AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > July > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves and Yanks discussing Betemit trade
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Wilson Betemit’s power surge couldn’t have come at a better time for the Braves, who might further bolster their bullpen by trading him before Monday’s non-waiver trade deadline.
Someone very familiar with the discussions confirmed to me today that the Braves and Yankees are discussing a deal that would bring reliever Scott Proctor to Atlanta for Betemit, first reported this morning by the New York Post.
While my first reaction was — who will play third base if Chipper is hurt? — the more I looked at this potential deal, the more I liked it. First off, let me tell you that Martin Prado would probably be brought up to back Chipper unless and until the Braves acquire another who can fill the role, which they’re also pursuing right now.
Proctor is 29, throws hard, and would go a long way toward solidifying the bridge between the starters and newly acquired closer Bob Wickman, who threw two perfect innings in his first two games since arriving from Cleveland.
Proctor is 3-2 with a 3.94 ERA in 50 appearances this season, with 60 strikeouts, 23 walks and a .226 opponents’ average. He’s 0-for-5 in saves, but that’s not really pertinent because he’s a setup guy and hasn’t been used in traditional save opportunities.
What’s most attractive is the shut-down stuff he’s had lately. He’s been devastating on hitters since the All-Star break, allowing just three hits and no walks with 12 strikeouts in nine scoreless innings over seven games. Opponents have hit .103 against him since the break.
The Yankees are looking for someone to fill in and provide some power at second base while Robinson Cano continues to recover from a pulled hamstring, which already kept him out a month and will probably sideline him another two weeks.
Three others who’ve played second base for the Yankees have produced just one homer and 19 RBIs in 110 at-bats this season.
Betemit, who turns 26 on Friday, has hit .284 with nine homers and 29 RBIs in 197 at-bats this season, including .310 with three homers and 11 RBIs in 10 games since the break. He’s split time between second base, third base and shortstop this season, and the former top-rated prospect has handled himself well at each position.
They wouldn’t just give up Betemit for anyone, but for an experienced reliever to add to a ‘pen that desperately needs one more, they probably would. But the move probably hinges on the Braves landing another third baseman, either before the deadline or in a waiver deal after the deadline.
But in the interim, they believe they can get by at third base, even if Chipper misses a few more days with his strained oblique. The Braves have two very good prospects — Prado at Richmond and Yunel Escobar at Mississippi — who’ve played some third base this season, and this is a big reason why they have.
Prado seems the more likely choice, since he’s already gotten his feet wet in the majors this season and impressed Bobby Cox and the Braves during his brief time with them. He’s hit .304 with eight doubles, no homers and 13 RBIs in 33 games at Richmond, after batting .278 with nine extra-base hits (one homer) and 15 RBIs in 43 games at Mississippi.
Prado has played 50 games at second base and 26 at third base this season.
Betemit, who turns 26 on Friday, is having a strong season, but is blocked behind Jones at third base and Giles at second, at least for this season. Giles’ recent thumb injury and subpar production this season kept trade interest in the veteran second baseman to a minimum.
The Braves don’t see Betemit as a natural fit at second base — he’s a bit oversized for the position — especially when they have Prado at the ready. The powerful Escobar is a shortstop or third baseman, not a second baseman.
In Proctor, the Braves would get a reliever who appears to be a late bloomer just now coming into his own, at 29. The former Florida State standout is only in his second full season in the majors and wouldn’t be eligible for arbitration until after the 2007 season, which makes him that much more attractive to a Braves organization that has never liked lavishing too much money on its ‘pen.
He was a fifth-round draft pick from the Dodgers in 1998 and spent six seasons in the minors with the Dodgers and Yankees, who got him in a 2003 trade along with outfield Bubba Crosby in exchange for Robin Ventura.
Proctor’s recent surge followed a rough stretch in the month before the break, when he allowed 23 hits, 14 runs, five homers and seven walks in 18-2/3 innings over 17 appearances.
A few days’ rest at the break apparently rejuvenated the right-hander, who has been a key part of the Yankeees’ bullpen, rated fifth in the AL.
Proctor has good numbers in areas the Braves need them, including a .194 opponents’ average by first batters (18-for-93), a .224 average with runners in scoring position, and a .210 mark (22-for-105) in late-and-close situations.
If the Braves get him, their bullpen will have been transformed in one week from one of the worst in the NL to potentially one of the best five or so for the stretch drive.
Comments
By Sam
July 26, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
So who is the most likely option to come in and back up at 3B if it’s not someone off the farm? I know BC loves Vinny but he, and his s…l….o…w bat, need to stay far, far away from the Braves roster.
By Bob in SF
July 26, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this
Ask the Brewers how their “late bloomer” Turnbow is doing after being in the bigs for a year. Bad deal.
By MT
July 26, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
DOB—I’m surprised to hear about these rumors. Not that they’re not true, but Schuerholz is usually so tight-lipped and expects (and gets) the same of his employees. For instance, no one had heard a thing about the Wickman trade until it happened. How frustrating is that as a beat writer for the team?
On the proposed Proctor trade, I don’t like it as much. You pointed out his inconsistency, and that’s my main problem. For as good as he’s been since the AS break, he was just as bad before it. I fear that we’re giving up a potential star for a middle reliever who may or may not be any good. I recognize that we need relief help, but I just wish we could get it through a different deal.
By Andy
July 26, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
wb has to be dealt. thanks dave.
By Adam
July 26, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
I cringe at the thought of trading Betemit away with the way he’s been filling in, not only with his bat, but with his glove. But it’s obvious that we need more bullpen help and I wouldn’t be upset to see a guy like Proctor come here. Although I would like to see us get a little more than just Proctor, is that a possibility DOB, or are the talks just Betemit for Proctor straight up.
By 22oz
July 26, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
We definitely need more help in the pen, but i hate to see betemee go somewhere where he won’t be a full time starter. plus, i don’t know if we should be trying to break in any more minor leaguers at this crucial point of the season. maybe the yanks would take one of our surplus of minor league middle infielders. glad i’m not the gm…
By Dr. Jay
July 26, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
Yeesh…this one makes me nervous. We’re gonna trade a former number one prospect for a set-up guy who’s been hot for the last few weeks? PLEASE trade Giles and prospects…not Betemay, uh Betty Meat, er, Buttered Rum - oh the h#ll with it.
By bigboi
July 26, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this
Sounds great!!! I just wish we could get more for Willie B. and our leadoff spot is still not solved unless…..something else is in the works. DOB have you heard anything about us acquiring Slammin’ Sammy Sosa to play left and platoon at first?
By JAYSEN
July 26, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this
I don’t like trading major league talent for any sort of bullpen help (except closers). Especially inconsistent ones.
By BB FAN
July 26, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
I guess it would be a good trade. Giles is starting to hit well anyway. And Chipper will supposedly be back tomorrow or Friday.
I just hope the Braves make the right move to make room in the pen for Proctor. They need to get rid of Sosa, not anybody else. And I hope Cox doesn’t pull that veteran bulls/hit and say Sosa deserves the benefit of the doubt because of last year. I am so sick of Cox doing that.
By Khamsin
July 26, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this
Trading already?
We just figured out how to pronounce his name ^_^
Wilson’s been hot lately, especially on offense. Don’t let him go!
By Khamsin
July 26, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
Oops…meant defense, but either way he’s a keeper :)
By dylan
July 26, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
lol Bob every late bloomer isnt derek turnbow. this is is a tough move to make a call on it boils down to this does our need for a proven reliever outway our need for a proven backup to chipper thats a tough call and one that makes me glad I am not a GM. What is more valuable a backup infielder that gets playing time because of injuries or a relief pitcher that will pitch on inning a game at his best. I could go either way and make strong cases for both ultimately it will be schuerholz that decides my hope is he takes more then a relief pitcher and also gets a minor leaguer or two out of the deal after all if the royals can get 2 minor leaguers and Odalis Perez for s****y as elmer dessens then we should be able to drive the price up on our backup infielder. BTW I would have given the dodgers sosa and thompson for that package.
By AJK
July 26, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
DOB: If the Yanks are looking for 2B help, why not trade Giles for Proctor? Wouldn’t the Braves rather make that trade?
By Carroll
July 26, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
Wait a minute here….you mean to tell me we just got a bona-fide major league closer for an obscure A level prospect, but we’re gonna give up a proven major league player on the rise for a 30 y/o “late blooming” middle reliever? This deal smells like…sniff…sniff…wait…did someone take a Reitsma up in here?!
By Carroll
July 26, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this
I also read that the Braves have interest in Conine the Barbarian. I have always thought he’d be a good fit in the Atl. He could spell Chipper at 3rd and Roach at first AND play some LF.
By Dr. Jay
July 26, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
Man, do I hope the Sammy Sosa buzz dies soon. We already have one Sosa too many. He’s a prima donna chump, WAY past his prime. Remember how he left his final game as a Cub? He left before the game was over, and one of his teammates destroyed his clubhouse boombox with a bat. We need pitching, not bats.
By BB FAN
July 26, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
It does sound like a lot to give up for a relief pitcher, but the bullpen does need help. Maybe the Braves should get a minor league pitcher thrown in because Proctor has been so streaky. He started the season well, then had a horrible run just before the break and now he is great again. So who knows what to expect. Relief pitchers are tough to figure out.
By Brent
July 26, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
MT,
Plenty of people were talking about Wickman the last 2 weeks before the trade was made.
It was noted, I’m not sure where, that the Braves had scouts at Indians’ games.
By Mac Thomason
July 26, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
When will the Braves ever learn to stop giving away valuable properties for relievers who have no track record of extended success? Dan Kolb had a more extensive track record than Proctor.
By Aleem
July 26, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
This trade scares the crap out of me. I seriously hope the Yanks don’t somehow turn around and flip Betemit for Linebrink. That would hurt. Although the whole Proctor being under our control for longer is somewhat encouraging, he doesn’t seem like enough for Wilson…
By journalist jimmy smith
July 26, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
procky? procto? procsy? bad fit. don’t trade bait-a-meat.
By Tony Almeida
July 26, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
Bad Deal. We should trade Betemit for Pujols. Make it happen JS.
By tigger101023
July 26, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
If you disregard the most recent performnances, Linebrink is a much better reliever than Proctor. He has a much better track record. Why in the world do you pass on Linebrink for a guy like this? Sure he’s supposedly a flame thrower, but he has a fairly bad ERA in the last 2 years and he gave up TEN homers in less than 45 innings last year. TEN. And 5 HR is 25 innings the year before. I certainly hope this year isn’t an aberration, which isn’t exactly an awesome homer rate, either.
I don’t like this trade. It reeks of panic to me. I guess I should trust the Braves’ scouts if they like Proctor better than Linebrink, but if they’re just been cheap, I’d rather keep Betemit.
Besides, it’s not our concern, but poor Betemit has no place in NY except to bump Nick Green off the roster. We all know he’s not every going to be a regular there. I really hate it for him.
By bushwacker
July 26, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
You’ve got to be kidding, your going to trade an “everday player who hits over 300 and plays 3 different positions” for a set up man. A set up man that has picthed 9 good innings? WB is going to be our starting 2nd baseman before the season is over. Trade Giles not WB.
By Vol
July 26, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
I don’t like it as much as Giles in place of Betemit (thinking of next year too). Is there any chance of that since the Yanks are immune to salary constraints?
I wonder if this leak is to put pressure on the Padres to help us get Linebrink instead.
By Ken Stallings
July 26, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
The Braves are still not at .500 and this would rank as the worst trade since Brett Butler and Brook Jacoby were traded for Len Barker!
Wilson Betemit is an outstanding fielder and hitter. Frankly, I would rather Chipper be traded for a top reliever than Betemit. Chipper has only a few more years left and the injury bug is starting to show his age.
The Braves cannot afford to trade their best youth for missing pieces. What angers me is that for a bit more money quality relief pitchers were available in the off season. If the proper moves were made then, the Braves would be well placed for the post season armed with the bullpen they should have had all year.
By Mitchell
July 26, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
I read the New York Post article as well. Judging by what the article said, I don’t think that there’s much of a chance that this deal will get done. It says clearly in the article that Schuerholz was in talks with other teams as well, involving players with more ‘experience’ who are probably more attractive. From a price angle this is probably the trade to make; but from a talent angle the cost vs. reward doesn’t feel too good.
Betemit, former top rated prospect, has come into his own as well. He has shown that he has the ability to play high-caliber baseball, and I think he demands high-caliber talent in return. The article stated that other teams were pursuing Betemit; if it’s a seller’s market, I would like to see more of a Marquee name mentioned in these trade talks. Not the late blooming set-up man who’s barely pitched in the Majors for two years.
By steven p
July 26, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
DON’T DO IT! Every time the Bravos trade away a position player they shine even brighter, and we always get crap in return. Betemit has always hit well in the majors - send Giles instead. Everyone knows he’s eventually going to San Diego anyway.
By geauxbraves2000
July 26, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
The Braves cannot simply give Betemit away. I don’t want him traded period, but if he is, JS better be getting some ML talent, not subpar talent, not 9 innings talent, I’m talking almost finishing his career in the HOF talent.
By H_Charles
July 26, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this
Put me in the nervous about the trade camp. Most middle relievers, Proctor included, are way too up and down to trade a bddding star like Betemit for. If you aren’t going to get one of the few consistent set-up guys in the bigs, the deal isn’t worth it. Proctor has never amounted to much until this year, and there’s a good chance he won’t again next year. Trading Betemit has “Jermaine Dye” written all over it, so let’s get something more reliable for him!
By Dawgs2006
July 26, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this
PLease…..take Giles! You can almost count on him grounding into a double play or striking out looking in key times of the game. He needs to go.
By sam
July 26, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this
Proctor is nice but he’s not worth an on the rise 25 year old infielder who will be under a team’s control for 4 more years. I like Proctor but I’d want more for Betemit.
By Ted
July 26, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
Please not Proctor. If they go cheap by trading Betemit for Proctor rather than someone like Linebrink, the Braves will deserve to watch their post-season streak end.
How’s late bloomer Aaron Small doing with the Yanks this year? Or, as someone else said, Turnbow? Or, for that matter, most other late bloomers. The guy is 29 and only in his 2nd season for a reason - he isn’t good but is having a lucky year. The Braves can look to their current bullpen to find plenty of “late bloomers”. Heck, last year, Proctor managed a stunning 6.05 ERA.
So, I hope this is only a NY tabloid rumor and something JS seriously isn’t considering. Again, if you’re trading for BP help, and you must trade Betemit, why not Linebrink, a guy who many think can be a closer, a guy with a career ERA of 3.10 and whose salary ($1.365 M) isn’t cheap, but it isn’t obscene either - and if you can get him for $3-4M next year (the price of FA middle relievers last year), someone you can make into the closer in ST (i.e. pay MR price and then make him closer in ST) since Wickman is a free agent.
But if this is true and the Yankees get Betemit for Proctor, you’d have to give Cashman credit for pulling a fast one on JS, which all Braves fans will realize due to Proctor’s issues with the long ball (gives up 1 HR every 6 IP this year and in his career - which is worse than good ole Sosa has done in his career).
So I truly hope this isn’t true. This would be a BAD, BAD mistake.
By Jason
July 26, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
DO IT. DO IT. As much as I hate the @#()$*@#)@#$ Yankees, DO IT. DO IT NOW!!!! I love Wilson and the whole controversey surrounding his last name, and he’s a great slugger, but man, we need middle relief like fat people need tums after going to a buffet. Doing business with the Evil Empire usually tends to benefit them, but for once, this seems to be a great deal. DO IT!!!
By Kevrock
July 26, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
We really need to trade Giles. Betemit is looking like he has the talent to become a star. This trade, if it does happen, could come back to haunt us like the Jason Schmidt & Jermain Dye trades of the past.
Proctor stats are not that great…He might be a little hot right now but who knows when he changes leagues.
By George Fett
July 26, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
Please don’t trade Betemit. What a talent. He is fun to watch, a hell of a defensive player, and knows his role and plays it well (that of back up). Solidify the bullpen another way. Trade Betemit? think Jermaine Dye (possible MVP and former Brave)…that is the kind of offensive talent that Betemit is and probably a better defensive player b/c he is an infielder.
By shawn
July 26, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
dear God don’t do it. WB SHOULD be starting in front of Giles. Move Chipper to the outfield but don’t trade a guy who has been a perfect leadoff man, is 26, takes pitches, has power, and great defense. Not a true second basemen? So what his defense has been solid. A middle innings pitcher is not worth that. Move Giles, move Thompson, Davies, Satch, Langerhans, Sosa, Thorman, Diaz try for Zito/Willis and use Ramirez or James in the bullpen. WB is still low on the salary as well.JS do not mortage the future on a maybe run at the playoffs. This is shortsided and the Yankess had better throw in someone else or this just plan reeks.
By chris
July 26, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Why wasn’t Betemit ever considered for left field? This deal could work they if, as you mentioned, they address the bench and get some veteran help.
By Tony Almeida
July 26, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
Harold Reynolds can back up Chipper at third. Just keep Harold away from the bat girls.
By Jeff
July 26, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
Wes Timmons was playing third beautifully and batting .316 (with a lot of clutch hits) at RBraves before he broke his thumb in May. I hope he comes back strong-he’s ABraves quality.
By tradechipper
July 26, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
TRADE CHIPPER INSTEAD!
By TT
July 26, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this
Bad move in my opinion. A journeyman relief pitcher for Betemit? I already think Betemit is better than Giles. I know Giles’ salary is probably an issue, but you can still play the best man for the job.
Our bullpen almost always stinks. What is it always made up of? Journeyman relief pitchers. Grybos, Kenny Rays, Moylans, Lightenbergs, the latest from the California Penal League. Let’s face it, we need proven relievers in their prime or young pitchers with great stuff in the pen. Otherwise we might as well stay with what we have. The problem is that they cost money and we don’t like to spend it there.
By TDub
July 26, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
Not buying it. Cashman’s not that good and JS is not that gullible. Sounds like a negotiation ploy to me.
Speaking of Cashman, how does this guy get a rep as being one of the best? You don’t need to be a genius to win with a $200 million payroll. Heck, I’d argue that you’d have to be an idiot to not get to the WS every year with a $200 million payroll.
By Voice Of Reason
July 26, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this
DOB is talking baseball on 680 the Fan right now…
By Chop Chop
July 26, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this
Amen, Ted. I don’t want Proctor. He’s taken over the “Tanyon Sturtze” role (go out there whenever Joe wants you to and try not to give up more than a run) in the Yankee ‘pen. Torre runs him out there all the time and, while Proctor has been striking guys out this year, he’s certainly not a good enough pitcher to get in return for a player as useful as Wilson Betemit.
By buff
July 26, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Here’s a better idea, let’s make the Yankees better (UGHHH) and see if they’ll give us Farnsworth back so he can suck it up along with Sosa. That sounds like a better idea…
By A.J.
July 26, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Giles doesn’t ground into DPs more than anyone else on the team. Everyone grounds into DPs sometimes, and Giles has only done so 6 times this season. Other than the 6 games after the break, the Braves as a whole, not just Giles, have a problem of DPs to end rallies. Example, Renteria last night in the 9th. That has been as big a problem for the Braves as the bullpen. When the Braves have been terrible half of our games were being blown by the bullpen, and the other half we only had 4 hits or we had 10 hits and 6 DPs in a game. I’m encouraged recently but I’m not convinced of the Braves ability to hit consistantly (other than AJ, McCann and Francoeur) esp. with runners on. Our bullpen does stink, but in a lot of ways they share the same problem as the hitters, good stuff, just inconsistant control. And without consistant hitting (that’s not just LaRoche and Chipper homering all the time, but more importantly, not stranding the runners we have in tight games.
By BIGG DADDY DOGG
July 26, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
WWWWWWhat are the BRAVES F——ing CRAZY???? WILSON BETEMIT is the future of this team! chipper and andrew may play another three to five years. His bat and glove are going to make him a star. But maybe what was said about the braves wanting to keep and pay black players is true. Just ask david justice and deion sanders (plantation mentality). for those who may say andrew is black, he will tell you he is hispanic. I like to think that none of what I have said is true?
By Lee
July 26, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
Just when we started pronouncing his name correctly!
By Tony Almeida
July 26, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this
BRING BACK ROCKER!!!!
By Steve
July 26, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
No way I trade Betemit for bullpen help. Aside from Edgar, Betemit has been the most consistent hitter we have had all season. He can play 3 infield positions. He is the kind of player every team would like to have. I would have to get a lot more than a middle reliever to trade him away.
By Dave nockahomer
July 26, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
Can’t trade Chipper…he has been too prone to injury….darn it! But to give up Wilson for some guy named Proctor who seems to go on streaks of bad and then good. Wilson is far tooooo valuable for any team to be traded for Proctor. Dang, I sure hope the rumor mill is wrong, very WRONG! Stupid, is what it is! We need him for next year after we get rid of Giles. Some say he is too big for 2nd. Didn’t look like he had any trouble playing that spot!
Yes, we need some help in the set up role but we need a BETTER set up guy for the price of Wilson Betemit! We have no one to take over for injury prone Chipper or injury prone Giles…..not with the power and defensive ability of Wilson. Surely JS ain’t that stupid!
Hey, has anyone noticed how thin Giles is this year? Last year, he had a chest and bigger thighs. This year, he is thin…hmmmmmmm….betcha I know why.
By Ol'timer
July 26, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
THIS MAN IS A SUPER STAR IN THE MAKING, AND WE’RE ONCE AGAIN TALKING ABOUT GETTING RID OF SOMEONE OF HIS CALIBER FOR AN ERRATIC, STREAKY PITCHER. FOR GOODNESS SAKE, CHIPPER PROBABLY WON’T BE HERE MUCH LONGER BECAUSE HIS INJURIES ARE ONE RIGHT AFTER THE OTHER, AND HERE’S A GUY THAT PLAYS THE POSITION AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER, IS HEALTHY, AND NOW THAT HE IS GETTING REGULAR PLAYING TIME, HE IS SWINGING A BIG BAT! WHEN ARE WE GOING TO QUIT GIVING OUR SUPER PROSPECTS AWAY FOR GUYS WHO ARE “FLASHES IN THE PAN”!!! COME ON JOHN, YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THAT………
By buff
July 26, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
Betemit is worth way more than Proctor’s mediocre a$$…
By Big Bree
July 26, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
Didn’t this whole offensive outburst get started with Betemit in the leadoff spot? The more WB plays the more he shows us why we drafted him and kept him around this long. Why are we grooming players for other teams to benefit from now. Give up somebody who’s already had a chance to prove himself but hasn’t completely gotten the job done.
I think JS is underestimating WB’s value, no matter how much help we need in the bullpen. If this trade happens straight up for Proctor and the Braves don’t get to the Series (I won’t say win yet because so much else matters there) then this trade will not sit well with a lot of Braves fans, especially me!
By michael m beard
July 26, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
The Braves are stupid as hell if they trade Wilson. Why don’t they get rid of Giles. They seem to want to have a lilly white team. Wilson is a much better hitter that Giles and plays good defense.
Michael
By mcdwag
July 26, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
when i saw that castilla was released i immediatly cringed-yes he has a solid glove but the guy simply cannot hit anymore-would not be surprised to see castilla back with the braves if betiment is dealt
By David
July 26, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
Just sya no to trading Betemit.Proctor is not worth it.I for one would rather package Thorman plus for pen help.Thorman,laRoche and KJ will not all start next season.Trade Thorman
By Carroll
July 26, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Big Daddy: Wilson is also hispanic.
By TimK
July 26, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
I don’t like this deal. I like seeing Betemit in the lineup and honestly think he could be the future at second.
By clyde
July 26, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Please don’t trade away more young talent for more bullpen help. Betemit is a superstar.
By David
July 26, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
I don’t care in the least that Wilson Betemit get shipped out as long as your getting back Alex Rodriguez in return. If you’re not going to get A-Rod for Betemit, then the trade is worthless because Betemit is the face of the Braves, along with Francour and their new relief pitcher. Smoltz and Chipper are just about washed up and you’ll need to bring in young thoroughbreds to help this sinking franchise get back to the winning track again. As of now, they are struggling just to get to .500. They got wiped out last night and they might have gotten closer to the Mets yesterday, but the Braves powerhouse lineup couldn’t muster up more than one run so they had to take an “L”. Its so sad to watch the Braves continue their fall from grace. The Braves were once mightier than the sword and now they look like they have fallen off the cliff, the wagon, etc. They just look like they have no direction and that they are just barely trying to survive! I hope and pray that this sinking franchise will get off the mat and at least get back to .500; I don’t care if they make the playoffs anymore; I’m really not expecting them to; just if they would follow their example of the Falcons (8-8) and get off the mat of disgrace and mediocrity and at least finish the season a respectful 81-81. I’ll settle for that at this point. If the Braves play like they did last night, they will finish 20 games under .500 — and that would be a tragedy.
By michael m beard
July 26, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
The Braves are crazy to trade Betemit. The should get rid if Giles. Betemit is a much better hitter and plays defense much better that Giles. The fact that he is to large to play second is nonsense. Get rid of Giles.
Michael
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
Not Bait-a-meat. Giles. We ought to be able to swing that with the Yanks anyway since Giles makes more money. They like that. Journalist Jimmy, I posted this on the last blog before realizing there was a new one. Did you see the link I posted for you yeaterday?
By Voice Of Reason
July 26, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
I think most of you are giving a NY newspaper way more credit than it’s due, and giving JS way less credit than he’s due. Maybe the deal does happen, but don’t bang on the GM for a bad deal that’s only rumor - and a NY based rumor at that. I understand that there’s confirmation that the Braves and Yankees are talking, but only time will tell (if then) who’s being discussed. We all know how tight-lipped JS is… We also know how wide open and manipulating the Yankers are…
My personal opinion: JS won’t give up WillyB for JUST a Proctor or Linebrink, but maybe in a larger move that brings ‘pen help and a utility replacement. Also, is it just coincidence that both Escobar and Prado have seen extensive time at 3B recently?
By Stanford
July 26, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
Voice, the thing that gets me is DOB’s tone; he sounds like he’s gotten the ‘rationale’ for this trade straight from Scheurholz, not from the NY Post, to me. I have no idea if that’s true, but this is a much different tone than I’ve heard from DOB in the past. Makes me think the rumor is strong.
By Greg
July 26, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
I don’t think race has anything to do with the Betemit deal. By the way by the same thinking that Andruw is Hispanic, isn’t Betemit, who is Dominican, Hispanic?
And Isn’t Andruw Caribbean Dutch? I don’t think Curacao is a majority Spanish speaking nation.
For other reasons, I also believe that the Betemit/Proctor deal could blow up in our faces. I wouldn’t trade Wilson except for a journeyman starter and good reliever. He’s too valuable.
David Justice and Deion Sanders only believe in promoting David Justice and Deion Sanders. I wouldn’t label the Braves racist just because both of these guys said they were.
I think McGriff was more accurate about the ’90s Braves when he complained that they would only spend money on pitching.
Now, of course, they won’t spend money on anything: pitching or hitting.
By mike ramirez
July 26, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
you cant trade wilson…try another option.
By mike ramirez
July 26, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
you cant trade wilson…try another option. marcus would be a better fit, along with some money.
By Ptown Bravo
July 26, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
“If you’re not going to get A-Rod for Betemit, then the trade is worthless because Betemit is the face of the Braves…”
David (not to be confused with the esteemed DOB): if Betemit is the face of the Braves, then you, my friend, are the a*s. Hate to be incendiary on a family-friendly blog, but that statement ranks among the most ridiculous ever on this venue (and with apologies to Night Ranger, that is saying something).
By TDub
July 26, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
You’re kidding me. You’re saying Wilson might be traded because he’s black? I thought I’d heard stupid before, but that is over-the-top stupid.
By Roswell Ed
July 26, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
Watching Ken Ray walk to the mound makes me ill. I really like WB, and JS seems to always make the right decision. BUT:
I’d rather trade away a minor leaguer for temp help and get someone from a floundering club. WB has played as well as anyone. I like the kid and I think his upside at 26 is greater than a pitcher whose just now coming into his own at 29.
By Chuck
July 26, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
WB is more valuable to the Braves than Marcus Giles. I hope Big John sees it the same way and this trade never happens. He has been a top prospect in the organization for several years and plays multiple positions very well. If you want to deal for a reliever, give up Giles fat contract and leave Wilson alone! Marcus Giles best days are behind him, Wilson’s are ahead of him…I vote NO!
By michael m beard
July 26, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
Trade Giles. I guess that Giles is one of Cox favorites. It would be a mistake trade Wilson.
Michael
By Falcon
July 26, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
David,
1)E-Rod makes to much for the Braves to spend…
2)Wickman is 37, he’s no where near the new face of the franchise…
3)They lost by 1 run last night…hardly “wiped out”.
4)They are 5 games out of the wild card and yuo have written them out of the playoff race…that seems about right considering the rest of the crap you wrote in your little monologue.
By Richard in Goose Creek
July 26, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
No way on this deal…Betemit is young, and since the chances are that we won’t reach the post season, no matter how close we are now, this year cries out as the year to get younger and plan for the next several years, not make some half-assed attempt to make the first round and out again. Proctor is not worth it, no middle releiver is worth a player ready to contribute on a daily basis…IMO.
By trevor
July 26, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
rumor spreader. this will never happen. he is our only guy off the bench who can hit. in a plauoff run we will need pinch hitters. DOB stop worrying everyone…. rumor spreader
By FayetteBravesFan
July 26, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
Fantastic report DOB! But I think the Braves should get more in return than a reliever, especially with the injury to Andruw causing more trouble. How ‘bout another OF too? I know the Yankees have no surplus, but SD is looking for a third baseman and can afford to give up Dave Roberts (shazaam: leadoff hitter).
I know, I know, if only it were that easy.
Still, LOVE Wickman. J.S. sure hasn’t lost the touch!!!
By Art
July 26, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
Don’t trade Betemit. If he is too big to play 2nd use him as your left fielder. He has a good arm and a good bat. Try it.
By geauxbraves2000
July 26, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
I know know about the rest of you all, but I get a feeling trading Betemit is not among popular opinion :)
By Tony Almeida
July 26, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
Yep, Wilson’s getting traded because he’s black. Terrence Moore will have the scoop for us shortly.
By MARK
July 26, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
COM ON, REALLY NOW—TRADE GILES AND KEEP BENEMIT. GILES IS NOT WORTH AS MUCH TO THIS TEAM AS BENEMIT!!!
By Chop Chop
July 26, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
Ptown Bravo, while your sentiments are certainly incendiary, I strongly agree with your assessment. I also laughed.
By Jeffrey
July 26, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
No!!!!! The Yankees bullpen has been horrible in itself. Betemit is going great. He has been better than Giles or Chipper for most of the year. This is the time to just say no to any such offers. Unless there is something that I don’t know, I would rather trade Giles or Chipper than Betemit at this point.
By trevor
July 26, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
stop worrying… this is all BS. I f i had dob’s forum i could . matter of fact let me start… word on the street is laroche for kasmir. pass it on
By tigger101023
July 26, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah - and 64 IP for a reliever at this point in the season? Can you say overworked? The dude’s arm is going to fall off at this rate, and it won’t be until after he gets here.
By Glenn
July 26, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
Wilson is a switch hitter with power who can play every infield position . Maybe we should put him in the bullpen occasionally as well. The idea of trading him for a middle reliver makes me sick !
By TDub
July 26, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
Dave Roberts? He’s a great leadoff hitter - when he actually plays. He has never played more than 127 games in a season - and he hasn’t done that since 2002.
By Brent
July 26, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
With all due respect, I disagree that this would be a good trade for the Braves going forward. Proctor is having his best year as a professional by far. He is also on pace to throw well over 100 innings, which is more than he has ever thrown thus far in his career. Thus, I think he’s a gamble.
On the other hand, Betemit has shown over the past 2 years that he can fill in adequately at 3B, SS, or 2B and can swing the bat well. This is key when you have a 3B and 2B who are injury prone. Betemit also makes very little money. He’s exactly the type of guy that every single team in MLB would like to have on their bench.
In addition, from a common sense perspective, the deal makes little sense to me. Seemingly every week, the Braves need a guy to fill in at 3B and 2B. Meanwhile, the Yankees have very little consistency in their bullpen other than Rivera. Why the Braves would want to give up Betemit and the Yankees would want to give up Proctor is beyond me. Sure, making this trade would fill holes for both teams (though in the Yanks’ case, only a temporary hole until Cano returns), but at the same time it would CREATE potentially bigger holes for both teams.
In my opinion, it’s not a good trade for the Braves.
By Jimdog
July 26, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
NO WAY NO WAY NO WAY NO WAY do I do this deal!!!!!!!!! Betemit needs to stay right here. I dont know who you might trade for middle relief, Giles, Langerhans, minor leaguers, and not to get in to this again, but I would trade Chipper if I could find someone to take his contract before I would concider trading Betemit. I dont want to look back on this in a couple of years when Betemit is going off as a Yankee ( or on any other team for that matter ) and have that “I told you so” conversation. Over the past 15 years, I have learned not to question the GM, but I just do not like this trade. Keep Betemit, he is the future, and the future is now.
By fan in va
July 26, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
I agree that I would like to see giles go over WB but the problem is - NOONE is asking for Giles, only Betemit. injuries and cost are the reasons, giles is owed 5mil next year i believe. WB is cheap, young and talented.
fyi - from the nypost article:
Betemit has filled in well for Chipper Jones at third base, but the Braves believe their best way to cop the NL wild card is to improve their bullpen. And like a lot of NL clubs, the Phillies included, they like Proctor’s live arm.
“They have a lot of teams asking for Betemit,” an NL source said of the Braves. “And some of them have more experienced players to offer than the Yankees.”
another part of the article I found interesting:
Betemit had started 25 games at third base, 10 at shortstop and nine at second base for the Braves. Some talent evaluators believe the 6-foot-3, 200-pounder is athletic enough to play the outfield, though he hadn’t played there in the big leagues.
if this is the case, why NOT try him in the outfield? again, don’t like the trade.
By berigan
July 26, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this
I agree with AJK(and the many others) that say trade Giles instead of Betemit. One, Giles will hit more Homers in Yankee stadium. 2. If Betemit goes to the Yankees, if they don’t trade A-Rod, he will never play after Cano comes off the disabled list! He will never get a chance to prove he is a full time big leaguer. Oh, and he is still 25…for 2 more days (according to espn)
By BIFF POCAROBA
July 26, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
no.
everyone wants wilson…trade him for something better. or save him, and see what giles will bring in return. wilson is good…an cheap. if you can get wickman for a dude none of us have heard of, you can get a set up guy for less than Willie B. It is the end of the year, and money is no object, thanks to Chipper and Smoltzy restructuring…right? Those guys took a dive for the team to get better, use the $. Plenty of teams (who are out of it) will give up high paid relievers to cut cash.
By BP
July 26, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
Betemit’s a truly good hitter. And he plays all over the infield. You can put him literally anywhere in the lineup, from leadoff to cleanup, and he picks up the slack for the guy who he is replacing and in Giles case, surpasses it. In short, he’s extremely valuable.
There are lots of Scott Proctor’s out there.
I don’t see any way the Braves do this deal.
By TDub
July 26, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
Uh, yeah - you know who else has a “live arm?” Jorge Sosa… I’d take a random arm from the undead before I’d put that “live arm” into another game.
By Carolina Lady
July 26, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
Dr. Jay: “…not Betemay, uh Betty Meat, er, Buttered Rum - oh the h#ll with it.” LOL!!
By Georgian in Oklahoma
July 26, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
Trading Betemit for some reliever who goes on streaks? Goes on streaks?!? He sounds like everyone else in the ‘pen already. This deal looks like Kyle Farnsworth II.
Maybe we should trade Giles and J.Shithouserolz to the Orioles for Leo Mazzone and Hawkins? That’s a good deal.
By LTD
July 26, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
JS has dug the Braves into the following hole: Chipper Jones and his “hunting buddy”,Mike Hampton, will make a combined$25-27 million next season and neither can be trsded against their wishes -Hampton came with a no-trade clause(which JS saya he would never do and Chipper as a 5/10 player. Now unless he is unable to read a calender/ a medical report,why did JS get the Braves into this with payroll allegedly being reduced?
By Bob
July 26, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
Just maybe, NY doesn’t want Giles?????? You people have to remember that you don’t get to tell the other team who they have to take. Thats why its a trade, not a demand. I’m sure the Braves would rather trade … Me .. for Proctor, but I bet NY not going for that either.
By Tommy
July 26, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
Please don’t do it!
By TDub
July 26, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
That’s it! Bob for Proctor. Sheer genius…
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
P’town Bravo: “When you close your eyes/ do you dreeeeeeeam about me-eeee/ when you close your eyes do you drean a-bouaaat meeeeeeee?” Carolina Lady, reming me never to tell you any secrets…:-)
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this
“Remind,” sorry.
By Diggler
July 26, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this
I am visiting family in Texas right now and watched Proctor come in for the Yankees last night against the Rangers. He was throwing serious heat (97-98mph) on the corners. Had nice breaking stuff too. I think that he would be a good fit, and even though Wilson has played really well for us this season, we need bullpen help. Preferably help that we can keep for a few years!
By Markus
July 26, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
First and foremost this has to be some rumor type mess because this absolutely makes no sense. Now if we were talking about a Marcus Giles for Proctor makes more sense from the financial perspective. Giles is stand to make about $6 to $8 million while Wilson Benemit will only make a fraction of that and plus the Braves will assume Mike Hampton’s contract from the Colorado trade a few years back so it would make more sense for the Braves to dump Giles on the “money can buy me a championship” thought process having Yankees. Don’t give up someone who is highly more productive than Giles. Period
By Choppin Bob
July 26, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
i thought yates looked good, so why stop now? wilson for proctor? the only thing i could imagine is the voice of Capt. Mowzer from Police Academy coming over the PA at the Ted saying “PROCTOR!”
By krath
July 26, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
If Betemit for Linebrink straight up wasn’t a good deal, I don’t like this one much better. Giles is arbitration eligible and as you noted going to make 5 mil probably.
If the Braves don’t resign Giles, I like the idea of having Wilson at second next year with perhaps Prado backing him up if it doesn’t go well. Wilson can also work at 2nd this winter and next spring. As for his size, how about Jeff Kent? An “oversized” guy. Not my favorite individual but like it or not, the guy will probably be in the HOF. I also like the idea of Wilson hanging around because you never know when Chipper will have that career ending injury or just wear out and say he’s done. If that’s a couple of years down the road, you have Wilson ready for his spot. Escobar may work out at 3rd… or not. Marte was can’t miss…and so far… he’s missed. He may yet be a force but haven’t seen it yet.
DOB I don’t doubt your sources or their reasoning, but if I was going to get a backup 2nd basemen or someone to fill in until Robinson C comes back…. it would be Giles and not Wilson. That really doesn’t make sense. Giles is a seasoned player at that position and is hands down the better defensive player. Paying a third of his salary to get him the rest of the way this year would be chump change for the Yanks. Getting Giles out of the leadoff spot and hitting 8th or 9th in that Yankees lineup may bring him around offensively as well. In your earlier column where you spoke with Giles it was as if he was resigned to the fact that he would be traded and really didn’t argue with the logic of trading him. But if the Yanks don’t want Giles for Proctor, can’t make them take him.
The Yanks may want Wilson and the deal may very well be in the works, but I don’t buy that it’s simply they need someone to fill in for Robinson C. I think they see a player who will develop into a very good big leaguer.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter why the Yanks want him I suppose. They have Proctor and we have Betemit and someone wants to deal.
Actually, the more I think about it, I hate this deal! I think they are considering trading a player with tremendous upside for a pitcher who has been pitching pretty good since the all star break. I just hope we don’t get so desperate for bullpen help that we over spend….. and we do need the help out there which makes overspending more likely.
If Wilson goes and Giles stays….AND if Proctor is wearing a Braves uni with Giles…. I’ll be rooting for them both just like I do the rest of the team. Although I would hate to see Wilson go, it’s the Braves and not any, I repeat ANY individual that makes the team.
Hey!!!! we could start the rumor that the Yanks want Betemit to play third because they are trading A-Rod!!! ESPN has been trying to trade A-Rod for a couple of weeks now. Fuel to the fire!!! lol
By ML
July 26, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
I don’t think it’s a good idea to help the Yankees in any way, and Bets is too good to give up for an iffy middle reliever.
By Tony C.
July 26, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
Story probably leaked to drive up Betemit’s price…..I would hope that JS remembers a fella by the name of Jermaine Dye….you know that “promising young man in the Braves farm system”….yeah who did we trade him for? seriously, I forget.
By Choppin Bob
July 26, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
and i forgot, we dont need another Lemmer at 3rd or sort. I love lammer, the best glove we ever had at turning 2, but we need people that can hit
By JimDog
July 26, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
I NORMALLY PUT MY TRUST IN JS, AND MAYBE THIS IS ONLY A RUMOR TO GET THE PADRES OFF THE POT. I TOO THINK GILES SHOULD BE THE ONE TO GO, BUT I THINK JS WOULD PROBABLY HAVE SOMETHING ELSE UP HIS SLEEVE. HE IS SLY AND I DON’T THINK CASHMAN CAN GET THE BETTER OF HIM.
By ChopTalk
July 26, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
Don’t do it!
By Richard D. Goodwin
July 26, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
You’ve got to be kidding? Wilson Betemit is absolutely invaluable to the Braves. I’ve followed his career all the way back to Myrtle Beach. When I saw him in person there I knew he’d be a factor in the Braves’ success. Chipper is 34 and is being prone to injury. Wilson is solid at 3B and naturally at short. What happens when Renturia goes on the shelf. Nothing wrong with being tall at 2B. Ryne Sandberg is in the HOF. If me a break! Proctor is more inconsistent than Yates and is not an upgrade even on Remlinger. The front office is “in panic mode.” Be patient! We’ve got Wickman. Let Ray, McBride, Pronto, etc. take care of the 7th & 8th. This trade is far-fetched & not smart at all. Richard
By ChopTalk
July 26, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
Don’t do it!
By TDub
July 26, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
We traded Dye for Michael Tucker and Keith Lockhart.
(pause)
I feel a little sick.
By Charleston Brave
July 26, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
I’m glad it’s a rumor, that means it’s not true. JS doesn’t work that way. The real question to ask is what’s his real angle?
By Dave
July 26, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
Hi DOB and everybody —- Dave, you are my main source of baseball inspiration but this Proctor proposal is also giving me heartburn. Betemit is not only a solid back up, he’s just as solid as an everyday player at 3 key positions and, because of his talent,is just a step away from being a cornerstone player. Proctor doesn’t seem like the answer to me unless we can unload a second or third level “prospect” or two for him as we did for Wickman. Both Giles and Betemit both have more value than Proctor.
I’d love to think we are the wild card favorite but with Andrew and Chipper’s questionable health it looks more like a long shot to me. I say keep Betemit for every day at second and occasional relief for Chipper and Edgar. Thorman has earned left field in my mind.
It’s not just about the next two “iffy” months. Giles will bring us pitching talent either now or during the off-season. Let’s not do anything rash with Betemit for what could turn out to be a disappointing last two months anyway. If we play below .500 ball (could easily happen) with a patched up lineup for the next week or so, ‘til Chipper and Andrew are healthy, we can’t possibly be favored for the WC. Keep Betemit unless he can bring serious pitching and lead-off help.
By The YB
July 26, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
SOMEONE TALK SOME SENSE INTO JOHN SCHUERHOLZ NOW!!
Wilson shouldn’t be Cast Away - he should be starting at 2B over Marcus “I can’t get on base to save my life” Giles! Betemit is a 5 tools guy and it will absolutely break the hearts of Braves fans everywhere to see Wilson excel in pinstripes. Bobby Cox is a great manager, but he is stuck in his old school ways (refer to the platooning of LaRoche) and hinders the progress of future all-stars. Mark my words: If it happens, this will go down as the worst trade in Braves history.
Holla, holla, holla.
By Charleston Brave
July 26, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
I’m glad it’s a rumor, that means it’s not true. JS doesn’t work that way. The real question to ask is what’s his real angle?
By Dave
July 26, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
Hi DOB and everybody —- Dave, you are my main source of baseball inspiration but this Proctor proposal is also giving me heartburn. Betemit is not only a solid back up, he’s just as solid as an everyday player at 3 key positions and, because of his talent,is just a step away from being a cornerstone player. Proctor doesn’t seem like the answer to me unless we can unload a second or third level “prospect” or two for him as we did for Wickman. Both Giles and Betemit both have more value than Proctor.
I’d love to think we are the wild card favorite but with Andrew and Chipper’s questionable health it looks more like a long shot to me. I say keep Betemit for every day at second and occasional relief for Chipper and Edgar. Thorman has earned left field in my mind.
It’s not just about the next two “iffy” months. Giles will bring us pitching talent either now or during the off-season. Let’s not do anything rash with Betemit for what could turn out to be a disappointing last two months anyway. If we play below .500 ball (could easily happen) with a patched up lineup for the next week or so, ‘til Chipper and Andrew are healthy, we can’t possibly be favored for the WC. Keep Betemit unless he can bring serious pitching and lead-off help.
By Mike
July 26, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this
Are they crazy?
Keep Betemit. Trade Chipper.
By ML
July 26, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
And besides, even if Proctor hangs out in the Yankee bullpen, the curse of A-Rod may have rubbed off on him.
By Charleston Brave
July 26, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
Opps … I double posted!! Please forgive.
By Nate Ganter
July 26, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
I have always supported Braves management decision making process when it comes to trades. Although, I do not understand the rumor that BetemEAt may be going to the Yankees. It seems most logical to trade Giles, no questions asked. Most importantly his intent this year is and was to become an effective lead-off man. Result…Below par avg. with too many strikeouts. Why does this man always swing for the fence? He plays a better role in the two spot. Unfortunalely we wont use him there because Renteria is incredible and very reliable in clutch situations. Betemit has come off the bench with huge hits this year and is getting his chance to live up to his expectations. He plays solid defense at any infield position. His size should not determine rather or not he’ll be a successful 2nd baseman. He will be very successful, but dont listen to me just look at his numbers. The Braves will ultimately regret trading him. Yes, we need serious help in the bullpen. Wickman is a huge help. One of the others like Villarreal can step up and be a productive reliever. Our starters are looking better every game. I think the Braves should look for a power hitting left-fielder if they cant get a good pitcher. No disrespect to any of the Braves, love em for many years. Go Braves!
By Sammy Kershaw
July 26, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
Terrible idea. I hope this is all bull s**t
By TDub
July 26, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
YB,
It breaks my heart to see anybody excel in pinstripes…
By stynes
July 26, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this
A few points of reference…
Given that, I think JS is just driving up the price with whomever he’s dealing with to either increase the value of WB or to make them think WB isn’t available and deal for MG instead. And as much as I like MG and would hate to see him go it makes sense from a financial perspective considering the depth that the Braves have at that position in the minors and the relatively weak season he’s had. I do think WB or MG will move between now and the deadline.
By Lew
July 26, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this
Just heard the commentary on XM and a Yankees analyst wasn’t too thrilled with the prospective deal, either.
By T-Bone
July 26, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this
Wow … meltdown happening in here. Look, let’s take a wait and see here. DOB pointed out that JS would likely be looking for some sort of major-league-ready replacement from elsewhere in the event of a Betemit trade. I think JS knows Prado probably isn’t ready to handle the load (at least offensively) in a playoff chase.
I would hate, hate, to see Betemit traded. But the Braves do need at least one power arm (or two) in that pen, not just a bunch of slider-sinker types.
I think the Braves can survive offensively without Betemit. I don’t think they can win a playoff series with the bullpen as it currently is.
By Vol
July 26, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this
I would rather not get any middle relief help if that’s the price. I don’t want to overpay even if we really need it.
I can’t imagine JS pulling the trigger on this one.
By Chris
July 26, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
Trade Betimit for a reliever who isn’t a future hall of famer or perennial all star? Stupid…
By nathan
July 26, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
DOB How was your snack late last night? LOL!
This blog seems long enough, so I’ll spare you all another epic post.
JS…….DO IT! NOW!!!
Listen, I love Betemit. But we have middle infield prospects galore in the minors. Do what you need to do to solidify the pen, not only for this year but for next as well.
I’m assuming that Bobby and JS only think of Betemit as a utility guy at best anyhow. Other wise they wouldv’t never moved Marte for Renteria. The more than likely didn’t trust to give the job to Betemit. Is that a mistake? I’m not sure, only time will tell on that one.
But if the Braves are to make a run this year the bullpen needs to be fixed ASAP! Hell, trade Giles too, and get a couple more arms. Bring up both Prado and Pena. It’s not like they could do any worse in the leadoff spot.
Sorry folks, that’s as “short” as my posts get! LOL! I’ll try harder next time to keep it shorter :)
By Don
July 26, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this
Let me see if I understand this. The Yankees have a starting pitching staff comprised mostly of guys who have had injury problems and/or are in the neighborhood of 40 years old. On top of that they have a gaping hole in the #5 starter spot that they’ve most recently tried to fill with the fat and sorry Sidney Ponson. Given this rotation they work the hell out of their setup guys trying to get from the 6th or 7th inning to Rivera. But they want to give the Braves a flame throwing “late bloomer” out of the bullpen so they can fill a 2 week gap at 2nd base, after which time they’d have virtually no use for Betimit unless they think he’s going to beat out Cano, Jeter or A-Rod.
This one doesn’t pass the smell test. The Braves are at best a 1 in 5 shot to win the wild card, they don’t need to be making desperate deals for more relief pitching.
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
First the Padres don’t think he’s worth Linebrink, now the yanks don’t think he’s worth Proctor. This has got to be some sort of face-saving BS by both of them when we tell them to shove it. He’s probably worth them both, if we were to throw in Thompson.
By Don
July 26, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
Let’s wait until the end of the weekend and see if the Braves are still in the wild card mix before trading Betimit. Seriously, this team is a 3 game losing streak away from being finished for the season.
By Tom Wright
July 26, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
Management: the Braves need Betemit much more than the Yankees. You have a diamond that can play three positions.Yankees see this don’t you.
If the Braves don’t make the playoffs this year who cares. You must have a foundation to build around. Defense wins games. Don’t do it.
By krath
July 26, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
I know that many here don’t want to hear it, but the wild card isn’t a lock for the Braves. Chipper may not play 20 more games this year, he has become so injury prone. Andruw’s back isn’t going to get much better if he keeps twisting his body into the ground with every swing either. If those two guys miss much time, the odds of us getting there get more and more slim.
It would suck really bad to end the season missing the playoffs and losing Wilson Betemit, and all you have to show for it is a mediocre setup guy.
If we’re going to trade for mediocracy, lets trade mediocre minor league prospects for that, not Betemit.
By JohnBama
July 26, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this
Deal makes no sense for the Braves. The horse has been beat to death but Proctor is no better than what we already have out there. Middle relief is a crap shoot year to year and you can not trade a player with this kind of upside for a “late blooming” middle reliever. You do it and you are in the same position you are in this year next year. Deal with the bullpen you have now, find a lead off guy and lets see what happens.
By Carolina Lady
July 26, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this
To journalist jimmy smith - progress report: this is a very long journey! there are many nice people, but some look at baby seal strangely. baby seal smiles and uses best manners as jimmy smith taught him. think maybe smile is not such a good idea. maybe whiskers need trim. manners always good idea. have reached atlantic ocean. many, many good fresh fish here. not from freezer like jimmy smith’s.
hope to reach home of carolina lady sometime tomorrow. now must get more fish and secure sleeping quarters before dark. it is very lonely traveling. baby seal will write again later.
By ConyersDawg
July 26, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this
Agree Don, and minor leaguers usually have a hard time adjusting. Last night proved we need proven hitters. Chipper keeps getting hurt and bad times. Who needs Proctor when we can’t get the lead to set up wickman.
Tyler Yates and “death” Ray are fine with me.
By Carolina Lady
July 26, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this
Some people could mess up a one-car funeral.
By kph
July 26, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this
A straight up trade would be a bad move. WB is too good a player to give him up for a non proven middle reliever. Thats my opinion and Im sticking with it. Anyway the trade would be with the money bag Yankees lets take them for all we can we know they have it to spend. I mean hell if I were George I would be pissed if they didnt win every game as much money as he shells out.
By Carroll
July 26, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this
Hey I know…Chad Paronto has been throwing very well since the break…maybe we could trade him to the Pads for Barfield….or to the Brewers for Prince Fielder…or to the Indians for Grady Sizemore….or to the Yankees for Robinson Cano…or to the Mets for Lastings Milledge. Sounds crazy, right? Well that’s about the equivalent of trading Betemit for Proctor!
By nathan
July 26, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this
I hear what you are all saying, really I do. But don’t you get it? The Braves have NO interest in giving Betemit an everyday position. Oh sure, they say that the “would’ve had no problem giving him the SS job, had the Renteria deal not come up”. But that’s just BS in case they “have” to use Betemit, so his confidence isn’t shot.
They are not going to give him an everyday position this year, next year or any year!!!! Next spring training, Prado, Escobar, and Pena Jr. will all be in spring traing fighting to make the club. Two of them probably will.
Next year, we will still need bullpen help. You can never have enough arms. Why not trade Betemit now? Even if they miss the playoffs, whoever they get in return for him should help next year, won’t they?
It just amazes me, that the majority of people, especially the older fans, don’t get the economics of baseball today. THIS SPORT AND EVERY OTHER SPORT FOR THAT MATTER HAS COME DOWN TO A WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY AND HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST US, KIND OF SPORT!!!
Mark my words. Giles, Betemit and Orr will not be on the 25 man roster next year. They will be replaced with YOUNGER, MORE TALENTED PLAYERS WITH BIGGER UPSIDE AND LOWER COST!
Could we use Betemit. Yup. Sure could. Is it fair to him if Bobby aint gonna let him play everyday other than when people are hurt. Nope. So hey, if you like Betemit and Giles as much as you say you do. Set them free. Their time to be moved along has come.
You people all live in a fantasy world, that JS doesn’t have to do anything, because all of these players have done “it” in the past. SO WHAT!!! We are almost 2/3 of the way through the season. These aren’t “slumps” anymore, people. It’s the “norm”. That’s what we’re gonna get from these players. WAKE UP. Let JS do what he needs to do. NOBODY should be safe from trades (except for obviously the 10/5 guys), if JS thinks he can strengthen this team not only for the stretch run, but for next year. I trust his judgement. Let him do his job. As long as he doesn’t re-aquire Dan Kolb, I’m OK with what he does. Especially if he trades from a position of strength and or depth. Like we have at the middle infield positions throughout the minor leagues.
That didn’t take long, did it?
Anybody else want some more of that? I’ve got plenty more where that came from.
GO BRAVES!
By SAM
July 26, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this
I HATE THIS TRADE!!! PROCTOR IS A JOURNEYMAN…C’mon! Betemit is a huge asset…he has a low salary, can play multiple positions.
This one stinks. Betemit should bring back a middle reliever and at least a good prospect…maybe an A or AA pitcher.
Scott Proctor for Betemit…NO WAY!!!
By carlos sienna
July 26, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this
this one stinks, DO NOT TRADE …bet on mit trade giles and roll
By TennesseePaul
July 26, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this
I don’t recall who we got for Jermaine Dye. I do remember Jermaine spending the following 5 years on the DL and then finally showed up to play for the White Sox last year. Personally, I don’t really miss the guy. In his absence we’ve had many capable and reliable players.
As for Betemit, I’m not sure I believe. I’ll believe it when I see it. And by the way, who else do you get from the Yankees? They got nothing we need. Except maybe Mariano.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this
Relax about Proctor guys. If he can handle the NY spotlight and even be moderately effective, he could be an All-Star outside of the city.
By Chris
July 26, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this
We’d be giving up WAY too much in this deal. I don’t like it at all. The guy’s pitched well the past few weeks while Wilson has played well the last couple of years. Stupid, stupid, stupid…don’t make the deal.
By elbravox
July 26, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this
NO.
By BravesFaninRockies
July 26, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this
The deal makes sense if indeed no one’s offering value for Giles. Marcus is still a valuable player (and a terrific 2B, much more reliable than Wilson), he just seems perplexed by the leadoff role.
Would hate to lose Wilson (who has cooled off since Chipper got hurt), but you have to give up something to get something. This ain’t roto-ball, folks.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
IF the deal happens, I don’t think it would be a straight up deal. Other players would likely be involved.
By shawn
July 26, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
DOB where are you? You said this was a good deal now face the onslaught. NO ONE in ATL wants this deal. How confident are you of this deal? Maybe Chipper, Hudson and Betemit for A-Rod, Mussina, and Proctor……but that is about it.
By Hotrod
July 26, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this
After seeing that one handed cannon put out at first a couple days ago,not to mention his batting power, I say we would get the short end of this trade if it happens.
By BigBP
July 26, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this
Betemit is playing well. Sell high. He isn’t as good as his recent hot streak would suggest.
As for Proctor’s struggles, he isn’t going to be pitching to the AL East (home of the best offenses in baseball) any longer. His ERA will drop a half of a run in the NL.
Great deal. Git er done.
By Stanford
July 26, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this
Nathan, I agree with you a lot more today than yesterday… but the night is young!
I don’t agree that Giles will not be here next year. He makes $3.8 mil this year, maybe $5 next and is what, 28 years old? I don’t think we’ll hand 2b over to a rook next year (Escobar is a SS, or maybe eventually a 3B, isn’t he?). I think Giles will get another contract with the Braves, maybe be traded a couple of years into it when we’re ready to promote a young guy to starting.
Folks, Betemit is hitting .284 and has an obp LOWER than the struggling Marcus Giles. He strikes out a lot more than any other Brave. I’m not saying he stinks, and I hope he becomes a great player, whether here or somewhere else, but he is NOT a superstar.
Above all, as it stands right now, we’re going into next year with the same poor bullpen we’ve got now. We need to add at least one, and maybe more, middle reliever because Ray, Villareal, McBride, Paronto and Yates is not a championship caliber bullpen.
Happy trails and safe passage to all traveling, whoever they may be!
By Swangirl
July 26, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this
I’d hate to see the Braves trade Wilson. He’s got speed, drive and a team spirit.
Honestly, will someone stand up and tell me how to pronounce this guy’s last name? I’ve heard every variation there is from different announcers. And now the coma-like Torborg won’t even say it. He just calls him Wilson.
By TDub
July 26, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this
Nathan,
So if the Angels and Reds can’t find an everyday spot for Figgins and Freel, should they trade them too? Come on. He’s been getting plenty of playing time this year. It’s like having a good backup RB in football for a change of pace and/or to give other guys a rest when they’re hurt or struggling. Like Dunn and Duckett, for example. Ok, maybe not like Dunn and Duckett. That’d be like replacing Giles with a tub of butter.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this
I agree, BigBP. The bullpen killed us last year and has hurt us most of this season. Relief help is what we’ve needed all along.
By nathan
July 26, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
Carroll….not quite!
Prince Fielder is gonna be a bonified superstar. Plus he’s 22!
I love Betemit, and I think he should get to play everyday. But if he hasn’t been given that chance YET, he isn’t gonna ever get it from Bobby. Betemit by the way is 25 and took WAAAAAAAY longer to make it to the show than they every intended. Not to diminish his skills. But if he wouldn’t have been out of options last spring, he wouldn’t have even made the club, until Chipper was hurt. And my guess is they would’ve called somebody else up.
Don’t take my strong stance on this subject, as me not supporting or liking Betemit. That’s not the case. But there must be somthing about him that Bobby and JS don’t like. So I’m going with that. Other wise you all would have to start complaing about Bobby, like I do! LOL
That’s the real question for you Carroll. If you feel that Betemit is in the same class as all those players you named. Do you think he should have the 2B job over Marcus? Even if Marcus was healthy? If your answer to that question is Yes, I’ll back off of you a little (just a little LOL!), but if your answer is No. Then you can’t possible lump Betemit in with other young rising players that get to play everyday. You have to understand, that there isn’t much difference between a GREAT utility player and an AVERAGE everyday player.
I myself, thing Betemit should be playing everyday over Giles. But my opinion on that subject is based on who’s better “right now” and gives us the best chance to win the wild card. If we aren’t in the wild card and Betemit and Giles aren’t in Bobby and JS’s longterm plans, I say trade them both and call up the guys that they expect to hold those positions down next year. And give them playing time for experience. Especially if the games are meaningless.
Just my thoughts, though. I know most of you think I’m crazy, but to me it’s just the “simple math” that JS has to deal with. Also speculation, based on Bobby and JS’s “choices” over the last 6 or 7 months.
By maya lucia
July 26, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this
this one scares me….
because wilson is finally coming into his own….
and proctor is a yankee….
yee haw!
the south will rise again….
By MGL
July 26, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this
I don’t like the looks of this trade as Proctor looks suspect and I think Wilson is worth more. However, I am not at all opposed to trading Wilson. Some of you apparantly have fallen head over heels in love with this guy but don’t look at the facts.
Wilson is a great utility player and has had some good clutch hits off the bench. His fielding is suspect. He is pretty good at third, but barely serviceable at 2nd and short. He has averaged an error every 18 innings at short this year. He also looks uncomfortable at 2nd and cannot make plays that Marcus does on a routine basis.
The YB wrote “Wilson shouldn’t be Cast Away - he should be starting at 2B over Marcus “I can’t get on base to save my life” Giles! Betemit is a 5 tools guy” Try checking the stats, Giles currently has a higher OBP than Wilson.
Let’s keep Wilson, but for the right reasons, or trade him for a sure thing reliever.
By Nate Raymond In Maine
July 26, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this
If we deal betemit for proctors. Well that is a bad deal. You dont know if chipper is going to stay healthy or if giles is going to keep up the hitting. Bad deal and If they trade it we will be scrwed. Dont do it bad deal.
By Spike
July 26, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this
Bad move. If anybody has paid attention to Betemits defense you can tell he’s a keeper. For Linebrink yes, for Proctor no.
By Tim
July 26, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this
Wilson Betemit was our top prospect a few years ago and has proven that he can perform at the major league level. I hate to see him traded, because of his potential. This kid is only 26 and has been spectaculiar at 3rd, short, and 2nd. If traded he is, let’s just hope it’s for someone who can make an immediate impact on games won. We need W’s at this point, nothing less.
By nathan
July 26, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this
Stanford Ah Yes, the night is still young, and I’m kinda moody today! LOL
I agree with you for the most part. But I really feel like they will “hand” the job over to one of the young guys next year. I could be completely wrong, believe it or not that’s happened before. :)
TDub The answer to that question, is Yes. If you feel that you have other prospects ready to do the same things. Like I said last night. Everbody freaked out when JS traded fan favorite and spark plug, Charles Thomas. But he obviously new that Francoeur, Langerhans and Kelly Johnson were on their way up.
So, IMO, the answer to that question is variable, based on the “circumstances” and other players available in the system. If that makes any sense.
Simple math, people. Trade your “surplus” of talent at positions of strength for positions you need. If the Braves had Francoeur, Langerhans and Jones in the outfield (assuming Langerhans was a guy that they had faith in being around for a while). Should they trade Kelly Johnson for help elsewhere? I think so.
But that’s just me.
By David
July 26, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this
Proctor is a journeyman hack,DOB. Braves can do much better than him.
By Chop Chop
July 26, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this
If the Braves want to “sell high” with Betemit, they’ll have to find a team sees him as an everyday third baseman, which explains so many people pining away for the Padres’ Scott Linebrink. The Pads need a third baseman and Betemit is younger than most of the other available options. Otherwise, most teams think of him as a utility guy with some pop, and that isn’t going to bring in much more than a guy like Scott Proctor.
By Greg
July 26, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this
I am amazed at the amount of people that feel Giles being traded is a better idea than Betemit. Betemit has been injury-prone for years, especially his foot; furthermore, Betemit is a late-bloomer at best. Granted, he has been killing the ball recently, but what Brave hasn’t? Betemit is at the peak of his value now…the best time to trade him. Giles is a proven winner who plays harder than any player I know. Yes, he has had his share of injuries, but not nearly to the extent of Betemit over the years. Betemit needs to be trade bait before his value decreases.
By MGL
July 26, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this
Spike, I have paid a lot of attention to Wilson’s defense and I would not give him the starting job anywhere but third.
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this
For all those wondering why the Yankees wouldn’t want Giles instead of Betemit, it’s two-fold: Giles will make more than $5 mill next season and Betemit will probably make under $500,000. Betemit is having a better year and they think can give them more power in short-term, which is what they’re looking for until Cano gets back.
Actually it’s three-fold: Betemit has versatility to play three infield positions, and possibly the outfield. Giles is a second baseman, period.
Carroll, I asked about Conine and Braves don’t see him as viable third baseman if they need one for several days, etc. He has barely sniffed the position in recent years, only a couple of games in emergencies.
It’s funny, everybody I talked to in New York today (three different reporters) said people up there can’t believe Yankees would do this, and they don’t understand why they would, and everybody down here _ or a lot of people, at least _ says they don’t understand why Braves would do this and they cringe at the thought.
Amazing how we _ everybody _ sometimes put more value on what we see every day than what we don’t, at least when it comes to less-than-superstar players/pitchers whose numbers don’t scream excellence.
By nathan
July 26, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this
Well said Chop Chop.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this
This sucks, and I hope it’s not true. When I posted the link on the other Blog this morning I assumed it was just rumor but now their seems to be some truth to it. I really don’t agree with trading away offrense for pitching. The Braves need all the playmakers they can get in the lineup. Proctor is pitching well now but Betemit will be a long term great player.
Braves still need offense! We need guys who can manufacture runs during close games. Without a lead Procttor or Wickman won’t do us any good.
By krath
July 26, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this
Nathan, you generally explain your logic when you post. I just don’t understand your logic on this deal though.
You seem like you’re saying we need relievers and its ok to overpay for them. We don’t need WB so ship him to the Yanks for Proctor. Even if you feel the Braves never intend to use WB everyday, it is NOT ok to overpay for Proctor and that’s what we would be doing. If JS is shopping for WB’s replacement, he’s going to have to shop a long time because there isn’t anyone out there that will be as productive and valuable as WB is to the Braves. He definitely isn’t going to be shopping for an everday 3rd baseman. Maybe it’s Conine indeed but Conine to me would be a downgrade from Wilson. Chipper just isn’t going to stay healthy. He’s 34 and not getting younger. If Chipper is hurt, you might…. I said might stay in the race with WB at 3rd. Name another utility guy who could fill in at 3rd for Chipper and give you equal defense and production?
I don’t know about you Nathan, but if I had an extra house, I wouldn’t give it away just because it was extra. I would want fair market value for it. Proctor alone is not fair market value.
By GM
July 26, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this
Time to take a deep breath JS and just say no….Bettemitworth far more than a a reliever with one good month behind him. This year isn’t over but lets not give away a bright future for maybe two competitive months this season.
By Lew
July 26, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this
Nathan-I agree with you on Betemit. I don’t think he will get a chance to play every day in Atlanta. His defense at second was not very good. He plays great at third, but Chipper will be here for thre more years and Renteria at short for two. I would like to keep him in his current role as super sub. We KNOW he can do that well and pinch hit, too. I don’t like the deal for Proctor. Just making it at his age is not encouraging. I also think that when you look at what Wickman cost, you should not have to pay that much for Proctor.
By raymond
July 26, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this
If it were up to me, Betemit would be starting for us somewhere. I can’t see trading him when we have a CHINADOLL starting at third whoo need backup on a regular basis.
By krath
July 26, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this
“Name another utility guy who could fill in at 3rd for Chipper and give you equal defense and production?”
I meant for WB, not Chipper.
By ColumbusBuckeye
July 26, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this
I’m just amazed by the amount of bonafide scouts that we have on this board…..
How many of you have even seen this guy play? I think it’s a nice trade, it helps us this year……..and into next. If Wilson was going to crack the lineup for good, they wouldn’t have brought in Edgar Renteria…..obviously the Atlanta brass see’s something there. Why not sell high, and bring in someone who will provide instant help, and provide depth next season? How many one run games have we lost again? How many blown saves?
We need pitching more than hitting at the moment.
By Sharon
July 26, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this
JS don’t be a fool and trade WB. There’s plenty to go after without giving him up. Don’t sacrifice the future.
By Haywood Jablome
July 26, 2006 06:12 PM | Link to this
Nathan, YOU DA MAN!Only one slight disagreement: Marcus Giles is one the top 5 2nd basemen in baseball. This year is a nightmare for him but also a pure aberration. Remember, people in Boston thought Edgar was washed up after last season and look how he’s turned it around! I’d rather keep wilson and Marcus for now and see how Stockman pans out first. I agree Marcus probably won’t be here next year but let’s wait for the off season when 10 or 12 delusional teams think they’re just one Marcus Giles away from putting it all together!
By Andy
July 26, 2006 06:12 PM | Link to this
I think the point is that WB is at best a third baseman—the braves have a third baseman under contract for a few more years. The braves have players who can play third/ss/and second coming up—-all like dave said—you make the trade because protror is afforadable for two years. But I know nothing—-I’ll look foward to what JS does and I think Vinny and Maddox will be with us in the last two months. Thats me though and the voices in my head.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this
The Mariners just traded with the Indians
Ben Broussard to the Mariners for Shin Soo Choo and Minor leaguers.
Nice to know somebody is trading for offense.
http://www.realgmbaseball.com/srcwiretaparchives/3132/20060726/marinersacquirebroussardfromcleveland/
By nathan
July 26, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this
TDub
I meant to add this to my response to you, but I forgot.
Since you are making football analogies. And mentioned good running backs, I compare it more to the Denver Bronco’s situation. Shanahan has such an ego, he thinks and actually knows that it’s his system that allows running backs to succeed, not any individual running back. Does this mean those players don’t/didn’t have talent. Absolutely not, but Shanahan has kind of proven his point year after year, by not ever drafting RB’s high in the draft and not going after free agents.
Bobby, to me, is very similar. They trust the farm clubs to teach the game correctly. And when players are called up, they expect them to play at a high lever, other wise they wouldn’t call them up. Everybody around baseball always says that that’s why Bobby is the best manager. He can take any cast of characters and put them in the position to succeed. I’ll leave the “best manager in baseball” argument for another day.
DOB, you are correct in your analization about how people “see” things that they say daily. I believe it goes both ways. People alway say that when things are going bad “the grass is alway greener on the other side”. Well the same can be said when things are going well (betemit’s play this year). Maybe that’s just a case of “us” as fans seeing flashes of greatness, but forgetting how miserable of a time he had at AAA.
As in most things in life, things are neither as good or as bad as they seem at the times of them happening. Say like going 3-20 in June. This team is not that bad. But with the way the offense saved the pitching in the last two weeks, I’m not sure they are as good as they’ve played recently. Probably safe to assume somewhere in the middle. Which projects out to about a .500 season, people. Of course that could change with some “good” trades.
By flange1
July 26, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this
Hi DOB,
Great post as always. Question for you, what contracts do Proctor and Linebrink currently have? Are they one year deals or longer? What are the salieries? I heard someone on the tube say last night that the Braves were looking to Linebrink and that he would be a future closer. I don’t know the market on Giles right now, but I don’t think he will be around next year because of his salary. I wonder if BOTH MG and WB are on their way out?????
By brownthrasher
July 26, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this
Once again, we trade a man of color. We just don’t like dark skinned brothers onthe Braves team. Regardless, bad move. Bad move. We know nothing about this reliever.
By herm
July 26, 2006 06:20 PM | Link to this
I think it is crazy, the Braves are thinking of trading Betemit. He is a very valuable asset for the team. He is the utility man, holding all the infield positions. I don’t think adding more bullpen help will help the Braves. I think it may be time for the Braves to consider new leadership. We or are we satisfied with winning the division or winning a championship. Management always want to cut the payroll, but what about the fans, who stick in there every year, paying lots of money to support the team and all we get is the division. TIME TO ELEVATE!!!
By Austin
July 26, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this
FOLKS THA GUY THROWS 99 MPH AND WE HAVE A BUNDLE OF MIFFLE IF ON THE FARM BETEMIT STINKS HE COST US LAST NIGHTS GAME
By Lew
July 26, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this
Columbus Buckeye-Yes, I have seen him pitch. Besides that, if you look at his stats, in 64 innings, he has given up 28 earned runs and has an ERA of 3.92. He has a career ERA of 4.95. His WHIP is in excess of 1.25. He puts people on base and apparently lets them score. He is just really getting started in the majors and is 30 years old. There’s nothing in his background to indicate that he would be a worthwhile addition to our already poor bullpen. Considering that JS gave up a class A catcher for Wickman, I see the price tag for Proctor being way high. Betemit may never get a chance to start full time in Hotlanta, but Chipper is not an everyday player anymore (at least for periods of time) and Betemit is a supersub. Just so you realize, we do need bench players, too. No championship team ever made it without a strong bench. Betemit makes our bench strong. Not every player has to start all the time. It’s the way the game is played.
By alex
July 26, 2006 06:23 PM | Link to this
VERY BAD DEAL!!!!!the braves should not trade Betemit unless they can get a starter like Dontrelle Willis or a better reliever than Proctor.plus,they can use him next season and release Giles.who cares that he maybe oversized for secondbase but at least he can play at second and he’s a better lead-off hitter than Giles will ever be!
By krath
July 26, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, the only way this trade makes sense for the Yanks is if the trade would spin off another trade of some type.
As many have noted, Proctor IS important to the Yankee pen right now. How do they replace him? If Proctor comes to the Braves for Betemit, then A-Rod indeed could be gone. A-rod could bring the Yanks a closer quality guy or even a quality starter….maybe both. A-rod leaving the Yanks doesn’t seem out of the question anymore. But who could their trade partners be on that?
Straight up Proctor for Betemit doesn’t make sense for the Yanks…. unless they can replace Proctor.
By bigguy
July 26, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this
I bet Chipper would luv to trade WB before he has his job at 3rd taken away.
By nathan
July 26, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this
Krath I agree with you to an extent. Doesn’t JS alway seem to “fleece” other GM’s in trades? Every now and then we might actually have to give somthing up to get a “need” in return. They can’t all be like Melvin Nieves for Fred McGriff or BJ and Odalis for Sheffield. I for the most part think that you do overpay for somthing if you are desperate for somthing. Kinda like a convienient store! And face it, we’re desperate for relief pitching. If we’re gonna try to win the wild card. If not, let it ride for the rest of the year and rethink it in the off season. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Isn’t that what they say?
Columbus Buckeye
Finally, somebody who “get’s it”
By TennesseePaul
July 26, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
Yes. I think this is all about skin color. Excellent insite Brownthrasher. I’ve noticed that they keep the green eyed guys off the team too. What’s with that? Green Eyed guys can play just as well if not better.
Sheesh… That’s possibly the worst assesment I’ve read on this blog. It makes no sense. We traded FOR Renteria. We traded FOR McGriff. The Braves trade for guys with skills, most of the time (frickin Kolb).
By yankee boy
July 26, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
braves still suck dumb trade for yanks good for braves proctor must stay because we are missing dotel and sturtze very dumb trade when everyone for yanks get healthy betemit wont play at all
By Ole Man Bourbon
July 26, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this
Is there any chance of trading WB and A-Rod’s salary to NY for Proctor and A-Rod?
By Tami
July 26, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this
I’m with Adam…I’d be more amenable to a Betemet trade with the Yankees if they sent a 2nd potentially good player with Proctor. I don’t think that the Yankees have all that much to give, though. They’re still trying to fill back up their farm system from all of those years of dealing away all-star players for big marquee names, half of which are no longer playing for the Yankees. I wouldn’t want JS to give away a potential All-Star in Betemit for a PROMISE of someone that MIGHT be good down the stretch. Remember: Proctor’s switching leagues. That might play to the NL opponents’ advantage more than the Braves’ advantage.
By Rob S.
July 26, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this
We should at least get Nick Green in this deal too. Maybe he can go back to being a solid sub like he was for us a couple of years ago.
I just don’t think Proctor is good return for Betemit. Proctor is definitely not Linebrink. He hasn’t done anything impressive for any amount of time. There’s no way he’s worth it. Heck, the bullpen isn’t even pitching that poorly right now. And we definitely could use a lefty more than another righty for sure.
By flange1
July 26, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this
How about WB for Proctor and Nick Green?
By krath
July 26, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this
Nathan, WB isn’t a loaf of bread or candy bar. It’s about ROI. Return on investment for WB is great right now. He’s cheap and he’s a good player. He’s valuable if he stays and may be worth even more in a year. Proctor is cheap and he’s a great pitcher…… since the allstar break.
Our pen stinks. Pitching wins games. We need pitching, but we have lots of average pitchers now. We don’t need another average pitcher (oh I forgot, great pitcher since the break) at the price of WB.
By Chris
July 26, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this
WHY TRADE MORE YOUNG TALENT FOR A RENTAL THAT GETS US NOTHING. WE ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THE NL EAST AND PROBABLY WON’T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS It would be nice to have Adam Wainwright right now, wouldn’t it? I’m done with their mid-season moves.
By Chris
July 26, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this
WHY TRADE MORE YOUNG TALENT FOR A RENTAL THAT GETS US NOTHING. WE ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THE NL EAST AND PROBABLY WON’T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS It would be nice to have Adam Wainwright right now, wouldn’t it? But, he was given away for a rental hitter in Drew. I’m done with their rental type moves.
By Tony C.
July 26, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this
My comment on Dye was b/c he was an All-Star in KC, and had he not shattered his leg (fouling off pitch into fibia-ouchie!), the A’s would’ve won the AL that year. He’s good. Just like Betemit is good. I wonder who JS is driving up the price to?????
By flange1
July 26, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this
How about WB for Proctor and Nick Green?
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this
I’m sorry, but…
with Chipper’s strained oblique and nagging injury history of late…
with Marcus Giles injury history (usually because he just goes all-out all the time on the field) and his thumb apparently still nagging him at the plate, or him just flat-out sucking at the plate all this season…
with the Braves’ offensive output showing so much life with Wilson at leadoff….
…I just don’t like this deal for a middle reliever!
If Bobby Cox and Roger McDowell can figure out how to use what they have, I think we’re fine with what we have.
Tyler Yates (save for one bad pitch to Ryan Howard) has been exceptional this season. Macay McBride gets out lefties, and looked really sharp in his last outing against all hitters from all sides. Ken Ray’s rocky outings of late notwithstanding, he’s fairly reliable; throw in a healthy John Thomson, with Paronto in tow, and the parts are already there for a decent-to-good bullpen. We just have to use the right guys in the right moments. I’m not blaming Cox/McDowell for mis-using guys in wrong situations; it just takes time to figure out who’s better when, and frankly, they’ve had to learn about all of ‘em this season.
Suffice to say, I’d prefer we keep Betemit; he’s proven this season and last how valuable he is to this franchise.
By Pops
July 26, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this
Unless the Yankees are working on something wild like A-Rod for Bobby Abreu and Pat Burrell (about even $$$ next year), this WB for Proctor deal will never happen. The Yankees bullpen is a Rivera away from being as bad as the Braves.
By knowitall
July 26, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this
Haven’t you people learned by now??? Never doubt JS!
By 2 homo boys
July 26, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this
The homos say trade Wilson Betemit to the Yankees for Scott Proctor and Matt Smith or TJ Beam.this deal would work.
By doug
July 26, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this
I agree, I don’t get why Scherholz is ok with sending a guy who can produce like Betemit away for a guy who may play for a us for 1 and a half seasons. I say start Wilson and bench Giles for the remainder of the season.
By krath
July 26, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this
Hey Pops, I agree.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this
We need to get one ting straight. The Braves need another reliever. I am not comfortable at all having Yates or Paronto or even Ray be the set up guy. Yes, Proctor has has some problems but if he can pitch in New York and pitch as well as he has, then he can pitch here. I would like to know how many of those runs were allowed in mop up duty when pitchers tend to be a lot more aggressive. The guy can hit 100mph. Who in that bullpen can do that? Thats right nobody.
The question is is Betemit worth getting him. The answer: only if we can get a quality 3B to backup Chipper whose name is not Vinny Castilla. If JS can acquire a Joe Randa or Jeff Connine or yes Todd Walker then I’m all for it. If he can’t, Betemit should stay put and JS needs to find a reliever by different means. But, make no mistake we need another reliever.
It would be nice to have another bat, but again it can’t be somebody who won’t be here next year or who will require top prospects being sent. I say Salty, while being a top prospect is expendable. Where is he going to play? LaRoche is staking 1B right now and Jurries is lurking if he falters. Thorman seems to be making a play to get left field for himself. I think McCann has got that catcher’s position pretty nailed down and Pena is behind him. So, why not trade him if he will bring something good in return.
This hangup of trading prospects is stupid. There are other trades and the draft to get prospects. I would be all for getting a Carlos Lee or Soriano if it helps us down the stretch and in the end doesn’t really cost us anything. And Salty falls under that scope. Escobar and Prado are much more valuable at this point than Salty.
By Carroll
July 26, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this
Nathan: HELL YES I want WB starting over Gilly. In fact, I was the lone voice at the beginning of the season saying that Gilly was the ONLY tradeable piece that we had (DOB, do you remember me saying that?)….everyone else started hooten and hollerin about “he’s our spark plug”…”no way”…well, if they’d have listened to me and traded Gilly early in the season or before the season, we could’ve gotten a s**t load for him.
By Kramer
July 26, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this
This smells of JS trying to maneuver himself into a better position. Don’s post @ 5:14 was right on. Why would the Yanks do this, give up bullpen help (which they also need) to get a middle infielder which they will only need for a few more weeks?
As much as I love Willy B, I don’t mind trading him, as long as we get enough for him, and I think we ought to get more than a “late blooming” middle releiver. At the same time, I also would not mind seeing Giles go, though I love his style of play and would hate to see him go as well. Again, we must get a return for either of these guys, which means that we must meet our obvious needs: a leadoff hitter and a set-up guy.
I think that we have plenty of trade bait (WB, MG, Langy, KJohnson, Sosa, Thomson) to meet those obvious needs. We just have to trust JS (who is not as saavy as we might think: the Kolb trade, Johnny Estrada for Oscar the Grouch and some French guy). Ought to be exciting.
By Pops
July 26, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this
Look to the Cubs, my friends. They are going nowhere and have two market priced middle relievers in Eyre and Howry. Minor league prospects (or Thorman, who BTW is going to be quite good) should suffice. I prefer Eyre of the two.
By mike
July 26, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this
No Betemit in the starting lineup tonight. Maybe a sign.
By Anthony
July 26, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this
As a Mets fan, I say trade Betemit. He is going to be a great ball player and do not want to face him in the future. The Braves would be making a big mistake by trading Betemit for a “decent” middle reliever.
By drb
July 26, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this
I got two words for you “jermaine dye”
As far as I am concerned, we need to keep Wilson on board. When Chipper gets back at third we need to stick Wilson at 2nd and let him leadoff. Hey I love Giles gutty play, but lets face it Wilson is better and brings more to the plate. I don’t think one more bull pen guy is going to do jack for us.
Wilson is a stud and we are getting him for nothing as far as payroll is concerned.
We got Wickman so the rest of the bull pen can chill knowing they are not going to be stuck out there in the nineth.
Let’s roll with what we got and see how this thing plays out in the end.
Less is more!
By ncscoots
July 26, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this
wow…I spent April and May using logic to try to break through the force-field of blind adulation that surrounds WB from the bloggers, and finally gave it up as a bad try. Yet today I see at least a half-dozen folks on the blog who realize that the guy is simply..not…a…superstar…impact…player. He has the range of a refrigerator, and worse hands. Yes, I’ve seen him make some good plays, and I’ve seen him butcher more. He’s an OK bat, but he’ll never be Jeff Kent, or even Chase Utley, for that matter. And does anyone REALLY think he could take Robinson Cano’s job next year? Please. And yet, having said all that, and with no blinders on to the guy’s skill level, I don’t think I would trade him for Proctor, either, or Linebrink, for that matter, at least straight up. But my thought is this: JS is famous (or infamous) for putting the wraps on trade discussions, and I’m sure Yankees management knows that. Would they leak info about a possible trade, knowing it might tick off JS enough to just stop returning their calls? Or did JS let them know it was OK to spill a few beans? Hmmm….
By Pops
July 26, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this
The Braves don’t have infielders to spare if they plan on contending anytime soon. The Yankees don’t have relief pitchers to spare as they spend to contend every year. Case closed. Y’all are the 20 millionth to 20,000,025 victims of the New York press.
There are better deals out there for both teams. Plan on seeing the supersub around for a few more years.
By Hunk Erdown
July 26, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this
This has been a test of the emergency short stop system. Had this been an actual emergency, you would not have been told about it until the deal had beeen long done. This was only a test.
By Calvin
July 26, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this
AJ and CJ are in the lineup tonight by the way.
By Ron
July 26, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this
Chipper may retire after his contract expires at the end of next season, and Be-te-meee is ONLY 26!! And he is a stud! He’s our next third baseman. Besides, Chipper and Giles are ALWAYS hurt. Don’t laugh, but has anyone looked at Yates and Paronto’s ERA’s lately? They are 3.22 and 2.93, respectively. Proctor’s is 3.94. He is a “proven” reliever? Since when? He’s 29, and this is only his second year in the majors. Proctor’s a gamble. John, don’t do it!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this
I just don’t understand why the Yanks would make the trade. They need all the pitching they can get. The only thing I can think is that Betemit is a better fit for the “utility” role than Cairo is or they have plans of shipping A-Rod after the season or its another of example of them getting all offense and ignoring the real need, pitching. I happen to think this trade would be worse for them than the Braves. At least in the short term. It makes no sense.
I have a feeling that Jeff Connine or Todd Walker are headed to Atlanta and before the Mets series begins.
One thing I do fear though is the Orioles trying to package LaTroy Hawkins with Connine for Betemit. That would be a bad deal.
I really do think JS should pry Connine away from the O’s. The guy is 40 years old and why would they exercise his option when they are trying to compete in the Al East.
He would fit in nicely with the Braves and is low risk even if we had to give up Langerhans. Lets face it. Langerhans is not the future left fielder for the Braves so he is expendable.
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this
Chipper and Andruw both back in lineup, in case you haven’t heard by now.
Now, to the pressing matter. Betemit/Proctor:
For all those wondering why the Yankees wouldn’t want Giles instead of Betemit, it’s two-fold: Giles will make more than $5 mill next season and Betemit will probably make under $500,000. Betemit is having a better year and they think can give them more power in short-term, which is what they’re looking for until Cano gets back.
Actually it’s three-fold: Betemit has versatility to play three infield positions, and possibly the outfield. Giles is a second baseman, period.
Carroll, I asked about Conine and Braves don’t see him as viable third baseman if they need one for several days, etc. He has barely sniffed the position in recent years, only a couple of games in emergencies.
It’s funny, everybody I talked to in New York today (three different reporters) said people up there can’t believe Yankees would do this, and they don’t understand why they would, and everybody down here _ or a lot of people, at least _ says they don’t understand why Braves would do this and they cringe at the thought.
Amazing how we _ everybody _ sometimes put more value on what we see every day than what we don’t, at least when it comes to less-than-superstar players/pitchers whose numbers don’t scream excellence.
By Joe Coffey
July 26, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this
The Braves are up to their old ways of trading the solid for the jelly. Not who we could get, but who we give up. Wilson plays 3rd base far better than Chippy and has by far so much less DL time per year. Chipper could go and his performance as a player on the field wouldn’t be noticed. Yes, he can hit the ball, but so he is aging and has so much DL time his batting couldn’t be missed too much either.
By Josh
July 26, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this
BIG MISTAKE. Proctor? Please…
and it’s not “if” Chipper gets hurt, but WHEN. And that’d be right now in case ya missed it…
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this
I have a solution. Trade Chipper for A-Rod. The money is the same. Both are greatly underappreciated by their fans and maybe they both will get their due respect in new homes. Maybe.
What do y’all say?
By David
July 26, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this
DOB you already posted this. DOB is losing it!!
By Nikki
July 26, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this
Trade Betemit?! No!
By krath
July 26, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this
It’s a funny thing that everyone the Braves speak with want Betemit. I guess the only folks who don’t see him as having any special value are Braves management and some bloggers here. I guess I’m one of those who is “surround by a force field of blind adulation” for WB.
I dont feel so bad though. Many major league GM’s seem to agree that WB is worth giving up something decent for. I’ll take their opinion over some of our so called “experts” which none of us really are…although some profess to be :)
By dadgum
July 26, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this
First Sammy Sosa is a joke of a major league player. An imposter, Sammy Sosa couldn’t make a three deep in Atlanta’s outfield. He is a bad hitter and perhaps just one of the very worst outfielders defensively that we have seen in some years. Talk about overhyped. Not to mention he is a bad clubhouse guy and players simply don’t respect him. Now any other thoughts about Sammy as a possible Brave? Get off the drugs …..
No way the Braves and Yanks swap Betemit and Proctor. If anything it would involve another team in a 3 way. Straight up it is very bad for the Braves. I feel Chipper over the next few years will miss quite a few games. We are already seeing that this year and with age it gets worse. Great to have WB as insurance for Chipper or Renteria and also to play 2nd and PH. No way JS trades Betemit for Proctor without acquiring a leadoff guy as well. Perhaps Tampa Bay is in the mix?
Any move made this year should have a basis in the future not just a salve for current problems. You get rid of WB and you better sure have your answers because the Brave Nation will come down on JS. So I would dismiss the Yank rumors until you see some validity of another team in the mix. JS is not stupid enough to trade Betemit for another reliever of the type we already have simply because he is posting decent numbers since the break.
Again, the Braves future needs are starting pitching #1, TRUE leadoff #2, middle relief/closer type #3(just as insurance Wick doesn’t pull a Kolb).
Again, Giles is our best trade bait coupled with a prospect and reliever. Make a trade with those guys for a starter or leadoff and then that is what the Braves will need. I don’t worry a whole lot about the Braves really. I give JS a lot of rope, and why not, that he will come up with the right move(s). All I can say is that if you see Betemit being traded for Proctor stay glued to the wire because unless another team is involved then another trade will be right behind it within days.
By Native Son
July 26, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this
Looks like we all concur.Use any you like.Bad,stupid,crazy,dumb,…..desperate trade.
By Bill
July 26, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this
DOB, could the Yankees want to deal for Betemit and then ship him to San Diego for Linebrink? If they do that, they could also send cash to San Diego, much more than Atlanta could afford to give. That’s the only scenario I could envision where this deal would make sense for the Yankees.
By Head Coach
July 26, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this
Let me get this straight , we just traded a minor league catcher for a proven closer and now I’m supposed to believe we have to trade Wilson Betemit to get a middle reliever ? Thats just about the stupidest trade proposal I’ve heard yet.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 07:37 PM | Link to this
I don’t think Betemit should be traded unless we have a backup plan like I said but here’s a question. Yes, Chipper has been hurt the last two years, but he plays hard and well when he is in the lineup. Can Betemit hit 30+HRs and drive in 100+RBIs for the next 8 years? Does all the people clamoring for him to replace Chipper now believe that? What happens if he is not that type of hitter? Are you going to continue to cheer for him or are you going to turn him into Chipper II?
By SCDAWG
July 26, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this
BIG MISTAKE! The Brave will regret trading Betemit. Mark my words, he is on the verge of becoming a big star. If the braves want to trade someone trade GILES and leave Betemit be!!!
By ncscoots
July 26, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this
OK, krath, let me try it again. I’ve never said anything other than I think WB is a solid major league player, better than some, but not NEARLY as good as others. He has fairly major flaws in his game, and I point those out to they who think he has none. Does he have value? Heck, yeah, just not as much as perhaps you and others might think. But, hey, just my opinion, which I try to back up with facts, rather than perceptions.
By Bill
July 26, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this
Betemit’s age is listed wrong, he is only 24. I disagree DOB, Proctor had given up 9 bombs. THat is all we need is another pitcher to give up the long ball.
By Lateef
July 26, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this
Want to know why the Braves have 14 Division titles in a row and only 1 Championship? If they get rid of Betemit, then you’ll see why - again! The list of Braves cast-off’s is impressive. Who was that guy who won the World Series MVP in 2005? Jermaine Dye? Sure wish we had him! Oh, we did! If the Yanks neeb a 2b, then give ‘em Giles. WB more than makes up for his stats. Think the Braves will ever get big and bold like the Phillies who dumped Thome in favor of the new kid Ryan Howard? No, I didn’t either.
By dadgum
July 26, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this
“It’s funny, everybody I talked to in New York today (three different reporters) said people up there can’t believe Yankees would do this, and they don’t understand why they would, and everybody down here _ or a lot of people, at least _ says they don’t understand why Braves would do this and they cringe at the thought.
Amazing how we _ everybody _ sometimes put more value on what we see every day than what we don’t, at least when it comes to less-than-superstar players/pitchers whose numbers don’t scream excellence.”
Just read DOB post above…….goes right along with my post. Right on DOB. I am sure JS doesn’t need our input but maybe he reads these posts. Nah you’re right he doesn’t but I think the majority opinion is the Braves will not do this deal. They still gotta trade Giles and his big contract or off season arbitration away while they can. The Braves will not resign him given what the have in the pipeline.
By Pops
July 26, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this
This trade has not happened yet! I hope the GM is focusing on trades with teams which are OUT of the playoffs.
That being said, the Braves bloggers have been unmistakably proven right for their winter commentary. JS should have spent some friggin’ money in the off-season. Remlinger setting up Reeksma. Yikes!
By Carroll
July 26, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this
My gut tells me this trade aint happening, knowing JS’s propensity to not leak info about trades. By the time we hear about a trade rumor, it’s either already happened (i.e. Farnsy, Wickman, etc) or it’s dead. Fred McGriff and BJ Surhoff are among the few trades that come to mind where everyone suspected and speculated leading up to the deal that it would in fact go down.
By DonCoburleone
July 26, 2006 07:42 PM | Link to this
We need this win BAD tonight, Chipper and Andruw had better be in the lineup (and they are). If we lose this game, it really puts a crimp in our swagger, we’d be behind the freakin’ Marlins AGAIN!!! On another note, I like BC giving Langerhans the start tonight, the guy deserves it after those 2 catches last night… maybe it will give him confidence and it will turn his bat around. GO BRAVES!!!
By krath
July 26, 2006 07:45 PM | Link to this
No way Betemit needs to replace Chipper now, but don’t think you’re gonna find anyone who will do a better job than Wilson of backing up an injury prone Chipper now or in the near future. Chipper has a job as long as he’s suiting up and well enough to play. I personally haven’t ever suggested replacing Chipper with Wilson, but I’ve been a proponent of finding him regular playing time somewhere.
By Stanford
July 26, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this
If the Braves trade Betemit, then we have a need for some help at infield backup for the rest of this year - only. That’s probably why DOB reported that any deal is contingent on our finding someone on a 2 month rental.
Beyond that, Chipper and Renteria are both signed through 2009. Yunel Escobar is a prime prospect and though a SS, has also played 3B. He would back up SS and 3B next year.
I see Giles here next year (he’s under contract and if we trade Betemit, I would expect we plan on keeping him at least one more year), with Prado probably backing him up. We might move Giles next year at the d’line, or after next season.
So we’ve got the backup of 2B, SS and 3B covered for next year; the question is how to cover it the rest of this year.
By Stanford
July 26, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this
Through ‘08 on CJ and ER, that is.
By ChrisinPA
July 26, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this
Funny…just heard Buster Olney say that Betemit would play 1B if he goes to the Yankees. Can’t play first for the Braves, but go to the Yanks and BINGO !!
By DonCoburleone
July 26, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this
Oh, and I would not do the Betemit trade… I think we’d be better off to stand pat for this year, and in the offseason make some trades for more bullpen help. I’M SAYING THIS AGAIN: PUT THOMSON IN THE BULLPEN WHEN HE COMES BACK, HE WOULD BE THE OTHER ARM IN THE PEN THAT’S MISSING RIGHT NOW, MARK MY WORDS!
By Head Coach
July 26, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this
Giles for Proctor makes much more sense. He actually is a second baseman and thats what the Yankees apparently want. Betemit can play second , his defense isn’t as good as Giles but his bat more than makes up for that. All this is just secondary to the need for a leadoff hitter , which is more of a need than a middle reliever.
By This gets old
July 26, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this
NO, NO, NO! Maybe, MAYBE if..Proctor was the guy to put us over the top but with Hudson struggling still and Thompson coming back to pitch it seems as if they’re too many holes to fill.
Giles is arbitration eligible and no way is he worth what he’s going to recieve. While WB may not be a 2B he may in the end be more valuable where he is now.
While winning the wild card is possible I’m not going to trade a potential starter for a pitcher unless I’m getting a really solid guy (and they’re not out there).
Escobar may be a potential but they’ve been on him for some hot doggish behavior, Jake being suspended again, his running partner suspended again, Lerew and Salty taking steps back.
Trading WB now is stupid. Wanna trade him anyway and get something back? Trade him this winter but Chipper is hurt every year now you guys.
If you really want to trade him repeat to yourself….
Trading Jermaine Dye led to Gary Sheffield and his 11 million who led to J.D. Drew
can you say “hometown discount”? Good, cause Drew and Farnsworth couldn’t. Dance with who brung us.
By JJMB
July 26, 2006 08:04 PM | Link to this
crap. Smoltz is hurt again. crap.
By krath
July 26, 2006 08:06 PM | Link to this
Scoot, Marcus Giles has an uppercut swing that makes him a streaky hitter. If his timing is perfect, he gets hot. His timing is a little off he looks bad. Not a perception, a fact. You make statements like Betemit will never be a Jeff Kent. That’s not a proven fact yet… it’s your opinion which is based on a perception of the type of player he is. And you based that fact in an environment of watching him in a reserve role which is all he has had in his big league career.
Scoots, I have no problem listening to your opinions, but that’s all they are. Just like my opinions are just that… opinions. I just don’t feel as strongly that some of your “facts” are facts.
By dr fact and sniff
July 26, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this
its a fact that langerhans just made two s****y plays in the same game FACT
By Casual fan
July 26, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this
Don’t trade Betemit. Find a way to play him every day. Trade someone else!
By Peter
July 26, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this
Look we all said this winter that this bullpen was bull “S”. Next year this time we’ll be writing that we traded Estrada and Betemit for three guys who aren’t even around anymore.
Hold our water..and our young players. 14 out of 15 ain’t bad you guys. Patience. Make the solid trade, not the panic trade.
By Bob, journalist
July 26, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this
Just got up … haven’t read the posts above … why are we playing the Joneses? … I don’t like it, based on what we heard yesterday … miracle cures or running scared? I don’t like the notion of that trade either … if the Braves need bullpen help then get bona fide help … not Proctor he’s a bona fide Gamble.
By Choppin Bob
July 26, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this
Bob: jones boys are playing because we lost by 1 run last night, although they have contributed nothing tonight thus far.
By Longwood's Finest
July 26, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this
This doesn’t sound like JS at all. When was the last trade made that was publicized before any of us fans had an idea of something happening? I don’t like the trade, but if the Spankees will eat up Jorge Sosa with WB and package Nick Green/Miguel Cairo with Procter, then I would be a little happier about the trade.
By Longwood's Finest
July 26, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this
Smoltzie is definatly on his game tonight…
By Bob, journalist
July 26, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this
Thanks Choppin’ … that’s what I figured and hopefully, it isn’t a mistake. I thought we came close to gettin’ to that little boy last night, just some bad luck, bad calls and dumbness … sounded that way to me, listening on WGST.
By Choppin Bob
July 26, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this
cuz i’m in the north and tbs only shows 1-2 games a week i broke down and watch on mlb. putting the jones boys in the line up isnt gonna change things. we said it all along the O begins with WB, although i think he is only 1 for his last 9.
By Tony in Johns Creek
July 26, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this
This is not a good idea. I do not like this “proposed trade scenario.” Wilson Betemit has come into his own, and the offense is benefitting from his production and he’s making, what, less than a million a season? He’s a valid everyday player, for an iffy setup guy who may just be on a hot streak. I think they should put Betemay in left and keep Gilesy. Let’s keep our young talent and not get so concerned about making some sort of miracle run this year. We can shore up the bullpen more next year and we’ll be right back in there. Let the Jones boys rest!
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this
Man; just woke up from a three hour nap in time to see McCann hit that dinger. Smoltz’s stuff looks nasty tonight. I’m one of the few who actually like Langerhaans (for his effort and his D), but “Iron Man” for hitting intro music? Should be more like Prt Shop Boys or something. Give us an appropriate one, Two Homo Boys.
By Piledriver
July 26, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this
The John Smoltz whine-o-meter is at five tonight. In other words, pitches that little Johnny thought were a strike that weren’t called that way.
He has to be the most immature 39 year-old in the USA.
By Choppin Bob
July 26, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this
can someone tell me why we didnt hold that guy on 1st?
By Longwood's Finest
July 26, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this
well atleast the pitch count is low
By MurphyRules
July 26, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Piledriver. Real mature comments on your part. Why don’t you grow up.
By baseball joe
July 26, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this
DO IT!!! OUR PEN IS TERRIBLE!!! PROCTOR THROWS GAAAAAASSSSS BABY
PILLS PEAS BULLETS
One strikeout per inning… yesssss
By Mike
July 26, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this
Asbsolutely terrible trade. Betemit should be starting here! This is JS’s fault for all of his “throw ins” on trades the past few years. i.e. Wainright, Miner. Not to mention the Dan Kolb trade which started this whole mess.
By Snowball's Chance
July 26, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this
This blog is why I would never be a GM. We are talking high stakes poker and I am a dime quarter guy. Chipper knows Betamit has taken heat off him with his recurring injuries For the past two years. Can Betamit deliver when the pressure of NY hits? If he delivers with his potential it will get ugly on this blog.
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this
I wonder if that waas the first time in his career Langerhaans was intentionally walked. He looked puzzled.
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this
Hey, Snowball; where are my cigars, man?
By Choppin Bob
July 26, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this
good job marcus! what are you 0 for the week? oh wait i forgot you had an rbi hit that meant nothing last night.
By Lew
July 26, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this
Krath-I think Giles’ uppercut swing is not his normal swing. I think it’s a result of something that should be obvious to Terry Pendleton. Giles’ power is to the opposite field-to right center. Next time he bats, look at his stance. It is VERY open, his front foot pointing to left field. This is a classic pull hitters stance. Marcus is still trying to go to the opposite field and the result is pops to third or grounders to short. He needs to close his stance. Simple mechanics. Lately he has been stepping towards right a bit before he swings and is hitting somewhat better. Check it out and see if you think I’m right. Don’t trade Betemit, we need him as a back up this year and next. He won’t start in Atlanta. If Giles is traded, I’ll bet you BC brings up Prado to play 2nd.
By Tyler
July 26, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this
Betemit for Proctor? Please DON’T DO IT! Get rid of Giles. Betemit is a more consistent bat at a fragment of the cost. It would be a horrible move to throw a future star away on the hopes that an inconsistent reliever could help you for three months. PLEASE DON’T DO IT!!
By MurphyRules
July 26, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this
Why didn’t we pinch-hit for Smoltz in the sixth with the bases loaded?
Oh, yeah, our bullpen sucks. See how that one weakness dictates everything else?
Make the trade. Betemit isn’t nearly as good as everyone on this blog seems to think he is.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this
Giles is good hustle guy but he sucks this year pure and simple. As it stands we are only playing with 24 guys, we haven’t used Sosa in a week in a half. We have to be trading him for something even if it’s a bag of balls.
Smoltz just let another fly out of here. Which begs the question of whether we need another starter? I thinks we do and Lidle would be ideal. We have know bench power and I know Carl Everett just got designated yesterday.
Sosa for Everett. He’s a switch hitting rental. He can play all the OF positions and lets Thorman play first on regular basis. Besides LaRouche is overated defensively. Just saw one get under his glove. Adam sucks!
By eli
July 26, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this
betemit for hughes,farns,tabata,green
By journalist jimmy smith
July 26, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this
quick! get this team back on the road.
By Carroll
July 26, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this
F- it…just go ahead and trade him…makes no difference…we have absolutely NO pitching whatsoever and thus we have no prayer of the postseason…who cares.
By Lew
July 26, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this
Whatever.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this
LaRouche gaff will come around to score. Mark my words.
By mariner
July 26, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this
everett isn’t the answer. he was a waste of at-bats, and no one in seattle is sorry he’s gone. he should have been dfa’d last month
By Bob, journalist
July 26, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this
This is uggla … so was that swing that wasn’t called a strike .
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
andruw is the MAN!
By eli
July 26, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
praise andruw!!!!
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
Pretty tied up! G’NR reference.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
July 26, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
Way to go Andy…….. And what a horrible call by that ump
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
Man, if we lose 2 of 3 from the MARLINS, that bad move by Bobby (leaving Smoltz in to hit with the bases loaded) will be magnified. As for everyone screaming to trade Giles instead of Betemit, remember those teams are watching him hit .240 just like we are. Love his defense and his spirit, but the only teams that will show any interest in him are the ones that can see he belongs in a different spot in the order, and will be patient enough to wait for his psyche to heal after the months of humiliation he’s suffered in our moronic attempt to have him bat leadoff. Truthfully, I hope it’s the Braves that realize this, and put him back where he’s useful, as opposed to now where he’s about like goose S%&t on a pump handle.
By Bob, journalist
July 26, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this
I was concerned about playing Andruw … but wasn’t that a much smoother swing that what we’ve been seeing of late?!
By Sonny
July 26, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this
Giles batting leadoff tonight 0-4. And you guys are for trading Betemit???
By Longwood's Finest
July 26, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this
thats 2 bullsh!t ump calls in 2 games…
By MEB
July 26, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this
You know for a couple of weeks I was really enjoying this blog. Where did all of the naysayers come from?
Carroll… Dude, you need to get back on the medication.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this
I wonder how much those Krystal commercials cost to produce?
By Choppin Bob
July 26, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this
is it me or is there 99% of the fans wearing nothing that has to with the bravos? who are these people?
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this
If JS is going to trade Willy B. for Proctor, depite my protest, the least he could do is buy me some more offense. Our Bullpen sucks so at least find some offense so we can outscore the other team on a regular basis.
Seattle picks up .330 BA hitters like Ben Broussard and we are looking at journeymen MRP’s like Linebrink and Proctor. Dosen’t seem fair really.
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this
I’m really happy with the team, and I would cheer them if they went 0-162, I’m just irritated at some of the decisions going on at such a critical junction for us making (and advancing in) the playoffs. I’m NOT a fairweather fan; I just wish Bobby were a little more open-minded.
By Stanford
July 26, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this
LaRoche is a Wild Man!
By Choppin Bob
July 26, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this
that was a Roche clip!
By MurphyRules
July 26, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this
ROACHY!!!!!!!
By Bob, journalist
July 26, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this
Trade Adam, we need sombody that can hit leftys!
By Longwood's Finest
July 26, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this
is anyone hotter (at the plate) than Roachie?
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this
I’m feeling irrational again…trade LaRoche. He sucks and never hits homeruns…oh, you say he just hit one? Alllriiight! Go Adam! You people wanting to trade him are idiots!
By MEB
July 26, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this
Brawler… care to retract your statement?
By Hal
July 26, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this
Yea trade Larouche hes a bum lol the posts on this blog are so incrdible its better then reading Dilbert .Dilbert knows more about baseball lol
By Tony Almeida
July 26, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but LaRoche is a keeper.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this
I still hate Adam, but I’m glad he tied it up!
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this
Wouldn’t it be great if a team actually went 0-162. I’ll bet that stadium would be packed the last 2 weeks of the season with blood thirsty fans like the Roman Coliseum
By Tony Almeida
July 26, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this
Our 7th and 8th hitters - 6 for 6. Our leadoff hitter…..0 for 4
By journalist jimmy smith
July 26, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this
carolina lady, when you-know-who gets there be sure he gets some cod liver oil. forgot to pack it. thank you. grinch, journalist missed the link but will go in search. sadly, two more hostas have been lost. the leaves remain on the ground but the roots are missing. perhaps giles could come swing at the blue worms for jimmy smith and pitch them over the neighbor’s fence. swinging a wedge, right? now, pitching … oh, the humanity! longerhons (new way to say) hits better than langerhans. let’s keep longerhons in the game. now, the big-panted one comes into the game. why is journalist not in panic?
By Choppin Bob
July 26, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this
10 bucks half the people in the stands dont realize we have a closer now
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this
excuse me took the lead. There’s always one guy each year that totally despise on each years team. It’s been Adam for the past 2 years. Credit where credit is due. He came up big in his last at bat. If he did that consistently, I wouldn’t have problem with him. I’d still wouldn’t like him, though.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this
I’m assuming that your ERA starts over if you switch leagues during the season. When we got Jim Brower from San Fran, he got to keep his 6+ ERA. Lucky him.
By Zimo Z.
July 26, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this
The fat man is slinging.
By brian
July 26, 2006 10:05 PM | Link to this
I think that would be an idiotic trade and I would love to keep Betemit here and send Giles packing (in the offseason). Next year we could have Betemit and Prado at 2B.
I think this leak is a feeble attempt by JS to squeeze another team for more for Betemit. I was hoping Betemit could play everyday for the Braves, not be dealt to another team to watch him play everyday.
Gotta give props to LaRoche here lately.
By eli
July 26, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this
to hell with a platoon..laroche is our 1B…i have to admit, i wanted him gone after his boneheaded play earlier in the season, but since he’s gotten to play everyday, he has that he is legit and deserves the job…now lets just get rid of giles and find us 2 more bullpen guys and wiat on thomson and davies and stockman to get healthy…go braves!!
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 10:08 PM | Link to this
“el Gordo” Bob Wickman with the save!
By JJMB
July 26, 2006 10:08 PM | Link to this
As long as Giles gets his at bats, I’m happy. BC, don’t stop batting Giles leadoff! .246 is good enough! In fact, .235, .230, it’s all good. Sure, he is crashing this season, but I love to see the cute lil’ feller out there. He is an inspiration to short fans everywhere.
Yeah, Benemí would never ever be able to excell at 2b. He would never be able to have incredible range at 2b. He can’t leap about 26” higher than Giles. Why? Because I read it on this blog.
By Tony Almeida
July 26, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this
After 4 appearances, does Wickman lead the Braves team in saves already?
By brian
July 26, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this
Gotta like Wickman so far. Wonder if he would stay here next year for $5 mill or so. Getting Boyer back next year, and more experience for Yates and Paronto and McBride - not half bad.
By MurphyRules
July 26, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this
Man, we stole that one!!!!
Wicky, wicky, wicky!!!
By jennifer
July 26, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this
what a game… go braves
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this
Oh, my goodness, is that a save that just happened. Hotlanta, we have found a closer. We actually won a one run game.
Wickman won’t make a difference? He already has. I dare say not one Braves reliever has gone three straight outings without allowing a run and only allowing just one hit.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this
Rockies lost, Giants on the ropes, Reds are losing, D’Backs lost, Brewers lost, Dodgers lost.
Could be profitable night for the Bravos!
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this
to make Wickman’s stay better, maybe we should return to the days of bringing relief pitchers into the game via golf cart.
By MEB
July 26, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this
Hey, they are interviewing Adam Larouche on the post game. Are they telling him how much he sucked? Ohhhh… no,I think he is the star of the game.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this
I wonder if Bobby is getting the not so subtle hint that LaRoche is giving him that he is a lot more comfortable playing everyday instead of platooning. For a guy that can’t hit lefties he is sure spanking them out of the park.
Isn’t that like his 4th HR in the last 3 games? All of them off of lefties.
By Betemit for Proctor
July 26, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this
Here is a really good idea…
Does anyone in New York know what Wilson Betemit looks like? Really?
Probably not, so here’s what we do: we send esteemed journalist Jimmy Smith to New York in exchange for Scott Proctor. That way we can keep Betemit (who would have to pose as someone else - at least until the Yankees cut the faux ‘Betemit’).
I would have suggested sending the baby seal, but the Yankees do not allow facial hair.
By Beachcomber
July 26, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this
Great game. Seriously, is two consecutive saves a season high for the Braves? On the Proctor deal - there is a reason Yankess fans call him Proctor and Gamble. If we trade WB, we can do better.
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this
Funny comment about the clip, Choppin’ Bob! I expect Wickman could find a few folks around Atlanta now who would buy him a cold, frosty one. Glad Laroche and Andruw bailed Bobby out of this one. I thought it hilarious that the chick interviewing Laroache afterwards asked him if he was feeling calm now. As oppsoed to what? The guy has thorazine running through his veins!
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this
Alright, back to this Betemit for any quality reliever thing…if we have a utility guy that will never be an everyday player that other teams with relief help covet, you gotta make the trade.
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this
As for trading Jornalist Jimmy, would Scott Proctor fill in in the third person in this blog? Jimmy, the link is http://www.filecabi.net/video/alienwormback.html The title is “Alien worm found in backyard?”
By tfbrave
July 26, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this
If Betemit could play OF for the Yankees, why has he not been tried here? LF is the only offensive hole when everyone is healthy. Stick Betemit out there and our 1-8 is very formidable.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this
Hey, like I said Props to LaRouche tonight. He’s been swinging a hot bat the last 3 weeks. He’ll have to do alot more of that down the stretch in order for the Braves to be successful. There were and are just too many times that LaRouche wathed called 3rd strikes with the bat on his shoulder.
If you up at the plate, I only ask 3 things: swing at strikes, know the situation, be willing to give yourself up to move the runner over. I learnt all the above from the Fred McGriff hitting video!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this
Is it me or did Roachy start hitting better when he started playing everyday? Hmmmmmmmm!
I think Brian Jordan’s broken clavicle should stay broken for the rest of the year. I swear if Bobby tries to pull some crap of having BJ platoon with Roachy again after he comes off the DL I will personally write a letter demanding Cox’s firing. Platoons only work when you truly have guys who truly struggle against same hand pitchers.
I have never understood that thinking of not letting left handed hitters hit against left handed pitching. How do you know they can’t hit left handed pitching unless you let them play against it. You have to wonder what could of become of Ryan Klesko?
An everyday player is an everyday player. Adam is an everyday player. I will admit I advocated trading him in the offseason for a leadoff hitter or some starting pitching. But, I have changed my course of thinking. This guy is the 1B of the present and future for the Braves. I think hitting down in the lineup has helped him but I think playing everyday has helped him a lot more. Think about it? Earlier in the year when BJ was playing it seemed like LaRoche never played more than 2 or 3 games in a row. It seemed like the Braves faced a lot of lefties. Now, that he is getting some consistency in his playing time he is more comfortable and focused. All of that tinkering to a lineup messes with everyone in the lineup. Again, I think there is no coincidence in the fact that this offense truly got going when the same lineup went out there day in and day out.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this
Well, will never be an everyday player for Atlanta because the Braves are a racist club and should never have traded David Justice and Marquis Grissom…oh, sorry. I was momentarily possessed by Terrance Moore.
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this
I know it isn’t blue, and the fur covers it’s toes, but could it be related somehow? Maybe they should have fed it beer. Mmmmmmm……Beeeeeerr……
By TDub
July 26, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this
Man, I am so glad I’m not watching the game with some of you… Brooklyn Braves Brawler, Piledriver, Carroll, etc. - my god, how knee- jeck reactionary and negative can you possibly be?
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this
I think Chipper being in the line-up instead of Betemit may actually be an indication that a deal with someone may be close. Did Proctor enter tonight’s game against Texas?
By Marquis's
July 26, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this
If Marquis Grissom married Jason Marquis (assuming that were legal) then he would be Marquis Marquis. Or Marky Mark for short.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this
Not tonight. Proc pitched 2 innings last night. He’s got 15 holds this year (essential for a setup guy) and that ranks 8th in the AL.
By 3pitch
July 26, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this
Betemit reminds me of Alphonse Soriano, and it would be a huge mistake to trade him. I am not a fan of JS’s trades since the Millwood trade. That was only one of his salary dump trades. Then there are the player rentals where he usually overpays. Look at the JD Drew trade. He no longer has the money to spend, so he spends his prospects. It is time for him to retire before the destroys the team.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this
That “civil union” would be perfectly legal in Massachusetts (sp?).
By eli
July 26, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this
proctor sucks…one good season, or one good month maybe…get us a real set up man for some prospects or for giles
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this
To be fair, that Millwood trade can be blamed on Greg Maddux for accepting the arbitration offer no one thought he would.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this
Here’s what JS needs to do. Give the Cubs a call and offer Giles and minor leaguer for Todd Walker and Ryan Demptster. Dempster could be the set up guy for Wickman. He would be much better as the setup guy. Walker gives us a 2B for the rest of the year. He and Betemit could split them and leadoff. Walker is a good patient hitter and veteran (who isn’t older than dirt) so Bobby would be very happy. We could attempt to resign both at the end of the year or that the very least Dempster. He isn’t going to get many offers to be a closer. We then offer some mid level prospects to the Orioles for Jeff Connine. We send Pete Orr down to Richmond or give him his walking papers. Either way who cares. The O’s will accept this deal because Connine has an option at the end of the year and really don’t have a reason to resign a 40 year old guy for a team trying to rebuild to compete in the AL East. Plua, Connine would accept the deal as well because he would have a chance to get back to the playoffs, which he isn’t going to do this year in Baltimore.
Imagaine the bench with Betemit/Walker, Connine, Thorman, Diaz, and Pratt…..well, okay not Pratt but we have to have a backup catcher. Tell me who in the National League would have a bench as good. And we could fit all of it under the budget. We have 4 mil to spend and between the three acquisitions we would only be spending about 3mil of that.
The bullpen would feature Wickman, Dempster, Ray, Paronto, Yates, Villareal, and Stockman. Once Thomson and Davies come back from the DL we could then place one of them in the pen and send either Villareal or Stockman back down to the minors. I guess preferably Stockman because he is young and inexperienced. Now, all of a sudden our bullpen goes from being a joke to being perhaps the best pen of the wild card teams. The only team that could even get close to saying they have a better pen is the Astros.
Sounds good, huh? And its all very doable.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
July 26, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this
Hey, I love the Brave just as much as you all do. I love all my teams (Cowboys, Spurs, A&M Aggies) that I support and root for. I’m passionate about my teams and I want to see them win every year. Case closed. I think that Bobby and JS play it close to the vest alot and as a result we have underachieved in the playoffs for 13 of the last 14 years.
La Rouche is playing well, confidence and playing time are a big part of that. You can say the same for Betemit. I venture to say that you could get more for LaRouche now, than Betemit. Just because I don’t like LaRouche, dosen’t mean I don’t love the Braves. I just don’t like the way he plays and think there are more consistent 1B options out there that can help the Bravos. you say I’m knee-jerk but the clock is ticking on this team. Smolts is getting any younger, Andruw is coming up on a contract year next year, Chipper is a big bandage. If you are going to be threat then it has to now.
In the words of Hermann Edwards “You play to win the game!”
By eli
July 26, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this
proctor in for yanks…gives up 2 runs to blow the ‘save’ situation….we do not need this guy!!!!…but obviously had to be a bogus rumor since he is in the game
By JJMB
July 26, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this
it’s spelled “massatwoshits.”
By mariner
July 26, 2006 10:55 PM | Link to this
proctor gives up three staight hits, 3 runs, and the lead. hope this puts the kibosh on this trade.
By Not Huey Long
July 26, 2006 10:55 PM | Link to this
WORST TRADE EVER!!
By MEB
July 26, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this
Why would the fact that Proctor (kinda looks like Reitsma to me) is pitching tonight negate the trade?
By eli
July 26, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this
i sure hope JS is watching proctor implode against the rangers…he would make our pen worse..i would rather keep what we got than add him for betemit
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this
I’m not defending some of LaRoche’s mental blunders at 1st but those could have something to do with not playing everyday. Someone like him needs a reason to be focused everyday. This is not football or even basketball when an injury can occur out of nowhere and you have to always be on call. Not to mention baseball is as much routine sport as there is. Playing constistently only helps guys get better.
By the way, if the Yanks are considering that trade, they may be rethinking it right now. TJ Beam one of the guys who would take Proctor’s place is getting his a** handed to him by the Rangers right now.
I think Betemit was out of the lineup because Chipper was tired of sitting on the bench. I just hope Chipper doesn’t aggrevate (sp?) the injury even more. We need him for the weekend. I would be willing to bet Chipper doesn’t play tomorrow.
ALERT Turn to ESPN our potential new setup guy is about to come into the game. We will definitely see what he’s made of because he has got a real mess to clean up.
By No Way!!
July 26, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this
Proctor is getting shelled on ESPN by Texas as we speak. I believe his line is 3 runs on 3 hits while not recording an out. We don’t need another one of these guys in our pen. No thanks, I will keep Betemit.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this
Sorry, my bad. They brought in Chacon instead. By the way I would rather have Chacon than Proctor.
By m
July 26, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this
It’s four straight hits without recording any outs. As if the Braves need more performance like that. Proctor looks fishy to me.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 26, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this
that is an ugly worm … but not fierce. the ugandan blue worm is fierce. that worm is a laroche worm - powerful but reserved and moving slowly across the floor. the blue worms darts about and leaves tracks. now, as to this proposed trade of journalist jimmy smith for only a middle reliever. why not trade for a-rod or for pujols? and what makes the blogger think jimmy smith would be cut? journalist does not look at all like bait-a-meat but would be willing to pose as bettermint if it will help journalist’s beloved atlanta braves. journalist will now practice being uh, a you know, a uh, ballplayer.
By Bob, journalist
July 26, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this
“If you’re going to boo me when I’m struggling, then boo me now or don’t do anything … If you’re going to call in and say you don’t want me here, that’s fine.
But I don’t want those same guys to be standing up for me when things are going well. That’s just the way I am. I’ve got no problem with you if you hate me. But stick to your guns, don’t go back and forth.”
Good for Adam!!
By Carolina Lady
July 26, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this
Interesting 2 pages from SI
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this
Forget Proctor. The more I think about it I don’t want to do anything to help the Evil Empire. The Red Sox must dethrone them this year.
I think my proposed deals to the Cubs and Orioles will make the Braves the undeniable wild card favorite and very dangerous come playoff time. We would have a bullpen that could compete with the Mets’ and a bench that would definitely be deeper.
By krath
July 26, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this
Yeah, watching the game here to.
**Proctor 4 straight hits
2 inherited runners scored 1 earned run 0 outs recorded, left with bases loaded and 0 outs.**A definite bullpen upgrade for the Braves huh?
By MEB
July 26, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this
Two thumbs way up for Adam! I could not be happier that he is playing first base for the Atlanta Braves.
By Alchemy
July 26, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this
According to DOB, if I am reading it correctly, LaRoche has turned booze into applesauce.
Damn, if only he could reverse the process.
By eli
July 26, 2006 11:13 PM | Link to this
proctor would not have entered the game if a trade was imminent…surely JS can get more for betemit than a sorry middle reliever like proctor…i would rather us bring up wayne franklin,devine,lerew,startup…any of those guys have to be just as good as proctor
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this
Jornalist Bob, did Adam really say that? If he did, he has much of my respect. JJ Smith, you’re a 10 and 5 guy, aren’t you? You could veto that trade. Besides, who would monitor the progress of the blue worms for us? And for that matter, could baby seal make the transition to NY? There would be plenty of fish, but also much unpleasant time in front of the camera…
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this
Alchemy, one actually can make booze from apples and yeast, I don’t see why not from the sauce…
By Jman
July 26, 2006 11:20 PM | Link to this
Betemit should be traded for nothing less than a 3rd starter or a solid setup guy who we can control for 2 or 3 years. Not a 3 month rental.
By MEB
July 26, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady… isn’t it wonderful that the Mets are squirming like (of all things) worms.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 11:24 PM | Link to this
4.5 games back in the WC race all by our lonesome with 62 games left. I like our chances.
By burt
July 26, 2006 11:24 PM | Link to this
trading betemit is stupid,stupid,stupid.if this trade is made, they ought to run js and bobby both out of town.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady, that was an intersting article. I don’t think the Marlins will trade Willis and I definitely don’t think they will trade him to the Mets or the Braves for that matter. They have already helped the Mets enough. Thiis Marlins team is not that far off. They will be a definite wild card contender next year if not for the division. And, honestly they don’t need Milledge that bad. Let’s not say as much as the Braves do. How would you like that guy leading off with the likes of Renteria, Chipper, and Andruw hitting behind him. But, of course, hell would freeze over before the Mets would make any kind of trade with the Braves and vice versa.
I think Mr. Minaya painted himself into a corner with all of his offseason acquisitions. The one area he really didn’t address was the depth of the starting rotation. I would dare say, if Hudson gets his act together, that from top to bottom our rotation is much better. We don’t have Glavine and Pedro but our 3 through 5 are much better. I would take Chucky or Horacio over any of those posers they have.
The Mets can’t win the WS with the rotation they way it is. I will go one step further. They can’t win the NLCS with that rotation. They couldn’t beat the Braves, Cards, Giants, Padres, or even the Reds. All of those teams have deeper rotations. I would take Horacio in game 3 and a game 7 of the NLCS over Trachsel any day of the week.
I bet the Marlins would play hardball with the Mets and demand Milledge and Pelphrey. Why would they trade a quality starter without getting a potential quality starter in return.
The Mets are panicking. Their worse fear is that the Braves win 2 of 3 this weekend or even worse yet sweep, which Atlanta is very capable of doing. The Mets problem is that almost every team is in contention and those who are not in contention don’t have any quality pitchers. At least none they are willing to give up. Maybe instead of fleecing the Marlins for LoDuca and Delgado or backdooring the Braves for Franco they should have asked the Marlins for Willis. I bet at the time they would have made the deal and it wouldn’t have cost them a damn thing. But, the young Marlins look like the ‘91 Braves and know they have a gold mine of young talent that will make up a playoff contender next year.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this
According to the “rumor,” the Braves were talking to teams with more to offer than the Yankees. Be cool.
By Dirty Dawg
July 26, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this
Bigg Daddy’s right. Keep Betemit…repeat, keep Betemit. Call it Jermaine Dye or a Bret Butler, he’ll be an allstar for years to come. Do anything else…hell, trade Renteria…certainly those folks out in San Diego would love to re-unite the Giles boys for the stretch run - for Linebrink.
Don’t let Betemit get away…please. Then again all this is probably just the Yankees going off like they do…assuming that if they, or more likely some NY sports guy, just thinks that they’re interested in somebody then it must be so…well, maybe it ain’t. I sure hope it ain’t.
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the link, Carolina Lady. It’s so funny to see these losers panic when the Braves start to get hot, even when they have a virtually insurmountable lead…It’s almost like “Chicken Little” was required reading in the Ney York city school system!
By journalist jimmy uh, smith
July 26, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this
journalist is lonely without baby seal here - it is back to the life of the single journalist. cheese, crackers, cheese, toast, cheese. ever wonder why dob is grumpy sometimes? packed. that’s right, packed. cheese can constipate. if a journalist is going to eat lots of cheese (all journalists) that journalist should only eat wisconsin cheese. why, you ask? ask dob. now, wicky … what kind of cheese was that? who can recall a braves reliever pitching to 10 batters and not a single pitch leaves the park? now, the trade … journalist is prepared to do what is best for the team.
By Glass Half Full
July 26, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this
All this negativity here has led me to break out “Friday the 13th Part 2” on DVD. Jason just stabbed the horny couple with the spear! Hilarious.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this
Where’s LaTwan?
By journalist jimmy smith
July 26, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this
perhaps LeTwan will return if jimmy smith is traded.
By Jigoku kôshien
July 26, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this
Why fascination with Milledge of New York Mets? Batting only .233.
When Francoeur only batting .233, want to run him out of town.
Why John Scheurholz not look to Japan?
Whither next Ichiro?
By Todd A
July 26, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this
This is the price you pay when your GM sits on his brains all winter focusing on his book,rather than putting a contending team together.Now,you have to pay a premium price for a journeyman pitcher,when he or (someone equivalent)could have been had for much less this off-season.I would keep Betemit before I would Renteria;eventhough,we gave up the #1 prospect in the organization to get him.
By tigger101023
July 26, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this
The more I think about it, the more I HATE THIS TRADE. Mind you, I’m not one of the people opposed to trading Betemit for relief help, I’m actually ok with Linebrink. But not some unproven freikin middle reliever with an obscene number of innings on his arm this year. The number of innings he has thrown this year is CRIMINAL. It reminds me of what the DBacks did to Villarreal back his rookie season and he’s still not back to what he was, he may never be.
You cannot make this trade as a short-term fix - the guy will spend September and the playoffs on the !@#$%^&* DL.
PLEASE JS, WALK AWAY FROM THIS AWFUL DEAL!!
By The Grinch
July 26, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this
GHF, “The horny couple?” Boy, that narrows it down in FT13th movies! Man, been a while since I’ve seen that one. Before I made a trade for Journalist Jimmy, I would have to see the portfolios of at least three talented prospective journalists, none over 25 or eligible for trade in the next 3 seasons. Either that, or someone like Len Pasquarelli who could still write at a high level while setting an example for our younglings. Though Len looks like he might have had a bit too much cheese…
By Pachoo
July 26, 2006 11:52 PM | Link to this
I think you have Wilson Betemit’s birthday wrong. ESPN has it wrong as well. Remember, Braves got in trouble for signing him TOO young. His listed age was older than he really was.
Betemit’s birthday is November 2, 1981. He is only 24 years old and won’t turn 25 until November. He is only a year and a half older than Jose Reyes and has outhit Reyes so far in their careers. It would be ridiculously stupid to trade Betemit for a career minor leaguer like Scott Proctor. I hope Schulerholz isn’t that dumb.
By Chris
July 26, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this
A potentially perennial all-star for a set-up man? LOL.. Yeah right…. Let’s put down the crack pipe…
By Pachoo
July 26, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this
Here is an explanation of the Betemit birthday mix up:
Wilson Betemit is actually currently 24 years old. His date of birth is correct here on baseball-reference, but is INCORRECT in the official media guide and mlb.com/espn.com. See this article: http://savannahnow.com/stories/022900/SPTbravesnotes.shtml
If you are going to trade Betemit for a reliever, get someone that is flat out nasty like Linebrink. Proctor isn’t that good. He is going to be a journeyman, mediocre reliever type for his entire career.
Please, please, please, ONLY trade Betemit for a TOP reliever. Betemit is being severly underrated in these trade talks.
By Bob, journalist
July 26, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this
Grinch … Adam said it … lead Article, AJC Sports Home Page.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2006 11:57 PM | Link to this
Everyone needs to calm down. The fact that this trade rumor has gotten so much press tells me that it is not going to happen. JS likes to work under the radar. Just like Wickman. No one saw that coming. Sure he had been mentioned but nothing substantial. That is why I said the other day I think this “sleeper” team for Soriano is the Braves. I really do. What other GM in baseball keeps everything so close to the vest. Now, I’m not sure how this deal would work out for the Braves but if Giles is part of the deal I could definitely see it. Maybe JS feels like most of you that Giles is not a very lucrative catch and he won’t bring back much so trading him for Soriano (even though we would only have Soriano for this year) is worth it. Lord knows Soriano in this lineup would make it almost unpitchable. And lets face it. No matter what team gets him will not have a good chance of resigning him. He has made it clear that he would like to test the free agent waters and he also said that he would not mind returing to the Nationals. I find that intersting because the Nationals can’t offer much more money than the Braves could.
By journalist PENN
July 27, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this
DOB, it looks to this old journalist that the vote on a Betermit for Proctor trade gets about a 100-1 NO. My vote makes it 101-1 AGAINST.
I think that would be about the dumbest thing JS could possibly do. This team needs Betemit if it wants any chance at a wild card this year. That bare handed play Wilson made a day or two ago is indicative of what he can do. Trading him is simply not very bright.
By Todd A
July 27, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this
GHF,my favorite Friday the 13th was Jason takes Manhattan.Dude’s head rolled into the dumpster……lol funny stuff.Laughed through the whole movie.Agree Pachoo,ridiculously stupid is a good description of this potential trade.Whose advising JS on trades these days?If it’s Fregosi,he needs to go back to the dugout.Please,don’t make this trade.
By Bob, journalist
July 27, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this
Grinch, Mama called as I was posting … actually, it’s in “Laroach Not Forgetting Boos” … by our own David O’B … got to run but expect to be back in a bit.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this
Thanks, Bob! Glad to hear LaRoche has some stones; though I’ve never been as much on his case as most people here, I’ve always thought he was kind of like “Beaker” from the muppets. Good deal. I like this team. Hope Bobby gets some inspiration from a dream that makes him versatile, to take advantage of them. For the record, I like Bobby too, just wish he wasn’t so rigid.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 27, 2006 12:09 AM | Link to this
If the Yanks would send us Ron Villone, Melkey Cabrera, and Robinson Canoe then the trade should be made. Otherwise, JS should tell the Evil Empire to kiss his a**. Heck throw in Giles.
Seriously, I wonder if the Yanks would take a deal involving Giles and Langerhans for Canoe, Villone, and Cabrera. The Braves could even throw in Jurries.
By Todd A
July 27, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this
Would you give up Giles,probably Salty,and a guy like Startup to the Nationals for Soriano?That’s what it would probably take to get him….and for only a 2 month rental at that.Steep price to pay,but the stretch run could be real interesting if a guy like that was in the lineup.
By Pachoo
July 27, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this
Betemit vs Reyes is interesting. Betemit is only one year and seven months older than Reyes. We have to remember that. And thus far, Betemit has proven to be the better hitter.
2005:
Reyes - 686 OPS Betemit - 794 OPS
2006:
Reyes - 805 OPS Betemit - 861 OPS
Birthdates:
Reyes - June 11, 1983 Betemit - November 2, 1981
ESPN’s birthdate for Betemit is wrong.
For what Betemit is doing, and has been doing over the past 2 seasons, at such a young age, he sure isn’t getting any pub. He has outplayed ESPN’s goldenboy, Reyes, yet no one is noticing.
IMO, Betemit is better than Reyes. His play has shown as much. Why would we trade Betemit away for a 29 year old career minor leaguer??? RIDICULOUS trade if it happens.
By Bob, journalist
July 27, 2006 12:13 AM | Link to this
If John makes this trade, then maybe we should consider trading him as well … just so long as we can keep the notes he made while writing the book … all of his secrets are probably hidden therein.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 27, 2006 12:15 AM | Link to this
Todd, I would honestly consider that deal. I try to keep Startup out of it, but Giles and Salty would have to go. Look, Salty really is expendable. Would I like to keep him? Of course. But, really, where is he going to fit in. We have first baseman and catchers that are ahead of him and not going anywhere.
By Todd A
July 27, 2006 12:16 AM | Link to this
LOL Grinch.My bro calls LaRoche “Beaker” as well.
By Matt
July 27, 2006 12:17 AM | Link to this
I wouldn’t worry too much about this trade. It’s not going to happen. Can anyone recall ANY trade that has happened so far that was a rumor for a day or two. I can’t. But maybe their out there or just haven’t happened yet. Who knows. The only way I would trade Betemit or Giles would be for was Robert(Justice) said, to the Cubs for Walker and Dempster or to the Padres for Linebrink and a utitilty guy or bring up Prado or another young one.
Trade rumors, I usually ignore them b/c most of these experts (not knocking you DOB) don’t really know and are probably being used by the teams to try to rig the market.
Hey Harold Reynolds, can I have a hug.
By flbravesgirl
July 27, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this
“Beaker”. LOL! Actually, Grinch, I’ve always thought Adam looked just like Bert from Sesame Street.
Count me among the multitudes who don’t like this rumored trade. If JS is going to get a reliever, please get a consistent one.
And we can’t trade journalist jimmy either. NYC would be a very poor enviroment in which to raise baby seal.
By Matt
July 27, 2006 12:21 AM | Link to this
Yeah Todd, trading peices, like Giles & Salty who probably don’t have much future in our organization anyway, for a bad-as$ rental would be smart. But if that did happen, no way we would sign him and I’m not too sure if JS would trade w/ McKay since he tried to take our Scouting Director from us the other day. JS is probably pissed at McKay.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 12:23 AM | Link to this
Hey, I’d like to have Soriano as much as anyone, but remeber the Tigers of the 80’s and 90’s? Losing 16-14 every game is fun to watch, but…
By Matt
July 27, 2006 12:23 AM | Link to this
Did anybody see that boxer who was dancing aroung being cocky get knocked out on ESPN highlights. Funny.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 27, 2006 12:25 AM | Link to this
Matt, I really think the getting Walker and Dempster from the Cubs and Connine from the Orioles would put this team over the top. Those are three quality players that cost very little money. You can’t beat that. Its not Carlos Lee or Soriano but its better than the status quo.
Another thing. Has anyone else noticed how quiet the whole team sale issue has been? You have to wonder if JS knows something the rest of us don’t. Maybe he has more to work with than we know. Maybe Liberty has already said the payroll could be increased. Or perhaps Liberty is buying the Braves but JS knows who is. Something is just very suspicious about the whole thing. Things are way too quiet and JS is waaaaaaaaaaaay to busy making deals. Remember when he said that the sale of team had no effect on any deals he would make. Well, if he was under a strict budget, that is an awfully weird statement to make.
I could be wrong, but someting big is about to happen. I think our esteem GM is about to make a big splash. One that could maybe shake up those Metropolitans in New York. Because like I said they are painted into a corner and have no way out. I guess that is what they get for relying on Jose Lima to start.
By Matt
July 27, 2006 12:27 AM | Link to this
I agree w/ you Grinch, we need pitching help more than anything. But then again, who doesn’t.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 12:31 AM | Link to this
Actually, upon further reflection, if no other deals on piching look palatable, pull the deal on Soriano. It may be the Stoli talking, but that sure would be fun to watch…Glad I’m not the only one who noticed the resemblence…:-)
By Todd A
July 27, 2006 12:32 AM | Link to this
Are the enlistment lines growing any longer for Adam’s Army?Last time I looked,it was still only 2 people.But,the way dude’s blowing up right now,he should get a few more raw recruits by the Mets’series.What are Franceour’s Franks doing these days?
By matt
July 27, 2006 12:32 AM | Link to this
Do not trade Bettimit for Proctor, hopefully we can dump Giles and his Salary for some bullpen help. Bettimit is going to be a star in this league for years to come. Playing full time second this year he would at least go 25/85 at a minimum which is twice as much as we will get from Giles. Four names if the Braves pull this one. Brett Butler/ Len Barker BADDDD!!! Jermaine Dye / Michael Tucker ?????
By Matt
July 27, 2006 12:35 AM | Link to this
Good point about the team sale. makes you wonder. I can’t wait to see what is going to happen to the Mets. They have 9 games against us. 10 against the Marlins. Series w/ the Padres, Cardinals, Rockies, Dodgers & Houston. Plus they still have to play the Nats and Phils. Thats a pretty tough schedule outside of our division. We have the Pirates, Brewers, Giants, Reds, Cubs & Astros.
The Mets have to play the better Central and West teams than we do in the second half.
By Wally
July 27, 2006 12:35 AM | Link to this
Three way trade: Soriano and Livan Hernandez to Braves for Horacio and Giles. Washington sends Giles to San Diego for Linebrink. San Diego sends Barfield to Washington. Soriano plays second and Livan starts for us. The Yankees are not gonna give up Proctor for Betemit because that puts them one man down in their pen. If anything they might be willing to part with Farnsworth who would be welcomed back here. Too bad for Harold Reynolds maybe Turner South can pick him up as a free agent. He can harass Torborg all he wants.
By Ike
July 27, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this
Forgive me for not joining the Adam LaRoche pity party. On june 22, when adam Laroche went 0-4 and was hitting .239 and we lost our 10th consecutive game i was pissed. and i didn’t go so far as to boo laroche, but i certainly couldn’t blame the people who paid $30 bucks for this crap and booed him.
Adam, if us fans our indifferent about the team playing badly and losing, then how do you think we would be once the team started winning?
I’m overjoyed at the way LaRoche is playing, and i think his success is an integral part of the braves’ success. I don’t dislike adam laroche, but he deserved to be criticized back in june as much as he deserves the praise he’s getting now.
By Sharon
July 27, 2006 12:38 AM | Link to this
Don’t do it. Leave WB alone.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this
Good point, Ike; he did suck. But I didn’t get on him then and I won’t now. Just me, I guess. Like to give folks the benefit of the doubt, until they prove THUROUGHLY that they don’t deserve it, like Reitsma and Sosa.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 27, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this
But, Ike, that criticism is not totally fair. I still say the fact Adam is playing everyday has a lot to do with the way he is playing. I don’t think its a coincidence. Adam came into spring training thinking he would get to play everyday. I remember him even saying that he wanted the chance to play everyday. But, Bobby and his obsession with 1B platoons stiffled his oportunity. I honestly believe LaRoche would have 25+Hrs and 80+RBI if he had been playing everyday instead of platooning with Brian “I couldn’t hit a tee baller’s fastball” Jordan.
By Lew
July 27, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this
Robert-You might just be right. JS doesn’t talk when he deals. After what he stole Wickman for, does everyone really think he is going to dump Betemit for a third rate reliever? Come on. He isn’t sitting on his hands or signing his book. Something big will happen. The head of Liberty also said he wants the Braves successful-that that was a major selling point. Hold on.
By rob
July 27, 2006 12:51 AM | Link to this
I don’t want this trade to happen If we trade him, then it should be a damn good deal for Wilson and the Braves.
He is not a natural second baseman, so I don’t see how his role would be any different in NY. He is much better off staying here and getting a big contract in a few years.
Proctor is tempting, but Wilson is too good to let go for such a questionable deal.
BTW, how good would the Braves’ record be right now if we got Wickman back in December?
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 01:00 AM | Link to this
Lew, have you been hiding behind the scenes this whole time? I thought Head Coach had run you off by saying you knew nothing of the game. Good thing you didn’t listen…morons have way too much influence in public discourse already!
By David O'Brien
July 27, 2006 01:02 AM | Link to this
Wow, just got home and read through the posts. Some truly entertaining stuff. You guys are very witty, very clever, and very passionate. I absolutely love that s#$@.
Outstanding turnout on The Braves and The Man in Black blogosphere tonight, and it’s much appreciated. It’s all about having passion, man, and anybody that reads the comments from all of you would be hard-pressed to make that tired argument about how nobody in Atlanta cares about the Braves and blah blah blah.
Anyway, hey, I can fully understand why so many of you don’t want to trade Betemit. I would just add, though, that the Braves wouldn’t do it if they don’t think they’ve got someone else to come in as a super utility guy to fill that role. Folks, they really need another proven bullpen guy, and Proctor has been lights-out more often than not. He had a bad game tonight, but Torre’s pitching him to death, tonight being the third consecutive game he’s used him after throwing two innings last night. So I wouldn’t put too much stock in the performance. Everybody I talk to with Yankees or those who cover them say this guy throws gas and also has three other pitches, and that he could be a helluva starter if they went that direction.
Also, someone said he’d be a rental. Not at all. He’s not even eligible for arbitration until after next season. He’ll make a salary comparable to Betemit next year, and be a guy the Braves could build the bullpen around next year, although they’ll still need to go out and get a closer almost certainly, since he hasn’t done that role.
Again, I’m understanding your feelings about Betemit. Just telling you these talks are for real. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen, but it’s pretty serious. Yanks may back out because they don’t want to lose Proctor if Dotel’s not ready, and he’s not ready. So we’ll see.
Still, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if it happens. And someone here blogged a few times about no leaks with Schuerholz, so he doesn’t believe it’ll happen because of that. That means nothing. The Yankees organization is a sieve when it comes to leaks, and when you get one that comes out like today, you can then take that and work your own sources to confirm it.
Like the Hampton trade a few years ago, which I had along with the Denver Post and Sun-Sentinel in Fort Lauderdale. We all had it the day before it was announced. Just saying, it happens, and even Braves trades can get leaked beforehand.
By Train Wreck Bystander
July 27, 2006 01:05 AM | Link to this
Absolutely, positively do not trade Betemit.
I can’t believe this is even being seriously contemplated.
But then again, this is the same front office that traded Johnny Estrada for seasoned bullpen help. And we all know how that has worked out.
By serbok
July 27, 2006 01:10 AM | Link to this
its late here~(in the season) after reading the blogs~i have come to the conclusion~that I agree with the majority~it would be stupid~and probably so are we? (for even commenting on rumors?) JS has always done a good job~ I can only see this as positioning~dont be surprised IF no more deals are made~braves stand pat! Cant see letting go of WB
By rob
July 27, 2006 01:13 AM | Link to this
Why would we keep Johnny Estrada? McCann not good enough for you?
Unbelievable. Villreal, the Win Vulture, is a quality reliever and Carmier didn’t pan out, so what. JS does what it takes to hang 14 straight penants in the outfield.
My god, some people just don’t get how good JS and Bobby Cox are.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 01:15 AM | Link to this
There will be no Bait-a-meat trade unless we truly get something awesome in return, and that will likely be a multi-player deal involving several folks. Chill, Y’all. J.S. isn’t a dope.
By CharlotteDave
July 27, 2006 01:15 AM | Link to this
I can see a certain amount of logic to trading Betemit, but they need to get more in return than Scott Proctor, even if Proctor may be a lot better than most of us know. Betemit by the way won’t really be 26 on Friday. That is based on the phony birth records that were used when he signed as an underage player. The Braves payed a big penalty and were banned from scouting the Dominican for six months. He is still 24 years old and won’t turn 25 until November. That is based on a number of sources including some interviews with Dayton Moore in recent years. There is still a lot of information about it that can be found on the Internet. Below is a quote from Dayton Moore that was in the March 2004 issue of Baseball America:
“The number one thing to remember is youth is on his side,” Braves farm director Dayton Moore said. “He will play the whole year at 22. If he were an American, he would have been a college junior last year and would have gone one-one (first round, first overall) in the draft.”
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_Betemit
By Snowball's Chance
July 27, 2006 01:26 AM | Link to this
Robert(Justice Is The Best) I understand your thinking but there are two problems. Chipper, For all his injuries has delivered, plus he has accomadated the team to free up salary space. Plus for every idiot jumping on A rod this guy is an MVP. He is playing out of position. I don’t get to see many live games but I watched A rod in two games in Seattle and he is butter.
By CharlotteDave
July 27, 2006 01:28 AM | Link to this
Sorry about the bad link. The formatting here is unusual, and I haven’t figured it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_Betemit
By Skydawg
July 27, 2006 01:29 AM | Link to this
Plain and simple. This would be a very bad trade. WB is playing lights out and with Chippers health, we need a solid backup who can atleast come close to Chippers production at the plate, especially seeing how many runs the Braves need to score to win (pitching). I do not trust a “late bloomer” having one decent year, mostly since the All-Star break, and giving away a player the caliber of WB.
By Snowball's Chance
July 27, 2006 01:39 AM | Link to this
DOB, Since you are in with the NY guys, Has George Costanza been traded back from Tyson’s Chicken? Maybe the Braves could do a package deal.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 01:45 AM | Link to this
A-Rod may be butter, but he wouldn’t be worth his contract if he was Dom Perrignon and Beluga. What the &$%#@ was anyone thinking when they signed this personality-less, arrogant, non-clutch hitting choad to anything other than an above middle income, shut your mouth and stay out of the spotlight, don’t embarrass yourself and your orginazation and just put up good numbers for a SS kind of deal? Just wondering…
By ROCKBUSTER
July 27, 2006 01:46 AM | Link to this
I HATE TO SEE BETEMIT GO .BUT IF THAT’S WHAT IT TAKE’S TO GET GOOD BULLPEN HELP.THEN I’M ALL FOR IT.GO BRAVES.
By Blake
July 27, 2006 01:49 AM | Link to this
I like the idea of getting Dumpster from the Cubs. Does any one know how much he makes?
By Snowball's Chance
July 27, 2006 01:59 AM | Link to this
Hey, Grinch, how you been? Tell me how you really feel.
By Peter
July 27, 2006 02:04 AM | Link to this
This deal only makes sense in terms of what the Reds paid for relievers in trading Felipe Lopez and Kearns to the Nats.
ie. this is overpaying.
29-year old effective relievers grow on trees.
Good hitting middle infielders who are cheap below arbitration have real value.
Plus why would the Yankees trade away pitching? they need all they can get. This won’t happen.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 02:06 AM | Link to this
A-Rod’s ok. Just feeling like I really need a sandwich and a nap…but I’ll stay up anyway! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-hahhhhh!
By gotigers72
July 27, 2006 02:10 AM | Link to this
I wouldn’t trade a valuable utility player/future everyday player for a mediocre, inconsistent middle reliever. Remember how lights out Reitsma was for a month last year? This guy [Proctor] would have to prove himself for more that a 3 week period for me to trade someone as valuable as Betemit has been for the Braves this season.
By Head Coach
July 27, 2006 02:11 AM | Link to this
David , I’m not going to argue the fact that we do need another veteran arm in the bullpen , however Schuerholz set the bar real high with his Wickman for almost nothing trade( did you know Max Ramirez was an undrafted amateur free agent when Atlanta signed him ? )for a minor league catcher. Betemit deserves the chance to play everyday whether it be with the Braves or elsewhere , its just that Chipper is a walking injury waiting to happen and Betemit has proved capable of backing up at 3B , SS and 2b. I think he is worth more than just a middle reliever and I hope thats the case with this proposed trade.
By Snowball's Chance
July 27, 2006 02:17 AM | Link to this
There have been some great comments for this late on this blog so I am going to attempt to hijack it. I am from Oregon . We don’t get much promo ,other than frickin’ maniacs. Harold Reynolds is from Oregon. He played for Seattle, winning a Gold glove. I appreciated his mostly positive critiques. I have been a fan of John Cruk since he played in San Diego. John is a cool guy. Last week on baseball tonight he was freaking out for many nights in a row. He is a working class guy and saw what was coming down on HR
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 02:18 AM | Link to this
Really, though, is ANYONE worth 25 mill per year, especially as the second best SS on their team? I personally don’t think so, though I have been proven to be falliable (many years before joining this blog).
By Bob, journalist
July 27, 2006 02:23 AM | Link to this
Ike, regardless of any protestations to the contrary, the performance of all the players is impacted by adversity and other external stimuli. However, within the subconscious constraints to which they’re bound, I’m confident that each and every one on the team always gives what he perceives to be his best.
They were trying just as hard, if not harder, on June 22 as on July 26 … you can count on it … and they needed our cheers and support then even more that they do now.
Boo the opposition, boo the umpires … boo the manager when he takes out your favorite pitcher … we’re all disappointed when our boys aren’t playing well but it’s inexcusable to boo a player because he’s struggling and not performing to meet our expectations. They may find it acceptable in Boston, Philadelphia, and New York … but not here in Dixie!
The fact that a person paid the price of admission does not a fan that person make … I don’t know what you call folks who boo our boys but they’re not Braves’ fans in my book … and it doesn’t entitle them to indulge in such boorish behavior.
Adam isn’t the only one who heard the boos … Chris, Frenchy and others heard them too, and not just within the confines of Turner Field. It had to hurt … them and the performance of the team.
When we talk about the number of games lost for different reasons … how many should we assign to boorish fan behavior?
Empathy is not pity. David O’B’s interview with Adam Laroach gives good insights into the extent to which players are impacted by the fans … and if we’re smart, we’ll take heed! You can forget about his talk, Adam’s walking the walk!
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 02:24 AM | Link to this
Snowball, please to explain the grotesque green and yellow uniforms of the ducks. I’m not a hater; I am quite the hunter and naturalist. But, my god, man…
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 02:31 AM | Link to this
Journalist Bob, a signifigant post as always. I am about to make a serious late night night meal of Smithfield country ham, scrambled eggs with home-grown Habaneros and cheese grits. I may not ever return..in fact, I’ll hold off a few minutes!
By Bob, journalist
July 27, 2006 02:34 AM | Link to this
Grinch, I’m not sure what you mean by a “mill” but unless a mill equates to a cow, I would have to agree. Besides, any team that has two members of the SS playing for them should be investigated by old Joe McCarthy and thrown out of the league, regardless of what they were being paid.
By Bob, journalist
July 27, 2006 02:39 AM | Link to this
Grinch, it’s late … I meant to say “any team that has two players pretending to be members of the SS” … as I believe said you.
By Head Coach
July 27, 2006 02:46 AM | Link to this
I just had a crazy thought ! Maybe , just maybe Schuerholz deliberately leaked this trade proposal in the hopes that he could squeeze Dave Roberts and Scott linebrink out of the Padres for Wilson Betemit and a player to be named later ? No , that would would fill all the needs for Atlanta , too good to be true.
By Snowball's Chance
July 27, 2006 02:48 AM | Link to this
Grinch, Phil Knight, the the guy that launched Nike with an idea and a waffle iron is the guy keeping OU in the black.He might be as weird as Tawny Harding and ex Senator Bob Packwood, but he is still selling uniforms. You might have to enroll in the old farts club because we are in the minority.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 02:49 AM | Link to this
Journalist Bob, I initially meant no-one was worth getting 25 million per year to be the second best short stop on their own team, but I must admit the Schutzstaffel has little place on the average American baseball team. And A-Rod is not worth 25 cows, be they milk, meat or just moo-cows.
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 02:53 AM | Link to this
Just smokin’ a victory blunt and listening to Bob Marley… Allright, we jammin…
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 02:53 AM | Link to this
Dark green is for British sports cars, not college athletes! Do I now qualify as an old fart, despite being 32?
By Bob, journalist
July 27, 2006 02:58 AM | Link to this
Since Omar Bradley was a consultant, I assume that Karl Maulden’s line to the effect “Give George a headline and he’s good for another 50 miles” was pretty accurate. I’m somewhat like Patton, the man from whom my son may have inherited his dyslexia … I’m prone to Hoof in Mouth disease, like compliments and have a strong belief system … but being significant would be a new experience!
The late night meal sounds good … the doc says my back should be healed by friday so I’d better be good and get some sleep.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 02:58 AM | Link to this
DonC, that’s what knocked me out last night; good luck with you…
By Snowball's Chance
July 27, 2006 02:59 AM | Link to this
The American public has been fixated on sport star salaries as the average salary for a working class guy has gone down the toilet.
By Head Coach
July 27, 2006 03:08 AM | Link to this
bob , Patton was a genius at war , if he had gotten his wish we would have went to war with the soviets in 1945 and we had the atom bomb , they didnt. Patton would have destroyed the communists and the world would have be a much better place than it is today.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 03:08 AM | Link to this
So, Bob, you believe you could beat Rommel? I love you, my friend, but Patton himself couldn’t have done it without stupid moves by Hitler, good blockading by the British and some sort of divine providence. I’ll shoot you a compliment, though. You’r nose is likely smaller than Malden’s!
By Head Coach
July 27, 2006 03:11 AM | Link to this
Hey . Grinch we won world war II or didnt you know that ?
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 03:12 AM | Link to this
Good point, Head coach; never thought I’d say that. But it’s true.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 03:19 AM | Link to this
Head Coach, I know more about millitary history than you’re ever likely to know, so stick to what you know at least a little something about. If you want to spare the humiliation you’re likely to suffer here, sent you’re comments to voton1066@yahoo.com. I’ll fill in what your teachers obviously missed.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 03:23 AM | Link to this
“Your,” excuse me.
By Snowball's Chance
July 27, 2006 03:26 AM | Link to this
Okay, Grinch, I admit I don’t give a s**t about football, But I would like your help.I have two great players that I hate as announcers. But I only have a clue with Baseball and Basketball. These guys would be ESPN announcers. Bill Walton and Rick Suttcliff. I want to stick these guys in a room until one of their head’s explode. Could you include a football player of equal stature.
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 03:36 AM | Link to this
I was looking at Proctor’s stats, I think I found something interesting… If you look at his overall numbers, they seem to be inflated because of 1 team - The Red Sox. Before tonight’s game, here were Proctors stats overall: 64IP, 28 Earned Runs (3.94ERA). If you look at his outings against the Red Sox, they haven’t been good: 6 2/3IP, 9 Earned Runs. So if you take away the Red Sox, he has pitched 57 1/3 innings with 19 Earned Runs(ERA almost a full run lower at 2.98). So, he has been solid against lesser-teer AL teams, meaning he should be solid against ALL the teams in the national league. But I still worry a little about this trade… JS has already shown he knows little about getting middle relief help (All star catcher for Cormier and Villareal anyone???) So, I don’t know, I could be swayed if I see somewhere that this guy has not had any elbow or shoulder problems in his career. If he’s been healthy his whole career, then I say make the trade.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 03:37 AM | Link to this
Snowball, do you mean you’d like my opinion on ESPN announcers I’d also like to put in a closet ‘till their heads explode, or a football player I’d treat likewise? If the latter, T.O. (or as I prefer to call him, no. 84) would be a perfect example. Or if you mean a football announcer that used to be a player…probably Sean Salisbury as his opinions mean little as he was a middling-at-best backup QB, yet he acts like his opinions mean a great deal. Let me think it over tonight, and when I’m sober tomorrow, I’ll give you a better response
By Bob, journalist
July 27, 2006 03:38 AM | Link to this
Rommel … I read his book! He was evidently a genius and an honorable man … but Hitler, a master politican, wasn’t that stupid … it was his astrologist!
Maulden’s nose was envied by Durante … but, I’m happy to say that his would make three of mine.
Grinch, from what I understand, many college athletes receive British sports cars from their families in recognition for being good students so maybe dark green applies to both.
Coach, forgetting the big bomb … George would have bested Joe … sent him and his comrades to the Infernal Regions and used reformed Nazis to run the evil empire.
That would have been good cause then Harry wouldn’t have had to fire Doug … he would have resigned. But it would have been bad because we wouldn’t have been able to watch McCarthy on television.
Goodnight all.
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 03:41 AM | Link to this
What’s with the WW2 talk? Did WW3 break out in the Middle East or something?
By Snowball's Chance
July 27, 2006 03:43 AM | Link to this
I have hooked up a breathaliser(sic) to my keyboard so I may not make any late night entrees to this blog. If any bloggers that live in Atlanta and would like to have me adapt your system it will only take a coach ticket from Portland,Oregon.I will buy my own Braves ticket.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 03:48 AM | Link to this
DonC, just people checking those they ought not. And yes, WWIII is looking like a possibility. Let’s hope not, so we can all get back to baseball!
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 03:50 AM | Link to this
IMO, Great Britain saved the world from much more death and destruction than there was during WW2… It was the British who held off the mighty German war machine after it had just taken France in a couple of months. England’s resiliency caused Hitler to become impatient and attack Russia(and the 2nd front killed Germany). If Hitler had taken Great Britain in 2-3 months (like he did the rest of Western Europe) the war would have played out alot differently… We’d probably all be speaking German right now…
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 03:51 AM | Link to this
Good night and god bless, Journalist Bob…
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 03:54 AM | Link to this
The only injury info. I’ve found on Proctor:
Jun. 6, 2006 - 9:29 a.m. ET
**X-rays on Scott Proctor’s injured right hand revealed no broken bones.
Proctor punched a door in the clubhouse following Saturday’s game and made the age-old mistake of using his pitching hand. “They need to X-ray my head,” Proctor said. “It was immature. It’s been corrected and it won’t happen again.”**
Source: New York Times
By Snowball's Chance
July 27, 2006 03:57 AM | Link to this
Grinch, It has to be a Hall of Famer that is now an announcer. I am not a big football guy but I would put Terry Bradshaw in there, although he isn’t really an announcer. So, help me.
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 04:01 AM | Link to this
Good point, DonC, but Germany attacked Russia due to a lingering bitterness that the communist party almost won the popular vote in Germany over the Nazis (and the American Nazi party was large enough to make FDR sweat); don’t get me started on Dunkirk and, for that matter, the British influence on the Japanese to drive the Germans out of China during WWI; it could be said the British were responsible ultimately for Pearl Harbor. Yes, I’ll back that up for anyone who wants to argue…
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 04:03 AM | Link to this
X-rays on Scott Proctor’s injured right hand revealed no broken bones.
Proctor punched a door in the clubhouse following Saturday’s game and made the age-old mistake of using his pitching hand. “They need to X-ray my head,” Proctor said. “It was immature. It’s been corrected and it won’t happen again.”
Source: New York Times
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 04:10 AM | Link to this
Snowball, I’m FAR to blitzed (pardon the pun) to give much here tonight, save that Bradshaw is a f%$&*ng moron. I have no idea how he was able to direct an offense, much less give commentary on anythimg other than a sprung leak. What a de@#$%bag. However, he did get the job done on the field. ‘night all!
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 04:11 AM | Link to this
Hitler attacked Russia cuz his giant ego (and aura of German invincibility) took a hit by not being able to take Great Britain. He figured a few quick wins in Russia would repair both…
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 04:18 AM | Link to this
Anyway, It’s ‘bout that time… DOB if you read this in the morning, just answer my question on Proctor about his injury history, dying to know…
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 04:38 AM | Link to this
That’s a plausible wiewpoint, DonC, though the right one is debateable. Goering screwed it all up with his insistance to have the luftwaffe take care of things instead of the navy moving quickly to capitalze…nonetheless they F*&$ed up, so we’re safe. Must snooze now.
By Train Wreck Bystander
July 27, 2006 04:53 AM | Link to this
As for my coments about the Estrada trade: I think McCann has turned out great. That’s not my beef.
It’s what we got for Estrada that scares me. C’mon - we got rooked. Oscar’s not bad, but AZ definitely got the best of us on that trade.
Betemit deserves to play every day, and he’s not gonna get that chance in Atlanta… but please, no lopsided trades just to hang a wild card pennant on the facade.
By Bob, journalist
July 27, 2006 05:24 AM | Link to this
Don C, Es tut mir Leid, das enien Deutsch nicht kannte … ich auch nicht … veleischt nur ein bisschen. Braves geht!
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 05:37 AM | Link to this
Jornalist Bob, I just returned from a country ham, vidailia onion, Grinch-grown tomatoe sandwich with Hellman’s mayo, coarse ground pepper and 12-grain Arnold wheat bread. Yum! You sir, are a pearl among swine! Or should I say Shwienhound. God bless, my friend, and good night!
By Head Coach
July 27, 2006 06:35 AM | Link to this
Grinch , I was joking about the question I asked you and yes I know my history extremely well.
By Kevin
July 27, 2006 06:39 AM | Link to this
Yes when braves traded dye to royals for brett boone n that fellow who was called a monkey by former brave rocker.they were good boone batted 312 for braves in 99 but bobby hated show ups so release n mariners got n u know what he did after. then we got kenny loften he batted 321. cox released cause he played his boom box loud….he gone if we get procter are for what they ask we get a reject who be gone else where ,,,,as for giles who be free agent who hell want a person who swings like Girl!
By Carroll
July 27, 2006 07:17 AM | Link to this
Kevin: get your facts straight. Dye was traded for Tucker (not the “monkey”), and Keith Lockhart. Boone was acquired 2 years later in a trade involving Denny Neagle. Randal Simon (the “monkey”—and that’s not a racial thing…he really did look like a monkey if you think about it…and he wasn’t black), he was brought up in the Braves minor leagues.
By JasonInMaine
July 27, 2006 07:21 AM | Link to this
I was watching the game last night and it showed a guy in the stand that I swore was wearing a shirt that read “DOB’s Son” and holding a sign that said “All I want for my B-Day is Bob Wickman”.
Regards,
Jason
By JasonInMaine
July 27, 2006 07:23 AM | Link to this
Braves and Yanks deal off?
BOMBERS JUST WON’T GAMBLE WITH PROCTOR
Regards,
Jason
By Ted
July 27, 2006 07:26 AM | Link to this
DOB - I really respect your opinion and look forward to reading the blog every day.
That said, since when do the Yankees and their fans have a realistic view of talent? Listen to Yankee fans and they have the best prospects in baseball. Yet who was the last impact player they drafted, much less developed? Names like Duncan, Henson, etc. litter the landscape of “failed” Yankee “prospects”. As such, I honestly don’t care that Yankee insiders think Proctor is good. They also thought Chacon and Ponson could help them, that Jaret Wright, Pavano and numerous others were worth big dollars, etc.
Therefore, as for Proctor, there are plenty of players who finally get a chance in the majors and have “good” seasons. But, again, how many of them have “good” careers? And, after last night, his post-ASB numbers don’t look as good either. He is simply a journeyman having a “decent” season. If you’re 29 and only in your 2nd season, you are NOT a good (by MLB standards) player.
Once again, if we are going to trade WB for a MR, then if the Padres would deal Linebrink for him, make that trade, not Proctor. Players like Proctor are easy to find - not players like Linebrink.
As for the economics, Linebrink would only cost about $400k more than Proctor for the rest of the year.
Lastly, I am not advocating trading WB per se. But someone like Giles is more likely to be dealt after the season (since it is hard to justify trading a “starter” when you are in a playoff push). As such, I can understand dealing him, but ONLY for a player who will help, not a homer-prone journeyman reliever - which is all Proctor is despite what the Yankees “experts” may think.
By JasonInMaine
July 27, 2006 07:26 AM | Link to this
One more article for those interested:
Baseball trade winds
Regards,
Jason
By Jeanine Bartlett
July 27, 2006 07:42 AM | Link to this
Trade Betemit? Heck no! Do we need bullpen help? Most definitely. Solution? Trade Chipper!
By Matt
July 27, 2006 07:47 AM | Link to this
Chipper will NEVER be traded, so don’t even talk about it. Why would they anyway, he’s only been the most consistent guy over the last 10 years when he’s healthy. AND he is still better than Betemit.
By the way, I thought most Dominican players lied and said that they were younger than the other way around in order to get signed at a “young age.” Wouldn’t that then make Betemit about 30. Like Julio Franco.
By JasonInMaine
July 27, 2006 07:49 AM | Link to this
From the Stark Report on Espn Insider:
MARKET REPORT For a guy who isn’t even averaging two at-bats a game, Betemit sure is a hot item on the shelves these days. The Braves and Padres continue to talk about a fascinating deal that would send the 24-year-old Betemit to San Diego for the best set-up arm out there, Scott Linebrink. And the Yankees and Dodgers have also had interest, although the Yankees think they can justify trading reliever Scott Proctor for Betemit now that Octavio Dotel’s journey back from Tommy John surgery has clanked into another pothole. But at the moment, it’s the Braves who are wondering if they can afford to trade their own player. It’s complicated enough that Betemit has ricocheted from Best Prospect in Baseball to What A Bust to Decent Utility Guy to Best Utility Whiz In The League. But now that the Braves are unsure of Chipper Jones’ health, Betemit looks more indispensable by the day — especially when you remember he has a higher slugging percentage (.503) than Jeff Francoeur (.453). So watch those box scores carefully to see if the Chipmeister returns. There’s more riding on his health than just who gets to hit in front of Andruw Jones.
It also goes on to say that the Braves are one of the most likely destinations for Jeff Conine who they attempted to sign in the offseason.
Regards,
Jason
By alan from Atlanta GA.
July 27, 2006 07:49 AM | Link to this
I can’t understand this trade talk of Wilson Betimit to the Yankees. He’s playing much better than Giles who they may not have next year due his probable $5 mil. salary demand. For what? Giles’ average is under 250. He’s a terrible leadoff hitter. Betimit is the future and we’re trading it away for a lost sseason anyway. For what? a shot at the wild card. Get rid of Giles, and while at it also consider firing McDowell at the end of the season. He’s produced the worst bullpen in years. The starters except for Smoltz aren’t much better.
By C Daddy
July 27, 2006 07:56 AM | Link to this
Trade Giles, he is paid too much for having done too little this year and it only gets worst next year. 5 million for what? I wish I could have a sub-par year and expect a 1.5 million dollar raise.
By THL
July 27, 2006 07:59 AM | Link to this
Betemit, when given playing time, has been more consistently good than Giles or LaRoche. I know LaRoache is hot right now but that’s the way of streaky hitters (Giles is kind of in an in-between phase right now). I would trade one of those guys before Wilson unless I was getting some real value for him. I would like to see Betemit in the lineup everyday at 3rd, 2nd, or 1st. Maybe move Chipper to 1st with him playing 3rd would work. That may or may not be feasible. Just so long as they don’t sacrifice the bright future of this young team to continue their playoff streak, I’m ok. Go Braves.
By Jason T
July 27, 2006 08:04 AM | Link to this
BeataMeat for proctor, Please, you can’t be serious, our minor league guys, can’t come up here and step in for Chipper when it’s getting close to play-off time! Trade Giles away if anyone. Bad trade if it goes down. Betemit needs to remain a Brave, he should take over for Giles next year.
By Jason T
July 27, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this
Jeanine, Get a clue would You, do you know anything about Baseball? Chipper is going to be Chipper. As you see he has helped carry the team in July! You people are crazy to want to trade Chipper right now. I know he has foot issues, but the guy is not that old, He’s still got 3 or 4 good years left!
By 1 + 2
July 27, 2006 08:11 AM | Link to this
The bottom line is this folks: 1) Giles will be gone next year. 2) Chipper will play in 81 games (injuries). Do we actually have guys in the farm system that can come up and contribute like WB has? The answer is NO. Why would you actually trade a switch hitting everyday player? Who knows. What sort of numbers could WB generate if he were an everyday player? Think about this one, Adam is finally getting a chance to play everyday at 1st, and he is finally responding (2nd on the team in homers and appears on the brink to become 2nd on the team in RBIs). I believe Wilson will be a legit 25 homer, 80-90 RBI guy (leading off in front of Renteria).
Finally, at the end of this season, I would attempt to trade Chipper to the Rangers. He lives there and it would permit him to DH (he probably won’t get hurt as much). And in return, we can get prospects, plus it will free up salary space.
By Alex
July 27, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this
One word: noooooooo! Anyone catch Proctor’s gem last night? Looked a lot like the guys we already have. Besides, all Betemit has done for the past two years is hit. Can’t say the same for most of our other guys.
By Wink from Lithonia
July 27, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this
Trading Betemit is not a good idea. Do we need pitching help yes. However, this team needs hitters. The Braves have no chance at a division title. They are a long shot for a wild card spot, even with their excellent play of late. They have given up a lot of run, but offense has kept them in games, so they have scored a lot of runs. Betemit is a big reason why they are performing better. The guy has hit with the Jones in the lineup and when they were not. He played any position they have asked him to play. Right now he is a better hitter than Giles. The guy needs playing time and maybe the Yankees will give it to him. We have are putting a team of professional hitters together, the type of hitters you need in postseason play. Maybe we make it, maybe we don’t, I will take my chances with the HITTERS & Wickman.
I hate this trade proposal, kinda reminds me of: the trade of Ron Gant the trade of David Justice the trade of Marquis Grissom the trade of Germain Dye the trade of Ryan Klesko the trade of even Dieon Sanders I could go on…sometimes you have to keep productive POSITION players!!! We need to keep Betemit and ride the season out.
By braveswin
July 27, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this
it seems that this would be a trade just for the sake of making a trade.WB is going to be an everyday player for the next 8 to 10 years why give him up for a cardboard cutout of a major league pitcher who really has had no value to a team whose bullpen (except Rivera) is no better than ours? JS if you’re listening DO NOT DO THIS !!!
By KC
July 27, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this
Hmmmm…. We’d better ba d*mn sure this Proctor guy is for real if we’re gonna swap him for Betemit.
By fay
July 27, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this
Betemit is a future superstar. Ask Renteria. You don’t trade him for a 29 year old reliever who has had half of one good season in the majors. The Braves would regret this stupid deal for many years to come.
By Knockahoma
July 27, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this
How can anyone defend trading a talented player in Betemit for a reliever with a 3.94 ERA and 0-5 in save opportunities?
By Don
July 27, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this
DOB, could you address something I asked about earlier? The question is why the Yankees, who are in the process of burning up their middle relief because of the problems with their starters, are willing to give up such an allegedly highly regarded pitcher for the last 9-10 weeks of the season, plus playoffs, to acquire a player who will address a 2-3 week hole at 2B and then be largely useless to them? This trade makes absolutely no sense for the Yankees unless they don’t really think that highly of Procter. It doesn’t matter if they get Dotel back, with that starting rotation they can’t have enough relief pitching. But they’re going to give one up to have more power at second base for 2-3 weeks?
Also, I don’t see how you can shrug off Procter’s performance last night by saying that Torre pitched him for the 3rd night in a row. That’s why the guy has 64 innings in relief and we’re not even through July. Does he have 2+ months of gas left in the tank, and if he does what’s he going to look like next year after pitching 100 innings in relief?
I don’t understand this apparent conviction in the Braves organization (apparently shared by you) that Betemit is a career utility player and we can just plug in another one and get the same results. I’ll admit I was wrong about LaRoche being a marginal MLB player (particularly now that he’s hitting lefties). What does Betemit need to do to get consideration as a starter? I’d think 10 hits and 10 RBIs in 4 games as a leadoff hitter would have done it, but I guess not.
By tommy
July 27, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this
No trade should involve Beta-mee period. The Braves will regret this. Im going to the mets game tomarrow and i want to go to BATTING PRATICE can someone tell what time the Braves start hitting.
By KC
July 27, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this
DON:
You sir are a real man. You’re one of the only people I’ve seen willing to step up and say “I was wrong about LaRoche”. Most former critics are mysteriously silent, or are yelling “well, where were you when he sucked! I didn’t hear that many people defending him a month ago… You’re just jumping on his bandwagon!” (even though I was defending him a month ago. Anyway, cudos for fessing up.
By Stanford
July 27, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
I agree that this is not a good trade. Proctor leads the ML in innings pitched by a reliever and that does scare me. And last night’s blow-up didn’t help. I didn’t really know much about him before this rumor, and what I’ve learned doesn’t inspire a lot of enthusiasm.
I do think the Braves are right to look for middle relief, and if WB is traded for value, that’s okay with me. They obviously don’t see him as an everyday player. If it’s Giles, or someone else who is traded, that’s okay too. We need pitching.
We’ve seen already what a difference a quality closer makes: 3 9th innings, 1 hit, no runs, 2 saves. Now filter that down to the 8th with a Linebrink, or someone, and look out!
But I’m guessing it’s the Padres who said no on the Linebrink deal, not the Braves.
Like I wrote early on in this blog, the thing that I’m curious about is DOB’s source. He’s not in the habit of writing reprints of NY Post speculations, so this thing must’ve been a pretty strong possibility. Hope it’s cooled down.
By ny post
July 27, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
uly 27, 2006 — ARLINGTON - He doesn’t have Philip Hughes’ future. His past suggests journeyman. But it’s Scott Proctor’s present that has quickly carried him into the rarefied place in the Yankees’ organization: untouchable.
Yesterday, the Yankees were informed by the Braves that a deal for infielder Wilson Betemit wouldn’t get done unless the Yankees included Proctor. Unwilling to remove Proctor from their bullpen, the Yankees run the risk of watching the switch-hitting Betemit, a player many evaluators say has a bright future and one who could help bolster the Yankees’ lineup, land elsewhere.
In discussions with the Phillies about Bobby Abreu and Jon Lieber, the Yankees are also constantly asked about Proctor. That’s where the discussions end.
Of course, Proctor responded to the buzz by allowing four hits and one earned run without recording an out in the eighth inning last night.
“I won’t comment on conversations with other teams concerning our players,” GM Brian Cashman said when asked about he heavy interest in the 29-year-old right-hander, who is cheap ($353,000) and under control (one more option).
So, how did Proctor, who didn’t figure in the plans when spring training started become untouchable? By doing well for the first two months and overcoming a not-so-good June.
“If you are going to experience success, you have to battle back,” Joe Torre said of Proctor.
Proctor says he doesn’t read the papers, but it’s still impossible not to know his name has been in the news. “My family tells me that my name is mentioned,” Proctor said. “It’s ironic because during spring training, I heard I was going to be traded. In this organization, you don’t know what’s going to happen.”
If the Yankees won’t trade him for Betemit or Abreu, it’s hard to believe they will move him for a first baseman. According to several industry sources, the Yankees have let teams know they are looking for a first baseman in the wake of Andy Phillips’ slump and not wanting to play Jason Giambi in the field too much.
Phillips started last night’s game in an 0-for-18 slump and Giambi’s left knee has been acting up.
The best fit is Pittsburgh’s Craig Wilson, who can also play the outfield. After that, it gets dicey. Especially since the Nationals won’t move Nick Johnson and the Indians traded Ben Broussard to the Mariners yesterday.
Other available players who can handle first are Sean Casey, Todd Walker, Phil Nevin, Kevin Millar, Jeff Conine and Travis Lee.
Knowing how the Yankees put a premium on pitching - and adore power arms in the bullpen - it’s not surprising they won’t deal Proctor. However, there is a school of thought that Proctor’s value may never be higher.
By Stanford
July 27, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this
Hey KC, I DID support LaRoche, and Franceour, through the tough times.
On the other hand, I was sure McCann wasn’t ready to be a fulltime catcher (wouldn’t hit well enough!) and that we should’ve kept Estrada, and that Villareal and Reitsma would be great setup men for Devine!!!
By ssiscribe
July 27, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this
A break from packing to chime in on Betemit:
Chipper’s health gives me reason to pause, and I’m not saying that Prado would save the day if he had to play third base for an extended period of time. Obviously, Wilson’s performance this year and last season has been splendid, and he’s been a blessing filling in at third, second and short.
But I say the Braves make the move if they can get a stud setup guy. Proctor’s numbers are great, but he’s pitched an awful, awful lot of innings already and gives us a bunch of dingers. Is Torre trying to burn the guy to the ground? And, with Dotel’s health still in question, I don’t know now if the Yanks will pull the trigger on the deal.
I don’t know if I’d do it for Proctor, although I’ll admit the upswing is pretty good (great stuff, not arbitration eligible). DOB, is the Linebrink deal completely dead yet? Pads were interested at one time.
Proctor? Linebrink? Whoever. It better be a lock-down, eighth-inning type of guy, or else I don’t make the deal. But, if it is a stud who can be as solid as Wickman has so far been in the ninth, at this juncture, pull the trigger, provided there is a third baseman who can be had to fill in if Chipper gets hurt.
Win today and that’s another series. All alone in fourth in the wild card race, 4.5 games back. Need to win today, though, then it’s onto a weekend set with the frontrunners.
By TDub
July 27, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
So the Post article above suggests that Proctor was only part of the deal. If that’s the case, who’s the other part?
By Bob
July 27, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
NO to trading Betemit for Proctor. We’re giving up too much for an unproven talent. Agree Bobby needs to strengthen Bullpen, but this deal isn’t a win-win trade!
By ZB Pike
July 27, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
Cubs are wanting to trade Maddux I read…how about comin home???
By KC
July 27, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this
Stanford:
I always felt that McCann was ready to be an everyday catcher… But who knew he would hit like this??? Sure as h*ll not me!
I’m blown away by what this kid is doing. And something that hasn’t been talked about very much is the way he’s started hitting for power.
McCann’s hit 7 home runs in 17 games in July!
What’s even more amazing is that he flies under the radar. During the all-star game all anyone could talk about was Joe Mauer. In fact, one national baseball writer (can’t remember which one) went so far as to say there wasn’t a clear cut choice for an all-star catcher in the NL! I sent him an email and told him he needed to pull his head out of his _ and look at McCann’s numbers. (He never responded… what a surprise.)
Anyway, certainly Mauer is an incredibly impressive player in his own right, but McCann hits for more power and I seriously doubt that Mauer has anything on McCann defensively or in terms of handling a pitching staff.
It’s been said of Mauer that he is a nearly “perfect” player. Well I’m having difficulty finding the weakness in “Canny’s” game.
McCann has yet to get anything close to the respect he deserves from the national media. But he’ll get it eventually… they won’t have any choice. This kid is going to make everyone notice his play for many years to come.
By Voice Of Reason
July 27, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
From Buster Olney:
“The Padres have been seeking to complete a Scott Linebrink for Betemit swap, but the Braves apparently remain reluctant to deal Betemit. The Yankees may be offering Atlanta bullpen help with Scott Proctor. The Braves, however, would likely rather have Matt Smith or T.J. Beam. Buster Olney writes the Yankees may be seeking to acquire Betemit in an effort to turn him over to the Padres for Linebrink.”
By jamie
July 27, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this
if I heard this right the other night, betemit rhymes with “wait a bit,” which is what johnny schu should do before he does this deal.
By BP
July 27, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this
Bad Move!!!!!!!!We wait for 5 years for Betemit to reach his potential,then trade him for a middle reliver???I think at this point Betemit is slightly ahead of Giles,not counting Giles stays hurt…Next year Giles makes 5 million and Betemit 1/2 million..The Braves always seems to be out of money…I dont think Giles is ten times better than Betemit…And i’m sure we could use the extra 4 1/2 million next year…If JS must have Proctor…Trade GILES and add a Class A prospect to the deal….
By braves fan
July 27, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this
No just no. But HELL NO!!! If you haven’t noticed, the Braves already have plenty of relievers with ERA’s over 4.00 and that’s what Proctor has. Plus he’s old already, I don’t care what his arbitration status is. It was okay to get Wickman, an older guy, because he has specific skills and positive experience as a closer. Proctor isn’t the #1 setup guy in NY. So why should we expect that he’d be THAT guy here? The other thing to consider is what the Yankees intentions are for Wilson Betemit. They want him to fill in for Robinson Cano for a couple of weeks, and then what? A fill in for Sheffield or Matsui for a month? If all the Yankees do is view Betemit as a fill in player, then how can the Braves possibly get full value for him in a trade? I don’t care what Dave O’Brien says, Proctor is not as good as he’s making him out to be. A quick look at Proctor’s career stats (plus the fact he spent 6 seasons in the minors) shows me that he’s not a top tier reliever. And therefore not equal value for a player that is capable of being an everyday player and producing. If a team that sees Betemit as a starter comes to make an offer, then the Braves should listen. Otherwise they should keep their Giles/Chipper insurance policy.
By BP
July 27, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this
Bad Move!!!!!!!!We wait for 5 years for Betemit to reach his potential,then trade him for a middle reliver???I think at this point Betemit is slightly ahead of Giles,not counting Giles stays hurt…Next year Giles makes 5 million and Betemit 1/2 million..The Braves always seems to be out of money…I dont think Giles is ten times better than Betemit…And i’m sure we could use the extra 4 1/2 million next year…If JS must have Proctor…Trade GILES and add a Class A prospect to the deal….
By don
July 27, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this
If Proctor had an up side the Yankees wouldn’t trade him. The Yankees have a history of trading manure for what they need late in the year. The Braves don’t need fertilizer like Proctor and they don’t need to cater to the Yankees like so many teams have done in past years.
Betemit is coming into his own. He should be starting every day.
By jai
July 27, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
If the John S. trades Betemit they will not make the wild card. They can kiss the division good bye but they need Betemit to make the playoffs. Just when I thought they made a good move by getting Wickman. They may turn around and make a dumb azz move by trading Betemit. They need to trade Giles and replace him with Betemit. When Chipper leaves then move Betemit to 3rd. The dude is the furture of the club!!!!!!!!
By braves fan
July 27, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
Oh and the 0-5 in save opportunities doesn’t matter? Are you kidding me? A reliver can be given a blown save in the eighth inning just like the ninth if he blows a lead. So don’t give me some crap about 0-5 not mattering. Even Jorge Sosa with his astronomical ERA was able to convert a couple save opportunities. Oh and Proctor has allowed 9 homeruns this season. That’s not a great stat for a late inning reliever.
By Gilly
July 27, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this
Hi I’m Marcus Giles fo the Atlanta Braves. With all these rumors about me, I purpose that the braves trade myself along with Langerhans and possibly a pitching prospect to the Yankees for Proctor. This would be a win win for both teams as I know the braves won’t offer me arbitration next year and someone will overpay for my services as an FA. This way atleast I can repay the Braves a little for all they’ve done for my career.
By iwalter
July 27, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
I hope JS has the mindset of the vast majority on this board and nixes this Betemit for Procter trade. If the Braves were in the middle of a division race and a lock for the playoffs , maybe you do a desperate deal like this to keep up with the competition, but the Braves will be lucky to make the playoffs as a wildcard so you don’t make a desperate move like this. It amazes me that Langerhans, Orr, Diaz, mediocre at best, are locks to be starters and bench players for the Braves, but a guy who has shown he can play at least 3 positions is tauted to be traded. For those who say they doubt his ability to play 2d base, please tell me what errors the guy made there when he played 2d?
By KC
July 27, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I kind of doubt that we’re going to get offered enough in return for JS to part with Betemit right now.
I am like nearly everyone else here, REEEAAALLLYY reluctant to warm to the idea of trading Betemit right now.
I would feel much better about a deal that would include Giles (though I like Giles a lot).
With the pay raise due him next year, and the poor season he’s had so far… I’m afraid his trade value isn’t anywhere near what it could be for an all-star performer like Giles. Even so, it would seem to me that a team looking for offense at 2B (unless they’re cash strapped) would still be interested in Giles.
The Cubs come to mind, and they certainly have a couple of bullpen hands that we would be interested in.
I would love to see a deal like this:
Marcus Giles, Brian Pena, Travis Smith
to the Cubs for -
Scott Eyre (or even Bob Howry) and Phil Nevin.
Phil Nevin can play 3rd base, 1st, or LF. He’s only a .250 hitter, but he would give us some right-handed pop off the bench, and he won’t affect our payroll (Texas is eating almost his entire salary this season).
The benefit of adding Eyre of Howry is obvious.
Probably won’t happen, but one can dream.
By Bravo44
July 27, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
The only reason you’d make a trade like this is if you’re missing that one piece that could possibly win you a World Series. Even with an upgraded bullpen, is this really WC caliber team? Sacrificing a guy who could be a Braves fixture for next decade for an unproven middle refief guy strikes me as a move made out of foolish pride. Maybe Proctor would be enough to put us over the top and eke out the wild card, keeping our postseason streak alive, but would we really do much once we got there? I’m guessing no. Unless JS is sure we can win a World Championship with one more piece in the bullpen, this is a bad deal.
By dylan
July 27, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
DAVE ROBERTS? really head coach you think this guy is an answer for us. The only question this guy can answer for us is who is the s****y a*s player out in left that cant hit his cap size?
By will
July 27, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this
Proctor is absolutly lights out when he gets a day of rest between appearances. So if the braves do land him, Bobby has to use him SPARINGLY for him to be most effective.
Also, Proctor is not a closer, the 0-5 has to do with several factors:
1)other teams salivating when Rivera is not there at in the ninth—they become more confidnet.
2) as mentioned before, Proctor is not as effective on short rest, which a closer is forced to do.
That’s it!
By The Grinch
July 27, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this
Head Coach, sorry for jumping on you like that earlier; I was drunk and contentious, and still a little irked at you for jumping on Lew like you did right before his operation. Still, you’ve never said anything nasty to me, and you didn’t deserve my comments. I apologize.
By Buddy
July 27, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this
This makes no sense. Has Chipper played a whole season, ever? We need to be looking ahead not for a quick-fix. Pitching is the priority but not if it means giving up Betemit for a questionable reliever and talk to Yankee fan if you don’t think there are questions about Proctor?
By Stuart
July 27, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this
I think this is a M.F.ing Horses* trade. Who give a rip if Betemit is “oversized for second base”. He can hit and he hasn’t shrunk like Giles has in size and average. He is also LOTS cheaper than Giles next year. Take the savings and invest in the pen next year. If Prado is so dang good, trade HIM to New York for some no name reliever. Proctor is no vet, he is Ken Ray in pin stripes at best and BTW people are figuring out the death ray. To be honest if our team had any nads whatsoever we would tell chipper to get his a*s in LF (or sit Giles )and play Betemit at 3B (or 2B) and use Langy for what he is, a 4th outfielder, if you play Chipper in LF. Betemit for Chin Ming Wong is good, or Wong AND Proctor, but not for just Proctor. Thanks JS for making my blood boil this morning. This team STILL needs a bat, (do not let this run of hitting fool you if we get to the playoffs we will get carved up, heck good pitching still carves us up); there are holes in the lineup (LF, many in the pen (to many to count) and at least one in the rotation, (Scott Shiel is not an answer, neither is Thomson or Davies at this point) One reliever at the cost of one of your best bats and offseason trade pieces is not enough to get in this race. We still need in SP and a bigger bat in LF.
By dewan lee
July 27, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
AJK you were right on point if the Yankees need a2B then why not trade Giles to them fotr that sorry releiver. Giles is much more valuable than Proctor also so that is not a wise choice unless we were trying to cut salary. Like I said before the Yankees only have one person in the bullpen that we should consider (MR). Other than Mr. Rivera the rest of the relief sucks especially I so called lsoer from a year ago. If you forget he is and was supposed to be the setup guy.
By 22oz
July 27, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this
Trade Laroche! He’s worthless! He never comes through in the clutch!
Sorry, having flashbacks…….
By braves in 2006
July 27, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this
As my fav gurl would said… H-ll to the no! The forest is over!
Now why would they even be entertaining this offer?
If I was the GM, I would slap myself for even thinking this deal in the first place.
Let start with the facts…
Chipper isnt getting any younger and when he get hurt his recovery time is ridicilously slow. Either father time iscalling him or he need a new trainer?
Betemit has been red hot and he has all star potential..
Now if I need a set up man that bad and we do… I would rather give up shorty giles and one of the minor league catchers for 2 things… RP and and a minor league who rippin it up in the minors…
Arod isnt going anywhere…so whoever is hot in triple a ball for the yankee would be trade to us plus proctor…
in return them yanks would get shorty m. giles and a minor league catcher.
After we win the world series this season
the pithing bullpen is gonna get a major recall… sosa.. virealla…hampton..thomson..ramierz all on the chopping block
sorry hampton get hurt so much that it is wasting money.. give him a buyout of his contract as an injury settlement
i aint got time for softies anymore
it times for the braves to become hardcore true baseball players and not a bunch of spoiled grown men!
JUST WIN AND WE CAN SING QUEEN’S WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!!
Until then.. we will rock you!!
By Tommy
July 27, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this
I don’t like this proposed deal
Betemit is the kind of versatile talent that Bobby Cox loves, and he’s a clutch hitter. With set-up men, it’s hard to know what your going to get.
This deal reeks of desperation, unless it’s a smokescreen…
By I think with a drawl
July 27, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this
Win now, Cry later!!!
By Braves Fan For Life
July 27, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this
Let me understand this WB for a relief pitcher? WB is a 300 hitter; 3 position infielder; been playing 3b better than error plague CJones; can hold his on with our SS; 10 times better than the guy we have at 2b now; hits for power and average. And we want (1) relief pitcher who’s no better than the ones we have out there now. How about this for a trade: Giles and Lagerhan (?) to anybody for anybody.
By JasonInMaine
July 27, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
VOR,
Where did you get that info from Olney?
Regards,
Jason
By Matt
July 27, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
Living in NY I’ve seen a lot of Proctor, and he’s good. Throws hard as hell, good breaking ball. The guy’s no Dan Kolb.
But with that said, giving up Betemit for him is a rotten idea. It’s a panic move that might be excusable this year but will look absolutely awful two years down the road when Betemit is hitting .300+ with 25+ homers a year.
Forget if he’s not a perfect fit for the position, Betemit should be the Braves’ starting 2B next year.
By David
July 27, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
Truth be told—I don’t see a great deal of logic in trading Betemit for a Yankee player or prospect. Betemit is an up and coming talent and he is one of our best players. Why not trade Giles, Chipper and bag of chips for A-Rod. That makes better sense then getting rid of one of your best players. Betemit is one of the main reasons why the Braves have crept back into the wild-card race again and this is the thanks that the Braves show him by trying to send him packing? It almost reminds me of the foolish trades of the past getting rid of Brett Butler and Brook Jacoby for Len Barker—-A COMPLETE BUST; one of the worst trades in any sports history! I repeat once again—for the BETTERMENT OF THE CLUB—PLEASE DONT DISPATCH OF BETEMIT, BECAUSE HE HAS EARNED A STARTING JOB AHEAD OF GILES. I would not let go of Betemit unless A-Rod is coming to Atlanta in return for Betemit. That is the only way that I pull the trigger on that trade.
By KC
July 27, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
Has anyone else noticed that there are only 3 teams ahead of us now for the Wild Card?
So much for that dumb a__ argument that the Braves would have a hard time competing for the Wild Card because there were 8 teams ahead of them. That was such a ridiculous argument when you consider the strength (or lack thereof) of the teams that we (and the 3 that still are) ahead of Atlanta for the WC.
We are 4 games back in the loss column to Cinci, and we’ve got a series coming up against them next weekend.
The other two teams ahead of us (the Giants and the D-Backs) are nothing to worry about.
A week from Monday, we could be atop the Wild Card standings (as long as we keep winning).
I’m just hoping that our competition (the Mets and teams we’re battling for the Wild Card, or may have to see in the post-season) don’t significantly improve themselves before the trade deadline.
By I think with a drawl
July 27, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
What a great experience at the Ted last night. LaRoche is the man! Haven’t had that much fun at a Braves game since ‘93, when Ron Gant hit a game winning grand slam against the Phillies.
Go Braves!
If we trade Wilson, we have to win, it has to work, he’s going to be a star!
but… …in Cox (and JS) I trust.
By die hard braves fan
July 27, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
22oz
are u a fairweather fan?
trade laroche??? whatcha drinking?
oops sorry whatcha smoking?? the same stuff that the oil company exec be using??
did u watch the game last night?
Laroche is the reason why we won last night.. he comes through the clutch… at the rate he hitting HRs he might pass Andruw for this season lol
typical fairweather bandwagon riding fan huh?
By KC
July 27, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this
die hard braves fan:
I think 22oz was joking about the “trade LaRoche” thing.
By die hard braves fan
July 27, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
Arod for Betemit?
Ah no ways!!!
LET Arod stay in NY!!!
BETERMIT IS 1000% better than Arod!!!
Arod got more errors than Chipper and Betemit combined!!!
If we trade Betemit .. kiss the division streak goodbye!!!
we actually got a chance to go all the way this time around!
By KC
July 27, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this
Yeah, we really have to get something substantial in return for Betemit.
Frankly, I don’t think we’ll get what he’s worth. I suspect Betemit will still be in a Braves Uni after the deadline passes.
Anyone like my proposed Cubs trade? Someone get Shuerholz on the phone!
By Don
July 27, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this
Olney’s story makes sense. The Yankees need pitching more than they need a replacement second baseman for 2 weeks. They want to see if they can sucker the Braves by using us as the middle man in a Procter for Linebrink trade. Surely Schuerholz isn’t going to fall for that.
By JR
July 27, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Why would you trade a good player who could be the future at 2nd,3rd,or SS for a maginal 29 year-old set up man? The effectiveness-span of 95% of relievers has to be counted in months. The Braves need to develop for the future and not give away talented players for an absurd dream of doing anything this year. Face it- we only win when we outscore the opponent 10-8, our starters are suspect, our relievers are horrid, our only legitimate reliever has talked mgmt into being a starter. Let’s not monkey with the future. We need to keep Francoeur, McCann, Langerhaus, LaRoche, and Betamit as the nucleus of our next championship team.
By Billy Bob
July 27, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this
Does anyone else find it not just coincidence that the winning streak and offensive poer surge ended the day Betemit was moved out of the leadoff spot and 2B in favor of Giles?
Play Betemit at 2B and bat him leadoff…everyday!
By Don
July 27, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this
No to any trade that includes the washed up windmill Phil Nevin.
And the argument about the difficulty of passing 8 teams for the wild card wasn’t a dumba$$ argument, unless of course you don’t understand anything about math or statistics. It only took the Braves hitting like the 1927 Yankees and having one of the 5 best road trips of the last 15 years to put a nose past a few of those teams. Hats off to you if you called in advance, but I don’t recall it.
Those teams we just edged ahead of didn’t go away. We’re a bad 3-4 game stretch from looking up at them again.
By ernie
July 27, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this
=Bad idea=Proctor has been pitching poorly.One has to suspect arm is tired or worse.Betimit saved Braves during injuries.Giles or Chipper always hurting someplace and his defence and bat desperately needed.Gives Braves much salary room next year.Linebrink only guy worth a trade for him.Pleaseeee!! John don’t blow this.
By ernie
July 27, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this
=Bad idea=Proctor has been pitching poorly.One has to suspect arm is tired or worse.Betimit saved Braves during injuries.Giles or Chipper always hurting someplace and his defence and bat desperately needed.Gives Braves much salary room next year.Linebrink only guy worth a trade for him.Pleaseeee!! John don’t blow this.
By Raydell
July 27, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
What worries me about trading Wils are the aches and pains that plague Chipper. I know Betemit is worthy of full-time play, but as sure as he’s traded, Chipper will go down for the count.
By 22oz
July 27, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
diehard:
its called a sense of humor, go to the store and buy one.
By die hard braves fan
July 27, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this
22oz …u couldnt handle a 40oz? ROFL
i got a sense of humor but when I got to the store, they told me to inform you that your check bounce!
dont be tripping- a-roach is my boy!
By Chuck_Uuga
July 27, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
I wouldn’t expect many “fans” in this town to understand baseball worth a hoot (certainly as reflected by the consistently poor attendance at Braves games). But oh, mention a trade and the experts come out of the woodwork. This deal SUCKS! Betemit needs to play full time, and Giles (and possibly others) needs to be traded. Betemit is a budding superstar, and Giles consistently mediocre (and I’m sick of oft-injured Chipper’s attitude as well). Wonder why we never make it back to the World Series? Because we keep unproven players and trade the real talent to other, better clubs (like the Yankees). Whatever we do Schuerholz, DON’T TRADE BETEMIT!
By 22oz
July 27, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
diehard.
My god you’re lame
By Ted
July 27, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
I don’t often read the comments on the blog, but I can’t understand all the cries for trading Laroche, Giles, Chipper, Langerhans etc. right now.
1) Despite is mental lapse a few months ago, what is wrong with Laroche? Overall, he is a good defensive fielder and while he isn’t a “stud” offensively, at .275, 20 HR and a .893 OPS, he isn’t crap either (and much better than plenty of other ML first basemen). Plus, he’s 26 and still in the “improvement” stage of his career.
2) As for Giles, again, he is most likely to be dealt in the off-season. Teams in a playoff push rarely trade starters, regardless of whether they have a back-up or not. Plus, he has little trade value right now due to his year. The hope is that he plays better the remainder of the year and then you trade him in the off-season when teams are more willing to gamble that this year was a fluke. But now, little chance.
3) As for Chipper, he’s not going anywhere. And he’s not going to the OF (where the constant running would cause him to be injured more often due to his feet issues). He took a paycut to help the team get more talent. And while he may not be a 155 game player anymore, again, there are worse players than him on playoff caliber teams. So while he might still be overpaid (even with the cut) and more injury-prone, facts are, he’s not going anywhere anytime soon (or at least until Eric Campbell is ready, if he makes it).
If there should be complaints against anyone, look at Francoeur. He has an OPS over 150 points lower than Laroche and has regressed in terms of getting on base. A couple of late HR are nice, but I’d rather have him getting on base and scoring in front of Laroche, Langerhans, Diaz, Thorman etc. such that we don’t need late HR to come from behind.
And, again, as for Betemit, I agree he has upside and I would much rather the Braves deal prospects for pitching vs. someone who is needed b/c of the injury issues to Giles and Chipper (and who would be a cheap alternative at 2B in 2007 if Giles is dealt). But if he is dealt, it has to be for a relief stud, not a journeyman (like Proctor).
By KC
July 27, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
Don:
Since you brought it up… yes, I did call it. I was saying this a month ago.
And it didn’t take us performing like the 1927 Yankees. We did it with fleer, but the record was the bottom line. In order to make up this much ground this quickly, we had to go on the kind of tear we’ve been on (14-5 in July), but .630 baseball would have gotten us to the same place eventually. That’s because the fact of the matter is that none of the teams that were ahead of us can play better than .600 ball over a sustained period of time.
I’ve never said that Atlanta had (or has) the WC in the bag. I just said that it was ridiculous to suggest (if the Braves play as they’re capable) that teams like the Rockies, D-Backs, and Brewers were going to pose any problem at all for Atlanta. That’s where that 8 team thing just sounded silly to me. Don, must have always known that the Braves would leave at least half the other teams in the WC race well behind in the dust.
I agree with you that these other teams haven’t gone away. You’re absolutely right in that we are just a bad 3-4 stretch away from falling back to 7th of 8th in the WC standings.
BUT, it’s only a matter of time before most of these teams fall out of sight in our rear view mirror.
Unless of course the Braves are also a mediocre team (and they’re not)… “The too many teams in the way” argument always was and still is a dumb argument when all of the teams standing in your way are .500 ballclubs. Period.
By Joseph
July 27, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
Trading Wilson Betemit is not good for the Braves. We don’t want that to happen. I really wish Bobby could put him in the lineup more. We don’t want to trade a very talented, reliable player for an average reliever. The bullpen has been ugly, and it needs to be improved, but trading Betemit won’t help the team.
By Joseph
July 27, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
Trading Wilson Betemit is not good for the Braves. We don’t want that to happen. I really wish Bobby could put him in the lineup more. We don’t want to trade a very talented, reliable player for an average reliever. The bullpen has been ugly, and it needs to be improved, but trading Betemit won’t help the team.
By S H
July 27, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
ARE THEY CRAZY?BETEMIT’S BEEN ONE OF OUR BEST PLAYERS,EVEN WHEN THE REST OF THE TEAM WAS STRUGGLING ,HE WAS PLAYING GREAT.WE NEED TO KEEP HIM & HE WANTS TO PLAY FOR OUR BRAVES!HE DESERVES A PLACE ON OUR TEAM.
By die hard braves fan
July 27, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this
22oz not as lame as u responding! ROFLROFL
come on 22oz why not be a 40oz instead of a small 22oz..
yeah yeah yeah u say ya was joking.. ok… then stop crying over spilled beer dude!
I swear u must be an undercover Yankees’ fan
The bottom line is this:
IF BRAVES GONNA BE TRADING ANYBODY…
IT IS GILES…look at his nbr for the last 10 games.. but to be fair check his nbr since beginning of June all the way up to this point.
Same for Proctor.
Look at Chipper’s # from June to this point
Look at Wilson’s #
Giles can not LEADOFF because he is not a leadoff hitter
Raffie was our man until he pull a bendict arnold on us. I boo his a$$ whenever he comes home. Traitor!
Sheff too!
As for playing the race card.. please that’s lame as a pile of cow’s dung. Jackie Robinson settled that a long time ago!
The keyword for the day: LAME
IT BE WOULD BE BLANTLANTY LAME FOR THE BRAVES TO TRADE BETEMIT!
IT WOULD BE LAME IF WE DONT WIN THE DIVISION!
IT WOULD BE TRULY ROYALTY LAME IF WE DONT WIN THE WORLD SERIES THIS YEAR! I GOT FIVE ON IT!
WORD TO YA MOTHER!
By KC
July 27, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
DON:
NEED TO CORRECTION MYSELF…
none of the teams that were (and are) ahead of us can play Even close to .600 baseabll over a sustained period of time.
By Ghost of Terrance Moore
July 27, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
The Braves won’t play Betemit more because they hate blacks and Hispanics. That’s why they traded David Justice and Marquis Grissom. That’s why they won’t let Jorge Sosa start. They’re KKK-loving white crackers!!! Barry Bonds is great! I love David Justice! I hope the Braves lose the next 62 games!
By Glass Half Full
July 27, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this
Headcoach had a good point in one of his middle of the night posts. Perhaps the Betemit for Proctor deal is indeed a smokescreen to get the Padres to deal Linebrink.
By Get a Life
July 27, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
Ghost of Terrance You do know that the Brave’s most famous player, Hank Aaron, was black, right.
By Ghost of Terrance Moore
July 27, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this
They only played him because of affirmative action. The gov’mint was pressuring them to play more black folks and to let one break the record of that fat-a*s cracker Babe Ruth.
By Don
July 27, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this
KC, I get it now. It was a given that nobody ahead of us was going to have a very good record for the rest of the season, even with them all playing each other. I take it they’re all going to split the games with each other. And it’s also a given that the Braves can play .650 for half a season, even if the pitching is suspect and even if they’re still sub .500 to this point and even if only one team in baseball is playing over .600 baseball.
Seriously, when you lack any semblance of objectivity and don’t understand basic mathematics, you should avoid calling other people dumba$$es just because they don’t wear rose colored glasses.
By Mets Stink
July 27, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
I agree with everyone else here. Don’t trade Betemit. Everyone says trade Giles, but his trade value is almost nothing now. Someone said this earlier, but I’ll repeat. The hitting surge stopped when Giles returned to the lineup. Let Betemit start at second and Giles be the backup. Try to trade Giles in the offseason, maybe the other GMs will forget his horrible year.
Trade a couple of prospects and maybe Langerhans for a setup guy this weekend, and pray Huddy turns it around.
By Ghost of Terrance Moore
July 27, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
MLB tried to make Hank white. That’s why they called him “Hank.” That’s a cracker name!
By TennesseePaul
July 27, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
As for JS and Trades there have been some ballsy, yet poorly assessed statments.
About this Betemit Trade… I don’t think it’s a good one. I trust JS will get the most value. I doubt Proctor is the most value. Proctor tooled around in the minors forever. Now he’s had a few good months and he’s a late bloomer? Doubt it. On that same note though, WillyB tooled around in the minors until he ran out of options and the Braves had to put him on the roster or lose him. It’s worked out well, but Betemit isn’t the next coming. He will be a great player when he gets an every day job. But he is no Hall of Famer… No Jeff Kent. For one thing, Betemit isn’t a second baseman. It’s that simple. He can play it, but that isn’t his natural position. He was a SS, then a 3B. He’s at 2B because Orr really offers nothing.
In the Braves system, we have Yunal Escobar covering SS and 3rd. He is supposed to be better than Betemit. Better than most people. Also, we have Eric Campbell, who is several years from the Majors. He is projected as the next 3B. By the time Chipper retires, Eric Campbell will be ready to fill in. Who knows, by the time Chipper retires, we could have tons of 3B in the waiting.
Right now, the Braves have a lot of Depth at catcher and middle infielder. We have Tony Pena, Jr. who didn’t really hit, but could field the ball better than I’ve seen in a long, long time. I have a feeling Pena, Jr will be a better hitter than Belliard (career .221). Belliard was on the teams that made it to the WS. He was the defensive substitute. I could see us going back to that if necessary.
Also, I am very pleased with the way LaRoche has played lately. He has turned it up a notch ever since Thorman came up. I think Jordan going down was one thing, but once he saw another lefty 1B, that hit the cover off the ball in the minors, he turned it up to secure his position. Time will tell if he can produce like this on a regular basis. But so far so good. His LaWiffing is going down. LaChoke and LaWiff have been replaced by LaClutch. And LaClutch is a much more exciting player.
Lastly, GO BRAVES!!
By baby seal
July 27, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this
journalist jimmy smith - baby seal is almost there…..had wonderful breakfast of many delicious fresh fish this morning…had to take short nap afterward…baby seal misses jimmy smith…jimmy smith cannot go to NY…baby seal only knows way back to GA home…baby seal would be very unhappy in NY….jimmy smith will be home when baby seal returns, yes? baby seal locate TV this afternoon to watch fillet of fish…journey resumes afterward…
By Mets Stink
July 27, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
According to a Gotham Baseball article, the Yankees want Smoltz. No real information here, but I find it hard to beleive that JS would trade Smoltz. He’s the only starter I have a lot of confidence in.
Here’s the link
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this
I really think we need to stop worrying about this trade. When both teams have reservations about pulling the trigger, the deal usually doesn’t get done. The Yankees desperately need pitching and the Braves desperately need a fill-in for Chipper, so this deal is not going to get made IMO. If anything, JS will make an out of nowhere trade just before the deadline to bring in a veteran lefty for the bullpen. I still argue the Braves would be better off getting another starter instead of a reliever, but, no one listens to me anyway.
By KC
July 27, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
Don:
I didn’t call you a dumb-a__. I didn’t intend to call anyone any names. But I guess in attaching that label to that argument, I was (inadvertently) insulting anyone who held that point of view. My apologies. I didn’t mean to do that. Please don’t take my comments personally, because they weren’t intended that way.
On the flip side… please don’t tell others that they can’t do math just because they interpret it differently.
Here’s my argument in a nutshell.
We are separated from all the competing WC teams by 4 losses or less. That means, the rest of the way, we have to win 4 or 5 more games than the Reds, Giants, D-Backs, Brewers, Astros, Dodgers, Rockies, and a couple other sub-500 teams.
It seems unthinkable to me to say that the Braves are going to have a hard time doing that. I say that not because I’m a Braves fan or “lack objectivity”, but because the Braves are clearly the most talented and experienced team among all that are in the WC hunt.
There may be a team or two that will battle it out with Atlanta in September, and I’ve said that all along. But there’s no way 6,7,or 8 teams are going to do that.
That’s all I’ve been saying. To say that 8 teams were going to present a problem seemed ridiculous to me. Over half of those teams could be credibly dismissed right off the bat.
By Glass Half Full
July 27, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this
Smoltz is going nowhere. More typical Yankee b******t: “thou shalt covet other teams’ players.”
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
I was looking at Proctor’s stats, I think I found something interesting… If you look at his overall numbers, they seem to be inflated because of 1 team - The Red Sox. Before tonight’s game, here were Proctors stats overall: 64IP, 28 Earned Runs (3.94ERA). If you look at his outings against the Red Sox, they haven’t been good: 6 2/3IP, 9 Earned Runs. So if you take away the Red Sox, he has pitched 57 1/3 innings with 19 Earned Runs(ERA almost a full run lower at 2.98). So, he has been solid against lesser-teer AL teams, meaning he should be solid against ALL the teams in the national league. But I still worry a little about this trade… JS has already shown he knows little about getting middle relief help (All star catcher for Cormier and Villareal anyone???) So, I don’t know, I could be swayed if I see somewhere that this guy has not had any elbow or shoulder problems in his career. If he’s been healthy his whole career, then I say make the trade.
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
Jun. 6, 2006 - 9:29 a.m. ET
X-rays on Scott Proctor’s injured right hand revealed no broken bones.
Proctor punched a door in the clubhouse following Saturday’s game and made the age-old mistake of using his pitching hand. “They need to X-ray my head,” Proctor said. “It was immature. It’s been corrected and it won’t happen again.”
Source: New York Times
By Tomas
July 27, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
No way Beitemet should be traded for only Scott proctor, beitemet is much more valuable, Scott Proctor isnt a proved pitcher, and a right hander, plus with all the injuries Beitemet is constantly playing 100 or more games a year. Scott Proctor is like every other pitcher in the braves bulpen exept Wickman.
By Glass Half Full
July 27, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this
Whatever happened to Lisa Turtle from “Saved by the Bell?” Talk about smokin’!
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
DOB Where are you? This blog is overloaded and the game is about to start… Get a new blog going! We need it!
By Tomas
July 27, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this
IF the Yankees want him they should give up Ron Villone, or Mike Myers and pay their salaries.
By Head Coach
July 27, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this
This is turning into the brawl blog from hell. Somebody please post a new blog and subject , please !!!!!!!
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this
What’s with this Shiell guy? Is this honestly the best we can throw out there in a spot start??? There is no one else, I mean the guy had never even started a game in the majors before this year. Not to mention he started the season playing for an independent baseball league… I mean, come on? I’d honestly rather see (and bash me for saying this if you’d like) Cormier or Sosa starting today. But, I guess Cox sees something in this guy. My guess is Cox is planning to convert this guy to middle relief once Thomson comes back, so for now its spot starts for him…
By TennesseePaul
July 27, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
Don: Aggreed on Cormier. He wasn’t that bad. We didn’t score any runs for him, but his games were close. Only 3 runs allowed in his last start.
But anywho. I hope Shiell handles it today.
GO BRAVES
By tvsportscaster
July 27, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
Whatever happened to giving guys a second chance, Shiell has pitched one game with the Braves, threw one bad pitch to Jim Edmonds and you guys think he is the worst pitcher ever. How about giving the guy a break, he’s missed the last two seasons with arm problems. Why don’t we give him at least one more start before we start bitching and moaning.
By TennesseePaul
July 27, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this
Whatever happened to giving guys a second chance
I think Sosa burned that bridge around the 3rd or 4th second chance.
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
DOB NEW BLOG NEW BLOG NEW BLOG!!!
By JasonInMaine
July 27, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What’s up with Chipper? Just being cautious or did he aggravate his injury? I hate when Chipper and McCann are both out of the lineup!
Regards,
Jason
By Ted
July 27, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this
There goes Francoeur - killing yet another rally by swinging at everything.
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this
STRIKEOUT MACHINE’S STRIKE AGAIN!!!
By Stanford
July 27, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
Jason, if you didn’t hear the comment, they say CJ is out because swinging right-handed is still painful. No ‘relapse’ or anything.
By Bob, journalist
July 27, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe that our esteemed journalist Jimmy didn’t try to borrow Coach Madden’s van for his trip so that Baby Seal could have joined him … John likes the Blog as it is a pretty good place to find a few turkeys and would have given his seal of approval; requesting only that it not be messed up with blue slime: “beer is for drinking and worms is for fishin’” and that Jimmy stick to baseball.
Grinch, that may well be the first time I’ve ever been nicely referenced in the same sentence with “swine” … thanks.
It’s been at least 36 years since last writing anything longer than a three word greeting in German … poor construction to be sure but revisiting was as much fun as it was foolish.
Thought we had something going in the first … good to see Wilson in the game!
By KC
July 27, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this
JasoninMaine:
Bobby obviously likes to give his everyday catcher regular days off, and he seems to feel that whenever there’s a left-hander on the mound is a good time to rest McCann.
I don’t like seeing McCann and Chipper out of the lineup at the same time either, but the fact is that McCann’s average against lefties is only .229. So I guess if you are going to give him a day off, that’s probably the time to do it.
Besides, the last time Bobby did this (in Phili), I yelled at the TV, only to see Pratt to come up and hit one in the left-field seats.
By Bob, journalist
July 27, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this
It maybe a gamble but I think we’ve beat the Proctor horse to death … hope they kill any idea of such a trade as well! What’s the next topic on the agenda … the blog is slower than cold molassas.
By KC
July 27, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
Okay, Shiell’s had his second chance… now let’s get him out of there.
By Mets Stink
July 27, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
Figures, second and third with one out and the Braves don’t score. Next inning, Marlins put three on the board….
By geauxbraves2000
July 27, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
The offense better get it gear, probably going to take at least 10 runs for the Braves to win today.
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this
There you go TVsportscaster, there’s your freakin’ second chance… He’s getting Shielled again!!! (shielled, shelled, get it?)
By Stanford
July 27, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
KC, plus, (hot) day game after night game, and a big series coming up. Like you say, probably a good time to give McCann a day off.
Bob, Journalist…shhhhh about the slow load. A few nights ago I clicked over the the ‘postgame’ blog, and AJC was apparently experimenting with a new format, probably to speed things up. You could only see the first few words of each post, and had to click to read. It was obviously flawed, and was a PITA … half the time it linked to old blogs, but unless they’ve got something better than that up their sleeve, maybe we shouldn’t complain about the loading speed. Just ‘fyi’…
By journalist jimmy smith
July 27, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
baby shiell is pitching today and reminds this journalist of baby seal. only baby seal throws with more velocity (flippers). carolina lady, please see that baby seal gets cod liver oil drops when he arrives. hope he will be helpful during his stay there. he is not licensed to drive a tractor but is proficient at small engine repair. now, baseball … this team needs pitching. baby shiell is not the answer. did anyone hear adam laroche say on the radio that there are only two kinds of fans? good, bad? handsome, ugly? smells good, smells bad? smart, not smart? what did adam mean? there are many kinds of journalists as evidenced on this blog. journalist does not wish to be traded to ny. journalist dob, jimmy smith’s mentor will soon win the wurlitzer and journalist jimmy smith must be here for that. and how anout this lineup today? bobby’s keeping those bats on the bench in case we need a few five run homers.
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
This game is going to get very ugly Braves fans, mark my words!!!
By KC
July 27, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
So Scott Proctor punched a door with his pitching hand huh?
Sounds like he needs to start living by the WWJR mantra (What would John Rocker do?)
By journalist jimmy smith
July 27, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
baby shiell is pitching today and reminds this journalist of baby seal. only baby seal throws with more velocity (flippers). carolina lady, please see that baby seal gets cod liver oil drops when he arrives. hope he will be helpful during his stay there. he is not licensed to drive a tractor but is proficient at small engine repair. now, baseball … this team needs pitching. baby shiell is not the answer. did anyone hear adam laroche say on the radio that there are only two kinds of fans? good, bad? handsome, ugly? smells good, smells bad? smart, not smart? what did adam mean? there are many kinds of journalists as evidenced on this blog. journalist does not wish to be traded to ny. journalist dob, jimmy smith’s mentor will soon win the wurlitzer and journalist jimmy smith must be here for that. and how anout this lineup today? bobby’s keeping those bats on the bench in case we need a few five run homers.
By Mets Stink
July 27, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
It’s nice to see that the Braves are on target for another 18 strike out game.
By KC
July 27, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this
Please get me off the Jason Shiell train as quickly as possible!!!
By geauxbraves2000
July 27, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
It already is ugly.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 27, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this
oh, the humanity! journalist’s post went twice to the blog. jimmy smith apologizes to all. journalist’s i.t. man is on the road today.
By Scott E
July 27, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
The Braves held on to Dale Murphy too long because he was Mr. Brave and got 2 balls and a tube of Prep-H form him. Trade CHIPPER while he’s got a recent highlight tape for 4 arms and let Betemit play everday and book trips to the All-Star game for years to come.
By Glass Half Full
July 27, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
Most teams would have made a move for a 5th starter weeks ago what with Davies out until mid to late August and John “The Gimp” Thomson constantly on the DL. I think some of these 5th starter guys lately have won a sweepstakes or something.
By KC
July 27, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
There must be a detup man out there that we won’t have to give up Betemit to get…
Maybe the Brewers would be willing to give Kolb back to us? He’s pitching better this year (5.63 ERA).
By Mets Stink
July 27, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
Shouldn’t a journalist should know when to single-click and when to double-click? I am an IT guy and am constantly dealing with non-journalists and their inability to remember the differences in a single-click, a double-click and a right-click. I’ve never had the pleasure of training a journalist on the anatomy of a click.
By Glass Half Full
July 27, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
Inconsistent starting pitching can partially explain SOME of the bullpen woes.
By KC
July 27, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
Scott E:
Chipper’s not tradable. He’s a 10-5 guy and can veto any trade. Even if he would accept a trade, all of his recent health problems would bring his trade value down considerably.
By supergrass
July 27, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
john “the gimp” thomson=hahahahahahaha
he does seem fragile
By Enquiring Minds
July 27, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
Journalist Jimmy Smith, Enquiring Minds Want to Know: Do seals wear flip-flops? Flip-flops are popular at beaches, boardwalks, blogs, but what about as casual wear for seals?
By KC
July 27, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
Glass Half Full:
True. Chuck James performance the other night was encouraging. Now if we can just get Huddy straightened out and get Kyle Davies healthy (or maybe even J.Thompson)… we’ll be in good shape.
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this
5 Strikeouts through 3 innings thus far… Once again the Braves making a young lefty look like Sandy freakin’ Koufax!
By JasonInMaine
July 27, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this
Why in the heck can we not beat the freakin Marlins lately. Man, losing 2 out of 3 to this squad in between a great road trip and a big series with the Mets is not good. It kind of renders the road trip useless if we get back home and can’t win against the freakin Marlins. Son of a…
Regards,
Jason
By Stanford
July 27, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this
If Shiel can get through 2 more innings (or even 1, really), not a bad start. He’s tough when he keeps the ball down. Just about everything hit off him is when he leaves it up in the zone (must be taking cues from Hudson).
By Glass Half Full
July 27, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this
And let’s be realistic about Davies this season. When he went down his ERA was 6.12 in 40+ innings. Not exactly setting the world on fire. Will he be great one day? I think so, but he’s still very much a “work in progress.”
By DonCoburleone
July 27, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
This games over, I’m done watching… AJ looks horrible at the plate and now we seem to be trying to keep Olsen’s pitch count down… TAKE SOME PITCHES!!!
By JasonInMaine
July 27, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
This will be an absolutely awful loss…just plain awful. If we can’t beat a last place team at home, the chances of winning the wild card are pretty slim.
By Glass Half Full
July 27, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
DOB has posted a new blog.
By David O'Brien
July 27, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
This is the ghost of Hank Williams saying, “Move it on over …” to the new blog I just posted.
By KC
July 27, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
Yeah, what happened the Andruw that turned into a good hitter last year. If you take the first month or two of last season out of the picture last year for Adruw, he hit close to .300 the rest of the way.
This year, he often looks like an easy out again. What the… ????
By AL
July 27, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
ALA Brett Butler for Lynn Cain!!!!
By AL
July 27, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this
ALA ….Brett Butler for Lynn Caine !!!
By AL
July 27, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
ALA ….Brett Butler for Lynn Caine !!!
By AL
July 27, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
ALA ….Brett Butler for Lynn Caine !!!
By Gandyman
July 27, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
Why don’t we trade Adam LaRoche instead? If he went to the Yankees, maybe it would take the pressure off of A-Rod in the BOO department!
By Dennis
July 27, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
Betemit is a star on the rise. Why let him shine on New York. It would make more sense to trade Giles or Chipper. Keep Wilson and use the money saved to get a quality reliever in the off season. This season is a faint hope at best.
By pt
July 27, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this
Don’t trade Wilson, he has done a great job filling in while Chipper deals with his oblique. What happens the next time Chipper gets a hang nail. Wilson is so versatile and inexpensive. What about unloading Giles instead. That’s another $5M.
By Louis Vales
July 27, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
Let me guess, Prado is the next Andy Marte. By all means Braves trade an emerging infielder for a set-up man in a foolish beliefthat you can do something this year. Couldn’t win when you had Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz in their prime but Proctor and Prado—Is that a soap??—willget you over.
By paluka
July 27, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
Giles is practically non-tradedable right now. His offense has not been good at all and he is coming off a thumb injury. No other team is going to be asking for him especially at 5mil per year and up for arbitration.
By iwalterp
July 28, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
Chipper for ARod straight up with Yanks paying half ARod’s salary next year. Pipedream I know.
By will c
July 28, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this
Iwalterp, Chipper is an institution in ATL. We can’t trade him. Last time an Atlanta team traded their superstar, the team imploded. I’m talking about the Hawks trading Dominque for Sorry Danny Manning.
http://www.williamcoit.com
By David
July 28, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this
I would trade Wilson Betemit if I were John Shuerholtz—but that is provided that the Braves would receive in return Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Mariano Riveria and Gary Sheffield in return; otherwise I’d say keep Wilson Betemit and ship Giles out on the midnight train to Georgia and stop ruining our roster getting rid of our best prospects. Has anyone ever heard of Jermaine Dye? He was only the World Series MVP last year for the Chicago WhiteSox and he used to be our property! Stop making fools of yourself (the braintrusts in the front office) and lets keep our blue chip prospects for our own club so that we can continue our string of winning division championships every year.