Braves

By Brent

August 1, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

No reason to quit now. When we were 4 1/2 back we were excited. Why quit at 6 1/2? No reason.

Nonetheless, do we have any reason to believe that the starting pitching will improve?

I’m going to the game on Saturday, but Shiell is pitching. Hopefully, the bats will have re-awakened by then.

Go Braves!

By Ron Roberts

August 1, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

It might be too little, too late…

…that being said, having two Smoltz starts in that six-game swing is big. But my GOSH, Tim Hudson has to get it right and Horacio has shown spurts of brilliance interrupted with the occasional dud (last Friday). Here’s hoping he and Chuck James forget last weekend.

On paper, this rotation, at its peak performance, has the capability of reeling off a nice streak of wins, especially when ya start off against the Pirates.

But I overestimated us (or underestimated our opposition) against the likes of the Marlins, before, so who knows.

Here’s what I do know… minus Chipper Jones, Bobby Cox has to put together a lineup more like last seasons squad, with a contact hitting fast base runner (Aybar), then Giles, Renteria (who hits for average with some power, like Chipper), Andruw, LaRoche, McCann, Francoeur, (left fielder) and pitcher. If folks just pull their weight, they’ll enjoy the rarified air of Cincinatti, offense-wise.

This roadtrip will either prolong the season or end it for us, though.

By Ron Roberts

August 1, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

Hey Brent, Braves website has “TBA” as their starter for Saturday right now. But hey, he did well Sunday in spot relief, so I reckon Sheill wouldn’t be all that bad.

By BIFF POCAROBA

August 1, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

what happens if they get hot? what happens if they get to the playoffs? then they will have to play a good team and get killed. they should have traded wickman and daez yesterday. they could have gotten something for those guys.

By Torre!Torre!Torre!

August 1, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

58 games left. Braves must go 33-25 over that span just to finish .500. That’s a tall enough order with their train wreck of a starting staff. And it won’t nearly win the wild card.

88 wins could give the Braves a realistic chance at a wild card, but that would require them to go 40-18, a level of sustained excellence they haven’t come close to approaching all year.

I think we’d better face facts. Braves have one of the worst records in the National League because — hey — they’re one of the worst teams in the National League.

Having an October off for a change might be kind of relaxing.

By Calvin

August 1, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

I think the team is to inconsistent to make a serious run at the wildcard. I think if they can be more consistent with all facets of the game, including starting pitching, then maybe, just maybe they can make a run for the Reds.

By Brent

August 1, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

Ron,

Thanks for the heads-up. Hopefully, someone else will be in there.
…

33-25 just to reach .500. Wow. Time is running out.

Go Braves!

By KC

August 1, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Ron Roberts: Good post!

HoRam has shown flashes of brilliance. He’s been hard to figure, because he’s eiter been completely brilliant or totally awful every time out. There has been no in between.

The good news is that 8 out 11 times (since his return from the DL in May) he’s been brilliant. 8 out of 11 ain’t bad. He’s 5-4 over those starts but a couple of those losses came when the offense wasn’t hitting, and everyone in the other dugout lucky enough to see our bullpen was.

I think if pitches the exact same way over the next 11 starts as he did in his last 11 (including the periodic meltdown starts)… he’ll probably win 9 games between now and the end of the season. That would be a big help.

If he can about these occassional Sosa/J.Thompson-like outings, he has a chance to become one of the best lefties in the game.

All in all, I think we’re going to get a lot of good starts out of HoRam. I’m not really worried about him (or Smoltz, obviously).

The other day was the first time C.James failed to at least keep the Braves in a ballgame. I think he’ll do a decent job for a 4th starter (certainly by today’s standards).

And Davies recovery is going well. He’s expected back soon.

The huge remaining concern is Tim Hudson. I’m concerned for this season… and there’s part of me that thinks “My God, what if he never recovers???” That’s a lot of payroll to eat over the next few years for a guy with an ERA of over 5.00.

Anyway, that’s got to be the prayer of every Braves fan. We need Huddy. The REAL Huddy. If we get that (and soon), I still believe we’ll win the wild card. If not… we’re sunk.

By KC

August 1, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

CORRECTION: meant to say… “if he can avoid these occasional…”

By Carolina Gent

August 1, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

You know, Torre x 3 might just have a point. What with all the injuries this year to pitchers and key position players, would it be soooo awful to give the team half of September and all of October off for the first time in 14 years? Bring up a bunch of youngsters, let ‘em face off against teams fighting for the wild card or pennants, and let the whole organization see what it feels like to be on the outside looking in. Then maybe they’ll spend some $$ in the winter and upgrade the team!

By Bob, journalist

August 1, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

Lew, you owe David O’B an apology … twas Guy who wrote this Blog … I could tell without reading it ‘cause it was too short to be David. Don’t confuse me like that, it’s bad for my consumption.

Robert I responded to your “8-1” post on the previous Blog … an 11;47 post I think.

By Brent

August 1, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Baseball’s a funny game.

If the Braves produced last Thursday like they did on Sunday, James would be 1-1 in his last two starts.

Instead, he’s on a 2 game losing streak.

By El Guapo

August 1, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

We still can win our division, we just need one team to collapse, it has happened before

By Head coach

August 1, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

As far as the Braves wildcard chances go I think my opinion is well known. They should sweep the Pirates , anything less might as well be the final nail in the coffin. The August schedule looks easy and it remains to be seen if the Braves can scratch and claw thier way back to .500 by the end of the month.

By Lew

August 1, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

Sorry Guy and Bob. I was wrong. Is Robert still around? I have a serious baseball question to ask him.

By The Brave

August 1, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

The Braves are very good. They will go 48-10 to end the season. Those are the facts!

By Head coach

August 1, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

yea and my mama is an alien and my daddy is buck rogers.

By The Brave

August 1, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Why can’t they do it? They have done it in the past and this team is rich in talent.

By Head coach

August 1, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

I bet you do whatever the little voices in your head tell you , Right ?

By phatz

August 1, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

I love my Braves but think this year is not going happen as want. …and even if it did, I am sure it would end up in another NLDS loss.

It’s not out of anger that I say all this - but fact: We have limited starters and a worse bullpen. The whole Leo Mazzone move isn’t looking too bright right now. …but what do I know - maybe it was mutual.

The hitting is too highs-and-lows and clutch hitting just isn’t happening. Last year the Baby Braves rallied around each other and made some amazing things happen but I’m just not feelin’ that this year.

This home stand hurt and will definimtly affect attendance even if they still in the hunt trough the road trip. If the players think the fans have given up - it could easily rub off on them …even subconciously

But that’s just my head being factual - I love the Braves and my heart hopes that they can turn it around …again.

Go Braves.

By Don

August 1, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

KC, step back and put down the crack pipe on HoRam. The guy has 30 strikeouts and 25 walks, lacks an out pitch, has an ERA of 4.5 and you think he’s an elite pitcher who is going to win 9 games in August and September. It is probable that no pitcher in baseball will win 9 games in August and September, and if anybody does it sure ain’t going to be HoRam.

You pronounced Tim Hudson fixed a couple of weeks ago after he threw 5 good innings against the Cardinals with a huge lead before getting shelled in the 6th (which you dismissed as irrelevant because it was hot and Cox should have pulled him after 55 pitches).

There’s optimism and then there’s being such a homer that you can’t look at anything even semi-objectively.

By Ron Roberts

August 1, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

I knew it was Guy the minute I got to the end of the post and didn’t have to skip past another paragraphs-heavy music diatribe.

I work in the industry, so coimng here is usually a nice getaway, til I get to the DOB music anthologies.

Besides, Guy just “puts it out there” for us to discuess. There’s nothing wrong with that; just differing styles, and I like DOB’s as well, minus the music mush.

Carry on.

By Ron Roberts

August 1, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Wow…all those TYPOS!! That’s it… lunchtime!

By Head coach

August 1, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

All right , time for a trip back in time just so ya’ll can see just what the wild card will look like at the end of the 2006 season. August 1 2005 the Houston Astros were leading the wildcard race with a record of 57-48 and nine teams were within 6 games of the Astros. The Astros went on to win the wildcard with a record of 89-73 last season. August 1 2006 the Cincinnati Reds lead the wildcard race with a record of 55-50 with 10 teams within 6.5 games. the wildcard winner will win it with 85 to 88 wins and the Reds will probably be that team. August 1 2005 the Braves were 61-45 , August 1 2006 they are 48-56 Anybody see the mirror correlation from last season to this season ? Don’t you just hate math ?

By TommyB

August 1, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

In case anyone else besides me has this on the mind lately… TB

From MLBTradeRumors.com:

Waiver Trade Rules

I found a helpful old Steve Phillips article explaining the whole August waiver trade thing. If you don’t feel like checking that out, here’s a summary:

Any player can be put on waivers by his team, and the player does not need to be informed.

Other teams have the chance to make a claim on the player during a 47 hour window.

If the player is claimed, the team that placed him on waivers has the option of pulling him back. If the team pulls him back they can’t trade him for 30 days.

If his team decides not to pull him back:

Option 1: His team can work out a trade with the team that claimed him. Any player involved in the trade who is on a 40 man roster must go through waivers first.

Option 2: His team can just dump him and his salary on the team that claimed him, getting no player in return.

Option 3: No one claims him, and his team is free to trade him to any team.

If more than one team places a claim on a player, the winning claim is awarded based on worst record or the league the claiming team is in.

Makes sense? I’m sure I’ll be writing a lot this month about waiver trade possibilities.

By Braves20

August 1, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts - You are a voice of reason. Many have said it in different ways, but if we don’t get the Tim Hudson we paid for NOW, it is going to be difficult if not impossible to climb back into this thing. But if (and it’s a big if) we get the guy we paid for in August and September, it’s gonna be a fun two months!

By Braves20

August 1, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

Just got to read the rest of the blogs. Two comments - Trade Wickman? The guy has allowed one runner in three outings for heaven’s sake. Isn’t that we have been asking for since April. “Don’t you hate math?” i.e. the Reds are going to win the wild card. I like math a lot more than I like the Red’s pitching staff - and they have given away some of the firepower that masked their pitching weakness early in the year. The Braves might not make the wild card - but bet the farm it won’t be the Reds.

By Kentavo

August 1, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

No one thought the starting pitching would suck and no one thought we’d miss Mazzone. I think there is a direct correlation.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

Morning, all! I got some mighty cool stuff on the ol’ digital camera if anyone wants to view…:-) Not free, though; I’m a gentleman. Lew, you were positively in a passion earlier this morning, I noticed. Journalist Bob, hate to hear you have the consumption; you may have to pull a Doc Holliday and move out west.

By Rodger

August 1, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Good comments Don.

The performance we get from Huddy always includes one big inning-or as Cox puts it “just a couple bad pitches and some bad luck”.

By Head coach

August 1, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Braves20 , correction. I said the Reds will probably win the wildcard. thats not a definite. Right now its a toss up between the Reds and Diamondbacks. However , the Dodgers could make a run at the wildcard with the players they picked up in yesterdays trading frenzy.

By CharlotteDave

August 1, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

I took a look at the Red’s schedule and it seems like a pretty tough one. In addition to their series with the Braves, they play seven games against the Cardinals over the next few weeks and end the month of August with a 10 game west coast road trip that extends into September. Also, for some reason, they play tons of games against western division teams the rest of the way. They do have three series with the Pirates and slightly more home games than road games, but, overall, it looks like a tough schedule.

By A1A

August 1, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

Head Coach - are you serious? I am with Braves20 - there is no way the Reds make it. Their pitching is still very weak at best. Let me be the frist to tell you how smart you are - not. All you did was say that one of the top 2 teams will win the wild card and throw in LA for a good balance. What about Colorado???????

By The Brave

August 1, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

Just wait and see the Braves will pull it out. Come on there are 58 games left - you act like they have to make up 6.5 games in 2 weeks. Does the past 14 years not earn them the benefit of the doubt? They have games against everyone in the race, so all they have to do is win those games. Wait and see the Braves will be back to .500 in no time.

By KC

August 1, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Here it is man…

I keep talking about what he’s done since his 11 starts since his return from the DL in May. He only made one start this season before that (April 5th) and he was already hurt when he took the mound. He tried to pitch through it but couldn’t… then went on the DL for about 6 weeks. I’m not counting that one start back in April.

You keep countering with stuff like his strike outs VS. walks ratio this year. HE IS NOT A STRIKE OUT PITCHER!!! That’s irrelevant. And so is how many home runs he gave up last year (something else you’ve brought up in an effort to bolster your “Horacio sucks” argument). His HR allowed per 9 innings is well under half of what it was last year. R.McDowell has him sinking the ball a lot more. He’s not giving up the longball like he used to, and he’s getting outs without striking out a lot of hitters.

He “lacks an out pitch”???? I think you mean that he doesn’t have a strike-out pitch. Again, he’s not a strike-out pitcher.

Since his return to the rotation in May, here’s what HoRam has done:

• 5/27: 7 innings, 1 Earned Runs

• 6/01: 7 inn, 2 ER

• 6/06: 8 inn, 3 ER

• 6/11: 1-2/3 inn, 6 ER

• 6/22: 6-2/3 inn, 1 ER

• 6/27: 8 inn, 0 ER

• 7/02: 8 inn, 3 ER

• 7/07: 1 inn, 7 ER

• 7/17: 5 inn, 1 ER (came out after 5 only because it was a blowout)

• 7/23: 7 inn, 1 ER

• 7/28: 3-2/3, 5 ER

Totals over these 11 starts: 5-4, 4.35 ERA.

In his 3 short outings: 0-3, 13.89 ERA

In his 8 quality starts: 5-1, 1.67 ERA

He’s been feast or famine. That’s a fact. I’ve seen nothing to the contrary. Don, all I’m saying is that if he can do consistently what he’s done in 8 of his last 11 starts, and find a way to avoid those periodic meltdown starts, he can become one of the best lefties in the game. I’m not saying that he is one of the best, I’m saying that if he can consistently give us what he gave us in the 8 starts I keep referring to… he will become one of the best. Take a look at those 8 starts… how can you argue with that?

By KC

August 1, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Last post was for DON… sorry didn’t address it.

By Tomahawkin

August 1, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

I Have a feeling the Reds pitching ain’t gone hold up, They always play good baseball til August, and The Cardinals beat the crap out of them, every year…

We need to play .600 baseball the rest of the way, and can illafford blown saves, by the Blow-pen…

We need to start tonite by taking 2 of 3 from the Pirates, If we’re going to turn things around…

By Lew

August 1, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Grinch-Passion is what it’s all about,dude. It’s just a matter of how and where you direct it that makes the difference.

By Longwood's Finest

August 1, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

I agree… 2 of 3 from the Pirates is a must. Does anyone know who is going to pitch instead of Kip Wells?

I hate to digress onto a past subject but, do you think the Braves didn’t like Betemit’s additude?

I remember him complaining about some PT and he might have said some stuff that made management mad. I just seem to think that if one of the player’s open their mouths and talk negatively, they’re gone. (Robert Fick and Co.) Just a suggestion…bored at work, sorry

By Chop Chop

August 1, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

One advantage that the Reds have is that they have two guys at the top of the rotation that are pitching fairly well. People talk about Bronson Arroyo and how good he’s been for the Reds this year, but Aaron Harang has been more consistent over the last month and a half. The Braves have one starter (Smoltz) they can count on. At the moment, the Reds have two. Another advantage the Reds have over the Braves is that they finished adding bullpen help while they were 6.5 games ahead of the Braves. Don’t discount that.

Obviously, the Reds have to be more worried about winning their games than the Braves losing theirs. The Braves are tenth in the wild card standings right now, folks. Moving up won’t be too difficult, but passing everybody is going to be awfully tough for a team that hasn’t been consistently good for more than 20 games at a time.

By Lew

August 1, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Longwood-I wondered about that myself. He went fromBC saying he would fill in for the middle infielders regularly and then played one game. If something happened, that’s when it was. KC-interesting stats. Consistency, however would be a good thing. THE BRAVE-Yes, the past 14 years count for something, but maybe not in this context. I’m much more concerned with the past 10 games and our seven losses in that span. That is infinitely more meaningful in this case than the track record of the past 14 years. Apparently we no longer have the starting pitching we once did. To the person fussing about the “Blowpen”, man, have you been watching the games lately? The bullpen has been phenomenal, especially considering they’ve gone up to eight innings in their games recently. A bullpen will very rarely be successful when taxed to the point of pitching 4 or 5 innings every day. Let’s hope the rotation steps up and earns their keep. If not we don’t stand a snowball’s chance.

By Longwood's Finest

August 1, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

Well let’s hope the Braves can turn it around now that all the trade speculation has been going on. Maybe that got into Huddy’s head a bit, I mean his name started to float around in May I believe.

I think the lineup will be fine with Giles back in the 2 hole for a bit. They just need to stop swinging for the fences everytime. Gotta love America’s Team

By KC

August 1, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

The offense will be fine.

The bullpen will be fine (now).

Smoltz will be Smoltz.

I even think the bottom of our rotation will be fine (at least by current 4th/5th starter standards) once Davies returns.

It’s all about Tim Hudson. He’s the key. Somebody give this guy a V8.

By Calvin

August 1, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

The thing that I am shocked about from yesterday is that the Cardinals actually traded for Sosa. Have they seen his games that he has pitched in this year? I bet they are hoping that he “returns” to his form of last year and not the abomination that the Braves fans saw of him this year.

By Longwood's Finest

August 1, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Got it, yahoo sports is saying Chaucon (sp?) is going to start against Huddy on Thursday

By TommyB

August 1, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Again, from MLBTradeRumors.com:

Waiver Trade Candidate: Randy Wolf Phillies’ southpaw starter Randy Wolf makes $9MM this year in the last of a four-year deal. This makes him an ideal candidate for a waiver trade before August 31st.

Wolf turns 30 this month. He made his first start since June 12, 2005 last Sunday due to Tommy John surgery. His return was also delayed a bit because of a broken hand bone from a line drive. As you would expect with a recent Tommy John guy, Wolf’s control was lacking in his ‘06 debut. He probably won’t get his walks down to below 3 per nine innings until 2007. For what it’s worth, Wolf says his arm feels “incredible” now. His velocity still hasn’t fully returned despite 25 rehab innings.

Still, like Kip Wells, Wolf could be a helpful addition as a fifth starter for a contender. His next few starts (against the Mets and Braves) will be crucial in building up some trade value. Teams like the Red Sox, A’s, Braves, and Reds could have interest in Wolf assuming they are still in contention in a few weeks.”

By RW

August 1, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

All I can say after this weekend is that Time-Warner managed to nickle and dime the braves to death! That being said, I want to let JS share some blame. We had some extra money and we should of had Wickman or someone as a closer. It is in my opinion the one serious mistake JS has made. One other point is since Maddux was trade for nothing why didn’t we take a swipe at him. He can’t do any worse then what we have seen now.

RW… Go Braves!!!!

I still think we get the wildcard

By Longwood's Finest

August 1, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

L.A. gave up a previous gold-glove SS for Maddux… We probably offered another Max Ramirez

By Lew

August 1, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

We were talking about the Tommy John surgery yesterday and apparently it takes about 1 1/2 years to fully come back. He will probably be a good deal by spring training, but might not help much right now.

By Jason

August 1, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

We’ve never needed a sweep as bad as we need one now against the Pirates!

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

I really thought that the 7 game winning streak was going to put the Braves back to being the favorite in the wild card, however, that streak was the exception, not the rule. I kept trying not to think about the pitching during that streak, seeing scores like 15-4, 14-6, 11-3, 12-8 I had no reason to worry about pitching. But, like many others, I soon started to heed the warning that once the offense cooled down, we’d be losing 3 out of 4 of those games unless the pitching picked it up. And of course the pitching hasn’t, so now those scores I mentioned earlier are turning into 1-4, 4-6, 6-10, 2-8…

I don’t see Hudson turning it around any time soon, HoRam is like I’ve been saying - a #3 starter in this league - 3 out of 4 are good outings. And the 1 out of 4 he gets roped and leaves the Braves with no chance to win. Chuck James B!itch! and Davies to me are identical - #5 starters right now with the potential to be #3 AT BEST. Then we’ve got fill-in Shiell who should really be at A or AA. So, how can we honestly expect to win 60% of our remaining games when Hudson and Shiell give us about a 25% chance to win, James and Davies a 50% chance, and HoRam a 75% chance? Even if I throw in Smoltz as a guaranteed win every 5th game, this team is not capable of winning at a .600 or higher clip (which is what it will take to even have a shot at the WC). So, in the mean time, everyone on the team and everyone in (or associated) with the organization will continue to say the right things. But, they ALL know, they’ve been watching this team for 4 months just like the rest of us. This team is not going to suddenly start pitching well after 2/3rds of the season has passed… It’s time to look towards next year, I did that once in early July, then I was fooled by the 7 game winning streak… I won’t be fooled again… NL EAST DIVISION CHAMPS 2007!!!

By Ted

August 1, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

Request for the bandwagon fans - please leave now and don’t come back.

Look, I’m disappointed by how the Braves are doing right now. And I’m also realistic enough to know that the Braves don’t have the greatest chance of extending their playoff streak (division streak is over). But a streak like that is one you don’t voluntarilly give up on. If it ends, it ends, but go down fighting. To all those saying they should trade Baez, Wickman, Giles, the Joneses, etc., please give it a rest.

Anyway, until some team has a magic number of 0 (and it isn’t the Braves), I hope they try to keep the streak alive, no matter the odds. With such a young team, rebuilding has already begun. And the Marlins showed that you can get enough pitching prospects through trades to rebuild a staff in one off-season.

However, for this season, and this week, the Braves MUST sweep the Reds to have any chance. The Braves must close the gap sooner rather than later. They can deal with the sheer number of teams in September provided the gap isn’t too large. But it has to start this week, that’s for sure.

By Lew

August 1, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Let’s get back to .500 first and then try to predict where we end up. No sub .55 team will or should make the playoffs. That should be the first and only goal right now. RW-Were you aware that over his last eight games, Maddux was 2-6 with an ERA of 5.29? I’m not sure he will have much impact for the Dodgers or would have with the Braves. He is not the pitcher he used to be. He is not even the pitcher he was in April.

By Lew

August 1, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

Excuse me, Sub .500 team.

By TommyB

August 1, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Maddux perk up and shine in LA. For one thing, it’ll be much more temperate. LA should be in 70s/80s with little humidity. Chicago is usually an oven in the summer. For another, he’ll be closer to home and that should go a long way. Plus, I think the Dodgers aren’t dead yet. In a race, Maddux will re-invigorate. At least, that’s what the little birds are saying.

By Longwood's Finest

August 1, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Agreed. .500 is an important number for the Braves, unfortunately, in my opinion if they don’t make it there by the 15th-17th(ish) then they won’t make it to the WC. I’ll support them either way though

By geauxbraves2000

August 1, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

Unless I did the math wrong, if the Mets play .500 the rest of the way and the Braves go 45-13, the Braves will win the east. Wow, that means this division race ISN’T OVER.

Not that it’s likely the above scenario will take place, but until the Met’s magic number is 0, this is still the Braves division. They ain’t done yet.

Geaux Braves!!

By Hal

August 1, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

This team goes 48-10 the rest of the way if managed by the tooth fairy with a lot of devine intervention

Horam wins 9 games if they extend the season to x mas and we only play the Pirates and Cubs

By dap

August 1, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Nickeled and Dimed to death is a good way to put it. If the bullpen had been even partially addressed earlier (and we have always known that our bullpen was a major problem), we would be right in the middle of the wild card race, we have addressed it now but with only 58 games to go and many teams to pass. It is a shame. We have potentially wasted an opportunity to extend our post season apprearence streak. We are slowly becoming a just small market team and it will be difficult to get back to the consistant high level that we have enjoyed. As far as next year, we need atleast one more high level starting pitcher.

By Longwood's Finest

August 1, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

geauxbraves2000-

I like the charisma and excitement…Hopefully that’s how our boys are thinking

By Torre!Torre!!Torre!

August 1, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

One thing I’ll say for Braves fans — they’re resilient. You entered the weekend confident the Braves would sweep the Mets and reclaim momentum in the division race. Now, just two days after The Lost Weekend that should have muted any sensible fan’s enthusiasm, you’re pumped up for a sweep of the Pittsburgh Freaking Pirates to jump-start your wild card hopes. And you don’t even seem to realize how pathetic that is.

By Rodger

August 1, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Torre (I’m guessing Frank, since you roll over & play dead), the one thing you’ve seen in the Braves is they haven’t given up. They continue to play til the final out. If the pitching doesn’t put us in such a deep hole early, theres still some life at the ol’ ballpark.

By Don

August 1, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

KC, if Chipper can stay healthy and hit like he did in July, he projects to a .500 batting average with about 45 home runs and 150 RBIs. If I can start playing 18 holes of golf like I play my best 7 or 8 holes in a typical round I’ve got a shot at the senior tour.

Here’s a link to the pitchers with the 40 lowest ERA’s in baseball, it looks with a minimum of 100 innings pitched. Take a look and let me know how many have strikeout to walk ratios that look anything like HoRam’s. I see a lot of 5 to 1’s and 4 to 1’s, none as bad as Ramirez and only 2 or 3 that are even close.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?league=mlb

By Longwood's Finest

August 1, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

Real fans never give up

By Torre!Torre!Torre!

August 1, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

Sure, Rodg, the Braves play till the final out. No quit in these guys. Gotta love ‘em. The only problem is, in 56 of their 104 games so far, the final out has come with the Braves trailing. And that’s because they’re a BAD baseball team.

The sooner you accept the fact that the run is done, the less painful it will be for you. Dragged-out periods of denial will only hamper your recovery.

If you need something to snap you back to reality, check out the bullpen ERA. Or Hudson’s season stats. Or replays the last weekend’s b*tch-slapping at the hands of the Mets.

I’m here for you, Rodg.

By Mets Stink

August 1, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

Longwood, I’m the eternal optimist when it comes to the Braves, but go find me a Pirate or Cub fan that hasn’t given up.

By midnite

August 1, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

I’m really glad we didn’t try to get Maddux especially after him and Boras shafted us in arbitration ($18M) a couple of years ago, causing us to lose Millwood. While they were great pitchers 10 or so years for us we don’t need Maddux or Glavine who are greedy for a couple of extra million bucks. Ole Tommy sure was fading fast Sunday. Just say no to either of those two. Maybe Andruw will make that vulture Boras sit on the sidelines again come contract time. If guys step up we can still as BC says “catch lighting in a bottle” this year.

By Rodger

August 1, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Hudson-ouch Mets-owwww Bullpen-coming around tho…

By Reality

August 1, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Throw out the life boats …. The ship is sinking fast. Women and children first. Just leaves the Braves to go down with the ship. Good Ridence LOSERS.

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

August 1, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

Just reading up on the trade deadline. If we did trade Andruw to Boston, they were going to flip him to Houston for Oswalt.

Here’s the link:

http://www.realgmbaseball.com/srcwiretaparchives/3226/20060801/redsoxweregoingtoflipjonestohoustonforoswalt/

By KC

August 1, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

DON:

I think if you look at HoRam’s walk/SO ratio during his 3 meltdowns VS. his 8 sparklers… you will find that his walks are way up in those terrible outings, and are out a very reasonable level in the good ones.

And please hear me very clearly here… I DON’T GIVE A FLYING #$&!#@(% ABOUT S.O./WALK RATIOS BECAUSE I DON’T GIVE A #&%$@%^@#$ about how many people he strikes out (as compared to walks, as compared hits, as compared to innings pitched, as compared to the number of feathers on a ducks as. It’s about outs… not about strike outs. Period.

Look, the facts are the facts. He’s been out of this world in 8 of 11 starts this year, and awful in the other 3. That is no disputing that.

The difference between you and I is simply how we interpret the same information.

I think those 3 bad starts were an aberration, and that those 8 great starts are more telling of what HoRam’s all about. My guess, and my feeling is that he will become more consistent.

Even if he doesn’t become more consistent, I think if he shuts down the other team 8 out of 11 times, he’s still valuable to this team. But I believe if he *can become more consistent, he has a chance to become a legitimate ace.

Your take is apparently that those 8 great starts were an example of mediocre pitcher overperforming, and that we shouldn’t expect too much from HoRam.

Agree to disagree I guess.

By Don

August 1, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

St. Louis taking on Jorge Sosa on the heels of adding head case Jeff Weaver is a low point for a great franchise. They actually gave up a minor leaguer and are paying Sosa’s salary. How desperate must they be?

Of course, Danys Baez has pitched like Jorge Sosa for the last 2 months and most people here are not only proclaiming our bullpen fixed, but projecting him onto next year’s roster along with Wickman and saying next year’s bullpen is solid. Maybe Baez just had a bad stretch, but he and Wickman are both rentals. Neither of them is going to pitch for the Braves next year. The only way they’d be priced for the Braves budget is if they’re horrible the rest of the year and then we won’t want them. If they show anything (like Farnsworth, last year’s rental did before melting down in the playoffs), JS will watch them sign with somebody else in the offseason for more money than he is able to pay.

By KC

August 1, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

Meant to say… “There is no disputing that.”

By Chop Chop

August 1, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

KC, out of this world? Come on. Horacio has pitched well in most of his starts. I can’t deny that, but he’s not an ace. He’s not a top starter. He will never be one of the best lefties in the game. He reminds me more of Kirk Rueter than Tom Glavine.

Here’s a look at Rueter’s stats:

Kirk Rueter

Horacio has more velocity and could be better than Rueter, but a Rueter-type career wouldn’t be such a bad thing for a guy who can’t strike people out. It’s just tough to win when you can’t strike out hitters these days.

By KC

August 1, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

DON:

You are a positive guy aren’t you. Jeesh… No offense, but I’d have to start taking happy pills if I looked at things the same way you do.

The bullpen is fixed my friend. Not only because of Wickman (a guy who’s converted 18 of 21 save opps this year), or because of Baez (a guy who has NOT pitched as badly as Sosa at any point in his career! And has a great chance of helping this bullpen). But also because Yates has been lights out. Paronto’s been solid all season, and McBride has been lights-out against lefties all year (lately, against righties too).

By Longwood's Finest

August 1, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

KC:

I agree the ‘Pen is fixed, but I still think there might be a few loose boards, but who the he!! am I to judge?

By Don

August 1, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

Sorry KC, but Baez had a Sosa-like ERA of over 6 for June-July. He went from 7 saves and 1 blown save to 9 saves and 7 blown saves. So we have an ERA of over 6 and 2 saves against 6 blown saves. Sosa-like.

I’m not saying he can’t bounce back, but I’ll bet the Dodgers fans were almost as delighted to see him go as we were that somebody took Sosa.

By KC

August 1, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

PEOPLE, PLEASE STOP HEARING THINGS THAT I’M NOT SAYING!

I didn’t say that HoRam is an “out of this world” starter or a truly great pitcher.

I said that in 8 of his last 11 starts he’s been out of this world. That’s a fact my friend. 5-1 with a 1.67 ERA in those starts. (please scroll up to my 2:27 post) Those numbers are out of this world. No one can spin those numbers or claim that he was anything short of dominant in 8 of his last 11 starts.

I AM NOT SAYING that he IS a truly great pitcher right now!!!!!!!!!

I have said, and still believe that he’s shown us what he’s capable of, and if can find a way to be more consistent, he can become one of the best lefties in the game. That doesn’t mean he will… just means that I think he has a chance to be that.

The thing of it is, nobody has their best stuff and their best command every time out. You’ve got to learn how to get through those starts when you’ve got next to nothing working exactly like you want it. That’s what great pitchers are able to do. A great pitcher wouldn’t give up 7 runs on a bad day like HoRam has. A great pitcher would find a way to give up only 4 ER over 5 or 6 innings, even when they really don’t have “it” that day. If HoRam can acquire that skill of getting through the bad says while still keeping his team in the game… yes, I think he will become a great pitcher.

By KC

August 1, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

CHOP CHOP: my last post was in response to your last post. I forgot to address it.

Peace!

By Chop Chop

August 1, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

Don, as far as the Braves’ payroll goes next year, you have to take into account the impending departures of Reitsma, Thomson and the likelihood of a Giles trade. According to FOX Sports’ Atlanta team salary page, that’s $11.35 million of salary that will be coming off the books. The Braves were also paying Sosa $2.2 million this year. That’s $13.55 million lopped off the payroll. Horacio is getting paid $2.2 million this year and, with Hampton returning next year and Chuck James looking like he can handle being a major league starter, the Braves may decide that they don’t want three lefties in the rotation and put on the trading block in the offseason.

In other words, the Braves should have plenty of money to make moves to help the team this offseason. Unless new ownership wants to keep the payroll down, there’s no excuse for the Braves to have a bad bullpen next year. Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James and Davies seem to be locks for the starting rotation if Horacio is moved. Baez is getting a two-month tryout to show what he can do. Wickman is probably going to retire.

Personally, I’d rather see the Braves spend $100-110 million on payroll, but that’s not going to happen.

By Choppin Bob

August 1, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

YEAH!

By KC

August 1, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

Don:

Okay, I stand corrected. I still think the bullpen is fixed. It won’t be perfect, but it will be night and day compared to what we saw the 1st half of the season.

I think Baez will fit in just fine… but we’ll see.

By The GM

August 1, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

Don: Seriously man, see a shrink.

The bullpen IS fixed. And IF Tim Hudson can get fixed in the next couple starts then the Braves could be tough in the playoffs. Granted that is a HUGE “IF”! But still. The offense will be fine. Andruw Jones though needs to carry the team for about 2 weeks, until Chipper is back. He needs to show the team that he is a marquee player and throw them up on his shoulders much as he did last year and carry us till middle of August. If the Braves can go 5-1 on this trip, Then come home and win 4 of 6 from Philly and Milwaukee they would be at 57-59 and in decent shape in the Wild Card race. But the almost HAVE to do that well over the next 12 games. And if Andruw heats up and shows what kind of awesome player he can be, they just might do it. - Along with Huddy regaining some semblence of his old self.

By Chop Chop

August 1, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

KC, even Horacio’s good starts haven’t been “out of this world.” They’ve been good and the Braves really needed them, but the guy gives up a lot of hits (the league is hitting .301 against him). He’s constantly putting himself in trouble, whether he pitches well or not. That was my point. Anyway, I just don’t think Horacio has the ability to be consistent right now. If he eventually finds that consistency, it will most likely be with another team. The Braves can’t afford to pay him 3 or 4 million next year to be mediocre. They can get similar numbers from younger pitchers with better stuff (Davies and James) and more upside.

By hk

August 1, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

KC, … I go along with your thoughts, that we are more or less OK across the board, but the big question is Huddy … 2nd biggest for me is Chipper getting/staying healthy …

… the thing is, the other teams in contention just aren’t that good, may have more problems than we do, and Cincy seems to be slowly coming back to the pack … last few minutes, been playing around with spreading 100 ‘chances’ among the contenders, came out different than I thought it would:

Team………..GB..Chances

Cincinnati ….0.0…17

Arizona……..1.0…15

Colorado…….4.0….8

San Francisco..4.5….7

LA Dodgers…..5.0…12

Milwaukee……5.5….6

Philadelphia…5.5….4

Florida……..6.0….9

Houston……..6.0….8

Atlanta……..6.5…13

Washington…..8.5….1

Chi Cubs……12.0….0

Pittsburgh….15.5….0

Total Chances……..100

… why, we’ve got as good a chance as anybody !!!

Lew, for me it’s not so much ‘passion’, more like ‘structured illusion’ :))

By Don

August 1, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop, unless you want to assume somebody completely unproven like Prado or Aybar or God forbid Orr will replace Giles at second next year you need to add money in for a second baseman. That’s assuming we can find a taker for Giles without being forced to take some salary back. And who do we have that we can live with at 3rd if Chipper goes down for 50 games? Any veterans for pinch hitting roles?

Won’t some of the younger guys like LaRoche, McCann, Francouer, HoRam, Davies, etc. be getting automatic bumps in salary? I think Hudson goes from $4 to $6 million next year, is that accounted for?

I’m not sure how much money will be in the budget for next year, but if I was JS I wouldn’t put the last $9-$10 million of it in a couple of question marks like Baez and Wickman (or comparables) and leave myself no flexibility if they turn out to be the second and third coming of Dan Kolb.

By KC

August 1, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

Here are the noteworthy payroll changes slated for next year:

Mike Hampton: ^^^7.5 mill increase (insurance paid 60% of the 12.5 Atlanta owed him this year, which comes out to 7.5 mill. We’ll owe him the same amount next year. Colorado pays 1.5 mill of his salary)

Horacio Ramirez: ^^^2 mill (this is an estimated increase… he’s arbitration eligible this winter)

Adam LaRoche: ^^^2 mill (Again, estimated arbitration increase. He might not get quite that much of a raise, or JS might work out an extension to avoid arbitration… same with HoRam)

Tim Hudson: -750k (He’ll make 6 mill in 07, down from 6.75)

departures of… John Thompson, Jorge Sosa, Chris Reitsma: -9.7 mill (we’ll be saving a ton of money on those 3 guys)

Marcus Giles: ^^^1.5 (arbitration estimate. He could be traded which would save ATL over 5 mill on the 07 payroll)

If you average out savings VS. pay increases, we’re only looking at an increase of 2 mill or so at the most. We’ll still have 5-6 million to go after a closer this winter, in addition to keeping the rest of the roster in tact.

By D

August 1, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this

Thought you folks would like to see this website. It calculates out the chances each team has of winning their respective division the wild card and overall playoff chances:

http://www.coolstandings.com/baseball_standings.asp

Currently, the Braves have a 5.2% chance of reaching the playoffs. This number goes up or down depending on game results.

By Andy

August 1, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

Good luck tonight braves—-we don’t have starting pitching…is that such a big deal? I mean starters….amazing starters..who cares!! Thompson will not be back—thats really stinks—he is in a contract year—if he could come back and pitch well like he does in spurts—Huddy to become huddy. I don’t feel like that might ever happen that makes me sad. AND HoRam to figure out how to pitch inside(really inside—not over the plate—and low darn it). I agree with several others—these three big IFS’ are the season. If the braves get two of three and Huddy being the main IF—the braves are still a long shot—but it will still be great—soon there will be no basbell and it will stink. So I am just trying to appreciate what the braves have had—do have—and enjoy the game tonight. Go Braves.

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

DOB good article. That stat you posted about only 1 starter on the team having an ERA under 4.50 is mind boggling to me. I mean, what the he!! happened to this pitching staff??? Did they get so demoralized at the beginning of the season when the bullpen was blowing all those leads that they forgot how to pitch?

By KC

August 1, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

OKAY Chop Chop:

I JUST CAN’T LET YOU DO IT. I CAN’T, I CAN’T, I CAN’T.

If you want to say that HoRam is inconsistent… I’ll go with you there. If you want to say that he’s a mediocre pitcher who over performed in those 8 (of his last 11) great starts… we can agree to disagree.

But to try to spin those 8 starts in an attempt to say weren’t all that great, is really, really weak (and that’s an understatement).

5-1 with a 1.67 ERA. Spin that any way you want. That is DAMN dominant.

Before you counter that those 8 starts don’t mean anything… Hey, I’ll give you that it’s only 8 starts. He’s got an awful lot still to prove. No doubt about that. But I just can’t let your attempt at diminishing what he accomplished in those 8 starts pass.

The start against Phili last week was the only one of those 8 great starts in which he gave up a lot of hits (10). I watched every pitch of that game, and they scattered a slew of weak and bloop hits. There were only 2 or 3 balls hit well off of HoRam that entire night. And Don will be happy to know that he only walked 1 batter through 7 complete innings in that game.

Say what you want about HoRam, but to try and spin and diminish 5-1, 1.67 is WEAK, WEAK, WEAK.

By MBATL

August 1, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Good numbers, KC. I would sure expect that 2nd base is Prado’s to lose next spring, if JS & Co. decide not to keep Giles. Prado has hit at every level and has pretty much done what he’s gonna do in the minors. Then you’ve got Aybar to back up 2nd and 3rd, and Escobar to back up SS and 3rd also.

By Don

August 1, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

I don’t want to see a shrink if the objective is for me to join some of the rest of you in your fantasy worlds.

The Braves teams that won did it with pitching, first or second in the league in ERA until the last couple of years. You can’t win with this train wreck of a pitching staff. For next year we’re looking at a pitching staff with a 40 year old ace who has had elbow surgery twice, a guy coming off Tommy John surgery, a former ace who has an ERA of 5.25 and hasn’t gotten through the 6th inning in 6 consecutive starts, a guy who led the league in home run balls in 2005 and has 30 strikeouts and 25 walks this year, and a couple of guys who have maybe 150 big league innings of experience between them. And then we’ve got a bullpen full of guys who average maybe 50 big league innings of experience if that.

We’ve been starting a guy who was pitching in the Independence League 60 days ago. One of our most reliable relievers is a guy who bounced around in the minor leagues for a decade.

I can wish it was something else, but it is what it is.

By Lew

August 1, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

HK-The artist as opposed to the scientist.

By Chop Chop

August 1, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

Don, the Braves are not going to pay a veteran bench guy more than 2 million, but Lord knows that whatever veteran bench help they get will have to be productive (in other words, not Brian Jordan). The Braves can offer Giles arbitration and let him walk away for draft picks. With Giles’ struggles this year, that seems more likely than a trade. The Braves are going to go cheap at second base next year, whether it’s Aybar or Prado.

NOTE: I DO NOT WANT THE BRAVES TO GO CHEAP AT ANY POSITION, BUT I CAN’T DO A DAMN THING ABOUT IT!!!!!!

There. That feels better.

KC, for whatever it’s worth, I remember reading (yeah, I think DOB said this, but I could be wrong) that the Braves have budgeted Mike Hampton at $8 million as part of the team’s payroll throughout the life of his contract. In other words, they’ll pay him more than that, but they’re not counting anything beyond that $8 million for what they’re spending on the team. New ownership may or may not change that. Basically, Hampton’s $8 million has been factored in this year, even though the team isn’t paying him that much because of the insurance. If the new ownership keeps the same policy regarding Hampton’s contract, you don’t have to factor in the extra several million dollars to the Braves’ payroll. If they change that policy, you’re right about his numbers.

By MBATL

August 1, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

Don, you’re right. Pitching is king. The Braves have made a very respectable effort to maintain that tradition.

Signing Hudson, by pretty much everyone’s estimation, was a good move… we got a three years cheap on one of the winningest young pitchers in baseball. He hasn’t performed!

The Hampton deal was good too, given what he had done and what we could expect, and the help we got with his contract. He got hurt!

JS gets criticized for not doing what’s necessary with this staff, but really he’s made a couple of very bold moves to get us past Glavine and Maddux. They just haven’t worked out as planned.

So now we’re locked up with those big contracts, and if those 2 guys don’t get back to form, we’re in trouble, or at least we’re depending on young guys to pick up the slack, cause that’s probably all we can afford.

By shawn

August 1, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

I asked last week if the Braves were swept by the Mets would JS become a seller and unload salary. I was immediately ripped by Lew, Tennesse, and even DOB. I think DOB called it a loser mentality. Well guess what happened, they were swept, and JS did make calls on Andruw and not just to the Red Sox as reported here. I keep reading that Andruw is resignable after next year but the mere idea that JS was shopping him says HE doesn’t beleive they can resign him. He wants to unload Andruw before he becomes a 10/5 man and they can’t.I mention Chipper needed to be moved because of age, injuries, salary and declining prodcution and immediately got responses to I was nuts. Now DOB says he probably can’t be traded for those very same reasons. You people get a clue it isn’t about giving up but instead structuring yourself for success over the next few years not just hanging on for one. We need starters and not average one but top notch ones. I for one say trade Andruw for starting pitching. If they can get the Red Sox deal then do it by all means. If it takes unloading Hudson, Chipper and Giles just for salary relief…so be it. Use the salary for Zito in the off season. Zito , Smoltz, Hampton, McCarthy or Jon Lester is a real nice start next year. Strengthen your starters and your bullpen will come together with the core group you have (including Boyer and Foster). Then you start the process of plugging in some guys to replace Chipper, Giles and Andruw. Coca Crisp, Soriano, and Francouer is a nice outfield. The 2nd base job can be addressed internally. We would have a third baseman but he’s gone now so I guess we need to look a little there. Point is build up the starters, resign the relivers (Wickman, Baez), unload the salaries, get younnger and faster……what the hell would it hurt….we aren’t going anywhere like this

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

Nevermind, this is a Guy Cartwright article isn’t it…

By metsmanintheatl

August 1, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

what have u been smokin’?

By Chop Chop

August 1, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

KC, I said that the Braves needed every single one of Horacio’s good starts, but “damn dominant” does not describe him (or them) in any way, shape or form. Any starter is capable of putting together good starts if he can keep the ball in the park and not walk people. As you can readily see by looking at his stats, those were the keys for Horacio in those eight starts. If he can do that on a consistent basis (to me, that’s two good starts out of every three), he will be a good pitcher. I’ll give you that. Otherwise, he’ll just be another guy who can’t ever seem to repeat success. That is precisely the problem that Leo Mazzone and Bobby Cox (and presumably Roger McDowell) have had with the guy ever since he came up to the big club.

5-1, 1.67 ERA. That’s impressive. Unfortunately, his bad starts have been really bad. If the guy ever finds a happy medium, he might be worth the kind of money he’s going to get in arbitration.

By Lew

August 1, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

Shawn-I ripped on you for ragging on Giles, not for advocating trades.

By hk

August 1, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

Lew-you got it …

By shawn

August 1, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

Lew actually I pushed for trading Chipper, Andruw and maybe even Smoltz. I don’t think there would need to be much convincing on trading Giles with what he has done this year. That being said the high salaries are the ones that need to go. I am just saying use the salary on DIFFERENT players (Zito, Soriano) not cutting the budget to Marlin land.

By old timer

August 1, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

Still have a shot for the ‘card, for sure. Have a decent pen now and just need the starters to come around. Maybe Aybar can be the leadoff guy we’ve lacked all year. When Chipper gets healtly, maybe he can play in left.

As for next year, we might have the lights out closer we need. Of all the starters in baseball, who is most like the Eck before he became as good at closing as it gets? Gotta be Hudson. Eck was a former 20-game winner who couldn’t get deep into games anymore. Hudson has similar stuff and could come in for an inning and just go right after them like Eck did.

Then we’d need a couple good starting pitchers to go with Smoltz.

The kids playing the positions are going to get a lot better. And I really think Pena is good enough that we could trade Edgar for a starting pitcher. Plus we have a couple more really good shortstop prospects.

If we weren’t coming off 14 straight winning years, we’d be saying, Man, what a future this team has! We’re on the verge of being a contender for a long time. Again.

By MBATL

August 1, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

Shawn, do you think we should’ve traded AJ for Crisp, Hansen and a prospect?

By old timer

August 1, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

That’s Aybar in left, not Chipper.

By Lew

August 1, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

Shawn- You’re going to replace Andruw’s salary with Soriano’s? What do you think ol Alphonso is going to command on the free agent market this winter? He walked of with $10 mil in arbitration and has had a great offensive year. I say he’ll get $15 mil if Furcal got $13 mil. Andruw is making$13. For everyone so heated up on Coco Crisp, the (pardon the pun) flavor du jour- Are you aware that he has never played more than 145 games in a season? In 03 he played 99 games, in 04 136, in 05 145 and this year he has played in 61. If you take out 03, which may have been his rookie year, he has averaged missing at least 25 games a year. Andruw hasn’t missed that many in his career. Are you also aware when speaking of his blazing speed, he never stole more than 20 bases in a season and only 65 in his career. He isn’t even being used as a leadoff hitter-Youklis is. Also, he has a career batting average against RHP of .251. You’re (not necessarily you Shawn) going to replace Andruw, his 35-50HR and 120 RBI’s with him? Come on. Do we need a reality check?

By shawn

August 1, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

MBATL…yes I would have or did a deal with the White Sox who wanted him pretty bad and were offering McCarthy and Poesednik…Andruw make 13 mil and I think he is a great centerfielder and his production is NOT why I would trade him, but he has played a lot of games in the last ten years and after next year we won’t resign him. I would use that money on Soriano (plus Giles’s 3.5).

By shawn

August 1, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

But Lew that is the point I don’t want Coca Crisp because he would be another Andruw. I think this team has no balance. I would much rather have 6-7 guys hitting 20 hr’s and steal 20 bases than what we have now. Do you realize the Braves only score if they get three singles or hit a home run. No speed….not a little…NONE. We can’t win 3-2 games because of that fact and our weak startes. If dealing Andruw weakens CF but improves the overall quality of the club you have to do it. That is nothing against Andruw.

By MBATL

August 1, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

Shawn, I’m not an AJ fan, I’m a Braves fan. It was not a loaded question, I just wanted to get your opinion.

I read that we offered AJ for McCarthy but were turned down. And that we offered him for Lester and were turned down. As DOB said, “swinging for the fences.” Probably the right strategy at this point.

I have a feeling that JS doesn’t feel good about the prospects of re-signing AJ and that we’ll see him traded between now and April.

I don’t really want Soriano (out of the frying pan into the fire, imho), at his price, but wouldn’t mind seeing us unload AJ in the next few months.

By shawn

August 1, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

The reason I worry is between now and April he becomes a 10/5. Do you think he would o.k. a trade then?

By Lew

August 1, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

Come on Shawn-People this season have raised holy whatever because Chipper has been injured. Part of why I got on your case with Giles was because you were making such a big deal about his injuries. Now you’re wanting a player who misses at least 25 games a year and bats .251 against RHP who will make up most of who he faces, just because you like small ball? We’re losing left and right this year even with Andruw and you think we can replace him with mediocrity? You’d better get more than Hansen in return if you thin our pitching staff can absorb the loss of those runs. Keep in mind that Boston called JS-not the other way around. They offered Crisp and Hansen, who has a career 4.94 ERA. It was JS who mentioned Lester and Epstein cut off the negotiations. This was not an equitable trade. Maybe for Lester and Papelbon and Willy Mo.

By shawn

August 1, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

Also maybe a prospect or two (or Kyle Davies….sorry guys I don’t see the fuss about him) might have helped the Sox says yes. I feel that both of these team would give more at the deadline this year than maybe in the offseason. What do you think?

By KC

August 1, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop:

“Unfortunately, his bad starts have been really bad. If the guy ever finds a happy medium, he might be worth the kind of money he’s going to get in arbitration.”

I agree wholeheartedly with the above statement. Just can’t accept any attempt to diminish what he’s done when he’s been on his game. He’s gotta start showing some consistency. I agree 100%.

But any argument that attempts to assert that he wasn’t dominant in the 8 starts in which he posted a 1.67 ERA… falls apart on its merits (or lack thereof).

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 1, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop, I agree with you about Horacio. He is a good pitcher right now that can be pretty good if he learned how to throw strikes and hit the corners. He will never be a #1 starter. He just doesn’t have that type of stuff. Be honest. Tom Glavine was never a #1. Just a damn good #2. One thing about all of these pitchers except for Smoltz (most of the time)is that they don’t seem to be trying to hit corners and keep the ball down. Pitch after pitch seems to always be up. Leo’s philosophy of pitch away away away and then come inside is a good one. Even a good away pitch hitter like David Wright can’t hit a pitch down and away out of the park. Its that simple. McDowell needs to drill in these guys head to pitch low and away and insided. It seems to me that they don’t pitch according to the scouting reports of these hitters. Glavine, Maddux, Avery, Neagle, and Smoltz knew each hitter and knew where they liked the pitch and simply avoided pitching it there. None of these guys seem to do that.

As for next year. In reality the Braves only have 2 million to work with (without any trades) if you put the other 6 mil toward a closer, which honestly isn’t going to be enough unless you can somehow convince Wickman to stay or Baez doesn’t get more on the open market. Another option could be Stockman. He sure throws hard enough. I’m counting Sosa, Jordan, Reitsma, and Giles being traded. You can’t count the 5 mil he will probably get in arbitration because he isn’t getting that now. Some money must be opened up to get an outfielder or 2B who can leadoff. A Giles trade will more than likely bring pitching (hopefully major league ready pitching). We may have to trade LaRoche (though I really don’t want to do that). Now, one option could be making a trade with the New York Yankees for Melkey Cabrerra. If the Yanks exercise Sheffield’s option then there would be no room for Cabrerra. Matsui would be in left, Damon in center, Abreu in right with Sheffield as the DH and a backup along with Craig Wilson. If that’s the case we could possibly offer Giles instead of pitching and a prospect. The Yanks may take that deal because they will be shoppping Cano for pitching and would need a 2B and even if they don’t trade Cano these are the Yanks and having a guy like Giles on the bench would be great for them.

Now, lets say they don’t exercise Sheff’s option. The Yanks may be willing to make a trade for LaRoche because they don’t really want Giambi anywhere near 1B because he is a HUGE defensive liability. They would then put Giambi in the DH role (where they prefer him) and LaRoche, who is an excellent defensive 1B no matter what people on this blog say, could play 1st. And Lord knows with that short porch in right field LaRoche could easily hit 30-35 Hrs if not 40. The Yanks would put with the strikeouts if they could get that kind of power production.

I know some on here will laugh at such a suggestion but I guarantee the Yanks would consider it and the Braves have to do something to get a leadoff hitter in the lineup. I have a feeling that Prado will be the 2B next year unless Aybar really impress but in any event the lineup needs someone who can get on base at a .400 clip and steal some bases. Period!!!!!!!1

By hk

August 1, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

MBATL,

… didn’t get a chance to say anything yesterday, glad to see your smiling face once again …

By shawn

August 1, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

Actually Lew I want to replace Andruw and Giles with Crisp, Lester, Hansen and use the salary on Soriano. Sorry but that is a good deal no matter how you look at it. By the way you have me confused about Giles. I would trade or non-tender him but he is way down the list.

By shawn

August 1, 2006 06:20 PM | Link to this

And not small ball, consistent fundamental, what got us in the playoffs in 91 baseball. Strong starters, good defense, and the ability to run and hit when it is necessary. Remember Terry Pendleton of MVP without 100 rbi’s…..steady top to bottom lineup will get you further than hoping for three singles..

By Lew

August 1, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this

But the Sox wouldn’t do Lester in the deal. If you’re talking about what you’d really like, how about Andruw for Dontrelle and Johnson from the Marlins? Otherwise, Andruw is more valuable to us in center next year. If JS doesn’t think he can resign him then you trade him next year. Yes, I think if he isn’t going to re sing, he will waive the 10-5. However, I think they will re sign him for a lot less thanpeople think. Anyway, we have a whole year with his bat to find out.

By MBATL

August 1, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

HK, thanks…

Shawn, I don’t really know. DOB suggested that he’d probably accept a trade to a top-tier team because that would enhance his contract options after next year. I can’t really remember hearing about players in their prime refusing to be traded; it’s more the Maddux’s of the world, who are ready to walk away anyway, that do that kind of thing. But, I really just don’t know.

This, even more than talent evalutuation, is a case where I guess I trust that JS knows what he’s doing; if he thinks we won’t be able to resign AJ, and that he’ll never accept a trade, yeah, he would’ve traded him yesterday for the proverbial bag of balls if necessary. But that didn’t happen.

Maybe they just plan to re-sign him. Not really my favorite option, but that may be the plan.

By shawn

August 1, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

Then sweeten the deal or look elsewhere but if you keep Andruw or Chipper for next year you better love this team as it is because you aren’t going to have the money to change it….

By shawn

August 1, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this

by the way I do trust JS as well as he has done an incredible job over the years of plugging in players as the roster changes. The Braves contrary to what has been dais really has only had a couple of years that they were top 5 spenders. Most of this run came from developing players within. I think he will drastically change the team over the winter I was just hoping it happened a little sooner

By John

August 1, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

I was highly disappointed that we didnt make a trade for starting pitching, yes we did help the bullpen but I hear Wickman may retire at the end of the season so what good was that? We did get rid of Sosa which I was happy about, but we need a solid number 3 guy in the rotation. Also I read in an earlier post that someone was worried about what Hudson was making and how he wasnt pitching that great, but look at Hampton, making 14 million and wont pitch the entire year and missed half of last year, that sounds like a waste to me. Also speaking of Mazzone leaving, I dont think it was that bad a deal. Baltimore isnt pitching great under him and I have heard he has trouble relating to younger pitchers.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 1, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

Here’s the problem with not trading Andruw yesterday or in the offseason and waiting til next year. A lot of people on here said one of their main reasons for not trading Andruw was the problem of where we would get the production from. Well, for the rest of this year it may have been difficult but with the money we would have saved and the extra money left over from getting rid of the dead weight then we could have went out and signed a free agent to fill that spot. Now, if we trade him next year at the deadline as many of you have suggested where are we going to get the production then? We could possibly make a trade for a player to replace his production at the deadline coinciding with an Andruw trade but the price would be much higher. In other words we could have traded Andruw and found someone this winter without having to give up any more players as opposed to trading him at the deadline next year and having to give up players. Look, I don’t want to see Andruw leave. But, we are very unlikely to sign him and he will wind up signing with the Red Sox anyway. So, we should have gotten something out of the deal and we didn’t. That’s the point.

And one more thing I would rather have a lineup full of guys hitting .270 or better with only 15-20 Hrs and OBP of .360 or higher than a lineup full of 25+ Hr hitters who strikeout 15% or more of the time and can’t get on base. Get real. Which is better? You think only being able to hit home runs help? Ask the Tigers of 1986, 1987, 1988, and 1989? How many WS titles did they win? What about the Rangers of the 1990’s? How many divison titles did they win? Two. All flash and no substance. That is the problem with this offense. If we win tonight I almost guarantee we hit at least two home runs. If not, we lose.

By Don

August 1, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

MBATL, I agree with you that JS made good deals for Hampton and Hudson given the constraints he faced. Sometimes making the right percentage move doesn’t work out. Despite how much I dislike the Betemit trade (first because I think we’re out of the wild card with this pitching staff and a Baez rental is therefore near worthless; second because I like one guy who can hit backing up 3 infield positions including a brittle Chipper), I am not a JS basher.

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

Lew and Shawn, please get off of FANTASY ISLAND! Both of your trade scenarios are RIDICULOUS! Josh Johnson (basically a rookie pitcher with Cy-Young stuff) and Dontrelle Willis for Andruw Jones… What are you smoking? Not to mention, AJ would be making more than the rest of the team combined if he went to Florida, they would never take on that contract and they would never make that trade.

And Shawn, seriously man, you are a fantasy geek aren’t you? Did you notice something about trades over the last few weeks? NOBODY trades potentially great young pitching. Look at the pitchers who were dealt, Maddux, Kip Wells, Jorge Sosa… has beens or never were’s. No Zito’s, no Dontrelle’s, no Oswalts, no McCarthy’s, no Lester’s, don’t you get it? Go and look at Detroit’s starting lineup, it’s GOD AWFUL compared to the Braves, but they have almost twice as many wins as us… WHY? Because they have good (potentially great) young starting pitching! The Braves have been getting out-drafted by other teams in terms of pitching for the last decade. JS is so he!!-bent on getting the next Maddux or Glavine (see Davies, HoRam, and James) that he let great power arms go to other teams… This is a problem (starting pitching) that has to be addressed through free agency or THE DRAFT. And since it looks like the Braves budget is hogtied for the next few years by AJ, CJ, Hudson, and Hampton, it will be a looooong time before our starting pitching is the strength of this club.

So both of you guys, please, stop with the fantasy league trades… Andruw Jones in real life is not nearly as valuable as Lester and Papelbon or Willis and Johnson…

By shawn

August 1, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

John you are right. If we traded Andruw now we get back players AND free his salary to replace him with. I am not saying cut his salary out and not use on another player. Use it by all means.20 hrs-80rbi-20steals, good pitching, good defense will go a lot further than waiting and hoping for HR’s. By the way when the Yankees were winning those Worlds Series titles do you realize it wasn’t a homerun team. The boss brought in Sheff, Giambi, and ARod and they haven’t won a title since. Can you see a pattern?

By old timer

August 1, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Robert, a lineup of guys hitting .270 with 15 to 20 homers doesn’t work. That’s 8 LaRoche’s, using roughly his average season to this point in his career. You need a couple big boppers in the middle of things.

By shawn

August 1, 2006 06:56 PM | Link to this

Can you even read moron?….nobody said anything about Papelbon and the trade I mentioned was the one JS (guess JS is a fantasy geek) said he was turned down on. However what I did say is sweeten the pot and add players to make it happen. If you don’t think young pitching can traded for you are naive. Every here of Kazmir?

By Calvin

August 1, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

Boston would never trade Paplebon. Keith Foulke on the other hand….

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

Why don’t we trade Andruw Jones to the twins for Santana and Liriano? Bam, there’s our 1-2 for the next 10 years! The Twins are looking for power and AJ gives them that…. Ha Ha, LMAO…

By shawn

August 1, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

By the way JS still may trade players….every player will hit the waiver wire immediately to see who makes it through. Could be a surprise or two yet…

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

Shawn, as a matter of fact I have heard of Kazmir… And where is the dumba$$ GM who made that trade now?

By shawn

August 1, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

why don’t we trade you for a box of rocks…equal value

By Lew

August 1, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

Don Coberleone-I KNOW it is fantasy. I said it facetiously as to what Andruw should be worth-NOT that it would ever happen. More on the Coco Crisp deal. Over the past 30 games, Crisp has batted .255 while Langerhans has batted .268. Crisp’s avg. against RHP is .251, Langerhans .247. We all saw the plays Langerhans made last week and for two years. Why are you so hung up (not you Don) on an outfielder who misses 25 games per year, can’t hit right handers, hits .247 on the road and only .301 at Fenway. Even playing with Papi, Manny and the boomers, over the past 10 games he has scored 3 runs, despite batting .310. We already have an outfielder who does that. Maybe even two or three. This guy isn’t what you think he is.

By shawn

August 1, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

Don don’t you have a Godfather movie to wank off to

By Mark

August 1, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

I told you people a couple of weeks ago not to get into this Braves hype when they were scoring all those runs. They a not going to win the wildcard and shouldn’t. They would be disgraceful in the playoffs. Horatio sucks, Hudson sucks, James is pretty good, and Smoltz is great! Our lineup is streaky. They don’t manufacture runs. I feel Edgar Renteria should be leading off. Hell, he did for the Marlins in 1997. It’s over! I think the Mets series confirmed that. That series showed what kind of heart this team has.

By shawn

August 1, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this

by the way Lew the pitchers and the freed up salary are more important than Coco Crisp

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this

Seriously Shawn, lets do it, then JS can turn around and trade that box of rocks for Jered Weaver…

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

Ok, seriously though, Shawn and Lew, do you guys agree with me that Scheurholz has been getting out-drafted (pitching-wise) by almost every other major league club over the past 10 seasons?

By shawn

August 1, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

Don are you really Steve Phillips?

By Lew

August 1, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this

Shawn-I’m glad you see that, but what pitchers are you talking about. I told you the Red Sox offered Crisp and Hansen. Hanse has a career 4.64 ERA. They wouldn’t trade Lester and when JS mentioned Lester, the Sox stopped negotiations. If that’s all you can get for Andruw, from a team that has half of all the money in the world, what are you gonna get for him elsewhere? I would much rather keep him next year and lose him afterwards than trade him for a mediocre outfielder and a young pitcher who isn’t any better than pitchers we have on our own roster. Just making a trade for the hell of it is absurd. Even the Astros balked at trading Oswalt to the Sox for Andruw straight up. You aren’t going to get what he’s worth as opposed to the numbers he puts up the rest of this year and next.

By shawn

August 1, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

His drafting has been poor as most of the guys developed internally were aquired when Cox was GM. Yes I would agree with that. I also agree that some of the holes ahve to be plugged via Free Agency but with the current salaries on the team….how do you do that?

By TennesseePaul

August 1, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if this was mentioned earlier because there are too many posts and not enough time…

Hampton was slated at I think 13.5 million next year. However in that trade for Hampton, we recieved cash. JS, being the good GM that he is, took that cash and leveraged it across the remainder of his contract, bringing his Annual salary down to 8 million out of the Braves pocket for each year he is with the Braves. (This is based off of a Blog/Article which DOB did about a month ago. Argue with him if you believe it is incorrect).
Now, he was due quite a bit this year (12.5 million, which the Braves were paying out of pocket 8 million (again from DOB), of which 60% (of the total 12.5) was paid by insurance. So, now there is an extra 7.5 million which I wouldn’t be surprised if JS again spread it out over the remainder of the contract (speculation, but not far fetched).
So, With that in mind, Hampton will cost the Braves a maximum of 8 million a year or a minimum of about 6 million a year for the remainder of his time here. Regardless of what is on the ESPN contract issues. They only post what the contract states, not how the money is invested. Which isn’t that bad.
Hampton getting injured was probably the best thing for the Braves in these cost conscience days. Plus, all his ills should be healed (knee, arm, head, whatever) by the time he rejoins us next year.

By Lew

August 1, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this

Don-No I don’t agree. The reason we don’t have the pitchers is that we traded Belisle, Wainright, Zumwalt, Cappelan, Cruz,and others for quick fixes to continue the damn streak.

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this

I mean, the best pitcher he’s drafted over the last 10 years (Jason Schmidt) isn’t even on the team anymore…

By shawn

August 1, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

But Lew sweeten the deal or look at other teams but its not just the return players that is crucial but using that salary somewhere else next year? If the Braves had unlimited budget I wouldn’t say that but they will NOT spend above 80-85 million next year….so how do you improve?

By Dog the Bounty Hunter

August 1, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this

Lew, what about a good book?

By shawn

August 1, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this

You are right Lew abouting them trading youth to hold on to the streak….but holding all the vets when it won’t help is kinda the same thing don’t ya think

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this

Come on Lew, the guys you named are quality middle relievers AT BEST. And Cruz? He is no better than Davies or James…

By shawn

August 1, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Guys all I am doing is throwing out ideas. Surely nobody thinks if this team returns intact next year they win the division and if so how do you improve them given the budget restraints.

By nathan

August 1, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

Lew

Will you be calling any trade for Andruw a bad one if we don’t get “equal” value in return? And what will you call all of the mediocre options we “could have” got for him, in about 15 months when he leaves via free agency and we get nothing but draft picks in return? (or get burned like we did with Maddux, by offering arbitration)

Face facts. He won’t be wearing a Braves uniform in 2008, even if he wants to give us a “home town” discount. The ONLY way he stays is if new ownership allows payroll to be raised. And even then, do we want to lock down a 31 year old CF who will probably have lost some range by then? If new ownership doesn’t raise payroll and JS chooses to lock up Andruw longterm at about 15 million a year, it’ll be the worst mistake he ever made as a GM. Why do you think our pitching staff sucks right now?

I’ll give you a “few” reasons:

Andruw, Chipper, Hudson, Hampton. (1 of them is DIRECTLY responsible - the other’s are guilty by association.)

A couple of other reasons are JS himself, Maddux and Glavine. Here are my reason’s on these three: JS had the stupidity to try and keep an aging, gradually ineffective pair of future HOF pitchers around longer than he should have. (1980’s Boston Celtics of Bird, Parish, McHale and Ainge ring any bells?) When guys are kept too long, not only do you not get equal value in return when you try to dump them (The Cubs just dumped Maddux), you rely on them to solidify your staff/roster. So when they do become ineffective you all of the sudden have NOTHING left, because you were counting on them to carry the load and didn’t give the neccessary attention to the rest of the pitching staff (oh, we’ll be fine, we’ve got maddux and glavine! - or somthing to that effect.)

Maddux screwed us BIG TIME (not his fault - all he did was acccept arbitration - JS should’ve NEVER offered it!) What did that move do short and long term? Well it made us have to DUMP Millwood ASAP, which every other team new we had to do, so it screwed JS out of getting max value for Millwood. Face it, he got lucky with Estrada, NO WAY did he think a .260 career minor league hitter was going to put up those numbers. 2nd, it forced us to not offer Maddux arbitration the following off season. So we ended up getting NOTHING in return for him anyhow! Still think we shouldn’t have “sold high” on Maddux a couple season’s earlier?

Glavine really didn’t do anything, other than string us out longer than neccessary so that all of the other pitchers on the market were gone. That forced us to make ill-advised trades and signings of Hampton and Russ Ortiz (don’t even bring up his “I got a lot of run support” 20 victory season!)

Glavine is the least of these issues. But you can essentially see the “avalanche” effect that was put into place starting with Maddux accepting arbitration. (All of the blame for this, I place squarely on the shoulders of JS!

So as much as I’d like to keep Andruw around. He’s is no more important than Maddux and Glavine were 4 to 5 years ago. So don’t give me the “we wouldn’t survive without him” routine. Yeah, it would be different, but we’d survive. Hell, if JS made the “right” moves, we might even benefit from ridding ourselves of his contract (not him - just his contract - not to mention Chippers’ and Hudson’s) Look at the Mariners and White Sox a few years back. The did massive salary dumps and used the money to build a good TEAM!! (I’m talking the couple of seasons after the traded Griffey Jr and Randy and let AROD walk) That freed up a LOT of cash! Who do you think they’d rather have right now, Griffey Jr. or Ichiro? Guess what, they wouldn’t have been able to sign Ichiro if they would’ve still had all of those guys on the roster.

Obviously the Mariners have not maintained that, but if you haven’t noticed, neither have we. As far as the White Sox, they just told Frank Thomas to take a hike this last off season! Yeah I know he’s was kind of a pain in the butt, but if he was still putting up BIG numbers they would’ve dealt with it. Make no mistake, they dumped him do to his unreliability (sound like a particular 3B we have? - still great hitter but can’t stay on the field)

Hell, why don’t we just get ourselves an EX-Allstar lineup of the walking wounded? Garciaparra (who btw, I was pleading for JS to sign this offseason - and that would’ve been a mistake I guess), Frank Thomas, Chipper and Barry Larkin. WOW! what a cast of All Stars/Future HOF players! Who would happen to probably play in about 12 games together at the same time! LOL!

Let’s not make the same mistake with Andruw that we did with Chipper! WAAAAAAAY better to cut somebody loose too early than too late. IMO. Yeah, we may regret it for a year or two. But longterm he aint worth it. Do you think the Diamondbacks regret trading Randy Johnson? Not a chance in Hell! I could go on all night about teams that don’t try to “hang on” to the fan favorites too long, but you get the point.

Sorry Lew, this wasn’t directed at you. I was just responding to your post and then the next thing I know, it’s 6 days later and I’m still typing! LOL

Let me have it people!

By TennesseePaul

August 1, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

DonC: I’m not sure I’d agree with that. I mean, I read on this blog every day about how JS is just handing away great pitchers left and right. If he is getting out drafted, then where are all these great pitchers he hands off coming from?
To add to that, Davies and James are his draftees. They are rookies right now, but who knows what the future holds for them? They could turn out to be amazing.
On top of that, one must take into consideration the draft level… JS has been winning for the past 15 years so he doesn’t get that many early and high draft picks. But I think, considering, he has done well.
Another point… It will seem he is out drafted when you compare 29 to 1. Out of 29 teams, I’m sure there will be a larger pool of good pitchers than out of 1 team. (example: 29 teams draft one good picher, the Braves draft 2. That’s 29 to 2. It’s lopsided looking, but not necessarily a matter of being out drafted). To make the case, you’d have to compare some team like the Yankees or maybe the Red Sox, or any team that has won for a long, long period of time, which has turned out more quality pitchers from it’s drafts than JS. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but I wouldn’t agree off hand. I’d have to see the numbers first.

By midnite

August 1, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

There are good points on both sides of the trade Andruw/don’t trade debate. Everytime he dives it looks like he really crashes hard these days. My heart skips when he swings and falls also. One of the best CF of all time. We would need consistent production up and down the order to overcome his lose. JS most of the time gets the most bang for the buck in his trades so AJ should have some good value for the money teams. A smart club could do a lot with $80M payroll since contracts are some what more sensible these days. JS should at least entertain all offers this winter.

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this

LaRoche goes yard, no one on base, hmmmm, maybe because 4 of the first 6 batters struck out!?! Leave it up to the Braves to make Snell look like Nolan Ryan…

By Calvin

August 1, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this

Striking out a lot aren’t we tonight??

By journalist jimmy smith

August 1, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this

yesterday was a good day for toes. the landing on his toe article crafted by journalist guy curtright brought tears to this journalist’s eyes. joey devine will need to see a good toe man over the winter.

jimmy smith has been watching the braves for a long time. it is hard to remember them being so terribly undisciplined at the plate. do they never take a pitch? still, runners on second and third and adam laroche at bat. can he do it again?

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, look at the Red Sox then… Papelbon, Lester, Hansen, Delcarmen… All have great potential… You honestly believe that Davies and (25 yr old) Chuck James have great potential?

By DonCoburleone

August 1, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

And I love Smoltz, god, think where we’d be without him, but he sure has given up ALOT of leads this year…

By old timer

August 1, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this

Nathan, trading Maddux and Glavine when they were possibly nearing the end of their primes would have meant not making the playoffs. Is that what you would have wanted? Not make the playoffs for a few years while rebuilding with the young guys obtained for Maddux and Glavine? No point in trading them for guys their age, right? Or maybe signing some pitchers in free agency to fill their spots? Trouble is, those guys wouldn’t have been as good, and if they’d been near as good, they would have cost much or more. So I don’t understand what you are getting at here, unless it was to rebuild. Which makes no sense when you have good shot at winning. Teams with a good shot at winning add quality veterans, they don’t dump them.

By nathan

August 1, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this

Don the strike outs are my point exactly!

Look at the stats:

Andruw: .272 - 25 HR & 91 RBI

Francoeur: .263 20 HR & 74 RBI

LaRoche: .269 21 HR & 60 RBI

Please note that both Francoeur and LaRoche are definitely above average if not Gold Glove caliber defensively. So is Andruw still worth 15 million a year when we’ve got 2 guys putting up essentially the same numbers (don’t get on me about the RBI totals, if Francoeur was hitting cleanup he’d have 90 RBI too. So would LaRoche - how many would McCann have if he was hitting in Andruw’s spot?)

This offense and defense can survive without Andruw. The pitching staff could actually flourish without his salary on the roster! Andruw’s glove has always been great. He’s shared his fair share of runs for the pitching staff. But so did, Grissom and Nixon and Lofton. It’s not like he’s the only guy that can catch the ball in CF in the majors. Tori Hunter is darn near as good as Andruw in CF - same stye of player - plays shallow and get’s the bloops, but fealess when going back on the ball. But Hunter only gets about 25 HR and 90 RBI as season. So why not give him about 10 million a year to “catch” the ball instead of giving Andruw 15-20 million a year. Then you can get a few more pitchers and bench players - but maintain excellent defense in CF. Or just let Langerhans play out there and bat eighth. Sure you sacrifice a LOT offensively. But, we’d be saving about 15-20 million on the payroll. I’d say that 15-20 million would by you at least one if not two pretty decent pitchers via free agency or trades, but then again Tim Hudson might be what you get if you make a bad trade! LOL

That’s why I say, trade him for major pitching prospects. Then use the freed money to find a couple of “stop gap” pitchers until the youth is served!

By journalist jimmy smith

August 1, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

bugs bunny and elmer fudd are now announcing the game! oh, the humanity! what is wrong with turner south tonight?

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

Hey, anyone but me notice Giles is a pretty good hitter out of the no. 2 spot? I wonder why it never occured to Bobby to use him there in the past? Wait…you mean that was where he used to be all the time? Surely there wasn’t THAT big a discrepancy in his effectiveness…there was? And obviously, is? Consistently? Huh! Surely Bobby, with this evidence SQUARELY in front of his nose didn’t screw up a key component of our offence every single game Giles played in until that recent deal getting Aybar…he did? Why, that makes me want to scratch my head!

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

What’s wrong with Turner South is that it isn’t TBS…

By Bob, journalist

August 1, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

Mark, regardless of the glasses we wear, most would agree that the odds are long and the time is short for our making the playoffs … but what would make you so callous as to say “They would be disgraceful in the playoffs”?

Making the playoffs would certainly require a strong, consistent effort under continual pressure and would reflect favorably upon the character of the team … to me, saying that they would be disgraceful is to suggest that they would somehow bring dishonor and/or shame upon themselves. The only way I can imagine that could be possible would be if they were not to give their best effort … which would be as shameful as it is unreasonable to suggest.

By nathan

August 1, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

Old Timer, you’re right for the most part. Yes, I’d rather miss the playoffs every 4 or 5 years and “re-tool or rebuild” if it gives us a better shot at actually winning the WS. We really didn’t have legitimate shots at the WS the last 5 or 6 years. We were built to “EAT THE CRAPPY TEAMS ALIVE” and play mediocre ball against the good teams. Which explains why we haven’t won in the playoffs the last few years. Everybody wants to talk about getting screwed, or Cox’s managing (which I won’t argue with - strategy wise), or bloop hits, crap shoot whatever you want to call it. How about this for a theory, the last 5 or 6 years we haven’t been as good of a team as the teams we’ve faced in the playoffs. We haven’t been built to win close tight games. No clutch hitting, and quesitonable bullpens don’t equal up to WS titles. We were in a weak division against a bunch of teams that couldn’t keep up with us in the regular season. But Florida sure found a way in 1997 to kick our A*******es head to head, didn’t they?

So I’ll repeat - I would rather not make the playoffs if it means getting our butts handed to us on a yearly basis in the postseason.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW - ANOTHER STRIKE OUT FOR ANDRUW JONES?

Anyhow, I see your point about teams not “selling” off players when they are trying to win. But other than Smoltz, and Glavine’s one dominating start against Cleveland in 1995, when did Maddux ever dominate the post season for us. Good teams (other than the Braves) alway know how to hit good pitching, and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that Maddux and Glavine were going to pitch away. So was it so shocking to see a well coached and disciplined team like the Yankees hit those guys? Not to me!

Don’t get me wrong. I enjoyed the 10 years Maddux spent in a Braves uniform. I’m glad I got to watch him pitch every 5 days for a decade on TBS, but he never really was a big game pitcher like Smoltz or Avery.

I would’ve much rather kept Jason Schmidt over aquiring Denny Neagle. But you know, Leo didn’t like Schmidt. Apparently Leo didn’t like guys with the potential to be DOMINATING! But that Denny Neagle sure fit the “junk ball - change up - Leibrandt - Glavine - I’m gonna get pounded in the post season - mold, didn’t he? LOL!

Bobby manages a great regular season. I wouldn’t be shocked if we win the wild card this year. But I’m not fooled for a second into thinking if we get in the “dance” we won’t stumble over our two left feet.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 08:25 PM | Link to this

Seriously, though…for everyone who’s bashed Giles all season I think it’s rather obvious what the problem was and it wasn’t him. Bobby should give him a public apology, especially since Giles has HAD to know what people in ATL have been saying about him all season and HAD to know why, yet still didn’t say anything. His major-league reputation and money-making abilty have been compromised in the future by the obstinate senility of one man, and I wonder why I’m the only one who noticed. I COULD be wrong, but I doubt it.

By Todd A

August 1, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

Nathan,you were making some good intial points in your post,but it kept going on,and on,and on,then I started drifting off.What was I saying again?Ih yeah…Go Dawgs.

By krath

August 1, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

Ok it’s official now.

Adam LaRoache is not allowed to come home with the team. We leave him on the road and he can take all his at bats there. If he were to stay on the road for every game, he might be Keith Hernandez.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

Woof! Woof! Woof!

By krath

August 1, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

Betemit homered and drove in two in the Dodgers game.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

Krath, keeping Adam on the road would make him a homophobe and a misogynist? :-)

By nathan

August 1, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

The Grinch, maybe you are right, maybe you’re not. Maybe Giles gets a lot more fastballs to hit with Aybar ahead of him (like he did with Furcal)

Either way, it shouldn’t make his approach any different at the plate. JS and Bobby were adamant in stating they didn’t want him to do anything different at the plate. I normally think the statement I’m about to make is ridiculous, but I’ll make it anyhow, because in this instance it applies.

A leadoff hitter is guaranteed to lead off only once in a game. Normally I think that’s just stupid to say that. I think a leadoff hitter should be called a “table setter” instead of the leadoff hitter. His job should be to GET ON BASE ANY WAY POSSIBLE FOR THE RBI GUYS TO KNOCK THEM IN! How is his job any different than that from the two hole? It’s not like Bobby gives the steal sign very often much less a hit and run. So wouldn’t Giles job still be to get on base if he’s batting in the 2-hole. That’s not now considered an RBI position in the NL, is it?

That’s my thought. It still doesn’t explaing his sudden “cap” of warning track power that he has, does it.

Plus you’re wrong, he did publicly “complain” or make comments about not liking his spot in the order. So don’t act like he’s been such a good sport about it. He didn’t complain when he got called up for good from the minors to bat leadoff, did he? Why was it OK for him then? At that point in his minor league career, he was a number 3 hitter (big RBI guy) in the lineup. But I didn’t hear him say “hey, I’m an RBI guy, this leadoff spot’s not for me” back then.

Just like Andruw, I’m not saying trade him because he “sucks”. I’m saying trade him, because our payroll is limited, and he happens to play a position that we have plenty of replacements readily available for a lot less money. It’s purely business with me. I’M TIRED OF HAVING A CRAPPY PITCHING STAFF!

By krath

August 1, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

Damn Grinch you’re right! I didn’t really think that Adam was that insecure about his home-bat masculinity that he is indeed homophobic! Now the misogynist part….hmmm.

By Bob, journalist

August 1, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

Though sometimes in the fog, he is usually on this Blog … so nick nack paddy whack and somebody please throw the boy a bone.

By nathan

August 1, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Sorry to ramble Todd A.

I just gotta vent once in a while.

(with me, it seems like it’s more often than that! LOL)

By old timer

August 1, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

Nathan, you are right. The Braves for the last 5 ykears haven’t had the best team in the playoffs. But that doesn’t mean they could not have won a World Series or two during that time. The best team doesn’t always win it all, doesn’t even usually win it all. Remember Seattle a few years ago? Won about 150 games. Didn’t even get to the World Series, much less win it. Since the Braves didn’t win in any of the last five years, you can say what you have said. But that’s just hindsight. Anyone can do that. I’d rather be in the playoffs and have a shot at winning. Heck, even this team we have now, flawed as it is, if it somehow makes the playoffs, could get hot and win three straight series. So I’m saying, we didn’t win the past five years with teams that weren’t as good as some in the playoffs, but we could have. It isn’t a matter of being built for this or that. Naturally, any good team will beat bad teams more often than they will beat other good teams. So I guess it might make it look that way.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 08:45 PM | Link to this

3 for 4 tonight (so far) with 3 doubles. Anyone care to argue?

By Calvin

August 1, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

It’s amazing, Grinch, how one spot in a batting order has an effect on a player. Amazing…

By Bob, journalist

August 1, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this

Thanks Old Timer!

By MBATL

August 1, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

Nathan, you know baseball, and I like reading your posts. But you’re a classic “hindsight is 20/20” armchair GM.

The Braves have never been built to win the postseason? Who has? Aside from the great Yankee teams of the late ‘90’s, no one has been consistently built to win in the PS. I guarantee you that every team in the NL has been built to win 95 games and a division title, to get IN to the playoffs, not to win a 5 or 7 game series.

The Chisox won it all last year, but hadn’t been to the playoffs for a decade before that, I don’t think (haven’t researched this, so forgive me if I’m wrong). And they’ll be lucky to make it this year. But I know you probably hold the Chisox up as the model that the Braves should aspire to.

The Tigers look damm good this year, thanks to a ridiculous trade they made, but they haven’t won anything yet. And it’s year one for their dynasty. We’ll see.

If there was some formula for this, we’d have more repeat champions… but look back… we don’t. Take away the Yanks in the ’90s’, and what team has figured this thing out?

All the drama surrounding losing Maddux and Glavine: we got somthing like 25 wins out of Ortiz in 2 years, and dumped him before he lost it; we got a bunch of wins out of J. Wright, and dumped him. We made great deals for Hampton and Hudson, but have been burned to some extent on those deals. Stuff happens.

btw, on the subject of trading AJ, I do agree with you.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

Nathan, I didn’t catch his negative comments; my bad. And I also happen to agree with your logic about the difference in the 1 and 2 hole not being that big a deal. I just don’t think this is about logic, it’s about a comfort zone he’s obviously not in with hitting leadoff and just as obviously IS in hitting #2. Just look at him. Plus, I think we should trade him too for the same reasons you mentioned, I just got mad at people saying “He Sucks” when he obviously doesn’t when in his natural position.

By nathan

August 1, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

I hear ya old timer

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not as bitter as some of the bloggers who are actually “mad” that we haven’t won the WS more often.

For years, I used to stick up for the Braves in arguments with my friends that are fans of other (lesser) teams. I’d say stuff like “I’d rather watch good baseball, for 6 months every year, and lose in the playoffs, than win the WS and have 10 straight horrible seasons (Twins 1991-2001, I live up north - lotta twins fans in my area). But having said that, I don’t neccessarily think you have to win to play “good baseball”. I can handle watching a losing team, if the play the game right, do the little things and don’t shoot themselves in the feet on a nightly basis. Even when this team went on their recent hot stretch, it was not “good baseball”. There was a lot of HR’s (a staple of Bobby Ball 101), HORRIBLE pitching, shaky defense, and still a lot of Strike Outs.

That’s all I’m getting at. Do I think the Braves could put a respectible team on the field with out Andruw or Chipper? YES, I do. Would that team win as many games? I’m not sure, but it sure is possible. Some players may play bigger roles on the team, some players make bigger salaries than others. But nobody, I mean nobody (including Andruw and Chipper and Smoltz) are BIGGER THAN THE TEAM ITSELF!

Last time I checked, it was still a team sport. Not too many teams, going to the playoffs, much less winning playoff series with 1 good starting pitcher. Maybe the Pirates circa 1992 couldv’e done that with Tim Wakefield!!! LOL

But face reality people, Smoltz all by himself is not enough.

By MBATL

August 1, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

that’s 36 wins in 2 years from Ortiz, btw…

By Glass Half Full

August 1, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t it be funny if fans of the Pirates, D-Rays, or Royals went on an opposing team’s blog and trash-talked? God, that would be refreshing.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this

Ain’t it, though, Calvin. Makes little sense, but results are results. Krath, I was refferring to Hernandez’ recent disparaging remarks about women and gays that got him into troublte in the broadcast booth.

By Todd A

August 1, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this

Nathan,you are a true die hard fan.No need to apologize.Just that my attention span can’t handle anything over 50 words at a time.

By Glass Half Full

August 1, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

Let’s say Giles goes on a tear in the #2 spot these next 2 weeks. What are the odds he’ll be back leading off when Chipper returns? 99% maybe.

By Glass Half Full

August 1, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this

Sharpless is not the kind of name I’d want for a pitcher…especially a reliever.

By supergrass

August 1, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

FrancoeurWALKS august off to a good start :)

By nathan

August 1, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

MBATL

Of course I see 20/20 hindsight. But whether you believe me or not, I was NEVER FOR trading for Denny Neagle (AKA: Tom Glavine’s twin brother - we had the original, why did we need a cheap imitation?)

But I hear ya! But as far as the nobody “being built to win in the playoffs” comment, I couldn’t disagree more with you. THE 1997 Marlins were built specifically to beat the BRAVES! Which they did in the regular season and then did in the playoffs. Once they got past us, they were home free. (and they almost choked to the Indians) But make no mistake about it that team was built to win in the playoffs, and would’ve continued to do so if Wayne Huizenga (sp?) decided to break it up before they could reel off some division titles. Plus there are many other teams that are “close” at the deadline, that make the neccessary moves to put them over the hump. Look what the Mets did yesterday - they were already going to sleepwalk their way to the division title and the post season - but they made moves yesterday to improve their chances in post season. Just like JS did in 1995 with Devereaux and Polonia - small, seemingliy meaningless moves that will pay off - I guarantee it!

Where in most years, JS just says stuf like “I like the way this team is constructed” or “well, when we get so and so back, it’s gonna be like adding a big name players through free agency or trade”

THAT’S THE DUMBEST THING I’VE EVER HEARD. Mark my words, if he hasn’t said it already, he will say it about Hampton returning next year! Even though we don’t even know if the guy will be worth a damn! But just like with Reitsma, JS will assume he’s gonna be the answer, we’re looking for.

The Grinch

You are absolutely right about the way Giles looks in the 2-hole vs. the leadoff spot. And I couldn’t agree with you more about it being Bobby’s fault. Renteria and Giles are probably the best 2-hole hitters in the league and we have both of them. So how come Bobby didn’t at least give it the old college try with Renteria batting leadoff and Giles hitting 2nd? Stubborness, I guess!

By MurphyRules

August 1, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

God Pete Orr sucks! Can’t we bring up Prado to replace him?

By supergrass

August 1, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

P. Orr pinchhit for J. Smoltz , is coxie crazy?

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

I love Bobby as much as anyone, but his stubborness really confuses me sometimes. Would someone please explain to me why “P”ete Orr was pinch hitting for Smoltz with 2 outs and the bases loaded? That’s an important situation; wouldn’t you want to have the better hitter at the plate?

By Carolina Lady

August 1, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

cousin jimmy, did you get the info I sent last evening? Lew, I’m working on yours! Nathan, you had one of the best lines earlier: you just kept typing and suddenly it’s 6 days later and you’re still typing. Funny! :-))

By hk

August 1, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

… Dodgers up 9-4 on Reds in the 7th …

By nathan

August 1, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

MBATL

Jason Marquis is 12-8 with a 5.67 ERA this year. I don’t care about WINS from a pitcher. Granted, it is their job to keep his team in the game and give the team a chance to win. So the W’s have to count for somthin. But ERA says a hell of a lot more to me than Wins. If all you count is wins, then Smoltz is having a TERRIBLE year for an ACE. Would that be a fair assessment? I didn’t think so!

Anyhow, here are Ortiz’s stats from his time with the Braves:

In 2003 his ERA was 3.82 - That’s actually not as bad as I remember it being. But there is good reason why he didn’t win the Cy Young with 21 wins. To win 21 games while almost allowing 4 runs a game, you gotta have some run support - and/or a good bullpen, and if memory serves me correct, our bullpen wasn’t that bad that year.

In 2004 his ERA was 4.13 - Again not all that bad, but he did give up 112 BB’s and 197 hits in 204 innings. Hardly ACE material. He was only about 75 less walks away from being dominating. And again, if mermory serves me correctly, it was his walks that KILLED him/us in the playoffs.

I’m probably gonna get lynched for saying this, but I’m such a firm believer in ERA over wins, that I, at the time, and still today believe that Kevin Brown deserved the Cy Young over Smoltz in 1996. But that’s just me. Smoltz did have 24 wins and that’s pretty unheard of. But it sure wasn’t Kevin Brown’s fault his team didn’t hit enough for him to get 24 wins. Was it?

Anyhow, it’s been fun “debating” with all of you tonight. Time to get the kids to bed and watch some flicks.

Goodnight all!

By Bob, journalist

August 1, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

Nathan, with all your if, woulda couldas … it’s a shame you’re not a lyricist, there has to be a song in there somewhere.

Methinks that you, like me, would argue with a fencepost.

Designing your team to win in the playoffs is like players with tremendous speed … it does them little good if they can’t get to first.

By Todd A

August 1, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this

I never understood the Neagle trade either.We needed bench and bullpen help for the stretch run,not a # 4 starter.We already had the division won.Not getting a reliever came back to bite the Braves in the @$$ in game 4 of the WS aginst the Yanks.We didn’t have any depth in middle relief for the postseason.We had no one to bridge the gap between the starter and Wohlers besides Bielecki.

Neagle was unable to hold a 6-0 lead and had to come out early.Beilecki was virtually unhittable for 2 innings;then,Cox brought in Wohlers in the 8th inning…the rest is history.Braves lose their swagger,and the Team of the 90’s mantra to the Yankees in one swing of the bat from Leyritz.To add insult to injury,trading for Denny cost us the best pitching prospect we’ve drafted in the Schuerholz era (Jason Schmidt).

By Todd A

August 1, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

Rent-an-error.

By supergrass

August 1, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

thats nice- renteria goes 0-5 and commits a critical error in the bottom of the 9th, hope it doesnt comeback to haunt

By nathan

August 1, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

UH-OH!

By MurphyRules

August 1, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

Sheewwwwwww!!!!

By nathan

August 1, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this

sorry - I thought the game was “over” before, so I’m back for a while.

BTW - speaking of worthless JS mid-season pickups. How the hell is Jose Hernandez still employed? He was washed up years ago.

Just a thought.

Good job, Wickman. (Kolb - er- I mean Reitsma, or Sosa, or any other meltdown reliever would’ve caved in the 9th with the error and the “bad hop” off of the bag. Nothing replaces veteran experience. Other than young talent! LOL

Good night everybody.

By MurphyRules

August 1, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

By the way, anyone who rips on Renteria is an absolute putz who needs to move back to New York and root for the Mets and Yankees.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

I’m impressed with Wickman. A lesser man would’ve been rattled in such a situation. He also made a pretty good defensive play, for a big boy. And, there’s nothing quite like the camera catching him sitiing that massive wad of chew into his hand right after high-fiving McCann. Did anyone get that in HD? Also, did y’all see that Texas Pete commercial in between innings? They got HoRam’s only strikeout of the season on tape! :-)

By Vol

August 1, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

Maybe this bullpen is going to be pretty good. I am around Indians fans at work everyday and this is what they said Wickman does. He always makes things a little more interesting than they should be, but he’s a grinder and they liked him.

Looks like the Reds will lose.

By Beachcomber

August 1, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

JS has done his job (albeit about five months later than he should have). We are now a 6-7 innning team with our vastly improved pen. Now the onus is squarely on all our starters not named Smoltz to “cowboy up” and keep us in games for the first six.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this

“Spitting;” excuse me. ‘night, Nathan. Journalist Bob, that almost sounded like a knock on “P” player Orr!

By Bob

August 1, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

Lets see, Renteria has been by far the steadiest Brave all year and someone is now going to make smart a*s remarks about that error. That is pretty pathetic. The guy has been light years better than the guy who left for Hollywood. Was nice to see the bullpen do a good job despite the miscue and the bad hop hit.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 1, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

I’ll give Wickman some slack. This was the first time he pitched in a week. So, I will chalk it up to rust even though it appeared he should have never been in the position to give up the run but because of the error he was.

By the way I think calling Edgar “Rent-A-Error” was a little harsh. He makes mistakes. Where would this team be without him? Oh yeah, definitely in last place!

Way to go Braves! Lets take the next two.

By the way is it just me or does LaRoche hit better on the road than at home? Maybe its because he doesn’t have people booing him, calling him LaDouche, and ready to pounce on every mistake.

I tell you what. For some of you will be a bad taste of crow if the proposed I trade I had above for LaRoche to the Yankees was to ever come to fruition. Him in that park with that ridiculously short porch in right field. Oh yeah, an easy 35HR a year.

An to Old Timer, I didn’t just say 15-20HR .270 avg hitters I also said guys who have at least a .360OBP.

I’m not saying you need a team full of speedsters but speed does help. Think back to the Braves of ‘91, ‘92, and ‘93. Remember how they would scrape together run after run with Nixon and Deion at the top of the order.

By hk

August 1, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this

… Cubs up on Arizona 9-2 in the 5th …

… if all goes well, Braves will be 5 1/2 back of Cincy, 4 1/2 back of Arizona…

By krath

August 1, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

If that ninth inning had happened before Wickman arrived, the Braves would be sitting in the clubhouse after a loss. The error on Edgar, then the bad break on the ball that hit the bag at third and boom!!! Whoever was pitching for the Braves would have panicked and grooved about 3 pitches in a row.

Wickman just pulled his big a*s back up on the mound….puffed hard a couple of times and settled down and got the final out.

By Vol

August 1, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

You go on a 3 game streak and you can pass about 6 teams in the wild card standings. 3 game losing streak and you just fall right along with the rest of them.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

That was very gracious of you to cut Wickman some slack, Robert. I’m sure he appreciates it. :-)

By David from Athens, ALA

August 1, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

Marlins beat Wagner, bottom of 9th on 2run HR … Fish are going to be tough in the battle for the wild card.

By Lew

August 1, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

Nathan-Earlier you asked if I would rather lose Andruw to free agency than to not get equal value for him. You bet. It would mean we had another Gold Glove, 35-40HR 120RBI season from him and a shot at a division title next year, which we wouldn’t have with Coco Crisp and Hansen the almost 5.00 ERA pitcher.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 1, 2006 10:05 PM | Link to this

We can thank in part Wilson Betemit for putting a whooping on the Dodgers. He went 2-5 with a HR. I know a lot of people are still ticked off about the trade. I have to say I wasn’t thrilled about it. However, we have to admit that tonight showed exactly why JS made the trade he made. Let’s be honest. If this game occurred two weeks ago, there was a 90% we would have lost it. Isn’t thar right?! Baez comes in and pitches a great 8th inning and then Wickman gets out of trouble in the 9th. Trouble, by the way, was not really of his doing since the inning would have been over if Renteria had made the play. Lord knows if that had been Sosa, Hernandez would have hit a walk off HR and that would have been it. With Baez and Wickman we may have the best 8th-9th inning combo in the National League this side of the Padres especally now that the Mets are without Sanchez.

C’mon admit bloggers. You had a little smile on your face when Wickman got that popup and the game ended. We have a bullpen! I think I may cry.

Now, if the starters can just hold up their end of the bargain like Smoltz did tonight.

Horacio you’re on stage next. Don’t blow it, pal. And Hudson you have a business man’s special on Thursday. You can’t use the excuse of the bullpen any longer, guys. Its time to step up!

By Mike from the coast

August 1, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

I just got on and didn’t have time to read all the blogs, but saw several about Giles hitting in the 2nd spot tonight. I really don’t think it has that much to do about his hitting. He still has Renteria hitting behind him. What brought about his success tonight was something myself and others have harped on a lot lately. He went to RIGHT Field on at least two of the doubles, didn’t see the third. He has a beautiful stroke to right center field. Didn’t see much effort at all to do that when he was batting leadoff.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 1, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

You know the Cubs are playing quite well lately. It would be very beneficial to the Braves for them to continue doing so (except when they come to Atlanta). If they keep playing well and beating up on their central rivals (ie. Reds, Brewers, and Astros), then they could get them out the way for us and that would be three less teams we would have to worry about.

By hk

August 1, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

… Brave reliever ERA down to 4.66 … doesn’t sound like much, but lowest since April … has averaged 3.38 since 5.37 high point in mid May … starter ERA averaged 5.42 same period, currently at 4.82 …

By Lew

August 1, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

He hit the third double off of the right center field wall, just like the first. He closed his stance.

By David from Athens, ALA

August 1, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

BTW, Sosa just came in got the Phillies out (base loaded) … deep fly to left!!!

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

I’m about to close my teeth on a cheeseburger. Check with y’all in a bit.

By The Grinch

August 1, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this

Man, the Phillies must really suck…

By hk

August 1, 2006 10:36 PM | Link to this

… final Dodgers 10 Cincy 4 … Betemit 5 for 9, double, homer, 2 rbi first two games … ex Braves got 11 of LA’s 17 hits, old Macon Braves buddies Furcy and Bet had 6 rbi’s between them tonight ..

By Mike from the coast

August 1, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

Yeah Lew, should have said I saw the first and third double, didn’t see the second, nodded off, LOL. How many runs might he have scored in the leadoff spot with that kind of approach. You had Renteria batting second who likes to go to right anyway. Oh well, better late than never. He tried to pull the ball in his last at bat and grounded out to short.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 1, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this

As far as Sosa goes getting the Philies out with the bases loaded, in the words of Wesley Snipes from White Men Can’t Jump, “Even the sun shines on a dog’s a** someday.”

By JJMB

August 1, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this

Well heck, crappy old dysfuntional Florida managed to beat the Muts. Will wonders ever cease?

By TennesseePaul

August 1, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

DonC: Sorry it took so long… Davies and James. Yes, I think they could be something special. Those two will have to put effort into it just like every good pitcher does. My thinking this isn’t without reason. I’m not foolish enough to project out rookie season stats throughout a career. James’ minor league stats were brilliant. But again I’m not willing to project those out either. But it isn’t unfathomable that he could be in between the two, and that would be a good pitcher.

And as for Schmidt. I’m sorry. I don’t think that guys is more than an above average pitcher with a handful of good seasons under his belt. Trading him didn’t prevent the Braves from winning either. And, since Schmidt is praised as a great pitcher, look at his two years with the Braves. I know, those were his first two seasons. Not very good numbers at any rate. But on par with what Davies is doing. And below what James is doing. But let’s not even look at that, they were his rookie outings.
Let’s look at his career as a whole. He didn’t have an ERA under 4.00 until his 9th season in the majors. 9 season until he had a sub 4.00 ERA. 9. It wasn’t until his 8th season before he was more than 2 wins over .500 in a season. Even in that year his ERA was 4.50. If that is a great pitcher, then I think a little time is in order for Davies and James.

By nathan

August 1, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this

Lew

Your, missing the point. Not only would we gain prospects in a trade of Andruw. We would free up money for other free agents/trades for MORE pitching help than what would be aquired in a trade. I’m not saying what so ever that we would get “equal” value in return for Andruw in the way of immediate help. I’m saying we would get immediate “relief” of his salary which would allow help to be addressed elsewhere on the roster. Two different things, my man. Believe me. I get that if we trade him, the odds are that we don’t “replace” his numbers any time soon. But wouldn’t it be nice to “replace” at least 2 of our starters horrible numbers in the rotation. We won the division for 6 seasons without Andruws glove in CF. It could be done again with stellar pitching. Too bad Hudson isn’t the pitcher we thought we would be getting. Most of my comments would be a moot point if he was the ACE he was supposed to be. Him and Smoltz dominating and this offense would be enough to win the wildcard and make noise in post season. But since Smoltz is the only starter that has ANY consistancy, that’s not an option.

But I appreciate your honesty and opinion.

By nathan

August 2, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

Nice research and points on Schmidt’s stats, Paul. But, lets not forget he did spend half of a decade in Pittsburg. So see my ealier posts about W/L records based on your surroundings. But there’s no denying his ERA has never been that great on a consistant basis. But he’s the kind of pitcher that can and has dominated a post season series with his stuff. I guess it’s pick your poison. Inconsistant, but dominating stuff (Schmidt, Marquis etc..) or consistantly good, but not dominating stuff (Maddux, Glavine etc…)

Please note that I realize Maddux and Glavine both could be dominating at times. And were with lesser teams. They ate hackers for lunch, day in and day out. But face it, when post season rolled around and good “hitters” that had a plan were facing them, they looked slightly above average at best. When you throw a lot of strikes and you rely on contact to get outs, (ground ball pitchers), bad things can happen (bloops, errors, bases loaded routine fly balls that end world series - when a strike out keeps your team alive! LOL), and usually these things happened to Maddux and Glavine. But hey they are both going to the HOF and I’m glad I got to watch most of Maddux’s and all of Glavines career on TBS. For that I’m thankfull. And will enjoy telling my sons about how great they were someday. I’ll just leave out the post season failures. :)

By gotigers72

August 2, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this

Smoltz pitches against the Reds on Sunday, but before that James and Shiell have to pitch against them in that bandbox park. Could be some high scoring games. Adam Dunn may hit one to Kentucky. Chucky and Shiell better learn how to keep the ball down and how to throw strikes before they pitch in that park. Go in there nibbling because you’re scared of throwing strikes, and it could be a short day.

By Lew

August 2, 2006 12:21 AM | Link to this

Nathan-You have to look at it like this. The problem this year was so many of our pitchers were either injured-Hampton, Davies, Boyer, Foster plus Ramirez was out a good bit. Even Chuck James and Thomson. This coming season we will have Smoltz (who if we had Wickman all year could quite possibly be 15-5 right now), Ramirez, Hampton, James and Davies. We might even have Hudson-who knows? Boyer and Foster should be back. Yates and Paronto are keepers. OK-pitching looks much improved right there. Now-Thomson, Reitsma,Remlinger, Sosa, and Jordan are gone. That gives us about $12 million, which will go a long way towards re-signing Baez and Wickman. Pitching problems all of a sudden don’t look so drastic any more, do they? Now if you were JS and it looked like you now have a shot at the division for 07, answer me this-do you have a better chance at winning with Andruw quite possibly giving a MVP or close to it performance, or do you go with someone like Crisp? The only reason I use Crisp for an example is that he was offered. All of the pitching prospects you want in return for Andruw were not offered! If I’m putting the team together I want Andruw, whose rights we own for next year. As far as losing him to free agency and not getting anything in return. First of all we do get a return-$15 million to spend on replacements in 08. When we let Maddux, Glavine , Javy, etc. go I didn’t hear anyone say Damn We didn’t get anyone in return-we just went and took the bucks and replaced them another way. When we got Sheffield and Drew we gave up players to rent them for that year (yeah, I know Shef played 2) and people complained because they were gone after we gave up players for them. That would not be the case with Andruw next year. We won’t be giving up anyone for his performance next year. You can’t replace that pottential performance with what is being offered for him.

By TennesseePaul

August 2, 2006 12:24 AM | Link to this

nathan: Cool. I appreciate the post. Some times folks just errupt like volcanoes. I put both W/L and ERA in there to cover basis. At any rate, I think it’s too early to make a career judgment call on James or Davies. Just wait and see.

But, I will say, there was one line in one of your earlier posts that I’m not sure I agree with. Something about great hitters hit great pitchers. I’ve always heard, Great Pitching Beats Great Hitting. It doesn’t always work that way, but I’d say the majority of the time it does. For that, I point to the “hot” streak we were on. As soon as we met up with Carpenter, we were silent. Also, the 1995 series. The Indians were sick. Second best pitching in the Majors. The best hitting in the Majors. The Braves 2nd or 3rd from the bottom in hitting in the Majors but by far the best pitching team. We won in 6.

As to the Andruw Trading… I still think we can sign him. Boras is an @sshole, no doubt, but the market does a lot to determine the contract. Beltran is a prime example. Boras was seeking some huge, massive, ginormous contracts, and settled for something significantly smaller. (Smaller than what he sought, but still large). On top of that, Lee and Soriano are free agents, so they will set a market value this winter which will have some affect on Andruw’s value. At any rate, I think with the youth this team has, and the posibility of trades and so forth, it is possible. Smotlz won’t be here for ever, Chipper neither. Andruws contract can be worked around all of that and still afford us a lot of room for our other guys. But, who knows. I’ll hope we can keep him. I won’t stop hoping until I see him sleep away. It is my hope because I believe he will be in the Hall. I think Chipper has a shot as well, but we’ll see. I just want to see more Braves in the Hall. Our team in there is pretty small.
On that note, which team do you think Maddux will go in under? His best years were Brave years, but he’s spent about equal time with the Cubs. Also, Maddux may not have been a power pitcher, but back during his 4 straight Cy Young years, he was dominating. 1995 still blows me away. 19-2 1.63 ERA 10 complete games, 3 shutoutsand only 23 walks the whole year. I’ve read somewhere that Maddux’s ERA was over 2 runs less than the League average. Koffax was only about a run. This over boths best 5 season span. Maddux was amazing. He’d throw CG with only 80+ pitches! We had something special in that guy.
As to Cy Young awards… it’s a “W” award. The pitcher must have a respectable ERA (the ERA would be the tie breaker factor), but the wins are what gets the notice. Cy Youngs claim is his total wins (along with losses and descisions, and others monumental stats, but most notably the wins).

By flbravesgirl

August 2, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this

I’m pleased with what we’ve seen from Wickman too. He wasn’t fazed at all by the error or the weird bloop.

Guys, don’t complain too much about Turner South. I got stuck with the Pirate broadcasters on MLBExtraInnings tonight. They made Torborg and Rathbun sound like the most fascinating and enthusiastic broadcasters imaginable. Aside from being extremely dull, they spent 1 inning under the impression that our catcher was named “McCain”. I guess they didn’t pay any attention to the All-Star Game played in their home park?

By nathan

August 2, 2006 01:15 AM | Link to this

Paul

To me the saying in the post season should go “great POWER pitching beats good hitting”

Maddux and Glavine were finesse pitchers through and through, no doubt about it. Why do you think Avery and Smoltz had better post season success? Glavine and Maddux were both quoted many times as saying the guys that gave them trouble were the punch and judy hitters, contact hitters, hitters with a plan that stuck to it. In other words, they both would make Francoeur look silly 9 times out of 10! LOL!

As for your comment about the Indians team. Look at that lineup!

Lofton was on base enough - a contact hitter willing to bunt and take the ball the other way.

Visquel fell into the same category.

Manny Ramierez. If I’m not mistaking, that was his rookie year or 2nd season at most. He wasn’t even close to the complete hitter he is now! He was Hack n Jack all the way! The kind of hitters Maddux and Glavine thrive against. At that point in his career, he didn’t take the ball the other way very often.

Eddie Murray was a shell of his former self.

Albert Belle. He was a step above Ramirez. If I’m not mistaking, he adjusted to Maddux and took him deep to the opposite field in game 4 (or game 5, whichever was Maddux’s 2nd start)

Paul Sorrento? Are you kidding me?

Jim Thome takes the ball the other way now, not back then. Hack -n- Jack!

Baerga was a good hitter, but he hacked a lot too.

Tony Pena was about 75 years old then, wasn’t he?

Anyhow, you get my point. They were a great Power Hitting team, but not a great hitting team. They were the perfect team for the Braves to beat. I seriously doubt they beat the Mariners if they would have beat the Indians in the ALCS. Also, the Indians played in that little band box. If I remember right they all had pretty good averages, but it was their power and Lofton’s speed that carried them. Plus, they had some pretty good pitchers too. (Hersheiser, Martinex, Nagy). Have to add this too. They possibily had the only other “strategy challenged” manager that makes worse decisions than Cox does in the post season. Hargrove is TERRIBLE.

L8R dude, it’s been fun. Talk to y’all tomorrow.

By Head Coach

August 2, 2006 01:20 AM | Link to this

We beat the Pirates ! yay , I’m so excited now……lol . Does anybody realize that the Marlins have better pitching than the Braves ? Everybody who thinks the Marlins will win the wildcard raise your hand !

By nathan

August 2, 2006 01:26 AM | Link to this

I just went back and read your last post over again Paul.

I forgot to add to my last post that, yes, Maddux was ABSOLUTELY DOMINATING for that run from 1992 - 1995. SILLY GOOD!! We’ll never see that again, I don’t think. But other than one game against the Redsn (1995 - NLCS) and Game 1 of the 1995 WS, He failed in the post season. I suppose you can say he kept us in the game in game 1 of 1995 NLDS at Coors, but he sure didn’t dominate. And if not for Chipper, we lose that game and maybe the series - which probably was the toughest series of that whole post season! IMO.

Maddux and Glavine were around the strike zone way too much. They had a lot of bloop hits fall in. Is that bad luck, or a good job of making contact by the hitters? Smoltz never seems to have that problem, because he can (could) blow people away with the K’s when he had to.

That’s all I’m getting at, in no way shape or form am I calling them failures. They just seemed to get hit “harder” in the post season than they did over the first 162 games of the year!

By nathan

August 2, 2006 01:28 AM | Link to this

With you 100% Head Coach. Couldn’t agree more and I said the same thing about a week and a half ago.

By Tomahawkin

August 2, 2006 03:10 AM | Link to this

Man Nathan, Yooz got a good memory… I remember that sick a-s-s 95 Indian lineup the same way…

Did anyone see the mutts cut up in the Dugout tonite, That’s what I call passion and Playing the game for fun, even though they are overpaidand they lost the game, They are fun to watch, And 4 those of you who think I’m Jumping on the Mutts Bandwagon…Hell No…This Braves team however is boring to watch when they win, These guys Just doesn’t show any emotion at all, Win or Lose these guys are more worried about their tee times in the morning rather than anythang esle…

Gawd I miss Gant, Deion, and Justice, Those guys made fans want to come and see them, I think it was stated on the last blog that most of the die-hard people who grew up watching Dem Braves on TBS live elsewhere now, and most of the people who live in Atlanta now, are Transplant Yankee, and Mutts Fans

By Tomahawkin

August 2, 2006 03:18 AM | Link to this

Oh BTW Wickman Has been Clownin since he got here, I’d bet we’d be in First place had we got him in the offseason..

BTW Black Jack McDowell Sucks, Its the Curse of Mazzone that has cost Hudson his struggles, Leo wouldn’t put up wit that crap that Hudon is doing if he was still here, Hudson has been strugglin 4 two months, and McDowell has still not got any straightening up wit Huddy

Bring in Don Sutton, or Steve Stone next year as pitching coach…

By Head Coach

August 2, 2006 03:39 AM | Link to this

Agreed , Tomahawkin ! Leo would walk out to the mound and ask , what the bleepedy bleep bleep do you think your doing ? Your a major league pitcher , now throw the damn ball like you mean it or I’ll find somebody who will , are you getting my bleepedy bleep bleeping drift ??? That man had a way of putting the fear of God in a pitcher. Now granted he didnt talk that way to his veteran pitchers but the rookies were scared to death of him and they knew if they didnt pitch effectively Leo wouldn’t hesitate in doling out an a.s.s chewing.

By Tomahawkin

August 2, 2006 03:57 AM | Link to this

Headcoach, I remember, when Avery and Glavine would get into shouting matches wit Mazzone because he called them out on the mound, and see where they ended up, That doesn’t happen wit McDowell, that’s why the rotation is underachieving, he’s cuddling these guys, and look at Sosa, Then and Now, Nuff said about Mazzone…

By nathan

August 2, 2006 04:25 AM | Link to this

btw….his first name is roger. not the “jack” mcdowell that pitched for the white sox……

By Tomahawkin

August 2, 2006 04:31 AM | Link to this

I know That Nathan…? It just flows out easier, Dammit Dude you always, got to ruin everything, Naw I just messin wit ya, It sill sounds better as Black Jack, Because he sucks…

By Just the Koufax, Ma'am

August 2, 2006 04:31 AM | Link to this

As a faithful Dodger fan, I just wanted to come on this blog long enough to thank the Braves for giving us Wilson Betemit. It’s been fun watching his great play spark the Dodgers. How ironic is it going to be for you tomahawk choppers to watch as two ex-Braves, Betemit and Maddux, combine to boost the Dodgers and deny the Braves the wild card? It’s gonna hurt as bad as that R.J. Reynolds squeeze bunt that killed your chances in ‘83.

Thanks again! And go Pirates!

By Tomahawkin

August 2, 2006 04:38 AM | Link to this

And I It still sounds better as Black Jack, Because he sucks…

No offense, but also you will have to pardon me becuz I’ve had one toomany screwdrivers since I got off work from da depot…

No offens, I will still call him Black Jack, Becuz he ain’t cuttin it…I’d rather have Steve Stone or Sutton out there…

Would anyone think that Don Sutton Talk as much in the Dugout as he does on the air…I like listening to him, And I think Bobby would like it as well…

Thoughts, I’m the late cat tonite, So I will catch you guys tomorrow afternoon, No School, or Work, 4 Da Tomahawkin…

BTW, Does anyone know where I can find those those old Georgia Peach Tags with the Name TOMAHAWKIN on them, I used to love them tags when everyone in the “A” had Braves Fever

By Tomahawkin

August 2, 2006 04:43 AM | Link to this

Glad you call us Da Tomahawk Choppas, Because thats What Ludacris Reffered us to in his song “Georgia

Well Dude 83 was 1 year befo my time, I guess you have to go that far back to see the Dodgers whipping our a*s, how bout those mid 90’s division sweeps, Now Tell Dat…?

Not trying to talk shyt, but man Koufax Ma’am come here talking baseball instead of shyt…

BTW I think Maddux will go 5-3 the rest of the way, Derek Lowe However Sucks, I knew he was overrated in Boston, all part, thanks to ESPN 4 giving him so much press…

ESPN Sucks!

By Torre!Torre!Torre!

August 2, 2006 04:55 AM | Link to this

T-Hawk, you be needin’ some strong black coffee.

I remember that R.J. Reynolds game. Braves trailed the Dodgers by two games in mid-September and were leading them late in a Sunday series finale. Dodgers tied the game in the 8th, I think, and won it in the 9th on a perfect squeeze bunt by utility man R.J. Reynolds. Put the Braves three games back instead of one, and Braves never recovered.

Ballsy call by Tommy Lasorda, and it paid off in a division title. Torre never saw it coming.

I miss the Braves being in the same division with the Dodgers. That was a great rivalry there for a while.

By Hal

August 2, 2006 08:37 AM | Link to this

Just read Shawns post and 7 or 8 guys stealing 20 bases .My question is which 7 or 8 Larouche? MCcan? Renteria? Frenchy?Chipper?Thorman?Giles?

What your advocating is trading the whole damn team !!

If you want to do that the Marlins are a perfect model .Better get there GM to though

By KC

August 2, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

AGREED… Huddy is definitely the key.

If Huddy were to snap back into form tomorrow, we would win the wild card. And with a sharp Huddy to go along with Smoltz and Ramirez (as long as HoRam doesn’t have one of his periodic meltdown starts in the 1st round), we would have an excellent chance of doing some damage in October once we got there.

I said it yesterday, but it bears repeating…

• The offense is fine (especially if we can get Chipper healthy).

• The bullpen is fine now.

• Smoltz is Smoltz

• HoRam will win 6-9 more games between now and the end of the season. (He’s almost completely shut down the opposition in 8 of 11 starts since his return from the DL in May).

• I even think the bottom of our rotation will be fine once Davies gets back, which should happen soon. *(Sunday was the first time C.James has failed to at least keep the Braves in a ballgame, and that’s all you really ask of a 4th/5th starter… “keep us in the game”).

Huddy’s the answer. If Tim Hudson is on his game, and the Braves are healthy (especially Chipper), the Braves have the best team in the NL. With a sharp Hudson, we are significantly better than the Reds or any other team in the WC race. If Huddy is Huddy, we’ll get it done. If not…

By geauxbraves2000

August 2, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

Maybe this has been said, maybe not, but with a different looking bullpen, with different results so far, maybe the starters will pick it up. Maybe the starters were trying to be perfect knowing the other teams were salavating waiting for the pen to come in. Now they can pitch, knowing they can be bailed out if necessary.

Good game last night Braves, was nice to see no drama in the 8th. Wow, it’s been a while. The 9th was interesting, but Wick was not intimated.

Geaux Braves!!

By hk

August 2, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

… this just in ..

“NEW DELHI - In an effort to keep monkeys out of the New Delhi subways, authorities have called in one of the few animals known to scare the creatures — a fierce-looking primate called the langur, the Hindustan Times newspaper reported Wednesday”

… this could well be the answer :))

By Lew

August 2, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Just read on the Braves’ website-Andruw’s reaction to the trade rumors. He said basically he would listen, but the article ended with him sayin “This might be my last contract.” Now whether he was talking about his current contract or one he would sign next year is unclear. He has said in the past he would retire rather than leave the Braves. Who know? Don’t you just love the drama?

By KC

August 2, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

Lew:

I would like to believe those “I don’t want to play for anybody but the Braves” comments… but I guess I’m a little jaded. To Andruw’s credit, he put Scott Boras in his place several years ago and signed the contract he wanted to sign (not the one Boras or the Players union wanted him to sign), to stay in Atlanta. Maybe he’ll do whatever it takes this time around to stay here as well.

I just remember Gary Sheffield talking about how he and his wife literally cried tears of joy when they found out he’d been traded to Atlanta. But boy those tears sure did dry up fast when the Yankees offered him an extra 2 million a year.

A player’s true desire to stay with a team is only proven at contract time. Again, to his credit, he’s done it before. We’ll just have to wait and see if he’ll accept a 3-4 year 13.5 million-per-year deal, or if he’ll decide to take the Yankees, Mets or Dodgers 6 year “15-16 per” offers. Hope he stays, but we’ll just have to wait and see.

By Blue Worms

August 2, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

we have jernalis jimy smith. demands will follow.

By CharlotteDave

August 2, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this

How could anybody say this Brave’s team doesn’t play with passion or have fun? Every time a guy does anything he practically gets beat up in the dugout, and you often see guys laughing and joking around. In fact, Marcus Giles is like a two year old the way he clowns around in the dugout. It’s a fun team, a young team. On the other hand, it’s impossible to have fun and show a lot of passion when you’re getting your brains beaten out, like the Braves did this weekend or in the month of June.

By Yuggh

August 2, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

I miss DOB. Guy’s blogs are horrible. When is DOB coming back?

By Lew

August 2, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

KC-I’ve always wondered about why people saw that much of a difference between$13 million and $16 million. I always figured that you’re rich either way. I had one major leaguer tell me “The difference is $3 million. Would you turn it down?” Of course, this was a player who had yet to make his millions. Andruw is one player that actuaslly did sign for much less than he could have gotten elsewhere. Remember, his last contract was signed when players were getting ARod and Manny being Manny money. Only time will tell. I would imagine the home town discount would depend on how long BC is going to hang around. Check out my post from 12:24 this morning for my thoughts on trading him. Like you say, though, we’ll just have to let it play out. I am hopeful, however.

By Dog the Bounty Hunter

August 2, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

Lew, how about Yoga?

By steve

August 2, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

I agree totally, Tim Hudson’s performance down the stretch determines the Braves’ fate. Baez and Wickman allow the other Braves relievers to take a role that suits them better, and the offense will perform better now that Giles is in the 2 hole. Braves win WC in the last week of the season.

Looking ahead to next year… 1. Aybar/player acquired in a trade for Giles 2. Renteria 3. Chipper (who, by the way, is 2nd in hitting in the NL) 4.Andruw 5. McCann 6. Frenchy 7. LaRoche (having a career year) 8. New Left fielder (JS WILL make a trade, or Aybar in left) Rotation: 1. Smoltz 2. Huddy (rebounding to a 15+ win season) 3. Hampton (remember last year when his ERA was under 3?) 4. HoRam (a good, good #4 starter) 5. James (after trading Davies) Definitely one of the best rotations around IF, if, they pitch to potential.

By steve

August 3, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

By the way, last night…. HoRam 6 2/3 IP, 5H, 2 ER 4K. Another quality start.

By alex stuard

August 3, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

Does anybody remember Horacio’s start two years ago against the D-train? Don’t be to rough on the poor guy.

By David

August 4, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

I’m so glad that Andrew has been put on waivers. He appears as though he doesn’t care if the Braves win or lose. His effort in the field this year has been lackluster at best. I would trade Andrew Jones—but no one out there is stupid enough to want him. If the Braves braintrust cannot trade him, I’d say just flat out give him his unconditional release and don’t invite him back to spring training. His best days are behind him. He has become more of a liability than an asset. Before I release him though, I would try to propose a trade that would send him to the Boston Red Sox in return for David Ortiz. If that trade doesn’t work, then give him the old heave ho and give him his unconditional release.

By alan from Atlanta GA.

August 4, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

Hi I realize that there is some resentmant to Andruw Jones’ lack of enthusiasm, but I can’t remember when he wasn’t like that. If the Braves trade away Jones, they will make the Pittsburgh Pirates really look good. I can only say the BOYCOTT THE BRAVES. I will not spend another dollar to see them without at least one great player.