Braves

By T-bone

November 21, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this

David, How about Ichiro for our leadoff spot if we don’t re-sign Furcal? I just read from Dayn Perry on FoxSports that he wants to be traded.

By magman

November 21, 2005 05:18 PM | Link to this

DOB, excellent blogs lately. Love to see baseball stuff even though I know it’s football time. Chipper takes a lot of heat from people who obviously have an agenda of some sort. I have been a Braves fan since 1956 and he is in the top ten who have played for the team during that period of time. Thanks for keeping us up with what’s going on.

By john

November 21, 2005 05:19 PM | Link to this

Forget the money. Chipper is a liability for this team. They should have traded him two seasons ago. We need a playoff leader.

By Jim

November 21, 2005 05:24 PM | Link to this

Hey Dave, To tell you the truth i don’t think JS is going to use the loan from chip to buy furcal or hoffman, i still think he is looking somewhere else, not as obvious. What are the chances of getting brian giles reasonably priced? he is 34 years old, That would also help when it comes time to resign marcus. Slide Brian in the leadoff spot with that .435 OBP and 100+ walks. Just a thought.

By Adam

November 21, 2005 05:24 PM | Link to this

It’ll take more than one comment for the Ms to let Ichiro go. Sucks that they signed Jojima; we lost a possible trading partner, with regards to Johnny Estrada.

Speaking of which, David O’Brien, have the Braves continued to shop Estrada and Reitsma? How about Thomson? And would the D’Backs eat some of Javier Vazquez’s sizeable contract for him to come to the Braves, in exchange for any combination of the three mentioned above?

Lastly, though I’m from Broward (Lauderhill, just a few minutes away from where the Panthers play), I became a Braves fan before the Marlins even existed. I wouldn’t have it any other way. They can keep their two World Series victories. We have a few in store for us, I believe.

By Hayden

November 21, 2005 05:27 PM | Link to this

Nice column, but wow did you use the word “anyway” too many times.

By Joe

November 21, 2005 05:29 PM | Link to this

I think Chipper has made a stand up move here. Let no one question his desire to win ever again. I hope the money that Chipper has given up does to a good cause: namely Raffy and a closer.

It would be nice to see JS get into the BJ Ryan sweepstakes. Though, the Braves gave a chance to Kolb after a couple of good seasons and a handful of mediocre ones. Are the Braves willing to take another chance on a guy who really hasn’t proved a thing?

I didn’t see the Mule concert, David, but I’ve seen my share of Warren Haynes as a member of ABB and Phil Lesh & Friends. He is indeed quite a musician.

By Eric

November 21, 2005 05:31 PM | Link to this

What an upstanding citizen. Chipper has ALWAYS been my favorite player, and what he did friday just reinforced that. Great Guy. If we win the World Series next year, you could very easily make the argument that it was largely Chippers selfless act that got us over the hump. Anyways, I love Ichiro, he would be electric, think of the range in the O.F. Scarrrrrrrrrry.

By AC

November 21, 2005 05:35 PM | Link to this

Good info. Maybe Chipper should have had a clause in that new deal specifying the money had to be spent on Furcal ! Now if they could get him to play first base…

Gov’t Mule may have been good…. but U2 rocked!

By Carroll

November 21, 2005 05:35 PM | Link to this

Eric: yeah with he and AJ, we could just go with two outfilders and throw Orrsy and WB into the middle of the diamond to replace the range we’ll lose with furcal going bye bye. lol.

By Wilson

November 21, 2005 05:37 PM | Link to this

john, you are CRAZY. There is no “liability” about Chipper. He is, hands down, one of the best members of our team, and an elite baseball player. He has a lifetime average of .303, a lifetime on-base percentage of over .400, a lifetime slugging percentage of nearly .600. Granted, he has been hurt some the last couple of years, but injuries are part of the game. In healthy years, he bats .300, hits 30+ home runs, scores 100+ runs, drives in 100+ runs. Now, he goes and proves what a team player he is by restructuring his deal in order to improve the team. His defense has improved drastically since he moved back to third, and his offensive production is as reliable as any player in the majors. The extent of his playoff failures is a lifetime .284 postseason batting average, with 24 RBI in 38 career games, which would figure out to 102 over a 162-game season. Should he play 7 or 8 more seasons at his current average production, he’ll have a good shot at 3000 hits (and an automatic ticket to Cooperstown). Yeah, what a stiff. Chipper should never wear any other uniform, and he will go down as one of the greatest Braves of all time. You should either open your eyes or shut your mouth.

By Jim

November 21, 2005 05:38 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Ichiro is realistic for Atlanta. Seattle would probably want something crazy like both joneses,smoltzie, and the rights to everyone in double and triple A. If he goes anywhere it’ll be a big market like NY or LA.

By Carroll

November 21, 2005 05:43 PM | Link to this

Jim: I just might consider that trade…..get one of the great, pure hitters in the game, get rid of the huge contracts of those aging stars (would hate to lose AJ but wouldn’t be a deal breaker); there’s nobody all that special at richmond I don’t think; I might hedge on the AA thing though. lol.

By deadhead

November 21, 2005 05:48 PM | Link to this

oh yeeeahhh. govt mule was too damn good saturday night.

By Voice of Reason

November 21, 2005 05:53 PM | Link to this

I do appreciate the gesture by Chipper toward giving the braintrust some wiggle room in which to operate given their self-imposed cap. I am a Chipper fan and believe that he is a threat any time he steps up to the plate. That being said, the length of his contract now concerns me. I’ll echo the sentiment of one of my fellow bloggers when I say that we don’t need to look up in a couple of years and see Chipper with his walker at 3B when there are prospects in line at his position. If this were a position of weakness in the organization, my opinion might be different. The Braves, however have two bona-fide Major League prospects at 3B in Andy Marte and Eric Campbell. At some point in time they will have to be played or dealt. Since JS became GM, the Braves have had a trend of not letting their veterans get too old. JS has masterfully mixed the kids with the veterans making a generally seamless transition year after year. This, I believe, is one of the many keys to their long run of success. I hope the same trend continues into the future.

By Roy

November 21, 2005 05:56 PM | Link to this

I keep seeing Orr mentioned as a 2B solution if Giles is traded, here and in other blogs. Are you guys nuts? Stone hands and no way he hits playing everyday. Sure he can run, but Orr is not an everyday ML player. I think WB can handle ss if Furcal goes. How about signing Damon as FA to play LF? Good leadoff hitter.

By tokyobrave

November 21, 2005 06:02 PM | Link to this

You know Smoltz and Andruw basically did the same thing several years ago when they signed their contracts. Look at Andruw, he signed several years ago a long term deal but otherwise could have played year to year like a lot of guys and after this past season, would have been in Beltran numbers and adios Atlanta. Smoltz of course told the Yankers good bye too when he was offered more dough. Stand up gesture for Chipper. He’s basically saying I’ve got enough money, now lets win the freaking Championship. Is 10 mil better than 8 mill after you’ve already made 40-50 million? These guys are wanting to stay, we as fans need to support them when ever possible - especially during the playoffs and in print and presence. I personally would rather get a solid closer that we can rely on than resign Furcal if that were our options. We have talent on the way to take his spot, but with a reliable bullpen we do better than we did last year. Furcal didn’t win many games, but the bullpen sure lost a lot.

By Leah

November 21, 2005 06:07 PM | Link to this

Why I think Chipper did what he did: Two reasons — he has never played for any other team professionally, so he wants to do his best to stay with one team and because he believes the Braves are the team that gives him the best shot at keeping his record (always being in the postseason) intact. I’ll commend Chipper for it. You don’t see stuff like this everyday. He could also be doing this to give his team the best possible chances at keeping some of their better players and even if that’s not why he made his decision, it is an impact his decision will have.

By Wilson

November 21, 2005 06:15 PM | Link to this

Tokyo, as for your feelings regarding Chipper, I couldn’t have said it better myself. I think the fans need to step up and show this team that Atlanta supports them and loves them, and that will in turn make Atlanta a fun and desirable place to play. I think that happened to an extent this past season, with the energy of the team’s young players and the excitement they created, but Atlantans need to keep it up. That’s why it’s exciting to hear that the fanbase has had a young infusion, because a new generation of excited (and increasingly prospeous) fans is emerging. As for Furcal, I agree that the incoming talent at SS is somewhat of a comfort, but what worries me is the complete lack of a serviceable leadoff hitter for the immediate future. Frankly, I don’t think Furcal will come back, and at the prices being tossed around, I wouldn’t want him to. So does that mean we’re looking at a rent-a-player like Julio Lugo for 2 years and $7-9 million?

By MW

November 21, 2005 06:28 PM | Link to this

good point, jim. i don’t see ichiro coming to atlanta, either. too much of a big name player, although i will say he seems very classy when it comes to the business side of the game.

i don’t think that ryan is overrated, or “a guy who really hasn’t proved a thing” as said by somebody in an earlier post, who said that kolb had a few good seasons and was questioning if the braves would go after a mediocre closer. first off — kolb was never dominating. he hasn’t had 222 strikeouts in 157 innings over the past two seasons; ryan has, because he’s a hard-throwing pitcher, not a sinkerballer who has to rely on a double play to get him out of an inning. but i don’t see ryan coming to atlanta; i think he’ll go to the mets or yankees, simply because of the money.

i agree with you, DOB, about the whole hoffman thing being unrealistic financially. but i’m more hopeful in getting hoffman than i am about getting furcal back, although it’d be a shame not to re-sign him after chipper restructuring his contract for that reason (among others). i see hoffman as somebody who could really help the bullpen, and not just because he’d the guy to close out games. he’s been playing for 12 years, so he’d bring some veteran leadership to a young relief staff. also, i think he’d jump at the opportunity to play under cox. he’s been playing since ‘93 and knows how hard it is for a team to compete year in and year out — he’s been with the padres every season but half of one, when he was with the marlins.

By T 2 the D

November 21, 2005 06:30 PM | Link to this

I think Chipper’s offer is bold for another reason: The Player’s Union typically frowns on players taking less (the major reason Glavine left, union man), and it would take the union heat off of our lil’ drunkard SS for shaving a year off any deal as long as the numbers would be consistant adding an option year. I personally would not keep Furcal. Benimet(?) will suffice at SS and since when under Bobby Cox has a LO man been a focal point? Pitching, defense, sit back and wait on the homer, thats Bobby ball.

By Wilson

November 21, 2005 06:41 PM | Link to this

I agree that Betemit is a more than adequate SS, and he still has considerable room to improve. I also see your point about Bobby ball, but that hasn’t always worked too well in years past, particularly in October. If Schuerholz continues to play his cards right (something in which I have the utmost faith), and some of the young pitching continues to develop, the ability to play small ball (and we get the bullpen figured out) is going to make the difference come October. Furcal’s offense made him a very valuable player this season (perhaps the most valuable on the team in the second half), and I think the team would miss him more than you seem to think. The price he seeks, however, is a bit steep, and the contract a bit too long. So, back to my original point…Who’s going to lead off next season?

By LeTwan Anthony

November 21, 2005 06:41 PM | Link to this

LeTwan is surprised that Kinzer represents both Furcal and Betemit. The restructuring was reported at the Braves website on the 18th. Anyway, LeTwan is happy if we can get a good bullpen thanks to Chipper Jones. Furcal will be a bonus if he stays. Raisins is right. There’s a lot of young talent as SS and 3B that will need to play or be dealt.

By Wilson

November 21, 2005 06:45 PM | Link to this

We definitely have some great young trade pawns, at SS and 3B, but we’re also probably the deepest organization in baseball at catcher. Could this be the year Schuerholz finally makes another big deadline trade?

By LeTwan Anthony

November 21, 2005 06:54 PM | Link to this

Rafael Furcal, Marcus Giles and Chipper Jones hit a combined .175 in this year’s National League Division Series. What would be so bad about shaking things up some?

By Dominican-Atlantan

November 21, 2005 07:06 PM | Link to this

I do not think that Chipper will restructure his contract just for the sake of the Braves re-signing Rafael Furcal alone. Why is RF not giving something back by remaining a Brave for less money thanb another team is willing to pay him? I think he owes the Braves that much. IF he becomes another Glavine then good ridance! Then again, why do the Braves allow other teams to sign their players and manager because they’re not willing to make a reasonable offer?

By A Lifer

November 21, 2005 07:09 PM | Link to this

I will be very interested to see what the Braves braintrust does with the extra money Chipper has “given” back to the club (provided he passes his physical). One thing that bothers me DOB: If chipper is doing this to help the Braves, why wait so long to complete the physical? Wouldn’t the Braves be better served if the physical was completed as soon as possible so they KNEW for sure how much money they really had to spend? Is it just as possible that Chipper was restructuring his contract so that he had the guaranteed contract that paid him money when all the bonefied (sp?) 3B prospects hit ATL? Now, assuming these prospects are all they are cracked up to be, what do the Braves do? Trade away all their young talent? They would have to wouldn’t they?—Chipper is a 10/5 guy.

Now, about that fire sale in Miami…any idea if the Braves are trying to get anyone from Florida? Do you still have any contacts down in Miami that might be able to “leak” something to you that might, at the very least, indicate the Braves have put out some feelers? I know there are some guys on that club the Braves could use. With all the public press about a fire sale in Florida, do you think that also gives the Braves a better chance at signing Todd Jones? (He has indicated that his teams of choice are ATL and FLA). Thanks for the comments. I look forward to your resonse.

By Booger

November 21, 2005 07:14 PM | Link to this

Bobby will find somebody to hit leadoff. He has several from which to pick. If he goes mining, maybe he’ll pick Orr. If he goes trolling, maybe he’ll pick Gilly. If Furcal stays, he can just stick him back at leadoff. He has a lot of good picks he can make. You can bet he’ll be taking notes during the spring. With Bobby Cox, every note is a post-it note.

By john hoar

November 21, 2005 07:15 PM | Link to this

David, nice article. Regardless of how someone feels about Chipper-still a nice article. I also appreciate the position on terminating the last blog. I hate to say this, but since we went free the quality of the comments have deteriorated. That’s not to say that I have had anything to offer that was unique but since the playoffs the responses have been pretty bad. I tried to scan over the hundred plus of the last one and decided that was it for me. Don’t really know why I looked again today, just hooked I guess, and was pleasantly surprised. We’ll see….

Carroll, you may not recall but I hardly ever agree with you, but, I have to admit that your two man outfield and left shortstop, right shortstop, and second baseman combination was not only funny but innovative. Wonder what the rules would say about that?

By allgray

November 21, 2005 07:30 PM | Link to this

Hey Dave, why don’t you tell us some real news instead of this hashed over Chipper Jones stuff that’s been out on the wire for over a week. The real news is not Chipper — we all know and appreciate that he’s the consummate team player — but what JS is going to do with the money saved from Chipper’s bloated contract. That’s the real story here.

By Mark

November 21, 2005 07:31 PM | Link to this

Kudo’s to Chipper , he is one classy Brave ! I just hope he can stay healthy for the whole season. How many times do I have to scream it. Pitching , pitching , we need more freaking pitching ! The defense and offense is good to go. Build a bullpen , get a reliable closer and let the prospects fight for a job in spring training. I hope JS doesnt trade more of our young talent , I’m sick of the braves bleeding talent all over the major leagues ( see the current 30-35 braves draft picks on somebody elses roster ). Signing furcal is financialy unrealistic. We have Betemit, Pena jr., Hernandez, Escobar and Elvis Adrus stockpiled at short stop.

By Carroll

November 21, 2005 07:32 PM | Link to this

John: it’s actually been done quite a bit in instances where you have a tie game in the bottom of the ninth, winning run at 3rd and less than 2 out…a deep fly ball ends the game anyway so managers usually bring in one of the outfielders to play right behind the 2nd base bag.

By HAROLD LEE SCOTT

November 21, 2005 07:44 PM | Link to this

DAVID, YOU HAVE MADE MY DAY. I ADMIRE CHIPPER FOR THE MOVE HE IS MAKING, WHICH SHOWS ME HE IS A TRUE BRAVE. I HOPE THE BRAVES TAKE THIS ATTITUDE THAT THE PLAYERS REALLY WANT TO WIN AND ARE LOYAL TO THEIR OWN. I FEEL THIS IS WHAT MOST OF THE TEAM WANTS. MAKE THE RIGHT DEALS. KEEP THE TEAM BASICLY WHAT THEY WERE AND JUST IMPROVE WHAT THEY HAVEAND CAN. CONTINUE TO STRESS TEAM AND EFFORT AND ATTITUDE AND PULLING FOR EACH OTHER. THIS IS WHAT HELPED THEM LAST YEAR. AND IMPROVE WHERE EVER THEY CAN.

By David O'Brien

November 21, 2005 07:51 PM | Link to this

Hey Allgray, uh, it hasn’t been on the wire for a week, because I’m the one who wrote the story. The “wire” stories _ AP and anywhere else you look _ attribute it to the AJC, and it was posted Thursday night. Sorry, but if you want to find it posted a week ago anywhere, I’d be interested to see it.

As for the “real news” of what he’s going to do with the money _ uh, do you want me to just make predictions, or what? Because it’d be kinda hard to report the “real news” of what he’s doing with the money, when so much hinges on Rafael Furcal, whose agent, as I wrote, literally got back from the Dominican this afternoon after having shut down negotiations for a week.

It’s still the Cubs, Braves and Mets in the running for Furcal. Sorry if the reality of negotiations isn’t good enough for you. Didn’t mean to rehash, if that’s how you viewed it. Should we just make up news for you? OK, he’s going to spend the extra money on Ichiro and Hoffman. There, that’s it. I’ll call John S. now and tell him we couldn’t wait any longer for the actual developments, so we spent the money. Tell Furcal’s agent it’s over, because Allgray needed the “real news.”

Whatever. Thanks for reading.

By A Lifer

November 21, 2005 08:01 PM | Link to this

DOB: I look forward to your mid-blog responses, please don’t waste them on someone who is just not at all in tune with how you report. For those of thus that want to hear your “actual news”, we’ve missed out. I hate to say, but, I think you encourage antagonizers to continue to drag down the quality of this blog when you respond to them. Thanks again for your blogs, look forward to hearing reports.

By Kevin

November 21, 2005 08:08 PM | Link to this

Good move by Chipper to help the team, contracts like he signed are hard to move and it does show a desire to help out the team. Would Manny have done this in Boston? Giambi or Sheff? With the money it is obvious we need to shore up the bullpen and possibly replace Raffy if he leaves. JS does play his cards close to the vest, remember that in August and September scouts are not just looking at possible playoff opponents but potential help in the next season. If Raffy leaves I believe it is to the Cubs, the divison is falling apart, the Phillies are talking of moving Thome and Arbreu, Florida, please get rid of both your hard throwers and burn out Willis, The Nats have no leadership, and the mets are well the mets, Pedro is one DL trip from ruining their season. If one looks at the people who are being mentioned about in trades, Estrada, Thompson, Reitsma, Johnson, you are not talking about breaking up the core of the team. One name I would not be surprised to hear at the winter meetings is Zito, Beane could get a fortune from anyone who goes after him. I am not saying Atlanta would go after him but who knows. I would offer Hoffman, 2 years say 8 a year and groom Devine or James for the closer role. Hoffman would be in my opinion alot like Smoltz was to younger pitchers, try to help them but also led by example plus he gets great PR as clubhouse guy, something the Braves want anyway. Davies, Lerew and possibly Rameriz could improve this year. Sosa is one I would look to move, the reason is we have plenty of young options and his value would never be any higher, teams like Texas need pitching but have nothing we would take in return, this is where the three team deals begin. The Braves have a lot of commodities and they will use them to fill out the team, I know we all want to win and are disappointed with this season but I feel the future is bright and we can still be consistently in the playoff hunt. LeTawn thanks for the kind words in the last blog.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 21, 2005 08:26 PM | Link to this

Allgray, don’t let the slings and arrows bring you down. Folks at the paper are a little testy right now with circulation plummeting and the Governor’s Office charging the editorial department with hypocrisy and censorship. Understand that the Home Depot may be pulling its ads, too. LeTwan is sure that when there is some news the AJC will pick it up and share it with us.

In the meantime, we can speculate on what will happen. LeTwan is of the opinion that the Braves would like to keep Furcal for maybe one more season but if they can’t, that’s okay because they have so much talent at the position. Before Chipper restructured LeTwan would have told you Furcal is gone. Probably still is.

Chipper is hard to read. He wants to stay in Atlanta and he has his guarantee now. He’s the consummate team player who says he won’t move to another position to make room for the team’s top prospect. Not sure how to read that one. One thing LeTwan notices, you’ve got DOB, uh, writing like Chipper.

By Carroll

November 21, 2005 08:54 PM | Link to this

I guess as much as we b*** and moan about the Braves (especially me), one thing you cn always say about them…at least they’re not the Falcons. What an embarrasment of a franchise ever since it’s inception. They gave us a smidge of hope last year and early on this year, but at the end of the day, they’ll always be the sorry a$$ foulcons.

By Booger

November 21, 2005 09:05 PM | Link to this

Carroll, interesting that you would bring it up. Marion Campbell had a peculiar habit that forever will link the Falcons and Braves franchises. Know what it was?

Bet you will pick up on it real quick.

Despite their similarities, Bobby has been far more successful than The Swamp Fox.

By JB

November 21, 2005 09:08 PM | Link to this

Gov`t Mule rocks man…..Warren Haynes and Chipper…..two great southern gentlemen. P hope they use the money to sign Furcal

By steve

November 21, 2005 09:19 PM | Link to this

Why is everyone so down on chipper, he has been a great team lead for years and has made a great contribution to the team to try to help the get back to the playoffs again. I say let furcal go and use the money to get bullpen help and another power hitter and some speed. I think we need to keep giles though, he is like the spark plug of the team, he has lots of energy and gives his best every game no matter the score.

By Colonel Roberts

November 21, 2005 09:21 PM | Link to this

I’ve known Southern Gentlemen. Southern Gentlemen have been my friends. Suh, Chipper Jones is a ballplayer. He is no Southern Gentleman.

By james

November 21, 2005 09:25 PM | Link to this

Chipper is the leader of this team. He has stepped up again in his leadership role. I don’t knoiw about you but I have never had an employee offer to work for less money. I respect his dedication.

By dannycardwell

November 21, 2005 09:47 PM | Link to this

david, good article. ive never been a chipper fan until this last year, listening to his agent bb abott. chipper has matured a lot and is the third baseman for a few more years. a very good third baseman. he also has one of the classiest agents. when i look at scott boras and his counterpart in football, tos agent, it is very refreshing to me to see a player and level headed agent looking at more than the money. to schuerholtz, forget furcal, he will never live up to his potential. florida has two starters that can go more than 6 innings for sale. get one of them. and a closer. mr abbott, i am impressed and hope to hear more from you on these articles. david, im impressed with you as well for the hard work. well done.

By Fletchdawg

November 21, 2005 09:51 PM | Link to this

I have a question. It’s base on my total ignorance regarding the fiscal part of this game. What if … mind you, I’m just saying “what if” … someone (Ted or a die-hard, rabid but wealthy Braves fan) decided to donate … oh, I don’t know … 15 million dollars, outside of the woeful AOL ownership cap, solely to help JS and Co. sign another big bat (Ichiro, Giles)? Is that even possible? I mean, if our cap was at 95 or 100 mil … still way less than some of the big spenders … that may give us the one or two missing links to get us past the division series. But is my scenario illegal and impossible? I’m asking because I simply don’t know how it works. And if it is possible … anyone feeling charitable?

By Tim

November 21, 2005 10:06 PM | Link to this

First time here commenting.

Chipper: Whether you like him or not his restructuring his contract will cost him some money and free up some for the organization. Furcal: My understanding is his agent is asking for 5 years at $50 mil. I can’t see the Braves going for more than 3 years with a 4th year option at $8 mil. per. From what I’ve been reading the Cubs will offer more than the Braves are willing to or IMHO should offer. Not sure how far off the Braves ss prospects are from being ready. Can the Braves afford to tie up the ss position with Furcal for 3 or 4 years with what they have coming up in the minors? Other than getting the Furcal situation resolved and upgrading the bullpen the Braves are really in a good position for next year. They are also in an excellent position to make some good trades. The scenarios are endless and would take more room and time than I have to go through.

By A Lifer

November 21, 2005 10:11 PM | Link to this

..i have $2.47 i can spare.

By Carroll

November 21, 2005 10:57 PM | Link to this

$5.00 here.

By David O'Brien

November 21, 2005 11:39 PM | Link to this

A Lifer _ good point. Sometimes I let it fly instead of just letting it roll off the back. But when they’re so off-base, you feel like responding.

Tim, I don’t disagree with you on Furcal and matter of tying up the position for more than a few years when you’ve got so many good young prospects coming up (the Braves’ Nos. 3-4 prospects, according to Baseball America, are both shortstops, Elvis Andrus and Yunel Escobar), and there’s others including the little Hernandez kid who’s a whiz with glove).

But on other hand, you’ve got to have a leadoff hitter NOW, and it’s tough trying to go into a season with someone who might or might not be able to do it (and I don’t think John S. would do that). Also, the Andrus kid is just 17, at least 3 years from being ready, and the Escobar dude is older Cuban, 23, but was only at Rome last year, so he’s realistically at least another year or two from being ready).

OK, so maybe they get a Lugo or Alex Gonzalez (the Marlins’ Gonzalez; especially now that it looks like they’re getting the SS from Boston in Beckett/Lowell trade, meaning they’re not going to even try to keep Gonzalez probably). But with Gonzalez, you still need a leadoff guy. He’s anything but a leadoff hitter _ he’s about a mid-.200s hitter with good pop for a SS, but nothing resembling a leadoff hitter. Does Kelly Johnson or Langerhans get on base enough? They could, probably, but again, it’s tough betting on that entering a season.

Lugo can hit leadoff, but there are obviously some off-field questions that might arise in that decision. But there’s plenty other guys, guys we don’t even know are available but things that could be going on behind the scenes as we speak.

Still, Furcal’s agent has been led to believe strongly by the Braves that they are still in it, and that’s even though they know where the bidding is probably headed with Cubs and, yes, Mets, who have a lot of stuff going on in other areas but are still apparently serious about Furcal.

As for closer, I think Devine or Boyer could do it in another year, but they need a guy now, a proven guy. So they need to spend money there. But look for at least three from the rookie relievers Devine, Boyer, lefties Chuck James and Macay McBride to make the bullpen, provided Boyer’s shoulder is good (and he was told at end of year it was just inflammation, not a surgery thing).

As for earlier blogger comment on Ichiro _ hey, it sounds entirely far-fetched, given his salary and all. But stranger things have happened. While I haven’t heard anything to that effect, I do know Bobby Cox has always loved Ichiro’s game, and it certainly would answer the leadoff need, thus making the re-signing of Furcal not so important, since the Braves have Betemit to play short if they have a leadoff hitter.

Anyway, can you just imagine an outfield with Andruw flanked by Ichiro in right and Francoeur in left, with Langerhans or Kelly Johnson as fourth outfielder? Wow, talk about defense. And talk about overall offensive production.

By OGreatSwamiofMLB

November 21, 2005 11:43 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t give a good s**!

By Eric

November 22, 2005 12:36 AM | Link to this

DOB— I totally agree, as I mentioned in an earlier response, that range and defense would be spectacular. Any team ever win 3 gold gloves in the outfield? lol

By Joe Roman

November 22, 2005 07:12 AM | Link to this

Come on, guys. Stop trying to shake the Chrtistmas presents. Things happen when they happen. The one thing that has happened is Chipper defining the term Class Act. I think Furkie is coming back. He’d go nuts playing for losers like the Cubs or Mets. I’ll take Dave’s word for it that his agent is a straight shooter, so I think he’ll mirror my sentiments about playing for the Cubbies or the Muts. Here’s an open question. With all the young talent slated to make small bucks for several years, wouldn’t defered money for free agents be a viable alternative?

By mountain_jim

November 22, 2005 08:32 AM | Link to this

I saw Gov’t Mule the weekend prev (Down On The Farm fest) with Ivan Neville, The Dirty Dozen Brass Band horns, and Karl Denson sitting in.

Good stuff!

Way to go Chipper and David way to put up with some of the crap folks post on here!

mj

By Get Real

November 22, 2005 08:47 AM | Link to this

Let me preface this by saying that I’m very glad Chipper did what he did, and I think it was a very nice gesture. That being said, people please! I’m starting to get nauseated with this love affair. Just to add a little perspective on what Chipper did, it would kinda be like if that North Korea tyrant decided to be nice and give up one of his nuclear weapons. Yes it would be nice, but at the end of the day, he’s still a tyrant with way too many w.m.d..

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this

DOB, I agree with your assessment of the Braves SS situation. A prospect that is 23, who is likely 2-3 years away…he will be relatively deep into his playing career, rafael is young and ready now. Andrus, 17, he would more than likely need 3 years to be ready, and playing the role of a bench player for a year wouldn’t hurt him either to get acclimated to the major league level. Signing furcal to 4 year deal is not depriving the Braves of moving forward. If anything, sign him for 4 years, and trade him 3 years later so tht you can get something for him. Just letting him go during free agency, yuo get nothing! Ok, even I have sit back in awe for a moment at the thought of a francoeur, jones, susuki outfield…ok, lapse over. Still interested to see what bullpen options JS/Bobby will consider/do. Thanks DOB.

By Del Young

November 22, 2005 09:18 AM | Link to this

It sure is nice to see baseball being discused here again instead of the junk that had taken over the blogs recently. Am looking forward to the real off-season trades and signings to begin and all the second guessing that activity will bring. Spring training is just around the corner!!

By Joe

November 22, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Get Real, but get real. The only perspective you offered the situation is a really poor one. I just don’t see how a dictator who gives up one of an unknown number of wmd’s is at all related to Chipper giving up 2/3 of his contract over the next three seasons. Here’s another perspective for you: Get Real’s ability to make an effective analogy of the Chipper situation is about as strong as W’s ability to say something that sounds intelligent.

By Rod

November 22, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

Chip did good by restructuring. Quick question DOB, (or anyone that can answer), is the restructuring hinging on the fact that the Braves will pursue Furcal, or was it done to simply free up money for JS to make the moves he feels need to be made? On the Ichiro front, my first thought was “could he come to Atl?” Same with Vazquez when he said he wanted out and wanted to go east. However, both have hefty contracts, and it would require the other team involved to pick up a chunck of the contracts. It has been done, i.e. Hampton. I honestly hate this time of year. No baseball on the field, and almost nothing but rumors off the field. JS has always put a winner on the field, and I have no reason to doubt he will do it again.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 22, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

Golly, gee, peaches. Since DOB mentioned that the youthful ss are not quite ready, many abandon the thought of the one who is ready - Betemit. He may not be a leadoff, but he can fill the void at ss. He hit .305 with 20 RBI while Chipper was out. He’s doing great in Dominican ball. Letting the kids play seems to make a lot of sense. Having Furcal and Chipper tied to the team by unwieldy contracts with all the talent coming up behind them makes little sense. Will JS forfeit more young talent for a rent-a-player in an effort to win the big one just one more time? Drew didn’t do it. Maybe someone else can. Unless the bullpen is fixed, though, it matters very little. Seems like it’s time to spend “Chipper’s Money” on the pen. Estrada might as well leadoff if the pen isn’t fixed.

By Jim

November 22, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

DOB: Does JS drive you guys crazy the way he and the organization can keep any deal in the works so quiet? The only way it ever gets out is if the other trading partner leaks it. He gives us nothing to go on. We have to go on rumors and other crap like “I heard JS ate at Japanese Resturant last nite”. Still he’s the best GM in baseball, so i’ll trust him. I just wish he’d give us something in this baseball armpit of the year. Back to bowling in league till april i guess.

By Carroll

November 22, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

Joe: giving up 2/3 of his contract?!! I have to agree with a previous blogger….get real.

By JT

November 22, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this

OK- your leadoff hitter is only guaranteed to lead off a game once- so why is it absolutely critical to have a prototypical guy in that spot? Of course you want a good hitter there, but in reality, you want a good hitter in your 1-8 spots. I think we get the best player for the money, and the lineup will take care of itself. We need bullpen help, and a closer.

By RemoW

November 22, 2005 10:46 AM | Link to this

To heck with the bashers. Chipper has been nothing but a stand up guy and a solid producer his whole career in Atlanta. Only a Brave’s fan could find a way to complain about a guy who has a lifetime 303 average and until last 2 year played almost every day.

Then again they complain about Andruw who plays every day, sore or not. continues to rack up the gold gloves, hits 30 dingers, has 90+ rbis just about every year and the fans want to get rid of him. Go figure.

In the modern age of baseball Atlanta has had 2 awesome class acts. Chipper Jones (who changed positions, now has offered to restructure his contract.) and Andruw (who blew off Boras and made a deal with the Braves on his own. (Go AJ.)

In the modern age of greed and almost 0 team loyalty the Braves are something special. Come spring training all the teams will say they have a chance to make the playoffs. Come October I know I will watch the Braves!!!

RemoW.

ps. Yes I watched when we couldn’t win 75 games much less the division. But not as long as Letwan.

By Kevin

November 22, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

Well just on ESPN Rumors that Vazquez is about to be traded to the East Coast, possibly by or before winter meetings. No teams were listed but you can eliminate the Yanks, Red Sox, Marlins, and who does that leave? Probably not coming here but JS always says we are a team of pitching and defense, I think that the Braves could offer the D-backs some talent and this type of trade could be where Hampton’s contract is moved. This is a great blog, thanks DOB, I enjoy talking with people about baseball and we seem to have some knowledgeable fans for the most part. JT good post about the prototypical leadoff man, raffy hits better I think in the 2 slot. Like I said before the money freed up will be spent well and the Braves will stay in contention for a long time. With Beckett gone, the fish are rebuilding or getting ready to move, the Nats will probably not have Robinson back and can they repeat last season and all those close wins, Philly is looking to overhaul an underachieving roster, and the mets remind me of the 1980’s Yanks—all big names, no chemistry.

By Del Young

November 22, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

Sure is good to see baseball being talked about in the blogs again instead of all that other junk that has been spewed forth for weeks now. Cann’t wait till all the trades and signings begin so we can start some serious second guessing. Spring training is just around the corner !!

By T Robb

November 22, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

Not only do we need a SS, we need a leadoff hitter. Yes, Betemit can play SS, and probably pretty well. But Furcal should have won the gold glove last year and he is a bonafide leadoff hitter.

We’re going to need to shell out bucks for a leadoff hitter, whether it’s Ichiro, Damon, Pierre or Furcal. I say make it Furcal. He’s done the things necessary to reconfigure his life. He played through a significant injury last year. He is a great ignitor for the offense. He’s a fabulous SS. And any one of those guys is gonna run you 8-10m (maybe not Pierre, so if not Furcal, that’s where I’d go.).

And there’s a continuity/loyalty thing there, too. Jamal Lewis feels like he got hosed by the Ravens when they told him they’d take care of him if he’d take his medicine. Carlos Delgado took less money in the first year to help out the Marlins, in good faith. No promises were made to Furcal that I’m aware of, but this franchise, in business matters, seems to have a measure of mutual respect between the guys who could get bigger money elsewhere but choose not to (Jones, Jones, Smoltz, Hudson) and the decision makers who give them an outstanding work environment and every opportunity to succeed.

I think Furcal is asking for that same type of treatment and I think he’s gonna get it. We’ll pay him nicely, maybe for longer than we had anticipated but not top dollar, and I think he’ll take it. And then we’ll have another $8m or so to upgrade the ‘pen.

I’d like to see the young guys get another year in LF/RF to see how they develop, which we can afford to do if we don’t need LF to leadoff. There were a lot of good things that came from Johnson, Langerhans and (obviously) Francoeur last year. I think we can win with them if we get some steady hands in the bullpen.

By Kevin

November 22, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this

Just saw on ESPN insider that Vazquez could be moved to an East Coast team by or before the winter meetings. Not saying he is coming here but you can eliminate the Yansk, BoSox, Marlins. Do the Nats, Mets, or Phillies have anything to offer like the Braves? This is the type of deal where JS could maybe move Hampton with including some young players. The interesting thing was that no teams were mentioned by ESPN. He struggled in the AL and is a better pitcher in the NL. A trade like this, move Thompson, and sign Hoffman for two years, who knows, maybe it happens. Thanks DOB for a great blog.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 22, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

RemoW, LeTwan saw Joe Torre catch for the Braves, a young Dusty Baker make his first start in the outfield, and watched Felipe Alou patrol the outfield next to Hank Aaron. Seems like there was another current manager out there once, at third base. Name escapes LeTwan right now. ha! Then, there’s Ozzie. That’s five. Can you think of any more?

TIto played here, but not Terry. Yost coached 3B for Bobby.

LeTwan remembers Murph and Horner hitting back-to-back and later, LeTwan remembers skinny little Barry Bonds coming to town and slapping the ball into his glove when he made a catch. LeTwan was there one night when Barry slapped a ball into CF. Oh, the joy!

Best, LeTwan remembers Pete Rose. He could personally beat the Braves. It was love-hate for LeTwan. Loved to see him play, hated to see him beat the Braves.

Yes, LeTwan is a long-suffering Braves fan, and LeTwan gets a little testy with DOB for which he is sorry. You see, LeTwan’s been reading/subscribing to the Atlanta papers for many, many years - mostly for the sports pages in all honesty (LeTwan prefers his news and opinion from other sources).

Team players do what they have to do to make the team better. Smoltz did it. Horner did it, Torre, Murph. Chipper did it once before. The new contract is a great start. Would Chipper at 1B make more sense for the team? That’s what makes this fun.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

Kevin: Care to share the password for insider??? Could get some more interesting conversation here on this blog!

By Castro

November 22, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this

Chipper and The Braves are everything that is right about baseball. Make a few big moves and go for it all this year, it may be Smoltzies last. We need Hoffman!

By LeTwan Anthony

November 22, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

Kevin, good thoughts, again. Isn’t Hampton what you’d call “damaged goods”? Will anyone take him off our hands with that contract and multi-injuries? Probably not. Letwan favors power pitchers now. Seeing the old “low and away” for all these seasons is grating on LeTwan because when we hit the playoffs and those low and away guys get hit, we lose. We face power pitchers and can’t score. In a 5-game series power pitching wins. LeTwan remembers Terry flailing away when he couldn’t catch up anymore - and we saw it with Julio this year. Good, pure hitters (admittedly past their prime) overmatched against flame throwers. Maybe JS will build a team that can get there again, and go further. At least a pennant.

By BB FAN

November 22, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this

I think Furcal is a very good player, but I don’t think he is is a “bonifide” leadoff hitter. He has a career OBP of .348. That is not great at the lead off spot. He gets too home run happy too often. I would like to see the Braves keep him, but he is not worth more than 7 mill a year. I just think Betimit could do fine a SS. He can’t steal bases, but he had a better OBP than Furcal.

I say let Betimit play SS. Then spend the money on pitching. That bullpen was horrible last year. It’s the only reason the Braves lost to Houston. If the Braves really need a lead off hitter, they could get some one by trading Estrada and Johnson. Or sign some one like Lofton. He made less than 3 million last year. They don’t need to spend 10 million a year for 5 years on Furcal.

ANd I have to agree with O’brien on Scott Erye. The guy has only had one good year. He’s not worth 3 years/11 million. BJ Ryan might me a good fit. He throws hard stuff.

By Carroll

November 22, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this

BB: I’d rather have Eischen than Eyre at that price.

As for the Vasquez talk, we prolly couldn’t give ‘em Hammy cuz he’s hurt but we would need to open some salary room to absord Vazquez’s contract. Just for conversation sake, what about Hudsy for Vazquez? Is Javier better than Tim?

By Fabrizio Di Muro

November 22, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

Yes, T Robb, Furcal should have won the Gold Glove this year. His numbers were better than Viszquel’s. Maybe it’s better he didn’t - it’s one less bargaining chip.

Given Furcal’s numbers, age, recent shortstop salaries, free-agent crop, and the teams bidding for him, I believe that at some point, someone is going to offer him a 5 year, $53M contract. Are the Braves going to come anywhere close to this, and will Furcal take a little less to stay? How much less?

If Furcal walks, the Braves need to replace a shortstop, and a leadoff hitter with speed. We have some guys that can step in to play defense (and not as well as Furcal), but no real leadoff hitter. We have some prospects that might be ready in 3 years, so signing Furcal to a 5 year deal probably isn’t in Atlanta’s plans. However, that’s what he’s going to get from someone, I believe.

Anyone we go get in the free agent market will cost a lot of money soon. Even Pierre will cost $6M next year and more after that. Also, will the Marlins trade him within the division? Plus, teams need to be solid up the middle, so losing your gold-glove caliber shortstop doesn’t seem wise to me. It will take 2 players to replace this guy. That tells me we oughta try hard to keep him…

By Lew Hartman

November 22, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

I’m bothered by hearing, I forget exactly where, that the Braves have an outfield problem. Since no one could possibly think Andruw is a problem, and Francouer is supposedly the second coming, I guess they must mean Langerhans. Why so much disrespect for this guy? He is an excellent fielder with a great arm. He is fast and has a good opposite field doubles stroke. I think with regular play he will hit for average. I don’t understand why people would think he wouldn’t make a decent leadoff hitter if Furcal leaves. Teach him to bunt and take pitches. He is a good enough contact hitter to make this a possibility. Let Betemit play short and spend huge amounts on pitching.

By Carroll

November 22, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this

Lew: agreed about the pitching….and to that end, why weren’t we in on the Beckett sweepstakes for goodness sakes!? He is quite affordably priced for the next two years and totally dominating in big games (a lot like Smoltz)….he doesn’t have the best overall season numbers but in a big game, I can’t think of anyone I’d rather have up there than a healthy Beckett!

By RRR

November 22, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

Kudos to Chipper. This is the sort of thing a true team leader does. He may not be eloquent, but he puts his money where his mouth is. A true testament to his greatness. I for one, am really glad to know that he will be a Brave always…as well as Smoltz. That is the one thing I miss about the “old days”: lifelong team members at the core of the franchise. Not only all of the aforementioned, but Chip is in the top 10 of his generation as a player, no matter what any of the trolls here state. I, too, must admit that the trolling is getting the best of me. I don’t even read the posts anymore, and I don’t blame the AJC for clamping down. One thing Dave: don’t be so apologetic to the trolls for giving kudos to Chipper. He deserves them after all.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this

Lew, I agree with letting langerhans play every day. And because Bobby is managing, if Furcal leaves, I would not mind seeing langerhans at the lead-off position. Leading off with a double is better than a single with the a fast guy on first. That being said, I would still rather see Furcal back.

Whether Furcal is back, Betemit plays ss or Julio Lugo is added to the team, I am most anxious to see what happens with the pitching staff. Smoltzie is nearing the end of his career, Hampton is already out for a year and Hudson wasn’t exactly Hudson last year. Strenghtening the bullpen is obviously concern number one, but bolstering the starting linueup with younger players is intriguing to me as well. That being said, I would not mind to see Vasquez in a Braves uniform, but at the expense of Hudson?…uh, no. At the expense of Johnson, Estrada, and out 23-year old ss (since we have 2 others that are younger and no less than as good)….uh, yeah. With the condition of course that Arizona eats a little of the contract. Interesting to see that no one is talking about Todd Jones anymore. I still believe tht he will end up in Atlanta. More so now than before since the Marlins are looking to “downsize”. Is it possible to just release Kolb and get back some of the owed salary? Anyone know what options the Braves have with him? Or are the Braves looking to try and salvage his career this year in a setup role? DOB?…Your thoughts?

By Carroll

November 22, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

uh, A lifer, the D-Backs would uh have to do a more than eat “a little” of his contract! He’s making something crazy like $15 mill a year! That’s why we’d have to give up one of our big salary guys like Hudsy in order to afford him. I don’t want to do it that way either but that’s the reality. It comes down to this, is Hudsy better than Vazquez. If yes, then don’t make the trade.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

Carroll…what did you think i mean for the Dbacks to eat?…..$5?

By Braves fan

November 22, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

ESPN’s Jayson Stark says the Braves have entered the Billy Wagner scene, though he doesn’t list a source that confirms the Braves interest. He quotes Wagner as saying that this isn’t all about money and he wants to go somewhere he feels comfortable and has a chance to win, and he specifically says that Atlanta always has a chance to win. If I remember correctly, Wagner and Chipper Jones are friends. Which in itself isn’t news, but given Chipper’s restructuring, one might wonder if Chipper gave the Braves a condition on his offer. That they try to sign Wagner. The reason I say this is that Wagner is by far the top closer on the market, and he has suitors with deep pockets(and something to prove to their fans) like the Mets/Phillies/Red Sox etc. And typically any players who become the hot hot commodities in free agency usually get marked off the Braves wish list early on if they even make the list. And up until this week, absolutely no mention of Wagner to the Braves had been even speculated on. So it seems awfully conincidental that there is now interest after Chipper’s deal. Just food for thought.

By David O'Brien

November 22, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

Just a quick post here, since there seems to be confusion as to Kolb’s status, both in this set of blog responses and previously.

Braves don’t owe Kolb a dime. He’s eligible for arbitration, and all they have to do is not offer it and the strings are cut. He becomes a free agent, end of story. And I’m certain that’s what they’ll do.

If they want to work out a deal to bring him back at a far cheaper rate, they could, just like any other team.

Now, as for thoughts on a real closer _ Wagner. I read Stark’s story and am trying to find out if there is legit interest from Braves or if Wags and his agent are just trying to drive up the price. Jayson knows Wagner well, being based in Philly.

Of course Braves would love to have him, but I have serious doubts whether they’d get into bidding for a closer who’s going to get at least a three-year, $10 mill contract at age 35. Mets seem ready to pay whatever it takes.

Braves could probably get him at a significantly lesser rate than Mets (he’s a small-town guy and wants to win, etc), but would Braves even be willing to pay, say, $8 mill per year guaranteed over three years? I don’t know. I don’t think so, but I don’t know.

As I wrote during Braves’ last visit to Philly this season, Wagner has told writers up there publicly that he’d love to pitch for Braves. Again, makes you wonder if he knows he’s not going to get offer from them but wants to use them to drive up the price from teams that feel like they need to overpay to get him away from Atlanta.

Also, I’m surprised it hasn’t been mentioned on any of the national rumor-mill websites, but I hear Marcus Giles’ name mentioned as a trade possibility IF the Braves re-sign Furcal. Since he’ll likely make more than $4 mill in arbitration, it’d make sense, but Braves wouldn’t trade him unless they were certain they were keeping Furcal.

From what I hear, these continue to be the most likely trade pieces that would allow Braves to save a lot of money and get solid prospects or young players in return: Johnny Estrada (mets are among many teams looking for a catcher), Giles, Horacio Ramirez, Jorge Sosa, and possibly one of the young outfielders, though certainly not Francoeur.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 02:22 PM | Link to this

DOB: Honestly, your most informative post since I have started reading these blogs (2 months)…at least for me. Those are the kinds of posts that I like to see from ya buddy!…no emotions, just tidbits that you know or have heard….thank you.

By Tomahawkin

November 22, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this

Lovely D.O.B I tried to give Kolb a chance all season, (being a former baseball player and understanding the mechanics and the high levels of pressure brought on by the fans )but simply put he didn’t cut it for making 3.4 million, so give him the pink slip, as 4 Wagner those turds at AOL are not even going to compete wit him, I like the Hoffman Idea better… and as for Julio Lugo (that U stated on an earlier post) I don’t like that idea. He is too homer happy like Furcal ( meaning if he hits one, all of a sudden he thinks he is hank Aaron, and therefore his swing gets longer leading to more strinkeouts)

and since Julio Lugos offense was so impressive, I hope that U knoe that he plays his home games at one of the best Bandboxes (Tropicana Field where the dimensions are College Like)in the American League

Go Braves!

By David O'Brien

November 22, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

My bad: Wagner is 34, not 35. He’ll be 35 in July.

By Tomahawkin

November 22, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

No offense, but send estrada to the mutts, and bring up Salty in 07… and 4 Giles we can’t get rid of him, hes been the most productive second baseman that we’ve had over this entire run ( only exception was LITTLE BIG MAN LEMKE who clowned in October)

By Lew Hartman

November 22, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

I still contend that the Braves would be much better to keep Giles rather than Furcal if it came to a choice. Giles will be half the price of Furcal and has had a higher average and hit for more power than Furcal since he became a regular. Giles is a doubles machine and is an excellent defensive second baseman. Just get him some body armor and he’s good to go. I think at the price it will take to keep him, Furcal is just NOT worth it.

By Tomahawkin

November 22, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this

Hey Carroll, where U at? Beckett If U have followed his career, He is seriously injury prone (especially with the blister in his pitching hand). John S. is smarter than that to go after him… When he was drafted Beckett was supposed to be the (exepletive). I invested in his rookie cards and so far he hasn’t shown me nuthin because of his injuries…Holla!

By Tomahawkin

November 22, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

I wonder If the boyz at TBS Read these blogs, since there is no baseball on in the winter (I think the professor or Chip would be good bloggers)

By Carroll

November 22, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

Tommy: agreed on Beckett….especially after I read that part of the deal was getting rid of Lowell too…no way Braves would/should pay that kind of money for him.

uh A lifer: you said they would have to eat a little of his contract….what do you consider “a little”? As I said, he gets in the neighborhood of $15 mill per, and for the Braves to afford him the DBacks would have to eat at least 5-7 mill…that aint happening. No way they pay to get rid of such a valuable, hot commodity when so many teams will beat a path to their door for him…..and since they don’t have to trade him at all. Hence, I asked it he is good enough to trade Hudsy. Maybe not…..you pick.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

As much bashing on furcal for getting homer happy….those of you wanting to hang on to giles for dear life must not watch the guy swing the same way at every pitch——-all or nothing! If the guy took a little off his swing and just worried about hitting the ball between the outfielders instead of through the outfielders, he would hit for a higher average and he would likely see the pitches better since he could wait a little longer and get more BB’s. This guy IS expendable. Orr can play 2nd…not to mention our young ss prospects CAN play 2nd too. If trading giles lands us some good relief pitching, why not? Giles bats 2nd, there are several guys that can bat 2nd. (mybe even Francoeur—think about—-protected by Chipper and Andruw—he would get some pitches to hit. That is when Andruw had his best ALL AROUND season if I am not mistaken.) If the Braves sign Furcal with the knowledge that they HAVE to sign someone that is due a raise in teh future, he is just as expendable as Estrada. Both should go for top-notch relief pitching….that would free up enough money (in conjunction with Chippers recent contract restructuring, like it or not, sign furcal and still have wriggle room under “the cap” for more moves.

By Carroll

November 22, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

uh A Lifer: we’re in complete agreement about Gily. I kinda like him but have grown tired of his swinging from the heels. Plus he seems to always fail in the clutch. Man on 3rd, less than 2 out….he’s virtually guaranteed to strike out or pop to 2nd.

By Tomahawkin

November 22, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

Leifer Ur right about that, I just think TP needs to get in his a$$ everytime he starts thinkin he A. Jones…

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

Carroll, was it feasible for the braves to only pay $1M of hampton’s contract in his first year with the braves?….hmmm….you decide.

By Tomahawkin

November 22, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

Yea HamDawg, is now the most overpaid playa on the team, even though I think they are all overpaid

By RICK

November 22, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this

KUDOS TO ALL THE BRAVES FANS (REAL FANS) THAT SUPPORT CHIPPER JONES. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING YOURSELF IF YOU THINK OF ANY NEGATIVE THINGS THAT CHIPPER HAS DONE. HE WILL GO DOWN AS ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME FOR THE ATLANTA BRAVES. HE DID ALL HE COULD POSSIBLY DO TO GET A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, HE CHANGED POSITION THREE TIMES (SS/3B/LF) WHICH HE HANDLED QUITE WELL AND MOVED AROUND IN THE BATTING ORDER, FOR THE SAKE OF WINNING. I WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT CHIPPER. CHIPPER JONES = TEAM PLAYER

I WOULD ALSO EXPRESS THAT WB IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR SS WE NEED RAFFY BACK AND PLEASE DON’T LET HIM BE A MET THAT WOULD ADD INSULT TO INJURY.

By Kevin

November 22, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

Well the Stark article is interesting, I guess I should have explained the idea of sending Hampton to Arizona. Yeah he is damaged goods but by if we could work out a three way deal with another team like when Hampton was sent to the Braves (give prospects to someone who will pay part of his salary) that is the only way we could move him. LeTwan you are correct, in a playoff series, hard throwers usually win out. Everyone knows that down and away is coming and you have to make contact and manufacture runs. People like Beckett when they are on are tough. Wagner is interesting ( I live an hour from him in Virginia and trust me he is from a small area) DOB responses are great, would resigning Furcal mean possibly moving him to second later in the deal and bringing up one of the young kids? Giles would be perfect for the padres, big park, family, brother possibly returning. Would Sean Burroughs be able to play second? Also saw where Luis Castillo is on the market, I know the fish would not send him to Atlanta straight up but maybe we could get another team to trade for him and flip him to us? Colorado then we send Estrada? The great part of this speculation is that we still have not mentioned the other tradeable players we have that are very attractive to other teams like Thompson, Ramirez (?) Sosa, and Kelly Johnson—I bet Beane would love this guy. DOB please keep it coming thanks for making my subscription worth it!

By wg

November 22, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

Are you guys nuts? What are we going to do with either Giles or Damon. I still think the wrong team left Boston in 53 and I have to watch and listen to all these local nutcakes up here but Damon has lost it. No arm, not a lot of speed left, and is strictly a center fielder. I am not adverse to taking a year off from the pennant and retooling with the kids that got us there this year. I would like to see AJ rework his contract also, but AJ & CJ are still the conerstones of the team. IS from Seattle would be great, but at what price? Don’t forget the ceiling on the payroll. The Red Sox scooped up the only player the Marlins had that we could really use (not Lowell) but even at that, we cannot afford him. Let’s give WB a chance at short and load up the pen.

By Carroll

November 22, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

uh A Lifer: again, no way the DBacks will help pay to give Vazquez away like the Rockies did with Hammy….he’s much too valuable. Must think of another way…..hence, I suggested trading Hudsy. You pick.

By Tomahawkin

November 22, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this

Damon is an overrated ESPN And peoples Magazine product…. but in other words he sucks especially his defense, he literally throws like a 4 year old…Nuff Said

By Kevin

November 22, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

DOB—question, Stark says the Braves are interested in Reggie Sanders? Why would we want him and second, where do we play him? Would he be a bench player and placed in the outfield rotation? Damon is not on the radar, he is overrated but he does bring intangibles. I am surprised that Farnsworth has not got as much attention as others, that last appearance is a killer. How much payroll do the Braves have committed right now including picking up Thompson’s option? Any inkling that the Braves would move Kelly Johnson back to the infield in the future, he was drafted as a shortstop but does he have the tools to translate as a second baseman?

By Tomahawkin

November 22, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

No Reggie Sanders again, I can’t think of a bigger bust over this run than Dan Kolb… No Reggie sanders keep his carcas in the Louie

By sri

November 22, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this

why not try nomar for a year or two until our prospects can take over at ss.

By Kevin

November 22, 2005 03:34 PM | Link to this

Nomar is interesting but does he have the reputation as a malcontent when things do not go his way? Also how much would he want? I think that the money should go to the pen and then trade players to improve the other areas of the club, does anyone think Zito would like to be reunited with Hudson? Johnson, Sosa, Ramirez for Zito?

By dpelfrey

November 22, 2005 03:37 PM | Link to this

In the spirit of Thanksgiving, I’d like to say that I’m thankful that the posters on this blog aren’t in charge of making the decisions this offseason. One thing I’ll never understand is why people think it would be a good thing to trade Giles. Those of you who don’t see the immense contributions he makes on the field just don’t understand the game of baseball. Giles is a keeper, and JS knows that. That’s why he’s not a Athletic right now.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

Vasquez has not been that good in a while. His big contract is a product of the Yankees over-paying, and now the Dbacks are paying for their trade with The Boss. The Dbacks are looking for talent in other areas (as public impression would have it), so, why is it so impossible to trade the guy and eat a little money if they can get what they want? When dealing with JS/Braves, anything is possible. If the first few years of Hammy’s contract isn’t “proof in the pudding” as they say, I don’t know what it is.

Furthermore, I would like to say that I am not totally overwhelmed by the idea of getting Vasquez anyway. But where do you get off saying that there is no way this team will do this or this team will not do that? Are you buddies with the front office personnel in Arizona? If so, please enlighten me on their plans this off-season. I am dying to know. You guys want to blast DOB for not speculating on some possibilites, but the first time someone gets entriqued about some ideas that have been “floated” out there, some of you know-it-alls chime in with your infinite wisdom on what the Braves really need to do and what they for sure will not do and blah blah blah. Speculting is fun, leave it that way. Stop attacking a reporter that is JUST DOING HIS JOB and quit complaining about a general manager that makes the best of a tough situation every year by putting a championship-contending team on the field.

Carroll, I am not looking for you to agree with me, but you often give the impression that you know best, while a differing opinion to yours is, let’s say….obtuse.

DOB: Looking forward to more posts of what your low-to-the-ground ear is hearing.

By JT

November 22, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this

Why would anyone want Nomar at this point? He’s a big name, and he has the GT connection- but he’s waaaay past his prime, his defense is nowhere close to what the Braves are accustomed to in the SS position, and he’s becoming a frequent flier on the DL. I don’t think he can even be considered. I think Brian Giles would be a great fit- if only for a 2 or 3 (max) year contract- he’d get to play with his brother, and he plays hard all the time.
In reality, tho, I think we need to go all out for a bullpen and closer- our starters are good, our defense is good, our offense is good- it was the end-of-the-game pitching that killed us last year.

By Adam

November 22, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this

Hey John, you dont have any idea what you are talking about. Chipper Jones is the face of the Braves. I have enjoyed growing up and watching him play his heart out for the Braves organization. He is a proven leader in the regular and post season. I would take a Chipper Jones on my team any day.

By T Robb

November 22, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

BB Fan: You’re right, Furcal’s career OBP is lower than a leadoff man’s should be, but it was over .400 after he got healthy last year and in my opinion he’s turned a corner.

Fab: I’d like to see the Braves offer Furcal 5 years, $9m per year. He was special with the glove last year, wasn’t he? And I don’t think the Braves can get him for less years than the usual suspects, but I think they can get him for less money.

It is undoubtedly a tough call, folks, but in the end, I want Furcal on my club. He’s worth it. If he leaves I’ve got two major problems and only one decent solution. And the other solution’s gonna cost me.

All you Langerhans guys/gals, think about this - if you keep Furcal, you can play Langerhans, give him some time to develop, hit him 7th or 8th and let Furcal lead off…if not, it’s entirely possible that Kelly Johnson will lead off and play LF. Adequate defense, high OBP, good speed…could happen…

By Lew Hartman

November 22, 2005 04:26 PM | Link to this

What in the world is wrong with batting averages between .293 and .321? That is what Giles has posted since he has been a starter. His defense is excellent and is getting better. There is no one else in baseball making $4mil or less putting up Giles’ numbers at second. He has great power for a small guy, also. Orr may be able to handle the defense and average, but will never have Giles’ power. Reggie Sanders had his worst year playing for the Braves and they won’t re-sign him. I fail to see a problem with our outfield. Langerhans had a very solid rookie year and came on very strong at the end he has tremendous potential and is as good as anyone for defense. We need to concentrate on pitching. The Braves could easily have won 110 games last year if the had the pitching. The relief pitchers killed us during the season and in the playoffs. Hudson is everything that was promised. He changed leagues last year and that is almost always difficult for the first year. They also have him outrageously cheap for someone with his career stats. You will never replace him with equal value for the same price. Thomson may also be a steal in the long run. If recovered from his injury, which should be the case given his last several appearances at the end, he is one of the most underrated pitchers in the NL. Estrada, Horacio, possibly Sosa and Kelley Johnson are definitely expendable. As far as Josh Beckett goes, he has been on the DL more times that most are willing to count. The same goes for Javier Vasquez. With Davies, Lerew and James on the rise, starting pitching is a strength. Spend money on a great closer and do the usual with middle relief. They say you set the bullpen from the closer back.

By Carroll

November 22, 2005 04:38 PM | Link to this

uh A Lifer: why don’t ya practice what ya preach, my man. Go back and read the posts. I originally brought up Vazquez several days ago. You brought it up again today. I threw out a possibility—that we could trade Hudsy for him—didn’t say we should do it or anything like that…just a thought because we’d have to clear salary to make room for Vazquez’s salary….and I don’t see us trading away CJ, AJ or Smoltzie. You then shot back with sarcasm implying that I was an idiot for even suggesting trading Hudsy with your “uh, no” rhetoric in response. That was totally unnecessary.

And as far as how I know that the DBacks won’t pay $5-7 mill just to get rid of one of the better young pitchers in baseball? I don’t know….just call it a guess.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

You are right Carroll, I gave my opinion…sorry. Pleeeeeeeeeeease forgive me. I said I would not like to see a vazquez of for hudson deal. You said the Dbacks “would never….” I have absolutely no problem with anyone giving their opinion. But….speaking on behalf of people/organizations that they do not have any control over….come on, man. Even you have to admit that is kinda out of line.

By Sal Vasquez

November 22, 2005 05:03 PM | Link to this

I first thought I liked the Latin players best on the Braves. Then, I started following Chipper Jones. Chipper is the ultimate Braves baseball player and he is a tough out. He has his own Foundation and his own ranch.

He plays for LESS money, people.

He could have said trade me, instead he said guarantee me and I’ll stay right here on third base. Chipper wants to raise his boys here in Atlanta close to their moms. He has become a big part of the community and is the best known Atlanta Brave. He wears number 10 and that is many people’s favorite number.

My children love his diary and we’re teaching our dog to talk like him. We’re also moving to seats along the third baseline next season. I hope he does not move back to left field. GO Chipper!

By joec

November 22, 2005 05:31 PM | Link to this

If MGiles is traded JS should wait to see where Bgiles ends up. I think BGiles will sign with St. Louis or re-sign with San Diego. If San Diego send Marcus there for Scott Linebrink. If St. Louis hold onto Marcus or find another team to trade with. San Diego could also be a good fit for JEstrada. Others interseted in Estrada may be Anahiem (for Macier Izturiz) Arizona (for Alex Cintron or Lance Cormier) Tampa (for Julio Lugo or Lance Carter) Pittsburgh (Jack Wilson) Houston (Mike Gallo).I also believe many teams would be interested in Haracio Rameriz.

By jworth

November 22, 2005 05:53 PM | Link to this

Always a Chipper fan and I think he’s always given everything that can be asked of one MLB player. He’s the franchise and the leader.

Furcal, goodbye! Too on again off again for me. T Robb mentioned that he may have turned the corner but I willing to take the risk. You never know when a night partying will take a crap on our shortstop’s season.

Giles, since when is giving a 150% bad thing. Yeah, he’s gonna get nicked up from time to time, but I’d have him on my team any day of the week. Although I agree with someone above who mentioned that he could cut back a little on his swing. If he did, I wouldn’t mind seeing him fill in at leadoff until we can find a bonafide, prototypical leadoff guy. Can you imagine the pitches one of our young outfielders would see sandwiched between Giles and Jones?

Finally, our bullpen did in fact cost us too many games last year! Let me take this opportunity to thank Mr. Kolb for that. Our young arms in the ‘pen show plenty of promise but a verteran influence and the mindset of a bulldog couldn’t hurt. I would love to have Wagner perhaps at any cost (that way we’ll never have to face him), but if that falls through why shouldn’t Smoltzie step up to the plate and go back to closing for the team! Chipper is showing the way and Smoltz should follow. Sacrifice some golf for the opportunity to win a WS! We all know that he doesn’t have that many more innings left in that bionic arm of his and who is kidding who when we hope he can string 200 innings together any more. Thanks for the great year, you proved you could do it, now show Boyer and McBride how to do their thing! As someone above mentioned we have some decent starting rotation arms, sacrifice one so we don’t have to see a Kolb again!!!!!

By Carroll

November 22, 2005 06:04 PM | Link to this

It’s not “giving your opinion” that I had a problem with, uh A Lifer, it was the arrogant attitude with which you dismissed my suggestion/thought, as if I were an idiot. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I never criticized you for simply not wanting to trade Hudsy….it was just the smugness with which you said it. Capiche?

By LeTwan Anthony

November 22, 2005 06:37 PM | Link to this

NY Daily News reports that Tom Glavine and wife took Billy Wagner and wife house shopping yesterday. Wagner’s been in NY for two days talking with the Mets. NY is bringing out the big guns to impress. Wagner is quoted as saying the Red Sox and Braves have also shown interest.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 06:51 PM | Link to this

Well, according to DOB, the braves will be able to cut ties with kolb, giving them nother few mil for relief pitching. just looking at three players here… chipper goes from $17M to $11M, cutting kolb’s $3.4M and Hampton’s insurance of $6M…that is approx $15M to spend this year. If the “rumors” are correct that the Braves would likely trade Giles if they resigned Furcal, that would give the Braves even more money with which to operate. Why wouldn’t the Braves be able to get in on some serious FA names this year? Any thoughts?

By Boogersaflyin

November 22, 2005 06:59 PM | Link to this

This O’Brien is an antagonistic little twerp isn’t he?

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 07:04 PM | Link to this

..don’t forget that technically, furcal’s approx. $4M is not on this coming year’s payroll right now either..so if you add him…that is $19M to spend on furcal and pitching.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 07:50 PM | Link to this

oops…$5.6M for furcal this past year…so, even more money that can be spent….. is over $20M

By Adam

November 22, 2005 07:55 PM | Link to this

I do not understand certain “Brave fans” want to trade Marcus Giles. He is an irreplaceable player. He brings so much to the table. His intensity, his much improved defense, his gap to gap power, are just a few examples.

What do you think of trading Estrada for a top of the line relief pitcher.

And who ever thinks that Chipper should move to first has no common sense what so ever. He played his best D fense last season, and Adam LaRoche is not that bad of a player.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 07:58 PM | Link to this

Ok….I know that I am extremely over-bearing right now…and I am sorry….but, I do have just one more stat that should be VERY INTERESTING to lot of you. Anyone care to guess who had the highest nummber of atbats per strikeout?…time’s up….FURCAL…yeah, that same guy everyone says HAS TO go. Led the team with a 7.9 atbats per strikeout ratio. Furcal struck out a lot less than people think. A lot of people probably guess Chipper or Francoeur…lol, ok, nobody guess Francoeur….but the just another stat to show that going from $5.6M to $9M is not that big of a jump tp pay Furcal who is the arguable the best short stop in the NL and a clear cut #1 option for the lead-off position if he was retained. Ok, now, I promise to wait until someone responds. Look forward to your comments.

By Adam

November 22, 2005 08:12 PM | Link to this

Furcal is if the the best, one of the best shortstops in the N.L., but he brings a lot of baggage w/ him. Dont get me wrong, i loved watching him play but i think its time to see what either Wilson Betemit can do or Tony Penya Jr. can do. If it was up to me I would keep Giles and let Fural go, his time is up as being a Brave.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 22, 2005 08:31 PM | Link to this

A case for Chipper at first base. LaRoche platoons with a 47 year old. He hits with some power but went through an extended slump last year. There is no heir-apparent at first baase. The Braves are talent laden at third base. The organization’s top prospect is a third baseman. Chipper catches all choppers. He doesn’t go to his left well. Furcal makes plays made by the third baseman on other teams. Chipper may prolong his career at first. That’s where players go to extend careers. Aaron went there. Torre went there. Horner went there. Is it more important to keep Chipper in the lineup, or LaRoche? If you answered Chipper, go get a cookie. If Chipper plays first, Marte or Betemit can play everyday. Just conversation but not lacking common sense as Adam says.

By Adam

November 22, 2005 08:38 PM | Link to this

LeTwan, you make some valid points about Chipper moving to first base and I take back what i said about “common sense.” I was just venting my frustration about how some people thing Giles should be traded, and I 100% dissagree with that. If Chipper can extend his career by moving to first base, I think that the Braves should consider it but would that mean trading LaRoche?

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 08:53 PM | Link to this

Letwan….one comment….betemit hit a hr once ever 61.5 at bats last year….Laroche….once ever 22.55 at bats. Neither number really, truely jumps out at you, but in less than twice as many at bats, laroche hit 5 times as many hrs. If laroche would have received 550 atbats (a projected full season), he would have projected out to 25 hrs/95 rbi (got 20/78 in 450 at bats). At first base, that is very respectable numbers (first base is a position in which you expect hrs and rbi). Betemit’s projected numbers are absolutely nowhere near that good. Who wants a single-hitting 3rd basemen? (3rd base is also a power-producing position, in which chipper’s slugging was ONLY 20 points lower than andruw’s last year..ONLY 20 POINTS lower!) I think everyone is getting way ahead of themselves on moving chipper to 1st and booting Laroche. Laroche has played two seasons now and is getting better each year. Don’t be surprised if Laroche combine for 55/60hrs and 200 rbi next year. Those numbers are what you would expect out of the corner infielders. I like the idea of keeping betemit as a super utility man (who doesn’t need that?). As I stated earlier, the Braves has over $20M to spend on Furcal and pitching (assuming they release kolb….not hard to fathum). If the Braves sign Furcal, their defense will be locked in and their lead-off problems will be solved. In fact, I believe they could even trade Giles and still be very solid both offensively and defensively by signing Furcal and letting orr/ss prospect play 2nd.

By doc

November 22, 2005 09:11 PM | Link to this

dob, you are a ramblin man. continue with the words, keep it up. this is where to come for info and the occasional opportunity ot dream hopefully not too far from reality. the ischero thing excites me and would make the team the most potent since sheff was here. going after wagner doesnt scare me based on age if you look at the effectiveness of the 38 yr old in san diego and it seems that smoltz must have had two surgeries since he was that age.

you brought us up to date on boyers shoulder but i would rather hear that smoltz has had his shoulder checked out and there are no surprises.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 22, 2005 09:31 PM | Link to this

A lot depends on what happens with Furcal, doesn’t it?

LeTwan doesn’t know if Chipper should go to first just yet. The Braves top rated prospect is Marte. He is a power hitter. Prototype third baseman. He’s also struggling in winter ball. Probably not ready for the bigs.

Betemit is ready. He needs to play. LeTwan has bragged on LaRoche in an earlier blog, so it isn’t an anti-LaRoche post. This is a wait-for-a-HR team and LaRoche hit some big ones (slam in game 5) and he is a good fielder. Having said that, Chipper will probably last longer at first. If the Braves talent folks are right (and they usually are) there are some infielders that need to get into the game. Either they play or they go. Then, when Chipper is forced to move they are no longer here. Marte and Betemit are much higher on the potential lists than LaRoche. But, sometimes the ones who turn out to be the best players surprise you.

LeTwan wants to make one point: Not everybody needs to be a HR hitter. LeTwan would take a hard-hit ball through the infield with men on base over a flailing home run swing any day. Everybody on this team is trying to hit one out. Look how many runners were stranded in the playoffs when all that was needed was a base hit. A Jermaine Dye kind of hit.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 09:40 PM | Link to this

letwan: the base hits you are referring to that the braves needed, were situational hits. the team does need to learn to be more disciplined as a whole. the production i am talking about is for a full season.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 22, 2005 09:55 PM | Link to this

Betemit hit .305 while he was playing for Chipper and he drove in 20 runs. Scored 36. They signed him when he was 15. He’s out of options. LeTwan thinks everytime you go to the plate it’s a situation for a hit. Get on base or drive somebody in. LeTwan can’t tell you how WB will be for a full season. Add his production to Chipper’s last season and you have a player with 92 RBI and 102 runs. Didn’t lose much with him in the lineup. Not much at all. This isn’t a situational type team. It’s a set the table and hit a HR team. Runners are not advanced. The bunt is not a weapon. Only Franco knows how to hit behind a runner and he didn’t learn that here.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 10:07 PM | Link to this

Joe Morgan, amoung others, has said that there are two vastly over-rated stats in baseball, era for pitchers (w’s are what matters) and BA for hitters (run production is what matters). In most occasions, a single with two outs gets you nothing. A HR, on the other hand, with two outs gives you a run. Whether you agree with the hall of famer or not, there is at least some merit to those statements. Laroche is far more proven than either Betemit or Marte. Marte looked completely lost, save a few moments, last year. I don’t expect him to be ready next year. (I could be wrong, look at Francoeur.) Additionally, Chipper proved this past year that he deserves at least another year or two at third (5 errors .980 fielding). Your numbers actually make me even more comfortble with having Betemit on the Major League roster as “Super Utilityman”. Betemit was a very good pinch hitter last year (only second to Julio if memory serves me.) Every good team needs a solid bench, I thing Betemit would be freat first option off the bench. My question to you…how many times have Marte or Betemit bunted in recent years???? Are they your answer for “smll-ball”?

By LeTwan Anthony

November 22, 2005 10:26 PM | Link to this

Gotta get a sign to bunt. Bobby doesn’t throw that sign much now, does he? But singles and doubles are a part of the game, too. Scroll up and look at the comments about your 1-2 hitters being HR happy.

Those guys stranded at third in the playoffs would have scored on a single.

Doesn’t really matter who hits the single, does it?

Sometimes a couple base hits can get you a run. Heck, some NL teams score runs without a hit. LeTwan is not a big fan of Joe Morgan but if Joe said it he must know what he’s talking about. The sound is usually turned down at LeTwan’s house when Joe is broadcasting.

Not sure Chipper proved he deserves more time at third. He can still play but there are some guys behind him that can play, too. If this team is going to win a WS again they need something more than they’ve had. The pen has to improve, starters, too, and the best players need to be on the field.

Marte is a power hitter akin to Chipper. Haven’t seen him bunt. Haven’t seen Chipper bunt. Haven’t seen Andruw or LaRoche either. Did see Frenchy do it on his own when it was needed. Surprised everybody, Bobby included.

LeTwan isn’t trying to take the bat out of the power hitters’ hands - just reminding folks that a lot of people play the game to move runners over and score a run. Then, all that good pitching can win you some games.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 10:44 PM | Link to this

I repeat, you are referring to situational hitting. which i am in totl agreement that the Braves team as a whole needs to do better. After the last two years, Laroche has show what he can/should do next year. Does this mean that he is absolutely, irrefutably the best player?….No. But Marte/Betemit are not “clutch” guys by reputation or based on their numbers. Laroche does also play a very solid 1st Base (7E/.994 fielding) CHipper at third and Laroche at 1st project to be around a combined 10-15 errors, 55-60 HRs, 200 RBI. In Baseball there are so many things out of one’s control, so, projecting and insurance policies are all that a GM can do. Projecting what Chipper and Laroche are going to do and having Julio and Betemit as insurance is a very, very good plan—worked almost to perfection last year (nothing is perfect). Playing Betemit and Marte is not projecting, it is guessing and hoping, that is not sound decision-making in my opinion. Would you want your retirement broker guessing and hoping with your money? Again, your situationl hitting point is very well taken and I agree whole heartedly, but an argument for betemit and marte or Chipper and Larocher is little tough for me to agree with—even if Bobby is not using the hit-n-run, bunt and steal the way he can (which I agree that he isn’t). Respectfully, A Lifer.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 22, 2005 11:09 PM | Link to this

Well, A Lifer, you have straightened LeTwan out. Getting a hit when a hit is needed is situational hitting. LeTwan thought getting a hit was important every at bat (especially with runners in scoring position) but he can adapt to change.

LeTwan does think a hit helps you get on base. If the guy behind you does the same thing, and the guy behind him, you may score a couple runs. Guess it depends on the situation, huh?

LeTwan thinks Julio is toast. Better find another plan. If LaRoche has to be platooned this year Bobby’s going to have to find someone else.

Don’t think they projected when they put Francoeur in right. They just put him out there. Glad they did, though. Something about him being a top prospect. Would have been easy to put Jordan back out there when he came back. Glad they didn’t, though.

LeTwan has not advocated moving Chipper to first. Heck, Chipper says he won’t move. LeTwan has just explored a way to get the team’s top young prospects involved and preserve an aging and somewhat fragile player that just got a guaranteed contract.

By A Lifer

November 22, 2005 11:20 PM | Link to this

in 450 atbats (a minimum number of atbats for most players after walks, sac flys, etc.), a .300 average = 135 hits, a .270 average = 122 hits. So, betemit will get 13 more hits than laroche (Assuming Betemit hits .300 for a full season). Larocher is producing more runs though with his power. Scoring runs is what is ideal on the offensive side of the ball. Are you going to say that Andruw had a bad season because he did not hit anywhere near .300 (.263 by the way)? A Lifer is curious.