Home > Jay Bookman > Archives > 2008 > September > 15 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USAnother Black Monday on Wall Street
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The closing bell has sounded on Wall Street. It was not a pretty day. The Dow fell 300 points early, stabilized, and then plummeted again in the last 30 minutes. That was hardly a sign of investor confidence. Panic was more like it.
By closing, the total loss topped 500 points, roughly 4.4 percent of the Dow’s value.
The worst may not be over. The prospect of a possible collapse by insurance giant AIG — the world’s largest insurance company — could make today’s crisis seem almost tame.
The scale of the problem — $75 billion in private money needed to save AIG alone — has shaken even the most sober and experienced of Street investors.
Economic data beyond the financial world was hardly encouraging. According to the Federal Reserve, “industrial production decreased 1.1 percent in August and was revised down in June and July …. factory output was down 1.0 percent in August, in part because of a drop of 11.9 percent in the production of motor vehicles and parts. Excluding motor vehicles and parts, the index for manufacturing decreased 0.3 percent.”
Comments
By Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
September 15, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
It is truly sad how the corrupt, do nothing Democratic Congress ruined the Bush economy which had been so strong for so long after picking up the pieces of 9/11 (a Clinton intelligence failure) and the failed Clinton economy.Reid and Pelosi lied and now many people’s jobs are fried.
By Chaz
September 15, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Obviously, the answer is to elect Obama and socialize the entire economy. Charles Rangel for SEC chairman!
By getalife "exaggerators"
September 15, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Andy did not buy enough Jay.
He will fix it in the morning.
Geez.
By Taxpayer
September 15, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Wow, Byll!
Jay, I guess we’ll have to wait and see if Black Tuesday follows Black Monday. Regardless, at least I think it’s safe to say that we are now on the road to getting this mess resolved. We need to get a few more major companies merged and a few hundred banks in bankruptcy and all will be right with the world in two or three years.
By Bud Wiser
September 15, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
It appears to me also that this whole economy has gone, not only into the crapper like a Chinese Olympic diver, but while the do-nothing Democraps have had control of both House and Senate.
Expect more of the same if Obama is elected, because under what he and his cohorts have demonstrated as ‘leadership’ so far, there will not be anyone left to tax that has any money to pay it with.
Translation for you dimwits - the handout entitlement crowd will go down the crapper first, so electing your boy only hastens your demise.
Obama/Biden ‘08 - making it easy to be stupid… and broke at the same time
By "The Corporal"
September 15, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
What do the top ten cities with the highest poverty rate all have in common?
DEMOCRAT LEADERSHIP!
Detroit , MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
Buffalo , NY (2nd) hasn’t elected one since 1954;
Cincinnati , OH (3rd)… since 1984;
Cleveland , OH (4th)… since 1989;
Miami , FL (5th) has never had a Republican Mayor;
St. Louis , MO (6th)…. since 1949;
El Paso , TX (7th) has never had a Republican Mayor;
Milwaukee , WI (8th)… since 1908;
Philadelphia , PA (9th)… since 1952;
Newark , NJ (10th)… since 1907.
Einstein once said, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
It is the disadvantaged who habitually elect Democrats - And they are still disadvantaged.
By Troll Patrol
September 15, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
Jay,
Don’t sweat it, John McBush has already pronounced that the economy is jusssst fine. He’ll repeat this lie again and again until the rightards here believe it thoroughly.
By Herman
September 15, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
I think what really sent things sliding was that mental picture picture you painted for us earlier “McCain is smearing himself”. Ew.
By JAY BOOKMAN
September 15, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
I’d be curious if Wyld Byll or Bud could cite something that the Democrats have done in a mere 20 months that might have brought on a crisis of this size.
Well, let me rephrase. I’m certain they could cite SOMETHING. They have already demonstrated an Alice in Wonderland mentality that is mind-blowing.
But purely for entertainment value — call it a morbid curiosity to see just how ridiculous they can get — I’d love to see what specific acts by the Democrats might have caused this.
So Byll, Bud — step right up. Let’s see what you got… Anything to brighten a dark day. Show us how the mind of a diehard works.
By RealityKing
September 15, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
It’s just paper..
By Truth
September 15, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
This might not have much to do with “Black Monday, but one thing that I think has hurt the economy is the rise of the minimum wage… but what do I know.
By Herman
September 15, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
What have the Democrats done in the last 20 months to prevent such a meltdown? That’s what I’d like to know. Especially after all the b!tching about Enron and oil company profits…
By Mike
September 15, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
“The federal takeover of mortgage giants Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae may stabilize the economy and help the housing industry. But politicians could take a hit, particularly Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.
Employees of the government-sponsored firms, which own or guarantee half of the nation’s mortgages, have donated almost $4.3 million to federal elected officials and their various campaign committees since 2005.
Obama is the largest individual recipient at about $112,000, federal campaign finance reports show.”
Now, I don’t think that means much, but when I see folks try to pin the current mess exclusively on Republicans, it makes me laugh.
By Midori
September 15, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
They are googling as I type, Jay.
This is gonna be a good one!!!
By RealityKing
September 15, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
Well Jay, history does dictate that the first thing you need to do to bring on a crisis is, nothing. Absolutely nothing…, for 20 straight months.
By Herman
September 15, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
What’s that? The sound of crickets chirping? It’s as quiet around here as Charlie Rangel’s condo…
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Bud, Byll, if you don’t mind, I’ll take it from here:
The energy boondoggle that Oblahma was so proud of when he got all the goodies for Illinois corn growers?
We turned our food into “energy” and at the same time refused to open existing energy sources to supply demand.
Which of course led us directly to rising energy costs, food prices and just about any other industry that relies on fuel raising their prices.
It’s like Duh.
On 11/4/06 gasoline was 2.13 a gallon, today after 2 years of dhimmocrat control it is 4.50.
Geez.
By JAY BOOKMAN
September 15, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
Truth suggests it was that increase in the minimum wage.
I guess all those investment bankers at Lehman Bros. were making minimum wage, and it was the increase in their salaries that drove the company into bankruptcy. Is that how that worked, Truth?
By Taxpayer
September 15, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Toilet paper, RealityKing. Lots of toilet paper. For some reason, my morbid sense of justice being served — hot or cold or whatever — has kicked in to some extent because I know that a lot of those Wall Street geniuses will now pay the price given that much of their income was in stock and that many of them are now unemployed. Working America will be paying for yet another fine mess created by the big boys and their swelled heads. All the while, the politicians, as usual, don’t have a clue — matters such as this are well beyond their pay grades. Too bad that the Boards of Directors and management of many of these companies will still get away relatively unscathed though. Some tar and feathers would go a long way in resolving that problem.
By CJ
September 15, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr said “It is truly sad how the corrupt, do nothing Democratic Congress ruined the Bush economy…”
In fact, the “do nothing” Democratic House has passed scores of bills only to have them bottle-necked in the Senate where the Republicans have blown away the previous record for filibusters specifically to create the perception of a “do nothing Democratic Congress”. Wallowing in his ignorance, Wyld Byll Hyltnyr appears to have fallen for it.
To give an example of just how cynical these Republicans are, they even filibuster bills that they support…again to create the perception of a do nothing Congress. For example, recently the Senate got the 60 votes to break a filibuster, and then 9 of the Republican senators who supported the filibuster, voted for the bill they were trying to block (including Johnny Isakson). Unbelievable.
By getalife "exaggerators"
September 15, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
Your blog is eating my posts.
The blame game will not fix it but that is the best we get with a broken government.
By Truth
September 15, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
Jay… can you read???
This might not have much to do with “Black Monday, but one thing that I think has hurt the economy is the rise of the minimum wage… but what do I know.
I hardly blamed this on minimum wage. All I said was that it do believe that it hurt our economy…. but twist however you would like… slowly!
By TW
September 15, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
It is the disadvantaged who habitually elect Democrats - And they are still disadvantaged.
Georgia went with Republicans all over the place at the start of this decade and they’ve made us more disadvantaged than any Dem ever did. Everyone from ‘w’ right on down to little old Chip Rogers has done nothing but bend over the hard working Georgian people.
By Herman
September 15, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
Not that I think that Democrats would purposely hurt their own country in their pursuit of power but this just in from the NY Post….
WHILE campaigning in public for a speedy withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, Sen. Barack Obama has tried in private to persuade Iraqi leaders to delay an agreement on a draw-down of the American military presence.
According to Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama made his demand for delay a key theme of his discussions with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad in July.
“He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington,” Zebari said in an interview.
OUR SOLDIERS DIE WHILE OBAMA TRIES TO PROLONG THE WAR. IT JUST DOESN’T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT!!
By ByteMe
September 15, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
And, JAY, you should also ask them to justify how they could ask the government to intervene in a day where capitalism and the natural business cycle worked exactly as designed: the poor users of capital got washed away, the smart users got a little bump (e.g., Airtran went up 10% on declining oil prices). Since when did they become socialists without telling us and expect government to offer handouts to the neediest (on Wall Street)?
By Taxpayer
September 15, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
Republicans and Democrats wage battles amongst themselves for control of the big business of government. At least 90% of the politicians probably could not even explain the difference between a shorting a stock and a wash sale. They don’t have a clue. Bush thinks we’re in a soft patch. The idiot.
By CJ
September 15, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Bush was attempting to negotiate permanent U.S. bases and ultimately settled by agreeing to withdrawing on a timetable that is longer than the time table that Obama was seeking (Bush’s 36 months vs. Obama’s 18 months from Jan ‘09).
Do you get why Obama would seek to delay the agreement now, or are you still lost in right-wing spin cycle?
By ByteMe
September 15, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
TW: let’s just say that I doubt the source. Not that I doubt the NY Post (although I do), but if you dig into Mr. Zebari, you’ll find he’s not an Obama supporter, because Obama has proposed a timetable to leave Iraq and Zebari does not want any such constraints on his future actions. Considering the meeting was in June, can we maybe say that this is a suspect quote released 3 months after the meeting.
By JAY BOOKMAN
September 15, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
Ethanol caused it, Management?
Hmmm. Well, Congress did pass the Energy Policy Act, requiring a doubling of the use of renewable fuels by 2012, and also approving billions of dollars of subsidies for ethanol production.
It’s very very very unlikely that had anything to do with the crisis on Wall Street. But let’s assume that it did.
The Energy Policy Act was passed in 2005, with the GOP in control of both the House and Senate. It was signed into law on Aug. 8, 2005 by President Bush.
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Aahhh, yes, let’s blame it on the greedy capitalists, I mean government would do so much better, now wouldn’t they?
Let’s see here, the various municipalities lost revenue during the drought because they were not able to sell as much water as they once did.
Now, a thinking man would realize that less water means less electricity for pumping that water, less chemicals for treating the water, less maintenance on the equipment, why, the whole thing could possibly just snowball into some staff cuts too, gasp, gasp.
Anybody want to tell me what they did instead?
Raised prices.
On you.
Greedy capitalist blood sucking mortgage bankers, you know, all those people that risked their collateral so that we could live in nice new houses, depend on people paying their mortgages on time.
But when people are paying more for energy, food and water, the basic necessities of life, well, it makes it harder for them to pay the mortgage.
And people that work for them.
And taxes.
A great big snowball, ain’t it?
democrats really suck, don’t they?
By Paul
September 15, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Jay 4:45
[[I’d be curious if Wyld Byll or Bud could cite something that the Democrats have done in a mere 20 months that might have brought on a crisis of this size.]]
Dateline September 11, 2001: I’d be curious if anyone could cite something that the Republicans could have done in a mere 8 months that might have averted a crisis of this size.
Well, let me rephrase. I’m certain they could cite something. But purely for entertainment value – call it a morbid curiosity – I’d love to hear the specific acts the Republicans could have taken – revamping the entire intelligence, State, DoD, Justice apparatus, for instance, to addresses the systemic weaknesses covered by the 9-11 Commission – to have averted this specific attack?
Midori
How is your brother doing?
Truth 5:13
Without doing a bunch of research, I kinda think the argument the min wage has/will hurt the economy is the same argument used any time a proposal to increase it is made. And I kinda think the economy, overall, in about this time frame is better than when the minimum wage has been increased during its history. Well, maybe with the exception of the debt. Or the problem with Social Security/Medicare. But don’t worry, Obama has promised to fix it. Ten years from now.
I rather think maybe we should address our secondary ed system so all the noncollege-bound kids graduate with skills to make a living well above minimum wage.
By Taxpayer
September 15, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
So, Andy bought ADM today and solved the world’s problems with genetically modified feed corn, right.
By Dusty
September 15, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
Ho humm I was looking for a political blog and got the BUSINESS PAGES. When did Bookman transfer over? I knew Saporta had left but did not know who took her place.
So now it is Bookman’s Business Bruhaha and Bitter Blogging Bit. So much mojo and monkey business for the errr ..toiling twit of dubious designs.
Bookman’s next added assignment will be in …tada…THE COMICS!!
By Locke
September 15, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
I’m not worried about the 500 point plunge. When Obama is elected we’ll get twice that back.
Andy Young said so.
Of course, I’m not sure he specified which index would go up 1000 points, he just said “the stock market.”
Maybe he was talking about some foreign exchange.
By Ray
September 15, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Too many loans to too many unqualified people sold by greedy financial institutions to anxious mutual fund brokers who sold this same paper to the highest bidder. All Sh** usually rolls downhill but this time, it has gotten so deep that everyone suffers. These greedy Wall Street brokers and bankers have a mutual political affiliation. Can’t be blamed on either party. Just greed, plain and simple, and we are paying the bill. Sort of like the Congress spending our money but they are not regulated except at the ballot box and they have an unlimited budget to do what they wish. My teenage daughter could have done a better job.
By Paul
September 15, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
CJ 5:27
Ummm, I do not believe we need the Iraqis’ permission as to how quickly we leave. Obama was going to end it now, day 1, immediately, remember? This is the first I recall anyone’s used the “if Bush negotiates something with the Iraqis, well, I have to abide by it?” If Obama insisted that Congress be involved in negotiations, heck, we’ll never get out of there.
Leastwise, that’s how I understood the story.
Link: Obama Tried to Stall GIs Iraq Withdrawal
Jay 5:31
Did not the Republican Convention call for scrapping the ethanol mandates? Did the Democrats call for the same? Hmmm, who’s bucking the agribusiness corporations and demanding change?
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Yes indeed, it looks like Jay has figured out what President McCain and Vice President Palin mean when they say “change” and “reform.”
After all, there sure are a lot of corn growers in Arizona, er, or is that Illinois I’m thinking of?:
Senate energy bill contains goodies for Illinois- Wednesday, June 29, 2005- Thee Official Website Of Oblahma, Santa Claus
Ethanol bill fuels food costs-Expect the price of beef, pork, chicken and a host of other goods to go up if the House energy bill becomes law.-CNN
Hmmmm-
Four Senators, Lugar of Indiana, Harkin of Iowa, Obama of Illinois and Dorgan of North Dakota (3 dhimmis) have introduced a new Biofuels Security Act. The United States House passed the Food and Energy Security Act of 2007(H.R. 2419), commonly known as the Farm Bill, which is a $290 billion bill, with higher/increased subsidies for farmers and food stamps for the poor amid rising grocery prices while sprinkling in pet projects that lawmakers can take home to voters this election year. The 318-106 vote for the five-year bill gave supporters 28 more than they need to override a promised veto from President Bush. President Bush is on record stating that the bill is too expensive and generous to farmers, who are now enjoying record earnings.
And finally, all those Republicans that are chanting drill, baby, drill, you reckon that is about an upcoming visit to the dentist?
By JAY BOOKMAN
September 15, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
I’m disappointed � honestly � to see you peddling that Obama nonsense, Paul.
The author of the piece you cite is a strong advocate of a US invasion of Iran (corrected typo) with a long history of false claims, most recently that Jews in Iran were being forced to wear stars on their clothing.
Earlier, he had claimed that Iran’s ambassador to the UN had been part of the group that had seized our embassy in Tehran. Could have been true, except for the fact that in 1979, during the embassy seizure, the ambassador was attending college in California.
By Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
September 15, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
Jay, hope you are well today. Sorry that the response was so slow in coming. Let me try to answer your plaintive wail for one among us to, “cite something that the Democrats have done in a mere 20 months that might have brought on a crisis of this size.” Here’s my stab at quenching your thirst for knowledge: Through their jingoistic chanting of Bush lied; the absence of human deceny and enough respect for America and its warrior soldiers to admit the apparent success of the surge; a towering ignorance and disrespect toward toward Gen Petraeus; a phenominal ability to put politics in front of the good of the citzenry coupled with no an uncanny ability not to address the hard issues, Pelosi and Reid contributed to an environment in which any productive efforts to fix the emerging economic problems could not occur.
Now Jay, you asked for one example. Do you agree with my example opr do you belive that Pelosi and Reid share no blame at all?
By "The Corporal"
September 15, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
BLACK MONDAY
Chicken Little (“the sky is falling, the sky is falling”) Obama and Cocky Locky Biden (new comb on his head) will only head up a Democrat Congress that will further drag down our economy.
I say vote for Ducky Lucky McCain (lucky to be alive) and Foxy Loxy (wow!) Palin and lets keep this country moving forward.
There - how’s that for this nursery rhyme blog?
By JAY BOOKMAN
September 15, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
See guys, I told you the answer would be entertaining!
By Paul
September 15, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
Jay,
Disappointed? Peddling? For reading a story, reading a coment, then providing a link to the actual story that started it all? Frankly, I’d never heard of the guy and figured the New York Post is not quite in the same league as the Times. And I also figured this story would’ve hit quite a while ago - like while he was still on his trip, given the explosive nature of the allegations.
As for the ambassador allegation, hey, he did have dark hair and a beard, right? We all know if we have eyewitness testimony, the trial’s over.
So thanks for the references. I’ll file him in my credibility file with “Chalibi.”
By "The Corporal"
September 15, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
THANKS JAY !!
By getalife
September 15, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
Hilarious Jay.
By jasper
September 15, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this
This is ridiculous. The failure of Banks, Fannie Mae, Freddy Mac, and now investment firms are from the domino effect of predatory lending in the housing market. And this occurred due to lax standards on credit ratings of borrowers. So that disadvantaged folk could buy their first house.
If lenders had stuck to the rule of at least 10% down, steady jobs, and good credit there would be no crisis. Yes there might be a lot of apartment dwellers crying discrimination. But moreover, the desire to live in a house would have created the discipline to save, and not get strung out on credit card debt. The housing industry would have remained stable and not burst like it did when the economy went on a normal and cyclical downturn.
Government oversight might have helped, but still no substitute for common sense.
By Paul
September 15, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
Oh, Jay,
As long as you’re here reading and I’m pretty sure you’ll see this, I would have thought Gov Palin’s performance in her last interview with Gibson would have reassured you she has all the experience necessary to be President. She amply demonstrated how masterfully experienced she is. When offered the clear opportunity to unequivocally set the record straight, in her own words, regarding the controversies, accusations, denials and claims regarding “The Bridge” and earmarks,
she proved her masterful experience as the dodged, hedged, misdirected, deflected, turned attention on to her opponents, and all in all made the points she wanted to make regardless of the questions (shades of a debating Jimmy Carter). Yup, all in all, I’d say she well demonstrated the experience necessary for election to our second-highest office!
By Bud Wiser
September 15, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
Well Jay, I could ask you what they have done to forestall this situation, but they are more concerned with no-drill no-drill let’s pay the Saudis and OPEC everything they ask, just so we keep our shores and trees and Alaskan North Slope clean.
Gas prices are almost double what they were 2 years ago. What has Congress done? Nothing. Nixon tried price controls, but they did not work well, but at least he tried something. Congress does nothing.
Food prices are up 40% in 2 years. What has Congress done? Nothing.
Discretionary spending is UP. Congress authorized that.
Pork spending is out of control. Congress did that.
Farm subsidies for ethanol is a black hole. Farm subsidies for no farming at all, Congress does that.
Do your own research for the numbers Jay, I don’t have the time or inclination to do your work for you since I don’t get paid for it. Congress writes the budget every year and submits it to the President. That’s the way it works. Any defict spending is created by them, so in effect they hold partial responsibility for this financial problem, by lack of oversight if nothing else.
Obama/Biden ‘08- making it easy to be stupid
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
Hahaha, yesterday we quoted him now today we are disputing him, isn’t that special?:
The rise in the cost of imported oil has already had some negative consequences on the economy this year, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said Friday.-2004
“So far this year, the rise in the value of imported oil - essentially a tax on U.S. residents - has amounted to about three quarters of one percent of GDP,” Greenspan said in a speech to the National Italian American Foundation.
Greenspan said the risks of more serious negative consequences would intensify if oil prices were to move “materially higher.”
The man knows what he speaks of.
bwa
By Taxpayer
September 15, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
You are right, Jay. The government could have done things many years, likely four or five years or more, ago that might have had a chance at reducing the damage done by the collapse of this debt bubble but there were not many, if any, viable options available to government within the last 20 months — that are considered legal anyway.
By N-GA
September 15, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
Jay,
It’s your blog, so you can pose any question you like.
For my money, the more important question is “What must be done to fix our economic problems?”
SO far, EVERYTHING the government has done addresses symptoms. Nothing curative has been suggested at all.
BTW, the correct answer to my question is “Pain”. I’ll let you figure out what I mean by that.
By CJ
September 15, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
Paul said, “This is the first I recall anyone’s used the ‘if Bush negotiates something with the Iraqis, well, I have to abide by it?’”
That’s because you’re ideologically aligned with the right-wing.
I know that Bush doesn’t hesitate to violate international agreements which were legally implemented by previous administrations, including Republican administrations. However, that doesn’t mean that subsequent presidents have the same lack of respect for our contractual obligations, the rule of law and/or our partners/allies. Thankfully, most administrations aren’t like Bush’s in this regard. Otherwise, any such agreements wouldn’t be worth the paper their written on and our credibility would be shot forever.
By getalife
September 15, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
Its a crisis.
Where is the leadership and solutions?
Call the Clintons.
By Paul
September 15, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
N-GA 6:31
Which is why I’m extremely doubtful. We want others to have the pain. Not ourselves. And politicians want to get elected and know the consequences of invoking pain. Which is why I repeatedly state McCain’s not going to get any more specific on SS/Medicare (after getting excoriated by his opponent for wanting to privatize SS, cut benefits, etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseum) and why Obama said “I’ve given you my solution. You’ll see it enacted in oh, ten years.”
“If I didn’t laugh I’d be a complete cynic.”
By marko
September 15, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
The founding fathers did’nt have a lot of confidence in human nature that’s why our system was created to balance the powers more or less equally between the three branches of government. Billionaires had’nt been invented yet in the 1700’s so the founders never proposed measures that might be needed to keep wealthy retards from driving the country into the ditch. Once and for all understand that God did not create a race of men so good or pure that they needed no checks or balances. blaming this mess on a do nothing democratic congress is weak beyond belief. Wealth does’nt make a man virtuous any more than poverty makes him evil. according to to guys nothing is what congress is supposed to do with regard to the private sector. If you want to be consistent you should be congradulating our useless congressmen for doing their jobs.
By Paul
September 15, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
CJ
[[That’s because you’re ideologically aligned with the right-wing.]]
Did you miss my comments on the minimum wage? Education reform? Withdrawal from the Persian Gulf (not just Iraq - but the Gulf - which I don’t recall McCain or Obama making a hard case for. Slashing the Defense budget?
Ideology: when facts don’t get in the way of opinions.
By RealityKing
September 15, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
It was the result of poor management, plain and simple.
Poor management on the part of the financial institutions, the people given the opprotunity at easy capital, and the stock holders chasing unbelieveable deals. This is not governments responsibility or obligation to correct. Let the chips fall where they may, it’s the capitalist thing to do. Heck, some might even call it a buying opprotunity..
By Paul
September 15, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
CJ 6:32
I just read your last paragraph. You are not seriously saying that in such areas as troop levels that we ‘contractually negotiate and are bound by’ the troop levels we maintain in a host country? Before you answer: think 1990s reductions in Europe and the drawdowns announced for S Korea and Germany in, oh, 2003.
I believe you misinterpret. Or is maintaining a worldwide military presence because we have ‘contracts’ part of the Left’s ideology?!!? ‘cause if it is, I’ll gladly align with the Right. Wait, no. You both have the same ideology here -
By CJ
September 15, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
No Paul @6:49, I’m not familiar with you’re body of work. Just be aware that when you spread misinformation reported by a Rupert Murdoch publication, then you’re going to leave an impression.
By CJ
September 15, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
No Paul @6:49, I’m not familiar with your body of work. Just be aware that when you spread misinformation reported by a Rupert Murdoch publication, then you’re going to leave an impression.
By N-GA
September 15, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this
Paul,
Since WWII, the world’s financial system has depended upon a strong dollar. As a direct consequence, Americans have had the good fortune of being able to live high-on-the-hog because there has been a certain amount of value to the dollar that exceeded the real/earned value. This was the premium that the world was willing to pay for financial stability.
To some extent, the collapse of the USSR can be tied to the defeat of the Ruble by the Dollar. The foreign reserves of the USSR melted away as they tried to succeed with a morbidly inefficient economic system.
If we tie all that together with poor trade policies, poor energy policies, poor oversight of the financial institutions, corporate greed, low savings rates, etc., there was only one possible result. And I agree with Warren Buffet: It’s going to be long and deep…
By Paul
September 15, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
CJ
Did I not say I was not familiar with the author? And took note of the publication? Not because it is owned by a certain individual, but because of its general tenor?
You may want to consider how you may restrict your freedom of thought by following “he posted this, this is the owner, he must agree” line of thought.
In other words, concentrate on the allegation, the story - not the publisher or the messenger. Even Michael Moore can have a valid point.
By Ray
September 15, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
Greed, pure and simple. Not too long ago, you could not borrow money on a house unless the house payment didn’t exceed 20% of your gross income. Then it went to 15%, then 10% and then you didn’t have to put a single dollar down, just move in. Lots of “variable rates”. The signer didn’t have the knowledge to know what that meant, the lender just wanted the signature on the bottom line and the new owner moved into a bigger house, stretched his credit (if he ever had any) to the max and depended on his job to pay the bills. Economy goes sour, jobs are lost, houses go into default, foreclosures are made and then the borrower says take it, I can’t pay for it. Equity in homes goes down along with appraised value. Lots of homes on the market but no one with money. Homes are worth less than what they were purchased for. Sh** begins to roll downhill but then reverses course and goes uphill. Greedy Wall Street firms with CEOs that want to make a lot of money underwrote these loans or bought the paper at a discount and hoped to turn it and make a killing. People start to ask embarrassing questions when their margins get questionable. Bottom lines start to suffer. CEOs get nervous and begin to look for some help. Negotiations begin with the Fed for some real help. Leamann(sp) along with many others gets nervous because they have over extended themselves. The rest is history. Dow down 400 pt today, 20+K Leamann employees out of work and the market in chaos. All because of greed, plain and simple.
By CJ
September 15, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
I apologize for the double-click at 7:02 and 7:03.
Paul—
We’re going in circles .
The fact is that Bush was not negotiating to bring the troops home sooner; he was attempting to keep them there longer.
If you think that the agreement that Bush was negotiating/has negotiated is not bound to his successor, then why are you complaining about Obama’s alleged attempt to kill it? What’s the problem?
By Paul
September 15, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
N-GA
That’s as succinct a summary as I’ve seen. I find it troubling, though, that as I understand the candidates’ positions, I do not see consistency in addressing the problems you cite in the last paragraph. Obama’s and the Dems shifts on free trade agreements (or is free trade a contributing factor?). McCain’s seeming reluctance on oversight? Obama’s substituting regulation for oversight? I mean, laws vs the inspectors and institutions to follow up. Obama ‘tax credits’ which are really a transfer of funds to people who pay little or no tax and that impact on the savings rate. McCain’s (I’m on thin ice, here) denunciation of corporate greed and a call to have’em pay back their ill-gottten gains while recruiting as advisors the same people who were in the thick of it?
Nov is a moving target -
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
Top Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008
Name Office Party/State Total
Dodd, Christopher J S D-CT $133,900
Kerry, John S D-MA $111,000
Obama, Barack S D-IL $105,849
Clinton, Hillary S D-NY $75,550
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
Friends of Lehman
Obama has raised a full $395,574 from employees and PACs of the now-bankrupt Lehman brothers, second only to Hillary Clinton.
By Paul
September 15, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
CJ
I found the article poorly written. It seemed to say the draft accord provides a binding agreement on withdrawal rates. I do not believe it does. It may affect interactions of US forces with Iraqi military and government. But that still does not affect the withdrawal rate. Neither does basing (Obama will wants a significant number in Iraq and significant others moved elsewhere, not just Afghanistan).
But I understood your earlier post to say any incoming Administration would be bound by any agreements. I believe such agreements can and should be abrogated by an incoming administration if they do not serve America’s interest. I do not see it as having anything to do with international law. If a new administration inherits a cesspool and an agreement on how to keep it going, they should consider other options.
But if, as the article states, putting off concluding such agreements does in fact slow down the withdrawal of US forces, then that allegation should be proved or dismissed, regardless of who owns the publication.
By JAY BOOKMAN
September 15, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
Gee, Management, who knew there were so many “socialists” on Wall Street!!
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
It is giving credence to the mismanagement angle, ain’t it?
By N-GA
September 15, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
Paul,
Neither candidate has done what a Roosevelt or Churchill would do…that is prepare the public for pain and sacrifice. We Americans must re-learn how to live. And that, my friend, is a topic for another day.
My wife & I made a very large pot of homemade spaghetti sauce with red bell peppers, Walla-Walla sweet onions, fresh basil, etc., sweet & hot sausages, meatballs, pork loin, and I am pouring a 2001 Fanti Tenuta San Filippo Brunello di Montalcino. SO forgive me, but I’m off to partake.
Cheers!
By Goldie
September 15, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
I find it hilarious that Sarah Failin is out there today talkin’ about those “greedy corporate CEOs with their golden parachutes” — and how she and John McBush are “gonna put a stop to it!” She’s going way off script today!
Oh, the desperation is palpable!
By Taxpayer
September 15, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
All that money from employees at the financial institutions directed to Democrats. They were certainly trying to send a message to someone that would help save their companies from mis-management before it was too late. Too bad that the executives and Boards of Directors will walk away with the least damage of all those that were hurt.
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
Unreal, N-GA somberly announces the end of American greatness and says that we will all have to suffer from now on and then he pours 200 bucks into a frying pan and proceeds to stuff it all into his face.
Liberals are laugh a minute.
By getalife
September 15, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
Ideology: when facts don’t get in the way of opinions.
Very good Paul.
Greed, pure and simple.
How about that? Ray got one right.
Andy,
Now post the gop donations, you ideologue, partisan, hack.
Just for fair and balance, if you will.
By N-GA
September 15, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Andy,
What would you have me do? Donate to your Depends fund?
You are just a bedwetting loser….
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
al-Gitmo: But that would endanger the developing storyline^^.
And trap that I have set.
By Midori
September 15, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
Now post the gop donations, you ideologue, partisan, hack.
LOL!!!!
I love you, Getalife.
You keep me smiling :)
By getalife
September 15, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
Midori,
Good :)
Did your brother call yet?
By ByteMe
September 15, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Ray, you put together a really succinct explanation, but you need to consider two more points:
How the rating agencies (S&P and Moody’s) played an enabling role by allowing the investment houses to bundle subprime and Alt-A mortgages into mortgage-backed securities that had AAA ratings. Why these guys aren’t being sued is amazing to me.
How the less-than-regulated derivatives market played a role in the Fed’s assistance during the Bear Stearns meltdown. Here’s a quick tidbit: JP Morgan — who ended up with BS — owned trillions of BS derivatives and would also have gone under had they not gotten Fed help in buying BS.
This stuff ain’t simple, but it’s really really important to understand how things got so interconnected and out of whack.
By Ray
September 15, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this
In my haste to post the above, I did not mention a couple of things that amplify what was written. This is one venue where government can step in and do what government is meant to do, keep people honest in the face of abject greed. Government cannot intervene in every private financial transaction but protecting the unsuspecting public might be a function that some of us might shun. There is little doubt that these shills in the financial markets took these people for a ride. They couldn’t have done this with an educated, informed segment who reads every word, but we are all not that smart. Is it the government’s job in the financial markets to protect the public from bad decisions? All of us who invest and use the markets for gain have screwed up at some time, either from our own bad judgement or from being taken by a very ambitious, calculating and intent market. Where does it all end?
By Midori
September 15, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this
nope - not yet.
his home phone gives this weird “busy” signal, and his cell phone cuts off after just 2 or 3 rings….
just have to just keep waiting to hear from him.
By Taxpayer
September 15, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
There’s sleaze and then there’s this Republican and former economic advisor for John McCain.
“I’m carrying so much pork [home to Texas] I’m beginning to get trichinosis.” — Phil Gramm
If you want to learn more about credit default swaps and the fine mess that Phil Gramm got us into way back in December of 2000, then read on here. Phil Gramm is out of the picture but not because of some stupid slip of the tongue. It was a much much bigger slip than that.
By Mike
September 15, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
How can Bookman and the rest of the GOP bashers continue to try to claim that Democrats have nothing to do with the problems on Wall Street?
“Campaign funds from Lehman employees Obama’s campaign treasury has collected nearly $400,000 in campaign contributions from employees of Lehman Brothers, while McCain campaign has $145,000, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a non-partisan research group.
Democratic activist and author David Sirota said the opportunity was there to make this campaign a more populist one.
“The Wall Street crisis presents a political opportunity for either of the candidates to seize the mantle of populist reform — but it’s not clear either of them will, for similar reasons,” said Sirota.
“McCain could position himself as a Teddy Roosevelt Republican by talking tough about regulation, but he won’t because it would offend the money wing of his own party. Obama could cite the crisis as a perfect example of what Democrats will crack down on if he wins the presidency, but he may hesitate because he has raised a huge amount of cash from Wall Street.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26723715/
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
For Britt Hatch, a volunteer for the Obama campaign in New Hampshire, the past two weeks of the US presidential race have come as an unwelcome surprise.
“I had become complacent,” she whined. “I thought the election was in the bag. Then, all of a sudden, we’ve got this big fight on our hands.”
“I’m very worried because we’ve seen this movie before,” moaned Robert Spurrier, a school teacher. “The Republican attack machine shifts the election away from issues and turns it into a battle of personalities.”
“He’s got to show he can stick up for himself,” sniffed Gail Sommer, another teacher. “But he needs to do it in a way that’s truthful and honorable and gets us back on the issues.”
Yeah, good luck with that.
Buh bye barry.
By ByteMe
September 15, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
“sniffed”? “whined”?
Nah, no bias in your articles, AJC/DNC. None at all.
By Mike
September 15, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
There is a great article at the NYT site that compares Obama’s and McCain’s positions on scientuific matters. For all of the yammering, it looks like their views on global warming and energy policy are nearly identical.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/science/16science.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
It’s the kind of meaningful and susbstantive analysis that the AJC doesn’t provide because they are giving the spotlight to partisan hacks.
By Taxpayer
September 15, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
If any one person in government can be blamed for the messes wrought on us by Enron and by the sub-prime meltdown and the bursting of the over-inflated credit bubble, it would have to be Phil Gramm. Our government needs to learn a lesson from Phil Gramm’s actions just like all those people that signed a loan agreement without reading and understanding what they signed — next time, read all 262 pages of the last-minute legislation and understand it before you sign it into law. Do us taxpayers a favor, do the job that WE pay you to do.
By AJC/DNC Management
September 15, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
BiteMe: Actually, that was a Whiney Times article that I edited a few things in myself.
Seems almost professional, don’t it?
By Taxpayer
September 15, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Still unconvinced about Phil Gramm. There’s plenty out there about this Republican leader of the deregulation effort. Here’s some more.
By Mike
September 15, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
The market averages 8% per year. That means it doubles every 9 years.
It was 800 in 1982 so it should have doubled about three times since.
Let’s see, that means we should be around 6400 right now.
Back to reality folks.
By ByteMe
September 15, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
Mike, I agree that their energy policies are likely similar, although I think we’ll get where we want to go energy-wise faster with Obama, since he wants to put more money upfront into new technologies and energy sources faster than McCain.
On scientific policy, I’d also agree that I think both of them are similar. The wildcard, though, is McCain’s health, since we’re pretty sure Palin’s view of science is more 16th century than 21st century.
By ByteMe
September 15, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this
Mike you’re comparing the market average gain to the DOW value, which is apples and oranges. Better to compare to the Russell 2000 or even S&P 500, although with the way all these indexes are weighted to favor the larger stocks, I’m not sure the numbers make any sense anyway.
By Hillbilly Deluxe
September 15, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
First off I don’t claim to be an expert on high finance. Given the Fed bailout of Bear Stearns and then Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, I wonder what the liquidity situation of the Fed is at this point.
In my opinion the entire Federal government has been asleep at the switch for years. They’ve let people play fast and loose for a long time. Most people have seen this coming for a long time. The people who were playing the game were also the rulemakers and referees. Not a good formula. People figured out how to make large amounts of money with smoke and mirrors and nobody was riding herd on them. Now the house of cards is starting to fall.
Don’t worry about the CEO’s though they’ll be fine. Look at Bob Nardelli. We all know about all the millions he got from Home Depot. Under his watch market share went down, sales went down, profits went down, stock prices went down, pretty much everything you measure success by. Now he is Chairman and CEO of Chrysler. Wish I could land on my feet like that.
I’d love to see the fat cats that are responsible for the Wall Street mess take the fall. We all know that won’t happen though. Whatever pain is involved will be spread among the ordinary people just as it always is.
Wouldn’t it be grand if all the incumbents in the House and Senate were sent packing this year? True we might lose a few good ones but it would be well worth it to clean out the deadwood.
By "The Corporal"
September 15, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
JAY
Here’s another one …………….
Who am I?
I am under 45 years old, I love the outdoors, I hunt, I am a Republican reformer, I have taken on the Republican Party establishment, I have many children, I have a spot on the national ticket as vice president with less than two years in the governor’s office.
Who am I?
Did you guess?
Scroll down……
Teddy Roosevelt
By Black being used as a Negative
September 15, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this
Stop calling it Black when you White folks screw things up. I’m Black and there are plenty of other words in webster’s that could be used. So when it’s good days on wall street i guess those are white days. Subliminal messages are very powerful but I guess you white folkkks understand that and that’s why u try 2 use them so inconspicuously. Stop referring to negative situations as Black!!!!
By "The Corporal"
September 15, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
To: Black being used as a Negative
2 Peter 2:17 “These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.”
If you have trouble with this one please contact GOD.
P.S. I tried to figure out how to make the bold type above white but I couldn’t …………… :o)
By Tom
September 15, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
.
We need massive tax cuts for big oil companies immediately!
Of course one of the key components to this price prediction is global recession.
Gas will be cheap because we won’t be driving our cars to work.
Be careful what you ask for.
Oil is too cheap now for new drilling in the USA. Drill in Nigeria and rent an oil tanker.
I like Hess. I hate CITGO. Venezuela owns CITGO and is basing long range Russian bombers.
Who needs oil when nobody has jobs.
LEH dead. MER dead. AIG dead. WAMU dead.
Today might mark the beginning of the next Great Depression and the watershed moment for demise of the United States. All the US Treasury moves to date regarding the financial/credit crisis have been to protect foreign investors. Can we keep the foreigners happy?
….Or it could just be a lousy day on the global stock markets.
Dow Closed down 504.48, Or 4.42% Oil Closed down $5.47 or down 5.41%.
Of course local gas prices went up another 20 cents a gallon today.
Our national debt is a staggering $10 TRILLION !
We’re going into a global recession …
$65 oil is coming …
The price of oil falling is really quite simple. Nobody wants to buy $95 oil right now because in 6 months you can buy the same oil for $25 once the worldwide Great Depression 2 starts.
OPEC is slowing production, drilling off Florida, off California, and in ANWR are dead topics, hybrid cars are now only for metrosexuals, and wind and solar energy is useless.
If oil traders thought the worldwide economy was going to be cranking in 6 months, everyone would be rushing to buy $95 oil now before it got back to $150.
Oil futures prices are always forward looking. The future looks bad.
.
By Famuan
September 16, 2008 5:59 AM | Link to this
Dont worry - this is just in our imagination….its only mental.
By Liar-loan McCain
September 16, 2008 7:13 AM | Link to this
Jay Nookwood sure is easily amused.
Alan Greenspan was interviewed on This Week last Sunday, and he weighed in on the mess. I understand relativity better than I understood what he said. He did say he wouldn’t bet on the markets short term. I think. He says things and then says the opposite in the same sentence.
The point is that if this securites debacle cant be explained to anyone’s understanding, then that is the point. Would you put more money in the markets without a reasonable expectation that smart money had a reasonable expectation?
The avalanche of collapsing brokerage houses, banks, mortgage institutions have eroded the intrinsic trust it takes to find suckers. Futures need a future, at least a perception of a future, and that’s been downgraded by mom and pop peoria. The bottom in 2002 was about 7500 dow, 1200 nasdaq.
By Michael
September 16, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this
I think it’s great that the financial investment firms, are finally fa