Mark Bradley

By JimK

November 14, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

Well said, Mark. Agree 100%

By Tim

November 14, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

I whole heartly agree. The Braves forgot what made him good in the 90s and that was home grown players. Instead the last 5 years or so they went out and traded players like a Adam Wainwright or Matt Harrison that turned into good big league starters just to get band aids at the major league level.

Now they are paying the price. As a fan it sucks but I have been saying hold onto our young players and get ready for 2010 or 2011.

By Ron Roberts

November 14, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Agreed.

By Brian

November 14, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

Bradley- That’s all good but you know something, we’re a little tired( yes, it’s only been 3 years), of being disappointed and frustrated with injuries, aging pitchers and guys that underachieve with poor fundamentals! Wren did the right thing by not giving in but if he doesn’t get a TRUE ace, then you will be a happy boy with the Braves being just an average team for awhile.

By Bama

November 14, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

Sometimes the best deal is the one you don’t make. Alot of times I’ve waited to long on a deal etc. and when I did decide to pull the trigger it was to late. But everytime a better deal came along.

Agree with Wren, Padras were asking to much and playing the Braves. Now FW can get on with the FA and build this team the right way. Thanks Mark for Blog.

By Kenneth Simpson

November 14, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

I am glad Wren pulled the trigger on that trade. Escobar is the best shortstop the braves have had in a long time and that includes Furcal who has back problems now and if they had traded Escobar he may have been in the picture. He jumped ship to play for the Dodgers and let him stay off our ship and sink somewhere else. The braves need to keep the good players in the farm system and not empty it like they did in the 12 month rental for Tex. Now look what they have in return. That trade still stinks like the one when Kenny Lofton was a rental and JD Drew rental. Look at the 2 good pitchers who they gave away for JD for a rental player. Let the kids develop one more year if needed and then see what they can do. I can’t wait to see the duo of Hanson and Flowers. Please keep them together and not give either of them away. This kid Heyward sounds awsome too. Let the kids play and maybe they can turn this franchise around. I feel Peavy has some arm trouble and if he don’t he will if the braves get him. All the braves pitchers develop arm trouble but we don’t need baggage to begin with. Towers knows something we don’t know so watch out. Let someone else empty their farm for him.

By Mark Bradley

November 14, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

Four agreements out of five — obviously I’ve done something wrong.

Kidding. (And thanks, folks.)

By lawton

November 14, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

AGREED. The Braves farm system is more important than Peavy. I didnt like the Renteria trade, but now its looks good. Wren seems to know what he is doing after all. The only thing i didnt like was their wanting to RESIGN Mike Hampton. Oh I wish they could part with him for some minor league pitching prospects.

By Chop Chop

November 14, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Hell, what if Tommy Hanson’s arm falls apart? What if he doesn’t live up to the hype? That’s the other side of this argument. Let’s hope Tommy Hanson validates Wren’s faith in him.

By RDub

November 14, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

AGREED, but lets go out and get Burnett, or any #1 pitcher for that fact. What power outfield bats are we looking at? DOB any input?

By NCBravesFan

November 14, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

It seems to me things have to operate on two tracks if you’re Wren - you try to get the best players in the offseason via free agency and trades that you can, but you also preserve key pieces of the farm system at all costs.

Our biggest problem with trades is noted by Mark B. above, and when it comes to the FA route - we need pitching - as do the Yankees and a lot of other teams with money to spend.

This process is not going to be easy. If Wren rolls snake eyes this winter, the Braves will get back into the division title chase in 2009 and beyond. But it would seem the more likely outcome, short of trading the farm, is that we are positioning for 2010-2011 or so.

By country boy

November 14, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

One more AGREED Mark. Do you belittle yourself and read Dave O’Brien - the third tier beat writer? Had he been our GM I think he would have traded Yunel, McCann and Jair to get Peavy judging from his blind and mindless blogs. Glad you mentioned Peavy’s arm too. I think it is possible Towers and Padres are less than honest about that pitching arm.

By BE#

November 14, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

We’ve been burned on a trade for a big name pitcher before (see Mike Hampton). Glad Hampton finished strong this year but let’s give our own guy a shot! Nice analysis Mark!

By Steph

November 14, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

I wanted to pull out. The Pads are setting themselves up for the same thing Atlanta did when Millwood had to be traded. They got nothing for a starting pitcher. One player. Just wait till we shore up our team and then Peavy takes a good look. The Pads have to dump him and now we are in the buyers seat. If they come back to the braves I would offer Reyes and thats it.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 14, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

Ditto that. You said it all Mark. Now, Lets just hope that Yunel Escobar doesn’t mysteriously end up being traded anyway.

Or that Ruben Amaro Jr. and the Phillies don’t get frisky and decide that Peavy is worth chasing.

By kirknga

November 14, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

I agree as well. But I also am not yet sold on the idea that Peavy will yet be a Brave. I would also add that Liberty Media is not a “mid-level” conglomerate and could afford to expand the Braves’ payroll if they so desired.

The Braves’ need for improved starting pitching did not go away today. The Padres apparently as of yet do not have a team that has met their demands.

Until Peavy goes to some other team, or the pieces of the Peavy trade are used to acquire some other player, I believe the matter is still an open one.

By Phillip

November 14, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren did 100% the right thing in pulling the plug on this trade. As great as Peavy is, pitchers just have a tendency of breaking down and especially power pitchers like Peavy. Maybe I am overvaluing Yunel Escobar but he is a very, very nice shortstop and potential all-star. How many teams have a guy like Escobar at shortstop who is a gold glove that can hit for average and power? Not many!!! I don’t know how good Gorkys Hernandez is but I know we have “garbage” for outfield at the major league level. On top of that, the Padres wanted Tommy Hanson - our best pitching prospect? I figure Hanson has about 50/50 shot or better of being a Peavy - so we give Pads an all-star shortstop potenital starting centerfielder AND our best pitching prospect? Uh-uhh- NO!

As you brilliantly stated Mark, this is not “your Daddy’s Braves” - we are not one move from a World Series anymore and we are in “rebuilding mode” - you don’t “tear down the farm system” in a deal like this in rebuilding mode.

Good move staying put Wren…….I would not be suprised if Padres GM sleeps on this and lowers his requirement from Braves though - from what I understand, Padres said they are not bringing Peavy back and the only other offer was Cubs which was not as good as our offer……

greedy bastage!

By DurhamBravesFan

November 14, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

Here here. The more names that were added every day to the list to get Peavy, the more this trade really looked irresponsibly dangerous. Major kudos to Frankie Boy for saying “nah” to the Padres. While Peavy is a great pitcher - he is only ONE man, and a man with an arm that is not all that healthy of late. Way to go Braves - I have a feeling this was a great non-move.

Oh, and War Eagle.

By Nelson

November 14, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Thanks God!!! Yunel Escobar is still a Brave! I Agree keep the young players they are the future!!

By Jake

November 14, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop

What if his arm falls apart? It’s easier to fix a young arm than an older one, see Smoltz. What if Hanson doesn’t live up to the hype? What if Peavy doesn’t? See Tim Hudson. All trades are risk. There will always be what ifs but Wren did the right thing by not giving up too much for a guy that can only pitch once every five days and will never have what Hanson has on his side and thats youth. Youth can kill you sometimes but it can also be that breath of fresh air. I mean if were playing what ifs, what if Charlie Morton or Jojo Reyes turned out to be that ace and Hanson a bust? What if?

By Nocturnal Owl

November 14, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

OH NO! no DOB blog ? since the blog crashed anyone here? No peavy and no blog=:(

By Chipper'sJonze

November 14, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

This may be the first time I’ve read an AJC reporter say that not pulling off this trade may actually be a good thing. No offense to DOB, but if San Diego can teach us anything, it’s that you can still lose a lot of games with “one of the few legitimate aces.” Even Peavy said he was not interested in joining a significantly weakened team, as the Braves certainly would have been had the deal gone through, both now and in the near future.

By oasisbraves

November 14, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

He said…if the Braves pitchers were any good, how did they manage to lose 90 games? Is Bradley BLIND?

INJURIES!!!!!!

Name a team that had as many people go down as the 2008 Braves.

By kirkinga

November 14, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

*Nocturnal Owl *

Well we all knew the crash was coming. I wonder if Mark will come out and entertain us until a new Braves/MIB Blog is born?

By Ken

November 14, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Honestly, this has nothing to do with Frank Wren being savvy, it had more to do with the sloth of the Padres front office. In my opinion, Jake Peavy will still be an Atlanta Brave. The Padres will play the field for another week or so and they will call Wren back and the deal will get done. Brent Lillibridge looks like he is ready to assume the starting shortshop duties and Charlie Morton is not one of the young pitchers that the Braves will miss.

By kirkinga

November 14, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Ken you could be right. We should all recall how the Yankees “withdrew” from the Santana negotiations on more than one occasion last Winter.

By Heath

November 14, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Also agree… While getting Peavy would have been nice, his home/road splits and his potential injury problems don’t warrant a plethera of young Braves. I also wouldn’t want to create a hole a SS to get a guy who could very well end up on the DL… I think there are other avenues of approach out there for Wren.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 14, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Lol Kirknga…Mark where are you? It’s your time to shine!

Ken you got that right. We should focus other places but Peavy not 100% done, Wren has let everyone know he will not be stepped on. You call us if you want the deal that I offered.

By Brian

November 14, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Mark, any truth to the Braves making offers today to CC, Dempster and AJ?

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 14, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Brian…What? Throwing a curveball on mark? LOL

By Mark Bradley

November 14, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Actually, I’m at the Thrashers game. They’re leading 3-1 in the third, you should know.

And you’re probably right: These negotiations could well re-open down the line. But I think Frank Wren has drawn his line in the figurative San Diego sand.

By Mark Bradley

November 14, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Brian, I don’t know about the offers. But I’d be stunned if the Braves believe they have a chance at Sabathia. The other two, sure. But not Sabathia.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 14, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Mark Bradley speaking of hockey, Can you believe Barry Melrose got fired? only 16 games,wow

By Brian

November 14, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Noc, someone created a thread over at scout.com stating that ESPN was repoting those three offers.

By Couch Tater

November 14, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Nocturnal Owl, Kirkinga

Dave’s been writing this Peavy novel since October 6, now Mr. Bradley gets the ending. lol.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 14, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Mark, Where is DOB?

By jp

November 14, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

I don’t know why everyone loves Peavy. He went 10-11 last year. Ya he had a 2.85 ERA but that was in the most pitcher friendly stadium in the NL. He just won’t put up those ERA numbers here.

Now he would have been worth a couple of prospects and a position player but not the top prospects and a possible all-star position player. Peavy is not Johan Santana and not even Mark Teixeira.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 14, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Brian ESPN is reporting Yankees offering Record contract to CC. No way that would happen!!! I’m ready for some action since FA started!!

By Mark Bradley

November 14, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

I don’t know where Dave is. Sorry. But I’m happy to report that esteemed colleague Mike Knobler is sitting right beside me.

About Barry Melrose: How bad can you be to get fired after 16 games?

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 14, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Couch Tater hey buddy! DOB wrote that Wren report and called it a weekend!

By Braveheart

November 14, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

I don’t know why everyone loves Peavy

Wasn’t love. ‘Twas lust.

By kirkinga

November 14, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Couch Tater, true. If I had to guess I would say DOB was squarely for the trade. To be fair he did say that the concerns about Peavy’s health were legit and shouldn’t be glossed over.

I just hope this Hanson kid can live up to the hype. It still feels like Charlie Morton a year ago to me.

Don’t know if this is the end of the trade story, perhaps just a chapter, but we’ve got alot of offseason to go.

By Braveheart

November 14, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

I just hope this Hanson kid can live up to the hype.

Yeah, if Hanson sucks and Peavy goes and wins a few more Cy Youngs for some other team, Johnny Cash’s father will keep telling Hanson that “the Devil took the wrong son”, er, chose the wrong pitcher.

By BRAVE FAN IN PA

November 14, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

I think Wren is smart enough to see what keeping the boys in the farm system can do. I’ve lived in Pa now for about 11 years and the Phillies finally have a Chammpionship with a major portion of Farm boys- It will never take away from me being a Braves fan. Hammels,Utley,Rollins,Howard,Werth,Burrel.For years they were dishing the boys from the farm and now realized just how important to keep young talent.

On that note I said I would love to see the Braves go after Pat the Bat- The guy puts up solid numbers every year-32 years old-I think he still has some solid years left in the tank! What does anyone else think?

By Harry

November 14, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Mark: column after column you display your ignorance. I assume you’re a nice guy, but come on, your knowledge is pathetic. Exhibit A: Charlie Morton was not the centerpiece of this deal. You say that Yunel was “sweetener.” Exact opposite, my friend. B: I don’t follow your logic of the McGriff trade. What about the franchise in the early 90’s allowed them to “raid” other franchises for lesser talent in return? By saying the Braves aren’t rich anymore, you assert that they can’t make the deals of latter days. Mark, this deal wasn’t about $$$. This was about who we were willing to give up. Had you done your research, you would know that the Braves’ farm is considered to be rather flush with talent; certainly in the top 25% of MLB clubs. Bottom line is the AJC has never held is writers responsible for their content (see T. Moore). Thank God for DOB; have a good weekend in Kansas.

By Couch Tater

November 14, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

From: Let the Train Blow the Whistle by Johnny Cash.(Dedicated to Kevin Towers)

I don’t want no aggravation

When my train has left the station

If your there or not,

I may not even know.

Have a round and remember

Things we did that weren’t so tender

Let the train blow the whistle when I go.

By Mark Bradley

November 14, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Thrashers won, by the way.

And Harry, you know all the particulars of the proposed deal, do you? Sitting in the room with Frank Wren, were you?

And here’s one thing I do know about the Braves’ farm system: It’s five men lighter than it would have been had they not traded for Teixeira.

Headed home now. Anyone want anything from Taco Bell?

By Flustered Fan

November 14, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Wren did good by not caving in. Remember the Len Barker trade? Sounds like we avoided one like that…

By themarksmith

November 14, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

To be fair, Hanson is much more of sure thing than Morton, for what that’s worth. Morton was a reliever for most of the past two or three seasons before this last one. Hanson has always been a strong starting pitcher who has moved through the system well.

As for the Peavy trade, I was uncomfortable with adding Escobar, but Hernandez and Morton were not turn-offs for me. We have CF’s and Morton doesn’t look like the next ace (maybe a 4 or 5 guy). You make trades from strengths. We have a strength in CF, so moving one wouldn’t be the end of the world. We have more pitchers, so giving Morton and/or JoJo wouldn’t have been bad either. If we are really trying to get 2 pitchers, then the rotation is pretty full. Those two, Jair, Campillo, Smoltz/Glavine/prospect. You wouldn’t necessarily need a young starter to come up next season (also remember that Todd Redmond did really well at AA). We have a lot of really good pitchers in A (Scott Diamond, Jeff Locke, Cole Rohrbough). Once we need them, they will be here. It would not have in fact weakened the system so much. Trading Flowers would have hurt more because we have few catchers. Trading Freeman would have hurt more because we have few legit 1B. If you move strengths, you don’t weaken your system so much. When we made the Tex trade, we moved from our strengths (SP, C, SS). If our system was so bad, then why did we match up well with the Padres. Granted, moving more would hurt, but the four years of Peavy makes things better.

Overall, I do agree that Wren needed to stop. He clearly wasn’t comfortable with what he was going to give up. But I would argue that a Peavy trade in fact helps our future.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 14, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

Mark Can you stop by arbys? If not ill take 2 volcano tacos. Not asking too much…

kirknga I really think Hanson is as sure thing as possible. Dude has all the physical tools to be successful. All this and only been to single A, dude has MAD potential.

Wren values Peavy, but even Hanson for Peavy swap wouldn’t happen.

Wren for president

By Whopper Dawg

November 14, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

Wise choice. We have been trading our prospects for vets (excellent vets I admit), that just keep us in the middle of the pack. Time to take a step back and let talent develop. I remember the AJC had a picture on their preseason baseball insert which headlined “Young Guns”. Smoltz, Glavine, Mercker and one other pitcher (maybe Avery, maybe not) were on the cover. I think that was the 1990 season. Keep the kids.

Whopper Dawg

By BigWorm

November 14, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Mark let me get the triple steak burrito and a large baja mountain dew..thanks

In all seriousness, are the Braves back to talking to the Cards about Ludwick for KJ or are we trying to get another LF through a trade?

By Whopper Dawg

November 14, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Wise choice. We have been trading our prospects for vets (excellent vets I admit), that just keep us in the middle of the pack. Time to take a step back and let talent develop. I remember the AJC had a picture on their preseason baseball insert which headlined “Young Guns”. Smoltz, Glavine, Mercker and one other pitcher (maybe Avery, maybe not) were on the cover. I think that was the 1990 season. Keep the kids.

Whopper Dawg

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 14, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

Bigworm Oh ya that triple steak is good but i’d rather go to Chipotle Grill.

Mark watch out! we might blow up your blog in a day or two!!

By Corey

November 14, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

I agree with not giving in. But, unless you’re okay with not competing until 2010 (at the earliest), you should hope the Peavy deal does eventually happen. Look, it will be highly unlikely to sign 2 of the 3 targets (Burnett, Lowe, Dempster). And, there is a good chance that they all sign elsewhere. Then what? We end up with 2 middle of the rotation guys. And, no Hudson, no Smoltz, no Glavine and possibly no Hampton. They’ll lose 90 games again even if Jurrjens wins 20. It’s nice to have the boys in the farm. But, what have the last 3 seasons been about… besides losing? The farm hasn’t exactly panned out. Just because JS screwed up the deal for Teixeira (1 year rental), doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do whatever it takes to get Peavy (4 or 5 years). It take something to get something. And, Peavy is something.

By AdirondackDave

November 14, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Here’s one more reason Frank Wren did the right thing by pulling out. Everybody on the planet including 29 other GMs know we went too far on the Tex trade. I think the Pads were very aware of that fact and pushed beyond reasonable limits. Pulling out of the deal tells other GMs that they can expect a balanced deal from the Braves but they won’t give away the farm. Well done, Frank. And it wouldn’t surprise me if the Pads call back at some point.

By Eric from MO

November 14, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

I understand the reasons for not making the trade and I agree dont trade Hansen but to me there should of been nobody else on that list. Yeah, our farm system helped in the 90’s but so did big time offseason moves like getting Maddux and that is what this would of been. Except even bigger cause great pitching has gotten alot more scarce than the 90’s. There are only a few hand full of “stoppers” in baseball and Peavy was one of them. I will name you the list of stoppers: Santana, Sabathia, Beckett, Peavy, and Webb and thats about it. I may of forgotten one or two but probably no more.

Now we look at Burnett, Lowe, and Dempster. If we have a 5 game losing streak do you feel confident with any of them ending that? Honestly no. Dempster had one good year, Burnett is barely over .500 for his career and has a bad habbit of pitching good in a contract year, and Lowe is old. I think we all saw last year what old pitchers do for you. So unless the Braves decide to do something big like go after Sabathia plan on watching October baseball without the Braves again for the next couple of years and maybe the next decade.

By Brian

November 14, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

Mark,

I’ll take a cheesy gordita crunch. The greatest thing this side of the chili cheese burrito.

By IlliniBrave

November 14, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

Mark:

Do you know Towers at all? Can you shed any light on whether he was just being a hard bargainer, or was he trying to play the Braves for a fool, or… was he smoking crack? Because I’ve been following this thing like crazy, and every day it seemed that another player was being added. On ESPN, they claimed that it was going to take FIVE players to get Peavey. FIVE???!!! Not only was Wren right to say “NO” but Towers has probably lost any credibility with other teams wanting to negotiate for Peavey. I mean, what he was asking for was just crazy.

By kirkinga

November 14, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

Nocturnal Owl I hope he is. I find it curious though that are claiming that he will improve the rotation next season.

I’m thinking he better be as good as JJ was last season. If not then he’s then I will worry that he really is just Charlie Morton with a bit of swagger. It certainly will cause people to wonder if not including him in a trade for Peavy was a wise move.

If he is as good as advertised, then adding a Burnett or quality starter will be enough to improve the rotation. Whether it’s enough to contend I don’t know, but we should be looking at Hanson as an upgrade in the rotation.

Otherwise he’s not so special.

By Mark Bradley

November 14, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

I’ve been around Kevin Towers but haven’t met him. I imagine he’s doing what all GMs of a lousy team would do — holding out for everything he can get for his one big asset. If you’re San Diego, there’s no reason to trade your best player in November if your price isn’t met. You can always settle for less later. And Towers might have to.

The Bradley family went fairly basic tonight — five items off the Taco Bell 99 cent menu. (Money’s tight, as you’ve probably heard.)

Oh, and thanks to one and all for hanging in late on a Friday night.

By sc

November 15, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

Since when did “rebuild” become a 4-letter word in Atlanta. Lets face it guys, we aren’t anywhere close to a pennant and one top quality pitcher like Peavy isn’t going to put us there. Basically it would be like subbing Peavy for Hudson last year. Do you really think we would have made the playoffs if Hudson hadn’t gotten hurt? We need to trade whatever old talent we have for prospects and then give this team about 2 years to develop (see Tampa Bay Rays). So, what do we have to trade? Chipper!

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 15, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Think of it like this. Jair Jurrjens, Jo-Jo Reyes, Charlie Morton and Tommy Hanson. They are the core of our young pitchers. Like the young guns of 1990, some will turn out really good. As Smoltz and Glavine did. Others, such as Steve Avery will burn out quick and of course, the Pete Smith’s and Kent Mercker’s will turn out to be fairly pedestrian.

Tim Hudson will be back and hopefully Frank Wren can pick up two or three arms through free agency and trade.

It all starts with pitching, backed up by great defense and then the offense will factor in.

As far as who the Braves might pursue, Zack Greinke’s name has come up. But it’s highly unlikely that Dayton Moore would trade his ace. The Royals seem poised to win in 2009, much like the Tampa Rays did this season.

By Dawg4Life

November 15, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

Dave, Why doesn’t ATL go out and sign Sheets, Penny and Burnett. Cordero would be a good pen guy. Penny could be a steal. Also do you like Baldelli or Burrell for the OF?

By Dawg4Life

November 15, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

My bad, Mark.

By Emperor Palpatine(fka Hawks Fan 80)

November 15, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

sc I believe the Braves would have contended last season if they hadn’t lost 4/5ths of their rotation along with their 3 primary late-innings guys.

No team is deep enough to survive those types of injuries. But on paper we had the deepest pitching staff in the NL last season.

By Eric from MO

November 15, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

Dawg we have money to spend but not that much. Geeze

By Supes

November 15, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

I guess we’ll be getting our 20 wins from TOMMY HANSON…Charlie Morton, Jo-Jo Reyes, Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton.

Jake Peavy is the best option after C.C. Sabathia on this “market”, and yes I know Jake wasn’t a free agent but I’m speaking top tier starters who are being made available one way or another.

Since the Braves aren’t getting C.C. Sabathia…well you can put your own conclusion here folks.

Bottom Line: Frank Wren doesn’t have the balls to play for right now. He’s playing for 2010, 2011, etc. I guess as a loyal Braves fan, I’ll be rewarded with at least 2 more years of mediocrity, around .500 ball, and seeing the Mets and or Phillies celebrate more NL East Division Titles.

OK Mr Wren, want to prove me wrong, go out and sign C.C. Sabathia! Just prove me wrong, oh no wait, we’ll have Jo-Jo, Morton and Hanson to help us win the NL East and get us into the playoffs.

Braves Fans - Get used to being ridiculed by the Mets and Phillies for the next few years, this is the msg sent from Frank Wren right now. He’s afraid to pull a big time trade. Where is Shuerholtz when you need him!

By brent a.

November 15, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

I hope some of the people who were blasting Wren for “giving too much”, are choking on their words tonight.

Until a deal is completed, no GM ever gives too much.

By brent a.

November 15, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

I hope some of the people who were blasting Wren for “giving too much”, are choking on their words tonight.

Until a deal is completed, no GM ever gives too much.

By Mark Bradley

November 15, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this

I’d take Burrell over Baldelli for health reasons, but I’ve never been a big Burrell fan, either. I think Penny and Burnett are possibilities — so is Derek Lowe — but I believe the Mike Hampton saga might keep the Braves from pursuing Sheets. (This is just me guessing, mind you.)

As for the bullpen: In Wren’s day-after-the-season media briefing, he stressed that the Braves like the makeup of their relief corps — Gonzalez healthy again, Soriano and Moylan presumably coming back. You’re free to disagree, but that’s what he said.

And I don’t think Frank Wren is afraid to trade. Didn’t he ship Teixeira to Anaheim for Casey Kotchman?

By kirknga

November 15, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this

Supes I would just point out that you don’t who all of the available players are.Frank Wren does, but we don’t.

Believe it or not there were 8 teams who made it to the playoffs this past season and none of them had Jake Peavy on their squads.

The World Champions don’t feature a pitcher the caliber of Jake Peavy. They do have at one very good starter and not much else until you get to a shut down bullpen.

The Phillies are a bright shining example that you don’t have to have a Cy Young winner, or even two very good starters, in order to win.

The Braves can improve and perhaps contend without the services of Jake Peavy.

By Supes

November 15, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

Frank Wren is exactly afraid of trading Tommy Hanson and Jordan S. to the Padres b/c of what might happen.

However, prospects are just that…prospects. As awesome as Tommy Hanson has been in 2008 he hasn’t pitched 1 time in the major leagues. Jordan S. still hasn’t completely turned it around either (his struggles with power numbers, etc after missing the time)

This is Frank Wren’s defining “off -season” It’s too bad that John S. “mortgaged” the farm short term to rent Tex for 1 and half seasons, but tough luck.

It shouldn’t be used as an example of keeping the Braves from acquiring the 2nd best available ace starter in the major leagues (who will make less than C.C Sabathia is going to get and is in the prime of his career). I’m having Greg Maddux flashbacks, only looks like Jake isn’t coming to the ATL to anchor the Braves starting pitching staff for the near future.

By Johnny B

November 15, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

Would still like to have Peavy but its time to move on.Wren put it out there and if what we’re offering isn’t good enough then so be it.I think Wren did the smart and shrewd thing.

What do you guys think about Juan Rivera from the Angles as a FA pick-up? 30 years old, primarily played RF,lifetime .284 hitter in his last full season (2006) had 30+ homers and will get around 2 mil+…Just a thought.

By kirknga

November 15, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

Rivera would be an improvement over last season’s RF production, but there are other good candidates. I’m not sure he won’t eventually resign with the Angels anyway.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 15, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this

Taco Bell 99 cent menu. (Money’s tight, as you’ve probably heard.) MB

Yep i just finished my taco bell(no other option, Not cooking). Lunch time for the Owl…

Mark, Tough times? Man I would love to have your Job. What you don’t buy CD’s like DOB?

Kirknga

Kirk my man, take all the Hanson expectation you have out the door. Like I said he just finished single A level. He is ahead of schedule but even a single win would be a bonus for 2009. Hanson has finally hit top 20 prospects in entire MILB!! Heyward near top ten. Our future is growing very nicely but no reason to push them.

DONT FULLY GIVE UP ON PEAVY JUST YET! THIS COULD BE A WREN SETUP

but clearly, we are ready to be a factor in the free agency………

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 15, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

RE: Hanson “He’s something I’ve never seen before. Just from my experience last spring training, catching guys like Tim Hudson, John Smoltz — he’s right there with them, in my opinion.” Tyler Flowers

By kirknga

November 15, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this

Nocturnal Owl, I’m having a hard time dialing back the expectations for Hanson. I mean if this guy is so special that you decide to give up your very good major league SS instead then I expect to be wowed..now!

I mean we’re told he has a maturity and mental makeup that are as noticeable as his four pitches so I’m not seeing why we can’t gave a look sooner rather than later.

If he’s still a season two away then I’m thinking he might might not be a lock for the major leagues and you trade him for an ace.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 15, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this

then I expect to be wowed..now

What AZ league hasn’t..read DOB’s article on Hanson.

No, don’t trade away Hanson since he might be two years away. Our team is built for the future and (at this time) we shouldn’t kill our future to help this bad team.

Hanson will come up when he’s ready and no other route is an option at this time. Trading him would be a mistake like Detroit trading John Smoltz.

By Johnny B

November 15, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this

Actually I was thinking of Rivera as a possible LF candidate. I think you still gotta give Frenchy the chance to come back and redeem himself.If he can make the adjustments and find some plate discipline he still can be good…It remains to be seen.

Over on the Angels site the beat writer says they don’t deem him a “priority”. Also saying he deserves a chance to play everyday. With them not picking up the option on the other guy he may be a priority now.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 15, 2008 2:07 AM | Link to this

kirknga no rebuttal? anyone here? its only 2AM I’m lonely!!

By Ronald Millsaps

November 15, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

Let’s face it, folks: The Padres aren’t as eager to trade Peavy as a lot of bloggers are to see him arrive. It’s still November; Opening Day is almost half a year away, and they know that the Braves are anxious to get him. Do you think they’re going to ink a deal immediately when they could take their time—which they have plenty of—and see if the Braves would reconsider trading Hanson?

Honestly, I’d forget the Peavy deal. I like our squad for the most part and now would pursue Adam Dunn and/or Rafael Furcal.

What about our pitching? Jorge Campillo and Jair Jurrjens will be fine in ‘09. I’d re-sign Mike Hampton, which shouldn’t be hard (the Yankees are looking elsewhere), and go with Tom Glavine and John Smoltz. (My reverse order isn’t a talent implication.) There also are Charlie Morton and Jo-Jo Reyes to consider, and I think Morton is up for an improved ‘09; Reyes I’m not so sure about. The talent is there, but he needs to be more respectful of Cooperstown-bound individuals, especially when they’re teammates.

We don’t have to have Peavy. We already have several guys who can pitch fairly well. Heck, Hanson might make the Opening Day rotation.

Yunel Escobar is one of the finest shortstops in the game and a great “two” hitter. I really, really didn’t like the idea of losing him and am glad to see that we probably won’t be.

Now, let’s not trade Kelly Johnson, either. We don’t need Ryan Ludwick. We really don’t. If anything, let’s use the money we have to re-sign our guys (Smoltz, Hampton, Glavine), perhaps A.J. Burnett, Adam Dunn, and Juan Cruz. (Cruz could help us out in the bullpen or even in the rotation.)

Ownership needs to step it up and commit to winning. I’m tired of this blamed stinginess. Its fall over the last decade has been similar to, well, that of TBS. (I know Time Warner doesn’t own the team anymore, but point taken, er, given.)

By Ronald Millsaps

November 15, 2008 2:33 AM | Link to this

correction: “very well”, not “fairly well”

I’m telling you; get Adam Dunn. He’d be a lineup-changer.

If we do, I’d go…

Josh Anderson—CF; Yunel Escobar—SS; Chipper Jones—3B; Adam Dunn—LF; Brian McCann—C; Jeff Francoeur—RF; Casey Kotchman/Martin Prado—1B; Kelly Johnson—2B (the greatest “eight” hitter of all time).

There’s also the possibility that Dunn would need to play first. Fine; move Prado to second and Johnson to left.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 15, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this

Ronald Millsaps I have to agree with you. Plus I agree that Ludwick will not be the answer. I’m expecting some spending from Liberty Media this winter. We need to get back to the old Braves.

We have a nice core and a positive future. If we add solid players (2 starters and OF) we should be improving team and ready to assault N.L. East come 2010-2011.

Nice post bro.

By Armond Hill

November 15, 2008 2:50 AM | Link to this

Sorry to disagree but…Peavy (when healthy) is THE most dominant arm in the game. And costing “only” seven digits per year over 4, he is also the steal of the game. Not saying the Braves should throw in Hanson, but everybody else is fair game. Peavy is THE biggest name on the trading blocks. You really don’t expect the Pads to take garbage for him do you?. With Peavy and Lowe or Penny or Burnett or Sheets at the top of the rotation we’ve got a chance reguardless of what the O does. Give em 5 sans Hanson. Sign another ace and go from there.

By Ronald Millsaps

November 15, 2008 2:51 AM | Link to this

If we can sign a Cruz, Dempster, Burnett, etc., that might not be a bad move. I’ve considered acquiring Furcal, moving Escobar to second, and Johnson to left, but if we keep Escobar, I wouldn’t pursue Furcal.

Mainly, I’d re-sign our guys, then Dunn and Cruz. Quietly, Cruz would be a huge addition to our pitching staff.

Back to Johnson, we don’t need him to hit as many homers as Ludwick did this year. Turner Field isn’t conducive to home runs, like a lot of parks are, but Johnson exploits its dimensions perfectly for doubles and triples.

Had Johnson been batting lower in the order consistently and not getting so many days off, he might’ve hit 24 over the fence last season.

Another possibility before I log out:

Rotation (before Hudson’s hopeful return):

Tom Glavine Mike Hampton Jorge Campillo Jair Jurrjens Juan Cruz

Top four relievers: Peter Moylan, Rafael Soriano, Mike Gonzalez, John Smoltz.

Long relief: Charlie Morton, Jeff Bennett

By Ken Stallings

November 15, 2008 4:53 AM | Link to this

The Padres should be real careful here. Baseball is a small community and it doesn’t take long to earn a reputation as a GM who doesn’t enter trade talks in good faith. The Padres strung the Braves along, wanting a player that the Braves staff said immediately was firmly off the trade market under any circumstances.

GM’s are wise when they respect what’s said and treat the information as though it came from an honorable source who meant it!

The Padres are not negotiating from a position of strength. It is widely known that the owner needs to slash payroll. Worse, Kevin Towers has already publicly thrown Peavy under the bus, saying his trade “has already left the station.” Towers has burned the bridge with his club’s best pitcher. Now, he has vastly more limited options to trade him.

The winner in all this may be the Cubs, who suddenly don’t have to enrich their trade offer one bit and could, in fact, reduce it. Maybe the Padres can mend fences with Peavy, or maybe they cannot. But the demand to slash payroll seems in force at all costs.

Towers owed the Braves a more timely answer. This deal should have concluded last week. If the Padres needed Hanson and no one else, then they should have said so up front. When the Braves’ Wren said Hanson was off limits, Towers should have said, “Thanks, but we don’t have the basis of a trade here.”

That’s how you preserve your honor in trade talks.

Ultimately, Wren proved he’s a wise GM. It’s more often the trade you don’t make that defines your career for the best. Hanson by all accounts seems another Jake Peavy within a year. There’s a possibility we may see him in Atlanta by end of the upcoming season.

You don’t trade that away. You grow that talent and keep it your own.

By braves11p4p

November 15, 2008 5:48 AM | Link to this

By the end of the year???

Hanson will most certainly make the team out of spring training.

Nocturnal Owl:”Like I said he just finished single A level” —-Excuse me but he pitched most of last season at AA and dominated in the process, the kid is ready for the major NOW.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 15, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this

don’t use the word certain with a 22y old. He could but not certain.

By richbrave

November 15, 2008 7:45 AM | Link to this

PLOY. WREN can buy TAZAWA, HAMPTON, BURNETT and OHMAN for $$$$ not players and have SMOLTZ, JUIRJENS, HUDSON, CAMPILLO, BOYER, REYES, PARR, BENNETT, REYES, GONZALEZ and SORIANO under contract. NO farm prospects lost. Therefore, the PEAVY deal can be revisited if that eventuality arises.

By richbrave

November 15, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this

Oops. Insert MORTON for one REYES in the previous post.

By Mark Bradley

November 15, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

Oh, I buy CDs. Just not as many as I did when I was a young man. In fact, I bought “High School Musical 3” this week.

I have an 11-year-old daughter.