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Home > Mark Bradley > Archives > 2008 > September > 10 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USCox not ready to call it a career
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Attention, bashers: You will — repeat, will — have Bobby Cox to kick around next season. As much as he hates losing, he loves his job more.
“Nothing will change my mind about returning — not winning, not losing,” Cox said Wednesday. “It’s still fun for me. Being here is fun.”
By “here,” he meant Turner Field, not fourth place. By won-lost percentage, this is the worst full season any Cox-managed team has endured since the 1979 Braves. By depth of disappointment, this is the worst, period. Leaving spring training, Cox said he liked this team “a lot — you could win with it.” Then everybody got hurt.
Even then, the world’s most optimistic man was the last holdout. Asked how it felt, in the wake of the Mark Teixeira trade, to quit on a season, Cox said: “I didn’t, frankly. I don’t give up very easily.”
But now the manager who has won 15 division titles gets his pennant-race fix from watching former lieutenant Ned Yost’s Brewers play an afternoon game on TV. Yes, that’s different. “Even the last two years, we’ve gone down to the last two weeks,” said Cox, whose team was mathematically eliminated Monday. “This has not been good. You want to be in the chase — that’s what we preach.”
Then, brightening: “This year has been a bummer, but it’s still fun to come to the park and be a part of it.”
For six weeks now, the Braves’ emphasis has been on 2009. “We have a lot to do during the winter,” Cox said. More to do than ever before? “I think so … We’re going to have money. We’ll spend until we’re at the top of the budget.”
Will the recently frugal Braves actually buy a big-ticket free agent? “We are going to try to do that, I can tell you. And trades, too. Frank [Wren, the general manager] will pursue every angle on free agents and trades.”
The rotation will be the top priority — “We’ve got to get that in order,” Cox said — but he doesn’t believe the Braves have seen the last of John Smoltz and Tom Glavine. “I’d lean on the side of them coming back. But we have to make moves and then hope they come back.”
Asked specifically about Charlie Morton, the heralded rookie who carries a 6.32 ERA, Cox said: “Some of the young guys have got to prove they can stay here.”
Asked if he’s worried about his outfield, Cox didn’t answer. The interrogator reframed the question: Could the outfield use another bat? “That’s a better way to put it,” Cox said. “We could use another bat.”
Barring a major acquisition, who would be his 2009 center fielder? “Hmmm,” he said. “[Gregor] Blanco or [Josh] Anderson.” What of the prospect Jordan Schafer? “He missed an awful lot of games this year [due to suspension]. He’s going to play winter ball.”
And Jeff Francoeur, whose flailings have been documented in excruciating detail? “Jeff is making a little bit of a comeback. He’s a very determined kid. He has [hit] before, and that makes you think he’ll do it again. He’s on the right path right now.”
And has the 67-year-old manager, as a host of AJC.com bloggers insist daily, indeed lost his touch? Said Cox, flashing a rakish smile: “I’m probably better now than I’ve ever been.”
He has every intention of honoring the extension he signed earlier this year and leading the Braves throughout 2009. And his wife, Pam, Cox reported, has raised no objection. “She hasn’t mentioned [retirement] one bit,” he said. “She has a million times before, but this year she feels bad about what’s happened.”
He shrugged. “Everyone’s used to winning.”
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Comments
By TI
September 10, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
Bobby is the man.
By Sonny
September 10, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
Them bringing back Smoltz and Glavine tells me they aren’t truly serious about winning next season. Enough with the nostalgia, get some PROVEN YOUNG ARMS in here to build the team around for years to come.
Sabathia would be a nice start for this cheapskate franchise.
By Keith Warren
September 10, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox is the most overrated manager in the history of baseball.
When he starts to make his Hall of Fame acceptance speech, Smoltz,Glavine, and Chipper ought to jump-up and tell Cox to go sit back down and do nothing like he’s always done.
By jack
September 10, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
NO NO NO!!! GO GO GO!!!
By country boy
September 10, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
arn. Love what Bobby has done for us in the past but this organization needs new leadership in the dugout. Obviously a very selfish decision by Cox to return. His comment about managing still being “fun” to him basically means he puts himself ahead of the needs for the club.
By jack
September 10, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
NO NO NO!!! GO GO GO!!!
By Tron5000
September 10, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Hopefully the Braves can have a winning, playoff season in 2009, likely to be Bobby’s swan song. I know that if they don’t reach the postseason, however, it won’t be for lack of effort. They will go all out for their manager in his last year.
And another year of Bobby means another year of TP learning from the classiest manager I’ve seen in my lifetime. I’d be ecstatic if TP would take the reins when Bobby decides to call it a career. No one better I could think of to lead the Braves into a new era.
Thanks for all you’ve done, Bobby. Now gives us a great season to remember you by.
By Brian
September 10, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Bobby is the most professional manager you’ll ever find. You knew he’d be back and although we have every reason to question his decisions, this year especially, with some real talent on the field in 09’ there is no reason to think he can’t lead us back to the top.
By richbrave
September 10, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this
COX has earned the right to set his own time-line for departure. Frankly, I don’t think I could cope with the breakdowns on this current club projecting into another year. I’ll never forget the look of frustration on BOBBY’s face last Sunday when he took BOYER out of the game. At 67 who needs that at 68.? Well. I guess BC does. O.K. skipper, go get ‘um. And GO BRAVES
By Paul
September 10, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox should stay. If he didn’t manage this team no one in America would know they exist. He managed them to respectability.
I do question the decision to bring back Glavine. Smoltz should only be used as a closer.
By Bulldog Drummond
September 10, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Hey Tron 5000
I’m trying to figure out which part of Bobby Cox you consider “classy.”
Is it the chronic nosepicking?…the constant grousing about the umpiring and foul language that goes with it?….the short, terse, usually false postgame comments to the press? Or the dugout cheerleading, which makes him sound like a demented Little league grandpa?
It is truly a shame this man will have to be dragged kicking and screaming from the dugout, instead of stepping down gracefully.
And Tron 5000, don’t forget to double bag my groceries next time I’m in your store.
By Mark Bradley
September 10, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
It would seem — at least to me — pretty hard to dismiss all the first-place finishes and remember only the season (this one) when Cox never had his rotation intact for one turn. Nobody could have won with this team. Nobody, I say.
By Keith Warren
September 10, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
Bulldog Drummond, Don’t forget about Bobby’s other signature move: Picking his ear and then sticking his finger in his mouth.
By Kevin S
September 10, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
You bitter idiots begging for Bobby’s departure are not Braves fans or students of the game. Move on to football because Bobby Cox will go down as one of the best ever. Ask any player.
By Mark, it's Kool-aid time
September 10, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Mark, I always thought you smarter…. Bobby Cox has been winning because he had the BEST TEAM in baseball. Give him a normal team and he gets normal results.
Let the choir join in now…anyone including Chuck Tanner, could/should/would win with Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Avery, Wohlers, Neagle in their prime.
FIREBOBBYCOX.com
By Flustered Fan
September 10, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
I am sure Bobby’s as good guy and all but it is time for a change. New leadership needs to be in the dug out. A new attitude needs to be instilled in the players. Remember, a team is only as good as its manager.
By Einstein
September 10, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
Bobby, You are one of the most fortunate managers in baseball. You had the priviledge of 4 hall of fame pitchers, Ted’s checkbook, and a career year by many 2nd and 3rd tier players…while you did nothing but (1) eat goobers, (2) pick your nose, and (3) get thrown out of games when you got bored. You ARE a players manager…the players don’t do anything, but get paid a jillion dollars to just show up. In spring practice, while other managers are helping their players to hone their bunting, stealing bases, and hitting to the opposite field, you’re assigning tee times. I want to play for you. The best thing the Braves can do is see if Ned Yost is available. I like Bobby, but he’s been stealing money from the braves longer than Hampton, Corky, Boyer, etal. Retire him…give him a prarade…name a sandwith after him…just get rid of him and the braves will be on the right path to start winning. One last question Bobby, when did you know that Corky was a better player/hitter/catcher than Sammons? When did you think that bringing Boyer or Manny “I’ll cost you” would actually prevent runs from being scored” What made you think TP and RMcD were major league coaches? What a %#@!?*& joke!
By Bulldog Drummond
September 10, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
Mark,
I have to agree with one of the above posters. When facing teams with at least equal talent—in the play-offs—Bobby’s teams more often than not got “nosed” out.
Why are the AJC columnists and beat writers afraid to at least question his moves now and then?
By Kevin...just forget it
September 10, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
Kev, being liked by the players is OVER RATED! Winning is the name of the game - Dale Murphy was LOVED by EVERYONE. Did you notice how many HOF votes he gets year in and year out????
Bobby has all those wins because of longevity, period! See Bud Grant and Marv Levy and you’ll know what I’m talking about.
By tom shoupe
September 10, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Bobby needs to retire or be fired. All those Division Titles mean nothing when you cannot get to the big dance and only win it once. I alot of other MLB cities Cox would have been fired even when he was winning Division titles. Can’t take the team to the next level. Last couple of seasons have been disgusting. Fire him.
By MACMARINE
September 10, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
I CAN STILL DREAM AND HOPE THAT BOOGER, FOUL MOUTH COX WILL GET TOSSED FROM THE BRAVES.. WE NEED NEW LEADERSHIP, AND I DON’T MEAN TP EITHER. THIS IS THE MOST OVERRATED DO NOTHING MANAGER IN BASEBALL. PLEASE COX PUT THE TEAM ABVOVE SELF FOR A CHANGE AND GO COACH LITTLE LEAGUE .
By bobby
September 10, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
I agree nobody could have won with this team, but a good manager would have had them competitive.
By Braves2009
September 10, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
Its time to put the past behind us. To come back next year with both Smoltz and Glavine is asking again for a losing team. I say if Smoltz wants to try then great. He wont take a contract if he thinks he cant pitch. Glavine on the other hand should just retire. We have plenty of number 5 starters who are cheaper and just as good.
We need position players, 2 top of the line starters and some pen arms. Waisting money on Glavine IMO tells me they still dont get it. You want to win you try for the best. Glavine is done, Hampton is a toe nail waiting to tear and the pen emplodes with each pitch. We have money, spend it wisely and we might be competitive. Give it to Hampton, Glavine and Smoltz and you will have a rotation like this year. Rookies who should not be here, being ruined by the stress and an outfield that reeks.
By Mrs Cox
September 10, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
I bet there is one person in his home who hopes he does not retire.
By dICK
September 10, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Cox is like Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno. Their hay day has passed them by. They need to bow out now and save a little face.
By dr soul
September 10, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
As usual, just a bunch of ‘whiners’ who have little respect for baseball and certainly do not understand a lot about the managing aspect of it… Cox has put together a legendary presence representing not only himself, but the city, players, families and fans.. look around all you want, but there is no one else that you could select to have come in and achieved the same.. as Mark (with whom I rarely agree) stated… there are a bunch of spoiled kids on this blog that do not appreciate hard work and achievement.. and, talk about loyal fans to this team.. have a bad year or two and their world goes to hell.. lots of smoothed hand kids squawking here.. and jealous ones, too..!!! Stay as long as you like, Bobby…you really have no peers when it comes to the acme of managing and respect of team.. let these ‘pantywaist’ keep crying in their milk..just pipsqueaks, no real men there..
By Mark Bradley
September 10, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Let me clarify something: Cox did not say the Braves are counting on Smoltz and Glavine. On the contrary, he believes the Braves can’t count on them. But he still thinks there’s a chance, maybe even a decent one, that they’ll pitch again for this team.
Me, I kind of doubt that both will. I think this is it for Glavine.
By Tribblehorn
September 10, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Dr.Soul,
It is the hero-worshipping, kool-aid drinking half wits like you that have no backbone.
I think I hear your mom calling you now from the top of the stairs.
By mr baseball
September 10, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
In the almost 2 decades Cox has been manager this time around, I doubt that anyone at the AJC - beat writer, columnist, whoever — wrote an extended piece examining Cox’s managerial style and strategy.
Cox is always praised by media types — you included — for his record (regular season at least), how much players love to play for him and how professionally he manages the clubhouse.
His record is about 99 percent a product of the talent he managed. Players love to play for him. So what. Any proof that their “love” has translated into more victories? Granted, he has done excellent work during his career keeping his teams on a solid footing from game 1 to game 162. That is clearly his strength as a manager.
No one, and I repeat no one, at your paper will delve into Cox’s strategic abilities. Simply put, he was never all that good in that department (other than sniffing out squeeze bunts by the oppositions a time or two a year), and as the quality of his personnel has deteriorated, his strategic shortcomings have become more evident.
Just about every decision he makes comes straight out of a baseball managerial book that has been obsolete for decades. Lefty/righty, when to bunt, when to steal, all determined by “the book.” Remember Mike Remlinger? Much better against RH hitters than lefties. Cox never really figured that out.
He is incapable of independent thinking. He is also incapable of making intelligent personnel decisions based on performance. Witness tonight’s game and Blaine Boyer.
Braves’ fans with good memories can recite the many questionable post-season decisions Cox has made that helped lead his teams to defeats. He deserves credit for the regular season success, but after about 1992, the teams pretty much won on their talent alone, not anything he did.
What his defenders — you among them — avoid at all costs is a discussion about the Braves’ post-season failures and Cox’s share of the responsibility in that department.
Whatever his managerial abilities, once a game starts, they become a liability for his team. What he does before the game may be commendable, but I don’t see how anyone can say that once the game starts, the guy is a Hall of Famer.
By dr soul
September 10, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
Tribblehorn….your statements confirm my observations…Thank you
By hammer
September 10, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
um, this is fun???? that man has lost his mind. he needs to say his health is declining and retire. I hope the Braves are whispering in his ear to step down. Certainly he did great things for Atlanta but this team needs fresh blood from the top down. If he sticks around, we will have another year of mediocre play from players who aren’t inspired by Cox. We will have another year of an over-used bullpen because Cox likes match-ups too much. We will have another year of guys playing who should be sitting. And next year we’ll end up being WORSE than the Nats. That’s awesome.
By Mark Bradley
September 10, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Here’s one thing I’ve learned about baseball in the 30 years I’ve been in the business: Nothing ever runs itself. And some of the managers who seek to effect the most “strategy” — Bobby Valentine, say — tend not to win very much.
And for all the talk about “strategy,” it all comes down to this: Somebody has to throw the ball, and somebody has to hit it. This isn’t football, where you can line up with five wide receivers. It’s still one pitcher against one hitter. If your guy beats the other team’s guy, you’re a genius manager. If not, you’re a dunce.
By Supes
September 10, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Not this sh*t again…:eek:
By justafan
September 10, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
Anxious to guide team back to Prominence!!! Bull sh@$!! Still fun for me (BC). What about the Fans? I had tickets for years but 2 years ago I refused to go back till Bobby Cox is gone.I’ve saved money and the Braves have sucked for 3 years. Another year of this shi@ under Bobby is a dam@ joke. Maybe Divine intervention? Now rip me up you people that live in the past.
By caballo muerto
September 10, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
mr baseball, you hit that one out of the park. Obviously, you’ve actually watched the Braves play.
The Atlanta media is a bunch of spineless milksops. They only seek to pad their little nests. That includes beat writers and columnists. Other towns would have run the likes of Cox out on a rail long ago. When I read O’Brien’s blog, I’m am shocked at the fear he has of Cox. He’s afraid to question him. What a joke.
By Mark Bradley
September 10, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Yes, lots of towns would have been all too happy to get rid of a guy who finished first 14 times in succession. Now let’s try naming one such town, shall we?
By Keith Warren
September 10, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
New York City.
Now go put the curls back in your hair, Mark.
By Kilroy
September 10, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
Bobby has been good for the Braves, good for Atlanta and good for baseball. I remember the Braves of the 1980s. It could be much worse. As far as I’m concerned, he can stay and manager the Braves as long as he wants.
By Jack G
September 10, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
Cox stays and 2009 is going to be a repeat of 2008.
When you are over the hill brother you are over the hill.
Unfortunately some folks just wont face the fact that they are over the hill——Cox, Smoltz, Glavine.
TP and Roger never got to the top so they will probably stay and be happy to stay on the payroll
By caballo muerto
September 10, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
Lineups, as in staying with an unproductive lineup, who is pitching, how many innings he’s pitching, who are the relief pitchers, how many times they are pitched, lefty v. righty carried to the extreme, benching hot hitters so they can get cold, and just plain losing.
How many years of losing baseball does the city of Atlanta owe Cox?
By Mark Bradley
September 10, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
New York City. Good example. Joe Torre makes the playoffs every season from 1996 through 2007, then gets shoved out the door. And where are the Yankees this year, might I ask? (Answer: Third place.) And where is Joe Torre this year? (Answer: First place.)
By caballo muerto
September 10, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
Yes, lots of towns would have been all too happy to get rid of a guy who finished first 14 times in succession. Now let’s try naming one such town, shall we?
NY, BOS, LAD, LAA (that’s four)
So you’re saying if Cox walked from the Braves, teams would be lined up to hire him?
By bravelee
September 10, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Mark: How about the Yankees, who dumped Torre to try something different…after 13 playoff appearances?? How about 3 straight subpar seasons, and a team on the verge of complete implosion…and he doesn’t manage the pen or the young guys worth a crap? I think you just hate change, but realistically it comes to this: Bobby, Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux should allretire after the season, and go into the Hall together. And I’d be in the front row at Cooperstown! Nostalgia wins nothing…
By caballo muerto
September 10, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Cox had FOUR HOF’ers and a huge budget. That’s why he won. And with all that, he only “managed” one WS! I hate the b-astard.
You lazy Atlanta sports “writers” only enable the loser mentality in this city. Yeah, it’s OK to lose, we got this booger-picking, G-D’ing M-F’ing retard that rode four HOFers coattails.
By Kashi
September 10, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
CAN WE WIN NEXT YEAR WITH OUR TODAY’S BULLPEN?. HONESTELY, I DO NOT LIKE ANYONE IN OUR CURRENT BULLPEN EXCEPT MIKE GONGALEZ.
By Richard Martin
September 10, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
This team is and has been going in the wrong direction! All those one run losses, rumors of clubhouse desention lead you to believe that we need a change. Please lets stop talking about bringing back guys that could only win one championship in their prime when they are now old men. Give up, their time has come and gone. Lets get better by getting on with the future. I love the old guys but in the hall of fame, not as the main stays on this team any longer. Filler rolls maybe just not the hore any more!
By richbrave
September 10, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this
MR> BRADLEY:
Yours of 9:25 p.m. One can only hope. As I’ve said before I would trust SMOLTZ’s decision either way. I would not trust GLAVINE’s. He’s gonna’ have to be told he’s not welcome back for him to hang ‘um up.
By richbrave
September 10, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
TORRE:
Didn’t his brother FRANK play for the BRAVES too.?
I remember when he was interviewed after being shoved out the door for Cox. It might have been SKIP. CAREY: “What’s to do.?” TORREz; “I’ve got ability and I’ll be around. Don’t worry about me.” Impressive.
By Baseball fan
September 10, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
Mark, give it up. These dolts who bash Cox clearly have no clue about baseball. The manager creates an environment for the players to perform. That’s it. In an age of mammoth egos and free agency that makes it impossible to establish continuity without a $200M payroll, what Cox has done is nothing short of remarkable. If anything, Cox is underrated.
By Ro all tn Roberts
September 10, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley you gave the jackals the red meat they needed to go on an anti-Cox rampage, and thus, they have.
You’ll do no good trying to force sense into the senseless, dude.
They’ll always believe Cox had little-to-nothing to do w/the franchise’s record-setting run of division titles, but everything to do with their postseason futility.
These folks are a contradiction unto themselves, and trying to reason with (most of) them is a fruitless venture.
It’s Bobby’s fault Greg Maddux of the regular season didn’t translate to the postseason; it’s Bobby’s fault Gary Sheffield couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn in October; it’s Bobby’s fault Mark Wohlers left a hanger out for Jim freaking Leyritz to smack; it’s Bobby’s fault the strike zone for the Marlins was stretched from the back ends of both batters’ boxes in a crucial game 7 of the NLCS; it’s Bobby’s fault we went into the 2000 World Series w/no offensive punch with Javy Lopez on the shelf.
Baseball’s proven itself, in this modern era, to be a game where the best team doesn’t always win it all (Angels, Cardinals, Marlins come to mind), but folks can’t give consideration, for one second, that maybe the Braves just didn’t get all the right bounces when they neede ‘em.
See, that’s what so many folks love about baseball; it’s a game that sometimes becomes a humbling experience for even the best; the best hitters fail about 65% of the time; the best teams don’t always win.
But the best managers put their team in position to win it all, year-in, year-out. I’ll go to battle with Bobby Cox next year, with a big-name free agent pitcher, the hope that Smoltz returns, with Jurrjens, Campillo, and (insert a ‘Parr’ or a ‘Morton’ in the fifth spot), our position players and a big LF or CF bat acquisition, and believe we’ll be in great position to win the East.
That’s just me.
By Mark Bradley
September 10, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
Torre wasn’t pushed out for Cox. It was the other way around. Cox was fired after the 1981 season, whereupon the Braves hired Torre. Torre was fired after the 1984 season having finished first, second and second. The Braves promoted Eddie Haas, who didn’t make it until Labor Day. Maybe the worst move in franchise history.
By Ron Roberts
September 10, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Richbrave… pay a visit to the Braves’ website and find their managerial history. Torre didn’t get pushed out the door to make room for Bobby Cox. Chuck Tanner, Russ Nixon both managed the Braves before Bobby Cox returned.
By Ron Roberts
September 10, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Richbrave… pay a visit to the Braves’ website and find their managerial history. Torre didn’t get pushed out the door to make room for Bobby Cox. Chuck Tanner, Russ Nixon both managed the Braves before Bobby Cox returned.
By Mike
September 10, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
All of you clueless fans, who want to blame the losing on Bobby, should find a new sport. It’s not his fault.
By mark
September 10, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this
some of you bloggers are just plain rude i mean right out disrespectable..this has been a tough year injury wise for the Braves..Get over it
By Mark Bradley
September 10, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
Do I think another team would try to hire Cox if he no longer managed the Braves? Only about 25 of them.
By mr baseball
September 10, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this
To all the diehard defenders of Bobby Cox: Nobody is saying Cox is solely responsible for the Braves’ post-season underperformance. At least not the ones who have a clue about baseball.
Bobby Cox IS RESPONSIBLE for the many, many managerial decisions he has made in close games that resulted in Braves’ losses.
A few of the highlights:
Twice putting Charlie Leibrandt into situations he should not have been placed in. We’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on the second one, which was more the fault of Jeff Reardon than the manager.
Suffering a panic attack (something he did on more than one occasion in the post-season) and putting Wohlers in the game in the 8th inning. It wasn’t his fault that Wohlers threw a fat pitch to Leyritz. Wohlers was a 1-inning pitcher. The Braves were ahead by 3. Wohlers should not have started the 8th inning. That was Cox’s fault.
Years later against the Astros, he did the same thing again, this time with Farnsworth. That entire series included some of the absolutely dumbest moves any manager has ever made in a post-season series (Tom Martin & Farnsworth vs. Berkman). He made some moves in the 18-inning game (or however long it was) that defied all logic, and the Braves lost, mainly due to his strategic incompetence.
There are other examples, but we’ll leave it there.
Cox clearly has several admirable qualities as a manager.
But I defy anyone on here to make the case that the guy is a Hall of Famer once the game starts and we can actually judge how well he does his job.
Also, please explain why the Braves and their 14 division titles managed the grand total of 1 World Series championship, and were so awful in the post-season for the last 10 or so years of the 14.
By Steven
September 11, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
Regardless of what you think of Cox, the fact is we had injuries so bad, even Mike Scioscia wouldn’t be able to get this team to the playoffs. I believe 100% that if you give Cox a relatively healthy ball club, he can get to the WS.
BUT, I didn’t like the comment “Nothing will change my mind about returning — not winning, not losing, It’s still fun for me. Being here is fun.” It seems a bit selfish.
By Sideline
September 11, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
Your article is much appreciated, Mr Bradley. Thank you!
By Keepingitreal
September 11, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
I will NOT watch another Brave’s game until Bobby Cox has retired. The man should’ve stepped down after the 1999 WS. Unfortunately, the ATL media doesn’t have the guts or balls to admit it.
Based on the talent and budget the Braves once had, if Bobby was in any other major city with his current record and lack of WS Trophies he would’ve been gone…and yes, including the city of Chicago.
He has been the most over-rated Baseball manager in history. Pleeeeaze move on from Bobby Cox.
Bobby Cox = Lenny Wilkens
By Bulldog Drummond
September 11, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
25 teams would want Cox if he were suddenly available??
Thanks for the first good belly laugh I’ve had in a couple of weeks.
The old guy can barely waddle out to the mound anymore and his best days are clearly behind him.
I agree with a number of previous posters. The Atlanta media—with the exception of a few sports radio talk guys—are mostly a bunch of powder puffs.
By BA
September 11, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this
Bobby’s the MAN.
By bosox fan
September 11, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this
Bobby Cox should have been fired after the 1996 debacle with the Yankees. I could have managed the team of the 90’s to at least 3 world series titles. Bobby is a HOF nose picker. He has my vote on that. Players love him , no wonder, he never bothers them and they don’t even know he is the boss. They are sure they run the team and they are correct. The correlation is with Leo. How great a pitching coach was Leo after he left the HOF staff. The true HOF was Schuerholz and he saw the future and left. This team is in the toilet for years to come, a corporate mess that cares nothing about winning. GO UGA, GO FALCONS and GO GA TECH.
By Mark Bradley
September 11, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
The Leibrandt-Puckett argument is one of the great fallacies in baseball history. The cold truth is that Leibrandt had already faced Puckett twice in that World Series — and had struck him out swinging both times.
The Farnsworth experiment didn’t work in 2005, but he was, at season’s end, the best reliever the Braves had. (Same with Reardon in 1992.)
And if Wohlers was a one-inning pitcher, why did the Yankees tie the game off him in the eighth but leave the bases loaded in the ninth? Wouldn’t it have been the other way around?
By Mark Bradley
September 11, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this
And why does no one credit Cox for his inspired use of Maddux as closer in Game 5 of the 1998 NLCS in San Diego, or for using Smoltz twice in relief in the 1999 NLCS, a series in which he started Game 4? Is it because it’s more convenient just to recycle the same old blasts regardless of the facts?
By bosox fan
September 11, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this
Please enlighten this audience as to 1 BRILLIANT move Bobby Cox ever made in his post season tenure.
By bosoxfan
September 11, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this
You make my argument for me.
By mr baseball
September 11, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this
Cox occasionally made some asture post-season moves, no question. Some of them were essentially forced on him by the failures of the Braves’ allegedly genius former GM, who was a notorious penny pincher when it came to staffing bullpen.
The point with Wohlers in ‘96 and Farnsworth in ‘04 is that Cox hit the panic button with a multi-run lead in the 8th inning and went to closers who were either not used to pitching more than one inning (Wohlers) or who was forced to pitch against a batter he could not get out (Farnsworth vs. Berkman).
Managers with a better sense of game strategy (Leyland, LaRussa, Torre, Piniella) would not have made those mistakes. Cox did.
With the exception of the second World Series against the Yankees, the Braves never faced a clearly superior team in the post-season. The teams they lost to were on approximately the same level or clearly lesser opponents. Among the reasons the Braves lost 13 times in 14 post-seasons was that Cox frequently made suspect moves in critical situations.
He wasn’t wrong all the time, but he was wrong more than someone headed for the Hall of Fame should be. Some folks just won’t admit it.
By wayne
September 11, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this
2008 Braves won 8 out of 35 ONE RUN GAMES. That’s just being out-managed, out maneuvered night after night. Our pen is too talented, Cox’s overuse and mis-use of relievers made them ineffective and injury prone.
By jj
September 11, 2008 3:13 AM | Link to this
It’s time for him to GO.It’s like putting new wine in a old bag,it’s over.Watching the Braves this year and seeing how Bobby has lost what little games manship he never had really sadnens me.He served well,BUT his message and time has pasted.I think the Braves are making a big misstake if he’s back next year.Please Bobby,retire and let the Braves move on.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 11, 2008 4:20 AM | Link to this
I love Bobby Cox. I think the man should be voted into the Hall of Fame immediately. No one runs a smoother clubhouse than Bobby does. His fourteen division winning streak is unparalleled.
That said, managing TWENTY-EIGHT SEASONS with FIFTEEN PLAYOFF TEAMS and ending up with one S-I-N-G-L-E Championship is despicable.
It’s entirely embarrassing. He should have been fired after losing back to back WS (1991-1992). As it was, the 1996 WS was the beginning of the end. An idiot retard could have managed the 1995 team, they were the best team and they knew it from day one.
Wohlers should have been saved for the ninth in game four of the 1996 WS and everybody knows it. I have explained this countless times and I must remind Mark Bradley one more time as to why and how Bobby Cox lost the 1996 WS.
Mike Bielecki was lights out in the 1996 post season. He pitched 6.2 innings and gave up Z-I-L-C-H, no hits, NO RUNS. The man momentarily saved the Braves in game four when he came into the sixth inning with the bases loaded and nobody out and struck out the side preserving a 6-3 Braves lead.
He came out for the seventh inning and punched out the Yankees one - two - three.
And what did Bobby do in the eighth inning?
THATS RIGHT! He tried to fix what wasn’t broken. Cox did something he hadn’t done all season long, he brought Wohlers in to start in eighth and the rest is history.
Mark Wohlers didn’t have a two inning save all season in 1996. And yet, Cox decided to give it a try on the biggest, most pressure packed stage, the World Series.
It was a mistake, plain and simple. If Bielecki pitches the eighth and Wohlers does his normal one inning stint, it ‘s more than likely that Atlanta wins the game, goes up 3 games to 1 in the WS and the Yankees are dead. Atlanta repeats.
So, the moral of the story is, get ready for one more season of embarrassment and disappointment. Cox is coming back to haunt us all.
By BravesFan79
September 11, 2008 4:28 AM | Link to this
I love you Bobby…but PLEASE put someone else in control of the bullpen! And NO MORE career .200 hitters as backups!! (woodward, orr, corky) We need a TRUE ace… a CC, or a Sheets, or a Roy Halliday…and add Jermaine Dye and possibly another bat, and then Inject Smoltz and Hudson after the all star break and well make a serious 2nd half run!
And we have to keep Ohman and Gonzo.
By elainer7
September 11, 2008 6:02 AM | Link to this
Bobby, Maybe you need to go back to little league and learn the fundamentals of baseball… and then come back and teach it to the team you are supposed to be leading. There is a serious lack of discipline going on and you, sir, are to blame for that.
By p
September 11, 2008 6:54 AM | Link to this
That’s bad news.
Give Bobby 3 Hall of Fame pitchers, and he’ll win the NL East every time, though.
By Mark Bradley
September 11, 2008 7:22 AM | Link to this
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but two-inning saves aren’t all that uncommon in postseason. Torre did it with Rivera, and Francona has done it with Papelbon. The rules change in the playoffs.
And let’s talk about Leyland: Great manager, right? Faced Cox in the playoffs and lost to him two times out of three. Do we bash Leyland because he brought in Stan Belinda in Game 7 of the 1992 World Series? Let’s talk about La Russa: Great manager, right? Faced Cox in the playoffs and was 1-1 against him, and La Russa’s loss came when his team couldn’t close out a series in which it led 3-1.
By Dudeman
September 11, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this
OK, let’s assume Bobby Cox leaves. As mark said, no one could have won with this roster. And, not every manager can win with Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz. But, let’s for the sake of argument, do you hire? Remember, changing head coaches, managers or anything, you always make sure to get someone better, and not just make a change for the sake of change (where have we heard the word “change” before)? OK, let’s hear it. Who would you all hire? And MB, who would you hire if BC was leaving???
By glenn
September 11, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this
Bobby Cox has been known as a players manager. I guess that means he is liked and backs his players. That is good to a point. Managing shouldnt be a popularity contest. No mystery the Braves have lacked good starting pitching this year. Must have that to win along with timely hitting and good defense and a closer in the bullpen. I have watched the Braves for many years and this years team like others under Cox have been terrible at moving runners over. They rely too much on the long ball. Hopefully next year we will get better at this. Glenn
By Booger
September 11, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this
It is hard to pick Bobby’s best quality but I know it snot etiquette. Bobby digs in when he thinks he should and probes for the right answer. He sticks to his guns. You can see him in the dugout up to the knuckle in thought.
By Mark Bradley
September 11, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this
I’d hire Grady Little. He was never given a real chance in either Boston or L.A., but he’s a solid, low-key guy who has a background in the Braves’ system. And the Braves’ organization isn’t as panicky as the Red Sox were and the Dodgers are.
By coach
September 11, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
you BOBBY basher’s need to be careful for what you wish for. Yankee’s are doing great without Torre, I see. A great coach can make great people doe GREAT. Countless great players and teams with great players have fallen due to a bad coach. Championship after championship is just not enough for you turds.
By FEAR
September 11, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
Mark, what blunders do you think Bobby made in the postseason if any? Coach named a few and you disagreed with him.
By coach
September 11, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
you BOBBY basher’s need to be careful for what you wish for. Yankee’s are doing great without Torre, I see. A great coach can make great people doe GREAT. Countless great players and teams with great players have fallen due to a bad coach. Championship after championship is just not enough for you turds.
By coach
September 11, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
you BOBBY basher’s need to be careful for what you wish for. Yankee’s are doing great without Torre, I see. A great coach can make great people doe GREAT. Countless great players and teams with great players have fallen due to a bad coach. Championship after championship is just not enough for you turds.
By coach
September 11, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this
you BOBBY basher’s need to be careful for what you wish for. Yankee’s are doing great without Torre, I see. A great coach can make great people doe GREAT. Countless great players and teams with great players have fallen due to a bad coach. Championship after championship is just not enough for you turds.
By coach
September 11, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
you BOBBY basher’s need to be careful for what you wish for. Yankee’s are doing great without Torre, I see. A great coach can make great people doe GREAT. Countless great players and teams with great players have fallen due to a bad coach. Championship after championship is just not enough for you turds.
By coach
September 11, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
you BOBBY basher’s need to be careful for what you wish for. Yankee’s are doing great without Torre, I see. A great coach can make great people doe GREAT. Countless great players and teams with great players have fallen due to a bad coach. Championship after championship is just not enough for you turds.
By coach
September 11, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
you BOBBY basher’s need to be careful for what you wish for. Yankee’s are doing great without Torre, I see. A great coach can make great people doe GREAT. Countless great players and teams with great players have fallen due to a bad coach. Championship after championship is just not enough for you turds.
By coach
September 11, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this
you BOBBY basher’s need to be careful for what you wish for. Yankee’s are doing great without Torre, I see. A great coach can make great people doe GREAT. Countless great players and teams with great players have fallen due to a bad coach. Championship after championship is just not enough for you turds.
By ray
September 11, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
Cox said “I’m probably better now than I’ve ever been.”….. Good thing, or else that “one run defeat on the road” record would be much much longer!
By Mark Bradley
September 11, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this
I questioned — in print — his lineups in Games 3 and 6 of the NLCS against San Diego. (Eddie Perez, Tony Graffanino, Gerald Williams and Danny Bautista — and no Javy Lopez, no Keith Lockhart, no Ryan Klesko, no Michael Tucker.) I know he was playing the lefty-righty platoon thing, but the Braves were down 0-2 and 2-3 in the series when those games began. And they lost both to lefthander Sterling Hitchcock.
I thought he ran through a lot of relievers — Wohlers, then Stanton, finally Reardon — to get to a less a satisfactory matchup in Game 3 of the 1992 World Series. (Candy Maldonado got the winning hit off Reardon, who’d just yielded the Sprague home run two nights earlier.)
You could make the argument that he stayed too long with Glavine in Game 4 of the 2002 division series, but it was 2-0 after one inning and 4-0 after two, so the game was essentially gone anyway. Worse was Cox letting Glavine, who’d been sick and had missed his Game 2 start, go out for the eighth inning of Game 3 in the 1999 World Series. (Girardi singled and Knoblauch homered to tie the game, and then Cox pulled Glavine.)
By BlackberryCobbler
September 11, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
If the manager gets the credit when the team does good, then he must take the credit when they do bad.
If you’re going to give Booby Cox the accolades for all the Braves winning and division titles, then it’s hypocritical to not also give him the credit for the team’s demise.
You can’t ahve it both ways. ‘Nuff said. Booby needs to go.
By Tom
September 11, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
Too bad. The game has passed Bobby by and just being a cheerleader from the dugout and in the clubhouse isn’t enough to beat the stratagies coming from the other dugouts. I think Bobby as a manager is a great person and certainly his players’ best friend and supporter, sometimes to a fault. This Braves team, with the new, young faces and fast feet deserves a chance to win, and without a bunch of bats capable of hitting 3-run homeruns, that’s just not Bobby’s game.
By ray
September 11, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this
Cox has proven he’s good at beating worse teams. But in the playoffs, it’s one WS out of 15 post-seasons, which of course is against more or less eqaul teams. And his one-run game record as well as extra-innings game record is poor. Those are “close games” when the manager does make a difference. So is Cox great… maybe when he team is much better than the other guys.
By jmart1951
September 11, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
Mark, I have to disagree. You can’t give Cox credit for the 4 hall of Famers he had on his teams.That was Ted Turner. Those four HOFers led the Braves season after season but where a manager is important is in close games and the playoffs. This is where Cox’s record reflects his true gifts as a manager. He was a good judge of talent, he knew how to let the veterans run the clubhouse but, at every point his in game managerial skills have come up short. Superior talent overcomes this deficiency over the course of 162 games. It doesn’t overcome this deficiency when playing other talented teams for Championships. Talk to the players (current and past) I have yet to ever hear one of them give credit to Cox for his “in game” prowess. Its like the elepahant in the room. His “in game” skills (or lack thereof) are just not openly discussed.
By Robert
September 11, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
“It would seem — at least to me — pretty hard to dismiss all the first-place finishes and remember only the season (this one) when Cox never had his rotation intact for one turn. Nobody could have won with this team. Nobody, I say.”
Once again Bradley gives us a biased half of the story. Nobody couldve won the division with this team. But I daresay plenty couldve won more than Cox did with this team.
And nobody couldve lost with the Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz teams
Bobby Cox is, hands down, the worst manager of all time, in any sport
The moment he said he’d be back in ‘09 is the momenet the Braves were eliminated from contention for the World Series title in ‘09
By Robert
September 11, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this
“Torre wasn’t pushed out for Cox. It was the other way around. Cox was fired after the 1981 season, whereupon the Braves hired Torre. “
And now compare the results. Essentially the same team, but Torre got a lot more results out of ‘em
“Do I think another team would try to hire Cox if he no longer managed the Braves?”
ZERO. What they like us to think they’d do and what they’d actually do are two different things.
Bradley - the team with by far the worst record in one run games in the league - the team ever extending a big league record for one run games on the road - this team isnt unlucky - it’s not mojo or superstition - it’s explainable -
They are the worst managed team in the league
By Robert
September 11, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
“I agree nobody could have won with this team, but a good manager would have had them competitive”
I wont even go that far. I’ll just say that with a good manager, they wouldnt have flat out quit like they did, and they wouldne be 8-27 in one run games
By George
September 11, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
Good to know we have so many Hall of Fame Managers out there waiting to take Bobby’s place…..Now what is your record of wins and losses again?
By GaCracker
September 11, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
Time to go Bobby. Please take Blane Boyer with you! Anyone who sets the record for one run losses on the road (probably will never be broken) is the George W. Bush of baseball managers. He doesn’t know how to generate runs, and plays the righty/lefty stategy without regard to statistics or performance. Fire him and bring in Bill James as a consultant. He helped break the Ruth curse with the Red Sox. He knows how to correctly assess performance and gain the winning edge!
By Phil
September 11, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Do I think another team would try to hire Cox if he no longer managed the Braves? Only about 25 of them.
This has got to the THE most moronic statement you have ever made Bradley. Even more so than “the Braves will be in First place by July 4th and pulling away in September” statement.
There is NO team in baseball that would want this bafoon. You probably also believe that if Bobby Bowden left Florida State every college in America would want him including Southern Cal, Ohio State, Oklahoma and Georgia.
By Gran Jen
September 11, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
Please tell me which major league teams all you ‘Bobby bashers’ manage for?????? Don’t you need to be out there managing your teams instead of wasting time with this blog?????
By Nice Guy
September 11, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
First off, Bobby Cox is one of the greatest managers of all time in any sport, Period. Here’s why.
when Bobby took over the Braves as GM in the mid 80’s, he didn’t inherit great talent and a great farm system, he built it from scratch. Managers and Head Coaches who win World titles to me are overrated because they inherit what some else built and they take the credit and go down in history as a great manager and head coach. That’s not taking anything away from them personally or there ability to manage or coach, but overrated by the media.
Second, I rank winning 14 straight division title equal to winning World Championships in any sport because it’s so difficult to do every year when you’re the one that built it. As a personal manager, Bobby is one the best period, but as a team/organization, no, the Braves can’t touch the Yankees, Celtics, Steelers, 49ers, Canadians, Packers, etc. over history of time.
Bobby Cox has accomplished more as a Manager than any Manager or Head Coach in sports history in my opinion. But of course he won’t get the credit because, “Well, he only has one World Title”. So what, don’t punish him personally, give the man his due, he’s one of the greatest because he built a organization that had nothing and turned it into a consistent winner, not win one here and there but every year. Other organizations begin to pattern themselves after the Braves but people don’t see it that way.
OF course I know we eventually have to move on when you’re not winning any more but for now give him his respect until he’s ready.
So naturally the man wants to go out a winner. Because he became accustomed to winning once he develop the habit of winning. If Bobby wants to come back, let him come back.
By sinnbad
September 11, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
Bobby Cox is one of the best managers ever. When a team loses as many players to injury as the Braves did this year, they would have to be he best team ever to still win it all. I blame the new owners for not having a few more quality bats since they would not spend the money. For all the Bobby bashers, you apparently don’t know baseball. As a true Braves fan, I thank Bobby for the best years in franchise history.
By Kelley
September 11, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
The majority of people in this state do not deserve to have such a great LEADER as Bobby Cox as the Braves’ coach because they don’t have the good sense to recognize how great he is.
He flat out knows, preaches, lives, and models good leadership day in and day out.
Most of you wouldn’t know true, good leadership ability if it hit you square in the face.
Thank goodness he is coming back. One of the best EVER (yes, the record proves it). Hall of Fame Bound, ask anyone actually IN MLB and they will tell you.
It will be a sad, sad day when he finally does call it quits.
By Herschel Talker
September 11, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Time to put Booby out to pasture.
By Phil
September 11, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
You Bobby lovers want to use the injury excuse for everything. Is injuries the reason we haven’t made the playoffs in 3 years?? Was Andruw Jones injured all last season? I don’t think so yet that idiot Cox kept him in the lineup and batting clean up with a .210 average. Torre recognized in a matter of weeks what a lazy bum Andruw is and benched him. Cox has lost it folks, it’s been going on for years, it’s not because of injuries.
By BUSHWACKER
September 11, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
We need a Lou Pinella type to kick these rich boys in the butt, this is disgraceful.
Better yet, Peter Rose would be perfect for this lazy bunch if that moron in Milwuakee would get over his own personal problem with PETE.
By the way, Chipper is good,but the greatest switch hitter of all time is PETE ROSE!
By Kelley
September 11, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
And might I say “Thank You” to all of you who, while sitting in your cubicle at work (or perhaps in your mom’s basement) conintue to argue with Mark Bradley and he continues to post facts and figures to prove why you are wrong.
Thank you because it just gives me such a good laugh! It makes me laugh that those of you who have never actually spent one second in MLB think you know more than a journalist who is actually covering MLB day in and day out.
By TOMY fOURNIER
September 11, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
PLEASE MR. BRADLEY…STOP THINKING IN THE PAST…NOW IS NOW…THE PRESENT…AND MR “MORON” COX NOW IS DISASTROUS..OUT OF TIME..HE HAVE TO GO …TOGETHER WITH THE OLD GOAT AND MR P AND MR MC…AND MAYBE SOME GUY OF THE ATLANTAS MANAGEMENT…AND THEM….GO ATLANTA…GO!!!
By Phil
September 11, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
From Coach:
you BOBBY basher’s need to be careful for what you wish for. Yankee’s are doing great without Torre, I see.
Hate to tell you this Coach, the Yankees are NOT going to make the playoffs this year while Torre’s new team the Dodgers are in first place. I would take that kind of deal for Cox in a heartbeat.
By coach k
September 11, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
I am tired of the excuses for this club. Yea 14 divison championships, in a division that was pretty weak ,and you had 3 hall of famers on the staff. This team should have won no less than 4 World Championships and we always got outmanaged and outhutled by teams that we should have crushed. I have said for 12 yrs Cox is the most overrated mgr EVER. This team should have been more competitive this yr ..20 games out????? Yes we had injurys but you also did not count on Jurgens and Campillo pitching so well. Just night before last Kotchman chases a fowl ball into the dugout and not one freaking guy got to the rail to help him, luckily he caught and did not fall down the steps. This is just a bunch of guys playing ball, not a team. This roster the last 2 yrs was good enough to make a run so I am tired of the excuses it is time to hold Cox accountable. Need a change at the helm or it will be the same ole crap next yr.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 11, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
Tony La Russa has two World Championship teams. One in the A.L and the other in the N.L
Joe Torre has four World Championship teams and both are still effective, winning managers. Cox is not..
Bradley, Cox can’t hold a candle to La Russa or Torre and YOU DAMN WELL KNOW IT.
Cox is what he is, A ONE HIT WONDER. The most overrated manager to ever set foot on the baseball diamond.The man has lost more post season games than any other manager in history.
I’ll say it again, TWENTY-EIGHT SEASONS , FIFTEEN PLAYOFF TEAMS.
ONE S-I-N-G-L-E CHAMPIONSHIP. It is disgraceful, embarrassing, disturbing and completely disgusting.
By demavrick
September 11, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Any Braves’ fan who does not appreicate the work Bobby Cox did for the Braves needs to blue a clue.
As a Met fan Bobby Cox can manage the Mets anytime he wants IMHO!
By Jack G
September 11, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
Assume for the sake of arguement that Cox was the best—the greatest manager of all time. But most all of those managerial skills have erroded. He is no longer the manager that he once WAS. The last 3 years have been an embarassment to Cox and the Braves organization. You can credit the GM or anyone elese in the organization with the players acquired or let go to make up the team. However dont think for one minute that player moves were not approved or initiated by Cox. Also his hireing of TP and Roger showed how much his judgement is now impaired.
No matter what kind of record he has as Manager of the Braves, they owe him nothing. Baseball is a game of what are you doing for me now, not what you did for me yesteryear.
By Phil
September 11, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Amen Jack G.
Your analogy is right on. Same thing goes for Bobby Bowden although in case I think most everyone will agree he was indeed a great coach. Both Cox and Bowden’s skills have eroded yet they can’t see it. In Cox’s case, he is completely dillusional by thinking “he’s better than he’s ever been.” This is scary, really scary.
By vic
September 11, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
kelly-It don’t matter where your a@@ is sitting…*Mark *continues to post facts and figures to prove you wrong? and being a journalist makes you baseball smart? give me a break!! If you believe everything your read from ajc your a dum-a@@. All of ajc beat writers suck up to Bobby and Braves. If not so why do they never question anything he does and never ask him a tough question.
Mark’s facts and figures are no better than Coach’s and Mr. Baseball’s facts and figures. Everyone can see whats going on and judge for themselves. Bobby needs to retire and I’d bet my retirement no major league team would call.
By Scott Hornibrook
September 11, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Bobby Cox is one the greatest managers of all time. The fans that are against him will learn after he is gone, how much he will be missed. I hope Bobby manages the Braves for many years to come.
GO BRAVES !
By GT
September 11, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Cox’s response is the greatest indication yet next year will be no different. To the extent he holds any sway over Wren’s moves in the offseason, you can be sure we’ll sign Glavine before we find any other additions to the starting rotation. Then we’ll go after Derek Lowe or some other #3 caliber starter, who will inevitbly be sold as “the face of the Braves turnaround”.
Its these kinds of Cox answers that tell me the Braves will be out of any race by July next year.
By repo man
September 11, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
You can put Lipstick on a Donkey and its still a Donkey.
By Robert
September 11, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Now I WILL say that I dont think Cox’s skills have eroded.
He is no better or worse than he ever has been. Of course, given that he couldnt possibly be worse, ….
All the people who say we will miss Cox
I actually would rather watch a 50-win roster that does its best and somehow wins 55 than to watch an entitled group that should win 105 games and a World Series pat themselves on their fat collective asses over 95 wins and another division title
Cox’s team’s have zero fundamentals, zero running game, zero conditioning, and as long as your diaper stays clean and you dont dis the BIG Donk, zero accountability
No thanx
And to the Mets fan who would let Cox manage the Mets - Dude how I WISH you ran the Mets and I ran the Braves. I’d pay you to take Cox if you’d promise to keep him
By joebrave
September 11, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
Or, you can put lipstick on Sarah Palin and you still have a pig. Hey, let’s get her to manage next year. She has “executive” experience, so she can certainly manage a baseball team.
By Nate
September 11, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
The reason Bobby Cox is forced to put in 5 relievers a game is because the starting pitchers can’t make it out of the 6th inning, even with a shutout! Roger McDowell is the real thorn here. Terry P isn’t that great of a hitting coach either.Bobby can stay as long as he desires. Nobody thought Francouer would have this kind of a year. Also, our pitchers have been hurt all year. Smoltz, Hampton, Glavine, Hampton, Acosta, Moylan, Soriano, etc…Bring back Smoltzie, leave Glavine, and get some bats, along with CC or Burnett. Braves will be back in 09, and all of you Bobby bashers will be forced to shut the hell up.
By Nate
September 11, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
The reason Bobby Cox is forced to put in 5 relievers a game is because the starting pitchers can’t make it out of the 6th inning, even with a shutout! Roger McDowell is the real thorn here. Terry P isn’t that great of a hitting coach either.Bobby can stay as long as he desires. Nobody thought Francouer would have this kind of a year. Also, our pitchers have been hurt all year. Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, Acosta, Moylan, Soriano, etc…Bring back Smoltzie, leave Glavine, and get some bats, along with CC or Burnett. Braves will be back in 09, and all of you Bobby bashers will be forced to shut the hell up.
By Kentavo
September 11, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s best job managing was 2005 - the year of the Baby Braves.
But I think it’s time for him to go. He can move to the front office.
With a young(er) team, we need more of hardline kind of manager that stresses fundamental play.
I don’t like Boyer, but surely he’d be more effective if he wasn’t run into the ground by Cox.
I think these three things can be blamed on Cox:
Refute that, Bloggers or Bradley
By Bobby Cox
September 11, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
I can’t see any reason not to bring cox back and let him run the team next year. Being realistic, I hae a hard time seeing the braves competing in that division next season. It’s not prudent to count on hudson coming back and giving them anything (see gonzalez, mike), although 2010 is realistic. Moylan is probably in the same boat. Most of the young pitchers need some seasoning, I’m not saying they won’t be effective ML starters, but they need time. I’d like to see the team offer a longer contract to several of the younger starters on the market, such as perez, sabathia, or sheets. That give them a good 1-2 punch when hudson returns. Other than that, I wouldn’t spend money on multi year deals with free agents. This team needs to get younger and get rid of many of the multi-year deals. I think glavine and smoltz would be great signings if they are willing to sign 1 year deals. The money isn’t as important as the flexibility in several years. Their is no reason to treat next season as one where we are in a penant race, we won’t be. Enjoy the nostalgia from the long time braves and plan for 2010 or 2011.
By Kelley
September 11, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
To Vic:
Yes, calling me a name really helps to argue that point that you are really an intelligent person.
Also Vic, two points:
Before saying to someone “your a dumb a#$” you should really be aware that the grammatically correct way to word that would be “YOU”RE a dumb a*&”
Also, your quote “If not so why do they never question anything he does and never ask a tough question.” is actually a question and requires a question mark at the end.
Wow Vic, it’s truly shocking that a major newspaper hasn’t hired YOU yet as a journalist. I can really see where you think you have the right to insult people like myself and Mr. Bradley.
By Jeff R
September 11, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
It’s time for Liberty Media to step up and authorize the Braves’ front office to significantly increase payroll. The small, annual increases have been better than nothing, but this franchise needs to be budgeted in the $120 million range for payroll. Liberty Media’s got the money; we’ll see just how serious they are this winter when they authorize numbers.
By Mark Bradley
September 11, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
I often wish Cox had won a second World Series just so we wouldn’t have to brook those “only one World Series!” diatribes. But getting to hang around baseball men — thanks for noticing, Kelley — has given me a deeper appreciation of the way they think. And they believe, to a man, that the true test of a manager is the regular season.
For example: Tony La Russa was swept by the Reds in 1990 and lost in five games to the Dodgers in 1988 when he had far superior teams, but in 2006 he won a World Series with a team that went 83-80. Until then, he fell in that “only one World Series” category with Cox — and with Earl Weaver.
By Robert
September 11, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
“Bobby’s best job managing was 2005 - the year of the Baby Braves”
Bobby’s best job managing was from game 115 thru the end of the season in 1994
By Robert
September 11, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley -
If Bobby Cox is the most over-rated manager of all time, then LaRussa is second and Weaver is third
Major league baseball is a big good ole boys club. Noone says anything bad about anyone else that’s with them inside the game - but what other folks in baseball SAY about Bobby Cox and what they really think are two very different things - I assure you of that
The job of the other clubs is to beat you, and the unwritten code is to not say anything bad about a crony. What better way than to endlessly laud an idiot who manages your most dangerous competitor?
You wish Cox had a second World Series title? I wish he’d won half as many as should have with the Braves - that’d be 3 at least.
But the facts are the facts, and the donkey is a donkey.
No matter how much y’all spin and shuck and jive in apologizing for and defending him
As to who could replace Cox - absolutely ANYBODY not named Bobby Valentine or Mike Hargrove would be an improvement.
By Andrew
September 11, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
All of you Bobby Cox haters are definitely not true Braves fans. He and Smoltz are the only two people who were in the dugout for the 14 consecutive Division Titles. Is that just luck? Try flipping a coin 14 times in a row and getting the same result every time. It is rare for a manager to both win and be well liked, but Bobby has done it. Every time I see a poll of which manager a player would want to play for, Bobby finishes first (by a long shot). He has the respect all players in the league and he still wins. The only reason the Yankees won multiple World Series titles in the 1990’s was because they had the highest payroll in baseball and bunch of steroid users. Take them away and the Braves were the team of the 90’s.
By aps
September 11, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Maybe spring training 2009 the Braves will concentrate on conditioning and fundamentals instead of golf.
By Robert
September 11, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
“All of you Bobby Cox haters are definitely not true Braves fans. He and Smoltz are the only two people who were in the dugout for the 14 consecutive Division Titles. Is that just luck?”
Untrue. I am as big a Braves fan as anybody. 14 consecutive division titles is NOT just luck.
But that doesnt mean it was Cox.
It was, more than anything, Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz healthy for most of the primes of their careers (thank you LEO MAZZONE)
The Braves teams of the 90’s dominated lesser competition, as superior talent will do. When they came up against equal or even near equal talent, such as they did in the playoffs, their record was unimpressive
Beating four other teams 14 straight times when your talent is FAR superior to theirs is not that big a deal.
Cox was along for the ride. Any human being not named Bobby Valentine or Mike Hargrove couldve won most if not all or more of those Division Titles
And division titles aint worth a flip anyway.
Cox’s idiocy is manifest in his “it’s a crapshoot” philosophy about the playoffs. The playoffs only become a crapshoot when a team with superior talent has it beaten into their heads that they have no edge, that the result will be a crapshoot. Guess what, you have given the inferior team an equal chance. That’s what Cox taught, that’s what Cox did, and that’s what happened to Cox’s teams. They found EXCUSES - umpires, luck, whatever, instead of taking accountability
But the biggest humdinger of the day had to be
“And why does no one credit Cox for his inspired use of Maddux as closer in Game 5 of the 1998 NLCS in San Diego”
If I recall, Cox’s team didnt show up for the 1998 NLCS. You know, if they had been better managed and had dominated an inferior Padre team like they should have, maybe the manager wouldnt have had to make the “brilliant” desperation move of using Maddux in relief in Game 5. But let’s not soil Cox’s legacy with facts or logic
By Robert
September 11, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
“The Leibrandt-Puckett argument is one of the great fallacies in baseball history. The cold truth is that Leibrandt had already faced Puckett twice in that World Series — and had struck him out swinging both times”
Mr Bradley
1 - Getting lucky withe the results of a bad matchup twice in Game One does NOT mean it is smart to choose that matchup in extra innings of Game Six
Liebrandt started game one, and labored thru four innings during which he gave up four earnies and 8 baserunners. During that poor outing, he happened to strike Puckett out twice
Coming off that awesome performance, Cox opted not to use Liebrandt again in the Series, until he suddenly figured Liebrandt was a good choice to try and get Puckett out a third time when it was all on the line
I can just see the rocks grinding in Cox’s head as he released fart gas from his rectum and thought to himself - “well gee, he struck Kirby out TWICE in game one, this seems like a good idea”
By bernie
September 11, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Cox if you care about the Braves at all you’ll retire and ride on into the sunset and let them start anew. Please take Shurholtz and Wren with you.I hope Arthur Blank makes a run for the Braves and gets them. The product on the field right now is pitiful.
By bernie
September 11, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Cox if you care about the Braves at all you’ll retire and ride on into the sunset and let them start anew. Please take Shurholtz and Wren with you.I hope Arthur Blank makes a run for the Braves and gets them. The product on the field right now is pitiful.
By bernie
September 11, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Cox if you care about the Braves at all you’ll retire and ride on into the sunset and let them start anew. Please take Shurholtz and Wren with you.I hope Arthur Blank makes a run for the Braves and gets them. The product on the field right now is pitiful.
By Bob
September 11, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Listen at you fools! Most of you Bobby Cox haters must be Met fans that are lost. Go to your own newspaper and whine! As for all of you “bandwagon” Braves fans, imagine where this franchise would be without Cox. He was responsible for a large part of the success in the 90’s. In case you’ve forgotten, he became manager midway through the 1990 campaign.Prior to that, Cox had spent four seasons as General Manager, accumulating “franchise” players, including Ron Gant, Tom Glavine, Steve Avery, Pete Smith, David Justice, and John Smoltz. He was also responsible for drafting Chipper Jones with the first overall pick in the 1990 draft. Can any of you fathom what these past 15 or so years would’ve been like without the likes of Chipper, Smoltz, or Glavine? Yeah, neither can I. So jump on board, suck it up, or go become a Yankee fan! Get a clue.
By Bob
September 11, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Listen at you fools! Most of you Bobby Cox haters must be Met fans that are lost. Go to your own newspaper and whine! As for all of you “bandwagon” Braves fans, imagine where this franchise would be without Cox. He was responsible for a large part of the success in the 90’s. In case you’ve forgotten, he became manager midway through the 1990 campaign.Prior to that, Cox had spent four seasons as General Manager, accumulating “franchise” players, including Ron Gant, Tom Glavine, Steve Avery, Pete Smith, David Justice, and John Smoltz. He was also responsible for drafting Chipper Jones with the first overall pick in the 1990 draft. Can any of you fathom what these past 15 or so years would’ve been like without the likes of Chipper, Smoltz, or Glavine? Yeah, neither can I. So jump on board, suck it up, or go become a Yankee fan! Get a clue.
By AthensBob
September 11, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
Thanks for defending Bobby, Mark.
Favorite manager of all-time.
Were it possible, I’d want him in the Braves dugout forever.
By Mike D.
September 11, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Your time has come. BYE BYE BOBBY. You selfish old man. We need a manager that does not sit on his a** and watch a 3run lead disappear as normal or if we are lucky ( haha ), go to the post season and CHOKE. WHERE IS TED TURNER…PLEASE BUY BACK THE BRAVES. Arthur Blank, HELP.
By Robert
September 11, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Mr Bradley - The biggest fallacy in baseball history is the idea that Bobby Cox is a great manager
Give me Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz in their primes, put them in a division that maybe had one other seriously good team every fourth year or so, and the moldy piece of pizza in the back of my refrigerator couldve won a bunch of division titles, and a few more World Series rings than Donk did to boot
By Nomo Cox
September 11, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
I don’t think we’ll have to put up with Mr. Cox too much next season. He’s a heart attack ready to happen. Probably by the first of June he’ll be dead or the dr. will be telling him no mas. Let him be a roving manager for all 25 teams if you think they are so hot for him. He can manage one game per team on a rotating basis. That way every team can watch him pick his nose in person and blow up there bullpen 6 times during the season.
By KEITH
September 11, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
BOBBY COX TIMES HAS COME AND GONE,THAT’S WHY I DON’T ROOT FOR THEM .WHO CARES ABOUT DIV. TITLES IT’S THE WORLD SERIES OR NOTHING.IF HE MANAGED IN A BIG MARKET(BOSTON,NY,CHICAGO) HIS BUTT WOULD BE LONG GONE.UNTIL THEY GET RID OF HIM THE BRAVES WON’T WIN A THING!!!!
By John
September 11, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox’s decision to stay another year will be good news to the players who know now that less than 100% effort will be covered by the manager and bad news to Braves fans who now have to endure another season of poor play and effort by their team.
By gayle
September 11, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this
What is it about people in sports that makes it simply impossible for them to know when it’s time to go? How many tearful press conferences have we endured?
So many comments here, but I think putting BC in the same boat with Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno is the most appropriate. Good at one time, but hanging on for who knows what?
Skills, record, love of players and colleagues notwithstanding, it’s has been his time to go for years.
Three years straight this team has not been in the postseason and the four years before that the Braves were knocked out in the first round.
To coin an overused phrase from a couple of fellows running around the country, it’s time for a change!
By bruce
September 12, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this
Mark, Your follow-on comments make the strong article even stronger. I have enjoyed reading your banter back… some fine slam dunks on your part, maybe even a 360 slam (covered all the angles). Thanks.
By Robert
September 12, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
“And let’s talk about Leyland: Great manager, right? Faced Cox in the playoffs and lost to him two times out of three.”
Yeah. Leyland had half the team Cox had and lost to him on a freak play in game 7. Terrible manager.
“Do we bash Leyland because he brought in Stan Belinda in Game 7 of the 1992 World Series?”
No, since he didnt
“Let’s talk about La Russa: Great manager, right?”
No. Next question
By Kashi
September 12, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this
I have an advise for Frency. All pitchers know by now that they don’t have to throw strick to get Frency out. Why don’t Bobby tell him do NOT swing anything. Just go up to the plate and watch where balls are traveling. Do NOT SWING for couple days and he might get something to hack after pitchers get tired. Man…Frenchy can’t even hit ball on T_Stand.
By Mark Bradley
September 12, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Thanks, Bruce.
And no, Leyland didn’t bring in Stan Belinda in Game 7 of the 1992 World Series. It was Game 7 of the NLCS.
By Robert
September 12, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
Why dont I criticize Leyland for bringing in Belinda in the 9th inning of Game 7 of the 1992 NLCS?
Is it because I dont see an issue with bringing in your closer to try and do his job in his usual accustomed situation? Partly
But mostly, I dont criticize Leyland for bringing in Belinda in the 9th inning of Game 7 of the 1992 NLCS becuase I am a Braves fan and not a Pirates fan
I dont CARE what Leyland does.
And if Leyland happens to do something silly, I certainly dont see it as sanction to keep Cox even though he does something stupid nearly every waking minute
“Well this one time another manager somewehre did something that some people thought was questionable, so that justifies the Braves keeping a manager with the IQ of a pickle” — Illogical Bobby Cox apologist rationalization number 257
By Frank
September 13, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
Okay, I’ve mentioned this on a couple of Dave O’Brien blogs…but I will mention it again…..
I still say..as much as I like Bobby….how bout Buck Showalter?
He’s a In-your-face-type who would get in the guys’ faces and get them to shape up or ship out (sorta-speak).
I would not mind Buck in a Braves uni as the Braves manager.
By Booger
September 14, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this
Cox not ready to call it a career By Mark Bradley | Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 06:42 PM
CAN I CALL IT A CAREER FOR HIM?
By Phil
September 15, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Ned Yost is available, we need to jump on this. Cox needs to do the honorable thing and step aside so we can make that move. He won’t do it though, he thinks he can still get the job done. Wren needs to grow up and do his job and go after Yost.
By greg kaminski
September 19, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
how cox and co. gets a pass year after year after………..is beyond belief!!!without being held accountable for the past 3 losing seasons, it only shows the ‘softness’ of the braves ownership/managment. it was always a ‘good ol boy organization’ and i guess it will stay one……………at least for another year. GO PHILLLIEEESSS!!!!!