AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > June > 13 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USTrio on AAA-to-MLB track
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
If Scott Thorman batted right-handed, he’d probably already have been recalled. Unfortunately for the 24-year-old Canadian and the Braves, he doesn’t.
The left-handed hitting Richmond first baseman-outfielder had a four-hit game Monday night, raising his International League average to .326. The 2000 first-round draft choice has 14 homers and 41 RBIs.
Thorman has shown that he deserves a major league shot. But the Braves need a right-handed hitter to platoon with Adam LaRoche and Thorman doesn’t qualify for that.
While Thorman’s promotion from Class AAA may be delayed, a couple of Richmond pitchers appear to be on the fast-track to Atlanta.
Left-hander Chuck James, in AAA to stretch out his arm as a starter, is 1-0 with a 2.61 ERA in five games. He pitched 6 2/3 innings in his past start and has 16 strikeouts to three walks in 20 2/3 innings.
Reliever Phil Stockman, a 6-foot-8 right-hander, hasn’t allowed a run in his past 18 innings. He has a 0.91 ERA and two saves in 16 games, striking out 39 in 29 2/3 innings.
The Braves don’t have as many players to call up as they did last year. But James, Stockman and Thorman appear ready to help in Atlanta.
Comments
By Penn
June 13, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
I keep looking for the announcement and so far it hasn’t cone.
I have a question; does Thorman play now when a left handed pitcher is on the mound? If so then get him down here and play him at first base on a full time basis or if LaRoche keeps hitting better than the current platoon in LF then play Thorman is Left.
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
By geauxbraves2000
June 13, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
Ah yes, the news we’ve all been waiting for, the maybes. I sit waiting all afternoon for a new blog, for some possible word of a move or two, or at least the hint of some stirring, and this is what I get. Now that I’ve blown off some steam, (not from just this blog but from the doings of the season so far), I guess it is encouraging to know that some of the kids are doing well, but really, what are the chances of any of them being called up anytime soon with BC at the helm. He’s loyal to a fault. Or stubborn.
By Dubya Cubed
June 13, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
Guy - come on tells us something. Are Stockman and James at the stadium tonight? Is Reitsma? We are all ready to hear about a move, any move, anything to be positive about, anything to give us any hope. Any word at all? Any speculation?
By just4fun
June 13, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this
I agree 100% geauxbraves2000 … Cox has one thing that won’t work any longer, his loyalty! Either you just concede defeat and go on playing your “favorites” or you make needed moves and forget the loyalty in order to WIN! I’m sorry to say it’s time for some top level changes in management … it’s been a good ride but its over!
By Not-A-Blogger
June 13, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
There’s not another manager in the Bigs that would give Jordan room on the bench, or keep trotting the Reeksma disaster out to the mound. Or let a player with W.B. ‘s talent languish. Or watch his “lead-off” hitter flail helplessly for weeks on end. Not to mention playing Pratt, depending on Villa-unreal, etc, etc, etc.
It would be comical if it wasn’t so frustrating that an MLB manager can refuse to see what has been obvious to everyone else for so long.
From where we stand now, ANY experiment is worth trying.
By ernesto
June 13, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
Good point on Thorman, Guy. After all, he probably couldn’t hit, what is it now .180-something off lefties like BJ, and where would we be then? Screw the lefty-righty stuff and get some people up here who can rake.
By ILL-logical
June 13, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this
Sshhh…hold it ..what’s that sound? Did you hear it? That, my friends is the sound of the train passing the Braves by. Sic transit gloria. I guess JS and company didn’t know when to hold’em or know when to fold’em.
By Nashionals
June 13, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
The solution is simple:
Remove Marcus Piles.
Add Wilson Betemit.
By geauxbraves2000
June 13, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
I totally agree ernesto about the lefty-righty, , but BC is so lefty/rightie “by the book” oriented (or see earlier post about stubborn) I mean, why else would he continually send Rem out there to face a lefty? I just wish for once he’d go “against the book” and start looking at numbers.
By T Robb
June 13, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
Howsabout we get them up here today? Tell ‘em to bring Kevin Barry, too. Release Jordan, DFA Reitsma, option Villarreal and Yates, move Langerhans to fourth outfielder, let Thorman split left with Diaz, move Sosa to eighth inning (1.00 WHIP, 3.27 ERA in inning 1), give 1B against LH to Betemit. Tell Thomson he’s next.
No more money, no deals, all moves that can be made today. Let’s roll.
By Robert
June 13, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
What are the chances that Thorman will be brought up and LaRoche will be traded? How about we trade Giles and LaRoche putting Wilson at 2nd and Thorman at 1st?
By Carey
June 13, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
The two most obvious problems for the braves are the same problems they started the season with,(noleadoff hitter and nothing close to a closer). If the Braves had a decent closer they would be breathing down the mets face. Instead their having trouble breathing. John S. has to take some of the blame. He is the one who signed Mike Hampton, knowing good and well that his massive contract would eventually leave the braves broke.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
The Braves organization is WAAAAY
By Blogger f/k/a Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
This season has been so full of events and actions (or lack thereof) that defy reason, that I can no longer be the Voice of Reason. Until sanity and reason once again prevail, I’ll be the Blogger f/k/a Voice of Reason.
By Cleanuphitter16
June 13, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
It’s going to shock me if something hasn’t been done about Reitsma by the time the next homestand starts. I mean, could BC actually consider putting Reitsma into a game—in ANY situation—at home again? I simply can’t see any scenario where Reitsma could pitch in a game in Atlanta until he has at least spent a month in AAA and given us fans a few weeks to get over him.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
The Braves organizations is WAAAAY to sentimental and a sucker for a “heartwarming, feel-good story.” Remember how long they hung onto Wohlers are his breakdown? How many times did we resign Franco and Eddie Perez not to mention the upper 30s and early 40s castoffs from other teams? Jim Brower, Remlinger, anyone? I’m convinced that if Hank Aaron came out of retirement tomorrow the Braves would sign him and have him batting clean-up.
It’s a business, fellas. Sometimes you have to shoot the horse with the broken leg…in this case, players who contributed YEARS ago but should be broadcasting or coaching now.
By TennesseePaul
June 13, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
This right handed bat for platooning is lame. Absolutely lame. Look, there is no platoon in NY for Delgado. I have yet to see them run Franco out just because a southpaw is on the mound. If Thorman can hit both sides, then maybe we should call him up and let him play had hold LaRoche in the Rafeal Belliard cage: Late inning defensive substitution.
James will be able to come off the DL and into the pro’s soon. When he does that, the Braves will have a serious step in the right direction.
We’re gonna win tonight. We have to. GO BRAVES
By kris in st.paul
June 13, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
this looks like the end of the run, but then again, championships aren’t won in May and June. Bravos have got alot of bad parts but they aren’t completely broken. they should first swap the two top guys and take it from there. The pitching, well, yes, the pitching stinks. but if sosa can retain some of his form from last year and ramirez keeps improving who knows.
By Carey
June 13, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
In my mind Brian Jordan cost the braves 4 runs in the first inning Sunday. He hits lefties even worse than La Roche and plays much worse defense. He is a great guy who was a great brave but he does’nt belong in the major leagues anymore. Sunday as soon Reitsma entered the game, I said Oh No! My wife was in the kitchen and said I already know, they just put Reitsma in. It’s sad when the former expos now nationals have a much,much,better bullpen than the braves.
By The Mad Hungarian
June 13, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
SI.com had a piece earlier about how the Angels need a 1b, Toronto and Oakland need a 2b, and Toronto is also in dire need of starting pitching. Interesting…
I’m actually pretty excited about seeing Thorman, James, and Stockman up soon and getting them in the mix. This team still has a solid core, with Smoltz, Hudson, McCann, Renteria, Jones, and Jones (and Francouer after another season or so, hopefully less). I’m not giving up on them - didn’t when I was a kid watching them in the 70s and 80s, so if I can withstand that I can withstand this (obviously I’m an optimist…).
By glass half full
June 13, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
thomson and sosa would be an upgrade to the pen. They’re both good for an inning or two. Perfect for relief.
By geauxbraves2000
June 13, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
Just read this:
Braves Looking To Trade Giles Just got word from a reputable, well-connected source out of Atlanta. Excellent timing, as Braves fans have been clamoring for any indication of a deal.
According to my source, the Braves are serious about trading Marcus Giles and using Wilson Betemit at second base. The club loves Betemit’s bat and he’s earned a chance as a regular. The Braves have gotten a paltry .235/.328/.349 line out of Giles in 238 ABs this year.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/atlanta_braves/index.html
We all know sometimes rumors get started from two guys sitting a bar, but at least it’s something to think about.
By geauxbraves2000
June 13, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
I guess I don’t know how to link, so just copy and paste. Sorry.
By Chop Chop
June 13, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Braves Looking To Trade Giles
geauxbraves2000, you type the subject of the link between the brackets [Braves Looking To Trade Giles] and you put the link (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/06/braveslooking.html) in parentheses.
By Chop Chop
June 13, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
I have to admit that, when I saw the subject of Guy’s blog, I thought the Braves had made some moves. When I clicked the link, I was disappointed to see that nothing had been done. It really shocks me that Reitsma is still on this team today.
By ernesto
June 13, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
So they are saying the Cards are interested in Giles, who are they going to give us? Marquis and Wainwright?
By The Mad Hungarian
June 13, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
Between Aaron Miles and Hector Luna, I don’t think the Cards need a 2b. And I doubt they’re giving up Wainwright.
Speaking of the Cards, has anyone read “Three Nights in August?” Pretty tremendous book if you love baseball.
By Blogger f/k/a Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
I started this season trying to defend Chris Reitsma. As the season progressed, I joined the growing mob with stones in hand. Now though, I feel sorry for the guy. I truly wish that he would accept an assignment to the minors to try to get some confidence back. The guy is so mentally fried right now that he is painful to watch. I don’t want to see him back on the mound in an Atlanta uni any time soon, but I am rooting for the guy to get his act together.
By Blogger f/k/a Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this
Wainwright’s name actually has been mentioned in the Cards’ trade talk involving Craig Wilson of the Pirates.
By geauxbraves2000
June 13, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this
Thank you Chop Chop.
By The Mad Hungarian
June 13, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this
How about a Reitsma for Guardado trade? Both have been terrible and both would probably benefit from a change of scenery. Couldn’t get worse, right?
By Phat Bat Boy
June 13, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
You’ve got that right, Ernesto. Wouldn’t mind having Capellan and Colon back either. Seems we have traded quite a bit of pitching talent for a short-term answer. And now, we have spent less than 10% of the team’s salary on the bullpen and sit and wonder why they are so bad.
Personally, I’d rather try to move Langerhans and LaRoche and play Betemit either in LF or 1B.
Why haven’t we traded for Scott Williamson yet?
And let me be the first to suggest a Smoltz for Zumaya trade if this thing isn’t better by mid-July and Detroit continues to be in the hunt.
By ernesto
June 13, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this
Sorry Mad Hungarian, I was just trying to bring the JD Drew trade full circle…I doubt they’re giving up Marquis and Wainwright too, You’d have to be an idiot….wait…sorry JS. (I know Drew was crucial in that year’s run, blah blah blah)
By The Mad Hungarian
June 13, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this
Heck, don’t be sorry Ernesto - I forget sometimes that tone of voice doesn’t come across in blogs, I’m sorry if it came across as blunt. I just don’t think they’d give up Wainwright because they’re in first place in a competitive division and he’s been so good for them. With the injuries they’ve had, they need all the help they can get.
By Braves fan
June 13, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
All of you that point to Bobby Cox and say he is the problem, lose all credability. The fact that he is loyal is what makes his players want to run through a wall for him. He inspires the type of attitude that usually leads to him getting the best out of players over the long haul. We may or may not win the division but we will make a run at it because he will not give up on his players so they will not give up on themselves.
By Carlos27
June 13, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
Lets trade Giles and laRoche for a bag of balls and we will also throw Ritsma in for a pair of shoes. Na forget the shoes you can have him for free. Lets get the young braves and get Betimit in 2nd go braves Lets turn it around baby.
By Steve
June 13, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
Has anyone ever realized that the only big hitter that has ever been acquired at the deadline has been McGriff (13 years ago)? That I think is one reason we haven’t gotten anywhere in the playoffs. I think if Carlos Lee is really available, go after him.
By ernesto
June 13, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
Personally I’d hate to give up on Marcus, I mean it’s a pants-down spanking to watch him lead off, but he’s a gutsy player. If Soriano can try left field why can’t we put WB out there and give him a shot at leading off? Put Langy in for late inning defense and drop Marcus back to 2 or later in the order. Take some of the heat off the guy.
By Adam
June 13, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
The Braves might be too far out for it to matter at this point, but imagine how different the team would be with Dontrelle Willis in the rotation, and Carl Crawford playing LF and batting leadoff (with Giles presumably traded somewhere for bullpen help.) A lineup of Crawford, Renteria, Jones, Jones, McCann, Laroche/Thorman, and Francour seems pretty daunting, especially behind the big three of Hudson, Smoltz and Willis. I like our chances of making a race out of it with that team. And a nice bonus - neither Crawford or Willis can become a free agent until after 2008.
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this
It’s time for action. My 10 moves:
1) I trade Giles while he still has value and start Betemit at 2B. I’m hoping to gain a couple of prospects to flip in a later move. I effectively trim $3M from the payroll in the process.
2) I dangle Langerhans and LaRoche and try to get a couple of servicable arms for a less than servicable bullpen.
3) I pursuade Jordan to retire and call up Thorman, and let him to play every day. I don’t care if he’s unproven, he can’t do any worse.
4) I promote Chuck James, start him, and insert Sosa in the bullpen. Sosa’s got great stuff but can’t string too many innings together. Plus, he’s one of the few strikeout pitchers on the roster. He’d make a nice short reliever.
5) I make a hard push to trade for a name guy for the rotation, giving up the prospects it takes to get him. Prospects don’t fill seats, but someone like D-Train will. God knows this franchise could use a little excitement in the stands. It just might rub off on the team. Plus, I can now afford him because D-Train doesn’t make any more than Giles did.
6) Now I can make Thomson a long relief guy. He’s a heckuva lot better than the ones we have now.
7) I give Villarreal and Yates mapquest directions to Richmond.
8) I give Stockman a XXL jersey with Atlanta on the front and say, “Go get ‘em, big fella!”
9) I do something with Chris Reitsma besides pitch him. What was Smoltz’s shrinks name?
10) This is the hardest one… I try to dig up a LF/leadoff hitter somewhere. Hey, can Craig Counsell play LF?
I realize that I might be lucky to pull off 3 out of my 10 suggestions, but that’d still be better AVG than most of the Braves have.
By Lew
June 13, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this
We do need immediate help, but stop and listen to yourselves. What good would a closer have been the past two weeks? We never even got to the point where the closer would have been in the game! Bobby Cox may be loyal to the seeming point of absurdity, but he isn’t the one striking out 11 times a game-neither is Terry Pendleton. It is also inconceivable that a manager so noted for his ability to motivate his adoring players has all of a sudden lost it like Reitsma. The major problem with this team is middle relief. It used to be that we could just plug in the retread of the year and roll. It hasn’t been like that this year. That’s where the changes need to come. It is also probably a lot easier to get middle guys than power hitting first basemen or closers. Give Scheurholz a chance. Yeah, time is wearing down, but he’s trying to keep from getting his pocket picked by the other teams. I really don’t believe the team is this bad. Maybe it’s a virus.
By Rob
June 13, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
Hudson for Lastings Milledge and Aaron Heillman. Renteria for some young stud arms. The plan worked twice for the Marlins. If not, then mortgage the future (Salty) for a bat and a starter. Status quo is not working.
By TennesseePaul
June 13, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this
Dishonorable mentions Philadelphia Phillies catcher (six walks, 13 runs all season); Oakland Athletics second base (.216, three homers, 17 RBIs); St. Louis Cardinals left field (.321 slugging, one homer, 15 RBIs, all worst in baseball); Atlanta Braves right field (13 homers doesn’t make up for .268 OBP).
In his latest look around the majors, Ken Rosenthal says the shortage of available starting pitching might enable A’s GM Billy Beane to get his asking price for lefty Barry Zito. Plus, news on Mike Mussina leaving the Bronx and the Blue Jays’ rotation woes
—SI.com
O’s not happy with Mazzone?
Two rival executives interpreted the Orioles’ promotion of Triple-A pitching coach Larry McCall to bullpen coach as an indication that the team is not completely satisfied with new pitching coach Leo Mazzone.
Mike Flanagan, the Orioles’ executive vice president, told the Washington Post that the team hired McCall because of his pitching background and familiarity with several of the club’s younger pitchers.
Mazzone shouldn’t need the help, considering that his $450,000 salary is the second-highest among major-league pitching coaches. But the Royals are the only club with a worse team ERA than the Orioles
—Foxsports.com
The Braves should have extra starting pitching once James and Davies are up.
Schuerholtz was wise not to move a starter early in the season. Despite the struggles of Thomson and Sosa, He might just be able to sell high.
By Hal
June 13, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this
Braves Fan Ive been a Cox suporter for years ,one of the best managers ever (regular season anyway)BUT i think what the bloggers are saying is this ,I HAVENT SEEN ANYONE RUNNING THROUGH WALLS LATELY!!!! or even running to first base!! That being said i dont really think the fault is Cox eather i think more a conmbination of things .This team seems to think its cool or fashonable or something to Grin and ignore there failings .I actually started noticing this phenomena last year in losing games I think maybe Bobby has missed the boat in judging this latest group of youngsters ,with the exception of Mccann i dont think there all that good and i sure as hell dont think they have the fundimentals of the game anywhere close to down While i dont think its to the point that Cox should be replaced i think the younger players are playing him rather then the other way around and his insistence on pitching Reitsma and playing Pratt and Jordan is Bizzare if nothing else
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this
Didya ever notice that reading a blog without puctuation is alot like listening to Japanese animation with the English dubbed in?
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this
Maybe those guys will pitch better than freakin’ Reitsma and Remlinger. I get sick to my stomach when I see Reit & Rem warming up in the bullpen. Its kinda funny though to watch both those guys work up a lather after about 4 pitches. They look like they are pitching against aliens that will literally eat them if they give up hits. Well, both should be fully digested by now…
By Daniel Wood
June 13, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this
Hey guys it’s official…i think. On the Richmond Braves web-site, they are saying that Phil Stockman has been promoted to the big club. It doesn’t say what other transactions were made and i can’t find this info on any other site. All i have to say is it’s about time and hopefully Chuckie James and “Thor” are not too far behind! Go Braves
By Whatnow
June 13, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this
Nomar, nice suggestions…all of them. We better not hold our collective breath though. I like our players but that said, they aren’t doing the job. Changes need to be made and the sooner the better. My tops on the list to go are Giles, Jordan, and Reitsma. I’ve been a Reitsma supporter but he looks haunted out there. Pratt could go too but I think it is important to have a veteran catcher. With the way the team is going right now I’d like to see the Braves bring up the two or three guys that have been mentioned today. I’d also like to see the Braves acquire Dontrelle…give up a couple of prospects and Sosa or Thomson if the Marlins want a more veteran pitcher. I am not giving up on the season. We do have a good core group of everyday players. We do have 3 quality starters. The bullpen is a mess except for Ray, McBride and sometimes Remlinger. But I also would feel a little better if some sort of move would happen other that someone coming off the DL.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this
Great news. I just hope Rem & Reit are RELEASED. Its a shame for Betemit to sit with his .300 average while guys hitting .220 and .250 play every day. I’d ask to be played or traded if I were Betemit. Play him at 2B.
By The Mad Hungarian
June 13, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this
Nice scoop Daniel - I hope that deer-in-the-headlights picture of him on the R-Braves website wasn’t taken when he got the news…
By Chop Chop
June 13, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this
Stockman Called Up
I wonder who was sent down…
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this
Jordan is really a non-factor and only a back-up. Pratt has been forced into starting due to McCann’s injury. You knew what you would basically get from Jordan and Pratt. Why Giles,LaRoche, and Langerhans continue to start is beyond me though.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this
They probably sent down some younger guys like Pena but should just release a few suspect relievers…
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this
Braves win game 1 of the 2008 NLCS 7-4 over the Brewers.
By Hal
June 13, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this
Pena was sent down last week when Mccann was activated
By ronnie
June 13, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
Here are my thoughts. Renteria has worked like a charm and with a talent at Richmond like Prado it is time for Giles to be traded. Jordan is a great guy and a boost to the bench but unfortunately the boost needed is in the field. Laroche has no better trade value now, nor will he later, than last year so it is time for him to be traded. There is enough talent at Richmond at first with Thorman to replace him now. Trade the much heralded Salty along with thses guys for some pitching. The young braves are thick with catching prospects and we can get the most from Salty’s potential than we might with his actual results.
Step up and make a trade, it is game time and time is running out.
By Chop Chop
June 13, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this
Glass Half Full…
You forgot the part about Carl Crawford hitting a grand slam to put the Braves ahead in the top of the ninth and Joe Nathan closing the game out. D-Train was a little off his game, but the Braves persevered and took care of business. The Brewers don’t have a chance.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this
Maybe Paronto then. Anyone else remember all the games that were basically won thru 6 innings earlier in the season that the bullpen lost ? Now the starting pitching is bad,the hitting not as good, and the SAME sorry bullpen exists.
By Jimbo
June 13, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this
One would think JS would want to trade our midget 2nd baseman so that he can call up JS Jr.
By Blake
June 13, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this
DOB,
You heard anything of real substance yet?
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this
Actually, Crawford is on the team (acquired in a trade with Arizona for Renteria) and is tearing it up, but it was Farnsworth closing it out, earning his 4th save of the 08 postseason.
By Jimbo
June 13, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this
Ronnie….Good stuff. I’m with you.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this
I like the idea of Renteria leading off and hitting Betemit 2nd and let him play 2B. I’d be a mad biotch if I was Betemit knowing I deserve to play over about half the team.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this
If you are gonna dream why not say Mariano Rivera to close out Jared Weaver’s one hitter…
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this
What’s in that half full glass?
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this
Betemit was great in the lead-off spot Saturday. What was he, 3 for 4?
By Rob
June 13, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this
Get off Giles back. The guy is a flat-out stud. Does anyone remember when they tried to leadoff Andruw years ago? Guess we should have traded that worthless pud too. Maybe leadoff is a little harder mentally than it sounds. Giles defense has been above solid, and dude can still hit. I’d bet my life that I’ll have the last laugh when all is said and done with him.
By paluka
June 13, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this
I think JS Jr would be a nice upgrade over Giles. He is probably not going to go to the plate every time and try to hit a 5 run homer. 2nd basemen who hit at the top of the order are suppesed to get on base any way they can or move the runner up, not swing from their heels each time as Giles does. Toronto is looking for a 2nd baseman, maybe Atlanta could get Frank Cattalonoto for him and he can play left field and hit second behind Wilson and Renteria can be moved down to 5th to protect Andruw
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this
Not enough…I’ll be filling it about 7:05.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this
Everytime he plays he hits well. When he filled in for Chipper he hit .300 What’s he gotta do to start ? Oh yeah, someone’s gotta get hurt…
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this
I like Giles actually but you gotta hit and get on base to leadoff. He’s done neither so far this year.
By Rob
June 13, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this
You nay sayers in Atlanta should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves. You are the same jag off’s that will be singing their praise in July and August saying how great they are, and how stupid “everyone else” was that wanted to trade them back in June. La Roche doesn’t have a track record so I can’t defend him. Giles does, and he will tear it up in the 2nd half. Chipper has plenty of game left in the tank. He’s hitting pretty close to .300 and is hitting plenty of doubles and considering he missed 2-3 weeks, still has a lot of RBI’s. They’re not the problem. Just relax and enjoy what you have.
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this
You have to keep filling it at about 7:05 lately…
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this
Who is complaining about Chipper ? He’s my favorite player ever. You tell me that Giles deserves playing over Betemit ? Compare their stats. If we wait until the second half for Giles to “get hot” Braves will be 25 games back of the Mets. His .320 OBP is like worst among all leadoff hitters in MLB this year.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this
Absolutely
By Rob
June 13, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this
Betemit will KILL the Braves at 2nd base with his defense. It’s the old Sammy Sosa argument. He may drive in 2 or 3 a night but his defense is worth that much to the other team. I love Wison, but there is not even a comparison in defense. If you want to say maybe 3b or 1b, then MAYBE you have an argument. But 2nd is all around the hardest position to play in the infield. No chance he can replace Marcus’ defense. NO CHANCE IN HELL!!!!!!!!!
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this
Betemit came up a SS. He can play as well as Marcus defensively any day. 2B is the weakest infield spot for ability of the three (SS,3B,2B). Giles has made a bunch of errors defensively that cost Braves wins this year. Both players fielding are average. But Betemit hits .300 and Giles .230
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this
“Get off Giles’ back”..? Hell, he’s playing like he’s carrying someone on his back. I like him the same as most of you guys, but he ain’t gettin’ it done. It makes me cringe to see that from the heels uppercut swing.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 06:12 PM | Link to this
Conjugal visit sex or fugitve sex?
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this
Oh boy, now 2B is harder to play than SS and 3B ? You have to have much more range and a way stronger throwing arm to play SS & 3B. All you need to know is how to pivot well for the double play to play 2B.
By Rob
June 13, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this
By robdawg06 2B is the weakest infield spot for ability of the three (SS,3B,2B).
This statement alone tells me all I need to know about the “knowledge” some of you have about this game. Anyone in this room that has played this game even a little is laughing as hard as I am. Have a good season “baseball guys”
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this
If Oakland and Toronto need 2nd basemen, just based on ERA Oakland has better relievers.
By Goat Roper
June 13, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this
Just saw today’s lineup and Cox has Giles leading off and Betemit warming the pine again. As he continues letting out the rope, Cox just might hang himself.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this
Yeah, and he acts like he’s hitting 4th instead of 1st in the lineup. Walks,bunts,hitting the ball on the ground are a must for a leadoff hitter. Not trying to hit solo homeruns but then striking out.
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this
Glass: No thanks…
Rob: Glory days are gone, dude. Just because you had some American Legion success doesn’t make you the next host of Baseball Tonight.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this
Any 3B or SS can play 2B. Almost no 2B can play SS and 3B. What else do you need to learn ? Strong arm required at SS and 3B. Average or no arm required at 2B. Somebody chip in here please.
By just4fun
June 13, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this
Trade Bobby Cox for whatever you can get for a stubborn “player’s manager” that can’t cut it any longer … maybe some pine tar?
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this
BTW - Two words for Rob and robdawg: Pete Orr.
By Jimbo
June 13, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this
I just read the Rangers made Antonio Alfonseca available in trade.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:23 PM | Link to this
Edgardo Alfonso is a great example to prove my point. He wanted to play SS for the Mets. His arm was weak. So they moved him to 2B. There’s been hundreds of MLB 2B that were moved there because they had weaker arms and no range to play SS & 3B.
By John
June 13, 2006 06:24 PM | Link to this
here is an idea that might help the Braves,bring up from richmond,Scott Thorman and James Jurries,Thorman is left handed and Jurries is Right handed,since BC likes this lefty right thing he could play Thorman and jurries as his firstbase combo,get rid of BJ and put together a package of Giles,Laroche,Thomson,Langerhans, get whatever they can get for them,release Reitsma,move Sosa to the bull pen,play Betmit at second and let him bat second,make Renteria the leadoff hitter unles they can get one in a trade,Then call up Chuck James and Kevin Barry along with Phil stockman.remember Jurries had a good spring training with the Braves but BC kept Bj instead because BJ was a Veteran.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:24 PM | Link to this
One word for you Nomar : Betemit
By Chop Chop
June 13, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this
Shortstop and third base are more difficult positions to field because more balls are hit there than to second base (or first base, for that matter). Most players are right-handed batters and most of them pull the ball.
It’s just a fact, Rob.
By billy
June 13, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this
Reitsma has just been disabled and stockman called up….herd on the pregame show via radio
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:27 PM | Link to this
Nah. Cox will keep using the same guys especially the relievers and accept his fate. Lightning may strike Reitsma and make him throw pitches that move to get hitters out. If we can see the need for change why can’t Bobby ?
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this
Yo, robdawg, I’m on your side. Pete Orr can play a little 2B, but other than that can’t play dead.
By Jimbo
June 13, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
Unreal….Betemit is NOT in the starting lineup again tonight. The Midget is back at second and leading off.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this
Reitsma can’t even play with himself much less play dead… Wait, that’s right. Now he’s playing like he’s injured…
By CITYofdecatur
June 13, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this
WHAT HAPPENED TO JURIES
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this
I hope, for Reitsma’s sake, that he really is injured. I’d feel alot better knowing that there is some physical reason for his complete inability to get outs. Physical injuries heal; mental scars last a long time.
By TennesseePaul
June 13, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this
YEAH!!!! GO BRAVES!!!
Reitsma is down. What are they saying? He has something “broken” I bet. Broken spirit. Broken Will. Broken Talent, Broken heart? Broken everything. Maybe they just are saying He is on the DL because he is broken, and we don’t know how to fix him.
We gotta win tonight boys!
By Blogger f/k/a/ Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this
Reitsma’s hurt? Stockman’s called up? Maybe there is some small amount of reason left…
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this
I don’t wish injury on no one. I just wish he could pitch better.
By TennesseePaul
June 13, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this
Jurries cracked his leg in AAA and went on the DL. He wasn’t swinging the stick all that well either. That could have changed by now.
Thorman is where it’s at now.
By Bob, journalist
June 13, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Something needs to change and perhaps we do need immediate help … but stop and listen to yourself … “Bobby Cox may be loyal to the seeming point of absurdity, but he isn’t the one striking out 11 times a game-neither is Terry Pendleton”.
Loyality or no, the point is that they are!
Regardless, it’s been their job to recognize the problem … “fundamentally poor trips to the plate” … and address it … long before now!
Sure, we can upgrade certain player positions and things should as least marginally improve … but, until the real problems are effectively addressed … the wheels of progress will keep spinning, round and round … almost in place.
I agree with you that things aren’t all that bad … I just wish it were a virus. The Braves look to me like a talented bunch … of under acheivers. Doesn’t that tell us something?
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this
Somebody earlier called Thorman “Thor.” Check it out. I can hear the announcer:
“Batting 6th and playing 1B - Thor, God of Thunder!”
Then he steps up to the plate to “The Ride of the Valkyries.” Dah~do~da~da~da~
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this
I suggested calling Francoeur “Fran The Man” but he got labeled “Frenchy”. Heck, even the French don’t wanna be called “Frenchy”…
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this
Question for ya’ll : Why do MLB pitchers rehab in the minors instead of the majors ? For example, Roger Clemens pitching at AA. Let’s say worse case scenario, Clemens pulls a muscle in the 3rd inning. Wouldn’t he have likely done it pitching at AA too ? Then if he did get injured you could bring in the guy you had scheduled to pitch for him that day anyway.
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this
Goin’ to watch the game… Later—
By Chop Chop
June 13, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this
robdawg06, MLB pitchers rehab in the minors because regular-season games in the bigs mean more than they do in the minors. If Clemens comes up to the big club and takes four starts to get sharp, it could cost the Astros four losses.
By TennesseePaul
June 13, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this
Chuck James is currently pitching on the same track as Thomson. He could be called up as early as tomorrow, but probably on the next start. That’s going to be HUGE! There is so much potential right on the edge now. We can do this!
GO BRAVES
By Metropolitan Man
June 13, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this
Cant wait for the Marlins to sweep. Maybe you guys can trade Error Renteria and get a closer, 1st baseman, left fielder, 2 starting pitchers, and some bullpen help. Its worth a try.
By Ralph
June 13, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this
When Bobby Cox tells his players that things were as as bad back in 93 as they are now and to “Think positive” that the players are trying too hard. It’s like the Captain of the Titanic telling the passagers “Don’t worry folks she will never sink.”
By geauxbraves2000
June 13, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this
Wow, only two strikeouts with a runner at second, hey, this team is improving!
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this
I guess it makes sense to rehab in the minors. But Clemens K’d 11 in a worthless game. I’m glad Giles got a hit. Themn Chipper & Andruw K’d out ! Dang.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this
Reckon Smoltz will need to pitch a no-hitter to have a chance ?
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this
I thought Gene Simmons was the God of Thunder? Oh, Nomar…that fugitive sex comment wasn’t an invitation. I was watching an episode of Seinfeld where George….oh, nevermind.
Hey, Smoltz just served up a fat one to Mike Cabrerra.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this
Cabreera, Soriano, and Utley own Smoltz
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this
Ouch !
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this
I think Fox should do a 3 man booth…add Ron Gant. That would make Torborg and Rathmun tolerable.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 07:30 PM | Link to this
Rathbun said with 1 out and Chipper hitting “And Andruw would be next”. Lol.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this
Alfonseca was designated for assignment on June 9th. Texas has 10 days to release him or trade him.
By TennesseePaul
June 13, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this
Russ Ortiz was sent on assignement as well.
Neither of these two clowns should be back in Atlanta.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this
MLB just recycles sorry pitchers.
By MBATL
June 13, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this
Agree with Ernesto (and probably others…). I’d hate to trade Giles just because he isn’t a leadoff hitter. He’s a good 2B, has some pop in his bat, is a ‘hustle guy’, and took on this leadoff assignment because he was asked to. I doubt he ever envisioned himself a leadoff hitter.
I WOULD trade him for real value, because I think 2B is replaceable, but we shouldn’t dump him just because the team is in a slump.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this
McCann can’t do it by himself
By journalist jimmy smith
June 13, 2006 08:11 PM | Link to this
man on second with nobody out and francoeur comes to bat. out one. laroche comes to bat. out two. are these guys coachable? do they understand that they must put the ball in play? needless to say the run did not score. journalist jimmy smith is furious.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this
Is Stockman at the stadium? I know Bobby likes to get his new pitchers in the first night.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this
Bobby lets them do what they want. With a guy with a 1.95 era over 6 starts you bunt the runner over even early down 1-0 to try to tie the game. That’s managing.
By ncscoots
June 13, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this
oh man…7 K in 4 innings…oh man. This purely painful to behold.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this
Can Stockman hit too ?
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this
With a name like “Uggla” I bet high school was brutal
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this
Braves have the uncanny ability of making any pitcher on any team look like Roger Clemens.
By Bob, journalist
June 13, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this
Don’t you just love it? Guy writes: “The Braves put the much-maligned reliever on the disabled list Tuesday because of numbness in the two outside fingers of his right hand.”
Bobby Cox Comment “Absolutely it has affected him, If you have no feeling, you don’t know where the ball is going.”
Asked how long Reitsma’s has had problems with his hand, Cox said, “For a while.”
Okay, the manager has been using a pitcher who, for quite a while, has had numbness in the two outside fingers of his right hand.
I’ve been a loyal Bobby Cox supporter and defender since before the streak began but there’s no defending this action!
Well, at least they’ve faced that problem and temporarily addressed it. Now, maybe it will rain and the game shortened so that the Braves can keep their strikeouts under 15.
By ernesto
June 13, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this
Here’s an idea, since Reitsma is undoubtably suffering from shell shock just have him pitch warm up to Francoeur -throw him nothing but junk into the opposite batter’s box until Frenchy learns to recognize it. I mean, who in the park, watching the game, anyone didn’t know exactly what pitch was coming to Frenchy in that situation. Everyone but Frenchy evidently.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this
He’d fit right in at UGA though !
By Blogger f/k/a Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this
The reason to trade Giles is because you probably could get value in return, more so than from Langerhans or LaRoche. Giles wuold bring a quality arm that is sorely, (OK, bad choice of words,) needed. That plus the fact that he’s on a one year, $3.75M contract and due for a bump to about twice that in his last year of arbitration. I like him too, but I don’t like him $7.5M worth. Play Batemit or play Prado; spend the $7+M on arms.
By ncscoots
June 13, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this
robdawg, you’re get who to bunt??? You’re saying bunt the runner over, deep in the order, with the 8 hitter and the pitcher coming up? That how you manage your little league squad?
By Woogidy
June 13, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this
McCann sure is a bright light in a dark room. The Braves are a big pile of turds.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this
Remember Bobby’s “ABC Baseball” with Ted Simmons years ago ? He never uses B & C any more.
By Blogger f/k/a Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this
wuold should be would
Batemit should be Betemit
I’m missing keystrokes like the Braves are missing pitches…
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this
Giles is probably gone after this season, so he should be traded when he can still benefit the team…NOW.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this
Yes. You would hope Adam Laroche or Diaz could hit a sac fly to score the runner from 3rd to tie the game. I see you manage like Bobby has been managing ?
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 08:25 PM | Link to this
Maybe Reitsma could pitch BP to the Braves. All those K’s would bring his confidence back.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this
I know they let guys on the DL hang around with the team…this should not be allowed with Reitsma; his crappiness is contagious like Kolb’s was last year.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this
It would probably be a stalemate. Lots of fould bals. Reitsma not good enough to get the ball by them but them not good enough to put in play either…
By ncscoots
June 13, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this
naw, I don’t manage like Bobby manages. If I did, I would be one of the winningest active managers in major leagues…kinda like Bobby. My point was simply that bunting, early in the game, and on the road, in effect wasting an out with the middle of the order, to TIE, might not the best move.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this
Are we really going to lose to the Marlins?
By Blogger f/k/a Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this
aaaarrrgggghhhh
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this
Fun with analogies: May : Cubs June : Braves
By Bob, journalist
June 13, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this
Yes, Virginia there is … and yes, journalist jimmy smith, they are! The better question is, where is the coaching?
If they were being well coached … they wouldn’t be playing after that wonderful little demonstration of fundamentals. Maybe they can learn something of value from the young Marlins.
Of course, they might be playing with some ailment about which we know nothing.
You and me both … but, furious is an understatement!
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this
The only thing worse than watching this dung pile is listening to Bob Rathbum and Jeff Boreborg describe it.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this
Well is 1-1 better than the actual result remained 1-0 ? Don’t matter much now I guess…. 3-0 now.
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this
Maybe ALL of the Braves have numb fingers. I won’t begin to speculate as to why…
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this
Tom Paciorek was even worse. He would talk about the 60’s and 70’s game and try to make it parallel to today.
By chipster
June 13, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this
Maybe we should bring back Don Baylor as hitting coach and replace Bobby with Dusty Baker.
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this
…the proverbial long, noisy single…
By ncscoots
June 13, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this
uh oh, men on first and second, surely Francoeur must bunt here right? LMAO
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this
Paciorek : “Yeah, I remember me and Mario Mendoza had back to back doubles once”. Neither he nor Mendoza could play MLB baseball today. There’s better players stuck in A ball than they ever were…
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this
Paciorek was awful. I particularly enjoyed his inane observations like stating that Roger Clemmons was “good.”
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this
No strikeout as usual…
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this
Dusty Baker??!!?? Talk about overrated. I suppose you wouldn’t mind Bobby Valentine, either.
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this
Paciorek is the absolute master of pointing out the painfully obvious. Boreborg just kills me with his monotone drone.
By Balthazar
June 13, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this
Laroche sucks.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this
Totally different situation though. 1-0 you bunt the runner to 3rd to try to tie. Down 3-0 of course you let him swing away.
By Nomar Fulnaround
June 13, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this
McCannon, perhaps?
By ncscoots
June 13, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this
jeez, I give up. You know, at one time, this blog was frequented by folks with an understanding of the game, and it was filled with cogent and insightful comments, humor, and it was just plain fun to read. That all seems to have disappeared, or at least swallowed up by, well, something else. Maybe it’s the just the state of the team bringing out clueless and mindless, I don’t know. So farewell, Voice Of Reason, Bob, yes, even you journalist jimmy, and a few others whose posts I’ve enjoyed and with whom I’ve enjoyed these conversations. Someone tell Carolina Lady howdy for me (if she ever comes back). Adios.
By Dick Hertz
June 13, 2006 08:54 PM | Link to this
The only thing more boring would be listening to Skip/Chip Carey, Don Sutton, or Pete VanWeiren.
Nice managing Bobby. Sit Benemit down again so this team can lose another game. At least Giles get some more at bats, besides the ones he’s getting in Bobby’s bedroom.
By Blogger f/k/a Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this
Don’t leave us ncscoots! Rational and cogent thought is dwindling already. I can’t even speak for reason anymore because it is in such short supply. I’ll admit I read more than I comment these days, but I still enjoy interjecting a thought or two. Hang in there, ncscoots, stay the course…
By Woogidy
June 13, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this
Maybe we could trade Giles and Reitsma for some Fred McGriff instructional videos.
By MBATL
June 13, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this
Blogger f/k/a VOR… IF Giles is not in our longterm plans, we should dump - uh, trade - him this summer rather than wait, agreed. I have no idea whether we’ve reached that conclusion; we seem to need a LF and a 1B, and some pitching (understatement of the year)… so we can either use Giles to get some of that, or avoid creating yet another need. Don’t know…
Regarding Bobby’s comments on Reitsma… Cox will NEVER hang a player out to dry. What would be accomplished by it, except for making a few bloggers feel better?
More importantly, if the Braves have any hope of trading Reitsma for anything at all, better to say that a numb finger (or whatever) is the reason he’s been ineffective, than just to say ‘he stinks.’ Got to be smarter than that.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this
How in the world can you say I don’t know baseball ? With the score 1-0 Marlins and with a runner at 2nd with no outs you bunt the runner to 3rd so a sac fly can tie the game. That’s basic baseball. He let Francoeur swing and he struck out and McCann was left at 2B. You are the one who needs to learn baseball.
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this
OK, you’ve convinced me that we must ALL hang in there. When reason is at a premium, reason is at its greatest need. Fight the good fight! Now, if we only had some of Mrs. Anthony’s sweet potato pie…
By MBATL
June 13, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this
scoots, stick around! You’re a good poster, and the quality comes and goes (I know the quality of MY posts comes and goes, anyway). You’d be missed…
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this
I’ll tell ya’ll what. I’ll leave and scoots (who thinks you let Francoeur or anyone else swing away when you need to score a run to tie the game against a pitcher with a 1.95 ERA) and you people that agree with him can post till your hearts content and I will search for intelligent conversation elsewhere.
By SC-Brave
June 13, 2006 09:11 PM | Link to this
“Numbing Sensation”, finally Reitsma is gone!!!!!!
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:11 PM | Link to this
Did somebody get their feelings hurt? Dawg, robdawg, we all have differences of opinions. That’s no reason to take your ball and go home!
By journalist jimmy smith
June 13, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this
scoots must not scoot. stay the course. journalist jimmy smith suggests maybe bobby cox should be shut down for numbness. what is he thinking? before mbatl answers - yes, jimmy smith knows … he has won 14 straight division signs. why would he pitch reitsma with numbness in his fingers? the results were always the same. now, francoeur comes up with mccann on second base and nobody out. when he did make contact did you see where the ball was hit? foul at third. did terry/will terry come to francoeur and tell him to push one of the outside pitches to the right side? no, not one that bounces to the plate or that is two feet off the plate - but one of the many outside pitches he sees every at-bat. now, betemit … soon he will have numbness in his seat. why is he not playing? now, thorman … what does it matter if he bats left-handed? jordan does not hit and he does not field. this team needs someone who can hit the ball. now, mccann … bring his daddy in as hitting coach.
By SC-Brave
June 13, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this
Put Renteria in the leadoff spot and move Giles back to 2nd, where he is “comfortable”.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this
Opinions are fine and welcomed. But basic baseball fundamentals can’t be argued. The score would likely had been 1-1 if Cox had instructed Francoeur to bunt McCann to 3rd so a sac fly scores him. Who cares if its the 3rd inning ? When your team has problems scoring runs and is facing a good pitcher (1.95 ERA, that’s right less than 2 runs per 9 innings) you try to capitalize on ALL scoring opportunities. But obviously Bobby Cox and scoots thinks Francoeur is Babe Ruthian and is above bunting ? The result was a strikeout and still 1-0 Marlins. We need a new manager along with a new bullpen and leadoff hitter.
By elbravox
June 13, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this
4letter word, it was a great ride///////////
By Dick Hertz
June 13, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this
Holy moley! Did you see that shot of Bobby’s gut hanging out! Let’s see… 65 + huge gut =not going to be around too much longer. Then again, there was Tommy Lasorda…
By MBATL
June 13, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this
robdawg06, you may know BB better than I do, but I really don’t think playing for a tie on the road in the 3rd is good fundamental baseball.
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this
Let’s see… LaRoche is pulled for Jordan… Is there such a thing as worse and worser?
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:22 PM | Link to this
LMAO Hertz !
By Bob, journalist
June 13, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this
Ncscoots, it’s impolite to leave before the end of the last act! Besides, you’re part of the reason good folks visit … leaving will only make things worse for those who remain … and that’s unacceptable behavior.
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this
Francouer is a bad bunter, and nobody has proven that they can score a guy from 3rd anyway. I personally would rather have Franc hacking in case he hits it. But, that is only my opinion.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this
That “win on the road” “tie at home” crap is bull. You’ve got to tie the game first. What’s better a tie after 3 innings or down 1-0 after 3 innings ? The answer is 1-1 whether you are playing at home or on Mars. Geez !
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this
BTW - Remember the bunting accident Franc had in the minors? He broke his face and lost half a season. Not pretty…
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this
Francoeur is a rookie with speed. He’s not Albert Pujols or Andruw Jones he would hit 4th. He hacked away alright and K’d again.
By Apex
June 13, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this
Same Lineup….Same Results….
By chipster
June 13, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this
Renteria and Smoltz are probably the only players on this team that know how to bunt.
By MBATL
June 13, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this
Frenchy is more likely to hit a 2R HR than to get down a good bunt… AND IT’S THE 3RD INNING! Lot’s of problems for this team, but that call wasn’t one of them.
By TennesseePaul
June 13, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this
In the time it took me to get home from work, the Braves managed to strike out 10 times.
There is no need to “press” now. Reitsma is gone. THere is every frickin reason in the world to swing the bat with fundamentals! For crying out loud!!!
I point my finger squarly at Terry “stay aggressive” Pendelton.
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this
You’re still assuming they execute the bunt properly and then bring the guy in from 3rd. That’s 2 big assumptions. They’ve not proven proficient in either of those things lately.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this
Ok. Francoeur can’t/won’t bunt. He’s a power hitter with 6 home runs and 75 K’s. If he can’t bunt then he shouldn’t even be on the team. A freakin’ pitcher can bunt.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this
What’s the better odds ? A hit scoring him from 2B or an out scoring him from 3B ?
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this
You realize, of course, this is a silly argument…
By MBATL
June 13, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this
Now you’re just making up stats, rob. Come on.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this
Boy, Cox will be defended till death I see now. He writes the players names in and makes pitching and hitting changes. The players execute or not. He’s overrated. You give me Maddux,Glavine,and Smoltz for 10 years in their prime and I’ll win 10 straight NL East titles too.
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this
If the Braves had tied it at 1-1 in the 3rd, would it have changed the complexion of the game? No. They still give up runs they shouldn’t give up, and they still strand runners they shouldn’t strand and miss pitches they shouldn’t miss. It’s another loss either way.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this
Both Francoeur and Diaz made outs. So how crazy is a sac fly as the 2nd out after a bunt was the first out ? Wow !
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this
Not necessarily. 1-1 instead of 1-0 may have changed the morale of the players. Any change would have directly affected the future outcome of EVERYTHING.
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this
You assume much, grasshopper…
By Apex
June 13, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this
Well played Braves…….another Loss…
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this
Sorry. Francoeur 13 Hr’s and 53 K’s.
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this
IF they had scored they MAY have performed better. And, IF Mama Cass had given Karen Carpenter her sandwich, they MIGHT both be alive today.
By MBATL
June 13, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this
robdawg06; hindsight is of course 20/20. If we KNEW Jeff and Diaz would make outs, and we KNEW that if asked to bunt Jeff would have succeeded, and we KNEW Diaz would then drive him in… if we knew all that in advance, sure, you’re right. But at the time, given the players, given the circumstances, it was the right call. Let it go… at least, I’m going to.
We can discuss the hideous faults of HOF mgr Bobby Cox another day.
By Rob
June 13, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
“Robdog, could you come manage my baseball team?”
Sincerely, No owner/GM with an ounce of brain cells left
By krath
June 13, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this
I agree totally with TPaul. Maybe it’s time everyone stops thinking about “Chicks dig the long ball” and start thinking about putting the ball in play. You have to blame management and coaching for allowing players desire to swing hard on every pitch because they want to drive the ball out of the park, over-ride common sense baseball. Geez if you have to, teach them little league fundamentals like choke up with two strikes and try to put the bat on the ball!
Good point made on the video broadcast of the game the other night when it was pointed out that when the team strikes out 12 times in the game, that is 4 full innings that they didn’t even put the ball in play!
On another note, do the Braves really want to overpay Marcus Giles next season to stay? Wth the huge salaries even mediocre veterans command at free agency, I don’t think the Braves will pay for him.
That being said it makes absolutely no sense NOT to move him. Get something for the future if not for today for him. The Braves are gonna be 11 out in about 30 minutes..(Mets winning big again)it’s time to look at changing some pieces to the puzzle.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this
No. You assume that Francoeur will get a hit. I assumed he would K (which he did). So a bunt was the right move. If you continue calling me names I will be forced to respond. I’ve got your grasshopper in my pants.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this
Its a shame I share the same name with an idiot.
By Dick Hertz
June 13, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this
Well, another L. The important thing is Giles got to leadoff and get 5 more at bats. One must have one’s priorities.
By Voice of Reason
June 13, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this
BTW - I was not calling you a grasshopper. It was an homage to a 1970’s TV show called Kung Fu in which the master called his student “Grasshopper.” And don’t get all bent thinking I’m calling you my student. Man, you’re sensitive…
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this
Let’s stop the diatribe. You folks can be zombie’s to Bobby Cox. Just remember all the bad managerial moves in the playoffs (Joey Devine slam,Charlie Liebrandt homer to Puckett,Reitsma staying in to allow 6 runs to the Astros and I was right there at that game,etc.). You praise him for the regular season but its the player’s fault in the post season ? Yeah right.
By robdawg06
June 13, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this
Come back scoots. I’m leaving. Goodbye.
By MBATL
June 13, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this
VOR, funny stuff (Mama Cass, etc). Later, Kwai Chang Kane (sp?).
By Head Coach
June 13, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this
I feel for you guys , I’m watching Schilling and Santana going head to head and its awesome. 1-1 in the 7th , 18 strikeouts and a hell of a game. Reitsma is numb ? where ? between the ears ? Call up the farm , trade the veterans , abandon ship , lol. No , for real , folks its over. Back to the Redsox & Twins gem.
By journalist jimmy smith
June 13, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this
journalist jimmy smith has never seen so much viciousness on this blog - at least viciousness not aimed at journalist himself. in the spirit of compromise journalist suggests that francoeur might have swung with the intent of hitting number 14 on the first ball he was thrown, or perhaps on the second ball he was thrown. failing to drive either pitch perhaps he could have shortened his grip on the bat and pushed the ball to the right side. this would advance the runner and perhaps allow a sac fly to score the runner. laroche did in fact hit a fly-ball. still, they would have messed it up. the marlins have better fundamentals than these braves. hof = hiding one finger?
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this
Is Bob Howry of the Cubs available?
By eric the elder
June 13, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this
I’m not one to bash a HOF manager, but listening to Bobby talk about his team and his players is like listening to Dick Cheney talk about Iraq. It’s all spin, sugar coating, cover up. I don’t know why reporters bother to interview him because they get nothing but tripe and drivel.
So now he wants us to believe that a pitcher with numb fingers can’t control where the ball goes (really? duh!), and that he knew Reitsma has had this problem for a while? Yet he has marched Reitsma out there to blow game after game after game? Getting ejected from a game to protect players is one thing, but sacrificing his self-respect and insulting the intelligence of the fans is quite another. It’s time for some straight talk.
Maybe his players want to run through a wall for him, but right now all they are doing is butting their heads against it.
By Rob
June 13, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this
14 straight! Bobby doesn’t need to explain anything to you tools!
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this
As pay back for sending us that turd Kolb, would the Brewers deal Carlos Lee (which they’ve discussed) for Giles and some prospects?
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this
They could toss in Capuano, too. He’s only making $400k
By Miles
June 13, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this
just gut this sorry a* team….they are pathetic.
By Glass Half Full
June 13, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this
I just realized that I said ONLY and $400k in the same sentence
By Jman
June 13, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this
Well guys you might as well hang it up. The white flag is waving. The front office hasnt officially waved the flag yet, but the players are doing it every night. They have NO DESIRE to win!!! They are losing and are fine with it! They’re getting their paychecks. Chipper Jones could care less. John Smoltz could care less. If there was a true leader on this team someone would be standing up and getting angry over this losing streak. From what I heard the other day right after they had just lost to continue their 5 game losing streak they were in the clubhouse watching the tv pulling for their teams and making jokes like no one had lost anything! It’s sickening that these guys can do this. They tried to grow the gotee’s and that didnt work. Forget it guys this team is beyond repair!
By Jimbo
June 13, 2006 10:36 PM | Link to this
Kroger gives $50 to charity every time a Braves pitcher strikes out an opposing player. Good thing they don’t give $50 every time a Braves player strikes out…they would have to file for Chapter 11.
By Jimbo
June 13, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this
Exactly how many games has Betemit started since Bobby proclaimed we have to get his bat in the lineup?
By Jimbo
June 13, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this
Can someone tell me why we need to trade for a closer when our set up men can’t get us to the 9th? If we are losing when the starter comes out they can’t even hold the score til the 9th.
By D from Tennessee
June 13, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this
SOS _ SOS_ SOS
Chipper is chicken. In the seventh inning he took two pitches too close to take with two outs and one on. It’s obvious he wants to pass the responsibility for driving in runs to Someone further down the batting order. That isn’t the mark of a leader. Terry (Pendelton) can’t bunt. Braves can’t advance the runner. On a good team everyone knows how to Bunt.; Sousa is a batter, not a pitcher. Let him pinch-hit. Bobby’s lost his groove. Braves did better before his anger management classes. Where’s the bad cop. Bobby is loved, needs a tough counterpart. How did Furcal escape. No leadoff, no speed. Where is Leo? No one to control the pitchers.
By Bob, journalist
June 13, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this
We will allow “worser” … Braves’ “coaching” and management decisions will certainly have to get better before they’re good … right now, things can’t get much worser. Could be that it’s already worse than worser … I think maybe it’s just plain bad!
Most everyone is looking for trades to solve the problems and right the ship … I think it somehow goes deeper than inadequate talent. I suspect that we’ll never really get the skinny … and rightfully so.
Have we won a game since Wilson last started? Can you imagine getting the opportunity to start … performing better than expected … having your manager say publically that you’ll be getting the playing time you deserve … and then having to ride the bench and watch your team lose, lose, lose?
If things continue as they’re going, the new owners won’t be saddled with the stigma of being responsible for ending the streak … or will they?
By Jimbo
June 13, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this
EX-Brave Joe Borowski (remember him) have converted 10 of 11 save opportunities. Amazing isn’t it?
By Robert
June 13, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this
14 stright, 14 schmate
Raise your hand if you think the only thing more impressive than winning 14 straight division titles would be if the Braves had won say 22 staright Little League World Series (personally I think that Danny Almonte kid would’ve shut them down)
Years from now, when all this bickering is long in the past, and history stands as the true judge of the Braves legacy, there will of course be a book written about these Braves we constantly bicker about
The book will be titled “The Donkey in the Dugout”
By Robert
June 13, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this
The Braves have in fact HAD a masterful leader in the dugout for the past fifteen years
His name was Leo Mazzone
Now that he is gone, the only thing left in the dugout is the stench of the farm animal that manages the team
By gotigers72
June 13, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this
I know Time Warner is to blame for the current state of the Braves. I wish MLB would encourage local ownership [Arthur Blank], rather than let a corporation BASED IN FREAKIN’ COLORADO NO LESS, purchase the Braves.
That being said, the Braves could improve without spending any more money by bringing up the 3 guys mentioned in this article, and trading one or several of their current players for others making the same amount of money. As several others have said, they couldn’t be any worse.
And what has LaRoche done to be the starter in front of Thorman? I would play Thorman, trade LaRoche, use Betemit some at first [if you can play one corner infield position, you can play the other], release Jordan, release Remlinger, send down Villareal, etc., etc. I can’t believe Bobby said Reitsma hand problems are the reason he has been so bad lately. If that is so, what is the reason he has been so bad since last August? I believe some kind of injury was given as the excuse then. Face it, the guy is at best a middle reliever.
By JJ
June 13, 2006 11:16 PM | Link to this
PHIL STOCKMAN will be the closer by the end of the season
By Kentavo
June 13, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this
Reeksma’s injured. Right. Numb fingers. Sure. And I’ve got some ocean-front property in Kentucky that I’ll sell to Bobby Cox.
By Mothball
June 13, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this
The Braves won 14 straight in a sissy, weak division. Now that the worm has turned, it’s not so fun anymore. BC is a worthless tactician and totally at fault for only one World Series Championship (Well, Wohlers chipped in a little).
Someone ought to be kicked square in the nuts for trading our leadoff hitter, not replacing him, and forcing Giles into a spot that he is obviously unsuited for. Someone recently spoke of Giles’ 50 double seasons being a result of getting fastballs due to Furcal being on first. I couldn’t agree more.
After we drop this series to the Marlins, what do you think is going to happen going up against the AL East? Ain’t gonna be good, folks.
By Beachcomber
June 13, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this
One third of the cancer has been eliminated. The DL thing is nothing but a precursor to DFA. Now about Jordan and Pratt. Oh that’s right, Pratt is “mentoring” McCann. How - by constantly dropping the ball in close plays at home plate or is it the every game 0h fors with two K’s?
By Kentavo
June 13, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this
Furcal was not traded.
By TheSouthernJackAss
June 13, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this
It’s no fun anymore!…..Pointing out how pathetic the Braves are, top to bottom!…..pointing out what retarded morons you Braves fans are!…..It’s just no fun!…..even Ron Roberts is beginning to make sense, not alot, but some!…..it’s just no damn fun anymore, that’s how bad this Braves team is!…..I just can’t do it any longer…..it’s kinda like kickin’ your retarded cousin in the nads!…..it’s just not right!…..hell, I’m outta here you pinheads!…..GO BRAVES!!!…JUST GO AWAY!!!…
By journalist jimmy smith
June 13, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this
toes. numb toes. no one on the team will admit it, certainly not bobby cox. it is not numb fingers, but numb toes. a toe will do you in quicker than anything. a toe stretches to the heart. a toe connects to the fiber of one’s being. a toe is a toe is a toe. how, so? if reitsma has a numb toe does that not explain his hop on the mound that was pointed out by distinguished blogger penn? now, fingers and toes should remain out of the nose, but one thing we know, reitsma can’t close. selah.
By Mothball
June 13, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this
Sorry, got caught up in the moment and forgot we couldn’t pay him. Not exactly the point though.
By chipster
June 13, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this
Scott Thorman hit his 15th home run and Chuck James struck out 7 in 6 innings tonight at Richmond. I really believe that BC running Reeksma out to the mound so often put this team into such a funky depression that they may not be able to dig their way out
By Todd A
June 13, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this
How many touchdowns will Thompson give up tommorrow?
By Penn
June 14, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this
There’s really not much to add so FERGEDDABOUTIT.
I watched the pathetic spectacle from my S. Florida home after putting up with the barbs from my 7 liars’ poker playing buddies this morning. I warned ‘em to lay off. I’m going to steer of them for the rest of the week. Maybe they will forget before next Tuesday.
Did anyone see Giles’ big eyes that last time he K’d? He really did look like he was staring into the headlights of a huge 18 wheeler, while it was bearing down on him. I felt sorry for him at that moment.
I’ve been a Cox supporter for many years but he has convinced me lately that his heart isn’t in it anymore. I wonder if he’s hanging around for the money while actually wishing he was up in Adairsville on his bush hog.
By Jimbo
June 14, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this
Moth….Furcal was the most fundamentally challenged player I have ever seen. He was worse then the current group of stiffs.
By Jimbo
June 14, 2006 12:06 AM | Link to this
Penn…..Giles needs to get back on the juice.
By Tommy
June 14, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this
Wake up and quit blaming Marcus Giles for the mess. I gaurantee you he will be hitting .280 before years end. He and Brian Jordan are hard nosed players who come through in the clutch. Giles should hit 2nd with Rent leading off. I’m not a fan of Betemit. I’ve never seen someone take so many called third strikes that are right down the middle. Swing the bat. The bullpen is obviously the problem.
By Penn
June 14, 2006 12:12 AM | Link to this
Oh that was bad. It should have read:
I did watch the pathetic spectacle from my S. Florida home tonight after putting up with the barbs about the “pathetic Braves” from my 7 liars’ poker playing buddies this morning. I warned ‘em to lay off. I’m going to steer of them for the rest of the week. Maybe they will forget about the Braves before next Tuesday.
One other comment; that McCann kid can play baseball. He has a beautiful LEVEL swing. I wish Francoeur and Giles would watch some films of McCann’s swing and of Renterria’s. If they could mimic those too we’d have four good hitters on our hands instead of two. And that would take care of the offense.
What does that batting coach job pay?
By Bob, journalist
June 14, 2006 12:16 AM | Link to this
Adhering to good fundamentals doesn’t necessarily dictate bunting a runner from second to third with no outs early in a 0-1 game but for those deciding against the bunt strategy, is does suggest at least attempting to increase your chances of advancing the runner while hopefully getting on base, via better bat control … especially for those who hit homeruns about 5% of the time.
Better bat control might be a good idea at any time for those hitting under 400 and striking out a lot.
Regardless, it would be a sad commentary indeed to suggest that any major league player should not be expected to successfuly bunt a player over better than 1 time in 5 … much less 1 in 20.
More importantly, John Carradine had no problem being referred to as the father of the Grasshopper … what a voice of the braves he would have made … and Kwai Chang would have been puzzled and dismayed by the boorish reaction.
By Penn
June 14, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this
Tommy, Giles is the one to blame. He has an uppercut that only allows him to make contact with the ball at ONE PRECISE POINT during his swing. That will never work.
If he was swinging on a level he could make contact at any point, regardless of the speed of the ball and he could hit it from the left field line to the right field line. An uppercut CANNOT WORK, will not work and so long as he insists on using it he will fail.
Every good hitter swings on a more or less level plane. Just watch it and you will see it.
I appreciate your loyalty to Jordan but the man’s career is OVER. He is finished. He ought to go to Cox and request his release. My pride would not let me hang on with his performance.
By Submariner
June 14, 2006 12:30 AM | Link to this
Commence rebuilding!!!!! Time to conceded and start the process for next season. Missing the post season will be good not only for the team, but the city of ATL. Players are complacent and fans are spoiled. Including me! I’m ready to come to terms with it all and just start the process of trying to put a quality product out there next year. This group stinks!
By Penn
June 14, 2006 12:30 AM | Link to this
By the way Giles is hitting .235 with his uppercut while McCann is hitting .368 with one of the best level swings I’ve seen in years.
McCann also understands and sees the strike zone. We are looking at what could be one of the top hitters in the game for years to come.
Francoeur will never reach that level of hitting for average unless he learns to follow the path of the ball. If he does he’ll be unstoppable. Right now he judges the pitch when it leaves the pitcher’s hand and he decides at that moment to swing no matter if the ball is hittable or not. It’s painful to watch when you know the guy has all that power. It is no good unless he makes contact. McCann is by far the more valuable of the two….by FAR.
By CIA
June 14, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this
“Bob, journalist”?…..I don’t believe I’ve read any of your journalistic pieces other than here on this blog…..What major newspaper, or media conglomerate are you employed by??…..or maybe you’re just an aspiring, freelance author from the monolithic, rambling, monotonic diatribes that you constantly effuse upon this blog…..or maybe you’re just a jack of all trades, but master of none!!…..
By teoa
June 14, 2006 01:48 AM | Link to this
Bob, I couldn’t agree more…absolutely no excuse for a lot of moves Bobby is making this year. Wonder what the treatment is for “numbness of the fingers”…Prozac? Maybe Reitsma could share a little with Bobby, because I think the dreaded airborn variety of the “numbness” has now spread to Bobby’s brain. While they’re at it, pass a few pills around to Jordan and LaDouche — Jordan’s been infected with the kind of “numbness” that has caused him to play for 5 years longer than he should have, and Bobby’s and Scheurholtz’ “numbness” keeps them from releasing a player that isn’t good enough to make anyone else’s Triple A team at this point. And of course we all know what kind of “numbness” LaDouche has…
Reitsma had to know he was on the verge of being released and losing a fat salary that he has earned by having the destinction of being the worst closer in major league history. So what does he do? Hmmm…maybe it’s time to tell them about the mysterious injury he’s conveniently neglected to mention all this time. I’m sure he knew that Bobby would be dumb and/or senile enough to buy it. I’m guessing he’s going to get a nice 15 day paid vacation and then get to come back and blow lots more games while the Stockmans and James’s go back to rotting in Richmond. Nevermind the fact he has sucked for his entire career — that was all because of the “numbness,” right Bobby? I hate to say it, but this team is hopeless. Even if the solution to most of the Braves’ problems lies in Richmond right now, I think the manager and general manager are too incompetent to know it at this point, even if Stockman and James and Thormon walked up and hit them over the head with a bat.
By teoa
June 14, 2006 02:09 AM | Link to this
Robert, I agree…I’ve had a suspicion all these years that Leo was actually more instrumental to the Braves success than Bobby. And please, no one needs to tell me the stats of the Baltimore pitching staff — it takes years to establish a new pitching philosophy throughout an organization, so that even the minor league instructors are teaching guys the right way to pitch from the time they are 18 in most cases. No one else can take a Sosa or a Wright or a washed up Burkett or Reynolds and get a solid year out of them like Leo could. He justified a million dollar salary just by working one of his miracles every year where he got a 2-3 million dollar performance out of a 500K player. And he’s not worth trying to keep?
To me the defining moment of this season happened when the Braves said they would rather save 500K on a rookie pitching coach and let the greatest pitching coach in history leave. That said everything to me about managements priorities — obviously winning has moved pretty far down the list. Going into the season with Reitsma as closer, Jordan on the roster, and no leadoff hitter said the rest. Mix in a little incompetency/senility: refusing to call up minor leaguers that obviously have more potential than the major leaguers, thinking that Remlinger can suddenly get lefties out despite the fact he hasn’t been able to do that for the past 65 years, refusing to play Betemit at first even though the Braves have the worst first basemen in the league, using the worst relief pitcher in all of baseball for most of the season in the 9th inning of close games, etc, etc…Guess what you get? The 2006 Braves!!! Mission accomplished!!!
By teoa
June 14, 2006 02:12 AM | Link to this
Forgot to mention trading an All Star catcher for two no talents like Villarreal and Cormier, while apparently missing an opportunity to get an All Star closer in Brian Fuentes.
Anyway, you get the point…this team hasn’t even been given a chance to succeed.
By Bob, journalist
June 14, 2006 02:13 AM | Link to this
Penn … you’re something! Misdirection won’t work on the blog … that’s only good if your name starts with Bobby and ends with Cox.
However, your Giles analogy was on the money and there may be more to Bobby’s possible apathy than any of us would like to think … many possible causes … but, the job doesn’t seem to be getting done.
Braves’ Hitting Coach seems like a good job to me … Terry has them so well trained that it allows him to take long vacations without ever being missed.
However, as much as you deserve a shot, McCann’s daddy should have the inside track on the job!
Tommy, don’t be too harsh with those who point to Giles and Jordan as being part of what’s wrong with the braves offensively.
I agree with you that they both give their all … and during his initial tenure with the Braves, Brian was my favorite player because of his spirit and extra effort.
That said, it appears to me that it takes aggressiveness and overacheivement by Giles to effectively compete offensively; plus, his hitting setup begs to be exploited … which doesn’t mean that he can’t or won’t be successful … but does suggest that he will probably be inconsistent … not a trait that we really don’t want if we can avoid it.
It’s argued that Furcal made Giles a more successful hitter … and I subscribe to that theory. But that isn’t to suggest that Giles should be the number two hitter in the lineup … only that we need a good “bat control” hitter, who’s also a good baserunner, leading off … not Giles.
Wilson does strike out a lot … 24% according to the latest stats … but excessively taking called 3rd strikes is a correctable weakness that should improve over time with good coaching and experience. His natural talents certainly appear to me to exceed those of Giles … as does his current level of performance.
I was pleased when Brian Jordan made the team! Unfortunately, it looks to be all but over for him … hitting just .219 and striking out 24% of the time … his bat speed makes him one to be exploited as well. Most will agree that he’s made a valiant effort defensively but I must admit that his level of play has been only marginally acceptable.
By BravesWizard
June 14, 2006 02:49 AM | Link to this
This is the best solution for the Braves problems, first trade Giles and Langerhans and/maybe a prospect for Devil Rays OF Carl Crawford for LF,then put Betemit at 2B,then trade LaRoche and/maybe a prospect for Twins Closer Joe Nathan,then recall Scott Thorman to play 1B,then put Jorge Sosa in the bullpen and recall Chuck James and Phil Stockman.
And This Will Be Your Sweet Line-Up>> (1)C.Crawford-LF, (2)E.Renteria-SS, (3)C.jones-3B, (4)A.Jones-CF, (5)B.McCann-C, (6)J.Francoeur-RF, (7)S.Thorman-1B, (8)W.Betemit-2B
For The Rotation>> (1)T.Hudson, (2)J.Smoltz, (3)H.Ramirez, (4)J.Thomson* (5)C.James Put K.Davis* (4) when healthy
And in the Bullpen>> Joe Nathan is my closer and K.Ray is the setup man
So What Do You Think About That ???
By Chop Chop
June 14, 2006 03:33 AM | Link to this
Thorman has never spent a day in the bigs. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be given the opportunity to replace the vacuous-hole-of-suck-that-is-Brian-Jordan, but he’s left-handed and there’s no way in Hell Bobby will platoon him with LaRoche. I don’t think LaRoche is going to be traded, so if Thorman is going to play for the Braves this year, it will have to be in left field. Since he’s been playing left in the minors some this year, that should be enough preparation for him. Because of this, I think the odd man out will probably be Langerhans. Yeah, yeah. He plays very strong defense, but guys with his hitting ability (or lack thereof) are a dime a dozen at the Triple-A level. He’s looking more and more like a 4-A player. A ‘tweener, so to speak.
I think Diaz could handle first and left in a platoon. He, like so many others on this team, strikes out too much, but he’s always hit for a high average in the minors and should continue to do so in the bigs. If Giles is traded (probably with Langerhans), you can slot Betemit in at second base.
I dread doing this, but here’s how I’d set my lineup after making these moves:
(1) Renteria - (It’s time.) (2) Betemit - (I’d hit McCann here if he had any speed…) (3) Chipper (4) Andruw (5) McCann (6) LaRoche/Diaz (7) Francoeur - (I’d hit him eleventh if I could…) (8) Thorman/Diaz - (not sure how Thorman will perform, so I’ll put him down here)
I know what you’re thinking.
“Damn, Chop Chop. That’s a lot of Ks at the bottom of the lineup.”
Tell me about it. The only way that lineup would win a division is if Schuerholz robs someone blind for pitching and bench help OR Thorman hits like Fred McGriff.
I digress.
By Head Coach
June 14, 2006 03:43 AM | Link to this
Only if you put a gun to the head of the Twins and Devil Rays , then threaten to shoot if they dont trade , lol. Well , I got the calculator out and did some number crunching for all you stat nuts.This is position players , not pitchers. The Bravos rank 28th out of 30 teams with 495 team strike outs. Only the Marlins(505) and Brewers(506) have more. Brad Wilkerson of the Rangers is the strike out king with 80 K’s and interestingly enough the Giants with(318) rank 1st in team K’s , it could have something to do with Bonds and all his walks and oldest squad in the Majors. They know how to put the ball in play. Guy’s , the fat lady sang about two weeks ago. Its all over but the shouting , screaming and cursing of a bunch of P.O’d fans . Bring it guy’s , these overpaid , selfish , disinterested , underacheiving , spoiled bunch of millionaires need to be ripped on in all the AJC blogs until management gets the message loud and clear.
By Bob, journalist
June 14, 2006 05:07 AM | Link to this
CIA, it could be that you’ve got me properly pegged … can’t be sure, with all the maybes.
Diatribe is a very good word, one of my favorites, but I’ve honestly tried hard not to be bitter, abusive or excessive in any of my recent denunciations of what I consider to be apathy, amorality, or unacceptable behavior … and it’s never my intent to denounce the individual, only the behavior.
I’m not surprised that others find my posts to be monotonic … I do too … what one sees as truth shouldn’t frequently change.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 05:29 AM | Link to this
Furcal - career thru 2005 - .284 BA, .348 OBP, 96 adjusted OPS, 31.5 steals per season
Renteria - career thru 2005 .288BA, .345 OBP, 95 adjusted OPS, 24.6 steals per season
So losing Furcal was no big deal, since we replaced him
As a team, in ‘05, the Braves hit .265 and slugged .435, 4.74 runs a game
In ‘06 - .264, .437, and 5.06
Now let’s look at the pitching
JSmoltz - 2005 - 3.06 2006 - 3.73 JThompson 4.47 vs 4.84 HRamirez 4.63 vs 5.06 THudson 3.52 vs 3.79 KDavies 4.93 vs 6.12 Reitsma 3.93 vs 9.11(ironically appropriate) Sosa 2.55 vs 5.58
It was LEO. It was ALWAYS LEO
Leo got the maximum talent out of the available material. That’s a coach’s job
Now, before I get to what y’all know is coming, let me say that most individual games pretty much play out on their own, without some particular managerial move deciding the outcome.
The manager’s job is to get the maximum number of wins out of the available talent.
One element of this is “babysitting”. Cox is quite good at this. Happy players will win more games than unhappy rebellious players, no doubt.
But there is a LOT more to it than that. And the indictment starts here
When there are moves and countermoves to be made, Cox is almost always one behind
When it was comparable talent in a short series (i.e. the PLAYOFFS) the only two opposing managers who didnt CONSISTANTLY have Bobby Cox behind the eight ball, one trump behind, were Hargrove and Valentine.
So as far as in game strategy, Cox is reactive rather than proactive. Against comparable talent and managing, that spells doom. Think chess - as long as white makes the optimal move, the best black can do is force a draw
As far as getting a team out of a a doldrums, what Cox does more than anything is NOTHING. This was fine and dandy in the 90’s. For the course of a long season Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz teams didnt need fixing, because they WERENT BROKEN.
When they did need fixing (when down in the playoffs) or a team like this one that needs a whole LOT of fixing to even dream about the playoffs, doing NOTHING will accomplish NOTHING
Now Bobby Cox doing nothing because he refuses to change? In that case, he is as STUBBORNnkey
Or maybe Booby Cox is doing nothing because he sees no need for change, or because he doesnt know how to do anything? In either of these two cases, he is a STUPID as a donkey.
It really doesnt matter which is the case, because either way COX IS A DONKEY.
He is on the short list for worst baseball manager of all time
Someone wanna come back at me with an arguement that goes beyond “14 straight division blah blah blah blah Cox hung the moon?
Im all ………. EARS? :P
By Michael
June 14, 2006 05:36 AM | Link to this
Someone is going to have to explain to me why left-handed hitters can’t hit left-handed pitchers. Did Babe Ruth never face any lefties? Has Bonds hit any homers off any? Maybe the reason any Braves lefty can’t hit lefties is…they don’t face them? Bobby talks a big game about that factor not mattering but then proceeds to play Brian Jordan at first. It’s almost 3 months into the season and LaRoche is hitting better against lefties than Jordan. I’m just shocked that Langerhans doesn’t play center when righties are on the mound since Andruw Jones can’t hit them. Those 50 homers were all against southpaws.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 06:41 AM | Link to this
I always aim to be fair. It must be said that given what the ‘05 Braves had that ‘06 doesnt and versa vica for the Mets, that maybe it was Julio Franco - at least for ‘01 to ‘05
Let’s look at the 14 division titles streak a little closer. Just how good did the Braves have to BE to win those 14 straight division titles? Well, forget how many they won for a moment, and let’s see how many they NEEDED to win
1991 - 94 1992 - 91 1993 - 104 1994 - 6 games back - this season is conveniently forgotten because there was no formal division title awarded 1995 - 78 (corrected to 162 games) 1996 - 89 1997 - 93 1998 - 89 1999 - 98 2000 - 95 2001 - 87 2002 - 84 2003 - 92 2004 - 87 2005 - 89
Now, this analysis does have a slight flaw - If the Braves had won fewer games, that means some opponent of theirs wouldve won more, which means the number is an underestimate. Let’s roughly correct for this - average margin of victory 1991-2005 - 7 games Adds about half a win per opponent, skew it to the better teams and say 1 game - so add one to all the above numbers
The Maddux Glavine Smoltz teams - needed an average of 90.44, add the one for the correction factor to get 91-92 wins
How impressive is 92 wins if you have THREE Hall of Fame pitchers?
The impressive years - let’s start recent
2000, when they needed 96 and didnt have Smoltz - inspired perhaps by The Big Cat?
2004 - Look at those ERAs for Ortiz, Thomspon, Wright, and Hampton. VERY impressive
2005 - The return to the rotation of Smoltzie, the addition of Hudson, and most of all the career year from Andru
and then you get to the good old days
91 and 92, when the young guns found their aim, 93 when they added Maddux as he was entering the unreal core of his prime, and 95
1995 - First round of the playoffs against the Rockies - two games at Coors. The second two rounds, in the 8 games they won, the Braves gave up as many as three runs ONCE. We won the World Series the year the pitchers ran the table.
Conclusions -
1.As a whole,the 14 staright division titles aint the hot __ it’s made out to be
2.The years that are somewhat impressive are quite reasonably attributable to something other than Bobby Cox
To me, Game 1 of the 99 World Series is the ultimate indictment of Cox. Flash back. Maddux ends the seventh by striking out Ricky Ledee on a change up that moved about 8 inches out and eight inches down. He has given up nary a run. The first hitter due up in the eight (Brosius) already has two hits off him. Without a doubt Maddux should be done for the evening, and the bullpen should be brought in to do what it is paid to do. But NOOOOOOO - he comes Maddux being trotted out to start the eight. I mutter something under my breath .Brosius singles. I curse at the screen.Maddux stays in the game Strawberry walks. I throw an empty and some chips at the screen. Maddux stays in the game. By the time Jeter comes to the plate I am repeating over and over, louder and louder “Take him out He is done” Jeter singles and I have I have about blown a gasket screaming “When are you going to him out you g_ stupid F JACKASS!
At that moment, I swear I heard hee-hawing coming from the Braves dugout - and sure enough, Cox makes his “move”
By Robert
June 14, 2006 06:54 AM | Link to this
I know that I have dome some short and vulgar Cox bashing in the past week or so that have turned some people off.
I often cant help myself. I basically hold the man in utter contempt. It comes from being a fan since I moved to Georgia and became a Braves fan in 1987 (yes, it started in the DEPTHS of “The Bad Old Days”
In the posts above, I have attempted to present a fairly detailed analaysis. It is from a combination of this kind of analysis, of reading an unending stream of ridiculous Cox utterances, and from years of watching a multiude of games
To those of you who think Bobby Cox hung the moon, is there one among you who’d care to step up and defend your man?
(I doubt he reads this blog, but boy would I love to hear something from the AJC writer who recently dubbed BC the greatest manager of all time)
By Robert
June 14, 2006 06:58 AM | Link to this
Last word for now
No, I dont really expect to change any minds
I’d just love to hear a REASON that doesnt start with “14 straight …….”
By old timer
June 14, 2006 07:56 AM | Link to this
OK Robert. Long before the 14 straight, Cox got some wins out of those late ’70s, early ’80s teams that had no pitching other than Phil Neikro. Toronto lured him away, and he came back as GM in the late ’80s, about the time you moved here. He drafted the talent that became the ‘91 Braves. JS came in and signed TP and Sid, a couple free agents who could catch the ball. Then came those now taken-for-granted 14 straight.
By KneeJerk
June 14, 2006 07:59 AM | Link to this
Head Coach- The way you continuously throw in the towel, I’m glad I never played for you. With that kind of attitude, I’ll bet your players never ran thru a wall or a paper sign for you. Kinda like Henry Winkler in “Waterboy”.
By Carroll
June 14, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this
What sux the most is that we are losing without our best weapons on the field, without our players putting forth their best efforts, without the best batting order, without the right bullpen moves. This falls squarely on the shoulders of Cox and his stubnborn, blind, ignorant loyalty.
Hey Bobby: “IT’S NOT WORKING!!” So try something else! And when you do try something different (like starting WB at 2nd and leading off the other night) and it works well, STAY WITH IT!!!
By Carroll
June 14, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this
Here’s what the lineup should be:
Betemit LF
Gilly 2B (we have to get him back to the 2nd spot in the order. That can be the ONLY thing that took him from borderline MVP calibur to suckdom).
Renteria
AJ
Chipper (he’s sucking too badly right now to stay in the 3rd spot, but he’s still good enough for 5th where can actually give AJ some protection)
McCann
Francouer
CrapRoach
By Hal
June 14, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this
If Cox reads this blog he truely is senile lolwhat a bunch of vindictive dribble ill give you one reason besides Coxs 14 straight,every player current or past who has played for him says hes the best manager in the majors of course they wouldent know anything about it just being major league baseball players . Not Rocket scientists and brain surgeons lol
By Mets Stink
June 14, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this
Did you see Brian Jordan trying to catch up to those 91 mph fastballs last night? I could throw my 80 mph fastball by him. Maybe he’ll be put on the DL with “numb fingers” too. There has to be a problem, he can’t catch anything at 1B.
By Dubya Cubed
June 14, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this
Carroll, I like the line-up. OR we could use Betemit at 1B with Diaz or L’Hans in left and batting 8th.
Thank, God Reeksma finally admitted that he is “hurt”. Come on BJ, you know something is bothering you. Anybody else in the bullsheeotpen having any problems Bobby needs to know about?
By Yelling Last Night
June 14, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this
What happened to DOB? Did the AJC feel sorry for him, having to cover this train wreck of a team? After hearing from BC that Betemit will start playing more what has happened…2 PH AB’s. WHAT?? My God, is BC just in denial? Giles is obviously freaked out about hitting leadoff, get him down in the order and let ANYBODY ELSE hit leadoff. Hell, let Francour hit leadoff, at least he’s got speed. Glad to see that at least we put Reitsma and Langy on the he,hem…DL. Numbness in the hands and strained hip flexor…yea, right…”boys, in order to let you save a little dignity we’re going to put you on the DL. You decide what type injury you have.” Now if they can do the same with Jordan maybe we can see some life in this team. Folks, the rest of the summer is going to be really sad. This is just one a bad baseball team right now…maybe the worst team in the NL.
By journalist jimmy smith
June 14, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this
journalist jimmy smith agrees with a new three hitter and moving chipper to five. that is a winner! however, bobby will never mover the great chipper jones to the five hole. chipper will be batting third and playing third for as long as he likes. sad, but true. now, betemit … did bobby forget to play him since the last win?
By bobby
June 14, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
A closer seems to be the least of the Braves’ problem. You have to get to the 9th with a chance to win to need a closer.
By eric the elder
June 14, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
There is a big difference between the personal relationship that BC has with his players and the impersonal relationship that we fans have with him. We are focused on performance and results, whereas the players love the guy for other reasons. He protects them, makes excuses for them, pats them on the back when they mess up, coddles them. Who wouldn’t love that? Our own bosses are the same way, right?
What the players see as long-term loyalty and confidence in them we fans see as stubborness and stupidity. I can’t get over the notion that we resent what appears to be a need to stroke the egos of millionaires while we regular folks are left to suffer.
By geauxbraves2000
June 14, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this
I still can understand BC’s obsession with the righty/leftie matchup. He brings Jordan in, who of course strikes out, which LaRoache could easily have done, and now not only is LaRoaches better bat (though not by much) and his superior defense is gone. If I was the opposing manager I too would bring in a lefty when LaRoache came up, knowing that he will counter with the no hitting no defense BJ, and I’d do it with a huge smile on my face.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
JS please tell BC not to allow upper cut Marcus to play. He is killing our chances to trade him with an 0-5 night. Can I get AMEN from the blog nation. TP swing till you make contact has failed your team. Please management ask TP to pack his bags his philosophy won’t work. Just because you are a 300 hitter in the major leagues means you can coach. Its apparent he needs to go. Maybe JS if you would get your butt out of your book and realize maybe BC doesn’t have the drive anymore you might make a change. We need a manager who will get in the teams face and demand more, look what has happend in Florida since Girardi chewed their butt. Some of our veteran players have forgotten how to lead by example and administer some butt kicking when necessary. The Braves will be 18 games out by the break if the attitude doesn’t change. BC you can’y sit there and cross your arms its time for you to show emotion if you want this team to pull themselves out of this funk. The American league games coming up at home will eat us alive. JS pull some trigger now!!!!
By journalist jimmy smith
June 14, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
numbness. this is a good excuse. perhaps laroche went numb at first base during the unforgettable error? did jordan go numb on that pickoff the other night? is francoeur numb at the plate when the ball is thrown low and away? does numbness set in if giles tries to level his swing? maybe andruw is also a little numb when he flails away at the outside pitch for strike three? and the pen, does one get numb sitting out there? what area goes numb first? will thomson appear numb today? what causes numbness? numbness is not to be confused with tingling. and what of reitsma’s numbness? perhaps it is raynaud’s phenomenon which may be brought on by emotional upset. emotional upset may be brought on by watching batted balls leave the field. at least no one yet suffers from toe numbness. toe numbness portends the end of career. more on numbness later in this series. journalist out.
By Chris
June 14, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
To everyone slamming Bobby Cox and John Shuerholz for the team’s performance this year, I suggest you actually go to a game and check out the banners above left field, you know the ones that start with ‘91 and end with ‘05. Those didn’t get there by accident and the two guys you want fired have a lot to do with all those banners.
The Braves are having one bad season…one bad 1/3 of a season to be exact….and all of a sudden everyone finds all the faults in BC and JS. I thought NY fans were the fickle ones. JS and BC are the best in the business, the Braves have had a lot of luck over the years and maybe they are due for a bad season. It’s not the end of the world, if they don’t figure it out before the end of this year, they will by the start of next season.
I love the Braves, but it’s just a game people!
By Robert
June 14, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this
By pulling the trigger start designating some of the dead wood for assignment and promote some of the young kids to get some experience. Giles, Pratt, Reitsma, Jordan, ORR, go pack your bags. The organization has decided to go in another direction. It seems Chipper has lost his power and a step at 3rd base, trade him if someone will take his contract and play Betemit at 3rd base and acquire some young prospects.
By ernesto
June 14, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this
At a certain point, even though he’s not making the pitches or swinging the lumber, this falls on BC. A good manager puts his people into a position for success - BC may be loyal but he’s not putting people in a position to suceed. Marcus is obviously not thriving batting lead off. It’s been 66 games…it ain’t working. I couldn’t believe it when brought Jordan in last night. BJ ain’t cutting it, what else does he have to do to prove that? Give WB a shot at left, if you can’t find and infield spot. Move Marcus back to 2, Put Edgar 3 and Chipper 5. McCann 6. And to pick who whiffs 7 through 9 BC can do his lefty righty magic.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
Andrum Jones is the only one hitting homers. Franceour needs to be out on the field practicing hitting the cutoff man, a fundamental rule in baseball. He has a great arm but he needs to tone it down a little and make fundamental plays. There have been times this year when the proper throw allowed the opposition additional outs. Franceour also needs to work on getting a better jump on the ball in the gap too many hits go all the way to the wall.
By Postal Joe
June 14, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
Chipper’s delusions of grandeur will cost the braves for a good long time. He won’t move because he thinks his stats will look better for the HOF if he stays at third.
The Mets got rid of a similar prima donna, Mike Piazza. They freed up money to get better production. The Braves need to do the same thing.
If Chipper won’t go, bench him. That’ll quash his HOF pipe dreams.
Note to Chipper. The only sure fire way to get into the HOF is to get 500 homers or 3000 hits.
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this
Here is my hope: the Braves historically peak in July, cool off in September, and coast into the playoffs with no momentum. Maybe if they had to scratch and claw all year, they can win the Wild Card and emerge as a “dangerous, hungry team” for the first time since 91-92.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
Yes the schedule does turn in the Braves favor after the break with more games at home. If this team continues to play like they have no one will come to the games. This team is boring and lacks emotion watching on TV. Can you imagine who will pay money to watch this team.
By old timer
June 14, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this
Piazza’s contract was up, so it was a whole different thing. And Chipper has been around .300 all year, so that’s different from Piazza’d last couple years in New York, too. I like trying WB at leadoff. But I’d put him at first because Langerhans, even not doing as well as we’d hoped, is better than LaRoche. Speaking of which, Thorman is ready for the Bigs, but he’s stuck behind…LaRoche? This isn’t like being stuck behind Pujols. It’s more like the ideal situation to get his shot.
By Rob S.
June 14, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
Anyone care to bet on the Braves signing Russ Ortiz now that he’s been released by the D’Backs? Sounds just like a move we’d make right now to “shore up” our rotation.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this
TP this is your offense in a nut shell. Last night we had just scored one run and started to put the pressure on Marlins pitcher. The Team had no outs with a runner on first and second LaRoche works the count to 2-1 and still being ahead in the count he swings at the next pitch and hits into a 4-6-3. There goes a chance for a big inning. Our over aggressiveness caused the team a chance to tie the game and possibly put some big crooked numbers on the board. When is tyoe type of baseball going to stop when you get your pink slip!!
By Robert
June 14, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
The way we are playing no team in the majors wil need advance scouts because the scouting report will never change. Throw the pitch in the dirt or down and way and their aggressiveness will get them out.
By Mets Stink
June 14, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
The team needs somone to step up and get in everyone’s face and light a fire under them. Chipper, Andruw, and Smoltz won’t do it. They are the leaders and should step up. Giles is the only one with a lot of fire. Too bad it only takes the opposing pitcher to put it out. The team’s laid-back attitude has even worn off on Frenchie. Remember last year, when the young guys seemed happy to play? Now they look like they’ve been playing for the no fun Braves for 10 years.
By Greg
June 14, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
I’ve been a Braves fan since 1967. I’ve been warning people for the last 14 years that they should stop complaining about losing in the playoffs. There are worse things to worry about. Welcome to losing for real. Us long-time Braves fans know what it’s like. And just like then, it stinks. I hope we don’t revert back to the 1980s. But this is the worst I’ve seen the Braves play since 1989. Things look really bad.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this
There are only two players currently on this team hitting the ball consistently Brian M. and Edgar. If TP isn’t doing his job mayhe they could provide suuggestions to the other players. Striking out every night and filling the score book with K’s won’t cut it. Its the same old story we K too much with runners in scoring position.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this
John Smoltz, Chipper Jones, Andruw Jones its time to be a leader and get this team kick started. Stop talking about a lack of team confidence in the media and lead by example and light some fire under these players. Are you guys just going to concede that the season is over??
By Robert
June 14, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
When Tampa Bay released Nick Green the Braves should have offered him a contract and released ORR. I don’t care if ORR has blazing speed but Green made contact and had some power.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
Why do other teams admit they made a mistake and make changes to correct the problems. We seem to keep beating our head against the wall over and over again and not making any changes. I guess the plan is to continue status quo and let the value dwindle so Liberty Media will agree to buy the team and run the team into the ground and return this proud city back to the 80’s. You guys are doing a great job following this strategy.
By Blaster
June 14, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
What difference does it make where Giles bats in the order? He can’t hit squat! What is Bobby thinking when he uses Betemit at second base for only the second time in his career and he gets three hits? Betemit’s reward?…sitting on the bench the next day.I’m beginning to agree with some of the other bloggers…maybe Bobby needs more bush-hogging time.
By John Adcox
June 14, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this
Hey, I’m with you guys. I’d LOVE to see Crawford, Willis, and Nathan here as much as anyone. I just can’t believe that any team is willing to take what we can offer right now… especially since we only have one Salty, we need James, and Davies (hurts to think of losing him, but…) can’t be traded while on the DL, even if his value wasn’t at (likely) an all time low. I don’t see that Giles, Thomson, Langy, or Laroche presently has the value to bring any of the three, even as a part of an attractive package. I’d love to be wrong, but I don’t see it.
The problem I see is that we’re just not making the best use of what we have. The line AS CONSTRUCTED isn’t working now, and we’ve seen in the past that a few tweaks, as minor as they seem, can have dramatic effects. Giles needs to be moved further down in the order. Thorman needs to be called up. Betemit needs at bats. Startup needs the call. James needs to be in the rotation.
It’s time to be drastic and try some of the other pieces we have available, to see what minor change might create some better chemistry.
John
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
My thoughts exactly about Russ Ortiz. What does it say about the player when an organization is willing to eat $22 million instead of keeping you on their roster?
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
No matter how badly Jordan and Pratt play, they WILL NOT be released. The organization is too polite…in other words, veterans are given a free pass no matter how ineffective.
By rowland
June 14, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
If we had a switch hitter with a great OBP who runs the bases well and shows occasional power, wouldn’t he help at the leadoff position? Of course he would. We have that guy. His name is Chipper.
By Aaron
June 14, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
You know what really peeves me about watching this team - there’s no emotion any more. Granted, the Braves have always been emotionless husks of human beings, but come on… The ONE time I’ve seen any emotion this year was the “accidental” brushback pitch Thomson floated after giving up that dinger in his last start.
When was the last time a Braves pitcher went high and tight ON PURPOSE after giving up the longball? Al Friggin Hrabosky???
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
The Twins designated Tony Batista for assignment last night. Maybe they need another infielder (Giles).
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this
On another note: Braves up 3-0 over the Brewers in the 2008 NLCS.
By CIA
June 14, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
MAYBE!
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this
These are the times that try men’s souls. Let’s see how this team handles adversity.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this
If the veterans like Jordan and Pratt have no ability on the field let them earn their money by showing veteran leadership and lighting some butt on fire. USe some of your major league experience and gets the youth on this team interested again. There is no sense of urgency from the coaching staff to the veterans.
By Johnny5
June 14, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Joe Borowski has been popping up a lot lately on some of the other forums as being available. He’s cheap, a former brave, and could be had for one of the multitude of prospects blocked by an incumbent. I just wish FL would take Giles…
By student
June 14, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
Glass half full, I don’t see how this is true. No one had a problem telling Mondesi it was time to go last year when it was clear he couldn’t play anymore. Jordan started off well, I still don’t mind him as a pinch hitter and occasional outfielder, I just wish Cox would stop trying to platoon him at first. The guy who should go to make room for Thorman is Pete Orr. Betemit can play third short or second (and should be doing it a lot more), so why do we need another utility guy? As for Pratt, you are just making it clear that you don’t actually understand baseball. He’s a backup catcher for gods sake. You might as well be wondering why the braves leave John Smoltz in to hit every 5 days considering he’s batting around .100. Pratt isn’t out there for his bat, he’s there to be good defensively every five days and to hold down the fort if McCann was to get hurt again. Take a look at rosters around the league and you will find lots of backup catchers with bad batting averages. So please, there’s plenty to complain about, but this Pratt stuff is a red herring.
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this
fla. has their infield set for years…ramirez , cabrerra, & uggla aren’t going anywhere
By rowland
June 14, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
It would be a HUGE MISTAKE for the Braves to trade any young players who have a history of good performance. This team is young and mistake-prone, much like the 1990 last-place Braves who went on to greater things. I hope JS stays the course, tweaks a little here and there, and keeps his eye on long-term return. This season is history - really, it is - but the future is very promising.
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this
I understand Pratt’s role. I was just addressing the bloggers calling for his release.
By Chase
June 14, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this
READ THIS!
This solves all of the answers!!!!!
Everyone knows that the Marlins are desperate to cut salary and get young prospects so here goes….
1 Trade Langerhans, Salty, and two other prospects to the Marlins for D-Willis and Miguel Cabrera who is only making the league minimum for the next two seasons and put him back in left field. Then you have these guys 2 years for no money.
2 Trade Giles for a couple of servicible relievers which will cancel out the money you are paying D-Train and Cabrera and help the pen.
3 Once Giles is gone insert Betemit at 2nd
4 Release Jordan and Pratt and call up Bryan Pena and Thorman to back up at first and catcher. Pena is far better than Pratt and Thorman can’t do worse than Jordan.
5 Move Sosa to the bullpent to strengthen it further.
6 Once Davies is back put Thomson in the pen or trade him for a bench player cutting salary more.
Then you would have a rotation of Hudson, Smoltz, Willis, Ramirize, and Davies.
and a line up that goes Betemit, Renteria, C. Jones, A. Jones, M. Cabrera, McCann, Francoeur, Laroche/Thorman, Pitcher That would be a formidable staff and lineup that wouldn’t raise the current payroll!!!!
Let me know what you all think of these moves…..here’s hoping
By student
June 14, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this
Oh and can we please stop talking about the probelem being a “lack of emotion,” whatever the hell that means. Nobody looks very excited right now because the team can’t win and there’s nothing to get very excited about. The problem is that we have too many guys striking out too much and too many spots in the lineup getting no production. Its not that everyone is insufficiently motivated or something.
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
Shannon Stewart has been on the DL for over 3 weeks and his yet to test his ankle running. Do we want this guy?
By Mets Stink
June 14, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this
Student is right. Pratt is doing what he’s supposed to do. Mentor Brian McCann and call a good game behind the plate. He’s not the reason the Braves are so horrible. Remember Eddie Perez and Andy Bako? They didn’t exactly tear it up.
Send down Orr and bring up Thorman. Put BJ out of his misery.
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
the hitters are pressing because of the struggles of the pitching staff (thomson, sosa, villareal, & reitsma mainly). The other pen guys are actually o.k.
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this
before anyone comments: I know thomson & sosa aren’t in the bullpen…they will be, though.
By student
June 14, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this
Chase, some of this is doable and some of it isn’t. I’m not convinced the Marlins would give up Cabrera and Willis for a few prospects and Langerhans. The problem is that Thorman is a lefty just like Laroche so platooning him doesn’t make much sense. Its great to talk about trading Giles, but I doubt that anyone is going to give us fair value for him at the moment. No matter how bad a season he has had I still think Giles will turn it around eventually and I don’t know if we want to be the team that traded him for two middle relievers.
By Glass Half Full
June 14, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this
giles is gone after this year anyway so why not trade him?
By Penn
June 14, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
A quote from above:
“To those of you who think Bobby Cox hung the moon, is there one among you who’d care to step up and defend your man?”
Yes, I’m willing to defend him, at least his past performances. Bobby Cox was the GM who built Toronto’s WS team and he is the GM who got Atlanta rolling with drafts that paid huge dividends in the next 14 years. And he is the guy who was sitting in that dugout through all 14 of those winning years whether you want to admit it or not.
And John Scheurholz was the GM who built KC’s WS team and then came to Atlanta when Bobby agreed to move to the dugout.
The two have been hugely successful. No other professional team in any sport can match their record and I submit that was NOT ALL LUCK.
Are they doing a good job this year? The answer is clearly negative but to try to say they have been bums for 15 years is really off the wall.
Have a nice day.
By Chase
June 14, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
STUDENT: Salty is not just “any” prospect to give up to the Marlins….he is regarded as the top prospect in the Braves’ system and one of the highest rated prospects in the minor leagues—-Langerhans has major league experience and a SS (a place where the Braves are deep) like Elvis Andrus #2 prospect or Tony Perez would sweeten the deal for the Marlins so they would give up Cabrera and Willis.
Also at this point McCann doesn’t need a mentor so lets get someone up here that can contribute off the bench like Pena.
Giles is gone after this season so who cares about “fair market value” just get a serviciable reliever or two for him and dump his salary so you can pay Willis and Cabrera for the next 2 years and get Betemit in the lineup.
If none of this happens at least move Chipper to first base (if Jordan can do it Chipper can) and put Betemit at third so the line up could go
Betemit, Giles, CJ, AJ, Renteria, McCann, Francoeur, Laroche….with Betemit hitting first you would get Giles back to his comfortable 2 hole and by putting Renteria 5th, Andruw would actually get pitches to hit and they wouldn’t be able to pitch around him so much…..
Also about Thorman being left handed—-who cares? Do you see Giambi or Delgado coming out of the game just because of a Lefty on the mound? No WAY…that lefty righty thing is overblown!
Comments Please
By spanish
June 14, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
Rob you’re an idiot. Seriously. “Be thankful for what we have? Relax?” Are you kidding??? We’re 11 games out of first place, 4 in front of the MARLINS(!?!?!) and you want us to be thankful and relax? Our players aren’t pulling their weight. I don’t care if Chipper is batting .300. Sure, nice average, but we’re not paying him to hit singles and doubles, that’s what our LEADOFF should be doing. Chipper needs to get his power numbers up. I love the guy, hell my dog’s name is Chipper, but he’s not doing his job right now.
By student
June 14, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
I’m pretty sick of Laroche too, but that doesn’t mean it makes sense to have two left hand hitting first basemen on the roster. Thorman has some good minor league numbers but he isn’t Giami or Delgado yet and while Laroche hasn’t been good, he hasn’t really been bad enough to chuck him either, at least I can’t see it happening, and no one is going to be interested in trading for him at this point in the season. Now Betemit could probably play first as well as Jordan could, but that doesn’t seem to be happening either…
I just think you are living in fantasy land with this trade idea. For one thing, the Braves are going to have to make some kind of run before it even starts to make sense. I’m not suggesting we completely write off this year, but when you are 11 games out, its probably not a good time to start trading away prospects. The problem with either Cabrera or Willis is that they are closer to being free agents than anyone we have in the minors and its pretty likely both of them are going to end up costing more than we can afford after next year. With an uncertain ownership situation do we really want to be selling off the farm system right now?
By student
June 14, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
Oh and as DOB has pointed out a million times, it just doesn’t make sense to move Chipper to first and not Betemit. If someone is going to have to play an unfamiliar position its not going to be a veteran star, it should be the young player without a spot. I’m quite sure that Betemit would be happy to play first if it got him in the lineup more while Chipper would rightly be pretty insulted. Chipper isn’t putting up the power numbers he used to and I don’t know why that is, but as long as he’s getting on base and hitting for a high average and OBP% which he is doing, I’ll live with it. He’s not the problem.
By BJ
June 14, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
As a person that has seen many R-Braves games, Thorman may be hitting, but when he is not - he is a big BABY. Rips his helmet and gloves off - throws them and complains EVERY time he strikes out. He needs to grow up before he gets to Atlanta. Cox won’t put up with that…
By hk
June 14, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
jimmy …
… most sensible analysis I’ve seen for quite a while, think you’ve got their ‘numb’er … have experience a numbness of my own looking at the rest …
By Chase
June 14, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this
Cabrera and Willis wouldn’t be free agents untill AFTER next season. That gives you almost two full season before you have to deal with their contracts and by then who knows, we might have ownership who are willing to spend some money….. it’s hard to compete with a self imposed 80 mil cap when teams like the Mets have a payroll of over 120 million and can add when needed..even the Phillies are spending more money than we are which makes no sense since the Braves have the richest TV contract in baseball and have finished in the top 5 to 7 in attendence for 14 years…every game is televised from which the Braves get money….nobody else in baseball can say that..not even all the Cubs games are televised on WGN—they are split with the Sox…Time Warner execs are sitting up in New York giving us the finger while cheering on the Yanks and Mets and pocketing the excess Braves TV revenues and Ticket sales!!!!!!!!!!!
By Amber
June 14, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
If the D-Backs had it in them to designate Ortiz for assignment, why don’t the Braves have it in them to do the same for Reitsma?? Who sold their soul to the Great Implodo??
I also wish BC would let go of the righty-lefty mentality. And why would it be so bad to have two lefty 1Bs on the roster? Make it up in the other positions. Obviously the platoon is a big joke this year anyway - toss it and try something else!
By alan
June 14, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
For years J.S has always made a deal for good veteran players to give B.C. and the Braves have done nothing but win. However, I spent many a night wondering what Mr. Cox could do with a bunch of youngsters. Well, last year I got my answer. I say keep bringing the kids up and have some fun with it. I know there is a lot of money in this business and I don’t presume to know the best way to manage it. I just like watching baseball. I guarantee you this city would have just as much, if not more, fun finishing second with a bunch of rookies playing wide open than finishing first. I know I would. Just look at the Marlins.
By Robert
June 14, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this
Two decent responses to my indictments of Cox, both of which cite his role as a GM and in drafting some of the guys who became the Braves of the early 90’s
AWESOME! - An easy solution then - Bump Bobby to the front office somewhere.
Evaluating talent and exploiting talent are two totally different things
I am not saying he replace Schueholtz - he could be some kind of special assistant to whoever whatever blah blah blah.
Just get him OUT of the dugout
By robdawg06
June 14, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this
Read back about 25 posts and see where I said Remlinger & Reitsma need releasing. Winning 5-2 in the 8th and they lose. This team is pathetic.
By robdawg06
June 14, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this
The Marlins payroll is like $20 million total for the entire team. Chipper makes $16 million,Andruw makes $15 million,Smoltz makes $16 million,Hudson makes $15 million,Giles makes $5 million,I think Reitsma makes $2 million ! The Braves get beat by a minor league team (which basically the Marlins are excluding D.Willis & M.Cabrera). Unfreakingreal !
By CITYofdecatur
June 15, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
what ever happened to JURIES
By Jerry
June 17, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
Lets look at this reasonably.
Cox #1 needs to learn to quit managing and let the boys play ball. Did you see when Renteria came up the other night with runners on 1st and 2nd and no one out. The Braves hottest hitter and he has him bunt. Now thats just stupid.
It is time for Gilly to go. That upper cut swing doesn’t work and his defense is questionable at best. In this recent slide he has 3 times made questionable throws to places that god only knows. We’re tied and the other teams have runners on 1st and 3rd. Ball is hit to Gilly and he decides to go home with his throw. What would have been a 1 run inning turns into a 5 run rally.
How many more times will Roachy not hustle and cost the Braves a win. Last year he cost us in the playoffs and didn’t get an a* chewing so why should he hustle now. Don’t tell me he’s hustling and it just doesn’t appear that way. Bull Crap. He needs to be gone.
Let Pratt go and let Jordan go. They contribute nothing to the game and just take up space. The young ones don’t need a lead by example of 10 years ago they need some young talent brought on up. If we’re failing with old veterans can’t we fail with young talent also.
Its to bad Kelly Johnson got hurt. His bat is sorely missed.
The last thing on personel says that Chipper must go. When the Braves need a leader he’s not there. Rems play on the bad throw to lose the game shows his poor attitude. Take the blame and move on. His better days are behind him but we should still be able to get something for a trade. Me seems to thinks an AL team would need a designated hitter.
The Braves have no leader and after seeing McCanns interview on Wednesday I have found our new leader. Go get’em McCann. At some point in time the Braves must decide to quit being so bland and profession and start playing with heart. We’ve had no heart since Justice left and we’ve had no leader since then also.
Our bullpen sucks so bring up the young guns. Can they do any worse.
Lastly if you want to trade Hudson then why not move Smoltz back to the bullpen and keep Hudson. Seems like a no brainer. If Smoltz doesn’t want to do that then let him go. Its time for Cox to do whats right for the team and quit being everyones buddy. Loyalty only matters when you’re winning.
Lastly lets look at the position by position players.
Roachy- I think I would rather have someone else.
Giles- Trade him while you can get something for him.
Renteria-This year and next then a young one shold be ready. We’re loaded with shortstops.
Chipper- I can name 15 major league 3rd basemen I would rather have. No leadership skills and his personality is non existent.
Jones, Langerhans and Frenchy. Jones has 3 more good years and lets keep Frenchy.
Now lets talk about coaching Hitting instructor and pitching coaches are terrible. No one can hit the oppisite field (except Renteria) and I’ve never seen a complete collapse of a pitching staff. You must remember. Leo was like Bob Gibson was when he coached with the Braves. I remember he walked out to the mound and told Bob Walk that if there were’nt 20000 people in the stands he would slap him upside his head. Seems to me thats what these Braves need. A general Patton slap to the head. What ever happened to Don Baylor
Thanks and I feel better.