AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > June > 05 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USStill a chance in the NL (L)East
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
For those of you not old enough to remember the cartoon show “Gulliver’s Travels,” there was a gloomy character, I think his actual name was Glum, who would always say with a tone of utter despair, “We’re doomed. We’re never going to make it.”
I’d guess there are a lot of Braves fans feeling a bit like that after the heinous weekend display at Turner Field, where the Bravos were swept aside in a four-game series against the Diamondbacks, making it six losses in the first seven games of a 10-game homestand that has been utterly wretched.
Alas, folks, it ain’t over. Not yet. I know it’s getting tiresome saying “it’s early” and “the Braves have been in this position before,” so I won’t say it. Besides, it’s not THAT early (35 percent of the season is complete, after all).
If the Braves were in the NL West, I’d say it was over. They’d be in fifth place, behind the San Francisco Circus … I mean the the Giants.
But they’re in the East, which is turning out to be rather pedestrian, what with the Mets refusing to run away from the pack and the Phillies just about as erratic and flawed as the Braves. Unless and until the Mets land another ace to add to their thin rotation, I don’t think they’re going to open a lead too large for the Braves to overcome. Now, that could happen. They could add a stud to go with Pedro and Glavine, in which case only a major injury — David Wright, for instance — in their lineup would probably prevent the Mets from winning the division.
They are simply a better team than the Braves, on balance. But again, with their pitching situation, the Mets aren’t assured of anything. The Braves can reel them in, no question. Not saying they will, but can.
OK, what are the Braves’ biggest problems? We all know the bullpen is bad. Really bad. Reitsma not only isn’t fit for the closer job, but at this point, his psyche is so battered, I don’t know if he’s fit for anything other than mop-up work or middle-relief in blowouts. Maybe he’ll get it turned around with a few solid outings in middle relief, but first Bobby Cox has to admit Reitsma has totally fallen on his face and that it’s time — for his sake, the team’s sake, the tortured fans’ sake — to move the big right-hander to a place where he can’t do any more damage.
The Braves simply have to acquire a proven, hard-throwing reliever who can get strikeouts and close games out, because they’re not good enough to win the division or the wild card with so many one-run losses. Such a trade almost certainly means they’ll have to overpay in the form of a prospect or two that they don’t want to give up, but you know what? It’s time.
The division-title streak is on the line, and there’s no sense in building one of the best farm systems in baseball if you can’t use a piece or two once in a while to fill a hole, even if it’s a trade that you don’t “win” — and the Braves have won enough of them to concede perhaps a small loss in terms of getting value-for-value in a deal when desperate times call for desperate measures. This is getting close to desperate, even though it’s June. Not at desperate yet, but like Stuckey’s or South of the Border, the signs are coming up every freakin’ minute it seems. Desperation, just around the corner.
Move Smoltz back to closer? I say no, for a few reasons. One, he doesn’t want to do it, and he’s earned the right, after four elbow surgeries and much blood (or at least fluid from having his elbow) spilled for this team, to not be asked to do a role he feels compromises both his health and his ability to help the team most in the postseason. I know, I know, you have to get to the playoffs first before he can help there, but just remember how many people _ including Smoltz _ were frustrated when he sat in the bullpen helplessly watching the Braves’ postseasons end when he was the closer.
The man absolutely lives for the biggest games, and the biggest games are in the postseason, when he wants to be in control. Can’t do that as closer if your team doesn’t give you leads.
Here’s a stat: Smoltz, the winningest pitcher in postseason history, is 13-4 with a 2.55 ERA in 27 postseason starts, including seven innings of one-run ball last season in a win against the Astros in the division series, when he pitched with a shoulder so stiff that he could barely raise his arm without excruciating pain. Folks, he’s a rare breed, and he needs to be healthy and ready to take the ball for two starts in a postseason series. If the Braves get there, they can win any series with a healthy Smoltz and Hudson pitching the way he is now. Starters are that big in the postseason, as the Braves have been reminded during their recent playoff losses to Big Unit/Schilling D-Backs, Prior/Wood Cubs, Rocket/Oswalt/Pettitte Astros, etc.
In the past three postseasons as closer, Smoltz made a total of six appearances and was 2-0 with a 2.38 ERA and one save in two opps. ONE SAVE.
The Braves don’t need to move one of their two best starters to the bullpen. If anything, they need to add another elite starter to make sure they have at least two healthy aces for the postseason. If they can get Dontrelle Willis, who’s making $4.35 mill this year, the Braves should do it as soon as possible. The Marlins love prospects, and Willis is still so young and good (don’t care what his numbers say this year) that I’d give up — drum roll, please — Saltalamacchia to get him. I would.
Imagine having Willis, whom I think would get straightened out real quick with a move to the Braves, along with Smoltz and Hudson down the stretch drive and into the postseason?
OK, gotta get out to the park, so I can’t get into a few other things I wanted to discuss. But let me just say, Marcus Giles’ leadoff work isn’t at top of list of things killing the Braves. People, he’s hit .310 with two homers, nine runs, 12 RBIs and a .431 OBP in his past 11 games, with only five strikeouts and eight walks in that span. He’s coming around, but I know people still point to him because they’re trying to find the solution to an offense that looks so inept in some games, so explosive in others (mostly inept the past couple of weeks).
I think much will improve when McCann gets back. With the exception of a few games, the Braves have been bad offensively since May 20, the day he got hurt. It’s not a coincidence. He and Renteria have been their best hitters all season.
I still think Betemit needs to be in the lineup at least 4-5 times a week, mostly in LF but also give him a first-base mitt NOW and try him there. B.J. is giving the Braves next to nothing in 1B platoon with LaRoche, and Langerhans has taken a big step back this year in left. Betemit could also spell Chipper once a week at 3B and Renteria once every 10 days or so at SS.
Finally, the Francoeur honeymoon should end. Why is it that everyone else who slumps gets a “rest” but Francoeur plays every day? He’s got all but two — TWO — at-bats by a Braves RF this year, and has the second-worst OBP in the NL (.260), including a punty .240 vs. right-handers. He’s 12-for-64 (.188) with three RBIs and 16 strikeouts in his past 16 games, and Francoeur’s high RBIs for the season are a direct reflection of the fact that he and Andruw have gotten so many more at-bats with runners in scoring position than anyone else on the team, rather than them being more efficient in those at-bats (they haven’t been).
Fromm the RF position, the Braves are last in the NL in OBP (.262) and only 10th in slugging (.432). Again, Francoeur has every at-bat but two at the position. Try Diaz over there from time to time. Move Jordan out there a time or two and have Betemit play first. Something. Just don’t keep waiting for Francoeur to recapture the magic of the second half last season.
Not to claim I was alone in this opinion, but my biggest concern about this team entering the season was the reliance on so many guys who had less than in a major league lineup. A couple of those, Francoeur and Langerhans, have taken a step back.
OK, out of time. Talk to you later.
.JPG)
-1.JPG)
Services »
Comments
By disgruntled in AL
June 5, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Dead on about Francoeur, I don’t care how “agressive” he wants to be, he must become more selective at the plate. His Ks to BBs ratio is an embarassment. If he doesn’t shape up, he will fast become an embarassment as well. No wonder his Franks have quit showing up at the Ted. Who could blame them? It is obvious his problem is lack of patience at the plate and EVERY pitcher he goes up against knows this. Sit him for some games and let him stew on it for a while. Reitsma must go. He might be the greatest guy in the world, but that doesn’t count for jack when he’s out on the mound. He is worse than Kolb ever was.
By nathan
June 5, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
Well put DOB. Time is “tickin”
Couldn’t agree with you more on all points & believe it or not!!!
I have nothing else ot add!!!!!
By ernesto
June 5, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
I hate to say this, (and no one’s hoping they turn it around more than me) but this isn’t all the surprising. I was surprised to hear so many people pikcing the Bravos this pre-season. Of our starting rotation 3 through 5 would be 5’s on other team’s rotations (and Sosa wouldn’t make it on many). All of our rookies, except McCann, have played unevenly to poorly - no shock from rookies. Andruw has been Andruw sometimes great sometimes not, but he hasn’t been the monster he was when he carried the team last year. And Chipper’s just been lackluster good, certainly not the dominant Chipper of old. And the bullpen has been exactly what everyone feared it would be - maybe even a little worse. But we went to a world series with Rafael Belliard playing short so nothing’s impossible. It’s Bravos magic that’s missing more than anything this year - and we’re losing like a lot of average teams.
By Chop Chop
June 5, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
Damn, DOB. You laid it out as plainly as possible in this blog. I hate to say that I agree with so much of it, but…I do.
The main point you make that I agree with is this:
A team wanting to make the postseason has to be willing to make moves with top prospects if it has holes that need to be filled. The Braves moved Marte for Renteria and it immediately paid dividends. Moving a guy like Salty for a pitcher like Willis would make even more sense because Willis is young and affordable. The same thing holds true if the Braves want players like Carl Crawford or Joe Nathan.
Anyway, damn good blog. Keep up the good work, dude.
By Lew
June 5, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
DOB-I can’t argue with anything you said. It is definitely time for some changes. I like the idea of Betemit at first at least part of the time. Dontrelle would be incredible, but could we eat the $4.5 mil salary this year? Next year wouldn’t be a problem with Thomson likely gone-the salary would be pretty much a wash. How close is Chuck James to joining the rotation? He could make it possible to move either Thomson or Sosa to the bullpen, although I’m not so sure that really improves the bullpen. As far as giving up Saltalamacchia in a deal. Would that be a major problem considering the emergence of McCann and still having Brayan Pena as a future backup?
By Rob
June 5, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
I agree that Betemit needs ABs, but why would he go to left field where Diaz is already proving himself very effective as a right handed batter? Unless the assumption is that Betemit would spell Langerhans against right handed pitchers, since Diaz hasn’t been given many ABs against righties.
By Rutuger
June 5, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
Moving Betemit into a rover role is the best thing we can do to add some punch to the slumping offense. I said a couple weeks ago, look at Bill Hall, Chone Figgins, etc.—proof that the rover idea can be successful if properly implemented.
DOB, you think we have an interest in or a shot at landing Dontrelle? That would be sensational, but it seems like the Mutts or Jankees will grab him up instead. Then there are also rumors of the Philthys even having interest in going after him. I think we would have more Minor League prospect appeal for the unloading/rebuilding fish though.
Things are looking bleak, yeah it’s a long season, slumps and streaks, yadda yadda yadda, but there are some serious issues here that go beyond slumps and streaks.
Let us pray.
By Jack
June 5, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this
DOB, we all love your info-filled posts but don’t treat the Braves like a fantasy team with your yearnings that we pick up Dontrelle Willis. He’s a great pitcher, but you’re the reporter (and a good one), not the fantasy player.
By Adam
June 5, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this
DOB: One of your best blogs of the year, and I enjoy ‘em all. Yes, move Salty for Dontrelle if we can get him. Getting even a decent OF bat would be a plus too - we need the help at both corners. It may not be desperation time yet, but in another 10 days if the Braves are 6-9 games back, it’ll be over. Trade now, or concede the division.
By Adam
June 5, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this
And one more thing - has there been any discussion about sending Orr down and bringing up someone that can actually hit the ball? Aren’t we wasting a bench spot on nothing but a pinch runner?
By Chop Chop
June 5, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
Adam, the only time Pete Orr should be on the roster is as a postseason pinch-runner.
By Atlanta Media Guy
June 5, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
Get ready Braves fans! Turner Sports is firing 40% of their TV production staff today. Plus, they were told they would lose their severance pay if they went to work for Fox Sports South. So Turner Broadcasting sells Turner South to Fox and then tells the incredible talented production staff if they happen to work for Fox Sports South they would lose any and all of their severance package. Isn’t that nice? Time Warner is slowly selling off all of Ted’s empire. No wonder Ted left the Time Warner board, why would he want to see his empire completely gutted and sold to his arch nemesis Rupert Murdoch? I’m glad I sold my stock in Time Warner back when it was at 54, seeing where this company is headed today I don’t think we’ll ever see the stock back at the levels when Ted ran the show. Due to Fox’ very tight production budget when the Braves go on the road Fox Sports South most likely will be taking a feed from the home team local broadcasters. I’m sure those producers will make sure we get a fine broadcast that’s up to the standards of the former Turner Sports. Please send your letters to Mark Lazarus and David Levy, the leaders of the dying Turner Sports. What a sad day, the lead director of the Braves, Garry Lehman, is being shown the door today, he had passion for the game and the person most likely to succeed him is a college football and basketball director. This is unreal, just wait with only 45 Braves games on TBS next year, I’m sure Don Sutton and most likely Skip Caray will not have their contracts renewed. 6-6-6 happened a day early at Turner Sports and the once proud sports division is being gutted so TBS can keep you laughing with Raymond, Friends and Sex in the City, reruns, over and over and over again! I’m not laughing… Way to go Time Warner! Keep up the good work. Lower ratings, shotty production and the team is headed south since all the money is being spent on salaries for NBA talent and well TBS programmers really don’t like having to place the Braves on the Program schedule. Well at least the Braves are good.. wait Time Warner is doing their best to make sure the Braves fail too. Ted Turner, where are you!
By Voice of Reason
June 5, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Atlanta Media Guy… That was the kick in the groin I needed after the ol’ one-two I received over the weekend from the Bravos.
By Mitch
June 5, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
DOB, I’m sure you hear insignificant trade rumors every day, but is there anything substantial being bandied about regarding the D-Train or anyone else for that matter?
By Chop Chop
June 5, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
Atlanta Media Guy,
You posted that on one of the other blogs. Where did you get the info from?
By hk
June 5, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
teoa,
… good analysis (your 1:53am post this morning in the other blog) … I suspect as ornery as Leo is, he’ll take some getting used to up in Baltimore … your half a run per game value for Leo got me thinking (hmmm, not much … wait a minute, that’s alot !!) .. I have a weakness for spreadsheets, so
(here)
… my instincts told me you were probably right on the money … got the league stats for hitting and pitching, subtracted runs allowed from runs scored, then ranked the teams accordingly … eyeballing all the numbers, won/lost records, etc, it looks like half a run a game would amount to 5 more wins for the Braves thus far, 14 for the season, would put them right up there with the Mets !!!
… then I thought (I wonder what each Brave is worth in runs per game ???) … I posted a little Braves model a few weeks ago, equating projected performance of each player to final won/lost record for the season (click on ‘Braves’ tab in above spreadsheet) … according to that, Leo-.50 runs per game, Smoltz-.37, Huddy-.34, Andruw-.32, Chipper-.29, McCann-.26, etc etc ….. hmmmm ….
By Robert
June 5, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this
I agree there is still a chance. We could fire Bobby Cox.
Until that happens, we will remain mathematically eliminated from winning the World Series
By Robert
June 5, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
What’s Cox’s runs per game value?
I’m guessing about negative one
By geauxbraves2000
June 5, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this
Well put DOB. Question, we all know the Braves need to make a deal, but will TW let them?
By td
June 5, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
I would make a play for D-train and M. Cabrera, too, but only if some kind of long term deal can be worked out. I have grown tired of getting players for a season or two (drew, sheffield, farnsworth, etc.) In addition to all the problems identfied above, I wonder about LaRoche in the number 5 spot. although his rbis are ok, they don’t seem to be coming consistently, but maybe it is just me.
By Atlanta Media Guy
June 5, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
Hey Chop Chop, I got my information from several people inside Turner Broadcasting. It’s getting uglier by the day inside the fences at Techwood Drive and CNN Center. They are firing people who have over 20 years invested at Turner. I guarantee you if the new bosses had their way there would be no Braves games on TBS. Just look at the Neilsen ratings, they double their audience when they show movies and the re-runs. When I worked at Turner in the 80’s and 90’s we used to run Andy Griffith Show during Rain Delays and the ratings would usually shoot up during this time. There was an exception, during 91, the worst to first year and of course the early 80’s when Torre was manager and they won 13 in a row to open up the 82 season. The new programmers at TBS could care less about the Braves, since they have literally cut the broadcasts from 150 to 125 to 75 and next year just 45 games, over the past 7 seasons. It’s a sad day at Turner Sports!
By bravesfansince66
June 5, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
DOB I agree that the time is right for some major shakeups, to instill some passion in this team which is sorely lacking. How about some of these as alternatives.. let Francoeur find his swing again at Richmond and give Diaz some RF time. Release Reitsma and Jordan. Bring up Thorman and James. However, don’t gut the farm system for another Division title folllowed by three and out. It hurts me as much as it does everyone else to watch this team struggle, but streaks do come to an end. I’d rather see improvement on this team, more seasoning for the supposedly-deep farm system, pick up some free agents in the off season (if Liberty will permit such), even if it meant the streak stops. As long as JS and Bobby perform miracles each year with a reduced busget, owenership will think all’s well. Perhaps a down year with the W-L and at the gate will open some ownership eyes. At least we can hope for that, can’t we???
By Vol
June 5, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
What are the odds of us landing Dontrelle in the next few weeks? Greater than 10%, or is this something that just isn’t going to happen? Does anyone know his long-term contract terms? You’ve got to make a move to get him if it’s reasonable at all.
Media guy - I already complain that there aren’t enough Braves games on TV because I don’t live in the southeast anymore. I remember writing a letter a couple of years ago to get Skip and Pete back. The drop in televised games is 100 times worse.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
Well put DOB.
A trade is needed. I hate the idea of giving up Salty, but if that’s what it takes, then so beit. Maybe dangling some one like Salty combined with Betemit, Reitsma, Langerhans, Orr and a player to be named later could procure both Cabrera for LF and Willis in the rotation. The line up would be drastically improved and maybe having great hitters surrounding Francoeur will open his eyes to the difference between being aggressive and being productive.
What a dream… it’s so much more pleasant than the nightmare that is Braves baseball right now.
Let’s Go BRAVES!!
By BP
June 5, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
DOB - right on with many points - the best being:
Why is it that Francoeur never does get a day off?
His reward for being a rally killing automatic out is more at-bats than anyone else in the league.
Let’s sit him now and again. I know Bobby is trying to show faith in him, but the kid is never going to learn if you don’t try to correct the behavior.
By Miranda
June 5, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
DOB… I agree with all of that! WONDERFUL read…I had been waiting all day for the new blog and it was worth the wait!
too bad Bobby won’t listen/read any of that… I think he needs to
and I agree with trading Salty and getting someone in return… Pena has done very well backing up while McCann has been hurt and with McCann being as great as he is right now I don’t think trading Salty is a bad idea at all
By Braves Fanatic
June 5, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this
Bettemit needs to be in there everyday at FIRST BASE!!! LaRoche is about as weak hitter as I’ve seen in a while at first0, even though he has picked up as of late. The everyday lineup should be as follows (when McCann comes back)
Gilly Renty Larry Andrew McCann Frenchy Bettemit Langer/Diaz (Diaz should play way more, even when a right hander is pitching).
I would also recommend giving up Salty for Dontrelle. I realize Salty can and probably will be a stud one day (I see him being similiar to Adam Dunn), but Dontrelle is still young AND affordable; and we all know how Time Warner and Liberty love that. Everyone hang on for the time being, remember we were all saying the same things last year before the Braves went on their annual summer run. Go Bravos!!!!!
By Swangirl
June 5, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this
Media Guy, Turner South is indeed becoming a joke and it’s really sad. To watch a Braves game on that channel, we turn down the volume and listen to the play-by-play from the REAL broadcasters.
So is Turner South going to start showing chess matches and high school track meets? It’s bad enough that they’re showing football in JUNE. What a joke. And lacrosse? HUH?
One question from a closet fan. Is Junkin’ officially dead?
By Dave nockahomer
June 5, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this
THE BEST BLOG EVER! THANKS, DOB!!!!!!!
Now, just find JS’s ear and get Willis up here pronto! They can have chipper if they want him…….we need Willis!
enjoy the TV games while we can. Who knows what next year holds! Tis a shame.
the Braves truly look and play horrid. A very demoralized team right now who need a skipper who can take names and kick butt while also building up some confidence! It can be done but not by Cox.
No matter……this is MY BRAVEs and I will love them to the end even while complaining like hell!
yep……
MY GAME
MY TEAM
AND MAYBE MY SOUTH!
By alfonzo
June 5, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this
I would definitely do the Salty for Dontrelle trade but “ONLY” if I could get Dontrelle to commit to a long term contract. I’m not giving up a “TOP” prospect for a one year rental. I think another possibility that could fix the Braves is a trade with Minnesota. Trade “Devine and two or three additional prospects that might include Escobar or Kelly Johnson” for Joe Nathan and Shannon Stewart. This would give us a young proven closer as well as a corner outfielder who is a proven leadoff hitter. I would rather have Carl Crawford but the price might be “TOO” High and with his current contract, TAMPA ain’t moving him. If we had Nathan and had 75% of the possible blown saves back, we would be in or very close to the division lead. Additionally, batting Stewart leadoff would allow us to drop Giles down to the seventh or eight spot in the lineup. Langerhans would be our fourth outfielder, a role more suited for him because of his versatility.
By Hal
June 5, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this
I have been a defender of manegment since JS got here BUT i think they made a huge mistAke in player evaluations coming into this year ! Of those 18 rookies of a year A year ago only two are players Mccan and Betemit and one of those is wasting away on our bench a luxury we sure as hell cant afford ! Couldnt agree more on your assement of frenchys “talent” to this point hes been nothing more then embarrasing and before everyone starts waxing poetic about his big home runs (2) may i point out that anyone getting that number of at bats is going to get lucky once in a blue moon . When he learns the nuances a player needs at this level he has all the ability in the world but im sorry swinging as hard as you can on every pitch and throwing the ball 15 feet over cut off mens head dosent cut it and the local hero makes good is getting old fast .With a team as flawed as this one as Nathan has pointed our repeatedly and correctly the little things need to get done .If they dont look for the Barves to be sellers in a month and a half
By Bear
June 5, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this
I know it’s looking bad…and the breaks are beating the boys…but hang on, true Brave fans! The magic will return and the Bravos will pull out the NL East! After that, though…no prediction…sigh…
By Rob
June 5, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this
Media Guy,
While I know the ratings are much lower for Braves games than other programing, what the suits at TW need to realize is having the Braves is what brings viewers to their station in the first place. I guarantee if they didn’t have Braves baseball, my cable provider could cut TBS tomorrow and I wouldn’t miss replays of “Blade 2” or “You’ve Got Mail” one bit.
By Michael
June 5, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this
Dave, I can’t say I disagree with one single word of that synopsis. Let’s hope Schuerholz is on the same page (but don’t hold your breath).
By Chop Chop
June 5, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this
hk,
You come up with some crazy spreadsheets.
Part of the problem when trying to determine Leo Mazzone’s value to the Braves is the turnover in pitchers from last year to this. The bullpen is completely different except for two guys (McBride and Reitsma). McBride didn’t have that many appearances last year as a rookie, so you can’t really judge him. Reitsma has been awful this year, but I recall him being kicked out of the closer’s role last year in favor of Kyle Farnsworth.
As far as the starters go, Smoltz’s ERA may be up some at this point (3.72 vs. 2.99 at the same time last year), but most of the rest of his stats are similar (even the 4-3 record compared to 3-4 last year…not a whole lot of run support and a crappy bullpen will do that). Hudson was 6-3 with a 2.96 ERA at this point last year. He’s 5-3 with a 3.99 ERA at the moment. Of course, he had a terrible April and has slowly been whittling down the bad numbers, so I’m not worried about him. Those two guys have not been affected much by Leo’s departure.
As for Horacio, Thomson and Sosa, Horacio never got along with Leo and hasn’t really pitched enough so far this season to figure out if he will be negatively impacted by him leaving or not. We do know that McDowell made him get rid of his cut fastball and he is keeping the ball down a lot more, which should help him produce better numbers. The sweaty-browed Thomson started out well, but he’s just plain awful at the moment. He pitched well in ‘04 for Leo, but wasn’t that special between injuries last year. He’s not that special again this year. Sosa has had the most notable drop-off without Leo. Of course, Sosa wasn’t very good with the Devil Rays before he came to Atlanta. Even if you account for the rugged AL East lineups(Yanks, Red Sox, Blue Jays) he had to face out of the pen, he was a below-average pitcher. Last year, he was generally solid. He wasn’t giving up the long ball and kept the Braves in games. Aside from his three good starts in a row this year, Sosa has been relegated to “staff filler” as opposed to the important piece he was last year. In my estimation, Leo helped him out some, but last year was basically a fluke.
Is McDowell to blame for the pen? It was believed that he might be able to handle the young guys better than Leo, but the pen has a lot of washed-up veterans in it. All I know is that McDowell is going to get some blame if the Braves don’t win the division this year. It may end up being undeserved, but he replaced “a legend”. That might be one reason Dayton Moore chose to go to KC. He didn’t want to replace “a legend” like Schuerholz.
By Robert
June 5, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
“However, don’t gut the farm system for another Division title folllowed by three and out.”
I agree entirely. Problem is, until Cox is gone, there’s little hope of anything BUT three-and-outs, no matter who is on the playing field for either team.
I am a Braves fan and am always amazed at how most of my fellow fans are able to console themselves by going on and on about how great our x number of division titles are, about how other fans envy us, and so and so on
It aint so people - Sure, they may tell US that. But I know better. They laugh at the Braves and their fans. All of the league. From Florida to San Francisco to New York.
Most of all in New York
Opposing managers and out of town sportswriters laugh too. Hey, vote Cox Manager of the Year. That way they wont fire him and they cant win when it counts. What a great scam!
By Atlanta Media Guy
June 5, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
Swangirl, Junkin is officially dead! Turner South is dying a slow death since being sold to Fox Sports South. I expect you’ll see a couple of shows until their contracts run dry. I expect Fox to change the name of Turner South eventually. I saw Quincy Carter score a couple of touchdowns today on Turner South. There are a lot of sad people in Turner Production and Turner Sports today.
By Robert
June 5, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this
By the way, the offer was Salty, Cox, and Reitsma for Dontrlle, which is why the Marlins are hesitating.
By Balthazar
June 5, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this
Pete mentioned during the game yesterday that the Braves tried having Betemit play some outfield in the winter leagues this past offseason and it didn’t go well. That was the first I’d heard of it. Any truth to it? I assume Pete isn’t just talking out of his backside.
Dave is right, the production from our corner outfielders is pathetic. Sadly, I see no other options. Diaz needs to get more time, yes. Jordan stinks. He isn’t the answer. Betemit seems like the most logical. Well, Chipper back to the outfield makes the most sense. He’s absolutely atrocious defensively at third. We know that’ll never happen, though.
By Rob
June 5, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this
Robert,
You are an idiot. And since you Bobby Cox only has about 2,120 more wins, 15 more postseason apperances, 5 more league championships, and 1 World Championship more than you, would you please shut up? Unless your name is Joe Torre, which I’m pretty sure it’s not (and even then you aren’t close on the wins or postseason apperances)
By Atlanta Media Guy
June 5, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this
Rob, The suits from TW are mostly from New York and California. You’re right when you say they bring viewers in but these days sports programming is getting closer and closer to pay per view because of the expense to broadcast them. Remember, even though the Braves are owned by TW they still have to pay a pretty stiff fee to MLB to broadcast the Braves on TBS, just like Tribune Co, does with the Cubs. Pretty soon it will not be economical and we’ll have to stick to the internet, radio, ESPN and Fox to stay in tune with the Braves.
By DHD
June 5, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this
The Angels have Colon coming off the DL. I read todaay where they are looking to trade one of their starters. Jeff Weaver is who they’ll probably try to trade unless they don’t want to seperate the brothers. I would take a shot on Weaver for the right deal. the next thing is trying to get one of these set up guys like Shields. So, maybe a package for Weaver and Shields would help.
That would allow us to do something like have Sosa as a setup with Shields the closer.
By Chop Chop
June 5, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this
Robert,
The same people in other cities who laugh at the Braves fans who brag about division titles are also the same people who wonder why the Braves don’t get more fans to show up to home games. Kind of a contradiction there, don’t ya think?
In short, the people who don’t show up because of frustration with the status quo outnumber those who brag on division titles. Both sets of fans are “real” Braves fans. Some just require more from their team to make them happy than others. That’s no different than any other baseball city that doesn’t have “history” or “tradition.”
By Hal
June 5, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this
Swangirl i thought that was “junkin” we watched this past weekend ohhh wait no it was just Junk lol
By Robert
June 5, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this
Rob,
I have just as many World Series titles as I should have (0 in 0 chances) and you say I am an idiot
Cox has about three less than he should have. What does that make him?
By Texter87
June 5, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this
DOB you are right 100 percent this time not 99 but 100 percent. I couldn’t agree any more. Salty for Willis would be a great trade, neither one is doing good right now but the thing about Willis is that he is got the stuff to become an HOF type of pitcher for the Braves. I believe he would love to become Smoltz’s teammate. Go Braves…!
By Atlanta Media Guy
June 5, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, I bet more people start going to the games when the Braves start to win and fewer games appear on free TV. Remember, when Ted bought the Braves he used it as content for WTCG, WTBS now TBS. As fewer games get on TV I’m sure fans will head back to the ballpark. “The Ted” is just one giant TV studio and as long as viewers watched, Ted didn’t care, since he made money with TV advertising well Ted is gone and as fewer people watch on free TV, maybe they’ll spend a buck.. wait 100 bucks to go to a game. MAYBE!
By Todd
June 5, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
Who is expendable to get what we need? Giles and Renteria are keepers, and Chipper is a 10-5 player so he’s not going anywhere. Andruw and McCann are indespensable, and I doubt anyone is totally giving up on Frenchy yet (though he is way too streaky to be every day right now). Betemit I’d hate to lose, as someone said above the super-sub thing can definitely work if done the right way. As far as pitchers go, I’d consider only Smoltz and Hudson untouchable, though I’d like to hang on to Davies and James if we can.
That leaves LaRoche, Langy/Diaz, Sosa, Thompson, Ramirez (though his last two games were very good), the entire friggin’ bullpen, and some very good minor league catchers and pitchers. How about looking into a trade to San Diego for Linebrink or Cassidy for bullpen setup help, to Pittsburgh for Gonzalez to close, and potentially Cincinnati for Ryan Freel to bat leadoff and play OF? These aren’t blockbuster deals or marquee players, but they’re better than what we’ve got.
By Not Huey Long
June 5, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this
Willis, Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Ramirez, Davies, Sosa, James…who do you cut loose next year?? Too much starting pitching…we need help in the ‘Pen, NOT at the beginning of the game.
Finally, move Chipper to first and get Betemit playing third, and for goodness sake, give Diaz some more AB’s!
By Robert
June 5, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this
I am probably in the minority, but I’d rather have one division title, one league championship, and one World Series, than umpteen, five, and one
As the playoffs go, if you dont win it all, then what was the point of getting there?
Now I conced that isnt the organization’s philosophy. Winning in the regular season and making the playoffs generates revenue, and to the guys in the front office, the balance sheet is and always will be what it’s all about
But as a FAN, it is incredibly hard to maintain a positive attitude when you KNOW yopu have no chance
I am first of all, a baseball fan. I love watching well played baseball. As a Braves fan, I would so love for it to be my hometown team that plays the best baseball.
Instead, what I have seen is teams that have gotten by with poor fundamentals and lacksadaisical play either because they had three HOF starters in the rotation and a big payroll on offense, or lately, because the rest of the division fell apart
When was the last time you saw a Braves player really get p** about failing? (like Cub Maddux beating the crap out of the water cooler recently)
In fifteen years, I have seen Bobby Cox kick a player in the pants ONCE. Way back when, he pulled Andru out of a game for doggin it.
The last guy we had who was even remotely emotional was Rocker, and that was channeled in all the wrong ways.
Kolb smashed a cooler or two, but what else?
As a whole, the Braves players are content with winning the division every year. Oh sure, around October 5th they say it hurts, they say it stings, and blah blah blah, but that’s an act for the fans
In pro sports, DESIRE has so much to do with how far a player or a team go.
And every year, the Braves get just as far as their desire takes them
Now, what, or rather, WHO, has been the one constant thruout this entire saga.
BOBBY FRICKIN COX
I dont CARE how many regular season games he wins, or how many division titles. His attitude is that the World Series is a bonus
And that attitude, which is tantamount to acceptance of failure, has no business in a big league dugout
You dont care about winning a World Series, go manage Kansas City or Pittsburgh, but get out of Atlanta
By Robert
June 5, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
I’m sure Cox and his Braves WOULD LIKE to win a World Series.
But you have to WANT to win it
There’s a world and half of difference between the two
And that difference is worth far more than 2130 games or 114 straight division titles
By Robert
June 5, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this
It’s not a coincidence that almost all the guys who have played for Bobby give him ringing endorsements
It’s exactly because of the above attitude. He WILL NOT bad mouth his players. He WILL NOT call them to account. Heck, it takes a major catastrophe before he’ll even considering doing something that might hurt a utiltyman’s feelings
Come to Atlanta. Play big league ball for a team that wins a lot of games. Make a heck of a lot of money for doing so. And have no expectations or accountability to perform when it really matters
What a cush job. What player WOULDNT love a manager that has this philosophy?
By Todd
June 5, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this
Bad day at the office there, Robert?
Virtually every team in MLB would give their firstborn to have Cox manage their team.
By KneeJerk
June 5, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this
Robert, your last post was pretty weak. There is NO other manager I’d rather have. How many postseason GAMES did Torre win before meeting up with Steinbrenner and his limitless funds. The real joke around the national media is that there are actually some Braves fans that would like to see Cox gone. Braves fans wanting to see Cox fired is the funniest thing I’ve read since Ron Roberts said he coached T-Ball and made his kids give up an at-bat to advance a runner. Nice one, Buttermaker
By bob
June 5, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this
Not Huey Long= Not Very Smart
Why would you rather have one of each than 15, 5, and 1? No matter how you put it, every year we can at least look at the 12 teams who didn’t make it and say “We’re better than you.” If we didn’t win 15 in a row, what would New York say about us? They have no room to talk because we can at least make the playoffs. They can’t. I just want to point out that you never know what you had until it’s gone. What would everyone say if we were the Devil Rays or the Pirates? Think! Just be glad that we can COMPETE year in and year out.
By Bw
June 5, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this
DOB, Heard Kelly Johnson was hurt again last week, anything to that?
By Robert
June 5, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this
Life isnt about riding contentedly along when get dealt a good starting hand. It’s about what you do with your opportunities, what isnt handed to you but is possible for you, absed on your choices, your desire, and your performance
If I were the Devil Rays or the Pirates, my philosophy would be that if I EVER got a chance, boy would I be sure to make the best of it
Wasting chances year in and year out that other teams would die to have just once
That’s the disgusting legacy of the Bobby Cox Braves
By Robert
June 5, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this
“we can at least make the playoffs”
OH that is just the kind of talks that boils my blood.
My friend, as long as we have that attitude “at least we make the playoffs”, we’ll have as much chance of winning the big one as those 12 NL teams that dont play in October
“At least we make the playoffs”
That’s a loser’s way of justifying his acceptance of losing
By Jimbo
June 5, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this
Great Stuff DOB I especially liked your take on Frenchy. Sit him for a while. Just like sound fundamental play is contagious, so is what Frenchy is doing. Only place I slightly disagree is on Giles. He may not be hurting us right now but he sure isn’t helping us either. His home run swing infuriates me every time he pops out.
By David O'Brien
June 5, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this
BW, Kelly Johnson had season-ending elbow surgery last week.
And by the way, I hear that John Foster might be having similar season-ending surgery as soon as Tuesday. So any thoughts of him helping with the situational lefty matter should be tabled.
As for Dontrelle, I’m in agreement that the Braves need to have some assurances they’d keep him long-term. However, he’s not eligible for free agency until after the 2008 season, so they’d have plenty of time to work that stuff out. He was first-time arbitration guy this winter, and he’ll get another good raise next winter if they go to arbitration.
But don’t you think he’d want to sign a multi-year deal here and buy out the last couple years of arbitration and first year or two of free agency? I’m betting he would. Again, there’s way of finding out his thoughts on such matters before making the deal.
Anyway, that’s just a suggestion I threw out there. I know they’re interested in Willis, but so are at least 10 other teams. The Braves have a lot more of the prospects the Marlins want in trades, though, than almost all of those teams, if not all of them.
By Voice of Reason
June 5, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this
You know, it’s a sign of just how spoiled we are that we are this jacked over the Braves possibly NOT taking the division for a 15th straight time. The cold truth is, the Braves are in a rebuilding phase. Most teams rebuilding aren’t also fighting for a playoff spot. Don’t get me wrong… I’m as frustrated with the bullpen, the strikeouts, the inconsistency as the next guy. But this isn’t exactly the ‘27 Yankees trottin’ out there. They are a pretty mediocre bunch. While the youngsters such as Franc and (gulp) even LaRoche may look sick right now, the experience they are gaining will shorten the learning curve for the future. That’s why I get so bent over the failings of guys like Rem and Reits. Stockman and Startup are just as capable of letting us down, they’d at least be gaining some experience.
By utahjoe
June 5, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this
I like the Dontrelle trade, but this is only fantasy. Florida is not going to trade him inside the division and see him return 3-4 times a season-unless they move. A better trade would be Giles, Tony Pena, and either Anthony Lerew or Horacio Rameriz to Minnesota for Luis Castillo and Joe Nathan. Minnesota is falling far out of the race and need a good hands young shortstop and everyone can always use an extra arm. Than trade LaRoach to the Angels for Scott Shields. Play Chipper at 1st (and hope his power comes back) and put Betemit at 3rd until Scott Campbell is ready. New lineup:1.castillo 2 mc cann 3 chipper 4 andruw 5 renteria 6 francouer 7 langerhans 8 betemit
By Pete
June 5, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this
By Atlanta Media Guy
“I’m glad I sold my stock in Time Warner back when it was at 54, seeing where this company is headed today I don’t think we’ll ever see the stock back at the levels when Ted ran the show.”
I got news for you: Ted NEVER “ran the show” at Time Warner. He was on the board, and was pretty much a figure head. What makes you think he ran the show? Unfortunately for Braves fans, he certainly did run the Braves, until the late 80’s or so. During Turner’s reign, it was ugly.
By Head Coach
June 5, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this
DOB , maybe a new leadoff hitter who can run , a starter like Willis and a closer would help this team , but its just not going to happen. JS is hog tied by an 80 million cap on team salary. He would have to unload a significant contract or two before he would have the money and minor league players he needs to horse trade with. Cox is set with Giles and nothing will change with the lack of speed and baserunning ability at the top of the order. O yea , THERE ARE NO CLOSERS AVAILABLE. Play or trade Betemit , he is too valuable to be sitting on the bench. BOBBY BALL is killing this team , want proof ? how many times has this team hit and run so far ? thats a big fat ZERO , NADA , NONE. Got a single , stole second , bunted the runner too third and got a sac fly to drive in the run , ZERO ,NONE , NADA. Small ball is an ALIEN concept to Bobby Cox and you know it , I know it and every other major league manager knows it too. The Cox Reitsma soap opera is a joke , it has underminded the confidence and cohesiveness of this team. You have probably figured out how totally PI$$ED I am at Cox. The problems and solutions start and end with Bobby Cox , he needs to pull his freaking head out of his freaking butt and start managing like he means it.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this
Wasting chances year in and year out that other teams would die to have just once
And we have it all the time. Go Braves!!
Out depth in the starting rotation is what makes me think we can pull off a good trade. I think we could do it without giving up Davies or James. Salty might be needed and maybe someothers, but JS can do it. He traded one minor leaguer for Renteria and cash.
1 minor leaguer! Unbelievable.
The Sox turned around and had to include even more to get Coco Crisp.
I’d rather not be in this position, but as long as JS and Cox are behind the wheel I know there’s always hope.
By student
June 5, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this
Oh go away Robert. What you guys tend to miss is that the playoffs are something of a crapshoot, particularly the first round series. The last few years I agree the problem has been a lack of dominant pitching, but the truth is that its just hard to win 3 series and you need some luck to do it. The idea that a team that has won 15 straight division titles isn’t interested in winning is…well absurd would be a kind way to put it. I mean we’ve lost 3 straight division series in 5 games, 5 games and 4 games and 18 innings. Thats maddening of course but I don’t think it speaks to a team that has some secret plan to make the playoffs and not get any further. Yeah, a bigger budget would help but as the Angels and Marlins proved you can win without spending a huge amount. But honestly the most important thing in the playoffs is just being hot at the right time. And I don’t agree that somehow 15 straight pennants doesn’t count for anything. The regular season is the ultimate test for a baseball team. I think your priorities are somewhat off, I would much rather be us than the Marlins who have 2 world series titles but a whole bunch of seasons in the middle and afterwards where their fans had to watch a terrible team with no chance. But thats all, I should stop being bated by idiots.
By Chad
June 5, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this
Dontrelle Willis, the guy who should have won the Cy Young last year, a proven major league ace not yet making proven major league money, for a minor league catcher? I don’t see that happening.
That catcher may turn out to be the best ever, but I can guarantee you that the Marlins are not going to trade a proven major league ace who is 24, for unproven talent.
Lots of guys have upside and clean up in the minors, but you can’t trade an all-star in the majors for a guy who has never played there for more than a cup of tea, unless there’s a lot of marajuana or vodka involved on the Marlins end.
It will take 3, 4 Salty-type prospects to land Dontrelle Willis. The only teams with a chance to land that guy are going to be the teams with the most minor league talent, because it will take a lot more than one guy whose never proven himself in the big leagues to get one of the best pitchers in baseball (who is 24!). The Braves have it, but will Schurholz give up his top 3, 4 guys? I say no, but somebody will do it.
By Pete
June 5, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this
By student:
“What you guys tend to miss is that the playoffs are something of a crapshoot, particularly the first round series.”
Judging by that comment, you must be related to Cox. If its always a crapshoot, why is it the Braves always crap out, and other teams dont? Shouldnt it even out?
By Atlanta Media Guy
June 5, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this
Pete, You think Ted never ran the show? I hate to tell you, I worked in that building for 20 years and Ted did run the show until 1998 when Gerry Levin and Steve Case forced Ted out in what was the worst deal in media history, the company is still reeling from that merger with AOL that never worked. Ted ran CNN and TBS and I hate to tell you it was Terry McGuirk, Stan Kasten and Ted Turner who hired John Schueholz and the rest is history. I guess you forget the days of hanoi Jane sitting in Ted’s box doing the chop etc… Trust me, I worked in a management position at Turner Broadcasting back when it was a cash cow, in the 80’s and 90’s! Now they are spending money on CNN talent, studios and look where CNN’s ratings are.. in the toilet. Rupert took Ted’s model and 10 years later FOX News has triple the daily audience than CNN. When Ted ran the show it was a great place to work, TW has run Turner Broadcasting into the ground and I hope someone can bring it back but I think now it’s too far gone. Pete check your facts, I was there and it was a blast to work for Ted. You never knew what he’d dream of next! Time Warner could use an out of the box thinker like Ted again.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this
Meanwhile, the Braves have another 2005 draft pick who might be on the fast track to Atlanta’s bullpen.
The way the pen has looked so far, I’m not sure if I could take that as a compliment.
By Ron Roberts
June 5, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this
Not that Saltamacchia’s LIGHTING IT UP IN AA BALL THIS YEAR, ANYHOW…, but a question that runs through my mind is…
…why should we make another move that makes this team playoff “capable” if it doesn’t make this team *”World Series contenders?”
A lot of folks have said this already, but face it, folks… the Braves are re-building. The fact that we won the NL East last year while re-building speaks volumes for Schuerholz and Cox and Mazzone and their abilities, but this year, the sophomore slumps have deflated our expectations from so many of last season’s rookie surprises.
Grabbing Dontrelle would be nice (let’s remember, he was a popular Cy Young candidate going into last season), but does adding him make us a potential World Series team? Heck no. All it does is add another questionable “potential” dominant rotation piece, and we’ve got Horacio, So-So-Sa, Davies, Chuck James already waiting to be the “good” #3 guy behind Smoltz and Hudson.
Bullpen help and a leadoff guy, to me, could come cheaper or at the same cost, and would do much more for us and make us a better playoff team. Dontrelle can only affect eveyr fifth game.
By hk
June 5, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this
… thank you Chop Chop :))
… I imagine we’ll see Baltimore’s pitching numbers get better next year as they get to know Leo better … McDowell has got to be still feeling his way at this point, it’s a whole new experience for him … my read is that he’s definitely not a negative up ‘til now, and will get better …
… Smoltz and Huddy are fine, and I feel like Sosa is steadily settling in … Horacio has been a delightful surprise … I don’t fault him much for that play at first the other night, he’s still getting his sea legs under him, think nervousness shows up on a play like that … he is an emotional guy, though, his performance will likely vary quite a bit from game to game … I was worried about Thomson from the beginning, think his body is beginning to break down, afraid maybe Chipper’s is too … that kind of thing can effect you from the neck up (voice of experience) … all in all, think our starting pitching will be OK …
… relief pitching is the problem … mostly new guys, and when your closer doesn’t work out, it has a snowball effect on everybody else … my vote at this point would be that big mooose Paronto for closer … Ray has looked good, but not sure he has the emotional toughness required for closing (same problem as Reitsma) … jury is still out on the big moose as to toughness, but I just don’t see us getting any help from outside, think we’re going to have to make do with what we’ve got …
… hitters have been streaky, but I feel like if the relief situation can get half way resolved, the overall pitching will stablize … if that happens, I think the hitters will perform more evenly … Giles has been doing much better lately, the only guy that concerns me among the hitters really is Frenchy … think maybe McCann’s return will help him … Frenchy rides on his emotions big time, is influenced by the situation around him … but if the Braves turn it around, and I think they will, Frenchy will be OK …
… there is no manager in baseball I would rather have, in the present situation, than Bobby Cox …
… you may have to eat your hat yet !!
By Pete
June 5, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this
By Atlanta Media Guy Pete, You think Ted never ran the show? I hate to tell you, I worked in that building for 20 years and Ted did run the show until 1998 when Gerry Levin and Steve Case forced Ted out in what was the worst deal in media history, the company is still reeling from that merger with AOL that never worked.
I agree 100%. Maybe I misunderstood you, because what I said is Ted never ran TIME WARNER, which is different than running CNN/TBS. If you read your original post again, it seems as if youre saying Ted ran all of Time Warner.
By b driks
June 5, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this
I agree with all of the comments except Giles at leadoff. Giles drop can be traced to no Furcal on base forcing fastballs against a possible steal. Reitsma - stand up guy, but not the closer; is it possible he could be converted to a starter? Let’s get Willis, but not for Salty. Stick Chipper at first, and start Betemit at 3rd. Package LaRoche and a few prospects for relief pitching or Juan Pierre.
By JeffsMom
June 5, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this
If Jeff Francoeur was just about half as good as he thinks he is, then he would be HOF material!
By Atlanta Media Guy
June 5, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this
Pete, Thanks! Maybe I did mislead with my rant, Ted ran the show at Turner even after he merged with TW. Maybe Ted should have been running the whole show, I’m sure he wishes he was now. Gerry Levin made some terrible business decisions that led to where TW is today.. 40% of Turner Sports employees were laid off today that included their lead director for the Braves. The average viewer will never notice but remember one thing fans will notice, Pete’s, Skip’s, Don’s and Joe’s contract all end at the end of the season and I can guarantee you the broadcast booth will never be the same after this season. I hope I’m wrong, but the economics do not add up with only 45 games slated for TBS, next year. Don’t be surprised if nothing happens with the roster, TW has given JS an edict about spending. Who knows maybe someone with money will buy the Braves and they can return to the days of a 100 million dollar payroll, but I think that’s doubtful too.
By Chambers
June 5, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this
Capatilism, folks It happens. Turner South, much like its newly named sister station, got lazy with its production and I, for one, am glad to see it go. Junkin’ makes throw up a little. Any network can spend less on Blade 2 and get higher ratings than baseball. Thats life. You can’t ask any corporation, no matter how much emotion you have tied up in their product, to make less money. Just like you cant ask AOL or Liberty Media to spend more on the Braves. Ted spent because he didn’t care about the bottom line. Same for Arthur Blank. AOL doesn’t care if Reitsma can’t close games. Reitsma has nothing to do with QVC’s advertising schedule. Sucks, but true. If the games have value, someone will pick them up. If they don’t, oh well. At least you have radio…for now.
By By Cory H
June 5, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this
I agree with everything but i would like to add an idea how about we trade a high prospect or dare i say it Chipper Jones for Ichiro and a quality closer. We need that boost at the top of our line up and lets face it chipper isnt the impact he used to be case in point look how we did when he was injured last year. And last i checked ichiro was lifting the WBC Championship imagine Ichiro, Giles, Francouer, Jones, Edgar, and Maccan We need a guy who can get 200 hits for a change not occasional power. Remeber the Red Sox won it all when the traded the face of the franchise nomar its time while we can still get full value for him and have money to sign Andrew the best outfeilder in the game.
By Atlanta Media Guy
June 5, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this
Chambers, You;re right about corporate decisions, the bottom line is where it’s at. But you said, “Turner South, much like its newly named sister station, got lazy with its production.” Before Turner South was bought by Fox Sports South, The same production team produced the Braves on TBS and Turner South, now that WILL NOT be the case. Personally, I think the former Turner South executives spent too much money trying to make the network a southern network, hell they spent 11 million on marketing a year! 11 million dollars marketing a regional network? That formula is doomed for failure. But like you said, TW needs to sell assets so they can relieve their debt load and that’s what happens in business. However, we can certainly be sad for the fine folks at Turner Sports, since their production team was hands down the best in the league when it came to local team broadcasts, we’ve had it pretty good the last 30 years from a viewers point of view.
By bob
June 5, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this
Ichiro will never come here. The only reason he is in Seatle is because they at least have a Japanese culture. But that kind of life is non-existant here. He’ll stay on the west coast
By Chad
June 5, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this
Ichiro is the best defensive outfielder in baseball, and one of the best leadoff guys, who makes several million less than Chipper, a power hitting third baseman (there’s plenty of those around) who doesn’t stay healthy anymore. Oh and don’t forget how many tickets Ichiro sells in Seattle. That trade’ll never happen. Never. I’d like it to, but it won’t. They won’t trade the face of their franchise who is still playing as well as ever for a broken down (and overrated) third baseman.
By Scott
June 5, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, if you don’t think Atlanta is a city that has history or tradition, then what constititutes it? The Braves are one of the oldest franchises in sports. They’ve been in the playoffs 14 straight seasons. They’ve drawn over 2 million fans 15 straight years and they are about to do it for a 16th straight. They’ve draw over 3 million fans 6 times. Even the Yankees used to get outdrawn by the Expos in the 80s. Do you not remember that?
By Pete
June 5, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this
Heres what I think (other than the obvious bullpen debacle), for whatever its worth (not much Im sure): 1) either Langerhans or Laroche (or both) should be out of the lineup, 2) Giles is not a leadoff hitter, 3) Betemit must be in the lineup somewhere. Giles should probably be batting 2nd, just as last year, and either Betemit or even Renteria leading off. I believe C. Jones will be at 1st or left field before too much longer. Who knows? No way he will be traded.
By David
June 5, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Any “infor” on what was said in players only meeting today???
By Chambers
June 5, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this
Atlanta Media Guy Your right about the true sad thing: those folks who lost their jobs. This is a tough business and those of us willing to put up with crap pay and budgets (I’ve always liked how a calculated number from a corporate office not being met means, magically, that money is not being made. You can set a budget at a Ka-Trillion dollars, make a Ba-Zillion, spend a million, and get told there’s no room for upgrades and more personel.) You said all but Chip are up for contract renewal at years end, but I was always led to beleive that Pete was an employee of the Atlanta Braves, not the Braves Radio Net or any of the networks and that it was a forgone conclussion that Chip and Pete would carry the banner for the Braves Radio and Skip and Joe would stick TBS out until the Braves leave.
By Keith Allsep
June 5, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this
I totally agree on acquiring Willis and getting Betemit in the lineup, although we differ on how to get him in there. I think the braves should move Chipper Jones to first base and play Betemit full-time at 3rd. Chipper isn’t getting any younger and he will only improve his chances of playing a full season if he’s at first because there is less chance of injury there. Betemit can take over at third and get his .300 avg in the lineup on a daily basis.
The Braves could then trade LaRouche and a couple of prospects for a closer.
By Submariner
June 5, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this
I’ve been saying in here on several different occasions that Willis is a must and that Giles wasn’t as big a problem as most have made him out to be, and that Reitsma and Remlinger stink, and that Betemit needed to be in the line-up more often, and…….blah, blah, blah.
You people need to forget about Chipper Jones being traded. He and Smoltz are probably the only guys in the league that have a player/organization loyalty relationship. They will play as long as they want in a Braves uniform and wherever they want on the field or in the rotation.
Our best-case scenario is that they get Willis and maybe a stud in the bullpen. If they can get the pitching staff squared away, then the offense will work itself out. It’s all relative and you can’t put pressure on the offense EVERYDAY to come from behind.
Now, that said, I think that you can’t get much better pitching from Huddy and Smoltzy. Which, on those days that they go, the hitters get to feeling like they can relax and scratch out a run or two and that the John or Tim will throw a 2 hit CG shutout.
They need consistent offensive production and the only way to get that is to get consistent hitters in the line-up everyday. I.E. Betemit. Francoeur needs to sit or get sent down. He’s pathetic! He reminds me of that kid on an AAU team who really isn’t that good, but his parents keep pumping money into the program, so the coach feels pressure to play him. The automatic out when he comes up to bat and you hide your eyes when the ball gets hit his way.
I’ve always said that you don’t need to have a superstar at every position in order to win. What you do need is 9 guys out there who know what their role is and who can execute. Right now, they aren’t a TEAM and they don’t execute. Everybody is looking at the other guy to do it all and you can’t win like that.
We can all wish all we want for organization to open up the checkbook like the Yankees and BoSox and buy up the talent, but we’re going to have to realize that they are going to have to go with what they have within the organization. Willis is a viable option out there due to the fact that he’s locked up for a few years and that the Braves have what everyone wants……..young talent. If they can get him, it would do two things, add a good lefty to offset Smoltz and Hudson and while setting up great rotation for the postseason and make Sosa or Tompson expendable for bullpen help.
Maybe Sosa could throw BP before the games.
By Bob, journalist
June 5, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this
BW, Kelly had Tommy John Surgery and is out for the year.
Chop Chop, I usually agree with you but I’m not sure about this one … but I didn’t understand your 05:23 post to Robert.
Of course, I can’t understand Robert either … his words are simple and clear enough … but anyone who thinks that those who play the game are not trying to win … that’s like thinking that Huckleberry Finn and Tom Jones are light reading.
It’s a reall shame that Chipper Jones never played on a losing team … then maybe he could provide better leadership. We can’t expect Bobby Cox to change but I think somebody needs to “explain things” in no uncertain terms to the “I gotta be me players” on the team!
David O’ said it real good today!
I wonder just how much time TP spends with the hitters having them hit line drives to specific points (i.e 150 - 175 feet; 10 feet fair inside the rightfield foul line) in the park. It’s amazing for consistent a skilled hitter can get at doing that.
Along the same lines, I’d like to see players like Frenchy given very specific tasks each and every time they come to the plate … at least until they are developing and executing such plans on their own. When the successful completion of a specific task is the focus, self decipline becomes a natural byproduct rather than a self defeating objective.
It also offers the advantage of having the player focus on what you want him to do … and performance is relatively easy to evaluate and correct.
By nathan
June 5, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this
WTF is chipper doing? Nice baserunning!
By Robert
June 5, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this
It’s not that they have a “secret plan” to go no further than the first round of the playoffs.
It’s that deep down they dont CARE if they dont go past the first round of the playoffs.
And to anyone who would give their first born to have Cox as their team’s manager - keep your kid, just gimme a beer and a bag of peanuts and you can have him
By Robert
June 5, 2006 08:17 PM | Link to this
I loved this one
“By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this
Wasting chances year in and year out that other teams would die to have just once And we have it all the time. Go Braves”
Taking pride in wasted opportunity.
How utterly nauseating
And the Braves are proof that the playoffs are NOT just a crapshoot.
In a crapshoot, you’d expect to go one for eight in the long term. Cox’s record is barely half that good
Half as good as random chance - what a glowing resume item
I can understand why a player would like to play for Cox. I can understand why a front office might want to have a Cox as manager. But a FAN? Any fan who wants Cox as his team’s manager might as well wear a shirt that says “I like losing”
By Robert
June 5, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this
“Of course, I can’t understand Robert either … his words are simple and clear enough … but anyone who thinks that those who play the game are not trying to win … that’s like thinking that Huckleberry Finn and Tom Jones are light reading.”
I’m not saying they arent trying to win. I am saying it doesnt bother them enough when they dont
By MurphyRules
June 5, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this
So, Eric Gregg dies on a night when Livan Hernandez is pitching against the Braves.
Not trying to make light of his death. Just found it a little … spooky?
By JJMB
June 5, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this
Having read Atlanta Media Guy’s “inside” information, I say if Skip and Sutton get axed, GOOD. I think Ted Turner is a goofball, so I could care less about his so-called downturn. CNN and TBS typically run a bunch of pandering liberal crap, so I don’t give a damn about that, either.
I’m sure FOX has their skeletons, but for now, Long live FOX!
I’m enjoying Torborg’s insights tonight.
By David O'Brien
June 5, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this
Don’t believe what you might hear on airwaves about a players-only meeting. It was totally insignificant and merely involved a discussion of their need to elect a player rep because they’re the only team that doesn’t have one. That’s it. Nothing more, regardless of what some misinformed folks might say.
Ron Roberts, I beg to differ on what makes a World Series contender. While the Braves wouldn’t be one of the 2-3 favorites in the NL to make it, look back in recent years at some of the teams that advanced to the series and tell me at midseason they were World Series contenders. If you’ve got 2-3 healthy aces, the rest of it isn’t nearly as important. I’m talking 2-3 horses who can give you 7-8 innings a start in the biggest games.
Remember, until McCann went down, Braves ranked among NL offensively leaders in most every category, and are still seventh in majors in runs, if I’m not mistaken. The lineup is capable. Not great, but capable.
By the way, Smoltz’s postseason numbers as starter are even better than I originally wrote in the blog above. He’s 13-4 in 27 postseason starts, not 34. Just for the sake of accuracy.
Livan’s numbers against Braves are just inexplable. 0-10 with a 5.95 ERA in his last 15 reg-season starts before tonight, and 3-0 with a 2.57 ERA in three lifetime postseason starts against them.
By David O'Brien
June 5, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this
Oh, and I forgot who said Marlins wouldn’t do Salty for Dontrelle (don’t have time to scroll back and find it), but I never proposed that as straight-up one-for-one. I’m just saying I’d include Salty if they asked for him. They don’t need a shortstop (have Hanley Ramirez), but if they’d be interested in Yunel Escobar, I’d listen to that, too, since Braves have Elvis Andrus behind him, should be ready in couple years.
Anyway, if two prospects would get it done, I’d do it. I don’t think it’d take 3-4 top prospects, as you suggested. I wouldn’t do that, obviously.
By alan
June 5, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this
Nats just got 4 runs in a chilling inning by the Braves. Forget hitting, pitching, bullpen, possible trades. This is a team of professionals who are so out of whack that they’re not playing good fundamental baseball. Ruined five good innings from Hudson. They miss cutoff men, make poor throws, don’t hold on to the ball when they should, and except for Renteria, the infield won’t get bodies in front of balls. One of the most important part of the Braves’ dominant pitching over the years has been great defense. If you are going to rely on “pitchers” rather than power starters, you need a team that can field ground balls and make defensive plays. It almost looks like they need to bring the entire AAA team up and give the big boys a week to work on fundamental baseball. Pratt is terrible - McCann’s injury has really had bigger implications than at first it seemed…
By kikoman
June 5, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this
salty, escobar, kelly johnson and chris reitsma (and 80% of his remaining salary) for willis.
By brian
June 5, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this
DOB - I think you have fallen off your rocker by suggesting the Braves unload Salty now. For I think a first time, I disagree with you. I would love to have Willis but not at the cost of Salty plus Davies or James. If Davies or James then Thormon or another prospect just a level below Salty.
I agree with Ron in the fact that the Braves biggest needs are LF/leadoff hitter and bullpen help. To throw in my two cents as a fantasy GM the Braves should go after Detroit’s Granderson or Rodney or Zumaya. Although I want Betemit in our starting line up, Boston is right about desperate enough for SS help they may deal one of their top pitching prospects for Betemit including Hansen or Lester. The Braves also need to deal Thomson when James is ready to start. A lot of teams will want veteran pitching.
Good comments on the loyalty as well. Chipper will not play 1B unless he asks to play 1B. The Braves are NOT going to even ask Chipper to play 1B.
By David O'Brien
June 5, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this
For those scoring at home, that’s the second time this season the Nationals have scored five runs in an inning after an Adam LaRoche error on a Nick Johnson grounder….
And I had Livan’s record off by a loss _ it’s 0-11 in his last 15 vs. Braves in reg season, a streak that may be coming to an end….
By gayle
June 5, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this
Smoltz doesn’t “want” to move back to the bullpen? TOO BAD! This team has suffered because Smoltz is the most selfish athlete I have ever seen in pro sports. He is in the starting rotation solely to feed his oversized ego. I’m guessing here, but I imagine that Braves management would have been very happy to pay him his $10 million a year to stay in the bullpen and be the effective closer that this team has lacked since he moved back to the starting rotation. If moving to the bullpen will help his team win, why is this even being discussed? He should be out there in the pen and should do his job and shut up. Who runs this team anyway?
By elbravox
June 5, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this
Playoffs, playoff!I would not trade any talent to make the playoff. What if Liberty Media slashes payroll and the Braves can not resign whomever they traded for? No, I’m ready to play whoever we have, get them on the job experience and be ready for ‘07. The Braves should buy Fred’s “I’m having a good hat day” instructional video and learn how to hit the cut-off man. Playoffs, please who you kidding?
By David O'Brien
June 5, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this
Actually, only four runs scored in the inning after LaRoche’s May 14 error, though all were unearned.
Two of tonight’s five sixth-inning runs for Nats were unearned, and Giles’ E had as much to do with it as LaRoche’s. Sloppy, sloppy inning.
Gayle, your statement that Smoltz is the single-most selfish athlete in sports is the single-dumbest statement made today in North America, near as I can tell. I’ll leave it at that. We’ll check with South America later.
By nathan
June 5, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this
I posted this on another blog yesterday or the day before. But it still applies.
It’s a quote from This is Spinal Tap.
It’ would be the answer if somebody asked me sum up the braves with two words:
SH*T SANDWICH
Also, I stated this a couple of days ago and I will reiterate it one more time.
Not only will this team not win the division, not only will they not win the wild card. This team probably will finsish 4th in this division, 3rd at the absolute best.
Just my opinion.
The spurts of good play (by individuals and the team) are nothing more than smoke screen……..Chocolate Coverd Sh*t, if you will.
By MBATL
June 5, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this
Sure glad Frenchy didn’t have the task of taking the first pitch in the 6th!
For the “1 for 14” crowd, I think Bobby’s record in postseason series is about 12-14 (feel free to check my numbers, but I know that’s in the ballpark). You’ve got to string together 3 series wins in a row to win the WS. Try flipping a coin and trying to hit 3 heads in a row… it happens, but not as often as you’d like.
Beating another playoff team is about a 50-50 proposition; to do it 3 times in a row is indeed a crapshoot.
By berigan
June 5, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this
Gayle, you have clearly never heard of Terrell Owens, or the rapist from the L. A. Lakers. And what part of Smoltz being 39 and having had several elbow surgeries don’t you understand? His arm CANNOT withstand the grind of throwing as hard as he can, 4-5 days a week anymore. Hell, he is wanting to start on 3 days rest to help the team…Cox better not be dumb enough to take him up on it.
By Antonio McNugget
June 5, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this
DOB, Just wondering did you hear something about talks with the phish about Dontrell or is that just “what if” speculation on your part?
By eric the elder
June 5, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this
I know I’m in the minority, but I vote no on a deal for Dontrelle. The cost in youngsters would be way too high.
Corporate ownership will turn the Braves into a second tier team, if it hasn’t already. Cincinati, Baltimore, that sort of thing. We will not be able to afford free agents, and thinking we can trade 3-tool players for 5-tool players is a pipe dream. The Braves only hope is the farm system, and trading them away for a guy who would be out there once every five days doesn’t make sense to me.
I say bring the kids on - - now. Thorman, relievers - - yes, even Salty. Can he be worse than Pratt? If this is a rebuild year, and every indication is that it is, then let’s get started. At least it might give the fans something to interest them.
By Pete
June 5, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this
By MBATL Beating another playoff team is about a 50-50 proposition; to do it 3 times in a row is indeed a crapshoot. Dave, your ranking of Gayle’s comment as the “single-dumbest statement made today in North America…..” lasted all of 8 minutes. The above comment easily trumps hers.
By Antonio McNugget
June 5, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this
Just got off the phone with South America and they said and i quote “Ggayle your a *bag”
By kikoman
June 5, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this
trade hudson if he takes hampton with him.
By RC
June 5, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this
One question….does Diaz play first? Package Laroche, Jordan, and Salty to get Willis….
By elbravox
June 5, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this
CUT OFF MAN, is a dirty word in ATL. If either Smoltz or Hudson goes down for any period of time (highly possible), this team will win two series a month-playoffs? who you kidding?
By MBATL
June 5, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this
Uh, “Pete”, if the Braves are playing another playoff caliber team in the NLDS, do we have much more than a 50% of winning? And do we have any more than that in the LCS? Or the WS?
Seems to me it’s 3 series with a roughly 50% chance of winning each one (depending on the year, the talent in a given year - some years we’ve been pretty talented, some lucky to be there at all). And it’s 3 series.
I’m sure you’re right, but please elaborate.
By ConyersDawg
June 5, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this
Relax people we have been spoiled for fourteen years. Do you think we will never lose the east? Anyway, we are going to get healthy soon and we will be fine.
By Eric C.
June 5, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this
The Braves are imploding before our eyes…the worst 4 game series is turning into the worst 5 game stretch. Let’s not forget those players signed for the 1991 season…Bream, Belliard and Pendleton… steady defensive players that helped bring stability to a young pitching staff. It is only fitting that the run will end with a team that is so “whacked out” and so unstable that it seems NO player can be depended on to anything productive.
By Woogidy
June 5, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this
Boy, Yates throws hard, but it’s so straight. If he could throw that out pitch for strikes, he could be a “Diamond in the Rough”. Hey DOB Where’d Blaine Boyer go? Oh by the way. Lance Cormier started for Richmnnd tonight: 5 innings, 5 hits one earned and a win, What’s the plan with him? One more thing, Thorman went deep again tonight. Maybe JS doesn’t have his phone # to call him up.
By Woogidy
June 5, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this
Conyersdog, The infield is healthy, but the infield defense is not. Speaking of healthy, look at Chad Paronto.
By Pete
June 5, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this
To me, when you say winning some series or championship in sports is a “crapshoot,” that suggests its all about luck. Cox calls the 1st round of playoffs a “crapshoot,” usually right after losing another first round. Thats his line for all the post season failures of the last 4-5 years.
By bw
June 5, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this
Cormier was a stud in college at Alabama. 8 innings cash money every Friday night.
By Tony Almeida
June 5, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this
DOB, weren’t you the one defending Francouer earlier this season? Change of heart?
Maybe if Bobby didn’t let his veterans run around all Spring playing golf, maybe they could field an easy grounder every once in a while….fundamentals…this team aint got em.
Jack Bauer should have his way with this bunch of losers.
By elbravox
June 5, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this
If M.O. stays true, we will give up 3 in the ninth/ Playoffs- who are you pandering to?
By Antonio McNugget
June 5, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this
RC if you package LaCrotch and Jordan with anyone you would have to have the other GM at gunpoint.
By Antonio McNugget
June 5, 2006 10:05 PM | Link to this
Better watch out Tony Almeida. South America mentioned you too.
By MBATL
June 5, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this
Pete, thanks. First, I think the short league Div. series is a joke; you build a team to win over the long haul, and baseball/t.v. decide there’s not time to play 7 games in the first series; a huge advantage for the less successful (wildcard) team, whose rotation might go 2-deep but not 3 or 4.
Beyond that, I’m just saying it’s not right to trash Bobby and the Braves for failing to win 3 series in a row more often. We were just as good as some of the teams that won, not as good as others.
The goal is to put yourself in position to play for it as often as possible.
I’m as frustrated as anyone at our failure to win it all more often, but mainly want to see us stay in the battle.
Except for the Yankees ([insert comment about $200 mil payroll here]), no one has figured out how to win the whole thing “consistently.” Only repeat champs are the Marlins, with completely different mgmt and players…LUCKY!
By old timer
June 5, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this
DOB, did you change your mind on Willis? I’d like to get him, thought you were against that because of his numbers this year.
By brian
June 5, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this
there is no excuse for Thormon to not be in the majors and given a shot. Both at 1B and at LF. Put Thormon at LF and Betemit at 1B and see what happens.
The Braves couldn’t strike out any more than they already do. Let Betemit leadoff and put Giles in the 5-7 spot
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this
Taking pride in wasted opportunity. How utterly nauseating
I have just as many World Series titles as I should have (0 in 0 chances)
Taking pride in not even trying…How utterly nauseating
By Robert
June 5, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this
Giles has to sit down. He is struggling at the plate along with making costly errors in the field. The game is going 100 miles an hour in his head. He should have conceded the run at 3rd base and make the thow to first. His thowing error compounded the situation while allowing 2 runners to score. I would have traded an out for the outcome, maybe we would not be talking about an loss.
By Head Coach
June 5, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this
Another one run loss and the beat goes on. Anybody got a white flag ? The braves surrender !
By elbravox
June 5, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this
This is funny. We will have higher draft picks in ‘07 than championships in 14 years. Sweet and cruel. Love the Braves but the holes are eveywhere. Even Swiss chesee is jealous!
By nathan
June 5, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this
Hmmmmmmmmmmm waddya know?
Another 1 run loss! Real surprise.
It’s as though I loaded up the Flux Capacitor, and punched in 1989 in the Delorian. Cuz this team looks an awful lot like those late 80’s teams, Lot’s of young talent, and no consistancy. Anybody remember Glavine taking no-hitters into the 7th, 8th and 9th innings only to give up 3 or 4 runs in the latter parts of the game?
Skip just said on radio, that the Braves were done in by one bad inning tonight. No, the Braves were done in in February when one bad fundamentally sound team “showed up” for spring training to “collect another post season birth”. I believe you do have to work at it a little harder than they did.
By J-Baller
June 5, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this
Don’t blame LaRoche for making that last out. He simply doesn’t know how to come through in the clutch. Kinda like Reeksma doesn’t know how to close. And how Giles doesn’t know how to make contact with anything over 90 mph. It sure has been a great year!…If you’re a Mets fan! Man, this season has been terrible. If you don’t make some moves now, when will you? There can’t be a better time to shake things up!
By J-Baller
June 5, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this
Don’t blame LaRoche for making that last out. He simply doesn’t know how to come through in the clutch. Kinda like Reeksma doesn’t know how to close. And how Giles doesn’t know how to make contact with anything over 90 mph. It sure has been a great year!…If you’re a Mets fan! Man, this season has been terrible. If you don’t make some moves now, when will you? There can’t be a better time to shake things up!
By J-Baller
June 5, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this
Don’t blame LaRoche for making that last out. He simply doesn’t know how to come through in the clutch. Kinda like Reeksma doesn’t know how to close. And how Giles doesn’t know how to make contact with anything over 90 mph. It sure has been a great year!…If you’re a Mets fan! Man, this season has been terrible. If you don’t make some moves now, when will you? There can’t be a better time to shake things up!
By Pete
June 5, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this
By MBATL
Pete, thanks. First, I think the short league Div. series is a joke; you build a team to win over the long haul, and baseball/t.v. decide there’s not time to play 7 games in the first series; a huge advantage for the less successful (wildcard) team, whose rotation might go 2-deep but not 3 or 4.
I agree, but that supposed advantage should disappear with the next round due to 7 game format. Yet last year, after beating the Braves, the Astros went on and defeated the Cards in a 7 game format. As you mentioned, the Marlins won it all twice as the wildcard. So that takes more than a roll of the dice (crapshoot), in my opinion.
Meanwhile, Marlins were not the only repeat champs. The Blue Jays won back to back World Series in the early 90’s (they beat the Braves and Phillies in the World Series).
By J-Baller
June 5, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this
BTW, I thought it was such an informative comment that everyone should read it three times!
By Poor Man
June 5, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this
I won’t give up on my Braves,ever! We will be back with more desire and power, we won’t give up, we are the Braves, “WE ARE GOING THRU SOME ROUGH TIMES” no doubt about it but we are not about to give up folks. I love my Braves more than ever and they need our support right now, if you jump ship don’t come back we don’t need you. What are we supposed to do? just lay down, of course not. We don’t need to blame a player or two actually we don’t need to blame any one at all we just need to pick up the pieces and go forward. That’s my opinion I welcome yours. GO BRAVES…!
By TheSouthernJackAss
June 5, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this
GO GNATS!!!…
By Mustache McGee
June 5, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this
I would also like to endorse Adam LaCrotch for player rep. I would also like to endorse the handlebars in their infant stage.
By Opinion
June 5, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this
Well my opinion is that there aren’t any pieces to pick there Poor Man…
By Ron Roberts
June 5, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this
Hey Kneejerk… dude, let’s see… one of us spends countless hours every spring with kids, teaching them the game, and the other cracks jokes on a blog about that guy…
Who wins, pal? Get a life. If my metaphor didn’t sink through your thick skull, can’t help ya. Oh, by the way, once I wrap up my 3rd division in a row this week and get asked to coach my league’s all-star team (again), I’ll let ya know. I don’t coach t-ball to accumlate a freakin’ record, ya schmuck… I do it ‘cause I love the game, I dig kids, and sometimes my and my assistant coaches’ presence is all the male influence some of these kids get.
But please, crack another joke about it. Makes you a big man, dude. Class.
Hey DOB, can I ask why it is the only time you decide to reply to some folks is when you try to counter their thoughts? Do I need to talk music to get on your good side? grins
You opinion is that picking up Dontrelle Willis (2-6 5.40 ERA) would seemingly catapult the Braves into being a serious World Series consideration… I think the team needs bullpen help and a true leadoff hitter. That’s all.
And let’s look at last year’s NL champion team, the Astros. They had Clemons, Oswalt and Pettite, aldong with a solid bullpen, and an offense that was struggling at this time last year, but was also picking up Lance Berkman (who’d spent a good portion of the early season injured and struggling).
Our Clemons/Oswalt/Pettite might be Smoltz/Hudson/Willis, but again, we lack the bullpen strength Houston had when they made their spectacular run last year, and our offense isn’t even as bad as theirs was at this point last season.
I think we already have the rotation arms to make it happen with Smoltz, Hudson, Horacio/Sosa/C.James (pick two) and Thomson (who is struggling but can’t have just forgotten to pitch, right?), with Davies on the mend, as well. I just happen to think that if we’re going to make a splash in the trade market, we’d be better served with a true leadoff OF corner and some bullpen arms.
Imagine getting Giles back to form in the 2-hole, pushing Renteria back to 3rd, with A. Jones, C. Jones, Francoeur, McCann (wow, league-leading guy in the 7th spot in the order… LaRoche at the 8 spot…see what that does to our lineup?
By Ron Roberts
June 5, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this
Gee, can’t believe I mis-spelled Roger C-L-E-M-E-N-S. My bad, rocket man.
By Bw
June 5, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this
Whos your leadxoff guy and how you getting him Ron?
By Chop Chop
June 5, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this
By Scott
June 5, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, if you don’t think Atlanta is a city that has history or tradition, then what constititutes it? The Braves are one of the oldest franchises in sports. They’ve been in the playoffs 14 straight seasons. They’ve drawn over 2 million fans 15 straight years and they are about to do it for a 16th straight. They’ve draw over 3 million fans 6 times. Even the Yankees used to get outdrawn by the Expos in the 80s. Do you not remember that?
Chop Chop here. Scott, the words “tradition” and “history” are usually reserved for teams that have been in the same place for a long, long time. The Braves have been in Atlanta since ‘66, so the “they’re one of the oldest franchises” argument doesn’t hold water in Atlanta. They were new to Atlanta in 1966. All of these playoff years that the Braves have had will be part of the tradition and history that young fans who are growing up right now will fondly look back upon. That will be what they remember when they’re old and gray. The belief among some people out there is that the Braves should draw 40,000 people for every game because of the way they have been winning. Of course, they haven’t done that. One reason the team hasn’t done it is because they don’t have the generations of obsessed fans to fill the park out. Maybe it’ll happen someday, but it’s not happening now. That was my point.
By Chop Chop
June 5, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this
Oh, and Ron, you misspelled a word (along) and put it in bold: aldong
Ouch.
By Ron Roberts
June 5, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this
Carl Crawford does make a good deal of sense, being that he’s a left-fielder who’s hitting and stealing bases effectively.
Of course, how must it feel to be a D-Rays fan and hear the names of your good guys always mentioned as trade bait?
Anyhow, he’s hitting .301 with 5 homers, 21 stolen bases (46 last year, along with 33 doubles, 15 triples and 15 homers, too).
By Ron Roberts
June 5, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this
Thank you, Chop Chop. I brought enough attention to my bad typing on my own, thank you very much. :)
By David O'Brien
June 5, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this
Ron, I am in complete agreement about the bullpen help. My thoughts on Dontrelle are unrelated. I believe if they could get him in ADDITION to getting bullpen help, they should. They need another good starter, because Thomson has fallen apart and Sosa is erratic. If Horacio keeps it up, sure, but you counting on that happening? Me neither.
Brian, I never once mentioned Chuck James or Davies. I mentioned the shortstop prospects and Salty, that’s all. Never mentioned James or Davies (just reiterating that, to make it clear).
Oh, and Ron, as far as leadoff, I just think they’ve waited six weeks for Giles to start doing what he’s doing now, what he’s done the past couple of weeks. Now that he’s hitting, not exactly the time to pull the plug on it. His numbers are strong since mid-May.
And why did someone ask me about Francoeur? If I state an opinion on him after the first 3-4 weeks of the season, that opinion can’t change 5-6 weeks later? Huh?
I wasn’t suggesting he be benched or sent to Richmond, merely that he take a seat once in a while, especially when struggling, just as Langerhans and Giles and Renteria have gotten a rest from time to time lately. And Frenchy’s homer tonight doesn’t change my opinion on that. The Braves’ production from RF is hurting, and the fact that they rank 10th in slugging from the position kind of hurts the argument that all they care about is power and run production there (they’re last, of course in OBP at the spot).
If you figure the RBI-per-at-bat with runners in scoring position, several guys on the team would have as many or more RBIs as Francoeur if they had nearly as many at-bats as him in those situations.
I love the guy’s talent, his energy, his attitude. Just think he gets a different treatment than all the other young guys, regardless of how he’s doing. He plays every day, every inning, no matter what he’s done at the plate.
Later, folks.
By David O'Brien
June 5, 2006 11:48 PM | Link to this
Oh, just one other thing, for sake of accuracy. I wrote in earlier post that Livan had an ERA of 3-something in his three playoff games vs. Braves (he’s 3-0 in those, including two starts and one relief appearance). Actually, his ERA in those games is 1.89. The 3-something ERA was his ERA in his three-game winning streak before tonight. I had both stats in same place and glanced at it wrong.
Peace
By TheSouthernJackAss
June 5, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this
I just don’t understand this meltdown, the Braves are basically the same mediocre team as last year, with the exception of vastly improving the short stop and catcher positions. The bullpen, or lack thereof, stunk last year just as it does this year. Reeksma is still reeking as closer, and hell, they even got rid of that scoundrel Kolb! I guess it just might be that ol’ genius Sourhurt’s luck at selling everyone on minor league players and worn out gimps at major league prices has ran out. Or it could be as simple as poor management and an ineffectual coaching staff. At any rate, most teams would be calling for the manager’s head by this time. Face it, top management people are leaving, Mazzone is gone, less and less games are televised, and the bums are for sale and most likely will be bought out by another corporation only interested in bottom line. Time to unload and retool, get rid of big money contracts, and that old manager that “never” tries anything different!!!…GO TIGERS!!!…
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this
After tonight, I have to say this team is a long, long way from “tradition”. It was the “tradition” of the previous 14 season that the team relied heavily, if not entirely, on pitching and defense. We have shown poor pitching and miserable defense this year. I think these bats are talented enough to knock in runs if they’d quit striking out, but there is still more to the game than that. It’s like all the “fundamentals” are missing from this team. I believe the coaches are supposed to drill them on that? Maybe I’m missing the point of a coach, but someone should be down there teaching them to look the ball into the glove, hit your cut-off man, catch with two hands, follow through, get ‘em on, get ‘em over and get ‘em in.
There are so many things frustrating about this team. Maybe I should say, about this group of ball players.
By Ron Roberts
June 5, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this
I get what you’re saying about Giles, at least. If you erase April, he’s hitting .284 with 10 doubles and 12 RBI, scoring 21 runs, too. It just seems that maybe grabbing a Carl Crawfod (and a healthy McCann) really stacks our lineup as very strong (at it’s best, with Francoeur off the shnide) and gives us offensive options, period. We can hit for average, run the bases, hit for power, hit and run, etc.
And I’m all for picking up Willis, so long as we don’t think that’s all it’ll take.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this
The guys that worry me, offensively, are Langerhans and Francoeur…another reason I’m all for grabbing Carl Crawfod. One of those guys has to be sat down.
Those two are stru-guh-lin’
By Poor Man
June 6, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this
We are not going to lose it, we are going to be alright,we are the Braves, yes we will pick the pieces up and we will march forward toward the playoffs. That’s my opinion and I welcome yours. Not yours SJA your IQ is little over room temprature my friend. GO BRAVES. OPINION YOU ARE ALLRIGHT JUST BE POSITIVE.
By TheSouthernJackAss
June 6, 2006 12:07 AM | Link to this
There goes another azz hole attacking the SJA, bitin’ off more than he can chew, you’ll never learn!!!…GO METS!!!
By Poor Man
June 6, 2006 12:14 AM | Link to this
YOUR LANGUAGE SHOWS WHAT KIND OF A GENTELMAN OR A LADY YOU ARE SJA. GO BRAVES. I LOVE MY BRAVES I JUST DO. WHEN IT IS OVER WE WILL BE SITTING ON TOP OF EVERY TEAM IN OUR DIVISION INCLUDING THE METS OF NEW YORK.
By Submariner
June 6, 2006 12:17 AM | Link to this
DOB, good stuff. I’m in the Navy and stationed overseas. This is the only place where I can get the REAL DEAL on what’s going on.
I do think that Dontrelle Willis is a must have. If the Mets aquire him, it’s all but over and you might as well start the rebuild for next year. Luckily for us that NY is NY.
I agree that the fixes are simple. It’s getting it done that’s hard. Trading for another stud started and some pen help, getting Betemit in the line-up more often, and Frenchy getting some plate discipline would fix this team up pretty nice.
Keep us informed on the possibilities of bringing in some pitching help.
By Marc
June 6, 2006 12:25 AM | Link to this
Don’t look now, but the Braves are about to be 7 games behind the Mets. We have them right where we want them. But seriously folks, this might be one of the most flawed teams in the whole run. You know a team is in trouble when every night they find a new way to lose. One night it is the starters, the next night it is the bullpen, the next the hitters, the next the defense. Rarely this year have these for shown up to the same game with a Braves uniform. I think that the blame can be spread out to everyone in the organization. The players are not playing good sound baseball, the coaches are not coaching good sound baseball. McDowell has failed to turn the bullpen around, (his expertise), Terry has failed to make the Braves hitters more selective at the plate, Bobby has failed to motivate this team to not only win, but to play the game the right way. The front office has done nothing to this point to plug these holes. Unless you consider sending down Cormier to make room for Yates, YIKES.
So lets look at this. Before the season started the Braves needed a closer, a leadoff hitter, a setup man, a 1st baseman, and maybe a left fielder. JS got Renteria, now he has been great, but I contend this was the least of the needs. Renteria is not a leadoff hitter and the roster already had Betemit, who is quite ready to play. Estrada was traded for Villareal, and COrmier. Villareal was coming off of major arm problems, and that is now showing, as he gives up a run every time he pitches, and Cormier, who never has had a full good year. That has shown itself as he was sent down. Diaz was acquired for outfield depth, but he rarely plays and I think he is not a regular everyday player. Now the Braves still need a closer, a setup man, a 1st baseman, a leadoff hitter,(I know Giles has played better of late, but he is streaky and strikes out a lot. His at bat in the 9th inning was troublesome to me, he had worked the count to 3 and 0, I think he should have taken two pitches, whatever it took to get on base. Instead he swung hard at two pitches maybe out of the zone. If he gets on base the Braves at least tie. Another leadoff hitter in my opinion gets on base there.) maybe a left fielder, and a starter. Maybe the Braves get two of the above pieces, but that still leaves several holes, for good play to leak out of. I think what hasn’t been discussed enough is how much the Braves miss Julio Franco’s steady glove, bat and leadership. He could have played 90-100 games and given the Braves a solid one, two punch at first. I think JS should have stopped at nothing to resign Franco and Furcal, and traded or overpaid for a closer. Furcal has struggled a little bit, but that could be him adjusting to a new team. With his rifle arm, peskiness, and speed, I think the Braves would be better off.
Tonight’s game was frustrating, one bad inning and we lose, every game the Brave do just enough to lose. In my opinion the errors are not the only reason for the loss, Hudson has to be an ace and make the pitches to minimize the damage, in my opinion he has been very inconsistent. he allowed over 10 baserunners in 5 innings, that is just not good enough. This team needs to start acting like a team. When have you ever heard a Braves player say that they are not playing like a team. “We are pulling for each other, but we are not playing as a team” I think that it is time the players step up, the coaches need to be accountable, and they need to step up, the front office needs to step up. No more excuses from Bobby, no more JS saying “I’m not worried”, “Bobb can do this”. It’s time for Bobby and JS to show some fire, let the players know that loosing, and poor play is not going to be tolerated. I believe in this Braves team, but they need to start showing some urgency, play better, coach better, and make some moves. It may not be to late, but it’s definetly getting dark out. Go Braves!!!!!!!!!!
By BirdDawg
June 6, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this
Bobby Cox’s idiocy isn’t being contained to October anymore.
It’s going to be a long summer, folks.
By Bob, journalist
June 6, 2006 12:59 AM | Link to this
MBATL,
Picky, picky … I think you know my intent as well as I … seriously, it was a long time ago but I remember a player hitting a home run and being chewed out by the manager because that wasn’t what he was supposed to have done … and rightly so.
Your “coin flipping” analogy was very good, at least for those who want to understand … 1/8 for evenly matched teams accross the board; Bobby’s comments should be understood and appreciated by everyone … a least from my perspective, to say that they’re evenly matched is to say that it is a crapshoot.
Looking at our World Series appearances, we could just as easily had 3 World Series victories as opposed to one … four, if you include the NY comback year.
Even if a team if favored to win 60% of each of the 3 series, they can be expected to win it all only slightly better than 1 in 5 times.
Some people don’t realize how remarkable the 14 year run has been … while an accurate analysis would be quite complex, we do know that … if the probably of winning the division in a single year were 1 in 2 (50%), … the probability of winning 14 straight would be about 6 in 100,000.
It would be difficult to understand those who question Bobby’s ability and record on the basis of short-series, post season results … were it not for the annual well intending, but perhaps somewhat pompous proclamations of some within the organization that the season will not be considered a success unless it ends with a World Series victory.
It’s only my opinion but I think that those who scoff at your post are either just attempting to have fun at your expense … or, are choosing to belittle that which they do not understand … the former being the easier to believe.
By JJMB
June 6, 2006 01:04 AM | Link to this
Submariner, First, thanks for serving our country.
Second, serving on a submarine has to be a total gas! The modern nuclear submarine is the pinacle of man’s creation! (Well, some of the flying-around things are pretty cool
Thanks again, sailor.
By Ralph
June 6, 2006 01:05 AM | Link to this
What’s wrong with the Brave? lets begin with everything. They lack ambition, motivation, attitude leadership, coming to the park with a winning attitude and play like someone in the team knows what they are doing and of course needing a First baseman, a left fielder, starters and most of all relief pitchers. The basic principle of baseball Keep your eyes on the ball and make contact, that means don’t strike out so much, If its around home plate swing at the damn thing. No doubt the Brave play like a little league team and hit like one. They don’t have that a winning mentality, you can sense it in the !st. inning of the opening pitch. Half of the team act like they half sober, the other half look like they have been up all night going to parties and haven’t being to bed all night. I keep hearing excuses from the announcers that they have been on a 5 days road trip, but isn’t that part of their job to give everything they have, you are talking about 6 hours. In the real world that those kind of excuses will get you butt fired and people don’t even make baseball minimum wage, I think its about $300,000. In watching the braves for a number of years I think this Braves team remind me of teams of the 80’s or look like a bunch of looses. From the looks of the way they have been playing the cycle has come around and the end is near. Maybe if Bobby instead of say come on Rochy or what, hit the ball, he would say get of you dead butt and hit the ball, or tomorrow you be going back to the minors or working at Mickey D., along Chipper and a few others. For pete sake stop your baby sitting. If a few less fan would stop going to the games maybe the clones who owned the Brave will do something. But from the looks of the way the braves games are bring put on different channels with all the announcers its becoming a mess, and moving toward the down fall of the Atlanta Braves is near and a team that once had owners who once respect Georgia and her baseball fans are no longer respect the fans, but the state of Georgia.
By J-Baller
June 6, 2006 01:18 AM | Link to this
Would you rather have Edgar Renteria or Coco Crisp? The Braves traded Marte for Renteria and then Boston traded him for Crisp. So is it Crisp and Betemit(SS) or Renteria and Langerhans? I know Renteria has been outstanding but who knows what Betemit could have done everyday. Plus, Giles probobly would have done better in his normal #2 hole with Crisp in front of him.
By burt
June 6, 2006 01:21 AM | Link to this
this team is not put togather. if they had won half of the one run games they have lost, they would be in first place in the east. they can’t hit. if you can’t hit, you can’t win.
By wrmsprngsdawg
June 6, 2006 01:50 AM | Link to this
I think it’s time to go ahead and shovel dirt on this edition of the Braves.Not sure if this bunch has a pulse left at all.This team can’t even execute the basic fundamentals of baseball anymore.Has anyone in the outfield hit a cut-off man all year?The defense has been middling to poor.We have the most undisciplined lineup in baseball.3-5 spots in starting rotation are mediocre.Bullpen?This is the worst collection of stiffs since the dreaded Ghastly Boys of 1990.This team needs a swift kick in the @SS.They don’t need a cheerleader.Im afraid trading a prospect like Salty for Dontrelle Willis at this point would be futile.It would be like putting a band-aid on bullet wound from a 57 magnum.
By Bob, journalist
June 6, 2006 02:10 AM | Link to this
David O’B, sometimes the truth doesn’t have to be told … for example, “that’s the second time this season the Nationals have scored five runs in an inning after an Adam LaRoche error on a Nick Johnson grounder”
10 Paul, correct me if I’m wrong but if the probability of winning is 1/8 then isn’t the probability of 0 wins in 14 tries about 15% … 1 win 31% … 2 wins 29% and 3+ wins 25%. In other words, the most likely outcome would be 1 win … is that what you get?
By teoa
June 6, 2006 02:12 AM | Link to this
Count me in the minority who thinks Salty for Dontrelle would be a bad move:
Dontrelle has complicated mechanics to say the least (which have caused several breakdowns in the postseason if I remember correctly), and Roger McDowell has not exactly proven himself to be another Leo. There is no guarantee that coming to a bad Braves team will turn him around.
I have no confidence that Liberty will be big spenders — it seems probable the Braves would be giving away their top hitting prospect in years for a rental of Willis, whereas Salty would be in Atlanta for several years at least.
Starting pitching is not too high on the list of problems with this team in my opinion. There have been some unusually bad games from Thomson lately and I have no confidence in Sosa, but it’s not like there aren’t potential fixes in the organization if problems continue (i.e. call up James, Davies coming back.)
I question whether Time Warner will be willing to take on any additional salary before the sale anyway, but if they did okay a trade for Willis, the Braves would surely be stuck with their current bullpen and everyday lineup (aside from minor league call-ups) for the rest of the year. I would be absolutely shocked if they were willing to add 4.35 mil for Willis and then 2-4 mil more for a possible closer and another bat. Let’s not forget this is the same organization that decided the best pitching coach in baseball wasn’t worth 0.5 mil.
Even if Willis turns it around this year, how many of his wins would this bullpen blow? Let’s focus on the main problem areas first. Getting through 6-7 innings with a lead hasn’t been that big of a problem…it’s what happens after that.
I think one more huge bat (at 1B) in the middle of the order could turn things around for everyone. What if Salty ends up being a .310/40 hr/120 rbi guy? (Isn’t that the kind of potential people think he has?) What would that kind of protection do for Andruw? Seems to me it would take the pressure off of everyone. Giles’ job would be easier if the middle of the order was that strong. Frenchy would probably be better. You could afford Langerhans’ great defense/.250 bat in the 8th spot, although I’d be willing to bet his average would rise 20 points or so too if his offense was treated as a bonus. I realize this is a big if and I know Salty isn’t going to be ready to provide numbers anywhere close to that this year and probably not next year, but if it’s possibly in him in the future, he’s worth the gamble in my opinion. I don’t see the Braves getting a huge bat in free agency any time soon and prospects like Salty are rare, so let’s see what we’ve got. A great everyday player would surely make a bigger impact on this team than one more starting pitcher (and a few more blown saves.)
First base is the ideal position to add offense in my opinion. LaRoche has been given WAY too much of a pass here (since people started feeling sorry for him after his last 5 run defensive screw-up) and his lack of productivity has added a lot of pressure to the young guys. The main argument I see here for continued playing time is his defense, but what team has ever had a full-time defensive specialist at first base? We’re not talking about a SS or 2B or OF that can save you a bunch of runs — a 1B has to hit. And LaRoche’s .250, nonchalent attitude, no clutch hits, no protection for Andruw just doesn’t cut it for a 1B. The fact that his backup (Jordan) isn’t good enough to play for any other major league team is not an excuse either — bring up Thorman, tell Bobby this team is beyond the point of him holding onto a few mascots (his favorite horrible players — especially Reitsma and Jordan), do whatever you have to do. And finally, the whole defensive argument for LaRoche is completely bogus anyway. As he demonstrates on a regular basis, his defense is extremely overrated. The fact that he lucks into a great play once a month does not excuse him from making routine plays. He’s now on a 12 error pace for the year — gold glove first basemen frequently make just a couple all year. I don’t care what the numbers say, LaRoche is the Braves biggest offensive liability right now, and a possible All Star replacement is on the way. Let’s hold on to him.
By Head Coach
June 6, 2006 02:14 AM | Link to this
I agree with all of you , they stink and its only going to get worse. How do I know ? Its simple , they are 13-4 against teams with a losing record and 15-26 against teams with a winning record. Thats called non-competitive against equal or better competition. A fire sale in the month of july “before the july 31st trading dead line” would be in order , time to rebuild before they waste the rest of this season. Seriously , a fire sale….. pull the plug , this team is playing way below its talent ability.
By teoa
June 6, 2006 03:10 AM | Link to this
hk, interesting spreadsheet…I don’t think I’m smart enough to understand all of it, but it’s interesting anyway.
chop chop, here are the stats for the Braves pitchers who pitched last year under Leo and this year under McDowell.
2005 ERA first, 2006 ERA second
Davies 4.93 / 6.12 Hudson 3.52 / 3.93 Smoltz 3.06 / 3.72 Sosa 2.55 / 5.07 Thomson 4.47 / 4.65 Ramirez 4.63 / 3.18 Reitsma 3.93 / 7.20
Davies and Ramirez probaby should be thrown out of the comparison since neither has pitched much this year. Everyone else is on a pace to give up more earned runs than last year — some are slightly worse, others are a lot worse. It would be hard to argue this is a coincidence when the Braves decided to replace the best pitching coach in baseball with a pitching coach with no major league experience. I don’t necessarily blame McDowell, I just think anyone other than Leo is a downgrade.
In my opinion, letting Leo go is the prime example of the corporate penny pinching finally eroding all this organization has built up over the years. When you can pay 500K to a coach and get a better performance out of virtually all of your millionaire pitchers but choose not to, that tells me this organization cares little about winning any more.
Bobby Cox gets so much of the credit, but he’s never won anything without Leo. It remains to be seen whether or not he can, but I think Bobby may be like one of the successful “cheerleader” college football coaches (think Bobby Bowden or Phil Fulmer), who may be Hall of Famers, but no one ever accused them of being great “football minds”. There is nothing wrong with that and I don’t mean to insult any of these coaches (they are all great at what they do), but it is often the case that these types of coaches are only as good as their assistants. When the tactical geniuses leave, suddenly the head guy doesn’t look quite so smart any more. I hope I am wrong and that Bobby has been the key to the Braves success for the last 14 years…but I suspect he is merely an important role player in a great organization that is in a long, slow decline. There is still enough left in the system for hope for the future, but if ownership only cares about the value of its stocks, then it’s going to be hard for the Braves to compete.
By kevin
June 6, 2006 03:28 AM | Link to this
Is getting Dontrelle Willis something that could help the team tremendously? I mean he’s been struggling just as badly as Thomson per se…hasn’t he?
By Woogidy
June 6, 2006 06:26 AM | Link to this
Someone needs to tell the Braves that Goatees and handlebar sideburns are the formula for success, not those silly Paul Sr. Mustaches.
By Coop
June 6, 2006 06:32 AM | Link to this
I love reading the player comments after the game. “We’re just playing well enough to lose.” Blah, blah,blah. The problem with this Brave team is simple. This team will continue to lose just as long as they continue to believe that they are “supposed” to win. This statement would have had some validity in Brave teams of old, but this is a mediocre ball club and at some point they have to admit it. Then come out and play harder than they ever have before. Do the little things that teams playing above their paygrade have to do to win. Stars or so-called stars have to put their egos in their pockets and sacrifice their stats for the good of the team. That’s what we’re facing ladies and gents. Otherwise, we need not be surprised that teams like the Nationals who are just as talented continue to beat us. No one fears the Braves anymore; their just another team in the division.
By Ken
June 6, 2006 07:04 AM | Link to this
I like your idea of shopping Salty et al for Willis…another deal I’d look into is shipping Laroche for bullpen help and playing Chipper at first and Betemit at third…I like Laroche but he is never gonna hit over .270…Betemit will and can play third right now…Chipper isn’t getting any younger and first base would prolong his career
By KneeJerk
June 6, 2006 07:17 AM | Link to this
Ron Roberts- I coach at the M.S level and have been doing so for 9 years. I don’t get on the board and brag about making my players give up an at bat. And my guys aren’t 6 years old. You sound like the typical recreation coach who’s out there to stroke an ego instead of teaching the basics and letting the kids succeed. If my kid was on your team, I’d dread the situation with a runner on 2nd infront of my son. Your kids have perfected a baseball swing? If not, then you shouldn’t be working on directional hitting. Teach them a good swing, then work on catching the ball and situational defense. Don’t come on here and whine about volunteering your time if you’re not teaching these kids the correct progression
By Carroll
June 6, 2006 07:17 AM | Link to this
IF we could get another solid starter, a la Dontrelle, then I say dump Tim Hudson. He’s NEVER gonna be the “ace” we thought we were getting and paid for. He hasn’t been bad but at the deadline he would seem like Cy Young to some desperate team…we could dump him for a solid reliever or two and prospects…or whatever we may want/need at that time.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 08:01 AM | Link to this
Oh, how convenient, KneeJerk… now you want to mention that you coach at the “M.S.” level, you call it? Is that Middle School” you’re talking about? So you’re on somebody’s payroll to coach? You mean to tell me that you work with kids? Do you “coach” ‘em to judge people they don’t know, too? Or to blindly criticize? Scary stuff, *”coach.”
Since you’re a “middle school baseball coach,” then you’ll know that giving yourself up to advance runners is part of the game, pal. And who the hell are you to question my intentions in coaching, anyhow? I don’t *brag about what I do; let’s remember I only brought it up to point out that the Braves don’t do enough of those basic run-producing steps.
Oh, and because I have to take into consideration that all the kids are there to have fun, and hope to hit, run the bases and score, we do what we can to make sure that kids aren’t always being run into force-outs. Did ya consider that whenpiping off about my volunteer-coaching?
And we do work on perfecting their swing and practice defense consistently, as well.
Let’s just say that if I had a kid on your team on 2nd base, I’d dread your constantly hitting them into force outs, too, while the scoreboard sported a big doughnut. Apparently that’s how you’d coach t-ball. Just throw ‘em out there and let ‘em hack away without picking up any of the game’s basic tenets.
By the way, we also have pizza parties, ice cream stops after games (win or lose) and improve as a team - collectively. T-ball on our teams are about fun.
By **BRAVENBRUNSWICK**
June 6, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this
I have finally found someone who agrees with me. I have been telling everyone at the office that Bobby should be putting Betemit at 1st base. He is an outstanding fielder and has been an excellent hitter his entire career. It boggles my mind that Bobby won’t put him at first. LaBum is a lousy hitter and his defense has cost us a couple of games as well, we need as much fire power in the line up as we can get and Wilson will help. We have been hearing how good he is for years and he has proven that correct with his limited play the last 2 years, what is it going to take for hard headed Cox to get him in the lineup on a regular basis? Another thing, Chipper needs to get his act in gear, is the end really that close for him? I don’t think it is but his power numbers are awful. We have been in this spot before and come back and won, but for some reason this collection of players doesn’t give me all that much confidence. I do believe Bobby and John will do something to improve the bullpen, I just hope they use Wilson at first and not as trade bait.
By John
June 6, 2006 08:23 AM | Link to this
DOB,This is a great article,I agree with you,the Braves need to get Dontrelle Willis now before the Yankees or Muts get him,you are right we should give up Salty to get him,i have said all along that we should give up Salty and Larew for Willise and Joe Borowski,everyone keeps saying that we should get Lidge as our closer but i disagree with that,we don’t need Lidge,True borowski may not be a big name closer but he got some movement on his ball and he can do the job,better than Reitsma.Then we need to get rid of John Thomson,i say for him try to send him to the Pirates for Craig Wilson,Wilson can play first and the outfield and can be a good back up,better than BJ.if no takers for Thomson then release him,also the plan to put Betemit is a good idea if the Braves can’t get someone like wilson. DOB your ideas are god and correct.the Braves need to do something now and not wait until the trade deadline,ever heard of he who hesitates is lost,thats what is gonna happen to the Braves if they keep fooling around and not doing anything.This team is horrible.
By John
June 6, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this
DOB,This is a great article,I agree with you,the Braves need to get Dontrelle Willis now before the Yankees or Muts get him,you are right we should give up Salty to get him,i have said all along that we should give up Salty and Larew for Willise and Joe Borowski,everyone keeps saying that we should get Lidge as our closer but i disagree with that,we don’t need Lidge,True borowski may not be a big name closer but he got some movement on his ball and he can do the job,better than Reitsma.Then we need to get rid of John Thomson,i say for him try to send him to the Pirates for Craig Wilson,Wilson can play first and the outfield and can be a good back up,better than BJ.if no takers for Thomson then release him,also the plan to put Betemit is a good idea if the Braves can’t get someone like wilson. DOB your ideas are god and correct.the Braves need to do something now and not wait until the trade deadline,ever heard of he who hesitates is lost,thats what is gonna happen to the Braves if they keep fooling around and not doing anything.This team is horrible.Alos Scott Sullivan is available.go after him.
By KneeJerk
June 6, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this
Moving runners over is part of BASEBALL, not t-ball. Why should I have brought up the fact that I’m a middle school coach. So I can add credence to my criticism of Bobby Cox? Like a middle school coach or t-ball hack know as much as Bobby? Seriously Ron, when your guys reach the next level, the ball won’t be on a tee waiting to get hit. The ball will be moving and some guys will swing and miss a lot. Focus on a good swing and making contact, not giving yourself up. They won’t be able to use your “strategies” effectively for a few years. It’s like trying to teach a kid to add fractions before whole numbers. Ron, I judge by actions. I don’t give kids a Mike Brady speech as you might.
You do what you can to make sure kids aren’t being run into force outs? Ron, you make them hit into a force out at first base. Let these 6 year olds have a chance at success, not at being told to make an out.
By wrmsprngsdawg
June 6, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
Do you think Bobby Cox would still be employed by George Steinbrenner,if the Yankees only had one World Series championship after 14 division championships?He would have been gone after the great choke job of 1996 if he had been coaching in New York.He certainly would have been shown the door after the 1999 series sweep.I thought the goal of every mlb organization was to win the World Series,not division titles?The Braves have ceased to matter as a power broker in baseball,ever since Wohlers hung that slider to Leyritz.It wasn’t the sale of the team to Time Warner that started the decline.We still have an 80 million $ payroll.We’re not the Royals and Marlins,folks.Might be time to start shopping some high salaried veterans instead of trading our future away.How many championships have we won with Chipper and Andruw in the middle of our lineup anyway?We’re going to see how good Bobby Cox is the remaining 4 months of the season without Leo in the dugout.I think I already know the answer.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
KneeJerk…
My kids move on to pitching machine and live arm leagues and do quite fine, thank you. And they graduate to those levels knowing why they can’t always reach base, run the bases and score; they also know what “teamwork” is all about. If teaching my 5-6 year olds to be a team player somehow disagrees with you, so be it.
And you’re so adept to point out it’s just t-ball…. and you’re right. So what makes you think these kids are hitting into outs, anyhow? Trust me - more often than not, they’re reaching base and moving runners over.
I’ve coached at this and the live-arm level for nine years, myself, in three different states, and you’re the first person - period - to have a problem with moving runners over at our level.
By Cullydawg
June 6, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
Why Braves are struggling. 1.Worst bullpen I have ever seen 2.No Production in LF 3.Little production at 1b 4.No production at C(since injury) 5.Giles struggling at leadoff 6.Starters are adequate but not good enough to overcome the above. Considering the above we are lucky to be hovering around .500!
By Robert
June 6, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this
Amen wrmsprngsdawg
Someone before was talking about this team being flawed.
Folks, any team with Bobby Cox as manager is intrinsically flawed.
That’s why some teams that should’ve been great, that should have constituted a dynasty, managed one World Series title. And it took a Tom Glavine gem (what was it, three hiteer? one hitter?) and an equally buffoonish opposing manager (Mike Hargrove) to get that done
By Daria
June 6, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
DOB—
I think the Braves need to solve the 1B problem, as LaRoche is simply a liability. What would it take to get, say, Nick Johnson from the Nats? He’d be an affordable, solid contributer that would instantly improve our offense.
Also, if that’s not feasible, what about trying to work a package deal out with the Pirates for Mike Gonzalez and Craig Wilson? I know Gonzalez would cost a lot in terms of prospects but he would be a terrific option at closer, IMO. And, he’s a lefty. Wilson could play 1st or Left (another weak point for the Braves.) I think JS has to think about doing more then just getting a bullpen arm. This team has other needs that should be addressed.
Thoughts?
By Blaster
June 6, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this
When Turner South has the Braves games I used to turn the volume down on “I mean, you know” Gant and the “walking baseball trivia encylopedia” Torborg and listen to the radio but the TV picture is about 2-3 seconds behind the radio. I have resorted to just the radio broadcasts now. It is so much more pleasant.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
Are ya’ll talking about replacing the same Adam LaRoche that’s** .292 with 5 HR and 19 RBI the last 32 games, going into last night?
Take away April (where he still hit 4 HR & 12 RBI) and that’s what his stats are, folks. Take off the hate LaRoche at all costs for whatever reason blinders and dig a little deeper.
Face it, we don’t have a Pujuls at 1B, and aside from McGriff in the mid-90s, a power-hitting high-average guy at 1B hasn’t played in Atlanta in a long time, anyhow.
In general, you get .270 with 20+HR and 70 RBI from him, and some breath-taking plays at first,too. All the negative folks here want to focus on are the errors… all players make ‘em.
Anyhow, let me know when a better bat and glove at 1B becomes available in a trade.
By Sammy Kershaw
June 6, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this
LaCrotch is a liability. Ron you make a good point but then i looked it up and realized you cant take away April. You dont get muligans just because you suck. When he goes on another god-awful hitless streak are you gonna just toss out that month too? His defense is pretty good (when he is paying attention). Ill give you that, but overall he is a liability, and the smart money is on LaCrotch never sniffing 270.
By Blaster
June 6, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this
Has anybody noticed that when the cameras pan in on the Braves’ dugout the amount of smiles and grab-a**ing going on at times when the ship is sinking? I agree with a previous blog. Cox need to get a little discipline going. And how about a little $1,000 fine every time Francouer swings at the first pitch?
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this
The question, Sammy Kershaw, is how does what he did in April affect what he does the rest of the season?
The point is, he’s doing well the last 30 games, so why toss him aside now that he’s hitting for average and production? Makes no sense.
I remember a blogger who wanted to get rid of Andruw Jones based on his April/May numbers last year; I’m glad nobody in the franchise took his assertions seriously now.
By Little Larry Tee-Ball
June 6, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
I play tee-ball for coach. He is pretty intenze and he demands we play good if we get ice cream. Every year coach’s team gets into the playoffs and every year we get dusted in the first round. My best friend says coach is the reason. I think coach is nice but he may get too intenze. Why is he so intenze? Even his blogs are intenze. Why? NO, REALLY, WHY?? Why is everyone so **intenze”“? Did I mis-spell intenze? I am just 6 years old and everybody is so intenze but I love baseball and my favorite player is Adam Laroche because he in never intenze. Little Larry
By Sammy Kershaw
June 6, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
No Ron, the question is how did this guy make the big leagues. Im not saying toss him aside but it would only make sense to look at a backup plan that doesnt involve Brian (more washed up than Reggie Sanders) Jordan. Maybe they will take another look at Betemit as a 1st baseman every now and then. Or Jurries will get hot and get called up. I must say i find myself hoping for a LaCrotch injury(nothing serious just soemthing to give someone else a look), but he doesnt move fast enough to get hurt. If LaCrotch is your 5 hole hitter you are not in good shape bottom line.
By Peter
June 6, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
Ask ourselves something..did trading Marquis and Wainwright bring us a WS title? Did trading Cappellan bring a WS title?
Even IF Willis was available we must remember that he’s never been a free agent. He most certainly going to file when he’s eligible and I have heard a very credible rumor that Liberty wants the ‘07 payroll at $65 million.
Where’s Dontrelle fit into that? Let’s not forget that Hampton will have to be paid his entire salary next season.
Salty is one of our few power prospects and you just can’t go and pick one off of the tree. With all of the problems on the team there is no one trade that can fix those. Sure, go ahead and trade him and when Dontrell is pitching for the Yanks or Mets or D’backs and Salty is hitting bombs in San Antonio, Vegas or where ever the fish end up let everybody who wants this trade stand up then and tell us what you think.
By Lew
June 6, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Does anyboby think that this lack of adherence to the basics might have something to do with the surreal Spring Training we just had? The Braves are one of the worst teams for doing minor things. Bunts don’t get put down. Cutoff men are missed on a regular basis. Runners are not advanced by hitting to the right side. Relay throws are routinely missed. The play is sloppier than I have seen in years. Bud Selig may think the WBC is the greatest thing since the proverbial sliced bread, but I think it has totally screwed up the process of getting ready for the season. To Robert-man, you deserve to be a Devil Ray’s fan. Why don’t you find another team to rag on? The reason other cities laugh at Braves’ fans is not because we can’t advance in the playoffs, it is because the Atlanta fans are the most spoiled, foreign object up their butt idiots I have ever encountered. How would you like to be a Cubs fan? The team has definite problems that need to be addressed. Whether or not JS can afford to address them remains to be seen, but the answer is not throwing personal insults and death threats at Chris Reitsma. What are you people? Are you from Philadelphia?
By GeneralGrant
June 6, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this
Adumb LaRoach sucks, looks like a damn mannequin or something on the field, and enough already with the little league, t-ball, middle school baseball trash talk, we’re getting enough of that with the Braves! The problem with the Braves is their egos, their egos are about 10 times bigger than their talent. They have been told how damn great they are by Bob Cox for so long that now they believe it. There are only 2 or 3 players on this current team that put out any real effort at all, Betemet, Diaz, and McCann. Francoeur’s end of the season flash in the pan achievements of last season have ruined him, he thinks he’s great now. He thinks he is Babe Ruth at the plate, prima Dona in right, and Don Juan in the dugout! Another “it’s all about me” player. I’m done, the whole damned Braves organization sucks dirty dishwater! Andruw can’t remember from 1 season to the next how to bat, Chipper ain’t got it, Giles thinks he is a homerun hitter, by the way, is it just me, or does Giles look strikingly similar to Karl Childers? Smoltz is worn out, Hudson never was what he was advertised to be, Soso is a no talent fat slob, there is no bullpen, and Booger is in love with Reeksma, and never tries anything new! What a mess! But seriously, unless the Braves get an owner interested in baseball and “winning World Series Championships” with the money to do so, and until the Braves pipe in a little fresh thinking and get rid of this deadwood manager and his coaching staff, then what you have now is about as good as it’s going to get! Any other team playing like this (except the Braves), and the manager’s head would already be on the chopping block! And don’t say it’s not the manager’s fault, look what Jim Leyland is doing for the Tigers!
By braves fan
June 6, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this
I agree with most of what DOB has said. I also think Chuck James needs to be recalled ASAP to take Sosa’s rotation spot, along with the closer from Richmond. But all that being said, the Braves still are capable of turning this season around. Remember how awful the Astros were last season but still made the World Series. The Braves were awful early on last season as well, but were able to adjust and win the division. Andruw Jones was horrid last season until Chipper got hurt and then absolutely exploded. This season Andruw’s numbers are ahead of his numbers at this time last year. And now they have the advantage of a healthy Chipper in the lineup. So they can be better. The biggest problem I see this year is the defense. Last year they led the league in fielding %. This year they keep making stupid mistakes that lead to big innings. These plays absolutely demoralize a team that has a tough time scoring runs AND has a terrible bullpen. I’m sorry, but Adam LaRoche has to be sat down for his lack of focus at 1B. Cox says he just misplayed that ball from Nick Johnson, but what I saw was a guy lacking focus. He could easily have moved up in front of the ball, played it off his chest and still had plenty of time to beat Johnson to the bag. But instead he tried to field it one handed while moving toward the bag. I kept looking for Bobby to pop out of the dugout and pull LaRoche like he did Andruw Jones 10 years ago. But he didn’t. And I don’t know what the hell Giles was thinking. The game was still close, just get a freakin out man!!!! They need to take the defense back to basics, as insulting as that might feel to major leaguers, it needs to be done. Focus and fundamentals. If they can get that squared away, then pitchers can feel more comfortable making pitches that result in plays in the field. And the offense won’t be required to come back from 5 runs after a mental goof in the field. Starters can stay in games longer and ease the pressure on the bullpen. I mean, Huddy was cruising along last night. He makes a couple pitches that result in routine grounders to 1B and 2B. Next thing you know, he’s losing 5-2 instead of up 2-0. That’s crap.
By JOHN B.
June 6, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
This team has two major problems.
The bullpen could be decent if used correctly. Reitsma just needs to go, period. Release him, trade him for a bag of baseballs, anything. He may be a nice guy, but he can’t pitch. And the Braves need to trade for one more solid reliever (they have money saved from Chipper’s contract). I think Joe Nathan will be available as the Twins are going nowhere. The Braves have numerous prospects the Twins would be interested in. I would think a combo of 2 of the following should be enough: Devine, Beau Jones, and Lerew. Nathan is only 30 and has been in pennant chases with the Twins so he should be great for enough years.
I am in complete agreement that Willis for Salty and another prospect would be worth it. That would solidify the Braves rotation and inject some youth and enthusiasm as well.
I think a trade for Carl Crawford would be a great idea because he is a great young hitter who is signed for a reasonable price for 3 or 4 more years. He still needs to improve on plate discipline but he has made adjustments. Of course, the D-Rays would want the Braves whole farm system. If they could get him for Escobar and Davies or James. I would not trade both Davies and James, and would only trade one of them if Willis has been acquired.
This team is not as bad as they have played. Cox just needs to light a fire by beching guys that make multiple stupid mistakes. Things like guys not moving runners over, guys swinging at first pitches when the pitcher is struggling, our pitchers walking lead off guys, things like that. Benching guys when they don’t execute the fundamentals. Taking a guy off the field for making a bone headed mistake. Cox can still be a players’ manager, but just light a fire when one is needed. And yes, one is needed now!!
And I am not bad mouthing Cox. I think he is one of the best managers of all time.
I don’t blame Bobby Cox for only 1 WS ring in the last 15 years. He has made some questionable decisions, but all managers do. They are only human. The Braves have had a lot of bas luck in the playoffs.
I do give Cox the credit for winning 14 consecutive division titles. There were some years that the Braves had no business winning the division.
By greg
June 6, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this
no need to worry..we’ve have grown to accept that we can only win the division and thats what will happen..then play the real teams in the national league and get killed..to be honest with you i’m ashamed to admit that i’m from atlanta..another thing MICHEAL VICK..LOL!!!!…mark my word he will go down as the biggest bust ever in sports.
By JOHN B.
June 6, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
Betimit needs to play more as well, in Left or at first. The offense needs him.
By Bw
June 6, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
Why not look at Zito rather than Willis? I think Zito is a free agent at the end of the year, would he get that much more than Willis?
At least he wears his hat straight there is something to be said for knowing how to put on a hat.
By TennesseePaul
June 6, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this
Bob, just saw your post. Sorry it wasn’t sooner. All this negativity is making me down. I’m bummed enough as it is on a five game losing streak. I live and die with the Braves, but the dying part is just such a drag. I’m not really sure what you’re talking about or from where the 1/8 probability stems.
By Hal
June 6, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this
Blaster …not only smiling but at times laughing i started to notice it a few weeks ago on one occasion last week they showed a shot of the dugout after pete orr had been thrown out on a steal attempt he and frenchy and one other player(i think Giles) were laughing out loud ! and every time they pan to someone who has just made an error or struck out lately i notice a smirk that says a lot …who cares i still get my money …. i think the young players on this team have eather been badly mislead about what it takes to suceed in the majors or maybe there just fallowing what they see in our core of older players .A player like that Byrnes kid in arizona could be what this team needs ! Some desire and competitive juice .Also does anyone rember the last time one of our pitchers knocked a guy down??looks to me like the oppositions batters are awfully comfortable hitting against our pitchers.Come to think of it hitting agaist some of our pitchers i would be comfortable lol .Probably closer to the real truth is this is just not a very good baseball team and we have been spoiled rotten over the last 14 years.
By Antonio McNugget
June 6, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this
I love how this Ron Roberts fella keeps referring to t-ball as “our level”. Nice keep em coming.
Trivia Question for ya Ron:
How many K’s would Larouche have if he got to put it on a T???
By greg
June 6, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this
listen to yourselves..we should be a huge powerhouse like the yankees..john happy and content sheurholtz will keep it that way..we are fun and family type team..that is so sweet..i’m a huge uga fan and like the braves..i’m just sick of being right there but cant win the big one..my bulldogs are getting there and they dont play in atlanta..thank god.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this
So signing on with multiple names (same IP address, I’m betting) and cracking jokes is your way of discussing baseball, KneeJerk/Antonio/LittleLarry? It’s amazing how 7th graders’ behavior can seep into the psyche of their school instructors.
Trust me when I tell ya, the drivel doesn’t make me look foolish…
Hey Sammy, I’m not saying LaRoche is untouchable or unapproachable when it comes to making a change; but he’s righted the ship, so why ship him off? My point is, there are bigger concerns with this team, in my mind… bullpen, left field/leadoff come to mind.
There’s just been this childish “name-calling” moniker-mimicking movement against LaRoche for so long that it’s made some folks short-sighted.
It all goes back to those die-hard “he blew the NLDS with his base-running” types who think his stomach virus was “made up” to cover for him. They don’t remember the grand slam he’d hit earlier in the game, appaerntly. They don’t remember how quickly we shipped off Robert Fick when his play didn’t meet with the franchise’s level of acceptance, either.
LaRoche isn’t playing like Derrick Lee or Albert Pujols, but then most MLB teams would love to have one of those two guys (I would, too). I’m just saying he’s doin’ fine since the end of April - so it makes no sense to me to blow him out so he could continue that pace for somebody else if we can’t replace him with anything better.
By Steve
June 6, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
While I do not care much about LaRoche/Jordan at first, Betemit’s career numbers are in the same ballpark, so why make the big deal about it. Not to mention he would be playing out of position. To me, that discussion is a wash and not worth worrying about even though I would love to see Betemit in lineup more often.
As for the outfield. Langerhans plays decent D, but I could see spelling him a few more games and getting Diaz in the lineup eveyr now and then, or even Betemit.
As for Francouer .. you are NUTS! Even slumping his per game totals since coming to the majors are better than just about any Right Fielder in the game. If you put Diaz in RF are defense drops SIGNIFICANTLY.
Would you bench Andruw in CF when he hits his typical month long slump where he hits sub .200 every year?? Certainly not, because he defense makes up for it. Well, Francouer is every bit as good in RF, with a better arm offsetting a slight disadvantage in range. If you put Diaz, Betemit, or Jordan out there in RF, you have very little range and no arm strength to speak.
Opposing teams would LOVE to see the Braves put Francouer on the bench in favor of one of those three. No doubt about it.
By KneeJerk
June 6, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this
Ron, If you can show that I now or ever have signed on as someone else, I’ll annoint you the Tony LaRussa of t-ball. I disagree with what you do, but I don’t sign on as anyone else to prove a point. I don’t mind telling you what I think.
By KneeJerk
June 6, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
Ron, the drivel doesn’t make you look foolish, but sacrificing at bats of 6 year olds does.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
I sign on w/my real name, sign in my real e-mail address every single time. Period.
Mock my coaching methods all ya want, man… my kids, parents, league never question them. I’ll take their opinions over that of a nameless ‘nicknamed’ blogger any day.
Bottom line, hit placement isn’t an automatic sacrifice in t-ball, dude… get that through your stubbron shell. And learning what “teamwork” is is all part of growing up and playing the game. You don’t just throw ‘em out there with gloves on their hands and tell ‘em “have fun!” You teach ‘em the game, they improve, they improve as a team, and they have fun doing that.
I’m sorry the philosophy eludes you. I’d expect more from a junior high school coach, personally, but that’s just me.
By Dave
June 6, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this
Won’t ya’ come home Ted Turner, won’t ya’ come home?!? T.T. stands mighty tall when compared to the idiot whimp suits that are running (ruining) Times Warner and the assorted TV corporate configurations. T.T. took the Braves from “Loserville”. Spent $. Promoted. Created the “Superstation” for cryin’ out loud (for which I am most appreciative, being that I’m an uprooted Atlantian/Braves fan, living in New England). Thanks to T.T. for the years preceding ‘91. Even during the “ostrich race” years, one could not help but anticipate that lightning was about to strike. Thanks to T.T. the lightning struck in ‘91 and the many championship seasons that followed. Now the new suits are letting the lightning out of the jar. Maybe we should take the pennies out of our jars at home, send them to the whimpy suits so that they can buy some lightning rods. Could ya’ spend a buck to help the rotation and bullpen that are a shadow of the force behind many of those champion seasons? I will end my rant with the reminder that the Mets are in first place … The Mets, with the whinyest talk-radio fans in the world.
By BOB C
June 6, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
Again the insightful remarks of the Apostle of the Obvious - the Braves need a hard throwing reliever who can get people out. How would 10 for 10 in save opportunities sound? Had him folks - his name was Kyle Farnsworth - and we let him get away.
By Antonio McNugget
June 6, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
Sorry Ron. Turns out more than one person can actually think you sound foolish. Come to grips with it.
You never answered my question. Laroche with a ball on a tee for every atbat this season, how many K’s???? Come on play along having him put a ball on a t every at bat is just as logical as “throwing out his April at bats”
By Ralph
June 6, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
Steve,
Betemit’s “Career numbers”?
What career? He rides the pine while Bobby picks another booger !
Don’t base his potential on what few chances he’s had top start !!
By Matt
June 6, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this
Why would the Marlins want to trade a pitcher who still has the potential to win 20+ games a season every year for a prospect catcher who is batting below the Mendoza line, especially to their rivals in the east where they would have to see him at least four times a year? Secondly, why is everyone jumping off the Braves bandwagon so soon again? Why aren’t there any good fans left in Atlanta?
By hk
June 6, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
Bob, 10-Paul, MBATL,
… on the Braves season records vs playoffs:
(1) … most agree that Bobby gets more out of his players over 162 games than anybody
(2) … if (1) is true, that means, by definition, year in and year out, his teams have less talent than the other teams in the playoffs
(3) … emotions are a much larger factor during the playoffs than during the regular season grind … hype may work in a 12 game football season, but not baseball for 162 games …
(4) … Bobby recognizes (3), therefore hype is not his style …
(5) … kind of hard to get hyped up when you’ve been there 15 times in a row, same with the Braves fans …
(6) … so, less talent than the opposition plus less hype equals large playoff disadvantage, every year ..
… on LeRoach, he looks pretty good on the ‘MVP’ scale (projected year end R + HR + RBI):
Proj Yr End….Runs….Homers…RBI’s…MVP Andruw………101……39……148…..288 Francoeur…….78……31……115…..223 LaRoche………81……25…….92…..198 Chipper………98……14…….81…..193 Renteria……..95……17…….67…..179 Giles………..95…….8…….53…..156 McCann……….53……14…….59…..126 Langerhans……53……11…….45…..109 Betemit………39……14…….42……95
(curves)
By David Letterman
June 6, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
TOP TEN RREASONS THE STREAK ENDS IN 2006
and the number one reason the Braves will not repeat as Divisional Champions: Liberty Media will purchase the Braves and destroy whatever value the franchise ever had.
By BO
June 6, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this
DOB, I agree 100% Keep up the reports and whats really going on in clubhouse. RON I like your coaching philosophy, keep it up!
By Sammy Kershaw
June 6, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
Hey Hk
You cant project a 4 hit 25 strikeout month. But ask Ron Roberts he may let you throw it out.
By MClark
June 6, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts, you wrote I’ve coached at this and the live-arm level for nine years, myself, in three different states, and you’re the first person - period - to have a problem with moving runners over at our level.
Ron, please allow me to be the second person to have a problem with your coaching style. I have coached baseball on nearly every level and I’ll state outright that using such “strategies” at the T-ball level is ludicrous and reflects poorly on the coach.
It is your kind of mentality that ruins baseball for so many young people. A child that age cannot comprehend abstract concepts such as the ones you are attempting to “teach” and you are doing him/her no good pushing this idea on them. T-ball is about an opportunity to learn the games basics…i.e. hitting, catching and throwing. Leave the esoteric elements of the game alone until the players are able to understand not only what you asking them to do, but why.
T-ball is an introduction to the greatest sport in the world. It is not about winning, it is not about the coach, it is, however, about instilling the love of the game in the little ones. Let the players play: throw, catch, and hit. If you want to “strategize” then move up and coach at the middle school and high school level where strategies like this are necessary and essential to the game.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
Antonio, your comparison makes no sense, therefore there’s no sense in replying to it.
I suggest you not look at his April stats when evaluating what he brings to the team now, dude. If that needs to be explained to you, then I figure there’s plenty that needs to be slowed down for you to understand, as well.
By Jeff
June 6, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this
Let’s look at the problems position by position. 1st base—-LaRoche—no playoff team can have a first baseman who bats .240 and must be platooned with Brian Jordan who really should be coaching and not playing. 2nd base—-Giles—-adequate fielderbut no leadoff hitter—-ideally should be hitting 7th or 8th in the lineup S.S.—-Rentaria—-adequate fielder, but does not like to hit leadoff, where he is more needed. 3rd base—-Chipper—-has lost most of his HR power as well as his quickness at third. No longer should be considered an all-star. He is best at working out bases on balls. Left—-Langerhans—-better fielder than hitter. Lacks needed power for his position Center—-A.Jones—-he is what he is. Great fielder and sporadic hitter. He strikes out too often and has too many prolonged slumpstorelay onhim to carry the team like he did last year. Right—-Franquer—-Too undisciplined a hitter . Can afford to start him due to his fielding iftherewere better hitters at left and first. But as it is he just contributes to the hitting problems. Catcher—-McCann—-shows promise, but we should never have given away Estrada for at least another year. Starting pitching—-Hudson and Smoltz have been only slightly better than adequate, Ramirez has shown promise, but he did so in the past and fell apart, Sosa is too unreliable as is Thompson. Relievers—-Only Ray has shown consistency. The rest of the staff is either too old or too young. And none of them can strike out many hitters. this is a recipe for disaster. The only pitcher that shows any promise is Chuck Jones and he has not been given a shot to pitch in the starting rotation, as if the starting rotation is so hard to crack. Summation—-this team as currently constituted is more likely to finish the season in 4th place than win the east.
By ILL-logical
June 6, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
The ansewr to all of the Braves problems is $. Not the lack thereof per se but the way it has been spent for the last few years.Ex.:starting pitching;unless you hit 40 home runs the top salary went to starting pitching.and even then if were not Chipper Jones you had to play for less than market value,see Jones,Andruw.
Now that,to quote the immortal Michael Ray Richardson,”the ship be sinking”,everyone is playing for themselves because they know that the budget under the new corporate masters will be tighter than fish *.Why do you think JS wrote a tell all book ? Why did Leo really leave? Why is Jeff Francouer the “new” Chipper? The answer is that the money tree is no loner full of low hanging fruit and everyone -the entire organization-is in an every person for themselves mode.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this
MClark,
I volunteer (and pay the sponsorship fee, as well, by the way, to keep a business name from being splashed across our uniforms) every year to coach these kids. They’re not even my kids… none of ‘em. I do it because countless volunteers did the same for me growing up, and because I love the game and enjoy time with the little fellas (and Brooke, too…).
If you want to think that (your words)…
(my) kind of mentality that ruins baseball for so many young people…
…then so be it. We’ll agree to disagree. Truth be told, I’m one of those coaches who calms the parents & families in the stands down when they get a little boisterous.
To say… a child that age cannot comprehend abstract concepts such as the ones you are attempting to “teach” and you are doing him/her no good pushing this idea on them… is a bit misleading, MClark. I’ve outlined one concept… and it’s not all that “abstract.”
Just so you know, if we were in a league where no scores were kept (I read where many leagues do this now), I’d have no problem with that, either. But I’d still coach the same way… to teach kids basic fundamentals of the game and show them what “teamwork” is all about. There’s no “poor taste” in using and teaching strategy at that level, either, my friend. I’ll disagree with you, there.
For one, our league has what we call “wee-ball,” for the 3-4 (and 5 year-olds, too, if their parents think they need to develop better, first), where the kids put on their little gloves, uniforms, hats, bats, etc., and play, and hit the ball, and run and throw, etc., … no score’s kept, no standings, etc. They just learn the very basics in throwing, catching, hitting and running… then they come to t-ball, where we advance their learning process.
Secondly, I remember, myself, as a kid growing up, learning a ton of stuff like advancing runners, hitting to weaker sides of defenses, etc., in t-ball and live-arm, etc. and I still found nothing wrong with that.
And you seem to think we don’t let them hit; frankly, “sacrifices” like bunting are forbidden in t-ball, and while I’m not telling a child that they’re hitting a certain direction in order to “give themselves up” to advance a runner - I do point out that however upset they may be at not reaching base, they did the team good by advancing the runners.
And I’m not alone in this… every coach of every team in our league and neighboring leagues coaches this way. That’s not an “everybody else is doing it” excuse for me, either… it’s sound coaching, to me, and I’ve never questioned or second-guessed it.
By MClark
June 6, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
I think ILL-logical has it pegged. Liberty Media is going to use the Braves as a tax write-off for the rest of their company with the blessings of MLB. That’s why it would be nice to win one more division and pull off a Series Title because things are about to change and I don’t mean for the better.
Ahh the economics of modern baseball. I’m just glad my grandfather’s not here to see what the sport has become.
By MClark
June 6, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
Unlike others here I have no desire to deride you and to that end my comments about “ruining the game” are perhaps too strong. I do feel, however that, no matter how well it is explained, such a concept is abstract. Due to nothing more than their lack of development, abstract concepts simply cannot be explained well enough to be understood at 6 years old.
I shouldn’t question your motives and I do applaud your commitment. I just don’t personally believe that idea has a place in t-ball. Let them swing the bat, as hard as they can, as often as they can. The strategies will come when the time is right.
By Tomahawkin
June 6, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
I love Langerhans Defense but If he doesn’t learn to go to left field he will remain the hitter he is now…
So therefore a trade involving Him, Reeksma and a prospect to the Ray for Crawford is a great idea, John S. needs to pull off a trade soon because if he waits til July 31st or later it might be too late with this inconsistant team…
BTW I was hoping it wasn’t a fluke the we beat the Cubs and Marlins like we did, but apparently I was wrong seeeing that we can’t Stomp with The Big Dawgs (Arizona and LA)
By jokurone
June 6, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this
it’s pretty obvious that Schurholz is embarrassed by the fact that they made no move whatsoever to fix the closer spot in the off season evidenced by the fact we have heard nothing from the guy addressing the situation is blantantly out of control now. He needs to make a move NOW!! or face the prospect of losing the fan base as well as the players’confidence in the upper management.
By Tomahawkin
June 6, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this
Joku He has already lost a lot of fan base in the “A” Just look at the playoff attendance, but Ur right he need to made a trade now, and Cut Reeksma, he may singlehandedly cost us #15. If we wait to make a trade it might be too little too late…
By MClark
June 6, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
I wasn’t able to pay much attention to offseason moves so this is an honest question.
Was there much talent in the closer pool available that would have fit into the money avilable to JS?
By Antonio McNugget
June 6, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
Ron, There was no comparison made, just 2 statements both of which are pure fantasy.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Antonio,
When you evaluate what a player is currently bringing to your team, then, what’s the point in evaluating April when May and June are, well, for one thing, chronologically closer to the present?
If you don’t think MLB G.M.s take into consideration how a player is currently playing, I think you’d be mistaken.
By greg
June 6, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
hA TOMAHAWKIN..you live in or may not live in atlanta..i’ve been removed for 4 years..atlanta is the worst sports town in the united states..the poor playoff attendence is due to the fans in atlanta not going cause its not the world series..we act like we have won so many championships..like i said before UGA is the only thing going on in the state of georgia.sorry just the truth.
By brian
June 6, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
Tomahawkin-
not even the lowly Rays would trade Crawford for Langerhans (a little hitting OF), Reitsma (doesn’t need elaboration), and a prospect - even if it was Salty
Would they trade Crawford straight up for a top prospect - Salty, Davies, or James, and would we do it versus getting Willis?
I would go for Crawford
By TennesseePaul
June 6, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
MClark: The answer to that is no. Closers and releivers in general had a record offseason. BJ Ryan signed one of the largest contracts for a reliever. He had one year of experience as a closer and got a 5 year 50 million (I think) deal. Wagner’s contract was massive as well. Farnsworthless, (the same guy that couldn’t hold a 5 run lead in the post season), signed for more than the Braves offered to be a set up man. I’ve noticed he’s been in the middle of a lot of wasted opportunities in NY. Gordon got a large contract despite a sketchy track record as a reliever. That big for the Marlins last year signed a large deal with the Tigers and promptly injured himself. Hoffman correctly returned to his career team for a tidy little sum. And then the Cubs signed middle relievers to massive contracts. The market was ridiculous. Our best hope is our farm system and releasing Reitsma. Reitsma needs to go. There is no cause for a guy this terrible to be on a championship team.
Cox: I’m sure Reitsma is a stand up guy. But if you really liked him, you would let him go. For the sake of his kids, his soul and his career. Every time you put him in, it causes more harm than good.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
MClark, that’s cool, man. I appreciate your tone, at the very least.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
Brian,
I’d go with Crawford over Willis, too.
Get ‘em both (not like TW would allow it) and we’d INSTANTLY be in the thick of things, all the way to being a World Series title contender, I think.
By brian
June 6, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
Thanks for clarifying DOB -
I just think it would be insane to trade Salty plus Davies/James for anyone, though I agree if we could get Willis plus relief help without mortgaging our future we would be in great shape.
Smoltz, Hudson, Willis, Ramirez, James, with Davies in the wings when healthy. That is a good rotation.
No way do we get both Crawford and Willis though. We would be trading away the farm
By Chop Chop
June 6, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
I’m voting for you as the Braves’ new hitting coach. Maybe they can take what you teach in BP (off a tee, of course) with them into the batter’s box against live pitching. I look forward to the results.
You defended LaRoche. That’s fine. He’s on a pace to have decent power numbers at first. Sure, he’s going to strike out a lot and probably not hit for a really high average, but the power’s there. Since he’s in a platoon, he’d never get the chance to hit 35 homers and drive in 110 runs because he doesn’t have overwhelming power. Once again, as I said, that’s fine. However, when his defense is pointed to as a strength, that is a problem. The guy makes too many mental mistakes over at first. It is true that he was aggressive on the chopper hit by Nick Johnson last night. There was no laziness in charging the ball, but he wasn’t even looking the ball into his glove. He was making an assumption on where the ball was going to hit the dirt and had his head turned toward the first-base bag (which I can only assume he would’ve stepped on with all the hustle he could muster) as his side-saddle attempt at the ball came up with nothing but air. He got the ball rolling (into right field, I suppose) on the inning that cost the Braves last night’s game. His at-bat in the ninth wasn’t terrible, but his failure to drive in a run just adds to the dislike of him by a lot of fans. As badly as he wanted to come through and win the game, the fans wanted it more. The more often a player disappoints the fans, the more heat he is going to take from them. Ron, you personally may not like it, but that is how fans are. Maybe there’s some fantasyland (think Bobby Cox-ville at Six Flags or something) where fans completely ignore the mistakes, foibles and flaws of their teams’ players, but, goshdarnit, Braves fans aren’t in that fantasyland anymore.
By brian
June 6, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
With the Braves taking Cody Johnson with their 1st pick - a lefty hitting OF/1B - could this mean that Salty is on the block? Trust me, I am not complaining the Braves took a potential first baseman with the first pick
By Antonio McNugget
June 6, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
Ron How bout we reevalute later. We will see if he is at .270 Ill have to give it to you. I project we will be trying to throw out another month or 2 though.
By jokurone
June 6, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
what’s with all the strike outs?? what is TP telling these guys? We need some drag bunts not swinging for the fences everytime up.. this is basic baseball we need to be playing.. why do the Braves consistently play down to the level of competition? I think we need to bring in a shrink for the whole damn team!!
By Chop Chop
June 6, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
One thing I want to add about LaRoche’s side-saddle attempt last night: I know that a guy doesn’t always look the ball into his glove. If a laser shot is hit right at them, players don’t have the time to look the ball into their gloves. They just react. However, LaRoche had enough time on that chopper to make sure that he made the play. More than anyone on that team, LaRoche should understand what problems that the lack of attention to detail can cause a player.
By jokurone
June 6, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
remember Laroachey has ADD and is looking in the stands when he should be wathcing the batter!!
By daniel
June 6, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
I think Adam LaRoche should be trade bec he cant hit very well and most time strikeout! so i suggest that to put chipper jones to first base and get trade for miguel cabrera from fla marlins! he can play third base! so we can have a good infield and outfield! only problem is bullpen is lousy one maybe trade retista and some other player to trade for willis! so we can five good starter pitcher smoltez hudson willis ramiez and thompson and send sosa to bullpen if thompson lousy pitcher then put kyle davis back and send thompson to bullpen! so what u guys thinks!
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
I hear what you’re saying, Chop Chop.
Trust me, I get frustrated, as well… and thankfully, there are pillows within my reach to throw or it’d be a blunt object at the TV screen everytime he or Chipper (or any of ‘em, really) don’t come through in a clutch situation.
But my point is, he’s not the biggest problem this team has… finding somebody to replace him that would be an upgrade at the position would be next-to-impossible, too, given that there aren’t many 1B out there that are better than he is and would be available.
The bullpen and left field are spots where we need the most help and where we have options to upgrade through a trade. If we do that, we can live with what LaRoche brings to the table. His last 32 games, he’s hitting .284, with 5 HRs and 19 RBI. Even in his slow April start, he hit 4 HRs and 12 RBI. He’s on pace to hit, what around 26 HR and drive in around 60 or so RBI?
And you’re right about his defense.. it is his strength, it just hasn’t been of late. More often than not, the guy’s glove is fantastic over there, though.
For me, though, it’s “fix the bullpen and let’s get a leadoff guy who hits for average and can run.” Add that to our current lineup, and we’re stacked, offensively, and our starters’ good starts aren’t blown so much.
By braves fan
June 6, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
Here’s what I’ll say about Adam LaRoche. He’s had two errors that have cost the Braves 4 and 5 runs each. In each of those games he didn’t drive in any runs. So his lack of focus cost the Braves 9 runs, without driving any in. I’m sorry but he’s a bad inning waiting to happen. I bet Wilson Betemit wouldn’t let a baserunner outrun him to the base if he was only 5 five from it. I bet Betemit wouldn’t try to field a ball one handed while moving toward the base when he has time to get in front of it and still get the runner.
By Antonio McNugget
June 6, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
Enough with the last 32 games for god sake. Whats the teams record over this span? Body of work.
By Chop Chop
June 6, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
Ron,
My point was that LaRoche’s strength (his defense) suffers because of his mental lapses. How can it be a strength if he can’t be counted on to be paying attention? There is nothing a manager or a coach can do (short of constantly benching him/berating him/belittling him in the media every time he doesn’t do so/forcing him to swallow medication) to get a guy to pay attention out on the field. Oddly enough, LaRoche does seem to have more of a gameplan at the plate than, say, Francoeur. Francoeur hits like he has ADD. LaRoche, on occasion, fields like it. One kills rallies at the plate and the other ignites them in the field. I’ve never seen Braves players that are as inconsistent as Francoeur and LaRoche during Bobby’s current fifteen year run as Braves manager.
By JOHN B.
June 6, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
I have to agree with you. I think teaching the fundamentals of baseball at a young age is very valuable. Sure, the kids might not realize it now, but when they get into older leagues, it will “click”. They will realize why you advance a runner, or hit the cutoff man to play team baseball. Some of the Braves players can’t even execute these simple fundamentals.
I know it’s just a bad streak the Braves are in. And they will likely snap out of it. But the reason they are 28-30 is because they have not played fundamental baseball. Jones and Francoeur have been missing the cut off men. Giles has been throwing the ball all over if he fields the ball. LaRoche non-hustling approach then trying to run to 1st base before he fields the ball. Renteria getting thrown out at third on a ball hit in front of him. Chipper failing to move the runner over. Stuff like that causes a team to lose games. And it has been every player. Not just those few examples.
I know everybody makes errors because they are all human, but it should not happen every game. If Cox and TP would bench guys once in a while, I think it would clear their heads.
By Chop Chop
June 6, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
Granted, both of those players are young, but LaRoche is 26 and is in his third year in the bigs. Francoeur, by all rights, shouldn’t even be in the big leagues because of his lack of plate discipline. It is quite funny that he plays everyday when other inconsistent hitters (such as Langerhans and LaRoche, who are both lefties and will never have a snowball’s chance in Hell to face left-handed pitchers on a regular basis) don’t. Francoeur is far more inconsistent than either of them, except for the rare cases he manages to run into a hanging breaking ball or a fastball down the middle.
By daniel
June 6, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
only way is to remove adam LaRoche and put chipper jones to first base and put wilson betemit in third base! Honestly i never like adam LaRoche he is very lazy! remmy other game he cost braves hurt few time! once he make mistake he cost our game! adam play not like last yrs! he was good play last yrs but this yrs he is choke and make too many mistake etc!
By try something different
June 6, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
the definition of insanity is to repeatedly try the same thing and expect different results. You have 5 starters. You only need 4. You have an awful bullpen. Put one of your starters (either Thompson or Sosa) in your bullpen. Just try it. If it doesn’t work, do something else.
By try something different
June 6, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
the definition of insanity is to repeatedly try the same thing and expect different results. You have 5 starters. You only need 4. You have an awful bullpen. Put one of your starters (either Thompson or Sosa) in your bullpen. Just try it. If it doesn’t work, do something else.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
First, Chipper won’t move to first. Secondly, Wilson Betemit at first would be a downgrade in defense, ADD or not, and we can only surmise he’d hit as well as a full-time position player as he has in spot-starts and off the bench. It’s a guess, at best.
McNugget, the Braves’ record in those 32 games is 18-14. Stretch that out over an aggregate 160-games and that’s 90-70. There’s your body of work.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
Here’s more body of work… with RISP (runners in scoring position), LaRoche is actually hitting .333 including the month of April.
By SR
June 6, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
Maybe someone else has commented on this and I have missed it but one of the things that really jumps out at me is the extraordinary lack of depth on this team, most notably in the bullpen. In my mind, the pen is the weakest link in this team’s chain, followed closely by the lack of production from 4 key positions, 1B, 2B, RF and LF.
Much has been made (rightfully so in my view) of the problems with ownership as it relates to low payroll and the ability of the GM to acquire talent as a result. One need look no further than the bullpen for a tangible example of that.
Now all of us can probably recall the “reclamation projects” over the years of whose talents we were the beneficiaries,e.g., John Burkett, Jaret Wright etc. but also, remember how in those days, there was only one such project at a time?? Now look at what we have become- the junkyard of MLB, the Oakland Raiders of the NL, from Chad Paronto, to Ken Ray, (maybe they will be the exceptions, I hope) to this new guy Yates, to Villareal to Cormier yada, yada, yada. Shockingly bad pitchers by and large whose common attributes are a) they come cheap and b) they were discarded by other teams. To me, this is real evidence of how far this team has plummeted, from the days when we either had a reasonably solid pen or could reach into the minors for a quality replacement to this sad sack bunch.
Now some may contend that this is baseball as we know it today, with free agency and payroll restrictions etc. and that point is well taken but even so, other teams do not seem to have the scope of the problem with the pen that the Braves do this year and in addition, I cannot think of anyone that has dug so deeply to pick up other’s scraps as has this team.
By Bob, journalist
June 6, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this
10 Paul, thanks for the reply.
My post was referring to your comments: “In a crapshoot, you’d expect to go one for eight in the long term. Cox’s record is barely half that good … Half as good as random chance - what a glowing resume item.”
My comments were just a general indirect response to all the “negative” posts on the blog … though we’d like better results, 1 World Series victory in 14 trips to the Post Season is the most likely result when the teams are evenly matched.
It’s much ado … but, this may clarify my comments:
In a 8 team, “single elimination” tournament where the teams are evenly matched, you would, as you said, expect a given team to win all 3 series 1/8 of the time. That is, a team would lose the NLDS 1/2 of the time … play and lose the NLCS 1/4 of the time … play and win the World Series 1/8 of the time.
In other words, you would expect to fail to win it all … 7/8 of the time … or expect to fail to win the World Series in 14 straight trips to the Post Season … 15.42% of the time. That’s 7/8 raised to the 14th power.
You would expect to win it all in one particular year and lose the rest … about 2.20% of the time. However, the year in which you win could be any of 14 different years, so the probability of winning exactly once would be 30.84%.
If my simple math is correct, the probability of winning exactly 2 World Series in 14 Post Season visits would be 28.64% … and more than 2 would be 25.11%.
That is to say again, the most likely outcome would be 1 World Series win in 14 trips to the Post Season … which is what we have. While I too wish we had done better … it’s far better to have loved and lost …”
I’m with you … losing is tough but it’s the negativity that really gets you down! As a youngster watching Cracker games … when we were losing a game, I would mentally picture how we could come from far behind and win the game … all the way up to the last out! Of course, I do recall that with some of our teams, I did sometimes worry when we were ahead in a close game.
When we lost, I was down … especially we I thought we should have won … but it usually lasted only until the next game. Insensitive negativity is different … it undermines everything … hurts even when you win, and stays with you a long, long time!
I can understand and share your frustration but can’t believe that you really meant it when you said “Any fan who wants Cox as his team’s manager might as well wear a shirt that says I like losing”
In the last 15 years, with Bobby Cox managing … how many times have the fans endured a losing season? Truth is truth.
Mama would wash Bobby’s mouth out with soap twice a day whether he needed it or not … and she didn’t like the way he handled his pitchers, but she always gave him his due.
I share Mama’s view but I have one other uninformed beef with his spproach … I basically agree with the “even keel” idea but it seems to quickly turn players with boyish entheusium and strong emotion into business men.
When you see Bloggers being so negative, just remember that Blogs were invented by Psychology Professors so that their students could study childish behavior in adults.
By Retard
June 6, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this
uugghhhhhhhhh,,,,,,,i think the brives need to win more,,,,,huh,,huh,,,huh,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
By Robert
June 7, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
In the past 15 years, how many times have Cox’s teams met or exceeded expectations?
1991, 1995, and maybe the past two seasons, and that’s more because other teams imploded
4 out of 15 - the other 11 times they did not perform as well as they were expected to
The best manager is not the guy who can win 2130 games with a hall of fame starter pitching 3 out of every 5 nights.
If you underachieve you have lost. In that sense, most of the past 15 seasons have been losers
It is not necessarily remarkable in any way to win x number in a row. It’s all about context. And context indicts Bobby Cox.
Because I cant think of an uninstitutionalized human being who wouldnt have won about 11 of those division titles in a row, and offhand I cant think of more than three people who wouldnt have won at least 2 World Series titles in that span
(Cox, Bobby Valentine, and Mike Hargrove, in case you’re wondering)
I realized the truth in ‘99 - when the matchup of the century turned into a humiliation by the Yankees. The thing is, it was OBVIOUS. From the moment the two teams stepped onto the field, the Yankees had that look in their eye - in their opinion, the Braves didnt belong on the same field (they were right)
The Yankees were champions. Cox’s chumps were happy to be there and playing for him
No Braves team will EVER win another World Series so long as Bobby Cox is their manager
By Robert
June 7, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
By the way - you’d expect 2 titles in 16 trips
So to claim that 1 in 14 is expected - ok, you’re at the outside edge of bad luck
But wait - your premise was that the 8 teams were evenly matched
How about 6 of those times you had far and away the best team?
Oh yeah, forgot about that minor detail huh. It’s incredible what lengths we will go to to justify acceptance or to rationalize our disappointments.
It’s ok that we got humiliated in the playoffs again, or it’s ok that Cox blew it again, because ……. …….. …….
Look, in general, I think managers are overrated, in baseball and in all other sports as well. In truth, if they dont have negative impact on a team, you’re above average. Cox, however, for all his well chronicled babysitting skills, is absolutely as poor a field general as has ever taken the field in any sport
By Ben
June 7, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
I would like to see the Braves make a trade for Alfonso Soriano. This would give the Braves a legitimate leadoff man with great speed. Although it would have to be a three team deal and you would have to give up Giles and multiple top prospects. Of course it goes without saying the ATL needs some bullpen help as well. Ken Ray is a nice story but he has been in the big leagues for 7 years…there is no telling how long he can hold up.
By Ben
June 7, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
I would like to see the Braves make a trade for Alfonso Soriano. This would give the Braves a legitimate leadoff man with great speed. Although it would have to be a three team deal and you would have to give up Giles and multiple top prospects. Of course it goes without saying the ATL needs some bullpen help as well. Ken Ray is a nice story but he hasn’t been in the big leagues for 7 years…there is no telling how long he can hold up.
By Ben
June 7, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this
I would like to see the Braves make a trade for Alfonso Soriano. This would give the Braves a legitimate leadoff man with great speed. Although it would have to be a three team deal and you would have to give up Giles and multiple top prospects. Of course it goes without saying the ATL needs some bullpen help as well. Ken Ray is a nice story but he hasn’t been in the big leagues for 7 years…there is no telling how long he can hold up.
By ronald
June 8, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
Trading Salty for Willis would be great if Florida would go for it. Check Salty’s stats, they’re not that good. We really don’t need him with McCann and Pena. As soon as McCann gets activated we need to get rid of Pratt. My grand mother can hit better than him and she’s dead.
Why just play Betemit once a week for Chipper. Chipper is winding down his career the way Dale Murphy did. As much as we might not want to admit it he obviously does not have the power he once had. As he himself said, he’s not being paid all those bucks to hit 150 singles a year.
Francour is definately struggling. He must learn patience at the plate as everyone is observing. He is to easy to get out these days. Langerhans may have reached his peek last year. LaRoche, who knows what you are ever going to get with him. This raises another point. What is Terry Pendleton doing to earn his pay?
Someone said “we did win the world series with Raphael Belliard at shortstop.” Someone seems to forget that he was an outstanding shortstop and was a huge factor in turning around the Braves.
Finally, bring back Leo. Whatever it takes, just do it. Roger McDowell is never going to salvage anyone’s career. I have absolutely no confidence in him as a pitching coach. GET RID OF HIM AND DO IT YESTERDAY.
By Richard Weiss
June 8, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this
There is a tremendous need for a power hitter and a power pitcher plus a closer. Of course, a good hitting first baseman also would help. This costs money. I have seen absolutely no inclination on management’s part to spend money to field a contender. I am tired of seeing the Braves consistently outclassed by bottom dwellers. The best thrill I have gotten this year is an occasional 9th inning miracle to salvage a long sought after win. What about a consistently good team - like the Mets? Of course, they spent money to be this good.
By ronald
June 8, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
The best thrill I got this year was hearing that the braves might be sold. Oh God, when will it ever happen?
By New York Joe
June 12, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
It’s over Dude, LET”S GO METS !!!!!
NY Mets 39 23 .629 —
Philadelphia 33 30 .524 6.5
Atlanta 30 34 .469 10.0