AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > May > 31 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USRoyals GM hire a hit
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Few of you would recognize Dayton Moore if you bumped into him at Turner Field. But you’ll be seeing his face a lot soon, when he’s introduced as the new GM of the K.C. Royals.
We’ve had it confirmed to the paper that Dayton, the 39-year-old Braves asst. GM and rising star in exec circles, will be taking his talents to the downtrodden Royals, though as of this moment it’s unclear if they’re going to make the announcement before or after next week’s draft.
Anyway, it’s a big loss to the Braves. By that I mean, he’s a really sharp, really personable and extremely talented guy who’s played a huge role in maintaining one of the best, if not THE best, minor league/player development systems in baseball. And as we know, the continued production of major league-ready players is what’s enabled the Braves to keep their division-title streak alive despite budget cuts in recent years that have prevented them from making the kind of free-agent moves the Braves used to make when they spent almost as much as the Yankees (believe it or not, that wasn’t long ago, though it might seem it was).
But while it’s a big loss for the Braves, it also shouldn’t be overstated. By that, I mean folks shouldn’t assume the Braves are left in a lurch now to find a replacement for John Schuerholz, assuming he will eventually step down from the job (he’s here through at least 2007, and I’d guess 2-3 years beyond that, if I had to guess now). While Dayton was obviously at the top of the list of likely heirs to the Braves GM throne, he wasn’t alone on the list. Too many around baseball seem to have forgotten that Scheurholz’s right-hand man in major league operations has been Frank Wren, not Moore.
Frank is the guy who handles arbitration cases, most contract negotiations, and many other duties for John, who has wisely delegated duties in the increasingly complex and difficult position he’s in. Not letting his admittedly substantial ego stand in the way of making such decisions is one reason Schuerholz has survived and thrived for so long, while other GMs have burned out or faded away.
John’s a really smart man, smart enough to know that having really smart younger and loyal men helping him in crucial elements of the operation is the way to go. And he’s done that.
Now, I’d assume Frank moves back to the top of the list of likely replacements. He’s worked under Dave Dombrowski and Schuerholz for most of two decades in Montreal, Florida and Atlanta, and believes in most of the same principles of running a team that John does, included the most important one: The minor league system and scouting/player development are the lifeblood of the franchise, nothing less.
Though Frank’s short tenure as Baltimore GM didn’t go well, that means absolutely nothing in terms of evaluation him in that role, simply because Peter Angelos and his meddling sons made it impossible, according to everyone I’ve talked to familiar with the situation, for Wren to succeed. His hands were tied, decisions made for him, etc. Bad, bad situation.
Back to Dayton leaving: I understand why he’d take the Royals job, on the one hand. K.C.’s a nice place to raise a family, the franchise was solid years ago - albeit many years - and the town will support baseball if given a decent product. The situation reminds me of Detroit in that regard. The Royals are marrying up in this one, getting the guy who turned down the Red Sox last winter.
But there were factors involved in that decision that most don’t realize, and there was the specter of The Kid (Theo Eptstein) possibly returning, which is just what ended up happening. I know John Henry from his days owning the Marlins, and I know plenty of people who’ve worked for Larry Lucchino who say he (Lucchino) can be the most difficult boss imaginable. That’s a pressure-cooker job to step into, especially in your first GM job. And Dayton is also a midwesterner, born in Wichita, and moving his kids to Kansas City might seem a little less daunting than moving them to Boston.
Expectations aren’t high in Kansas City. They have nowhere to go but up, and Dayton’s work ethic and knowledge of player development and scouting will assure they put the most emphasis on that part of the organization, which is the only way the Royals can become consistently competitive again, by developing their own talent the way the Braves have done, assuring you have players who will be affordable major leaguers until their fourth or fifth years, and giving you pieces to use in trades for a veteran pitcher here or hitter there, etc. The Royals have to do it like that to have any hope.
The Braves? Their player development side will be in good hands. Dayton’s assistants and colleagues, such as minor league operations director J.J. Picollo and Latin and international scouting heads Marco Paddy and Rene Francisco, are all top-notch, experienced guys, and scouting director Roy Clark is absolutely one of the best in the business. Those areas shouldn’t suffer, even if they divide Dayton’s duties until figuring out a full-time replacement.
The Royals hit a home run with Dayton. But unless Stan Kasten swoops in and hires away Frank Wren - and that’s definitely a possibility - the Braves have another heir waiting at John’s side. And even if Wren is hired away before Schuerholz retires, there will be no shortage of candidates for the Braves to choose from. I have a feeling guys like Billy Beane might be interested when the job becomes available.
OK, sorry I didn’t have time to discuss on-field stuff. Just thought I’d throw in my two-cents’ worth about Dayton leaving.
As bad as the Braves have looked the past couple of days, keep in mind they are 15-7 since May 7, while the Mets are 10-11 and Phillies 11-10 in that stretch. The division is very winnable (just be thankful Braves aren’t in the west … whew, do they struggle against those teams in recent years, or what?)
Tyler Yates ain’t the answer in the ‘pen, but Schuerholz is combing the wires, talking to GMs, checking all possibilities. I really believe he’ll find another guy suitable for closing/set-up work before July 31, and that the Braves will stay in this thing until then. But Lidge is back in the closer job for Houston now, and with them signing Roger, I don’t see them dumping their closer when they don’t have another guy who looks better for the role. Or dumping anyone, for that matter, who might help them. They’re going for it.
Comments
By Sam
May 31, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
Moore is too good for the Royals. Until they get an owner willing to do more for that franchise, no level of GM skill is gonna do much.
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
Good insight, DOB. One would think that the Braves “system” is probably so set that one person will not make or break it. Good luck to Dayton… never really knew ye’.
Regarding the ‘pen, man I never could understand why we didn’t make more of a play for Farnsworth. He’s no Soriano, but has the mentality and the powerful stuff to become a very good closer. Sure looks better than any of the available options out there now. But maybe JS will pull something out of thin air.
By Matthew
May 31, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this
You’re right about Houston “going for it,” but I still don’t see them as toppling the Cardinals. I hate to see Moore go to KC, but I think it is a credit to JS that his lieutenants are so sought after-go get ‘em Dayton.
I know you hate this question, DOB, but I have to ask. Is anything worth talking about in the rumor mill for the Braves? I am so sick of reading the trash from ESPN about Hudson leaving, and all the other garbage.
I think the Braves are maybe one or two pieces away from continuing their run. Ray in the closer’s role is a good idea, but the defense and the middle relief need to firm up first, in my view. A 1B who was Gold Glove caliber and who consistently hits .320 with power would be ideal, but I don’t think Pujols is going anywhere, so we’ll have to be content with living la vida Rocha. What about Thorman, is he a possiblity?
Thanks for the hard work DOB-it’s much appreciated.
By TennesseePaul
May 31, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
Nice post DOB. I was saddened to see Dayton go. I don’t know these guys, but I know they’re Braves and I jeolously want to keep them all here. At least he went to a different league. And ironically, isn’t that where Schuerholtz got his first GM job? Anywho, with the players I’ve seen come up through the system, I can imagine he’s good.
More importantly, do we get some sort of compensation for this? We got some guy from the Orioles for Leo… does that same thing happen in this case? Can we pick up a kickass closer for compensation? Just sayin’…
Last 2 days have been pathetic. Monday, the starters didn’t help. All the errors, Thomson giving up 7 runs. But we did come close to tying it up until the bullpen imploded. Same thing with yesterday. We were in it until Yates came in there. I have more faith in Cormier. I think he could have gotten through that. But it doesn’t matter. Yates stunk the place up, lowering his value. Cormier was demoted, lowering his value. Reitsma is horrible, obliterating his value. If this keeps going the Braves Bullpen is going to become the burrial ground for major league pitchers. That’s a complete 180 from what Braves pitching used to be. There has to be something out there that’s better. Maybe some wide-eyed rookie down on the farm can come up and pull a Francoeuresque-callup of pitching this year.
By CHRIST4REAL
May 31, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
ISNT JEFF NELSON STILL WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO COME CALLING FOR HIS SERVICES?
By Texter87
May 31, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
DOB Why do we care about what Royals have as a GM? OR WHO? It is news alright, not for bloggers to write about or discuss..We have bigger problems to talk and exchange ideas FOR , we like to vent or simply inform each other about our beloved Braves. I don’t care what KC Royals have as a GM. It doesn’t help the Braves or does it? You are a great beat writer my friend, I just don’t understand why wasting time and effort for the news that has nothing to do for the Braves’ playoff chances. Please don’t get mad at me, just explain to us why should we care about the news that the Moore guy is leaving? Thank you.
By Keith
May 31, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
I hate to see Dayton leave, but you never know he could come back in a couple of years just like Bobby Cox did.
By deadhead@a*.com
May 31, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
WILL STARTUP WILL BE THE CLOSER FOR THE BRAVES BY THE END OF THE YEAR. I WATCHED HIM IN ATHENS FOR 3 YEARS AND HE WAS LIGHTS OUT WITH COMPLETE CLOSER MINDSET. AND I HAVENT HEARD ANYTHING BAD ABOUT HIM FROM SINGLE A TO MISSISSIPPI WHERE HES CLOSING NOW.
AND THE BULLDOGS WOULD HAVE BEATEN NC STATES A* 2 YEARS AGO IF IT WERE TIED 9-9 IN THE NINTH AND JOEY DEVINE AND STARTUP HAD TO FINISH OFF THE GAME. F*** THE WOLFPACK
By nathan
May 31, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
That is good news for the Royals, they’ve been a mess every since JS left there.
DOB - Have you talked to Bobby about Ken Ray? Is there something he knows that we don’t know? Why wouldn’t he at least give him a shot at the closer’s roll? He looked awesome (1-2-3 in his save) and pretty darn good in the 8th. I don’t even look at relievers ERA - it can get blown out of proportion with a bad outing - but what I do look at is the fact that he’s only given up runs in 2 of his 25 or 26 outings! I realize “the pressure” may different being THE 9th in guy, but hard to “Blow” a save if you don’t give up any runs in my calculation. So if (I realize it’s a BIG if) all of those outings were “save” situations, he would be 23 out of 25 in save situations.
Come on Bobby……..PLEEEEEAAASE give DEATH RAY a shot. Because if you keep going with Reitsma, your gonna get stung!
By P'Cola Michael
May 31, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
Now taking the mound for your Atlanta Braves….John Rocker!
Somebody go to your local Wal Mart and see if he is stacking strawberries or something…anybody but CR.
By MGL
May 31, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
deadhead - Will Startup is now in Richmond.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
Ya know, I think Ned Yost was the one that about Kicked Rocker’s a$$ in that “closed door” meeting the spring after the SI article. Now that he’s gone, maybe that’s not a bad idea to bring the psycho back in. I believe he’s sportin’ a pretty good Mullet these days, that alone is intimidating!!! LMAO!
Obviously, he’s not the answer, but it’s hard to imagine anybody failing worse than Reitsma. What really sucks, is that Reitsma used to be a darn good set-up guy, and now I’m worried that even if we find a closer is his brain messed up enough (lack of confidence) to the point where no matter what inning he comes in, he’ll get himself a bad case of the common-Kolb!
By RobG
May 31, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
I have defended LaRoache and Frenchy till the bitter end on these blogs and criticized many of you for not having patience. And while I am still in their corner, I can no longer sit back patiently for this bullpen. The Braves have had issues with the bullpen for several years now, but this is by far the worst it’s been. I honestly think they would have almost as good a chance by releasing everyone except Ray, and pulling 6 other pitchers out of a hat that they have in their system or on the waiver wire right now. This is really starting to get old. Don’t get me wrong, I will still cheer on Reitsma and company and pull for them, but the confidence in them is all but gone. I was at the game in San Fran when Chipper went down, and I just remember sitting in my seat when Reitsma came in just knowing what was about to happen. That took all of 3 pitches and LANCE NIEKRO hit a friggin bomb…..LANCE NIEKRO! and sure enough about 10 pitches later I was walking out of AT&T listening to the ‘roid defending freaks talk all kinds of sh*&. I am as loyal and patient as Bobby on most occasions, but sorry guys if moves aren’t made, this is one ship that won’t be righted.
By tigger101023
May 31, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
Texter, I think that the heir apparent to JS leaving, the guy who also happens to be the asst GM and in charge of player development, is a pretty big deal.
It all depends on who else from the organization follows him to KC - we have to hope that the number of scouts (and coaches) that follow him is kept to a minimum…
By David O'Brien
May 31, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
Texter, it has nothing to do with where he went (Royals), but the fact that he was the Braves’ asst. GM in charge of player development and scouting, therefore arguably the second-most important person in the front office.
Sorry, but if you don’t think losing the guy that Baseball America rated the No. 1 GM prospect in baseball, the guy who’s helped build the best farm system in baseball, then I think we’d have to go into a much deeper discussion about the importance of said system.
You’re only concerned about the team on the field. Fine, but where do you think those guys came from, the McCanns, Francoeurs, Chippers, LaRoches, Giles, etc. All from the organization, not from other teams through trades.
Sorry to have wasted your valuable time. But maybe, just maybe, you should understand your team and the sport a little deeper than you apparently do.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
RobG & DOB……
Didn’t Bobby/JS do just that a few years back? (send 3 or 4 guys down & bring up young guys in one transaction)
If I remember correctly it might have been the transaction that brought Millwood up. I can’t remember the others….Mike Cather? McGlinchy?….I’m completely blanking it out. But I agree, time too send a few down & bring a few up. It might not work, but this aint worken either.
Heck, who though Frenchy and McCann could make the jump and be ready to play, there could be a couple of “hidden” gems at AA or AAA, just waiting to surprise everybody.
By rian
May 31, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
I think that Dayton Moore leaving is the worst thing that has happenned to the Braves in the last 15 years. He was clearly being groomed to be the heir apparent to Scheurholz…going from associate scout to director of scouting and development in 12 years! Some guys are scouts for longer than that. The immediate fallout will be two fold. First all of our scouts and front office people love Dayton and as many of them will follow him to KC as KC allows him to bring. Why would they stay here with no owner and no guarantee of future employment. Second Frank Wren will be running the organization!! Frank (according to insiders, even though DOB says its Piccollo) is the one who begged to bring Tyler Yates up…we all know how that went. Please dont go Dayton.
By Chop Chop
May 31, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
CHRIST4REAL,
JEFF NELSON IS PITCHING FOR THE DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPION CHICAGO WHITE SOX, SO NO, HE IS NOT WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO COME CALLING FOR HIS SERVICES.
Texter87, the reason why we should care about Moore leaving is because he has played a key role in the organization the last few years. DOB explained that in the post. He’s no Dean Taylor or Chuck LaMar, so he should do a pretty good job in KC if he is truly given free rein.
Don’t hurt him too bad, DOB.
By Jay Oryburg
May 31, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
Good buy to Dayton. He is a real talent.
By the way, watch out for the Reds. They have more talent than any other team in the National League. Give them some starting pitching, and the reast of the NL is in trouble.
By Chop Chop
May 31, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
**By BirdDawg
May 31, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
Shut up Chop Chop, you have no idea what you are talking about. You are a prime example of the dumb redneck trash that is Atlanta Braves and Atlanta sports in general fans. I am about the only educated person in Atlanta who actually follows Atlanta sports. The only intelligent sports fans in this town I can find are at my favorite sports bar, Woof’s on Piedmont.
I am amazed you idiots can even spell much less use a computer in order to post on here.
I hate it when people get angry when they realize I am right and they are wrong. Get over it you dummies, I am always right.**
And to think that this guy was posting several lengthy Colin Cowherd-inspired essays on Chop Chick’s blog. How pathetic is that? He should’ve left the Cowherd part out and maybe someone would’ve taken him seriously.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
DOB……very good article and points about Moore being “ranked #1” GM prospect.
I completely agree with you…..he has probably made JS’s job easier (decisions to let people go) because of the “stacked” farm system.
Everybody wants to rip Time Warner for not spending money on the free agents. As far as I’m concerned (not that they aren’t good - great players) we have way too much money tied up into Smoltz, Hudson, Chipper & maybe Andruw (though I think he’s the closest to being worth it).
But wouldn’t you rather see the future be bright and have depth at the lower levels and young exciting players coming up. Or would you prefer to “sell the farm” for guys like JD Drew, Sheffield, Tim Hudson (who could still end up being worth the investment) who will only temporarily help & probably underachieve in the postseason.
I’ll take the young guys anyday of the week. Maybe we could stand to “spend” a little more money in the bullpen. But find me a better catcher period, than McCann (other than salty!), Renteria was probably money very well spent as apposed to giving Furcal all that cash, I suppose we could use an upgrade in left field, but how about giving Diaz a shot everyday for a week or two and see what he does.
Even if Time Warner said to JS “spend what you need to spend”. Who would you have wanted him to “overspend” on? Beltran 2 years ago?….AJ Burnett?……Roger Clemens for 4 months?…….Trade for Soriano?……..Sometimes, no wait all of the time, it’s better to spend wisely than to spend just to spend! JS has done a very admirable job with what he had to work with dollar wise. I just think Bobby, for whatever reason is playing the wrong guys that are already on the roster.
Also, DOB whatever happened to the money that Chipper “deferred”? Is JS saving that money for a deadline deal, and if so, who do think might be available at any position to help out.
By Savoie
May 31, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
Ehh are we still in the running for Arthur Blank? He’s a machine…err um spending machine that is…Cox’sie could become the new GM and Eddie Perez could take over manager duties, or TP (Terry Pendelton)for that matter! For what it’s worth, they both have great hands! ;)
Andrew Savoie
sn = ncaa1234
By little cindy
May 31, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
I left a message for prissycola on the previous blog. did you know she has an mba?
By Kentavo
May 31, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
I think Startup should be the man. Can’t you envision The Rolling Stones’ “Start Me Up” blaring as he enters?
By Eric
May 31, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
Dayton Moore means a whole hell of alot to the Braves. But that being said, DOB was right in stating that this won’t cripple them. Besides, even if we didnt have a suitable replacement, whos to say we cant go out and get another GM from a team? We are the Braves…99.9% of GM’s would give there left arm to oversea the Braves.
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this
Nathan, good point. Probably the best tribute to Dayton Moore and his coleagues under JS is that the Braves typically trot out a lineup of 7 of 8 starters groomed through the system… Renteria being the exception.
I like that about the Braves, makes it more of a true ‘home team’, and also is the only way to stay competitive year after year on a limited budget.
I don’t think you can overstate how badly the Braves have been hurt by Devine’s failure to develop. He was a top draft choice, with a 4-yr college career, who was expected to contribute in a big way. Even when healthy, he just hasn’t shown the ability to do the job, and that (along with Reitma’s ineffectiveness) has started an avalance in the bullpen that has yet to be stopped.
By RobG
May 31, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
Maybe Devine hasn’t panned out just yet, but I’d hate to think the Braves were really counting on him to contribute to the big club 2 months after being drafted. He was rushed and it’s nobody’s fault. Huston Street came in dominant and the Braves rightfully tried to see if Devine could do the same for them. The one that truly hurts right now is Adam Wainwright. I was 100% behind JS for making the JD Drew trade and I still to this day am. He gave us one hell of a year. But Wainwright is absolutely tearing it up for St. Louis right now, and it would sure be nice to have him around. But who knows, Leo and young pitchers were oil and water and maybe Dave Duncan has a lot to do with Wainwright’s success.
By Walter Duffy
May 31, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
By Savoie
May 31, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
Ehh are we still in the running for Arthur Blank? He’s a machine…err um spending machine that is…Cox’sie could become the new GM and Eddie Perez could take over manager duties, or TP (Terry Pendelton)for that matter! For what it’s worth, they both have great hands! ;)
Andrew Savoie
Jeez. This blog is heading south, very much like your (DOB) article about Vince and Jen last year! Come on man, can’t let this happen, put your foot donw on this sexy bastard!
By Voice of Reason
May 31, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
I agree MBATL that the Braves were counting on more from Devine sooner than later; however, don’t count him out so quickly. He really is injured, contrary to the conspiracy theorists among us. I believe that he will be a big contributor to the ‘pen at some point. The big question is “when?” Also, Startup is getting some attention from the brass. (Remember when the Braves made wholesale callups in the ‘pen a few years back?)
By doug
May 31, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this
i thought his name was Drayton, not Dayton?
By Jason in KC
May 31, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
From all I hear, this is a great move for the Royals. Before the advent of “Moneyball” and other baseball philosophies, there was “The Royal Way” which was lead by Joe Burke and John Schuerholz. The scouting and development of amateur and minor league talent was the cornerstone of the Royals success in the 70s and 80s. Those in KC were sorry to see JS go, but we are hopeful this new leader will begin to revive the scouting and development operation. The Royal Way has been instituted with outstanding success in Atlanta. Fans like me hope Mr. Moore’s experience and a true committment by ownership to spend money on establishing a first rate scouting and development program will bring some pride back to a formerly great baseball organization and city.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
RobG, I completely agree with you about Wainwright. That was a good move at the time, and if JD would’ve been willing to settle for a little less, I would’ve been behind signing him long term. The only reason to ask him to settle for less would be because of the health risks.
But if you read a couple of my posts earlier, I am a firm believer that young “hard throwers” weren’t what Leo wanted to work with, so the got shown the door (O. Perez, Marquis, Schmidt, Capellan, etc…..). So had Leo & Wainwright stayed, I’m sure it wouldn’t have worked out. I was hoping that McDowell would be all for hard throwers, but maybe it’s Bobby wanting the location/groundball pitchers. I’m surprised they have hung on to Smoltz as long as they have. But the other exceptions to the rules are Wholers & Rocker. So maybe I’m completely way off. But for sure, with the starting staff they (Bobby, Leo, JS) appear to be in love with the “junk-ballers”.
But even when Devine was up, he wasn’t throwing as hard as they said he did in college. Go Figure.
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
VOR, agreed… I’m not down on Devine, except that he hasn’t performed so far. I’m not suggesting we give up on him.
RobG, ‘course you’re right about Wainwright. Only thing I would remind you of (and correct me if I’m not remembering right) is that we had NO corner outfielders coming into that year… CJ was moving back in to 3B, and Sheff was off for the big dollars in NY. We had to have a bat in one of the corners, and got it in Drew.
But yeah, would be awefully nice to have Adam W. in the ‘pen now.
By Not-A-Blogger
May 31, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave.
Going back a few days: if you like Bobby Bare, you’ve gotta hear “Drunk and Crazy” (1980). Don’t know if it’s available on disc, but you can listen or download online.
By RobG
May 31, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
Leo didn’t have a problem with guys that threw hard. He wanted guys that would pound the ball down and away for strikes. And his philosophy did work. But most pitching people will say you need to use both sides of the plate, and this is where Leo and a lot of the younger pitchers butted heads. But pitching isn’t about how hard you throw. Remember Craig House? The guy was in triple digits. Problem is his pitches would sometimes end up in the dugout (joking).
By RobG
May 31, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this
and MBATL, you’re exactly right. They didn’t have a thing in the corners for that year. Which is exactly why I thought the move for Drew was brilliant. His salary was still low which fit right into the Braves plans. But there’s 2 reasons why it’s important to have a strong minor league system. The obvious being the inexpensive young talent for your club. But the other being bargaining chips and trading chips come time for an off season move or deadline move. JS has been brilliant at both, JD trade not withstanding.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
RobG…..your right, about the “away, away, away……low & away” philosophy. But, if you recall Leo was always talking about (and I could be wrong on the percentage) about throwing at 90-95 percent velocity, with impeccable location. Well, 95 percent of a 96 MPH fastball is 90-91 MPH. HMMMMM, what do you know? That’s about the velocity Maddux hung around, give or take a few MPH. (Remember in 98 when Maddux got the save in the NLCS against San Diego? He hit 93-94 on the gun a couple of times.)Not everybody, in fact not anybody has the control Maddux had 10 years ago.
I understand throwing hard all the time isn’t always healthy (see: Smoltz, Prior, Wood, Beckett) but I’ve said it a hundred times and I’ll say it a hundred more. If you live and die by the junkball/groundout pitcher, you are asking for bloop hits to kill you when it counts. So it would be nice if at least the middle relievers had some gas to get out of the 1st & 3rd or 2nd & 3rd with 0 outs or 1 out jams with a couple of strike outs. You can’t always count on the ground ball double play.
But you are correct, all of the guys that Leo & Bobby have stuck with that threw hard, had pretty good control. Except for Wohlers at the end. LOL!
By hk
May 31, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this
journalist bob,
… was so inspired by your numerical analysis earlier today, was moved to do one too … back on May 1, did an thing on the value and performance of each player on the team, projected year end won/lost record based on the way things were up until that date, then a Hi / Low / Most Likely ..
… based on the way the guys look through today, they’ll end up with 86 wins … (new numbers pink columns, all other may 1 numbers:
here
By nathan
May 31, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this
I guess the point I was getting at with the velocity that I didn’t add in the last post, was, if your velocity is hight, you can get away with a couple of mistakes now and then.
Now with 90-91 mph fastball located well, you may get 1 and 2 pitch ground ball outs, a very good way to maintain stamina and efficiency. But, if you don’t hit your spots with a 91 mph fastball, ask Hudson, Davies, Thomsen, & Ramirez what row they land in!
But having said that, Sosa missed his spot the other night and got hammered too. Though, I believe that was on a hanging slider.
So I guess to summize……It would be ideal to have high velocity & great location.
But you can name those “superstar” pitchers on 2 hands. (Schilling, Pedro 10 years ago, R. Johnson - though he struggled early in his career, Smoltz, Gagne, Rivera, Billy Wagner, Clemens etc……you get the point.
By Anne
May 31, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this
I’m slightly worried about what will happen at the draft. I’ve read Moore won’t join the Royals until after the draft, in which case I would assume he’d still be with the Braves. And as the head player development guy, I’d also assume he’d be in on the draft. Isn’t a conflict of interest, though, to draft for one team then turn around and head up another?
By nathan
May 31, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this
Good question Anne.
By TennesseePaul
May 31, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
I would imagine, most of the research is complete for the draft by now. I’d imagine that because this is the Braves and I just picture the Braves doing their home work before schedule. The Draft is next week right? How much could change in between then? Maybe if a Chuck James situation appears (shoe-in top pick dives off a roof and breaks his arm, scares everyone away). But that doesn’t occur too often.
After reading MoneyBall (I know, the Braves don’t live that way…) I got a pretty cool insite into player drafts. And if Billy Beane is any person to watch, they had the draft picks they wanted already orginized and most of the rest of it was figuring out who they pick if another team picks first. Assuming all that, I’d imagine that if it appeared Dayton Moore strayed from professionalism and Braves loyalty so far that he told the Royals to draft the players the Braves would have choosen, someone else in the office would notice and put an end to it before it got way out of hand. But something tells me Dayton isn’t a Met and would think of cheating like that.
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this
Yeah, I doubt Dayton would take advantage (you don’t get ahead doing that kind of thing), and I doubt JS would put himself in a position to be taken advantage of… if anyone understands ‘corporate’, it’s JS. Interesting question, though.
By MGL
May 31, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this
Nats beat Phillies 3 - 2; bach to tied for 2nd.
By TennesseePaul
May 31, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this
I don’t even know who’s throwing tonight for the Braves…. But I think we will take tonight. We must. I hate the Dodgers. I need the season series to at least be tied. Plus I want to see a victory. A dream come true would be a resounding 15-0 winning, or something of an equal spread.
GO BRAVES!!!
By Bob, journalist
May 31, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this
Kansas City needs the Calvary, not just the Lone Ranger … but, given time, Dayton Moore might be the man to get the job done.
I know that it’s off subject but with all the talk about the leadoff position in recent times … I thought that a look at the situational stats might prove interesting.
Giles is hitting .242 OBP 347. He’s 19 for 84 when leading off an inning … .226 OBP .301 … With the bases empty, he’s 29 for 129 or .229 OBP .310. In the first inning, Giles is 7 for 43 or .163 OBP .250.
That is to say, he’s a bit better when someone’s on base.
Adam LaRouche numbers are similar to those of Giles … hitting 238. Leading off an inning, he’s 11 for 45 or .244 OBP .306.
In case anyone is interested … Matt Diaz is batting .356 and has led off an inning 14 times with only 7 hits or .500. With the bases empty, he’s 15 for 35 or .429 OBP .444. With 2 outs, he’s hitting .385.
Chipper Jones is hitting .297. Leading off an inning, he’s 10 for 23 or .435 OBP .519 … With the bases empty, he’s 22 for 68 or .324 OBP 395. In the first inning, Chipper is 6 for 37 or .162 OBP .205.
Andruw Jones Leading off an inning, he’s 11 for 48 or .229 OBP 315. When the bases are empty, he’s 25 for 85 or .294 OBP .368. In the first inning, Andruw’s 6 for 28 or .214 OBP .273.
Brian McCann is good, regardless of situation, hitting 347 OBP .399. When leading off an inning, he’s 13 for 33 or .394 OBP .429 … With the bases empty, he’s 26 for 76 or .342 OBP .375.
Ryan Langerhans is hitting .255. He’s 5 for 29 when leading off an inning or .172 OBP 200. With the bases empty, he’s 20 for 91 or .220 OBP .284
Francouer is hitting .247. He’s 13 for 53 or .245 when leading off … OBP .259. With the bases empty, he’s 28 for 126 or .222 OBP .234. In the first inning, Frenchy is 1 for 10.
Renteria is hitting .333. interestingly, Edgar is 6 for 21 when leading off .222 OBP .276 … but 35 for 100 or .350 when batting with the bases empty OBP .398. In the first inning, Edgar is hitting 20 for 42 or .476.
Why are we trailing the Mets? Part of the reason may be the first inning … Giles .163 .. Renteria .476 .. Jones .162 .. Jones .214.
Taking license with the situational stats … If Chipper led off(.425), followed by Edgar (.476), then Matt(.356), and Brian (.347) … Andruw, Jeff, the Pitcher, and Wilson Betemit (.291) … we might have a better first inning and winning percentage.
Also of interest, Frenchy walks 1 time in each 74 at bats … Matt Diaz has no walks in 73 at bats.
Regardless of rationalization, strikeouts are non-productive. I’ve always considered a 15% strikeout rate as only marginally acceptable for a contact hitter but very good for a power hitter. As a point of reference, Chipper’s career strikeout rate 15.8%.
Everyone points to LaRouche’s strikeouts this season … but Ryan Langerhans leads the pack. He strikes out 30.3% of the time. Adam only strikes out 29.1% .. Wilson 26.7% .. Andruw 23.4% .. Marcus 19.6% .. Jeff 19.2% .. Chipper 18.9% .. Matt 15.1% .. Edgar 11.5% and Brian 9.9%.
Here are the batting averages when the ball is put in play: Matt .419 .. Wilson .397 .. Brian .385 .. Edgar .376 .. Ryan .366 .. Chipper .365 .. Andruw .354 .. Adam .336 .. Jeff .306 and Marcus .301.
What other motivating visual could a Batting Coach need? If he needs one, try winning by a single run in extra innings when your team has 8 homeruns and the opposition none.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this
Excellent info Rob. Ive always thought that Chipper should be in the 2 hole. And now that his power is slipping away from him, that would be the perfect spot.
By RobG
May 31, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this
Journalist Bob, I believe the blog you are looking for is under oaklandathletics.com/computergeekswhoknownothingaboutbaseballandrelyoncomputers. This is Atlanta where (like JS says) they play winning ball not computer generated crap.
By Bob, journalist
May 31, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this
I’ve found where both Tyler Yates and Bobby Cox said that Yates was overthrowing … but, nowhere did I see that anyone saying that Tyler was throwing too hard … as indicated on the previous Blog.
Did I miss it or is overthrowing considered to be the same as throwing too hard?
Different thread … after John Smoltz’s last start, he expressed in an interview that he was mad because Adam LaRouche made him cover First rather than making the play unassisted … when John was having problems with his hamstring.
Why was Smoltz still in the game if it was bothering him to the extent that he would feel that way?
Perhaps of far greater importantance … why would he choose make it public that LaRouche made him mad?
By David O'Brien
May 31, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this
Rian, you wrote something about me saying Piccolo said to bring up Yates? What in the world are you talking about? I mean, I have no earthly idea what you have read, but I never, ever wrote Piccolo’s name in a blog before today, and certainly wrote nothing about who suggested to bring up Yates.
Lay off the sauce this early in the day, my friend.
DOUG, “Drayton” owns the Astros. Dayton now works for the Royals.
By TennesseePaul
May 31, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this
Maybe Smoltz is opening a window for us… Maybe the team is a little more bothered by LaRoche’s laziness than they let on. Aside from the abscent minded crap he pulled a few weeks ago, and ignoring the play he pulled a year ago that let Meltdown Bradley hit a grandslam, and over looking he’s post season baserunning, maybe the team is getting a little bit tired of the lack of hustel?
Of course, that’s all speculation from this end. I know there are those of you who will blast such speculation. I’ll have you know, I cheer LaRoche on when he is in the game, but that doesn’t mean I’m not dissappointed when I see him shuffling and lollygaging all over the place.
By LAC
May 31, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this
Bottom Line here in KCMO…
Worthless CHEAP owner, who knows NOTHING ABOUT SPORTS and how he got his money is the eight wonder of the universe… Need to go home to walfart and sell TP.
He is the ONLY person killing this team… it does NOT matter who the GM is, the Manager or whoever… He is CHEAP as it gets, and ever DUMMER… Until he sells… Royals will continue to flop…
By TennesseePaul
May 31, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this
Bob: fascinating stats you have there. I like what you have shown. I’m sold on playing Diaz every day and having him bat leadoff. Use Langerhans as a defensive sub until Diaz proves he can’t cut it and then switch back…. Play the hot hand… it seems to work in Vegas.
I don’t think I’d move Chipper or Renteria. I think over the long haul those guys will completely own their spots. McCann in Clean up is cool, but typically that’s more of a power position, and I like the idea of keeping it that way, so I’d stick Andruw back in there and leave McCann in the five spot.
Above and beyond anything else that needs to be mentioned, the Braves have to learn plate discipline. I read about how TP likes them to stay aggressive but this is getting ridiculous. It’s as if they are being told aggressive and patient are polar opposites. Sort-of a Baseball version of freewill and predestination. They aren’t opposites. They work in harmony. McCann seems to know.
By Carolina Lady
May 31, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this
Jimmy, where are you? Last night was wonderful.
By Texter87
May 31, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this
DOB thank you for your response, you have a point on the issue most of us do not think as deep as you. You are explaining to us, fact that you take your time and explain the situation to bloggers like myself shows what a down to earth and a great sports writer you are. I appericate that in a writer and a gentelman.What about Wren? Is he talented? He has anything to do our current success?Again thanks for your time. Go Braves…
By nathar
May 31, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this
I think Marcus Giles has a mouth full of tobacco when he comes to the plate and when he swings hard with that uppercut he swallows a little bit of that tobacco juice and it messes him up and causes him to not make contact and then his OBP is not good like you’d want to see from a leadoff batter. I think I made a mistake talking about velocity. I looked it up in the dictionary and I should have been saying hard stuff. Some pitcher who have had hard stuff had little control and they would walk batters and fill the bases and then could not throw a strike to save their lives. I think sometimes that JS and Bobby Cox made a big mistake letting Wainwright get away for Drew because Drew only played one season here and he decided to go elsewhere. I think some of the players who have left have not been influenced so much by playing for Bobby Cox as for playing for dead presidents. That’s what I think and I’ll tell you more in a minute.
By Texter87
May 31, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this
Should have been ‘DID HE HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH OUR SUCCESS’ sorry about that.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this
tennessee paul, i totally agree with you. Being patient doesn’t mean you can’t swing agressively or try to hit homeruns when you wait for and get “your pitch”. Though most homerun hitters will tell you that when they try to hit them they don’t.
I disagree with leaving andruw in the cleanup spot. Yes if you enjoy Bobby Ball or Earl Weaver ball - pitching defense & a 3 run homer, Andruw is perfect. Unfortuneately for the braves they might have to settle for three 3 run homers, because the pitching and defense seems to have left the building long ago.
But I believe that the top 4 players in the order should be contact/line-drive/doubles hitters. Let’s get some rallies going here. If those people happen to have some pop in their swings, great! Let all of the hackers (Andruw, Frenchy, LaRoche & Giles sit at the bottom of the order).
By Carolina Lady
May 31, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this
Another cheap shot from someone who hasn’t the guts to post under his/her own name: By Carolina Lady
May 31, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this
Jimmy, where are you? Last night was wonderful.
I think it’s pretty obvious that a sleazeball is at work again.
By jennifer
May 31, 2006 07:53 PM | Link to this
What a HR by A.Jones..!!!! go BRAVES
By TennesseePaul
May 31, 2006 07:53 PM | Link to this
“Even if you want to, you can’t play forever,” Perez said.
I love Eddie Perez. Something about that guy… I hope he sticks around in the organization.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this
How do you overthrow 2 cutoff men.
By jennifer
May 31, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this
Geee so many people on here mad.everyone take a deep breath. THIS IS JUST A BLOG
By nathan
May 31, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this
Joe & Chip on radio just said essentially said the same thing. I’m paraphrasing but Chip just said: “Jeff likes to show off that arm, but Joe you’d have to agree that in this series the outfielders have not made good decisions.”
To which Joe replied: “Yeah, you just can’t have your back to the infield, and turn around and hurl it towards the direction of the infield.”
I’ve been sayin’ this for two days & getting blasted. So, I guess as fans, you’re not entitled to an educated opionion.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this
for those of you who asked earlier today. Joe Simpson just said on radio that Moore will not be involved in the draft for either Atlanta or KC. As to not have it “look bad” for both sides.
Joe asked JS earlier today, what was going to happen with that situation.
So the answer is directly from JS.
By Woogidy
May 31, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this
Hey tenneseepaul, I don’t think the Braves would want anything from the Royals sor compensation. Maybe an extra bullpen catcher, those guys got to be worn out as much as this ‘pen has been used!
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this
It’s the best defensive OF in baseball, in my opinion. Couple of misjudgements… not a big deal.
By jennifer
May 31, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this
Yippie a HR for both of the Jones BoYS..Go BRAVES
By nathan
May 31, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this
MBATL, i mostly agree with you, because they are the best defensive outfield in baseball. But IMO, mental errors usually cost you more than the physical errors do. I could be complaining about nothing, but it seems like every mental mistake the braves have made in the last few days has come back to haunt. And those suck worse as a fan to swallow, because it tells you that the head just aint in the game.
About darn time for Chipper’s Power….and opposite field, that’s a good sign.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this
Wow!!!!!
As Fred Sanford would say “I think I’m comin to see you Elizabeth, I’m havin’ the BIG ONE!
A Hit and Run AND somebody made contact.
1st & 3rd one out!
Now that’s how you add runs on with a 4 run lead & a shaky bullpen.
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this
Nathan, don’t think you’re complaining about nothing; think you’re complaining about EVERYTHING. Watch the Yanks every day, or the Astros, even the Cards. Nobody plays perfectly. Everybody has holes. We may have a few more than usual, but this constant b’tching about every failure is tiresome, to me anyway.
By brian
May 31, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this
Great post DOB, but you mention Dayton Moore going to the Royals means he CAN’T succeed JS when the time comes. I beg to differ. If JS steps down in 3-5 years as you suggest, and Moore is a success in KC, I would argue that this move by Moore could strenghten his case to succeed JS in Atlanta. As you mentioned, he is number 3 on the ladder now, behind Wren, and this KC job will give him a low stress chance at being the GM and auditioning for the Braves job. Also no one would be surprised if he left KC to go to Atlanta. Boston, as you mentioned, was a no win situation for Moore. High stress, tough owner to work for, and even if they did well, Epstein would take the credit.
Bottom line, still look for Moore to be high on the list when JS retires.
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this
Tuborg pointed out that Bobby was calling out ‘make him stop’… and now the LAD’s get a balk, for the pitcher not stopping in his windup. Good call Jeff, and Bobby.
By brian
May 31, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this
We all like playing fantasy GM, but DOB - who is on your radar as possibilities for the pen for the Braves (or big bat for that matter)?
By nathan
May 31, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this
Hey, they’re up 5-0 against a pitcher they should be pounding. That’s how you get winning streaks started. By beating the teams you should.
I’m just complaining about everything because, everybody seems to think Bobby is this great commander. Great commanders lead their players, Bobby just sits back and takes credit when things are going good(maybe he doesn’t want to - but people give it to him) but he never accepts credit for the failures.
And yes, if a Braves Pitcher balked with a runner on 3rd, I’d be livid!
Francoeur has an excuse for missing cutoff men. He’s young. But I do assume that baseball is played the same way at all levels. So it’s safe to assume that his little league, high school, and minor league coaches and managers informed him of the importance of hitting cutoff men.
BTW, I’m estatic that we’re up 7 - 0. But you do have to at least have it in the back of your head that that lead is not safe! LOL!
And yeah, the Yankees aren’t perfect. But instead of mentioning another has been (or close to has been) team to compare. How about comparing the Detroit Tigers to the Braves. Who out of those two teams do you think have played better BASEBALL. I’m not even talking Wins & Losses. Just plain old GOOD BALL.
When injuries are involved, whether it’s off season or spring traing you can say “it may take a while to come around” But when there isn’t any major people out of the line up (before your panties bunch up, I realize McCann is a huge injury, but if our season hinges on 1 player, we’re in trouble) you can’t use that excuse. And when it comes to mental mistakes and poor bunts, and walking people with big leads, that just means the talent aint there. I’m willing to accept that this team is not that talented. But other people can’t seem to agree. They think it’s comin around!
I’m not even trying to be an a$$. But even though it was a sweep, you couldn’t have possibly been excited about the way the braves played in Chicago.
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this
Nathan, I’m hopeful, not excited. Take this lineup, 1-8, and I like most of the guys… get McCann back… Langerhans is a question mark, but maybe a solid player… I like the team. The bullpen is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed, but beyond that, I’ll take this lineup.
Your fixation on AJ missing a cutoff man… dude, that stuff happens once in a while, but not often. What’s your point? Demote him? Yell at him? Make him run wind sprints? It’s OVER! You seem to want to make some greater point… that Bobby should be relieved of his duties because AJ missed a cutoff man; is that what you think?
By nathan
May 31, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this
I’m not watchin on TV tonight, listening on MLB Radio.
I’m assuming Hudson is hitting his spots well tonight?
When he’s on….he’s on! But you know what the say about sinkers that don’t sink……they travel along ways! If he could just put together about a 6 or 7 game stretch where he dominates that could jumpstart the rotation to all try and keep up.
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this
btw, I don’t think David Justice ever knew what a cutoff man was, much less threw the ball to one … but somehow losing him was the demise of the Braves.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 09:09 PM | Link to this
no i’m not looking for punishment. or embarassment like when he was younger.
I’m just making a point that most players that have their heads in the game, don’t do that. And there seems to be plenty of things that show me that the players are mentally drained, not paying attention, or for whatever reason, just not in the game! And Bobby needs to do whatever he needs to do to liven people up. Light a match, light a fire….somthing! And you’re right AJ doesn’t do it that often. Klesko used to be notorious for doing it.
I mean, at your job if a whole bunch of people were making mistakes that were costing your “team” “victories” wouldn’t sombody in charge get on their cases.
These guys are grown up millionaires playing a kids game. Respect it and play hard. I’ll read your mind before you type it. Andruw does play hard. I do agree with you he does. All the time. That’s why he’s actually worth his salary.
I know that history repeats, and one of the many reasons that the Braves win every year is because Bobby & JS don’t panic like a particular fan you’re arguing with LOL! But sometimes this whole “players manager” thing just burns me up. He’d rather yell at an umpire for not giving his pitcher a strike 18 inches off the plate, than get on the pitcher and catchers case for nibbling.
Do I think that this team will win the division……..YES. But that has more to do with my thought that the Mets will somehow choke rather than the Braves taking it from them.
Even all my complaining about who’s playin (starting) for the Braves, I don’t neccessarily have a problem with the players, but you have to admit, he could shuffle the lineup a little bit.
As far as the cutoff throw……I’ll let it go, it wasn’t totally about that play, it’s what making a play like that says for the mentality of the team and how the team is being coached. But here is a thought, maybe Bobby shouldn’t be the one b*** at a player making a mistake, maybe the pitcher’s should get on their case. But the way they’ve been pitching maybe they shoulsn’t :)
But if you would like me to “sugar coat” and stick up for their state of mind. Maybe, just maybe, it’s jet lag & plain old being worn down from bein on the road for so long.
So MBATL….you have my word not another word about the missed cutoff……….until it happens again! LOL!
By Bob, journalist
May 31, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this
RobG,
You certainly put me in my place!
I freely admit to knowing nothing about baseball … but neither do I know much about computers.
If you’ve read anything that I’ve written on these Blogs about using player statistics, you’ll know that I caution folks to be very careful … especially if they’re going to place much stock in such things.
Sorry if you found it offensive … I simply presented some information I found interesting … thought others might too.
I found it thought provoking but didn’t reach any conclusions … except maybe that those who do know something about baseball … and who are charged with the responsibility of making decisions might already be looking at such things.
I can’t understand why would you choose to start your comments with such a neat bit of misdirection … except for the obviously incorrect web address … and then end it with something so oblique as “This is Atlanta where they play winning ball not computer generated crap.”
I truly don’t understand what your statement means … I agree that they play baseball in Atlanta … and have for a long, long time … sometimes they win and sometimes they lose … and some folks may well play computer generated “crap”, whatever that is, but I don’t know what that has to do with me or baseball.
If you’re interested in the statistics, they’re found on the www.AtlantaBraves.com site.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this
I agree with you MBATL….Justice was severly over rated other than for one hanging slider in the WS & the last half of his rookie year…which when you think about it, he one that ROTY award by basically having 8 HOT weeks of hitting.
Didn’t bother me at all to see him go.
Though I did like his fire and emotion. He was basically, a hinderence to the team, cuz they would count on him in the off season & not upgrade, but was always hurt. Very incosistant. But he did have pretty good patience at the plate.
By Submariner
May 31, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this
Does anyone know where are all of the trade rumors about Hudson are coming from? Are they lagit? With the Bravos only 4 1/2 back and Smoltz not getting any younger, I can’t see Hudson going anywhere.
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this
I would guess that guys who screw up (especially “mentally”) do hear it from Bobby or his lieutenants… just because it’s not reported on t.v. doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Don’t know, but I have a feeling I wouldn’t want to be in Bobby’s doghouse.
With a 25-man roster, you just can’t make draconian moves when somebody makes a bad play.
Anyway, Nathan, it’s all good. Keep the negative posts coming (and you do make some very good points, IMO), and I’ll keep defending the status quo… and we’ll see where it leads.
By eric the elder
May 31, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this
Yes, nathan, I agree with mbatl. You have good and interesting posts, and I enjoy reading them. But you’ve been making this point about hitting the cutoff for a couple of days now, and I’m pretty sure most of us get it.
An outfielder’s throw is much like a pitch. The release point has a lot to do with where the throw goes. A pitcher trying for a letter high pitch might let the ball go an instant too soon and the pitch sails high. A pitcher has the luxury of a constant and repetitive motion, whereas an outfielder has to throw from all kinds of positions. I don’t think we can know for sure whether missing the cutoff is a mental mistake or just a ball that sails, like some of Furcal’s did early last year. In Andruw’s case, I think it WAS a mental mistake because of the way he was beating up on himself afterward. But I don’t think that’s always the case.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this
Can somebody tell me who’s watching the game…..how hard is odalis throwing. It doesn’t sound like he’s overpowering anybody. Seems to be an awful lot of dinks & doinks falling in.
By brian
May 31, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this
read previous blogs submariner
basically the New York Post had a story that was picked up by espn.com rumor mill that IF the Braves fall out of contention look for Hudson and his big contract to be dealt. First the Braves are not out of contention. Second, they talk about the Yankees needing pitching, but Yankees don’t have the prospects it would take anyway.
Don’t worry about it was DOB’s response
By brian
May 31, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this
odalis perez in another example of JS unloading a prospect while the value is high but unltimately flops.
Dan Meyer, Bubba Nelson, …
Of course, Schmidt ended up a pretty good pitcher
By Submariner
May 31, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this
brian- thanks. I read the story, but it didn’t state any real source. I took it as wishful thinking in New York.
By brian
May 31, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this
no problem - i panic and asked the same thing after I read it on espn. DOB did answer it directly a couple of blogs ago, though I cannot remember which one
By nathan
May 31, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this
I enjoy jabbing with you guys. I used to have a good buddy that was a braves fan. We used to “complain” for hours about all of the BS that is braves baseball…..good and bad! But he recently has switched to hockey, so I got nobody to b*h to. My wife don’t care at all. So this is my only outlet. I realize I get a little sarcastic sometimes, but I think that’s better than just flat out being an a$$,
And you are probably right, Bobby probably does repremand his players privately. And I suppose that’s good enough for me.
Now I know I said I was done with this. But this is just a “retaliation” to your post. I’m not complaining so much about Frenchy’s “missed” cutoff throw. Mistakes will happen. But throwin home with another runner on 1st when you have ZERO chance of getting that player at the plate is either an ignorant play or a throw out of frustration. Those are plays that the Royals, Pirates & any other perennial losing team makes on a regular basis. I’m more so hoping that this is not the beginning of that kind of baseball. Since we are used to at the very least watching “smart” baseball being played. Always a staple of Bobby Cox. And if plays like that are going to be the norm than Bobby maybe has lost control.
But honestly, I don’t really believe any of that. I just like to complain to get your guys’ goats! BAAAAHHHH!
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this
testoserone, probably, Nathan… once in a while a guy just needs to air it out… Agreed, if we see a lot of that kind of play, we need to worry.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this
Hey……if chipper sarts hitting for power again, and we get a healthy McCann Back that changes everything.
I know this is and would be very unconventional, but with the seemingly lack of prospects in the minors to bring up for our pen, and not much in the way of quality arms to trade for, does anybody else out there think we should go for a little Coors Field / Rockies style of play and trade for a couple of BIG TIME hitters. Then we could just count on above average starting pitching, mashing the ball & hoping we don’t need 2 or 3 relievers in one night. (since I’m not sure we have 2 or 3 quality arms to turn to.)
In this theory our starters wouldn’t worry about “personal stats” , quality starts or whatever you wanna call it. Just get us to the 8th inning however you gotta do it. I mean the name of the game is outscoring the opponant isn’t it. I would personally hate this style of ball, but I don’t think we have the bullpen to win many 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 kind of games. It goes against my favored small ball theory. But we could be all about hit and runs, and mashing!
It could be a new brand of Arena Baseball……Starting Pitching, Defense, and (2) 3-run homers! LMAO.
It sounds kinda crazy but it just may work.
We could go with a 8 man pitching staff, and pinch hit for matchups. Then if we get in a bind, say like a long extra inning game or blow out, let LaRoche mop up.
I’m kinda serious about most of it, except for the 8 man staff. I realize that can’t work over the long haul.
Thoughts anybody!
By jennifer
May 31, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this
geee just think a couple of hours ago ppl on this blog wanted to trade chipper,lol
By Bull
May 31, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this
Nathan, while you’re getting our goats, is your wife taking a bull by the horn?
By nathan
May 31, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this
Oh that’s too bad, furcal is hurt. I bet you can buy a lot of medical attention for 39 million dollars!
just kidding everybody. I miss Fookie.
Though, i’m not sure why everybody is ripping Giles for all of our troubles. When Furcal was hot he was a catalyst. But when he wasn’t, he was a horrible leadoff man. Swinging for the fences and what not.
But we could use a more consitant lead off hitter, even if it means sacrificing some of the power. I wouldn’t be apposed to trading Giles if we got some good return on him. Which I’m sure we would. That’s not to say he’s is the root of our problems, it’s just that he is the only guy that really is tradable. When I say tradable, I mean, young enough, cheap enough, and actually valuable. Somebody might put him in the 3 hole like he was in the minors and let him rip, 50 doubles for about 120 RBI.
I like Giles, so don’t take this as a rip on him. But seriously, who’s gonna take LaRoche off our hands, or even Chipper for what we would ask for him. The only other chip we’ve got is Salty. And I think he should be moved to 1B and brought up next year if not late this year. Very late, so there is no scouting report on him like early with francoeur. Kinda like when Andruw came up. You think Pettitte throws him those pitches if he acutally had a good scoutng report on him?
By TennesseePaul
May 31, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this
Nathan: Bobby just sits back and takes credit when things are going good(maybe he doesn’t want to - but people give it to him) but he never accepts credit for the failures
I think what players really appreciate about Cox is, he never assignes blame for any failures. He’s pretty even keal and as you pointed out, he can’t help it if everyone gives him credit. But anywho… I’m going to go back and finish reading those posts… they’re quite long.
By nathar
May 31, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this
My all-time team: The names for the players at each position are:
First Base: Who Second Base: What Third base: I Don’t Know Left field: Why Center Field: Because Pitcher: Tomorrow Catcher: Today Shortstop: I Don’t Give a Darn
The name of the shortstop is not given until the very end of the routine, and the right fielder is never identified, though an interpretation of the transcript could give his name as Naturally.
Bobby Cox, with flaws, is manager.
By Bob, journalist
May 31, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this
Hi MBATL, Nathan!
Since when did you become the master of the understatement “Don’t know, but I have a feeling I wouldn’t want to be in Bobby’s doghouse”? LOL
The only to worry is when Nathan writes a complete paragraph that is full of positives … unless it’s followed by three paragraphs of explaining why it’s really not all that positive.
We may have different perspectives and different ways of expressing ourselves … but we see, hear and read the same things … and truth is truth … so we probably agree more than we admit.
Storms (Nashville) have knocked out the TV and computer twice in the last two hours and the Thunder indicates we’re in for some more of the same.
By jennifer
May 31, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this
WHAT A CATCH FOR GILES!!!!!!!
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this
Think I pretty much meant what I wrote, Bob, journalist. Good luck with the storms.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this
Tennessee Paul, I don’t neccessarily mean that Bobby should call out players specifically. But he could once in a while say “hey, we stunk it up out there tonight, tomorrows another day. If we don’t start playing better ball, it’s gonna get ugly”
Maybe that would put pressure on & make them fail even more, maybe not. I appreciate the fact that he doesn’t say “boy, did Smoltz suck tonight, I don’t know what his problem is, he needs to get his head out of his a$$” ……That would be rude.
PS….Walking the leadoff hitter on 4 pitches with a 9-2 lead is not acceptable.
But the other thing that Bobby could do is take some blame himself. Like saying…”maybe, I shouldn’t have brought the infield in” or “I went with the percentages (lefty vs. lefty) instead of going with the hot hand, that’s my mistake”
Now I realize by admitting, a mistake like that would essentially be saying that whatever pitcher he brought in, he shouldn’t have. So that’s also counter productive.
HMMMM….9-3..leadoff walks score most of the time.
But one thing he can for sure stop doing, is saying stuff like: “Reitsma, just ran into some tough luck out there tonight. He’s been throwing the ball lights out! The ball will bounce our way sooner or later.” All that is, is chocolate covering s**t, as far as I’m concerned.
I just don’t wanna be BS’d into thinking somebody is succeeding when they’re not. I watch the games. Bad luck does happen. But not to the same guy for a full season. Does anybody out there really think that Kolb just had a bad case of luck last year?…….me neither.
Tip your cap to the other team, if you got beat, blame yourself if you caused the loss, and do everything in your power to not make it happen. If that can’t be done, offer to sit down so somebody else can be given the chance to succeed. Since Bobby won’t actually sit anybody down.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this
Bob Journalist, I absolutely appreciate your sarcasm about me writing somthing positive! LMAO!
I promise you guys, I’ll do some brainstorming and come up with somthing!
By Woogidy
May 31, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this
No, my Bobby Cox jersey is not for sale!
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this
Nathan, man, you’re like the Energizer Bunny, you just keep going and going. Okay, Braves get wiped out Monday (or whatever day it was we got slapped 12-5). What should Bobby have said? “Reitsma stinks… AJ stinks… CJ stinks. We have no talent. Our players stink.”
What, exactly, would that have accomplished after a bad loss? You reduce any trade value for players you might want to move. You demoralize guys who are trying but not doing well… and you tell potential free agents that your manager will hang you out to dry.
Please, tell me, what would Bobby accomplish by trashing his players publicly?
By ncscoots
May 31, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this
hey, TP, I couldn’t even get THROUGH reading all the posts…sheesh, we got some tomes on here tonight, and I hardly know where to start for replying to some of them. The usual dump-LaRoche crowd is here (they haven’t checked his stats since the middle of April); nathan seems to think ballplayers aren’t really human, so they should NEVER make a mistake, not even if dog-tired and metally bushed (guess he never had a bad day at the office where he “underperformed”); bullpen-haters are out in force (does anybody really think the bullpen will have these same guys in July?!?); and the Langerhans-is-only-a-sub group has checked in (his thumb has been causing him problems, but he looks to be swinging the bat again this week). So, once again the concept of blogs as outlets for the truly clueless to spout nonsensical drivel is once again validated!
By nathan
May 31, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this
Joe simpson just said that ken ray has retired the first batter in an inning 21 of 25 times. That’s awesome! (1 positive comment)
If that’s not closer material, I’m not sure what is.
(I’ll actually quit right there without being negative, just for you guys!)
By eric the elder
May 31, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this
I almost think Bobby is getting in the faces of the bloggers. In a 9-3 mop up situation, he brings in the guy many of us think should be the closer. Maybe he’s afraid Reitsma wouldn’t be able to hold a 6-run lead.
By jennifer
May 31, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this
braves WIN
By MBATL
May 31, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this
Eric, maybe BC’s just giving Ray a chance to get comfortable closing out games… god, everything is in question, isn’t it?
Great job by Hudson tonight… big win!
By nathan
May 31, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this
nscoots……I have had a bad day at the “office” many times, and I’ve gotten my a$$ chewed for it. Even been fired once. Granted it was my second job and I was 17, but needless to say I learned my lesson.
And that’s my point exactly. If Langerhans has been hurt, than he should not be playing, maybe not even on the active roster. As a player you have to think of 24 other guys, not youself, swallow your pride and go on the DL.
hmmmmm 1-2-3 9th for Death Ray. Come on Bobby…..make the move!
and as far as the “dog tired comment” I did acknowledge the fact that it could all be part of the many road games they’ve played so far. I’ll get back to after this stretch of 30-40 games with a home heavy schedule are done & if it’s turned around I’ll acknowledge that and appoligize to all for my complaining. But only if you do the same if this kind of play continues.
By ncscoots
May 31, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this
Bobby COULD be just giving Death Ray a taste of what it’s like to get the final three outs of a game (hand-shaking, back-slapping, that good old-time feeling, etc.)…let’s temper our enthusiasm for the guy be remembering he hasn’t pitched in the big leagues in 7 years…SEVEN YEARS! Bobby is just not gonna wake up one morning and turn over the closer’s job to such a (relatively) unknown commodity. Death has got to get a little BC seasoning before he lands the job for good, assuming he keeps pitching lights out. And me, personally, I LOVE the guy, that changeup is just slimy filthy.
By Carroll
May 31, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this
An unknown commodity (i.e. Ray) beats the hell out of a known piece of garbage (i.e. Reeksma).
By nathan
May 31, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this
nscoots, you are probably right. I don’t remember how he brought Ligtenberg along, but I assume it was slowly just like this is. But he could at least bullpen by committee for God’s sake, he doen’t have to continue and punish us by throwing Reitsma out there every night.
By ncscoots
May 31, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this
nathan, dude, sorry, but I would have nothing to apologize for…I’ve taken no position which would need retraction, unless you count my opinion that ballplayers are human! The heat of competition at any level can lead to split-second decisions that may or may not be better thought of in hindsight, but that is foolish truck indeed IMHO. If the players you spoke of earlier in the blog consitently made the kind of mental errors you deemed so dreadful, that’s one thing, but they have not. I thought the level of anxiety about missing a cutoff man was just a wee bit overdone.
By ncscoots
May 31, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this
Carroll, you got me there. And, hey, nathan, here’s one thing I guess I CAN aplogize for…I’m one of the few who really thought Reitsma would turn it around sooner than later. I mean, the guy has three plus pitches, he should be just dominating with his stuff. But he’s not, and I freely admit that I was wrong in my assessment. How’s that? :-)
By jennifer
May 31, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this
hey everyone just be glad the Dan Kolb isnt with the braves anymore…. now he was a BAD closer for the braves…
By nathan
May 31, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this
nscoots, i’ll even admit you are correct about me taking a stance and you haven’t. So you really would not have to appologize.
But everybody keeps thinking I’m complaining about “missing” the cutoff man. Andruw didn’t “miss” the cutoff man. He flat out through straight to home without even having a chance to get the guy at the plate, unless he had a vision of him falling down rounding 3rd. LOL!
But like I said earlier, I’m over it. But you people keep bringing it back up! And obviously in a 12-5 game, missing or not throwing (whatever you want to call it) to the cutoff man doesn’t make much difference. But it’s that kind of stuff that causes you to lose 1 run games. And the Braves have always done EXTREMELY well in 1 run games during this 14 year run. So my complaining is just an extension of our 10 - 13 record in 1 run games. Those kind of mental errors cost teams 1 run games. My complaining about Bobby, is just me wonder why he’s tolerating people to continuously not doing the “little things” to help out. It’s not his style. It has always been a staple of his style (like it or hate it), Bobby’s teams don’t shoot themselves in the foot. They may get outplayed, but they do all of the small ball things to win. How many games in the last month have the Braves had a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, and failed to get that runner in? I don’t know the number exactly, but I do know that it’s way more often than I’m used to seeing it happen.
So you can call me uninformed, uneducated, obnoxious, whatever you like, but you’ll be hard press to call me wrong. When it comes to saying that doing the “little things” wins tight games. It has EVERYTHING to do with winning a 1 run game. Even more than having a dominant closer.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this
nscoots. I too was confident in the off season, that with the offseason to rest, Reitsma would be just fine as the closer. I was wrong as well. If only Bobby could see it!
You don’t need to appologize for that, thought. That was just being confident, optomistic and believing the hype that Bobby & JS fed us.
But you are right, there is ZERO reason for him to not be dominant. Lack of confidence, I guess.
By Bob, journalist
May 31, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this
MBATL, Thanks, the latest wave of storms have passed! Interestingly, these came out of the southeast which is unusual.
I totally agree with your “doghouse” comments … but, would have expected you to be a bit stronger. From what I understand, it’s easy to stay out … hard to get out.
By Woogidy
May 31, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this
nathan, langerhans was playing hurt b/c he saves a hit a day on defense. everyone seems to forget there are 2 sides to baseball, offense and defense, both of equal importance. This is also why Laroche plays all the time. Do you think it would be a huge upgrade if we got a guy hitting 30 points higher yet field 30 points lower? At 1b or lf.
By nathan
May 31, 2006 11:21 PM | Link to this
woogidy….i realize that there is 2 sides to baseball. But Diaz plays just as good defense.(not as good of range, but better arm) And he’s been knockin the ball all over the place. And if LaRoche was as good as everybody claims he is, the rest of the infield would have less errors.
By Bob, journalist
June 1, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this
Nathan,
Your repeatedly promising not to beat a dead horse takes me back to 1968 and our first trip to Southern California.
While there, my wife and I attended a luncheon where the featured speaker was Pat Paulsen … then running for President. His “speech” was a hoot, lasting only about 10 minutes and extremely well done! He then spent at least 30 minutes repeatedly telling us “uh, let me just add one last thing in closing, … ” and starting to sit down.
I always refer to that speech as his “Wolf” speech. He was very funny … but you couldn’t always be certain if he was kidding or being serious.
By David O'Brien
June 1, 2006 12:29 AM | Link to this
Bull, just glanced through the posts and saw yours about “who’s going to take LaRoche … and Chipper off our hands,” or words to that effect.
Don’t worry, because they’re not trying to trade LaRoche, and Chipper isn’t going to be traded for an inventory of reasons, beginning with the three years left on his contract and ending with his absolute no-trade protection, can veto any deal even if Braves were trying to trade him, which they aren’t. So… other than that, and fact LaRoche just had one of the two or three most productive months in May on the team … yeah, I can see where it’s time to figure out who’s going to come in exchange for those two.
I mean, seriously.
Oh, and don’t worry about bringing up Salty “real late,” so there’s no scouting report on him. Batting .204 or whatever he’s at now, no need to worry about an imminent callup.
By hoho
June 1, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this
sorry to ask an obvious one folks, but i never know with the old “designated for assignment” routine. was cormier actually released or just sent to the minors, or given 10 days to think about it? this is not a good decision in my opinion. he wasn’t pitching that bad (2 obvious stinking performances though). AND he was half of the trade for estrada. i think giving up on him this soon is really flushing the whole estrada deal down the tubes. what, do we have a stock pile of great releivers that we can just send cormier out. i think he would have helped. given what we gave up to get him i think we should have kept him around. i know that’s especially easy to say after seeing what his replacement (yates) did. so is cormier gone or just spending some time in richmond? great game tonight, way to pitch huddy.
By nathan
June 1, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this
DOB I realize it probably shouldn’t be expected of young guys. But didn’t Frenchy hit about 85 points higher than his AA batting average after his call up? Probably due to lack of “detailed” scouting reports, on the basis, that major league scouts weren’t watching him with the expectations of him getting called up. How else do you explain that it took a month for people not to throw him a strike early in the count?
Like i said, I assume that it wouldn’t happen this way all of the time. But, it kinda goes with that theory of the Braves ,most of the time doing poorly against a young/rookie pitcher they have never seen.
BTW. I realize I get a little off the wall sometimes, but that is the closest you have come to answering one of my questions. I appreciate it!
By nathan
June 1, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this
Bob, alway glad to help you bring back a good memory. Hope to keep ya laughing in the future!! :)
By Bob, journalist
June 1, 2006 01:15 AM | Link to this
hk,
Between my trip out of town, computer problems and the weather, I haven’t been to the blog much lately.
I don’t remember your earlier link … maybe it was before I realized that “here” was a link … stupid but true. The projections I made in previous years were based on models that considered each gmae, using projected pitching match ups … based on simple Monte Carlo methods.
How do you arrive at each player’s value and performance?
RobG, whoever he is … certainly took issue with one of my posts today … I really didn’t understand him but think that he thought my numbers were computer genreated “crap” … it’s much ado about nothing, but he may have actually been referring to your projection … thinking that it was mine.
By Bob, journalist
June 1, 2006 01:54 AM | Link to this
HoHo,
I’m just guessing but … I figure that Cormier is probably history … I saw where he had been optioned to Tucson (AAA) … a Diamondback farm club.
Earlier, I saw a TV screen trailer saying he refused to report … but, havent’t seen anything since … however, he isn’t shown on the current Tucson Sidewinder roster.
By Miles
June 1, 2006 02:17 AM | Link to this
Hudson was our pitcher of the month
4-1 2.77 ERA
Smoltz was pretty good too
3-0 3.19 ERA
Braves were 11-2 in May when either of those two were the starters.
By Head Coach
June 1, 2006 02:52 AM | Link to this
Interesting developments in the front office isnt it ? I would want Braves front office personnel to run my Baseball team too. Well , fully one third of the season is done and its time to let the FAT LADY SING……. so here she goes. 28 wins 25 losses , not bad unless you consider we are 13-3 against teams with a losing record and 15-22 against teams with a winning record.There are 6 teams in the N.L with as good a record or better than Atlanta. 109 games left with 62 against winners and 47 against losers , not good , not good at all. This is a very good but inconsistent team . They lack speed , Giles leads the team with 6 stolen bases and they strike out way to much. Giles is not a viable leadoff man and journalist Bob with his stats prettty much explained why earlier in this blog. The starting pitching is solid and getting better. The bullpen , hot and cold , they need a closer to solidify things. Ken Ray has the mentality of a bulldog , he goes right at the hitters throwing strikes and with a 95-96 mile an hour fastball and change up , he has been lights out . Cox needs to give him the job , period. This team lives and dies with the long ball , they have not hit and run at all , played small ball enough or stolen enough bases. Bobby ball is the norm once again and Im not in the least bit suprised , the man is totally predictable. The bench is solid but Betemit doesnt belong there. Chippers fifth HR doesnt impress me one bit , he is banged up and it shows. I really enjoy watching McCann and Francoeur play , they are two awesome talents. I said all that to say this. Unless JS pulls a rabbit out of his hat with a trade or two , this team isnt going to the playoffs. The Mets are for real and they are a much better team at this point in the season. The braves as it stands right now will finish with a winning record , but it will be in second or third place. JS needs to add personnel or this teams division streak is over. Okay , I just lit a firestorm , let her burn guys.
By Miles
June 1, 2006 03:25 AM | Link to this
HC, we’ve played the fewest home games in the league and yet the Braves are still 3 games above .500. Also take into account that the Braves have had an NL high 25 save opportunities so far this season….and blown 13 of them! Get the closer fixed and then the team is essentially fixed…at least for the regular season.
The high strikeout counts from our hitters is a disturbing trend which will no doubt kill us in the postseason…but for the regular season the team will be able to overcome it. I think you forget that the Braves are currently 2nd in the NL in runs scored.
As for Chipper, he’s just turning into more of a gap hitter. As long as he keeps that OBP in the .400 range then we will be fine.
And Giles is doing just fine in the lead-off role. He’s definetly lost some bat speed but this past Month he batted .277 with a .358 OBP….he’s getting on base at a much better rate than Furcal ever did as Brave save for his rookie season in 2000.
LaRoche had .900+ OPS in May which is nothing short of amazing considering his previous stats. He’s probably going to keep hitting in the .250-.260 range but will finished with 25+ homeruns and 80+ RBI’s.
Andruw is currently on pace for another monster year. 40+ homeruns and 160+ RBI’s! Not to mention his OPS, OBP and and BA are all better than last season.
By Carroll
June 1, 2006 07:36 AM | Link to this
DOB: in regards to LaROche, as soon as he turns “a great May” into “a great season”, then he has turned the corner and we’ll all stop asking for him to be traded, released, etc. But for now, there’s just too many mental errors and lack-of-hustle mistakes (both of which are 100% preventable) to make up for the decent numbers he’s been putting up.
And why on earth was Cormier sent down, and is it true that he won’t report to AAA? I mean, he’s been one of our best relievers so far, and he gets the axe?! Reeksma’s been clowning it up for the better part of three years and he gets a promotion to closer and a huge raise. But Cormier gets the axe after throwing 3 innings of one-run ball?! Utterly maddening.
By braves fan
June 1, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this
Dayton Moore was a valuable asset for the Braves, and he will be missed by the organization. But let’s remember the facts. The Braves started this run in 1991, which means the home grown players that made the start of the run possible were drafted and developed in the late ’80s. Guys like Glavine, Gant, Justice, Avery, and Smoltz (traded for from Detroit in ‘89) got it started. The guys who eventually helped push the Braves to the World Series win in 1995, Chipper Jones, Javy Lopez, Klesko, Wohlers were drated and developed in the early ’90s. If I read correctly, Moore came to the Braves in 1994 and didn’t rise to be assistant G.M. until 2002. So even if Moore made an impact on day one of his tenure here, the Braves had already established themselves as a top rated franchise. And the guys most responsible for the beginning of the run, Bobby Cox first as the G.M. then as the manager and John Schuerholtz are still here. And remember the Braves stopped sucking and the Royals started sucking at the same time. When John S. was hired by Atlanta. So when those two guys retire, I fear no one will be able to replace them, no matter the amount of grooming by the masters.
By ssiscribe
June 1, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
Dayton Moore has been, for the past several years, one of the most sought-after people in all of baseball. It only was a matter of time before he left, and for his career development, he needs to go someplace and put his stamp on a franchise.
He’ll have plenty to do in K.C., but it’s a good opportunity for him to go in and try to build something.
Certainly, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that he could return to Atlanta one day as GM. I don’t think Schuerholz is going to stay five more years, but it could happen if his health remains good and the desire is still there (I don’t doubt the desire one bit; it’ll be there when he’s 80). I will say if the Braves win another World Series, Schuerholz and Cox will retire right then.
Don’t fret if Moore doesn’t become the next Braves’ GM. When Schuerholz steps down, the Braves’ GM job will draw plenty of big names and successful candidates. Same when Cox leaves. Those jobs are sought after by just about everybody in the biz; Braves will have no trouble filling those posts.
Down on the field, good game last night. Hope people are done whining about Hudson and, for what it’s worth, that trade rumor started in New York about Huddy being traded if the Braves are out of contention in July is about as worthwhile as a $100 Confederate bill. First of all, when was the last time the Braves were out of contention in July? 1990 (some would say 1993, and the Braves still won the West that year). Hudson just finished a month where he looked like an All-Star (4-1, 2.77 ERA, good control). No way that dude’s leaving, so stop worrying about that.
Why is everybody still on LaRoche? Dude is hitting about as well as anybody in the lineup. He’s not Albert Pujols, but who is? Great to see Giles hitting and getting on base; here’s that hot streak I’ve been saying would come sooner or later. He’s streaky by nature.
All in all, a good month, save McCann getting hurt and the closer woes. For now, it’s gotta be Ken Ray in the ninth, in my opinion. Reitsma just finished a month of Kolbian proportions; you can’t run that guy out there with the game on the line.
And DOB, what’s the deal with Cormier? Some talk out there on the blog about he won’t report to the minors, but I haven’t seen a story anywhere about it. I still think he can help this team.
Later on.
By ssiscribe
June 1, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
Couple of numbers to throw out there as I leave, since I made the statement that Reitsma had a Kolb-like month. Consider:
May 2006 Reitsma: 1-1, 7.30 ERA, 13 games, 12.1 IP, 17 H, 10 ER,4 BB, 8 K
April 2005 Kolb 1-2, 7.20 ERA, 11 games, 10 IP, 11 H, 8 ER, 8 BB, 5K
Yep, pretty fair statement, I’d say.
For what it’s worth, here’s Sting Ray’s stax for May:
Ray 0-0, 0.56 ERA, 16 games, 16 IP, 8 H, 1 ER, 4 BB, 9 K
By dylan
June 1, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
Head coach have you ever stopped to think that maybe Chipper isnt beat up and that his drop in production has more to do with his age? Chipper is 34 now the average baseball players prime is 28-31 after that most players numbers start to tail off. Look at Chippers OPS over the last 3 years start in 03 .919 04-.847 05-.968. compared to his 4 seasons before that where his lowest was .971 it looks to me like he has been in decline the only thing that doesnt fit is last years numbers but they are skewed a bit since he missed so many games I would bet with similiar amounts of AB’s he would have put up an OPS. somewhere around .900 mark. Now for all the people that want to trade him I should point out that any player putting up a .900 OPS is not only a servicable major leaguer but is amongst the top hitters in the league.
By Dirty Dawg
June 1, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
When will we realize and acknowledge that the Braves have had the success we’ve had because they, under Scheurholz and Cox - and starting with the right support of Ted Turner - have built a marvelous organization. A thriving organization - corporation, club, university, you name it - recognizes that it’s life blood is to get and keep good, smart people…along with good ball-players.
Watching and reading about John Scheurholz over the years, I’m reminded of an story told about David Ogilvy - a famously successful advertising copywriter, founder of a successful agency and one of the few icons of the business. Mr. Ogilvy used to use a set of Russian nesting dolls in his office to illustrate his philosophy of hiring people and building a successful organization. He would take them apart and put them back together - first starting from large to small with the message that ‘if we hire people that are smaller than ourselves we will soon become a company of midgets’…followed by putting them back together - small to large - saying, ‘whereas if we hire people that a larger than ourselves, we will become a company of giants’. It would appear to me that John Scheurholz ‘gets it’…and so does Bobby. Some time back, one of your writers observed that one of, if not, THE key to Cox’s success is that he runs a great clubhouse - and everything that that means to producing a winning club and fitting into the philosophy of a growing and thriving organization.
Some fifteen years ago, late in the first year of this wonderful streak, I was introducing someone to a group of volunteers for a pep-talk, and included a line about him being ‘another long-suffering Braves fan that was enjoying baseball in September for the first time in a way too long time.’ Thinking back on that has given me a perspective that has seen me though any of the short-lived dissappointments of ‘not winning it all’, namely, that the first goal of an athletic team is to provide enjoyment for their fans, ‘cause if it ain’t fun, they ain’t coming back’…and this baseball team has been providing us fans the greatest run of fun ever. Every year we’re in a pennant race…every year we can enjoy baseball in September AND October…and sometimes November…again.
Thanks John and Bobby, and the rest of the organization, for that.
Now, why in blazes can’t we get Wilson Betemit into the everyday line-up? I’ve got it…move Renteria to the right side and platoon him with Giles and LaRoche. He’s - Renteria - really not the SS he once was. No longer has the range or the arm for it, but we need him in the game…Betemit or Renteria could lead off…and…well, just thought I’d add that to an already too-long piece.
By Bull
June 1, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this
DOB, that was Nathan that wanted to unload Chipper and LaRoche.
By Jim
June 1, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
I was perplexed and upset to see that Cormier was sent down to Richmond to bring up Yates. The only way that the move mad any sense to me was that Cormier had just pitched 4 innings the day before and would be unavailable for 3 or 4 more days and that with the bullpen recently overworked by Smoltz’s injury and the 9th inning Reitsma implosion in Chicago plus Monday’s job by Thompson that this was just a temporary swap and Cormier would be back ASAP. Is this the case, or was Cormier truly demoted?
By Kentavo
June 1, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this
The Jones boys are why you cannot write off this team. If (and I know it’s a kinda big if) both can get clicking and stay healthy, they are a 1-2 punch that is hard to beat.
Of course, the bullpen still sux.
By Hal
June 1, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
woogidy……….they only think about defence when a person overthrows a cut off man or fails to cover first etc the rest of the time people on this blog forget to watch that part of the game !a good reason larouche is hated on here and chipper is lauded and AJ is given no where close to the credit he deserves its going to be humorous if AJ ever gets to go free agent ….watch the we cant lose him then comments ! for now hes just another center fielder driving in ohhh 120 runs a year and saving another 1oo just another guy who needs him
By bravesfansince66
June 1, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this
LOVE these blogs. Read ‘em daily, comment only occasionally. Journalist Jimmy and Carolina Lady, you guys are awesome. I have more fun reading your responses more so than just about anything else! My observation about the blogs, in general, is that we’re all hoping for better out of this team. But I doubt there are enough major changes that can be made during season to do anything more than another division title. Winning is great, but maybe a non-playoff year or two will convince ownership that more changes ($$) need to be made, rather than in-season tinkering. I think that a lot of folks believe that BC and JS can work magic with whatever they’re given. That’s been true recently, but it’s starting to catch up. DOB, love your active participation in the blog. Good stuff. Keep it up!!!
By David O'Brien
June 1, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
Bull, sorry about the mistake.
By Rooster
June 1, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this
I have an idea to fix the bullpen, aquire Joe Nathan from Minnesota to be our closer and Salamon Torres from Pittsburgh to help shore up the bullsh**pen. Finally in the trade with Torres get Craig Wilson to play first. C-ya Adam and Chris. What do you guys think. Go BRAVES!!!!
By Dubya Cubed
June 1, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
Hello Again Everyone.
I’ve been traveling a ton over the last month and haven’t blogged in weeks. Wow, a lot has changed in May. The team is starting to come together - the way it seems to do every year.
One big problem left now (which I had down pretty far on my list of things to be fixed after April), the bull($hitty)pen. I just hope that last night was Bobby’s way of easing the Death Ray into the closer spot. That’d be a good start to correcting things.
Kudos to Bobby for sticking with Sosa and Francouer. He all hated those guys in April. Giles is starting to hit. ADDam is starting to hit. Hopefully, Langerhans’ hand is better.
Other issue: Mental mistakes. We are just not good enough to cover up all the mistakes the way we did in the mid to late 90’s. We have got to cut out all these dumb things that cost us outs and/or bases.
Keep the faith. Time for the June Bloom to begin. Time to catch the Mutts and bury the Phills.
By Jim J
June 1, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
The Mets are in front and still making moves to get better. Alright, Shurhold, now would be the time to get some help for the bullpen. Why do we continue to sit and watch Reeksma pout to the mound and blow ballgames, with Betemit, Orr, Diaz, Salty, and several other players who could be starters on other teams just sit there? Throw 3 Second Delay into a package and call up Jurries. Jordan can hold down the fort as well as LaRoche is doing now. Package LaRoche, Giles, Renteria, and Sosa for some real firepower in the pen. Then we could have Betemit at short and either Orr or Pena at second, a true leadoff hitter, and some fire in the clubhouse like last year. Come on Shurhold, get some help.
July-October Lineup Orr(Pena) 2B Betemit SS Jones 3B Jones CF McCann C Francouer RF Jurries 1B LangerhansLF
By Carolina Lady
June 1, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
Wow, some great posts this morning! A pleasure to read!
journalist jimmy smith, you are to skip the next paragraph, please.
bravesfansince66, you are too kind but I sincerely appreciate your compliment and you have brightened my day considerably! Our journalist jimmy smith is a terrific writer, don’t you think? I highly esteem such wit, humor and imagination!
journalist jimmy smith, thank you for your always-kind words to this lady! (Yes, as you surmise, I have little tolerance for meaness towards anyone.) Ummm, jimmy, about the Cape Buffalo…….how well do they get along with hartebeests?? Deer? Raccoons, ‘possums, squirrels, cats, dogs, ME?? I was somewhat successful in passing off the Hartebeest as a new exotic cow to the authorities, so let’s hope it won’t be necessary to call your other cousin for further shipments (chuckle-snort-grin)!
Baby Seal, I’m a poor substitute for the other lady from NC whom you met at the game, but here’s a BIG hug for you!
Was thinking about what it might be like to have a microphone stuck in your face and being barraged with questions all the time, some of which were probably pretty dumb. Add some TV cameras and lights. I’m thinking that my brain would probably seize up and any intelligent response I might otherwise be able to give would be hopelessly lost in uncomfortable nervousness. Especially if I was trying to keep my comments within certain parameters.
Two sisters, one blonde and one brunette, inherit the family ranch. Unfortunately,
after just a few years, they are in financial trouble. In order to keep the bank from repossessing the ranch, they need to purchase a bull so that they can breed their own stock. Upon leaving, the brunette tells her sister, “When I get there, if I
decide to buy the bull, I’ll contact you to drive out after me and haul it home.”
The brunette arrives at the man’s ranch, inspects the bull, and decides she wants
to buy it. The man tells her that he will sell it for $599, no less. After paying him, she drives to the nearest town to send her sister a telegram to tell her the news. She walks into the telegraph office, and says, “I want to send a telegram to my
sister telling her that I’ve bought a bull for our ranch. I need her to hitch the trailer to our pickup truck and drive out here so we can haul it home.”
The telegraph operator explains that he’ll be glad to help her, then adds, “It’s just 99 cents a word.”
Well, after paying for the bull, the brunette only has $1 left. She realizes that she’ll only be able to send her sister one word.
After a few minutes of thinking, she nods and says, “I want you to send her the
word “comfortable.”
The operator shakes his head. “How is she ever going to know that you want her
to do all that from just the word “comfortable?”
The brunette explains, “My sister’s blonde and the word’s big. She’ll read it very slowly … com-for-da-bul.”
Bet Cormier is saying, “Comfortable!!”
By P'Cola Michael
June 1, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this
Miles, you’re right that we are overlooking the fact that we are 2nd in runs, but, keep in mind, that is now what winning teams are made of. See the current Yankees and recent Texas Rangers teams…running it up on people 12-3 and such is where these types of stats can be very misleading.
Personally, I would rather be a middle of the road team and score 4-6 consistently and throw in some 4-2, 6-3 games…that is where historically our success has been.
Go Bravos
By Nocahoma
June 1, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
Unless he wins at least 15 games this season, I do not see John Smoltz in a Braves uniform in 2007.
I know people w/Liberty Media and they aren’t going to spend more than Time Warner has, and will probably pare payroll. I’d expect to see John Schuerholz either retire or takeover the commissioner’s job from Bud Selig.
Hopefully it will fall through and Arthur Blank will come through for us.
By Bob, journalist
June 1, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
David O’Brien,
I’m pretty sure that you saw the post by someone posing as the Carolina Lady, directed by inference to Jimmy Smith. It’s probably the latest example of “Blog Identity Theft” abuse on the Blog.
In case you missed it:
**May 31, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this
Jimmy, where are you? Last night was wonderful.**
To the occassional visitor to the site, that may appear to be harmless vulgar humor … if there is such a thing … but some of us feel strongly that such abuse is despicable, intended to be harmful, and shouldn’t be tollerated; especially when it is directed at someone so nice and well respected as the Carolina Lady!
Since the AJC Blogs do not require unique active “Blog Identities”, what would you suggest as being the appropriate procedure to follow … for those who would like action to be taken so as to eliminate such abuse?
I’m confident that neither AJC nor you want or condone such abuse on Blogs with which your names are so closely identified.
David, I think it would be helpful if you would share your opinion regarding this issue … since so many respect and follow your lead on such matters.
By P'Cola Michael
June 1, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady,
Thanks for the joke! Oddly enough, an associate of mine was looking for a new “clean” joke for a meeting in the morning….hope you don’t mind if I borrow yours! :)
By Joe Roman
June 1, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
DOB! A very well-observed and even tempered column. Thanks. By contrast, Mark Bradley moved into full kneejerk Nervous Nelly mode. Excellent point about Frank Wren vs Angelos and Sons. I live in Baltimore, and after a few years at the helm in Kansas City, Dayton Moore will have rendered the Orioles the worse franchise in the AL by default. The natives here are really bummed. It’s seemed obvious that working in John Scheurholz’s front office is the baseball equivalent of Harvard Business School. For those of you who think the sky is falling, do you really think J.S. will replace Moore with some guy from this blog?
By Carolina Lady
June 1, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
Hi, P’Cola Michael! The joke was given to me, so I give it to you! Enjoy!
By Chop Chop
June 1, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
I think Cormier was sent down to the minors because of the number of walks he was giving up. In 20 innings pitched this year, Cormier gave up 17. When you walk almost twice as many as you strike out (9), a team is going to look to replace you. Since Yates has been striking guys out at Richmond, I guess Schuerholz and Cox felt that he couldn’t do any worse than Cormier has done. Whether he can do better or not? Well, that’s up to Yates. Bobby threw him into the fire Tuesday night and Yates put out the fire…with an explosion. Since I’m a patient Braves fan, I’ll give Yates one more mulligan. If he screws up after that, he’s dead to me. Dead to me, I tells ya.
I’m kidding.
By Carolina Lady
June 1, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
P’Cola Michael, there may be something here that will be helpful to your colleague. Just a thought. :-)
By Voice of Reason
June 1, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
Two questions for my compadres on this blog:
First, a historical question: There was a season in the 90’s when the ‘pen blew chunks, and our esteemed GM called up 3 or 4 pitchers together from Richmond and made a mass change in the horrid ‘pen. What year was that, and who were the pitchers? (Was Chad Fox one of them?) I can’t remember, but I remember that the ‘pen responded and the youngsters did a better job than the crappy assemblage of veterans. Sound familiar?
Second, a few ifs: I have read that Davies is on track to return somewhere around the all-star break. If he returns on time, and if HoRa continues to perform, and if Sosa has finally figured it out, who’s the odd man out? Will we once again be talking about trading Thomson?
BTW - I read yesterday that John Foster has had a miraculous healing, and that he no longer needs surgery. Does that have legs? Anybody else see that?
OK, that’s 3 questions… I got excited…
By Chop Chop
June 1, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
Joe Roman, if Schuerholz calls me up to replace Dayton Moore, I’ll be available in a day or two. Also, if I get the big promotion from this blog, I have some demands/requests:
1) I want to be able to post my name in bold type on the AJC Braves blogs. You know, to show how important I iz.
2) I want Lemonheads and Mini Chewy Sweettarts (no green apple ones) waiting for me at every hotel room I grace with my illustrious presence. I am a star and deserve to be treated as such. After all, being an assistant GM-type is like living the life of a bleepin’ rock star. Ain’t that right, DOB?
3) I want full immunity from any charges that might be levied against me on this blog. After all, my fellow bloggers would hate my newfound power. To them, I say, “Don’t hate the playa. Hate the game.”
4) I want to be the guy that gets credit for discovering the greatest pitching coach of all-time, Chris Reitsma. As the saying goes: “Those who can’t do, teach.”
and lastly…
5) I want LeTwan’s mama to cater our meetings. Chop Chop likey da pie.
By student
June 1, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
Jim J did you hit your head. Thats the stupidest thing I’ve read on here yet. Orr? Do you watch braves games? He’s a useful guy to have out there, great speed, can play a couple of different positions, but he can’t really hit and he’s not a starter. Giles is coming around if you would start paying attention. And am I reading your “lineup” right. You would like to trade Renteria? He’s hitting over .320! Salty by the way is hitting barely over the Mendoza line at AA, and the idea that we ought to trade a third of our starting lineup including our most consistent hitter for some “fire in the bullpen,” is hilarious. Seriously, if you can’t do better than this maybe you should stick to screwing up your fantasy team and at least let people on here suggest outlandish trades that make a little more sense. We are 3 games over .500, the sky isn’t falling quite yet and even if it was this would be a pretty stupid way to overhaul the team.
People don’t seem to understand that you can get a couple of pieces to help a team but if you want to compete you can’t do it by entirely overhauling the team in the middle of the year. Last year seems to have given the wrong idea to a lot of people because we finished with a pretty different lineup than we started with and it ended up working out very well. You have to understand how much of an aberration that was. First of all the Braves were forced into making those moves. It became very clear that Jordan and Mondesi were just not healthy and capable of starting every day, Chipper got hurt and then later Estrada got knocked out and was never right again that year. Normally this would have been a disaster but it just so happened that we had a group of players in the minors who were ready a little earlier than expected, 3 of these guys ended up being major league starters and the others did well as fill ins, but that was an abberation. We can’t just fix any problem by throwing a couple of minor leaguers at it. There maybe a couple of guys down there who could help if we needed it, but I don’t see us getting any new starters from the minors this year. Also notice that in the case of Jordan and Mondesi these were guys at the tail end of their careers. Giles is a guy in the middle of his career who is having a tough first third of the season, a little more patience is warranted. I can’t believe I wrote this much in response to that terrible post; a sure sign I’m procrastinating.
By Ivan Boesky
June 1, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
To all those who think that Tim Hudson is untouchable, think again. Liberty Media is exchanging $1.8 BILLION of Time Warner stock for the Braves and $1.35 BILLION. Liberty Media saves $500 MILLION in taxes. Liberty cannot flip the Braves too quickly because it would loose its tax break - think 5 years for a chance to suck the life out of this franchise.
So where does Tim Hudson come into this? Right where Rupert Murdock comes in. Actually, its where Rupert’s minions leave. You see, Liberty also wants to own Fox’s FSN and TurnerSouth, or else owning the Braves makes no sense. They have until May of next year to consumate the deal in order to recieve similar tax breaks.
If the transfer of ownership goes through and Liberty owns the Braves before the July trading deadline, Liberty will know whether or not the deal with Fox will go through. That’s where things get fuzzy.
If the deal goes through, Liberty could concievably improve conditions for Braves fans. The new owners might possibly be influenced to spend more money to drive up ratings and profits of their regional networks. They could eventually control all of the broadcasting rights of the Braves, maybe even start their own national “network” (the Liberty Network, maybe).
Liberty could also keep things the way they are. No increase in payroll. No new pricey closer. But Chipper, Andruw, Huddy, and Renteria stay put.
But, if the Braves’ payroll gets in the way of profitability, who knows what Liberty might do? A payroll purge of Marlin proportions might be in the wings because the status quo is losing money.
One would think that MLB might see the ramificaions of what this does to the integrity of the game: Tax benefits outweigh love and passion for the game that a legitimate candidate for franchise ownership might possess. Its not likely, though. MLB is already bought and paid for by TV money.
Maybe all Braves fans should contact their congressmen. Its known that Cynthia McKinney has no love for Emperor Bush or his Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 - A tax law that allows a corporate entity to avoid $500 million in taxes and possibly destroy a franchise that millions love. She and others might jump at the chance to give Bush a black eye and kick Bud Selig’s A$$.
By Bob, journalist
June 1, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this
Voice Of Reason,
Is this AJC Report what you saw regarding John Foster?
**John Foster (elbow) threw a 10 minute batting practice session prior to Tuesday’s game.
“He threw good,” manager Bobby Cox said. “But we’ll have to see how he feels tomorrow. That’s what we really need to watch. He’s not close yet.”
Foster could return to the Braves’ bullpen by late June.**
Any idea as to how he felt yesterday?
By nathan
June 1, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
DOB & bull,
I dont want to show LaRoche or Chipper the door!
I will stand by the thought that LaRoche should be platooned, and lower in the order. Langerhans & or Diaz when in the lineup shoulbe bat in the 5 hole until McCann comes back. Langerhans, in my opinion is a better “hitter” than LaRoche, even though his stas don’t show it. But, somebody did rip on me the other day, saying he’s been hurt. So hopefully he’s healthy now, and when he’s on his game, he seems to take the pitch where it’s thrown and make more contact. Also, LaRoche’s baserunning ability/speed probably costs us some runs when he’s on base and can’t score from 1st on doubles or second on hard hit single.
As for Chipper, in no way do I want to show him the door. I was just pointing out that if we were to fall out of the race (very much of a possibility) why not trade him, since he is one of the few tradeable commodities we have on the roster? If Dale Murphy & David Justice can get traded, why not Chipper. Plus the way I see it, unless Liberty Media is going to open up the checkbook for JS to pull a Steinbrenner and just start signing and trading for every high priced superstar available, we can’t continue have 3 or 4 players taking up 50 - 70 percent of our 80 million dollar payroll. Especially with what we are on the hook for with Hampton next year. Do you really think he is tradeable? I’m assuming he’s here till that contract runs out.
As for Andruw, he is young enough to still build the team around. But, everybody keeps talking about how many runs a game that Francoeur and Langerhans save in the outfield as well, so is that far of a reach to think they couldn’t play CF if we lose Andruw to free agency? I’d rather have 7 - 10 “B” level (kind of how Andruws numbers were until last year, 25 - 35 homers & around 100 RBI), than 2 or 3 “superstars” taking up payroll and no consistant/reliable players around them to help out.
I live up north, and while I’m not even close to an NBA fan, when I do pay attention, I consider myself a Timberwolves fan. They are in the same boat with Garnett. Sure he is one of the NBA’s top 5 players, but they can’t afford to “buy” him any help, so to me it’s an uphill, losing battle. They might as well trade him and start over. As much as I wouldn’t want them to do it, it might be the best thing. Look what the mariners did the first couple of years after they “dumped” Randy, Jr and Arod! If done correctly (and everybody praises Bobby & JS to death). Are you saying that JS couldn’t put together a good team that’s capable of playing “competitive” ball without any superstars. I think he’s done his best work in the last two years with the “restraints” on the budget. You can’t always hit a “homerun” and get the career seasons out of castoffs like JD Drew, but JS seems to have a knack at knowing who’s about to break out. I won’t hold Dan Kolb against him, nobody saw that coming.
Anyways, maybe I ramble on too much, but read a little before you put words in my mouth. I’d appreciate it.
By Voice of Reason
June 1, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
No, Bob, that was not the report I read, and I can’t remember where I read it… (I’m an information junkie and read stuff from all over…) The account that I read, though, had a quote from Foster where he basically said that the elbow suddenly began feeling better a couple of weeks ago, that he has started throwing, and that he expects to pitch again around mid-season.
By Joe Roman
June 1, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
Funny stuff, chop chop. I think the Braves have yet another closer from nowhere in Ken Ray. People can say all they want about velocity. Ray has some of the nastiest breaking stuff happening this season……….and HE THROWS STRIKES. Let’s hope it lasts.
By Voice of Reason
June 1, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this
Ah… From Mark Bowman at MLB.com:
Foster encouraged: *Left-handed reliever threw approximately 40 pitches in a simulated game on Tuesday afternoon and came away even more confident that he won’t need surgery to repair his once ailing left elbow.
“That’s the last thing on my mind until my arm tells me otherwise,” Foster said. “I’m thinking I’m going to come back and be 100 percent. Surgery isn’t in my mind right now.”
Before things dramatically improved the past three weeks, Foster, who hasn’t pitched in a game since March 7, was burdened with the belief he needed season-ending surgery. Now he’s pushing himself with maximum effort and believing he could be back in the Atlanta bullpen some time in June.
“It felt good today,” Foster said. “It felt real good.”*
By student
June 1, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this
I can’t remember a contending team being taken apart at the trade deadline. If nothing else I think the press would be too bad. I also as I’ve said before just don’t agree with Nathan that its very likely the Braves will be out of contention by the trade deadline. We are 3 games over .500, 4.5 out of the division lead and only 2 behind for the wild card. If we are gone by then, you can come here and gloat, but I very much doubt thats going to happen.
I would be inclined to say that the concerns with Liberty start next year, but it isn’t yet clear what their approach to the team will be.
By nathan
June 1, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
student, i agree with you, i don’t think (hoping more like it) that we will not be out of the race by then. But think about it, an injury to andruw, mccan being out longer than expected, or smoltz’s are blowing out (his workload scares me), if any of those things happen, we are probably done for. though weirder things have happened. i think the biggest factor in all of it in the offseason, is hampton. that’s an aweful lot of money to be paing for him. i forget the number exactly, but isn’t it about 15 million?
i’ll repeat it again, i’m not hoping to have to “firesale”, but if we do, the most likely candidates are Chipper, Giles, Smoltz and Hudson. Why would we trade Horacio, Sosa or Thomson when they literally aren’t costing that much?
By Voice of Reason
June 1, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
As to Liberty, who would acquire an asset with the intent of flipping it as soon as the tax laws allow, yet devalue it in the interim? That makes no sense. If nothing else, expect the status quo - another 4-5 year holding pattern until (hopefully) real ownership comes aboard. And if Liberty truly wants the networks and the sports programming to go along, why jettison the stars, the drawing power? Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see it hap’nin’…
By ssiscribe
June 1, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
Is it just me, or do I sense that some people out there would like to completely rip apart the Braves’ roster and start from scratch?
Pete Orr hitting leadoff? Dealing Renteria? Sitting down or shipping out LaRoche? Hudson on the market? Let Andruw leave as a free agent? Call up Salty and his buck-ninety-eight average in the Southern League and let him learn to play first base in the middle of a pennant race?
With all due respect, a lineup starting Orr, Betemit and Jurries isn’t anywhere near as strong as a lineup starting Giles, Renteria and LaRoche. Jurries should’ve made the team coming out of The Evil Empire in March. I know LaRoche doesn’t breathe fire and break bats over his leg, but the guy is talented and, if you haven’t noticed, he has been hitting the ball the past four weeks.
Betemit is good enough to start for 25 teams in the majors, but having him to spell Chipper at third base and to come in off the bench in the late innings is a real plus. Dude has come up with some clutch hits off the bench. Orr has good speed and is a good pinch runner. You need a good bench to win, and the Braves have a good bench with Orr and Betemit starting the game on the pine.
As for Renteria, man, anybody who wants that guy traded isn’t watching the same game the rest of us are. He’s a player, man. Very few hitters in baseball get more out of their ABs than Edgar. And, he’s a winner, with big-game experience (he WON a World Series with a base hit, for crying out loud).
Most of us on here realize it’s a marathon, not a sprint. Tearing apart a team on June 1 that is 4 1/2 games out is borderline ridicilous. This team isn’t falling out of contention. The sky isn’t falling. Relax and enjoy the ride, people.
By MBATL
June 1, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
Orr has actually been very successful as a PH, too… just doesn’t seem to hit when he starts.
I don’t want to dismantle the team… that’s for losers, IMO.
However, the one thing I would consider is moving Hudson AFTER this season; he’s pretty affordable this year and next, at $4 and $6 mil, but jumps to $13 mil in ‘08 and ‘09; Kind of “hampton-esq”, to me, and we might find a good taker after this year, when he’s still got one cheap year remaining.
Anyway… don’t jump me… not advocating dumping him this year, and I’m not down on him…
By Carolina Lady
June 1, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
ssiscribe, I absolutely love your posts! Always look for them.
The key word is in the first sentence of your post above: “SOME”.
Lots of folks who like baseball have computers and like to blog, but don’t really understand the game. Some of the “trades” and moves I’ve seen posted are suggestive of trading a wooden nickel for a new car. It just ain’t happenin’! :-)
Keep posting! Your views are refreshing!
By Voice of Reason
June 1, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
I believe that this team is capable of putting together a run as long as JS addresses the obvious bullpen woes, which he almost assuredly will. The only question I have is to what degree is help available? There aren’t any obvious solutions, outside of divine intervention, and I haven’t seen any evidence that God’s a Braves fan. Let’s remember, however, that JS did pull a Farnsworth out of his nether regions last year, so the precedent is there. (OK, that visual was kinda creepy…) Anyway, I’m sure something will happen eventually that we can all wail and gnash our teeth about.
By Carolina Lady
June 1, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
Jimmy, I can’t hold a candle to you and Baby Seal but the sweet words are read with a big smile! :-)) I loved that joke! I 100% agree re: Cape Buffalo! I’m a capable person, but I’m the first to admit that that would be a bit too much for me to handle! :-))) A bazooka to kill a fly is over-doing it!