Jay Bookman

By NRB

December 2, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Jay, do you mind explaining how we’re going to “pay for it literally and figuratively”? I’d love to hear it. Saxby and McDonald might not be the greatest people on earth, but anything is better than a useless Democrat.

By AJC/DNC Management

December 2, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

AP calls it.

330,000 lead right now, it’ll take Fulton four years to fill out that many ballots.

How’s that stinging as-s defeat feel, Oblahmi?

Repudiation.

bwa

By Swami Dave

December 2, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

I will be the first one to say tonight’s result is a positive one for America. In my opinion, the voters of Georgia did a great service to this nation by preventing an unchecked steering of our policy and government along the paths of socialism and redistributionism. Honestly, we have been navigating along that path too much as it is. The last thing we needed was to speed up our travelling along those failed collectivist idealogies of the past.

Here’s to wishing Senator Chambliss well and telling his straight up that it is time for him to go back to work. There are a number of opportunities for him to lead in his return.

-Swami Dave

By NRB

December 2, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

I agree with Dave. Also, it’s comforting to see the high level butt whooping that Martin is getting. It gives me hope that we’ll remain a strong Republican state for many many moons.

That way I can save up and put off moving for when the Democrats finally manage to weasel their way into power and ruin the state.

By RW-(the original)

December 2, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

I wish this entire state would look at the by county returns at the Secretary of State’s web site and then ask why the heck we have so many counties. We have entire counties that have 100% of the vote counted and the total is less than a thousand votes. Couldn’t we consolidate just a bit?

By gmk

December 2, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

16 hours/day * 7 days/week = 112 hours

112 hours * 60 mins/hr = 6720 minutes 65 words/minute * 6720 minutes = 436,800 words of complete blather from AJC/DNC each and every week.

Get a job, you deadbeat!

By jon

December 2, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

I guess the paid DNC bloggers with the canned anti-Chambliss slander get the night off.

By getalife

December 2, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Sweet gig. Just vote no on all Dem bills and go play golf.

Good for him.

By AJC/DNC Management

December 2, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

gmk: Take your whooping like a man, Nancy.

By AGB56

December 2, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Whatever happened to responsible journalism? If the AJC is going to openly support Obama…then they are obviously a liberal newspaper and are going to support all liberal issues. Responsible journalism is giving both sides of an argument and letting the public decide for themselves.

By Taxpayer

December 2, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

That’s right. Now we need Chambliss to get to Washington and work with Obama to bring us home some bacon. We need a big contract for FA-22s along with another 300 billion dollar farm bill and another 700 billion dollar bailout. And on top of that, I just love the way Chambliss has been burning through that Republican campaign money at the golf courses and all. Keep up the good work.

Wait a minute. What’s that you say. No more jets for the military. In fact, there’s going to be some serious cuts in military spending and Georgia will be on the losing end of that stick. What else. No, you don’t say. The big fat juicy farm bill is in serious trouble. Bummer. And that’s not all. What do you mean the drill baby drill stuff is gone. What about the deals and all that hard work. Well, what good is Saxby. Go ahead. Take your time. I’m waiting. Go ahead. Think about it. What’s that. He’s a good lap dog for Imperial Sugar. Well, you got me on that one all right.

Not to worry though. I’m sure Saxby will be right there voting with the Georgia Republicans all the way just like he has been all along. What. You don’t say. He did. No way. He didn’t. Well, the nerve. And he calls himself a Republican.

By GodHatesTrash

December 2, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Georgia - the white backlash begins!

What a bunch of losers.

By @@

December 2, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

About Martin but he had a lot of the obstacles in his path.

Yup! 330,000 so far.

Psssssssss

By RW-(the original)

December 2, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

OK fess up Dems. Did you really want that dweeby looking Jim Martin being your face in Washington? At least now you can claim to hate your Senator instead of pretending Martin is your kind of go to guy.

By BT fan

December 2, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

Thanks again Jay and Cynthia for pushing Republicans across the finish line first in Georgia. You both have a mandate of dislike among conservatism in State of Georgia and Capital Hill. Radical left Wing penmanship paves the way for these victories and will prevail more as you both continue employment at ajc..KEEP UP GOOD WORK

By Greg Mendel

December 2, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

“I will be the first one to say tonight’s result is a positive one for America.” — Swami

And I’ll say Saxby Chambliss will no more represent the interests of Georgians than he ever has. Without George Bush, Saxby Chambliss is a non-entity. The man is a limpet. Georgia has elected a parasite without a host.

By jon

December 2, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Today’s election results show that Obama won the national election through the turnout of the star-struck voters. Those that know little about the issues, but turned out to vote themselves a free lunch or be ” a part of history”.

Being a patriot is hard work. Being informed is hard work. Voting should be hard. Today the good citizens of Georgia showed the country that they are willing to do the heavy lifting.

By RW-(the original)

December 2, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Burke County reports in their 17 precincts.

Chambliss—2,532

Martin—2,533

That would have been one nasty recount fight had it been for County Commission.

By getalife

December 2, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Saxby Chambliss haiku:

A man with one limb I smeared and lied to get in I just won again!

By GodHatesTrash

December 2, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

A corrupt worthless clown, elected by ignorant, scared crazies.

Brainless Georgians Elect Chickenhawk Shameless.

By "The Corporal"

December 2, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Filibuster the elephant lives !

By @@

December 2, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Harvey “Big Daddy” Pollitt from Cat on a Hot Tin Roof

“Maybe ‘ya thought you’d be coming to my funeral, instead of my birthday?”

Classic Burl Ives.

“‘Ya got pain…at least you know you’re alive.”

Old movies are the bestest movies.

By Greg Mendel

December 2, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

RE: RW-(the original):

Burke County???? Holy Moley!!!! In the past it would have been 2, 532 to 0! Amazing!

By Ray

December 2, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Trash,

A corrupt worthless clown, elected by ignorant, scared crazies. You couldn’t be talking about the Annointed One, now could you? That entourage on the stage behind Martin speaks very loudly as to why Chambliss won. Martin was surrounded by gangster hip-hop morons who seem to represent his voter base. He pandered to the wrong people, Trash. Now who is an ignorant, scared crazy?

By jon

December 2, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Corporal,

Are you smarter than Carl Sagan?

By Swami Dave

December 2, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

Actually, Greg, it is the national Democratic Party that in no way represents the interests or attitudes of the majority of voters in the State of Georgia. It is entertaining to hear anyone who is a supporter of redistributionism / collectivism accuse someone else of being a “parasite”. It is through the enactment of liberal policy that so many are today allowed to be parasites ON a host. That “host” specially being the United States taxpayers whose productive efforts are confiscated to fund their transfer payments.

Good try though.

-Swami Dave

By Sad to Live in Georgia

December 2, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

“Gangster hip-hop morons” are “trash” whose votes shouldn’t be courted? How small-minded and unsurprisingly, typically Georgian of you to say so. Good luck with Chambliss.

By jon

December 2, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Saxby back in the Senate.

Hillary out of the Senate so she can backstab Obama.

Those wacky Minnesotans didn’t put the buffoon Frankin in the Senate.

Libs p** because The Chosen One kept Gates.

Not that bad of a week.

By RW-(the original)

December 2, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

Greg,

Could you expand on your 2,532 to 0 projection for Burke county in the past?

Just to help you out let me state that I don’t disagree that that area was once very single minded of choice and I’m very surprised to see that even a split, but they used to be single mindedly Democrats and if your angle is racial both candidates were people of pallor.

By GodHatesTrash

December 2, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

Shameless panders to scared racist idiots.

Well done, Senator Chickenhawk.

Know your electorate.

By Ray

December 2, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

Sad to live in Georgia,

Listened to the lyrics of some of these idiot’s “songs”? Anyone’s eligible vote should count, no matter what a moron they are. We have to live with that.
Martin just surrounded himself with the wrong people if he expected to win a Senate seat from Georgia. He needed a huge black vote to win. Looks like the loyal black voter base didn’t show up today…… no one black was running, it seems. He just depended on the wrong people to get him elected. Chambliss is no prize but he will ensure a filibuster option in the Senate.

By Mr. Snarky

December 2, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

Ah yes…Saxby wins. Georgia’s low test scores made manifest by lousy voter choices. Republicans can increase their majority by further reducing educational spending.

Yuk it up tonight republicans. Your achievements will be sparse over the next few years. Saxby’s will be sparser…you might as well have voted in a tree sloth for all he will accomplish.

By "The Corporal"

December 2, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

To Jon

You obviously missed my post in the blog of a few days ago ….

“I believe God gives a basic awareness of Himself to every human being. One can choose to deny that awareness or seek further enlightenment. It’s always your choice.”

That said, I am not smarter than Carl Sagan but his Creator is (and I believe Einstein was also). In any case, I believe I am wiser.

Big difference between smart and wise. One of the wisest men I ever knew plowed with a mule. I wish he was still around.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”.

We’ll see one day - won’t we?

By Chad Harris

December 2, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

@ Ray—

It wasn’t the wrong people that Martin surrounded himself with. There were simply not enough educated people who knew enough to come out to vote.

It wouldn’t be pretty to start lining up Chambliss voters and quizzing them as to their knowledge about any subject period.

And perhaps when Obama was considering whether to come to Georgia he remembered that Jim out of some principle voted for Edwards when Edwards wasn’t even on the ballot in Georgia.

And despite the lies for the stupid Chambliss told on the Senate Floor before the FISA vote (the cases are still alive in the Northern District of California)

Meanwhile back at the FISA ranch for amatuer lawyers like Swami Dave

From Judge Walker in the heasring this afternoon in San Fran:

“In essence that gives the attorney general carte blanche to immunize anyone.” Walker said, wondering what odd creature Congress had fashioned. “What other statute is like this statute?”

When a federal judge asks that kind of question (Swami Dave can’t learn this from Law and Order) he’s getting ready to smack down a law as unconstitutional—yep Chambliss’ pet FISA b*tch is fixin’ to get smacked down. And now look at the votes in the Senate all you mathematicians ‘cause they has done git changed. 59 Dems is goin’ to be swarn in come Jan. 3 for the 111th (higher than most JawJaws can count) Congress.

“Much of the arguments focused on whether Congress violated the separation of powers doctrine; whether the fact that the EFF could and is suing the government over the spying makes immunity constitutional, and the legality of a provision that lets the attorney general give immunity to companies that didn’t even help with the spying.”

Judge Walker to Chambliss: “Suck mah Grits JawJaw Cracker.”

By Swami Dave

December 2, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

Well here we go…..

To hear many of the liberal whiners, Martin lost because Georgia voters are stupid and / or racist.

Apparently, enough of those voters statewide were intelligent enough to find their way to the polls in sufficient numbers to make their voices heard. Apparently, enough of them were sufficiently aware of the campaign and the issues to cast a vote sim support of the candidate of their choice. Apparently, their had enough awareness to recognize the local & national implications to fufill their responsiblity.

Likewise, it was not Chambliss & Republicans who made the decision to attempt to win an election by largely completely focusing their efforts on a couple of counties specifically dominated by a racially-identified demographic. They, instead, ran a state-wide campaign seeking to represent voters of the entire state instead the high-density, urban districts.

Ergo…..Georgia voters weren’t stupid; they achieved the results that they intended. Nor was it the majority of Georgia voters who attempted to isolate & racially segment the electorate to win a “targeted” campaign.

In the end, Martin lost by 300K votes & around 16%.

…as he should have (and likely would have on November 4th were it not for the convergence of Senator Obama atop the ticket, a legitimate Libertarian candidate, & the financial meltdown / bailout vote).

The big question to be answered in the future being:

Was this runoff result a bulkwart connected to the previous Republican control in Washington or (like Fowler-Coverdell 1992) the “first” campaign (and possible harbinger) for the 2010 midterms? That is a question the next 12-18 months will have to answer.

-Swami Dave

By GodHatesTrash

December 2, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Now Swami, let’s face it - Georgia voters have always been racist and stupid, since the very beginning of our country’s history.

Nothing changed today.

By getalife

December 2, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

Well, GA voted against the only accountability they will get for the bailouts and destruction of our country.

Not a good message to send to our broken government.

Anyhoo, “Rove: We Wouldn’t Have Invaded Iraq If We Knew The Truth About WMDs.”

Punked by “curveball” but France never bought it.

By Swami Dave

December 2, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

Welcome back Chad….

It wasn’t the wrong people that Martin surrounded himself with. There were simply not enough educated people who knew enough to come out to vote. It wouldn’t be pretty to start lining up Chambliss voters and quizzing them as to their knowledge about any subject period.

To your point about the “education” or intelligence of Chambliss’ voters; I will graciously point you to a website where just such a comparative test was undertaken.

http://www.howobamagotelected.com

When the poll was first taken, it was given to Obama voters who (on average) scored very poorly in general knowledge about the election in which they had already cast a vote. After listening to the blathering about “how McCain voters would have fared”, they paid to have McCain voters polled as well (in subsequent results that will be released via press release tomorrow).

Feel free to check out the results. Assuming any extrapolation between races (which, since they were done for voters in the President race nationally, I admit might be questionable), a case could be made that your contention is wrong.

As to FISA, you may not want to get too excited based on quotes and statements made by a judge in the San Francisco US District Court as it relates to constitutional questions. The kook liberal fringe had been shopping this case trying to find a friendly courtroom for a while. Your problem arises in that this District Court & its appellate (9th Circus Court of Appeals) is one of the most overturned districts (by the true arbiters, the US Supreme Court). Realistically, that is where this case will be decided - so we’ll see.

Oh, I’m not a “amateur” lawyer. I’m not a lawyer at all. However, I am educated and skilled enough to actually do the basic research required to invalidate your entire contention that Chambliss should be in prison for his statements during the campaign. Doing that took no “lawyering” skill at all.

As I said in that post, beware jumping into the fray insulting the intelligence, skill, and ability of those who were already here and have already proved themselves. You have, as of yet (and as evidenced above), simply not done so.

-Swami Dave

By Chad Harris

December 2, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Yo Swami Dave—Earth to Swami Dave—let’s recognize it for what it was.

Getting the Chambliss voters to recite the issues and explicate them wouldn’t be purty. It would be almost verbatim the jibberish that Palin recited. But you keep her on the ticket in 2012 Swami. It’s a gift I couldn’t have created with a magic wand.

There’s no evidence that the white crackers who came out to vote for Chambliss in bigger numbers than the predominantly white voters who came out to vote for Jim had any understanding of any issues—and I wouldn’t single out finding the polls and equate it to understanding issues. There are a lot of dumb reasons to cast a vote and holding a moronic sign that says “I want to keep my gun” when Obama’s not making any effort to take the idiot’s guns is not one I’d showcase.

Martin ran state wide, and there isn’t a helluva lot of racial diversity in counties outside the ones in Metro Atlanta.

But in 15 years the Black voters and Hispanic voters will grow exponentially.

Ergo the vast majority of Georgians are stupid, and Georgia ranks last or next to last or 3rd from the bottom and has in educational rankings since you’ve been born.

You wouldn’t want the Chambliss voters taking your oral exam for Board Certification anytime soon lil Swami.

The big questions to be answered in the future that will impact Georgians although they won’t understand the dynamics are how well Obama’s team and the overwhelmingly Democratic Congress can work to get us out of the clusterf*cks that the moron Bush and his administration created. One thing for certain—this coming administration will undo all the stupid Bush executive orders that are spinning out day after day.

I doubt you understand this, but in the Nothern District of California this afternoon Judge Walker gave very ser ious indications that he is getting ready to strike down the recent FISA legislation that was constructed not to give the Telcos and Comcos immunity, but to cover the Bush administration’s butt.

Then it will be on up the appellate ladder to the 9th then to an en banc 9th and then to the Supremes.

You inquired as to what Chambliss lied about and I’m happy to serve it up.

To keep the only part you’re going to comprehend simple for you, Chambliss asserted that the FISA bill was needed to keep the poor lil’ Telcos from going broke from litigation. Nothing could be further from the truth and I’m going to outline it for you. Get someone to interpret the points for you.

El Swami Davo wrote last night and I’m replying (let me know if you understood any of it Swami Davo):

@Swami Dave

By Swami Dave

December 1, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

*For our newest liberal friend, Chad:

Palin was the same moron she always is talking to grinning morons who all of whom doen’t have the foreign or domestic policy awareness of a 3rd grader.

I’ll look forward to you showing your domestic and foreign policy intellect. I’ll simply suggest that until you show some semblance of ability to make a policy point or defend one, you would do well to avoid downplaying the abilities of others (who have been doing successfully doing it for sometime).

Chambliss should be in prison for his absurd attacks on Cleland after having faked a knee injury because he was too much of a coward to serve.

Actually, Chris, you would do well to develop some basis in law. Specifically, slander, libel, or defamation are rarely adjudicated as criminal cases so there would be no expectation of prison (even if the charge were valid). Just as Senator Chambliss could not bring suit against you for voicing your baseless claims about his “faked injury” or alleged “cowardice”.

Chambliss false statements on FISA were an insult to all Americans.

Simply for the grins and giggles, which “false” statements would those be? Or would this just be the second example in one post of pointless liberal blather?

This should be fun…..*

You’re getting mixed up—my name’s not Chris, but you did ID the first letter which is a stretch for most Jaw Jaw wingnuts.

I’m not “new”, but I limit my time on these blogs because of hot air that is all hat and no cattle like yourself grandiosely making claims that you have legal expertise without any substantive evidence that would indicate you do.

You’re taking the position that this moron Palin is qualified and informed to hold any federal or state office is that correct? I didn’t see anything from you to butress her qulifications. LOL you seem to want some kind of demonstration of the excellence and competence that meets your high standards. You don’t have a clue who someone is or what they could know or not know and because you have a keyboard and mouse you’re already cocksure of your delusions. Typical.

Instead of butressing Chambliss’ speech because you obviously have no grasp of what he said or FISA) you simply guessed that I didn’t have a command of the legal facts.

Bring to me any legal issue where you think you have a scintilla of skill.

I noticed you had nothing specific to say about FISA but you want me to be specific and I will. Chambliss made a speech replete with false statements as to Telco Immunity which is still vibrant and alive and will be argued this morning in Vaugn Walker’s district courtroom in the Northern District of California @ 10AM. Be there or be square. I know you had no idea.

You stated without showing a scintilla of insight on FISA legislation, specifically S. 2248 that finally passed after a House and Senate Conference, that:

*You wrote:

Simply for the grins and giggles, which “false” statements would those be? Or would this just be the second example in one post of pointless liberal blather?*

The MSM didn’t comprehend FISA and I can guarantee you don’t. I’m glad to provide the CLE for ya or as your ideal candidate sis wont to say you betcha:

Chambliss’ speech asserted that the Telcos (and Comcos the ISPs who are wiretapping your internet communications along with NSA—try reading Jim Bamford’s llatest book—try for five minutes—I know reading isn’t comfortable for Wingnuts) would face financial ruin if they were sued and ridiculously claimed they had “done nothing wrong”. What was Chambliss worried about if the Telcos and their corporate attorneys who were ex-DOJsters specifically in an Intelligence Unity of the DOJ that is not well known to the public were following the letter of the law? In fact the corporate attorneys for the Telcos who signed off on their conduct wrote the wiretapping laws that are in place in the first place.

1) The most contentious issue has been, and continues to be, the proposed retroactive immunity for telco companies. Since the ugly head of the issue was first raised last summer with the railroaded passage of the Protect America Act the telcos were never in any grave danger financially from the civil suits currently pending in the Northern District of California that have been remanded narrowly by the Ninth Circuit.

2) If their conduct is as has been described to date, they are already protected from liability for the actions that have been described, both by existing statutory immunity and by a right to indemnification from the government. The full court press for immunity by the Administration is entirely about cover for the lawless Bush Administration, and not about the impending financial demise of the telcos.

3) The fact that the Telcos face no significant legal liability but that the Immunity provision was purely CYA for officials in the Bush Administration has been discussed in pandemic proportions in countless law reviews by individuals with significant experience in 4th Amendment/government litigation in general, and the specific civil suits that may still be pending if the Ninth Circuit and ultimately the Supreme Court let them go forward if a cert. grant is in the future. Right now, one of the best known suits is being argued in District Court in the Northern District of California today as I’ve said repeatedly.

4) Chambliss mentioned nothing about his and his Republican Collegue’s intense efforts to cover liability of the Bush administration, particularly Addington and Cheney, and their legal staffs.

The Bush Administration, with the help of telco providers (telelphone, cellphone, internet and other communication providers) engaged in massive wiretapping and datamining efforts, ostensibly to protect the United States from attack by terrorists. The legality of much of these programs has been questioned in many fora, but the germane ones for the immunity demand by the Administration are the civil suits that have been filed against both the telcos and the government that are currently pending in Federal courts. There are a handful of different suits out there (40 is a number that has been used, but some have been consolidated); the best known are the Hepting v. AT&T case being prosecuted by the EFF and the al-Haramain case.

At Tuesday’s (today’s) hearing, EFF will argue that the flawed FISA Amendments Act (FAA) improperly attempts to take away Americans’ claims arising out of the First and Fourth Amendments, violates the federal government’s separation of powers as established in the Constitution, and robs innocent telecom customers of their rights without due process of law. Signed by President Bush earlier this year, the FAA allows for the dismissal of the lawsuits over the telecoms’ participation in the warrantless surveillance program if the government secretly certifies to the court that the surveillance did not occur, was legal, or was authorized by the president. Attorney General Michael Mukasey filed that classified certification with the court in September and is demanding that the cases be dismissed.

EFF is representing the plaintiffs in Hepting v. AT&T, a class action lawsuit brought on behalf of millions of AT&T customers whose private domestic communications and communications records were illegally handed over to the National Security Agency. EFF has been appointed co-coordinating counsel along with the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) for all 46 outstanding lawsuits concerning the government’s warrantless surveillance program.

Also Tuesday, in the afternoon, the court will hear the arguments on the future of Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation v. Bush, a case alleging that the government illegally wiretapped calls between the charity and its lawyers.

5) . Under both traditional tort theories, as well as specific statutory provisions under FISA and related statutes, monetary damages are sought by the plaintiffs. These suits are not just critical for the individual plaintiffs, but due to the refusal of the Bush Administration to be honest and forthright about what spying they are doing on the American public, and the refusal of Congress to demand answers and accountability on the same, the civil suits are pretty much the only vehicle that the American public, and posterity, have for finding the truth about what has been both done to them and in their name. The Administration now, of course, wants to close off this avenue of discovery and accountability for their nefarious actions through the immunization of the telcos for their acts (which would result in dismissal of the civil suits).

6) you don’t need immunity for legal and proper conduct. In this regard, telcos are already specifically protected and “immunized” from liability for anything they did that was even remotely legal and performed under the broad provisions of FISA (50 USC 1801 et. seq.), the general criminal wiretapping statutes (18 USC 2510 et. seq., specifically 18 USC 2520), the Communications Act (47 USC et. seq., specifically 47 USC 605) and the Stored Communications Act (18 USC 2701 et. seq., specifically 18 USC 2707 and 2712). There is already, by existing law, no liability for any conduct undertaken, by either the telcos or the government, in compliance with these statutes. So, make no mistake about it, it is blatantly illegal behavior (and NOT good faith legal behavior), performed at the Bush Administration’s demand and direction, for which the immunity is being sought.

*Chambliss asserted on the Senate floor that the Telcos needed immunity and could be bankrupted as did his Rethug collegues, but he did not stipulate what the conduct was that required immnity.

What Chambliss meant and was correct in guessing, is that people like you who worship Palin are too naive to understand that he and his collegues including Bond, McConnell, Corynyn and Sessions desperately wanted to cover the Administration’s butt.

7) Many, including, seemingly, members of the SSCI and witnesses argue that the telcos were not operating under statutory “safe harbor” provisions as described in the last paragraph.

So, what if the telcos engaged in behavior outside of said “safe harbor” statutory provisions that turned out to be illegal behavior, but did so in response to to heated demands from the Bush Administration, and with assurances by the Administration that there was a legal basis and dire necessity; shouldn’t they be entitled to immunity from massive civil liability damages for that conduct?

No; that is where the indemnification portion of the argument kicks in. Indemnification is the act of supplying indemnity in a contract:

An indemnity contract arises when one individual takes on the obligation to pay for any loss or damage that has been or might be incurred by another individual. The right to indemnity and the duty to indemnify ordinarily stem from a contractual agreement, which generally protects against liability, loss, or damage.

8) the telcos have just such indemnification agreements with the Administration/government, that we do not know about because they are classified and hidden, that so protect them for any liability and losses resulting from the litigation they are faced with; thus they do not need immunity to protect them from potential liability verdicts, they are already covered. Telcos have some of the best attorneys and legal departments in the world, and they also recruit heavily from the upper echelons of the Department of Justice (see, for instance: William Barr and Peter Keisler, who is now, of course, conveniently back in the DOJ leadership).

Many of the corporate counsel for the Telcos swung out of the DOJ revolving door and were specifically chief litigators for the DOJ’s Intelligence Units and by that I mean Office of Intelligence within its National Security Division (NSD), replacing the department’s Office of Intelligence Policy and Review (OIPR).

9) Simply put, telco legal departments are huge, experienced, and cutthroat competent. They did not fall off the turnip truck last night, nor any other night; and they have been dealing with wiretapping issues for law enforcement and national security concerns since the telephone came into use. As someone that has had dealings with such entities regarding bad/illegal wiretaps, I can attest that they always protect themselves vis a vis the governmental entity they are working for and are not shy about the use of indemnity provisions.

10) Is there any basis for the Administration having given such an indemnification agreement to the telcos in such an unusual national security scenario and with such massive potential exposure?

You betcha.

11) The President has the authority under 50 USC 1431 et seq. to authorize exactly the type of immunity agreements that are described herein, and, furthermore, to promulgate specific rules (including secrecy and classification, see 50 USC 1433) for their implementation.

Now, it should be noted that one of the provisions of 50 USC 1431 is notification of Congress, specifically the respective Armed Services Committees, if the amount in question exceeds 25 million dollars. It will be interesting to see if this was, in fact, done or if the Administration disingenuously took the position that there was not yet an amount in controversy because there was not yet any known or set amount of indemnified liability (which is my bet under both a reading of 1431 and 1432(f)) and has kept this under their belt with the exception of limited disclosure to the Gang of Four/Gang of Eight.

In either case, this is potentially an explanation for why even the Democratic Congressional leadership has been compliant in ramming through passage of immunity; they don’t want the public to find out that they signed off on massive liability to be paid out of taxpayer’s pockets.

12) For the foregoing reasons, the telcos are already protected by the immunity of existing statutory safe harbor provisions for legal conduct requested by the Administration and will have indemnity for other acts demanded by the Administration. I respectfully submit that the telcos are already sufficiently protected from the Spectre (some pun intended) of massive financial peril of the existing civil lawsuits; and that the only real reason for the desperate push for immunity is panic among Administration officials that their craven illegality will be exposed and they will be held to account. We now know for a fact, that which we have always suspected, thanks to Mike McConnell, namely that the entire belligerent push for FISA reform is all about immunity, and not about what George Bush would call “protectun Amarikuh”.

The minor issues with FISA that need tweaking could have been easily accomplished and, indeed, Congress offered long ago to work with them to do just that; but, of course, were belligerently spurned because, as Dick Cheney famously bellowed, “We believe… that we have all the legal authority we need”. This furious push has been about immunity, from the start, to prevent discovery of the Administration’s blatant and unconscionable criminal activity. The House of Representatives, and the cave-in Administration cover-up specialists in the Senate as well, should take a long, hard look at what is really going on here and steadfastly refuse the Administration’s self serving craven grab for the cover of telco immunity.

13) One last point. In addition to the foregoing, there is an extremely good case to be made that the granting of retroactive immunity to the telcos would comprise an improper and unjust taking of the existing plaintiffs’ right to compensation under the Fifth Amendment and would, therefore, be in direct violation of the Constitution. I don’t want to belabor this thought; just put it out there so that it is considered in the mix.

See: Is It Constitutional for the Senate to Retroactively Immunize From Civil Liability the Telecoms That Provided the Government with Information About Customers’ Communications? by Anthony J. Sebok

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/sebok/20080129.html

**The GOP hopes to use FISA as an electoral cudgel. Allow me to detail their groundwork: the Rove strategery for using national security for partisan political gain; planting this with Beltway press — The Hill, Time, and Newsweek, for starters (who miss the fundamental point that telecom immunity is bribery to keep the Administration’s lawbreaking secrets, undercutting the threat of economic sanction as hush money); trotting out Dick Cheney to sow the seeds of fearmongering; and the obstructionist GOP failure set-up just in time for the State of the Union.

Add in a press which does not comprehend the details, you have a recipe for confusion — which is exactly the set-up for the SOTU that the Bush WH wants.**

From Sen. Russ Feingold:

The conduct of Senate Republicans yesterday was shameless. After weeks of insisting that it is absolutely critical to finish the FISA legislation by February 1…they obstructed all efforts to actually work on the bill. Now they want to simply ram the deeply flawed Intelligence Committee bill through the Senate. They refused to allow amendments to be offered or voted on….

…Monday’s cloture vote will be a test of whether the majority is willing to stand up to the administration and stand up for our rights.

The GOP’s conduct was insulting — to the Democrats, to the American public, and to the Congress as a whole.

-Swami Dave

By mike hussein smith

December 2, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

Great to hear from you tonight, Taxpayer. What a post!!! Plus it was such a sweet palliative from the kneejerkisms of ac/dc, Ray, Swami Dave

By Swami Dave

December 3, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this

Chad:

Sorry for the mixup of your name & congrats on the detailed info about FISA. We can disagree in our opinion of it, but I’ll credit the breadth of the information (whether you produced it or gathered / organized it from other sources).

On the election, I would contend that Georgia voters showed intelligence and wisdom by the results. I will avoid casting aspersions on either candidates voters related to their race. Personally, I support our decision based on my support for the principles of freedom and opportunity. Any vote cast in opposition to liberalism / collectism is (in my opinion) a “smart” one.

Welcome the party - I expect the next couple of years to be fun. Pending the results in Minnesota, now begins the process of policy / governance.

-Swami Dave

By polar

December 3, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

Georgia screwed up twice in a row. After the character assassination Saxhole Chambliss did to Max Cleland 6 years ago, he should have long ago been declared unfit to serve in any government capacity. Instead, you keep re-electing this piece of useless dishonest GOP garbage.

By Chad Harris

December 3, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

Swami Dave—

You extrapolate from Chamblis’ lying commercials produced by Wingnut 527s “intelligence and wisdom.” They were pathetic.

You extrapolate “intelligence and wisdom” from an idiot who knows she has the foreign policy grasp of her elementary school child, so comes up with the parody of herself that she can see Russia from Alaska where btw she has not been in Juneau or her office a full day since her debacle.

I can’t believe you see a future for your party with Palin on any ticket but if you do I’ve got the popcorn.

I don’t believe that you tell yourself Bush has been a splendid success the way the base deludes itself—at least I hope not.

By Chad Harris

December 3, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

One development I’ll bet Citigroup didn’t showcase in their pitch to the egregious bailout from Bush Treasury was that they may be tincup in hand for billions, but they are spending $20 million for the right to name the Mets new ballpark Citi Field. Does that make all of us, “in a broad sense shareholders in the Mets” as George Vescy wrote in the sports pages of the NYT?

By The Past is Present

December 3, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this

Just a few years ago, the Republicans, with their majority and control over Rules, warned Democrats that, if they “dared” to use the fillibuster to block judicial nominees, key bills etc., they would launch the “Nuclear Option”, shutting down fillibuster by simple majority vote, rather than cloture.

Now, the Republicans are scrambling to retain the power of fillibuster…that same power they “warned” the Democrats against, just a few years ago.

Where’s that moral high-ground now, right-wingers?

By AJC/DNC Management

December 3, 2008 5:28 AM | Link to this

Palin Power.

bwa

By AJC/DNC Management

December 3, 2008 5:48 AM | Link to this

CHICAGO/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President-elect Barack Obama is not planning to implement a windfall profit tax on oil companies because prices have dropped below $80 a barrel, an aide said on Tuesday.

Since democrats have been talking about a “windfall” profit tax on oil companies since the days when oil was $20 a barrel, how does it feel to see another kkkampaign promise blown into the wind?

By AJC/DNC Management

December 3, 2008 5:52 AM | Link to this

Do democrats keep any kkkampaign promises?

Ms. Pelosi likes to thunder against “the failures of eight years of the Bush economic policies.” The stock market has collapsed, she hisses, “because of a Republican philosophy of greed, deregulation, and tax cuts.” But almost the entire decline in the economy has come since she picked up the Speaker’s gavel. The stock market has decisively voted thumbs-down on the Pelosi paradigm, with the Dow falling from 12,157 in November 2006 to 8,600 today.

And it’s not just the stock market that has imploded. Let’s consider the gale of destruction since the Pelosi era began. The folks at Americans for Tax Reform helped me compile some of this unhappy economic data. The night of the Democratic landslide election of 2006, the net worth of the country was roughly $50 trillion. Now it’s at least $6 trillion lower. For the massive 100-million-strong American investor class Pelosi-economics is looking like a boarded-up home in foreclosure. Nor have workers fared much better. Democrats promised jobs and pay raises, but the unemployment rate has climbed steadily from 4.5% to 6.7%. The misery index (inflation plus the unemployment rate) has nearly doubled during Ms. Pelosi’s watch.-WallStreetJournal

By Bud Wiser

December 3, 2008 5:58 AM | Link to this

Well, well, well, it looks like the sniveling Obama freakazoids over at NBC have already started their in-house censorship by snipping SNL. Reality is only a perception by the viewer; if you think it is real, then it must be….

By GodHatesTrash

December 3, 2008 6:18 AM | Link to this

AJC headlines I’d like to see:

Georgia’s Role As National Embarrassment Continues

Shameless Re-Elected by Sniveling Racists

Shameless’s Coalition of Weak-witted and Mentally Ill Too Numerous for Martin to Overcome

By Bud Wiser

December 3, 2008 6:26 AM | Link to this

By GodHatesTrash

December 3, 2008 6:18 AM | Link to this

AJC headlines I’d like to see:

Georgia’s Role As National Embarrassment Continues

Shameless Re-Elected by Sniveling Racists

Shameless’s Coalition of Weak-witted and Mentally Ill Too Numerous for Martin to Overcome

Yeah Trash, no doubt, a picture ofyour face with a toothless grin, dripping chewing tobacco, would make this scenrio complete.

By GodHatesTrash

December 3, 2008 6:56 AM | Link to this

Shameless Poll Workers

By SOUTHERN ATL

December 3, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

The people of this “GREAT STATE” had SAXBY CHAMBLISS on their mind….I am dining on CROW…..This does not look good for the state as a WHOLE in the long run…GEORGIA will miss out on a lot of much needed REVENUE!!! The people have spoken loud and clear!

By FastJack

December 3, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

Congratulations to the Georgia voters who prove yet again that racism and the good old white boys club aka Bubba is alive and well and nurtured in the South. Amazing that not only once you believed Saxby’s lies about Cleland, but then reinforced it with Saxby’s lies about Martin. But, you’re right - the South will rise again - and God Have Mercy On Us All.

By norman ravitch

December 3, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

Blacks came out in Nov. but were too feckless to come out in Dec. Democrats had better make their party in Georgia more white or they will always lose.

By Swami Dave

December 3, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

Chad:

By any objective measure, most all of the “attack” ads by both campaigns in the Chambliss-Martin race were at very best dubious. Supporters of Chambliss can equally point to ads like the “Saxby wants to raise your taxes by 23%” run by the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee as patently dishonest. You & I both know that is a blatant lie by omission targeted to Senator Chambliss’ support of the Fair Tax (which would repeal the 16th amendment at its passage). There is plenty of blame to go around to both campaigns if one wishes to address the tenor & honesty of the campaign advertising.

On Sarah Palin, I will simply state that she STILL has more executive experience than either of the other 3 individuals on the Presidential ticket. I will also refrain from identifying anybody as the “future” of my party right now. There will be alot of time and opportunity for that individual to distinguish themselves over the next couple of years when Republicans have to work with the soon-to-be inaugrated administration (or act in opposition to it).

On President Bush, there are a number of areas with which I have been disappointed. Most recently, its actions in calling for & delivering “bailouts” that largely represent more socialist direction of our country than many Democrats have attempted. Where the administration expanded the welfare state and increased the redistribution of wealth, I opposed them. Where they acted in the best interests of the security of our country or the expansion of our economy, I supported them.

Just as I plan to do for the next administration - support them when they are right; oppose them when they are wrong.

-Swami Dave

By Jasin

December 3, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Well, we did it again. Georgia always falls for the okey-doke. We just relected the same guy that supported Bush lock, stock and barrel and therefore is directly responsible for the shape our country is in. But I guess Georgia wants more of the same.

By scrappy

December 3, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Perhaps I will become a farmer so Sax will send me money from the government. Those are the only people he helps anyway…

By Michael

December 3, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Hooray for Saxby!

Ordinarily I would comment on this thread but Swami Dave is doing a good job expressing my thoughts! I agree with everything you’ve said throughout!

By Georgia Sucks

December 7, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

After reading some of these comments, its clear to see that the right-wing Georgians are now sighing in relief. Nevermind that Martin created a runoff and almost pulled it off against a disrespectful and parasitic incumbent. It is plain to see that the Democrats have completely wiped the proverbial floor with Republicans across the country.

So what are you going to do now Georgians, you want to try again at succession from the Union and get your butt kicked inside out again? Why don’t you just be the good lap dog that the Union molded you into many moons ago. Don’t let the Democrats (North) come down there and put a whoopin on you again.

GOBAMA!!!