AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2005 > November > 07 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USWriting’s on the wall: Adios, Furcal
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The writing is on the wall, so don’t be surprised if by the weekend Rafael Furcal has a four-year, $38 million (or more) offer from the Cubs and/or Mets and the Braves are basically saying goodbye to their leadoff hitter and cannon-armed shortstop.
When John Schuerholz said this morning that he had no scheduled meeting with agent Paul Kinzer, that it would happen when it happen, it sent a signal _ at least to me _ that the Braves are already planning to replace Furcal. If for some reason he doesn’t get what his agent’s expecting him to command on the open market and the Braves are comfortable going to, say, $8 mill per year, well, maybe they’ll welcome him back. But that seems highly unlikely at this point.
As far as how they’ll replace him, still no solid buzz or rumors circulating around the GM meetings, which got underway here today at Indian Wells, but have been thus far uneventful. I keep seeing Julio Lugo’s name mentioned by bloggers, and it does make some sense, since the Devil Rays don’t want to pay him and have other needs to fill.
Just had a conversation with Peter Gammons and a New York writer and mentioned Lugo as possibility to replace Furcal, and both of them _ for what it’s worth _ said they liked him, good player, etc. I only mention it because they’ve seen him a ton, being in the AL East, where Lugo’s played since coming over from Houston in 2003.
My only concern with Lugo is that his .295 average, 39 stolen bases and .362 on-base percentage this season were so much better than most of his other seasons, and I’m not certain that’s what we could expect, especially if he switches leagues again. In the previous four seasons, he didn’t bat higher than .275, averaged just over 13 stolen bases, and didn’t have an OBP higher than .338. Those are not good numbers, folks. But maybe he turned a corner. That’s a gamble the Braves would have to be willing to take. Then again, if they could get him for a year or two, just long enough to hold the fort until one of their stud young shortstops is ready, then Lugo or someone of similar ilk might be the answer they’re looking for.
The thing the Braves have going for them in a big way during this week and this winter is so much strength from which to make trades. The Yankees would kill to have expendable young players and prospects like the Braves have; the Braves have four or five high-quality catchers in their system, and some teams don’t have one. They have 6-7 quality middle-infield prospects; most teams don’t have more than one or two.
But if you’re going to work under an $80 million payroll, you have to have good young players. The Braves have hit a homer many times over in that regard. They couldn’t have asked for more than they got from young players this year. No team could ever expect to have 18 rookies during a season and reach the postseason. Much credit for that, of course, goes to Bobby Cox, who is almost too good for the Braves’ own good. By that, I mean, they feel like this $80 million payroll provides a “sweet spot,” in the words of prez Terry McGuirk, meaning the mix of young and older players that an $80 mill payroll requires is also a mix that sparks the fans and keeps things lively in the dugout and clubhouse.
But the other side of that, the other argument, is that with any other manager, using 18 rookies during the season would probably have spelled disaster. The Braves know whichever players they give Cox, he’ll get max effort out of them. They perform better, time and time again, for Bobby at the major league level, than they did in the minors. That’s crazy, how often that happens with the Braves. And that’s mostly Cox.
For you Cox-bashers, you’ll like this. I literally just got interrupted while writing this blog by a phone call from — and I’m not trying to name-drop here, honestly — Scott Boras, who was upset with something I wrote today. But in the course of the conversation, Boras got around to talking about Cox and said he’s “the most underpaid person in baseball, and you can quote me on that.” He considers Cox the best talent evaluator in the business, bar none. And Boras also said he sees the postseason a bit differently than some (i.e. fans).
But hey, I got off on a tangent there. Boras threw me off my game temporarily. The man can certainly let you have it when he feels strongly about something. But there’s something to taking a call from Boras and having him unload on you. Because he always has a point, and he’s usually got a valid one. He just hates to look bad in print. So would I.
OK, back to meetings. I’ll let you know if I hear any juicy rumors, but just haven’t heard any year. Oh, and Francoeur finished third in rookie of year balloting. There should be a story posted on our website now that I just finished.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Carroll
November 7, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this
Lugo, based on the entirity of his career, would not offer much more than WB. There is no need to spend any kind of money on him when we have WB at or near the minimum. Spend it all on pitching.
By joec
November 7, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this
I say lets not worry about free agents right now the Braves cannot control who may be leaving, instead lets try to figure out how the Braves can fix what they can cotrol through trades. I believe the Dodgers would be interested in Andy Marte, they need a young third baseman and looks like he will rot with Atlanta, trade him for Yhency Brozoban to improve the bullpen.
By joec
November 7, 2005 04:38 PM | Link to this
As far as shortstop goes, I like WB, but he is more suited as a utility guy.How about Chone Figgins af the Angels? Is this realistic? Could the Braves give up Johnny Estrada for him? The Angels are going to need a catcher with Benji Molina leaving.
By Allen
November 7, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this
Hate to see Furcal jump ship, but you have to believe the Braves have learned their lesson about giving out big dollar multi year contracts. Chipper comes to mind. Before all you start bashing me about Chipper, I am just saying the Braves can not have a self imposed salary cap and spend $17MM on one guy even CJ and half the budget on 4 guys and expect to get there. Back to Furcal, have to beleive JS has a plan to address his void and is simply not willing or able to spend the market to keep him. The only thing that puzzles me is why they would excercise Thompsons option for $5MM. Can see that one to be honest.
By A Lifer
November 7, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this
i just don’t see lugo being “the answer” to our short stop question. maybe i don’t just don’t have the “eye for talent” or something. in my mind, if the braves go with lugo, then they have to trade for pierre to lead-off. lugo was never successful in the nl, why would it be different now? if lugo is a target of the braves (hopefully short term until the farm system produces are shortstop of the future), i think a trade for pierre would be the best possible move the braves could make, and look to bat lugo 8th. while i would miss furcal, he never really was a good lead-off hitter (i always thought he would be best batting 2nd). pierre would more that fit the need and he would be relatively inexpensive, and young to boot.
if the braves could do that, i could live with a lineup of 1.) pierre 2.) giles 3.) chipper 4.) andruw 5.) laroche 6.) francoeur 7.) mccann 8.) lugo
By OUTLAWED
November 7, 2005 05:06 PM | Link to this
Betemit is a good and a cheap choice to replace Furcal. Furcal is a great shortstop but we have to have a solid starter and a good closer until Devine is ready. Same story with will continue like Glavine’s, say Furcal goes to Muts or the Cubs, nothing going to change, the Braves will win the division with or without him, he will be watching his old teammates playing say Houston on TV. O’Brian has a great article, he is giving us a great story and his opinion about the whole situation. I don’t care who is playing for the BRAVES as long as they take our beloved Braves to the WORLD SERIES. GO BRAVES.
By Kyle
November 7, 2005 05:23 PM | Link to this
Just a thought but what about Nomar? I haven’t heard his name mentioned to any other team and I wonder if we could get him for a low one year deal? I think they could take a chance on him since he did prove he could hit in the last moonth of the season when he came back from his injury.
By geauxbraves2000
November 7, 2005 05:27 PM | Link to this
JS has a knack when players have reached their prime, and I’ve seen others leave The Braves for big bucks elsewhere and not do so good. I want Furcal to stay, but I don’t want The Braves to mortgage the farm for him. If he goes, JS will replace him.
By anotherearlyexit
November 7, 2005 05:29 PM | Link to this
Dave, what exactly did you write that put Boras in a bad light? What was his take on the post-season? Don’t tease us? I like your thoughts on Renteria but will Boston actually be a player in Indian Hills with their GM by committee approach? How does compensation for Furcal work? Any draft picks coming the Braves way? Don’t they have to offer arbitration to get compensation? I think the Braves will be very active with all the prospects they have as you pointed out …….. Do you think the Braves have any interest in BJ Ryan?
By Jay
November 7, 2005 05:30 PM | Link to this
I hate to see Furcal go also, since he’s one of “our guys”, raised in the Braves’ system…but I guess this is 21st century baseball. Betemit was our five-star prospect for a long time, so let’s give him his shot. And BTW, I find it highly ironic that Scott Boras - the embodiment of greed and What’s Wrong With Baseball - would “appear” in the middle of a blog about losing Furcal. I don’t know what you said, Mr. O’Brien, to upset him, but I’m glad you did. I wish he and Donald Fehr would hold hands and jump off the Golden Gate Bridge.
By Peter
November 7, 2005 05:52 PM | Link to this
The Big Lie
First, all MLB teams will have increased revenue before the first ticket is sold. MLB redid the media packages (including XM radio) so every team has more money to spend. TW is keeping the extra money. Again I say the Braves are a cheap reality series for TW. Low production costs and if the Braves are contenders, increased ad revenues. If it’s NOT true then why are the Braves constantly on basic cable?
Furcal is the first player (since we’ve entered the cost cutting era) that is from our system and on his first turn at free agency who will be allowed to leave.
People there are not a lot of guys who can do what he does. It’s not a fantasy league. The team has to be strong up the middle and everyone wants to trade Andruw and let Furcal go.
Furcal gets to many more balls that WB will ever get to and Betemit is NOT an everyday player. The “young guys” have played HALF of one season. All of a sudden they’re what we’ll base the future on?
If Pete Orr was an everyday guy he’d have been out there everyday. This isn’t fantasy baseball and all of this let’s trade x for y isn’t valid. Teams aren’t just going to give up players who will help us.
TW is sending a signal and the message is clear. There’s no magic 8 ball out there that can be rolled up and turn (in last season’s case) Mondesi and Jordan’s into the great player they were in seasons past.
And, what makes you guys think that a young player (Francouer, McCann et. al.) would be willing to stay three, four years from now - if the Braves have steadily declined - the Yankees, Red Sox or anybody else who’s willing to pay the money, would be ready to stay with the Braves if the Braves don’t have committed management.??
TW thinks the Braves are more of a TV show than team. Get used to it. It says something “within baseball” that the Braves seem willing to let guys who they would have re - signed years ago, to walk now.
TW is mismanaged, look to Carl Icahn’s letter to the stockholders. The Braves could turn into the what the Hawks became. JS and BC can’t work forever.
By Biff Pocoroba
November 7, 2005 05:55 PM | Link to this
Furcal is sure not worth a longterm, big $$ contract. God bless him, and God bless the Cubbies and Mets as they continue to buy other people’s talent when it’s overpriced.
There’s probably a lot the Braves COULD do, but I don’t think they’ll pay big money. Lugo seems interesting. If you can steal bases, which he HAS, you probably can again. 275 is not a disaster in a leadoff man if he can take a walk, move a runner.
Failing that, or some other option, I don’t think “leadoff” is a big role with the Braves and they’ll play whichever youngster is solid up the middle and can hit a little.
By Chop Chop
November 7, 2005 06:02 PM | Link to this
Well, if Furcal leaves, I guess we can open the liquor cabinet again.
Seriously though, losing Furcal is a bad blow for the Braves’ defense. Although Furcal could hit for some power and steal lots of bases, his defense is what made him so valuable this year. Betemit is nowhere near the caliber of Furcal defensively and will have to hit lower in the batting order. Julio Lugo is a decent player and would be cheap, but, like Betemit, he isn’t close to being the defensive standout Furcal was last season. He can’t hit leadoff either, which means that the Braves will have to bring in someone to hit in that spot. They have no options on that team for the leadoff spot. No, Bobby! Don’t make Kelly Johnson the starter in left field and hit him leadoff! Please, for the love of God, don’t do it! As DOB stated, the Braves have plenty of ammo to go out and get what they need. The question is whether they’ll be as lucky as they have been in the past with picking the right prospects to trade for that help.
By Bobby H
November 7, 2005 06:12 PM | Link to this
I realize if Jeff F.had finished better at the end of the season he would of won the rookie award.He still had a higher batting average and there is no comparison when it comes to defense.He has as good of an arm as anyone in baseball. They stopped running when the league found that out.My vote had I had one would of gone to Jeff but I admit I’m biased.
By 3Pitch
November 7, 2005 06:29 PM | Link to this
I just may stop going to Braves games next year in a protest of this idiocy. I am really sick of the TW cost cutting. Furcal is the best SS in the history of the team, and they allow him to walk as soon as he is eligible.
JS created this problem when he signed Tim Hudson. It just does not leave enough in the budget for a Furcal. Plus, Hudson’s very average season makes this even tougher to swallow. It is time for Deyton Moore to become GM of the Braves, and send JS to retirement.
By Biff Pocoroba
November 7, 2005 06:36 PM | Link to this
Guys, quit complainging about TW! The Braves payroll is a footnote on the TW annual reports, probably not even discussed by real human beings. Until we get together and put a few hundred mil together to buy the team, it’s the reality.
A little acknowledgement is also in order, that the Braves have generally refused to sign huge longterm deals, but have stayed compeitive. I’m not saying “golly gee, all is well”, but let’s not give up on the Braves mgmt team just yet.
By Edgar Loyd
November 7, 2005 06:37 PM | Link to this
I would let Furcal go and try a trade for Ichiro. It may take Estrada, Marte and a young pitcher.
Ichiro,lf Giles,2b Chipper,3b Andruw,cf Francoeur,rf McCann,c LaRoche,1b Betemit,ss
By IL-logical
November 7, 2005 06:46 PM | Link to this
People,this just in: John Schuerholz is out next year, as well as Bobby,and could care less about anything related to The Time Warner. But here is the real point;the Braves ,under JS,have not won a world championship with a big budget(96) and with a “little” budget(03,04 and 05). It ain’t the budget that is the problem.
By Matt
November 7, 2005 06:47 PM | Link to this
I really don’t think Betemit is a bad option as starting shortstop. He provided some clutch hitting throughout the season, and I remember seeing him make plays consistently throughout the season - whether at shortstop or at third - that made me think twice about keeping Furcal. I think this is going to be one of the most interesting offseasons for the Braves yet. They will require some bullpen help, possibly a solid backup first basemen if Franco goes elsewhere, and maybe a fifth starter. Whichever way the Braves go, I’m not expecting any big free-agent deals like Figgins or Garciaparra coming to the Braves, but maybe a few rookie trades, like Kelly Johnson and/or Pete Orr for a good, solid reliever. I just hope Schuerholz doesn’t trade away the young outfielders and depend on Jordan again; not to badmouth Jordan, I just don’t think he’ll be able to keep up with the young guys.
By TDawg
November 7, 2005 06:47 PM | Link to this
Someone above proposed an interesting idea….”what about Nomar?” Honestly I never thought of that. Former Tech guy…probably cheap…could hold the fort until the young guys are ready…and there is the possibility of a “lights-out” kinda year….interesting…(I think I’ll stop using elipsis dots now…)
By Biff
November 7, 2005 06:47 PM | Link to this
Ichiro? That would be fun!
Someone asked if I’m the real Biff P.
I wish! So I’m changing my handle to just Biff, in honor of the real thing, but to avoid further confusion.
By Biff
November 7, 2005 06:50 PM | Link to this
TDawg, I brought that up in another blog. If the cubbies sign Furkie, no need for Nomah. I don’t know his health status, or his salary demands. But a damn fine ballplayer if he’s healthy, that I’d take on my team any time.
By Tomahawkin
November 7, 2005 07:07 PM | Link to this
Ichiro, Forget about it, You guys are living fantasies… I really don’t like the idea of Lugo neither, cuz I remember he used to get homer happy when he played at that bandbox called Minute Maid Park… In other words I think he is just about the same hitter as Furcal was when he got on a roll of hitting homeruns. I’d rather see who puts the ball in play and worries about on-base percentage like Juan Pierre, ( even though I would not recommend him because his defense and his arm is just as bad if not worse than Jonny Damons ) and while were at it I like to see a trade for someone like Fernando Vina
By Carroll
November 7, 2005 07:23 PM | Link to this
Alls I know is that everyone on here back before the allstar break was clammering for fookie to be traded because WB was playing so well in every way…defensivily, offensively, etc (even if they now try to deny it). Now all of a sudden, WB “isn’t an every day player”???!! Puh-leeze. He’ll be just fine.
Ultimatley, it wouldn’t matter if we put Derek Jeter at SS, or A-Fraud, or the wizard in his hay-day….WE NEED PITCHING!! Without it, everything else is moot!! WB makes for an adequate replacement and gives us the most financial flexibility to be able to go out and get some more pitching.
By Tomahawkin
November 7, 2005 07:33 PM | Link to this
When Wilson came up in 01 a lot of people at the time thought that he would be Fookie’s predecessor. He really didn’t not impress me this year like Fookie did in the spring Training 2000, so I’m not sure if Wilson is the answer. Does anyone know how fast he is, I’ll tolerate his decline in defense if he hits .285 10-65 with 20+SB’s, and more than anyting a higher On-Base percentage than Fookie
By Biff
November 7, 2005 07:35 PM | Link to this
T’hawkin: is Vina still in the game? Or was that just an example? Carroll, agreed we shouldn’t spend big bucks for a SS when we need a bullpen. Someone’s got to play it, though. I’m okay with Betemit/Orr. guess you are too?
By Tomahawkin
November 7, 2005 07:37 PM | Link to this
By the way, I know its almost close to impossible but I liked that Bobby Jenks Cat for the Sox, If he can develop a good change-up, He’s going to be Sick 4 years to come Also, was I the only one who Missed Burger King, Ivan Cruz, The Bong, SpooneyBarger, and Alfonseca…
And I wouldn’t be suprised to see Burger King, or Alfonseca Back, I’d welcome anyone but Albie Lopez, or Steve Karsay
By Tomahawkin
November 7, 2005 07:44 PM | Link to this
Vina was wit the tigers, signed a good contract wit them, and I think he missed agoo chunk of this year because of injury. For the record I just used him as an example of a scrappy ( I used to dread seeing him when he was wit the Cardinals because he was such a tough out) prototypical leadoff hitter, one who gets on base by any means necessary (like getting hit by pitches)..by the way I not downin Furkey, but how many pitches you ever see him lean into?
By Gary
November 7, 2005 07:51 PM | Link to this
I would not count out the Braves getting Furcal back. JS says that it is not in his hands. That means he and the Braves have made an offer to Furcal. Raffy is going to see the open market for him and then make a decision. If the Braves need money, look for Chipper, the guy you all bash, to defer his salary to resign Furcal. He will make that call if it looks like the Braves are about to lose Furcal. As for pitching. The Braves have the starting rotation set. However that bullpen needs a makeover of young guys: Devine, Boyer, and McBride and veterans. They have the talent to trade for a closer and a setup man. Don’t look for Estrada or Betemit back. Those guys are trade bait. As is Sosa and LaRoche. The Braves will find the 9 million/year to give to Furcal, more likely from Chipper defering money.
By Edgar Loyd
November 7, 2005 08:02 PM | Link to this
Ichiro? you think I’m kidding myself? I was kidding myself last year when I wanted Tim Hudson too. The Mariners are entertaining offers for Ichiro. He wants out. You never know if you don’t try.
By Mr.Brave
November 7, 2005 08:11 PM | Link to this
Furcal is gone. WB will be playing short. The money saved is going to first base. We’re gonna have a hell of a team.
By Tomahawkin
November 7, 2005 08:24 PM | Link to this
Edgar where did You hear that Ichiro wants out from? With his entourage of fans from the far east, the only team I see him going to on the east coast is New York or Boston
By Biff
November 7, 2005 08:29 PM | Link to this
Kiss Raffy goodbye with blessing. Put WB at short; sign Tom Gordon to shore up MR and give Farnsworth a shot at closer. If it doesn’t work out by July, you’ve got tons of talent to trade.
By Stuart
November 7, 2005 08:29 PM | Link to this
Without Furcal, I think Betemit could fit in at short just fine. This would cause a problem being without a true leadoff hitter, but Betemit played his best when he was playing on a consisent basis. And as a starter, of course, he will be. But by not spending money on another shortstop that will free up some of the salary, at least, to spend on pitching. As crazy as it sounds, with all the young prospects the Braves have, I believe Zito is in the last year of his contract in Oakland, and I don’t know if he’ll re-sign with them (i.e. Oakland could be interested in dealing him). So if we could end up with two of the “big three” from the west coast, that wouldn’t be too shabby. Now this can and should only be done if and when: first, we get that bullpin taken care of (a bullpen half as good as the 2002 season would be great), and second, that the Braves could be sure they’d have enough money to re-sign Zito for the future (without committing too much $ like they did to Chipper…but if Time Warner would just roll up their sleeves a little bit, this wouldn’t be a problem). But with Smoltz, Hudson, and Zito, that’s definately a big three that could match up to Houston’s (assuming Clemens stays) or any team’s for that matter. Plus, if we still have a completely healthy and effective Hampton back the year after next, that would prove for an interesting starting four (if Smoltz still has another couple of years in him without elbow problems and assuming that it’s still possible given the certain salary “cap” of around 80 million). It would be really tough to lose Furcal, but if great pitching is the end result of that, then it’s a sacrifice I think the Braves should make.
By BB FAN
November 7, 2005 08:37 PM | Link to this
Ichiro is a great player, but I doubt the Mariners are serious about trading him.
Carroll, I’m really liking the idea of putting WB at SS and let him play everyday. He should be a .290 Avg, 10-15 HR, 50-65 RBI guy over a full season. He does not appear to have a lot of speed but, he did play very good defense at both SS and 3B. Then Marte could make the team as a backup to CJ at 3B and Laroche at 1B. I just don’t want the Braves to give up on him yet.
The Braves should seriously consider going after Brian Giles. I really think he would take a discount (a 2 year $16 million deal might do it) to play with his little brother. He is an OBP machine. He could hit leadoff. I know he only stole 13 bases last year, but he has doubles power and gets on base. Giles would be a much better leadoff hitter than Furcal. Langerhans could then be the 4th OF.
The Braves could trade K Johnson and Estrada for some bullpen help. The yshould also go after a few guys like Gordon, BJ Ryan and Ray King. I think there are a lot of good bullpen guys available.
I don’t think the Braves would trade Sosa, Betemit or LaRoche. The yare part of the future. It would not surprise me though if they traded Horatio Ramirez or John Thomson.
By Tomahawkin
November 7, 2005 08:40 PM | Link to this
Dude, Do you remember the Giles leadoff experiment in the second half on 2001, and the first half of 2002? It was a fiasco, Giles is best at number two, and he has too long of a swing to hit leadoff
By glennbo
November 7, 2005 08:42 PM | Link to this
Let Furcal go. His rookie season was his best when he had a .394 on base percentage and 73 walks. He never got anywhere close to that in those categories again. Offer arbitration and get compensation. Let someone else overpay.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 7, 2005 08:55 PM | Link to this
LeTwan and Mama have been talking about the leadoff position and Mama has a good idea. Mama said bat Chipper first. His OBP is 60 points higher than Furcal.
By Tomahawkin
November 7, 2005 08:56 PM | Link to this
Furcal was Dangerous as a baserunner when he first came up in 2000, I loved his madd crazy agressiveness he showed as a rookie, I think either Bobby made him lose that agressivenes as he matured or he just lost the fire on the basepaths that he used to possess, also at the same time his Homer totals went up and his plate discipline declined… I’d hate to see him go, but what if he does get a good contract, and decide to pull off a half-a-s-s year like a couple of big ticket free agents from a year ago who blew off their first year after getting their huge contracts (Are You Listening Carlos Beltran, Adrian Beltre)
By Leo
November 7, 2005 09:15 PM | Link to this
SpooneyBarger is selling cars in Ark…
By david
November 7, 2005 09:22 PM | Link to this
Peter has it right! TW milks this team. Scott Boras has said that the Braves Media contracts are grossly underpriced to make the Braves look poor and more profit for the media business. Don’t forget that TW is run by a cabal in NY and you can be sure that they are NOT Braves fans. EVEN THE ROYALS, FOR GODS SAKE, ARE IN THE FURCAL HUNT. Whats wrong with the Braves?! We need new ownership more than anything! Cox and JS can’t be expected to wrought miracles every yr. Maybe it is time for a boycott, that’s the only leverage the average fan has! As for Furcal, this loss will do far more damage than any of the others because shortstops who are excellent defenders and can hit, steal bases, and lead off are very, very, rare commodities. The proof is that in the entire Major leagues there are only 1 or 2 players that could even begin to replace him. (One is Rollins and the Phillies wisely just locked him up for 5 yrs. this season-Ican’t even think of any others-and please not Jeter-he’s not in Furcal’s class on defense!)
By Derrill
November 7, 2005 09:22 PM | Link to this
I feel that the braves need to let f******* go and work on their bullpen and a good bat the help the jones boys out. Also I feel that they need to trade Johnny Estrada and fill a void that they have. Brian McCann is a good player and he can get the job done. I have faith in Cox and Schuerholz to get the job done. Last Bobby Cox is the best manager and it will be very hard to replace him so appreciate him while we have him!
By Biff
November 7, 2005 09:22 PM | Link to this
This leadoff thing is a big question. Does it matter? Do we go sign someone like Clayton, or Lugo? I like the Braves roster without them, but there’s no leadoff hitter there. Does it matter?
By Carroll
November 7, 2005 09:35 PM | Link to this
Bill: nah….didn’t matter in 2001 when gily led off and we got to the nlcs; didn’t matter in 99 when we got to the WS w/o a true leadoff man….same goes for 98,96,95 and 91. A good leadoff man would be nice (not that fooky ever really was the ideal leadoff man)…and if we could get a juan pierre that would be awesome….but that’s NOT the main concern…PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING!!!
By joe
November 7, 2005 09:35 PM | Link to this
This may sound crazy, but one guy the braves should consider in Todd Greene of the Rockies. He is a Georgia boy (Evans Co.) and lives in Alpharetta in the off-season. I am not sure if he is still under contract with the Col. or not but he sure plays Atlanta tough. The braves seem to lean toward hometown players and T. Greene would be a great addition. He beat the Braves twice this year single-handidly and would play tremendous baseball for the hometown team. Also, I must mention I played with Todd at Georgia Southern Unniversity and you should see his stats there!
By Biff
November 7, 2005 09:39 PM | Link to this
I’ll say it just once, and I’m sure that will be enough to get everyone angry… Trade McCann if you mCan, keep Estrada for 2 or 3 more years, then bring up Pena or McSalt’n’Peppa (whatever his name is). McCann has more value on the market than Estrada. Agree with Carroll…pitching, pitching and more pitching.
By joe
November 7, 2005 09:45 PM | Link to this
Also, i want to say that Furcal should look at some of his ex-teamates and think about his future. A lot of them have moved on for big money and stunk up the joint. I am not saying money is not important but look at J.D.Drew, Jarod Wright, Javy, etc. thay have all had flashes but not the consistency they had here. They have all been injury prone and not there true selves night in and night out. There is something to be said about playing for Atlanta and Bobby Cox there that brings about normalcy and consistency. Maybe all that money can help ease the pain of not playing to your potential, but going to the playoffs 14 yrs. in a row shows something.
By Carroll
November 7, 2005 09:53 PM | Link to this
And Joe, don’t forget one of the few times JS and the Braves actually caved and overpaid to keep one of our players….remeber 94-95 when Jeff Blauser was b*** and moaning about an extra couple mill per year? And what did we get out of that? Did he ever hit over .250 again?! I know he didn’t even play a part in the WS run in 95. This is what happens when you reward a guy for sporadic performace (see also, Carlos Beltran, JD Drew, Adriane Beltre, etc)
By Jeff
November 7, 2005 10:00 PM | Link to this
“When John Schuerholz said this morning that he had no scheduled meeting with agent Paul Kinzer, that it would happen when it happen,..”
Hey, nice grammar Dave. Finish high school did ya?
By Carroll
November 7, 2005 10:10 PM | Link to this
I’m sure Ms. Anthony would tell ya it’s not nice to nit-pick (or is that something Booger would say?)
By Retch
November 7, 2005 10:25 PM | Link to this
Braves would be crazy to go after Lugo. Betemit is already a better player. Betemit will hit .300 with at least 15 HR.
By Biff
November 7, 2005 10:25 PM | Link to this
Estrada is a better catcher than McCann. And we have 2 waiting in the wings.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 7, 2005 10:26 PM | Link to this
LeTwan read very carefully what DOB had to say, and LeTwan thinks if Bobby ever needs an agent he should pick Boras. Bobby is a plug and play manager. He’ll plug someone in at leadoff. Usually the one he plugs in does okay, until the playoffs. I think Mama was pointing out that the Braves don’t have a natural leadoff batter - and the one they had batting leadoff wasn’t doing all that great at it. No matter who hits first, if the 2hitter won’t/can’t advance him and the 3hitter is always swinging for the fence it’ll take a double or HR to score. That’s Bobby ball. It has worked for 14 regular seasons - and once, in 1995 it worked just right.
By Biff
November 7, 2005 10:47 PM | Link to this
Bobby Ball? Is that really fair?
By Pocahorner
November 7, 2005 11:17 PM | Link to this
Ichiro. Jeter. Zito. Mr. Mia Hamm. Is this a roto league lineup or a list someone’s sending Santa this year?
If Ted still wrote the checks, I’d imagine we’d have more than one WS trophy over the last 14 years. Can anyone spell WGN? They’re happier than Kirstie Alley in a Krispie Kreme to keep the Cubbies loveable losers. TW is just doing the same except the Braves go further in sweeps (no pun intended.) It’s going to take a lot of cha-ching to pry the Braves from TW’s grubby little programming fingers.
Todd Greene? Like we need another catcher on the roster.
Carroll is right. Pitching (and pitching of the power variety) is what we need. As much as I disliked the Bravos picking up Thomson’s option, I understand that there aren’t many pitchers out there who can throw in the 90s that you can pay only $4M. Maybe JS can find another Sosa this winter.
I wouldn’t panic about Fooky and a leadoff hitter. It seems some rookie makes an impression on Bobby during Spring Training. I say trust the farm. The Braves have brought up a few winners from there.
Mr. Wilson will do fine as an everyday SS. Good glove. Decent stick. Leadoff? Nah. But who could have predicted at the beginning of the season that Juan Uribe would have been an important part of the Chi-Sox WS championship. Let’s give him a chance. If he doesn’t work out, the 2006 trading deadline is what, 8-9 months away?
By kevin
November 7, 2005 11:35 PM | Link to this
I don’t understand WHY people think that Wilson Betemit is going to be a great replacement for Furcal.
PEOPLE, Wilson Betemit is NOT a leadoff hitter! Nor does he have the speed or the arm that Furcal has. So let’s stop saying that Wilson Betemit is our answer to the possible void in SS just because he had a good year filling in for Chipper at third.
By Sherlon
November 7, 2005 11:39 PM | Link to this
Let’s don’t concentrate SOooooo much on a lead off hitter, we need Pitching, Pitching and more Pitching so we can keep the opposing team’s leadoff hitter off base. How about it??? We’ll get some men on base, but we got to keep the other team’s men off base. PITCHING, for now, is what’s important and what has hurt us in the playoffs.
By dannycardwell
November 8, 2005 12:08 AM | Link to this
furcal will be missed. he has a canon for an arm. he could have been the best leadoff hitter in baseball, if he had not been selfish, hardheaded, and stupid by swinging for the fence all the time. for 9+ million let him go. betemet will make less than 500,000 and hit 280+ 10-15 homers. orr gets more playing time, which is good. make no changes on in field or out field. trade marte and kelly johnson before bobby ruins langerhans for pitching. trade estrada and pena for 1-2 good middle relief pitchers, buddy ryan please. you can bet we will lose 1 young outfielder and 2 good younger pitchers to trades. we have the greatest manager in the game and the most overrated gm in the game. lets hope he doesnt trade away the future again on another bandaid.
By Curveball
November 8, 2005 12:52 AM | Link to this
No “biff”…Bobby Ball is not fair…it’s BoogieBall baby!…
By Mark
November 8, 2005 01:08 AM | Link to this
We Didn’t win any World Series with Furcal…so why should the Braves throw out 10 million a year.Wilson Betemite can play a good short stop and seems to have a good bat. What We need is relief pitching and another high quality starter.JS and Bobby Cox they both know this.I guess the biggest concern losing Furcal is who will bat leadoff.
By Peter
November 8, 2005 01:23 AM | Link to this
What makes anyone think that:
1)Nomar would be a good pickup? Wasn’t anyone paying attention when Theo Epstein said when he traded Nomar? “We weren’t going to win the WS with him”
2)Two words on Johnny Estrada - Ray Fosse. Fosse was an All-Star catcher with the Indians and in the All-Star game Pete Rose ran over him (when he didn’t have to) and Fosse was NEVER the same. Who’s going to take Estrada BEFORE he proves that he can be as productive after the collision with Erstad as he was before it occured?
3)Is McCann going to be able to hit LH’s on a regular basis?
4)Will Francoeur display discipline at the plate?
5)When TW purchased Ted’s businesses WHY did they want the Braves?? Easy answer, they needed programming for not only TBS but even better for Turner South. In addition there’s one hell of a fight going on among the shareholders. It’s easier to sell one of the “non-core” assets if it’s got a comparitively low payroll. If the Braves are truly, truly losing money then why are so many games STILL on TBS?
Throwing money around doesn’t win you a pennant if you have a dumba$$ running the club. If you have a future HOF guy in the GM’s and Managers seat then it’s less risky, isn’t it?
It’s truly the Hampton contract that has hamstrung the Braves. Good teams are stong up the middle. If the Braves can “easily” replace Furcal then why are the players saying what they say? Think that they don’t know as much as all of us???
In reality there’s no true number one starter on the team. Smoltz is a split finger away from another injury and his time has really passed.
While luck is the residue of design the fact is that the Braves got lucky with the young players last year. Counting upon it as corporate policy is tilting at windmills.
By bravefan
November 8, 2005 01:31 AM | Link to this
Wilson Betemit MAY have a good offensive season but he will be a below avg SS.Also just say no to Brian Giles-he’s terribly overrated.
By MarkyD
November 8, 2005 01:36 AM | Link to this
Carroll is right , pitching is at a premium. Atlanta is now a small market team like Oakland and furcal is history. Betemit can play short , francoeur can bat leadoff. I’m not a BC basher but I do seem to remember he is the GM that let barry Bonds get away NOT ONCE BUT TWICE ! and dont forget about him not listening to his scouts and drafting tyler houston over Frank thomas , BC has cost this organization more WS championships than he can ever hope to win , enough said. Let the kids play , trade the overpriced vets for more talent and rely on the pitching and defense to get it done because thats the formula the Braves have been relying on over the past 15 years. GO BRAVOS in 2006.
By DJ
November 8, 2005 04:25 AM | Link to this
I can’t figure out why people actually think the Braves can compete with Wilson Betemit starting. Sure he did a good job filling in but thats all he is. He doesn’t have half the speed of Furcal and with Betemit starting, the need for a lead off man will arise as there is no way he would be leading off. If he is our shortstop, the Braves are in big trouble. Remember Mark Derosa when he went from super bench man to starting dud? The same will hold true for Betemit. Its time the Braves make some noise and pick up some big names instead of watching everyone in the East be big spenders. The Braves recent “winning with what we got” attitude is only going to last for so long and with the Mets possibly getting Furcal, Wagner and Manny, its too much to ask the kids to do it again. The Braves need help and bad!!!!!!!!!
By BB FAN
November 8, 2005 07:25 AM | Link to this
Tomahawkin, I said Brian Giles (not Marcus) could lead off if the Braves could sign him. He has a career .413 OBP compared to Furcal’s .348 OBP. Brian Giles is not overrated if he takes less money to play wit hhis brother, Marcus. Brian Giles is not the power hitter he once was, but in the leadoff spot, he only needs doubles power and the ability to get on base.
For all of the bloggers that think Wilson Betemit can’t play everyday…he did that when CJ was out and hit even better. He is an everyday player. He won’t steal many bases, but he plays very good defense for a rookie. He has improved a lot over the last few years. He won’t get to as many grounders as Furcal did, but who can? And who’s to say Furcal didn’t just save his best defense for his free agent year. Furcal could go back to the SS who airmailed every other throw to first base to show off his arm.
No way should the Braves trade McCann. Estrada is the one that needs to go because he is not as good as McCann and he makes more money. Estrada and K Johnson can bring in some quality relief pitching.
Or with the money the Braves save by letting Furcal go, they could sign a few of the great relief picthing available as free agents.
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this
Giving Betemit a chance to play everyday isn’t like replacing Fooky with Chico Escuela. Betemit has shown he can hit for a decent average during his limited playing time this year. Fooky has a career OBP of .348 and BA of .284. Betemit - in 1+ seasons with the Braves - .389 OBP, .280 BA. Yes, he doesn’t have Fooky’s range, but for everyone who thinks the move is a downgrade in defense, remember even though Furcal had only 15 errors this year, he posted 27, 31 & 24 errors the previous 3 years. Betemit isn’t replacing a Gold Glove, Hall of Fame SS, he’s stepping in for a good MLB SS. The move won’t be a downgrade.
And the guy who suggested Frenchy as our leadoff hitter - that’s a interesting thought. If TP can teach him some plate discipline and how to take a walk, he could be a decent one-hole hitter. But the idea of getting a prototypical lead-off hitter is overrated. Sure, it’s nice to have one, but to trade away top prospects for what amounts to slap hitter with speed is a little insane. As someone once said, the lead-off hitter only truly leads off in the first inning.
By Tdawg
November 8, 2005 09:11 AM | Link to this
Just for the record, Wilson B has always been a more highly regarded prospect than Furcal ever was (fact). We have plenty of kids in the farm that will eventually do just fine. We can go back to traditional thinking and simply have a great defensive shortshop and not expect the world offensively. We can then use the money saved to take care of other positions (where higher productivity IS expected). Plus, great defense makes your pitchers look better too.
You may think that Hampton’s contract is killing us now, but he was a steal the first 3 years (free the 1st two years because the Rockie’s and Mets were eating his salary) - when you average it out, we will not be paying him much overall.
Microsoft is in talks with Time Warner attempting to acquire AOL. This may alleviate the payroll constraints if they can spin AOL off (the only true black-hole financially in the ownership group).
By Tom
November 8, 2005 09:25 AM | Link to this
I have been following the Braves news this year and have missed any talk about an insurance settlement covering a portion of Hampton’s salary for next year. Is that the case or am I just in dreamland. If the Braves could cash a few million out of Hampton then there shouldn’t be any trouble signing Furcal or any midlevel free agent.
By TDawg
November 8, 2005 09:25 AM | Link to this
September article
By MEB
November 8, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this
Two things… we need relief pitching and we need Furcal. If the Braves cannot accomplish both of these then please give us some relief pitching. I cannot take another year like last year.
By R. J.-Class of 1958
November 8, 2005 09:31 AM | Link to this
I know replacing a good pitching coach, like the Braves have had in the past several years will be very hard, but if a player can be a coach also I hope John Smotz will not be overlooked. He has stuck by the Braves through good and hard times, and no matter how good the other pitchers have been he has always been the best as a starter and as a reliefer. He knows how to pitch and has proven it. It would be a very good Braves’ team, if there were 10 young pitchers on the team trained by him.
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this
Bravefan and Kevin: why do you guys think WB is not good defensively??!! He played SUPER defense this past year! And I think his arm is every bit as good as furcal, and possibly a little better simply because he has such a cool, controlled, accurate arm. It doesn’t LOOK like he’s got a strong arm because he has such a soft, fluid, efortless motion, whereas fooky throws with every fiber of his being. WB is not quite as fast as Fooky (who is?!) but he is certainly no laroache! And Fookie was not that good of a leadoff man anyway….I mean, what good is speed if you’re never on base because you’re trying to hit homeruns?!
John Thomson is an absolute gem at $4mill per year. He is the ideal 3-4 starter who can bring some heat. He’s that power-type pitcher that pays big dividends in October (if he can just get a chance to pitch once we get there!!)
By Don
November 8, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this
Why the big deal over stolen bases? Furcal never consistantly put pressure on an opposing pitcher or defense by stealing bases. His forte’ was catching the ball and running the bases. WB can do that at a much cheaper price. What’s wrong with trading Giles? He’s got a long loopy swing that doesn’t work during playoff time and he’s a load financially for a #2 hitter. Trade him for a young lead-off #2 man, spend the money saved a both positions on the bullpen & first base.
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this
BB: I’m so glad all you guys are starting to come around and see my points about Fooky. I’ve been saying the same things since the season ended. Many people thought I was crazy for wanting to see Fooky gone/….they thought, I guess, that I was blaming the playoffs on him, so that’s why I wanted him gone. But you guys are finally starting to see reality.
Why overpay because of one good half season…do we have such a short memory that we can’t even remember fooky’s first half of this season….let alone all his previous seasons where every time a ball was hit near him, you cringed!! Anyone remember screaming at your tv set when he flailed away every atbat trying to hit a homer?! Anyone remember Jeff Blauser after we overpaid to keep him in the 94 offseason?!
By Peter
November 8, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this
Hampton’s insurance policy (this is just what I was told) will pay only $6.75 and won’t be paid until the middle of the season. Of course he could retire and save us all of it, yeah right.
In addition the Microsoft issue with AOL is not a proposed buy out. It’s really targeting GOOGLE because Microsoft is prepared to challenge Google everywhere on the search engine issue. AOL has a year to year contract with Google and that’s the target.
AOL is also in talks with Yahoo. Did you guys notice the Marc Cuban story on the Pirates. Doesn’t it make you wonder about the REAL money in baseball. If the Pirates are losing money why wouldn’t they want to sell?
While pitching is a need we must admit that the offense has been spotty the last two seasons. At SS I don’t think that a lot of Braves fans appreciate his [Furcal] defense. He was robbed of a Gold Glove this season.
As I wrote last season I’m not adverse to losing players but I’m adverse to just letting them walk without compensation. The whole Greg Maddux arbitration fiasco is still costing the Braves.
We’re losing Type A free agents with nothing coming back in return. The penny pinching will have an effect up and down the organization.
Not having a “real” owner that the fans feel is personally invested in this regional franchise hurts the team certainly at the gate and maybe soon on the field.
By Fabrizio Di Muro
November 8, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this
It’s going to take 5 years, $53M to re-sign Furcal, and I doubt the Braves will do it. It’s going to be a huge loss, he’ll be missed. As Peter said, he should have won a gold glove this year.
Wilson Betemit will be an adequate replacement, but he is neither as good offensively or defensively or as good on the basepaths as Furcal.
Carroll - I never advocated trading Furcal because he wasn’t playing well, like so many other people did. I only advocated trading him because I didn’t think the Braves would re-sign him, and they ought to try to get something for him.
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this
Fab: you’re right…a lot of people used that reasoning….but they were comfortable advocating trading fooky BECAUSE WB was playing so well. But NOW, all of a sudden, WB isn’t good enough??!! I think he’ll be a little better than adequate…prolly good to pretty decent…not great….but there aren’t too many great SS out there anyway right now. WB would put us at least right in the middle of the pack, and possibly higher in terms of the SS position.
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this
Plus, you shouldn’t compare fooky to WB straight up. Think of it this way….you can have fooky or you can have the package of WB AND BJ Ryan/Todd Jones AND Juan Pierre (just as an examle)! WOuld you rather have Fooky or the package of those three? To me it’s a no brainer.
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this
Tom: I heard figures about Hampton’s insurance money ranging from $6-7M (DOB posted this in an earlier blog) to 2/3 of his remaining salary (some blog on BravesBeat.com so take that with a grain of salt).
By Rod
November 8, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this
It wouldn’t shock me one bit if Furcal was back at SS for us next year. I honestly look for Thompson or Sosa to be traded. There was plenty of interest in both last year, and I believe the Braves could get some much needed bullpen help in return. We talk about needing more offense, but we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs with sheff, vinny, and Lopez. Face it, the Braves are a pitching and defense only team. They are expected to win with 3 runs. There are some pitchers available worth taking a look at. Wagner (probably too expensive) and Ryan to name a few. I also look for Farnsworth to be back. Other than game 4 in the NLDS he pitched really well. Whatever happens, JS has always given us a playoff team, and I have no reason to doubt he’ll do it again.
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this
Furcal? Gold Glove? After only one good defensive season? Yeah, Vizquel probably won it because of the 11 previous GG (although he didn’t hurt his chances by committing only 8 errors this year - lower than all reg. starting SS), but are you saying Furcal was better than Rollins, Reyes or Jack Wilson?
By Larry O
November 8, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this
I think we should go ahead and resign Furcal and then look to the farm for the bullpen. Remember Jeff Readon?, Dan Kolb? Steve Karsay? Bruce Sutter? All of the formetioned were blow-ups in the bullpen. The last free agent closer that was worth the money was Aljendro Pena. Look at where we got Mark Wohlers, Mike Stanton, John Rocker,Kerry Lightenberg , etc.etc..
By Robert
November 8, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this
I think Betemit might be worth the risk. He has the tools and that is obvious. I still like Lugo. Granted he has had just one great year in the last few but under TP and Cox’s instruction he can develop into a quality leadoff hitter that can maintain his numbers from last year. I love Furcal, but I just don’t think he is worth all that money and I hope if he leaves that he signs with the Cubs because if he signs with the Mets, I guarantee in a year he will be vilified and reduced to a shell of his former self.
By brewerfaninATL
November 8, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this
It would hurt to see Furcal go, but in the long run they’ll barely even remember him. Let the Mets or Cubs overspend on him…remember, Glavine and Maddux haven’t exactly reached the holy grail with their new clubs. The Mets are a basket-case who are forever hexed by the Braves and the Cubs are absolutely zilch if Prior and Wood are hurt. Let Betemit play full-time (he’s earned it for now at least) and pick up a low-priced veteran free-agent to back him up. If Furcal really wants to play for a chance at a title, he would stay, but you know the saying, “money talks and bull@$!* walks!”
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this
Amen Larry O. All your examples were right on the money. If BC didn’t totally mess Devine’s head up completely, he definitely has the tools to be a great closer. And all of the Baby Braves (Boyer, Chuck James, Lerew, McBride) showed they had the stuff to be a closer last year. Many dominant MLB closers were developed in their teams farm system (Rivera, Gagne, Lidge for example.)
By Joe
November 8, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this
Hey Braves fans. It’s unfortunate that guys like Jeff Blauser and Javy Lopez (that is, contract year players) have spoiled the Braves appetite for signing long term deals.
It’s true that given our strong farm system and group of rookies, we have plenty of ‘trade bait,’ but it is also true that we need these young players b/c we’re not willing to spend on any big name free agents (of which there are few this year).
As for Lugo, I agree w/ those bloggers who say don’t waste your time b/c WB is just as serviceable.
As for the guys I wouldn’t mind seeing go, Brian McCann is up there. Have we all forgotten about the season Estrada had in 2004? Besides, most of us would be in a wheel chair or dead if we endured that hit by Erstad. Look for Estrada to return to form in 2006. Andy Marte is up there too, jut b/c Chipper has 3B locked for several more years, which I am more than okay with. Pick either Kelly Johnson or Ryan Langerhans. I’m fine with either of them going somewhere else.
My bottom line is that whatever starting 8 position players BC and JS throw out there will get us to another playoff birth as long as we have pitching to back it up. That worries me though. Our bullpen is terrible and I’m not convinced that Smoltz can throw 200+ innings again, but I sure hope he does.
Finally, I want to know where Juan Pierre is going to play in our outfield? And for the love of Jaysus, don’t say that we’ll trade or move Andruw.
By Robert
November 8, 2005 11:27 AM | Link to this
Devine could be the closer. I think that if he is going to be the closer then you have to stick with him so his psychi doesn’t get messed up anymore than it already is because of his being in the playoffs where he had no business being.
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this
Pierre would be our LF (b***’ and moanin’ probably). With Cabrera moving back to 3rd, the Fish would want some quality outfielders. IF we trade for Pierre, more than likely Langerhans or Johnson would be one of the players in the deal.
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 11:55 AM | Link to this
But I would hate to see any of our players go to the Fish.
By doc
November 8, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this
great to see the comments on cox. to this year we all said he couldnt work with young guys only being able to dredge up miracles from the old guys and spent pitchers. he proved us wrong this year as he moved away from the old guys quickly at rf, lf and perez at c recognizing the bodies were gone and somehow played up 18 rookies some of who didnt even go through triple a to win the division. and pinella is thought to have street value after the job he did devaluing his young players? i am sure glad bobby likes his farm and listening to the radio so much or he would be elsewhere and the braves would be in a hole.
By Robert
November 8, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this
Bobby is an excellent manager. He just needs to remember in the postseason to manage like he does in the regular season. If he does, this time next year we could be saying World Champion Atlanta Braves.
By Biff
November 8, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this
Bet we could swing a good deal for Urbina today. Wow.
I think the top priority needs to be someone like BJ Ryan or Gordon, preferably Ryan (lefty, younger). And keep Farnsworth. Braves need shutdown relief for the 8th and 9th, not just a closer. And, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see ATL make a serious run at one of those guys if Furcal leaves. That’s money better spent than on a SS who won’t have a much better bat than WB, even if a little better range. Let McBride, Devine, and the other young guys grow up a little working middle relief.
By KneeJerk
November 8, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this
Carroll, To even compare the arms of Fookie and Betemit is a joke. Fookie has the best (if not to 3) arm in BASEBALL. Someone said WB was always a hotter prospect than Fookie. WB fell off the map faster than Brad Komminsk in ‘03-‘04.
By KneeJerk
November 8, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this
Meant to say best INFIELD arm.
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this
I want Farnsy gone too. Game 4 was not just an abbhoration (sp?), rather it is sympomatic of his overall career…..a decent reliever who wets the bed when the pressure’s really on. For instance, lot’s of people blame Bartman for the cubs 03 disaster, but the fault should fall on the shoulders of 1) Farnsy for opening the flood gates and 2)Baker for putting him in that situation knowing his propensity to screw the pooch in the clutch.
By Biff
November 8, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this
Farnsworth has a great arm, the power we’re always missing, and a little pss and vinegar, which the Braves need. I think he’s worth keeping (course, I don’t know what kind of $$ that will take), and would rather see him in setup role than closer. Got a feeling he’s going to put it together and be a solid pitcher for someone. And I’m fine with baby braves at LF, RF, SS, IB, even catcher (though I’d rather see Estrada), but I don’t want a bullpen of 5 kids who don’t shave yet. Not “married” to him, if we’ll go out and get 2 strong bullpen arms.
By Russ
November 8, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this
I am just tired of this cheapskate ownership. It was a miracle the Braves played as well as they did this past year, and I know the yankees payroll didn’t help them that much, although I would add if they spent more money on pitching, and I mean good young pitching I believe they would have won the series. If you play your gonna have to pay and the lack of spending with the Braves this year with a pathetic bullpen was evident in the season ending so early. I just don’t think the Braves should let Furcal walk. Who will be next, will they let Francouer leave after he earns a good salary over the next three years? maybe they should rename the team the Atlanta Expos!
By JohnBonRocker
November 8, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this
It makes no difference who the Braves get…they’re now a low budget, discount team, a tax write off for AOL/TW, and they are sending the team into the cellar…Sourhurtz and Boogie Cox will be gone after next year anyhow…who cares?…Hell, it’s only the Braves for cryin’outloud!
By Robert
November 8, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this
I agree that they need to loosen the purse strings some. Being cheap will only get you so far. Look at the A’s and Twins. The lack of payroll resluts in lack of depth and ultimately the inability to make the necessary moves to field a WS team. Don’t think that TW could care less if the Braves ever make another WS as long as people show up for the regular season and the Braves keep winning.
By JohnBonRocker
November 8, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this
Atlanta Expos is right…or Atlanta Pathetics…and by the way, TBS won’t even show the losers anymore!
By Biff
November 8, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this
I’ve got no soft spots for TW - who would? But the numbers don’t bear out the money complaints. Braves had the 10th highest payroll in the league last year, higher than the 2 WS teams. The Mets, Phillies, Cubs, Mariners, I’m sure others, spend more than we do and get much less for it. Being smart is more important than being rich.
Just some facts… please don’t put me in the position of defending TW. I’d love to see more money spent, but it aint’ gonna happen unless the team is sold.
By JohnBonRocker
November 8, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this
It’s not the amount of money spent, it’s the moves and nonmoves made by the Braves genius general manager, and mismanagement…
By Robert
November 8, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this
Again, this team is built for the regular season but not the postseason. If Bobby (Boogie) would just manage in the playoffs like he does in the regular season, then I think we would see much different results.
By nolan
November 8, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this
First of all, Furcal is not the great payer we are making him out to be. He is an average shotstop with a great arm and good speed. The problem is that he does’nt get on base enough. He chases the first pitch way to much, and gets behind in the count to often. I like the idea of talking to Nomar. We need a verteran hitter that can get on base. Plus, he played at Georgia Tech, so it would’nt be his first time in Atlanta.
By edog
November 8, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this
I agree Joe. Does not everybody remember the 2004 year Estrada had? He is solid definsively and is pretty sound offensively as well. McCann can’t even through a guy out at second. Just because a young kid comes up and hits a couple of jacks in the playoffs doesn’t mean we should write of Johnny. Estrada will shine in 06’ even if not with the Braves!
By Robert
November 8, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this
I think Furcal is a good player but not a great player. I still say getting Nomar might be a bad move. Is Nomar still the same player he once was?
By Biff
November 8, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this
To those lamenting the (possible) loss of Furcal: If the Braves DO sign him for 9-10 mil per year, don’t even THINK about free agents next year or the year after, til the Jones and Smoltz contracts run out. The Braves pick their spots to hand out longterm contracts: AJ, CJ, Smoltz, to a lesser extent Hampton and Hudson (love or hate these guys, they are IMPACT players). Paying a good but not great SS $10 mil will hamstring this organization for years.
By Braves Fan
November 8, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this
I say either keep Furcal and touch up the bullpin or stick with Betemit and go after solid pitching, period—like Zito in Oakland (a lefty) or even bring back Kevin Millwood… he’s a free agent this year and I’m sure he wouldn’t mind coming back to ATL. But I’d much rather see $10 mil a year being spent on a player like Zito as opposed to a player like Furcal.
By Tomahawkin
November 8, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this
BB Fan, My fault, I thought you meant Marcus, But Brian at leadoff… The guy has average speed, I think If we got him , which im not very optomistic about, he should bat behind marcus, instead of leadoff, and for the people who are wanting to see Juan Pierre in our outfield… The guy is a stellar leadoff hitter, despite having an off year this year, but has anyone besides me seen him play defense? He is just as bad as Jonny Damon, if not worse… I’m on my Fernando Vina bandwagon
Go Braves!
By Tomahawkin
November 8, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this
Another thought on Brian Giles… I see him going to the Re-Tardnals, with Larry Walker retiring, he’s the perfect fit, and Those cheap turds at AOL/TW won’t let that happen
By Robert
November 8, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this
Having Zito would be nice but we need more bullpen help then starting pitching.
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this
Zito is another finesse, location, breaking ball specialist. I’d much rather have a power flamethrower.
By Doyne
November 8, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this
Go with the kids. Let Raffy and Estrada go—and good luck to them! If you change the line-up, get more power at first base. I like Adam, but you don’t go to the Series with that kind of production at first. Deal with the lead-off problem the best you can. But fix the bullpen, above all!
By Tomahawkin
November 8, 2005 03:16 PM | Link to this
Word, me too Caroll, I’d take Santana, or Colon over Zito
By Biff
November 8, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this
It’s a pivotal year for Laroche. His numbers really declined in ‘05 from his rookie year. He was in a slump for most of August and Sept., it seemed like. I like him and think it’s worth plugging him in for another year (at that price, you’ve got to), but he needs to be at .280 with 25 hr and 90 RBI next year.
By Tomahawkin
November 8, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this
The worst thing I saw all season was Bobby’s reluctance to drop LaDeuce in the order, I’m not hating on LaRoche, but his competitiveness Blows
By Robert
November 8, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this
I just don’t see the big time player in LaRoche that we were told he would be
By Biff
November 8, 2005 03:34 PM | Link to this
I think the “model” for Laroche is Mark Grace. Lefty with a good glove, modest power, but good contact. The biggest problem with Laroche is that he didn’t make that contact last year. Needs to be coached up to tighten the swing a little and put the ball in play. He’s got good natural power (more than Grace) but must put the ball in play. Remember, this was just his second year…
By OUTLAWED
November 8, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this
La Loafer is not going to reach his potantial until 2012, he is so $#@%!* slow thats how much time it would take him to reach it. He is also a loafer, does not play hard, not so great numbers either, yes he has some power he hit a grand slam in the play offs but in Aug. and Sep. he was horrible, do we rally want him in the line up? Milwood would be a good addition to the Braves if we can get him, better than Zito anyway. We don’t need 2 loafers on this team we have already stuck with Chumper..! GO BRAVES
By Robert
November 8, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this
I realize LaRoche is only in his second year, but who do you think shows the more promise? LaRoche or Francoeour who played four months.
Where is LaTwan?
By Biff
November 8, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this
Robert, I think Francouer shows much more promise than LaRoche. I don’t think Laroche is a superstar, but don’t think the Braves have luxury of signing a big time 1B this offseason. I don’t think we can have superstars at every position.
Milwood? The one thing this team does NOT need is starting pitching. Smoltz, Hudson, Sosa, Thompson and Ramirez/Davies, and you want to pay $10 mil MORE for a starting pitcher? I don’t see it.
By Robert
November 8, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this
I agree with the startng pitching, Biff. You can hava all the starting pitching in the world but it won’t mean anything without relief pitching to support it. Just ask the Yankees.
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this
Biff: Millwood could be a solid 4-5 starter. JS could use Ramirez as trade bait. Sosa and Davies would be insurance if any one of the big three get hurt - which isn’t out of the realm of posibility - or solid middle relief/#5 starters. That is if we go after Millwood.
By OUTLAWED
November 8, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this
How do you compare LaLoafer to Francoeur ? There is absolutely no comparison. I rather give 10 mil. a year to Milwood than Furcal. Chumper is already making 17 mil. a year ! Braves are stuck with what they have. GO BRAVES
By LeTwan Anthony
November 8, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this
Golly, gee, it’s LeTwan. Checking in. LeTwan says, hi Robert. Did you hear the one about Chipper’s wreck?
LeTwan still says the Braves need to be able to manufacture a run. If they get somebody with speed to lead off let’s hope they teach Marcus or somebody to advance the runner. The Braves play for the HR now and LeTwan called it “Bobby Ball” and Bicuspid or somebody said that’s not fair. Bobby wins division signs with it - but he has had the very best pitching and some of the most talented players in the NL. Should he have more than one ring? LeTwan would rather have Millwood than Zito. If this team can get a power pitcher they should do so. No team has too much pitching. Remember when they let Gryboski go claiming they had over-abundant talent in the BP?
By Biff
November 8, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this
Outlawed, I guess I agree on that; I would also rather give $10 mil to Milwood than to Furcal. Just don’t think we should give $10 mil to either of them. Split it into 2 $5 mils, and get some relief pitching.
Pocohomer, I don’t disagree. In fact Milwood could be a great #2 starter (with deference to Smoltz). He pitched lights-out for Cleveland last year even though he didn’t win a lot. I just didn’t know that starting pitching was part of the project.
Is there really talk that we’re interested in Milwood? If so, I missed it.
By OUTLAWED
November 8, 2005 04:27 PM | Link to this
We don’t need another hero in this team we have Chumper ! We also have LaLoafer and Loaftrada…!
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 04:29 PM | Link to this
One name I haven’t seen here as a potential trade possibility is Danys Baez. TB just picked up his 2006 option for $4M. The guy brings heat and he’s got 71 saves over the past two years FOR TAMPA BAY!!!! If JS is looking for a closer to help bridge the gap for Devine or some other baby brave, Baez might be an option. Even though they need some OF and C help - which we have plenty - I’m afraid TB might ask for too much.
By Biff
November 8, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this
Letwan, I asked if it was fair, and my phone rang and I didn’t finish my comment. But, it was just in defense of Bobby, so probably wouldn’t fly here anyway. It was an incomplete response, though. Sorry.
By OUTLAWED
November 8, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this
Biff you are right Millwood did pitch grat for the Cleveland. If any way we can get him back I believe we should. I do not know if there are any talks with his agent? does anybody know? GO BRAVES
By Robert
November 8, 2005 04:33 PM | Link to this
LaTwan, I have not heard the one about Chipper’s wreck but hope you will tell it. I like the idea of getting Milwood also, but just think that getting A+ starting pitching is in vain if we don’t have a bullpen that can hold a lead or a tie.
By OUTLAWED
November 8, 2005 04:33 PM | Link to this
FURCAL IS A GOOD SS NOT A GREAT ONE. ANYBODY DISAGREE? GO BRAVES!
By Robert
November 8, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this
I agree that Furcal is good not great. Anyone could have went up there and swung for the fences at almost every at bat.
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this
Biff: Millwood is just talk. I haven’t heard or read any serious rumors if the Braves are serious about acquiring Millwood. I know the Tribe are working hard to sign him before the deadline.
And here’s a thought. Sometimes great players may look like they’re loafing because the game comes easier for them than others. Maybe players like Giles or Eckstein gets dirtier and hauls a-s-s down the lines because they aren’t as fast or have the range or talent of some “superstars”. Just a thought.
By Robert
November 8, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this
There may be truth to that, but look at Derek Jeter. No one can say that Jeter is not a superstar and he is the ultimate hustler.
By OUTLAWED
November 8, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this
POCAHORNER YOU HAVE A POINT ABOUT THE GREAT PLAYERS MAY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE LOAFING, I LL TAKE IT BUT ESTRADA AND LAROACH ! COME ON THESE TWO ARE NOT EVEN PROVEN GOOD PLAYERS.. GO BRAVES.
By BB FAN
November 8, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this
Tomahawkin, Brian Giles has lost the power he once had and he has decent speed. He won’t steal 40 bases, but if he hits 40-45 doubles and steals 15 bases (he had 13 last year) with the .413 OBP he provides, he would be a lot better than Furcal.
LaRoche is not as bad as some of you think. He is a very good defensive 1st baseman and he hit 20 HRs and had 78 RBIs in 450 at bats last year. That would be 25/95 in 550 at bats. He just needs to have more consistant at bats so his batting average will stay in the .280’s or higher. That will come with experience.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 8, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this
Chipper was riding the 4-wheeler on the ranch and it turned over and caught fire and Chipper was burned to death. In fact, he was burned so badly that he could not be identified. Before MLB would pay death benefits to the widow(s) someone had to positively identify Chipper. That job fell to the Skipper and to best buddy LaRoche.
Bobby was first. He entered the morgue and viewed the body.
“Well, is that him?,” asked the coroner.
“Not sure.” Bobby answered. “Can you roll him over and let me see his a**?”
The coroner complied.
“No, that’s not Chipper.”
LaRoche was next. He looked at the charred remains and said, “I’m sorry, it’s just too hard to tell.” “Can you roll him over and let me see his a**?”
Again, the coroner complied.
“Nope, that’s definitely not Chipper,” LaRoche said.
Well, the coroner had never experienced anything like this and he had to ask the best manager in baseball what was going on. “Why did you both want to see his a**, and how do you know it’s not him?”
“Well”, said Bobby, “that can’t be Chipper because Chipper had two ah*. This guy only has one. I know because everytime Roachy and I go somewhere with Chipper people always say, “Look, there goes Chipper with them two ah*.”
By Biff
November 8, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this
Outlawed, just couldn’t disagree more about Estrada. The guy is slow, but who has a fast catcher? But to question his hustle? I see the complete opposite. And in a healthy 2004, he proved quite a bit.
By OUTLAWED
November 8, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this
LeTwan that was not very nice. GO BRAVES!
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this
Robert, you’re right. DJ worked hard to get where he’s at. Maybe some of that’s G given talent, maybe it’s all hard work. I agree he has heart and hustles EVERY play. That’s why he’s a superstar.
Outlawed, I wouldn’t lump Estrada into the loafing category. Ponch played his heart out in 04 and early this year, but wasn’t the same after the Erstad collision. Also, I would never call a catcher a loafer. Anyone who squats and wears all that equipemnt 2+ hours behind the plate, Sat. day game in August should never be called a loafer.
I’m only going to use Andrew as an example, but sometimes I feel his actions may be misunderstood as loafing. The guy gets incredible breaks on the ball in CF, but by the time the camera is focused on him it looks like he’s not hustling. In person, you can see he’s moving. Granted, I’ve seen him ground one in the infield and he’s barely out of the box before the ball reaches first, but think about it. Would he be better off busting out of the box on a routine grounder and yanks a hammy? I know there are times when the infielder bobbles the ball and he could have made it by a step, but how many times does that happen? And how many times have you seen Andrew busting his chops down the line on grounders too? I think everyone can tell the difference between players who play and the players who are there collecting paychecks.
By OUTLAWED
November 8, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this
Biff I might have missed it about Estrada. If you paid more attention in 2004 on him and I missed it you, are right I am wrong. I still would like to see McCann starting. GO BRAVES
By Robert
November 8, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this
LaTwan, that was just wrong. But, damn hilarious. You are too much.
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this
LeTwan - you ain’t right! Keep it up.
By Biff
November 8, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this
Outlawed, thanks. McCann shows promise but I’m not ready to turn things over to him full time yet unless we have to (if Estrada is not healthy). I would rather see us duplicate last year; play ‘em both, keep ‘em both fresh, and give the young guys another year to develop; and make a deal next year for one of them. But I won’t go ballistic if the Braves deal Johnny and play McCann.
By OUTLAWED
November 8, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this
Each loss has its compensation There is healing for every pain But the bird with a broken wing Never soars so high again GO BRAVES
By Robert
November 8, 2005 05:06 PM | Link to this
The funny thing about Andruw is that he never loafs in the field but he does loaf running to 1st sometimes.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 8, 2005 05:06 PM | Link to this
Mama saw LeTwan’s last post and LeTwan will not be using the computer anymore tonight. Y’all figure out who’s going to bat leadoff and how we can fix the bullpen. LeTwan
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 05:09 PM | Link to this
From mlb.com news wire
“According to the Kansas City Star, the Royals are interested in free agent shortstop Rafael Furcal.
“We are considering Kansas City, and [GM] Allard [Baird] did express interest,” Paul Kinzer, Furcal’s agent, told the Star. “I expressed that to Raffy. Allard did say they were going to step up the payroll. They have called and let me know that. Right now, we’ve been almost exclusively with the Braves. But the competition is with the Mets and Cubs.”
Furcal is going for the big bucks. Buh bye, Fooky. More power to ya!
By OUTLAWED
November 8, 2005 05:16 PM | Link to this
Biff I am going to watch Estrada closely this year(if he is still here) and I will educate myself more about the game. You sound like YOU know what you are talking about and am going to continue to support my Braves and Iwill be more open minded about the players. I still think that LaRoach is not a hustler. GO BRAVES.
By Biff
November 8, 2005 05:24 PM | Link to this
Outlawed, I’ve seen what you’ve seen with Laroche. I read that he’s ADD, or something, which might explain things, but doesn’t excuse them. I just don’t see any options at 1B, and think LaRoche is a nice gap hitter… if he can get it together.
Guess LeTwan gave us our homework. The bullpen can and will be fixed with a couple of FA signings, I think.
Leadoff is another question. I really don’t have an answer at this point. I don’t think the world would end with Betemit/Giles sharing the job, but it’s sure not ideal. Lugo looks to me like the best FA option, but I’m not sold on him either.
By Tomahawkin
November 8, 2005 06:52 PM | Link to this
There’s no way Furkey’s agent will let him land in KC, this is the same KC team that almost had a 20 game losing streak this year. that team is in rebuilding mode, I just don’t see it, and BTW when was the last time KC bought a big ticket free agent?
Juan Gonzalez is one but he signed a small deal because he was on the downside of his career
By Eric
November 8, 2005 07:29 PM | Link to this
I don,t know why in the world the braves are doing this with Furcal.He was one of the main reasons why the braves one. With him on base the cleanup hitters get better pitches to hit.Why are braves signing Thompson/to me he is not any good.Many people must not realize furcal is one of the best defensive players because he makes plays no shortstop that the braves could get or trade for can make.If the braves need to weary about something its their pitching. Keep Hudson and Smoltz and Sosa and trade the rest!!!!!!!!!!
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 07:33 PM | Link to this
Outlawed: it’s Estrogenada
LeTwan: they let Grybo go cuz he was TERRIBLE…regardless of what they may have said.
By Garcia
November 8, 2005 07:41 PM | Link to this
Furcal should go to the Cubs because it seems that the braves don’t appreciate him. I also want to see him with my other two favorite baseball players,Aramis Ramirez and Carlos Zambrano.IF the braves let Furcal go I will probably not go to any braves games or even watch them.If he goes to the Cubs I will be an ultimate Cubs fan even though I am already one.I might just move to Chicago because I love baseball.
By Garcia
November 8, 2005 07:50 PM | Link to this
I think I might go ahead and move to Chicago because going to Wrigly Field is one of my dreams.I do love the braves because I grew up watching them but they are letting go my favorite player Rafeal Furcal and If your favorite player goes to another team you would be upst too, but I’m not really upset unless he goes to the Kansas City Royals because I never see the royals on Tv.
By Joe
November 8, 2005 08:04 PM | Link to this
Good riddance, Garcia. Before you go, though, please expound on why you feel the Braves don’t appreciate Furcal.
Anyone who claims that Chipper didn’t have any heart this year either didn’t watch games or dislikes Chipper so much that you were blind to the effort he put forth. He ran out infield hits, stole bases, tagged from first on fly balls to left field, and played the best third base of his career. If you dislike him because of his vernacular, then you’re not even shallow. I wonder if Bernie Williams takes this kind of punishment in NY. Besides, most of you who make fun of the way he talks (i.e. Carroll in vents past) probably also voted for Bush.
By Biff
November 8, 2005 08:08 PM | Link to this
The Braves treated Furcal with tremendous respect through his legal troubles, and through his slumps. They may not care $38 mil about him, but the ‘personal’ shot is not valid.
By Tomahawkin
November 8, 2005 08:23 PM | Link to this
Joe I Feel ya on the W comment, I’m not downin Chipper, but he needs to show more responsibility, and emotion for a person who is making 16+ million a year, he needs to pull a ray lewis on that Blowpen especially
By LeTwan Anthony
November 8, 2005 08:23 PM | Link to this
LeTwan’s Mama read what Joe said and told LeTwan he could use the computer again. LeTwan didn’t know Chipper had vernacular but you can get stuff when you fool around like he does. Chipper makes $17 million. He probably voted for Bush, too. Think he’s registered?
By Kevin
November 8, 2005 08:36 PM | Link to this
What’s the plans for pitchers? Will the Braves be acquiring any new pitchers?
By Kevin
November 8, 2005 08:38 PM | Link to this
What are plans for pitching? Will the Braves acquire any new pitchers.
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 08:48 PM | Link to this
I’ve never made fun of how Chipper talks (that I can remember). I dislike his blatant lack of effort…and I watch just about every game. Regardless, what the hell does that have to do with W?
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 09:01 PM | Link to this
I just read that the Rockies are interested in a trade for Estrogenada. Who do they have that we may want? Closer, Brian Fuentes? Clint Barmas to hit leadoff and replace fooky?
By Pocahorner
November 8, 2005 09:35 PM | Link to this
Besides Fuentes and Barmes, there ain’t a lot on the Rockies 25 man roster worth trading for. Didn’t the Rocks just resign Fuentes? It would be sweet if we could get Barmes. He was on pace to be Rookie of the Year until he got injured. Great range at short, hits for average, and a OBP around .330. Estrada, Betemit, maybe some AA arm would be worth Barmes.
By A Lifer
November 8, 2005 09:58 PM | Link to this
i would love to see a estrada/c.b. trade….that would be a perfect trade if the braves let furcal go….but, i digress…
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 10:13 PM | Link to this
maybe barmes and Chumper could become bird huntin’ buddies. Just keep him away from bambi and we’d be okay.
By Carroll
November 8, 2005 10:15 PM | Link to this
Another FA SS: Rich Aurrillia. Thoughts?
By A Lifer
November 8, 2005 10:34 PM | Link to this
rich at ss?….carroll…your really stretching it now
By David O'Brien
November 8, 2005 10:46 PM | Link to this
Jeff, is that all you’ve got? You go through all these blog responses, all these folks offering opinions and making interesting points, and all you’ve got is to point out a grammar error in a blog? It’s a BLOG, man. Not an edited story in the paper. We’re not here to correct each other’s grammar. Nobody cares if you caught a grammar error.
I care so little that I’m not going to bother going back to fix it. It’s a blog, the purpose being to have a dialaogue, to discuss the Braves, not to try to impress with your grammar skills.
Maybe there’s an English 101 blog somewhere that you can go contribute to, if that’s what does it for you.
Meanwhile, back to what actually matters: Furcal’s agent is going to ask for a five-year deal, not four. Just found that out. Can’t see the Braves offering a five-year deal, but don’t know if Cubs will, either. So we’ll see.
One other thing: Rockies were interested in Estrada, but when they were told what Braves wanted in return for him and Reitsma, Rockies said, thanks, but no thanks.
Stay tuned. That means they’re dangling them.
By A Lifer
November 8, 2005 10:54 PM | Link to this
DOB: you’re still alive….after all this inactive time is that all you have heard?
By F-ZERO-X
November 8, 2005 10:58 PM | Link to this
Hello-Hello-Hello
Just wanted to let you all know that me and my sensual wife of 4 months are really spicing things up in our private life! I would like to go into detail, but I am concerned Mr. Obrien would not approve of such sexually explicit comments. Therefore I am asking for his permission…Dave—-Do you mind?
Well Kren is calling…round 6!
Andy Savoie
By F-Zero-X
November 8, 2005 11:00 PM | Link to this
Why did you edit Spicing? Is it naughty? That is not sexually explicit!
C’mon David!
-Savoie-
By JohnBonRocker
November 8, 2005 11:02 PM | Link to this
uM so gladd to here that it dont mater to mucth aboat ma spelin, i did granulate from the big skool in Atlantaa GA, and ma spelun is gittin biter butt i steel mess thingz up whan ima rightin…go Brives!…
By F-Zero-X
November 8, 2005 11:04 PM | Link to this
If any1 has any objections with my postings…AIM me @ NCAA1234
Savoie
By Jeffrey
November 8, 2005 11:19 PM | Link to this
I have enjoyed Furcal but he is not worth $10 million a year. I always hated it when he hit a home run because it would mess up his regular swing for the next two weeks.
On Julio Lugo, I know the Braves have had a history of staying away from problem players. Remember this from 2003?
Former Houston Astros shortstop Julio Lugo was acquitted Wednesday of charges he assaulted his wife by banging her head against their car. She testified she exaggerated the story and he didn’t mean to hurt her during an April 30 argument at Minute Maid Park. “I was very upset, confused,” Lugo’s wife Mabely said. “He wasn’t at fault.” Lugo was released by the Astros days after his arrest and now plays for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.
For 2006 go with Betemit and remember that Yunel Escobar, the Cuban import in the Braves minor leagues, is not that far away from being the SS.
By Tyler
November 9, 2005 12:06 AM | Link to this
I cant think of any curent ss that could replace Furcal defensively. But Betemit hasnt had a real chance as a starter. Has anyone considered Francoeur for the leadoff role. He is more than capable to replace Furcal in that aspect. That would also leave the Braves enough money to find a middle releiver. Give Farnsworth a full year under Bobby Cox and he’ll be one of the best closers in the game. Barring injury Chipper will produce 35 hr .320 avg and 100+ rbi and this year was just the beginning for Andruw. And next year the Braves will be 1st in NL east. Cox will find a way to win like he always does.
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2005 12:15 AM | Link to this
Lifer, I’m not permitted to just throw anything I’ve “heard” up here. It’s got to be valid, got to be from reliable sources.
You hearing a lot of rumors, seeing a lot of rumors printed elsewhere out of these meetings? Because if you are, I’d like to know where.
Meetings so far have been dead, as far as deal-making. But these meetings usually are little more than laying groundwork. And heavy stuff doesn’t start until Friday, when teams can make offers for other teams’ free agents.
Can’t please you guys, man. I’d be better off just posting and then getting back to you in a week, which is all that’s required of me in the offseason on this blog.
Some of you well-connected fans are doing a pretty good job of stirring up a bunch of rumors anyway, apparently from better sources than mine.
Haven’t heard more than one or two of the names you’ve mentioned from any of the writers out here that I’ve been talking to for the past couple of days, but hey, all that some of you want to hear is names anyway, regardless of whether there’s any accuracy or anybody from the actual teams mentioning the stuff you’re talking about.
By F-Zero-X
November 9, 2005 12:31 AM | Link to this
November 8, 2005 11:04 PM | Link to this
If any1 has any objections with my postings…AIM me @ NCAA1234
Savoie
By F-Zero-X
November 9, 2005 12:32 AM | Link to this
**If any1 has any objections with my postings…AIM me @ NCAA1234
Savoie**
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 12:50 AM | Link to this
I’m Glad you do it like that dave instead of reporting a whisper you hear and projecting it to be the next big blockbuster (I.E. Peter Gammons) and seeing nothing like that ever happen, so keep on doin what you do, Hey You do you know anything about the TBS rotation next year? Is AOL/TW going to try to play with our emotions and mess it up again?
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2005 01:09 AM | Link to this
Haven’t heard of any changes with the lineup yet, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be. I’ll check on that soon.
Here’s two things I heard today that are worth keeping in mind regarding the Braves’ need at closer: Todd Jones might be had for less than had originally been anticipated, perhaps less than $6 million for two years. Perhaps.
And Tampa Bay’s Danys Baez has been shopped and will make about $4 mill in last year of his contract. That could be a possible fit for the Braves, since it’s only a one-year commitment and since the Devil Rays are looking for starting pitching, of which the Braves have a couple of potential options the Rays would certainly be interested in.
By Boogermeister
November 9, 2005 01:25 AM | Link to this
David O’Brien, get back to us in a week if you do know something, just do the bare minimum of what your job requires…then you’ll know what it feels like to be an Atlanta Brave!
By markyd
November 9, 2005 01:46 AM | Link to this
Wilson betemit is a five tool athlete which basically means he is actually a better all around athlete than furcal, he just needs BC to give him the opportunity to play everyday. Yes francouer will make a great leadoff hitter(My idea ,I’m a genious). tino martinez is an affordable free agent and would be a huge upgrade over julio(grandpa)franco. Trade andy marte ? are you freaking crazy !!!!! Lets trade andruw jones too while we have all gone temporarily insane. Pitching , pitching , pitching , b***. I cant say it enough , we need more pitching ! Farnsworth has to be resigned , no question. bobby(booger)cox is overated. Enough said for now. Go BRAVOS in 2006 !!!
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 07:15 AM | Link to this
Mark: love your thoughts on WB and totally agree. However, I disagree about Farnsy…waste of money…..he’s a guy you KNOW you can’t depend on in the clutch. Let’s take a chance on Baez for much cheaper. Plus, I suppose Jones would be better than Reitsma or Kolb, but I just don’t want another soft tossing finesse guy.
DOB: who were the Braves asking for from the Rockies??!! Was it Barmes? Are they still negotiating? Any chance something might come through?! Even if we can’t get Barmes I’m just excited about being rid of Reeksma….I thought his contract was up this year….guess not….I’ll be praying that we can trade him then.
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 07:17 AM | Link to this
Hows about this trade: Betemit, Reeksma, Estrogenada, and HoRam OR Davies OR Devine for Barmes AND Fuentes. Thoughts?
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 07:20 AM | Link to this
DOB: just how desperate are the Astros for some 1b help with Baggy’s injuries? Think they might be interested in acquiring ole roachy? If so, what are the chances that we could pry Lidge away from them? I’ve heard the have several heir-apparents to Lidge waiting in the wings? Any chance?
If so, then we could also try and trade for Overbay from the Brew Crew to replace Ole Roachy? Or, as one guy mentioned, Tino might make a decent one-year stop-gap at 1b.
By BB FAN
November 9, 2005 07:27 AM | Link to this
Why would Francoeur make a good lead off hitter? He has to learn how to take pitches in order to draw some walks first. He is much better off batting 5th or 6th.
DOB, who did the Braves request from Colorado for Estrada and Reitsma?
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 07:28 AM | Link to this
A few other ideas. If we get rid of Estrogenada (please,please,please!), what about getting Brad Ausmus to share time w/ mccann (depending on his price)? He’s prolly the best defensive catcher in the game who could help bring along our young pitching staff and help tutor our young catchers (especially mccann who mccan’t throw anyone out!)
Also, I believe Kevin Millaaaaaaah is a FA. He would make a decent, cheap firstbaseman to either share time with ole roachie or be a starter.
And what about rich Aurillia….does he have anything left?
Sorry to post so much, but I’ve had a lot on my mind :)~
By BB FAN
November 9, 2005 07:33 AM | Link to this
Carroll, I think the Braves would be giving up too much for Fuentes and Barmes. Fuentes is 30 years old and he has only had 1 good year. And Barmes hit only .239 on the road and .332 in Colorado last year.
I would not mind Fuentes but not for much more than Estrada.
By BB FAN
November 9, 2005 07:36 AM | Link to this
Ausmas and Millar would be good veteren additions depending on their asking price.
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 07:36 AM | Link to this
Okay, last post for a while, I promise. As for starting pitching, it seems that the Crads are likely gonna let go of Matt Morris. This could be a VERY good sign for the Braves….power arm…before his injury, Gammons said he had some of the best stuff in baseball. This will be his second season removed from Tommy John surgery (I think)….it’s been said that pitchers actually come back stronger from TJ surgery than before……and they usually take 1-2 seasons to achieve that strength…..that would be this year for Morris. AND I think he could be had for relativelt cheap ($4-$6 mill per?). Thoughts?? DOB??
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 07:39 AM | Link to this
BB: Millaaaaaaaah can likely be had for about $3 mill per….no idea about Ausmus. ANd Barmes was on pace to win the ROY award before injury. I think he’s gonna be a good one.
Francouer would make a TERRIBLE leadoff man (but does it really matter after the first inning of the game?)
By the way, I could be WAY off on my Matt Morris rant, someone let me know.
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 07:56 AM | Link to this
Mark Grudzielanek is also available for SS/leadoff.
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 08:29 AM | Link to this
DOB: Sorry if you thought I was criticizing you. I was just wondering if those were all the “rumors” you have heard. I understand that about 95% of the rumors never mature, but, it would be interesting to hear what “possible” moves the Braves are thinking about so that I can get an idea of what direction my favorite team is headed next year. So, keep that ear low to the ground and pass it along my man!
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal of Fox is reporting that the Braves are “upping” their offer to Furcal to a 4yr deal with possible option on 5th yr. His report makes it sound that as though if they sign Furcal, Giles would be gone. I have posted before that this is exctly what I would want to see from the Braves. Of course, if they do that, I would like to see Orr batting lead-off and playing 2nd base, with Furcal batting 2nd. Have you heard anything like this at all DOB? Or is Ken just writing this to get me exited for no reason? You are close to the action, what have you heard? Thanks DOB, keep up the good work. And most importantly thanks for the Blog so that we can all rant and rave.
By Braves Fan
November 9, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this
pitching wins championships,does anyone remember this years playoffs and world series.the team with the best pitching can stop a team,s offense. as for stolen bases the braves don,t really use that as a threat to score runs, and i can,t understand why?
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this
Braves fan….I’ve been saying those exact words for a month now. Giving fooky that kind of money is a complete waste. And the more I think about it, the Braves would have to be stupid to not consider Matt Morris. I read that he will be offerred in the range of a 2 yr, $10 mill contract. This would be a guy who is finally, completely recovered from arm injury and should be poised to have a huge year. He is a power arm which we so desperately need. And we could get him for roughly what we paid John Thomson. And then that further frees up trade bait like HoRam, Sosa and Davies to get more relief help and/or a leadoff man (Juan Pierre).
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this
Just read that the Mutts are seeking a deal with TB for Baez as insurance if they don’t land Wagner. The pitchers mentioned as trade bait were Aaron Heilman, Jae Seo, and maybe Yusmeiro Petit. However Aubrey Huff had to be included for salary purposes. Like I posted earlier, if JS is considering trading for a closer, Baez would be an excellent one-year option. He’s a fastball, power closer and the $4M is more affordable than what Farnsworth would command. Plus, the past two season, Baez save 71 GAMES FOR TAMPA BAY Let me say that again - SAVED 71 GAMES FOR TAMPA BAY
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this
Pocahontis: how many saves did he blow for Tampa? (just curious)
By Rod
November 9, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this
Jumping on the pitching ban wagon, I agree we need to up our pitching. If Matt is available, he would be a good buy. What about AJ Burnett? I don’t know, just a thought.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this
Carroll: Good observation about Morris. I find it strange that the Cards wouldn’t/aren’t going to make him an offer especially at that price. He still relatively young, and definitely a solid pitcher. His ERA has gone up nearly a run since Tommy John surgery, and his strikeout rate has fallen off a bit, but still after AJ Burnett, he’s probably the next best pitcher out on the FA market. Maybe Adam Wainwright or another AAA pitcher is ready to step up. After the miserable season Marquis had there, I don’t think he would be the reason the Cards are letting Morris walk. Signing him would absolutely give us a lot of flexability in the trading market.
By BB FAN
November 9, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this
I think Baez is a very good closer, but he has closed games for Tampa Bay where there is no pressure. Kolb closed games well for Milwaukee which is a similar situation. Just something the Braves would have to consider.
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this
It looks like Baez has only had 11 blown saves over the last 2 years. Not bad at all….I thought it was much worse than that. I’d take he and Huff in a package deal.
By Joe
November 9, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this
Holy Cow, man! Why don’t we just trade the whole darn team away. Furcal wants too much money so he’s gone. We’ll trade Laroche and give up on Julio (who combined for a .270 avg, 29 HR’s, and 120 RBI last year). Then we’ll get rid of Andruw b/c we have a bunch of rookies (minus Francouer) w/ as much talent as AJ has in his (gold) glove, then we’ll get rid of Estrada b/c he’s a better catcher and hitter than McCann; Estrada hits from both sides too, and we can’t have that. Then we’ll get rid of Chipper b/c we all hang out in the dugout and clubhouse and really know what his attitude and emotions are like (Tom Glavine was an emotionless player too, people). Finally, we’ll ditch Smoltz b/c he’s the heart and soul of the team, and move Hudson b/c people weren’t impressed w/ him last year. Did I miss anyone?
Look, we’re not going to get Lidge, or Juan Pierre, or Tino Martinez, or Brian Giles, or Brad Ausmus, or Overbay, or Millar, or Morris (who, by the way, is far from a power pitcher). I’m surprised we haven’t suggested picking up free agents like Matsui,A.J. Burnett, or Konerko yet. Heck, let’s get all three of them! Can we please heed Mr. O’Brien’s plea and stop being ridiculous?
Look, I like to speculate as much as the next guy, but I also like to do w/in reason.
You’re doing a great job Mr. O’Brien, please keep up the good work.
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this
BB: he also closed for Cleveland, and has been closing well for 3 or 4 years now (as opposed to one flash-in-the-pan season for Kolb) But your point is well-taken.
Rod: Burnett will be way too expensive and is somewhat of a head case.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this
Well, I guess getting Urbina is out of the question as a closer. I think when it comes to the closer, if we don’t go after Wagner then we should just hope Devine can get the job done. I think anyone else other than Wagner is a roll of the dice and if we are going to roll the dice then we should do it on a cheap talented pitcher.
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this
Joe: “Look, we’re not going to get Lidge, or Juan Pierre, or Tino Martinez, or Brian Giles, or Brad Ausmus, or Overbay, or Millar, or Morris (who, by the way, is far from a power pitcher).”
What’s your reasoning/basis for saying this?! All of these guys are reasonable additions! And yes Morris IS a power pitcher! Hasn’t been AS powerful the last two seasons,but he could come back! He’s avg 15 wins a year…not bad at all!
And nobody’s saying we should make ALL these moves, or get rid of the “whole team”, as you put it, but we are certainly going to make SOME moves….these are just possible moves, from which one or two could possibly be made. Just don’t read if it bothers that much! Lighten up, dude!
Godbless all, Carroll.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this
Carroll: Haven’t located a blown save stat yet, but Baez W-L record over the same two years is 9-8. You also might have to consider in the games he lost/blew the save that someone might have booted a grounder or two. They are the Devil Rays, ya’ know.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 11:02 AM | Link to this
Too slow on posts. You answered your own question Carroll. Yes, there was probably not as much pressure to save a game as there was say for Atlanta. My point was he saved 71 games for TB. And in those two years, how many games did TB win? And to compare Baez to Kolb? Man, that’s cruel.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this
Before I drive this into the ground, one last stat about Baez. He converted 30 saves in 33 chances last year, fourth in the league by percentage. He also held opponents to a .198 batting average with runners on base in 2004, which was ninth among AL relievers. Will a trade happen? Who knows, but if the Mutts sign him (Baez $4M/Wagner $10M+, they can’t be that smart?) I would hate to see him come out of their bullpen the 9th.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this
Baez could be a good pickup. He is no Kolb. (Thank God!) I think acquiring Baez and Lugo would be a good trade.
By Keith
November 9, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB, is there anyway that you tell us how much money JS has to play with and how the Braves have committed to everyone else that’s left on the 25 man roster?
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 11:11 AM | Link to this
I like that idea of obtaining ichiro but I bet he wouldnt like it in atlanta. Could you imagine having ichiro, andruw, and j. fran. in our outfield. Man that would be sweet. You could actually move andruw and ichiro to the corner spots and tell fran. to just cover right up the middle. Now in the real world i like Baez, pierre, and morris would all be nice signings. Need to get HELP for the bullpen, they have to do this or we will be no better than last year. Oh I have a trade for you D.O. How about sign furcal then immediately trade him horacio, reitsma, and a really good young catcher or pitcher to seattle for ichiro and eddie guardado. I know it wont happen but that would give us a new leadoff hitter way better than furcal and a good relief pitcher/maybe closer.
By Keith
November 9, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this
Also DOB, is there anyway to get an update on how the Braves prospects are doing in Winter Ball?
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this
anyone up for wickman as the closer?….or is he a “soft tosser” too “just like kolb”. he pitched well for the tribe all year, even down the stretch when the games meant so much. i think i would make a run at him…but i am not a GM….so, i digress….
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this
Carroll: A quickie on Rich Aurillia. His overall numbers were declining for the past 4 yrs. until he signed with the Reds last year. How much of that can be attributed to a career resurgence or hitting in a Little League park for 81 games, who knows. I’m still in favor of giving Betemit a shot at SS, but if Aurillia can be signed on the cheap, he’d be a good backup, decent veteran stick off the bench and if Wilson falters a solid plan B.
By Joe
November 9, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this
They are not possible moves; they are pipe dreams. Juan Pierre is a centerfielder; we don’t need one. Lidge is the best closer in baseball; the Astros won’t give him up for average talent. We don’t need a first baseman; we have a pretty darn good one who has only been in the league two years. We don’t need a catcher for the same reason.
MLB Teams (except the Evil Empire and the Muts)don’t just give up on quality talent b/c they had a bad year (except Kolb, I hope).
I’ll try lighten up, sista’, if you try to be reasonable. Deal?
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this
Here is rumor off cbssportsline. Mets trying to get Baez and Huff from Devilrays so they can trade to Redsox in pachage deal for Manny Ramirez. One thing that is not a pipe dream is that the Angels seem certain to lose Molina, that means trading Estrada for one of their bullpen arms might have a good chance. Need for need. I imagine estrada will be traded somewhere, he is expendable now.
By Rod
November 9, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this
I hear all the comments about Pierre. Honestly, I don’t see him in Atl. Drew is going no where, neither is Frenchie. Ryan L came on really strong at the end of the season, and I personally believe he is going to make an impact next season. Looking at the infield, Chip will retire a Brave, SS is up in the air, Giles will be here a while (if Furcal leaves), and I don’t think JS or Cox have given up on Laroche. McCann has proved himself to be a good catcher. That being said, I think the pieces to be traded away would be Estrada, Thompson, or Sosa. Look for the Braves to go for pitching.
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this
Pierre would be a HUGE upgrade both in left field and as a leadoff batter.
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this
the marlins are going to lose burnett, not to mention they already have castillo. that said, they need a starter and already have a leadoff hitter. why can’t some of you see a deal sending pierre to atl and davies(example) to fla? (center pieces to the move, but more players involved probably.)
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this
How about trade estrada to angels for brendan donnelly or scot shields. Sign tom gordon and take chance on morris. Let furcal walk and put betemit in his place. I think betemit is ready to break out, time to find out.
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this
Ding, ding, ding…. Rod, just checked the blog before heading over to the GM meetings hotel (it’s only 8:40 a.m. here) and wanted to give you the award for most reasonable, knowledgeable and logical blog response of the day, of several days, maybe of the entire offseason.
Nice to know someone takes a look at actual needs of the team, budget constraints, inherent obstacles to trading certain individuals, and the needs of other teams, before just blasting off with rumors that make absolutely no sense _ you know, the trade-chipper-for-(fill in the blank with any great young player) crowd.
I’m always amazed when people simply point to a player who killed the Braves this season, especially when it’s a young, affordable stud, and say, “we’ve got to get him.” ]
bulletin: the rest of baseball doesn’t exist as a feeder system for the Braves, and most of baseball views Schuerholz as the preeminent GM in the sport, rather than some over-the-hill hack they can take advantage of.
To those pieces that you suggested the Braves might trade, I would add one of the corner outfielders, Langerhans or Kelly Johnson, simply because several teams need one and the Braves might be able to get pitching in return.
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this
How about marte and horacio for pierre. I like davies too much, would like to see him pitch another year before we just toss him.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this
They need to go for pitching. Bullpen pitching!
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this
Oh, and since there seems to be an obsession with Juan Pierre (have no idea where this comes from), it’s a good time to point something out: He doesn’t drive in runs, has a terrible arm (right there with Johnny Damon for absolute worst outfield arm in baseball), and he makes too much money for a player who produces so few runs.
Other than that, I can see where he’d be the No. 1 guy to target.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this
I totally agree DOB. Look, our problem is bullpen pitching pure and simple. IF we could make a trade for a big impact player without having to give away the farm then fine but suggesting trading someone becasue you don’t like them or because they didn’t live up to your outrageous expectations is not right.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this
I still think Damon is an option. I think he would be willing to play lf and he would possibly be willing to play for a little less money if everything else is good. He would solve the leadoff problem and I am suggesting signing him for 2 years that way we can see if Langerhands is for real.
By BB FAN
November 9, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this
Joe, Any of those guys are realistic if Furcal walks. None of them are exopected to get much more than 5 miilion a year, if that. Furcal made 5.6 million last year, and I’m sure the Braves were counting on 8 million for him next year. Plus with Hampton out a year, that will be an additional 7-8 million from insurance. Kolb made about 4 million last year and I’m sure he is gone. And there are a few others that are gone as well (Mondesi, Martin, Gryboski, probably Jordan). So, there is a lot of money the Braves can spend on the bullpen and a SS/lead off hitter.
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this
Damon? He made, what, $9 mill last year? His agent is Scott Boras. And you think the Braves will make him an acceptable offer.
You can scratch him off the list.
For those who might be ready to defend Pierre: He is coming off a career-worst .276 average/.326 OBP (pathetic OBP for anyone, much less a leadoff man) and he’s been caught stealing 61 times in 228 attempts in past three seasons.
He’s averaged 43 RBIs per hear for the past four (even for a leadoff guy, terrible, especially considering he played at Coors Field before Florida) and he had a total of 19 doubles and two homers in 656 at-bats last season.
Let’s move on. Braves can do much better than Mr. Pierre, who may be the nicest, hardest-working dude on the block, but just isn’t an impact player anymore.
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this
Well the pierre thing was more a fun what if and who where kind of thing. The estrada trade to angels would bring us a much needed bullpen arm, and well tom gordon would be another good arm. I havent looked at teams outfield needs to see who else we might get for kelly or langerhans. I agree the braves really need to focus on the bullpen this year and I still agree with one of the poster way back that morris for a cheap rate would be a good risk. Mix up our starting pitching some. Too bad sosa has trouble hitting the strike zone, i think with his stuff and battling attitude he could be a good closer. Walking people would be his downfall though. Oh and thanks for the props D. O’Brien. I have to admit I did put some thought into that one. All logical trades/signings though that I can actually see the braves taking a look at.
By David O'Brien
November 9, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this
Braves asked for Matt Holliday, to begin with. Check his numbers. No way Rockies giving him up. And that wasn’t all they asked for, either. I’ve got to check with a guy to make sure on the other name. Don’t want to throw it out there until I’m certain I remember the conversation correctly.
As for the report of Braves “upping” offer to four years. They haven’t offered Furcal three years. There’s been no offer made yet, just talks (at least as of Wednesday early A.M.)
And his agent isn’t taking anything less than four years and is asking for five and thinks he’ll get it (I think he will, too, from Cubs, at least a four year offer with fifth-year option that’ll vest if he’s healthy and has reasonable year, but that’s just guess).
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this
DOB: Wow, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? But you’re absolutely right. It is totally insane to talk about getting Lidge, Ichiro, Barmes (yep, I mentioned that). But unfortunately, it’s more fun to toss those names around than Joey Eishen (who would make a good addition to our bullpen - even the Mutts are making noise about him). Keep up the great work! Hope you hear something good at the meetings. You know, it could be worse. You could be covering the Hawks.
By BB FAN
November 9, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this
Why would the Braves have wanted Holliday? He plays the outfield and is not a lead off hitter. Plus his Home/Away stats are complete opposites. At home(Coors Field), he hit .357, .409 OBP, .593 SLG with 12 HRs and 52 RBIs. On the road, he hit .256, .313 OBP, .416 SLG with 7 HRs and 35 RBIs. That’s not what the Braves need.
The Braves need bullpen help and a leadoff hitter. Mainly bullpen. Although, maybe one more starter for other trade possibilities to get bullpen help.
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 12:35 PM | Link to this
Any thoughts on M. Gonzalez, he had a solid year for the pirates. Good against lefties and righties. Is he for real? If so would he be a viable or worthy trade option?
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this
Gosh, DOB, I feel horribly that we have irritated you so badly. We should all try to be better little droids who don’t think independently or dare suggest any possible moves the Braves might/should make.
As for Pierre, leftfield doesn’t require a great arm (see Ron Gant, Barry Bonds, etc,etc). His speed would allow him to cover a good amount of ground, more than making up for what his arm lacks. And we wouldn’t get him with the intention of getting and impact run producer….was furcal that for us? NO! We need a leadoff hitter, supposedly, so that’s why his name came about.
Yes he had a bad year, but does that mean he’s finished? Hell, I rememebr watching baseball tonight earlier this season (or maybe late 2004) and John Kruk said he felt Juan Pierre was as valuable to his team as is Barry Bonds. That’s not to say he’s as good of a player as Bonds, but the role he plays for his team is every bit as valuable as Bonds. I probably wouldn’t go that far with Pierre, but I do see his value. Kruk is certainly no genius, but he does know a thing or two about baseball.
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this
And Pierre is really a bargain at roughly 3-3.5 mill/year (I think).
By Rod
November 9, 2005 01:06 PM | Link to this
DOB, what I wouldn’t give to be at the GM meetings. Why all the hype on Pierre? We are assuming Furcal is gone and need to replace the leadoff spot correct? Why go after Pierre who has a sorry arm, suspect defense, and isn’t clutch at the plate? If we are this worried, why not go after an impact player. I like Langy in left. Here’s some food for thought. If we wanna deal with the Marlins, why not go for L Castillo? Almost automatic to make the allstar team. Great defense, good range, and brings the speed and bat we need for a leadoff. Just a thought.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this
Here’s the deal. The only position player we REALLY need is at SS. I think Lugo would be a good fit. I think if we stick with Langerhans in Lf we should be at worst ok. Damon is a dream I understand. But, sometimes dreams come true. I think the main focus should be spent on the pitching.
By Fabrizio Di Muro
November 9, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this
Pierre has played six years of service in the league (like Furcal), and should be due for a raise soon.
The Braves should re-sign Rafael Furcal. Gold-glove caliber shortstops (and he should have won one this year)who hit leadoff and steal bases are hard to find.
5 years and 53 million. That’s what it’s probably going to take.
Is there any way the Braves can work this into their budget?
DOB any ideas? Does anybody else know how this can be worked into the budget?
By Biff
November 9, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this
The rumors and suggestions are fun, DOB. But I agree, one would think the Braves were a no-talent hapless bunch of losers, to read the whole blog.
I do NOT think we need to trade Estrada; a solid-hitting (and switch-hitting) catcher in his prime, still making very little money, and plays solid defense. What better opportunity to bring one or 2 of the 3 catching prospects along at a reasonable pace. Ausmus rather than Estrada; in no way does that make sense to me.
It does make sense to consider moving Lnagerhans or KJ, even though both are good prospects, as part of a deal for pitching. Corner outfielders are not that hard to replace. And I would guess that among McCann, Pena and Saltamacchia, we could throw one of them into a package deal as well.
I think the starting pitching is fine unless someone offers the world for Thompson, or a lot for Ramirez. Just doesn’t seem like a position where we need to give up young talent to upgrade. And trade Devine? No way!
BBFan, all those guys you mentioned who are “gone” — you’re right, but none of them made any real money and you’ve got to replace them with someone, unless you want an 18 man roster.
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this
somewhere along the line, everyone, including you DOB, have contrived the notion that some of us have forgotten that we despertely need relief pitching. but here is a reminder….signing furcal or not signing furcal is the key to almost every deal that the braves will pull off. his potential contract is large enough that it sits at the forefront of all the other moves that may or may not occur. so, speculating on what the braves can do if they lose furcal is not as mindless as some of you have tried to imply. i would like to say though, i can appreciate your integrity on reporting only what you know to be fact….however, is it hurtful to drop a few rumors with a precurser that you do not know it to be true, but rather just something you have heard while at the meetings? thanks for your insight… go braves!
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB I’ve been trying to Point That out (Pierre’s Defense being as bad or worse than Jonny Damon’s) It’s like people aren’t evaluating other teams players skills other than how hamy homeruns they hit or how many bases they steal. Dolphins Stadium has a lot of real estate, as does the Ted and Pierre is terrible, If I hear one more person say “Let’s get Damon’s overrated carcas, I’m gonna get p** off….Sorry, I got a little carried away
And for Garciaparra, I know he went to GT, but I think he has a huge ego, in his first year and a half in the NL he is nothing like the player he was in Boston, even though he has had the injury bug the last 3+ years
Go Braves!
By Fabrizio Di Muro
November 9, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this
Scott Shields from Anaheim would be good to get. He could even close - he did when K-Rod was out earlier. Doubt that the Angels would give him up, though.
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 01:35 PM | Link to this
Biff, No Offense but Estrada is not in his prime, He’s only played in the bigs for only a combined 2 and a half seasons, and one the reports got out on his offense in Late 04, he declined dramatically
By Biff
November 9, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this
Estrada came to Atlanta as a seasoned player, with some ML service with Philly; then wasn’t he player of the year or something in ‘03 at AAA; as to offense, I’m not saying he’s Johnny Bench. Everybody’s offense suffers as the league gets to know them (see Franceour), but a full season at .315 or something ain’t bad for a catcher.
No offense taken…it’s just talk.
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
a name that could land back in atl…ray king…solid lefty out of the pen….sign him cheap….and i do like the idea of tlking to the angels relief pitching for estrada. both moves would still leave a lot of “cap room” to play with. could still sign furcal and end all the led-off/ss thoughts. could also leave lngerhans in left, who, i do think will turn out just fine. to close, sign wickman/jones…both are more than adequate/cheap.
By Biff
November 9, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this
DOB, or anyone else: any idea what kind of $$ it will likely take to sign BJ Ryan, Farnsworth, or Tom Gordon?
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this
Cool Biff, Estrada came out ballin in the 1st half of 04 but the reports got around and he fell off in the second half, although his throwning out basestealers percentage went up, I thought he looked lost at the plate all season, and it maybe because of injury, I’m on the B-MAC Bandwagon because he has a little bit more power, but he might fall off as well when word gets around next year
Yeah Liefer, I’m on the Bring back BURGER KING Bandwagon as well
And bring back the Bong! Why did we trade him 4 REEKSMA?
By LeTwan Anthony
November 9, 2005 01:57 PM | Link to this
LeTwan thinks there are teams who will trade an impact player - but they’ll want one in return and some young pitching talent, too. Do the Braves give up some more young talent, or play them?
Maybe JS thinks he has his ss in Betemit. Bobby says he wants to resign Furcal. Will they do it because Bobby wants it? Nah.
Better worry about the pen and about what happens when a starter goes down.
Who will replace Hollandsworth? Franco? Who comes off the bench for this team?
LeTwan is “well-connected” as DOB likes to call it and LeTwan has heard that the Braves are almost certainly going for a guy named Lars. Have you heard this one, too?
Carroll and LeTwan have discussed Pierre before and LeTwan thinks Pierre is not suited for much more than running the bases - and he’s not even doing that very well anymore. Besides, he can’t play for Bobby for obvious reasons. Better to get Chauncey than Pierre.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this
Holy Gotham Payroll! Read in the NYTimes that the Mutts are inquiring about Soriano. Who isn’t Minaya (or should that be Maniacal) trying to get? Manny. Wagner. Fooky. Baez. Babe Ruth. Let this be a lesson to all us GM wannabes - Minaya is mortgaging the Mets future (and possibly the future of the Mets owners kids) trying to keep up with the Yankees. JS is doing it right folks - trusting the farm to replace losses, making smart moves (sometimes) and going after free agents and trades that make sense for the Braves that season and longer.
And Fabrizio, I said this before - Furcal is a good SS, and maybe he will be a Gold Glove winner one day, but no way he could (or should) have won the GG over Jimmy Rollins, Jose Reyes, Jack Wilson or David Eckstein. All of them are vastly superior at short.
By Rod
November 9, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this
Biff, I read somewhere the other day, Farnsworth may ask for $6-$7 Mill per year. Don’t quote me on that, but I think that’s what it said. As for the comments about the Angels pitching. One thing to consider. Why would they trade a good relief pitcher for a catcher when they already have Molina?
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this
rod: molina is likely to go to the yanks…through free agency. why you ask…that is why
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this
What R U talkin about Eckstein is sure handed but he has half the Range and Half the arm of Furcal. No offense, but that sounded like it came from a cardinal fan… Just like they make the argument on Edmonds defense over Andruws
Any one read the steroid page at espn? I’d like to get Ronnie Gant’s testimony from the Juiced 90’s, I heard David Justice claim that some of the phillies were in 93 (I know Hollins and Dyksta were on them). But did anyone see Gant when he was with Cincinnati and St. Louis. He was huge, his upper arms were as big as my thighs…
By Rod
November 9, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the insight Lifer. Didn’t know Molina was looking to leave.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this
Rod: Benji Molina filed for FA. I read that the Angels have made Konerko their main acquisition this year and may not have the $$$ to sign them both.
By Ron Roberts
November 9, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox: 2005 NL Manager of the Year.
But all those who like to call him Booger because he sits in the dugout scratching his nose, and nit-pick on his decision-making… they obviously know better than those who cover the game what a quality MLB manager is.
By the way, so what if the guy picks his nose? Dude, hang out around dirt (‘aka’ a baseball field long enough, and you’ll soon realize how many boogers your nose gets. Nice lunchtime conversation, eh?
:-)
Hey, didn’t I see the Cubs sign N. Perez to an extension? I know they’re interested in playing him more as an every-day guy in the infield, plus they have a kid in their minor league system they’re ready to give a shot at SS or 2B, too. And ESPN is reporting that the Cubs are talking to Nomar’s agents, too.
Furky might have one less suitor.
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this
Food for thought …could Furcal want to leave Atlanta just to try and get away from his off-the-field problems?? Haven’t see/heard anything…just curious what everyone’s thoughts were on that.
By BB FAN
November 9, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this
Biff, Most, if not all, of those guys have been replaced with rookies making the league minimum.
Rod, Molina is a free agent.
The Braves have to concentrate on the bullpen and the leadoff position. It doesn’t have to be a guy that steals 50 + bases, just a guy that gets on base (st least .380 OBP) and maybe steal 20 bases or hits a lot of doubles. That’s why I mentioned Lofton before. I’m sure the Braves could find a player like that for around 3-4 million a year through a trade or as a free agent. Then the rest of the money they save by letting Furcal go can be spent on that sorry bullpen.
By Carroll
November 9, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this
Ronnie: does that mean he’ll be coaching the all-star team? I thought he won it last year too, but he didn’t coach the 05 NL all-stars.
By Rod
November 9, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this
It seems like the Angels are after some big names this offseason. Signing Konerko would put an end to the Manny rumors huh? It now seems that Mets are trying to get him. You know, it doesn’t seem to matter who the Mets get, they are always terrible. Oh well, back to the only team that matters. My gut feeling is that Thompson’s option was picked up only for trade bait. I could be wrong, and kinda hope I am. I really like Thompson. He is an good #4 guy. (Although he will probably be 3 in Atl if we get no one). I just don’t see Atl paying $5 mil for him when we have Ramirez, Sosa, and Davies. I really think either Sosa or Thompson will be gone, but I think Thompson is gone first.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this
Not a Cards fan. Eckstein had a higher BA (.294/Furcal .284), a higher OBP (.363/.348). They had the same fielding percentage and errors last year. Maybe stating Eckstein as ‘vastly superior’ over Furcal was an error on my part, but I believe Eckstein, Rollins, Reyes, or Wagner still deserved the GG more than Furcal.
By Astro Joe
November 9, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if 2 makes a trend, but the Braves have always gone into a season with one of the NL’s 5 best left-handed starters. Now that’s easy to do when over the past 15+ years you’ve had Glavine and then Hampton. Anyway, I can’t imagine that our top 4 pitchers going into next season will all be right-handers and don’t mention Ramirez’ name. With Smoltz’ arm another year older, do we really want to have either Thompson or Sosa as the #3 starter? I’m guessing that the priority will be bullpen help & a lefty starter before they address any position players. Isn’t Barry Zito a year away from a big payday?
By Robert
November 9, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this
WE all know that Giambi was on steroids, thus people saying he only hit well because of the juice. Does anyone think he was on the juice this past season?
By Rod
November 9, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure I buy into the whole we need a good lefty starter. I know this is an overstatement, but would you rather have Clemons or Hampton? Some may argue Hampton, I don’t know why, but I would rather have Clemons. Don’t get me wrong, I like Mike and am glad he is on our team, but I’m trying to make a point. Yes, there are lefties out there that I would love to have in Atl, Santana for example, but if we can aquire a good right hander, I don’t see the difference really.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this
I think Furcal’s D.U.I. probation issue would be turned over to a probation officer in the city he winds up in. Not sure how much time he has left but Don Sutton did mention during the Division celebration, Fooky couldn’t be in the room while the bubbly was being sprayed around.
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this
If the Braves wanted to trade for Zito, they would want to ssure themselves of a semi-long term deal so that he was not a one-year rent-a-player (or atleast I would hope that is what they would do). However, getting a good left-handed starter is not a bad move. Wouldn’t mind seeing the 2nd member of the big three in atl, might help hudson out having a familiar face around.
By Del Young
November 9, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this
Just read an interesting article on the Detroit News WEB page. If the Tigers move Rodriquez (which is likely) and the Braves lose Furcal (also likely) they might be interested in trading their Infante (S/S, 2B) for our Estrada. It also indicated that Carlos Pena (1B) will probably be available. Appears to me that a package deal could be worked out here without too much trouble, since the Tigers also need OF help. If we could plug our infield hole and the backup 1B hole we can then concentrate all our efforts on shoring up our pitching staff. Let Infante compete with WB for the starters job, or with PO for the utility position. Let Pena compete with LaRoche for the starters job. I thought this was an possibility.
By Rod
November 9, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this
Zito would be nice. What are the chances though? Who would we swap? What about our bulpen needs? Yes, we have some good young pitchers, but we need a stable vet to anchor us.
By Rod
November 9, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this
(in the bulpen)
By Eric
November 9, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this
Imagine a rotaion of Smoltz-Hudson-Zito…I dont even care who the other 2 are…we would have the best “BIG 3” in baseball…barring the retirement of Clemens. If anyone has any thoughts…IM me @ Webber2972
By Biff
November 9, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this
BB Fan: re the guys “gone”, gotcha. I misunderstood that you had misunderstood.
Del, I don’t really know Infante; just reading his stats, looks like a weak bat and weak glove. Kinda the same with Pena, though he has a little power. Interesting thought, though.
Astro, if the Braves did pursue a topline LH starter (which I don’t think they will with Hampton back in ‘07), are you suggesting we keep Ramirez as a number 4/5 or trade him?
And Ron, I also read that the Cubs picked up the option on 2B Todd Walker. Seems like if they sign Furcal OR Nomar, there’s a logjam. Wonder if N. Perez or R. Cedeno might become available.
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this
Anyone think that playing for 2-time defending nl manager of the year, widely accepted as one of the best gms, and playing with the team he grew up with might play a role in furcal’s consideration to stay with the braves?
By Robert
November 9, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this
We are not going to get Furcal. The Cubs will pay top dollar. The pressure is on them with the White Sox winning the WS. And if the Cubs don’t get him the Mets or Red Sox will. The Braves need to decide on how they want to proceed with the SS situation.
By Booger
November 9, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this
Google it. The Queen of England picking her nose! Wearing white gloves! Really!
I think this redeems Bobby Cox. If the Queen does it, it must be tasteful - (tasteful, not tasty, Bobby).
We’ll forgive Bobby Cox for bringing this into our living rooms all season - after all, he’s around dirt.
RR calls it “scratching” but most would agree it’s “digging”. Now Bobby has another plaque for the wall and another surface on which to stick something. Be sure and shake his hand when you see him.
Congratulations, Skip.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this
Booger, cut Bobby some slack. I think he digs in his nose so much that he doesn’t even realize he’s doing it.
By eric
November 9, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this
Imagine a rotaion of Smoltz-Hudson-Zito…I dont even care who the other 2 are…we would have the best “BIG 3� in baseball…barring the retirement of Clemens. If anyone has any thoughts…IM me @ Webber2972
By Robert
November 9, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this
We all have or vices. Some baseball guys spit
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this
eric, even if we wanted to im you like little children or college school girls…we couldn’t b/c we don’t know your service provider for your instant messanger…the blog is a perfect forum.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this
I menat to say was some people spit sunflower seeds and other like Bobby spit….well you know
By OUTLAWED
November 9, 2005 03:28 PM | Link to this
Forget about what Bobby does with his nose AND all that non sense you guys write about ..THIS JUST IN GUYS BOBBY COX IS THE MANAGER OF THE YEAR.. GO BRAVES
By Biff
November 9, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this
It’s a free country, and we have the 1st amendment and all, so this is just my humble opinion: enough about Bobby and his nose. Who cares?
By Robert
November 9, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this
And he absolutely deserves it. Scioscia is probably the only other manager that could have led a team that used 18 rookies to a division title. I kid Bobby because I care.
By Booger
November 9, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this
Robert, you may be on to something. Bobby may not realize that he is picking his nose in public. Most of us would depend on our wife to tell us something like that but I don’t think Bobby’s wife is going to say anything that may make him angry. Perhaps we could involve Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter. They sit not too far from the dugout. They have to see it. Perhaps, just perhaps …
By LeTwan Anthony
November 9, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this
LeTwan doesn’t like where this is going. LeTwan promised BBFan sometime ago he would not post anything about Bobby’s nose. LeTwan thinks that is a good policy for all bloggers. LeTwan just noticed the similarity in spelling between “Blogger’ and “Booger”. That is unfortunate. We were talking baseball until that Roberts guy got us sidetracked. How ‘bout them Braves!
By OUTLAWED
November 9, 2005 03:37 PM | Link to this
You are right Biff, who cares what Bobby does with his nose? I wonder how many hitters passed gas while standing to hit, leaving those poor catchers in a very uncomfortable situation? GO BRAVES
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this
letwan: since you are “very well connected” what have you heard recently regarding our beloved bravos?
By LeTwan Anthony
November 9, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this
LeTwan just heard this story from his baby sister in Texas:
Chipper and his best huntin’ buddy LaRoche were dragging their dead deer back to their truck. Another hunter approached pulling his along too.
“Hey, I don’t want to tell you how to do something … but I can tell you that it’s much easier if you drag the deer in the other direction. Then the antlers won’t dig into the ground.”
After the third hunter left, the two decided to try it.
A little while later Chipper said to LaRoche, “You know, that guy was right. This is a lot easier!”
“Yeah, but we’re getting farther from the truck.”
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this
i have a thought: is there anyone that would not want furcal back in the braves clubhouse if money was not an object? i would be very interested to see how many people wouldn’t want him back. after you answer, then ask yourself if the braves should try to retain his services.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this
First, LaTwan I am sorry for talking about Bobby’s “habit”. Second, I think that everyone would want Furcal back if money was not involved. I get the point.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 9, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this
Booger and Robert, LeTwan is not a big fan of Jimmy Carter but the idea of having Jimmy Carter talk with Bobby is not a bad one. How do you think he would bring up the subject? Think they’d ever share a bag of peanuts?
By Jeffrey
November 9, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this
Just checked the free agent list at MLB.com.
Old Braves relief pitchers available: Antonio Alfonseca, Chad Fox, Chris Hammond, Roberto Hernandez, Steve Karsay, Kerry Ligtenberg, Terry Mulholland, Mike Remlinger, Rudy Seanez, Russ Springer, and Mike Stanton.
Any interests in bringing back any of these guys? Most would work for a minimum salary or food.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this
Only if they were in a shell.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 04:09 PM | Link to this
If money wasn’t an issue, I’d be glad to have Fooky back on the team. But money is an issue. Giving Fooky what he wants would hamstring the Braves from signing players to fill the team’s needs in the future. When Marcus, Chipper, and Andrew’s contracts come up - not to mention arbitration for the baby braves - you wonder at the $80M payroll level (shouldn’t they raise it to reflect inflationary levels?) who they would keep and how much they could give them.
By Robert
November 9, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this
That’s just it. This is the economic climate of baseball. Furcal is not worht $12 million but that is what he will get paid. Its not his fault. If someone is going to pay him that then he should get it. I agree that Furcal as good as he may be is not worht risking the future over.
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 04:38 PM | Link to this
Robert, I thought I was the only one who thought Giambi was back on some kind of undetectable juice…If you look at it for Giambi had nothing to lose, It’s either go to the minors or get released and go to the point where no one will give a huge contract for someone who used steroids, or Juice up again in the second half of the season and keep your current contract, You Choose… If your in Jason’s Shoes
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this
Jeffrey, I want no more Homer Hernandez, or no more Steve Karsay, they are worse than Reeksma
By Robert
November 9, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this
I would think Jason didn’t do the juice. Surely he would not be so stupid as to risk a positive test result
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this
Any updates Dave?
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this
anybody know what the exact payroll stands at right now for the braves (with the current players under 2006 contracts). i would like to know the “cap room” with which john and bobby are working with.
By Biff
November 9, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this
To be honest, the more I think about and read bloggers’ suggestions (and DOB’s) on the options, I’m having second thoughts on Furcal (not that it matters what I think). A quality SS and leadoff man is not so easy to replace, is he? I’d like to see the Braves make him a respectable offer (not get into a bidding war)…but I know that money generally talks.
Assuming he’s gone, I have a lot of respect for the Braves’ ability to build a competitive team without getting locked into price wars. Seems to me that we should look at putting WB at short, and trading a catcher (any one of them…we’ve got 4), and if necessary a starting pitcher (thompson/Ramirez/Davies) for a corner outfielder with some speed. Langerhans could benefit from playing as 4th outfielder for a year or two.
Use the Furcal/Kolb and Hampton cash to sign two relievers (assuming Farnsorth is gone too). Maybe include Giles as trade bait if needed (I like him, but he’s more replaceable than Furcal).
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 05:03 PM | Link to this
I do think so dude, I Know you saw how he was performing before the threat of getting shipped to the minors he was garbage, and then comes back and performs like an MVP in the second half, and I know he didn’t do all this guzzling milk…
By Robert
November 9, 2005 05:09 PM | Link to this
Surely, he got tested during the season though. YOu know he had to be one of the first ones tested and tested often.
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 05:20 PM | Link to this
I don’t think so… This policy is coming from Dud Selig, the one who was the last one to know that players were juicing for the last 15 years…Go Figure…
By Robert
November 9, 2005 05:23 PM | Link to this
Good point.
By TerryPendletonRules
November 9, 2005 05:39 PM | Link to this
If the Braves don’t pony up for Furcal, what message does that send to our rookies? It says if you’re a great player, we’re not going to pay you.
The only problem I have with Raf, and I think most fans as well, is his bat is rather inconsistent. Can we somehow get rid of Hampton’s contract to keep him?
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 05:42 PM | Link to this
does anyone know where I can go to see the payroll for 2006 based on the current players under contract?
By eric
November 9, 2005 05:43 PM | Link to this
Imagine a rotaion of Smoltz-Hudson-Zito…I dont even care who the other 2 are…we would have the best “BIG 3� in baseball…barring the retirement of Clemens. If anyone has any thoughts…IM me @ Webber2972
By Biff
November 9, 2005 05:46 PM | Link to this
TP, I don’t think you worry about what the rooks think, too much. When their time comes, they’ll get an offer or they won’t, and just like Furcal, they’ll follow the money. Loyalty is a myth, on both sides of the table (gee, that sounds cynical, doesn’t it).
I doubt anyone’s going to trade for Hampton’s contract this year given his status, but you never know, I guess.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 05:46 PM | Link to this
With all the heat Bud and Donald and MLB are getting from Congress, they probably did follow the letter of the law in the drug testing agreement. I found something on FindLaw.com that looked like the contract, but Googling turned up that all players are tested and are subjected to one random test during the season. Some players can be subjected to more than one random test (due cause). I’m not totally sure if this is correct but it’s something to go on. If Giambi juiced, he was taking a chance.
Speaking of steroids, in the same ESPN article mentioned above, it’s alleged that notes from Cansaco’s trainer said that he gave McGwire two types of steroids. What a surprise.
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 05:57 PM | Link to this
Um TPrules who are you going to ship the most overpaid pitcher in baseball to? Oh and he is hurt as well. I’m not trying to be mean but that was a dumb statement/question.
I also have to say that Tom Glavine is a prime example when you think with your bank account and not your brain. I like furcal and would like to see him stay but overpaying is stupid. The question he needs to answer is the extra 2-4 million a year worth leaving the braves. I think these agents get in these guys heads and drum them with you have to get the most money, and why is that? I guess because it makes them more money. I guess if he stays in atlanta he wont be able to afford that third house in the hamptons. Give me a break, you know for once I would like someone to consider playing for a great organization, training facilities, teammates, the city where you play, winning for a change. I took alot less money so I could work close to home and not spend every day fighting traffic to downtown atlanta. I will tell you not having that to stress about is worth every penny I gave up.
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 05:58 PM | Link to this
Suprise my a*, LOL, I knew it in 96, I was watching the home run derby from that year and the players were huge (Jay Buhner, McGwire, etc Bonds was toned at the time you really don’t notice anythink abot him until you look at the difference in his body from 2000 to 2001
And for all this stuff that happened with canseco in Texas with Juan gone and Pudge, Guess who was the Leader at the top of the reign in that Cesspool
By Biff
November 9, 2005 06:00 PM | Link to this
Paul, I think Hudson’s an example of someone who took “the whole package” over top dollar. But generally, of course, you’re right.
By Jeffrey
November 9, 2005 06:06 PM | Link to this
USA Today ran a list from Mrach of 2005 that had the Braves ogligated to $63.6 million in contracts for 2006. For 2007 the obligations were $38 million. For 2008 it was $31.5 million and for 2009 it was $15.5 million.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-03-23-decade-of-debt_x.htm#guaranteed
By Columbo
November 9, 2005 06:18 PM | Link to this
This steroid discussion is revealing. Drugs in baseball is nasty stuff. Muscle heads taking steroids and rewriting the record books. This substance thing brings up an interesting thought. Do you think it is possible, just think about it before you answer - do you think it is possible that instead of pulling something out - Bobby is putting something in when he goes to the nose? Here’s my card. Call me if you remember anything.
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 06:18 PM | Link to this
jeffrey, thank you…i have looked everywhere else. so, let me think, that gives the braves no less than $16M to spend this year to have a payroll of $80M (assuming jeffrey’s figures are after the insurance reimbursement from hampton’s contract)
if the braves were able to retain furcal for say - $9M per, then that leaves no less than $7M to sign two relievers and account for some arbitration increases. Last year the Braves had an $85M payroll, which if they carried again this coming year, they would have $12M with which to work after signing furcal. (and again, that is assuming these numbers have already accounted for the reimbursement of hapmton’s insurance this year)
so, I think the braves and sign furcal and use the other 7-12 million to sign say, todd jones and ray king. those simple moves take care of the bullpen, ss, and lead-off guys. also, if they wanted, the braves could trade the free-swinging giles and a package deal of estrada or a starting pitcher if they wanted….i don’t see the “lack of money” arguement for signing furcal to a 9m/year deal…..anyone else in case i missed something? (again, thanks jeffrey)
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 06:27 PM | Link to this
by the way—todd jones and ray king combined for less than $3M last year and both would be more than adequte FA additions
By Mark
November 9, 2005 06:40 PM | Link to this
Cograts to Bobby(BOOGER)Cox , yes he deserves manager of the year and yes he is still OVERATED !!!!!! 15 postseason teams and one freaking championship only because the 95 team was the best damn baseball team in the past 25 years ( see the following six HOF’S ). Yes , Glavine , Smoltz , Maddux , McGriff , Chipper and Javy will eventually end up in the HOF. when Cox brings Atlanta another WS championship I will shut up and stop ranting. Enough said.
By Biff
November 9, 2005 06:42 PM | Link to this
Jones has been a pretty pedestrian pitcher his whole career, and somehow had a great year last year. I’m not saying “no”, just that we should be careful with hanging our bullpen renovation on him. I’d rather see us go after a light-out closer like Ryan who might cost a lot, but would be here for a while. King wouldn’t be a bad addition, but is not dominant (and for some reason had about his worst year when he was here). I like Furcal but think he’s gone… so would should spend some real money on the bullpen rather than a patchwork of mediocre pitchers.
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 06:42 PM | Link to this
Well I hate to say it but if todd jones and ray king are the best we can come up with for the bullpen then I think we might as well get ready for another season of bullpen disasters. I would offer furcal 3 yrs at 7 million. Try to trade thompson/ramirez and estrada for scot shields. The angels need a catcher and another starter. Try to go after t. gordon and get some servicable backups. Might go a little bit over but tom gordon and scot shields to me would be a big upgrade, ray king and jones are iffy in my opinion at best.
By Biff
November 9, 2005 06:47 PM | Link to this
Mark, Mcgriff (very questionable), and Javy (no way) in the HOF? Smoltz, CJ and Glavine - maybe. Maddux is the only sure HOF’er of that group. Talk about your backhanded compliment, btw. “Congratulations Bobby, you stink!”
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 06:56 PM | Link to this
Maddux will be a first ballot guy, glavine will take a couple time before he makes it. Smoltz maybe because he was so dominant as a reliever, he doesnt make it as a starter though not in my opinion. Chipper is borderline, he probably wont make it though. McGriff and Javy no way.
By Mark
November 9, 2005 06:57 PM | Link to this
okay Biff. Did you know BC let Barry Bonds get away not ONCE ,BUT TWICE ! Also , when he didn’t listen to his scouts and draft Frank Thomas( anyone remember tyler houston? ) This man only let the best baseball player of our generation get away twice. Put Bnds in left and thomas at first for the majority of the 90’s and you tell me how many WS championship’s the bravos could have had. Thank you Booger Cox , thank you very mutch.
By Biff
November 9, 2005 07:04 PM | Link to this
Mark, I don’t remember Bonds winning any WS titles anywhere he’s played, and it seems to me he’s sucking the air out of the Giants’ organization, but I won’t argue that too hard; obviously a great player. I can argue with folks who think Bobby is a bad playoff manager (I don’t really agree, but that’s okay - at least there is basis for the dicussion). But to trash the Braves’s evaluation of talent — we’ve drafted at or near the bottom for 15 years and yet have more talent in the organization, and probably more of our players playing for other ML teams than any team in baseball — well, I just don’t know why I should even argue about that. Mike Piazza was a millionth pick, or something… some get away, but the body of work in THAT department speaks for itself.
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 07:16 PM | Link to this
Dude I wanted to see at least 3 championships in dis run, but it has been a run of good baseball especially watching the guys that have come through the system develop and mature…But If we had the excitement that we had in 91 we would have won at least 2 more titles
BTW 8-Straight 100 rbi seasons at 3rd Chipper will be 1st ballot when all said and done, McGriff should be as well all those 30+ homers seasons and homering in over 50 different MLB stadiums
By Mark
November 9, 2005 07:17 PM | Link to this
obviously ???? Okay I can’t stand Bond’s , actually I hate the guy. However he is the greatest beseball player I’ve ever seen play. Atlanta has the best scouting in the game and has for a long time. I didnt trash the scouting , just BC for the two worst mistakes of his career. Yes BC has managed for so long that I believe he is predictable to a certain point and some manager’s have the book on BC.
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 07:19 PM | Link to this
Well Mark I’m not trying to rain on your parade but didnt the lowly bravos defeat a bonds led pittsburgh team twice in the postseason? Kinda strange too that the white sox didnt win a world series til they sat thomas on the bench. I not saying tyler houston was really any good but then thats how it goes sometimes. Didnt the braves draft chipper jones over todd van popel? I also enjoyed the espn article referencing bonds being p** about sosa and mcguire hogging the spotlight in 98 and thus jumping on the steroid wagon. That sounds about right to me. He was a toothpick in pittsburgh compared to now.
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 07:21 PM | Link to this
maybe ray king and todd jones are headliners, but the example was made to show that there seams to be more room thn some think….provided the braves aren’t trying to sign furcal AND wagner type contracts. one point i might make…if you have good relief pitching and good starting pitching, put a poor ss to field/throw, what good does that do you….plus, if you can’t score runs, what good does that do you either….still think furcal is should be priority 1a with relief pitching being 1b.
By Biff
November 9, 2005 07:23 PM | Link to this
Regarding CJ and the HOF, I hope so! Right now just don’t know if he’s got the numbers, or will get there. McGriff tried to hard to come back and get his 500th homer. Hey, I’d like to see all of ‘em get in…I’m a fan.
That Braves team WAS very talented in ‘95, and also had a private owner who would shell out the big bucks…and CJ and Javy were LOW DOLLAR players at the time.
Lastly, almost every player on that team was ‘home-grown’ except Maddux and McGriff, and Bourbon, a great midseason pickup.
By Biff
November 9, 2005 07:27 PM | Link to this
My mistake; I think Bourbon was a product of the system too. I was thinking of Pena, a couple of years earlier.
By Rosalynn
November 9, 2005 07:28 PM | Link to this
Jimma does this for a living. I can get him to talk to Bobba. I see Bobba in the dugout diggin away and I haven’t seen anybody do that since Miz Lillian (RIP) used to pick ‘em stick ‘em to her bonnet. Jimma negotiated with her and got her to stop. I think he can do the same with Bobba. I also think anyone who wants to bring back Ray King doesn’t remember him from last time. I just know he wore his pants too tight for my likin’ and he gave up a lot of HR’s.
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 07:29 PM | Link to this
Don’t forget Alejandro Pena, He was money in the postseason, Hey D.O.B What’s the word with Brian Jordan has he started his Development Full Time, I’d still rather see him on the bench over Hollandsworthless
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 07:32 PM | Link to this
Everyone who isn’t a Teenybopper Frenchie bandwagon braves fan know’s who Burger King is(Hell we coined the nickname). Burger King started out slow but Finished up strong, and had a good year for the Cards in that JD Screw trade….
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 07:33 PM | Link to this
Tomahawkin I think there are only 13 third basemen in the HOF. Chipper Jones is nowhere near a first ballot and as I said before he will be lucky to make it. I mean we are talking Mike Schmidt, Wade Boggs, Eddie Matthews, Brooks Robinson, George Brett. All of those guys have some combination of 500 plus home runs, 3k hits, batting titles, gold gloves, etc. 8 seasons of 100 rbi’s doesnt even begin to compete with these guys. No gold gloves. He is a LONG way from 500 homeruns. The more I think about it he is definately not in the same class as these guys. I like Chipper alot but gimme a break. Chipper Jones stays has been hurt way too much to keep up with these guys. The hall of fame is extremely hard to get into.
By Ol' Coach from wayback
November 9, 2005 07:44 PM | Link to this
HOF? Chipper isn’t even the best 3B to play in Atlanta.
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 07:51 PM | Link to this
Thats the thing, however out of all those third baseman none of them did it eight straight seasons, and if you look at it by the time chipper retires lets say 39, and averages 25 homeruns a year til then he will be around 485 homeruns and he has never been on a losing team(that will end however) but even with his injuries this year name 2 third baseman other than Ensberg or A. Ramirez that had better years, Chipper is still one of the best at his position albeit he is way overpaid
By A Lifer
November 9, 2005 07:58 PM | Link to this
oh so chipper bashing is now the topic to best fix next year’s team?…i see…
By Biff
November 9, 2005 08:05 PM | Link to this
Lifer, I agree…hard not to get sucked in when someone says something that makes your ears burn.
I agree with you in principle, but like I said, I think (if Furcal is gone) we can do better than Jones and King (I wouldn’t mind one or the other, at a good price, but think we need someone more topnotch). Ryan looks to me like the stud of the F/A class, but I get no feedback on him. Maybe he’s priced out of our league, though we should have some money to spend.
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 08:07 PM | Link to this
I never said chipper jones wasnt a very good third basemen. The fact remains in all of baseball history only 13 guys have been selected at the position and chipper doesnt have the numbers. He is average definsively. Wade boggs was the last third basemen to get in. He had over 3k hits, had like 5 batting titles, a gold glove, like 12 all star games, like 8 straight season of 200 or more hits, etc. Chipper will need monster numbers to make it. He will also need to stay healthy to even have a chance. He definately will not make the 3k club and I doubt very seriously he will hit 500 homeruns. He will never win a gold glove. I really dont know where you get he is the 14th best third baseman ever to play the game. He will make the ballot but then alot of people do but very few actually make it in the HOF. Just think about that only 13 players at his position have made it in baseball history, thats it.
By Paul Hamilton
November 9, 2005 08:14 PM | Link to this
I admit it is a bit off topic but I dont see debating chipper jones as being a hall of famer as bashing. I would think that is a complement that he is even mentioned as possibly making the hall of fame. Oh you thought we were talking about the hall of fame for losers a lifer? Some of you people are so sensitive with chipper, I think if you read back in my bashing of chipper that i said i like chipper alot. I guess like for you means that they suck.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 9, 2005 08:24 PM | Link to this
Lighten up. He’s just a ballplayer.
Between girlfriends and wives, Chipper decides to buy a ranch in Texas, as far from humanity as possible. He sees the postman once a week and gets groceries once a month. Otherwise it’s total peace and quiet.
After a few months of almost total isolation, someone knocks on his door. He opens it and sees a huge, bearded man standing there.
“Name’s Lars, your neighbor from forty miles up the road …Having a party Friday night… Thought you might like to come. About 5:00.”
“Great”, says Chipper, “after a few months out here I’m ready to meet some local folks. Thank you.”
As Lars is leaving, he stops. “Gotta warn you…There’s gonna be some drinkin’.”
“Not a problem” says Chipper. “In the off season, I can drink with the best of ‘em.”
Again, the big man starts to leave and stops. “More ‘n’ likely, gonna be some fightin’ too.”
“Well, I get along with people, I’ll be all right. I’ll be there. Thanks again.”
“More’n likely be some wild sex, too.”
“Now that’s really not a problem” says Chipper, warming to the idea. “I’ve been all alone for three months! I’ll definitely be there. By the way, what should I wear?”
“Whatever you want. Just gonna be the two of us.”
By Biff
November 9, 2005 08:27 PM | Link to this
Paul, can’t answer for lifer; just for the record, the thing that “made my ears burn” was the original comment criticizing Cox’s history with talent evaluation. But, we’ve covered that, or moved on.
I THINK lifer’s point is that the subject of the blog is to discuss the offseason moves; he’s been pretty consistent in sticking to topic, but of course some times it veers in one direction or another.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 08:31 PM | Link to this
A Lifer: I found slightly higher figures - $69M for 2006 and almost $40 in 2007 (a site called Hardball Dollars) but I’m not sure about the accuracy. That said, are you saying that the Braves should build their franchise around and stake their future on a lifetime average .284BA/92R/159H/31SB player by investing $9M-12M for 4 to 5 yrs?
Peter Gammons said tonight on ESPNEWS that the Cubs are making it job#1 for them to sign Furcal and fast. Opening volley - 4 yrs, $40M. They want to sign him by Thanksgiving so you know they are going to offer him the moon. And the Red Sox and Mets haven’t even thrown an offer at him yet.
I’d rather invest that kind of money in an impact player (power pitcher who can win 20+ games; a 40/200/125/.300 power hitter who can play 1B; a lights out closer). Remember, Furcal made the jump from AA. Who says that can’t happen again?
Again, don’t get me wrong. I like Fooky to resign with the Braves. But he’s going for the quan and I have absolutely no problem with that. It’s just too bad he won’t get it from the Braves.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 08:41 PM | Link to this
And regarding BC not drafting Bonds, or signing him when he was a FA. 1). What makes you think Barry would have stayed in Atlanta when he was eligible as a FA. Which then brings me to 2). We wouldn’t have signed Greg Maddux.
I forgot who said this but good point about Piazza. Barry could have been as good as Pete Rose Jr. (but hopefully not trafficing drugs right now). The MLB draft isn’t as cut and dry as the NFL. Don’t ask me why. Could it really be that hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports?
By Biff
November 9, 2005 08:58 PM | Link to this
Pocahomer: good points. I keep asking, but no one answers (maybe no one knows…): why not BJ Ryan? He’d cost a penny or two, but seems to be quality, and he’s relatively young (about 30, I think). Does anyone know what his likely destination and cost are?
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 09:33 PM | Link to this
Biff: Mlb.com has BJ Ryan - 30 yr. lefty reliever - listed as one of the 2005 top ten FA. Here’s what they say:
“Ryan converted 36 of 41 save opportunities in 2005. He did not allow a home run in his last 41 appearances, a span of 42 1/3 innings. In 70 1/3 innings, he struck out 100 and walked just 26…but 2005 was the first time he’s been a full-time closer. You also have to wonder why the Orioles were slow to try to sign him to an extension last winter when the pitcher was initially willing.”
Couldn’t find any numbers on what it might take to sign him but they list the Orioles, Yankees, Astros, Red Sox & Blue Jays as potential bidders, so you know it might go as high as Billy Wagner numbers since BJ is younger & has less history on the DL than Wagner. Farnsworth might go for less, but Ryan has a proven record as a closer.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 09:37 PM | Link to this
Oh, the Yankees and Astros are probably interested in Ryan as a set-up man for now, closer for the future. I don’t think the Braves are serious contenders for Ryan probably due to the money. But you never know.
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 09:42 PM | Link to this
And he made $2.6M last year.
By Biff
November 9, 2005 09:47 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Pocahomer. I think Farnsworth could be a big timer, but is not proven and from what I hear the asking price is too high. I have a feeling we’re going to spend some real money on a closer, but maybe find a way to rent for a year or two (via trade for a catcher and a st. pitcher), as Devine is probably ‘the future’ there (hopefully). But I don’t see the Braves letting another year pass giving up blown saves for Smoltz, so something will happen.
By Tomahawkin
November 9, 2005 09:53 PM | Link to this
If the Flubbies are making Furcal their top priority, then they will be in the NL central cellar next year, That team has issues…
By Pocahorner
November 9, 2005 10:56 PM | Link to this
Possible 2006 bullpen in no particular order: Devine, McBride, Boyer, Joey Eischen (or Chris Hammond), Reitsma (cringe, rather have Lerew but BC loves Reitsma and the price may be right), Davies or Sosa (if they don’t trade Ramirez, one will be the #5 starter), Todd Jones.
Veteran leadership and closer (Jones). Dominant/solid lefty specialist (Eischen or Hammond). Mop up and long relievers/insurance for the starters (Davies/Sosa). 6th,7th, setup man (in no particular order - Reitsma, McBride, Boyer, Devine.) Eischen might cost too much (the Mets are interested in him) but Hammond made his quan a couple years ago so could be had for less than a $1M. He was effective last year as the Pads lefty specialist.
Let the discussion begin….
By Ron Roberts
November 9, 2005 11:25 PM | Link to this
Ya know…
I just LOVE these candy-@ss keyboard-jockies who like to get on here with their creative (read: booger) nicknames and crack spousal abuse jokes.
Real adult. Real manly. Dare ya to crack the joke in front of Bobby Cox.
Or any Braves player. Man up. Try it. Or shut up.
By JohnBonRocker
November 9, 2005 11:46 PM | Link to this
“Man up”…what would you know about that Roberts?…
By bob montag
November 10, 2005 01:01 AM | Link to this
Scherholtz must deal for: 1) a solid starter. Smoltz at his age won’t last another year pitching those innings. (Hudson the only quality starter since Thompson iffy, Ramirez inconsistent, Hampton en absentia and Sosa’s 2005 was a career best. Davies is a sweet story but 10 wins tops from him.) 2) a hitter with pop for the 3-4-5 middle. Francouer not it yet. We are at least one Sheffield caliber hitter short. 3) 5 solid pitchers in the pen who can absorb innings. Bring in 10 from the minors and retreads and let them audition. 4) a true closer. 5) stay under the $80mm bar. Means letting Furky go and either trusting Betimit (I don’t think he can handle the SS job with defensive consistency) or turn it over to a glove guy (hey, remember Rafael B.???)who can scratch out .240 and go with him. A Jesse Garcia type would have done.The bucks are needed more on above #s 1-2 and 4.
By LW28
November 10, 2005 02:29 AM | Link to this
Trade Chipper for “lights-out closer” and bullpen relief. Put WB at third. Resign Furcal at short.
By Ron Roberts
November 10, 2005 08:31 AM | Link to this
OOOOH, JohnBon…
Good one.
By Ron Roberts
November 10, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this
LW28…
I actually likeyour trade idea, except nobody’s going to take Chipper, with his recent injury-riddled seasons and his HUGE salary the next few years.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 10, 2005 08:56 AM | Link to this
Ron Roberts, Full name, first and last, is back. Here we was talking baseball and you come in yesterday with your booger insults and the blog reverted back to what it was when you was here before. Now, LeTwan don’t know how manly you are but LeTwan thinks that you probably are a crazy old cat woman in Jonesboro just tickled to be blogging with somebody. Time to empty the litter box, Ron. Guess you did that with your last post.
By Biff
November 10, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this
It’s been suggested the Astros are pursuing bj Ryan and that he would be used as a setup man to Lidge. IF they sign Ryan, I don’t see how they can afford that high a price for a setup man; and Lidge is arbitration eligible. Might Lidge become available via trade?
By truefan
November 10, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this
You guys are retards. All this booger talk is dumb. I thought i found a good place to talk over offseason moves and you idiots are talking about picking your nose and what not.
First chipper isn’t going anywhere. Would be dumb to move him. The guy plays hard, but as the face of the braves hes going to take the flack for them failing. Let it go. Second lidge, never gonna happen. Nomar, not likely either. Giles, not likely. What is likely is trading a couple of rookies for one or two set up men. Maybe signing a closer. And giving betemit a shot at short. He doesn’t work, then JS will go make another move. But he tried derosa and he’ll try betemit.
By truefan
November 10, 2005 01:18 PM | Link to this
Just read that the yanks are thinking about furcal to play center. Would be interesting.
By Biff
November 10, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this
truefan, I generally agree with a trade for a setup man. But who? And with signing a closer… but who? From what I’ve read, Ryan would cost about $5mil/year…a little steep. Farnsworth, maybe $4 mil. That’s only marginally more than we gave Kolb last year. I do suspect that we’ll spend a few bucks on a closer if JS/BC like the guy. And agreed, WB will probably be at short, but I think we might make a trade for a LF/leadoff type, if we can find one, and let Langerhans come off the bench.
I bring up the Lidge thing because it’s the same process (generally) Houston has followed with Wagner when Lidge came on the scene, now Ryan? But, just a question, not a prediction.
Last, mlb4u.com predicts a trade of Thompson to the Rangers. Anyone know who the rumor says we’d get in return?
By Biff
November 10, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this
God bless the yanks. Furcal certainly has the raw tools to play cf. Doesn’t mean he’d be good at it, but he just might.
By truefan
November 10, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this
What about trying to trade for dunn. Maybe send them marte and johnson.
Also i know he had a bad year last year but we looked at him for a bit. What about danny graves. Huge upside, and could sign with just a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training.
By Biff
November 10, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this
Sorry to be dense, truefan, but who is Dunn? First name and team? Don’s see much upside to Graves, but hey, what do I know?
By Braves fan
November 10, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this
I think there is a misperception that whoever replaces Furcal at SS has to also replace him as the leadoff hitter. It’d be nice to kill two birds and all, but they’d be hamstringing themselves if they only look for someone to do both. I myself feel quite comfortable with Wilson Betemit as the SS. He played outstanding defense everytime he went out there. He’s not Furcal, but that’s why Furcal will be making $8 million a year. So they can look at other positions to fill the leadoff spot. If nothing else changes why not give Langerhans a shot. He’s definitely got the speed. And he showed improved plate discipline as the year went on. Something to note, Bobby Cox has gone with teams that didn’t possess a prototypical leadoff hitter before, so it could happen again. The key is to not blow their budget on Furcal or a free agent replacement for him. The bullpen is what cost them in the postseason (and all year long for that matter). So any money spent should be spent there.
By Paul Hamilton
November 10, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this
If the Braves are talking to the Rangers, only two players I have heard that they are shopping is k.mench and a.soriano. Texas is looking for another starter. Might be looking at a relief pitcher but not sure who.
By Paul Hamilton
November 10, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this
You know this is probably a dumb idea, but why not move chipper to ss and put marte on third? Chipper is being paid well he can take one more for the team. Then if he gets hurt you can throw betemit in there.
By Biff
November 10, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this
Paul, DOB has written that CJ will NOT entertain another position switch. I assume he knows what he’s talking about.
As to the Rangers: Mench doesn’t seem a fit, or Soriano either. But, it’s the KIND of deal that I could see us making if we found the right guy — take on a larger salary in exchange for Thompson, but only for a year, not longterm.
By Ron Roberts
November 10, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this
I like the Thomson-for-Soriano idea, frankly. Takes care of our (pending) SS hole, if you ask me. Plus, it gives us a guy who can hit for average, with power, and good on-field range.
Plus, adding Soriano for Thomson pads our roster salary by about $3 million. Furcal’s re-signing would assuredly cost us more, and I think finding a fourth/fifth starter isn’t so difficult for a pitching-rich franchise like Atlanta’s. Kyle Davies showed flashes of promise, in that realm, last season.
By BB FAN
November 10, 2005 02:52 PM | Link to this
Braves fan, Having Langerhans lead off might not be a bad idea. After the all star break last year, he had a .292 AVG and had a .374 OBP. Not bad at all. I didn’t realize how well he did the 2nd half. Then put Betemit at SS, let Marte back up CJ at 3rd and LaRoche at 1st. It would be worth a shot. Let the young guys play.
Then the Braves can spend all the money they save, from letting Furcal go, on the bullpen. They really need 2 solid middle relievers and a closer.
By Paul Hamilton
November 10, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this
Well I hate to break the news to everyone but Chipper works for the Braves and not the other way around. I can maybe understand him not wanting to move back to the outfield but the infield is a different story. If he cant move one spot over on the infield then I would sit him on the bench. Although we all know bobby cox will NEVER do that. Andy Marte was just ranked again for next year as one of the top 20 best prospects in baseball at #10. We need to trade this kid while he is hot and get some good prospects or players for him if he isnt going to play.
By Biff
November 10, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this
Ron, I agree with your thinking in general. Just don’t quite see how Soriano would fit the bill. He’s a 2B…don’t know if he’s played any SS or not; and a free swinger, not really a leadoff man, though he does have some speed.
Davies would be okay with me at #5. The problem is if someone goes down (which is likely), not much to back them up.
By Biff
November 10, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this
Good post, BB Fan. Paul, I’m not arguing about CJ, just reporting what I read. You’re basically switching Marte in for Betemit; not sure that’s worth all the angst it would cause, and I’m pretty sure CJ doesn’t have the range any more to be a good SS (if he ever did). I can hear the knees cracking already.
By Paul Hamilton
November 10, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this
oh and on Furcal, he is not coming back. The yankees are seriously discussing making him their center fielder, and it sounds as if the red sox will jump in if the lose Damon. The article i just read on fox sports says contract years are up to 5 and now may go to 6 year deal. No way the Braves will go 5 or 6 years. If the yankees jump in this, there is no telling what kind of offer he is going to get. Just the yankees, mets and red sox fighting over it should push the price tag even higher. Time for braves and braves fans to move on to addressing our other issues.
By Pocahorner
November 10, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this
Biff: Soriano came up through the Yankees farm system at SS but once he got to the major there was some guy name Jeter already there. I don’t think JS would make a deal for a rent-a-player which Soriano would be. If the rumors are true about Thomson to the Rangers for (fill in the blank) it would probably be a reliever and a high prospect or two. I hope JS isn’t thinking about trading for DeRo.
By Paul Hamilton
November 10, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Soriano, the braves could trade giles and thompson for him. I think the rangers have a young 2b coming up. Both giles and thompson would only be one year rentals. Although this doesnt address our bullpen so not sure why J.S. would really be discussing this. Who knows, Angels and Dodgers both have pitching availabe and have other needs that we can fill.
By Biff
November 10, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this
Like I said, I sort of CAN see a ‘rental’ player, but it would need to address the leadoff spot, either in LF or SS. Or a closer for a year or two while Devine develops. Anyway, I just read that we may be dealing with Texas (with Thompson), so didn’t mean to start a dumb rumor….
By David O'Brien
November 10, 2005 05:37 PM | Link to this
People, you really, really need to take things with a grain of salt. Sometimes you otherwise seemingly astute fans can be so gullible. I mean, I’m simply amazing at how some guy in a dark room somewhere, completely out of touch with reality, can post a rumor and by the time it’s relayed by three people, it becomes “I read we’re definitely trading Thomson to Rangers” or “Yankees are seriously talking about Furcal in center field.” Wow. I mean, use your brains on some of this stuff, apply a filter.
Furcal’s agent is NOT talking to Yankees about playing CF. Everyone at GM meetings is incredulous today that that rumor got printed. It was said as a joke last night by an agent, and a reporter heard it and ran with it. It’s a JOKE, folks. Nothing to it. That’s why the rumor mill has gotten so ridiculous these days. There was absolutely nothing to it. He’s not playing center field. Period.
And as for the Thomson to Rangers thing _ well, it’d be interesting if either the Rangers beat writers (whom I just talked to about it) knew something about it, or I did. But I guess we’re not as informed as those folks at MLB4U or whatever the the site is that ran that rumor today. Never mind that that site has no one at the meetings. No, don’t let that stop the rumor. Have fun. Discuss it. Soriano for Thomson. It ain’t gonna happen, but discuss it and figure out where Soriano is going to hit next year for the Braves.
Again, it’s not going to happen. But so what? What about Teixeira? Nobody wants to bother restarting that ridiculous rumor from a year ago?
By David O'Brien
November 10, 2005 05:40 PM | Link to this
Wait, in case Jeff is reading. Let me fix couple of grammar errors from that hasty post. Should have been “I’m amazed” instead of amazing, and “either of the Rangers beat writers” instead of either the Rangers.
Ok, got that fixed for the professor.
By Biff
November 10, 2005 06:08 PM | Link to this
DOB, I guess I started the rumor on a possible Braves/Texas deal. Thanks for clearing it up. And, I think I framed it in the form of a question, asking if anyone knew anything…not as a hot rumor.
However, If the AJC would provide a resource for updates on what’s going aside from your entries here (which ARE appreciated, btw) maybe we’d be scouring the web less and reading good info.
Anyway, I DO appreciate your comments and take your point, if a little defensively.
By Biff
November 10, 2005 06:18 PM | Link to this
DOB, here is my question that started the whole thing about Soriano (and I didn’t even MENTION him):
Last, mlb4u.com predicts a trade of Thompson to the Rangers. Anyone know who the rumor says we’d get in return?
I don’t really see where that question merits attacking me as living in a dark basement, which of course I do, but that’s not the point.
What’s the harm in a question being raised and it being discussed?
By David O'Brien
November 10, 2005 06:29 PM | Link to this
Biff, didn’t mean to attack. Sorry, man. It’s been a long day of waiting for calls and standing outside conference center waiting for GMs to emerge.
Anyway, I should also tell you, there definitely COULD be something to Thomson rumor to Texas, because Showalter loves him and would like to have him back. So let’s make that clear _ I’m not saying it won’t happen.
But the Soriano part _ no. He’s gonna make more than $9 million as a five-plus arbitration guy this year, and he’s led the majors in second-base errors something like three of the last four years. Not a Braves fit.
Mench, now that makes some more sense because he makes relatively little as a first-year arbitration guy. But Braves have a lot of good young outfielders, so they’d have to move one or more to create a spot. Could happen, not saying it wouldn’t.
As for living in a basement _ hey, nothing wrong with that, dude. I didn’t mean to insult you. I was talking about someone somewhere else, though, hypothetically in the dark basement stirring things up, and saying someone hear had read that person’s post.
Anyway, OK, gotta do some work. But again, didn’t mean to attack you.
By Biff
November 10, 2005 06:34 PM | Link to this
Cool, DOB; I’ll get off my high horse. But did you hear the one about Chipper for Manny?
Thanks!
By Eric Webb
November 10, 2005 07:27 PM | Link to this
DOB Do you think we would go after a power SP if we end up not signing Furcal? What about closers? Seems like we could use one of everything.
Eric
By KneeJerk
November 10, 2005 07:45 PM | Link to this
Do we have a Braves hat big enough for Mench’s head? He’s got the biggest gourd in the game. How about Eric Byrnes for LF/leadoff?
By Stew
November 10, 2005 08:06 PM | Link to this
The time has come for Chuck James to be a part of the rotation and Joey Devine to be the closer. It would be better to throw the bucks on a 98 mile an hour heater like A.J. Burnett. The rotation would then be Smoltz(if healthy), Hudson, Burnett, James, and Thomson. As far as the bullpen is concerned, we only need middle relievers.
By KneeJerk
November 10, 2005 09:04 PM | Link to this
A.J Burnett = Million dollar arm and ten cent head.
By eric webb
November 11, 2005 01:11 AM | Link to this
Hey—does any1 have ESPN INSIDER OR KNOW A PASSWORD?
GO BRAVES
By Eric
November 11, 2005 01:13 AM | Link to this
DOB—DO YOU HAVE INSIDER??? IF SO…WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPREAD THE WEALTH??
By BB FAN
November 11, 2005 07:14 AM | Link to this
I just read that Javier Vazquez requested on a trade from the D-Backs. He would be a great SP to acquire. The downside is he makes 12 million a year. If the D-Backs picked up some of his contract, it might work. I always thought he was a very good picther when he played for Montreal. There were always rumors about the Braves getting him back then but it never happened. It likely won’t this year either, but I can wish.
By Paul Hamilton
November 11, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this
Well D’Obrien I read the information about the yankees and furcal talking about playing center field on fox sports. They are pretty big network, not some guy in the dark basement. It was also on the front page of msn. I guess journalist just print anything they can whether its true or not these days. It did specifically say that the yankees talked to furcals agent about playing center field for them, and that they were very interested in him because they could use a lead off hitter as well as a center fielder. I didnt write this story Ken Rosenthal their senior baseball writer reported it. Here is the link http://msn.foxsports.com/story/5070298 Don’t go blasting off on us, why dont you walk down to ken rosenthal and ask him why a major network would print what you say is his trash. As far as the Rangers deal I gave mench and soriano as the only possible guys I have heard they are moving. I cant think of anyone in their bullpen that we would want. You yourself confirmed in your last post that there could be a little something going on. This blog is supposed to be fun so I dont think there is anything wrong with speculating on who for who in a trade. I think we all know the braves are not going to trade for soriano, but nothing wrong with throwing ideas around.
By Pocahorner
November 11, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this
As I sit here in my office, sunshine blasting through the window, I read an article in the Tampa Tribune that stated:
“While the Rays received several inquiries about closer Danys Baez and outfielder Aubrey Huff at the GM meetings, shortstop Julio Lugo drew the most intense interest from the Braves, who are not expected to re-sign shortstop Rafael Furcal.”
As DOB stated in his opening comments, this move makes sense but does have some issues. I agree. But if a RP is thrown into mix (Baez perhaps?) this could help address two of our biggest holes. Of course, if this rumor is true…..
By Pocahorner
November 11, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this
Vasquez always seemed to have the Braves number when he was an Expo.
He’s expressed his desire to be traded to an East Coast team so he could be closer to his family in Puerto Rico which puts the Braves in the mix. But he’ll ‘earn’ $11.5 million in 2006 and $12.5 million in 2007. A lot of quan.
By Pocahorner
November 11, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this
From MLB.com…
“According to reports from the GM meetings, there are rumors that a potential trade may send Juan Pierre to the Cubs for Corey Patterson.”
Not what I call a blockbuster trade but better the Cubbies than us I say.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this
I say we make some sort of trade for Lugo and Beaz and have Lugo and Betemit platoon at SS.
By Biff
November 11, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this
I don’t see Vasquez as an upgrade over anyone we have now. He eats up innings, and can strike guys out, but the ERA is well over 4 the last two years and gives up the long ball bigtime. And a lot of quan indeed (wonder if that word will make it into the dictionary someday.)
By JohnBonRocker
November 11, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this
Is Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb available? thoughts? comments?…
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this
We don’t need Vasquez. Again, starting pitching is not the problem. The bullpen is. You can’t expect the starter to go 8 and 9 innings every game. You can have all they quality starters you want. If you don’t have a good bullpen you aren’t going to win or at least win when it matters. Haven’t the last six years taught us anything?
By A Lifer
November 11, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this
ok, today is friday. DOB, we gonna start hearing some news now that any team can make an offer to any FA. what about more news on trades now?
By BB FAN
November 11, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this
Vazquez does make too much, but I think he would be an upgrade. The Yankees and D-Backs have horrible stadiums for picthers. Especially Arizona. But Vazquez is not worth 2 years and 24 million. If Arizona eats a good portion then maybe. But it’s doubtful.
Lugo would be a good replacement for Furcal. I mentioned him over a week ago in the other blog. But the more I think about it, letting Betemit play would not be that bad either. I think he deserves a chance. And they could use that money to improve the picthing. Especially the relief pitching.
By A Lifer
November 11, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this
anyone ever post a password for espn insider?
By Biff
November 11, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this
I agree, BB Fan. Don’t really understand all the talk about starting pitching, unless maybe if we are going to deal Thompson; even then, I think Davies moves up to No. 5. Another starter would be nice given the injury bug we seem to have had (can’t have too much pitching, they say) but to me is 2nd or 3rd priority.
I still don’t understand why we’re not (to my knowledge) in the hunt for BJ Ryan. He’s proven, relatively young. Not cheap, but I just don’t see how we can skimp on the bullpen after the blowup last year. If we plug Betemit in at SS, seems it would fit easily in the Furcal salary slot; and leave some $$ for another midreliever or two (maybe even Farnsworth, which I’d like to see as setup guy if possible…but that may be too expensive).
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this
I agree about Ryan. We should go after him and allow Devine to ease into the role either as the setup man or keep Farnsworth as the setup man and have Devine be our Qualls from Houston. I mean to have Devine come in during the 7th inning or to get a out in 8th.
By Biff
November 11, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this
Uh, I meant, I agree Robert…
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this
Starting pitching is down on the priority list. We need to solve the SS problem, get a solid leadoff hitter, and a bullpen that can actually record an out before blowing the lead or letting the game get too far out of hand.
By BB FAN
November 11, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this
I was all for getting a lead off guy but another blogger, I think Braves fan, mentioned Langerhans to lead off. It might not be a bad idea. Last year after the all star break , he had a .292 AVG and had a .374 OBP. Better than Furcal. Langerhans won’t steal many bases, but he has doubles power (22 in 326 at bats) and a good OBP. That’s what really counts for a lead off hitter.
Then put Betemit at SS, let Marte back up CJ at 3rd and LaRoche at 1st. It would save a lot of money for the bullpen. The Braves would be able to afford BJ Ryan or Gordon then. And they would have enough to get 2 solid middle relief guys too. They might want to take a chance on Octavio Dotel. He was great in the set up role with Houston. There are a lot of quality middle inning guys available.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this
Paul Hamilton: Like I said, an agent said it as a joke and a reporter wrote it, believing it to be valid. Let me ask: Did any of the NY papers pick up on it yesterday, ask the Yankees about it or run with it? No, because there’s NOTHING to it. It’s dead. I think it was even taken off the site shortly after it was posted _ and it was posted at The Sporting News, to begin with, which is who Ken writes for.
Lifer: You say, “well, it’s Friday, DOB, are we going to start hearing some news?” as though I’m withholding something or as though we owe it to everyone to start making up things because, well, darnit, it’s friday and it’s time. Man, if I have something that is reliably sourced, don’t you think I’d write it in the paper? Believe me, I would. But as I’ve said, our new attribution policies and the like don’t allow me just to write any rumors I hear in the newspaper. Sorry, I’m not risking my job to please you. Nothing personal.
Now, couple things I did hear that I know to be reliable: Two names mentioned as possible Furcal replacements if and when he leaves: Adam Everett and one we’ve already discussed, Julio Lugo. These are names the Braves have actually discussed, as opposed to the Sorianos and Garciaparras and all the other sexy names being thrown around here in fantasy land.
Also, if you can find Betemit’s Dominican stats, take a look. He’s raking in winter ball, absolutely hitting like crazy _ well over .300, with four or five homers in under 50 at-bats and a grand slam the other night. He may be increasing his chances of getting the SS job, though that still leaves Braves without prototypical leadoff man. That’s why Everett and Lugo have been discussed, because they’ve actually batted leadoff (though not particularly well, at least not for sustained period).
OK, gotta catch a flight back to Atlanta. Gonna talk to agent before I get on plane, to see if Cubs have made an offer yet. But might not have anything until I get back to Atlanta tonight.
By Joe
November 11, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this
You’re right Paul! Let’s just have fun!!! I heard thru this guy who cleans toilets at Turner Field that the Braves are very close to dismissing their entire roster except for Chipper (3B), Giles (2B), Andruw (CF), and Francoeur (RF). We are also going to keep Smoltz (SP), Hudson (SP), Ramirez (SP), Thomson (SP) and Sosa (SP) and Farnsworth (RP). By freeing up all that money by getting rid of everyone else on the team, we’re going to sign Hideki Matsui to pay LF, Soriano to play SS (even though he’s the worst fielder in the game), Konerko to pay 1B, and Ausmus to play C. Also we’re going to sign Hoffman and Wagner so we have a 7th, 8th, and 9th guy.
That’s going to the whole team. I think it’s a gamble, but if everyone stays healthy, then we should be fine. Go Braves!
By Biff
November 11, 2005 12:38 PM | Link to this
Based on DOB’s report, I HOPE we don’t deal for Lugo or Everett. Betemit’s got a great future… so we sit him, or trade him, because we need a mediocre leadoff hitter? I would rather see us experiment with WB or Langerhans at leadoff. If neither worked out, keep in mind that Pete Orr can play 2B, SS, 3B and LF, and probably RF. So you could ALMOST rotate him through the lineup to spell the regulars, and bat him leadoff pretty often (would make for an interesting year for Pete.
By BB FAN
November 11, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this
O’Brien, You have been extremely hostile to us bloggers for discussing “possible” solutions for the Braves. That is what fans do in the off season. Some of them may be total Fantasy and never happen. But some of the ideas that are tossed around here are actually decent. In fact, I mentioned trading Gryboski for a lower level minor leaguer at the deadline. A week later, it happened. I mentioned getting Lugo on Nov 2nd at 10:33 AM on your McDowwll move Unconventional blog. Now the Braves have had talks about trading for him. Now I am not suggesting that JS read about them here, but lighten up a little. We are fans discussing players we would want the Braves to go after…fantasy or not.
Your comments to Lifer was a little un called for. I don’t think he was saying you are holding out on us. It’s just that on Friday at 12AM, teams can start making offers to free agents. So things might start happening.
Now in your defense O’Brien, I know some of these bloggers rag on you a lot. Too much. So that might be the reason for the hostility. But it is a blog for fans to throw ideas around.
By Biff
November 11, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this
I suspect the reason DOB gets testy is that he’s probably speed-reading these things and trying to hammer out a report during a very hectic time. I’ve felt the “sting” of it too…but we’ll blog on, I guess. I just wish he’d save some of the shots for the ‘booger’ and ‘nose-pick’ guys, instead of us just try to talk Braves baseball.
But it’s all good.
By BB FAN
November 11, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this
Biff, I’ll have to agree with you. All of the stupid jokes about that stuff is irratating. I blog here to have adult conversation about the Braves and baseball. Like most wives, mine is not interested all that much in talking sports. At least she enjoys going to games though. Anyway, like I’ve said before, when the AJC charged for the blogging, it was not as bad. You still had some of the personal attacks, but none of the nose picking and CJ is dumb jokes.
By Ron Roberts
November 11, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this
Hey O’Brien, Sounds like you got a booger stuck sideways…oh did you hear about Booger Cox pullin’ this big ol’ glob of snot and mucous, about a quart, out of his nose and saying, “Biff? Biff is that you?…Letwat and Carroded will love this one…huh? Booger…
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 01:18 PM | Link to this
Ron, ease up on LaTwan. He is just having a little fun. I, too, get a little irritated with the Chipper bashing and Cox stories but they are funny.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this
I say all of the childish and immature remarks should be taken for what they are, which is toilet humor. Toilet humor can be funny but not meant to be taken seriously. I think anyone who has watched Chipper knows he is not stupid. As for Bobby’s nose picking, well, the truth is the truth. He does it but the constant jokes can get tiresome.
By Hy Anenzide
November 11, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this
Get used to Laroche at first. Several years ago Bobby made the comment that defensively he could play in the majors right now. He’s got a good swing and I like his bat control. He’s still growing into his game. When his offensive skills catch up, what you will have at first is a perinnial all star with 25/30 hrs 100 rbi averages for the next 10-14 years. He’ll save 15-20 games a year with his glove as well.
2nd base. Marcus is the best 2nd baseman in Atlanta history.I love his game. Great attitude and spirit, intangibles required by winners. One of the best doubles hitters in the league and doing it consistantly. Made himself into a solid defense player of above average ability with Hubbard’s mentoring. He’s the man at 2nd.
SS. Furcal would be my choice here, but I think he’s gone. The quick fix is the Marte-Betemit carousel until one of the youngsters are ready in a year or two. No holes here and only a slight drop off. How many times do you need the cannon arm to make the difference in a game? Consistant play defensively will keep the Braves from a weakness here. At the plate, the position will hit .270ish and knock in 60 or so, not bad at all. It also gives the Braves another year of Marte and measure him for subsequent years.
3rd- Chipper spelled by Marte. I don’t understand the Chipper bashers. Personally I’ve enjoyed watching him over his career. Marte spelling him gives more infield ab’s for Bobby to evaluate.
Catcher- I like Estrada, a real pro. Which makes him great trade bait. McCann is the Braves present & future. He’s a sponge around the Braves star pitchers and has learned (few shake offs) how to call a good game. I like him as a target, his awareness, and a better than average arm. Good bat, looks like a clutch hitter to me. He’s not going anywhere for another 10 years. Back ups are Pena and others in the minors. I’d love to have Eddie Perez on the roster as a solid back up. A great clubhouse player too.
Outfield, Jones & Francouer are going to be there so long they might want to consider buying furniture. Left field. Langerhans didn’t get the credit he deserved and earned from his play last year. Defensively, few were better. Good eye, bat, a great future for him. I honestly think it’ll ultimately be a decision of him or Marte in left, unless Chipper’s injuries keep Marte at 3rd. Johnson, trade bait.
Starting Pitching: Smoltz, Hudson, Sosa, Thompson and Ramirez. I’m ok with this staff. Injuries hold the cards here. The loss of Leo won’t have that much effect if any. I like McDowell.
Middle relief, set-up men & Closer. This is where McDowell will earn his keep. I loved Leo, and will miss him. The fact remains the Braves bullpen failed, and not just last season. Who is responsible for that failure? Let’s see what the new pitching coach does with what he’s given.
Bench: Franco,Orr, Betemit/Marte, Johnson & the back up catchers are/will be a solid bench again. The Braves always seem ok -good here.
Here’s 2006: Furcal & Farnsworth(as a set-up man, 8th inning)both resigned.
Billy Wagner from Phil for Estrada,Kelly Johnson and either Boyer or McBride.
Devine stays in AAA all year, let him pitch.
15 no nix in 2006
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
Hy, I agree with your assessment. I think that having Devine pitch a year in AAA would be the ideal situation. I think you’re right about Langerhans and McCann. I also agree about what you said about Giles, but with that being said I think he is expendable if it means getting some quality relief pitching and another impact offensive player. I love Giles heart but he has to stop thinking he is Jeff Kent. He is not a home run hitter but a doubles hitter and he killed us in the Houston series with those exaggerated big swings for the fences.
By Paul Hamilton
November 11, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this
Hey Joe I dont understand why you seem to want to make fun of my “have fun” discussing the offseason. Soriano is a hot topic on alot of the websites, espn, cbssportsline, foxsports, and I was just responding to people talking about braves talking with rangers. I dont understand why that is such a bad thing on here, we are talking baseball. As for D.O’brien, lighten up a little I like reading your reports and have never said that reporting accurate information is bad. I didnt critisize what you said about the story being totally false, but I do take offense to you acting like we are supposed to know every little detail of what is fact and fiction. I still believe 100% that furcal is gone. The story is still up on foxsports because I just checked it. I didnt read it on the sporting news i read it on foxsports and i also gave the link. We are not agents or gm’s so when a big story comes out on one of the big sports sites I look at it. Fox Sports is NOT some home run website by Joe Blow. How am I supposed to determine what is fact and fiction??? Like I said why dont you take it up with Ken Rosenthal about writing false information instead of blasting us here on the blog. I have msn as my homepage and baseball is a hot topic so when the headline on msn says yanks seriously considering furcal i dont immediately say hey that is load of crap. I live in atlanta discussing the braves not new york. Sorry but i read the ajc not the new york times or post and I look at espn, fox sports, and cbssportsline for sports information. Once again I think its great that the ajc is holding you guys to a standard of trying to report accurate information. Dont get on here and blast us for talking about possible trade scenarious when you know damn well that we are fans, I dont have inside contacts in baseball to know what is fact/fiction and I dont get on here to just purposely spread stupid false information!!! Its a blog we are supposed to discuss baseball on here.
By Biff
November 11, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this
I don’t agree on Devine…let him pitch middle relief in Atlanta unless he just can’t get it done. He’s a college draftee… not a baby (not that you’re saying he is…), and will get plenty of work in the 6th, 7th and 8th. Plus, we need the arm there.
And I don’t know that Marte is a shortstop; I think his pt will come at 3rd, maybe some 1b; but maybe you know something I don’t.
Wagner’s a FA, Hy, and would cost an estimated $10 per for at least 4 years (per CBS sportsline). I want a closer, but think he’s a little old and a lot expensive. Still very, very good, but I wouldn’t want to commit that kind of money and time to him.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this
I would only say let Devine pitch in AAA to get his confidence back because it has got to be shaky at best after the idiotic use of him in the playoffs. I just think that you let him pitch in the minors and overpower some people to get his groove back. Now, if he has to be used on the major league roster than so be it. I am just saying that if we could afford to leave him in the minors for a year than that would be the ideal situation. As for Marte, I was not impressed with him when he had his chance this year. I think if it comes down between him and Betemit staying then Marte should go.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this
I’d say this about LaRoche. He has this upcoming year to show what he is worth. I have no problem with a guy being laid back but sometimes he acts as though he is not interested in being out there.
By Biff
November 11, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this
Robert, I guess that’s what spring training is for… I agree, if Devine’s shellshocked (which I really doubt), AAA is the place for him. I hope not. Marte is the one who might benefit from another year in the minors, to get some ab’s because he wont’ get many behind Chipper, barring injury. You’re right, he did nothing at the ML level but is a great prospect - among the highest rated in the game, and the time will come when we need to replace CJ. If Marte is eventually as good as advertised, that would be a perfect transition.
By Ron Roberts
November 11, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this
AJC.COM STAFF
Somebody’s logging on with my name and e-mail address and posting. You guys need to fix this. This is the kinda trash that comes to your blogs when you make it free, unfortunately.
This “Booger” jack@ss neesd to be blocked, frankly.
By Hy Anenzide
November 11, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this
Of course you are right about Wagner, I don’t know what this side of Lidge I was thinking. My point, however poorly I explained it was the Braves have the packaged fodder to pull the trigger on a big name trade. Of the entire roster, there is only one position that could make a difference of how many games are played in October of 2006. That position is closer. I’ll leave the cap problems to Mr. S.
My point on leaving Devine in AAA is to give him every day exp,and get “hungry” to get back to the show. The experts say he has a fantasic arm and natural stuff. I honestly do not believe his psyche was damaged at all with his experiences last year. We Braves fans have been slammed with head situations all too oftrn. Remeber Wohlers? Great then couldn’t throw strikes. Rocker, well he was insane, but even the man I consider to be the greatest Atlanta pitcher of all time, John Smoltz was a head case at one time. So hopefully we are all just gun shy with young Mr. Devine and soon he’ll be out there as the Braves closer for a dozen years or so.
I still want to see a big name closer signed/traded for for 2006/2007.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this
Like I said if Devine pitched in the majors I don’t think that is such a bad situation. I don’t, however, feel comfortable with him being the closer right now. You’re probably right about Marte. Maybe another year of AAA seasoning will make him better. But, unfortunately for Marte, I think Chipper has got a good five years left in him. Would you be willig to trade Giles if it meant getting some quality bullpen help?
By Carla
November 11, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this
The Tampa paper says the Braves have inquired about Lugey. I think it’s a mistake, but they’ve never listened to me before….why start now?
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this
If I may, I would love to sneak in on this conversation… I have said for a while that I wouldn’t mind seeing Chipper at 1B in 2006. It’s less strenuous on his aging body and would open up a spot for Marte. I find it intriguing that in a year (2005) when JS recognized that Chipper’s return to 3B would block his top prospect, he chose not to have Marte learn to play LF or 1B at AAA, which had been discussed. As far as Laroche, I like him when he’s hot, I hate him when he’s cold. He’s been so streaky in both his first two years that he gives me grey hair.
By Biff
November 11, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this
Yeah, I’d trade Giles, and a catcher (we have 4 that a lot teams would love to have), and I’d trade Kelly Johnson, John Thompson, H. Ramirez. Don’t get me wrong, I like all these guys and am not trying to push them out the door but I agree with that closer is priority 1. Followed closely by setup man as priority 2. Someone said it a little while ago; without a bullpen, not much else matters.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this
Hy, I agree about the trade possbilities. I think the only players that are absolutely exempt from trade are: Smoltz, Hudson, Chipper, Francoeur, and maybe Andruw. We have an abundance of talent at almost every position. It’s time to use that talent to fill the holes and get this team back to the WS.
By Biff
November 11, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this
Voice, I’ve read that suggestion in other blogs too, moving CJ to 1b. Seems sensible, but O’Brien jumped in and said it just ain’t gonna happen, that Chipper is not willing to make a move and the Braves aren’t interested in forcing him. I’m not arguing it one way or another…that’s just what I’ve read.
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this
Here’s a question: How much of Hampton’s 2006 salary is covered by insurance, and is that amount factored back in when discussing the $80mil “cap”?
By Pocahorner
November 11, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this
I believe Marte has a few more options left. Betemit has none, so if the Braves don’t deal for a SS/resign Furcal the job would be Betemit’s to lose. If he had to, Marte could spend another season in AAA. I said this earlier, Furcal won the job in 2000 coming from AA (or was it A?), so it’s not out of the realm of possibility that Hernandez, Pena, Escobar (who tore up A ball last year) or someone else could establish themselves as the new starter in Spring Training.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this
I agree with trying to get Chipper to play 1B. I think Chipper would be open to it. I think he didn’t enjoy LF because playing outfield is a lot different from playing in the infield.
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this
I understand Chipper’s desire to stay at 3B. It’s a comfort zone thing. I, personally, believe he continues to play the position quite well. Marte is not a SS and likely not a LF, either. He’s most likely trade bait. Does anyone think Langerhans could ramp his game up enough to possibly lead-off? He’s certainly got the speed, does he have the discipline? Or is he most likely trade bait, as well?
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this
Poc… Escobar is definitely the future at SS, but JS will most likely keep that spot warm for him for another couple of years. If any of the other youngsters you mentioned make a push, it could be Pena - slick with the leather, showed flashes with the wood. It’s nice to have that problem, huh?
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this
I think Langerhans is the LF of the present unless a trade could be made to get a better quality LF. I personally like Langerhans and hopes he stays. As for batting leadoff, I’m not convinced he can do that.
By Hy Anenzide
November 11, 2005 03:10 PM | Link to this
We all seem to agree basically on a a dominant closer. I would hope the Braves can pull it off without getting into the core everyday eight of the jones boys, Francouer, Furcal (keep the faith), Giles, LaRoche, McCann & Langerhans. Seems I heard somewhere that Marcus was Bobby’s favorite player. I think it was right after his collision with that giant Cubs pitcher (Prior?), Giles was taken to the hospital where his head x-rays revealed nothing. One of the player was asked if Giles was acting goofy and the answer was, “I can’t tell”. How can you not love the guy?
Voice of Reason, there was a shortlived experiment with Marte in left last spring. Bobby pulled that plug in a hurry. At the time he said he was concentrating too much on that and not his hitting. From what I have read this guy is supposed to be the second coming of Rico Carty.
By Biff
November 11, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this
If Marte is trade bait, it better be for a very big fish, IMHO. Every rating I’ve seen puts him in the top 10, most in the top 5, prospects in all of baseball. Someone suggested earlier Langerhans as leadoff; made a pretty good case based on his 2nd half numbers last year. I won’t restate it, but scroll back and you’ll see it.
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this
Robert… I agree with you on Lang. I like his game and think it will only get better. It is pretty much a certainty, though, that JS won’t meet the expected asking price for Furcal. Betemit is a good 7 or 8 and the most likely replacement at SS. Let’s face it though. As much as we discuss likey scenarios, JS is famous for pulling some surprising move out of his nether places.
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this
My kid’s bus just arrived and my short window of sanity is rapidly closing… Thanks for letting me jump in. Adios-
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this
I heard someone say earlier that mabye we should try to acquire Adam Everett. I think that would be a huge mistake. Everett can’t hit leadoff and he really does not hit well at all. I say either we get Lugo or hand it over to Betemit. The Braves need to make some big splashes this offseason. We have the talent so why not use that talent to get needed help. I think the biggest mistake JS could do is go out and get “veteran” players. The team is young but talented and ready to continue the division title success. The days of getting the Jordans and Mondesis need to be over.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this
Where is LaTwan? Did they scare you off?
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this
Keep the everyday lineup with Betemit at SS, shoehorn Lang in at lead-off (with a prayer), and make the splash in the ‘pen. Concentrate on that horrendous ‘pen. Later, gotta go-
By Chop Chop
November 11, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this
LeTwan’s been on Chop Chick’s blog, Robert.
See? I’m trying to bring people together.
By KneeJerk
November 11, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this
I brought up a name of a guy a while back to play left and bat leadoff. A great hustle player…Eric Byrnes. comments?
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this
Eric Byrnes would be great. But, I don’t know if Bobby could handle him. He can be a little out there.
By Pocahorner
November 11, 2005 04:26 PM | Link to this
People…helping people…..are the luckiest people…OK. I’ll stop.
Finally some sanity has hit the blog. Let Wilson play. Try and make a big FA splash and/or strengthen the bullpen without losing our best prospects. Buy LaRoache Tom Emanski’s “The Mechanics of the Major League Swing” DVD (you know it’s endorsed by Fred McGriff!)
The Braves shouldn’t make desparate moves this winter. They already have a lot of pieces in place.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this
I agree. I would go as far to say, if the only moves the Braves make are in the bullpen they will be just fine. They need to make some big splashes but in the bullpen.
By Pocahorner
November 11, 2005 04:33 PM | Link to this
Well, improving the food at the Ted would be nice too. But only after they find some help in the pen.
By Biff
November 11, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this
Poco, I think you’re losing it, but that’s okay.
Just a “sidebar”. IF the Braves stick with WB at SS, consider this lineup:
1B - Laroche, developed in the Braves organization 2B - Giles, ditto SS - Betemit, ditto 3B - CJ, ditto RF - Franceour, ditto CF - AJ, ditto LF - Langerhans, ditto C - McCann, ditto
I wonder if any ML team has fielded a full starting lineup without a player developed from another system?
By Robert (Justice is the best)
November 11, 2005 04:38 PM | Link to this
Other than the Devil Rays probably not.
By Pocahorner
November 11, 2005 05:10 PM | Link to this
Biff: Yes, it Friday and the Happy Hour bell just rang.
Devil Rays, maybe the Royals, but a total homegrown lineup probably hasn’t happened much since FA era began. I vaguely remember some broadcaster saying that almost every year, the Braves would have the most homegrown talent on their 24 man roster than anyone in MLB. But don’t quote me on that.
I hear a pint calling my name…..
By Biff
November 11, 2005 05:21 PM | Link to this
I doubt the Devil Rays were ever completely home-grown, since they started as a group of expansion draftees. But haven’t looked it up.
But, I really don’t mean to sidetrack the discussion… just thought it an interesting question. Think I’ll go over to Pocahomer’s; he’s serving beverages, I hear.
By joec
November 11, 2005 05:21 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves should trade Marte to the Dodgers for Yhency Brozoban, they used him as a closer while Gagne was out. Also if Furcal leaves how about using the money for Brian Giles and move Langerhans to first base and put LaRaoch out there for trade bait. I would thinhk Boston, Toronto, Baltimore, San Diego and San Fransico would be interseted in LaRoach
By KneeJerk
November 11, 2005 05:25 PM | Link to this
I am excited about the prospects of 2006. We have several pieces in place and we know where we exactly what we need to improve our team. Bullpen, SS, possibly LF. A lot different than last year when we were looking at the prospects of BJ and Mondesi in the OF. Our biggest hurdle in the NL will be Houston, not St. Louis.
The Marlins will disappear as they had a large payroll and disappointed. Our challenge in the East will be from the Mets. On a side note… a popular area of discussion is would you rather win 14 straight divisions and 1 WS or win 2 Wildcards and 2 WS. Without a doubt, I’d take 14/1 over 2/2. The Marlins will be a joke again. The fans here in Fl will be looking at the ownership dumping the team the way they did in ‘98. It’s nice going into EVERY year knowing you at least have a CHANCE to win it all.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 11, 2005 05:29 PM | Link to this
Hey Robert, thanks for asking. LeTwan has been posting with ChopChick. Chop Chop brought me over here. Thanks, Chop.
Seems risky to LeTwan for JS to wait for Furcal to leave to make the moves he needs to make to help this team. JS knows right now whether Furcal will be back.
Unless he can pitch seven innings though, or hold a lead through eight, Furcal can be replaced. Sure wish he could stay, but it doesn’t appear to be in the cards. LeTwan looked at Pena’s stats and sadly, he’s not close to ready for the bigs. Wouldn’t be surprised to see somebody jump over him. LeTwan sees no problem at all with WB at short.
Raisins, I re-read your post yesterday and you made some good points. Houston was a buzz saw with all that good pitching. But the Sox were hot at the right time. How does a team get hot (and focused) at playoff time?
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 05:57 PM | Link to this
Hi, LeTwan.. just jumping in briefly before feeding the family. Good point about the Sox. And you’re right, JS knows exactly where he stands at SS.
Joec… Langerhans is a better fundamental outfielder than even AJ - not as brilliant, but better than most Major Leaguers. Moving him to 1st makes no sense. Even though Laroche really drives me nuts, he has his moments. When he’s in a groove, he’s pretty darn good.
As I said before, the everyday lineup, with WB at SS, is not that bad if Lang could possibly lead-off. The rotation is relatively solid, when all are healthy. There are some good young arms like James and Lerew (and I haven’t jumped off the Devine bandwagon, either) that could help. The obvious void is at set-up and closer. JS should concentrate all of his considerable resources and talents toward that goal. A semi-reliable ‘pen means Smoltz might save some fuel for Sept. and Oct.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 11, 2005 06:03 PM | Link to this
LeTwan keeps reading about LaRoche’s brother. Sounds like he is going to be very, very good. We have a LaRoche of our own and LeTwan can’t get down on him so bad. He hit a slam, then ran like an old lady later when we needed a run. He sure has a nice swing. Reminds LeTwan of Dave Justice with that big sweep. If he improves and can avoid that horrible slump we may be set at 1B for a long time.
BBFan, LeTwan is going to lay off the Chipper jokes. They seem to be messing you up but LeTwan means no harm. Once, the Vice President of the United States spelled “potato” with an “e” on the end and was forever labeled a dummy. Now, Chipper’s done a lot worse than that but he can probably spell potato just fine. Heck, he probably has a kid named Potato. Oh, crap, there I go again. Sorry. LeTwan did hear Chipper say during an interview that he would not change positions again. He moved for Vinny and Vinny was big time at 3B. I don’t see him moving for a near-rookie. He catches the balls that are hit at him and he still throws well. A good ss will help his defense.
By Biff
November 11, 2005 06:07 PM | Link to this
LeTwan, I’m a “purist” and like to see the blog stick somewhere close to “on topic.” But I have to admit, “he probably has a kid named Potato” is a pretty funny line.
Check you guys tomorrow.
By joec
November 11, 2005 06:35 PM | Link to this
voice of reason: YOU ABSOLUTLY RIGH T ABOUT Langerhans to 1st but how about the trade of Marte for Brozoban
By Eric
November 11, 2005 06:53 PM | Link to this
PLEASE HELP—DOES ANYONE HAVE AN ESPN INSIDER PASSWORD THEY WOULD LIKE TO SHARE?
THANKS— GO BRAVES
By Steve Phillips
November 11, 2005 07:49 PM | Link to this
Eric,
You don’t need ESPN Insider. You have me. I’m your GM. Talk to me.
Sincerely,
Steve XOXO
By Eric
November 11, 2005 08:44 PM | Link to this
DOB OR ANY1…….IF YOU HAVE A PASSWORD FOR INSIDER…WANT TO SHARE? ITS A GREAT TOOL FOR THE OFFSEASON!
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2005 09:30 PM | Link to this
Biff, you’re exactly right about speed-reading these things and getting testy because i was trying to do the bigger part of my job, which is getting info to write story for the actual paper and online version of the paper, rather than the blog.
but sorry if i’ve hurt anyone’s feelings. hey, buck up, boys, it’s the majors. if some of you are offended or insulted by my mild ragging, man would you ever cringe in the clubhouse. you absolutely wouldn’t believe the things people call each other, including players on players, players to writers, writers to writers and everybody else. no holds barred.
maybe i need to be a little more gentle here with folks. didn’t realize that was the case.
anyway, the guy who keeps bringing up the furcal/rosenthal item. whatever. i’m done. i was just trying to emphasize to you how ridiculous that rumor was, that’s all. i mean, think about it: furcal to shortstop? why? are they going to get a whole team of shortstops and just spread them at every position? I mean, think about it, when’s the last time a key free agent changed positions to a spot he’s NEVER PLAYED IN HIS LIFE, and i don’t mean going from short to second or to third or whatever, but an entirely different spot. why? why would they do that? answer: they wouldn’t. they won’t. it’s not even on the board. never was.
but i’ll leave it be.
on another matter, i’m told by reliable sources that it’s 50 percent on hampton insurance, after a 60-day deductible is paid. and please, the dude that seems rather caught up in trying to figure out what this means to braves’ payroll: there’s no way to know, because they won’t even acknowledge what the insurance is paying, much less whether it gives them any more to spend. i’ve asked, several times.
on to furcal: just got off phone with agent. nothing new to report today. no offers made, just a talk with cubs. he doesn’t think anything will happen until monday.
we’ll keep checking in with him this weekend, though.
and again, sorry if anyone’s feelings were hurt. i really feel like a bully (yeah, right…)
By KneeJerk
November 11, 2005 10:40 PM | Link to this
Why would Langerhans play 1st? He’s the most sound outfielder we have. If you move LaRoche off of 1st, you go get a big bat for the corner infield.
By Paul Hamilton
November 11, 2005 10:40 PM | Link to this
Sorry to come back in here and rain on your parade D. O’brien, but on espn they have a brand new article talking with kinzer who is furcals agent. It says specifically and I quote “The New York Mets, Chicago Cubs and Kansas City Royals have already shown interest in Furcal and, according to Kinzer, the New York Yankees have also contacted him to find out if Furcal would consider playing center field. Oh and a quote from Kinzer himself “Raffy is OK with playing shortstop, second base or center field,” Kinzer said. **”Just give him a glove and he will play wherever you ask him to.” Man talk about getting your words thrown back into your face, maybe you should check your sources about this espn article quoting his agent as saying what Ken Rosenthal reported. Once again I realize you are busy and trying to find info but man it seems like everyone is reporting this and you say its crazy, makes you wonder doesnt it. I mean someone is either lying that kinzer said this or it is absolutely true. Here is the link to the newly posted false report on ESPN http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2221393
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2005 10:51 PM | Link to this
Yeah, OK. Let’s mark this time and date, that the “words are thrown back in my face.”
So, when a rumor gets twisted into a story, and it involves the Yanks, and someone asks Kinzer, whose job is to get the most money for his client, is he supposed to say, “That’s ridiculous. The Yankees have no interest in my client as a center fielder?”
Just curious, is that what you think he’d say? And if so, why?
I’ll drop it. If the Yankees want him to play center field and bat leadoff instead of Derek Jeter, whose OBP is 40 points higher, then OK, I’m wrong.
It’s being written “everywhere,” is it? ESPN Deportes and the Rosenthal article. That’s where it’s been written. Again, I’m just trying to help steer you right. But if you think I’m an idiot and need to “check my sources” (I got off the phone with Kinzer an hour ago and Yankees weren’t mentioned), I’ll just put my tail between my legs and say you’re right.
Yankees, it us. By the way, want to place a gentleman’s wager on it?
And go to a couple of Yankees blogs, see what they’re saying about it. Let’s put it this way: You’re giving it a lot more validity than they are.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2005 10:52 PM | Link to this
And to answer your question, the makes me wonder doesn’t it? line: No, it doesn’t make me wonder. Not at all. It makes you wonder, apparently. It doesn’t make me wonder.
Peace.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2005 10:55 PM | Link to this
Langerhans would play first for the same reason Furcal would play center. Because don’t you know, any player can play any position, they’re all interchangeable.
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 11:05 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the Hampton info… I’m not too caught up in that, but when you’re constrained by a self-imposed restrictive “cap,” every tiny drop of spending resource seems magnified. I agree… Kinzer’s job is to acknowledge any possibility, real or fictional. The more possible suitors, the greater the perceived demand. Greater demand, limited supply, higher asking price.
By Paul Hamilton
November 11, 2005 11:08 PM | Link to this
No I’m just saying that if this is such a load of crap how when it was on the MSN Homepage to FoxSports and it is on the ESPN Homepage and it quotes an agent as saying this am I supposed to know automatically that it is false?? You acted like I was an idiot for even considering this might be true. I mean I have read articles on all these big sites saying that alot of clubs want to move a.soriano to the outfield because he sucks at 2B. Is that true or false? I will state the facts that I said earlier, we are fans and dont have inside connections like you do. So coming here and saying thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard and acting like im an idiot for posting what the article said is crazy. I think this is ridiculous if people can just say that kinzers agent said this and kinzers agent said that and well this is a lie but I’m gonna write this article anyways. Why dont you fill us in on what news agencies we should take for reporting accurate information and which writers to believe. Then I can check your chart so I know it gets the D.O’brien seal of approval for being something I can actually believe.
By Carla
November 11, 2005 11:12 PM | Link to this
KJ should play 1st before Langy.
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 11:14 PM | Link to this
Is Kelly Johnson playing any winter ball anywhere? Sweet swing, couldn’t seem to get it on track. He could be a possible lead-off candidate, could he not? That being said, I like Langerhans’ game. Great defensively, fairly solid offensively. I asked earlier of his potential as a lead-off hitter. I know he has above average speed and is solid fundamentally… could he achieve a decent enough OBP? Also, given the fact that both KJ and RL bat lefty, should we assume that one of them will be elsewhere next season?
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2005 11:15 PM | Link to this
OK, enough for me. I can’t even respond without you going berserk. I didn’t say you were an idiot (though you implied I was one), didn’t say it was the dumbest thing I’d ever heard (though, now that you mentioned it…) and am not going to act as though i’m the guy who knows everything and other websites are fraudulent. Ken Rosenthal is very good; I have a great deal of respect for him.
I was just trying to point out to you how, from what I’m told, this one got ran with and made into a story that wasn’t a story. I’ll stop there. Don’t want to mess up anyone’s fun or be the ogre here. So I’ll chat with you Monday on blog day. Until then, give it your own seal of approval, my man. You don’t need me around.
By braves fan
November 11, 2005 11:21 PM | Link to this
You GO! Dave O’Brien 75% of the postings on here are absolutely chocked full of rantings,rumblings and musings from people who don’t have a clue about the game they claim to know so much about.The majority of the fan base here wants to trade Kelly Johnson for Manny Ramirez and have the Sox pay 75% of his salary.Better yet let’s trade HoRam for Brad Lidge and the Astros will be glad to accomadate the Braves on this transaction.Oh! and everyone’s favorite -Let’s release Chipper just for the hell of it because he just doesn’t play hard enough to suit “Johnny Lunchpail” or “Joe Timeclock”.All that can be said is “Ahh the mirthful laugh of the ignorant and damned!
By Paul Hamilton
November 11, 2005 11:22 PM | Link to this
Oh and I could care less about what the yankees would want to do all I said is that this is what the fox sports news articles said. I never said that was a great idea by the yankees. I never said oh well furcal is definately going to be the next great center fielder. I mean I guess it is physically impossible for raffy to play center field huh? I mean I guess I dreamed that the braves moved chipper to the outfield?
By Voice of Reason
November 11, 2005 11:28 PM | Link to this
OK… now that we have that out of our system, back to my sudden and unexplained obsession with KJ and RL…
DOB, what’s the inside skinny on which of these two the braintrust feels has the greatest upside?
By Eric
November 11, 2005 11:41 PM | Link to this
**DAVE OBRIEN—I RESPECT YOUR ARTICLES IN EVERY WAY…YOU ARE A STRAIGHT SHOOTER, AND TELL IT LIKE IT IS. ON ANOTHER NOTE, CAN YOU PLEASE USE YOUR SOURCES AND FIND ME AN ESPN INSIDER PASSWORD???
THANKS…
ERIC**
By Paul Hamilton
November 11, 2005 11:43 PM | Link to this
And I am gullible and crazy for even considering a story might be true from a writer who you think is good and respect??? I guess Rosenthal needed a story badly to use a joke as his basis for an article.
By Eric
November 11, 2005 11:45 PM | Link to this
DOB—IF U CANT, JUST SAY SO…I LEAVE THE MATTER ALONE.
WEBB
By Eric
November 11, 2005 11:47 PM | Link to this
DOB…IF YOU CANT DO IT, JUST SAY SO. I WILL LEAVE THE MATTER ALONE…
THANKS-
By Chris
November 11, 2005 11:47 PM | Link to this
ARE YOU KIDDING ME, FURCAL AGENT SAYS HE IS WORTH $50 MILLION. IM SORRY, I LIKE RAFFY A LOT AND I DO THINK HE DESERVES TO GET PAID…BUT NOT FOR 50 MILLION OVER FIVE YEARS..HE DOESNT DO IT ON A CONSISTANT BASIS TO GET PAID THAT MUCH….I DONT SEEN JOHN DISHING OUT THAT KIND OF MONEY TO A PLAYER THAT DOESNT BRING IT MONTH TO MONTH…SEASON IS 162…NOT 78 GAMES
By Juiced
November 11, 2005 11:51 PM | Link to this
Hey Eric…”PAY” FOR A DAMN INSIDER PASSWORD OF YOUR OWN BUM!!!!!
By Voice of Reason
November 12, 2005 12:03 AM | Link to this
Chris, facts are facts… Furcal is a unique talent that gives you solid if not stellar play at SS, leads off, nets 40-50 SB’s, and remember, he’s still just a kid. His best years are still in front of him. His value is simply based on the needs of the suitor. Is he worth $50mil to the Braves? Probably not, since they have depth at middle infield in the system, as well as trade commodities. To the Cubs, however, his value obviously is higher. They, or NYM, could drop $50mil on him much easier. Their middle infield needs are greater. As for his inconsistency, that’s simply a characteristic of his age. Look at the defensive improvement this year. By all accounts that was the result of an increasing maturity. I personally believe that the length of the deal may back JS off more than the $. After all, Escobar is only a couple of years away, if that…
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2005 12:08 AM | Link to this
Uh, just in case anyone cares, so we can officially put an end to it here and let the rest of the blogging and internet world to mull over _ ESPN Deportes, etc _ IT WAS A JOKE. OK. FURCAL PLAYING CF FOR THE YANKEES WAS NEVER SERIOUS DISCUSSION.\
I literally just got off the phone with Kinzer 10 minutes ago, and he’s absolutely amazed that ESPN Deportes wrote it seriously, when he made it clear to the writer that, while Furcal is a great athlete and could surely play CF if he trained there and got ready, it was NEVER SERIOUS DISCUSSION WITH YANKEES. Cashman mentioned it in front of a group of agents and writers the other night at the hotel lobby, and Cash was not being serious. His tone was, ‘Well, can he play center field? OK, then we’re interested.’ Kidding. Not serious.
Nothing to it. Period. And until Cash comes out and says as much, some won’t believe it, and now this story is posted on ESPN’s website, and blah blah blah.
Well, you heard it here first. The agent himself says it was a joke. He’s freaking out because he just heard them mention on SportsCenter that his client thinks he can play any position and blah blah blah.
Oh well, I guess someone in NY will bother to say it’s not serious, then the rest of the world will believe it. But as I said from day 1, it made no sense. And no, it’s nothing like moviing Soriano to OF because he stinks at 2B. Furcal doesn’t stink at 2B, and the Yankees aren’t going to pay $50 mill for a guy to play CF who’s NEVER PLAYED THE OUTFIELD.
By the way, they have a leadoff hitter, guy by the name of Jeter, who has an OBP 40 points higher than Furcal.
By Biff
November 12, 2005 12:12 AM | Link to this
Eric, you know, technically, you’re soliciting a crime with these stupid jokes. I would say I doubt you’ll be caught, but on the other hand, I sort of think, some day, you will. No matter how funny I thought I was, I don’t think I’d be doing that on the internet. I look forward to your funny response.
DOB, thanks for checking in. Not easy dealing with us bloggers, but some of us do appreciate it.
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2005 12:12 AM | Link to this
I mean, Furcal doesn’t stink at SS, not doesn’t stink at 2B. Although he also doesn’t stink at 2B, but anyway….
Hey, am I missing something on the pleas for a password for ESPN insider. What’s up with that guy?
Shouldn’t complain, though. Should just be thankful we’ve gone more than 24 hours without a post from The Least Funny Blogger In The History of The Internet.
Yes, the alarmingly, consistently unfunny JonBonRocker.
By Voice of Reason
November 12, 2005 12:17 AM | Link to this
FYI on Yunel Escobar:
go to
for his stats.
By Voice of Reason
November 12, 2005 12:21 AM | Link to this
Let me try this again… Yunel Escobar’s stats.
By Voice of Reason
November 12, 2005 12:26 AM | Link to this
Is it just me, or am I having a relatively unproductive discussion with myself? Well, at least I learned how to link to another page… that’s somewhat productive…
By Eric
November 12, 2005 12:31 AM | Link to this
Biff—-I am soliciting a crime? I am 18, and had no idea that asking for a password to some stupid espn pay thingie would cause such an upheveal. Truly sorry if I offended you boys. Especially Dave “whats up with that guy” Obrien. Sorry if my callus remarks rubbed you the wrong way. Shame on me and forever condem thy to hell. On another note, how do we get rid of Kolb, no1 would want him, cant trade him, so what can we do with the shmoe?
By Biff
November 12, 2005 12:31 AM | Link to this
VOR, I’ve never looked for Escobar’s stats, but http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com might be a good starting point.
By Voice of Reason
November 12, 2005 12:33 AM | Link to this
Check out my hyperlink on the above post where his name turned blue. Kinda cute, huh? My first hyperlink… I’m so proud!
By Eric
November 12, 2005 12:35 AM | Link to this
Biff—-where you refering to me when you you stated i was making a big joke?
By Voice of Reason
November 12, 2005 12:40 AM | Link to this
Since I’m getting the hang of this hyperlink thing, I’ll do this again:
For Yunel Escobar’s 2005 stats, click here.
By Eric
November 12, 2005 12:41 AM | Link to this
DOB—WE AT PEACE?
By Biff
November 12, 2005 12:47 AM | Link to this
Eric, I’m listening. What’s up?
By Voice of Reason
November 12, 2005 12:57 AM | Link to this
Well, I’ve asked a few questions and made a couple of inquiries and have struck out. I can go to bed and get that kind of treament! G’night—-
By Eric
November 12, 2005 01:03 AM | Link to this
By Biff
November 12, 2005 12:12 AM | Link to this
Biff you said this in a post earlier….”Eric, you know, technically, you’re soliciting a crime with these stupid jokes. I would say I doubt you’ll be caught, but on the other hand, I sort of think, some day, you will. No matter how funny I thought I was, I don’t think I’d be doing that on the internet. I look forward to your funny response.”
was that directed to me for b/c I was asking for an ESPN Insider password?
Sorry if I annoyed any1, wont bring it up again.
By Biff
November 12, 2005 01:07 AM | Link to this
Eric, I really didn’t mean to put the fear of God into anyone, and doubted that I did. I’m real concerned that if blogs become trading places for passwords to paid sites, they will be shut down or restricted. I am a web developer and have some sense of this issue. I doubt the CIA is watching us real closely, what with Iraq and Iran and N. Korea and all, but that’s my take on this “shared password” thing. I thought from your repeated posts that you were playing around with this. Don’t take it too seriously, man.
By Eric
November 12, 2005 01:20 AM | Link to this
Its cool, just wanted the Insider thingie for the offseason…rumor central etc. Does that help you see where I am coming from now? To be honest its not a big deal at all. Now that I look at it, we have the DOB relaying info to us from the meetings and such. In essence I dont need anything else, especially when all I want is info on Braves happenings. AJC actually has some class and does not charge for such crap. This is probably about the best you can get in regards to all that. And its coming from a reliable source who actually likes the Braves and is not a Homer for the Yanks. It was very salty of me to come on hear and actually ask DOB for a password, man that probably looked bad.DOB I think I speak for all when I say Thanks.
Thanks for listening, go Braves.
By Biff
November 12, 2005 01:31 AM | Link to this
Yeah, OK, Eric. My conscience is clear. You’re a smart guy, so you do what you need to.
By Eric
November 12, 2005 01:42 AM | Link to this
Biff—I am not trying to be a wise guy, but I cant tell if you are serious or being sarcastic. I hope you take me seriously, because I am. I took your words seriously, you set me straight. At least thats what I thought you where hoping to do.
Eric
By SouthernJackass
November 12, 2005 02:24 AM | Link to this
Who is this O’Brien guy, some little angry, and inadequate clown? Attacking people on this lame blog…get a life Loser!
By KneeJerk
November 12, 2005 06:15 AM | Link to this
Thanks DOB for pointing out an agents job. He’s supposed to say that everyone is interested in his guy. And Paul, why waste time quoting KInzer? Did anyone else see the Rosenhaus/T.O press conference? That alone should teach you to mute whatever an agent says. When they open their mouths, they do so with $$$ and nothing else in mind. They’ll say ANYTHING!
By joec
November 12, 2005 07:39 AM | Link to this
Will Johnny Estrada be shopped this winter?Could he get us a replacement for Furcal or some help in the bullpen? How about Estrada to San Diego for Scott Linebrink? Maybe a package with Kelly Johnson for Lugo and Danys Baez from Tampa? Is there anyway to package Estada, Horacio and one of the young SS prospects to the Angels for Chone Figgins to play SS and leadoff? As for a closer would Todd Jones fill the role until Devine is ready? I’m sure JS wont spend the $ for a Wagner but Jones should be in the price range.If Furcal does re-sign does anyone think Giles would/could/should be shopped. His hustle and attitude is great but he dissapears in October (which must be contagious). I would still make the same deal for Figgins and let him play 2B. What is up with Blaine Boyer’s arm is it ok? and will he be the 8th inning guy? as far as Kolb goes I’m sure JS will not tender him a contract to make him disapear.One more question: If Estrada is dealt who will back up McCann I think they need a veteran backup. How about Todd Pratt? He would be ok for one start a week and he has some power to come off the bench he is probably a good guy in the clubhouse as well.
By chris
November 12, 2005 10:32 AM | Link to this
well like i said “voice of reason” Furcal shouldnt command that kind of money. NOw, dont get me wrong, i know his agent is doing his job and i dont blame him, but this is why guys sometimes get overpaid because teams get desperate in filling positions on teams. Example, anybody that knows the game of baseball and have seen beltran play knew he wasnt going to duplicate the same feat he shown in the playoffs in 04…I know Raffy is very valuable, but i do say those stolen bases can be up more to 70-80 range if he gets on base on a regular basis and also if he has the green light from BObby Cox. Not even counting the number of times this year that Marcus Giles swung at picthes out of the strike zone preventing F******* to steal second
By Hy Anenzide
November 12, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this
Once again in defense of LaRoche IMO the guy needs to stay right where he is, city, team and position for the next 12 years or so. Remember he has just now completed his “sophomore jinx” with steady improvement.He’s still a kid, but a kid with one of the best 1st base gloves in MLB.I could go into repetitive detail about his bat, but instead want to point out why I don’t think people like him, or at least why some don’t.
He is not flashy. He’s not fast. He won’t lay down a surprise bunt and beat it out for a single. He won’t score from first much. He won’t bat .400 or hit 50 HRs. Unfortuneatly, that can be misread as lethargy. That’s a mistake we, as fans, are most guilty of, misdiagnosing physical actions into attitudes. Show me ONE athlete in ANY professional sport that “doesn’t care if he there or not”. That athlete does not exist. Remember the position folks. Solid defense and infield corner numbers (25-30/90-100), that’s what the Braves will have from 2006-2018 with this kid.
A final thought. AJ has caught flack. like LaRoche is now, for years because in the opinion of some, he does not hustle. That is a fan’s perception and an incorrect one at that. Want proof? Look up Gold Glove winners the last few years. People said the same about Henry Aaron too, a great outfielder.
I am trying to work in a way to close this with reminding us all that LaRoche is at least faster than Ole Sid was, but then I am not sure if that help or hurts my argument.
By Voice of Reason
November 12, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this
Hy, nice comparison with Laroche and Sid Bream - even keeled and low key. AL has a really sweet swing, too, and surprising power for what appears to be little effort. Yeah… Bream’s a good comparison… (man, I wish I’d thought of that…) Also, he seems to be a real class act, that’s never bad.
By YAD
November 12, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this
This just in:
FauxSportsNews just reported on it’s website that Rafael Furcal IS going to the Yankees and play center, Ozzie Guillen will be replacing him at shortstop as player/manager, John Smoltz will move to right field for the Braves, Don Sutton is coming out of retirement to become the new Staff Ace and Bobby Cox has been hired to take Bobby Labonte’s spot for Joe Gibbs racing.
By Biff
November 12, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this
Hy, I’ve said in the past I’d like to see a little more “fire” out of Laroche…never trashed him or anything, cause I agree with you on his skills. But you’re right, some guys just don’t appear to be working that hard, and maybe that’s okay.
Sounds like the early returns suggest that the market for Furcal isn’t quite as robust as some thought… who knows, maybe it’ll work out after all (though I still doubt it).
By Ron Roberts
November 12, 2005 05:30 PM | Link to this
Who’s this ‘Southern Jackass’ with his many fake e-mail adderesses, and nothing constructive or even baseball-related to add to this (his word) “lame” blog?
Who needs to get the life?
By Hy Anenzide
November 12, 2005 05:31 PM | Link to this
I’d like to hear yalls opinion on a matter that’s been bugging me.
When Furcal had hid run in with the law and the alcohol problems was he booed at the stadium? Did the fans support him as one of our own community?
When the age descrepancy was revealed and he was not the boy wonder anymore, did not we as fans shrug the deception off and continue to embrace him?
I realize loyalty has gone the way of the leather helmet, but I have a serious problem here. Forgive me for what may be considered stereotypical, but my Bat-sense tells me that Raphael’s financial portfolio wasn’t exactly a good Fortune 500 read when he came to Atlanta.
So now he’s about to become a multi-millionaire where ever he ends up. This is where Tom Glavine lost my respect. As Yogi says, de ja vu all over again. How many millions do you guys need? As much as I enjoy Skip Carey, and I think he’s one of the best all-time, I disagree strongly with his opinion (re: Glavine’s exodus) the I (Joe Fan) would have done the same thing. Not this Joe Fan.
Furcal, show me something here. Show me loyalty to your adopted city and the fans that have supported you through your career. Show the young people of Atlanta that look up to you as a role model the world is more than money. You are days away from having more money than you knew existed when you were a child. Play for the love of the game, to win a championship and your team mates. This is not about you and the Braves ownership. They know nothing about the spirit and hospitility of the true South. This is between Rafael Furcal and the fans of the Atlanta Braves.
How many millions do you need, Raffy?
By PapawJames
November 12, 2005 06:03 PM | Link to this
Well I hate my job but it is great money. 5 years ago I had the same job but less money. I was alot happier then. I am sure there is people out there that was happier making less but being in the right place. But we mostly go for the money.That is just common sense.The Braves will offer 3 or just maybe 4 years for Furcal. JS will not go for 5 year contract. But Furcal might sign if the money is close to 4 years.If you don’t have love for the game your in the wrong business, with that being said you should try to get what you can and that is common sense.Friends and Family will make you happier than the money anyway. Good Luck Furcal hope to see you in a Braves uniform but if not make the best of it.If there will ever be a contract for 5 or more years it will be for a Top Notch Pitcher.
By Biff
November 12, 2005 06:03 PM | Link to this
Hy, my opinion is that if one team offers me $24 mil, and another $38 mil, I’m probably going to take the 38. I agree with your sentiment, but just don’t think it’s realistic to expect a guy to turn down that kind of money. If the difference was a couple of grand, yeah, maybe, but that’s a lot of jack!
I saw an interview with Glavine recently, and he talked about how happy his family is in Connecticut, or wherever they live… and that he’s closer to his own family, etc. That he’d love to be winning, and he loved the Braves, but was happy with his decision.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 12, 2005 06:54 PM | Link to this
Will McDowell work with Kolb and get his sinker working? If Kolb can get people out again will he still be the most hated man on the team? Will they even try to redeem him?
How good is Pete Orr? Can he play everyday? He played 2b,3b,lf,dh,and ss in 2005. Can he take over at 2b if Giles goes, and bat leadoff?
The Braves website has a tribute to Jonathan Schuerholz. He out-hit Saltamacchia in the AFL. Is he coming to the bigs next year?
LeTwan thinks this won’t be harmful to anybody and it may just be helpful to Eric. LeTwan knows the password, “Open Sesame.” Say it and a rock will open up in front of you. Say, “Shut Semsame” and the rock will close right up. If it works, say hello to Ali Baba for LeTwan.
By Biff
November 12, 2005 07:16 PM | Link to this
I for one have nothing personal against Kolb. Sure he was trying his best to make that ball sink. If the Braves offered him a cheap contract, and tried to salvage a once-promising career, I wouldn’t boo him (until he really screwed up, of course).
By LeTwan Anthony
November 12, 2005 07:27 PM | Link to this
Biff, LeTwan agrees. Several nights, Kolb made LeTwan throw a piece of Mama’s pie across the room but if he could get us through the 8th inning next season with a lead LeTwan could forgive him still. Is a sinker hard to throw? Was Kolb throwing it too hard or was he hurt, or did he just suck? I can’t remember a Brave gettting booed like that just for stepping on the field.
By Biff
November 12, 2005 07:44 PM | Link to this
Probably overthrowing it, I would guess, but it’s only a guess. Not much pressure in Milwaukee, and a lot from day 1 in the Atl with all the legends lurking.
By PapawJames
November 12, 2005 09:51 PM | Link to this
Don’t know what Kolb problem was last year but I do know he does have good stuff and when he gets on the field he needs to block or forget the last game weather good or bad.His Head needs to be Game On.My favorite EX Brave pitcher(Maddux) didn’t have the best stuff but he play the game like Chess, always thinking 3 or 4 pitches ahead.Kold don’t have pin point control like Maddux and he got me so mad last year but do believe it could be different in06
By autumn ozog
November 13, 2005 07:55 AM | Link to this
I never hear anything about Manny Ramirez nor Konerko coming here. Sure, they would be expensive—————but can you imagine the 1-2 that pair would make!
I might even become a Braves fan. I am a Boston fan, have been for 50 years. For a short time a Braves fan. They traded Filipe Alou and I got mad. They treated Rico Carty badly and I said to he— with them. Do I hold a grudge?
By Ol' Coach from wayback
November 13, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this
autumn, the Beeg Boy threatended to whip Hank Aaron’s butt again and the Braves sent him packing. He’d already whipped it once on a Delta charter flight. Think he left in 1972. He was slow and had a bad glove but boy could he hit. The Braves had stars off and on for years - some AL stars well past their prime - but never a real good team. The Beeg Boy was fun to watch.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 13, 2005 06:51 PM | Link to this
The Chicago Tribune is reporting that the Cubs will not offer Furcal a 5 year deal. Maybe he’s not going to get the offer he thinks. Still, he’s likely gone. Letwan would rather see him with the Cubs than the Mets.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 13, 2005 06:58 PM | Link to this
NY Daily News says the Cubs are poised to give Furcal the 5 year deal he desires. Go figure. LeTwan thinks we better wait to read DOB’s article tomorrow.
By Biff
November 13, 2005 07:32 PM | Link to this
Interesting that you don’t see the Braves mentioned in virtually ANY of the free agent talk. Probably means nothing except that JS is more tight-lipped than some of these guys, who seem to be willing to say pretty much anything about pretty much anybody. Or maybe it means the Braves have more confidence in their young pitching than we bloggers do.
By SouthernJackass
November 13, 2005 08:25 PM | Link to this
No, John Schuerholz isn’t being tight-lipped—he’s being tight-pocketed as usual—you’s guys will only see players leaving Atlanta—as soon as they are worth more money, out the door they go—so you’s guys just keep dreamin’, ain’t nobody worth anything coming to the Braves—get used to it.
By Biff
November 13, 2005 08:29 PM | Link to this
You’re probably right, SJ. Just that we brought in Hudson last year, Drew the year before. So I’ll wait and see, but thanks.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 13, 2005 09:16 PM | Link to this
One season wonders are supposed to bring us a pennant. Drew didn’t. Now, Jason Marquis, Adam Wainwright, and Ray King are gone along with Drew. Hudson’s still here but Juan Cruz, Dan Meyer, and Charles Thomas are gone. We have one player left from those moves. Two super young pitching prospects are gone. Lots of different opinions on Marquis and King but they both made it deeper than the Braves to the NLCS. JS has a tough job. Hudson needs to pitch like he did in the second game NLDS so he won’t be a bust.
By Biff
November 13, 2005 09:24 PM | Link to this
Guess there’s two ways (or more) to view most things, LetWan. Drew was a “one year wonder?” Seems to me the Braves got the best year of his career, and the Dodgers paid huge bucks for him, and got the “old” JD with half a season missed due to injuries. Luck or skill on JS’ part? I don’t know.
I’m not crying over the loss of any of the guys you mention. Don’t see where any of them have gone on to do great things, but of course they may.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 13, 2005 10:30 PM | Link to this
Biff, we won’t know for awhile. We did get one very good year from Drew. Jason Marquis and Ray King may not mean much but Adam Wainwright was regarded as the top pitching prospect in the minors. Will he be an impact player? We’ll find out later. The point LeTwan makes is that now we have neither Drew nor Wainwright. It was a gamble for a flag. Too bad the Braves didn’t get one. I will agree that JS has a gift for letting veteran players go at the right time. I hope he does his magic again in the off-season.
By Biff
November 13, 2005 10:40 PM | Link to this
Yeah, and I admit that I’m not really the unquestioning JS/BC fan that I turn into on these blogs… all the negative ranting turns me into that, I guess. To me, yeah, I wonder about Wainwright; heard he’s a great prospect, but don’t really know his ‘stuff’ that well.
King? Another routine midreliever; if he’d have been in ATL this year, we’d probably be saying ‘dump him.’ Marquis is okay but IMHO nothing to fret over.
What I DO like about this team is its ability to recycle itself. Drew filled the gap for a year while RL got ready (I think Francouer arrived earlier than even JS/BC expected). We can afford to give up a Wainwright because we have Davies and fill-in-name coming up as well. So, I like that. But, since there’s no angry bloggers in the room, I’ll admit… we have given up some talent! (and I know, I just invited them)
I’m not that worried about the starting 8 this year… but WOULD like to see us spend some money on the ‘pen.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 13, 2005 10:58 PM | Link to this
Trust LeTwan, we’re on the right blog. Nasty stuff going on at ChopChick’s tonight. I try not to blog with the guy. It is good that the Braves have so much talent because Dan Meyer was supposed to be a really good one, too. Wainwright is supposed to be can’t miss. Capellan had that young strong arm and could throw 100 mph. Maybe Kolb can be resurrected or maybe JS got out-traded. For Capellan to make it he needs another pitch and some discipline. If he gets them, watch out. The Braves do recycle well - but LeTwan would have told you a different story after watching Mondesi and Jordan in the OF last year. LeTwan just hates to see the promising kids go elsewhere. The fix is definitely in the pen. Smoltz will be gone early if he has to go as deep in the games next season.
By Biff
November 13, 2005 11:05 PM | Link to this
I agree, or else I’m too tired to disagree. Yeah, I witnessed that carnage at ChopChick.
Check you later…
By LeTwan Anthony
November 13, 2005 11:09 PM | Link to this
BIff, LeTwan didn’t respond very well. By “One Season Wonder” Letwan meant JS gave up several players to get a guy (Drew) who likely would be playing elsewhere after one season here. That’s what happened. Drew reverted to DL Drew.
Watch Farnsworth leave after one season, too. He cost us Roman Colon and Zach Minor. He gave us the gas to win the division - but, what a flop in the playoffs. We give up good, young talent to get these guys and then they are gone. If you win a flag it’s worth it. If you don’t …
By Carroll Ann
November 14, 2005 07:30 AM | Link to this
Ray King sucks. I remember him in the Atl….it seemed as though he would always come in to a game, walk a batter, then sit there with his hands on his robust hips with a diguested look on his face whilest Boogie waddled out to get him. What’s so great about that? But I do see your point about the other guys we lost.
LeTwan, I could’ve used your help on the chop chick blog last night! I was fightin the demons that possess Mr. Roberts….it was a tough fight, but I think I made some progress. I know it can be frustrating, but don’t turn your back on your fellow man, my friend.
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this
Good morning to all! As I have read through the many entries on this and Chop Chick’s blog, I have suddenly realized the dynamic that exists here. Many of you have been “discussing” for a while and I just barged in on the party and expected respect. Allow me to apologize for that… That being said, allow me to introduce myself. I am the Voice of Reason. I am a long-time Braves fan from way back when my Dad sold tickets at AFCS and brought me home a Ralph Garr Beep-Beep license plate for my bike. I’ve seen it all, from Rick Camp’s homer to Noc-a-homa & Hit-a-single (his scantily-clad “daughter,” remember?) to Bobby Wine and Dave Bristol. I was livid when they removed the Chief’s teepee to create more seats for the ‘82 play-offs, and felt it justified when they were swept by the Card’s. I love all sports and always follow my son to whatever competition the season requires, currently wrestling. I’ll fight over the Dawgs, and cry over the Falcons, Hawks and Thrashers - but, the Braves are my passion. That’s the reason for my strong opinions. I like writing and love sharing my self-described expert opinions, so this blog is a perfect fit. I won’t participate in the petty personal attacks, but I will enjoy the asides. And I especially enjoy hearing what LeTwan’s mama is cooking today… makes me hungry. Expect me to interject and hang as long as possible, but hit and runs will happen. Nice to meet ya’ll, well, most of you. Some of you on Chop Chick’s blog really need some emotional guidance…
By Carrolleece Starling
November 14, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this
Voice: don’t worry bout that stuff on CC’s blog…it’s all fun-n-games….not much Braves stuff to talk about anymore so we all go a li’l crazy…we’ve all beat the playoffs, and furcal, and BC, and CJ, etc to death, so now we gotta talk about something else. Welcome ot the blog.
By Carroll
November 14, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this
Oops…forgot to fix my name..it’s a carryover from the CC blog….don’t ask.
By Hannibal Lector
November 14, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this
“Fly away now little Starling!”…Fly!…Fly!!….
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this
LeTwan is happy to have you here VOR and LT hopes me callin’ you “raisins” earlier was okay. Somedays the blog gets a little mean and is not much fun. Somedays, it’s a hoot. (Can LeTwan say “hoot” without upsetting BBFan?)
We talk some goood baseball with a little bit of funnin’. LeTwan has been known to tell a Chipper joke once in awhile but he knows Chipper was a MVP. DOB said even Chipper would laugh if somebody explained ‘em to him. Well, that’s not exactly what DOB said.
Ah, yes, Ralph Garr, the roadrunner. He did a great car commercial - couldn’t understand a single word but you kinda got the idea. Remember Hank Aaron doing Lifebouy commercials? The question then and now is, Who wants to smell like Hank Aaron? Sure would like to hit like him, though. LeTwan’s favorite Brave was Greg Olson. Still is. Eleven Minor League seasons and then he’s a ML All-Star. But LeTwan has had many favorites over the years.
Mama’s shelling pecans. That means pecan pie. Carroll would probably mess it up with cool whip but that’s okay. He loves the Braves and knows we have to have some pitching help so he is okay by LeTwan.
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this
I’ll beat this dead horse again - I believe the greater issue with resigning Furcal is length of contract, not $$$. As I mentioned earlier, I’m sure you are all aware of Yunel Escobar in A ball at Rome this past season. Click here for his 2005 stats.”>http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Yunel%20Escobar&pos=SS&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=488862). He’s highly regarded by not only the Braves organization, but all of MLB. He is probably only 2 years away from taking over the SS spot. He’s not a baby, 23, and will be a rapid riser. JS really only wants somebody to occupy the spot short-term and be a veteran back-up long-term. That’s why you hear the names Lugo and Everett. I personally feel that Betemit has already earned the position, but he’s obviously not a leadoff hitter. That being said, SS and lead-off are much more easily addressed than the real offseason need which is - yes, you guessed it - the ‘pen. No magic formula here. The Braves traditionally choose to save $$$ in the ‘pen, while addressing needs elsewhere. This is the year they need to concentrate their limited resources on this previously ignored area. There is money to spend since they will be losing more salary in defectors and non-tenders than they’ll gain through arbitration, so there should be some funding. And, let’s not forget that a certain percentage of Hampton’s salary is insured for 2006.
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this
LeTwan, I actually like raisins! Quite tasty and healthy - but stick close to the little Voices of Reason’s room. I like cool-whip, too. Sorry…
By Astro Joe
November 14, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this
I think we are vastly over-estimating our starting pitching. I think it would be very foolish to assume that we can get 225+ innings from Smotlz next season. Do we really think that Jorge Houdini Sosa can pitch with bases full of runners again next season? Ramirez can’t pitch away from Atlanta and is Davies truly that automatic? Again, I think we need a #3 starter first and foremost. Zito, Washburn & Vasquez are 3 names to throw out.
I also wonder if losing Leo means that we may choose to keep some hard throwers in the future. Leo’s “low & outside” philosophy may have allowed for flame throwers like Cruz, Cappellan, Colon, & Marquis to leave the organization (I don’t know if Wainwright or Myers were fastball pitchers). I think Boyer may be the only young gun left who can get it over 95 MPH consistently. It will be interesting to see if McDowell is able to better nurture fastball throwers.
But we desperately need to have close to a sure thing in the third spot of the rotation, and I personally would prefer a lefty in that spot.
By The Senator from Silence of the Lambs
November 14, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this
Raisins (California?): I agree with everything you said, and ,as LeTwan can attest, I’ve beed saying those same things since before the playoffs ended. I’m so glad that you are not possessed by satan like some of our other bloggin’ bretheren….Carroll is exhausted after an excercism just last night (again, don’t ask).
LeTWan: I prolly wouldn’t put cool whip on pecan pie….maybe a scoop of ‘nilla ice cream. Can’t wait for Turkey day with a rotation of pecan pie,lemon merangue, and cheesecake punkin pie. Does your momma dig the innards out of the punkin herself? Maybe BC could help with that?
By Carroll
November 14, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this
Oooops…there I go again dammit. How does RR keep all his different names straight without screwing it up like Carroll always does?
j/k RR!
By Rod
November 14, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this
I keep seeing Zito’s name thrown around as a possible trade for ATL. Just curious, is he on the trading block?
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 11:39 AM | Link to this
Astro, Smoltz won’t have to go 225+ if somebody, anybody, can come out in the 7th without making us all run for the fallout shelter! I’m a Sosa believer who believes he only has upside… and let’s not forget John Thomson. He’s been largely overlooked since becoming a Brave, but is a solid 3 when healthy. Isn’t a healthy rotation every team’s concern? Zito/Washburn/Vasquez chew up too much of JS’s limited resources, which must be directed toward righting a tilting bullpen. Also, don’t give up on HoRa, yet. He, too, is still a youngster with a wealth of talent. Davies is perfectly suited for the 5 spot in 2006, but look out for Chuck James - a real up & comer… I’ve already named 6 potential starters w/o naming Hudson, remember him? The rotations fine. Bullpen… bullpen… bullpen… bullpen…
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this
Astro Joe, don’t forget Thompson. LeTwan agrees that the team could use more pitching and he has been harping for a power pitcher. Millwood sounds better to LeTwan than Zito for that reason. Smoltz may or may not have the gas to do it another season. He’ll be a year older. If he goes … it won’t be pretty. Still, Smoltz, Hudson, Sosa, Thompson, Davies and Ramirez has the potential to get it done over and over. Now, who’s gonna hold a lead for ‘em?
Carroll, there you go messin’ up Thanksgiving. LeTwan doesn’t want Bobby anywhere near his pumpkin pie. Now, Mama might send him a piece of pie because Mama’s a baseball fan, too, but she won’t have him to her house because she don’t allow no one to stick things under the dining room table. By the way, nice third person, segue, Carroll.
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 12:01 PM | Link to this
Carroll…
Because I only use one name. I don’t have voices in my head telling me different things, whackjob. Try it!
So long as there are snippity, arrogant folks who trash someone who disagrees with them, and uses racist comments often to get their point across, there’ll be reason for confrontation.
It’s truly appalling to see a smug punk like Carroll try and use religion to try and put himself above others. The only “demons” on the boards, Carroll, are you and your pseudonyms. How many are you up to, now? You’ve proven to us that you do sign on w/ so many different names… how many are you not even admitting to?
‘Cause it’s funny, to me, that recently, you’ve found (or created) some folks who side with you on here, when it wasn’t all that long ago the vast majority of us who discussed Braves baseball here just ignored you and shrugged your demeanor off to a psychological malady.
Most of those who now side with you weren’t even around during the offseason, spring training, or the regular season.
Odd, ain’t it?
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this
Did RR just take a left-handed swipe at me?
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this
GOOD point about Smoltz and his innings. If we shore up the ‘pen, we can start bringing folks in in the 6th and/or 7th innings!
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this
Astro Joe, don’t forget Thompson. If Smoltz goes down it won’t be pretty. Still, going in with Smoltz, Hudson, Sosa, Thompson, Ramirez, and Davies will be very strong. Of course, someone may go in a trade. LeTwan likes power pitchers and would prefer Millwood over Zito. Who knows if that could happen? The real issue is if these guys get a lead who’s gonna hold it for ‘em?
Down and away is pretty boring stuff, and if you don’t get the call … Down and away doesn’t win in the playoffs either, does it?
Carroll, there you go again ruining LeTwan’s pleasant thoughts about Thanksgiving. LeTwan doesn’t want Bobby anywhere near his pumpkin pie. Now, Mama may send Bobby a piece of pie, because Mama’s a Braves fan, too, but she’d never have Bobby over to her house for pie because she don’t allow nobody to stick things under the dining room table.
By the way, Carroll, nice segue into third person. You are showing much promise.
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 12:09 PM | Link to this
Voice, sorry… dunno what I’d said that you felt was aimed at you. I’ve read nothing malicious from you to warrant any such venom.
I actually thought your words were a breath of fresh air, frankly.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this
LeTwan apologizes for the double post to Astro Joe. LeTwan thought he lost the first one. LeTwan is going to do something else for awhile if you know what I mean. G’day.
By Carroll
November 14, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this
California Raisins: see exhibit A above. Please don’t get like that…I dont have the stamina to deal with multiple demons. So far you’ve been great.
LeTwan: Millwood would be okay but I heard that he’ll comand 10-12 mill per, 4-5 years. His agent is Scott Boras, and you know how irrational that situation can get. I’d rather go with Matt Morris for 4 mill per, 2 yrs.
By the way LT, does your momma put raisins in her stuffing?
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this
Voice of Reason… just rememble who called you “Voice of Blind Loyalty” right off the bat, too, k?
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this
RR, no harm no foul.
LeTwan, let’s not mention BC sticking anything under the table in the same breath as Pecan Pie. I’ve never figured out what that stuff in between all the pecans is, and I really don’t need that visual…
Rod, the A’s are sticking a finger to the wind on Zito simply to gauge the market. Nothing serious at this point…
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this
Here’s a question… what would ya’ll be willing to send the A’s for Barry Zito???
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this
The Voice of Reason does not choose sides in a personal dispute. I’m like Switzerland, just not as cold and hilly. (I didn’t mean to go third person there; must be LT’s influence.) However, RR does seem a little testy… kinda came in with guns-a-blazin’.
I think I’ll be a productive member of society a while…
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this
There was supposed to have been an “adios” at the end of my last post, so… Adios!
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this
Oh, it’s all good, man… you’d have to know the months-long backstory, anyhow. It’s trivial and silly, really… I just thought I’d remind ya who labeled you “Voice of Blind Loyalty” right off, to give you an idea what you’d deal with if you dared to have a differing opinion. Your name gets maligned, you get called idiot/moron/etc. etc.
Then, alluva sudden “other” names appear from out of nowhere to agree with whomever you disagree with, and next thing ya know, you’re fighting off a misperception concocted by one goofball ya should’ve just ignored to begin with.
I’m a passionate Braves fan, Falcons fan, Bulldog fan, too… All that passionate (I’ll give ‘em that, it is passionate, anyhow) talk about firing people and trading people isn’t usually a sensible decision, but more an emotional response, though. It’s just like ramming your head into a wall trying to counter the discussion, though.
So when they can’t just discuss or debate, it gets childish. And stupid me, I just follow suit. D’oh well.
By Rod
November 14, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this
If Zito is offered at a fair price, it would be stupid not to obtain him. However, as I read, it is nothing serious, just testing the market value for him. (Thanks voice). We all know the pen is the main cause of concern for this team. I’ve heard some pitchers wanna come here badly. (Jones).
By Carroll the demon slayer
November 14, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this
I think Zito would be a huge mistake. That’s too much money and propsects we’d have to give up for yet another finesse, soft tossing hurler. Get Matt Morris for much less $$$$ AND without giving up any talent in a trade. USe the savings to get us some bullpen hosses.
Godbless all, Carroll.
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this
Personally, I don’t think the Braves should toss out prospects for another corner-of-the-plate pitcher, like Barry Zito. The other consideration is, do we add another hefty contract to our roster’s payroll, when the huge figures we pay Chipper, Andruw and Smoltz already leaving very little to pay the rest of the 25 man roster.
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this
Personally, I don’t the Braves need to get another soft-tossing “corner-of-the-plate* starter with hefty contract baggage. We already have the burden of Chipper’s, Andruw’s and Smoltz’s huge figures, which leaves little for the rest of the 25 man roster.
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this
Oops. Thought it didn’t make it. grin
By SouthernJackass
November 14, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this
I think.
By Carroll the demon slayer
November 14, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this
We finally agree on something! I guess my efforts paid off after all.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this
LeTwan wasn’t going to post anymore today but he makes it so easy for LeTwan … who is reminded of an old Beatles’ Favorite.
“Day after day alone on a hill the man with the fool grin is keeping perfectly still, But nobody wants to know him, they can see that he’s justa fool and nobody likes him.”
Now, Mama is gonna read this and get mad at LeTwan and I may not get the pie. I think I may have owed him at least one, though. LeTwan will confine his posts to baseball when he returns. Hear that, Mama?
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this
LeTwan wants to get one more out of his system before DOB returns with a new topic.
On a slow blog day, LeTwan is reminded of a story he heard about two Braves players who had stopped at a Hooters late after a game. There they were sitting and talking with two beautiful Hooters girls when Chipper’s cell phone rang. “Oh, %$#, it’s my wife. There’ll be trouble now. I have to answer.”
“Uh, hello honey, how did you know I was at Hooters?”
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this
Wow. All those posts, so closely timed together like that.
Odd.
Don’t pride yourself on accomplishing anything, dude-tte. Your thoughts have no bearing on the way I think about my team. Trust me. I never once pounded the “trade Andruw” drums. Never. But then I never logged on with so many diff. names to get my thoughts across, either. I just post ‘em and if folks agree, cool, if they don’t, cool, too. It’s called “discussion.” And Carroll, you and your pseudonyms put the “dis” in discussion. Matter of fact, ya put the “cuss” in it, too.
By Biff
November 14, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this
Letwan, sorry to bail in the middle of a conversation last night.
Yeah, I agree 100% on Drew. It WAS a gamble to win a WS, and didn’t pay off. Back to that ol’ “glass half full or half empty” thing; should we credit JS for taking a shot, or blame him for giving up some young talent? Like I said, very few guys we’ve given up that I really would give the world to have back. And here we sit with tons of young pitching coming up, so not sure how much harm is done.
I also would like to see Farnsworth back unless we sign BJ Ryan (and no indication that we will).
By Astro Joe
November 14, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this
The reason I forgot John Thomson is because I didn’t see much of him this past season. Going into the season depending on Houdini Sosa, IR Thomson, Home Ramirez and Ole Smoltz is a huge mistake. These guys are only slightly more reliable than the Jordan/Mondesi outfield gamble. If the bullpen has to come into EVERY game in the 6th inning (except for Hudson’s games if his splitter is working), then we will need to make sure LaRoche is ready to pitch a few innings each week. And maybe we can have Furcal pitch some relief, on those days when he isn’t playing SS or 2B or CF.
By Biff
November 14, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this
Anybody have any thoughts on Scott Eyre of SF? Lefty, had a good year out of the pen for them last year. His agent says every team is interested (that good ‘ol “agent talk”). He had a pretty good KO ratio last year. I mean as a set up guy, not a closer. I don’t really know “his stuff”.
By Carroll the demon slayer
November 14, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this
That’s okay Ron….it’s normal for the lingering effects to last for a while. But everyone can now clearly see what I’ve been saying all along. I agreed with you, even try to be nice to you, and look what you do…..back to the jackass routine. I will not lose my patience though.
By Carroll the demon slayer
November 14, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this
Biff: he’s most likely going to the Yanks, as is Farnsy.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this
Hey Biff, enjoyed blogging with you, man. LeTwan has been reading the NY papers and they think Farnsworth is leaving Atlanta - hometown, or no. Somebody needs to smoke ‘em in the 9th inning. Pena, Senor Smoke, Wohlers, Smoltz - that’s the kinda closer you want. If Farnsy goes, there are a few options. Let’s hope McDowell can help make a difference with Some of the guys we have - or that JS will spend as much on the pen as he can to get it right.
Astro Joe, you are right that we need more innings from the starters … but, not from Smoltz. If they can turn it over with a lead maybe somehow, someway, JS can find a way to fix the pen so games aren’t lost there so frequently.
If Furcal pitches it’s gonna be a long toss from Chicago or New York.
By Rod
November 14, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this
So the only consistantly good pitcher in our pen is leaving. (Except for his bad outing in game 4). I’ve been reading where JS is exploring trades for the pen, and is expected to be active this offseason. Haven’t heard any names tossed around though.
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this
I gotta tell ya… I’m not fully in Farnsy’s corner. He’s got incredible stuff, but any MLer can hit a 100mph straight fastball (his has NO movement) when he sees it 10 times in a row. His greatest stint of success last year came when he mixed in the slider… kept hitters off stride. Think back on his last outing in the NLDS. Every pitch was a high 90’s fastball… nothing else. Worse, you could see him shake off his catcher! Is he coachable? He had one of the best coaches, learned to mix it up, and when it came to crunch time, he wouldn’t get with the program. I personally don’t know, but my observation is that he’s no different from his days in Chicago and Detroit - a wealth of physical gifts, but a little thick upstairs.
By Biff
November 14, 2005 02:52 PM | Link to this
VOR, I agree with you in general, but the numbers don’t really bear that out with KF. For 3 years the ERA is well under 2.5, and the strikeouts are up there. Someone, I think Carroll, pointed out a while back that it’s just that he seems to give up the hits at the wrong time. I don’t know if that’s just dumb luck, or a head problem, like you say, that maybe McDowell could work on. But he wouldn’t be my first choice either.
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Biff… a 2.25 ERA and high SO’s are great, but you can’t give up big hits at the wrong time as a closer, and I think that’s the only role JS would pony up any $$$ for.
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this
I’ll even step out enough to say that IMO, closer is the single most important task that JS has this offseason.
By Carroll the demon slayer
November 14, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this
The more I think about it, I think we should get a solid veteran closer on the cheap, a la Todd Jones. That way we can bring along Devine and groom him as the closer with Jones being an insurance policy. Ideally it would work out that Jones would be the 8th inning guy and Devine would blow ‘em away in the 9th. But Jones would be serviceable as closer if Devine didn’t work out.
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this
Carroll, I hate to completely agree with anybody, but I completely agree with you. Devine/TJones is an ideal scenario. That may, of course, raise the eyebrows of RR, but I assure you, I am an entirely seperate entity and have received no compensation for that endorsement.
By Biff
November 14, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this
Agree that closer is job 1 (I think we all agree on that?). Jones scares me a little as he’s really only had 1 good year, and has been pretty mediocre for about about 10. But, if we could sign him for 1 year, I do think it would be a good move and hopefully he could do the job. Even if he reverts to form he’d be “useful” if not “the answer”.
By Rod
November 14, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this
I think Jones would be a good set up man for us. He still has good stuff, won’t be to expensive, and from what I read, he wants to pitch in Atl pretty bad. As for Devine, I think another year in the bigs is what he needs before we give him the nod in the 9th. Let him be a spot closer this year, and maybe get an arm for one year to close.
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this
Perhaps Senor Smoke for a year?
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this
Sorry, LeTwan, you evoked the Senor Smoke reference a little earlier. (Gotta give LT his props… Mama’s pie is on the line…)
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this
“Thick upstairs?” Watch out, Raisins, or the fans will be all over you. LeTwan once suggested that Number 10 was a crayon or two short of a full box and LeTwan was set upon by others. Since you’re new, LeTwan thinks they’ll give you a pass. Plus, we all remember that ninth inning, don’t we?
Biggest game of the year. Can’t hold a five run lead. A slam and a game tying HR. LeTwan thinks you guys are right on the money with Farnsworth. Wrong pitch - wrong time.
Logic says if you can’t do it in the playoffs - you’re not the right guy to run out there time after time. Oops, can’t go there either.
It will be very interesting to see what McDowell will bring this team. Reliever teaching relievers? Might just work.
By Biff
November 14, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this
Letwan, I can’t help but ask… would you take Lidge in a trade for a catcher and someone like KJ? He couldn’t get it done in the playoffs but I’d take him in a heartbeat. This question is posed in the spirit of peace, love and harmony.
By Carroll the demon slayer
November 14, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this
I’d take Lidge in a heartbeat. His was an abbhoration (sp?) whereas Farnsy’s is a trend.
Just read that Javier Vasquez demanded a trade. Chumper for Vasquez? I know it’s crazy, but still….would be nice.
By Carroll the demon slayer
November 14, 2005 03:47 PM | Link to this
I also like the idea of Yhency Brazoban. And has anyone heard anything about Trevor Hoffman? Would he be too expensive?
By Voice of Reason
November 14, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this
I’d pay the bucks for THoff, the question is similar to Furcal: How many years does he want? I personally wouldn’t go longer than 2.
By Rod
November 14, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this
From what I read, the Braves are looking at Hoffman and Wagner, but it all depends on Furcal. Even if he leaves, they may still be to expensive, so I really don’t know.
By Pocahorner
November 14, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this
MLB.com ran a story a few days ago about Hoffman. The Pads offered him two years, $10M. Hoffman countered with three-years, $25.5M. Pads said no, Hoffman cleaned out his locker.
By Biff
November 14, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this
One of those sites we’re not supposed to read estimates hoffman resigning with SD for 2 yrs, 13m.
By C K
November 14, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this
Bye Furcal and welcome home Nomar. nuff said
By Rod
November 14, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this
Nomar? Not happening. WB or Lugo will play short before Nomar.
By Pocahorner
November 14, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this
The bidding war for Wagner between the Mets and Phillies will be so bloody, JS will stay very far from the action. Read that the Mutts will spare no expense to sign him. Plus, the article said that Wagner wanted to stay close to his Virgina home.
Is it me or does it seem the Mets and Yankees are rumored to be involved in EVERY must have FA transaction. Truth or agents trying to jack up the price?
By Pocahorner
November 14, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this
Biff: Wow! The first significant FA signing of the year….if it’s true. Did the site say Hoffman was going to play centerfield too? (HA!)
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this
Biff, good point. Lidge was quoted as saying he’d take back only one pitch in the NLCS - the one to Pujols. Sometimes hitters win. Ours don’t very often in the playoffs, but sometimes hitters win.
The Cardinals had seen so much of Lidge that it’s inevitable somebody’s gonna guess right and hit him sometime. After that, he became mortal. He was mortal in the Series.
It’s more than just throwing well, there are some mental aspects that come into play. Smoltz was on top of that part as a closer. As a young pitcher he was a mess and had to rely on a sports psychologist to get his focus and determination in synch. One day, Wohlers went from lights out, like Lidge, to can’t hit the mitt. He was a mess when he left.
Farnsworth didn’t do it for the Braves in the elimination game. Will he do better next time? Will Devine ever overcome his misfortune(s)? Don’t you love baseball?
LeTwan would trade for Lidge right now. A 97mph fastball and a vicious slider would look good out there. Farnsworth has the physical tools but the Cubs, Tigers, and Braves all seem quite content to let him pitch for somebody else. Why is that? IDK.
Peace, love, and harmony are good things. LeTwan will save you some pie.
By C K
November 14, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this
Nope Lugo will not be coming here …price will be too high but Nomar can be attained for a bargain this year and give us a chance to develop betemit. I would howevert like to see luogo if it were possible.
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this
Meanwhile, as Carroll continues with his “holier than thou” mantra….
Hey, Voice…nothing’s wrong about agreeing with Carroll… it’s when you disagree with him that you’ll face his wrath. Kinda like when he bolted onto Chop Chick’s recent blog and immediately went the name-calling route with you, dubbing you the “Voice of Blind Loyalty.”
This ‘superiority’ complex of his is beyond nauseating, and trust me, having blogged here for many many months, I know the track record well enough to say so. Give it time. I have faith in his abilities to eventually rub you the wrong way as well.
To actual freaking baseball…
If they retained Farnsworth, the Braves wouldn’t have to go get a big money closer with the bigger price tag. And as someone mentioned earlier, they could start grooming Devine for the role I believe he’s destined for. I’m hearing that the Yanks are interested in him (and just about every player with a pulse, apparently), so something tells me they’re looking at having a 1-2 punch similar to what we’d have if we kept him around.
Like it or not, Reitsma’s signed through next season, and I think he’s still a good middle-relief guy, on more nights than not. Plus, having McBride and Foster to bring further along, I don’t see the Braves having to break the bank to make this bullpen work. They definitely learned their lesson with Dan Kolb, though. Gosh, how many of us wondered aloud, before spring training, about them going for a closer from Milwaukee!!! who wasn’t a “strikeout” guy??? That had disaster written all over it, and as good as Schuerholz has been, that’s a BIG ol’ black eye.
By Biff
November 14, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this
Poco, I said it was an “estimate.” Sounds to me like it’s in the ballpark, but I’ll defer to your sources.
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this
Ya know, if JS went for J.D. Drew and won on that gamble, it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see him do the same with Nomar.
By Pocahorner
November 14, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this
Carroll: The Dodgers traded Mota to the Fish in 2004 because they had great faith that Brazoban would be a better set-up man for Gagne and then their future closer. They weren’t wrong. When Gagne went down in spring training, Brazoban was lights out as closer (11 of 12 chances, including 10 consecutive opportunities from April 13-May 13). Overall, he converted 21 of 27 save opportunites.
As much as I’d like JS to trade for him, I don’t think the Dodgers would give him up (not knowing what they have in the system to replace him). JS would probably have to give someone of equal value and a few other ready for the majors players.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this
The Cubs told Nomar to “find a better fit”, with another club. NY Daily News says it may be with the Twins.
By Pocahorner
November 14, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this
No problem Biff. I just flashed over your response and misread it. Who knows what sources are right. I just got my $$$ amount from a MLB.com article that may have been ghost written by Hoffman’s agent.
By Biff
November 14, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this
I like Nomar a lot…always have, but I just don’t see where he fits our needs right now. I like WB and hate to see him sit (or traded) but if we’re going to do so, I hope we address leadoff in the process. I still think JS is more likely to address leadoff with a corner outfielder than with a SS, unless we can get Lugo.
Poco…it’s all good. And, DOB would be furious if he knew where I got my numbers.
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this
If the Braves take a “J.D. Drew” on Nomar in ‘06 and he pays off, he solves the leadoff problem. He has a career .320 batting average, and THAT is precisely what the top of the Braves’ order has always lacked - a guy who hits for average. But him in leadoff with Giles (.292 career BA) right behind him, followed by Chip, Andruw, LaRoche, Francouer, Langy, (whoEVER our catcher will be) and our pitcher, and WOW, what a lineup!
By Pocahorner
November 14, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this
Biff: ESPN Deportes? How could you!!!! And right on about Nomar.
I said this a few times, Nomar is NOT the answer. Although he won’t command the $8M he got from the Cubbies, he won’t sign for pennies on the dollar. That money can be better spent on the bullpen. Plus, Betemit proved last year that SS is his job to lose this year. JS/BC will give him that chance. And if you didn’t check out VOR’s link to Yunel Escobar stats, or read my earlier post of the SS canidates we have in the minors, do so and you’ll know why Nomar shouldn’t and won’t be a Brave next season.
By LeTwan Anthony
November 14, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this
Leadoff is a problem, huh? No natural leadoff on the team. LeTwan thinks it doesn’t matter so much who bats leadoff now. Better to be solid at SS and LF.
JS is gonna surprise us and give us something new to talk about. DOB might check in, too, in a little bit.
Chorus: But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down and the eyes in his head see the world spinning round
Can’t shake that song today.
By Pocahorner
November 14, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this
Ooops. I meant to say … “Everyone who wants Nomar, check out VOR’s link…”
By Biff
November 14, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this
You guys read DOB’s 4 pm blitz? Do we move it over there?
By Pocahorner
November 14, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this
Darn LeTwan, now I’m humming the song….
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this
I look at it like this…
I loved Wilson Betemit and the way he played last year, but there has to be some lingering doubts in the braintrusts’ collective mind about him. He struggled for so long in the Braves farm system, and though he did so well at the Major League level… do you want to put the Braves WS hopes on him, just yet?
That’s why the Nomar talk intrigues me. If Nomar pans out, great. If he doesn’t, we have Betemit. Better yet, having Betemit around to platoon for either Nomar or Chipper (both are starting to show their age) might be an insurance policy for both positions.
It’s intriguing to consider, anyhow.
By Pocahorner
November 14, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this
Didn’t know DOB posted. Was waiting. I think we do move over Biff…
By Jake
November 14, 2005 11:48 PM | Link to this
In my eyes, I want the Braves to sign Furcal more than anything so the Mets don’t get him. Lets face it, the Mets will get whoever they want and eventually, the Braves won’t be able to keep up. It looks like the Mets are very close to signing Wagner so as a Braves fan, this is getting scary. We can say all we want that in the past, signing Glavine, Pedro, Carlos..etc haven’t gotten the job done for them yet but lets face it, Glavine has turned it around, Pedro is Pedro and with Wager closing and Furcal leading off, that would be very hard for the Braves to contend with. So you can see why Wilson Betemit playing shortstop and no REAL lead off guy makes me a little weary.
By Carroll
November 15, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
Less than Jake: the Mets have been doing that (trying to outspend us…even taking our guys away from us) for the last decade and it’s never worked. Let them keep trying. After all, the clinical definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results.