Home > Mark Bradley > Archives > 2008 > August > 31 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USRestoring Braves’ luster will take years
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The era of eminence has ended. The Braves are weaker than at any time since 1990, and they’re apt to get worse before they get better.
They geared up for one last stand, but we see now that gearing up was also a masking action. By banking so heavily on aging pitchers and one high-priced rental, they sought to hide how threadbare this organization has become. Then the pitchers got hurt and Mark Teixeira got traded, and as we scan next season’s prospective roster we’re moved to ask: Is this all there is?
Frank Wren, the general manager since October 2007, believes his team “has the resources and the foundation” to retool. “We still need pieces,” he said, “but we don’t need a major overhaul.”
Hearing, a man asked: “Pieces?”
Said Wren: “They’re not little pieces — they’re big pieces.”
To look at this team is to see only two big-time players, and one of those will turn 37 in April. Writing for SI.com, Nate Silver of Baseball Prospectus offered a ranking of the top 50 players around which an organization could build, and only one Brave — Brian McCann, at No. 11 — made the list. Chipper Jones, who has missed 24 games since June 1, was included as an “honorable mention.”
As it stands, Jair Jurrjens — who’s 22 and who has won two of nine starts since the All-Star break — would be the 2009 Opening Day pitcher. Three members of this proposed-but-never-intact rotation aren’t under contract beyond this season: Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton will be free agents, and John Smoltz failed to reach his vesting option by working the required 200 innings. And Tim Hudson, a fourth member, has had surgery. (As has Smoltz. As has Glavine.)
Wren: “It’s too early to talk to John and Tommy [about possible new contracts] until we get into the offseason and we have more information. There’s no sense talking about it now.”
The outfield is in similar shambles. Mark Kotsay is gone. Jordan Schafer, the heir apparent, was suspended 50 games for using HGH; now reinstated, he’s hitting .269 in Class AA with more strikeouts than hits. Jeff Francoeur is fighting to keep his average above .230. Matt Diaz hasn’t played since May. Gregor Blanco and Omar Infante have four homers between them.
Question: Do you see a “foundation”?
Yes, Wren could make a trade (or two, or three) to address deepening deficiencies, but who among Braves would yield the needed return? Yunel Escobar? (And who plays shortstop if he leaves?) Casey Kotchman? (Didn’t he just get here?) Jarrod Saltalamacchia? (Whoops, already did that deal.)
Then there’s free agency. The Braves have sworn off big-ticket signings for a decade, but there’s really no other option. With the $37 million that’s no longer earmarked for Smoltz, Hampton and Glavine, Wren has to take a look. He probably won’t like what he finds. Can anyone outbid the Yankees for CC Sabathia? Is Pat Burrell, who has had two 100-RBI seasons, worth $15 million per annum? Is Adam Dunn, who has had three?
“I don’t know what we’re going to pay [in free agency], but it has to be a function of putting together a whole team,” Wren said. “Our overriding view is that you put a team together, not just one player.”
That, sad to say, is the point. The Braves, who are 222-239 since Opening Day 2006, no longer have many real players, nor are they much of a team. The “great, grand organization” — John Schuerholz’s description — is just another mediocrity. Restoring its luster will take years.
Not months. Years.
Permalink | Comments (216) | Post your comment | Categories: Braves/MLB
Comments
By Mike
August 31, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
Yep. While I’m not happy I am nostalgic—it reminds me of the bad old days of attending games at old Atlanta Stadium with 3000 of my closest friends. Oh well. Let the real fans come on out and band together.
I do think—and I’m not happy to say this—that Bobby Cox should go ahead and retire after this year. It seems to me that the Braves’ best bet is to try to put together a team that can manufacture runs—taking advantage of the speed of guys like Anderson and Blanco—and I don’t think that Bobby does his best managing under those circumstances.
By hop
August 31, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
thanks to corporate ownership and the denial from the braves top brass for the last three years, this team is in total shambles.
the braves will NEVER pay the price to get the necessary players through free agency, and they have gutted the farm system with unwise trades and poor draft selections.
here is hoping that the braves denver owners will do the right thing and put the team on the block!
they really have no interest ; the deal was made so they could unload all of their corporate shares with time warner.
please please put this team on the market so arthur blank or someone local, who gives a rats-a will buy the team.
By Saddened Fan
August 31, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this
What has disappointed me the most with this downward slide is how meekly the Braves are going. Bobby’s job was and is to get them motivated, enthused, prepared and ready to play and I can’t say I have seen that since Tex left. It’s OK to have a pity party for a game or two, but since then the team (for the most part) is mailing it in. Bobby can’t manage for the 3 run homer with this crew and ought to think hard about retiring and letting someone willing to manage a small ball crew deal with the team in the future. Go with someone new from outside the organization, Terry Pendleton (heir apparent?) will do as poorly managing as he has as a hitting coach these last few years.
I have also seen comments in the Journal/Constituion about the ebb of professionalism in the locker room. That, in part, is evidence of Bobby’s diminishing influence and evidence of a need for player leadership. It is time (the few years left) for Chipper to stand up and be the leader (vocally), and not the stoic example any more. Stoicism is not going to help here. Show/teach the others what being a professional means, lead the way.
Last, John Schuerholz’s legacy is an empty cupboard. It is now up to Frank Wren to do more than what little he has done. Let’s be honest, wish our heroes of the past well and start re-building from the draft up. Free agents as a bridge where affordable, but draft carefully and start with pitchers because that is what allowed the Braves to excel for so many years.
The bill for 14 years of good times has come due.
By Raleigh Brave
August 31, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
Yes to that. Faceless corporate ownership has been a disaster. But alas it’s too late. The Braves are done. Part of the problem is the lost exposure on TBS. The fan base is diminishing and the Braves are becoming just another small market team. Who will want to come here? No more “Baby Braves.” No more of the old guard. It all went to hell very quickly. I looked at their lineup today and I thought it didn’t even look like a major league lineup. I bet they finish behind Washington. They could lose 100 this year and next. They’re going to be more like the Royals and the Mariners than the Yankees and Red Sox. What a shame. They stink. And it’s skunk stink. It’s a stink they can’t get rid of any time soon.
By BravesFan79
August 31, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
I honestly believe this team can make a run next year and heres how. Sign 2 BIG name free agents, either 2 aces, or a ACE and a big time slugger.
Please dont try and pass off a #3 guy as a ace Wren, it just wont do.
Make SURE we have good backups for escobar, mccan, and chipper. Im tired of seeing career pinch .200 hitters up late in the game in crucial situations (woodcrap, orr, corky, thorman)
If Francour returns to form, and bring back Smoltz and Hudson around the All Star break…. (smoltz in the pen).. then i think we could make a SERIOUS run towards the playoffs next year!! Go Braves!
By Raleigh Brave
August 31, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Yes to that. Faceless corporate ownership has been a disaster. But alas it’s too late. The Braves are done. Part of the problem is the lost exposure on TBS. The fan base is diminishing and the Braves are becoming just another small market team. Who will want to come here? No more “Baby Braves.” No more of the old guard. It all went to hell very quickly. I looked at their lineup today and I thought it didn’t even look like a major league lineup. I bet they finish behind Washington. They could lose 100 this year and next. They’re going to be more like the Royals and the Mariners than the Yankees and Red Sox. What a shame. They stink. And it’s skunk stink. It’s a stink they can’t get rid of any time soon.
By Raleigh Brave
August 31, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Yes to that. Faceless corporate ownership has been a disaster. But alas it’s too late. The Braves are done. Part of the problem is the lost exposure on TBS. The fan base is diminishing and the Braves are becoming just another small market team. Who will want to come here? No more “Baby Braves.” No more of the old guard. It all went to hell very quickly. I looked at their lineup today and I thought it didn’t even look like a major league lineup. I bet they finish behind Washington. They could lose 100 this year and next. They’re going to be more like the Royals and the Mariners than the Yankees and Red Sox. What a shame. They stink. And it’s skunk stink. It’s a stink they can’t get rid of any time soon.
By Tom A. Hawk
August 31, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Mark you sound like all the other fair weather Braves fans out there who panic when the team has one bad year. Let’s remember, the Braves finished over .500 last year, and it not for significant injuries to 4 of their starters, who knows where this team would be! Your stats and facts are so misleading it’s ridiculous. Your stats on Blanco and Infante are the worst. Infante has been an absolute steal, regardless of how many home runs he has hit. The Braves have a ton of money to spend in the off season to make themselves competitive next year. This team has a lot more hope than you give them.
By HoustonBrave
August 31, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
Cox needs to retire period. He has single handedly lost many of the one run games with his favoritism toward certain players and not fielding his best. The one run record is a reflection of him and his managing of the bullpen. Yes we need some players that can hit but Bobby only needs to look in the mirror to see why this team is in free fall.
By HockeyDawg
August 31, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
Mark, sadly I think there’s an awful lot of truth in what you are saying! While it’s true that they’ve been extremely unlucky w/ injuries this year, a lot of their lousy record can be attributed to their decision to rely so much on pitchers who were either an injury risk (Smoltz, Hampton, & Soriano), old (Glavine), or of questionable ability (Reyes & James). Granted, no one could foresee the injuries to Hudson & Moylan, nor the utter collapse of Francoeur. But the lack of quality prospects at the upper levels of their minor league teams has really become evident this year.
At this point, it looks like they need to put an emphasis on scouting and redouble their efforts to rebuild their minor league system. Maybe bring in a few mid-level free agents to help them bridge the gap until some younger players can be developed. They need to see if they can find a shrink who can help Frenchy rebuild his confidence, and they should NOT trade McCann or Escobar, who are about the only proven young top quality major leaguers on their roster currently. They should instead build around those two.
I think you’re right. It looks like they’re gonna be pretty bad for a couple of years. But if they can rebuild the farm system and not make foolish free agent contract offers, they have the chance of being good again maybe by 2011.
By captain Midnight
August 31, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Well you are something else. A couple of months ago you stated the Braves would run away with the pennant. Now you say they are done for years. Light up another joint.
By BravesFan79
August 31, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Raleigh Brave: How are the Braves a SMALL market team? Last time i checked the true small market cities were places like Raleigh, KC, New Orleans, Tampa Bay…. i dont think u can call the most powerfull city in the South “small market” I dont think a city of 5 million as small market…with thousands of fans in surrounding states as well.
What we NEED is Author Blank to buy the team…and invest some $$ into it..and youll see the fans come back when theres a product worth watching on the field.
As for TBS… i HATE those b*******… i refuse to watch House of Pain, or any other CRAP they replaced the Braves with. I have YET to watch a MLB game on TBS this year… i mean are the Yankess and Sox not force fed down our throats enough already?
Lets hope Wren isnt serious about adding abunch of “small pieces” …whats that get us? overpaying for some 4 or 5 type starters?
And if we dont sign Ohman for next year,ill know Wren is a idiot. Our pen is already bad enough…i dont understand all the people that think we cant afford him next year. Signing Ohman shoud be the first step and the easiest.
By Sage of Bluesland
August 31, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
The Braves are back to the 1980s (as in mid- to late) as an organization…Which was when the ‘rebirth’ which became the success of the 1990s was born.
Cox as GM (with Tanner as field-manager) were brought in and allowed to build it properly—from the ground up. They BUILT the organization from the minors up—and never got the credit they deserved.
Schuerholz—knowing a team on the rise—deserted the sinking ship in KC to latch on here to greater acclaim than he deserved (Has KC ever recovered?) and, like someone mentioned earlier, has left the cupboard completely bare…But, I’m sure the revisionists will blame Frank Wren…
Nope, it’s time to go about this thing the right way again: Build from the ground up. Invest properly. Be patient.
Will the current ownership do this? I doubt it…
By Kentavo
August 31, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
Hard to call this one - yes, they suck now, but who wouldn’t suck with 4/5 of the starting rotation under the knife? Now, it was bad planning to have two 40-somethings pencilled in for that rotation.
But, with a couple of professional hitters and veteran starters, this team could be a contender next year.
What they’ve got to build on: 1. Chipper 2. McCann 3. Jurrgens 4. Gonzalez 5. Prado (yes, Prado, he will be a factor) 6. Morton and JoJo taking their lumps now 7. Campillo (at very least could be a long reliever)
What must be addressed at a minium 1. Veteran, durable, innings-eating starting pitcher(s) 2. Outfielder(s) with power
Each year, the number of legitimate MLB hitters has decreased on the roster, and this year we started out with four (Chip, Tex, Kotsay, McCann) and are now down to
By Drummerdad
August 31, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
Agreed Mr. Bradley. And you’re the only who is really seeing and stating things as they are.
There was the sale from one corporate entity to another, and the two huge bad trades ( for J.D. Drew, and Texiera). What would fans rather see right now, Jason Marquis, or Elmer Dessens?
The farm system seems depleted and I don’t believe this organization will contend again until Liberty Media has gone away and the Braves have an owner who cares about the recent tradition of winning major league baseball in Atlanta. Another thing to keep in mind is that while this team is regrouping Jair Jurjens will be developing so that Scott Boras can lead him to another team at the worst moment for this outfit.
When Ted Turner sold to AOL/Time Warner he pointed a canon at his beloved ship’s deck and said fire.
It makes me sick.
By gotigers72
August 31, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
They have definitely hit bottom when they have to bring in a ragarm like Elmer Dessens to protect a 1 run, 8th inning lead. Which he couldn’t do obviously.
The Braves need to take a new tack, IMO. I know they got burned on Joey Devine by bringing him up too quickly. However, they need to start bringing guys up from double and triple A, rather than signing has beens such as Dessens, Jeff Bennett, Mark Redman, Jeff Ridgway, Brian Lawrence, and on and on and on. Can’t they see that that sort of option has not been working?
Do as they did in the late 80s with Glavine and others. Bring ‘em up, let ‘em take their lumps for awhile, and just give away a couple of years to rebuild. No more giving up 5 prospects for a player you can keep for ONE year. They were burned by JD Drew and Teixeira. Oh my, wouldn’t Wainwright and Matt Harrison [6-3] look good in the current rotation? After all, they could have finished out of the playoffs without Teixeira. I know Drew helped them get in, but was it worth it for making it to the playoffs for the one year he was here? NO!!!!!
By Bob Sacamano
August 31, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this
Mark, why don’t you tell the truth about what really needs to happen with the Braves?
Booby Cox needs to GO!!!
He is the absolute wrong manager to manage this kind of team. They should be fighting a scraping and doing everything they can to MANUFACTURE RUNS… but he has them all waiting for the three-run homer.
Shoot… in any other city with a responsible media and fans that actually cared, Cox would have been fired after 1996 and his disasterous decisions that cost the team yet another World Series victory.
Booby Cox… the most OVERRATED manager in baseball history!!!
By RA
August 31, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
Well, as usual after reading one of your articles Mark Bradley, I just want to go right out and shoot myself. Listen, the Braves still have one of the best minor league systems in the game and if the Yankees have taught us anything, it’s that if you’re willing to spend enough money, you can contend, year after year… I think the braves have the management, the will, and the money to get healthy faster than “years.” Until then though, I’ll wait for you to be journalist enough to write something less than terrible about the Hawks!
By Mark Bradley
August 31, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
I thought the Braves would win the NL East, yes. But I always figured it would be, as I’ve said several times, a last stand.
And now, with three pitchers out of contract and no lock ever to throw another pitch for this time and Hudson having had Tommy John surgery — and with Teixeira gone and with who knows what’s going on with Francoeur — I really don’t see much of a team.
And let’s say they do, as was suggested above, buy a big-name pitcher and a proven bat … that’s only one pitcher every five days and only one bat in a fairly unimposing lineup.
By COGPK
August 31, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
It won’t take years if we’ll sign Sabathia and Sheets with this freed up money. We have some good young players coming up. It can turn around next year. Where were the Rays last year?
By TOMY FOURNIER
August 31, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
I said this from the beginning…Atlanta is not going to no-where….I said..Mr.”MORON” Cox have to be out…and all this old “GUY”(SMALL,GLAVINE.HAMSTON,CHIPPER) AND ALL MORON COAHS STAFF…BUT NO BODY SAID NOTHING AND NOW…EVERY BODY IS A GENIUS SAYING THE SAME…BUY NOW IS TO “LATE…TOO LATE!!!!ATLANTA IS SH……!!!!GO WHAT????
By Older Braves Fan
August 31, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this
You all have hit the nail on the head, CORPORATE OWENERSHIP. Putting a subpar major league team on the field is a business decision and they do not really care. It is “write off” for them. Why don’t the BRAVES FANS BOYCOTT the junk (product) until CORPORATE OWNERSHIP decides to put a team on the field worth buying a ticket for? Possibly this could send a message that we are mad about it and are not going to take it any longer. Maybe even a major reduction in ticket prices!
By Dick in L'vlle
August 31, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
I agree with Mr. Bradley that the Braves are done and a long way from competing for a championship again. Maybe in 2014 or later.
Many mistakes have been made regarding some trades and signings, however, at the moment they looked good. The minor leagues may have some future players down there, but we will reap the benefit of their talents for several years down the road.
I think the Braves fans should look at what has happened in Pittsburgh, KC, Cincinnati and Baltimore and be prepared for a similar wait.
All of the money in the US can not bring the Braves back to championship form, just look at this years Yankees. The Braves of you blogger’s youth is done and you will have to live with it KIDS!!
By Kenneth
August 31, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
Good article Mark. I cannot see the braves improving for several years. They have no cornerstone except MaCann and that is about it. That is pitiful. Another thing is that apparently they do not have a trainer. Look at all the pitchers who are having surgery. Has there ever been a team with as many pitchers out with surgery? The farm system is non existant. They gave away the farm to rent JD Drew and Tex and for what? Tex is gone after part of 2 seasons and look what we got for him. We gave away several good players and got one that is not even a fair player. Bobby Cox needs to retire, fire Pendleton and get some new blood in the dugout. As for the players they cannot trade any players because they don’t have anybody to trade. Would it be possible to sign enough free agents to play 7 positions and 2-3 good pitchers throwed in too? They have a good catcher and that is it. They need to sign 7 position players and 2-3 good pitchers. This may take 200 million dollars to accomplish this and I know it won’t happen but what else can they do? With no talent at the major league level and no farm system they cannot do anything. I blame this situation on poor trades, poor scouting of young players, and upper management for allowing all this to happen. Other teams do not give up the farm to rent players and they are much more successful than the braves. Look at the Mets. They got Johan Santana and signed him. They did not rent him for one season. It may take 10 years to build the farm back if they don’t give it all away again like they have done in the past 5 years or so. It is a shame that Washington is in last place. The braves need to be there and maybe, just maybe, the upper management will see the light.
By JimK
August 31, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
The foundation is in A and AA. Be patient, and build with kids like the Rays did.
By Kenneth
August 31, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
Who do the braves have in A or AA that would be major leaguers in the next 2-3 years? If they are any good the braves will find some way to give them away.If they have any talent in the organization they need to bring them up now. They couldn’t be any worse than what they put on the field every day.
By Clint
August 31, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
Mark, you’re right on the money. Wren can no doubt put a solid team on the field next year, but there is a huge difference between a solid lineup and a championship team.
I remember back a few years when the Braves were still winning, one of the analysts on ESPN made a point that the Braves had championship caliber players at each key position except left field. Gerald Williams was our left fielder at the time, and the analyst said that to win championships you need to have studs at key positions like left field. Gerald was a solid player, but he said you need more than “solid” players to win championships (the Sox had Manny last year, for example).
The Braves can put “solid” players on the field next year. Kotchman, Francouer, Prado, Escobar, Infante, and maybe Jordan Schaeffer all fit that description. They can also plug gaps with marginal players like Blanco and Kelly Johnson. But McCann and Chipper are the only two “championship caliber” players we have, and our minor leagues above Class A Rome are EMPTY. Go sign a stud center fielder, if you can find one, but this is rock bottom.
Also, the fire Cox and Pendleton idiots should just go away for a while. Vince Lombardi couldn’t win with a bad Redskins team, either. Just because Bobby & Terry can’t polish this turd doesn’t mean they’re at fault for the current situation. Thank Mr. Schuerholz for what we have now.
By Ward
August 31, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
Reluctantly I have reached the “Rubican” never anticipated…Bobby must retire.Fresh leadership, hit&run,stolen bases,are needed. Chemistry has disapated seriously and the woes are evident. Those 1 run games on the road and the first inning disasters are disgusting to bear.
By Kenneth
August 31, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
I think the reason the Rays are finally in first place is they kept their young players and did not give them away for one year rentals like the braves did. I don’t know much about the Rays because I don’t like the American league but I don’t remember a trade where they gave away the farm for a rental. I agree the braves could learn from the Rays but with a depleted farm system it will take years to accomplish this.
By Chief Nokahoma
August 31, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
Mr. Bradley While I agree that this team isn’t going to significantly improve for some time, I feel it’s up to you and the other writers from the AJC to begin to address the biggest problem withthe Braves instead of pussyfooting around it.
BOBBY COX HAS TO GO!!!! His management of the bullpen is the single biggest detriment to this team and it’s not just this year. The lack of talent has only exposed him for the fraud he is. 28 straight losses in 1-run road games is a direct result of managerial mismanagement of the bullpen.
The sooner you and the other writers (and other local media) begin to start aking the hard questions, begin to start focusing on how poorly this team is managed, start writing about it, only then will things begin to change for the better. Bobby is not the man to begin leading this team back from the dismal swamp of mediocrity they are now enmeshed in.
So how about it, how about addressing the “biggest single detriment” to future improvement.
By joebrave
August 31, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley,You’re about as useless as a monkey with toilet paper.You sir are the epitome of what is wrong with this RAG Sheet called a newspaper.What A godamn wothless scunbag marthaphaker you are.. Pitiful B@stard!!! Go yank off You’re girlfriend Terrence Moron!!! Do Anythiing you piece of $hit but Leave the Braves the He11Alone!!!!
By RA
August 31, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Dear Older Braves Fan. I too, am an older Braves fan, as was my father, and my grandfather, when he rooted for the Boston Braves. Now, what I can tell you is that in all my long years of following this team,I’ve never seen a team disected by injuries and general misfortune as this one! Here’s the thing, we could have started off this season with two hall of fame pitchers and four former all-stars. The only one left is Hampton. What the deuce were the chances on that?! Two years ago, Jeff Franceour, or however his name is spelled hit 29 home runs and I think he had around 100 RBI’s. He had a year long slump, not unlike the one that Ron Gant endured in 2004, or was it 2003. The years start to run together after a while… Anyway, Mark Kotsay was brought in as a stop gap for Schafer, and he comes in knocking the cover off the ball, not even a month later, Schafer’s suspended and Kotsay’s on the DL. Who knew? We started off the year with two closers that could throw lights out, with a third on his way back, a month later they were all hurt at the same time. Chipper Jones starts the year looking like Ted Williams, pulls up lame, again! Folks, the Greeks could not have written a season as tragic as this one! My point is that you can’t use this season to predict what could happen next year or the year after that or “years” down the line. In this twisted free agent universe, NOTHING is certain. Bradley, you of all people should know that.
By Scooter
August 31, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this
If Wren resigns Glavine he needs to be horse whipped and run out of town. This t eam is in shambles because of Shurholtz,s trades for J.D. Drew and Tex. We gave up alot of our talent and have nothing to show for it. This insane type of trading has got to stop. You,ve got to sign them to a long term contract when you make a trade of this magnitude. Stop giving away our talent. What,s happened to Bobby Cox? He seems to be managing to loose. Why on earth do you bring in a Mexican league castoff to pitch the eigth inning just after you,ve taken the lead. I think this has been his worse managing year to date. I think he should be replaced and put in the front office. This club doesn,t have the resources and intelligence to turn it around. Our glory days are gone and will take alot to bring back.
By RA
August 31, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
joebrave I know how you feel about Bradley. Heck, a lot of us do, but once somebody gets a good look at what you wrote, they’re going to pull this blog, and I don’t blame them. One of the great things about this “rag of a newspaper” is that we can disagree with each other and the writers, but one of the things that makes us responsible contributors is that we voice those opinions in a responsible way. Really, joebrave, you’re better than that.
By Clyde
August 31, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
No, RA, joebrave is not better than that. He’s a complete idiot who can’t write, can’t spell, doesn’t know the difference between you’re & your, and rarely has anything of substance to offer. I wish they’d log IP addresses and get rid of losers like him permanently.
By Philliesuk
August 31, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
The Braves dynasty started to die once the team changed owners to Time Warner. As someone above said, until a local guy (a la Mark Cuban) takes over, we will not rise again. Sure, there will be seasons where we overachieve, like the Twins and A’s sometimes do, but all in all, there will be more disappointment than winning.
Free agency does not solve everything, but it sure does make a hell of a difference. Look at the moves the Cubs made last year. I said it before, and I’ll say it again: We need to get a #1 starter in the off-season. I don’t care if we have to outbid the Yankees in order to do it. We have a lot of money coming off the books, and it’s time to spend it. If not, it will just be another year on the road to mediocrity.
By the way, I’m not being negative about this team. My love for this team is why I’m so frustrated with this current ownership.
By bill
August 31, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
The people that are faulting corporate ownership are spot on.These clowns are worse than Time-Warner and they were bad.
The first thig T-W did after buying the team from Ted was cut scouting and devlopment.What a stupid move.
I will always belive the decline of the Braves began the day of the Justice-Lofton trade.
I have a message to the current group of owners.I will not set foot in Turner Field while you own the team.That will take a couple of thosand dollars off your bottom line.
When the Braves get home have one of your minios turn on the television and find out how many empty seats there are in the stadium.
I don’t know how to fix the Braves but I know where to start.Find ownership that cares.
By bravlady
August 31, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
There’s a black cloud hanging over the Braves right now and it’s not Gustov or Hanna. It’s management or the lack thereof. Time to clean out and get new blood. I miss seeing the Braves on TV. I refuse to pay MLB and Comcast to watch a game I should be watching on TBS. I’ve been a fan for 30+ years and will be for the next 20 but it’s getting painful to watch them lose the way they have this season. It was clear the Braves threw in the towel when they traded Mark T. That was painful enough to watch. Losing to lowly Washington is too much to take. It’s ugly and it’s going to be a long time before they recover. There hasn’t been an exiting season since the Baby Braves year. They bring up young players and then trade them away. Can’t figure that one out either. This whole season’s got me scratching my head. I’ll probably be bald by the end of September.
By Nelson
August 31, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
I’m not following the Braves for a long time, and probably will not renew my subscription to MLB Extra Innings next year unless they remove mediocre player like KJ, Francouer, the new first baseman, some pitchers and bring young and explosive players and also Bobby resigns. Ask the Marlins how they do it?
By Built to last (oops)
August 31, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
The Rays are finally succeeding because they have had a top five draft position in 8 of the last 10 years.
In two of the last 10 drafts, the Braves didn’t have a first round pick. We had a pick below 20 1 out of the 10 drafts.
By Mark Bradley
August 31, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
The Rays, since you asked, had been building (and losing) for a decade. They didn’t get good all of a sudden because they bought a few big-name free agents. They added Troy Percival and Cliff Floyd — the latter for the bargain price of $3 million — to what they’d been compiling. Sort of like what the Braves did with Terry Pendleton and Sid Bream and Otis Nixon and Rafael Belliard back in 1991.
Here’s the thing, though: An organization has to be sitting on a considerable amount of young talent for such veteran free agents to make a difference, and I don’t believe the Braves are.
By jammer
August 31, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this
Agree 100%. It is time to start all over. Ask Cox to retire. Dont even consider bringing back Smoltz or Glavine. Build from within and with free agency. The glory of the 90s is over.
By David
August 31, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
There. Somebody finally said it. Thanks, Mark. The Braves are now light years away from even being competitive.
By This Gets Old
August 31, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Jammer? Are you the jammer that used to be on the old Falcons bb on AOL?
By beki
August 31, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
The truth is there are too many older players,retreads, old retreads, and rentals among the few ” golden boys.”i.e. McCann and CJ. I’ll continue watching the Bravos until time freezes over.
By HB
August 31, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
Right now the Braves are the worst team in baseball!!!
By JT
August 31, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
Actually I like what’s happening to the Braves. I lived in Atlanta for eight years and I had to listen to all the babbling about the Braves. But I could always get them quiet when I asked…How many world series did you win versus the Marlins
By Kelley
August 31, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
To the Bobby Bashers, consider these points:
In Mark Bradley’s last post, he just compared what the Rays have done in building their organization to what the Braves did in 91. Do any of you stop to think who was the GM who started building our farm system to allow the Braves to become what they were in the 90’s? Yep, Bobby Cox.
Who was the GM in charge of signing Chipper Jones and John Smoltz (just to name a few)? Bobby Cox
Recent issue of Baseball America polls managers and coaches on the best in certain categories (hitting, best arm, etc.) Who was voted on by the managers and coaches as the best manager in the NL? (come on, take a guess) Bobby Cox Even in this terrible season, other managers still recognize how great he is.
SO…According to individuals like Joe Torre, Tony LaRusaa, and Jim Leyland, Bobby Cox is the best in the business and they have the good sense to realize that no manager could win with the line up and injuiries he has this year.
So, I think I’ll continue to recognize Bobby as one of the greatest managers of all time and be realistic enough to realize that this season is just the hand he has been dealt.
After seeing the results of the poll of major league managers, I feel like I’m in pretty good company on my opinion of Bobby.
And to Mark Bradley, what a scary thought that Jair will be our opening day pitcher next year. I like the kid and all and think he’s a great young pitcher, but not too optimistic if we’re counting on him to be our “ace”. I hope Wren can pull several rabbits out of his hat this off season.
By Braves blow now for sure
August 31, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
The Brave’s are a after thought ,just like chipper winning the batting title ..last check he’s 6 points behind and falling
By t. rigel
August 31, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
this problem did not start this year,
or last year.
or in 2006.
it started years ago with a top management - the saturnine schuerholtz- who played, i.e., traded, to win in the short run season after season after season.
completely new management is badly needed. the farm system and young players need to be attended to beginning NOW.
why would any really top notch free-agent even want to come to a team as bad as the braves are looking now?
they wouldn’t.
how many top-notch free agents would it take?
too many.
get the farm system going, get the young players coming up, and get the fans coming out to watch and become excited fans of those young players.
as a business, the braves lost both their gate magic AND their game magic when they started treating their players like poker chips on a table.
By Ralph
August 31, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this
The Braves, say one thing and mean another, how they will trade anyone, to improve the team, and instead get a waste-up pitcher or a part time player, that can’t hit their weight. This guy Wren doesn’t know half of what he is talking about. John Schuerholz’s decision, to pick him, was the worse decision, he has ever made. The owner of the Braves, said Bobby was his man, and the organization has no intention, in replacing him. Will they make improvings to the Braves next year, such, if little green men come to earth. They keep throwing out the baby with the water. They are in complete disarray. Who ever gets traded from the Braves, will be more than glad to get out of a team that have clowns, printed on their forehead. The players play according to the managers leadership, and the spirit of winning, and Bobby just doesn’t have it neither one. The organization, said they are willing to get rid of all their players, and get the best in the world, but as long as they keep the same manager, they will be in last losers. So, with the mentally this organization has, it will for year fight to stay out of last play. And will again be laughing stock, of professional baseball, as they were in the pass. If Bobby Cox care about the Braves, he would step down, and give the Brave an opportunity, for the future. Pendleton, would be the same or even worse.
By You got to be kidding me
August 31, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
I’m sick of all you a-holes calling us fair-weather fans! Since 1987 (when I got my license to drive) my friends and I spent almost every summer evening at Atl/Ful co. stadium watching the pitiful Braves play! Then came 1991 and Oh what a year! I even got a ticket to the first World Series game ever held in Atlanta and sat next to Whitey Ford and Joe Torre (and gave them directions to Aunt Fanny’s cabin for those who remember that restaurant) But after that season Braves tix prices kept increasing to where we could no longer afford to keep going that much… we would still go but it took planning and a check of our finances… yes, they did make a family zone but I like to enjoy a beer with my dog and not have to sit in the upper deck! Now, with the economy the way it is… I expect more bang for my buck and the Braves are not delivering that! They go out and play like they cannot wait to get home to their mansions and golf course in Sugarloaf (which we finance) So unless you are a season ticket holder, you too are a “fair-weather fan” If you are a season ticket holder then you should be more p** than I am about the state of the organization! So shut up!
By Canton(NOT O H I O)BravesFan
August 31, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
Because the Braves Organization has kissed Glavine and Smoltz’ a* for too long. They were good in their day. Hell, we all get old. I love Bobby Cox…I want the MAN to sign my baseball! But, if they get rid of Escobar, Prado and Infante………I will forever hate the Braves. PLEASE trade Francoeur and Johnson. I know Frenchy is a HOMEBOY lol but he is not doing us any good. This has got to be as bad as in the 80s. Hell, I didn’t even care in the 80s. When I tuned into the SUPERSTATION, I wanted to see movies. LMAO I miss Ted. to all the ugly GOPers, have a great week lol
By gmk
August 31, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
t. rigel is right. Back in the day, the braves would groom from the farm system and go get a free agent for the playoff run (e.g., fred mcgriff). That farm system has been left depleted by short-term trades. Coupled with cost-reductions, the Braves are several YEARS away from being able to compete with the big-spending teams. It’s a very sad thing for me to see, but on the positive side, we’ll be able to see a few good games in Gwinnett next year!
By Flustered Fan
August 31, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
I agree about changing ownership. The Braves do NOT need to be owned by someone like Liberty Media. I’m still in shock that MLB actually approved that sale! LM does not care about the Braves. They will not spend any money to get the Braves back up to respectability. Bring in Arthur Blank to buy the team. Ok, now about all of those people who call people like me “fairweather fans.” I don’t watch the Braves a lot nowadays because it’s painful to watch a team who doesn’t care about looking like a bunch of girls playing slow pitch softball. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Braves and all, but I am not going to subject myself to pain and misery when they are on tv. I hope the attendance keeps declining at Turner Field. It kind of makes me feel better seeing all of those empty blue seats. Maybe that will send a message to this team that WE, their fans, are fed up with this losing and passionless playing. Also, I hope that the esteemed owners, Hitler Media, er, I mean Liberty Media gets the hint and puts the team on the block so a local owner or owners can come in and restore America’s Team.
By jacktheman
August 31, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
The problem I’ve got is the Braves did throw in the towel when they let Tex go because they didn’t go after pitching help which was the major problem. Everybody hates the Yankees but they try to win at all costs. I want the Braves to think like that. Ted Turner should buy this team back. Bobby is tired. I love the guy,but it is time to go.
By randyh
August 31, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
forget about bringing in sluggers and the three run bomb. do as schuerholz did in the beginning, bring in some infielders who can play solid defense,(bream, pendleton,belliard) and if they hit then its a plus. do what ever it takes to get at least 3 studs on the pitching staff, and let defense and pitching win for you once again. we all cried for more offense back in the day, but now we know for sure the name of the game is defense and pitching. noone on this team should be untouchable…..no…one..
By Mark Bradley
August 31, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
We’ll get to see how serious Liberty Media is about baseball this offseason. But I’m not sure even the Yankees could spend enough money in one winter to make the Braves a winner in 2009.
By jch
August 31, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
GREAT article.
Right on the button.
Make a list of the position players, 1-5 starting pitchers and a closer (forget relievers for now) and, based on the team as it stands today, put the name of who you think will start there on opening day ‘09. Now, put their offensive stats next to each.
Looks pretty sad doesn’t it?
I don’t think the traditional power positions of Diaz, Blanco,Franceour and Kochman will put fear in the eyes of any pitchers.
Our only true power potential is from McCann and Chipper.
McCann, as a catcher, can’t be relied on or expected to put up the numbers he has this year - although for the Braves ‘09 sake we hope he does.
Nor can we truly expect Chipper to continue to hit up to his career levels or play much more than 120 games or so.
So, this leaves us with a pretty rag-tag group. Defensively we’ll be pretty solid. Offensively; we’ll need to figure out how to manufacture runs which, in my opnion, the Bobby Cox of recent years hasn’t been very adept at doing.
As for starting pitching… Jurrjens is our ace; enough said.
Gonzo’s pretty good though!
By gayle
August 31, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
props to Bob Sacamano and Kenneth
It’s gratifying to see a local writer lay this team bare. Disgust with this team has been compounded by the local hacks mouthing the JS, BC and FW talking points.
It’s just a shame that this introspection wasn’t said years ago.
Sub .500 baseball for the last three years, no postseason series wins since 2001 and no World Series games victories since game 3 of the 1996 series (0-7).
How easily satisfied the team, the manager and the fans have been to accept this level of mediocraty.
In so many ways we have all become enablers constantly referring to the useless string of meaningless division titles, the Hall of Fame manager and the GM braintrust.
The hired guns coming in for the “cup of coffee”, Drew, Sheffield and Tex - they’re all gone along with the players and prospects given away for that quick shot of playoff caffeine.
The “senior circuit” rotation brought in for one last shot was a sad act of despiration. Even worse is any conversation of ANY of them coming back next year.
Well Braves fans, we’re all out of last shots. The cupboard has been stripped bare and now all those enablers will pay the price with a few years of 1980’s Braves baseball and I don’t mean 1982.
By braves=losers
August 31, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
I have to agree with Mark. Anyone catch the “game” today? Washington will give their all to put the Braves in the cellar. Isn’t taking much effort either. Hard decisions have to be made and carried through. No more Glavine & Smoltz. Time to cut Bobby and Terry loose. And while we’re at it, where in the world did this idiot announcer “Boog” come from? There is no team since we lost Texeria. We need players that want to play & win. Not these lack luster millionaires that don’t give a crap as long as they are paid. We need to rebuild, and pay the bucks it will take to do so. Wise up Wren! This is going to take a hell of a lot more than little pieces.
By WILIAM
August 31, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
WHO OR WHAT DID STOCKMAN UPSET, HE SHOUYLD HAVE BEEN IN ATLANTA ALL YEAR. I GET YHE FEELING PLAYER LIKE SALTY,EMBREE,MARQUIS, ETC. MUST HAVE TOLD BOBBY OFF, WHY ELSE DID THEY LEAVE IN A HURRY.
By Mr. Obvious
August 31, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
At least the BRAVES are not yet getting raped JAILHOUSE-STYLE every night like MIKE VICK is.
By Dozer
August 31, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Bradley - about time someone in the Atlanta media told the emperor he had no clothes. This organization has mis-managed & scrimped their way into this situation for the last 5 years. Their incompetence is only matched by their arrogance. They built this year’s team on a bunch or injury-prone and aging players, and you all drank the koolaid from day 1. Can someone PLEASE tell me why the Braves are so bulletproof in this town?? One championship in 14 tries? Maybe that’s the way they should have been looking at it all along, instead of heaping endless praise on themselves for making it far enough to be disappointing year after year.
By Canton(NOT O H I O)BravesFan
August 31, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
I only PRAY that Frank Wren reads this blog!!!!! I know Bobby has said in the past he doesn’t read the “local” paper. Maybe you should, Bobby. You would find out how mad us Braves fans are!!!!!!
By Josh
August 31, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
Dunn and Burrell are definitely worth $15MM/year, for a few more seasons at least. They are liabilities on defense but both make up for it with superb On base & Slugging percentages. I’d like to see Dunn brought in; as he ages he could possibly move to 1st.
A contingency plan needs to be brought in for RF. Or if the right player presents himself replace Francouer before 2009 begins. The Braves can’t suffer another season with a sub .800 OPS from RF
I think competing next year is possible but I don’t envy the task of making it happen. It’s a long road ahead.
By Braves-fan-in-Columbus
August 31, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
Having been a Braves fan for a long time, I hate to see how so many have just abandoned ship. Go back and look. Just a little over a month ago the Braves were only 6 games back. They were fighting until some bad news hit them again.
The number one issue with the Braves is the general manager. Players who could be contributing today were traded away in hopes of winning at the moment. And now there is nothing to show other than maybe a couple of players. Draft and build through the farm. Get some frontline starters for the rotation and hope that LIberty Media sells the team to someone who wants to build a winner in Atlanta.
By Kenneth
August 31, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
I agree with the person who said the downfall of the braves begin when they traded or should I say gave away Dave Justice and Grissom to rent Kenny Lofton for on year. That deal was rigged. Cleveland had already worked out with Lofton to agree with the trade and seem happy about it and they could get Justice and the very next year he could come back to Cleveland and that is exactly what happened. Cleveland had alreay stuck the braves with Lyn Barker and that should have thrown up a red flag. The trades since have all been downhill with the braves getting the worse end of all deals.
By Ron Roberts
August 31, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
This is the same Mark Bradley who predicted the team’s playoff run before the season, and even in the throes of the early summer swoon.
Now the franchise is in shambles.
By Philliesuk
August 31, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
Mark, I agree with you that free agents won’t save this team. However, I think that until the ownership adopts the mindset that signing big-name free agents is essential to building a winner, we will flirt with mediocrity.
I do acknowledge that free agents are not the only answer. In order for the Braves to build a winner, they need to understand that some current players (Kelly Johnson, Matt Diaz) are not going to take us to the top.
By jeff
August 31, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
I love the Excuses and the cover up by our wonderful GM… Please this team is in shambles,and the organization is going down the tubes.. With Frank Wren at the Helm the Atlanta Braves will be at the bottom.. He is an awful GM and needs to be fired.. the ownership needs to start caring about this ball team,and step 1 is firing frank Wren and asking bobby cox to retire. The Organization Needs New Faces and a new direction..
By Philip Covin
August 31, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Let’s look at the positive side. Two of our current starters have stepped forward out of nowhere to become great starting pitchers - Jair Jurrjens and Jorge Campillo. Both of these guys are fantastic. Jair is still learning how to pitch in the bigs, but in his 2nd season he is really proving himself. Campillo started off the season as a reliever, but has stepped up to become a quality starter. Now if we get Smoltz and Hampton back next season, there’s 4 quality starters. I’m not sure that Glavine will be re-signed, but it depends on how much money he’s willing to play for. I’d love to have him back, but I think it will have to be for less than the $8 mil he gets this year, and I hope he loves the game enough that he’ll take less. Anyway, I think between he, Reyes, James, and Morton, we’ll have our 5th starter. What we need in the pitching dept is a set-up man for Soriano and/or Gonzalez. Ohman has shown promise and so has Carlyle, but we may need to sign another reliever. Now for the hitting, I’d love to get Willie Harris back. How long is his contract with DC? Man, he killed us this weekend. Hopefully, Diaz will be back in the line-up, and Frenchy will take a long vacation over the winter and stop trying so hard. Maybe get his eyes checked too - seriously. I do think we need to sign another proven outfielder. Maybe Anderson will be the one next year, but we’ll see how he does in September. I’m hopeful about Prado at first (he’s hitting .349 right now if you didn’t know) but it’s too early to tell. Let’s see how he does in September too. And then there’s Kelly Johnson. I like the guy, but he’s hitting .263. If he can finish above .275, then he’s worth keeping. Escobar is not having as good of a season as last year, but I definitely want him back. I don’t need to say anything about McCann (let’s make him another career Brave), but we need another back-up catcher. Sammons and Corky need to hit better than .157 and .093 respectively.
If we do all this, I think we will have a great team next year. And no, dangit, Bobby doesn’t need to go.
By Dave in Arizona
August 31, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
The first nail in the Braves’ coffin was Leyritz’ home run off Wohlers. They were never the same scrappy bunch after that.
The worst trade was JS moving Boone and Klesko for Quilvio Veras, Joyner, and Sanders after our last WS appearance. The “Curse of Quilvio” took that WS edge away. The bad trades have kept on coming since then. Whoever said JS was to blame for a lot of this was right.
These people hollering “fair weather” are enablers. Some of us have been unhappy for a long time, and said so on various boards. We were met with nasty insults and charges of not being the right kind of fan, which is to them, homers, enablers, and polyannas. The Braves already have enough of those type of fans. People pay big bucks to see this slop. I have the MLB package. That means I’ll complain about the shape of the team and not put my hand in the sand.
The Braves used to play like dogs in post-season, winning all those worthless division titles in a watered down league. Everybody outside Atlanta thinks that’s a Buffalo Bills type joke and means nothing. They will be remembered as losers and chokers. There was nothing lovable about the way the team lost all those years.
As for what to do, get some players who hustle and keep them. We need guys with work ethics and attitude, players like Mark Lemke. Get some Eckstine’s and Counsell’s for us. Guys who can hit and run, bunt, steal…the basics. Get some coaches who can teach and strategize.
But Cox, McDowell, and Pendleton need to go. They didn’t build this pile of garbage, but they can’t navigate it, either. Cox’s decision making has always been brutal. This is a shameful team right now, as bad as any I remember in 40 years of being a fan.
By WhereisHarryCarry'sHONESTY?
August 31, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
we suck— why don’t the announcers call it like it is… WE SUCK!!!!!!!!!1
By Brian
August 31, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
Bradley- You give off negative