Jay Bookman

By norman ravitch

August 19, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

The funny thing about McCain’s extremist answers to the questions posed by Rick Warren is that he probably doesn’t really believe them. He has become a total demagogue, willing to do or say anything to win. And it will probably work for him. Pity, though. He could have won by being himself.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

Science tells us that life truly does begin at conception, but I guess this is the one area where conservatives are supposed to lay science aside.

By Mrs. Godzilla

August 19, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

RW

“Science tells us that life truly does begin at conception”

Where?

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Good morning Jay and others -

Abortion is one of those topics I really hate to argue, but Jay brings up a good angle to the debate.

When does life begin?

To my knowledge, that has yet to be determined - presently, like God itself, it is based on beliefs.

I think that is for “God” to work out, not us.

And even if you believe that life begins at conception, that doesn’t mean that you have the right to speak for all who are faced with the tough decision of whether or not to have an abortion. That is up to the those involved in the decision and God. No one else.

Even though I disagree with the Pope and Catholicism’s stance on birth control, or rather, lack there of, at least they are consistent in their belief and see the issue of life, as it should be, on a very consistent and grand scale.

They are not hypocritical in their pursuits at convenience for their beliefs to fit like a puzzle into a very fragmented belief system - and certainly one void of basic logic.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 19, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

And?

Was this column a question or an answer?

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

Some people make claims that conservatives might lay science aside with regards to defining the beginning of conception when in fact conservatives prefer to lay science aside in all cases except this one. It’s called pandering to a bloc of voters by taking advantage of their religious beliefs. Further, it’s just one more in a long line of examples of disgusting behavior on the parts of Republicans in their ritualistic quest for votes. Drill, Drill, Drill, Kill, Kill, Kill, Guns, Guns, Guns, Wars, Wars, Wars. Republicans are certainly predictable — anything for a vote. Anything at all.

By Eli

August 19, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

John McCain is right, Life begins on this earth at the moment of conception. God said, “Before you were in your mother’s womb,I knew you” so life is a circle in the universal reality. Abortion is murder and totally against the will of God, no matter how you spin it. I noticed that Barack Obama danced around this heavy abortion issue at the Saddleback debate. Obama is not a Christian, he is a hypocrite as well as being a true Marxist.

By Midori

August 19, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Every time I read something like the 9:59 above, I honestly question myself as to why I moved to this backwards state.

Religion works when you want to attack abortion, but it is irrelevant when it comes to murdering scores of innocent people. Innocent men, women and children. We’re not talking fetuses here.

And you call Obama a hypocrite?

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Mrs. G.,

Look up human fertilization and you’ll find that it’s the beginning of life. It’s just a scientific fact and this one really isn’t disputed unlike your beloved global warming “science.”

Perhaps you’d like to follow The Dunce and say it’s above your pay grade to say when along the process someone gains human rights, but then you lose the right to ever say someone’s human rights have been violated.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 19, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer: Science says that CO2 cannot possibly have the effect on atmospheric heat trapping that you alGorebots claim it does, has that stopped you from proclaiming an end to human civilization?

By Politics Aside

August 19, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Why does Bookman take the spectral opposite of McCain’s position? His logic is as obnoxious as McCain’s. The televangelical right will never be mollified about abortion.

Bookman could have used the McCain-taser of Viagra vs Birth Control, which reflects McCain’s total inability to deal with human reproduction. But Bookman cant write about reality, he has to monkey-see monkey-do like some assinine sprite of I know UR but what MI, or, you forgot to say “mother may I”.

SO what we get treated to is the worst of both worlds: the Pope and the pop-up retort. So it’s murder. It’s mass murder like der heetler.

Oh Yeah? Then Human beings are created on toilet seats, (like journalism is).

I talked to god about abortion, Bookman, and god sez he wants you to stfu, and go sell earth shoes. U2 McFeign.

McShame 08: Oh, the humanity.

Bookman 08: Oh, the shamanity

Me 08: stfu Bookman

By norman ravitch

August 19, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

For decades only Catholics were pro-life. The evangelicals never gave a damn until it seemed to them politically useful to become pro-life. I am pro-life but anti-evangelical. Evangelicals are by and large ignoramuses and rednecks.

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

RW,

In my opinion, attempting to define “life” is like trying to catch air in your hands.

Of course you can look up the word “life” in a dictionary, but that definition is there because that word is part of the English language.

There are some concepts that can not be defined in simple and neat terms.

By Copyleft

August 19, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Logical contradictions mean nothing to religious nuts. Neither does science, as we’ve seen from their willingness to distort it to suit their needs, and deny it when it doesn’t fit their agenda.

McCain is pandering, of course. There’s no doubt about that, because evangelicals are remarkably uninterested in any issue EXCEPT abortion.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Some of the “volunteers” that were forced to work for their tickets to hear The Dunce read from his teleprompter got their tickets finally. Nice touch wrapping Obumbler in an upside down American flag, morons

By Copyleft

August 19, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Actually, “when life begins” is a smokescreen, an attempt to distract from the more troubling question of when the rights of personhood begin.

We destroy life all the time, including human life. Miscarriages, executions, traffic accidents, euthanasia… all these things end a human life. But where are the RIGHTS involved? That’s the question we need to answer.

And science can’t answer that one for us.

By @@

August 19, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

And I respect your respect for John McCain’s opinion Jay. His causes one to ponder the question while the liberals’ makes it so much easier to adopt a zygote.

McCain is a strong advocate for life. Not perfect by any means — his support of McCain/Feingold severely restricted the pro-life movement’s right to promote the pondering. If I’m not mistaken, he now sees McCain/Feingold for what it was and is — a restriction on free speech.

Twice he overturned President Bush’s embryonic stem-cell funding policy which would allow my tax dollars to go towards the destruction of human embryos for research. Something with which I do not agree. New science has come forth which offers alternatives. McCain sees promise in the new science and appears to be ready to change his mind on that critical question as well.

McCain also supports a woman’s right to an abortion in the event of rape, incest, or threat to the mother’s life.

His opinion lies in his principles. If the question comes before SCOTUS, it is his hope that it will be answered by justices who faithfully interpret it within the struct guidelines set forth in the constitution.

My personal opinion is if a woman so chooses to end life’s potential, she should be free to do so with the help of a trained physician but without my financial assistance. If she doesn’t want my approval then don’t seek it.

I would add though, that the message is being heard loud and clear by our children who have been spared.

Life is not worth living, but is free for the taking. It’s a societal/cultural thingy.

Now that’s just sad Jay.

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Andy,

Science says that methane gas is much more effective at causing global warming so keep on spewing it. Further, I don’t know anything about this alGorebot you seem to have taken an affinity to. Finally, with regards to the beginning of the end for humanity, I believe that history will show that it most likely began with the birth of thoughts such as yours. Human civilization on the other hand may or may not continue. Calling that one is beyond my pay grade but you can feel free to boast your all-seeing abilities if it makes you feel more omniscient.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Bosch,

Believe me I’m not surprised that life is a concept you can’t grasp, but the process is pretty basic.

By TPox

August 19, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Bookman thought he was being clever by taking a fringe position as a parody of McCain’s.

McCain 08: Wet-starting human life……ew.

Obama 08: The Right to Healthcare starts at the moment of conception.

By hillbilly ragger

August 19, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

This is the Mother of All Loser Issues for McCain and the GOP, and McCain has staked out an incredibly extreme position.

BTW, the public does not want Roe v. Wade overturned. Just thought I’d mention that to the wingers; when they prattle on and on about the desirability of packing the Supreme Court with pro-criminalization ideologues, they’re turning off around 60-65% of the voting public.

By Midori

August 19, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

And it would not be salient if McCain hadn’t deployed the anecdote in his own words - with a misleading image - in a campaign ad, and used it again in front of an evangelical audience Saturday night. And it would not be salient if religious fanatics had not a strangle-hold on the Republican party, seeking doctrinal assurances and echoes of their own type of faith in political candidates.

Here are the perfectly legitimate questions reporters should now, in my opinion, ask McCain:

why did you not mention this transcendent story in 1973? Why, in discussing three Christmases in captivity in Vietnam, was this story - far more powerful than any of the other anecdotes - omitted? How was it possible for the gun guard of May 1969 to be present at Christmas that year when McCain had been transferred to another camp? Is it possible that McCain’s memory has faded with time and that he has simply fused his own memories with other stories - as Clinton did with Bosnia sniper fire and as Kerry did in remembering another Christmas he could not have actually witnessed where he said he did?

And why are we not allowed to ask these questions, when they relate to one of the most important questions anyone can ask about a president: the question of integrity? If McCain has fabricated a religious epiphany for political purposes, it is about as deep a betrayal of core integrity as one can imagine, and the latest example of how pernicious the religious domination of political life in America has become.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 19, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer: It was a yes or no question that I asked.

By norman ravitch

August 19, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

Example of evangelical wisdom: here in Savannah there is a Christian School which tells kids there were no dinosaurs.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Actually, “when life begins” is a smokescreen, an attempt to distract from the more troubling question of when the rights of personhood begin.

That’s a much better question and it’s also the question that was asked of The Dunce when he said it was above his pay grade to answer. We know he’s against giving any medical assistance to a baby that survives an abortion so we know that a baby breathing outside the womb still isn’t enough for him to confer human rights. Frankly the thought of this guy becoming the President of this great country is repulsive.

By GOPs got to go

August 19, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

The Bush administration years of been a complete attack on real science. Stem Cell research and Global Warming are but two issues. For years the Bush administration’s political appointees have sought to control the messages communicated by scientists to the public. NASA’s James Hansen is a good example.

I am sure this will illicit a maniacal response from Management but really dude, stick to the subjects you know, like urinals. Unless you can copy and paste your Environmental Science degree on this blog then give it a rest.

Roe vs Wade was a landmark decision and remains so. How can the self proclaimed, most can advanced country in the world step back in time 35 years? Get over it Evangelicals, it will never happen. McCain is selling an agenda and all you Right Wingers are buying it. Cross in the sand my a*. Before this campaign I respected McCain. What happened to him?

Of course Stem Cell research should be funded. Thankfully the rest of the world recognizes the importance of this new Science. The research will go on, just not here. Chalk up another way for Americans to lag behind the rest of the world, thanks to Bushie.

Soon the global embarrassment that is Bush will be gone. Good riddance!

Funny how England’s decision to send the prisoners to Australia and the Religious Nuts to America is still being felt 400 years later. Wish we had gotten the prisoners.

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Andy at 10:53,

Surely you jest. Here is your post with your referenced question:

“August 19, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer: Science says that CO2 cannot possibly have the effect on atmospheric heat trapping that you alGorebots claim it does, has that stopped you from proclaiming an end to human civilization?”

Clearly, only one that fits within the confines of that finite space-time continuum that you have created for yourself could possibly view your question as “yes/no”. I had moved beyond that “world view” upon conception. Perhaps RW can be of service.

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

RW,

The process is pretty basic, that’s true, you’re conceived, you’re born, you die. It’s all the stuff in between that is complicated - that’s just as much part of the definition of “life” as the basic steps of the process.

Do you really want to break down the definition of “life” into the basics steps?

norman,

My old Sunday School teacher must work there - she used to tell us the same thing.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

ragger,

Oh poll obsessed one, there’s a reason they word the questions the way they do in your link. Not to mention that you don’t supply any polling internals for us to look over, although I guess I did just mention it.

Had they asked it like the following you would likely see a very different result.

In 1973 the Supreme Court decided to make it’s own law concerning abortion. Would you prefer that the law be made in your state legislature?

By RalityKing

August 19, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Thanks for re-defining McCain’s very clear view on abortion Jay.

Now.., would you mind giving Obama’s definition a go too? That lawyer talk of his is about as clear as mud!

By hillbilly ragger

August 19, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Copyleft @ 10.36, I disagree with the notion that “evangelicals are remarkably uninterested in any issue EXCEPT abortion.”

In my experience, at least, those who consider themselves to be evangelical Christians comprise a far broader spectrum of Americans, and include everything from the biggest Proddy denomination (the SBC) to pacifist, devoutly non-violent folks like the Amish. All have veered Republican of late but aren’t as monolithic about this stuff; I know from conversations and numerous articles on the subject that many are, in fact, deeply concerned with what mankind is doing to the planet, and how that will adversely affect life for the generations of God’s creatures ahead.

Yes, there are the End Times nutters who would be happy to see the world end and the Rapture, presumably, begin. But there are plenty who tuned in to the Saturday night festivities hoping that global warming would be discussed (it wasn’t) and that gay marriage and abortion would, for once, not be among the first issues aired (they were, of course).

This was a two way street. I think a lot of Americans find evangelical christians — or at least their sterotypical vision of a “fundie” like James Dobson or Pat Robertson — to be kind of creepy, and Warren had an opportunity to round out that image, just as Obama had an opportunity to present himself as a man of religious faith to those who hold their religious faith to be paramount. One could argue both had only limited success in their respective missions.

McCain threw a lot of raw meat out there to the faithful. Of course he drew the most enthusiastic applause. He has to; he can’t possibly win if the evangelicals stay home or, heaven forbid, start to peel away in significant numbers for Obama.

By Mrs. Godzilla

August 19, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

The debate as to when life begins and how to define it has been raging for centuries…

“The Council of Vienne, still very influential in Catholic hierarchical teaching, confirmed the conception of man put forth by St. Thomas Aquinas. While Aquinas had opposed abortion — as a form of contraception and a sin against marriage — he had maintained that the sin in abortion was not homicide unless the fetus was ensouled, and thus, a human being. Aquinas had said the fetus is first endowed with a vegetative soul, then an animal soul, and then — when its body is developed — a rational soul. This theory of “delayed hominization” is the most consistent thread throughout church history on abortion.”

I like that term “ensouled”.

I hate abortion. I couldn’t do it.

26 six years ago this summer…..my “ex” unhappy at a 2nd pregnancy only 7 months after our first child told me terminate the pregnancy or terminate the marriage.

He ended up paying child support for a verrrry long time.

It was a horrible choice to have to make. But it was mine.

I support certain limits on abortion, always accepted for the life of the mother.

I believe a woman should have sole dominion over her own body.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Do you really want to break down the definition of “life” into the basics steps?

That’s a pretty dumb question, Bosch. The point of discussion that brought about Jay’s column today was at what point in the process one gains human rights and The Dunce said it’s above his pay grade to answer that which basically means he doesn’t know all the way to the end point or death, unless of course you believe in eternal life which opens up a whole new can of worms. Do they have worm sushi over at Floyd’s place?

By hillbilly ragger

August 19, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Please, RW. I can answer your scary, loaded question with a far scarier one: In 1973, the Supreme Court ruled that the state had no right to regulate your uterus. Some people want to change that, and make your uterus a ward of the state. You think that’s a) a good idea or b) nucking futs?

The question in question, actually, is pretty neutral: “In general, do you agree or disagree with the 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision that established a woman’s right to an abortion?”

And if you like, you can always slice up those who’ll want some restrictions and try to cobble together something resembling a winning coalition to limp to yet another victory, I suppose. That is, unless folks like Jay and myself aren’t around to remind others just how extreme this “human rights begin at conception” position really is.

Anyway, you can accurately describe me as “poll obsessed” but then that more or less describes anyone who follows politics, doesn’t it? The two words do have that pesky common root, after all.

By TPox

August 19, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

RW, if you find Osama’s candidacy repulsive, then THAT’S the best reason to elect him. You’re only value is that you’re always wrong. and that is a great value indeed. I was wrong about you, and I humbly apologize.

GOPs got 2go: repealing Roe v Wade wouldn’t end legalized abortions, only federal funding. There’s so much ignorance about civil, legal, and healthcare ramifications of this issue that it is the perfect vehicle to distract America from a real issue: Cheney’s outing of Plame: Treason? or just “Poor Judgement”. Everything is semantics, now isn’t it?

The problem, my dear friends, is not in our nom-de-plumes, but in naming our Plames.

The constitutional question here is: Does Bush’s presidential decrees in the run up to Iraq, coupled with cheney’s spy leaks constitute treason? or are they protected by executive privelege, which then, would bestow tyrannical facist powers on any prez.

The founding concept included checks and balances, which intrinsically implies that a president’s behavior needs oversight.

Thus, there exists no executive privelege that exceeds congressional authority.

Let’s just get Cheney and Bush on the stand together as the halftime show during the next superbowl.

Oh, the ratings!

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Wow! What an [insert unpleasant expletive here] the first Mr. G was!

Good for you, Mrs. G.

By hillbilly ragger

August 19, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Mrs. G, thanks for the personal history. And good for you for sticking to your principles.

And in honor of that term you like so much:

Comin to ya on a dusty road Good lovin I got a truck load And when you get it you got something So dont worry cause Im coming

I’m ensouled man. I’m ensouled man. I’m ensouled man. I’m ensouled man.

By "The Corporal"

August 19, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

So what’s your point?

Innocent life is innocent life.

The guy who beat the puppy half to death will be severely punished but doctors who perform abortions (tearing babies apart in the third trimester) are exempt.

God help us ……………..

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Anyway, you can accurately describe me as “poll obsessed” but then that more or less describes anyone who follows politics, doesn’t it?

Actually, ragger, no it doesn’t. It describes people that don’t delve into the ramifications of the actual issues and just hold out for a snapshot of what other people that probably didn’t delve into the ramifications of the issues think.

The question of Roe v Wade is always couched in the terms that were it overturned then abortion would be illegal. That’s categorically false. <— And look! I can even say that without inverted profanity. You should try it sometime.

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

RW,

You’re always so good at explaining what people mean - thanks for your interpretation, but really, it isn’t necessary.

I interpreted Obama’s response in a different way: it isn’t his call to answer that question. His answer, in fact, was better that McCain’s scripted sound bite - programmed into the implanted hardware in the head of all winguts.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Bosch,

Why is it that in 2001 Obama didn’t think it was above his pay grade to define it? For goodness sakes, it’s a legal definition they’re talking about and he’s a lawmaker or at least plays one on TV.

Besides the question wasn’t when does one acquire human rights it was when does one acquire human rights, in your opinion.

Why can’t he even share his opinion with us now?

By Midori

August 19, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Your only value is that you’re always wrong.

I’ve been saying this for months.

Exactly WHAT have they been right about?

Now THAT observation falls exactly within the rim of my pay grade……

By Paul

August 19, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Couple points of unfinished business:

Running mates - Obama would be well served by Biden or Nunn. I don’t know if Nunn’s been vetted so I’ll guess Biden. Just don’t look forward to years of listening to him.

For McCain: I’d love to see Lieberman. Talk about “change” and “reaching across the aisle.” But I don’t know if his advisors can stomach that much change. Then there’s Romney. Has the business side down. The political survival in the northeast. Will drive evangelicals nuts - not just abortion, but because of his religion - and that aspect cuts across a wide swath of liberal America, too. But he has the private business experience, the governorship - and he’d be one for the second term if McCain says “enough.”

But I’m hoping for the Return of the Maverick. With Lieberman.

AJC/DNC Management

Quite a bit about Obama’s speaking without a teleprompter (and how good McCain does in such situations). You seem to like Biblical examples, so I’d like to offer one for your consideration. From Exodus. Third and fourth chapters. God appeared to Moses. Moses - well educated, thoughtful kind of guy. Said “take my people out of Egypt and tell them what I’m telling you.” Moses’s response? “Sorry, can’t do it. I’m a lousy speaker. A slow speaker. I can’t.” God said “don’t worry - I’ll let you know what to say, and if you’re worried about the public settings and what people will think, well, your brother Aaron can speak on your behalf.”

Just a thought that maybe some of the characteristics we put great store in aren’t really all that important.

By Midori

August 19, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

NEW YORK (CNN) — Russia invades Georgia and President Bush goes on vacation. Our president has spent one-third of his entire two terms in office either at Camp David, Maryland, or at Crawford, Texas, on vacation.

His time away from the Oval Office included the month leading up to 9/11, when there were signs Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America, and the time Hurricane Katrina destroyed the city of New Orleans.

Sen. John McCain takes weekends off and limits his campaign events to one a day. He made an exception for the religious forum on Saturday at Saddleback Church in Southern California.

I think he made a big mistake. When he was invited last spring to attend a discussion of the role of faith in his life with Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, at Messiah College in Pennsylvania, McCain didn’t bother to show up. Now I know why.

It occurs to me that John McCain is as intellectually shallow as our current president. When asked what his Christian faith means to him, his answer was a one-liner. “It means I’m saved and forgiven.” Great scholars have wrestled with the meaning of faith for centuries. McCain then retold a story we’ve all heard a hundred times about a guard in Vietnam drawing a cross in the sand.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

I know this is last night’s topic, but it will be very interesting to see what comes of this.

The 26 NATO foreign ministers will hold their emergency meeting at the Alliance headquarters in the Belgian capital on Tuesday where they are set to offer help and support to Tbilisi while sending a strong message to Moscow over its military intervention there.

The extraordinary meeting was called by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice who is seeking a comprehensive review of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s relations with Moscow

By Midori

August 19, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Asked about his greatest moral failure, he cited his first marriage, which ended in divorce. While saying it was his greatest moral failing, he offered nothing in the way of explanation. Why not?

Throughout the evening, McCain chose to recite portions of his stump speech as answers to the questions he was being asked. Why? He has lived 71 years. Surely he has some thoughts on what it all means that go beyond canned answers culled from the same speech he delivers every day.

He was asked “if evil exists.” His response was to repeat for the umpteenth time that Osama bin Laden is a bad man and he will pursue him to “the gates of hell.” That was it.

He was asked to define rich. After trying to dodge the question — his wife is worth a reported $100 million — he finally said he thought an income of $5 million was rich.

One after another, McCain’s answers were shallow, simplistic, and trite. He showed the same intellectual curiosity that George Bush has — virtually none.

LOL — When teleprompters attack!!!

By Dredging Bottom

August 19, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

“Actually, ragger, no it doesn’t. It describes people that don’t delve into the ramifications of the actual issues and just hold out for a snapshot of what other people that probably didn’t delve into the ramifications of the issues think.”

Sure, I followed THAT along. Just stick to Rushannity and you’ll shine here, Brit Hume.

And bosch, I’ve warned you B4 about coddling these stalking trolls. It’s like when Oprah used to let the KKK on her show until she realized that they were simply spreading the hate. All you’ll get from RW is GOP approved hatespeak or that last bit of prattle I exposed above. They TRY not to make sense to distract, and you fall for it hook line and sinker.

corporal duhng, stop using god’s name in vain. It sounds like garbage out of your mouth. try televangelism’s blogs. you’ll be quite popular.

tax, andy’s all seeing abilities are Rush’s all seeing abilities. He thinks he’s the only one that listens to talk radio, I guess, and then he hacks it like it’s his ideas and delivery. and then he’s proud of himself.

BTW: notice how RW is still using italics, like I fooled him into doing, because if nobody can read them, then he dont get read, yet he’s just wants to defy me. How easily manipulated the Right is.

Obama 08: America’s turn.

By "The Corporal"

August 19, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Pot Pourri:

Is there any way we can get Obama in that “Cone of Silence” ??

Odd how liberals claim to be in the right based on religion when this is the first campaign they’ve ever used that tactic - kind of like those who only show up for church on Easter!

Let’s let Private Obama go to Russia and get tough with Putin over this war! Maybe he can wear that USMC T-shirt he likes to wear when he plays basketball. That would really scare them !

Isn’t it amazing that the leader of the “Democratic” party won’t allow a “democratic” vote on drilling for oil ?

By Paul

August 19, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Midori

“Russia invades Georgia and President Bush goes on vacation.” Wasn’t the Pres already in China when the Russians began their move? So he didn’t “go” on vacation. And what difference did it make? Does CNN mean he, not the Sec of State, should have done the personal diplomacy? Or were they pressing for more American involvement than what we had? Or is it just another attempt to belittle?

“It occurs to me that John McCain is as intellectually shallow as our current president. When asked what his Christian faith means to him, his answer was a one-liner”

I’ll resist the urge to cite all the many, many times, when asked a seemingly difficult question, Jesus gave a one-liner (Apostle Paul followed that example in his letters) - but you get the point.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Paul,

The rumor floating around this morning is that McCain will take Rudy for VP. I’m starting to think it’ll be Pawlenty, but I still have hopes for Palin.

By Mrs. Godzilla

August 19, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

What do you right leaners think about the possibility of McCain selecting a pro-choice VP?

Is that a deal changer for y’all?

By @@

August 19, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Dealing with a like…….really, really pregnant planet falls within OBlahMa’s pay grade.

“We Can’t Just Live Our Lives As We Want To And Expect Other Countries To Like Us.

“We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times….”

“That’s not leadership. It’s not gonna happen.”

OBlahMa says drive what I tell ‘ya. Eat what I tell ‘ya and by all means…..you may come into this world nekkid, but wrap YOURSELVES up in a blanket, not unwanted babies.

Save the planet…..consume a baby before they consume our resources and pollute The Big Blue Overly Pregnant Ball.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Mrs. G. @ 12:29,

It would make no difference to me even if I was going to vote for McCain.

By norman ravitch

August 19, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

At what point did John McCain become a human being? At the point of deception.

By @@

August 19, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Rudy for VP.

Be still my heart.

By @@

August 19, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Is that a deal changer for y’all?

Mrs. G:

Nope! Just get me out of the business of funding what I don’t support — unrestricted access to abortions.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

@@,

Does that mean we’ll have to go on a strict arugala diet?

By hillbilly ragger

August 19, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

RW, sorry, no.

You assert “The question of Roe v Wade is always couched in the terms that were it overturned then abortion would be illegal.”

How do you get “abortion would be illegal” from “In general, do you agree or disagree with the 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision that established a woman’s right to an abortion?”

There is nothing in that question about whether abortion would be made automatically illegal.

That said, it is safe to assume that there are plenty of people in certain states (perhaps all 50, actually) who’d try to introduce legislation to ban the procedure. If that’s what people are thinking when they answer such a polling question, that’s because they’ve been informed by the campaigns the pro-criminalization side has mounted for decades.

(and yeah, I am going to go on referring to the radical “pro-life” side as “pro-criminalization,” because THAT’s the sticking point for most.)

“And look! I can even say that without inverted profanity. You should try it sometime.”

Oh, stop being so effin’ prissy, and stop lecturing me on what’s polite conversation, when you can’t go ten minutes without calling my party’s nominee, the Harvard Law grad and US senator, a “dunce.” Respect’s a two way street, trollboy, and you ain’t earned it yet. I’m perfectly polite to those of differing views who’ve exhibited basic courtesy in these comments threads; just ask Paul or Hillbilly Deluxe, two center-righties with whom I’ve taken issue at times, but on a civil-discourse level.

By Midori

August 19, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

well Paul - quoting Jesus is above my pay grade (lucky for me). So now you’re comparing McInsane to Jesus? LOL!!! Better put your teleprompter in the shop. It sorely needs repairs.

Yo Corporal - food for thought

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

RW,

I don’t know why Obama said that, why don’t you email him?

OR, maybe after seven years, he had time to think about it and come up with a better answer than the programmed, robotic answer that McCain gave - the one that all wingnut robots give, for that matter.

By Hillbilly Deluxe

August 19, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

To those who think Georgia is a backwards state there are many roads leading out in all directions.

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Oh and Paul - one thing before I go out -

McCain/Lieberman ‘08

Oh, I hope so. Talk about a landslide!

Later!

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

*established a woman’s right *

That’s a pretty good start, ragger. We don’t establish rights through judicial fiat.

If you think Paul is a center righty you really don’t pay much attention, but I guess that was obvious already.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Multiple choice quiz: Helen Thomas has been covering the White House for 48 years. Which of the following stories did she break?

The answer, of course, is E, though you might not guess it from the fawning HBO documentary Thank You, Mr. President: Helen Thomas At The White House, the latest unfortunate example of the increasing tendency to confuse public temper tantrums with good journalism.

By Paul

August 19, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Midori

Actually, one of the more enjoyable books I recently read is titled “Misquoting Jesus.”

Seems to me we’re still hung up on style. But that’s to be expected, given the last eight years of making fun of the current President’s speaking style.

I suppose one could flip it and say “hey, we had a great orator in the office - Reagan. Care for a rerun?”

Y’know, I’ll bet Mr. Bookman was one of those kids in classe who asked the loaded, innocuous questions and then sat back and was roundly entertained.

hillybilly ragger

“center-right”? You’ve just not broached the fun topics yet!

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

OR, maybe after seven years, he had time to think about it and come up with a better answer

He didn’t have an answer to the question that was asked, he came up with a load of gibberish. If that’s the best he can do in seven years then I’m sure you can tell why I think he’s a dunce. He’d make one heckuva news reader though. Maybe he should be going after Cutie Katie’s job.

By Patriot4Life

August 19, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

Midori: Quoting Jesus is above your pay grade, and way above RW’s gay pride.

Ode to RW:

tap tap on the toilet seat

tap tap tap with his stick

his wedding ring scours the underside

of the stall that he’s betwixt.

because he knows he’s GOP

he’s plausibly in denial

and when he trolls

with sunday’s scroll

he’s righteous all the while.

.

By BeeJay

August 19, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Abortion is an issue on which one’s mind rarely is changed by any argument by anyone. All I want to say is that Bookman will say anything contrary to a Republican’s point of view and make it sound as loony as he can without any concession to any single, small point of logic or fact. If Obama or any Dem had said what McCain did, Bookman would have left it alone. Know this about Bookman beyond anything else.

By GMAN

August 19, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Rick Warren: Senator McCain, what has been one of your greatest moral failures?

Senator McCain: When I cheated on my cancer stricken 1st wife and left her high and dry for my current one.

GOP - Taking Pride in Ignorance!

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Here’s a pretty cool electoral map

It shows The Dunce with 275 electoral votes as of today, which we all know is enough to put him in the White House. It also has a feature where you can look at this day in 2004. Kerry had 301.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 19, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

By Taxpayer August 19, 2008 11:17 AM Andy at 10:53 “August 19, 2008 10:13 AM has that stopped you from proclaiming an end to human civilization?”

Yes or no?

By Poste Haste

August 19, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Shawn Johnson won the balance beam GOLD!

She is amazing. I see a Wheaties Box in her future. (not on the cover, but on the sides as a missing person cause RW is still unlocked-up behind bars)

bwa

By @@

August 19, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Does that mean we’ll have to go on a strict arugala diet?

It could RW, yes it could. OBlahMa’s objective is to leave the poor to a diet of stale government cake for which he expects eternal gratitude.

~~~~~~~~~OO~~~~~~~~~

Ukraine’s fairer sex, Yulia Timoshenko appears to be caving in to Putin in exchange for his political and financial backing of her 2009-2010 presidential bid. Yushchenko is pushing to have charges of treason brought against her.

Putin targets the weaker sex. He’s got his eye on OBlahMa.

~~~~~~~~~~OO~~~~~~~~~

Paul:

Look in your e-mail for a Stratfor Analysis entitled “United States: Troop Availability and the ‘Window of Opportunity” and tell me what it’s saying please.

Do so at your convenience. Unlike OBlahMa, I will not be telling you what to read, and when to read it.

Turn off your T.V. though. You’re using too much electricity.

By JAY BOOKMAN

August 19, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

@@, he seems to have found a useful little playtoy in the soul-seeking guy from Texas….

By Midori

August 19, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Well wingnuts - I must go put food on my family, especially if I want to progress to the next pay grade, teleprompter in tow.

Later.

By ByteMe

August 19, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

RW @ 1:10PM, are you just writing stupid stuff for fun or are you pretending to be someone else?

It also has a feature where you can look at this day in 2004. Kerry had 301.

The convention was in late July 2004, so what you are seeing is the post-convention bounce (which we all know was wasted) to a pre-convention lead. Did you know that or did you just go into “react mode” at what you felt were cheery thoughts?

By GMAN

August 19, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

When asked (John McCain) what his Christian faith means to him, his answer was a one-liner. “It means I’m saved and forgiven.”

This is an answer that I would expect someone that just got saved to give, not someone that has been truely walking in his faith any length of time.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 19, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Now here is somebody almost as dumb as Lord High Dimwit:

Biden could be named as Barack Obama’s running mate for the US presidential elections in November. US political junkies will be casting nervous glances at their mobile phones this week, with Obama promising to name his running mate by text message and email.

Almost.

He would have a clean and articulate running mate.

Instead of some nasty as-s typical……..

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Remember The Dunce telling us all about his example of proving he could work across party lines the other night at saddleback? He said he worked with John McCain on ethics reform and a bill got passed. He left out the middle of that story.

Obama cited McCain here as his cover for acting in a bipartisan or non-partisan fashion. The detailed account of this “teamwork” from David Freddoso’s new book [The Case Against Barack Obama, pp. 97-99] puts the lie to Obama’s account. In fact Obama approached McCain and “promised to work with him seriously on a bipartisan lobbying and ethics reform package,” in February 2006. After some work “McCain thought they had an agreement.” Freddoso continues: “Then Obama’s party leaders took him aside and set him straight. They had an election plan, and they weren’t about to have [Obama] ruin that by working on both sides of the aisle to accomplish something substantive in 2006.”

Freddoso then reprints the account of the Obama double-cross reported by Marc Ambinder, then working for the highly respect National Journal. Obama sent McCain a letter backing out of the effort.. McCain responded with a blistering rebuke. “I concluded your professed concern for the institution and the public interest was genuine and admirable,” McCain responded. “[T]hank you for disabusing me of such notions.

By @@

August 19, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

John McCain’s response:

“My greatest moral failing, and I have been a very imperfect person, is the failure of my first marriage.

Bill Clinton’s greatest moral failing:

When “I did not have sex with that woman….Monica Lewinsky.”

Oops……wait a minute

he did have sex with her after all. So his greatest moral failing would be when he knowingly lied to the American public?

By @@

August 19, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

@@, he seems to have found a useful little playtoy in the soul-seeking guy from Texas

But Jay……George Bush doesn’t have manboobs like OBlahMa. (ISH)

How exactly is a president to avoid an unforeseen sequence of events unless, of course, he chooses to spend all of his time thinking and talking about what he’s gonna do, like OBlahMa.

Thomas Sowell had a pretty good article today.

Georgia on Our Mind

I believe McCain said that Georgia was in our hearts and on our minds, and Putin was on notice.

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly Deluxe at 12:46 PM

“To those who think Georgia is a backwards state there are many roads leading out in all directions.”

That is some heavy stuff, Dude. But wouldn’t the “backwards” folk be looking for roads leading “in” in all directions. Just a thought.

Corporal,

You keep trying to push those buttons and the black knight might just show up again and leave you mumbling something about it only being a flesh wound. Of course, that’s just an unsubstantiated rumor.

For Anyone,

What is conception. Is it necessarily true that “it” is at that instant in time when human sperm meets egg and fertilization is completed successfully or is “it” perhaps at a time when one has made a plan, a commitment so to speak, to make whatever effort is needed in order to achieve this ultimate goal of delivering a fertilized egg for incubation or is “it” at a point in time in the incubation process after which a heart and brain and other organs needed to sustain a life have satisfactorily formed or is “it” a pre-ordained event that will appear to us at its prescribed time and place while residing in a realm that transcends time and space as we understand it until said time…Just curious.

By @@

August 19, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

I choose:

when one has made a plan, a commitment so to speak, to make whatever effort is needed in order to achieve this ultimate goal of delivering a fertilized egg for incubation

also adding that a failure to plan is a plan to fail…..

but at whose expense? Should it really be at the expense of a life who wasn’t involved in the initial decision?

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

“By AJC/DNC Management August 19, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this By Taxpayer August 19, 2008 11:17 AM Andy at 10:53 “August 19, 2008 10:13 AM has that stopped you from proclaiming an end to human civilization?”

Yes or no?”

Andy, you’re kinda slow, aren’t you. I’ll give you all the time you need to think about that one and I’ll even let you know when you “get it”. You see how nice I am. I wouldn’t do that for just anyone but I think you’re special.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

ByteMe,

I have no control over what day it is and the site doesn’t appear to let you pick the day you want to see, but in two weeks we’ll see what it says. Maybe The Dunce will so dazzle the stadium crowd with his magic teleprompter that we’ll just call off the election.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Somebody is trying to hide something for some reason.

Although the press has been notably lax about pursuing the matter, the full story of the Obama-Ayers relationship calls the truth of Obama’s account seriously into question. When Obama made his first run for political office, articles in both the Chicago Defender and the Hyde Park Herald featured among his qualifications his position as chairman of the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a foundation where Ayers was a founder and guiding force. Obama assumed the Annenberg board chairmanship only months before his first run for office, and almost certainly received the job at the behest of Bill Ayers. During Obama’s time as Annenberg board chairman, Ayers’s own education projects received substantial funding. Indeed, during its first year, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge struggled with significant concerns about possible conflicts of interest. With a writ to aid Chicago’s public schools, the Annenberg challenge played a deeply political role in Chicago’s education wars, and as Annenberg board chairman, Obama clearly aligned himself with Ayers’s radical views on education issues. With Obama heading up the board and Ayers heading up the other key operating body of the Annenberg Challenge, the two would necessarily have had a close working relationship for years (therefore “exchanging ideas on a regular basis”). So when Ayers and Dorhn hosted that kickoff for the first Obama campaign, it was not a random happenstance, but merely further evidence of a close and ongoing political partnership. Of course, all of this clearly contradicts Obama’s dismissal of the significance of his relationship with Ayers.

Unfortunately, I don’t yet have access to the documents. The Special Collections section of the Richard J. Daley Library agreed to let me read them, but just before I boarded my flight to Chicago, the top library officials mysteriously intervened to bar access. Circumstances strongly suggest the likelihood that Bill Ayers himself may have played a pivotal role in this denial. Ayers has long taught at UIC, where the Chicago Annenberg Challenge offices were housed, rent-free. Ayers likely arranged for the files of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge to be housed in the UIC library, and may well have been consulted during my unsuccessful struggle to gain access to the documents. Let me, then, explain in greater detail what the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC) records are, and how I have been blocked from seeing them.

i wonder if anybody knows a journalist that could look into this. Who knows, there may even be a Pulitzer in those 947 folders.

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Paul,

That book is on my night stand in the “stand by” stack.

And couldn’t you argue that since both candidates knew their audience that McCain could have come up with more elaborate responses than the canned GOP standard ad nauseum responses?

Just a thought after a nice swim in the cement pond. Phelps has nothing on me (at least in my mind)!

GMAN,

I get nauseous when I hear someone say they are “saved.”

McCain got “saved” when he got the presumptive nomination a few months ago. Politically and apparently religiously. He was never one for religion before now.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

The free ticket scam marches on.

Top fundraisers for the “Obama Victory Fund” were offered club-level seats through the end of Monday for $1,000 apiece. Also, the biggest donors to the Democratic National Convention’s host committee and select VIPs are getting ultra-plush suites at Invesco.

By GMAN

August 19, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Sorry @@, but Clinton’s not running for president. The old, lying, cheating, adulterer is…

By candide

August 19, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Getting saved: saved from what? by whom? by a dead Jew? what’s this all about but superstition and sado-masochism?

By GMAN

August 19, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Sorry @@, but Clinton’s not running for president. The old, lying, cheating, adulterer is…

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Obama needs Pennsylvania to even have a hope of winning the presidency, and in order to do that, he needs to win big in Philadelphia. Just as with Obama’s flip-flop on raising money from PACs and special interests, his principles on street money just went under the bus. Obama will send cash to the streets to buy votes in the Philly Democratic machine tradition.

By @@

August 19, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Sorry @@, but Clinton’s not running for president. The old, lying, cheating, adulterer is…

Howzbout all those women before he became president. Quite a few as I recall. Can I apply those to his run for president. Heck, I voted for the guy only to be disappointed. At least McCain came clean 30? years ago.

Have you told OBlahMa that George Bush isn’t running for president? He keeps bringing up his name. Is he old, lying, cheating or hoping to change the outcome of the election. It’s being said that OBlahMa is sounding a lot like McCain on the issues. If that’s the case, is OBlahMa Bush? Is OBlahMa, then, running against himself?

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

@@ at 1:58 PM

“I choose:

when one has made a plan, a commitment so to speak, to make whatever effort is needed in order to achieve this ultimate goal of delivering a fertilized egg for incubation

also adding that a failure to plan is a plan to fail…..

but at whose expense? Should it really be at the expense of a life who wasn’t involved in the initial decision?”

@@, if conception is in the plan, so to speak, then does a failure to carry out the plan successfully mean that a life has been taken (for example, sometimes those fertilizations just don’t work out well enough to form a viable human being even though the fertilization itself was successful by virtue of the fact that sperm met egg) just as surely as if it had been aborted. If not, then how does life begin at conception. Just trying to tie this back in with McCain’s answer. That’s all.

By Poste Haste

August 19, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer, it is murder if I ask a woman to dance at a bar and she says “Get lost, creep”. For if she had given me a chance to show my moves, she would have been butter in my hands later and we would have conceived a child.

‘muff said about abortion. I just nailed it, sir. So stfu.

“Duh, wait, I still have another hackneyed conclusion to write about when life starts, duhhhhh.”

RETARDS!

By @@

August 19, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

A new face on the horizon.

Iran’s Ahmadinejad appoints US educated scholar as advisor

I thought, gee….American educated, has worked with the faculty of International Relations of major American and European universities — this might be a good thing, but then I read this at Topix:

Expert warns of US culture substituting Islamic culture

Expert Professor of International Relations and the founding director of the International Communication Hamid Molana here Friday warned against replacement of the Islamic culture with American culture worldwide.

Molana told a group of Basijis that the US is hard at work to replace Islamic culture with its own culture.

He said the US is seriously worried with Islamic unity and awakening and that would even in the slightest degree cost it dearly.

Well I’d say we were behind “The Awakening” in Iraq.

And in a Pew Research Poll — Key findings include:

1) Overall, Muslim Americans have a generally positive view of the larger society. Most say their communities are excellent or good places to live.

2) A large majority of Muslim Americans believe that hard work pays off in this society. Fully 71% agree that most people who want to get ahead in the United States can make it if they are willing to work hard.

3) The survey shows that although many Muslims are relative newcomers to the U.S., they are highly assimilated into American society. On balance, they believe that Muslims coming to the U.S. should try and adopt American customs, rather than trying to remain distinct from the larger society. And by nearly two-to-one (63%-32%) Muslim Americans do not see a conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society.

So we’re worried about Islamic unity, eh? Looks like Muslims are doin’ just fine here in the good ol’ US of A. “U” stands for UNITED Mr. Molana.

So…..is Northwestern University a liberal arts college or what?

By @@

August 19, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer:

Then it would be by natural selection as opposed to “unnatural” selection. In other words, the twinkle in the daddy’s eye sometimes misfires causing a pupil to blow out.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer,

Please try to educate yourself

By @@

August 19, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Heyyyyyyyy!

Those were supposed to be BIG DOTS in my 3:01. What went wrong in my concept?

To heck with DOTS! Who needs ‘em?

By Paul

August 19, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Hey Bosch

I wrote yesterday that it’s essential for people to change their style depending upon the situation. Obama’s mind goes round about the details, implications, options, counterarguments, etc. It’s his style. Also – adapt to the audience. He was entering an arena populated by a group who wanted a “cut to the chase – who are you? What are you? “ performance. McCain understood that, Obama didn’t. The questions were forseeable. The responses – not pandering, not position reversals – could be delivered in a variety of ways, with all the background ruminations or just a concise conclusion. The legal implications (what was behind his “life” question) may be valid but the audience wasn’t the one to hear it – reserve that for the ABA (that’s American Bar Association, not ABBA).

I think McCain did dance a bit – the “who’s rich?” exchange. But he used it to stake out he’s not a guy who wants to tax the rich solely to give money to those with less and buy their support (how many strategists like to paint Democratic tax policy). For another take on seeing the same show and coming away with different impressions, try this:

Link: The debate – what did it reveal?

Oh, and after you read it, click the “cartoons” link –

On another front, a few days back I looked up all the bills passed by the current Congress (but the following link puts it in context). If one makes the assumption that such a body recognizes the nation’s most urgent needs, ranks them, then develops a schedule to address them (balancing what can be done with what must be done) – then I’m much more optimistic and relaxed about the state of the country. In fact, I’m ready to buy Obama’s entire “McCain is Bush III” line and encourage everyone to vote for him. And to keep the Congress firmly in a Democratic majority. It’s working great. After all, Sen Reid and Spkr Pelosi took stock of our country and gave us the bills and resolutions to address our most pressing issues.

We have National Watermelon Month. We know Dirt is a Precious Resource. We have laws naming post offices. In fact, they passed fewer laws than any Congress in 20 years.

Yep, things must be better than I thought.

Link: The country’s in great shape!

By @@

August 19, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Gosh RW, must you be so clinical? There’s no fun in that.

By "The Corporal"

August 19, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

To et al:

If I “push any buttons” it’s because your conscience is getting to you.

Regarding quotes from Jesus, here’s a very interesting point that is “almost always” left out ……….

Jesus instructed his disciples to buy swords (Luke 22:36) “…… and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one“….. this at a time when Jews were forbidden by Roman law from carrying weapons. Why? Sometimes you need to fight evil spiritually and sometimes physically. It’s just that simple.

And of course, I must ALWAYS include the His most important quote:

“I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through Me”.

By Poste Haste

August 19, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

We liberals love our fellow muslim americans, @@, YOU’RE the one that rejoices in all the little muslim babies that ended up as collateral damage in your ridiculous war in Iraq.

And just WHAT is that new symbol you’ve invented, @@? A zygote? I always thought your @@ ID resembled what grows in any petri dish in the CDC’s prickly heat research ward.

Will stop your horrid obsession with the mechanics of conception and move on?

Trolls. You cant blog with them and you cant blog without them.

By Paul

August 19, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Bosch

By “encourage everyone to vote for him” I meant McCain, not Obama. Sorry ‘bout the poor pronoun reference -

Oh, and back up earlier today - I had a beach volleyball cartoon for you -

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

@@,

By AJC/DNC Management

August 19, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer: alright, I’ll take that as a “no, we haven’t let that stop us from proclaiming the end of human civilization.”

Flat earther.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Does anybody know why The Whiner is blubbering about people questioning his patriotism today?

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Poste Haste,

You are too easy. For example, I could come back with something like, “Your abortion is one that didn’t get written about. So, who’s the lucky one[s], us or you?” And the stfu is so antique. Did you invent that as well. You’re that clown that people call Po Fo, aren’t you. Come on, you can tell me. If my assumption regarding your “identity” is correct then I’m sure that your reaction will be most predictably obnoxious, dreadfully arrogant and rife with venom, as usual. So, get on with it now that I have challenged your reputation as well…we know.

After all, you do this for the lame reason as most of us, the attention and the limbaugh, right. Am I right, Huh, Huh.

P.S. I won’t be back for a while since I have to go pick up my daughter so take your time, don’t post so hastily this time around and put together something really — no, really — clever. If not for me, then for my daughter. She gets a kick out of reading some of these posts as much as I do. She is only 14 though so try to keep it PG, OK. Thank you in advance for your consideration. If you choose to be less than considerate with the age-inappropriate language, then I hope that Jay will intervene before my daughter’s eyes have a chance to peer upon such words that do not belong. Anyway, that’s all for you for now. I do hope that I did not ramble too much.

As for @@, please feel free to answer me if you wish. I’m done with the little annoyance and I apologize for taking time away from our discussion to address it.

By Jeff

August 19, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Life does begin at conception, or actually the eggs and sperm are alive even before conception, the problem is that this doesn’t solve anything. For that matter, bacteria are alive, and insects and fish and plats and mushrooms, they are all forms of “life”. The scientific answers is that eggs and sperm are alive, and at the moment of conception the blastula is “alive”. But is this life “conscious”? No. Is this life “human” No, its a small clump of cells, it is not a “human being”. So the question is really wrong to start with, but of course that how the anti-choice crowd wants it. Is the fertilized egg a “potential human life”? Yes, but so is every single sperm and every single egg. The reality is that nature isn’t black and white or ct and dry and simply, it is complex and hard to define.

Does life start at conception? Sure. Is that life a “human being”? No. Should the life of that embryo trump the life of the human being that is carrying it? No.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 19, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Mr. Obama struck back with tough language, although his delivery was largely without passion. He received a polite but not enthusiastic response from the estimated 3,000 veterans assembled in a cavernous convention hall here. Many seats were empty because a number of veterans left Orlando ahead of the advancing tropical storm Fay.

Yeah, so how did Wonder Boy make it there, what with thee “violent” hurricane spinning all about?

Hahaha, the Veteran’s spoke their message louder than Mr. Moron did.

Bwa.

By @@

August 19, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

PoliFore/Poste Haste….or should I say Postal Hate?

When have you ever seen me relish in the death of any baby, muslim or otherwise? Do you/did you conveniently choose to dispose of the images of babies dying at the hands of Saddam Hussein? The Taliban? Al Qaeda? Radical extremists in Darfur? Sudan?

Will stop your horrid obsession with the mechanics of conception and move on?

Whazamatta baby? All this talk bout sex got you frustrated wanker? “Wanker” — I don’t often use that word, but it appears to be well-suited for the occasion.

By Poste Haste

August 19, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Ouch! Hard to get happy after THAT one.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 19, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Right here in Nevada, the list of solar projects awaiting Bureau of Land Management approval could power millions of American homes in the not too distant future. The total solar thermal energy potential in the desert Southwest is seven times the nation’s entire electricity demand — enough to consistently charge millions of plug-in hybrid cars and trucks. We also sit atop one of the largest supplies of geothermal energy in the world, blah, blah, blah.- Hairy Reed, Dimwitocrat

Moron.

By "The Corporal"

August 19, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

To Jeff:

Then why can’t I “humanely” kill my puppies when I want to? Just because there are too many of them or I don’t like their sex or color? I would go to JAIL ! So those animals have “life” but unborn humans don’t? What a sick concept. Animals have more rights in this country than unborn humans ! God help us.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 19, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

The 110th Congress, led by the Dimwitocrats, whose term officially ends in January, hasn’t passed any spending bills or attacked high gasoline prices. But it has used its powers to celebrate watermelons and to decree the origins of the word “baseball.”

Barring a burst of legislative activity after Labor Day, this group of 535 men and women will have accomplished a rare feat. In two decades of record keeping, no sitting Congress has passed fewer public laws at this point in the session — 294 so far — than this one.

This is exactly what you get when you elect nutjobs to do the work of men, idiots huffing and puffing about the weather, Bushie and other moonbat theories, we’re screwed.

Got bicycle?

By Paul

August 19, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

AJC/DNC Management

Look on the bright side: if Congress didn’t pass any laws to fix any of our problems, at least we just have our old problems - not a bunch of new ones caused by their fixes!

By "The Corporal"

August 19, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Has anyone thought of the irony that Obama was the absolutely perfect candidate for an abortion that he so “over my paygrade” tries to support today ?

He shoudl be the “Poster Boy” for the Pro-Life movement. The caption should read, “He Could Have Been Aborted” !

By Poste Haste

August 19, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

How many civilian casualties in Iraq so far? What is the mission of US troops in Iraq. @@, you need to confront yourself, you’re living in a fantasy war that doesn’t even exist.

BTW: Great timing on that one-two set up - home run, @@. Thanx. Rarely does a chemistry work as well as ours.

Wanker was a good word for years, and I admit I abused it (dont), but apparently most Americans dont get it. It’s a british word, and I thought it meant you know, mans favorite sport, but it also means a lazy no good ne’er do well fat guy loser type who nevers does nothing except leech off society, so in that respect, I think it’s safe for you to use it, you know, write about what you know (and be yourself).

By "The Corporal"

August 19, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

P.S. to Jeff:

WHERE would you say then that a human life begins? At a certain period of gestation? First heartbeat? First brainwave? The week, day, minute BEFORE it is born? When it takes it’s first BREATH outside the womb?

You tell me when …………. because whether we disagee or not on the “when” you have to have an answer for that.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Corporal,

Obama was born in 1961, back then abortions were rare just like the libs claim to want today.

By Craig

August 19, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

The fact of the matter is that once the male sperm enters the female egg, all that is needed for a baby to be born is time & nutrition. The only criteria that is required for ending a pre-born life legally is the desire of the mother. She can “legally” choose to end the life of her fetus or bring a healthy baby to term. If she is injured in a car accident and her preborn baby is killed, the driver of the other car is facing manslaughter or wrongful death charges. This can only occur upon the death of another human being; i.e. the baby.

By steve

August 19, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

A lot of you people are on here all day long. Wish I didn’t have to go out and work for a living. No trust fund for me.

By @@

August 19, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

As for @@, please feel free to answer me if you wish. I’m done with the little annoyance and I apologize for taking time away from our discussion to address it.

I thought I did, but let me make sure I understood your choices. I chose to prevent the need for countless abortions, and instead place responsibility squarely where it belongs — on adults behaving irresponsibly and with little regard for the consequences of their actions. Those consequences (blessings in disguise) are babies.

When people are given the burden of difficult choices, they often look to others for approval thereby justifying their decision through a support system. I’ve had friends come to me in the past who were wrestling with the question. My responsibility is not to offer them approval. I offer them alternatives solutions in conjunction with my principal belief — this is a life you created — how do you choose to manage it? Solutions that they hadn’t considered under the pressures they were facing.

I am pleased to announce that I have saved three and lost one. The one, proven to be incomplete in its’ conception and destined to exist for a short time outside the womb in agony. The mother had a devoted husband/father and two other children that were to be considered. The abortion was performed very early in the pregnancy. She and I are still good friends. She was strong enough in her faith to accept God’s strength through the grieving process which was accompanied by guilt, no doubt.

Abortion on demand, for convenience sake alone, is unacceptable to me. If I had a friend who was repeatedly aborting the consequences of her actions, she would receive NO support from me.

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Andy, keep trying and remember I’ll let you know when you “get it”. I have not forgotten about you.

RW, stay out of the clinics. You would surely be mistaken for a misconception and bottled for future studies or inappropriate applications. Abi Normal comes to mind, you monster.

Corporal, quit playing with swords. You’ll hurt yourself or worse.

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

@@ at 4:08,

I apologize to you. I had the impression, for some reason, that you were of the opinion that there is no place for abortion in this world so I was “egging” you on in order to eventually hit you with one of those ‘tough” situations that we must eventually deal with as a part of life.

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Paul,

In my opinion, Congress hasn’t passed any laws because the debates go along similar to the debates here. Alot of talk with little actual substance. And until the lobbyists get their greedy little hands out of the bucket (along with the politicians greedy little hands out of the lobbyists pockets) - what do you expect?

Saxby Chambliss - God bless ‘em - he’s the one who sponsored National Watermelon Day. Well, at least I can’t say that he’s done nothing now. Watermelons are great!

Oh! Where’s the volleyball cartoon, missed it. Did you watch the match last night? They embarrassed those poor Brazilian women.

Back to Obama and that debate. I feel that maybe he’s kind of rusty going up against fundamentalists. I think people who aren’t real religious - like me - are kind of freaked out around people who are. You hear questions like “when does life begin?” and your first response is “WTF?” It throws off people because it’s just not on their level. Yes, that is inexperience because when you are the POTUS, you are expected to represent all - even the fundies. But, most people just do not think in terms like the fundies do. It’s off our radar - he’ll get the hang of it though.

And when he does, and he and McCain start talking about actual issues, McCain won’t have a chance. Obama is really too eloquent of a speaker compared to McCain.

If I were POTUS, I’d appoint someone to deal with the fundies so I wouldn’t have to be near them. There are just more important things facing our country to me than same sex marriage (who sleeps with who) and the mundane philosophical debate of abortion - that’s between you and God. It has nothing to do with the functioning of this country.

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Another thing. When I wrote earlier that it is “off our radar” and “we don’t think in those terms” - it’s not that I think Obama (or myself) are above fundies, or better or smarter, it just simple means that I don’t (and I don’t think Obama does either) think that way.

By @@

August 19, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

it also means a lazy no good ne’er do well fat guy loser type who nevers does nothing except leech off society, so in that respect, I think it’s safe for you to use it, you know, write about what you know (and be yourself).

PoliFore:

I’ll be back in the trenches fulfilling special needs after Labor Day. Can I assume you’ll be here everyday….all day long fulfilling yours in a “re-productive” manner?

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

steve,

No trust fund for me either. Just hard work, a humble life, and lots of saving. Now, if I can only get those greedy Republicans to leave my savings alone. They need to get out of government and learn to earn a living instead of living as leeches.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

You hear questions like “when does life begin?” and your first response is “WTF?”

If Obama couldn’t anticipate that question in this forum at Saddleback then he doesn’t have the brainpower to negotiate ticket prices at Disney World with Mickey Mouse, much less sit across the table with Ahmadinijihad without preconditions.

By curtis

August 19, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

A few questions, for the Pro-Lifers here. What form of birth control do you use or have you used in the past? If life begins at conception, then anyone who’s ever used an IUD or the pill could be guilty of murder, in your eyes. That leaves, what, condoms and pulling out?

If life begins at conception, but it’s okay for abortions to occur in the case of rape, incest, or threat to the mother’s life, does that mean it’s okay for anyone to go around and murder children that were the result of rape or incest or are guilty of, say, verbally threatening their mother’s life? If they’re children once the sperm meets the egg and abortion (murder?) is okay in those circumstances then, shouldn’t murder (post-birth abortion?) be okay in those circumstances as well?

By @@

August 19, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer:

I believe all the conservatives on this board have, at one time or another, shared that we/they are accepting of abortions in extenuating circumstances. We don’t want to fund them, and we don’t want a political party….any political party encouraging them through their support of.

Those of us who speak for the unborn want the freedom to ask that the question be pondered. Again….”It’s their life; what are their plans in managing it?”

I would, by the way, prefer that the question be applied to all aspects of the individual’s life.

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

RW,

Whatever. You’re “Obama is dumb” routine is getting old.

By Bosch

August 19, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Paul,

I’ve got to go get some work done - I’ll check back later for the cartoon.

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Bosch,

It was you that illustrated what a vacuous moron he is by not anticipating the question, although you could just be projecting.

By the way, The Dunce did a 40 minute press conference and there is an 8 minute recording of all the ums and errs played back to back with none of them repeating.

By Taxpayer

August 19, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

@@,

I too do not want the government funding abortions as well as many other things. I also do not want government mandating definitions of conception amongst other things. Sometimes the best thing that government can do is insure that more people’s voices are heard. Roe v. Wade, in my humble opinion, at least accomplishes that.

By Paul

August 19, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Bosch 4:27

Sorry ‘bout that. it was in my 9:46 to AJC and Mr. Bookman on the Georgia situation. But here it is:

Link: Danger in watching women’s beach volleyball

Oh, and we’re gonna take the Chinese in this - no funky gymnastics scoring here -

By RW-(the original)

August 19, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

In politics one often hears the charge of hypocrisy: My opponent criticizes me for X, but he has done Y, which is just as bad or worse. Obama’s argument here, though, is roughly opposite in form. He concedes that McCain is above reproach on this particular subject and therefore demands that McCain treat him as if he were beyond reproach. Obama’s acknowledgment of a McCain virtue is well and good, but it does not mitigate or excuse his own shortcoming

Good point, James!

By @@

August 19, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

By "The Corporal"

August 19, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

Do most of you realize that after every abortion a “nurse” or “doctor” (I use those terms loosely) has to reassemble all of those precious baby parts to make sure they got “everything”? God help us ………

By Billy

August 20, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this

Corporal —

“He shoudl be the “Poster Boy” for the Pro-Life movement. The caption should read, “He Could Have Been Aborted”!

Dubya should be the poster boy for the pro-choice movement. Same caption.

By hillbilly ragger

August 20, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

Paul @ 12.56 (a lifetime ago) - perhaps “more conservative than me” would’ve sufficed; I know I hate being characterized as “left” or “right” since the terms are archaic, really, but it’s shorthand to which we all wind up succumbing. Mea culpa.

I got the “center-right” business from stuff like your take on moveon.org, where you seemed inordinately concerned about the organization re-structuring the Democratic party as—horrors!—somewhat progressive, as opposed to the lazily corrupt corporatist machine it’s been for many years.

And we could talk about that in detail some other time, but I gotta go put food on my family. toodles.

By Paul

August 20, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

hillbilly ragger

I was attempting to make the point (represented by moveon) regarding the influence of huge sums of money have not just on influencing candidates (having them be less than candid to get nominated/elected) but quashing alternate political views, particularly within a party.

By "The Corporal"

August 20, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

To Billy:

Please think up your own captions. Show some originality.

By ac

August 21, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

The saddest part is that the Bush Administration also believes this. So much so that Secretary Leavitt from the Dept. of HHS has drafted regulations that equate contraception with abortion. They are in effect redefining when a pregnancy begins and putting lots of people who want to plan their families at risk.

By tom houlihan

August 23, 2008 6:06 AM | Link to this

Jay, Finally, someone has gotten the explanation on the issue of abortion right. The reason it sounds so crazy isn’t because it is crazy, it’s because human beings who accept anything less than total respect for life in ALL IT’S FORMS, FROM CRADLE TO GRAVE, are murderers.