AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > July > 30 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USCurtain comes down on disappointing Sosa
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The curtain came down today to bring a merciful end to the Jorge Sosa era.
Designated for assignment to clear a spot for new setup man Danys Baez, which came as no surprise to anyone paying attention. It was either Sosa or Jason Shiell who had to go, and the Braves need Shiell to start a game next weekend.
So, Sosa is done as a Brave. We hardly knew you, Jorge.
No, really, we hardly knew him.
Though he spoke English well enough to carry on one-on-one conversations and express himself in interviews, Sosa used the language barrier as an excuse to routinely decline to speak after games.
Sometimes he declined to speak when a translator was available. Of course, this was after games this season.
Sosa had no problem being interviewed after his starts last season, when he went 13-3 with a 2.55 ERA, a fall-from-the-sky success story and a big reason the Braves won their 14th consecutive division title.
This year? He was a $2.2 million disaster. He leaves with a 3-10 record and 5.46 ERA and 3-for-6 saves in 26 games, including 13 starts. He allowed a .298 opponents’ average and .355 OBP, and a whopping 20 homers.
He lost his starting job in June, lost the closer job a few weeks ago, lost his entire job Sunday.
Appropriately enough, Sosa waved off a couple of us writers when we approached him this morning in the clubhouse, after the announcement was made. He didn’t want to talk. He mentioned “later,” which might or might not have meant he’d talk later.
Yeah, whatever.
The Braves will put him on waivers and either trade or release him.
Meanwhile ….
The other new guy, Willy Aybar, is in the lineup hitting leadoff today and playing third base, where he’ll probably be for the next two weeks until Chipper Jones returns from the DL. He’s a smallish guy, looks fast, but you’d never suspect he has the power numbers that he’s had in the minors.
Aybar was hitting .250 with a .356 OBP, 12 doubles, three homers and 22 RBIs in 128 at-bats for the Dodgers, and only .219 with a .328 OBP and five errors in his past 33 games.
The scouting reports on him from Baseball America and other services in recent years had him projected as a future starter for the Dodgers when he was a prospect in their organization before last season, but his defense hasn’t yet lived up to his skill level. He plays third and second, but not shortstop.
Schuerholz told me this morning that Braves scouts gave glowing reports on the kid, so we’ll see. He hit 315 with 10 homers and 41 RBIs at Class AAA Las Vegas to start the season, but hit there almost exclusively during his successful callup last year.
In 83 at-bats as leadoff man in 2005 for L.A., he hit .337 with eight doubles, a homer, 17 walks and a .455 on-base percentage.
I think it’s worth noting, he’s 23. Wilson Betemit is 26.
As good as Betemit has been these past two seasons with the Braves, I’m reminded of what we were saying about him entering spring training 2005.
Remember? He was out of options and the question was whether the Braves could even afford to carry him because he looked like he’d be a wasted roster spot if they did, and no team wanted to trade for him. The Braves tussled with it.
Remember that? Then he had a good spring, earned a spot and hit .305 as a 25-year-old rookie.
When Betemit was 23, he was in the middle of his second of his three seasons at Triple-A Richmond in 2003. He .262 with 13 triples, eight homers, 65 RBIs, 115 strikeouts in 478 at-bats that season. Oh, and he made 28 errors. TWENTY-EIGHT.
He got thicker, stronger, slower, and the next season hit .278 at Richmond with two triples, 13 homers, 59 RBIs and 99 strikeouts in 356 at-bats before his first callup with the Braves. He hit .170 (8-for-47) with no extra-base hits in 22 games for the Braves that season, when he was 24.
I just bring this up to remind folks that Betemit was shaping up to be a bust at 23, having lost his top-prospect status. And in the past two years, he turned into a pretty good player.
OK, that’s it. Time to watch the Braves try to salvage a series that threatens to erase all the momentum they gained during their recent 15-6 surge and seven-game winning streak, if that momentum isn’t already gone.
Later.
Oh, wait, almost forgot to throw in a quick review of the Van Hunt performance at Smith’s Olde Bar last night. Now, I’m gonna assume most of you’ve never heard of this guy (correct me if I’m wrong).
I’m telling you, this guy is the real deal, a fantastic performer who’s like this live-wire hybrid of Prince, Sly Stone and Curtis Mayfield, with healthy doses of little Hendrix, James Brown and Rick James.
He’s the closest thing to early Prince that I’ve heard (I saw the Prince Purple Rain tour in ‘83 or ‘84, and that’s what it reminded me of), but on certain other slower numbers it’s like he’s channeling Mayfield. Then he’ll play straight-forward rock/funk, or punk/funk, as the great Rick James called it.
Anyway, you should’ve been there. Really, really good stuff, and from what I understand he lives in Atlanta. He’s got two major-label CDs and they’re both outstanding, the latest being “On the Jungle Floor.” Get it, and or download it and let me know what you think.
Ryan Adams tonight. Anybody go last night? Am I in for a good show? And does anybody have a Tom Waits ticket they want to sell me? Otherwise, your correspondent is going to be trying to scalp one outside the Tabernacle on Tuesday night.
Comments
By Chop Chop
July 30, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this
3-0 Mets.
An inauspicious start, I’d say.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
oh, the humanity! down by two before the journalist could make this post. lew, jimmy smith has received no e-mail. just checked again. journalist is anxious to see lew’s work. oh, the humanity! before journalist could send this post they have scored again. oh, the humanity! why isn’t aybar catching these batted balls?
By SUPERGRASS
July 30, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
HOO-RAY!WITH SOSA gone, less chance of me throwing something at the tv after every homerun he gives up
By SUPERGRASS
July 30, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
met home runs in 1st inn of each game in the series- its like A ball pitching vs major league batters
By Mark
July 30, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
So much for trying to salvage the series. Already in a 3-0 hole with a couple more runners on. This series has brought back painful memories to the beginning of the season when the Braves seemingly started every game with a deficit. What is up with the home struggles?
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
oh, the humanity! 3 runs on 4 hits. will this first inning never end? willie randolph is managing another gem.
By Calvin
July 30, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
I’m just wondering when the Braves will get a decent outing from their starters not named Smoltz.
By Don
July 30, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
Dave, congratulations for acknowledging that Betemit, against all odds from 2-3 years ago, turned into a pretty good player. That’s the best thing I’ve ever seen you say about him. He became a pretty good cheap player who could fill in capably at 3 infield positions and showed some signs to all but the blind of potentially becoming even more than that. So we trade him for a 60 day rental relief pitcher who has been terrible this year and a guy who might have a 25% chance of becoming the next Wilson Betemit, except he won’t be able to play short. And by your analogy, at a time when it was so important for us to get another relief pitcher because we’re really right in the middle of the wild card race, we’re plugging in the 2003 Wilson Betemit to play 3rd base everyday.
Makes sense to me.
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this
LaRouche still sucks.
Source: Crisp in trade talks By Michael Silverman Boston Herald Sports Reporter
Saturday, July 29, 2006 - Updated: 10:04 AM EST
Reading online that the Red Sox are looking for a starter and are willing to trade Crisp:
In order to add another starter to the rotation for the remainder of this season and possibly beyond, the Red Sox are making two-thirds of their starting outfield - center fielder Coco Crisp and right fielder Trot Nixon - available to other teams while also making it clear that young pitchers Jonathan Papelbon, Jon Lester, Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen are not going anywhere.
Nixon’s name has been part of the rumor mill for some time this summer, which, given that he is eligible for free agency at the end of the season, comes as no big surprise with Monday’s non-waivers trading deadline fast approaching. Crisp is somewhat of a different story. A major league source yesterday said the Red Sox had recently made a concrete offer that included Crisp to another team for a starter. Crisp’s availability can be read any number of ways. The 26-year-old is having a mildly disappointing season so far - .275 batting average and 11 stolen bases after his 2-for-4 effort in an 8-3 loss to the Los Angeles Angels last night - but his upside is still considered quite high. Cost control is another factor that would make him attractive, considering that he and the Red Sox agreed this April to a three-year contract extension worth $15.5 million, plus an $8 million option for 2010. Backup outfielder Wily Mo Pena is also believed to be on the list of players the Red Sox are making available. Included among the starters the Sox might be interested in acquiring are Philadelphia’s Jon Lieber and Cory Lidle, Washington’s Livan Hernandez and Baltimore’s Rodrigo Lopez. Manager Terry Francona said that although he could not and should not speak for general manager Theo Epstein, no one should worry about the Red Sox dealing away any of their young and promising pitching talent. “I can’t imagine that happening,” Francona said. “I imagine (Epstein) has gotten tons of calls about those guys, if he hasn’t, that’s crazy, but I can’t see something like that happening. If someone called him and offered him half the All-Star team, I guess he’d have to think about that. We value them very highly.”
By kevin
July 30, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this
woohoo 3-0! this series brings back bad memories of June…throw in the towel and get this wretched season done with…oye
By SUPERGRASS
July 30, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
when will pete orr be Designated for assignment ……….. bobby finally drop giles out of the leadoff spot
By krath
July 30, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
Jorge is gone. Maybe one day it will come together for him somewhere. Maybe not. Like Betemit all we can say is he’s gone.
Speaking of gone, how bout our starting rotation? Other than Smoltz, we stink. Do we try to grab another starter in the 27 hours that are left before the deadline or do we move one or two of our starters to other teams for help next year? In two days it will be August. Are we still saying the starting rotation will come around?
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
the mysterious aybar is coming to bat. nickname? this will be difficult. perhaps we can hear bobby from the dugout. oops, aybar is out before journalist can post. giles at number two. hitting like number two.
By Chop Chop
July 30, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this
As DOB (and many others) pointed out during the Braves’ insanely hot offensive stretch, the starting pitching has been a dirty secret that has continued to get dirtier after the offense has cooled off. It’s just hard to win when you can’t keep the other team from scoring five or six runs a game.
By Robert S.
July 30, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this
Well, some players are late bloomers. Betemit is shaping up to be a fine third baseman/shortstop in the mold of a Renteria (perhaps with more power) and if I recall correctly, he made some eye-popping defensive plays while filling in at third for Chipper. This deal reeks of Butler/Jacoby for Len Barker, and Jermaine Dye for Michael Tucker.
As for Sosa, and related to the Betemit deal, what ever happened to the potential Sosa-for-Ray King deal that ESPN bandied about? That would have made more sense than giving Betemit away for Baez and an unknown (who just popped out to sort as I type this). Sosa may yet be traded before 4 PM tomorrow though, we’ll see…….
By SUPERGRASS
July 30, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this
see, giles is already comfortable in that 2 spot- when is the last time he leadoff and got a freakin double……. now aybar better be effective in the 1 hole
By SUPERGRASS
July 30, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
my apologies- edgar got the double- im out
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
supergrass, watching same game? that is not giles on second base. the only difference is renteria now hits with two outs instead of one.
By Chop Chop
July 30, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
I remember some Braves fans crying in the offseason about Sosa’s name being mentioned in trade talks. Have they any tears left to shed today?
By Tonight on TBS
July 30, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
The Motorcycle Diaries (2004)
The incredible true story of a 26 year old (or is he 24?) utility infielder of the Atlanta Braves, Wilson ‘Che’ Betemit (yes, that Che, played here by Gael Garcia Bernal), who motorcycled from Atlanta to Los Angeles along with his best friend journalist Jimmy Smith (himself), baby seal in tow. The trek became a personal odyssey that ultimately crystallized his baseball philosophy as he became a Dodger and a beloved cult figure. Based on Jimmy Smith’s diaries of the trip.
By krath
July 30, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this
Whats the over under on runs James allows this inning?
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this
I never have seen so many rally killers in one lineup.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this
grinch, that you? journalist agrees that tbs should buy a couple more programs to go with the six they already run, but nothing like what has been described. did anyone notice andruw’s careful at-bat with glavine? why is andruw selective only with glavine? did anyone believe francoeur would get a hit against tommy? now, aybar … looks good at third so far.
By David O'Brien
July 30, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this
Don, are you related to Betemit?
And by the way, you wear me out. There’s just no reasoning with you. You know everything. You’re the most frustrating blogger we’ve had, at least on this topic, since a certain person we somehow got rid of weeks ago, who shall remain nameless.
Just so you know, I’m done debating Betemit with you. Time to move on. You can talk to yourself on the subject, because I think you like to hear yourself talk anyway.
By kevin
July 30, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
WHAT is UP with the Braves “pitchers” giving up hits to the opposing pitchers??? This is just getting sad man.
By krath
July 30, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
Wildcard my a*s!!!! lol
By kevin
July 30, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
…7-0…ok I’m gonna go do something productive now…I need to wash my car anyway…enjoy your games people
By Lew
July 30, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
Well, the writing was on the proverbial wall with Sosa. I can’t say I’m surprised. I like the fact BC has Aybar leading off and Giles back to number 2. Hitting third sure didn’t affect Renteria. Now if we can just come up with the offense to come back from a 7-0 deficit. At least there’s time left today. Jornalist Jimmy-Did you receive the art work? I had trouble with your email.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
dob, hot today? cool off with some cheese and crackers and a root beer to wash it down. thanks for the new blog. the old one was slow like following the old journalist up the ramp. old journalist there today?
how about mcdowell and cox - there today? thinking of visiting struggling rookie pitcher on the mound?
what? what? oh, the humanity - a grand slam! why did aybar not catch the batted ball? time to tend the hostas …
oh, the humanity!
By SUPERGRASS
July 30, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this
wow! its like a punch in the face with a swift kick to the a*s now shiell? im almost 100% shiell gives up a few runs
By Lew
July 30, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this
This has passed the point of total embarassment. I fell like I’m having a flashback to 1989.
By krath
July 30, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
I guess I have to answer my own question that I asked at the start of this inning before anyone had even stepped into the box. If you had over 3 runs, as the over under on James you were a winner!!! If you had under 4 runs, you’re a loser.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
lew, your e-mail did not arrive. journalist will e-mail you again.
well, get sosa ready for some long relief … what? sosa is gone? will bobby burn up his bullpen or will chucky take one for the team? take 7 for the team? can he give up fewer than 9 so he will not be compared to ace tim hudson? oh, the humanity! how will glavine pitch with a 7 run lead? bobby looks sad in the dugout. not going to the nose - not going to the mound - not going to the playoffs it seems. perhaps there will be some heroics when the “p” players enter the game.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
Can we please acquire one starting pitcher?
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
Ok, there is one day left before the trading deadline…trade the old timers that we just got, Hudson, Giles, and anyone else you get get some team to take off of your hands. Folks, I have officially joined the next year bandwagon…this season is a lost cause. Like I said after the road trip, if you can’t win at home; it doesn’t matter. So, the “momentum” that the “surging” Braves gained when the came home was short lived. This is the 2nd darn time they come home after a decent road trip and won 1 freakin game at home…1! What the heck. Let Smoltz finish with the Tigers, trade Hudson, and look to the future.
Regards,
Jason
By krath
July 30, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Sosa.. is James next to be run out of town? His homerun per inning pitched ration is higher than Sosas was!!!
By Chop Chop
July 30, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this
I think it would be amusing if the Braves traded Baez before he even took the mound as a Brave.
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
7-0, huh!
Time to go do something productive as well. I’m headed to the gym.
BTW
LaRouche still sucks. I am booing him now, and I will be booing him later.
By Col. Kurtz
July 30, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
The horror. The horror!
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
yes, journalist sees baby shiell is in the game. this is not pretty. perhaps mccann will hit an 8-run homer.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
Wilson, who?
By NY Man
July 30, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
Glavine doing this own purpose
By krath
July 30, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
Thank you Aybar for the semi-smile. We need every small reward we can get.
By Justin
July 30, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
dont get excited Andrew jones is going to strike out
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
“own purpose” or “on purpose?”
By krath
July 30, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
I make terrible predictions, but I said on this blog two months ago that Glavine would run out of gas late in the season. At least i was right about something!
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
Like Aybar’s hit. 7-2. You never know what may happen. The Braves need to go back on the road. That’s the only place they win.
7-3 Now. Edgar with a single and an Rbi.
By Calvin
July 30, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
I really wish Frenchy would learn to take a pitch when a pitcher is struggling to throw strikes.
By Chop Chop
July 30, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
Francoeur steps up to the plate. His team has rallied to score three runs off of future Hall of Famer Tom Glavine, who is obviously struggling with his control.
As Francoeur stands in the box, he tells himself, “Don’t swing at the first pitch, Jeff. Don’t swing at the first pitch.” Glavine comes set and delivers.
Francoeur’s mind: “SWING, DAMMIT!”
Inning over.
By SUPERGRASS
July 30, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
left on base this series: 3 fri, 4 sat, 5 already today …… for atl its little or nothing with runners on bases, while the mets hitting grand slams and s**t
By Calvin
July 30, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this
Abreu and Lidle has been traded(http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2534459)
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this
frenchy’s at bat is indicative of the whole year. You got Glavine on the ropes, he can’t throw any strikes and Jeff swings at the 1st pitch and grounds to the SS.
I hate to say this guys, and tell me if I’m wrong. I think McCann is a way better than Andruw, and Andruw has been in the league for 10-11 years
By Calvin
July 30, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
Abreu and Lidle have been traded to the Yankees.
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this
Better hitter, I meant to say. Sorry.
By MEB
July 30, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this
Brooklyn Drooler… I don’t think anybody is in the mood for your dribble.
By TommyB
July 30, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
DOB:
I found Van Hunt on iTunes last year and have worn out several of his tracks. I wish I’d mad last night but couldn’t. Any idea of any other local dates?
Also, the wife and I went to Ryan Adams at the Tabernacle last year. SUPERB show. I’d love to go tonight (wife isn’t up for it) so if you are aware of an available ticket, do holler.
TB
By TommyB
July 30, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this
DOB:
I found Van Hunt on iTunes last year and have worn out several of his tracks. I wish I’d mad last night but couldn’t. Any idea of any other local dates?
Also, the wife and I went to Ryan Adams at the Tabernacle last year. SUPERB show. I’d love to go tonight (wife isn’t up for it) so if you are aware of an available ticket, do holler.
TB
By TommyB
July 30, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
DOB:
I found Van Hunt on iTunes last year and have worn out several of his tracks. I wish I’d mad last night but couldn’t. Any idea of any other local dates?
Also, the wife and I went to Ryan Adams at the Tabernacle last year. SUPERB show. I’d love to go tonight (wife isn’t up for it) so if you are aware of an available ticket, do holler.
TB
By eware
July 30, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this
DOB, the Ryan Adams concert last night was f-ing outstanding. You’ll have a great time. Very rockin’. Plus, any show that covers “Hickory Wind” is awesome, in my book.
I’m not sure I would recommend visiting the land of Buddha before the show as a few things with the lights make for a bad freakout.
By TommyB
July 30, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
Folks,
I’m still planning to get a couple of season tickets for the remainder of the season. Truth be told, I tried every venue today around 11 am trying to find even a single ticket for today.
I can’t help myself. I feel so good when I’m at The Ted. That includes when we get our A** whupped. Man, I could do with an apartment there.
(If this isn’t registering with you, you’ll have to look at the tail end of the last blog.)
TB
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
I have to agree with you guys…just an awful, awful at bat by Frenchy. The last thing you want to do in that situation is swing at the first pitch. Seriously, it is like the first pitch is heroin for Frenchy. The dude just can’t get off it.
Regards,
Jason
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
Once again: Wilson who?
By Jimbo
July 30, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
You may not like the trade of Wilson but at least don’t take it out on Aybar and Baez. Give them a chance to prove what they can do in Atlanta. I don’t always agree with BC & JS but they know what they are doing 95% of the time. I still think you will see another trade before Monday at 4pm. Aybar 2 for 3 today so far. DOB I got the last Johnny Cash CD, you were right ,its great.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
Starting pitcher is what we need.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
Can Frenchy come through?
By Lew
July 30, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this
8-6. I guess the music ain’t over yet. Leave the music on. Jimmy-I re-sent to both emails. Hope it works. Go Braves.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
I meant leave the lights on. My heart can’t take these 112-110 games. I feel like I’m watching the NBA.
By TommyB
July 30, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
Some fun, at last today…
Did Aybar do anything the first time up? I know he knocked in two runs on the at bat before the last one but, was that his first or second?
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
journalist returns from watering the plants and once again it is a ballgame. Only a two run deficit. much better. baby shiell must continue to hold the mets.
By Calvin
July 30, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
TommyB, Aybar is 2-3. He popped up in his first at-bat.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this
TommyB,
That was his 2nd. He popped up in his 1st AB, to the SS I believe.
Regards,
Jason
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this
I’m of the opinion that we should NEVER AGAIN pitch to Beltran. Intentional walk every AB.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
Is there a law in GA against the Braves getting Beltran out? What the flying heck is going on? Of course, he is facing AAA pitchers, but still. Holy freakin cow.
Regards,
Jason
By Nick
July 30, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
Remember when Chipper used to be the bane of the Mets existence?
Braves, meet Carlos Beltran. Anyone know if Beltran has an embarrassing nickname that we can chant at him when he comes up to bat? Paul? Samuel?
By Lew
July 30, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this
Glass-I agree. They say there should be one player you don’t let beat you. Walk the sucker. Jason, it looks just as bad here in Vermont. I hope the Braves don’t do something dumb in the offseason like signing Maddux and Glavine to give us a veteran presence, though.
By TommyB
July 30, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this
Glass, Lew:
Nice observation. Let’s not pitch to Beltran any more this year.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
Lew,
What part of VT are you from? I went to school in Burlington and loved the area. I haven’t been there in a few years, but I used to visit on Memorial Day weekend. I am still in touch with a few people both at UVM and Champlain.
Regards,
Jason
By Tony Almeida
July 30, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
Wilson who?
By Lew
July 30, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
Three hits for Aybar. Do we now have a lead off hitter? Is it just possible JS really has a clue?
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this
I think Aybar played some left field at AAA Las Vegas along with 3rd and 2nd.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
lew, thanks for sharing the art. good stuff. lew is right about maddux and glavine - we can look at their pictures next year we don’t need them here. this team will have presence aplenty with an aging chipper. now, if the braves get a lead … if they get a lead … will anybody be able to hold it? never mind … more runners left on base. this aybar … why does he not swing at bad pitches? hm m m m …
By Lew
July 30, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
Jason, I live in Randolph, about 1 hr from Burlington on I89. My wife is Dean of Admissions at the Vermont Law School. Moved here five years ago after 35 years in Georgia and Florida. I just can’t adapt to being a Red Sox fan, I guess I’ve followed the Braves for too long.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this
The Braves just can’t get the one big hit to really get back in the game or tie it up. Where are those 50 HRs they have hit this month???
Regards,
Jason
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
I wonder if there is any way John Smoltz could be a player/pitching coach next year.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
I am hoping JS trades for a starting pitcher (even Redman from KC would do…at least he’s got a winning record). I’m not a fan of this “promote-a-starter” each week thing we’ve been up to lately.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this
Well, maybe Yates is turning out to be a keeper. Thanks, Jimmy, glad you enjoyed the art. Maybe we will get to see Baez today.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
Redman couldn’t be any worse than Hudson or Sosa.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Yeah, I know where Randolph is. VT is pretty cool, but it must be an adjustment from GA and FL. I know what you mean about adjusting to a Red Sox fan…living in Maine, there aren’t many of us Braves fans around. I am a fanatic…can’t help it. My wife and I have done a bit of travel together, including a few European countries. She recently asked me what my favorite vacation spot is out of the places we have visited. Without hesitation, I answered “The Ted”! We were there for the first time in 04 and it was incredible. I have seen them play in Boston and Montreal, but it was nothing like watching them at home with 40,000 fellow fans doing the chop.
Regards,
Jason
By Lew
July 30, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Glass, but Dayton Moore knows us too well. The price tag might be more than we want to pay.
By TommyB
July 30, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this
Lew, My sister lives in Attleboro (before Boston). She’s now a bona fide Red Sox fan. As for me, I’ve lived here in ATL since mid-eighties. Braves have been my team since late-seventies. But, I’ve always had about five teams I follow every year. I’ve been lucky to have had the Red Sox in group since ‘99. Hey, if this is any help, Greenville is now a Red Sox affiliate.
Enjoy the Sox. But STAYing a Braves fan is also possible.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
My wife is on a business trip to Baltimore and is at the White Sox-Orioles game. She just met Boog Powell at his resturant. I wonder if we could trade Pete and Skip for Boog. They all sell BBQ and Boog might have some pop left in his bat. Isn’t he about as old as Julio?
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
Glass,
I agree. We can’t think about the WC if we keep running the likes of Schiell or whatever the heck his name is out there. Seriously, I do not think trading Hudson would be a sign of giving up, especially if they could get something decent for him. I mean, we must be able to pay someone else $6 mill or less to have a 5.25 ERA. He hasn’t been very good for 1.5 years. With his salary really escalating in 08, he may have added value as his contract is reaonsable for next year.
Regards,
Jason
By gotigers72
July 30, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
‘Bout time they got rid of Jorge. He came in out of shape and never got it together. He had one good year and that was it. Million dollar stuff, 5 cent brain. I hope they can get something for him.
Shiell, and probably Chucky too, need to go back to Richmond and try to get it together. I hope when Davies comes back he has learned how to keep the ball down and how to throw strikes. He has a 6.75 ERA, he may need to stay at Richmond too. Is there any doubt now that pitching got them their 14 straight division titles? I just can’t figure out what has happened to Hudson. Is he tipping pitches? He says he’s not hurt, but is he? Something ain’t right. You don’t just go from being a 20 game winner to being as bad as he’s been. Heck, you don’t even go down as far as he has from the beginning of this year to the last 10 games. HoRam is HoRam, an inconsistent nibbler. Thomson looks like he is done. Davies needs to learn how to pitch. Chucky too. I believe Bill Fischer missed the boat on Shiell. Smoltz is Smoltz. One of the best in the business. You know this year is killing him. If I were the Braves, I would take most of Reitsma’s salary for not telling them about his injury earlier. That was moronic.
The Braves downfall this year has come down to three things, 1 - Pitching 2 - Pitching and 3 - Pitching. For the firsdt time in a long time us Braves fans have to say “Wait ‘til next year. That’s hard to make myself say, but 14 in a row ain’t too shabby.
I’m officially off of my soapbox now.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
It appears the Cardinals are close to getting Belliard from the Indians. They were one of the teams interested in Giles a while back…
By TommyB
July 30, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
Jason, Glass:
I have to disagree, in the sense that Bobby must be wanting to accomplish two things.
One being to eat up some innings.
Two being to see more of what Schiell is made of.
I can’t fault him. Plus I think Schiell shows promise.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
I’m all for seeing what a player has got, but we currently have 2 of 5 starters on the DL neither of which have been exactly lights out, Hudson sucks (I’m not recently on this bandwagon; been there all year), and who knows which Horacio will show up.
By TennesseePaul
July 30, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
Good bye to Jorge Sosa! We’ve had three addition by subtraction moves this season. Reitsma, Jordan and now Sosa.
I like this line up. I’d rather have a healthy Chipper in there, but this doesn’t look bad at all. Aybar is proving his worth right out of the gates.
I’m gonna miss Betemit. But not too much. He’s out here in LA now, so technically I’ll see a lot more of him, so I can’t miss him entirely.
I like DOBs comparison of Betemit and Aybar. At 23 Betemit was struggling in the minors. At 23 Aybar is producing in the Majors. That alone speaks volumes. And now we have speed at the top of the line up. Speed and a guy who knows his strike zone. He gets on base way better than Giles or Betemit.
Now, let’s do this Braves! We’ve brought the tying run up many a time… We’re still in this game.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
I think we go after Redman, unless as was stated the price is too high, or Kip Wells from Pittsburgh. I am willing to bet the Pirates would want some decent prospects in return.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
Glass,
I have been right there with ya on Hudson. TennPaul, I agree…we just haven’t quite been able to get that big 3-run homer…where are those 50 HRs we hit this month?
Regards,
Jason
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
Some of our bullpen troubles can be placed squarely on the rotation. “Relief pitchers” aren’t supposed to be used in the 2nd or 3rd inning several times a week. It’s hit or miss with many relievers. You leave them out there for 2 or more innings you’re asking for it.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this
What kind of nightmare are we living? Not more than a month ago the starters were pitching lights out to only watch the bullpen blow game after game. Now, the bullpen is pitching damn near lights out and its the starters blowing game after game. Take away that horrid first two innings and we have outscored the Mutts 6-2. I have said before and I will say it again. It doesn’t matter how good of an offense you have, if you contiuously are behind 4 and 5 runs before you can even get your bats warmed up it places too much pressure on the hittes.
By hk
July 30, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
… during the game I plot various stats in my trusty spreadsheet, generating team ERA and BA curves, amazing how much they still change inning by inning…
… you blogsters have talked alot over time about how one element of performance can effect another … added some arrows and text boxes, the curves sort of show that chain of events over the last few months …
click here for chart
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
betemit is batting fifth and playing third base today. there are four ex-braves in the dodgers’ starting lineup.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this
Sorry, I am not near a TV…can someone tell me what happened in the bottom of the 6th? I see that we got two hits…did we strand 2 more? I can’t use Gamecase either as I am not at a location with broadband…arrgh!!!
Regards,
Jason
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this
LaRouche 0-10 4K’s this series.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
hk, you are right that starting pitching is in total collapse … again.
By paluka
July 30, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Any chance of sending Hudson to Boston for Crisp?
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
Not Aybar’s fault. Please no one say “Wilson would’ve had that.”
By SUPERGRASS
July 30, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
Braves sixth. - - An.Jones struck out. - Francoeur bunt single to short. - McCann flied out to left fielder Woodward. - M.Diaz singled to center, Francoeur to third. - Feliciano pitching. - LaRoche struck out. thats exactly it JASON 2 HITS NO RUNS
By TommyB
July 30, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
hk:
Dude, what a nice job on charting/analysis!
One question. Did you rule out Chipper getting hot as the offensive spark?
Please keep up the Superb Work.
TB
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
I’d take Clement and Crisp for Hudson and players to be named later.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Well, isn’t that interesting? According to the graphic on TBS, Baez has 4+ years of service. Unless I am radically mistaken, all the Braves have to do to keep him is to offer him arbitration. Apparently he may not be a rent a player. Resign Wickman and all of a sudden next year the Braves have a bullpen with Paronto and Yates. Add Aybars hits, rbis and run scored and maybe JS doesn’t have Alzheimer’s.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Baez could use a trim on those eyebrows.
By paluka
July 30, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Who else would have interest in Hudson? perhaps St.Louis, Toronto,Detroit? Does anyone else have any ideas? By trading him does not necesarily mean giving up on the wild card. I just think it would be good to move his salary now when teams may be desperate to get someone.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Baez’s agent is not Scott Boras, which means we may be able to resign him.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Thanks Grass, I appreciate you taking the time to fill me in.
Regards,
Jason
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
Baez started slow but did a good job. I thought he was decent when he was in Tampa. I lived there for a while and he was all they had for pitching.
If you trade Hudson to the Sox then you really have to get another starter.
The angels need another bat and have been shopping Ervin Santana. Give them LaRouche and Giles for Ervin Santana or Lackey. Let Thorman play 1B.
By paluka
July 30, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this
I agree that if Hudson is traded the Braves would need another starter but the way Hudson has been throwing anything has to be better and if we could get Crisp for him than all the better.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
The July trades so far are bold moves by JS standards (not counting McGriff, of course). I wonder if moves like this would’ve helped us go deeper in the post-season. Tom Martin in ‘04? Kent Merker in ‘03? I don’t think so.
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
Let’s see if Larouche has the nad to do something against Billy Wagner.
He has the talent, to me he’s just a bad ballplayer that’s too inconsistent. He can prove me wrong right here.
9-6 with 2 on and 2 out
By TennesseePaul
July 30, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this
Anyone know if Beltran has an embarrassing nickname that we can chant at him when he comes up to bat?
Melanoma Head.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this
I should have said, trades like these in previous seasons.
By MEB
July 30, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
Brooklyn… Larounche singled in the 3rd inning.
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
0-11 5 k’s for LaRouche. I could’ve scripted it.
LaRouche SUCKS!
By Stanford
July 30, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
Lew, regarding Baez, I don’t know… maybe there is some kind of technicality, but if you look at his stats he pitched 50 innings in 01 and more than that every year since; seems like he’s in his 6th year.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
Glass-Baez is not yet free agent eligible-all we have to do to retain him is offer him arbitration. He will not be exceptionally cheap, but apparently it is the Braves’ option, not his.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
I don’t know about nicknames for Beltran, but I do know I wanna see Bobby flash 4 fingers and McCann extend his mit for the intentional walk when he comes up.
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
I don’t think Wickman is coming back next year. Chip just mentioned that Wickman had consdiered retiring at the end of last year and, inless he changes his mind, will retire at the end of this season. He didn’t specifically say, but his tone led me to believe that if was from talking with Wickman.
Lew! What beautiful artwork!! Many thanks for the link! :-)))
Journalist Jimmy Smith, Baby Seal and I have been fully occupied! The oil and filters are changed, fixed that little problem with the starter, played catch (the Braves should sign him!), played in the pond and fished. After services this morning (what a well-mannered little fellow he is!), we had a nice picnic, went for a short boat ride (get that? I took a seal out on a boat?!), played in the pond some more, fished (again), and now he’s taking a nap. Before we go fish again.
Forgot: I also heard Chip say that in order to put Chipper on the DL, the Braves had to more B Jordan to the 60-day DL, so I don’t think we’ll be seeing him anymore this year.
DOB, you do the best job! Many thanks from the troops here in DOB Blogland!
Brian, I’ve never followed basketball much. I know that’s heresy in NC, but they’ve gotta catch me before they can hang me! :-)))
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
Yeah, LaRoche struck out again, but don’t jump on his case. Andruw came up and took three terrible swings while Adam had to fight off a 96mph fastball and 98mph fastball.
What a horrible weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
By hk
July 30, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
TommyB,
… yes, Chipper came back from injury at about the low point of that red (BA) curve, started hurting again right around the peak of same …
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this
I swear if Pratt leadoffs the 9th inning I will sceam. Oh,hell, what does it matter. Another run just scored. If this game wasn’t over, it is now.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this
According to TBS, his service is 4+ years. If this is true, he is arbitration eligible but arbitration is much different for a player who is under 6 years of service. If I am not mistaken, the Braves offer arbitration (like they did with Giles this year) name a figure and the player names a counterfigure and the arbitrator decides. If under 6 years of service (and they go by how much of a year you play) you can’t reject the arbitration like a free agent. Someone correct me if TBS or I am wrong.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
I think Wickman is known for saying he is going to retire every year, though. As far as Baez, he’s closed before and is 28 or 29. If we can keep him, keep him. What other options are there for 2007?
By TennesseePaul
July 30, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
The bullpen sure has been shored up. This is the best it’s looked all season. Now all we need is some reliable starting. If our starters get on a role and start throwing with a 3 ERA instead of a 5 era, we’ll win a ton the rest of the season. It’s all on the Starters from here on out.
I’m not sure if I agree that James needs more time in the minors. He slaughtered the minors. His numbers down there are down right insane. He needed better hitters to pitch against. Now he’s got them. I think he’ll turn it around. He’s had one awful outing and a few good outings.
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
MEB
You are right, my mistake make that 1-11 5K’s in the series. Yahoo had not updated their boxscore page.
He still Sucks, though.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
James just needs more big league experience. I think we’re all hoping for a AAA savior; let’s give him time to develop and maybe the HRs will decrease.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
Young pitchers and hitters have to make adjustments after that 1st scouting report gets out.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
I don’t know. I just checked it out and he looks free agent eligible to me too. Maybe TBS typo’ed or something.
By TennesseePaul
July 30, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
I believe in arbitration, the team makes an offer, the player counters and they have until a deadline to work it out. At that point it will go to the courts and get worked out and both have to accept the ruling. As to the years of service part, I’m not sure. I believe after 6 years, you can go through this, or opt for free agency. I really should know. We all should. Maddux played that game and Clemens has been playing it for the past 3 years.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this
He was signed as a free agent by Tampa in 2004 after he was non-tendered by Cleveland.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this
I’m screaming!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t care if Thorman is left handed or not he should be batting no Todd “whiff” Pratt.
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this
You got you wish, Pratt pinch hitting to start the 9th.
Revising the above stats on LaRouche 1-10 4K’s 5 LOB.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
Tennessee Paul-I am sure of the arbitration part, I’m not sure of the actual length of Baez’s service. How about Aybar? 4-6 in his debut.
By Brooklyn Braves brawler
July 30, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
Aybar is 4-6 with a 2 RBI’s an 2 runs scored.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
Well, it obviously couldn’t have been much worse…1-5 homestand. Wow. Down right awful. Makes the road trip right after the all-star break useless.
This teams needs a serious shake-up. Smoltz is the only pitcher in the rotation worth anything. I will keep saying it…explore trading Hudson, especially if we can get Crisp.
Oh well, at least Cincy is losing again. It would be awful nice to sweep them next weekend, but too many teams have yet again climbed in front of the Braves. I can’t believe how bad they are at home.
Regards,
Jason
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
Maybe this will end the foolish fixation with winning the division. There are 4 playoff spots in each league, boys. Only one of them is an option.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
Yeah, this is sweep, as painful as it was, is the best thing to happen to the Braves. They want to truly get the best of the Mets. Win the Wild Card and knock them off in the NLCS. I’m going to keep believing they can win the wild card. I actually think this sweep will help them do that because they will now give up the idea of winning the division. It ain’t happening. Give it up, boys. Concentrate on winning the wild card. Right now you aren’t better than the Mets, but you are a hell of a lot better than any of the wild card teams.
Lets hope for the best!
By MEB
July 30, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
Brawler… Oh, never mind.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
The Brewers are desperately trying to lose to the Reds in the 9th. Dios mio!
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
At least the Braves didn’t lay down for the Mets today. They laid down more than Mikey’s sister on prom night Friday and Saturday.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this
Reds lose! Still 6.5 out in the WC!
By Chop Chop
July 30, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this
Robert, I’d agree that, on paper, the Braves should be better than most of the other teams in the wild-card standings. However, as of right now, they’re behind nine teams in those standings and 6.5 games out of the lead. That leads me to believe that the Braves aren’t quite as good as we’d like to think.
By Knockahoma
July 30, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this
I think the reality has officially set in with the team. Seeing them in the dugout laughing and talking is like watching the Pirates who always know they will be at home come October. The players have now reached the mode of individual stat-padding which means nothing to anyone but themselves. I will bet you that Andruw cranks it up again once the pressure of reaching the playoffs is over. I get the distinct feeling that many fans will come to the ballpark disguised as blue seats for the remainder of the year. Can’t blame anyone guven the way Atlanta has played at home this year.
The offseason should include the following trades. Most should be done with the goal of acquiring young pitching talent.
By LT
July 30, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this
C’mon- lets all sing together!
Where have you gone, Wilson Betemit? Our nations turns its lonely eyes to you (woo woo woo) What’s that you say, Mr Schuerolz? Joltin Wil…our utilitiy infielder with some pop in his bat…has left and gone away” (hey hey hey, hey hey hey)
Wow- I’ve never seen so much lament over a player swap. That was a swap- not a trade.
The problem with this team is the pitching staff. It is bad- terribly inconsistent from top to bottom. That is where I think the off season focus should be. Also, I don’t see it’s time to give up on Hudson. He seems to be mentally pressing. Maybe another arm would take some pressure off him. He was surrounded in Oaland by other strong arms.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
Perhaps Hudson is suffering from Peerless Price Syndrome.
By dadgum
July 30, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox if that was your call to steal 2nd down by three with the heart of the order due up you win the weekly dumbass manager award.
Pure and simple that was an error on David Wright at 3rd that gave Giles a double. Not pulling against Giles here but this is major league ball not Little League. The official scorer still has 3 days to change that. I would need about 5 seconds.
I bring up starting pitching again. Sorry about the redundancy but JS has until 4 tomorrow or the Braves are toast. Keep your eyes peeled to the wires something major is brewing. My guess is that the Braves will turn into sellers and posture for next year hoping whatever they get will be enough glue to get them to the wild card but if not at least give them a leg up for next year.
The more I think about it Willis might be the guy. The Marlins know they have great young pitchers and more on the way but the bullpen may need some help. The Braves have a plethora of bullpen bridge pitchers and teh Marlins need some help there. Also toss in Thorman and Bryan Pena with 2 pitchers and that may get it done. I would do that to get Willis and we may get some cash to boot.
The scenario above begs the question why would the Marlins want to help a division rival when they are beating the hell out of us with what they have. What nobody seems to be mentioning is the fact that the Marlins very well may be leaving South Florida and they should. Just a terrible, terrible baseball city. Horrible. It is Montreal south.
While Dontrelle is their poster child he wouldn’t necessarily be so somewhere else and they can rid themselves of his contract now and get a ton in return. The only other negative here is why would somebody want what we don’t want so again you will have to give up big to get DW. Hey just posing the scenario as I don’t obviously have his contract info.
Regardless, unless the Braves address starting pitching then they are totally stick-a-fork-in-me done. Hey JS—-wellllll we’re waitingggg. Tick..tick..tick..
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
I think some posted this a bit earlier. The starting pitching has been an issue all year and has affected the bullpen. Make no mistake the fact we didn’t have a real closer cost us a good 15 wins. Which of course right now would have us in the wild card lead. But, remember the last time the Braves had an excellent road trip and came home. We got rocked by the Dodgers and D-Backs. And all of those games except for one (a Ramirez start) we had horrendous starting pitching. We have fixed our bullpen problems. I’m not totally sold on Baez but he did look good today. Any guy who can throw a 94mph fastball and follow it up with a 78mph curve is going to get outs. Now, we have to fix the starting pitching. I think at this point almost anything is worth giving up to get it.
Possible solutons must include: Livan Hernandez, Tony Armas, Kip Wells, Jon Lieber (since the Phils are obviously throwing in the towel for this year), Mark Redman, and there is a sleeper. I can’t even believe I am about to type this. But, Jason Marquis can be had from all reports coming out of St. Louis. Would they take Giles? Yes. They were interested in him earlier in the season. I mean we could call Prado up or put Pena at 2B. I’m sure they could swing and miss a pitch that was up over their shoulders as well as he can.
It doesn’t matter. We have to have something. The only other option is to go the Yankee/Mets route which is to simply outslug the opposition with top notch hitters at every position. Which again brings me to acquiring Cocoa Crisp.
Something has to be done before the deadline tomorrow.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this
If the Braves don’t win the WC race, will McDowell be offered up as the sacrificial lamb?
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
I think the Marlins would deal with the Braves. Heck, they all but stocked the Mets roster. So, dealing with a divisional rival obviously isn’t a big deal to them. I would almost say at this point that trading Andruw could actually be beneficial. (Man, it pains me to say that.) With the Yanks getting Abreu their offense is now on par with the Red Sox. I am wondering if the Red Sox would make a deal involving Hudson and Andruw. Don’t laugh. Its possible. If JS were to demand Hansen, Crisp, and either Wily Mo Pena or Trot Nixon the Sox just might bite. They would be getting a gold glove centerfielder and a pitcher who before this year had the second best winning pct. of any active starter. In the world of the Red Sox both come relatively cheap for the next season and a half. From the Sox perspective it would be a calculated risk to get Hudson and hopes he snaps out of his funk (which I am beginning to think has more to do with McDowell’s lack of coaching than anything {last year when he did this Leo got him straightened out right away}). Just the thought of Schilling, Beckett, and Hudson in the rotation would make The Boss pop a blood vessel.
The Braves could then put Crisp in left where he is more comfortable, Francoeur in center, and move Thorman to right or put Nixon or Pena there if the Sox were willing to part with them. I think a deal of that magnitude would work. First of all it would immediatedly make this team younger and cheaper. Crisp, Hansen, and Nixon or Pena would cost us less than what Hudson and Andruw do. Another thing is taht if the Braves can’t resign Andruw then trading him now would make sense because after this year he can block any trade due to the 10/5 rule.
I wouldn’t be done dealing. I would give the Pirates a call and offer Bryan Pena and Langerhans or Thorman for Kip Wells. We would then have two young stud pitchers in the rotation to go with Horacio, Chucky, and Smoltz (who should not be traded unless an unbelievable offer was made) for the rest of the season. If the Braves choose not to excercise Smoltz’s option, which I think they should, we also have Davies and Hampton coming back. That would give us some leverage in a trade for whatever bullpen or position needs we would need in the offseason. We can’t trade Hampton without eating the vast majority of that contract. And, honestly, we would not get equal value so it wouldn’t be worth it.
By Patrick
July 30, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this
Aybar looked good today huh DOB? Also, Glavine has really struggled since the all-star break and even a couple starts before it really…
Any word on JS looking for another starting pitcher because it’s clear this ballclub has an ace and then 4 #5 starters to go along with Smoltz
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this
I forgot to add. We could trade Giles for prospects. If there mid level prospects, fine. Until Chipper returns from the DL we can put Pena (not Orr….NOT ORR) at 2B and then once Chipper is back Aybar can go there, so we can see if this kid can play there defensively.
Lets just say this trade were to be made. The Braves would be younger and cheaper and eventually better. Even for the rest of the year our lineup could look like this: LF Cocoa Crisp 2B Willy Aybar SS Edgar Renteria 3B Chipper Jones (if he can stay healthy for all the wise guys who already had that thought) C Brian McCann CF Jeff Francoeur RF Trot Nixon/ Wily Mo Pena 1B Adam Laroche
Starting rotation: Smoltz Wells Ramirez Hansen James
By Don
July 30, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this
Dave, no problem. Just keep posting the Schuerholz party line and you’ll continue to have access to him. It’s not that obvious.
By dadgum
July 30, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this
Again I just don’t think the Marlins want to help the Braves get any better but I hope I am wrong. Yes they have helped other teams in the division but well given the Braves’ success they are still the team to beat as a rule.
The Marlins should leave Florida for better digs. I still see Dontrelle being traded either now or in the off season. Just Florida’s M.O.
Great to see Aybar and Baez look good. Nevertheless these are just gaps being plugged for the present. The future and biggest needs as I have mentioned numerous times is starting pitching. It is the single most important thing to a successful team period. I just can’t imagine JS will sit back if anything that resembles a good starting pitching deal comes along. Tick…tick..tick…
By Chop Chop
July 30, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this
Robert,
You don’t seem to realize that the deadline is less than 24 hours away. That’s all the reasoning that I will attempt with you.
By brian
July 30, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this
Andruw will not and should not be traded.
To respond to Robert’s interesting trade though, I would ask for Jon Lester and not Hansen.
White Sox for McCarthy and Brian Anderson is also a possibility (Hudson or Andruw)
Hudson needs a change of scenery and we need to deal him before he stinks it up anymore and lowers his value. He will be the top SP on the market now.
By hk
July 30, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this
… Betemit 3 for 3 with a double through 6 … ex Braves have 6 of the Dodgers 8 hits (homer and two doubles)…
By Don
July 30, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this
By the way Dave (and K.C.), can you remind us again why being sellers in exchange for some pitching prospects was such a dumb idea now that we’re trailing 9 teams in the wild card race? Gotta love how that pitching staff is looking for next season given that our two late season rentals won’t be back unless they suck badly enough for the rest of the year to bring them down into our price range.
By Don
July 30, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this
Hudson to anybody for a bag of used baseballs.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, so what if there are less than 24 hrs. You never know what could be worked out. I don’t particuarly want to trade Andruw but lets be serious. What are the chances he will sign a new contract? If he isn’t going to re-sign, and the Braves attempt to trade him next year at the deadline he would be able to veto a trade. Lets say that were to happen, which is a good posibility, then he leaves after next year and we get nothing in return for him. What sense does that make? As for Hudson, he obviously needs a change. Everyone on here is always talking about how bad he sucks and he needs to go. Well, here you are. Lets get something for him before his contarct becomes like Hampton’s and he is truly untradeable. The thing is you have to be proactive. I know Andruw says he wants to be a Brave and I believe him. However, when the Red Sox, Yankees, Blue Jays, and Dodgers come calling with ungodly amounts of money ( much more than the Braves could and probably should offer) what is he going to do. Why not trade him and get some value and get younger at the same time.
I guess basically I’m being called stupid. But, how stupid are we all going to look when Andruw is in pinstripes or a Red Sox uniform and we have nothing to show for letting him go?
By SUPERGRASS
July 30, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this
GLASS- McDowell SHOULD be offered up as the sacrificial lamb….HES done nothing with this pitching staff, too much inconsistency all year
By dadgum
July 30, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this
This has not ben mentioned to date I think. Andrew is a free agent after next year at which time he will also be a 10/5 guy. His agent is every GM’s nightmare Scott Boras. JS hates Scott Boras so let’s get that out right up front. The Braves most likely will not be able to resign AJ without mortgaging the farm and that is not how to rebuild this team into a winner.
I hate to say this but, while I don’t think he will be traded tomorrow, I do feel he will be traded in the off-season to avoid the 10/5 tag and Boras. We can’t get what we need right now so it will take some shaking out after the season to see who is available. I think the braves would be very comfortable with Francouer in center and to that end they may pull the trigger and deal Andruw. If not ,Boras will use Andruw as a pawn to milk the Braves while driving up his price elsewhere then Andruw will sign most likely to the Yankees or some money machine team.
The more I write this I am starting to believe it will happen. Something about nothing lasts forever. Time for the new blood and young players like last year. Chipper will remain a Brave for the remainder of his career that i am certain. For the blogger who was dogging Chipper for being hurt etc.. Well sir/mam you are an idiot. Go pull for the Mets or Yankees and quit ruining my life. DOB ya’ll have a nice day and thanks for the great blog you have here.
By Head Coach
July 30, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this
I just wanted to say Baez and Aybar did look good in thier Braves debute otherwise this team really stunk it up against better competition. Its too bad the rest of the season is a total wash , it would have been fun to see this team in the playoffs , not ! Hopefully they start calling up more kids from Richmond and double A and start building for 2007.
By Stanford
July 30, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this
dadgum, I think AJ reaches 10/5 status in just a couple of weeks. He was first called up in August of ‘96.
I could argue that we should or shouldn’t trade AJ; hopefully the Braves already have a sense of whether they’ll be able to resign him for a (relatively) good price.
He’s kind of at the same stage Chipper was in ‘01 when we re-signed him; Chipper was about 29, a star, and never had a problem with injuries (except the broken leg in ‘94, I think).
Will AJ start to break down from all the diving and eating, or will he still be a star 5 or 6 years from now? I don’t know!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this
Dadgum, that was the point of my earlier blog. Andruw will actually be a 10/5 guy after this season. So, even in the offseason he can veto any trade. The likelihood of him re-signing isn’t great. Yes, there’s a chance but if it isn’t at least 80/20 that he will and it is not then the Braves are taking a huge risk. I guarantee that Boras will instruct him to veto any trade and allow his contract to run out. That is the kind of agent he is. Why allow him to be traded have a huge slump with a new team and drive down his value. From an agent’s perspective its smart. From the Braves its dangerous. I don’t want to see Andruw go, but unless you can get him to sign an extension now or in the offseason, which he won’t then he leaves and the Braves get nothing.
Its called good business. The only reason I would be advocating trading him now is that we can get some good young talent in return. Make the team younger, faster, and cheaper, and ulitmately better. You will never get equal value but you have to squeeze what you can. The fact is Chipper will retire a Brave. Can’t trade him if you want to. He can veto any trade. Same with Smoltz.
By Don (Not that one ...)
July 30, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, I appreciate all the AJC blogs — but I just wanted to say that I hope you all see past the poster names here.
I’ve posted in one or two threads here and there under the name Don, but I’m not that guy!
Personally, I think this is a good trade for WB once he gets settled. I think the writting on the wall for him was really set this spring when we dealt Marte for Renteria. That meant we were committed for two more years to Chipper — and past that point, WB would have been gone anyway.
The Braves have prospects at 2B and SS not too far off, so I don’t think there was ever really a window for WB here to show his skills as a starter — and he can be better than a “SuperSub” in LA.
Of course, the Chipper injury muddles things a bit — but you can’t make the best deal for the team if you assume the worst in those situations.
Oh well, after today’s loss I hope the Braves can get their focus on the Wild Card before it’s too late. Our schedule is supposed to help us down the stretch, but not if we keep squandering our long home stands.
Later,
Don!
By Beachcomber
July 30, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this
Great ideas. Let’s cancel the rest of the season, shoot Chipper. Peddle Andruw for some middle of the rotation guy (seems like we have about a half dozen of those now). Why not just play it out and see what happens - still don’t see any ‘27 Yankees ahead of us in the wild card. But I must admit sending McDowell on the last bus to Albuquerque (with apologies to the late, great Lewis Grizzard) does seem like a grand idea.
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this
Journalist Jimmy, that wasn’t me earlier; I haven’t been on the blog since yesterday afternoon. However, the described show on that post sounded a lot better than today’s game; glad I was busy cleaning a pool instead! The rest of this team has way too much spirit to be stuck with this god-awful starting pitching. It really is starting to look like the late 80’s again. Smoltz deserves better. I have confidence in Hampton next year, and I hope Smoltz’ arm doesn’t fall off, but I don’t much know after that. Sigh.
By David O'Brien
July 30, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this
Don, good line about Hudson and bag of balls. Original.
And you’ve got some stones, coming on and making another stupid comment about your obsession, the trade of Betemit, after the guy they got back just hit leadoff and had four hits.
Do you actually watch the games, my man? Or just make inane comments?
I know you won’t care, since you can’t read the numbers through your tears over the loss of Betemit, but Aybar has a .372 batting average in 89 at-bats as a major league leadoff hitter.
Again, I know he’s no Betemit. Never could hope to be one, but for a sadsack through in, ‘ol “Upside Aybar” ain’t looking too bad.
Have a nice night, SJA … er, Don.
For the other bloggers, the mostly very cool ones: Baez indeed will have just under 5 years’ service at end of season. Just arbitration eligible, not free agent. But he’s making $4 mill this year, so his arbitration salary would still be high. I’ll check tomorrow to get some better idea.
By dewan
July 30, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this
SO sad to see Sosa go and Pete Orr stay. As I have said in the past how cn we justify keeping Orr and gettig rid of Sosa. Yes his pitching sucks but hey he has 3 bombs at the plate. Sosa can play IF and take Orrs place cause whenever we see Orr come to bat we know that he will be returning to the dugout shortly after. From what I heard Orr has an Ipod and whenever he is summoned to bat he puts it on pause cause he knows he will be back in 5 pitches or less (LOL). No Reitsma, Remlinger, Sosa, Foster so now we have no excuses.
By Don
July 30, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this
SJA Dave? Don’t know what you’re talking about but I guess that’s what you resort to when you can’t make a coherent argument. Just stick to parroting Schuerholz like a good PR flack.
Yeah, Aybar had a nice game today and Betemit is 3 for 3 with 2 doubles for the Dodgers. Big deal, it’s one game for each of them. Let me know when the Dodgers send Betemit to Vegas with instructions to learn how to play left field. And carrying Tony Pena, Jr. on the roster instead of an extra pitcher looks like it’s going to work out, doesn’t it?
By Lew
July 30, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this
Thanks much DOB-You know, I think JS has seen that he really needs a substantial bullpen. Baez will probably command about $5m mil or so.In the scheme of things, that about equals Sosa and Reitsma’s salaries. In all likelihhood, with the return of Foster and Boyer, Baez salary is quite reasonable. It wouldn’t hurt to try and re-sign Wickman, if you can talk him out of retirement. I think if we can sign these two for 07, we will potentially have a great bullpen with Yates, McBride and Paronto (maybe Ray?). With the jettisoning of Jordan’s$1mil, Hudson’s$6 mil and Giles $3.5 mil, along with the $4.5 mil from Thomson’s departure, that leaves $14 million to patch up the starrting rotation. I know it’s only been one day, but if Aybar can play second and leadoff, all we need then is a righthanded hitting 1B/OF. Sounds much more reasonable than trying to dump Chipper and Andruw like so many have suggested. Isn’t JS beginning to look smart again?
By Tonight on TNT
July 30, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this
New original reality series “Rotate on This.” The starting rotation of the Atlanta Braves pitching staff move into a posh downtown hotel for 8 weeks to train together; the final objective to see who can pitch their way out of a large paper bag. Episode 1: “Hey, who stole my toothbrush?” Starring acadamy award winner Jamie Foxx as John Smoltz, Don Knotts as John Thompson, and everyone else in the rotation as themselves, including a random set crew member as the fifth starter. Also starring Fred Dalton Thomas as Bobby Cox, Baby Seal as the personal trainer that won’t give up on them, Rodger McDowell as the retarded bellboy that keeps losing everyone’s luggage and equipment, Bruce Willis as the assassin, Dennis Hopper as himself and Li Phu as Wong Phen. Followed by back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back episodes of Law and Order. TNT: WE KNOW DRAMA.
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this
And Jenny McCarthy as Erin Andrews; sorry!
By Lew
July 30, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this
Well, I suppose TNT already has THE CLOSER. A perfect Friday night lineup.
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this
And Scott Boras as Satan…
By Vol
July 30, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this
Aybar had a great game to start off with the Braves and I think he needed it to get comfortable. I don’t know about him as a leadoff guy, though. He may have taken fewer pitches than Frenchy today.
What did you guys think of Baez? He scared me a little with several pitches out over the plate. He throws hard, but the soft stuff seemed to float a little. Is it true that his dad is the same dad from American Pie? Eye black goes UNDER the eye, Danys, not over it! Well, when you make $4MM and throw 95mph you can groom those brows however you like.
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Lew; maybe we could get that chick to pitch next year if Wicky retires.
By Beachcomber
July 30, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this
And Donald Fehr as Satan’s assistant. Good night Gracie!
By Don
July 30, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this
I understand now that Fox has acquired Turner South and broadcasts most of the Braves games that they’ve come up with a great idea for some cross programming. They’re going to put together a reality show modeled on American Idol. A dozen amateur and semi-professional pitchers selected from regional tryouts compete in a skills challenge over 11 weeks, with one being eliminated each week based on a vote of the audience. The winner receives a spot as the #5 starter for next year’s Atlanta Braves and the first two runnerups earn spots as middle relievers. The winners are all guaranteed six figure incomes in 2007 based on current major league minimums.
Fox is also said to be evaluating a second show called “You Can Be a Major League Utility Infielder/Backup Catcher/Pinch Hitter!”, with contestants competing for the Braves roster spots currently occupied by Pete Orr and Todd Pratt.
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this
Funny about the eye-black, Vol.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this
I really never understood bringing Pratt in this year. They said it was to mentor McCann, but it has become pretty obvious he doesn”t need any more mentoring other than from his dad. Beside, Pat Corrales was a major league catcher. Aren’t coaches supposed to mentor players? Brayan Pena is definitely major league ready, if only as a backup.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this
carolina lady, it sounds as if you and baby seal have had a fine day. in addition to small engine repair skills baby seal makes a fine fishing companion. only problem is that baby seal eats the fish on the spot and nothing is left for the dinner table. it is good that you were occupied today because something unthinkable happened to the atlanta braves. it was not pretty.
By Robert
July 30, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this
“Bobby Cox if that was your call to steal 2nd down by three with the heart of the order due up you win the weekly dumbass manager award.”
Psst - Cox has won that award for 352 consecutive weeks
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this
Don, can’t you just see Simon Cowell staring coldly at a clearly hopeful Hudson/Ramirez/James/Schiell/whoever and saying “That was quite positively the worst performance I’ve ever seen in my life. And you say you want a job with the ATLANTA BRAVES? If I were Liberty Media, I wouldn’t let you pitch at my daughter’s middle-school softball practice, much less sully that famous uniform with your presence. Speaking of presence, please get out of mine and go back to flipping burgers at Jack-in-the-Box.” Followed by said pitcher bursting into tears and getting a sympathetic clucking of the tongue by Vanessa Williams as he mopes off with his face in his glove.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this
Or we could dig up Chuck Barris and restage the GONG SHOW. I guarantee I’d hit that gong sooner than BC does. James never would have had a chance to give up that Grand Slam to Beltran. He would have been gonged before the bases were loaded.
By Tonight on PBS
July 30, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this
Six Pitchers in Search of a Pitching Coach (1921) by Luigi Pirandello
The most popular of Pirandello’s comedies tells the tale of six Atlanta Braves pitchers who simply cannot find the plate. Driven to play out the game, despite their high ERA’s, these pitchers request that they be allowed to keep pitching, despite the absence of a real pitching coach. Thinking it an interesting baseball experiment, the manager consents. He soon regrets his decision, however, as the pitchers refuse to stay within the arbitrary boundaries that the umpire has set as the strike zone. Their lack of control leads them to undermine the foundation of the game, ignoring all instructions from the dugout and the pleas of the manager until, in the end, tragedy strikes. (Three hours)
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this
Or maybe the Bong Show, for die hard fans like us that have to watch this mess unravel day after day…
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this
They ought to be able to find the plate after Parontoe and Wickman licked it clean…
By Don
July 30, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this
Is there anybody out there who didn’t say or think “Oh God, here comes a grand slam” when Beltran came up with the bases loaded and nobody out in the second? It was just like that Sosa versus A-Rod matchup in Yankee Stadium a few weeks ago.
By dadgum
July 30, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this
Look I don’t wish Andruw to leave the Braves let’s get that straight right now. I mean I want to sign Andruw right now to an extension before free agency. Ain’t gonna happen. I am only looking at the business side of things when talking of trading Andruw while we can get something in return before Boras Karloff gets his act going.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this
I’ll issue a Smoltzesque ultimatum: 6-0 road trip.
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this
Yes, it’s gloomy right now, but it will all get better. Have faith. I’m fixin’ to go grill some pork chops; I’ll holla back in a few…
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this
A sweep of the Pirates and 2 out of 3 from the Reds will make things look alot better.
By Braves Nicknames
July 30, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this
Someone asked about this earlier. Please print this out and tape to the fridge for future reference:
Marcus Giles = Jilly Oscar Villarreal = Villy Phil Stockman = Philly Willy Aybar = Willy Jason Shiell = Shilly
and Chuck James = Shell Shocked Silly
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this
Lew, I forgot to ask: do you have a painting of Bobby?
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this
That’s supposed to be a plus sign.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this
As long as these words are never uttered again by a Braves announcer, I’ll be happy: “Now warming in the pen…Jorge Sosa/Chris Reitsma.” One down. Reitsma? Depends on how sentimental the Braves are.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 30, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this
carolina lady, permit jimmy smith to answer for lew … though journalist cannot be certain jimmy smith thinks that bobby cox would not be suited for portraiture. first, there is the problem with the fingers …
now, journalist jimmy smith did hear bobby from the dugout cheering for willy today. there is no imagination to a nickname of willy for a player named willy. this young man must have a real nickname.
now, pratt … journalist heard some new names for him when he was introduced to pinch hit in the ninth inning …
By krath
July 30, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this
When is it going to be ok to start talking about rebuilding a winning team without being accused of being a know nothing bandwagoneer?
Just wondering.
By Bob, journalist
July 30, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this
There are a lot of reasons why we lost today … the biggest one being that we scored less runs than the Mets … nothing like belaboring the obvious.
Here’s another, in the other seven of the nine innings, we had a total of 8 hits plus 3 walks … but 11 strikeouts and no runs.
Braves coaching may be a lot like me and taking medicine for my joints … when I hurting and it gets real bad, I take the medicine for a few days and, miracle of miracles, I feel like a new man … and, after a few pain free days, I stop … even though a maintenance plan is dictated, and the pain returns!
Earlier in the year, against the D-Train … it looked that the team had a “plan” and the results were outstanding; similiar to what teams occassionally used to do against Tommy and Greg.
Then, when we were in the extended losing streak and most everyone appeared lost at the plate … we started seeing evidence of “plans” again being employed; and again with good results.
Now I know that our pregame preparation directionally addresses everything from cornbread to homemade icecream, including pitcher’s tendencies … but, today’s players grew up with computers and watching TV … and the liberal media telling them how to think … they need a plan, prefferably one developed by a member of the three digit club who has an imagination.
That may not be objective knowledge, but it’s what I think.
The main problems with our plans, when we have them, seem to be that (1) some hardheaded folks pay them no mind, (2) there are no alternate plans ready for when the plan is flawed or the opposition finally figures it out, and (3) the plan appears to address only the approach to take against the starting pitcher.
Our guys are so talented that we only need plans when facing staff aces … and only then when things are going bad. Think about it, rookies and medicore relievers seem to give us as much, if not more, trouble than aces do.
Time to develop a plan for getting Mama to fix me a dozen boiled shrimp and some pasta.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this
From ESPN Insider:
L.A. story? Jul 30 - A baseball executive told ESPN The Magazine’s Amy Nelson that the Dodgers are the hottest team on Greg Maddux, and that the Cubs and Dodgers are haggling over prospects. The deal would be two L.A. prospects for Maddux; one would be a position player, the other a pitcher. And both would be high-level, likely coming from their loaded Triple-A team in Las Vegas. The executive also said that the Padres and Braves had inquired, but neither team is believed to have made an official offer.
The Cubs are trying to figure out how a team could absorb the $3 million Maddux is still owed. The more the Cubs are willing to pay, the better the player will be that they’ll get in return.
Man, I would have mixed emotions about this one. For some reason, I love Maddux…one of the few (if not the only) ex-Brave that I root for. To be honest, he is one of my favorite players of all time. But, I am not sure he is what we need right now. He did pitch good his last outing against the Cards, but obviously hasn’t pitched good since April. But, I guess I wouldn’t complain seeing him in a Braves uniform again, but without many expectations.
Regards,
Jason
By Jman
July 30, 2006 09:07 PM | Link to this
2 questions DOB:
Are the Braves done with the deadline deals?
Are the Braves done PERIOD?
By Jeffrey
July 30, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this
Jorge Sosa always reminded me of another favorite Dominican Brave from the 80’s, Pascual Perez. They both came out of nowhere to have big years and just as quickly reverted to their true form. Compare the stats:
Perez - 1983: 15 W - 8 L - 3.43 ERA 1984: 14 W - 8 L - 3.74 ERA 1985: 1 W - 13 L - 6.14 ERA
Sosa - 2005: 13 W - 3 L - 2.55 ERA 2006: 3 W - 10 L - 5.46 ERA
By JJMB
July 30, 2006 09:09 PM | Link to this
Did anyone catch John Schuerholz’s interview with Kincaid Friday on 680? This was before the Benemit trade, and Chipper’s injury.
He actually said the Braves were ready to make it to the post season with the (then) current personnel. Something about the look in their eyes, or something. Incredible.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this
No Ma’am- The only Bobby portrait I have is Bobby Dews, who is definitely the most valuable Brave in my opinion. He was kind enough to sign it in Montreal when they played the EX-Expos (or is that EX-POS), several years ago. Grinch-go check your email.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this
Journalist Jimmy-In regards to a nickname for Aybar-You realise that BC used to call Bate A Meeat Willy. This is a no brainer. Why do you think JS went out and got another Willy? He was trying to save effort for BC, who obviously has enough on his mind these days without having to remember new nicknames.
By dadgum
July 30, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this
Can Maddux help us this year? Yes, of course. In fact he never wanted to go to Chicago it was simply a business move due to belt tightening. Maddux may have slipped a little but he is still better than many we have started. He, in my opinion, could help us through 2007-08 which I believe is when his contract is up. If Cubs will eat some of his contract and get a Giles in return that may work.
Again though he most likely will end up in LA and we could get somebody like Wells cheaper so we’ll just have to see.
It is obviously a lot easier to play GM here than to be JS actually under the gun right now. You can bet the ranch that JS is going back and forth with other GMs right now trying to get starting pitching. Folks all we need is a good starter with proven credentials (that hopefully pitches like it when he gets here) to put with Smoltz, Ramirez (who has a big upside, and Hudson (when he pitches like oh…Hudson of the A’s). Maybe just maybe we can catch lightning in a bottle. Nevertheless it would ease some pressure on the regular starters and perhaps get the ones that are slumping back on track.
Again though fans, no starter by the deadline = no wild card contender. Too many teams ahead of us (9)and too many games out(7)in the loss column. Too much to ask when your starters are getting shelled.
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this
Yassuh, Mr. Lew; I’ll bees raht back!
By Lew
July 30, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this
Dadgum-I’m pretty sure this is the final year of his contract. He is a free agent at the end of the season. They were discussing it on XM Home Plate yesterday and said he has a no trade clause and likely would veto a trade that was not closer to his home in LasVegas. Who knows? He is due several million dollars the balance of the season, however, and his record over the past 12 or so games is no better than Tim Hudson’s.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this
dadgum,
I completely agree. A starter is a must if the Braves have any shot at the WC. DOB, you around my man? It just isn’t the same blogging without the lead blogger. What are your feelings regarding any moves before tomorrow’s deadline? With the Dodgers paying some of Baez’s contract, the Braves still have what, around 3-3.5 mill?
Regards,
Jason
By TennesseePaul
July 30, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure why everyone thinks it’s impossible to resign Andruw. How much do you think he will make? No player makes more than 25 million a year. That’s A-Rod. That’s from a deal in 2000/2001 when every team was handing out massive contracts. It doesn’t happen that way any more. So I think it’s safe to say he will make less than 25 million a year.
Andruw has once already shown the desire to take less to stay with the Braves. (Borus was his agent at the time, and Andruw temporarily replaced him simply for the home town discount). So a home town discount isn’t that far fetched. Most members of this team are making around the league minimum. A portion of Hampton’s contract is paid for this year by insurance. Hampton is owed about 8 million a year without including the extra from the insurance. There is no guarantee that Chipper and Smoltz will be playing another 5 years at 11 million a year. The Braves can work Andruw in. Even if it’s for 17 million a year. And most likely, it will be 15 a year going up to 17 or 18 towards the end. Or, the Braves could pay the bulk up front, when all the youngsters are still close to league minimum, so that they can still afford everyone as time passes. Resigning Andruw is not that far fetched.
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
Maddux is owed $3 mill for the remainder of the year. I would think Maddux would accept a trade back to the Braves to be with Smoltz and Bobby. He loves Bobby. Plus, maybe he can recapture his glory days for a couple of months, come back home, and help the Braves win the WC. It makes for a good story at least.
Regards,
Jason
By JasonInMaine
July 30, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this
TennPaul,
Do you think Andruw is worth that money? Personally, in today’s market, I think $15 mill would be tops. He still plays a great CF, but he is getting older and his body is getting a little more banged up. I still think his is a gold glover, but a younger Andruw gets to that ball in the early innings (the one that hit off of his glove). He is inconsistent at the plate. Again, I am not saying the Braves shouldn’t try and keep him, but I am wondering what the ceiling on their offer should be.
Regards,
Jason
By Lew
July 30, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this
Thank You Tennessee Paul! I’ve been saying the same thing for weeks. He told Boras to screw off before and he has said repeatedly that he doesn’t want to play anywhere else. It’s about time we took him at his word. Not only would he re-sign, but I would imagine at a home town discount. Didn’t he negotiate his last contract with JS at a basketball game? I’m not sure people realize how much money we had tied up in people that either didn’t earn it this year, or like Giles and Hudson, are really expendable. Just losing Sosa, Reitsma, Remlinger, Thomson, Jordan and trading Hudson and Giles, will not only bring us prospects, but free up well over $20 million. Even if the budget remains the same, with the Braves having prorated Hampton at $8 mil instead of paying him at the back end, the Braves will be able to fill all of our needs, sign Baez and Wickman if he doesn’t retire and still be able to afford Chipper AND negotiate a new contract for Andruw. People try to make things way too complex. Being a GM is a very geometric job. By that I mean you try to govern yourself with the “shortest ditance between two points being a straight line”. You don’t try to wheel and deal to the point of complexity. Why dump your important parts, when it is the driftwood that is weighing you down?
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t mind having Maddux back, either. I wouldn’t expect him to set the world on fire, but at least he doesn’t lack confidence and maybe his presence could instill some into these other lost souls. Half a Maddux is better than 3/4 of a Hudson, which is what we have now.
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this
E-mail read and responded to, sir!
By dadgum
July 30, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this
If Greg’s contract is up this year it is very doubtful he will com eto the Braves. No way the Braves will sign him for anything near what he would make out west with LA or San Diego. He most likely would accept a trade to either.
I would like him in Atlanta but not on a rental basis. Maybe we can resign him to a new contract quickly once he gets here if he will take a discount. Who knows.
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this
Takin’ a little break; I’ll be back later.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this
I don’t know guys. So far, JS has made some pretty shrewd moves that could easily bear fruit into next year. I bet we can re-sign Wickman, and as DOB says, Baez may be more expensive than we usually like, but JS now sees that that is life and the way it is. Now it also looks like we have a leadoff hitting second baseman in Aybar to replace Marcus (God, I do hate to see him go). I think JS knows exactly what he is doing and is not only trying to strengthen us for an improbable stretch run AND deal with the problems so we don’t go through this crap again next year. Look at my post from a few minutes ago. We can afford to do this. Maddux won’t fit into next years plans, so I think it doubtful we will pick him up.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this
At ease, Grinch.
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this
Tennessee Paul, I agree with you on Andruw. He and his dad negotiated the last contract, and I’ve read (but don’t know exactly how reliable the source) that he wants to play only in ATL. He has umpteen million now; I sorta have the feeling that he won’t chase the money. I think (and hope!) he’ll resign with the Braves when the time comes. (I don’t ever want to see either Andruw or Smoltz in another team’s uniform!)
As for his level of play, even though he’s slipped a tiny bit from his younger days, he is still better than about anybody of whom I can think, and is still only 29 years old.
Lew, will you post the Dews portrait? Pleeeze??? Sure wish you could do one of Cox. He has an interesting face. (Hush, Jimmy! I know what you’re thinking!) :-)))
By Lew
July 30, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this
Yes, Ma’am, I’ll be glad to, but Kathy is in Baltimore and she is both the photographer and the computer person. It will have to be when she returns later in the week. I’ve thought of doing a BC portrait, but haven’t found the best photo to work from. I did one of JS and his son Jonathon and gave it to JS at spring training several years ago. I did several pieces for Darren Holmes a couple years back to use at a charity auction in his hometown> I even did one of Smoltz, which he signed a Holmes auctioned it also. Darren, who is a great guy, got Bobby Dews to come over and sign the portrait for me.
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this
Oh, great, Lew!! Can’t wait to see it. I really liked the one of Smoltz; you caught alot of his intensity and character in it. I do admire your talent! I can do a lot of things but that type of art isn’t one of them and I truly regret it! (So, I drool over work such as yours, sigh alot, and raptly look some more! :-)))
Holmes is a good ol’ North Carolina boy. From out there in Krath’s part of the state.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this
Yes Ma’am , I do what I can. Not too bad for only having 1 1/2 funtional eyes, don’t you think? I also have portraits of Giles, Hudson, Hampton, McCann, Boyer, Pendleton, Chipper, Estrada, Sheffield, Glavine and of all people, Robert Fick. Don’t ask me, it just happened. Seth McClung got Scott Kazmir and Casey Fossum to sign portraits in Boston, for me.
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this
This is me, green with envy!
:-))
(Would Kathy post them???? Maybe?? You think??? Possibly???? Huh????)
By Lew
July 30, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this
I’m sure she will, but in all likelihood it will be next weekend. She is Dean of Admissions at the Vermont Law School and her schedule can be total insanity. She’s at a conference in Baltimore and went to the White Sox-Orioles game today. She even got Boog Powell’s autograph. This is how the museum grows. This has been a pretty good year. She went ot a Padres-Mets game in SD and saw Julio Franco hit the oldest person ever record breaking HR. The McClung got us tickets to Fenway and we saw him lose to Schilling for Curt’s 200th. It pays to be a portrait painter at times.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this
Excuse me, that should have been Then McClung. I don’t think he’s a medieval clan leader.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this
Ma’am, You said you can’t to that type of art but do other things. What might those things be?
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this
That’s dynamite, Lew! I’m truly happy for you!! (Hope that eye gets better quickly!)
By widmarc Clark
July 30, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this
No amount of trades will help now, Baez, Willy Who or what is going to help. Beltran made it clear that he and the Mets were gonna clean house and let the Braves know who is the King of the Hill Three straight in the outhouse.
The Braves can’t win the BIG ONES, so lets just enjoy what games are left. I had hopes the team would sit the Mets down and shut up Pedro Martines well it didn’t happen.
I hope the Mets get beat four straight games in the World Series by the American League. Us Brave fans are not by ourselves no other National League is going to beat the Mets either it’s been a pretty interesting season next year we’ll need some quality pitching both Sosa Hudson, and Thomson need to go.
Maybe someway some how the Braves can hold on and end the season in 2nd place every thing ends at one point or another.
By Lew
July 30, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this
Widmarc-Soas was designated for assignment today to make room for Baez. The Braves have 10 days to either trade him, or release him. Thomson is a free agent after this season and it is doubtful he will be re-signed. I agree, Hudson needs to be traded and hopefully will be.
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this
Well, I’ve done a lot of design work in everything from interiors to flowers to birdhouses. I draw designs to put ON things, such as the fronts of birdhouses (I design, blueprint, and build birdhouses and feeders from scratch). I’ve designed cross-stitch items and other needle art work. Have done a lot of computer-type art using various photo editing programs, photo restoration, image manipulation, etc. I enjoy photography but I don’t have the camera for really good stuff. All just avocations - ‘cept maybe the bird house/feeder thing which is slowly growing into a business of sorts. People see them and want ‘em, which tickles me no end! And I enjoy working with beautiful wood!
By Lew
July 30, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this
Ma’am-I’d like to see the birdhouses. I need something for the chicadees. Want to trade for a picture?
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this
Surely JS will make a move even for a marginal starter since Thomson suffered a setback in his rehab assignment; Thomson has been a marginal starter since 2004.
By Stanford
July 30, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this
I dunno, GHF. Marginal starters we’ve got.
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 11:02 PM | Link to this
Sure will, Lew! I’ll email you! :-))
By Bob, journalist
July 30, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this
Lew, is the one of little Bobby Dews … a Black & White? I’d like to see that! Such an interesting face on such an interesting man.
We were freshmen at Tech … same dorm, same floor … different ends of the hall, about six rooms apart … Sam Nunn was in the middle.
I knew he played but didn’t associate him with baseball until later … my baseball and football ended long before college due to injuries and lack of talent. Freshman year memories include fear of failing, ghost writing mathematical “theme” papers, varsity hotdogs and shirt-tail parades down Pachtree.
By Bill
July 30, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Betemit’s age is listed wrong, he is really 24. The Braves got in trouble becasue he lied about his age a few years ago.
Are we going to make a move for a starter?
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this
Well, at least one non-gimpy marginal starter would be an improvement. Sure, Davies will continue to develop, but when he went on the DL his ERA was over 6. Thomson has been injured for 2 years.
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this
Hey, Bob; bet that was the last time Sam Nunn was “down the middle” in any capacity! Bwah-ha-ha-ha! Sorry. I could live off of Varsity food entirely (though it would likely trim my lifespan by about 95%). Double chilli cheeseburgers, chilli cheese dogs, hot ham & cheese and don’t even get me started on the onion rings. Yum… Carolina Lady, I have birdbaths, hummingbird feeders and bat houses, but no birdhouses. Do you think you could come up with something dark and mysterious for my bathouses? It actually takes 3-5 years for them to roost there but they do wonders for the mosquito poulation. They ring my pond; more elegant and environmentally concious than a bug-zapper.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this
The GM has just confirmed that I’ve been designated for assignment…I must return to work as a public school teacher tomorrow or wait 10 days to be traded or released.
By Glass Half Full
July 30, 2006 11:20 PM | Link to this
Since the Braves are off tomorrow, I wonder what’s on TBS tomorrow night?
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 11:20 PM | Link to this
Hey, Grinch! Yeah, I think I can. In fact, I’ve been working on a prototype that is on the line of old English-woodsy-elf type thing that might adapt rather well. The edges are rounded unevenly (using chisel and Dremel) giving it an aged, deep woods appearance. Sorta. Is that what you had in mind or something more gothic?
By Lew
July 30, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this
Journalist Bob-That was a veritable murderer’s row, wasn’t it. Were you the tallest of the bunch? Tech, you say. You do realise I’m a bulldog, don’t you?
By Lew
July 30, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this
I miss The Varsity!
By Lew
July 30, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this
Glass-Don’t worry dude, we’ll pick up your option, just don’t hire Boras as your agent.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this
We definitley need some help in the rotation. As I can see right now, unless JS pulls a rabbit out of the hat, Kip Wells and Tony Armas are our best options at a starter. I like the idea of Mark Redman but I think the points that have been made about Dayton Moore knowing the orginization inside and out are valid. He would demand some high prospects. I still think something big is going down. The Braves either have to get so many hitters that it offsets the pitching or some starting pitching. I guess after this lovely weekend series JS has to decided if the Braves are buyers or sellers.
And I still say trading Hudson and/or Andruw by tomorrow could come back and bite this team straight in its rear end.
By Bob, journalist
July 30, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this
Grinch, both Sam and I were on the right side of the hall while Dews was on the left, looking at it from the entrance of the building … and of course, I was at the extreme end.
Double order of fries with 5 dogs (chili & onions) and a large NIPC … my standing order, midnight 4 times a week … Mr. Gordy got rich off of little guys like me with a big appetites.
Maybe Lew could work up some appropriate art that could be used as wall paper in the bat abodes.
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this
Hey, Glass! TBS will probably show their other movie tomorrow night…
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this
Journalist Bob is a bee among bulldogs, god bless him…and probably the only one I know I’d protect from harm. Carolina Lady, that sounds intriguing; though it’s completely impossible to be too gothic for me. Gargoyles perch upon many on overlook of Grinch mannor, and the inside is straight out of the dark ages (though with a touch of ancient Egyptian and oriental flavours here and there…If you have a website, please to send the link to voton1066@yahoo.com; I’d be delighted to peruse your work. When I update my own site in a few days (Friday is my personal deadline); I’ll pass it on to you if you’re interested.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this
Thinking out loud here. What is JS thinking right now? Is he thinking that we should become sellers? If so, then who goes. The majority of the payroll is tied up in the Jones, Hudson, and Hampton. Well, Hampton isn’t going anywhere since he’s on the DL. Chipper isn’t going anywhere since he can and will veto any trade. Besides, no matter what anyone says he is the face of the franchise. Who does that leave? Andruw and Hudson whose contracts are “affordable” and in Andruw’s case he will be a 10/5 after THIS
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 30, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this
What are the Braves to do? Are they to be buyers or sellers? Should they stay pat? Can this team as currently constructed get into the playoofs?
Well, I truly believe they are the best of the wild card contenders but they don’t play like it. The fact is if Horacio and Hudson can start pitching like they are capable of doing then this team is just fine. With Smoltz anchoring the rotation those three can carry the rotation and take the pressure off of Chuck James until Davies comes back in two or three weeks. The fact of the matter James was put in an impossible position today. He had to be a stopper. He is not supposed to be the stopper. I have to admit I thought he would pitch a lot better than he did, but he is just a kid and shouldn’t have to be the stop gap. That was Hudson’s job on Saturday.
This offense is good but definitely could use another hitter who is a contact hitter and who can steal bases. Say what you will about Furcal but at least he stole bases.
Now that we are more or less 16 hours away from the deadline the front office has to decide what to do. Either we go get another starter and sacrifice a hitter or two or we go get another big hitter and hope we can score enough runs on most days to win the game and if our starters get their head out of their a** all the better. Unfortunately, even if we do make the playoffs, we will see another early exit because playing home run derby doesn’t do as well in October as it does in the regualar season. As I said before, if the Mets don’t get another starter, they will find that out.
I personally think this team can be both buyers and sellers. I feel we have a couple of guys that could be traded that would make this team younger and cheaper and still keep us in contention this year. And if we did wind up falling out of contention, we would sure be in contention next year.
I’m telling you all right now if I were JS I’m on the phone with Andruw right now or at a Denny’s somewhere and I’m asking…no demanding to know if he has any intention of re-signing a new contract. I would have to have some sort of binding promise. Because if not, his agent Scott Boras will be holding this orginization at gun point.
By Tonight on TBS
July 30, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this
The story of an optimistic teacher in a pessamistic world…struggling daily to teach young gang-bangers how to scratch their name in the mud with a stick so as to make something of their lives instead of living (and dying) in a hail of drug-related gunfire…they resent him and call him names, even threaten him physically, but he remains steadfast and makes a connection with Travis, a notorious pimp who happens to have a hidden singing talent. Travis desperately wants to break out of the situation he’s in, and knows GHF is his only ticket, but the law of the territory is too deeply ingrained. GHF finally convinces him, after many a tense, dramatic scene to show up at the school talent show and expose his gift. The other gang-bangers laugh at first, but by the final scene they all join in clapping and cheering and GHF tells the principal (who laughed at him all along) to stuff his promotion, walking with head held high down the hallway to the cheers of all the student body, even Travis’ rival pimp who gives GHF a respectful nod during the final tense moment, allowing him to exit in peace and adoration.
By Carolina Lady
July 30, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this
Grinch: Ahhhh, Egyptian and oriental flavors….lots of possibilities there! I do have a website, but it shows only a few basic pieces with which I started. Just as it was being launched, my mother had to come live with me (she’s elderly, frail, in poor health, etc) and my free time suddenly became almost non-existant. Thus, eveything that has evolved and developed since is not online. But the parts and prototypes are here in my work area. And yes! I would love to have the link. I’ll email you. :-))
By The Grinch
July 30, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this
Followed by back-to-back-to-back episodes of “Seinfeld.” Can Y’all tell I need another drink? Be back momentarily…
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 31, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this
I was watching the Angels/Red Sox game tonight and I was observing Vlad Guerrero. That guy swings at everything. Kind of like someone else I know. Then I thought back to Vlad’s younger days and remember how he was heavily criticized for his free swinging ways. I even remember a lot of “experts” saying that he would never be a true star, or be able to carry a team, and that he was a liability to his team. Of course, now those guys would never admit to saying that but they did. It got me to thinking how I know some who is just like ‘ol Vlad. I then remember Felipe Alou saying he wouldn’t tinker with Vlad because that’s how he is and that he just needs to make adjustments. Felipe said he would be fine. People laughed and called old man Alou a fool for saying such ridiculous things. “This guy swings at pitches thrown in the on deck circle. He will never be a true major league hitter. He is just too wild”, the critics said. Again, I know someone like that…………Who is it?……Hmmmmmmm…….Oh, I remember. His name is Jeffrey Francoeur. Yes, young Jeffrey who frustrates me and you just like Vlad frustrated Felipe Alou and the Expo fans. Yes, Mr. Francoeur who like Vlad when he came up to the majors is very young and raw and needs time to devlop properly. Jeff Francoeur who was called a bust by SI and a “weakness” by Keith Law of ESPN is second in the majors (yeah, the Major Leagues that one Albert Puljos patroles) in two out RBI and first in the majors in RBI after the 7th inning.
My point with all this is that Francoeur will be fine. We just have to be patient. And remember even as he matures he will still be swining at anything. I saw Vlad swing at a pitch that was literally 10 inches inside on him.
By Carolina Lady
July 31, 2006 12:09 AM | Link to this
Good night, all! A safe night and peaceful sleep! (TBS, you are so funny! Jimmy, right?)
By TennesseePaul
July 31, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this
Lew: I’m not sure how much he’ll sign for. I think whatever happens with Carlos Lee and Alfonso Soriano this winter will be a bench mark. But I think he’s totally capable of being resigned. And I think it will be a while before he is “broken down” or “washed up”. He’s only 29.
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this
Yes, Carolina Lady; I am familiar with the mother situation (though mine is still independant in theory, you wouldn’t know it in practice). Most of the oriental things I have are Kubuki masks designed (like gargoyles) to scare off evil spirits. One needs these things in a house this old and with this much blood in the soil (Hood billited here in 1864). As for the Egyptian flair; there’s plenty of it. Even my downstairs shower curtain is all hieroglyphics. I had a statue of Anubis at my bedside, but I buried him with my beloved bulldog a few months ago to watch over her spirit. Anyhoo, I’m sure 90% of the people here give a rip; just pontificating. I think we still have a marginal chance of making the playoffs with another move or two for middling starting pitching or a big bat or two, but I think it may also be prudent to stockpile for next year as best we can.
By Bob, journalist
July 31, 2006 12:18 AM | Link to this
At 6.0 feet tall, you can’t really call Aybar “wee willy” but I’ll take 4 for 5 while he gets his bearings. No, the first at bat didn’t count … New town, new team, big crowd, leading off against a cinch HOF lefty … it wouldn’t be fair. Wilson Who??
The Buttermint Babe is still tops in my book, except when we play the Dodgers!
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this
No, C.L., that was ME! Arrrgh. I guess I’m gonna have to start signing everything. Robert, I agree Francoer will be a superstar. However, Vlad can get away with it more than anyone because he can hit ANYTHING, no matter where it’s pitched. I’ve seen him drive something shoetop level 425 feet. Long arms, long bat, good eye and high bat speed. Hard to beat. Frenchy will have his day, though…
By brian
July 31, 2006 12:22 AM | Link to this
wishful thinking to come here in hopes of reading about the Braves picking up another piece of the puzzle. I do like what they have done so far. I was pissed about Betemit being traded 2 days ago, but Aybar’s 4 hits and ability to play leadoff sure helped my sorrow. If Baez accepts his set up role this year and then is reasonable in the offseason, he could easily be our closer next year.
Interesting that the Marlins supposedly put Willis on waivers which he will not clear until after the deadline to announce they will not trade him (you cannot trade someone who is on waivers), but the other way to look at it is if he clears this waiver then he will be eligible to be traded for another month
By Bob, journalist
July 31, 2006 12:23 AM | Link to this
Lew, when I was a kid, going to the Varsity was a weekly family outing … the best part was when the car hop jumped on the running board as we turned in off of North Avenue. I guess Daddy gave pretty good tips ‘cause we always seemed to get the same one and service was always good!
No, Dews was the tallest of the three of us but that’s not saying too much. Sam was more of an athlete than most folks realize … winning the freshman “rat” race; the first of many.
Did I say Tech? I remember it best as the Trade School on North Avenue … but, I actually learned my trade farther downtown at the Atlanta Division after it had become Georgia State College.
Lew, there’s nothing wrong with bulldogs, many of us keep them as pets.
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 12:26 AM | Link to this
Bob, if I wasn’t 1 3/4 sheets to the wind, I’d drive up to the Varsity right now. I do have fresh ground round and a large number of tomatoes and habaneros from my garden; I suppose I could make a chilli. Mmmmnnn. Yes. I even have a 5-pound sack of Vidalia onions…
By Head Coach
July 31, 2006 12:35 AM | Link to this
Trading hudson would be the same as admitting the season is over. Schuerholz isnt ready to throw in the towel. Chipper is a probable hall of fame third baseman. However , his constant nagging injuries and big contract makes for one hell of a problem for the Braves. When he is healthy he is as productive as any third baseman , when he is on the DL he is a big hole in the lineup and its a vexing problem for everyone , Chipper included.
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this
Hello folks, just got back from Ryan Adams show at Tabernacle. Good show, but could be great if he’d cut down on some of the silly banter between songs and cut out a few of his piano numbers. Glad I stayed till the end of the nearly 2-hour show, because the last 30 minutes were easily the best. He finally started rocking and playing the best of his best stuff.
Anyway, I’ve seen him a couple times and realize now that’s just his personality, talking so much between songs. I love good banter with a performer and crowd, but he gets a bit carried away just goofing, not telling stories or anything like a Springsteen. The show needs to be more seamless, instead of these 2-3 minute breaks between every freakin’ song.
Let’s put it this way: Van Hunt the night before at Smith’s Olde Bar blew Ryan Adams away. I’m dead serious. Twice the performer.
Anyway … back to Braves and The Man in Black. Or at least to Braves:
Lew, don’t count on Aybar being second baseman next season. That’s getting ahead of ourselves. Don’t know that he even plays the position well enough; he’s played third base mostly in recent years.
The Braves would be content to have him as utility guy like Betemit next season, and have one of their other young kids, perhaps, play second base, like Prado. I’m pretty certain they’ll have someone other than Orr for the other utility role if Aybar is a backup, because they’d want a shortstop.
Of course, if Aybar hits over .300 with a great OBP, then they might just see how well he can play over there at 2B in winter ball or next spring.
Someone asked about Andruw’s 10/5 status. It kicks in in mid-August, after which he can veto any trade.
Just an awful weekend for the Bravos. Staring pitching couldn’t have been more disappointing, and Hudson … I don’t know. I asked him specifically again about his health, and he said he feels great.
Folks, unless he flicks a switch and pitches great the rest of the season, he’s untradeable even if the Braves wanted to deal him, I think. Who’s going to bite on that contract and pay him $6 mill in 2007 (that part’s fine) and then $13 mill in 2008 and $13 mill in 2009 (those parts, not so fine).
Braves don’t pay chunks of salary for guys to go away, or at least they haven’t. So I don’t see that happening. They just have to get him turned around, someway, somehow. Or have an albatross around their necks (and they have to hope Hampton comes back strong, or could have two big-a$% deals that are unmoveable.
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this
Bob, my aforementioned bulldog was a better and more loyal and loving friend to me than anyone else I knew during her lifetime, including my family. I can’t think of three people worth what she was; and hope to find her like again. I happen to feel not a whole heck of a lot less about my ‘Dawgs; which shows how much respect for you I have that I haven’t roasted you yet! Remember, there’s a Varsity in Athens, too! You, however, are a gentleman and a scholar, and I hereby exempt you from my withering remarks about the North Avenue Trade School (Nats). I even wish you luck against Notre Dame in your opener (if for no other reason than to build up false hope for your November thrashing)! :-)
By geauxbraves2000
July 31, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this
If the Braves would’ve won the series vs the Mets, or at least won one game, I could see JS making another deal. But now, who knows? I don’t think the Braves are dead in the wild card race, yes they do have one foot in the grave, but I still think they have a chance. I hope JS doesn’t take this series to stand pat. There has got to be a starter out there worthy of trading for at not too high of a price.
I agree with Grinch, 6-0 road trip. It’s not a must, but it is as close as it gets.
Good nite all, looking foward to refreshing my browser all day tomorrow to see who goes where.
Geaux Braves!!
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 12:42 AM | Link to this
DOB, that would indeed be awful, if they both decide to suck. However, I’ve always kind of liked Hampton and think he’ll do well next season. Hudson, I don’t know about. I’m kind of hoping Steinbrenner will take him on if for nothing else to free up enough salary to pay someone else the same amount to do better. I just don’t have confidence in the man.
By Daytona Beach Seabreeze
July 31, 2006 12:44 AM | Link to this
Hello All, and wow what an interesting year it has been for our Braves. At times, we looked like the front runner and easy favorite for the wild card, and spells where we looked as if we couldnt beat the Carolina Mudcats of the Double-A southern league (who I believe are dead last) What is the culprit for such a lousy season? The Bullpen!!! We all new that last off-season, if we where going to get a proven and reliable closer, we where going to have to over pay. No ifs, ands, or buts. Thats just the way the market is, and there was notthing really J.S. could do about it. So how and why does the dean of baseball GM’s do this? He has gotten away with it in yrs past, thats why. Granted he had Smoltz in there awhile, but lets face it…we got very lucky with Hammond, Gryboski, Holmes etc.
Now, if the season is truly lost, wouldnt it make sense to possibly look into trading Smoltz? I think so. Had it been a little earlier, I’m sure the Tigers would have been willing to part with Zumaya, much as they say they wouldnt have.
Shout out to my boy Xavier Lee QB FSU!!
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this
G’night, Geaux. Things always look better in the morning, unless you’re hungover…:-)
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this
Amazing thing is, they’re STILL just 6-1/2 out of the wild-card lead. It has to be the most unimpressive wild-card field since the advent of the thing.
I mean, it’s wide open. Even though Braves are waaay back in 10th again. Remember how quickly they picked off a handful of those teams before? And then look how quickly they fell back.
I thought they had a 50-50 shot a week ago at wild card, maybe even 60-40. Now … not feeling it now. They’re not out of it, but the starting pitching, outside of Smoltz, is just a crapshoot. And I don’t think John is going to make a move tomorrow for a starter. Might do a waiver deal later, but it wouldn’t be a big name guy, I’d bet.
Bobby would love to have Maddux back for stretch, stats this season be damned. But Braves aren’t in that mix. They really need to have Davies come back strong in 2-3 weeks, if they’re still close enough by then. And obviously need to have Chuck and Horacio avoid disaster like they had against the Mets.
Hudson … well, see above. Don’t have a clue what to expect. Keep waiting for him to snap out of it, but it ain’t happening. How about how Oakland’s former Big 3 _ Hudson, Zito, Mulder _ have done since they got broken up? Strange. Every one of them has dropped significantly or been hurt seemingly half the time.
By Daytona Beach Seabreeze
July 31, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this
Journalist Dave…..Say the Braves do shop Giles in the winter, what kind of return could he possibly net them?
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this
Just watching Baseball Tonight, and Aybar’s swing really did look good, didn’t it? Who knows, Braves may indeed have a leadoff guy for future…
We’ll see. Pretty impressive, though, consider he was 1-for-15 against lefties before today, having played almost exclusively against righties with Dodgers. He went 2-for-3 against Glavine, and the kid obviously wasn’t bothered by being thrust into the leadoff role in his first game for his new team.
Alright, gonna get off the net here and shower (that Tabernacle for a summer show is a sauna on the floor in general-admission area)
If I hear anything in morning regarding trade talks, I’ll try to get it posted soon as possible here.
By Daytona Beach Seabreeze
July 31, 2006 12:57 AM | Link to this
Anyone catch the clips of the massive rain delay at Pitt? Kruk could not contain himself. He had a serious case of the giggles. To bad Reynolds wasn’t there to calm him down.
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 12:57 AM | Link to this
Oh, no; not FSU in the house…well, I suppose y’all did give us Richt. DBS, yeah, there could be some sense in unloading Smoltz (if he wanted to go), but the thing to be considered is that he’s an Atlanta icon. He’s the only starting pitcher we have worth a s$#t, and he’s been here his whole big league career. Glavine was here 17 years, made umpteen million dollars, rich beyond his wildest dreams, then took 33 mil. from the Mets instead of 30 mil. to stay with the Braves. He lost his two front teeth in the process, as befits the greedy b&%$#@d that he is. Maddux screwed us in arbitration, then left. Avery blew his arm out by 25. Smoltz is the only pitcher left from the nucleus with any integrity, and we don’t want to lose him.
By Daytona Beach Seabreeze
July 31, 2006 01:00 AM | Link to this
Im out as well, lots of real estate work lies ahead, showing houses all day tomorrow. Thanks for the info DOB. Good job as always.
By voice of reason
July 31, 2006 01:03 AM | Link to this
Solid points Grinch. And yes, I did catch Kruk on BBT, what a suit! Too bad they fired Harold, him and Kruk were a perfect team. Oh well.
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 01:04 AM | Link to this
One last thought: That Yankees lineup, when Sheff and Matsui get back, is absurd. It’s practically an All-Star lineup. Just ridiculous.
Grinch, I’ll say it again, now more than ever after what we’ve witnessed the past three days from Braves starters: No way they trade Smoltz and his $8 mill salary next season. No way, no how.
And by the way, Schuerholz and I were talking two days ago and I mentioned something about how the Smoltz rumors had died finally, and he said adamantly, they NEVER discussed trading him, it was entirely generated by the media after Smoltz’s edited comments to ESPN fueled the flames.
Anway, that’s old news. We move on…
Good night, denizens of the blogosphere.
By Daytona Beach Seabreeze
July 31, 2006 01:07 AM | Link to this
Well, as much as I dont like the deal myself, it probably makes the most sense in the long run. I mean, if you could get Zumaya along with another top pitching prospect you’d think J.S. would be stupid not to do it. Joel looks like a stud closer for the next 10-15 yrs. Basically, in my mind, the deal would be a hell of alot easier to make if Hudson had 10+ wins and an era under 3. Aside from Smoltz, we can run our 4 other starters out there and get bombed every night. Its just a crap shoot as of right now. And its unfortunate. Im sure it makes J.S.’s knuckles go white at the thought of paying Huddy $13+ mill per and Hampton $16(?) per. And neither are absolutely no sure thing. Lets hope the baseball Gods are watching over us.
By Bob, journalist
July 31, 2006 01:09 AM | Link to this
Grinch, it’s sometimes best to travel incognito like some not so brave, Braves do after a loss … but had Myles always properly identified himself, John and Miss Priss might not have wed … and Henry’s little poem would have never been written or read.
By Daytona Beach Seabreeze
July 31, 2006 01:10 AM | Link to this
Kruk always has fantastic suits.
By Daytona Beach Seabreeze
July 31, 2006 01:13 AM | Link to this
Matsui and Sheff are no sure thing. Just take a gander at how DLee has done since his return. Basically a non factor. Those wrist injuries are hard to come back from.
But yes, there lineup is sick. But there pitching is in shambles, so I think the Twins could take them in a short series. Actually, come to think of it, I think the Twinkies could take any team thrown at them from the western hemisphere.
By flbravesgirl
July 31, 2006 01:16 AM | Link to this
I haven’t posted lately due to computer malfunctions, hopefully it’ll work this time.
I’m not disappointed Sosa’s gone. He drove me crazy all year. It’s so strange that the bullpen is improving and the starters have totally fallen apart.
Grinch, I would love your place! Design Toscano has some great gargoyles (and other gothic/medievel stuff).
By Lew
July 31, 2006 01:18 AM | Link to this
DOB-Got a cd this weekend you’ve got to get. Wishbone Ash just put out a new album, that is totally eclectic. It’s got influences everywhere from country to Jan and Dean, the Allmans, and Crazy Horse. Excellent guitar. If you get it and don’t like it, I’ll buy it from you. Check it out. Bob, there used to be a Varsity right across from the Arches in Athens. Many chili cheese burgers were consumed with huge quantities of onion rings. Probably why I’m diabetic now. But it sure was good. Oh yeah, The CD is called Clan Destiny.
By Bob, journalist
July 31, 2006 01:18 AM | Link to this
Who is this intellegent, educated and witty person pretending to be our David O’B … The Grinch is at it again, right? Denizens of the blogosphere, indeed!
By Bob, journalist
July 31, 2006 01:27 AM | Link to this
Lew, I remember the Varsity in Athens … as I recall, we got our food there to take with us to the games; a warm fuzzy if you will. I liked the rings too but they had to be real hot or I couldn’t take the grease.
By Crazy Bastard
July 31, 2006 01:30 AM | Link to this
I’d hate to be in the locker room after a game now that Bob Wickman (250lbs) is on the team. Him and Paronto (240lbs) are, I’m sure, the first ones in the shower, right after they peel off there jock straps/training bras!
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 01:49 AM | Link to this
Bob, surely you’re not attributing intelligence, wit and education to me? My goodness, I thought your only oversights had to do with college football! :-) BTW, NONE of us can handle the grease dispensed by the Varsity, nor can any living human. The entrees we’ve described tonight should come with a rib divider. Like the literary reference; subtle as usual. DOB, I agree, the point of my post was to say Smoltz shouldn’t go anywhere. FlBraves girl; I’m not familiar with the name you mentioned…do they have a website? BTW, you are always welcome at Grinch mannor, as are most (but NOT ALL) Braves fans on this blog. I have a mean grill, and a mighty liquor cabinet! :-)
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 01:54 AM | Link to this
I’m wide awake. I hope I’m not the only one…
By Bob, journalist
July 31, 2006 01:58 AM | Link to this
Florida Lady, computer malfunctions are part of my daily life … today the registry showed 169 errors and the machine locked up every time I attempted to save anything … maybe it gave me the virus ‘cause now I have the sniffles and the computer’s doing fine.
Sosa will be fine too … he had his hour or two upon the stage and while he might be heard no more, his pockets are full of gold … and with his stuff, he might well wind up making more than just sound and fury in the future.
If first impressions are worth a hoot, our GM may be the wise old owl that some folks tout him to be … Willy Aybar looked better than advertised.
Excluding Smoltz, the starting pitchers all seem a bit too “mechanical” lately and I wonder it that doesn’t lend itself to being “read” by the opposition … few pitchers can be successful when the hitters have a good idea as to what’s coming.
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 02:02 AM | Link to this
Bob, I’ll admit you lost me with the Sosa/Faulkner reference…Do tell.
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 02:43 AM | Link to this
Guess I’m the only one awake. Brian Finneran just shredded his knee in training today; the Falcons offense is screwed. Not good, Hank. Gonna go mourn; see Y’all later.
By Bob, journalist
July 31, 2006 02:53 AM | Link to this
Grinch, I’ll never tell but that was a tale being told by this idiot and it signified absolutely nothing … the only thing I remember about William Falkner is when he used to come down to the Spaghetti House in Monterey and watch a young Kim Knovac get tipsy and dance on the tables … she was a site to behold. Now, if you’re talking about old John Meade Falkner, that’s a different story, back before Miss Knovac was old enough to drink … but neither knew Jorge and neither were intentionally referenced.
Methinks that both you and David O’B are intelligent, witty and well grounded in your letters … and if you need culture, there’s always the Petrie dish.
By berigan
July 31, 2006 03:13 AM | Link to this
For anyone still up, check out the wild and crazy rumors at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 03:34 AM | Link to this
Journalist Bob; I’m eating a freshly fried country ham, fresh tomatoe (from Grinch garden), vidalia onion, coarse ground pepper, garlic salt and mayo sandwich on 12-grain bread in your honnor. Or maybe in honnor of my stomach. Let’s make it a dual thing. I thought you were hitting Faulkner’s “The Sound and the Fury” with your last reference to Sosa, but perhaps that was a reach, as most of my puns are. I should be aware by now that your references are much tighter and make a great deal more sense than my own pitiful clenches. As for me and DOB; he’s way beyond acknowledging so small a man as I (:-)…and my cultural contributions to the petri dish of life are legion. I have since had several penecillin shots and all is now well with me! My, what a tasty sandwich…thank you, Bob, for being you and for being up often when I am; makes me feel a bit less of a leper.
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 03:39 AM | Link to this
Interesting stuff, Berigan. I think I would now make great inroads towards tommorrow’s productivity level if I took a snooze…G’night, all!
By berigan
July 31, 2006 04:09 AM | Link to this
Grinch, sleep is overrated!!!!!! Was checking out stats at Yahoo, and if you want proof for that Giles should never again bat leadoff, look at these numbers!!! http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6624/situational;_ylt=Aqg1ufUssq0X1IhxMuq.PgeFCLcF
By berigan
July 31, 2006 04:59 AM | Link to this
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/milking-it.html
By berigan
July 31, 2006 05:22 AM | Link to this
ARRRGGGHH!!!! Sorry!!! please ignore last post!!! It’s political, and has no place on this board.(Wish we could edit posts!) I was trying to post a link about Jason Schmidt possibly going to the Mets, and I guess I didn’t copy the link, and an old link showed up. Now, I can’t find the Schmidt on, except for the mention of it on the MLB rumor site….Should be in bed….gee, and I had this funny line about how maybe we could trade whoever we got back for Jason Schmidt, back to San Fran….
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 06:36 AM | Link to this
Well, if the Braves stand pat, they are certainly done for this year if not next year as well. Hudson simply has to go somewhere else. I still believe a team would take a chance on Hudson. With such a lack of pitching available, he must have some value. Again, I know his salary escalates in 2008, but they may entice a team to take a chance. They have the rest of this year and all of next year to get him straightened out. If not, they work some 3 team deal where every team in the league pays his salary sort of like the Braves did with Hampton. He certainly has more value than Hampton did when the Braves traded for him. I still think the Sox would take a shot if they offered Crisp for Buerhle, but that’s just my opinion.
Regards,
Jason
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this
Hey Aybar looks like Betemit doesn’t he..oh, he doesn’t…..maybe it is just me.
DOB, just for reasonings sake and nothing else, exactly how are the Braves going to pass 9 teams being 7 games out to boot? My math (such as it is) says we have to go at least 7 games over .500 the rest of the way while hoping everyone ahead of us for the most part plays sub .500 ball. This of course assumes nobody below us plays better than we do the rest of the way.
I want to believe we can make the wild card but that is because I am such a homer. The reality is that numbers don’t lie and JS is looking at those numbers too. He may think we can stand pat at the deadline today and make the wild card but that is ludicrous. That is just mediaspeak from the GM. He may indeed have something he wants badly in a trade but in reality it may not come until the off season. Thus by trading now he may not get what he wants later. In other words he may actually have to pass on trading for a possibility at an improved chance to get the wild card for a significantly improved chance of being a front runner next year. He has to keep the natives at bay by actually saying that he thinks we can do it now with what we have. What else would anyone expect him to say, right?
I don’t want us to give up on the wildcard but I actually feel we need to get a decent starter in trade today. Look Smoltz if very good and should have 6 more wins than he does but we don’t even have a #2 or #3 starter or anyone playing like they are. We can’t wait until 3 weeks from now when Davies comes back and expect him to be the savior right off the bat.
” I wish I didn’t know now what I didn’t know then…. I wish I could start this whole thing over again…. I’m not saying that you would ever be true I just don’t want to know how it ends”.
By KC
July 31, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine:
“if the Braves stand pat, they are certainly done for this year if not next year as well.”
NEXT YEAR???
Why in the world would they be done for next year??
Hampton’s coming back (and will have had the full recommended 18 month recovery time from TJ surgery). Also Boyer and Foster should be healthy and ready to help in the bullpen.
We have no key players eligible for free agency this winter.
What part of that makes you think the Braves hopes for next year are anything less than encouraging?
By Jeff
July 31, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this
Postscript: Braves didn’t salvage the series against the Mets, sad to say. Truth is, what the Mets’ swept away over the weekend was the fantasy that the Braves had what it took to win the wildcard and, who knows, upend all the NL division winners and make it to the World Series.
What’s left is the cold, hard reality that Schuerholz and his crew have some rebuilding to do for 2007. Given the core of good, young players on the team, given some of the kids rising through the farm system, with some astute acquistions, this team can most certainly be competitive again in 2007.
The time to start is now.
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this
Jason, dude, next year will be addressed in trades this off season and players recovering from injuries. We will extend Andrews contract or trade him for a lot of help. I am not even counting on Hampton at all. I will give him a chance without bashing him though so we will see there. Hampton would be a bonus is all I can say and with the money he will be making I hope so. The winter meetings are going to be very interesting.
Oh man…….It just sunk in what DOB responded to a blogger about Andruw’s 10/5 status taking effect in AUGUST! Am I missing something here or what. Somebody please help me with this because I don’t want to come off as ignorant wait…oh I have. Anyway shouldn’t JS be trying to renegotiate Andruws’ contarct now prior to the 10/5 so he will stay a Brave which he wants to do. If Boras is telling Andruw to stay pat that will surely drive up Andruws’ price and indications are that Andruw will fall to the same fate Maddux did. Basically we would have to pass on Andruw unless we pay him god-awful money thanks to Boras. Being a 10/5 guy he could veto any trade play out his contract decide Atlanta is great but Yankees and 10 mil more is better. Oops we lose again. I’m only remembering that we don’t have Uncle Ted and instead Liberty Media corporation that is writing the checks.
Does JS really think he will be able to pay Andruw what he will command on the open market. Man, recent deals don’t indicate that at all. Again I am ignorant so I will defer to greater minds but trading Andruw now for a really great deal that brings pitching(proven & prospects)isn’t going to hurt my feelings. I needn’t remind anyone that pro sports is big big business and the I want to stay a Brave for life just doesn’t fly with me. If Andruw wanted to stay a Brave a long time he would have told Boras to kiss off and extended his contract with Atlanta through say 2010 at least. I have to only assume JS has tried.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this
KB,
Foster? Who the heck is Foster? Do you think he is going to save the bullpen? Boyer should be able to make a contribution and I do look forward to getting him back.
Listen, Hampton had a great 2nd half in 04 and pitched pretty good last year, but there is NO guarantee that any pitcher comes back from TJ surgery and doesn’t have any issues. Are there instances of it? Lots of them…we have one on our team. But to rely on a 34 year old pitcher who has only one 20 games once and 15 games 3 times in his career and that hasn’t pitched in 18 months is going to come back and save the rotation is a little risky. Plus, that doesn’t change the fact that Hudson hasn’t pitched well, Horacio is inconsistent, and well, Chucky James has looked like the left handed version of Jorge Sosa lately. Listen, I understand that they are young and may get better. People keep bringing up the first few years of Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz as comparisons…you know what scares me about that? The Cubs and Braves were AWFUL when those pitchers were going through their “growing pains” and certainly didn’t contend for a title. So, if we want to allow Davies, James, and Horacio the same benefit of the doubt, it still stands to reason that none of them are going to be studs next year.
If the Braves stand pat before next season starts, do you think that Foster, Boyer, and Hampton are going to make a big enough difference to overcome the Mets? The bottom line is that the starting rotation isn’t very good, the lineup is one dimensional, and we still have no guarantee that any of the bullpen additions will be around longer than the next couple of months. I see no way that standing pat changes the faults of this team.
Regards,
Jason
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this
tick…tick….tick….tick. Is it 4:00 PM yet?
By KC
July 31, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this
JEFF:
The reality is that the Braves do have what it takes to win the wild card and even compete for a World Series.
In fact, on paper Atlanta now (that they’ve fixed the bullpen) has the best team in the NL. Problem is… games aren’t played on paper.
The personnel is there. The problem now is the underperformance of certain players, and injury. Obviously the biggest issue is Tim Hudson. The difference between the real Tim Hudson, and the Huddy we’ve seen for the last 6 weeks, will be a difference of at least 5-6 wins for the Braves the rest of the way. Certainly, 5, 6, or 7 games could very easily be the difference in the Wild Card race.
As far as the rest of the rotation is concerned, I wouldn’t worry too much. Yes things looked pretty awful over the weekend, but this rotation is much better than what they’ve shown us over the last week.
We don’t have to worry about Smoltz. Especially when it counts the most, he’ll deliver.
Horacio Ramirez despite Friday’s disappointment has still been very good for this team since his return from the DL in May. 8 of his 11 starts since then have been absolutely stellar. The other 3 (of those 11), well… not so good, including Friday’s disaster. But if you remove those 3 starts, his ERA in the other 8 was about 1.50. If you’re a manager, you’ll take a guy who almost completely shuts down the other team 8 out of every 11 starts.
It looks like Davies will be back in the rotation soon. When he returns, Chuck James will be our #5 starter. Yesterday was the first start he’s made in which he didn’t at least give Atlanta a chance to win the game. That’s all you really ask of a 5th starter… just give us a chance to win it.
When Chipper’s in the lineup, Atlanta’s offense is as good as any in the league.
With the additions of Wickman and Baez, to go along with Yates, Paronto, and McBride… Atlanta’s bullpen is now one of the best in the league. Still not quite as good as the Mets’ pen, but very good.
Smoltz, Hudson, and Ramirez at the top of this rotation along with a great offense and a solid bullpen ought to be enough to overcome 6.5 game deficit against a team like the Reds, with nearly 60 games still left to play.
But really, it’s on Hudson’s shoulders. If Hudson continues to pitch this way, the Braves are probably finished this year. If he turns it around quickly and convincingly, the Braves will still be very much in the Wild Card hunt, and even the World Series picture.
No, I’m not holding my breath… just hoping. It’s frustrating because the pieces are there.
By Head Coach
July 31, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this
O my ! after 104 games we are tied with the florida Marlins in the standings. At the all-star break the offense was ranked 14th and the pitching 18th and as of right now the offense is 12th and the pitching is 24th. does anybody realize the Marlins actually have a better team ERA (4.40 vs. 4.79) than the Braves do ? The Marlins , a rebuilding team has better pitching ? say it aint so , Joe !
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
KC,
I hear what you are saying, but I guess I am just not as sold as you are on the current roster. Again, the offense is one dimensional and I just do not have any faith in the starting rotation. The bullpen as it is currently constructed is pretty good. But, there are going to be times when you don’t hit 5 homers a game. When those times come, the Braves can’t win. They can’t manufacture runs and they can’t depend on their rotation to shut other teams down. Not a good combination. In the past, as everyone knows, the Braves were able to win because they could still beat teams in other ways. They can’t now. The homerun or strikeout ways of this lineup isn’t going to get it done.
Regards,
Jason
By Bob, journalist
July 31, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this
Grinch, it seems to me that I read that Faulkner Favorite … and, of course he read my best work too, written many years back under an assumed name. I graciously agreed to let him use that “Sound and Fury” title but the theif never paid me any of the promised royalties; steadfastly arguing that Americans didn’t write or speak Engilsh … nor recognize the claims of those who did.
I was a little surprised that you didn’t call my hand on my earlier tale involving Mr. Faulkner and Miss Kovak … actually based in truth and occurring while I was in “Cannery Row” … but involving John Steinbeck, not Bill Faulkner.
Baseball: Prediction … the Braves will not lose today, unless it’s in the form of a bad trade!
By journalist jimmy smith
July 31, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
a turtle was discovered this morning in journalist jimmy smith’s garden. perhaps this turtle is the culprit? turtle is cute in turtle sort of way so journalist has not yet removed said terrapin from the premises. now, where to start? lew, a bobby dews portrait would be useful. when bobby dews was lost for a time earlier in the season a poster might have helped in his recovery. the bobby cox portrait cannot be made - a walrus look with all the fingers in the … never mind. now, birdhouses … how does one go about purchasing such a birdhouse? carolina lady has a cottage industry underway? please teach this craft to baby seal. now, varsity … journalist has consumed many a chili steak and chili dog on north avenue. and who is daytona beach seabreeze? test - what famous seafood restaurant is/was under the seabreeze bridge? raisins? that you? now, tbs … soon the movie will deteriorate from constant use and they will be forced to buy a new one. lew, nice baseball museum. journalist has a modest baseball museum, too. several hof autographs. famous photo of atlanta fulton county stadium on fire. journalist had tickets that night in the box. that’s right, in the box. tickets are framed with photo. now, longest post in journalist’s history (this journalist) how long will it be before aybar realizes he is the only player swinging to get on base and modifies his swing to pull for power and popups? (not fair, also mccan and renteria - nobody else) just an observation.
By Sonny
July 31, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this
Why waste a blog on Sosa??? I thought you’d be talking about the Betemit trade DOB.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 31, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this
with apologies to the author of jack spratt …
todd pratt was anemic at bat there are many around just like that because of this state when he comes to the plate, he carries no bat, only a hat
how long will the bench be comprised of “p” players like pratt and pete orr?
By Billy
July 31, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this
My computer crashed along with my bank account to pay for the internet service so I now make my Ali like return to the blog.
The “Trade”. I thought it to be a very intelligent trade. WB was never gonna get an everday spot on this team. Now or in the future. Aybar is a cheap Major League ready prospect. That along with one more year of D. Baez make the future look good. I think this deal help a little this year and next. Not bad return for a guy who was never gonna play here. I like WB and wish him the best. I hope he turns in to a stud along with Aybar.
The Braves line up is not the same without CJ. I really doubt the team can compete in the wild card. Pitcher will just pitch around AJ. Clueless about the starting pitching. They are still my team but I might be making the customary baseball saying “wait till next year”.
P.S. Still gonna watch all the games though.
By Bob, journalist
July 31, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
Grinch, contrary to earlier rumors, Miss Kovak and Miss Knovac were both teetotalers who never danced or acted and neither knew Faulkner, Steinbeck or The Bard … it was the wonderful Miss Novac about whom those tales are true; give or take a lie or two.
By KC
July 31, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine:
Foster is nothing extraordinary but he’s a solid lefty. He pitched well for us last season, and will give Atlanta one more good lefty to go with McBride next season. That’s all I’m saying.
OK, on to Mike Hampton…
Hampton was a solid pitcher all through the mid-latter 90’s, but he really came into his own in 1999. Forget about the two seasons he spent with the Rockies. It takes a certain style of pitcher to succeed in Denver, and Hampton isn’t that type of pitcher. Remember Daryl Kile?
Since 99’ (excluding his 2 years in Colorado), Hampton’s ERA is 3.47, and he’s averaged 17 wins up until last year (he only made 12 starts).
When Hampton came to Atlanta, there was an expected adjustment period. His first ½-season in Atlanta was spent trying to get his mechanics and his head straight. (Both got thoroughly screwed up pitching in Colorado). The second half of the 2003 season, he was lights out with an ERA of well under 3.00. Then in the first half of 2004 he reverted little bit with his mechanics and was inconsistent, but by the all-star break he had completely settled in.
Hampton had to straighten out his problems from having pitched in Denver, but by the time he was placed on the DL last year, he was again considered one of the elite pitchers in the league. From the 2004 all-star break until he went on the DL last year, Hampton had an ERA of under 3.00 and was absolutely lights-out for Atlanta.
I’ll address his health in a separate post to avoid another eternal post.
By KC
July 31, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
Jason:
I’m not saying I’m sold on this roster in terms of believing that this team will accomplish everything it’s capable of. I’m just saying the talent’s there. Injury and underperformance have hurt this team, and there’s no way I can credibly predict that it won’t continue to hurt them.
Without a genuine Tim Hudson and a healthy Chipper, it’s going to be hard for this team to go anywhere.
By Don
July 31, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this
KC, while you’re airbrushing Ramirez’s record in an tortured attempt to support your indefensible hypothesis that he’s one of the best pitchers in the NL, you might also want to expunge the 2004 season from his career statistics. He led NL pitchers in gopher balls that year.
I thought Tim Hudson was all straightened out after that start in St. Louis when Bobby screwed up by not pulling him after 5 innings and 55 pitches. Two more early exits since then. Is it still the heat?
By KC
July 31, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine:
A couple more points on the Hampton thing:
As to Hampton’s health… There are very few pitchers that don’t fully recover from Tommy John surgery anymore. That’s a fact. And… “there is NO guarantee that any pitcher comes back from TJ surgery and doesn’t have any issues. Are there instances of it? Lots of them…we have one on our team.” What are you talking about???? You’re using Smoltz as a example to cast doubt on Hampton’s recovery chances???????
Smoltz returned from the surgery in 2001, it had been almost exactly 12 months since he had the surgery and his arm couldn’t hold up to work load of a starting pitcher just yet. The next season, he was back to full strength. Doctors insist that it takes a full 18 months to recover from ligament replacement surgery (and that’s exactly how long it will have been for Hampton come next spring). The only issue Smoltz has had since then was a scar tissue build-up in 2003 that affected him toward the end of the season. However, that wasn’t a structural problem, and really wasn’t a major issue at all. The only reason it was a problem was the timing of when it started bothering him. Anyway, no problems since, and here he is at 40 years old with as great a stuff as he’s ever had, AND was able to defy predictions of his critics and once again become a work-horse in the rotation. Smoltzy has been yet another TJ surgery success story, so I’m not really sure where you’re going with that.
And what are you talking about 34 like it’s old? 34 is not all that old, even in baseball years. Hampton is the same age as Jason Schmidt and many other elite players in the game. Hampton will have had the full 18 month recovery time, and there’s no reason not to expect good things from a great pitcher like Hampton next year.
In short: YES, I do think the Hampton will have a big impact on this rotation next year.
By ColumbusBuckeye
July 31, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this
FWIW, I think the trade was a very good one. This guy has the potential that Betemit had, but has a better OBS. Baez could very well be our closer next season. What kind of MPH does he have? What’s his best pitch?
I’m thinking that nothing big will go down today. The Braves seem to be in a mode where they are going to play it out….and hope for the light to stay on. Who knows? I’m just hoping that they’ll at least make it interesting, and build some momentum for next season.
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks 4:00PM is approaching we have a little over 5 hours to make a wild card push. No starting pitcher and the wild card is not going to happen.
Remember it is not the games out in the wild card it is the number of teams we have to leap frog that is the most important stat. I would rather be 9 games out and have to catch only one team than to be 6 1/2 out and have to catch 9 teams. Ouch!! So if the glaring need is not addressed by 4:00 then the off season is what we have to look forward to. Sorry to have to say it though. I actually think the Braves would do well as a wild card entry if they could get there. tick…tick…tick.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
KC,
Ah, the wonderful world of statistics…where you can make them say basically anything that you want them to. Interesting that you start your analysis with Hampton’s career year and exclude his two worst. By the way, even by your method, he only averaged 16 wins, not 17. In any event, let’s exclude the Colorado years for argument’s sake. Let’s go back to say, 98 instead of starting with his career year. His average wins is 15, still pretty good. But, if we are taking out the “bad anomalies”, let’s take out the one good year as well. Without that year, his average win total, still excluding the years in Colorado, for years that he has made at least 25 starts (I excluded the year he won 9 games and made 24 starts, well because these are my stats), he has averaged 13 wins a season. Still not too bad.
But, when you factor in the fact that he is 34, hasn’t pitched in 1.5 years, and has a career average of 13 wins, well I just would feel more comfortable if we were hanging our hats on a guy who say was 24, coming off of a 20-win season within the last couple of years, and was healthly (like a Dontrelle). That’s all. Hey, 13 wins a year isn’t bad. But, it isn’t going to save the rotation either. He could exceed his career averages. But, at this point in his career and with the layoff, is it a smart man’s bet?
Regards,
Jason
By Lew
July 31, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this
Dadgum- The 10-5 rule has absolutely nothing to do with Andruw’s contract negotiations. All it means is that the player does not have to accept a trade if he doesn’t want to go. Andruw’s 10-5 comes up in August because he came to the bigs for good in August of 96-hence his ten full years with at least five with the same team. JS is NOT going to trade him before this goes into effect.Don’t worry, Hampton is going to be fine. From all reports they could probably pitch him in late August. They are waiting until spring. He will be fine. For everyone concerned about his salary-the Braves prorated it at $8 mil per season so they wouldn’t have to pay so much now. He’s still pretty cheap.
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
Many a pitcher has returned from successful surgery to pitch well. Let’s give Hampton a shot before throwing around stats to prove a point that can only be proved on the field after he returns. In the same breath we can’t expect Hampton to be the answer.
Nobody is ready on the farm or any better than what we got. Certainly not in Richmond. Cormier is picthing terrible ditto Moylan. For the next two years we have to solidify the rotation with trades for proven starters not that that is a guarantee but odds are better. GO BRAVES!!
By Bob, journalist
July 31, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this
Jimmy, turtles never bothered our hostas … just squirrels. Of course, we didn’t have any turtles, just squirrels. Actually, we did have rabbits but they ate everything else and left the hostas for the squirrels and turtles, that we didn’t have.
Park’s closed … no game, just good food!
Eyebar seems to have a good one at the plate. I figgure that the reason it’s so hard to find a consistent leadoff hitter is because of the all time they spend on deck watching pitchers and benchwarmers try to hit.
Cheers!
By KC
July 31, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this
Don:
I have felt for a while that HoRam is becoming one of the best left-handers in the game. He made me look bad Friday… no doubt about it.
I’m not airbrushing anything. The fact of the matter is that HoRam has been either feast or famine this year for Atlanta.
Again, he’s made 11 starts for the Braves since his return from the DL in May. In 8 of those starts, he has an ERA of about 1.50.
In the other 3, I don’t even need to do the math. Sufficed to say… he was pretty awful in those 3 starts.
Still, a guy that completely shuts down the other team 8 out every 11 stars is a valuable guy to have on your team. HoRam has got to find a way to avoid these periodic meltdown starts before his talents are noticed. Personally, I think he will.
And I’m well aware of HoRam’s previous struggles with the longball. It was actually 2005 when he gave up all the homers. In 2004 he had a 2.39 ERA in an injury shortened season. But home runs really haven’t been much of an issue for him this season. R.McDowell has him sinking the ball nicely this season. Even in his poor starts, he hasn’t given up many homers.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this
The one thing that most people overlook about the return of Hampton-he knows how to pitch. When he returns, his only concern will be with mechanics. Also, keep in mind Mike is definitely cut from the same mold as Smoltz. The guy is a gamer. How long did he pitch effectively with a shot knee and arm trouble. He will be fine. As far as the 13 win thing. Give me five 13 game winners on the staff and I’ll win you the division.
By Daytona Beach Seabreeze
July 31, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
Oswalt to the Orioles for Tejada almost went down. Not sure that deal makes any sense. The Astros have always been strongest with pitching. Regardless if there offense is atrocious, I’d rather have Oswalt in a short series than Tejada in my lineup.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
KC,
No, I was not using Smoltz as an example. I was indicating that yes, I know there are plenty of examples of pitchers coming back from TJ surgery and having success. But, how is AJ Burnett faired this year after his TJ surgery? Victor Zambrano needs a 2nd one and his career is in jeapordy (not that he is a good pitcher, but the surgery in of itself does not guarantee that future issues won’t arise), and history suggests that the first year back is not all peaches and cream.
Here is an excerpt from an article a few years ago in USA Today:
The reconstructive surgery John first underwent in the mid-1970s has become so commonplace that it’s easy to forget how difficult it can be to recover. Seemingly every team has at least one pitcher who’s had it, and many clubs have several. Some of the more flippant pundits have even suggested that every young pitcher should have the surgery — to “get it out of the way” and, presumably, go on to enjoy a longer, healthier career.
Such optimism about subjects of the procedure might have more than a little to do with the spectacular post-surgery success of its namesake. Perhaps if, say, Wayne Garland had pitched for 26 years, pitchers today might speak of undergoing “Wayne Garland surgery” instead of rotator cuff surgery.
John was very much the exception, though. His 164 post-surgery victories remained unsurpassed until last year, when David Wells eclipsed it. (Wells had the surgery in his early 20s, as a minor leaguer.)
Even John, for all his success, was not tremendously impressive in his first full season back. He did manage to top 200 innings, but his record was only 10-10 on a strong Dodgers team that was 92-70 overall. His first real post-surgical breakout came the following year, when he won 20 games for the first time. That pattern illustrates the typical progression for starting pitchers who have Tommy John surgery: Middling results at best during the first year back, and a full recovery only in the second full season, if at all.
Take the starters who’ve come back from the surgery at the major league level during the last three years. The first thing that becomes obvious is how few of them there are. Last year there was Odalis Perez and Sterling Hitchcock, and before that there was Kerry Wood. (The limits might be stretched to include Osvaldo Fernandez and Ariel Prieto, who weren’t all that firmly established in the majors either before or after the surgery.)
Perez pitched at his old level of effectiveness last year before being stopped by an unrelated injury, and currently is pitching very well for the Dodgers. Hitchcock did quite well in his first few starts for the Padres, which prompted the Yankees to trade for him. He fared brutally for them for the remainder of the season and currently is on the DL with an unrelated injury. Wood threw only 137 innings, with vastly reduced effectiveness, in his first year post-surgery, but made it all the way back the following year.
Perhaps the most striking thing is that the two starters who have been the most successful — relative to expectations — have followed the same usage pattern. Both Matt Morris and Cory Lidle were limited to light bullpen work in Year 1, and rejoined the rotation with excellent results in Year 2.
For what it’s worth, John Smoltz had problems (both physical and ERA-related) as a returning starter, and only recovered his effectiveness after moving to the bullpen. Jason Isringhausen, a starter pre-injury, was moved to the pen and fared so well there that he’s never been moved back.
Going back a few years reveals one starter who did manage to throw 200 innings in his first full season back, at his old level of effectiveness: Cal Eldred. He paid for it though, soon developing complications — recurring stress fractures in his arm bone where surgeons had drilled a hole and anchored the new ligament. He retired last year after several seasons of pain and inconsistency.
So while Erickson might impress for a month or two, history suggests that the chances of him doing it from start to finish are rather remote.
The article can be found here.
So, again, with history not on our side regarding the 1st full year back from the surgery, counting on a guy who has averaged 13 wins a year for his career and hasn’t pitched in 18 months simply isn’t the wise thing to do.
Regards,
Jason
By Brad
July 31, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
After this weekend it would be pretty easy to say they have no real shot, but part of me still thinks they do, does anyone else think so? Their schedule is August looks pretty favorable if they start playing better at home. 2 Series with Pittsburgh, Washington, Florida, and then series with teams ahead of them in the Wild Card…if the starting pitching improves they could make up some ground and possibly get right back in it. Hopefully this week was just a bad week and not an indication of how good the team is. The other teams are so average that a good rub on this road trip would have them right back in it, I hope.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
Let me clarify that. If your number five starter has 13 wins, your numbers 1-3 will probaly have 15-18. Your bullpen will make up the slack (unless Reitsma and Remlinger are on the staff.)
By journalist jimmy smith
July 31, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this
in related sports news, president bush has signed a six year deal with the saints. gotta have work when he leaves the white house. the move to new orleans will confuse cindy sheehan. gwb will play corner - right side.
now, hampton was one of the very best pitchers at the beginning of the year before his injury. let’s hope he can come back strong. lew is right - he is a gamer. not like thomson - who appears tough but asks to come out of games.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this
You hit on a couple of points about the surgery. First, everyone tries to come back after a year. Hampton will have gone 1 1/2 years after the surgery. Second, any manager who has a post surgical pitcher throwing 200 innings is a flipping sadist! BC won’t do that. I look for Hampton to be #3 or#4 starter-less innings. Third, Hampton is not a power pitcher, so less strain on the arm. He is also already throwing and no problems have arisen. Look at it like this-if he only wins 10 games-how many tengame winners wil we have this year?
By flbravesgirl
July 31, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this
journalist jimmy, I was at the “fire game”. We sat in the parking lot for hours listening to the radio, trying to figure out if they were actually going to play. One enterprising gentleman wheeled around a cooler of sodas for sale. Finally a few thousand of us watched one of the more exciting games I’ve attended. It was very strange looking across and seeing a blackened “hole” in the stadium. Fred must have wondered what kind of crazy place he had been traded to!
Grinch, try this:
http://www.designtoscano.com
By krath
July 31, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this
I’ve been huge supporter of Betemit and have been very vocal about it. I read an blurp on SI that may have made me feel a little better. John Heyman of SI wrote:
“Many people loved the Braves’ acquisition of Willy Aybar along with Danys Baez for Betemit. One GM said, “Aybar is as good as Betemit, and he’s younger and has a higher ceiling.”
Hope he’s right on this.
Heyman also said that the Braves were in the running for Greg Maddux although it was more questionable now considering the teams performance the last week.
I would say that’s an understatement.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
Lew,
I agree, but we are counting on Hampton to be at least our number 3 if not number 2 with Hudson’s struggles. The 1st year back simply has proven to be one that bares fruit. But, I am not arguing with you fellow fans…I am more than happy to be wrong in my opinion on this one! I agree that he is a gamer and can pitch through a little more pain than say Burnett.
Regards,
Jason
By KC
July 31, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine:
You are correct 16 avg. wins, not 17. I meant to correct that before hitting the “post” button, but didn’t. Sorry.
But come on man, you really think we shouldn’t dismiss his two years in Colorado???!!! There are many pitchers who have pitched well both before and after Colorado.
Again, Daryl kile is a perfect case in point. 19-7 with a 2.57 ERA in 1997 before signing with Colorado. 1998 and 99 in Colorado he posted ERA’s of 5.20 & 6.61. After leaving Denver, he was 41-24 with a 3.54 ERA for St. Louis before his passing.
Contact pitchers, especially sinkerballers and those who rely heavily on the movement of their pitches… almost never fare well in Colorado. I don’t know if you remember this, but when Hampton signed with the Rockies, everyone in baseball was shaking their head and wondering why in the world the Rockies (or Hampton) would have him pegged as the type of pitcher who could prosper there.
Come on dude, seriously. If you’re going to hold that against him… there’s not much more I can say.
You want to throw the numbers out… fine. I don’t know if you were watching the same games I was the past couple of years, but Hampton looked pretty damn good to me.
By Head Coach
July 31, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
Geesh guys . write a blog , not a book. 2007 looks good as far as pitching goes. Smoltz , Hampton , Hudson , Ramirez , Davies and James. Three left handers and three right handers. Baez , Ray , McBride , Paronto , Boyer , Foster , Stockman , Yates , Barry , Devine , Villareal and if they can resign Wickman all the pitching is set for next season. About all that needs sorting out is the offense. 2007 is already looking much better than this season will ever look.
By Don
July 31, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
Statistics for Horacio Ramirez this season:
65.2 innings pitched .452 ERA 79 hits allowed .306 opponents batting average 30 strikeouts, 25 walks
30 years ago with a stat line like that you’d already be in the minors. In today’s baseball, those are the statistics of a #5 starter, not one of the best pitchers in the National League.
How does one keep throwing around a 1.5 ERA for a guy with those numbers, as if he’s a dominant pitcher who occasionally has a bad outing?
By dylan
July 31, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this
Dave its obvious our starting pitching problems arent going to get fixed this season and I know you have discussed how getting rid of Hudson is going to be impossible what do we do in the offseason to fix the starting rotation? The youth (James,Davies) is questionable on this team as to when they will fully blossom into the pitchers they are capable of being. Horacio’s inconsistency in years past still leaves a question as to whether he can be a number 1 starter. The biggest problem I see is the veterans, big contracts that we cant get rid of and arent pitching effective enough to warrant being paid so much. Will the braves be contenders in the Zito race in the offseason (I hope not he will be overpayed by someone and I hope it isnt the braves)What other free agent pitchers might we look at to fill our need for a true number 1 starter?
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
Lew, you missed my point. Certainly Andruw can negotiate with Braves after he becomes a 10/5 player. Once he becomes a 10/5 and can veto any trade the bargaining becomes harder for the Braves all the while his price tag is going up via Boras that’s all.
The Braves may have to accept that and do what they can. My main point is that it will be a lot easier to restructure a deal now as opposed to the future. And if a solid trade comes up now prior to 4:00 why not do it when he can’t veto it. Right???
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
Lew,
Also, good point regarding Hampton taking the extra time to recover and Bobby not over using him. But, my opinions were made with recent comments from bloggers and JS himself that Hampton is expected to come back next year and team with Smoltz and Hudson to form a powerful top of the rotation. I am simply pointing out that next year may be too soon for those expectations.
Regards,
Jason
By KC
July 31, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine:
You’re point is well taken. There is no guarantee that Hampton will return at 100% of what he was. However, his recovery has already going quite well from all reports. And name two players in the past few years to have TJ surgery and not return (after 18 months) with the same “stuff” they had before the surgery. Including the two guys on our team: Smoltz and Villareal.
As far as you’re point about players struggling in their first year back… Again, the 18 month thing is pretty key here. Most pitchers do return after only 12 months. When you come back only 2/3 into your recovery period, that’s significantly different from some one who’s had the full 18 months. That’s a fact. None of the “first year back” stats you’re throwing out there can be applied to Hampton for that very reason.
Believe me, if he were coming back after only 12 months, I’d be right there with you (Hopeful, but not confident).
And man, talk about making statistics say what you want them to… “averaged 13 wins in his career”.
Again, Hampton turned a corner in 1999, and there’s no way you can reasonably count anything that happened in Denver if you’re trying to ascertain what kind of pitcher he is today.
If Hampton is able to make a full recovery, you and I both know that he is a far better pitcher than you’re trying to make him sound with that “13 win average” you’re throwing out there.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this
I still think that unless Hudson turns it around, he is gone in the offseason for prospects and salary dumping. Like i”ve said before, with Hudson and Giles traded, Thomson, Reitsma, Sosa (now gone) and Jordan gone, we will have $20 million to resign both Baez and Wickman, and be active for a top line free agent pitcher. Do the math. Just by moving Hudson and Giles and getting nothing but minor leaguers for them, look at the strength of this team next year. We could probably pick up a Conine type player for the bench, too.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
KC,
No, throw out his years in Colorado. That’s cool. I agree with you that when Hampton went to Colorado, Coors Field was still a death trap for pitchers. But, even excluding thos years and counting the rest of the years that he has started at leat 25 games, he has averaged 13 wins. But, let’s not beat a dead horse. I am just a little more cautiously optimistic in regards to his first year back from surgery is all. I agree with others that if we can get him back and get 10-13 wins, cool. But, I do not agree with comments made by the GM that the Braves have a “big three” of Smoltz, Hudson, and Hampton that should be relied on next year.
Regards,
Jason
By robdawg06
July 31, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this
Dave, am I the blogger you were glad to get rid of ? We speak the truth but since its against your views we are labeled “trouble makers” ? Wow ! Very bad trade with Betemit. He will hit .300 30 100 starting 160 games. Baez will be gone after this year and as the other “nasty blogger” as you call him said, Aybar is just trying to become as good as Betemit (which is sad). I’ll wager that Sosa will hook on with a good team and pitch well. Remember Jason Marquis and Jason Schmidt that the Braves never liked ? Well, Schmidt was the best pitcher in MLB for a 3 year run in early 200o’s and Marquis (traded for 1 year and gone for the $$$ J.D. Drew) leads MLB in victories this year. Real brilliant trades JS. Please post your comments on these trades DOB and stay off the personal attacks. I’m not attacking you just posting facts.
By robdawg06
July 31, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this
Baez is making $2 million and Betemit was making about $500 thousand and could have played 2B for the next 10 years for the Braves. Stupid trade.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
KC,
How’s this…you and I both agree that Hampton has the chance to have a very positive impact on the rotation next year. I just think the odds are a little slimmer is all. But, again, I promise to admit my mistake next year at this time if he is pitching like we both know he CAN! Any rumblings out there of any potential Braves’ moves—big or small?
Regards,
Jason
By robdawg06
July 31, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
Speaking of Maddux, why do we need him ? Remember Maddux accepting arbitration on the Braves AFTER the Braves acquired Paul Byrd and that forced the trade of Kevin Millwood ? And Millwood is yet another very good pitcher the Braves gave away. If you look at it now, the Braves basically traded Millwood for Villareal & L.Cormier. Ouch !
By KC
July 31, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this
Don
I’m not saying that Horacio’s season-to-date stats are good. Go with me here for a minute… hear what I am saying.
I am not saying that HoRam has established himself as one of the best in the game. I wouldn’t begin to say that because it’s obviously not true.
What I was saying before his last outing (not that I’ve completely change my mind about him) was that I felt he was becoming one of the best lefties in the game. Not that he was that, but that he was becoming that.
The fact remains that in 8 of his last 11 starts, he looked like a CY Young caliber pitcher. But obviously, if you shut the other team down in 3 out of every 4 starts, and then give up 7 earned over 2 innings in the 4th start… you’re not going to be considered one of the best anything in baseball. Still though, a guy who will shut down the other team 8 out of 11 times is valuable over 162 games. But he’s got to figure out how to overcome the adrenaline, settle down and not overthrow the ball in a big game like that one Friday against the Muts.
Horacio has shown me something since May. He’s got to find a way to avoid these periodic nightmare outings if he’s going to take it to the next level. But I think he will. He’s not there yet, but if you’re selling HoRam stock, let me know ‘cause’ I’m buying.
By Don
July 31, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this
Lew, if Hudson keeps pitching like he has been (no pun intended), who is going to take the remaining 3 years and $33 million on his contract (including a $1 million buyout after 3 years)? If he doesn’t improve the Braves will likely have to pick up part of his contract to move him, just as Colorado did with Hampton and tried to do with Neagle. Our best chance to dump him is by 4 PM today when teams are desperate for starting pitching, but the Yankees have picked up Lidle and Hudson’s recent performance probably scares the hell out of every other potential buyer.
Second, why is everybody assuming that Baez, a failed closer for the Dodgers, is somehow a guy we will pick up on option on at $5 million or so for next year? If you look at Baez’s numbers year by year they’ve steadily declined; ERA up, strikeouts per 9 innings down significantly. His ERA since the beginning of June is over 6. The Dodgers had to pick up a chunk of his salary to get the Braves to take him for 60 days. His June-July numbers look like Jorge Sosa. JS passed on him last offseason and he’s had his worst season this year. So why is JS going to pay a price this offseason for Baez that he wouldn’t pay last offseason?
By Lew
July 31, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
RobDawg-Basically Dude, so what? The deal has been made even if you don’t agree. Live with it. Personally I think Betemit s##ked at second. After all these years of observation in the Braves’ system, he never got a starting job and wasn’t going to. Then he was traded. Do you really think that they did this just to p##s you off? Maybe there is something about Betemit as a player that you don’t know about. Do you think the Braves’ honchos are such flipping idiots that they can’t see what you do? The Braves are notoriously close mouthed about laundry issues in the organization. If the Braves thought he had no future there-he didn’t. If there was no future for him, why keep him. I guarantee you don’t know all the story, nor do any of us. Time to get over it and move on. If you are this upset about it, there are 29 more teams to cheer for.
By KC
July 31, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine:
Yeah, it’s obviously all speculation at this point about Hampton, but I’m looking forward to his return.
In other starter news:
ESPN.com is reporting that the Mets are trying to swing a deal for Jason Schmidt…
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE CANNOT LET SCHMIDT GO TO THE METS UNDER ANY CURCUMSTANCES!!!!!!!!!
If he’s availabe, we need to do whatever it takes to get him in Atlanta. Both to ensure that a dominant starting rotation next year, and to keep the Mets from getting him.
We could deal Hudson and Giles this winter to clear payroll room to re-sign him. If it’s true… if Schmidt is available, Atlanta HAS to get him!
By Patrick
July 31, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this
DOB, any chance we land Schmidt today?
By KC
July 31, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this
Personally, I don’t think the Giants are going to trade Schmidt, but if they are… well, I think I’ve already expressed my views on that.
One way or the other (unless Hudson turns things around quickly and convincingly) we need to deal Hudson and Giles this winter, clear some payroll space, and make a run at Schmidt or Zito (preferably Schmidt).
By robdawg06
July 31, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this
The Braves starting pitching is now as bad as the relief pitching. Speaking of Hampton the 3 year DL man, will he ever pitch again ? Talking about getting paid for doing nothing… Hurt players for that long are generally released or retire. I’ll call Hampton Paul Byrd Jr.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this
Man I agree about dumping Hudson by 4:00, but I think the Braves are already out of it for this year. Others feel differently. This just on the wire-Sean Casey to the Tigers for a minor league pitcher.
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this
KC, Lew, Head Coach, a few others: I agree with you all about next year’s pitching and particularly about Hampton. Frankly, I’m pleasantly surprise at how savvy you guys are regarding the recovery period from Tommy John surgery and also, especially, how one of you pointed out that Hampton pitched with a really screwed up knee and still pitched very well for the second half of one season and first half of next (was Braves’ best pitcher in that span).
Anyway, just wanted to let you know, scouts I talk to and a few other front-office guys on other teams that I’ve seen in recent trips all agree that while the Braves are down this year, their young personnel is the envy of most teams for next year. And no one, NO ONE, would trade Smoltz if they had the face of the franchise (or one of them, at least) back at $8 mill next season in a market that pays pitchers of his pedigree about twice that.
Most interesting (or head-shaking, would be more appropriate) about JasonInMaine’s remarkably off-based ramblings for the past few hours (Jason, I really thought more of your posts before today) was a line in his original post about doing something with Hampton this offseason, as though there were several options worth exploring.
That right there sent the red flag up that you were totally out of touch with the real-world scenario in this one. Because you wrote it as though you thought Braves should trade him or something. Because other than keep him and pencil him in the rotation, what other options are there, Jason? Come on, man. You’ve been here long enough to know better than than, haven’t you. The man is owed $14.5 mill in 2007 and $15 mill in 2008. Jason, he’s not GOING ANYWHERE.
That said, I agree with all of those who are pointing out the flaws in your argument. The vast majority of pitchers recover from T.J. surgery just fine these days, and he’s getting an extra 6 months (probably for insurance purposes, though also because Braves wanted him to have time to have his knee surgery and recover from everything and be close to 100 percent for final two years).
If you don’t think Mike Hampton was an elite pitcher before his rash of injuries, then it tells me you must be too young to remember and are just reading his stats without recollecting what he did from actually seeing him and appreciating it. He was a bulldog, to use an overused cliche. It fit perfectly with him, and still does, when healthy.
While the Rockies vastly overpaid for him, there was a reason the Rockies, Braves and many other teams made a run at him that year when he was a free agent. Because he was an elite pitcher.
Whether or not you want to count on him or dismiss his accomplishments or whatever, fact of the matter is, he’s in the rotation next year because he’s under contract (a HUGE contract) and he’s not tradeable. And he’s working his a*% off every day in rehab, coming to the ballpark every day the team is home, dressing and working out before games just like he’s active. Unlike a lot of other people in similar situations who do their rehab elsewhere or before the team gets to the park, etc.
By robdawg06
July 31, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this
Hey Lew, (DOB Jr.) stick to your view and not to telling me I’m right or wrong in my views. Your response should have been you thought Betemit wasn’t that good and not a personal attack on me (“there are 29 other teams to root for”). My comments stick to the Braves. Yours and Dave’s get personal on the bloggers.
By KC
July 31, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Don
It’s still one lousy 1/2 season or so VS. 7 years of excellence. With all the teams out there looking for pitching… some one will take a chance on Hudson. A full winter to clear his head and a change of scenery might be just what the doctor ordered for Huddy.
We might have to pick up a few million of his 2008, 2009 salary if we want to get anything of value in return, but that wouldn’t be the end of the world.
The Yankees, Orioles, Dodgers, Red Sox, even the Mets are all potential suitors for Huddy this winter if we decide to move him (and if he doesn’t turn it around… we should).
By robdawg06
July 31, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this
Tell you what Lew, lets revisit this topic (Betemit-Baez trade) next year or 3 years down the road and see who made the better trade ? Ok ? You want to label Betemit as a career backup and its obvious that if he played every day that he can put up great numbers. At least the Dodgers and Padres saw it.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this
No RobDawg-What I meant was that for the past three days all we’ve heard (and your prsence has not been noticed until this morning) is how terrible this trade was. My point is that it’s like that inane song they play on TBS after Hr’s. Like a soldier in the Civil War Bang Bang- It ain’t never coming back. Whatever you think about his trade is irrelevant-He’s gone. Now , dude you have to admit you are one of the more belligerent bloggers on this site. I’m not a DOB clone. I disagree with him all the time. I never said your views were wrong, just that there might be another side that you, in your sarcastic widom might not know about. My opinion is that Betemit was a talented and helpful sub. But my opinion, like yours, don’t mean s##t to a tree in tjis case. Get a grip man. If you don’t like us, oh well.
By robdawg06
July 31, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
Hey Lew, I guess the Braves can’t see a .300 hitter that can play all infield positions better than average. While watching ESPN’s coverage of the Braves-Cardinals game I saw Betemit bare-hand a play at 3B that most no 3B’s would make. A future star traded for a washed up reliever. Amazing.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
DOB-I don’t know if you caught my early morning blog-you had jsut signed off. I picked up the new Wishbone Ash cd this weekend. Go buy it, you should love it. Very eclectic influences from Crazy Horse to country to Jan and Dean. Great guitar work. If you don’t like it, I’ll buy it from you and never comment on music again. It’s called Clan Destiny.
By Del
July 31, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB,you are letting your personal dislike of Betemit and Sosa cloud your professional judgement.You like LaRoche and hate the other two, we all get it.
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this
KRATH, you better watch out quoting that GM from the SI.com article, the GM who said Aybar has a higher ceiling that Betemit. Because Don (the knows-everything, Betemit-is-king Don, not Other Don, the reasonable one) will soon weigh in accusing you of being a fool, of following the company line, or maybe even making up that supposed GM, because Don doesn’t believe it and has dubbed Aybar “Upside Aybar” as a sarcastic reference to something I said (which was basically the same thing the rival GM told SI.com about Aybar, and the same things Braves scouts told Schuerholz when they said they should make the trade).
But Don will cut-and-paste the LA Times article that backs his point, the one about how they were going to send Aybar to the outfield because he struggled so in the infield (I might point out that they were also talking of sending Furcal to the outfield, so I guess he stinks in the infield, too, or at least isn’t as good as Betemit)….
RobDawg, please try to base your posts at least in part on facts, rather than just slinging opinions or how you think things should be.
You had 50 people discussing Hampton in this blog in the past few hours, giving you all the pertinent stats, his recovery from surgery, etc, and you weigh in with:
“Speaking of Hampton the 3 year DL man, will he ever pitch again ? Talking about getting paid for doing nothing… Hurt players for that long are generally released or retire. I’ll call Hampton Paul Byrd Jr.”
RD, just curious, in what league would they released or retire when they are owed $43 million for this season and next two? Oh, that’s right, the NFL, where contracts aren’t guaranteed.
In the league we discuss here on this blog, contracts are guaranteed, RD. So unless you propose that the Braves simply swallow the $43 mill that Hampton is getting paid (half of it by insurance this season), or that Hampton walk away and leave the money on the table out of generosity, then your post amounts to fantasy-world stuff.
Let’s stick with reality.
Couple of guys asked about Wickman and Baez. Wickman has talked of retiring each of past two seasons, and I think he’s really leaning in that direction this year. Wouldn’t count on him being back.
Baez is making $4 mill this year in option year of the contract he signed with Tampa Bay. But when the contract’s up, he’s still not a free agent. it’s like when Beckett’s original four-year contract he signed with the Marlins ran out, he wasn’t a free agent, just arbitration-eligible.
Baez would likely make at least $5-6 mill through arbitration, even though he’s had a pretty bad year so far (that’s just way arbitration works). Of course, if his experience here is good and the Braves like what they see, they could work out a 2-3 year deal with him that is doable for both sides, but I wouldn’t count on that, either.
You know how the Brave are about paying bullpen guys. So unless they saw him as their closer for a few years, and a good one at that, they wouldn’t give him $5 mill a year, I’m thinking. But we’ll see.
That was a primary reason I liked Linebrink, because he was under contract for $1.75 next year on an option year of his contract. But hey, if Padres would’ve taken Betemit, Braves still wouldn’t have had a utility guy to replace Betemit, like they do with Aybar.
By ncscoots
July 31, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
As I flew out of Atlanta last night, I expected to see that scene from Gone With The Wind, you know the one where the camera pans back and you see all the wounded and desolation? Yeah, that one. And it occurred to me that a truly amazing thing had happened…the Atlanta Braves have become the Texas Rangers: good offense, good defense, and an absolute lack of playoff-caliber pitching. In what should have felt like a big-game, playoff-type series, Braves’ starters folded like origami. Sad…oh, they might still win the wild-card, since all the other teams in that chase are also seriously flawed, but I’m now looking forward to an eventful winter…nothing more.
By Ron Roberts
July 31, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
2007 Braves’ pitching rotation will have us (again) with a surplus of arms, but the difference from this season will be the quality of arms we have to choose from.
Here’s how I break it down…
John Smoltz… face of the franchise, inexpensive ($8 million for a number 1?) and proven to be durable. One of the smartest heat-throwers in the game, save for Roger Clemons, in my mind; negatives are that he’s aging and may wear down when we need a *vintage” Smoltz performance down the stretch.
Horacio Ramirez…. yes, I see him as a quality #2 guy. Since returning from his injuries, this guy’s been our 2nd-most dependable starter, folks. Only got roughed up once, far as I’m concerned, and the other time he got beaned in Houston when nothing was going right for the Braves that day. He has speed in his fastball, and a wicked changeup. This kid looks locked in, now.
Tim freaking Hudson. I’m half-tempted to wanna shut this guy down for the season and send him to the doctor for a full-body scan, from the neck up and down, to find out what’s wrong with this guy. When he’s on, he’s unhittable (think May in New York). When he sucks… well, we all know when that is.
(I’m) Chuck James (b!tch)… Sunday’s start notwithstanding, he’s looked like Horacio II, and I think anybody who can look that good in his first year will only get better. Young Tom Glavine-like guy. Most teams would love to have a fourth starter this good and young, and we got ‘em.
Mike Hampton…the great $15 million intangible. I think he’s gonna come back and be damn good, myself, but this long layoff worries me, just a little. Sure would be nice if there were a World Baseball Classic for him to pitch in before spring training. That being said, I look for him to probably have a shaky spring, maybe a month at AA or AAA getting his mechanics down before re-appearing. You just don’t hop back on the mound and have everything in sync after such a long layoff. But I do think he’ll be damned good once he’s back with us.
That leaves us with Kyle Davies and/or any free agents arms we pick up in the offseason. Kyle’s the insurance policy (again) in my mind, and that’s not bad to have.
Or is he trade bait for a veteran arm that’s more of a name (and ticket-seller)?
By Voice Of Reason
July 31, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this
People keep saying, “It’s time to rebuild,” or “It’s time to blow it up.” The fact is, the Braves have been rebuilding since last year. The difference is that the influx of young, homegrown players were effective in their call-up year, and the beat went on. You don’t blow up a team to rebuild if you have a well run minor league system, you simply draw from within and tweak from the outside. We’ve seen it here for the last 15 years. I, for one, find it amazing that this is the first time in that 15 year span that there has been any significant dropoff. And quite honestly, if you got any resemblance of the real Tim Hudson, and just half of Smoltz’s blown leads back, the dropoff would be minimal. IMO - The Braves most certainly will be back next year, and for years to come. Is it just me, or has Franc been maturing and showing more consistency? Has LaRoche actually become productive against both RHP’s & LHP’s? Maybe Wickman is a 1/2 year rental, but Baez is not, and most of us were begging for him earlier this season. And hasn’t the acquisition of Aybar (…thanks for the Aybar/Betemit comparison, DOB. That was very interesting…) garnered the proverbial leadoff type hitter everyone seemed to desire? I see positive trends and useable/tradeable assets both on the major as well as minor league rosters. I think I’ll cut this organization some slack once in 16 years…
By Lew
July 31, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this
RobDawg-One last time here. It really doesn’t matter what either on of us think about this trade. It is a done deal. Betenit did a superlative job as a substitute player in his time in Hotlanta. No doubt. You are absolutely correct. He did everything asked of him while here and did it well (except to play second base, where he was clearly out of place. He tripped over his feet on at least three pop ups). It is my feeling that Giles will be traded and Wilson was not an option (at least perceived by Braves honchos) for the second base position. Whether or not this is correct is a moot point. The BRAVES HONCHOS thought this and he is gone. As you pointed out and I throw back in your direction-let’s wait and see. Maybe you are right and they are wrong, BUT IT DOESN”T MATTER! He’s gone.Bang Bang
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Hey, each to his own. But, can you please tell me where I mentioned trading Hampton? Of course he can’t be traded…never suggested anything to the contrary. Too young to remember? I wish (: I have probably been watching the Braves for a lot longer than you my friend.
Out of curiosity, why would you want to ignore the facts regarding a player’s first year back from TJ surgery? I like that thinking. Hell, the next time I make a stock purchase, I will ignore the historical statistical data and assume that all will be well. Yes, I understand that you guys are saying that every single pitcher referenced in the USA Today article came back within 12 months (which is not true) and that Hampton has taken the extra 6 months. I hear your argument gents. The dude still hasn’t faced live batters in 18 MONTHS.
I agree with you that Hampton is a bulldog, can pitch through pain, and is a gamer. He is a different type of cat than Burnett and cares more about the team. I am rooting for him. I never said anything bad about his character or his toughness or his work ethic. I hope he wins 20.
Regards,
Jason
By ColumbusBuckeye
July 31, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
I’m in the belief that Hampton will probably shave 2-3 years of fatigue off of his body by sitting out this season. The guy loves to compete, and every game that he sits through will only make him more hungry. Plus, he’s out to quiet the skeptics….. The key to him is that he is the kind of guy you want on the hill in a 5 game series….or deep in the season in a pennant race. When healthy, I still think he can really bring it.
Some imply that we should trade him…..that’s pretty much a joke. I hear others talking about trading Hudson. I don’t think that his trade value could be any lower at the moment. If they were thinking of trading him, why not wait out the season and see if he can turn it around? If so, you can move him in the off season and actually get something in return.
I know were all fans here, but you have to be rational when you discuss trades. The economics of trading Hudson right now just don’t make any sense, because we won’t get much out of him.
On a side note, do you think that Hudson is affected by humidity? It seems like when it heats up……his pitches hang over the plate.
I’d be curious to see his stats in comparison to the heat/ humidity on the day that he was pitching. Maybe I’m just crazy….or maybe there is something to the argument. I tend to think that maybe the truth lies in the middle of that statement :)
By Voice Of Reason
July 31, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this
I wish WillyB all the luck in the world, but I believe his value was at its absolute peak. This is the same gnashing of teeth that occured when Charles Thomas was traded. Maybe WB will be a star, but my opinion is that he is enjoying his finest right now. As you have said, though, only time will tell…
By Lew
July 31, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this
The main thing about Hampton’s return-The guy knows how to pitch. This is something Beckett is still learning. Tommy John knew how to pitch also. I think the surgery may have been perfected somewhat since John was playing, also. As RobDAwg mentioned on a different subject, time will tell. I still feel good. And it’s been even longer since he pitched because he wasshut down for most of last season. He should be well rested. It’s all in the emphasis.
By Longwood's Finest
July 31, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
Columbus:
Stats on Huddy this year: Home 2-5, Away 6-4…I live in VA and know about GA weather, but don’t know much about it on the West Coast, so you might have a point
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
RobDawg, amazing. I posted that last one even before I saw you fire off more of your rambling missives. Honestly, hadn’t seen your stuff on Betemit deal when I sent my last one, or I would have added that as another example of your simply firing from the hip, not basing anything on reality.
See, they didn’t trade a “future star” for a washed-up reliever.
Here’s what they did, and I’ll try to keep it simple (let me know which part of this you dispute, as I’m sure you will): They traded a 26-year-old infielder (Betemit) who hasn’t had a chance to play every day yet but could end up being a very good player, for a 23-year-old infielder who hasn’t played every day yet but could end up being a very good player, and a 28-year-old reliever (or, washed up, as you put it) who converted 71-of-82 saves with a 3.74 ERA in the American League over last two seasons before having a bad first half (actually, a bad two months) this season in his first year in the NL.
What am I missing there? Seriously. Does Baez’s two bad months signal he’s washed up, means the 41 saves last year and 3.74 ERA for Tampa Bay was a lifetime ago?
And what about Aybar’s minor league numbers and his first year with Dodgers last year tells you he stinks? I’m just asking, man. Because you see something there and I just want to know what it is.
How is Baez washed up? Did you watch the game yesterday? He gave up two hits, but did you notice his stuff, or no? You couldn’t see that he’s got a damn good arm? Because if you couldn’t see that, cool, I just want to know.
HEY DEL, let’s get one thing straight: Betemit was absolutely a good guy and I, like everone else in the clubhouse, liked him. Impossible not to like him. He matured so much in two years, worked his butt off, had a pleasant personality, and filled in admirably for Chipper, Giles and last year Furcal. I absolutely liked him and hope he thrives in LA and gets himself a nice contract. He deserves it.
Sosa, I didn’t particularly like, simply because he carried himself like he’d won a Cy Young award or coverted 50 saves, never had a pleasant thing to say to anyone but his small circle of friends, and showed up 20 pounds overweight this season, infuriating team officials who protected him publicly and didn’t throw him under the bus, right up to the end yesterday.
Can I be any clearer about how I felt of the two players?
But here’s the difference. I can separate how I feel personally about Betemit about how I view him as a player or how I view this trade. A lot of fans can’t. Some, as you’ve seen on the blog by those judging the trade on its merits, and on comments from scouts or other team’s GMs or whoever, can judge it like baseball people do. But fans who just see him as our Wilson, judge it strictly on what they know, what they’ve seen, without being open to others opinions or giving the players received a chance to show what they can do.
I really don’t see how anyone can look at where Betemit was at 23 _ struggling in Triple-A _ and where Aybar is at 23 and say it’s clear who’ll be the better player. I know I can’t.
By robdawg06
July 31, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this
DOB, remember the Braves releasing Bruce Sutter with millions owed him ? Sometimes you bite the bullet and release losers. Hampton can pitch well when healthy. I emphasize “When Healthy” which is almost NEVER. I’m sure Gale Sayers would have been great if not injured. The Braves have paid Paul Byrd and Mike Hampton over $50 million dollars with no results for that money. I understand why teams lose money now…
By The GM
July 31, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this
Any chance the Braves could trade for Schmidt? The only way I think it’s possible is if they were to trade Hudson. So I guess I’m leaning towards no.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this
Columbus Buckeye-It doesn’t matter if Hudson isn’t worth much. I’d take two minor eague prospects and the other team taking on his salary. The salary saving combined with trading Giles and his salary and the attrition of such stalwarts as Remlinger, Reitsma, Thomson, Sosa and Jordan will free up so much money we can pay for Wickman and Baez and get another quality starter as a free agent. Trading Hudson makes sense on several levels when you get down to it.
By Ron Roberts
July 31, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this
Voice, I disagree. The Braves have been re-building since they let Gary Sheffield go in 2003, frankly. Maybe even before that, when they watched Glavine and Maddux walk (rightfully so, I think, with the paychecks they wanted vs. the output they’ve shown since they left us).
Either way, they’ve been rebuilding far longer than just the past year. To be honest, I think the Braves’ replacing Sheffield with Drew was an honest attempt to stay competitive, but after that, I don’t believe, at all, they thought last year’s opening day roster was playoff-caliber. Nobody expected A. Jones to have the year he did, and nobody expected the Francoeurs and McCanns of the minor leagues to just step in and produce at the MLB level the way they did.
Last season was a surprise (and yet fans still wanna harp on the playoff loss when the Braves probably didn’t belong in it to begin with). This season is a letdown, thus far. But seriously, as much as we wanted to believe things would work out last March, (as Braves fans we’ve grown accustomed to things just working out for us) did we really think Smoltz/Hudson/Sosa/Thomson/Davies was going to not only serve us well, but avoid the injury bug?
We all sweat it out, grinding our teeth, chewing our nails, etc. in all those 2005 Sosa outings, so we really didn’t know what to expect from him; plus he was awful in the WBC and spring, so the signs were there. Smoltz has been Smoltz, but nobody was dead-set on Hudson being an ace as he’d been anointed pre-season. Thomson was more often injured than not, last year, and Davies was a rookie who looked good at times, and like a rookie on other occasions.
By Don
July 31, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this
Dave, the reason you liked Betemit for Proctor and Betemit for Linebrink and Betemit for Baez and Aybar is simple. John Schuerholz told you you should like it.
Why don’t you go to the AJC and see if they can block all of us who disagree with you on anything from posting?
By robdawg06
July 31, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
DOB, why would the Dodgers who are in the hunt for the wild card or division trade a pitcher if he were worth his salt ? If your reply is they need Betemit at 3b then why not play Aybar whom you say is “AS GOOD” ? You can’t rely on what Baez did last year. Remember what Sosa did last year ? You back up my argument about Baez with you Sosa posts. I’m not angry at any of you and I shouldn’t be. I’m angry at the way the Braves a ran.
By Miles
July 31, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this
Ron,
I pray to god that Ramirez IS NOT our number 2 starter next season otherwise we’re looking for a repeat of 2006. His WHIP is through the roof and his K/BB ratio is terrible. Ramirez is what he is, a number 4 or 5 starter that eats up innings.
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
Voice of reason: Good point on the teeth-gnashing that went on when Chuck Thomas was traded to Oakland. But I’m sure some of the same people who complained about that trade and are complaining about Betemit now will try to point out how vastly different they are. They’re not, other than Betemit has a year-and-half in the majors instead of Thomas’ less than one at the time.
Hopefully you’re not right about Betemit never having more valule than now, but I can tell you, that’s a big reason he was traded, because Braves believe or lean toward that opinion. Look what happened when they held on to Sosa after his stunning breakout season in 2005, rather than trade him last winter (though I must say, they had very little in the way of offers for Sosa; other teams knew it was probably a fluke, or at least had enough concerns to take a wait-and-see approach. And we’ve seen what happened this year.
By robdawg06
July 31, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this
Typo city man. I gotta return to work now. DOB, please try to look at things from all sides not just in support of the Braves mgmt. You take Betemit who hits .300 at 3b,2b,and SS. He played awesome at 3B & SS and ok at 2B. He’s still relatively young at 26 (should hit well until about 35). He’s cheap too. I hope I’m wrong about Baez more than you know !
By Lew
July 31, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this
Uh Dude-Gayle Sayers WAS great. Releasing a player when they are owed that much money is insanity. I’m not sure what the Diamonbacks were thinking about Ortiz. It will be years before they absorb that loss. Plus, insurance picked up a good portion of Hampton’s salary this year. My only question about Hampton is why didn’t they shut him down sooner and do the surgery during last season. I think if Hudson is not hurt, maybe a few sessions with that sports psychologist might help. As far as it being too hot. Hudson is from Alabama and went to Auburn. Far as I know, Bama is hot as hell and humid, too.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
Well, I do have to chime in with my opinion on the Betemit trade. He wasn’t going to play every day with the Braves…period. It wasn’t going to happen. Not a SS, not at 3rd, and certainly not at 2nd. I remember when the Braves were trying to use him as the “1st tier prospect” in many trade attempts when he was 23 and teams scoffed at JS. I have to agree with others that his trade value is as high as it has ever been. The Braves got a replacement for him as well as a solid 8th inning arm to address the team’s most glaring weakness so far this year.
Lew, I agree with you on Hudson, which is the pitcher that I advocated the Braves should trade. I posted his stats in comparison to Buerhle’s who the Sox offered Crisp for. Now, since then, someone pointed out that Buerhle is in the last year of his contract. But, Hudson is reasonably priced next year and a team may be willing to take a chance at getting him straigtened out (remember Peterson’s remark that he could straighten out Victor Zambrano in 20 minutes). The salary alone would be worth it.
Regards,
Jason
By 22oz
July 31, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this
Nothing to do with any of this discussion, but i was just wondering who’s number will be retired from the era of division championships that is most likely at an end? I notice that every time somebody new comes in, they are never given 31 or 47. I know Chipper and Smoltz are a lock, but who else?
By Longwood's Finest
July 31, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
DOB, what was the additude of the clubhouse after Sunday? I know probably not good, but do you think they can still look at the rest of the season positively? Tell the guys they still have fans pulling for them, and has anyone ever told you that you have one of the best damn jobs in the world?
By T-Bone
July 31, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
I’ll ask a looking-forward question because I’m tired of reading so many anti-JS, anti-DOB, anti-Baez, anti-Aybar posts … Sheesh folks, Betemit is not even the second coming of Terry Pendleton, Aybar could potentially be a good player and Baez had those 70-plus saves in the AL East. The Braves got pretty dang good value for Betemit.
Is anything going on regarding trades today for the Braves? I’m guessing there won’t be any, but I was wondering if anything might be percolating, other than a potential Jorge Sosa trade.
Thanks in advance!
By Don
July 31, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
Dave, you’ve really got a lot of nerve smirking about me linking something from the L.A. Times about Aybar. You’re supposed to be a reporter, not a mouthpiece for John Schuerholz. Maybe JS is right about this trade, but everybody spins their trades and reporting only the spin is not doing your job, it’s a PR function.
Let’s recall that before the trade you said Betemit could never play good enough second base for the Braves, who value up the middle defense. He certainly looked clumsy at second but hadn’t played it much. But let me concede that, let’s say he could never play second base and wouldn’t be a solution post-Giles.
But after talking about how the Braves value defense at second base, you report with a straight face the Schuerholz spin that Aybar might be a good candidate for the second base job next year. If you had done a little bit or reporting, you might have found some issues with that. The Dodgers had Aybar in their farm system for years. They had an opening at second base this year because Jeff Kent was hurt. They had an opening at third base because Bill Mueller was hurt. And they sent Aybar to their AAA team in Las Vegas, according to the LA Times to learn how to play left field.
So the Dodgers apparently had serious reservations about Aybar’s ability to ever be an everyday big league infielder. And Aybar doesn’t even claim to be a second baseman, according to the LA Times he says third base is his best position.
But you report that Aybar might be the second baseman for the Braves next year, a team you tell us are very serious about defense up the middle.
I don’t care what side of this trade anybody is on as much as I care that the two sides to it are reported. Do your friggin’ job instead of ripping me for doing it for you.
By justin
July 31, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
i just seen a rumor that andrew jones was going to be traded to the redsox i dont know who the braves will get back though.
By Phillip
July 31, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
Big rumor going around about Andruw going to Boston for Crisp & Lester.
By daria
July 31, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What is up with these Andruw to Boston trade rumors? Something about JS countering the Sox request for Druw, asking for Crisp, Hansen and Lester. Tell me this will NOT happen. I’m having a nervous breakdown. Did we go from buyers to sellers that quick? Because what this trade would do to the clubhouse would be devastating. Thanks.
By daria
July 31, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What is up with these Andruw to Boston trade rumors? Something about JS countering the Sox request for Druw, asking for Crisp, Hansen and Lester. Tell me this will NOT happen. I’m having a nervous breakdown. Did we go from buyers to sellers that quick? Because what this trade would do to the clubhouse would be devastating. Thanks.
By Ron Roberts
July 31, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Miles,
Ramirez is 5-4 with a 4.02 ERA since coming back from his injury-riddled start of the season. That’s about as good as anybody else we currently send out every fifth day, except for Smoltzie. Sorry, but he’s our 2nd best starter. Before his bad outing Friday, he was actually 5-3 with a 3.85 ERA. Not bad. I like his stuff.
And all this reminiscing of our Charles Thomas teeth-gnashing… is he still playing AAA ball at Sacramento in the A’s organization? That’s the last place I saw him penciled in.
By Mike Lum
July 31, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
DOB, where does Kelly Johnson fit in next year? Will his arm allow him to play in the outfield, or would he have a shot at 2B? Cox seems pretty high on him.
By TommyB
July 31, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
Dumb Question
Reading an earlier post made me realize something. If the insurance policy is covering half of Hampton’s salary owed (meaning this year), doesn’t that give us a lot of more $$ to spend this year?
By Brad
July 31, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
Where have you read the Andruw rumors at? I really hope they wouldn’t trade him
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
ROBDAWG, stop it already. Every time you post, you’re reinforcing my statement that you are simply firing off opinions like you’re sitting at a bar with your buds. Dude, google something, find some facts before you just fire off posts.
YOU WROTE THIS: DOB, remember the Braves releasing Bruce Sutter with millions owed him ? (ROB, THEY OWE HAMPTON $29.5 MILLION IN 2007-08; That’s more than SUTTER MADE IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER. PROBABLY TWICE AS MUCH).
AND THIS: Sometimes you bite the bullet and release losers. (So Hampton’s a “loser”? Of all the things I’ve heard him called, that’s a new one. Good. Thanks for that).
AND THIS: Hampton can pitch well when healthy. I emphasize “When Healthy” which is almost NEVER. I’m sure Gale Sayers would have been great if not injured.
UH, ROB, Gale Sayers is in the NFL Hall of Fame and widely regarded as one of the greatest 8-10 running backs of all time, regardless of the brevity of his career. He WAS great, not “would have been great” if healthy.
AND THIS POST FROM YOU: DOB, why would the Dodgers who are in the hunt for the wild card or division trade a pitcher if he were worth his salt ? If your reply is they need Betemit at 3b then why not play Aybar whom you say is “AS GOOD”
ROB, have you been following the Dodgers? They’ve been pathetic since the break. Can’t score more than two runs a game. They’re in last in the West, fini, not in any wild-card race regardless of record. They’re SKIDDING, man. No offense whatsoever.
And where did I say Aybar “AS GOOD” as Betemit at third base right now? He might be, I have no idea. Haven’t seen enough of him ( have you?), but I didn’t write that, that I recall.
NOW, ON TO OUR NEW FAVORITE BLOGGER (and Don, SJA simply referenced a previous blogger who no longer posts here. Sorry, I thought you’d get the reference, because it’s made here often, but then I realized from your post that you haven’t been reading the blog for long. So, sorry about that.)
Anyway, we don’t block anybody who disagrees. Why should we? We’d rather your dissenting view stand out there on its merits.
So make a point, because the one about Schuerholz and the company line is, frankly, ridiculous. If I didn’t have Schuerholz and some players p**&^% off at me for ripping the Braves and pointing out their flaws, your accusations might sting. Alas, it’s hard for me to take you seriously when your only defense for any argument with me is that I toe the company line.
You really should read the blog more often, at least if you’re going to accuse me of that.
If you haven’t seen me rip Schuerholz for coming into this season with Reitsma as his closer, or read my blogs ripping the pathetic state of the bullpen for weeks on end, or calling Hudson a major disappointment, or saying when the offense was woeful that Bobby absolutely must get Betemit in the lineup every day and let him make starts at second, short and third, or that it made no sense for them not to try him at first base when LaRoche was struggling … well, Don, you can see where you’re kind of out there by yourself in making the accusation of me toeing the company line.
Or haven’t you noticed? Or aybe, since you have shown a remarkable level of pretense and smugness, maybe you believe all the other bloggers here suck up to me? See, there’s a difference _ just read all the posts here, how many say I’m wrong about or wrong about that or hate Sosa or Betemit, etc. A lot of them.
But you are the only one, or at least one of the very, very few I can recall, who goes so far as to say I toe the Braves’ company line. But hey, I’ll just tell the e-mailers who accuse me of being too negative that they must have the wrong person, that Don says I toe the company line.
By Ron Roberts
July 31, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
Longwood… I, too, wondered about the clubhouse after the Betemit trade, because it sure seemed the team was flat and uninspired afterwards; might’ve been a combination of Chipper going down, Betemit being gone and having such a bad night Friday, but ya have to wonder…
As for all the anti-DOB/JS crap…. it’s just that, crap. We wanted our bullpen upgraded, so it’s upgraded - SUBSTANTIALLY! Betemit was never going to be an everyday player with the Braves, so long as Chipper were (or gets) healthy, and Renteria’s producing and he wasn’t gonna be a 2nd baseman full-time. Betemit’s defense was average-at-best, sparkling occasionally and that wasn’t even at 2B. Aybar’s three years younger, has better upside, according to scouts, and he came with a reliever! We got a guy who replaced a guy with similar skills (and comes three years younger, and with options) and got a pitcher thrown in who was a darn good closer the year before.
I’ll take it. No defending JS necessary.
By KC
July 31, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts:
“Last season was a surprise (and yet fans still wanna harp on the playoff loss when the Braves probably didn’t belong in it to begin with)”
Thank you. There is no shame in losing to a better team. There were a couple of years over this 14 year run in which I felt Atlanta should have won it all, but didn’t. In most of those cases however, there was a team out there that was just a little bit better (or at least better designed for post-season success… IE: 2001-D-backs). No shame in giving it your all and making it to the playoffs. I’ve been very proud of what this team accomplished last year and every year before it.
By Stanford
July 31, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this
Robert(JIB): kudos… you nailed the Boston players the Braves might seek… you had the wrong Brave in the rumor, but good call nevertheless.
By Patrick
July 31, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
DOB, there are several reports out of Boston saying that they are about to get Andruw from us. Please tell me this is a bunch of BS
thanks
By Joe
July 31, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this
just heard Buster Olney talking about Andruw to the Red Sox
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this
Ok, people. Where are you guys getting the Andruw to Boston rumors from?
By T-Bone
July 31, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this
Buster Olney on Dan Patrick show just said the Red Sox offered Coco Crisp and Craig Hansen to Braves for Andruw and Braves countered by wanting Red Sox to add Jon Lester to mix. He didn’t say deal was imminent, just being discussed. Red Sox want to make a splash…
By Smitty
July 31, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Is Andruw on the block?
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
MLB TRADE UPDATE FROM BUSTER OLNEY The Red Sox and the Braves have talked about a deal that would send Andruw Jones to Boston for Coco Crisp, Craig Hansen and a prospect. But according to an executive familiar with the discussions, the Braves made a counter offer, asking for Jon Lester to be the third player.
By TommyB
July 31, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
Olney: Red Sox Discussing Andruw Jones According to ESPN’s Buster Olney:
“The Red Sox and the Braves have talked about a deal that would send Andruw Jones to Boston for Coco Crisp, Craig Hansen and a prospect. But according to an executive familiar with the discussions, the Braves made a counter offer, asking for Jon Lester to be the third player.”
This may be the surprise blockbuster that’s been rumored; it’s a testament to Theo Epstein that there hasn’t been a whisper of this til now. We’ve got just 2.5 hours to go.
If I’m John Schuerholz, I’d just try to get Lester involved and not worry about the rest.
By Joe
July 31, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
If they could get Lester in the deal it would be a good deal. May get Jake Westbrook also.
By TDub
July 31, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
About the potential trade to Boston: Don’t know if you saw last weekend’s games, but we probably should be sellers at this point. God, not seeing Andruw as a Brave though, that would be hard even if we got that deal (which is not bad).
DOB, after the stuff you wrote up above about Sosa and his personality, I have to ask: Why the heck did we make him the offer we made in the offseason? Cox and JS are very big on character, which Sosa obviously lacked, and we’ve seen in the past with Wright, Farnsworth, Burkett, etc. that pitchers who come back to life here for a year don’t really tend to back it up in later years. I trust JS and Cox (yes, I like the Aybar/Baez deal too), this seems like a lapse of judgement to me. Of course, hindsight is 20-20…
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
ESPN via MLB.com is reporting that the deal is in Boston’s court. Andruw will be traded if Boston is willing to part with Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, and a prospect.
I would make this trade in a minute if I was JS and get rid of the uncertainty surrounding Andruws’ future with the club down the road. Coc is fabulous and Lester appears to be the pitcher needed.
By ben
July 31, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this
Hi,
Don, do actually read what’s written or just continue to spout off nonsense? You people that act like DOB is a “mouthpiece” for management of the Braves just kill me. DOB has given 6-8 lucid valid reasons why HE thinks the trade was acceptable. I did not want to trade WB, but I think the team has a better chance to make the playoffs without WB and with Aybar and Baez. And for those of you too young to remember, Mike Hampton was a stud with Mets and a stud with the Astros. The Braves HATED to face him with either team. He WILL be back next year and he will be a force.
By Brad
July 31, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
Even though the deal sounds like a good one, at least for me, it woudn’t be worth anything to trade Andruw.
By TennesseePaul
July 31, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
Aybar is just trying to become as good as Betemit (which is sad).
Aybar is 23. 3 years younger than Betemit and better than Betemit was at 23. If Aybar continues to progress at his present rate (Hitting way better in the leadoff hole, with a much higher on base percentage), he will be better than Betemit without trying. It’s sad really. And by that time, he’ll be 26 and Betemit will be 29.
* I’ll wager that Sosa will hook on with a good team and pitch well*
Yes… the teams are lining up, waiting to trade top prospects for him. Arizona offered Drew. The Brewers, Fielder. The Red Sox were hoping to get him for Paplebon and cash. But they’ll throw in a few more top prospects if necessary.
[Betemit] could have played 2B for the next 10 years for the Braves
Thankfully the Braves watched WillyB play second before making that decision. I like Betemit, but he was not a great 2B. His strength was on the left side of the infield.
As to Millwood, Schmidt and Marquis… The Braves traded Schmidt in 1996, Millwood in 2003, and Marquis in 2004. From 2000 to present, the Braves have had the best pitching in the league. The ERA has been over a half run better than the league average. Millwood is on a 5 year 55 million dollar contract. And, at least through 1996 to 2005, the Braves have won the Division every year, and the NL several times. In that time Millwood has had an ERA of 4 and won just over half his games. Marquis has had an ERA of almost 4.50 And Schmidt has had 3 good seasons out of 10.
Remember Maddux accepting arbitration on the Braves … and that forced the trade of Kevin Millwood ? And Millwood is yet another very good pitcher the Braves gave away.
That doesn’t even make sense.
* If you look at it now, the Braves basically traded Millwood for Villareal & L.Cormier.*
So, in short, remember when Maddux forced the Braves to basically trade Millwood for two young lively arms with minor league options that had not yet approached arbitration eligibility?
By Patrick
July 31, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
Anybody that would even consider trading Andruw isn’t a true Braves fan. Trading Andruw is as bad as trading Smoltz or Chipper.
By geauxbraves2000
July 31, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
Maybe if the Sox threw in Ortiz, Manny, Papplebon & Schilling, then maybe I’d considering sending AJ that way. Maybe.
By Ron Roberts
July 31, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
If they make this trade, they’re telling me that we’re going after a marque big bat for LF next season. Crisp isn’t a basher, but he’s fast and hits for average, at least. And I don’t think we lose much on defense; in fact, with Andruw’s age and weight, we’re probably at the height, maybe slowly on the decline, of his on-field performances.
By Smitty
July 31, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
Betemit is only 24. He lied about his age when he signed and the Braves were punished by MLB for it. His birthdate just hasn’t been updated.
By Brad
July 31, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
Even though the deal sounds like a good one, at least for me, it woudn’t be worth anything to trade Andruw.
By Smitty
July 31, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
Betemit is only 24. He lied about his age when he signed and the Braves were punished by MLB for it. His birthdate just hasn’t been updated.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
What do you guys think about the trade if the Sox would take Hudson’s contract as well?
Regards,
Jason
By Billy
July 31, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
How bout SI’s rumor bout Braves intrest in Maddux.
By Ron Roberts
July 31, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this
If the Braves trade Andruw, there’s no Greg Maddux… letting Andruw goes makes us SELLERS in 2006.
But folks, keep this in mind… Andruw’s a free agent this offseason. So we rent him and bring him back. And get Coco Crisp and two young arms in the deal.
I’ll take it!!
By Aleem
July 31, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
The Boston Globe, the source that ESPN was reporting about said that the Red Sox rejected our offer of Coco, Lester, and Hansen for Andruw…
link
By Joe
July 31, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
if they could get Maddux they should throw Hudson in the Boston deal
By Billy
July 31, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this
DOB hurry up and get a new blog going these incesent rambling about the trade is getting a little over board.
My 2 cents
WB no matter how good he was was never going to suplant Renti or CJ. Why not get something for him while his value is high. People here make WB seem like a HOF’er. He prob will hit .280 20-30 HR’s with 80-90 RBI’s. Not bad but there not even close to what a healthy chipper can do.
By BB
July 31, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
Andruw’s a free agent after next season. But he cannot veto a trade right now. He can in August when he meets the 10/5 requirements. That’s why they might do it now. Personally, I really hope he stays.
By geauxbraves2000
July 31, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah, if the Sox trade for and throw in Oswalt, Willis & Pujols with the above mentioned in my previous post, that might turn my maybe into a hmm.
By brian
July 31, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
Don’t hide from us now DOB -
All of us wanna be GMs are dying for some trade gossip. What are you hearing that is worthwhile and what is BS?
By Ron Roberts
July 31, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
Damn, that’s right…he is under contract through ‘07! Negate my last post, then!!! lol
By ben
July 31, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
I think we OUGHT to trade Andruw. I love Andruw, he is a great player, but the truth is Atlanta is not a big money team anymore. We are going to have to start looking more like the A’s. A couple of high priced players (Smoltz, Hampton, Chipper) and more medium priced guys. I don’t think we can afford to pay Andruw when his contract comes up. Getting a leadoff hitter who is good on defense and 2 young arms would be great. But we need Lester in the deal, or Pappelbon……
By Billy
July 31, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this
ummmm AJ is not a free agent after this year……2007 wil be his last year under contract.
By TennesseePaul
July 31, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
Smitty: So what you’re saying is, not only was Betemit slow, but he’s a liar?
Thems fightin words.
By Billy
July 31, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this
for those interested
http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index
By Chop Chop
July 31, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
Since the Red Sox rejected Lester, Hansen and Crisp for Andruw Jones, I think you can safely assume that Andruw isn’t going to be traded…yet. I would expect the Braves to think about trading him in the offseason. I personally would rather work out a long-term deal with the guy and keep him. The Braves could always move him to left field when he loses another step (yeah, I think he’s lost a step) in center field. Unfortunately, the Braves may see his declining defense as the reason not to sign him long-term. They may feel like they can’t justify paying him even more money when he isn’t capable of providing Hall of Fame-defense anymore. It certainly will be interesting to see how things shake out.
By the way, someone mentioned (mockingly, to be sure) Paul Byrd’s name earlier in this blog. When a guy like Paul Byrd is making $7 million this season, it certainly does make you value Smoltz and his $8 million ‘07 team option, doesn’t it?
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this
Hey I love Andruw, best CF in recent memory but the business side in me comes out now and again just to rationalize trade rumors etc. That is the way it is nowadays so may as well play along.
Still not sold on Andruw being a bRave come next year anyway so if Boston decides to accept the rumored trade again I would hate to see Andruw go but can live with it.
To the blogger that said anyone that wants Andruw to go is not a true Brave fan, dude get real. I didn’t want to see anyonew go, Maddux, Glkavine, Klesko, McGriff, Schmidt, Marquis, and so on and on. Reality is in baseball it just happens so you may as well play what if and hope we get something in return. The only Brave I am dead certain isn’t going anywhere is Chipper. Everyone else is fair game evn Smoltz to a degree but that is very small and not wishful for sure. 4:00 tick….tick…tick…Go Braves!
By TennesseePaul
July 31, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
It’s like the night before Christmas…
By Stanford
July 31, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, on the other hand, just the fact that there was a discussion might indicate that JS doesn’t feel good about resigning AJ, so he may be on the table and a surprise could still be coming. Who knows?
We can’t trade him in the offseason without his consent, so it may be today or never.
By Smitty
July 31, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Yeah Betemit is a liar. I hope we can pull this deal off. We would be stealing those guys from Boston.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop,
As others have pointed out on the blog, Andruw becomes a 10/5 guy next month and gains control over when and who he can be traded to. IF the Braves are considering trading him, the next 97 minutes is the time do do it. I think the Braves should consider Hansen, Crisp, and another one of the Sox top pitching prospects (if they can’t get Lester). The Sox have quite a few pitching prospects and Hansen may be the closer in the near future. But, it would have to be their top pitching prospect in the minors or Del Carmen. Oh yeah, they should take Hudson’s salary (:
Regards,
Jason
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this
The proposed trade is not off according to MLB.com/ESPN….maybe some tweaking is being done though. Guys something is going to happen to somebody today on the braves…just a gut feeling that I have had for oh, about a week.
By Brandon
July 31, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
I don’t want to see Druw go, but getting Lester would be great.
By brian
July 31, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
of course you never hide from us. DOB - you get attacked like Bill O’Reilly. He gets attacked for being too soft on liberals or too soft on conservatives. You get attacked for being too close to the BRaves and for being too negative against the BRaves.
By Chop Chop
July 31, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
I’m well aware of Andruw’s upcoming 10/5 status. I just feel like the Red Sox are a team that Andruw would be willing to play for, 10/5 or no 10/5. The fact that the Braves are even talking to a team like the Red Sox about Andruw now leads me to believe that A) Andruw would go there, and B) the discussions that took place may be part of laying the groundwork for a deal in the offseason.
By Stanford
July 31, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, you may be right about AJ agreeing to Boston.
Just heard that Boston is inquiring about Kip Wells. This could mean either:
The Sox need starting pitching and would never consider trading Lester; or
The Sox need starting pitching because they may be trading Lester.
By TennesseePaul
July 31, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
The Braves could always move him to left field when he loses another step
The good part about that is, he was about 10 to 15 steps ahead of everyone else, so we got a little while. I still think he’s the Best CF out there. And as I’ve stated many, many times, resigning Andruw is not out of reach for the Braves, even with Budget constraints. (Assuming the new owner doesn’t come and and slash budgets to just over league minimum for every position, which I highly doubt. It’d ruin the investment). So it isn’t necessary to trade him. On top of that, you would have to get a lot to replace him. Not only another CF or outfielder, but also another bat. Andruw is the Only CF I know of that hits and fields as well as he does. We’d lose the “pop” and the defense if we moved him.
And, our starting pitching has fallen off the wagon. They’re nothing to get excited about. How bad would it get if we had less defense in the outfield?
Shudder.
By geauxbraves2000
July 31, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
I keep reading where AJ’s defense is in decline, apparently I’m not watching the same AJ as everyone else. He’s still the best CF in the game.
Geaux Braves!!
By Mets Stink
July 31, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
I’d hate to see AJ go, but JS has done such a great job putting together a winning team over the last 14 years that you have to trust what he’s doing. After the Braves’ performance this past week, it’s pretty obvious that they are going no where this year. Why not build for next year?
By geauxbraves2000
July 31, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
Less than an hour to go, tick tock…
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
Guys, I’m not hiding, I’m WORKING. Making calls, trying to get to the truth, rather than spewing rumors.
And here’s the truth, as best I can discern: Red Sox called BRAVES, not Braves calling Red Sox, yesterday (perhaps as a reaction to Yanks getting Abreu?) and asked if Andruw was available, since he’s going to be a 10/5 guy next month.
John S. asked for Jon Lester, who was rated the No. 22 prospect in all of baseball before this season and is 5-1 with a 3.49 ERA in his first 10 starts for the Sox this season, along with Coco Crisp, a potential start CF for next decade, and young reliever Craig Hansen.
That’s called swinging for the fences, which is John’s way. Sox weren’t about to trade Lester. No deal. And that’s that. I don’t think it’s still being discussed, and again, I was told Braves weren’t actively shopping Andruw, just listened when Sox (and probably other teams) called.
By eli
July 31, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
DOB
are we goin to make any more moves, what are you hearing….
i wish we would trade andruw for hansen,crisp and brandon moss….we would open up payroll….have another young power arm for our pen…have a starting OF and a good young prosect for the OF (somethin we do not currently have)
By Patrick
July 31, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB!
I heard another rumor. Giles and Thorman for Zito???
By Longwood's Finest
July 31, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the info DOB
By Don
July 31, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
CNNSI is reporting that the Braves are shopping Andruw for young pitching. In addition to Boston and Lester, it says the Braves offered Jones to the White Sox for Brandon McCarthy and were turned down.
By Tomahawkin
July 31, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
A. Jones to Boston, Hell No!!!, It Better not happen, That would be the Biggest PR Diaster since Justice and Grissom were traded…
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, you’re right about Andruw’s 10/5 status probably being irrelevant when it comes to a team like Sox. Like Chipper, Andruw isn’t going to block a trade and force Braves to keep him, not unless it’s to some podunk team in a horrible city (and those teams wouldn’t trade for him anyway, because couldn’t afford to re-sign him).
And Boras would probably advise him to waive 10/5 veto on a trade that would send him to a place like Boston, which could afford to re-sign him to a huge deal.
RobDawg, just saw a post from you this morning where you ripped me again after assuming you were the blogger I was referring to when I said we were glad to get rid of him. Don’t be so self-absorbed _ I wasn’t even thinking about you being a pain until your posts this afternoon. I was referring to Southern JA.
By KC
July 31, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this
Patrick:
Giles and Thorman for Zito??? That one sounds fishy to me. You didn’t make that up did you??
By Brandon
July 31, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
Good to hear DOB. I don’t know if I could handle losing Druw, he’s been part of the team for too long and he still has plenty of productive years ahead of him.
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this
Apparently, the Red Sox are ready to acquire Wells. Would they then trade Wells and Crisp to Boston for Andruw? NOt sure just a thought.
Can’t see the Zito thing working but who knows.
By Smitty
July 31, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
I wish the Sox had taken that deal. We would have stolen those guys.
By Tomahawkin
July 31, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
Where da he11 are some of you guys hearing this trade rumor crap…? I Guess you guys are hearing this junk from those turds at ESPN Who insinuated that Smoltz was going to be traded, Wrong! Wrong! cut the trade crap people unless there is actually any validity to the rumors…
No offense but I’m kind of tired of this rumor crap that ESPN Keeps spitting up, guess they are doing that to gain ratings to an otherwise crappy network…
By Brad
July 31, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
Dave, in your opinion, are the Braves looking to be buyers, sellers or holders? Did the horrific showing this weekend, which seems fairly indicative of this version of the Braves, finally convince management that they are done for 2006? I would much rather throw in the towel on the next few seasons and look to ‘08 or ‘09 with a legitimate chance to WIN the world series than keep trying just to get to the playoffs…
By KC
July 31, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
DOB
What do you think the odds are of the Braves trying to acquire Schmidt or Zito (if not today than over the winter)?
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
Giles and Thorman for Zito? That’s a good one. You were joking, right? No? Oh….
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What do you think about the Sox’s original offer of Hansen, Crisp, and a prospect? If the Sox were to include DelCarmen, Buchholz, Bowden, or one of their other pitching prospects, what would you think of the deal?
Regards,
By TennesseePaul
July 31, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this
Man I hope AJ stays. With all the losing going on and the horrid pitching, at least AJ is still there to watch. Trading AJ will cripple this team this year. Maybe not in the future, maybe, but certainly this year. There must be a better way to get starting pitching without giving up the one guy who covers 60% or more of the outfield.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
Does anyone ever check out factsand figures before coming up with these trades? We’re going to trade a 5 time All Star, with what will soon be 9 Golden Gloves, coming off a 51 HR season, about to hit 35-40 more this year? In return for this player we will get an outfielder who has been injured most of this year, hitting .265 with 11 SB and who has hit .285 with 39 HR and 65 SB for his career, a pitcher (Lester) who has no saves and a 4.79ERA this year and a career 4.94 ERA, and a pitcher (Lester), a rookie with a 3.41 ERA, 43K and 30BB? On what planet is this an equitable trade? You people are about to swoon and burst bloodvessels for this abomination. Give me a flipping break.
By KC
July 31, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
I’m sure DOB is correct about the way the Red Sox/AJ talk went down. That sounds about right.
They call and say hey “Is Andruw Available?” JS says “sure, if you give us your first-born.”
They say no thanks, and that’s the end of it. Andruw isn’t going anywhere.
By Patrick
July 31, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
wishful thinking
By TennesseePaul
July 31, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
Ahhh… such relief. Knowing the Red Sox are making the calls puts the rumors in perspective. Much like the Smoltz rumors…
By Tomahawkin
July 31, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
“Does anyone ever check out factsand figures before coming up with these trades? “
And…”On what planet is this an equitable trade? You people are about to swoon and burst bloodvessels for this abomination. Give me a flipping break.”
Lew I co-sign on what you just said, Cheese-Whiz people, Andruw, may have lost a step, but he is still the Best Overall Centerfielder in da game, even wit his once a year funks…
Seriously I think some of these people are brainwashed by ESPN’s fantasies, of breaking up the Braves…
By eli
July 31, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
trade andruw, he wont be around after next year….lets get rid of him for some prospects…and then trade hudson for some pitching prospects….i wouldnt mind getting pedroia,hansen and moss from boston for aj…and john danks or thomas diamond or both from texas for hudson….fire sale, fire sale….time to rebuild for another 14 year run
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
R. Hernandez and O. Perez to the Mets
By KC
July 31, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
I would really like to hear something to encourage me that Atlanta is thinking about another ace. I would love to see 3 aces at the top of this rotation once again. We’ve got 2 for next year (Smoltz, and Hampton). HoRam has a chance of becoming an ACE, but isn’t there quite yet. Obviously Tim Hudson’s the guy missing from this picture. He’s the ace that should be, but isn’t (at least not right now).
I would love to think that Jason Schmidt or Barry Zito could be in our future. We could deal Hudson and Giles to clear the payroll for such a signing.
Obviously, if we were able to trade fro one of those guys today… that would put us right back in the thick of the playoff picture.
It’s probably just wishful thinking, but I am wishing… BIG TIME!
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
Jason, no, I wouldn’t trade Andruw unless I got Crisp and another impact young player, a high-impact guy. Like Lester. Some quality depth for rotation next season.
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
Kip Wells is now with teh Red Sox
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
GARY GILLETTE Brad, the Red Sox and Braves are apparently playing chicken on this deal. The Braves reportedly want both Hansen and Lester, which ain’t gonna happen. But if Schuerholz would settle for Hansen and a lesser young pitcher—though still a good prospect—I think this could go down.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
Maybe if the Red Sox made it Crisp, Lester and Papelbon. It might be somewhat equitable. Or if they went with Hansen, Lester, Crisp and Trot Nixon, maybe I would listen. I guarantee JS was lanking their string and laughing in his hand when he asked them to include Lester. The whole time he sat there and said to himself, Yeah, sure.
By Longwood's Finest
July 31, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
Wow, what were the Mutts thinking?
By Tomahawkin
July 31, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
Mutts Got Homer Hernandez back…I look foward to that diaster, but Oliver Perez Scares me, that Dude has potential, especially now that he has a good team around him…
By Lew
July 31, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
Or maybe we could add Adam LaRoche and the Red Sox would throw in Kevin Youklis and Willy Mo Pena, too.
By KC
July 31, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
I don’t think Andruw’s lost a step. Says who??? What indication is there that he’s lost a step??? His shoulder may be aching, but as far as I know there’s nothing wrong with his knees.
I know it seems like he’s been around since the dawning of the age, but that’s only because he hit the big leagues at the age of 8! He’s 29 years old! 2-9 twenty-nine… THAT MEANS HE’S NOT EVEN 30 YET!!!!!!! To the best of my knowledge, he’s never had any significant problems with his wheels. Get real!!! Where’s this “lost a step” crap coming from?????
By dadgum
July 31, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
TALKS ARE HEATING UP….Again!!!
Crisp, Hansen, pitching prospect to Atlanta for Andruw. Checking on Globe and sports reporter program. Apparently it is not quite as dead as maybe people suspect.
By Joe
July 31, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
see where Andruw is gone and Zito is coming to Atl.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
KC,
That’s one of the things that makes this time of year exciting!
Regards,
Jason
By Longwood's Finest
July 31, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
If we trade AJ (hope not), our lineup is going to be pitiful for the next 2 weeks, and when Chipper gets back, who the he!! is going to hit cleanup?
By Pat
July 31, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this
Aybar Crisp Renteria Carlos Lee as a free agent Chipper Francouer McCann LaRoche
By mariner
July 31, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this
i didn’t realize the mets lost duaner sanchez for the season. he was in a taxi accident after the game yesterday and seperated his shoulder. losing sanchez and nady is a big blow to the mets. perez may have had potential, but his record reeks this year.
By KC
July 31, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
dadgum:
Could you post a couple links to the stuff you’re finding? Thanks!
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
The Mets needed bullpen help as Sanchez is out for the rest of the year after separating his shoulder in a car accident…that’s a pretty big blow as Sanchez has been really good this year. Of course, when you have a 15 game lead, not that big of a deal, but it coudl hurt come playoff time.
Regards,
Jason
By Choppin Bob
July 31, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
kc: there is nothing exciting about hearing rumors of andruw to anywhere for a bunch of dinky donkey yo-yos
By Carolina Lady
July 31, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
I need oxygen.
By Longwood's Finest
July 31, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Pat:
you’re kidding right…wow is all I can say
By KC
July 31, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
I just looked at the numbers for Crips and Hanson. I can’t see us considering such a deal with Lester in the picture.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Come on people, if everyone about had apoplexy over Betemit’s departure, what do you think the reaction would be to giving Andruw away? That’s what it would be, too. Giving up an All Star who is under 30 for 2 pig in a poke pitchers and an injured outfielder who has had one good year? Hansen and Lester may have plenty of potential, but they are an unproven commodity. Crisp has yet to prove himself for longer than a season. If Andruw were in decline, or was having a subpar season, maybe you take a chance. He’s under contract, too, for next year. If you want to jettison his salary, you do it at this time next year. As DOB said, 10-5 or not, Boras would talk him into waiving it to go to NY or Boston, or Anaheim. This guy is within a couple of RBI’s for the NL lead for crying out loud, not Marcus Giles who is having problems.
By KC
July 31, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this
Choppin bob:
You’re correct. If some one is offering the next great young pitcher in a deal for Andruw… I’m interested in hearing it. Otherwise, I wouldn’t deal Andruw, and I doubt JS will either.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 31, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this
3 uses of toe in a dob post. the deadline has passed. was a trade made?
By Shawn B
July 31, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this
Dadgum—why are you teasing KC…LOL the latest blog on the Boston Globe about Andruw says very clearly: Andruw Jones Not Happening
unless you are on a different Boston Globe site, the globe is saying that the deal is NOT going to happen
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Kip Wells to the Rangers
By Ace
July 31, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
Man it would’ve been sweet to trade Andruw for Lester and Coco Crisp. Imagine what those Francouer Franks and McCann Cans guys could do with Crisp. Plus he brings more speed. That would be a helluva trade if Boston would do it.
By KC
July 31, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
GOOD NEWS!
The Mets just got Oliver Perez. If they’re so desperat that they’re trading for a guy with and ERA of over 6.00… that must mean that they ain’t gettin’ Schmidt or Zito.
By Choppin Bob
July 31, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
if andruw goes i will become a full blown alcoholic. i am half blown right now since our play over the last week. i wanna throw up.
By TDub
July 31, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
Coco’s Locos?
By Shawn B
July 31, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
Man today is a disappointment. I know you don’t make a deal just to make one. But it is still pretty disappointing to not make any moves, for now or for the future.
By KC
July 31, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
Shawn B:
The word “teasing” seems to me means a hinting at something you want to have happen. Andruw to Boston for Crisp, Hanson, and a prospect… that ain’t it!!!
By TommyB
July 31, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Maddux to Dodgers.
By Stanford
July 31, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Not So Good News: MetsBlog confirms Scott Miller’s earlier scenario: the Mets have sent Oliver Perez and Heath Bell to San Diego for Scott Linebrink.
By Carolina Lady
July 31, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
Choppin’ Bob, not on the blogcarpet! :-)))
By Voice Of Reason
July 31, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
I’m hearing Maddux to Dodgers. Can anyone confirm that?
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
KC,
I posted that 30 minutes ago (: I guess the Braves made no deals. Oh well, let’s go have a good road trip!
Regards,
Jason
By krath
July 31, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
Maddux to Dodgers
By cmk
July 31, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
The Sanchez injury won’t be a killer on the field yet - Hernandez is a serviceable replacement and Milledge can replace Nady, which he already did for a spell once this year. But it does limit any trades they may have been working on that might have involved moving Milledge and will certainly hurt the bullpen come playoff time. They are just lucky that the accident was last night and not tonight, after the deadline.
By eli
July 31, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
wow JS is the worst GM in baseball right now…we gave up betemit for baez and aybar…mets give up HEATH BELL AND OLIVER PEREZ FOR SCOTT LINEBRINK!!!!…certainly JS could have given up somethin better then this for linebrink and still kept betemit!!!!!…fire sale, beginning with JS and cox…then fire sale of our overpaid players
By Lew
July 31, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Ace, Read some of the above posts. You couldn’t be more wrong.
By Choppin Bob
July 31, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
coco crisp’s play is like eating mushy cereal. i dont like it, the trade or the cereal.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 31, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this
maddux to the dodgers. lots of ex-braves there now.
By Wayne
July 31, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
Maddux traded to LA for Cesar Izturis
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5832966
By KC
July 31, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
stanford:
Who is Heath Bell?? He must be pretty damn good if the Padres are willing to part with Linebrink for him. Oliver Perez and his 6.00-plus ERA couldn’t be the thing compelling them to make such a deal.
I dunno… I’ll believe that one when I see it.
By Head Coach
July 31, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
Ive accepted the Betemit trade even though Chipper went on the DL and that made it hard to swallow. Question , just for arguments sake. Lets say Aybar plays great as the leadoff hitter and keeps hitting , Chipper comes off the DL and Aybar Goes where ? Back to the bench while Giles holds down second. I wait to see the soap opera play out in two to three weeks.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 31, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
braves’ site reports no deals made today. braves will stand pat … or is that pratt?
By Mac
July 31, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
To me Management has just written off this year, and said there’s no way a trade could make the difference to get this team into the playoffs. Pitiful.
By I think with a drawl
July 31, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
Andruw is Atlatna Braves baseball. Trade him, and tear down the Ted while you’re at it. Thanks for nuthin’!!!!
…my God, getting rid of the best Brave since Hank Aaron, you gotta be kiddin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Stanford
July 31, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
KC, that’s just what mlbrumors says … I don’t know it for fact.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
Lugo to the Dodgers
By ncscoots
July 31, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
excuse me, folks, but how could you in good conscience make any trade to “make the playoffs” after witnessing the starting pitching of this past weekend? That would border on the delusional.
By KC
July 31, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS!!!*
THE BRAVES HAVE TRADED ANDRUW JONES TO THE RED SOX
for:
CoCo Crisp, 1st base coach Jon Deeble, and an order of Boston Chowda Company’s New England Clam Chowda in a bread bowl.
Hey, don’t knock the trade until you’ve tried the “chowda”! Trust me, it’s unbelievable!!!!
By eli
July 31, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
so i guess JS has given up on this season, i guess the fans should to…i will continue to pull for our guys to make a push, but JS has hung us out to dry by not upgrading our rotation…if he thinks we are out of it this year, he should have traded for prospects…regardless, there was no reason to stand pat today…if we are going to make a push, we needed help…if we are done, lets get some young guys and prepare for the future…i am utterly disgusted with our management at this point…maybe we can make it interesting, but i dont see it happening with the way our starters are pitching and with chip hurt and without betemit to replace him…if we dont get back in it soon, lets try to get some guys to clear waivers and make some deals…also, august and september should be an audition for next season and the future
By Lew
July 31, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
Mac, Maybe a trade would have made the difference getting to the playoffs, but just what trade did you want? Just because a trade would be good, doesn’t mean there was a good trade to make. However, unless the Braves turn around their starting rotation, it would have taken two more top line starters to make a difference. That was never going to happen, and if you think it was, you’re living in dream land. However, the trades JS did make should make us a better team in 07. He got us three new players and only gave up Betemit and a class A minor leaguer. That’s better shape than two weeks ago.
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this
Oh, no, my friend. Braves not standing pat.
THIS JUST IN: It’s an earth-shaker…. well, maybe a slight trembler … Oh, wait, that was me bumping into the desk and knocking my coffee cup over.
Anyway, Braves TRADE JORGE SOSA to Cardinals for RHP Rich Scalamandre, a 25-year-old reliever who will be assigned to Richmond. That’s it, folks. That’s the extent of deadline-day dealing. Talk about much ado about nothing…
Anyway, Scaly (to go with Salty, you know) doesn’t have anything exceptional about him, near as I can tell. He was a decent prospect, has stalled.
This year: 3-0 with 4.26 ERA in 15 app. for AAA Memhis, 19 hits, 8 walks, 18 K in 18 inn , .264 OA; and 4-0 with 4.55 ERA in 29 app for AA Springfield, 29-2/3 inng, .246 OA, 28 hits, 10 walks, 30 K.
At least they got a potential reliever for next season in return for Sosa. I didn’t think they’d get anything, frankly, before the waiver deadline.
By KC
July 31, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
eli:
What makes you think JS has given up on the season??
Because ESPN reported that the Red Sox inquired about AJ? Because we haven’t made another trade today?
For cryin’ out loud… it’s been all of 2 days since JS made a trade to strengthen the teams chances this year!
By TDub
July 31, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
Our friend Dayton Moore had a good day today, getting Shealy from Colorado… I have a feeling we’re going to miss him.
By eli
July 31, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
and the dodgers have traded joel guzman and another minor leaguer for lugo…why could JS not get guzman in the betemit deal…he would be our starting LF for years…JS needs to find some of the magic that brought us McGriff…or maybe he should just retire and we should get dayton moore back…our great dynasty is on the verge of falling
By Longwood's Finest
July 31, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
Don’t bash 14 year’s of excellence from JS.
By Stanford
July 31, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
Sounds like Scaly has strikeout stuff, at least. It’ll be interesting to see what Sosa can do in a new setting… good for the Braves for getting anything for him.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
Eli-Reference my above post to Mac. Just because you think a trade needed to be made doesn’t mean one was possible. I mean we apparently could have traded the NL’s second leading RBI man to the Red Sox for an injured outfileder who had one good season and a pitcher with a lifetime ERA of 4.94. Man, that sure would have strengthened us, wouldn’t it? However, you would have been happy because a deal was made. Best reason in the world for JS to pull the trigger. KC-Maybe if they included part ownership of Legal Seafood and let them sign their names in the Green Monster.
By ncscoots
July 31, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this
TDub, who did they trade for Shealy?
By Hal
July 31, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this
Ahhhh the humanity of it !
Another volume of built to win left on the trade table,unsighned and undelivered
By Mac
July 31, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
Lew, the trades I hoped he would have made would have been to either shore up the rotation (because this one isn’t going to get us there) or to get another big bat to at least help overcome this pitiful rotation this year. I do agree with you on one point JS has strengthened the team for next year which leads me back to my point that JS has pretty much given up on making the playoffs this year and says so by his inaction.
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
Howdy, Y’all; only got a minute before I go to a meeting. However, no need to be bored tonight; TBS has something special planned for us. Let me hit my “Guide” button and see if I can pull it up for you…
By journalist jimmy smith
July 31, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
journalist guy curtright has been traded to new york for famed journalist grantland rice. though rice died in 1954 the trade has some upside. rice has plenty of time to fill in for dob.
so, not standing pratt, huh? we have obtained a salamander. this is very different than the big relievers acquired earlier. salamanders have slender bodies, short legs, and long tails. better order some pants now before salamander reports.
By eli
July 31, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
KC
Because JS did nothing today…he did not shore up our most pressing problem of the rotation…he made our pen better by getting wickman and baez…then you obvioulsy move to the rotation and fix it…the cards,yanks,mets,dodgers,rangers, all these teams had the balls to make moves to make their team better and fix their needs…JS stands by with his thumb up his a$% and does nothing…we are 6.5 games out but have a lot of teams to pass…i hope we can do it, but JS has not put us in an ideal position to make a real run at the wild card…he did not make the necessary moves in the offseason and it has came back to bite us…his inability to make a move to shore up the rotation will also come back to bite us…we needed help and JS didnt get it…he did not do his job today…he should have either got us some help or moved some guys for prospects and looked to the future
By KC
July 31, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
eli:
Chill man… take your Ritalin!
Our great dynasty isn’t on the “verge of falling”. JS will pull the trigger on whatever deal makes sense, but he’s not going to do something stupid out of panic.
If we don’t make the playoffs… we don’t make the playoffs. It’s not the end of the world. Things look great for next year, and with some of the kids we’ve got on this team… things look good for the foreseeable future.
By Stanford
July 31, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
eli, correct me if I’m wrong, but looks to me like Joel Guzman is a weak-hitting rookie 3B.
By David O'Brien
July 31, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
Eli, what a post. Reasoned, thoughtful. If the Braves need a starter, dammit, they should be able to get a good one _ NOW!
And if they don’t, then they’ve given up on the season.
Maybe they should just sell the uniforms, give the equipment to local youth leagues, and rent out the Ted for softball games the rest of the season. Because it’s over. We’re all doomed.
By TDub
July 31, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
ncscoots, from ESPN: The Colorado Rockies have acquired left-hander Jeremy Affeldt and right-hander Denny Bautista from the Kansas City Royals for infielder Ryan Shealy and right-hander Scott Dohmann.
By ncscoots
July 31, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this
jjs, salamanders have great balance, though, and reportedly have the natural grip (toes) for throwing a wicked slider.
By Hal
July 31, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this
A salamander amid a hurd of water buffalo?
isent that like trying to cross the river that is the national league east in a boat with out an ORR or a PRATTle?
By journalist jimmy smith
July 31, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this
a two-toed amphiuma, perhaps? a whistling salamander? this could be a good trade. jimmy smith thinks a salamander might be an upgrade at the position.
By Hal
July 31, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this
A salamander amid a hurd of water buffalo?
isent that like trying to cross the river that is the national league east in a boat with out an ORR or a PRATTle?
By Stanford
July 31, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
eli, sorry — see he is an OF in the minors (but has played 3B in LA). Maybe a good prospect but I don’t know. As to the rest of it, all is not lost. There was nothing JS could do to salvage a losing season without giving up the farm. And we could’ve signed Clemens, Oswalt and Liriano and still had a poor chance of making the playoffs this year.
By Lew
July 31, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
How can anyone doubt how good JS is? He managed to give Kolb back to the Brewers and dumped Jorge Sosa and got two players in return. That’s amazing. He got a closer, a set up man and at the very least, a good utility man in exchange for a utility man and a A player who no one ever even heard of. Do you think we needed that closer and setup man? These moves alone give us more of a chance to win the rest of the season. It is a virtual impossibility to revamp 2/5 or 3/5 of your starting rotation at the trade deadline. This doesn’t make Scheurholz a bad GM, it just shows that you have unrealistic expectations. What other GM with the holes to fill that the Braves had, did any better?
By Shawn B
July 31, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
KC—-i was just teasing you earlier man chill out, some people here take this blog WAY to serious. Remember, most of us on here are Braves fans, we’re on the same side, as far as baseball goes anyway
By Tonight on TBS...
July 31, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
“Brave Under Fire.” (1994) True story of Journalist Jimmy Smith trapped in the famous fire at Turner Field during the ‘94 season. Watch Jimmy grimace like Charlton Heston painting the Sistene Chapel, melting pen in hand as the flames threaten to engulf him as he refuses to leave until his story is fit for print…Baby seal tries frantically to beat out the flames and rescue parent Jimmy Smith, while Jimmy’s estranged wife (Amy Irving) looks on helplessly and teary-eyed from outdoor monitors. Acadamy Award Winning actor Jamie Foxx plays newly aquired Braves slugger Fred McGriff, who when told of Baby Seal’s heroics vows to “Win one for the Flipper.” Also starring Tom Skerritt as Ted Turner, Pamela Anderson as Jane Fonda and Wes Studi as Chief Knockahoma. Followed by back-to-back-to-back episodes of “Friends.”
By TDub
July 31, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this
ncscoots, from ESPN: The Colorado Rockies have acquired left-hander Jeremy Affeldt and right-hander Denny Bautista from the Kansas City Royals for infielder Ryan Shealy and right-hander Scott Dohmann.
By The Man
July 31, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this
eli likes men
By KC
July 31, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
REPORT:
ANDRUW DEAL FALLS THROUGH AT LAST MINUTE
source: AP
A blockbuster deal that would have sent Atlanta Braves all-star Center Fielder, Andruw Jones, to the Boston Red Sox for Outfielder “CoCo” Crisp, 1st Base Coach, Jon Deeble and a bowl of delicious New England Clam Chowda reportedly fell through during the final stages of negotiation.
Sources close to the discussions indicate that the Red Sox were unwilling to include a package of oyster crackers in the deal. Braves officials insisted that the Chowda wouldn’t taste the same without them, bringing both sides to an impasse that could not be resolved before the 4pm EST non-waiver deadline. Officials from both organizations declined to comment.
By The Grinch
July 31, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
See, Y’all; nothing to worry about, programming wise. Gotta run; see ya later…
By Riley Martin
July 31, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
It has often times been said that a salamander’s toes are usually quite reliable and heal very quickly and things of this nature. This could be a good thing. Has the esteemed journalist heard of the said slamandes’toe health?
By Snowball's Chance
July 31, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
This is a year when JS could take advantage off the waiver system where, if I have it right, the team with the worst record gets a shot at the player. The catch is, is it worth it. Watching two streaks go down the tube at home is depressing.Then again ,last year I wrote off our chances.
The streak was predicated on few injuries and solid starting pitching and usually shaky closers. I’m not sure about our starters this year ,even before injuries. JS is filling holes in a sinking boat. I like his patches, though.
By LMAO
July 31, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
Lmao at “Win One For The Flipper”
By geauxbraves2000
July 31, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
I would’ve like to see a move for a starter, but this is just a non-waiver deadline, not a whole lot of teams right now that would block a deal to the Braves.
Geaux Braves
By Carolina Lady
July 31, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
Grinch, well done! :-))))))
By Ron Roberts
July 31, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
Folks, the pressing need for this year’s team is starting pitching, and many teams were out there looking for it, and not finding it, really.
If this season is a wash, (and I think it’s probably so, but who knows….), then Schuerholz had to remain vigilant not to ship out anything that might or will be valuable to this franchise in 2007 and beyond. So big deal.. no viable trades were made by Atlanta, today. For the best, with 2007 in mind, if you ask me.
By eli
July 31, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
will someone explain to me how we can compete with our rotation as it is…hudson sucks right now, ramirez cannot be counted on, james has been shaky, and we have shiell as our 5th starter…how do we make a push for the wild card with this rotation…an inability to shore up this rotation shows me that JS has given up on this season…i could be wrong, and i hope i am, but i wish JS would have made a move to get us a starter…i did not want him to make a deal just to make a deal…and maybe he did not have a good option out there…but i am very disappointed in JS not making a move…i am sorry, i do not want him fired or believe we are on the verge of falling, i was just royally pissed in his inactivity today and was venting out of frustration, i was wrong about that…but i am a very disappointed braves fan today
also, stanford, joel guzman was an IF with the dodgers but has been moved to the OF…i believe he had a good spring training but did not make the squad…in 317 ABs in AAA this year, he is hitting .297 with 11 HR and 55 RBI, an OBP of .353 and SLG% of .464…he is 21 yrs old and is 6’6, 250 lbs…he is not a weak hitter…TB made a great move by acquiring this kid…i wish JS could have gotten him in the betemit deal
By Boomer
July 31, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this
I there any way we can play the rest of our games on the road?
We play terrible at home!
It probably has a lot to do with our terrible starting pitching. It is deflating to came to bat in the bottom of the first down 3 or 4 runs.
On the road we make the other team come to bat in the bottom of the first trailing by a run or 2.
Momentum can be a wonderful thing or it can scare the hell out of you. Depends on which way you are going.
By Longwood's Finest
July 31, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this
eli- you can’t be a “braves fan” when you ramble on about how everyone sucks. Who cares about this Guzman kid anyways?
By Choppin Bob
July 31, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this
kc: i heard the dispute of the oyster crackers was because JS wanted them salted.
By Sammy Kershaw
July 31, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this
This is what mark Bowman of atlantabraves.com said about the Betemit trade.
As for Aybar, it appears he was the true centerpiece in the deal with the Dodgers. The Braves believe he’s capable of being their starting second baseman and leadoff hitter by the start of next season.
What you think about that Don? I guess he is a puppet of JS too right.