Braves

By nathan

August 7, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Seems to me DOB, judging by the home/road stat splits you listed, that this is a team built around “mediocre” power or “junk” power. Kinda like the old Blake Street Bombers in Colorado years back. Those guys could mash (and hit for average) at Coors Field, but had a hard time duplicating it on the Road.

It appears as thought the Braves maybe have nothing more than a lot of Warning Track Power at home, that just happens to be Home Run Power on the road.

So it could be said that the Braves play in a “pitchers park”, except that other than Smoltz, they don’t have any pitchers to go with it!

JS……..GET MORE PITCHING! ASAP!

By Moe

August 7, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

I don’t dispute the Braves right to trade Wilson Betemit and I won’t claim the trade was a bad one, however…

Counterexample to Wilson Betemit being too big and too slow to be a viable second baseman: Jeff Kent.

By Voice of Reason

August 7, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

I’m no meteorologist and I certainly have no degree in physics… How does the high humidity in Atlanta affect the flight of a baseball?

By nathan

August 7, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

Sorry DOB, I didn’t read all of your post initially. I assumed that the home road splits in the pitching were greater than they were.

You got me! But believe me, if I was actually to get that far south to attend any Braves games this year, I’d have ZERO problem with booing them loudly! LOL!

BTW: What’s your “gut” on this season? If you had to make the call right now, based on how they’ve played the last week or so……IN or OUT?

Nice job with the blog man!

By Andy

August 7, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Dave how many starts does smotlz have at home? How many of the blown saves(esp smotlz) were at home? I don’t know the answers to the questions—but my feeling is the braves have not had as many smotlz’s starts at home/the pen has emploded at home a lot(the road as well)—but this is a young team—fragile confidence kind of thing. The starters come out and give up runs and the regulars just seem to wilt at home—they don’t get to stike first kind of thing. My thoughts.

By Lew

August 7, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

VOR-I think what they meant was that the altitude of Atlanta may affect the flight of the ball in Hotlanta. Like at the Launching pad.

By Voice of Reason

August 7, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

But does the humidity have any effect? I’m not alluding to a reason; I truly don’t know…

By jed

August 7, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

this is a young team. they’re probably just partying while they’re at home. gittin all liquored up after a game. then hungover the next day. i mean, that’s as good an explanation as all those pointless stats, right?

By Carolina Lady

August 7, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

VOR, not sure about a baseball, but in aviation it takes more runway for an airplane to take off when the air is warm and humid (less lift is generated). In cool, drier air, more lift is generated, therefore a shorter take-off run. There must be some correlation to a baseball - but that’s out of my field. Has to deal with the density of the air + temp. :-)

By ncscoots

August 7, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

VOR, I think that the heat and humidity are supposed to make the ball fly FARTHER.

By JM

August 7, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

It’s been truly bizarre why we’ve played so poorly at home this year. My only explanation is that it seems like we’re always behind by two or three runs after the first or second inning. Look at the Mets’ series last week. In the three games we gave up two, two and three runs in the first inning of each game, respectively. I don’t have times to go back and look at the box scores from all of our home games, but I do know it’s been a huge problem. I remember in the Arizona and Boston series’ at Turner Field earlier this year (we were swept in both) they jumped on us in the first couple of innings in just about every game. Even for a good hitting team like us, it’s tough to overcome that psychologically. You start trying to do too much.

But that leads to the obvious question: why do our starters keep getting rocked in the early innings at home? And to that, I don’t have the slightest clue.

By RYAN

August 7, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

LIVAN HERNANDEZ to the D’BACKS?!?!?!?!?

Why didn’t we put a claim on him?!?!?

What the hell?

He’s 10x better than Shiell or whatever else we throw out there every fifth day.

By KneeJerk

August 7, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

Moe…poor example using Jeff Kent. Kent is a POWER hitter. Isn’t he the all-time HR hitter among 2B? Kent gets to jog around the bases more than Wilson.

By ncscoots

August 7, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

god, JM, don’t bring up that Mets series! I’m just getting over the sheer, the sheer..putridity of it. Worst lay-down since Melanie.

By Voice of Reason

August 7, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

While I understand that hotter air is “lighter,” wouldn’t high humidity make the air more dense, thus adversely affecting the flight of a baseball? Again, I’m just trying to apply reason to the question…

By Don

August 7, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

Dave, there’s a typo in the article. The road record should be 29-31 instead of 29-21.

The Braves are winning 44% at home and 48.3% on the road. It looks like a small enough disparity to be a statistical fluke to me. It is also a piece of evidence to suggest that the Braves just aren’t very good this year. Losing record at home, on the road, day games, night games.

By shadaway

August 7, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

If the Braves are 29-21 on the road and 22-28 at home, why is their record 51-59 instead of 51-49?

By TennesseePaul

August 7, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Interesting arcticle DOB. The home woes are awful. Though I don’t think McCann’s performance is that bad. He’s still hitting better than most at home. But everyone else is just depressing.

If this season continues to turn up crap, there will be an opportunity for a writer not very easily found. A long article discussing what it is like for all these home grown talents (Davies, James, McBride, Ray, Francoeur, McCann, etc) watching their favorite team win, year after year while they grew up. And finally getting a chance to be a part of that team and consequently driving it into the ground.

I lay most of the blame on Hudson right now. Even if the pen hadn’t been fixed, it wouldn’t matter. The guy has been awful. He threw a handful of good games at the beginning of the year and hasn’t shown up since. That’s no way to lead a staff. No way at all. Smoltz shouldn’t have to do it year after year. Especially when Hudson was supposed to be the answer.

The other thing I’ve noticed this year… I have not heard of any closed door player-only meetings. Have they just not had any? What happened? It used to be, Bobby would call a rant meeting. Then the players would have one. Then the team catches fire and wins the division. This year, nothing. And look at the results.

We’ve got a lot of work to do if we plan to get to the post season. A ton of work. No more bad play. This month was supposed to be simple. It should have been simple. Pirates, Reds, Phillies (after the deadline), Brewers, Nats, Marlins, Giants. We should have been on top of the world. It isn’t going to happen if the starters don’t show up to pitch. That and the lack of all around fundamental baseball that’s been displayed the entire year. We need a nice, long, winning streak. Real long. About 15 games or so. Let’s do this Braves!

By Not-A-Blogger

August 7, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

The Braves have “warning-track power” at home, where the fly balls that go out on the road are caught deep.

The real problem is: they can’t make the clutch pitch, or get the clutch base hit.

IE: through the first 24 innings in Cincy, they were 2 for 26 with RISP. The whole team seems to be afflicted by “swing-for-the-fences” syndrome.

By MBATL

August 7, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

We were fine at home last year with pretty much the same players… just dumb luck, maybe.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 7, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

lew, you have captured the essence of the hartebeest - and a very handsome hartebeest may journalist add! … and did this beest pose? how did the hartebeest remain still? it is most unusual to find the hartebeest in vermont. thank you very much for sharing with journalist.

now, dob, who did you plan to have make the pie for the braves? are you thinking of letwan’s mama? are you remembering that letwan may have teased you with a sweet potato pie for the next homestand? would you have meringue on such a pie? just curious … it is the journalist in jimmy smith that makes jimmy smith curious.

journalist is now off to home depot. someone please wake up bob.

By rian

August 7, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

DOB - I am not a math major, but if we are 29-21 on the road and 22-28 at home that makes us 51-49. Don’t think we are above .500 just yet although I like your optimism. Think that is supposed to be 29-31. Were below .500 on the road and at home.

By geauxbraves2000

August 7, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

I love the HR ball as much as the next person. The Braves have a lot of power and can hit a lot of homeruns, however everyone on the team is not going to hit 40 or more, or even 30 or more. You translate that into +/- 600 ABs and that’s not a lot of games where the HR is the factor. The Braves lately have been scoring a major majority of their runs via the HR ball. While the HR is great and everything, I think they’ve come to rely on it more than they should. That being said, Turner Field is not a homerun hitters ballpark against even just a decent pitcher. No HR’s, no wins. 4 of the 5 starters for the Braves pretty much have sucked all year, and anyone can hit a homerun anywhere off of a pithcer that sucks. IMHO

Come on Braves, getting late, but still a chance!!

Geaux Braves!!

By Stinger Splash

August 7, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

DOB,

You may want to check your math on the Ws and Ls. The stated home and away records don’t match up to the Braves’ current record. But, hey, it’s early in the day and it is hot outside.

By Rodger

August 7, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

some folks are a little behind the curve on checking the math. Love beating a dead horse to death!

By Lanny

August 7, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Here is your Plasiable answer the Braves are great 340’ fly ball hitters, in most ball parks thats a home run but not in Atlanta. There is your answer

By Rodger

August 7, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

More obvious answer-we don’t face our own pitchers.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

August 7, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

A friend of mine used to call it the Dale Murphy factor which referred to the movie the sluggers wife and the fact that the Braves would always stink up the junk the day after a long road trip ended. Of course the reason being that after the trip certain family obligations had to be taken care of. Now I’m not saying he’s right but this team (especially the pitchers) sure looks distracted at home.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

The whole point is their game revolves around power…hit a HR and you win, don’t hit a HR you lose…its called Bobby ball. They suck on the road and at home so who really cares……

By journalist jimmy smith

August 7, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

jimmy smith has two things to say: “if there were no air resistance the ball would travel nearly twice as far. air resistance depends on humidity, temperature, and altitude - so to make a ball go farther, you want high humidity, high temperature, and high altitude. since the addition of humidity actually makes the air less dense, a ball will go farther on a humid day than it will on a dry day.”

By Test

August 7, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this

[http://www.ajc.com/business/content/shared-gen/ap/FinanceGeneral/StewartSettlement.html]

By Voice of Reason

August 7, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Jimmy, that was the answer I was looking for… I didn’t know that higher humidity created less air resistance. Like I said, I’m no physics major… Now, pie, pudding and pound cake - I have something to offer there!

By midnite

August 7, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

Back in the lean days of the ‘70’s and ‘80’s the Braves always played better ball on the road. The “Curse of Knockahoma’s Teepee” may have kicked back in. Where is that giant Indian that used to stand guard behind the RF fence at the Launching Pad when we need him?

By hk

August 7, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

… read with interest the conversation on the previous blog between Shaun, KC and others as to whether Frenchy is ready for the majors, considering his low obp … KC asked about a formula, got me thinking … nosed around a bit to try to find charts somewhere showing obp vs salary and obp vs fantasy baseball rating (which are probably good measures of value) … from both, looks like not near as much correlation as with RBI, BA, R, HR, etc … too much trouble to try to summarize here … but I do have my little ‘mvp’ chart that I have been keeping for a long time, which uses a total of projected season end RBI, Homers and Runs as a rough measure of a player’s offensive value … while it doesn’t include obp it does include runs scored, which is the main reason for getting on base …

… added an obp column on the mvp chart below to try to eyeball it … there doesn’t seem to be much of a relationship between obp and most valuable, or with runs scored for that matter … Frenchy (2nd in mvp), LaRoche(3rd) both at the bottom in obp … Andruw (1st), is 5th out of 9 in obp …

… small sampling, of course, but tells the same story as that other stuff I was looking at …

… here’s the hitter’s ‘MVP’ through last night, including Betemit’s numbers, (which as expected went up a good bit from last week) …

Year End..Runs..Homers..RBI’s..MVP..obp

Andruw…..97…..38…..140…275..357

Frenchy….88…..31…..113…233..279

LaRoche….85…..34……93…212..338

Chipper….93…..22……87…202..421

Renteria..108…..16……66…190..384

Giles……96…..12……59…166..359

McCann…..57…..21……77…155..399

Betemit….50…..16……50…116..341

Langy……46……9……31….85..339

Team Average……………….178

click here for chart

By Lew

August 7, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

Jimmy-You may be right. this would explain why the ball never carried in the Astrodome. It was supposedly because of the air conditioning. Must be-look at Minute Maid Park and the Rangers stadium. The ball carries real well there. Hot and humid. There are reports of a seal asking directions to Legal Seafood in Boston and looking for a pie loving antelope. Think there might be a connection, Journalist?

By Voice of Reason

August 7, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

I posted this at the end of the last blog, but I think it has become relevent again:

I’m probably gonna regret this, but I’m gonna weigh in on the whole OBP vs. OPS vs. AVG vs. BB’s, etc. I believe that someone earlier stated that they felt that OBP was the most important offensive stat. My question is when did they start counting total bases in the final score? I believe that the team that scores the most runs wins. I’ll submit to you that RBI is the most important offensive stat for a player. Who cares how many times you’re on base if you’re left there after 3 outs? You gotta cross the plate, and that takes RBI. I’m certainly not a Franc apologist, but he’s currently got 77 RBI, which projects to 113 over a full season. I’ll take that from a 22 year old kid with just over a full year of Major League service under his belt. Let’s not forget, either, that his rushed call-up last season has facilitated OJT at the highest level. Sure, his plate discipline leaves alot to be desired. I agree he has some learning and growing to do. I also believe, though, that you’ll still get 100+ RBI from a developing hitter who’s gaining valuable Major League experience every day. And who else are you gonna stick out there to drive in those runs if you sit Franc? Langerhans? Please…

BTW - To the guy who called BC a doofus for sitting McCann every 5 days: Yeah, he’d have more AB’s at this point, but he’d fade miserably down the stretch. Why burn him out earlier for the sake of boosting his AB’s?

More pie and banana pudding for everybody!!!

By BasketballCoach

August 7, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

I believe that much of the home/road phenomenon is due simply to chance. The Braves’ impressive road statistics are due largely to their history-making explosion following the All-Star break. That record-breaking (and wonderful to watch) offensive output was not due to the fact that the Braves were playing on the road. But rather, the Braves emerged from the Break with tremendous confidence, and, in layman’s terms, they simply all got hot at once.

And their less than mediocre home record can be largely attributed to their recent flop against the Marlins and the Mets. In the Marlins, the Braves ran into the hottest team in baseball that fields at least two starting pitchers who will soon become All-Star regulars (Johnson & Olsen), not to mention Mr. Willis. In the Mets, the Braves ran into the best team in the NL.

However, while hitherto the dichotomy between the Braves home/road performance has been due largely to chance, it could become a psychological factor that does indeed affect the players’ performance. Hopefully our Braves will be mentally tough enough to disregard such statistical anomalies.

By Bob, journalist

August 7, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

Jimmy Smith, I’m up … I was rudely awakened by a loud scream from my wife exclaiming that the Braves had a winning record on the road … I thought that I had really overdosed on the Tylenol PM and missed our winning the Wild Card … only to find that it was just David O’B, having some fun and putting us on.

I’ve got some catching up to do, but here’s some quick reactions after reading a few of today’s posts on this previous blog.

Lew, old son, “The only thing that matters in baseball-the whole purpose of the game” sounds a lot like someone getting ready to make a point. You know that I directionally agree but I do think that it can be productive to evaluate a player’s performance in terms of the contribution he could be expected to make with modifications to his approach as compared to the contribution he is currently making. Of course, to be of any value, I think it must be done for the collective and the most important of the decision making criteria is the impact on the team’s overall winning percentage.

For me, there were times when the main purpose of the game was to get me out of doing my chores … while for Mama, my playing baseball was a carrot she held on the end of a stick … to get me to do my chores. I guess that it’s just a matter of perspective.

Hop, I think that it’s good for kids to read the story of Huckleberry Finn … but, it’s even better when those same kids reread it after they’ve come to believe in the Easter Bunny and old Saint Nick!

The trade wasn’t complex but I suspect that there issues of which you’ll never read; especially in the newspaper, domestic or foreign. Regardless of our individual feelings, it’s done and time to move on. Hopefully, the trade will give at least young men renewed or expanded opportunity to acheive their goals and benefit both teams … it looks like a reasonable expection and there aren’t too many trades of which that can be said.

DonC, while my wife is in agreement with your “lets face it, both are getting old” comment, there are those of us who have replaced all of the mirrors in our respective abodes with portraits … we resemble that remark … and prefer to think that they’re just reaching their prime.

Random thoughts … Have you ever noticed that while defensive talent is a rare and valuable gift … most everyone thinks they have it … seems like we’re all too eager to exhibit our own. It’s in the same class as the rareness of commonsense … and the fact that irrational thinkers can always rationalize. Methinks it’s oxymoronish.

By Metsman

August 7, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

Mets Rule Will go to World Series and win it all How ‘bout that Braves fans That is all Oh yeah…Lets go Mets!!!!!

By Voice of Reason

August 7, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

Wow, such insight, Metsman… Thanks for your contribution to the blog.

By Bob, journalist

August 7, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

never try to type before your second cup of coffee … I see several typos but will mention only one of mine … “at least young men” should be “at least three young men”.

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

Remember when there were fewer computers in the world and usually only people with a need for one had one? Sigh… Good to see you’re up, Journalist Bob. I must admit I’m rather shocked to discover that you have multiple portraits of yourself. You know what the good book says about vanity! At least I hope you do, cause I don’t. I just know it’s frowned upon. Personally, I can’t get anyone to do mine; I wonder why? Carolina Lady, please tell me “That’s just way out of my field” was an intentional pun. :-)

By Ron

August 7, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

Maybe it’s time to drop the chop, k.o. the day-o and stave the wave.

By Metsman

August 7, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

Another Prediction Braves will not win division title Get this…not even playoffs!! Lets go Mets!

By Metsman

August 7, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

Another Prediction Braves will not win division title Get this…not even playoffs!! Lets go Mets!

By LT

August 7, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

Really Mets fan, you’ve gotta go with the bold? Now that’s just obnoxious. If I were you, I would soak it up now brother. Save the standings as one of your favorites, so next year you can remember what is was like to be on top.

The baseball gods have not been kind to the Braves this year. Perhaps the home record will statistically even itself out.

By Carolina Lady

August 7, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

Yep!

By Bob, journalist

August 7, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Grinch, you know The Lady better than that! However, it does bring to mind the ancient adage that farming is the best of all endeavors … and though humble farmers won’t all admit to being successful, they are always outstanding in their field.

By Metsman

August 7, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

Metsman here Mets have exceptional talent Will win Division year after year Braves….No Chance for years! Minaya is best GM in Baseball That is all Oh..Lets Go Mets!!**

By Head Coach

August 7, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

Well , losing two out of three at the Great American Ballpark should have been expected. Unfortunately I didnt get to see the one game they won. I was at friday nights game( I could not get three tickets right next to each other for the weekend games)and until the sixth inning Chuck James had a no hitter going and then the wheels came off. At least we (me and my two boys) got to see McCann and Francouer both go deep. McCanns shot to right field landed about ten rows right below us and the fans implored the guy to throw it back , he didnt. If you ever get the chance to go to any major league ballpark I recommend the Reds home park. It is simply beautiful. Right on the river with a riverboat to boot and there isnt a bad seat in the ballpark. Walking too our seats we could look right down into the Braves bullpen. The parking can be a problem ,I paid ten bucks to park in a hotel parking lot. Ryan Freel made a highlight reel catch in right field slamming into the base of the wall after making a sliding catch. The whole ballpark came to their feet applauding in appreciation of his effort. Anyway I’ll stop blabbing about my trip to Cincinnati. As far as the playoffs go , the Braves chances are nonexistent. Road or Home it doesnt really matter , they are left with 52 games of futility to think about a season lost to injury , inconsistent play and managements too late trade efforts.

By Ron

August 7, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this

The Braves’ most loyal fan, Pearl Sandow, died in April this year at the age of 103. She attended 1,889 consecutive Braves games at Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium, from the first game the Atlanta Braves played there in 1966 through the 1989 season. The bus man at Our Way Cafe in Avondale told me that not one single representative from the Braves organization attended her funeral. Is that true - can anyone confirm that? Anyway, the bus guy is convinced that she put a curse on the team. Now, I’m not saying I believe in curses, but Our Way Cafe does make the best creamed corn I’ve had since my grandma died in 1975, so who am I to doubt the bus guy there?

By Edward Van Halen

August 7, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

Hopefully, the Braves can produce a decent shortstop to take over for Renteria when his contract expires. They could use the money they save on that and by not signing Giles to resign Andruw and clean up the starting pitching as contracts start to expire.

By MBATL

August 7, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this

FYI, from mlbtraderumors.com, regarding AJ:

And then there’s the matter of which team was awarded the claim. Speculation that it was an NL Central team has proven true, according to Will Carroll. Carroll tells us the Astros were awarded the claim. Well-regarded pitching prospect Troy Patton is not on Houston’s 40-man roster, so the Astros wouldn’t have had to pass him through waivers in a deal.

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

Bob, I heard that a slightly different way. Often times when but a lad I would walk outside and catch the Elder Grinch motionless in the front yard, sipping a cocktail or smoking a pipe and ruminating. When I would ask him what he was doing, he would invariably reply “A southern gentleman is always outstanding in his field,” then go back to what he was doing. I thought he was nuts until I was about 13 and finally got it. Now that I’m older, I realize he WAS nuts (runs in the family), but not for that reason. :-)

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

Don, thanks for catching the typo on the road record. Yes, 29-31, not 29-21.

All other stats are correct, however. At least I think I just double-checked them all _ sorry about the goof. It happens occasionally on the blog, simply because we don’t have copy editing on these things and I’m usually in a hurry to file it before leaving the house. Don’t get a chance to re-read.

Anyway … the stats are pretty crazy. Or, as Cox just said a few minutes ago, “Pretty weird, isn’t it.” Nobody can put a finger on it with Braves.

As for the theory of Braves having only “warning track” power that Nathan offered _ uh, that wouldn’t explain why the other NL teams playing road games in the same road parks the Braves are playing them in haven’t piled up the homers and runs the Braves have. I mean, those teams outside the NL East are only playing three games at Turner Field. The rest of their road games are being played in the same places the Braves play theirs. Think about it, Nathan.

By David Lee Roth

August 7, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this

With the Braves current roster, they are depending on the shortstop position for some solid batting. With Chipper back and with a solid hitting left fielder, you’d almost be able to concede to a sub-par bat at the shortshop as long as the defense was good.

By Jim Bob

August 7, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

Right now, the Braves are pretty much conceding to a weak bat in left field. With Chipper back, left field is pretty much the only position that has a weak bat. However, it’s not that big of a deal as Langerhans provides above avg defense. Bobby Cox has always had a position that wasn’t necessarily being handled by a strong bat, as long as they are above avg defense, whether it’s the infield or outfield.

By Kathy

August 7, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

The thing that concerns me is who they would replace as a power hitter if they get rid of or not re-sign Andruw. It appears Langerhans may be able to slide to center field and provide adequate defense. Without Andruw’s bat, you’d almost have to sign a top free agent outfielder to replace him. Who would be available that would be cheaper than Andruw?? Possible by then Franceour may develope into a consistant threat.

By MBATL

August 7, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

Eddie, Braves have plenty of SS prospects; Escobar is probably ready to join the big team next year, but by the time Edgar’s contract is up, Elvis Andrus will probably be ready. Makes you wonder - if the Braves keep Edgar, you might think about trading Escobar for pitching.

Or, you could probably do real well trading Edgar if you felt like you could stand to lose the bat.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 7, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

oh, the humanity! home depot was out of stock! now, journalist must travel to another, more distant home depot just down the street - but journalist has stopped by the blog first to be certain bob is awake for the game. bob might want to go with the ronald reagan portrait instead of the mirror -or maybe conway twitty (a dob favorite jimmy smith will bet). tonight, bobby cox will surprise us with his lineup. not sure why journalist thinks that - the pitcher is right handed - but journalist is ready just in case. will bobby dews’ head swell now that he is a media darling? journalist bob, might try a bobby dews portrait, too. that should keep bob on his toes while shaving.

now, prose disguised as blogging: “Because at this rate, the Braves’ flickering wild-card hopes will be snuffed out by too much time at home in August and September,” this writing has been submitted to wurlitzer in an effort to secure the elusive prize for dob.

By Eddie Van Halen

August 7, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this

True about the prospects at SS. They do have a decent group. Not too familiar on their batting. Would they be able to step in and provide a solid bat, somewhere in the viscinity of what Renteria is producing?? It’s weird with the Braves. We don’t have the luxury of spending whatever to get or keep whatever. Always have to look at positions we can save at and use the salary elsewhere.

By Carolina Lady

August 7, 2006 06:23 PM | Link to this

Bob and Grinch, aviation was my ‘field’…physics of baseball is not - though the same principals are bound to apply since there are objects flying through the air and both from a field. :-))

By Ted Turner

August 7, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

I hate to admit it but the Braves kind of need to go back to where they had solid pitching with a mediocre offense. They have a huge salary tied into pitching now, but except for Smoltz, not much to show for it this year. The Braves should keep what they have right now as an infield and let Giles walk after this year and let Renteria walk after next year (or whenever his contract is up). Be then, Hudson and Hampton will have cycled out.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

all the theories but no one figured out that they have a losing rcord at home AND away….reason is they aren’t very good !!!

By Gary

August 7, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this

When does Renteria’s contract expire? Is it after next year or the year after?

I agree with letting him go after that, although he’s a huge asset to this team. Other than Smoltz, Ramirez, Davies, and that other guy i can’t think of right now that pitches like a poor man’s Tom Glavine, I wish the contracts of all the other startes were up after this season.

By Bobby Cox

August 7, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

The Braves really got screwed lately with starting pitching. Hudson isn’t much more than a 3rd or 4th starter. Hampton is out for years. Thomson has been screwed by bad luck.

With all that success in the past and continuing to invest in pitching, the decisions haven’t panned out.

By nathan

August 7, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I did after I typed it DOB. That’s why on the second post, I stated that I actually have no “good” explanation. But I hear ya! Besides, I’m not sure Turner Field has ever been as much of a pitchers park as everybody says it is. I think we’ve just had good pitchers. Glavine, Maddux, & Smoltz would make ANY park a pitchers park, correct? In fact, didn’t they make the Launching Pad into a pitchers park of sorts for a decade? I guess maybe all of the foul ground made up for the rest?

Anyhow, I figured you’d be on me about that DOB. Obviously Francoeur and Andruw have much more than warning track power.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 7, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

carolina lady, kitty hawk, right? did you know journalist bob was once a wright brother? that’s right, there were two brothers, orville, wilbur, and bob. bob was not involved in the flight that day - he overslept. still, history will remember orville and wilbur at kitty hawk but bob was at camp d’auvours and should receive some credit. now, baseball … journalist has a feeling something strange will happen with the lineup. hope journalist is wrong.

By jim in pine mountain

August 7, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

When we get past Smoltz and Ramirez it is AAA pictching trying to compete in the National league. Send Hudson back to the American league. Hudson has done very little to help the Braves.

By Bob, journalist

August 7, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

Grinch, the reference to portraits was out of deference to Lew … what I personally use are my favorite pictures of clowns.

My father always promised me a pocketknife … said he’d give me one when he was sure that I wouldn’t cut myself … never gave me one but he left me his.

My father was my greatest hero, as I’m sure is the case for most … he once told my brother that of all his inner struggles, repressing pride was the toughest … he was proud as punch of his children, supporting our every effort and always urging us all to do our best … you could see the love and pride in his eyes but verbal expressions of pride seldom passed his lips.

I’m more like Mama, I’ll call my son and leave a message “Robbie, I’m proud of you son … love you, call me, bye” … when the book talks about the evils of pride, I don’t think that’s what God had in mind.

By Lew

August 7, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

Journalist Bob-You must look at the argument in the context in which it was argued. The original hypothesis was from Shaun that OBP was the most important statistic and that based on this, young Francoeur was not a productive player. I, on the other hand, feel that he is quite productive, in that he has many RBI and is thus productive. You are totally taking this statement out of context. Scoring runs IS the purpose of the offensive side of a baseball game. Keeping runs FROM scoring, the defensive purpose. Hence, if a player causes runs to score, QED-he is productive. Now people may WATCH baseball for other reasons, but when they step onto the field of play, yes, the purppose is to score runs.

By Jimmie Johnson #48

August 7, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

Keep Giles as he is my good friend.

I don’t fully understand what minor league talent will get you if you don’t trade them and you never have a position open for them. You figure McCann is set at Catcher for at least 6+ years. You figure that while Chipper is always injd, he’s probably here for 3-5 more years. What is the long term goal at shortshop and second base? If they sign Giles and plan to keep Renteria, why would they even bother keeping any top prospects at that position that are ready now?

By Joe

August 7, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this

You’re right Jim.

Hudson would be a #1 starter for most american league teams. Too bad they couldn’t unload him, even if they got nothing in return. Hard to get a good streak going when 3 of your starting pitchers belong in AA or AAA. James shows a little promise. Thomson was a solid starter for the majority of the time he was healthy. I don’t think peaple realize how much the Braves need Kyle Davies.

By Jeff Gordon

August 7, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

Talent is great but what good does it do in AAA. What’s going on with Salty? They mine as well send him to the Marlins for Dontrell Willis as what benefit is Salty going to ever provide. He’s going to be the same as Betemit; always the top prospect but never gets a chance. Then, gets traded when he is in his mid to late 20’s for a quick fix reliever.

By Gary

August 7, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

I don’t know what to say about minor league prospects. It came in handy last year with Frency, McCann, Langerhans, Betemit, and Kelly Johnson. However, you could kind of see it comming. The outfield was a wreck when the season started. They knew what they were getting with McCann. Aside from possibly replacing Giles, I don’t see any use out of infield prospects for the next few years. They don’t make good bench players/pinch hitters. They are good sometimes when a regular goes down. The biggest thing right now would be pitching prospects as you can never have enough pitching.

By Lowes#48

August 7, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

True that on the minor league prospects. The Braves need to get Dontrell Willis in the offseason. Team that with Smoltz, Hampton, Ramirez, Davies, Hudson, Thomson, James. That would be 8 starters. Start the 5 that perform the best and release or trade the rest. If Hudson it still there, pray for the year to go by fast so we can let him walk after contract is up.

By ncscoots

August 7, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

MBATL, man, if the Braves trade Escobar, I start rootin’ for the Russians, or the Phillies, or somebody. I know, he’s still just a prospect, but, brother, his toolbox is full. Personally, I think there will be room for Yunel and Elvis when their times come, and I can’t wait to see it.

By Lew

August 7, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

Lowes-Thomson is inthe final year of his contract. Being that he made $4.5 million this year, it is doubtful they will even attempt to re-sign him as a free agent.

By Bob, journalist

August 7, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, I went back to the yearbook, just to see if my memories of Dews were accurate … Little Bobby was as I remembered, but there were a lot of surprises. From those pictures, I did not even recognize my AirForce ROTC squadleader, Buddy Blemker who you may remember as a Tech basketball and baseball star.

I can tell by looking at his face and mine, that though we’ve traveled different paths, Mister Dews and I have both paid ours.

By Bill

August 7, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

Thomson will not be back.

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

Oh, I love it. Here we go again. Why don’t we trade Salty for Dontrelle? Good question. Why don’t we trade Will Startup for the heart of the Yankees’ order? He’s a good prospect, and Rivera will break down one day; they’d be stupid not to. No offence, dude, but it takes two to tango and even the worst GM in the majors is shrewder than you or I will ever be, or he wouldn’t have that job. Too much money at stake.

By MBATL

August 7, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

scoots, I don’t disagree (well, maybe I don’t feel as strongly as you do…). Escobar is 23 (will be 24 by spring training), and a mature 23 having played pro ball in Cuba.

I just think that either we commit to Renteria through ‘08 and consider trading Escobar, or consider trading Edgar and playing Escobar. Personally, I think that given the contract contributions from Boston, Edgar would be a huge asset in trading for pitching.

Anyway, if Escobar is going to be stuck behind Edgar for 2 or 3 years, maybe we should see what he’s worth on the market. And while Escobar is a good prospect, Andrus may be the next A-Rod, from what I read…

By gobravesinTN

August 7, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

Got to attend the Cincy game Sat. and Im so glad to see Braves Nation out in full force - we still are well represented all across the country…The season’s problem is simply too many injuries in a rotation that, to me wasn’t very solid to begin with. And most importantly, bad performance by the bullpen. It’s that simple, everything else is just senseless jargon. I blame the ownership and ownership only…Keep supporting the TEAM.

By DonCoburleone

August 7, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

Good article DOB, it is definately strange. It used to be a good thing to be playing more at home than on the road (and still is for all other teams). I just don’t know, it all started after that sweep in Chicago at the end of May and they came home for that 9 or 10 game homestand. Then they got swept in 4 straigt by the D-Backs at home and ended the homestand with a 2-8 or 1-9 record. I think they were playing at least respectable baseball at home before that. It just seems ironic to me that we have a pitchers friendly park, and for the first time in 14 years WE HAVE NO PITCHING! It just sucks.

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this

Looks like you were right about the lineup, Jimmy. HoRam’s looking sharp tonight so far, as well.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this

Good evening, Braves fans and good people. I have been at work today where I can read the blogs but can’t actually enter anything in.(Work internet restrictions) I have to weigh in on a few things that were mentioned on this blog and the other one.

First, Shaun, I respect your opinion but I have to say I don’t know how you can say the arraingment of a lineup doesn’t really matter. I couldn’t disagree more. How a lineup is constructed is very important. Need we look any further than Marcus Giles. When he is in the leadoff position he looks like he would rather be stuck in a small room with Flavor Flav than he hitting leadoff. Put him in the 2 hole and he just may be the most dangerous 2 hole hitter in the National League. How a lineup looks is very important. Not just anyone can leadoff. Not just anyone can hit 3rd or 4th. Going with your theory the Red Sox would bat Manny 1st and Big Pappi 2nd with Varitek 3rd and Youklis 4th. How many runs do you think that offense would actually score with that lineup. Not very many. Your best power hitters should be in the 3 through 5 holes ideally. Your best combination of power and average is generally in the 3 hole even though that is not always true. Your worst hitter should be batting 7th in the NL and 8th in AL. Some guys approach are suited for certain spots in the lineup. You need not look any further than Atlanta’s lineup. Giles is the perfect 2 hole hitter. Andruw is the ideal cleanup hitter. Chipper is best in the 3 hole. In fact, one of the biggest problems with this lineup is that it is not balanced. LaRoche is a 5 hole hitter but so is McCann. Honestly, against right handed pitching I would put LaRoche in the 6 hole and Francoeur 7th. But, that’s me.

To the other argument about OBP and RBI. How can you say that RBIs are overrated. That is ridiculous. Because as KC, Lew, and many others pointed out, it does no good to get on base if you don’t have people behind you that can drive you in. They both go hand in hand. Yes, Frenchy’s OBP is abominable but he drives in runs and that is very important. For all his flaws if you take him out of this lineup, the Braves record would be much more like the Cubs and Pirates than a record that would be very good with one good winning stretch. I don’t care who it is. If a guy can drive in 100+ runs in the majors than he belongs. There is nothing harder in baseball than coming through in the clutch. If it was so easy then more guys would do it. Most teams will have two players hit 100+RBI and if you can get more than that then you have a damn good offense. The Braves will have two guys and could possibly get four. Chipper and LaRoche would be long shots but they could do it. And besides a power hitter doesn’t need to have a great OBP as he does the RBI. Ideally you want the first 3 guys in the lineup to have the highest OBP.

Now, as for why the Braves struggle at home. One reason is that this offense is simply not built for The Ted. Could you imagine this team if they got to play in Cincinnati or Wrigley for 81 games? Another reason is that our pitchers are not flyball pitchers but ground ball and line drive pitchers and thus a lot of teams use the space in the gaps to their advantage.

Another reason (and I know I will get it for saying this) is the lack of fan support. I work with a guy (I live in Indiana) who recently went to Atlanta for business and as part of a “business outing” went to a Braves game. He went to the game when Andruw and LaRoche hit the 8th inning HRs to beat the Marlins. This guy really doesn’t care for baseball and knows little about it. He said he was shocked at how empty the stadium was compared to its capacity and the fact that this team had won 14 straight division titles. He said most of the game people sat on their hands. He said even when the Hrs were hit there were some people cheering and clapping but most of the crowd just clapped softly and sat there like it was no big deal. I remember as late as 3 or 4 years ago that everytime the Braves got a runner on base the crowd would get loud and boisterous and it rattled the other team. Now, even watching it on tv you can hear a pin drop in that place. And while baseball doesn’t necessarily feed off the crowd emotion like football and basketball does, it does make a difference and I know if I were a player it would be very hard to get pumped to play when my own fans either boo me or just do nothing.

By Tonight on TBS

August 7, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this

After the game…

Met-Tanic (1997)

Tragic tale of 2 veteran hurlers, Glavine (Leonardo DeCapria) and Martinez (Kate Winslett) aboard an incredibly expensive and seemingly unsinkable juggernaut that capsizes before reaching the World Series. Nine hours (or so it seems). Parental warning: the scene where Glavine sketches Martinez in the locker room is NOT for children.

By Bob, journalist

August 7, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this

Lew, I don’t think anyone ever said that I could effectively express myself … and if they did, it’s probably because they were well paid.

As I saw it, the context included the primise that outscoring the opponent is the objective of the individual game … and consistently so doing, the objective of league or tournament play.

My comments weren’t intended to argue with either side and I thought there was perhaps more common ground to be found in the thread than in most. Mine were but some thoughts triggered by the thread, albeit they may be out of your perception of the context … and might have best been left unsaid … apologies.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 07:37 PM | Link to this

Lets see they play slightly better if a left hander is pitching on Tuesday afternoons than if McDowell sits to the right of Bobby Cox during night ganes….Who the hell cares!!

The pitching is bad, there is no speed, too many strikeouts (maybe the bat just touching the ball could be an improvement), and a general thinking that if we can just look at the win / loss stats long enough that Willy Wonka will make our playoff dreams come true.

DOB how about telling us what the Braves plan to do to fix this mess? Or is there a plan? How will the budget allow for an improved team next year not just the same team coming back for more. Please give me more than if Davies, Boyer, and Foster are here next year that the Mets will shriek with fear and run away. The Mets are winning this year and yet are already PLANNING FOR NEXT YEAR. Face it they are a better team!! Maybe if JS had done those moves with Furcal he would still be here at around 8 million. and we might not need a flashing yellow light and a policeman to get a runner past first base.

What is going to happen to make next years team any different from this years? And stop the wild card crap only a six year old with a serious case of ignorance believes this team can win or even deserves to win the wild card. Sorry but I seem to be suffering from post traumatic stress disorder from watching this train wreck…

By Carolina Lady

August 7, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

Kitty Hawk??? KITTY HAWK??? Dear cousin, Jimmy. No. I was not at Kitty Hawk with the Wright Bros. Neither one - Orville, Wilbur, or Bob. I was just a liiiiiittle later. :-)))

I do admit to being impressed! How many people have ever heard of Camp D’auvours, much less of its context in the ‘conversation’? Salute!

Now you got some ‘splainin’ to do: just how did baby seal and hartebeest leave without your knowing?? Hmmmmm???

By Mike

August 7, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this

I dont put much stock in straight stats. The Braves went 20 games in June with only 2 wins. 13 of those games were at home. For the rest of the season they are a respectable 21-15 at home and 28-25 on the road. Thats good enough for a wild card lead as well. You have to put things in perspective sometimes. Take that stretch in June out and this team has performed well considering injuries, no bullpen, and limited salary.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this

But that is just it Mike you can’t remove twenty games in June. We played ‘em , we lost ‘em….now why and how can we improve so it doesn’t happen again.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this

Shawn, you are right. This policy of not wanting to negotiate contracts during the season has backfired twice that I can remember. Furcal wanted to sign an exntension in spring training and again before the all-star break and JS wouldn’t even consider it. Furcal got a little pissy and in the end left. You’re right we would have had him for 8 mil about the same we got Renteria for. The same could be said of Sheffield. Sheffield wanted to sign an extension during the year and again JS wouldn’t discuss it and Sheff took as the Braves really didn’t want him. Now, yes, he signed for more with the Yanks but the Yanks wouuld have never been in the picture if Atlanta had simply signed him during the season. Hell, they did the same thing with Chipper. They waited until the contract ran out and then signed him over the winter. IMO that is a stupid policy to have.

By AMB

August 7, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

Braves had been lucky all these years that despite their attrocious pitching they had managed to win their division. I guess their luck has finally gone south. They need some good pitchers, not one or two great pitchers; they need good relief pitchers, not pitchers that need relief. Their pitching woes are nothing new, they go back 10 years. I think they need better general manager and perhaps a good manager.

By DonCoburleone

August 7, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

Whoever mentioned earlier about the Braves partying too hard while they are at home I think may be on to something. I think Frenchy plays well at home cuz he is one of those guys who may actually be better when he’s not feeling all that well (forces him to block everything out and focus). All of this “home grown” talent may be backfiring because all of the teams go and hang out with their buddies when the team is in Atlanta. But, i don’t know, it may just be a coincidence. Or, it may just be that this team really is a less than .500 team and by the seasons end it will just about even itself out…. ya never know…

By shawn

August 7, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

The Braves make a habit of not negotiating with young players until they hit the free agent year. IF they are good players by then their salary demands have soared. By the end of next year JS will have to decide is Francouer, McCann and LaRouche worth tying up long term or not. It is always cheaper now than when they hit the free agent year unless they totally crash in their development.

By Heath

August 7, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

someone explain to me why atlanta pitches to ryan howard or david wright…please explain this to me?!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

Mike, Shawn is right. That June stretched showed this team’s weaknesses. It made it painfully obvious that Brian Jordan, Mike Remlinger, Chris Reitsma, Jorge Sosa, and Todd Pratt not only had no business on the roster but was causing us to lose games. I don’t care what Sosa did last year. He was horrible in spring training. You saw his meltdown coming from a mile away. The bullpen was horrible in spring training. What made anyone think it was going to get better in the regular season against major league hitting.

This is a good team. I still believe despite all the flaws that its the second best team in the National League. But, when all of the deficiencies show up at once, you have a month like June. I mean our biggest asset is the offense. And it is horribly flawed becuase of the lack of balance.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

AMB you don’t win 14 years in a row on luck. You build a team to out manuever, out play, out hustle, and out think your competition. The last three years that gap closed. We are doing none of those things well now. Mets are a better team my friends and it is not as close as the standings. They came in , kicked our a*s, and took it and left us all ponder is it because we lose less games on the road than at home. The Mets must love reading this crap and hope that JS and BC are pondering the same stats as a way to improve…

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, I visited Kitty Hawk in 1986 to hanglide; I’m sure it was the place he was referencing, not the time. Surely that journalist wouldn’t be so uncavalier… Except in Bob’s case(meaning his reference to Bob’s being there, not Bob being uncavalier)… Bob; I know what you mean about fathers. The Elder has never given me a hug or told me that he loves me, but I know he does just the same. There will not be many like him when he is gone. Man, Meyers has nasty stuff. Why can’t we have one of those? I know, let’s trade Salty for him and a prospect! :-)

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

I tell you what if JS isn’t careful he will lose LaRoche, Francoeur, and McCann because by the time free agency rolls around for those guys they all will be commanding 10 to 15 mil a year and the Braves could lose out. I’m serious. Think about it. By then the Yankees would have a need for all three of those postions. If you play with fire, you are bound to get burned.

By Jimmy Buffet

August 7, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

One more time now,

Now, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know where the ball is gonna go, When the Brave starters throw.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this

The fact is the Mets are doing things the right way. They just locked up Reyes and Wright for the next 6 years. I wouldn’t be surprised if Milledge isn’t far behind. Everything I read today said the Mets got those two guys to sign extensions that was below market value and less than what they would have probably got in arbitration. Now, I more than anyone has mentioned how the Mets are so good this year because they had the money to spend. However, in this case, money had nothing to do with it. Good business did. I give Minaya all the props. He got arguably the best 3B and best SS in the National League for a cheap price and won’t be saddled with top heavy contracts for years to come.

By Braves20

August 7, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this

re: not negotiating in season. I question whether the Braves really wanted the two mentioned players. Furcal’s problems were well documented. And Sheffield hit.062 in two post seasons. Todd Pratt could do that.

By Carolina Lady

August 7, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I’m in that area frequently! Got some biig sand piles, huh?! They aren’t what they used to be, but they’re fair enough! :-)

By Bob, journalist

August 7, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

I always thought Camp D’auvours, was place where little girls went in the summer to learn how to make neat little snacks to serve at parties … now I find out it’s where my brother went in search of fame and glory … all he brought back was a talking horse who sounded like Alan Lane.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

Braves 20, I can’t believe the Braves wouldn’t have wanted Sheffield. What Raul Mondesi was a better choice. C’mon, man. No, their policy about not negotiating with players bit them in the butt and they got stuck with Brian Jordan and Raul Mondesi. The fact is Jeff Francoeur got his a** out of a sling when he was called up in July last year.

By MBATL

August 7, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

So, the Mets are a better baseball organization than the Braves?

By MEB

August 7, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

Why don’t umpires administer the rules of baseball. Rule 6.08b of the Major League Baseball rulebook clearly tells the umps that hitters must make an effort to avoid being hit by the baseball when not making a swing. Shane Victorino was obviously guilty of zero effort to avoid the ball.

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

Nathan, I didn’t get on you nearly to the degree that the good folks here did about my road-record typo. It’s all part of the game, my friend. Type something stupid (like I did), you hear it. No worries.

Jimmy _ a good Conway Twitty photo, with that great head of hair of his, would be a fine addition to any home office.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 7, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

no, no, carolina lady … jimmy smith would never suggest that you were at kitty hawk with the brothers wright. journalist only meant that kitty hawk is just up the coast from wilmington. now, bob … that is a different story. he pioneered flight and is quite old. bob also knew american leaguer polonius and his son laertes (akin to national leaguers bobby bonds, barry bonds). baby seal has tasted freedom with his jaunt to the coast. i fear baby seal and the hartebeest may be on the way to canada in search of baby seal’s relatives.

oh, the humanity! finger numbness! finger numbness on horacio! turn out the lights …

By Braves20

August 7, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this

Robert - Did I forget to mention .062 in not one but two post seasons?

By Moe

August 7, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

Neil Diamond often went to Camp D’oeuvre. Or is it that his oeuvre is pretty campy?

Isn’t Alan Lane the father of Diane Lane.

By Bob, journalist

August 7, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this

We don’t want folks to get the wrong idea … there were only two Wright brothers, me and Orville … trust me, Wilber was adopted … and always wrong, never right.

By ryan bauer

August 7, 2006 08:25 PM | Link to this

did horacio leave the game due to injury, what just happened?

By Heath

August 7, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

..down 4-1…looking awful….kills me to say this…but for the first time ALL year, I have given up hope that the Braves will make the playoffs….they just do not have the pitching to support my hopes

By journalist jimmy smith

August 7, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

diane lane now calls jimmy smith her daddy - but alas, it is over. diane lane is yesterday’s pudding. journalist wonders about all these injuries from throwing the ball. if horacio is lost so is the season. is this thomson finger? is it reitsma finger? is it possible bobby will not pull villarreal before the game is lost? oh, the humanity! langerhans dropped the ball? more numbness?

By Woody

August 7, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

Atlanta fans, give your team what they deserve. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Maybe Philly has the right idea. Move half your team at start over!

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

Man, I went out to light the grill and the Vulture is on the mound when I return…what did I do in the last life to deserve this?
C.L., big enough to bust my behind on, anyway. :-) Beautiful place, love the swirling wind on that beach. Different than most. Nice “Rocky” reference, Bob! Moe, you’re a rather witty fellow; that soert of thing is noticeable on a blog such as this, where wit is often in short supply.

By Heath

August 7, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

pooring it on now….6-1…digging the knife further into my heart

By nathan

August 7, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

You callin’ me STUPID?

just kidding……LOL!

:)

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

“Sort;” excuse me. Did HoRam, Reitsma and Thompson all order the fish instead of the chicken one night, or what? This must be investigated promptly. I smell some sort of conspiracy…

By Heath

August 7, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

…i can’t even keep up….7-1 now….phils batting around!!!….y do i torture myself?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this

This is awful. It doesn’t matter what kind of offense you have. Why do those guys want to go hit and try to score runs when they have stand out in the field and watch garbage like this?

By MurphyRules

August 7, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

God this team sucks.

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

Hoo-ray for our resurrected bullpen! Good thing starting pitching is our only problem now, huh? Man; time for a drink.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

MBATL at this moment for this year and the for next year or two they have put together a well balanced team poised for success. Yes they could use a pitcher or two for next year but they have positioned themselves to get it. We have holes and quite frankly I don’t see HOW we are going to fill them. Right now maybe not the better organization but certainly the better team is in NY..

By Carolina Lady

August 7, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

I just saw on the mlb.com ‘crawl’: “Nathan Named DHL Delivery Man of the Month.”

Nathan, zat you??? Way to go! :-))

By shawn

August 7, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

Furcal’s problems were well documented? Pratt over Sheff? Are you on crack..seriously???..the difference in Sheff and Pratt is that Pratt is lucky to even get in to a game…

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

I didn’t include Sosa in my earlier post because he never had an excuse; he just sucked. At least now I don’t have to worry about burning anything on the grill; no need to hurry back to the TV. HOWEVER, the game ain’t over yet. I don’t believe it will happen tonight, but I have seen bigger comebacks. Of course, they were mostly in football…

By rb

August 7, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

while this is horrid baseball, the game isn’t over and neither is the season, sometimes its better to have blind faith or stupidity whatever you want to call it, they get davies back soon which should help and chipper coming back will help for sure, plus him coming back makes the bench stronger too.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

Why doesn’t Bobby bat Renteria leadoff now. Have Giles stay in the 2 hole and move McCann up to the three hole. I don’t care if he isn’t fast. He can hit. They can then move Roachy up to the 5th spot and drop Aybar to the 8th hole. Of course, that makes too much sense. So, disregard my question. I wasn’t thinking.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB I have an interesting stat for you….in games this year that the Braves have played day or night, home or on the road, in which there record will back me up on this….they have sucked.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this

Davies and Chipper coming back…woooo…print the playoff tickets

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this

You may have a point, RB. At least St. Louis is putting a whoopin on the Reds right now, so we can’t lose any ground.

DOB, has there been one closed door meeting this year with this team? One players only meeting? I’m just wondering if these guys accept this type of crap or is someone getting pissed off about it? Do you have any clue?

By journalist jimmy smith

August 7, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

well, bobby should be calling for “P” player pete orr anytime now. should pete orr get on, he is fast! of course, if pete orr gets on, then bobby may have to call for “p” player pratt depending on the matchup. and what is a situational lefty? is that like a situational dummy?

By shawn

August 7, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

Robert before we get happy about Cincy losing isn’t there everyone else except the Pirates and Cubs in front of us too….

By Omar Minaya

August 7, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

Ha! Our team is unsinkable. We will win the championSHIP. No ifs, ands, oars or buts. The Braves failing to make the playoffs will be like the iceberg on the cake. Pardon me, I have to arrange a trade for Jorge SOSa.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this

Good point, Shawn. But, since the Reds are the current leader they are the team to worry the most about right now.

At least these guys are showing some heart. They aren’t just rolling over.

By rb

August 7, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this

robert (justice is best)- i think that is a brilliant way to play that lineup, roachy is hot, hit him some better rbi shots, mccann deserves to be higher up in the order and aybar deserves to be lower in the order, great idea, now make it happen.

By Woody

August 7, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

“sometimes its better to have blind faith or stupidity whatever you want to call it, they get davies back soon which should help and chipper coming back will help for sure, plus him coming back makes the bench stronger too.”

Stupidity works for me.

By MBATL

August 7, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

JS’ moves have made sense, but in some cases haven’t worked. We chose not to pay Sheff $13 mil a year; and we chose not to pay Drew $11 mil. Instead we’ve got Francouer and Langerhans. We signed Hampton with a lot of help from Colorado and Florida, and we signed Hampton, which appeared to be a great move.

Those two players are the reason we’re struggling. Give us what we had a reasonable right to expect from those two, and all is well.

By MBATL

August 7, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

that’s Hampton and Hudson, obviously…

By journalist jimmy smith

August 7, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

journalist is concerned, deeply concerned, with the loss of horacio. this team cannot afford to lose more pitching. the game may yet be won - but it is hard to think the wild card attainable without pitching. oh, the humanity! can these pitchers not soak their fingers in pickle juice like the old days? (bob will have to explain) he has a good brine for the subject.

By Vol

August 7, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

Pretty shocked they pitched to LaRoche with runners on 2nd & 3rd and 2 out. Guess it paid off for them.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

Never said they have quit on us this year only that JS and BC put a p**s poor combination of players together. Whether it be money, arrogance, or the Midas touch syndrome they are to blame for this wreck. Now let me be frank I like both and no don’t advocate a change but I am very interested in HOW they are going to improve this team for next year. Status quo with 3-4 independent league/Australin team pitchers won’t do it next year….

By M

August 7, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

Who cares if they’ve had a players-only meeting? Like that is some fail-proof solution to every problem.

By Vol

August 7, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

I don’t have it on TV tonight, and there must be something wrong with the Internet. Oscar is stil in there.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

God help me, if Villaeral comes back for the 6th. They need to get a hold here, have a quick inning and let the offense get back on the field.

When Chipper comes off the DL, I believe the lineup should be like this. 1.Renteria 2.Giles 3.C Jones 4. A Jones 5 McCann 6 LaRoche 7. Francoeur 8 Thorman/Langerhans/Diaz

Now, why do I have this feeling that Giles will be forced back into the leadoff role?

Heck, I would rather see McCann in the leadoff spot. Think about it. He’s the best hitter on the team and is always on base. Who cares if he’s slow and can’t steal bases. Its not like the leadoff hitters on this team steal bases as it is.

I’m revamping the lineup. 1. McCann 2. Giles 3. C Jones 4 A Jones 5 Renteria 6. LaRoche 7. Francoeur 8. Thorman/Langerhans/Diaz

By Mike

August 7, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

Why are we second guessing this teams roster. Get it healthy, plus the bullpen additions and this team is just fine. The starters and Jones’ have been plagued with injuries, the bullpen was non existent until a couple of weeks ago, and we are only 5.5 out of the wild card. I mean the bullpen upgrade alone were the same guys we were after in the offseason. Wickman in the first 3.5 months of the season would have been worth 15-20 wins we didnt get cause of blown saves. Beat the Mets? We need an extra 50 million on the payroll to buy up every free agent like they have done and the STILL WONT WIN A WORLD SERIES HAHAHAHAHA

By MEB

August 7, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

MBATL… you have hit the nail on the head. Drew and Sheff are thankfully long gone. Our “H” players have not yet delivered. Of the two, Hudson and Hampton, I don’t know which is the most frustrating.

Oh, the humanity! Franklin, another AAA call-up, is on the mound.

By krath

August 7, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

Ok, Ok I know it’s his game but geez has anyone on this team ever heard the term situational hitting? Andruw came up last inning with only one thing on his mind… hitting a homerun. When he came up it was time to keep an inning going. Giles had already hit a 2 run homer so Andruw uppercuts that popup. I’m sick of seeing everyone trying to hit a 9 run homer and that includes Andruw. Every at bat does not require a home run uppercut.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

M, I asked about the players only meeting because sometimes they do work. They have worked for this team in the past. In the Justice, Gant, Pendleton, Bream days they were frequent. Things weren’t going well they had a team meeting and challenged each other to do better. It seems that at times this team just accepts the mediocrity. I don’t know about you but that isn’t good enough for me. Heck, my daughters little league softball team has had small confrences on the field amongst themselves when things weren’t going well. I have to say they did work more often than not.

By Bob, journalist

August 7, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, you should know better than to compare Americian Leaguers with those of the National, besides, it was the Danish League and Laertes followed his daddy’s advice.

By Lee Iacoco

August 7, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this

The Braves are a business. And they should be using tried and true business management principles to solve their problems. I’ll address their lack of a mission statement at another time.

Their core competency used to be starting pitching. But they have let this slip in recent years. Now - they can try to solve this problem by restructuring. Perhaps they can ‘lay off’ some of their current starters and train replacments. But that may take a while and could be very expensive.

Instead, they should do what other business organizations would do in a similar situation: they should outsource this part of the business - preferable to an overseas vendor.

As consultant to the Braves, I have reached an agreement, in principle, with the Nippon Ham Fighters to provide starting pitchers for the first six innings of every game. After that, current bullpen staff should be well able to complete the assigments.

Just waiting for JS’s final approval.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

Mike …the team is fine????? wake up people there is 1 starter, no speed, Renteria while good will get to 100 less balls than Furcal. Chipper? 75 games a year does not a 11 million dollar player make. By the way his defense is horrid. He has been hurt for three years even though I have never in ten years seen him layout on defense for a ball. No dirt on that uniform my friend. Langerhans? Why is he a starter…becuase no one else is any better…again bad reason for him being in the lineup…..the strikeouts produce more wind than Katrina…..this team is NOT very good…wake up. The reason we are 9 games under .500 is because we are that bad.

By Lew

August 7, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this

Journalist Bob-Have no fear. I’m not upset, nor do I really disagree with your premise about the uses for which baseball can be played. I was merely pointing out that I was addressing a highly contextual situation. Your ponderings, however obtuse and convoluted they may at times be, always have some thought behind them. Which is more than I can say about some denizens of this blog. Shawn with a W-have you ever had a reasonable thought behind any of your declarations? The stats prove that they suck. How long did it take you to think that one up?

By MEB

August 7, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

shawn… you lose credibility when you resort to extreme hyperbole. I think you suffer from a severe case of Chipper envy.

By shawn

August 7, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

well Lew if people would quit telling me what they did on the road or in a twenty game stretch as if that meant anything I wouldn’t have to point it out

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this

Another situtation with runners in scoring position and another inning ended with runners left on base. Its no longer depressing; its just pathetic. Can no one on this team other than McCann just put the bat on the ball and get a hit?

By Lew

August 7, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

Shawn with a W-Thank you for your insight. I’m sure we all neded to realize that “They suck on the road and they suck at home”, “They aren’t very good”, “Furcal might still be here for $8 mil”, and “Who the hell cares”. Totally amazing analysis. A Wurlitzer is most definitely in your future.

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

Y’all, I know you’re going to come down on me for this, but I don’t care. Yeah, Francour just blew an opportunity to tie the game. But, he ain’t far off and with his propensity for getting big hits already showing at this stage in his young career, I think he’ll get it next year. I predict he’ll be a superstar sooner rather than later, and with McCann (who, barring injury has a decent shot at being one of the best hitting catchers EVER) and LaRoche we have a hell of a good nucleus for next year. I think the holes that are glaringly apparent this season won’t be so next year(and certainly the year after, if the right contracts are signed), especially if a couple of pitching holes are filled(and Hampton will be a legit 2 or 3 starter next season). Watch and see. I’m about as much of a realist as anyone, but I see much promise with this team, and I predict many of you naysayers will be extolling the virtues of JS for building such a roster this time next year when we’re 10 games up. So sayeth the Grinch; mark it down and stuff it in my face if I’m wrong. Amen.

By midnite

August 7, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

How does anyone realistically feel that 2007 will be any better? The cold hard truth is that we have 5 players taking the lions share of the $80M payroll. We are saddled with huge contracts for two more years. While the $80M still has us among the have’s in MLB and its more than adequate to field a competitive team. We have to get rid of some payroll. While I would hate to see Andruw leave, I feel he is the only real option to trade since he has value. This team has too many ifs to think things will be much improved next year. Maybe Hampton comes back strong and Hudson finds himself which will take some pressure off of James, Davies, and Ramirez.

By Jigoku kôshien

August 7, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Previous blogger mention Nippon Ham Fighters. They are Japanese team in Pacific League.

Many Americans hear this name and think of baked hams fighting each other like in cartoon.

Actually, team is owned by Nippon Ham company, Japan’s leading sausage maker. So they are Fighters. Not Hams Fighting.

Anyway - Nippon Ham Fighters not very good. Suggest arranging with different Japanese team for help with starting pitchers.

Go Yomiuri Giants!!! and Braves!!!

By Lew

August 7, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this

Grinh-Cutting edge analysis. And not once did you have to tell us the Braves suck.

By Steve Austin

August 7, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this

2007 will likely be a lot better. If the Braves hadn’t blown all those games due to not having a closer, they’d be leading the wild card. Wickman for the entire season would have single handingly improved the Braves by 10-15 games, plus the mental edge of feeling unbeatible would have accounted for more. I don’t think they would catch the Mets but it may be close. If there are no injuries to Chipper, Thomson, Davies, and half of the relief pitchers, they are right there.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 7, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

permit journalist jimmy smith to suggest the braves contact the orix buffaloes and inquire about wes obermueller - he of the dan kolb trade. this team will need more pitching sooner before later. wes obermueller experienced no numbness and no soreness while with the braves. it is not known how his soft tissue holds up in a game. journalist is concerned that soft tissue injury may be brought on by bad toes. the bullpen is shining tonight, right?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

I wish I didn’t care so much. This so depressing. I can’t see the game on tv; following it on the msn. Probably good I’m not watching it because I would have broken something for sure.

Was it ever said what happened to Horacio?

I really do think the kids need to be called up and lets see what they can do and let them get some experience. This is just too frustrating to watch any longer.

By Jman

August 7, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

Thank God it’s almost FOOTBALL TIME IN TENNESSEE!!! If I didnt have the Vols to look forward to I would be much more distraught over the horrible Braves.

By Steve Superior

August 7, 2006 10:11 PM | Link to this

Jman - I am glad you are looking forward to the Vols getting throttled by the Gamecocks. And the Bulldogs. And the Gators.

etc. etc.

By Carolina Lady

August 7, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

sigh

‘night, y’all.

By journalist jimmy smith

August 7, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

dob is right! “p” player pete orr is batting .198 for the season but hitting only .171 at home. looks like pete orr is decidedly better on the road. journalist thinks pete orr should be put on the road to richmond. geary could get no one out until francoeur came to bat. ball game! oh, the humanity! to top it off, carolina lady may be mad at jimmy smith. oh, carolina lady, it was an innocent geographical reference made by this journalist - nothing more. now, soft tissue … journalist is reminded of diane lane when journalist thinks of soft tissue. journalist must put such thoughts out of jimmy smith’s head. diane lane’s pudding is no better than paste. diane lane might as well be elmer lane in the kitchen. now, bedtime.

By gotigers72

August 7, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

Villareal needs to join his Arizona pal Cormier in Richmond. His ERA is now over 4.6. That is looking more and more like a bad trade. Sure Estrada needed to go. He wasn’t going to play much with McCann here. But it seems like JS could have acquired a lot more than 2 mediocre pitchers, neither of whom had even a decent history in the majors.

Braves pitchers gave up 6 walks and a hit batsman tonight, at least 4 of those scored. HoRam only gave up 1 hit, but 3 walks. After a little adversity, he started that nibbling crap again. He needs to learn not to let a little adversity throw him off his game. He was real sharp in the first 3 innings. That being said, that WAS a horrible call by the umpire. Not only did Victorino throw his elbow into the pitch, but the pitch was a freakin’ strike! If you get hit by a pitch that is in the strike zone, you don’t get to take first base. It’s a dead ball and a strike on the batter. Bad call ump.

Saw where Davies got lit up at AA last night. If he doesn’t learn to get ahead in the count and keep the ball down, his ERA will continue to be well over 6 when he comes back to the bigs. He throws way too many pitches, gets behind way too many hitters. His biggest positive is that he’s only 22 and has time to learn. But he needs to start the learning process.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this

God, this is just awful. Can we not even win back to back games anymore. The offense scores six runs and loses again. The bullpen still sucks. Villareal comes into a 2-1 game and just lets get totally away.

I want to believe this team can go on a 3-4 week tear but I just don’t see it happening. Like someone said earlier they haven’t played well all year what makes you think they will now. The Astros did it 2004, but there’s one difference. They had pitchers who could throw strikes and knew how to pitch. Unfortunately we don’t have that luxury. We have pitchers who throw fastballs down the middle of the plate on 0-2 counts or try to be cute and wind up hanging a curve ball when a simple slider or fastball down and away would do. Our schedule is the easiest of all the wild card teams and we can’t even take advantage of it. Don’t blame the Betemit trade. This team sucked with Betemit on it. Its no different now that he is gone. The biggest reason for this team’s play is the pitching. Starting pitching is bad and the bullpen defies words.

I’m trying not to give up on this season. But, can anyone tell me what hope there really is? I’m just not seeing any. Yeah, Chipper is coming back this weekend but Chipper doesn’t pitch. This offense has scored runs without him. I wanna cry but they’re not worth the tears.

By nathan

August 7, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

Oh! What do ya know?

Another garbage time home run by your 13.5 million dollar CF!

Nice you could show up for the game Andruw! What were you doing for the 1st 8 innings?

BTW - Injury or no injury, THAT is EXACTLY why I will NEVER get my hopes up about HoRam! Just when you think he can be relied on to carry some of the load he either gets hurt or gets bombed. Tonight it just happened to be both! Kinda like the pitching version of Chipper, don’t ya think?

You know it’s BAD when DOB stays away for the last 5 innings! LOL.

Thought you were on vacation last week? Just Kidding man, glad to have you back. I’m sure Terrance is glad you’re back, so I don’t have to “lock up” his blogs anymore!

Goodnight All!

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

It’s ok, Y’all. I see promise. Andruw with a broken bat homer to the biggest part of a pitcher’s park is just icing. We will be ready next year, barring further injuries and a key signing or two. I’m actually happier with tonight’s game than the last two or three. This team has heart, and will show even more of it next year when the youngsters are older and Hampton weighs in(whatever you think of his stats, he’s a gamer of the first order). We’re on the right(warning)track. I’m actually thinking this year is a good step, to let everyone know we’re not invincable…maybe next year we’ll avoid being lackadaisical and take it all the way. Go Braves!

By nathan

August 7, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this

PS: Carolina Lady

That wasn’t me as the “employee of the month” or whatever it was for DHL! LOL

That would be WAAAAAAAAAY too much manual labor for me!

That was funny though!

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

Apologize for my spelling; not good when sober, atrocious when not. But the sentiment about the team stands.

By Tonight on TBS

August 7, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

Special presentation for Met fans.

Met-Tanic (1997)

Tragic tale of 2 veteran hurlers, Glavine (Leonardo DeCapria) and Martinez (Kate Winslett) aboard an incredibly expensive and seemingly unsinkable juggernaut that capsizes before reaching the World Series. Nine hours (or so it seems). Parental warning: the scene where Glavine sketches Martinez in the locker room is NOT for children.

By Mike R

August 7, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

I wish Dave would respond to this message… I feel the Braves will soon be the the Kansas City Royals of the National League. They will trade Andrew the way KC traded Beltran. Neither AOL or Liberty care anything about winning. Liberty will slash payroll far below the current $80 million budget. JS and BC will likely retire after next season. The good side of this is tickets will be easy to get; remember the 1970s and late 1980s!

By nathan

August 7, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

The “Met-Tanic” thing was funny the first time!

But it didn’t need to be posted a second time, second time :)

By Carolina Lady

August 7, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

Nathan, honey, I knew it wasn’t you. Just a lame joke…:-)))

cousin jimmy, this lady isn’t mad at you. But you gotta admit - it could have been taken both ways. In fact, the ‘wrong’ way was funny! :-))

By JJMB

August 7, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

Bleah! At least one can still follow the Braves for the stats. AJ’s rbi’s. McCann’s avg. Francoeur’s HR’s and rbi’s. I’m not a big LaRoche fan, but his hr stats too. Chipper’s return for his assault for the HOF. Smoltz HOF? Still a lot to play for.

I loved the Nippon Ham Fighters info. Thanks, Jigoku!

By Ron Roberts

August 7, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

My God…. can we start seeing Oscar Villareal for the dud he is? And where are the Ken Ray enthusiasts? That guy’s gone south in a hurry, as well.

But we sure needed better things out of Horacio Ramirez tonight.

Next season is setting up to be scary; our rotation, with the likes of Smoltz, Horacio, Hudson, Chuck James/Kyle Davies and Mike Hampton… have you ever seen a rotation with so many question marks?

At their peak form, they’d be formidable; but geez, outside of Smoltz, none of ‘em are consistent! Man, if we could dump some payroll enough to afford a Barry Zito, or Jason Schmidt a slightly less remarkable Mark Buehrle, or a cheaper option like Tomo Ohka (injured most of this season), or a veteran presence from a guy like Woody Williams.

Either way, this current rotation is to iffy to make the Braves a title contender in 2007 as-is. I like the starting eight, save for finding a LF who can hit for average, and either sticking with Marcus (in the 2-hole, he’s money…admit it, detractors), or give Aybar a chance to shine in an everyday role at leadoff and let’s use his speed to snatch some bases. I mean, from 1-to-8 in the order, our lineup’s as volatile and dangerous as any other out there; our pitching is awful, though.

So let’s get a quality starter this offseason to bolster an iffy rotation, and let’s re-sign Baez and plead iwth Wickman to stay one more year for us. I think Wicky sticking around another year is unlikely, frankly, but it won’t hurt to plead. That being said, if he doesn’t stay around, it might be time to bite the bullet and find out what Will Startup and/or Joey Devine have to offer when the roster gets expanded in September.

By krath

August 7, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this

Maybe Braves management believes the same as some of the bloggers here feel….. that there is really nothing wrong with this team and next year everything will “just work out.”

If’s in 2007

If Tim Hudson can pitch like he did before he came to Atlanta.

If Devine can turn into a quality reliever.

If Boyer can return to form and get out of the dog house for not letting management know the extent of his problems.

If Davies can pitch like he did the first 3 games when he came up last year and do it all season.

If Chuck James can actually be effective now that everyone in the league knows his MO and has seen him….and if he gets over giving up home runs at a Sosa like rate.

If Francoeur can develop some plate discipline.

If Chipper can play more than 140 games.

If LaRoache can come out of spring training hitting instead of kicking it in after the all star break.

If McCann can hit .340 again.

If Ho Ram can pitch with anything that resembles positive consistency.

If either/or/both Wickman and Baez are affordable and resignable.

If the Braves can overcome those mean ole’ Atlanta fans who make it too tough on them to win at home.

If Hampton can return from having his arm blown up and reconstructed to pitch like he did right before his injury.

If the second base job is filled successfully with Giles or his replacement.

If someone steps up to be a lead off hitter.

If Langerhans, Thorman, Diaz, Kelly Johnson (fill in the blank)produces offensively in left field.

I could go on, but I’m getting tired.

Anyway, I think it’s pretty obvious that positive thinking and a never say die attitude is gonna make everything all right! :)

By Greg

August 7, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this

Can we just give up on this Wild Car stuff now? It just ain’t gonna happen.

By nathan

August 7, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

Besides…last time I checked the Mets were about 75 miles down the road ahead of us. Not sure if that’s how far it is……but it’s so far that I CAN’T SEE THEM ANYMORE!

But as long as we’re on movie themes…..

Would that 9th inning homerun make Andruw the star of BROKE BAT MOUNTAIN?

Damn I’m funny! L8R!

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

Krath, I normally agree with you, but I think it’s safe to assume that probably half of the “if”s you just listed will become reality, and with a shrewed move or two to plug a couple of remaining holes this team could win another 20-25 games next year. And the year after, maybe a few more. There’s something to be said for realism, but don’t fall on your sword, man! Think of how many of these kind of seasons the rest of the world has to deal with. If it isn’t substantially better next season(barring injuries or stupid moves), I’ll buy all on this blog(save Met fans) a beer. And yes, I’ll be here, and yes, I’m serious.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

This team will be in the same position next year unless they get a leadoff hitter, a real bullpen, and decent starting pitching. Can they get all that with the current budget and not trading anybody? The answer is no. You gotta give something to get something.

I will say again that a deal with Angels should be made. Trade LaRoche, Giles, Langerhans, and Ramirez for Figgins, Kendirck, and Erwin Santana. I understand that LaRoche is showing how good of a 1B he can be and he is relatively cheap. However, we MUST get a leadoff hitter and a guy like Kendrick is exactly what this offense needs. The icing on the cake would be Santana. He is young, throws hard, and has already showed his mettle as major league starter. I have reservations about handing 1B over to Thorman and/or Jurries. However, didn’t people have reservations about handing 1B over to LaRoche. This offense needs balance. How can anyone deny this? You take McCann and Giles, when he is in the two hole, and no one else on this team knows how to come to the plate and not swing for the fences.

No doubt our lineup is powerful, but it is so homerun happy. Opposing pitchers salivate when they see Francoeur, LaRoche, and Thorman/Langerhans come up in run scoring situations. Why? Because they know they will not work a count and will be trying to swing for the fences which makes it so much easier to pitch to them. Hardly no one in this lineup has a defined role.

I mean look at the Mets. Reyes goes to plate knowing hes the leadoff hitter and all tries to do is put the ball into play and get on base. When the need calls for a power swing he gives it, but not in every at bat. Even Beltran and Wright go up looking to put the ball on the bat more than they do trying to hit it to the Jersey shore. Delgado is the all or nothing guy in the lineup and he is the only one as a good lineup should have.

Someone said it earlier and its true. These guys do not know how to situational hit. They are totally oblivious to the inning or the score. Whether they are up 10 or down 10 they try to hit the big homerun. It is ridiculous. I guarantee that Kendrick and Figgins would balance out this lineup.

Folks, this team will be not better next year unless the roster reflects a team that is balanced and can make some pitches. Also, show some damn emotion. The lose a game and act like their number didn’t come up in the powerball lottery or something. I don’t care what anyone says. As a team this team is very lax in the way it responds to loses. McCann and Smoltz show their frustration and sometimes Francoeur. The rest of the team just sighs and goes down the tunnel. Bobby just gets that look like, “almost had it” and walks away. That is not good enough anymore. Show some damn emotion.

By nathan

August 7, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts

For the most part I agree with you.

But I’m not sure Jason Schmidt belongs in the “reliable” category any more than the Braves Starters, other than Smoltz of course.

And I’m not neccessarily sold on keeping Giles, if not just for the fact that he could fetch us some more pitching in the off season.

Other than those two points, well said my man!

By Brave fan in Colrado

August 7, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this

Braves pitching gives up nine runs….

ESPN just did a bit on how bad the White Sox Buehrle has been since beginng of July. They listed pitchers with the worst ERA with Min of 30 innings since 1 July. Mark Buehrle was number one with ERA over 9. Anyone guess who was number 2…

By nathan

August 7, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this

Obviously I was referring to Jason Schmidt’s durability, not his ability. The guy hasn’t exactly stayed healthy for any stretch of time lately!

By supergrass

August 7, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

braves fan in colorado is it hudson?

By krath

August 7, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

Hope you’re right, Grinch.

By nathan

August 7, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

Brave fan in Colrado

I din’t see it, but I’m gonna guess……….TIM HUDSON?

By Braves Fan in Colorado

August 7, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

Your ace and mine….Tim Hudson; ERA 8.10

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

This team has some legitamate concerns. Where is Stockman? Why is he not here instead of Villereal?

I know this is unpopular but JS has to listen to offers for Andruw. If a team is offering good solid starting pitching you have to hear them out. This team has so many holes. Ron is right the rotation is one big question mark. If everyone pitches like they are capable, we have the best rotation in all of baseball. But, will that be the case. Can anyone even give 40/60 odds that will happen.

I hate to keeping harping on this but a leadoff hitter is a must. In close games its nice to have that guy who can get on base steal a base and manufacture a run.

I don’t know how fast Prado is but if he can steal bases then we need to call him up and see if he can handle the leadoff spot. If not, someone must be obtained in the offseason. I think re-signing Wickman could be risky but Baez is a must.

The fact is right now the only valuable pieces on this team that can be traded are Horacio, Giles, LaRoche, and Andruw. Someting has to be done. The roster cannot stay the same.

By supergrass

August 7, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

speaking of espn, top 3 braves defensive play ever 3. furcal unassisted triple play 2)ss walt wiess nlds game throwing out runner at home 1) otis nixon climbs wall, nice catch off the wall no andruw jones play in top 3

By nathan

August 7, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

what a worthles P.O.S. he’s turned out to be. OK sorry, that was a little harsh!

But how dare you! In the name of Marty Clary, he’s no ACE! LOL!

That was to obvious my friend, I actually didn’t realize that his ERA was only 8.10! I expected it to be MUCH worse.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 7, 2006 11:02 PM | Link to this

I said it last Monday and I will say it again. Both the Braves and the Red Sox may live to regret not making that trade.

By nathan

August 7, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this

In all fairness to Buehrle, I was watching the White Sox-Angels game tonight on ESPN, and just like his good buddy Bobby Cox, Guillen left him in one inning too long!

Not that explains the other starts since July, but I don’t even watch that many White Sox games, and I could tell he was out of gas in the previous inning. But what the hell do I know?

By The Grinch

August 7, 2006 11:15 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Supergrass, but he probably made 50 of the top 200. Y’all, I’m a realist, yet I still see this team doing great things. EVERYTHING that could have possibly gone wrong this year did. The youngsters will be better next year(which will make most of them superstars) and other important ones will be back(and better). Hampton will win 15 games next year, or die trying, and his attitude will positively impact the rest of the club. JS will get us a leadoff hitter with Giles’ salary(or keep him; he ain’t that bad), and maybe another tweak or two move-wise. Guys that have been injured or otherwise underperformed this year will do better next year(at least some of them); statistics and probability indicate so. Have hope, Y’all; the Grinch sees that which y’ll may not. I may be wrong, and let me have it if I am, but I don’t think I will be. Nobody accuse me of jumping on the bandwagon when it happens.

By supergrass

August 7, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this

Stockman instead of Villereal? how sad…. stockman has a problem with hamstring

By Ken Stallings

August 7, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this

To those who claim the Braves have no offense at home, these are the lists of total runs scored in their last homes games:

5

4

10

6

3

14

8

5

4

8

1

6

1

4

3

6

6

That’s an average of 5.5 runs per home game over the course of the last 17 home games. That’s very respectable, and should be enough to win you a lot of games. The Braves record over that same stretch at home is a paltry 8 wins and 9 losses!

The Braves have one glaring weakness — weak pitching all around!

By tyyosh

August 7, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this

Hey anyone,

We were at the game and could not hear any explanation given over the air or TV why McBride was brought in to face Philly’s two righties, Rollins and Victorino. Bang! Game over! We could not believe that Paronto was not brought in. Was anything said?

By supergrass

August 7, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

Atlanta has lost 23 of its last 33 games at Turner Field and its definately not bc of lack of run support, check ken stallings stats

By supergrass

August 7, 2006 11:52 PM | Link to this

my guess tyyosh is maybe to give mcbride a little rest, he pitched in all 3 games in cincy

By Tomahawkin

August 7, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this

Aight You Guys, Tommy’s up in this, This game tonite was the setiment of the whole year, We can’t beat teams by out-slugging them, Till they prove me otherwise this team is too inconsistant to make it into October

BTW Unfortunately I was watching Baseball Tonight, and they were showing the 3 top web Gems in Atlanta Braves History (Should have been top ten)…and not either of the two Andruw Jones Catches he made while his knees were bent on the wall made it, Go Figure…?

The Baseball tonite crew said that Otis Nixon’s leap over the wall in 1992 was the best…And in dat picture was David Justice Pumping his fists over and over once he realized Nixon Robbed Andy Van Slyke, The emotion that team showed was priceless…

Thoughts?

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this

In case anybody’s wondering, Horacio injury doesn’t look anywhere near as severe as Thomson. No pop or swelling like Thomson had. That said, it could keep him out a start or two or even land him on the DL.

In which case the rotation would be John Smoltz and pray for four days of rain.

Hey, I just happened to be glancing at minor league stats and saw one that’s even more perplexing than Salty’s horrible first half (Salty at least has caught fire recently, and yes, we could still see him in September, since Bobby likes having an extra catcher around and a guy who could hit one out off the bench).

Anyway, it’s Jurries. Unbelievably bad season. I think he had more RBIs _ in fact I know he did _ during spring training than he’s had all season at Richmond.

You ready for this: He’s hit .191 with five homers, 16 RBIs and 73 strikeouts in 225 at-bats. That’s just mind boggling. I haven’t heard from anyone about what in particular has made him one of the worst players on that team this season, but I’ll see tomorrow if Bobby’s heard anything.

And to think, he was the story of spring training for several weeks. Another reminder of how meaningless spring numbers can be _ and usually are.

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this

Where’s Headcoach At? I bet he threw a gane of beercans at the tv tonight, This team can make a man do that, ya know….

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2006 12:06 AM | Link to this

Mike, you wrote this:

I wish Dave would respond to this message… I feel the Braves will soon be the the Kansas City Royals of the National League. They will trade Andrew the way KC traded Beltran. Neither AOL or Liberty care anything about winning. Liberty will slash payroll far below the current $80 million budget. JS and BC will likely retire after next season. The good side of this is tickets will be easy to get; remember the 1970s and late 1980s!

HERE’s MY RESPONSE: Are the tickets so hard to get now?

Oh, and the Braves are in no danger of becoming the KC Royals of the NL. Other than that, I have no definitive answers for your other predictions/fears, etc. Could all happen. Or not.

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 12:09 AM | Link to this

D.O.B. Ur Quote… “And to think, he was the story of spring training for several weeks. Another reminder of how meaningless spring numbers can be _ and usually are.”

I’ll cosign to that… I don’t take much out of those games. I don’t start making assumptions until after the first 25 games, and basically until the team plays the last two games in Atlanta in early April…

D.O.B. U think this team is gonna make it…? I sure as hell don’t

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 12:12 AM | Link to this

I loved how Tickets were so easy to get after the Strike in 94. I remember getting free tickets for making the Honor Roll when I lived in The Clay-Co

By mariner

August 8, 2006 12:13 AM | Link to this

Of the roster decisions made by JS leading up to the season, I still have trouble with replacing Franco with Jordan. When JS let Franco go, or failed to match the 2-yr offer, I figured the price too high and he would go younger. I thought Jurries earned the job in spring training. If his stats didn’t mean anything, then what did Jordan’s lesser stats mean? If Jurries failed at the ML level, I could at least see the logic in going younger and cheaper. But the Jordan decision still puzzles me.

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 12:17 AM | Link to this

Damn! This blog is dead…It seems like everyone and Dey Mama was on here 2 weeks ago when the Braves were playing good, Go Figure?

I Dunno If any of yooz guys caught the blog a week ago about Atlanta Being ranked #13 in best cities 4 sports. I thought It was a Joke. Living outside of Atlanta now, I say It would rank probably at about 100th, I’ve seen College Towns with better fan support…

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 12:20 AM | Link to this

I thought Brian Jordan Clowned in Spring Training, I had no Idea that this year would be such a struggle 4 him, I thought he had at least 1 mo year left, Hat to see him go out like that…

By Snowball's Chance

August 8, 2006 12:40 AM | Link to this

DOB I was trying to come up with my favorite Tom Waits line but after listening to Bone Machine I couldn’t pick one. You have talked about the Onion before on this blog and they have the best interview with Tom. Listen to ” I just want to see his face” from “Exile on main street”. Keith Richards pointed Tom in his ultimate direction.

By The Grinch

August 8, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

T’hawkin, have you not read my last 4 posts? I am the light at the end of the tunnel, and well-reasoned. Join me Luke, and together(with help of the Braves) we will conquer the universe…

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 01:04 AM | Link to this

Grinch, Yes U Are my, man, Keep it coming….But where are all the other cats at?…

By The Grinch

August 8, 2006 01:16 AM | Link to this

Undoubtedly, they are doubting the Braves. They will come to rue the day they made this decision. Grinch and Tomahawkin’ are the first on the ‘07 bandwagon(and throw Lew in here, even though he’s asleep). Number 1, make it so.

By Shaun

August 8, 2006 01:23 AM | Link to this

mariner

I saw that stupid article a few days ago about Atlanta being #13 sports town in america. Who came up with that load? #100 sounds better. I don’t know what is wrong with Atlanta fans, for all sports. The Falcons phenomena will be dead if they don’t do anything this year. It’s a bandwagon city that only supports the teams when they win. I’ve been here all my life and love all the home teams. But for the life of me I don’t know what is wrong with everyone else. Love em win they lose and win.

By The Grinch

August 8, 2006 01:29 AM | Link to this

I wear the banner of the Falcons, Braves, Thrashers and Hawks proudly no matter what happens. For that matter, I do the same for my Dawgs, Ga. Southern Eagles, Ga. Force and everyone but Ga. Tech. Woof, woof, woof! Roll with THAT, naysayers…

By The Grinch

August 8, 2006 01:41 AM | Link to this

Apologies, Journalist Bob. But the truth shall set us free, and the truth is the Bulldawgs. I’ll now switch to DVD, as everyone seems to be asleep or somewhere else…

By Bob, journalist

August 8, 2006 02:09 AM | Link to this

Lew, journalist Bob is fearless. While my triangles are often obtuse, I always strive for the equilateral and if that’s not oblique, obtuse and convoluted, I don’t know what is. My comments are but instinctual responses triggered by what others post.

Back when a dollar was worth more than a dime, a hard working, $25 a week employee is proported to have complained about another employee to old John D … “You pay him $25,000 a year and all he ever does is sit in his fancy office and look out the window” to which The Man supposedly replied “When you can think the thoughts he thinks and see what he sees, I’ll pay you that too!” … somehow triggered by you, Lew. I always look for the “why” and am often times successful … but, in this case, I must admit defeat, I haven’t the faintest … maybe it’s just my way of saying hi … guess I’m still incomplete.

By Bob, journalist

August 8, 2006 02:10 AM | Link to this

Jimmy, you can make fun of my brine if you want to so do, though it may indeed be pickled … the modern guys all claim that soaking your fingers in pickle juice won’t help prevent blisters or expidite the healing of same … I figure they’re just using the wrong kind of pickle juice ‘cause it wasn’t that long ago that some pitchers swore by it. There ain’t nothing like good sour dill pickle juice to cure whatever ails you and I still take a sip or two on occassion. Folks that dismiss old home remedies as old wives’ tales are usually unmarried men.

By Bob, journalist

August 8, 2006 02:18 AM | Link to this

Grinch, narry a chess player ever learned much in victory … struggles destroy some, enable others to reach a higher level … Max beat Joe, fair and square … but it made a champion of the Brown Bomber.

I always want to see our team do well and I think we have the resident talent to win it all … and, I’ll be pulling for them to make the playoffs until they are eliminated or they overcome all obstacles and somehow win.

Regardless of how this season ends, the next one will give us a opportunity to see the true mettle of the players on this team. I’m not as confident as you but I’ll back your play.

Someone was kind enough to remind us that wanting things to happen doesn’t make them happen … but neither do outbursts of temper and boorish behavior. A wise old man once told me that doing things right isn’t worth much if you’re not doing the right things. Hopefully, the Braves will take some of that wisdom from this year’s experiences. My fear is that most will look for ways to excuse, justify or explain … rather than ways to change, and improve their play as a team. Regarding our young players … lets hope that they strive to become better team players and leave stardom in our hands.

I admit that I’m a wreck but I’d hate for folks to think that I was a dog … that wouldn’t be nice.

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 02:20 AM | Link to this

Grinch…U Know I will Be there, and keep up wit my boyz til the end, they just better go out like a man, instead of some suckas, like we have been lookin like lately over the last week…

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 02:29 AM | Link to this

OT…Shaun and Mariner

That same group who came up wit that best sports cities in the country list, must have been on some grey goose or something, They had the nerve to call Miami as number third best sports city in the country…WTF

I Lived In Boca Raton for a year, and down there the Dolphins are like a religion…The Marlins, Please, Braves, Yankees, and Red Sox fans outnumber marlins fans down there

And A-Lot of people are on the Miami Heat Bandwagon, Just because of Shaq and D-Wade

A-lot of people like Shaq, no matter what team he plays for…I guess thats why no one is on the Lakers Bandwagon anymore

By The Grinch

August 8, 2006 02:35 AM | Link to this

There ain’t gonna be no goin’ out! Has the team ever just ridden on one season? No! We talk of 14 division championships…have we ever just said “Forget it?” No! By god, this team will be something to be proud of soon, and if you’re real fans, now. Stand up and be counted, for what you are about to recieve…we are the dealers, we’ll give you everything you need…hail to the good times, for rock has got the right of way…etc. I’m too drunk to remember, but Y’all get the sentiment. For those about to rock…FIRE! We salute you…

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 02:39 AM | Link to this

Yea, Grinch I’m out too, Bout to hit up dat NCAA 07, while I enjoy a brew

Regardless of what happens, Go Braves!

I still got my Atlanta Braves tag on my car, and I’ll be damned if it comes off…becuz U got to be loyal to your roots…

Oh yea someone mentioned A. Jones will hit 40 Homers, I think thats only if Bobby lets him play during the last two weeks of the season, especially since the September call-ups get a shot

I’ve noticed that Bobby Cox’s managing Sucks during the final 2 weeks of september, The only exceptions I think are 2001 (When the Braves clinched on the nite they beat Florida 20-3) and in 1993 (The 103 win season where D. Justice hit those 2 homeruns on the final Sunday of the season…The same day where the Giants were devastated by Mike Piazza at Chivez Ravine)

Other than that I expect a sub .500 for september even though most of our schedule consists of games against sub .500 teams…

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 02:44 AM | Link to this

I feel your passion Grinch, but man I’f this is how we play against wild card teams, then were F-c-kud, especially against the phillies, they have played us tough over the last 2 years….

And BTW Chipper Get Ur a-s-s back in the lineup, If it was 95 Chipper would still be out there…He reminds me a little of Roger Dorn A-lot of people are comparing him to Mike Vick in terms of Team Leaders, not pulling their weight…

By The Grinch

August 8, 2006 03:08 AM | Link to this

I’m talkin’ about next year, my brotha…not this one, though it’s not all the way out of reach yet…

By Bob, journalist

August 8, 2006 03:20 AM | Link to this

Grinch, I’ll leave it with you and Tommy Hawk … our boys may be battered and beaten … but they’re young, talented and still learning the game … they have more heart than many who call themselves fans.

My last three posts to Lew, Jimmy, and you were written as one novel but I broke it into chapters for fear folks might need to take a break between chapters.

Something just triggered the thought of my old “foxhole shovel” … Lord knows why, but maybe it’s because the neighboorhood contains some folks with whom one would feel comfortable should the occassion arise … say goodnight Gracie.

goodnight Gracie

By The Grinch

August 8, 2006 03:27 AM | Link to this

Bob, anyone who hangs out here at night needs an industrial-sized shovel…sleep tight! Night to all, from me…and let it not be said that the Grinch gave up!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 8, 2006 07:44 AM | Link to this

I have metioned this before. For all the flaws this team has. And there are many. The only one that time and time again hinders them from winning is the pitching (both starting and relieving). Now, tonight is a stopper game. We have to take two of three. To do that we have to win tonight. Our “ace” is on the mound. Will Hudson build off of last Thursday’s outing or will it be more of the same crap? Well, if I were betting I wouldn’t put my money on him performing like he did agaist the Pirates (which by the way wasn’t that great but light years ahead of what he’s done during the last 2 months). I remember a time when the pitching remained consistent even if the offense went into a slump. This pitching staff couldn’t do that if their lives depended on it. Don’t discount the affect this pitching staff has on the psychi of the offense. The Braves made it a 7-4 game last night. All the bullpen had to do was hold it there and give the offense a fighting chance. But, as has been the case so many times this year they give up late inning runs that put the game out of reach. If the Braves don’t get ahead in the first inning or two, then you can almost put a mark in the “L” column.

By BravesFaninRockies

August 8, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this

VOR

Sorry to be late to the party; life intervenes.

RBI is a wonderful statistic, but it’s dependent on OBP and to a lesser extent, slugging percentage. Runners must be on base — and even better in scoring position, say, after hitting a double or triple — before they’re batted in (solo HR excepted).

The stat you may be looking for is runs scored. And yes, that’s a wonderful indicator of an individual player’s contribution to wins. It’s also pretty simple.

As a team, runs scored and runs allowed are one of the most reliable indicators of wins. Score more than you allow over the course of a season, and you win more than you lose. Sounds elementary, but it works. That’s more important than RISP, record in one-run games, etc. And this pattern tends to follow with so few exceptions that it’s downright bizarre when you have a team like Cleveland that has scored 30 more runs than it has allowed and is more than 15 games below .500.

Bill James came up with a formula for this about 30 years ago. I used to remember it. You could predict how well a team SHOULD play (w/l %) based on runs scored vs. runs allowed.

hat’s the stat you need, and given that the Braves have scored 580 and given up 564, they should be playing better.

Meaning? Since these things even out, they could get hot soon or their karma may not catch up with them until next year …

By GARY G.

August 8, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this

THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE. THE TED IS A PITCHERS PARK. ASIDE FROM SMOLTZ, THE BRAVES HAVE NONE !!!

By Savannah Guy

August 8, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

TEAR DOWN THAT WALL MR. TURNER (or get some pitching)

With only a handful of guys with the heart needed to overcome this seasons debacle, ever fewer clutch hitters and even fewer dependable pitchers…and a manager that was not built to cobble a team together with band-aids and chewing gum (per Felipe Alou and Jim Leland )…there is no need for frustration. If you are a baseball fan (or just a Braves fan), then relax, give up on the Braves getting to the post-season and enjoy the drama on the field. We will never know whether all of the injuries this year are a result of bad luck, poor physical conditioning, or whatever else you might speculate on. the kids are fun to watch, but it’s a lot like watching the 1989/90 Braves. Watching Smoltz, A. Jones and McCann is worth the cost of entry.

The mandate this off season, which starts at the end of September, is for all Braves to get in shape. Pitchers, this may mean also soaking those hands in brine. It worked for Glavine and many others. Just put a bowl of it beside your Lazy-Boy chairs and soak those digits while watching the playoffs this year.

Next year, I still say…clean house with Pitching, bring in some power or bring in those outfield walls at Turner.

By Steve in S. Ga

August 8, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Metsman: You sound like a loser who hasn’t “gotten any” in 15 years and now that some skank let you have some, you now think you’re a stud. Enjoy you brief moment in the sun…

By matches

August 8, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

Hate to say it, but 2006 is Done. In order to have a realistic shot at the WC we’d have to win, at minumum, 84-85 games. That would require going at least 33-18 the rest of the way. Sorry - just not gonna happen.

2007 can still be a good year, though. I agree we need to get a look at Prado at 2B, even if only 1-2 days a week. Perhaps move Baez (again) to a contender. Start to sort through the glut of outfielders, even if it means Andruw or Franceour sit every now and then. Keep running the young pitchers out there, even if they’re getting hit hard.

By Lew

August 8, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

Matches-I’m not sure what glut of outfielders we have that hasn’t been playing. Is there someone other than Langerhans, Diaz and Thorman? I’m not sure any of these are more than pinch hitters or late innings defensive help. I had high hopes for Langerhans, but he didn’t hit all of those doubles I figured he would. Diaz has proven to be a decent pinch hitter, but lacks defensive prowess. Thorman apparently has some power, but hasn’t overly impressed me otherwise. Also, he’s a first baseman. Not to be contentious, but who else did you have in mind? I’m not sure there are many more in the pipeline, ready to be called up.

By james

August 8, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

this is a bad baseball team…..we need to boycott the braves’ home games. thank god football is right around the corner…….. go dawgs……..the national league is really down. how can this team, as horrible as they are, are only five games out of making the playoffs. there’s nobody in the national league that can beat the new york mets. the mets would struggle to make the playoffs if they were in the american league.

By Margie G

August 8, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

As for losing more at home than on the road, I have an idea. Have the Braves give each of the season ticket holders an airline ticket to the opposing teams home park. Have the opposing team stay there and we go to them instead of them come here and beat us. It may cost the Braves some bucks but we might win more than facing teams at home.

By Lew

August 8, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

James-I’m not overly thrilled with the way the Braves are playing, either, but boycotting the Braves will do absolutely nothing to make them better. As a matter of fact, if the new owners (whoever they may be) see fan support dropping, do you think they will keep our payroll the same or even boost it? No man, the Braves need your support and that of all of their fans. We’ve had an incredible championship run. This is only one off year. We have the nucleus for a successful team next year and with JS and his creative personnel management, we will be better nerxt year. We won’t have Thomson, Reitsma, Remlinger, Jordan or Sosa. We will have to be better. Besides, with all of them leaving, it frees up almost $13 million. Good start. Margie G. Let’s just say that your scenario will never be implemented.

By krath

August 8, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

Bobby Cox on Ramirez last night:

“It’s unfortunate, because that’s the best I’ve seen him all year,” Cox said of Ramirez, who was charged with three runs, three walks and one hit — a two-run homer in the fourth by Ryan Howard. - per DOB

He said similar things about Reitsma the last year and a half.

I’m not a Cox hater believe me…. but Bobby …just shut the hell up! HoRam has been his normal inconsistent self the last half. Even in the games he hasn’t given up 5 runs they’ve been blasting multiple shots to the warning track! He’s dodged many bullets including games where he has left like 10 baserunners on.

There’s a time to rah rah and a time to call a spade a spade. I would love to hear Bobby say, “we’re just not very good right now but we’re going to work on some things to try to get things right and salvage some respect.”

When you’re playing at 90% efficiency and a positive guy like Cox is encouraging you… perhaps he can get you to 95%. But when you’re playing at 50% efficiency the rah rah stuff ain’t doing anything but give everyone a false sense of what the true capabilities of this team are.

To hear Cox and JS tell it, we’re only a couple of decent breaks away from being a World Series contending team.

If I were Liberty media and heard Cox and JS talk about the team I would think…..”Geez….these guys are set for next year. We should be pounding the world if we get everyone back healthy. They definitely don’t need any more payroll. In fact, these guys are great! We can probably cut payroll!”

We’re going to need some folks we have to step up AND we’re going to have to add some pieces to the puzzle during the winter (like pitching) or this team will still be a dog!

So to paraphrase an old saying….Bobby… if you can’t says something bad about someone….just don’t say anything!!! lol

Seriously…. this fan is in no mood for false hope and speeches on just how close we are or have been or about bad breaks.

As the great movie line goes…..”Bobby…don’t p**s down my back and tell me it’s raining!”

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

When you trade one of your best hitters and future stars (Betemit) you deserve to lose. Aside from McCann,LaRoche,Anruw (when not in a slump) and Chipper (when healthy) Betemit was the OFFENSE for the lackluster Braves.

I was just thinking back to the days of the late 80’s & early 90’s when you had LOYAL players that stayed with one team their whole careers instead of selling themselves for a few more dollars. Cal Ripken Jr,Tony Gwynn,Mike Schmidt,Kirby Puckett,and even John Smoltz,Chipper & Andruw Jones ,Jeff Bagwell & Craig Biggio come to mind. I remember Andruw being heavily courted by the Yankees & Angels when his last contract was up. But he took several million less a year to remain a Brave. Now they put him on waivers and want to trade him ? That’s gratitude for ya !

JS fixed the bullpen but now the starting piching is ugly. I never consider Oscar Villareal and Ken Ray part of the bullpen. I have no idea why they are on the team really. They average 2 to 4 runs per inning pitched allowed. Release them both now and go with a young gun from Richmond. They can’t do any worse really.

By matches

August 8, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

Lew, I was thinking of Kelly Johnson. Obviously he’s not available this season, but - assuming Andruw and Franceour will be sticking around - we need to settle on a LF from the other candidates. As it stands now we have this sort of bizarre three-way platoon going out there, and that will only get muddier when Johnson returns. ALL those guys need to be getting ABs so we can see who should stick and who should not.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

Matt Diaz needs to be in LF. He’s hitting over .300 right now but Bobby won’t start him every day. Diaz would hit lefties too if given a chance.

By Lew

August 8, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

Matches-Sorry man, I forgot completely about KJ. That’s what happens when they are under the radar, I suppose. I’m not sure what kind of shape he’ll be in next year. The Braves did the same with him as Hampton and Reitsma. They waited until they did the surgery. Last year, if they had bitten the bullet and repaired Hampton 6 months earlier, he would damn near be ready to return now. Johnson was told to wait and when the arm didn’t get better, then they put him under the knife. The ligament replacement surgery is so prevelant now, and the results are usually good, that I wonder why they wait. Just do it and get the players in rehab. Krath-Dude, I don’t disagree about the overt optimism, but Time Warner ain’t gonna cough up any more bucks no matter what BC says. RobDawg-Bate A MEAT is gone, and he isn’t coming back. Apparently the Braves never included him in future plans, so maybe he really did have a down side. I remember earlier in the season when BC said he was going to use him regularly to fill in at 2nd 3rd and short. He then played one game and was benched again. I swear something happened. We probably will never know what, but stop and think about it.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

The Braves will probably do Diaz like they did Betemit. He hits .300 when he plays but they think he’s not good enough to start and trade him. He goes on to be a starter and had great success (Betemit in LA). Some team will get Diaz and he will become a .300 30 100 guy.

By Rodger

August 8, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

Diaz doesn’t start against lefties the same reason LaRoche didn’t-Bobby is real big on the lefty/righty thing (unless its Leibrandt vs Puckett)

By Lew

August 8, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

RobDawg, I think Diaz liabilty as a defensive outfielder has led to his lack of play. Right or wrong, the Braves seem to pigeonhole their players as to their team roles. It happened with BateAMeat and it is happening with Diaz, too. He has made some really bonehead plays in left, including missing easy fly balls. Maybe he lost his contact lens.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Lew, Betemit probably told Cox what I would have told him “You play me and I hit .330 and then you put Marcus Giles back in at 2B hitting .230…” Betemit might have even said “If I can’t start here, trade me.” Its the Braves loss I can assure you.

By Rodger

August 8, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

robdawg-Betemits been in LA 10 days-a little soon to be proclaiming great sucess!

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

Rodger, that Cox logic is stupid. He did the same thing with Ryan Klesko and Klesko was traded and hit .300 against lefties for the Padres. Cox mismanages his talent IMO. Mark DeRosa,Ryan Klesko,and Jason Marquis are proof and Betemit & Diaz will be soon.

By Voice of Reason

August 8, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Krath - Do you really believe that the things BC says in front of a camera or notepad are the same things he says behind the clubhouse doors? Simply put, he doesn’t air the team’s dirty laundry outside of the clubhouse, and that’s the way it should be. His “positivity” is so over the top that it should be plain to everybody. (Honestly, he’s not Mr. Magoo…) The things that are done and said behind the scenes have a far greater impact on the players than the things BC says to a reporter or a writer. I know, you’re thinking that our esteemed beat writer deluxe, DOB, would probably see some of these things and report on them; but that would be breaking a clubhouse trust and the quickest way to be shut out on ALL clubhouse info. Why do you all just love to pick at BC like a scab on your knee?

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

Rodger, Betemit is doing the same thing in LA every day that he did here as a platoon player, hit .300

Lew, I’d rather have Diaz that hits .300 with 10 errors than Lamngerhans that hits .240 with 1 error.

By Lew

August 8, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

RobDawg-You could be right. I surely don’t know. How about Marcus back in the two spot? It may, indeed, be psychological, but he is hitting like a madman all of a sudden. He’s pulled his average up nearly 40 points, which is damn hard this time of the season, with so many at bats. If I have any complaint with BC, it is that he stays with his experiments way too long. That may be what makes him a manager the players love to play for, but I would pull pitchers quicker and I would have had Edgar batting leadoff somewhere around May, instead of July and on;y them because of Chipper’s injury. On the other hand, I would have pulled KJ last year way before he won his player of the week award. Who knows? They sure don’t pay us the big bucks to make the decisions, do they?

By Chica

August 8, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the Braves will get to the playoffs; we’ll be lucky if they finish with a .500 record. But maybe this is the best thing for the organization. This season has exposed a lot of their weaknesses, both in the big club and in the minors - lack of pitching. Hopefully, this season will inspire JS to be more aggressive in his search for starters, and maybe it will light a fire under ol’ Bobby and the veterans who remain on the team next season.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

It appears that any player with FIRE in their gut is traded. Klesko,Marquis,J.D. Drew,Sheffield,DeRosa,Betemit,and others play with intensity. They all have moved on to teams known for playing with FIRE. LA,Yankees,Cardinals,& Rangers. Bobby laid back style has cost the team in the post season EVERY year. Cox : “Come on Chippy,oh well you’ll get em next time you only K’d with the bases loaded and two out down by 2 runs.” Pat on the butt and a smile… We need a manager with FIRE !

By Lew

August 8, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

RobDawg-Check out what Diaz batting stats would be if you took out the Marlins games. He sure wouldn’t be batting .300. A large percentage of those numbers came against the Marlins early in the year before the Fish got their act together. I’m not sold on Diaz. I wish Ryan had hit more this year and thought he would. However, the guy has an incredible glove and saves a lot of runs, even if he is an average hitter. Maybe he is not the optimal solution, but I really think Diaz is better pinch hitting. I think left field will eventually be patrolled by someone not even on the radar now.

By Rodger

August 8, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Ya know-I haven’t pitched since 30 years ago in Pony league, but I couldn’t do much worse than the BP pitchers we’ve been throwing out. Whats the minimum salary now?

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

I realize Drew & Sheffield signed as free agents with other teams but the point is still players with FIRE or intensity don’t stick around and become WINNERS elsewhere.

By Chica

August 8, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

I’m afraid too much fire would give Bobby a heart attack.

Kidding. But seriously, in the few years I’ve lived in ATL and been a Braves fan, I’ve wondered what things would be like with a younger, more aggressive guy managing the team. But I can’t really think of anybody out there who’d be a good replacement. Any suggestions? What managers are even available?

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

Lew, Look at Manny Ramirez in Boston. Diaz runs circles around him defensively. If you hit .340 40 120 it really doesn’t matter if you make some errors. It takes walks and hits to go along with those errors to score runs which may or may not come to fruition.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

Rodger, you can’t do worse than Villareal & Ray do trust me…I’m glad they finally got a proven closer in Wickman. But now they can’t get him the ball in the 9th with a lead…

By Rodger

August 8, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

It appears that any player with FIRE in their gut is traded. Klesko,Marquis,J.D. Drew,Sheffield,DeRosa,Betemit,and others play with intensity

Marquis had about 1 good outing in 4 while here (I know-we’d love that now), DeRo was hitting about .230 when he played regularly, Drew & Shef just priced themselves away. What about Jordan? Can’t get much more fire-wait, he just wasn’t getting it done? Rocker? Went off his. I’d love more intensity from some of these guys, but there’s more to it than that.

BTW-I was tongue in cheek about the BC management style.

By Mets Stink

August 8, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

No matter what happens, fans aren’t going to be happy with the manager when the team doesn’t win. Look at Jack McKeon with the Marlins. He won a world championship in his first year, then you heard all kinds of rumors the next year about him being fired when the Marlins didn’t play well. Larry Bowa is another good example of a manager with fire. People love it at first, then it begins to wear thin and eventually the players stop performing for their manager. Heck, Joe Torre isn’t a manager with fire, but there have been questions about his job status the last several years because the Yanks havent won the world series. Be happy with what you’ve got in BC. He’s one of the best ever and the only one to lead his team to 14 consecutive division titles. Yes, they’ve only won one world series, but I’d rather have one and 14 division titles than no championships and being perennial cellar dwellers like we were in the late 80’s.

By sam galloway

August 8, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

the braves have beomce the royals cheap cheap cheap. they have 7 injured pitchers -partly because they won’t spend any money and sign everynes cast offs, retreads and damaged goods. Well leo could make a silk purse out of these sows ears but mcdowell can’t. and why after changing pitching coaches do the braves suddenly have a whole staff on IR. coincidence? Also the braves hit some bombs but stike out 10 times a game. heck they are hitting 270 as a team which must be about 450 when they make contact. pendelton has also done a very poor job. time to cleanhouse on the coahcing and ownerhsip staff. as for john s - while all those nl east titles are great he has fialed time and time again to make the big move and get that shut down closer. the braves are a good closer away from 3 or 4 more series titles!

By MGL

August 8, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

robdawg06 - Betemit Aug batting AVG .179 OBP .258. Not exactly winner stats.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

I would try to get a guy like Jeff Blauser or maybe even Harold Reynolds (former Mariners 2B & ESPN analyst). Those scrappy former infielders seem to make good managers. Look at Jim Leyland, he demands intensity and took over the Tigers and truned them into winners the first year !

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

I won’t argue you stats MGL but every time I look at the box scores Betemit is 2 for 3. Let’s see how he does the remainder of the season and next year as a starter,ok ?

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

I agree Sam. They get those sorry rejects from teams that need pitching real bad themselves. Then they try to “recapture lightning in a bottle” which normally fails (Kolb,Reitsma,Remlinger,Ray,Villareal,Thomson,etc. are proof). Its almost comical to have two $16 million dollar hitters and five $200 thousand dollar relievers…

By Chica

August 8, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

But Harold Reynolds seems so softspoken on Baseball Tonight. I don’t know much about his playing days or his intensity level, though….

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Derosa hit .300 then was named the 2B but got hurt. Then he hit about .230 as a bench player before being traded. As for Marquis, they tried changing his mechanics and he and Mazzonne even had words about it. He was traded and returned to his own mechanics and will probably be a 20 game winner this year. Rocker doesn’t count. He wasn’t intense he was insane.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

I’ll take you as the new manager Chice. Bobby needs to retire.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

TYPO city ! I meant Chica. Sorry.

By Chica

August 8, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

The only thing I could guarantee you as a manager is that all of the players would be hot. ;-)

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

Hey Mets Stink, Any person breathing could have managed a team with Smoltz,Glavine,Maddux,& Avery as starters in their prime and a core of Chipper,Andruw,McGriff,and Justice all hot with the bat. Managing really comes down to the post season. Its when every move counts. And Bobby has made more bad moves than any manager : Liebrandt-Puckett,Lonnie Smith not waived home,Reitsma-Beltran,Wohlers left in,Devine-Astros.

By matches

August 8, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

rob, Derosa played 3B every day for the first 2-3 months of the 2004 season and stunk it up.

By GM R

August 8, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

It seems to me that Turner Field is a pitchers ballpark and that exposes the major flaw in the 2006 Braves. I have seen 7 home games (all losses) and in each one several Braves hit warning track balls that may well have been HRs on the road. I haven’t analyzed the stats but I get the sense that in many of the wins on the road the Braves have given up at least 4 runs indicating that in a hitters ballpark the pitching is still weak but the Braves bats are able to negate the pitching problems. The thing that puzzles me is this - why make the trades for bullpen help at this point in the season when the starting rotation is so poor? The time to get BW was at the start of the year - it might have halved the 20 blown saves and put the Braves firmly in front of the wild card race. But as the season has evolved we see Hudson fall well below expectations, Ramirez inconsistent, Sosa implode, Thompson injured - if you can’t get around that little lot why fix the bullpen? It only makes sense if you plan to keep BW for at least a couple of years.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

Hey Mets Stink, Any person breathing could have managed a team with Smoltz,Glavine,Maddux,& Avery as starters in their prime and a core of Chipper,Andruw,McGriff,and Justice all hot with the bat. Managing really comes down to the post season. Its when every move counts. And Bobby has made more bad moves than any manager : Liebrandt-Puckett,Lonnie Smith not waived home,Reitsma-Beltran,Wohlers left in,Devine-Astros.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

RobDawg, have you been to sleep, or did you go straight from the nightclub to the computer keyboard? Because I hope some of the things you’ve typed in the past couple hours weren’t done sober.

For example: You’ve stated that Betemit was THE OFFENSE for the Braves (other than Chipper, Andruw when not slumping, McCann and LaRoche.

Really? So Betemit had more of an impact on the Braves’ offense this season than, say, All-Star SS Edgar Renteria, who’s hit .313 with 11 homers, 45 RBIs and a .387 OBP? More of an impact than Jeff Francoeur, who has 21 homers and 78 RBIs? Please explain, particularly the part about him being a bigger part of the offense than Renteria.

You stated that Matt Diaz will be a .300-30-100 guy for another team someday. Really? So the Royals, Devil Rays and Braves just are clueless in terms of evaluating every-day lineup material then, not as astute as you? Do me a favor, please: When Diaz is a .300-30-100 guy, please e-mail me and tell me what an idiot I was for stating today that that will happen when hell freezes over.

Oh, and I just about fell out of my chair when you became the first in recorded history to describe J.D. Drew as a player with “fire” in the belly. J.D. _ great guy, great natural talent, terrific natural power. But “fire” in the belly?

If J.D. had more “fire in the belly,” to go with his tremendous talent, the consensus among baseball people has always been that he’d be the closest thing we have to Mickey Mantle. Fire is the one thing J.D. lacks, my friend.

By sam galloway

August 8, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

robdog - and when they do take a scrap heap pitcher and rehab him he has 1 good year with the braves and bolts for a contact elsewhere. so much for loyalty. damn you are a nearly out of work pitcher , someone gives you a job and resurrects your career and so you bolt for an extra thousand or tow. i can’t remember the names but there have been several. i gotta think if the braves had paid leo the pitching would be better. mcdowell and pendelton need to go. andruw and francour and the 1B larouche still swing wildly at pithces 2 feet off the plate. i mean it is one thing to swing at a pitch 3 inches off the plate and anotehr to swing at one 2 feet off. and emeo to braves hitters if the pitch is coming in near the knees and has a side spin it is a curve in the dirt - don’t swing. now a splitter is harder to recognize but the braves hitters take more wild swings than any team i see. i guess it is the swing hard in case you hit it approach. renterina is the only decent situational hitter they have.

By Mets Stink

August 8, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

Most players don’t play for a manager they don’t like. Bobby Abreu is just one example. He’s tearing it up in New York (new environment, new manager and he’s the Abreu of old). Andruw loves BC, and took less money to sign his current contract. Would he have done that if BC wasn’t here?

RobDawg, you question all those moves that didn’t work out, but there are countless others that Bobby made that did work. We tend to only remember the bad ones.

By Rodger

August 8, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

sam, but for a spell check, that was a great post! couldn’t agree more!

By The GM

August 8, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Anyone who has the word “dawg” in their name is sure to only blurt out stupidity!

McDowell’s stay in Atlanta will be short lived I believe. Sure it’s not all his fault, but someone will have to go this year when the Braves end up 10 games under .500 for the season.

By TennesseePaul

August 8, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Man is this pitching awful. This is a fall from grace for the Braves. A team that built an amazing winning streak on pitching has fallen due to a lack of pitching.

Technically, they aren’t out. But even this all-to-optimistic fan is starting to seriously doubt. I’ve seen too much terrible pitching. Horrible pitching. We score so many blasted runs it’s amazing. But the pitchers seem to view that has a reason not to hunker down and aim for a shutout. Only two games this whole season where we’ve shut out the opponent. The last one coming on May 1st.

I wanna believe we can still make it. But it will require about a 20 game win streak followed by 2 out of 3 the rest of the way. With this pitching, I don’t see that happening.

Next Year. I’m don’t know if we should go off and sign Zito or Schmidt. Schmidt has too much of an injury history, and only has 3 good seasons in his 12 year career. If it’s his “stuff” that everyone likes, I’m still not buying it. Sosa had “stuff”. Devine had “stuff”. Hudson had “stuff”. None of that stuff has paid off. I’d rather have a pitcher that knows how to pitch. How to get an out when he doesn’t have his “stuff”. Zito will probably be a Met. And, that might not be a bad thing. Mulder has been blah with the Cards. Hudson with the Braves. If trends continue, so will Zito with his new team. And I don’t think I’d be dissapointed with Zito being average to awful and taking up a massive portion of the Met payroll. It’d be like the Yankees and Kevin Brown all over again.
Besides, we have Hampton returning. Next year we will have Hampton, James, Davies, Ramirez, Smoltz and Hudson returning. Assuming no trades. If we add a pitcher via trade or Free Agency, I hope it is a healthy workhorse sumbitch who knows how to pitch without his “stuff”.

The offense is incredible. It could be tinkered with a little. Maybe add some speed at second or LF. A little pop at the other spot. With LaRoche proving to be a viable every day guy, we will now also have an extra spot on the bench for a productive player.

By Antonio McNugget

August 8, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

Rodger you have got to be kidding.

JD Drew was the most compalcent player on the team Sheffield only had 3 hits in 2 postseason series Mark Derosa was absolutely awful.

Define fire in your belly becasue i think you are reffering to the opposite of that using the above guys as examples.

By midnite

August 8, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

John Burkett was one who bolted for a few extra bucks to Boston. As for Leo, I really don’t think it was money. When a man gets older he may want to be closer to home or into more of his comfort zone. As for J.D. Drew who was on the DL every year of his career, I got the feeling he was more interested in the money than playing. He did have his best year ever in 2004 for the Braves. There have been a lot mediocre players who came here and played above their normal level and went else where and flopped. Damien Moss, Russ Ortiz and Denny Neagle are a few which come to mind.

By Bo

August 8, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Braves are just clueless in terms of evaluating everyday line-up material? Well, what about Gary Matthews Jr? Making plays in the field as good or better than AJ-BA 318,56 rbi,& 11hrs. and the Braves cut him in Spring training and keep Jordan? I didn’t say he was better over all player than AJ but why couldn’t they see his talent if they are so good at evaluating talent? THE BRAVES Have LOST 9 OUT OF 11 to PHILS, are they that much better than Braves after trading 3 top player? GO BRAVES.

By midnite

August 8, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Who wants to take a chance on Zito or Schmidt? The last thing we need to add is another huge contract. You have to admire JS for having some sense of “financial responsibility”. We are not in the same in the same financial league with the Yanks, Mets, and Bosox anymore. I would rather take a chance on a younger hurler or two. Hudson is a prime example of not getting “bang for the buck”. I’ll say this again $80M should field a strong team with the money not tied up in long term contracts to a handful of players. In my opinion JS has done his job well with what hes had to work with since the payroll purge began a few years ago.

By Braves20

August 8, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Bo - In the Braves defense, the spring that Matthews spent with the Braves, he was awful. Living in Florida and seeing many of the spring games, I don’t know how anybody could have forseen the type of year he’s having this year based on that spring.

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Did Anyone Go to the game last nite, It looked like Friends and Family only nite at the Ted on TV Last nite, Guess that says something about how the team is playing…

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

No Zito, No Schmid, Nuff said…If Schuerholtz would hav went out and got a closer and cut Reeksma there wouldn’t be any of this talk rite now….

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

In my last post I was refferring to the Offseason, instead of the trade deadline…\

D.O.B. Ur right about J.D. Screw, 4 all the Hype, I think he has been the biggest Bust over the last 10 years…

Fire in the belly my a-s-s, He’s worst than LaRoche in terms of showing emotion on the field…

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

Oh, and I forgot to send an affirmative to Voice of Reason on your 11:16 a.m. post. You are exactly right about clubhouse stuff, half or more of which I could never report, but file away to use as background for later stories, etc.

I went back and read some posts here from last night. Amazing how some of you wants to dimiss the home-road disparity by just tossing out 20 games at home in June, or a road trip in July, etc. People, that’s the WHOLE POINT. Over the course of 162 games, this stuff is supposed to even out. The Braves have NEVER had such an offensive home-road disparity at Turner Field. I just spent some time looking back at stats from every season here, and most years the home-run numbers were almost identical home and away, and the Braves had terrific home records in three of the previous five seasons before this one.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

Meant to type “some of you want” not “wants.”

T’hawkin, I’ve never heard anyone in the clubhouse speak of J.D. and LaRoche in the same manner. LaRoche NEVER asks out of the lineup, like yesterday, when he played with a nasty bruise and swelling above his wrist from getting hit the other day. Just wrapped it up and played. J.D. would have missed 2-3 games.

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

Oh yea D.O.B., Hudson, better have his A game tonight, otherwise the other bloggers, myself included, are gonna get in his a-s-s…

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

My bad D.O.B. I was comparing the two in terms of showing some excitement or frustration on the field…

By Rich

August 8, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

I have been a Braves fan since the days when they-and Michael Jackson-wore a glove for no apparent reason. I have few answers for the questions/accusations/judgemental comments from those who may have never played baseball at any level. For those who choose to adopt a rational view of the world (as opposed to the “Chicken Little” view), I remind you that injuries play an important role in the success or failure of a sports team. Chipper has been injured twice this year and, I suspect, most of the other players are hurting somewhere. That is a reason for underperformance. What is not, as John Smoltz is reported to have said, is losing the desire to perform well; losing your focus. If that is the reason for the Braves recent fall, then the veterans need to have one of those “closed” sessions. The other issue that is interesting is the fact that the Braves are merely a line item in the Time Warner budget. The capability to go after players who can help-like Hernandez-may not be practical with the budget they have been given (unlkike what the Yankees can do with Steinbrenner’s money). Remember, too, that the Braves have one of the best, if not the best, farm system in the majors. It is not pollyanna to believe that the days of the last 14 years will come again.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

While it’s unfair to point to one person as the scapegoat for this disappointing season, you’d be hard-pressed to find a bigger disappointment than Hudson, considering all that was expected from him.

I mean, sure, Reitsma was a disaster. But no one really expected him to be a dominant closer, did they? And he did just have surgery, in his defense.

By Tomahawkin

August 8, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

Lucky, to find a scapegoat, We could have a same scenario like the Cubs did in 2004, when Steve Stone called out Dusty Baker, The way TBS Is going, they’ll probably cut one or two of the commentators

Does anyone else see the fall of the Braves coinciding with the fall of TBS, From Becoming The Braves Station to Total B.S.

By Bo

August 8, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Thanks Brave 20 for your answer. I thought DOB would have a spin on it.

By Rodger

August 8, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

Good call Tomahakin-almost like Knockahoma’s teepee?

Bring back Skip, Pete, & Don to more games one way or another.

By midnite

August 8, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

This has been a year of bizarre extremes for the Braves. The June swoon 3-20 or whatever it was. The incredible offensive barrage of 6 straight games with double figures in runs scored, and all of those dingers in July. We need a couple of starters to step up and maybe we could reel off that 33-18 run we need to get that wild card. As bad as I hate to say it we need to pull for the Mets except, of course, when we play them.

By Chop Chop

August 8, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Hudson has obviously been the biggest disappointment this year. As far as Reitsma goes, you can defend the guy by pointing out the fact that he had surgery, but he allegedly was pitching with that numbness in his arm for over a year and didn’t tell anyone about it. It’s hard to defend a pitcher that won’t admit that he’s hurt, especially when he is horribly ineffective. I still can’t figure out why Reitsma didn’t say anything about it.

By Head Coach

August 8, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

David , yes Hudson has been a dissapointment. Reitsma was a disaster and no , there is not any excuse in the book for his inexplicable failure to disclose he had numbness in his fingers and couldnt feel the ball since spring training. At least we have finally seen the last of him. The last time the Braves were at .500 or better was June 4th , two months ago. Only 51 more games of futility left till we can say goodbye to this disaster of a season.

By Chica

August 8, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Because Reitsma knew that by ‘fessing up about the injury, he’d get pulled from the rotation and be branded a failure. A brand, which has pretty much been confirmed by those posting on this blog. Besides, he probably didn’t want the club to think he was using the injury as an excuse for his poor performance. At any rate, I won’t be sad to see him go. He was Kolb 2.0.

By Lew

August 8, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Bo-You have to realize this about Mathews, Jr-He’s been in the bigs for about ten years now and this is the first time he’s ever shown anything other than mediocrity. The other six or so teams he played for didn’t think much of his potential either. You know, these things are going to happen sometimes. Look at DeRosa-someone earlier was saying we were fools for letting him get away. Well, he was given the chance to start and his play was terrible. The way he looked, there was no indication he would become a good everyday player. How many years ago was that? Now he’s finally having a good season and all of a sudden we should have kept him. Now people are all upset about Betemit leaving. Personnel decisions are made all of the time. Some work well and others not so well. Scheurholz’s moves work better than most, most of the time.

By BO

August 8, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Thanks Lew I get your point and agree. I like JS and know he will rebuild this team. Betemit trade I also agreed with. GO BRAVES

By NLCHAMPS

August 8, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

It’s nice to go through the blog and read the humility of a fan base that now knows their team didn’t invent the game. No more fans beating their chest and doing their best to degrade other teams and their fan base. Reality has set in and now it’s the braves that’s are a shi#@&%tty team. Humbling isn’t it

By Rodger

August 8, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

It is humbling to realize the Braves are as bad as the Mets have been for over a decade and a half. Must suck to realize if you cant vote, you’ve never seen the Mets win!

By TennesseePaul

August 8, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

Kolb. He certainly set a standard in Braves pitching history. He’ll be the Mendoza of Braves pitching for a long, long time.

Reitsma not telling anyone he was hurt makes me think he wasn’t hurt all that bad. I think the surgery was done simply to remove him from the rest of the season. But it was probably not necessary for what ever he claims is ailing him.
As for JD Drew. He only showed up to play when his contract was on the line. We’ll see if his kid brother is the same. I hope not. I hate seeing ball players blauser. It’s depressing.

By Chica

August 8, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

and now it’s the braves that’s are a shi#@&%tty team. Humbling isn’t it

Ahhh, spoken like a true Mets fan. Enjoy your moment of greatness. It won’t last long if you guys make it to the World Series and have to go up against a superior AL team.

BTW, I grew up a sports fan in Ohio (Browns, Cavs, Indians, etc.), so I’m used to losing teams.

By Lew

August 8, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

I know everyone’s upset with the way things have gone this year. I am, too. I never thought a month like June was not possible. I, like all of us, have had my thoughts rearranged. I’m very optimistic for next year, though. A major problem this year was injuries to the pitching staff and several key players (well, Chipper, anyway). I think a major part of the problem was that stupid WBC. It took players out of their normal spring context and took them away from prparing for fundamentals and working with their teammmates. Nothing was normal and I’m certain it had an effect on the conditioning. I think it was the entire reason Francoeur got off to such a horrendous start. This will not be the case this coming spring. Hampton will be back and he is such a competitor, I think he will come back strong. Also, he will be 1 1/2 years from his surgery instead of the normal 12 months. Tis should help considerably. Davies will be back. The same with Foster and Boyer. Reitsma, Sosa, Thomson, etc. will be gone at the savings of about $13 million. This is a good start on resinging Baez and maybe Wickman. If Giles is moved, another $5 opens up to address the bench and whatever else it is judged to be a need. I also expect JS to pull of another deal like the one for Renteria, which was as masterful a trade as I’ve ever seen.

By Carolina Lady

August 8, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

Just a thought:
The Braves have been the Champions of their Division for 14 straight years. Yet, of all the teams that finished below them for all those years, I stand to be corrected but I don’t recall ever seeing a spiteful post from any other fans except from those identifying themselves with the NY Mets. Interesting.

By Lew

August 8, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

I meant $5 million if Giles is traded.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Bo, my spin is the same as Braves 20’s. Matthews just was not that impressive that spring. No one howled when he was dropped from the spring roster. There was absolutely no indication that he’d become the player he is now.

For that matter, there was little to suggest DeRo would develop into the player he is now, given how he fell on his face when given a chance to play 3B every day. Everybody in Atlanta loved DeRo, including Bobby and the staff. But he just didn’t perform well enough to warrant the raise he would’ve received.

I JUST POSTED A NEW BLOG

By NLCHAMPS

August 8, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Rodger is the kind of braves fan that makes this season so special. I hope everytime you look at the standings it bothers you so much to see the Mets in first place it gives you diarrhea.

By Rodger

August 8, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

Neat term TennesseePaul - bluausering!

By Bob, journalist

August 8, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

This and that …

I think that JD Drew is one of the most gifted players to ever don an Atlanta Braves uniform but even his jaded “entry/non-entry” into the proffessional arena may have foretold his attitude … seemed like when things didn’t go his way, he just took his ball and went home.

Lew, your “lost contact” comment was in jest but I’ve wondered on more than one occassion if perhaps more might be done in treating his depth perception problem … a set of contacts obviously helped but that’s only scratching the surface and may not be enough … on the other hand, scratched contacts may be worse than none at all.

Can’t say that I agree with the notion that if you can hit, “it really doesn’t matter if you make some errors” … it matters.

Amen, Reasonable Voice!

Krath, what old saying is “if you can’t says something bad about someone … just don’t say anything” paraphrasing?

By Rodger

August 8, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Yes, NLCHAMPS (and by the way, you may want to hold off using that term just yet-I think it still applies to the ‘stros). The Mets give me diarrhea-even though at this point, I can admit they’re the best team in the league.

By krath

August 8, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Lew, I know that payroll isn’t going to increase, I don’t think I even mentioned that as an option. But if you misunderstood what I was saying, I should have been more clear. Payroll isn’t increasing which is pretty much a given and it could possibly decrease I suppose. I just think the Braves are going to have to be realistic as to who they pay and how far they are willing to go to retain certain players after contracts expire.

Voice of Reason, I hear what you’re saying about what goes on behind closed doors. I don’t really expect DOB to report on that because if he did, he would probably not have the access he has for long. But if you missed it, let me repost this section, I wrote:

I would love to hear Bobby say, “we’re just not very good right now but we’re going to work on some things to try to get things right and salvage some respect.”

That isn’t over the top. That isn’t being overly critical of individual players. It states a fact that everyone should realize and it isn’t shamefull. The fact is the Braves should be striving for respectibility not the East or the Wildcard. You have to be respectible before you should be shooting for playoff spots. I think it’s the old gotta walk before you run. Right now this team can’t even walk much less run.

I don’t think Bobby needs to throw anyone under the bus in the press, but I just get tired of him trying to put a positive spin on everything.

Ahh Bob. Sorry my attempt at humor missed by stating that I was paraphrasing an old saying. In fact, I twisted the “old saying” completely. The saying I grew up with was, “if you can’t say something good about someone, just don’t say anything.”

By Doug Morgan

August 8, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

We need to be as brutal and as honest as Yankee and Red Sox fans. You don’t do the job and they boo you whether you are Manny Ramirez or Alex Rodriguez, it doesn’t make any difference. Maybe it will make them play harder. But who are we kidding? Our season ended a long time ago. But we can still show up to the park and let them know how we expect them to play next year by booing their performance this year. I’m not a big fan of booing but they leave us no choice.

Braves fan

By Ralph

August 8, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

The Vets on the braves have not play long enough this year to help the team let along the rookies, they are always hurt for one reason or another. Hardly a week goes by when another one goes on the disable list. The rookies on the Braves team have being in the majors long enough to know that winning is important, that they should develop they’re own positive attitude towards the game. If they want to stay in the big league they shouldn’t ride on the coat tail of any the vet’s on the team specialty if they want to stay with the Braves. In all the years that I watch baseball minor or professional baseball, I have never seen a team as predicable as the Atlanta Braves, with a determination to lose close games and a reckless and destructive approach toward the game. The way a team plays to some degree reflect the type of manager they have. There should be a section on the box score call “Manager Error” everything is blame on the players, but how many of the errors players make are because the managers orders it. In that case this year Bobby is not doing every good as a manager, and it may be time for him to change his outlook toward the way he manages the game. From the beginning of the year the Brave as everybody knows have been playing sloppy, shabby baseball if they were 4 runs behind the defeated attitude would kick in and of course lost another. They make every excuse in the world except one that they have no desired to win, or maybe they forgot how to win. Not only are the Braves not catching anyone, But they will have to fight hard to stay out of last place. People I talk to tell me they use to enjoy watching the Braves play, but this year all they have is pity for them and the whole organization.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

DOB, did you watch Matt Diaz tonight ? You are the one who is drunk berating Hudson and he pitches 7 scoreless innings. Can I have your job ? I think I would be much better at it…

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

J.D. Drew does play with fire until the laid back Braves players & manager got him into their rut. I know J.D. personally as he grew up about 50 miles from where I live. All the Drew boys were very intense and still are. They are winners.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

DOB, you shouldn’t judge people either. I haven’t been to a bar since I was 21 years-old and I’m 36 now. Just like in most of your Braves posts, you are wrong again. Can we get Curtright to post something worthwhile please ?

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this

Any person that has watched the Braves for the last 5 years will tell you that they’ve lacked intensity or “fire” as I like to call it. No emotions other than a few from Smoltz. The trend has been win the division by August and coast into the post season and get drilled by the “hot” and “intense” teams like the Astros,Cardinals,and Marlins. That’s up until this year. Now they are trying to win a wild card berth and are forced to play hard until the end of regular season or bow out.

By robdawg06

August 8, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

I’ll call you Disappearing Dave. Where’d ya go ?

By Art

August 9, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Well after today’s horrible display of pitching that gave the Phils 8 runs maybe it is time to drop Tyler Yates and Chad Paronto and bring up Matt Wright, Anthony Lerew and Kevin Barry with one of the 3 taking Horacio Ramirez place. The Braves cannot do any worse and with that pitching it does not look good for the final 50 or so games of the year.