Jay Bookman

By jasper

September 16, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

Your spot on with this one. You can’t let it collapse, but you wish you could. Their existing executives and board of directors should be required to provide 25% collateral on the loan, until its paid off.

By getalife

September 16, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

Flipped flopped on more corporate welfare.

Are they trying to drown it in a bath tub?

I think they are.

By RW-(the original)

September 16, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

I’d love to comment on topic, but this is four in a row. If an al Qaeda detainee at gitmo was forced to keep Grrenspanspeak at the forefront of their mind for 18 hours then I bet this column would call it torture in the worst degree,

Goodnight!

By Davo

September 16, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, and Ralph Nadar of all people have seen this coming for a long time. Guess what…they also saw the bailouts continuing. The Federal Reserve ( which is neither federal, and has 0 in reserve) needs to be disbanded pronto. These guys are not only looting our nation but setting the entire planet up for economic ruin. Neither Obama nor McCain have the will to do it…only libertarian candidates speak truth to this utterly unlawful organization. Fact…22 cents of every dollar is owed to foreign debt; these bailouts cost the fed nothing because its just another loan they take out from the chinese and from printing more money and driving the value of the dollar down.

By Hillbilly Deluxe

September 17, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

Privatize the profit, socialize the risk.

I seldom agree with you Jay but you’ve hit the nail on the head with this one. Since the Fed keeps handing out all this money, what is the liquidity situation with the Fed now? I don’t understand all this high finance but I’m assuming they have to have some liquidity. If so it’d have to be taking a pretty big hit right now.

Irony of ironies, just today I got a letter from AIG wanting me to switch my vehicle insurance over to them. Yeah right.

AIG’s stock has dropped over 80% in 2 days from what I hear. The AIG stockholders are taking a big hit but what about the guys running the company?

I will readily admit I don’t like banks but I really don’t like bailing them out. Years ago banks were formed to provide a service to the community. Sure they were in business to make a profit but you knew they’d be there awhile. Nowdays they are opened to stay in business so they can sell out in 3 years and make a killing for the people who started the bank. I’ve been involved in several of these mergers as a customer and nothing good has ever come of it for me.

All these big banks get bailed out yet if Joe Average is one day late with a credit card payment he gets hit with a $30-$40 late fee, no matter if this is the first time after years of paying on time.

The problem as I see it is too much trying to make money by shuffling paper instead of producing a product or offering a service. And don’t kid yourself if this thing goes down it won’t just be the U.S., the whole world will go with it. Just like the 1930s.

This situation has been coming on for at least 20 years and both parties get a healthy share of the blame. Too many bills are basically written by lobbyists.

I watched a PBS program tonight on Andrew Jackson. He saw in the 1830’s how the financial sector could influence the economy. He was a visionary it looks like now.

That’s my rant for the night I guess.

By jay thompson

September 17, 2008 2:34 AM | Link to this

Jay,

You were one of the liberal whiners years ago that called for making these loans to folks that could not pay them back.

Your liberal buddies (in the late 90’s) caused these problems.

Government, by assuming the Fannie and Freddie risks, led to these decisions by private industry.

GOVERNMENT is and was the problem. The geniuses on Wall Street acted in their self interest - true, but in a system set up by the government to reward the wrong behavior.

-J

By SPUD

September 17, 2008 2:48 AM | Link to this

Jay;

You got it 100% right. The government bailout should be accompanied by stiff financial penalties and/or jail time to those who managed these companies. It should not be a free ride on the backs of the American people. The transfer of risk from the private to the public sector has costs and payments are due.

Also, much stricter oversight, as well as new rules and regulations are needed to ensure we keep the US financial system in good state of repair and limit our future risks.

By AJC/DNC Management

September 17, 2008 5:19 AM | Link to this

Looks like Lehman should have been giving all their campaign contributions to the Repugs instead of to Oblahma.

Some good that did them.

By AJC/DNC Management

September 17, 2008 5:36 AM | Link to this

Look at this joyous little pinko:

When ordinary Americans began to lose their homes several months ago, conservatives were quick to denounce them for being too stupid to understand a simple mortgage or too undisciplined to know how to live within their means. The right-wing talking heads had a field day denouncing plumbers and painters, teachers and personal trainers threatened with foreclosure: They’re idiots! They’re losers! They’re suckers! -Queen Pinko, Urinal

Sick.

In.

The.

Head.

By Taxpayer

September 17, 2008 6:33 AM | Link to this

These “people” in these financial institutions are playing with the livelihoods of millions and millions of real people with their bets and risk taking. When you make a mistake in a $60 trillion market of unregulated swaps of funny money, the consequences can make or break entire countries. These “people” asked for the freedom to play games with trillions of dollars and people like Phil Gramm were more than happy to oblige. Yet, the SIck Arrogant Greedy Asses continues. Then, we have Andy to snap us all back to reality. Good morning, Andy.

By AJC/DNC Management

September 17, 2008 6:55 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer: Just one question, if the economy of the United States is on the verge of collapse, as you like to say, why are you libs bursting with joy over it?

By Taxpayer

September 17, 2008 7:00 AM | Link to this

Andy, if your assumptions and corresponding question were true and made sense, respectively, I might be able to formulate an answer for you.

By Taxpayer

September 17, 2008 7:15 AM | Link to this

Good morning, Jay.

I, for one, cannot think of a better testimonial for taxing the rich. Somehow, 50% just doesn’t seem like nearly enough though. We need to build a wall of shame as well, using some of their wealth to pay for it. It needs to list all these executives and directors and lawyers that made those millions off the backs of others. This was hardly the fault of the greedy little homeowner given the fact that these financial geniuses claimed to not need oversight from no steenking lowly earth scum in the first place.

By N-GA

September 17, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

Both Banks and insurance companies were required to maintain reserves using ratios stipulated by government.

Where things went awry was the decision by government to allow those reserves to be invested in something other than “safe” investments like t-bills.

Instead, banks and insurance companies sought higher yield investments. When these investments went south, they became illiquid…unsellable…nearly worthless.

Senior management of these institutions should bear the brunt of the blame for this fiasco. They made these excessively risky investments because they wanted to achieve earnings that would trigger large bonuses.

Greed! The ugly side of capitalism. You will never see the people who caused this mess brought to task for it. In certain other countries, it would only take a single bullet….

By TW

September 17, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this

Corporate WELFARE.

AS long as it doesn’t go to help the hardworking American….

BTW - the McCain Camp is engaged in an all out attempt to rewrite the last two years of Alakan history????????

By Paul

September 17, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this

Spkr Pelosi reminds me of the kid who’s always in the thick of things. When the adult (voter) steps in and asks “who did this” the autoresponse is “Not Me!”

Link: [Pelsoi orders Wall Street and Administration, not Congress, Probe]*(http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13514.html)

Rep Barney Franks is all about ‘looking forward’ - no kidding, given his record in this.

I am really concerned about the outcome of having an old-school machine politician like Spkr Pelosi and an Obama administration. With McCain it’d be partisan politics as usual between the Legislative and Executive. With Obama we’d have the promise of change colliding with the protector of power. Obama’s proposals could well be killed or heavily modified by his party’s leadership for straying too far from their orthodoxy (see moderate Pres Clinton for an historical example). “Change” is what applies to the other guy. What will that do to the people go looked forward to hope and change? Stronger cynicism than now?

Jay, your last paragraph was a beaut. If there’s one topic that brought out bipartisan agreement, this was it.

Oh, the House energy bill - no offshore drilling withing 50 miles. Great policy. I did rather the same - took in some Ike evacuees who’d been without food for a few days. Told them they could eat whatever they found in the house. Just stay out of the kitchen.

By Herman

September 17, 2008 7:55 AM | Link to this

You are right. I heard someone on the radio this morning say that if there was a Dem in the Whitehouse, Republicans would be screaming. We should be screaming now but the party won’t. That’s why every time the national party calls me for money I holler about them not getting any money until they grow some cajones. They just don’t call anymore. Go figure.

By Larry

September 17, 2008 7:58 AM | Link to this

A reporter on TV just said most people never heard of AIG. Evidently, most people are equally ignorant of the Federal Reserve Bank, which is government entity that operates as a private corporation.

There is NO congressional funding… Zip… Zero… Nada… There are NO taxpayer funds involved. Got it?

It’s NOT your money, dear taxpayers – so go back to sleep.

By Paul

September 17, 2008 8:00 AM | Link to this

G’morning, N-GA,

Excuse me if I’ve said this to you before -

A few years back I went to a reunion. Spoke with a classmate who lived in Manhattan. I asked him what sector he was in, said he was pretty much an analyst. Was rather reticent. I pressed, after a while said his job was to devise new methods for getting funds available to people for mortgages when other methods had run their course. I asked him the long-term implications and he shrugged and said ‘look, I get paid well, my employers and investors are looking for return. My job it to make that possible, so we have to expand the pool of people eligible with new methods…”

It’s Wall Street. Of course there’s greed. That’s a given. But as you said, it is the ugly side.

Heard a story that Chinese gov’t bills the family for the the bullet. Makes a statement, doesn’t it?

By TW

September 17, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

So, all questions for the office of Alaska’s Governor are now handled by the McCain Campaign?

Are you kidding me?

Where’s the Republican outrage??????

By hillbilly ragger

September 17, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

Clearly, we need a blue-ribbon commission to study the economy, in order that John McCain might some day understand it.

By Mrs. Godzilla

September 17, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this

Economists Support Obama Over McCain By More Than 2 to 1

No surprise there!

By Paul

September 17, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this

Link: Pelsoi orders Wall Street and Administration, not Congress, Probe

And I know, I know, it’s Rep Barney Frank, not Franks.

hillbilly ragger,

‘bout two days ago, campaign speech, McCain said he understands the economy, was head of the Commerce Committee.

Great example of why politicians are reluctant to admit to any weakness, even if it means realizing there is always more to know. As has been pointed out, the comeback line is “Sen Obama, do you know all there is to know about foreign affairs? Health care? Environment?” Those are silly questions but are what follow from such gotcha politics.

By N-GA

September 17, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

Paul,

Thanks…you clearly got my point. Quite frankly I expected a broadside from some others accusing me of being a communist or something. So far I’ve been pleasantly surprised.

As far as the AIG loan, the stories I’ve read so far indicate that the government will own about 80% of AIG. Further info said the loan rate was more than 800 basis points above prime…a steep premium, but not surprising considering the risk. My question is “Is the price of the loan an equity stake AND repayment of principal and interest?”.

By Taxpayer

September 17, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

What’s the matter, Paul. You don’t think that turnabout’s fair play. Drill, baby, Drill. I think the Democrats are way past due to throw some of that pandering crap back at the Republicans. Neither party is clean and it’s high time for the Democrats to put some of the holier-than-thou Republicans in their places. I want to see those gloves come off across the board. Let’s get that laundry aired.

Now, get busy and pass out those Cue cards and pom-poms to the loyal Republican cheerleaders. What other moves you got.

By hillbilly ragger

September 17, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

TW @ 8.03, for comparison purposes—when the Dem’s Veep got herself into a bit of trouble during the ‘84 campaign, Geraldine Ferraro stood up and took questions from reporters for three hours during a press conference.

Anyone here even capable of imagining Palin doing such a thing? Anyone?

By Copyleft

September 17, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this

Mrs. G: Actually, that does surprise me. Most economists are still stuck in the Freidman mode of laissez-faire and worrying about an “efficient marketplace”—you know, one where the wealthy have all the power and the middle class doesn’t exist.

It’s surprising to me that ANY mainstream economist would favor a more pro-human, pro-American platform like Obama’s.

By Taxpayer

September 17, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

So, Larry says the Fed has a money tree and we don’t even have to buy the fertilizer for it. What a load of crap.

By N-GA

September 17, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

Paul,

BTW, I think Pelosi + Influence = Fear of the Known” regardless of who is running the government. I’d rather have a loose cannon rather than her. At least we would have some hope that the outcome could possibly be good.

By Bud Wiser

September 17, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this

I have some pretty good reasons why the economy continues to struggle mightily……..

Robert A. Brady D- Pa, Chairman, Committee on House Administration

Brady has been an unwavering advocate for legislation that supports the well-being of financially disadvantaged communities. He has sponsored or co-sponsored legislation that promotes affordable housing….

Barney Frank D-Mass, Chairman, Committee on Financial Services

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, need I say more?

Barack Obama D-Ill, number 2 behind Chris Dodd D-Conn, for campaign and other contributions from Fannie and Freddie. Yesterday calls current conditions “the worst since the Great Depression’. I guess he forgets other small items like a nearly 50% market drop after the Nixon-Agnew resignations, or 23% annual inflation rate under Jimmy Carter, accompanied by collapse of real estate markets around the country, S&L’s, etc. Economic Idiot.

Charles Rangel D-NY, Chairman, House Ways and Means Committee

Not only no significant legislation passed through this committee since 2006, but none, zip, nada, zero

Chuck Schumer D-NY, Chairman of Joint Economic committee

Lifleless committee with no significant legislation (that was passable) since he took chair

Nancy Pelosi D-Ca, Speaker of the House

Runs around screaming “I’m trying to save the planet, then she helps push a drilling bill that passes the House but will most likely fail in the Senate; which is it Madame Speaker? She is the band leader of this pathetic excuse of losers and do-nothings in Washington.

And there are pathetic losers here and elsewhere that want to put that kind of leadership in the White House? I’d laugh if it were funny, but it is not, to see that kind of idiocy and masochists with a death wish for America that is based on pure class and wealth envy. But then again, class and wealth are two traits sorely lacking by garden variety Democrats. Oh, your party elite have plenty of wealth of their own, but they are supposed to aren’t they, while the sweating masses are only good for keeping them in power?

The idiot left continues to allow themselves to take the whip on the back from their masters at DNC and Obama hdqtrs, as they whelp ‘may I have more please, sir?”

I an LMFAO at you morons.

Obama/Biden ‘08 - making it easy to be stupid

By Just_Me

September 17, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

Where is the public outrage???

Doesn’t anyone question where this 85 billion is coming from?????????

People-despite what your party affiliation, despite your choice of candidate, despite where you want to lay the blame-and there’s enough to go around to EVERY person who had a hand in this-the bottom line is this…

We don’t have enough money to properly fund education, infrastructure, this never-ending debacle in Iraq, health care—but somehow, just SOMEHOW, we’re going to go along with 85 billion dollars in corporate welfare?!?!?!?

Yes, I understand free market, capitalism, blah blah blah.

The bottom line is this….how the HELL are we paying for this? Are my sons’ children, and their children, and their..oh you get the idea-going to be paying for this?

What a legacy we leave behind.

Again-I place the blame squarely on everyone-no one’s clean in allowing this crap to happen repeatedly-but personally, i think that the fools who ran AIG, and who made the disasterous decisions should fund the bailout…let their generations of heirs foot the bill instead of ours!

:::whew::: better now. Happy Wednesday.

By hillbilly ragger

September 17, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Right, wingers. It’s obviously the fault of Congress. Good luck with that. Particularly with your unenviable task of convincing Americans that Nancy Freaking Pelosi actually runs America.

Hey, I’ve got a slogan for your feeble-minded little team:

Palin/McCain: Count on us to make the economy go t!ts-up!

By AJC/DNC Management

September 17, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

By N-GA September 17, 2008 7:32 AM Greed! The ugly side of capitalism. You will never see the people who caused this mess brought to task for it. In certain other countries, it would only take a single bullet….

N-GA: I didn’t have time earlier to comment on this idiocy because I have been greedily bargain shopping stocks this morning. I see a fat sell off in the making, low end probably about 140 or so. Then we buy!

But anyway, you are sick in the head, my goodness, check it out, you take the time to whine about “greed” but then, in your greed for federal tax dollars, you advocate shooting people in the head.

Go see a shrink, dude.

Russian markets stopped trading for a second day after emergency funding measures by the government failed to halt the biggest stock rout since the country’s debt default and currency devaluation a decade ago.

So how many skulls you think are getting popped in Russia this morning, Russia being y’all’s little socialist paradise?

You want to talk about a massive economic failure, behold another Berlin Wall that is falling before you very eyes.

Russia is going to be small and pitiful before this week comes to an end.

By "The Corporal"

September 17, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

To Jay

I couldn’t agree with you more. And those “executives” will continue to get rich over this.

Federal law should be changed so that the top management of any of these huge financial corporations being bailed out by the taxpayers should NOT be able to receive any type of “golden parachute” compensation.

By Denise

September 17, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

This just in - Housing construction falls in August to lowest level in 17 years.

My husband’s in construction and been out of work for a little over 7 months.

Obama & Biden in ‘08.

By AJC/DNC Management

September 17, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

By Denise September 17, 2008 8:47 AM This just in - Housing construction falls in August to lowest level in 17 years.

Hey Denise, did you hear about Ike?

Duh.

By Taxpayer

September 17, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

Just_Me,

The Fed is accepting IOUs from the children of your unborn children. Meanwhile, the executives and directors and lawyers from these financial institutions, that are sticking us with the tab, are laughing their asses off at the United States of Suckers. On top of that, they have even sold the Republicans on the notion that they should not even pay taxes on their ill-gotten gains. They remind me of a saying that I heard many years ago while I was still working in corporate America. It went something like, The trick is to make them think that yellow stuff falling on their heads is just warm rain…. (I won’t repeat the rest of it that I recall.)

By Just_Me

September 17, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Denise- I am truly sorry…we went through the out of job thing back when Bush I was in office…months on end with no job in site…and I was pregnant when my husband’s company went belly-up, to boot!

I know so many people who are in construction…many have lost their own homes-as construction truly hinges on the economy/housing market (yep, Queen of the Obvious this morning…).

My husband works for a HUGE communications company…since they merged, o/t has been cut with the exception of emergencies; his p/t job that he’s held with a major ‘home improvement’ chain has cut his hours back to, in one week, 2 hours!

I am a wee bit luckier…people don’t stop having kids, so I have job security…

Good luck, hang in there!

By McSame

September 17, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Denise,

Quit yer whining.

bwa.

By Just_Me

September 17, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Denise- I am truly sorry…we went through the out of job thing back when Bush I was in office…months on end with no job in site…and I was pregnant when my husband’s company went belly-up, to boot!

I know so many people who are in construction…many have lost their own homes-as construction truly hinges on the economy/housing market (yep, Queen of the Obvious this morning…).

My husband works for a HUGE communications company…since they merged, o/t has been cut with the exception of emergencies; his p/t job that he’s held with a major ‘home improvement’ chain has cut his hours back to, in one week, 2 hours!

I am a wee bit luckier…people don’t stop having kids, so I have job security…

But, our old buddy, McCain will have you believe that the ‘fundamentals’ of our economy are solid…does HE even know what that actually means? No solid ground in these shifting sands, as you well know. I don’t know of a single family living in our middle-income area who are not struggling.

Good luck, hang in there!

By @@

September 17, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

Jay:

Knowing what your column would be about, I wanted to bring you breakfast in bed. Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News

You’re sleeping on a lumpy mattress arent’cha?

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

I find the responses here pretty amusing.

The so-called conservatives are blaming Congressional Democrats for failing to properly oversee and impeding oversight of this mess.

But the entire conservative fiscal premise is to eliminate government regulations and oversight and let the market do it’s business without government interference.

Anyone else find this amusing?

By Goldie

September 17, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

I believe that $85 BILLION is about what America is spending for ONE MONTH to occupy IRAQ these days? So maybe the billions are better spent trying to shore up our financial markets vs. going down that sinkhole in the Middle East!

Save America: Bale out AIG — and bale out of IRAQ!

By Goldie

September 17, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

McBush\Failin— “Building Our Bridge to Nowhere For America!”

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Goldie, it’s $10B per month for Iraq.

By JAY BOOKMAN

September 17, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

“DENISE: This just in - Housing construction falls in August to lowest level in 17 years.

AJC MANAGEMENT: Hey Denise, did you hear about Ike?

Duh.”

Hey Management, did you hear that Hurricane Ike didn’t hit until SEPTEMBER?

Duh indeed.

By hillbilly ragger

September 17, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Jay, I see your pal Jim Wooten’s strategic political answer to this latest crisis is to repeat Sarah Palin’s lies and hope nobody notices.

How you manage to work with this 24-karat schmuck is beyond me.

Later, rational folk. Gotta put food on my fambly.

By RW-(the original)

September 17, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

It’s a little silly to be saying that these companies were operating with no oversight. It’s more true to say they were operating with shoddy oversight because Congress insisted on keeping that job and the campaign contributions that came with it in in house. That and mandating they make bad loans in the flowery language of “affordable housing” built this house of cards and also forced the government to have to steep in since for the most part it was the government that caused the problem in the first place.

We could toss them all out or we could follow the money and see just which politicians were feeding most heavily at the trough of these companies and just throw them out. Here’s a hint. Over the last ten years Barack Obama has gotten the third most money from Fannie Mae and he hasn’t been there for all ten. Change? Right!

[McCain lays him out])http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZqn2nog_S8)

N-GA,

I read a story in the Washington Post a few minutes ago trying to get some information about this “loan” and it doesn’t sound much like a loan at all the way they describe it. It read more like we the people just bought 80% of a bankrupt company and expect to sell off that 80% over time to get our money back with interest. Like that’s gonna work….

Color me skeptical, but maybe we can get government to quit mandating bad business practices on private enterprise in the future.

I think I’m going to drop out of this conversation and go do some work.

Later!

By AJC/DNC Management

September 17, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

You libs still have Bruno’s phone number?:

But this is a vain hope, for, again, it is too late for Obama to turn victory into the defeat he prefers as a matter of both politics and policy. Sometimes, Obama tries to claim credit for the victory, arguing that the troops are coming home on his timetable after all. But this just ignores the huge difference between troops coming home in smashing victory, and troops coming home in devastating defeat.

Trust me, this is fixing to become larger than life, by far larger than any troopergate nonsense could ever hope to be.

Buh bye barry.

By N-GA

September 17, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

Andy,

I didn’t advocate shooting people in the head, I simply made an observation.

Let me make one more observation: You, in your singularly unique stupidity, reacted exactly as expected. Thank you!

By Denise

September 17, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Just_Me. So far we’ve been able to keep our home. A lot of friends and relatives have not been able to though. My sister and brother-in-law and their little baby are living with us for the last 2 months. But we’re glad to help them out as long as we can.

I’m with you on McCain. He’s just too out of it to be president. He says being rich means having at least $5 million. Is that out of touch or what? The guy doesn’t even know how many houses he owns. Give me a break.

Obama & Biden in ‘08.

By Bosch

September 17, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Just Me,

Tell your kids and grandkids to start learning Mandarin, because the Chinese are the ones paying for this, not us.

Our country is broke - we’re not going to fit the bill for this, the Chinese and other countries will. We’re bought goods, politicians have always been comfortable with being bought w*******, now they’ve allowed all of us to share in the same.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just read where Alderman was put to death - good. So, when can we expand capital punishmment offenses? Who do I need to speak with about this?

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

Wow. Catch the latest Obama ad on the economy:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1185304443/bctid1799203760

Better than trying to put lipstick on a pig.

By Paul

September 17, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

N-GA 8:18

[[My question is “Is the price of the loan an equity stake AND repayment of principal and interest?”.]]

One of the stations needs to hire you as a talking head. ‘course, with questions like that, the sponsors’d pressure the stations to fire you…

Taxpayer,

I don’t look at turnabout as fair play, just normal play. And I pretty much agree with Obama that such playtime is a big reason we’re in the mess we’re in.

By AJC/DNC Management

September 17, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

By JAY BOOKMAN September 17, 2008 9:04 AM Hey Management, did you hear that Hurricane Ike didn’t hit until SEPTEMBER?

Well, pardon me, I didn’t explain fully that construction activity is soon to pick up in the most major way.

By Goldie

September 17, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

ByteMe— OK, so it’s about 8 MONTHS of our occupation of Iraq… still much better to spend those billions here instead of there, and let the Iraqis spend their own BILLIONS to police their own country.

By Bud Wiser

September 17, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

I heard just now that Hillary has bailed out today on speaking to a Jewish group in New York, because Sarah Palin is going to be there? They are furious.

1) If true, maybe Hillary doesn’t have as big a pair as people surmise, or;

2) Now that Hillary’s not on the ticket, she will underhandedly torpedo Obama at every turn, so more to set herself up for a run in 2012.

Ah, what tangled webs we weave….

Obama/Biden ‘08 - making it easy to be stupid

By "The Corporal"

September 17, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Luke Chapter 14

28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

Wise words from the Banker of the Universe.

By JAY BOOKMAN

September 17, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

You do remember August, don’t you Management? It wasn’t that long ago. In fact, on Aug. 28, you posted this little gem, citing a quote from Obama’s acceptance speechl:

“�We meet at one of those defining moments � a moment when our nation is at war, our economy is in turmoil, and the American promise has been threatened once more.

Gee, define “turmoil:”

Gross domestic product, or GDP, grew at a 3.3 percent annual rate in the April-June quarter, its fastest pace in nearly a year, the Commerce Department reported Thursday. The revised reading was much better than the government’s initial estimate of a 1.9 percent pace and exceeded economists’ expectations for a 2.7 percent growth rate.

This is what the dimwits want to “change?”“

The next day, on Aug. 29, you posted this, and again I quote in full:

“Check out this nonsense-

Economists wary despite GDP surprise-Urinal/PMS

Yeah, you libs better be wary, no recession means you been entirely wrong on the economy for 8 solid years.

Must really suck seeing an economic boom.

Weirdos.”

By Just_Me

September 17, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Bosch, My oldest, a senior at a state university, and I were talking recently….I advised him, seriously, to learn two languages..Mandarin Chinese and Arabic….

He plans on going into criminal justice on the federal level….

Denise

Ignore the nasty tone of AJC/NonManagement’s comment-

bottom line is that ANY ONE OF US can be in your shoes…all kinds of catastrophes could befall you/your family- and anyone can be there.Too bad he’s too mean spirited to find compassion.

Why should your husband have to travel to Texas for what will invariably be a temporary position?? Too bad your husband didn’t get the offer of a golden parachute!(see: fioriono, and all of the other awful ceos)..

If his post is a demonstration of that good old compassionate conservatism, I want none of it.

Hope your family is helping YOU out as well…

;-)

By T

September 17, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Anyone know where this imaginary 85billion is coming from? After you run a company into the groud, why are you still gettin paid? Shouldn’t you just run for president?

By Taxpayer

September 17, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

Paul,

When the originator of the pandering thinks it’s normal play, then turnabout is indeed fair play.

By Bud Wiser

September 17, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Oh, I forgot this loser on my 828a post:

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), chairman of the House oversight committee

(So what have the morons been doing while the sky is falling?) [http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13514.html]

Pelosi calls for a Congressional investigation into Wall Street practices. A little late, don’t you think? Maybe the idiots on the so-called Oversight committee should have been doing that for years now.

Pelosi’s Congress was more interested in steroid use by baseball players than the economy. Rep Waxman wants to grandstand people from Lehman’s next week at a meeting to cover for he fact that his committee is an abysmal failure.

His circus show will…”examine the regulatory mistakes and financial excesses that led to yesterday’s bankruptcy filing by Lehman Brothers,” Waxman wrote. And he gets paid to do this?

Democrats - Total Failure of Leadership

Obama/Biden ‘08 - making it easy to be stupid

By Just_Me

September 17, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer

Since my kids are born (and almost completely independent, yay!) I do realize this burden my generation-and honestly the generation before me-McCain could be my daddy (shudder!)—will be leaving will fall on their shoulders, my grandchildrens’ shoulders (despite the fact those boys say they won’t ever have kids..HA!) and probably their kids…

This really sickens me. Instead of leaving a legacy of good schools, infrastructure, health care, etc, etc,we leave massive DEBT from things we don’t truly believe in!

Some families get to pass down wealth. Our nation gets to pass down insane debt.

What I find striking is that there are so many NEWLY registered voters—and all of them, from what I read/hear, are registering as Democrats. Let’s hope that the newest generation of voters choose our leaders wisely…

After all, as my sons keep reminding me, they will be ‘picking our nursing homes!’ ;-> On that note…i’m off to try to enjoy what’s left of my break, and go food shopping! (ha!)

By N-GA

September 17, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

Paul,

One would think that after the S&L meltdown, we would have learned our lesson about regulatory oversight.

BTW, what do you think about the “before” McCain claiming he lacked much knowledge about economics, then the “now” McCain touting his economic creds as Chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee? Doesn’t he realize how widely he opens himself up to his opposition?

It could be suggested that in his role as Chairman of the Committee that he was in a position to do something about things before we got into the current mess we are in. Or, someone could accuse him of opportunistic flip-flopping. Or someone could remind him of his role in the Keating 5 scandal. Or someone could point out all the examples of where he was against regulation before he was for it.

I think you once pointed out (much more eloquently than I) that Obama’s lack of a lengthy political history also can be an advantage in that there is less evidence of his mistakes.

By Swami Dave

September 17, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

Well Jay….apparently the apocalypse is upon us because it sounds as if, both you and I, are in many ways agreeing in our frustration with recent events in the financial markets.

We can agree to disagree about -some- of the underlying causes, but can agree that many of them are (at best) incompetent mismanagement if not outright fradulent activity.

Personally, I disagree with government intervention and regulation of private enterprises, but since AIG is not received funds guaranteed by the taxpayers of America, government (as our elected representatives) has a rightful say in its operations.

I would suggest a few initial steps to clean up the mess: -first, the current executives responsible for this debacle and the board of directors who selected them should resign or be replaced. they should be replaced by individuals who will reorganize their operations using sound market & risk management strategies. -second, there should be an immediate investigation into the causes of this situation and, if there were fraudlent activities taking place, they should be prosecuted.
-third, future executive compensation, bonus, & severance packages should be tied to (first) AIG’s continued meeting of their obligations under the loan & (second) the profitability / performance of the company. If AIG is repaying the loan as agreed & the company is solvent / profitable, I have no problem with their leadership being compensated; if not, then their executives should be first in line sharing the frustration / potential for loss with taxpayers, shareholders, and their customers.
-fourth, as a part of this restructuring, AIG processes & models must be transparent & sound from a fudiciary perspective so that they can serve as examples to others in the industry that need to “get their houses in order” too.

-Swami Dave

By AJC/DNC Management

September 17, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Jay: I guess I don’t follow.

If this is in relation to the “Denise” comment, most non whiny people that I know would not be moaning about Houston’s economy after the whole region was practically leveled by a hurricane, especially those in the construction industry who should be thinking about opportunities, as unfortunate as they may be.

Even further, my suspicion of this “Denise’s” motives were confirmed by the ready made awfully quick replies of 8:56 and 8:57, which is exactly why I attached the “Duh” portion of my comment.

I ain’t even going to ask if that “conversation” came from one IP address, I already know it did.

And, if this is about me being somehow “wrong” about recent economic developments, could we like wait for them to get as bad as they were at the end of the Clinton dot.com bust?

Then you might have something on me.

By Bosch

September 17, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Jay,

Your comments to Andy raise a curious point: When do we stop looking at the GDP as the main indicator of the health of our economy?

The Republicans can say, “well we aren’t in a recession” and technically, that’s true, but it’s kind of like a person who is dying of heart failure thinking they are doing okay, because they don’t have cancer.

I heard an interesting story on NPR about this a month ago about this, when do we shift our thinking in regard to whether or not our economy is sound in terms of looking at EVERYTHING we spend our money on, and not focusing so much on the GDP and more traditional economic indicators - because they can be deceiving.

By Taxpayer

September 17, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

I just never cease to be amazed at the number of bass-ackwards mentalities that shine through from within the Republican party around election time — they subject us all to the spin cycle before they even think about running things through the wash and rinse cycles. So much for understanding the concept of “well-vetted”. Come on Republicans. Air that laundry. Let’s get this show on the road. We’ve only got ‘til November 4.

By N-GA

September 17, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

Paul,

I don’t know if this will get thru the censors. I went and saw “Bottle Shock”. It’s a pity that an interesting story will probably never get the distribution it deserves. The people who made this movie decided (admittedly) that they needed to play with the truth in order make for more interesting viewing.

Alan Rickman was terrific and Bill Pullman put in a workmanlike effort. The rest was “off-the-rack”, and the story was weak. They focused only on Chateau Montelena and the white wines, relegating the story of the Stag’s Leap Cabernet to some scrolling text after the movie ended, but before the credits.

I can’t say that I can recommend paying $10+ to see it. I got the senior rate for the first time. Whoa, it’s hard to type those words!

By Denise

September 17, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

Just_Me, I don’t pay any attention to people like AJC/Nonmanagement. I feel sorry for people like that. Someday he/she might be in the same situation. But I don’t wish this on anyone.

By T

September 17, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

85 Billion. How many solar plants could that build? Anyone know if we have started anything like this? Wonder how many jobs that would create?

By Denise

September 17, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

T, That would help us so much. Solar plants, jobs, etc.

I heard a phrase awhile back that suits a lot of folks - Live poor, vote rich.

I know a lot of people who do just that. Sad, isn’t it?

By Paul

September 17, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer 9:27

[[When the originator of the pandering thinks it’s normal play, then turnabout is indeed fair play.]]

Okay, so can we call it kinda even and get on with some real change?

If we don’t, all the calls for an Israeli/Arab peace agreement, burying the hatchet; or the Serb/Moslem slaughters, or… take your pick… ring rather hollow, don’t they?

N-GA

I took the McCain “before” as more of a “this is a huge topic, I don’t know it all, I specialized in some areas, there’s always more to know” – and he paid a political price for a moment of candor. So now he’s changing that – which is why the remake.

The politicians we like are omniscient, while the ones we don’t like are nincompoops.

McCain needs to clarify exactly what he wants done with regulation, which is not the same as oversight. I have no problem with him saying “we thought this, we now see new conditions and we need to change policies.” Just a modification of the ‘change’ theme. Of course, I don’t have any problem with Obama doing that, either. He’s done it on Iraq, he did it just the other day regarding delaying rescinding top-tier tax cuts. I can look at that as being flexible, open-minded, open to new conditions and admirable. I reference it mostly to ping the people who look at any such action as ‘flip flop.”

By AJC/DNC Management

September 17, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Seems as though the WSJ agrees with Budwiser:

If Mr. Frank thinks his “affordable housing” goals are so popular, he can always ask Congress to appropriate money for any housing subsidy he desires. But he knows those votes are hard to come by. It’s much easier to have Fannie and Freddie take inordinate risks, even at taxpayer expense, so they can pay a political dividend called an “affordable housing trust fund” that politicians will disperse. In opposing genuine reform of Fan and Fred, Mr. Frank wasn’t acting like a principled liberal. He was protecting corporate giants while hiding their risks from taxpayers until the middle class got stuck with the bill.

And me too.

By Paul

September 17, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

N-GA

Thanks for the review. It’s on my to see list, but as is true with so many, I may miss it at the cinema and will have to get it from Netflix. Pullman’s one of those guys who usually give a good performance. Rickman - is he still playing nasty characters? Sometimes he has fun with them, as with his part in Galaxy Quest.

I’m still getting the “Old Codger” rate.

By Taxpayer

September 17, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Paul,

Real change is what I’m looking for. Aren’t you? Please, don’t tell me that you have found it in Palin and McCain. If so, then please come in out of the rain — yellow rain, that is.

By Bosch

September 17, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Paul,

And don’t forget Severus Snape!

By N-GA

September 17, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Paul,

I understand that both candidates will modify their positions from time to time. When that occurs, I simply try to analyze why. In some instances they do it because the situation on the ground has changed. In others they do it to pander to a particular demographic.

Of course, I can only hope that we can put a President in office who will be open to changing his opinions/policies when warranted.

But what I am trying to say is that it must drive McCain’s people right over the edge when he responds to questions extemporaneously.

By RealityKing

September 17, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Less government, less taxes and no bailouts..

By mm

September 17, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Dead on target, Jay.

Wingnuts,

See what happens when you deregulate and let capitalism and free enterprise run amok.

Corporations only care about profit. They don’t care about you and me. Can you imagine if this company was involved in the privatization of Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security.

There are corporate crooks everywhere.

Keep the brilliant ideas coming, wingnuts.

By Mrs. Godzilla

September 17, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

NEXT UP

FAILING MONEY MARKET FUNDS…..

“on Tuesday the $62 billion Primary Fund from the Reserve, a New York money-market firm, said it “broke the buck” — that is, its net asset value fell below the $1-a-share level that funds like this must maintain. Breaking the buck is an extremely rare occurrence. The fund was pinched by investments in bonds issued by now collapsing Lehman Brothers. Money-market funds are supposed to be among the safest investments available.”“

FROM the WSJ

By Truth

September 17, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Hey mm… name one thing that government has run that has made profit.

By Alan

September 17, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

We are always concerned with fighting communism but few understand the cause of communism. If you understand the cause of communism you will see the writing on the wall. It is much more effective to treat the cause than fight the symptoms. I am truly disgusted by all of this. I feel powerless and I don’t even care anymore.

By Bosch

September 17, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Truth,

That is a really ridiculous statement. The government’s job isn’t to make a profit.

We the People in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty, to ourselves and posterity to ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.

Nope, nothing in there about making a profit.

Guess what? I typed that without even looking it up!

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Truth: First name one thing that government is supposed to operate to turn a profit.

By Paul

September 17, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Bosch

More dropped posts….

Glad he didn’t do Snape early on, that’d be a typecast part. One of my favorite scenes in Galaxy Quest is where the crew is advancing on hostile and Tim Allen is running crouched over and hitting the ground and rolling and running and rolling… and Hickman’s walking behind him rolling his eyes.

N-GA

Isn’t that one way McCain set himself apart - getting reporters together for a lengthy gabfest on his bus? Wide ranging, all sorts of questions, could crack a joke and know the reporters weren’t going to repeat it as a ‘gotcha’ statement.

But then came the nomination and ‘gotcha.’ Candor suffers.

By Truth

September 17, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Social Security…

By N-GA

September 17, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

ByteMe,

Forgive me for answering your question, but I hope that when our government actually wages a just war, the American voter will reap a profit. Perhaps it won’t be measured in dollars, but a profit in liberty works for me.

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Bosch: thought it was “do ordain”.

By Copyleft

September 17, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

It seems the old formula still works: Deregulate as the lobbyists demand, repeal Glass-Steagall, and “get government out of the way”…

And, inevitably, you get crashes and bailouts. We really need to get past this notion that government has no role to play in protecting Americans from capitalism’s excesses.

By mm

September 17, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Bosch at 11:07,

Thanks for answering that idiotic question before I did.

By Bud Wiser

September 17, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

“By T September 17, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this 85 Billion. How many solar plants could that build? Anyone know if we have started anything like this? Wonder how many jobs that would create?”

Golly, I wish I had thought of that! We could all run through the fields with the bunnies and the deer, happily plucking leaves off daisies, singing and playing!

Of course we’d be doing that anyway since the failure of AIG could start a domino effect in the financial world making what’s happening now look like a Saturday evening tea party.. No one would be working, and all of those environmentally friendly solar and wind powered plants would be humming along with nothing to power.

We’d be sort of like the Eloi and the Chinese would be the Moorlocks. But oh how happy we would be, and so carefree!

Obama/Biden ‘08 - making it easy to be brain dead

By Bosch

September 17, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Paul,

I saw Galaxy Quest just the other night - was flipping through and it was coming on, I thought, oh this is silly, but the next thing I knew I’d watched the whole thing - and laughed my a@$ off in the meantime.

Die Hard - classic falling scene.

Out for a bit.

By Truth

September 17, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

And if profit in government doesnt matter then why all the fuss about Palin selling the airplane at a loss?

….oh, and if you all get you beloved universal healthcare system I am sure the government will screw it up too. Why is more government always your answer? Let me guess? So the greedy dont make wall street bankrupt….

By getalife

September 17, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Andy,

This is not the time for ideologue, partisan, hacks. Give it a rest.

And the last betrayal was capitalism in the death of America.

Hopefully, this will finally wake up America to stop trusting these corrupt politicians.

They don’t deserve our trust so stop blindly supporting them and giving them money.

Tell them to fix our broken government or shut it down. Lock the doors and stay until it is done. They can start by banning lobbyists and shutting down K Street.

By Rocco Pedestrian

September 17, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

I have always wanted a nationalized insurance company. There is no excuse for private insurance companies, who make their money gambling. I just hope we take over AIG and run it for the benefit of the people instead of bailing them out and leaving them private. It’s time to intelligently reassess our negative position on socialism. If private industry was subject to the open records laws and freedom of information act, their image as better managers than the government would be shattered. Our government runs things very well - witness the armed forces, medicare, air traffic controllers, national parks, Hoover Dam, NASA and interstate highway system. More things should be run by the government, in the open, for the benefit of the people.
Government-run institutions didn’t go under this week. I believe it was three privately owned institutions! NEVER NEVER privatize social security.

By Paul

September 17, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

ByteMe

Big picture,,, big picture…

:-)

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

I loved the 1960 movie, Bud. One of the best special effects movies of its time. Totally creeped me out when I was little, though.

T: the answer is yes, and you can search on “solar desert” on google and see all the existing plants and projects that are coming onstream in the future. Even Wiki has a page on it.

By "The Corporal"

September 17, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

It’s all about greed.

By Rocco Pedestrian

September 17, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

I have always wanted a nationalized insurance company. There is no excuse for private insurance companies, who make their money gambling. I just hope we take over AIG and run it for the benefit of the people instead of bailing them out and leaving them private. It’s time to intelligently reassess our negative position on socialism. If private industry was subject to the open records laws and freedom of information act, their image as better managers than the government would be shattered. Our government runs things very well - witness the armed forces, medicare, air traffic controllers, national parks, Hoover Dam, NASA and interstate highway system. More things should be run by the government, in the open, for the benefit of the people.
Government-run institutions didn’t go under this week. I believe it was three privately owned institutions! NEVER NEVER privatize social security.

By Rocco Pedestrian

September 17, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

I have always wanted a nationalized insurance company. There is no excuse for private insurance companies, who make their money gambling. I just hope we take over AIG and run it for the benefit of the people instead of bailing them out and leaving them private. It’s time to intelligently reassess our negative position on socialism. If private industry was subject to the open records laws and freedom of information act, their image as better managers than the government would be shattered. Our government runs things very well - witness the armed forces, medicare, air traffic controllers, national parks, Hoover Dam, NASA and interstate highway system. More things should be run by the government, in the open, for the benefit of the people.
Government-run institutions didn’t go under this week. I believe it was three privately owned institutions! NEVER NEVER privatize social security.

By N-GA

September 17, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

• Gold up $57/oz.
• DJIA down 275 points
• dollar down
• gasoline up

In the meantime, there was a terrorist attack on the US embassy in Yemen. This small country, home to Osama bin Laden, is a hotbed of Al Qaida and the location of the deadly attack on a US naval vessel.

The government & judicial system of Yemen don’t seem to take these terrorists seriously. “The U.S. was angered when a Yemeni-American, Jaber Elbaneh, convicted in Yemen for planning attacks on oil installations, was freed as he appealed his 10-year prison sentence. Elbaneh has since been taken back in custody, Yemeni officials say, but San’a has refused American requests that Elbaneh be handed over to the U.S. for trial on charges of provide material support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization.

American officials were also alarmed when Yemeni courts commuted a death sentence for Jamal al-Badawi, convicted of masterminding the Cole attack, giving him instead 15 years in prison.

During a June visit to San’a, President Bush’s homeland security adviser Kenneth Wainstein pushed Saleh for “strong and serious measures to be carried out in Yemeni courts to try the terrorists and to hold them accountable.”

I wonder how the people of Viet Nam view the US government & judicial system? We know what the US military and Gerald Ford thought of Lt. William Calley.

Personally I believe all murderers should be caught and punished.

By JAY BOOKMAN

September 17, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Rickman was also hilarious as the robot in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.

By T

September 17, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

By Bud Wiser

lol, I think you are right sir. However, if I’m running through the forest with the deer, I’d problably shoot Bambi’s father and take him home to load up the old freezer. You gotta love some thumpper stew. So, building and investing money into alternative energy sources would not create jobs? Possibly.

By Paul

September 17, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Jay

Do you know where your towel is?

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Truth: social security doesn’t really turn a profit. It’s a pay as you go system (never was meant as a “retirement plan”) that’s been banking its excess revenues to pay for the time when the baby boomers retire and not enough people are behind them to pay for those benefits.

It’s not a profit if the money is already spoken for.

And the fuss over the plane wasn’t really about the plane itself. It was the fake fable McCain-Palin are trying to peddle without shame at the inaccuracies. Why imply that she sold the plane on eBay? Why claim that she’s a “reformer” if she sold it at a loss to a campaign contributor when she couldn’t sell it on eBay? Why not just tell the truth the first time instead of the “death by a thousand cuts” that’s going on?

And I’m all for universal health care… in a form few people talk about. I’d like to see a government-sponsored (via tax credit?) baseline insurance coverage for all that is like a high-deductible plan with a co-pay for doctor visits like what you can get now. If you want more insurance or if an employer wants to offer more, that’s fine, but at least it’ll get the uninsured people out of emergency rooms and into doctor’s offices where they can get better coverage at lower costs. But this may be a topic for another day.

By Truth

September 17, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

ByteMe… I am stunned. You respond in a nice and civil manner. I like it!

I just feel that from my view that government has too many people running it that are all about power and not what it actually best for our country. Social secuirty is just an example of how government can screw something up. I do believe that government will screw up any nationalized healthcare that is created just like it has been in all other countries that have tried it. But like I have said before… what do I know?

By Paul

September 17, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

ByteMe

[[that’s been banking its excess revenues to pay for the time when the baby boomers retire]]

As I understand it, that’s the problem They don’t. It’s spent.

[[Why imply that she sold the plane on eBay?]]

She didn’t. Her words were, “That luxury jet was over the top,” Palin, the Republican vice presidential nominee, said to loud cheers. “I put it on eBay.”

I guess people who run Huffington Post, Washington Post, never dealt with eBay like the common folk. If they did they’d instantly know the difference between ‘putting something on eBay” and “I sold it on eBay.”

It’s all about the attitude. Know of any other governors who sold their jets? I’ve a friend who ran the department in a state responsible for the executive jets (read: governor’s jets). It’s all about ego. He said they’d get somewhere and start comparing, the “look what I got, look what I did.” No one ever said ‘they’ didn’t do anything - the taxpayers did.

To coin a phrase - Pathetic.

By Mike

September 17, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

In late July, voters trusted the Democrats better to handle the economy by 11 points - 47 to 36. Now the Democratic lead on the economy has dwindled to just 46 to 40.

By Tonia

September 17, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

And I quote:

““What people still are missing is that every growth story of the last five to ten years has been based on credit. China, commodities, real estate, hedge funds, everything was a capital-intense endeavor. Global growth was the symptom of the credit bubble,” he said.”

By Let's Trace this to the Beginnings....

September 17, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Government provides Easy money to banks….. Banks make loans to anyone who can take a breath…. AIG insures these loans believing the banks were doing their due diligence…. Government tightens easy money to fend off the evil dragon of inflation AIG forced to pay off for the loans that are now bad because of government tightening. Government provides easy money to AIG. Government now owns AIG.

Guess which entity should have never been part of the equation?

By G

September 17, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

ByteMe,

I was on vacation in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada earlier in the month. I asked the tour bus driver, who lives there, his opinion of the health care system.

He said Americans should not believe what they hear and read, that Canada’s health care system is fine.

He told me he doesn’t have to wait for appointments, which is what I’ve heard so many people in the USA say about Canada, that they have to wait forever to see a doctor.

He told me that awhile back his aunt had a heart attack, she was cared for right away, open heart surgery was performed on her, she was on the road to recovery in two days from the time she had the heart attack. And she didn’t have to pay a cent.

He compared that situation to his wife’s dad’s, who lives in Michigan. He almost went under trying to pay for his heart surgery.

Now, I’m not saying everyone in Canada feels this way, but I believe we should investigate before we believe all the stuff we read and are told about Canada’s system being terrible.

This man is very satisfied.

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Paul: for SS, it’s invested in T-Bills (by law) and unless the Federal Government plans to declare bankruptcy in the future (which would probably cause a worldwide depression, if one wasn’t already in progress at the time), those T-Bills will need to be honored. Same as the T-Bills that China and Russia hold. They could “cancel” the T-Bills to SS, but that might also cause a monster shock to the world financial system.

As for eBay, I said she “implied” it. She could have just said “I sold it”, but she implied that she sold it on eBay, which is not correct. She also implied that by selling it, she was saving money, but I’m not sure the numbers work out there either, since she sold it for $300,000 less than expected price against a reported monthly maintenance cost of $20,000, so what was the hurry to sell it at a loss? Why not just mothball it until it could sell at a better price?

Anyway, attitude, she definitely has a lot of that. I’m not so sure I like attitude without deep thought, though. She also is a poor bluffer, a trait that comes in handy when you’re horse-trading with world leaders.

Onward….

And, Truth: the same thing can be said about corporations with people running around trying to gain personal power over the betterment of the corporation. It’s human nature and going to be part of any enterprise involving more than one person. It’s not just government.

And SS is not screwed up; it’s the Federal budget and “no new taxes” that’s screwing things up. The benefits costs have been known for a long time, but if you don’t collect enough revenue to pay for it…. I really am a fiscal conservative, even if I want to see an expanded role of government in certain activities that are needed for all (like roads, airports, and health care). I just want to be sure we’re clear what the costs are and that we’re collecting enough money to pay those costs. Right now, it’s clear we’re not doing that and not enough people care. “No new taxes” is the easy side of the equation.

As for the “nice” reply: thank you. The world needs less anonymous name-calling. I wonder if certain people on here will take up the challenge.

By Truth

September 17, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

ByteMe… You are more than welcome and I totally agree.

The difference between government and a company is that it is the job of the company to make the profit and with government their job is to make it work… I think we both just switched sides on the whole government making profit issue…lol

By pat

September 17, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

I think Nancy Pelosi has successfully graduated to “Stupidest Woman in America”

By Michael

September 17, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

The bailout is just trying to treat the system of greed and unwise business practices, and not deal with the root of the issue. The loan of 85 billion still does not deal with the heart of greed. Remember the 85 billion is just paper without accountability. AIG lacks serious management problems, and with the government bailout, there management skills are not that great either. Everybody know that the more money you print because of debt, dilutes it value. Because the money is just paper and not a brain, and wise business practices.

By Midori

September 17, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

Now let me get this straight. According to Andy, Bud Wiser, and the rest of the 28% chorus, the Democrats are responsible for:

chopping down George Washington’s cherry tree

the Plague

the Inquisition

assassinating Caesar, Lincoln and JFK (not necessarily in that order)

9/11

the rash on their feet

the breakup of Britney Spears’ marriage

the breakup of the Beatles

Evel Knievel crashing his motorcycle

did I forget anything?

By getalife

September 17, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

The ad that won Obama this election

By saywhat

September 17, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Jay - for one of the only very few times that I can think of (and I have been reading you for years) - I agree 100% with you. I think we ought to criminalize the CEO’s and VPs and Board members of these companies that are being bailed-out (and as you said - not from the govt - but from us, the ones who pay taxes). What they have done, along with the millions they made and continue to make, is not much different than if I walked into a bank and said “give me $1 million”. It is still stealing. They should all go to jail. As a person who spent nearly 20 years in banking (80s and 90s) - I could see this all eventually happening. And it’s a shame, and there is plenty of blame to go around - not just the corporations and the current Administration. For those of you who want to just bash Bush - you all played a part in this as well. Like when you wanted to purchase a $400K house on income of only $80K and told the banker or mortgage person that you wanted a no-money-down loan, at an interest-only rate; and if you don’t get the loan - you are taking your business elsewhere. Or taking out a HELOC because someone said you have $50K or $100K equity in your house - so you use it as a ATM to buy the things you couldn’t afford to begin with. So, you see, a large part of the problem rest with the consumer - as well as regulators, the government (isn’t the Banking and Finance Committee ran by Democrates), and the companies. That’s what makes this whole mess bad - there’s blame to go all around. And the financial landscape will forever be altered and we will be paying for this for many years to come.

By BS Aplenty

September 17, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

While not knowing all the details of this unusual event by the Federal Reserve, it appears that the credit facilities made available by the Federal Reserve were structured as well as any private lender would have - maybe a little better. The Fed currently owns 79.9% of AIG and the current shareholders have lost most of their value. I am somewhat curious why the private market could not arrange this credit with government guarantees but apparently time was of the essence.

As I read it, the Fed makes an $85B credit line available to AIG for 24 months at an interest rate of 8.50% over 3Mo LIBOR and secured by everything AIG owns. Today, that interest rate would be about 11.6%. That’s VERY high for corporate debt but given the circumstances, wholly warranted. Imagine, though, the U.S. government charging a usurious rate for one of it’s corporate minions. My how the mighty have fallen.

Bottom line, it looks like this very temporary 24-month credit facility will enable a solvent, but cash poor, AIG to begin selling its assets and/or begin restructuring operations with proceeds from both to entirely pay back the Fed credit facility. I’m sure with an interest rate of 11.6%, the company will be looking to refinance the facility ASAP.

Overall, a short-term, secured loan has been made available to AIG at usurious rates by the Bush Administration.

Jay, I thought you’d be happy about this.

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Midori: you forgot tooth plaque.

And getalife, I posted that earlier in the thread. It’s a GREAT ad.

By Michael

September 17, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Why would the government allow these type AIG to grow so big, that one company can so destroy so many other sectors. The government is clearly brain dead.

By Shawny

September 17, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Is it too late to get Ron Paul to run as the Libertarian candidate for prez?

By Chestatee

September 17, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

“Privatize the profit, socialize the risk.” Definition of capitalism by Repugnicans.

By Up the Downstairs

September 17, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

My Favorite Things ……………

Lipstick on Pitbulls and Flip Flops on Stances

Attack ads that swiftboat both candidates’ chances.

VPs that poll well because of their bling

These are a few of my favorite things

When the veep stings, attack-dog style

and the polls are bad,

I simply remember my favorite things, and then I dont feel so bad.

Pink liberal whiners, and GOP bashers

Cops weilding numbchucks at convention crashers

Speeches that say nothing yet still impress

Imagine our president wearing a dress

.

Snowflaking babies that lead to the alter

Bailing out Wallstreet when Ponzi Schemes falter

Tortured insurgents all tied up with string

These R a few of my favorite things.

.

Losing elections instead of the wars

Not teaching Johnny about dinosaurs

Russia’s white winters I see from my swing

These are a few of my favorite things.

When the veep stings, attack dog style

and the polls go bad

They simply refuse to allow paper trails

or recount the hanging chads.

By MorningStar

September 17, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

By Alan September 17, 2008 11:01 AM We are always concerned with fighting communism but few understand the cause of communism.

No they do not understand. Desparate people resort to desparate (and many times) wrong measures.

When I hear people ‘whine’ about labor unions, I’m reminded that EMPLOYERS, not employees created labor unions. Granted they (unions) have overstepped their bounds but that’s another story. Without them we’d have business as it was before, i.e. unsafe working conditions, a zillion hour work week, child labor, wages a rat couldn’t live on to name a few.

By Michael September 17, 2008 12:30 PM Why would the government allow these type AIG to grow so big, that one company can so destroy so many other sectors.

One does wonder, now doesn’t one. Deregulation and monopoly, the dream team of the United Corporations of America!

By JAY BOOKMAN

September 17, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

If it’s such a great deal for taxpayers, BS, why did private firms want nothing to do with it?

Secured loans, usurious rates, yet they fled from the deal like a flock of startled starlings.

By MorningStar

September 17, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

By MorningStar September 17, 2008 12:47 PM

My bad. Spell desperate, please.

By Rick

September 17, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Hey bookman, How does it feel to know as Boortz”s Beoch?

By Wondering

September 17, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Does this not make our country now a socialist country? When the government owns a big business?????? The government now owns AIG……….thought the dems would do this, not the repubs……

But here we are…..

By Grading Wooten

September 17, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Wooten doesn’t think we want Obama around in the AIG crisis. Who does Wooten propose we want to have around in this crisis? the conservative pirates who caused it?

Wooten is able to weigh in on the AIG bailout with only partisan sellout hack-wipe. What a waste of a great talent. Every sentence this menace to journalism writes has to conform to GOP hatespeak because of some old pledge to his first employer, a conservative Professor Higgins type ting; but it’s not so much My Fair Lady, as Lipstick on Pygmalion.

By Hillbilly Deluxe

September 17, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

The big guys are too big to fail. Screw the little guys. Everybody keeps their commissions. Isn’t that about it in a nutshell?

By BS Aplenty

September 17, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Jay, given the sheer size and scope of AIG’s operations, foreign and domestic, the Federal Reserve responsibly arranged for a short term line of credit to the company secured by everything AIG owns and the kitchen sink. I absolutely think that the entire $85B will be repaid and the government, as I understand it, will still own 79.9% of AIG. That ownership may net the American people a little change in the future as AIG’s new management team (the old ones were terminated) takes over.

It’s not where the government needs to be (and you may repeat that statement several times) but, on that point I would certainly defer to their judgement. The loan appears to be well-structured to protect the American taxpayer. We should know within the next 24 months.

By Skeptic Tank

September 17, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Where is the Republican outrage at this government bail-out of AIG? Why hasn’t McCain stepped up and denounced it summarily? Why hasn’t Palin? All we hear about is how private industry need not be subjected to government regulation…but now that the greed, avarice and negligence of the private sector has come home to roost, WE THE PEOPLE will have to foot the bill. And still, the right wing is silent.

Hypocrisy. And it makes me physically ill.

By getalife

September 17, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Lets socialize big oil for cheap gas.

Let’s socialize health care like Canada.

The door is open.

w killed capitalism and opened the door to socialism.

Chavez is smiling today.

By getalife

September 17, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

Lets socialize big oil for cheap gas.

Let’s socialize health care like Canada.

The door is open.

w killed capitalism and opened the door to socialism.

Chavez is smiling today.

By Bosch

September 17, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Okay, so what have I missed.

Byte Me,

I’m not sure if it’s “do ordain” - I was recalling the School of Rock song, and that’s how I remember it from 8th grade.

But you’ve successfully outlined my opinions as well in regard to SS and healthcare.

I think it’s quite funny when wingnuts use the universal healthcare scare tactics based on one European’s bad experience. And my favorite is the “Oh my God, we’d have to wait two weeks to see a doctor if I have a heart attack” excuse. Or whatever “statistic” they were touting around a few months ago about 20% of people dying of cancer in England. I forgot the details of that one.

Midori,

You forgot hangovers, eye crud, and bad hair days.

By TW

September 17, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Skeptic Tank - how about some Republican outrage at the McCain led Fed trampling the state of Alaska’s government?

Greater transparency through suppressed investigation?

By Agree

September 17, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

I agree, it just doesn’t pass the “smell” test.

Has anyone looked at the consequences and impact to all sectors if “we” let these giants fail???

By Bosch

September 17, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

You know what the real pressing question is regarding AIG:

WILL MANCHESTER UNITED HAVE TO CHANGE THEIR UNIFORMS?

By @@

September 17, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Thanks Bosch!

We the People in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty, to ourselves and posterity

So tell me, where is the common defense of and freedom for our posterity? You know……..the unborn!

Be forewarned! Every time I see ^^^ that, I’m gonna raise the same question.

By Mrs. Godzilla

September 17, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Great Quote:

“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.”

~ Mahatma Gandhi

Gallop has Obama back up…..and their methodology favors the GOP…..

By Midori

September 17, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Mrs. G -

the Dems are finally getting smart!!

By Grading Wooten

September 17, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

There was only one text in the School of Rock: The Book of Love.

And nobody knows who wrote it.

People wonder, wonder who, (wrote the Book of Love).

Hey, Skeptic Tank. R U blogging from a think tank, or a stink tank? (cant tell from here)

By Bosch

September 17, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Grading Wooten,

My bad. I meant Schoolhouse Rock. Thanks for pointing that out.

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

September 17, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

The economic infrastructure of the United States has rotted and is in process of crumbling. The Great Depression will appear to have been a happy time in comparison to what lies ahead. And it’s all happened under the blind eye of the Republinazi Party. Mc Stupid and Pagan would continue the policies of George W. Hitler and finish up the job he’s undertaken to wipe out the middle class and reduce this nation’s population to a multitude of penniless and a few rich. Time for change! Throw out the Republinazis!

By Grading Wooten

September 17, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

whoopeedoo-oo

By N-GA

September 17, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

@@,

Did you watch Scalia on 60 Minutes this past Sunday? He actually said that his interpretation of the Constitution (and the intent of its authors) is that the authors were providing rights (and protection of those rights) for individuals AFTER they were born, not before.

For the most part he was charming and eloquent. I didn’t hear his tail rattle once. Almost human….

By Grading Wooten

September 17, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Oh, that’s different (and totally ruins my bit).

thanx (i think)

By mm

September 17, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Paul,

It was McCain during a speech that stated Palin had sold the plane on ebay. And after pausing for effect, said “For a profit”. And the crowd cheered.

This guy hasn’t told the truth since March.

His desperation for the office scares the h*ll out of me.

By Mrs. Godzilla

September 17, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Midori

I saw that….great news.

No repeats of 2000 and 2004…..

By ben

September 17, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

For once I agree with you, Bookman. The Fed should not be bailing out AIG. And Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should never have been set up by the government (where losses got socialized, profits capitalized).

Looks like everything would be better if the government would STAY OUT OF BUSINESS AFFAIRS! Almost all this mess is directly attributable to the government trying to fix things. “Poor people need homes and you’re racist if you won’t lend them the money even thought you know they can’t pay back.”

By Bosch

September 17, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

ben,

Your last paragraph is complete non-sense. This is not the government’s fault, it is the corporate w******* fault. Put blame where it’s due dude.

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Bosch: I had to memorize it in elementary school:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

As for @@’s assertion that this covers the “unborn” (whatever that means; reminds me of one of those horror flicks), I would counter that it means “descendants”… used in a sentence: “If it doesn’t make it out of the womb alive, it’s not a descendant.” :-)

By Midori

September 17, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Where there’s a will, there’s a way: Sarah palin’s personal email hacked

By Bosch

September 17, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

ByteMe,

I refused to take her bait. You’re right, whatever that means!

You know you were humming that song! Admit it! Everybody was!

I was using that earlier as an example of what the government’s responsibilities are - I know there are more, but that was just to point out Mr. Truth’s absurdities.

By @@

September 17, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

N-GA:

Did you watch Scalia on 60 Minutes this past Sunday?

Didn’t watch it this past Sunday. Watched it the first time around. Don’t recall that part. Not denying he said it…..just don’t recall it. I do, however, recall an article @ The Boston Globe where Scalia was quoted as having said this:

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia told a group of students on Monday at the Roger Williams University Law School that there is nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing abortion rights and that the issue is best left to legislatures rather than the Supreme Court, the AP/Boston Globe reports. “You want the right to abortion?” Scalia asked, adding, “Create it the way most rights are created in a democracy. Persuade your fellow citizens it’s a good idea — and pass a law.”

You should realize by now, that my efforts are to let those who were allowed to arrive, know that I’m glad they did regardless of what’s being said in the political arena.

Watched a public notice ad the other day. Two parents with a daughter, 7…8 years old standing between them. They were “ordering” a designer baby. The mom says “I want her to have her father’s smile.” and “I want her to have her mother’s blue eyes and blonde hair” the dad says. So the little brown haired, brown-eyed daughter looks up at them confused and asks “Am I what you wanted?” or something to that effect.

We never stop to think about what our children are hearing and seeing.

Now you’ll have to excuse me. JAY BOOKMAN has either insisted or requested that we stay on topic here. I made my comment at 8:58.

By Jimbo I

September 17, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Would all baby boomers please report to the nearest volcano for processing.. thank you.

By @@

September 17, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

ByChoo:

As for @@’s assertion that this covers the “unborn” (whatever that means; reminds me of one of those horror flicks)

That’s ^^^ a weird way of lookin’ at things if you don’t mind my sayin……

Not sure from where your thinkin originates. I’m an American Thinker.

Posterity began to go into a severe decline beginning, quite naturally, in the 1960s, with the rise of the ‘me-generation.’ Deferring experiences, pleasures, or achievements for the sake of others became unfashionable. Living in the moment, and for oneself, became ‘what’s happening.’

Oh! the unintended consequences.

So sorry………Outta here JAY.

By Econ101

September 17, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Jay, there is nothing precise about your statement on incurring debt our children and grandchildren might have to pay back. That’s a made up hoorror story intended to frigthen little children and ‘jounalists’ that know nothing about economics. It’s simply not true. Has our standard of living been worse because of the deficits in the Reagan years? No. The first reason is the debt may never be paid back. Secondly, although there is increased foreign ownership most of it is still held by US businesses and ultimately US citizens. When we pay interest or if we repaid the prinicple we’d just be paying it to ourselves and into our own economy. Lastly, even if the Chinese were paid off for the bonds the American currency they’d receive would eventually have to be spent on American goods and services.

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Yeah, @@, it was weird. Just where my mind jumped to with the phrase. “The Unborn”. I can hear the movie trailer voice-over… “The unborn aren’t dead… they’re back to get their revenge!”

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

September 17, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Drop the e and you have Con. You’re a moron if you think this debt won’t have to be repaid. Yes, the standard of living has suffered due to the policies of the old fool Reagan. We’ll be paying his bills for the next century or so. spare us any more of the Republinazi b****** economics.

By Fabb4eyes

September 17, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Byteme, do you realize what could happen if the Unborn ever team up with the children of the corn?

The unborn of the corn.

We wouldn’t have chance. They’d be on us before we could react. We’d be slaughtered like pigs in a poke, or fish in a barrel, or ducks in a pond.

Some things I just donts likes thinkins ‘bouts.

By Fabb4eyes

September 17, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Byteme, do you realize what could happen if the Unborn ever team up with the children of the corn?

The unborn of the corn.

We wouldn’t have chance. The little kernels would be on us before we could react. We’d be slaughtered like pigs in a poke, or fish in a barrel, or ducks in a pond.

Some things I just donts likes thinkins ‘bouts.

By Filster

September 17, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Folks, let’s face facts. No matter who wins in November, we’re all screwed. Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, whomever. All politicians march to the tune of whatever lobbyist or special interest they’re in bed with at the moment. The average U.S. citizen has no voice in DC anymore. Maybe Todd Palin WAS on to something in wanting to secede from the U.S. Sure as he!! this country isn;t ours anymore.

By Fabb4eyes

September 17, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Answer: Sarah Palin. Her unmarried, underaged daughter, Bristol, and John McCain.

Question: Name two hockey moms and a puck.

By Rick

September 17, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Bosch, name ONE thing the federal gov. ever tried to do and did not make a complete mess of, just one thing?

By Alan

September 17, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

To: Up the Downstairs, your take on “My Favorite Things” is hysterical! You should write for Stephen Colbert.

By RealityKing

September 17, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

But the good news is, 70% of those receiving Obama’s income tax cut have nothing to worry about.., because they’re not paying income taxes to start with..

By Econ101

September 17, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

RealityKing - You’re as bad at econ as Bookman. How can they get a cut if they’re already paying nothing? Is 0 less than 0, or does nothin from nothin leaves nothin?

By Econ101

September 17, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Oops, my mistake, you’re right. He want to triple the earned income credit they’re already getting.

By Bud Wiser

September 17, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

“By Midori

September 17, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

Now let me get this straight. According to Andy, Bud Wiser, and the rest of the 28% chorus, the Democrats are responsible for:

chopping down George Washington’s cherry tree

the Plague

the Inquisition

assassinating Caesar, Lincoln and JFK (not necessarily in that order)

9/11

the rash on their feet

the breakup of Britney Spears’ marriage

the breakup of the Beatles

Evel Knievel crashing his motorcycle

did I forget anything?”

Yes, dear. You forgot to mention that you are mentally challenged. Also, if you can have your sitter read to you, have him/her read you the latest poll figures.

I guess this puts you in the minority, both figuratively and literally.

Obama/Biden ‘08 - making it easy to be brain dead

By Skeptic Tank

September 17, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

OK, I know it’s off-topic, and my sincere apologies for THAT, Jay, but…

…has anyone heard the rumors circulating that Joe Biden plans to step down and permit Obama to name Hillary as his running mate?

I guess I’m just gullible when it comes to water cooler banter.

By CJ

September 17, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Despite her moniker, Econ101 doesn’t know jack about economics. If she did, then she’d understand that the EITC is one of the best poverty-fighting tools implemented (an idea created and pushed by economists).

It’s a better system of incentives than traditional social welfare programs because such traditional programs usually benefit people who are not working. The EITC does the opposite. It uses the federal income tax system to offset regressive state and local sales taxes that burden the working poor (a truth we should all be embarrassed about) most heavily so that their earned income is raised above the poverty line. The EITC has been seriously effective and a powerful incentive for people to get into the work force where they have learned skills that eventually lead to better paying jobs.

Of course, such subsidies for the working poor are injected directly into the economy (since by necessity, those living near poverty spend everything they earn), thereby also making the EITC an effective long-term economic stimulus.

Unfortunately, the likes of Econ101 won’t let the facts get in the way of her ideology.

By Paul

September 17, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

ByteMe 12:07

I spoke to my friend with another state agency. The jet they have for the governor runs $46,000 a month for the lease. Direct, easily identifiable costs are $4,000 an hour to run. Actual costs (costs that would not be incurred if the jet did not exist) are lots higher. Jets depreciate – holding them and not selling costs $$$$$. But the point with Palin is not if it was X dollars or Y dollars. It is the attitude of “I’m a public servant. You work hard to earn the money we tax you for and we have a responsibility to you. I considered the jet an unnecessary extravagance and a burden so I got rid of it.”

That resonates with a lot of voters.

As for SS not being screwed up: you may want to look at one of Jay’s columns from a few weeks ago. Or read the briefing by the Comptroller General. They take a different view. I found the numbers rather disconcerting. The no new taxes thing – aaack. People want stuff, they have a choice: pay for it directly, cut something to generate the funds, or kick the cost to the kids. The current voting generations don’t have a great track record in their choices.

Midori 12:20

[[According to Andy, Bud Wiser, and the rest of the 28% chorus, the Democrats are responsible for:]]

[[did I forget anything?]]

Global warming. Democrats cause global warming.

Have you heard from your brother?

N-GA 1:53

[[Did you watch Scalia on 60 Minutes… his interpretation of the Constitution (and the intent of its authors) is that the authors were providing rights (and protection of those rights) for individuals AFTER they were born, not before.]]

See why I like source material? Not someone’s interpretation?

Thank you.

@@

[[“You want the right to abortion?” Scalia asked, adding, “Create it the way most rights are created in a democracy. Persuade your fellow citizens it’s a good idea — and pass a law.”]]

Classic Scalia. But for many, it’s easier to rely on a judge than it is to persuade one’s fellow citizens.

Thank you, too.

By ByteMe

September 17, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Paul: the $20K number came I think from someone who looked at the state budget for the plane (I read it somewhere, but can’t remember where). The plane was owned, not leased (how else to be able to sell it?). And I understood the attitude, I really do. But if her policy is to save money for the state, why is she collecting per-diem to live 500 miles away at her home in Wasilla while the governor’s mansion sits mostly empty? Seems like if she was really working for the people she would suck it up and move to Juneau. Of course, I’m not terribly serious and don’t really care about Alaska politics, just pointing out that even a dummy like me can find inconsistencies in her statements vs. her actions. And those inconsistencies are being woven into a storyline of “not able to speak the truth” and that’s going to sink her numbers like a rock.

And SS isn’t in serious trouble, really. If you’re worried that it won’t be able to keep up payments to the boomers, that’s a problem pretty easily resolved by uncapping the max salary for SS taxes. And the “Echo Boom” will come along to provide enough workers to keep the scheme going.

If you’re worried that the T-Bills aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, as I indicated earlier, that’s a bigger problem for the entire world economy and one we should fix sooner rather than later, but neither candidate is interested in talking about it right now.