Home > Jay Bookman > Archives > 2008 > October > 15 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThat debate was really something
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Well, that was fascinating. The most entertaining and informative debate in the series. The American people got a real sense of the differences between these two men. Schieffer did a very good job as moderator.
My own sense is that Obama carried the day, but that’s to be expected. The test of the debate will be how the American people respond to what they heard, because both men laid out their version of our country’s future pretty plainly and succinctly. The question is which version the people of America find more convincing.
The most surreal moment, of course, was the discussion of William Ayres, etc. McCain’s segue from bashing Obama in deeply confrontational and personal terms to his claim that his campaign was focused on the economic plight of the American people — well, that was special.
Now come the Libyan parrots (see tomorrow’s column).
UPDATE, 11 p.m.: After a few minutes to absorb it all, I think McCain’s performance was in a sense both a concession to Obama in this general election yet an honorable rallying of the Republican base to its basic principles. He told the American people that he is willing to win or lose on the basis of conservative principles, even though the truth is that under these circumstances, he will probably lose because conservative principles just aren’t all that attractive to voters at this point in our history. After eight years of Bush, that approach has lost all credibility.
And that’s not McCain’s fault.
UPDATE II: In CBS’ snap poll of 638 undecided voters (how they found that many uncommitted voters I’ll never know)”
“Fifty-three percent … identified Democratic nominee Barack Obama as the winner of tonight’s debate. Twenty-two percent said Republican rival John McCain won. Twenty-five percent saw the debate as a draw.
More uncommitted voters trusted Obama than McCain to make the right decisions about health care. Before the debate, sixty-one percent of uncommitted voters said that they trust Obama on the issue; after, sixty-eight percent said so. Twenty-seven percent trusted McCain to manage health care before the debate; thirty percent said so afterwards.
Sixty-four percent think Obama will raise their taxes, while fifty percent think McCain will. Before the debate, fifty-four percent thought Obama shared their values. That percentage rose to sixty-four percent after the debate. For McCain, fifty-two percent thought he shared their values before the debate, and fifty-five percent thought so afterwards.”
I’ve been leery of those snap polls, but in the previous two presidential and one vice presidential debates, their findings have been validated by later poll work.
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Comments
By David
October 15, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
What a vast improvement for both men from the last two debates. I wasn’t sure if McCain ever mentioned Obama’s name during the whole debate, but at least he didn’t say “that one.”
It was telling to see McCain still focused so much on character attacks (Ayers). I have to wonder what that looks like to the independents.
By JR
October 15, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
I think Obama is going to win in a landslide and within a year you won’t be able to find anyone that will admit voting for him!
By Goldie
October 15, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
Now the real work begins… we go out and hit the streets, getting all our thousands of new voters to the polls by Nov. 4th.
Obama\Biden ‘08— The sun will shine brighter in January ‘09!
By "The Corporal"
October 15, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
Jay
The question is NOT which version the people of America find more convincing. People can be convinced sometimes to do really stupid things. This shouldn’t be a popularity contest or who is the best speaker or even who is the best debater.
The real question is which version is best for this Republic.
By AmVet
October 15, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
In my estimation, McCain “won” the debate by a very small margin. He won the opening rounds, lost the later ones and his close was better.
But down the stretch, he simply shot himself in the foot too many times.
He made that strange choice of Sarah Palin to placate the nitwits on the lunatic fringe. Which was really stupid, since he probably already had those sheep in his corner. And he did NOT convince the American people that he is no George W. Bush, the biggest albatross in American political history. And that he would not govern like him.
And of course, his own party did not help him much at all, as I truly suspect the Rove elements still don’t like him for being a moderate, a maverick, a RINO.
The worst of the “base” will vote for him, but VERY begrudgingly and only because they loathe the mulatto, not because they like or respect McCain.
I may be wrong, but I think it is game, set match for Sen. Obama.
By getalife
October 15, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
“Obama: I’m happy to talk to you, Joe, too, if you’re out there. Here is your fine: Zero.
McCain interrupts: Zero??
Obama: Zero. You won’t pay a fine because as I said in our last debate, and I’ll repeat John, I exempt small businesses from the requirement for large businesses that can afford to provide health care to their employees who are not doing it. I exempt small businesses from having to pay into a kitty.”
Thanks Obama.
By CJ
October 15, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
McBush was like a pouty kid throughout the debate! His tactics were: evade the issues, talk about “Joe the plumber” 400 times, to squirm in his chair, and playing Boogie Man with scare tactics.
If you believed every word McBush said, you would think Obama was a unpatriotic, terrorist baby-killer. REPULSIVE!
Obama/Biden ‘08!!!!!
By TN Gelding
October 15, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
John Sydney McCain III does not have the demeanor to represent the United States of America on the world stage. Period. If you liked the impish Bush, you’ll love him.
Obama wins the debate(s) and the White House. But please, keep the drapes. We can’t afford to replace them.
Futures are down, but only about 1/2%
By jon
October 15, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
We are in a recession. We have had many before. The President of the US does not cause recessions and does not fix recessions.
We will be out of the recession in 2009, no matter who wins the November election.
Remember this 4 years from now.
By getalife
October 15, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
Hillary is spinning for Obama on all the networks.
By McHater
October 15, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this
as usual McDumb avoided the issues, if you really want to give us a scoop, whats up with that growth on his face?
By karlene morgan
October 15, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
I think Mccain just wanted to bash Senator Obama. He was talking about deals that Obama made that he could not prove. He was only talking about things that he hoped would make Obama look bad and the real issues that we are facing took a back burner. Mccain health care policy will put this country in a worst place than what we are already in.
By TN Gelding
October 15, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
jon
October 15, 2008 10:56 PM
A year from now the markets will be at all time highs and the economy will be growing if not booming. Get on board!
By Tom
October 15, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this
Well now. Obama is sooo bright and polished and knowledgeable. Fighter Pilot Hero came across precisely as he is: an angry little would-be thug, trying to be patronizing, but failing even that. Is it any wonder that he was at the bottom of his class at 22 different schools (Read his books!)- and that’s prior to the bottom of his class at Annapolis and Pensacola (See “Naval Archives.) Hero McCain is a bitter little blend of Joe The Plummer and Joe SixPack! I love it. Ignorance in action.
By JOE THE PLUMMER
October 15, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
C’mon Tom! Don’t put me on the same level as Joe SixPack OR McShame.
By G
October 15, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this
Obama won all 3 debates.
He’s absolutely brilliant!
McCain’s old, grumpy, confused, etc.
Obama/Biden ‘08
By Dagny and John's Love Child
October 15, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
By CJ
October 15, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
McBush was like a pouty kid throughout the debate! His tactics were: evade the issues, talk about “Joe the plumber” 400 times, to squirm in his chair, and playing Boogie Man with scare tactics.
If you believed every word McBush said, you would think Obama was a unpatriotic, terrorist baby-killer. REPULSIVE!
But he IS an upatriotic baby-killer who IS REPULSIVE that does pall around with terrorists - and gets alot of money from the as well.
So, what is your point?
By Stew
October 15, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
I am Canadian eh, I like Obama, I think he will be good for all of you there in the US. I am jealous we didn’t have a candidate like him here in Canada.
By cg
October 15, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Screw you idiot liberal democrats. You say…. “I’m gonna vote for Obama, 1. cause I’m black and a brotha is gonna be my pres 2. cause I’m white and it’s cool to be votin’ for the black guy. Just like our little children dressin’ with the baggy pants and sideways hats and listening to that rap. Cool Cool Cool., AND STUPID! Get a grip you fools, he’s a socialist, the first step to communism.
By It's all over
October 15, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
300 million people and McCain is the best the Republicans can do. Will another Reagan type ever step up. God, any of the other candidates would have faired better than McCain.
Biden will be president. Watch and probably the reason he accepted the VP role.*
By getalife
October 15, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this
Check out the brain on cg.
Tell me genius, what you call bailing out Wall Street with your money?
Could it be uh socialism?
Try some new ideology idiot.
By ND
October 15, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this
Debates are usually decided not based on the issues themselves but by the way the candidates carry themselves and present their points of view. In that sense I thought McCain won easily, and I’m a left-leaning Libertarian.
By Original Rick
October 15, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this
How can any female vote for this guy after he pulled the air quotes on the “health” of the mother when it comes to an abortion. He just admitted the fetus is the all important issue, everything else be damned.
In other words, if Our Dear Sarah’s life had been in danger at anytime during her pregnancy, only the child would have mattered. Remember that she was in Texas when her water broke. Gov Rick Perry advised her to stay and have the baby there. She stubbornly got on the plane, had a transfer, and arrived in Alaska around 12 hours later. In the world that McCain wants, Perry would have had the authority to detain Our Dear Sarah and force her to give birth there, her desires being completely ignored.
And I shake my head in disbelif whenever I see a “Women for McCain” sticker.
By Dagny and John's Love Child
October 15, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this
Obamunism is alive and well. “spread the wealth”? Let’s rob the doers and give to the losers - is that all he has? Why do you guys hate successful people so much? Are you that envious, that you will destroy your country so that you don’t have to look in the mirror to see why your lives suck so bad?
By getalife
October 15, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
Are Dagny and John brother and sister?
Geez.
By Tom
October 15, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
CJ: What the hell would you know about “socialist”??? Oh yeah, and look all around you! See the zillions of white trash rednecks who have for decades now lovingly imitated their/your hated black brethren by daily wearing “baggy pants, and sideways hats and listening to rap.” And using “bro” and “dude” and “hood” and “ho.” But cannot even “do” that correctly. Those freaks are YOUR people, YOUR bros. And outnumber the black folks by many, many millions. Are you blind - as well as grossly ignorant?? My, but you intellectual insects are up late tonight.
Be careful - lest I dispatch an entomologist ta…gitcha!
By Michael H. Smith
October 15, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this
I will have to take issue with you Mr. Bookman on just how plainly and succinctly both men laid out their version of our country’s future.
Both these men disappoint me with the number one priority in their energy policy as it relates to the future job creation, wealth creation and strategic security of our country.
While Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain correctly identified achieving energy independence as “quintessential to all the other issues”, what is plainly and succinctly absent from either of their plans is the requirement of U.S. Citizen Labor first and foremost being employed in these new jobs; with the inclusion of U.S. Citizen Labor being used first and foremost to build all the necessary supporting infrastructure.
Will either Mr. Obama or Mr. McCain make the commitment to U.S. Citizen Employment first and foremost in every job that will be created in achieving energy independence?
Also, “if”, before any foreign national can be employed in any of these new energy jobs, will either of them commit to requiring that before any employer can hire a foreign national to do one of these new energy created jobs, that the employer will have to show proof that no U.S. Citizen is willing or able to accept the job offering at prevailing wages?
Will either of these two gentlemen commit to a job training program dedicated first and foremost to train U.S. Citizens workers to fill these new energy related jobs of the future?
I know Mr. Obama is wrong on his support for café standards. He should be pushing for cars that are multi-fuel hybrid electric. Toyota is working to bring just such a car to market presently. Energy diversity (using all of the above) is the path that leads to energy independence and security. On that mindset I don’t trust either candidate or either party to actually deliver.
The debate wasn’t really much at all on the rest of the issues. Both men still carry their respective party lines. This is not about which one of them win, rather it is about will America win.
By Dagny and John's Love Child
October 15, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
By getalife
October 15, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
Are Dagny and John brother and sister?
Geez.
Geez, read a book already and you can figure out who Dagny and John are- it’ll do you some good - oops, this one doesn’t have any pictures, but it’s pure prophecy - Atlas Shrugged -
By Original Rick
October 16, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
It’s all about the future. Of course, the fetus should be considered. I was just playing with my previous comments. Is anybody hiring out there? I’m just looking for something where I could work a little on my own schedule until Obama gets in and I get my entitlement for breathing…I mean the middle class tax cut.
By SoaringDisbelief
October 16, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
@cg
Like getalife said, the wall street bailout that both candidates supported was socialism. Socialism is not necessarily a bad thing. All of the top ten countries in the Human Development Index, a measure of standard of living, are socialist to a greater or lesser extent. The US is not in this group. It would not hurt our country to adopt some socialist policies, such as universal health care.
By Chris
October 16, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
So, Jay how many times do you plan to vote?
By getalife
October 16, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
‘Angry McCain’ At Final Debate Already Famous On YouTube.
The leader of the hate party has issues.
THREE FOR THREE CBS, CNN, FOX INSTANT REACTION… OBAMA TROUNCES MCCAIN.
Game over.
By TN Gelding
October 16, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
Dagny and John’s Love Child
October 15, 2008 11:33 PM
If you have such a wonderful life what are you doing here?
Reagan and Bush are responsible for $9 trillion of the $10 trillion national debt.
The interest on the debt is $400+ billion.
By gttim
October 16, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this
Obama was flat, but he still “won.” He nailed the answer on abortion- not being pro-abortion and all for reducing abortions through education. He won talking about the future and telling us what he is going to do.
McCain did better, but still his explosive anger was visible on his face and in his body. He failed to understand that attacks on his policy positions are fine, but attacking a candidate personally is not. There is a big difference, and McCain/Palin is attacking personally. Does he think Palin’s youngest has autism? He has Down’s Syndrome. McCain kept talking about how Palin knows about autism! BTW, special needs mothers in Alaska do not like Palin, and she has done nothing for them in the past.
McCain looked like the friendly squirrel at the end. He was running around shaking everybody’s hand and being everybody’s best friend. I guess his campaign mentioned how bad he looked last debate.
By Dr. R
October 16, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
If Joe the Plumber comes on TV tomorrow and says he’s voting for Obama, it’s over. Hell, it’s over anyway. McCain’s best line was after Obama brought up Bush and he said “I’m not Bush. If you wanted to run against Bush, you should have run four years ago.” But it was too late to make that point after Obama’s been hammering the “four more years” point home for so long. Ballgame.
By Midori
October 16, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
must…..have……BRAINS!!!
By changed my mind
October 16, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
I was leaning Obama, but McCain won this one on the economy and taxes. I’m voting McCain.
By TN Gelding
October 16, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Dagny and John’s Love Child
October 15, 2008 11:59 PM
How much are you earning on your CDs and Money Market account?
Low interest rates are great when you’re borrowing money; not so great when you’re saving it. Many of the truly wealthy had a higher net income under Clinton even with higher tax rates.
By whatever
October 16, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this
Yeah no media bias here:
“Obama weathers McCain Attacks”
Headline of the AJC web page. Read it. What does it say to you? Can you see that the media wants to elect the next president. This is no different than the Polit Bureau and Stalin or Hitler or Hussein.
True objective journalism in America is DEAD.
WHO ARE NOW THE OPPRESSORS? WHO IS NOW IN CONTROL? ASK YOURSELVES LIBERALS. HAVE YOU BECOME THAT WHICH YOU ONCE REVILED?
By Not so fast
October 16, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this
Is it just me or does it seem that Democrats ALWAYS “win” debates? If I remember correctly, the talking heads had Bush “losing” all his debates to Gore and Kerry…look how those elections turned out. The point is that these things are a mere formality and don’t really change peoples opinion at this point in the game. They are only useful tools in primaries where if you can form alliances with other candidates against your main competition, as McCain and Obama did, you can gain an advantage in winning the party’s nomination.
By ajc-sucks
October 16, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this
Hire some real reporters you slack a* idiots. No wonder print journalism is dead. Actually, most of the tv media had one foot in the grave as well.
By fredmars
October 16, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
Dagny and John’s Love Child,
Live with it - reality and the Bush/Paulson pseudo-conservative, pseudo-Republican forces have relegated Ayn Rand to the junk heap of irrelevant philosophical history. Get over it — or not. I could care less.
It’s a sorry philosophy that assumes the potential for moral business behavior. IIRC, one of her principles was that among the most important roles of government is to assure the “sanctity” of contracts. And that fits with the right-wing-nut anti-regulation policies how?
Bye-bye - your time is gone - the dream fades - as always, reality wins.
By jbv
October 16, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
How can you give a tax break to 90% of the people when 40% of the people pay NO TAXES? I dont understand Obamas logic here. Does that mean if you dont pay taxes your gonna get a tax break? How can that be? or does he plan to just send you money? thats welfare isnt it? Im confused.
By i like obama
October 16, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this
shut up you rednecks! you like bush!
you are bush plus infinity!
By fredmars
October 16, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this
Whoa fredmars, that made a lot of sense. Pack another bowl dude. Obviously, you don’t actively participate in the economy.
By Cathy
October 16, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this
Obama was excellent in this debate. John McCain was as grumpy as ever. To all of the people that think that the middle class is looking for a free ride, we are not looking for a free ride. We are not losers, and we get up and go to work every day just like wealthy folks. The only differences are that we are over taxed and over burden. While the wealthy few have been given too many tax breaks over the last 8 years. Therefore, please get it out of your silly minds that we are looking for a free ride. We believe in personal responsibility just like you, but it will be really nice to finally have a president that will put the middle class first and not just a select wealthy few.
By i do like bush
October 16, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this
I never turn down bush.
By fredmars
October 16, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this
[By fredmars
October 16, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this
Whoa fredmars, that made a lot of sense. Pack another bowl dude. Obviously, you don’t actively participate in the economy.]
Actually, I’ll being paying more under the accurate interpretation of Obama’s policy. Always glad to contribute to the education of the disadvantaged children - such as yours. :-)
By me too
October 16, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this
i guess mccain and obama can live in harmony.
By bob
October 16, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this
I wish i had pencil thin mustache.
By GodHatesTrash
October 16, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this
When did John Galt move to a trailer park?
By bob yoob
October 16, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this
ohhhh. and trashy swoops from her perch.rooo ha ha!
By brad
October 16, 2008 3:14 AM | Link to this
CJ:
The irony is probably lost on you that, while you accuse others of voting along racial lines, it’s obvious that your the one with some kind of racial hang-up, given your little diatribe on fashion and music. The fact is that the most influential forms of American music (blues, jazz, rock), all have their roots in African-American culture. In the 50s, people were saying the same sort of things about rock ‘n roll that you’re saying today: that “black music” is unfit for “decent” white kids. It sounds just as weak now as it did then. Believe me, if we could send you back to the 50s, we would.
By Peter
October 16, 2008 4:50 AM | Link to this
I think McSame lost points for not wearing a lapel pin (oh, and picking Sarah as his running mate).
By Just_Me
October 16, 2008 6:05 AM | Link to this
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/
Apparently, Joe the Plumber isn’t even registered to vote.
So, why should I really care about what someone, who apparently hasn’t voted ever-or in a verrrrrry long time-thinks?
People who don’t avail themselves of their right really oughtn’t complain when things aren’t going the way they want….
By AJC/DNC Management
October 16, 2008 6:08 AM | Link to this
Unfreakingbelievable:
Libyan parrotry is a sad, tragic use of the freedom of speech that so many have fought to preserve, but it has come to epitomize our nation’s political discourse. The parrots you see on TV aren’t there despite their refusal to speak honestly and independently. Too often, that dishonesty and message discipline are job requirements -kookman, Urinal
Are we talking about ourselves?
Of course not:
Going into last night’s debate, for example, this cycle’s reigning king of Libyan parrots has to be former New York Mayor Rudy Guiliani. After the vice presidential debate, he told interviewers that Palin delivered one of the best debate performances he had ever seen.
So kookman, can we call you a Fever Swamp Parrot?
By AJC/DNC Management
October 16, 2008 6:14 AM | Link to this
Here’s democrat governance at it’s very finest:
Mayor has plan to fix city’s finances, Franklin proposal: Pay consulting groups $850,000 to improve department performance.-Urinal/DNC
Add to your deficit!
By AJC/DNC Management
October 16, 2008 6:22 AM | Link to this
Many Hillary Clinton Supporters Now Backing John McCain
As Barack Obama tries to do back-room deals with the Iraqi leaders on U.S. troop withdrawal agreement (click for article). As Joe Biden, his running mate, raves about how paying higher taxes is a patriotic thing (click for article). Yes, Obama’s inexperience and wrong choice for running mate are showing.
Evidence of this is shown in recent polls in key battleground states, Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, which indicate that 25% of Hillary Clinton supporters plan to vote for John McCain.
McCain 08/ Hillary 12
By AJC/DNC Management
October 16, 2008 6:27 AM | Link to this
Barack Obama holds a 7.3% lead in the Real Clear Politics average of all polls, but the latest Gallup tracking poll reveals that there are nearly twice as many undecided voters this year than there were in the last presidential election. The Investor’s Business Daily/TIPP poll (which was closest to the mark in predicting the 2004 outcome — 0.4% off the actual result) now says this is a three-point race.
This week also brought a reminder that Sen. Obama hasn’t closed the sale. The Washington Post/ABC poll found 45% of voters still don’t think he’s qualified to be president, about the same number who doubted his qualifications in March.-Rove Monster, WSJ
By AJC/DNC Management
October 16, 2008 6:30 AM | Link to this
Cribbing from Hillary Clinton’s playbook, Mr. Obama called this week for a “90 day foreclosure moratorium for homeowners that are acting in good faith,” whatever that last phrase means. When Mrs. Clinton proposed a foreclosure moratorium during the Democratic primaries, Mr. Obama had said it would lead to more expensive mortgages going forward. He was right then.
These ideas reveal that Mr. Obama thinks economic growth derives mainly from growing the government. They merely redistribute money taxed or borrowed from the private sector to favored political constituencies. At least Bill Clinton sold his tax cut in 1993 as a way to reduce the deficit; Mr. Obama is proposing to take federal spending to heights not seen since the early 1980s. If this is his agenda to spur recovery, no wonder the stock market is tanking.-Wall Street Journal
By spankmonkey
October 16, 2008 7:12 AM | Link to this
Bush did lose all those debates technically. But the media had prepared the public beforehand, setting expectations so low for Bush, that just by showing up and finding the right door in to the debate hall, he was declared a winner.
And you idiots voted for him, not once… but twice…
By Hmmmmm
October 16, 2008 7:39 AM | Link to this
Pure angry people, you libs…. I think somebody mentioned “atlas shrugged” These libs wouldn’t understand the concept of that book. They will vote for a guy who promotes class warfare, and be angry there whole life. It’s really very funny. If for some odd reason Obama is elected, these will be the same morons who will b*** and moan the loudest about how bad things have become! WHAT A JOKE! I still have FAITH that the sane people of this country will still vote the better of the two options, which is OBVIOUSLY McCain/Palin.
By Hmmmmm
October 16, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this
Cathy
What in the world! Please wake up and smell the coffee! The first thing Obama will do is roll back all President Bush’s tax cuts. Know think about what that means to all the middle class folk! AN IMMEDIATE TAX INCREASE! Good Grief Please inform yourself about these candidates before you VOTE! The wealthy people of this country PAY the MAJORITY of ALL the TAXES! How long do you think this country can survive when you continue to burden the people that make this country GROW! YOUR MAN IS A SOCIALIST AT BEST! If that’s ok with you, then go ahead and vote for the guy. Yikes, you libs are truly the educated elite…..
By Say What?
October 16, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this
Going into the debate, John McCain had two choices: take the high road and debate the issues, or take the low road, capitulate to his campaign handlers and to his rabid right-wing base, and launch into attack mode for a few cheesy votes. As he has done time and time again, John McCain took the low road.
Tells me how he would handle the presidency. Bipartisanship would, once again, be eschewed in order to appease the Sean Hannity-types in the GOP.
Screw that.
Obama proved that refusing to lower himself to the level of his desperate assailants makes him altogether more presidential. Mr. McCain, you are too fine a gentleman to have succumbed to the wrong elements of your party. You turned an opportunity into a farce. Go home to Arizona, and heal thyself. You have failed in your final, more important mission.
By paisana
October 16, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this
Just saw an interview(on NBC) with Joe the plumber. He seems a lot smarter than Joe the Biden and what he has under his fingernails is a lot cleaner than what’s under John the Lewis’s.
By Copyleft
October 16, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this
Heh… All McCain can do is launch more personal attacks and complaints, because he has nothing else to offer America.
And America got to see that, one final time, at last night’s debate. Who’s the man with a plan? President Obama? Who’s getting increasingly angry and desperate as it all slips away? Johnny McWhatsisname.
By williebkind
October 16, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this
Copyleft: It sure is exciting watching people drool over someone who is going to turn our freedoms into socialist programs. I will vote for McCain/Palin. YOU read and repeat whatever fits your ideology and it usually has nothing to do with whats good with America. You can not get Bush off your mind. You are stuck in the past and have not looked at what you are asking for the future. I hope you have a good job and a low mortgage. Of course you will get to kill more babies and save more dogs. I will be here using every loophole I can find to keep my own money but I expect you to donate more of your paycheck every payperiod. It is only fair. You have to do it to show up Bush.
By Skeptic Tank
October 16, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
So John McCain says that 100% of Obama’s television ads were “attack ads”. Folks, let’s get one thing straight: a politician is permitted, and even encouraged, to attack the record and policies of his or her opponent. What McCain FAILED to mention is that Obama has not engaged in the PERSONAL attacks so favored by the rabid right.
Secondly, since you Rush Limbaugh-types seem to have seized on the buzzword “socialist” during this election cycle, let’s remember that the conservative cause immediately disfavors the poor AND the middle class, and lavishes its gifts upon the rich and big business. Since most of you are most likely middle class, your diatribes against yourself are remarkably inane. Check out Sean Hannity’s, or Rush Limbaugh’s, or Neal Boortz’s annual salary, and you’ll quickly understand why THEY are so opposed to the wealthy getting socked for higher taxes. THEY are not creating jobs. THEY are turning you into their foot soldiers in a war against yourselves.
By Lord Help Us
October 16, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this
My Goodness! I have not been around here in a while, but nothing seems to have changed…sigh…
I see the village idiot and the usual suspects (didn’t they despise McCain not too long ago?) still put party over country.
Face it! The Republican party has earned its scorn. Empty ideology, incompetence, hypocrisy, but, a legion of useful idiots that will carry their water no matter what.
Nope, the GOP had its chance. The Whitehouse for 20 of the last 28 years, along with the Congress for 12 of the last 14 years. And, where has that gotten this country?!?!?!
10 trillion in debt, an economy in shambles, deficits as far as we can see, a stronger, more influential, nuclear capable Iran, N. Korea acquiring and testing nuclear weapons, no closer to peace b/ the Israelis and Palestinians, deteriorating conditions in Afghanistan, a war of choice in Iraq that will haunt our conscience and the taxpayers of the country for decades, politization of the justice dept., torture of human beings…My Lord, I could go on for hours!!!!
I will relish the results this Nov. 4. These INCOMPETENT, IMMORAL charlatans and the weak minded dimwits that enthusiastically support their each and every blunder will soon be vanquished.
The grownups will arrive, as they did in 1992, and our great country will begin its recovery.
By gadem
October 16, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this
Russians in Alaska
By Please Vote
October 16, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this
I feel like Obama’s character was seen in what he didn’t say as much as what he did say. For all the talk about Ayers, Obama never mentioned Keating, and he could have. That is character, and that is why I will vote for Obama.
By The Snark
October 16, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
If Ayers is an issue, then maybe we ought to talk about all those weekends that Cindy and John McCain spent at Charlie Keating’s vacation home, right before he was convicted of fraud and stuck the taxpayers with the multi-BILLION dollar cost of bailing our Lincoln Savings & Loan … but I guess that’s old news, huh?
By mike hussein smith
October 16, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this
Atlas Shrugged is crap literature.
By Dagny and John's Love Child
October 16, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this
TN Gelding - I like hanging here because most of your sides arguments crack me up - I don’t put alot in CD’s as they return is abysmal - I put most of my cash in tax liens as the returns are pretty much guaranteed AND protected -
God Hates Trash - about trailer parks - are you suggesting that the trailer trash entitlement / middle class america are active Ayn Rand readers and supporters of McCain? Gosh, I hope so - the argument will then be over.
I am no lover of John McCain, and I certainly count W among the most disappointing votes I have ever cast - That does not mean that a socialist who doesn’t understand any economics (other than stirring up wealth envy) and has embraced communist groups and professors in school (per his first book) refuses to salute the flag (until it has become politically expedient to do so), says he is going to accept public money (until it became advantageous to not do so), and is married to a woman who until her husband decided to run for president had apparently never been proud to be an American is the answer.
I know you want to elect a black man - I know you think he will be on your side - and he may be - so long as you believe that the government needs to care for your every need, that you should be absolved from all personal responsibility, and you think that encouraging small business owners to shrink their business to get under the tax cap by cutting employees is going to help.
I understand that I am just one business owner and that my fellow entrepreneur friends are just a small fraction of all those that own small businesses in America (there are about 24 million small business here), but I know that at our last breakfast, fully 100% of us agreed that if O is elected we would be paring back until the tide turns back to a more favorable business climate - which will result in probably 30-45 layoffs - not even a blip on the radar, but I am sure it will be tragic to those families -
I will assure you that I know which of my employees are O supporters and I will also assure you that they will be the first to go - they have the most to do with it, so they should feel the cuts first.
By Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
October 16, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this
I am a documented Obama supporter as evidenced by previous posts in JB blogs.
The Ayers issue struck a chord and hit home. How could Obama hang out with Ayers, or for that matter, Wright, or Jess Jackson, et al.. and not share their views to a large degree. That conerns me.
I think the American public just does not know about Obama and will not trust him with the presidency. I will not vote for Obama.
By The Snark
October 16, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this
Dagny and John’s Love Child:
Dude, you are setting yourself up for one hell of an employment discrimination lawsuit. You better hope no one can trace that blog name back to you!
By the finger
October 16, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Hey AJC/DNC Management, can’t you do anything better than cut-n-paste? you are a fine example of the brianless, original AM-radio puppets that pollute political dialogue. you should just stick to name calling. or just enjoy your inevitable fade into cranky obscurity.
By TeriJ
October 16, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
The Feds need to trace Dagney and John’s Love Child.
Says he’s going to fire those who voted for Obama. Think I’ll contact the Feds myself.
By dw
October 16, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
Obama is a much more eloquent speaker than that of McCain. But just because you speak well doesn’t mean that you will honor what you say or what you say is truely what you wish to accomplish in reality. On the flipside, it doesn’t mean you won’t or don’t. Do not vote just based on speaking ability. If you truely like his platform, then maybe. I don’t believe in his socialism platform. Does he have some good ideas. Probably some. His spoken platform aside, I think people should still be nervous of Obama, due to all the “anti-American” influences that have been associated with him. The years with “Rev” Wright; the teachings of Ayers, however brief or not; early years in a country not noted for being pro-American, … Maybe he has been able to push away the American hating ideas that have been presented to him over time. In my opinion, somewhere in his psyche they are present, atleast to some degree. The only one that knows Obama’s intentions, is himself. All those people that say he is a good man. Maybe he is, but there is no way that you truely know him. I prefer that this country never finds out either way.
By Dagny and John's Love Child
October 16, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
Snark - I’m not scared - GA is a right to work state - I can basically fire you if I decide I don’t like your tie - most of my Obama supporters work in the inside tele-sales department - I will simply shut it down - that’s easy…
By thogwummpy
October 16, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
Two debates in a row now; Obama has said that “only a few percent of small businesses have revenues over $250,000.” In fact, he’s said “98% don’t” and another time he said “95% don’t” have that much revenue. YET, all one has to do is go to the Small Business Administration website, access their statistic tables and observe right there that the MAJORITY of small businesses have revenue over $250,ooo! Go ahead—-LOOK IT UP! Obama is just a flat out liar that will say anything to fool the majority of people. Small businesses (particularly that file taxes under subchapter S), are going to get double hammered by Obama, who is going to raise tax rates on them…AND, reverse the Bush tax cuts. Think folks, that’s a double whammy! As such, small businesses will be forced to LAY OFF WORKERS so they can pay the Obama tax. I wish to God that Jay Bookman would do some honest research, and would tell you the truth about Obamunism!
By CommunistAJC
October 16, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Love her or hate her she is absolutely right. In EVERY election since Carter, the media has had democrat presidential candidates winning by large margins.
EIGHTY-FOUR PERCENT SAY THEY’D NEVER LIE TO A POLLSTER
by Ann Coulter
With an African-American running for president this year, there has been a lot of chatter about the “Bradley effect,” allowing the media to wail about institutional racism in America.
Named after Tom Bradley, who lost his election for California governor in 1982 despite a substantial lead in the polls, the Bradley effect says that black candidates will poll much stronger than the actual election results.
First of all, if true, this is the opposite of racism: It is fear of being accused of racism. For most Americans, there is nothing more terrifying than the prospect of being called a racist. It’s scarier than flood or famine, terrorist attacks or flesh-eating bacteria. To some, it’s even scarier than “food insecurity.”
Political correctness has taught people to lie to pollsters rather than be forced to explain why they’re not voting for the African-American.
This is how two typical voters might answer a pollster’s question: “Whom do you support for president?”
Average Obama voter: “Obama.” (Name of average Obama voter: “Mickey Mouse.”)
Average McCain voter: “I’m voting for McCain, but I swear it’s just about the issues. It’s not because Obama’s black. If Barack Obama were a little more moderate — hey, I’d vote for Colin Powell. But my convictions force me to vote for the candidate who just happens to be white. Say, do you know where I can get Patti LaBelle tickets?”
In addition to the social pressure to constantly prove you’re not a racist, apparently there is massive social pressure to prove you’re not a Republican. No one is lying about voting for McCain just to sound cool.
Reviewing the polls printed in The New York Times and The Washington Post in the last month of every presidential election since 1976, I found the polls were never wrong in a friendly way to Republicans. When the polls were wrong, which was often, they overestimated support for the Democrat, usually by about 6 to 10 points.
In 1976, Jimmy Carter narrowly beat Gerald Ford 50.1 percent to 48 percent. And yet, on Sept. 1, Carter led Ford by 15 points. Just weeks before the election, on Oct. 16, 1976, Carter led Ford in the Gallup Poll by 6 percentage points — down from his 33-point Gallup Poll lead in August.
Reading newspaper coverage of presidential elections in 1980 and 1984, I found myself paralyzed by the fear that Reagan was going to lose.
In 1980, Ronald Reagan beat Carter by nearly 10 points, 51 percent to 41 percent. In a Gallup Poll released days before the election on Oct. 27, it was Carter who led Reagan 45 percent to 42 percent.
In 1984, Reagan walloped Walter Mondale 58.8 percent to 40 percent, — the largest electoral landslide in U.S. history. But on Oct. 15, The New York Daily News published a poll showing Mondale with only a 4-point deficit to Reagan, 45 percent to 41 percent. A Harris Poll about the same time showed Reagan with only a 9-point lead. The Oct. 19 New York Times/CBS News Poll had Mr. Reagan ahead of Mondale by 13 points. All these polls underestimated Reagan’s actual margin of victory by 6 to 15 points.
In 1988, George H.W. Bush beat Michael Dukakis by a whopping 53.4 percent to 45.6 percent. A New York Times/CBS News Poll on Oct. 5 had Bush leading the Greek homunculus by a statistically insignificant 2 points — 45 percent to 43 percent. (For the kids out there: Before it became a clearinghouse for anti-Bush conspiracy theories, CBS News was considered a credible journalistic entity.)
A week later — or one tank ride later, depending on who’s telling the story — on Oct. 13, Bush was leading Dukakis in The New York Times Poll by a mere 5 points.
Admittedly, a 3- to 6-point error is not as crazily wrong as the 6- to 15-point error in 1984. But it’s striking that even small “margin of error” mistakes never seem to benefit Republicans.
In 1992, Bill Clinton beat the first President Bush 43 percent to 37.7 percent. (Ross Perot got 18.9 percent of Bush’s voters that year.) On Oct. 18, a Newsweek Poll had Clinton winning 46 percent to 31 percent, and a CBS News Poll showed Clinton winning 47 percent to 35 percent.
So in 1992, the polls had Clinton 12 to 15 points ahead, but he won by only 5.3 points.
In 1996, Bill Clinton beat Bob Dole 49 percent to 40 percent. And yet on Oct. 22, 1996, The New York Times/CBS News Poll showed Clinton leading by a massive 22 points, 55 percent to 33 percent.
In 2000, which I seem to recall as being fairly close, the October polls accurately described the election as a virtual tie, with either Bush or John Kerry 1 or 2 points ahead in various polls. But in one of the latest polls to give either candidate a clear advantage, The New York Times/CBS News Poll on Oct. 3, 2000, showed Gore winning by 45 percent to 39 percent.
In the last presidential election the polls were surprisingly accurate — not including the massively inaccurate Election Day exit poll. In the end, Bush beat John Kerry 50.7 percent to 48.3 percent in 2004. Most of the October polls showed the candidates in a dead-heat, with Bush 1 to 3 points ahead. So either pollsters got a whole lot better starting in 2004, or Democrats stole more votes in that election than we even realized.
By gayle
October 16, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
In a month, a question will be whether Obama won the election or McCain lost it.
I submit that starting with his pick for VP - the transparent attempt to pander to the right wing - we saw that McCain would sell his soul to win this election.
Follow that with the “suspension” of the campaign to rescue the Rescue and finish it off with the tried and true political act that if you can’t win on the issues, attack, attack, attack!
It is a shame that even now, George W. continues to hurt us. Because it was his campaign in South Carolina in 2000 that permanently derailed the “Straight Talk Express” and denied all of us the John McCain who could have been a very good president at a very difficult time in this country.
By SARAH PALIN
October 16, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
I can see Russia from under John McCain’s desk…pe ew…dam John your diaper is full, it is hard to go down on you with a full depends
By TN Gelding
October 16, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Dagny and John’s Love Child
October 16, 2008 9:19 AM
That 24 million figure is misleading.
I applaud you for being willing to take on the red tape that running a business requires. Not to mention the personnel problems. Do you have a helath insurance plan for your employees?
By Dagny and John's Love Child
October 16, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
TN - the 24 million dollar is accurate - so long as you expand your definition of small business to include every single person who applies for a business license - You are accurate that if you look at the number of businesses the number drops - pretty significantly - which is why Obama can say the vast majority of small businesses make less than $250K - but those DO NOT employ others…..
You are right about the red tape and the personnel problems - I think the only reason anyone really goes into business for themselves is that they find the are unemployable by anyone else - in my case, I am missing the filter between my brain and my mouth and I say what I think -
We do have a plan - and I reimburse for copays and non-covered procedures (up to 10% of base salary) to further offset costs - I also match contributions 50% of all contributions up to 12% - AND, I have a profit sharing program with my employees - 20% of all corporate profits are distributed based on shares that are voted on by the rest of the team - also, 10% of corporate profits go directly to charity.
That being said, I would rather dictate where my money goes that being told by someone else where I have to send it - One issue is that small businesses with revenue of up to $3M or so can actually manipulate the the numbers to actually earn less than $250 - which is what we will have to do - which means profit sharing will go way, way down - hurting the employees that don’t get cut.
By Ellis St. John
October 16, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
I’m an Obama supporter who calls it like I see it. Issue-wise (excluding tired rhetoric about Ayers and ACORN), McCain actually had a few valid points last night. However, his problem is his body language and his temperament.
A few words that come to mind regarding McCain: - Angry - Ill-tempered - Curmudgeon - Cantankerous - Immature (multiple interruptions) - Annoyed - Acerbic - Irritated - Bitter - Hateful … the list goes on
Are these really the traits that we want in our next president? We have a tough road ahead of us and we need a steady hand on the tiller. Not some hot-headed idealogue who governs from passion instead of pragmatism.
By John J
October 16, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
The last time we tried the neophyite approach was J.Carter. For those of you who don’t remember, think 20% inflation and unemployment that averaged over 7.25% for his four years. Obama consistetly says this is the worst economy since the great depression—not even close. I guess he got his information from Biden who quoted FDR’s speech on TV after the stock market crash. (FDR was not President and TV had yet to be invented)
By TN Gelding
October 16, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Dagny and John’s Love Child
October 16, 2008 10:56 AM
Good for you!
The reason I asked is Obama is going to pick up half of your insurance cost.
By fugitaboutit
October 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Shut up already. The victory party’s already planned, get over it. Get your money offshore, then quit your job or retire and become one of the “poor” who will benefit from the redistribution of wealth. All you celebs who support the new socialism (the bridge between capitalism and communism), your paycheck is mine now! Have fun hocking all your bling to support my new American Dream lifestyle. You got what you paid for, enjoy!
By Keep it real!
October 16, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Can someone explain how a woman can get a plane after her water breaks?
It is absolutely funny to read comments from fugitaboutit that rich people are going to stop making money because they are being taxed at a higher rate.
I for one am going to make more money so I can off-set the tax increase!
What kinda of stupid do you take the American people for?
Rich people will continue to make money and find additional ways to not pay a tax increase.
By CommunistAJC
October 16, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Ellis St. John, And Barack Hussien?
A few words that come to mind regarding Obama: Hidden agenda, socialist, sell-out, racist, hates whitey, inexperienced, never votes on anything other than present, pals around with terrorist, ACCORN community organizer, thinks there are 58 states, voted to kill born babies, race baiter. Shall I continue?
By old91A10
October 16, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
polls, perceptions, and even votes are mutually influential, both rising and falling.
frequently, they can be influenced or seeded by some other conditions or events — seemingly big or small.
acorn played a part in this, and might be the component responsible for whatever edge obama seems to have retained.
an extreme number of fraudulent voter registrations by democACORNrats is a two edged sword that cuts in only one direction. they will produce fraudulent votes for obama. and, they already contribute to a perception of popular support that is not really there. sheep will follow an apparent (tho fraudulent) leader/winner, which will produce some real additional votes.
eight years of bush is a big one. but, mccain is not bush, and he certainly overcame that to have garnered the support he has.
mccain/palin were certainly helped by the disgracefulness of the dnc and disgusting history of obummer (while else the sealed records, transcripts, etc.) — in spite of the obscene amount of money democRATS have dumped into this campaign.
i voted for mccain/palin for their positive attributes, and equally for the many negative ones of obama/biden.
Ayers, Dohrn, Farrakhan, Wright, Pfleger, Caldwell, McClurken, Daley, Lippert, …
Rezko, Blagojevich, Auchi, Johnson, Raines, Pritzker, Groelich, Axelrod, Gibbs, Dunn, (Susan)Rice, ….
Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Hoyer, Reid, Frank, Schumer, Brazille, Dean, ….
[Racists, Misogynists, Elitists, Miscreants, and Worse]
i wouldn’t p*ss on anyone of them, even if his/her hair were on fire!
By Keep it real!
October 16, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
To Comm:
Can you please tell us what Senator Obama agenda is?
Since you are all knowing and all seeing!
You made a comment on Monday the stock market is up and the economy all is good
Now the market has been down the past 2 days and the credit market is still very tight!
Come on great Commu swami tell us something else so I can bet against it!
By CommunistAJC
October 16, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
Keep it real!, Yeah, his plan is SOCIALISM! Understand now? Shall I learn you some more?
By Hmmmmm
October 16, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
Ellis, passion instead of pragmatism. I just love the elite literate liberals! Your statement is brilliant! Yeah, I want a slick double talking suit that has never done anything to prove he is ready to be our President. A slick talking suit that tells you libs what you want to hear, and all you sheep fall right into line…… Bah,bah,bah….. One thing that you forgot to list about McCain. He is an American HERO. I will take passion over SOCIALISM anytime!
By Youngblood
October 17, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
The President of the United States should be one who is for his country and his people.
You are free to think but first think of the consequences before clicking that button.
60% of us are taxpayers while 40% are not. Alarming, isn’t it? Obama wants to give stimulus checks to everyone. Now, think about this for just a minute…where will that money come from? The money will be from the 60% of the people who pay taxes and do we really want to give anything to the 40% that don’t contribute(except for the elderly, of course)
About Healthcare, Obama said…Keep the plan you have and the doctor you have. If it were that easy, the company you are working for would not have to frantically search every year for upcoming year insurance plan because they are not sure that the current plan will keep them. Why? Because we can’t pick our own insurance, insurance companies pick us.
Before jumping on any ship, think people. Liberal, Conservatives, Left Wingers and Right Wingers - Who cares! We eventually will be on the same ship. This is the time to CHOOSE CAREFULLY. Go deeper than your brain cells. Think about your children generation and beyond. Think outside yourself, for once.
The current economy is not just Bush’s fault. It’s our government fault; to include Congress and Senate and local governing bodies. We don’t have a totalitarian leadership. Everything has check and balance. It’s easy target to just blame one person.
Educate yourself and think before that fateful day; when we have a chance to select one of the 2 men to become our leader. Neither of them are perfect but pick the better one. One who will protect our country from terrorists, one who will protect us in a time of hardship and one who will make important decisions for us and one who is REALISTIC.
By Youngblood
October 17, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
The President of the United States should be one who is for his country and his people.
You are free to think but first think of the consequences before clicking that button.
60% of us are taxpayers while 40% are not. Alarming, isn’t it? Obama wants to give stimulus checks to everyone. Now, think about this for just a minute…where will that money come from? The money will be from the 60% of the people who pay taxes and do we really want to give anything to the 40% that don’t contribute(except for the elderly, of course)
About Healthcare, Obama said…Keep the plan you have and the doctor you have. If it were that easy, the company you are working for would not have to frantically search every year for upcoming year insurance plan because they are not sure that the current plan will keep them. Why? Because we can’t pick our own insurance, insurance companies pick us.
Before jumping on any ship, think people. Liberal, Conservatives, Left Wingers and Right Wingers - Who cares! We eventually will be on the same ship. This is the time to CHOOSE CAREFULLY. Go deeper than your brain cells. Think about your children generation and beyond. Think outside yourself, for once.
The current economy is not just Bush’s fault. It’s our government fault; to include Congress and Senate and local governing bodies. We don’t have a totalitarian leadership. Everything has check and balance. It’s easy target to just blame one person.
Educate yourself and think before that fateful day; when we have a chance to select one of the 2 men to become our leader. Neither of them are perfect but pick the better one. One who will protect our country from terrorists, one who will protect us in a time of hardship and one who will make important decisions for us and one who is REALISTIC.