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Home > Mark Bradley > Archives > 2008 > May > 05 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USWho are the true Atlanta Hawks?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Thirteen hours after the Hawks made their latest and last return from Boston, they gathered at Philips Arena to clean out lockers and to make sense of what they’d just done. And, more to the point, what they might do.
“We can do something special,” said Josh Smith, who will have to be re-signed for this buzz to linger. “We’ve always been a team at the bottom of the totem pole, but now we’ve been in the playoffs and been successful.”
Here, however, is where it gets tricky. As this suddenly buoyant franchise sails on, does ownership judge the Hawks on what happened over a six-month regular season that ended with the team 37-45, or does it take the stirring events of 15 spring days as the new reality?
“I have not spoken to my [Atlanta Spirit] partners,” said Michael Gearon Jr., speaking by phone Monday, “but we will take a step back for several days and let the emotion settle. And I would not take that statement and conclude that one or the other [meaning general manager Billy Knight or coach Mike Woodson] is gone or will be fired. That is not a foregone conclusion.”
That caveat aside, the guess is that the Spirit will shed Knight and keep Woodson. That belief took root in March, after Knight’s latest attempt to sack Woodson was rebuffed (and made public). If ownership differs with its GM on such an essential matter, what’s the point of keeping him? And, even though Knight has finally constructed a roster of playoff caliber, in-house consensus seems to hold that he took too long to do it.
Woodson is a trickier case. His record (106-222) is a horror, but there’s appreciation for his work within the Spirit. He was given a wretched roster in 2004 and then was handed Marvin and Shelden Williams (as opposed to Chris Paul and Brandon Roy). Through all the losing, he managed not to lose his players. The proof came in the series just completed.
“Woody had his team ready to play,” said Celtics coach Doc Rivers, the erstwhile Hawk. “Even in Games 1 and 2, you could tell they believed they could win.”
The sentimentalist in me would say Woodson deserves to stay for riding out four difficult seasons and keeping his team on the upward trail. Contrary to popular belief, there’s nothing wrong with his X’s and O’s — nobody who played for Bobby Knight and who worked for Larry Brown can be accused of not knowing the game — and his half-court offense is essentially the same as everyone else’s: pick-and-rolls and pin-downs, curls and isolations.
“If the players want me, I’ll be the coach,” Woodson said Monday. “If the owners want me, I’ll be the coach.”
How far away, he was asked, are the Hawks from being a bona fide contender?
“Not far away,” he said. “We’re 13 games from 50 wins. Would 50 wins have gotten a [first-round] homecourt advantage?”
Yes. Forty-six wins would have. And that, as cold-hearted as it might sound, is why the belief here remains as it was 2 1/2 months ago: That Woodson’s Hawks, for all their skill, leave too many winnable games on the table. (Five more regular-season victories and they’d have played Orlando in Round 1.) He had them primed for the playoffs, but what about for January?
“A lot of games slipped away,” Smith said. “We should have been way better.”
There are men available — Avery Johnson, Jeff Van Gundy, perhaps Mike D’Antoni — who could take Woodson’s foundation and dress it up, who would arrive without the baggage of four consecutive losing seasons. The guess, though, is that Gearon and his partners will see it differently.
And if the Hawks perform under Woodson next season as they did in Games 3, 4 and 6, that will be seen as a shrewd decision. But what if, eight months hence, the Hawks are again treading water and we’re hearing the old lament, “We weren’t ready to play”? Will we regard one giddy series as a new beginning … or a false spring?
Permalink | Comments (42) | Post your comment | Categories: Hawks/NBA
Comments
By Herschel Talker
May 5, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
Can Billy Knight Can Mike Woodson Can the Atlanta Spirit Can Mark Bradley When’s kickoff?
By ugapip
May 5, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
Anyone know where we are on David Anderson, the center we drafted from Austrialia that has never suited up for the Hawks. He is now playing in Europe. I heard he may be coming to the Hawks next year. This would be a great addition.
By falconfan42
May 5, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this
I have live here since 1974. All Atlanta teams are my teams. If they keep Woody or Knight,I will Never watch this team again. PERIOD….. That is sad… So many wrong decisions. Go FALCONS. THE SPIRIT SUUUUUUUU>>>CCCCKKKKSSS!!!!!!
By falconfan42
May 5, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
I have live here since 1974. All Atlanta teams are my teams. If they keep Woody or Knight,I will Never watch this team again. PERIOD….. That is sad… So many wrong decisions. Go FALCONS. THE SPIRIT SUUUUUUUU>>>CCCCKKKKSSS!!!!!!
By JB
May 5, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Woody deserves another chance. Give him a 2 year contract and if the team does what we believe they’re capable of doing next year then give him an extension. After all, who are you going to bring in? Avery Johnson? As much as I liked him as a player and a coach, remember he just got canned because he couldn’t achieve with a roster that cost about 2 times as much as the Hawks. And keep in mind his teams got bounced in the 1st round the past 2 years after taking Don Nelson’s constructed teams to the finals. Or maybe you’re think about D’Antonio. They got him arguably the most dynamic center in NBA history in Shaq to go along with a future Hall of Fame point guard in Steve Nash along with all the pieces he already had and he got bounced in the first round. Woody has been working with scraps and making them into a team. If you get a bonafide center and move Horford to 4 and Smith to 3 and bring Marvin Williams off the bench you will have a squad that has size and depth. Adding another veteran piece here and there will give Woodson a roster that could make a difference.
By JSS
May 5, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
Andrew Bynum, Ronny Turiaf, and Gasol makes Chris Mihm’s expendable in L.A., he’s like the center in Utah (Mehmet Okur) , he just needs minutes and needs to stay healthy… I like Chills but he’s a driver, somebody besides our 6’1” guards and our misguided 4 and Marvin “Space Ghost” Williams has to be able to hit a jumper… JSmoove is 2 to 3 seasons from being a consistent jump shooter… Rahseed Wallace and Bob McAdoo don’t come along everyday, so you have to wait for the day he gets it, just make sure its in Atlanta. Salim will never be more than a streak shooter who either carry you or bury you… Folks, Chills need to stay on the bench, instant energy and he makes the other team have to keep playing long minutes with some of their regulars… Marvin disappears too much to be first off the bench…
By Harry Hawk
May 5, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this
How in the blue hell can you fire the GM and not fire the coach? A new GM will just want to hire his own coach. The Hawks would be better off firing both than keeping Woodson.
Mark, plenty of head coaches have worked for legends. That doesn’t mean that those head coaches are any good. Look at Isiah Thomas, for God’s sake. He also played for Bobby Knight. He was an all-time great NBA point guard. He can’t coach or general manage worth a damn. A coach has to have the ability to succeed on his own merits. Woodson has none. If Knight goes, Woodson must do the same.
By Augman
May 5, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
Trade Smoove and Speedy for J Oneal?
Bibby Joe Marvin Al Horford Jermaine Oneal
By KWill42
May 5, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
Smoove is not a 3. He’s not a jumpshooter. He can’t handle. He’s a power forward. Hawks have got a real decision here that will shape the franchise.
By The Grinch
May 5, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
Harry Hawk, good points. And even if the guy does know his x’s and o’s, it’s his complete lack of killer instict that really makes me mad. I have NEVER heard him interviewed where he didn’t imply that being mediocre was just fine. I’m sure he’s a nice guy and for that reason alone I’d rather see him stay than Billy (Who are you to question me for doing a bad job?) Knight…but really, they both ought to go. And we need a center.
By The Grinch
May 5, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
And if we include Speedy in on a deal it must be known we will have to get less back. I love people that think anyone would take that thief off our hands.
By ugaman
May 5, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this
Augman, you have officially lost your pea brain mind!!!! Trade an up and coming allstar for a past his prime, consistenly injured nonathletic O’neal. Now that makes a great deal of sense (lots of sarcasm intended there!!) If we trade Smoove (which I think would be crazy, even though I have been one of his biggest critics), then we better get a young up and coming big with a legitimate draft choice of backup shooting guard in return. I would hate to see Smoove go somewhere and become an absoloute superstar for years to come and watch our team go down in flames on O’neal’s creaky knees.
By Joshua
May 5, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this
Fire Mike Woodson. I mean if they keep this guy they really have issues. Mike Woodson has a losing record and the FANS are the ones that pay the bills so i think they should listen to us and can that sob before next season. He is a joke.
By Dr. Warren
May 5, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
Keep the Joshes, get rid of Bibby. Where’s the upside when he disappears like that in 4 playoff games? Let’s let Acie show what he can do.
By Joshua
May 5, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
OK Josh can do nothing but block shoots. And if we had a real head coach his azz would be sitting on the bench after jacking up all those damn 3’s the intire season. Mike Woodson never did a damn thing this season when Josh Smith would act a damn fool on the court like a little b***. Send Josh Smith and Mike Woodson packing neither one of them should be apart of the Atlanta Hawks.
By skippy
May 6, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this
Heres how you fix the Hawks, first keep Bibby for a year so he can groom Law, get some veteran depth to come off the bench. Keep Knight and Woodson. Speaking of the bench Woodson needs to utilize it more Chills is not the bench. We do not need a dominant center Horford is fine where he is at, so is JSmoove, also Marvin needs to start, but he does need to shoot more, contrary to what people say he might be the most talented player on the team not the best player thats easily JJ. If this team would run and not play to the other team’s style who knows how good they will be. The current roster should lose no players.
By Sam Dwyer
May 6, 2008 2:08 AM | Link to this
Atlanta needs a true center, if only to support Horford. Consider the following:
Atlanta sends Marvin Williams, Zaza and the rights to Cenk Akyol to Milwaukee for Bogut, Yi and Ramon Sessions.
I realise the irony of trading picks 1 and 2 from the same draft and both teams wishing they had 3 or 4, but Bogut is established big man, you keep a project in Yi (who would love to leave Wisconsin) and Sessions has potential. This could happen if Billy Knight goes and the love of long wingmen goes with him. Bucks get a decent SF as well.
Also, David Anderson got another Euroleage ring yesterday and is primed for a move to Hotlanta to back up the 4/5. Watch Bogut and Anderson in tandem for Australia in the Olympics to see this prospect.
By Just kill me
May 6, 2008 7:46 AM | Link to this
Both Knight and Woodson are bad, bad, BAD, BAD! What part of bad don’t these ASG people understand? Oh wait, I answered my own question. The worst part of the Hawks management is its nine-headed hydra of an ownership group. We’re doomed. Whatever decisions are made will be wrong.
Just kill me.
By Eric
May 6, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this
Billy Knight is a good GM, but people here in Atlanta don’t have a high basketball IQ to know that. Mike Woodson is a good man, but he’s one of the worst coaches in the N.B.A. He has the worst winning percentage of anybody in history that has coached the Hawks(look it up). If you are a die hard fan like I am you will know this years team underachieved, we should have been a forth or fifth seed with the talent we have. I think we sign both Smith and Chilldress, trade Marvin, release ZAZA, and go find us a coach that’s going to teach us how to play team defense. Pick a coach Hawks(Jeff Van Gundy, Avery Johnson, Mike Fratello, Paul Silas, Rick Carlisle).
By Smarter than you
May 6, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this
My basketball IQ is high enough to know that you don’t go years without a starting point guard or center on your roster. You don’t have a high enough IQ to be walking around.
By Whatever
May 6, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this
Billy Knight a good GM? I can empirically prove you wrong in two words – Speedy Claxton. There are other mathematical formulas that prove it, too, i.e. Shelden Williams and Marvin Williams to name two.
By Yale Gallanter
May 6, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this
Man, Eric got kicked to the curb.
By bigeasy830
May 6, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this
I to was very disapointed in some of the early season loses we had against the Clippers, Bocats, Pacers without O’Neal and several other bad teams. We needed to be more consistent. When we lost those games we did not have a true starting point guard, AJ and T Lue are career back-ups, Billy Knight must go. He has drafted the wrong man to many times. Coach Woodson started hinting that the roster needed a shake up in Jan. when we were struggling. It was BK who was reluctant to do anything until his job was on the line. Nothing against Marvin, he is what he is and next year if he works on his body and his outside shooting this offseason he can become that legit 2nd scoring option.BUt, you may see CP3 and Deron Williams in the Western Conf. finals. What happens with this Speedy Claxton contract, Mark can you give me some insight on that. Keep Coach Woodson, give him 2 year deal. No one could have won early on with almost every player on your team under 21. That was the case 4 years ago. Lets see what he does with a healthy Mike Bibby running his team for an entire year.
By O.J. Simpson
May 6, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
Wow, Eric’s words come back to get him nearly decaptiated by more astute observers.
By Chris
May 6, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
Horford is a 4. Josh Smith is a 4. Horford is a more consistent contributor and he is not going to be asking for $70MM this summer. The decision is easy. Let Smith go, or sign and trade him for a solid defensive center. Start Bibby, Johnson, Childress, Horford and that center, with Marvin, Law and Salim off the bench. The Hawks should be able to win with that. Josh Smith is admittedly better than Jon Koncack, but signing him for big $ would be a mistake.
By Eric
May 6, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
I am going to let you in on something. When Billy Knight took over as GM, we had a pretty good Point guard in Jason Terry(20 ppg avg). The fans and the writers pressured Knight to get rid of him, and he did. The 2005 draft came around and Knight flew Deron Williams to Atlanta and liked what he saw, but felt pressure from the fans and writers to take Marvin Williams. Look up articles from the AJC 2005 draft, they said Marvin was the best player. They said Marvin was a 6’10 forward that had handles like a point.
By Eric
May 6, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
Who drafted the youngest player in N.B.A. history to 500 block shots in Josh Smith? Who made the trade to get a two time all-star and 21 ppg scorer in Joe Johnson? Who drated the runner up to the rookie of the year award in Al Horford? Who brought the fans back to Phillips Areana with a running and dunking brand of basketball? Wasn’t that Billy???
By KEEP JOSH SMITH
May 6, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this
People, lets remember that Josh Smith is only 22 years old and is still learning, the guy has come a long way from that raw rookie we first saw and I believe he is just scratching the surface of his potential, you hear most experts say that this guy will be a major stud with a little more seasoning, so why alot of fans on here want to get rid of him is beyond me, keep both Joshes, bring in a vet. that can shoot and play both the 2 and 3, bring in a 5. From what I heard J. O’neal is a free agent after this season, see what it will take to get him, he’s under 30 yrs old, and on this team he doesn’t have to be a 20-10 guy, but a guy that can give a dbl-dbl, decent defense and leadership, also check out Pargo from the Hornets, he too is a free agent.
By Keeping It Real
May 6, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
The biggest problem we have is getting Josh Smith off the perimeter and closer to the basket and team defense. The defense will come but I am concerned about Josh Smith. Every time he hits a three pointer, his game goes south. He has all the talent in the world, but he needs to learn to play within his game.
By Eric's daddy
May 6, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Josh and Joe. Very good. There are nice pieces, no doubt. Horford, terrific. Likely Acie will be good, too. Who let the roster sit for years without an acceptable point guard and center? That was Billy. Not the sign of a “good GM,” (your words).
Who brought the fans back to Phillips Arena? Huh? The three playoff games do not erase all that has gone before.
Thanks for playing. Now run along, son.
By Ryder
May 6, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
If Josh Smith is not playing in a Hawks uniform next year all of that hard work and progress to the postseason will be set right back. He is not a true 3 or a 4, yet he is the kind of hybrid player who is the X-factor on the Hawks.
Atlanta needs a veteran bruiser of the PJ Brown mold who can clog up the middle and allow Horford to showcase his skills as the 4.
That said, what to do with Chills? I think in the long run he is better for this team than Marvin Williams, and the new GM will realize that.
I think in the end they will keep both Knight and Woodson one more year, just to see if this team can capitalize on what happened this spring for one more year.
The most important things they need to do is resign the Joshes and make sure that Acie Law gets more playing time as he is the future at PG.
By BIRDMAN,SR.
May 6, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
FOR 10 YEARS STR8, I KEPT SAYIN THIS IS OUR YEAR.BUT IT NEVER IS. WHY? WE CANT PLAY “D”! REMEMBER THAT OL SAYIN, “OFFENSE SELLS TICKETS, DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.” see, DETROIT, SAN ANTONIO,etc.,etc.,etc.
By BillyBob
May 6, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
X&O??? give me a break. Your ahead by 3 and there are 10 seconds left. Boston takes the ball out of bounds. What are you to do? FOUL. Nope, Boston drives down the court and takes a 3. Luckily they miss but dude, this ain’t X&Os.
By Mark Bradley
May 6, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
Did you happen to see how well Woodson’s men defended on that last-shot scenario you described above? Did you notice that Rajon Rondo had nowhere to pass the ball? That’s X’s and O’s, too, and it was pretty to watch. (And Woodson simply has a philosophical opposition to fouling in such a situation. Many coaches do.)
By Joshua
May 6, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley
How much money did Woodson give you to start kissing his a*?? Your a joke my friend and i really did like reading you stuff up until now. Your called two faced now….
Since you want answer any other of my question like a punk reply to that.
FIRE MIKE WOODSON
By OK Bradley
May 6, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
You need a dose of what reality. Here’s what I posted on Shultz’s blog:
can’t believe what I’m reading.
Hawks fans(?) writing the team should keep Woody is equivalent to the following:
Man, just give him three more years and Marion Campbell will have us in the Super Bowl.
Eddie Haas just hasn’t had enough time to turn the Braves into a contender.
Sure Chan Gailey can take Tech to the national title.
Geez.
Woodson is a terrible coach, OK? Did you think Dan Henning was a dandy, too, Bradley?
By Fast Eddie
May 6, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
Josh Smith is a head case…I thought he was gonna break down in Boston in Game 7, and all of y’all saw it. Horford’s a gamer…Chris is right, lose the soon to be expensive Smith and move Horford to 4. Get a banger center.
Coach? Not a Woodson fan, but say goodnight to Mr. Knight, and let the new GM make the call. Hopefully Mike Gearon Sr. is still the smartest guy in the room and can get the other dispirited owners to give the new GM a free hand.
By Jesse
May 6, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
Woody might know BBall, but his players don’t listen to him. He says all the right things when he was on tape, play defense, rebound, get out and run, but they don’t do it and that’s the problem. He might have a lot of knowledge, but can he get his players to do it and help his young players. No young guy has done well with him. It’s taken the Josh’s 4 years to do it, Horford is in a league of his own and doesn’t count. Salim? Law? Marvin? Shelden? All have not played well. They are great in college but stink it up in the pros?
By woodie
May 6, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
Billy Knight didn’t draft Chris Paul. This looks to be another Brett Favre type Atlanta goof.
By MannyT
May 6, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
Bradley asks, what might they do?
A look into young Hawks that have left Woody’s tutelage shed’s light on a key point.
Boris Diaw didn’t fit in here. He does much better in Phoenix.
Shelden Williams only court time here was a result of getting carjacked. Check out his April stats in Sactown. Last I checked, they play in the oh so tough Western conference…and they had a better record than the Hawks.
Professional NBA types and average fans agree that this team should run and be more aggressive on the offensive end. In October, the coach said roughly the same. Why do we continue to play away from the strengths of the team?
If our coaching staff doesn’t develop the talent we have, 50 wins are about as close as 50 winning lottery tickets.
The team often came out flat in the 3rd quarter. Does the halftime swoon fall on ASG or BK? I doubt that they passing out lard burgers or Josh Howard’s weed at halftime.
Would a desirable GM want to come here? Who wants to work for a broken ownership group that has regularly taken hits due to the court case and issues that your pal Schultz brings up in his column? That BK replacement would also be between the ownership group and Woody, who in your scenario, was supported over BK. Now take this fine job w/o draft picks and go out and make us better. By the way, Keep the salary budget under control and bring back both Joshes.
New GM, while doing all this with a team that you have not been close to, make sure you make us look smart about bringing you in. When you gegt done, find me some gas at $1/gallon.
All righty…let’s go to work!
By nahjay davnpooh
May 7, 2008 3:10 AM | Link to this
let it be known that mark bradley has gone on the record as saying woodson is the worst hawks coach in the team’s history.
that being said, i say move the team to jacksonville, because i am a total bandwagon tool.
By Pete
May 12, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this
KEEP THE JOSHES PLEASE!!!!!!!