Braves

By Jeff Gray

November 14, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

Let Furcal walk for that kind of money. Simply put, he is too incisistent. The Langerhans/Johnson platoon could prove to be more beneficial at leadoff and it’s time for Betemit to be given a chance — he earned it after last year.

By Chop Chop

November 14, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this

Good blog, DOB. I almost feel like I should pay a prorated fee for my old AJCSportsPlus subscription. Well, I shouldn’t go that far. Either way, I appreciate the informative blogs.

By JB

November 14, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this

Several AJC stories over the years have noted that the Braves were amortizing their total obligations toward Hampton’s contract over the duration of his time with the Braves — that is, not just counting it for the years when they would be the sole ones paying him. Is that no longer the case?

By Chop Chop

November 14, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this

DOB, have you heard anything more about Dayton Moore and his interviews with the Red Sox for their GM job?

As for the Braves, I think it’s important for them to roughly replace Furcal’s numbers in the lineup. If the Braves really trust Betemit, there wouldn’t be much talk about bringing in a more experienced guy to handle the job for a year to bridge the gap to other shortstop prospects. So, if it comes down to trading for a shortstop, I’m thinking that it will be Lugo over Everett because of his offensive potential. At closer, I’ll go with Todd Jones if they don’t want to spend enough to bring in Tom Gordon or B.J. Ryan. Todd Jones is a more stable pitcher than Dan Kolb, so he should be able to “bridge the gap” (that phrase again) for a year or two until one of the young guys (Boyer, Devine, etc.) is ready to take over that role.

By Ron Roberts

November 14, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this

Much like DOB broke down the Braves’ future at SS, we should consider the Braves’ future in the bullpen, too. There are a good number of young arms, and Devine’s destined to be the closer, which is why going after a big name guy for more than 2 years with a big contract seems pointless, to me.

Todd Jones makes the most sense, fiscally. But one good season makes me nervous about him…not Kolb nervous, but nervous, still. Bottom line… the ‘pen has GOT to be solid for us, with Smoltz, Hudson and Sosa bringing about 60% of our games to ‘em with a shot at winning.

I didn’t see Dave bring up the Nomar thought, either. Guess that’s not really being discussed at the Turner Field Teepee. As I’d said on the prior blog, think if they took a “J.D. Drew” shot on him, that might actually be fairly favorable for all parties. The Braves get their 1 year stopgap at short, Nomar gets to play with a winner, and if he stays healthy, the Braves get a .320 career hitter at leadoff, with Wilson Betemit behind to spell him and Chipper (who both apparently need the occasional day off at their age). Plus, ifi Nomar or Chipper go down, Wilson’s a GREAT insurance policy.

By Pocahorner

November 14, 2005 05:03 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the 411, DOB. It will be an interesting few weeks for baseball and Braves fans. Glad you’re here to help us sort out the facts from the rumors. You know, this weekend, someone on ESPNEWS mentioned that Furcal/CF rumor. I had to laugh since you set us all straight….

By Robert (Justice is the best)

November 14, 2005 05:04 PM | Link to this

Who isn’t a more stable pitcher than Kolb?

By doc

November 14, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this

wilson for lugo and throw in a prospect. save the money for the pen.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 14, 2005 05:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, how did you know LeTwan was saying, “Whither Wilson Betemit?” Man, you’re good. Seriously, that was a really good post. Lots of discussion fodder for the evening. “Elvis” Andrus? Been hummin’ Beetles tunes today. May switch to some jailhouse rock. Chop Chop mentioned Boyer. LeTwan thinks Boyer is a favorite of Bobby Cox. If he can stay healthy he may get the ball a lot.

By C Daddy

November 14, 2005 05:07 PM | Link to this

Is this the best part of the baseball season or what? Here’s one for you, Furcal walks, Wilson B at second and Marcus gets traded for a leadoff hitter (or a prospect and get a lead off man elsewhere). I like Marcus but the team can live without him in light of his streaky production and increasing cost. Then with the money you have saved get a freakin’ closer in here!

By Biff

November 14, 2005 05:10 PM | Link to this

DOB, great report. By the time you check in later this evening, we’ll have it twisted into something you won’t even recognize.

I know money talks, but if any team has a chance to get a little discount, I would think Atlanta has a pretty good shot regarding Farnsworth, if Detroit is the major competition. I’d like to have him, unless JS has some other closer-type in mind for ‘06, because we really need to do something there. As Devine develops, let him take the job from KF when he’s ready. A lefty throwing 100 mph wouldn’t be bad in the 8th.

Good to hear there’s at least hope with Lugo. Sounds like a perfect setup if we can make it happen.

By Robert (Justice is the best)

November 14, 2005 05:11 PM | Link to this

C Daddy,I think you make a good point. I like Marcus a lot but he is expendable. I think his constant swinging for the fences are waring on some nerves. If we can get equal value, I would be all for trading Marcus. The question with him is the same with Furcal. Does his price tag match his contribution?

By HobNailBoot

November 14, 2005 05:13 PM | Link to this

The Braves opted to bring in outfielders with major league experience at a very cheap price last year to try to fill the left and right field spots. Hindsight tells us now that the team would have been better served letting youngsters Langerhans, Francoeur or Kelly Johnson gain those extra two months of early season major league experience. My point is, if Furcal leaves, we might be better served letting Escobar (who has the edge on Braves minor league overall shortstop talent) get his feet wet. If it don’t look promising after two months, make a trade or try someone else (like we did with with left and right field last year).

By Ron Roberts

November 14, 2005 05:21 PM | Link to this

HobNail…

Good to see ya, man. Where ya been hidin’?

While I nod my head reading what you’d said, I can’t see an organization wanting to step up from a 2005 NLDS appearance towards being a World Series contender with a rook at shortstop. Besides, if any inexperienced farm system guy’s gonna get a shot, it’ll have to be Betemit, don’t ya think? Wilson has star potential, if he can realize it (finally).

By Biff

November 14, 2005 05:22 PM | Link to this

I read on CBS Sportsline that the Rays need 1B, 3B and starting pitching help. Anybody got a more reliable report on what they’re looking for?

By LeTwan Anthony

November 14, 2005 05:22 PM | Link to this

If Marcus goes, and the team has enough boppers, maybe they go with the organization’s best defensive ss. It worked when they got Belliard. Great glove, light stick. One reason the pitching is so good is because the Braves are so strong up the middle. Lose Furcal? Betemit replaces. Lose Furcal and Giles? Betemit and Pena? Isn’t Baseball wonderful?

By Ron Roberts

November 14, 2005 05:24 PM | Link to this

LeTwan (I think) is making a point worth pondering. Our middle infield defense was good… losing one guy will be difficult, but is it feasible to lose two guys from the middle infield and be able to not miss a step?

By Ryan in Macon

November 14, 2005 05:28 PM | Link to this

If my memory serves me right, the Braves don’t exactly have a lot of luck with returning closers who blow up in a previous season’s pressure packed playoff situation. Thanks Farnsworth for a great last month, good luck back in Detroit.

By Biff

November 14, 2005 05:33 PM | Link to this

Ryan, for the record, I don’t think Farnsworth is the perfect solution, I’m not as down on him as some. But if we let him walk, who closes next year?

And I’ll rephrase my previous question in the form of the same question: anybody know what Tampa is looking for? I know they’ve supposedly got Lugo and Baez on the block. Hey, let’s get both of em! But what do we need to package to get one or both?

By LeTwan Anthony

November 14, 2005 05:37 PM | Link to this

RR, LeTwan is flattered. Are we friends now? Just think, harmony arising from the middle infield. If you’ve seen Sonny Jackson, Jerry Royster, and Denis Lemke at SS, you really don’t fear Betemit or Pena. Braves baseball has been fun for more than a decade, but that team with Treadway/Lemke at 2B and Belliard at ss was a delight. Pitching and defense. Pitching and defense. Pitching and defense. Then, hope you can get enough runs to win a 5 game series.

By Ron Roberts

November 14, 2005 05:51 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget Rafael Ramirez to Glenn Hubbard to Chris Chambliss.

I believe they set a double-play record in 1982.

By Uncle Charlie

November 14, 2005 05:53 PM | Link to this

While Hendry and the Cubs may have allowed the public to know that signing Furcal is a top priority, that has never stopped them from being more conservative than their budget would suggest when offering contracts. If they feel he’s worth $36 million over four years, they won’t offer $50 million over five, even if they know it will disappoint Cubs fans to lose him to the Mets (or Braves). They know Cubs fans are used to disappointment.

By Realistic Braves Fan

November 14, 2005 06:02 PM | Link to this

As I read the above emails I am not surprised as why the Braves have been shown to have the least knowledgeable fans in baseball. Look, if you have a player who provides hits, steals, defense, and a career lowering of errors you do not let him go to another team. There is a reason that other teams are offering Raffie the big contract, he is an awesome commodity! The Braves need to spend the same money they have been using on the pitching staff to remain competive. Do you see the Yankees or Red Sox dropping their best postion players? Of course not! Some pepole need to get over their jealousy and think about what’s best for the Braves team.

By Biff

November 14, 2005 06:03 PM | Link to this

Ron, that record was partly because Ramirez made so many errors, there was always someone on first! I just wish we had Fat Earl Williams to anchor the defense.

I can’t see trading Giles for the sake of trading him, or to give an (apparently) not-ready-for-primetime player a starting role with the Braves (that’s a BIG leap).

By Jim

November 14, 2005 06:03 PM | Link to this

I say go with ryno at leadoff, i think there is alot of talent there that needs to be uncovered with a confidence boost. Bobby sticking him in the one hole would do that. He really showed me something down the stretch when it really counted.

By A Real Fan

November 14, 2005 06:10 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget Rafael Ramirez to Glenn Hubbard to Chris Chambliss.

And two out of the three became great coaches!

By Pocahorner

November 14, 2005 06:13 PM | Link to this

Biff: The NY Daily News reported that the Devil Rays were looking for pitching and young inexepensive pitching talent. (Mets were floating a Baez & Huff for young inexpensive pitching talent as Plan B if they were outbid - right - for Wagner). But then again, who isn’t? Also, since they’re trying to unload Huff, I think they would need a 1B since he’s the only 1B on their 40 Man Roster. They can’t have someone down on the farm ready to play since their last two 1B they signed were Tino Martinez and Fred McGriff (did he even play last year?) Whoever TB would want from us, it would probably included a couple of major league ready pitcher (Lerew? Davies? James?)

By LeTwan Anthony

November 14, 2005 06:21 PM | Link to this

If your GM says he won’t pay market it really doesn’t matter what we say about Furcal. He’ll go for the bucks. Best play by an Atlanta ss? Walt Weiss in the ‘99 playoffs. Second best? Belliard’s dazzling running catch in foul territory in game 6 in ‘95. LeTwan is all teary eyed thinking about it.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 14, 2005 06:23 PM | Link to this

Oh, yeah, and this one hurts a little. Furcal’s unassisted triple play.

By Ron Roberts

November 14, 2005 06:23 PM | Link to this

Biff, GOOD point. I laughed out loud. Raffy was prone to the bloop, eh?

Realistic Braves Fan, the reason fans are talking about replacements for Furcal isn’t because most of us are ready to let him go, it’s more because we’ve come to know that AOL/TW isn’t going to let Schuerholz pony up what it takes to keep him, more than likely.

By Biff

November 14, 2005 06:26 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Poco. Hard to give up more than one of those guys for a rental at SS, but if we could up the ante and go after Baez too, well, maybe. As LeTwan is fonding of saying, ain’t baseball great (or something like that…he of course uses better grammar).

I think McGriff was cut in ‘04, btw; tried to come back last year but didn’t make the roster. Just couldn’t hack it any more (no pun intended.) Not sure, but that’s my recollection.

LetWan, good call on Weiss…forgot about that!

Realistic: did you even read the article before you insulted all Braves baseball fans?

By HAROLD LEE SCOTT

November 14, 2005 06:36 PM | Link to this

i like a lot of the comments made in the above statements, however i would like to point out,in my estimation, the most important thing that accounted for the braves being so successful the past year was the attitude and the togetherness of the veterans and rookies. there is some great talent on this group and with them really pulling together as they did they overcame a lot. i know their is this guy and that guy out there that could help the braves. but the important thing is that person must blend with the attitude of the rest of the team. they need furcal if they can keep him. he had a great hustle, performance, and attitude last year and his teammates want him.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 14, 2005 06:38 PM | Link to this

Pies coming out of the oven. Driving LeTwan crazy. LeTwan would rather see KJ bat leadoff than RL. Too bad we can’t play ‘em all. Check you later.

By Joe

November 14, 2005 07:21 PM | Link to this

Hey Realistic! You’re anything but that. Good call on the Weiss play, LeTawn. Joe has a great memory of that play. I moved that day and couldn’t get reception at my new digs. I tried to watch the game at a laundry mat but they kicked me out. I ended up in my car in front of my house w/ a good buddy, a 12 pack of Budweiser and AM 750. What a first impression w/ the neighbors! And don’t ask why I didn’t just go to a bar; I was probably pretty broke after 1 mos. rent and a deposit.

I like the Lugo deal. He’ll be solid. And you never know, sometimes Bobby brings out the best in players. The talk of dealing Marcus is absurd. Simply absurd. He’s a regular Charlie Hustle; his glove has improved immensely and he’s a double machine.

Really, our only other need is a bullpen. We’re strong everywhere else. We’ll see what happens.

By Carroll

November 14, 2005 07:23 PM | Link to this

LeTwan: don’t forget Andres Thomas at SS. That was a train wreck waiting to happen every at-bat.

Jeff Treadway was just grand at second base. He doen’t get much run for that 91 miracle season, but if you ever go back and watch the 91 highlight tape, you’ll see him right in the middle of everything good for the Braves that year. It wasn’t until Lemke filled in toward the end of the year that Boogie fell in love with his glove. And then Lemmer, unlike our current roster of paper champions, stepped it up beyond his normal capabilities in October. Ah, the good ole days

By newyorker

November 14, 2005 07:28 PM | Link to this

What about Orr. Man can fly. Spray hitter, bunts at will. Trade Giles, use Wilson as no.2. Excellant gap hitter with power. Good range in the field.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2005 07:34 PM | Link to this

LeTwan, only difference being, you spelled whither correctly (I wrote wither). That’s what I get for turning off spell-check. i hate it, so I don’t use it. i’m old-school dictionary user, when i use anything.

Baez makes a lot of sense for Braves, who have extra starting pitching. Haven’t heard anything since GM meetings regarding him.

I just get a feeling that either Thomson or Davies will be dealt before spring, or even during spring. And it’ll be interesting to see what Braves do with Sosa _ do they trust that last year was no fluke, that he’s turned corner and is that pitcher? Or do they say, his trade value will never be higher than now? Braves rarely err on side of keeping a guy too long; they usually dump them before, not after, they have downturn, with a few notable exceptions.

And the only news I have regarding Furcal is good for Brave fans: They aren’t out of running for him, by any means. Cubs talked terms with agent today, and Braves didn’t back down. Don’t know if Cubs made actual offer, but they did talk terms, and Braves were made aware of where the thing’s headed, and they said we’re still in it, and they’ll get opportunity to match any offer or come close. So hang on, it could take a couple weeks or more, but it doesn’t look like they’re out, after all.

Agent is flying down to D.Republic to see Furcal and few of his other clients, won’t be back until next Monday, but will be in contact with teams from down there on phone.

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2005 07:35 PM | Link to this

Hey, wait LeTwan. I just went back and realized I did spell it right. And without spellcheck, dude. Yep, all that book-learnin’ paid off for me.

By JJ

November 14, 2005 07:39 PM | Link to this

Furcal is important but not $9 mill a year important. I think Betemit is more than adequate at SS for now and Escobar should be next in line in 2007 or 2008. By 2010 Elvis should be in the building (The Ted).

Let’s take that money and throw it at the bullpen, our true Achilles heel. Furcal did nothing offensively in the NLDS this year. He was awesome last year. Same result both years - we lost. Starting pitching was bad in the playoffs last year. Relief pitching was horrible this year. Let’s go sign Billy Wagner or bring back Farnsworth and Todd Jones to set him up. I love watching Furcal play but $9 million is better spent on an area where we don’t have many ready solutions - the bullpen.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 14, 2005 07:39 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget Blauser. Hit .308 in 1997 and won a silver slugger award. Next season, with the Cubs he hit .219. Sometimes you just need to let ‘em go. Braves turned him loose at the right time.

By Tony

November 14, 2005 08:03 PM | Link to this

i agree that Giles has to go…I am so tired of his ill-fitted pants and ‘fungo-bat’ swing…of course, with being height-challenged, he’s always had to swing that way…Betemit is a step too slow for 3B so SS/2B may be a good position for him…Let Kolb to find a deal where ever he can catch on…Ditto Hampton…Jordan should graciously accept retirement like Mondesi…LaRoche: spend winter running wind sprints 2B-3B-HP…Let Furcal get what $$ he can, remember he’s not a gold glove SS, lifetime .284, 77th in OBP(Julio Franco was 44th), and always seems to strike out trying to homer when a single is needed…

By tonyC

November 14, 2005 08:14 PM | Link to this

Ok, it’s clear that the front office and Braves fanbase both realize that keeping Furcal is the #1 priority in the offseason. How does that happen? Furcal has let it be known that he’d give the Braves a discount to stay-but his agent must see that $9-10M a year isn’t out of the question. Braves have said $8M/yr. so what could be done to keep #1???? I say convince him to stay for $8-8.5M/yr over 4 with mutual option for 5 with a bigger second year payout (say $8.65M) get Larry to restructure that godawful contract we gave him in ‘99 (it is now really ridiculous unless Chipper has an MVP year in ‘06), and sign Todd Jones or see if Billy Wagner will give us a discount (He might, ATL is close to home for him). Furcal’s best financial move would be to goto the NYM but he is extremely resistant to 2B, so that puts the Braves on equal footing with NYM at least. The Cubs have the $$$, and the need for Furcal, and if he got on in front of Lee his numbers would remain good. The downside of the Cubs move for Rafael is the fact that it’s the Cubs. The budget JS has been given is extremely thin. So unless Furcal really prefers hardware over bank statements, prevailing wisdom sees him going to Chi. Will JS be able to get Smoltz, and the overpaid Jones (yes I said it, go look at the contract then look at the numbers) to restructure their contracts AGAIN??? It might be overall best to let #1 go and then solidify the ‘pen and front 4 in the rotation, which would need to happen if we loose Furcal because trust me, the offense will go WAY down if we loose him.

By burt

November 14, 2005 08:25 PM | Link to this

furcal’s future with the braves is all up to bobby cox. if bobby wants to keep him, furcal will stay in atlanta. the braves has a lot of options, and bobby is the guy that puts it all togather.

By Chop Chop

November 14, 2005 08:30 PM | Link to this

DOB, have you heard anything more about Dayton Moore’s interviews for the Red Sox GM job and do you think he would leave the Braves for it? Also, if he doesn’t leave, do you think he is the most likely successor to Schuerholz?

By hawk

November 14, 2005 08:32 PM | Link to this

I am with trading Giles to Tampa for Lugo. I would then move Betemit to second and allow him to hit in the two hole. As for the closer role, I would grab Todd Jones, since he is cheap. I would then proceed to sign Bob Howry (7-4, 2.47 ERA). Howry did a good job of setting up Bob Wickman. Finally, with Javier Vasquez wanting out of Arizona, I would trade Sosa and Ramirez to get him… that is, as long as the Arizona is willing to eat some of the salary. Starting rotation: Smoltz, Hudson, Vasquez, Thomas, Davies.

By islehack

November 14, 2005 08:44 PM | Link to this

I’d love to see Furcal stay, but I just don’t see how it’s going to happen. It doesn’t make sense for him to take less money and a shorter deal. It doesn’t make sense for us to lock him up for five years with so many prospects down the line. And, remember, he’s been bothered by injuries in the past.

But, nobody can doubt he was one of the most dynamic players in the NL when he got healthy early in summer. Hard decision all the way around. We’ll see if having a realistic shot to play in October every year has any bearing. The Mets always are supposed to be there (supposed being the operative word). The Cubs … well, they’re the Cubs.

Enjoy the blog a great deal. Enjoy the insight you toss in there, DOB. I’ve known people who have worked in your business (did it myself for a while) and, while people might want you pumping out big name and hot rumor, you’ve gotta be credible and accurate. You are, and I appreciate it, as well as the updates. It’s hard to sit outside a locked door for four hours in the hopes of getting two decent quotes in 30 seconds from somebody making a mad dash from meeting room to car, while all the while some well-meaning editor is ringing your cell every 10 minutes wondering where your story is. The Furcal to the Bronx to play center thing was laughable. The folks who ran with that should seriously question their attribution skills and thoughts on being accountable to their readership.

Enough journalism talk. Can’t wait for hot dogs and sunny days in Lake Buena Vista. It’ll be here before we know it. Whether Furcal’s at short when we get there, time will tell.

By Greg

November 14, 2005 08:46 PM | Link to this

Either Giles or Furcal has to come back next year. Giles is one of the premier 2B in baseball (you can look it up). If Furcal leaves, I say go after Marcus’s older brother and see if you can get them to sign below market deals to play together. Sign Marcus and Brian Giles to three year deals, where their salaries get bumped up if/when one is traded. If your lineup is MGiles, Chipper, Andruw, BGiles, Franceour, LaRoche…. Who cares who’s leading off.

By Ryan

November 14, 2005 08:57 PM | Link to this

I believe the Mets should offer the $$$ to Furcal (after getting a reliever) and have Jose and Rafael share the 2 spots if willing or one to switch if willing a Reyes, Furcal 1-2 punch would be the best in baseball

By PapawJames

November 14, 2005 09:09 PM | Link to this

I also think the Braves should trade Giles,Kelly J, Young Pitcher and a prospect to Tampa. ( Keep Marte)But,I think they ought to get Outfielder Aubrey Huff and Lugo.I know the Braves in the past was wanting Huff and it still would be a deal.Langy will still get his playing time. Play Orr/Betemit at 2nd and spend what we got left on closer BJ Ryan. Remember in 95 The Brave beat the best offensive team Indians with pitching with Belliard at SS and Wholers as the stopper.

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2005 09:15 PM | Link to this

You guys are making me sick with this Giles has to go crap… Do any of you guys remember the days of mediocre production at second (guys like Keith Lockhart, Quilvio Veras) I’d, as well as about 2 dozen other teams in the bigs would take Giles in a heartbeat ( His range has improved dramaticly, although he does need to shorten his swing, his swing has gootn longer as a result of having that banner year in 03) So John S. the saying at second for 06 should be if it ain’t broke don’t fix it… And by the way how many other second baseman in the Bigs can hit .290 with 20 homers, 60 Rbis, and steal 15-20 bases, I’m pretty sure its less than half a dozen

Go Braves!

By Biff

November 14, 2005 09:30 PM | Link to this

Does ANYBODY have any indication that Tampa is interested in Giles? If he were a key cog in a deal for Baez and Lugo, I could see it. But what I hear is that Tampa wants s. pitching and corner infielders.

But otherwise, agree with Tomahawkin.

To my mind, the ONLY problem with Giles is that he strikes out too much. Good fielder, good average, great “gap” power. And a high-energy guy, for whatever that’s worth. Seems to me that we sign him for a year at least and don’t completely upset the middle of the infield.

By Biff

November 14, 2005 10:10 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop: you may know as much, but below is a link to a USA Today via Boston Globe article on Moore: Sounds like we may be losing one of the most important Braves of all… but let’s hope not. Of course when we lost Chuck Lamarr to the DRays about a decade ago, I thought it was the beginning of the end…

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/11/13/veteranlajoieisstilla_player/?page=2

By David O'Brien

November 14, 2005 10:24 PM | Link to this

Chop, I sent a response to your Moore query, don’t know what happened but I see it isn’t posted. Anyway, what I said was, Dayton’s sharp and smooth, and if he’s interviewed by anyone they’ll want to hire him. Which is why he’s the first and only one (I think, at least so far) to get invited back for second interview with Sox.

Now, unless Schuerholz can assure him he (schuerholz) is only staying another year or so and then it’s Dayton’s job, well, then the Sox post might be too hard for a first-time GM to resist. Even with the potential meddling and hands-on activity from Luchino, et al. It’s still a biiiig-time position in the first- or second-best baseball market in country (St. Louis being other).

I think Dayton or Frank Wren is the next guy, the would-be successor to John S. But how long will John S. stay? Don’t know. Maybe a year, but we’ve said that for 3-4 years, and he seemingly doesn’t age or lose any energy _ ever.

If Braves somehow won another World Series, I’d be you Schuerholz and Bobby would step down immediately. But that’s a big if, of course. Even if they got back to Series, they might call it a career together. But who knows? I hate even trying to figure it out. I do know they’re both mid-60s now, and it’s an amazing run, but it can’t last forever.

Oh, and I agree with those wondering about all the Giles-bashing. I mean, he’s a pretty darn productive player for folks to be saying he should be moved. I don’t get it, unless you’re talking purely for money in order to keep Furcal, then I could see it. Otherwise, Giles is better than the vast majority of second basemen.

By Biff

November 14, 2005 10:33 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop: think that link I gave you is wrong, but DOB addressed it anyway…

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2005 10:37 PM | Link to this

Totally agreed D.O.B. need I say more, I guess the fans that want gilesy out of here didn’t see hikm clown in 03… some of us are so blind that we don’t know how good we got it at second base, and the middle of the infield for that matter, Does anyone know the status of once Braves prospect Troy Cameron

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2005 10:52 PM | Link to this

And while were on the subject of Braves talk. ASm I the only one who thinks Andruw will not get the MVP For his slump in the final month ( I also think that the heroics of Pujols in the NLCS will give him an edge as well). The only way I can think positive about Druw getting the award is thinking about 1992 when Pendleton won it because of his leadership (his 22 homeruns and 100 RBIS that year aren’t the same level of evaluation in todays era). And when Chipper won it in 99 because he singlehandedly beat the mutts. I see that If the writers give the award based on overall stats (offense and defense)and leadership over a season the award will go to Andruw. If the award is based on offensive stats it will go to Pujols ( and the fact that he was robbed by Barroid Bonds 3 years straight). I wouldn’t mind them getting a tie, but I’m not the men who make the decisions… Go #10 A. Jones

By Biff

November 14, 2005 10:57 PM | Link to this

T’hawkin…I don’t know. I’ve been kinda surprised at the number of t.v. types that have been leaning toward AJ for MVP. I hope so…I think it’d be great for him. (though, who could not love Pulholz). It’ll be close. I’m a homer, but I haven’t seen many players carry a team the way AJ did this summer. The fall slump didn’t even matter, in the real world, but may be an excuse for some voters.

By the way, you might check minorleaguebaseball.com for cameron. I have no idea. While you’re there check on George Lombard for me!

By Tomahawkin

November 14, 2005 11:24 PM | Link to this

Lombard was last seen with the Tigers in 02, I’m a homer too… but I have a hunch that because of the Fact that Baroid Bonds robbed Pujols 3 years staright, the writers will consolate 3 second place years, and finally give the award to Pujols. I even think ESPN wants Jones to win the award, but 65% they’re speculation isn’t worth a damn, Just like every year they call for our demise… Go Braves!

By Biff

November 14, 2005 11:53 PM | Link to this

I thought Lombard was gonna be a star for my bullDawgs, til he signed with the Braves. Then I thought he was gonna be a star for the Braves, but it didn’t work out. And I thought sure he’d come back to bite us as a player somewhere, but guess not.

What an organization the Braves are! We’ve got some needs, and i don’t know how many WS we’ll win in the next few years (because you just can’t script that, ask the NYY), but what other organization is STOCKED at starting pitcher, middle infield (for the future, anyway), 3B, catcher, outfield, and in good shape at the others. Braves need to address some needs but not give away the store. The Yanks and Mets and Cubs are “in the hunt” for every free agent because they can’t touch the Braves for developing talent.

Hey, even if we DIDN’T win a division next year (which we probably will), the future is bright. GO BRAVES!

By Brian, Sandy Springs

November 15, 2005 12:17 AM | Link to this

Folks lets get real… the Braves will have to spend some money to stay competitive. The Mets and Cubs have the money and their investments will eventually pay off (as much as I hate to say that).

I believe that the money the Braves need to spend should be spent on the terrible bullpen. Let Furcal go and give Wilson the job. He has proven that he can hit and field very well.

By Paul

November 15, 2005 01:00 AM | Link to this

The real answer is for ownership to cough up some money and field a team strong in evey position. However, if they are going to field a bargain basement team it will probably be necessary to move either Furcal or Giles. Both are fine players, but Orr and Betemet could hold down second better than shortstop. Orr has excellent speed and makes good contact. I thought he bordered on the forgotten man this season. When he was given the chance to play he played well. Betemet is probably a better hitter than Giles. In an ideal world I’d rather have Giles and Furcal, but good shortstops and leadoff men are harder to find than #2 or #6 hitters, which is closer to what Giles really is. Someone in the blog mentioned Nomar. That might be a good semi-reclamation project. He could play either side of the diamond. The guy was once as good as it gets, they might hit the jackpot. The Braves have some good arms in their bullpen. Kolb needs to develop a solid second pitch that he doesn’t tip and mix the thing in more than once in 15 pitches - a closer he isn’t. Farnsworth can be a closer. He blew a game at a bad time, but he pitched well overall. Let’s face it, if the Braves don’t spend some money on their pitching, especially their bullpen, they might as well reactivate Glen Hubbard.

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2005 01:09 AM | Link to this

Yo Brian… Do You Know Who Owns The Team…? Come on dude to AOL/TW the braves are an afterthought, Its like we are slowly becoming the Minnesota Twins of the NL ( Were you at D.O.B. at backing me up on this, You Know as well as I know that the top Farm systems since the year 2000 began have been the Braves, A’s, Cubs, and Twins as far as producing above par major league talent). AOL is not going to spend anymore money on the team unless they have they get attendance to match the early 90’s braves (around 38 to 39 thousand a game). It sucks that AOL would stoop that low, but Carroll (Everyone knows that name) said it best. Why pay all that money, spend that much time in traffic, just to see a game in October when you know what’s going to happen

And Biff, Good Post, my Man, I remember telling my boys in 98 look out for a kid named marcus giles who hit 35 homers in AA, and a kid named Rafael Furcal who stole 99 bases that same year in AA… and both of those cats have not dissapointed to an extent at the major league level

Go Braves!

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2005 01:11 AM | Link to this

Kolb and Reeksma need to go, especially KOLB, that man made 3.4 million last year to do as poorly as he did, I can’t remember anyone worse that him during the last 10 years, other than Albie Lopez

By Scott

November 15, 2005 01:32 AM | Link to this

Giles should stay. There is just no way that the Braves could move him. He’s too valuable to the team on offense and defense. And I too think Thomson will be traded this offseason.

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2005 01:36 AM | Link to this

exactly scott, they people who want to see giles gone, must’ve forgot what he did in 03, he is too valuable, any team in the NL Other than the dodgers, nats, mutts, and stros, would love to have him

By Peter

November 15, 2005 05:29 AM | Link to this

You guys I think we’re missing some points here that could and will affect the Braves on and off of the field.

1)While Belliard was a light stick guy and no leadoff hitter the Braves didn’t need a leadoff hitter because they had one in Otis Nixon.

2)It’s not whether or not Furcal is worth the money (he IS if somebody will pay that) it’s that guys like Smoltz and Chipper say that “we need him” I don’t know what team everybody else has been watching but Furcal saves a lot of runs. His ability to get into the hole combined with his arm strength is going to be hard to replace. Now it’s not Furcal and Mazzone leaving it’s that they’re leaving because of money. We can talk about the occasional wild card team winning the WS but if we go cheap we might not get that.

It sends a message that when it comes to crunch time TW might not step up even if a WS is on the line. Lead off is important because who will be on base for Chipper and Andruw to drive in. They’ll get pitched to much tougher than they have in years.

3)We’re NOT going to get a good closer because we don’t have the money. Sometimes you get lucky but we have had more than our share of luck. Kelly Johnson looked sometimes overmatched and Francouer has a hole in his swing that you could drive Mama Cass through.

By Casey Hudson

November 15, 2005 05:29 AM | Link to this

I don’t know what you people are smoking, but I want some. Replace Furcal with Betemit/Lugo/Everett… at short? Langerhans or Johnson at lead off? Get real!

In his career he has 189 stolen bases. The rest of the Braves during that time had 366 combined. No shortstop in baseball had that many SB during that time. The only shortstop to score as many runs as Furcal over that time is Jeter. Only Jeter, Renteria, and Cristian Guzman have more hits.

All of that was while he had several injuries and, for my money, plays the best defense at shortstop in the universe. He makes plays every game that those other guys can only dream about. He makes plays look easy that Jeter could only hope to get his glove on. If you think that doesn’t matter in the win-loss column, you should stick to fantasy baseball. Just ask Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, or anyone else who has had Furcal behind them if they would rather have someone else. Ask Bobby Cox.

The Braves’ season turned around on June 16 when they started a 3 game sweep in Cincinnati. At the time, they were 33-32. Furcal was batting .220 after struggling with a shoulder injury that barely allowed him to swing the bat. Remember, he played almost every game in spite of that. A lesser player (see Sheffield, Drew, Boone, Weiss, Andres Thomas, etc.) would have missed an entire month or more rather than risk his career. At the time, Giles was batting .279, and he caught fire after that. The combination of those 2 getting on base in front of Chipper and Andruw caused the Braves to go 57-40 the rest of the way.

I remember 2 years ago when this newspaper and the talk shows were all saying that Furcal was certain to be gone before Spring to make room for Betemit. I got a good laugh then. Believe me, the Braves are not giving him up without a fight.

The Braves already picked up the option to pay Thomson $4.75 million next year. They obviously are not pinching pennies. As far as this imaginary $80 million ceiling, I have heard from several sources that Braves management is saying they will have more than that to spend next year. By my count, if you subtract the salaries of Kolb, Tom Martin, Mondesi, Franco, Gryboski, Jordan, and Eddie Perez, that’s about $10 million from the payroll on top of the $5.6 million Furcal made last year. That’s not counting whatever they ended up paying Farnsworth (I don’t think they will resign him. He’s not a reliable closer).

The bottom line is the Braves are always able to come up with the cash for unique players like Smoltz, Chipper, and Andruw. Furcal is one of those players that can’t be replaced.

By Casey Hudson

November 15, 2005 05:33 AM | Link to this

I don’t know what you people are smoking, but I want some. Replace Furcal with Betemit/Lugo/Everett… at short? Langerhans or Johnson at lead off? Get real!

In his career he has 189 stolen bases. The rest of the Braves during that time had 366 combined. No shortstop in baseball had that many SB during that time. The only shortstop to score as many runs as Furcal over that time is Jeter. Only Jeter, Renteria, and Cristian Guzman have more hits.

All of that was while he had several injuries and, for my money, plays the best defense at shortstop in the universe. He makes plays every game that those other guys can only dream about. He makes plays look easy that Jeter could only hope to get his glove on. If you think that doesn’t matter in the win-loss column, you should stick to fantasy baseball. Just ask Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, or anyone else who has had Furcal behind them if they would rather have someone else. Ask Bobby Cox.

The Braves’ season turned around on June 16 when they started a 3 game sweep in Cincinnati. At the time, they were 33-32. Furcal was batting .220 after struggling with a shoulder injury that barely allowed him to swing the bat. Remember, he played almost every game in spite of that. A lesser player (see Sheffield, Drew, Boone, Weiss, Andres Thomas, etc.) would have missed an entire month or more rather than risk his career. At the time, Giles was batting .279, and he caught fire after that. The combination of those 2 getting on base in front of Chipper and Andruw caused the Braves to go 57-40 the rest of the way.

I remember 2 years ago when this newspaper and the talk shows were all saying that Furcal was certain to be gone before Spring to make room for Betemit. I got a good laugh then. Believe me the Braves are not giving him up without a fight.

The Braves already picked up the option to pay Thomson $4.75 million next year. They obviously are not pinching pennies. As far as this imaginary $80 million ceiling, I have heard from several sources that Braves management is saying they will have more than that to spend next year. By my count, if you subtract the salaries of Kolb, Tom Martin, Mondesi, Franco, Gryboski, Jordan, and Eddie Perez, that’s about $10 million from the payroll on top of the $5.6 million Furcal made last year. That’s not counting whatever they ended up paying Farnsworth (I don’t think they will resign him. He’s not a reliable closer).

The bottom line is the Braves are always able to come up with the cash for unique players like Smoltz, Chipper, and Andruw. Furcal is one of those players that can’t be replaced.

By pl

November 15, 2005 06:56 AM | Link to this

Keep Furcal. Lead-off hitters are rare, although you can count on him to overswing about a third of his at-bats.

Andruw should be MVP. Been a while since a player has truly been a all around 5 tool player, not just a very good hitter

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this

Well, there’s certainly been alot of interesting banter since I left you folks last night… DOB gives us a shred of hope on Furcal and the place blows up somehow on Giles. I’ll say this about Giles: He is certainly a mixed bag when it comes down to hard boiled evaluation. Marcus does seem to swing from his heels quite often, but didn’t he lead the league in doubles?…tremendous gap to gap hitter. Marcus is without a doubt the major source of energy in that dugout… bouncing around, grinning, playing jokes… he really enjoys the game and I think it rubs off on the young guys. That being said , he doesn’t necesarily do the things a 2 spot hitter should do, like getting down the good bunt, or simply hitting to the right side to move runners. I love Marcus, don’t get me wrong, but if his leaving would facilitate keeping Furcal, I’d be for it. He’s much easier to replace with current pieces than Furcal, and doesn’t require you to replace w/ leadoff type. (I could easily see Furcal/Orr both as a DP combo and 1-2 tandem.) NO WAY would I want to replace both middle infielders! As far as Furcal’s status, Casey echoed my earlier point that JS does have some money to spend. If you can keep Furcal while seriously addressing the ‘pen woes, you have to. But if a Furcal deal hamstrings you into putting together another makeshift ‘pen, can’t do it. Here’s an interesting thought, and I hate to go here, but a less than reliable source reports that the Cubs have made overtures to the Marlins offering a couple of prospects for Pierre. Isn’t he a leadoff guy? Do they need two? Hmmm… Maybe Kinzer scared them off with his 5 yr./$50M talk…

By Kevin

November 15, 2005 09:11 AM | Link to this

Any comments on Alex Gonalez and Mike Lowell?

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

Kevin, INO Gonzalez is a classic underachiever. Braves seem to be set at 3b/1b, wouldn’t want Lowell at 2b.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

My last post, of course, should have read “IMO” not “INO” (In My Opinion.) Oops…

By Astro Joe

November 15, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this

Giles stepped up last season as a leader. He and Hudson were the guys that brought fun and humor to the club, which made the rookies more comfortable and productive. Surely you didn’t think that a bunch of youngsters decided to make the major league clubhouse of a perrenial winner into a fun place to be? It was Giles & Hudson. The Smoltz & Chipper “business man” approach is gone and the new leaders in the clubhouse are Giles & Hudson. Giles will not be traded. I think Furcal is gone. JS has learned to at least make us believe that we are fighting for a FA, which he has not done historically. But he would be foolish to significantly increase the cost of the SS position when we could have cheaper alternatives in another season. That’s just not smart business. Most of us will feel good that we tried, but the result will be the same. Furcal will sign for more and longer elsewhere (and I don’t blame him). LaRoche (on the other hand) made some very “unBrave” like comments toward the end of the season and I would not be surprised if he was dealt. But I continue to emphasize the need for a more reliable #3 starting pitcher. Father Time remains undefeated.

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Just read in the NY Post that the Mutts are willing to offer Wagner three-years, $36M with the possibility of a fourth year. If this isn’t just talk, JS can scratch Wagner off his list and probably Ryan & Hoffman (they’ll probably command around $8-10M as the next two sought after FA closers). If Farnsworth is serious about the $$$ in Detroit than signing with the Bravos for a little less, (it’s been reported here and in the press that more teams are after him as a set up man and not a closer, which would mean even less $$$) more power to him. Todd Jones or a trade for Baez looks like JS best options for a closer.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

Astro, as far as Giles/Furcal goes, I agree with you. I was simply putting forth what I felt might be interesting talking points. I truly believe RF is gone, and I also believe JS knows it… but he has to play “the game.” I also believe that JS has been working on this scenario long before we started talking about it, and that he has a plan. The trick, of course, is in the execution. I heard a conversation with Stan Kasten a while back, and those front office guys have charts projecting line-ups as far away as 5 years forward. They’re not unprepared. Interesting that this morning there are reports of the Braves having conversations with FLA about Alex Gonzalez…I don’t share your feelings about the rotation, but you make an interesting point inre Laroche. I have a funny feeling in that regard, and even though Chipper has publicly stated that he is not interested in another position change, my gut tells me that it could still happen. It just makes the most sense for the team. Here’s a question for you: Would Chipper be more open to moving to 1b or restructuring his contract to free up some $$$ ? My bet says he would rather make the move… I bet LeTwan will have an opinion on that one.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 15, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this

Raisins, LeTwan was a little surprised, too, to find peope arguing to keep Furcal and move Giles. LeTwan hopes it is not true that Furcal “can’t be replaced” because following an earlier DOB post we pretty much resigned ourselves to losing Furcal. Now, a glimmer of hope. If we can keep Furcal … absolutely do it … unless it means tying our hands for years and/or no money left for the pen. If that is the case, pencil in Betemit.

LeTwan sees a similarity here with Larry Jones. Larry, signed a big ol’ multi-year contract and (1) he probably can’t be traded, and (2) the players developed in this organization to replace him at 3B have nowhere to play. If the Braves move them to other teams, then when Larry suffers a career ending toe injury we’ll have no one ready to step in. At least at short, the team doesn’t have to stick with a guy because of an ill-advised contract decision. It’s better to keep a player because you want him not because his agent out-negotiated you.

If Chipper were tradeable, perhaps Marte and or Betemit step in and we are set for years - or until they are FA. Perhaps we send him to an AL team for a solution to one of our problems. Point being we move an aging Brave who still has some good baseball left instead of a young player with lots of good baseball ahead of him.

Giles has great strengths. He has a major flaw. He swings for the fence. A different manager rather than “Letting ‘em play” might teach/encourage/insist that he learn to hit behind the runner and lay down a bunt. Team baseball. Furcal has the same disease. Yet, they are outstanding players, both with strengths, both with the same weakness. HR fever.

LeTwan called it Bobby Ball once and was descended upon by the hordes (“hordes” is not a bad word, BBFan) but this team waits for the HR. A team with great pitching doesn’t have to have the HR every inning. Of course, a team with no pen can’t get enough runs no matter how they are brought in.

LeTwan doesn’t see moving Giles if Furcal goes. LeTwan doesn’t see moving Giles at all. Giles would be easier to replace, though, because of Furcal’s speed, range, arm, and on and on and on. That’s what’s made him the hot FA.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

Hi, Poc… I’ve never felt that JS would ever get into the Wagner/Hoffman/Ryan arena. I won’t restate my earlier points on Farnsy, but given the simple choice between him and Todd Jones for 2006 (only,) I ‘ll take TJones easily. 40/45 is a far cry better than what we experienced last year. They are probably similar in $$$ for next year, but Farnsy will want more years. We’ve got arms coming, but not for 2006. Someone earlier liked TJones a closer in 2006 while grooming Devine for beyond. I could see that… Devine might, I said might, thrive in the set-up role, much like Lidge as a youngster behind Wagner. Find a veteran lefty specialist and the ‘pen looks suddenly better.

By LeTwan Anthony

November 15, 2005 10:11 AM | Link to this

LeTwan watched the interview where Chipper said something like, “Uh, I’m not going to change positions ever again.” That pretty much made LeTwan think (and DOB reinforced it earlier) that Larry will play 3B only. Of course, if you want to move him somewhere, he has ML experience in LF. Put him out there with a basket and let Marte or Betemit play 3B.

By Charles

November 15, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

I’m glad to see we have a new clubhouse correspondent in Astro Joe. He knows who the team leaders are, who is cracking jokes in the clubhouse, who was making the rookies feel more comfortable, and who will and will not be traded. That is outstanding. Keep it up, Astro Joe.

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

VOR: I agree that JS wasn’t in the Wagner/Hoffman/Ryan race. I just posted that info for all the other bloggers who keep saying we should sign Wagner/Hoffman/Ryan (and there have been a few.)

Signing Jones or trading for Baez to be our primary closer this year would only help in the development of Devine. Like you said, he could learn in the setup role like Lidge (Devine could be McDowell’s first big coaching project) or spend a full year in AAA as a closer. I wouldn’t want to throw him as the closer this year and hope he finds his way.

Lefty specialist? I’ve mentioned Chris Hammond and Joey Eischen before as the two lefties JS should go after this winter. Both were lights out in that role last year. Eischen might command more money than Hammond (age) but Hammond had his best (resurgent) years as a Brave and was a BC favorite. Of course, I’m not advocating either one as a closer, just as a lefty specialist.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 10:38 AM | Link to this

I know of a tale where an aging, yet still productive MLB player was fixated on staying at his one chosen position while around him, his team was interested in him moving for the long term good of the team. The proud one-time all-star said, “This is my position, and I’ll have the final say as to when I give it up.” He continued to have productive years with the bat, but age began to creep up on him, and relatively small, yet nagging injuries, began to affect him. Finally, he became a defensive liability to his team and the once Golden Boy of his team became tarnished - even ridiculed at his inability to perform all facets of his game effectively. The biggest difference between Chipper Jones and Mike Piazza is that Piazza was not standing (or squatting as the case may be) in the way of his club’s top prospect. Chipper still plays a good 3b right now, but Marte needs no more Minor league AB’s. He needs Major League experience, and HE is the future. BTW, isn’t Chipper in a contract year in 2006? It seems to me that the 3b/1b versatility would make him a more valuable guy in the re-sign/FA game…

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this

Saw “Cold Pizza” This Morning and those cats are giving the MVP to andruw because they say no other guy has done more for his team than Andruw (even Pujols, because his defense is good, although he had an off year with the glove, but his defense is nowhere near as stellar as Andruw’s) And for once in a while I agree wit those clowns at ESPN, I sure hope there is an east caost bias in today’s announcement…

Go #10 A. Jones

Where U at? Carroll..

By andy

November 15, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

i think we should move pete orr to short, he’s got leadoff speed and hits like a leadoff man, and he batted .300 or so in his rookie season. the braves were patient with furcal’s defense, they should be patient with pete and he will come around.

By OUTLAWED

November 15, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

With or without Furcal the Braves are not going to the Big Dance so why pay him the $$$$? Rangers were bottom of their division for two years with $25 mil. man A-Rod. One player does not make an impact for the team, the team as a whole does make a difference and win it all like the White Sox did. Let Furcal go to the Cubs and find out what I-Rod found out when he went to the Tigers. GO BRAVES.

By Joe

November 15, 2005 10:54 AM | Link to this

Did I miss something last year that makes many of you believe that Marte is ready for the bigs? Of all the rookies that came up last year, he seemed the most overmatched and unprepared. Be realistic. Chipper stays. A healthy Chipper does his usual thing: .315, 30, 110.

It doesn’t matter who the Mets sign in the off season. They’ll find a way to end up in or near the cellar. Until they find a decent manager, that’s where they’ll stay.

If Furcal wants more $$$ and years, then let him go. We have too many strong SS prospects to offer him something huge. Marcus is a leader and a winner; he plays his arse off.

Strengthen the pen and find a serviceable shortstop (and pray that Francoeur doesn’t disappoint all of us offensively next year).

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2005 10:54 AM | Link to this

Alex Gonzalez Strikes out way too much, and he is homer happy like Furcal, in this big ballpark I don’t see him hitting more than 15 homers per season, And I think Mike Lowell for some reason isn’t the force he used to be before he got that contract… Thanx but no Thanx, I’m stll on the Fernando Vina Bandwagon although we already have a second baseman

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this

Rite! Rite! Joe, if the Mutts did sign Furcal, ESPN would be kissing their a-s-ses all season to find out that they will end up in the basement again, And about Marte, the few games I saw him he did look like he needed another year of seasoning in the Minors, I thought the same about Jose Capellan before we got screwed in the Dan Kolb deal

By BB FAN

November 15, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this

LeTwan Anthony, Why must you insist on taking jabs at me just about every time you post? I’m tired of your comments like; I promised BB FAN I would not do this or do that and that’s not a bad word, BB FAN. What is your problem? The only thing I ever said was that I was tired of the stupid Cox picks his nose jokes and the CJ is dumb jokes. 95% of them were absolutely stupid and not funny at all. I could less if you swear in your blogs. And you can continue on with your idiotic CJ is dumb jokes if you want, but it makes you look ignorant. Especially when you combine them with your third person bullsh!t.

Back to baseball:

I hope the Braves don’t re-sign Furcal because he wants TOO much money. It will keep them from fixing the only problem from last year…the bullpen. If the Braves don’t improve that, next year will be the same as this year; great starting picthing, good hitting, no bullpen. There are enough solid bullpen guys out there, they should be able to do something with the money available.

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this

Tomahawkin: I’m here, and I’m of course with you guys who say let Fooky go. The only way I’d want to keep him is if he resigned for 3-5 mill/year which aint gonna happen. If we spend more than that on him, look for a repeat of last season at best.

And I too like Vina but the guy is an injury magnet. Has he even played in the last 2 years? I know he went to the Tigers 3 years ago but haven’t heard of him since. What about Grudzialenak to play SS and hit leadoff? We could do a lot worse both offensively and defensively.

But again, my first choice is to go cheap and let WB play. That gives us the most financial flexibility to get some peb studs. For god’s sake Don’t do something stupid like trade prospects and spend 5 mill for Julio Lugey after one good year. That has Albie Lopez and Christian Guzman written all over it!

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

My two cents….Andrew definitely deserves the MVP award for how he carried the Braves through the summer but like Pujols the past three years, hard cold numbers will win out. To me, MVP isn’t just how many HRs, RBIs, OBPs, etc you have, it’s the value those numbers mean to your team. Without Pujols numbers, would the Cardinals still won the Central? Probably, but not by as many games. Without Andrew’s numbers, the Braves would not have won their 14th division title. To me, that is more valuable than number crunching. But, the MVP voters will be blinded by the numbers - A.Rod over Ortiz? c’mon - so Pujols will be MVP. But I will raise a pint or two high tonight if it’s Andrew.

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

Coe on, BB. LeTwan is hillarous….he even makes me jealous with his wit. And you have to admit that my joke about Roachi, CJ and the dog licking his go-betweens is a classic…I don’t care who ya are that’s funny right dere.

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this

What I meant to say was ‘like Pujols getting beat by Bonds the past three years….’ typing faster than I think.

By BB FAN

November 15, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

Pocahorner , Totally agree agree with you about the MVP. Andruw Jones was the reason the Braves won their 14 divsion title. They did so by only a game or two. Without him, they do not win. He should be the MVP. Not that Pujols does not deserve it as well. To bad, they both could not win it, but that is very rare.

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this

Poc… I’ve made that case plenty of times, because even w/o pujols the cards are still at the top of the heap because of a better overall lineup, a solid closer, and a starter that had a cy young season… Take Andruw out of our lineup, with our blowpen and were in last place in the east.. so all you writers out there, U tell me who won…

Carroll I think Lugo will end up being another Albie Lopez case.. so no thanx for him, And vina has been injury prone, but when healthy he’s one of the most fundamentally sound leadoff hitters in the game, But I don’t see him coming to the A via a trade, so I can Forget that

I know It ain’t going to happen but I’d like to see a trade for Michael Young of texas… That White Boy Clean

I think he leads the majors in Hits over the last 2 years, but all the press still goes to Jeter, Go Figure…

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

This is what I base my statements about Marte on: Did he look overmatched in his ~57 ML AB’s? Yeah, but, those AB’s were sporadic and far between. I think, again only my opinion, give him some extended playing time with some steady AB’s, and we’ll see his true potential. Remember, he just turned 22. My comparison is Betemit - labeled a disappointment until injuries forced him into the line-up for an extended period. He surprised us all to the point where most of us are willing to give him SS upon Furcal’s departure. For you stat guys, click here for Marte’s 2005 #’s.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

As far as Lugo goes, I’m not one to hold a grudge, but isn’t he the guy that bashed his wife’s head against his car in the stadium parking lot leading to his release from Houston? I’m not trying to indict the guy, but it could be something to consider…

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this

BBFan, Tomahawkin’: I know it’s been said a few times on the blog and I’m glad a lot of us share the same opinion, I just needed to say it to. Keeps the karma clean and the bar tab lower.

By Keith

November 15, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

Caroll, if you thought the Roache, CJ and dog licking joke was funny & orginal, then you must not be a GA fan. I think it the first job every GA fan learns except it’s the GT fan that wish he could that.

By OUTLAWED

November 15, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

Lugo is a wife beater. Do you still want him here. Bobby may like him since he like the same thing. Fact is a fact.

By Keith

November 15, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

It should be joke not job. I need to do a better job of editing my posts.

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

Tomahawkin, et al: don’t forget that when you’re talking about Poo-holes and the Cards, and how they would’ve won even without him….also consider that they were in a pitiful division, so they definitely would’ve won w/o Poo-holes. Whereas AJ and the Braves were in the most competitive division in baseball, and AJ was STILL able to lead the Braves to victory in spite of all the injuries. I think it should go to him. And all you peeps on here (especially RR) know that I am not just a homer and an AJ lover. I’ve had my beefs with him over the years but he really showed me sumpin last year!

By Rod

November 15, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

I have never been a fan of the platoon idea. I read where some fans think a platoon of Langy and Johnson would be better for Atlanta. I disagree. In my opinion, the platoon doesn’t allow a player to become completely “relaxed” at a position. Perhaps I’m wrong, it wouldn’t be the first time or the last. Your leadoff spot is so critical, I just don’t see how you can take the gamble of platooning it.

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

Rod: it doesn’t even make sense to platoon those two since they’re both lefties.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this

AJ is the MVP. And it is Most Valuable Player, not Player of the Year. I really don’t see the comparison when you ask the question: Who was more valuable to his team? I agree, the Card’s probably still win without Pujols, and the Cubs didn’t win with Lee. So there…

By Rod

November 15, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this

Carroll: I agree with you. Just commenting on an earlier post by Jeff Gray.

By Rod

November 15, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this

I agree that AJ is deserving of the MVP this year. Every year, the rumors are that Pujols will win, and he hasn’t yet. Frenchy got shafted, but then again I’m an ATL fan and perhaps my views are scewed. I’ve been reading today on some free agents and the commentary posted with them as far as rumors go, and I don’t see the Braves listed anywhere. It was said that Todd Jones was prob going back to Fla, and Atl wasn’t going to bring Farnsworth back. (No surprise on the last one). Has anyone heard different?

By Joe Roman

November 15, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

I am not an accountant. I am a Braves fan. I am also a Furcal fan. I sincerely hope the Braves can structure something. Who are the Cubs kidding? Signing God wouldn’t change things for them. They are WAY more than one players away.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 12:25 PM | Link to this

Joe, I gotta think that God would probably change the Cubbies’ fortunes. I know He can pick ‘em at short (0 errors, ever) and talk about power to all fields. Plus, what a great clubhouse presence! I’d take Him…

By Kevin

November 15, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this

Okay, we let Furcal go, play Betemit and bring up Pena for late inning defensive replacement. We then try and get a leadoff hitter for left with Langerhans spelling each outfield at least once a week. maybe Pierre, I know he is a center fielder but we would then have some serious speed in the outfield. Marte, new firstbaseman and use LaRoche, Kelly Johnson for some SOLID bullpen help and use the extra money on Todd Jones to close and Matt Morris, say goodbye to Thompson. we still have tradeable players with Reistma and Estrada,to fill out the bench with serviceable players no way I would trade Boyer, Lerew,Davies or Chuck James. I know alot of people like LaRoche but he just disappears too much for me. Food for thought

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

Kevin: agreed with everything and especially about trading Reeksma. The Rockies seem to want him bad (go figure) so i say GIVE HIM to them already! I don’t even particularly care what we get in return! I also love the idea of Eischen as the lefty outta the pen along with McBribe and for god’s sake get rid of foster (australlian for sucks!)

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

Lightening Rod: I just read in the Ft. Lauderdale paper that the Braves have inquired about Alex Gonzalez. Again, I think it’s a mistake to spend on anything other than the following (listed in order of priority):

1. closer
2. mid relief
3. new 1st baseman
4. leadoff

The Marlins are also shopping Lowell and willing to eat a bunch of his contract. WOuld he be a decent fit at 1st base? I know he had a horrid year, but was that just an exception? I know he’s been a killer in the past. And he adds some versatility in his ability to play 3rd, 2nd and 1st. Thoughts?

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

Kevin, I’m with you on most of that, but you can’t take a rookie whose never played 1b, stick him there and expect him to adjust to ML pitchers as well. Just too much to ask of any rookie. I’d be real happy with Pierre in left and leading off, but I don’t think FLA would want him in their division rival’s line-up. I do think, however, that John Thomson and his $4.75M may be trade-bait. If you can get something of real value in return, bye-bye Laroche. Pena will get his shot in spring to prove that he belongs, but I feel sure that BC and JS will want a veteran as their backup SS. Here’s a FA SS name that nobody’s mentioning: Royce Clayton. Not bad numbers last year… click here for his career stats including 2005… What’s his story? Is he healthy? Is he asking for a buttload of $$$ ? Am I asking too many questions?

By Biff

November 15, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

Letwan, I was one of those “hordes” who jumped you about Bobby Ball. I’m learning that civility pays off in here…so sorry, man.

Regarding Chipper (sorry, just getting caught up with you guys), and Marte. IMO, Marte is nowhere near ready for starting this year, and depending on how the roster shakes out, he should probably spend another year at AAA to get plenty of ab’s. He was just up last year due to injuries. He just turned 22, I think.

Then in ‘07, he’s on the roster, but backing up 3B and 1B (surely Franco will be in Boca by then); and ready to take over when CJ’s contract runs out, or his knees, whichever comes first.

Who knows how it will play out, but that’s the scenario I would like to see.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

More on Royce Clayton (desired specifically as a back-up.) Look here for some very interesting info. Seems like a good clubhouse guy that might could come on as a PH and actually move a baserunner over - something my beloved Braves have proven an inability to do. Also, he led NL SS’s in fielding % last year. Sounds like a decent SS back-up to me…

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

OK… now that I have read my own link, I see that Clayton isn’t interested in a bench role for 2006, so in the immortal words of Roseanne Roseannadanna, never mind…

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this

OK… now that I have read my own link, I see that Clayton isn’t interested in a bench role for 2006, so in the immortal words of Emily Litella (Gilda Radner on SNL), never mind…

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 01:18 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the double post… tried to catch my error before it posted…

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Carroll: Looking at Lowell’s stats it seems he’s never played 1B in the majors so couldn’t say how good he would be there (though he was/is a darn fine 3B). Last year may have been a blip in his career (average, power all down) so IF JS decided to go that route, Lowell would be an power option at 1B if the Marlins picked up some of his salary ($16M/2006-07).

That said, interdivisional trades are rare, and I don’t think the Marlins really want to help the Braves out. And vice versa. This is the year LaRoache needs to produce. He’s our best option at 1B out of spring training. It will be only his second full season as a starter so this is the year he need to show he can get it done. Like you said, let’s concentrate on the bullpen this off-season. JS can always wait till the trading deadline in August if we need more production at 1B.

By Biff

November 15, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

Laroche has one more year before he’s arbitration-eligible. I know he’s a ligtning rod because of the preceived lack of intensity, but the guys numbers are pretty good for a 2nd year man and he still cost practically nothing. To go after Lowell…I think then we’re trying to play the Mets/Cubs/Yankess game…building on veterans — and we really have to pick our spots to do that. We won’t win at that game.

Give Laroche another year. All he needs to do is make a little more contact, get the average up to about .280. He’s got good natural power and does produce runs; play Marte some at 1B in AAA this year; if Adam doesn’t produce, bring Marte in in ‘07.

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

Fair enough. But by the same token, let’s not waste time/money/prospects on the likes of Julio Lugey, Alex Gonzalez, Royce Clayton, and god forbid Adam Everett (don’t you know the ChiSox took a refreshing breath of relief every time that guy stepped up to the plate!).

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

Absolutely. Couldn’t agree with you more, Carroll….

By Biff

November 15, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

I’m on board with that. My concern is much more a closer for a year or two; to me, SS/leadoff is an issue, but not a crisis. I LOVE the “building from within” thing so I do hope we’ll be pretty conservative in dealing young talent.

By Robert (Justice is the best)

November 15, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

I agree, Biff. Some veterans are okay but you have to really be careful about who you brng in. We have more than enough in house talent to be successful.

By Robert (Justice is the best)

November 15, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

I keep preaching this. If we don’t have a decent bullpen then we will be in the exact same predicament as last year.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

It’s official, AJ was jobbed in MVP… Poo-hole got it…

By Biff

November 15, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

Poco, you guessed it. Pujols is MVP.

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

Raisins: that sucks.

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

I’m no Nostradamus…I think we all saw the writing on the wall. Let me see what ‘they’ had to say about Pujols and Andrew..

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this

The early comments I here on Poo-hole is that he was SOOOO close finishing 2nd to Barry the last 2 years. I guess this was MVP for 2003-2005…

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

I hate to resort to name calling of Pujols, but I’m very disappointed… my apologies…

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

I, of course meant “I hear,” not “I here.” See? I’m all torn up…

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this

It was all about the numbers. But that’s no surprise. When they voted A. Rod MVP in 2003 on a last place Rangers team, well it’s obvious what the writers base their votes on. They don’t consider the intangibles and the value of the players numbers. Again, I’m not surprised, just disappointed. Andrew definitely had a MVP season. Waiting to hear the debate on ESPNEWS Hot List. I also wonder how many 1st place votes Andrew got.

By Biff

November 15, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

Guess that squashes the Laroche for Pujols deal, huh.

I would’ve loved to see AJ win it, but I agree, Poco, I can understand the vote. Best numbers on the best team; and yes, the “bonds” thing probably did come into play. Puhols is a GREAT hitter and a great guy, from everything I know, so Congratulations to him.

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

Raisins: it’s okay (the name calling) it’s all in fun.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 02:22 PM | Link to this

Poc… the numbers were:

Pujols - 1st=18, 2nd=14, 3rd=0, Total=378 points

AJ - 1st=13, 2nd=17, 3rd=2, Total=351 points

By LeTwan Anthony

November 15, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

Kevin, when JS goes you can come right in. You had some good ideas and some different ideas. The team needs tweaking, not ruining. Just a little something here and there and a whole lot of something in the pen.

Now BBFan, LeTwan has been reprimanded by you too many times to get his feelings hurt this time. You asked LeTwan to stop with the nose jokes (and LeTwan was just laughing at another blogger named Booger) and you aked LeTwan to stop with the Chipper jokes, too. LeTwan is guilty there. LeTwan is also pretty sure you don’t think he could raise $20 to blog with you (not that anyone would). LeTwan does not curse. Where did you get that? And LeTwan will let you have this one in first person so you will appreciate it more … BBFan, I ain’t sending you a Christmas card this year!

How about that Hollandsworth!

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

Yep. But if they’re gonna take all those things into consideration, I think they should rename it the “best player award”. BEcause they’re not taking into account all the things that makes a player valuable to his team. For example, in the AL race b/t A-Fraud and Pappi, why not consider that Pappi only costs a fraction of A-Fraud…thus, he’s more valuable to his team because he does virtually the same things as A-Fraud for a lot less, allowing them to get even more players….AND he’s more clutch…ie.e: his numbers were more valuable to the team because he did them at more opportune times.

Also, I’ve always been bitter about the 1993 award going to Bonds. To me, the Braves were a team destined for failure that year until McGriff came along. He single-handedly propelled that team into the playoffs…numbers not quite as good as Bonds, but very good nevertheless. And look at what he meant to his team….the ultimate team goal is getting to the playoffs and he helped his team do that…Bonds did not!

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

VOR: Thanks for the vote breakdown. Very close indeed which will make for some interesting disscussion about the award.

Carroll: Without ARod in the lineup, the Yankees could have done just fine (and saved a ton of money - without going to Geico). Big Papi was there in the clutch for the BoSox winning games they would have lost. To me, besides just the numbers, that’s what makes you valuable. When Pendleton won the 1991 MVP it was for leading the Braves to their first WS in years. Same for Chipper in 1999. Good point about McGriff.

But like the new trend in GMs, it’s all about sabermetrics. Numbers. Stats. Great for choosing a roto team, but not the sole reason to choose a MVP.

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

Dat was straight up BULLSH!T, I’d knew that since the Aaron award went to Andruw, Pujols would get the MVP, THAT BLOWS. F******* Those writers, and F******* the unbalanced schedule!

I got love for Pooholes, but If put andruw in that division he hits 60 homeruns. It seemed like everytime I saw the cardinals they were playing either the reds or the pirates

F******* the cardinals, I’m p**, that ruins my day!

By LeTwan Anthony

November 15, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

Andruw was robbed. But, Pujols is a pretty good winner, don’t you think? Exciting player. He sure quieted the crowd at Minute Maid Park when, facing elimination, he hit that game winner with two outs in the ninth. Still, AJ is MVP at the Anthony house. Plus, Mama says he has a nice smile all the time.

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

Carroll: The short version was, “I agree”…

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

Better Pujols than Derrick Lee.

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

Better pujols than Barroid Bonds, That was a conspiracy, I bet those turds, Joe Buck and Tim McCarver had something to do with the voting

By Robert (Justice is the best)

November 15, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

I think Andruw got robbed. Even more than Ortiz did. The fact is if Andruw’s average was 30 points higher, he would have won. Not to mention I think they vote on postseason as well no matter what they say. If Andruw had propelled the Braves into the NLCS, he would have won it.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin… how do you really feel?

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this

Interesting fact: AJ had 128 RBI from only 154 hits. That’s pretty clutch…

By Tomahawkin

November 15, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

I suppose ur jokin right, I’m in a pi$$ed state of mind right now, not because I don’t like Pujols getting the M.V.P. but the fact that I live in Cardinals country even more makes hate the fact the Andruw got screwed.

When I saw that Headline on the Front page of the AJC about Pujols winning the MVP award. I got so p** that I almost started acting Girly like Prince

By Robert (Justice is the best)

November 15, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

I understand that the Cardinals had the best record in baseball and the Puljos numbers are outstanding, but Andruw carried this team on his back for 2 months and even when his average started dropping he continued to come through in the clutch.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

It’s cool, Tom, I’m pretty hacked, too… It wouldn’t surprise me at all if some of those stat-geek rotospanker voters didn’t give Barry a few votes, as well…

By Robert (Justice is the best)

November 15, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this

The MVP award is all about numbers and not how valuable a guy is to their team. If the voters voted in the true spirit of the award then Ortiz and Jones would have won. Nothing agaist A-Rod or Albert because they are both excellent players.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 03:34 PM | Link to this

Perhaps they should award both the Most Valuable Player and Most Outstanding Player. That might put this type of debate to rest and give MLB the continued offseason pub they crave. Then, again, look how much we’re already talking about baseball during the peak of football season…

By Chop Chop

November 15, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

Andruw had a great year, but numbers do mean something. Also, Rolen was basically hurt all year for the Cards. Walker and Sanders missed a ton of time. Pujols continued to do his thing despite those injuries. I know Andruw carried the Braves until Chipper came back, but Pujols carried the Cards all year. As much as I would’ve liked to have seen Andruw win the MVP, I know that I’d rather see him put up numbers like that consistently. If he does that, he’ll get an MVP someday.

By B.J.

November 15, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

I must take the John Kerry position on this issue. I do see why the Braves need to cut ties with Furcal, however, there is virtually NO leadoff options—unless they can insure Lugo. Again, there are NO other options at this time. Someone earlier suggested taking a “J.D. Drew” chance on Nomar—and I’m really warming to that possibility. I wouldn’t bat him leadoff, however. He doesn’t take enough pitches, and he doesn’t walk enough—not a good omen for a leadoff hitter.

I love installing Wilson in the SS position defensively, but he’s not a leadoff hitter either—he’s a BONEFIED #2 hitter. Someone said trade Giles, and that’s not a bad idea, because the last thing you need at the top of the order is a SLUMP….

Everybody is also griping about Furcal being the only leadoff option when the TRUTH of the matter is that he is a BETTER #2 hitter (remember his rookie season, when he was SECOND behind Jose Veras?) than he is at leadoff. He gets home run happy, and is not guarenteed to get the pitches to hit leading off if he would with a runner at first ALREADY.

I like Kelly Johnson best (among the current Braves options) at leadoff because HE TAKES PITCHES, and usually only swings at STRIKES. This guy WILL win a batting title someday. He is still raw, of course, but he is most of the way there just by knowing what a strike looks like…

This is the toughest call they’ve had thus far in this run, and with Philly poised to make a FULL SEASON run at the Braves next year, they must make the right decision this time. I have to lean towards letting Furcal walk, shoring up the pitching with the money that is allocated for him, and restoring Braves baseball back to the 4-3, 2-1 days. In this case, you don’t need tons of scoring opportunities. Get people out, get a bloop from someone, and a blast from Andrew and/or Chipper, and get people out again, and the Braves can maintain this streak. However, if they tie up money on Furcal, it may insure a decent offense, however, as long as the pitching is loose, then it will be hard to hold Philly off this time.

(Do we need to remind you of how Houston got to the World Series with virtually NO offense?) In this game, as long as you GET PEOPLE OUT, then you don’t need too much offense at all. THAT’S the priority of the Braves—BRING PEOPLE IN HERE WHO CAN GET PEOPLE OUT!!!!!!!!!! However, if you can get Furcal, get him.

I told you I was John Kerry on this one (on both sides of the issue).

By Pocahorner

November 15, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

Tiim Kirkijan was on ESPNEWS Hot List and he defended his choice this way (and I’m paraphrasing) - Pujols deserved the award because he was the best player on the best team. Only one other player on the team had more than 70RBIs. They had 10 different cleanup hitters behind him. Four of their starting eight were injured. Albert single handedly carried the Cards to the title.

Where to begin….

First, yes, I can’t argue about Albert winning the MVP. He had a great season and was an impact player. That said, if you applied Kirkijan’s arguement to Andrew’s year, you get this - only two players drove in more than 70RBIs on the Braves (VOR, great point about 128RBI on only 154H). Andrew batted cleanup, but how many different Braves hit behind him? Or protected him in the five hole? And even though we didn’t have as many opening day starters go down, the most potent bat (argueably) in the lineup (Chipper) was out for a large chunk of the season. Andrew single handedly carried the Braves to their division title.

IMO, Andrew wasn’t robbed, but he does have reason to file a complaint.

By Chop Chop

November 15, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

By the way, Biff, I like to check out the Boston Dirt Dogs site most days. That’s where I really got the info about Dayton Moore possibly going to the Red Sox.

text to be linked

Check it out sometime. I think it would be cool if Braves fans could put together a site as good as that…

By Biff

November 15, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

BJ, good points. Only exception I would take is that IF WB is a natural number 2 hitter, just move Giles down to 6th or 7th. I don’t think that would destroy his psyche (he’s a pro); and I tend to like Langerhans over KJ at leadoff if we go that route, but whichever works out, is okay with me. I agree…spend the $$ on pitching.

By Biff

November 15, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Chop Chop. Actually, I’m a site designer (that’s why I can sit around here and blog all day). You get the funding, I’ll do the work!

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

BJ, you make too much sense to be John Kerry on anything… My stand has been all along that SS/leadoff is secondary to the ‘pen needs. They’ll take care of offense, but the 14 year formula has been pitching and defense. I’d like to believe you about KJ, but I’ve got to see more first. My belief continues to be: Take care of closer first, the rest of the ‘pen will shake out next, then worry about the regular 8.

By Robert (Justice is the best)

November 15, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this

I think that if we only get the closer and bullpen situation straightened out then we are in good shape.

By chuck

November 15, 2005 05:08 PM | Link to this

Baez and Huff,why not,Baez could be the coser and Huff could play first or left fieled,why not tade Laroche and a couple of minor leaegue pitchers and Anthony Larew.I live in Tampa Bay Area but i am a Braves fan who have followed the Braves since they moved from Milwaukee to Atlanta,Baez would give them the needed closer and Huff would give them a good power hitter,also they could work out some kind of deal to also get Lugo thrown into that deal,why not Huff,Baez and lugo,that solves the needs,Let Furcal go and get these guys,also why not sign someone like Bob howry as the set up man,especially if we get Baez to close,Reitsma is no setup man nor is he a closer,i sure with a little manuevering JS could pull off a trade with Tampa Bay to get these guys.

By Steve

November 15, 2005 05:47 PM | Link to this

Who I think the Braves is really need is Marcus’ brother Brian. If you think about it, they had no consistent hitting force hitting fifth in the lineup to protect the Joneses, could hit a lot more homers out of Petco, plus he walks a lot, and you could break up the lefties and righties by hitting Andruw 4th, Brian Giles 5th, Francouer 6th, and Laroche 7th. If payroll is an issue and if it were up to me, I would rather have Brian Giles and Wilson Betemit than Furcal and Langerhans. Also, Giles might take less to play on the same team with Marcus.

By Biff

November 15, 2005 06:01 PM | Link to this

To me, James looks “untouchable” but I don’t quite see that with Lerew. Anyone who’s really a junkie have any insight on this?

Steve, to me, the same problem exists with B Giles that exists with Furcal. If we could sign him for 1 year, great (I guess). But he’s 34 and probably wants a 4 or 5 year contract. I just can’t see the Braves doing that with some pretty good cheap talent just hitting stride.

By chuck

November 15, 2005 06:09 PM | Link to this

i mentioned previously about trading for Baez and huff,if the Braves did that they could move Chipper to first,put Huff in left field,and play marte at third,also they couls include KJ in the deal mentioned before,that would give Tampa Bay a firstbaseman in laroche,an up and coming young player in KJ and a young pitcher for the future in Larew and 2 lower level minor leaguers.also Braves need to try and trade Johnny Estrad for some bullpen help as McCan should be the eveyday catcher.also Jose Mesa might come cheap to help in the bullpen but not as closer.get rid of Reitsma,kolb,brower,non tender them,free up that money.

By Carroll

November 15, 2005 06:26 PM | Link to this

Steve: Brian will be WAY too expensive for his age.

Chuck: what are the chances, if any, that we could pry CC away from Tampa…there’s your leadoff man.

BJ: I agree but don’t think it’s that important to have a true leadoff man. After the first inning of the game, does it really matter?

By chuck

November 15, 2005 07:58 PM | Link to this

yes that would be great to get CC from TB,yes he would be a great leadoff man but it would never happen,he is the player the devil rays are built around,i would love to see him in a braves uniform,the only way that would happen would be with free agency and new Braves owner who aint afraid to spend money.

By Joe Roman

November 15, 2005 08:36 PM | Link to this

Funny reply, V.O.R. Maybe you are right. I got carried away because all the various Jesus’s haven’t made much of an impact. As for us, let’s put our faith in J.S.

By HAROLD LEE SCOTT

November 15, 2005 08:44 PM | Link to this

i’ve commented on this topic before, but furcal might be the most important signing for the braves this year for them maintaining the great season they had last year. they already have a lot going for them. keep most of thier present players for they proved they had the talent, attitude, togetherness, spirit, desire, determination, to be a winner. there could be one or two pick ups to improve the team, but be careful not trade away someone who was key last year. in other words don’t detroy the great thing the team had going by letting anyone go that was key. that includes people like davies, james, devine, mcbride, orr, langerhans, boyer, farnsworth, rameriz, sosa, and maybe some others, and differently no first liners. pick up only someone who could really help. then just improve on all the things the team had going for it this past year.

By Voice of Reason

November 15, 2005 10:34 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop… Dayton Moore has officially withdrawn from the Red Sox GM sweepstakes tonight. I thought you’d like to know…

By PapawJames

November 15, 2005 11:17 PM | Link to this

Chuck, I agree with you about Huff as I said a day or 2 ago. But if they can’t get Lugo a good option is if the Angels happen to get Manny they might unload SS Orlando Cabera who the Braves inquired about in the past. When Cabera was hurt they was impress with that rookie. He has a good bad and real good defensively. The Angels are looking for a Catcher and starting pitcher.But JS will get the pitching he needs for sure.No doubt. I hope they have a chance for BJ Ryan.As far as LaRoache he start his 3rd year as he is cheap and good for the money.

By Chop Chop

November 15, 2005 11:19 PM | Link to this

I actually read that on the Boston Dirt Dogs site a little while ago. It seems as if Schuerholz charmed Moore into staying. It’s glad to know that John is looking ahead to the future of this franchise.

By Kentavo

November 16, 2005 12:17 AM | Link to this

Nay to Todd Jones. He’d be Kolb-lite. Let’s face it, Furcal will not be back with the Braves. I like the Nomar one-year deal. Gives Bravos some extra offensive punch and star power. Then it’s time to go after pitching, pitching, pitching. Trade some young’uns for reliable bullpen arms that have pitched during playoff pressure before. Trade Reeksma. Rockies want him.