury by playing with it, Aybar wanted to play and Braves knew they wouldn’t get a chance to see him play once Chipper returned from DL. Other than the ball between his legs, he played sound defense with the injury.

Just so you know: Pete Orr will never, ever play third base for two weeks for this team. He is not the kind of player they would run out there for more than a few days in a row, and only then in an emergency. He’s strictly a backup who doesn’t even get a day-game start unless someone’s hurt.

Pena is completely overmatched offensively at this stage. He needs to get stronger and get more seasoning and more at-bats in the majors before he can play more than one or two games. He’s only up because he was only the 40-man and he can play shortstop. That’s it.

Any further questions, Bob Woodward? Oh, and by the way, you’d last 10 minutes on the beat covering Bobby Cox. Because as much as you think you’re tough, you’re not. And when Bobby looked at you after you asked the same question for the third time with your I’ll-get-to-the-bottom-of-this tone that’s easy to portray here on the blog, Bobby would throw in right back in your face, ask you what you would do in a tone that says, who the f are you? and then he’d probably say, “I’ve got to go watch batting practice” and walk out with a tone of disgust.

And you, Mr. Tough Reporter, would be right where you were to begin with, without the answer you went in looking for, only you also would now have a terrible relationship with the manager, a crucial relationship to covering a beat in which you meet with that man two or more times a day for nine months out of the year in an intimate setting, with no more than three others in the room most of the time. And the next time he might be inclined to help you out and give you some background info on a guy or something off the record, you wouldn’t get it, but the other guys you compete with just might.

So go ahead. Retort to that like I know you will. Because again, it’s really easy to tell someone how to do their job WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE A STINKING CLUE HOW IT’S DONE.

Your arrogance defies description. You are the height of pompous self-righteousness. Your indignation over everything makes me puke. Do the job, just once in your life, or stop acting like you know what you’re talking about.

Did anybody ever tell you how to listen? To listen and not act like you know everything? Have you ever been a reporter, for any publication, at any level whatsoever? And if so, where? If not, then tell me what you do so I can tell you how to do it better.

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

Oh, and please, please follow through with your promise of leaving us to discuss music, along with the Braves and other fun and interesting topics. Because you’re bringing the entire thing down with your paranoid, negative, one-dimensional rants.

You are killing this thing, man. Killing it for me.

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

Hi, DOB - Picked up a little Earle over the weekend… still listening. At the moment, I’m listening to a little live Bonnie Raitt with John Lee Hooker. Now that’s music purity. It’ll cure what ails ya, it’ll even smooth out the raw nerves that can become irritated from time to time.

I speculate that there isn’t one player or coach on the Braves that would concede this season’s playoff race, but I imagine that BC and JS are absolutely looking at some players (Aybar, etc.) with an eye toward next year. Of course, nobody will say that, but…

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

DOB…wow.

By Adam

August 14, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

DOB - What do you think about adding a starter like Vincente Padilla or Gil Meche next year. Both have very good stuff and could benefit from a pitcher friendly park like Turner Field. I just don’t want to see the likes of John Thomson or the mess of minor leaguers we brought up this year to start games. Both of the guys mentioned are fairly young and should be affordable.

It’s painful to watch a game where you KNOW the starter we are putting up there is going to get knocked around. The Braves can’t be in that situation again next year. I know there has been a lot of injuries, but what we put out there outside of Smoltz and Hudson over the past 2 starts has not been good. I also hope the Braves pay A LOT more attention to the bullpen in the offseason and don’t expect things to work themselves out like this year.

By DonCoburleone

August 14, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

DOB, chill out man, why do you let these doosh bags get under your skin? Don is clearly just a cranky old man with nothing better to do than complain. I bet when he’s not writing on this blog he’s harrassing customer service people on the phone.

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Adam, I think they’ll strongly consider doing exactly that, adding a veteran guy who’s affordable and dependable (more dependable than Padilla, I’d hope). Someone who might not be capable of winning 15-18, but that can be penciled in for 30 starts and 12 or more wins with a lot of innings.

Because you’re right, they shouldn’t allow themselves to be caught short-handed again with the likes of Thomson and overmatched journeyman and/or 28-year-old minor leaguers.

But they can’t make those decisions, or won’t make them, until they see how Davies finishes out the year, see how Horacio finishes it out, etc. There’s still quite a bit of time left, even though time’s running out on their playoff chances obviously, if it’s not already out. Still a lot of games to do evaluating, etc.

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

I don’t know that I want the Braves to pay a LOT of attention to the bullpen, I’d rather that focus (and money) be spent on quality starters. I doubt there are five clubs in MLB with “good” bullpens (depending on your def of “good”, I guess). Most bullpen guys are there because they can’t start and can’t close, IMO. You think some kid comes up with a stated career goal of being a “seventh-inning specialist who can get the ground-ball DP”? Doubt it. Most bullpen guys have multiple uni’s on their resume, and I don’t believe that’s by accident. Pouring money into the bullpen sure helped the Cubs, hey?

By TommyB

August 14, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this

MLBTradeRumors has a new (the 4th) installment on the Free Agent Pitcher Market for 2007. This one features Pettite, Ponson, Radke, Redman, Schmidt, and Smoltz. Redman could well find his way to ATL over the winter. The scenario seems to fit.

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

DonC, others: Sorry for allowing gasbag to interrupt the flow here. Just the unmitigated gall, again and again, just gets under my skin. But I don’t want to censor anyone’s comments, etc., and won’t. I just need to skip his, I realize that. Very unhealthy _ for me, for the blog, for all concerned. Truly a conversation cancer.

Again, sorry to blow a gasket. Wish I could say it to him one-on-one without exposing this space to it. It won’t happen again.

VOR, which Earle did you get? I wish I had those CDs with me right now, some angry Earle to bring some perspective to my mood right now.

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Tim Roth to Amanda Plummer: “Chill, Honey-Bunny!!!!” …and how DO you say that in Korean??

By DonCoburleone

August 14, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Adam if (a BIG IF) everyone can stay healthy next year on the rotation and the Braves re-sign Wickman I like our chances of making the playoffs next year. Smoltz, Hudson (if he doesn’t get traded, please, JS, find a way to trade him!), Hampton, James, Ramirez, and Davies is a solid 6-man rotation. Of course, Hudson looks like a different pitcher this year, James is still to young to be consistent, Ramirez and Davies can’t stay healthy, Smoltz is going to be a year older, and Hampton is a complete unknown. If everything comes together for the rotation, the Braves should challenge the Muts next year.

By chopthis

August 14, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

TELL THAT HACK TO CHILL!!

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

DOB - per your suggestion, I acquired “Ain’t Ever Satisfied.” It has a couple of tunes that I’m familiar with, but for the most part, it’s all new to me. My wife freaked out when she heard me playing it; she absolutely couldn’t believe I was listening to that. As I’ve said earlier, we’re pretty much hard rockers, I’m just now beginning to explore other genres.

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

DonC, don’t think there’s a snowball’s chance all six of those guys are here next year. At least one will have to go, don’t you think, if the Braves plan to add a quality starter to the rotation (by that I mean someone who is at least a mid-rotation guy with consistency and durability)? You very clearly stated all the question marks (clary-ed, if you will!), and since EVERYBODY is looking for young pitching, Ramirez/James/Davies might be the most attractive trade pieces the Braves have.

By chopthis

August 14, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

Point the keyboard at me, Dave! Come on, Dave, point the keyboard at me!!

That’s right, Dave. I’m rpoud of you. And Carolina Lady here is proud of you.

Tell him you’re proud of him. Lady.

We’re gonna be like three little Fonzies here. And what’s Fonzie like?

Come on, Dave! What’s Fonzie like!

Correctimundo! Fonzie is cool. And that’s what we’re gonna be. We’re gonna be cool.

Now behave. Or I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy this blog.

By Lew

August 14, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

DOB-Don’t apologize. Sometimes extreme measures need to be taken.As long as it’s directed how and where it should be, then you just did what needed doing. Has there been any word on just who the Braves might be calling up in a few weeks? Also, whatever happened to Napoleon Calzado and Billy McCarthy? They looked like they might have a future at one time.

By flbravesgirl

August 14, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’ve learned to ignore the obnoxious people on here. Much better for the blood pressure. On a happier note, the Carays were praising your Wickman article on TBS, did everybody catch the mention?

Carolina Lady, the doctor’s-appt.-of-the-day sounds familiar. We (mostly my mom) have been going through that with my grandmother the past few years since she moved near us. (She was a Carolina Lady herself, upstate SC.)

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Dave, I’m not sure apology is called for, I was just a little worried about your BP, brother. Besides, when Gibson went lip-high, he didn’t get mad, he just got RIGHTEOUS! LOL

By 22oz

August 14, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

DOB- Not that i’m complaining, but i’ve been noticing that no one has said a word about Brian Jordan. Has he unofficially retired like i thought eddie perez was last year? You just don’t hear anything about his shoulder’s progress, rehab, whatnot. As an expert in broken bones (same arm, same spot, 3 times) i feel like he should be at least close to some sort of test. I was just wondering because a healthy brian jordan would be fantastic trade bait. everyone is looking for veteran leadership. i mean, look what he’s done for us since we brought him back.

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

I caught the Caray’s comments on cable. (Actually, it was satellite, but I really got caught up in the alliteration.) Yep, our own DOB praised on the Super, er, not quite as Super as they used to be Station.

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

I will admit, though, chop’s 1:46 made me laugh right out loud, couldn’t help it.

By DonCoburleone

August 14, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

DOB, time for a new blog yet?

By Adam

August 14, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

DonC - THe whole point is not to have a big IF in our pitching staff. We depended on Ramirez, Thomson, and Davies to be healthy this year and it didn’t work out. The Braves use to be built on pitching and defense, we have the defense, we don’t have the pitching. Maybe you have a lot of faith in Davies and James next year and for Hampton to be healthy, but I think having another solid arm to compete for a rotation spot with big league experience is a much smarter way to go then to HOPE that Davies and James can get the job done and Hampton is healthy.

By 10-7-4

August 14, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Afternoon all—-ncscoots ‘anya hashamika Yobosao

By KC

August 14, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone:

I agree that the Braves have a good shot next year, but something tells me I have a little better feeling about next season than you might. You said “If everything comes together for the rotation, the Braves should challenge the Muts next year.”

I would say, unless things go terribly wrong… Atlanta will definitely compete for the division title. And depending on how much the Mets are able to upgrade their starting pitching this winter; the Braves may once again be the favorites in the NL East.

Sure Smoltz will be a year older, but look at the way he’s throwing the ball. He’s never looked better. It’s very hard to imagine him washing up over the course of one winter. Given his age, you can’t base your 2008 or 2009 plans on the assumption that he’ll still be a force, but I think you can and do plan on him still being an ACE for at least on more season.

I disagree that Hampton is a complete unknown. I think given that he will have had the full recommended 18 month recovery time (usually pitchers come back after only 12 months) from Tommy John surgery, and the fact that his rehab is already going quite well (he’s already at a point where he could start a minor league rehab assignment)… there’s every reason to believe that he will be a big part of Atlanta’s 2007 rotation.

If Hudson continues to pitcher well, then I think you have to chalk what happened over that deplorable 7 week stretch of his… as a fluke. He pitched quite well for us last season, finishing with a 3.52 ERA (very comparable to the ERA’s of John Smoltz, Pedro Martinez, and Carlos Zambrano this year, none of whom are considered to be having disappointing years). And his 14 wins should have been at least 18 if the bullpen had done its job to any reasonable degree. And we don’t even have to talk about everything he proved in Oakland. If Hudson’s struggles are behind him… then we’re talking about 7 terrible weeks VS. 7 great years. He’s only 30, and his stuffs as great as ever. I hope we don’t trade him, and I think it’s very unlikely that he would.

HoRam was outstanding in 11 of his 14 starts between DL stints this year, and showed tremendous improvement from that season-long batting practice/home run derby display he pitched last season. Chuck James and Kyle Davies give us two young an very promising arms. Nice to have 6 starters (2 of them with minor league options left), because as you point out, HoRam has been somewhat injury prone. My guess would be that Davies will be our 5th starter next year with Chuck James moving back to the bullpen. He pitched very effectively out of the pen earlier this season, and that would give us another quality lefty down there, and one that can actually get right-handed hitters out.

Even if either HoRam or Hampton go on the DL at some point next year (and to be honest with you, I’m more worried about HoRam staying healthy than I am Mike Hampton), we’ve got another starter (either James or Davies) waiting in the wings. So again I say… Unless things go very wrong, the Braves starting rotation is in great shape next season.

By DonCoburleone

August 14, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

I would say trade Horacio Ramirez if you could get a reliable/durable early or mid 30’s starting pitcher for him. But I doubt that would happen, HoRam is officialy INJURY PRONED!

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

DonC, it’s Monday, so they post them all together at 4 p.m. It’s filed already, I imagine will be up at 4.

Voice, that’s outstanding,you jamming to Steve. Do you like it?

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

DOB - It’s growing on me. I certainly can’t say I don’t like it. I absolutely like the title cut. Hey, baby steps… what can I say?

By DonCoburleone

August 14, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

KC, VERY optimistic. But, I guess we have to be after this terrible season. The one argument I would kind of agree with is that of Tim Hudson - 7 weeks vs. 7 years is a good point, but, maybe he has just flat-out hit a wall. His stamina is gone (see new amphetamine testing this year) and he doesn’t seem to have that strikeout pitch that 99% of all Aces have. With as few strikeouts as he now gets, he’s turned into strictly a streaky sinker-ball pitcher (see Derek Lowe). He’s never going back to his Oakland days, IMO. Then there is Davies, this guy just can’t stay healthy, period. And there is NO WAY you can say with any certainty what the Braves are going to get out of Hampton. Even if he wasn’t coming off of Tommy John surgery he’d still be 2 years older and just as likely to injure some other part of his body. Keep in mind, we haven’t really had a good start from him since early May ‘05.

By KC

August 14, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

Since music is a popular subject here… is any one else here a Marc Cohn fan? For those that don’t know, he’s the guy that did Walking In Memphis.

While that was his only big radio hit, it was far from his only great song. He has 3 albums, and all of them are outstanding from start to finish!

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Real life calls; gotta jet - Have an outstanding afternoon to all. Later…

By DonCoburleone

August 14, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

All I know is, if Bob Wickman is pitching for a team other than the Atlanta Braves next year I am officially going to revolt and become a YANKEES fan! (Not seriously going to do that, but I will be PISSED if they don’t re-sign him!) —unless of course he retires.

By DonCoburleone

August 14, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

DOB, what would you put the chances of the Braves trading Andruw Jones before the start of the ‘07 season? And, what would you say the chances are of them trading Andruw Jones at the ‘07 deadline if they are in the race?

By chopthis

August 14, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

Don’t rely too much on the critics, Dave. After all, a lot of critics hated “O Brother, Where Art Thou?,” but that’s one of my all-time favorite movies. It’s a movie not everyone’s going to get with, though. Another movie I treasure, “The Best of Times” with Robin Williams and Kurt Russell, was absolutely panned.

And when the critics hated “Clerks II,” boy, did they ever hate it.

I’m convinced if “Jackie Brown” had been made before “Pulp Fiction,” it would have gotten adoring reviews. Any movie having to follow on the heels of “PF” is going to suffer for it.

By el bravo x

August 14, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

I am considering introducing a new blog law: No more than 3 cups of coffee before 1:00pm. I am introducing a new personal man law as I take a 2 week vacation. One beer an inning for the next week. 63 beers in my belly. Hope for extra innings! Betty ford here I come. Baseball: The Braves have no consistent approach on hitting. One swings at the first pitch, another swings at pitches on the dirt, others have no idea what they are doing, they react. Only a 2 and a half pitching rotation. Enjoy the next 46 games left and hope for improvement.

By Beaumont Livingston

August 14, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

Let me outta this dirty-a*s trunk, Dave, and I’ll illustrate to you with this shotgun which movie was better!

By KC

August 14, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone

I truly don’t think I’m being overly optimistic. I believe everything I’ve said to be very realistic, and I don’t think it’s far off from what the Braves front office is expecting for 2007. No offense, but to look at a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Ramirez, Davies/James, (in addition to a great offense/defense, and a solid closer who’s expressed a desire to return) and say “IF everything goes just right, we might have a chance”… is a little on the pessimistic side.

Was this 7 week a fluke or sign of his decline? I guess only time will tell. But given that he’s only 30 years old, and his stuff is every bit as good as it’s ever been… I would have a hard time making a case for the semi-washed up theory.

As for Hudson lacking a strikeout pitch… Hudson’s never been a big strike out guy, but when he’s on, he’s strike out a batter here and there. He’s averaged 6.4 strikeouts per 9 innings over his career. It’s worth noting that in his last two starts, he struck out 11 batters over 13-2/3 innings. That’s well above his career AVG for SO-per-9-inn ratio.

“And there is NO WAY you can say with any certainty what the Braves are going to get out of Hampton.”

There is no way I can say with “certainty” what the Braves or any other team in baseball are going to get out of any of its players. But based on the present course and progress of his rehab, and his unusually ample recovery time… I think chances are better that he’ll make a significant contribution than are the chances that he won’t.

“Even if he wasn’t coming off of Tommy John surgery he’d still be 2 years older and just as likely to injure some other part of his body.”

Last year was the first time in 9 years that Hampton failed to make at least 29 starts, having spent fairly little time on the DL over the course of his career prior to the problems that led to the Tommy John surgery.

Anyway, good thoughts DonC… enjoyable debate. :o)

By chopthis

August 14, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

Dave,

All you have to do for this scene is huddle in a corner softly muttering “Oldboy” over and over.

Action!

Vincent: Is he a friend of yours or somethin’?

Jules: Huh? Oh, Vincent… Dave; Dave… Vincent.

Vincent: You better tell him to shut the f-ck up. He’s gettin’ on my nerves.

Jules: Dave?… Dave… Dave!! (Dave shuts up and emerges from his trance.) I’d knock that sh-t off if I was you.

That’s a wrap! Lunch!

By KC

August 14, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

And BTW: Hampton’s only 33. That’s not old in baseball.

By ernesto

August 14, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

I think our rotation is in some serious trouble. Smoltzie one year older is still Smoltz but 40 year olds tend to wear down. Hampton’s been up and down, Hudson’s a mystery, and HoRam and Davies when they’re not hurt, are hit and miss (pardon the pun.) Certainly, it could be a great rotation, or it could be a really mediocre, injury prone one. I think we definitely need some SP help for ‘07. That’s got to be a priority.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 14, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

the life of a journalist is all that dob described - and more. imagine looking into the eyes of bobbycox after yet another loss and asking him about somebody’s toes! bobbycox would not receive this well. besides bobbycox has not seen his own toes in 15 years - why would he know about others’ toes? why do you think bobbydews is always clipping the toe nails of bobbycox? (there is some inside iformation for those who like inside information). journalism is not always pretty.

By ncscoots

August 14, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

I bet QT would LOVE this blog!

By DonCoburleone

August 14, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

And please, guys, everyone, no more talk of the playoffs this year please. “It’s over Johnny.”

By TheSouthernJackAss

August 14, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe that the great DOB is cracking under the pressure of a johnnycomelately amateur like DON after all the shyt that’s been hurled in his direction over the last few months!!!…GO TIGERS!!!…

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Very good Pulp Fiction stuff. Man, you forget how great that flick was. Gotta go back and watch my DVD of it when I get home, like I did with The Big Lebowski last week. Gotta replenish. The Dude Abides.

Chopthis, I actually saw a few solid reviews for Clerks II. It was all-or-nothing, as is often the case with that type of flick that some find objectionable or just don’t get.

Kill Bill I OK, KB II strong. But tell me, are they the type of flicks you’d watch repeatedly? Not me. Pulp Fiction, I can watch every night for a week.

By DonCoburleone

August 14, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

What’s with the random “GO TIGERS” blog? There are actually Tigers fans out there?

By David O'Brien

August 14, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

DonC, a good and intriguing question about Andruw.

I’ll answer the second part first: NO CHANCE they trade him at the deadline if they’re in a pennant race and Andruw is doing his regular thing. No way they put that kind of hole in their offense that late in a pennant race.

Which leads to the first part of the question. It only makes sense to explore trades this winter, see what you could possibly get, while at the same time seeing if you can lock Andruw up to an extension this winter and be done with it. Just my somewhat educated guess _ I think they’ll definitely see what kind of bounty they could get back this winter, because you need to get those guys in and build a team if you decide or have a good idea you wouldn’t be able to sign him. But I know they want to re-sign him, just depends where his and the general market go. Boras factor always lurking potentially.

By TommyB

August 14, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

KC:

I really liked “Walking in Memphis.” So much so that I think I have three different versions (one studio and two live) on the old iPod. I just never found another one of his tracks to get me airborne. That’s so often the case with an artist when they deliver something SO GOOD. You expect them to always —at least— match it. Cohn Trivia: Did you know he’s married to ABC News Babe Elizabeth Vargas? Also, that he recently got shot (somewhere in the midwest, I think) after some gig. Some mugging or something and he was nearby. I just barely remember the news story. This was within the past year, for certain.

By Head coach

August 14, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

Hello bloggers. I just wanted to finally respond to and remind my friend David O’brian of a verbal jab sent my way a few weeks ago. When Orel Hershiser predicted the Braves to win the wildcard I almost died laughing , although I was laughing at Hershiser not the Braves. So I can finally say this with much satifaction and 46 games still left to play : Orel Hershiser , your prediction was wrong and its still wrong and you should stick to analyzing pitchers because thats about all you can get right when it comes to predicting the fate of a baseball team.

By KC

August 14, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

ernesto:

“our rotation is in some serious trouble”

Respectfully Ernesto, I haven’t disagreed more heartily with anything all week. I won’t repeat everything I said in my 2:32 post, but I do want to respond to a few things…

Smoltz is showing no signs of decline. Obviously he’s getting up there in years and can’t keep this up forever, but there’s no reason whatsoever to worry that he’s going to wash up over the course of one winter.

Hampton “up and down”?? He got hurt man. I’m sure you know that he had Tommy John Surgery toward the end of last season. He is already said to be at a point where he could begin a minor league rehab assignment, but the Braves will hold him off until the spring to let him have the full 18 month recovery time, which is how long doctors say it takes to fully recover from that surgery. Most of the struggles that pitchers experience when returning from TJ surgery comes between that 12-18 month (post-surgery) period. Hampton’s arm should be 100% by opening day. But he’s actually been the kind of guy that you can count on for 30 plus starts, pretty much his whole career. And as to his performance… especially From the half way point of the 2004 season until he went on the DL last season, he was once again one of the best pitchers in baseball. No reason to be anything other than optimistic about Hampton in 2007.

Hudson’s struggles were a mystery, but they appear to be behind him. Assuming that’s the case… we’re talking about 7 lousy weeks VS. 7 great years. I wouldn’t worry about Huddy too much at this point.

Ramirez showed tremendous improvement this year and was outstanding in 11 of his 14 starts between DL stints this year. His ERA is heavily skewed by that other 3 starts, which didn’t go well at all. He’s got to show more consistency, but again 11 out 14 starts were terrific, and that’s not bad at all. He does seem a little injury prone, but if he or anyone else goes down, we’re still covered. We’ve got 6 starters for 5 slots, so I don’t think we need any starting help or make that a “priority” this winter. Even if someone goes down, we’ll have either James or Davies ready to step in.

Our rotation looks very, very good next year. If the injury bug doesn’t bite too hard or too often, it could be the best in baseball once again.

By KC

August 14, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

Tommy B:

Yeah, I knew he was married to some news chick, just couldn’t remember which one. As to the attempted mugging/shooting… I felt really bad about that. I didn’t even mean for the gun to go off. LOL… We can laugh about it since no one was seriously hurt.

I would encourage you to try on a few more of Marc Cohn’s other cuts. I personally love nearly everything he’s every done. It’s darn frustrating trying to catch him in concert though here in ATL. He plays most of his gigs up in the New England states. Aaaargh!

By Head coach

August 14, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

KC , right on man. the pitching for 2007 will be deep, deep , deep. Smoltz , Hudson , Hampton , Ramirez , Davies and James with Anthony Lerew and Matt Harrison in the rotation picture in spring training next year. They just need to sign Wickman and either find a real leadoff hitter or give Gregor Blanco a long look in spring training. If you dont know who Gregor Blanco is , trust me you will. If Wickman and Baez anchor the bullpen , the rest will work itself out.

By TommyB

August 14, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

KC: OK. I’ll check ‘em out again. What do you recommend? Just checked iTunes and I have: Ghost Train, Saving the Best for Last, Silver Thunderbird, True Companion, Strangers in a Car… (and WIMx3).

Head Coach: Mr. Blanco does look enticing, doesn’t he? (Batting .295 and OBP of .400…. Baseball America-Named “Best Defensive Outfielder”)

By Head Coach

August 14, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this

Just a quick head up for you guys who are having problems with these massive blogs loading at a snails pace. Try netscape or firefox , they load a whole lot faster than internet explorer.