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DEL.ICIO.USThe tape, the LA Times and John McCain
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
John McCain and some of his supporters are trying to make a big deal of the fact that the Los Angeles Times is refusing to release a tape of a private going-away party for a Palestinian college professor in 2003 that was attended by Barack Obama. In April, The Times used the tape to write a story about Obama’s remarks at the event.
According to the story, Obama recounted a series of dinners and conversations with Khalidi and his wife Mona over the years, conversations that had been “consistent reminders to me of my own blind spots and my own biases… . It’s for that reason that I’m hoping that, for many years to come, we continue that conversation — a conversation that is necessary not just around Mona and Rashid’s dinner table,” but around “this entire world.”
The McCain camp apparently believes the tape may contain evidence of far more nefarious comments or activities. Or at least it wants others to believe that. As long as the tape remains private, the McCain camp is free to imagine all sorts of things about its content, including the possibility that Bill Ayers may have been in attendance. In the final, dwindling days of the 2008 presidential campaign, perhaps one of the most important in our history, this is what they would rather talk about than the economy, our overstretched military or energy policy.
In fact, McCain claims that the Times’ refusal to release the tape is firm evidence of media bias against him and in favor of Obama. He knows better.
According to Times reporter Peter Wallsten, he was given access to the tape and permission to write about its contents only on condition that the tape not be released to the public. While you can debate whether the Times should have agreed to those conditions, it did so and is now bound by that promise.
However, if the Times had refused the deal, it risked not getting access to the tape at all, and as a result nobody would know about it today. Furthermore, the source who provided the tape probably has very honest reasons for keeping it private. The party was private; other people at the party had no reason to believe they were at a public event. The only part of what happened there that has public import are the statements by a man who later became a presidential candidate, and those statements are now on record.
In the end, for reporter Wallsten and the Times, it comes down to keeping your word. And while Fox News, in its own obsessive way, is trying to make this a big story, its own deputy managing editor disagrees publicly. Bill Sammon is a newspaper guy by training, and it shows in his statement:
“To me, it’s pretty simple. Reporter Peter Wallsten made an agreement with a source to refrain from publicly disclosing the tape. Unless that source lets Wallsten off the hook, the reporter is journalistically bound to abide by the agreement, regardless of how much heat his newspaper takes from pundits on TV.
“Indeed, Wallsten has little choice in the matter. If he were to cave in to mounting public demands for the tape, no self-respecting source would ever give him another shred of information. Nor should they.”
In his own life, John McCain has put a lot of emphasis on personal and professional honor, citing it as a central part of his being. He ought to recognize that others can be motivated by personal and professional honor as well. His refusal to do so — a refusal based purely on hopes of personal gain — does not speak well of him.
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Comments
By Mrs. Godzilla
October 30, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
BRAVO JAY
By ByteMe
October 30, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
At one point in the tape, off in the far right corner, you can just make out the image of someone who has long since disappeared and who doesn’t want to be found: Jimmy Hoffa.
Ok, that’s my creative delusion about the tape. Yours?
By The Truth is Out There
October 30, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Jay,
Don’t let this out but the word on the street is that Obama got drunk at that party and started singing Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Iran just right out of the blue and people at the party were just aghast and so struck by the display that they just had a mental block, until now — now that the tape has surfaced and caused those repressed memories to resurface. It’s just horrible. The most important thing to do though is to keep it under wraps. If The Corporal ever catches wind of this, well, I’m sure you understand.
By TN Gelding
October 30, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
By Midori
October 30, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Byte Me,
Also on the tape:
several mysterious puffs of black and white smoke that mysteriously resemble Barak Obama hovering just over the grassy knoll.
By Greg
October 30, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
They should release the tape.
The free flow of information is crucial to a democracy, especially during an election year.
Yes, partisans will bat the tape about. But we still have the right to have access to it.
This is a candidate for the highest office in the land. The liberal thing to do is to make information free and available to all. Let us sort it out.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
If you can’t stand the heat then give up the tape.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Fox:
As the candidates make their closing arguments before the election, the race has tightened with Barack Obama now leading John McCain by 47 percent to 44 percent among likely voters, according to a FOX News poll released Thursday. Last week Obama led by 49-40 percent among likely voters.
bwa
By Danny the red
October 30, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
*They should release the tape.
The free flow of information is crucial to a democracy, especially during an election year.*
But you missed the part in Jay’s column where he points out that were it not for the agreement with the source not to publish the tape we would not even be talking about it right now.
In other words, trust between journalists and their sources is the precondition of that very information that you rightly claim is essential in a democracy.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Thee Oblahmi Infomercial didn’t go over so well:
“I feel depressed right now,” added Sullivan, an Englishman famous for his infomercials touting the Swivel Sweeper and Smart Chopper.
“I think it needed it. I was about to throw myself through a window because it was depressing,” Sullivan said.
He joked the producer “needs a spanking” for lacking optimism.—NY Post
There is no optimism in liberalism.
By Lord Help Us
October 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Seriously…the tape contains a clip of Obama leading a chant of ‘death to israel’ and praising the ‘martyrs and their dedication to the eradication of the zionist occupiers.’
It ends with a warm embrace between Michelle and Yasser Arafats wife that goes on a little too long ( if you know what I mean…)
Seriously…
By TW
October 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Has the McCain team posted an address where we can send the Kleenex?
Someplace in Arizona?
By Danny the red
October 30, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
…Barack Obama now leading John McCain by 47 percent to 44 percent among likely voters
My friend, we have an electoral college.
By "The Corporal"
October 30, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Well now, we have all of these accusations against Obama and McCain. This can be cleared up very easily.
JUST RELEASE THE TAPE.
And if there are any involving McCain, release them too!
P.S.
How come Obama’s Aunt is living in a slum flat in Boston and his brother is living in a hut in Kenya. I thought Obama cared for people??
By Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
October 30, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Why doesn’t Obama just say, “Release the tape.” That way everyone will see the harmless nature of his person alliances and interactions with sponsors of terror and unrepentant terroristsl.This guy Jay describes as, ” …a Palestinian college professor…” is actually a monster who has worked on behalf of the jehadi and advocates the destruction of Irael and the genocide of jews. One of my earliest memories is of my father telling me to hang around the good kids at school as my friends would shape my ideas and behaviours. Let’s look at O’s friends, Ayres, Wright, Mansour, Kahledi, Jesse jackson, the black Hawaiian communist poet, and on and on - you don’t think they shaped his ideas.
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Bwa
By jojojo
October 30, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
They won’t allow the tape to be released because George W. Bush and Laura were in attendance at the event as well.
By TN Gelding
October 30, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Not good news for McCain.
By ByteMe
October 30, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Flawed FOX poll, as usual, AJC/DNC:
Democrat LV n=379, ±5; Republican LV n=364, ±5; independent LV n=146, ±8
Just as many Democrats as Republicans in the poll, which is not even close to true in the real world where people vote and Democrats outnumber Republicans by about 10%. Also doesn’t have a breakdown by age, so they likely are under-represented by the 18-30 year olds who only have cell phones and are more liberal overall.
But you keep pushing your cherry-picked data points.
By "The Corporal"
October 30, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
For over two hundred years we have managed as a Republic to keep ourselves free from the various bondages of Europe. Now, just five days before a presidential election, we are on the verge of embracing their cancerous socialism.
By Citizen of the World
October 30, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
I’m trying to decide whether McCain’s campaign strategy can be best summed up by the phrase “Much ado about nothing” or “Beating a dead horse.”
By getalife
October 30, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
The whitey tape, the Khalidi tape are desperate measures to try to give hope to the gop.
By Victoria Thomson
October 30, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
If there is nothing damaging on the tape then why not release it?? Something is not right here???
By Abomi Nation
October 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Speaking of omens:
The top rated network programs last night were
1 NBC “Barack Obama Campaign Ad” 2 CBS “Barack Obama Campaign Ad” 3 Fox “Barack Obama Campaign Ad” 4 ABC “Pushing Daisies”Lol! “Pushing Daisies!” Was that the McCain rebuttal?
Not something I’d like to see if I were McCain’s age, Barack Obama Ad, Barack Obama Ad, Barack Obama Ad, “Pushing Daisies”….
Not Nice ABC. At least ABC didn’t show the movie “Dead Man Walking”
By RealityKing
October 30, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
Of course, history now shows that it goes beyond partical reasonings to link any “journalistically bound” duties to LA Times “columnists”.
And besides, what self-described unbiased journalist would ever agree to withhold a tape while agreeing to report on it? Hear say at best.. What purpose would that serve any objective observer??
By TN Gelding
October 30, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
“The Corporal”
October 30, 2008 1:44 PM
Glad to see you made it.
I’ve been trying to alert you.
Good news for McCain.
By reebok
October 30, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
The facts are nearly as much fun as the rumors. The facts are boring.
By Midori
October 30, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
well, Corporal — could be the same reason Cindy McCain’s sister was cut out of the family fortune and has to fend for herself
I thought McCain cared about his people?
Is this relevant, tho?
Maybe Obama’s aunt and brother have their own lives to live, much like Cindy’s sister?
Ever thought of that?
Silly me — how can one think without a brain??
What’s your next Fox/Hannity/Rush talking point going to be? Or do we have to wait until after 3 p.m.?
By ByteMe
October 30, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
On another part of the tape, you can make out a pauchy 60-something with a big chin and dyed black hair. You know you’ve seen him somewhere before, but you aren’t sure where. Then he looks straight at the camera for a moment and you think you know who it is. And then he silently mouths:
“You ain’t nothin’ but a hound dog.”
By The Truth is Out There
October 30, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Well, since someone has already released the key parts of the story, we may as well get it over with. It was the Corporal in the repository with the gun.
By Richard Shapiro
October 30, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
OK, Then just release the tapes!!!! What is the big deal if their is nothing incriminating on them?
By RealityKing
October 30, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Nixon had a tape, he didn’t want to release it either. Said it wasn’t important.., everybody knew what was on it anyway.
By "The Corporal"
October 30, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
To TN Gelding
I’ve seen that one before.
“For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.”“
By Mulvaney
October 30, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
This is the same Khalidi that received over $500,000 from John McCain in grants from the International Republican Institute. Now I have to conclude that either MCCAIN FUNDS TERRORISTS, which is far more dangerous than any associations that Obama might have, or that he is once again using desperate tricks so that will not remember that McCain’s policies helped get us into this economic mess.
By TN Gelding
October 30, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
“The Corporal”
October 30, 2008 1:51 PM
The EU has been eating Mr. Duhbya for lunch for two years.
By RealityKing
October 30, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Protecting the source’s identity is a journalistic duty. Protecting the median on which the news is transmitted is biasedly covering the news by controling the median. Not covered under the 1st..
By Mrs. Godzilla
October 30, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Corporal in the suppository with a gun?
EEEK!
By "The Corporal"
October 30, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
RATHER SPLENDID, I’D SAY….. Brits Have A Way With Words
‘You have to pinch yourself - a Marxist radical who all his life has been mentored by, sat at the feet of, worshiped with, befriended, endorsed the philosophy of, funded, and been in turn funded, politically promoted and supported by a nexus comprising black power, anti-white racists, Jew-haters, revolutionary Marxists, unrepentant former terrorists and Chicago mobsters, is on the verge of becoming President of the United States. And apparently it’s considered impolite to say so.’
By Midori
October 30, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Mrs. G,
as it is quite obvious that he likes to shoot himself in the foot, I suggest we all steer way clear of him.
By Copyleft
October 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
I see McCain is still sticking to the tactic that’s failed him throughout this whole campaign: try to win by attacking Obama, rather than promote his own platform.
Still isn’t working, either. America doesn’t seem to love a crybaby. Too bad, Johnn!
By TN Gelding
October 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
The Corporal”
October 30, 2008 2:01 PM
Yeah, it must ahve been around for a while.
But I still say it wasn’t his fight.
By Craig Poropat
October 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
It is real scary that the Los Angeles Times, which is owned by the Chicago Times, will not produce the video. I am certain that if that same video had the police doing something wrong, promise or know promise that tape would be everywhere inclusive of utube. We can’t trust the press, we can’t trust congress, you can’t trust the courts, can’t trust wall street and from the press’s perspective you can’t trust the president!! Who do we trust?? OBAMA??!!
By AmVet
October 30, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
The concentration of wealth and its political power in this country has reached stunning intensities. For every dollar that a corporate employee makes, the CEO makes $416!
In 1940 it was $14 and as recently as 1960 it was $42.
Instead of farming out hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of American jobs to cheap markets like India and China, I say we simply hire CEOs from there and replace these robber barons. They would work for pennies on the dollar and probably do a much better job to boot. And the American worker, the most productive in the world, would not be held hostage to plutocrats and corporate thieves and swindlers.
Today the financial wealth of the top 1 percent of households exceeds the combined wealth of the bottom 95 percent of American households.
It is time to end this “capitalism without rules” that is leading to the corporate destruction of the Republic.
The only distinction between the Republicans and Democrats is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when big corporations knock on the door. ~Ralph Nader
Nader/Gonzalez 08
By "The Corporal"
October 30, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
To Mrs. G.
Yes, we do have the guns …….
By Bosch
October 30, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
You wingnuts crack me up. Outraged over a tape that MIGHT show something while the crickets chirp when faced with the fact that McCain actually gave this guy money.
And you wonder why you’re losing.
By Dusty
October 30, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Oh the questions!! THE QUESTIONS!
Why is Obama at a friendly dinner with a PLO “big wheel” Israel-hater passing out compliments and hugs???
Why would LA Times write up something they could not back up later?
Why does Obama have so many former associates that not only does he NOT want to mention, he doesn’t want any pictures shown either?
Why does Bookman hear about these things that are not seen in the news and bring them up? Is he getting ready ahead of time for another OBAMA BOO BOO? I have read about this tape only a couple of times by a blogger.
I’ll say one thing. Obama must be the best speaker in the world to make so many people forget what a tawdry record he has. It is truly amazing. Either stupidity abounds or Obama is the Magic Magician of Mayhem. I cannot decide whether Democrats want us to be another Venezuela or another Zimbabwe. That seems to be the choice with Obama.
By TW
October 30, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
“The Grunt” - Melanie Philips also said if she were an American she would have pushed to abolish term limits so that ‘w’ could have run again.
More recently she finger painted her kitchen with the contents of her diaper.
Congratulations - you found a source that makes FOX look credible.
By getalife
October 30, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
Ah, the lizards at the lgf have latched onto this and harassing the LA Times.
It reeks of Miller protecting her source at the other Times.
By E
October 30, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
At this point, who cares?
McSenior Moment apparently forgot that he gave Khalidi $500,000 so he could, what, go on a shopping spree at Neimans?
The Hypocrite Express is on the roll.
Damn those pesky Internets making fact-checking easy!
Move along. There’s nothing here to see.
Obama/Biden ‘08
By The Truth is Out There
October 30, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Watch out, Mrs. G.,
The Corporal might try to shoot his way out. It could get messy.
By Bosch
October 30, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
You know what I want to see a tape of?
McCain’s face when he called out for Joe the Plumber today at a rally, and Joe didn’t bother to show up. McCain’s people forgot to call Joe’s publicist to confirm.
By Richard Shapiro
October 30, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
OK, Release the tapes!!!!! What is the big deal?? If there is nothing incriminating on them then let the public see them. We have the right to see them. Especially now before the election.
By Billary
October 30, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Jay,
Please inform us of which “promises” should be kept and which ones should be broken. By your rationale, the Times “agreed to those conditions and is now bound by that promise.”
How about Obama agreeing to or promising not to accept public money for his campaign? Should he not be bound by that promise? I guess since he pulled one over on those old Republicans, it’s ok. Get ready for plenty of other “promises” by Obama to not be kept.
By Karen
October 30, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
The tape is irrelevant, unless sitting in the audience or attending an event means you automatically agree 100% with everything another guest says or does. Or that not speaking out against another person’s unacceptable views equals the same thing.
It’s like saying, “You watched the Godfather, so you must be a Mafia sympathizer.”
By TN Gelding
October 30, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
Bosch
October 30, 2008 2:24 PM
Or maybe they forgot to send the limo.
He might be holding out for a shopping spree on the RNC.
By Bosch
October 30, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
Oh wait, nevermind here it the tape:
McCain can’t find Joe the Plumber
He seriously is taking this guy around with him on the campaign trail - with this guy spewing his ignorance.
But now, Joe the Plumber has left him to pursue his own career.
Good grief.
By Richard Shapiro
October 30, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
OK , Lets see them!!!!!! If there is nothing incriminating on them what is the big deal????
By professional skeptic
October 30, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
Corporal, forget the upcoming election for a moment.
Our nation embraced socialism when we injected hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money into the big banks. The money was supposedly meant to jumpstart the lending engine, but instead of lending, the banks are hoarding that cash and/or planning to use it to fund acquisitions and billiosn of dollars of fat year-end bonuses. AIG alone is rapidly blowing through $123 billion in taxpayer funded assistance, with little by the way of transparency on how the money is being spent.
However you want to slice it — nationalization, bailouts, corporate welfare — socialism is already alive and well. The wealth of the taxpayers is systematically being transferred to these financial institutions, right before our eyes.
By Lord Help Us
October 30, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Um, Richard…It is the LA Times that supposedly has this video, not the AJC.
Please go annoy them instead…
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
*How about Obama agreeing to or promising not to accept public money for his campaign? Should he not be bound by that promise? *
Sorry, Billary, try again.
These are two completely different kinds of ‘promises’.
In one case it’s a promise on which journalism is based. WIthout them - without protection for sources - journalism and the ability to get information in a democracy would potentially grind to a halt.
In the case of Obama’s campaign financing promise that was one of those ‘gentlemen’s agreements’, taken on a spit and a shake. Sorry to say, but all’s fair in love and war, and presidential campaigning is definitely a form of war. True, it might reflect better on Obama had he been willing to forego advantages in the name of keeping that promise, but given all that’s at stake, I can understand his decision.
By Mulvaney
October 30, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
This is the same Khalid that received over $500,000 from John McCain in grants from the International Republican Institute. Now I have to conclude that either MCCAIN FUNDS TERRORISTS, which is far more dangerous than any associations that Obama might have, or that he is once again using desperate tricks so that will not remember that McCain’s policies helped get us into this economic mess.
By SV
October 30, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
McCain’s huge money grants to Khalidi are all over MSNBC.
What a joke.
Does the GOP or RNC ever fact check? EVER?
And somebody better tell Palin that all her gushing about Obama and another “terrrerryst” is somebody McCain embraced with big, big bucks.
Freakin’ idiots.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
I don’t see why this is an issue in the first place. Since when is it inappropriate to criticize Israel? When McCain says “Country First”, which country does he mean—the U.S. or Israel?
By TN Gelding
October 30, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Who would have thunk it?
Republicans complaining because Obama refused public financing of his campaign and choosing to raise it through his own efforts.
I know, I know, it’s because he lied. Be glad he changed his mind. That’s more you can have to waste in Iraq.
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Let us see the tapes What’s the big deal?”
Richard, seriously. You should read the facts of the case before posting.
There are principles involved here, Richard.
Principles. And rules.
By Billary
October 30, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
Soixante, If you really think that so called journalism these days is so sacred and everyone is held to such high integrity, please explain the MSM being in the tank for Obama from day one! Even Luckovich was killing Hillary in the primary. Something he had never done. The bias is so blatant no can deny. So, don’t tell me that this one instance would somehow bring down everything journalism “should be” based on.
By FM1234
October 30, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
It’s funny how “Journalists” are so big on the “public’s right to know” when it comes to blowing the lid of f national security secrets but when it’s a video that might prove embarrassing to their latest crush it’s suddenly all about journalistic ethics. What HORSESH!T.
By AmVet
October 30, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
skeptic, right you are.
One item I left out in my earlier post - American corporations actually receive subsidies to move jobs overseas!
This supposed bailout is a total farce - it’s provisions are essentially unenforceable and it has no real legislation to prevent this from happening again. And again. And again.
Mark my words, Ford and GM are going to be the next of many big businesses to look for a “bailout”.
George W. Bush and the Congressional Democrats (and many Republicans as well) had a closed door deal to ensure that very little changes.
Will there be more power for shareholders, and the owners of mutual funds and worker pension funds to control the companies they own?
NO.
Will we even have adequate representation on the corporate boards of directors.
NOT HARDLY.
Will there be WIDESPREAD criminal prosecution of these corporate crooks and their cover ups, conflicts of interest and the deceptive practices of selling this phony paper?
OF COURSE NOT.
Will they pay for their own bailout instead of you and me. (Though they could and should).
NO WAY.
So feel good about yourselves and vote for more of the same small minded Dem/Rep “leadership” that is never going to TRULY help the middle class in favor of their monied cronies and paymasters.
I refuse…
By LW
October 30, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
Oh come on! Even Fox News doesn’t REALLY want the video to be released. It’s more valuable if the public doesn’t get to see it, because it probably doesn’t show anything truly damaging to Obama. As long as the LA Times honors its promise and keeps it under wraps, Fox and McCain can use inuendo to imply that Obama attended the BIRTHDAY PARTY in a turban and shouted, “DEATH TO ISRAEL!,” which of course, he didn’t.
In the meantime, you don’t see Fox covering the story about the ‘64 car crash that then-Lieutenant McCain was involved in, and maybe caused the death of another person, and which was covered up by the Navy, which still refuses to release the records to the news media (His dad was a bigshot admiral at the time). What about that?
If they (Fox) are so interested in the “moral character” of the candidates, why haven’t we seen more coverage about McCain’s drunken violent binges in the Navy and the Academy—Why no stories on the fact that he had an affair with his first wife while she was still married to another man, broke up her marriage to marry her, then dumped her for Cindy (20 years his junior) after his first wife faithfully waited for his return from being a POW?
Why no stories about the five (million-dollar) airplanes he crashed through wrecklessness or the fact that he deliberately disobeyed orders leading to his crash and capture in North Vietnam?
Why no stories about his close friendship to convicted Watergate felon G. Gordon Liddy, who advises his radio listeners as to the best methods of shooting ATF agents, should they come to your front door?
Why doesn’t McCain release his medical records for EVERYONE to read?
And yet they’ll milk this non-story for everything they can.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
AmVet 2:14
[[The only distinction between the Republicans and Democrats is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when big corporations knock on the door. ~Ralph Nader]]
LOL! Have you ever thought of changing your nom de plume? I must advise you, Don Quixote de la Mancha is taken, but Sancho is available.
Nader strikes me as this kind of person:
‘“Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud.” Sophocles
“The shortest and surest way to live with honor in the world is to be in reality what we would appear to be…” Socrates
By Steve
October 30, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Its just more proof Obama isnt pro Israel and really is unqualified to lead this country. Liberals just drink the kool-aid and carry onlike its all unimportant.The tape will surface trust me and then Obama will have something to worry about.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
I’ve got a copy of the tape…
this is it!!!
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Billary, I don’t know that I’d go so far as to say that journalism is ‘sacred’. I’m just saying that without it, we’re probably worse off for not having a medium — however problematic and imperfect it may be — for reflecting what is happening in our world. The fact that it is flawed is irrelevant. Without any way to regulate what happens when people volunteer information to news outlets, that process would grind to a halt.
What are you saying about Hillary and Luckovich? That he was made to hew to a party ilne set by a pro-Obama editorial staff?
I would read that differently. You’re right there was a striking harshness among the (so-called ‘liberal’) media towards the Clintons during the pimary. Take Rich and Down at the NY Times, for ex., who were devastating.
My point? So much for the theory of a ‘liberal’ media.
So then, how to explain their anti-Hillary position, which was undeniable?
I think journalists do, as you imply, have an inflated sense of the integrity of their profession and certain politicians, such as the Clintons, run afoul of that by tending to become self-absorbed, narcissistic, and hypocritical. If you ask me, this is what was invoved in that case, not some supposed pro-Obama bias.
By mm
October 30, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
The McCain campaign has not only been the nastiest in history, it has been the biggest joke. They continually try to pounce on any statement, any person, any rumor. They never fact check anything. They embarass themselves on a daily basis. Everything they have done has backfired.
Yet we have these boneheaded supporters continuing to support this pathetic man and his sidekick Mutley.
All McCain supporters should be deported. They care more about what’s going on in other countries than their own. We’ll need to adopt their children because they don’t care that they have saddled them with debt for the rest of their lives.
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Steve: “The tape will surface trust me and then Obama will have something to worry about.
Five days and ticking buddy, five days. Better get to work.
By Billary
October 30, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Soixante,
Why do you think there was a “striking harshness” among the liberal media towards the Clintons? Because they were no longer their chosen one! Do you think for one moment that Obama could have taken down the Clinton machine with out the support of the the liberal media? Not a chance!
He is the most liberal of all in Washington today, that is confirmed by his record. That my friend is exactly why they jumped on board right away. They believe he will push a very liberal agenda which they support. The liberals have shown that they will eat their own. Hillary was not far enough left anymore. Now that’s scary.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
LW 2:52
Why not? Because many of us hope this election marks the death of the socialvaluesfarrightneoconmoralityplay as a qualification for office we’ve endured the past few years.
If you want a saint, go to church. Personally, I rather look forward to a President who embodies what Krauthammer wrote about Obama, altho I do not think he meant it as a compliment:
“that does not make these associations irrelevant. They tell us…important things about Obama.
First, his cynicism and ruthlessness. He found these men useful, and use them he did. “
Just the traits we need in a President - someone who is willing to use other leaders to advance American interests.
By "The Corporal"
October 30, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
To Professional skeptic
A lot of truth in what you say so let’s not make it worse by electing private Obama.
To TN Gelding
Many in WWII felt it was not their fight either. Do you know what the draft rate was for WWII? Close to 67%. In Vietnam it was only 25% at its highest.
To Many of the rest of you
The old adage applies …….. kept by better men than yourself.
By PinkoNeoConLibertarian
October 30, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Paul @ 2:39…Absolutely!
By Tell It Like It Is
October 30, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Let the people speak by their vote. I have already voted for OBama because I believe that he will be more responsive to middle class America. If I were wealthy and made more than $200,000 per year, I would still vote for Obama as a 3% increase in taxes would not hurt if it helped reduce the burden on people making less money.
The big businesses are making a killing on cheap labor. Increased taxes are needed to reduce the debt and improve our economy by putting people back to work. I would rather tax ourselves instead of borrowing from China.Why not tax the greedy b*******? Anyone who has ever worked for a big business knows that this 3% will go into the ownwers pocket and not to expanding the business. The Wall Street fiasco demonstrates this. Labor is 50% of operating cost(salary and fringe benefits). Labor costs have been decreased by out sourcing to other countries with cheap labor. I had trouble with my Internet access and I spoke with someone in India that I could not understand nor solve my problem.I solved the problem myself with some good old American ingenuity.
Forget foreign policy. If there is no economic order at home, then we cannot afford to police the world. Bring the $10 billion being wasted monthly in Iraq back home and create jobs to improve our infrastructure that is in shambles.
Wake up people and do not let fear of a black man in power fog your common sense. We do have checks and balances to protect us although it did not work with Bush.Change is needed.
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
*The McCain campaign has not only been the nastiest in history, it has been the biggest joke. *
Well said, mm.
I think the McCain campaign will be a textbook cautionary tale for generations and will be seen as having managed to combine maximum nastiness and dishonor with maximum ineptitude.
By AmVet
October 30, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
I will keep tilting at those windmills, my friend, as long as I draw breath, and I see an America that is in such dire straights.
Both of your quotes are great.
I am only asking for economic justice and civil freedom, which as Cicero noted is “participation in power”.
I believe that my views are about 20 years ahead of their time.
It will probably take that much more cr@p before rank and file Americans say, “ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! NO MORE!”
This is OUR country. We want it back.
And once again we will mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
By RealityKing
October 30, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
We already know whats on the tape.
A drunken Obama gleefully toasting domestic and internalional terroists alike, another self-absorbed liberal pipe dream from his father…
By Ima Marxist
October 30, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
I am a Marxist, just like the AJC, and pal around with Hamas, the terrorist group which has endorsed Obama, the Marxist.
How nice for the AJC editors to be on same page as Hamas, the terrorist group!!!
By Dusty
October 30, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Don’t worry about the tape. If Democrats have ignored Obama’s KNOWN record so far, then a tape at a going away party, even for a terrorist supporter, will not faze them. Who cares about Obama’s record? Not Democrats. HE MAKES A GREAT SPEECH and can draw a better crowd than Elvis!! Go Barry and get a guitar. They will love that too along with the giveaways.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
mm - Soixant huitard
[[The McCain campaign has not only been the nastiest in history]]
You may want to read some American election history. The McCain campaign, even the 527s, have been remarkably civil compared to some 18th and 19th century campaigns.
AmVet
A Second American Revolution? Interesting. But those with power rarely surrender it willingly.
BTW - the Paul at 2:39 is not me. I own the other Paul posts.
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Hey what’s wrong with being a Marxist, Ima Marxist?
You say it like it’s something to be ashamed of, like being a fascist?
By Al Qaeda
October 30, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Nice to meet you, Marxist! We support John McCain, of course, and we’re grateful for his half-million contribution to Khalidi. All Obama did was go to a dinner with him, what a piker.
REAL terrorists know that Republicans are our best recruitment tool, and the America’s Christian Right are just our U.S. branch.
By Swami Dave
October 30, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
Jay:
I notice that you basically overlook the central point to McCain’s contention in raising this issue that it evidences a basic “mainstream media” bias in favor or Senator Obama & against Senator McCain.
Noone with a shred of objective credibility would attempt to dispute that if the roles were reversed & it were a tape showing Senator McCain at some private function making toasts saluting some kook or leader of a hate group, this tape would have been released immediately. The outlet breaking the story would have been hailed as supporting the public’s right to know in the face of their decision to break a confidentiality promise. If the outlet were an organization like FOX News and they simply reported their own account of the details & then refused to release it (at a minimum) for verification, they would have been crucified.
With even a shred of honesty, you know this as well as I.
Lest we get confused about “journalistic integrity” among members of the “mainstream” (liberal) media, it was another of these organizations (CBS News) whose anchor ran a fraudlent hit piece against George W Bush a couple of days prior to the 2004 election based completely on fabricated (and, later found), unsubstantiated information.
So no, there is little to no reason for Americans to trust the press when they have largely been serving as an unpaid advertising wing of the liberal agenda for years.
At best, they should get released from the confidentiality promise, and at bare minimum, the tape & its content should be verified by a more objective organization than the LA Times.
…and for your other liberal friends, I will forward all calls for information on car wrecks to your good Senator Edward Kennedy. I’m sure that his staffer, Mary Jo, will help you do any research that you need!
-Swami Dave
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Billary: Because they were no longer their chosen one!
“Chosen one”?
What the heck are you talking about?
There is no Chosen one.
Do you believe in tooth fairies too?
And by the way, there’s no such thing as a liberal media.
That’s a myth, my friend.
But maybe you’re just the type who needs to believe there’s something behind the curtain.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
AmVet 3:07
I’m listening to Les Miserables, 10th Anniversary Edition, as I sit here working and joining in. French Revolution, sacrifice for a greater cause, honor - seems to fit right in.
By Billary
October 30, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
C’mon Soixante, when your argument loses steam you don’t have to resort to name calling like so many other liberals. You had been pretty civil up to that point. Excuse me for not saying “She was no longer their chosen one”. But, you knew that already.
The liberal media does exist, the Unicorn is a myth. But, ACORN may have registered one to vote.
By Mrs. Godzilla
October 30, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
Billary:
Would you please call Morning Joe and tell him he’s supposed to be in the tank for Obama?
I think the memo missed him.
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Swami, let’s lay off the Hannity talking points. We’re trying to have a decent discussion here.
Don’t you know the LA Times is owned by the conservative-leaning Tribune company?
Didn’t you know that, big guy?
By getalife
October 30, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
“Obama: I’ll Bring Back Clinton’s Economic Plan.”
Ah, the so called socialism.
Like Biden told Dodd, “this guy is good”.
By mm
October 30, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Paul,
Before radio, I don’t think their campaign messages traveled very far. Campaigning by train got the message out. Plus, articles in newspapers could be edited and nobody would know. Far cry from today’s world of instant information.
By hillbilly ragger
October 30, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Billary @ 2.28, find me the “promise” that McCain keeps whining about.
Bet you can’t.
By RealityKing
October 30, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Two things are being made perfectly clear about the release of this tape…
1) The MSM has transended media biased and is now acting as campaign subsidiaries, opening putting their candidates agenda above the public’s right to know.
2) The LA Times does not want to put the videotape out because it would then be comparable to the publized report. Which would once again show the accuracy and fairness, or lack there of, behind the LA Times public reporting.
By Independent
October 30, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Nobody seemed to notice the GOP waited six months to raise the issue about the tape. If they really believed it was so important, they would not have waited. It was a very smart tactic, and they know full well that releasing the tape would only help Obama. This tactic allows us to imagine the worst.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
mm
I was speaking of the tone, the vicious attacks, the real in the gutter mudslinging. Even 18th century the newspapers, pamphlets and flyers were widely circulated.
It’s a pity, but as pundit after pundit notes, “negative works.”
I’m disgusted with how both campaigns claim to be running things generally decently (ignoring all the lies exposed in FactCheck) but groups who support them operate in the sewer. In that regard, there’s little to distinguish the two campaigns.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
This isn’t me-
By AJC/DNC Management October 30, 2008 2:54 PM |I’ve got a copy of the tape… this is it!!!
And I scanned that link and it came up has having a trojan virus embedded in it.
Isn’t it just like some scumbag liberal to ruin your computer?
By Midori
October 30, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
what’s wrong Andy - - someone got into your porn stash?
By AmVet
October 30, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
My two cents, IF there was the vast liberal media conspiracy they would be actually doing what they are supposed to be doing - exposing the vast number of corporate crooks and swindlers who are busy trying to destroy our capitalist democracy.
WHAT???
They’re owned by those corporations?
Oh, I see…
So as a “plum”, General Electric, News Corp., AOL/Time Warner, Viacom, Walt Disney, Liberty Media Corp, Sony, Bertlesmann and Vivendi let them poke a stick in the eye of the government as long as they don’t do anything more. Or anything truly important.
And while these players come and go, they dominate the media and constantly exert a corrosive effect on journalism, undermining debate in this country precisely when we need it the most.
Ask ANY third party candidate who cannot get any coverage whatsoever.
So, the reality is that George W. Bush, just like every president before him, has gotten a free pass from the media.
He should be skewered alive (figuratively) but is not.
BTW, why isn’t is that WE who own the public airways, don’t control them? Are they not our public asset?
The government via the Radio Act of 1927 was given the power to grant and deny licenses, effectively squashing competition and allowing the remaining tenants (evolved to the list above) to pay NO rent to US, the American people - the landlords.
Before that, Commerce Secretary Herbert Hoover (yes THAT Hoover) powers were limited. In particular, he was not allowed to deny broadcasting licenses to anyone who wanted one.
By hottopics
October 30, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
We live in a Country where the Politicians (McCain Included) lied to get our Men and Women into a war that we had no business being in- and you people are worried about a tape. The LA Times did a 2 page article on this in April. Are you people kidding?
By Mrs. Godzilla
October 30, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
The ultimate in Republican personal responsibility….IT’S THE MEDIA’S FAULT
Geez.
By Billary
October 30, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly Ragger,
Here you go:
http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2008/06/obama-mccain-pu.html
By hottopics
October 30, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
We live in a Country where the Politicians (McCain Included) lied to get our Men and Women into a war that we had no business being in- and you people are worried about a tape. The LA Times did a 2 page article on this in April. Are you people kidding?
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Independent’s got it right.
I said so.
And mm’s on the right track (“Before radio, I don’t think their campaign messages traveled very far.”)
This viciousness of 18th C landed gentry aristocrats calling each other’s wives w******* doesn’t quite count. Sorry.
No comparison to campaign (mis-/dis-)information under conditions of true democracy (truly universal suffrage, etc.) and under conditions of mass media, which didn’t exist in 18th C.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
hottopics
If you’ve been around here long you’d know many have been quite exercised with how we got into Iraq and what it revealed about our government and the ineffectiveness of our various intelligence agencies. But that was years ago. The drawdown has begun.
Regardless of who wins, it’ll continue (although both candidates want to pour them into Afg and the Dem ticket seems much more willing than the Rep ticket to send them on invasions about the earth where we have to “do something” because “people are hurting.”
So no, not many here seem still hyper over circumstances of how we got into Iraq as a reason to not examine current controversies.
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Isn’t it just like some scumbag liberal to ruin your computer?
Nah. That’s nothing.
What would be a real trick? To shut you up.
No that would be a dream to end all hacker wet dreams.
By Midori
October 30, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
What would be a real trick? To shut you up.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ain’t that the truth!!!
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
ANJCD Manglement, I absure and abhor ad hominem attacks of any sort under any circumstances.
But man, you are a nasty piece of work.
By Mrs. Godzilla
October 30, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
A county clerk in Colorado has finally done the right thing for the voters by removing a touch-screen voting machine from service, and quarantining it, after it was discovered to be flipping votes from one candidate to another. The failed machine in this case was a Diebold Accu-Vote, a frequent flipper.
More here
‘Bout damn time.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
I must say, I’ve waited a couple of days for a reaction, and having seen any, am a bit perplexed.
Democrats were largely critical of the Bush Administration’s surveillance of, and intrusion into, the lives of citizens, particularly without a warrant. The right to privacy was cited, the abuses of government were listed and the ‘trashing of the Constitution” was widely lamented.
Yet now comes a case wherein a citizen on the other side of the divide has been victim of government snooping and hardly a word is said. The agencies came up with a weak excuse to cover their violations - I’ll address those only if anyone is serious enough to think they constitute adequate process for the stated objectives and safeguards of citizen rights - so again, I’m left wondering, were the past expressions of outrage really based upon defending the citizenry from an intrusive government, or was it merely the latest headline that could be exploited for partisan gain?
Link: government snooping of Joe the Plumber more extensive than first admitted
Note: any time a government agency is questioned and attempts to minimize the extent of its action, and we later find its actions are far more pervasive, it’s a good clue they’re feeling a bit guilty.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
The tape, al Qaeda and Obama Bin Biden-
DUBAI (Reuters) - An al Qaeda leader has called for President George W. Bush and the Republicans to be “humiliated,” without endorsing any party in the upcoming U.S. presidential election, according to a video posted on the Internet.
So which side are you voting for?
al Qaeda’s?
By GodHatesTrash
October 30, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
You know, Midori, most of these rightwingnuts’ “porn stashes” consist of dog-eared copies of Field and Stream and pro wrestling magazines.
By Mr Snarky
October 30, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
This kind of crap is the conservative version of Hope. Pretty lame.
By GreenJeans
October 30, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Amvet at 3:56, you have it.
The MSM can report and reveal all, right up to the point at which their paycheck is cut. How many hot topics get major play, just to peter out at the point of resolution and truth?
You can absolutely see the moment when talking heads turn into nice, compliant little Stepford Wives.
Also, it doesn’t help that the onset of 24-hour news channels have created a vacuum that must be filled with something, anything…spin, innuendo, controversy, fear. The idea looked great on paper, but the reality has delivered to us a bunch of pointless crap.
I was pleased that JB quoted the Christian Science Monitor the other day. That’s my favorite news source. The news may come a couple of days later, but it is much more thoughtful and thorough.
By The Truth is Out There
October 30, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
Go ahead Paul and explain to all of us the difference between listening in on someone’s personal phone calls versus checking into their employment history, for example. What constitutes a person’s private life versus one’s public life and who should have access to each. Inquiring minds need to know, now that it has been brought up.
By Midori
October 30, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
LOL, Sir Trash.
wonder which Andy’s favorite is?
B*tches in Heat?
Ugly Ursines?
Bodacious Bovines?
LMAO!!
By Bud Wiser
October 30, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Quite frankly Jay, it rolls down to whether or not you:
a) believe that the Times really has a tape.
b) believe that they have a tape, but are sheltering Obama by not releasing it.
c) believe that the Times reporter really did make a deal with the source not to reveal them.
d) believe that they have no tape whatsoever, but are posturing this for the notoriety, hiding behind the confidentiality aspect.
What you believe most of the time depends on who you are supposed to believe. That belief is founded upon such things as the person’s integrity as you know it, or as you may have seen it in action before in other dealings
I assert that the LA Times, in their unequivocal support for Obama as shown by the slant of their journalism, their trashing of McCain, and Palin in particular, has forfeited any sense of journalistic integrity, therefore are not to be beleived about almost anything, certainly not trusted in the political arena.
I therefore declare that option (b) above is the most logical choice of the three. Like so many have recently said, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. The Los Angeles Times is a journalistic pig. Amen.
By RB from Gwinnett
October 30, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
Let’s face it. If there weren’t anything in the tape, it would be released. Everybody knows that. Obviously, the tape contains something damaging to Obama.
At this point, do we even need to see the tape to know Obama hangs out with the enemies of this nation? Even the blind and stupid liberals on this blog know that. They just don’t care. They wouldn’t care if he had breakfast with satan every morning BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO MORAL FOUNDATION.
Obama ‘08 - Hoping for cash, not change!! Gimme the rich man’s money!!!
By GodHatesTrash
October 30, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
Anybody attending a Hensley-McCain rally, you’ll need a secret code to get in - when you get to the bouncers, one will challenge you by saying 88. You respond 14.
Or, they will ask you A.Y.A.K.? (Are You A Klansman?). You respond A.K.A.I (A Klansman Am I). Grab your belt with your thumb and index finger, and point the other three fingers towards the floor. (This will also get you access to Wooten’s office at the AJC).
Or, if this all too hard for you to remember (and it probably is), you can show them a backwards B scratched on your face, and your favorite mascara.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
As often happens in such cases, the paper is in the absurd position of defending itself for withholding information while thumping its chest about the public’s right to know-Taranto, WSJ
By AmVet
October 30, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
GreenJeans, I concur about the CSM.
A great publication.
I’ve grown tired of this childish rant by the lunatic fringe of the right-wing regarding the “liberal media”.
Like many of their diatribes it has no basis in fact, that I can see. Otherwise they would provide the plethora of evidence to support that absurd notion.
Have you ever seen any of it? Neither have I.
Facts are facts. And opinions are like…
In this case it simply serves their hyper-partisan position.
I believe had they nominated ANY of those other eight candidates, they would be behind by thirty points.
The fact is, the nation is simply sick of the neo-cons and their outdated, impractical agenda.
It took a RINO, despised by the GOP power brokers and malevolent talking heads, to make this race competitive, and they cannot bear to admit that THEY, not the media, are the reason they will suck hind t!t again next week…
By Paul
October 30, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
“Truth”
You really don’t see the the overall point of government intrusion into one’s life, whether it’s recording calls or digging though records? Really?!!? Especially without any well-defined processes and legislatively-approved objectives?
You’re serious?!!?
Ever hear of Nixon and the Enemies’ List? You’re really wishing for a reincarnation come this January? Or a continuation of the Bush Administration?
You know, I’ve noted how Bush was new to the Fed system and he picked an old white guy who’d been around forever to guide him through. Or how he reserved the right to invade countries who hadn’t attacked us but were doing things we didn’t like. And I’ve noted - that’s more like Obama-Biden than it is McCain-Palin. You’ve just given us one more example - the Right to Snoop. Thanks.
Greenjeans
Long time, no hear. Beginning 2009 the Christian Science Monitor is doing away with its daily pub and going online. They will do a weekly summary which they will mail, though. Cost is $89 a year.
By Fred
October 30, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
Nice article Jay on a HUGE non issue.
Those too stupid to understand will never understand honor and integrity because they are lacking in those departments. The dude said he wouldn’t make the tape public and he’s NOT. I didn’t know Democrats had that much spine and to see it so makes me even more proud of the vote I will cast Tuesday for not only Senator Obama, but also for Jim Martin to make HIM a Senator. I think the last democrat I voted for was John Stennis………..
By The Truth is Out There
October 30, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
Paul,
You really call THAT a Retort?!! You SeriouS!! Have you ever heard of background checks to see if a person really is who he/she claims to be versus listening to a soldier and his/her spouse’s intimate conversation. ARE You SerIouS!!? REaLLy!!
Then again, you just cannot answer the questions posed so you make up that trash to throw out instead. Don’t bother throwing out any more of your trash — I know what to expect now.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
On my way to lunch recently, I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read “Vote Obama; I need the money.” I laughed. In a restaurant my server had on an “Obama 08” tie. Again I laughed. Just imagine the coincidence. When the bill came, I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Barack-Obama-redistribution-of-wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need—the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight. I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I’ve decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful. At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment, I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more. I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.-Letter To The Editor, Chicago Tribune
Moron liberals.
More On.
By Hillbilly Deluxe
October 30, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
If the shoe was on the other foot the LA Times would be talking about “the public’s right to know”.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
Truth
A retort? No. Just not spending a lot of time on an answer to someone I hoped was pulling my leg. If you’re one of those who believes gov’t agencies can generally go looking through citizen records whenever something strikes their interest, well, there’s really not much to say to people who believe such. Except we have widely divergent views about the power of the government.
The article noted the agency head used the excuse “whenever someone comes in the public spotlight…” That’s incredible. Many states, for child support, have the payee pay a state agency, who then forwards the amount to the recipient. It’s easy to check those records to see if someone is in arrears. Many states do such checks when people apply for professional licenses or when doing a similar transaction.
But when they ‘come into the spotlight”? The processes are either weak, nonexistent or are being violated by public servants.
So, rather than defending a practice you asked me why I thought it so odious. I did. So will you now state when you think it appropriate for government employees to investigate private citizens, especially those whose name is brought up in a political situation, and what safeguards should exist?
By RB from Gwinnett
October 30, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
Truthie, if you think the only thing about Joe the plummer they looked as was a “background check” there is no hope for you. You aren’t very bright. They dug into every last aspect of the man’s life they could get their slimy little hands on and made every effort possible to discredit him. EVERY effort.
But that’s not even the big issue here, dimwit.
The big issue here is WHY?
The “why” is because the man just happened to be talking to the annointed one when he stuck his socialist spread the wealth foot in his mouth. Nothing Joe the plumber said was unfair, dishonest, slanderous, discourteous, anything. So why did the slime balls need to look into ANYTHING about him?
Answer… To distract from the “spread the wealth” answer.
If your OK with people being investigated for merely talking to your leaders, you’re part of the problem.
By Douglas
October 30, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
Release a complete transcript of the tape.
By Swami Dave
October 30, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
Souix:
I was simply participating in the decent discussion. Since you were apparently unable to address any of the points & were instead left to only make a vague association to where you think I might have gotten them (I think that you referenced Hannity), I can only assume that you had no real answer to them.
To answer your questions, no - I didn’t know who owned the LA Times (nor did I really care) until you mentioned it (and I checked to verify on wikipedia).
However, if you want some more to consider, the reality stands that there has been more attention and investigation into the background of “Joe The Plumber” than most any of Senator Obama’s “acquaintances” whom he “never heard say anything out of norm”. Surprisingly, a citizen who asked a candidate a question (that he wasn’t expecting, didn’t like, and that largely highlighted the true nature of his ideas) is mocked, discounted, and investigated [probably illegally] within 24 hours, but people with whom he’s been associated for decades that are outside even the kook fringe of mainstream America are ignored.
Personally, you’d have more credibility with me if you simply acknowledged the fact. There’s truly no reason to deny the reality since there is little that I can do to “fix” it. Objectivity, that allegedly existed in the past, has been completely surrendered during this cycle for outright active support.
-Swami Dave
By citizen
October 30, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
Google ‘Rashid Kahlidi’ These is so much out there on the web about his support of Palestinians and his disdain of George Bush. Please people, take a look at Obama’s friends. We are such a tolerant society that some people are falling for his empty promises. Listen to Kahlidi’s explanation of how Chicago politics’ works.
By GodHatesTrash
October 30, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
Stiffing a waiter - what an effing moron.
Hope the waiter peed in this kkklown’s soup…
By paul
October 30, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
Once you start doing this shady stuff like hiding tapes on a candidate(Obama),ones that we really don’t know much about as it is,you lose my trust.
By TN Gelding
October 30, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
“The Corporal”
October 30, 2008 3:06 PM
You’re comparing apples to oranges to apple juice.
How many of those called to service in WWII had to be sent home because they couldn’t pass the physical?
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
George Bush spies on al Qaeda terrorists and the left whines about it.
The left spies on plumbers, Joe Biden’s Catholic priest, the governor of Alaska’s family, the husband of a news anchor that dared to ask their beloved queen a question or two and the right whines about it.
So which side are you on?
By Paul
October 30, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
GodHatesTrash
I believe that’s one of those Urban Legends written to make a point.
Other point is, we’ve be ‘redistributing the wealth” since we’ve had an income tax. Before that, actually. Only difference now is, many people see it for what it is and say “hey, wait a minute!”
Much is made it’s distributed to those “who won’t work.” Wrong. Much will go to middle-class families. Or the working poor. But I still think it beats subsidizing multigazillionaires.
Now if George Soros would just move a couple of his accounts from the Caribbean to, say, New York, then, heck, Obama would have a lot more to spread around!
Swami Dave
What I find particularly chilling is, unlike Nixon, who had gov’t agencies comb through records of people he didn’t like, here we have a candidate in an interchange. Then, it’s the state employees who begin combing records. Not Fed. State. Many would wonder, did a campaign staffer ask for assistance? Or are some employees partisan and were acting on their own?
Either way, I think a citizen should be able to ask or say pretty much anything to a politician (a servant of the people) and be able to leave the encounter with no further action taken. By anyone.
By GreenJeans
October 30, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Amvet:
Lynne Cheney used the term “hostile media” months ago, and it struck me that the media is always “hostile” to anyone, on any side, who can’t frame their own message.
I earned my BA in Journalism in ‘86, and one of our final courses was Media and the Future. As we, ourselves, were transitioning to CRT computers and computer layout and design, we were also studying things like the eventual transition to HDTV broadcasts and on-your-computer newspapers. Side note: At the time, it was expected that everyone would just print out their own newspaper at home, can you believe? We couldn’t envision mobile laptops and the like.
Anyway…although my career took me in a different direction, my heart still aches because of the USA Today-ing of the industry. It is sad, and Ray’s earlier comment about Walter Cronkite struck a chord with me, too.
Paul:
Oh, I’m here periodically. Let’s just say that there’s been a certain, um, global thing going on that has captured everyone’s attention. So my lunch and snack times have all but evaporated in the last few months :-)
Yes, I was thinking that the CSM has to change. The cost has been way too prohibitive for a lot of folks, and that’s a shame. You sure get what you pay for.
By the way, for what it’s worth…I took a solo retreat into the mountains in late August for some meditation and renewal. One afternoon you cast of blog folk wouldn’t leave my thoughts (withdrawals?), so I tried to remember each of you, by name, in prayers for peace.
To seal the deal, I shot a 1-minute video out the back of my tent to capture the moment. If interested, I’ll log on at home tonight and direct you to our little oasis on Youtube.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
By the way, drove by the polling place in East Cobb, there was a line up the damn street as far as you could see that looped around itself twice. You couldn’t have parked within a mile.
Anybody wanna bet the Oblahma/ Martin voters were rare birds in this flock?
Surprise, surprise pinkkkos.
By @@
October 30, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
In his own life, John McCain has put a lot of emphasis on personal and professional honor, citing it as a central part of his being. He ought to recognize that others can be motivated by personal and professional honor as well.
Speaking of honor — McCain did stick to his commitment on public financing.
I say OBlahMa going back on his promise to do the same does not speak well of him.
You’d have to ask his supporters how they feel about all the other contradictions he’s made during his campaign run…….
Withdrawal from Iraq
The Cuban embargo
The Patriot Act
PAYGO
Decriminalizing marijuana
Donations from lobbyists, special interests and PACS
Palestinian elections
Jerusalem
I could go on and on………
It would be my honor to do so, jay.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
Greanjeans
I’d like that.
And, thank you.
By Mike
October 30, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
And if Fox News had a tape of McCain, Bookman would be railing about.
Does Bookman really think it is a coincidence that his opinions always side with the liberal spin? Does he really think he is any different than Sean Hannity?
By AmVet
October 30, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
GreenJeans, great reference to Ms. Cheney.
My hands down favorite though is the adorable Spiro “nolo contendere” Agnew’s “nattering nabobs of negativism”!
With a great deal of uncertainty left until next Tuesday a couple of things are all but assured:
McCain will take South Dakota, Utah, South Carolina, Idaho, Wyoming, Kansas, Mississippi, Alaska and Nebraska.
He’ll likely also win Arkansas, North Dakota, Montana, Louisiana and West Virginia.
Obama will take California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachusetts, Washington, Michigan, Maryland and Oregon.
He will likely also capture Pennsylvania, Virginia, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Colorado.
Illustrative.
Or as Andy would say, Hmmmmmmm…….
By TW
October 30, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
Anybody wanna bet the Oblahma/ Martin voters were rare birds in this flock?
Call Vegas, chickensh!t.
Thought not.
2008 GOP - no class, no brains, no balls.
bwa.
By TW
October 30, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this
In his advocacy for our system of progressive tax, President Roosevelt said he believed ‘in a graduated income tax on big fortunes.’ So, unless this waiter was indeed a rich boy just waiting tables for the exercise, all our crafty right-winger really did was continue to screw the middle class, as has sadly become the mantra for the new Republican party, the party of George W Bush and John S. McCain.
Back in the day this was called a dick move. I suppose by now we could just call it a ‘cheney.’
By Paul
October 30, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
@@
I was just thinking of you and our earlier conversations about the emergent Russian and their relationship to the former Republics. Particularly about the power of Putin and his comments about the lost glory of the Soviet Union.
While I was working I was listening to some recordings by the Russian Red Army Choir (really). I think one of the prettiest national anthems is the Soviet National Anthem. But on to my point: as I was listening, I wondered if you were aware the first verse pretty much translates as:
Unbreakable Union of freeborn Republics, Great Russia has welded forever to stand. Created in struggle by will of the people, United and mighty, our Soviet land!
That struck me, in light of Putin, the Georgian/Ukranian situation - and here we have an anthem that stirs some pretty powerful emotions and longings in Russia. And, I’d imagine, a bit of trepidation in the Republics.
Anyhow, I thought you might find it interesting -
Thanks for indulging an off-topic post this late in the day, Jay.
By Bud Wiser
October 30, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
Jeremiah Wright - sat in the church for over twenty years and “never heard” any of the famous hate rhetoric from that slime’s mouth
Uh huh.
Tony Rezko - a neighbor that sold him some property he wanted.
Oh yeah.
Bill Ayers - just a guy in “the neighborhood”, some guy he didn’t know very well
Right.
Rashid Kalidi - another guy ‘in my neighborhood that my kids play with their kids”
What do they do, make pipe bombs in the playground?
Now that is a real laundry list of people to be proud to be tied to in the public venue, isn’t it? And those are just for starters, many names have been left off for brevity’s sake.
Sorry losers, but it is a definite case of GUILT BY ASSOCIATION. I certainly never have had contact with such a volatile crowd, but then again I am not (unfortunately for the country) running for President.
I cannot even think out any public official that has had so much documented contact with such a long list of terrorists, convicted felons, and outright racists, and still been able to maintain any stature in the public eye. This huckster, The Token One, is about to pull the greatest fraud in the history of this nation, if he gets elected.
The media I fully understand …. they just want to be on The Token Ones short list of party invitees in the Washington circuit.
His bulk of supporters I also understand …. freeloaders, losers, and the entitlement crowd, always wanting to get something for nothing, no work experience, or work for that matter, required.
But, it is not going to happen. The famous Silent Majority will resurrect and show up at the polls Tuesday. Most will be white, real middle class Americans. America is still basically central-right, and those folks will have had more than a belly full of this socialist redistribute the wealth crap Obama and Biden are trying to force feed them. They are sick of the class warfare, the wealth envy tactics of the left.
Oh, they’ll be there all right, if they haven’t voted already. After all, most of them work for a living, unlike the loser left gimme crowd you see smiling behind the Token One at his rallys.
Obama/Biden ‘08 - making it as easy as it has ever been to be stupid
By Soixante huitard
October 30, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
Hey Mike: Does he really think he is any different than Sean Hannity?
I do.
Being on the side of truth makes it different.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this
TW: After the pinko press and the surrender monkey Congress went on and on and on all day and all night for years about how America could never, ever win in Iraq, what do you reckon the odds in Vegas were for that?
It did surprise the crap out of your pompous little aristocrat, didn’t it?
Drink your koolaid, klown.
By AfroDawg
October 30, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
If Khalidi is such a nefarious fellow, then why on earth did John McCain give him nearly $500,000.00? Maybe McCain should release film footage of himself holding court at Bull Feathers lounge in Washington (telling racist jokes, and using the N-word).
By Paul
October 30, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
AmVet
After Agnew came out with his “Silent Majority” rhetoric I put a bumper sticker on the family car.
“The Majority Is Not Silent. The Government is Deaf.”
My dad thought it was cool.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
“Dear Mr Obama having spent 12 months in Iraq theatre I can promise you it’s not a mistake.”
At 1 minute 55 seconds, it’s short, simple and powerful.
“When you call the Iraqi war a mistake you disrespect the service and sacrifice of everyone who has died promoting freedom… Because you do not understand or appreciate these principles Sir, I am supporting Senator John McCain for president.”
The film, titled Dear Mr Obama, is the most-viewed election-related video on the YouTube website, attracting more than 11 million hits.-BBC
Surprise, surprise pinkkkos.
By The Truth is Out There
October 30, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this
Well Paul and now RB,
It would appear that neither of you excels in reading comprehension so I’ll start by re-posting my original post and give you two a chance to re-read it before you both go off on your tangents again:
Go ahead Paul and explain to all of us the difference between listening in on someone’s personal phone calls versus checking into their employment history, for example. What constitutes a person’s private life versus one’s public life and who should have access to each. Inquiring minds need to know, now that it has been brought up.
Now, exactly what in my comments led either of you down your little rants and baseless assumptions. Really! Paul, all you were doing with your original post was trying to pick a fight because Jay or some other columnist has not given McCain’s lifeline, Joe the Plumber, and his plight with background checks as much attention as they have the Bush administration and its blatant abuse of the Constitution. Well, BOO HOO. Cry me a river, Paul. I think that you are really reaching out there to even make a comparison between the two scenarios especially after reading the attached letter from the ODJFS in the document that you referenced. And RB. What on earth led you down your little war path. You just tagging along or did you have an original thought to share. Go ahead and point out exactly what I said that got your goat and I’ll see if it is worthy of any more of my attention.
By TW
October 30, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
Bud Wiser - how about John McCain’s association with GEORGE W BUSH!
Seriously, though - did it ever occur to you that the American people don’t really care who Obama associated with? That maybe, at this point in time, anybody is better than a Republican?
After all, one could make a great argument for the GOP having screwed us harder over the last eight years than anything any terrist has ever done.
Consider your blinding arrogance a gift, loser.
By AmVet
October 30, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
@@, also on that list:
Obama’s decision to support the revised domestic surveillance bill, after he had previously said he would support a filibuster of any bill that included retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.
He has also raced away from his ealier positions on:
trade protectionism
gun control
the death penalty
offshore drilling
Even his Iraq troop pullout plan
Asked if he thinks Obama is trying to “talk white,” Nader said, “of course….The number one thing that a black American politician aspiring to the presidency should be is to candidly describe the plight of the poor, especially in the inner cities and the rural areas, and have a very detailed platform about how the poor is going to be defended by the law, is going to be protected by the law, and is going to be liberated by the law,” Nader said. “We haven’t heard a thing.”
Obama wants to show he’s not “another politically threatening African-American politician. He wants to appeal to white guilt. You appeal to white guilt not by coming on as black is beautiful, black is powerful. Basically he’s coming on as someone who is not going to threaten the white power structure, whether it’s corporate or whether it’s simply oligarchic. And they love it. Whites just eat it up.”
And as a true progressive black man paraphrasing a white liberal said, “the truth shall set you free…
By Bill Hastings
October 30, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
I am glad that Obama’s comments are “on the record.” I feel so much better now that a liberal newspaper and reporter say to trust them when they say that that is all “on the record.” Give me a break. If the roles were reversed and McCain were at the party, you would be after the Times to release it.
By GodHatesTrash
October 30, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
You’ll need a secret password to vote in Cobb County, folks.
You’ll be asked - A.Y.A.K? (Are You A Klansman?)
You answer - A.K.A.I (A Klansman Am I)
If you know the secret handshake, you can vote twice.
Women with backwards B’s carved in their faces and bad mascara can go to the head of the line.
By TW
October 30, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
AJC/DNC@6:10 - I’ll take that to mean, ‘why yes, TW, you are correct. I wish I had the balls to back up my idiot wind and make a bet, but I don’t. That’s why I sit here and vent all day - a cozy place of no accountability.’
Gee, imagine that - a rightinger who’s all mouth.
bwa.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
Management 6:12
Wow. That was an emotional hit to the gut. Just went out on my email list. Agree or not, I’m grateful there’s a young man who is not bitter, but proud.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this
Oh, don’t pout TW, I didn’t mean to frighten you.
There, there, I’ll offer some words of comfort, TW, Vegas has always been a sure thing.
All you have to do is show up and you’ll be rich!
By Paul
October 30, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
Truth 6:18
The issue is government snooping. At 4:33 I did not defend the Bush Administration. I noted the political opposition was outraged over snooping and noted they’d been silent or justified other government snooping.
But on to your last post: what makes you think that because the Bush Administration did it it’s acceptable if state officials do it? I think both are wrong and that one shouldn’t condemn privacy invasions in one case and excuse it in another.
By GodHatesTrash
October 30, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
Andi, maybe that crowd you saw was for wrestling tickets, free Skoal, a monster truck rally, or a dogfight.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
Here’s a better indicator than Vegas, McCain’s poll numbers continue to rise and so does the stock market.
Dow up 2.11%
Voting with real money.
By AmVet
October 30, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
Paul, OUTSTANDING bumper sticker! One I don’t think I’ve ever hard of before. Which given my proclivities, is a bit odd…
Personally, I lost a great deal of respect for Senator Obama, along with Reid and Pelosi when they took impeachment “off the table” in 2006.
The fundamental question was and still is, did this administration mislead us into war by manipulating and misstating intelligence, concerning weapons of mass destruction and alleged ties to Al Qaeda, suppressing contrary intelligence, and deliberately exaggerating the danger a contained, weakened Iraq posed to the United States and its neighbors?
If this answer is yes, as I believe it is, Bush and Cheney have committed ”high crimes and misdemeanors.
In addition to this potentially criminal war of aggression in Iraq, in violation of the US Constitution, statutes and treaties, there are the arrests of thousands of Americans and their imprisonment without charges, the spying on Americans without juridical warrant, systematic torture, and the unprecedented wholesale, defiant signing statements declaring that the President, in his unbridled discretion, is the law. No man is the law. Never in our country’s history have we seen the rule by fiat as we have seen under the outlaw rule of Bush.
It is never too late to enforce the Constitution. It is never too late to uphold the rule of law. It is never too late to awaken the Congress to its sworn duties under the Constitution. But it will soon be too late to avoid the searing verdict of history when on January 21, 2009, George W. Bush escapes the justice that was never pursued by those in Congress solely authorized to hold the President accountable.
So IMHO, based on the mountains of fabrications, deceptions, and lies, there was NEVER a time to “take impeachment off the table”.
The Democratic Party has abandoned its critical role as an opposition Party in this and other serious matters.
No wonder the Congressional approval ratings are the lowest in history.
And that is why I see them as spineless and unworthy of my support…
By GreenJeans
October 30, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
Paul:
Hope this works
and doesn’t break any bloghog rules.
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
This is an amazing race. The incumbent president has approval ratings somewhere between Robert Mugabe and the ebola virus. The economy is supposedly on the brink of global Armageddon. McCain has only $80 million to spend, while Obama’s burning through $600 mil as fast as he can, and he doesn’t really need to spend a dime given the wall-to-wall media adoration. And tonight Chris Matthews’ doctors announced that his leg tingle has metastasized leaving his entire body like a vibrating cellphone whose ringtone is locked on “I’m In Love, I’m In Love, I’m In Love, I’m In Love, I’m In Love With A Wonderful Guy.”
And yet an old cranky broke loser is within two or three points of the King of the World. Strange.-Steyn, NRO
Surprise, surprise pinkkkos.
By @@
October 30, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
Paul:
It would appear Putin is doing a lot of welding to stand Russia up. This was at Stratfor at the beginning of the economic meltdown and it’s only gotten worse since then.
I like the part in that article about the geographical differences between the U.S. and Russia. Those are the type of things that most people (or maybe it’s just me) don’t think about.
As for now, their failing economy has somewhat blinded ‘em in their wandering eye.
Stratfor has a summary of the status of their economy as of today.
Russian foreign exchange reserves fell $31 billion in the week ending Oct. 24 as a result of the Russian government’s move to prop up its banks and corporations. To prevent a massive bloodletting in these sectors, Moscow has initiated a plan to use its vast foreign reserves to rescue its banks and corporations. The end result of this strategy will be increased government control of the economy and reduced overall cash reserves.
These are my little excursions into what was once foreign to me. Fascinating! I didn’t know the IMF could be so useful on the strategic front.
I wish I had a better understanding of finances. All I know to do is hold onto and spend wisely that which is mine.
By Midori
October 30, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
Sir Trash,
check it out
bunch of stumbling, bumbling idiots.
Andy’s and Bud Wiser’s heros.
Idiots.
By Paul
October 30, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
AmVet
I’ll be amazed if someone from the Democratic side rebuts that.
Side bet: given with the Congressional Democratic majority it may take a while, but wanna bet on when Obama issues his own signing statements? Or something similar?
:-)
Can you imagine watching the other two candidates if Nader had been allowed in the debates, with answers like that? Oh, what might have been -
By The Truth is Out There
October 30, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
Paul,
I agree that the issue is government snooping and I strongly oppose government snooping into a person’s private life. Of course, we could also argue for a lifetime about what constitutes a “private life” but that’s another story. I also stand by my previous statement about your other interests — you have come across as having a “bone to pick” repeatedly about one issue receiving coverage and the other not receiving comparable coverage. If you’re wanting to point out that you think that the Republicans are getting more negative coverage than the Democrats, that’s OK. Just go for it. Back on the snooping, in the case of the Bush administration, I was referring to agents listening in on private conversations, such as the ones that have been mentioned in the news as being talked about around the water coolers, of US citizens as an example of wrong behavior by our government and I did not use that as an example to excuse anyone else’s behavior. You mis-read me. As for the state agency’s behavior, I cannot jump ahead to a conclusion that they have done anything inappropriate after reading that attached letter. Requests were made for information and that agency claims to have done nothing illegal or inappropriate. Time may provide a different accounting. Did I miss something in that letter or do you have something else to share that was not in the article that you cited?
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
i r o diM: He’s not allowed to say “Jeremiah Wright,” remember?
By Paul
October 30, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this
Greenjeans
Thank you. The link worked fine. It must’ve been a relaxing, calming getaway. I can only imagine at the rest of the scenery.
@@
Most Americans don’t realize just how bad the Russian economic meltdown was/is. Russians tend to get aggressive when times are bad. I look forward to reading the articles.
Now with natural gas prices collapsing, things’ll just get worse for them.
By GodHatesTrash
October 30, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
Seriously, Midori, I can’t tell a bunch of Hensley-McCain voters from the line to the outhouse at a dogfight.
By AmVet
October 30, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
What’s to rebut?
The worst part, as you alluded, is that due to this historic Congressional cowardliness, future US Presidents may also be emboldened to treat the Constitution like a piece of fish wrap and who may be similarly tempted to establish themselves above and beyond the rule of law…
By Midori
October 30, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
Andy,
do YOU even know what you are talking about?
By Midori
October 30, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
this fits Andy and Corporal to a “T”
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
i r o diM: O.K. let’s go through this real slow.
The metrosexual CNN reporter, having become hysterical because someone would dare to challenge his beloved Der Fuhrer, asked which other terrorist buddy of Oblahmi’s “everybody knew was a Jew hater.”
The McCain campaign has taken Reverend Wrong off the table, so the dude said “you know who.”
This made the CNN morphodite go even more berserk and I think the McCain campaign guy was afraid for his safety.
What am I missing, dearie?
By @@
October 30, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
@@, also on that list
AmVet, the boyscout?
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.
All except for the God part anyway
Whodathunkit?
By Paul
October 30, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
Truth
My interest is consistency. If that comes across as a “bone to pick” then so be it.
If the principle is snooping, then it’s wrong, no matter the party. If one side condemns it in one case it should be condemned in another.
One side condemns the other for starting an unjust war, but by the statements in the third debate, if Bush hadn’t invaded Obama would have considered it fair game.
If it comes across as being slanted more to one side than the other, well, it is a liberal blog, after all, and on some of the more egregious issues - the Left just seems to stand out more. But issues do come up - I wasn’t much for the Swiftboating of Kerry, and applied the same principles to speak against those who went off on Pres Bush’s National Guard time. I’ve pointed out the economic situation (balanced budget) when Clinton left office, the massive expansion under Bush and the conflict with the ideal of smaller gov’t.
I’ve noted “tax and spend” seems preferable to “borrow and spend.”
We’re signing off on eight years of “Republican” rule (in quotes as I still scratch my head over what Republican principles have been in play) and here I see Democrats marching forward embracing some of the same things! Sorry, but that’s not the ‘change’ I want.
Sorry if I misread you. Around here, when someone brings up an issue of poor conduct the response is often “well, Bush did worse.” So both are wrong.
I am still suspicious of that letter, it sounds like cover to me. The fact they’d say “when someone comes in the public eye” as a trigger is amazing. As I briefly pointed out before, many states have ‘triggers’ when someone renews a professional license, applies for a significant permit, etc. Databases (such as for child support) also exist.
But to run checks on someone who makes a public statement about what they might do? (Buy a business). To begin searching personal data in advance any action, based solely on a statement of intent?
And of course, all the information got out. In spite of the good intentions of the gov’t official.
I tend to take a pretty hard line on privacy. And this situation just doesn’t pass the common-sense test for me.
If it were up to me, people would be fired or reassigned, then clear policies would be developed and promulgated describing specifically in which circumstances gov’t employees can run ‘checks’ on people. With notice of penalties for violation.
And I don’t care if it’s for Joe the Plumber or Jim the ACORN staffer. Gov’t should generally leave people alone.
I may be signing off soon, so if you respond and I don’t, please don’t take it as a slight. I generally do a quick review in the morning. Gets the nerve synapses in the brain firing in some semblance of order -
By Midori
October 30, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
Andy,
Slow is your middle name.
And why do you always have to bring up one’s sexuality?
That shines a big, bright light on your lack of comfort with your own.
Bottom line is, the turd was very good at spreading the usual wingnut garbage, but for the life of him, couldn’t answer the question.
Is that s-l-o-w enough for you?
By AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
i r o diM: I am answering the question for him now.
Jeremiah Wright.
By TN Gelding
October 30, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
AJC/DNC Management
October 30, 2008 5:47 PM
Are you a terrorist?
Belive me, he’s spying on you too.
Uh, that’s apprentices.
By The Truth is Out There
October 30, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
Paul,
Glad to hear it. Instead of commenting on a bunch of individual items (there’s no need to try to cover so much territory in one post) this go around, I’ll just skip down to near the end of your post to your comments about ousting the miscreants from office. Let’s use that infamous trickle-down approach of the Republicans and impeach Bush and company and work down the list to all states in need of a good purging (Stevens was just a start of what is most assuredly needed throughout all 50) for surely Bush and his administration must be setting a pathetic and inexcusable example for all others to follow. I agree with AmVet’s comments. We need to ship Congress some big bags of big marbles and tell them to use as needed for what they apparently are lacking and start the trials. It’s the right thing to do. These scumbags think they are above the law and Congress is, at best, complicit with its attitude thus far.
By The Voice of Reason
October 30, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
I find it strange that Jay Bookman would use the veil of journalist integrity as his justification for not releasing this tape. And while I agree that the agreement in place regarding the confidentiality of the content is paramount, if this tape showed John McCain shaking the hand of Saddam Hussein the L.A. Times would have publicly skewered him long ago.
The double standard and hypocrisy of the liberal press cannot be defended, nor should it be.
NBC, CBS, ABC and CNN have long been the advocates of the Democratic Party while FOX is clearly in the Republican camp.
America, do yourself a favor. Turn the TV off when the talking heads speak. The internet is far more informative and it allows for the ability of the user to form his or her own unbiased opinion.
By Alibe
October 30, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
So the L. A. Times “was given access to the tape and permission to write about its contents only on condition that the tape not be released to the public.” Wrap your brain around that for a moment. What possible reason could there be for a newspaper to accept a tape on the condition that it not be released to the public? So that the information can remain available only to a chosen few like Wallsten? If anyone believes that crock, I have a nice chunk of swampland in Florida I’d like to sell them!
By Richard Brooklyn, NY
October 31, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
I am thoroughly convinced there is no “there,” there with this story. Why McCain and the McCainiacs are whining about this footage not being released, is because they desperately want to misinterpret whatever is in it, and then use the footage to run a sleazy swiftboat ad from it’s contents regardless of it’s relevance. Seeing as a group McCain chaired gave Khalidi $450k once for their work,
By Laura
November 2, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
your articles logic is flawed.
First, you reason that no one should be interested in the true contents of the tape and should instead be focused on “real issues”
Then, you argue that the deal the reporter made was acceptable or otherwise none of us would have known about the tape. So….now be grateful we know about information for which we shouldn’t focus on anyway??? That doesn’t make any logical sense.
The media’s job it to report. Not to decide what is relevant to me.
Instead, the media is not only trying to tell me what’s relevant, but also telling me what I should and should not consider relevant to determinng a man’s character.
For instance, the media is statding that Obama’s associations aren’t relevant…
Let’s look at that logic.
If you believe that a man’s associations aren’t relevant, then I would expect that you don’t care who your children hang out with.
And I would expect you to believe that a driver for a get-away car shouldn’t be prosecuted if he claimed to be there and didn’t know what was going on….
Just not reasonable. A man is known by the crowd of people for which he is CONSISTENLY caught keeping company.
And if a man is putting himself forward for our trust to run our country, we deserve to know the details of his associations.
It’s relevant to our justice system. It’s relevant to us as parents. It’s relevant to our electing our President.