AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > January > 16 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USCloser market dries up
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
And then there were none. With Danys Baez traded to the Dodgers there are no available closers, at least none we know of, for the Braves to sign or trade for before opening day.
That could change, of course. A team could decide during spring training that it has a glaring weakness in one area and enough of a bullpen surplus to trade an arm in order to fill that other need. The Dodgers, for instance, might decide that Eric Gagne’s elbow looks fine this spring and that they don’t need to pay Baez $4 mill for the former Tampa Bay closer to be a setup man for the $10 mill man Gagne. It could happen. Remember, it’s the Dodgers. Anything can happen at Chavez Ravine, and usually does.
But for now, the Braves will apparently make do with what they have, which is a proven setup man and sometimes-closer, Chris Reitsma, and a supporting cast that’s got lots of potential but little proven ability.
That said, let’s get to the important stuff: “Walk the Line” — best movie of the year? I think it was the most entertaining, being a huge Cash fan since before it became trendy to be one, and also being madly in love with Reese Witherspoon. (Wait, The 40-Year-Old Virgin was also highly entertaining, and the funniest movie in several years. And Hustle & Flow was damn entertaining, as well). But for best picture, I’d have to say the Oscar should go to Munich. Awesome movie. Best Spielberg movie EVER, and that’s saying plenty.
Most underrated and overlooked movie of the year? Easy — “Cinderella Man”. If you haven’t seen it, rent it today. Run, don’t walk, to Blockbuster (better yet, drive there). And while you’re there, rent Murderball. Also an incredible movie that I somehow let leave the theaters before I saw it last year. Forget any preconceived notions you may have about Murderball _ it’s just riveting, start to finish. And as for Cinderella Man, I’d have to put it with Raging Bull, Rocky and Million Dollar Baby as the best boxing movies of all time. And seriously, Cinderella Man might just be better than all of them. Even if you don’t like Russell Crowe, you will love this movie. And if you don’t, I’ll refund your rental charge (and if you believe that, I’ve got a couple of Falcons NFC championship game tickets I’d like to sell you).
OK, alright, back to the regularly scheduled blog.
Ultimately, this matter could be the deciding factor for the Braves. The bullpen could be the difference-maker in whether or not they win their 15th consecutive division title by fending off the newly fortified Mets and the somewhat renovated Phillies. Because if the Braves blow a bunch of saves early, like they did at the beginning of last season during Dan Kolb’s excruciating tenure as closer, there is the potential to fall behind in a division race that the Mets might finally be capable of winning going away. Repeat, might.
I still believe the Mets will finish behind the Braves, but have to admit most of my reasoning is based on the fact that they Mets are the Mets, and the Braves are the Braves. And until there’s a New World Order in the East, it seems like folly to pick against Bobby Cox, Smoltz and the Joneses over the course of the 162-game marathon they have clearly mastered. Picking against them in the playoffs, now that’s another matter entirely.
Did the Braves do the right thing in not overpaying for a free-agent closer and refusing to meet the Devil Rays’ demand for Kyle Davies as part of any trade package for Baez? I don’t know. Talk to me in July.
Part of me says they were right to not get into a bidding war for old man Trevor Hoffman or meet the ridiculous asking price for Todd Jones, or get into the four- and five-year bidding for the likes of aging Billy Wagner or largely unproven B.J. Ryan. But part of me says, are they ready to go into the season with a $2.5 million setup man (Reitsma), a journeyman-type lefty (John Foster) and a cast that also includes castoffs (Oscar Villareal, Jeff Bennett, etc.), talented youngsters coming back from injuries (Blaine Boyer, Joey Devine) and baby-faced kids with little experience (Chuck James, Macay McBride)?
Sometimes I think the Braves lack a healthy sense of urgency about their bullpen simply because year after year, they’ve continued to win the division with bullpens that are comprised largely of castoffs and kids, with not many of the high-priced and proven arms that other teams stockpile the way the Cubs have this offseason (not that that was a wise move by the Cubs, getting two $4 mill-a-year setup men, neither of whom warranted such a salary; but that’s another story).
While Schuerholz, Frank Wren, Cox and Leo Mazzone have managed to piece together ‘pens that get the job done well enough over the course of the season, last year they had to spend an inordinate amount of effort throughout the summer retooling their bullpen, trying to find answers before finally getting some order late in the season with Kyle Farnsworth closing and Reitsma setting up. Too much time and effort went into that bullpen project for most of the season. Even at the end of the season, the other roles in the ‘pen seemed ever-changing, and if the Braves had advanced beyond the first round, I’m skeptical of how their pitching staff would have held up during an NLCS.
But enough of that rant. It is what is is, and at this point, the Braves’ options are limited. After Baez was traded from Tampa Bay to the Dodgers for two young arms last week, it left no known available targets for the Braves to pursue. But Schuerholz and Wren and their scouts have a way of turning over rocks and nosing around all spring until they find someone at a suitable price, the way they got Chris Reitsma from the Reds and Juan Cruz from the Cubs in a couple of trades days before the 2004 season began. If they need to do it again, I’m sure they’ll try and probably succeed in coming up with an arm. Everyone knows that Atlanta has got plenty of pieces that teams want in trades, plenty of prospects and young players, and if they need to make a deal they’ll pull the trigger.
Still, the Braves don’t seem likely to get a top-notch guy at this point, not until late in the summer when teams fall from races and decide to deal away closers. If the Dodgers are 10 games behind in the NL West in July, do they really need to keep $10 mill closer Erig Gagne AND $4 mill setup man Baez, along with Yhency Brazoba, who saved 21 games last season and is still cheap? (Probably not a great example, since the Dodgers seem like they’ve spent enough this winter and filled enough holes to ensure they’ll at least be in the race through the summer, especially in that questionable division. But you get my point _ there will be teams that have expendable, high-priced arms late in the summer.)
Baez can be a free agent next winter, and the team’s $12 mill option on Gagne for 2007 probably won’t be exercised if the man who saved 152 games from 2002-04 doesn’t show that he’s fully recovered from last year’s elbow surgery.
The Braves also believe they have another big factor in their favor that shouldn’t be overlooked: Roger McDowell. Team officials and Braves veterans think McDowell, their new pitching coach and an accomplished reliever (and clubhouse prankster) for more than a decade as a player, can supply guidance and leadership for those kids and bullpen castoffs, that he will try and succeed in getting the most out of them. Mazzone, for all his talents, always put more of his emphasis on developing the rotation, and in turn developed his reputation largely through his indisputable results with veteran pitchers, be they stars in their primes (Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz) or others who’d slipped and needed reclamation (Burkett and Jaret Wright immediately come to mind).
He had success with some youngsters, too (Steve Avery being the obvious example), but some young pitchers in recent years have complained privately to older pitchers about Mazzone’s brash nature and said they felt a bit bullied by him. (Please, folks, I’m just telling you what was told to me. I got along great with Leo and hated to see him go. The man’s now the highest-paid pitching coach in baseball, and there’s a reason the Orioles believed he was worthy of a three-year, $1.5 million contract. Godspeed to you, Leo.) For that reason, some — plenty, frankly — in the organization believe McDowell will provide something missing for the relievers and kids, while the stable veterans Smoltz and Hudson will assure the rotation guys keep doing what needs to be done to stay atop the NL in starters’ ERA.
I think the best news for the Braves is, they still have Cox in the dugout and Andruw Jones in center field, and they still have a starting rotation that’s better than the Mets, even with Mike Hampton recovering from surgery and out for the season. They have Smoltz and Hudson at the top, and three from the group that includes John Thomson, Horacio Ramirez, Jorge Sosa and Davies, the kid from McDonough who showed more than enough in his first few starts in the majors last summer to reinforce the Braves’ belief that he’s got top-of-rotation talent and guts for the long term.
One from among Thomson, Ramirez and Sosa could be traded this spring if (when?) the Braves decide they must get another bat and/or another reliever, but they seem determined to hang onto Davies, much as they were set on not trading top catching prospect Saltalamacchia this winter when team after team inquired about the slugging 20-year-old.
If I had to predict now, I’d say Adam LaRoche is going to get a chance to play every day at first base, since the Braves lost Julio Franco to the Mets and didn’t land Jeff Conine or a suitable replacement. Oh, and while on the subject — did the Orioles really need both Conine AND Kevin Millar? The Braves tried hard to get Conine, but not sure if they made any effort to get Millar, who’s going to make at least $2 mill and possibly close to $4 mill with incentives added in the deal he signed last week. Millar would have fit perfectly into the Braves’ clubhouse and given them a good bat off the bench and help at first base and left field, but his glove’s a liability and the Braves like to get good defense from their bench guys.
OK, I’ve rambled again with nothing new of substance to give you bloggers. Sorry, but it’s just been a dead time. I can’t make chicken salad from chicken entrails, or something like that.
I think the Braves are set until they get to spring training. Not that this is exactly the team they wanted — they were outbid for many players this winter, as you know — but they believe it’s good enough, at least for now. Only time will tell.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Chop Chop
January 16, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
Well, even if the 2006 Braves team is somehow good enough to do what last year’s team did, it’ll be the same old song and dance. Division titles are great, but when a fan really can’t hold out much hope for more, it gets frustrating and, frankly, boring. Despite the fact that the Braves’ attendance went up last year for the first time in several years, I don’t think there’s much on this particular team (aside from Francoeur having a monster year or something) that will help carry over that attendance increase this year. Then again, trading for Danys Baez wouldn’t exactly be exciting, either. I suppose that Schuerholz can’t really do a whole lot to get the fans interested in the team’s chances for anything better next year.
By Jeremy
January 16, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
DOB…..what about a possible deal with the Astros to get Brad Lidge? I’d give up Giles and Chuck James in a second for Lidge. Then, Pete Orr could play 2nd and bat leadoff. Betemit could also pick up some at-bats that way and Langerhans could get some time batting leadoff.
By HAHAHAHA
January 16, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
Booby “Booger” Cox still being around is a good thing?
HAHAHAHA!
Yeah, if you love choking in October it’s a good thing! If that man managed anywhere else, he would have been held accountable for his failures long ago.
Like Herm Edwards says, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME! ie… the CHAMPIONSHIP! I guess in Craplanta, you play for WORTLESS division “titles.” That is why your team and your city is full of losers.
I mean, you still have that booger-picking, wife-beating idiot making the worst possible, head-scratching playoff decisions in the history of the game in your dugout, and your football team, instead of $%!&canning their terrible offensive coordinator, Greg Knapp and hold him accountable for making Michael Vick WORSE, they scapegoat the quarterback coach.
Yeah, Craplanta… where NO ONE is ever held accountable! A city of losers!
HAHAHAHA!
By David O'Brien
January 16, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
Jeremy, two words why that trade won’t happen: Craig Biggio.
HAHAHAHA (I always forget, is that the proper number of HA’s … let me scroll up and check … man, it’d sure be easier if you’d use something else for your handle there, pardner, something like, i don’t know, your name maybe … OK, yes, four HA’s is correct). Now where were we? Oh, yes, Craplanta (that’s so cute, I love it. your kid come up with that?) Man, I keep getting sidetracked … your rich and thoughtful posts do that to me … what were we talking about?
Oh, yeah _ Herm Edwards. How’s he working out up in New York?
By David O'Brien
January 16, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
Gotta step away for a while, HAHAHAHA, so if I don’t respond to your inevitable witty replies to my previous post, please don’t read anything into it or think I’m avoiding you. Besides, I’d rather let you post 4-5 times so I can digest it all before trying to come up with a suitable response to your witty banter.
By Marc Spoor
January 16, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
Great blog Dave. With that being said, I am a little confusec and frustrated. The biggest problem with the Braves last season was the bullpen. It is amazing that this offseason JS has done literally nothing to address this problem. I realize that being a GM is tough and it’s not like us laymen who do fantasy leagues. I realize that teams have budgets, that teams get outbid, and that sometimes players just go for the money or a location. However, with that being said I can’t understand how the Dodgers outbid us for Baez. They gave up Edwin Jackson, who has been horrific for the last 2 plus years , and an A ball pitcher named Tiffany. Are you really going to tell me that JS couldn’t put a more enticing deal together. I think that no matter what is said from the Braves top brass, they can’t add payroll because of the potential sale. Look at the facts the Braves saved money on Chipper’s reworked deal, we saved money on Renteria, we saved money on Estrada, and still we picked up no one. JS needed to address the bullpen, a shortstop, a leadoff hitter, another outfielder, and a platoon 1st baseman. The only thing he addressed was a shortstop.
I cannot believe that with a surplus of tradeable parts, and money all JS could come up with was Renteria. It’s fine to say JS refused to trade Davies, or Salty. Let’s look at who else could have been traded. Kelly Johnson, Ryan Langerhans, Wilson Betemit, Pete Orr, Brayan Pena, Jorge Sosa, Horacio Ramirez, John Thomson, Anthony Lerew, Chuck James, and not to mention a pretty rich farm system to draw from. So even excluding Davies and Salty, there was and is plenty to trade from. I just can’t understand that with such glaring needs and with so much to trade with, and extra money, that JS basically did nothing. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results. The Braves have tried Reitsma at closer, and yes for a couple of months he did okay. But he has shown that he wears out and his stuff is to hittable. I believe that in order to be a great closer you need to strike guys out. Look at the success of John Smoltz, Mariano Rivera, John Wettland, Billy Wagner, Brad Lidge(except this post season). These guys strike guys out. Reitsma, because of his great change-up gets a lot of ground balls, but as we have seen the more a ball is put in play the more it has a chance to find a hole. I know power pitchers are hard to find, but I think JS should have done anything to get a power pitching proven flame thrower, like Wagner, for our closer. Even if it ment letting Furcal go, and letting Betemit play shortstop. I also don’t think JS improved the bulpen we got Villareal, who has been injured and has posted 1 good year, his rookie year, we got Cormier, who has put up bad numbers. And didn’t JS learn that the Brewers aren’t exactly a pipeline to a championship. Obermueller, and Bennett, GET REAL. I don’t feel our bullpen is any different or better from last year’s version. At least last year, the Braves thought they had a closer who could save 40 games.
To me in order to win the division, the Braves have more if’s than last year. The Braves will win the division if: Renteria returns to the form he did when he was with the Marlins and Cardinals, REitsma can close the whole year, the middle relief improves from amongst the newly added castoffs, Laroach can handle the every day 1st base job, Marcus Giles can handle the leadoff role, MCcann can handle the everday catching duties, all the rookies avoid the sophmore slump. I just don’t feel that JS has done enough, when he seemed to have the money and the pieces to relly improve the team.
DOB what do you think? I know when people question what the Braves are doing, or seek out information from you , you get frustrated. I assure you that I have a life, I don;t live with my mother or in a basement. I am simply a huge Braves fan. I try to be as knowledgeable about the game and the business side as I can. I would appreciate your response, and any opinion or information you mighnt have about the team, the direction they are going and the reasons for the lack of moves. FOr that matter what does anyone think. Alright my rant is done(please excuse any spelling or grammer errors, I did not read this over).
Marc
By Ron Roberts
January 16, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
Notice how the smart-@sses never man up and proclaim who they pull for when putting stupid posts here?
All in all, I agree with Chop Chop,… after a few years of “overachieving” to win the division, which I was satisfied with, I’m not seeing an effort by this franchise to up the ante and go for more.
This has to be the most frustrating off-season for me in recent memory. We knew what the weakness was for this team, and for my money, we did very little to remedy it. Then to see the Dodgers get Baez for pieces/parts (you mean we couldn’t match or supercede their offer???) is just the nail in the coffin for me.
If the Braves hope for a surge in season ticket sales, gamed-day sales, etc., based solely on the current lineup, they’re blithely clueless about their marketing woes. Our starting 8 are as good as anybody’s in the NL (if we don’t get any sophomore slumps - and we’re bound to get one from somebody) and our rotation is fantastic if it stays healthy. But we had those two pieces against the Astros and were KO’ed in four games.
Why?
Because our bullpen wasn’t good now, and after losing Farnsworth, I can’t say it’s any better now, either.
By HAHAHAHA
January 16, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
David,
No witty reply needed. Just some accountability in the City of Losers. Stop avoiding the issue. You know that in any other city, Booby Cox would have been held accountable not only by his team, but by the sports media as well. But he gets a pass by all of you. That is a discredit to the already tarnished visage that the press enjoys. Same goes for Greg Knapp. The man has made Mexico worse than he was, but gets to keep his job because he’s best friends with the coach. In any other city, with an owner with some real balls, he’d be fired and have the press screaming for his job. But not in Craplanta.
You wanna know why you’re the City of Losers? Why you’re Craplanta? Because you accept mediocrity. Because you delude yourself into believing that NOT winning World Series is okay, that “winning” division “titles” and not winning World Series is something to be proud of.
Instead of meeting me head on, you avoid, avoid, avoid. Yeah, Herm’s team was overcome by injuries, but when his team could have tanked it to get the number 1 draft pick, like the Houston Texans did with all of their missed chip-shot fieldgoals down the stretch, he had his team scratch and claw and try. When’s the last time a Booby Cox team ever did that? YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAMES. Booby Cox plays to win division “titles” and then refuses to change when change is needed in order to win when it really does matter. And yet, he STILL gets a free pass from you in the media, and from all of the Braves apologist fans.
Think of me what you will, David, but I’m not blind. I see bias in the sports press in Atlanta. Maybe you’re scared of Cox’s notorious temper, and know that if you speak against his boneheaded decisions over the last 14 Octobers, you’ll be banned for life from the clubhouse. He’s done it before, we all know that, and you know that. I wonder how he would handle a REAL media outlet, one that isn’t afraid of him, or afraid to hold him accountable? I wonder if he’d be as well liked as you say he is outside of the Craplanta fans who actually want to hold him accountable for his indescribably mindboggling October Choke-fests.
So you can avoid the real issue by deflecting to a bad Jets season (guess what, I could care less about the Jets, and I’m not from New York, so joke’s on you, O’Brien). The fact remains, that you and the other sycophants at the AJC don’t do your jobs the way others in your profession do. You don’t hold anyone accountable and you drink the Kool-Aide. You’re supposed to be unbiased, but you keep on drinking the Kool-Aide.
Yeah, Booby deserves all the accolades for winning division “titles” but oh no… he deserves NONE of the blame for his October idiocy!
Yeah, it’s the QB coach’s fault for Vick becoming worse, NOT Greg Knapp, Jim Mora’s best friend’s fault!
City of Losers… Craplanta.
By SouthernJackAssRadioPersonalityGoneHaywireRR
January 16, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
John Schuerholz had no intention of acquiring a premium or even good closer this offseason. Just tell us the truth for a change Schuerholz, just tell us that you aren’t going to do anything, and the truth shall set you free. Sooner than later fans are going to tire of paying premium prices to watch minor league players. How many postseason failures because of no bullpen will it take, and this offseason Schuerholz has done nothing? No comment? Oh well, business as usual, go get another division, then watch your knees buckle in postseason again, who cares? By the way DOB, I don’t live in my mother’s basement, the attic is much more cozy…
By SpecialEd
January 16, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
I wonder if the Braves will be able to afford bats and balls in ‘06?
By BB FAN
January 16, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
HAHAHAHA,
By Robert (Justice is the best)
January 16, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
Let the Braves pull off a WS championship and the wagon would tip over with all the jumpers. “JS is a genius! What a great team!” This fairweather crap just kills me. I bet the Tigers would take 15 straight titles instead of the numerous last place finishes they have had over these past 15 years. Absolutely amazes me. Just like all the Patriot jumpers who said they were no good until they won that first Super Bowl and are all now saying Bellichick sucks because they couldn’t win 3 in a row. You know what…..all teams are better off without these fairweather friends that are die hards when things go their way and completely negative when things are going wrong.
By David O'Brien
January 16, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
Marc, just quick reply here because I’ve gotta go run some errands. Oh, and please don’t apologize for grammar errors and such. As I replied to the obsessive person with nothing better to point out a few weeks ago, this is a blog, not a term paper and not a published story where copy editors get involved. Just free-flowing dialogue, hopefully, and as long as we know what you mean, spelling and such isn’t that important, far as I’m concerned.
OK, as for the bullpen: I don’t disagree with you that it was an area not properly addressed. I don’t thing Braves anticipated how high the price would go for quality relievers (I know I didn’t), but that’s not much of an excuse. Gotta pay the going rate to get arms.
But just to correct something you said, or clarify is maybe a better word. You and several others have said Braves “saved” on Renteria and others. Actually, even with the cash Red Sox are paying to help cover Renteria’s salary, Braves still owe him $6 mill average per season. And while that’s less than half of what Furcal will get from Dodgers, it’s still actually MORE than the $5.6 Furcal made last season with Braves.
And while Braves “saved” on Estada, who’s getting $2 mill from Arizona, keep in mind that Braves only paid him $460,000 last season. In other words, their $80 mill payroll, which was also $80 mill last season, isn’t significantly changed by the difference in what they’re paying their catchers, which is actually more than season, since backup Eddie Perez made only $625,000 last year and backup Todd Pratt is getting $850,000 in 2006. Brian McCann will make about $350,000. See what I mean?
And while Chipper’s salary was reduced from would-be $17 mill to $11 mill in his renegotiated contract, he also got a $4 mill signing bonus that can be spread over three year for payroll purposes. But that drops the savings to under $5 mill on his deal for this season, any way you look at it.
Braves will get maybe $5-6 mill of Mike Hampton’s $13.5 salary back from insurance this season while he’s recovering from surgery, after they pay 60-day deductible, from what I’m told. But keep in mind, Braves were counting Hampton’s salary as about $8 mill per year, the average annual value of their six-year committment to him, rather than counting it as the $5.5 mill total they paid him past three years while Colorado and Florida were paying the rest, and the $43 mill the Braves owe him over next three seasons. They just averaged it out for payroll purposes, and they haven’t _ and won’t _ explain how the insurance would be figured in.)
So let’s just figure roughly _ very roughly _ about $7-9 million or so saved from Chipper and Hampton’s insurance. Again, roughly.
But at same time, figure in the $1.1 mill raise Reitsma just got (he was arbitration-eligible) and the big raises due arbitration-eligible Marcus Giles (he’ll go from last year’s $2.4 to close to $4 mill) and the roughly $3 million more together that it’ll cost to pay pitchers Horacio Ramirez and Jorge Sosa, who are both arbitration-eligible and stand to make around $2 mill apiece, give or take a couple hundred thousand.
OK, that’s close to $6 mill more just to pay for raises for Reitsma, Giles, Horacio and Sosa.
Add another $1 mill for the raise that Thomson got when his $4.75 mill option was exercised (he made $3.75 mill last year).
Tim Hudson’s salary actually goes down, from the $6.5 mill he made last year in final season of his previous contract, to $4 mill in 2006 in the first year of the backloaded contract extension he signed last March that’ll pay him $6 mill in 2007 and then $13 mill in each of the two years after that.
(WHEW _ This is getting taxing, but you asked, and others have asked, so I’m trying to get it all out of the way at once).
But while Hudson’s salary is dropping a bit for one year, Smoltz is making $2 mill more and Andruw’s salary rises from $12.5 to $13 mill in 2006.
OK, without even figuring all the small raises the other players get, that gives us about $7 mill in raises for the big guys, and that’s including the $2.5 reduction that Hudson gets.
On the surface, at least, it looks pretty much like no more than a $2-3 mill savings, tops, between what they’re saving from Chipper and froom Hampton’s insurance, and what they’re paying in raises for their returning players, along with the additional $500,000 or so they’re paying for the shortstop and catching positions. This is just amateur bookkeeping on my part, but I’m trying to explain to you how it’s not as some would believe.
Remember, the payroll isn’t rising this year. The Braves are keeping it at $80 mill, or said they would. So as you can see, there really aren’t millions and millions waiting to be spent, at least as far as I can tell. And since the Braves don’t discuss their salaries, payroll procedures, insurance, etc, that’s all we can do, is try go figure it out ourselves from discussions with agents and the like.
Hope that helps. I’m exhausted.
OK, let’s get back to serious discussions about boogers, Craplanta and the like.
By Paul
January 16, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
Dave,
I think Vilarreal will be a solid pickup for the Braves. He has tremendous stuff. Is there any chance the Braves could put together a package for Fuentes or Shields? Great Blog as always.
By BB FAN
January 16, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
HAHAHAHA, Do you have a team? You still have not told us. And I think it’s common belief that the Braves post season failures are not ALL of Cox’s fault. Nobody (fans or media) has stated that Cox is a god and can do nothing wrong. He has made some bad moves in the post season, but there have also been some plays that were (or not) made by players. However, Cox is still a great manager. Yes he makes mistakes, but we are all human. Or are you perfect? You might think so.
And none of us Braves fans are OK with the post season failures but we are realists. We realize that only one team wins the WS each year. That means 29 teams are “losers” as you say. But that is life. Not everybody can win. There has to be a loser. And in sports, there are ~29 teams (in each sport) that have to lose each and every year. The fact that the Braves do have a WS title 10 years ago is great. Many teams go 20, 30, 40, 86 years without one. Hell, even the Yankees (with a 200 mill payroll) have not won the WS since 2000. The Braves peaked in the mid 90’s and have slowly faded over the last 5 + years with the payroll decreasing or staying the same.
Anyway, if you want to bad mouth a city and it’s teams and fans, at least have enough balls to admit who you route for.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
January 16, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
Trust me, I am sick of the Braves choking in the playoffs but I would rather have them in the playoffs with a chance than a team that is out of it by August.
By John Rocker
January 16, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this
GO METS!!!…
By Chop Chop
January 16, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I was just about to talk about boogers. You stole my thunder. I guess I’ll settle for talking about “Craplanta” and HAHAHAHA’s strange interest in it. My feeling is that people such as HAHAHAHA should associate themselves with great sports towns. You know…Detroit. Wait. The Lions and Tigers stink. Okay…maybe…Chicago? Oh yeah. Cubs, Bulls and Blackhawks. How about…New York? Yeah. The Knicks, Jets, Islanders and Mets are all great, right?
HAHAHAHA, the fact is that the only way you’re ever going to have a “city of non-losers” is if you pick and choose the best teams in each sport and make up an imaginary city (say, “Ciudad de HAHAHAHA”…H’s silent, of course) for them to compete in. Remember that you may have to change those teams from month to month, possibly day to day, depending on the level of success each team achieves.
Believe me, HAHAHAHA, I’m tired of bad postseason moves by Bobby Cox and the seemingly endless ability of Falcons’ employees to kiss up to Michael Vick. However, I know this does not define me or the city that happens to have the teams I cheer for. After all, “Ciudad de Chop Chop” was VERY successful this year.
By Forest
January 16, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
POSTSEASON FAILURES ARE ON THE PLAYERS. bOBBY CAN’T MAKE MARCUS AND OTHERS HIT AND PITCH WELL IN POSTSEASON PLAY.
By doc
January 16, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this
dob,wish you could find a little more to write about but things are slow, do enjoy the read though. will check out some of those films.
when i saw the trade for baez by the dodgers it just seemed to me to substantiate my concerns that aol is not going to open the coffers at all. even without offering them davies it seems we could have matched if not given something of more value than what the devils got from the bums. just seems like there is more to the story behind the scene or there is a whole lot of confidence in mcdowell and the new blood. it looks like chipper didnt buy any more teammates or additional budget but a bit more time in the big a.
overall, i am not too discouraged by what is ready to go on the field. js got what was needed most, at ss and possibly even improved things there. you can make an argument that maybe it was the pitching coach that made the diffference but i think it has been the unbelievable defense up the middle that makes the pitching staff so much better here and is why most who leave dont reproduce their results elsewhere.
dob now one little side item. isnt it intereresting when a new yawker has to come on line and talk about other teams and includes the tears about how his team got all hurt this year and werent able to live up to his expectations. or how much better the baseball teams are up there by spending all that money to watch the world series just like you and i do on tv. or forget that their beloved knicks, nets, rangers and islanders continue to watch from the bottom usually while their stupid fans spend a lot of money to yell at their teams and tell their teams how bad they are thinking that it motivates the players and means they arent accepting mediocrity.
do you think they have forgotten how long it has been since the giants made it very far in the playoffs? i mean parcells has had how many stints in his heart since then? do you think for a minute they have forgotten that big bill spit on them as he left town for a winning organization in new england and put up the numbers of what three super bowl rings since he left them in the dust? dob you know it is great to finally know what a winner looks like and how one acts. dob it just fills me up with a lot of respect for them, doesnt it do the samne thing for you?
By Michael
January 16, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this
For everyone who complains about Bobby Cox only winning one World Series, I just thought everyone should know that with the exception of Joe Torre, the last manager to win two World Series is Cito Gaston (1992 and 1993 Blue Jays). So, while winning only one World Series has been disappointing, it’s not like so many managers are winning mulitple Series.
By David O'Brien
January 16, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
Meeting the man who goes by HAHAHAHA head on:
Bitter one, you write:
Instead of meeting me head on, you avoid, avoid, avoid. Yeah, Herm’s team was overcome by injuries, but when his team could have tanked it to get the number 1 draft pick, like the Houston Texans did with all of their missed chip-shot fieldgoals down the stretch, he had his team scratch and claw and try.
OVERCOME BY INJURIES? Isn’t that an excuse every team makes after failing to meet goals? And didn’t the Braves use a major league-high 18 rookies because of injuries last year?
YOU CONTINUE:
When’s the last time a Booby Cox team ever did that? YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAMES. Booby Cox plays to win division “titles� and then refuses to change when change is needed in order to win when it really does matter.
I’M CONFUSED. In order to win division titles, don’t you have to WIN THE MOST GAMES over a six-month season? Just wondering. Last I checked, the TEAM THAT WINS THE GAMES most often, wins the title.
AND YOU CONTINUE: And yet, he STILL gets a free pass from you in the media, and from all of the Braves apologist fans
As I’ve pointed out before, HAHAHAHA, we at the AJC are no longer permitted to vote on postseason awards. Bobby Cox won NL Manager of the Year for the second consecutive season, and got 28 of 32 first-place votes from writers in every NL city. All 28 came from writers other than AJC staff members, and at least 26 came from writers outside Atlanta.
But don’t let that stand in the way of your arguments or your assertion that us Atlanta writers don’t get it.
I don’t fear of Cox’s temper _ I’ve questioned his strategic moves several times in game stories, and he never once called me on it or got angry with me publicly _ and I don’t know where you get your ridiculous assertion that he’d have me or someone “banned from the clubhouse. I simply don’t believe that it’s ever happened _ tell me who and when, or just who, if you can’t recall the date. Give me a ballpark figure, like maybe the decade it happened in.
Otherwise, go back to hating somewhere else, man, and let people discuss the Braves and the upcoming season here.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
January 16, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
I totally agree. Coaching or managing has a lot more to do with playoff success in basketball and football than it does baseball. However, Bobby messed up in game 4 of the NLDS. I’m telling you if Hudson stays in one more inning then the Braves force a game 5 back at home. Now, that can be blamed on Cox.
By doc
January 16, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
dob, while i was bogging to you about economics you put up a pretty good response before the fact. you minght want to post it weekly to all of us who want to know where the money is going. i knew they were tight but i didnt have the figures. i really dont think they had much money to work with and wont until new management comes in and will have less and less the longer it takes to make a deal.
By Marc Spoor
January 16, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
Dave, thank you for your response. I understand now that the restructuring of Chipper’s K and the backloaded deals were really just made to keep some players, and keep the payroll at $80 million. This is very frustrating, however. Do you think that JS is not allowed to add payroll because of the impending sale. With just a couple of moves to get a closer and a lead off hitter, I think we can really go further in the playoffs. I would like to say that underestimating JS is a bad move he always pulls something out of his hat, and he is not stupid. He knows we are lacking in some areas. It is frustrating to see all of the press on Chipper reworking his deal, and Hudson signing a backloaded deal, to just kind of do nothing. I also think that Baez salary was low at $4 million, and players like Coco Crisp are not making much either. So I guess I am a little confused that JS did not go after some of these guys. I understand not coming up with Billy Wagner, or Hoffman, I get that we can’t just throw $10 million a year at guys, or trading for Manny Ramirez.
But why is it that JS didn’t really seem to go after, or land the lesser priced free agents, or guys on the block. I hope he is just waiting for spring training. To me however, it seems he is holding onto top prospects and young guys more than ever, waiting for Chipper’s, Andruw’s, and Smoltz’s contracts to expire, so we can rebuild. I know no one wants to say it but all good things come to an end. After those vcontract’s expire Hudson can also be traded. What do you think? Could the Braves be on the verge of rebuilding? It just seems to me that JS did not go out and really address all of the team needs with gusto, like he normally does. His after season quotes and promises have no really been met.
By HAHAHAHA
January 16, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
Did I not say I’m not from New York? That I couldn’t care less about the Jets? I could live anywhere, even in Canada or LA or Craplanta, but who cares.
The fact of the matter is that no one in this town holds their sports teams to any accountability. You praise them until the sun comes up and goes down again when the littlest thing goes right, but when they continually come up short, when they continually fail when they should succeed, you FAIL to hold them accountable.
That’s not hate… that’s truth.
By Hy Anenzid
January 16, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this
Ok, I have the solution to the ownership dilemma. First we plan a $100 a plate get-together with 4 million of our closest friends, buy the team and cancel all subscriptions to AOL and Time.
Top Ten Changes as the New Brave Owners.
…………………………and the Number One change we as the new owners will enjoy..
By doc
January 16, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this
hahahaha i think atlanta fans speak quite well to the product as it is put on the field. most dont buy tickets when it is bad. you can talk all you want but altlanta fans wont walk the walk to an inferior product. look at the hawks now, empty. the thrashers will benefit from their improved product in fan base, the falcons tickets could have been had on the cheap during their desultory run of mediocrity and the braves suffered through many years of sub million fans per year before js.
i support the braves because their product year in and year out is among the best in the business as a purist. if you look at the product, how they play the game, though, sometimes it doesnt pan out in wins, they play the game well. i didnt like the product for about two or three weeks last year as the babies got comfortble, but please dont give me the lousy braves of the pre js era. high school teams executed better.
atlanta fans pretty much hold teams accountable by what is put on display and it really doesnt have to win all the time in the end, most ADULTS know only one team stands at the end and that is not what ultimately defines a good product or even mediocrity. it certainly doesnt pay to expend a lot of energy whining about it. just dont go. historically, that is the way atlanta fans respond,
some call it fair weather or fickle fans others call it accountability to the product. the product wont change until there is a monetary need in most situations, that is what good fans realize that have to cough up the bucks as well as the owers that need to make a buck. that is why the lakers get it right, why ted got it right and the list goes on. it just takes not going rather than ranting to activate change. atlanta fans seem to get it and i applaud poor attendance when the product isnt there to make a statement with the feet but it is a lot more fun when they get it right.
By Chopper Dude
January 16, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this
The reason HAHAHAHA is not saying where he is from cause he don’t want nobody to know he’s from Detroit.And HAHAHAHA tell me who won manager of the year last year? Yep COX. And who voted for him? And name one other manager that won 14 straight? Yep Cox And what team had 18 rookies last year? Yep Cox. Get off momma’s computor and Go back to 8 mile
By HAHAHAHA
January 16, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this
doc,
You are right… the fans do speak. The Braves don’t sell out their amusement park poeusing as a ballpark for the postseason, and we all know why.
That does not, however, excuse the Atlanta media for continually giving Booby Cox a free pass for his rampant October failures.
How many articles over the years about his ineptitude? Maybe one? How many articles this year about Knapp’s ineptitude as a playcaller and failure to make Vick better? Maybe one?
How long do you think Falcons fans will wait? The boos will come long and strong by game one if Knapp remains Knapp. And the Craplanta Braves will continue to not sell out their amusement park named after that mentally unstable socialist.
And to that, all I have to say is…
HAHAHAHA!
By HAHAHAHA
January 16, 2006 06:12 PM | Link to this
So now I’m from Detroit? Two hours ago I was from New York.
Think about this, you redneck sister-kissing “Chopper Dude.”
How many titles has Detroit won in the last 20 years compared to Craplanta? What, you don’t know, because you’re an idiot redneck who has no idea about sports? Well let me educate you, redneck. 6. Detroit has won 6 titles in the last 20 years, and if you go to 22 years, that number is 7 (Tigers). The Redwings. The Pistons. Just because Craplanta sucks at basketball, doesn’t mean basketball isn’t big everywhere else (it is, by the way). And even though your hockey team is doing okay this year after 5 years of choking, the Redwings have won the Cup 3 times in the last 8 years. And in the last 22 years, the Tigers have won exactly the same amount of World Series as the Braves. One. So what good are all of those division “titles” really, if you keep on choking it all away?
But no, idiot Redneck. I’m not a New Yorker. Or from Detroit. But like any fan from anywhere else but Craplanta, I know more about the history of sports than you ever could, you dumb sister-kisser.
By Jarrett
January 16, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this
I say we give Davies the fifth starter role, and put Jorge as the closer. I’m sorry, but my stomach cannot take Chris closing games again.
By Ben
January 16, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this
I think HAHA has a point, about the Braves not selling out games like they should. However, I think it has to do w/ parking and the fact that Turner Field is seen as a bad neck of the woods by the Northern suburbanites who drive this city’s economy. Perhaps mass transit i. e. the Beltline and another generation of integrated school children growing up will help the Braves. But I don’t think it has anything to do with disloyalty. The South is full of Braves fans who are/were very loyal. BTW, I give up HAHA, where are you from?
By Chopper Dude
January 16, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this
Gee Wiz HAHAHAHA temper temper temper. Why you so mad and calling me a dumb sister kissing dude? Ha Ha now that is funny.Didn’t mean to stike a nerve with ya.dumb? I guess all the writers thinks Cox is dumb? Cox should not won the manager of the year? Didn’t know you was a brain. And what is a Redneck in your terms anyway? anyway I see you in anger management class. Name calling? Really… Don’t play the name calling game. Little to old for that. You can dish it out but you can’t take a little kidding.
By Chopper Dude
January 16, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this
And one more thing HAHAHAHA I do think JS and Cox are doing better than anyone else could for the braves and I do know more than you do in the sports. And who would be your choice of GM or M? anyway?Let me guess probably someone who has won lately right? How easy it must be HAHAHAHA
By HAHAHAHA
January 16, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this
Just trying to educate the Forrest Gumps of the world. Yes, I know it’s a losing proposition (like Booby Cox managing a team in October… ZING!), but I must try. For the children!
The fact remains, you tried to put me down by saying I’m from here or there, and the thing is, you weren’t smart enough to realize that a city like Detroit owns Craplanta’s @$$ when it comes to sports. So does Boston. So does New York. So does Chicago. So does LA, and Miami, and Houston, and Washington DC, and Baltimore, and Pittsburgh, and San Francisco, and Dallas, and the list goes on and on.
You’re one up on Buffalo, but you’re very much alike in most aspects of sports choking. You’re the Cleveland of the South. You’re the Philly of the South. You’re the Indianapolis of the South!
Your sports history is woeful and marred not only by crappy teams, but even crappier fans. You seek to make fun of me by assigning me some northern city or whatever, and you fail to realize your own stupidity for doing so. All of those cities have way more titles than Craplanta. Heck, Miami has double your titles, and they never won one of you precious division “titles.” That is why you are the City of Losers. That is why you are Craplanta.
By Greg
January 16, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this
David,
I can’t believe what little the Dodgers gave up to get Danys Baez. It doesn’t help our situation.
If Chris Reitsma gets the closer role, I see bad things.
With six starting pitchers, hopefully it will be John Thomson that is sent packing. I was impressed by Jorge Sosa and his tenacity, and hope he gets a legitimate shot to win a spot in the rotation.
By Chopper Dude
January 16, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this
Cry me a river.Anyone who calls a City losers is a Loser. Name Calling ooooh dang you broke my bone! ha ha Enough said
By anotherearlyexit
January 16, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this
I’m a little upset at the off season activity as well. However I plan on spending a couple of weekends in Orlando during Spring training. Grandpa is firing up the RV and we are packing dozens of official league baseballs and bats for those autos. Salty get your John Hancock in primo shape!
And Dave please stick to sports and not movies you Eleanor Ringel wannabe. I haven’t seen Murderball but will check it out based on your recomendation. Agree on Cinderella man. But Munich was terrible. Factually just plain incorrect. Artisitic license my arse! Plain lying!
Now go get us a closer!
By Joe
January 16, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this
HAHAHAHA is awesome. He’s funny…and clearly lonely…but funny. Craplanta is a good one. Booby Cox is better. Your uncanny ability to assign a funny name to people and places that closely resemble the real names of those people and places clearly demonstrates the intellectual superiority that you so desperately try to claim in your posts. I also enjoy your made up facts and ability to google sports facts then refer to them as if they’ve been hiding securely in the recesses of your vast scope of knowledge. Your denunciation has been heeded, and I, as a craplantan, hang my head and admit my inferiority to you.
This is my surrender; please don’t call me names. My name is Joe, and I am a craplantan.
By Papaw
January 16, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this
Funny Post Joe (aka HAHAHAHA)
By steve
January 16, 2006 07:30 PM | Link to this
anyway the braves can get crawford from the d-rays would solve the leadoff and left field spot all together theres more than enough prospects in the farm to make a deal happen
By sturt
January 16, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this
Astros fan here.
Lidge’s name has been bandied about enough this off-season that you shouldn’t consider all lost.
But, I dare say, the Astros are asking a pretty penny, and all the moreso with the Baez trade now past tense.
If a trade happens, the conventional wisdom in Astro-dom is that it will wait for spring training when (a) Bagwell’s situation is more concrete, and (b) they’ve had a chance to stick Qualls and Wheeler into the 9th inning of some Grapefruit games to measure the optimism concerning either as closers (… and it could be, even, that one of those could be tradable).
What would the Astros want? Likely a sum of talent comparable to what they obtained out of the Billy Wagner trade (ie, #2 pitcher in AAA, #1 pitcher at A level, and a throw-in disappointing MLB pitcher). However, this time, it likely would require position players moreso than pitchers — at least one of which would be a catcher.
Or, alternatively, the trade could be bigger so that it solves Atlanta’s closer problem and your lead-off question… Sporting News RofY Taveras could be included in the trade in that instance, but then your side would have to ante up someone in the trade that you probably would hate to include… so, I’m not inclined that it would go that direction.
And perhaps this is all for nought regardless — the Astros are probably as disinclined to make a trade with the Braves as they are any of the teams in their own division since we end up facing the Braves so regularly in the playoffs… disconcerting images of Lidge mowing the Good Guys down in Game 7 of a LCS would give Purpura and Garner nightmares all season long.
Anyways… just my two pence.
By Joe
January 16, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this
I’m not HAHAHAHA. I just suspect that once he truly feels superior, like he’s won, that he’ll go away. He either craves self-glorification (I can see him sitting back in his chair, folding his arms, smiling to himself and nodding at the computer screen when he really feels that he’s posted a zinger) or he’s a genuine prankster who thinks it’s quite an accomplishment to speak ill of a city and receive backlash (in this case I can see him high-fiving his frat buddies when he really feels that he’s posted a zinger).
By Carroll
January 16, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this
I think we could get Gagne from LA. The Dodgers obviously don’t think they can re-sign him after this season (hence, they go out and get baez), and we all know JS has a propensity to take a flyer on guys in Gagne’s position (i.e. coming off injury plagued season) and guys who are up for a contract, in the hopes that playing for BC will convince them to stay for less $$$. You heard it here first!
By Jman
January 16, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this
HAHAHAHA reeks of a disgruntled Braves fan who after each Braves October ouster jumps off the bandwagon, only to join said bandwagon again around July or August when the Braves take over first place, only to jump off once again in October.
Get off of here and let the REAL Braves fans talk, little one.
By SouthernJackAssRadioPersonalityGoneHaywireRR
January 16, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this
The only thing John Schuerholz will be pulling out of his hat this season is his big head!…
By Caroll
January 16, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this
DOB: in regards to your two-word response (Crag Biggio), I have a two word resposne for you: left field.
By SpecialEd
January 16, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this
Never fear, Jeff Bennett is here…there’s your closer…hahaha
By Greg
January 16, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this
It seems if you want a closer solution that won’t break the increasingly smaller bank, you realize that every successful closer is a failed starter. What made Smoltz so devastating was that he was a successful starter.
There are a few marginal starters that might thrive as a closer: Kevin Brown, Kurt Ainsworth, Jamey Wright or… John Thomson. Why not move Thomson to closer where he doesn’t have to worry about his finger so much. Let Davies and James battle it out for the #5 spot.
By Phi Beta Smacka
January 16, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this
DOB
I do enjoy your writing and overall attitude, but you ARE a bit on the soft side when it comes to being critical of the Braves and Bobby DOES plant his finger in his nose too often.
Other than that, I think HA HA HA is mostly off his rocker.
By David O'Brien
January 16, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this
Carroll, didn’t mean the Craig Biggio comment as a smart-aleck response. Hope it wasn’t taken that way.
Biggio finally got to move back to the position he prefers, second base, last season, and now that he’s coming off a 26-homer year and is a certified icon in Houston, I can’t see Astros asking him to move back to the outfield to make room for Marcus Giles. That’s all I was saying.
By Papa Jack
January 16, 2006 09:11 PM | Link to this
Am I the only one who thinks HAHAHAHA might be about 12 steps short of a program?
By Gary
January 16, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this
I cannot believe some of the people in here. The Braves will be fine. As far as i am concerned I am not expecting JS to make any moves until Spring Training. The last two springs the Braves had bullpen issues that needed to be addressed. JS waited until spring when a team with excess arms needed a bat or utility player and the Braves made the deal. I expect the Rockies to want another starter and might give up Fuentes, the Angels may need a utility infielder and may give up Shields or Donnelly. Who knows if he is healthy and the dodgers are willing to pay some of his salary, the Braves may make an offer for Gagne. Nothing is imposible and JS knows how to deal. Just keep us updated DOB.
By rainman
January 16, 2006 09:22 PM | Link to this
to me the bullpen did need addressed. At the same time left field was a big hole also. now i love langer and johnson as much as anyone but compared to cliff floyd and pat burrel they just dont match up. an upgrade was needed badly. i have seen scott thurman play in the minors could he play left field his bat is the real deal.
By JMar
January 16, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this
Million Dollar Baby? Are you serious? Maybe you liked the movie - I didn’t, but that’s okay. But please tell me you did not like the movie for the boxing. Because it was totally unrealistic, and almost insulting to the sport, the way the woman was able to become a champion boxer in no time flat. The fighting was boring and poorly done. And I didn’t care much for the non-boxing portions of the movie either. Give me Diggstown, The Great White Hope, Ali, and Rockeys II, III, and IV over that garbage any day (not in that order).
By SouthernJackAssRadioPersonalityGoneHaywireRR
January 16, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this
Things a little slow for the ol’ Craplanta Journal CONSTIPATION…Braves do nothing, then DOB writes another lame article about movies, then comments more than everyone else on his own story—hey, how bouts yous guys start a weather blog next—hasn’t been done here yet—no baseball to discuss as usual…
By rainman
January 16, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this
my pick for worth a chance player on the braves roster this year is juan gonzalez. if he gets hurt it cost us a mill or so. if he stays healthy.280 avg. 30 plus hr 90 plus rbi i thank that is more than worth a chance.
By Tomahawkin
January 16, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this
SoutherJacka$$…
Shut The *K up and sit down… Ain’t gone B no dissin D.O.B. up in here, Ur A$$ should B thankful that D.O.B is providin us wit all the info about the braves over the offseason
Us braves fans know that D.O.B is right about the mutts being the mutts and will finish in 3rd place, I see Philly as our biggest adversary, I dunno about you guys but i’m ready 4 spring training
And by the way what’s up carroll I’ve bben away 4 a while…I’ve been partyin too much
By sturt
January 16, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this
Hey guys… especially Carroll and DOB…
Forget Biggio… you’ve never heard of a guy named Chris Burke???
Ever wonder what position Burke is supposed to play instead of LF?
Sheesh.
Some teams just have a knack for filling certain positions with one All-Star-caliber player after another. Closer is one of those for the Astros… and in the tradition of Bill Doran and Craig Biggio, second base isn’t going to be a position of need for the next 10 years.
Besides all of that, for what it matters and not to be overly critical, but Giles hasn’t exactly made an “ooooh-ahhhhh” impression on Astros fans, and I doubt that Astros scouts feel much differently in this case.
(I dare say that is exactly why Giles name pops up almost every time I’ve read anything about a Braves trade since your trade with the BoSox… Braves fans know what the rest of us know.)
By John Munford
January 16, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this
Yo yo yo, how ‘bout a little commonsense in Chop Nation?
JS and the braintrust are being good shoppers. The price is too high now, both in terms of cash and in terms of prospects.
Why not wait til mid-season, throw a few talented relievers on the wall and see if one of them sticks as closer? Chances are by then at least three or four teams will be out of the race and looking to unload talent.
That way, you have a far better chance of getting a top-notch reliever for a cheaper price. And until we get a new owner, we’ll have to continue such bargain hunting.
Besides, such “closer battles” in the bullpen really frustrate the heck out of fantasy baseball owners like myself … except for those of us looking for a bargain on draft day!
Can’t we just be thankful that Kolb is gone? That is a psychological improvement all by itself.
By James
January 16, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this
Every year JS makes moves before spring training breaks camp.That is JS system and every year we are playing in October with a chance. I bet alot of teams wish they had that chance. Look what Sosa done or Juan Cruz. Now last spring what did we have Kolb,Mondesi,and Jordon. It didn’t work out but JS magic did get us in October with Langy,Francour,and Farnsworth.Before JS got here he always had a great record with KC and won the World Series there in 1985.Before BC became Manager he was GM and help our Minor baseball program great.I was a fan back in the 70s and 80s so I will gladly and proudly take those two over anyone in baseball. Bobby C can’t pitch hit and I don’t alway agree with his moves but He has my respect.Another thing I like about JS is he don’t talk till after we hear about the deal which been working for 14 years.I was not surprize of the Renteria deal. I even posted a blog back then before it happen we could get him or Cabaera of the Angels. He will add maybe 2 more players before April 2 and some fans will be thinking where did that come from. There is still alot of good bats and bench players out there and a pitcher who we might trade for that will help us. There is alot of teams that need starting pitching that can give up a good arm. Come the end of July he will also make a move like he’s done in the past. Not worried about the Mets or Phillies cause I think Washington could have better records than them at seasons end.I would really hate to see Langy go in a trade cause I believe he will be like Edmonds in a few years and if A Jones decides to leave after 2007 Langy is there. For that reason I can’t see the Braves trading him.Go Braves!
By James
January 16, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this
It won’t surprize me a bit if they sign Keven Brown to a minor league deal and give him a shot a closing.
By SouthernJackAssRadioPersonalityGoneHaywireRR
January 16, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this
Hey there Tomasquawkin—a little too much firewater there boy—free country, even in Atlanta—so I don’t shut up…
By Tomahawkin
January 16, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this
Dawg I wouldn’t mind seeing Kerry Ligtenberg or the Bong back, anything but Reeksma, He sucks!
I wish I could con Schuerholtz like that, get paid 3 million dollars to blow games…
By Tomahawkin
January 16, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this
Hey Southern P******$$, don’t be dissin D.O.B. He’s coll as he!! 4 providing us Tru Braves fans wit the 411 over the offseason
If you want to make such stupid remarks, go to philly.com They are a lot more compassionate than I am
By fan
January 16, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this
DOB, shut the F* up. I don’t ever want to PAY,which I am, to hear some F* POS never been jock talk about his movies of the year. Stick to Baseball and nothing else.
By WD
January 16, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this
From SI.COM…. JS said “we don’t have a closer, but I’m not concerned about whether we do it before spring training or after.” JS said,” we’ll have a closer, we don’t have one now, there’s no time sensitivity with that. We know we’re going to fix it. We just don’t know how .” IS THAT THE SPIN OR WHAT!! For you that don’t know HAHAHAHA lives NW of Lake Lanier, 4 miles for Bobby. I agree with Spoor and RON ROBERTS comments, its hard to get excited about the Braves when Reitsma comes in inthe 9th . I’m so mad I think I’ll same my money this year and stay home. FIRE MORA and his BLANK staff.
By Tomahawkin
January 16, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this
D.O.B Is cool, stop hatin, by on the reeksma issue, I shake my head whenever he comes in…
By SouthernJackAssRadioPersonalityGoneHaywireRR
January 16, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this
I shake my head every time I take a p* on the AJC…
By fan
January 17, 2006 07:24 AM | Link to this
SINCERE APOLOGIES DOB, I want to completely take back my stupid out of body experience comment about the movie reference. I have no idea why I wrote that, and I apologize. It is not who I am nor how I do appreciate the fine writing and journalism you provide.
By Carroll
January 17, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
James: I remember one time back in the 1998 playoffs when Kevin Brown came in to close out a game for the Padres against us. (That was back in Brown’s hay-day). The result: little Michael Tucker crushed a game-sealing 3-run homer for the Braves. Not everyone has the mentality to close…even if they do have nasty hard stuff (see Kyle Farnsworth). But it could be worth a shot at the right price.
I liked the idea of Jamey Wright. He is a younger, hard throwing guy who has never seemed to fullfill his potential as a starter. Maybe closing would allow him to blossum (see Eric Gagne).
By James
January 17, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this
Carroll I agree with you about Wright.Some Starting Pitchers don’t have the mental makeup to close but some can.Smoltz and Gagne did.I think Thompson would be a good closer altho to me hes a good starting pitcher. Before he got hurt he was great and it took him awhile after his injury to get in the groove but his last two games were like the old thompson which is good.But there is many adverage starting pitchers out but only a few can probably close. They have to have the makeup of getting the ball across the plate and don’t walk people and a good fastball with a wicked pitch splitter or changeup.But they are out there and JS will address that all before opening day. He will also improve the Bench.
By Ron Roberts
January 17, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
HAHAHAHA, I must be overlooking it in your NUMEROUS posts… which city’s teams do you pull for?
Why won’t you answer that?
Back to the more knowledgeable, mature and educated discussion (and bloggers) here…
As I’d said before, I’m just not excited at the (non) moves in the offseason. That being said, there is a certain logic to what Schuerholz is doing, and (I think) hoping for this year…
I think he feels this team is stronger, top-to-bottom of the lineup, than last year’s squad, that not having a bonafide closer right now (as was certainly the case last season before Farnsworth) won’t be as detrimental. What I’m saying is, we were a marginal .500 ballclub through the first 2-3 months of the season with a lousy closer last year, and we’re an overall better ballclub this year even with no proven closer at all.
I think he’s believing this year’s team will far at least as well, and maybe a little better, than it did last season in the early going. At that time, he’s hoping (my belief) to pull off a mid-season or trade deadline deal for another team’s closer. There’ll assuredly be guys available from teams out of contention come June, July or August.
Now, as for that moron’s assertion that Atlanta, the AJC, Atlanta’s fans give their teams free passes for failures…
Having beena lifelong fan of the Braves, Falcons (and God I hate to even admit this…) Hawks, I can attest to the fact that this city has done no such thing. I can remember empty stadiums and arenas greeting lousily-run franchises in this market… and it wasn’t that long ago.
Falcons fans only started filling the Georgia Dome when Vick arrived. Even in the 1998 Super Bowl year, we weren’t selling out Falcons games until it was apparent we were a playoff team.
The Hawks were the class of the Eastern Conference in the early 90s, had the #1 seed, and still weren’t selling out the little Omni on a regular basis. And c’mon, who’s “settling” for what the Hawks provide us now? Philips Arena is regularly near-vacant for their games. So the fans have spoken by not going. As for the media, who’s writing GLOWING reviews of this team and its players?
As for Bobby Cox & the Braves, a growing number of fans are showing their dis-interest in the team’s regular-season-only performance, by not even getting emotionally involved in their birth-right playoff push, as has been evident by yearly attendance declines and playoff no-shows. But it’s my belief that if you know what you’re talking about when it comes to the Braves, its ownership, and its braintrust, it’s hard to blame Schuerholz and/or Cox for the Braves’ shortcomings the past few seasons.
They are constrained, financially and the other GMs out there doing their dealing know this going into negotiations. It gives them an upper hand in many cases.
But I’m completely mystified at those who want to point to last season’s squad and Bobby Cox’s performance and scream for his head. He took a team that used 18 rooks on a fairly consistent basis, had not proven closer, a lousy bullpen (given to him by a GM hamstrung by ownership that could care less whether this team wins playoff games), injuries and he still won this franchise a division and a ticket to the postseason.
Listen, if we had a loaded squad, with a bullpen that struck fear in opponents, then I could see the niticking on Cox’s managerial style. But he hasn’t had a team like that in years, and even when he did, we spend so much time dwelling on our underperformance that we overlook the teams in the other dugouts to give them credit.
But to say Atlanta fans give their teams free passes is ridiculous. We voice our displeasure… we boo, we blog, we often don’t show. But we’re fans, nontheless, and we want better and implore our franchises to be better. And when they fall short of our hopes and dreams, we let ‘em know about it, quite fine, thank you.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
January 17, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
Ron, I agree with you. The non-activity really bothers me. Maybe JS and Cox believe what they have is good enough. Maybe they know these kids are tough enough to avoid sophmore slumps. Maybe they know a legit closer is going to emerge in time for the season. I just don’t know. I do know the other than Renteria (which I do think was a great move) that the Braves have done little. I will believe the Mets are for real when I see it but Philly however is a good team hungry for success. It just has been way too quiet for my taste.
By Greg
January 17, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
I see we signed Marcus Giles to a one year deal. Great. We saved a little money this year, a year we had some extra cash.
Now Giles becomes a FA in November. He’ll walk, because Schuerholz won’t negotiate with him until the Yankees or Red Sox have offered him $10M.
Why have we not tied up one of the finest all around 2B in the game? What are we waiting for?
By Carroll
January 17, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this
Greg: maybe Gily didn’t want a long term deal. He does have that right, ya know. I think he’s a so-cal boy who wants to return home and play alongside his bro in San Diego next year. Maybe JS will be smart and accomodate that wish now via trade so as we can actually get something for him. I don’t want him to go away (unless he nets us a top notch closer) but I’d certainly rather trade him now and get something.
By Ala Jim
January 17, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
DOD; Your Blog and these Posts tastes like chicken salad to me.
By Jack Blaisdell
January 17, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
David:
You haven’t seen the best movie of the year until you’ve seen “Crash.” Typical that it’s been overlooked. Came out WAY back in April-May. Who can remember THAT far back, right ?
What’s your take on this Joey Devine kid? He’s probably the “closer of the future” as it were, but you mentioned something about an injury? Arm related? If the Braves DON’T make a move for a closer, would it be because they figure Devine is just about ready ?
Thanks for whatever input you can provide.
By Ace
January 17, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this
DOB I appreciate the info you give during the slow days of winter. I don’t know that I want the Braves to overpay for a “proven closer.” That didn’t turn out so well last winter. It seems that many teams have just as much success developing one.
HAHA or whatever: It doesn’t matter where you live - your problem is that you are some bitter old dude who really needs to get a life.
By Jim from TN
January 17, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this
DOB, I think your a little skewed but pretty close on your movie choices. Oscar will go to “Cinderella Man” Crowe is oscar gold. Only a nomination for “munich”. 40 year virgin while funny, the nature of the movie will take it out of consideration. see “american pie”.
By Braves fan
January 17, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this
I’ll admit I was disappointed that the Braves didn’t get Hoffman or Wagner. But other than those two guys, I would rather use Boyer as the closer. I mean, where do closers come from anyway. They are usually pitchers that weren’t expected to be in that role, but show a knack for it and then it becomes their job. That’s what I expect to happen here. Boyer will step in after Reitsma struggles and then it’ll be his job.
By Rick
January 17, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave:
Speaking of a movies, what about this for some titles-events for 2006 and beyond ?
Walk the Line – Braves going into the season with no proven (reliable) closer Million Dollar Baby – Jeff Francoeur after his next contract The Constant Gardener – Dan Kolb after his current contract expires Cinderella Man – Roger McDowell, if the pitching continues to excel
By mark
January 17, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this
While I don’t necessarily have the level of abrassiveness as Ha Ha, I have to agree with some of his comments. This city, over the past few years, has become content with winning the Division. While I agree that this is pretty impressive to do over 15 years, at what point do people stop saying “oh it will be ok, we’ll get them next year, it was a heck of a season, at least we won the division.” At what point do people start saying “that’s awesome,BUT what are we gonna do about winning it all next year?” Somebody put that other than Joe Torre, Cito Gaston is the only other manager to win two WS. How many managers in their career have 15 consecutive times to win more than one? You would think that if nothing else at least luck would be on Atlanta’s side to win another one. Noone else can say they’ve had near the opportunites the Braves have had to win the WS. Face it though people until the salary cap goes up there’s no hope of winning a WS. If you stop and think about it BC and JS have done a pretty good job with what they’ve been given. Can you imagine if they had another 20 million to work with? Can you imagine if they had somewhere in the neighborhood of Boston’s or New York’s pay roll? It’s obvious that money doesn’t buy championships (see NY) but wouldn’t you think that would/should reflect on the manager? Most of the time you get what you pay for and until the Braves are willing to pay for a “stud” a “dud” is all they’ll get.
By Jman
January 17, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
Trade Marcus Giles!!!
By Jman
January 17, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
How about this? Wont happen, but I like it. Too much involved. Way too much involved for this to be realistic.
Giles, Davies, K. Johnson, and Langerhans
to Indians for
Coco Crisp, Jason Davis, Ronnie Belliard
Jason Davis is a hard throwing starter who the Indians are trying to convert into reliever/closer. He has closer type stuff. Very hard thrower. Coco would be a great addition to lead off and Belliard has had two consecutive great years. (Easily comparable to Gilley.
By AZBravoFan
January 17, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this
I think everyone should take a step back and a deep breath over this closer situation. 2 things to consider: 1) Does anyone recall seeing Mariano Rivera in the World Series last year? 2) The White Sox won the World Series. Who exactly was their proven closer? There are enough talented arms on this team for someone to step up and take the job at least for a little while. And if not, if they have to mix and match and close by committee for a while, there WILL be someone available at the trade deadline if need be.
I’m intrigued by the Kevin Brown idea if he’s healthy.
By David O'Brien
January 17, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
Jim: I agree with you on Crash _ outstanding movie. Definitely one of my top 3-4 for 2006.
Jack: I know 40-Year-Old Virgin won’t win Oscar, and neither will Hustle & Flow. Just pointing out what I thought were a couple of the most entertaining movies. Not Oscar-type films, especially the bawdy comedy. But I did think 40-Year-Old Virgin was better than American Pie.
Speaking of “Jacks” and 40-Year-Old Virgins, don’t you love the couple of bloggers who keep coming back and replying to every attack of their posts? You know who you are; I don’t have to name you. You’ll respond to this, too. Come on. Bring more of that nonsensical noise.
Oh, and for the dude who says he pays for this blog. Who, exactly, are you paying? Hate to be the one to break this to you, but the rest of the folks here might be paying for internet access, but not for taking part in this blog.
But we appreciate your business.
By David O'Brien
January 17, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
Oh, almost forgot:
Greg, Marcus Giles won’t be a free agent until after the 2007 season. He’s only got a little over 4-1/2 years service time; you need six to be a FA.
By David O'Brien
January 17, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
Damn. Typo there: Jim, meant to say Crash one of my top 3-4 for 2005, obviously. Not ‘06.
Now I’ve got three straight posts here, fodder for a certain less-than-imaginative blogger to suggest I hog more space here than any of those replying.
Then again, when I don’t reply, there are the comments critical of the non-responses. Oh, well. It’s a rough world out there in blogland. Someone’s got to wade in. I can take it.
By Keith
January 17, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
Everyone always says the Braves don’t draw to post-season games because of the Brave’s lack of success. That is not the case. Atlanta is a family town. The Braves draw crowds during the summer when school is out and they die down when school returns. And yes, back in 1991 when winning the division was new, people were willing to let their kids miss school (or be asleep at school the next day) for a once in a lifetime opportunity. Now that it has become an every year thing, parents aren’t so eager to have them miss school. The Braves don’t draw major crowds in April or May, nor September. Let’s just hope that year-around school doesn’t come to pass!
By BB FAN
January 17, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves have done alright so far this off season. Renteria is a clutch player. Hopefully that helps in the post season. If Smoltz, Hudson and Thomson stay healthy, the starting pitching should be more than enough with the Jones’ offense to make a run at that elusive 2nd WS title.
About the lack of post season wins…some people do not understand that the post season really has become a crapshoot. Who ever is hot at teh right time wins. Who would have ever picked the D’Backs in ‘01, the Angels in ‘02, the Marlins in ‘03, Red Sox in ‘04 and the White Sox in ‘05? All of those teams got hot in the post season. Even the might (expensive) Yankees have not won the WS since 2000. For the Braves to make it to 14 straight post seasons is amazing. ANd there were some of those teams that did not belong. And most of the Braves teams have not had the dominate bullpen to win in the post season. Soem due to injuries or others due to lack of performance. That happens. I’ll state it again, only one team can win out of 30.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
January 17, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
I agree about the playoffs. They are like the NCAA basketball tournament. It is whoever can get hot. I mean come on. How many times does THE best team really win? I love N.Carolina but I have a feeling they would lose 4 out of 7 times to Illinois if that had been in the reg. season.
By SpecialEd
January 17, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
OK, since you say that it’s whichever team that gets ‘hot’ going into the postseason that usually wins—let’s just suppose the Braves get ‘hot’ going into the ‘06 postseason—are they going to win with this discount bullpen and no closer, which is looking even worse than last seasons disaster?—Schuerholz has done nothing to fix this problem—might as well sell the Braves if they can’t afford to compete!…
By joec
January 17, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
dear dob, why wouldn’t the braves be intereseted in signing shigatosi hasegawa. he closed some games for seattle a couple years ago and has always been a good guy out of the bullpen. he would probably come fairly cheap since he has been on the market for a while with no takers. also why couldn’t langerhans leadoff and marcus hir 6th or 7th, i think he could drive in more runs lower in the order and langerhans seems to be more patient at the plate.
By SouthernJackAssRadioPersonalityGoneHaywireRR
January 17, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
DOB…You’re a swell guy, you exude the true southern character that the entire world has come to covet and to admire…So benelovent, courteous, and humble…One of the best journalists of modern times!…I want to be just like you someday…OOPS!!!..Sorry!…there I go being nonsensical and unimaginative again…
By SouthernJackAssRadioPersonalityGoneHaywireRR
January 17, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
Benevolent…had to correct my spelling, didn’t want to write like Radio Ron!…
By LeTwan Anthony
January 17, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
Sorry, joec, a player named, shigatosi hasegawa, will never play fof the Braves. Can you imagine the nickname? Oh, the humanity! Now, brewerfan, keep on sending us those pitchers to make up some for sending us Kolb last year. Maybe you can throw in Turnbow now that the Kolber is back in Brewtown. Robert, ready for a Chipper story? LeTwan feels the need to tell one about now. LeTwan is depressed that the pen is still a mess and all the “name” closers are gone now. Who will succeed Reitsma? Boyer or Devine, take your pick. Oops, LeTwan sounds a little like Booger in that one.
By Ron Roberts
January 17, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
Hey SouthernJackAssMoronKnuckleDraggin’GoatPoppinCousinLover…
Why don’t ya, I don’t know, contribute to the discussion instead of logging on solely to make back-handed insults at people?
You remind me of those two old codgers on the ol’ Muppet Show, up in the balcony, contributing not a damn thing, but just cracking jokes.
They weren’t funny, either, and apparently had nothing better to do with their lives.
By T
January 17, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this
Couple things:
It goes hand-in-hand, drop the payroll to a level that’s hard to compete for CHAMPIONSHIPS and the attendence and support will drop as well.
Reitsma as a closer? Give me a break! The closer role was the #1 need in this off season. We got a SS after letting one go because of $$$ and have a young SS on the bench. Renteria ok move, but it was not a pressing need.
Closers are paramount to success on team’s in winning a division and more importantly post season success.
As far as Bobby Cox is concerned, love him or hate him… he is what he is as a manager. But he does not answer questions after games about poor coaching moves. I was in the local sports media for years and covered many post game locker room sound bites from Bobby and the players. Bobby answers the same 3 questions night in and night out. If asked specific questions about a move in the game (and I did), Mr. Cox verbally dances around the question more than a politian about to go on trial! HAHAHAHA is right about that point as it pertains to Bobby Cox and the media. If you don’t belive this ask anyone who is currently in the sports media…
The Braves have been “My team” since the mid to late 70’s, but the last 5 years have been hard to take with all of the cutbacks and undelivered promises from JS. (example: everytime JS talks about improving his team with quality players that he proclaims to provide his team. WHERE ARE THEY? It has been a one way door for the last 6-7 years as far as “quality players”!
UGH!
By Ron Roberts
January 17, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this
T, I agree with you … when payroll drops and the (percieved) on-field quality doesn’t improve, attendance drops, and then we find our ownership dropping payroll more, etc. etc.
As for how the local media handles Bobby Cox, I too, have been in a few post-game Q&A’s w/him, and I’ve done so at college and pro football games, too, but I don’t find the media’s treatment of Cox any different than what I’ve seen anywhere else, and face it, the national media’s there, too, quite often, and they don’t change the vibe.
Don’t get me wrong… we don’t have that ingratiating NYC media with a half dozen reports-per game-per paper, and five TV stations, the national cable media, etc. etc., so it’s hard to compare ATL to NYC, anyhow.
But, for all that, the media asks their questions, Bobby answers ‘em (or dances around ‘em, if he chooses to), and the media has the choice to needle him more about it, or accept his answer. Apparently, they tend to accept his answer. Even if the theory didn’t work, it’s not always a bad theory, ya know?
As for Reitsma in the closer role…. before he was worn down towards the end of the season, he actually did a fairly decent job in the role. I don’t think he’s a season-long answer at closer, but I do think Schuerholz and Cox will use him in that role until they either ‘make’ one out of the youngsters in the ‘pen, or find one through a mid-season trade.
By SouthernJackAssRadioPersonalityGoneHaywireRR
January 17, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this
Roberts, try loosening your panties, and a dose of Midol…