Braves

By Austin

July 28, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

David if the deal gets done when would you say it would probably happen?

By nathan

July 28, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

Shocking DOB That I would respond 1st isn’t it?

Any supposed “under the radar” moves, that JS is working on?

Yes, I realize that if you know about it then it’s not really under the radar. But what’ your gut? Is there somthing BIG coming, will he surprise us?

Just curious. Hey, you never let me know what you had for a late night snack the other night! LOL!

By nathan

July 28, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Forgot to ask this DOB.

Can we actually count on anything from Davies the rest of the year? Has his rehab gone well? Or is it safe to assume he won’t help, and just let him get healthy for next year?

Thanx man, nice blog as always.

By David

July 28, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Dave, lets get real. Giles is not a lead-off hitter. Especially when he is half the size he was 2 years ago- If you know what I mean.

By Austin

July 28, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Giles is on pace for 12 HR only 3 less then last year and h eonly had 8 in ‘04

By Mikey

July 28, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

Im thinking the Bravos will lose badly to the Mets this weekend with or without Betemit.

By TDub

July 28, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Is it me, or do Linebrink and Wickman look like a before/after photo after a few trips to the buffet (or, if you live in Roswell like me, one trip to Greenwood’s)?

Would love to have Linebrink, but still hate to lose WB. We’ll need another utility guy, but Conine? Feh. His numbers are good, but I’m irrationally skeezy on Oriole vets after the Surhoff debacle and I wouldn’t want to give anyone up for him - except for Sosa, of course, maybe Mazzone will take him back…

By Mitchell

July 28, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

There ya go!

I agree with everything you just said.

By Tonight on TBS

July 28, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

After the game…

La Roche Nikita (1990)

A diffident, lackadaisical first baseman is transformed into a lethal slugger under the tutelage of a ruthless manager. In French with English subtitles.

By KC

July 28, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Okay… I’m starting to feel better about the Linebrink/Betemit thing. It would certainly be nice to see that bullpen in extremely good shape heading into August. And it certainly would be with the addition of Linebrink.

If we pick up a solid infilder to go along with him, we shouldn’t miss Betemit that much.

Any chance of including Langerhanz and Dave Roberts in that deal??

Don’t get me wrong, I think Scott Thorman is the future in left field, but for the stretch run, it would be nice to have Roberts and some speed in the fold.

By mskott

July 28, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Don’t trade Betemit, C.Jones is hurt far to often. Keep him for the same reason other teams want him, low cost and production. Stop trading away talent for rent a players who become free agents (Sheffield, Drew,ect.)

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Man I hope this deal goes down. Not just for this year, but Linebrink is relatively cheap for next year at 1.75 mil (club option). Would sure be nice to have that role filled going into the season for a change.

By Don

July 28, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, I understand why 1 save isn’t pertinent for Linebrink. He’s not the closer so he rarely gets a shot at a save. But if he’s 1 for 7 in saves that means he’s blown 6 leads, which seems like a fairly high number given that we’re not to the end of July. How are 6 blown leads not pertinent?

That being said, I’m closer to being OK with dealing Betemit for Linebrink than I am for a late bloomer, i.e. potential flash in the pan, like Procter.

However, if the game plan is to keep Linebrink only through next year or whenever his contract runs out and let him go elsewhere because the Braves can’t afford to give him a new contract, I say thumbs down on the trade. Enough of these short-term rentals. If we’re not going to pay to have a decent bullpen, let’s take our lumps until we can bring enough live young arms up through our farm system and wear them out for a few years before they move on to the Yankees or Red Sox. The chances of making the wild card with or without this trade are still not that great. You quoted 22% the other day before the Braves lost 2 of 3 to the Marlins.

And I’d wait until Sunday to make the trade. If we get swept by the Mets (hopefully we won’t), we should be a seller instead of a buyer.

By Charles

July 28, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

I think the GM has gone made. He is the only safety valve. People may want to pay attention as to the age of some of your superstar players. Mike Dumpton (Hampton) is a bust. We need Betemit and a reliever. Trade a prospect or something we need proven players. The future is not just Jeff Francour and Brian Mcann. Betemit is an everyday player that plays multiple positions. Big mistake!!!

Jeff Conine will help us as much as helped before. Does anyone remember the out dated outfielder from last years run???? Exactly!!!! Do not trade the future.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

As usual, I posted last on the previous blog 20 minutes after everyone left…(sigh). I sincerely hope Linebrink’s arm is ok; if we go through with this deal (which I still think is too much to give up) and he turns out to be damaged goods, I’ll be very unhappy. My dog is recently deceased, but I may decide to kick my neighbor’s.

By Kevin C

July 28, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

DOB

good information as usual, I think a trade will take place Monday at the earliest. This weekend will determine some other teams fate and the trade market will adjust. Soriano has to be the number one target of many contenders but Bowden is an idiot,teams are not giving away young talent for rentals unless they are the Yanks who can buy out their mistakes, he should stay with the Nationals, he is their Dan Synder. As for the Braves, many have suggested that the trade JS makes are the ones nobody hears about until their done. Giles is staying for this year but who knows past this winter, if JS can get Linebrink so be it, I think he can resign Wickman for next year at a reasonable price and Linebrink is under contract I think through next year. The one player I would love to see JS go after is Willis, I know many think he is untouchable but if the Braves send Salty and a pitcher or two, would you do it if your JS? Too many reports keep coming out of Florida about the Marlins losing money and no new stadium in sight, maybe they would trade him. Even if we do not win this year, the Mets wil have to give Zito whatever he and his agent want and the Braves have a younger and cheaper player. DOB what do you think?

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

DOB: What is Linebrinks contract status? Would the Braves be in control of him for another year or what? If we get him for more than 2 months, I like the deal. Betemit strikes out so much. And those numbers on Giles are pretty revealing. I hope he steps it up even more. I like the guy, just bummed on him this season. But his defense at 2B is far better than Betemit’s. And lastly, if we do move Betemit, we won’t have to figure out how to say his name.

GO BRAVES

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

Hey, Mikey’s back… How are those Cubs Mikey?

By Longwood's Finest

July 28, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Let’s just sit back and let JS work his magic, and why does everyone want to give up on Langy…does anyone remember who our best hitter was down the stretch in September (hint: he was in LF). Everyone: If you are going to the game tonight, be loud, be very very loud

By Smitty

July 28, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

I just hope Bobby doesn’t ask his number three hitter to bunt anymore.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, it’s a $1.75 mill team option for 2007, very reasonable ($1 mill cheaper than Reitsma this year) and is guaranteed if he pitched 100 games during 2004-05, which he’s already done.

Gotta shower and get to the park. Later, folks

By TDub

July 28, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Ah yes, the Mutts are in town. Thought I smelled something.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Meant to say if he had 100 games in 2005-06, not 2004-05.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Fixin’ to go to the gym and work off some of the beer I’ll be drinking tonight; here’s to Pedro being rusty like Wallace!

By Spike

July 28, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

I think you keep Betemit, make Yates the setup guy, deal Sosa for something and win the wild card..easy stuff.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

talent for rent a players who become free agents (Sheffield, Drew,ect.)

This line comes up so much. What have the Braves lost when making those trades? They didn’t lose the season. They didn’t mortgage the future. Sheffield went on to set the Atlanta single season RBI record. Drew had the best year of his worthless career. Had we not traded for either of those guys, we wouldn’t have won those years. We wouldn’t have had anyone in the outfield. It would have been the 80’s again. A couple of season of glory followed by mediocrity and anguish. And secondly, Betemit isn’t the future. The Future for the infield is more likely to be Yunal, Elvis, and Eric Campbell. Possibly even Salty at first. With James, HoRam, and Davies in the rotation. If Linebrink can stick around for a year or two, we’ve got a good deal. And Betemit lovers, check out his strike out rate. It’s the worst on the team (excluding pitchers).

By Longwood's Finest

July 28, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

Easy if we could find someone to take Sosa. What happened to him yesterday anyways?

By Greg

July 28, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

Any word on a Phire sale in Philly? Rheal Cormier’s more impressive than Linebrink or Proctor, given his homepark. Plus, check out Arthur Rhodes home and away stats. I would think Rhodes could be had cheaply. And Cory Lidle would be a major upgrade from Thomson/Schiell/Davies.

By paluka

July 28, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

DOB: What is this noise I keep reading about Soriano? There is no way the Braves can get alphonso Soriano but they may be able to get Rafael Soriano from Seattle, which is more realistic. Also do you or anyone else know who/what JS is saying when he says there are other pieces he is looking into? If JS is looking for another utility guy how about Marlon Anderson or Niefi Perez? Another thing: if Betemit/linebrink trade goes down will there be other players involved such as Dave Roberts?

By Rob

July 28, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Happy Birthday to Betemit!!!!!!!!!

By Manufacture a run...

July 28, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

Maybe JS surprises us with a deal for Crawford….wishful thinking

Or maybe bring back Charles Thomas. We don’t have anybody who can steal a base with regularity. If we did we wouldn’t have to rely on the HR all the time.

By Spider29

July 28, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

David, that Betemit for Linebrink deal sounds pretty good to me. We certainly need reliable help in the bullpen. Those guys have done fairly well over the past few weeks but another good arm won’t hurt. I like Betemit but I feel like he has never been in the Braves long-term plan. Maybe in San Diego he will get a chance to play everyday. It seems that he has earned that. I remain surprised, for some reason, at the number of people who want Langerhans traded. After watching Diaz and Thorman play the outfield, it is reassuring to know the Langerhans is there as a fine, late-inning defensive player off the bench. Actually he hasn’t proven to me that he can’t play everyday. His hitting has shown signs of life recently and his outfield play has been outstanding. Well, the big weekend series is upon us. I’m hoping for a sweep but will take just winning the series. Go Braves!

By Longwood's Finest

July 28, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Thank you Spider, Langy is a GREAT defensive ballplayer and has shown signs of life in his bat. One recent slump and everyone is sh!ting on him…

By mc

July 28, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

Agreed. Roberts, Crawford, Pierre, whomever…just someone that can put pressure on the D.

Look what Perez does for the Mutts with his legs; causes lots havoc for opposing teams.

By JasonInMaine

July 28, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

I had posted this to the previous blog for anyone who cares:

From ESPN Insider - Betemit for bullpen help Jul 28 - The Braves are looking for a power arm in the bullpen, and there are rumblings that the Braves have spoken to the Dodgers about dealing Betemit for Danys Baez, but it’s not likely to happen, according to ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark. The Braves could once again consider the Yankees’ Scott Proctor, Stark reports, but Atlanta needs to figure out if it really wants to part with the 24-year-old Betemit, who’s been invaluable to the Braves as a utility infielder.

Man, I happen to be in the minority and feel that Betemit should be traded for a good, legit power arm…but not Baez!

Regards, Jason

By CharlotteDave

July 28, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

Betemit for Linebrink would be a tough call for me. Except for closers, relief pitchers aren’t very sexy, so it’d be sort of painful to trade a young everyday player like Betemit for a set up man. Yet we’ve learned first hand this year just how desperately important relief pitching is - not that we didn’t already know that. Only the Braves know what type of future they believe Betemit has in Atlanta. If they would probably trade him during the off season anyway then they might as well do it now and improve the team’s playoff chances. If on the other hand, they believe Betemit can play a prominent role in the future then maybe they should hold on to him. Again, it’s a tough call. I guess I’ll leave it up to Johnny Schuerholz to make that decision and live with it either way.

By Mikey

July 28, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Hey guys I just checked the standings today and lo and behold its the Mets in first place and well over .500. How about that? Thats pretty good. Some other teams were below them, under .500. What division do the Bravos play in? Ah yes, thats right, in the Mets division

By Chop Chop

July 28, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

Since the Brewers traded Carlos Lee and Nelson Cruz to the Rangers today for Coco Cordero, Kevin Mench, Laynce Nix and a minor leaguer, that takes one big bat off of the market a few days before the deadline. I guess it also means that the Brewers haven’t completely given up on this season, which is a good thing for Brewers fans. I wonder if Schuerholz had talked to the Rangers about Cordero in the last week or so.

Anyway, I would be on board for a Linebrink/Betemit deal. I truly believe that if the Braves wanted to keep Betemit, they’d play him out in left field some. If the Braves don’t see Betemit being a regular starter at any position in Atlanta in the future, they’ll have a hard time seeing the point in refusing to trade him for a top set-up guy.

Here’s a look at Linebrink’s stats:

Scott Linebrink

Look at his last four seasons in the bigs. Those are the numbers of a damn good relief pitcher. To me, the most important numbers in those stats for Linebrink are the strikeouts, WHIP and BAA. The Braves would be hard-pressed to find anyone better than that for Wilson Betemit. After all, as I’ve stated before, the best team to trade Betemit to is a team that sees him as an immediate everyday starter. The Padres see Betemit that way and the Braves don’t, so if Linebrink is offered, the Braves should take the deal. Whether it comes back to bite the Braves later on, I guess we’ll see. What makes it easier to stomach is that Linebrink would be a Brave next year, so Betemit wouldn’t be given up for a two-month rental.

By Brent

July 28, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Blowing 6 leads is important; but, that # alone doesn’t tell you much.

A guy could come into 6 games with a 1 run lead, no one out, and the bases loaded.

Allow one of those runs to score, and you’ve got a blown save.

By KC

July 28, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

If the Linebrink/Betemit deal is made, it certainly makes us a better team next year as well.

If we want to bring back Wickman, I don’t think we’ll have any trouble doing that for about the same money he signed for this year (1 year-5 mill).

Next year we will have to give arbitration pay raises to Giles (if we keep him), and LaRoche. We’ll also have to absorb the entire 12.5 mill we’ll owe Hampton next season (this year ins. took care of most of that).

However, the money we will save with the departures of Sosa, Reitsma, and Thompson should compensate for those payroll hikes.

So not including Wickman or Linebrink, we would have almost exactly the same payroll we started this season with. But we also had 6 mill left over, and that should be enough (or very close to it) to keep Wickman and linebrink in the fold.

So assuming Liberty Media doesn’t slash payroll next season (and I seriously doubt they will do that)…

We should have (with an almost the identical payroll) a roster almost exactly like the one we will finish the season with this year, with a few notable changes:

• Sosa, Reitsma, Thompson.

• Hampton, Boyer, Foster.

I like it.

By robert sanchez

July 28, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

WOW DAVE

You made me pop a stiffy after reading the article today. Linebrink for Betemit and a little pickup like Conine and i honestly believe we are a shoe in for the wild card. think about if we had bobby wickman and linebrink THE WHOLE YEAR! thats another 15-20 wins and we’d be competing for another divisional title. maybe we can still go for it. i just got my tickets for tonights game. see you there f@ckers!! give those mets fans as much sh*t as you can. i hate the mets GOOOOOOOOOOOO BRAVES

By Greg

July 28, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Whoever gets Soriano will win the World Series. The guy is a serious clutch hitter. Add him to the Twins or Sox, and he will cement the lineup.

By Bama Brave

July 28, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Trade Betemit? No way. While Chipper has been great, his injuries are starting to show that he’s going to miss more games into the future. If so, you have to have more than a mere body to have production at the left corner. Giles reminds me a lot of Pete Rose but with his numbers, current salary and contract ending, it would indeed be a gamble to count on a future investment in him. Bottom line, dollar for dollar, Betemit is the answer as a reserve to Chipper and a hedge to Giles.

However, if a trade is a must, best it be made late Sunday night. The 3 game set with the other yankees will be over, we will have a little better idea where we legitimately stand in the wild-card race, and we might have a better idea whether our recent roll has turned to, well …

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

KC: *We’ll also have to absorb the entire 12.5 mill we’ll owe Hampton *

About a month ago DOB laid out Hampton’s contract. We recieved a lot of money with Hampton of which JS spread over the remainder of his contract. Because of that, we only have to shell out, I think it was 8 million. So it isn’t all that bad. Hopefully Hampton will come back and pitch well.

By eli

July 28, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

will someone please tell me what we are going to do when chipper or giles gets hurt again…trade some prospects for a set up guy…let betemit play some LF…bring up stockman…go get mike gonzalez to setup…linebrink is a good reliever, but not worth betemit, wilson has been to valuable to trade for one reliever!…prado,pena,orr cannot fill in for chip or giles without a dramatic drop in production

By KC

July 28, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

Apparently you can’t use “plus” or “minus” symbols here.

wanted to say…

minus: Sosa, Reitsma, Thompson

plus: Hampton, Boyer, Foster

That’s pretty much the same thing as signing a big free agent starter and two good young middle relievers in the off-season. Next year looks very, very good. Especially if we can add Linebrink.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

That worked out to be about 8 million a year for the remaining years on his contract. Not just next year. My memory could be off on the figure. But I do recall it being under 10 million.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Whoever gets Soriano will win the World Series. The guy is a serious clutch hitter

we’ll see. The last time Soriano was in the post season he was something like 1 for 19 with 18 strike outs. Then the Yankees dumped him for A-Rod who’s something like 0 for whatever and a slapped first basemans glove in clutch situations.

By Mikey

July 28, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

Ive got news for all of you, none of those trades will help the fact that you will be watching the Mets in the playoffs this year while your team will be getting some early tee times on the golf course

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

I don’t like the Idea, of dealing Betemit, especially since Chipper gets hurt once a month it seems, Betemit is too valuable when Chipper goes down, instead of having to use Pete Orr

Trade Langerhans, or someone in the Minors 4 relief help, unless its Scott Proctor, and a minor leaguer from WhineBrenner and the Yanks…

Last Series was pathetic, We’re playing Flat now 4 the big Series wit the Mutts, I see us losing 2 of 3 if we don’t beat Pedro, to give us some added motivation…

By grizzly

July 28, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

hey dave, speaking of giles being half his size than he was 2 years ago, chipper said that he lost 20 pounds over the winter from a “stomach virus”

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Well if we trade Betemit, I better not see Pete Orr take his spot when Chipper or Giles gets hurt, otherwise I’m throwing in da towel, on our postseason chances

Also On the Carlos Lee Trade this morning…

What I find ironic about it all is that ESPN Mentioned nothing about Carlos Lee to the Rangers, or that Kevin Mench or Co-Co Cordero would be available

That just further goes to show that 85 percent of the crap that those Turds say on ESPN Isn’t worth a Damn….

By Mikey

July 28, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

The braves are more than 11 games out, and with the sweep coming their way this weekend you can just pump that number up…the towel should have been thrown in a long time ago

By trevor

July 28, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

here you go again, starting rumors. Please start one about a stating pitcher ,That is what we need most. We can move our 4 or 5 guys to th ebull pen

By Drew

July 28, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

Why don’t the Bravo’s trade for John Thomson and Kyle Davies to fill both the starting rotation and bullpen holes. Oh wait, they are already Braves who should both be back very soon. If JS thinks they can be a factor in August and September, he should keep Betemit! Unless he could pick up Chase Utley (or the like) for Marcus Giles! That is the only trade that I see really helping the Braves over the long haul!

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

Bama Brave…No Offense, but I think that none of these overpaid baseball players, remind me of Pete Rose

The closetI can think of is Robert Fick, because he plays dirty…

By KC

July 28, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

TennPaul:

I am very optimistic about Hampton’s return. With the exception of his first 1/2-season in ATL (when he was still getting his mechanics and his head straightened out from two years in Denver), he has been excellent for the Braves.

He’s had a lot of arm trouble, but that’s not unusual for a guy in the years leading up a Tommy john surgery.

The good news is that now-a-days, most players completely recover from that surgery after about 18 months (that’s how long doctors say it takes to fully recover from ligament replacement surgery). Most players come back after 12 months, and it takes them another 6 months to get back to 100%.

Hampton on the other hand will already be at that 18 month mark when he makes his return next spring. And his rehabilitation has already been going quite well.

I think we’ll see very good things out of Hampton next season.

By Vol

July 28, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

I was totally anti-Proctor, feel much better about Linebrink (but love Betemit just like everyone here).

I didn’t think about packaging Dave Roberts in the deal, but that makes a lot of sense after reading some of the posts. How does SD feel about him? What are the other immediate needs for SD that we could fill?

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t like Dave Roberts in leftfield, He’s old and his arm sucks, Rather have Corey Patterson out there…

Mikey, You just can’t stand to see happy Braves fans can you, lol You wait til later in the season once we start playing with some emotion

And those Choppas will be out, cut “These Choppas will tomahawk yo top down here in Georgia”, Ha Ha Ha

What Hapopened To That SouthernJackass Junkie, Did his a-s-s go back to school or get banned off…Or better yet probably got his a-s-s kicked at a bar or something…

By Sonny

July 28, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

If you think trading Giles instead of Betemit is smart, ask yourself this…with a penny pinching team like the Braves, is Giles worth $5 mil more a year than Betemit, when Wilson is as good a player and you could use use those extra dollars to build a legit bullpen next year.

By Mikey

July 28, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

I would like to thank Mike Hampton and the Colorado school system for giving the mets supplemental draft picks used to draft David Wright. Hall of Fame career being put up by hampton huh?

By The Dude

July 28, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

Just say NO to Conine. He can’t help this team. The offense either needs speed or a serious power threat, not a 40 year old utility guy. He brings nothing to the table except a veteran presence, which is highly over rated. Either you can play or you can’t.

By Vol

July 28, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

The guy I really wanted, Carlos Lee, just went to the Rangers. He was not cheap at all for a guy that’s a free agent next year. Rangers gave up Mench and Cordero, and there were a couple of minor leaguers exchanged.

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

July 28, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

This is a mistake. We need another bat!

By geauxbraves2000

July 28, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

The real question is, who helps the team better in the last couple of months, Betemit or Linebrink? If Betemit goes, is there enough on the bench to replace him? Is the pen dominant w/Linebrink or could they survive without him?

These questions and more answered on the next edition of Who is Where on August 1st.

Geaux Braves!!

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

4 what Mike Hampton is gettin paid, He better win over 15 games next year, or many of us in the “A” are gonna get in his a-s-s

By KC

July 28, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Mikey:

Congratulations on the drafting of David Wright. He’s a great player.

Hampton has been derailed the past several seasons by 2 things: Pitching in Denver, and injuries.

He’ll be healthy come April and if Hampton were a free agent this winter, the Mets would go after him aggressively. A lot of teams would. They would certainly be far more anxious to sign Hampton than to re-sign Glavine.

By Dave nockahomer

July 28, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

DOB….IF this trade goes through, does that Linebrink will be free agent at end of the season? If that is so, we don’t need him! We need the future…and that means Betemit! We could end up paying through the nose at the end of the year IF Linebrink goes into free agency….and we would end up with neither him nor Betemit. Folks: with the way our starters have been going, we don’t have any reliable but two….Smoltz and Ramirez. The rest are useless.. We need to build for the future. Chipper’s days are about gone and I know there are some in the minors who may be brought up when that time comes….BUT BETEMIT is ALREADY HERE

I hope JS has sense enough to see how we play the Mets tonight and Saturday. If we lose both those games, he best just leave things along.

okay. back to the main question:

Will Linebrink be able to file for free agency at the end of this season?

By eli

July 28, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

if we are going to trade(and im totally against it for just linebrink)…try to get roberts and barfield as well, and a young pitcher like stauffer,meredith, or carillo

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

Conine would be Just like Brian Jordan if he came here, I’m not doggin Brian bust man he was a huge disapointment

By Ron Roberts

July 28, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

To heck with the bullpen… if our rotation, after Smoltz and Horacio, continues to be a shaky Hudson, a wobbly Thomson (hell, he’s better for us on the DL lately), and the Richmond call-up of the week (I’m not counting on Davies til I actually see him pitch at this rate), then we need to find a serviceable starter.

Go get Maddux and get that $%#@&!ing bullpen afficionado of a pitching coach to work with what we have, now that we have Wickman in the fold.

Just my two cents.

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t Tampa Bay need a first baseman? Travis Lee is lame and has played most of their innings there. Don’t know if they’ve got a prospect lined up or not.

I wonder if a Thorman for Crawford trade might be possible? I know Thorman is a great prospect, but he’s really a 1B and a very mediocre OF (can you say Klesko?), and we don’t need two young left-handed 1B. But we DO need a stud strong-hitting base-stealing LF who could bat leadoff.

I’m not looking to dump Thorman and wouldn’t trade him for a rental or a middle reliever, etc, but a deal like that might make sense.

By eli

July 28, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

should have said if we are going to trade betemit

By bc

July 28, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

You just wonder if you could pry Linebrink away from the Friars without giving up your best bench guy - probably not. Man, his stats read more like a lefty than a righty - kind of a Remlinger in reverse - should that give us pause? Final thought, let’s wait until next year before we write off the Hampton experience as a failure. The guy has more guts than all the guys John Wayne portrayed over the years.

By Choppin Bob

July 28, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

kc: if liberty doesnt slash payroll but say add some do you think soriano could be a possibility?

By The Dude

July 28, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

The player that would fit perfectly with the Braves would be Soriano, to bad we can’t afford him. A player like that could change this season like Fred did way back when. Never gonna happen though, just thinking on the blog.

By geauxbraves2000

July 28, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Soriano, minus his show off attitude, would be a great fit for the rest of the year, but the cost to get him wouldn’t be worth it.

Don’t trade Betemit.

Geaux Braves!!

By BIGG DADDY DOGG

July 28, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

give up wilson, your defense and offense will suffer because of the injury situation?lastly you will never see wb’s upside. they don’t look strong enough this year to win it all. so why give WB for a unproven pitching talent????

By KC

July 28, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Choppin Bob:

Well if Liberty added payroll, anything might be a possibility depending how much they are willing to spend. However, I seriously doubt they will be adding payroll. I don’t think they’ll slash spending either.

Time Warner has developed a nice little business model with the Braves… keep income and expenses in the same ballpark (no pun intended), and in a few years, sell the team for 50-100 million more than what it was worth when you acquired the franchise.

I suspect that Liberty won’t change much of anything.

If payroll stays the same, Soriano is a near impossibility.

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

Now I’d work with Betemit 4 Carl Crawford

NO SORIANO, IT AIN’T GONE HAPPEN So Hang That Up

NAnd send Schill to the Blowpen, he has not shown me much to be a starter, I’d rather see Villareal start, because when Schill falls benind in the count bad thins happen, and thats 4 any pitcher

By Lew

July 28, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

I’ve got to agree with KC. Hampton has been good for the Braves even with a torn up knee, which is also now fixed. His rehab has apparently gone verywell. I think Linebrink could shore up the bullpen problems pretty well through next year. For all of the Betemit groupies. Do you think there might be a reason the Braves haven’t made him a full time player? Do you remember when BC said he would play a lot more and then didn’t? It’s entirely possible they don’t think he would be effective. Up to this point he has been a supersub, but that is all. He hasn’t played more than a couple of weeks straight. You don’t even know how good he might or might not be over a full season. It’s not likely he will find out in Atlanta, anyway. Prado is ready and can play both positions if necessary. The Braves are packed full of middle infielders. I’m sure he could be replaced if it meant shoring up the bullpen for two years. Linebrink might just do that.

By BIGG DADDY DOGG

July 28, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

NICK GREEN FOR MIDDLE RELIEF HELP.

By KC

July 28, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Stanford:

That’s the first sensible thing I’ve heard anyone say about Thorman. Most people fail to realize how talented he is and want us to trade him for flippin’ Juan Pierre!!

If we could send… say: Thorman and Brian Pena to TB for Crawford, that would be great. But I just don’t think TB is in any hurry to part with him.

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Actually I like Soriano’s show off attiitude, reminds me off when we had Deion, the game needs more of that, thats what put fans in the seats

And makes the games interesting to watch, instead of watching overpaid athletes play like they don’t give a damn…

Wonder Why Pro and even College Football blows the MLB In ratings?

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

Juan Pierre Sucks, He has lost a step in teams of speed, and is just as bad as Jonny Damon defensively

Most people who want Juan Pierre over here just remember the days when he used to steal 60+ bases wit the Marlins, Now he’s garbage with the rest of that flubbies team

Damn! This blog is jumpin…I can tell is Friday, I’m ready to get on that Drank and hit up that Club…

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

KC, I know his name was bandied about (?) on the rumor wires, but then so was just about every other player’s. TB always cuts payroll and Crawford is scheduled to make some $$ in the next few years, so who knows? Probably not though…

By The Dude

July 28, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

Thorman for Pierre…in a heartbeat. Thorman is just another Wes Helms, nothing more.

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

Pierre Sucks, Nuff said…He is not the basestealer he was with the Marlins, and I just said that his Defense Is just as bad as Jonny Damon’s

By paluka

July 28, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

Stanford: Are you kidding Thorman for Crawford. Tampa wouldn’ be able to stop laughing long enough to say no. Tampa is not going to trade its best position player who is signed to a good contract. I agree that it would be nice but come on that is ridiculous

By geauxbraves2000

July 28, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

There has got to a decent hitting/fielding third baseball out there somewhere, trade a couple of prospects for that person and then flip him for Linebrink. Win-Win situation for the Braves.

By Drez

July 28, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

Trading Wilson Betemit is similar to the trade that shipped Jermaine Dye out of ATL. It’s so obvious that Giles is the guy that needs to go. I’m aware that Giles has a larger contract, but JS needs to work his magic and get someone to take Giles off of our hands and give us some quality relief in return.

By Chop Chop

July 28, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

This team is five games under .500 with Betemit in the lineup on a consistent basis. Sad, but true. Wilson’s helped a lot off the bench, but Scott Linebrink is a strong (and, for his numbers, quite cheap) set-up guy who can help the Braves immediately. The way I see things, second base is the only infield opening that is likely to exist next year. I’m convinced that Giles is going to be traded in the offseason, so it would be nice if he could tear the cover off the ball over the next two months and help restore his value. That being said, Betemit can’t field the position well. He’s either a third baseman or a shortstop. While he does have enough pop in his bat to be a good offensive contributor, I’d much rather have Chipper and Renteria’s bats over his.

As much as some of you may not like it, I don’t think trading Betemit is perceived as a bad thing by the Braves’ front office. They’ve stockpiled plenty of better-fielding middle infielders in the minors that can handle his role and the Padres would want Betemit to start everyday at third, which is something the Braves can’t (and won’t) provide him the opportunity to do.

In a perfect world, I’d like to have Betemit and Linebrink, but that’s not going to happen. And if the Braves were considering moving Betemit for Scott Proctor, that is a stark view of how well Betemit fits into the Braves’ future plans.

Schuerholz, if the deal is there, do it.

By paluka

July 28, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Geauxbraves2000: The third baseman you are thinking of is Aaron Boone.I do not know who Atlanta could send to Cleveland to get Boone, but if we could get him then send him to San Diego I think it could work out

By Lew

July 28, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Come on Tomahawkin-Soriano can hit, but has much in the way of downside, also. First-the salary. He’s making $10 mil this year and having an excellent offensive season. He will at least be due Furcal money and maybe more. There’s just no way we can take on a contract that’s likely to approach $15 million. Second-The guy is a lousy fielder whether at second or in left. He’s so bad you can knock of about 10-15% of his offense by offsetting with the runs he will give up. He’s had attitude problems everywhere he has gone. When was the last time the Braves brought in someone who would ruffle BC’s feathers. If they did, how long did they stay? As far as Carl Crawford goes, the Rays are not going to give up a player of his talent, making as small a salary as he does. Not without a piece of the ranch along with him. I think it is highly unlikely they would trade him for Betemit straight up and I don’t think that we have enough of anyone else to make them interested. They’ve gone the boomer route before, so I don’t think Thorman would make enough difference to swing the deal. Actually, his upside is so great with talent and salary, I think the Rays would be nuts to give him up. We won’t even discuss Juan Pierre.

By The Dude

July 28, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Who thinks Pierre’s stats are bad. He started slow but now he’s hitting .279 and has 37 stolen bases. Looks pretty good to me.

By shawn

July 28, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

DOB Not to be negative but IF the Braves tank and lose all three to the Mets would JS reverse course and start selling instead. And honestly do you think IF we make the playoffs we would get out of the first round. The guys we are hanging on to are just going to be one more year older next time around. Do you think with the Angels. Tigers, White Sox, Yankees, Twins, Red Sox, and even Mets desperately trying to improve that we could get some real talent for Smoltz, Chipper, Andruw, Giles, Renteria,Pratt, Thompson and Hudson. I know that some of those are 10/5 guys but do you really think that wouldn’t approve a trade to get in a hot race in the AL. The talent we got back and payroll relief to use for next year would huge. Now DOB honestly wouldn’t that be worth more than playing five extra games this year?

And before I get reamed I am a long time Braves fan back to Mahler, Mahler, Solomon, and Niekro days so don’t say I am not a true fan. We have to do what is BEST for the team in the long run, even next year not just for the last two months of this one…

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

paluka, I don’t know… they let Jorge Sosa get away!

Sure you’re right… just dreamin’.

By Choppin Bob

July 28, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

we dont need another belliard or lemke offense in the line up. i say wilson moves monday after the series because we will need his bat, not an arm to beat the mutts.

By paluka

July 28, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop you are absolutely right. There is no future in Atlanta for Betemit. Send him to San Diego now so we can have Linebrink for the Mets series.

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Lew,I don’t want Soriano, I Work wit a bunch of Ranger fans and they say he can be a cancer in the clubhouse if he doesn’t get his way, much like a spoiled athlete

Also they say he is lazy as hell in terms of his work ethic

By geauxbraves2000

July 28, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Thanks paluka, Aaron Boone has playoff experience, played in the very harsh New York setting, he may thrive in San Diego.

I know I’m just dreaming perhaps, but in an ideal situation, the Braves get Linebrink and don’t have to give up Betemit.

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

The Dude, Have you seen Pierre’s defense, other teams will run at will on his a-s-s

No thanks to Pierre…

By The Dude

July 28, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

I agree there is really no point in discussing Soriano, however, with the exception of his refusal to play outfield, when has he been a problem. I’m not saying he hasn’t, but what other instances have there been? Just curious.

By JCB

July 28, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

Shawn, I really doubt that JS would be able to sell like crazy before the deadline. Because you said if we lose all three. Well, the third would be lost on Sunday if that were to happen, Deadline is Monday. Dont see it.

By paluka

July 28, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Drez: I agree with you that Giles is the one who needs to be traded but there is no market out there for him. Maybe Toronto and maybe the Cubs but that is about it. If Betemit couldn’t play third then I would think there would be no market for him either.

By The Dude

July 28, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

You put Pierre in left where he would be above average. No he doesn’t have a good arm, but that’s what left field is for. You only have one long throw out there, unlike center or right.

By The Dude

July 28, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

A Pierre trade isn’t going to happen either, I’m just saying I would gladly trade Thorman for him.

By Lew

July 28, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

Shawn-Chipper and Andruw have both said on numerous occaisions that they will not play anywhere else. Chipper has gone as far as saying he would retire if necessary. They aren’t going to approve a trade. You might as well just get used to it. The same with Smoltz. Renteria is an all star this year and is hitting .320, and is signed for two more years with Boston paying a substanital portion of his salary. At the moment he is arguably the best shortstop in the NL. Why would you want to trade him and who would you get to replace him with these stats. He is likely to win a Gold Glove and Silver Slugger this year. You can’t get any better than that. You’re not going to get anything in return for Pratt or Thomson. At the end of the season, Thomson’s contract will not be renewed (he’s in his final year) and the Braves will have a $.5 million savcings to use in the offseason. This leaves Hudson and Giles. Giles has little value at the moment and neither does Hudson. If they do well from here on out, move them in the offseason.

By Lew

July 28, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

Excuse me, that was $4.5 million for Thomson.

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

The Dude, I’d rather have Patterson in left

Patterson makes 3 million per year as opposed to Pierre who makes 6 million per year

By Lew

July 28, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

Soriano had incidents both in NY and inTexas. He is a pain in the a##.

By The Dude

July 28, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

I believe Lew is the only sane person on this blog. Don’t bother argueing with me, I’m out. Ya’ll have a a nice weekend and we’ll see what happens this weekend with old Beatyourmeat.

By MGL

July 28, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Prado has been getting some time at 3rd at Richmond. If wilson gets traded and no backup bat get’s here, it looks like Prado.

By paluka

July 28, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

I just read on the San Diego Tribune website that San diego is definitly scouting Betemit but more importantly is that Linebrink “only” wil make btween 1.75 2.25 million next year depending on how many games pitched. I’m sure that is what JS is very interested in, aquiring someone at low cost and not arbitration eligable

By Robert

July 28, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Let’s offer Betemit and Cox for Linebrink

And pray the Padres are fools

By Tomahawkin

July 28, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this

MGL, I handle Prado, Just as long as Pete Orr gets sent down

By The Dude

July 28, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this

ok, last thing in response to Tomahawkin. I’d take Patterson as well, although I don’t think, numbers put aside, he would meet the Braves needs. But that’s beside the point. My original point was about Thorman, not Pierre or Paterson. I’d trade thorman for either.

By Robert

July 28, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

For what it’s worth, Linebrink is a far rarer commodity than Betemit (a really good non closer middle reliever vs a marginal backup infielder)

I doubt San Diego would do the trade, even if we improve the offer by keeping Cox

By Daybed Wagmoe

July 28, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

DOB - i hope you wrote this blog with a knowledge that there’s a strong possibility that the betemit/linebrink deal will happen, and i’m assuming that you did because otherwise you wouldn’t have written it. how good of a chance does this deal have of actually happening? will san diego be willing to deal linebrink?

By shawn

July 28, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

Actually Lew, Chipper and Smoltz said they would LISTEN. Andruw is actually just short of 10/5 status.Renteria is not the main focus in what I was saying but add up the salaries of Chipper (35 next year and stats are in three year decline with consistent injuries), Smoltz (still very good but not getting younger),Andruw (free agent after next season), Hudson (10 million next year)…good luck tring to trade him then). As for Thompson…just get rid of him and Sosa. Pratt as well. Bring up our young infielders and catcher and let them get some playing time. Look I am only saying is 75 million more than the Marlins payroll for aging guys to play 5 more games if we make the playoffs worth this. And next year they will only be older. The AL teams are needing these type players right now. Let these guys get in a pennant race because truth be told we aren’t. If not now….when…next year when there value is even lower. Branch Rickey said it best it is better tootrade a player a year too soon than a year too late….eg. Dale Murphy

By paluka

July 28, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

After reading the San Diego paper, it souds as if they are more interested in aquiring Josh Fields ( a top prospect) from the White Sox. Therefore it may be time to look into another alternative. Pittsburgh has a few good arms in their pen. They need a first baseman, a catcher and outfield help I’m sure JS can come up with something for eithe Solomon Torres Mike Gonzales Damso Marte or John Garbow.

By Steve

July 28, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

Trading Benemit would be the dumbest thing we could do. While I agree we need some more pitching help. Trading away this guy is wrong. It’s time for Cox to quite showing loyalty to players that are not producing. Benemit should starting at 2nd and leading off. Marcus I am sorry, but you are not the player that you once were. You don’t have that power anymore and come to think of it your brother has lost power too? I wonder why that could be???

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

This deal could be huge and makes our pen a helluva lot stronger than its been since 2002.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

Betemit is a great utility guy, but he’s never gonna get the chance to play everyday for the Braves. Plus, he’s coveted by teams with better relief arms than our own. That’s why he’s got to be traded.

By Chop Chop

July 28, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

If the Braves had a guy named “Benemit”, Steve, I’d be all for keeping him forever and ever. Alas, “Benemit” does not exist.

By Lew

July 28, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Shawn-You don’t have the figures quite right. Hudson is due $6 mil next year and $13.5 in 08. I have a counter proposal for you. Don’t worry about Chipper, Andruw or Smoltz. I assure you they will be going nowhere and they don’t need to. If you are able to trade Hudson and Giles, hopefully we could get 4-6 good prospects for them. You will also save $11.5 million next year. Thomson ($4.5), Sosa ($2mil) Reitsma ($2.5 mil) and Jordan ($1 mil) will be gone next year. Their contracts are up and I sincerely hope none are returned. I doubt they will be. The total savings here is $21.5 million and you still have Smoltz, Andruw and Chipper who are hardly chopped liver-that’s why they are making the big bucks. Now if this all comes to pass you will still have the veteran nucleus of the team returning, Boyer and Foster returning and a rotation of Smoltz, Hampton (don’t worry he’ll be fine) whose salary was prorated throughout his Braves tenure, so he will be making $8 mil, Davies, James and Ramirez. We will still have Yates and Paronto (Ray, too) and hopefully Linebrink. Wickman will re-sign with the Braves-count on it. All of this plus the prospects we get for Giles and Hudson AND $21.5 million to fill in the blanks. Isn’t this more reasonable and realistic than dumping everyone?

By Lew

July 28, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

As far as the thinly veiled steroid references pertaining to Giles. Get real. The super testing was done all of last year, too and Giles had plenty of power then. His problem is trying to go to right using a pull hitter’s stance. Quit trying to stir up a bunch of crap.

By 1 + 2

July 28, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

I still believe the Braves should hold onto Betemit and move him to 2nd base next year. Marcus and his $5MM will be gone next year, as will Pratt, Jordan, Thomson, and Sosa.

And if we are going to trade Betemit, we need to do it after this weekend series. If the Mets kick our a$$, then we need to hold onto Betemit and jettison Giles (and his $5MM contract) next year. Then JS need to resign Wickman (if he continues to be solid) and bring in a $hit load of relievers to battle for the bullpen.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

*You don’t have that power anymore *

Marcus is going to hit more homers this year than last. Plus, he has picked it up as of late. Plus, Betemit is nowhere close to as good a fielder as Giles is at 2B. And we could use a good veteran reliever in the pen. I like this deal if it works. But we shall see. JS always pulls a rabit from the hat when it comes to trades.

In the mean time… Let’s GO BRAVES! We gotta win tonight! HoRam, be on your game. Joneses, prepare to slaughter those Mets. Let’s get Pedro knocked around early. Then let’s pound the tar out of that pen. It’s the second half now, most those Mets are first half players.

By Chop Chop

July 28, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

If Betemit can’t field the position most likely to have an opening next year (second base) and the Braves don’t trust him enough as a full-time starter at short or third to try to move Renteria or Chipper, Betemit is only going to be a part-time player in Atlanta. Since the Braves’ organization is stocked with middle infielders, Betemit is a logical piece to be moved. Case closed. I’m not saying it’s a great idea to move Betemit at the moment, but as long as you’re moving him for a guy who would really help solidify the bullpen this year and next year, I’ll go along with it.

By shawn

July 28, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

Lew that is a good start and I would go for that but what I am saying is not just dumping the salary but that at least with Chipper and Smoltz age is coming on fast. Chipper had a great 20 games but that just shows how low his numbers have been especially power which is why he is here. Three years in a row he has declined. I am just saying age, injuries, and money are the reason not to mention what we could get in return. If the Braves were 10 games over maybe I wouldn’t even have mentioned it but every one is excited over the wild card. If we win it, which if we are a .500 team we shouldn’t, what did we really accomplish. So we make some trades to win the wild card, get kicked out in the first round and everybody comes back only a year older and still expensive. I really do appreciate each one of those guys but this business and right now there are more reasons to trade them than there is to keep them .500 team again next year? I hope not.

By eli

July 28, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this

we need to trade for blake dewitt of the dodgers and eric patterson of the cubs and move him to outfield…and get brandon moss of the red sox…trade for broxton of the dodgers…..we have a future team of: 1b-laroche,thorman,salty,kaahihue(sp)

2b-prado,campbell,patterson

ss-andrus,escobar

3b-dewitt,pope

of-brandon jones, moss, patterson, frenchy

c-mccann,salty,sammons

sp-james,davies,lerew,reyes,harrison

rp-devine,boyer,mcbride,startup,gunderson,hyde,broxton 2008 the dynasty begins anew

By Andy

July 28, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

I think the braves will have vinny and kelsco and Linebrink—-AND maddox for the catcher pena. That is my feelings—yes the medcation has yet to kick in—-Maddox yes because he will help the younger pitchers as much as he will ot shine Sncheil or thompson—davis will be back in September so Maddox will not prevent him from being on the team—Vinny will be a defensive backup—kelsco will be a trow in for WB and a salery dump—he will be great for the braves—play 1st and left every once in a while and basically be a pinch hitter in the playoffs if the braves get there. He is still injured or will be on his rehab—will be brought up in time to make the post season roster. This will be cool.

By Ted

July 28, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

Finally some sense from DOB. The ONLY reliever the Braves should consider dealing WB for would be Linebrink. And good to know he would be under contract for 2007.

As for Proctor, I stand by my statement that he is overrated simply b/c he’s a Yankee and with him being overworked this year, he will be worthless/injured next year. That said, I fear that if the Yankees trade for relievers from the Pirates, they’ll dump Proctor on the Braves and sucker JS out of WB. For some reason which escapes me, all this “noise” seems to indicate that the Braves are enamored with this HR-prone journeyman with 0.5 of a decent season in his career.

As for other rumors, if JS traded WB for Baez, I’d vomit.

Anyway, more will become clear after this weekend. I’d love to sweep the Mets to get into single digits just to make them sweat a little. But 2 out of 3 is almost imperitve for WC purposes. Hopefully Pedro is rusty tonight and the Braves remember how to pummel Glavine tomorrow. Then let the chips fall where they may on Sunday.

By MGL

July 28, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

It amazes me how the Betemit lovers overlook his significant fielding problems. I think that the only position he can play decently is 3rd and then, you are going to lose some DPs. He does not have enough range or quickness to play a good second or SS. I’ve rarely seen him lay it out to try to make a play, and he is slow to get the ball out of his glove. As a result, we would miss a number of plays that we take for granted.

He is a great utility player as he switches and can pop the ball. He strikes out way too much, and he is only a possible full time 3rd baseman. Hence trade him if the return is good.

Management got Renteria instead of WB and I’m glad they did. If they trade Marcus, they will probably go after another 2nd player or try Prado or others. I’m comfortable that they see WB’s appropriate value and possible future on the club and will make the right decision.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this

Howdy, all. Tomahawkin’, I’m about to join you in gettin’ that drank on. Time to stomp the Mutts! Did someone actually just insinuate that Lew was sane? :-)

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this

Lew: Yes. It’s way more reasonable. The only thing unreasonable on this blog is the Giles/roids BS… The trade everyone so we can be the Marlins BS… and the Cox blows remarks. That and the Mets fans that pop up every now and then.

We have enough money to keep all these guys. We have enough to resign Andruw as well. And we still have about $4 million left to spend this year. We’re in good shape to make a good trade.

Andy Marte was called up today to play for the Indians due to the lack of production from Aaron Boone. I’m not sure if Boone would be enough to get Linebrink. As for who takes Betemits place… well, Tony Pena, Jr., Yunal Escobar, and Martin Prado could all do it.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

This deal is a good deal. Plain and simple. I understand the desire to keep Betemit. I have the same concerns with getting rid of him that most of you do. However, you have to choose the lesser of two evils. What do I mean? It the last day of the season against the Astros. Jeff Francoeur hit a three run home run putting the Braves ahead 6-5 after 7 innings. Who do you want to come into the 8th inning to bridge the gap to Wickman? Yates/Paronto or Linebrink. C’mon people. Be serious.

Everyone keeps saying Betemit should play 2B. The only problem with that is he is a huge defensive liability. Can his bat outweigh that liability. I doubt it. Look at Soriano. He got moved and Betemit isn’t anywhere near as good as he is.

The trade would be a good trade and I bet JS is waiting to find another utility player before he pulls the trigger.

By ComeBackToReality

July 28, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

While it’s nice to think Betemit provides ample insurance incase Chipper gets hurt… but this year or next year, if Chipper isn’t playing and the bullpen isn’t solid, then BRAVES NO MAKE PLAYOFFS. Period. Betemit is decent, but not the #3 hitter on a play-off team. Chipper’s health and the bullpens contributions are the only things capable of making any noise in the NL wild card.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

Read somewhere that the Braves were targeting Tony Graffanino before he was traded recently. Perhaps he’s still on the radar as the utility guy JS is searching for.

By Lew

July 28, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

Shawn, the problem is that A. They don’t want to go and don’t have to and B. Their contract terms and age are exactly why it will be extremly difficult to trade them. Not to mention, Andruw is not old by any means, is still productive and will be a free agent after next season. I’m sure there will be a home town discount like last time. He told his agent to screw off and negotiated the contract himself. He will do it again. He is rich no matter which way you look at it and he’s happy here. All I’m saying is you can dream on, but it just isn’t going to happen no matter how hard you wish. Go with my other suggestion and I’ll bet you come closer by far to what really happens.

By eli

July 28, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

i’ve heard youliesky gourriel has defected from cuba…if this is true, we should give him whatever it takes to sign him up…he would be our next star infielder…he could play 2b,3b or ss…i would be perfectly fine with dealing betemit if we could get gourriel

By Bob, journalist

July 28, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this

Scoots, were it not for those stories read to me by my mother … Goldilocks and all the rest; the nightly radio shows … and the tales of Messers Joel C. Harris and Hugh Lofting … I’d have no education at all.

Now I had some nice folks try to teach me about Iambic Pentameter and stuff like that but it was a wasted effort ‘cause this Cracker could never understand meter having feet … yards have feet, meters don’t.

Similiar memories of my Father too … He wasn’t very athletic or real sports enthusiast but he was a good friend of Earl Mann … and it was Daddy with whom I first played catch … he took me to the Cracker games, starting when I was eight … and it was Daddy from whom I learned to keep score.

Your reference to appreciation for your Dad’s wisdom is about the same as mine and brings the famous AE Houseman poem to mind; one of my favorites … and while folks might forget the words … I’ll bet that the title and message remain crystal clear in the minds of just about everyone.

For those few who know not of which I speak, it has little to do with BlackJack but a lot to do with 21 … “When I was one and Twenty”.

HK, Name associations are amazing Paine and a painless dentist … Armstrong and one with strong arms … Dr. Poer gave me the same “novocaine” verbal gambit … but Mama insisted I take it … though I think he always gave me too little on purpose.

Grinch, you didn’t miss much by not reading my posts … but evidently you missed a fine performance by one of Joyce Kilmer’s kin … playing, of all things, a dentist who was born in Griffin and began practice in Atlanta … a Cracker fan of the first order.

Give me the skinny as you see it … who do you guys really think will be traded?

By Lew

July 28, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

Shawn-You mention not wanting to be a .500 team next year. You need to realise thast the reason we are this year is not Chipper, Andruw or Smoltz or their large salaries. The reason is not Langerhans in left or Giles leading off. It is the result of poor pitching, both starters and relievers. The fact that we had 11 pitchers on the DL and 3 for the season din’t help. First of all, moves have been and are being made that has dealt with this somewhat. With prospects received for Giles and Hudson plus $21.5 million as previously discussed, the pitching will be reborn and we can afford a leadoff hitter. Giving up on Smoltz, et al is total insanity. And totally unnecessary.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

Before anyone freaks out, I’m not suggesting Graffanino for Betemit, but in separate trades Graff’s numbers aren’t that far from Wilson’s. Similar OBP and RBI totals. Wilson’s average is a little higher and he’s hit more homers, but we’re looking for a utility guy to take Betemit’s place after a trade for relief help, right?

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

Chipper had a great 20 games but that just shows how low his numbers have been especially power which is why he is here

I don’t follow this arguement. Chipper has a 20 game strech the likes of which hasn’t been seen in baseball since 1920 and it proves how bad he is??? He hit over .500, and approached or tied some amazing stats that are very, very hard to accomplish. Top 3 in history to do what he’s done in the last 3 weeks. Chipper is a little ways away from being cannon fodder. He’s hitting .333 right now. He’ll finish the season with close to 30 homers, maybe even more than that. And we’re playing the Mets 9 more times. He feasts on the Mets.

By shawn

July 28, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this

we shall see of course but probably what happens is we try to get by spend 90 million or so on what will be an older .500 ball team as we settle for mediocre after we make the playoffs this year and get swept right out. By the way I hope your hometown discount is correct because Andruw is the best of that group. I only worry because so many players here talk about how they love Cox and would run through a wall for him then promptly run for the highest offer. Glavine, Furcal, Remlinger, Farnsworth, J.D. Drew, Sheffield, Franco, Maddux……and none of those guys were poor when they left.By the way for all that do hold hope, and believe it or not I am one, if Cox manges this team to the World Series this year he should be proclaimed Merlin and promptly knighted and given sainthood for he is a doer of miracles….

By Lew

July 28, 2006 06:23 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand the firesale and tear down to rebuild mentality here. We aren’t in a situation like the Marlins where we have to dump salary. I mean if I can think up these money saving directions, don’t you think JS can? We’re also not like the Phillies who have spent a ton of $$ and have underachieved for three or four years. We have an incredible team nucleus. Next year with Davies and Hampton coming back is the same as making a trade that costs nothing. We haven’t had them for all or most of this year. The same goes for Boyer and Foster. You shouldn’t make any more moves than are absolutely necessary and that doesn’t incluse team demolition.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Graff just get traded somewhere?

By gotigers72

July 28, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this

I agree with you about Marcus DOB. He WANTS to be here and he plays the game like a Tasmanian Devil. All out, all the time.

That said, I wouldn’t make the Betemit for Linebrink trade. Betemit is too valuable and Linebrink has been getting lit up lately [as has Hoffman], which makes me think something is up, maybe an injury. If they do decide to make that trade, I would insist on a thorough physical with emphasis on arm and shoulder. Now is no time to be taken on a trade.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

To whoever dismissed Chipper with a “he had a great 20 games”: You don’t know what you’re talking about. Read up.

Chipper has hit .359 with 13 homers, 45 RBIs and a .432 on-base percentage in 54 games since May 17. Get your facts straight or don’t post.

Nockahomer: I said in earlier reply to someone that Linebrink is under control for a $1.75 mill option in 2007. Very affordable, a million bucks less than Reitsma makes this season.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

Jornalist Bob, have no fear; I own “Toombstone” and have already seen it about 15 times. Doc is one of my heroes. You and Scoots seem to have had a much different parental experience than I; the elder Grinch would be far more likely to say something like “Why in the world would you be watching this crap when you could be reading Houseman instead?” However, I was not dissuaded from watching or playing both baseball and football; I even lied about it to get away with doing it (football). He didn’t want me to ruin my brain; guess he failed, ha ha! As for name associations, I used to have a boss named Raymond Dick. Yes, in answer to the next question. As for the trade, I think it’s going to be a multi-player one, whatever happens; JS won’t pull the trigger on a big deal like this without settling at least most of our needs and hedging his bets in case one component of the trade ultimately fails.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

Glavine, Furcal, Remlinger, Farnsworth, J.D. Drew, Sheffield, Franco, Maddux

None of that list matches Andruw. Glavine is a full on union man. Furcal was a full on money man and made it clear from the get go. Drew was a money man from the first time he entered the draft. Sheff loves himself too much and wanted to play for the Yankees, and never made a secret of it. Franco was offered a 2 year deal, which JS wisely didn’t counter offer (we’d never have seen LaRoche bloom had he done that) and Maddux, well… look at him. I love him, but he’s a Boras agent who had already reamed us in arbitration.

On top of that Andruw could only price the Braves out if he sought $25 a year for 7 years. No body is going to get that kind of coin these days. Soriano and Lee will set a standard bench mark for how much can be asked. Andruw will probably reach into the 17 million rang, maybe. And even that can be front or back loaded. With all the money will will have freed up by the time he becomes a free agent, we’ll be able to fit him.

As to the fire sale BS. I see the arguement… get rid of the expensive players, get all the young talent, then use the extra money to pull in some expensive players to play along with the young talent. Here’s a short cut… keep the expensive players and let our young talent play with them. We have one of the youngest teams in the Majors. How much younger do you wanna go? Who’s a free agent that we’d sign that’s better than Chipper, Andruw or Smoltz???

By shawn

July 28, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

Tennesse what I was saying is it took that stretch to raise him into the middle of the pack stats wise for third baseman in the National League. His avg. is great right now but it is his power and rbi’s that are hurting (and again have been for 3 years) He is about the sixth or seven best third baseman in the NL (maybe third in our on division) by those numbers not to mention his weak defense. I think we get blinded to the fact that just because they are Braves and had good years in the past doesn’t mean they or we as a team are still the cream of the crop anymore.I have followed the Braves for years first on radio, then in person, then TBS and now I pay for MLB extra innings just for a chance to see them in California and will continue to do so but if we are so blinded by our love of the team to see that it is in serious decline that you can’t trade a obscure minor leaguer to fix we will regret it later.By the way I hope they prove me wrong and sweep the Mets…..but I wouldn’t bet on it

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

gotigers, funny you say that about Betemit being too valuable, and your concern about Linebrink’s health. I took paluka’s lead and went to the SD newspaper site, and everyone there…players, mgr, fans (in their blog)… talk about how valuable Linebrink is to them. And he’s had a rough outing or two, but Wilson has been in a slump the last week or so too. (Also, he (linebrink) just took 2 days’ leave of absence for personal reasons and is supposed to be back in the ‘pen tonight)

I think the trade is good, but above all, as others have pointed out, it seems that WB just is not in the Braves’ longterm plans - for whatever reason.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

I think this trade is hingeing on an examination of Linebrink by our cheif toe-specialist.

By Bob, journalist

July 28, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this

Lew, I suppose it’s only natural for some folks to ponder possible steroid use by highly competitive players when they’re doing better than usual … as well as past use when they’re struggling.

Pardon any redundancy but “innuendo defaming” is inexcusable, regardless of intent, and it’s good that you and others have the arguments … and initative … to properly address such nonsense.

Now if you could get Marcus to modify his hitting stance and level out his swing plane.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

Chipper has hit .359 with 13 homers, 45 RBIs and a .432 on-base percentage in 54 games since May 17

Bizzam!

By Nikki

July 28, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

Wilson for anybody sounds bad.

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

Name association: former commander of the North Carolina Highway Patrol was Col. Speed. :-)

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

If I may I want to discuss Carl Crawford. I think he would be great to get. If I were JS I would offer Jurries and another good minor leaguer for him. If Jurries didn’t fly, maybe Thorman. The sad fact is I don’t think Tampa will trade him. Thats why his name has been quiet on the trade front. I do, however, think that for the right price he could be had. I suggested Jurries or Thorman because they desperately need a 1B.

DOB, what are the chances of getting Conine? Jayson Stark said he thought if Conine were to be traded that the Braves would be one of his destinations. And, am I wrong in thinking a huge trade is on the horizon as the trade deadline nears?

By shawn

July 28, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Chipper has hit .359 with 13 homers, 45 RBIs and a .432 on-base percentage in 54 games since May 17

but what DOB didn’t mention is we played 101 games not 54. My point was he got hot for a time period. What did he have in the other 47 games, of which some he missed with injuries…which is part of my point….he had 2 homers and 14 rbi’s…..right now six 3b in the NL have more RBI’s. Guys I am not saying Chipper is a bum because he is not….what I am saying is due to age, salary, declining production , and value of return that on a mediocre team , which is what we have become, he is a luxury that would bring us more benefit via trade.Again I have no problem debating the pros and cons of trading these guys because there are both good and bad to each trade but as of yet no one seems to have a reason why we think winning the wild card is so beneficaial….in the LONG run. Convince me that adding some players now….who would they be….would vault us into a real chance at a World Series gane….not even WS win just playing in it and I will change my mind.

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

Trade news

By Lew

July 28, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

Amen and Selah both Journalist Bob and Tennessee Paul. Shawn, do you realise that Chipper’s 45 RBI since the middle of May equals a 120 RBI per season pace? Do you realise that Chipper’s 13 HR in that same period works out to a 38 per season pace. In what universe do you live that this is a sub par performance. Did you see that injury in SF the first week of the season? I thought for sure he tore ligaments in both his ankle and his knee. Was that from growing old? Hell, no. It was because the Giants infield was in lousy shape. Dude you really need a reality check.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

C.L., also Ryan Longwell, kicker for the Packers.

By This gets old

July 28, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

One word, yes or no..would Linebrink bring a WS title this year and if it doesn’t this season and next season is a bust for him, as it is for so many RP’s is it worth it to you to let WB go?

Yes or No?

By Bob, journalist

July 28, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

Grinch, Daddy knew the poem but I doubt that my he knew Housman from Adam Larouch’s dad … and his words would certainly have been different, but I had to chuckle loudly when reading your post … for that was the type of reaction he often had when I was caught doing something that he thought frivolous … there was a time and place for everything … and he thought that most of the time was for being serious. Of course he was always serious about listening to country music, watching Maverick and eating Mama’s cooking.

I hope you’re right about the trade … makes sense.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

What’s the trade news. I went to the site and they talked about the Brewer deal that was made earlier today.

As for Chipper. Yes, hes been hurt but the guy is still a major producer. The fact is he probably came back from the DL too soon earlier in the year. You could tell something was bothering him. The fact is if we don’t have Betemit we could still make the playoffs. If we don’t have Chipper for the rest of the year, when’s spring training start?

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

Just barely heard the radio report that Salty had a big day for the RBraves yesterday - 2 HR, 6 rbi. he’s been warming up with the bat in July, hitting in the .280s with a few HR. That’s nothing but good news.

By Lew

July 28, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Shawn, I guess that’s why they play a 162 game schedule, instead of calling it quits in April. You could make the same comparisons with almost any MLB player if you isolate a particular part of a season. Chipper is not a .540 hitter anymore than he is a .215 hitter. That’s why they are called batting AVERAGES. The man has the highest career average of any switch hitter in baseball history. He has a .300 career average even with injuries and subpar resulting seasons. There are only 2 other switch hitters in ML history with more career HR and they are Mickey Mantle and Eddie Murray, both Hall of Famers. You are seriously in need of psychiatric counseling if you don’t think this adds up to superstar status. I’m not even sure if your brick wall mentality will even allow you to see this, but there it is.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

I forgot about that injury, Lew. I remember thinking at the time that either the Giants or the umpires union ought to have financially compensated us for having to play on that crap and effectively screwing up a half-season for Chipper.

By DonCoburleone

July 28, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

Sounds good DOB, I wouldn’t mind this trade. I see alot of the Padres living here in SoCal and Linebrink is praised by all the Padre announcers/beat writers. Plus we have him at least through next season… PULL THE TRIGGER JS!!!

By shawn

July 28, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

yes Lew and if a player hits four home runs in a game that puts him on pace for 648 in a year…that is a numbers game my friend and Chipper won’t reach 30 homers or 100 rbi’s so projections mean crap……again will we make the WS with him this year….or next even…..honestly…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

This Gets Old, we are not talking about some flash in the pan reliever. We are talking about a guy who is doing this successfully for the fifth straight year. Asking would it be worth if for Betemit is like asking if the Yankees would offer Rivera for a couple of prospects and the Braves said no because of fear he may all of a sudden get old and be ineffective. You have to take risks.

Let me ask you this question. What would be easier to replace? A utility player who can hit for some power and average or a shutdown late inning reliever.

By shawn

July 28, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

great career is correct but not great future which is where my focus is not the past

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

No one player can guarantee a WS title. It’s team effort. The question should be, would the addition of Linebrink improve the possibility of winning a WS title. The answer is yes. Our bullpen is the weakest link on the team.

As to what happens next year… Would holding on to Betemit, and having him turn out to be a bust next year be worth it? Position players have offseason as well (see Nomar, Giles, Lowell, etc.)

By Lew

July 28, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this

I give up. This is a case of a brick wall missing a mortar joint. You can explain to the brick wall that it is missing the mortar, but it is unlikely the wall will repair itself even if it understands you. I think there is just a lack of understanding here. Let’s just say this about the situation. Shawn you are seriously wrong.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

Funny, Bob; my mom was really into Maverick, The Rockford Files, anything with James Garner. Yeah, JS is under such a microscope now with anything he does (storied franchise, limited salary space) that I don’t think he’ll do anything rash. Even if we do wind up slightly with the short end of this trade, it will likely be balanced by that fantastic fleecing of the Indians that just occured. He’s no fool.

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

If you don’t want to trade for Linebrink, you don’t want to trade for a setup man. He’s been consistent, is suited to the role, is still young, and is affordable. If you don’t want to trade Betemit for a setup man, fine… but if you do, Linebrink is as solid a choice as you could find.

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this

Robert, some of those names have been bandied about by some bloggers in their ruminating about trade possibilities. It just may possibly be that some folk were not aware of the deal. Sorry if that irritated you. :-)

By Bob, journalist

July 28, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this

I went to school with a Dorothy Crook whose father was on the Vice Squad.

By Robert

July 28, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this

“One word, yes or no..would Linebrink bring a WS title this year and if it doesn’t this season and next season is a bust for him, as it is for so many RP’s is it worth it to you to let WB go?”

You forget that Bobby Cox is the manager.

The Braves are therefore mathematically eliminated from winning the World Series

By Rip

July 28, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

Please, CONINE?????? Not another Brian Jordon? Bobby has wanted him for years, but what is it with 40 year old veterans does BC love. Stark on ESPN said “Conine was going down hill”. Please say no, or hell no.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this

but not great future

The future for Chipper is the Hall of Fame. I guess that isn’t what it used to be.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, no irritation. I just thought there was some breaking news. I’ve been trying to find any new news all day. I feel like a crack addict wondering the streets for a fix.

As for this proposed trade and this lovefest with Betemit. Again, I will say that I love the guy too and would prefer not to lose him. However, we are 5 games under .500 with him playing all year (yes, he hasn’t had the playing time he should’ve. Would this team be 5 games under .500 if we had Wickman and Linebrink all year or even just Linebrink? 20 for 40 in save opportunities.

By Robert

July 28, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

The ONLY bad thing to say about Linebrink is that he has clearly shown he can not close (2 for 18 in save opportunities).

It would be nice to be able to get some insurance against a Wickman problem in making a trade.

On the other hand - bottom line is that Betemit is nothing special. He might be a half a level above a Graffanino or a DeRosa, but players like him are, if not a dime a dozen, still common

Linebrink is a much rarer commodity. If this deal is offered, the Braves must take it and run

The deal wont be offered is my guess

All of which doesnt address the ongoing problem, which is that Eeyore is stil managing the team

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

Conine is going down hill? Well, of cousre he is. He’s freakin 40 years old. That’s not the point. We are not wanting him to play everyday; but simply be a utility player. He has been terrific for the O’s this year. He is no Brian Jordan. Compare their stats and tell me they are the same player this year.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this

Robert, I couldn’t have said it better. Players like Betemit are a dime a dozen compared to quality shutdown relievers. Don’t believe that. The Yankees are calling Scott Proctor…Scott flippin Proctor untouchable. Why? Because he has shown enough ability to be a shutdown reliever and those are hard to come by even if this is nothing but a fluke year.

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this

Robert(Jutice is the best), I sure understand that! :-)) I think all of us are very anxious to see what will happen to the team, and thereby, us! I can’t wait to see these 3 games vs the Mets, but at the same time, I wish it was Monday already! Then it would be done! I sure don’t want to be disappointed on the deal thing.

By Rip

July 28, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Robert the answer is NO. Keep Wilson B. and trade someone else for Linebrink. Trade Hudson, we need another starter. Crawfords on yes.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

I don’t think we will be disappointed. I can’t explain it, but I just have this feeling that something big is coming down. It is like the feeling I had back during the 10 game losing streak. I had a feeling then the Braves were going to go a run. I have that same kind of gut feeling now. I guess all I can say is I hope I’m right.

By Robert

July 28, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

The Hall of Fame certainly isnt what it used to be

As a hitter, Chipper clearly belongs - he has been a consistant high level producer for an extnded period of time

Still,I can understand to some extent where you are coming from Tennessee Paul

About the only guy I can think of who had worse peripheral credentials for the Hall of Fame would be Dick Allen.

Chipper has a consiatnt record of poor fundamentals in the field and on the basepaths, mediocre defense, playoff underachievment, selfish pursuit of personal statistical goals, near zero team leadership, and an obnoxiously arrogant attitude to boot

Being an a*****e doesnt exclude one from the HOF

Neither does being a jackass, according to the Bobby Cox contingent

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 07:30 PM | Link to this

Who else are we going to trade for Linebrink. All of you who keep saying trade Giles to the Padres have no clue what you are talking about. Why would the Padres trade for Betemit. They have a second baseman.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

Is it just me or does this feel like the playoffs.

By Bob, journalist

July 28, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

Me thinks we’ll know something before the wee hours … maybe just the outcome of the game, maybe more … but something. If it weren’t for the swatters and sprays, it’d be fun to be a fly on the wall … just for a while, during trading days.

Okay, whatever it is … let’s do it!

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this

Linebrink missed 2 games this week for “personal reasons” according to the ESPN player page for him.

By #1 Mets Fan

July 28, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this

hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you guys are going to get your a*s kicked

By Robert

July 28, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this

The Pads are weak at 3rd base -

Offer them Betemit and Salty (and Cox) for Linebrink and a warm body (they will offer Cox back if they are smart)

How about bolstering the staff and taking a shot at bringing Maddux back - that wouldnt cost much in the way of talent I bet

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this

He missed Wednesday’s and Thursday’s games. We’ll see if he plays tonight…WTF is going on? Don’t dig too deep a hole in the 1st inning!

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

The deal will involve more than two players; Robert, I share the same feeling. However, it is now time for the Mets. Let’s crank it up! Where’s Max?

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this

Robert, what are you talking about (with all due respect). To my view, Chipper’s numbers are the thing that would possibly keep him out of the HOF; he’s marginal there, but if he reaches 400 HR should be a shoo-in. Especially as a switch-hitter. Should be in anyway, in my opinion.

But the character/fielding stuff?

Over his career, he’s better than average at 3B; a .954 fp versus .951 league average (per baseball-reference.com).

As to pursuit of personal goals, he gave up a LOT of prestige by going from 3B to LF. There’s a thousand LF who can hit 35 HR and drive in 100, but not that many 3B’s. He almost surely lost at least one, probably 2, allstar appearances because of that.

He deferred his contract to help the team sign a closer this off-season (no, he didn’t “cut his pay” but he did defer money, which has value).

I’m not sure about the “leadership” stuff, but have never heard anything but praise for him from his teammates and manager. I’d love to hear more about your comparison of CJ to Dick Allen!

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 07:43 PM | Link to this

Warm up the bus Bravos. This game is over already

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 07:43 PM | Link to this

If a deal where to go down tonight, the player would have to be rushed to Atlanta with the 1:00 start tomorrow.

By Robert

July 28, 2006 07:43 PM | Link to this

Chipper has a career adjusted OPS of 141 (thru 2005).

Go to baseball-reference.com

Anything above a 130 is a serious candidate and anything 140 is d^&m near a lock

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 07:43 PM | Link to this

Warm up the bus Bravos. This game is over already

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 07:45 PM | Link to this

What’s more irritating: post 2004 Red Sox fans or 2006 Mets fans?

By justin

July 28, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this

i believe thats ballgame

By SUPERGRASS

July 28, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this

its still early “mikey”

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this

HoRam great pitcher huh? Who was the dummy here who said he wouldnt trade him straight up for anyone in baseball?

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this

HoRam great pitcher huh? Who was the dummy here who said he wouldnt trade him straight up for anyone in baseball?

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this

People, it’s the 1st inning! Enough with the defeatist attitude. What are you guys, French?

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

Theres still time to throw in that towel…no one will think any less of you guys if you did it now

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

You know if the Braves miss the playoffs I will live. But, you know what will still make this season a success? The fact that the Mets will not win a WS. Enjoy the ride because when October comes and pitching is what wins that is what will cause you to lose. There is not one….ONE American League contender that the Mets can beat.

By SUPERGRASS

July 28, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

2006 mets fans r way more obnoxious—- at least post 04 redsox fans had something tangible to boast about

By Calvin

July 28, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this

lol…way to go Andruw.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this

Mikey, what was that about throw in the towel. I’ll throw a towel. To your boy, Pedro. WS title, you say? I think not.

By SUPERGRASS

July 28, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

thank god andruw didnt strike out, like yesterday when he had runners in scorers position in the bot of the 1st

By #1Mets fan

July 28, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

what the f***

By brad

July 28, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

the braves need bullpen help but starting to wonder if they need a starter!!

By brad

July 28, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

the braves need bullpen help but starting to wonder if they need a starter!!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this

Oh, noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Is that another run that just scored. Why is your injured #1 starter even on the mound? Oh,yeah, because even with a big lead the Mets are scared to death of the Braves!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this

I hate to be annoying, but is that the “bust” Sports Illustraded was talking about that just got a clutch hit off of the Mets “ace”?

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this

Yeah, this game is over. The Braves have no chance against Pedro.

By Calvin

July 28, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this

good first inning for the Braves.

By SUPERGRASS

July 28, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this

hopefullu horam can settle down with a lead

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this

Who’s your daddy, Mets fans? Hee-hee!

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

The typical 2006 Mets fans from outside of the tri-state area were Angels fans after game 6 in 2002, Marlins fans in after game 5 in 2003, and Red Sox fans after the 2004 ALCS was tied 3-3. They wanted to cheer for the Astros last year, but after 2 White Sox wins, they all bought jerseys. Anyone see a trend here?

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

This is gonna be a damn shootout! Looks like the Bad Horacio (aka F-ellatio Ramirez) showed up.

By SUPERGRASS

July 28, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

walk wright please

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

Yeah, well Horatio’s been off for a month unlike Pedro, so he has an excuse…oops. Man, straight numbers aside, has there EVER been a more uninspiring and confidence-shattering pitching staff (with the exception of Smoltz) than this one? You hand a 4 run lead in the first to Maddux, even now, and it’s game over. Horatio reminds me of Sosa last year, only not getting away with as much. There is a lot of talent on this pitching staff, starters and bullpen, but almost all of them seem cowardly.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

It’s like they’re waiting for someone to tell them what to do. Thank god for our offense, which is Hyde to their Jekyll. Imagine if we had an extra starter or two with balls? We’d be positively heroic!

By JasonInMaine

July 28, 2006 08:25 PM | Link to this

Man, HoRam is pitching bad at a very, very, very bad time. Sorry, but front line starter I think not.

Regards,

Jason

By SUPERGRASS

July 28, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

to the grinch: dont u think their attitude is due to a lack of coaching up- mcdowell isnt the right pitching coach for the staff, and honestly maybe bobby isnt either….. maybe a guy like mazzone,sweet lou or ozzie can get something out of them

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

HoRam and Sosa are very consistent in video games, but that’s about it.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this

Forget bullpen help. Let’s get a starter.

By sam

July 28, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

Ramirez is a # 4 starter, James is a #5 now with potential to be a # 1 or 2 later. Smoltz is a #1 and there are no # 2 or 3 starters on the braves staff

By krath

July 28, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Joe Simpson made a good point on the TV broadcast. He said in effect people could talk bullpen all they wanted but if the Braves didn’t get some starting pitching help they would never make the playoffs. His reasoning was that Thompson was constantly hurt. Davies is still a big question mark and that other than Smoltz, the rest of the starters had been inconsistant at best.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 28, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

fekix pie. the braves should trade for felix pie. when felix pie arrives the braves will be complete - well, maybe a pitcher or two before they are complete. now, absorbine jr. - what an elixir! journalist has won the battle with the blue worms with tactical application of cod liver oil and absorbine jr. smells bad in the hosta bed - but no more worms (no more hostas, either). now, who will score last? home game, right? now, is dob, still sore about losing diane lane to journalist jimmy smith?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

I’m starting to think that a starter is much more needed than a reliever. I wonder what the Royals would want for Mark Redman or the Nationals for Tony Armas?

By JasonInMaine

July 28, 2006 08:45 PM | Link to this

Man, when your pitching sux and you need runs…PLAY FUNDAMENTAL BASEBALL. Leadoff double and that’s where he stays. It appears Pedro is settling down a bit…not good.

This is depressing. Yes, I know it is early, blah, blah, blah. 4 runs in the first off of Pedro should be enough to put the pressure on the Mets not us. If they lose two out of three this weekend, I wouldn’t worry about trying to make a trade for Linebrink.

Man, I really thought Horacio may step up and pitch like the pitcher some here think that he is. But, I think we are seeing the true Horacio.

Regards,

Jason

Regards,

Jason

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

Problem with dealing with KC is that Dayton Moore knows what we have and wouldn’t likely bend over for the JS shaft.

By JasonInMaine

July 28, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this

That should be it for Horacio…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

We need to win 2 of 3. If we lose tonight, that will be somewhat tough. We are about to find out what Chad Paronto is about. This is like a save situation. They have to get out of this inning without allowing a run.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

Some of our “starters” might be better suited for the bullpen. Effective for an inning or two. Perfect for relief work.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 28, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

why felix pie? pie makes everyone happy. can a player named, “pie” miss? journalist jimmy smith (aka letwan) thinks not.

little known pie fact: the first known pie recipe came from the romans and was for a rye-crusted goat cheese and honey pie. pies today are much tastier.

still, even with a pie in the oven the braves need more pitching. oh, the humanity of not being able to hold a lead for even an inning!

paronto is fearsome, right? hope the sinker is sinking tonight.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

Pie’s father was a pitcher with a career 3.14 ERA.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

Nice job, Chad.

Now its time for Roachy and Langerhans to get another rally started. Pedro isn’t right and may be right for the picking.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 28, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

well, the sinker is working fine tonight. paronto is solid. js must trade for more big pitchers. worry about the pants later.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

Totally unrealistic Levi’s commercial. Girl lounging on the coach in tiny, blue panties late at night, but wearing a bra.

By krath

July 28, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this

I just hope we’re not going to wake up to what MAY be the reality that the Braves just need too many pieces to actually win the wild card. Bullpen, ineffective starters, depending on Shiell to actually win a big league game. Half a dozen starters on the DL. Chipper just waiting for the next injury. Betemit not being there to back him up when he gets hurt again.

I hope I’m wrong. In fact, I would LOVE to be wrong. But ya have to consider this stuff.

Wouldn’t it be ironic if we get this setup guy and end up with a decent bullpen only to have our starters spot everyone 5 runs before the Braves get to bat?

By Brian

July 28, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this

jj smith, thought you were on vacation. do you not have a “c” journalist - a la guy cartwright - to fill in for you. baby seal perahps?

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

Supergrass, you may be on to something. McDowell doesn’t look like he’d really chew anyone’s a$$. Jimmy, goat cheese doesn’t sound all that good in a pie, but man, does it make for a good pizza! Plus, before the game I spent an hour and a half watering all my plants and vegetables (including hostas) and now there is a monster rain cloud coming through. Oh, the humanity, indeed! BTW, if you and Diane break up, could you do a fellow writer a solid and hook us up? I’ve had a crush on her ever since “The Outsiders.”

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this

Can someone..anyone tell me why Pete Orr is taking up space on the bench. Everytime he comes to bat he strikes out. Not one hitter tonight even looked close to striking out and this poser comes up and is gone as soon as he came. This is so frustrating. And you people are telling me you would rather see Orr on the bench than Todd Walker or Jeff Conine.

Yeah…Yeah…. I know. He’s a hustler. Well, its hard to hustle when you whiff at three pitches and walk back to the dugout. I guess he HUSTLES back to the dugout.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 09:06 PM | Link to this

GHF, you’re right. She’d be much more realistic looking in one of my 2X tees, or preferably nothing.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this

You know things are not right when the bullpen can come in and set these guys down like it was nothing when Horacio acted like it was a mortal sin to throw a strike.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 28, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

the downside to getting felix pie is that jon miller and joe morgan will call pie, “felix pee-ay”. who needs a pee-ay? would jon miller order a pee-ay for dessert? enough of this pronunciation mess. journalist grew up listening to dizzy dean and peewee reese. they could pronounce nothing! when player peewee was hurt the trainer would be sent in to pick up the reese’s pieces. ugh, journalist is not well. missing baby seal. journalist sat by the pool without baby seal today and not one single beautiful girl approached journalist. this is more like dob than jimmy smith. baby seal is a babe magnet. carolina lady, just a loan, right?

now, if the braves take the lead again who will protect it? big man paronto is only good for a partial inning?

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

Y’all, I’m in Palmetto (about 25-30 miles SW of the park), and the storm blowing through here and heading NE is fearsome. We’d better score quickly. In fact, I’m fixin’ to shut the computer off. Go Braves!

By sam

July 28, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

McDowell is in over his head. This is a batch of head cases that need an experienced pitching coach to help them. There are too many “has beens” and “never wases” on this staff. Scuerholtz has to be held accountable for such a mediocre pitching staff!!

By Bob, journalist

July 28, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

Optimist Glass, I think I might agree with “Some of our “starters” might be better suited for the bullpen” but “effective for an inning or two” didn’t seem to apply tonight … he wasn’t right last time out, more like Jorge of 2005.

By Carroll

July 28, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

Jimmy Simth: ACtually, for Miller “pie” would prolly be more like: pwah-yee-eh (kinda like the pronunciation of actor Sidney portier’s last name, but without the “t” sound in the middle).

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

That didn’t look good. Chipper was obviously hurting. Would be surprised if he stays in the game.

By Beachcomber

July 28, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this

Rameriz really stunk up the joint tonight - but that is part of the package with younger pitchers - Cy Young one time cyclops the next. The three lousy at bats by Andruw, McCann and Frenchy following Chipper’s double didn’t help either. Cox’s teams still don’t practice situational hitting - never have.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

I think its hard to say French’s at bat was lousy. He hit the ball on the head. It just was right at somebody. Thats called baseball.

It looks like the only way for Betemit to be traded is a deal for a Walker or Conine to already be in place. Chipper looked like he was in a lot of pain.

By Carroll

July 28, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

My GAWD Chipper is such a poosy! Cowboy up, you worthless primadonna! You make Bob Horner, JD Drew and Chris Miller look durable!

By journalist jimmy smith

July 28, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

brian, good questions … the vacation has not yet begun. soon. guy curtright may pick up the slack for jimmy smith when journalist leaves. it has not been decided. curtright knows little about cheese - he is partial to jellies from around the world. jelly has been eaten since ancient egyptian times.

uh, oh, chipper is in agony in the dugout. when betemit is gone must we look forward to pete orr at third? oh, the humanity if chipper is to be lost for a prolonged time. is he crying in the dugout? must hurt a lot.

absorbine jr is recommended for such an injury.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

I wonder what the Pirates would want for Joe Randa?

By Skydawg

July 28, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this

Well just like I stated in another blog yesterday about needing WB for insurance in case Chipper went down. Well not the answer is definitely HELL NO!! We need WB.

By baby seal

July 28, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this

baby seal would like to tell parent jimmy smith about his day……met many new good friends….there is a very large pond…real pond, not cement pond…baby seal enjoyed playing in the water and catching fish…..many interesting animals welcomed baby seal which made baby seal very happy….met very strange animal who was startled by appearance of baby seal….jimmy smith, what is ‘skunk’?….carolina lady made baby seal take many, many baths in pond….was not allowed in house until smell better….baby seal loves carolina lady, but misses jimmy smith…..will be home soon maybe…..

By Skydawg

July 28, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this

Well just like I stated in another blog yesterday about needing WB for insurance in case Chipper went down. Well now the answer is definitely HELL NO!! We need WB. See the problem is not only our relief pitching, our starting pitching blows as well except for Smoltz. So we need to simply score more runs than the other team. The days of the Braves only needing 2-3 runs a game to win are over. Keep WB for his bat and his glove. Another relief pitcher isn’t gonna do squat.

By Brian

July 28, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this

i fear this may kill the talk of betemit for linebrink.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this

How many of you “tough” guys have ever had a oblique muscle strain or an abdomen muscle strain? It hurts. Believe me! Everytime you take a breath it hurts. If most of you “just cowboy up” guys had this injury right now you wouldn’t be able to go to work for two weeks and be filing workman’s comp.

By Brian

July 28, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

can’t pitch that guy away. if you stay inside you can tie him up and he doesn’t get his arms extended. braves refuse to learn.

By Carroll

July 28, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

Fukc off smartass! It’s always something with that piece of shti! And yes, I have had abdominal and side pains in the past, and guess what…I STILL went to work every freakin day!

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

Those of you who are adamantly opposed to trading Betemit, don’t start sucking each others dicks yet. Betemit was our most tradeable commodity for relief help.

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

Hey where is HoRam? Oh I get it early showers

By Beachcomber

July 28, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

Justice is Best - Great comment on an oblique - you have to have been there! Sorry, I was a little tough on Frenchy’s at bat, just get tired of swing at all costs at the first pitch.

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

Larry Jones isnt hurt, he just didnt want to be on the field for this loss that is coming the Bravos was. How many games back will that be after tonite?

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

I’m kinda losing respect for some of y’all……

By Brian

July 28, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

taking a bit of a dark turn here, huh?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

Hey, Carroll lay off the “juice” and watch your mouth! Just because you got p***s envy or whatever it is about Chipper don’t take your crap out on me, fool! With the way he is treated if I were Chipper I would get the hell out of here and then when that second best batting avg. in the league bat is gone laugh my a** off when I hear people say, “remember when we had Chipper”. Chipper is a gamer and you freakin know it. In reality he had no buisness playing Wednesday and shouldn’t have been in the lineup tonight. There’s a whole lot of guys that would have said put ‘em on the Dl.

Get a life, jobber!

By Brian

July 28, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

my last post was directed to you carolina senorita

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

Hey ladies who is your daddy now?

By Lew

July 28, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

Krath-You may be right. We may have too many holes in the staff to plug the leaks. Still, I’d hate to give up quite yet. Did anyone actually see Dick(ne Richie) Allen play. I was a kid in Philly when he came up in 64. I still to this day never saw another human hit a ball as hard as he did on a regular basis. He was a beast. He used a 40 ounce bat which most players (Julio excepted) couldn’t even swing today. Maybe his numbers aren’t that great when compared to todays, but you have to remember he played at Connie Mack Stadium for years. It has a 448 foot center field wall. At the time Forbes Field in Pittsburgh had a center filed wall even further from home. There is no comparison to these little teeny weeny parks these day. If Allen had played in the Phillies current park or in that joke in Cincinnati, he would have beaten out Hank in a fifteen year career if not sooner. He could flat out mash a baseball.

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

Larry is a little girl asking out of the game like that. Why dont you try and get some real men on your team

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Hey, Brian! Yeah, some forget they’re on a public forum and the language gets ugly and inappropriate. Hopefully a gentle reminder will help. :-)) Sure hope we can pull off a win here, but I dunno….. More than that, I sure wish we had some pitching! :-)))

By journalist jimmy smith

July 28, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

maybe? what is this maybe? carolina lady please explain chipper’s injury to baby seal. it appears chipper has injured a flipper. he was suffering mightily in the dugout. wilson bait-a-meat has entered the game. one “p” player has already come in to pinch hit. now batting .202. oh, the humanity! the mets are not playing so well … will there be heroics before the night is over? will willie randolph out-manage the skipper? need a three run homerun.

By Brian

July 28, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

and an aside. i don’t love raymond all that much.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this

This blog is getting a bit ugly…it’s only a game, after all. An important one, but not important enough to resort to such language during prime-time. Later tonight, when all the women and children have gone to bed, by all means. But for the time being, c’mon, y’all…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this

Well, the bullpen is in another save situation. Tyler Yates, you’re on! Can you do what Paronto did? We need to hold ‘em with the top of the lineup coming up in the 8th and not having to face Billy Wagner.

By #1Mets fan

July 28, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this

gameover braves fan

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

The only thing ugly tonight is this putrid effort put forward by the bravos

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this

Carroll, I apologize for my post. I actually am on here quite a bit and like you. I know you hate Chipper and Chipper is my favorite player. I proudly admit that. We will never agree. I responded negatively. I’m a bit upset at the way this game is going.

It is like a bad movie. Now, its not the bullpen blowing games but the starters. I think Horacio blowing the lead took all the air out of this offense. Although, some balls have been hit quite hard. Maybe they will start to follow.

By Lew

July 28, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

Now Now my children.Play nice. Can’t we just all get along? Carroll, you’re usually a lot more reasonable than this. Did we miss our smoked potatoes today?

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

Larry wanted no part of this team and left the rest of those bums out there to continue to get pounded. Who is your daddy now?

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

Mets fans (all two of you), couldn’t you take a cue from us and celebrate with your own fans on your own blog and leave us to our own city and team? I bet there isn’t a single person on this blog who has ever visited a Mets blog…what would be the point? There’s still plenty of season left, and even if we conceed this year you won’t have a chance the next. Find a different hobby. This one won’t last you long.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the vulgarity earlier. Frustrated and have been couped up inside with my 3 small kids while my wife galavants with her mother.

By JasonInMaine

July 28, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

This is going to be a another tough loss. Like I have been saying, the success on the road trip is all for naught if we can’t win at home. Pedro sucked and let up 4 runs in the first and we still lose. Not a good sign folks.

Regards,

Jason

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

No excuse, but the only one I’ve got.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

Hope Chipper’s injury doesn’t torpedo any dealine deals. I can’t stomach another Tom Martin acquisition.

By Lew

July 28, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

Glass, Speaking as a man who has been married 31 years, if your mother in law is not in the house, you got the best of that bargain. Kids or no kids. To certain people who have been ignored all day and still hung around like dirty laundry-I know who my father is-you seem to be the one with the identity crisis. Go smoke some potatoes and get a grip.

By JasonInMaine

July 28, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

And we will now be behind the freakin Marlins again…disgraceful.

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

Pedro sucked? He had one bad inning then shut your team down. What sucks is being under 500 and more than 12 games out of first. Remind you of anyone? Great at bat there by andrew by the way

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

Good point, Lew…Andruw (OHN-druw for Fox sports fans) looked awful.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 28, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

the team needs runners on base. everyone is trying to hit a homerun. how about andruw’s at-bat? this is not pretty.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this

Good thing I have some mighty excellent potatoes left behind by Tuesday night’s female visitor…harsh loss, yes; but now I can REALLY enjoy stuff on TV tonight that would have otherwise only been marginally entertaining…

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this

Tired of the injury bug? If MLB wants attendance and TV ratings, abandon drug-testing altogether. Let the players load-up on chemicals!

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

Problem is, five years from now all the “greats” will retire at 30 due to nagging, inexplicable injuries

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

Brian, :-)))

Jimmy Smith, your little guy eats a lot of fish, doesn’t he?? Guess he told you about the unfortunate encounter with the skunk…..oh, boy…..Though he tries to hide it, I can tell he’s awfully homesick. I think I need to take him to the airport tomorrow and send him back to you. I’ll sure miss him, though. How wonderfully kind of you to send him to help. I’m in your debt, kind sir! :-))

By Lew

July 28, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

Grinch-Apparently you are in good shape to mellow your harsh, anyway. Does everyone, other than the dirty laundry, realize that this will be 3-5 in our last 8 games? Not good. I’m sure glad my oblique doesn’t hurt. Chipper won’t be back for at least a week if not longer. I think any deal for Bate A Meat is probably off.

By JasonInMaine

July 28, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

Mikey,

What would suck is being such a loser that you go to other team’s blogs to show your immaturity level to simply try and annoy someone. I know it is hard rooting for a team that consistently is in the top 4 in payroll but that can never win. I know it would be frustrating for me if my team went a decade and a half without sniffing a pennant. It must be painful. It must drive losers to such depths that they go to a site dedicated to the team that has been the constant thorn in the Mets side. Listen, I can sympathize amd imagine what it must be like rooting for such a disgraceful organization that consisently loses. The Braves were like that 15 years ago. So, it has been a while, but we kind of understand what it is like to associate with a losing organization and a team that consistently sucks.

Regards,

Jason

By Lew

July 28, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

Ma’am-The best skunk remedy is one pint of peroxide, a 1/4 cup of baking soda and a tablespoon of Dawn dishwashing liquid in a gallon of water. Rinse with a cup of bleach in a gallon of water and then hose the seal down. Works like a charm.

By Brian

July 28, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this

joe simpson just pointed out - tongue in cheek - that smoltz is as good a pinch hitter as pratt. i think that is true. why are we carrying dead weight such as orr and pratt on the 25 man roster? prado and pena? makes no sense. neither of these guys make sense now in the short term, and neither make sense long term either. it’s asinine. and Carolina Lady (tar heel? dookie? demon deacon?) this blog really needed to lighten up, so who better than everybody (except me) loves raymond. lew-dead on on the mother-in-law. plus, she might recognize the smell of smoked potatoes!

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this

The Mets would be all over the no drug-testing policy. The last time they won the Series, that whole team save Gary Carter and Keith Hernandez was whacked on coke, speed, and booze.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this

The Braves need to show their mettle right now. Win or lose this game they need to show Wagner and the Mets they won’t just lie down. I will go on record right now (and I’m hope I’m wrong) by saying if they go 1-2-3 it will be a sweep.

But, you know what maybe that would not be so bad. Then, they can concentrate on the wild card. They are still worried about the division.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

Yeah, this loss sucks, but I’ve got 2 words for ya: “August schedule.”

By journalist jimmy smith

July 28, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

carolina lady, baby seal must not fly! perhaps baby seal can catch his own fish for a time and remain useful to you until jimmy smith can send for baby seal. you see, baby seal would not get past the screeners at the airport. facial hair, big eyes, sealskin, flippers, toes pointed backwards … such characteristics do not fit the profile of the traveling public. this is why dan kolb cannot fly. permit baby seal to stay for a few more days until arrangements can be made (wink, wink - sending carroll to pick baby seal up soon). driving a tractor yet?

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

July 28, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

This Sucks. I can’t watch anymore.

By MIKEY

July 28, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

Goodnight losers…see you tommorow for your second beating…on national TV no less

By jonathan

July 28, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

This is the worst move in Braves history. You have no clue!

By krath

July 28, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this

Lew….Dick Allen hit the hardest ball I ever saw hit (in person) at Fulton County when I was a kid.

He hit a line drive that I think maybe it was Felix Milan playing second base almost leaped to try and grab. The ball hit off the right center field fence on the fly! It was like 10 feet high as soon as it left the bat and never got any higher…still hit off the fence.

What I said in an earlier post about Chipper just waiting for the next injury seems to be a reality before the ink was dry on my post. Actually it wasn’t the next injury, it was obvious that he hadn’t recovered enough to be in the lineup. Now he may really have messed it up.

I don’t blame Chipper. He’s getting some age on him and he’s just breaking down. he doesn’t want to be hurt, his body is just breaking down. It’s kind of like Mark Pryor with the Cubs. He’s still a great pitcher but you can’t depend on him to be with you all season. This is going to be Chipper’s story until he retires, you can bank on it. Shame…..still a great player when he’s healthy.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

This run is over. I mean the whole damn thing. This team has no heart. They just gave up and now so am I. I am so frustrated. There is no need for trades or anythng else. I just don’t understand this team. I just don’t get. I’m sick of watching this crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

Mikey would not be a Mets fans if they were sub .500. Fairweather fans.

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

July 28, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

It ended how I knew it would. With Larouche’s bat on his shoulder watching a called 3rd strike. You could almost script it.

21 of the last 22 Braves sat down. They can’t manufacture a run to save their lives.

By Lew

July 28, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

Yes, mothers-in-law do have sharp noses. One can only blame the use of so much air freshener on gas for so long.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

Lew, I hate to ask where you learned how to hose the skunk smell off a baby seal…however, you’re right; WHOOO! I can feel my hair growing…Y’all, time for a change of subject. Click on the “NFL” part of ESPN’s website and Pasquarelli’s actually got two positive articles about the Falcons. Not sure how many of you are football fans (I BLEED the sport), but ESPN is even less forthcoming about Falcons info than they are with Braves. This is a coup. Man…I need a break; I’m all tingly…Carolina Lady, why no props for me? I was nice, which is harder for me to do as I’m normally prone to violence and bad language! Waaaah! Poor Me!! I need affirmation! :-)

By Brian

July 28, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

robert- francoeur hammered the ball. i don’t think he gave up. did you see mccann on the bench. i don’t think he gave up. relax, b/c 1 loss in a baseball season is not the end of the world. the braves are playing much better baseball right now. there is still a lot of time left. if you’ll think back about 13 seasons, the braves were 10 games back of an excellent giants team. i think you know how that came out. never surrender.

By SUPERGRASS

July 28, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

mets retired 21 of last 22 in a row- disgusting, besides the 1st we didnt do much..hoRam didnt give us much of a chance though ….. he kinda pitched like he did at houston in june, 1.2 ip giving up like 6 runs, it was the game he left after he got hit in the head. braves might haave to go after a starter….. anyways, chipper looked like he was in great deal of pain, the DL is probably next for him…. that game really hurt….whats with losing at home, being under .500 at home… now braves are tied with the marlins for 2nd

By krath

July 28, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

BTW Lew….Bob Boozer was the starter for the Phils that day. A friend and myself sat next to his mom and dad and they fed us boiled peanuts the entire game lol

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

Mikey, maybe you’re right. The Mets aren’t this good. This is sickening.

I know this. Don’t anyone tell me that the payroll isn’t responsible. If we had just $20 more million to spend, Wagner is the closer and we would have a real leadoff hitter. I’m just tired of this. Everytime we need to get a big win, we don’t do it. Can’t blame the crowd. The place was sold out.

By Lew

July 28, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

Yes, The Phillies had John Boozer and Bobby Wine. It’s a good thing Skip was not here then. I remember what he used to Do with Kevin Bass and Steve Trout.

By krath

July 28, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

Outta here :)

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

Expensive long term contracts are our major problem. The payroll expenditure is fine it’s just that 50% is consumed by 5 players

By NYFAN

July 28, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

This are not your fathers Mets. 13 out and the braves slip into 3rd place. Three words brave fans……LETS GO METS!!!!!!!!!!! If you couldn’t beat Pedro on an off night you can forget it.

By krath

July 28, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

Outta here :)

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

Robert, my man; we still have plenty of games left. Let us have no harshed mellows! I could hug a thornbush right now, just ‘cause it was there…

By shawn

July 28, 2006 10:36 PM | Link to this

look at the standings now……Chipper is out again. Am I so crazy now….for the guy who said he wanted to stop hearing the talk of being like the Marlins, we are behind them now.We aren’t making the playoffs guys and with our record we shouldn’t.When I suggested trading some guys I was not advocating a fire sale.I think major league talent should come back not just prospects.Some monetary flexibilty for next year would go a long way.We don’t want to face the fact that this team is not very good. No bench, no speed, no leadoff hitter(and please don’t tell me about Giles OBSP as he is 7th of among NL second baseman much less leadoff hitters), no starters other than Smoltz, and no bullpen.We need a lot and we aren’t going to get it giving up A ball prospects.Trade the guys you can and spend their salaries next year.Lew and Tennesse understand I don’t want it this way but hell reality is knocking it won’t go away by pretending it isn’t…

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

July 28, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this

I was hoping this kind of performance wouldn’t happen but I may have been wishing on a star. We keep playing like this, the Wild Card won’t matter.

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this

Now, now, Grinch! You’re a gooood boy. There, there, now. All better??

:-))))))))) (you’re funny!!)

(Glass, you’re forgiven. Just think how Mrs Glass copes with the little ones day in and day out - ad infinitum….she must be a really neat lady!)

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

August schedule

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

Brian, I’m as true a Braves’ fan there is but I can’t live in denial in any longer. This team has huge problems! Huge! We don’t have starting pitching. Hudson looks like he is the #5 pitcher on the Royals. Tomorrow would be classifed as a stopper game. Do you really think he will be that stopper? Smoltz is okay but not great. Chucky is trying but he can’t do it alone. The bullpen looked awseome tonight, but we all know tomorrow they could implode. The offense is terrific but that park is not suited for them. Joe Simpson made an excellent point about the fact the balls hit tonight would have been home runs in other parks. Renteria hit two that would have been gone in almost any other park.

Francouer cares. McCann cares. LaRoche cares. Smoltz cares. Giles cares. But, does anyone else. Did you see everyone just leave like it was no big deal. You could see on Giles face that he knows its over. The whole damn thing is over.

Maybe tomorrow I will wake up and feel differntly, but I really thought this team could pull off a sweep. It just seems like the baseball gods are finally against us. Can anyone explain how Wright’s ball left the field but the two Renteria hit, Francoeur’s, McCann’s, Giles, Chipper’s, LaRoche’s three, and Langerhan’s balls all stayed in the yard.

As I type there should be a closed door meeting where someone (preferably McCann, Smoltz, or Giles) stands up and asks each and every player do they really want this or not. If the Reds win, we are also 6 1/2 games back of the wild card.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this

Mrs. Glass is an elementary school teacher and Mr. Glass teaches high school, so we’re both certifiable.

By brian

July 28, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

can Thorman play 1B

By NYFAN

July 28, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

For all you brave fans asking yourself “how can this be?” The answer is simple, TALENT. The brave don’t have more of it that the NY Mets do…..FAGETABOUTIT.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

“If we only had $20 million more to spend…” Yeah, if only. I could think of a lot of things to do with just $20 mil. more…Maybe even put some flowmasters on my SS! Just pickin’ at you, Robert; I feel your pain. I’m just so mellow now I don’t care. Listening to “Wicker Man” by Iron Maiden; good stuff. Ummm, I had something pertinent to say, but I’ve already forgotten. Anyhoo, anyone else think “Balls to the Wall” by Accept would be a good intro for a closer and/or hitter? Not just the lyrics, but the music, too. Starts you right off hardcore.

By Brian

July 28, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

well you pinpointed the problem, robert. no one is going to go in the shower throwing bats. no lollygagging speech. chipper has begun to help the younglings, but is he going to give a wakeup call? smoltz is the ideal guy, but it seems that the leader needs to be an everyday guy. we have a lot of quiet leaders - renteria, andruw, chipper, mccan. i’d like to see tp do it, he was willing to when he was on the team. don’t think he’ll do it now.

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

Glass, you are so right! Salute to both of you! What subject/s do you teach? :-)

By Brian

July 28, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

other brian- thorman can definitely play 1b

By brian

July 28, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

typo

meant to say can Thorman play 3B??

(I know he can play LF and 1B but I thought he may have played a little 3B at Richmond)

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

July 28, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this

Hey guys, we just traded Betemit to the Dodgers for D. Baez and Willy Aybar? I kinda like it.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Carolina Lady; I’m pawing the carpet with one hoof right now like Ferdinand the bull…

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

I teach history, she’s a P.E. teacher.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

Some rosters move need to be made tonight. The first is to send Schiel back down to the minors and recall Cormier. The guy pitcher good every time out and yet he wasn’t the one called back up. Call the Pirates and offer Langerhans and Jurries for Kip Wells. If our boy Hudson pitches like I’m afraid he will tomorrow, put the feelers out and see who will take him. We will get offers and good ones. Demand a starter and a leadoff hitter in return. Call the Red Sox and ask about Crisp or see if the Orioles would give us Brian Roberts and Corey Patterson. Maybe Leo can get Hudson’s butt out of his head.

Obviously now any deal with Betemit has to be nixed. Even if Chipper wakes up tomorrow and feels good enough to play he is just one bad swing away from aggrevating it again. If we keep Betemit, Chipper can go on the DL and we can hope this team can stay in close enough contention until mid-August when he Chipper could come off the DL. He has the same problem as Puljos and the only thing that fixes an injury like that is time.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this

Boooooooooo. I hate Baez.
I like Aybar. He’s a pretty good super sub. But over all Booooooo. Linebrink was a better deal.
Funny though, JS has now obtained 2 of the 4 closers he approached in the offseason.

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

Grinch, :-))))

Glass, hat off to both of you! I always enjoyed history; still do! Do the kids today care about learning it?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

Brooklyn, I hope you’re kidding.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

BBB, where did you hear this? I just checked out AJC, ESPN, and MLB and saw nothing about it.

By brian

July 28, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

if Thorman can play 3B, that will make Betemit more likely to be traded as Thorman has shown he can hit. Prado can also be called up to cover 2B and 3B. I have a hard time trading a regular player for a bullpen guy but if trading a utility player, even a super utility player, for a reliever is reasonable.

If the Braves get Linebrink - is he the closer apparent next year or do the Braves try and sign Wickman for another year?

I still would love to see the Braves reaquire Wainright if possible from the Cards. Superb stats in the bullpen - possible future closer or #2-3 starter.

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

July 28, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

Hey Rob, Betemit is already gone. See the above post.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

Brooklyn, I hope you’re kidding.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

Boooooooooooo.

Baez just bums me out. Of all the trades. Baez is a rental. Baez is awful. Baez is of the same ilk as Sosa.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

Some do, but most will learn it because they have to.

By shawn

July 28, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

NY Fan more than talent you have a good mix, some speed, some power, good bullpen and adequate starters. Braves only see HR’s and don’t believe in a bullpen. Face it Mets are good BUT not great. They were however well constructed. Braves pushed their luck this year and it bit them. With the right moves though they will be back next year….

By NYFAN

July 28, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

The METS will be NL East champs and go on to represent the National League in the World Series. Thank GOD we won’t have to deal with another year of brave fans telling us how great the braves are because they won the division again.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

Watching the Dodger game, they just mentioned. Also on the main Braves AJC page.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

He’s kidding. That would be one of the stupidest trades I have ever heard of. JS must be smoking some of those potatoes the Grinch has.

OMG its true. They just announced it on Baseball Tonight!

“Turn out the lights. The party is over. They have said it all……

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

At what point do the Dodgers become “Braves-West?”

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 11:02 PM | Link to this

Heard it while watching the Dodgers. Saw it on the Braves AJC page.

By Carolina Lady

July 28, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this

This trade news gives me a sinking feeling right in the middle of my stomach…..

Where’s journalist Bob tonight?? Asleep in the tub again?

11:00 here - past time to turn in again. Good night, all! May we have a better day tomorrow.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 28, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this

Who the f**k is Willy Aybar? Baez is okay I guess. I can live with that, but Willy Aybar. Someone tell me that another deal is coming down the pike. Please? Anyone?

By NYFAN

July 28, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this

Even if the braves win the next two they will still be 11 games out…..How about those METS!!!

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this

espn announced it… Betemit for Baez and Aybar…

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

Guys, check out Baez’ career numbers. He doesn’t walk alotta folks and either he or Wickman can close in 2007.

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

July 28, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

I hated to break that to you guys. I am not a big fan of Baez but I do like Aybar. HHe played wqell against us earlier in the year.

Wilson had been struggling over the past couple of games.

No Jokes, Check the AJC Braves Front page.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

History is by far and away my forte (I’m working on my master’s thesis now), but I find few others share my passion, especially young ones…hence my career involves helping others write. Blah!

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

GHF, it looks to me like he’s not under contract for next year; a rental. Anyone have info to the contrary?

By NYFAN

July 28, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

I guess the trade went down b4 the injury to Larry. Oh crap, who’s gonna play 3rd if Larry can’t play?????

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

Robert, if they were smoking these potatoes they’d have gotten Clemmens for Sosa.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

Aybar is a good pickup too. He can play 2nd or 3rd & is younger than Wilson

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this

Baez is a free agent at the end of the year

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this

Willy Aybar Isn’t a bad pick up. He needs to be on a better team. But, after watching him play last year (in person) he ain’t that bad. He is pretty clutch as well. And his fielding is better. He has more range. Not as much pop though. But a good fill-in guy.

It’s Beaz that bums me out.

By ssiscribe

July 28, 2006 11:16 PM | Link to this

Hate the game tonight, but like the move. Everybody’s screaming about losing Betemit but, as I said way back in May and June, to get somebody you’re gonna have to part with somebody you like.

Good move, all the way around. Aybar’s numbers certainly aren’t as good as Betemit’s, but he’s got tremendous upside. Baez has nine saves this year and saved 70 games for the D’Rays the past two seasons.

Baez in the eighth, Wickman in the ninth. Braves bullpen is fine. Now, gotta try to get the starters going and the offense clicking a little more at home.

Folks, shake off tonight’s loss. Not pretty, certainly. HoRam didn’t pitch well at all. But, there’s 60 games left, plenty of time for the Braves to get rolling again and get closer to the wild-card lead.

Forget the division. Just get to the playoffs. Everybody there needs 11 wins to take the trophy home; doesn’t matter how you get there.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this

We should have cash to sign Baez and/or Wickman because we won’t be wasting millions on Sosa, Thomson, and Reitsma.

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

Baez was a fine closer for Tampa; didn’t do so great for LA in a mixed role. I wanted us to pursue him last offseason as a closer right behind BJ Ryan.

Just kind of surprised we’d trade WB for a similar but less potent infielder (a better fielder) and a free-agent pitcher. Got a feeling (or a hope) that there’s more to the story…

By Jeremy

July 28, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

This blows! Baez’s ERA is 4.35!!! And now who’s gonna play 3B with Chipper hurt AGAIN? Terrible deal!

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

July 28, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

The more I look at this the more I am okay with this dea. Baez is a power arm that has a good fast-ball and better split. He’s a set-up guy and miscast as a closer in Tampa and in LA. I like Aybar alot. He has a little pop and can play 3B, 2b, and 1B. He has good speed and can leadoff.

There has to be another move coming. Sosa is just taking up a roster spot. You need to fill it with someone who is going be some help.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 11:21 PM | Link to this

If Baez is a pretty reliable set-up man (and, to be honest, I haven;t seen him much), Aybars is a fairly decent fill-in for Wilson, considering he wouldn’t have been given a chance to play here full-time here anyway. I see JS’s reasoning, though it’s a gamble.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this

Aybar hasn’t been in alotta big league games but he’s on the rise. Good deal. We tried to get Baez last year and during the off-season so be cool nay-sayers.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

Pardon my grammar; I’m roasted. JS knows what he’s doing, y’all; give him a chance. Now I have to take a break! Be back in a little…

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

GHF, I’m not a naysayer. I just expected we’d pursue someone who would be around next year in exchange for Betemit. I think our playoff chances this year are minimal, and Betemit should’ve been used to improve our chances next year as well as this. (and I’m NOT a huge Betemit fan, btw).

Just trying to get a grip on this. I’m very familiar with Baez and he’s good… but for 2 months? I’m kinda surprised by that.

By brian

July 28, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

DOB-

Can Aybar be a leadoff hitter? If so and he fills in for Chipper, can we expect him to leadoff and Giles be moved down in the lineup? Which pitcher now gets released to create room for Baez? I hope Paronto and Yates do not get sent down. They have been solid. ? Sosa. Are there other deals in the works DOB?

I agree with the posts above that the Braves need another starter with Hudson struggling. Getting Willis would be the coup of the century so far for JS.

By Jeremy

July 28, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

CBS Sportsline says the Braves got cash from the Dodgers too. Maybe JS has 1 more deal coming.

By Brooklyn Braves brawler

July 28, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

If you could package Langerhans, Giles, with Sosa for a leadoff guy of some kind like a Brian Roberts. There has to be another deal brewing.

By brian

July 28, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

CBS.Sportsline.com comments on Aybar as someone who does not have a high ceiling but won’t embarass himself either. Classic utility man. Betemit did have a ceiling. This trade all depends on Baez - does he pitch well and does he reup with ATL

I sure hope JS has another trick up his sleeve.

Carolina Lady - I didn’t see an answer to which of the Big 4 you cheer for. Please don’t say it is Duke

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

Aybar is a 3rd baseman but has played 2nd. As I said earlier, Baez and/or Wickman can be resigned with the money that won’t be wasted on Sosa, Thomson, and Reitsma.

By Calvin

July 28, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this

You know what. I kinda like this deal. Aybar can leadoff pushing Giles to the 3rd hole until Jones get healthy. As long as Baez can be consistent, I think we might have a good one-two combination with him and Wickman. Betemit is a streaky hitter and he was in the downside of a streak so it was a good time to trade him. Good trade. Now we need a starter from somewhere.

By Stanford

July 28, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this

GHF, they could be signed without giving up Betemit, just as well. We’ll have NO advantage for Wickman or Baez next year over any other team, unless you expect “home team discounts” from guys who’ve spent two months here.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this

The cash part of the deal leads one to believe that a deal for another outfield bat may be forthcoming.

By Glass Half Full

July 28, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

Let’s just see what Baez does before we curse JS. Either he or Wickman can close next year.

By The Grinch

July 28, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

I smell another deal…Have faith…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

Okay,I’m trying to make sense of this trade. Aybar I see to some extent. He has some speed and is a good fielder. Baez on the other hand scares me. I would rather have Ray, Paronto, or Yates be the setup guy. If its true we also got cash in the deal then maybe Baez is a pawn to be used in another trade. Maybe to the Yankees for Canoe. The Yanks need another closer.

By Stanford

July 29, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

GHF…am I beating my head against a wall here? Wickman and Baez were on the FA market last offseason and we weren’t willing to pay for them. They will be on the FA market again next year; we might choose to pay for them, but we won’t have Betemit as a backup or a trade chip any more.

Maybe Baez will lead us to the World Series THIS YEAR, but he is NOT our property next year; neither is Wickman. We’ll be bidding against every other ML team for their services.

That’s what upsets me about this trade. I have nothing against Baez, but it’s a rental and we should’ve gotten more than that for WB.

Right… hopefully another shoe will drop.

By The Grinch

July 29, 2006 12:06 AM | Link to this

GHF, I’m high, but even when I havent been I’ve had faith in this team. Shrewd deals will be made, and we will contend. We may not win this yeat, but with our recent aquisitions on top of our returning players next year (and Hampton is no slouch), we will get back on top of these pathetic fools and be dominant like in Roman times…I smell it! Hooo-ahhh!

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this

Instead of Betemit, we’ll have the younger and faster Aybar. Check out the numbers in DOB’s article about the trade. The king is dead, long live the new king!

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 12:15 AM | Link to this

Baez’s numbers may be artificially high as far as ERA goes. He went from Tampa Bay to LA. Tampa has 13 fans and the expectations for the Dodgers were through the roof.

By Stanford

July 29, 2006 12:17 AM | Link to this

aarggh! Later dude!

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2006 12:25 AM | Link to this

I do like the cash. I really like the idea that we got cash in this trade. Now for a block buster.

Baez better perform. Aybar should be a good addition. He’s a pretty slick fielder and is faster than Betemit.

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 12:32 AM | Link to this

My Lady, not asleep, just a storm … didn’t last long but it knocked out our electricty … bummer of a game.

Looks like we could certainly have used a little more profundity and a lot more decorum on the blog tonight … it’ll take a while to read all of what I’ve missed but from what I’ve seen already, some folks really surprised and disappointed me … you guys are better than that … especially those with youngsters that look up to you!

Why if I had talked like that, Mama would have washed my mouth out with soap and sent me outside for two big hickory switches … platted ‘em … and I wouldn’t have sat down for a week … Mama was 5’2” and weighed but 104, but she knew how to teach me a lesson I’d not soon forget.

I often say that man may not always be rational but can always rationalize … I got that from my Mama, who more than once said between licks, “I don’t want to hear any excuse … I know you’re sorry … and a sorry excuse you are too, you’ll learn to mind your manners and hold your toungue … if it kills you!”

I shall miss the Buttermint Babe … and whether it be as Star or Utility Player, I wish him well … seems to me he more than paid his dues … methinks it’s a mistake but hopefully all will benefit from the trade.

It will be interesting to the the effect of the trade, if any, on team chemistry. The trade would not have been made … had the powers that are, not felt that it was in our best interest … maybe we can now get to the business at hand.

Shame, shame Grinch … how come you never offered to help me with my writing?

By David

July 29, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this

We got F’d in the A during the game and during the trade. Woe is the braves. Beware the Ides of M…august.

By The Grinch

July 29, 2006 01:32 AM | Link to this

Journalist Bob, you never ask! And truthfully you were a writer long before I was; Im honored to help you as best I can! But I’m not shy, so ask away! :-) I stared to say saomething important, but am limmited to snooze timr…

By mariner

July 29, 2006 02:15 AM | Link to this

I like the trade fine. It’s less than I was hoping for (Linebrink), but we do control Aybar for several years and he seems like he will fit into the utility role just fine. I don’t care if we resign Wickman or Baez next year or not. If we don’t, I don’t think it diminishes either trade. We didn’t give up much to try and improve our chances for this year. And we got a younger, faster, cheaper version of Betemit, albeit less power and not as developed. And the reality of it is, I guess a better trade involving a relief pitcher wasn’t available, so JS made the best deal he could. I’d rather he go for it, than do nothing. WB was not the linchpin holding this sub-500 team together for the playoff push. And I agree that there is probably one more deal going down before the non-waiver trade deadline. The Padres just lost one option for 3rd base, and there aren’t that many available. If I were them I’d try and work a deal for Giles. He can play 3rd and I think he would be a better fit than Beltre or Ensberg who either cost too much or are injured and not playing well.

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 02:20 AM | Link to this

Robert, in today’s environment, seldom is it anymore that we see Justice.

While you and I don’t always agree, I find many of your posts to be heartfelt, good reads that I enjoy.

However, I am certainly bemused by your “This run is over” post …. and I mean the whole doggoned thing.

I can’t understand why an astute observer of long standing like yourself would think or feel that this team has no heart … not saying you’re wrong, just that I don’t understand.

I had a friend and colleague named Tom Bateman who had taken and failed the first of the Mathematical Eexaminations offered by the Society of Actuaries, several years before I myself took that exam … Tom took a job in Atlanta, moved his family and reentered school … took and excelled in all of the requisite courses, studied hard and carefully prepared for the examination … but he failed miserably, not once but at least two more times! Tom lost, he struckout everytime he came to bat … but he didn’t quit … in my book he was a winner and he had heart!

I’m stubborn and you’ll have a hard time convincing me that they gave up on themselves tonight … they may have been down, seeing Chipper go down didn’t help, and indeed they lost the game … but it was only some fans that may have abandoned ship … not the team, they have pride in addition to heart.

It’s quite understandable that you don’t understand this team … you’re not alone. The best way to get beyond that hurdle may be to become the 26th member of the squad rather than the uninvited member of management that most fans try to be.

Tomorrow is another day.

By MEB

July 29, 2006 02:41 AM | Link to this

I have returned from Atlanta and I must report to the Blog that I was unable to root our Braves to victory on Thursday afternoon or Friday night. While driving home I learned of the trade of Wilson B and I am too tired to render an opinion but I don’t think I like it. Good night all!

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 03:19 AM | Link to this

Grinch, Lord knows I need the help but I’m not about to ask … especially not in public! I’m not a writer by any imaginational stretch but I’m not afraid to try to express myself on occassion … as painful as it might be on others … so I’ll just keep on keeping on.

I hired a young man once who had been recently graduated summa c*m laude from one of Georgia’s finest … it took him nine months to learn how to write an effective business letter. Shortly after leaving the company, I received a nice letter thanking me for having been a stern taskmaster and taking an interest in him … further explaining that Samuel Clemmens, Will Shakesphere and Simple Business Letter Writing had not been among the courses in his Curriculum.

It’ll shortly be time for me to wake up and do something useful like go to bed. You have to stay fresh so that you can cast pearls and maintain peace and justice for all on the Blog during daylight hours and primetime.

Later …

By Tomahawkin

July 29, 2006 03:21 AM | Link to this

Hey Grinch, If Ur still up, I got my Drank, as well as my swerve on at the club after I got off work at the home depot….

Good man… Holla back….

By Tomahawkin

July 29, 2006 03:33 AM | Link to this

Hey Carroll, I got Yo back, U are Right, I once Hit my Toe with a sledgehammer and kept on working, Pro baseball palyers are poosies…I agree 100 percent, they have nuthin on playas like Brett Favre and McNabb

By shawn

July 29, 2006 03:34 AM | Link to this

guys whatever the cash was it was to pay baez who makes 4mill not to get someone else. Just how much cash do you think the Dodgers gave them….maybe 1 mill.If JS gets someone else it will not be a blockbuster…no Willis, Zito, or Soriano guys just maybe a Conine or some number 4 starter.If he didn’t spend big money to start the year why in the hell would he spending now as we circle the drain. Look at the standings guys this year is done and we won’t be the wild card or division champs. Retool and shoot for next year.Hopefully we upgrade in the offseason but if one more person says we are o.k. for next year because Davies and Foster will be back I am gonna hurl!

By Tomahawkin

July 29, 2006 03:38 AM | Link to this

Oh yea Grinch, and Carroll… I’m drunk as Shyt doing these posts, I need to get my a-s-s in bed, gotta work at the Depot tomorrow…

By David

July 29, 2006 04:46 AM | Link to this

JS’s worst trade as Brave GM.Bench is weaker,bullpen is NOT improved one iota,plus we’ve added salary.

Slim chance of wild card just went out the door.

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 05:31 AM | Link to this

Let’s blame these two losses on MEB’s failue to get the job done! He’s obviously at being a blogger than he is at bring home the bacon.

Semi-seriously, I think the Dodgers may have snookered us … The Braves, excluding Wilson’s 1/1 are hitting 2/16 or .125 against Baez so they get someone who can hit him and we get someone that we can’t hit. That sounds pretty good until you realize that the rest of the league is hitting 40/139 or .288 against him.

Dodger rivals Giants and Padres were hitting a combined 15/41 or .366 against him so the Dodgers aren’t unhappy that he isn’t facing them any more … at least not in Dodger Blue.

Two of our rivals are doing okay too … the Phillies and Nationals are a combined 6/13 or .462 while the Mets are 0/4 and he hasn’t pitched against the Marlins … that’s 6/17 or .353 against our divisional rivals.

In the American League where he’s better known, they hit 11/31 or .355 this year.

Not a bad swap … they got a hitter that gets hits and we got a pitcher that gets hit … sounds fair to me.

Willy Aybar may have speed as some have said but he only has one stolen base … of course you can’t steal first but he’s been on base 50 times this year. He’s hitting .250 with 1 homerun for each 49 times he comes to bat … but is only 1/15 or .067 against lefties … not exactly what the doctor ordered for when Chipper’s ailing … and not Buttermint type numbers!

By Head Coach

July 29, 2006 06:24 AM | Link to this

Betemit gets traded , Chipper gets hurt and is probably headed for the DL. So……. Who’s on third ? Maybe we should ask Abbott & Costello. Scheurholz had better resign Beaz in the offseason , otherwise this turns into Willy Aybar for Wilson Betemit and that is one great trade for the Dodgers. Happy Birthday Wilson !! You get to play 3B everyday for a team with what is almost an identical record to the Braves and they are not pretending to be in the hunt for the playoffs. Hey Abbott !!!! Who’s on third ?????

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 06:31 AM | Link to this

I just noticed that the AJC Blog Editor has put an asterisk in place of the letter “u” in one of my earlier posts, to wit that infamous vulgarity “summa c*m laude”.

I wish to apologize to all, and especially to the Editor in charge of the bad word list … to whom we’re all indebted for the fine job being done to keep the Blog free of vulgarities.

It was certainly not my intent to sneak nasty words past the editor and onto the Blog! I don’t know of what I could have been thinking but I shall make every effort to avoid such behavior in the future.

By Head Coach

July 29, 2006 06:33 AM | Link to this

No Lou , who’s on first , What’s on second , I don’t know’s on third…………. I don’t know’s on third ? sounds about right.

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 06:41 AM | Link to this

Coach, at least we know who isn’t … he’s on first and his name is Adam!

Methinks it may be harder to get off Bobby’s list than some folks imagine … of course, maybe it’s not so hard … and, of course I said may be.

By ssiscribe

July 29, 2006 07:07 AM | Link to this

Maybe it’s the late night on desk (thanks in part to what we’re all talking about). Maybe it’s the move. Or maybe I’m just missing the point.

I’m really surprised to read so many negative comments about this trade. I think it’s because so many of us liked Wilson. He worked hard, finally broke through and lived up to his potential, and was an intregal part of the team’s success last season and this season.

But — I’ll say it again — you have to give up talent to get talent. Everybody’s trying to win. The Dodgers have stunk since the All-Star break, yet they’re one good week away from leading the West. They think Betemit can help get them there.

They traded from a position of strength because they have a good infield (bolstered by signing Furcal) and a deep bullpen (bolstered by trading for Baez with Tampa last winter). The Braves traded from a position of strength, too. Sure, Betemit has proven very valuable at second (which isn’t his natural position) and third, especially third when Chipper’s been dinged up.

But, Betemit is blocked by Chipper at third, Giles at second (face it, folks, Gilly’s here; nobody’s taking him in a trade, and throw out April and May, and he’s done the job) and Renteria at short. Plus, the Braves have Prado and Escobar who will be ready sooner rather than later, Prado already with a good cup of coffee earlier this season.

Aybar’s been one of the top Dodger prospects for quite some time, much like Betemit was with the Braves. Aybar can hit for average, has some pop, good gap power and speed, and plays good defense.

As for Baez, many of us (myself included) hollered to trade for him last winter at the meetings, but the D-Rays were asking too much. Didn’t they want James/Davies and Salty and somebody else? I think Betemit, and getting a productive infielder in return, is a less steep price to pay.

There will be cash freed up at season’s end, which leads me to believe the Braves can sign at least one of their two “closer” types now, Wickman or Baez. Both are older. Neither has pitched in a World Series. Both can see the young foundation here. Both will play a big role in whether or not Atlanta gets to the postseason this year. I think at least one will definitely be back in 2007, and perhaps both of them.

There are a ton of bad vibes about things right now, and I understand that. This move won’t mean squat either way if the Braves don’t start playing better. The starting pitching has to step up. HoRam was brutal last night, plain and simple, in a game the Braves really needed to win.

They didn’t need to win the game for the division; that thing is over. But, all you have to do is get into the playoffs, and the wild card remains out there for the taking. True, the Braves have slipped two games in the standings in less than 48 hours, but a big three-game set with wild-card leader Cincinnati looms next weekend, and the schedule still favors the Braves.

This team is good enough to get to the postseason, more so now with the addition of Baez and Aybar. The subtraction of Betemit has bruised some feelings, certainly. But at the end of the day, this is a move the Braves had to have the courage to make.

By Ted

July 29, 2006 07:36 AM | Link to this

Baez is an f’in joke.

What is up with JS the last few years in trading talent for crappy relievers? I mean, Capellan for Kolb, Estrada for Villraeal and Cormier and now Betemit for Baez. All of these guys are soft-tossing crap that can be easily found in AAA (or lower).

God, this is so sad. Throw in last night’s joke of a performance, Chipper’s injury and the Reds’ win and last night definitely was not a good night to be a Braves fan.

By Greg

July 29, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this

Season over. Hope we have new owners next year. Must have power pitching starter, power pitching closer, and leadoff man or we won’t be in contention. So be prepared for another season of mediocrity. I keep thinking if we’d signed Wickman in spring, maybe June wouldn’t have been so awful. I think it’s time for JS to retire. Bobby, too. Neither one seems to realize that the game has changed. Relievers are now the single most important element of a champion club. Look at the Mets. Shaky rotation. Lights out bullpen. Eating our lunch.

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 08:26 AM | Link to this

SSIscribe, I can’t argue with your logic and have privately proffered much of the same; especially with regard to the logical disposition of Wilson … much of my negativeness has been a bit “tongue-in-cheek” but Baez looks to me like a strikeout pitcher that doesn’t get that many strikeouts; at least the few times that I’ve seen him.

I saw Aybar last year and was impressed … but with Prado and Escobar apparently ready to strut their stuff on the big stage, his performance against lefties, albeit limited exposure, gives me pause to ponder the utility of acquiring him as opposed to adding messers Prado and Escobar to the list of 25.

If they’ve got an “A” on their cap and it says Braves accross the front, they’re part of the team for which I root … I just hope that your bottom line is correct.

By Don

July 29, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

I am not a JS basher but think this trade is a joke. Obviously he doesn’t think Betemit can play, as he was never considered for shortstop after Furcal signed with the Dodgers. JS made a great trade for Renteria but it he hadn’t have been able to make that deal he would have traded for somebody else instead of giving Betemit a shot. Now we have Chipper’s continuing physical breakdown and JS was determined to deal Betemit anyway.

I must not see what the Braves organization sees, as I view Betemit as a player with the potential to hit .290 with 25 home runs and 35 doubles if he played every day. It looks to me like we traded him for a lesser utility infielder and a 60 day rental of an overpriced declining relief pitcher. If you look at Baez by season you see his strikeouts per 9 innings declining from over 9 in 2001 to well under 6 this year. His ERA has gone up steadily and is his highest ever this year even though he’s pitching in this year’s crummy National League after pitching in the American previously. He apparently thinks he should be a closer and doesn’t like the setup role. Next year he will be somewhere else.

This team is barely in contention for a wild card spot and we just gave up Betemit for another friggin rental. Stupid.

By Head Coach

July 29, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this

Since 1900 no major league team playing a full schedule has ever made the playoffs with anything less than 82 wins. Since the wildcard was introduced in 1994 , no wildcard winner playing a full season has won it with anything less than 88 wins. The Braves are 48-54 after 102 games played with 60 games left. Do the math , they have to win 40 of the remaining 60 games just to have any chance at the wildcard and the last ten years the wildcard winner has averaged 92 wins. Would I be wrong in assuming they have about a snowball’s chance in hell of making the playoffs ?

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

Greg … “Relievers are now the single most important element of a champion club” … Goodness!

I’d wager that if you took a poll of all the bloggers, you’d get more than just a few opines regarding that most important and elusive element.

I’m not sure that I’d even agree that there was a single most important element in a team sport such as baseball … maybe a tossup between heart, chemistry, and a manager that can get the most out of 25 individual temperaments each and every day.

By JasonInMaine

July 29, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

I posted this rumor at the beginning of the Blog and no one responded. Honestly, if the Braves were soldon Betemit being an everyday player, they would have traded for Renteria and they wouldn’t have traded for Aybar and Baez. So, for whatever reason, it is clear that the Braves’ brass simply doesn’t think Wilson will ever be a good starter. They know more about baseball than I do.

I do agree that the one negative is the fact that Baez isn’t under contract for next year. The attractive part of Proctor or Linebrink was the fact that they would be on the team next year.

But, I do feel that the Braves still have one more move in them. That being said, I know people here like Thorman; and I do as well, but it would be nice to get a LF that is a true leadoff hitter. The Braves simply can’t rely on the long ball EVERY single night. There are nights when they strike out 20 freakin times. If they are going to make the playoffs, they need to be able to manufacture runs at times. A true leadoff hitter with speed will help with that. I know Marcus has been hitting better lately, but he still doesn’t really help with small ball. Of course, it wouldn’t hurt to have a starter for the next month either. Either way, I don’t think the Braves are done.

Regards,

Jason

By mariner

July 29, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this

read a few dodger blogs. first off, couldn’t find one near as good as this one. i was dissapointed to read that aybar’s defense got trashed almost unanimously. i thought at least if he couldn’t hit like betemit, at least he could pick it. apparently not.

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this

Coach, you know that I don’t pay much attention to the numbers … but, the way I see it, in the loss column we’re 6 back with 60 to go … that means that we’ve got to lose 6 fewer games than the Reds (1 out of each 10 we play); 4 back of the Diamondbacks (1 out of each 15), 2 back of the Giants (1 out of each 30), and one back of the Marlins and the Rockies (1 out of 60) … we have to do each and every one of those things if we are to win or at least tie for the Wild Card.

The total number of wins isn’t relevant!

Do we have a chance of doing what I described? I think we have a good one … but that’s for you to decide.

Regardless, that’s what we must do if we are to make it! … and *it’s all that is required … at this point, we can’t say how many wins it will take to make it happen … but I assure you, the above acheivement will do the job, each and every time!

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this

Coach, my above post should also indirectly explain to some doubting Thomases why the number of teams in front of a team is of some importance.

As an aside, I do not own or play for the Braves … I realize that the use of “we” is taking some license but it’s shorter and easier to type than “the Braves”.

By Patrick

July 29, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this

DOB,

What do you think of this trade??

By Plate O' Meat

July 29, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this

I knew they were going to unload Betemit, but I still can’t believe they did it. They will realy regret this. They guy plays three infield positions and is a great switch hitter with power. With our gimp infielders we couldn’t afford to part with a guy like that. Still trying to figure out why Giles was starting instead of him. I really don’t understand Bobby Cox sometimes, and I am especially dissapointed with the return for such an in demand player. The worst part is the Braves had absolutely NO CHANCE of winning the world series anyway with only one consistent starting pitcher, and now that the bench has suffered a major depletion I don’t think they’re any closer than they were before. Like Brooklyn said, Giles and Langerhans could have easily been packaged instead of Betemit……..I respect JS, but think this may be his worst trade ever. Really think they’re going to look foolish down the line for this one….

By ssiscribe

July 29, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

And as an aside, it goes without saying that Tim Hudson best pitch like an ace today. The ballclub needs him to man up like never before.

By dadgum

July 29, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

First off let me add what nobody else seems to be thinking. If you really look very hard at the Braves roster and are really honest with the assessment, the Braves biggest need was not addressed with this trade and that is starting pitching.

Smoltz is obviously not the main concern this year as he is very good but not excellent. His age worries me and I can’t see him as a Brave past next year or ‘08. Hudson, Ramirez, Thomson, Davies, Hampton, Schiel…..well you can see where I am going with this. Given Hudson’s slide he is not as good as anything in the Marlin’s rotation ditto the others. Bottom line-setup guys don’t do you much good when there is nothing to set up or closers to close.

I hope the trade proves me wrong as I won’t jump ship but since we are on this blog we have to blog about what we haven’t seen from Baez and Aylbar and on the surface and maybe deeper than that this trade looks HORRIBLE for the Braves.

Since I know for dead certain that JS is a master at putting together good deals I await ANXIOUSLY the next trade. If it is not a starting pitcher then you can kiss any idea about the wildcard out the window today. No trade will give the Braves the upperhand in the wildcard without addressing starting pitching. To another post that couldn’t decide the most important part of a team. Well I can! It is pure and simple…starting pitching. To wit: Remember Smoltz, Glavine, Avery, then adding some dude named Maddux (from the Cubs of all teams) AFTER he had won his first Cy Young. That is what this team needs now. Not necessarily Maddux (which may happen) but someone of that caliber. Not saying it is doable but…..

Also if Giles stays he will never ever ever ever bat 3rd for the Braves. Who mentioned that on this blog earlier. Good God in Heaven dude. A strikeout artist being promoted to 3rd in the order? Look for Aylbar to bat leadoff followed by Renteria, Jones(healthy), Jones, McCann, Francouer, LaRoche, Thorman. I like Giles as a 8 hole hitter behind Adam if he plays. Frankly, I don’t have Giles in the lineup since the trade if Chipper isn’t hurt. Oh well…my take and 2 cents.

If people have circular drives how do they ever get out……….

By Bryan

July 29, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

Ssiscribe, I am right there with you.

I was at coors field last night and i thought the world was crshing down: I watched a pitchers duel in Denver and the Braves nailed a great trade that got us a quality bullpen and a replacement for WB(on a night they lost a game they should have won).

This trade is great, Wilson will not be a superstar, but he will be good. Good luck to him, sorry he had his head in his a$$ for a few years before 2005.

Ween and FLaming Lips at the Red Rocks tonight!

Bryan

By Bryan

July 29, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

Ssiscribe, I am right there with you.

I was at coors field last night and i thought the world was crshing down: I watched a pitchers duel in Denver and the Braves nailed a great trade that got us a quality bullpen and a replacement for WB(on a night they lost a game they should have won).

This trade is great, Wilson will not be a superstar, but he will be good. Good luck to him, sorry he had his head in his a$$ for a few years before 2005.

Ween and FLaming Lips at the Red Rocks tonight!

Bryan

By krath

July 29, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

OK….Wickman is gonna cost you 5 mil if you decide to keep him next year. Baez is gonna command 4 mil or better. So unless Schuerholz has learned his lesson from his penny pinching last off season, he is a rent-a-player. The Braves chances of making the post season are still too iffy. To give up Betemit for someone you may not even retain after the season! This trade is a stinker. Baez may not even be effective! He’s been no better than what we already have out there. It’s not like Leo is here to find something wrong and fix it overnight.

If Schuerholz had opened his pocketbook a little wider in the off season (instead of pocketing 6 mil for later) he could have already had Baez and kept Wilson.

If Aybar don’t produce immediately and BIG this trade is gonna stink within a week. Chipper ain’t gonna be in the lineup for a while. If Aybar doesn’t come up big… the Braves could effectively out of the wildcard in a week. A lot to lump on someone coming in but with Wilson you knew you were going to get an offensive contribution, if not today, tomorrow.

So if the guys don’t make it in before gametime today, do you start Pete Orr at 3rd? That will strike fear in the heart of the Mets for sure!!! lol

By dadgum

July 29, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

We just traded Betemit to a team we most likely will have to battle with to get the wild card. Um….

I do feel the Braves are making a big push to get Maddux. As you recall they didn’t want to lose him anyway. My guess is that the Dodgers are ahead in that possibility. They also haven’t given up on Willis it is just that the Marlins haven’t given in and probably won’t given their bright future.

Like you I love the Braves and playing soothsayer or quasi GM is fun but reality is that what you and I banter back and forth has no bearing on the Braves true thoughts. We may hit on the nose what DOB is thinking and it may come to pass that what we are thinking is actually what the Braves are thinking and we look like geniuses and maybe even take some credit for being astute baseball people. That is all the fun part. Throw in stuff like music tips and BBQ joints and man it is great to be alive. So I will pretend to be GM and continue to state that STARTING PITCHING is the need dudes/dudettes. God Bless!!

GT will beat ND, the Carolina Panthers will win the Super Bowl. Word is there will indeed be a Led Zeppelin reunion with Bonham’s son on drums(rumored for years)in London in early ‘07 with other cities to be confirmed. Now that is great stuff if it comes to pass. I am not counting on that regardless of the source……..

By geauxbraves2000

July 29, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

This guy should fit nicely in the Braves bullen.
May 13 - Danys Baez blew a three-run lead and took a loss after giving up four runs — three earned — in the ninth versus the Giants on Sunday.

May 7, Danys Baez blew a third straight save after giving up a run in the ninth inning Saturday against the Brewers.

April 30, Danys Baez was charged with a blown save after allowing two runs in the bottom of the ninth against the Padres on Sunday.

Apr. 20, 2006, Danys Baez was brought in to start the eighth inning and protect a 4-2 lead versus the Cubs on Wednesday but blew the save when he yielded three unearned runs that inning.

Thanks to rotoworld.com for this info.

By Sam

July 29, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

I have to call out some of the comments I’ve been reading on this blog and the one posted specifically about the trade. First off…the idea that Schuerholz has been “penny pinching”. Good Lord, do you follow baseball at all? The GM does not set the budget people. He works within it. If you want to find fault with penny pinching, the fault lies in New York at the offices of Time Warner. They own the team you know. JS has NOTHING to do with the three year decline in payroll. Second several people posted “trade JS for DePodesta”. Too bad DePodesta isn’t the Dodgers GM anymore. It’s Ned Colletti. This makes me wonder what other facets of reality people who post here are unaware of. Things like the fact that Giles’ trade value will almost certainly NEVER be lower AND he will make about $5mm more than WB next year. That’s why Giles wasn’t the guy traded last night. Anybody saying - “this is terrible, they should have traded Giles” must think there are some pretty foolish GMs out there. Anybody can post here, but everybody should at least check their facts before pushing them out to the world.

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

Before Monday’s deadline several teams will give up more than the likes of Betemit to get pitchers who aren’t as good as Baez. Folks, Baez has decent numbers and he’s better than Sosa, Reitsma, Remlinger, Shiell, etc.,

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

After Baez’s first scoreless inning and Aybar’s first homerun people will be saying what a genius JS is.

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

This is the 3rd time I’ve said this: we may not be able to resign either Wickman or Baez, but we’ll have more financial flexibility with the millions saved from Sosa, Thomson, Reitsma, and probably even Giles. Either or both could be Braves next year.

By dadgum

July 29, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

Three positions on the field valued more for defense than offense are catcher, 2nd, SS. Giles is excellent defensively and as long as he bats around 250-270 that is acceptable. The fact that he is not a true leadoff guy is what really hurts the Braves. If Aylbar can play 2nd and leadoff when Chipper is healthy I think you will see Giles traded. If the Braves get the gren light on Chipper Giles may be gone after tomorrow in some deal. If Chipper has to go DL then Giles may not be moved until later. In any event they don’t want to go to arbitration with Giles which I don’t think will do and have to pay more for him than they want given what they have on the farm teams. They in the same breath don’t want him to be a free agent and get nothing in return either. Thus Giles will be traded we just don’t know when. Chippers’ constant injuries aren’t helping matters here at the trade deadline that is for sure.

By Head Coach

July 29, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

Bob , I dont think your numbers apply to my math . I’ll stick with my addition and subtraction. It makes sense.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

As much as I like Maddux I hope the Braves aren’t tring to get him back. I haven’t seen anything that indicates he can help the pitching and besides he’s a 40 yr old rental player. If we were to get starting pitching I hope, we would go after Livan Herandez (although I’m skeptical of him) or Tony Armas or Mark Redman.

I said last night and I will say again that I think this trade was a “bridge” trade for both teams to get what they really wannt. The Dodgers have coveted Maddux all year. I think Betemit would be a good barganing piece to the Cubs. Now, what would the Braves want. Well, they could package Baez, Langerhans, and either Thorma, Giles, or Jurries to someone for a leadoff bat or another starter. Would that be enough for the Devil Rays? Probably not, but the idea of 1B could intrigue them. The Orioles could be interested. Also, a team like the Pirates would be willing to give up a Kip Wells and maybe a reliever since they look to be in the market for a 1B who is cheap (Jurries or Thorman).

By krath

July 29, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Hey Sam…. do you follow Baseball? Baez made 4 mil this year. We came to spring training with 6 mil left to spend. Schuerholz pursued Baez in the offseason but let him go to the Dodgers for that 4 mil. Now, we had to give up Wilson to get a guy we could have already had. The difference now is that he has had Reitsma like success in holding leads. Perhaps the biggest issue is that it’s a real possibility that we traded Wilson for a guy who will be gone at the end of the year and we didn’t make the playoffs anyway!

After watching the starting rotation lately, do you feel even if the bullpen solidifies we have enough starting pitching not to put the team in a hole in half the starts before even getting to the pen?

We have a 3rd baseman who is going to be a 120 game a year player for the rest of his career more than likely. He’s breaking down. It’s a different ailment every few months. He’s a great player but he’s not going to be there 40 games a year.

You were paying $300,000 for a guy who filled his shoes very well or at least as well as anyone in a similar situation could. There is no possible upgrade as a backup to Chipper out there!!!

Aybar isn’t Betemit.

Hey I know…. Schuerholz is God! If he made the trade it has to be great!!

Ok…. I’m happy… because I know that under all this Horses!!t there has to be a Pony!!!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

Well, I tell you guys what. I think Giles is gone whether Chipper goes on the DL or not because the Braves will bring up Prado and I still say Jeff Conine or Todd Walker will be a Brave by Monday afternoon. No matter what the naysayers on this blog say Giles has value and someone will take him especially if he is packaged right.

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Donde esta DOB?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

Glass Half Full, you’re right. In a way it really doesn’t matter if Baez or Wickman re-sign or not. Lets not forget that part of the reason the bullpen was in the pickle it was was because we lost both Boyer and Foster for the year and Devine as well more or less.

Krath, in fairness to JS. The reason he didn’t trade Baez and either Lugo or Gaithright was because the Rays wanted Davies, Langerhans, AND McCann. The Braves said no way and offered Bryan Pena. The Rays said it was McCann or the deal was off. So, it never took place. The Braves even offered Estrada and the Rays were insistent on McCann. So, let me ask you the question. Would getting Baez been worth giving up McCann?

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

I think JS will make an effort to resign one of them (probably Baez since he’s younger and had 41 saves last year) because surely he won’t be bit by the bullpen bug for 3 seasons in a row. You need at least 2 millionaires in your bullpen.

By krath

July 29, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Robert, you are right. I’m a little steamed because I don’t see the logic of this trade.

At any rate, the other facts still remain that we moved the best Chipper insurance policy (and cheap) for someone with Reitsma like success. His numbers aren’t as bad as Reitsma’s but his results weren’t much better. I think the kicker is that I think it’s perhaps for nothing. If we don’t make the wildcard it is definitely for nothing. Offseason moves could be made to address the bullpen that might not have included Betemit. There WILL be mid level bullpen free agents.

Schuerholz has been great, but I don’t think he shone in this trade. I would have rather stood pat than make this trade.

If Hudson could pitch like he did a couple of years ago. If Horatio didn’t pitch like he did last year. If Chuck James could pitch like he did against Tampa Bay. If Thompson could pitch like he did for two weeks at the seasons start lol If Davies comes back and pitches better than his over 6 era suggests. If……. Get my drift? Too many holes to expect to win the WC. Can they win the wildcard?? (read above)

I think there are too many holes to fill to make a real run this year. Chipper may not even return to form this year. Our starting rotation is a shambles!

When the smoke clears after the season it could be, No Wilson, No Baez, a mediocre Aybar.

We gave too much…end of story.

Ok….. gonna go stew a while.

By Head Coach

July 29, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

McCann for Baez , would you like to locked up in the funny farm ,lol. No for real , this is not my opinion. We just lost both our third basemen , picked up a middle reliever and a prospect. We still dont have a leadoff hitter and the rotation is hobbled by injury and inconsistency. Watching the game last night when Chipper went down with his latest injury and seeing the look on the face of John Schuerholz was just classic now that we know he had already pulled the trigger on this trade. He was regretting trading Betemit and it was written all over his face.

By krath

July 29, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

Head Coach….. I saw the same thing you did. Except I told my wife, “Schuerholz is in pain…. now he can’t afford to trade Betemit!!” LOL It was worse than I thought!

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

You guys got it all wrong. JS was just trying to squeeze out a silent but deadly fart when the camera found him.

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Can’t wait for the next Sunday night Braves game. How will Miller and Morgan pronounce Aybar?

By krath

July 29, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

LOL GHF. Shame that fart wasn’t the only “stinker” he pulled yesterday.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

There must, MUST, be more to come. We got money in the deal. And on that note, I think the deal was pretty good. We received two players and cash for a back up infielder. WillyB is good though. But that is more than San Diego was talking and more then New York could offer. Now, having the cash in the deal and the cash on hand means we have the ability to add another part, even an expensive part. I certainly hope we get something right and worth it. Something that will be around for a while and kick @ss.

After the past few seasons, I have seriously begun to miss quality, Cy Young level pitching. Our starters this year, save Smotlz and possibly James, have been down right depressing. Especially Hudson. The aquisition of Hudson, I thought, was going to be Maddux move. What a let down.

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

Coach, the nice thing about numbers is that they don’t talk too much and aren’t overly particular about whose math it is with which they associate … so long as they call the same base home.

Three things I know for sure … (1) If my team wins all 162 of it’s games, it will be crowned Divisional Champion , (2) It it wins more games than any other team that fails to win a Division, it will win the Wild Card and (3) if we do make the Playoffs and win our last game, we’ll be fine, regardless of how many games we lose!

I carefully left a gaping hole in the other post’s argument, just to see if you were wide awake and would catch me … what I described really doesn’t doesn’t guarantee victory at all because it doesn’t consider the teams currently behind the Braves in the Wild Card race … to be assured of victory, we would have to make sure that none of them sneaked by when we weren’t watching … but the math would be the same.

I’m too old to try to learn your math … you use big numbers like 88 and 92 while with mine, I’m only really only concerned with little numbers running from 1 to 6 … much easier for me to work with those.

Your system might make better sense but I like mine better for one good reason … yours tells you that we don’t have a much of chance and mine tells me that we do!

Take care my friend and remember it’s only the destiny of the free world that’s at stake here … we’re still America’s team throughout the world … including some parts of China where they play baseball in the morning.

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

Yeah, had the camera stayed on JS for a minute longer you would’ve seen people waving the air frantically and bailing out of the room while JS laughed and gave Frank Wren a high five.

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

Coach, me thinks your 11:56 post may have knocked the peg in the hole! Not much math in that equation with which one can definitively argue.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

Where’s DOB? HIs absence and silence is quite bothersome. He has to have some sort of opinion on this mess. He has to confirm my belief or hope that Baez is nothing more than a pawn to get something bigger and better. The guy has closer stuff and success but he is not worth what we gave up. DOB, where are you?

Tell me I’m right. Tell me a huge earth shatering deal is in the works and JS is simply bluffing us all.

By krath

July 29, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Robert, I’m not saying there isn’t more on the way but I have to believe this deal is a stand alone deal. I think we are keeping Baez and Aybar. What the Dodgers do with Betemit doesn’t concern me unless they make a straight up deal that is much better than the one we got from them. But I think he is what they needed and we got…… well we got what we got.

By dadgum

July 29, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

So now all you bloggers are starting to see the real reason teh Braves are in this mess….STARTING PITCHING!! JS is ready to make a huge huge trade. Stay tuned it should happen today or no later than Monday night I just feel it. The BIG ONE is coming in the way of a starting pitcher. If not the Braves will never have a shot at the playoffs because check the numbers we have the worst starting pitching in our division save the Nationals and without checking them that could be a push.

“When you are up to your a*s in alligators it is hard to remember that the initial objective is to drain the swamp”.

By krath

July 29, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

Robert, DOB may be drinking heavily right now. The trade may have made him speechless as well! lol

By Boomer

July 29, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

I like the trade.

The Braves were trading from a position of strength. Besides Abyar they have several young infielders that can fill Betemit’s spot (Elvis Andrus for one). Betemit was never going to be a good second baseman (too big) and he was not going to replace Chipper at third exept to fill in.

If Baez gives us one solid outing the rest of the year it will be more that Sosa would give us.

Aybar is a switchhitting infielder with power and speed. He is also supposed to be a good defensive player. At 23 he is younger than Betemit. I wonder if he can lead off while he fills in for Chipper so we can move Giles down in the order?

I remember how attached eveyone got to Green, Chucky T, etc… It was the supposed to be the end of the world when we traded them. We will be able to fill Betemit’s spot.

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

One last question before I leave it with the daytime crowd …

As I understand it … we traded a $300,000 annualized expense for about $4,400,000 in annualized expenses. We gave up Betiment and got Aybar, Baez and some cash to offset some of the expense … how much of an offset (annualized, if possible, so as to be comparable) is expected?

I really just want to know an estimate of the expected net change in expense, annualized or otherwise. We know what we gave up and have an idea of what we got … I’d just like to have an idea of how much we are paying for the privilege.

By krath

July 29, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Comparing Baez to Sosa for “one good outing”, I don’t get that. If Baez gives the Braves 10 good outings and we miss the playoffs and Baez walks…. was it worth it? I dont think so.

On the contrary about Aybar… he’s not supposed to be a great glove by any means, at least that isn’t his rep when he’s played this year.

By Shawn B

July 29, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

WOW I think DOB is in complete shock, or he just doesn’t want to get involved in this raging debate.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

I just saw the lineup for today. Why in the hell is Pete Orr playing 3rd. Why did we trade for Aybar. He has had time to get to Atlanta. He should be playing 3rd and leading off. Man, Bobby frustrates me!

DOB, where are you? Make sense of all this. You have the inside info. Tell us what is going on? We are all dying out here.

By Marc

July 29, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

First of all, the trade was not bad. I read the Dodgers are paying all of the remaining salary for Baez. The guy has pitched well before, and he throws hard, something the Braves bullpen lacks. As for Aybar, he is 23, with good speed, he will do fine for now in a backup role. JS went out and got two closers, and a promising prospect, who is major league ready, for a low catching prospect, (who was never going to see the big leagues for Atlanta), and Betemit, who was never going to start, no matter how many of us wanted him to. I liked Betemit, but realistically, you have to give up something to get something, and JS traded from his surplus. I now think the lineup is pretty good, and the bullpen with Ray, Yates, Paronto, Baez, and Wickman is pretty strong.

My problem has always been the rotation, this is why I don’t think the Braves will get the wildcard. You have no fifth starter, Thomson is always injured, Davies did not pitch well before he was injured, and Schiell is not good. You have James who has looked good, but is inconsistent, young, and gives up a ton of homeruns, and throws soft. You have Ramirez who still can’t settle himself down for a big game, he is wild and inconsistent, you have Hudson who has stunk, and you have Smoltz who is pushing 40, and has shown cracks. So I ask DOB or anyone, if JS doesn’t go out and get a quality starter, how can they win the wildcard, and win in the playoffs with possibly the worst rotation in the wildcard hunt. JS needs to get a starter, not a leadoff hitter, and I am not so sure he needed to get more bullpen help. The Braves got 4 runs in the 1st against Pedro, Ramirez gives up 5 in 5 innings, that is why the Braves lost, the bullpen looked good.

By Boomer

July 29, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Krath,

I agree if Baez walks at the end of the season, and we don’t make the playoffs, it would not be good to have traded Betemit for Aybar straigt up. However, if Baez does give us some good outings it will improve our chances of making the playoffs this year. He does upgrade our bullpen.

We can replace Betemit as a backup because that is all he would have been with the Braves. We have some outstanding young infielders that are ready to prove their worth.

Obviously if Chipper does not come back strong the rest of the season we are not going to make the playoffs whether we have Betemit or not.

Every fan seems to get attached to their own players and elevate them in status. Let’s give Aybar a chance and see what he can do.

J.S. would not have made this trade if he had known Chipper was going to be out for an extended time. But with Chipper and Baez we have a better chance this year in my opinion.

By Mikey

July 29, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon ladies. Great start once again by the bravos. Showing alot of heart out there, great to see. It must be really hot on that field, I think it would be in everyones best interests to just forfeit this game before it becomes more of a joke than it really is.

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Betemit would likely have been traded in the offseason anyway, and even if he was on the roster in 2007 he would still be a bench guy.

By Tonight on TBS

July 29, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

The Sting (1973)

Two L.A. con men, Colletti and Little, weave a complex scheme to defraud big shot gambler Scheurholz, who is too clever for his own good, of his betemit. (Not for children).

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

From the LA papers: “The Dodgers will pick up the remaining $1.5 million left on Baez’s $4 million contract this season.” Sounds like Baez is free.

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

I guess that means we still have $4 million to play with.

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Ooops…should have read Marc’s earlier post and I would’ve known about Baez’s contract.

By Mikey

July 29, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

Time to warm up the bullpen Bravos

By Vol

July 29, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Can we use the $4 mill on a starter? Hud is getting shelled AGAIN.

I agree with some of the posts that we had beeter get a starter in here. Even if we sqeak into the playoffs, the good pitchers will not give up 10 runs to us, and I don’t think Smoltz can pitch all seven games every series.

By YAD

July 29, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Hudson is getting lit up again. Trade for a fifth starter? How about trading for a #2, seeing as how the Braves currently lack one.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Hudson sucks. I don’t know what’s wrong but this crap can’t continue. We need a starter.

By MEB

July 29, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

Marc… I agree completely with your observations. I’m not as down about this trade as I was when it was first announced. Listening to Lou Pinella on the FOX broadcast comment on Baez and he is very high on him.

Maybe JS is not done with the wheeling and dealing.

By Vol

July 29, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Yes - Marcus drives in two! Now that we know Betemit isn’t going to be there, we can all root for Giles.

That was a big hit.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Afternoon, folks. Not in shock, just been incredibly busy since about 10:45 p.m. last night.

Couple of things: Chipper is going on DL tomorrow. Only reason he’s not on it today is because Aybar and Baez couldn’t get here for the game; they’ll arrive tonight. They had a night game last night and couldn’t do everything and catch a flight in time for today’s game.

Dodgers are paying part of the $1.5 mill that Baez is still owed, but not all of it, contrary to some reports.

Without getting into all the details of it, I think it’s a trade that makes sense for the Braves. It was already a done deal before Chipper got hurt, of course, and they couldn’t have reneged on it at that point, even if they wanted to (and they didn’t want to).

Trade has to be evaluated considering all parts of the situation. While I would have preferred Linebrink over Baez, fact of the matter is, San Diego didn’t want to part with him for BEtemit, and anyway, Braves still would’ve needed to make another deal to get a utility guy to replace Betemit after dealing him.

This Dodgers deal is the one trade that was able to bring them both parts in one move. And Aybar, from what I’m told, has a much higher ceiling than Betemit and could compete for an every-day job at 2B or 3B in future, maybe even compete for 2B next season.

One huge thing for everyone to get clear on: Betemit absolutely was NOT a 2B candidate in the Braves’ eyes. They put a premium on up-the-middle defense, always have, and they didn’t think Betemit is a premium defnsive second baseman (because he’s not).

This doesn’t signal whatsoever that Giles will be back next year, as I heard some uninformed weekend-host types on a local radio station saying this morning. Giles is almost certainly going to be traded this winter because he’ll make more than $5 mill next year and because the Braves have prospects lined up, a couple of them ready to compete now, including Martin Prado, for the second base job along with Aybar.

As Schuerholz made it clear in his post-trade quote, Brave have their 3B (Chipper) and SS (Edgar) for the next couple of years. Argue all you want about how Chipper should go to 1B, but if Braves aren’t talking about doing it, then what’s the point of debating it. Not going to happen, near as I can tell, anytime in the forseeable future. Especially now that LaRoche is playing like a guy they’ll keep next season, when he’s still going to be very affordable in first year of arbitration. Very, very affordable for a guy who will hit 30 or more homers and play excellent defense.

Betemit was going to be a utility guy if he stayed with Braves. So they traded a utility guy for a potential lights-out setup guy and an infielder with more upside potential than Betemit.

By YAD

July 29, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Mets 3 Braves, Wright, Reyes 3

Nice adjustment to the pitch, Marcus. It’s too bad Andruw can’t or won’t do that.

By geauxbraves2000

July 29, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

WTG Giles!

By Tomahawkin

July 29, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

I Told you guys when we got home to a pitchers ballpark the hitting would stop, and go into a power outage…

Damn It Chipper to the DL, Now were going to have to watch Pete Orr start for the next 10 days…This is gonna be a long 10 days watching Orr at third…

By Conan O'Brien

July 29, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

WHY THE F*** DID WE TRADE BETEMIT?

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

These Mets play sloppy. Real sloppy. Keep it up Mets. Just coast into the post season… it’s the way to do it. Listen to the talking heads… rest your big guys. Keep them out of the line up towards the end of the season. It keeps them sharp.

Wish we had nailed Pedro in the hip yesterday. I like it though. Hudson isn’t on his game, so he takes out a player. Filthy, filthy Mets.

By Conan O'Brien

July 29, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

FUCK I LOVED BETEMIT!!!

By Vol

July 29, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

Any thoughts on the likelihood of resigning Baez next year? Was that discussed, or will they just wait and see what happens?

Any chance we land a starter or a bat in LF? The lineup all of a sudden doesn’t look that great with Betemit out and Orr in there (for 15 days!!!).

By geauxbraves2000

July 29, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

When was the last time AJ put the ball in play?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, who is going to get called up since Chipper is going on the DL?

By Tomahawkin

July 29, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Bring up Prado, and Sent Orr down, It doesn’t take a Rocket…Un A Rocketship to see that Orr ain’t going to cut it 4 da next 2 weeks

By geauxbraves2000

July 29, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin, Aybar will more than likely take over at 3rd with Chipper on the DL.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

So, what’s the 411, DOB? Who gets called up or is another guy on his way to Atlanta via trade. The way I am figuring with Dodgers paying part of Baez’s salary the Braves have about 3 mil to work with. That could be enough to get another bat and a starter. So, who’s on their way here?

By Conan O'Brien

July 29, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

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By mariner

July 29, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

I don’t get the game on tv. did something happen to delgado?

By Don

July 29, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

Aybar has more upside than Betemit, but the Dodgers not only traded Aybar and Baez for Betemit, they picked up a chunk of Baez’s overpriced salary? I guess that makes the Dodgers management incredibly stupid. Please DOB, give me a break. That’s just ridiculous.

An emphasis on up the middle defense made sense back in the days when the Braves had a pitching staff with guys like Maddux and Glavine who induced a lot of ground balls. The present pitching staff is more oriented to walks, gappers and gopher balls.

Chipper’s now down again for at least 2 weeks and we’re going to plug in a .250 hitter with 3 home runs to fill his spot because Betemit is gone. Never mind that Betemit scored 10 runs and had 10 hits in 4 consecutive games on the road trip, the guy had no upside. Look at how the Braves struggled with him in the leadoff spot.

Another 2 month rental for a team that is an extreme long shot to win the wild card. Now we can go into this offseason trying to scrape together a bullpen with no budget. The good news is that as bad as the starting pitching has been the quality of the bullpen may be irrelevant.

By Chop Chop

July 29, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

Yeah, geaux. Aybar will play third base, but the Braves will still need to call up someone to take Chipper’s roster spot. I would guess that Prado would be the guy.

Also, if Jorge Sosa is still on this team after this game, I will be shocked. Baez should take his spot.

By MEB

July 29, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Conan… why don’t you just go away!

I’m glad Andruw’s lackadaisical play didn’t cost us a run. Adam Larouche was BBQ’d for gaff.

By geauxbraves2000

July 29, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Mariner, Delgado was hit by a pitch and forced to leave the game. I’m not sure exactly where he was hit, I think it was on the leg somewhere.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 29, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

as this journalist reported earlier, “p” player pete orr is stationed at third base today in chipper’s absence. orr is currently batting .198, but he is fast. “p” player pratt is ready to come in as a pinch hitter or runner as deemed necessary by bobby cox. journalist does not understand the personnel moves but reminds bobby cox that prado, t. pena, b. pena, and pavarotti remain available though pavarotti has oblique issues.

By YAD

July 29, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Here is a thought: Let the recently traded players actually PLAY before determining whether the trade was good or bad.

By geauxbraves2000

July 29, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, it is th 6th inning, time for Hudson to hit the wall, and he’s hitting it hard. It’s time to send him back to the AL, he’s not getting any better.

By Vol

July 29, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Chavez and Hernandez with back to back 2-RBI singles. Groan.

By Mikey

July 29, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Hey Tennesse Paula, hows it looking so far? Orlando Hernandez OWNS Tim Hudson. Get your brooms ready for tommorow, the Mets will be sweeping up some trash called the Braves

By brian

July 29, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

What a joke of a game today. Braves need to put Hudson on the market while he has value. Boston or the Chicago White Sox will be interested. If we could pick up Lester or McCarthy we will be set for the future with Davies, James, and Lester/McCarty, and we won’t be any worse off this year. Hudson cannot get through 6 innings. When was the last time he had a quality start? Hudson needs a change of scenery now before he loses all value. I would love it even more if the Braves traded away Hudson and then in a second deal acquired Willis. Of course I would love it if the Braves were in first as well. Too bad the Braves cannot get the Schmidt offer from the White Sox - McCarthy and Brian Anderson for Hudson.

DOB - where do you get this high ceiling for Aybar? Everything on sportsline said that he is solid but WITHOUT the high ceiling.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 29, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

is bobby cox at today’s game? the lead is 4 runs and hudson continues to struggle.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 29, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

oh, the humanity!

By geauxbraves2000

July 29, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

Okay children, what have we learned today? Well, for the 3rd start in a row, the Braves have found out their supposed #1 or #2 starter is pitching like a #7 starter and that he cannot make it past the 6th inning anymore. So that means, with a 5 man pitching staff the Braves are guaranteed no wins. The bullpen blows all of Smoltz’s lead and you never know who is going to show up for the other four starts.

By Mikey

July 29, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

Great pitching change! In addition to El Duque owning Tim Hudson apparantly Carlos Beltran owns the whole Braves organization. Theres no shame in just quitting now bravos. It will save alot of wasted effort.

By Sammy Kershaw

July 29, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

TIM HUDSON BLOWS anyone that argues Hudson has blown since his arrival is lieing to themselves.

Mark it down. Hudson is quickly approaching untradeable Mike Hampton status

By YAD

July 29, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

Sad, isn’t it.

.500 is the only attainable goal from now until the end of the season. Without pitchers who refuse to fold under pressure (the Braves have one) then there is no chance to have a winning record.

I have an idea … let’s change the team nickname to “Rockies”.

By Mikey

July 29, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

OK im going to be away for a while but when I get back I expect some answers for this disgraceful effort being put forward by the bravos. Especially from you TennessePaula. For shame

By Carolina Lady

July 29, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

Baby Seal and I are going out in the backyard and play catch for a while.

By Lew

July 29, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

One thing I haven’t heard comments on-what was the Braves’ real opinion of Betemit. Stop and think about when Chipper was injured earlier in the season. BC said it was time to play Betemit and spell Giles, Renteria and Chipper. Is it possible that sdomething happened to put him in the dog house? Did they know something that convinced them he would never make it as a full time player. Enquiring minds want to know. Something definitely was going on. What exactly was Betemit’s downside. According to the experts there must have been a down side. JS iss usually so adept at making trades, it all makes me wonder. Because of his track record, I’m going to give JS the benegit of the doubt. Geauxbraves, you are absolutely right. What in the world has happened to our starters? They should not be this bad.

By Justin

July 29, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

i think its time to face the facts that we want make the playoffs unless we score 10 runs every game. We fixed our bullpen but know the problem is the starting pitching. Im so f******* pissed off at tim hudson he is so f******* horrible. We need to trade him know. Then fire are sorry a*s pitching coach. This is so embarrising watching us get are asses beat by the mets.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 29, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

ah, yes, sosa. this should teach the mets a lesson. two strikeouts already. now, a walk. will he get the pitcher?

looks like the braves starters have saved their best for the mets.

By Andy

July 29, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

this year the mets seem like the braves and the braves seem like the mets—I am saying when the braves and mets went to head to head games the mets became head cases—it seems the braves are the nervous ones—not doing the little things that wins games—I am not saying its over—but it does not look good. so sad. got get back up—at least make sat game alittle closer and have to win Sunday. If the braves don’t make a stand in cincy I am not sure how much longer the braves can hold out hope.

By Tonight on TBS

July 29, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Comedy Special: Jorge Sosa Farewell Tour

Last chance to catch this hilarious act. Includes testimonials by fellow funnymen John Smoltz and Bobby Cox. Special appearance by Tim Hudson (early in the show; he won’t be around for the second half of the program).

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Lets face it, people. This ride is over. Call up the kids and let them play out the string. Aybar and Escobar get some time at 3rd. Prado at 2nd. This team can’t get into the playoffs. We will get swept by the Mets. No way are winning tomorrow against Glavine.

Our #1 starter is pitching like an AAA call up. Our other #1 starter is really a #2. Our #3 starter pitches like a #5. Our #4 starter is really a #5 starter who is actually put out some effort. Our #5 starter is the AAA call up of the week. Our offesne is frustrated because the pitching sucks. The bullpen has gotten its act together but whats the point since they have to be overused because the starters can’t get outs.

This is not a playoff team. I think maybe its time to entertain offers for Andruw and Smoltz and be done with this. I would rather see a team with mostly AAA talent play than a team with major league talent play like a AAA team.

This is absolutely pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By giles

July 29, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

sorry guys, the steriods i use to take aren’t working anymore. Thus I suck and I can’t give Hudson his either. We both suck

By Don

July 29, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Time to offer Tim Hudson to anybody who will pick up his contract. When the Braves budget only allows them to pay big salaries to 5 or 6 players, they can’t get away with one of them being a total dog. I’d take nothing for him just to get rid of the contract.

By Vol

July 29, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

I’m willing to wait and see how the trade works out, but a little rough seeing a .195 guy in the 8 hole when Betemit would have been batting 3rd and providing a legit threat. Can’t say it wasn’t foreseeable that Chipper would land on the DL.

Don’t want to overreact, but it sure seems like we need to make another move or two after the last couple of days.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 29, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

“p” player pete orr is now hitting .195. where will he be after a week’s play? is this new 3b on the way? is prado alive and well? pavarotti, pehaps?

By Don

July 29, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

Quote of the day from Lou Piniella on the Fox broadcast, about Jorge Sosa:

“They tried him as closer but it didn’t quite work out.”

By dadgum

July 29, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

I don’t care what the new Braves bring to the table….see my earlier posts, listen to Smoltz’s comments on National TV today and take into account what you are watching today from Hudson. This is not a one game knee jerk reaction. Save a few games here and there all of our starters are sucking wind with no relief in sight.

Better start getting some players together in a big package to lure somebody that brings some starting pitching to this team. Trust me there is nobody at Richmond that will ever help. They aren’t ready further down on the farm ditto obviously any talent drafted. Smoltz has age issues but is still great. After that nobody that you can count on to win 15 games.

If JS doesn’t get a starting front line pitcher prior to MOnday this Braves team has absolutely no chance and I predict they will fall 10+ games out in the wild card and out of it. Again I am not talking about trading for just any starter and alas there may not be anyone available. We would then have to wait out the year and work the off season deals.

Finally, nice to have home baked scorers. Giles had a pure error that helped chase Hudson. No way that wasn’t an error. He never laid out and was there and it went right over his glove. That was Little League and ditto Andrew allowing the single to turn into a double. If I was Cox I would have chewed both of their asses out when they got in.

The Braves are in trouble and they have given up in today’s game. Giles is a slcker and Jones today. Who will rise up to win the slacker award next game? Let’s not sugarcoat this, the Braves are flat embarassing themselves on national tv. Don’t be surprised to see JS turn into a seller instead of a buyer if he can’t get a starting pitcher. We’ll see.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

I totally agree about Hudson. JS should put out feelers right now for Hudson and see who would take him. We need another starter and any starter would do. Anything would be better than what Hudson is giving us. The rotation is like the bullpen. If the #1 starter sucks then the rest of the rotation is affected just like if you don’t have a closer then the rest of the pen suffers. Can anyone honestly tell me that Tony Armas would be worse then this crap we have in Hudson. At this point I say eat the insurance money and get Hampton on the mound. Truth is he is ready the Braves just don’t want to activate him because if they do the insuranc won’t pay for the salary.

Hudson isn’t struggling. This struggling has been going all year. Giles, Chipper, Francoeur, and LaRoche were all struggling but came out of it. Hudson has done nothing but get blown up in now his 3rd straight game. Enough is enough!

By Don

July 29, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Where’s Upside Aybar hitting in the order tomorrow? Betemit was hitting 3rd when he filled in for Chipper, so I assume Upside and his .250 batting average with 3 home runs will also hit 3rd.

By justin

July 29, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

Why in the hell do we still have orr. He sucks he does nothing to help the team. He cant hit worth a s**t. All he can do is run, he should be in AAA right know. who didnt know that he would go 0-4 in todays game, he sucks.

By Joe

July 29, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

I say we get Phil Niekro back. You’re never to old to throw a knuckleball.

By MIKEY

July 29, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

OK Bravos all you need to do is get 7 runners on base so that the tying run can get to the plate.

By Moe

July 29, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

I’m with you Joe. Let’s bring back some of the old guys. I bet Ralph Garr is still faster than anyone on the team right now.

By MIKEY

July 29, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

Great job braves. They played very well tonight. How many games back is that? Well lets look at the bright side, they are only single digits behind the Marlins.

By MIKEY

July 29, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

Hey could someone go tell Brian Giles that the bravos are only 1 game behind the marlins. Unfortunately they are 13 behind their Masters: The Mets. When is that issue with the 2006 Braves on the cover of SI coming out?

By YAD

July 29, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

I hear Bob Horner is available to fill in at third base while Chipper is on the DL.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Our only hope is that the Brewers beat the Reds tonight and tomorrow and we can get back on track against the Pirates.

By Moe

July 29, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

MIKEY?

Aren’t you the former child star in that cereal commercial who went on to become a crackhead?

By Shawn B

July 29, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

DOB— Just teasing you about being in shock, I imagine you have been quite busy after what happened last night along with the Mets being in town for what the Braves were hoping would be a big series. Now….errrr….Let’s get that Wild Card spot!!!

As far as Chipper going on the DL, who is going to be playing everyday at 3B? I am assuming Aybar and Orr are going to share it, but I am hoping that their is another option being considered, like maybe bringing Prato up while Chipper is down. And I sure hope that another starting pitcher will arrive before Monday’s deadline, who would have thought two weeks ago, that at this point the bullpen would be looking far better than the starting rotation.

By Joe

July 29, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

I don’t think we should bring up Prado. The devil wears Prado! Bring up Lemke. Lemke I say!

By JL Lemke, PHD

July 29, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

Postmodernism argues that what we call knowledge is a special kind of story, a text or discourse that puts together words and images in ways that seem pleasing or useful to a particular culture (i.e. Braves culture), or even just to some relatively powerful members of that culture (e.g. DOB, journalist Jimmy Smith). It denies that we can have objective knowledge, because what we call knowledge has to be made with the linguistic and other meaning-making resources of a particular culture, and different cultures can see the world in very different ways, all of which “work” in their own terms. It argues that the belief that one particular culture’s view of the world is also universally “true” was a convenient assumption, but has no firm intellectual basis.

What MIKEY is trying to say is that we are now living the post-Madduxian paradigm: the golden days of Braves baseball are over and we must strive to find meaning in world that is now seemingly devoid of meaning. No utility infielder or mediocre setup man can change that.

By MIKEY

July 29, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

Moe that was as corny as that little video your team showwed before wagner came out to shut the door on your first of what will be three staright losses last night. The only crackhead were those people who thought the bravos would catch the mets this year. Probably you were one of those imbeciles.

By mariner

July 29, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

I hope JS turns into a seller and quick. I’d like t see the fcus shift t next year. And I never thught I’d say this, but I’d like t see Smoltz get traded. To the Tigers. His value is still very high and the Tigers have a real shot at the WS title, better with Smoltz I think, something to root for in October. I think we should follow the Marlins model of rebuilding.

By Moe

July 29, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

Lemke - so what you are saying is that, from a post-modern perspective, the Met paradigm is now ascendant and the Braves paradigm is descendant - but both are equally valid since objective knowledge is illusory.

But how about the Betemit trade?

By JL Lemke

July 29, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

Moe - please refer to my paper: Topological Semiosis and the Evolution of Meaning (1998)

In it I discuss the Alternation Principle. There, I point out that (within a closed system, or culture) we do not recognize new levels of organization if there is only LOCAL re-organization of one gradience to another (as opposed to GLOBAL re-organization).

The Betemit trade, involving a utility infielder, is an example of a LOCAL re-organization, hence not very important, and will ultimately not be recognized or remembered. A GLOBAL reorganization would involve starting pitchers or perhaps a management change. That would be impactful and very recognizable.

I hope that helps.

By Head Coach

July 29, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

I was going to wait until April 1st to say this but there is no need to wait any longer. Folks , its over and I mean it is OVER. This team is not and never has been playoff material , the beginning of july provided a ray of hope but with 59 games left there is no way in hell they can win 40 more , hell , they cant win 35 out of 59. The starting pitching is in shambles , we just lost both third basemen , we never did have a leadoff hitter and Wickman is to little to late. They offense is full of holes , they strikeout way too much , cant run , cant play small ball , cant steal bases. Basically , if they dont hit three or four homeruns a game they are toast. Smoltz is the only reliable starter. They are done , stick a fork in them , they are meat. No wildcard team has ever made the playoffs with anything less than 88 wins and no major league team over the last 106 seasons has made the playoffs with anything less than 82 wins. THEY ARE DONE !!!!! ITS OVER , ADMIT IT ALREADY !!!!

By Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

July 29, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

Coach:

Seems like you are past denial, but I cannot tell if you are angry or depressed. Strive for acceptance of the Braves loss (game and season).

If one does not take the time to grieve, one cannot find a future in which loss is remembered and honored without pain.

By tigger101023

July 29, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t be so concerned if Aybar hadn’t been sent to the bench for awful 3B defense. That’s why Izturis was a the hot corner. Although, he supposely has a better defensive reputation in the minors than he showed in LAD. If he can’t play 2B, then the trade is more likely to be a dud. Maybe he can work with Glenn Hubbard on his defense.

But he seems to have a great eye - with all our hacktastic hitters, some patience is always welcome in my book.

By Bigboi

July 29, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this

One thing I know is that Sosa looked awfully good today. With Sosa, Baez, and our new closer,it makes for a heck of a bullpen and our starters now will only have to go 7 innings. We still have a shot folks!!!! Keep the faith!!!!!!

By Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

July 29, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

Bigboi - sounds like denial to me. Looks like you have some grief-work ahead of you. The longer you are in denial, the more pain you will have to suffer through.

Bless you. Bless the Braves and all brave Brave fans. And most of all, bless DOB. (Imagine being in the Brave lockerroom right now!).

By krath

July 29, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

I saw something disturbing, unless we’re giving up and seeing what we have for next year, and that is Aybar doesn’t DO shortstop. Wilson could play short, 3rd and second. Pete Orr plays 3rd and 2nd. So we bring Aybar in and now we have to reserve another roster spot for Pena or someone to play short? Is that right? Am I missing something?

By dadgum

July 29, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

I would tell Andruw and Marcus that they are sitting tomorrow’s game. What they did today was embarassing. When you are getting paid millions throw the damn ball in instead of soft tosing it. Man that burns the hell out of me. Ditto Giles that was a slackass effort on his part to get to an average hit ball to his glove side no less. I know that both these players are top notch defensively but every once in a while you have to make a stand as manager and say I won’t tolerate that slack effort even if it means putting your team in a hole for a game.

I am waiting for the big trade as mentioned earlier and if it doesn’t come in spades this team is done and the off season is going to bring big surprises. Folks I am afraid we are going to be sellers. Look out.

By Conan O'Brien

July 29, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

FUC*K

By Head Coach

July 29, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

No M’am , no more denial ……. I’m just angry at management for putting up this false pretense in front of all the fans. If Schuerholz doesnt know he was supposed to be a seller he needs to resign his position and let somebody(anybody) with some integrity run this team. David O’Brien I luv your blogs and dedication to the fans and I know its not fun to be in the clubhouse witnessing this meltdown of such a proud franchise. I actually was hoping to see Schuerholz start the rebuilding process we have seen in Florida and Detroit , but apparently he is still in denial.

By dadgum

July 29, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

I would tell Andruw and Marcus that they are sitting tomorrow’s game. What they did today was embarassing. When you are getting paid millions throw the damn ball in instead of soft tosing it. Man that burns the hell out of me. Ditto Giles that was a slackass effort on his part to get to an average hit ball to his glove side no less. I know that both these players are top notch defensively but every once in a while you have to make a stand as manager and say I won’t tolerate that slack effort even if it means putting your team in a hole for a game.

I am waiting for the big trade as mentioned earlier and if it doesn’t come in spades this team is done and the off season is going to bring big surprises. Folks I am afraid we are going to be sellers. Look out.

By dadgum

July 29, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

CONAN GET OFF THIS BLOG!!! You are worthless dude and add nothing here.

By MIKEY

July 29, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

Giles and Andrew were talking tough. I wonder if they have anything to say after today?

By Fred

July 29, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this

Hudson is a steaming dog turd. We should try to trade him now and get at least something for him, then we can call up a rookie who really can be no worse than Hudson has been.

By Plate O' Meat

July 29, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

Believe me, mariner, Smoltz wants that trade to Detroit just as bad as you do…..he’s just too nice of a guy to ask for it, although even nice guys can boil over eventually. I think it’s definitely coming!

By Lew

July 29, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

Head Coach. Believe it or not, I actually agree with you. Too many holes exist to be successfully filled at this late date. I still don’t think Smoltz or Andruw will be traded, but Giles and Hudson need to go for whatever we can get. Their salary savings can help big time in the offseason. I don’t know if Baez will sign for next year or not. Apparently he won’t cost much this year. Maybe he is bait for a three party deal. Damned if I can figure this one out and I’m really not the uninformed moron Head Coach usually seems to think I am. I think Betemit really did something to p##s off some Braves honcho. I can’t think of another reason he got so little respect.

By JL Lemke, PHD

July 29, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

Dadgum - ineresting comments. So, by “big trade”, you are waiting for a GLOBAL shift of gradience (within the closed systems that is “the Braves”.

Obviously, such shifts or changes are not measured in “spades”. But that does bring up the interesting question of what unit of measurement is appropriate for shifts or changes as not all such shifts are of the same magnitude.

Perhaps that will be the subject of my next paper. Can I reference you?

By MIKEY

July 29, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

braves suck by the way

By JasonInMaine

July 29, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

I just heard on ESPNNews that the Red Sox are willing to deal both Loretta and Crisp for a pitcher. They are getting to the point of desperation and really, really want a starter. I think JS should either get involved in a 3-way trade or offer Hudson. We could get Crisp (not playing great this year, but still batting .275) and put in him in LF and let him leadoff. The Sox would also probably include one of their pitching prospects. While they certainly wouldn’t consider Lester, they may consider DelCarmen, Bucholz, Hansen, or another one of their top pitching prospects. I would be looking to trade Hudson in a heartbeat. I know his value isn’t as high as in the past, but if we could get Crisp, a prospect, and unload his salary; I would do it in a HEARTBEAT.

Regards,

Jason

By Mr. Met

July 29, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Good Luck to the Braves this weekend, this should be an entertaining series.

By Mr. Met

July 29, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

Ha ha ha ha the Braves SUCK! LET’S GO METS!!!

By berigan

July 29, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m glad you have heard that there is a greater upside on Willy Aybar than Wilson Betemit, cuz I sure haven’t read that….Anyone not with the braves saying this?? Time will tell. He will be the 3rd basemen for the next 2 weeks. Wilson Betemit had 9 Homers, and 29 RBI’s in 199 AB’s. He would easily have 20-25 HR’s and 80-90 RBI’s over a full season. If we can’t trade Giles now, why would we be able to in the offseason???

By Mr. Met

July 29, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this

That Braves suck comment was not mine. The Good luck thing was me. Someone is using my name. I dont trash talk.

By dadgum

July 29, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

Jl Lemke, my man are you from this planet. If you reference me I doubt I would know it. My brain can’t interpret your Star Trekish language. I mean I wish I could…I think or I’m not sure um…..” be the ball Danny” be the ball”.

“Miss Rudolph, Miss Rudolph can you tell me what happened to the tarantula? No I can’t but if you don’t bring me that starting pitcher you will see him again.”

By Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

July 29, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

Jason - good for you. Looks like you are well on the way to acceptance and are looking to the future.

How healthy.

By JL Lemke, PHD

July 29, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

Dadgum - I am from academia, as they say.

By MIKEY

July 29, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

That braves suck comment with my name was in fact me. Truth hurts but it has to be told

By Carolina Lady

July 29, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Mr Met. Class is always appreciated and people with class are always welcome! Thanks for the good wishes; we’ll need that and a whole lot more, it seems! :-)))

By JL Lemke, PHD

July 29, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this

Plate O’Meat - I adhere to your “Plate-onic” philosophy.

(Plate O. I could not resist that one.)

Cheers, good fellow.

By Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

July 29, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady - please ignore “MIKEY”/Mr. Met. He is gloating and that is NOT very mature or conducive to personal growth.

Perhaps I should ask some of my feminist friends to join in this blog some time. Indeed, it is over-masculinized and deeply in need of a feminine touch!

By Moe

July 29, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

Mr. Met has no genitals. That is why Mrs. Met ran off with Mr. Potato head.

By Lew

July 29, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

Ma’am-The blog abounds with mosquitoes that buzz noisily and dirty laundry that just tends to hang around. Sometimes one does wish for bug spray, however.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this

In case you missed it, sorry I forgot to tell you earlier that Pena was called up and will be the backup shortstop, at least until Chipper returns from DL. Aybar will play 3B while Chipper’s out.

When Chipper’s activated … could be interesting. Perhaps Pena over Orr? Could be. They’ll need an experienced SS, and Aybar hasn’t played there.

OK, enough with questioing “high ceiling” comments. The Braves think he has a higher ceiling, period. OK? Whether he does or doesn’t remains to be seen. Fact is, and you all need to fully grasp this, the Braves simply weren’t going to use Wilson Betemit as a second baseman next season. No way, no how. And with Chipper and Edgar entrenched on the left side _ in case you missed it, Schuerholz said both would be there the next couple of years _ then Betemit either returns as a utility guy or gets traded for a reliever and utility guy.

I’ve barely seen Aybar play. If you look at his numbers in the minors, they were better overall than Betemit’s, for what that’s worth.

Betemit’s gone, folks. Ain’t coming back. Sorry, but it’s true.

Head coach, if I read the “no team has ever won the wild card with less than 88 games” stat again, I may just puke. We get it, you’ve got the number memorized. We all know it.

But I’ll be Cincinnati or Atlanta or whoever wins the wild card this year, wins it with less than 88 wins. And then what? Does the world stop turning.

Geez, just base your judgment on fact that Braves are playing poorly and now 7 games back in wild-card race with a bunch of teams between them and the lead, please. Stop with the 88-game stat. It’s MEANINGLESS.

Conan O’Brien, you’re a pathetic loser. (the one drooling on this blog, not the late-night Conan, who’s quite good).

By journalist jimmy smith

July 29, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this

“p” player update: pete orr .195, pratt .210, t. pena .100. now, someone explain to journalist why the primary backup at ss, 3b, and 2b - betemit, a switch hitter -must be replaced by three players. primary backup at 3b aybar, at ss pena, at 2b orr. is this right or is aybar or pena primary backup at 2b, too? does it matter? orr’s still here. the best braves teams were built on pitching and defense. when bobby had the best pitching in baseball … should have won a few more pennants. it may be awhile before they get back.

By Phat Bat Boy

July 29, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this

Stick a fork in them! Nothing quite like going out with a whimper. Good thing is, we get to see a decent bullpen work in meaningless games, Chipper continue to breakdown without his special vitamins and Betmit become a top 5 3rd basement in the NL. And who is betting that we resign anyone named Baez or Wickman at the end of the year? I can hear JS now, “I was waiting for his agent to return my call. But we are very pleased with the way Reitsma has responded to his surgery and feel confident that he will be the closer that he showed back in 2005 (for one month)”.

By Lew

July 29, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this

Thank You DOB. Please start a new blog. Even my high speed is turtle slow. BTW- Afriend of mine just returned last week from I think it was called the Gray Fox Bluegrass festival and said the Steve Earle set smoked. It was somewhere in upstate NY-you know, the good part of the state.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

DOB, in your honest opinion do you think this team still can win the wild card? What is the mood of the team right now? Has there been one of those players only closed door meetings? In all fairness to Cox and his coaching staff the problems of this team have nothing to do with them. Hudson is enough of a veteran where a pitching coach should not mean that much.

By krath

July 29, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

I think DOB answered the question I asked a couple of hours ago. Which was…..who’s gonna back up Edgar at short unless we open up a spot for ANOTHER utility infielder. Yeah, now we need three since Wilson is gone lol

Anyway….DOB is right. Betemit is gone. He wasn’t gonna play second next year. It’s probably best for him. I will be a fan and root for him.

On the other hand…DOB or anyone who can answer this….. is $300,000 a year for a utility infielder who has proven himself like Wilson a ‘too high’ price to pay? Especially when your 3rd baseman is turning into a 120 game a year man.

Because JS has stated that Chipper is his man at 3rd for at least the next two years is all the MORE REASON to have kept Betemit. Just any warm body at 3rd for 40 games a season could be the difference between a winner and loser on the season.

I’ll get off the Betemit thing when everyone stops bragging on the trade. It was a stinker. I’ll shut up about it when I quit hearing the rationalization that its a good trade because JS made it!

By MIKEY

July 29, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

Where is all the bravado that I was reading on this blog before the game friday? You all have truned into wounded animals now and you are all so sensitive. 14 division titles and only one world title. Talk about squandering. the Mets are finaly getting running a baseball team right so get used to the wild card chase bravo fans.

By Boomer

July 29, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

**D.O.B.,

One quick question.

The Braves are under .500 at home. This is at least the second time the Braves have come off of a successful road trip and fell flat on their faces at home.

Do you think that they are poorly constructed for Turner Field’s spacious dimensions?

They have very little speed, do not hit and run, they don’t scarifice much, and for the most part are poor situational hitters. They pretty much just try to bash the other teams into submission by swinging for the fences. They score a lot of runs away from home but they can’t produce enough 3 run home runs at home to win.

Also, do they plan to do anything with A.J.’s swing?

It has been horrible for several weeks and he does not seem to care to try and fix it. He got away with pulling off the ball, and swinging so hard he falls down, for a while but it will catch up to him. His average and production will drop like a rock unless he at least tries to keep that front shoulder in. Last year he hit the ball to center and right at times. This year he does not even seem to think about going that way.

I tell my son not to watch when A.J. comes up to bat because I don’t want him getting into any bad habits. That is one ugly swing.

Thanks for the Great Posts!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

The fact is this team came out of spring training all wrong. Todd Pratt and Brian Jordan should have never been on the roster. Never. Jurries or Thorman and Bryan Pena should have been. How many games did it cost us having those two in the lineup?

This team has had some bad luck. Injuries have been a killer. Not making excuses. Its just fact. Where would we be if Davies and Thomson had been healthy all year and Horacio for that matter. What if Chipper had been healthy? We wouldn’t be in the position we are in. The baseball gods simply aren’t smiling on us.

Mets fans, don’t get too happy. Your starting pitching is mediocre at best. And hope that the injury bug doesn’t hit your team. If Reyes or Wright were ever out for an extended period of time you would see what that team is made of. I give you all the credit. You have a good team. But, no one can tell me that payroll isn’t a cause of this. Simple fact. If the Braves had just $20 more million to spend, which isn’t close to what your GM is spending, Billy Wagner would be a Brave (ask him) and tomorrow afternoon you would hear the pa announcer say, “Now, batting leadoff for your Atlanta Braves Aflonso Soriano”. And no matter how much you wanna say the opposite you know its true.

One more thing. The problem with just freely spending as your better bigger brother, the Yankees, have learned that you alwasys miss something. In the Mets case its starting pitching. You’ll see when playoff time comes. Congratulations on winning the division becasue this race is over. The Braves must stop this ridicuolous notion that they can win the division. They need to concentrate solely on the wild card. I think its contributed to their struggles.

By Glass Half Full

July 29, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this

Perhaps this run of luck is necessary. Maybe it will remove the foolish notion of another division title. Focus on the wild card fellas.

By Eric Webb

July 29, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

Boy Hudson is stinking up the joint. Maybe Cox needs to skip his turn in the rotation, and let him try to figure it out with McDowell in some bullpen sessions?

What does every1 else think?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

I thought McDowell would be a good pitching coach, but he simply doesn’t know what he’s doing. His laid back style would be alright if he had a bunch of intense pitchers. It would offset it. But, a lot of these guys are just too laid back and need a foot in their a**! I guarantee Hudson, Horacio, nor Schiell got their butts reamed out for the horrible way they pitched the last three days. The biggest problem is pitch selection. McCann had to go chew out Horacio last night.

JS needs to do whatever he can do to get a starter. I don’t care who it takes. Get a starter.

By JasonInMaine

July 29, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this

As I mentioned in a previous post, I think Hudson should be traded. There is a team out there somewhere with an arrogant pitching coach who thinks they can get “Huddy” straightened out. Like I said, if the Braves could get a prospect and a guy to play LF like Crisp from Boston, do it. Seriously, I would rather have Crisp, a prospect, and Kip Wells than Hudson. He hasn’t been good his entire time with the Braves. It obviously isn’t working, so send him somewhere where he may get it straightened out. The Braves won’t be any worse off.

Regards,

Jason

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

Jason, I totally agree. I say send Hudson to Boston for Crisp and a prospcet. Then offer the Pirates Langerhans or Thorman, Salty, and another mid level prospect for Kip Wells. We would be so much better off. For whatever reason Hudson just can’t get it done. We can no longer wait for him to “work it out”.

By Lew

July 29, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

Do you all seriously believe you can get Crisp and a prospect from Boston for Hdson? Get real people. This is not some kind of temporary problem here. It has gone on all this year and last year there was marked inconsistency in his performance. At this point in time, Giles and Hudson need to be traded for whatever prospects are available. At least this will result in substantial savings to spend for improvements in the offseason. If we want to keep up this pretense of making the playoffs, and DOB, I know you are a believer, but many how many times weeks ago has it been said that this type of performance can’t go on. Well, 3-6 in the past nine games isn’t going to get it done, even if 75 wins will get you the wild card. There has been absolutely no indication that this team is running on 4 cylinders, much less all 8. Yes, there is still a mathematical chance, but with the pathetic and putrid pitching performances by most of our starting staff, I’m of the belief that there are way too many holes to fill for us to have a big chance. Sorry, but with Chipper down for two weeks, Davies not back for a couple, either and not having any inkling of how he will perform and Andruw swinging like something serious is wrong, the immediate future is bleak

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

I don’t see what is wrong with acquiring Crisp. Boston would take the chance that Hudson would snap out of whatever funk he is in. The Red Sox need starting pitching if they are to have any hopes of a World Series. I guarantee you that Epstein would take the risk and would be willing to let go of Crisp because he seems to have the same disease that Renteria did last year.

By JasonInMaine

July 29, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Yes, I do think that there is a chance the Braves could get Crisp and a prospect from Boston, but the Braves may have to include something other than Hudson. From reports that I am hearing (mostly from Boston and ESPN), the Sox have soured on Crisp in the same manner that they soured on Edgar. With the lack of quality arms available, the Sox may be willing to take a gamble. When considering that they don’t like Crisp and pretty much think he is easily replaceable, you never know. It certainly wouldn’t hurt to make a call. I mean, they are searching hard. Clement is gone. David Wells is 108 and now weighs 508. They have been using the likes of Jason Johnson and that Snyder guy. I certainly see your point, but if they have soured on Crisp in the same manner as Edgar and are are that desperate for pitching help; it may be worth a shot.

Regards,

Jason

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 29, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this

I bet the Red Sox would make the trade if we only offered Hudson. But, if they did want something else we could give them Langerhans or Pete Orr. The Sox would love a guy like Orr because they could use him to pinch run late in games for guys like Varitek and Loretta. I don’t think Hudson is THIS bad and for whatever reason he just can’t get it done in Atlanta. And I’m willing to bet the Sox would rather take their chances with Hudson than the likes of Jason Johnson. Just my guess. A guy who is Cy Young material or a guy who has gotten lit up like a Christmas tree everytime he has pitched. Some guys are American League guys (Hudson) and some are National League (Renteria). Can’t explain it; it just is.

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

Jay Lemke, you’re from Academia … near Athens, right? You don’t sound like anyone who’s spent much time between the hedges, as they say … do you have any ancestors from North Carolina?

I tried to comprehend your comments but I must admit befuddlement over why Postmodernism would be arguing about Jimmy Smith’s culture unless he thinks that some culture is killing the Hostas … it may be true that the Hostas need culture, as it appears do some of us … but we all know that it’s Blue Worms, not culture, that’s killing the Hostas; a different kettle entirely … maybe not for the baby seal consumption, but certainly objective knowledge, as they say.

Seriously Doctor, if something isn’t quickly done to change the Braves’ Culture, we’re going to have a corpse on our hands and a post mortem will probably be of more interest to us than Premodernism, Modernism or Postmodernism.

We also need immediate help if we’re to avoid the Curse of the Buttermint Babe … can you play second base?

By Bob, journalist

July 29, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

Boomer,

Regarding “Do you think that they are poorly constructed for Turner Field’s spacious dimensions?” … following the Great War, we had a period of reconstruction in Atlanta … that’s objective knowledge … if we fail to make the playoffs, all the carpetbaggers will be out in full force in an effort to fleece Braves’ management … while others will suggest changing the field dimensions to accomodate the strengths of the team.

Ours is a pretty talented group of players who are appearantly in need of qualified instruction in how to best utilize their talents and take advantage of the environs within which they play … just as singles, doubles and defense are the keys to winning at Coors’ Field … so is it at Turner, regardless of team speed.

Just my opinion, not objective knowledge.

By MEB

July 29, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

Just a couple thoughts after a very tough week of Braves baseball.

• The Florida Marlins have a very talented young team with loads of pitching. What a shame they are ignored in their own hometown.

• A big thumbs up to Braves fans for packing the house Friday (53,943 is amazing) and Saturday. There was a lot of excitement ready to explode had the Braves delivered a better performance.

• Turner Field is a great place to watch a game. The park is fair and not tricked up like lots of MLB parks. I’ve been to many major league stadiums and I like Turner Field the best. Wrigley Field is really beautiful and cool in a nostalgic kind of way but I’ll take the Ted.

• I met quite a few Mets fans at the game Friday and they were very cool. They were knowledgeable and very excited about their team as they should be. If they can get another starter, like Zito, they can play with anybody.

• I feel a real sense of disappointment for Chipper Jones. I really think if he could have continued to stay hot at the plate, carried this team to the playoffs, garnered MVP consideration, he may have cemented a place in Cooperstown. I’m sure this will be a topic of debate for many years but just look at his numbers.

• Lets say we beat the Mets tomorrow, sweep 3 from the Pirates, and then sweep 3 from the Reds, what will the tone of this blog be. The schedule in August sure looks inviting or am I just being an optimist?

By journalist jimmy smith

July 29, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

journalist bob, petrie dish, right? if this team is cultured it will require immediate anti-biotic regimen. if, instead, the team needs culture (nose picking is frequent - one major offender) then perhaps a field trip is in order to the new cultural center in stone mountain. this would give the team an opportunity to do some bonding and would allow those with presence to present. ain’t culture wonderful?

By Stanford

July 29, 2006 10:55 PM | Link to this

This may be old news but I haven’t seen it mentioned on here. From MLB.com in their article about Chipper going to the DL:

“To make room for Aybar and Baez on the roster, the Braves announced Saturday that they will designate reliever Jorge Sosa for assignment.”

By Lew

July 29, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

Don’t know about anti-biotics, Esteemed Journalist, but a tourniquet is definitely in order before blood loss hits the point of no return. I certainly do think they should try for Crisp. Who knows, those fools in Boston went for the Renteria deal. At least Hudson is in the bigs. I wouldn’t like to think they were that dumb, but I’m shocked in this regard on a daily basis. I don’t even know what to make of this Betemit trade. I guess I just have to hope JS hasn’t lost it completely. Journalist Jimmy and Journalist Bob-check your email- artwork has been posted.

By Tonight on TBS

July 29, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this

Two repeat broadcasts.

First

The Sting (1973)

Two L.A. con men, Colletti and Little, weave a complex scheme to defraud big shot gambler Scheurholz, who is too clever for his own good, of his betemit. (Not for children).

Followed by

Comedy Special: Jorge Sosa Farewell Tour

Last chance to catch this hilarious act. Includes skits with fellow funnymen Chris Reitsma and Kenny Ray. Special appearance by Tim Hudson (early in the show; he won’t be around for the second half of the program).

By Chop Chop

July 29, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this

Stanford, I read that MLB.com article and missed the part about Jorge Sosa being dumped. Thanks for posting that on here.

By Rod Serling

July 29, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this

Submitted for your consideration…

the Braves are now going where they have never gone before, they are entering a world beyond time and space, beyond the spacious dimensions of the known, they are entering…

the twilight zone.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2006 11:48 PM | Link to this

Alright, I’ve spent the day working. I work 6 to 7 days a week. Most days it allows me to blog. But today was not the case. Having seen the results of this game I can say this, Hudson blows. He blows so hard. Sosa, as bad as he is, seems on par. You get what you expect out of him, and some times he can surprise. Besides, how excited could you be with a career loser? Hudson, a potential Maddux master mind, has turned into a heaping pile of wasted opportunity. My only hope is, he turns it around and improves his trade value.
I see no reason not to trade him no matter what. I only hope he turns it up a notch just so we can get more in return. I believe the Braves will trade him this off-season. I’d imagine, even with this terrible year, they could get a good amount for him due to his relatively low salary next year. Plus, we have Smoltz, Hampton, James, Ramirez, and Davies. That gives us 3 lefties and 2 righties.

On that I turn to the trade. Now that I have had time to analyze what we got in return, I’m not completely disappointed. Aybar could be quite the improvement over Betemit. He is a better defender by far. He is much faster. And he is younger. And, after plugging him into my matrix, he shows way more potential than Betemit. He should bring us about a 15% increase in offense. Not because he has pop, but because he leads to the small ball route, which is something we lack completely. This should help in the long run. Aybar has the potential to reach base and be more effective than Betemit. He has better range. He is younger. And he is just cheap, or cheaper than Betemit. He is a super Belliard, in that he can field as good as, or better than, Belliard. And hit fathoms better than Belliard. Fathoms. He could be an every day player, but his career, most likely, rests in the support role. Betemit, well, he stepped up for us and I appreciate it. But he had no future with us and his number didn’t project too well either. He is highly aggressive, and strikes out way to much. From the analysis, Aybar shows more knowledge of his strike zone than Betemit.

Baez, well, at least it’s only a half season and we got cash. He could help. He certainly can’t be any worse. If we are attempting to compete for a wild card spot, then he will be valuable. But, over all he isn’t worth much. I’m glad we didn’t pay Davies and McCann for him. We got him for a ridiculously cheap price, which is nice.

By Bob, journalist

July 30, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

Thanks Lew! You are a master among men … your women aren’t bad either, faerie is fantastic … Braves’ Fan, right?!

By Lew

July 30, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this

Absolutely a Braves’ fan, Journalist Bob.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this

Alright, just went through the posts. Must of hit a chord with Mikey. Maybe it was the Cubs remarks. Mikey has to take pride in beating the Braves. Over the last 20 years, the Braves have won more than the Mets, and certainly more than the Cubs. But, come on, even the Braves can beat the Cubs. I make no excuse for how poorly Hudson played. I’d love to see a trade of Hudson for Lastings. I won’t hold my breath, but, looking at those pathetic Mets, it isn’t without reason that they’d do something absolutely stupid as that. They’re the Mets. One of the worst franchises in baseball. The butt of most baseball jokes. The arm-pit of all that is glorious of baseball. What? They beat a struggling Braves? Where were you when the Braves were good? Oh, wait, you walked in the winning run… Thank you Kenny Rogers. Take what you can, but the Mets will never be better than the Braves. It’s a matter of about 140 years of tradition and pride, verses 60 years of failure and misery.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this

MEB: Right on. This team isn’t dead. It’s just now getting it’s parts in place. We just need the starters to show up (Smoltz, you’re solid as ever! And I just got a figurine of yours… so stoked!) But the race is in the wild card. And it’s still winnable.
As for what this team needs now, it needs starting pitching. The sad thing is, on paper, we should have it. But in practice, the crap surfaces more than the gold. HoRam, please show us your best from here on out. Hudson, you say nothing is wrong, but what gives!?!? Davies… work well, pefect practice is what you need. Keep the ball down. James, oh man what a future you have!

Some where around $3 million + left. JS, Another trade is needed. Make it a good one.

GO BRAVES

By Don

July 30, 2006 12:45 AM | Link to this

Enough with this crap about Upside Aybar and his defense and how he can compete for second base next year but Betemit can’t play second. The Dodgers were trying to make a left fielder out of Upside Aybar BECAUSE HE STINKS DEFENSIVELY AS AN INFIELDER. This deal was Betemit for the Baez rental and Upside Aybar was a throw-in. As others have pointed out, Aybar doesn’t even replace Betemit because he can’t play shortstop (the Dodgers apparently didn’t think he could play second or third either). Here’s some perspective on Aybar’s place in the Dodgers organization from the June 20 L.A. Times:

“The Dodgers, unsure whether Bill Mueller will play again this season and unconvinced that Willy Aybar can play third base every day, told Cesar Izturis on Tuesday that he is their new third baseman. ‘That’s the only spot we’ve got,’ Izturis said. ‘I’ve got to take it.’ Izturis, a Gold Glove shortstop, has not played third base in the majors or minors. The Dodgers activated him Tuesday, optioning Aybar to triple-A Las Vegas with an eye toward making him a utility man. Manager Grady Little said Izturis would start at third Thursday, after a two-day crash course at the position. He did not play there during a 15-game minor league rehabilitation assignment. ‘Is this perfect? No,’ General Manager Ned Colletti said. ‘This season’s been far from perfect.’ Little called Izturis last week in Las Vegas and asked him to play some third base. ‘His initial reaction was, maybe it wasn’t that good of an idea,’ Little said. When Izturis returned to Dodger Stadium on Tuesday, he met with Little and agreed to switch positions. When Mueller underwent knee surgery last month, the Dodgers expected him to return in one to two months and recalled Aybar in the interim. But Colletti said Tuesday he is ‘not convinced’ that Mueller can return this season, citing the slow pace of his rehabilitation. Aybar, whose defense has been wobbly at third, said he was ‘very surprised’ when the Dodgers demoted him, more surprised when they told him he would play left field in Las Vegas.

Aybar said he considers third base his best position. Colletti said Aybar would play second base, third base and left field in Las Vegas. ‘The more positions he can play, the better chance he’ll have,’ Colletti said.”

Translation: the Dodgers consider Upside Aybar as a career utility player at best. But he’s got a legitimate shot to start for the Braves at second next year. Right.

By Glass Half Full

July 30, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

It’s difficult to build a new dynasty in the NL East without a solid farm system. Free agency and trades from firesales cannot build 14 straight. BTW, JS is making bold moves in July…one wonders if these type moves would’ve helped us in previous years?

By Bob, journalist

July 30, 2006 12:53 AM | Link to this

Jimmy, cultures in a petrie dish … maybe we could create an entirely new culture and let bloggers run the team, cultured bloggers with objective baseball knowledge of course!

That’s how they make buttermilk these days … cultured buttermilk for refined people … and those who don’t have any objective knowledge when it comes to operating churns. I wonder if the Buttermint was churned or cultured … methinks he brought some culture to our team but alas he’s now in an entirely new one … oh the humanity, as they say.

Actually, the only Petrie of which I have any objective knowledge is a Van D**e … good artist, that fellow, but he has nothing on our man Lew!

I noticed that Lew’s baseball art was autographed … maybe we could get DNA from them and create clones from the cultures … they all looked to be in their primes and the Braves would probably be interested in such cultured players.

That McClung kid looked like a hoss!

Culture is indeed wonderful but churned is better!

By mariner

July 30, 2006 01:53 AM | Link to this

Here’s the entire text of what Keith Law at espn.com had t say abut the trade;

“The Dodgers used Danys Baez to upgrade their third baseman of the immediate future. Wilson Betemit, 26, is a four-tool player whose speed has been lost as he has filled out over the past few years.

The switch-hitter crushes right-handers, can play third, second or short in a pinch, and has slightly above-average power to all fields. He’s a significant improvement over Willy Aybar, who is three years younger but has stagnated at the plate since he was signed at age 16 in 1999. For the Dodgers, this amounts to trading Edwin Jackson, Chuck Tiffany and Aybar for Betemit, and that’s a clear win.

In exchange for Betemit, the Braves get Baez, who like Bob Wickman is known more for his save totals than his ability to miss bats. Baez has a solid-average fastball but no real out pitch, and only this year has he shown even average control.

That said, the Braves’ bullpen was their biggest weakness — well, other than Jeff Francoeur — and Baez immediately becomes their best late-game option from the right side. “

Ouch.

By Tomahawkin

July 30, 2006 02:19 AM | Link to this

What da hell, I’m still sticking with me Braves, but we can’t get sewpt, we ain’t gone go out like some suckas!!!

“D.O.B.” Where you at baby to give us some insight on how we have struggled since that team to the Louie…

Carroll Was rite about Chipper being a Wuss… If Brett Favre or Donavan Mcnabb had that injury they would be out there…

Chipper since 1999 is seroiusly become the epitome of the overpaid athlete, The only reason I still love Chipper is that I have a bunch of his rookie cards, and remember him the way he was when he first got here…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 30, 2006 02:21 AM | Link to this

You know, I’m tired of all these cheap shots at Francoeur. How can you say that a guy who has 20Hrs and over 70RBI with two full months left to go in the season is a weakness. The guy is the best defensive right fielder in the league and yes he strikesout a lot but the guy until Friday led the majors in two out RBI and still has the most RBI from the 7th inning on. i just don’t get it. It just pisses me off. Its insane! I dare say that if JS said right now that Frenchy was on the trading block that every….EVERY other team in the majors would come calling. Its stupid. Just stupid. These posers act like he is the only guy in the majors that swings at the first pitch and strikesout a lot. Yes, he needs to learn plate discipline but so does Carlos Lee and Alfonso Soriano. Has these fools ever watched a game Soriano played in. He swings at everything. When he was with the Yankees he made Francoeur look like Brett Butler. As he has become more mature he has learned to be a bit (just a bit) more selective. Frenchy will learn.

What is it about him that these guys hate so much?

By Tomahawkin

July 30, 2006 02:25 AM | Link to this

**TAenn Paul, From what I hear from philly/Mutt fans Lastings Sucks, He is not ready yet…

Lets get one tomorrow, so we won’t look like some suckas on ESPN, You guys know that ESPN Takes pride in seeing our struggles

By Tomahawkin

July 30, 2006 02:38 AM | Link to this

Robert Ur Right, Frenchie is da truth, Especially since he has only played 180 some-odd games, Lay off da man that due is Hard!

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2006 02:47 AM | Link to this

Don, just curious about why you’re so indignant. Do you feel you’ve been wronged by the Braves? Your labeling of Aybar as “Upside Aybar” is cute; keep it up. In the interim, you realize of course than anyone on the Dodgers blog, who wants to question their manager’s description of Betemit as “one of the best young players in baseball” (I’m paraphrasing, but that’s the gist of what Grady Little or Colleti said), could simply do the same thing you did and take from an AJC article from past months for a description of Betemit not being good enough defensively to play second base, according to the Braves, and not good enough to unseat either of their veterans at 3B or SS, and that he’d be a utility guy as long as he was here.

Then if you were the Dodgers fan questioning the move, you could apply a cute little nickname like “Upside Betemit” and act like you actually know how good the player is, more so than the manager or general manager of the Dodgers describing him as one of the best young players in the game. Do you see what I’m saying?

Don, you don’t know anything about Aybar, and all I know (because I barely even remember him when Braves played them) is what the Braves scouts tell Bobby and Schuerholz and what they tell us. So until we see him, that’s what we have to go on.

And what if he’s nothing more than a utility guy? Well, Don, he’d be Betemit then, wouldn’t he? Because that’s what Betemit was here, a utility guy. You act as though Wilson had a 25-homer season or drove in 75 or something? Which of his stats are you so blown away by that suggests he’s a superstar waiting to happen? Just curious.

Are you upset at me and the other writers for quoting the manager or GM in regards to the trade? Upset that Betemit is gone? What? Do you want us to rip apart the trade and have your opinion, just because … well, dammit, just because you liked Betemit and you want him back? OK, Don, it was a terrible trade and Aybar is awful defensively. So they got one of the closers they pursued last year and a an awful defensive player in exhange for 26-year-old Wilson Betemit.

It was a rotten deal, if you say so, Don. Let’s not wait to see how they do and how Betemit does with the Dodgers. Let’s just called him “Upside Aybar” and keep writing about how the Brave are full of crap for not telling us they got a dog in return for Betemit, OK?

By the way, Bobby Cox loves Betemit as a person. Raved about him today off the record. Positively sung his praises. So tell me again, why exactly did they trade him? Because if he’s a great player, on top of being a great guy the manager loves, why exactly would they deal him? Just curious, Don, since you obviously have the inside sources and the ability to Google an L.A. Times article that is the last word on “Upside Aybar.”

Good night, Don. Hopefully, you’ll eventually be able to get over the fact that Betemit’s gone. Life goes on.

By The Grinch

July 30, 2006 03:00 AM | Link to this

I’m checkin’ in for just a second, on my way to beddy-bye; T’hawkin’, keep it real, my brotha. It’ll all be ok. Everyone chizzill. Have faith in one’s Bravos…

By Tomahawkin

July 30, 2006 03:03 AM | Link to this

Damn D.O.B. You are up late ain’t cha???, Tryin to stomp wit the big dawgs huh, lol. J/K, Nuff Respect to ya D.O.B.

Man You sound like you’re in a pi-s-s-d off mood, I dunno about you, but we just can’t play good baseball consistantly in big series like we used to do in the past…

By Tomahawkin

July 30, 2006 03:08 AM | Link to this

Grinch, I knew Your wild a-s-s would still be up… I still got faith…W still got 59 games left Baby! but I think Florida is gonna be a thorn in our side the rest of da way, they always play us tough…

By Tomahawkin

July 30, 2006 03:13 AM | Link to this

Yea Grinch, Stay Out, Unfortunately I’be at the Damn Home Depot Workin while the game is on, Keep choppin on Dem Braves, We Ain’t done yet, But that team is sure playin like they are done, Especially Hudson, That dude has no heart…It seems…

By Bob, journalist

July 30, 2006 03:28 AM | Link to this

The AJC Blog “bad word” Editor is picking on me again! Goodness and Dadgum! If I were a preacher, which I ain’t, I’d start cussin’ but it wouldn’t do no good … it says right here on this blog that asterisks are for indicating italics and bolded text … not to deprive some poor soul of embarrassing himself!

Yesterday, I attempted to reference the fact that a young man was graduated with highest honors, using the accepted Latin Honor to so do … I guess the Editor thought I was making a vulgar reference to seminal fluid.

Tonight, I tried to reference the actor that portrayed Rob Petrie … same name as the famous 17 Century artist, though the Dutch spelling would have probably survived the scrutiny of the Editor’s somewhat limited artifical intellegence. The Editor, clearly not a cultured member of the three digit club, evidently thought I was trying to sneak in a vulgar reference to a female homosexual.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2006 03:38 AM | Link to this

Yeah, Tomahawkin’ up waay too late, considering gotta get up and get to the park in morning for a day game. But I made mistake of coming down to turn off the computer in the basement office and read a few posts that needed to be responded to.

Just saw one other, by the way, from Stanford, who saw on the MLB.com story that the Braves had “announced” Jorge Sosa would be designated for assignment to clear spot for Baez.

That’s absolutely untrue. Not that Sosa will be designated, which is certainly a strong possibility. Gotta be him or Shiell. But it’s absolutely untrue that it was “announced” by the Braves on Saturday. If it was announced, it was announced to one person: MLB.com. And that wouldn’t be an announcement. That would be “told privately,” or “leaked.”

Again, I’ll repeat: It was not, in any way, announced. Because if it was, then why didn’t the Associated Press, the AJC, or any other media outlet receive the announcement? If there’s an announcement, we all get it. And I specifically asked the person in charge, who makes such announcements, whether it would be Sosa, and was told he had no idea yet, that Schuerholz and Co. had not told him. There was no announcement.

Does MLB.com have exclusive early access to an “announcement” from an MBL team before it’s actually made? I don’t know. If they indeed got an announcement about Sosa, then yes, they do.

Because as I’ve said, there was no announcement. Whether it’s Sosa or Shiell, it’ll be announced Sunday. That is, the real announcement, the one that goes to the media.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2006 03:44 AM | Link to this

Don, you obviously can read. For reference, go back and read the reports of the Dodgers signing Furcal. The Dodgers raved about him. Some Braves fans cried in defeat that the Braves didn’t offer him 13+ million to stay. The pundits claimed the Braves would miss him so much that 13 million a year would seem a bargain. The reports were Renteria was washed up. Take a sober look at how that turned out.

Now, let’s get our heads out of our @sses and look at what is. Betemit had no place here. He was nothing more than a utility player that struck out a ton for the Bravos. He filled in nicelyas a utility guy for the Braves, and I’m thankfull for it. I’ll miss him, but he’s gone. But “upside Aybar” has speed, the ability to lay down bunts and basically, the ability to play small ball and move runners over, as well as the ability to hit for average. He has a higher on base percentage. His down side, he doesn’t swing for the fences, or in some terms, he has less “pop”. Aybar will prove himself. He isn’t going to be as flashy as Betemit, but he should be more productive. He certainly won’t trip over himself playing his position. And he’ll make more plays than Betemit would. And, living in LA, the hype on Aybar last year was unbelievable. Many a Dodger fan called to find out about Betemit, and I said I’d miss him. They said they’d miss Aybar. It’s the way it goes.
As for the Dodgers, they needed some one with “pop”. They got him. Betemit can hit the homers on occassion. They’re infield is going down harder than ours, so they desperately needed to do something for show and tell. And, why in the hell would the Dodger system just say they traded away two players and cash for a “downside Betemit”? Of course they’ll talk it up. JS talked up Kolb. It’s what you do when you make a trade.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2006 03:45 AM | Link to this

By the way, Tomahawkin’, you should have been at the Van Hunt show tonight at Smith’s Olde Bar. The dude was flat-out smokin’. Like some crazy hybrid of Sly Stone, Prince and Curtis Mayield. He’s incredible, and he’s gonna get big, I guarantee you. I wanted to see him at Smith’s, because I have a feeling it’ll be akin to having seen Prince back when he played at First Ave. in Minneapolis before he got huge.

Not that I’m predicting that kind of success for Van Hunt. Nobody is likely to get that huge anytime soon. But the man is extremely talented. Great song writer, singer and guitar player, with a hip, tight band.

By shawn

July 30, 2006 03:45 AM | Link to this

DOB its a blog dude.Calm down it is for the fans to express there opinion. We aren’t GM’s but they are our Braves too and we are entitled ti disagree with JS,BC and yes even you.It was in this very column you said Linebrick was the only available relief pitcher you would trade WB for so you must not be 100% yourself on this deal. Look DOB we can love the Braves and criticize them.If you remember I asked you the question IF the Braves were swept would JS consider selling and promptly raked by every blogger on here including you who were to “loyal” to see the team for what it is….poorly constructed, aging in key areas and no payroll flexibility.Looks like I was right but that doesn’t make it any better because as true fans we are up at 2:00 a.m. throwing out ideas beacuse we really care about the team. I know if they throw in the towel you might lose a few readers for the rest of the year but please DOB your a journalist and you don’t have to agree with EVERYTHING the Braves do…..

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2006 03:51 AM | Link to this

It’s late… should be their, not they’re. Whatever. Just read it fast. I blame it on Kolb.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2006 03:55 AM | Link to this

DOB: Where do I find your information on this site? I click on your name and it takes me to this input box. I’d like to send you some copies of the 88, but I don’t know how else to contact you except through the blog…

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2006 04:03 AM | Link to this

Shawn: It’s a blog dude. Calm down. It’s for fans (or DOB) to reply to opinions of other fans. Open forum right?

By shawn

July 30, 2006 04:15 AM | Link to this

open forum right…..but being pissy isn’t necessary….lets see DOB actually told me to get my facts straight or don’t post…real open……real open….guess because unlike DOB and yourself I see the Braves for what they are not what I wish them to be.Every time they make any move you guys just latch on to it….open your eyes…they are done….

By shawn

July 30, 2006 04:23 AM | Link to this

by the way with this trade will they make the playoffs and if no why not keep WB using him as before and sign Danny B. in the off season? There just isn’t any reason for it unless it puts us over the hump….and it won’t.Danny B. will walk at years end after if we wouldn’t apy him this year (they don’t even want to pay the rest of this years salary) what makes you think JS resigns him. It isn’t that it is a lopsided trade it is just there is no real purpose anymore to doing it…..it will not change the fact the Braves don’t make the playoffs

By Lew

July 30, 2006 04:44 AM | Link to this

No, the trade doesn’t seem to make sense, but JS hasn’t all of a sudden come up with a case of Alzheimer’s. We’ll just have to wait and see. What the hell are we awake for, anyway?

By Bob, journalist

July 30, 2006 05:22 AM | Link to this

Hudson is a puzzle, but he was last year too … here are my random thoughts, though I admit to being as puzzled now as when I started trying to solve it.

I could never figure out how a boy from Columbus could ever forget Georgia humidity in the summertime … having lived in Columbus while he was growing up, I can attest with objective knowledge that the humidity in those environs is not something that one quickly forgets … though it couldn’t compete with that in Houston.

I met Dizzy Dean a few years before his death when he was being interviewed by a friend of mine … Mr. Falstaff was drinking a Schlitz, probably as a joke … it was summertime in North Georgia and the famous “toe” incident was one of the topics of conversation … mostly, it was jovial hero worship of a living legend.

I don’t know much about Hudson except his exploits at Auburn and what I heard and read about his success in Oakland … but I always had the impression that he had the toughness of Pat Jarvis with great stuff and almost Maddux like control … and like Greg, he kenw how to win.

I know that he maintains that his problems aren’t injury related but it could be somewhat like Dean’s toe … one thing affecting another without anyone realizing anything was wrong … until the damage was done.

I think Tim had a problem with his left hip toward the end of the 2002 season and then strained his left oblique muscle late in the 2003 season. It could be that some “compensation” has resulted … physical, mental or both … which brings him to where he is today.

His uncharactistic struggles with location seem to have escalated and I wonder if his “stuff” has been adversly affected by efforts to regain the locational precision for which he is known.

That being said, the splits would seem to indicate that his early inning success has always been better than that during the middle and late innings.

If he is not a physically impaired pitcher, then one would think that his track record strongly suggests that the key exists which will unlock his shackles and allow a return to form … just taking his turn in the rotation ain’t likely to change anything.

No posits, just opines.

By Head Coach

July 30, 2006 05:49 AM | Link to this

DAVID O’BRIEN , you my friend are in DENIAL. I quote stats in the hope that people can see just how near impossible it is to hope. There is nothing to do but play out the remaining 59 games. And by the way , Furman Bisher , Mark Bradley , Terence Moore and Jeff Schultz agree that the Braves are essentially done and you need to burn your bandwagon and get in step with the rest of us.

By Bob, journalist

July 30, 2006 06:58 AM | Link to this

Coach, when you were coaching … what did you tell your guys when they were struggling and things looked bleak? … maybe something like “everybody says you don’t have a chance and the historical stats indicate it too … so, let’s get in step with the ‘experts’ … we need to realize your’re losers and that there’s nothing to do but play out the remaining games” … my, my coach … I would expect better from the Coach who’s supposed to have more faith in his players than that … better from the fans … and better from the media too.

Now get back on board … we need to make a good impression on the two new guys, and give all our lads a good reason to do their very best in the face of what some call long odds … if we do that and they do that, we’ll all be winners, regardless of wins and loses. If they do and we don’t, then we’re the losers, even if they do the “impossible”!

Selah.

By JasonInMaine

July 30, 2006 07:11 AM | Link to this

Lew,

Here is the report from ESPNInsider:

Red Sox denied Jul 29 - ESPN The Magazine’s Buster Olney reports the Red Sox offered CF Coco Crisp to the White Sox for LHP Mark Buehrle. The White Sox said no. So, let’s compare Buehrle and Hudson:

Buehrle: REC 9-9 | SV 0 | ERA 4.81 | WHIP 1.39 2006 Salary: $8 Mill

Hudson: REC 8-8 | SV 0 | ERA 5.25 | WHIP 1.48 2006 salary: $6.5 Mill

Now, we know that Hudson’s contract is backloaded and I am not sure of Buehrle’s contract and I am too lazy to research it (: But, are their stats that different where one would believe that Boston wouldn’t consider Crisp and a prospect?

Regards,

Jason

By Bob, journalist

July 30, 2006 07:26 AM | Link to this

Coach, a couple more things to ponder, regardless of which math you using in North Dakota on this stormy Sunday morning in Middle Tennessee … it’s the rain that makes the grass green and helps the corn grow tall … up there and down here. Best of all, we can count on the sun shining bright tomorrow, regardless of how dark and dreary it is today!

It’s not exactly all that some wanted but we just added a couple of decent relievers to help a young, developing offense that recently set some mighty impressive modern day, National League hitting records against some pretty good teams … fun to watch, deserving of our faith and support, regardless of current struggles.

Now you pull out a victory for us against millionaire union shill Glavin & Company while I get some sleep.

By Bob, journalist

July 30, 2006 07:48 AM | Link to this

Coach, I’ve read my emails and am shutting down … but think about it … you sound a bit like Nathan did before he got religion and became an optimist. The shoe seems like it is on the wrong foot … we amateurs depend on experienced folks like yourself to motivate fans and bloggers to continue to believe in the team when most are heading for the exits and logic suggests all may be lost … not the other way around.

By Don

July 30, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

DOB, a big part of why I’m indignant is that you’ve demonstrated over the last couple of weeks that you’re basically a mouthpiece for John Schuerholz. You have torn down Betemit repeatedly. Can’t play second, only a utility player, etc. You give Giles a pass for the first 2 months and talk about how he’s given the Braves “everything they wanted” since then. Well, he hit .270 instead of .300 during that stretch but that’s nothing, right?

You’ve written in favor of every rumored trade for Betemit. Trade him to the Yankees for a 29 year old “late bloomer” that Torre is burning up with innings? A great idea. Let’s toss out a few of his bad appearances and talk about how good he is. Never mind why a team desperate for pitching would trade him. Trade Betemit for Linebrink? Even better, throw out that doubleheader he pitched both ends of (why would he get a pass on the front end of a doubleheader?) and see what his statistics look like.

Now they trade him for a two month rental of Danny Baez, who has failed as the Dodgers closer and as a setup man. Their bullpen has been almost as bad as the Braves’. And a throw-in of a guy who you and Schuerholz use to trash Betemit further by saying Aybar, a guy the Dodgers don’t think can play defensively at second or third, much less short, has more upside. Upside as what, the next Matt Franco?

I am not saying Betemit is a star or that he’s going to be. But he has shown a lot of pop at the plate and he’s played an adequate third and short. He’s done OK at second given that he’d hardly ever played there. But unlike every other player not named Sosa on the Braves (I can only imagine what management thinks of Sosa given the way you’ve pounded him), you have only talked about what Betemit can’t do, or allegedly can’t do. Any talk about 10 runs and 10 hits in 4 games? No. How about that great barehand play Betemit made in the 9th behind Wickman? No. Betemit can’t play 2nd. Never mind that even if that’s true we need a 50 game per year backup for Chipper, and we had a cheap one who could not only do that but also fill in at second and short and hit with some pop. I guess you can pull a guy off the streets to do that if necessary.

John Smoltz said after the trade that it seemed like Betemit has never been given a real chance to play. Brian Jordan said he couldn’t believe the trade. Why don’t you go take it up with those guys? They don’t know anything either.

Next year, Giles will be gone because he will be overpriced and we can’t afford him. We’ll have one less option as a potential starter at second base (excuse me for straying off the party line there; I suspect they’d have started Betemit over Pete Orr if that’s what it came down to). We’ll need two utility infielders to back up second, short and third instead of one. And we’ll start the year with no bullpen and very little bullpen budget. If our two latest bullpen rentals stink for us, we might be able to afford them but won’t want them. If they do a good job, somebody else will sign them because we won’t be able to afford them. Aybar will be a pinch hitter for the Braves or more likely, a minor league player.

We will have given Betemit, a cost efficient and promising player, away for the pipe dream that Baez gave us a real shot at the wild card.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 30, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

Jason, thanks for showing those stats. That was whole point last night about offering Hudson to the Red Sox. All of these guys on here blasting me for it with their snide comments. The fact is Boston needs a starter if they have any chance of truly competing for the AL pennant. I guarantee they would be willing to take a chance on a guy who is having a very off year and has been a Cy Young award winner then they would the likes of Jason Johnson or as the Braves are currently doing with the AAA pitcher of the week. Some of these people on here just don’t get it.

By TommyB

July 30, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this

The Way It Looks Right Now

Just a snapshot. For several years now, I had been wishing the Braves would look a lot younger… bite a bullet or two and grow our best Minors into Majors. Last year was a big step in that direction. This year started off alright and then came June. Wow. I kept watching though and you all know when the turnaround began. During that stretch, something ignited in me… something that I hadn’t felt since 1991/1992. It grew and brought with it an irrestible urge to be at the ballpark (at huge expense, I might add as I have to buy 5 tickets to accomodate the wife and kids). Three games in this past week alone. Heck, on Friday, I even started exploring getting some (not five) season tickets for the rest of the ride. This “fire” keeps me spending most of my free time reading everything Braves related, and listening to MLB HomePlate whenever I’m commuting/in the car. It’s really gotten bad! (But I’ve loved every minute dearly.) That said, I think today… right now anyway… that it has to be All About Next Year from here on in. You’ve all catalogued the reasons why from within (Starting Pitching woes and Chipper going down again when he’s obviously become the Spark Plug this year, being the two biggest reasons). But there’s a reason without that we can’t ignore and that is the Marlins. Since May 22nd, the best team in the league. Overall, best ERA in the league. They’re all young guys and they won’t be fading.

If I had to bet today, and if I took off my red and blue glasses, I would have to put my money of the fanbase-poor Miami boys to win the Wild Card AND to take the pennant. Watch ‘em some more and see what you think. And remember that they have NEVER won the Division but they have won TWO World Series already. No one had given them a chance this year and look where they are now in the standings (WC and Division). If they re-arm offensively at all now, everybody else had better get ready. There. I feel much better now that I’ve externalized all this. Maybe I’ll feel a little less sad today than yesterday when I watch the game.

By Hal

July 30, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

Head coach

i noticed in a post above you said you were going to wait tell April to say it was over ,i think you meant to say August BUT i think April was more appropriate

It was over when JS failed to adress bullpen issues over the winter ,all of the moves since smack of panic

By the way been reading several Dodgers Blogs .The people on those blogs sure dont share the Aybar super prospect mind set .its more a good ridence mind set

By mariner

July 30, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Buehrle is in the final year of his contract. There is a club option for 2007 for 9.5 mil with a 1 mil buyout. Buehrle and Hudson may have similar stats, but their contracts are totally different. I don’t think the Red Sox would entertain a Crisp for Hudson trade based on their interest in Buehrle, because the 30 mil difference in contracts makes the situation incomparable.

By ssiscribe

July 30, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Forget the division. Totally put it out of your minds. The focus for this team has to remain the wild card, and the first step toward that goal is to go out and win today.

For all the gloom and doom and look ahead to next year out on this board, look at this: The Braves have eight weeks left, they are 6.5 games back of the Reds and play three games up there next weekend. Obviously, a sweep would help matters greatly. Winning two out of three would shave a game off the lead.

But the Braves have to get back to winning series. They can’t win this one, but one win is better than none. Pittsburgh isn’t that good, and the Reds series comes up after that. Time to rebuild some momentum.

As for the trade that, to some of you appears to have doomed the franchise for the next decade, chill. It’s over. It’s done. Betemit’s gone. We’re not talking Dale Murphy here, or even David Justice. We’re talking about a very good utility player who is blocked by two big names at his two natural positions, and a guy who has several key players coming up behind him in Pena, Prado and Escobar.

I know I sound like I’m preaching the party line, and some of you don’t want to hear it, but I honestly believe this: THE SEASON IS NOT OVER. Another two weeks of playing the way the team has played this weekend, and yes, it will be over.

As for Hudson, I don’t know what in the hell is wrong with him. DOB, is he hurt? His location sucks, plain and simple. He’s got to pitch like an ace if the Braves are going to make it to the playoffs. If he doesn’t pitch well down the stretch, then I think you have to ask some serious questions about his future as a Brave during the winter.

OK, time to win today and it’s on to Pittsburgh. Contrary to popular belief, it’s not Oct. 1, or even Sept. 1, or Aug. 1. It’s July. There’s still time, but it needs to begin today.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 30, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

Tommy, I somewhat agree with you. I have said most of the year that the Marlins remind me of the ‘91 Braves. They have young stud pitching and young hitters who are smart, strong, and ready to do whatever it takes to win.

The Braves as currently constructed can win. This team is simply underachieving. However, I think that if by next weekend we are not within 4 games or less of the wild card its time to give some of the young guys a shot. If Giles is still part of this team, he needs to start sitting and its time to call Prado up. Lets see if he has what it takes before spring training next year so if he doesn’t we won’t be in a pickle. Lets see what Aybar can do. He will get his chance I guess over the next 12 days or so until Chipper is off the DL. I say LaRoche continues to play everyday because he just may drive in 100 RBI. Thorman needs to play left most of the time. Designate Pratt for assignment and call Pena up give him some adequate playing time (he should be here no regardless). Send Pete Orr down to the minors or put him on waivers and see who bites at a trade for him and leave Tony Pena Jr. up. In September make sure Escobar is on the 40 man roster and gets some playing time.

One of two things will happen. Either a fire will be lit and this team will get hot and win the wild card or they will struggle fall out of playoff contention but the kids will get some playing time and can properly evaluted going up against major league talent. That is something quite honestly they don’t get in spring training because the starters are so protected.

No matter what happens this season some other things need to take place in the offseason. The number one project is Francoeur. He needs to learn plate discipline. I say give David Justice a call give him a little cash and have Francouer work out with him over the winter. Look, Francouer is never going to be like Chipper and take 100 walks a year, but if he learned how to work the count a little better and make the pitcher throw him a strike he will be so much better off. Also, I read where Chipper says he goes to the plate knowing what the opposing pitcher’s best pitch is and he sits on that pitch until he gets it. I think that is a great approach or even just sitting on a particular pitch in a particular location. Once he learns that this guy will be a MVP. Seriously!

The next project is Aybar. Teach him out to be a good power hitter. He already does a good job from what I can see and have read at taking pitches and working the count. He just needs to learn how to hit for power consistently. The Dodgers are idiots and hae been since Lasorda left. They say he wasn’t progessing at the rate they thought he should, but I gurantee that has more to do with the orginization than it does Ayar himself.

The next project fire McDowell and find a pitching coach who has got some “old school” in him. I hate to say it but Roger isn’t cutting it. Ramirez, Davies, James, McBride, Ray, Paronto, Yates, Stockman, and Berry should all be mandated to attend some sort of pitching clinic with the new pitching coach. And it shouldn’t be done a week before spring training starts. These guys need to learn how to use their talents to their advantge and keep the ball down. Leo could be difficult but the one thing he taught these guys was to keep the ball down and away and then surprise them with some inside gas. That is a good strategy. If it was a hitter like David Wright who likes the ball away then do the opposite. This crap of because a pitcher likes to pitch the ball inside so he pitches everyone inside is ludicrous. You don’t pitch to the hitters strengths.

Next project. Find out how serious Andruw is about staying a Brave. If he is for real, get him resigned before spring training ever starts. Any sale of the team should be done by then and management will have a good idea of what the payroll will be. (Sorry, this is so long; just have a lot to say.)

Next project. Get Chipper on some sort of workout program that will make him more flexible and less prone to injury. Make him stick to it.

Next project. Adam LaRoche. See Francoueur above.

Next project. Find a leadoff hitter and closer. Offer some prospects do whatever you have to do but get both. Baez or Wickman may not return. I’m betting a guy like Wickman would resign. He has always wanted to be with the Braves and doubt his stint here will be anything less than terrific. Bobby treats his guys right and they all love playing for him. (That is why I don’t dismiss the statements that Andruw and Chipper said they would retire if they couldn’t be Braves).

Last project. Make sure Kelly Johnson, John Foster, Blaine Boyer, and Joey Devine are 100% healthy. We are partly in the pickle we are in because all of those guys were figured in to the 2006 plans of the Braves and none of them have played except Devine which was what two outings. For the Braves to be successful all of these guys have to be ready to go next year.

Oh, and one last project. Todd Pratt and Brian Jordan are to not be on the active roster. Sit them both down and explain to them that their careers as players are over but the careers as good coaches is just beginning. Get them both signed and send them down to the minors. Pratt goes to Greenville to instruct the catchers (Salty) and Jordan goes to Rome and teach the yougsters what it means to be an Atlanta Brave and how to play the game hard and right. John Thomson’s option should not be picked up and any thought of doing it should be immediatedly disregarded. If Jorge Sosa is not already gone he should be. Chris Reitsma should be traded if anyone is stupid enough to take him and if not put him on waivers and eat the salary. He should never throw another pitch for the Braves.

Super project. If Hudson hasn’t been traded, do it in the offseason. Do it for him and the team. It just isn’t working out. Remember game one of the NlDS last year. I knew then the Braves were in trouble. Plenty of teams would be interested him despite what so many on this blog say. Field offers and take the one that is best in the short term and long term. If Hudson wants to stay a Brave then put him on warning right now that he has two months to prove it. If he pitches like he is supposed to we are going to our 15 consecutive playoffs. If not send him on his way.

Thank you.

By dadgum

July 30, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

I looked real hard at Tim Hudson’s pitching form yesterday and I have to say the dude is way off balance with his weight just prior to delivery. After delivery his weight has fallen way off the center point of the stride area. This equates to leaving the ball up or overall poor location not to mention an even worse fielding position after release.

Hey I’m not trying to play Roger McDowell here but I do work with high school pitchers and notice some errors in his form which may be causing his inability to consistently keep the ball low in the strike zone. Form = Consistency. Maybe he was worse yesterday with this than others but his track record this year says otherwise.

Play back the game tape and you will see. A pitcher needs to imagine a straight line from 2nd base to home. Weight stays centered on that line, eyes look through left shoulder down that line to the plate. Ball comes from 2nd base so to speak down that line. Thus everything is centered so that the form will allow the different pitches to be as accurate as possible. Hudson’s problem as I see it is that his weight is toward the Braves’ dugout and not as centered as it should be. Hey maybe I am crazy but that is my take. We have to come up with some answers now don’t we.

Hey even if Huddy gets back to pitching like a #1 starter we will still need another arm in the rotation. We’ll see.

What hath Kolb wrought!!!!!

By Lew

July 30, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this

Everyone here makes good points. Head Coach-I know you don’t think much of my opinion, but I do agree with you somewhat. I really believe that the pitching has so many holes that there’s no way to fill them all before this season is a wash. Sure Hudson and Horacio could step up and become their usual selves, effective and consistent. Davies cvould come back in two weeks and be a world beater. Chuck James could have a religious awakening and become the second coming of Tom Glavine in his prime. Could happen. I haven’t seen anything at all to indicate that it will. Hudson’s problems seem to be ingrained. It has been a long time since he has shown anything to indicate it will be turned around, much less what to do to turn it around. Horacio, I think has the ability to become a very good pitcher. However, he has to perform on a regular basis and it hasn’t happened. James has potential, but still hasn’t gone through the traditional get your brains kicked in portion of his career. I believe it will happen. You can’t count on Davies for consistency when you don’t even know if he is completely healed. I am also concerned about the Marlins. This is a team that was supposed to lose a 100+ games and be three years away. Man, was everyone wrong here. These kids are a lot better and closer than could have been imagined. I don’t think the Braves will ever give up, nor should they. I also don’t think JS has become addled all of a sudden. Everyone knows his trading history and knows the success of our minor league program and does not want to be his latest victim. I don’t know what the reason for the seeming disrespect of Wilson Betemit, but the organization obviously had some kind of problem with him and didn’t see the upside (amazing how a word keeps popping up) to him and he just wasn’t in their plans. Fact of life people, just get over it. Let’s see what Aybar brings, or not. Baez, too. I still don’t think the Red Sox will go for the Hudson-Crisp deal, but Jason thanks for the stats. Your argument is well reasoned and could happen. The Sox have the money, the insanity to do it and they also have the offense to make up for Hudson’s ERA. Ain’t Papi a monster?

By Eric Webb

July 30, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

Wow this blog is soooooooooooooooo slow, I think my computer started to smoke.

Does anyone on this blog agree that if we had Baez and/or Wickman all year, that we would be NO MORE than 5 games back in the East standings? I really think that we would be right there. If the guys are on there A game, we have far and away the best rotation in the East. And our offense has really gelled nicely with the mix of young guys and vets. Basically, I think J.S. tried to get away with a make-shift bullpen, and it came back to haunt him. Do I blame him? No. He’s done this several times in yrs past and has worked out ok. The stat I saw yesterday that stood out was the fact that the Mets have 4 relievers with eras under 3.00

They have a nice group of guys, and have made it easy on the rotation to not feel the need to go out and pitch 8 innings of shut-out ball every night. Cause lets face it, there rotation just isnt that great. Aside from an aged Glavine, and bad hip(?) Martinez, who scares you?

By TommyB

July 30, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

Robert (JIB):

I like your analysis. More below, but first I should probably clarify my earlier post and say that I wasn’t advocating “throwing in the towel” as of today and sitting all the older guys. I would however say that now would be a wonderful time to create some space in the rotation. One would think that there are some teams who are so desperate for pitching that they could take on Hudson’s contract. It’s worth the marketing effort, at least.

Your Francouer Project idea is interesting. If not Justice, somebody. Based upon the fact that I happened to be watching when Franky got both his first Real Walk and his first Intentional Walk, I probably soared into the outer realms of fantasyland and decided he was well on the road to better plate patience. The facts since then are a tad sobering.

I agree with you on the post-Lasorda Dodgers. TL was The Man. (I have to admit some partiality as I was living in Santa Monica in the early eighties just before moving to ATL. In those days… actually until the spring of ‘91… all Braves fans had to have another team or two to fall back on and the Dodgers were my #2.)

The McDowell Era: I am all over this one. I, too, had an open mind (but my Inner Paranoid was not so subtly poking me in the eye all season). I think everyone from McGuirk on down initially rationalized Leo’s departure as “not so bad! Hey, he won’t be so gruff on the poor Baby Braves.” For the past couple of months, that rationalization has melted into more of a Whistling Through the Graveyard state of mind. IMHO, Leo was MANY things and not one of those (save perhaps being kindler and gentler) has been matched, much less improved upon. Chief among them are: - The ability to analyze and correct problems with a pitcher’s process. - The ability to analyze an opponent’s pitching. - How to train the staff for longevity and DL-avoidance. - (and the only one you hear anyone talk about) How to teach a pitcher to pitch. It’s time to end the McDowell Era.

Regarding Chipper: I think someone earlier hit on it. I hope I’m wrong but I fear that there have been some “special vitamins” that have done their damage. I remember being at a Greenville Braves game in Knoxville in the early nineties. Soon as I sit down, I saw a lanky… heck, downright skinny Chipper Jones steal home. He has the telltale body-ballooning, as well as the telltale constant injury syndrome involving pulls, tears, etc.

It’s now time for a whiff or two of strong coffee.

And honestly, what are the chances of the Marlins deciding to fall apart? These guys have hearts like lions to do what they have done without fans.

So, in order for our guys to take the Wild Card, our problems have to be fixed. At a minimum, our starting rotation (outside Smoltz and James… that makes three out of five if I’m not as bad with math as I usually am) has to right itself. Huge IF. PLUS, either 1) Chipper comes back early, 2) returns to mid-July form and 3) Re-ignites the rest of the team offensively… OR they do it on their own. With either of those scenarios, the Marlins have to go into a tailspin.

Hey, I’m just about as Pollyannaesque as anyone on this Blog. (I admitted to my son Friday as we sat watching the Braves taking BP down at the Ted that I still thought they had a shot at the Division.) But, I think that after today’s game, Mr. Schuerholz should deal away all our problem folks that it’s possible to deal while the ‘gettin’ is good (meaning July 31 at midnight). And look to 2007.

Thanks, 2006 Braves, for more fun than I’ve had in a long time!

By Shawn B

July 30, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

Hal—Don’t know which blogs you’ve been reading, but on the LA Times blogs I haven’t seen anyone say good riddance to Aybar. Plenty of good riddance to Baez, sure, but not about Aybar. They are saying the same thing about him that DOB has reported here. Good looking young prospect, but a few years away and behind Betemit. Defense seems to be the only concern for Aybar, Dodger fans seem to think Aybar has a lot of potential with the bat. I would say the same goes for Betemit, sure he has a very strong arm, but his range and glove aren’t anywhere near being a future Gold Glover. He is a good offensive player, but wasn’t going to play anytime soon for the Braves, especially not at 2B, the only spot that will be open in the next year or two.

Good trade for the Braves…and the Dodgers. I just don’t understand the huge outcry here. Betemit is a UTILITY PLAYER with the Braves, and wasn’t going to be anything other than that for at least a few years, so why not get a reliever who was outstanding the last couple of years, and give him a change of scenery from LA. If he is effective again, the Braves may very well resign him, and then if Aybar ends up being, at the least, as good as Betemit, well, I would say this is a very good trade for the Braves.

And on another note, ESPN ranked the top 10 deadline deals the other day on Sportscenter. And what do you know, our “idiot” General Manager pulled off two of those top 10, including the #1 deal (Crime Dog in 93). I say that those that call a man who has, granted with the help of lots of other folks ( Bobby Cox not the least of those), changed the entire look of a franchise that was an absolute laughing stock (remember the 80’s anyone?), well I call those people idiots. Why can’t more of us appreciate the fact that the Atlanta Braves are admired by the rest of Major League Baseball for being a class organization that competes at a high level EVERY YEAR. It is sad that John S. gets a thousand times more respect from his peers than he does from the people that supposedly root for the organization that he has built from the rubble it was 15 years ago.

By mariner

July 30, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

Robert, Jason: I think Coco for Hudson is a makeable trade, just not straight up. Agree that Coco is their new Rent-a-Wreck. I think we need to give them a CF (Langerhans) and take back some salary (Clement - 9.5 mil next year) to make it work for both teams. Clement may also have Fenway disease and just need a return to the NL to get well. He is currently injured and not playing. Coco is owed 15.5 mil for the next three years. I think Hudson/Langerhans for Crisp/Clement could get it done. Langerhans will improve their CF defense and actually has hit a little better than Crisp, OPS at least. Their not getting anything out of Clement now, so Hudson at least being able to take the mound is an improvement. I’d give them Baez for free if it would seal the deal. The money is moore comparable now and I think both teams can actually improve by the trade.

By dadgum

July 30, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

McDowell is on a short term tryout but so is every new pitching coach. He has done nothing to date results wise to indicate that he is with us long term. However, if the pitchers like him and more importantly trust his tutelage he will succeed. Trust and listening go hand in hand. I think he knows what he is talking about but that has to be heard and implemented by those he is trying to help.

I don’t put all this on McDowell, in fact, I like him better than Leo (as do the players) but evntually when management starts dissecting the team during the off season he will be judged on his pitchers’ performance and developement. Given his low salary he will stay awhile especially in light of all the injuries that he has been saddled with in his 1st year. Roger McDowell is not the Braves’ main problem in fact it may not even be in the top 10.

May as well choose another blog topic because Roger Mac ain’t going anywhere.

By Don

July 30, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

One more bone to pick. The trade of Betemit was clearly finalized before Chipper went down once again and was to be announced after Friday night’s game. DOB’s assertion of the party line that the Braves could have backed out but didn’t, that they still liked the trade with Chipper down, is insulting to my intelligence. You can’t bail out of a trade once it’s completed if you want any other GM to deal with you again.

The Dodgers didn’t like Aybar enough to let him continue to fill gaping holes at second (Kent, injured) or third (Mueller, injured). They liked Aybar so much as a 3rd baseman that they sent him to the minors in June to take a crack at left field and plugged in a slap hitter at 3rd who was coming off the DL and had never played the position a day in his life. But the Braves are happy to fill Aybar in at 3rd for at least 2 weeks AND take up an extra roster spot by calling up a backup shortstop from the minors. Please, don’t pi$$ on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

What probably reeks about this most of all is having made these deals for Wickman and Baez, having essentially given away Betemit for a 2 month rental as if the Braves still have a good shot at the wild card, Schuerholz now can’t reverse course and try to dump Hudson and his overpriced contract at the trade deadline when somebody might be sucker/desperate enough to take him.

(By the way, I don’t fault Schuerholz for Hudson. How could anybody have anticipated a guy with Hudson’s resume and no apparent arm trouble would pitch like he was nearly finished at age 30? I thought we made a good deal for Hudson and signed him to a reasonable contract. Now he’s becoming the second coming of Russ Otiz. Pitch behind in the count, put a couple of guys on and then serve it up in the middle of the plate.)

Now we head toward next year with Hudson sucking up what, 12-15% of the payroll? That’s more than we can spend for an entire bullpen. And with Wickman and Baez moving on we’re going to be looking for almost an entire bullpen.

The Braves of the 90’s won with pitching. The projected Braves pitching staff for next year is a 40 year old number one starter and a bunch of question marks. We’ll have a 35 year old injury prone 3rd baseman with no major league quality backup and a hole at 2nd base we hope can be filled from the minors. And there sits Florida ahead of us, with a $15 million payroll and a pitching staff the Braves can only dream of.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 30, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

I think the Braves will have a hard time winning today but I think we will see just how good Chuck James is. He will step up today and do something our “ace” didn’t…..pitch a good game.

Have you noticed how many pitching injuries we have had this year. I hate to admit it but that has something to do with Leo not being here. How may times did our pitchers go on the DL when Leo was here. We have had three different starters on the DL and one of them (Thomson) has been there three times! How many times in the previous 14 years that we have three pitchers (starters or relievers) go on the DL? I like McDowell. He just isn’t getting it done. Tommy, you’re right. Leo studied their mechanics and immediatedly fixed the problems.

One other problem this team has is that guy that can just explode and get in some people’s a**. In the early ’90s it was Pendelton and Justice. After those guys left no one took that role. I don’t necessarily think its Chipper’s or Andurw’s job to do that just because they are the “stars”. Often that guy on a team isn’t the star. It often takes one of the role players to do it. I believe that McCann or LaRoche (yes, I said LaRoche) would be those guys but they are afraid to speak up. They shouldn’t be. Call out the veterans and anyone else. No matter what you think about LaRoche you have to admit he has been a standup guy about his flaws and mistakes. In any event there needs to be someone in that clubhouse who busts up a couple of water coolers, cracks a few bats against a locker, rip out a hand towel dispenser, punch a hole in the wall (with the non throwing hand, of course), or goes off on a 20 minute obscenity laced tirade. This team is too even kieled. Don’t get your nuts handed to you by the Mets and then just walk off the field as if you lost a friendly card game. Throw some gloves and bats. Don’t compliment the Mets on them being a good team. Admit they are a good team and then admit that you are not playing up to your level. Get mad. Ask yourself this question. Would Derek Jeter just “take it”? Would Albert Puljos just “take it”? Would Big Pappi just “take it”? No. They would go straight off and I gurantee the next day you would see the results. I remember back in the early ’90s…93 to be exact. The team wasn’t doing well. They were struggling and had fallen behind the Giants big time. Pendleton, Gant, Glavine, and Justice called a closed door meeting. I remember Pete Van Wiren saying that lots of yelling and crashing sounds were heard. Lots of four letter words and bats being slammed agaisnt walls. Bobby Cox and the coaches were no where around. Just the players. And, well, the rest is history. The same needs and must happen now.

By Don

July 30, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

Yeah, Jeter would just “take it”. Pujols would just take it. They’re both professionals. I’ve never bought into this myth that the Braves don’t play with enough emotion or don’t care. Bobby Cox has proven that even keel works over 162 games, as has Joe Torre with the Yankees.

The problem with the Braves is that you win with pitching and their pitching sucks. Screaming at Hudson or Ramirez or Sosa to pitch better isn’t going to accomplish a damn thing.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 30, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

Well, I don’t think just sitting there acting like “its not that bad” doesn’t do anything either. I’m not necessarily one for screaming tirades but sometimes that is what works. I personally don’t think this team has a lot of emotion. Most of the time Andruw strikes he just walks away like “ho hum”. I love Andruw but sometimes he is TOO laid back. All I’m saying is that sometimes emotion is good. This isn’t football or basketball where its a must, but sometimes one of those closed door meetings gets the juices pumping. Believe me I have heard that even Joe Torre has gone on a rant or two.

By mike

July 30, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

Have not posted for a while so I thought I would throw in my two cents. The shots at McDowell are not worthy. If a guy has not learned how to pitch by the time he gets there what can a pitching coach show him. It appears to me it is more about scouting reports, hitters strengths and weaknesses. DOB where you right and I stand corrected on LaRoche. His whole game has been turned up. Giles should have been charged with an error on the grounder yesterday just my opinion. His whole body language tells me he is frustrated. Overall I think this years team is more of a flash of what they could have been, could be or will be. We are all impatient bravo fans and hope it is the latter two. Headed to the game so lets go and get at least one.

By Stanford

July 30, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

DOB, just for the record, I actually went to AtlantaBraves.com and quoted the article about Sosa from that site (which of course is the same as mlb.com). I assumed AtlantaBraves.Com to be a reasonable source for Atlanta Braves news. At least I “cited my source” as they say, but I’ll leave the news reporting to the Professionals and just spout stupid opinions from here on out.

By the way, Chip and Lemke report today that Sosa has been dfa’d…. oops, there I go again.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Don: That’s pretty true on Hudson. But I think he makes 6 million next year. So its less than 10% of the payroll. But he’s untradable now. Or at least, his value is shot. The Braves won’t trade him until the off-season, or maybe next years dead-line. I’m hoping he turns his stuff around enough to improve his value. I fear, however, that he’ll turn it around enough to convince the front office to keep him. Then, next year, be right back where he is now, further wrecking his value.
He came to the Braves with the second best winning percentage of active pitchers. Right behind Pedro. He has not pitched with that level of skill but a handfull of times since he’s been here. Still though, we got him for Juan Cruz and Chuck James. It’s not an entire loss.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

Check these numbers out:
W L ERA GS
2 4 5.54 9
7 17 4.56 34
10 12 4.28 33

That was 3 of Glavines first 4 years.

W L ERA GS
2 4 5.52 5
6 14 5.61 27

That is Maddux first two years.

I post these because some seem to forget and then complain that Davies, or James, aren’t doing well enough to merit comparisons. They have a lot of work to do, no doubt. But we could be starting next year with a 40 year old great starter, and two young studs with the ability to really take off. Even Scott Kazmir was a little rocky at the beginning. Next years staff has the potential to be real good.

By Tonight on TBS

July 30, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

The Motorcycle Diaries (2004)

The incredible true story of a 26 year old (or is he 24?) utility infielder of the Atlanta Braves, Wilson ‘Che’ Betemit (yes, that Che, played here by Gael Garcia Bernal)who motorcycled from Atlanta to Los Angeles along with his best friend journalist Jimmy Smith (himself), baby seaal in tow. The trek became a personal odyssey that ultimately crystallized his baseball philosophy as he became a Dodger and beloved cult figure. Based on Jimmy Smith’s diaries of the trip.

By Don

July 30, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, you’re right on Hudson’s salary next year. I was thinking the escalation was more gradual. It’s $6 million next year and $13 million in 2008 and 2009 with what looks to be a likely $1 million buyout for 2010 given Hudson’s current path. The contract was obviously written with Smoltz rolling off after 2007 in mind and assumed that Hudson would be a Smoltz-quality #1 starter as he was in Oakland.

Even though the impact on next year’s payroll isn’t as bad as I thought, with the big 2008 and 2009 numbers coming it still limits the Braves to looking at one year rentals for 2007. If Hudson doesn’t get back to his old form and we’re stuck paying $13 million of an $80 million payroll in ‘08 and ‘09 for a #1 starter who is pitching like a #5, we can kiss the postseason goodbye unless there is a young Smoltz, Glavine and Avery coming up out of our farm system that we don’t know about.

Who are the promising young pitchers that have come through the Braves system since Glavine, Avery and Jason Schmidt? Or the young prospects acquired in trade like Smoltz? Maybe Wainwright, who is in St. Louis as part of the J.D. Drew rental. Maybe Chuck James, but I doubt it. Surely not Horacio Ramirez, who I think threw the most home run balls in the NL a couple of years ago.

We rode the Glavine/Maddux/Smoltz horse as long as we could and filled in around it. Then we did it with smoke and mirrors for a few years but didn’t have a team that could get out of the first round. Now we’re looking at serious ugliness on the pitching staff. Looks to me like we’ve hollowed out the core in the area of pitching, and when you can’t spend like the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Mets you can’t do that. If you’re taking the low to mid budget approach, you’ve got to value young starting pitching above all else. Florida and Minnesota are examples. And the late 80’s, early 90’s Braves are probably the best example. We kept that pitching and paid for it and filled in around it as best we could.

If the Braves want to win with an $80 million payroll, I’d like to see them take it down to $40-$50 million and then fill in selectively with some 2 or 3 big contracts when they know where the holes are. If you stay locked in at $80 million or close to it you have no flexibility, as we’ve seen with this year’s pitching debacle.

By JasonInMaine

July 30, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Dig out the brooms boys…the fat lady is singing already. Wow, how depressing after getting your butt kicked yesterday to come out and be down 3 runs before you even get to bat. When is the last time the Braves developed a good young pitcher that was good right off of the bat? James is 4-1, but is ERA in July is about 9. Look at the Red Sox with Lester, Paplebon, Hanson, and they have more on the way. What happened to the Braves’ ability to develop good young pitchers? It hasn’t been around for a while.

Regards,

Jason

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

July 30, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

You know what this beat down the Braves have endured this weekend (whether they win today or not) is the best thing that could happen to them and will propel them into being the wild card champion. The looked past Florida to get to this series because they felt they still had a chance to win the divison. The one thing that has been established this weekend is that the Braves aren’t going to win the divison. It belongs totally to the Mets. So, now the Braves can concentrate on winning the wild card and getting rid of this ridiculous notion. JS has joked (sort of) that he wanted to be smart enough to build a wild card winner. Well, pal, you have 24 more hours to make some deals and fulfill your dream.