This blog has moved! Yes, already!
As of Thursday, Feb. 12, this little blog has relocated to a new home on AJC.com. It’s the same newspaper, the same Web site and the same writer (feel free to groan) — there’s just a new URL.
New features: Bigger type, more graphics, comments that load 10 times faster and a larger and more recent photo that makes me look pretty doggone old. I think you’ll like it (the blog, not the photo). But I am, as we know too well, often wrong.
Home > Mark Bradley > Archives > 2008 > November > 14 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USWren wise to not buckle to Padres’ demands
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Getting Jake would have been, to use a dated expression, jake. But getting Jake Peavy would almost have been too easy. The Braves’ starting pitching falls to pieces and they go out and land one of the best in the business — no muss, no fuss, the rich get richer.
Only that’s the thing. The Braves aren’t rich anymore. They’re not the moneyed club that raided San Diego for a fairly productive first baseman on July 18, 1993, for the modest price of Melvin Nieves, Donnie Elliott and Vince Moore. The days of the Braves dealing from a position of absolute strength have gone the way of the Crime Dog.
In this post-Time Warner era, the Braves have become just another mid-level organization. They’ve got a handful of nice big-league players and their usual array of heralded prospects, but they’re unable to make a Fred McGriff-type move without having it hurt. That’s surely why Frank Wren has backed away from his protracted negotiations with the Padres — they wanted an awful lot, and Wren’s club is no longer positioned to give.
It’s believed the Padres were asking for prospect Tommy Hanson, and the best Wren was prepared to offer was Charlie Morton with Yunel Escobar as a sweetener. And therein you see the problem: Even the lure of a young starting shortstop plus a young starting pitcher wasn’t enough to sway a general manager whose team lost 99 games this summer. Because if these dangled young Braves were so good, how’d Atlanta manage to lose 90?
Peavy made financial sense. He’s under contract for $59 million over the next four seasons. That’s a lot of money, but it’s not nearly what CC Sabathia will command as a free agent. Trading for Peavy wouldn’t have broken the bank — dented it, yes — but Wren would have had to bankrupt his minor-league chain to swing such a deal, and that he cannot do.
Because what if Peavy, splendid as he is, comes up with a bum arm? Then you’re without the big-ticket pitcher, and you’re also without Hanson, whom Wren has told reporters could one day be a Peavy. Then you’re where the Braves wound up 12 months after they traded for Mark Teixeira, and that’s not a place an organization can visit more than once.
Dealing five prospects for a one-year rental — John Schuerholz’s parting gift to Wren — left the new GM with a defoliated farm system. Trading for Peavy would have made a loud noise, but so did dealing for Teixeira, who departed for Anaheim with barely a whimper. With the unerring wisdom of hindsight, that brief noise was poor compensation for a raft of lost youth.
The Braves didn’t lose 90 games just by getting unlucky. They lost 90 games because they went too long without developing a Peavy of their own. (And it’s only through Wren’s deft trade of Edgar Renteria that they have Jair Jurrjens.) Their aging pitchers finally broke down, and there wasn’t a yet a next wave behind them. Hanson and Jurrjens and maybe Charlie Morton could be that next wave, but the Braves know better than anyone the cost of buying age with youth.
In August 1987 they traded Doyle Alexander to Detroit, where he went 9-0 and helped win a division title. The kid pitcher the Braves got for Alexander is bound for Cooperstown. Maybe Tommy Hanson will turn out to be more a Pete Smith than a John Smoltz, but in all of baseball there’s still no greater commodity than young pitching. Give Wren credit for hoarding his. Give Wren credit for not making the best trade he’ll ever not make.
Permalink | Comments (346) | Post your comment | Categories: Braves/MLB
Services »
Comments
By JimK
November 14, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
Well said, Mark. Agree 100%
By Tim
November 14, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
I whole heartly agree. The Braves forgot what made him good in the 90s and that was home grown players. Instead the last 5 years or so they went out and traded players like a Adam Wainwright or Matt Harrison that turned into good big league starters just to get band aids at the major league level.
Now they are paying the price. As a fan it sucks but I have been saying hold onto our young players and get ready for 2010 or 2011.
By Ron Roberts
November 14, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
Agreed.
By Brian
November 14, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Bradley- That’s all good but you know something, we’re a little tired( yes, it’s only been 3 years), of being disappointed and frustrated with injuries, aging pitchers and guys that underachieve with poor fundamentals! Wren did the right thing by not giving in but if he doesn’t get a TRUE ace, then you will be a happy boy with the Braves being just an average team for awhile.
By Bama
November 14, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Sometimes the best deal is the one you don’t make. Alot of times I’ve waited to long on a deal etc. and when I did decide to pull the trigger it was to late. But everytime a better deal came along.
Agree with Wren, Padras were asking to much and playing the Braves. Now FW can get on with the FA and build this team the right way. Thanks Mark for Blog.
By Kenneth Simpson
November 14, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
I am glad Wren pulled the trigger on that trade. Escobar is the best shortstop the braves have had in a long time and that includes Furcal who has back problems now and if they had traded Escobar he may have been in the picture. He jumped ship to play for the Dodgers and let him stay off our ship and sink somewhere else. The braves need to keep the good players in the farm system and not empty it like they did in the 12 month rental for Tex. Now look what they have in return. That trade still stinks like the one when Kenny Lofton was a rental and JD Drew rental. Look at the 2 good pitchers who they gave away for JD for a rental player. Let the kids develop one more year if needed and then see what they can do. I can’t wait to see the duo of Hanson and Flowers. Please keep them together and not give either of them away. This kid Heyward sounds awsome too. Let the kids play and maybe they can turn this franchise around. I feel Peavy has some arm trouble and if he don’t he will if the braves get him. All the braves pitchers develop arm trouble but we don’t need baggage to begin with. Towers knows something we don’t know so watch out. Let someone else empty their farm for him.
By Mark Bradley
November 14, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
Four agreements out of five — obviously I’ve done something wrong.
Kidding. (And thanks, folks.)
By lawton
November 14, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
AGREED. The Braves farm system is more important than Peavy. I didnt like the Renteria trade, but now its looks good. Wren seems to know what he is doing after all. The only thing i didnt like was their wanting to RESIGN Mike Hampton. Oh I wish they could part with him for some minor league pitching prospects.
By Chop Chop
November 14, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Hell, what if Tommy Hanson’s arm falls apart? What if he doesn’t live up to the hype? That’s the other side of this argument. Let’s hope Tommy Hanson validates Wren’s faith in him.
By RDub
November 14, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
AGREED, but lets go out and get Burnett, or any #1 pitcher for that fact. What power outfield bats are we looking at? DOB any input?
By NCBravesFan
November 14, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
It seems to me things have to operate on two tracks if you’re Wren - you try to get the best players in the offseason via free agency and trades that you can, but you also preserve key pieces of the farm system at all costs.
Our biggest problem with trades is noted by Mark B. above, and when it comes to the FA route - we need pitching - as do the Yankees and a lot of other teams with money to spend.
This process is not going to be easy. If Wren rolls snake eyes this winter, the Braves will get back into the division title chase in 2009 and beyond. But it would seem the more likely outcome, short of trading the farm, is that we are positioning for 2010-2011 or so.
By country boy
November 14, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
One more AGREED Mark. Do you belittle yourself and read Dave O’Brien - the third tier beat writer? Had he been our GM I think he would have traded Yunel, McCann and Jair to get Peavy judging from his blind and mindless blogs. Glad you mentioned Peavy’s arm too. I think it is possible Towers and Padres are less than honest about that pitching arm.
By BE#
November 14, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
We’ve been burned on a trade for a big name pitcher before (see Mike Hampton). Glad Hampton finished strong this year but let’s give our own guy a shot! Nice analysis Mark!
By Steph
November 14, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
I wanted to pull out. The Pads are setting themselves up for the same thing Atlanta did when Millwood had to be traded. They got nothing for a starting pitcher. One player. Just wait till we shore up our team and then Peavy takes a good look. The Pads have to dump him and now we are in the buyers seat. If they come back to the braves I would offer Reyes and thats it.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 14, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
Ditto that. You said it all Mark. Now, Lets just hope that Yunel Escobar doesn’t mysteriously end up being traded anyway.
Or that Ruben Amaro Jr. and the Phillies don’t get frisky and decide that Peavy is worth chasing.
By kirknga
November 14, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
I agree as well. But I also am not yet sold on the idea that Peavy will yet be a Brave. I would also add that Liberty Media is not a “mid-level” conglomerate and could afford to expand the Braves’ payroll if they so desired.
The Braves’ need for improved starting pitching did not go away today. The Padres apparently as of yet do not have a team that has met their demands.
Until Peavy goes to some other team, or the pieces of the Peavy trade are used to acquire some other player, I believe the matter is still an open one.
By Phillip
November 14, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Frank Wren did 100% the right thing in pulling the plug on this trade. As great as Peavy is, pitchers just have a tendency of breaking down and especially power pitchers like Peavy. Maybe I am overvaluing Yunel Escobar but he is a very, very nice shortstop and potential all-star. How many teams have a guy like Escobar at shortstop who is a gold glove that can hit for average and power? Not many!!! I don’t know how good Gorkys Hernandez is but I know we have “garbage” for outfield at the major league level. On top of that, the Padres wanted Tommy Hanson - our best pitching prospect? I figure Hanson has about 50/50 shot or better of being a Peavy - so we give Pads an all-star shortstop potenital starting centerfielder AND our best pitching prospect? Uh-uhh- NO!
As you brilliantly stated Mark, this is not “your Daddy’s Braves” - we are not one move from a World Series anymore and we are in “rebuilding mode” - you don’t “tear down the farm system” in a deal like this in rebuilding mode.
Good move staying put Wren…….I would not be suprised if Padres GM sleeps on this and lowers his requirement from Braves though - from what I understand, Padres said they are not bringing Peavy back and the only other offer was Cubs which was not as good as our offer……
greedy bastage!
By DurhamBravesFan
November 14, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
Here here. The more names that were added every day to the list to get Peavy, the more this trade really looked irresponsibly dangerous. Major kudos to Frankie Boy for saying “nah” to the Padres. While Peavy is a great pitcher - he is only ONE man, and a man with an arm that is not all that healthy of late. Way to go Braves - I have a feeling this was a great non-move.
Oh, and War Eagle.
By Nelson
November 14, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Thanks God!!! Yunel Escobar is still a Brave! I Agree keep the young players they are the future!!
By Jake
November 14, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop
What if his arm falls apart? It’s easier to fix a young arm than an older one, see Smoltz. What if Hanson doesn’t live up to the hype? What if Peavy doesn’t? See Tim Hudson. All trades are risk. There will always be what ifs but Wren did the right thing by not giving up too much for a guy that can only pitch once every five days and will never have what Hanson has on his side and thats youth. Youth can kill you sometimes but it can also be that breath of fresh air. I mean if were playing what ifs, what if Charlie Morton or Jojo Reyes turned out to be that ace and Hanson a bust? What if?
By Nocturnal Owl
November 14, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
OH NO! no DOB blog ? since the blog crashed anyone here? No peavy and no blog=:(
By Chipper'sJonze
November 14, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
This may be the first time I’ve read an AJC reporter say that not pulling off this trade may actually be a good thing. No offense to DOB, but if San Diego can teach us anything, it’s that you can still lose a lot of games with “one of the few legitimate aces.” Even Peavy said he was not interested in joining a significantly weakened team, as the Braves certainly would have been had the deal gone through, both now and in the near future.
By oasisbraves
November 14, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this
He said…if the Braves pitchers were any good, how did they manage to lose 90 games? Is Bradley BLIND?
INJURIES!!!!!!
Name a team that had as many people go down as the 2008 Braves.
By kirkinga
November 14, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
*Nocturnal Owl *
Well we all knew the crash was coming. I wonder if Mark will come out and entertain us until a new Braves/MIB Blog is born?
By Ken
November 14, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
Honestly, this has nothing to do with Frank Wren being savvy, it had more to do with the sloth of the Padres front office. In my opinion, Jake Peavy will still be an Atlanta Brave. The Padres will play the field for another week or so and they will call Wren back and the deal will get done. Brent Lillibridge looks like he is ready to assume the starting shortshop duties and Charlie Morton is not one of the young pitchers that the Braves will miss.
By kirkinga
November 14, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
Ken you could be right. We should all recall how the Yankees “withdrew” from the Santana negotiations on more than one occasion last Winter.
By Heath
November 14, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Also agree… While getting Peavy would have been nice, his home/road splits and his potential injury problems don’t warrant a plethera of young Braves. I also wouldn’t want to create a hole a SS to get a guy who could very well end up on the DL… I think there are other avenues of approach out there for Wren.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 14, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Lol Kirknga…Mark where are you? It’s your time to shine!
Ken you got that right. We should focus other places but Peavy not 100% done, Wren has let everyone know he will not be stepped on. You call us if you want the deal that I offered.
By Brian
November 14, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Mark, any truth to the Braves making offers today to CC, Dempster and AJ?
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 14, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
Brian…What? Throwing a curveball on mark? LOL
By Mark Bradley
November 14, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
Actually, I’m at the Thrashers game. They’re leading 3-1 in the third, you should know.
And you’re probably right: These negotiations could well re-open down the line. But I think Frank Wren has drawn his line in the figurative San Diego sand.
By Mark Bradley
November 14, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
Brian, I don’t know about the offers. But I’d be stunned if the Braves believe they have a chance at Sabathia. The other two, sure. But not Sabathia.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 14, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley speaking of hockey, Can you believe Barry Melrose got fired? only 16 games,wow
By Brian
November 14, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Noc, someone created a thread over at scout.com stating that ESPN was repoting those three offers.
By Couch Tater
November 14, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
Nocturnal Owl, Kirkinga
Dave’s been writing this Peavy novel since October 6, now Mr. Bradley gets the ending. lol.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 14, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
Mark, Where is DOB?
By jp
November 14, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
I don’t know why everyone loves Peavy. He went 10-11 last year. Ya he had a 2.85 ERA but that was in the most pitcher friendly stadium in the NL. He just won’t put up those ERA numbers here.
Now he would have been worth a couple of prospects and a position player but not the top prospects and a possible all-star position player. Peavy is not Johan Santana and not even Mark Teixeira.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 14, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
Brian ESPN is reporting Yankees offering Record contract to CC. No way that would happen!!! I’m ready for some action since FA started!!
By Mark Bradley
November 14, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
I don’t know where Dave is. Sorry. But I’m happy to report that esteemed colleague Mike Knobler is sitting right beside me.
About Barry Melrose: How bad can you be to get fired after 16 games?
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 14, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Couch Tater hey buddy! DOB wrote that Wren report and called it a weekend!
By Braveheart
November 14, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
I don’t know why everyone loves Peavy
Wasn’t love. ‘Twas lust.
By kirkinga
November 14, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Couch Tater, true. If I had to guess I would say DOB was squarely for the trade. To be fair he did say that the concerns about Peavy’s health were legit and shouldn’t be glossed over.
I just hope this Hanson kid can live up to the hype. It still feels like Charlie Morton a year ago to me.
Don’t know if this is the end of the trade story, perhaps just a chapter, but we’ve got alot of offseason to go.
By Braveheart
November 14, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
I just hope this Hanson kid can live up to the hype.
Yeah, if Hanson sucks and Peavy goes and wins a few more Cy Youngs for some other team, Johnny Cash’s father will keep telling Hanson that “the Devil took the wrong son”, er, chose the wrong pitcher.
By BRAVE FAN IN PA
November 14, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
I think Wren is smart enough to see what keeping the boys in the farm system can do. I’ve lived in Pa now for about 11 years and the Phillies finally have a Chammpionship with a major portion of Farm boys- It will never take away from me being a Braves fan. Hammels,Utley,Rollins,Howard,Werth,Burrel.For years they were dishing the boys from the farm and now realized just how important to keep young talent.
On that note I said I would love to see the Braves go after Pat the Bat- The guy puts up solid numbers every year-32 years old-I think he still has some solid years left in the tank! What does anyone else think?
By Harry
November 14, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Mark: column after column you display your ignorance. I assume you’re a nice guy, but come on, your knowledge is pathetic. Exhibit A: Charlie Morton was not the centerpiece of this deal. You say that Yunel was “sweetener.” Exact opposite, my friend. B: I don’t follow your logic of the McGriff trade. What about the franchise in the early 90’s allowed them to “raid” other franchises for lesser talent in return? By saying the Braves aren’t rich anymore, you assert that they can’t make the deals of latter days. Mark, this deal wasn’t about $$$. This was about who we were willing to give up. Had you done your research, you would know that the Braves’ farm is considered to be rather flush with talent; certainly in the top 25% of MLB clubs. Bottom line is the AJC has never held is writers responsible for their content (see T. Moore). Thank God for DOB; have a good weekend in Kansas.
By Couch Tater
November 14, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
From: Let the Train Blow the Whistle by Johnny Cash.(Dedicated to Kevin Towers)
I don’t want no aggravation
When my train has left the station
If your there or not,
I may not even know.
Have a round and remember
Things we did that weren’t so tender
Let the train blow the whistle when I go.
By Mark Bradley
November 14, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Thrashers won, by the way.
And Harry, you know all the particulars of the proposed deal, do you? Sitting in the room with Frank Wren, were you?
And here’s one thing I do know about the Braves’ farm system: It’s five men lighter than it would have been had they not traded for Teixeira.
Headed home now. Anyone want anything from Taco Bell?
By Flustered Fan
November 14, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Wren did good by not caving in. Remember the Len Barker trade? Sounds like we avoided one like that…
By themarksmith
November 14, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
To be fair, Hanson is much more of sure thing than Morton, for what that’s worth. Morton was a reliever for most of the past two or three seasons before this last one. Hanson has always been a strong starting pitcher who has moved through the system well.
As for the Peavy trade, I was uncomfortable with adding Escobar, but Hernandez and Morton were not turn-offs for me. We have CF’s and Morton doesn’t look like the next ace (maybe a 4 or 5 guy). You make trades from strengths. We have a strength in CF, so moving one wouldn’t be the end of the world. We have more pitchers, so giving Morton and/or JoJo wouldn’t have been bad either. If we are really trying to get 2 pitchers, then the rotation is pretty full. Those two, Jair, Campillo, Smoltz/Glavine/prospect. You wouldn’t necessarily need a young starter to come up next season (also remember that Todd Redmond did really well at AA). We have a lot of really good pitchers in A (Scott Diamond, Jeff Locke, Cole Rohrbough). Once we need them, they will be here. It would not have in fact weakened the system so much. Trading Flowers would have hurt more because we have few catchers. Trading Freeman would have hurt more because we have few legit 1B. If you move strengths, you don’t weaken your system so much. When we made the Tex trade, we moved from our strengths (SP, C, SS). If our system was so bad, then why did we match up well with the Padres. Granted, moving more would hurt, but the four years of Peavy makes things better.
Overall, I do agree that Wren needed to stop. He clearly wasn’t comfortable with what he was going to give up. But I would argue that a Peavy trade in fact helps our future.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 14, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
Mark Can you stop by arbys? If not ill take 2 volcano tacos. Not asking too much…
kirknga I really think Hanson is as sure thing as possible. Dude has all the physical tools to be successful. All this and only been to single A, dude has MAD potential.
Wren values Peavy, but even Hanson for Peavy swap wouldn’t happen.
Wren for president
By Whopper Dawg
November 14, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this
Wise choice. We have been trading our prospects for vets (excellent vets I admit), that just keep us in the middle of the pack. Time to take a step back and let talent develop. I remember the AJC had a picture on their preseason baseball insert which headlined “Young Guns”. Smoltz, Glavine, Mercker and one other pitcher (maybe Avery, maybe not) were on the cover. I think that was the 1990 season. Keep the kids.
Whopper Dawg
By BigWorm
November 14, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
Mark let me get the triple steak burrito and a large baja mountain dew..thanks
In all seriousness, are the Braves back to talking to the Cards about Ludwick for KJ or are we trying to get another LF through a trade?
By Whopper Dawg
November 14, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
Wise choice. We have been trading our prospects for vets (excellent vets I admit), that just keep us in the middle of the pack. Time to take a step back and let talent develop. I remember the AJC had a picture on their preseason baseball insert which headlined “Young Guns”. Smoltz, Glavine, Mercker and one other pitcher (maybe Avery, maybe not) were on the cover. I think that was the 1990 season. Keep the kids.
Whopper Dawg
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 14, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
Bigworm Oh ya that triple steak is good but i’d rather go to Chipotle Grill.
Mark watch out! we might blow up your blog in a day or two!!
By Corey
November 14, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
I agree with not giving in. But, unless you’re okay with not competing until 2010 (at the earliest), you should hope the Peavy deal does eventually happen. Look, it will be highly unlikely to sign 2 of the 3 targets (Burnett, Lowe, Dempster). And, there is a good chance that they all sign elsewhere. Then what? We end up with 2 middle of the rotation guys. And, no Hudson, no Smoltz, no Glavine and possibly no Hampton. They’ll lose 90 games again even if Jurrjens wins 20. It’s nice to have the boys in the farm. But, what have the last 3 seasons been about… besides losing? The farm hasn’t exactly panned out. Just because JS screwed up the deal for Teixeira (1 year rental), doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do whatever it takes to get Peavy (4 or 5 years). It take something to get something. And, Peavy is something.
By AdirondackDave
November 14, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
Here’s one more reason Frank Wren did the right thing by pulling out. Everybody on the planet including 29 other GMs know we went too far on the Tex trade. I think the Pads were very aware of that fact and pushed beyond reasonable limits. Pulling out of the deal tells other GMs that they can expect a balanced deal from the Braves but they won’t give away the farm. Well done, Frank. And it wouldn’t surprise me if the Pads call back at some point.
By Eric from MO
November 14, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
I understand the reasons for not making the trade and I agree dont trade Hansen but to me there should of been nobody else on that list. Yeah, our farm system helped in the 90’s but so did big time offseason moves like getting Maddux and that is what this would of been. Except even bigger cause great pitching has gotten alot more scarce than the 90’s. There are only a few hand full of “stoppers” in baseball and Peavy was one of them. I will name you the list of stoppers: Santana, Sabathia, Beckett, Peavy, and Webb and thats about it. I may of forgotten one or two but probably no more.
Now we look at Burnett, Lowe, and Dempster. If we have a 5 game losing streak do you feel confident with any of them ending that? Honestly no. Dempster had one good year, Burnett is barely over .500 for his career and has a bad habbit of pitching good in a contract year, and Lowe is old. I think we all saw last year what old pitchers do for you. So unless the Braves decide to do something big like go after Sabathia plan on watching October baseball without the Braves again for the next couple of years and maybe the next decade.
By Brian
November 14, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this
Mark,
I’ll take a cheesy gordita crunch. The greatest thing this side of the chili cheese burrito.
By IlliniBrave
November 14, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
Mark:
Do you know Towers at all? Can you shed any light on whether he was just being a hard bargainer, or was he trying to play the Braves for a fool, or… was he smoking crack? Because I’ve been following this thing like crazy, and every day it seemed that another player was being added. On ESPN, they claimed that it was going to take FIVE players to get Peavey. FIVE???!!! Not only was Wren right to say “NO” but Towers has probably lost any credibility with other teams wanting to negotiate for Peavey. I mean, what he was asking for was just crazy.
By kirkinga
November 14, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this
Nocturnal Owl I hope he is. I find it curious though that are claiming that he will improve the rotation next season.
I’m thinking he better be as good as JJ was last season. If not then he’s then I will worry that he really is just Charlie Morton with a bit of swagger. It certainly will cause people to wonder if not including him in a trade for Peavy was a wise move.
If he is as good as advertised, then adding a Burnett or quality starter will be enough to improve the rotation. Whether it’s enough to contend I don’t know, but we should be looking at Hanson as an upgrade in the rotation.
Otherwise he’s not so special.
By Mark Bradley
November 14, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
I’ve been around Kevin Towers but haven’t met him. I imagine he’s doing what all GMs of a lousy team would do — holding out for everything he can get for his one big asset. If you’re San Diego, there’s no reason to trade your best player in November if your price isn’t met. You can always settle for less later. And Towers might have to.
The Bradley family went fairly basic tonight — five items off the Taco Bell 99 cent menu. (Money’s tight, as you’ve probably heard.)
Oh, and thanks to one and all for hanging in late on a Friday night.
By sc
November 15, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
Since when did “rebuild” become a 4-letter word in Atlanta. Lets face it guys, we aren’t anywhere close to a pennant and one top quality pitcher like Peavy isn’t going to put us there. Basically it would be like subbing Peavy for Hudson last year. Do you really think we would have made the playoffs if Hudson hadn’t gotten hurt? We need to trade whatever old talent we have for prospects and then give this team about 2 years to develop (see Tampa Bay Rays). So, what do we have to trade? Chipper!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 15, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
Think of it like this. Jair Jurrjens, Jo-Jo Reyes, Charlie Morton and Tommy Hanson. They are the core of our young pitchers. Like the young guns of 1990, some will turn out really good. As Smoltz and Glavine did. Others, such as Steve Avery will burn out quick and of course, the Pete Smith’s and Kent Mercker’s will turn out to be fairly pedestrian.
Tim Hudson will be back and hopefully Frank Wren can pick up two or three arms through free agency and trade.
It all starts with pitching, backed up by great defense and then the offense will factor in.
As far as who the Braves might pursue, Zack Greinke’s name has come up. But it’s highly unlikely that Dayton Moore would trade his ace. The Royals seem poised to win in 2009, much like the Tampa Rays did this season.
By Dawg4Life
November 15, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this
Dave, Why doesn’t ATL go out and sign Sheets, Penny and Burnett. Cordero would be a good pen guy. Penny could be a steal. Also do you like Baldelli or Burrell for the OF?
By Dawg4Life
November 15, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
My bad, Mark.
By Emperor Palpatine(fka Hawks Fan 80)
November 15, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
sc I believe the Braves would have contended last season if they hadn’t lost 4/5ths of their rotation along with their 3 primary late-innings guys.
No team is deep enough to survive those types of injuries. But on paper we had the deepest pitching staff in the NL last season.
By Eric from MO
November 15, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
Dawg we have money to spend but not that much. Geeze
By Supes
November 15, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
I guess we’ll be getting our 20 wins from TOMMY HANSON…Charlie Morton, Jo-Jo Reyes, Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton.
Jake Peavy is the best option after C.C. Sabathia on this “market”, and yes I know Jake wasn’t a free agent but I’m speaking top tier starters who are being made available one way or another.
Since the Braves aren’t getting C.C. Sabathia…well you can put your own conclusion here folks.
Bottom Line: Frank Wren doesn’t have the balls to play for right now. He’s playing for 2010, 2011, etc. I guess as a loyal Braves fan, I’ll be rewarded with at least 2 more years of mediocrity, around .500 ball, and seeing the Mets and or Phillies celebrate more NL East Division Titles.
OK Mr Wren, want to prove me wrong, go out and sign C.C. Sabathia! Just prove me wrong, oh no wait, we’ll have Jo-Jo, Morton and Hanson to help us win the NL East and get us into the playoffs.
Braves Fans - Get used to being ridiculed by the Mets and Phillies for the next few years, this is the msg sent from Frank Wren right now. He’s afraid to pull a big time trade. Where is Shuerholtz when you need him!
By brent a.
November 15, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this
I hope some of the people who were blasting Wren for “giving too much”, are choking on their words tonight.
Until a deal is completed, no GM ever gives too much.
By brent a.
November 15, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this
I hope some of the people who were blasting Wren for “giving too much”, are choking on their words tonight.
Until a deal is completed, no GM ever gives too much.
By Mark Bradley
November 15, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
I’d take Burrell over Baldelli for health reasons, but I’ve never been a big Burrell fan, either. I think Penny and Burnett are possibilities — so is Derek Lowe — but I believe the Mike Hampton saga might keep the Braves from pursuing Sheets. (This is just me guessing, mind you.)
As for the bullpen: In Wren’s day-after-the-season media briefing, he stressed that the Braves like the makeup of their relief corps — Gonzalez healthy again, Soriano and Moylan presumably coming back. You’re free to disagree, but that’s what he said.
And I don’t think Frank Wren is afraid to trade. Didn’t he ship Teixeira to Anaheim for Casey Kotchman?
By kirknga
November 15, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this
Supes I would just point out that you don’t who all of the available players are.Frank Wren does, but we don’t.
Believe it or not there were 8 teams who made it to the playoffs this past season and none of them had Jake Peavy on their squads.
The World Champions don’t feature a pitcher the caliber of Jake Peavy. They do have at one very good starter and not much else until you get to a shut down bullpen.
The Phillies are a bright shining example that you don’t have to have a Cy Young winner, or even two very good starters, in order to win.
The Braves can improve and perhaps contend without the services of Jake Peavy.
By Supes
November 15, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
Frank Wren is exactly afraid of trading Tommy Hanson and Jordan S. to the Padres b/c of what might happen.
However, prospects are just that…prospects. As awesome as Tommy Hanson has been in 2008 he hasn’t pitched 1 time in the major leagues. Jordan S. still hasn’t completely turned it around either (his struggles with power numbers, etc after missing the time)
This is Frank Wren’s defining “off -season” It’s too bad that John S. “mortgaged” the farm short term to rent Tex for 1 and half seasons, but tough luck.
It shouldn’t be used as an example of keeping the Braves from acquiring the 2nd best available ace starter in the major leagues (who will make less than C.C Sabathia is going to get and is in the prime of his career). I’m having Greg Maddux flashbacks, only looks like Jake isn’t coming to the ATL to anchor the Braves starting pitching staff for the near future.
By Johnny B
November 15, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this
Would still like to have Peavy but its time to move on.Wren put it out there and if what we’re offering isn’t good enough then so be it.I think Wren did the smart and shrewd thing.
What do you guys think about Juan Rivera from the Angles as a FA pick-up? 30 years old, primarily played RF,lifetime .284 hitter in his last full season (2006) had 30+ homers and will get around 2 mil+…Just a thought.
By kirknga
November 15, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this
Rivera would be an improvement over last season’s RF production, but there are other good candidates. I’m not sure he won’t eventually resign with the Angels anyway.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this
Taco Bell 99 cent menu. (Money’s tight, as you’ve probably heard.) MB
Yep i just finished my taco bell(no other option, Not cooking). Lunch time for the Owl…
Mark, Tough times? Man I would love to have your Job. What you don’t buy CD’s like DOB?
Kirknga
Kirk my man, take all the Hanson expectation you have out the door. Like I said he just finished single A level. He is ahead of schedule but even a single win would be a bonus for 2009. Hanson has finally hit top 20 prospects in entire MILB!! Heyward near top ten. Our future is growing very nicely but no reason to push them.
DONT FULLY GIVE UP ON PEAVY JUST YET! THIS COULD BE A WREN SETUP
but clearly, we are ready to be a factor in the free agency………
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this
RE: Hanson “He’s something I’ve never seen before. Just from my experience last spring training, catching guys like Tim Hudson, John Smoltz — he’s right there with them, in my opinion.” Tyler Flowers
By kirknga
November 15, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this
Nocturnal Owl, I’m having a hard time dialing back the expectations for Hanson. I mean if this guy is so special that you decide to give up your very good major league SS instead then I expect to be wowed..now!
I mean we’re told he has a maturity and mental makeup that are as noticeable as his four pitches so I’m not seeing why we can’t gave a look sooner rather than later.
If he’s still a season two away then I’m thinking he might might not be a lock for the major leagues and you trade him for an ace.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this
then I expect to be wowed..now
What AZ league hasn’t..read DOB’s article on Hanson.
No, don’t trade away Hanson since he might be two years away. Our team is built for the future and (at this time) we shouldn’t kill our future to help this bad team.
Hanson will come up when he’s ready and no other route is an option at this time. Trading him would be a mistake like Detroit trading John Smoltz.
By Johnny B
November 15, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this
Actually I was thinking of Rivera as a possible LF candidate. I think you still gotta give Frenchy the chance to come back and redeem himself.If he can make the adjustments and find some plate discipline he still can be good…It remains to be seen.
Over on the Angels site the beat writer says they don’t deem him a “priority”. Also saying he deserves a chance to play everyday. With them not picking up the option on the other guy he may be a priority now.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 2:07 AM | Link to this
kirknga no rebuttal? anyone here? its only 2AM I’m lonely!!
By Ronald Millsaps
November 15, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this
Let’s face it, folks: The Padres aren’t as eager to trade Peavy as a lot of bloggers are to see him arrive. It’s still November; Opening Day is almost half a year away, and they know that the Braves are anxious to get him. Do you think they’re going to ink a deal immediately when they could take their time—which they have plenty of—and see if the Braves would reconsider trading Hanson?
Honestly, I’d forget the Peavy deal. I like our squad for the most part and now would pursue Adam Dunn and/or Rafael Furcal.
What about our pitching? Jorge Campillo and Jair Jurrjens will be fine in ‘09. I’d re-sign Mike Hampton, which shouldn’t be hard (the Yankees are looking elsewhere), and go with Tom Glavine and John Smoltz. (My reverse order isn’t a talent implication.) There also are Charlie Morton and Jo-Jo Reyes to consider, and I think Morton is up for an improved ‘09; Reyes I’m not so sure about. The talent is there, but he needs to be more respectful of Cooperstown-bound individuals, especially when they’re teammates.
We don’t have to have Peavy. We already have several guys who can pitch fairly well. Heck, Hanson might make the Opening Day rotation.
Yunel Escobar is one of the finest shortstops in the game and a great “two” hitter. I really, really didn’t like the idea of losing him and am glad to see that we probably won’t be.
Now, let’s not trade Kelly Johnson, either. We don’t need Ryan Ludwick. We really don’t. If anything, let’s use the money we have to re-sign our guys (Smoltz, Hampton, Glavine), perhaps A.J. Burnett, Adam Dunn, and Juan Cruz. (Cruz could help us out in the bullpen or even in the rotation.)
Ownership needs to step it up and commit to winning. I’m tired of this blamed stinginess. Its fall over the last decade has been similar to, well, that of TBS. (I know Time Warner doesn’t own the team anymore, but point taken, er, given.)
By Ronald Millsaps
November 15, 2008 2:33 AM | Link to this
correction: “very well”, not “fairly well”
I’m telling you; get Adam Dunn. He’d be a lineup-changer.
If we do, I’d go…
Josh Anderson—CF; Yunel Escobar—SS; Chipper Jones—3B; Adam Dunn—LF; Brian McCann—C; Jeff Francoeur—RF; Casey Kotchman/Martin Prado—1B; Kelly Johnson—2B (the greatest “eight” hitter of all time).
There’s also the possibility that Dunn would need to play first. Fine; move Prado to second and Johnson to left.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this
Ronald Millsaps I have to agree with you. Plus I agree that Ludwick will not be the answer. I’m expecting some spending from Liberty Media this winter. We need to get back to the old Braves.
We have a nice core and a positive future. If we add solid players (2 starters and OF) we should be improving team and ready to assault N.L. East come 2010-2011.
Nice post bro.
By Armond Hill
November 15, 2008 2:50 AM | Link to this
Sorry to disagree but…Peavy (when healthy) is THE most dominant arm in the game. And costing “only” seven digits per year over 4, he is also the steal of the game. Not saying the Braves should throw in Hanson, but everybody else is fair game. Peavy is THE biggest name on the trading blocks. You really don’t expect the Pads to take garbage for him do you?. With Peavy and Lowe or Penny or Burnett or Sheets at the top of the rotation we’ve got a chance reguardless of what the O does. Give em 5 sans Hanson. Sign another ace and go from there.
By Ronald Millsaps
November 15, 2008 2:51 AM | Link to this
If we can sign a Cruz, Dempster, Burnett, etc., that might not be a bad move. I’ve considered acquiring Furcal, moving Escobar to second, and Johnson to left, but if we keep Escobar, I wouldn’t pursue Furcal.
Mainly, I’d re-sign our guys, then Dunn and Cruz. Quietly, Cruz would be a huge addition to our pitching staff.
Back to Johnson, we don’t need him to hit as many homers as Ludwick did this year. Turner Field isn’t conducive to home runs, like a lot of parks are, but Johnson exploits its dimensions perfectly for doubles and triples.
Had Johnson been batting lower in the order consistently and not getting so many days off, he might’ve hit 24 over the fence last season.
Another possibility before I log out:
Rotation (before Hudson’s hopeful return):
Tom Glavine Mike Hampton Jorge Campillo Jair Jurrjens Juan Cruz
Top four relievers: Peter Moylan, Rafael Soriano, Mike Gonzalez, John Smoltz.
Long relief: Charlie Morton, Jeff Bennett
By Ken Stallings
November 15, 2008 4:53 AM | Link to this
The Padres should be real careful here. Baseball is a small community and it doesn’t take long to earn a reputation as a GM who doesn’t enter trade talks in good faith. The Padres strung the Braves along, wanting a player that the Braves staff said immediately was firmly off the trade market under any circumstances.
GM’s are wise when they respect what’s said and treat the information as though it came from an honorable source who meant it!
The Padres are not negotiating from a position of strength. It is widely known that the owner needs to slash payroll. Worse, Kevin Towers has already publicly thrown Peavy under the bus, saying his trade “has already left the station.” Towers has burned the bridge with his club’s best pitcher. Now, he has vastly more limited options to trade him.
The winner in all this may be the Cubs, who suddenly don’t have to enrich their trade offer one bit and could, in fact, reduce it. Maybe the Padres can mend fences with Peavy, or maybe they cannot. But the demand to slash payroll seems in force at all costs.
Towers owed the Braves a more timely answer. This deal should have concluded last week. If the Padres needed Hanson and no one else, then they should have said so up front. When the Braves’ Wren said Hanson was off limits, Towers should have said, “Thanks, but we don’t have the basis of a trade here.”
That’s how you preserve your honor in trade talks.
Ultimately, Wren proved he’s a wise GM. It’s more often the trade you don’t make that defines your career for the best. Hanson by all accounts seems another Jake Peavy within a year. There’s a possibility we may see him in Atlanta by end of the upcoming season.
You don’t trade that away. You grow that talent and keep it your own.
By braves11p4p
November 15, 2008 5:48 AM | Link to this
By the end of the year???
Hanson will most certainly make the team out of spring training.
Nocturnal Owl:”Like I said he just finished single A level” —-Excuse me but he pitched most of last season at AA and dominated in the process, the kid is ready for the major NOW.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this
don’t use the word certain with a 22y old. He could but not certain.
By richbrave
November 15, 2008 7:45 AM | Link to this
PLOY. WREN can buy TAZAWA, HAMPTON, BURNETT and OHMAN for $$$$ not players and have SMOLTZ, JUIRJENS, HUDSON, CAMPILLO, BOYER, REYES, PARR, BENNETT, REYES, GONZALEZ and SORIANO under contract. NO farm prospects lost. Therefore, the PEAVY deal can be revisited if that eventuality arises.
By richbrave
November 15, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this
Oops. Insert MORTON for one REYES in the previous post.
By Mark Bradley
November 15, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this
Oh, I buy CDs. Just not as many as I did when I was a young man. In fact, I bought “High School Musical 3” this week.
I have an 11-year-old daughter.
By Mark Bradley
November 15, 2008 8:02 AM | Link to this
Full disclosure: I also bought a live album by that up-and-coming young group, the Doors.
By Jim
November 15, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this
Happy that Wren is not going to give away the store to get Jake. Saw in a MLB blog that MN is willing to part with young pitching talent for Escobar. Have you heard anything is this direction?
By Mike
November 15, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this
I’m glad the braves backed off the trade i have watched the Rome braves for 3 years now the braves have some young talent. Its time to do like marlins do call them up let them learn on the job. Bobby don’t like having to any young player because he to old to develope them . It time to make changes lets start with a old manager .
By h_charles
November 15, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this
All very good points, but the real question is “why haven’t the Braves developed a Hansen before now?”
The last #1 this organziation developed was Jason Schmidt. That is FAR too long.
For an organization that prides itself on its farm system, the lack of pitching development is sad.
Morton and Reyes will never be that. The difference between those 2 and Hamels is at this stage is light years. I’d deal both in a heartbeat.
By phattso
November 15, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
What’s with the infatuation with Burnett? WHEN he’s healthy, sure he’s a very good pitcher. BUT, he ALWAYS seems to get hurt. If anyone would be another Hampton, it would be him. I can see Lowe and possibly even Dempster.
I’d stay VERY far away from Burnett…
By GilGarrido
November 15, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
Mr. Bradley, John Smoltz is not going to the Hall of Fame.
By The Fight Realtor
November 15, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
As usual, Mark, perception and good writing equals a fine column.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
Ah! I see some of the Gang hung out on here last night!
Nocturnal Owl—
Hmm…Taco Bell…I love that place! Is that considered “fast food”? if so, that’s my favorite fast food restaurant.
By Mark Bradley
November 15, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Thanks, Fight Realtor.
And to Gil Garrido: Sure he is.
By Lew
November 15, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Nocturnal-DOB said he had weekend plans. He needs a break from the Denizens, IMO.
What kicks me is that all I’ve heard for the past three years is how the Braves can’t develop pitching and then they go and trade all their good young pitchers. Jason Schmidt (just what happened to him?) and Adam Wainwright are consistently mentioned (as for Mark Harrison, wait until he actually achieves something before you add him to the quite small list).
We finally have a kid that looks to have stud potential (the Padres would have done the Peavy deal in a heartbeat were he included) and all I’m hearing is that he will suck. Get real people. You can’t have it both ways. This kid is the real deal and y’all will be very happy we kept him. Yes, it may take a couple of years and patience may be necessary, but he will be a stud for years to come.
I realize that counseling patience may be a meaningless gesture, but you need to get over the half hour sitcom solution that you usually indulge in. Patience.
By Lew
November 15, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Mark-If you like the Doors you can’t be half bad. Absolutely Live is one of the greatest live albums of all time. Wish I could have seen them back in The Day. Jim Morrison was definitely one of a kind.
By fieldofdreams
November 15, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
The huge sigh of relief I hear is coming from the Phillies, Mets, and Nationals front offices. We finished 20 games out last year, for god’s sake. Without new pitching we’re gonna stink again. Got news for you: John Smolt-zeus will NOT recover from this surgery, to fire his lightning bolts, no matter how valiantly he tries, or how loyal he is to the Braves. Don’t count on him. And we can’t really be thinking of Hampton and Glavine as part of this rotation. If Wren doesn’t call San Diego and offer Hanson, Escobar and Hernandez, and Mark Bradley, I will.
By Lew
November 15, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Fieldofdreams-There’s more chance of them offering YOU than that package.
By Bama1
November 15, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Thanks Mark for info and blog. What about a ESCO and Jo JO trade to Blue Jays for Rio and Eckstein. We get lead-off hitter win speed and average plus power. Eckstein can play SS and they get SS plus the pitching they want. I’m not a GM just like to play the game. Go Braves! We could even throw in another OF. Jones , Blanco etc.
By Mark Bradley
November 15, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
I’m surprised so many folks seemed to have soured on Yunel Escobar so quickly, and apparently the Braves’ brass is among that number.
By Brian
November 15, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
If Burnett is Wren’s answer for an ace, well than we’re in trouble. He’s got the stuff but there is no doubt in my mind that he’ll be DL’d within a couple of months! I can see why he’d want to play for Cox. Bobby will treat Burnett’s 20 starts a year like a 35 start year. And he knows it!!
Bradley- Man, just take over O’Brien’s place! That guy is a major butt-hole! He’s seems pretty smart but he’s very degrading to people who don’t agree with him or his hippy, liberal style music! Obviously, I’m one of them!
By fieldofdreams
November 15, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
Landing Peavy helps land other talented players to Atlanta. If Chipper Jones likes Peavy, I do too. Maybe Chipper should play third and be the GM. For a guy who never went to college, Chipper is a baseball genius. This team will finish in the cellar without an influx of new pitching. Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, even Hudson, their arms are as wasted as Jim Morrison was, every day of his life. Without new pitching the Braves will suck as bad as Doors music. Maybe worse. And it won’t be Chipper’s fault. Or mine.
By Ken Stallings
November 15, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Amazing! Just hours after posting my previous comment I just read an ESPN story where Trevor Hoffman unloaded on Kevin Towers and the rest of the Padres staff. As Hoffman related, after 16 years with the Padres as the best reliever in baseball over all those years, Towers refused to meet with Hoffman.
Instead, Towers told him over the phone they withdrew their insulting offer and did not want him on the club any longer! Worse, they invented a cover story attempting to blame it on Hoffman, saying they withdrew the offer because it had been discussed in the media! The offer was a near 50% pay cut!
Contrast that with the classy face-to-face meeting Kerry Wood had with the Cubs staff where they told him they were not going to extend an offer to him, and told him early so he had plenty of time for his agent to negotiate a fair market deal with another club.
As I wrote, baseball is a small community. Classless people don’t last long in this sport. Free agents don’t negotiate contracts with organizations that throw players under the bus. Kevin Towers is showing the world he has no integrity.
He won’t last much longer.
By Brian
November 15, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
I would really like seeing Escobar in a trade for Grienke. Of course, trade him after you gauge what kind of contract Furcal/Boras are looking at. If Wren feels like Furcal is worth it (he is), I’d make an offer. He’s a lot of what is missing in our lineup these days. Escobar is good, but who else thinks he’ll still be traded? I do! I’m not one who is just now saying Escobar will be traded, I’ve thought that all year. Bad attitudes don’t last in ATL. That said, I could live with Burnett, Grienke, Jurrjens at the top. Furcal is really that important to a lineup and the overall team!
I like Dye too. Bad defense? Who cares if it’s just average because Dunn/Burrell/Ibanez and even Ordonez aren’t that great out there either. Dye probably would cost us Reyes and a guy like Flowers. White Sox seem pretty aggressive in trading him and others.
By Bama1
November 15, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
Mark, Esco has a attitude problem, gets mad to quick and keeps umps mad at him and Braves.
fieldofdreams, Agree about Chipper being a baseball genius. The man knows his Baseball and I would love to see him take Bobby”s job as Mgr. I love to hear him talk baseball, and if he wants Burnett or who every I would agree.The Old Arms need to go except Smoltz and he should be the pitching coach. Now to the Doors…one word* GREAT!!!!!*
By Steve from OH
November 15, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Lew, I agree w/your 11:49. Folks, Tommy Hanson is going nowhere and for good reason. He has good stuff, great stats, fantastic peripherals, and excellent intangibles (for those of you who are into that kind of thing) such as confidence and presence on the mound. Plus, he’s under team control for six seasons, three of which are at league minimum. Sure as heck beats Peavy’s 15MM+ for the next 5.
Coach, I’d like to see the Braves stick with Morton, JJ, and Hanson. I think JoJo is expendable and hopefully he can be packaged for a good LF. I am more confident than ever that Escobar and the top prospects won’t be dealt. I really hope KJ doesn’t go, either: he’s probably our 3rd best hitter as the roster currently stands. We’re going to need every offensive piece we can get. Quite frankly, I’d like to see Frank Wren sign one or two starting pitchers, sign Tazawa, and push for Ludwick or Ankiel while keeping our roster intact. Hopefully we’ll be able to sell them on JoJo/Redmond/Diamond/Medlen/BJones/Prado.
Adding a LF to our current roster makes our lineup at least pretty good, if not better if we see improvement from Francoeur. The bullpen looks good, and the rotation has potential with some high upside young starters like Jurrjens, Hanson, and Morton. Add a Derek Lowe type starter to anchor the rotation and re-sign Mike Hampton, and I think we’ve got a workable rotation. Plus, we’ve kept all of our good trade pieces in place, so if we need to make a mid-season deal for a SP if we’re in contention we can do so.
Mark Bradley:
Scott Burnside has an excellent article on the Melrose firing on the ESPN NHL homepage. I personally think the whole thing was ridiculous. I mean, you give the guy 16 games to prove himself? Come on. At least my Red Wings are still goin’ strong.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 15, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Henry Schulman (courtesy of MLBTraderumors.com) thinks Furcal is seeking for a 4yr deal at around $10 mill per.
By justafan
November 15, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Auburn 6 UGA 0 starting 2nd
By Brian
November 15, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Jason- That deal sounds about right for Furcal. Say we get Burnett($16 Mill.) Furcal($10 Mill.) Dye($10 Mill.) that would leave enough $ to pick up Grienke’s deal and maybe even resign Ohman.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
Lew Thank you for the DOB update. I can understand it, is off season after all. Good for DOB.
Lew, I agree Hanson, he is exciting news that will not go to another team. What is your expectations? Do you think he will slip right in the 09 plans?
McFann Taco bell your favorite? It is tasty but not great quality McFann, but thenn again who cares at that time of night LOL. Any McCann expectations for 09? I just love our allstar catcher. He was helping Alpharetta kids the other day. Saw pictures and he looks slim.
By Bama1
November 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
Brian, who you going to trade for Grienke?
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Brian, You were kidding about DOB right?
I know he VORPs you at times for racial comments but I can understand DOB on that.. We love DOB!!!
(and mark) LOL
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 15, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
To be honest, I actually agreed with Lew and thought Furcal would be seeking at least the same annual salary of his last contract.
But, I don’t think I would include Escobar in a trade for Greinke to be honest. I know Bill Shanks has a good article over at scouts.com about going after Greinke, and I wouldn’t be opposed, but I also wouldn’t give up Escobar unless we were getting a known #1. Do I think Greinke has a shot…yes, a darn good one! But, I would package a deal around others first.
It will be interesting to see if FW truly has a couple of other trade discussions going on as he told SportsLine. I am also fairly annoyed with Peavy’s agent…mouthing a little about FW and the Braves…he should check his man-crush on Towers at the door and realize it was the Padres sending mixed signals!!
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Mark, We are not too sour on Yunel. He was the centerpiece to get an ace. We accepted that. Yunel has a bright future and I’d be more than happy to keep him but rather have Peavy.
Mark, I do have to say your blog posts comments way quicker than DOB’s. The max time is about 2 min. Wonder if DOB’s is different to keep his blog under control. We probably would fill his up with your setup…
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Nocturnal Owl—
Yeah, Taco Bell’s not the best quality, but I’ll take it over Burger King any day of the week. To be honest, though, I like the canned refried beans (Old El Paso brand) better for burritos…We have that for lunch just about every Friday.
I love our All-Star catcher, too (in case you had any doubts, now we’ve cleared that up, LOL). I really liked those photos of him with the kids! (Lucky kids, too, doggone it.)
He’s looking good alright (he’s got his hair back, too ; ) ). An article I read on the “Official Site” says he’s gone from 248 to 228 pounds. That’s some kinda program! Course, he’s been on it since the season ended. (Ms. Rogers’ article mentioned that he had to give up his burritos…how sad.)
My big expectation for ‘09 is better defense. I’m actually kinda looking forward to it for a change. He said he’ll be taking it more seriously this off season—that he’ll work on the D as much as the O.
As always, I have high expectations for his hitting—ready to see 48 doubles and let the record be his! And two triples, of course…
By Bama1
November 15, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
Noctumal Owl, it took 8 to 12 minutes yesterday to post on DOB. I finally said to h!!! with it.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
N Owl—
This blog does post things really fast! Weird…
Wonder if DOB’s is different to keep his blog under control. We probably would fill his up with your setup…
Haha! Probably! We’d blow up a lot more Blogs!
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
McFann
Sounds good on McCann. I remember you saying before how your not expecting an improvement on his D.
20 pounds in month and half? Wow, nice program. At this rate we might confuse Frenchy with McCann come March! LOL
I expect another Allstar with no problems in 09. I really want him reach the 30HR level.
He cann do it, I believe.
By Brian
November 15, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Bama 1- Does a Escobar/Medlin/Boyer for Grienke and one of their LH releivers sound fair? I would think Morton in that deal is too much because Escobar is the real deal. I realize the Royals would want pitching in return but they are the Royals, so…
Noc.Owl- No, I’m not kidding and I made a silly comment about Rollins that I appologized for. It was one of those, Lets all bash the Phillies times on the blog. I’m telling you, he was mad because I called our new president arrogant when a couple of others dissed on McCain. He deleted mine. I know it’s all silly and old.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
And two triples, of course… :)
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
Brian I like reading your posts, I think we are peers…
Don’t get yourself banned, it’s not worth it! I understand you’re position….
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
N Owl I remember you saying before how your not expecting an improvement on his D.
Did I say I’m not expecting improvement one time? Huh…how rude of me…That musta been before he lost weight.
At this rate we might confuse Frenchy with McCann come March!
Haha…Not me!
Maybe this will be the year he finally starts in the ASG! Wouldn’t that be something? It would really help if FW signs that Japanese pitcher…then we’d have the Japanese vote!
I’d love to see 30 homers, too! He was on pace for that in ‘08, but then September came, and he didn’t hit any more homers.
Two triples! Oh yeah, it’s happening! You read it here (well, DOB’s Blog, too) first!
; )
By Lew
November 15, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Nocturnal-Yes, I believe Hanson cracks the rotation in 09. Actually, it would not surprise me in the least if he starts the season as the number five starter-especially if the pitching acquisition plans don’t go as well as expected.
I’ll also go out on a limb and say that I have little doubt that Francoeur will have an excellent comeback season. He identified the main problem -the extra bulk he put on. It bound up his swing, making him lunge horribly at the ball, destroying his center of balance and the added weight made him slow in the field. He realized it and lost a good bit of the weight at the end of the season.
The Kid is highly motivated for another season like last to never happen again. I’ve read 3 or 4 interviews with him and he is determined that this free fall ends immediately. Now no one is ever going to claim he will become a selective hitter, a la Chipper Jones, but consider how often he comes up with runners on-in particular, with the sacks loaded (like Jim Morrison). Had he succeeded in just 25% more of those situations, a fairly easily attainable number, what would his production have risen to? Not quite time to give up on Frenchy. 24 year old kids not having it completely together? Nah. Really?
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
McFann
Yes you told me, about his D expectations. It was less than a month ago.
2 triples was my bold prediction..hehe
Here is another bold prediction. He will start the 09 allstar game.
I’m ready for McCann to get a solid double in the opener against the Champs and have Mac slide hard into 2nd base (victorino)
Mark, got any baseball news? It is the start of FA period after all!! Do you talk to Wren at all? Or i that DOB only?
I …Need…action….(or maybe sleep)
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
*Buster Olney writes that the Braves are still the best fit for Jake Peavy, even if they are apparently moving on for the time being. Olney argues that “both sides need this trade.”
The Braves will not bid on C.C. Sabathia, and Olney thinks they’ll have a tough time signing A.J. Burnett.
If the Braves can’t sign Burnett, Olney suggests Jon Garland, Oliver Perez and Ryan Dempster as alternatives.
The Braves have already had preliminary discussions with Burnett’s agent, Darek Brauneker* MLB TR
By Couch Tater
November 15, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
You can’t have it both ways…
Lew, I agree. It’s the folks who want someone who plays with fire and passion, but think Yunel is a hotdog? Huh? People are strange when you are a stranger.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
N Owl—
OK, I’ll have to go back and find that sometime. I do remember that the two triples was yours. : )
That solid double sounds good to me! Only Utley’s the guy at second for the Fills. But Mac cann slide into him—that’d be fine! Utley’s the idiot who threw his elbow into Mac’s head a few innings before Mac got Victorinoed. I’ve watched the replay with Utley—that one was dirty! But Chase was out! Haha!
BMac will start the ‘09 All-Star Game if it’s the la—oh dear…I mean…he’ll start that game if I have anything to do with it! (And I will. Heck, I voted at least 100 times in ‘08…I cheated, I know. But he deserved it!)
Back to that double in the opener for a sec…He could hit the ball to center just outta the reach of the Reaper. But the Reaper gets it quickly, thinking he cann nail Mac at second…but no! Mac just kinda knocks Utley down. Doesn’t hurt him badly (not like what happened with O. Hudson…), but he’s safe! And look at that: The Braves are up 3-0!
Ah…if only…
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
Yankees already offered 140M richest pitcher contract ever-on their first bid YUCK
Lew I think you’re on to something with Frenchy. He will only improve and should not trade at his all time low value. I cann see a Grienke-Frenchy talk buzz but nothing significant!
5th starter? I just hope we don’t rush him if he is not ready. But all signs point to YES!!!! What an exciting season if Hanson beats out the odds in spring….
By Lou Vales
November 15, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Dear Mark, Would you admit your story might have had more credibility if you and rest of the AJC had not been on a Peavy Watch that resembled interest in the first moon walk?? Just once!!! I would appreciate it if you would write a column like this before the events dictate it.
By the way, Adam James Burnett has NEVER won a truly MEANINGFUL game in his career. Check with some Toronto beat writers if you don’t believe me. Big Game—-Bye Bye AJ!!! And he is OVERDUE to breakdown AGAIN. The man will NEVER be confused with Hoss Radbourne. Adam has the chance to make Mike Hampton look like Warren Spahn when it comes to durability.
AJ is a dog!!!
By Brian
November 15, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Couch Tater- Nobody wants Yunel traded, it’s just that Bobby Cox is known for being a patient man except when it comes to on the field tantrums. I said I would like to see him traded because I beleive it’s only a matter of time before it happens anyways. So why not package him for a guy like Grienke now?
Yep, Onley is right about Burnett! The Orioles are more desperate than us and the Yank$ owner is loose in the head! I feel sorry for Wren because this man has done almost EVERYTHING right and got green poopy in return!! I don’t care for Ted Turner, but if he comes back…
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
McFannOOOPs- I totally forgot where the reaper plays at!
By Jake
November 15, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
I’m surprised so many folks seemed to have soured on Yunel Escobar so quickly, and apparently the Braves’ brass is among that number
Well let me be one of the ones to say that I sure haven’t and I hope we don’t trade him. The kid has major upside and the game seems to come so natural to him. I hope he stays a Brave for a long time. I don’t understand why they have soured. They knew he had some attitude problems in the minors but I thought they said that he had gotten better? Has something happened that you could let the fans know about?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
N Owl—
That’s OK! I get guys positions mixed up myself sometimes.
By Efrim
November 15, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
I think their are probably some who still think this deal is going to happen, but I honestly don’t. I don’t think Towers is going to fold and take what the Braves have offered and I don’t think Wren is going to add another piece to the trade.
Hopefully the Braves focus on free agents right now……not trading from the farm, or trading one of our middle infielders. Personally, I don’t think Martin Prado is an everyday second baseman. And it weakens our bench considerably if we deal Johnson because Prado would have to step in for him. I know the Braves don’t like any of the free agent OF options, but that doesn’t mean they need to deal Kelly Johnson for Ryan Ludwick. I think the Cardinals would love it if the Braves made that offer.
By Couch Tater
November 15, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
I don’t think that Towers is going to fold…
Me either,Efrim. I don’t think he sees the Padres in his future, Towers is looking to prove his worth as a tough negotiator for his next job.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 15, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
I actually have a bad feeling about this offseason…with a lot of the high market teams needing pitching, the Yankees determined to spend whatever takes, and the fact that we don’t have an abundance of TOP prospects to trade (really, really hate the Tex trade), FW’s task is an extremely difficult one. Lowe is going to go to Boston, CC to the Skanks, AJ to probably the Yanks (maybe Orioles), and Dempster back to the Cubs.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 15, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
I can tell you for sure that Atlanta has no interest in Oliver Perez. That kid is way overrated.
Pitchers such as Lowe, Dempster and Garland make sense. I hope the Braves sign Junichi Tazawa, those Japanese pitchers are usually a sound investment.
Now that the Peavy trade talks have ended, I have to wonder how bad the fallout will be? Yunel Escobar has to be wondering if the Braves even want him anymore.
Did Ryan Ludwick have a career season or is he just now hitting his stride? Nelson Cruz is the real sleeper. The question is, would the Rangers trade him? My short list of corner outfielders: Milton Bradley, Juan Rivera and Raul Ibanez.
Dave Dombrowski: Tigers are not shopping Magglio Ordonez.
DUH! I tried to tell everybody that three weeks ago.
By Mark Bradley
November 15, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
It’s kind of hard to write a column about what happened without, er, knowing what happened. I mean, if the Padres had traded Jake Peavy to the Braves for Corky Miller, I’d have said hooray for the Bravos. And I suspect you would have, too.
By Mark Bradley
November 15, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
I’ve noticed that the posts on my little blog — I have my own, as you probably know — do seem to be showing up faster. And I have no idea why.
By skull
November 15, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
I’ve noticed that the posts on my little blog — I have my own, as you probably know — do seem to be showing up faster. And I have no idea why.Mark Bradley
I was just wondering the same thing myself. Do we get a hint to help us find the answer?
Fallout concerning Yunel? From reading a couple of other sites it appears BC has soured on him (attitude?).
I look for FW to try to include him in other trades if that’s so.
Possible targets I’ve read are Baker (Twins) & Greinke. Is this possibly true?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 15, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
skull, where have you read that? I mean…that they have interest and not someone saying that they should?
By Mark Bradley
November 15, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
If I knew a short cut, I’d tell you. But I don’t. Sorry.
Maybe esteemed colleague Mike Knobler does. He told me last night he’d written his own computer program to measure his stories, and I’d venture he’s the only sports writer in the world who knows how to write computer programs.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
JasonInFL
With Yunel’s name being surfaced in Peavy trade, I remember reading on MLB TR (while ago) that Cards, Twins, and Padres want Yunel.
Again that was a month ago…no specific talks however….
By Couch Tater
November 15, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Havad.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 15, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
I seriously doubt that Zach Greinke would be traded. The Royals look like they are poised to win. The Royals’ payroll figures to inch up this winter from $58.2 million to a little more than $60 million. Dayton Moore acknowledges he has the flexibility from owner David Glass to approach $70 million but cautions he is unlikely to do so — at least not right away.
That said, with the financial uncertainty that hangs over the whole state of the American Economy, it’s difficult to predict which baseball teams will hold the line and of whom will spend like crazy ( The Yankees).
By BravesFanChris24
November 15, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
This is just me speculating here.
How about….
Yunel Escobar & Small Package Of Prospects (maybe like Morton or Jo Jo with some position players not named Heyward/Freeman/Ect…)
For
One Of Twins Younger Pitchers & Delmon Young
Good idea?
By skull
November 15, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
I seriously doubt that Zach Greinke would be traded. Coach
Agreed w/you until this week, he was untouchable but D. Moore said he might be available if he refused to sign long term. Reports earlier this week were that Greinke REFUSED KC’s offer of a new contract. Does that make him available?
By BravesFanChris24
November 15, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
Greinke would be a nice addition. The possibilities are now more intriguing and could go any way and I think it will be for the betterment of the club.
By Tomas
November 15, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
I agree with Wren. Braves offer was more than good enough. I really wanted Peavy but they can’t stop their other plans. I hope they get AJ Burnett he’d be great. I don’t really think they can get two of the Dempster/Lowe/Burnett combo so I think thay should trade for a pitcher.
Matt Cain has been mention as a possible target but giants gm has said he won’t trade him. Zack Greinke would be offered a contract extension lets hope he doesn’t agree and they start shopping him. Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo, Ian Snell, Javier Vazques, Gil Meche, Scott Baker, and Francisco Liriano are other aceptable choices.
Matt Cain, Zack Greinke, Francisco Liriano, and maybe Scott Baker will be nearly impossible to trade for, because of their young age, talent, and affordability.
Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo, Ian Snell, Javier Vazques, and Gil Meche might be easier to obtain, because of their contracts and in some cases they’re coming off a bad year.
Aaron Harang 30, 4.78ERA 6-17, horrible year but you have to consider he pitches in cincinnati, and has had three very good years in a row before this one.
Bronson Arroyo 31, 4.77ERA 15-11, horrible abismal first half an ERA close to 6, but he turned it around and was fantastic in the second half plus he’s coming off two good years in a row in cincinnati.
Ian Snell 27, 5.42ERA 7-12, abismal year, but still he has awesome stuff, and ended the year on a high note. Before this year he had one good year. He is a pretty big risk but he has a lot of potential.
Javier Vazquez 32, 4.67ERA 12-16, below average year, actually his last three games made his ERA go up like a bomb, from 4.13 to 4.67. I think the whitesox want to trade him, and he might be a good fit for #3.
Zack Greinke 25, 3.47 ERA 13-10, good year, let’s just hope he rejects a contract extension and dayton Moore decides to trade him.
Gil Meche 30, 3.98ERA, 14-11, above average year. He sign for 10 mill/per year, I figure if they sign Greinke to an extension they might have to trade Meche, and he’d be a good fit for #2, #3.
Francisco Liriano 25, 3.91ERA, 6-4, above average year. After he was called from the minors he was nearly unhittable. He was kind of upset of being demoted, and -i hear the twins have interest in Yunel, Liriano would be great but I think they wouln’t trade him.
Scott Baker 27, 3.45ERA, 11-4, good season. If they’re not willing to trade Liriano maybe they’d be more willing to trade Baker.
Edwin Jackson 25, 4.42 ERA, 14-11, bad season. With David Price in next years rotation, Jackson is on the block. He has control issues but good potential. He’d be a better option than Garland.
Matt Cain 24, 3.76 ERA, 8-14, good season. The Giants need a SS, and a 2B, and a lot of hitting. The deal would need to look very lucrative for the giants to agree to part terms with cain.
One of them along with Dempster/Lowe/Burnett would be a succesful offseason in my point of view.
By Mike
November 15, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
Peavy is the best pitcher in baseball today. He has the skills to lead our Braves for the next 7-8 years. More significantly, he has an undeniable intensity and commitment which will enhance the success of the entire team. He led the Padres to the playoffs in 3 of the last 4 years, despite the Pads general overall lack of talent. The Padres are about to make an epic mistake in losing him. Lets not get shortsighted and lose this opportunity by choosing potential over production. Get the deal done before the Yankees swoop in!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 15, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Chris, the Twins are in the market for an infielder or two (Casey Blake). They are not interested in trading any of their young pitchers as they pretty much have a set rotation. Not to mention the modern day Ebenezer Scrooge (Carl Pohlad) who owns the Twins. By the way, he is the richest owner in baseball.
Those Twins have a solid, young talented bunch of starting pitchers who are dirt cheap. Sort of like what the Braves wish they had. Maybe there is a reason why their Scrooge owner is way ahead in talent and cash, You think? Not to mention the awesome organizational makeup that the Twins front office, coaches, players and minor league teams represent from top to bottom. Did I mention Target Field which scheduled to be ready for opening day 2010.
By J.L.
November 15, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this
Morton could still end up being a 2or 3 type pitcher,he only had part of a year JJ looks like the real deal. Hanson could make the jump to the big club,and JoJo who knows ? but the talent is there. Thats four young pitchers,but it could happen.I saw it happen with Estrada,Barber,Palmer and Mc Nally,they also had some old timer named Pappas, I think he was 28.
By BravesFanChris24
November 15, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Coach
Wasn’t thinking like that at all. It would be nice to try and get one of them though. Like you said, probably not likely to happen because of those reasons.
I think any trades for pitchers should be for young guys with upside or who has a chance to be big like a Greinke or Cain (although they’ll be hard to try to get).
Either way, I’m more excited now than I was during the whole Peavy saga (which in my opinion, may not be quite over just yet).
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
Stop this Yunel trade non sense! If it has Peavy in volved than fine. Grienke for Yunel? Please..
Yunel is a special talent for cheap, why in the world would you TRY trading him? I find no answer good enough.
Again, he was the Centerpiece of a deal involving an ace that won a CY awar in 07. Don’t give his record from this year. Dude pitched his heart for a lost team. Grienke and most others are not Peavy.
I refuse to trade Yunel. period
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 15, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Mike, Jake Peavy isn’t the best pitcher in baseball and you are right, Matt Cain is untouchable. But I do think that Edwin Jackson is available for the right price. I have no idea if the Reds are willing to trade pitching.
By skull
November 15, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
JasonInFL (formerly ME)
Sorry for delay in answering, went for a sandwhich after posting, then saw Coach’s post upon returning, now yours.
First let me ask if you noticed the ? mark after my statement, meaning that even though I remember reading this awhile back I was wondering if it’s true.
Nocturnal Owl (N Nine) (thank you sir),posted where I also saw some of it.
It’s been at least 2-3 weeks since I saw this, it came after the initial reports (I believe) that the Peavy talks were stalling.
Since the end of the season I easily read over a thousand rumors etc. I’ve been going to:
Yahoo, mlbtr., mlb.com, mlbtraderumors, prosportsdaily, san diego papers, chicago papers, boston papers, espn, cnnsi, fox sports plus many differents insiders from each of the sports sites. At this time I can’t link back to the exact one immediately.
I didn’t give them any credence then because like most Braves fans I believed we would get Peavy, it was just a matter of who went to the Padres.
There have a number of rumors that Braves have interest in Greinke but KC said untouchable. See my response to Coach as to what’s taken place now concerning him.
As Nocturnal said, the things about Baker were in a couple of rumors that the Twins (along with a few other teams) were interested in Yunel if the Peavy deal didn’t work out. Those couple of rumors said the Braves like Scott Baker.
Now, all of that said, again my origianl question was, is that true?
By Mark Bradley
November 15, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
Baseball being a numbers game, I thought it only fair to note that Nocturnal Owl has posted 26 times in 19-plus hours. That’s a heavy workload, but I must also note it pales alongside WTF???’s Herculean output of two weeks ago — 70-plus posts over two days.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
27? Gosh, you counted? LOLMark, I’m sure you don’t know me too much.(always @ DOB). Will try to come here sometimes(love the quick posts)… I’m a huge Braves fann! :O)
I have been blogging at all random times! Thats why I’m an Owl. 70 posts would be tough!
Skull Glad you are blogging more these days! Not much details Scott Baker info….
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this
To answer your question, WTF???, you have been entertaining. I laughed once or twice, and I’m not a big laugher. (I’m old and I’m cranky.) MB
LOL, WTF?? where are you?!?
By Couch Tater
November 15, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
…has posted 26 times in 19-plus hours.
Mark, while you’re counting posts the Havad guy is writing computer programs. lol
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this
I thought it only fair to note that Nocturnal Owl has posted 26 times in 19-plus hours. That’s a heavy workload MB
Ha! That’s nothing! I once had my name appear over 100 times in one Blog!
: ) Musta been some good McCann stuff goin’ on.
By DCbrave
November 15, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
McFann
One reason why this blog is much quicker to post may have something to do with the number of posts in the blog. Not a computer guy, though, just guess.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
DCBrave—
That could be…Heck, if DOB’s gone all weekend, this Blog will be pretty full by Monday…we’ll see how fast it loads then!
By Jake Peavy
November 15, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Look, I watched Bream’s slide, I was there when Justice hit the HR in the ‘95 World Series, but your team has lost my confidence!! Howa bout them Cubbies?!?!? That is where my heart is, folks. By the way, Burnett and Lowe will be too expensive, so get ready for my buddy Randy Wolf, and Jon Garland leading the Brave pack to another 4th place finish in ‘09 and beyond!! It’s nothing personal, I just want to go to a winner, not a whiner!!
By skull
November 15, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
As to DOB—-believe he said he was going to the Kansas/Texas game.
If so, he’s surely not a happy blogger right now—-Texas 35—Kansas 7. Oh my!!
By skull
November 15, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Let’s see, times are rough, economy might be in the toilet, folks are worried about their jobs, etc. But the Stinkees offer CC nearly $140M.
Hey Harry, Nancy, get with BO & see about asking the SteinBros if they can just bail us all out of this mess! We can dream can’t we?
By LivininAL
November 15, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Im afraid the NY Yanks are gonna push the free agent markt so high that the Braves might not sign a front line pitcher. Im curious, directed to anyone who would like to respond. What would you offer Hampton to return?
By Jake Peavy
November 15, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
Oh, and it’s really me, guys. I heard about this blog from my buddy in Mobile. He was telling me about a rumor that I didn’t want to come to the Braves, well it is true. Not to sound mean, but your team needs more than me and a “power bat” to compete in the NL east!! Heck fire, I’m thrilled that Frank Wren dropped out of the chase for me_ what a relief!! You all can throw the boo birds at me when I face the Braves, but my team will be competitive at least!!
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this
may have something to do with the number of posts in the blog
For reloading purposes yes. Not a factor as far as post times. I have been 1st to post before=same time on DOB’s
I once had my name appear over 100 times in one Blog! McFann
You go girl!!!! Wow, proud. Its called BASEBALL ADDICTION!
I’m going through that with the whole Peavy uncertainty……..
By Lew
November 15, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
It’s obvious Mark Bradley’s never seen a Shaun-a-thon.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
N Owl Wow, proud. Its called BASEBALL ADDICTION!
Haha…Thanks. Yeah, I’m really addicted! And to think, less than five years ago I thought that a home run was the only way for a team to get “points”.
Lew It’s obvious Mark Bradley’s never seen a Shaun-a-thon.
LOL!
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 15, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
AAAl right its Saturday night..I’m going out..so Ill stop @30 for the night!
Points? You have come a long way McFann! Again glad your a great Braves Fann. 141 days to opening pitch!!!!!
Shaun -a-thon or even a long long “Random” post!
later…
By Ric Flair
November 15, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
Where is DOB?
By DCbrave
November 15, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
Heck, if DOB’s gone all weekend, this Blog will be pretty full by Monday…we’ll see how fast it loads then
Nocturnal Owl would have to be a Noct-di-metat-urnal owl, or whatever owl that doesn’t sleep!
By skull
November 15, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
Where is DOB? *Ric Flair *
Did you my earlier, I believe he’s in Kansas.
By skull
November 15, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
As to DOB—-believe he said he was going to the Kansas/Texas game.
If so, he’s surely not a happy blogger right now—-Texas 35—Kansas 7. Oh my!!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
N Owl—
Yeah, I guess have come a long way…That’s all thanks to my parents and grandparents. (My Dad and my brother used to get so irritated with “points”, LOL.)
Again glad your a great Braves Fann.
Me, too!
141 days? Ho-boy!! Can’t wait!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
DCBrave—
Haha!
Hey, today we saw some Owls at the bird supply store that we shop at! this lady brought in her Screech Owl, Great Horned Owl, and Red-Tailed Hawk. The Owls even made some noises! (The Great Horned Owl’s were deep “hoots”, the Screech Owl’s were kinda of scratchy noises.) They’re such beautiful birds!
By Mike
November 15, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
Why do I have a bad feeling we’re going to get screwed out of all these pitchers?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
country boy Had [DOB] been our GM I think he would have traded Yunel, McCann and Jair to get Peavy judging from his blind and mindless blogs.
Your And Idiot.
Obviously you didn’t read DOB’s Blogs very good.
By skull
November 15, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
McFann
Agree with your country boy post.
Surprised you didn’t also invite him to go VORP yourself LOL
Ah, the beauty of blog language.
By Brian
November 15, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Mike- Probably because you’re right! This is exactly why we need Peavy soooo bad!! I know this isn’t Wren’s fault but I hope he didn’t burn that bridge with Towers. Buster Onley said it best refering to the Braves offseason. If Burnett goes to the Yanks, I’m telling right now, we might be in serious trouble. Wren knows it and so did Towers, and that’s part of the plan. A lot of these old timers here might get their wish that we go into “rebuilding” mode. Oh well, whatever happens, happens.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
Skull—
Yeah, I shoulda told him to “Get a VORPing life”…And he really should.
Ah, the beauty of blog language.
Seriously! Heck, you don’t have to be dirty…it’s more fun this way!
By Brian
November 15, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
McFann- Hey, give a shout out to DOB for me, will ya? He doesn’t like me one bit, because of… well ya know. You and “N Nine” have more sense than a lot, so keep bloggin!
By Tomas
November 15, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this
skull
where did you got the information Greinke rejected a contract.
By Efrim
November 15, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
I actually have a bad feeling about this offseason…with a lot of the high market teams needing pitching, the Yankees determined to spend whatever takes, and the fact that we don’t have an abundance of TOP prospects to trade (really, really hate the Tex trade), FW’s task is an extremely difficult one. Lowe is going to go to Boston, CC to the Skanks, AJ to probably the Yanks (maybe Orioles), and Dempster back to the Cubs.
Which is probably what Towers is waiting for. Then the Braves will throw in another piece that they never wanted to. Towers is playing this the right way. Wren had to make his comment, but I think Towers is holding out for more because he wants to see the Braves actually sign one of these pitchers. It’s a risky play, but one that I would make if I was KT.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 15, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Brian—
OK…
Hey, DOB! Sorry the Jayhawks got beat so bad! Hope you are otherwise enjoying your break!
You and “N Nine” have more sense than a lot, so keep bloggin!
Thanks. I gotta sign off in a little while.
By skull
November 15, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Brian & Mike
I feel your pain—-heard that somewhere before.
I agree with MB & his blog. It was time for FW to withdraw. Have to see who’s the best at bluffing as this progresses.
But, I have enough faith in FW that even if the Braves are shutout of the FA pitchers sweepstakes that he will pull off some other trades (like JJJ). As listed here today & past blogs there are some other decent pitchers out there & Braves do have players/prospects other teams are interested in.
Guess we’ve got to practice some patience & hope FW makes us proud. Really feeling THanson may be for real, so a trade or two, even without a major FA pitcher signing might be enough to get us back in contention. Here’s hpoing for the best.
Get-r-done FW!
By Lou Holsh
November 15, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
Why do I have a bad feeling we’re going to get screwed out of all these pitchers?
Thatsh what I’m shayin’, I ‘member when I’s coach at Notre Dame, the U Sh C coach got his way with those inshtant replaysh. Those pitcher’s didn’t show a good enough view to overturn that call.
By tlj
November 15, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
You may be right but I don’think Wren will go back to Towers. I’m sure he is leaving the door open but only for the Braves are willing to trade.
Wren doesn’t have to P/U one of the big name free agents. There will still be a few B type free agents that can help the Braves next year. In addition there are several pitchers that can be traded for that would be an upgrade from last year.
Actually I would be okay with just going with the kids JJ, JoJo, Morton, Hansen, etc. That is what Tampa Bay did a few seasons ago and look at their staff now.
I still think there is a chance Peavy will be traded to Atlanta but I don’t think Wren will add anything to the pot.
By Steve from OH
November 15, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I think your 9:15 is spot on. However, I do think that we’ve got a legit shot of signing either Lowe or Burnett, and I think FW has every intention of doing so.
By Mark Bradley
November 15, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
This is me guessing: The Braves will sign either Lowe or Dempster, but not both.
By Steve from OH
November 15, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
I see a lot of people saying “let’s have a rotation of JJ, Hanson, Morton, JoJo and x next season.” That’s fine, and I can see several feasible situations in which that would be acceptable, but I don’t see FW doing it, in part because it leaves far too many question marks next season (will JoJo and Morton realize their potentials? Will Hanson struggle as a rookie or not? Will JJ sophomore slump? etc), but mostly because he has stated that they’re not going to rebuild. So this isn’t going to happen. I am fine with seeing JJ, Hanson and Morton in the rotation, but we do (and most likely will, based on FW’s comments) need to acquire a SP or two, via trade or free agency. I really do think FW will sign either Lowe or Burnett, with Dempster being a distant 3rd. He’ll use Reyes/Parr/Redmond/Medlen/Diamond as bait (as part of a package, I should say) to acquire another starter, in all likelihood NOT Peavy, Greinke, or Cain. He will also (probably) trade for a LF, and my only hope is that Yunel and KJ are not included in either deal.
In all probability, Hanson will start in AAA (unless he has a dynamite spring) and FW will try to re-sign Hampton to fill the 5 spot. Hanson will join the rotation as soon as someone is injured or scuffles.
By Corey
November 15, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
The Braves are still the best fit for Peavy. The Padres need us, and we need Peavy. Burnett will be hard to sign. Maybe we get Lowe, Garland, Perez, or Dempster. But, nobody on the market compares to Peavy except for CC. And, the evil empire has already offered him 6 years @ 140 million. Peavy would be under contract for 5 years @ 81 Million. CC @ 23.3 mil per or Peavy @ 16.2 per. Your choice Wren. But, no one else compares!
By skull
November 15, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
Tomas
I posted about this ealier in 2 different DOB blogs. Think it came out Tuesday/Wednesday. I can’t find it right now which rumor site had it but I did find the Greinke quote. Believe it was from a KC newspaper teleconference:
“I’m comfortable with my pitching ability,” he said, “to (the point) where I feel like I’m going to pitch (well) for a while. I don’t need to get a long-term deal because I feel I’ll be able to pitch (well) and earn a long-term deal when I become a free agent.” Greinke
The rumor posting said that D. Moore then said he might be open to listening to offers now while his stock is high since he wouldn’t sign long term. D. Moore also said he might no7 trade him, so it’s still just rumors as all else is at this point.
Thinking even more about it, it might have come from some K. Law rumors.
By Tomas
November 15, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
Thanks skull I found it.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/886395.html
What would it take to get him(Zach Greinke), if he were to reject an extension? I hear they want to make Mike Aviles the starting 2B, so they have a whole at SS(Yunel). Another possibility is to trade Jeff Franceour, we all know how Moore loves him. Of course non of this trades straight up. If we trade Franceour we can trade for Jermaine Dye to play RF, and move Kelly back to LF.
C Brian McCann, 1B Casey Kotchman, 2B Martin Prado, 3B Chipper Jones, SS Yunel Escobar, LF Kelly Johnson, CF Josh Anderson, RF Jermaine Dye, SP AJ Burnett, SP Zack Greinke, SP Jair Jurrjens, SP Jorge Campillo, SP Tommy Hanson.
God I can only dream about that team. At least the team will have a definite improvement from this year.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 15, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
I prefer Dempster over Lowe. Primarily because he is four years younger, has 500 fewer innings of wear and tear, and is underrated. After all, I can name on one hand the number of pitchers who have been successful at starting and closing.
Dennis Eckersley: in the Hall of Fame.
John Smoltz: on his way to the Hall of Fame.
Mariano Rivera : Yea, he was 22-17 as a starter in the minors, 5-3 n the majors, had TJ surgery in 1992, Torre put him in the pen and the rest is history. Ditto on the Hall of Fame thing.
I’m certainly not suggesting that Dempster is headed to Cooperstown as of yet, but he is 63-54 as a starter with 87 saves.
It should be noted that Rivera, like many pitchers who have had TJ surgery, actually gained several MPH on his fastball.
By skull
November 15, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this
If I remember correctly Lew has been interested in the Braves picking Vazquez from the W/Sox.
Wondering why he didn’t pick up on the Chicago Trib. yesterday saying WS might be looking to move Vazquez/Dye, possibly even in the same package. They talked of the Cards as possible trade partner. Might be something for the Braves to look into.
I like Dye. I see Vazquez as a back of rotation guy-4/5 type of pitcher. Does seem to eat up a lot of innings. Not real big on him but maybe, just maybe, we may have to consider it now. Probably depends on how the FA meetings with some agents go, Don’t want to wait too long though. Sure could use Dye as a big bat, though he’s never really been a LF.
What would it take to get it done? Muse away.
By Efrim
November 15, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves have a better shot at signing AJ Burnett than they do Derek Lowe or Ryan Dempster. I think the Yankees are getting Lowe and Sabathia and I think the Cubs are going to resign Dempster.
I think the Braves will end up balking at the price tag for Burnett.
So I’m not sure where that leaves us, but I think there are a few pitchers that Frank Wren is probably sizing up through trade that make some sense. I can’t see the Braves signing Oliver Perez or Ben Sheets. After that, there is really no pitcher worth them signing. Maybe Randy Wolf and Mike Hampton?
By Steve from OH
November 15, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
The Bill James projects have AJ Burnett at a 3.62 ERA and 224 IP in 2009. It has Derek Lowe at 3.60 and 202 IP, and Ryan Dempster at 3.89 and 195 IP.
For the record, Jake Peavy is at 3.25 and 202 IP, and Jon Garland is at 4.38 and 186 IP.
Jair Jurrjens is at 4.02 and 178 IP, Charlie Morton is not listed, JoJo Reyes is 4.95 ERA.
By james
November 16, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
DOB is a punk show ur face dude…dont be embarrassed u dont know what the braves r doin nobody does…u have the best job in the world…u travel and pretend u tell braves fans whats goin on ..n u just like every other braves fan have no idea..just like u …u have no idea…maybe u should get paid by the hour…..dude u know nothing ur a bum ….one .. (anybody agree)…also if the AJC blocks this they are wack cuz the NY times would not …tell it how it is who agrees
By FaninFaytown
November 16, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this
james you’re a moron
By Memphis
November 16, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this
James, Your the moron. DOB was at the Texas/Kansas game today. He said he would be there a week ago. Just because something didn’t get done, he’s not a bum. It’s not his fault. You are the BUM!
By steve
November 16, 2008 2:50 AM | Link to this
y dont u go suck him off a little more..like he’s god or something..u all know as much as he does
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 16, 2008 3:38 AM | Link to this
Hey, today we saw some Owls at the bird supply store that we shop at! this lady brought in her Screech Owl, Great Horned Owl, and Red-Tailed Hawk. The Owls even made some noises! (The Great Horned Owl’s were deep “hoots”, the Screech Owl’s were kinda of scratchy noises.) They’re such beautiful birds!
By Mike
McFann, Didn’t tell me you saw my family. ;)
The Owls even made some noises! Yes, we are cute little birds! Bet you thought about the Nocturnal Owls too! We love making noises. If I only had a McOwl logo next to my name…….
Looks like everything is in full control this early morning.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 16, 2008 3:41 AM | Link to this
oops sorry for copying all that…must be late
By JD
November 16, 2008 6:04 AM | Link to this
I remember when the Braves traded one of the most popular players they ever had, Brett Butler, for a damaged pitcher. Please don’t let bad history repeat itself.
By BravesFan79
November 16, 2008 7:37 AM | Link to this
James your a idiot. DOB is one of……if not the best bloggers in sports.
And im GLAD we didnt get rid of Escobar!!
Anyone else notice that Peavy wasnt exactly Smoltz in the postseason? Good pitcher… yes…but i dont remember him being on the winning end 2 often in those division playoff series as he was usually out dueled by the other teams ace.
By R1U
November 16, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this
First, I think your backhanded comment about the value of Crime Dog was waaaaayyyyyy off base. No McGriff, no solid foundation for that loooong run. Secondly, the players union would be pretty upset if Sabathia doesn’t take the biggest deal. They constantly push the ticket price up, up, up. They count on/expect big stars to pave the way for bigger salaries. It helps everyone—-even the stiffs!!! Lastly, I agree with you re: Peavey no trade. Cannibalizing our system for a possible DL candidate is masochistic
By santos
November 16, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this
peavy is a top 5 to 10 pitcher in baseball. the trade offer is not good. the ss the braves is good, but the rest is avg. i am a big brave fan. most of the braves fan say that was to much to give up. they say this because we did not get him. just do the trade
By DAP01
November 16, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this
If we strike out on all of the other pitchers through trades and FA and we break down and offer enough to get Peavy, we will still be average and no better.
Let’s not mortgage our future just to make one move and in the end we are no better off. 4th place is 4th place no matter who we get.
Let’s continue to build our team. Right now, we simply aren’t that close.
By Previous Ryan Skeptic
November 16, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
Great point of view Mark. I agree with you 100%. I hope Frank Wren doesn’t go out of his way to resign Mike Hampton. I hear Hampton is seeking a one year deal at about 4-5 million. If I was a GM, I wouldn’t give him more than 2 million tops. And I think that’s gracious. He’s pulled and injured muscles that I’ve never heard of. To me, he’s been a leach and needs to prove that he can stay healthy.
By Cough Syrup
November 16, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
Wasn’t Jim Morrison a left-hander? Wasn’t he thrown out of a game once for putting a foreign substance on the baseball? They didn’t have spectrographic centrifuges back then so everybody thought is was a spitball…..ew.
Few people know that Jim Morrison wrote a followup hit to “Take me out to the ballgame”. It didn’t catch on. Here’s a small portion of his lyrics, sung to the tune of the Soft Parade…..”When I was backup reliever in the dog days of august there was a person there who said you can petition the umpire foul or fair, …petition the umpire foul or fair….YOU CANNOT PETITION THE UMPIRE FOUL OR FAIR…..”
By Efrim
November 16, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Peter Gammons blog:
The Braves may say they cannot include Jeff Locke and one or two other prospects to fill out the Jake Peavy deal, but what is it going to cost them to get in on A.J. Burnett or Lowe? That could play out for a long time.
Maybe it will be as simple as Ryan Dempster realizing he walks to work on Chicago’s north side and wants to stay there, and Burnett deciding he likes the coaches and trainers and teammates in Toronto so well that he stays for four more years. The Yankees, Braves and others figure to make that virtually impossible, and as of Saturday morning Burnett’s agents had not received an offer from the Blue Jays.
Speculation about Jeff Locke, I think. But, Wren made it clear for a while that the Braves weren’t dealing Hanson or Heyward. I have a feeling that more prospects were on that list. I think Wren’s line of thinking is that he is giving up Yunel Escobar, that should be worth 2 top 10 prospects. I agree with that rationale.
As far as Burnett/Lowe go, I’ve said it before, Towers is waiting to see if Atlanta can actually sign one of these guys. Because if he can’t, I really doubt Wren is going to keep from upgrading his starting rotation by not trading a potential mid-rotation starter like Locke for Jake Peavy. All speculation on my part though. There is obviously a ton that I don’t know about with these talks. But prospects like Locke and Flowers entered those discussions late, at least from reports. And maybe Towers wanted both and Yunel Escobar.
By richbrave
November 16, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
SIGN BURNETT. Whatever it takes $$$$-wise. Sign OHMAN. SAME deal. SIGN HAMPTON for the right deal only. That’s 6 million with an incentive-laden contract and three years. Sign TED TURNER for a remake of the organization.
By Efrim
November 16, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
Anyone see this article yesterday from the Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Baseball/article/537485
Just stuff we obviously knew, but still good to know the Braves are have interest.
By Braves20
November 16, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
Passing on Peavy is the right move - as long as we don’t mind being a sub .500 team for another two to four years.
Think of what we would have had to offer had we not given up the farm for a non-clutch hitting first baseman. It’s still pitching that wins championships - just ask the Yankees.
By Brian
November 16, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
Braves20- You’re exactly right about the Tex trade! A good chance we would already have Peavy by now. I still can’t believe people still think the package offered to the Pads was too much. Too much? No, but I trust Wren and think the final demand by chest hair Towers was overboard. Still not sure if Wren pulled out because he felt disrespected or the guy asked for more. If Burnett/ Lowe sign somewhere else, he almost has to target Peavy again or like you said, we’ll probably be a sub .500 team for awhile!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
N Owl—
Oh yes, I thought of you when we saw the Owls! And they say “Hi!”
; )
Owls are just so beautiful! I will say one thing, though—they’re tricky to draw. If I do say so myself, one of my best bird portraits is my Barred Owl—because I had to spend so much extra time on it. Their face is harder to draw than it looks!
If I only had a McOwl logo next to my name
Hmm…that might be complicated…
(ºº)
Close…
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
BTW—
James, Your And Idiot. Get a VORPing life!
And it’s real gutsy of you to trash talk DOB when he’s not even here. Why don’t you say that to his face?
By Mark Bradley
November 16, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
If we could go back to my original point, such as it was: After the five-for-one Tex trade, the Braves are no longer in position to make another farm-system-defoliating deal. Nor are they so good at the big-league level that one guy — Jake Peavy, say — would push them to the top. They face a goodly period of rebuilding. That’s what I meant when I said getting Peavy would have been “too easy.”
By Lew
November 16, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
McFann-Whenever you draw animals or birds, concentrate on the eyes. They are what draw you into a picture. If you make the eyes expressive enough, no one pays as much attention to the rest. Same with portraits.
By richbrave
November 16, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
LEW:
Unless they happen to be another artist who understands that precept, and looks at the over-all composition as well.
By joseph
November 16, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
I think if heyward and schafer and hernandez are so good, we should trade blanco and anderson in some deals to get some pitching. I would like to keep escobar and johnson and prado for when chipper does call it quits. Pardo looks special. Imagine Heyward in left and hernandez playing center and stealing bases which we need so badly, then flowers and kotchman platooning at first. Flowers can relieve mccann when necessary.
go ahead and start hanson in the rotation, then have
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Course, if you want a beak…
(º•º)
By richbrave
November 16, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
JOSEPH:
Now there’s an idea I like. FLOWERS as pinch-hitter and spelling both McCANN and KOTCHMON. Of course, he’s got to show up and play big league ball first, but I like it.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Lew—
That’s very true. I once drew a Bald Eagle, and everybody seemed to really like the eyes.
I love drawing eyes…Dog noses, not so much…
Richbrave—
That’s a good point. That’s true…at least for me.
By Mark Bradley
November 16, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
Oh, and for all those wondering where I am: I’m at the Dome, where the Falcons and Broncs are scoreless at the moment.
By Lew
November 16, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
RichBrave-Gee, Dude, In 40+ years of art, that never occurred to me. I’ve corresponded with McFann for over a year now and have seen examples of her art. Just giving her a beginner’s tip and nothing else. Check my website-there’s no drawing there of just eyes.
By Lew
November 16, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Let me issue a caveat here-McFann has talent. She’s just got lots more practice to put in. Offering beginner’s tips is certainly not to disparage her talent. It is an acknowledgment of her abilities.
By Brian
November 16, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
In my last post, the 5th or 6th sentence sounded a little strange. Honestly, it wasn’t intentional. McFann- Just ignore this post, will ya?
By Brian
November 16, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
Bradley- You have to cover the Falcons? YUK!! They’re good this year, but I know you’ve had a lot to write about for, lets say, 10 years now!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Lew—
Thanks! I appreciate all the tips I cann get. I do need them!
Brian—
OK…Consider it ignored!
By Brian
November 16, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
OK, this is why I hate ESPN and the Yankees!! Now that they’re talking about getting Peavy, ESPN will blast it everywhere!! Watch and see!! Name more than maybe Olney once or twice in the last month and a half where the Braves were talked about. At least it might make Burnett a little easier to nab.
By Lew
November 16, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
Brian-Mark’s got a much easier job covering the Falcons this year than in some of those from the recent past. It’s a job that tests his creativity and stretches his Journalistic creds, I’m sure.
Could be worse, though. He could have been required to cover the Bucs in the 80’s and early 90’s. THAT was an exercise in futility-14 consecutive losing seasons (most at 2-14).
By brianh
November 16, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
I agree with this commentary in principle but also know there is one major difference in the instruction the pitching department had at the Atlanta level back then and who we have now. Leo could develop and rejuvenate aging veterans. I am just not sold on the present day pitching coach yet.
By Mark Bradley
November 16, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
I came to the AJC in March 1984. It took until 1991 for me to witness a winning season by either the Braves or the Falcons. Think about that.
By Brian
November 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Lew- I used to be a Falcons fan and now that they’re turning things around and that sicko Vick is where he belongs, I might start paying more attention!
And you know something else, that Rosenthal is a little turd squirt, isn’t he? Everytime the Yankees or Mets get involved in rumors, he’s on it like a fly on a turd!! Who cares, he picked us to win the WS in ‘08 and even I knew that was a LONG shot!!
By Norma Jean
November 16, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Braves Fan 79
You have to be the biggest cheerleader on this blog. You are either 8 years old or living in your mom’s basement. Like every beat writer, Dave O’Brien magnifies the good and glosses over or ignores the bad. If you made a complilation of his observations last season you’d never guess he was talking about a 90 loss team.
By Lew
November 16, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Mark-I grew up in Philly in the 60’s. Even attended the 7th straight Phillies’ loss at the end of the ‘64 season (Callison hit 3 HR and they STILL lost to Hank and the Mil. Braves). Then moved to Georgia in ‘68-nothing much in the way of winning there. Then down to St. Pete for 12 of the Bucs 14 consecutive losing seasons. I know what you mean. Ain’t futility fun?
BravesFan79 is just hacked off that he keeps getting banned for racist comments. Got news for him-it’s not DOB’s doing-it’s the censors. Of course, most logical humans would take it back a step to the content that got banned……
By Lew
November 16, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
Brian-Look at the staffs that Leo had to work with compared to those that McDowell has had. It’s one thing bringing veterans back to their capabilities when you have a 3 HOF group at the front of the rotation and then relying on a pitcher past his prime for 4 or 5. It’s quite another situation when you’re counting on those old guys to anchor said rotation.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Lew Even attended the 7th straight Phillies’ loss at the end of the ‘64 season (Callison hit 3 HR and they STILL lost to Hank and the Mil. Braves).
Sweet!
By Lew
November 16, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
McFann-Not to a 13 year old Phillies’ fan.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
Lew—
Oops…heh heh…Sorry…
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 16, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Some are saying Cards are looking at adding Ohman. What is the Braves current focus other than TAZ?
Lets go shopping for players.
Nice McOwl, McFann! But i was kidding about adding that ! But yes you have talent!!!
I hate Yankees- I hate Yankees
might as well throw in Bravesfan79 to that mix
Lew, used to be a Phillies fan?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Haha…Thanks, N Owl!
I wasn’t trying to show off there, BTW…
That was an amazing pass by Matt Ryan before that TD.
Cardinals want Ohman?? No please…Are the Braves talking to Will at all? They gotta re-sign him!
By MGL
November 16, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
For you Prado fans - He is playing winter ball in VWL. AGV = .143, OBP = .143.
By Nocturnal Owl (º•º)-ZZZ
November 16, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
No harm done McFann. Just for your efforts I put him up just this one time! ha Looks good huh?
Yes we need Ohman. Wren has been very quiet since he told Padres NO!
I just don’t see all this Peavy to Yanks working out!
Cubs and Braves are out all of sudden…(santana part 2) officially has started.
I hope CC signs with Yanks soon.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 16, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
MGL thanks for the prado update. Not too worried, he is a hitting machine. I think he will be an excellent Backup not starter…we have YUNEL
..so no worries here!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
N Owl—
Haha! Yeah, looks good!
Wren has gotten quiet…wonder what’s up…
I don’t see Peavy going to the Yankees either. But those darn Yankees, they want everybody! Peavy…Burnett…CC…they want Lowe, too, don’t they? Sheesh…
Little bit later!
By richbrave
November 16, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
LEW:
You are such a dick.
By Calvin
November 16, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Actually Mr. Bradley, That Tex deal last year was a 5-for-2 deal with the other piece the Braves got was Ron Mahay. People keep forgetting about that.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 16, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
I used to be a Falcons fan and now that they’re turning things around and that sicko Vick is where he belongs, I might start paying more attention! Brian
Damn right you might have to. Its going to be fun. This story is just…well amazing! The city of Atlanta had no clue how much to expect from Matt Ryan. I am sure MARK is enjoying himself at the DOME (4-0).
Matt Ryan didn’t just start on bench, but has shown he will be a NFL QB for a long time. Mr. Blank went big with a rookie contract and some questioned that move. Even the mighty Goddell questioned such signings with rookies.
After unexpected dumping and signings to go with good drafting, The upper guys have set a nice nucleus already. Bright future indeed.
By james
November 16, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
DOB is a bummmmmmmmmmmmm , do you people have any friends? You guys are stupied..for weeks u have been sayin get peavy get peavy ..even when u knew yunel was involved ..now cuz we did make the trade ur like yea yea yea good thing we didnt make that trade..u guys once again r wack..stand up and talk like u were a week ago ..all of u..u can even go back and read those blogs if u dont believe me..(wack)
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 16, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley can you pull a DOB and take James off and boot him.
James go away since we are “stupied”
By Jake
November 16, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
For you Prado fans - He is playing winter ball in VWL. AGV = .143, OBP = .143
Thank God its the VWL and not the MLB. I’m surprised he’s playing, I thought he was injured but he must be healthy now. How long has he been playing? How many at bats?
By radoncbravesfan
November 16, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
James DOB explained the intricacies and pros v. cons of trading for Peavy v. signing others via free agency over and over and over. Now that FW has decided to move on you criticize DOB and others. You and Norma Jean are prime examples of ubiquitous ignorance.
By james
November 16, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
ok maybe im beenin a little harsh on DOB..my bad..but seriously u guys have been sayin for weeks now u would trade esco..now u guys changed up ..what if we dont get burnett or lowe..then what will we do..they need peavy and they need burnett or lowe, if they get peavy then a dempster or lesser pitcher wouldnt be as bad..but the only ace is maybe burnett we can get and hes risky too
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Ok, James, then what would you do if you were the GM? How would you right the metaphorical ship that is our Atlanta Braves?
By tommyguns
November 16, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
yea james i feel that, they do need peavy. there pitching as of now is very very bad. i dont think any of those pitchers will choose atlanta.
By Efrim
November 16, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
This is actually the first time I have seen Buster Olney’s column in full about Peavy-Braves:
The two sides had moved the proverbial ball to about the 1½-yard line in their effort to make the deal and were haggling over the fourth and fifth pieces in the trade. In time, we’ll know if this is actually the end of the negotiations, or just part of them. Here are two factors that neither side can really get away from:
1. The Padres’ best fit for a trade is with Atlanta. The Braves have an excellent stable of prospects, and they have Yunel Escobar to anchor the deal. Peavy controls the process with his no-trade clause, and the Cubs simply don’t have the caliber of prospects needed to get a deal done.
2. The Braves’ best chance at landing a pitcher who can make a high impact is making the deal for Peavy. Atlanta will not bid for CC Sabathia, and they will likely have to bid against the Yankees, Orioles, Jays, Mets and perhaps other teams for A.J. Burnett, as well as Derek Lowe. And after that, the Braves will be looking at the second-tier guys like Ryan Dempster, Jon Garland and Oliver Perez. If you game out different scenarios with the top free agents, each puts the Braves at risk of being left standing when the game of free-agent musical chairs stops.
For example: If the Dodgers, Angels or Giants were to lure Sabathia back to California, then the Yankees would probably intensify their efforts on Burnett and Lowe. If the Yankees get Sabathia and Lowe (the Yankees fully intend to land two of the big three), then the Braves will be locked into an intense bidding war over Burnett with multiple teams, a battle of offers that they may or may not win. Atlanta would not want to go into 2009 with essentially the same team, with merely the addition of someone like Perez — not when the Braves have been so close to landing Peavy.
So in the end, it still makes a lot of sense for both the Padres and Braves to take a deep breath and then thread the needle on the last square of their trade quilt and complete a Peavy deal. Both sides need this trade. We’ll see if it happens.
First off, fourth and fifth pieces? Yea, well, let’s keep it to 4, at most. Like Mark has said, the 5 for 1 deals really shouldn’t take place because of where the Braves currently are at.
Second, I wouldn’t consider Dempster a second tier guy, I really wouldn’t. Oliver Perez? Yes, definetly second tier. Jon Garland? Fifth tier. Shouldn’t even be considered. I’d rather walk into the season with Campillo, Morton, Reyes, Jurrjens and Hanson than to sign Jon Garland.
Lastly, for the most part, I think Buster is right. Free agent musical chairs indeed. And they really don’t want to miss out on all of them and then have to go back to Towers with absolutely no leverage.
By james
November 16, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
dude i would first get peavy and make that my first goal..i hope jeff locke isnt the only reason we cant get this dont..i would def. not give up hanson tho..he does look like roy halladay..then i worry about another pitcher and shortstop..maybe try to get jermaine dye
By james
November 16, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
i agree with that..if they could have gotten peavy already they could use that to lure someone else that atl isnt so bad
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Efrim, Buster’s right. But keep in mind that Towers too could lose his leverage if Dempster returns to the Cubs and Peavy blocks a trade to any AL team that tries to land him. That would leave the Braves as his only realistic trading partner. Wouldn’t that be interesting? The Braves AND Padres backed into a corner on the Peavy deal? Ah, it’s fun to speculate.
Jon Garland? Fifth-tier? That made me laugh when I read it.
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
James, my problem with “get Peavy first” is that we don’t have enough resources (cash+prospects) to acquire Peavy, sign/trade a SS, acquire a (good) LF (this should be a top priority) and get a second SP. If we scratched off second SP, it’s more realistic, because we could sign Furcal and trade for a LF.
I’m glad he stood his ground on Locke. There is no reason to include another top 10 prospect in a deal that already includes our good, young, affordable starting SS, another top 10 guy in Gorkys, and a high-upside SP like Charlie Morton. I agree with you on Hanson, though, dude’s untouchable and should be. Kid’s got a bright future ahead of him.
By Treadkiller
November 16, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
I read that the Tigers are talking trade with Boston..Lugo for D-Train or Robertson. We should get in the game and jump all over the Tigers. I would love the D-Tain in Atlanta. A nice return to the NL might be just what Dontrell needs to return to form.
By james
November 16, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
your assuming locke is going to be good..dude you gotta give to get.. morton doesnt look very good..i think rodger mcdowell needs to go
By james
November 16, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
no d-train is garbage
By Efrim
November 16, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
I hope we can sign one of Dempster/Lowe/Burnett, but I am pretty sure Lowe is going to be a Yankee, Red Sox, or Met at the start of the 2009 season. And if the reports are correct about Dempster passing on the Cubs 4 year 50 million dollar offer, than I doubt the Braves will offer THAT much more to sign him. Maybe 4 years and 52 million, but I can’t see them going higher than that.
It comes down to Burnett. If Lowe and Sabathia are Yankees, like Buster suggested, than I definetly think the Braves can outbid the Orioles and Jays. I haven’t heard the Mets in on Burnett, and I doubt they would be after him.
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
San Diego is also assuming Locke will be good. That’s why they want him. While I respectfully disagree with Mr. Bradley’s “defoliated” reference to our farm system, I agree with him that we should not trade away prospects in huge quantities like we did for the Tex deal (although I think that the only one we’ll miss from that deal is Feliz, though I’m still fired up that we had to throw in Beau Jones at the last second). You do have to give to get, but the idea is not to give too much. We’d be giving too much in that proposal, period. That would be exacerbated by giving up Locke.
Morton no good? Come on, man. Have a bit of patience. It’s that kind of thinking that will “defoliate” your farm system and leave you with a lineup of Anderson, Prado, Chipper, McCann, Teahen, Ibanez, Kotchman, and O. Cabrera (or Felipe Lopez or David Eckstein) with rotation of Peavy, Jurrjens, Garland, Wolf and Campillo. That team would win about 10 games (or at the very least, score about 10 runs a month).
Dude, a successful team MUST build from within first, and fill their needs from the outside second. If we can’t get Peavy on our terms, we’re ruining our attempts to fulfill our first goal. We’ll have no shortstop, lose a good (or at least promising) young pitcher, and two top 10 prospects to go with it. To fill one need. Not wise. I’m willing to take a chance on Morton and Hanson next season, and hope we can fill our LF needs via trade (w/o giving up Kelly Johnson, esp. for Ludwick), and signing Derek Lowe or AJ Burnett, along with Mike Hampton. After we’ve accomplished that, we can re-open talks with San Diego, sans Escobar. If he wants Locke in a deal that doesn’t include Hanson, Esco, Schafer, et al, he can have him.
Don’t get me started on McDowell. The dude’s done a good job with the scrap-heap he’s been given to work with. As far as anyone can tell, he’s recieved nothing but rave reviews from his players.
By Lew
November 16, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
RichBrave-Yeah-I work hard at it.
Nocturnal-Used to be is the operative phrase. I moved to Georgia when I was 17 and have been a Braves’ fan ever since. I did live 12 years in St. Pete, so I was kind of rooting for the Rays this October.
By james
November 16, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
i dont see mcdowell makin any john burketts..n who was that lefty he had then went to the yankees and was no good
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
i dont see mcdowell makin any john burketts
You’ll have to excuse my skepticism, but that is a thoroughly unconvincing argument. So a guy has a career year under a different pitching coach, and therefore, since no one has had a career year under McDowell, McDowell=bad? Not buyin’ it.
The lefty was Chris Hammond, btw.
By Efrim
November 16, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
I also would be pretty damn happy if this team signed Tazawa. I’d double whatever offer we had put on the table. It’s like adding a first round draft pick and potential #2/3 starter to our farm system. Here is Keith Law’s take on the kid:
Tazawa has a stark delivery with a hard stabbing motion at the start, but creates a lot of deception by keeping the ball behind his body. He takes a good, long stride, and accelerates his arm quickly once he starts moving forward. His fastball is already solid-average at 88-92 mph, touching 94 on occasion; it’s straight but he does command it to his glove side.
His best secondary pitch is a splitter with sharp, late bottom; at 78-80 mph, it’s his change-of-pace pitch as well as a swing-and-miss pitch in any count. He also throws a mostly 12-to-6 curveball in the mid-70s that projects as average or slightly above. His ability to change eye levels with his off-speed pitches and the fact that he has an out pitch give him a pretty high ceiling for a guy with an average fastball, probably that of a No. 2 starter.
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
Efrim, good stuff on Tazawa. I agree that we should sign him. Did you like how Law thinks Jon Garland should have “Avoid” stamped on his forehead?
By scottbravesfan
November 16, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
It would have been cool to get Peavy but if Wren would have given up Hanson it would have been a huge mistake. I wish the Braves still had Wainwright instead of giving him up for a one year rental. Schuerholtz made a lot of stupid trades towards the end of his run.
By Efrim
November 16, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH, yea man and he is right.Garland is awful and would be tough to watch as a Braves fan. Good thing DOB said that we have no interest in him. By the way I just read a Joel Sherman article that said the Braves were in on Swisher as well as the Mets and Yankees. Good to hear that we had some interest in him. Yankees stole him from the White Sox. Sooner or later, all of these deals Kenny Williams makes will come back to haunt him. Of course, he did make the Danks and Floyd deals, so I have to give him some credit.
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Here’s KLAW’s scouting report on Garland:
Garland should have “AVOID” tattooed on his forehead, as everything about his stuff and performance is pointing downward. He has never had an out pitch, and his stuff was more ordinary than usual this year.
He was sitting 88-92 with a mostly straight fastball, a fringy slider in the low-80s and a hard changeup that keeps lefties from destroying him, although they still hit him hard. In 2008, his strikeout rate dropped, his walk rate increased, his home run rate increased and, of course, his ERA spiked, even though the defense behind him was better than the one he left with the White Sox. He brings one thing to the table in his durability, as he has gone seven straight seasons with at least 190 innings pitched. But Barry Zito’s best attribute when he went to San Francisco was his durability too.
By Andrew
November 16, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
so what do u guys think our first move is going to be?
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I’m really surprised Williams did that deal too. I think Squawking Baseball did a good analysis on that deal, if you haven’t checked that out. I figure that FW has something better in mind that would allow him to pass on Swisher. Just hope it’s not KJ for Ludwick.
By ccrider
November 16, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
It sure is a lousy time to be a Georgia sports fan! Univ. of Ga. started out as NO.1 and turned out to be just another good team playing in a mid-level bowl game. Ga. Tech looked to be the surprise story of the college football season and is now looking at playing in another Blue Carpet type Bowl game. The Falcons have been a great story and certainly exceeded expectations, but any dreams of a playoff berth probably crashed and burned today. The Hawks looked great out of the gate, but they have gone back to their old ways of half effort defense and undisciplined play. They may make to the playoffs, but are definiitely not a Championship contender! Finally, Our Braves looked like they were taking the first step in completing the trade for Peavy to get us back into an elite club the was capable of winning a World Series. Unfortunately, it looks like we will end up withsomething more like Hampton, Jurjjens, Glavine, Campillo/Morton, Hanson as the Starting 5(NOTE; This group would be better than throwing good money in multi-year contracts after mediocre to bad pitching like O. Perez, Byrd, Garland, Wolf, ETC.) The free agent postion players either aren't very good, injury prone are way over priced. If, the Braves can't sign a major free agent pitcher and make a trade for another high pitcher, it makes no sense to trade Escobar, K. Johnson or any major prospects to make minor changes. It would be better to go with Morton and Hanson in the rotation with Jurjjens, Hampton, Glavine or Campillo and let them get established or fail as major league pitchers. Save the money, create a war chest so to speak, look for trades that improve but don't degrade the major league roster( Teams that will probably need to cut payroll due to the economy), develop the top prospects another year and then re-evaluate our options. Frank Wren is a good GM, but you can only make the changes that make sense and present themselves or you end up digging yourself into a deeper hole!By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 16, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
so what do u guys think our first move is going to be? Andrew
Taz or Peavy
By Brian
November 16, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
James- DOB is not a bum, sometimes smart a*, but not a bum! I do agree with you on some people here and other blogs all of the sudden saying, “I’m glag Wren didn’t trade Escobar”, when for the last month and a half, it was all good.
I really think Peavy will still be hunted because the war for Burnett and Lowe will be a masacre! Imagine if we had already landed Peavy, the next step would be Burnett. Well, sometimes if something sounds too good to be true, than…
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 16, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
Clearly Yunel should be traded for an ace like Peavy just not for a lower tier pitcher.
By Jake
November 16, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
Boy ccrider are you jumping off the atlanta bandwagon already? The Falcons are still in the wild card race and by all accounts this year they should not have been. There record is 6-4 and they only trail Tampa Bay and Washington at a game out. The Hawks are still winning their division without their number 2 player. The Braves have a long offseason ahead of them so no telling there. Just wait a little while longer before you give up hope.
By Efrim
November 16, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
Just hope it’s not KJ for Ludwick.
That is such an awful trade. I mean, my god, that is a classic sell high for the Cards. There is a reason that they are willing to trade him folks. He is injury prone and finally stayed healthy, but are we to discount all of those years in his twenties when he didn’t stay healthy? Nope. Got to take it all into account. Johnson for Ludwick would be a bad trade for the Braves and a great trade for the Cards. Not to mention, Kelly is 27 on opening day next year. I believe Ludwick is 31? Braves need to fill their LF void elsewhere.
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
Efrim, you and I are on the same wavelength tonight, bro. I will say that I’m not opposed to acquiring Ludwick, but only at a price that is less than KJ.
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
For the record, Bill James projects Ludwick at .281/.351/.528 in 2009. I’d take that line anyday, but it doesn’t make sense to trade Kelly for him.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 16, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
Ludwick .299 avg 37HR 113 RBI
KJ .287 avg 12HR 6 RBI
I agree KJ is too much for Ludwick. Just the stats don’t agree . How did Ludwick do so good on an average Cards team. I will compare the two after 09 season to see if that gut feeling was right.
The numbers make it tougher but I like KJ and something about Ludwick points to NO.
By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)
November 16, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
KJ 69 RBI’s
Efrim I wouldn’t use the word awful to describe the KJ-Ludwick trade…But I too agree.
Trading KJ opens up another hole not fixes a hole…
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
Here’s some more Bill James projections for some Braves:
Kelly Johnson: .284/.364/.460
Yunel Escobar: .300/.375/.415
Jeff Francoeur: .272/.323/.435
Brian McCann: .301/.370/.525
Chipper Jones: .315/.420/.532
Gregor Blanco: .274/.382/.349
Josh Anderson: .285/.324/.367
Brandon Jones: .271/.343/.429
Nitram Odarp: .301/.356/.402
The others are on fangraphs.com, look ‘em up if you like.
By Mark Bradley
November 16, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
The lefty who went to the Yankees was the reliever Chris Hammond, yes, but James might have been thinking of Jaret Wright, who isn’t left-handed but who started Games 1 and 5 of the 2004 Division Series against Houston and lost both. He then signed with the Yankees.
By Efrim
November 16, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
N Nine
Ludwick plays a corner outfield position. Why are you comparing a second baseman with a corner outfielder? Ludwick should have better offensive statistics than him. But that isn’t really the point. We should be able to acquire a left fielder without having to trade Kelly Johnson. LF is a pretty easy position to fill with someone who can give you the power you need. Not to mention, Kelly Johnson is 27 next season. I believe Ludwick will be 31. It doesn’t make sense to me. But you are talking to a guy that doesn’t think Martin Prado is an everyday second baseman for a good team.
By Andrew
November 16, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
Bradley what do u think of mcdowell, i wouldnt mind bringin back mazzone
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Steve—
I’d take those numbers…
Hey, I made some mid-season projections for BMac before the start of the second “half” this past season. I must say, some of them were very close to his real numbers.
The AVG would have been exact if they would have called two REOs hits (the biggest one being that “error” by Rollins in Atlanta—that called cost BMac an RBI).
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
NNine, looking at the above projects, we’d be trading our 3rd best hitter for…someone who would be our 3rd best hitter, but with a better SLG and a slightly worse OBP. Ludwick would be a nice pickup, but we’d be wise not to trade KJ. KJ is an essential component to our offense. But we do desperately need a slugging corner OF. And I don’t think Martin Prado is an everyday 2B either. Great bench dude, but not a starter IMO, especially if we have KJ. If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it.
And I don’t care about the RBI’s one bit.
By Efrim
November 16, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
I’d sign right now for basically all of those projections…..except of course Jeff Francoeur.
.272/.323/.435 for a corner bat is pretty terrible.
Gregor Blanco puts up a line like .274/.382/.349, and I would be pretty darn happy with that. Josh Anderson putting up those stats as a fourth/fifth OF would be nice.
Although I really think the Braves need to deal one of Blanco or Anderson before opening day next year. I’d rather have Blanco, to be honest with you.
By Mark Bradley
November 16, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
I think Roger McDowell is a pretty fair pitching coach. I think Leo Mazzone is the best ever.
And Andrew — you can call me Mark.
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I was about to say the same thing about Blanco/Anderson. Maybe we can get someone stupid to bit on Anderson’s speed as a trade piece.
I don’t even know what to think about JF, his projections, etc. anymore. Only God knows, my man.
By Frank Wren
November 16, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this
Sorry Kevin, I’ve moved on from your better-than-average injury risk, prima donna eight-figure salary, PETCO-enhanced pitcher. Enjoy your junk package from the Cubs centered around Sean Marshall.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 16, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Josh Anderson could be an everyday lead off hitter and center fielder except for the one glaring hole in his game. The speedster doesn’t draw nearly enough walks in order to keep a respectable OBP.
However, it’s what he did right in 2008 that is truly astonishing.
Between Richmond and Atlanta he stole an impossible 52 bases out of 60 attempts( .866 success rate). The kid can motor, that’s for damn sure. He just needs to learn that in his case, a walk is as good as a double.
As far as the real sleeper who could fill the Braves LF need, that would be Juan Rivera.
By Steve from OH
November 16, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this
Coach, you’re right that Rivera could be a sleeper. But the way I see it is that we’re already taking a chance on Francoeur in right, so we’d probably want to be absolutely certain that we’re going to get production out of LF. Compound that with maybe starting a rookie in CF (Jordan Schafer), I just don’t see any way the Braves take a risk like that. They want a sure thing, I am sure.
By Andrew
November 16, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
Didnt some scouts compare Schafer to Grady Sizemore? That would be sweet if he could be anything like Grady. I’d say we just have Blanco,Schafer and Anderson battle for the CF spot.
By Andrew
November 16, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Mark, im from PA and i follow the penguins. How are the players doing that we traded for Hossa?
By Mark Bradley
November 16, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Colby Armstrong has been pretty solid — he has two goals on the season. Erik Christensen finally scored his first goal of the season tonight in Philadelphia; he has, as the saying goes, been pressing.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 16, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
Rivera isn’t a risk. He can hit for average, hit for power, field, has a rifle arm, and is dirt cheap. He plays both RF and LF.
Where is the risk in that, Steve?
By Efrim
November 16, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
Coach
I think Frank Wren is shooting higher for LF. Rivera’s career line is .284/.331/.468. Not awful, but I think the Braves, with their current roster, need more from their left fielder. Rivera is a nice fallback option, but he wouldn’t be my first, second, or third choice for LF/4/5 hitter.
By Andrew
November 16, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
i think our outfield is going to be a mystery for awhile
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 16, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Mr. Bradley—
Thank you for “baby-sitting” us denizens of DOB’s Blog this weekend!
I’ll make it a point to check in over here from time to time.
And hey, next season, no more burrito jokes!
; )
By Mark Bradley
November 16, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
Glad to do it.
By Andrew
November 16, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
Mark, do you think the Padres and Braves will re-engage talks for Peavy? If not where do you think he’ll end up?
By Mark Bradley
November 16, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
Here’s my prediction: If Peavy hasn’t been traded elsewhere by the new year, Kevin Towers will give his big buddy Frank Wren a call.
And I’m going to make a wild guess that, if Peavy doesn’t come here, he’ll wind up with the Dodgers. (I know, I know. The Padres have said they don’t want to trade him within their division. But they may get desperate for a taker.)
And please feel free to avail yourselves of Bradley’s Buzz, which will be posted tomorrow morning. The lead item of linkage will be on Jake and the ol’ hot stove league. In fact, I’ll grabbed a few links from the suggestions you’ve made above. So I should say thanks, and here goes:
Thanks.
By Brian
November 16, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
Bradley- I think we all appreciate how you don’t chime in and make us feel dumb! I would have never thought you could feel like that from the Internet, but, boy, DOB makes that possible! Alright, I’ll lay off O’Brien because he does give us all something interesting to read and think about. I’m sure he’s a good guy if I ever met him.
By Andrew
November 16, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
can’t wait for the Bradley bizzzzyy
By Lew
November 16, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
Brian-You aren’t anyone on DOB’s blog if you haven’t been reamed a couple times. Happens to us all. Keeps you humble, Dude. Well, maybe not, but consider it a rite of passage.
Mark-we do appreciate letting us take over for the weekend, though.
By Lew
November 16, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
Mark-Inviting us over here may turn out like inviting a Vampire into your house. Better be careful. Keep this up and you might win a Wurlitzer.
By Mark Bradley
November 16, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
If the Wurlitzer is the award for dumbest journalist in the world, I figure I have a lock on that.
By Mark Bradley
November 16, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
One last thing: Having sat next to Ms. Carroll Rogers at the Falcons game, I can report that she plans to have a new Braves blog for y’all tomorrow.
By Andrew
November 16, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this
one more thing Mark, what do you make of the Ted Turner stuff?
By Brian
November 16, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS:
Braves fans will be waiting for awhile before any exciting trade or FA signing happens( Courtesy of Brian R.D. of the Chattanooga, TN Braves fan since ‘91)
By Braveheart
November 16, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=486993
Going after Randy Johnson is an easy decision for any big league team looking for pitching. If he’s really willing to play for $8 million, he might be one of the bargains of this offseason.
The Cubs are interested. The Astros could be interested. He makes sense for the Phillies, Braves, Dodgers, Brewers, Angels and Rangers. And that’s just a preliminary list.
This free-agent buying season is going to be played out on two distinctly different playing fields. CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, Derek Lowe, etc., are at the highest level.
They’ll get huge money and won’t be impacted by the economic crisis. But for dozens of other free agents, it could be a different marketplace. Fewer dollars, fewer years.
That’s why Johnson is such an intriguing player to have on this market. Yes, he’s 45 years old. Yes, he has pitched 4,039 innings. Those numbers say there’s risk involved.
There are no sure things. But based on what he did last season — and based on what he has done for most of his career — he’s worth the risk.
He still pitched 184 innings. He still had an ERA of 3.91. He still had 174 strikeouts and 18 quality starts.
If he can simply repeat those numbers, he’d be worth more than $8 million. He’s not worth the $15 million he made last season. He knows this and offered to play for half that amount.
For teams with a real ceiling on what they can spend, Johnson might represent a reasonable, short-term investment. He’ll make a decent buck in 2009, but he won’t get a three- or four-year commitment.
There’s a whole class of free agents like that. All carry some risk. Carl Pavano and Mike Hampton have injury histories. Brad Penny is coming off a tough year. Andy Pettitte is 36 years old and had a bad September.
They’re gambles, but isn’t giving Sabathia a six-year deal at $140 million a gamble? As teams worry about a decline in sponsorships and season-ticket sales, more of them are searching for short-term deals.
The Diamondbacks apparently offered Johnson around $3 million for the 2009 season. As much as Johnson apparently wanted to finish his career in Arizona, he was unwilling to take that large a cut from $15 million.
There were stretches last season when he seemed done. He was 6-7 with 5.23 ERA on July 12. After that, he was almost as good as ever, going 5-3 with a 2.41 ERA in his final 13 starts.
He finished with 8.46 strikeouts per nine innings — sixth-best in the National League. He had a 3.93 strikeouts-to-walk ratio — third-best in the NL.
He’s likely to have a long list of offers, but the Cubs may make the most sense. They’ve offered Ryan Dempster a four-year, $50-million deal and may wait a few more days for him to accept or decline.
Signing with the Cubs would reunite Johnson with Lou Piniella, who was his manager for a time in Seattle. The Cubs have made an offer for Jake Peavy, but the longer the thing plays out, the less likely it seems the Cubs and Padres are going to have a match.
Johnson, however, makes sense for every team seeking pitching. He might be the right guy to put in a clubhouse with those young Dodgers pitchers. Returning to Seattle to get his 300th victory would have a nice sentimental value.
He had a nice run in Houston in 1998, going 10-1, and with the Astros unable to re-sign Randy Wolf so far, Johnson surely would appeal to team owner Drayton McLane.
If the Phillies can’t re-sign Jamie Moyer, Johnson would make sense. The Brewers will be shopping for pitching if they lose Ben Sheets and Sabathia. If Johnson prefers a warmer climate, there’s always the launching pad in Arlington Stadium.
The Angels could also get into the mix if they fail to land Sabathia. In the end, Johnson will have his choice.
He’s a different kind of guy. Don’t rule out him going back to the Diamondbacks and trying to find a number both sides can live with. But, given that Arizona just laid off 31 employees, the Diamondbacks simply may not have the money to spend.
However, if the D-backs think they’re going to find someone better, someone available at a reasonable price, they’re probably wrong. For about a dozen other teams, Johnson represents an opportunity to get better.
Richard Justice is a columnist for the Houston Chronicle and a regular contributor to Sporting News.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 17, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
Along with Randy Johnson there is the case of Mike Mussina. IF he doesn’t retire and IF the Yankees don’t sign him first, the 40 year old right hander could be had for about one year in the 10 to 12 million dollar range. Then when considering the 20 games he just won, that’s one hell of a bargain.
The Yankees will get Sabathia. They might even sign Derek Lowe, and if both players end up in pinstripes, Pettitte and Mussina might be on the market for real.
Yes, both are free agents. But we all know the Yankees get first dibs.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 17, 2008 1:51 AM | Link to this
As for the Kelly Johnson for Ryan Ludwick rumors, they are just that, rumors.
If it was a true offer from the Cardinals, the Braves would be all over it. Ludwick is no flash in the pan, he for real. It hasn’t been his talent which has held him back, it’s been a series of injuries and missed opportunities.
The 29 year old outfielder finally put it all together. He stayed healthy, got the chance to play everyday and proved the Cardinals scouts correct.
By DAP
November 17, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
with all the talent the braves have coming up, i wouldnt hate it if wren patched up the pitching with a few veterans, like johnson or mussina. especially if they are one year deals, because then we go into 2010 with that money to spend, again.
obviously, only if the braves cant better the team for years to come with a good young free agent pitcher (or peavy) would it be a good idea, but theoretically, if the braves could get johnson 1 year $8mil, mussina 1 year $10mil, and bring hampton back for 2 years $14mil, weve got three veteran pitchers for $25mil in ‘09.
the risk is there for it to be a repeat of ‘08, when all of our veterans went down, but, we would still have morton, jojo, hanson, jurjens, campillo to fill out the last two spots, and to fill in if one of these guys went down. it could work.
but thats gotta be plan C.
By Efrim
November 17, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this
DAP
i wouldnt hate it if wren patched up the pitching with a few veterans, like johnson or mussina. especially if they are one year deals, because then we go into 2010 with that money to spend, again.
Here is the list of free agents after the 2009 season:
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/05/2010-free-agents.html
I don’t see much other than John Lackey. The rest of those guys options will be picked up. I expect the Angels to sign Lackey long term too. So I think it is important that the Braves grab two pitchers this offseason. Whether it is on the free agent market, or through trade. They can pass on Peavy and save those prospects for when Zach Greinke or Matt Cain become available, which they will at some point within the next year.
By Mark Bradley
November 17, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
The aforementioned Bradley’s Buzz is now up. Feel free to peruse and, if so moved, to comment.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 17, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Mark B.—
C’mon, man! You’re not the dumbest!
I’ve always felt that the Sports section of the AJC is the only worth-while part of the paper…OK, the nature-thingy in the Living section is pretty good, too.
Thanks for the info re Ms. Rogers!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 17, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
OK, well, the one problem with the Sports section is that they always give Georgia the bigger picture—even if Tech wins and Georgia doesn’t play/loses.
By DAP
November 17, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
efrim there are a few decent guys on that list, including duchester, harden, bedard. but, i agree with what you are saying.
my post was plan C, as i pointed out. if plan C happens the way i said, we would still go into 2010 with hudson, jurjens, hanson, and hampton for sure, and we would still have jojo, morton, and campillo. plus, wed have about $20mil coming off the books. the braves would be in ok shape.
but i agree, the braves need to sign someone for a couple of years to solidify the rotation for the future. even if its just sheets.
By DAP
November 17, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
union pressures sabathia to sign with the yankees
i find this very unethical. the union has no business telling free agents what to do, or pressuring them in any way.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 17, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
DAP—
Yeah, that’s ridiculous.
By Efrim
November 17, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/nov/15/padres-s16padnotes/?padres
Jake Peavy was in Puerto Rico last week with Hoffman, Young and several other ballplayer friends, including the Brewers’ Ryan Braun and the Yankees’ Derek Jeter. Another friend called Peavy to ask if he had heard that Peavy soon might be dealt to the Braves.
Peavy’s response left one person present to conclude that Peavy, whose consent is needed for a trade, will not be going to Atlanta anytime soon, even if the Padres and Braves were to agree to a trade. “I think he wants to go to Chicago,” the friend said.
Good thing there won’t be a trade for Peavy to agree too.
By Brian
November 17, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
That’s fine about Peavy! You know, things in life, yes, even something small like baseball, happens for a reason. If he doesn’t want to be here, than it’s best for the Braves to seriously move on FOR GOOD!! I honestly think that’s why a trade didn’t go down. Towers and Wren probably had a feeling Peavy would make a trade here very difficult. I mean Escobar, Morton, Hernandez, etc, sounds awesome for the Padres.
By Rick Long
November 17, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Mark:
Frankly, it’s hard for anyone to express a true opinion regarding whether the Braves were asked to give up “too much” when no one knows for certainty what they were being asked to give up. No question that their ability to acquire Peavy (who for all of those critical posters is merely one of the very best pitchers in the game) was torpedoed by Schuerholz’s trading 5 prospects for a mercenary one year rental (i.e. Texeira).
I am willing to accept Wren’s characterization of the negotiations and applaud him for imposing a deadline and telling Towers to “fish or cut bait” because he wanted to explore other oppotunities. That being said, the Braves appear to be very quiet on the free agent front so far. Wren’s comments regarding breaking off the Peavy talks sounded like he would be moving aggressively and quicly on the free agent front.
By DAP
November 17, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
carrol’s got the new blog up, so we can stop being DOB/MIB refugees on mark’s space.
By KC
November 17, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley:: “The Braves aren’t rich anymore. They’re not the moneyed club that raided San Diego for a fairly productive first baseman on July 18, 1993, for the modest price of Melvin Nieves, Donnie Elliott and Vince Moore. The days of the Braves dealing from a position of absolute strength have gone the way of the Crime Dog.”
I don’t understand what the Fred McGriff trade had to do with being “rich”.
“In this post-Time Warner era, the Braves have become just another mid-level organization.”
HUH??? I think you meant to say “in the post-Ted Turner era…”. The Braves were far worse off under Time Warner than they are right now.
The aren’t rich anymore. That’s true. Gone are the days when they were consistently among the top 5 payrolls in the game. HOWEVER, the Braves were in the top 10 last year in payroll, and will remain so in 09…
They’re certainly not on par with the NY or LA teams, but they’re not “just another mid-level organization”.
So I’m not sure I follow you’re point. The Braves aren’t dealing from a position of strength?? Only a handful of teams in baseball have as much cash to spend this winter as the Braves. And in terms of talent (which is what got the previously mentioned McGriff deal done), they are most certainly in a position of strength.
“Because if these dangled young Braves were so good, how’d Atlanta manage to lose 90?”
Man, with all due respect, that’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve read in a while. Do you honestly think GMs evaluate talent on the basis of his team’s record. Come on man, get real.
“Dealing five prospects for a one-year rental — John Schuerholz’s parting gift to Wren — left the new GM with a defoliated farm system.”
Are you talking to different people in the Braves organization than everyone else? While the Tex deal hurt, the Braves still have a well stocked farm system. At least that’s what I hear from every reporter (except you) that has reported on the state of this organization.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 17, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Maybe it’s just our computer, but um…Ms. Rogers’ Blog just went blank.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 17, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
Never mind…it’s back.
By chipper=HOF
November 18, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
anybody know how i cant get back on DOB’s blog i cant post
By skeezix
November 19, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
I’m glad the Braves aren’t after Peavy anymore. I believe he is damaged goods—ALL WE NEED IS ANOTHER PITCHER THAT HANGS AROUND THE MRI MACHINE MORE THAN THE PITCHING MOUND! Let’s have patience and build from within.