Braves

By Kenny

October 7, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this

Recharge for sure for Saturday. If Cox plays Estrada, Franco and Jordan again we will have until the spring to recharge. I sure hope he lays off the “rabbit tabacco” and keeps last night’s lineup intact.

By Eric Nelson

October 7, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

Smoltz sets the championship tone that is critical.

So often, star pitchers evaporate in the playoffs with good scouting and adjustments. (can you say Tim Hudson?)

Oswalt is 0-2 against the Braves in 5 starts (regular season) and struggled enough against them last year in the post season to say that this is a very winnable game.

I think Sosa may surprise many, as his 9-0 road record and 4-0 record in Sept.

The question is can he give us 7 innings? With an off day today, Bobby just might use Farnsworth for 2 innings if he has to. Reitsma is a question mark, but if we have a sizable lead, then maybe you go to him.

The keys for the Braves will be the top of the order: Furcal reached base 3 out of 5 times last night, although he scored no runs he definately made Clemens work more.

With the Braves stacking the order with lefties in this game, look for LaRoche to make an impact, and perhaps a surprise from Langerhans (Who is a homecoming Texas boy).

After winning game 3, the Braves should go to Hudson on short rest and have Smoltz in reserve for game 5 at home.

Game 3 is the TOTAL key to the series and a MUST win.

By MT

October 7, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

With regards to Eric’s comments above, what do you think about who we should start in games 4 & 5(if the series goes that far)? If we go with Hudson in Gm 4, it’d be on 3 days rest, and then Smoltz in Game 5 also on 3 days rest. That might be tough, especially considering Smoltz’s tender shoulder. If we don’t do that, who in Game 4? Thomson, or Ramirez? I think Thomson, who has been inconsistent, but at least less inconsistent that Horacio. I like both of them, but I think maybe Thomson is a little tougher mentally, and could handle a pressure game a little better. Ultimately, I agree with Eric’s last comment—if we win Gm 3, that puts us in a much better situation either way, so go Sosa, and go Braves!

By Rodger

October 7, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this

I think Thompson is a better choice as well. He has been off again, on again since coming off DL, and I think this is do for his on again?…

Andruw has been terrific, especially with this year’s growth, and an apparent emotional fire recently. Let’s hope he can keep it up, and we can at least make it to play the Cards.

By Max Sizemore

October 7, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this

The at-bats preceding the two big two-out hits were critical: Francoeur’s walk (!) before the McCann homer and Andruw’s single before the LaRoche double. Bobby will never bring Smoltz back for game 5, which is why we have to win game three, take our chances with Thomson (?) in game four, and hope Hudson improves in game five. Smoltz to open the LCS at St. Louis.

By Jim

October 7, 2005 06:52 PM | Link to this

I just hope Cox kept last night’s line-up card and hangs it up every game the rest of the year … that was a team effort from top to bottom and resulted in a 7-1 win over a GREAT pitcher. Don’t go looking for that lightning Bobby, leave it alone. Go take a nap at game time and when the roar of the crowd wakes you after the last out, you can get up.

By Carroll

October 7, 2005 07:18 PM | Link to this

I don’t think BC will go back to BJ and Julio tommorrow, however, I just have this funny feeling that he might get cute and start Kelly Johnson in LF and very possibly start Estrada behind the plate (Laroche is safe for sure). Thank gawd Holly didn’t make the roster because with BC’s love of the useless vets, you know he’d be starting in LF against right handed pitchers (instead of Langy).

By Bill

October 7, 2005 07:59 PM | Link to this

Kirby’s post at the end of the last blog is well worth reading — I agree 100%. Reitsma may not be the best relief pitcher in the world but hearing boos after giving up 1 bloop hit in a 7-1 game was pretty harsh.

As for the line up in game 3 — chill out, folks. Oswalt throws with this right arm of Franco & BJ will not be starting. The bigger question will be what will the line up be if we face Pettite again.

As for the thought of “play the people who are hot” — how do you figure out who is hot? Under this theory (as many people argued in early September), Bobby Cox should have benched Laroche and his long swing in early September. If he had been benched, how would you figure out when he is hot again? Instead, Bobby stuck with him and now look what happens.

By Brian

October 7, 2005 08:35 PM | Link to this

I don’t care who’s hot, let’s go with who’s better. Can anyone seriously make a case that Jordan is better than any of our other outfielders at this point in his career - especially Langerhans who has been one of our best clutch hitters all year. Langerhans is faster, a better outfielder, a better average hitter (against righties AND LEFTIES), a better power hitter, better in RBI situations, and less likely to hit into double plays. I think this is what people have a problem with - when Bobby makes these kind of postseason moves that have absolutely no logic behind them. And for all you BC apologists from game 1, why be satisfied because we scored 5 runs when we played inferior players? Who knows, maybe we would’ve outscored them with our best lineup in there. The two old guys and the hurt catcher combined to go 1 for 10. Sure the pitchers didn’t come through, but we were at a huge disadvantage from the start with that lineup. If it wasn’t the reason for losing that game, I expect it to be the reason for losing a game in the future if Bobby didn’t learn his lesson. I like our chances in game 3 though facing another righty.

As for Reitsma, I think he is an average middle reliever whose problems have been magnified because we had to use him in too many crucial situations. Reitsma should have never had the opportunity to lead the league in blown saves. The argument can be made that Kolb’s failures are the reason everyone is so down on Reitsma. Or if we had any other reliable bullpen pitchers to replace Reitsma with when things start going badly that might’ve helped too. I’m just glad we have Farnsworth now…can you imagine the bullpen without him? I think he is the difference between us having a legitimate chance at winning the Series and not even making the playoffs. Go Braves!

By Ron Roberts

October 7, 2005 09:09 PM | Link to this

If I’m Boby Cox, I manage Saturday like it’s the 7th game of the WS. Why?

Losing puts the onus on the Sunday starter (who the heck will THAT be?) to put on a masterful performance. That starter WON’T be Smoltz, and I’m not even sure it’d be Hudson, on three day’s rest. I don’t trust anybody but Smoltz, in that situation, frankly, but my 2nd choice would still be Hudson. I don’t recal him pitching back-to-back duds this year, and ya know it’s eating him up the way he barely kept us within reach in a mediocre game 1 performance.

We HAVE to set the tone… Furcal must get on base and score, RIGHT away. Give Sosa a cushion and I think the jitters wouldn’t be so bad. I just hope Bobby and T.P. are burying that into Furkie’s mind. GET ON BASE. I know those fences look tempting, but BE A LEADOFF HITTER.

We do that, I think we win game 3, and frankly, the series.

By Carroll

October 7, 2005 09:54 PM | Link to this

RR: I think whether we win or lose tommorrow, Hudsy should start game 4. HE already pitched a gem there (Houston) earlier so maybe he’ll find a comfort zone. Plus, as you pointed out, the likelihood of back to back duds is small. Plus, we’ll likely be going against Backe or some other lesser pitcher so it gives Hudsy a good chance to get a win.

By Gritz Blitz

October 7, 2005 10:06 PM | Link to this

The ESPN guys are truly idiots. After Smoltz’s masterpiece last night, they were asked what pitcher they would pick for a game 7 start. Reynolds chose Randy Johnson and Kruk chose Schilling. Well, Johnson got shelled tonight and Schilling never made it to the mound. I am biased towards Atlanta, but I think that Smoltz is a no-brainer for a must win situation.

By Bill

October 7, 2005 11:46 PM | Link to this

Brian —

I agree 100% to go with who is better (instead of the vague notion of who is hot) & I agree that Langerhans is a better choice than Jordan. Who is better is less clear between Franco (with a lefty pitching) and Laroche — and the bulk of the blogs one month ago were all about dumping Laroche. On McCann vs. Estrada, there is an offense vs. defense issue to worry about. I would like McCann’s offense and Estrada’s ability to throw out runners & fewer passed balls. One thing that might have tipped the scales in McCann’s favor was that he has hit lefties fairly will this year while Estrada hits better against righties than lefties.

People have seemed to lump all 3 choices (Jordan, Franco & Estrada) into the same category — but the situations are not exactly the same.

On Reitsma, you hit the nail on the head.

By Fabrizio Di Muro

October 8, 2005 12:08 AM | Link to this

I’m thinking that rightly or wrongly, Bobby Cox will play Johnny Estrada in one game, and Brian McCann in the other this weekend. Saturday is a night game, and Sunday is a day game, and my guess is that Cox will alternate his catchers on the two days.

We know we’ll see Julio Franco against lefties, and Adam LaRoache against righties. It’s the way it’s been all season.

Carroll - I wouldn’t be so sure that the Astros will start Backe in game 4. Phil Garner might go with Andy Pettitte, especially if the Stros lose game 3. Also, I don’t think Smoltz is going to pitch on 3 days rest. He might walk into Bobby’s office, and say he can start game 5, if there is one, and Bobby might put him out there. But with Smoltz’s shoulder, I don’t think starting Smoltz in a possible game 5 on three days rest with no other option to go to is what Bobby has in mind. That’s why I don’t think Hudson will start game 4. I think we’ll see John Thomson, even if we’re down two to one. Just my opinion. Of course I’ve been wrong before. Famously wrong. We’ll see. Honestly, the best thing is for us to sweep the two games in Houston so that we can set our rotation for the NLCS. Let’s hope.

By doc

October 8, 2005 03:52 AM | Link to this

i’ve admitted my sins earlier in the season that i had tired of chipper’s act and said he was over rated but this year he has shown the type of enthusiasm and desire, along with clutch hits where it seems he is on more than auto pilot. it appeared he had gotten a bit jaded and even earlier in the season bemoaned that it was too bad the spending cap was going to keep them from adding some veterans to the mix. the youth took over and he like everyone else believes in these guys and shares their enthusiam. made him a better player.

what was fun in the second game was to see these young guys stare down the vets. i still dont beleve clemens let mccann hit in that situation, that was a HUGE mistake down 2-0 in the count, 2 on and the pitcher up next. i was thinking no way he sees a pitch to hit, then mccann sees it, doesnt flinch and it is out of the ball park. that is the new attitude these guys bring and it showed maybe ego and lack of respect on clemens part to go after the kid in that situation. bet it doesnt happen again but it points out these young guys are waiting for the mistakes by the other team and capitalizing on them rather than the other way around.

now, bobby dont bring these young guys out. it was a challenging stretch drive and the young boys didnt flinch then, believe they wont flinch now that they have made it to their first playofffs. they dont have a memory, we win here and it may be 2 or 3 world series in the next five years. they will quiet all your detractors if you go with them and dont get cute. stick by the book and ride the horse that got you here.

By GL

October 8, 2005 07:42 AM | Link to this

Does anyone truly believe that Reitsma can hald a one run lead in the eighth against the Astros, Cards or anyone else for that matter?

By GL

October 8, 2005 07:47 AM | Link to this

Sorry, I meant hold.

By Ken

October 8, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this

With all due respect to Bill, Estrada is a terrible catcher. He may have a better throwing arm than McCann, I will give you that one. But how runs has he cost the team with his inability and reluctance to cover the plate? Plus Smoltz practically said McCann calls a better game. Estrada came from the Phillies, how good can he be? He is a nice guy, but shows no enthusiasm before or during games. I say play him no more this season and trade him for anything of value before next season.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 09:45 AM | Link to this

Ken: agreed. I sometimes fool myself into thinking that Estrogenada is better defensively but you’re right…he’s only better to the extent that he throws a little better. But he shows absolutely no heart or cajones when it comes to blocking balls or god forbid blocking the plate. And while his hiting can be almost as good as McCann’s, you don’t even like to see him on the basepaths…you know he’s gonna gum up the works with his sloth-like speed.

By david

October 8, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

Bill, brings out a good point,you can’t lump all three choices together.I think you go with Langerhans in left field the rest of the series(although by reading Brian’s blog,I didn’t realize we have a young Barry Bonds on the team)Jordan at this point is probably better served as a bat off the bench in the right situation-it can not be against a Lidge type pitcher that can overpower him.But someone who throws 92 and down he can still be effective.That’s why his start against Pettitte though not what I would have done,it was not the end of the world.LaRoche while swinging very well is shaky against lefties and it must also be pointed out that Franco has also struggled his last 40-50 AB’s.This call is tough I believe I would go with Franco against Pettitte and LaRoche against every one else.The final choice between Estrada and McCann is to me the most complicated.We all agree that we prefer McCann’s bat and his potential& enthusiasm.Defense matters though and while Estrada is timid in blocking the plate,he still is the better choice defensively.The blogger that said McCann calls a better game is way off base.Smoltz calls his own game even by McCann’s admission.I believe McCann overall gives the best choice as long and tonights’s game will be the key he can keep the Astros from running wild.Sosa is the most ineffective starter we have at holding runners close and couple that with McCann’s sub-par throwing and it could be a receipe for disaster.If McCann can hold the running game to an acceptable level in game 3 and is still swinging a good bat then he is the better option,but if the Astros come out tonight and run wild on the bases then some thought has to be given to Estrada.As a lot of the bloggers seem to think it’s just as simple as THIS lineup=W and THAT lineup=L.I’m neither pro veteran lineup or anti rookie lineup I just want to WIN,no matter what player or players deliver as long as the BRAVES WIN. If it was as simple as just jotting down a particular lineup we(myself included)could all do it.That’s why there is only 7 managers still alive in the playoffs and the other 23 MLB managers along with the untold numbers of bloggers are sitting on either the couch or worse standing in the unemployment line.GO BRAVES!

By Bill

October 8, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

Ken —

Carroll will hate me for this but I don’t care — what do statistics show about comparing the two? What do you want on the defensive end from a catcher?

1. Pitch selection? Hard to quantify; I’ll take Smoltz’s quote as some evidence. I would hope a pitcher of Smoltz’s experience is not in much need of someone who can call a great game.

2. Throwing out runners? Estrada threw out 26 of 84 (about 30%) and McCann threw out 5 of 27 (under 20%).

3. Don’t let the ball get by you, especially with runners on base. Estrada was charged with 2 passed balls in 826 innings. McCann had 5 passed balls in 449 innings — not that good.

4. Fielding percentage? Estrada had 2 errors in 826 innings for a fielding percentage of .997; McCann had 3 errors in 449 innings and a fielding percentage of .991.

5. Blocking the plate — a relatively rare event but one that Estrada has a big problem on, admittedly.

Maybe Estrada is a terrible defensive catcher but McCann’s defense isn’t reminding me of Johnny Bench and his 10 gold gloves.

My point is mainly that people here blow some managerial decisions way out of proportion. I like McCann for some of the sentimental reasons that everyone else does — local kid becomes hero & the future is so bright, you’ve gotta wear shades. A year ago, many people were pretty happy with Estrada when he hit .314 but his defensive numbers were much worse than this year. Possibly one reason that people have a perception of Estrada as a poor fielder is that in 2004 he made lots of mistakes. But, is it fair to ignore his 2004 offense but evaluate his 2004 defense?

By david

October 8, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien I have a question if you happen to read this and can post the answer sometime.Of the players not on the playoff roster has every one hung around? or have they moved on?I’ve seen Hampton,Boyer,Davies,and Pena on TV camera shots.Have any of the other players left for various reasons?If any of the other bloggers have seen other players on TV or at the stadium feel free to contribute.

By Eric

October 8, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

Great posts, everyone. We might be getting a little ahead of ourselves. I can’t imagine not seeing Langerhans and LaRoche in today’s lineup. I will be disappointed, though not surprised, if we see Estrada.

I feel pretty sure we will see Backe for game 4, especially is the Astros win today. The key will be the next time, if ever, we see Pettitte again, either game 4 or game 5. That’s when we will find out how much influence we bloggers have on Bobby.

By Ron Roberts

October 8, 2005 12:08 PM | Link to this

David,

When this series is over, if I’m not mistaken, the managers who move onto the LCS can re-align their playoff roster, and drop and add players to their playoff roster. I’m not sure if it’s only for injury purposes, or if it’s just allowed, period, but I do know that managers can adjust their playoff roster with guys they’d left off it the prior series.

By david

October 8, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this

Ron,I’m aware that rosters can be adjusted between series,I’m more interested in what players actually hung around to cheer for their team or packed it in an headed to the house.Thanks though for the contribution.

By B.B. Abbott

October 8, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

As many of you may know, I represent Chipper Jones. As many of you may not know, I also represent Brian McCann and Macay McBride on this playoff roster. I am very proud of all of them. They are all great people, first and foremost, and they love this game and this organization. Great young men (albeit some younger than others - they make Chipper look old, huh?) to represent.

I, like many of you, was at Game 2 and was excited as anyone about their performances. Something that David points out that goes wholly overlooked is how Chipper has played 3B this year and last. So many people, including dozens on these blogs, wrote him off at 3B and said that he needed to take yet another one for the team and move to 1B to make room for Marte. I hope this talk ends. He should win the Gold Glove this year (but probably won’t). He has made 11 errors in over 200 games the last two years. He has, quite frankly, played better than anyone in the NL the last two years. I wanted to start off with that.

As far as McCann goes, many of you speculate that he won’t play tonight. He will. One thing Bobby Cox has always done is go with the hot hand. Estrada is a good player coming off a very good year last year, but you can tell that he is still feeling the effects in his back.

Something that doesn’t focused upon in this blog is that Bobby Cox is truly a classic. Being around the inside of this game for 7 years and being intimately aware of what happens in so many other organizations, please roll out the red carpet for this man. That goes for John Schuerholz, too. What they have done is truly remarkable. Chances are we will not see anything like this again in our lives.

Congrats to the Braves and their fans for a great Game 2 and a gutsy win. We’ll see how this thing plays out. Should be interesting and exciting.

B.B. Abbott Jet Sports Management

By david

October 8, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this

Very good point from someone who is in the know about JS &BC.When all the idiots are calling for BC’s scalp(it’s okay to disagree with his strategy)but the abuse that is heaped on him from these blogs are a disgrace.Keep Mr.Abbott’s post in mind when you come to these boards to sling venom about something you know very little about.Thank’s Mr.Abbott for taking the time to give the fans a little perspective.

By Eric

October 8, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this

david (small d), I’m trying to remember who was left off the roster. My list is Kolb, Davies, Boyer, James, Lerew, Pena, Hollandsworth, Marte, and Perez. I might be wrong or forgetting one or two. I’m sure you are right about the ones you have seen, and I have to believe Eddie is there. I don’t recall seeing any of the others, but now you are going to make me look closer. Meanwhile, I hope Dave O’B will fill us in. Some might have legit reasons for not being there, and maybe Dave will tell us about that too.

By David O'Brien

October 8, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

According to JS (not Smoltz, but Schuerholz) both Kolb and Hollandsworth left the team after being left off roster. He said no big deal, a lot of guys have done that over the years. Different strokes for different folks and all. They obviously didn’t believe, or were told directly, that they had any chance of being on the roster for later rounds.

Pena and Davies are in instructional league while Braves are in Houston, both staying sharp in case needed for later rounds. I’d be very surprised if Boyer’s shoulder improves enough to allow him to pitch in NLCS if Braves make it. It was pretty bad when he woke Monday after pitching Sunday in late reg-season game. Not surgery-bad, but sore and inflamed. Probably gonna take several weeks of rest before he’s ready to throw.

BB, I was thinking about 3B this season, and with Lowell having all-around bad year and Rolen being hurt, Gold Glove is wide open, or at least it would appear. Maybe I’m missing someone, but names that come to mind are Aramis Ramirez, Ensberg, David Wright, Troy Glaus, Garrett Atkins, Edwin Encarnacion .. none that exactly jumps off the page for glove work. And as we know, managers vote on Gold Glove and usually require the guy to hit some before considering him (example _ D. Lee of Cubs never got his due defensively when he didn’t hit a ton, and neither did A. Gonzalez of Marlins).

Lot of good hitters there at 3B this year, but no Rolen-like defenders. Who knows _ Chipper might indeed have a chance at it, though frankly I hadn’t thought about that until you mentioned it.

I just shake my head when I hear people say bring on Marte and move Chipper to first or to another team or wherever. (Although I certainly haven’t heard it much lately, not after folks got a glance at Marte this year and realized he might not be Mike Schmdt/Brooks Robinson hybrid just yet, despite all the breathless predictions from those who make their living rating prospects).

By david

October 8, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

Eric,you are right about Perez,I have seen him.I now see Mr.O’Brien has provided us with the info.Every one is free to draw their own conclusions. DOB thanks for the info.

By dannycardwell

October 8, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

chipper is the captain of this team now. it may not have been said, but he is, just like pendelton was. he has really grown as a player, leader and a person. he should get the gold glove. he is still the most disaplined and reliable hitter on this team. i would put him up in the clutch over any body on this team and in the top 5 in baseball. he is a complete player now and i see him working with the kids a lot, doing things he really dont have too. like talking to a young pitcher after giving up a lead in a game, or telling francouer and company to have short memories after a playoff lose. some things cant be put in numbers or stats. ive seen more fire in him and andrew this year than ever. if js dont trade these kids, the future looks mighty good.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 8, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this

DOB…Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

B.B. Abbott: First, you may remember that I was one of bloggers that was pushing to have Chipper moved to first base, but have since relented because Marte has not proven that he is ready for the big time yet. I wanted Chipper moved, not because he couldn’t play 3rd base, but because he is more adaptable to other positions and Marte has not proven to be that versatile. I agree with you about Chipper’s defense the last 2 years at third. He has been unbelievable. I remember when Castilla was here, I never worried when the ball went to him. I’m like that now with Chipper and am surprised when he does make a occasional error. I also agree with DOB that he has a decent chance at the gold glove this year. I believe that with Rolen out, Chipper and Castilla both have good shots because they are established at third. After that, I’d be curious to know how many other Braves might win a gold glove. We know Andruw will, but Furcal, Giles, and LaRoche have been as good as anyone this year. Francoeur and Langerhans could both win if not for the fact that they didn’t play enough. Catcher is the only spot where we don’t have a top-flight receiver. McCann certainly has the tools to be, and I expect that he will concentrate more on his craft this winter. Estrada shouldn’t be anything other than a backup for this team. A lot of people believe that it was the Erstad incident that made him such a wus behind the plate, but the truth is that he rarely ever blocked the plate before that. He also has a big problem with shifting his body on a throw in the dirt. He always tries to field the ball rather than blocking it. And I won’t even get into how slow he is. I seriously would rather trade him and keep Eddie Perez.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 8, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

Oh btw, I think that Langerhans is quickly becoming one of my favorite players. I just love the way he runs the bases and plays defense.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 8, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

And completely off the subject for being in the playoffs, you guys remember all the talk about trading Andruw over the last couple of years? Most of us felt that nobody would take that contract with his offensive inconsistancies. But now, I bet Schuerholz could get the world for him as well as free up $14 million from the budget. But, before anyone jumps on me, I wouldn’t trade Andruw unless it was for Pujols, and only then because Francoeur is the heir apparent to centerfield anyway. Just thought I would throw that out to you guys. I’ll start ducking now if you don’t mind.:-)

By doc

October 8, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

dob i do enjoy your input as it is enlightening and educative. it is as though you have taken it upon yourself to communicate and be a part of this process, clarify when necessary and lead rather than allow the rants.

i also appreciate acknowledging the risp nos. can be misleading but unfortunately used for many awards and though it is an important reflection it isnt the only image.unfortunately, people do harp on it like it is the most important stat. for example the shef leads the other league in risp but who would you consider for an mvp or a guy on your team, ill take aj in a minute because he does the little things that are beyond numbers that make a true mvp. besides the bottom line is we are the only ones concerned about mvp when it comes to aj, all he is concerned about is winning for the team. that is what makes him special.

By Mike K

October 8, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

I’d like to throw my two cents into the ring supporting more of the youth effort in the Braves lineup. Langerhans has earned a starting position and Brian Jordan should contribute off the bench as a pinch hitter. Mccann also deserves more playing time considering Estrada’s injury. Pitching is the key of course, and hopefully Sosa will carry the Braves tonight. If Furcal and Giles get on base consistently it will be very difficult to pitch around the Jones’s.

Related to other posts. Andy Marte is a future star of the Braves. We have to figure out a way to get him into the lineup. If that means Chipper spends his last few years at 1st base then so be it. It will be easier on his legs anyway.

By A Lifer

October 8, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

Tonight’s game is the key to the playoffs for the Braves in my opinion. If the Braves lose, they will be chasing their opponents the rest of the season. I say this because, knowing BC, Hudson would likely be given the task of tieing the series at 2. Even if he does win, then we would have to hope Smoltz would be able to pitch on 3 days rest. I just think that is too much to ask. And lets just pretend that they both won…then what kind of situation are we in against St. Louis? (I doubt that is a stretch to assume they would be the opponents.) Neither Hudson or Smoltz would be available for game 1 or 2! That looks like a potential 0-2 start against the Cards. If Sosa and the bullpen (since Sosa is not likely to go past 6 innings) can put the game away tonight, then BC can trot out Thompson for game 4. Thompson is VERY capable of having a good pitching performance—he has been looking better of late. Now I admit that he would most assuredly have a short leash, but, in winning game 4 (even if we have to use the whole bullpen) we would then set ourselves up to play against the Cards with Hudson and Smoltz starting games 1 and 2 on a full 5 days of rest. I can then envision a 2-0 start. Any real problem with that anyone?

By Eric

October 8, 2005 03:20 PM | Link to this

Hollandsworth’s taking off doesn’t bother me much because he was a late pickup and must have known he didn’t really belong here. Kolb is another matter. Here is a guy who spent 6 months with the team, 162 games at home and on the road, and getting several million dollars to stink up the place worse than any Braves player in recent memory - - and he slinks off, probably pouting because he didn’t make the roster. That says a lot about the guy’s character, and I hope bringing him back has not even entered JS’s mind.

By david

October 8, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this

Lifer,I like and agree with most of your points except you are giving way too much credit to the Cards.Let’s win this series and then we still have a good shot at the Cards no matter how our rotation starts.The Cards are very beatable by whomever wins this series.

By david

October 8, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

Eric,that’s why I posed the question.That would be my general thoughts on Kolb also.Good riddance!

By Eric

October 8, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this

david, I agree with your assessment of the Cards, but I think Lifer makes an excellent point. If Hudson and Smoltz have to go in games 4 and 5, then they would likely be available only for games 3 and 4 in the NLCS, maybe game 7 if we were to get that far. Making just one appearance in the NLCS is definitely NOT the reason Hudson was signed and Smoltz was brought back. I agree that the Cards are not invincible, but having to rely on Sosa and Thomson/Ramirez for 3 of the first 5 games is not a good formula. Of course, we have more pressing matters before we start worrying about that!

By david

October 8, 2005 04:26 PM | Link to this

Eric,I know it,s not the best scenario.If the Braves can win tonight,I would go with Hudson in game 4,I personally feel his strengths as pitcher(power sinker)may be better suited for 3 days rest.You then hopefully have Smoltz for game 5,if he can not go then I would feel more comfortable rolling the dice with Thomson or Ramirez at home.My pick would be Thomson.I think we try to do everything possible to win a.s.a.p. Maybe the Padres can win at home and give the Cards some pitching decisions also.Carpenter in game 4 ? or hold for game 5 ? Let’s just win tonight and go from there.Thoughts?

By B.B. Abbott

October 8, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

Jerry, I know you were one, but from what little I’ve seen of these posts, you seem to always think out (and continue to think out) your blogs. No problem with that, nor with people having their opinions. Chipper went through a spell a few years back before he moved to the OF when he was not trusting his feet or his instincts at 3B. He’ll be the first to tell you that. Now, you will see a tremendous first step and a player that is trusting his baseball instincts. Listen, as I’ve said here in the past, Chipper will ALWAYS do what is in the best interests of this team. He has a deep and profound affection for this team and this city, although again, people sometimes have the misperception that he doesn’t. When it is time to move, he will. Now is not that time with the way he is playing this game. I’ve been extremely proud of him as a player and friend this year. Hopefully, most of the true fans have been, too. Good luck tonight fans.

By david

October 8, 2005 05:56 PM | Link to this

Lineups are posted.Braves have the exact same lineup 1-8 as gm 2.Astros one change-Lamb playing 1st base and Berkman shifts to lf.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 08:18 PM | Link to this

Is there some rule somewhere that says we have to start out behind the 8 ball EVERY stinkin time???!!! I swear they get us out so EASY and every inning is an abortion for us when they’re batting!

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 08:29 PM | Link to this

Another great job by a starter in the first ining! What the hell is it with this team!!?? WHy is this TERRIBLE offense KILLING us??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Eric

October 8, 2005 08:32 PM | Link to this

Carroll, lower your blood pressure. We were down 1-0 after one inning in game 2, and look how that turned out.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 08:34 PM | Link to this

I know but it just sux how we ALWAYS have to bite our nails and drink our pepto praying for a comeback. I wish just once we could dominate from start to finish.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 08:40 PM | Link to this

I swear BC never ceases to amaze me. Ya know, you just saw the ChiSox sweep the defending goddang world champs by playing SMART, sound fundamental ball! When you have 1st and 2nd NO out in a game like this, YOU BUNT YOU BUNT GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY YOU BUNT!!! I don’t care if it’s friggin Babe Ruth at bat! BC’s dumbass just cost us a rally because he can’t swallow his dang pride and have Francy bunt! Thanks a lot idiot!

By Eric

October 8, 2005 08:48 PM | Link to this

And that would have been your position if Francoeur had hit a 3-run homer? I know you are excitable, Carroll, but take a deep breath.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 08:51 PM | Link to this

YES that would’ve been my same position!! I am SICK of sitting back and waiting on homers! We should have a dang 2 run lead right now!!!

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 09:32 PM | Link to this

COME ON CHIPPER!!! DIVE DAMMIT!!! How do you let a little dribbler like that get by you in a playoff game???!!!!!

By Eric

October 8, 2005 09:40 PM | Link to this

And had he dived, do you really think he would have gotten Tavares ar first? Deep breaths, deeeeep breaths.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 09:46 PM | Link to this

either way, would you rather have tavarez at 2nd or 1st?!

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 09:55 PM | Link to this

Why is Devine warming up? Where are Thommy and/or Rammy? What are we saving them for? Now is when we need the veteran experience that BC loves so much more than any other possible time!

By Eric

October 8, 2005 10:11 PM | Link to this

Have you ever seen so many cheap “hits” as Tavares gets? A couple of dead quails over Giles’ head last time, now two wimpy ground balls. I guess we have to give him credit for making contact, but he’s hurting us with that junk.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 10:18 PM | Link to this

Seriously….why are Thommy and Rammy even on the roster if we’re gonna use two bonafied losers and a 21 y/o kid instead of them when it matters most?

By mizb

October 8, 2005 10:20 PM | Link to this

Not to be a dampler…but without dominating starting pitching (except for John Smoltz) and at least a competent bullpen, the Braves can’t go very far in the playoffs. I have seen this game too many times before (Game 1 and numerous regular season games)…starting pitcher leaves down 1-2 runs, one of the guys from the bullpen comes in and totally implodes…makes it even harder for the offense to catch up, game lost. If by some miracle the Braves win this game (and the series)…then something’s in the air and I believe. But conventional wisdom would say that this team just does not have the pitching to make it deep into the playoffs. oh well. Last I peeked, the Astros are now up 5 runs, nobody out, bases load…what else is new???

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 10:22 PM | Link to this

And again I reiterate, this is a nobody, nothing offense. Even our terrible pen was decent sometimes. But these guys have a horseshoe up their arses.

By Brian Donegan

October 8, 2005 10:29 PM | Link to this

What did we ever do to deserve this. I mean there is always tomorrow to even the series back up again but you know that if we tie it up we’re going to find someway to lose Game 5 for the 4th straight year (AT HOME NO LESS!!) There’s no explanation for this. It doesn’t matter how good we are for 162 games…we just can’t get over that hump. There is no one at fault…it is just the Baseball Gods at work.

Well after four years of this all the ignorant idiots will demand Cox’s head. and then it will all be over. Back to last place for the next decade like it used to be. Ugh I am so depressed.

By Eric

October 8, 2005 10:31 PM | Link to this

You aren’t be a damper, mizb, you are just saying the obvious. Except for a few rosy souls, most of us gave the Braves very little chance to succeed in the playoffs. The routine is predictable. Starters are wild, pitch count soars, bullpen needed by the 6th inning, dead meat. It would take a miracle to get past the first round, and most of us have been saying that for a month.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 10:33 PM | Link to this

NOBODY’S FAULT??!! I think you can pretty much blame this entire thing on our incompetent bullpen. Again I ask, does ANYONE know why we’re not using Thomson or Ramirez?

By Jerry Holcombe

October 8, 2005 10:36 PM | Link to this

I know a few of you must be pulling your hair out right now, but you know this was gonna happen. This bullpen is terrible and it has been terrible for most of the season. Whether Atlanta advances to the NLCS or the WS is a moot point because no team that I can remember has EVER won consistantly with sheot like we have oozing from the bullpen. And the stench continues to follow them to the mound. These steaming turds couldn’t get minor leaguers out. Soooooo, lose now or lose later, I don’t care one way or another, but lose they will because our offense cannot average 8 or more runs a game over the long haul. As for why Thomson hasn’t be seen out of the bullpen, more than likely it’s because Bobby plans to start him on Sunday. I hope that’s what happens because I just don’t like the idea of Hudson losing twice for us. Of course, he’ll probably pitch the 5th game if we are fortunate enough to take it to five games. Another observation: With as many doubles as Houston has in this game, why are they continuing to play Langerhans towards left-center? Either paint to outside of the plate, or reposition your fielders. I sure hope we concentrate on getting some decent bullpen help for next year. Even moreso than trying to resign Furcal.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 8, 2005 10:43 PM | Link to this

Holy sheot! Brian Jordan my @ss.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 10:43 PM | Link to this

Jerry: okay s een if he plans to use Thommy tommorrow, where is Rammy then? I know he’s not been stellar this year but ANYTHING is beter than Reeksma/Foster/Devine, right? By the way, I have a good feeling about Hudsy tommorrow….as RR ointed out, I ust don’t se back to back duds from him….AND he pitched very well at Houston earlier this year.

By Eric

October 8, 2005 10:44 PM | Link to this

Bobby didn’t get the fax. Langy hits lefties better than Jordan hits anybody.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 8, 2005 10:44 PM | Link to this

What a line shot off the bat of Jordan! It almost went out.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 10:45 PM | Link to this

Wow…the spelling in my last post was about as bad as the bullpen. I’m really not a retard but I think I screwed up my keyboard by pounding so hard in anger.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 10:46 PM | Link to this

It’s the same ole song n dance.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 8, 2005 10:52 PM | Link to this

Really Carroll? You think that Ramirez is better out of the pen than any of the others? How can you rate a floater against a sinker? Sheot is sheot, no matter how you wipe your butt. And I admire your belief that Hudson will pitch better tomorrow, but the facts say that he is a very average post season pitch before this year with a 1-2 record and 3.44 ERA. Sorry, I don’t share your hopes and it wouldn’t matter anyway because he would have to pitch 8 innings to get to Farnsworth.

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 10:57 PM | Link to this

DOn’t get me wrong Jerry. Like I said before, our season ended when the sorry a* Cubs and Greg Maddux bent over for the astros on the last day of the season like the little b*** they are….and we got hung with Houston instead of the Padres. But, I would DEFINITELY take Rammy over those three losers I mentioned any day.

By True

October 8, 2005 10:58 PM | Link to this

You would think that with the law of averages our bullpen would come up with a string of successful innings at some point. I think it’s just a lack of heart. The guys have no confidence and look scared, the batters can tell this and they dig-in and get hits. I’m also disapponted in our 1-3 hitters, they just didn’t show up to play tonight.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 8, 2005 11:00 PM | Link to this

Dandy Don is singing in the background. You older boys know what I’m talking about.

By Scott

October 8, 2005 11:08 PM | Link to this

John Smoltz threw 229 innings this year. He is 38 years and has had several major arm surgeries. He may not pitch again in the playoffs. Do you think it would have been a good idea to hold him back in a few starts throughout the season to keep him fresh?

By Rodger

October 8, 2005 11:08 PM | Link to this

Stop me if you’ve heard this one-the Braves are down by a run or two, and Reitsma and Foster come into the game…wait, you’ve heard it? I guess Cox must be the only one who hasn’t.

By Marc Spoor

October 8, 2005 11:09 PM | Link to this

I am about to vent, and I don’t care if all of those positive bloggers want to b***.

First off what the hell happens to Bobby Cox in the playoffs.

Why not let Sosa throw seven or even eight innigs? He had thrown pretty well and he kept us in the game. What the hell is Bobby Cox saving him for, next year? Like our bullpen is going to do better.

Why bring in Reeksma in the seventh, the guy flat out sucks. He should be used in blow out situations only, like game 2. Why not bring in Devine to start the inning? He throws hard, let him get himself in trouble. Instead Bobby is going to destroy this kid by bringing him into impossible situations.

Why bring in Foster instead of McBride? Foster sucks, he can’t get anyone out. He is not a situational pitcher.

Why not bring in McBride to startt the inning if you are not going to use him situationally.

Why not use Thompson? Committ to the fact that Hudson must start game four, and Smoltz game five.

Why pinch hit with Jordan, he is worthless. Look at Franco’s hit off Lidge. Bobby should have pinch hit with Franco.

I am sick of BC loosing playoff games for us, and I am sick of this bullpen. It is time to man up. Hitters need to come through, pitchers need to step up, and BC needs to stop outmanaging himself.

I am also tired of this at least we got here b*t, does anyone really care that much about getting 4 extra games. I want these guys to win a World Series, I think they can do it. Go Braves, now is the time.

By Rodger

October 8, 2005 11:11 PM | Link to this

I’m starting to wish Devine had stayed in school too.

By Anna

October 8, 2005 11:14 PM | Link to this

I just don’t get it and I probably never will. But if there was such a thing as a manager choking in the playoffs, Bobby Cox is doing it. I love Bobby and his loyalty is amazing. But when you keep throwing Reitsma out there and it keeps costing you game after game after game, then it’s time to think that maybe, just maybe, he should give the ball to someone else.

I can understand that he doesn’t have much to work with in the bullpen in the first place, but if there’s one guy I trust the least right now, it’s Chris Reitsma. I don’t care if he’s not really getting hammered out there (which, by the way, they should stop using as an excuse). The fact is, once he gets baserunners on, he can’t get himself out of trouble. It’s so frustrating because some of the moves Bobby makes aren’t even questionable at this point. They’re just outright wrong.

I think I need a drink. Maybe tomorrow we can somehow keep our season alive…sans Reitsma.

By Rodger

October 8, 2005 11:17 PM | Link to this

Maybe we could go ahead and start Reitsma tomorrow-I’ve got a football game to watch anyway…

By Brian Donegan

October 8, 2005 11:18 PM | Link to this

all I can say is that Selig needs to increase the Division series to Best-of-seven. Much more fair to everyone. The NHL, and NBA do it that way already with all of their playoff seres. Why does baseball have to be differant?

By Jerry Holcombe

October 8, 2005 11:21 PM | Link to this

Marc, you may be a bit delusional if you think the Braves could win a World Series with anyone in this bullpen. I don’t think that Bobby deserves any criticism because he uses certain relievers as opposed to others. He has to use somebody and nobody in that pen has ponied up and shut anyone down. And what difference does it make if Sosa pitches one more inning? He was already over 90 pitches and I don’t think that you so overpitch someone because your bullpen blows the big purple bulb.

By True

October 8, 2005 11:24 PM | Link to this

Right-On Marc! Then again, how about our offense getting ahead for a change. We can’t expect the starters to shut people out for x amount of innings and then try to steal a win out in the end.Offense matters more in the playoffs than it did 5-10 years ago, the times where your starter is going to win 1-0 and pitch 8-9 innings are rare.

By 3Pitch

October 8, 2005 11:28 PM | Link to this

The wild card team should be handicapped going into the post season. The wild card team and the division winner with the worst record should have a one game playoff. Then the loser would play the division winner with the best record. This would help to handicap the weakest teams in theplay-offs. The automatic seeding is not fair to the division winners with the best records.

By Eric

October 8, 2005 11:31 PM | Link to this

Marc, I think you really nailed it. After the game 1 debacle, I said that I hoped Bobby took note of McBride’s great inning of relief. Apparently, he didn’t, choosing to go with Foster instead.

I feel so sorry for that Devine kid. Bobby might be ruining his confidence for all time. I blame Leo, too.

Bobby waved the white flag when he sent Jordan up there when we had an outside chance to get back in the game.

Finally, I absolutly agree with you about Sosa. When Bobby began using him as a starter, I could understand not wanting to push him much beyond the 5th, 6th inning. By now, he should be able to go 7-8. Did Bobby really have illusions about the pen keeping us close?

I watch the 38-year-old Smoltz with 4 elbow surgeries and a sore shoulder go out there and pitch his heart out deep into the game, but this young fellow needs to give way to the likes of Reitsma and Foster. I just don’t get it.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 8, 2005 11:43 PM | Link to this

Brian, do you think that Atlanta would have a better shot at advancing if this was a best of seven series? In another world, I might agree with you, but in a best of seven, it would only extend our misery.

You guys remember early this season when so many were saying that Reeksma deserves a chance to be the closer? Well, I hate to say that I told you so, but….. The great thing is that we shouldn’t EVER…EVER have that discussion again. C’mon Schuerholz, clean house during the winter. Get rid of Reeksma, Brower, Foster. Send Devine, McBride, and Lerew back to the minors. Keep Davies, but give him a short rope and hope he doesn’t get hung with it. Try to resign Farnsworth but don’t give him true closer money. Boyer will be back and he’s the only decent reliever we have right now. Oh, and pick up the option on Thomson’s contract. It’ll be a deal.

By Aaron

October 8, 2005 11:51 PM | Link to this

I wonder why BC wants to carry 12 pitchers on the postseason roster; he seems to rely on the same losers every night. (Reitsma and Foster)

By Carroll

October 8, 2005 11:58 PM | Link to this

Aaron: that’s exactly what I’ve been screaming all night. It’s totally inexplicable. It’s like in years past when our 4th and 5th starters like Millwood and Neagle would get completely forgotten during tha playoffs while s** loser relievers ruined games.

By Brian Donegan

October 9, 2005 12:00 AM | Link to this

I have been thinking about this for a few minutes. If some miracle happens and we do end up winning tomorrow I really like our chances Monday night. John Smoltz dominated the Astros on Thursday night. In addition Petit isn’t unhittable. We’ve already proven we can hit and score runs off of him. The only way we win tomorrow to get to that point is if Hudson can go 7-8 innings.

I would love to win these next two games just so that we don’t have to live with 4 straight NLDS defeatz hanging over our heads. There’s no way we get past the Cards.

By david

October 9, 2005 12:06 AM | Link to this

We had a chance until the bullpen door swung open in the bottom of the 7th.I would like to see Hudson or whomever starts gm 4 to fire the first pitch under Biggio’s cap bill and see if that might slow down the diving across the plate to pull the ball down the LF line.

By F***ing Tired Braves Fan

October 9, 2005 12:08 AM | Link to this

BC is a fing moron. How many fing times does that SOB Reitsma have to fck up a game, before these idiots stop using him. We suck a, and have no chance thanks to the stupidity of BC and the sh* play of Reitsma & Foster. Why the hell can’t we give Ramirez or Thomson the call in middle relief, after all nothing could be worse than this f**er Reeksma. This blows!

By Aaron

October 9, 2005 12:10 AM | Link to this

David, I agree that Biggio needs to be knocked down, hit or something. He just looks to comfortable when he’s hitting.

By Marc Spoor

October 9, 2005 12:18 AM | Link to this

Jerry, you should reread my blog, and read Eric’s blog before calling me delusional. I think you will find my blog well thought out. Maybe you just don’t understand the nuiances of baseball. BC doesn’t deserve any criticism. I think you are delusional. Sosa is a major league pitcher, I am quiet sure he is capable of throwing more than 90 pitches. He was matching Oswalt almost. If you give him another inning or two, than I don’t know you do the math, we would have tied the game. Have we ever tried using McBride or Devine to start an inning. All I am saying is mix it up, the sign of a good manager is one who can adapt, and BC doesn’t show that. If you were trying to unlock a door with a key, and it didn’t work over and aver again, wouldn’t you try to use another key?

BC isn’t the only one to blame, but two starters kept us in the game and our offense has scored enough. IN my opinion these two losses fall squarely on the shoulders of Tim Hudson, Bobby Cox, and the bullpen.

By Aaron

October 9, 2005 12:19 AM | Link to this

I know the bullpen blows, but our number 1 or 2 hitters aren’t exactly helping a lot either. (At least Andruw is showing why he is the MVP of the National League.)

By Mugato

October 9, 2005 12:28 AM | Link to this

I think we win the series. Hudson’s gonna dominate tommorrow for 8 innings and that gets us back to game 5 and Smoltz…precisely the reason we moved him back into the starting rotation. If BC will just stop using the 3 losers, and start using Thommy/Rammy in relief I know we can do it.

By Miles

October 9, 2005 12:30 AM | Link to this

Ok guys…im pretty p** off right now after that terrible loss…but here’s my take. None of the blame should go on Sosa, this kid pitched a solid game which is all that could have been asked from him considering it was his first career playoff start. Why bobby didnt go with him in the 7th instead of going with the bullpen is beyond me. The bullpen cost us another game, same s** different day, Reitsma has had no confidence for the past month but stubborn Bobby keeps going to him. Foster shouldnt be pitching at this level and that kid Devine may never ever pitch well at this level considering Cox keeps putting this kid in impossible situations which even the best relievers would have problems getting out of. Keep in mind Devine was in high school last year and just got drafted over 2 months ago. The sad thing is, hes being relied upon because we have absolutely no one else. This brings up the question, why did we trade away Gryboski for Brower? The solid playoff veteran Gryboski, being a ground ball specialist, would have helped us tremendously in getting out of these bases loaded situations. Instead we have Brower who we dont even use. Our hitting has been suprisingly clutch this year in scoring situations, unfortunately, Furcal and Giles keep swinging for the fences creating easy outs. Without them on base the Jones boys cant do much damage. Andruw’s current hitting tear in this series is being completely wasted because the top of the lineup isnt getting on base. If it wasnt for the rookies we could be looking at a sweep right now. Right now we are down 2-1, Cox will start Hudson against Backe which we will most likely win. However, after seeing smoltz grimmace through pain in game 2, I dont know how he will even pitch 5 innings in game 5 and even if he does, do you really trust the bullpen to win it for us? Game 3 was pivotal for us because with a win it meant going with Thomson in Game 4 and hope for the best. If that didnt work out we would go with Hudosn on full rest in game 5 with Smoltz coming out of the bullpen to pitch in relief if need be. Even if we somehow pull out a series win, we are in a terrible position to take on the Cardinals because Hudson and Smoltz wouldnt be able to pitch until games 3 and 4. The sad thing about all of this is that we finally have a well rounded, clutch hitting offense and now find that the pitching, our strength for so many years, cannot get the job done.

By dannycardwell

October 9, 2005 12:30 AM | Link to this

aarons right. bobby lost this game, just as he did game one. there are other pitchers he can use, but he is set in his ways. it killed us last year and will this year. as much as i respect him, he is ruining devines career by throwing him to the wolves when he has other options. foster should not have made the post season roster and neither should brower. as good as bobby is, he will not change his thought process when it comes to playoff games. we do have more than 3 bullpen pitchers, why not use them? reitsma is a good pitcher that has been over used and it shows. this could have been our year, so much for thinking out of the box. sleep well bobby, if you can.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 12:30 AM | Link to this

Mugato, let’s hope!

By Aaron

October 9, 2005 12:41 AM | Link to this

Reggie Sanders has had more RBIs in three games than he had the entire time with the Braves.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 12:41 AM | Link to this

Danny: Brower has been the only decent bullpen pitcher so far.

By the way, Gryboski was TERRIBLE for us this year. His era was decent but that’s only because he would come in for one or two batters and give up the last pitchers runners then he’d get yanked and someone else would come in and save his sorry a*.

It is truly uncanny how our luck has worked out with relievers. Granted BC has made the absolute worst use possible, but he hasn’t had a whole lot to work with. You would think you could randomly select 10 guys from the stands and at least one or two of them would be able to get an out. But our “professional ballplayers” look completely lost and helpless.

By david

October 9, 2005 01:24 AM | Link to this

Let’s face it guys take a long look at our pen.(1) Farnsworth-the makings of a very good closer unproven in post-season.(2)McBride-looks promising but has 14 innings at the major league level.(3)Brower-career journeyman-has been surprisingly effective this series.(4)Reitsma-an enigma definitely has major league stuff but just not effective in the clutch for the Braves,attribute this to what you will-bad luck, overuse, truly puzzling because he should be effective with 3 high quality pitches,it’s not going to happen in ATL though.(5)Devine-major league arm but just out of college,I don’t buy the notion that BC is going to ruin him though,his problem has been that he just flat-out failed when called on.If we had better quality in the pen he would not have been included on the post-season roster.(6) Foster-limited talent and does okay in limited situations probably makes the most of his limited skills.In a quality pen he would not be called on in key spots.As for Thomson or Ramirez I assume Thomson is being held for a possible game 4 or 5 appearance.Hard to judge with the questions about Hudson on short rest? and Smoltz shoulder? Ramirez-please with his proclivity for the long ball and timid approach on the mound,he was brought along for emergency start or 13th inning duty after every one else has been used.I’ll even give a short summary of the pitchers not on the roster.Kolb,Davies,Lerew and James. Lerew-major league arm,limited exp.James-same as Lerew.Davies-this is just an opinion but limited talent and he will never be a quality major leaguer.Kolb-need I say anything. SO I POSE THE ?? Who wins with this collection,what manager of any current team or a manager of any era? The only hope is to have a game like game 2 when the pen is basically taken out except for Farnsworth or get complete games from your starter or 8 runs from the offense.I submit that the chances of winning a short series with this setup, especially playoffs is very slim. Probably all you need to know is that I ranked these guys in order of effectiveness at the present time and a kid with 14 innings is number 2 and an old journeyman is number 3.The “27 Yankees “lose with this pen.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this

Anybody who would pick ANY of our non-farnsworth relievers over Rammy has not been watching all year long. He is Cy Young compared to those clowns. Even if he came in and gave up his typical homer but otherwise gave his typical solid performance….isn’t that better than watching a combo of 3 guys come in and completely unravel the entire game!!!!!???

By Buddy Dixon

October 9, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this

Just wanted to let all of you Brave fans know this: It doesn’t make any difference who Cox brings out of the pen, the Astros are going to hammer them. Bring back Maddux and Glavin, puy Smoltz back in the closers role…try as you will, nothing is going to keep the 2005 ‘Stros from sending the Braves and their fans home crying. It’s over, guts!

By david

October 9, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this

Carroll,you equally decried Rammy all season long as a soft tosser who could not cut it in the playoffs.Post after post,typically you wait to see who doesn’t perform and then you criticize,you would also unload on “Rammy had he been ineffective” The people that post here regularlly know that this is the absolute truth.You are not happy unless you are b*** about something.You are prone to wildy irrational criticisms and there is no baseball logic in your statements.There have been at least 20 postings from you criticizing “Rammy” ,I’ve watched all year long I just don’t choose to bury someone on Saturday and then praise them on Sunday like you do.

By Bill

October 9, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

Here is the argument for lifting Sosa in the 7th: we were behind and had 8 outs left. If the game was close, how many outs of those outs were going to come facing Lidge? It was a classic National League offense/defense dilemma. If Sosa’s spot had not come up, he would have pitched the 7th. The hope was that Kelly Johnson would get on base, either Furcal or Giles (or both) would follow with hits and Chipper would come up to take the lead. In the 7th, if Oswalt had faltered, it would have been too early to go to Lidge. If it was close in the 8th, then Lidge would be able to clean up any trouble that Oswalt ran into.

Remember a few weeks ago when Bobby inexplicably let a pitcher hit late in a game (Hudson) — the gamble failed both offensively & defensively and the critics screamed. This time around (albeit in a less clear situation), Bobby opted to pinch hit in hopes of starting the rally. Again, it failed both offensively (the pinch hit grounded out) and defensively (the bullpen was a disaster). The choice of pitchers, on the other hand, is quite puzzling. Ramirez should be better starting an inning than coming in during an inning — so why not have him start the 7th? Plus, if Ramirez had a good 7th, he could pitch the 8th. Instead, he never gets in the game. Why Foster over McBride?

The key point is how a dominant closer like Lidge can cause all sorts of strategic decisions to change — long before he even comes in the game. Bobby could have let Sosa hit in the 7th but it is a tough call. I remember wondering when the top of the 7th started that it was a tough call. I really hoped that McCann would get on first so that Sosa could bunt him over & stay in the game. Interestingly, Leo did not seem to tell Sosa that he was out of the game until after McCann finished his AB.

By david

October 9, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

Very good points Bill,the only chance Sosa had to stay in the game would have been for McCann to reach and Sosa to be able to sacrifice.As you correctly point out all due to Lidge the most dominant closer in the NL.

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

I want to believe too, but whay does anyone think Huddy dominates today? Have we seen anything all season, much less game 1, that gives us that faith?

Regardless, if Reeksma is even IN the bullpen today, Cox should be suspended, fired, shot, whatever!

By Kirby

October 9, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

The Astros came up big yesterday, and the Braves didn’t. The obvious culprits were the relief pitchers, but one also must look at the difference in performance among the first three hitters in each lineup:

Furcal was 0 for 5 yesterday and is hitting .214 for the series. Biggio was 3 for 5, and is hitting .500 for the series.

Giles was 1 for 5 yesterday, struck out 3 times, and is hitting .231 for the series. Taveras was 2 for 5 yesterday and is hitting .455 for the series.

C. Jones was 0 for 4 yesterday and is hitting .182 for the series. Berkman was 1 for 3 and is hitting .333 for the series.

As someone posted earlier, the good news is that Andruw is hot and hitting well, but the batters in front of him have to get on base.

Yes, the relief pitching was horrific, but unless Hudson dominates today, the hitters better score more than 3 runs.

By A Lifer

October 9, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this

Well, if the first half inning is any indication…..another short playoff appearance for the braves.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this

Another GREAT start to a playoff game! Why don’t you little ladies just go home now and spare us all the humiliation. You should all be fixed so you can’t pollute the baseball gen pool with your pussydom! Pathetic!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

See what I mean about BC…why wasn’t roachie bunting…AND WHY THE F*** CAN’T FRANCY EVER TAKE A DAMNED PITCH???!!!

By A Lifer

October 9, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

Carol: I am frustratated, but I am not so sure I would just want these guys to quit….however, I agree with you regarding BC’s lack of choice to bunt with laroche in the 2nd. Hudson looks pretty good so far, play for 1 run every time!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

Okay it’s time to start Pete Orr at 2b…Giles SUX!!

And why isn’t Fooky trying to steal??!! Grow some balls Braves!

By Eric

October 9, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

LaRoche silenced the fans, but best of all he silenced Carroll.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

Relax, Carroll - - just kidding you.

By A Lifer

October 9, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this

(I know it is early with Hudson on short rest and our bullpen, but…) Suppose we win today….is Smotlz really physically able to go on 3 days rest? Does BC start Thompson and have Smoltz ready in case he gets on the rocks? It is at home and Thompson does perform well at Turner Field????

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry Eric…nobody could upset me right now!! We finaly have something to be happy about! And Hudsy is pitching like a REAL pitcher….just like I said he would!

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

Smoltz would go tomorrow if they had to staple his arm on and give us 5 or 6 good innings

By A Lifer

October 9, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

Let’s say Smoltz can only give 5 good innings and leaves the game in a tie ballgame or only ahead 1 or 2 runs….who comes in? Maybe Thompson then?

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this

I have a bad feeling that the squandered scoring chance in the top of the 5th might come back to haunt us. And Hudsy’s obviously getting tired.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

Rookie mistake in the 5th. Bases loaded and McCann takes the first pitch for a ball. Gotta make him throw a strike, Brian. Gets jammed on the next pitch and bounces weakly to 2nd. Hope someone talks to him.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

Chipper you sorry sonofabitch! YOU SUCK!!! There goes our chance to put the damned game away!

By Eric

October 9, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

Short memory, Carroll. Chipper’s double in the 5th led to our 5th run. He made the mistake of letting himself get jammed, but sux? C’mon.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

sorry…i HATE squandered scoring opps…got a li’l worked up.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this

Me too. I groaned loud enough that my wife came in to check on me!

By Eric

October 9, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this

Well, we haven’t picked on Gonzalez yet. There was only one out and Slo-Mo LaRoche running, my friend. What was he thinking?

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

NO! That was on that retard Laroche! What a sloth rounding the bases!! And what’s with the tippy toe tap dancing to the plate…KNOCK THE CATCHERS F*** HEAD OFF!!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 03:16 PM | Link to this

Since the granny, Laroche screwed that play up AND two innings ago struck out w/ man at 3rd and 1 out like he ALWAYS does! Man up you friggin idiot!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

And then Roach had the unmitigated audacity to gesture toward Freddi Gonzalez as if to say “what were you thinking?” No..WHY WEREN’T YOU HUSTLING WHEN WE’RE FIGHTING FOR OUR LIVES???!!!

By Eric

October 9, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this

Short memory, Carroll. LaRoche gave us 4 of our 5 runs. I could see sending him with 2 outs, but not 1. LaRoche knows that he is second only to Estrada in a snail race, and I’m sure that he figured 3rd was as far as he was going. I know the announcers got on him for not hustling, but I really think that is fast as he can go. (Oops, McCann just gave us another run.)

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

I said that AS ROach was jogging around the bases…I”m not just saying that because of the announcers! I don’t care what he did earlier THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR LACK OF EFFORT…EVER!!!!

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

Roach IS that slow! Fredi should have known that, regardless of what Sutcliff says (how may times was he waved around third?)

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

That may be why BC puled Roach. Otherwise, I can think of no reason to put Julio in there now.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

Sutcliffe knows a lot more than I do, but I was stunned when he said that it isn’t the 3rd base coach’s job to know where the runner is!!! That makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with a runner like LaRoche.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

You might be right, Carroll, about Julio being in there, but surely - - SURELY - - this is no time to punish LaRoche by bringing in a weaker defensive player. This is an elimination game!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

3 consecutive innings of wasted scoring chances. BC pulling Hudsy too early. A TERRIBLE call at 1st on what should’ve been a double play. An error on an easy grounder to furcal. Chipper once again afraid to make a legitimate effort to catch a foul pop, Farnsy’s dumbass not blowing away that Luke character and instead throwing a stupid slider to walk him. Oh sheesh! It was fun whilest it lasted.

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

That probably just about wraps it! Crappy call at first costs us.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

Oh and lest we forget, a little bloop fly by Berkman that would have been a routine fly ball in any other stadium…Houston oughtta be ashamed of that joke of a stadium.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this

Chipper’s wide throw would have been caught for an out by LaRoche because he’s a lefty. Probably would have changed the complexion of the game.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this

Definitely, Eric….but we had him out anyway…obviously the umps have been paid off here. Like the announcers said…it’s like they’re trying to be SOOOOO fine with their calls. 99/100 that would be called out even if he did come off the bag by a milimeter.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

I don’t believe that life is pre-ordained, but maybe this game was. The pen has imploded all season long, except for Farnsworth who now gives up 5 runs. Maybe it was just meant to be.

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this

Yeah-Andruw lloked like he beat the throw at first too, but no argument. I guess first base is too far from the visitor’s dugout for Bobby to hobble out.

Can’t believe he didn’t argue Ausmus HR either-couldn’t really tell from replay. You can bet TBS would have zeroed in on it.

Guess we’re done, tho.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this

Farnsworth and his bullpen cronies can rot in hell as far as I’m cocnerned. Hell, I could’ve ket them below 5 runs in an inning and 1/3! Hang ‘em high!

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this

Normal weak last gasp.

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

WHAT THE F* HAVE WE DONE TO DESERVE THIS?!!!

REEKSMA WITH THE GAME/SERIES/SEASON ON THE LINE!!!!

SHOOT COX!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

WHAT THE HELL BOBBY???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!WHY????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHERE IS MCBRIDE, THOMSON, RAMIREZ???!! THERE IS NOT TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!REITSMA IS TERRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

By mizb

October 9, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this

well what can I say…any other year, Braves up 6-1 in the 7th inning would be enough to win the game. Even Farnworth got what ails the bullpen. Better to lose now and get some bullpen help and bonafide closer for next year. Too bad, we wasted a great effort from Tim Hudson today.

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 04:27 PM | Link to this

Done done done

Any other posts about how great Cox is in postseason?

By Del Young

October 9, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

What the heck do we expect when we gime them 6 outs in the 8th !!!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this

Do you guys still wanna defend SlowRoche for his complete lack of efort earlier?!

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this

Except for the grand slam and McCann’s homer, the Braves have done nothing to deserve being in this game at all. By all rights, this team should have been in double digits as far as runs are concerned. The Astros deserve to advance to the NLCS. We can only wait for the axe to fall on our season.

By mizb

October 9, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this

I don’t blame LaRoche’s baserunning earlier. As one poster pointed out Laroche accounted for 4 of the 6 runs produced by the Braves today. It’s the pitching (specifically the bullpen) that has been a big letdown in this game and the series. I mean, c’mon if there is some level of competence with the bullpen, 6-1 lead…this game should be over by now with a Braves win.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

Carroll, you call it effort, but I call it physically disadvantaged. The man is just slow. I still blame Fredi for not understanding that and sending him with just one out. If Bobby is punishing him, then he is punishing the team. He would have made the play at first, and I would rather have seen him up with runners on 2nd and 3rd than Julio.

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

WHY THE HELL DO WE GIVE HIM A 2ND CHANCE TO TANK IT?

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this

AMAZING! 2 innings, 0 runs! That brings the postseason ERA down under 20?

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this

See why this game will drive you crazy. Our best reliever can’t hold a 5 run lead for an inning and 1/3 but reeksma…the steaming pile of dung that he is, get’s us 2 shutout innings. SImilarly, Brower has pitched very effectively in games but only after the other guys lost the games. And I considered him about the worst we had. Unreal.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 05:04 PM | Link to this

If there’s one positive here, if by some miraculopus act of god we manage to pull this out, there’s almost no way we could see Lidge tommorrow night. But that is an eternity away right now.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this

The announcers just said that if there is a game 5, Ramirez would pitch for Atlanta. Bullsheot! Houston is a primarily right-handed hitting team and Ramirez is gonna pitch instead of Thomson? That logic is part of the reason why we are doomed.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 05:11 PM | Link to this

Jerry: why wouldn’t it be Smoltz??!! This is exactly why we brought him back to the starting rotation, right? Has he goten worse?

By Eric

October 9, 2005 05:12 PM | Link to this

Berkman is gone, Lidge is gone, and we’re playing their second string. This is a game we should now win. If we can’t, we don’t deserve another try.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 05:12 PM | Link to this

This question is for the ones that think LaRoche is not to fault for jogging around the bases because he hit a grand slam. So what you guys are saying is that he did his part in one at bat and he doesn’t have to try any more in the game? You should kick your own @sses for that p** poor logic.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 05:14 PM | Link to this

Thanks Jerry! I knew someone else out there had to have some cajones.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 05:14 PM | Link to this

Carroll, Sutcliffe said that the back of Smoltz’s shoulder is blood-filled, black and blue. He said flatly that there is no way Smoltz can pitch. He didn’t say so, but I wonder if he is done for the season.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 05:17 PM | Link to this

no offense to you other guys with that remark…I’m just saying.

By A Lifer

October 9, 2005 05:17 PM | Link to this

Thompson will not start tomorrow…need him tonight. As for tomorrow…if we get there….ramirez can play well….his numbers are MUCH MUCH better at home….so, let’s just worry about tonight.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 05:17 PM | Link to this

According to ESPN, Smoltz said that he might pitch in a game 5, but Sutcliff said that his shoulder is black and blue from pitching in game 2. That means that he has a lot of bleeding from that area. I’ll not say what he can or can’t do, but if that is true, Smoltz is not likely to pitch. Thomson looked good in his 1st inning of work. Sure would have been nice to see him pitch earlier.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 05:19 PM | Link to this

Jerry and Carroll, you guys seem awfully obsessed with asses and testicles. Try using your brains and look at the reality of things.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 05:22 PM | Link to this

LOL Eric!

By mizb

October 9, 2005 05:24 PM | Link to this

No, I am not saying that Laroche should not be faulted for “jogging around the bases”. Everyone should be playing their hearts out in these games. But I don’t believe it is right to focus on that mistake. There were many other scoring opportunities for the Braves after Mccann HR where they did not capitalize. But ultimately, it is the bullpen who gave this game away.

By Eric

October 9, 2005 05:28 PM | Link to this

Exactly, mizb. But why should anything be any different?

There are no smiley emoticons, Carroll - - glad you didn’t take me too seriously.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 05:28 PM | Link to this

Nobody is concentrating on one thing. There is plenty of blame to go around for this whole team. And Eric, it says something about you to put @asses & balls together. Must be metro.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 05:44 PM | Link to this

1 for 16 with runners in scoring position. Please Houston, put us out of our misery.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 05:46 PM | Link to this

why can’t our starting pitching, relief pitching and hitting EVER be on the same page?!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 05:55 PM | Link to this

nevermind trying to resign fooky…a*****!

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 05:59 PM | Link to this

Would be nice if Chipper would lead instead of bleed.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 06:00 PM | Link to this

Thanks a lot CJ!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 06:02 PM | Link to this

As p** off as I was with SlowRoche (and still am), I think his being pulled cost us this game (or at least extended it). Not only the play at first earlier, but we miss his hot bat in the lineup right about now. Another great move by BC.

By Charles

October 9, 2005 06:03 PM | Link to this

Guys, it’s a little hard when the zone has been expanded six inches. Neither of those called strikes to Chipper were in the zone. But, it is what it is.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:04 PM | Link to this

Braves hiters have the distinction of making some of the most unknown relievers known. You would think that Quall and Wheeler are great pitchers by how Atlanta flails about. This has been an embarrassment.

By Charles

October 9, 2005 06:05 PM | Link to this

Carroll, by the way, you’re a raving lunatic. When this game is over, go back and look at your posts over the last 4 hours. Worked in a post office lately? If so, stay away from the machine guns.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:07 PM | Link to this

Leadoff walk to Biggio. I think this is where it will end. Stay tuned

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:08 PM | Link to this

In Carroll’s defense, rooting for this team can make you a raving lunatic.

By Charles

October 9, 2005 06:11 PM | Link to this

Does this team make you call everyone on the team an a*******hole, idiot and telling them they s#ck just because they don’t get a hit? Nice fan. The team did it’s job today, scored 6 runs and should have won if not for some heroics by the Astros. Get a freaking grip, people.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:13 PM | Link to this

How did Franco dig that out?

By Eric

October 9, 2005 06:15 PM | Link to this

Good for you, Charles. That’s basically what I wanted to say, but I figured I’d be called gay again. Completely irrational bathroom language by 12-year-olds.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:17 PM | Link to this

Yeah, the team has done a great job today. 1 for 16 with runners in scoring position is great, right? Let me teach you about what great means. Great means that you score 1 more run than your opponent. At this time, Atlanta has not done that. Now, put your dunce cap on and sit in the corner and don’t say another word.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 06:18 PM | Link to this

This umpire has lost his mind!

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:19 PM | Link to this

I would have thrown Franco out after that tantrum. Er, btw way Eric…you’re gay! :-)

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 06:27 PM | Link to this

Wow-I think thats more scoreless innings than Brower has thrown over the course of the entire year!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 06:28 PM | Link to this

Man! Jim Brower is my new heroe! Way to go man! I take back everything I said about you…even if you f— it up next inning!

By Charles

October 9, 2005 06:31 PM | Link to this

I take it back, Jerry. Keep the machine gun away from you. Or maybe give it to both of you and see you gets who first. Or, maybe we’ll get lucky and it will be simultaneous fire. By the way, who said the team did “great” today? Go back and read, you idiot.

By Charles

October 9, 2005 06:34 PM | Link to this

By the way, if the Braves are such a@@holes and they suck, what are the Astros? They are playing this game, too, and they have 9 hits in 17 innings. What does that make them? Like I said, get a grip. You sound like a moron.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:36 PM | Link to this

1 for 17

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 06:37 PM | Link to this

Our 1-3 have been about as worthless as you could possibly be. How on earth did we even get into the playoffs?!

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 06:38 PM | Link to this

Could Giles be any more worthless in this series?

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:41 PM | Link to this

Okay Charlie, I stand corrected. I thought you said great, but in actuality you said that the Braves did their job today. Now, do you still believe that the team did it job today with going 1 for 17 with runners in scoring position? If you do, then I’ll be more than happy to take that machine gun of yours and put you outta your misery. Now, put that dunce cap back on and sit your punk @ss down in the corner and suck you thumb!

By Charles

October 9, 2005 06:43 PM | Link to this

Again, the Astros are 9 for 55 today. The Braves have 13 hits. What is your point? Pick up a bat and go to that next tryout camp. They sure need you. By the way, your apology is accepted. I hope you guys go back and read your posts tomorrow.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 06:44 PM | Link to this

ROFLMFAO JERRY!! That was awesome!

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 06:45 PM | Link to this

I have to thank all you guys for helping to give me a little comic relief in this very stressful time.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:47 PM | Link to this

The point Charlie is that it makes no difference how many hits you get if you can’t get the hit that matters. An intelligent person such as yourself ought to be able to figure that out. Geez, did you even finish grade school?

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:50 PM | Link to this

There shouldn’t be any stress left for us. I doubt that any of us really expects the Braves to win this game any more.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 06:50 PM | Link to this

We’ve gone from games 1 and 3 where everything that could go wrong DID go wrong, to this game where everything you expect to go wrong has gone right and everything you expect to go right has flopped.

Damn why does Chipper even take a bat with him to the plate…he don’t need it. And why are we taking perfect pitches every time?!

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 06:56 PM | Link to this

That Clemens is hell on wheels.

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 07:03 PM | Link to this

Who the hell is Chris Burke? Martha’s brother?

By Charles

October 9, 2005 07:04 PM | Link to this

One thankful thing about that HR - Carroll and Jerry can shut the hell up now.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 07:05 PM | Link to this

And that, my friends, is it for another year of Braves baseball. My hope is that some of our players reflect a lot on what just happened and how they couldn’t muster anything close to a response to their critics. Time to go to work Schuerholz. Earn your money. There’s a lot to do.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 07:07 PM | Link to this

Bye Charles! You were non-existant to us before now and you’ll be the same tomorrow.

By James Crennan

October 9, 2005 07:07 PM | Link to this

Amen to that, Charles.

By Charles

October 9, 2005 07:09 PM | Link to this

See ya, Jerky. Thank God the post office is closed tomorrow.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 07:12 PM | Link to this

James, you had nothing to contribute before, so don’t bother us now.

By Marc Spoor

October 9, 2005 07:16 PM | Link to this

I am sick of this team. I think they need to start over. No heart. WHat a joke. Can’t keep a 5 run lead in the eith inning. Farnsworth is the same worthless piece of garbage everyone says he is. Just cause you can throw 99 deosn’t mean s**t. He gave up a homerun to the worst hitter in the park, congrats. And LaRoach, only LaRoach could have such a huge hit and then negate it by loafing around the bases to be thrown out at the plate, really could have used that run.

BC needs to go, heck maybe JS should go, we need to start over, get some power arms in the rotation and the bullpen. We need some hitters with some balls and heart. I am sick of collecting division titles, the country laughs at us. All you positive humps can say look what an amazing accomplishment, BS does anyone really realize the significance of getting to the post season 14 times, how hard that is. I say that it is harder to loose 13 years out of 14 than to make it 14 years in a row. We make the Buffalo Bills look like winners. We are now officially a joke, every friend I have has called to give me s**t. The freakin Marlins have more World Series titles than we do.

It is time for some changes, the Braves need to build for the playoffs not for the regular season. I am disgusted.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 9, 2005 07:17 PM | Link to this

That’s it for me kiddos. I’ve gotta go do something constructive. These posts really have deteriorated past the point of usefulness. Thanks go to everyone who have made this a good place to talk about the Braves. I’ll be back after the World Series and see what’s up at that time.

By Marc Spoor

October 9, 2005 07:20 PM | Link to this

Good riddance, Jerry. I say your posts were useless. This is a place for a fan to say what is on their minds, to vent frustrations. If you aren’t frustrated and incapable of giving criticism, then don’t come back. News flash for you we lost again, what is there to be positive about.

By Carroll

October 9, 2005 07:25 PM | Link to this

Easy Marc. Jerry’s on our side. HE’s referring to the homers who constantly come on here and pretend to be different people and say the same old garbage.

But if anything good can come from this treachery, maybe this was the last straw for LaRoche with the Braves. Hopefully he p** them off so badly with his idiocy that he will be cast off. Grand slam notwithstanding, I am over him….his lifeless personality, non-hustling, etc. is a tired act.

I am almost to the point where I don’t want them to re-sign Fooky either. HE has turned into as big a playoff flop as any. He had one good month or 6 weeks this year and completely sucked otherwise. Let him go and use WB at SS. I’m over Gilys too. If anyone wants him this offseason (they way Oakland wanted him last year in the Hudson deal) SEND HIM AWAY and let Orrsy take 2b. I’m also in agreement that I want C to go away into the front ofice….he obviously has nothing left to offer this franchise.

Before you all go off on your usual tantrums…NO I DON’T CARE IF WE MISS THE PLAYOFFS next year, the next five years or for the rest of my life. I just don’t wanna see this embarrasment ever ever again.

Also let Farnsy go. Today,combined with two years ago wtih the Cubs was all I needed to see. That boy just can’t put it all together. I think Devine will make a fine closer or Boyer. SPread th emoney out and get us 3 or 4 good middle relievers.

By BravosFan

October 9, 2005 07:42 PM | Link to this

Orr over Giles? Marte over Chipper? Betemit over Furcal? Mickey Mouse over LaRoche?

I don’t know what’s more disappointing, that the Braves lost or that Atlanta has the dumbest baseball fans in America. You people are idiots.

Yes we need changes (mostly in the bullpen), but I think if some of you were running the team you’d trade Andruw and Smoltz for a bag of hammers.

There was ONE REASON (well, two) why we lost all three games to the Astros - our crappy bullpen and the fact that they’re BETTER THAN US!

By Brian

October 9, 2005 07:43 PM | Link to this

Is it really too much to ask for LaDouche to sprint around the bases in the playoffs? Unbelievable. If you don’t care enough to hustle in October you shouldn’t be playing. What an embarrassment.

By jeff

October 9, 2005 08:05 PM | Link to this

It never really mattered that the braves gave away a tying hr with 2 out in the 9th and the bullpen finally came through for almost 9 innings. The team had a great thing going for it until Turner gave away his ownership and the corporation went cheap. We were running on fumes for most of the year and still won the division. Its a disgrace that the behind the scenes scouts who know what the hell they are doing can’t augment the teams basic core because the damn corporation is tellin Scheurholtz and Cox that they have got to work with the cheapo budget that they are allowed to have and then expect these two guys to perform miracles.Imagine if we would have still had Shefield, Lopez and Maddox; do you think we would have lost to the Astros the last 2 years. Next year we will probably lose Furcal and still be expected to win the division. Its a f*** disgrace.

By Rodger

October 9, 2005 10:18 PM | Link to this

I think we could bash anyone on the team right now, but lets think about it. Cox is the only manager in baseball who could have even gotten this bunch to the playoffs-it’s just unfortunate he sux so bad once there. Besides his “questionable” decisions, he didn’t seem to have the same rah-rah from the dugout he has all year long (too busy thinking of ways to lose?)

The bullpen is ABYSMAL-can’t count on anyone.

Giles, I love him but he killed us-couldn’t hit, kept swinging for the fences, couldn’t get down the sac, defense was lame. Can Orr handle the job? Only time will tell, but we may need to find out. Furcal-too little, too late. Bye!

By Laurie

October 9, 2005 11:30 PM | Link to this

Okay, I am a mother of two young girls but I’ve been a fan of the Braves since my dad took me to games when I was a little girl. Even this middle-aged mother knows that when a pitcher gets in a rhythm you need to step out a few times to get him off the rhythm. Even a middle-aged mother knows that when a pitcher is having trouble throwing strikes you need to actually take a couple of pitches until he throws a strike. I think my eight-year-old nephew could strike out Chipper and Giles. I know a lot of you get riled about this, but I think Chipper needs to go. He’s a legend in his own mind. Trade him for good pitchers and build with the younger guys. Okay, just needed to vent. Thanks. Now I can go finish the dishes.

By Jerry Holcombe

October 10, 2005 03:38 AM | Link to this

Well, I guess I couldn’t stay away as long as I should’ve. As for you Marc, you should take some drugs and calm down. I could care less if you b*** about the Braves losing again in the post season. If that will make you feel better in the morning, then go fer it. Me, it doesn’t bother me in the least that they lost again because they weren’t the better team, the Astros were. With our bullpen and inconsistant offense, we were fortunate to win the division and should be happy about that. What does concern me is that Bobby Cox made excuses for LaRoche about being thrown out at home. He said that LaRoche simply gave out on his way home and that he didn’t have anything left to give. Now, that is the weakest, lamest excuse that I’ve ever heard. I’m almost 49 years old and I can play the entire 18 innings at catcher and still run LaRoche’s @ss off the field and I’m not a little guy. Bobby, making that statement, just cost him some of the respect that I had for him. There is absolutely no excuse for any baseball player to not give 100% effort during a ballgame. I don’t give a rat’s @ss if that ballplayer just got his legs shot off by a crazed fan in the stands. He should still move his bloody stumps around the bases like his life depends on it. Millions of bucks these guys make and they are the biggest wussies I’ve ever seen. I’d love to take them into a fire with me just to hear them squeal like the b*** they are. Well, I’m on my way to the station. You guys take it easy.

By Rodger

October 10, 2005 08:20 AM | Link to this

Jerry, you should have stayed away, but you keep moving those bloody little stumps across the keyboard!

By Brave Attic

October 10, 2005 08:23 AM | Link to this

Once again the true Braves fans come through. Slamming a team that was predicted to be third in their in the Division. But still managing to be FIRST, and not happy about that. Knowing that we have a much Lower Operating Budget than the Mets and Phillies, but still manage to win it for the 14th time. Now how will all of you complainers feel when BC and JS get tired of hearing your complaints or not renew thier contracts. Then we are back to prior to 1990. We had alot of winners then did’nt we. So shut the HELL UP and enjoy that the Braves were in the playoffs again. Besides 14 and 1 is better than none or would you really be happy with none.

By braves fan

October 10, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

Jerry you mistake skill levels for heart.Any one of the Braves could be a fireman if so needed.They don’t need it.You can’t be a ballplayer because you don’t have the skill,no matter how much mouth or heart you imagine for your self.Don’t trot out the tired B.S. about the heroism of the firemen and policemen.The free market determines what salaries are applicable to skills.That’s why you make what you do and why MLB players make what they do.

By braves fan

October 10, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

Jerry a fireman is like any other laymen an average Joe doing an average job for average pay.

By david

October 10, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

Eric poeple like you make these blogs enjoyable. People like Carroll are what make a thoughtfull blog with some insight and intelligence hard to operate.

By david

October 10, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

Eric and others maybe we can let Monday pass and get some info from the media for various reasons that decisions were made and then have a thoughtfull intelligent discussion on the Braves.Every intelligent thoughtfull fan is welcome.Criticisms and thought provoking debate are encouraged.Carroll like rants that show absolutely no thought process and the shocking lack of knowledge about baseball,and the Carroll type shoot from the hip while your head is located inside your a*-please don’t waste your time or ours with your participation.

By Brian

October 10, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

Jerry, you are absolutely right about LaDouche. No matter how bad the Braves are in the playoffs, I don’t think it’s too much to ask for them to at least run hard. There is no excuse. I am much more okay with chokers than with players who don’t care. LaDouche must go!!!! Figure out a way to get Todd Helton, who will be a clutch World Series player for someone soon…why not us?

By chris deighan

October 10, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

Personally, I like LaRoche. I think he displays a certain non-chalance befitting a big-league first baseman. I don’t excuse his baserunning, but I will say there is little reason to think anyone is going to score from first on a double into left field in that poor excuse of a ball yard. LaRoche went into second — and around it — with that preconceived notion. A mistake, no doubt.

What hurts, is that we see these kinds of mistakes every year. The Braves have enough veteran “leadership” and coaching to understand you never take anything for granted in the playoffs. A ground out in April easily becomes a two-base error in October.

It shocks me, because I think the carelessness shows a terrible lack of respect for the game. If BC does nothing else, I would think he would teach that respect.

By Marc Spoor

October 10, 2005 04:27 PM | Link to this

Jerry,

I apologize for being so harsh. I was frustrated and felt I was being attacked. I just root so hard, and spend time watching each game. When every year we have to watch some other team go for the World Series, it is crushing. As for the Braves it is tough for me to say the Astros were better. They had a weak lineup, injuries, and bullpen problems throughout the year. They started 15 and 30. What they have is heart and 3 strong starters. We had three strong starters as well. What the Braves lacked was heart. Why are we Braves fans always making excuses. Are you telling me 13 out of 14 times we just ran into better teams. Do you really think that the Astros are that much better. We even had home field advantage. I think the problem lies with complacency. I think the veterans always feel they have next year, that JS and BC will always make the moves to get them the division. My question is who is going to win the World Series when you get there, that is the question the Braves can’t seem to answer. I pose the question again, is it harder to win 14 straight division titles or not win the world series 13 out of 14 times? I think that is just as remarkable. I will always love the Braves because of Dale Murphy, and I am excited to see these kids grow into their own. I hope this off season JS and BC sit down and figure out what moves they can make to ensure not only that we win the division, but that we win the World Series. We need some power arms, and grind it out hitters.

I look forward to blogging with you Jerry, and anyone else. Let’s look to the future.

GO Braves!

By Steve

October 11, 2005 12:39 AM | Link to this

I have read your forums and as an Astros fan I have to say you guys are hard on Chipper. We all feared him. Having Chipper and Andruw just churned our stomachs. We hated to see them. Chipper drilled Billy Wagner years ago and it sticks. He can change the game with one swing. Furcal has one of the best arms out there, and he is quick. I don’t think the rookies really put much out there in the last 2 games. Hudson was great, Smoltz is vintage. Hampton was injured. Bobby Cox managed well, look at how consistent the line-up was the whole game. your pinch hitters only hit in the 9 spot. Our line-up was in shambles. Cox is a great manager, you have to see it from the outside to really see how great he is. He is a rare manager. I don’t think the blame should be on him. He did the best he could with what he had. You guys should put more money into your team and make sure you keep andruw jones so he doesnt go to yankees. Good series.

By Dave

October 11, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

POINT ONE: I cannot believe ANYONE wants to get rid of Chipper Jones. TRY replacing a good fielding third baseman who hit .300, hit 20 HRs and drove in over 70 runs (even though he missed over 50 games)! If he stays healthy in 2006, this man could have the season Andruw Jones had in 2005 while hitting .320 to boot! And who knows how well Andruw is going to hit now that he is listening to Terry Pendleton!

POINT TWO: Despite the bullpen problems this year, the Braves are blessed with a bevy of great, young pitchers. Even with Mike Hampton missing next year and Dan Kolb (for sure), John Thompson (maybe) and Kyle Farnsworth (maybe) being shown the door, Leo has plenty to work with next year. I HOPE Smoltzie can start again next year, but given his breakdown at the end of this year, he may need to resume the closer role. With Hudson, Davies, Ramirez, Sosa and several candidates in the minors available, the starting pitching is looking good even without Smoltzie.

POINT THREE: Having read the story this morning (a day late) about LaRoche being so ill and dehydrated that he nearly collapsed, I take back my harsh criticism about him “dogging it” when running the bases and getting thrown out at the plate. He gave it his best shot; that’s all we can ask. One must ask, however, WHY he was playing in a game with a five-run lead if he was so ill??

POINT FOUR: While the Braves have adequate replacements for Furcal, his defense, strong arm, speed and leadoff hitting make this team go. He’s worth the $40M/five year contract that other teams (the Cubs, Mets and Red Sox come to mind) will be willing to pay. Will the Braves be willing to pay the piper? Further, what happens when Giles qualifies for free agency a few years from now?

LAST POINT: The rookies have gotten a taste of playoff baseball. They would have liked it to end better, but the Braves have a bright future with the mix of veterans and young players currently in the lineup. Next year will be LOTS of fun!

By david

October 11, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this

Dave, to give an opinion on your point 4.The Braves have to try every thing in their power to resign Furcal(bad playoff series aside)even if that includes moving Giles to free up payroll.I hope that’s not necessary.Giles skills are replaceable at a comprable level for less salary.Betemit while a fine player and IMO should have been more frequently used this season,would be better suited for 3rd base on a daily basis.The Braves also do not have a lead-off hitter anywhere in their system.I personally would like to see the Braves give some thought to making Betemit a super-sub.He can already play 3rd,short,and second,maybe the Braves could encourage him to take a shot at learning the corner outfield spots and possibly even 1st base.With injuries and BC’s penchant for platooning if he could add versatility to his skills he would be a very solid player for the Braves.A switch-hitter that could play multiple positions would be very beneficial to the Braves not to mention the chance for added AB’s for the player.

By Tommy

October 11, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this

I wasn’t to disapointed in the braves because they got beat by a better ballclub this year. We will be ok for a few years to come, just don’t panic like the garbage hawks. We have a quality ball club for years to come, its better than be the phillies and the mets that hardly ever make it to postseason. But, the heartbreak will end eventually in the post season, just law of averages in sports. Lets get some quality free agents to shore up some of those hole and try agian next year, because houston might not make it next year and we will.

By ByeByeChipper

October 11, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this

Chipper Jones HAS GOT TO GO. His terrible attitude and lack of any real effort is exactly what the rookies do not need to see. He mailed in the last 3 or 4 at bats Sunday and admitted after the game he was thinking about watching Sunday Night Football on ESPN going into the eighth inning. He has no focus and NO HEART. Don’t let him ruin the great rookies that are going to be the Braves foundation for years to come.

By Carroll

October 12, 2005 07:34 PM | Link to this

David: I think Langy might make a decent leadoff man.

By david

October 13, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

Carroll,as far as working a pitcher Langy might do,but there is no stolen base abilities with Langy,and since Giles can’t bunt that means that the Braves would have to string multiple hits together to score.I hate to see the Braves needing those type of innings to score on a consistent basis.On the subject of batting order and Furcal,if the Braves had a prototype number 2 hitter,one that would work counts and give Furcal more chances to steal the Braves offense would be more effective.

By Carroll

October 13, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

Furcal has all the physical tools, he lacks the tools between the ears to ever be a consistently potent leadoff man. Case in point, the playoffs (every year).

By david

October 13, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

Carroll, as usual you say the first thing that comes to mind.I’m not going to waste time posting his stats(postseason included)you can find them if you want to be objective.You don’t have to look to far to disprove your thoughts though.If you want rid of Furcal,that’s fine just state that you do not like the player and that you want a lesser talent in the position so you can feel better personally.The fact remains that if he leaves ,the Braves will have to replace him at both SS and leadoff.Betemit MAY be able to replace him at short but it will be both a defensive and offensive downgrade.Furcal gives the Braves both a leadoff hitter and SS.Betemit is a 6,7, or 8 hitter.Who ? bats leadoff Giles,Langy,Orr can’t play SS.Carroll,your entitled to your opinion,but tell us who plays SS? and who bats leadoff ?It’s easy to say get rid of someone but offer realistic solutions.

By Carroll

October 15, 2005 10:22 AM | Link to this

I guess I was wrong. After all, without Fooky and his incredible leadoff abilities and defensive abilities, we never could have flopped in the first round of the playoffs every stinkin year he has played for the Braves.

I suppose that one year (2001) that he wasn’t playing and we didn’t have a “prototypical leadoff man”, it was just a fluke that we actually escaped the first round with a series sweep that year.

Nope, without fookie, I suppose we’d be fooked, right?! Get your head out of the kool aid bowl and get a clue!

By Carroll

October 15, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

In fact, if memory serves, we actually lacked the “prototypical leadoff man� in 91, 95, 96, and 99. How did those seasons work out for us? I don’t remember too well.

But I do remember that we DID have the “prototypical leadoff man� in 97 (massive flop against the Marlins, 2000 (first time losing in the div. series), and 2002-present. Hhhhhmmmm…perhaps that prototypical leadoff man just equates to an easy out in the playoffs? It sure hasn’t been all that helpful has it?

Besides, EVERYONE was clammering for Fooky’s head mid-season when he wasn’t performing….EVERYONE!! Short memory?

By Tim

October 16, 2005 01:45 AM | Link to this

Just for the record; Lou Pinilla won 2939 games and lost 1519 in 19 year career. Bobby Cox has 2092 wins and 1602 lost in 24 year career. Don’t give me that bit about Lou not being a winner-1 WS an 929 wins more than BC and 81 less loses. You can have your 1-14 record BC, that just proves you can’t win when it counts.

By Carroll

October 16, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Tim! God job!

By braves fan

October 17, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

Carroll,you are an idiot!I never called for Furcal’s head.I’ve steadfastly maintained that the Braves need to resign him even when he was struggling at mid-season.It would have cost them less.I even said to move Giles if that’s what it took to retain Furcal.Once again the best you have offered is Langy as leadoff and still no mention of who plays SS.All you can do is blindly criticize and offer no solutions.

By david

October 17, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

braves fan stated it eloquently,Carroll you were too busy calling for Andruw Jones to be shipped out at mid-season.And calling for the return of Gabe White to the pen.That says all anyone needs to know about your baseball acumen.It’s non-existent!

By Tim

October 18, 2005 08:11 PM | Link to this

John Schuerholz, remember the name B.J.Ryan as you start to build a bullpen. If Mazzone goes to the yankees, Greg Walker pitching coach for the White Sox [from Douglas,Ga.] would be great. Thanks to the players for a great year.