Home > Jay Bookman > Archives > 2008 > November > 28 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThe nightmare in Mumbai continues
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. Unfortunately, while we were feasting surrounded by friends and family, a group of well-trained, well-armed terrorists were wreaking havoc in Mumbai, formerly known as Bombay.
The violence continues, with government forces still trying to hunt down and kill or capture terrorists. The death toll has topped 140, and will likely go higher. The English-language Indian press and blogs (here’s a site compiling blogs, including first-hand reports) are full of reports of horror, bravery, anger, threats — the reaction an echo of our own responses not that long ago to Sept. 11.
A lot of the anger is directed at a perceived lack of security in India, but the truth is that a dozen or more well-trained gunmen, acting in coordination, could wreak similar havoc in any major city in the world. The terrorists were reportedly dropped off in dinghies by a larger ship offshore, and it is all too easy to imagine similar attacks against Miami, New York, Los Angeles or other US ports.
Initial indications are that the attackers were Islamic extremists and may have trained in Pakistan, heightening India-Pakistan tensions as well as those between India’s Hindu and Muslim populations. In other words, the terrorists are succeeding in that goal as well.
Comments
By Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
November 28, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Jay, hope yours was a Happy Thanksgiving, too. Your statement that, “it is all too easy to imagine similar attacks against Miami, New York, Los Angeles or other US ports” is on point. While 911 was principally due to the Clinton Administration’s (hey, aren’t those folks also the backbone of PEOTUS’ administration - let’ hope they’ve learnt something) evisceration of the US intelligence infrastructure, President Bush has kept us safe since. Undoubtedly, the current administration has repelled innumerable attempts at violence that would make the current Mumbai violence pale by comparision. G-d bless President Bush for keeping us safe and a pox on those BDS-addled persons who refuse to acknowledge his record or diminsh the achievement by saying he was “onlu doing his job.” Let’s hope PEOTUS does as well on his turn, if not, it will be a tragedy.
By GaNative
November 28, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Oh it’s coming to America one day. We’ve allowed too many of them in our country and they hold no allegiance to America. Just like I predicted that the American economy was going to fall because of allowing them in here to take our jobs, I also predict the violence will come next.
By dittohead
November 28, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
TERRORISM was at the bottom of the list of importance for Obama supporters….this innocent attitude was fostered- promoted by terrorists loving liberal journalists…. Obama wants to parole all terrorists now locked up in GITMO
By dittohead
November 28, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
TERRORISM was at the bottom of the list of importance for Obama supporters….this innocent attitude was fostered- promoted by terrorists loving liberal journalists…. Obama wants to parole all terrorists now locked up in GITMO
By TW
November 28, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
While 911 was principally due to the Clinton Administration’s
The CIA didn’t dertify bin laden as the USS COLE attacker until March, ‘01, at which point cheney shrugged his shoulders - ‘w’s watch. ‘w’ didn’t read his PDB’s. The badger Clarke in his ear about al qaeda, ‘w’ didn’t even hold a mtg on al qaeda until nine months in. When first approached about a DHS in the spring of ‘01, the ‘w’ admin basically laughed at the Democrats suggestion.
Not to mention that bin laden wouldn’t have wasted his 9/11 on Clinton, as he know the response would have been efficient and effective. With ‘w,’ it was common knowlege he would use the occasion to stroke both ego and wallet.
No, 9/11 fits ‘w’s girlish form much better than it does Clinton’s.
And as result, a man who lives in a cave was able to take apart the leader of the free world. With ‘w’s sheep working bin laden’s propganda war for him, 9/11 has paid off more than al qaeda could have ever imagined.
By Midori
November 28, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
TW,
Also bear in mind that Bush & Company have pretty much destroyed and gutted the Justice Department.
By DB, Gwinnettian
November 28, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Would it be particularly wimpy for me to say that, oh…
“It would be nice if we could discuss this particular event, its historical context, and future implications without scoring cheap shots at the expense of our least favorite administration.”
Would that be out of place on a comments blog? Just wondering; I’m still feelin’ the love from reading yesterday’s post/thread, is the reason I ask.
For what it’s worth, I think most of us know that a determined group of terrorists willing to die for a cause could cause horrific casualty counts. I won’t speak aloud (well, I won’t commit to it online) my one particular security-breach waiting to happen but I suspect everyone has such a hypothetical in mind.
Were we to fight this “last battle” by, say, doubling our Coast Guard, would that really accomplish anything?
(I don’t know—just putting it out there for some Deep Thoughts to follow.)
By Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
November 28, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
TW 10:15 AM
You write, “Not to mention that bin laden wouldn’t have wasted his 9/11 on Clinton, as he know the response would have been efficient and effective”; what are you smoking? Perhaps you should lay off the koolaid for a while.
Clinton’s “efficient and effective” wag-the-dog” response was to shoot a couple of camels with a $1,000,000. There are no scholars or anylists with credibility that believe that even made anything close to an “efficient and effective” response to a terror event.
As to Clark, the only source that supports your claim is Clark, himself. Absent such a claim, one must conclude (as was the case) that Clark was incompetent, so Clark’s claim is nothing more than cover for his rear. The PDB’s were reviewed at appropriate levels, the problem, if any, was content caused by the Clinton’s evisceration of the intelligence community.
Perhaps you should read the 911 commissionreport that lays the 911 attacks on intelligence community failures that had their roots in the Clinton Administration.
By AmVet
November 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
WASHINGTON — Although he admits he’ll miss perks like White House cooking and flying on Air Force One, President George W. Bush said “Frankly, I’m not going to miss the limelight all that much.”
Would it be the understatement of the millennium to say, “And we long suffering Americans will not miss you AT ALL, Mr. President”?
Go back to Texas and pretend you are something else you are not…
By Soixante huitard
November 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
President Bush has kept us safe since.
I can’t let this stand.
If president Bush has done such a fine job of keeping us safe since Sept. 11, 2001, then what was he doing before and on Sept. 11, 2001?
If the Clinton administration had done such a poor job of protecting us and Bush’s people were such geniuses, how would that event have even possible?
You obviously have a lot invested in believing in Bush’s prowess in fighting terrorism, Wyld. What’s that about, do you think?
By TW
November 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
WBH - I have read the 911 report and find it to be a joke - right down to the so-called questioning of ‘w’ and robin…or is cheney batman?
Please explain the nine months of cricket noise coming from the White House during the statr of ‘w’s occupancy? Please exlpain why, with the USS COLE in the rearview, with the CIA finally certifying bin laden, with the wires burning red over the summer, please explain why ‘w’ did nothing.
Nothing.
Isn’t it ironic how the anit-welfare rightwing is cool with the $3.2 million we’ve paid ‘w’ to do nothing.
Nothing.
By RW-(the original)
November 28, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
For what it’s worth, I think most of us know that a determined group of terrorists willing to die for a cause could cause horrific casualty counts
ragger,
Good point and I would add that as long as they are more inclined to want to die than get away with something it is impossible to stop all potential attacks and remain a free society. Finger pointing at government only emboldens them to claim more power over us.
Off to the forest. Have a great Black Friday everyone.
By Soixante huitard
November 28, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Would that be out of place on a comments blog? Just wondering; I’m still feelin’ the love from reading yesterday’s post/thread, is the reason I ask.
Nah, I’d rather be back to full-pads today, DB. It’s the day after Thanksgiving. :-)
By mike hussein smith
November 28, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
A friendly reminder: The Clinton administration was successful in catching terrorists coming into our country. In the most famous case, people crossing into the U.S. from Canada were seized and successfully prosecuted for a plot to blow up a West Coast celebration of the arrival of Y2K (remember that?). The Bushes have always tried to tar Clinton with the first WTC attack — the one that occurred a couple of weeks after GWHBush left office. And then there is the specious claim, supported by the always specious Wyld Byll, that Clinton is responsible for the 9/11 attacks — even though W. had been in office 8 months when they occurred, sufficient time to have fixed any “evisceration of the US intelligence infrastructure” that the Clintons MIGHT have left behind. But, of course, that would have required W & Co. to actually do something, instead of rushing out the door to vacation in Texas, when Clarke, the man from the Clinton administration, revealed fragments of al Qaida’s attack plan in an August 2001 assessment.
By "The Corporal"
November 28, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Jay
A couple of points from the old corporal:
1) Good intelligence is the only thing that will keep it from happening one day here in our malls, schools or places of worship.
2) Once they are identified, they need to disappear.
3) Interesting that they always include Jews as their target.
4) Citizens - be prepared to defend yourself. Even one person can make a difference and save a few lives.
5) Sadly, a lot of news media outlets are still identifying them as domestic terrorists in India. Why is it so hard to tell the truth?
By Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
November 28, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
TW
“….how the anit-welfare rightwing is cool with the $3.2 million we’ve paid ‘w’ to do nothing”?
The BDS has truly rotted your mind. Do nothing - I’ll give you one indisputable thing President Bush has done - how about fighting aids in Africa - that’s something and that’s something indisputable, by you BDS refuse to acknowledge even one small portion of the good this man has done?
When you write, “Please exlpain why, with the USS COLE in the rearview, with the CIA finally certifying bin laden, with the wires burning red over the summer, please explain why ‘w’ did nothing” I get the idea that you don’t have an executive leadership job and that, perhaps, you sit in a cubicle all day and fill in the blanks in a rote manner that doesn’t require discernment or a heirchy of decdisioning.
Taken together, your posts seem to indicate that you think that President bush received a PDB that had “Al Queada is going to fly airplanes into the WTC and Pentagon - SOON” with nothing else on the page and that President Bush did not read it.
In reality, the threat assessments include many threats, background information, and estimates of probability. While the 911 events were in threat assessments, they were never elevated to a probability, let alone a probability within a defined time. This was a failure of the intelligence community that was eviscerated by the Clinton’s. No US president, and PEOTUS when he takes office, would have locked down US air travel before 911 based on the ill defined threat identify by our weak intelligence community.
President Bush hasn’t been perfect (see Dubai ports, drug entitlement, immigration) but its awful when people refuse to acknowledge even the most universally accepted good that he has done and try, falsely, to lay 911, the current financial crisis (see Banrney F*, ineffective regulators, etc…) at his feet.
Shame on you.
By Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
November 28, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
Jay, my apologies, I shan’t use that nickname for the MA representative again. I am sorry for violating the rules.
By GodHatesTrash
November 28, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
At least 5 times a year here in the US some halfwit paranoid twit grabs his guns and sets off for the local mall, high school, clocktower, commuter train or plain old post office and mows down a bunch of people.
Welcome to modern life, boys and girls.
You can die hiding under your bed when your 300 pound wife lies down to eat her Cheetos, or you can go out and about the business of living, and take your chances.
As long as there are boatloads of guns and weapons out and about, boatloads of crazy people are going to have access to them, and some of them will use them.
By mike hussein smith
November 28, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
GREAT, TRASH: You’ve summed things up wonderfully with your sentence: You can die hiding under your bed when your 300 pound wife lies down to eat her Cheetos, or you can go out and about the business of living, and take your chances.
By Soixante huitard
November 28, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
Trash: At least 5 times a year here in the US some halfwit paranoid twit grabs his guns and sets off for the local mall, high school, clocktower, commuter train or plain old post office and mows down a bunch of people.
But sociopaths and violent paranoid schizophrenics don’t have hundreds of collaborators and don’t receive incitement and moral support from broad swaths of their culture, incl. religious institutions.
By getalife
November 28, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
I wonder if the Indian leader ignored a memo saying there is going to be an attack. Probably not but did not see it coming.
Maybe they can bribe them like we did with the Sunnis.
We will probably see more of these with an economic collapse.
By Dusty
November 28, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Wyld Byll Hyttnyr@10:54
Thank you for your honest words about President Bush. I am always thankful that we had a steady, sensible President when 9/11 hit us. His strong “hand” has kept this country going and protected even as we face demoralizing economic conditions.
We are also fortunate that President Bush has continued to have a comprehensive world view even as he is attacked by the most virulent American citizens in history. It takes a wise and well balanced man to continue to do what he sees as good for the country while he is under personal attack.
*Speaking of personal attacks and censorship * I was puzzled after reading the last two days of this blog. The censorship DOES seem selective.
It is true that Andy did not express Thanksgiving happiness that Bookman wished to extend.(I thought his thoughts were very nice.) But..is disagreement with that really grounds for censorship?
If serious disagreements are not allowed, may I ask why INSULTS to women are not removed? Chad Harris (@1:26 yesterday) called Sarah Palin a word used for female dogs. BUT NO CENSORSHIP! It seems that disagreements with Bookman are NOT ALLOWED but INSULTS TO WOMEN ARE OK.
Well, I feel a great sadness for the Indians (Mombai) and families who have once again lost loved ones to terrorism. So far I have read that one American and his 13 year old daughter were killed in a restaurant. Be thankful that we can go out to eat and have no fear of being killed by terrorists. It is a blessing I hope continues.
By TW
November 28, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
President Bush hasn’t been perfect (see Dubai ports, drug entitlement, immigration) but its awful when people refuse to acknowledge even the most universally accepted good that he has done and try, falsely, to lay 911, the current financial crisis (see Banrney F, ineffective regulators, etc…) at his feet.*
WBH - While I’m sure fighting AIDS in Africa does affect out fight against terrorism in some roundabout way, your having only this to sight as a ‘w’ success proves my point. Your need to throw BDS around clearly reveals the painful calluses about your knees that have resulted from eight years of worshipping the simple texan. It must be painful to have pledged a blind allegiance to ‘w,’ only to be left with nothing but failure. I believe in most circles they call that a…sucker?
Bless your heart. I will pray for you.
By Soixante huitard
November 28, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
Inanity of the day: I am always thankful that we had a steady, sensible President when 9/11 hit us.
If that’s what helps get you through the day, bro.
By Soixante huitard
November 28, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Man is it me or is it awfully quiet around here today? Can’t quite put my finger on it.
What could it be?
By GodHatesTrash
November 28, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
I understand what you are saying, 68.
But I would argue that the sick and the sociopaths get lots of support for their paranoid fantasies from popular American culture - i.e. hate radio, Faux, RightWingnut demagogues like Palin, racists, supremacists, and separatists, sensationalized news, fundamentalist churches with their Armaggedon doctrines - and from their interactions with their fellow paranoids and misanthropes.
I would say that compared to America’s paranoid RightWingnuttery, Islamic fanatics are a rapidly metastasizing cancer, while RightWingnuttery is more like the early stages of heart failure, a serious malaise that slowly destroys the body.
I think that one of the unfortunate by-products of Obama’s election has been the even further escalation of RightWingnut paranoia - gun sales are skyrocketing, membership in soopremacissy organizations is mushrooming, etc.. As the effects of Bush’s failed leadership of the economy spreads, expect more disenchanted desparate people to resort to violence.
Domestic home-grown terror activity from our RightWingnuts is an escalating possibility.
By Dusty
November 28, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
Dear Soixi, 11:43
If that’s what helps get you through the day, bro.
I certainly does. bro. (You may call me “Sis” if you must call. “Beauty”, “Princess”, and “Angel” are also acceptable.)
By TW
November 28, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Trash@11:50 - very, very well put.
Isn’t it ironic that those who claim model faith are the same ones consumed by fear?
What’s that they say about a hole in the ground and one’s backside?
By Soixante huitard
November 28, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
I would say that compared to America’s paranoid RightWingnuttery, Islamic fanatics are a rapidly metastasizing cancer
No doubt about it.
while RightWingnuttery is more like the early stages of heart failure, a serious malaise that slowly destroys the body.
Could be. Time will tell.
On the other hand, re: One of the unfortunate by-products of Obama’s election has been the even further escalation of RightWingnut paranoia - gun sales are skyrocketing …: this is where I think we might actually be in better shape. As I indicated in a post the other day about the spate of racist language in the aftermath of the Obama victory - I could be wrong but personally I see that as the dying twitches of a moribund ideological reaction, one that once had some limited (regional) institutional support, then went on life support, and now has finally seen the plug pulled on it.
Yes there will continue to be the individual sociopath and violent paranoid person who acts out — as we saw earlier this year at the Unitarian church in TN and as we see in the skinhead plot recently uncovered, also in TN — but it will be even less likely for there to be something with the sophistication and coordinated nature of what we are seeing for example in the Mumbai attacks.
By Dusty
November 28, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
God Hates Trash,@11:50
Your paranoia is strongly evident today. There are misfits on both political sides and both are miniscule factions. The biggest problem is in your head.
There is no evidence that disenchanted desparate people to resort to violence are prevalent ANYWHERE. YOUR namecalling is the most violent thing I have encountered. You must be hiding under your bed at the moment in fear.
Get your head screwed on right. If you are a law abding American there is little chance that SOMEONE IS AFTER YOU. You better be glad of that instead of making up a bunch of propaganda against OTHER AMERICANS.
By Soixante huitard
November 28, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
*I certainly does. bro.’
Sure thing, baby’doll. :-)
By GodHatesTrash
November 28, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
68, good points.
less likely for there to be something with the sophistication and coordinated nature of what we are seeing for example in the Mumbai attacks.
Very true. Sophistication and coordination have never been a hallmark of our RightWingnutter friends.
And certainly decent Americans were uncomfortable with the lynch-mob lily-white tone of the latter McCain- Palin rallies, and this lead to the defection of Buckley, Parker, Brooks, et. al.
Let’s face it, when you take a good look at the faces of RightWingnutters, it ain’t pretty.
By Soixante huitard
November 28, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Let’s face it, when you take a good look at the faces of RightWingnutters, it ain’t pretty.
Reminds me of the slackjaw, shotgun-wielding geezer who confronts Chevy Chase in the bedroom of the suspect in Fletch.
Not part of the human race’s brighter offspring.
By Dusty
November 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Go ahead, brainwashed libs.
Tell me again that Biden had a prettier face than Sarah Palin! Ha! Gotcha, you bunch of uglies!!!
By Greg Mendel
November 28, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
“Maybe they can bribe them like we did with the Sunnis.” — getalife
Personally, I think “renting” the Sunnis is a good description. But, I think you’re onto something here.
When John Kerry compared fighting terrorists to police work, the dittoheads went berserk. However, fighting that kind of enemy really is a matter of good police work and covert operations. Huge military operations aren’t effective against such enemies.
Add to that, as the Corporal said, good intelligence (and mental intelligence, I might add). If we had spent a tiny fraction of our Iraq debt on infiltrating al queda networks, we’d be much further along. That kind of thing takes a long time, and it takes developing operatives native to the region, and American personnel who speak Middle Eastern languages. And it takes cooperating with allies, instead of insulting them.
Invading Iraq was easier and more flashy than committing to root out terrorists where they hide among innocents. We really can’t guard every vulnerable spot and still have a free society.
By Tarzan of Africa
November 28, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Based on those comments from Dusty, I suppose one must conclude now that “Angel” and “A$$” are synonymous.
By GodHatesTrash
November 28, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
My post referred to the Palin crowds, not to her specifically, although I will submit that it will take a whole lotta Botox, plastic surgery and cochon lipstique to keep the 44 year-old Palin looking passable when she reaches VP-elect Biden’s age of 66.
They’ll probably have to pull her face up so far she’ll be needing hair plugs to keep her hairline in front of the middle of her skull.
Palin reminds me of David Duke with lipstick. And Duke was a klansman in a suit.
After all, ugly stupid incoherent hatefilled rantings from a pretty face are still ugly stupid incoherent hatefilled rantings.
By Dusty
November 28, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Tarzam@1:22
You NOT Tarzen. You B Cheetah!
God Hates Trash@ 1:36
Obviously, you have Palin mixed up with Pelosi. Pelosi is the one obviously familiar with botox, plastic surgery and cochan lipstique. Otherwise, she would resemble Henry Waxman of woe and wild wonderment. Only a mother could love such a facade as that one.
Palin doesn’t rant. She just says things you don’t want to hear…like the truth. Rants are from people like you…who even get kicked off of blogs at times. Pitiful propagandists!!
By Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
November 28, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
TW 11:39 AM
You are either totally blinded by BDS or you just don’t get my point.
First, President Bush’s African aids initiative is but one of many good things that his administration has done.
Next, President Bush’s African aids initiative is universally applauded - by PEOTUS, Africa, foreign leaders, the UN - simply put even his harshest and most virulent critics can not find something bad to say.
Taken as a whole, your inability to even write a simple “Yes he did a good job” and your insistence on claiming he is wholly bad does little more than confirm the diagnosis that you have BDS and that you are a partisan, small individual.
By GodHatesTrash
November 28, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
Nancy Pelosi is 24 years older than that lipsticked pig Palin.
LOL.
By sally g
November 29, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
Jay, Jay, Jay….Haven’t read in forever, but recently have seen that you haven’t changed much. I DO occassionally agree with you, but a column this week said it all….the one in which you stated that (paraphrasing)”this intentionally well-intended program didn’t turn out to be as it was intended.” Well, babe, that’s the glaring problem with liberal programs: sound GREAT on paper; RARELY, if ever, produce the results they intend. Don’t believe me? Do some research. It’s your job, after all. Non-liberals are NOT the enemy. We just see how these programs that you & yours tout & that sound so sweet & fuzzy only a curmudgeon could/would be against, turn into one more gigantic OOOPPPSSS!!!! A Beauro-bloat gone mad. Example? Gov’t health care. If ya really, truly want it, I invite/beg/challenge you to go for your next medical service (routine or emercency)to Grady. You want nationalized health care? We already have it. Spend 24 hrs. (ave. time in Grady…can say from experience)& you’ll quickly see waste, mismanagement, non-existent hygiene, carelessness, humiliation, brickwall after brickwall, I could go on for a month. Go, Jay, go…go to Grady for your next healthcare visit. Go. I beg you. See for yourself. (Oh, & without the cameras or media ID’s!) Yes, of course Grady is necessary. Again, as most liberal programs do, sounds great on paper. In actuality? A hot mess that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. And, trying very hard not to act ugly, & certainly not & never would wish medical problems on you or any of yours, I DO wish that at least one good time one of you libbies would actually have to experience in real life & real time what happens when governmental/socialistic policies are put into place. It ain’t pretty, Jay. Hopefully you’ll never have to experience it. But if we get national health care, I’ll not be able to contain myself from sitting back & secretly giggling, as I say “Hey…you wanted it…you got it.” Again, non of this is said in animosity. Just a “snap out of it” state of mind. Have a healthy day & God forbid you ever have to have surgery at Grady!