Braves

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

What about those 2 trades that were supposed to happen between Wednesday and Friday? It’s wrong to give a condemned man hope.

By Postal Joe

June 15, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

What can anyone expect with the AOL mindset of sitting back and watching the value fall out of your ASSets.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

The trading Hudson and Renteria talk is foolish. The braves have Rent for 2 more years at a bargain price and Hudson until 2009.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

Maybe not winning the division will actually help the team get back that fire they lost sometime about 1999. For too long a playoff berth has been assumed and taken for granted.

By geauxbraves2000

June 15, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

I know the team is at fault for it’s lack luster play and for all the strikeouts especially with runners in scoring position,but most of all I blame:

1) JS for not shoring up the bullpen in the offseason, including obtaining a closer.

2) BC for continuing, night after night after night after night, etc, continuing to play that same dead lineup night after night after night after night, etc, for playing BJ with LaR should be playing, for the lefty/rightie thing that he thinks he has to do no matter what the stats say; basically for not being flexible (stubborn)

By eric the elder

June 15, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know whether there is a limit to how many coaches a team can have? The reason I ask is that I was dumbfounded when we signed Pratt, allegedly to mentor McCann. Isn’t mentoring what coaches are supposed to do? I wondered why we didn’t go with McCann and Pena and bring Eddie Perez up as a coach to mentor both of them. Instead, we have a truly worthless player taking up a roster spot and kllling any rallies that might begin in the middle of the lineup. If we already have all the coaches we are allowed to have, then that might explain it.

By JasonInMaine

June 15, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Glass Half Full,

What two trades are you talking about?

Jason

By 22oz

June 15, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

I watched the behind the scenes interview with Terry Pendleton last night on FSN. Maybe instead of telling Francoeur to tell Andruw to hit it to right field, Terry should hit Andruw with an opposite-field- type swing til he listens. Bottom line-someone needs to start smacking people around til they get out of this ho-hum attitude. Remlinger may be wrong thinking it was chippers’ fault, but at least people are getting p**.

By eric the elder

June 15, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Jason, Glass is talking about trades that “insider guy” almost guaranteed were in the works. (I still think that “insider guy” is really DOB, who feels he can’t post in his own name on a Curtright blog.)

By 22oz

June 15, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

One more thing, we can blame Bobby for Laroche looking so helpless against that lefty last night, because Laroche will never be comfortable against them in a Braves uniform. Not when the law of the land is the platoon.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Oh, some dude said last night on one of the blogs that he had it on “good authority” that there would be 2 trades by Friday, one involving Giles. One deal would supposedly bring some arms, the other would bring a bat. He might have just been blowing smoke.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

you beat me to the punch, Eric

By Q

June 15, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

Try this: ( “and now leading off the 2006 World Series, Braves’ 2nd basemen/left feilder”)

Al-Fon-So So-Ri-A-No!!!

By JasonInMaine

June 15, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

Eric and Glass,

Ok, thanks. I must have missed the post you guys are referring to. So, as far as we know, nothing substantial to the rumors? Too bad Giles value is low! I would still love to see Carl Crawford in a Braves uniform, but at this point; it may not be worth mortaging the future.

Jason

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

Alot of times, though “good authority” means google.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

Well, Crawford is only what, 25? He could be part of the future, but only if Atlanta could re-sign him for more than one season.

By Blake

June 15, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

He is already signed for 3 years I think

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

Even better, Blake. In 3 years, hopefully cody johnson or some other prospect will be ready to take over.

By The Mad Hungarian

June 15, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

Guy, I’m not buying. Sure their seasons aren’t their best, but I’m not blaming Chipper and Andruw for this mess. Nor am I blaming Hudson and Smoltz and their 10-9 record - you know as well as I do that if we were not making errors and our bullpen was working, then those numbers would be much higher. Look at Beckett - his ERA is 5.26 and he’s got 7 friggin’ wins with his lineup…

Also: If we’re dumb enough to trade anyone for Soriano - I hope we’re not - then I’ll eat my Braves hats and never buy another.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

Waste of prospects to get Soriano for 3 months. He’ll be WAAAY to expensive in the offseason for teams not in New York, Boston, or L.A.

By JasonInMaine

June 15, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

From ESPN insider blog with Buster Olney:

“Left fielder Carl Crawford. He is the most popular player in the rumor mill now, connected with the Dodgers, the Rockies and other teams. A Tampa Bay official says the Rays haven’t yet engaged in any serious talks for Crawford, but what’s not to like? He’s an impact player, he’s young and he’s signed to a long-term contract. The Rays would trade him if they are overwhelmed by an offer, but short of that, he’ll stay.”

Jason

By Blake

June 15, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Stupid to trade for Soriano, We could get Huff pretty cheap. Plays LF and 1B

By JasonInMaine

June 15, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

I also keep hearing that Salty is untouchable. While I am sure he has great potential and is a local product, I don’t get it. McCann is not going anywhere, and they have yet to try Salty at a different position. I would include him as the top prospect as part of any deal for a Crawford, Willis, etc.

Jason

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Jason. Overwhelmed? What would we need to overwhelm them? I hope no one seriously suggests Orr, Jordan, Pratt, or Reitsma.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

I’ll be happy with any OFFENSIVE upgrade in left field.

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

JS is fiddling while his team is going down in flames and Bobby sits there picking his nose and putting the same collection of stiffs our there every night. No one will shake things up. A deadly combination.

By Austin

June 15, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

Hvae their be any names that the Braves have been runored to trade for.

By Ace

June 15, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

If the Braves could snag Carl Crawford they should do it yesterday. Package Langerhans and Giles for him. Maybe a pitcher too.

By JasonInMaine

June 15, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

Glass,

Good question. They don’t need Giles as they have Cantu. Who would want LaRoche? Chipper isn’t going to be traded. I wonder if they would take a deal involving prospect, and if so; if two top prospects and a middle prospect would be close? We seem to have a lot of prospects at C and SS, but they have Upton that will most likely be moved to SS as soon as they trade Lugo.

Jason

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Half Glass…You are right about LF. Aren’t the corner outfield spots supposed to be production spots?

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Inside guy mentioned Shea Hillenbrand for Giles yesterday.

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Half Glass…Every day I come to this sight expecting to read about a deal and all we see is that Reeksma goes on DL with a bogus injury. Unreal.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Langerhans is a good 4th outfielder…that’s all. If he’s around next year, can Matt Diaz platoon at 1st? Surely, the Braves won’t keep Jordan after this year.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Very frustrating, Jimbo. I’m here for the same reason.

By Jamie

June 15, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Is it just me or has Chipper size changed? It just doesn’t look like the he has the power that he had! I also think he doesn’t have the fire he once had either. Unless things change he finally gone to get that none champion feeling.

By Bill H

June 15, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

The whole team is to blame. Past teams have came through in the tight spots but this current team will not. I think BC is loosing it. Still do not know why Brian J is starting and even on the team. My son has more bat speed than him. He brings in Wilson B to pinch hit for Pratt while Brian Mc (who leads the league in hitting) sits on the bench. He will not go away from the lefty/righty matchup no matter what. Bad throw from Rem but it seems Chipper could have made a better effort. He was probably out of line but maybe Rem stepping up and saying something will wake everyone up. It seems that everyone else is too scared to speak out. Only hope now is to finish with a good record and hope it carries over to next year. Probably need to unload one, maybe two of the big contract eaters before we think about adding any big names to the team.

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Half…BJ shouldn’t finish the seasdon this year. I agree Langer would be a good 4th OFer. Great defense no stick.

What is so strange is that there appears to be a couple of guys who should be taking ground ball at 1st. Betemit? Chipper? Salty in the minors? Anyone. This may sound ridiculous but I would even tolerate McCann at 1st. I know he is a terrific hitter but we all know what a toll catching takes on a player. I would love to have his sweet swing in the lineup every day. I passionately dislike the way the Roach plays the game. I would love to play against him and that big long swing.

By JasonInMaine

June 15, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t mind trading Giles. I like him, but if we can get something in return…I just don’t know if a platoon guy is what we should be after for a former all-star. Of course, we got two absolutely atrocious pitchers for a former all-star catcher.

Also, Bobby personally went to see JS about NOT including Giles in the Hudson trade. If they weren’t going to include him for a supposed ace, would they for a part-timer? I know Giles hasn’t been good this year, but Bobby still loves him.

Trade Hudson to one of the big-market teams for some good, quality arms!

Jason

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Bobby has gone on record saying he doesn’t like the idea of Betemit at 1st…however, he played at 2nd the other day (for the 3rd time in his career).

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Jamie…its pretty evident what you are getting at…I never thought that was possible but who knows…maybe thats the reason for Chipper’s power outage. How about Giles too. All of a sudden he’s got warning track power. Nothing would surprise me in this day and age of Balco Barry. The only one who probably isnt on it is Andruw…he’s just naturally fat.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

When we got Hudson we didn’t really have anyone to play 2nd base except Nick Green (before he was traded) and Pete Orr. Things are different now and Giles will be doubling his salary after this year and I don’t think Atlanta can afford to keep him with our bullpen woes.

By JOHN B.

June 15, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

The Braves biggest problem besides the bullpen (obviously) is that nobody can do execute the fundamentals. Moving guys over, bunting, ect. Jones, Jones, Giles, Francoeur, LaRoche, Pratt, Langerhans, none of them. Renteria usually does, but even he has made some key mistakes. And McCann has been great. But if TP does not start teaching patience at the plate and bunting, this team will never win. The team’s plate discipline is horrible. I can not believe nobody in the Braves front office sees this!! Francoeur has 4 walks..4!!! That is dreadfull.

I’m not sure what the numbers are, but I would guess that the Braves hitters are close to last in taking walks and close to first in striking out.

And trading for Soriano or Hillenbrand is not the answer. Neither one knows how to take a walk. Granted, they are both are good hitters, but they are not disiplined hitters. Even Crawford doesn’t walk a whole lot, but he is young and keeps improving. SO I would be in favor of acquiring Crawford.

And Cox keeps playing Pratt, Reitsma and Jordan because they are vets. Well, I’m sorry, but all 3 suck so it’s time to remove them from the team. At least Reitsma finally went on the disabled list. I don’t care if he faked the injuery, at least he won’t be picthing again for the Braves.

Of course, it would not surprise me if all 3 are back next year. That’s because Cox is TOO DAMN loyal! He’s so loyal, he’s blind.

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

I agree on Giles. Time for him to move on. He’s not worth what he will be asking. San Diego would be a great place for him and as I recall they have a strong pen. I’ve always liked Linebrink.

By JOHN B.

June 15, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Jimbo,

Giles to SD for some bullpen help is a good idea. I think Betimit could handle second and play solid defense. He’s a better hitter as well.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

Family reunion in San Diego, too.

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

I love the “Donkey in the Dugout” phrase coined by a blogger. I’ve always been a Bobby guy but this year his performance has been awful. He admitted he needed to get Betemit’s bat in the lineup but how many games has he started him since he made that startement. Answer: ZERO

By braves fan

June 15, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

I have to take exception to the comments that Andruw Jones “is not the offensive force he was last year.” Not true at all. In fact, if you bothered to do any statistical research, you’d know that Andruw Jones is better than he was on this date last season. He’s hitting 20 points higher and has 17 more rbi’s than he did a year ago. Then he took off down the stretch. It just seems that he’s not doing much because it’s framed in the context of the team losing. Right now the Braves are losing games because of two things. They strikeout way too much. The simple act of flying out or grounding out has a huge effect on how games play out. The Braves get guys on but unless they get 4 hits in a row, they aren’t putting many runs on the board. If they got the ball in play more, rather than striking out, more runners would be in a position to score without getting several hits in a row. The other problem is the awful bullpen. Nothing is more demoralizing than playing a good game for 8 innings only to have one or two guys come in and throw 10 pitches and lose the game. I’m a fan of Ken Ray, but truth be told he shouldn’t be the best reliever we have, but he is. He’s been a nice story, but he should simply be a nice compliment to the bullpen, instead of its savior. Wholesale changes need to be made NOW. Trade, callup, clone one in the basement, just do something. I keep watching the transaction wire hoping to see movement but unless its a DL transaction, there’s nada happening. Chuck James should be making tonight’s start, not Sosa. Thomson as a veteran pitcher, has had success and I believe can be turned around, as evidenced by last night’s start. But Sosa was a one year wonder, who has potential as a reliever, but is too inconsistent to be over exposed as he is starting. I think if James is added to the rotation, and the Braves can get back to back to back solid starts from Smoltz, Hudson, James and/or Ramirez, they can stop the slide. They need to stop watching the standings, that isn’t going to help. Just win one game at a time and let the chips fall where they may. The race is not in their hands anymore. All they can do is change the direction they’re going in.

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

We need Giles to get hot to improve his value, but the downside of that is if he does Bobby and JS will want to keep him. Did you see him last night? He even uppercutted a bunt. Any other 1st baseman besides Helms and of course BJ would have turned it into a double play.

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Braves fan….One question. How does Andruw hit in the clutch?

By Paul Hamilton

June 15, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

I keep hearing everyone ripping on JS. While I do totally agree he dropped the ball in the offseason by not getting some quality bullpen arms, DO’brien already said that other teams know that the braves desperately need help and are trying to take advantage of it. Overpaying for anyone other than a major player is totally stupid. Please JS, ignore everyone and only make a trade if it is a solid trade, lets not go crazy overpaying for other teams trash. It might actually do this team some good by having a losing season and trading off a few of our own players. Lets face it this team will need a herculean effort, after making some solid trades, to just win the wildcard. I really believe the sale of the team is also effecting our players performance. If we can get a QUALITY bullpen guy, closer, or starter then I’m all for it, otherwise I think we should play out the season, hopefully sell the team, and JS needs to reevaluate the entire team and coaching staff at the end of the season. I’m not saying to clean house, but the organization needs to regain that fire and drive to be the best! Maybe fans will respond as well.

By Bob, journalist

June 15, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Guy, “The Braves bullpen is worse than bad — it’s horrible”, is to be expected from bloggers when things are going bad … but, it’s seems strange coming you … stranger still that that there is no mention of Bobby, Terry, or Roger. Well, maybe not so strange.

By Jim

June 15, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

If Thorman is not up replacing Jordan by Friday I will throw the remote at the TV. A lefty can strike out and hit into dps against a lefty as well as Jordan can. If nothing else it would put LaRoache on notice that there is competition for his job — not just an occaisonal platoon guy — on the roster and inspire each of them to compete for the full-time job.

I can’t be optimistic about any potential trades short of trading Hudson or Andruw for prospects. The minor league system is pretty depleted at the upper levels and trading away minor league talent to get a mediocre vet like a Huff or a Taveras will only delay the time before we return to respectability. We have to evaluate the team properly — This team, even with a few additions is not going to contend this year, and with the talent on hand and what is in the pipeline we do not have the players to contend with the Dodgers, D-Backs and Mets in the near future. We need to build around Francouer and McCann with young players who will mature together a la 1991.

By brad webb

June 15, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

if you ain’t broke fix it.

chipper restructured his contract, there is money. it needs to be spent.

also, bobby- mix up the lineup. for god’s sake, take giles out of the 1 hole.

chipper is not a #3 hitter now. mccann is hot. diaz is hot. try them there.

By fnreitsma

June 15, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Paul - well stated. I totally agree.

I believe we need to make moves, but I dont want us to make moves just to make moves. If that means we dont make the playoffs…fine. Great, even!

But even talking about trading Chipper, Hudson, or Renteria is just stupid. I love Giles, but he just isn’t a leadoff hitter. Move his a* down in the lineup, get a leadoff hitter who can play LF. Crawford would be nice…but let’s not give up the farm system for him.

By T Robb

June 15, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Paul, there are plenty of examples of overpaying in a trade that make sense if the need you have gets filled. Now, that doesn’t mean you run around doing Broglio-for-Brock and Pappas-for-FRobinson deals, but if a few million more had gotten us Farnsworth or Hoffman, or Salty would have gotten us Baez, we should’ve done the deal.

Prospects are capital to spend; and can’t-miss prospects often do. Anybody think Marte (.261-6-21, OPS .733 in Buffalo) for Renteria was a bad deal now?

This organization is $6m under budget and has prospects coveted by others. Deal, John.

By TennesseePaul

June 15, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

The short of it is, any and every manager in the league playing against the Braves can make one simple move which immediately weakens this team on all fronts. All they must do is pitch a left hander. That’s it. Toss a lefty out there at the Braves and Bobby’s grand plan calls for benching the league batting leader. Benching the only first baseman on the team and removing a solid defender in left.
I have my issues with both Langerhans and LaRoche, but come on. Those two are by far the best defenders at their respective posts. And McCann, the #5 hitter is getting benched soully because of the opposing pitcher. I’m sorry Bobby, but at this point in the season, with things as bad as they are, maybe you shouldn’t bench the best hitter on the team.

Thorman must come up. We’re losing right now. No reason we shouldn’t bring up more rookies and check them out. If no team wants to trade with us, or is only desiring franchise parts… well… If you no help me now, I say fck you Jobu. I do it my self.*

By Adam

June 15, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

I agree with Jim - much as I’d like to see us even make a run at the wild card, the truth is that we just have too many holes. Trading Giles for a mid-level prospect or 2 is a good idea. We probably ought to trade Smoltz and Andruw as well, because they’d bring us a lot in return. The Braves should focus on being dominant again in about 2008, by which time both Smoltz and Andruw will be gone anyway. Might as well get everything we can for ‘em now. Hudson is signed through 2009, and Renteria through 2008, so I’d keep them, and Chipper has a no-trade clause and doesn’t want to leave Atl. so he’s probably staying too. But the other “vets” (Rameriez, Laroche, Giles, Smotlz and Andruw should be used to build for the future.

By Carroll

June 15, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

I don’t think that right now we could trade anyone on our team not named McCann or Renteria for a bucket of warm spit. So I can’t fault JS for not making a move. I sure as hell don’t want a stupid Giles-for Hillenbrand trade just for the sake of making a move….that reeks of Todd Hollandsworth! I want McGriff!(metaphorically speaking, of course)

By Brent

June 15, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

Here’s my question:

Is there a Wilson-related reason why Bobby will not start Betemit?

By inside guy

June 15, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

don’t worry Braves fans. the 2 deals I was referring to yesterday are still in the works. giles will not play in the red sox series, because he’ll be traded by the time they take BP tomorrow. another name who may be traded is jorge sosa; but only if he has a at least a decent start tonight.

By TennesseePaul

June 15, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

Even with Giles’ struggles, I just can’t believe every team out there wouldn’t want him, if in fact they could use a career .300 hitter playing 2B. Giles is doing horrible right now, no doubt, but unlike LaRoche, who has always been average to below, or Langerhans, who is only in his second season, Giles has a good career under his belt. He’s not a free agent until 2008, he has a lot of upside and he’s fairly cheap. Billy Bean has coveted Giles for a long time. I’m sure we could get something better than a bench platoon player.

By Bob, journalist

June 15, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Elder Eric, you could be right about a DOB alternate identity … but his has previously posted on a “Guy” Blog.

Looking at a tape of last night’s game it looks like Mike had a definite point regarding Chipper’s effort … too bad that Chipper wasn’t around to respond … it would be interesting to hear his “spin”.

By BMan350

June 15, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

Folks, I’m sure the pending sale of the team has management’s hands tied right now. Also, it’s the middle of June. Major trades rarely happen before the All-Star break. People want a third baseman so bad…..what about Sean Casey. He’s with the Pirates, is affordable, a great person, plays solid defense and doesn’t strike out very much. Any thoughts?

By TennesseePaul

June 15, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

This should start the player only meeting and a Cox tantrum meeting. I’m not sure why it has taken this long. Something big is going to happen. it must.
James is ready. Thomson just had a good start. Giles must still have value, despite his performance. Something must be on the horizon. It has to be.

By BMan350

June 15, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

correction….first baseman

By ernesto

June 15, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

A few losses are the players fault, a big string of them starts pointing to the manager. BC should be shaking things up and he’s not. He’ s making hte smae moves night after night, no matter how many times they are unsuccessful.

By Silver Lining

June 15, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

The doom & gloom is legit, but look on the bright side: if the team remains mediocre for a while, at least we won’t have to deal with fair weather “fans” & all the other idiots who only associate with the Braves because of their consistent winning-reputation. Good riddance!

By Jim

June 15, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

The only reason for not starting WB the last few games is that they are showcasing Giles.

I am not that eager to see Sosa traded just to get rid of him, He is one of the few pitchers on the staff with a power arm and decent stuff that he needs to locate better. He may be better utilized in middle relief, and with his record this year we probably can’t get equal value in return. I agree with the need to trade Giles, but let’s realize WB is not really a 2B man, and 2B is our weakest position in the minors (I don’t think Prado is an answer), but if we can get any value in return, we should make that trade.

By The Mad Hungarian

June 15, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

My thoughts on tradeable resources (not including minor leagues):

LaRoche (arguable) Giles (arguable, though his projected salary next year may require it) Langerhans (though I really like him as #4 outfielder) Diaz Sosa Thomson H. Ramirez Anyone in the bullpen except maybe McBride and the new Aussie

Non-Tradeable Without Consent Smoltz (10-5) C. Jones (10-5)

Shouldn’t Trade Hudson A. Jones Frenchy McCann Renteria C. James Davies (?)

Your thoughts?

By I think with a drawl

June 15, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

What’s wrong with Soriano?

He’s explosive, he’s a top 3 leadoff man, and he can play almost anywhere? You all are looking for Mr. Right, but this is a business, and the Braves need Mr. Right Friggin’ Now!

That guy, with a decent pitching addition, would put the Tomahawk chop on newscasts world wide in October!

-How’s the downtown connector lookiing?

By The Mad Hungarian

June 15, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

One additional thought - this is on ESPN.com’s Baseball homepage right now: “Gary Matthews Jr.’s .395 OBP is third among all leadoff hitters.”

Can you imagine if we hadn’t dropped him last year and kept Mondesi (!) on the roster instead?

By Jim

June 15, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

drawl,

Who would you trade for Soriano? (Remember you would have to outbid a number of contenders)? If you were the Nats, who on the Braves (or in the Braves system — and remember Salty is hitting 216 at AA) would you want in return? And how would you sign him for the longer term?

And let’s face it — even trading for Albert Pujols wouldn’t put us on TV in October. The Mets have a very good team, and, even if we add a big name player, we do not.

By I think with a drawl

June 15, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

True, but give 23 hr’s in the leadoff spot every and any day of the week…

…Somebody get Bobby or John on line 1, it’s a call from the Nationals…

By No More Silver Linings

June 15, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

The Mad Hungarian just broke my heart.

By Chop Chop

June 15, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Why would the Nats trade Soriano to a team that is a half-game ahead of them in the standings?

That’s the reality right now for the Braves.

By Outsider guy

June 15, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

This insider guy is full of shyt!….there is no mention of any trade involving the Braves on any MLB site!….insider guy must have his head stuffed inside somebodies jockstrap!!

By Lew

June 15, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Mad Hungarian, Andruw is 10-5 also. As a 30 year Braves fan, the thing that really confuses me is BC sticking to the same lineup every night. Last week he says Betemit needs more playing time, puts him in one game, he goes 3-4 with 2 doubles and that’s it. He doesn’t play again except to PH. Did he do something to PO BC? Something has to be done to shake things up. Nothing as drastic as a firesale (which with the 10-5 guys wouldn’t work anyway), but sit some people for a few games. Move people around- ANYTHING- at this point no change could be worse than the staus quo. I ususally try not to second gues BC, but when he says today that the team has really been playing ok-that they were in most of the games-I really have to wonder. The team has the talent to push the Mets, but it needs to start soon. Where’s Crimedog with his gas can when you really need him?

By The Mad Hungarian

June 15, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the clarification Lew, I keep forgetting Andruw has been around for 10 years - holy cow, time flies.

By Lew

June 15, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah. LeTwan, does Mama have any kind of pie to turn around losing streaks and boneheaded play?

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

JS is usually tip-lipped about trades, and Rosenthal doesn’t know much more than the average sceen sucker.

By The Captain

June 15, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

Outsider Guy, it’s possible that Insider Guy is right. I may just be desperate for something to happen and I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. But when the Braves traded for Farnsworth last year that wasn’t on any MLB site at all. It totally caught the press by surprise. Now the difference here is that if Giles is in fact going to be traded, that’s something that would probably leak out. Though there was that blurb from mlbtraderumors.com that someone posted. So let’s hope Insider Guy is right and not yanking us around.

By Voice of Reason

June 15, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

It should be pointed out that Chuck James is pitching on the same rotation schedule as John Thomson. Coincidence? And, Thommy had a decent outing last night. Perhaps he would have been traded already if he hadn’t strung together a few bad outings…

By I think with a drawl

June 15, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

Flashback to July 1991, correct me please if I’m wrong, but we were 11 to 13 games back, with no history of winning or competing, no proven players, unproven management, and went to the World Series and almost proved we were the best team in Baseball. The 2006 season is all about faith, and momentum. We will, with a good trade, pick it up. We will overtake the mets, just like we did the Dodgers. We run the NL East and everybody knows it. A champion is a champion because of the habits they have formed. 14 in a row, will turn into 15 in a row, and 16 in a row. In Bobby I trust. In Chipper I trust, In Smoltz I trust, and In Andruw I trust.

Come on everybody, for old times sake…

…OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…

By Randy

June 15, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

This is starting to feel like the twilight zone. What I want to know is where is Schuerholz during all of this? Another man to blame is Cox, I know he likes to give his players the most opportunities to prove themselves…but do we really have time? I can very easily live without LaDuche and Giles, Thorman would be a better upgrade at first. We need a trade…and fast!

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

Deion Sanders takes credit for the whole tomahawk chop thing and the chant because he went to FSU

By Chop Chop

June 15, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Now that Thomson has blisters on his fingers, he’ll probably miss a start or two, so he can’t be traded. Pinky is a master of the art of self-preservation. I tip my dripping cap to him.

Of course, Pinky’s latest health concern does open up a spot for Chuck James to make at least one start. Odds are that he’ll get shelled and the people who thought he was the answer will bang their heads against walls, but he should certainly get the chance to replace Thomson.

By Pantherssuck

June 15, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

What good would 1/2 season of Soriano do? You do know he is a free agent after the season and would NOT re-sign. So you mortgage most of your future (at least 3 top-level prospects), may or may not make the playoffs and LOSE if you do make it, lose Soriano after the season, and be without 3 top prospects going into next year. Here’s a word for that trade proposition: STUPID! If this deal were to be made, expect 1985-1990 revisited in the coming years!

By Robert

June 15, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

The bottom line is that this is a very poorly coached team. Pendleton and McDowell are both horrible and should go away now. People complain about Francoeur’s high strikeouts and few walks…look at the pitch he struck out on last night, in the dirt and a foot outside. Isn’t it a pitching coach’s job to help the hitter’s improve? This has been going on with Francoeur for a year now. Giles and Renteria both fail to execute the bunt last night…Giles still gets on base by a fluke, but the fact remains that his bunt was horrible…good high school players know that you put the barrel of the bat at the top of the zone and you don’t offer at anything above that. LaRoche with his stupid, long, loopy swing that looks more like what you would use with a five iron. Where’s the hitting coach. I knew exactly what pitch they were going to strike Betemit out on before they threw it…low and in on his shoetops, because everyone knows by now that he can’t lay off those. Where’s the hitting coach? Andruw can’t hold up on two checked swings, the count goes 2-2 when it should have been ball four, he ends up striking out. Where’s the hitting coach?

And as far as McDowell goes, all you have to do is look at the team ERA. Absolutely pathetic.

Cox and Schuerholz desrve there share of the blame also. Why did Schuerholz feel the need to go out and trade for Renteria? Because we lost our shortstop and had to find a replacement. So, when we lost our closer, why didn’t they go find a replacement? They obviously lost confidence in Reitsma last year, and Farnsworth did an outstanding job. So…what did Reitsma do to earn that job back? Nothing. Farnsworth leaves and they just give the job back to Reitsma by default. He did nothing to earn it back

Also, Bobby…if Jordan can’t hit left handers, why on earth is he still in a uniform? Ditto for Pratt. If Remlinger can’t get out lefthanders, what on earth is he doing in a uniform? Giles was an outstanding #2 hitter and he is a horrible leadoff hitter and the entire baseball world can see that except Cox. It’s way past time to switch Renteria and Giles. Or else trade Giles.

Pendleton, McDowell, Jordan, and Pratt should be gone today. LaRoche should be traded for whatever they can get for him, even if it’s just a bag of used balls.

And folks, as much as I’ve always liked him, if what we’re seeing from Chipper now is all we’re going to get from him from now on, we need to trade him before the year’s over. We’re not paying Chipper Jones a gazillion dollars to go .290 with a bunch of singles.

By Penn

June 15, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

Bob, it looked to me like Chipper might have been thinking that if he jumped for the ball the runner would plow into his gimp knee as he came down and if he jumped there was no assurance the out would have been made by the time it took him to get back on the sack.

Just supposin’ here. Anyway Chipper ought to have stuck around and had his say. The throw was too high in the first place and Remmy did that.

Hey, do ya suppose JS and BC could be playing all these bums in order to get the team value down so Arthur can afford to buy ‘em? Jest funnin’.

The team has regressed to the point where they truly are pitiful. Remember a couple of months back when I suggested the Marlins had put together some fine young players and would be heard from before the end of the year?

That was the same time I said that Willis and Cabrera were franchise type players. Both are in their early twenties and will make their mark before they are finished. Neither will be easy to get away from the Marlins because that team is going to some other city that appreciates them and then they will do just fine. Their GM, Larry Beinfest has made some really shrewd moves.

By Pantherssuck

June 15, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

Mr. drawl,

Big difference between 1991 and now is that team was very young, had tons of spunk, were going to be good for a long time, and played like they had nothing to lose (same as the Twins) because no one really took them seriously until Aug/Sept. This year, they are the hunted, are getting older, have no spunk, and will get everyone’s best shot. This ain’t 1991 dude, it’s 2006. ‘91 right now is pretty stale, just like the tomahawk chop!

By I think with a drawl

June 15, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

Soriano, Soriano, Soriano. And the south shall rise….again and agian….maybe 14 more times! Chipper Jones will respond to all this criticism with a fine finish. Andruw Jones, despite his free swingin’ ways, is one the most feared hitters on the planet, remember 51! Hey guys, it’s too early to call the race. The Mets are the baseball equivalent to Barbaros. Great starters, but to much pressure to finish. Hear come the Braves, and they’ll win by a full length!

What number proceeds 15?

By Mike

June 15, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

Some of you are forgetting that TW is in the middle of selling the team. That means all money assets are more than likely going to be frozen. Until the new owner (or baseball sucking company) buys the team, nothing major is going to happen.

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Robert….I totally agree with your assessment of TP. The hitters look like undisciplined clowns and much of that must be laid at his feet. On McDowell, I’m not sure anyone could do anything with this motley crew. There is a saying that goes…you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear…Roger is stuck with a whole lot of oinkers.

By UpperDeck4Life

June 15, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

I have a name of a leadoff type of out fielder that is not a superstar, but is a solid player. Dave Roberts, he steals bases, will hit in the uppper 200’s and will allow Giles to move lower in the lineup and try to get his confidence back. I bet he could be had for a whole lot cheaper than Crawford could.

I think the fighting, bickering, and finger pointing coming out of the locker room is not something that publicly has not been seen for a while. It might have taken place within the locker room in seasons past, but not in the public eye. I think that the team is young, as far as big league experience goes and that the vets, ie Andrew, Chipper, Hudson are not helping Smoltz keep the locker room in line and that that is hurting the team as well.

On a side note, just curious if anyone thinks that the Braves record could hurt the both Renteria and McCann’s chances of getting allstar nods. I think they are about the only 2 braves who are worthy of being mentioned with the all star game and would like to see both get the chance to represent the Braves in the game.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

I prefer the expression: “You can’t make chicken salad with chicken $hit.”

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

Half Glass…That one works too.

By Sammy Kershaw

June 15, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Glass 1/2 full, I beleive that is the year it started. I dont remember it going on before we got Deion. I dont think it was his idea but the fans picked up on it because of him.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

Never underestimate the stupidity of the average fan; the AL All Star team is made up entirely of Red Sox and Yankees because of the hype.

By Brent

June 15, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

I don’t think our record hurts Renteria or McCann.

We are a perennial power, and one down year likely won’t hurt us.

The biggest thing hurting those 2 guys is that Renteria was in the AL last year, and McCann is a rookie.

Nonetheless, at least 1 player on our team makes the all-star team. If Andruw Jones makes it (via ballot), and neither of these 2 guys do, something is fishy.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

sammy, you must understand that I cannot give Deion credit for anything…well, except dumping ice water on Tim McCarver.

By Brent

June 15, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

I meant “McCann was a rookie”

By Brent

June 15, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

Regardin the chop:

It caught on in ‘91; but SUPPOSEDLY, they use to try it at Fulton County in years past, but very few would do it.

Honestly, I’m not making that up.

There are stories that people (fans) did it in spring training that year, and then when Deion came to bat (perhaps for the first time?) in ‘91, the organ player starting playing the chant.

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

I know that the All-Star game is “for the fans,” but maybe the same folks that pick the Hall of Fame people should pick. Fans vote on name recognition only…it wouldn’t surprise me if Bonds get voted in. But hey, if fans voted for the HOF, Dale Murphy would be in…so I guess I’m torn…like an old sweater.

By DaleMurphyJr.

June 15, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

Some of you guys kill me..really! Hey let’s go get Carl Crawford, maybe the Rays are interested in Laroche or Langerhans! Hey, let’s make a deal for Soriano…but don’t mortgage the future! Wait, why don’t we get Dontrelle…just don’t give up Chuck James or Kyle Davies!

We’re on the outside looking in now and JS has picked the pockets of other GM’s so many times that they’re naturally wary of him. So don’t expect JS to pull a rabbit out of his butt this year…it ain’t gonna happen!

By Phat Bat Boy

June 15, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Smoltz for Zumaya!!! This era’s version of Doyle for Smoltz.

By Eric

June 15, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

we should have a firesale…keep Francouer McCann Renteria and AJ, all are bargains…even AJ….get rid of everyone else. (Not including pitching staff.) Start over from scratch. And get some prospects in return.

By billy g

June 15, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Trading Giles now is a sign of poor planning. He was miscast as a leadoff man. Speaking of being miscast. Sosa is a very good talent that is misused. He should be a strong set up reliever. He has nasty stuff that should have been nurtured properly.

I am seriously wondering about the Braves’ “braintrust.”

By Sammy Kershaw

June 15, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

Glass Half Full Who’s giving credit? I am not a fan of ripping off other teams traditions anyway.

By Inside/Outside Guy

June 15, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

I just heard through the rumor mill that JS has found his new leadoff/LF. Does the name Rickey Henderson sound familiar? Remember Julio?? Rickey has to be about Julio’s age.

By Bryan

June 15, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

I am a diehard Braves fan from the “ugly years”. Why does evrybody continute to say that the young kids are breaking the tradition.. I believe Smoltz, Chipper, Andruw, Bobby and most of the front office are still there from at least 10 years of the “tradition”. Come on people…The Braves have spoiled us, and now that they are having a tough time people are jumping off the band wagon like crazy. It isnt right. True fans will be there till the end, no matter what that end is….

By JMP

June 15, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

One thing is broke and several things are exposed. An offense should be able to post 5 runs and expect to win. How many times has the pitching staff, starters or relievers, not been able to capitalize with 5 runs scored this season?

Every pitcher, even in a good year, gets shelled a few times. That is why you have diversity in a bullpen.

The problem is the team has not played by the formula that has made them great. Pitchers have not thrown strikes. Probably because they have tried to be to fine. Defense has not been sound because they have not played to avoid the big inning. The offense has failed because every hitter is trying to hit a seven run homer. Its called pressing.

It begins and ends with pitching. They need to stop trying to avoid hitting bats and start just throwing strikes. And please throw strikes before the first two batters scratch their way on and the third walks!

By ronald

June 15, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this

not quite a week ago we heard a certain manager say “We’re going to get Betemit in the lineup more.” He gets n the lineup Saturday, goes 3 for 4 with two doubles. His reward? Back to the bench never to be seen again except in a pinch hitting role. My goodness, it’s so much more intelligent to start someone who is hitting .235.

As for Larry, he is a liability. He is providing no leadership. Unfortunately he has to approve any trade. That makes it highly unlikely he will be traded.

Now for Hudson, why in the heck was it so all fired important last year that he be locked up long-term?

By Blake

June 15, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

Rickey henderson now that is funny

By Glass Half Full

June 15, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

Update from PS2 fantasyland (preferable to today’s reality): Braves sweep Brewers in the 2008 NLCS & will face Cleveland in the World Series

By brian

June 15, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

hey murph,

we could probably get Willis without giving up James or Davies. It would cost us Salty and another top prospect though.

I agree that I find it laughable that people are expecting big things in return for trading LaRoche or Langerhans. I do think that Giles still has a lot of trade value although he has stunk it up this year - people will blame it on hitting out of position. St. Louis could use a 1B who would sit on the bench in another 4-6 weeks when Pujols returns. Sure would be nice to get Wainright back.

By teoa

June 15, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

Scheurholtz is too busy selling books and patting himself on the back to actually bother with his job.

Bobby is too busy doing nothing and sucking up to his veterans (who will, in turn, protect his supremely overrated reputation with the media) to bother with the many in-house options available to him to improve this team.

This team is going nowhere.

By Steve

June 15, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

Has anyone else noticed that McDowell seems to go out to the mound far less than Mazzone? That could be why the pitchers are struggling. Then again, Mazzone isn’t doing much for the Orioles, but it’s only his first season there.

By MetsFan in The ATL

June 15, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

I have NEVER gone on this blog. I’ve took all the abuse from Braves fans for years being a Met fan living in ATL and said nothing. Never said a word, negative or other wise. But now I feel its only right that I say “Your time is done.” 14 div. championships, one World series tittle. So what! You’ve dominated a division that for the most part has been weak for the past few years, you do nothing once you get to the playoffs and you fans want to go around like the Braves are some powerhouse unstoppable team. The Braves aint ** and now everybody knows it. I read the comments how this is bad and how Reeksma sinks, and Booby Cox is to loyal to some players,and how Time Wiener wont spend money, blah blah blah. Face it, the Braves time has run out, it was bound to happen at some point. Did you Braves fans think this was going to go on for ever? If not the Mets, it was going to be some other team, but fortunately for me and my fellow ATL Mets fans it was the boys from NYC who are putting an end to the Braves run. Now of course some of the more obnoxious Braves fans will respond to this entry and say things that make no sense and attack me personally. But keep these things in mind while you write your responses. First, I don’t intend on coming back here to read anything you have to say, as I said in the begining I never came here before in all the time I’ve lived here and will never come back so have at it with your comments. Secondly, what can you really say that would make any difference, your team is (after the Mets swept the Phillies) 13 or 13 1/2 games back with all those so called problems you speak of, so just suck it up and take it like men and women. The Team, The Time, The METS!

By Jimbo

June 15, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

Mets Fan…..STFU

By John Hoar

June 15, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this

This may sound a little stupid, but I am really reading with great interest almost all of the blogs. A lot of bloggers that have been silent for a long time are returning as well as this years regulars. Most everyone is thoughtful, a little depressed, or a little mad. But, for the most part all are making good points (with the info that we have to go on). I particularly am thankful for the optimists out there-hell- who knows at this point-you may be right. True, there are some that I just skip, but generally we all care about one thing- the Braves. So, hang in everybody! Maybe it’s not over….. From a personal point I am a sixty-nine year old that still runs a couple ot twenty-six mile marathons every year, so my nature is to keep enduring and I’m not giving up on this team.

By T Diddy

June 15, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

metsfan in the atl, you are a dumb a$$! i know you will come back to this blog and read the responses that were made to your trifling a$$ assertions. It’s not over!!!!! and besides, the sorry a$$ mets are going to choke anyway!!!!!!

trade giles, pratt, jordan, pendleton, mcdowell and a case of red bull to the devil rays for their head of ground keeping.

By Stuart

June 15, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

Chipper and the rest of Braves are defintely to blame. Sorry Chipper, but you have not shouldered much to help the Braves win over the past three years. Your performances in the last three postseasons have been average at best. I think the club and Chipper should ask if they are still a good fit. They traded Dale Murphy… will Chipper - longtime lifelong Brave be the next big trade.

Someone needs to kick some folks in the pants. Cox glosses over the crap too often. It may hurt team unity when Remlinger gripes about his throw and Chipper not catching his awful throw… but maybe the Braves should get mad and do something about it. Management is too soft and too egotistical to pay for what it needs. BRaves players are showing no heart, none at all. I will support the Braves for whatever they do and will remain a fan when they stink. But you hate to see a team not live up or even come close to its potential.

By TennesseePaul

June 15, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

I’m trying to hold the bag and make the catch and it went off the end of my glove, Chipper Jones said.

I didn’t see this play, but everything I’m reading tells me that moving Chipper to first would be a very, very bad idea.

By Braves Booster

June 15, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

I read MetsFan in the ATL’s comments, and they are right. We have been spoiled over the years and I have seen people on this blog attack people personally instead of keeping their comments to the Braves and baseball. TDiddy, you did just what Mets fan said would happen, you called them a dumda$$. Why, is what they said all that wrong. Would we not be rubbing it in the Mets fans faces if we were 13 games up on them? We have been on top for so long we don’t know how to handle not playing well. As John Hoar said, its not over yet, but we have got to admit, the Mets are sure making it tough.

By ChrisinPA

June 15, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

We can rip JS up and down, but the truth is, he has only won since coming to Atl. I’m sure some of you have read his book, and he made the statement that he hasn’t been smart enough to put together a Wild Card team, to win another WS. Well folks, maybe the mad genius is up to something. Let the Mets walk away with the division. We have all seen what happens to the past Braves teams that have runaway with the Division - they have sucked in the playoffs…and have been beaten by the past Wild-Card teams (Hou. last year, Marlins twice). I am still hopeful of a Wild Card berth, heck, I even favor it over winning the division…keep these guys’ heads in the game the whole season. I really want to believe Inside Guy about the trades. And the thought of Hillenbrand platooning at 1B with Thorman or even LaRoche, intrigues me. JS will get something done and we will make a run, just keep a little faith.

PS STOP with the Soriano rumor - it won’t happen and I’m glad - too much money and he won’t resign with the Braves.

By journalist jimmy smith

June 15, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith has tried over and over to re-enact the play from last night to determine if the ball should have been caught by uh, chipper jones. after repeatedly tossing the ball to third base high and away jimmy smith determined that baby seal could catch the ball when he jumped or moved off the bag slightly. when baby seal made little or no effort, the ball skipped off his glove and down the line. this is conclusive proof that the ball was catchable by most players with decent flippers.

By Bob, journalist

June 15, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

It’s so frustrating that I’m even amused with Guy’s “Mike Remlinger threw away a bunt”.

Seriously, it might be good for some stones to be thrown … after all, it looks like Chipper admits that the ball was catchable.

His rationalization, “With the bases loaded and nobody out, the odds are stacked against us anyway” … sounds good to me.

No time like tonight to put it all behind them and start learning how to play the game. It would be interesting to know the number of games that have been lost due to poor fundamentasls … verses … the number of fundamentally sound games played.

I think that the Braves are a much better team than the evidence is showing. A lot can be said of the influence of veteran leadership … often ignored is the fact that it can be bad.

By eric the elder

June 15, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this

Chipper makes $93,000 per game, whether he catches the ball or not. Why should he care? Why should any of us care?

By Bob, journalist

June 15, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

I know how to spell “versus” but to have spelled it correctly would have required that I change the lighting so that I could see the “u” key … I use the “e” key enought to know where it is on the keyboard … and besides, the game had started.

By eric the elder

June 15, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this

Marcus sits out with a “fever” of 100 degrees. My temp goes to 100 degrees just by mowing the lawn. Does this fall in the same category as Reitsma’s numbness? Is this a tea leaf that says Marcus really will be gone tomorrow?

By mad fan

June 15, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this

FIRE BOBBY COX.he sits there and runs out the same lineup thats not working. He put kenny ray in during the 8th last nite and ray gave it up.Y is reitsma still here?Im the biggest braves fan but barring a huge trade time to raise the white flag

By eric the elder

June 15, 2006 07:42 PM | Link to this

Diaz is hitting .727 in 22 ABs against Florida, and he’s batting 8th. Good one!

By Nelson

June 15, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

My dear feloow fans: Chipper Jhones, andruw Jones and Bobby Cox all three are a bunch of loosers, remove them and the team will go on. I know this won’t be wellcomed by many of you, but Im watching the Braves since 1991 and to do so down here in Florida is not free, I have to pay Direct tv to get the games and that give the right to say so. Bring some cuban players and a manager, they play total baseball, see El Duke he himself has 4 World Series rings. The cuban team in the World Classic, they were No Names players and them went to the Finals! Brayan Peña is much much better than this always out Tod Pratt. Take it or leave it but the problem are not the rookies but the old players, lets make a 100% rookie team and they will perform better than the mentioned loosers! Nelson.

By steve

June 15, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

When I said 3 weeks ago what everyone is saying now I was lamb basted. I said then the Braves didn’t have an impact player or a leader on the team. No one will speak out against anything that is happening. I can’t tell you if the error was remlingers fault or not. I can tell you if a player on a high school or college team made the effort to catch the ball that Chipper made, he would be riding the pine. I should say he made no effort. It was like “if you can’t hit me in the chest, I can’t catch it” effort. For a team so-called leader, that was no leading effort. Chippers response was, it didn’t matter anyway we were in dire trouble already. Did he remember a couple innings before when a rookie pitcher pitched out of a basesloaded one jam? Maybe if he had made the same effort as Chipper we would have won. You people need to think about that situation and our beloved leader. If you see nothing wrong with the action and the statement, then you have no answers to the Braves problems. You can trade for whom ever you like, but with that attitude, and it is team wide, it will make no difference. I admire the fact that Remlinger got mad enough to at least say the thruth. He didn’t say it was Chippers fault. Just that he could have made an effort, a winning effort.

I mentioned a month ago we should trade Chipper. No he is still a very good player, but not a team leader. He could help a winning team win, but not turn a losing tean around. He is complacent and need a change too! You could get a few good prospects or a quality player or two for him. We also have a replacement for him, that can hit the same average and hit 18-24 hrs. It is time to free up some money and rebuild. How much does Chipper impact the Braves in an overly positive way? Someone tell me plz.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

I had posted this on the other “blog” but didn’t get any “response” (that hurts my feelings) so I am reposting it here…..just to start some arguing!

Those pre-1990 teams would kick this teams A$$.

That’s how bad this team is. At least those teams wern’t supposed to win or be “competitive” let’s compair line up’s & you tell me who you’d rather have!

Catcher: OK that’s a nobrainer, McCann over Mike Heath!

1st Base: I’d take Gerald Perry over LaRoche anyday of the week.

2nd Base: Again, I’d take Ron Gant & his weak glove over Giles anyday.

Shortstop: I’d have to go with Renteria over Andres Thomas, but in all fairness Thomas had a “couple” of good halves of seasons too.

3rd Base: Probably have to go with Chipper (even with his diminished skills) over Jim “houndog” Presley.

Left Field: I don’t even remember who played left field for the 89 Braves, but I’m sure they hit better than Langerhans!

Center Field: Odibie McDowell if I remember correctly (the joke with my friends at the time is that his nickname was “Odibie in the minors” McDowell), that being said, this team could probably use him in the leadoff spot! Defensively, he wasn’t Andruw, but then again he wasn’t making 15 million dollars either! And it’s not like he couldn’t pick it in the outfield.

Right Field: Well in 89 it was an “aging” Dale Murphy (my favorite player of all time) & in 1990 it was a combination of Murphy/Justice (ROY based on 2nd half stats). Now we have Fancoeur……which is he going to turn out to be? Dale Murphy or Brad Komminsk (he was also touted as the “next” Dale Murphy)…..that didn’t quite pan out.

Rotation: Young Promising Arms of Steve Avery, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Marty Clary, and veteran Zane Smith……I’d take that young “up and coming” bunch any day of the week over this “overpaid” underachieving bunch.

Bullpen: Again I can’t remember any of the names in the pen (those teams were so bad, I usually had turned the channel by the time the starters had been removed)…….but there is no way in HELL that they could’ve been as pathetic as this bunch.

So in summation, maybe this team would “on paper” kick that teams butt.

But I’ve got a pretty good memory, and I don’t remember that team playing this poorly for this long of a stretch. And my guess is (without looking it up), that the late 80’s team at least once in a while won at least 3 games in a row!

YIPPY…..Betemit in the lineup!

Although, Chip just said he’s in the lineup because Marcus came down with the “flu”.

Nice to see that Bobby’s idea of getting Wilson in the lineup is waiting for sombody to get the SH*TS.

What the hell is Pratt laughing at in the dugout.

BTW…..Willis to me looks like the worst starter that the Marlins have.

Mark my words……the Marlins will win the East next year. Even the Overpriced Mets will be looking up at this team for the next few years.

So ask yourself the question, would throwing up the white flag on this season & maybe conceeding next year (by trading off all the overpriced veterans) be worth the reward in 2008?

I say ABSOF*CKING-LUTELY!

This team reminds me of one of my favorite movie quotes of all time from Christmas Vacation, Randy Quade as cousin Eddie holding the RV drain tube waiving at the neighbors:…….”Sh*tter’s Full!”

that about says it all!

JS….Start dumping!

By Bill

June 15, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this

LETS GO METS!!!!

By Bob, journalist

June 15, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this

Nathan, it’s unfortunate that you chose to repost … you have some good points but the vulgar language is offensive to many and seriously undermines any effort for your opinions to be respected or be taken very seriously by those you choose to offend … and I suspect, some of those you don’t.

By CobbCountyMetFan

June 15, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

Is SO GREAT to see ALL THIS fan implosion. Let’s make this easy for ALL OF YOU. The Braves will be VERY COMPETITIVE for 4th place this year.

Enjoy….

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this

I appologize for the vulgarity.

Somtimes I forget that there are kids possibly reading these posts.

Though, when there is a possiblity of “vulgraity” being on one of these message boards, parents shouldn’t let there kids be online.

As for the movie quote….I don’t appologize for that, because I was paraphrasing a quote. And I still think it’s funny.

Usually I try to keep the profanity out of my posts, but somedays it is hard to!

Again, sorry. The pot I’m trying to stir up, is about discussing the Braves downfalls, in the future I hope that peoples “negative” reaction to my posts has to do with the “criticism” not the vulgarity.

By Mr. Met

June 15, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this

THE TEAM, THE TIME, THE METS!!!

LETS GO METS!

By journalist jimmy smith

June 15, 2006 09:07 PM | Link to this

“one pitch, one out.” francoeur was up. this has become a familiar call by skip caray. now, “p” player pete orr is up. his socks are higher than his batting average. fly out to second baseman uggla. jimmy smith wishes we had uggla and they had uh, somebody else.

By John Schuerholtz

June 15, 2006 09:07 PM | Link to this

I will be making it official tonight after the game,the big trade i pulled off today,it has been in the works,finally it happened,giles to the Twins for Joe Nathan,notice giles not playing tonight,he is upset over the trade but he will be ok.immediately after the game ends,stay tuned.

By eric the elder

June 15, 2006 09:07 PM | Link to this

nathan, classy post.

Yikes! Where have all these Mets fans been the last 14 years?

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

eric, are you being sarcastic about my “vulgar” post, or are you complimenting me on my appology?

By eric the elder

June 15, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

nathan, I thought your apology was classy. Sorry for being unclear.

By journalist jimmy smith

June 15, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

this yates fellow seems to have a homerun pitch. does he have an out pitch? why don’t the marlins’ kids swing at the pitches that don’t cross the plate like the braves? have you seen bobby tonight? Seated to his left is a designated picker. journalist caught him last inning.

By Mr. Met

June 15, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this

All these Mets fans have been right where we’ve always been supporting our team win or lose. Mostly lose, but times have changed. Haven’t they. Be real, have we Met fans had much to crow about the last few years? NO. So don’t ask that stupid question, “Where have the Met fans been?” Its obvious that now we have something to cheer about, the dimise of the Braves! Its nice to see you guys whine and moan about how your team doesn’t do this and doesn’t do that, and how your manager stinks and your bullpen is for crap. That’s what we Mets have been doing for the last few years. Welcome to our old world. Not so much fun is it?

By The Mets

June 15, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this

Remember the big lead the White Sox had last year? I hope we don’t almost blow it and win the World Series. Oh, Dammit! I forgot, we don’t have 4 dominant starting pitchers. Oh, well, Lets just keep winning.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

I appreciate it.

I like complaining & gettin people’s “goats”

But I’m sure not out to offend anybody.

PS…..Betemit doesn’t look too bad at 2nd base, does he? I’ve been a big fan of Giles effort for years, and don’t blame him for being uncomfortable in the leadoff hole. But the time has come, for Betemit to play everyday.

I realize that the person posting as JS is not really him (if it is, get off the computer & get on the phone and make some trades! LOL!), but I thought the same thing with Giles out of the lineup - is he on the move?

What do you know?…..Betemit a leadoff double…..Let’s see how the middle of the order can screw this up!

It’s gonna be interesting!

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

Way to get the runner over renteria!!!!!

All i can do is look towards the ground & shake my head!

I’m sorry, I get that Bobby doesn’t “play” the games. But the lack of fundamental baseball is a direct reflection on his “ho-hum” personality!

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

Can you say: “And, andruw jones hits into an inning ending double play!”

ALL TOGETHER NOW! “And, andruw jones hits into an inning ending double play!”

By eric the elder

June 15, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this

Mr Met, you make good points and I understand. It’s just that it would never have occurred to me to get on a Mets blog and rub your fans’ faces in it. Years of Braves success was always enough. There was no need to dump on the opposition. But it’s a free country.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this

tsk, tsk, tsk…..If Renteria gets the runner over to 3rd, Andruws fly ball scores a run. That is why this team will lose 100 games this year……mark it down!

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this

WOW…..this Stockman kid looks good!

where was this guy a month ago?

Velocity & natural movement…..nice!

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

I guess I spoke too soon! LOL!

Hey this guy will fit right in around here. He gets ahead 0-2 & can’t put the batter away!

Welcome to Atlanta, son!

By Mr. Met

June 15, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

Eric, you should have gone on a Mets blog and you would have seen the knuckleheads who would come on and talk so much $hit you wouldn’t believe. Thats the reason I knew to come on the Braves blog. But I’m done, no need to say much more about the current situation. Lets see how the rest of the year plays out. take care Eric.

By 14-year-old

June 15, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

So I go to my dad, and I’m like, when do we order our playoff tickets and he’s all, the Braves aren’t going to make the playoffs this year, and I go, what do you mean make the playoffs, they have been in the playoffs every year of my life, and he’s like, they’re not going to win their division this year and I’m all, so what, those division titles don’t mean anything, and he’s like, they are what get you into the playoffs, and I’m like DIVISION TITLES DON’T MEAN ANYTHING, and he’s all, yes they do.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

I know I’m beating a dead horse, but the marlins seem to know how to get runners over, and I bet they’ll get the runner in!

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

who wants to put money that the Braves get a solo HR in the ninth just to make it another 1-run loss? (and to compound the lack of moving the runner over in the eighth.)

bueller, bueller……..

By Mets Stink

June 15, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

Stockman, 0 runs!

By Good Fortune

June 15, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

Was there a Baseball team looking for me?

By John Schuerholtz

June 15, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

I will be online after the game to answer your question and to talk about the Joe Nathan for Marcus Giles trade that i pulled off today.looking forward to all your comments,please keep them clean and nice,no negativity please.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

god am i good!

LaRoche…..solo HR

By Good Fortune

June 15, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this

Good call nathan.

By Mets Stink

June 15, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this

good call nathan

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this

thank you good fortune!

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

sorry JS…..Giles pinch hitting, so he’s still ours! LOL!

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

If Giles had a “fever” and couln’t play, why is he pinch hitting? Nice call Bobby.

By eric the elder

June 15, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Mr Met, if you’re still reading, I wondered about that after I sent the post. Were there really Braves fans lurking around Mets blogs? You say there were, and I believe you. I think that’s too bad. Seems like it would be a lot more fun cheering on the home team than hoping for some other team’s demise, as you put it. Anyway, you seem like a good guy, which proves that people can be fans and even fanatic without being jerks.

By Bandwagon

June 15, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

You may exit the vehicle.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

Hey, what’s wrong with being a little bit of a jerk sometimes? LOL!

Just Kidding, Good Night all!

Signed, “a fan hoping to wake up in the morning, to read on line that the Braves began their firesale!”

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

Hey Guy, you forget that Chipper is likely playing injured and that’s why his power numbers are down. Teams are remembering that Andruw will swing at any slider 10 feet near home plate to get him out these days. Hudson has been great IMO. He has kept the Braves in most all of his starts. Smoltz was dominant earlier in the year but still pitches well enough to win games. Its kinda odd that you point out the minor weaknesses of the stars but don’t mention the rest of the offense’s huge struggles or the bullpen by names. Those 4 stars can be counted on. Its the others that have opened the losing flood gates…

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this

There’s no “T” in JS name faker. Your name should be BS.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

Wow ! Swept by the minor league Marlins. Sosa pitched well enough to win tonight (2 runs allowed). Its gonna get worse. They have to face the Red Sox (Beckett 7-3 and Schilling 9-2) next.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

robdawg…..I agree with you that those 4 can be “counted on”. But at this point you need your 4 most “expensive - veteran” players to step WAY UP! not be mediocre to above average. The league is full of a lot of guys that are “mediocre to above average” that will cost a heck of a lot less than those 4 do.

And as for Chipper being injured, the he should get his butt out of the lineup and let the “healthy” betemit play, because I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again, at this point of his career 75 percent of CJ is not as good as 100 percent of Wilson Betemit.

Playing hurt doesn’t help anybody when you’ve got healthy compitant options on the bench. If the braves had no better option than to let Chipper play hurt, than MAYBE I can see keeping him in there.

Turns out Reitsma was hurt too, (supposedly), do you agree with him not telling Bobby he couldn’t feel his fingers. Did him showing how “tough” he was helping the Braves?…….Didn’t think so! So if CJ is hurt, get on the pine!

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this

Chipper’s hitting .287 and that’s as well as Betemit would do if he started. You think the Braves 4 stars are the only overpaid players ? The MLB is full of them. Those 4 have played well enough for the Braves to win if they could get help from the other starting pitchers and the bullpen. All but one of Smoltz losses were because the bullpen blew leads. You know that Andruw is a streaky hitter and will catch fire and hit 15 homeruns in 20 games at some point.

By Ken Stallings

June 15, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

The team just got swept by the Florida Marlins, have lost 9 of their last 11 games, and are now over 12 games behind the Mets.

If not now to blow up this bullpen and undertake massive trade-induced reformation, then forget the effort and resign yourself to a miserable season.

The Atlanta Braves have too much core talent to allow a pathetic bullpen to implode the whole team. Bobby and John have done great things in the past, but that doesn’t matter for this season.

The GM needed to carry out the radical bullpen makeover three weeks ago when the Braves were in striking distance of the Mets. It’s too late now. The team is angry, snipping at each other, and utterly shell-shocked.

This team needs to be sold to an ownership group that cares about winning and doesn’t regard the Braves as a nice side piece.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

Where are your faults with Giles, Nathan ? Betemit should play 2b not 3b.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

Where are your faults with Giles, Nathan ? Betemit should play 2b not 3b.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this

I agree totally Ken. Fans are starting to blame the best 4 players on the team instead of the cancerous bullpen. Can the big 4 play better ? Yes. My question is can the bullpen PLAY AT ALL ?

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

The “core talent” for me is Chipper,Andruw,Diaz,Francoeur,McCann,Smoltz,Hudson,McBride,and J.Sosa. You can trade or release everyone else for all I care. Call up replacements from Richmond.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this

Add Betemit to my keep list.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

I wish Chipper would put the SMACKDOWN on journeyman can’t pitch or throw Remlinger….

By nathan

June 15, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

robdawg06

If you would have read any of the earlier posts, you’d see that I’ve been pushing for about 3 weeks for betemit to play in giles spot in the field and the batting order.

I’m not talking about other players on other teams being overpaid. I’m talking about the BRAVES. With an 80 million dollar payroll, it’s very difficult to have 4 or 5 players (Hampton) taking up half of the payroll. But if you are going to overspend on 4 or 5 players they better be worth it. I do however agree with you that Smoltz has been steady & the pen has imploded on him. But ask yourself this, How many leads has the bullpen blew for everybody else on the staff as well? Would this team be better off with a rookie (Chuck James?) in the rotation and Smoltz as the closer. I understand he didn’t get used as the closer in the playoffs, because they couldn’t get to him with a lead. But the only way he’s getting used in the playoffs this year, is on another team. Because for two years now, he has chosen to be in the rotation, rather than where this team really needed him to be. I get that he’s been here for ever, and he knows his body better than anybody, but he has to be askin himself if this team would be in better shape had he stayed in the pen.

He would’ve been (and probably still will be) a sure fire HOFer if he’d have stayed a closer. He blew less saves in 3 years as the closer than the Braves have in 1 season + 60 some games. OUCH!

I LOVE Smoltz and hope he finishes his career as a Brave (he deserves it as do the fans). But even at 11 million dollars for his salary, I believe as a team we would’ve been better off with 2 prospects in the rotation and putting that money towards a closer in the offseason. What good is it to have 1 dominant starter and a bullpen that can’t hold his leads. Look at the marlins, they have a bunch of good live young arms and what do they have in the pen? A serviceable closer why? So the young guys don’t feel like they have to go 9 to get a win.

By Head Coach

June 15, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

I’m laughing my butt off , My Bravos just got swept by a triple AAA farm team ? are you kidding me , two more one run losses against a team of minor leaguers and the Mets are the hottest team in the majors and arguably the best team in the National league. Its all over but the crying for Braves nation and its only going to get worse. I predict we will be 20 games out by the end of the month. The Mets are turning this division run into a route. Why in Gods name would John Schuerholz even bother to add anything to this disaster ? Why ? whats the point ? pull the damn plug , please !!!

By David O'Brien

June 15, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

Eric the Elder (sounds like your rap name, by the way, MC Eric the Elder), my man I can assure you that absolutely was not me posting under any pseudonym. I didn’t even check the blog yesterday, I’m proud to say. When you’ve covered as much of this mess as I have lately, you really need to get completely away from it for a couple days. For that, I’m thankful to the bosses.

Glass Half Full, Carl Crawford is only in the second year of a very reasonable four-year, $15.25 mill contract with two club option years that could extend the deal to 2010. If Braves could get him, they should, in my opinion. Not just for now, but for future. He’s your left fielder for next 3-5 seasons if you can get him, and that’s why I think it’s worth giving up two top prospects to get him, maybe one of the middle infielders (Escobar or Andrus or one of the younger ones even) and a pitching prospect, anyone but Chuck James. Seriously, even Davies if it came to that.

I say this because Crawford is about a .290 career hitter, hit .301 last year, led AL in triples past two seasons (a whopping 34 over two seasons), had 160 steals the past three seasons … in other words, he’s exactly what Braves lack, a serious threat to steal and a guy who, even with a low OBP, could still hit leadoff rest of this season because he can be at second or third on any at-bat, via an extra-base hit and/or steal.

I still believe Braves should go for the wild card. As history has shown, wild card teams that are playing hard right to the wire usually do quite well in the postseason, or at least several of them have. And while Braves look horrendous, if they would make three big moves they could turn it around. Seriously. Not one or two small ones, but three big ones:

1. Dontrelle (yes, give up Salty and a middle inf or pitching prospect to get him

2. Carl Crawford (see above)

3. Adam Wainwright or a similar impact reliever (trade Giles and maybe a low-level prospect, which you might have to do because of Giles’ low production this season and $3.85 mill salary, which will go to over $5 mill in arbitration next season).

But I repeat _ it’s gotta be an impact reliever, not S. Torres.

If you haven’t been able to trade Sosa and/or Thomson in any of these deals, move one to the bullpen and put Chuck James in rotation. If you don’t trade Davies, put him in rotation for the other struggling veteran when Davies is ready after break, and move that guy to the ‘pen, too.

Potential lineup in unlikely (extremely unlikely) even these trades would occur:

1. Crawford, LF/1B

2. Renteria, SS

3. Chipper Jones, 3B

4. Andruw Jones, CF

5. Brian McCann, C

6. Jeff Francoeur, RF

7. Wilson Betemit, 2B

8. Adam LaRoche, 1B or (when Crawford’s at 1B) either Matt Diaz or Scott Thorman in LF

In this scenario, Diaz is my fourth OF and Thorman’s a 1B/OF/PH

While I’d hate to lose Langerhans’ defense, he’s included in one of the above-mentioned trades.

OK, thought I’d throw it out there, show you how Braves can still win the wild card.

Now, did anyone see Neko Case and the voluptious Kelly Hogan on Letterman last night? Outstanding. Voice of an angel, Neko has.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this

Ok Nathan. You forget that when the big 4 were handed these big contracts when AOL spent money and the Braves were among the top 5 teams in payroll. But now that they have been reducing payroll the last 5 years you can’t renegotiate their contracts. All took less money to play for the Braves. I know Smoltz & Andruw got offered way more money by the Yankees.

By brian

June 15, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

I will continue to root for the Braves as a diehard whether they are in first or last. Doesn’t matter to me where they are in the stands as to whether I will follow them or not, but, man, do I hope when I wake up in the morning and turn on Sports Center, I will hear of 2+ trades the Braves have made to turn their season around (of course without killing the farm)- Giles gone for a closer, acquiring a bat, or taking Willis with us back to Atlanta. PLEASE SOMETHING.

Chipper it is up to you and Smoltz to light a fire for this team. Stand up or go home

By nathan

June 15, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

It’s not that I don’t like Chipper. He’s been the “face” of the braves for years.

But with the injuries and production he’s had the last 3 years, he hasn’t been worth the money.

I’ll put it to you this way: If he had not been here doing great things for the better part of a decade and he would’ve signed a 3 year deal as a free agent coming from another team before the 2003 season, people would be calling for his head. So let’s not give him a free ride for what he’s done in the past. Those seasons and stats should be celebrated and commended, but it doesn’t justify what he’s done the last 3 years.

If Clemens comes back and sucks, do the Astros’ fans have the right to be angry? You bet they do, that’s money that could’ve been spent elsewhere.

So don’t think I’m bashing Chipper, I’m not! I just think he’s at the end of a very fair contract, but in the present postition the Braves are in finanically, they could be spending that money elsewhere more wisely. His numbers the last three years are about equivlent to Bill Meullers. Would you be commending the Braves front office if they would sign Bill Mueller to a 3 year 30 million dollar contract? I don’t think I would.

So wake up people, all players tail off at the end of their careers (except for the ones on the juice!). Face facts, Chipper’s on the decline and it’s time to move on. The same way the Braves did in 1990 with Dale Murphy.

When Justice was traded to the Indians, he was quoted as saying (i’m paraphrasing) “If Dale Murphy can get traded, why should I be shocked to get traded”

This is how Braves fans need to look at CJ. Thank him for time already served, and move on.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

DOB, Diaz is the hottest Braves hitter next to McCann. While I like Crawford’s speed, I think you can keep those pitchers and let Betemit bat leadoff. We need at least 3 new relievers including a closer in the bullpen.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

Chipper has been hurt the last 3 years. You cannot fault a player for injury. Chipper will hit .300 30 100 again. You can quote me on that Nathan.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this

Not this year either Nathan. When he starts another season (hopefully next year) healthy. I did not know that LaRoche had 10 hrs and 35 rbi’s. Pretty impressive in a platoon role…

By Blake

June 15, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Good post but what if anything, do we have a reasonable chance of pulling off. (your best guess)

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this

Murphy was hitting .230 with no homeruns when traded. Chipper is hitting .287 and still smashing balls everywhere that are caught. Chipper has at least 3 good years left and maybe 4 or 5.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

yeah robdawg06

they all took less money to be on a team with a bunch of superstars, where they didn’t have “pressure” to actually earn their big dollars. Same way as Farnsworth took essentially the same ammount of money to Rivera’s setup man rather than to be the Brave’s closer. Some players step up when the pressure is on, and some don’t. Andruw did it last year, Brady Anderson had 1 monster year too, thank god we didn’t sign him like we tried to. Smoltz did take less money to stay, so did Andruw. That should be commended. But let’s see what Andruw “settles for” on the next contract. Now that all of the other superstars are gone, will he leave for more money elswhere, where he can be surrounded by other stars (Yankees) or will he stay and be a leader and carry a team the way a 20 million (I assume that’s the ballpark he’ll be in) player should do?

Look at AROD in Texas was he a great player? YES. But in the long run, the Rangers decided that that was too much money to have tied up in one player. Which it was.

There is only a few Michael Jordans, Joe Montanas,Tom Bradys etc… in the world that elevate everybody else around them to greatness. To me these are the only players that deserve to be payd this kind of money.

But this is straying a little bit from what I would like it to be. To me it’s simply about playing who gives you the best chance to win on a nightly basis. And IMO Chipper isn’t dominating anymore. Worst case, he should be lower in the batting order. It’s time to turn a new leaf people. Let it go.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

Again, if Chipper is healthy and struggles then I will agree with you. He was hurt earlier in the year and is still not 100%. You and I just think Chipper is at different stages in his career. To you, he’s done. To me, he has 3 or more very good years left. I guess we will see who is right in the future.

By brian

June 15, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

Great post DOB and exactly what the Braves need. Following up on your earlier Willis post that would give us SP of Smoltz, WIllis, Hudson, James, Ramirez (assuming Davies is dealt). Not bad and lock up willis you will have hudson, Willis, and James locked up for years.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this

Don’t get me started on football. The systems are what made Joe Montana and Tom Brady great. You put Dan Marino in his prime in those systems and you go undefeated and win back to back to back Super Bowls. Now Michael Jordan (who is the greatest athlete all-time in any sport) would make even the Hawks good in his prime.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

I say get Dontrelle Willis too. He can even hit better than most of our hitters… Lol. Seriously, he would be a gem to get.

By David O'Brien

June 15, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

Nathan, is reality not a factor in any of your posts and recommendations? Is the team and baseball itself just existing in a vacuum for you, where none of the collective bargaining rules or the no-trade protection afforded an 10-and-5 player matter at all to you, or do you simply operate under the assumption that all these rules and payroll restrictions and everything else that is the reality of baseball economics simply doesn’t matter, and that only what you think is best for the team is all that matters?

See, because how it works is, those are guaranteed contracts. GUARANTEED. So Chipper’s going to get his money, period. And if he doesn’t want to be traded, he won’t be traded, period. Now, even if he agreed to be traded, you’re assuming another team is going to pay his salary, right? Because there is NO WAY Braves are going to pay part of Chipper Jones, a bonafide Braves icon whether you like him or not, no way they’re going to pay part of his salary to make him go away in a trade. Understand?

I’m not trying to be a smarta#@, just seriously wondering if you realize this. Because it makes all your suggestions pretty irrelevent. Even if the team wanted to trade him _ and believe me, they don’t, regardless of what you and some other fans desire _ then they couldn’t without getting his approval and getting a team to pay his entire salary _ $11 million each of the next two seasons (2007 and 2008), and a vesting option worth between $8 mill and $11 mill in 2009. You think a team is going to come forward to do that, even if the Braves wanted to trade him?

I reiterate, since some can’t seem to make the distinction between NFL and baseball big-money contracts: It’s all guaranteed. Just like Arizona is going to pay $22 mill for Ortiz to go away, because it’s all guaranteed.

OK? So let’s stick to reality. Chipper’s not going to be traded, and he’s not moving to 1B, at least not during this season. And Andruw is absolutely not going to be traded this season (I feel ridiculous even typing that).

By nathan

June 15, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

no robdawg06

I don’t think he is done. And in all fairness, if the new ownership spend some more money to raise the payroll, it is fine by me to keep him around as long as he wants to. But if the payroll is going to stay the same (which means it actually goes down, since we will be paying 14 million for hampton next year), then I don’t think we can “afford” to pay Chipper that money for mediocre to above average stats. That money needs to be spread around a little bit. When you have restraints on the budget, you have to spend wisely. That Hampton trade is coming back to bite us next year. I agree with you about Chipper, if healthy, I think he’ll put up good numbers again. But also, Father Time is ticking, and with all the amphetamine and steroid testing (not accusing CJ of anything), you are going to see a lot of mid-30’s players getting injured “a lot more” than in years past. It’s just natural, guys aren’t supposed to get stronger, healthier and better in their mid-30’s.

Like I said above, I’m not bashing Chipper, he’s just not what he used to be.

As far as the injuries, when a team has unlimited budget (Braves of old) and a player goes down with an injury, you just go out and overspend on anybody to fill the “temporary gap”. But when you don’t have that flexibility, you can’t do that. Look at Frank Thomas or Griffey JR. Nobody is doubting their natural abilities to play this game, but unfortunately, injuries need to be factored in when doing long term contracts. Now being fair to CJ he has been pretty healthy in his career other than blowing out his knee very early. So you can’t fault the Braves for giving him good money long term. But they would never give him that contract again with the knowledge of an 80 million dollar payroll. That is why I think they will let Andruw walk, unless Smoltz retires by then and some young guns are showing promise at a lower price.

Of course like I said above, it all changes if new ownership opens the checkbook.

So we may disagree on Chippers “value”. I don’t think he is “done”, I just think it’s time to move on.

By tyyosh

June 15, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

But DOB, Why would the Marlins need to go below 15 mil and get rid of Dontrelle now? They are EVEN with the Braves in the loss column now. And if the Braves can try to get back into wild-card position, then as absolutely c-r-a-z-y as it sounds, why wouldn’t the Marlins try to make a run? If they really have the kind of pitching it looks like they might, with Willis, Nolasco, and Johnson, a decent closer, and potentially 1-2 decent set-up guys, why not try to see what you can do? As this year and the 70’s proved, it is ALWAYS about the pitching first.

By David O'Brien

June 15, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

Don’t know why my laptop changed “a” 10-and-5 player to “an” 10-and-5 player, but it did. Anyway, it made the mistake, not me (if only we could blame computers for all our typos and mistakes).

and the distinction I was making, to be clear, is that NFL deals, with a very few rare exceptions, aren’t guaranteed. All that’s guaranteed is those huge signing bonuses, which is why those agents get them for the star players. then if the team cuts them, they have to speed the entire signing bonus into that year’s salary cap, if I’m not mistaken. So if an NFL star gets an eight-year, $80 mill contract with a $20 mill signing bonus, only the $20 mill bonus is guaranteed. Team could cut him after second year of the contract, and only have to pay off rest of the bonus if it wasn’t already paid, but has to count entire bonus into that year’s salary cap, which basically gives the star player some assurance of not getting cut early on in the deal.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

Steroids is a quick healing drug. I’m quite sure that F.Thomas,Chipper,and Griffey Jr. never used steroids because all 3 are still hurt. If Ken Griffey Jr. would have used steroids he would have smoked Hank Aaron’s 755 homerun record by now.

By A Nobody

June 15, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

DOB, we know you have some well-deserved days off, but man, do we miss you! Glad to have you back!

By David O'Brien

June 15, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

Tyyosh, you’re right in one regard _ they could catch Braves.

However, Marlins won’t spend any money to add players this year, not with their majors-worst attendance, etc. And if they don’t think they can keep Dontrelle next year _ and they won’t be able to, unless they want to spend $8-9 mill for him in arbitration next year, at least _ then they might want to trade him to a team that has playoff aspirations right before the deadline, when his price could skyrocket, particularly if he pitches well between now and then.

But you’re right, the way they’re playing right now (the Marlins, that is), they might want to keep him for rest of season and then trade him in offseason. It’s just that most of the time, a team can get more for a player from a desperate contender at the trade deadline than during the offseason, when haggling gets interminable (witness Braves/Tampa Bay talks last winter, etc.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

DOB

I do understand all of that. And my assumption is that the Braves don’t want to trade Chipper. But the other Assumption is that if they are going to be “rebuilding” in the near future, would he really want to stick around for it?

If he does, than that is great. He is a loyal brave. But when players get towards the end of their careers, they do start thinking about winning rings “on their way out”. Maybe since Chipper has won one already, he’s not thinking like that.

But it’s kind of like I said earlier, (actually I read it on ESPN.com - and this is not to say that Chipper is as bad as Ortiz), but why compound overpaying sombody (based on current health or ability) by playing them everyday? If somebody on the roster can out perform (maybe betemit can, maybe he can’t) he should get a chance to prove it. So I commend Arizona for realizing that Ortiz was a joke and “getting rid” of him and “eating” the money, they’ve got to pay him either way whether he’s good or not, so why give him the chance to ruin their season by letting him play in games. Like I said above, this is not putting Chipper in the same class as Russ Ortiz, but it certainly applies to Reitsma and Kolb.

If the Braves are “done” for the year and out of the wildcard. I say get rid of what they can. And not for me to be a SmartA$$ DOB, but you don’t think the Boss or another AL GM would take Chipper as a DH (if the Braves were selling and he accepted) I think if all he did was hit, he’d stay much healthier. Just my opinion.

But I do appreciate you finally responding to one of my posts (even if it is to RIP me a new one….LOL!) I love your column, you seem to speek your mind objectively, not a fan and I appreciate that.

Now that I have your attention, did you see my question about teams lowering ticket prices when they “firesale” players off?

If you didn’t, I’ll ask it to you again.

By David O'Brien

June 15, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this

And one last thought: Did the Marlins do an amazing job with the trades in last year’s firesale, or what? I mean, they’re dripping with young talent.

But their time is, in my opinion, two years from now. And if they can add more guys of elite-prospect status, say a catcher like Salty, though I’m just throwing that out there, then by 2008 they could be solid at virtually every position, and perhaps moving to another city by then, or _ and I’ll believe it when I see it _ putting a shovel in the ground for a ballpark in South Florida (again, I’ll believe that when I see it, and not until then).

So much good young talent, and arms. Wow.

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 11:16 PM | Link to this

Any team in MLB would take Chipper if they could afford his contract. Chipper is one of the 15 best hitters in MLB when healthy. He’s certainly my favorite all-time player. Just like when Dale Earnhardt got killed I quit watching Nascar pretty much, if Chipper leaves I’ll probably not watch the Braves as much.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

I guess that is the part of a “firesale” that has to go your way….getting good return on the talent you trade off.

But yes to agree with you DOB, the Marlins did a fantastic job in getting IMO better talent on their roster than what they gave up, at fractions of the cost none the less!

Great scouting and trading. And if the Braves could do the same, I’d gladly sit through 2 “tough” seasons as a fan to see the upside. New blood, DOB…..New Blood!

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

But the biggest difference between the Marlins and Braves is the Braves HAVE a great minor league system that produces great young talent and the Marlins don’t. The way the Braves have done it is add a few very good rookies to the core of veterans every year. IMO they just signed or traded for the wrong veteran relievers (namely Kolb,Reitsma,Villareal,Cormier,and Remlinger).

By Blake

June 15, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

is Jeff Weaver worth taking a chance on? We could get him for almost no talent and the Angels will pay alot of his salary

By robdawg06

June 15, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

The Marlins build and then firesale and rebuild again. The Braves keep enough core veterans and promising rookies in the minors to not have to do that.

By Woogidy

June 15, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this

Good to see ya DOB. Maybe the Brave swill do what the Schaumburg Flyers did, and let the fans manage the team! Check out that story on ESPN.com

By Bo

June 15, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

Fire JS and hire DOB as GM. I totally agree with your trades etc. Why can’t JS and BC get off their as* and do something. Three trades and Braves could turn it around. Keep us informed DOB.

By nathan

June 15, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this

you are right robdawg.

It is a more “fan friendly” way of rebuilding. Just adding a “dash” of rookie with a “sprinkle” of veteran. Sounds like a good recipe to me! But when you flip over the container holding the veteran players and the expiration date is coming up, you have to be careful or you have a year like the one we’re having. If I had confidence that Chipper and Andruw would play at a very high (and healthy) level, I’d have no problem continuing on the way we have.

Who’s to say this year (losing) insn’t the FLUKE in the middle of this streak, and with some tweaking in the offseason, there should still be enough talent on the roster without completely gutting it, to be “competitive” as JS would say.

But I think even the wild card is out of reach this year. Too many good teams playing much better ball than the braves are for even a couple of “major” trades to fix this mess. Somthing should’ve been done with the bullpen 3 or 4 weeks ago when we were still in striking range (to agree with what some one else posted earlier - I forget who). But it’s time to pull the plug on the season.

Let the young guys get their lumps in the bullpen so we can find the closer of the future without mortgaging that future in a trade, nobody is really going to get rid of a reliable closer anyhow. So we need to groom one for next year. Maybe Devine, maybe Stockman, maybe Startup, maybe even Sosa. Who knows maybe Chipper agrees to play 1B next year and spends the offseason prepairing for it, so Betemit can play 3rd. Or maybe we package Betemit, Giles & LaRoche to sombody with a BIG TIME 1B. Can’t think of any that are tradeable off the top of my head.

But lets let the kids play so the can earn their wings and re-evaluate in the offseason and get em’ in 2007. Before the Malins realize how good they’re gonna be! LOL!

By Blake

June 15, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this

I think the most we can hope for is a reliever, I just dont think anything else will happen. I hope I am wrong though

By Blake

June 15, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

I think the most we can hope for is a reliever, I just dont think anything else will happen. I hope I am wrong though

By Postal Joe

June 15, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this

nathan, go to bed. you’ve got class tomorrow.

By inside guy

June 16, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this

Another bad loss, to the point where I’m sure Braves Nation patince is being pushed. Things have stayed steady on the trade front, from what I’m told, but I heard again late tonight that the Giles deal is getting the “T’s crossed,” if you will. I haven’t heard anything as far as Carl Crawford, but that means nothing with JS. He has a nack for flying under the radar. One name I keep hearing is Trevor Hoffman, which makes little sense except for the fact that the Braves wanted him over the winter. I don’t know about the Hoffman thing, but hearing it a few times makes it worth the mention. I would expect things to break early Friday afternoon. Glass Half Full, keep your chin up. You too, Postal.

By Robert

June 16, 2006 01:00 AM | Link to this

Hard for a Braves fan to be too crotocal of the Marlins. After all, the Fish have twice as many titles as we do.

There’s a donkey in the dugout

By inside guy

June 16, 2006 01:14 AM | Link to this

BREAKING NEWS: Just recieved confirmation that Giles deal is complete, sending him and Sosa to the Twins for Joe Nathan. Also, the other deal in the Braves lap is with the Padres. It would involve Dave Roberts going to Atlanta, along with a relief pitcher. Look for the pressers tomorrow.

By gotigers72

June 16, 2006 01:16 AM | Link to this

Just went on the minor league website and saw where Scott Thorman played left field in Richmond’s doubleheader tonight. Verrry interesting!

By Charlie

June 16, 2006 01:22 AM | Link to this

We all knew the streak would eventually end. This year the Braves are getting no breaks whatsoever and they just can not get the pieces to ft together. They’ve got injuries to key players like Boyer, Devine, Foster, Hampton, & Davies. Other players are having below average years like Chipper, Andruw, Smoltz, Giles, Hudson, Sosa, & Thomson. Time to look at what could be done to build for the start of a new streak in 2007.

While I’m dissapointed in this year’s results, I’m darn proud of how they’ve done over the past 14 years.

By Robert Disenchanted

June 16, 2006 01:32 AM | Link to this

I am so sick of this anemic offense. Please JS fire Terry Pendleton and bring in a hitting coach who teaches situational hitting and working the count. I am sick of all the K’s. Terry sits there on camera laughing with the guys instead of discussing adjustments during the game. After Franceour home run last night the camera panned down the dugout and there was Terry laughing. Terry should be working with the players making adjustments between at bats. Please quit being so loyal to former Braves and bring in a new hitting coach. The number of K’s this year and the struggles off the last year and during post season points to the hitting coach. Please JS bring in a new hitting coach before the All Star break. Right now there is no need for the players to order new bats becuase they can’t make adjustments and put the bat on the ball. Home runs are great and very majestic but some singles and doubles strung together in an inning would lead to just as many reuns. Please TP go away.

By jon

June 16, 2006 01:56 AM | Link to this

Inside guy…If I’m wrong I completely apologize, but I think your full of it!

By Head Coach

June 16, 2006 02:12 AM | Link to this

I agree with David O’Brien , Chippper and Andruw are in reality going nowhere and neither are the Braves. This season is pretty much going down the crapper with no end to the misery in sight. Most of us can agree that a major overhaul is in order , its just unfortunately the franchise is in the middle of being sold from one multibillion dollar corporate entity to other one. John Scheurhotz is hamstrung either way , he cant start a fire sale or trade for decent players. Chipper wants a crack at the Hall of Fame and he wants to do it as a third baseman , so he obviously wants to stay a brave. Andruw is a different story , he might actually jump at the thought of playing in Yankee pinstripes. Hudson and Renteria are the most tradeable(players) contracts , but Thomson is the only guy that JS has actually tried to trade so far. The best thing that could happen is for this Franchise sale to finalized and done so John Scheurholz can actually do his job.

By Robert

June 16, 2006 02:21 AM | Link to this

“You can’t go 1-6 and gain ground, that’s for sure,” Cox said. “Yeah, it is disappointing.”

Truly the most intelligent Cox quote I have read in years.

For the sake of journalistic accuracy, here is the original untranslated version

“HEE-HAW”, Cox said. “HEE-HAW”

By Head Coach

June 16, 2006 02:47 AM | Link to this

Yes , inside(moron)guy is full of it . No trades , no nothing. Hey I could start a wild rumor , John Rocker was just added to the roster , he’s gonna sit next to Cox and Rock ‘er , back and forth , back and forth John Rocking back and forth , lol.

By Bob, journalist

June 16, 2006 02:56 AM | Link to this

“He’s been great,” Cox said. “I don’t know where we’d be without him.”

By nathan

June 16, 2006 03:43 AM | Link to this

“HEE-HAW”, Cox said. “HEE-HAW”

that’s about the funniest thing i’ve read all night!!!!

Thank you.

Your “Bobby” humor is appreciated!

By Head Coach

June 16, 2006 03:46 AM | Link to this

I just read Ken Rosenthal’s article on the Fox website. If John Scheurholz , Bobby Cox or anyone else in the front office thinks this team has a chance at even a wild card spot……. they are seriously dillusional or incapable of coping with losing.

By Eric C.

June 16, 2006 03:53 AM | Link to this

Sure…the Braves have no choice but to go for the wild card, but I wish they didn’t have eight teams ahead of them.

By Eric C.

June 16, 2006 04:23 AM | Link to this

As bad as the Braves are playing, it’s too early to start unloading…don’t forget last year’s Astros and some of the A’s teams from a few years back. I’m sure Ken Rosenthal is grinning from ear to ear and a lot of other writers are popping champagne corks with each Braves loss…they’ve talked about it enough for the past few years.

I love how the D’backs have tanked…they play like world champs against the Braves and then bend over for the Mets. That 4-game sweep at Turner Field must have led them to believe they could walk on water.

By JasonInMaine

June 16, 2006 06:08 AM | Link to this

Inside Guy,

Seriously, are you just making this stuff up or do you actually have credible information. Quit torturing us with stuff like this unless there is some truth!!

Jason

By berigan

June 16, 2006 06:08 AM | Link to this

Seeing the highlights of the Twins/Redsox game, the Twins would be INSANE to trade Nathan! He made Ramirez look bad on 2 A.B.’s If the Twins braintrust is high on crack and do trade him, it would be the best trade J.S. has ever made!

By Carroll

June 16, 2006 07:15 AM | Link to this

Inside guy: what the HELL do we need with Dave fippin ROberts. SOmebody compared his numbers to Gily the other day, and he would NOT be an improvement as a leadoff hitter, and wouldn’t really do that much for us as a leftfielder over Langy and Diaz. If we do get him, it had better be as a throw-in for a Linebrink or Hoffman deal.

By the way people, as much as I want to believe inside guy, I just can’t. If such a deal (for Nathan) were really “done”, it would already be reported by Bill Shanks. He’s way ahead of the curve on trades and rumors.

By JasonInMaine

June 16, 2006 07:31 AM | Link to this

I will admit that when I heard that Giles had been a late scratch I thought he had been traded. But, I find it hard to believe that no other site (ESPN, Pro Sports Daily MLB Rumors, Sportsline, etc) have even mentioned the Braves or any possible trade. I am not holding my breath for a big trade.

By Cleanuphitter16

June 16, 2006 07:54 AM | Link to this

Crawford is probably too good to be true. Check out these lines:

Frenchy: .248/14/47 through 278 AB. K/BB: 55/4, SB: 0, FPCT: .955, 21 years old.

Crawford: .302/8/31 through 242 AB K/BB: 26/16, SB: 21, FPCT: .982, 24 years old.

Didn’t factor in RBI or Runs because those are just as much a product of the surrounding lineup as the player (though Crawford has a significant lead in runs as well thanks to those 21 steals and 16 walks.)

The only solo stat Frenchy wins is slugging %. And Frenchy would arguably be one of our best trading chips…if he were being made available, which, I assume, he isn’t.

This leads me to believe that it would literally take the farm (system) to acquire Crawford right now.

By KneeJerk

June 16, 2006 07:58 AM | Link to this

Robert, I was taught not to call names unless I would do it to someone’s face. I’m guessing if you had the face to face opportunity to confront Cox, you wouldn’t say a $^%^$^ word.

By JasonInMaine

June 16, 2006 07:58 AM | Link to this

I doubt they make a move to try and win this year. Why would they? This team sucks. I would still try and trade Giles. Maybe they can trade someone like a Hudson and get the team to take Hampton’s contract as well…call up Cashman!

By Dave

June 16, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

Ladies and Gentlemen:

The STREAK had to end SOME time. The Braves have had several years of unbelievable luck. EXAMPLES:

1999, when Chipper Jones had his MVP year by singlehandedly savaging the NY Mets, the Braves’ top competitor, during the regular season and then Eddie Perez almost singlehandedly beat the Mets during the NLCS.

2002, when the Braves had possibly the worst offensive team in baseball, yet somehow converted a bunch of journeyman relievers into the best bullpen in baseball.

2003, when the bullpen returned to normal pitching levels, and the starting pitching shoed that they in fact were human, but then every position player had career years at the plate and the Braves bludgeoned their opponents to death.

2005, when Mondesi did not work out and Estrada got hurt, but every rookie the Braves called up came through BIG in the clutch.

Despite a strict budget, the loss to free agency of a strong-armed shortstop who was the lead-off man and the concentration of most of the salary structure on five players (A Jone, C Jones, Smoltz, Hudson and Hampton, who is not even playing this year), the Braves have a young, deep talented team on the field and a very productive farm system.

Schurholz and Cox cannot and will not trade away these great young players for rent-a-players to try to salvage this season. A 13-game deficit just may be too deep a hole to recover from.

If, at the end of June, the deficit has not been reduced to about 8 games, they should jettison the over-the-hill veterans (Jordon, Pratt, Remlinger) and bring up the youngsters to give them a taste of life in the major leagues and see how they perform.

If they can address some of the pitching problems with strategic trades, then do it, but only for pitching that will STILL BE HERE next year.

Just my humble opinion!

By Dirty Dawg

June 16, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this

I certainly don’t know if the discussion of Giles actually being traded are accurate, but it would explain why Bobby has kept him in the lineup over Betemit these past few days…trying to get him to show something for the scouts…showcaseing, as it were…He did have a couple of hits the other night, including the HR, so that might have been the catalyst. Hate to see the kid go, but…

By Mets Stink

June 16, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this

Some have speculated that Inside Guy was DOB in disguise, but DOB posted under his name in this blog. I think Inside Guy is full of it.

By Blake

June 16, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

I guess we will see, he said Giles wont play against Boston.

By Cleanuphitter16

June 16, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

You mean showcasing Wilson? It has looked that way lately. And doing it at a 3rd infield position increases his potential value in a trade. A lot of teams would like a high average, switch-hitting, 3B/SS/2B player with some pop in their bat. Oh and he doesn’t cost much either.

Giles, on the other hand, costs a LOT more, doesn’t have the arm for 3B, doesn’t switch-hit, and has apparently lost his power-swing. He does, however, have a successful (though somewhat short) Major League track record.

I wonder who teams are more interested in right now…Betemit or Giles. I just hope a Betemit for Roberto Hernández trade…or something along those lines…doesn’t show up on the wire this weekend. The Braves do seem to like aging veterans and he DOES have a 2.12 ERA going into today LoL. Hopefully JS keeps a more level head than some of us fans have and doesn’t overpay to the extreme for ANYONE.

By Mets Stink

June 16, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this

It would be foolish to trade Betemit. The braves have kept him this long and now it seems that he’s finally hit his stride. I’d love to see him in a braves uniform the next 10 years.

By Brent

June 16, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

I think it’s silly to call Braves’ fans spoiled. I think everybody complains when their team loses. It’s just natural.

When we win, we are happy.

Over-all, I am still happy with the body of work over the last 15 + seasons, and the continual re-working of this team over that time, gives me confidence that it will successfully be re-worked again.

If not this year, then in the off-season and next year.

In the meantime, Go Braves! and Go Oilers!

By Kent

June 16, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

Well, the good news is that the Braves will be in good shape to turn things around next year. Mike Hampton, and Blaine Boyer should both be healthy which will be a big boost for the pitching staff. Also, none of the Braves core players are eligible for free agency until at least the end of 2007 (except for Christ Reitsma)… but I think we’ll find a way to replace him.

With the almost certain departure of Jorge Sosa, Christ Reitsma, John Thompson, and Marcus Giles (via trade-in exchange for pitching), and front end payroll consessions by Tim Hudson, the Braves payroll should actually be a little lower next year than it is this season, hopefully allowing the Braves to ad a relief pitcher or two in the off season.

We’ll still have our big guns, and our kids: Mcann, Franceour, and some good looking talent on the farm.

2006 isn’t looking so good, but 2007 is very promising.

By Brent

June 16, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this

Kent,

I think the problem we run into next season, is that we have to pay Hampton’s salary next year - and it’s huge.

The rumor is that insurance is on the hook for about 80% of it this yeawr.

By Mets Stink

June 16, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this

Hampton will come back next year only to get hurt around june or july.

By Blaster

June 16, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

Can you imagine all the cringing players in baseball that are dreading that call to the manager’s office to be told “pack up, you’ve just been traded to the Braves”. Ah, the agony!

By JOHN B.

June 16, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

Brent,

The Braves split Hampton’s total salary over the 6 years. So instead of 14 million next year, it will only count 8 million towards the payroll. When the Braves traded for him, they had to pay him roughly 48 million over the 6 years left on his contract. (roughly 7 million over the first 3 years and 41 million over the final 3) And it would not surprise me if they took the insurance money and split that up for the remaining years.

By JOHN B.

June 16, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

The Braves split Hampton’s total salary over the 6 years for payroll purposes only.

By A Nobody

June 16, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

The one I feel sorry for is Edgar Renteria. I think he thought he was signing on to a winning ball club, not one with a 90 degree glide angle. But he keeps on doing his best and I repsect him for that.

By Cleanuphitter16

June 16, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

You know what I’d like to see this weekend? I’ll tell you: 1) I would LOVE to see Bobby, Roger, Pat and the rest turn those hats inside out in the 1st inning and wear rally-caps the whole game with smiles on their faces. Bobby Cox would coach 1B, Roger would coach 3rd.

2) I’d like to see the lineup like this, just for one game:

1B - Betemit. We all know he could play it. 2B - Edgar…yes, Edgar 3B - Chipper (only because he’d probably break anywhere else or refuse to move) SS - Giles. No, seriously. LF - Move Frenchy over for a game CF - Andruw .. just cuz he deserves the honor and has earned it. RF - Langy … if healthy. If not, Jordan. C - McCann, and then give Orr an inning late if it isnt close. SP - Chuck James to start, followed by a pre-planned drawing of straws in the ‘pen for 1 inning each after James. If its a blowout, let LaRoche pitch an inning like he’s said he wants do one day. If he gets hurt, big deal. Betemit should be there anyway, right? lol

The point? It would be fun. Risk of injury? Not much… despite what their agents might say, moving from SS to 2B for one game isn’t a risk. Chance of errors? Decent, but would that be different from things now?

The press would be all over it in an amused way probably. And the players might actually get out there and laugh a bit…kid around…and mainly, LOOSEN UP!

That brings us to batting order. I’d like to see this for a day. Just one single day:

1: Frenchy - Tell him hes now a leadoff man and needs to act like one at the plate. That means working counts and going the other way. Draw a walk for gods sake! Be patient. 2: Edgar. It’s where he belongs. 3: Andruw. If he strikes out, move on to the best hitter on this team which is…. 4: McCann. He’ll drive em in. 5: Betemit. Its time he got a little respect and his gap doubles could get McCann in from 1st. 6. Giles. Take some heat off the poor guy and give him back an RBI role like hes used to. 7. Chipper - Yeah, he won’t like it. But if hes the team player he says he is, he’d do it and give Giles some lineup protection and still be in a great RBI position. 8. Pitchers Spot. Make Chipper look at the on deck circle and realize he has to drive em in NOW. No half-assed swings. No loafing down the line. Get the *$&% job DONE! Be clutch man! 9. Langy - Tell him hes the 2nd lead-off man. Scratch, steal, whatever it takes, just GET ON BASE for Betemit to drive in with yet another double.

Just one day. One single day I would like to see this. If you think its a stupid idea, thats fine. Maybe it is. But I do also think they might just get out there and have fun for a day. If they lose, fine. Go back to the daily grind and lose 14 more games this month. But what if they won? How fun would that be? And what kind of boost would it give a bitter and angry team?

By A Nobody

June 16, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

CleanUP, that sounds like the most FUN idea I’ve heard lately! Sure wish the Braves would think outside the box like that. I remember way back that even Bruce Benedict ‘managed’ a game once.

By Woodrow

June 16, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

Not to make excuses for this patheic showing this year by the Braves, but… I felt pretty good about the bullpen coming out of Spring Training. I wonder how we would have faired if Boyer, Foster, McBride, and Devine had all started the season healthy and perfomred to a level at least meeting their expectations. I think things would have been different. Woulda, coulda, shoulda…

By The Captain

June 16, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

As much as I want to believe Inside Guy because that trade would be amazing, it simply doesn’t make sense. The Twins already have Luis Castillo at second, who last I checked, is pretty darn good. He’s hitting .290 so not like he’s having a down year. And the Twins are gaining some momentum now and I find it highly unlikely they’d trade away one of the best closers in the game now that they’re actually winning. Only place Giles would fit is at DH, and he’s not the kind of hitter most teams look for in a DH. I hope I’m wrong about this, but I just don’t see why the Twins would make such a deal. Plus, we’re going on 10:30 east coast time. Chances are any press release would have been announced by now for a trade of that magnitude.

By JasonInMaine

June 16, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this

Of course there is no trade like that to announce. He is just trying to get people going. If there were anything of that significance, someone else would have sniffed it out by now.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

Not even a realistic “trade” either. 2 struggling major leaguers for a dominant closer? I don’t think so.

By Adam

June 16, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

Inside Guy is clearly full of it. No way the Twins make that deal. With the number of teams out there desperate for a closer or bulloen help, you really think Giles & Sosa is the best they could do? And the Twins aren’t big-spenders. They’d never import two players who’ll make $5-$7 mil each next season. Much as we’d all like it to be true, “Inside Guy” is clearly no one in the know.

I do find it interesting, however, that we had one post from “Inside Source”, about a Giles for Hillenbrand trade. That deal doesn’t inspire me, but seems much more realistic. I suspect “Inside Source” may actually be in the know, or may be DOB, but “Inside Guy” sure isn’t.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

If acquired, Hillenbrand should be the everyday 1st baseman. He hits lefties and righties well.

By Hal

June 16, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

I watched 3 games yesterday in game(a) a team lead off an inning with a double ..perfect sacrifice fly ball ..1-0 team a

In Game(b) team lead off inning with two walks ,bunt error TWO runs

in Game (c) team lead off inning with double ,Pop to third, strike out ,strike out

Pick the Braves game from above ohhh wait ill make it easier teams A and B won

By ernesto

June 16, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Okay, here’s my new line of thinking - every player has highs and lows throughout the season - that’s just baseball. So EVERY SINGLE ONE of our players is in a slump at the exact same time, so they will all snap out of it at the same time. Then look out!

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

The Braves have played down to the level of their opponents all year (remember struggling to beat the Cubs and Marlins in May?). Maybe they’ll “rise to the occasion” against the AL East since most pundits are predicting the Braves will be clobbered.

By Riley Martin

June 16, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

The good journalist fails to take into consideration the fact that the baby seal has excellent defensive skills and always gives 110% and things of this nature. JS would be very intellegent to make a move for baby seal.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

Regarding 2007 payroll: if the Braves don’t exercise Smoltz’s option next year that frees up millions that could be spent on pitching. I know Smoltz rules and all, but Hampton is going to cost enough next year. Rotation: Hudson, Hampton, Davies, James, and ????? We could find a 5th starter.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

Oh, I forgot F****** Ramirez in the rotation. 3 lefties.

By I think with a drawl

June 16, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

Big series this weekend. The Bravos are true, tested champs. It always seems that teams like these need a real challenge. Not from within a division they have dominated well over a decade, but from a team like the mighty Bo Sox or Yankees.

Time to turn it around fellas.

Bring back the chop. TONIGHT!

-See y’all @ the Ted.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe it blocked out F-e-l-l-a-t-i-o Ramirez.

By ernesto

June 16, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

by the way I hope inside guy is full of it, b/c I don’t want Dave Roberts and his crappy arm in the outfield. I still think Giles will come around. Thinking WB will stay on this tear at the plate, is a little like thinking Sosa was going to pitch this year like he did last year. It could happen, but history gives you pause.

By KneeJerk

June 16, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

If you believe the “Inside Guy”, I’ve got oceanfront property in Oklahoma to sell you. First he said we were trading Giles to Houston. Seems to me an astros icon and future HOFer mans 2nd base there. Then, we are trading Giles to Minnesota, who just acquired Castillo this past year. I know we want to believe that a trade is imminent, but at least make sure it makes sense.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

Plus, Dave Roberts is 97 years old.

By Phat Bat Boy

June 16, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

SMOLTZ for ZUMAYA.

By Not Giving Up

June 16, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

I am not giving up, not now, not tomorrow not ever.I love this team for the good times and the bad times. I am going to support my Braves no matter what..That’s a promise. I urge you true fans to do the same… Be a fan please..THIS IS NOT FUNNY ANYMORE…GO BRAVES..

By Blake

June 16, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

Not picking up Smoltz’s option next year is the dumbest idea of all

By Blake

June 16, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

By spend on pitching, please try and find someone that will be available that is even half of the pitcher that Smoltz is for 8 million.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Blake, he’ll be making over $10 million and he’ll be 40. I don’t think Smoltz starting every 5 days will make the difference in 2007 if the bullpen still sucks.

By I think with a drawl

June 16, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

The Nats, according to the Washington Post, are just about ready to field offers for Soriano.

His next stop should be Hartsfield-Jackson!!!

By Donkey

June 16, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

I think with a drawl—-Me don’t think you’s thinks at all!—-Hee!..Hee!..Hee!..Hee!..HAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!……..

By Blake

June 16, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

You are right, he wont solve the whole problem but are you comfortable with HoRAm, James and Davies, and Hampton coming back making up the rotation?

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

Pujols will be a Brave before Soriano…he’ll probably end up in New York (the Bronx or Flushing)

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

Not really, but I think in time Davies and James will be solid…we’ve got to look beyond 06 and 07. Horacio is way too inconsistent for me and Hampton will be gone after next year (more money available for pitching in 2008)

By I think with a drawl

June 16, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Soriano is a monster leadoff hitter. Exactly what we need, or someone similar. As far as pitching goes, I think we would be fine if Leo was still rockin’ @ the Ted instead of Camden.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

Cormier has been starting at AAA and might start tomorrow if Ramirez can’t go. James could be brought up Sunday to take Thomson’s spot Tuesday night vs. Toronto

By krath

June 16, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

I keep hearing sportswriters and TV commentators (like Skip said last night) say that no one is eager or willing to help the Braves through the trade route. I find this assumption idiotic at best! These guys act like it’s a conspiracy by every other team in baseball to get back at the Braves for their past success. The bottom line is that NO team is going to scuttle a potential trade for a player that will help their situation just cause the trade partner is the Braves. On the other hand, JS can’t expect to get quality help by pawning off some mid level minor leaguer either. If the target player for the Braves is a Willis-type or Crawford-type, you can expect to give up Salty and/or a few other prospects of note. The fact is that until these guys hit the “bigs” they are just prospects. It may even be necessary to give up someone on the active roster for some help. If/when the Giles trade takes place, I don’t expect much in return. Maybe some mid level bullpen help. The Giles deal would probably be only insuring you get something for a guy who is going to be a free agent after the season and won’t be back. It also gets Betemit some playing time. He definitely looks like a productive and affordable solution at second.

Another thing the Braves have to do via the trade route is to be sure whoever they may pick up can be part of the big picture for next year and even beyond. It would be a shame to give up top prospects for a player who will not or may not be around or affordable for at least a couple more years. We need to face the fact that even the wild card is a long shot this year. Can’t give away top prospects for a rent-a-player when the odds of even making the playoffs are slim-none.

But if I feel the odds of making the playoffs are slim, why the rush to trade now?

1.As it gets closer to the July trading deadline, the Braves will be in competition with everyone who has a chance to make the playoffs. It will be a crazy bidding war for even mediocre talent.
2.Its important the Braves right the ship now. Even if they don’t make the playoffs this year, it will be easier for the players to go through the winter knowing that the tools are in place for next season to make another run at a championship. Fix it now and finish strong to build momentum for next season even though this season seems to be lost. If they finish with a whimper by not upgrading their situation, the players will spend a winter of doubting themselves….which leads to the next statement:

It takes years to build a winning tradition, it doesn’t take years to lose it.

Who knows, this may be a blessing in disguise. Maybe the Braves can build a team to win it all instead of playing it close to the vest just trying to make the playoffs again.

By The Captain

June 16, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Drawl, Leo ain’t doing so hot in Camden. They have one of the worst ERAs, and the word out of Baltimore is the management is growing impatient with him already. They just promoted their top minor league pitching coach to be the team’s bullpen coach. So I’m not sure even he could have fixed the pitching woes we’ve had this year.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

I don’t know if Leo could fix our problem; Roger McDowell will improve, but right now I think the players consider him “one of the boys,” which isn’t good. We all loved that “cool” teacher in school who let us get away with stuff, but we didn’t learn anything either.

By David O'Brien

June 16, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

Glass half full, Blake was right about Smoltz: Option for next year is $8 mill. Don’t know where you and others keep coming up with $10-11 mill.

For those curious, there’s a reason I haven’t written anything about “Inside Guy” and “Inside Source” trade rumors _ because I haven’t heard anything from anyone credible giving any credence to anything they’ve said. Hey, if they’re right, then they have great sources. But I think someone said it best earlier in this blog chain _ Sometimes the “inside info” from these would-be journalists is simply the google panel in the corner of their screen. Pretty weak.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

When you’re starting catcher is 22 and cheap, why hold onto a 20 year old catcher at AA hitting .200? Sure, he could become a 1st baseman, but what about LaRoche, Jurries, and Thorman?

By ernesto

June 16, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

Giving up Salty is idiotic. I’m tired of watching guys go on to be stars for other teams while we rent a player ofr a year. What’s worse say out of desperation we pull off a really sweet deal like the Estrada for Villareal and Cormier.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

Hey, $8 mill goes along way towards a couple of young arms. Thanks for the correction, though.

By David O'Brien

June 16, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

Krath, Giles isn’t a free agent after the season. Just arbitration-eligible again.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

How has Cormier done at Richmond and why isn’t Villareal on his way down to the farm?

By ernesto

June 16, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB I didn’t catch Letterman last night, how is our girl Kelly looking these days? I saw a picture a while back and she was on the “voluptuous” side of voluptuous…to put it gently.

By krath

June 16, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

I agree totally with GHF. If Salty can bring something in trade with value, why not? Last time I checked, you can only play one catcher at a time and we have as GHF said,”22 and cheap”, not to mention hitting over .350.

Getting something of value in trade is not”giving up” on someone. It’s using their value to better your own lot.

By inside guy

June 16, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Listen guys. I posted two messages Thursday night with comments to Glass Half Full and Postal somebody…Anything else under the name inside guy, I can’t claim. All I said was that from my sources, which I rely on for my information, that there was a “very good chance,” that two deals would be pulled off by today and that one would “almost certainly,” involve Marcus Giles. The Dave Roberts thing, Shea Hillanbrand and all that…I have no clue. Maybe it is full of smoke, but reading what you guys were saying late Thursday, I felt I could brighten your mood a bit with some good news that I was hearing. I guess thats what you get with using an anynomous name. Sorry. Disregard anything else under this name.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Well, the whole rent-a-player is management’s fault. If possible, trades should be made for guys under contract for awhile. I know that’s easier said than done, but I think any team should want to win now and in the coming seasons.

By Blake

June 16, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

Young arms, yea, but remember most young good arms are locked up unitl they have 6 years of service. So, where do the young arms come from? Outside the Braves organization? No, so If they are in the organization then Smoltz’s salary wont affect the franchise keeping them. Not trying to be a jerk but that logic makes no sense to me.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Granted my GM experience is limited to MLB 06: The Show.

By ernesto

June 16, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this

All I’m saying is that dependable bullpen arms don’t seem to be aplenty right now…at least not ones people are looking to deal. so don’t let the June Swoon drive a desperation deal that could ultimately hurt the franchise down the road. and the whole 2 catchers thing? I remember a lot of people saying we had too much starting pitching…ain’t nobody saying that now.

By krath

June 16, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Thanks DOB… I stand corrected. I have been operating under the assumption he was a free agent after the season.

I know his numbers are not good, but with recent history of how arbitration has gone for players, I wonder if the Braves are prepared to pay him what he will bring? (even with subpar numbers… won’t his last years performance figure into arbitration…he did hit .300) If they decline arbitration he will become a FA? Correct?

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

I understand, but I think we’re all sentimental about Smoltz because he’s the last of the 1991 gang…same with TP.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Well, our pitchers are in St. Louis, Milwaukee, and Detroit (Roman Colon, anyone?)

By JasonInMaine

June 16, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Great to have you back on the blog. What are your thoughts about the Braves and potential moves? I am sure you haven’t heard any names or you would have mentioned it, but do you think they will try to unload any contracts and get near major league ready talent, be buyers, or stand pat. They should try and unload Hampton’s contract with someone else’s ala Lowell with the Beckett trade.

By TennesseePaul

June 16, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

I think this team doesn’t have as many holes as it appears to have. Recently, the starting pitching has been fine. There have been a few hick-ups, I’ll grant that. It’s been the Bullpen and the Hitting. And the pen just improved when Reitsma went to the DL. Stockman was solid last night. I have high hopes for that guy. I think all that’s needed is a leadoff hitter in Left Field. We could bring Thorman up from the minors to play first. That’s couldn’t be any worse than Jordan. I actually think it would be better because of the defensive side of the equation. So it wouldn’t work with a platoon… well, I can’t imagine Thorman is that awful against a southpaw. I think a few more rookies could be brought up to fill out that bench. Orr is useless. He’s fast, but that’s it. That’s the only tool in his shed. Jordan has no tools left, or, what tools he has left are dull and rusted through.
Chuck James is going to come into the rotation. He was pitching on Thomson’s schedule, so he was slated to take his spot. With Thomson back on the DL for a few weeks, we get a cushion to see how it works out. If James comes in gunning, Thomson will be on the block. Thomson, Giles, LaRoche, Orr, and Jordan ought to be good enough to get enough batting practice balls for Terry to actually sit down and work with his hitters. Or they could get a fast guy with good OBP.
I’m just not sold on the “We’re done” meal. I think there’s still a strong chance. It isn’t going to be easy and a lot of guys are going to have to play some fundamental baseball, but it’s doable.
We face TB and Baltimore in the next two weeks. If we can play .500 ball though the top of the AL East and sweep the bottom, we could be a few more games up. First things first though, we gotta get back to .500.

I keep hoping that all of this is just the rest of the seasons losses, all bunched into the early middle season. that from here on out we win every game. I wanna see Chipper put this team on his shoulders. I wanna see Andruw do that as well. I wanna see these vets that have won for the past 10 years come out there and show these young guys how to pick a team up. How to turn it up a notch. How to win.

By David

June 16, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

The Braves are finished. The consecutive divsion streak will be over soon. I will be glad when the season is over and I can go back to cleaning out toilets for a living. That job is a lot more exciting than watching the Braves—a team that seems to get flushed down the toilet every night! I tell you, I am so sick of the Atlanta team that I just want to throw up. Those lazy prima donas (did you see Chipper’s lazy effort the other night—if he had just tried just a little harder on that play and just put out a little more effort, the Braves may have won that game). Now the Braves losing streak is like a snowball rolling down a hill; you couldn’t stop it even if you wanted to! And then, what about the rest of those lazy aud uninspired Atlanta Braves masquerading as professionals. The Braves don’t as much as resemble a pee-wee league baseball team. Truth be told, the Braves couldn’t beat the little sisters of the poor right about now. The Braves would get dusted from an imaginary team right about now. I can’t watch the Braves any more; my health is at risk —- and I think that a few more losses out of the Braves will probably cause me to have a stroke and start pushing up daiseys. I’ll probably have a heart attack and collapse if I watch another Braves game—so I am calling it quits. I’m done.

By Riley Martin

June 16, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

This Donkey stuff is ridiculous. Other than the good journalist jimmy smith, DOB and a few others most of the people on this blog are raging lunitics with total disregard for reality and things of this nature.

Trade Rumor alert JS has been in constant contact with the agent of baby seal. My sources indicate a very nice offer has been made and is on baby seals desk for approval.

By Brent

June 16, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

I think “Blake” and “DOB” were separated at birth ;).

By Patrick

June 16, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I heard that the cubs are ready to ship us Pierre, Ohman and Williamson for Giles and Langerhans. Heard this one yet?

By PENN

June 16, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves can forget about getting Wainwright back. The Card site says they are planning to move him into their rotation next year. Why would they let him go for Giles?

It does look to this ole game watcher that the Braves are done for this year, even for a wild card although a miracle is possible. Time to start getting rebuilt for next year.

DOB, you do good work. I live in South Florida and down here all we hear are negatives about a new stadium. One could have been built in Miami if the state had kicked in $50 million and the legislature turned that down in record time.

The mayor of Hialeah is trying to get something started but he’s whistling Dixie.

Look for the Marlins to be in (my guess) San Antonio next year or soon after that.

I don’t see Las Vegas as a major league town in any sports. Most of their people are either transient or they are working in a hotel or casino. They don’t have time to go to any kind of ball game. Anyone moving a team to Vegas is dumb as a rock.

I think there is also a very good chance the Marlins will hang onto both Willis and Cabrera to form the nucleus for their future team. Cabrera is Pujolz Light. That kid plays like a veteran and he just turned 23. He’s hitting .339, 5th in the NL.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal has an interesting article about the Braves on Fox Sports. It seems the padres wanted Betemit for Linebrink.

By ron

June 16, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

PATHETIC!!

By ron

June 16, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

PATHETIC !!!

By Skip

June 16, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

When you don’t PAY your players….this is what happens! Yeah, the Braves have the 8th. highest payroll in the league, but they have a concept of getting rid of the players that they really need. Unfortunately, it has caught up with them. This means that you are stuck with young, overachieving players who have plenty of potential. The problem is when they underachieve….and reality sets in!

By David O'Brien

June 16, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

Haven’t heard the Pierre/Ohman/Williamson for Giles/Langerhans rumor. While Williamson would obviously help in a big way in the ‘pen, Pierre is dreadful and it would shock me if Braves took him. They don’t like him at all, and that’s based on multiple comments I’ve heard from important Braves people. He’s a shadow of his former self _ can’t hit, can’t throw, and has never had any power, which is fine if you’re getting on base a lot, which he’s not. Other than that, he’s a solid player (wink). Folks, he’s just bad

By Adam

June 16, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

DOB: Asking purely for your opinion here - and for those who would read into it, I stress again that this is just AN OPINION, but if you were the Braves brass, would you trade away some vets and retool for next year or ‘08? If so, who would you trade?

By David O'Brien

June 16, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

Ernesto, she’s on the good side of it now.

By nathan

June 16, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

DOB

what’s the scoop on Thorman?

Can he play the outfield? If he can, why isn’t he up here?

I going to assume that Langerhans has “options” left. And I’ll assume that JS doesn’t want to “waste” any of Thormans options, and that’s why he hasn’t been called up, as opposed to Bobby’s “loyalty” to players already on the roster.

Because as far as I’m concerned (and I understand you think I’m a little wacky), if Thorman can play both OF & 1B, he could allow us to send down Langerhans and release Jordan. I realize Jordan is the “righthanded” half of the platoon, but to me the purpose of a platoon is to give your team the advantage in the “righy/lefty” matchup. Well folks, Jordan aint giving us any advantage ANYWHERE! So time to say adios.

I don’t have all the breakdown on Thorman’s stats. Does he hit lefties as well as righties? If he does why not give him a shot at being the everyday 1B? We could always have LaRoche to PH and bring in for late inning defense.

I did read somewhere (Foxsports.com ?) that the braves were checking out Shealy (Rockies AAA 1B). I just got back from a trip to Co Springs and went to 3 Sky Sox games. That guy looks really good at 1B, he’s right handed and he aint being called up to the Rockies any time soon with Helton in place. He might be worth a look.

Thoughts DOB?

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

langerhans has no options; that’s why he made the roster last year

By brandnew

June 16, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

Glass - Rosenthal says that the Padres came asking about Betemit, but WE asked for Linebrink, and they balked at the idea.

By ernesto

June 16, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the update DOB,I’ll put her back in my fantasy league.

By Matt

June 16, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

Ouch, swept by the fish. Good news, I think everyone knows, this team is not as bad as their current “play” is reflecting. But I’ll tell you what, if there is even a distant hope at compeating for the wild card, the Braves need a brawl. One of those season changing, a* igniting brawls that will change the outlook of this team and possibly the outcome of the season. Hey, it worked for the ‘Stros last year. So for the good of the team, the fans and the city, go out there tonight and pick a damn fight Huddy.

By nathan

June 16, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

GHF

thank you for the info, i had forgotten that.

By Hal

June 16, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

People freakin amaze me Give up Salty to land Willis blah blah blah blah Does anyone actually think the Marlins might take a guy hitting .220 at Double A for a proven top of the rotation guy?

The Marlins as they sit right now have better major league talent then the braves ,younger and less expensive too

Giles To the twins??? there second baseman nows hitting about 50 points higher and his obp makes Giles look sick ohhhhhh sure they will just throw Joe Nathan our way even though they have no one to replace him

Onlt trade ive seen that makes even marginal sence is the Giles for Hildebrand Toronto can and will take on contract money and they have three guys already capable of playing third Hildebrand,Glaus and Hinske

By ernesto

June 16, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Ummm, I’ve seen bags of laundry that weigh more than Huddy, …We’ll have to bring in Paronto or Stockman.

By ernesto

June 16, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

Who wants Hildebrand? he’s okay, but he’s not going to turn this thing around…I’d rather stick with Adam and keep Giles.

By Hal

June 16, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Ernestio Agreed Hildebrand isent the answer eather im just saying at least that trade is doable ,all this other crap getting thrown around is a pipe dream you have to have something some one wants to make a trade usually equal value for equal value Not a guy doing zilch at double A for a major league star

By adster500

June 16, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

Before you ignorant brave fans take potshots at the mets and their payroll and how much money they spend, just realize that the mets’ payroll this year is $101 million and the Braves’ payroll is $90 million (ESPN.com has the numbers). Do the math- that’s $10-11 million which in this market, equates to maybe 1 very good/ all-star type-player. The best player on their team, David Wright, makes $347,000. SO its not like the braves are the royals and don’t spend at all and the Mets are BUYING their way to a division crown.

At least know the facts before you make ridiculous comments and constant references to $$$ in your demeaning of the Mets when the reality is the Braves have a competitive payroll as well.

But then again, I should’t expect much from a fan base that is utterly spoiled and won’t even sell out their playoff games. Don’t worry, it won’t be a problem this year. The lights will be turned off at Turner Field come october!! GO METS!!

By krath

June 16, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

It would take more than Salty for Willis. It would take multiple prospects or even more… provided Willis could be pried away. The Marlins are doing it with a 15 mil payroll…Willis is making a bit over 4 Mil. Although Willis may not be availible since the Marlins are actually starting to win, it’s not a pipe dream to think a deal for him would be impossible. Pipe dreams are the deals that are totally unrealistic for the Braves due to salary demands (Soriano) or obvious inequity of the deal to be done.(Giles for Brandon Webb)

I don’t have all the insider info that some here claim to have (with the exception of DOB who does have that info sometimes) but I can read and I know Willis had been publicly dangled from time to time since mid season last year. IF….(and its a big if) the Marlins were to trade Willis, it would not be for veteran material. Fla wants prospects and the Braves have as many good prospects in their system as anyone. Plus he has an affordable contract.

Willis to the Braves probably won’t happen but it shouldn’t be considered pipe dream stuff even though there is a lot of that goes on here.

By ernesto

June 16, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

adster500, it’s always funny to me when someone calls everyone an idiot and then messes up his fact. Good job. Well played.

By BCidiot

June 16, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

You know, Remlinger was not helped by Chipper’s suspect defense at third the other night, but Remmy threw wild if you look at the proper replay. You can’t fault Chipper for wanting to hold the bag to be able to make a play. Rem gunned it over there at close range! I’ve seen alot of Remlinger in the past years and I seem to remember him throwing wildly to third at LEAST two other times in critical situations. I have seen enough of Remlinger to last a lifetime thank you very much.

By Glass Half Full

June 16, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Taking 2 out of 3 from Boston would help this team’s confidence tremendously. Difficult? Yes. Can it be done? Absolutely.

By Postal Joe

June 16, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

adster500, the braves aren’t paying 90 mil. the redsox pickup 30% of renteria’s salary. the rockies picked up part of hamptons’s salary which got bistro-mathed to 8 mill per year via amortizationalization. if you’ve never heard of bistro math, then google douglas adams. amortizationalism is rationalization by accountants. realistically, the braves have about an 80 mill payroll. the mutz have 100 mill. that means that the mets are paying 25% more than the Braves for their payroll. significant, don’t you think.

And as for not selling out the playoffs, New York has more people in the five buroughs than georgia has in its state limits.

eat fecal matter and die you worthless fairweather mutz fan. you will always be a second banana sucker to the yankees anyway.

By journalist jimmy smith

June 16, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

dob strikes a nerve with his comment about “would-be journalists”. it is hoped that dob only makes reference to “insider” type bloggers and not to esteemed journalists doing journalism on this blog every day. now, to the blogger who wishes to sign baby seal. baby seal is self-conscious about how he looks with his socks worn high like “p” player pete orr. baby seal is as fast as orr going down the line, fields his position nicely, has good bat control, and will drive the ball to the gap. will he play for this team of rag-tags? baby seal says he will play if the following changes are made:

betemit,2b;babyseal,1b;renteria,ss;mccann,c; andruw,c;chipper,3b;diaz,lf,francoeur,rf.

By coachkeith

June 16, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

the only trade that needs to happen is trade bobby cox. He has had the best organization of any sport and can’t seem to figure out how to manage the close ones,quit worrying about feelings and get guys in there with some heart. This team still hads talent but has lost its characater oh they really never had it when it counted,get us an owner that wants a winner not a tax write off

By Bw

June 16, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

Anyone here have extra tickets for Saturday afternoon? Preferably in the outfield.

By glennbo

June 16, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

jimmy, i think you fit the bill of would-be-journalist to a tee.

By adster500

June 16, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

postal joe, i know it may be REALLY HARD for you, but let’s at least TRY to be a bit classy and refrain from comments like “eat fecal matter” and “die fairweather Met fan.” Doesn’t really add anything. But i don’t know, maybe you can’t help yourself.

your point on the braves’ payroll being 80 million is a fair one. The two other teams in the league with roughly 80 million payrolls are the Tigers and Cardinals and the last I checked, both teams were in 1st place. So its not just about money. And money doesnt guarantee you anything. The Mets themselves went on a spending spree in the early ’90s when the signed bonilla, coleman, murray and they were a bust. Same deal back in ‘02 when they traded for vaughn, alomar, signed burnitz and they stunk! Bottom line: - 1-money doesnt guarantee winning 2- The entire last decade, the braves spent less than the Mets and still consistently won titles (a credit to their organization). Now this year where it appears the tide has turned and NOW the brave fans are crying about payroll?? Not fair.

Second, don’t give me the excuse that Atlanta is such a small place, that its not possible to sell out playoff games. That’s utterly lame! Houston sold out playoff games. The twins sold out playoff games and these cities dont have 8 million people either like NYC. Bottom line- YOUR fan base is a bunch of spoiled , fairweathered front-runners!!

By Braves Fan in Texas

June 16, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

It’s time for some drastic changes. The Braves have a perfect lead off man and his name is Chipper Jones. His on base pct. is always high and I’d like to see the opposing pitcher’s face when he leads of the game or an innning. Moreover, I’d like to see him get 5 ABs a game. Betemit could play second and take Chipper’s place in the 3 hole; he has as much power as oft-injured Chipper now has.

Diaz needs to play every day until he shows that he can’t get on base consistently and Thorman needs to replace LaRoche at first.

Giles is the odd man out becaue he’s on the last year of his contract and there are quite a few teams that would welcome having him in their lineup: St Louis and San Diego immediately come to mind and they have relievers to spare.

James needs to replace Sosa in the starting rotation and Sosa moves to the bullpen. Thomson needs to be traded to the Rangers for Benoit, and Jordan and Pratt need to be relased. Pena will become McCann’s backup. Davis will replace thomson in the rotation.

I will never give up on the Braves, but honesty compels me to admit that they are not going to win the division or wild card this year. Therefore, we don’t need to trade any prospects, especially Salty no matter what he’s hitting in the minors. In a year ot two Salty could become the first baseman and be available to catch on occasion or when McCann’s hurt. Let’s not mortgage the future trying to land players who will be gone at season’s end. Keep the faith Braves’ fans. Our time will come again soon and we’ll retake the division from the New York Marlins (yes, I meant to say Marlins). Adios.

By PENN

June 16, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

I’m a Braves fan but according to the informnation here he is right about the payrolls. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=atl

Here is the info to save you a trip over.

Note: Team salaries do not represent full team payroll. Number listed includes current salary for all players currently on the roster.

MLB TEAM PAYROLL (US$) 1. NY Yankees 198,662,180

1. Boston 120,100,524

2. LA Angels 103,625,333

3. Chicago Sox 102,875,667

4. NY Mets 100,901,085

5. LA Dodgers 99,176,950

6. Chicago Cubs 94,841,166

7. Atlanta 92,461,852

8. Houston 92,101,503

9. San Francisco 90,862,064

10. Seattle 87,924,500

11. Philadelphia 87,148,333

12. St. Louis 86,912,217

13. Detroit 82,302,069

14. Baltimore 72,585,712

15. Toronto 71,915,000

16. San Diego 68,897,179

17. Texas 65,129,570

18. Minnesota 63,810,048

19. Washington 63,267,500

20. Oakland 62,322,054

21. Cincinnati 59,162,015

22. Arizona 58,884,226

23. Cleveland 56,795,867

24. Milwaukee 50,540,000

25. Kansas City 47,294,000

26. Pittsburgh 46,867,750

27. Colorado 40,791,000

28. Tampa Bay 35,417,967

29. Florida 14,344,500

By PENN

June 16, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

And here are the Atlanta payroll numbers.

PLAYER SALARY (US$)

1. Mike Hampton 14,475,185

2. Chipper Jones 13,666,667

3. Andruw Jones 13,500,000

4. John Smoltz 11,000,000

5. Edgar Renteria 10,000,000

6. Tim Hudson 6,500,000

7. John Thomson 4,750,000

8. Marcus Giles 3,850,000

9. Chris Reitsma 2,750,000

10. Jorge Sosa 2,200,000

11. Horacio Ramirez 2,200,000

12. Todd Pratt 850,000

13. Mike Remlinger 700,000

14. Brian Jordan 700,000

15. Oscar Villarreal 462,500

16. Adam LaRoche 420,000

17. Jeff Francoeur 384,500

18. John Foster 350,000

19. Wilson Betemit 345,000

20. Ryan Langerhans 345,000

21. Pete Orr 340,000

22. Kelly Johnson 336,000

23. Kyle Davies 333,500

24. Brian McCann 333,500

25. Macay McBride 332,000

26. Matt Diaz 330,000

Total Team Salary: 92,461,852

The argument may well hinge on who is paying Hampton’s salary. If that is being paid 100% by the insurance company that will reduce the total to $77,986,667.

By PENN

June 16, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

Here is a part of an article dated 11-02 which lays out the details of Hampton payout. Both Denver and Miami are finally paid out. It is most complicated. Here is the source: http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2002/11/19/Sports/Trade.Frenzy.Sends.Hampton.To.Atlanta-497738.shtml?sourcedomain=www.dailytexanonline.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com

“Two years ago, Colorado gave Hampton a $121 million, eight-year contract, a record for a pitcher, and the Rockies will wind up paying $49 million of the deal: the $21 million signing bonus, a $6 million salary in 2001, $8.5 million in 2002, the $6 million buyout of his 2009 option, a $1 million payment to the Hampton Foundation, plus payments to Florida of $2 million in 2003, $2 million in 2004 and $2.5 million in 2005.

Florida pays $30 million to Atlanta: $9 million in 2003, $10 million in 2004 and $11 million in 2005.

The Braves are responsible for $48.5 million over six years: $2 million in 2003, $2 million in 2004, $1.5 million in 2005, $13.5 million in 2006, $14.5 million in 2007 and $15 million in 2008.

Florida saves itself about $23 million with the deals, ridding itself of $54 million owed to Johnson and Wilson, but paying $23.5 million of Hampton’s salary, taking on the $6.6 million owed Pierre and becoming responsible for the salary of Spooneybarger, who is likely to make just over $300,000 next year.

Wilson is owed $28 million ($6.5 million in 2003, $9 million in 2004 and $12.5 million in 2005), and Johnson is owed $26 million ($7 million in 2003, $9 million in 2004 and $10 million in 2005).

By Danny

June 16, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

Anyone think and agrees with the fact that bobby cox is OVER killing the pen???? he is pitching the SAME guys EVERY night….remy..ray..ritz…he should just leave one guy to take one for the team instead of using the whole pen in all these loses….by the end of the season…if they make it to the playoffs…their arms WILL be shot…..question…was there a reason Ray came in the 8th inning with a 5 -2 lead the other night??? didn’t get to see the game….but if he is the closer right now…that didn’t make sense…….i’m really not liking BC right now…toooo many bad decision…btw..i still believe they can make it…fck the muts

By Mikeymike

June 16, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

Ok here goes…

Laroche,You can only use the excuse “I’m waiting for him to come out of it, he has really good stuff.” for so long, I think 3 years is enough. Laroche hasnt proved a thing, his laxadazical efforts defensively and his long slow swing are not only boring, but useless at the major league level. Yes he is consistant, but in the negative way such as consistantly keeps his Strike out to at bat ratio atrocious (1 K every 3.8 ABs)and consistantly whiffing on inside breaking balls.

No need to explain Reitsma’s situation. The guy is just bad, I don’t care if its mental, physical or delusional hes just bad. I don’t know what the expectations were for him because it’s not like this is NEW news to anyone the guy has never been a great calibur pitcher.

Next we speak of Giles. I wish i could see the statistic of swing and misses because i think Giles might blow everyone away, he swings and misses more than anyone i have ever witnessed. If he changed just ONE thing about his hitting not only would it guerantee his average to sky rocket but it would put a huge charge into this team. LEVEL OUT YOUR SWING, uppercut swings are meant for guys who are only paid to hit Home runs- like Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey Jr. Jim Thome, Marcus Giles does not come close to these guys’ stature nor power. Level your swing, as a result of this you won’t miss so much, you will hit more linedrives instead of striking out or popping up as he does most of the time. Defensively he is fine.

Jordan is finished at this level. Great guy, but being a great guy should not issue you an Untouchable status at this level of competition.

Pratt, while probably having excellent coaching abilities, is in the same boat as Jordan. Slower than average bat speed (and the rest of their speed for that matter) and both are liabilities late in ball games for this club.

Chipper is smaller this year in size. He changed his work out routines over the off-season to enhance his flexability to decrease chances for Injury. He must not have thought this through completey, changing your body style and habits is going to effect your “I’m use to this” every day abilities and you need to adjust to this, and by adjusting I mean change your approach. Chipper said something that bothered me a while back, he said “My average is over .300 but they don’t pay me to hit singles, they pay me to hit the ball out of the ball park or drive it into the gaps.” This bothers me because They are all payed to play the game of baseball, as hitters they are payed to get on base, if i am not mistaken 99% of managers/coaches would rather see a player go 4 for 4 with 4 RBI singles, than go 1 for 4 with a solo home run. Your attitude should not be, I need to hit it out on this pitch, it should be “Hit the ball hard and good things will happen.” Especially when you’ve lost a step.

Andruw will always be Andruw. Defensive monster. Roller Coaster of a hitter. He needs to stop trying so hard to make the Highlight real with a 480 foot home run and hit the other way once and a while or maybe stop guessing which causes him to swing at the “Next thing comin.”

Francoeur I will give a little more than 1 more season before I give my opinions on him. Yes he needs to be more selective. But the guy hasnt played a full season yet and i won’t bach him until he messes up (Like Laroche) after 2+ full seasons, although he could tone it down with the Throws from right, lay off the Red Bull Jeff.

McCann, I liked from day one and ever since i saw him i was asking why he wasnt starting over Estrada. Now he is, and he is making us all proud. lets hope he keeps it up.

Langerhans needs to stay in the dugout until a pinch hitter is needed to get rid of a left handed pitcher. Give the starts to Diaz. He has proven to be a good hitter, not an every day good hitter, but an improvement over langerhans, and not a defensive liability. Unless we can trade for someone of tall stature, Diaz is left fields Answer.

Renteria, while proving to be a great offensive addition, has been costly defensively, I’m not talking about errors here because most shortstops make an abundance, I am talking about his weak arm. that weak arm has cost us more double plays and infield hits than i care to remember. I could just be spoiled by Furcal, but i seem to remember Belliard and Blauser having better arms than Edgar does. Betemit has a great arm and would be a great shortstop if given the chance.

Leave Orr where he is at the moment. I like him off the bench for some reason.

Coaches, Pendleton must go. Period. His hitting knowledge is very limited, He had one good year as a hitter, that does not mean you know what you are doing. He needed a job and Cox gave him one, the job happens to be a vital one to this organization.

McDowel i am prepaired to give another seasons chance. He inherited a depleated bullpen and 2 great starters. Smoltz and Huds records should be better than what they are. Kyle Davies was coming along very nicely. Most of us new Sosa would be a better selection from the bullpen being as how his ERA from the stretch is 2.49 and from the wind it is 6.37 (am i the only one who pays attention to that?) Thomson was a problem from day one with the Braves and Rameriez is showing improvement but he has always been an up and down pitcher.

Cox needs to shake up the lineup, thats all. I’ve noticed he has shaken up the lineup 3 times this year, all resulting in Offensive surges and winning games, however the next game after the shuffled lineup, he puts the old lineup back on the field and its the same old thing all over again.

Remlinger is toast, it’s sad when you are considered a left handed specialist and you are better against righties. Poronto is promising, Reitsma is toast. McBride is promising. Ken Ray is promising, more on him later. Cormier needs to go in a package deal with Villareal.

Ken ray should not be expected to close games starting in the 8th inning. The guy is great as a middle relief pitcher. then you tell him he is closing, ok great. He did a great Job closing in the 9th for 3 games. next you tell him he is closing but now we need 2 inning saves from him, whats next? Pinch hit and win the game for us because villareal game up 4 runs in the 8th and lost us the lead? The guy hasnt played in the majors in seven years and your asking him to perform like hes a 15 year vet whos been closing all his life. Get real Cox.

Betemit, Play him… ANYWHERE, get his glove and his bat in that EVERYDAY lineup. No one cares where you play him, He needs to start to grow. This man has the potential to be an MVP. trust me. First base is open without Laroche and Jordan, give him 1st no matter what you like or dislike about it. He can adapt.

With Pratt gone, bring back Pena. he did a great Job in McCanns absence.

With Jordan gone bring up Thorman and Platoon him with Diaz if Diaz begins to struggle.

If giles can straighten out his swing and get hot let him play. If not Lets see how Betemit does everyday at second and play thorman at first. Anything is better than LaroJordan platoon right now.

Bring back Chuck James to take Sosas spot in the rotation. Bring up T. Smith to take Thomasons spot in the rotation. Ask Sosa to be the 6th 7th inning guy and see how he handles it.

These changes can turn around the team, they are not that drastic and very realistic. Only one thing stops this from happening. Bobby Cox and his undying loyalty.

Winning Lineup:

1. LF. Diaz -(He sees a lot of pitches and hits linedrives
2. SS. Renteria
3. 1B. Betemit
4. CF. A. Jones
5. C. McCann
6. 3B. C. Jones
7. RF. Francoeur
8. 2B. Giles
9. Pitcher

Winning rotation

1. Hudson
2. Smoltz
3. H. Ramerez
4. C. James
5. T. Smith

Closer: Ken Ray Set up: Chad Poronto (18 games 2.50 ERA) Middle relief Core: J. Sosa, Stockman, Yates LH specialist: Mcbride, Remlinger

Bench: Orr, Pena, Thorman, Langerhans

All changes are within the current possibility of the team. I listed no trade possiblities here because The braves have always tried to grow within the organization and i see no possible trades out there that could benefit the braves for more then 4 months. EXAMPLE: Fred McGriff, Greg Maddux, Tim Hudson, Gary Sheffield, Edgar Renteria and Marquis Grissom.

The Trades we have made in the past that were meant to be single season trades were: Brett Boone, Ken Caminiti, Kyle Farnsworth, Vinny Castilla and Reggie sanders. All of their seasons with the braves were the worst of their careers.

We all know how those players worked out.

By fairyboy

June 16, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

The Braves are making $92 million dollars to suck,my boys and i suck for a lot less.

By Braves Fan

June 17, 2006 03:37 AM | Link to this

I agree with MikeyMike, But anyway still need 3 things: LF,help Bullpen and a First Base,no more chances to LaRoche, LaRoche can’t even hit a coconut with his long slow swing…We need a Crawford in LF, A True Closer, and W. Betemit at First….And the lineup will luck like this:

1-Crawford - LF 2-Renteria - SS 3-Mcann - C 4-C. Jones - 3B 5-A. Jones - CF 6-W.Betemit - 1B 7-Francouer - RF 8-Giles - 2B 9-Pitcher - P

Bullpen

Mcbride,C. James,C. Paronto,J. sosa, L. cormier, Villareal our closer Fernando Rodney from Detroit I guess, not a bad choice ,he is good. 32.1 innings, 30Ks,just 15 hits thats kind a dominand pitcher,his fastball hit 97, he changed speed very well ,think about that posibility.

By Bobbymahlon

June 17, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this

It seems like we can’t win for losing. Now we have a left fielder that is hitting but he costs us a game by running past a fly ball that would have been the third out and than the Soxs went on to score three runs. He also made a sliding catch in foul ground that Langerhans would have caught standing up with ease. Looks like Diaz is in the wrong league as he should be a DH.

By plain as day

June 17, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this

It’s obvious that Booby Cox was handed talent in the past. Hell, even a Rhesus monkey coud’ve managed those teams to semi-success.

The Marlins may be in last place (as of today, perhaps not tomorrow) but they’ve won it all twice while the Braves have languished as the constant bridesmaids. Give me a shooting star anytime.

By Metropolitan Man

June 17, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

We will give you back Julio Franco for Rogwer Mcdowell. Roger shouldnt have to sit with you losers. He was on an episode of Seinfeld for goodness sake. Come back to the METS as a bench coach and catch how the pastime is suppose to be played. The only person who suffers from this braveless collapse is the kids watching. Now they know how to lose and cry at the same time.

By Danny

June 17, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

hey Mut fans….win A division first…then talk…you guys make me sick…the braves beat you for years now…n you guys are talking with over 90 games left….lol…have fun while it lasts.

By chowda head

June 19, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

Thanks Braves fan for showing my 6 year-old son on Saturday and Sunday what a Boston Red Sox home game feels like. In two games the only thing you cheered for was Frenchie’s home run and that euphoria lasted all of 10 minutes.

By Joe C.

June 19, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

Hey Danny - Welcome to reality. The Braves are in last place. The Mets are in first place. The Mets could give you a 2 week head start and you still wouldn’t catch them. It’s over. DEAL. The Mets are already the division champion, everything else is a formality.

By Embarrassed Fan

June 19, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

What is up with all the Boston fans showing up for a Braves home game!? I could have sworn I lived in Atlanta with a team that has won 14 straight division titles, not in Boston! I thought the empty seats at play-off games was a low point but now I am completely appalled and embarrassed to see the Braves playing at home but treated as the visiting team. At least have the decency to not show up for the games instead of cheering for the opposing team. Maybe now people will not take a winning season for granted.

In my opinion, the Braves need to stop relaying on their farm system to carry the team in the future. There is a reason they were in the minor leagues. Please start making trades and spending money to get better caliber players and get this team back to the World Series.

Finally, I blame ESPN for the over coverage and attention given to the Yankees and Red Sox. Its ridiculous the majority of the All-Star ballots are for players from those two teams. Baseball does not revolve around those teams, ESPN needs to stop playing the Best Rivalry trump card and start showing more teams!