Braves

By braves fan

October 17, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this

Mr.DOB, I believe the author of the online report that you speak of above is named Carroll the Buffoon.He advocates just letting Furcal walk for the simple reason that he does not like Furcal.No valid baseball argument just a personal issue.

By big boy

October 17, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

giles will be gone and furcal will be signed.

By curtell noble

October 17, 2005 05:16 PM | Link to this

Hey why don’t the braves try to get some starting pitching, instead of re-signing furcal…As the Astros and the White Sox have showed us staring pitching wins and the braves need some staring pitching to compensate for the loss of hampton.

By Andrew

October 17, 2005 05:39 PM | Link to this

Well furcal is the glue of the defensive team along with Andruw Jones. Can u really trust Wilson Betemit at SS for 162 games? I know i can’t. They have to find a way to re-sign F*******. He was on fire the last 4 months of the season and starts everyting at the top of the order. The Braves have 3 good starters already and Thomson was injured most of the season and Horacio is getting better and better, just needs to cut down on walks and HRs.

By John

October 17, 2005 05:52 PM | Link to this

Hey, you just have to have Furcal. Let Chippie go, he stays hurt all the time and he is an embarrassment when he talks.

By AZBravoFan

October 17, 2005 05:53 PM | Link to this

Get starting pitching? Were you watching the same season? I think we’ll be fine with a healthy Smoltz, Hudson, Sosa. Then the other 2 spots will go two either Ramirez, Thomson, Davies, Chuck Smith, Lerew, whoever distinguishes himself in spring training. We only need to spend on Starting pitching if Smoltz’s shoulder is still a problem. I agree that it would be nice to have Farnsworth, but only at our price. I think the pen should be built like the Astros, mostly from within, with a couple of key veterans mixed in. It would be nice to see Devine, Boyer, McBride, et al develop into a Wheeler/Qualls/Lidge type monster. And you gotta keep Furcal. Too hard to replace his speed and arm. Finally, if we lose TP to the managerial ranks, what do people think about replacing him with Dave Justice? Don’t know if he has any coaching aspirations, but he was the last REAL clutch hitter that the Braves had.

By Matt

October 17, 2005 06:02 PM | Link to this

Ok, here’s something to chew on. The Braves also have a choice to keep John Thompson on. If that were to happen, the Braves will have Smoltz-Hudson-Thompson-Davies and Ramirez as the rotation. If this happens, would you deal Horacio for a good SS and take a chance on another young arm from the minors, or do you keep him and take your chances trying to either sign a SS or Furcal back? Also, what happens if the Braves don’t offer arbitration to Giles (which I doubt would happen)? Do you go after another 2B or move Benemit over there? So many questions to answer…thank goodness I’m not the GM! =D

By Ron Roberts

October 17, 2005 06:17 PM | Link to this

I think Furcal’s a given, frankly. But Matt brings up an interesting thought… what IF the Braves don’t offer arbitration to Marcus Giles, and it’s GILES that walks? If Wilson Betemit’s legit, then he WOULD be more suited to replace Giles than Furcal. He’s at least as quick as Giles, and he showed last year that he can hit MLB pitching for average, which is all the Braves ask out of Giles.

Do I think the Braves WILL go that route? I hope not. We read people talking about a “spark” in the clubhouse, and I think Giles provides that tenacity. But if it comes to saving money AND keeping this team within playoff reach, they may find that option worth considering. I don’t advocate it, but we’ve seen stranger things happen.

As for the rotation, I agree - it’s fine. Smoltz, Hudson, Sosa, Ramirez and either Thomson or Davies will do fine for us. It’s the BULLPEN !!!! that needs fixing and we’re at LEAST on the level of the other playoff teams this year.

By Carroll

October 17, 2005 06:29 PM | Link to this

Braves fan: tisk, tisk…interesting that you and “david” from the “going going gone” blog share the same email addy.

“You are one pathetic loser”

But you’re absolutely right….I want rid of Furcal just because I hate him. It has nothing to do with the fact that every year he’s played for the Braves we’ve never gotten out of the first round. It has nothing to do with the fact that if we throw mad dough at him, we’ll be left with a helpless bullpen AGAIN! Nope….it’s just because I hate him.

ANd Mr. O’brien (david?), perhaps the author of the “online report” just has a little more foresight than you and some other simple minded “braves fans”. It’s not to say that WB is as good as Fooky straight up…he’s not…BUT letting Fooky go and replacing him with WB at a fraction of the cost, thus allowing us to spend more on pitching (relief in particular) will give us an overall better package than that of fooky plus retarded bullpen. PLus, as I pointed out the other day, we’ve won more and gone further in the playoffs when we lacked that “prototypical”, speedy leadoff man (see 1991, 1995, 1996, 1999, 1998, 2001). So save that tired argument. Bottom line: we need more pitching…if that means fooky has to walk then so be it! His defense and leadoff abilities and speed and great arm mean NOTHING if we can’t shut teams down with starters and keep them down with the pen (see 2000, 2002-2005)!

By Carroll

October 17, 2005 06:40 PM | Link to this

And to prove my point, you need look no further than the two teams that will likely meet in the WS: ChiSox and Astros. Houston’s shortstop isn’t one tenth the talent of Furcal (he’s prolly not even as good as WB), their third baseman is about half of ours, their center fielder isn’t even in the same universe as ours, our first basemen are prolly a little better than their scabs, all other positions are about equal. The difference: starting and relief pitching. I’d trade Fooky to be in their shoes right about now with shutdown arms from start to finish! Same goes for the Chisox.

But, as usual, you guys get so bogged down with your silly little stats that you fail to see the big picture…you don’t consider the things that actually matter.

By Mike

October 17, 2005 06:46 PM | Link to this

Notre Dame played their hearts out. They just didn’t have the guts.

By wellnyc

October 17, 2005 06:58 PM | Link to this

in matters of bigger concern, the yankees were just given permission to talk to leo.

By Jim

October 17, 2005 07:06 PM | Link to this

Trade brittle old Chipper for bullpin help. Put Andy Marte at third and he will do just fine if he knows the job is his. Take Chipper’s extra money and give it to Furcal. We will still have Betemit and Orr for utility roles. While in a trading mood, get rid of Estrada for a middle relief guy. The catching is in good hands with McCann and Pena.

By WW

October 17, 2005 07:38 PM | Link to this

I like Giles, although he doesn’t impress me with his bat during the playoffs, but could we go after someone like Soriano? That was mentioned earlier this season. Soriano would bring youth, speed, power and experience with a championship team (Yankees). What about getting rid of Furcal and getting Wagner with that money because it seems the challenging part for the Braves is closing out games not the things before that. When’s the last time we had a TRUE, big time closer and not some guy that induces double plays (supposedly) and drinks too many “kolb” beers instead of staying in shape? Go back to the mid 90s. And what about signing a Mike Sweeney type player to play first? And if Leo goes……

By dave

October 17, 2005 08:18 PM | Link to this

chipper, furcal, giles….one of them has to go…chipper has a no trade clause and i don’t see another team taking on the cost of his contract…so he stays at least another year….furcal is going to cost too much to keep and he’s a little too streaky at the plate…..i think betemit is underrated, has a good glove and bat and the job is his to lose…giles, i’m not sure about him….he seemed to make critical errors as the season was winding down and during the playoffs…and that swing of his….if the braves hang on to furcal then send betemit to second…and give mccan, laroche, and estrada speed training in the offseason

By Jerry Holcombe

October 17, 2005 08:50 PM | Link to this

Carroll, you listed quite a few years where you say we didn’t have prototypical leadoff guys. Somehow, I got the idea that players like Otis Nixon, Deion Sanders, Marquis Grissom, and Kenny Lofton were prototypical, whether they stole a lot of bases or not. I will join the crowd that would like to see Furcal resigned. I’d rather not see him signed for $11 million a year, but if he would take $8 million per to stay, I’m all for it. The fact is, he just might win his first gold glove this year and he has more range than any other shortstop in baseball because of the strength in his arm. Those of you that are for Giles being traded so that some salary can be offset can forget it. Bobby loves Giles and a team would have to give up too much for Bobby to agree to trade him. I know that he isn’t the GM, but he normally gets to keep the players he wants to keep. I would like to see the team pick up the option on Thomson because you are not gonna get a good quality starting pitcher like Thomson for less. And remember that the team collects on the insurance money because Hampton won’t be able to pitch next year. They also have the $3.5 million from saying tata to Kolb. They also can save another $2 million by dropping Reeksma into a ditch on the side of a lonley country dirt road. He isn’t going to get any better, so he’s gone. I would like to see Boyer get a chance to close some games. The person that needs to be traded is Estrada. He’s a dead weight and all he does is hold McCann back. Trade him now while you can get something for him. The same could be said of either Betemit or Marte. I would trade one of them, but not both. Improving this team can be done without spending a lot of extra money. Also, I’ve heard that Terry Pendleton is interviewing for the Dodger’s managerial position. That would be a Godsend to get rid of him and get a REAL hitting coach.

By Bill

October 17, 2005 08:57 PM | Link to this

Gee, WW, I think the last time we had a big time closer (not one of those ground ball inducing types) was way back in 2004. The guy’s name was Smoltz. If only we could clone him.

I would like to see Furcal back but it all depends on money. Carroll has a point (oh no….I must be the same person as him just using another name — that story gets old, Carroll): If signing Furcal breaks the bank so that nothing can be done about the bullpen, then keeping Furcal is too expensive.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Braves spent a fair bit of money on the bullpen this past year (some of which didn’t buy much): Kolb made $3.4 m; Reitsma $1.65 m; Tom Martin (boy I hope the Dodgers had to pay his salary & not the Braves — the Braves might of had to eat his salary since they released him) made $1.9 m; Gryboski made almost $900 K (pro-rated due to the trade). Farnsworth’s salary was $1.975 million (with the Tigers paying most of it). Thomson made $4.25 m so not exercising the team’s option on him and replacing him with Davies or James could save money.

In terms of money for next year’s pen, start with the youngsters: Boyer, McBride, and Devine. They won’t take that much money and form a good nucleus for the future. Take Kolb’s money plus some and go after a closer (possibly Farnsworth since I think Wagner might be too expensive). The amounts paid to Reitsma and Gryboski should be enough to get a reasonable veteran set-up guy. One thing to remember is sometimes “cheap” vets have delivered quite well in the pen (Chris Hammond & Darren Holmes — as Jay Powell might have this year if not for breaking his arm). By the way, what ever happened to Buddy Hernandez down at Richmond this year? He had a good spring training and was on the cusp of making the team. He then dropped off the radar screen. I think that he might have gotten hurt.

My bottom line is that an upgraded bullpen and a reasonable offer to Furcal (along with another year of arbitration with Giles) might be possible. At this point, we will not know until December since Furcal will almost certainly file so that he can compare offers (the Braves are not rich enough to make him an offer that he can’t refuse).

By Carroll

October 17, 2005 08:59 PM | Link to this

Jerry: in the years I listed, we did not have that prototypical guy: 1991-Lonnie Smith; 1995-96-Marquis Grisson WAS NOT the “pototype”…by his own admission he was more of a 3 hole guy; 1998-walt weiss, wasn’t it? 1999-Gerald Williams; 2001-Marcus Giles. YEs we had a few decent prottypes like Nixon and Lofton but my point was that clearly we can get it done just as well without that prototype guy. We don’t need to overpay to keep Fooky just for the sake of having that prototypical leadoff man….especially since he’s not all that great at it, with his tendency to swing for the fences. WE NEED PITCHING!!!

By Ron Roberts

October 17, 2005 09:19 PM | Link to this

A few points…

1. We spend the time to let Furcal develop into a quality shortstop, then let him go? Stupid. The organization could’ve re-signed him for less in-season, and didn’t budge on their policy of negotiating during play. Oh well. They need to suck it up. His defense was at its’ finest for the FULL 162 game season, and postseason. his hitting came on after the All-Star Break. Let’s keep the guy and see what a FULL season of Furcal at full-throttle can do.

2. I don’t “advocate” getting rid of Giles, at all. I’d prefer we keep him, but if I had to choose between expendables, he’s more expendable than Furcal is. I only say that because, skill-for-skill, Betemit could match Giles’ abilities more than he could Furcal’s. I’d like to be greedy and keep ‘em both, though.

3. I almost pee’d myself when the “online report” author credited himself with being more knowledgeable than Dave O’Brien, who, oh by the way, COVERS the Braves. Let’s not forget who pushed for a dumping of Andruw Jones early in the season, too, though, ok?

It’s like this… our pitching is only effective when there’s a solid DEFENSE behind it. Let’s remember what Schuerholz did when he came to the Braves in 1991. He got SOLID defense behind his young arms. Did we score a lot? No, we had solid pitching and good defense. Ya let the premiere shortstop in the NL go to another team, and you can count on diminished pitching returns, too. Defense affects pitching, pure and simple.

If it takes some cutting somewhere to make the bullpen stronger, we have to look elsewhere. We have to look at our catching situation and strongly consider moving Estrada, I think. It’s time to also stop throwing $1 million cotnracts to Brian Jordans and Julio Francos and start throwing them at middle relievers with some resume’ to ‘em.

If we need more, we don’t pick up the option on John Thomson. When he’s healthy, he’s been very good for us, butm uh, he hasn’t been very healthy since September of 2004. He’s replaceable. With Smoltz, Hudson, Sosa and Ramirez in the fold, going after guys like Mike Timline (about $3.5 million) or Bob Howrey (about $2.9 million) for the bullpen, sprinkle in some of the kids we called up this year with them to learn the craft better, and give the fifth spot in the rotation to Kyle Davies.

Davies showed poise in his first MLB start, and never looked “rattled” in his MLB time. I think he has TREMENDOUS upside. Besides, he’s young, healthy, and CHEAP.

By Carroll

October 17, 2005 09:29 PM | Link to this

Yes and let’s also not forget that EVERYONE, including those who now try to deny it, begged and pleaded for Furcal to be benched and/or traded in favor of WB mid season…now those same people act like Furky walks on water and WB is not worthy.

By Carroll

October 17, 2005 09:37 PM | Link to this

Oh and while we’re talking about AJ, wise a*, let’s also not forget that JS came within an eyelash of trading him for Maglio Ordonez in 2004, and again for Kevin Freakin’ Brown last offseason….guess that makes him an idiot too according to your logic since he dared to consider trading the wonderful AJ, right?

And of course defense is key but when did WB show that his defense is not solid? He played stellar defense at 3rd, SS and 2b all year. Maybe not quite as good range as fooky but he does have an incredible arm-smooth, quick and accurate…and again I would refer you to the WS teams this year. Neither has a SS as good defensively or offensively as Fooky. But somehow that doesn’t make me feel much better since they’re actually playing in the WS and our Braves are watching it.

By WW

October 17, 2005 09:59 PM | Link to this

Good point Bill, but I guess I kinda knew Smoltzy would be back in the rotation so I didn’t count him b/c i would much rather have him starting than closing, i think??? If there’s anyone out there worth getting, it’s Billy Wagner! This guy is clutch and lights out! Not like Kolb, let’s not even start…And i think, probably to many ya’lls dismay, we need a better bat than Giles and his defense is replaceable as well, that’s why I suggested Soriano, I believe he could be trade bait but prob. too expensive but can you imagine he and Furcal up the middle and his bat, wow!

By Bill

October 17, 2005 10:54 PM | Link to this

You can suggest replacing Giles with Soriano — but Soriano made $7.5 m in 2005. I don’t see it happening for the Braves. Same goes for Billy Wagner. Unless one of the expensive players (Smoltz, Andruw, or Furcal) on the Braves goes elsewhere (typically creating a hole to be fixed), it is unlikely that they will be spending $9 m per year for a closer. And don’t suggest Chipper — I expect that a trade with Chipper in it would include the Braves paying part of his $17 m for 2006. (Chipper was the 10th highest paid player in the majors in 2005 — but I don’t think he was near the top 10 for productivity. This isn’t a knock on Chipper — I just think he is a bit below his MVP caliber years.)

By Stew

October 17, 2005 11:57 PM | Link to this

Joey Devine and Chuck James are our future. Let’s ditch Langerhans and trade for Carlos Lee.

By Steve

October 18, 2005 12:39 AM | Link to this

Carroll, I have been watching the Astros and White Sox. Their leadoff men are Scott Podsednik and Craig Biggio. I don’t think that it’s a coincidence that the teams they lead off for are successful. You don’t think having a good leadoff man doesn’t matter? Then why did Phil Garner move Biggio ahead of Willy Taveras in the order so late in the season. Taveras is twice as fast. But what matters isn’t so much stolen bases. It’s the ability to get on base, have your No. 2 guy make a productive out, and have your power bats bring them in. Furcal showed he can actually take a walk and get on base. You don’t think he should be kept? Just ask Chipper Jones and Andruw Jones what he means to them.

By Josh

October 18, 2005 01:08 AM | Link to this

I’d love to see what John Scherholtz could do with a $208,000,000 payroll like the Yankees instead of an $80,000,000 one…..bet we’d make it out of the first round then.

By Josh

October 18, 2005 01:14 AM | Link to this

And don’t forget that the Yankees need a center fielder and Andruw Jones just had an MVP season. They can afford him, and if Atlanta traded him it would likely free up a lot of $$$. Andruw’s my favorite player so I hope it doesn’t happen…..just throwing it out there, since it was brought up last off-season.

By Casey Hudson

October 18, 2005 03:40 AM | Link to this

Hey, John! You’re the embarrassment. It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant some of the Atlanta so called fans are.

“Duhhh let’s get rid of Chippie…”

Will someone get John his medication?

When you have a shortstop like Furcal, you have to do everything you can to keep him. Then, if there is anything left try to sign a reliever.

Even with all the injuries, our rotation was one of the best in baseball. We’ve got a lot of good young pitchers and the best defense in baseball. We just need some bullpen help.

By Ron Roberts

October 18, 2005 08:16 AM | Link to this

Carroll,

The difference between your wanting to trade Andruw and John Schuerholz entertaining offers was…

John was doing it in the OFFSEASON before a tremendous spring training, and not halfway into a season.

Is “wise * what you call those who can’t agree with your knee-jerk, over-passioned grasps at solutions? ‘Cause dude, there’s a TON of “wise *es” out there, and one of ‘em happens to be our GM.

The smartest thing you’ve said all season is:

Maybe not quite as good range as fooky

By Todd

October 18, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

Lets not forget that our fearless 3B, Chipper, has been a huge disappointment whenever the game is on the line. He is the consumate choker in big game situations and the playoffs. Check out his stats in the playoffs the last 3 years and you understand why we dont get out of the 1st round. Lets see if we can convince another team to take his contract off our hands and give the money to Giles and Furcal. Although I understand its a longshot.

By BB FAN

October 18, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this

Furcal proved he was a great player this year. But, it was only for 1/2 the season. I’m hoping it was because of the shoulder injury he supposedly had, and not him just deciding to play when he feels like it. It is odd that he finally became the gold glove SS we all thought he was in his Free Agent year. I’ve seen too many free agents get big money and then turn into an average player. (Adrian Beltre last year) I would like to see Furcal stay with the Braves but for no more than 4 years and 28 Million. If he wants more than that, let him go. I mean, what the hell is the difference between 7 mill/year and 9 mill/year if you are happy? He supposedly is happy in Atlanta.

The bullpen is horrible. That money can be used to improve it. The Braves will never get out of the 1st round w/o a better bullpen. I say start with Devine, Boyer, McBride, James and/or Lerew. 3 of those 5 should be good enough next year. Then sign a few solid veterens for setup roles. And maybe Tom Gordan to be the closer.

Smoltz, Hudson, Sosa, Davies and Ramirez will be fine starting. Maybe even Chuck James if Ramirez needs to be traded.

Estrada should be traded for sure. He will get a big increase through arbitration. (for doing nothing this past year) Giles could be traded as well. Betimit can replace him in the lineup. Giles tries to hit homeruns too often. Hitting second in the lineup, he had only 2 fewer strikeouts than Andruw Jones. That’s not acceptable.

Speaking of Andruw Jones, I was glad to see him have a such great year. He only struck out 112 times. Not bad for 50 homeruns. And a big improvement from his usual 130-145. I think if he were to get regular days off throughout the year, he would hit .285-.300. He looked tired the last 2 weeks of the season. Centerfield is a tough position to play when you play it like AJ. He always makes diving catches or crashes into walls. He needs about 12-15 games off over the year. I think that would keep him fresh for the whole season. He did well in the post season again this year, hitting over .400 with 5 RBIs. He missed a few RBIs in the 4th game, but so did everybody else.

And finally, I like the idea of Justice becoming the hitting coach. He would bring that intensity back to the hitters with the game on the line. You need a few intense guys like Justice.

By Terance

October 18, 2005 09:23 AM | Link to this

I think that the Braves really need to focus on the bullpen. The were able to score in the series, however the bullpen would come in and get in 2-0 counts before giving up the big hits to the opposition. You need some guys that come out of that bullpen and just throw strikes and not walk em. I rather see the relievers give up three solo shots than the grand slam.

Furcal can leave as far as I’m concerned. Management probably isn’t going to pay him market value. I believe you don’t have to spend big money of free agent position players, especially after the job that the rookies did this year.

So there you go, that’s my two cents

By Fabrizio Di Muro

October 18, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

In the words of Charlie Manuel earlier this year, the main objective when playing the Braves is to keep Furcal off-base. We have to re-sign him. DOB is right, where do you find a Gold Glove shortstop who can hit lead-off. I’d say that’s the hardest thing to find - even harder than a closer (look at how the Dodgers found Gagne, and we picked up Farnsworth halfway through the season).

Rollins is getting $8 million a year, and Cabrera is getting $10 million a year. I’ve compared their seasonal stats to Furcal’s in the past. They are pretty similar, and Furcal is younger, and plays better defense.

Given the way the market is shaping up, and given the recent history of past shortstop contracts, if the Braves want to keep this guy, they’d better offer a 5 year, $53 million contract to Furcal that is front-loaded.

Here is the salary situation as far as next year goes to the best of my knowledge:

Chipper Jones - $17M

Andruw Jones - $13.5M

John Smoltz - $10M

Mike Hampton - $8M

Marcus Giles - $5.2M (estimate)

Tim Hudson - $4M (as reported on AJC)

Julio Franco - $1M (estimate)

Jorge Sosa - $1M (estimate)

Adam LaRoache - $500 000

Jeff Francoeur - $500 000 (estimate)

Ryan Langerhans - $500 000 (estimate)

Kelly Johnson - $400 000 (estimate)

Brian McCann - $400 000 (estimate)

Kyle Davies - $400 000 (estimate)

Makay McBride - $400 000 (estimate)

Blaine Boyer - $400 000 (estimate)

Joey Devine - $400 000 (estimate)

Horatio Ramirez - $700 000 (estimate)

Pete Orr - $400 000 (estimate)

Wilson Betemit - $400 000 (estimate)

Now, I’m making some assumptions (John Thomson won’t be back), and I haven’t accounted for Furcal, 2 or 3 bullpen guys. Most of the young players, it is hard to say what they’ll get so I tried to make a reasonable estimate that was around the minimum, and yet a bit higher. (I tried to overestimate rather than underestimate).

Right now, according to my calculations, the projected payroll is $65.1M. The budget is $80M (or is it $82M)?

Unless I’ve grossly overestimated the salaries, then I don’t see how we can give Furcal the $10M or so per year that it is going to take to re-sign him, unless the Braves restructure some contracts, or make some trades. We might (might being a key word) be able to pay him $10M this year, but next year? Consider that next year, Hudson will be making more and so will Giles…..it doesn’t look like we can keep everybody.

By Carroll

October 18, 2005 09:31 AM | Link to this

BB: good points! Heck I wonder if Justice could still play (he can’t be older than BJ Jordan, right?)

Steve: the Cards don’t have the typical leadoff man, and they very well could win….and again, their SS doesn’t have half the tools of Fooky…but he gets the job done pirty good I think.

And by the way, Biggio is not the typical leadoff man either…he does a good job there, and he is the type of leadoff hitter I wish we could get (a lot like Grissom used to be)…someone with consistent gap and homer power in addition to speed. THis gives the bottom of the order more protection.

And you’re right about Podsednik being a good leadoff man…that’s why I advocated aqcuiring him last season in the Kolb deal before most people had ever heard of him.

And Ronnie, bless your heart…I guess you just don’t read too well…did you miss the part about JS almost trading AJ for Maglio Ordonez IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 2004 PENANT RACE??!! And if you don’t believe me, just search the ESPN archives…it was well-known.

By Marc

October 18, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this

This anti-Chipper sentiment is ridiculous—it’s like Philly fans booing Mike Schmidt. Yeah, he’s had some bad playoffs, but just about every top player has. I guess we wouldn’t want Barry Bonds because he had some bad playoff series. Or Ted Williams. Chipper is a HOF-caliber player that you want to trade—a guy that played through injuries and shifted positions. And,guess what, he is twice the hitter that Andruw is, playoffs or no playoffs. Look at their stats the second half of the season. I can’t understand this idiotic anti-Chipper sentiment. And even if we wanted to trade him, his contract is too big.

Giles is probably the better player over Furcal, but Furcal plays the more difficult position and would probably be harder to replace. As for trading Horacio for a GOOD shortstop, as someone suggested, just who do you think Horacio is going to bring? I guess other teams should give the Braves their best players in return for our marginal players—is that the way it works?

I’m convinced Furcal is gone regardless of talk about resigning him. The payroll is going up regardless and I can’t see the Braves being able to fit him in. And I tend to think Furcal is somewhat overrated. As much as people talk about what a great leadoff man he is, he is only good when he is hitting because he isn’t particularly patient. And, if you notice, the offense was just as productive, if not more so, when Furcal was struggling early in the season. His 2005 defense will be missed, but I don’t think he is the key to the team as everyone says.

By Ron Roberts

October 18, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

Carroll…

Bless YOUR heart. I’m not arguing against moves or possible moves JS has pondered. I’m trying to point out your radical and irrational (though impassioned) ideas.

There’s a REASON so many teams are salivating over Rafael Furcal’s possible departure from Atlanta. Frankly, it’s fans with that attitude you portray that makes me wonder why ANY good player would wanna come play for us. If a guy hit .320, you’d focus on the 68% of the time the guy didn’t hit.

Furcal’s a keeper. That’s my opinion. His 2nd half showed he’s come of age, and I’m not ready to have let this team invest so much in his development just to let him walk because he wants to make $2-4 million more than he made last season. When you see the market, what other prime shortstops in the NL make, uh, he’s worth it.

Letting him go ALSO makes a statement to the fanbase, as well. Telling fans that the franchise wants to continue showing up to support the team, despite it’s playoff setbacks, and oh by the way, they don’t plan on even keeping the starting nine as good, doesn’t exactly drive up season ticket sales, does it?

Keep him. Pay him. Upgrade the bullpen with the money the team will save on Kolb’s $4 million, with the $2 million the team DEFINITELY doesn’t need to re-spend on Julio Franco and Brian Jordan, and if they need more, decline the option on John Thomson and pocket THAT $4.5 million and put Kyle Dvaies in the fifth spot of the rotation.

But posting these passio-frenzied anti-“Fooky” comments because he’s one of a dozen people who couldn’t get a hit off the Astros’ bullpen in an 18-inning game is being near-sighted. The human body’s worn down after a full season, and come October, everybody’s banged up; hell, the guy PLAYED through shoulder pain to find his stroke midway through the season. That has to be worth something. It is to me.

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this

A quote from Kenny Williams the GM of the White Sox.Southtown News “While I do not comment directly about players under contract to other organizations,I will say that I asked on more than a handful of times about an impact offensive player from the Braves and was told repeatedly that he was not available”Carroll,never let facts get in the way of your stories.

By Ron Roberts

October 18, 2005 10:02 AM | Link to this

Marc,

Good post. I don’t agree with ya, but it’s a good, sane, sensible and civil post. :-)

By Ron Roberts

October 18, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this

braves fan….

HIGH FIVE.

By BB FAN

October 18, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

With the bullpen like it is, Furcal is not worth 10 million a year.If it is possible to drastically improve the bullpen and sign Furcal, then I am all for it. But the bullpen is what caused the Braves to lose to the Astros. Furcal’s defense is more important than his lead off abilities. The latter of which he only utilizes when he wants too. Him and Giles are too prone to swinging for the fences. One of them should go and Betimit can take over.

If I knew for sure that Furcal was the player he was the 2nd half of the season, then I would say keep him and trade Giles. However, I am NOT convinced he is that player. He has not proven he is a legitimate lead off guy for more than 1/2 season at a time.

I think by letting Kolb (3.9 mill), Reitsma (1.9 mill), Thomson (4.5 mill), Mondesi (1 mill) and Jordan (0.6 mill) all walk, the Braves should be able to improve the bullpen enough to compete for a WS ring next year.

Thats about 10 million dollars the Braves will have to spend even with the replacements for those players: Francoeur, Johnson, Boyer, McBride, ect are all rookies and should be close to the league minimum. I think BJ Ryan and/or Tom Gordan would be great fits for the bullpen. Both have closed and played for larger markets.

Of course, part of Hampton’s contract will be picked up by insurance next year, so that is another 5-10 million.

By Dave

October 18, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this

I personnally would LOVE to keep Furcal, but the Braves cannot afford the $40M price tag, not with Wilson Betemit available for 2006 and very good replacements in line in the minors.

BTW, Furcal is not a GREAT leadoff man. He does not bunt enough to take advantage of his speed, and too often swings for the fences instead of hitting for average. Giles can step in as the leadoff man, with Betemit as the #2 hitter. I do not think we would lose too much hitting wise with that combination.

While Betemit does not begin to match Furcal defensively, he is serviceable, and we can probably bring up one of the prospects to serve as a late-inning replacement.

Just my opinion, for what it’s worth!

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

Giles would be an absolute disaster as a leadoff hitter.You can make a good case for Giles as a good hitter for lower in the order.He can continue to swing for the fences and he would also bring some base-stealing ability to the table.Giles is a good player but not a top of the order hitter,he will not take pitches or play any semblance of small ball.He’s not suited for a number 2 slot either.You might even be able to make a solid argument for Giles as a 3 hitter if you have 2 people in front of him that set up the order.This is not to knock Giles as a player,let’s just get him in a spot that will be more suited to his talents and mindset.

By ATILLA

October 18, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this

Orr would be an excellent leadoff hitter,he is fast,scrappy,he can hit all over the field and he is a gamer. The question where do you play him? As for Furcal, he has a great range and an arm as strong as anybody’s, but he is not a good leadoff man.

By dannycardwell

October 18, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this

well boys, i see its back to business as usual. sureholtz screwed up big not signing furcal when he was struggling. that said, offer furcal a base salary of 6 million then lace the contract with incentives. ive said this for 2 years and i really believe it. most high profile players are greedy as hell. not all but most. and some agents, boras. offer furcal bonus incentives for on base percentage, stolen bases, batting average, playoff batting average and other things to the point he could make another 2 million plus if he just worries about getting on base and leaves his hank aaron bats at home. the same thing goes for giles. i love giles, but he and furcal stunk in the games we really needed them because they were only interested in home runs. dont worry about the jones boys they will be fine. starting pitching is already here, hopefully with thompson, but its here all the same. all we need right now id 3 good middle relief pitchers and a killer closer. if affordable i would sign farnworth to a 3 year deal. if not we got some good young guys waiting their turn. other than marte and pena all have looked great so far. bobby made a big mistake putting devine in a position to fail. the kid already had a long season going from a college season straight to the minors. i hope the short stint up here has not affected him mentally. he could help down the road. trade estrada and bring up the kid from class a to back up mccann. not pena, he is not ready. talk eddie perez into retirement, put him into coaching the kids. the future still looks good if sureholtz dont trade it away again. if langerhans is not the everyday left fielder next year bobby should be horse whipped. the kid got the shaft in mide season with the failed johnson experiment. langy could play center field for a lot of teams. he is legit.

By Ced

October 18, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this

Ummmmm…..has everyone forgot how Furcal played in the playoffs? He went like 1-20, REDICULUS!! and the one “hit” was a borderline one. I love Furcal, but everyone is making him seem to great. If we were to let him go we would still have a very good team offensively and defensively. Betemit could take his place and very well produce, Giles could lead off with no problem; matter of fact he’s more patient than Furcal. I hope we do keep Furcal but he doesn’t make our offense like everyone is making it seem, he makes it better but he doesn’t make it.

By Val

October 18, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

A thought that nobody has mentioned yet, and dont kill me for this idea. In game 4 John Thomson pitched 3 innings of great baseball. How about picking up his option as a closer. Just an idea.

By Braxton

October 18, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

Well, the biggest concern I have right now in the offseason is keeping Mazzone from the Yankees. You know the Yankees can grab him away w/ more money. I just HOPE & PRAY that he stays w/ his man Bobby. I know that JS gave the Yanks permission and did that knowing that he may need them for a trade one day w/ all their money.

By Braxton

October 18, 2005 12:30 PM | Link to this

Thomson doesn’t have closer material, like Smoltz had (3 devastating pitches), Wagner (98 MPH fastball, w/ a slider to buckle Ted Williams knees), Mo w/ the wood cutter, etc.

By Learned Hand

October 18, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this

Why are so many people here acting as if paying Furcal $2.5 -3 million more than he is already making is such a huge obstacle?

I think BB and others are correct, it’s not very diffucult to find the $$ to do it by subtracting 1-2 players that we all agree need to go…and are already gone I bet. It’s basic math folks.

I also think that NONE of the players that are arbitration-eligible are not replaceable, and in fact, several are very tradeable. I love Giles, but it’s just basic baseball to understand that replacing an exceptional(defensive) shortstop with power and speed is much harder than it is a second baseman who is average at best defensively who hits lots of doubles.

So if trading Giles is what is required to free money and grease the skids to trade the other arbitration eligible guys to get some relief help…then that is the better bullet to bite in my opinion.

Again, just using basic math…subtracting and then adding back in what it would take to sign someone…I see the Braves easily being able to free up $10-13 million…including the insurance money. If you add in a million or two more from Chipper who says he will restructure, there’s more $$$.

With that pool of money, we can resign Furcal, and yes, get Wagner(I’m guessing he’ll cost around 9 million) as well as add another setup/midddy relief guy we get back in trade.

Remember also that Smoltz’s contract expires after 08 and Chipper in soon after(assuming here they pick up Smoltz’s option for 07) which gives them the freedom to structure contracts(like Hudson’s) in such a way that it is not such a burden in the future payroll.

Comeon folks, take a deep breath and just look at the raw numbers.

By Learned Hand

October 18, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

Oh…one other point.

Letting Furcal goes brings nothing back..ok, a 1st round pick,but nothing that helps now.

Letting Giles go will bring back a benefit to the team now.

I think that is a point no one has considered yet but is a critical difference.

By Ron Roberts

October 18, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

Ok, I’m making a personal rule for myself.

I will stop reading a post and move onto the next one the MINUTE I come to an obviously mis-spelled word.

Some points…

John Thomson DID look good in relief. However, he’d been on the shelf most of the season, and was, frankly, the freshest arm we HAD, so I imagine, to hitters, his stuff was livelier than anybody elses. I like JT, but I worry about paying another $4.5 million for two weeks’ washup work in September. It’s a dicey proposition.

It should be noted that Furcal’s base salary last season was already at $5.6 million. So if he and his agent seek out an $8-9 million deal, big deal. Chipper’s already offered to offset some of his fat check next year to help the team get it done, we shave off Kolb’s contract (about $4 million), and, again, shed the $1 million salaries of Brian Jordan and Julio Franco. Are losing those two guys worth keeping Rafael Furcal? You’d better BELIEVE it is!

Let me also share a few things about Raffy that I don’t think many people took notice of.

During the first half of the season, when he only hit .254, he scored 53 runs and stole 29 bases. In the second half, when he hit .322, he scored 47 runs and stole 17 bases. He was consistent throughout the season, as well, in drawing a walk 1 out of 10 ABs, as well. That’s not a “league-leading” statistic on it’s own, but it shows that where it mattered, Furcal was consistent.

Oh, and he had a .981 fielding percentage, dropping from 24 errors in 2004 to 15 all of 2005. Nice.

By Fabrizio Di Muro

October 18, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this

As much as I love Furcal, we’d better hope Leo doesn’t go to the Yankees, as they are courting him…

As for John Thomson, he is gone, I think. We have capable starters who are cheaper.

The bullpen will have, I think, Boyer, McBride, Devine, Lerew, and then we need a 2 other relievers and a closer. I don’t think the Braves will pay big bucks for a closer. Wagner or Hoffman are probably too expensive. We’ll have to settle for a Gordon, Farnsworth or Todd Jones type closer.

Ron: I think it’s going to take 5 years and $53M to sign Furcal. I would argue as well that we should resign him. His seasonal stats are similar to Rollins and Cabrera, plus he is younger and plays better defense. Given these factors and the free agent market, I don’t think $8 or $9M a year will be enough — although I do hope you are right.

By Learned Hand

October 18, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

Fabrizio, what makes you think that it will take $53 million/5 years? Wouldn’t that put him ahead of Andruw and Hudson and Smoltz?

Given that he wants to stay here, I don’t think that he would want to put himself in that position as it may seem to teamates and fans as an overreach on this team. Another team maybe not, but on this team, I don’t think he would want that.

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this

Just nice to see a thoughtful and civil blog where differing opinions can be debated without being shouted down from the back by the village idiot!One very good point by Learned Hand-in that Giles can be moved and the Braves could receive a nice return,Furcal leaves and they receive a draft pick sandwiched between the 1st and 2nd rounds.This pick could turn out to be the next Albert Pujols OR he could turn out to be the next Brad Komminsk.

By Tony

October 18, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

Furcal is not a great leadoff hitter. Sure he had a great 2nd half, but so did Adrian Beltre and Carlos Beltran last…remember? I don’t trust players in contract years. If it’s a reasonable contract keep him. If he wants too much let him go. When he is in one of his horrid streaks, just imagine how bad the Chicago and New York media will eat him alive. Unlike the kind gentle people down in ‘lanta.

Giles and his overswinging, non-situational hitting is horrible to watch. He is not a dependable #2 hitter. If we had to let him go in order to sign Furcal or get relief help…then I say do it. HE IS REPLACEABLE. Hell they both are…

Chipper is an idiot. An embarassment when he is interviewed. Tobacco chewing adulterer, but he is the best hitter the Braves have…when he is motivated. Sure he is not clutch in the playoffs, but he is “the best” the Braves have.

Totally agree about Andrew…DAYS OFF PLEASE. Playing in centerfield in the hot Atlanta heat has to wear a person down.

see what we can get for La Roache, Francouer was way overhyped this year…he should be good, but not Babe Ruth. His swing needs work

By Braves fan

October 18, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

If Billy Wagner is available, that’s who the Braves should target. I know Furcal is important, but he had no bearing whatsoever on the series with Houston. The bullpen lost two games in that series. That has to be priority #1. The problem has been that the Braves always go the cheap route in the bullpen. They need to make some strong moves for proven relievers, like Wagner, and then worry about the position players afterward.

By BB FAN

October 18, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this

Tony, Glad somebody else sees the downside of Andruw Jones playing 162 games in center. I hope Cox realizes this soon.

I totally agree about Giles. The Braves should consider trading him. I would think Betimit could play 2B. However, I still would not give Furcal much more than 7-8 mill a year. The point was made more than once about contract years. So if he really wants to stay in Atlanta, he will not mind making 7.5 mill a year instead of 9.5. Players can be way too greedy at times. Atlanta is a great organization to play for: What other team can say they will be competative year after year? Let’s hope he takes some advice from Andruw about a contract.

I do not agree about Chipper Jones thing though. Too many bloggers agree with you.

CJ is a great ball player. He has made some mistakes in his personal life, but that is none of our business. We do not know all of the facts, so why judge him. He is only human, like the rest of us. Take a look in the mirror and ask yourself if you might make some of the same mistakes while having all the fame he has at such a young age. None of us can say for sure because we do not have the fame and attention.

The media feeds on professional players’ personal lives. And I think that is very disturbing. We should appreciate what he has done on the field. He is close to being a Hall of Famer some day.

By Sam

October 18, 2005 03:18 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry about Leo. He’s been with the Braves since 1979 and this isn’t the first time a team has thrown money at him. He loves working for Bobby. Furcal will be signed, Giles will be here too and the bullpen will be upgraded. Alls good in Braves World. Smile!!!

By Tony

October 18, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

BBFAN…did you read what I said about Chipper? I said in spite of his flaws, perceived or real…he is the best hitter the Braves have. Period. I could give a damn what he does in his personal life, unless it affects what he does on the field. Too me, he is a very inadequate leader, but a very good ballplayer.

Please get off Billy Wagner. He’s aging and will cost way too much. And he is hittable. I think we can do better with development and grabbing some a lil cheaper, but very effective. Why can’t we do like the Astros…and develop a closer? We did with it Rocker and Wohlers?…..

As far as the starters go….Who knows how long Smoltz, injury proned Hudson will hold up…This team has a lot of questions…

By Braxton

October 18, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this

You guys are looking at the wrong areas for the bullpen, yes Braves need a closer, but Farnsworth did a great job except that last playoff game. The problem with the bullpen was getting to Farnsworth.

Boyer went down w/ shoulder problems, Reitsma would blow up at anytime, Kolb could throw strikes, and when he did they were rockets out of the park or hard hit balls, Foster became the guy who would walk everybody that’s left handed.

I think Lerew with his split could be a closer for the future, but till then get a Todd Jones or trade for some bullpen help w/ Estrada, Kelly Johnson, or some minor leaguers

By Braxton

October 18, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

I would also like to keep Chipper and get rid of Franco and convert Marte in a first baseman to platoon with LaRoche. I think Marte could fill in at 3rd when Chipper needed a day off, then play first against lefties.

By Dan

October 18, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

Hard to blame low pay on poor post season performance seeing as furcal giles and the Jones boys representing the highest paid daily players on the team were 3-25 in the final game and left 10 people on base (the team as a whole left 35) Kinda suggests paying the right guys are more important than how much you pay. Unfortunatley Furacl is going to get more than he is worth, like glavine and maddox recently. The Braves should give him a fair offer but not the highest. He is a mediocre leadoff hitter (comon a good leadoff hitter is at minimum flirting with 300 all year), but I do have to say his defense improved quite a bit this year. We will see if he can keep it up. I disagree with those complaining about giles he is one of the best 2 hitters in the game. He led all second basemen in 2b, avg 6th, ops 5th, hits 5th fielding 9th. furcal 10th in avg, 8th hits, 7th ops, and 8th in fielding. Giles surpases furcal in all hitting dept and it is even magnified if you were to compare furcal vs 2 hitters instead of ss. Furcal had a nice second half but that only illustrates his inconsistency being his ending numbers still didn’t approach Giles. It would be nice to keep him but he is way overrated

By BB FAN

October 18, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

Tony, I know you said CJ is a great hitter, ect. I was commenting toward everybody that is pointing out his flaws. You were pointing out his flaws as well: calling him an idiot, and an embarrassment when he interviews. Who are you, or any of us for that matter, to judge his interview skills or his intelligence? I know I have never had to deal with my whole life on and off the field being under a microscope. Have you?

See, I did read your comments. I just don’t think they are called for. I’m not bashing you, I just don’t agree with comments have have been made by you and other bloggers.

I think you are wrong about the leadership thing. Over the last few years, he has become a very good leader. Last year, he pulled LaRoche aside. This year, I saw him going to the mound a lot with the rookie pitchers. And reports have said he has talked to the rookie hitters a lot as well.

I disagree with the media and fans for always putting players’ personal lives under the microscope as much as I disagree with players requesting crazy salaries. Anything on the field is fair game. And like you said, if it’s affecting his game…but only to a point. I remember Wade Boggs was going through a divorce and he hit like .260 that year. Many people (media included) suggested it was the divorce. Simply stating that is fine, as long as no details are revealed.

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this

Braves would be better off at the 2 hitter with a player that hit 270 with 5 or less HR if he could steal 25 bases ,work counts and give Furcal chances to run,and drop down a bunt when needed!Giles while a fine player is certainaly replaceable and is not suited for the 2 hole whatsoever.Batting avg. is a terribly overated stat.Giles is much more suited for lower in the order.

By BB FAN

October 18, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this

Dan, The bullpen blew game 4. As well as game 1 and game 3 for that matter. Yes, the Braves should have scored more runs as they had many oppurtunities to do so. However, it’s October, players are hurt and nursing injuries, etc. A 5 run lead in the 8th should be enough. The Braves need to address the bullpen before they should expect to play through the end of October and win the WS again.

By BB FAN

October 18, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

braves fan, agreed about the number 2 hitter. Giles is not a prototypical one. As Furcal is not a prototypical leadoff hitter either. Neither takes many pitches to work the count. Both are too eager to hit a homerun at times too.

By Ron Roberts

October 18, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this

Braxton made a VALID point that I think bears repeating.

Ya’ll can go get Billy Wagner all you want. But when our starter leaves a tight game in the 6th or 7th inning, it’s the MIDDLE RELIEF part of our bullpen that needs the MOST improvement. Throwing that much dough at one guy won’t fix the bullpen situation so much as throwing the same amount at SEVERAL serviceable, dependable guys. Wagner’s irrelevant if he doesn’t have a lead to come in and save, to begin with.

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 04:39 PM | Link to this

Agreed,Furcal needs to exhibit more patience also.The upside of Furcal far exceeds Giles if both players stay healthy and play to their abilities.Remember though,Furcal walks for very little in return and the Braves still have control of Giles and his contract.His contract and skills could still be used in a trade.Though let me say that I would prefer that the Braves retain both.There are other players that can be moved to keep the payroll manageable.The free agent market historically yields over-priced pitching and less value for your dollar.Carl Pavano being a prime example.Before anyone jumps in and says Yankees,let me point out that 4 other organizations offered the same financial package,The Tigers even topped the offer of the Yanks.I believe in pitching as the key but I believe the Braves would be better served with producing their own arms or look for a Sosa type trade,where they can acquire a quality arm and help that pitcher become a very good major league pitcher.Keep in mind Pavano got 10m last year and Burnett will get 10m this year,those prices will determine the market for other hurlers.That’s a scary market to be in.

By Carroll

October 18, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

Ahh precious braves fan…back to your usual tricks of spewing leis and half truths. If anyone is interested in the truth, here is actual, factual information surrounding the near trade of AJ to the Sox for Ordonez in 7/04:

The Sox reportedly are talking about acquiring Jones to fill their need for a center fielder and sending Ordonez to the Braves, who are desperate for a power-hitting outfielder. Even if that means renting him for half a season, as they would with Ordonez, who is eligible for free agency after the World Series.

Sounds crazy, but sources say it is one of several trade scenarios being discussed.

Even the usually tight-lipped Schuerholz isn’t shooting down the rumor.

”All measures of conversations have been going on,” Schuerholz told reporters. ”But they’re real. They’re not just newspaper talk.”

The Braves would get what they can from Ordonez (due about $7 million) and let him walk via free agency after the season, relieved they have dumped the remaining $45 million or so they owe Jones through 2007 as they begin a major reduction in payroll.

It’s a deal, sources say, Schuerholz is more eager to make than the Ortiz trade.

http://houstonsportstalk.webzila.com/index.php?showtopic=110&mode=linear

ANd braves fan, where’s your source, sweetie?

High five, self!

By Carroll

October 18, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this

And even your beloved David O’brien seems to agree with me:

The Braves may be willing to trade Andruw Jones. The Journal-Constitution’s David O’Brien reports that the Braves have talked to the White Sox about a deal involving Jones and Magglio Ordonez.

If DOB knows so much Ronnie, are you and Bravesfan suggesting that he was lying about this?

By Carroll

October 18, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

And Ronnie, don’t go an blow any shred of credibility you may still have with some people on here by suggesting that the Braves should base their decisions on what the loser a* Cubs or others might try to do! After all, many teams were “salivating” over Beltran last offseason…how has that move worked out for the Mets? I don’t remember too well.

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 04:53 PM | Link to this

Carroll your quote comes from ESPN.com and mine comes from a Chicago newspaper,so what the bottom line that you are so fond of using is that while Ordonez is in Detroit,Jones is still in ATL and will be for several more seasons.I,m not opposed to any player being discussed in trade talks if the Braves can get equal value.If this was one year earlier,I wouldn,t be opposed to discussing Furcal when you can still receive something in return.That’s why I think it’s okay to at least discuss Giles before he makes it to his walk year and leaves for a draft pick.

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this

Carroll no one is saying the trade was not discussed,it just wasn’t made.We’ve had a good blog this afternoon,try and be a part of it instead of ruining it.

By Carroll

October 18, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this

bravesfan: my point is that Ronnie keeps implying that I don’t know anything because I advocated trading AJ. When I pointred out that JS almost moved AJ last offseason for Kevin Brown, he replied that the difference was that I advocated trading him mid-season. So, I reminded him that JS almost dealt him mid-season in 2004 for Ordonez.

Bottom line, Ronnie must think that JS is an idiot because he considered moving the great Aj, as I also suggested.

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 05:15 PM | Link to this

Carroll,I read the same things you did about Jones and the Sox,it didn’t happen.I read that the Yanks wanted to move Brown and because he is an ATL native that drove the NY media to speculate that he would go to the Braves in a salary swap.That was just pie in the sky “talk” and wishful thinking from the NY POST.You don’t really think JS thought about moving him for Brown,and also it must be pointed out that Brown had a full no trade clause.It’s a matter of record that the Braves don’t give or accept any players with no trade provisions.CJ has his from the union 10/5 rule.On a side note I told my husband that I would remain on this blog for at least one more week and try to get you as a productive contributer in this forum.Your opinions are welcome,you just don’t have to SHOUT them or degrade anyone who disagrees.There also are better ways to make your displeasure with certain players known without using your language and descriptions.My husband says I,m wasting time,I hope not.

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 05:28 PM | Link to this

Carroll,another point like your Beltran reference.I’m not a Met fan nor a fan of Beltran’s,but it must be pointed out that he is signed for 7 years,you can’t judge the acquistion fairly or completely after 1 season.

By Eric

October 18, 2005 06:00 PM | Link to this

braves fan, listen to your husband. Carroll likes to flood 50% of the blog himself and the rest with his many aliases. He will scream at you, bully you, deride you, and ridicule you, all with crude language. He is determined to sabotage something that actual adults enjoy.

What this guy craves more than anything is for us to respond to him. Ignoring him is the worst thing that could happen to him. As I see it, we either have to do that or else find some other way to pass the time. You have given yourself a week? Good luck, but I’m afraid you would need several lifetimes.

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 06:32 PM | Link to this

Eric,The Sporting News has named their Manager of the Year and Player of the Year, an award voted by other players and managers.BC won the award for managers and AJ won the award for player of the year finishing 1st followed by 2nd-D.Lee 3rd-Pujols 4th-A Rod 5th-D.Ortiz

By R. Gylesocs

October 18, 2005 07:03 PM | Link to this

Pretty impressive win for Bobby and Andruw. Must be an April-September thing. LaRussa and Pujols are still playing and probably win the award for October.

By Tomahawkin

October 18, 2005 07:27 PM | Link to this

I’m on the downing Blow-Tran bandwagon after one year of his contract, just like Adrian Beltre and J.D. Screw, All 3 have career years in 04 and were overpaid this year, and I think Drew spent half of the year on the DL, Go Figure, and with beltran he was just an ESPN offseason promotion….

Go Braves!

By Tomahawkin

October 18, 2005 08:00 PM | Link to this

I miss the old cocky Chipper Jones before he got his contract, now its rare that he shows any emotion, I as well am for the Idea of bringing Justice in as a hitting coach, or a coach in general, along with Brian Jordan

By Ron Roberts

October 18, 2005 08:22 PM | Link to this

Carroll…

You should either get a hobby, or a job. You’re ALL over this thing today, aren’t ya?

You keep bringing up this story from JULY 2004 about discussions of a trade of Andruw Jones. I KEEP bringing up the fact that it was YOU who was ready to give up on the guy about, oh, THREE WEEKS INTO THE SEASON!!!! in 2005.

Either way, there weren’t many people THEN or NOW who agreed with you.

You wrankle my fur, in GENERAL, because you log on here, mid-game often, spouting your hatred (sometimes it’s even RACIST, if you’ll recall), and use these (not) cute nicknames to denegrate the players or management. You’re not a fan. You’re that arrogant loudmouth in the stands that parents, hoping to shield their kids from your language, hail an usher to remove from the stadium.

But that’s just my “in general” feel for ya.

Months and months and months now, nobody can disagree with you without YOU trying to make yourself superior in some way. I’m starting to think that maybe the reason you HAVE all this time to LORD over the blog all day, countering those you disagree with, is because there’s nobody to drag you away from it who’d like to spend time with you.

By R . Gylesocs

October 18, 2005 08:55 PM | Link to this

Golly, gee, I sure LOVE the Braves! You love ‘em too, doncha? Let’s HATE Carroll for thinkng different. BAD Carroll.

Sign Furcal for sure. Spend some time with Giles to flatten his swing. Maybe he’ll hit 60 doubles next year.

By Carroll

October 18, 2005 09:13 PM | Link to this

Wow Ronnie…you know an awful lot about me considering you have no idea who I am. Yer smart.

Look, all anyone has to do is scroll to the very top of the comments on this blog, and you can trace where all this nonsense started. I don’t come on here looking to make friends or enemies. But when you start spouting lies with your multiple user names, and in general spreading inaccurate info, I’m going to call you on it. If you don’t like it, just don’t respond to me..ignore my posts. Problem is, once you get past mine and all the ones you do under various names, there won’t be a whole ot to read.

By AD

October 18, 2005 10:42 PM | Link to this

PLEASE KEEP THOMSON!!! Just a thought here, but seeing as what the Braves need is a middle reliever, how about moving Sosa back to the pen (OK…don’t everyone scream at me). He has proven that he can pitch some great innings, however, we would have a decent starting rotation with Smoltz, Hudson, Ramirez, Thomson and Davies. What we desperately need is some relief. We don’t even have to go and spend tons of money on it…just realign.

By BB FAN

October 18, 2005 11:15 PM | Link to this

If Leo Mazzone leaves to go to the Yankees, that will prove that the Yankees can BUY anyone and anything. That would be exactly what is wrong with baseball. Selig needs to get off his a$$ and put a stop to all these trades and signings the Yankees make. The A-Rod trade was probably the worst one of all. The Yankees do not even have to pay all of his salary. What the hell was Selig thinking when he signed off on that trade. And there have been many more like it, just not so high profile. It’s funny, I don’t hate the Yankees, but I hate Steinbrenner. He thinks he can buy anyone and anything. I’m just glad it has not worked the last 5 years. No WS ring since 2000. Everybody rags on our Braves for less than perfect success in the post season, but look at the Yankees. Now talk about a team choking! The Yankees have had an unlimited payroll since 1998 and have not won a thing since 2000. With the payroll they have every year, they should win the WS ring every year. 208 million dollars bought the Yankees the same thing the Braves got for 80 million.

By braves fan

October 18, 2005 11:43 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin,agreed all 3 players you mention had sub-par years but none were acquired in trades where teams give up valuable parts of their system in return.The only cost is money,and I believe that the Mets,Mariners,and Dodgers can all afford the price.That’s what worries me about Furcal’s possible departure.He leaves and the Braves then have to try to acquire other valuable pieces in trades.The only cost associated with retaining Furcal is money and not personel.Time-Warner can afford the capital outlay.

By danny cardwell

October 19, 2005 12:13 AM | Link to this

guys, were fine. let the yankees, sox, mets and the rest spend their money. look at houston and the whitesox. all we need is starters that can go 7-8 innings with 3 middle relief pitchers. we need to keep what we have as position players and add 3 middle relief guys and a closer. if money is an issue, keep furcal over giles. personally i would let both go for pitching as they let their ego over rule commonsense.(hits over homeruns). i will also say that i believe shureholtz is over rated. he did good for a lot of years with a blank check. im still waiting for him to produce working under what i think is a very liberal budget. i would not be sur prised if his son is brought up next year instead of playing in the minors until he is ready.

By Will Frampton

October 19, 2005 01:55 AM | Link to this

The Braves have strung together 14 consecutive division titles while losing and replacing key players. They have never had to replace key management. When it comes to management, you don’t get any more key than Bobby Cox, John Scheurholz and Leo Mazzone. The team has been held together the last 15 years by Cox. The talent has been managed by Schuerholz. The pitching has been crafted by Mazzone. Three parts, working as well-oiled machine. Take one side of that perfect triangle away, and you’re probably looking at our first non-playoff season since 1990. And oh yeah, that was the last year all three men weren’t with the team at the same time.

By Chop Chop

October 19, 2005 03:09 AM | Link to this

I don’t want Mazzone to leave, but I think the team can manage to trudge on without Rockin’ Leo. You have to realize that the organization has been using his pitching philosophies for a long time now, so I don’t think there’s too much to fear from him leaving. Everyone throughout the Braves’ minor-league system knows what is expected at the big league level and coaches accordingly. Also, for all his genius, even Mazzone couldn’t fix the bullpen this year. He’s not God, folks. The team can survive without him if he decides to go.

As for fixing the bullpen, I think we’re looking at Boyer/McBride/Devine and other pieces next year. I think signing Tom Gordon to close would be a great idea. You can groom Boyer or Devine to be the future closer as a set-up guy or go out and spend a little to bring in another veteran. I think Lerew has a good chance to be on the roster next year and he definitely has the stuff to be a solid reliever.

The starting pitching should be fine as long as Smoltz didn’t do any more damage to himself this year. I will say this much, though. Bobby Cox cannot allow Smoltz to throw as many pitches and innings next year as he did this season. You can’t run a guy into the ground like that when he hasn’t been a starter for four years, no matter how bad your bullpen is. I think Hudson will pitch better next year. As for Sosa, who knows what we’ll get, but he didn’t give me any reason to think he won’t be solid next year. Ramirez and Davies are fine at the back end of the rotation, and you might see Chuck James get in the mix as well.

Now, as for the position players, I think the Braves will re-sign Furcal unless he gets an offer over $9 million. I can’t imagine them cutting bait with him after the year he had, especially with the nagging injuries he fought through, but they will if the price is really high. Giles will be back at second…at double the salary, but that’s still better than a guy like Alfonso Soriano, who will probably make a few million more on the market than Giles will get in arbitration. Soriano will be 30 before the start of next season and struck out over 120 times this year, walked only 33 times, had an on-base percentage of .309 (only 19 points higher than Giles’ 2005 batting average!), and generally has hands of stone. He can obviously hit for power and drive in runs, but even ol’ “Gilly” could’ve come close to driving in 100 runs with Texas. I think LaRoche will stay at first base and once again be in a platoon with someone other than Julio Franco, probably Marte. Some of you may wonder why LaRoche won’t be traded after his lack of hustle/alleged stomach flu against the Astros in Game 4. Well, he’ll only be 26 next year. Twenty homers and nearly 80 runs batted in is pretty good for a guy who hasn’t reached his prime and plays a very good first base, ADD notwithstanding. In fact, I personally feel the guy should just be left in there everyday. As for the hot corner, “The Scarlet Letter” will return to be jeered by his loving fans and will be one reason Furcal gets his money from the Braves. Listen, folks. Chipper hasn’t produced in the postseason for a long time, but he’s had a great career and has continued to produce while injured. You don’t just give up on a guy who has a career .400 OBP…unless you’re stupid. He produces throughout the entire season, and if you want to get to the postseason, you need guys who do that…no matter where he likes to dip his wick. Betemit and Orr will most likely both return as backups on the infield, unless Betemit is traded with a re-signed (but un-needed) John Thomson for some middle relief help. At catcher, it’s all about Brian McCann with Pena (or a cheap veteran catcher) to back him up. McCann deserves to be the guy. Estrada could also be moved for relief help, as there are a number of teams that will need full-time catchers.

Let’s head to the outfield now. Francoeur, Andruw and Langerhans…with Kelly Johnson off the bench. I think that’s pretty much set in stone, although I’d like a quality veteran bat that actually has something left in the tank. It would be nice to have that threat in a player with more speed than Julio Franco.

Wrapping up, I just want to add that I am as sick as anybody of the Braves’ constantly crappy postseason performances. When I realize that the Braves have been knocked out of the first round as many times as they’ve appeared in the World Series since ‘91, it makes me cringe. One thing I can say is that I’m lucky to be a fan of a team that has been in 125 postseason games in the last fourteen years, no matter how excruciating many of those games have been.

By Ron Roberts

October 19, 2005 08:22 AM | Link to this

Carroll,

GET THIS THROUGH THAT CINDER BLOCK SKULL OF YOURS…

I use my REAL first AND LAST NAME, you DOLT! Try the EMAIL LINK, you IDIOT! It’s LEGITIMATE!

Why would I need to use other personas to get my point across? I don’t even need THIS name to point out your fanatical lunacy. YOU MAKE THE CASE FINE ON YOUR OWN.

But again, Mr. “I’ll call you on it,” ASK THE AJC staff to trace the ISP address! They’ll tell ya pure and simple, I use one login, not just “Ron,” not “Ron G.,” not funny little creative names… I sign on with my FIRST and LAST name and my REAL email address.

Why can’t people just blog here (and GOD FORBID, disagree with you sometiems) without incurring your wrath? Dude, you’ve run off so many intelligent, insightful, and yes, passionate Braves fans who’d like to just TALK BRAVES without being labeled or maligned by you. You won’t run me off, and yeah, I’ll DEFINITELY call you out EVERY SINGLE TIME you decide to go off on one of your near-sighted, thoughtless rants, with your quirky nicknames for players and coaches. I’ll DEFINITELY cal you out EVERY SINGLE TIME you make a bonehead suggestion to cast off a KEY PLAYER when he’s in a slump, too. ‘Cause it’s apparent you don’t know SQUAT about the average 162-game season for a player. They go through slumps - ALL of ‘em. And ya have to be RATIONAL to run a team, and REALIZE that they’ll all go through slumps.

RATIONAL, Carroll. Look it up. Learn it. Live it. BECOME it.

By Gritz Blitz

October 19, 2005 08:53 AM | Link to this

Furcal is not a lead off guy. He tries to hit HRs versus getting on base. He, Giles, & Chipper continue to fold in the postseason.

Time to build a team for the postseason for once.

By Charles

October 19, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this

Carroll, I dare you to deny that you have logged in as multiple users (even more than Cafaro/Carroll/Garfield). I dare you. Please deny that and lets see if my buddy at the AJC can have some fun with this. WE ARE WAITING. Deny it, please.

By Brad

October 19, 2005 09:10 AM | Link to this

I’ll be surprised if Leo leaves the Braves for the Yankmees. There maybe some “mystique” to being in that organization, but what idiot would leave a successful situation to work for that mad man Steinbrenner? Say it aint so Leo, stay where you are.

By Carroll

October 19, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this

Denied.

By Carroll

October 19, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this

Gosh yer smart, Ronnie. I guess since you say that you don’t use other names, it must be true. But just to be sure, I’ll call up the AJC right now and see if they’ll verify it…yeah right whatever. That’s like saying, if you don’t believe president clinton smoked pot but didn’t hale, just call and ask him. Give us a break, okay….most people on here are too smart for this nonsense.

And since NO ONE ever fully agrees with me, I don’t see what would make you think that I use different names. It’s not like you other guys who post something and then 10 minutes later somebody else, who’s never appeared on these blogs before, chimes in with “good job” or “I agree with him”.

And I don’t have a problem with people disagreeing with me. I do have a problem with guys like you who attack me personally, distort what I said, and claim that everything I say is invalid because of something I said months ago that you just happen to disagree with (even though the revered General Manager of the team seems to have also shared my thoughts).

Bottom line: get over yourself.

By R. Gylesocs

October 19, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

Gritz, you are right. Time to build for postseason. “Tough out” needs to be first to go.

By Dave

October 19, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this

RE the Yankees pursuit of Leo Mazzone:

If the money is right, Leo is GONE! Sorry, Leo is not getting any younger, and if the Yankees offer him $500K (a 150% increase over his current salary), he would be a fool not to take it.

We also have to get used to the idea that both JS and BC will be retiring sometime in the next five years as well, hopefully after a few World Series appearances.

By Hudson

October 19, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this

My ideal 2006 team: SP’s: Hudson, Sosa, Ramirez, Davies, Smoltz (as 5th starter, giving him periodic rest) RP’s: Boyer, McBride, John Thomson, Devine, B. Wagner 1B: Laroche/work Chipper in against LHP 2B: Betemit SS: Furcal 3B: Chipper/Marte in when Chipper’s at 1B LF: Langerhans CF: A. Jones RF: Francouer C: McCann Bench: Orr, Pena, K. Johnson, 2 TBA guys. Trade: Estrada, Giles for any young talent we can get

By Ron Roberts

October 19, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this

Carroll, nice try with

“Give us a break, okay….most people on here are too smart for this nonsense.”

Dude, nobody else is questioning me. You’re the only one. Actually, you read the MASSES call YOU to question. You just can’t FATHOM that, though, and ASSume that it MUST be one person with multiple login’s. Well, you’re wrong. So get over your ego, if that’s possible.

And I never once presumed you used multiple logins. No, your posts are easy to peg. Trust me.

By the way, REMEMBERING something nutty you’d said months ago, and bringing it up, isn’t distorting it. And how many times does somebody have to remind you that the White Sox approached the Braves about a trade for Andruw and the Braves said “no, thanks?”

Either way, I don’t care if you post here, and I don’t mind that you’re passionate. You’re just a dooms-day “fan,” if you’re really a fan. Calling for players to be dropped when they’re in slumps isn’t exactly being “supportive,” and CLAMORING for managers to be fired isn’t exactly “backing” the team, ya know, like FANS do.

Again, look up RATIONAL.

By Larry

October 19, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

If Leo leaves , who are we gonna get for a pitching coach. Personally, i hope we get someone who is already in the system.

By glennbo

October 19, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

It would be great to see the Braves give Chipped Off Jones the boot. But who would want that 16 million dollar salary for a part time player. He mails it in as far as offseason conditioning goes, gets on his horse on his ranch ( which, incidentally, is probably the reason he has had hamstring and foot injuries — too much horses and boots) and counts his money. The Braves are stuck with the showboat and most likely 25 million dollars on the DL - Smoltz will probably not last the season and Hampton is done. I can’t wait to see what the Braves do without Mazzone. Oh, well. Cox will find some smoke and mirrors in the attic, squeek into the playoffs and bow out early again. Attendance will drop and the Braves will eventually end up where they were 20 years ago — as the butt of a lot of jokes.

By Charles

October 19, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this

Carroll has been confirmed to have logged in as Cafaro, Carroll and Garfield. Sorry Carroll. We told you not to deny. Now you look really dumb.

By Michael

October 19, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

I’ve been a Braves fan since ‘69 and this wasn’t a great team,but fair. It’s seems to me that we keep missing the bullseye. One season we have great pitching,but no hitting or vice-versa. If we could combine them I think we will have a shot at the whole thing. Let’s face it fans, we can be arm chair GM all day long,but nothing will be done until the “Big Wigs” of Time-Warner gives John the “O.K.” to really shop. Either that or T-W needs to sell the team…maybe back to “The Ted”. I mean how much was the ‘95 team worth?

By Ga_Tech_92

October 19, 2005 12:45 PM | Link to this

Michael I’m in complete agreement with you. To me the bottom line in baseball is this:

Q: Who historically outspends every team…ie…who has the resources to buy the best players year after year? A: the Yankees

Q: Does spending the most guarantee you a world series championship? A: In an individual year, no…over the course of time…yes…who has won roughtly a quarter of every world series there has ever been?…Yankees.

Q: Can you have an inferior (cheaper) cast of players and occationally get deep into the post season? A: Of course…but the bigger issue is this…baseball is broken…as long as one team can outspend all the others…there isn’t a level playing field. Either outspend the yankees (thus putting the best team on the field on average year after year) or quit expecting to win.

Q: Do the Braves need bullpen help?…Furcal?…maybe another young hot shot starting pitcher?…maybe more offense, while not sacrificing defense? A: of course…because the yankees will sign every star we let go…and add them to their cast of all stars…do you think this helps win?…obviously.

Baseball is broken anyway…who cares…if you can’t enjoy it just for ‘a day at the park, with no expectations’, then you shouldn’t go. I don’t, because I do have expectations of greatness in things I am involved with. Baseball cannot have a level playing field until all the teams spend the same amount.

OH…and while I’m on the soapbox…college football is broken too…how is it that every sport known to man has a playoff system, but somehow major college football cannot seem to do it?…………MONEY!…anything that every fan, player, coach wants…but is denied by OTHERs based on MONEY…is corrupt and tainted. What a shame to have a corrupted system for such a potentially amazing sport. MONEY is the great corruptor. Ask anyone you know, they will almost all say they want a playoff system….you can do it…every other sport (even smaller college football)…so the only real answer is “we are too greedy to have a playoff system”. That is an insult to every fan and player who follows it…RISE UP!…BE HEARD!…IT”S BS!!!

By Carroll

October 19, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

LOL Charles! And who the hell are you and your friend? Where is your proof? You’re precious!

By Carroll

October 19, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

Ths just in! It has just been confirmed that “Charles” is actually Rosie O’Donnell.

Sorry, M’am….sir…whatever.

By LeTwan Anthony

October 19, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

Hey Carroll, found you man. Looks like they still after you. That dude who TYPES IN CAPS don’t like you at all. You gonna cause him to have a stroke. My roomie is a doc and she says he needs to eat some roughage and get regular. If you want to get back to baseball tell me what you think will happen if they lose Leo, Terry, and Freddie. If Terry and Freddy are candidates to be manager somewhere maybe they should stick around in case Bobby picks the big one. Bobby is signed through 2006. Go Astros! LeTwan

By Carroll

October 19, 2005 12:54 PM | Link to this

Ronnie: refusing to see facts again. I guess it was just so much easier to accept bravesfan’s lies than to read the articles that I actually pasted with citatons, including your beloved O’Brien, clearly stating that JS was the one pursuing the trades and wanted desperately to unload AJ on the SOx. Whatever man…you’re a waste of time.

By Carroll

October 19, 2005 01:02 PM | Link to this

LeTwan: yep, “they’re” at it again. Who cares.

As far as the Braves, I don’t think we lose much if Garcia leaves but Leo may be a diff story. However, there are other great pitching minds out there…after all there’s at least 7 other teams who finish as good or better than the Braves every year…..somebody else must know something.

I don’t want it to happen but we all know it will at some point, so it might as well happen now while at least we still have Smoltz and Hudsy…two good, veteran pitchers who can bridge the gap between Leo and the new guy for all the rooks.

The biggest question is who might replace Leo if he leaves? What about Randy St. Clare of the gNats? He has Braves ties and learned under the tutiledge of Leo. Thoughts/other ideas?

By Duke

October 19, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this

After reading all the comments I think I have it all figured out.

-Increase Payroll to 83 million -Get rid of Chippers salary -Sign Andy Marte (3rd) -Sign Furcal -Get rid of Adam Laroche and Julio Franco -Promote Scott Thorman from Richmond for (1st) Put the money saved into well needed pitching, bullpen or starter

By LeTwan Anthony

October 19, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

How about Don Sutton? He seems to know more than most. HOF. Already in the organization. Next step, manager? LeTwan

By Phil

October 19, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this

The time is now for the braves managment to pony up and pay back it’s fan’s. Keep leo look at what the pitcher who were here are doing now that they dont have Leo. If the braves want Furcal then pay him what he is worth. The Braves need to dump this rotating 1st base men. Adam “Slow as snot on a cold day” laroache has got to go. Julio bye bye. Go get a power hittter like Thome. Go after a top line Closer Wagner, Jones. Go get front line pitching. Hampton is done. Quit nickel and 1 million salery players for this team. The braves owe the fans a world series title and with the mix of vetrens and young players now is the time to fill in the holes with some stars.

By mtbiker033

October 19, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

I agree they should evaluate the situation carefully and slightly raise the payroll as you suggested and KEEP FURCAL & GILES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE!!!

We were just a good closing pitcher / few bullpen additions away from the NLCS. Had we had these 2 things I believe we could have won the World Series. It’s a shame that Andurw’s best career high season ended as it did. Maybe Smoltz can start and close next year???? lol

By Drumster53

October 19, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this

As a dedicated Braves fan from their Milwaukee days (dating myself, huh?), I just want to say that I’m very proud of the Braves’ 14-year division titles. I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve grown tired of the first-round losses every NLDS. But I come back for more each year hoping for the best. I agree with those of you who state that pitching is the key to continued success. I really cringe at the thought of Leo leaving but think we can survive it if he does. I love Smoltzie but he’s on the career downside - I wish he had stayed in the closer role as he was essentially unbeatable. But I understand once a starter, always a starter. Hampton’s destruction was easy to predict. I don’t have much confidence in Thompson but it’s still too early for me to pass judgement on him - just don’t know him that well after just one disrupted season. I truly hope if Sosa remains on the team, he can come back in ‘06 stronger than this year - he was a real pleasant surprise. The Braves have always been proof that pitching is the key to baseball success - the days of Smoltz-Glavine-Maddux-enter a name here are sadly gone but I remember them well. Though the years since ‘95 have been lean in the post-season, it’s been consistent pitching that has brought Atlanta their division titles. Position players have come and gone; many of them great players, too. The Braves have had their share of marquee players during the failed playoff years and this did nothing to alter the outcomes - it has been the pitching that has broken down year after year. The starters get tired, the bullpen breaks down, the closer (except for Smoltzie most of the time) runs out of gas. Let’s face it…the Braves just ran out of steam in ‘05, plain and simple, just like they have since ‘95. Every player was tired, hurt in some way and burnt out from a long season. I knew the Braves would not survive the first round this year simply because of how they looked the last week of the regular season. The only difference between them and the Astros is that the Astros are hungrier for a title and fought better for the chance. Success during the regular season comes at a high cost for the Braves - Bobby has high expectations of all his players during the season and they GIVE it to him. Hence, they have nothing left when the regular season is over.
So, in conclusion, I sorely hope Leo stays with that successful triumvirate management in Atlanta and that they seek pitching again as a priority to maintain/return to their winning ways. I hope Raffy is retained and wouldn’t argue if Giles stays on. Estrada should be moved for McCann (I love this kid) and I think Chipper should be moved to 1st base. I wish Jordan would just retire - his glory days are long gone. Franco is a curiosity I think Bobby finds fascinating but I wish they’d have him move on. I’ll really miss Pendleton if he accepts a managerial post but he deserves the shot; he was a helluva batting coach for the Braves, though - case in point, Andruw. ‘Nuff said…

By Ron Roberts

October 19, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this

I accept “braves fan’s” posts more easily than your insideous rants and rages, yes, Carroll. Everyone elses, too, actually; Even LeTwan’s broken diction.

LEO: I don’t think he goes… it’s just a gut feeling. He’s been w/the organization since 1978, it’s all he knows, he knows every pitcher up and down the farm system, he and Bobby are 1. and 1A. in the dugout, and I think, if he wants the job, he’d get a crack at managing the team once Bobby’s had enough. That’s just my gut feeling. If he DOES go, though, I think we should promote from within. Leo and Bobby have established a system in this organization, and nobody would know this system better than somebody already IN the system. I don’t think bringing a new pitching ‘czar’ in, with their own differing philosophies, would be good for the organization.

REMAINDER OF TEAM: Folks, we can spout out rational (and Carroll’s irrational) ideas all we want, but it makes NO SENSE to tinker with the parts of the team that DID work to try and patch the holes in the bullpen. It just doesn;t.

I mean, look at how we compare against the playoff teams this season:

STARTING PITCHING: Even w/out Hampton, our guys were as good as anybody elses, and were pretty much toe-to-toe with the vaunted Houston rotation, in the series.

FIELDING: I think we had the fewest errors in all of baseball, didn’t we? I’m not looking that up to be sure, but I know I’d heard it mentioned on broadcasts.

HITTING: Our lineup did it’s job against Houston (and the aforementioned ‘vaunted’ Astros rotation). We scored FIVE in Game i, SEVEN in Game 2, we got THREE in game 3 (not great, but it was Roy Oswalt, and look what the Cardinals got off him), and SIX in game Four. That’s 5.25 runs per game against HOUSTON!

We need to shape up our bullpen, and we’ll HAVE the cash to do it witout losing any of our starting eight. Guys, we have to stop RE-ACTING to the irrational people/person who just wants to boot Furcal, Chipper, etc., because they have these IRRATIONAL emotional outbursts, where they feel like some players don’t care enough, don’t show any passion, blah blah blah.

Ya know what? Ozzie Guillen doesn’t show passion, either. And his team’s hosting Game One of the World Series this year.

By Ron Roberts

October 19, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this

Actually, let me go ahead and apologize to LeTwan in advance. I shouldn’t have brought you into this. You don’t seem like a bad guy; you’ve just decided to buy into Carroll’s garbage, but that doesn’t make you a bad person.

I actually LIKE your Don Sutton idea. He’s annoying to listen to, at times, on TBS, but he’d be a GOOD pitching coach. I’ve wondered, for awhile now, why he hasn’t given that a shot.

By baseballsucks

October 19, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

Nobody is worth that much money to play a kids game. Are they protecting our Country? Are they policing and keeping our streets safe? Are they saving lives? No. They’re a bunch of greedy pansies who take huge checks for playing a game. That’s all it is. All it was and all it will be. Save your justifications for their paychecks because it can’t be. Well to anyone with a brain that is. I wonder if you put as much effort into your jobs or your marriages as you do with keeping up with stats for a bunch of primadona nobodies? This Country is about as backwards as one could be. Go pleasure yourselves to some highlight reels you losers.

By Alan White

October 19, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

I just have to say this:

With all the money we’ve dumped on bums because they had the slight possibility of panning out over the years (Mondesi, Albie Lopez, Surhoff, Kolb, Lofton-he stunk it up here-, Hollandsworth, etc.), you’d think we’d pony up a lousy couple hundred thousand more to keep the damn yankees or anyone else from getting a PROVEN legend like Leo Mazzone. I just don’t get it. Do WHATEVER IT TAKES to keep this man!!!!!

By LeTwan Anthony

October 19, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

I probably shouldn’t have suggested you are constipated. We’re even. Try to be nice to Carroll.

The question is can Sutton wear a cap? That dude has some funny hair. I think we get a meaner staff if he is coach. I like Oswalt pitching high and tight. Nobody digs in and free swings when you do that. Sutton would teach pitchers to challenge. Can I say that I hated to see Glavine pitch a ballgame? Still do. That outside corner crap gets old - and when the ump doesn’t give you the call … LeTwan

By Bill

October 19, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

Ron —

Here is a suggestion: ignore Carroll. Quit banging your head against the wall. I did and I have more fun reading the blog now. Focus on the subgroup of people with whom you actually think that you can have an interesting discussion (where you get to define ‘interesting’). (Oh no, I must be talking to the other parts of my split personality. As that noted psychiatrist once said: “just because you are paranoid, it doesn’t mean that they aren’t out to get you.”)

Carroll likes to use the blog to vent. Let him. You don’t have to read his posts.

By Braxton

October 19, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

The news about Mazzone isn’t good, but the minor league system and coaches have been together for a long time also! I would hope the JS have someone that could take Leo’s place that knows pitchers. By the way…this is why I hate the Yankees, they have to buy their coaches, their players, and the other reason is Jim Leyritz

By Don Corleone!

October 19, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

It is time for Leo to move on. He is the best pitiching coach in baseball and he deserves to coach on baseball’s biggest stage! He will make the last Randy Johnson’s last years among his best years!

By BB FAN

October 19, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

It’s Steinbrenner that buys everything and everyone. HE is the problem with baseball today. Selig needs to get off his a$$ and stop these crazy trades and free agent signings. A salary cap would be the only thing that could fix baseball. At least the Yankees have not won the WS since 2000. That is what I call choking. A team with an unlimited payroll can’t get to the WS.

Of course that also proves that the playoffs are just a crap shoot now that a wild card team is allowed in. There are only a few very strong divisions. They need to go back to 2 divisions in each league. And stop that bullsh!t unbalanced schedule. Teams do not need to play every team in their division 18-19 times.

With 2 divisions in each league, MLB could have 1 WC team and give a team a 1st round bye. However, all rounds need to be 7 game series’.

About the Braves: The bullpen is what cost them this year. I think Tom Gordan would be a great signing. Then add a couple power veteren arms for middle relief. Without bullpen help, the Braves will do no better next year.

By scott

October 19, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

There is no excuse for not keeping Leo. I took my parents and 2 children with me on September 24 and excluding the ticket prices, parking and cokes / food cost me $130. In a business where salaries are paid in the millions, what is a couple of hundred thousand?

By Pawan

October 19, 2005 03:37 PM | Link to this

No reason for Leo to stay. He is the absolute best pitching coach and deserves to be in a team that can win, as opposed to just rusting under Cox.

By LeTwan Anthony

October 19, 2005 05:22 PM | Link to this

Leo is the best. Leo rockin’ and Bobby pickin’ has become an Atlanta Braves tradition. It looks pretty stupid, but it works for 162 games. At game 163 nothing works anymore. LeTwan

By possum

October 19, 2005 06:18 PM | Link to this

The only thing constant is change. Leo has been good, and I hate to see him go, but, not all of ATL’s pitchers got along with Leo and many left that have become good pitchers with other teams. I would be surprised if he accepted George’s offer of employment…..to much crap from that city…..we will find an able replacement…..

By braves fan

October 19, 2005 08:13 PM | Link to this

Fox Sports.com Senior Baseball writer Ken Rosenthal is reporting that Leo has accepted a 3 year contract with the Orioles.

By John Schuerholz Executive Vice President & General Manager Atlanta Braves

October 19, 2005 08:33 PM | Link to this

I wanted to announce Leo’s decision myself but I was busy trying to track Carroll down to confer with him and avail myself with the knowledge of a great thinker(in his own mind)Rest easy Brave fans,Carroll will be consulted about future staff moves.One quick tip for you Carroll if you are going to blog on public boards about the Braves staff,it might help if you at least get the names right.Our 3rd base coach’s name is GONZALES not GARCIA.Not knowing the names is acceptable around the office,but in public it kind of destroys our creditability.I’ll shoot you a quick e-mail of key names and talking points.Try to keep the names straight.

By LeTwan Anthony

October 19, 2005 08:44 PM | Link to this

They messing with you again Carroll. Just leave it alone. Focus on baseball. An added bonus of Sutton in the dugout is getting him out of the booth. Sutton might influence Bobby some on small ball. The Dodgers can manufacture a run. Bobby’s teams cannot.

By Tomahawkin

October 19, 2005 09:48 PM | Link to this

I’d like to See Sutton sittin next to Cox mouthing his ear off about his experiences of his hall of fame career, much like he does on the tube, I’m not knockin him for it either, it gets me a chance to experience what it was like for him as a player in an different era of baseball, If not sutton, try Steve Stone, and Brain Jordan or Daviv Justice as third base coach to get some emotion into this team…. Go Braves!

By Carroll

October 19, 2005 10:12 PM | Link to this

LeTwan: I doubt Sutty would have much influence on BC’s offensive philosophy, but I love your idea of him as pitching coach! LOL about the hat thing!

Mr. Schuerholz: how much you payin’? I hear the Yanks are also in need of a consultant and I have to look out for the best interests of my family.

GO STROS!!!

By braves fan

October 19, 2005 10:23 PM | Link to this

I agree with Sutton being a pitching coach,then the added bonus of getting him out of the booth,like LeTwan said.

By Brian

October 20, 2005 12:36 AM | Link to this

Losing Leo WILL bring the end of the Braves long run, whatever it was worth. If Bobby was half as smart as Leo we would have won 5 or 6 Series by now. It’s unfortunate because an extra couple hundred thousand per for him and a couple guaranteed years would probably be worth as much as bringing in a multi-million dollar free agent. 200 G’s is NOTHING to a baseball organization. I can only assume that ownership simply does not care about winning at this point when you’re willing to let the best coach in the game walk to save .2 mil. I’m going to do my best to no longer care either.

By Tim

October 20, 2005 12:40 AM | Link to this

Leo, I hate to see you go…but I can’t blame u—- Please Take Bobby Cox with u—-

By Ricardo Cortez

October 20, 2005 12:42 AM | Link to this

David…as much as I can agree that the Braves need to sign the Furcal that played in th second half (not the one who has been here for the previous few years…low on base % for a leadoff man), I need to point out that your quotes “It’s easy to spend someone else’s money…” and “if you’re Furcal, you can’t assume there will be another big contract at the end of this one…” make you look like an IDIOT!!!

IF Furcal likes it here, he can “survive” on a paltry 5 year $30-35 MILLION dollar contract for the rest of his life! I am really tired of propagating the idea that the “fair market value” is ___ MILLION dollars for playing a game…

If the player WANTS to be here, then he should CHOOSE to be here. Adrian Beltre had an MVP type season in ‘04…his career and walk years crossing paths…then held up the Dodgers, got “his” money from Seattle, and proceeded to go back to swinging at the moon…and his previous “average season”…check his stats.

Furcal had a great HALF of a season…will he revert to his previous form? If so, then the money would have been better spent on bulking up the pitching staff, especially the ENTIRE bullpen, not just the closer.

I enjoyed seeing the Baby Braves. I would like to see more of them…even if the “streak” ends…

Getting to the playoffs is a hard thing to do, but signing a single player…a shortstop, does not guarantee winning the Series. Just ask the Yankees…

By BB FAN

October 20, 2005 08:23 AM | Link to this

Ricardo Cortez, I agree with your assessment of players in their walk years. They have career years, sign for megamillions, then go back to average stats. It happens a lot. I fear Furcal would be one of those guys. Look at his defense. He all of sudden became a gold glove caliber SS in his walk year.

Furcal could be one of the greatest leadoff men of all time; if he just concentrated on getting on base and stealing bases. I just don’t know if it will ever sink in for him though. He is too much in love with the homerun. He’s valuable, but I would not mortgage the future for him. Or the pitching. That is what needs to be fixed.

By brandon

October 20, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

I think the funny thing is that people think that Raffy is incappable of carrying the braves offense….well he isnt. If he is getting on and the people behind him dont do thier jobs then the point is moot. I heard a rumor, cant remember where that the braves had some interest in an all star caliber out fielder???? Is there any truth to this? I have been an avid braves fan for 25 years and its time to put up or shut up dont u think, cause all they are doing is delaying the enevitable of having a fire sale and rebuilding? but i know as well if u keep continuing to make it to the playoffs sooner or later you are gonna do something….BC seems to me like he is an 162 game manager not a post season manager…i think the core of the infield should stay, cause giles is well respected and a decent table setter[as well as raffy] for the jonses’ and francouer….what other 1-2 punch is better in baseball…and further more for the defense and dependability i dont think WB can carry the bravos……just a thought

By still love the braves

October 20, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this

Is it just me or is Leo leaving going to stop or run of dominance, in the regular season. We have never been a great hitting team, the playoffs in the past have proven that, but we’ve done enough to get by. Pitching was what made us great, Leo making nobodys quality pitchers is what made us great, and now he’s leaving for the Orioles. Why was Leo only making $250K a year. He’s the best pitching coach in the league and possibly my generation, why want they pay what the best is worth. Ted please come buy the Braves back. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By david

October 20, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this

Just got through reading some of the blogs of the Baltimore Sun.com The beat writers seem convinced that hiring Mazzone is a great move,but suprisingly if you read some of the bloggers,roughly 25% of them want to keep Ray Miller.I guess every team’s blogs have their own Carroll.One interesting note Perlozzo was the best man in Leo’s wedding and one anonymous quote attributes Leo’s move to the fact that neither JS or BC can look him in the eye and tell him unequivocally that they will return after the 2006 season.That fact may have as much bearing on Leo’s thought process as anything.JS & BC are both at the age that they probably can not mislead Leo about their future if ther is even a 5% chance that they will not return.While I too am saddened that Leo is leaving,I can see where all the circumstances are in line for him to depart.JMO but JS&BC are both probably honorable enough to not just say stay and everything will work out,when neither man could possibly be with the Braves after 2006 and this move gurantees Leo employment at a place he is comfortable and with a manager he is comfortable with from 2006-2008.

By LeTwan Anthony

October 20, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

Another good candidate for pitching coach would be Charlie Leibrandt. Camp Leo can become Camp Leibrandt. Or, we can go with Leo Mullin and keep the name. Your choice. LeTwan

By david

October 20, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

One more thought about Leo,I didn’t ever think he would be a good fit in NY with Torre,if you are old enough to remember when Torre and Gibson took over in 82 they basically ridiculed Johnny Sain,who happens to be Leo’s mentor.The Orioles and Braves are both probably a more suitable fit than the Yanks ever were.

By LeTwan Anthony

October 20, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

LeTwan still thinks Don Sutton is the man for the job. Chances are he’s making too much money in the booth to go to the field but the lure of the dugout might be enough to persuade him. He could likely do wonders with the pitchers and who could inspire more respect than a HOF palyer? If he could teach Horacio to stay away from the middle of the plate when he’s behind in the count he’d be leagues ahead of Leo.

By RANDALL

October 20, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this

i like what Josh said about the payroll differences between the Yanks and our Braves. But, I’m almost convinced that Bobby could take my little league team to the MLB Div Series. I love Smoltzie and AJ and Chip and Rafie and all these guys and I think we should do what we can to keep them. It’s apparent that the bullpen REALLY needs some work. But, keep in mind that we made it to the playoffs (again) with this lineup. I think just one or two strong long relief guys would be the key ingredient. And I agree with spending the money on these one or two guys that’s now being spent on keeping the utility players such as BJ, etc around would prove to be cost efficient and the nudge that the Braves so desperately need to make it to the dance.

By Shane

October 20, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

I think LaRoche, Estrada, Johnson, and Langerhans will all be traded. Chipper will go to 1st, Marte will be at 3rd, Furcal will be in Chicago, Betemit will be at short or in left and Soriano filling the other spot. Horacio will be traded and Reitsma, Kolb, Brower, and Foster will be gone. I think Wagner will be the closer and Thompson will be in Texas.

By Braxton

October 20, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

Shane, what are you drinking…LaRoche, Johnson, and Langerhans will all be Braves in 2006. I think you may see Chipper or even Marte move to 1st w/ LaRoche. I think they should move Marte there due to Chipper’s defense from the past season. I think you’ll see Giles or Estrada traded for some middle relief or closer. I think you’ll see Thomson gone and Horacio back in a Braves uniform due to being a lefty. As I keep saying the closer role last season was fine, but the middle relief was terrible.

By Peter

October 20, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

You people miss the point entirely. You let Leo or Raffy go over a few dollars what are you saying to all of the great young players??

What about the pitchers who decided to come to Atlanta because of Leo and helped the Braves carry the streak on??

Nobody has mentioned the new revenue deal which will bring each team additional millions. Think baseball on XM is free? MLB.com is free??

They’ll bleed every dollar out of their reality TV show [Braves] amd wait until every quality front office guy goes and then when the club is back in last place…then they’ll sell.

They’re in New York. They couldn’t care less whether or not the team makes it to the World Series. Wake up, it’s over!

By brandon

October 20, 2005 05:33 PM | Link to this

i think that we should trade francouer while his stock is high and get several good young players for him ..plus he was over hyped anyway,, yeah her is a awsome young talent but after a decent year next year he will want way too much money like all the greedy players do so why not split ways now and get something in return???

By Mike

October 20, 2005 07:58 PM | Link to this

guys i hate to say it, im as big a furcal fan as there is but the braves need to let him go.. i agree completely with the guy who said that the braves offense was just as productive when he was struggling.. yes, his arm and range cannot be replaced but that wont be the difference in the braves getting back to the world series…they need to use that money towards getting someone like wagner…imagine this bullpen next year guys, boyer, devine, mcbride, and wagner or farnsworth thrown in with a quality veteran middle reliever…they also need to find a way to get kelly johnson to play everyday maybe let laroche go and and put him at first…that way you maintain the great young outfield of langerhans, jones, and francouer and you keep johnsons potential great bat in the lineup…johnson could be a quality leadoff man too the way he works counts…and if you put johnson in their like im suggesting than you are not losing that much speed as a team from losing furcal…think of this lineup…johnson, giles, jones, jones, francouer, langerhans, betemit, and mccann…everyone in that lineup can hit and run except mccan who cant run…that would be a productive affordable lineup that would not interfere with the need to get bullpen help…also, smoltz, hudson, ramirez, sosa, and davies, is a fine rotation that 27 or 28 other teams in baseball would take in a heartbeat

By david

October 20, 2005 08:49 PM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson will never steal more than 10 bases in any season of his career.Slow down on the KJ Kool-Aid.KJ has not proven he can hit quality MLB pitchers yet.Not saying he can’t it’s just not proven yet.Let’s not put him in Cooperstown quite yet.KJ is a converted minor league infielder(SS,3B,2B)no 1st base exp.He does show signs of a very good eye,but he has not established that he is a everyday player at this point.He could challenge Langy in LF if his bat comes around,but at this point Langy is the more polished player offensively and is considerably better defensively.

By crs

October 21, 2005 11:37 AM | Link to this

On Furcal, let him go, he is drunk half the time and the other half he strikes out. On Kelly Johnson, I like his plate discipline, I laughed when Chipper said that was a bad thing and he needed to start swinging. Sure enough his strikeouts went way up and his average and OBP way down. Good advice Chipper, that’s what the Braves need another freeswinger. Braves need to start cultivating some speed at some point. I know speed is out of fashion and power is glamourous but look at the last few WS teams almost all ran better the league average. Take Chicago this year. POD is a nightmare when he gets on because he basically a walking double if not triple. Florida a couple years ago with Pierre and the second baseman caused havoc too with their running. I am so tired of BC sitting on his butt and waiting for homeruns. Leo has kept the streak alive. Next year, the Braves win no more than 81.

By david

October 21, 2005 08:37 PM | Link to this

crs, I agree with you about speed and smallball that’s why Furcal should be retained.A depressing thought KJ batting leadoff and Giles batting second.KJ can’t steal bases and our 2 hitter can’t drop down a bunt or show any situational hitting skills.A hitter with a .350 OBP and 40 steals is more worthy than a .390 OBP and less than 10 steals.It does no good to reach first base and then need 2 additional hits in that inning to score.

By ShaNiqua

October 21, 2005 10:57 PM | Link to this

You guys be trippin. Where my baby dady, LeTwan?

By ShaNayNay

October 21, 2005 11:08 PM | Link to this

Girlfriend I knows you din’t! LeTwan be my man!

By braves fan

October 22, 2005 02:37 AM | Link to this

All the bloggers clamoring for Wagner can forget it.He’s on record that ATL intrigues him and he might take a bid that is not necessarily the highest bid for the right situation.Sounds great,right? Here’s the other shoe dropping,he’s made it clear that the most important facet of his new deal will be a full NO-TRADE clause.He’s quoted”that’s the one thing I promised my wife”The Braves have not given any deals with a no-trade since the arrival of JS in 91-I don’t think they will start now.

By Chipper Jones

October 22, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

jjllllllllll

By Curveball

October 22, 2005 05:34 PM | Link to this

With all this clamour concerning old man Mazzone, what has happened with the “Fooky” situation—nothing as usual? Braves better keep “Fook” and get rid of ol’ “Popeye” Giles, he swings for the stars, can’t get a hit when needed, can’t lay down a bunt, and Bobby Dews plays as good a defense as “Gilly.” Besides “Popeye” is dangerous, running up in underneath the other players. Anyone could replace Giles, but “Fooky” is a one of a kind!

By Carroll

October 22, 2005 06:06 PM | Link to this

Curveball: you’re right…I certainly have been a big advocate of not keeping fook simply because I don’t wanna spend all the loot on him and then have a terrible bullpen again. But I do think it would be prudent to keep him instead of Gily if we had that choice. I think the one-two punch of Fooky and Orrsy at the top of the order could be devastating. Who knows how good orrsy could be with regular playing time…and he could work with old mother hubbard all winter to improve his D. After all, Gily was bad defensively until Hubby got hold of him.

Either way, I hope we massivley improve the pen this year…..no more duble-play inducing, soft tossing losers…I want guys with devastating hard stuff to come in and shut ‘em down. I’ve heard that the Rockies might take Reeksma off our hands so that’s a good start. I think Farnsy also walks. I hope we can get Every day Eddie Guardado not as the closer but as a dominant, hard throwing lefty to take the 7th-8th innings.

Thoughts?

By ShaNiqua

October 22, 2005 06:09 PM | Link to this

Chiper: that be the most intelligent thing you ever said.

By Curveball

October 22, 2005 07:10 PM | Link to this

I want to see nothin’ but flamethrowers in the Braves bullpen, well if ol’ Sourhurtz goes out and gets a bullpen this offseason. Even a mediocre team will do well with a good bullpen, take the Astros for instance…please. But anyhow, a good bullpen is the key to postseason success…and Sourhurtz the best way to offset the loss of the “great wizard” Mazzone is to stop signing all the leftovers…for an organization that has prided itself on pitching all these years, this season was a shame!

By braves fan

October 22, 2005 07:24 PM | Link to this

Carroll,suprisingly I generally agree with your thoughts-one point though Guardado is a low 90’s pitcher now and would have to be traded for.On the other hand Ryan fron the Orioles is now a free agent and while he will command a big salary,I think the Braves will be interested.He throws upper 90’s.Wagner is out if he insist on a no-trade clause,which I’m sure he will get from another organization.

By Carroll

October 22, 2005 08:45 PM | Link to this

BJ Ryan is a bit of a hothead….but who knows? Certainly couldn’t be any worse than what we had.

By Michael

October 22, 2005 10:32 PM | Link to this

Carroll, You said that we’ve gone further without speedy leadoff men. 1991 we had Otis Nixon (72 steals), 1992 we had Nixon (41) AND Deion (26 in 97 games), 1995 Marquis Grissom (29), and 1996 Grissom (28). Those are pretty fast guys, and all of those teams went to the World Series.

By Carroll

October 23, 2005 12:04 AM | Link to this

No I said we have done fine in the past without having the prototypical leadoff man….Grissom was NOT that (by his own admission). In 1991 we had Lonnie SMith in the 2nd half and playoffs…he definitely was not the typical leadoff man. Neither was Walt Weiss in 98, Gerald Williams in 99, or Gilys in 2001. All had decent speed, yes, but were not the little speed demon, slap hitting, bunt hitting, base stealing, etc,etc,etc typical leadoff men.

By david

October 23, 2005 12:23 AM | Link to this

Carroll,not being critical but in 91,98,99,and 2001 we lost in the postseason and only in 91 did we have the better team,and that team was ultimately undone by a Lonnie Smith baserunning gaffe.I think the postseason is a big crapshoot but once you get into the postseason,I draw no distinction in a 1st round loss or a WS loss.There is only 1 team that raises the trophy.

By D

October 23, 2005 04:29 AM | Link to this

keep GILES PLEASE BRAVES. I like furcal but he hits to many popups. IF u need a big hit giles is the man!! also love ya chipper and smoltzy. Braves fan forever!!

By MBATL

October 23, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

The Braves would be wise to let Furcal go, and spend on the bullpen.

Smoltz can’t be asked or expected to pitch so many innings next year. He wore down this year, and is a year older. We’ve got to be able to limit him to 7 innings most nights. Sosa is better than expected, but not a deep-inning pitcher; Ramirez and Thompson (if he’s here), pretty much the same. We don’t just need a closer (I wouldn’t mind seeing Farnsworth get a shot), but they really need to focus on getting through the 7th and 8th.

Furcal is not worth a bidding war, and the Braves have shown they won’t play that game anyway. He had a great contract run but has been inconsistent.

Unless you’re Steinbrenner, there will be tradeoffs. All things being equal, I’ll take an improved bullpen, and Betemit at short. Continue the youth movement in the field for another year.

By Carroll

October 23, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this

MBATL: you’re 100% right that we need to use Smoltz sparingly this season ad save him for the stretch run and playoffs. In fact, and I know some will lambaste me for this, I would make him the 5th starter. That way, he’s going up against the opponents 5th starters for the most part, should get decent run support and can come out of games 5th-6h innings to save his arm. Plus, he can be the beneficiary of having the extra off days when the schedule dictates that the 5th starter is not needed.

I know he’s such a competitor that he’d have a hard time accepting this, but I think that if we keep thompson we’ll still have a great starting staff and Smoltzie needs to accept that the best thing he can do for this team is save himself (unless we start going down a hole and need him to help bail us out-but I dn’t expect that would happen with this staff).

By MBATL

October 23, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this

Thks, Carroll. There’s another blog today on “loyalty” on the part of managers. I think this is a case where loyalty is justified. You just can’t make Smoltz the #5, though your point is well taken. He’s too proud and too emotional about his job (which is a good thing). So, you have to be strong enough for Bobby (or new pitching coach John Doe) to go out and pull him. IF we could hold his leads, I think he’d be okay with that.

By Charlie

October 23, 2005 11:02 PM | Link to this

The Braves should have spent the $250,000 on Leo Mazzone.

By MBATL

October 23, 2005 11:03 PM | Link to this

Just a side note: why is everyone rushing to dump Franco? For $1M, where else are you going to find solid defense at 1B, a .275 avg., and 9 HR, 42 RBI, in 285 at bats? And a capable pinch-hitter to boot. That translates out to about 20-25 hr and 100 rbi for a full season. There are guys making $8 m for those numbers. You’re going to pay SOMEONE to back up at 1B and come off the bench, so the savings is modest.

By Carroll

October 24, 2005 07:09 AM | Link to this

MBATL: completely agree. he is our Lenny Harris…our Jose Viscaino, etc. And at that price, you can’t beat it. But I do wish we could stop the platooning at 1st and get a bonafied every day starter and keep him to pinch hitting.

I was awfully dissapointed in his defense in the playoffs…but anybody can have a bad spell…hell some of our “stars” are working on multiple postseason streaks of suckdom. Maybe he just didn’t get enough fiber.

By MBATL

October 24, 2005 10:25 AM | Link to this

Agreed, regarding 1B. I keep hoping Laroche will take the next step and become a solid starter; but it kind of seems that his swing is getting bigger and slower as time goes by. He’s SOOO laid back on the field, I’d like to see some energy out of him.

I don’t see any choice but to stick with him, at least for another year, and hope he picks it up a little. Seems like he has the tools to be a solid player, and is still relatively young (and inexpensive).

By brandon

October 24, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

laroche has shown that he can hit south paw pitching. If bobby would get his head out of his but and play adam all the time and let him do his job they would be better off. Can anyone say ” klesko”.. if bobby would have left rhyno alone he would have turned to an allstar caliber player, and the same goes for roachie…Leave him alone and let him develop..commom sense….

By Michael

October 24, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

Hey Bravo Fans,

I think I’ve just found a new setup or closer for the team he’s pitching in the World Series and he goes by the name of Neal Cotts. From what I can see he’s a left handed John Smoltz…this guy can bring it…the Astros seem to be having a hard time with him. How about John and Bobby, it won’t hurt to look into trying to get this guy.

By Curveball

October 25, 2005 12:54 AM | Link to this

LaRoche can barely hit the bench with his bottom, get a regular firstbaseman with power that can hit and play a little defense…remember the “Big Cat?” This platoon stuff is for the birds…no wonder these guys can’t deliver on a regular basis…but once again Sourhurtz will wait until the free agent cupboard is bare then try to recoup a few more old hasbeens while “unloading” even more payroll!

By david

October 25, 2005 10:32 AM | Link to this

For the fan talking about Ryno,you have to be kidding the only thing he has established is that he can’t hit lefties at all ,he still gets platooned and the Padres regret the day they signed him long-term.He’s below avg.defensively in the OF,his back prohibits him from playing 1B on a daily basis. He makes 8m+ yearly and thank God the braves got out from under him.He’s a perfect example of the type player most of the bloggers scream for Quote”the player who just wants it more and therefore he will deliver”.A 15 HR 60RBI, below avg defensively,but just wants it more.What he does deliver though is a constant daily dose of mediocrity.

By benjamin

October 25, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

any info on smoltz’s shoulder?

By Carroll

October 25, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

I, for one, was glad that rhino left. I liked him personally, but he was certainly NOT the type of player that I talk about the Braves needing to get. He is the exact opposite….ALWAYS swinging for the fences, slow, and yes, below avg defensively. I do like his personality but that’s not enough….same with Gily.

By Bruce

October 25, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this

The Braves need to offer F******* a decent contract, Of say 35 Mill. for 5 years. If he says no the bye bye. and spend the sash on more pitching

By brandon

October 26, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

When reffering t klesko i was saying [if you would read] that it was my “opinion”… not that i wished that he would of stayed in atlanta just that he would of put up better numbers if he would have left him alone..anyway they need to leave roachie alone cause i think he would produce all star caliber numbers… sheesh…. you think people would read what i put in there…JS always pulls stuff out of his hat and i think raffie needs to be resigned and go from therer.. cause if we can retain the services of mr. furcal that would be a positive start to the off season

By brandon

October 26, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

In rerrerence to curve ball..i beg to differ 20+ homers and 80 some odd rbis.. the price of first basemen these days is out of this world..so even if you consider roachie middle of the pack talent wise he is still better than most and once again that is my opinion

By brandon

October 26, 2005 04:27 PM | Link to this

refference

By david

October 26, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this

Brandon,I agree with your thoughts on Furcal and LaRoche,but I read your statement that if BC had left Ryno alone that he would have become an all-star caliber player.Far from it had he been left in on a everyday basis-he would have been exposed even earlier.San Diego let him play on a every day basis and it has been established that he is a platoon player with mediocore skills.I agree that BC does some things that are questionable? but his handling of Klesko is not one of them.He has proven to be just about what the Braves had him pegged as in earlier years.

By Curveball

October 27, 2005 01:32 AM | Link to this

Brandon, I don’t consider “Roachie” as middle of the pack talent—he is a slug—maybe he could play someday if he ever wakes up!…and you’s guys are startin to get on my nerves—everytime someone suggests a little change for the better for the Braves you old prehistoric fans want to resist it and badmouth people—like I said before Sourhurtz and Cox please don’t do anything different, keep those diehard fans cheering for you right on thru many more postseason “failures”—I’m finished with you losers and your losing attitude!

By brandon

October 28, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

Well im not here to start an arguement..I was just expressing my opinion… The Braves are very important to alot of people and sometimes we get very passionate about them… Dont hold that against us we just really care about the direction of our team… Furthermore it really doesnt matter what our opinion is, in fact our opinions are our desires for our team to do better.. Not harm it There are alot of people that think Furcal is an asset, as well as ithink that.. there are liabilities to him as there is with all players, bottom line Furcal needs to be given a shot to resign..If he wants more money it puts him in the catagory of sheffield, drew, lopez…etc..then we dont need him lets all hope JS can pull another one out…..lol

By Tim F.

October 28, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this

Braves were a big letdown in the playoffs keep furcal and loose giles trade chipper to get a desent closer in the bullpin. Chipper has been one of the greatest players for the braves during this generation but hes just like mike vick he gets hurt too often and you cant rely on him

By brandon

October 28, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

I agree somewhat about chipper, but you gotta look that when he is healthy he is one of the most dominant players in the game.. I think that we need to take a chance on him and hope he stays healthy…And hopefully he will restructure his lofty salary to get some bullpen help…I think we also need to resign Farnsworth also…thoughts anyone??

By Drumster53

October 30, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Should be an interesting off-season…McDowell was an interesting choice for pitching coach…remember him well with the Mets. Wait and see, huh? Looks like Atlanta is going to let Furcal hit the road…anyone know anything new on that saga?

By david

October 30, 2005 06:19 PM | Link to this

Regarding the Furcal saga,the Braves have scheduled a meeting with his represenative probably Tuesday and so far they have convinced the Furcal camp to hold off on filing for free agency.JS admitted that they have been trying to work out a contract extension with him since July.His agent was even quoted that he thought there was a good chance to get that done in mid September.They were unable to accomplish that though and they’ve agreed to meet Tuesday.Furcal’s agent has stated that if the Braves make a serious offer he could see Furcal re-upping and stated that his 1st preference was to remain in ATL.We’ll see !