Jay Bookman

By TN Gelding

October 21, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

You can’t fix it as long as you have zealots willing to do anything to win, but it can be improved. This guy has some good suggestions, but don’t look for anything to come of it. The Democrats and Republicans won’t give up their power.

By ByteMe

October 21, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

The problem is NOT election confidence. I’m totally confident that my vote is counted more often now than when I was in my 20’s and we had those old giant mechanical voting booths that usually lost about 10% or more of the votes without any trace.

The problem is that there are only two parties and that makes rigging an election too easy. Both sides do what they can to rig the election. If there were 10 viable parties competing, it would make it harder for one party to gain a huge advantage by rigging an election.

By "The Corporal"

October 21, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Jay

I’m not sure what you are trying to get at here.

1) If you are saying make sure every state has standard ballots and that there is no hanky-pank regarding voting (including illegal votes of any kind) I am all for that !

2) If you are saying the electoral system is outdated I say NO !

This is the United States of America not the United People of America - a Republic but not a * pure democracy* and that’s a big difference.

The electoral system allows the smaller states a slightly bigger voice. They would never have signed the Constitution without it.

Do those who want to change the electoral system want Rhode Island to have two senators and California eighty-five?

Would that be next?

By ByteMe

October 21, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

Corporal: I think you just jumped the shark there with your #2 item.

By AmVet

October 21, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

(From the previous topic)

In one fortnight, this greatest of all nations again engages in one of the greatest of all human endeavors.

It is irrefutable that the next leader of the free world will either be the junior Senator from Illinois or the senior Senator from Arizona.

Both are IMHO good men and great Americans. Both have their unique histories that have informed their views. One from a relatively obscure and lower-middle class upbringing, and the other from a background of prestige and connection.

It does not matter that much.

What does, is the integrity, intellect and vision of these two men.

Both have significant flaws to be sure. Both have made grievous errors in judgment. Both have chosen to associate themselves with very shady characters.

This does not bode well for the republic. Yet, this is where we stand.

There is no longer any relevant doubt that we have just endured perhaps the very worst presidency in the nation’s long history. And some of the least ethical and competent leaders/ideology in a century.

The height of this imperious and deceitful administration, of course, is the ongoing misguided and mismanaged invasion and occupation of Iraq. Yet the world’s number one criminal remains uncaptured. And he likely never will face justice for his evil deeds.

And especially in light of this undeniable situation, both Senators Obama and McCain are, in my opinion, just more of the status quo. And a BIG part of the problem in Washington DC. Given their unimpressive histories, they certainly seem to me, not the solution. And I believe this is the case on a vast array of issues.

And so, I will vote for neither of these candidates.

But we must soldier on in our efforts to undo the awful damage wrought in the past eight years. And mourn our losses. For our children and grandchildren, for the United States of America and for the entire world.

I like to see a man proud of the place in which he lives. I like to see a man live so that his place will be proud of him. ~Abraham Lincoln

By RB from Gwinnett

October 21, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

The system can’t be fixed when an entire political party of nearly half of the population doens’t have any problem with an organization registering bogus voters, fights like hell to keep people from having to show a photo ID to vote, and fights legal battles to allow people to use their foreclosed on address to vote even though they no longer live there and obviously have a new address (from which they can vote as well).

End of story.

Jay, if you really care about this issue, why don’t you write an opinion piece denouncing ACORN and the rest of this garbage? Why don’t you see if you can get clearanc from DNC headquarters to write that one?

By Taxpayer

October 21, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Maybe it’s time for a little ink well at each polling site with one day set aside for everyone to vote and absentee ballots only being counted in cases where their totals exceed the difference in votes between candidates. Now, let’s have a show of fingers, blue that is. After all, how utterly pathetic we, a self-proclaimed advanced civilization, must look to others, on their 3G enabled devices, around the world with our inability to accomplish such a simple task as guaranteeing everyone equal opportunity to cast one and only one vote. To think that we are naive enough to believe in any so-called high-tech company’s claims to be able to use such advanced technologies as face recognition, for example, to help spot terrorists who are actively and deliberately trying to shield themselves from discovery while simultaneously claiming a complete inability to even insure that dead people don’t vote and live one’s do — for the low low introductory cost of 1000 yen plus tax, shipping, and handling. What should the average citizen surmise from all of this — that we are nothing short of yet another good laugh for someone out there. We must surely provide the basis for many a stand-up world-wide and rightfully so because Welcome America. Live, it’s Saturday Night.

By hillbilly ragger

October 21, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

mornin’ all. Money graf in the linked piece:

“We can start with a uniform ballot for federal elections, applicable in all elections. To eliminate voter registration fraud and incompetence, we can move to a national, universal voter registration model. More ambitiously, too, states should consider creating the conditions for nonpartisan election administration, and cleaning up ambiguities and holes in the rules for running our elections.”

Hear, hear. The first two in particular are long overdue.

By AmVet

October 21, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Let us not forget we have a stark choice here in Georgia.

Either the repugnant “Six deferment” Saxby or Jim Martin, a volunteer Vietnam veteran.

These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.

NO MORE NEO-CON SUNSHINE PATRIOTS!

By Dusty

October 21, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

How come “party people” who lose elections always want to revamp the system?

We will never have the perfect system because “somebody” is going to lose the election and “somebody” is going to claim it was “fixed”.

Relax, folks. Take your voter registration card (I got a confirmation one in the mail) and go VOTE. Then learn how to be a good sport and take it on the chin if you lose.

Don’t give the Federal government any more jobs. They have too much to do now. Every NEW job requires hiring somebody else and costs more money. FORGET IT!! We don’t need it!!

By Doggone/GA

October 21, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

“half of the population doens’t have any problem with an organization registering bogus voters”

ACORN does NOT REGISTER voters! They collect the documents and forward them to the states Registrars…as they are REQUIRED to do by most state laws. It is the REGISTRAR who verifies and registers the voter…or who rejects the registration.

By RealityKing

October 21, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

And to read other Richard Hansen’s liberal rants in the LA Times>> http://articles.latimes.com/writers/richard-l-hasen

Come on Jay.., you got to do better than this.

By hillbilly ragger

October 21, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

As a Gwinettian, I want to apologize on behalf of the rational, decent, productive people with whom I share a county, for the ongoing stupidity being drooled out by something calling itself “RB from Gwinnett.”

Its latest bigoted whinge @ 9.53 about ACORN and Those People being allowed to — shock, horror — Vote! being a fairly typical example.

RB, why don’t you want American citizens to vote?

By "The Corporal"

October 21, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

To ByteMe

Translation ??

Do you support the electoral college or not ?

By getalife

October 21, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

In Cali, there are a drive thru voting machines to vote from your car. Drop off absentee ballots.

Early voting has long lines but not as long as waiting for election day.

Hillary Clinton sent me to vote for Barrack Obama and all dems. Jobs, baby, jobs.

Vote early and fire the gop

By E

October 21, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

I have no problem with electronic voting, but we NEED a paper trail to prevent the Repubs from stealing any more elections.

Obama/Biden ‘08

By chaps

October 21, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Don’t worry Mr Bookman, Democrat groups like ACORN are already “fixing” the electoral system.

By ByteMe

October 21, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Corporal: no translation needed. Your second point was outside the bounds of what Jay was discussing.

Do I care about the electoral college? Not so much one way or the other. Most of the time, it coincides with the popular vote and then no one thinks about it anyway.

By Goldie

October 21, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Take your voter registration card (I got a confirmation one in the mail) and go VOTE.

I agree with you Dusty-Brains, and your guy McAngry needs to stop talking about voter fraud all the time and how it’s “unraveling the fabric of our democracy!”, all because he’s so desperate to win, no matter the cost to our great country called America.

By Midori

October 21, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Don’t worry Mr Bookman, Democrat groups like ACORN are already “fixing” the electoral system.

Chaps,

could you please explain exactly how ACORN is “fixing” the electoral system?

By AmVet

October 21, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

One of the other innumerable reasons that the dangerous neo-cons are being relegated to the scrapheap of American history.

Good riddance.

LONDON, England (CNN) — Climate change is happening faster than previously predicted according to a new World Wildlife Fund report.

One of the most concerning aspects of recent data is evidence that, in some places, the Arctic Ocean is losing sea ice 30 years ahead of current IPCC predictions.

Summer sea ice is now forecasted to completely disappear in the summer months sometime between 2013 and 2040 — something which hasn’t happened for over a million years.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/10/20/wwf.climate.report/index.html

(Although it is rather chilly this morning, so to the resident climatology expert here, that is proof positive there is no man-induced climate change!)

By Joey

October 21, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

If the Dims win as you predict, all incentive to “repair a broken system” will evaporate. But let Mc-P break through and the cry for change, the cry of “Voter Fraud” will be louder that a pack of Hyennas.

By RW-(the original)

October 21, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

One wonders what man did a million years ago to cause the sea ice to melt. Sounds cyclical to me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is no reason whatsoever to federalize an election or a balloting system. As long as a state has a fair system that treats the citizens of that state evenly the feds have no business being involved.

By Bosch

October 21, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

Joey,

That’s BS, whose screaming voter fraud now, even, before I might add, WE’VE EVEN FREAKING VOTED????

By "The Corporal"

October 21, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

To ByteMe

Are you serious? Most of what is posted on these blogs (including yours) are outside the bounds of what Jay is saying.

So why single me out ?

By Bosch

October 21, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Midori (and whoever else watched the show),

Did you see the Daily Show last night and Jon Stewart’s equation for how to tell if you are anti-American or pro-American? I’ll look for a clip later when I come back.

Hilarious!

By Pat

October 21, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Your assumption - that both sides have an equal interest in “fixing” the system for fairness and access - is fundamentally incorrect. Our system seems insane to others who hear its mechanisms for the first time. When we “teach” developing nations how to have fair, representative government, we start with the premise of one man one vote - we do not advocate our own system. So why do we keep it? Because it works to the advantage of keeping the powerful few in charge - an advantage they will never willingly relinquish. Democrats always advocate making voting easier, as the rest of the world’s modern democracies do - easy registration done as you get your driver’s license, holding elections on weekends when more people can vote, public financing of campaigns. Republicans will advocate making it more difficult and screening as many people as possible out of the process, just as fascist regimes and oligarchies do. As “The colonel” so eloquently argues, people’s interests aren’t as important as land mass or state lines on a map. North Dakota’s miles of empty acreage deserve as much say in elections as miles of densely populated, bustling city and exurbs, right? And tiny Vermont should have equal power to states with many millions more people right? We wouldn’t want their feelings hurt. So what if millions more people vote in New York or Texas? What a farce. Face it, we were lucky in so many ways in our Founding Fathers - thank God the Puritans didn’t write the Constitution! But bottom line, they were landed gentry who felt blacks and women didn’t deserve rights, and were frightened of the power of ordinary people; and made sure our founding document took steps to limit their influence. Thus a “republic” - these brilliant but flawed men are the literal and spiritual fathers of today’s Republican Party. But forget the electoral college madness - it will never be changed. What’s so sickening today, is that the moral midgets who are today’s GOP go much further - not trusting the basic “shackling of the masses” written into our electoral process. Voter intimidation, roll purges, rigged or faulty machines, the appointment of GOP partisans to key state election supervisory positions - all tell the same sorry story. Today’s Repubs are “Banana Republicans,” skilled in the same election shananigans you see throughout Central America, South America and across the developing world. Abroad, when exit polls don’t match vote counts, the U.N. is called in. Here, it’s just another Republican victory. But to pull it off, the public must believe the race to be very close, within 1-2%. Only then are the results plausible. Anyone who really believes that the machine - the large, endlessly financed shadow governments that control the world’s banks and the mega-multinational corporations - would, once every few years, say, “Oh, what the hell. Let’s roll the dice - maybe give the other guys a chance” with billions at stake - is living in a fantasy world.

By Joey

October 21, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Bosch:

For evidence of Dims crying foul, fraud, or hanging dimple, recall 2000 and 2004 and every year in between.

Our US Congress has a long history (at least 40 of the 60 years I have been around) of failure to manage. Please keep them away from voter registration and verification.

By RealityKing

October 21, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Hey J, aren’t you done writting/coping that hit peice on “Tito the builder” yet? Surely your liberal marching orders have come down by now. Oh well, until you finish…, a teaser for the followers:

“Tito the builder.” A Colombian-born construction worker who took on reporters at a McCain rally for digging into Joe the Plumbers background after he questioned Obama’s proposal to raise taxes.

Watch out Tito! Here comes Kattie Couric!!

By ByteMe

October 21, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Corporal: wasn’t really singling you out. You had a “either you meant this or you meant this”. I was letting you know that #1 was what he was saying and #2 was definitely not what he was saying.

The term “bounds” was my shorthand in my last post. Trying to do this while supporting two customers in their tech problems, so maybe I’m not doing a good job being clear today.

By Dem Floundering Floppers

October 21, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

It cannot and will never be fixed as long as political parties give to voters anything other than what was intended in the constitution.

“[T]he Supreme Being gave existence to man, together with the means of preserving and beautifying that existence. He endowed him with rational faculties, by the help of which to discern and pursue such things as were consistent with his duty and interest; and invested him with an inviolable right to personal liberty and personal safety. Hence, in a state of nature, no man had any moral power to deprive another of his life, limbs, property, or liberty; nor the least authority to command or exact obedience from him, except that which arose from the ties of consanguinity. Hence, also, the origin of all civil government, justly established, must be a voluntary compact between the rulers and the ruled, and must be liable to such limitations as are necessary for the security of the absolute rights of the latter; for what original title can any man, or set of men, have to govern others, except their own consent? To usurp dominion over a people in their own despite, or to grasp at a more extensive power than they are willing to entrust, is to violate that law of nature which gives every man a right to his personal liberty, and can therefore confer no obligation to obedience.” — Alexander Hamilton

Today, much of the Framers’ original intent over the purpose of government in general and the federal government in particular has been lost after many years of the indoctrination of American citizens in the socialist dogma. Socialism maintains, among many things, the fallacious principle that government is responsible for the material welfare of society. Socialism claims that the government is responsible for the quality of human life, that the government is responsible for protecting “minorities,” and that it’s purpose is to be the beneficent provider of those under its jurisdiction. This principle is certainly attractive and sounds commendable and noble, but only one who fails to take into account the self-centeredness of human nature would enforce such a doctrine with good intentions.

I would resolve that the electronic ballots of tomorrow would require each voter to select the voting issues that they care the most about. Let’s say top 3 for starters. The voter makes his/her selections. Before the voter can submit the vote for being processed he/she must correctly answer multiple choice questions about their canidates stance on the issues they selected before. If they fail, they are deemed incompentent to vote for that candidate. I’d like it if lights and sirens went off as an extra public humiliation type punishment, but I think to not allowing that person to cast a vote for the canidate is good enough.

Drop the ACORNS!

By Billy

October 21, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

I don’t support the electoral college, Corporal, and the Senate is a big reason why. Small states wield disproportionate power in the Senate. Furthermore, we aren’t really a union of states anymore, regardless of our nation’s name. Our society has changed. Our state divisions would seem completely arbitrary to someone who didn’t know the history behind them. Sure, the states have their own laws, but for the most part life in one state is little different from life in another. How many people on the board live in the state in which they were born? How many have moved to another state for a job or school? Hell, our companies can sometimes pretty much dictate that we transfer to another state if we want to retain employment.

Now, I’m a big fan of protecting the minority from the will of the majority, especially when the country is as narrowly yet bitterly divided as ours is. I completely understand that we live in a republic, a representative democracy, not a true democracy. I have no problem with that. It would be impossible to run a true democracy where everybody votes on everything. We elect congress(wo)men to vote for us. I don’t think that counting the popular vote once every four years for the top spot in government is going to cause all hell to break loose, however. I believe the role of President is too important for the will of the people to be denied over what is, frankly, an archaic leftover from bygone days in which the states were far less connected, less trustful, and more independent.

Now, maybe you would like increased state independence. I would in some ways, I suppose. But the states today cannot function without a strong federal government. We are to intertwined with the world economy, too clear a target for foreign-born violence to survive as 50 separate entities.

And the individual states are so diverse internally that you might think you were in a different country 5 miles down the road. As the McCain campaign has so nicely pointed out of late, “communist” northern Virginia is not “real” southern Virginia. In all four candidates’ home states the current polling averages show about 4 in 10 support for the opposition. “Liberal” California is at about 40% McCain, too. Even reddest-of-the-Red Utah has 1 in 4 supporting Obama. The states are not homogeneous by any stretch, so to award votes based on state choices when at least 1 in 4 dissents? I dunno…Seems wrong to me.

Why not take it further? Each household picks a representative who meets to choose a neighborhood rep. These meet to choose town reps. Who chose county reps. Who choose state legislatures. Who choose the U.S. Congress, which elects the President. Why should individual citizens have any say at all?

By PinkoNeoConLibertarian

October 21, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Using population to determine amount of representatives each state has in The House—great!

Allowing each state equal representation in The Senate—great!

Using that same system to elect a single leader for the Executive Branch—stupid!

By Copyleft

October 21, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

States are allowed to set their own electoral processes, meaning reforms like proportional representation and instant-runoff voting (IRV) are entirely possible and achievable. Not to mention paper trails, code validation, etc., for a cleaner electoral process.

The problem is this: the two major parties have invested a LOT of time and effort in learning how to “work” the existing system, and are also the ones in charge of deciding whether to change it. Incentive for change: zero.

By "The Corporal"

October 21, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

To Pat & Billy

I respect your opinions but must disagree.

You really don’t want to live in a pure democracy. You wouldn’t like it. Being and staying a Republic is the only thing that has (and maybe will) hold us together.

One of the worst things that ever happened was when the election of senators was changed to a popular election vs. being appointed by the individual state legislatures as ambassadors to Washington from the states.

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.”

“A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.”

“From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”

“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years”

“During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

In my opinion we are already into #7.

By Keep it real!

October 21, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

To copyleft:

What an excellent observation! Both parties have learn to work at munipulating the current system and both will fight not to change the current system.

If we ever get an apportunity to lift up another party with elections we can make the Dims and Rep considered changing the current format!

Simply put we cannot trust a machine that can be easily changed at the flip of a switch. It is real disappointing to know that Diebold was allowed to sale these voting machines to our board of Election.

In west Virginia of all places in 3 counties they have discovered voting machines that are bugged. If you voted for Mr. Obama the vote switched to Mr. McClain.

That is really,really disappointing to know anyone vote can be change!

By "The Corporal"

October 21, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

To ByteMe

10-4 !

By Fixit

October 21, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

The voting process, logistics, and mechanism do not seem that difficult to correct; yet, here we are again, addressing voter fraud issues.

Why is it so difficult to have a reliable national standardized electronic system?

Why is it so difficult to mandate and enforce voter identification and be able to cross reference the name for accuracy??

By getalife

October 21, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

If we had fair elections based on the popular vote, w would never have been President. Our country would not be a mess and the economy would be booming.

Of course, Hillary would win this cycle but this primary was a joke.

This election will be close but in the end, it’s the economy again stupid for a dem victory.

By Midori

October 21, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

and yet Joey, who was the punk a@@ who went running and crying to the courts?

By Ed

October 21, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

A good start is to teach the fundamentals of equality. If EVERYONE shows a picture ID, how can that not be fair to all? How can it be racially slanted in favor of whites if all folks are required to do the same? Second, only one vote per dead person. Last but not least, crack the ACORN.

By "The Corporal"

October 21, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

P.S. to Pat & Billy

A couple of additional points:

1) Check this out …….. A just released Army Times Magazine poll of U.S. military career officers, enlisted personnel and retirees who subscribe to their individual branch (Army, Navy, Marines & Air Force) Military Times magazines shows McCain leading Obama for Commander in Chief by a huge margin of 68% to 23%. I find it pathetic that the great majority of those who spend an entire career willing to give their lives in defense of this country are outvoted by those who stay safely at home.

2) Our country was founded basically because of taxation without representation. We went to war over that. Now, we are at or beyond the point where 50%+ of the electorate do NOT pay income taxes. That is in effect taxation without representation as they can vote revenue for themselves.

How about a system (computers make this possible) based on your tax returns? The more income taxes you pay the more you vote counts.

For example, a person who pays zero income taxes has a vote of 1.

A person who pays $20,000 in income taxes has a vote of 1.2 and on up a sliding scale to a maximum of 2.

What say ye? If you believe larger states should have more senators shouldn’t those who pay more taxes have a stronger vote? Does everyone at a stockholders meeting have one vote?

Hummmmm ………………..

\

By RW-(the original)

October 21, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Will wonders never cease? I can’t believe Midori has finally gotten around to calling out that punk a$$ Al Gore for taking the 2000 election to the courts.

Welcome to reality Midori!

By Midori

October 21, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

speaking of punk a$$, Hi, RW.

um, the case was BUSH v Gore, moron.

By RW-(the original)

October 21, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Midori,

The first court case that led to Bush V Gore was filed by Gore. Even you are probably capable of looking it up, but if you need help just ask.

I’ll have to get it for you later though. Work beckons.

Later!

By Fly_on_the_Wall

October 21, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Corporal,

The idea of having a number of votes based on your income is truly Fascist. I’ve not heard something so stupid in years. In your system the government exists to serve business and the wealthy with anyone below a certain standard being left out in the cold - literally. They tried this in the last century and it was defeated - in WWII!

By "The Corporal"

October 21, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

To Fly on the Wall

Do you own stock ??

By Mad As Zell

October 21, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

We can all sit here all day and talk about election reform until we’re blue in the face, but nothing will work until we restrict the franchise to reflect the system of representative democracy in a federal republic that our founding fathers really intended. The BEST way to fix our deeply flawed system of voting would be to restrict the ability to vote to only those who were born and raised in America and own $100,000 of property and assets. Doing so would eliminate the undue influence of ignorant know-nothings and fringe radical groups (i.e., feminists, socialists, enemy combatants, etc.) that are pushing this nation to elect an illegitimate (in every sense of the term) marxist radical with an islamofacist background and ties to terrorists and Afro-supremists to the Presidency. Restricting the franchise to knowledgable citizens with an actual financial stake in our nation’s future and keeping it away from lazy, broke, ignorant know nothing parasites who only want a lifetime of endless taxpayer-funded handouts would do well to reform a voting system ruined by liberals in which way too many people are allowed to vote. Affirmative action has no place in the voting booth, especially when it comes to elections for representative democracy in a federal republic! There is NO right vote implicitly stated in the constitution. Voting is not a right, it is a privledge that should be reserved only for those who are knowledgable enough to have a serious stake in our republic.

By Shawny

October 21, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

I do not care if the feds mandate paper trails, etc. so that voting is uniform. However, only valid US citizens should be allowed one vote. It should be mandatory to show proof of citizenship and ID for your vote to count. This proof can be a single piece of identification, such as valid drivers license. If a person does not have this, then the state should validate citizenship and issue one for FREE. This way, there is no more crap…and it is all crap…about voter disenfranchisement. No poll tax. But no more of these voters hitting the rolls that don’t exist, have been deceased, etc.

And don’t tell me that if it is only 1-2% of the totals that it doesn’t make a difference. It makes a huge difference. States should be required to clean up existing voter rolls as people die or expat.

By Captain

October 21, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Here’s a novel idea on how to fix the voting issue. How about a W-2 showing you work or Property Tax bill saying you own property? You can’t vote for a Board of Directors of a company unless you own stock, why should a person vote if they aren’t paying, or have paid some form of tax? What about a photo ID? If you have to produce a photo ID to get through airport security, cash a check, or by a bottle of liquor why is it too much to produce one to vote?

The fraud is going on with the Acorn type groups and with the approving wink and nod of the Democrat Party. Obama’s campaign gave Acorn over $800,000 this year. For what? It wasn’t to buy groceries for the homeless, it was to “buy” votes, pure and simple.

By Mad As Zell

October 21, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Oh the irony!

Midori calling someone a moron? Isn’t that a little bit like the skillet calling the kettle black? You socialist idiots have really got some kind of nerve, you know. Are you idiots the ones on the verge of ruining this country forever by electing an Afro-supremist marxist with Islamofacist ties for President? You know the same guy who wants to extort taxes from the wealthy so that he can “spread the wealth around”.

By TN Gelding

October 21, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer

October 21, 2008 9:58 AM

Cheating is un-American.

I just don’t understand that mindset.

By SaveOurRepublic

October 21, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

“The Corporal” - Very valid points…especially regarding the U.S. being a (Constitutional) Republic…many sheeple simply don’t understand that fact. A “pure” democracy = “mob rules”, so we need to re-embrace the foundation of our great Republic instead of drifting towards a quasi socialist dystopia (long pined for by the Globalist Elite)!

Pat @ 11:24 AM - I’m not sure if you were giving a nod to the UN sticking their noses further into U.S. business, but (if so) the last thing we need is more encroachment on our sovereignty by that (or any other) international body. We need to veer far away from the UN, EU and especially the planned/forthcoming NAU/SPP. Also/FYI, the “Machine”/Globalist Elite control both sides of the same coin (GOP & DNC) at the “leadership” levels.

Regarding our elections…one key thing that can be done to eliminate these Diebold/PES electronic voting machines which can fairly easily rigged (and probably often are). I think standardization is essential as well.

By @@

October 21, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

If I may offer some alternatives…….

when substitutions are offered for the word a-s-s in order to bypass the ajc censor, could you guys, at least, consider any one of the following:

arse

azz

a$$

I’m thinking my a@@ is being targeted. J/K….blog on, but dress appropriately. Do not try to squeeze your size 22 into my size 6.

About your column jay — Fixing the Election

Where have YOU been? As long as the political parties need the voters, they’ll offer incentives to secure them.

Those who believe that government can fix their problems will vote democrat.

Those who believe government IS the problem will vote republican in the hopes that it is OUR strengths, not their weaknesses that will guide. With the exception of the immigration issue (maybe one other, can’t recall right now) that has not been the case.

Regardless, conservatives will NEVER succumb to more government largess or the democratic party that freely promotes it with their price tag trickling down to the Average Joe. The Average Joe does not, as they, the democrats do, view any citizen as inferior in intelligence or ability to warrant a Big Brother’s interference.

Our intention is to protect that which is rightfully ours until the federal government exhibits that they know how to budget themselves. Only then can I cast my vote fully confident that I have been heard.

By mike hussein smith

October 21, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Captain, you’re such a wuss. Driver’s licenses are easily faked; so are passports and tax records. Proper voter ID would include a blood test, an eye scan and a stool study EVERY TIME some pesky American shows up to vote.

By Mad As Zell

October 21, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Captain, I completely agree showing a W-2 would, at the very least, show that a person showing up to vote has a financial stake in our republic. Why should people who pay no taxes or very few taxes, like minimum-wage earning MORONS (see Midori), welfare recipients and the homeless be allowed to undermine our voting system by possible electing candidates that will keep and increase a system of government dependency thru taxpayer-funded food stamps, welfare checks, affirmative action home mortgages for those with bad credit (i.e., low-income fringe groups) and now universal healthcare. I don’t know if anyone has noticed, but healthcare is not a right for all people (low-income fringe groups and illegals). Healthcare is a privilege for hard-working citizens with adequate-enough incomes to be high contributors like everyone else. You want healthcare? Get a decent job and pay for it like everyone else and stop waiting for government handouts funded thru extortion of highly-productive hardworking people.

By E

October 21, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Obama LEADS McCain in donations from our uniformed military personnel.

(http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/mccain-edges-obama-with-military-donors/)

McCain is edging him out only because of large donations from people at the Dept. of Defense.

Obama/Biden ‘08

By Joe

October 21, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

I personnaly think Georgia should be a model as to how elections are run. We have touch screen voting and all voters must present a picture ID. Of course dems don’t like the picture ID format because it takes voter fraud out of the equation.

By lab technician

October 21, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

stool study EVERY TIME some pesky American shows up to vote.

“Get Out the Floaters”

By Mad As Zell

October 21, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Yes, the NY Times, as we all know it to be a very credible source of information, especially when it relates to our proud military personnel. Why should anyone who wants to be taken seriously, quote a NY Times article about the US Military? Any idiot gullible enough to believe a NY Times article about our military probably shouldn’t be voting. Period. The NY Times can’t be trusted as far as you can throw ‘em and anyone who quotes them as a credible source of info is an idiot with no credibility.

By Tailgater

October 21, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

The NY Times can’t be trusted as far as you can throw ‘em and anyone who quotes them as a credible source of info is an idiot with no credibility.

not to mention a boatload of credit and a lousy credit rating.

A bitter american clinging to the government for daily sustenance.

By LM

October 21, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Where in the world is Andy today?

Could it be that he is Mad As Zell?

By Mad As Zell

October 21, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

DeMOCKRAT equation: Voter ID minus No dead folks or illegals voting equals Fair Election or in other words: Election - voter fraud = landslide loss in November

Nobama ‘08

By E

October 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

CNN Host “Mystified” By McCain Camp Silencing Muslim Organizer

(http://www.newscred.com/article/show/title/cnn-host-mystified-by-mccain-camp-silencing-muslim-organizer-48fdfe2cbe91b/705749)

The McCain campaign is all about rallying the “low information” voter. They rely on keeping their voters as dumb as possible.

If they were to allow a Muslim supporter into the mix featuring him as a Muslim, it would be very confusing to their central message which is that Muslims can’t be trusted, that they may be terrorists.

Everything the McCain campaign does is to divide Americans and make them suspicious about anyone who is not a white Christian who embraces a fundamentalist doctrine.

They are creating a mob mentality. This man does not fit in that mentality.

Perhaps he will come to his senses and do a little critical thinking about the campaign he is supporting.

Obama/Biden ‘08

By Mad As Zell

October 21, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Appealing to the “low information” voter who isn’t capable of “critical thinking”…..

Isn’t that the centerpiece of the entire Oblahma campaign platform?

Miltary personnel, patriots and business owners for McCain versus brainwashed liberal elites, terrorist radicals, welfare recipients, low wage earners and homeless drunks and drug addicts for Obama. Looks like Oblahma has that “low information lack of critical thinking” thing down pat. Advantage: McCain

Nobama ‘08

By Joey

October 21, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Midori; Your angry and hurtful words do not become a caring Democrat.

By E

October 21, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

How about Gidget Palin’s tax on oil company profits so she could send a nice fat check to every Alaskan?

Isn’t that income redistribution?

Looks like a glaring example of “sharing the wealth” to me.

That Socialist Hussy!

Obama/Biden ‘08

By "The Corporal"

October 21, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

P.S. to Fly On The Wall

Short Personal Bio:

Born and raised in the U.S. U.S. Marine Corps combat veteran Worked way through college 34 years government service Scrupulous income tax returns Volunteer Charity work

Now …………. think of me as you will but I do not feel my vote for president of the United States should be cancelled out by :

A convicted felon (mulitple convictions) Current drug addict Non-contributor to society Registered by ACORN Driven to the polls by Democrat ideologs Told how to vote Encouraged to vote often (same day).

That’s just the way it is …..

By GodHatesTrash

October 21, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Too bad Corporal. That’s how it works.

By Mad As Zell

October 21, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Democrats, like Midori, aren’t caring. DemocRATS are uncaring, cutthroat, backstabbing slimeballs whose only mission in life is to extort money through sky-high taxes from hardworking American taxpayers and buy votes from fringe extremist anti-American groups in the form of welfare handouts. You know, FDR and LBJ’s NOT-SO-GREAT SOCIETY Welfare programs. Government dependency in the worst way!

By sherlock

October 21, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Vote early and vote often!

By "The Corporal"

October 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

To Mad as Zell

A little harsh but you’re in the ballpark.

Some of them do it in ignorance.

Like I heard today. Liberals are pack animals psycologically. That’s why they organize better and “get out the vote”. The leader moves and they follow.

Conservatives are individualistic and tend to work alone. That’s why we’re generally not big on demonstrations in the streets, etc.

By williebkind

October 21, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Am I a warmonger!! I can not wait for Obama H. B. to win!! Yeah!!! Nation against nation….women and children starving and diseased. He$$ yeah…and the liberals will not be blamed. The blame will fall on America…We will settle our domestic disputes mano a mano…I will take Jay…so nobody should get itchy fingers….yep Obama will not be Obama H. B. but Obama the S.B. In this deslote time liberals will be quiet…a little mouse scurring for food and shelter across broken glass and brick…ahhh but the liberal women will feast with the beast because she will use her natural given assets thus carring the liberal disease onward to new age….hey b*tch whacha got for me today….know what I mean….

By williebkind

October 21, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Am I a warmonger!! I can not wait for Obama H. B. to win!! Yeah!!! Nation against nation….women and children starving and diseased. He$$ yeah…and the liberals will not be blamed. The blame will fall on America…We will settle our domestic disputes mano a mano…I will take Jay…so nobody should get itchy fingers….yep Obama will not be Obama H. B. but Obama the S.B. In this deslote time liberals will be quiet…a little mouse scurring for food and shelter across broken glass and brick…ahhh but the liberal women will feast with the beast because she will use her natural given assets thus carring the liberal disease onward to a new age….”hey b*tch whacha got for me today!”, the beast says….know what I mean!!….

By HDB

October 21, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

The issue is not just voter fraud…but voter DISENFRANCHISEMENT!! Republicans want as few people to vote so that they can control the ballot box! Lest we not forget the purging prior to the 2000 Election in Florida by Brother Jeb and Katherine Harris and the subsequent SELECTION of Dubya by Daddy’s Supreme Court……and the 2004 disenfranchisement of over 60,000 minorities in Ohio by Bush’s crony, Kenneeth Blackwell….and the voters who were not allowed to vote in Missouri!!! If you cry about fradulent voter registration, also cry about the over 250,000 voters who have been disenfranchised in the past two presidential elections!!

By williebkind

October 21, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

By HDB October 21, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this “The issue is not just voter fraud…but voter DISENFRANCHISEMENT!! You are confusing voter fraud with those who do not properly follow the laws to vote. I know it upsets your liberal anarchy for your fellow liberals. But they too must follow the process…one is that they must be alive…two…they can only vote once…three they must be a citizen. Now you are complaining because someone or maybe 250,000 of your liberal comrades could not cast a ballot because…get this…they were not smart enough to follow directions…I know I know you liberals are intelligent and have all this education in education…but you have to follow the process…I am remaining confident that all Florida liberals have learned to cast a Florida style ballot…or NOT

By Billy

October 21, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Sorry, Coprophiliac, but if you read my original post you’ll see that I in no way advocated a true democracy. I advocated counting the popular vote when the top man or woman representing every American is elected. If he/she represents us all, then his/her election should be through popular vote. Presidential election. That’s it. It hardly makes for a true democracy.

And the idea that liberals/leftists/democrats/whatever are sheep who will do anything their leaders say? Seriously? Look how all you right-wingers embrace the “ACORN is evil” party line, even though McCain himself 2 years ago gave the keynote address at an ACORN function, an address in which he said that ACORN was what was GOOD in America. Even though ACORN is required by law to submit forms they know to be fraudulent. Even though ACORN has gone above what is required by flagging falsified forms for the authorities and turning in the workers responsible.

Come off the cross.

By TN Gelding

October 21, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

I think we could start improving the system by purging most of you contributors. Just kidding! Thanks for exercising your freedom of speech.

By Copyleft

October 22, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

Bud: Liberals are pack animals psycologically. That’s why they organize better and “get out the vote”. The leader moves and they follow.

Really? That’s your argument now? What do you call the Religious Right and its millions of fanatical followers who “got out the vote” over and over again over the past three decades for the Republican Party that regularly ignored their issues?

C’mon, you can come up with more plausible lies than that.