Jay Bookman

By AJC/DNC Management

August 13, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

There is nothing fair about taxes these days, period, end of discussion.

If you want to make good use of your time, why not table the idea of smaller government?

Bwahahahahahahaha, yeah, right.

By ByteMe

August 13, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

And Neal without the “kill switch” to cut you off when you don’t agree with him? How will his head not explode from having to process ideas that conflict with his own?

Wear something washable, just in case there’s splatter.

By Mrs. Godzilla

August 13, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Go get ‘em Jay!

Here’s a piece from Fact Check called Unspinning the FairTax

And one from the WSJ called Fair Tax, Flawed Tax Does adding 30% to the price of every house sold sound like a good idea to you?

By getalife "whiners"

August 13, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Here is crusty the clown’s hero falling down drunk at the Olympics

Pathetic.

By Taxpayer

August 13, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Mr. Bookman,

Surely you know that we know that you know that you have now violated that “promise” — not once, but twice — now to not bring up the unmentionable subject of Fairly Odd Taxation, under the guise of FairTax[tm], again. Then again, perhaps you worded your statement differently.

By Bud Wiser

August 13, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

The only fair tax is no tax. The Founding Fathers had no clue that somewhere down the line devious politicians would forcibly take money from the populace to fund their favorite pork products, and I don’t mean barbecue. There was no provision for a Federal Income Tax, no plan, no nothing.

In a country where the idea of ‘fair’ is that 10% of the population pays 90% of all personal income taxes collected, and at least 50% of the working population pays no income tax whatsoever, Boortz/Linder’s “Fair Tax” ideas will have as much a chance of success as the Jamaican bobsled team in the Winter Olympics.

Since the current tax structure is so distorted now, mostly by punitive taxes on the successful, and the reward of little or no taxes on the deadbeats, it will not change, no matter how much discussion takes place. I can only guess which side of the issue Jay is on, and my guess is for more taxes on the ‘rich” (i.e. everyone).

There has not yet been born a politician who did not meet a tax he/she did not like, particularly a Democrat. Although these days, it is so hard to tell. I have said before, the only major difference between a Republican and a Democrat is that the Democrat will look you in the eye, say he is going to tax you if elected (ala HH Humphrey, Dukakis, Obama), then dare you to say something in reply. The Republican will look you in the eye, say he is going to lower your taxes if elected, but then afterwards changes his mind and raises your taxes anyway, but does his very best to conceal it.

At least the Democrat is an honest thief, because he tells you in advance he is going to rob you. The Republican tries to hide it, but when caught points his greasy fingers at the Dems and says “they made me do it!”

.

By Logical Dude

August 13, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer, huh?

Mr. Bookman, hopefully this will be an educational discussion on merits of FairTax, along with the faults of Fairtax. As one who has heard nothing but either complete support or utter scorn for Fairtax, it will be refreshing to hear a moderated civil discussion on the pros and cons of Fairtax.

I tend to fall in the skeptical camp that FairTax will do any good. I see many unintended consequences, but I’d like to hear both sides respond to questions and criticism.

By Robin

August 13, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Ahh, it’s nice to see the same group of mindless dirtbags sliming their way and entire days from blog to blog here, puking forth their usual inanities/insanities. RW, AJC/MAN/HOMO/DUH, Dustmite, @@, adding cretin Bud Wiser. Typical brains of thee Repunk Party. Hit don’t git no better’n thet, do hit?!? Pitiful. just pitiful weaklings.

By Dusty

August 13, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

getalife, ol’ pathetic…

So your constant snoops got a picture of a mistep at the Olympic stadium by the President !! Big deal!!

Why don’t you stick to smoking pot instead of checking shady pictures on the internet to prove your prejudice??

By Poste Haste

August 13, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

The Fair Tax has two problems that I can see: One, it raises the emotional price of everything by 20%, that is, a car that costs $40K, (a bad enough sticker shock, but becoming common), will cost $48K with the Fair Tax.

Two, in a slowing economy, the government wont get much revenue and they might start printing money like the counterfeiting scum they truly are.

Plus, the chinese women’s gymnastic’s team is only 13 years old max.

God, I hate the Chinese.

By Taxpayer

August 13, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Logical dude,

Perhaps Jay will do the honors and elaborate on some of the history of the FairTax[tm]’s past appearances on this blog. Posts on the FairTax[tm] do tend to become quite heated at times primarily due to the fact that emotions get in the way of actual discussions. The end result that is typically imposed by the cooler head — Jay — is that the thread is closed for further comment.

By hillbilly ragger

August 13, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Yuck. Depending on the tender mercies of the Corporate News Network to educate the masses about this Linder/Boortz con job? I’m not sure that was a good move to agree to the debate, Jay, but as you say, at least Boortz is going to have to deal with you mano-a-mano, which the chickensh!t has thus far managed to avoid.

Plus I’m sure you’ll get a great column out of it, one that will elicit the publication of at least two or three angry LTEs from the “NO AH ARE ESS!” set.

Bud, thanks for your fairly even-keeled reply to me @ 8.08 about digging your own well, down in the dead thread. I suppose you can argue that your well is “free(ing) up that amount of water used for the thirsty public” but as is so often the case with resource issues, one must consider what would happen if everyone had the same idea, i.e., decided to tap into those aquifers, on their own property.

And yeah, I know more and more folks are doing just that, these days; it’s becoming, short-term anyway, cost-effective to do so.

I’ll even grant your argument that there is no such thing as a “fair tax” — however, likening it to theivery is just irresponsible. It’s the cost of doing business in a civilized society, and if you don’t like it, I’d suggest that the alternative—which is regular cycles of peasant revolts, beheadings and suchlike—might be less pleasant.

By GodHatesTrash

August 13, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

It will be like shooting fish in a barrel, Jay. Boortz can’t discuss anything without a mute button. He’s a sociopathic loudmouthed moron. His listeners are almost as dumb as the Woo-ten Klanners.

He’s Andiduh without a skirt.

Have some fun - ask Boortz if he expects the prostitutes he runs with to collect the Fair Tax.

By Truth

August 13, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Here Jay… take this tissue for when Boortz makes you cry.

Plus, I agree with Dusty… Some of those girls were definately not 16…. GO USA!!!

By Bud Wiser

August 13, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Mr. Hillbilly, I don’t think that likening taxation to thievery is that big of a leap of logic. Someone (the government) is forcing someone (the citizenry) to pay them money for things that they cannot use. The threat of jail time, or worse, is the only alternative to paying without having to leave the country and renounce one’s citizenship.

I give you this for your perusal…

http://www.investopedia.com/categories/taxes.asp

By cc

August 13, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

I see most of you are kool-aid drinkers. I bet none of you even read the fair tax book. Just listening to that idiot Jay. I guess all of you don’t mind bringing home only 34 cents of each dollar you make with Obama. If I worked 40 hours I expect to get paid for 40 hours and not have the government rob me and have Obama tell me I have to give some lazy a* person part of my money because they can’t get off their fat a* and work. OH yeah and that fat Mexican, I guess we have to pay for his fat a* to lose weight. I say let him rot. No one told him to eat all that food. But since he’s a health risk, we have to pay for his fat a* to lose the weight.

By Poste Haste

August 13, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

The Fair Tax has two problems that I can see: One, it raises the emotional price of everything by 20%, that is, a car that costs $40K, (a bad enough sticker shock, but becoming common), will cost $48K with the Fair Tax.

Two, in a slowing economy, the government wont get much revenue and they might start printing money like the counterfeiting scum they truly are.

Plus, the chinese women�s gymnastic�s team is only 13 years old max.

God, I hate the Chinese.

Obama 08: America takes over, and the Chinese stink.

By cc

August 13, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

I see most of you are kool-aid drinkers. I bet none of you even read the fair tax book. Just listening to that idiot Jay. I guess all of you don’t mind bringing home only 34 cents of each dollar you make with Obama. If I worked 40 hours I expect to get paid for 40 hours and not have the government rob me and have Obama tell me I have to give some lazy a* person part of my money because they can’t get off their fat a* and work. OH yeah and that fat Mexican, I guess we have to pay for his fat a* to lose weight. I say let him rot. No one told him to eat all that food. But since he’s a health risk, we have to pay for his fat a* to lose the weight.

By AL

August 13, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Trying to talk sense about taxes or how to change our ridiculous tax code with a liberal socialist. Is like discussing the merits of taking crack away from an addict. Socialists and “Bedwetting” liberals will never give up their”crack”. It’s there way of getting their “fair share”. The Dems have convinced the poor in this country that Taxes are good. It’s sad. Poor people been voting for Democrats in this country for 60 years and they’re still broke as hell.

By Bud Wiser

August 13, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

Why is it that the Queen Bee socialist of them all, Cynthia Tucker, has no arrangement for comments upon the racist, socialist crap and drivel that she writes? Hell, she doesn’t even answer emails that I have sent questioning where she comes up with this pus-filled garbage.

I guess that when you consider yourself as part of the ‘elite’ class (which in itself is hilarious, considering her ethnicity), you don’t empower your lessors by responding to them. They might feel like they are part of the solution, not part of the problem.

As long as one keeps quiet, votes in lockstep with the direction of the Massa Howard Dean and the DNC…keeps sending in those campaign dollars… turns up LOUDLY at all Democrat rallies…turns up LOUDER and more disruptive at Republican rallies… stays sensitive to nature and believes in global warming, or is gay, black, or a combination of both… or of duel sexuality…believes in same sex marriages… the murder of the unborn passed off as choice, but no choice when the one being murdered has no voice…. then you are, and will continue to be, a good Democrat.

If you believe that America needs a new direction toward socialism, that success should be rewarded with more punishment through more taxes, that if one is a deadbeat then the rest of us need to pitch in and help him continue to be a deadbeat, that we should all have ‘free’ health care and somebody else should pay for it, that we should all walk or ride bicycles to work, that SUV’s or pickup trucks are evil symbols of debauchery, that God is dead…..then you are, and will continue to be, a good Democrat.

But please, for the love of God, don’t come crying your eyes out to us in the Fall, or say how you were ‘cheated’ and file suit (again) when your boy gets handed his hat and his walking papers in the election. It is going to happen. You know it deep in what you think to be a heart. I know it.

No extreme liberal like Obama has ever won a Presidential contest. America as a whole is just right of center, politically. America may be ready culturally for its first black man to be President, but not this black man. He is too far off the charts left to make people nervous. And the company he keeps? Jeremiah Wright? Bill Ayers? Tony Resko? He is a loser just like them, and just like you.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

By Bud Wiser

August 13, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

BTW, good luck Jay, trying to get in a word edgewise with Boortz on the same table. I am sure he will ask you if you have read (and bought) his books concerning the Fair Tax. He is an egocentric maniac par none; if you don’t think so, just ask him.

By cc

August 13, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Preach on Al and Bud Wiser.

By GodHatesTrash

August 13, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

You can’t expect a decent human being like Cynthia Tucker to answer emails from maniacs and sociopaths and trigger-happy animals like you, Butt Wiper.

Living in the land of the lynch-mobbers like Ms.Tucker does is an act of bravery. One cannot expect her to put herself even more in harm’s way by corresponding with known crazies and misanthrope racists.

By Bud Wiser

August 13, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

I was talking to people with a brain GodHatesTrash, and that does not include psychos like you, so shut the hell up.

By Taxpayer

August 13, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Mr. Bookman,

Do you see what you have started! Do YOU! Why. Why! WHY, did you have to bring up that…that…I can’t even bring myself to say it again. Anyway, you know what I mean.

By sunshine and thunder

August 13, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Any discussion about the FairTax between the likes of Jay Bookman and Neal Boortz is going to be a discussion about government meddling in taxpayer behavior (Bookman) vs. taxpayers free to decide when and where to pay taxes, if at all (Boortz).

http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/TheEconomicEffectsoftheFairTax-ResultsfromBHI.pdf

By Taxpayer

August 13, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

I knew it was just a matter of time before someone would provide a link to fairtax.org. It’s downhill from here.

By @@

August 13, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Well Jay, since the definition of fair seems to be subjective, let’s go for The Equal Tax.

“Equal”…….that’s a word that democrats embrace.

I would just like to say that I have been unfairly taxed by government for most of my adult life. Would it be fair to ask that everyone enjoy an equal share of my privilege?

CNN huh?

By JFW

August 13, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Get a haircut, Mister!

By AJC/DNC Management

August 13, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

A new Pew Research national poll shows Obama’s comfortable 8-point lead in June now at just 3 points (July 31-August 10, 2414 RV). By a two-to-one margin, voters attach McCain’s name to the phrase, “personally qualified to be president,” while Obama is associated with the more personal attributes, such as “connects well with people.”

Well, it’s a good thing for the Repugs that this an election for president and not for youth camp guidance counselor.

By RW-(the original)

August 13, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

The operative phrase in Jay’s note is that CNN will be editing this event so what’s the point of watching?

What I’d like to see is a panel discussion where some of you FairTax haters has to defend or for that matter even describe accurately our current tax code.

The most disingenuous argument against the FairTax is that it would add 30% to the cost of everything. Anybody that believes that doesn’t believe in Capitalism, although it’s pretty easy to figure that out just by looking at the politics of the detractors

The odd thing is that it would really take it’s toll on the lobbyists you libs claim to want to get rid of..

Not to mention that with the FairTax a block of leftists really could defund the Iraq war.

By RW-(the original)

August 13, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Are the hamsters that run this server on strike again?

By Sparky Anderson

August 13, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Jay, I wish you would approach this issue with and open mind. I wonder how you are benefiting from our current broken tax system. Have you ever wondered why our dollar is free falling? Why we are hated abroad? The government thinks we are too stupid to know how to spend our money. So, they will tax us and spend it for us.

The question is, what is your proposal for reform? None? So, we could call your stance the MOTS (more of the same).

By AJC/DNC Management

August 13, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

The events of the past four or five days in the Caucasus make one point very clearly, and we should all note it: it is of the uselessness of thumb-sucking international organisations in the face of a populous and heavily armed country that chooses to behave not in what President Bush has called a 21st-century fashion, but in an early 19th-century one.

And that’s^^ just what the British think.

The EU will not admit it, but its preposterous posing as something beyond a trading cartel is further exposed by its attempts to intervene in the crisis, and by its failure to make any impact at all.

Only one set of utterances will have given the Russians pause for thought - and only just - and that is what the Americans are saying. If America were to deliver on a threat to put relations between Russia and the West back on a Cold War footing, would that really be so good for the Kremlin?

Only America has the muscle, the will and the sense of leadership to deal with this. Look at the pathetic response from our own Prime Minister and the pretender to his post, the Foreign Secretary: we can have no dog in this fight to uphold democratic values.

George W Bush, leader of the Free World.

Deal with it.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 13, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

CBS4 News has learned if mass arrests happen at the Democratic Convention, those taken into custody will be jailed in a warehouse owned by the City of Denver. Investigator Rick Sallinger discovered the location and managed to get inside for a look.

The dimwitocrats know how many goons and hacks that they have who need constant adult supervision.

Especially their presidential candidate, hahahahahahahaha, suckers.

By Dan

August 13, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

This is quite the mismatch, fact vs fantasy so it is unlikely to come to a resolution since people who ignore facts in forming their opinions are seldom swayed from said opinion when presented with facts they have already chosen to ignore. For the slow pokes who have zero grasp of basic economics (or logical thinking in general) this means Neal can talk til he is blue in the face (and this clearly takes a long time for him) but in the end Jay still won’t get it, or at least he will pretend not to in order to keep his ignorant fan base happy

By Charles

August 13, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

This should be interesting as long as the Clinton News Network doesn’t edit out the full conversation. Whenever you discuss the facts of the FairTax people like Jay can’t make a valid argument against its merits.

Either way it will be fun watching Neal make Jay look like the total fool that he is.

By ron

August 13, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

I have no problem with a fair tax scheme as long as there are no exemptions.Tax every transaction and I will support it.Put in just one exemption and my support will evaporate faster than Lake Lanier.

By MiddleClassTaxpayer

August 13, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

As I see it, the same group is going to get it where the sun doesn’t shine as always, the upper middle class.

I am one of those misfortunates that is too poor to get the big breaks that Republicans give out, and too rich for the handouts the liberal Democrats want to pass out. Case in point, this recent tax incentive check…I got a reduced one, $364, because I was single and making over 75K (which I work 50-60 hours a week to get)…it did not matter to either group that my income is taxed at the 34% rate on top and that does not count SS Tax, Medicare Tax, State Income Tax, etc. If they take anything more, I am going to have to start sending them money on payday instead of even receiving a check.

My point is that the one’s who always get screwed are that hapless minority that are neither rich nor poor. “Never anything in that bag for us, Toto”.

By Taxpayer

August 13, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Well, Jay, you have certainly managed to bring out the nut cases from their FairTax[tm] closets. It’s as though they are stored away in waiting for these very days. Let’s hurry up and get this over with so they can go back in cold storage. We need to pack Linder and Boortz away at the same time though.

By linny

August 13, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

oy. the “emotional” problem is that you use your emotional brain to look at this … the NEW car will cost, ultimately, about the same it does now BECAUSE the manufacturer will NOT have to pay payroll taxes, an accountant JUST to do the payroll (or a payroll company), SSI, etc etc etc that is paid now. Thus the cost of production of the vehicle goes DOWN. by approximately the same percentage the FairTax ADDS. AND the used car when sold generates NO taxation, thus less paperwork. PLUS — when you contract to work for say $50,000…you GET $50,000. no junk coming out of that paycheck. AND … figured into the fair tax plan is a rebate each month for the amount of tax that is calculated that would be spent per person in the household for necessities — so each household would automatically be given (debit card maybe?) X dollars every month in repayment for those “necessity taxes” (food, etc) that IS charged.

When the cost of production goes down, and the cost of the new item thus goes down, AND you get rebates for the tax on necessities, AND you can count on your paycheck being what you bargained for…

seems like a whole new ballgame to me.

just sayin’ … it’s at least worth reading the book … with an open mind

By Mrs. Godzilla

August 13, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

The White House has started to panic over a July 9 meeting between Condi Rice and Mikhiel Saakashvili, desperate to suggest they didn’t encourage Georgia’s crack-down in South Ossetia. Given that panic, I wonder whether Karl Rove had any similar chats with Saakashvili when they were in Yalta together just days later? Now, there’s been a lot of justified chatter about the role of Randy Scheunemann, who appears to be advising the Republic of Georgia at the same time as he provides campaign advice to John McCain.

AND

Is the Russia/Georgia conflict an October Surprise?

Makes a person go….HMMMMMMMM??

By brad

August 13, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

National sales tax, How much more FAIR can you get.

By Dusty

August 13, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Mrs. Godzie,4:54

You are always going Hmmmmmmm. I suspect it is time for your wermouth..

An October surprise in August??? McCain’s advisor the culprit!!! No mention of Cheney this time??

You did remember to mention Condi and Carl Rove but you FORGOT to say “Bush did it!!”

Definitely time for the wermouth, Madame. Call the butler..

By Taxpayer

August 13, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Smaller government and minimized expenditures. Two things that real conservatives want but never get. If Republicans would simply work on these two items, then a truly fair taxation would follow naturally. Republicans are by far bigger spenders than Democrats. How can they argue for a fair tax when the expenditures that they approve are not what we want our money spent on to begin with. How many conservatives asked for a stimulus check or for a wasteful prescription drug benefit or for a Wall Street bailout and that’s just for starters. True conservatives are being handed one line of crap after another and the sad part is that they’re buying it all hook, line, and sinker. We need Republicans that actually treat our tax money as though it were ours instead of theirs to do with as they please.

By RW-(the original)

August 13, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

linny,

That’s a pretty good description, but also keep in mind that the embedded tax component cost goes away for every single part that goes into making that car from outside companies too thus further lowering the cost.

By RW-(the original)

August 13, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

This apparently happened two weeks ago

Do you think we might have heard a little more about it if this had been a Republican? Fast forward to about the 1:50 mark if you don’t want to hear what she’s calling bovine excrement on.

By Tared and feathered

August 13, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

POSTE HASTE IS A TROLL!!! He posts on this and many other ajc blogs using 15 diferent names like Fruitless objections, pigskin life, truth march, nice to fool, oz, analcord, cop talk, ty cobb, harry willis, and many many more. This fake old man deserves to be ignored.

By Rick

August 13, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

I do not care if the rate is 50% as long as every illegal pays and every drug dealer pays. It is fair in that the 90% of people who do not pay taxes will have to with this system. want to make your butt pucker..Pay 15 - 17k thu out the year and then write a check for another 25k in april. I am sick and damned tired of the lame a* people who get more money back than they payed into the system. Their should be no system in place that takes a single dollar from one person and gives it to another. And if so it should be repaid. No one is entitled to a penny of my income unless I decide to give it to them.

By RW-(the original)

August 13, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Oh no!!! Whatever the….ahem….ecowarriors do?

DENVER - Thousands of delegates, politicians, supporters and protesters are expected to descend upon Denver for the Democratic National Convention in two weeks. One thing they may not find is a ride around town due to a lack of limousines.

“Everyone wants a limo, but you can only supply so many,” said Gene Cookenboo, president of the Limousine Association of Colorado and owner of Presidential Limousine, the largest limo service in Denver.

According to records, 271 limo companies are registered at DIA. However, Cookenboo says the majority of those companies only have one to three cars. It comes at a time when limo companies are expected to make 125 runs a day during the DNC compared to 80 during a normal week

By Taxpayer

August 13, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

Republicans are sucking the blood out of taxpayers every day and the sad part about it is that they are doing it in a way that hides the pain while claiming that Democrats are wanting to tax everyone. Republicans are borrowing billions and billions to fund everything from stimulus checks to prescription drug benefits to wall street bailouts and more. Then, we get stuck with the tab plus interest and the Republicans will just blame their disaster on the Democrats. Republicans wouldn’t know a fair tax if it came up and announced itself by taking a bite out of their buttocks. Meanwhile, two-thirds of the country’s businesses are not paying any taxes and wealthy individuals are hiding their incomes in foreign accounts to avoid taxes as well. Why aren’t there any Republicans trying to fix those problems instead of creating them or, even worse, hiding behind yet another panacea such as FairTax[tm]. FairTax[tm] does not reduce any government spending therefore it does nothing to forward a conservative agenda. You are being snookered if you believe otherwise. The only way to reduce government spending is to not spend. Try it at home and prove it for yourself — it really works.

By RW-(the original)

August 13, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer,

Take a deep breath and then go check who has control of both houses of Congress.

By Taxpayer

August 13, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

RW,

AHHHHH….HHHHHHHAAAA (deep breath)

The president has the veto power and he is the one who signed off on all that spending. Also, the Democrats do not have a veto-proof majority in the Senate. So, are you admitting that Bush is not a Republican.

By RW-(the original)

August 13, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer,

He’s certainly not a small government Republican.

Nice twist though claiming that Democrats can get all of their crazy spending bills just because they know we have a big spender in the White House and it’s still completely the fault of Republicans.

By Taxpayer

August 13, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

One might certainly pose a convincing argument either way regarding who is the bigger spender, Republican or Democrat, at the Fed level. At the (Georgia) state level, the tax and spend Republicans are in the clear majority throughout. I think the headline the other day was something to the effect that state tax revenues (just the fact that our government refers to taxes gathered as revenues instead of something like burden or collections is bad enough since it speaks poorly of their mentality regarding taxation) were down 6% or something like that and the Republicans were talking about taking back tax cuts amongst other things. Now, my idea of a conservative, small government Republican is one that would have come out and said that government is too large for the current economic environment and therefore it needs to make cuts that are commensurate with said level of economic activity. Then, when the economy turned around, you keep those cuts in place instead of spending simply because the money is there. Of course, that’s just for starters. I certainly would not come out and say that tax cuts are in jeopardy especially after all the proclamations during good times that tax cuts are good for stimulating growth.

By Rick

August 13, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

I love this country but I loathe the government. I have finally reached the point where I have ZERO confidence in the government. It does not matter if it is at the county,state or federal level. I am convinced that they are completely incapable of acting in the best interest of the voting public. It is party politics with every single issue. I have lost the trust and hope for the future of this country. I can not see how it will ever be close to what was intended by the founding fathers of this Republic. Every day it is another scandal, another affair, another arrest, another vote straight down party lines. I am hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. Stocking up on water, food medicine and ammo, no I am not a survivalist nut case, I just realize that I and I alone am responsible for the safety and welfare of of my family. If a natural disaster hit me am I supposed to look at my children and say ” just wait for FEMA”. I made em, I’ll raise em. Whew!! got going and couldn’t stop.

By Bud Wiser

August 13, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Got a realistic email today dealing with the problems with Russia invading Georgia, and thought I might share it:

“Letter #1: From Sen. Barack Obama: Dear (Former) President Putin:

I’m sorry to be writing this e-mail instead of meeting you in person, preferably in the Oval Office, where I belong. Soon, soon.

Nevertheless, and notwithstanding the foregoing, I felt it imperative that I express my deep concern about Russia’s invasion of the tiny, democratically elected sovereign nation of Georgia. It would appear that you are not familiar with my platform for change and hope. War does not fit into this template and I am, quite frankly, at a loss for words to express my deep, deep distress.

As the chosen leader of a new generation of Americans who speak a global language of peace, hope, harmony and change, this is simply unacceptable. Quite frankly, your actions pose potentially severe, long-term consequences. I’m not sure what those might be, but they won’t be nice or fun.

Please picture me looking very serious when I say that I respectfully request you to calm down. Life is but a flicker in time and we’re but actors strutting and fretting. That is to say, we’re all on this planetary journey together and our karma is interrelated and interdependent. Thus, it would seem that our differences are best resolved through words, not bombs.

It is said that war is a failure of diplomacy. I would submit that it is also counterintuitive. If my Kenyan father and my Kansan mother and my multinational upbringing taught me anything, it is that we are all one. That said, I am The One the world has been waiting for — and you are, quite frankly, blocking my chi.

As soon as possible, I’d like to sit down and begin talking about how we can resolve these and other differences that threaten peace-loving people, which I’m sure includes you. I haven’t looked into your eyes and would never presume to know your soul, but I do know that we share a common humanity and that we can all just get along.

Yours in global harmony, Acting President Barack Obama

Letter #2: From Sen. John McCain: Hey, Putin,

Don’t make me come over there.

McCain”

By Ich bin ein Beginner

August 13, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Hearing Jay Bookman (or any Democrat for that matter) talk about economics is akin to fingers on the blackboard. They possess no credentials, no understanding, and no credibility on the subject.

Just review EGObama’s answer [in the Democrat presidential debate] to ABC’s Charlie Gibson about taxes. His community organizer background was really on display that evening.

By Bud Wiser

August 13, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Hearing Jay Bookman or any other Democrat talk about economics is also akin to trying to fathom where Barak Hussein Obama’s 57 states really are…..

It’s like trying to listen in person to any Democrat talk about anything, all the while trying to figure out the best way to tactfully wipe off the foam and spittle from your face….

It’s like trying to listen to the Chinese announcers over the loudspeakers at the Olympics, and believe that all those Chinese girls competing in gymnastics really are 16 years old….

It’s like trying to convince yourself that after we get national health care, you won’t be seeing all these ads on tv mimicking the midday lawyers ads…

It’s like trying to believe that Hussein Obama sat in a pew at Jeremiah Wright’s church for over twenty years, and never once heard him spew on about the evil racist America white man…..

It’s like trying to believe that all of the lockstep blacks are voting for Hussein Obama, but not because of his skin tone……

It’s like trying to believe that liberals really do have a brain, not just a twisted sense on the concept of reality…..(and this one is really hard to do)

By RW-(the original)

August 13, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Bud Wiser,

You’re underestimating the number of states that The Dunce thinks there are. when he said he had been to 57 he said he still had one to go and that his staff had kept him from going to Alaska and Hawaii, so he’s up to 60 states. However when he said that he was also telling us that Michigan and Florida votes shouldn’t count and that he hadn’t campaigned there. My read on that is that The Dunce thinks there are 62 states.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 13, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

In a new report out Thursday, the U.S. Census Bureau projects the nation will become much more diverse by midcentury, with minorities forecast to become the majority population by 2042, experts said.

You can call us Amexico.

Let’s elect some liberal freak and we’ll make our demise happen in O 32.

~~~~~

Nice tribute to Skip Caray over at the Ted, the pictures of his old man even got the Cubbies involved.

It’s a drive! Waaaay Baaack!

By RW-(the original)

August 13, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

AJC/DNC-M,

Skip was still pretty much the same when he passed, but they showed lots of Harry replays too. Nobody much cared since the Cubs were so bad, but Harry’s…

It might be

It could be

It is

a home run

….stayed with him, but after his stroke it didn’t end until two or three more batters had come to the plate. In that way Skip was blessed and we were all blessed by these guys at the height of their talents.

By Midori

August 13, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

I was about to log off, and something told me to stop by this blog first.

I see the usual gaggle of losers twisting and contorting themselves and their puzzling logic trying to morph an intelligent, self made gentleman into some sort of idiot.

Yet these same people tried to prop up the biggest idiot on the planet who had the gall to squat in our White House for the past 7 plus years in their feeble effort to try to prop the moron up as something resembling a “leader”.

Neither Tammy Faye Baker nor Katherine Harris possessed enough lipstick to slather on that pig to make him resemble anything but.

Do you realize just how foolish and delusional you look?

By Hillbilly Deluxe

August 13, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

One thing the Fair Tax would do is drive far more purchases off the books in order to avoid paying taxes. I think the current Income Tax system is a disgrace but I don’t think the Fair Tax is the answer. I wouldn’t mind seeing the elimination of all deductions and credits from the Income Tax and adjusting the rates accordingly and see how that works.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 13, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

RW: One of the most prized seats in old Comiskey Park was underneath the broadcast booth because around the 4th or 5th inning, Harry would always knock over his Budweiser and it would rain down on the fans below.

We used to throw our full ones back up at him.

What a riot that was, when he would sing “Take me out to the ballpark” during the seventh inning stretch, he would be so blitzed that he would lean all out over the crowd spraying Bud down on everybody.

The crowd out there tonite was downright comatose compared to what it was back then, but it is still a blast to be at the old ball park.

Y’all need to lose the chop, it’s so, how do you say it, 1990’s.

By RW-(the original)

August 13, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

Parrot,

Go ahead and log off because your comment isn’t grounded in even the tiniest bit of reality.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 13, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

I r o Dim: You wear delusion well.

By VonSpyder

August 13, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

things to consider:

Illegals cant hide from the fairtax, they buy crap just like everyone else. anyone been to gwinnett lately? how about Miami? we even have illegal canadians in the country too. For once, these illegals would actually pay into the public services they take out from. and then some!

Boortz doesnt always claim to be right, and yes he does cut people off on his show, its his show he can do what he darned well pleases, but he also CONSISTENTLY reminds EVERYONE not to take his word on anything and do your own research and arrive at your own conclusions. So all of you people sitting their calling Boortz an ego maniac obviously have trouble paying attention, and thus are probably incapable of doing their own research ssince reading and listening require attention. unless your so egomaniacal the only thing you noticed was the fact I just insulted you.

By atlmom

August 14, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

If you ONLY say that prices rise by 30% when the Fairtax is enacted, then you are only telling (less than) half the story.

You will be able to take home 100% of your paycheck. For those of you who are bad at math - that’s ALL of your paycheck. No deductions for federal taxes, for social security for medicare for whatever else those in washington think up on any given day. You will take it all home. So prices ‘rise’? So who cares - you will be taking home more money, too.
(Which they won’t by the way - it’s just that you’ll be paying in a different way. Which leads to…) the prebate - everyone gets back taxes on ‘necessities.’ The Govt is already calculating a poverty level, so everyone would get a check based on being just above the poverty level.
AND prices would probably decrease, because all those accountants and lawyers and whatnot who work for all those companies (they would like to squeeze every penny they can - if they can pay someone so they can keep more of their money - they will, you and I don’t typically have that luxury) - will be gone. So those salaries won’t be paid - AND the employer part of social security. And their costs for payroll. And so on. So companies will be saving tons of money - so typically one company will start lowering prices, because they can, and others should follow.

While all this SHOULD happen, even if it doesn’t - well, we’d ALL be better off (oh, did I mention that now all those lobbyists making 6 and 7 figure salaries who work for those corporations won’t be there either?).

By Hillbilly Deluxe

August 14, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

Your employer pays your withholding tax to the IRS. With the Fair Tax..will he give it to you or keep it for himself? I’ve even heard Neal Boortz say that “you might have to change jobs to get the full effect of the Fair Tax”.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 14, 2008 6:44 AM | Link to this

Does it surprise anyone that when a couple of adults discuss drinking beer at the ballpark, that a diaper wearing yellow belly bigot like God’s Trash would think of urine?

I never even made the connection, but then again, I’m not a transvestite toy like she is.

Sicko.

By JAY BOOKMAN

August 14, 2008 7:09 AM | Link to this

That post has been pulled, Management, and Trash is banned for a week.

I’m about out of patience with that dude. He acts as low-rent as he claims everybody else is.

By Bud Wiser

August 14, 2008 7:10 AM | Link to this

Between GodHatesTrash and Midori, it is impossible to discern who is the bigger idiot, I suspect that they are one and the same, posting under different aliases

I used to have enough faith in the average American that we as a nation could not possibly breed such hideously unintelligent morons, but it appears that my belief was misplaced. Trash/Midori have fulfilled the definition of complete stupidity encased in semi-human form.

By Bud Wiser

August 14, 2008 7:16 AM | Link to this

Good going, Jay. Freedom of speech is one thing, but the-moron-known-as-Trash continually posts vulgarities that have gone unchecked. Perhaps you should check what was up while you were on vacation.

Hope you had a nice break; unfortunate for you that it had to end with a set-down with Boortz. Let us know how that one rolled out?

By Scooter

August 14, 2008 7:23 AM | Link to this

Well, as usual the critics fail to realize the FairTax will expand the tax base considerably (not everyone claims income, but everyone does consume), nor do they realize businesses inflate the price of their good or service to cover their tax liability.

Will it be perfect, no. Will the politicians try to write the law so it fails, probably. They like the secretiveness of ability to manipulate the current monstrosity.

But, how can any sane individual support consistently regulating and taxes American based businesses and then complain about outsourcing? Can’t have your cake and eat it to.

By hillbilly ragger

August 14, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

Fair Tax (and, frankly, Flat Tax) fans share one thing in common—they think the current tax structure is “too complicated” and that the answer is to make everything simple enough for everyone to understand.

I think that’s a fundamentally flawed position. I think those who look to simplify the process are either a) low-information types who are susceptible to simple solutions, or b) pols / pundit who pander to group a).

The “complexity” argument has grown increasingly irrelevant with the advent of simple-to-use tax prep software. There are thousands of pages of code? Big whoop, there’s a lot of code in every software app I use; I don’t need to understand every last thing in order to get to a feature that’s relevant to me.

I don’t find anything particularly immoral about one industry lobbying for some tax break. That’s how it has always been; that is how it would be (despite Boortz/Linder’s braying to the contrary) under their SooperDooper VAT,that’s how it would be if we were ever to adopt a so-called Flat Tax on income, too.

You all can argue otherwise until you’re blue in the face, but at the end of the day, I’ll be right and you all will still be chasing your tails.

Oh, and Bud, just to reply to you since you asked—no, it’s not “thievery”, it’s the cost of living in a civilized society. Grow up and deal with it already.

By AJC/DNC Management

August 14, 2008 7:41 AM | Link to this

By JAY BOOKMAN August 14, 2008 7:09 AM I�m about out of patience with that dude. He acts as low-rent as he claims everybody else is.

Thanks.

By Cherokee

August 14, 2008 7:41 AM | Link to this

Hey I’m all in favor of the fair tax. The government is going to send me a check every month??? Sweet… I can be a welfare queen! (Of course I’m a little confused - that used to be a liberal idea, now the conservatives are supporting it?)

And I’m already planning my trips to Mexico. I can buy products there and ship them back home to sell to my neighbors without the onerous 30% tax - I’ll be rich…. Good times all around.

By Confederate Tyrant

August 14, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this

For all those anti-FairTax comments, it’s very obvious that you haven’t read the book. You can keep reading how it’s really 30% tax, instead of 23% tax, but you’re reading bogus literature. The tax rate is 23 cents per 100 cents, not 23 cents per 77 cents (23/77). And if you’re unaware, the current tax system already has goods taxed at 15-27% tax depending on the good/service. But is that 15/100, 15/85, 27/100, or 27/73? Guess it is the same BS that everyone keeps spouting about the so called 30% sales tax. Either way, the FairTax would eliminate that, so then it’d only be 23%, plus you’d keep all the money you make (typically 25-30% is deducted from full time pay).

And with a tax on consumption (which is already done in several states in the U.S., as well as other countries) the illegal immigrants, drug dealers, self-employed workers that avoid April 15th, etc. will put money into our economy instead of making the rest of us tax payers pick up their slack.

Everyone gets a prebate each month, so you still get your taxes back. This does not burden any class of citizens more, as everyone has the ability to choose what they’re going to be taxed on.

It’s not perfect, but it’s a much better tax idea than our current tax.

So for all of you nutjobs that want change, well bring in the FairTax, it’s the only change that we can believe in.

By hillbilly ragger

August 14, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

Tyrant @ 7.43:

“It’s the only change we can believe in.”

See, if you were wondering why Jay and some of us other other rational folks, who see the “Fair Tax” for what it is, call you guys “cult members”?

It’s on account of statements like that.

By Taxpayer

August 14, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

Mr. Bookman,

Were your ratings down. Are you in need of more per-post income. That’s why you brought up this FairTax[tm] yet again, isn’t it. All these people still making the same insane claims that the method of taxation will alter human behavior. Further, even more people still claiming that all the businesses are being taxed or that the wealthy are being unfairly taxed. The government has already reported that two-thirds of US businesses do not pay taxes so how is changing the tax scheme going to get these businesses to start paying less than zero. Further, the government has already reported on the fact that many of the wealthy in this country use off-shore accounts to avoid paying taxes so how will a change in tax schemes change that. Then, there are others who claim that drug dealers and small business owners will be forced to pay this tax even though they don’t currently pay taxes as though these people were only smart enough to evade one system but could never ever come up with a way to evade another system. Riiiiiigggghhhttttttt.

But, what’s the most depressing aspect of all about this FairTax[tm] discussion. It’s being supported by Republicans as some panacea instead of the Republicans focusing on smaller government and eliminating waste in government — things that REALLY have a chance at reducing taxes. The message that this should be sending is that the Republican Party is not a supporter of small government or reduced government waste or reduced taxes — they’re liberals. Liberals that choose to spend our tax dollars on incentives for corn growers, sugar producers, oil companies, financial institutions, wars…oh yes, did I mention wars. And, when that’s not enough, they borrow in our names so they can give us prescription drug “benefits” to benefit the prescription drug makers and stimulus checks for us to pay down our increased property taxes or make a payment on a home loan or, better yet, buy that brand new flat screen TV with. All this and I haven’t even got started on the topic of the greatest financial scam of all times — a scam involving easy currency, derivatives, complicity, greed, and the securitization of everything from home mortgages to credit card debt to student loans to commercial properties, etc. And, we haven’t even said a word about the good stuff yet.

By Soothsayer

August 14, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

Well, here we go again with the FairyTaleTax. Since I make $200,000/yr I’m all for it because my taxes will go down considerably. The rest of you slobs will just have to get used to it. ExxonMobil’s taxes will disappear altogether because there is no corporation tax under the FairyTaleTax.

Here’s a math problem for you: If our federal budget is $3 trillion (that’s 3 with 12 zeros behind it) AND the tax rate is 30% AND there are 300,000,000 people in the US, how much would each and every single person in American have to spend each year for the FairyTaleTax to work? Hint: use an Excel spreadsheet.

Your tiiiiiime is up. The answer is $43,444.82 PER PERSON. I mean, get real!

By Ray

August 14, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

I wonder when all of you Fair Tax haters are going to come with a better plan. The one we have now is directly tied to politicians and politics which is killing this country, no matter which way you lean. The 43M people who pay no tax are not about to abandon the Demos and the corporations that pay no tax are not about to cash out the Repubs. It’s all about votes, pure and simple.
The FT at least gets all churches where preachers get a tax free Mercedes as a hiring perk (like my neighbor across the street), all of the tip supported people who support the hotel and food industry and about every segment of our society who now gets a free ride.
It shouldn’t take longer to fill out your tax return than selecting #1 at McDonalds but we have created an accountant and tax attorney base that sucks money out of the everyday taxpayer each April and a cadre of blood suckers that want a complicated tax code. If Congress wanted to pass a better and simpler system, they would do it. Votes, my good friends, votes….. they are running the system and will be the death of this country yet.

By N8

August 14, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

If you haven’t actually read the bill (I bet you haven’t), then shut up and do some research. Just because it’s easy to post a comment here doesn’t mean that you should. America’s problem is the uninformed spouting off at the mouth. And one other thing… if you don’t understand that the tax is NOT exclusive (on top of what you already pay)… then you just don’t get it.

By N8

August 14, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Soothsayer,

Add a couple of cells to your spreadsheet to include FairTax that will come from people visiting our country and spending money here. Oh, and don’t forget the illegal immigrants that will now pay taxes and the 200 billion in savings from having a smaller IRS.

For your equation… “56.7 million people visited the US in 2007”.

Another note since you are basing your assumption on an overall average:

You make 200K/year — do you spend less than 47K per year? I bet you spend a whole lot more than that. The truth of the matter is that you spend what you make. What is the combined household income of those 300,000,000 Americans? Let’s compare that to the 300 Trillion budget and then we’ll be talking apples to apples.

By Taxpayer

August 14, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

No you shut up.

No you shut up.

No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. How many N’s is that, eight? No, Seven. No, Eight. No, Eleven.

By Hillbilly Deluxe

August 14, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Given all the prebates and everything, won’t it take a bureaucracy at least the size of the IRS to administer the Fair Tax?

By martinchill

August 14, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

hi - former stone mtn resident, now in MARIN COUNTY CA.

(wipe yer chin, andy)

~~

my good friend in stone mtn sent me the FT book, and we’ve had a few back-n-forths since. i found the book to be overflowing with lustrous tales of joy, an unending string of liberating hope for the woeful taxpayer.

very little in the way of actual details, though.

my friend conceded that the major flaw to the proposal is the fact that the 16th amendment would not be addressed until AFTER passage of the ft bill.

phhhhhhht.

if you haven’t read the book - don’t bother. if you have, read it again and look for some pesky details. i’m all eyes.

the key to dealing with the tax problem, as others have mentioned, is by curtailing spending. end of story.

republicans are not fiscal conservatives.

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August 24, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

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By Mark

September 1, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Fairtax was always an absurdity —- the math was always off, it would always have to be 50-70% sales tax.

Fairtax frankly misled people - knowingly — by pretending to be able to get over 800 billion in revenue FROM the government: thats as crazy as anything the Mad Hatter ever said to Alice in Wonderland.

Fairtax has all but died off — there is virtually no activity going on, strange for a plan that has (supposedly) 1.5 million supporters, and 70 sponsors, and is so “well researched”.

Face it, Fairtax is a farce. It would only work if you cut spending by 50% — and if you did that, any system would work.

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