Home > Jay Bookman > Archives > 2008 > August > 25 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USWhat if Atlanta just disappeared?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
In the morality tale spun by public officials in Florida and Alabama, big, bad overdeveloped metro Atlanta is sucking up all the water out of the Chattahoochee watershed, leaving little or none for downstream mussels, oysters, farmers, power plants and those all-important barge operators.
The story has little or no basis in fact, and no support in the data. But it does sound good, and it casts metro Atlanta as a useful villain that officials in other states can claim to be fighting on behalf of their constituents.
To understand why the story is false, or at the very least overblown, it’s important to understand the distinction between water use and water consumption.
Imagine that we withdraw 100 gallons of water from a river, stream or lake, use that water, and then treat it and return the same 100 gallons to its source. In that theoretical case, there is no net loss of water available for downstream users. No water is consumed.
However, if we withdraw 100 gallons but return only 60 gallons — using the rest to water lawns and landscaping and golf courses, for example — we have consumed 40 gallons of water that is not available downstream.
Metro Atlanta does use a substantial amount of water, and that amount has increased as the metro area has grown. That’s undeniable. But in 2007, according to state figures, 60 percent of that water was used, treated and put back into the watershed. Our consumption of water, versus our use of water, was relatively small.
In fact, James Hairston, a professor at Auburn University and a nationally recognized expert in irrigation and water use, puts our water consumption in a context that is rather startling.
In general, Hairston says, an acre of rural land with no development — an acre covered with trees, brush, kudzu and other natural vegetation — consumes more water than an acre of developed land.
How is that possible?
Natural vegetation consumes a lot of water, Hairston explained. Rainfall that would otherwise make its way into a stream or creek is sucked up out of the ground by trees and other plants, and then lost into the air through transpiration. As I found later, a single large tree can pull several hundred gallons of water out of the ground on a hot day, and then evaporate that water through its leaves.
That’s several hundred gallons that will not make its way into streams, creeks and rivers for use downstream. It is water that is consumed.
So let me get this straight, I asked Hairston. If metro Atlanta didn’t exist — if instead this entire region were returned to undeveloped countryside covered with trees and natural vegetation, as many of its critics would apparently prefer — this region would take more water from downstream users than it does today as a major city?
“Exactly,” Hairston said.
On an annual basis, Hairston said, undeveloped land will also consume more water than irrigated farmland, because irrigation occurs only during the growing season, and only to supplement rainfall, while natural vegetation consumes water all year long.
Here’s another way to measure metro Atlanta’s impact on water supplies in Florida, where the city is blamed by some for cutting the flow of much-needed fresh water into Apalachicola Bay.
Metro water consumption is always highest in the summer, and in July 2006 metro Atlanta consumed an average of 287 million gallons a day from the Chattahoochee watershed. That sounds like a lot. However, farmers in the Flint River basin — which also flows into Apalachicola Bay — drew an average of 250 million gallons a day from surface water and another 950 million gallons a day from the shallow underlying aquifer to irrigate crops. Almost all of that was consumptive use.
Again, that was in 2006. Since then, metro Atlanta’s consumptive use has dropped considerably. Water use has dropped by roughly 20 percent, and water consumption has no doubt dropped even further, since much of that reduction has come from less outdoor watering, a highly consumptive use.
Metro Atlanta does have a responsibility to use its water resources more wisely. While we’ve made progress, we have more to do. Nonetheless, some of our critics in other states insist that our only option is to lock the gates against newcomers and growth.
And as Hairston put it, “That is so stupid it doesn’t even make sense.”
.JPG)
-1.JPG)
Services »
Comments
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 6:40 AM | Link to this
You might want to check with Florida and Alabama about whether they want more water right now.
They might just be willing to send some of it to us, if they could.
Got Tennessee River?
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 6:58 AM | Link to this
THE PHONY SHOW at the Pepsi Center will be perfectly matched by the phony protests outside. Saturday, Denver police asked one protester to move his car after he illegally parked near Civic Center Park.
“The police want so badly to crack some skulls. It’s so obvious,” the protester told reporters, as if regretting his failure to give them an excuse.
Oh, the coming “drama.”
By ByteMe
August 25, 2008 7:00 AM | Link to this
The real problem is that humans have a limited long-term memory.
We’ve had droughts before. Back in the late ‘80’s, Lake Lanier dropped over 13 feet, if I remember right, and it took nearly a month where it rained daily to break the drought. But we didn’t put any structural changes in place to prevent it from happening again, so of course it happened again. And it will happen again, but I still don’t see anything truly structural being put in place to prevent it. If we’re indeed in for a warmer than normal period of history, we will likely have higher water consumption going forward, so we should take steps now to adjust things.
Same thing with oil. It took oil going to $145/barrel to make consumers get out of their SUVs and start looking seriously at alternatives. But it’s likely that oil will return to $90 or less in the next 6 months as the recession lingers into next year. Will we forget and go back to sitting in our SUVs in traffic? Nothing structural has been put in place to keep us from doing “stupid” again.
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 7:08 AM | Link to this
The fight over offshore drilling is playing to the same script. Despite solid public majorities showing a sharp turn in favor of exploiting the nation’s oil reserves, a Democratic Congress chained to carbon-phobic environmental groups has refused to allow even a vote on drilling. This fiasco has given House Democrats a black eye. No matter. The party’s special interests have the last word. The first word from these interests — Big Labor, the teachers unions, environmentalists or the trial lawyers — is: Do our bidding or we will make you pay at the polls.
This is the crowd that will be dancing in Denver. The Congressional Democrats have moved left on taxes and left on trade; they propose a significant federalization of health insurance and propose to resurrect the regulatory state.
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this
“Ladies and gentleman, the coverage of Barack Obama was embarrassing,” said Rendell, in the ballroom at Denver’s Brown Palace Hotel. “It was embarrassing.”
Rendell, an ardent Hillary Rodham Clinton supporter during the primaries, now backs Obama in the general election. Brokaw and Rendell began debating campaign coverage, including the on-air comments by Lee Cowan, and when MSNBC came up, Rendell went after the cable network.
“MSNBC was the official network of the Obama campaign,” Rendell said, who called their coverage “absolutely embarrassing.”
If this guy read the AJC/DNC he would probably pass out.
By LOLO
August 25, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this
Wow Jay, this is a well researched and insightly piece from you. Good job.
Now if you’ll apply this same outside of the box thinking to the FAIR tax plan, you’ll really be on to something.
By Mike H
August 25, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this
Good one Bookman - now if you could just apply that sudden burst of common sense to your understanding of income taxation vs. “you know what”, then you’ll really be onto something! (IT’S NOT +30%)
By Shawny
August 25, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this
so now that we are going to get some flooding in the region this week, can we shut off the valve feeding downstream so that the lake can fill again?
By Mrs. Godzilla
August 25, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
So Jay….did you break 80?
By FrankLeeDarling
August 25, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
Here is a joke for you.
Q:what is Georgia without Atlanta?
A: Mississippi
By JAY BOOKMAN
August 25, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this
No, Mrs. G, that is still a mountain unclimbed for me…
By zeke
August 25, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
This expert is not thinking intelligently! If a tree takes water out of the ground, then releases it into the atmosphere through evaporation, there is little if any net loss!! Wake up, this is an agenda! Just like the global warming hoax, it is stated to meet an agenda!
By ByteMe
August 25, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this
Jay, I would have been stunned if you had broken 80 with the weather the way the wind was playing out there. Good kite-flying day, though.
By Taxpayer
August 25, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Jay. I’m trying this post again without the link.
You’ve picked an interesting topic to start off the day. One that has many aspects. Just out of curiosity, have you given much attention to the stuff that is not returned to the waterways after treatment. All sorts of old cliches start coming to mind like “Waste not want not” and “You are what you eat”. Sewage, septage, farm and other wastes also grow along with the population and we really need to make sure that they get the level of attention that they deserve. Water is just a small piece of the pie. The following excerpt from sustainabletable.org/issues/waste/ might serve to whet you appetite: “The USDA estimates that more than 335 million tons of “dry matter” wastes are produced annually on farms in the United States, representing almost a third of the total municipal and industrial waste produced every year.” Well, that’s one-third of what’s “produced”. I like the sound of the word “produced” even though humans and animals don’t actually “produce” this stuff but I digress. Then, of course, one needs to look at just how all three-thirds of what’s “produced” gets handled. There’s your septage and sewage from residential, commercial, industrial, and farm sites with each having its own specific makeup and needs…at one time, a lot of this stuff was just dumped out at sea. Then we learned that we might not want to keep doing things like that. If we don’t dump it all out at sea though what will we do with it….
By Mrs. Godzilla
August 25, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
Mr. G didn’t either….
Lil’ bit of arthritis in his grip these days.
By JAY BOOKMAN
August 25, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
BYTEME, the vicious hook I’ve developed was a bigger villain than the weather, I’m afraid.
By ellis
August 25, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this
what if atlanta disappeared? the rest of the state would rejoice. when i heard the russians were invading georgia, i was hoping they’d burn atlanta.
the rest of the state and other states should not have to suffer because atlanta can’t say no to development beyond what the resources in their area can support.
By Daedalus
August 25, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this
If Atlanta disappeared four things would happen:
(1) All the conservatives in this state would rejoice like it was Christmas since there would be no more gays, lesbians, liberals, progressives and race-mixers to sully our proud Southern Heritage;
(2) All conservative politicians in South Georgia, the Governor’s mansion, the Exurbs and North Georgia would no longer be able to siphon of tax dollars from Atlanta taxpayers;
(3) All of the conservative local governments in Georgia (i.e., all of them outside 285) would go into default as they do not collect enough local taxes to maintain their own infrastructure; and
(4) All of the conservatives in Georgia would wish like hell that Atlanta would come back so they can have someone to hate, and to siphon off Atlanta’s tax dolars since conservatives are incapable of understanding that infrastructure, schools, fire and police protection actually cost money.
By Bosch
August 25, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
Good morning bloggers.
Not sure what Jay and Mrs. G and ByteMe are talking about - 80 and hooks and arthritis?
Anyway, water, or lack thereof, certainly didn’t seem to be an issue this weekend - nothing like soccer games in the rain. Yes sir re - wet, stinky, soccer clothes. Makes the sinuses dance with joy.
Totally off subject - Joe Biden? Wow! Didn’t see that one coming, but I like Joe (and he has a good dog who has the same name, right Mrs. G?)
But back on subject - this past November when the local yahoos were running for election on the city/county boards, the ones I met, the only question I asked was their position on developing and water use.
If you don’t have the water to support the community, it’s time to stop building.
But then again, I wonder how China deals with water issues - like in Beijing, Shanghai, those places. Hmmm, curious.
By Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
August 25, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
Jay, you’re sounding pretty rational and reasonable today. So much so, that you appear to be a new clear thinking person. Can I get an address where I can send you an “I stand with W” bumoersticker?
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Once regarded as a centrist, Mr. Biden was rated by the National Journal in 2007 as the third most liberal member of the Senate. Mr. Obama was rated the most liberal. Neither has a record of bucking the wishes of liberal interest groups or promoting bipartisanship.
By @@
August 25, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
Well there ‘ya go Jay! Hairston responds with some good ol’ common sense. May I offer a suggestion? Certainly I may……
Plant more liberals green side down — head first.
Problem solved.
By ByteMe
August 25, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
Bosch: we’re chatting about golf.
As to the question you asked the yahoos, did you get anything that sounded like an informed answer from any of them?
By Bosch
August 25, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
ByteMe -
OOOHHH, golf. Know nothing about it except you hit a little ball in a little hole with long, curved metal sticks — but you do get to ride around in cool golf carts and drink beer. I like that part of the game.
Local yahoos? Are you kidding. The answer is - nope. They all sounded like they had memorized the same memo. I envisioned them thinking “What? Water? What’s the problem? You turn on the faucet, and it comes out.”
By JR
August 25, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Hi Jay I enjoyed the CNN debate, I was hoping for a longer one but maybe that’s in the future. I really appreciated you saying a lot of Conservatives were against the Fairtax, Too many times people think just because you are a Conservative you listen to Neal Boortz and support the fairtax. I thought Boortz and Linder came across as very stupid people. Boortz contradicted his own book and Linder stated things that are not in the bill. I now wonder who wrote the Bill for Linder and who wrote the book for Boortz?
By Taxpayer
August 25, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
My wife referred to Fay as a Democratic Party, of sorts. She said that this storm takes the excesses from one area and distributes its new-found wealth amongst the many. Like heaven and hell though, you cannot have one without the other (can you?) so when you have something that hogs everything for the benefit of a few, then you must have the makings of a Republican Party. Of course, that line of thought can quickly lead into yet another cliche, “Be careful what you ask for”, for you might end up with a multitude of third-party distractions. Lumped together, they might be referred to as purgatory.
Also, if Atlanta disappeared, 1) what would become of my Alma Mater and who would those Dawgs turn their attention to (they would surely be lost without us), 2) what would we need a GaDOT for other than to siphon off billions of taxpayer dollars to use for anything that does not address transportation issues, then again… and 3) is it just me or is no one else concerned about the corresponding disappearance of the gold-domed ones.
By GodHatesTrash
August 25, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
Back from a beautiful weekend in the Berkshires…
So unlike the North Georgia mountains - no shacks, no trailers, no wrecked cars, no crowds of fat ugly toothless dirty people, just a wonderful ambiance.
The ceremony was beautiful - outdoors by a lake, 70 or so beautiful degrees, a few puffy clouds in the pale blue sky, a pair of eagles soaring in circles over the water. Peace and prosperity - so unlike the North Georgia mountains.
The women wrote their own vows - promising never to call each other the c-word or trollop in public in anger, never to leave their marriage for a younger richer woman, to never steal money from their family members, to always know how many houses they owned, to pay their property taxes promptly no matter how rich they got…
And to never, ever, surrender….
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
“There is an agreement actually reached, reached between the two parties on a fixed date which is the end of 2011 to end any foreign presence on Iraqi soil,” Maliki said in a speech to tribal leaders in the Baghdad’s heavily fortified Green Zone.
Oblahma’s plan, eh?
End of 2011- 36 months from January 2009.
Oblahma’s plan- 16 months from January 2009.
Dream on, dimwits.
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
Some are questioning whether a top city leader showed favoritism when he ordered crews to help a “single woman” cope during the storm. That single woman was U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, Dhimmwitocrat- Jacksonville.
During the height of Tropical Storm Fay, when many Jacksonville residents were trying to keep rising water out of their homes or dealing with fallen trees and power lines, the city sent a public works crew to put sandbags around the Brown’s home along the Trout River.
By Macon Countyline
August 25, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
John Oxendine says the same remedies being discussed today are the ones being discussed 20 years ago. The reason those remedies were never implemented. “It rained,” he said. I’m not endorsing him, but it is true.
By GodHatesTrash
August 25, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
You know, Mr. Bookman might be on to something - The 50 square miles of the Copper Basin in Northeast Georgia could be the recipe for Georgia’s water future -
Strip mine North Georgia down to the gnat line, the storm runoff would keep the rivers overflowing, and the exposed red clay would provide plenty of trailer habitat for the native yokels… they could put cisterns in their yards - (Hint: first start with an old washing machine with the lid off to catch the rain water - if you are too lazy to remove it, just prop it open) amidst the old appliances. There would be plenty of filthy mudpuddles for their little scabrous children to play half-naked in all day. Lots of jeepin’ terrain for their SUVs and pick-em-up trucks, lots of mud for their women and pigs (you’ll need a scorecard to keep the contestants straight) to wrassle in…
And no grass, no yards to mow.
Brilliant, Mr. Bookman, brilliant!
Anyhow, my friends, I’m busy busy today, we’ll have to postpone group to later in the week - I know I’ve stirred up a lot of feelings and emotions from our group Saturday morning, but stay in touch with them, and we’ll get together later in the week… contact Mr. Bookman with your suicidal and homicidal thoughts if you feel you can’t control them. And definitely feel free to avail yourself of your local emergency mental health services - many of you are more than qualified for long term treatment/isolation/incarceration…..
Good luck and good day my friends. Remember I am on your side in your quest for sanity.
By ByteMe
August 25, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
@Macon: same thing I wrote earlier. We don’t have any kind of long-term memory. The ripples just smooth out and we forget that a giant rock dropped out of the sky.
Same thing will happen with oil once it gets back down below $90 in the next 6 months. People will just climb right back in their SUVs and keep going like nothing happened. And GM/Ford/Chrysler will have re-jiggered their production lines for gas miser cars that no one will want.
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
You wanna see the funniest thing I’ve ever read in my entire life?:
“Liberals believe that they can’t get a fair shake from the media anymore,” said Eric Alterman, media critic and author of the 2003 book “What Liberal Media?”
I got to give these libs credit, when you got all of the uneducated and the dim voting for you, take advantage of their ignorance.
And they sure enough are.
By JR
August 25, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Trash, Good luck in your quest for sanity. You surely have an uphill battle!
By @@
August 25, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
I got to give these libs credit, when you got all of the uneducated and the dim voting for you, take advantage of their ignorance.
Or just tell ‘em straight up. They won’t mind…..they’re open to suggestion.
“Anyone saying anything else doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Period.”
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
You know, the way the libs talk during off election years, I always thought they didn’t believe in God:
Democrats open faith-filled convention with prayer
I guess they will do anything for a vote, even sell their souls.
Sick.
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Anything the environmental terrorists do turns into a disaster:
The Democrats have embarked on a highly visible effort to make their convention the “greenest” ever, focusing on everything from expanded recycling to more creative programs like encouraging Denver restaurants to offer “lean ‘n’ green” meals made with healthful, organic, and locally sourced ingredients. But not all of their environmentally friendly initiatives have gone as planned. Take the hotel card keys, for example. Instead of the traditional plastic cards, the Sheraton in downtown handed guests Visa-sponsored swipe cards “made from sustainably-harvested wood.” The plan lasted all of a few hours. By Saturday night, enough guests had reported problems getting into their rooms with the wooden cards that the front desk clerks had abandoned them and switched back to the plastic cards. A clerk said they were now handing out one of each and suggested that the wooden one could kept as a souvenir.
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
What if Atlanta disappeared? That’s a rather morbid question. But then again I watched a two hour episode on the National Geographic Channel on what the earth would be like after man - in other words, if humans disappeared. It was kinda cool and was based partially on the deterioration of the surrounding area of Chernobyl. That said, it’s usually the self-loathing apologist and guilt-ridden liberal left that ponders these kinds of morbid thoughts.
Only at a convention of Dimwits, by Dimwits, and for Dimwits does this happen:
The Democrats have embarked on a highly visible effort to make their convention the “greenest” ever, focusing on everything from expanded recycling to more creative programs like encouraging Denver restaurants to offer “lean ‘n’ green” meals made with healthful, organic, and locally sourced ingredients. But not all of their environmentally friendly initiatives have gone as planned.
Take the hotel card keys, for example. Instead of the traditional plastic cards, the Sheraton in downtown handed guests Visa-sponsored swipe cards “made from sustainably-harvested wood.” The plan lasted all of a few hours. By Saturday night, enough guests had reported problems getting into their rooms with the wooden cards that the front desk clerks had abandoned them and switched back to the plastic cards. A clerk said they were now handing out one of each and suggested that the wooden one could kept as a souvenir.
But the zoo of the governmentally caged is just getting warmed up. Don’t tell me this extremist liberal nutbag is still around…
STATE CAPITOL - Security at an anti-war rally outside the state Capitol this morning allegedly had to break up a confrontation between a Fox News reporter and Ward Churchill, a former University of Colorado professor who caused an uproar when he called victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks “little Eichmanns.”
What a worthless pathetic liberal pos.
By goober
August 25, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
This I learned in 5th grade math: Matter can be neither created nor destroyed. All the water that was ever created on Earth is still here. It might get shifted around a bit, but it’s all still here, with 99% of it in the oceans. It’s silly to even talk about how much Atlanta uses, consumes, holds, etc.
A more intelluctual discussion would focus on why the rest of Georgia should vote to secede Atlanta from the state.
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Oops I see AJCM beat me to the punch on those moonbat greeniacs using wooden credit cards. Oh well. At least now they’ve got wood in their pockets to match what’s in their head. (Somewhere between those lines is a real dirty joke I’m sure - but I’m not going there).
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
WASHINGTON - Sales of existing homes rose 3.1 percent in July, easily beating Wall Street’s expectations, as buyers snapped up deeply discounted properties in parts of the country hit hardest by the housing bust.
The housing market was long overdue for a correction. Homes are finally selling for what they are truly worth. In Orlando a run-of-the-mill four bedroom two and a half bath house goes for $400,000+ on a postage stamp lot. Insanity.
And in other good news, losers and liars with bad credit will not be getting a new home loan any time soon - many of whom are well represented in Denver right now.
I still can’t get over Biden’s net worth. That’s just sad. Really sad. And to think the liberal skirt wearing moonbats have the ovaries to make fun of McCain not knowing how many homes he has…
By FrankLeeDarling
August 25, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
hey goober did you get a science degree from bobby jones or something god, you are stupid.
wish Atlanta could leave you hillbillys out of the picture but someone has to pay your taxes and build you roads.
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
wish Atlanta could leave you hillbillys out of the picture but someone has to pay your taxes and build you roads.
You know little toad, I’ll bet there are a lot of people who live in north unincorporated Fulton County and elsewhere who aren’t seen one thin dime of their tax dollars going back to them. Oh wait, methinks some of those people did something about it: Sandy Springs, Johns Creek, Milton, etc. etc. When taxes aren’t represented, the people give you mindless liberal government toadies the middle finger and do their own damned thing.
Ain’t freedom grand?
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
Durn I need to proof read my posts before firing off..
I meant to say who haven’t seen…
By FrankLeeDarling
August 25, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
Glad to see all of them go Rufus . but the city of Atlanta still generates most of the Taxes in this state and we still have to share them with the resentful hillbillys who do not think they should have to pay their fair share
By RW-(the original)
August 25, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
Jay B,
If you want to get rid of that hook just weaken your dominant hand. If you’re right handed rotate your right hand a quarter to a half inch counter clockwise on your grip. If you’re left handed do the same with your left hand.
There’s an old joke among golf pros when they see a possible lady of the evening hanging around. They’ll ask each other if that girl has a strong right hand.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barack Obama sang the praises of China’s infrastructure last week on the campaign trail, and while he may be all wet, thousands of Chinese farmers wish they were even slightly damp. While Obama hailed the Beijing Olympics as a model for national investment, the Times of London did some actual research on how China actually managed to improve its infrastructure. As anyone familiar with totalitarian systems could have guessed, they stole it
THOUSANDS of Chinese farmers face ruin because their water has been cut off to guarantee supplies to the Olympics in Beijing, and officials are now trying to cover up a grotesque scandal of blunders, lies and repression.
In the capital, foreign dignitaries have admired millions of flowers in bloom and lush, well-watered greens around its famous sights. But just 90 minutes south by train, peasants are hacking at the dry earth as their crops wilt, their money runs out and the work of generations gives way to despair, debt and, in a few cases, suicide.
Maybe they think we’re Beijing.
By Joe
August 25, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Somehow water draining off 285 and all the wall mart parking lots back into the chattahoochee doesn’t seem like water I want.
I thought it was good to have water percolate into the ground, that’s what supplies springs that run continuously.
I’m not following totally what this means though. Florida and Alabama want a guaranteed rate of water release is what I thought the fight was about. And growth is a problem because we need more storage but Perdue’s budget mess isn’t allowing the building of more resevoirs. Therefore we are trying to use Lake Lanier beyong its capacity to serve its dual purpose as a consistent supplier of water to Alabama and Florida AND as our resevoir.
Hopefully the weather men are Finally right and this Fay dumps a lot of water into Lake Lanier.
Though what I do take away from all this is why do low flo toliets? Well its because of growth and the fact we don’t have enough storage, not because it shorts alabama and Florida.
By Observer
August 25, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
I’m curious - does AJC/DNC ever post on the topic of the day?
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Whin-E: Yes he does:
By AJC/DNC Management August 25, 2008 6:40 AM You might want to check with Florida and Alabama about whether they want more water right now.
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
but the city of Atlanta still generates most of the Taxes in this state and we still have to share them with the resentful hillbillys who do not think they should have to pay their fair share
FLD, you liberals are always contradicting yourselves. I guess that’s what happens when your ideology is run on emotions and not clear and logical thinking. Didn’t you hint earlier that the rednecks/hillybillies were essentially too poor to be a part of Georgia and Atlanta is carrying their water, so to speak? Then here you are saying they aren’t paying their fare share of taxes (I hate that mindless hysterical liberal socialist bedwetting phrase). Make up your freaking mind already idiot.
By way, take a drive in Buckhead around West Paces Ferry and Nancy Creek where all the millionaires live and see how fine and dandy those roads are kept up.
Oh, and nobody in Sandy Springs, Johns Creek, or Milton has a thing to do with you Atlanta hacks other than use the airport. You aren’t missed either.
By FrankLeeDarling
August 25, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
never said you hillbillys were poor just republicans who dont think you should pay taxes but still want to use tax dollars generated by Atlanta .If only it were true that you folk would stay out of the city that would be great
we have our own millionaries we dont need yours
By RW-(the original)
August 25, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Observer,
Check out the very first comment on the board from AJC/DNC-M. You might want a new name.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ah yes, the post-racial campaign.
DENVER — A black Hillary Clinton delegate on Sunday accused state Senate President Emil Jones of calling her an “Uncle Tom.”
Jones — Barack Obama’s political mentor — denied using the racially loaded slur against Chicago political consultant Delmarie Cobb, but two aldermen who said they witnessed the Saturday night exchange back up Cobb’s account.
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Somehow water draining off 285 and all the wall mart parking lots back into the chattahoochee doesn’t seem like water I want.
Yeah I hear ya Joe. I say the same thing about Atlanta’s 110 year old sewer system when I drive on the west side of I-285 where the Hooch runs.
You can say I’m not real fond of the city of Atlanta and the way it’s managed (by Dimocrats of course). They blew the Olympics bigtime and at least one of their last three mayors had some corruption issues, if not another mayor who liked to questionably steer certain businesses to Hartsfield (Jackson).
By ByteMe
August 25, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Rufus said:
WASHINGTON - Sales of existing homes rose 3.1 percent in July, easily beating Wall Street’s expectations, as buyers snapped up deeply discounted properties in parts of the country hit hardest by the housing bust.
The housing market was long overdue for a correction. Homes are finally selling for what they are truly worth. In Orlando a run-of-the-mill four bedroom two and a half bath house goes for $400,000+ on a postage stamp lot. Insanity.
And this is what happens when fools and conservatives try to understand economics. It’s not the monthly increase or decrease that matters. It’s the year-over-year rate of change. And that’s still waaaaay down. No bounce or even a correction yet. We’re still way overbuilt and will be for at least another year. Current housing supply is at 17 months, including foreclosures. Normal is about 8 months supply.
Even the NAR (the realtors’ cheerleading organization) says:
*Existing-home sales – including single-family, townhomes, condominiums and co-ops – increased 3.1 percent to a seasonally adjusted annual rate¹ of 5.00 million units in July from a downwardly revised level of 4.85 million in June, but are 13.2 percent lower than the 5.76 million-unit pace in July 2007. *
In other words, the correction you thought you saw is just the same cliff housing fell off of last year.
By elfy
August 25, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Daedalus, Can I have a hit of what you’re smoking, please?
By Hillbilly Deluxe
August 25, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
To ByteMe @10:53AM There’s a lot of truth in what you say.
To Zeke @8:48AM Good point about vegetation releasing water back into the atmosphere. An acre of asphalt and concrete doesn’t do that. An acre of asphalt and concrete also raises the temperature. The moisture that a tree releases into the atmosphere will come back down as rain.
As to an acre of kudzu, we wouldn’t have kudzu if it wasn’t for the geniuses at the County Extension Offices who pushed it off on people back in the day. Talk about your law of unintended consequences. And kudzu isn’t even good for erosion control which was it’s intended purpose.
What GA, AL, and FL should just admit is that this whole thing is about money and each wanting to protect its slice of the pie or hopefully increase it. It’s all about selfishness.
And if the Gold Dome went away and took the legislature with it, would it be such a bad thing?
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
never said you hillbillys were poor just republicans who dont think you should pay taxes
FLD, now your liberal hysterical stupidity is showing. Nobody gets away with not paying taxes, be it local, state, or federal. And by the way, since you are such a big fan of saying their fair share of taxes why don’t you give us all a ball park figure of what a fair share of taxes is. 10%? 25%? 50% I’m all ears. Break down the economic demographics home boy.
but still want to use tax dollars generated by Atlanta .If only it were true that you folk would stay out of the city that would be great
Like I said moonbat, we all have to fly from time to time. Other than that there is the sporting events going on.
we have our own millionaries we dont need yours
Since you obviously aren’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, I’ll help you out a little: those areas I mentioned are in the city limits of Atlanta. They are some of the WORST roads I have ever been on, and that includes way up in Bahston Taxachussetts. And they surround and support some of the southeast’s most wealthy. Go figure. Typical liberal Democrat politics and city running.
By @@
August 25, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
So that’s where OBlahMa learned it!!!
Told that Lyle heard him call Cobb the name, Jones said, “That was not. That was not.
The Uncle Toms (Mayor Daley and Gov. Blagojevich) I knew.
That’s all I have to say.
(Snortle snort snort)
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
In other words, the correction you thought you saw is just the same cliff housing fell off of last year.
Byte. I know how the real estate market works, thank you. Any time prices get lowered, that’s a correction, no matter what the root cause. Did I ever say or even hint that the overall existing housing market is up or something? You mindless liberal hysterics read things that aren’t there.
Second, calling us idiots on the economy from socialist liberal moonbats like you is pretty ironic considering some portion of the housing collapse was caused by you liberal Dimocrats screaming about the economically challenged not being able to buy a home and pushing loan institutions to loan out to losers and application liars (perfect Dimocrats).
Chickens have come home to roost, bro.
By Bud Wiser
August 25, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
So let me see if I have things in the proper order:
(1) We all need to go green
(2) With everything going green, and an acre of land uses more water than a developed acre
(3) Since we now use more water being green, Alabama and Florida successfully sue the state of Georgia
(4) We lose the suit
(5) But, we’re green
(6) But we have less water, because we have to give more to Alabama and Florida, because we are green
(7) So we need to water less, so we’ll have more water, then we’ll have less water, then we won’t be green, which will give us more water, which we’ll have to give up because we are green, but we won’t stay green, so we’ll use less water
There, I think I have it.
Thank you.
By ByteMe
August 25, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Rufus says: “Oooo it’s all the socialist liberal communist pantywaster’s fault!! Ooooo.. I’m going going to wet myself about how the democrats screw everything up!”
Do try to think harder next time. It’s boring the drivel you keep spouting. Saying it often doesn’t make it true.
By the way: you also said “Homes are finally selling for what they are truly worth.” And they’re not. They still have a ways to fall in most markets. Until you see a 30-50% correction in some markets as well as a new market for those mortgages, we just get to suffer.
BTW, ain’t the democrats who let the investment bankers leverage their debt up to 30-1 or more. Ain’t the democrats who were asleep at the wheel when mortgage companies were allowing no-doc loans out the wazzoo (that’s an executive branch function). Get your blame straight.
By RW-(the original)
August 25, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Some senior Obama supporters are irritated at how they perceive the Clintons fanned — or at a minimum failed to douse — stories that she was not even vetted as a possible vice presidential nominee. This is because she told Obama she preferred not to go through the rigorous process of document production unless she was really a serious contender, an Obama associate noted.
One senior Obama supporter said the Clinton associates negotiating on her behalf act like “Japanese soldiers in the South Pacific still fighting after the war is over.”
And this guy claims to be The One that can bring together Democrats, Republicans, Independents, and Paulnuts to do one big Snoopy dance.
What a dunce……
By elfy
August 25, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
*But back on subject - this past November when the local yahoos were running for election on the city/county boards, the ones I met, the only question I asked was their position on developing and water use.
If you don’t have the water to support the community, it’s time to stop building.*
Exactly. And if you don’t have the money to support another government entitlement program, it’s time to stop legislating.
By RW-(the original)
August 25, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
For all the hoopla over falling markets, corrections etc. the real market price of anything is the point where what a seller is willing to take matches what a buyer is willing to pay.
And spare me the pain of the consumer that bought more than they could afford with no money down and then not making the payments. They aren’t out anything.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Debra has a plan for uniting the Hillarycrats
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Rufus says: “Oooo it’s all the socialist liberal communist pantywaster’s fault!! Ooooo.. I’m going going to wet myself about how the democrats screw everything up!”
Moonbat, please re-read what I posted and stop lying like a typical liberal and misrepresenting facts:
considering some portion of the housing collapse was caused by you liberal Dimocrats Do I need to ‘splain to you the difference between the meaning of “some” and “all” there, hysteric?
By the way: you also said “Homes are finally selling for what they are truly worth.” And they’re not. They still have a ways to fall in most markets.
Yes, it depends on the market. In my region, they are selling for what they are worth - and they are being snapped up.
BTW, ain’t the democrats who let the investment bankers leverage their debt up to 30-1 or more.
Never said that either, did I? What did I say? I said that a lot of Democrats pushed for financial institutions to cater to the poor and others with sub-standard credit and means (again, your class A Democrat voter constituent). That’s old news, but you liberals don’t want to admit when one of your brilliant ideas fails. From Texas Democrats alone:
Encouraging federal, state and local agencies to work together to broaden the reach and increase access to housing opportunities,
Eliminating all discrimination in the financing and insuring of homes
By ByteMe
August 25, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
RW: you are correct on both points concerning housing. I definitely have no tears for people who over-extended themselves — and don’t believe that we should bail them out any more than we should bail out the banks that were stupid enough to make the mortgage in the first place — and absolutely believe that the buyers will show up when the price is right… and when mortgages are available to them. Sit back, it’s gonna be a while.
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
From RETRENDS dot com:
But maybe it’s not all that bad as the doomsayers say it is. According to the Mortgage Bankers Association, overall, 4.41 percent of mortgages are delinquent, up from 4.34 percent a year ago, but lower than they were three years ago. So, that means 96 percent of mortgages are being paid on time. That’s not too bad – we are still far from a real “Meltdown” as the media painted our industry this past week.
Good it’s not -but a meltdown it isn’t. Let’s just say we are in a much needed correction for a real estate and mortgage market. Markets that have been too strong for too long. At the same time, however, the market creates numerous opportunities to grow a business and gain market share. As with any trend or change, knowledge is the key and being pre-warned is also strategically smart.
Thank you, sir. I knew I didn’t just make that up after that hyserical liberal jumped all over me.
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Put on your rubbers and batten down the hatches kids, we are getting nailed.
I guess this year the moonbats didn’t have a whole lot of global warming and drought doom and gloom to write about, huh? Who wants to bet that next up on their plates will be something like global warming causes too much rain - or have they already done that? Who knows. Who cares.
By JFW
August 25, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
JBoook,
A man your age shouldn’t be pulling it!
By ByteMe
August 25, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Rufus believes: According to the Mortgage Bankers Association, overall, 4.41 percent of mortgages are delinquent, up from 4.34 percent a year ago, but lower than they were three years ago.
I’d like to know where on that site he gets those numbers. Last numbers I saw was that over 20% of mortgages written in ‘06 and ‘07 are either delinquent or foreclosed (and the numbers are going up for all class of loans written during that time, but highest, of course, for subprime). Maybe the numbers only include those that are delinquent, but not foreclosed already (in GA, foreclosure is so quick, you can’t blink during the process or you’ll miss it) and banks aren’t letting you stay delinquent long.
By Rufus
August 25, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Hmmm. Maybe I spoke too soon. TS Gustav is not looking well as it heads towards the DR and Haiti. Already 60mph winds. This will be one to watch.
Sidenote: what’s a moonbat Dimwitocrat convention without a waterboarding protest demonstration. There should be some counter protesters there demonstrating a head being sawed off.
By Willie
August 25, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Close ATLANTA down!! Its a RACIST TOWN anyway….who needs that along with all the other problems it has….
By Blog Police
August 25, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
The problem is not that Atlanta consumes too much water, and the downriver communities know that. What concerns Fla/Ala is what would happen if all the millions of metro Atlantans flush their commodes at the exact same second, timed to within a milisecond. It only happened twice before, once in 1889 when they first invented the turbo-outhouse, and then again about four weeks ago. The only reason there were no fatalities in either case was because of an ongoing drought. The 1889 incident was caused by an incident of dysentery after the town picnic when Sally Butterbutt�s potatoe salad was left out in the sun too long. The recent episode was a thought to be a fraternity prank.
I live on a quarter acre that�s so heavily wooded it looks like the Amazon Rain Forest. The moisture is sucked out of the ground with such force that my dog doesn�t have to lift his leg to pee. (or squat).
Now we know how Timmy always ends up in the well�.
By AJC/DNC Management
August 25, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
The Dimwit�s supporters, of course, argue that events have proved the soundness of his judgment, and he�ll have plenty of opportunities during the next two and a half months to do what Ronald Reagan did in 1980 � convince undecided voters that he has the toughness, astuteness and levelheadedness to protect U.S. interests abroad and deal with tough, even ruthless, adversaries.
Yeah, good luck with that.
By thogwummpy
August 25, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
Wow…actually LUCID for Bookman! Now Jay, try this: A rich person makes a lot of money. Neo-lib THEOLOGY assumes it is gone—-snatched from the economy forever. However, it isn’t. Even if it is not immediately spent; it’s either invested OR put in a financial institution that likewise invests it back into the economy (unless—-frightened by excessive tax rates—-which would drive the rich to do the logical wise thing and get the money out of the country—-imagine the $TRILLIONS that will flow offshore between November and an Obama inauguration!). In other words, wealth “redistribution” occurs in a capitalist system, cascading downstream to all who WORK for it. And at the end of the day THAT’s the gripe the Left has: they don’t want to earn the money they desire—-they want it given to them after it’s stolen from someone who DID work for it. Absorb the accurate analogy, Jay!
By CW
August 25, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
I was intrigued by the headline and disappointed by the content. What a letdown to find the article to be about water!
By jon
August 25, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
Jay,
Good column. Supports the old adage about that which is commonly believed is usually not the truth.
One point you failed to make is that rivers and streams don’t get all their flow from surface run-off. They are also fed through the discharge of groundwater. You will note this effect when after these rains cease, how quickly the rivers and streams will be back at low flow conditions. It takes a while for the groundwater to be recharged after the drought.
Good day.
By BT fan
August 25, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
Disappear,?? hopefully Cynthia and all her co-hart liberals side kicks would follow.
By Freddy K.
August 25, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Q: What would GA be without Atlanta?
A: Better off……………..
By Alex
August 25, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this
Wouldn’t bother me if Atlanta disappeared…