Jay Bookman

By Mike

July 17, 2008 6:43 AM | Link to this

“Gwinnett Republicans were asked whether “the Republican Party has moved too far to the political left,” and more than 57 percent said yes, the problem with the party is that it has gotten too liberal. That is not a widely shared assessment.”

How do you know, Jay? On what do you base your “insight”? The fact that you and the AJC don’t share that assessment.

Crawl out of your bubble. It is this myopic liberal mindeset that has alienated a large segment of the AJC’s audience and led to the layoffs of your co-workers.

How bout a column about how incompetant the AJC management is for destroying this local resource with its overt liberal partisanship?

Nah, you don’t have the intellectual honesty or courage to write about what a miserable job your bosses have done. So much for “speaking truth to power”, right Jay?

By AJC/DNC Management

July 17, 2008 7:00 AM | Link to this

Judging from today’s headlines, the only thing the Urinal “tightened” is the noose around their necks:

AJC will cut staff, tighten operations-AJC/DNC

If it gets the trap door to open on thee Doom and Gloom, them maybe even I will start talking down the economy.

~~~~~

Georgia dips into savings- $600 million short: Drop in tax collections hurts ‘08 budget, may do same in ‘09-Thee Doom and Gloom

Another idiotic end of the world article form the Urinal’s Paul Krugman clone, Michael E Kannel, a front page hit piece tailor made for consumption by dimwitocrats.

The rest of us know that is WHY you have savings, for “rainy days.”

Let’s compare; The Repugs at the state have to reach into the cookie jar while the dhimmikrats in Atlanta lay off police and firemen, leaving their citizenry to fend for themselves.

Is this really something you wanted to point out, Urinal?

~~~~~

Thee Doom and Gloom recycling bad news, I guess more bad news isn’t coming fast enough for them:

Worsening Afghan war kills 3 Georgians-Urinal/PMS Front Page

Buried in the story:

Phillips and Ayers were among nine soldiers killed after a group of insurgents engaged the 2nd Battalion in a three-hour battle.

That happened a week ago.

How sick is it to get a twofer propaganda headline out of an American soldier’s honorable death?

Does the AJC/DNC have no conscious?

Do you know the families will see this, bringing the grief back fresh and new, all for your wormy political opportunity?

This says a lot about liberals, believe me.

~~~~~

After 5 some years of this being Bushie’s Illegal War, finally it belongs to the whole country:

TIME FOR NEXT STEP IN IRAQ: United States looks past surge, studies more troop cuts-Urinal/DNC

~~~~~

There was yellowcake uranium in Iraq, just like Cheney said there was, you’d think the Urinal would be a little embarrased to bring this back up:

Bush invokes exec privilege in CIA case, House panel wants documents on how Plame’s ID was revealed-AJC/PMS

Fitzmas morning has long since past, the lumps of yellowcake have been unwrapped by thee dimwitocrats, but yet they still stay gathered at the Fitzmas tree, whining and moaning for their beloved Bushie Derangement Syndrome Grand Prize.

And they lived angrily ever after.

~~~~~

I’m amazed the Urinal admitted this:

Gulf’s ‘dead zone’ to be biggest ever- Hypoxia, low oxygen water that cannot support marine life, forms each summer when nutrients and nitrogen from fertilizer or urban runoff get into the Mississippi River. LSU scientist R. Eugene Turner said the record “dead zone” is largely due to nitrogen leaking into the river from a big increase in corn planting for ethanol.-Urinal/DNC

Remember when I told you about all the liberal disasters created when a Godless Heathen liberal tries to solve a problem that doesn’t even exist?

Add another to that list.

And to think, all we have to do is drill.

I pray for you America.

By Planner

July 17, 2008 7:22 AM | Link to this

Count me among those who don’t share the view that Republicans are becoming too liberal. Honestly, I’m having a difficult time figuring out the purpose of asking such a vague question about moving too far to the political left. Can anybody show me an example where the party has embraced liberal viewpoints on gay marriage, foreign policy, abortion rights, taxation or any other issue? Because I’m drawing a blank.

Here’s my inverse rewording which I would love for somebody to have placed on the Democratic ballot: Do you believe the Republican party has become too ideologically entrenched, inflexible and unwilling to work with others of opposing viewpoints? I bet that statement would receive darn close to 100% approval.

By AJC/DNC Management

July 17, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

Susan Estrich cackles the so very obvious:

So how can Newsweek have the race at a dead heat? How come, even in the polls where Obama is leading, his lead is in single digits? Is it that people still don’t know enough about him? No candidate in my lifetime has ever gotten better press coverage, more adoration from the media. Being attacked by Jesse Jackson is a gift of major proportions. Maybe it just hasn’t showed up yet in the numbers. Maybe race is a bigger factor than people want to admit. Maybe people just need to be convinced on the experience front. But whatever it is, Democrats should take note. It should be a Democratic year, but that is no guarantee that it will be one.

Can you say Dukakis?

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 8:06 AM | Link to this

Dead on, per usual, Jay.

And based on converstions with fellow Gwinnettians over the years, it doesn’t particularly surprise me to see the rather substantial change in attitudes since that 1990 vote.

This sparsely attended, probably slanted-conservative (you make a good case with that crazy “too far left?” question) showing barely managed to vote a majority “No” to MARTA, which means it’s very, very likely that the residents at large are more favorable.

But alas, we needed an outright win on this one to make a paradigm shift, and as a result, we’re going to have to wait even longer for the inevitable.

(Inevitable being, yeah, there will be rail service at least as far north as Buford one day, and hopefully a mega “Beltline” servicing much needed ‘burb-to-‘burb transit. But a lot of rednecks have to pass away, first.)

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

Ok, I was nice @ 8.06, now for some tough love.

For god’s sake, Mike, have a word with your programmer and put a character limit in the posts. I’m sick of reading the crap copy/pasted from the usual band of trolls, who are contributing absolutely nothing to the topics being debated here and couldn’t stay on-topic on a bet.

(yeah, I know it’s off-topic, but it p!sses me off to find a post of yours about a topic that’s near and dear to my heart that’s already littered with crap from the LuckoTrool.)

Mike @ 6.43, stop it. Just stop it. Stop pretending that the issues every g******* print media outlet is having today don’t exist; stop imagining that the reasons for the AJC’s recent production cutback and layoffs are because they are, as you absurdly assert, of a “myopic liberal mindeset.”

Or is that the reason that the NY Post can’t turn a profit? Or why the DC Times has never turned a profit? Are they, of a “myopic liberal mindeset” as well, Mike?

By ByteMan

July 17, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

And if you had asked those same people if spending $1 BILLION PER WEEK on the war in Iraq was worthwhile, they would also have said “yes”.

Spending $1 BILLION PER WEEK FOR FIVE YEARS on a war no one seems to want is ok, but spending a few billion on mass transit or universal health care is “too expensive” and not something the government should do.

I’d be funny if it wasn’t just insane. Had a President with a “D” instead of an “R” done this to the country, the same lemmings would have been out with pitchforks and cries of “impeach him!”.

By WFC

July 17, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

While many Gwinnett County residents still live in the 19th century, MARTA is partially to blame. People simply don’t believe that the MARTA leadership would address the real problems of Gwinnett.

For example, just look at the HORRIBLE traffic along McGinnis Ferry road. Thousands of people live in the cheaper Gwinnett homes and commute to the technology parks in North Fulton… Johns Creek and Windward, just to name two. Will MARTA build a line to address this problem? Not in the lifetimes of anyone living today. Why SHOULD Gwinnett residents support MARTA?

By Me Again

July 17, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

Why does this surprise anyone? A simple look at Gwinnett County’s changing demographics over the last 20 years will tell you the same thing that a silly straw poll will. I can’t believe they spent money on a poll to learn that. I would bet that southern Hall, Jackson and Forsyth counties have gotten progressively more conservative during the same time period. Nothing earth shattering here.

By Mrs. Godzilla

July 17, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

When I moved to Gwinnett 15 years ago I was told in no uncertain and occasionally very blunt terms by many, many people that Marta was not welcome in Gwinnett because it would bring blacks out of the city and into the burbs.

“Nice”, white, christian people told me that.

They were full of it then they are full of it now.

I grew up in a city with a great rapid transit system….from about 10 years old on, as long as we went in groups during the day we took buses and el trains all over Chicago.

It opened up new worlds to us as youngsters. Days spent at the Art Institute or the Field Museum. Afternoons at Wrigley or Comisky. Mornings at North Avenue beach.

We could go anyplace - cheap. And we did.

We didn’t get cars at 16, but we could take the bus to concerts in Grant Park.

Limiting our transportation limits our kids.

By Joey

July 17, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

Only about 10% of Gwinnett’s workers commute into the City. MARTA takes people into the City.

MARTA has made miminum effort (which failed) to hook up employment centers like Emory and zero effort to hook up that major destination, Turner Field.

Cobb and Clayton have shown more reticence to be part of MARTA than has Gwinnett.

Let’s think a minute: *A trip on MARTA, not just the train ride but the total time of the trip, takes 3 to 5 times as long as driving. *Parking at a MARTA station is a pain, but there are plenty of parking places at every destination in town. *Convenience and time savings are worth much more than $4/gallon gas.

One more thing. Today there are more parking spaces in town than there are jobs and residents. If Atlanta, Fulton and DeKalb counties really want more ridership for MARTA, all they have to do is eliminate half of the parking spaces.

By AJC/DNC Management

July 17, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

Normally, Anchorage has 14 or 15 days in the summer that reach the 70-degree mark, Albanese said.

This year, there have been two. And the city didn’t see 70 at all until July 2. That threshold typically comes in early to mid-June, according to weather records.

So far this month, the daily high temperature has fallen below the average high for the date more than half the time. In fact, the temperature has missed the mark every day for the past week.

And in June, temperatures fell below the average high on 24 of 30 days.

Great, so “global warming” is a hoax and now we can drill and get our lives back in order, right?

Not so quick:

CONSEQUENCES

Plants are blooming later and slower because of the low temperatures, said Barbara Miller, senior horticulturist at the Alaska Botanical Garden.

“Some of the later-blooming plants are probably going to have problems,” she said. “They’re going to run out of summer and their buds will probably be frozen.”

There is a deep seated sickness inbred into every pinko liberal that, to every silver lining, there is a cloud.

These people are basically negative, whining little cry babies, tossing their cereal over the side of their high chair, filling their diapers and then wailing until mommy makes it all better.

Get a grip, you hysterical dimwits.

By AJC/DNC Management

July 17, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

Yeah, liberals never whine:

By hillbilly ragger July 17, 2008 8:16 AM Ok, I was nice @ 8.06, now for some tough love. For god’s sake, Mike, have a word with your programmer and put a character limit in the posts.

Who’s “Mike?”

By Road Scholar

July 17, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

Joey, and the rest of the Repubs responding: Phil Gramm was correct…you are a bunch of whiners. As for crime, Gwinnett already has theirs and I don’t want them coming to Dekalb along with their whiney a* kids. Let them sit on I 85 and stew.

The above is just how you sound. Why not have the option of using MARTA, which may take 10-15% of the traffic off I 85 so the rest of you can run 80 MPH and waste gas. While a transit network is need to link the job and activity centers, a line from Gwinnett and Hall Counties would provide cost effective oppertunities to see that you can do other things while being transported….like reading a book.

By Planner

July 17, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

Joey, even just 10% equates to tens of thousands of people traveling down I-85 during the morning rush hour. The benefits to the other 90% of Gwinnett residents with more dispersed travel patterns created by shifting those trips to rail would be enormous. Even if only a quarter of that 10% were on MARTA, the remaining 97.5% would benefit. No transit service is EVER going to work for 100% of the people, but if a single line can immediately take 10% of traffic off a county’s road system, we’d be crazy not to pursue that option.

And you’re right about eliminating parking spaces generating more ridership for MARTA. Parking is far too abundant and cheap within the city to entice people out of their cars.

By atlmom

July 17, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

This is absurd. The leadership in Gwinnett should lead. The only logical solution to the issues facing traffic is to have some sort of mass transit system. If they start NOW they might have ONE station in five years. Which is way too late as they should have had something 10 years ago.

The whole crime argument is ridiculous. In any event, there’s a reason our forefathers didn’t want a democracy (we are a republic). People always want what is not good for them. True leaders will do the right thing, what is good for society - not just listen to the polls. Not just do whatever they can to get elected. But I digress.

I don’t understand why anyone would live in Gwinnett and subject themselves to that horrific traffic. I live in the city and hate driving. Unfortunately, because of the idiocy of the south, I have to have a car. Although I do have options of walking, and minimal mass transit options, mostly I’m in my car.

If Atlanta and the surrounding regions can’t do better getting people around, the growth that has been seen will stop. Other small cities (Charlotte, Denver, Seattle) are addressing their problems with real solutions. Unfortunately, in Atlanta, we have to build way too much consensus. Look at the beltline - just build something, guys. Yes, it’s nice when people are involved, but seriously, something could have been started already, and here we are, still 20 years away from anything.

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

WFC @ 8.18, fair points all, but

a) it has to start somewhere, and a rail station in the south end of Gwinnett is a start

b) obviously, we need our own “beltline”, ie. some east-west burb-to-burb conveyance. I know the McGinness Ferry stretch of which you speak all to well.

Bus service within Gwinnett was originally seen as kind of a joke, but obviously that needs to be beefed up with more reliable runs along well-travelled roads. (Why on earth is there no line running along GA st. 20 from downtown L’ville to the intersection with 400? Or up and down the length of P’Tree Industrial Boulevard? Crazy.)

By Planner

July 17, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

Or think about it this way: If somebody were to propose a new roadway that would magically take 10% of traffic off every single other road in the county, wouldn’t you be sending angry emails to your elected officials demanding that it be built immediately? Why not the same level of outrage that a rail line which can accomplish that exact goal (with minimal disruption to existing residences and businesses, by the way) isn’t even on the drawing boards yet?

By Goldie

July 17, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

Good morning Mike @ 6:43 — as usual, you’re up early to start your uneducated whining and blaming. Care to post a link showing your proof that the AJC is in trouble because of its “myopic liberal mindeset” (sic), or do you suppose that this is just another example of you projecting your whining “mindeset” onto this AJC blog (which you are supposed to hate so bad and yet you comment here day after day)?

Mike, so much hatred and so litte time to expend it constructively?

By GodHatesTrash

July 17, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett GOPers are True Believers, Jay. They’ll go down with the GOP ship - they’ll keep buying the Hummers on credit, keep their 3 hour commutes, keep watering their lawns, and keep “those people” out of their county as best they can.

Reality and basic human decency are Lost Causes regarding those morons. They’ll whine whine whine loud and long, and it’ll get much much worse before it gets better.

By dawggirl

July 17, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

I’m a life long Gwinnettian who is adamantly opposed to MARTA. Certainly crime is an issue. I find it hilarious when Jay says criminals don’t ride MARTA to commit a crime. Have you been on MARTA lately? I had the misfortune of being on a train a couple of months ago and half the people on it looked like poster boys for Thug Life. My biggest issue with not wanting MARTA has to do with money. Why should Gwinnett citizens get dragged into the money pit that is the management of MARTA? We are already helping to pay for it with our federal tax dollars, but I don’t want to increase the burden by having MARTA in the county. It is classic liberal garbage: let the majority of the people pay for a service a minority of the people will use. MARTA is mismanaged and money is wasted, but the answer is to extend to another county to drag those taxpayers into the fray.

By MP

July 17, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett is minor league and so is MARTA. Neither can hit the curveball.

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

Jay, obviously I was referring to you up at 8.16; might’ve been that I was thinking of the now-homeless Luckotrool, who used to clog up Mike’s comments line.

Seriously, though, most of us would like to discuss the topic at hand. And to that end, I’ll add something I always mention to motorists who gripe about being “stuck behind” a bus.

Assuming that a successful bus line generally attracts a coupla-dozen riders at least at any given time, would you rather be behind a single bus, or a coupla-dozen cars? (Piloted by people who, presumably, would rather NOT be driving?)

By ByteMan

July 17, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

Poor @dawggirl: still thinks that “crime” equates to “people who don’t look like me”.

Don’t be a waste of skin, @dawggirl, go volunteer at an in-town shelter and see how much like you “those people” are. Or are you too afraid?

By Analchord

July 17, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

In the late seventies and early eighties, MARTA was on everyone’s tongue. Nobody liked the idea of “Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta”. The resistance was racial then, and in Gwinnett today, racism is the motivation for the S-L-O-W-S.

People still react to change from their perspective of a black-free entitlement. It’s a default emotion. It’s the automatic knee-jerk from anyone who grew up in this country on American TV, with white friends, and a reasonable expectation of not seeing any blacks for extended periods of time especially at home on weekends, the baby boomer shangri la of cartoons and no school for two whole days, (and no blacks either).

We are racists. That’s why Justice can only be achieved with a black president now. Young black and white minds are watching, and this is a turning point.

Look at the campaign. It’s not issues we debate, but rather ad hoc “what if” fantasy spins about the liabilities we would incur with a Islamist terrorist or a brainwashed POW. These idiotic notions get all the air time and all the blogwash.

I wonder if I got Mrs. McCain juiced up enough on Rush Limbaugh RX that I might get a lap dance or something. I ponder whether the fist bump was a freudian slip, the first real evidence that Obama is really a smoothly shaved Osama. Like the purloined letter, Osama cant be found because he’s right in front of us, out in the open. We cant see the terrorist through the sleaze.

We dont deserve a serious man or a good man as our president. We deserve a cartoon. Is Jessica Rabbit available for VP?

By TW

July 17, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

There is no greater proof that the GOP is racing to the left than their desire to socialize the oil profits from the proposed offshore drilling.

By Citizen of the World

July 17, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

When I saw that Gwinnett County had voted down MARTA again, I just had to laugh. Happy motoring!

By Marie

July 17, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Jay,

Why does everything with Republicans (or just Georgians in general) have to be about race with you? Republicans in Gwinnett voted NO for MARTA it’s partly due to them being racist to you. If Georgia does not vote for Vernon Jones or Barak Obama — it’s a matter of race.

Gee whiz I can think of plenty of reasons a conservative minded individual would vote against MARTA and it has nothing to do with issues of crime and not wanting the rif raf coming to their community. You pick 2-3 quotes from individuals whose race or political affiliation you have no clue about and yet impose their views upon all Republicans (or whites) in Gwinnett.

Maybe folks don’t want MARTA in Gwinnett because it has long shown itself to be a dysfunctunal, mismanaged bureaucracy. Maybe it’s because MARTA has a problem delivering goods and services to the public within the areas it currently services. For example, folks in Dekalb have longed complained about the lunacy of not putting a rail line along the 1-20 East corridor (where a great majority of residents live) and all of the rail lines in Dekalk are off 1-285.

Maybe they do not want their tax dollars going to support this type of incompetence. Maybe they would prefer a rail system that is privately managed, or one that is truely owned by the public, or a hybrid of the two.

I think most reasonable people can understand that we need other solutions for transportation with the continuous increase in the price of gas, however, this “crisis” does not mean that some of us will be willing to deliver our sense and dollars over to the government for them to mismanage and bungle. We’ve had enough of that.

If Gwinnett feels their citizens want and/or need more public transportation; then listen to THEM and see what creative ideas and/or solutions they can come up with instead of trying to push something down folks throats.

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

dawgirl @ 8.57, you’ve nicely summed up everything that’s indefensible about the anti-MARTA folks.

1) You just know that it brings crime. Why, you rode it once and you saw what looked like criminals riding it!

2) it’s “subsidized,” which is a Bad Thing… when it’s mass transit. (But it’s ok when we’re subsidizing personal car ownership by, oh, fighting an Oil War, right?)

3) the MARTA management isn’t perfect… which means it can’t possibly be improved!

And for good measure, you decide to turn this into a left-right argument, which is kind of missing the point altogether.

This all you got?

By @@

July 17, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

Now there you go Jay, acting so typically liberal…

The refrain from opponents was distressingly familiar.

Did you ever stop to think that there are those of us who are willing to endure the traffic so that we can live in a somewhat rural setting.

This is @@, signing off from Clayton County where the C-Tran runs and very few ride it

but I pay…..yes I do……I pay.

By Robbie

July 17, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

I am not a liberal by any stretch, but I have to say that Jay, you are always dead on with tranportation issues. How we have managed to politicize something that I see as simply pragmatic is beyond me. ALL the evidence refutes the tired old crime argument, including the fact that north Fulton has higher property values and lower crime than either south Cobb or south Gwinnett. That simple fact seems to escape the MARTA opponents. The backward mentality is depressing.

By ByteMan

July 17, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

@Marie, see @dawggirl’s opinion above and you’ll understand why reasonable people think it might just might have something to do with latent racism.

As for MARTA being disfunctional: no doubt. By can you explain why Gwinnett County has a seat on the MARTA board if it’s so dysfunctional?

By Mrs. Godzilla

July 17, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

Dawg Girl posts:

*I had the misfortune of being on a train a couple of months ago and half the people on it looked like poster boys for Thug Life. *

Blessedly looks don’t kill or commit crimes.

I wonder if those thug looking young men scared you as they looked at you and thought, “Looks like a repressed, frightened, middle class white chick”.

Dawggirl, you made your point of veiw perfectly clear.

By J

July 17, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Considering the high number of hispanics and asians, I’d say that Gwinnett is already pretty integrated. Btw, I live in Dunwoody, near Perimeter mall, and crime is nearly non-existent. You know, Maine and South Dakota have very small minority populations…maybe that’s an option?

By Joey

July 17, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

To Road Scholar; Joey did not mention crime. Nor does he think crime is an issue with MARTA.

To Planner: 10% of workers is not 10% of population, hence it is not “tens of thousands of people on I-85 inside the perimeter.” To get a feel of how many commuters do not go into town, drive down I-85 from Gwinnett Place to, say, North Druid Hills. Notice that 90% of the cars exit at I-285.

A big problem is: MARTA does not want to serve Clayton, Cobb and Gwinnett. MARTA wants the dollars from a 1% sales tax from Clayton, Cobb and Gwinnett.

By Jeffrey Stone

July 17, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Why would Gwinnett County want to bring in MARTA?

M -Manslaughter A -Assault R -Rape T -Theft A - Armed robbery

I heard when a new Marta Station was built next to Perimeter Mall shoplifting, car break-ins and robbery immediately jumped. The thieves ride MARTA to the suburbs, commit their crimes then hop back on the train and ride back into Atlanta. Numbers don’t lie.

By Copyleft

July 17, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

It is classic liberal garbage: let the majority of the people pay for a service a minority of the people will use.

You mean, like the fire department? Police? Courts?

Bring on more of that “classic liberal garbage,” please. We need MORE of it, not less.

By @@

July 17, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Oh, and Jay?

I wanted to give you the opportunity to, again, review my post from last night (the one you scrubbed) and tell me why you found it offensive.

By @@ July 16, 2008 9:40 PM I Link to this

Grrrrreat! Now Midori is gonna think that Bud and I are sharing a brew.

Midori, that was not me at 9:36…..

although I agree with him. You probably are.

Zzzzzzzzzzzztttttt #:-O

~~~~~~~~~“~~~~~~~~~

Not a big deal Jay. Just wundrin’ is all.

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Jeffrey @ 9.17, you say “I heard when a new Marta Station was built next to Perimeter Mall shoplifting, car break-ins and robbery immediately jumped.”

Really? Prove it. And while you’re at it, prove that any “jumps” weren’t what you’d get with ANY infusion of additional people due to business/retail expansion.

Run along and get back to us when you have something to contribute besides made-up cra… er, I mean, hearsay evidence.

By Get Real

July 17, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett’s attitude towards mass transit: A** backwards.

• No more complaining about the long commute up and down 85 everyday. Don’t say anything else about how traffic congestion is affecting your quality of life. Gwinnett isn’t rural anymore, its one of the largest counties in the state, has the biggest populations of students. The MINORITY of you just want to keep ‘those people’ out, but don’t realize ‘those people’ just about outnumber you now. Marta brings crime, prove it! You don’t want your taxes to pay for something you won’t use? What other services are you taxed for that you don’t use? Have you ever taken Marta to a sporting event or concert? It’s $.01, don’t be so cheap.

Basically any excuse will do to keep your ‘Christian’ way of life. Keep ‘those’ people out. I hope Marta eventually charges ‘you people’ more, everytime you use it. How can that be done you say? The farther out you live, the more you pay. Bring ID you backwards thinking people.

By Charles Summerour

July 17, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Your comments on Gwinnett’s attitude toward Marta are exactly the reason that I don’t support Marta as the solution. I am a life long resident but also have seen the need for some type of regional mass transit. Many of our residents do see the need, but have also seen how Marta , the city of Atlanta, Fulton County, etc. manage money and business and reject the idea that a system operated like Marta is the answer. If we are going to contribute, we should be able to have more control—not just a board rep but a way to be sure that any funds contributed from our area are spent wisely and in OUR best interest. Marta was not the answer when it was conceived and is not the answer for Gwinnett now.

By WillM

July 17, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Terrific post, Jay.

Actually, at first glance I’m tempted to say the reason there wasn’t a higher percentage of Gwinnett Republicans voting against MARTA is quite simply is the greater percentage of transplants to the area from outside the South, who though they may trend Republican out of a kind of pocketbook libertarianism, otherwise have nothing in common with the fire-eating sentiments such as the ones that dominate this forum. But that may not be so, since other questions —such as the one about the part moving too far left — indicate that this was still the dead-ender bunch that’s so typical of Republicans here in the region who are not only ready to fall on their sword, but take great pride in it.

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Robbie @ 9.10, thanks. I just want to add that the “property values” argument has to be the flat-out craziest one of all. I know that if a MARTA station were to go up within a convenient drive (or, better yet, bus ride) of my own home, my property values would skyrocket. It’d be the best thing to happen to our neighborhood, and most anyone else’s.

I’ve friends who have owned a home in suburban MD, in an area that fought (ages ago) the DC Metro’s expansion into what was then a not terribly densely populated area.

of course, since the station went up, property values exploded, and proximity to Metro is a huge factor in home values there today.

I’m sure there are tons of similar examples across the US.

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

There are a few issues I see as key to our continued national economic success and better mass and public transportation is one of them.

I think it is pretty obvious to most that the price of gas is not going back down, and more and more will see that the only way to keep our economy going is to provide better ways or other ways of transporting materials and people.

Eventually, I would like to see federal mandates forced upon the states to improve or create better public and mass transit systems or else lose federal money.

I know, I know, that statement will get some people going beserk, but sometimes leaders have to lead, especially when the obvious way of doing things is detremental to our economic viability.

By zeke

July 17, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

Way to go Jay, another purely l;iberal socialist view of the situation! So Gwinnett has it’s own problems, so what? Those problems have come about and increased because of what you liberals call “diversity”, a useless pawn for liberals! So put the trains there and see the drastic increase in crime from shop lifting, assault, rape, murder and others! When I lived in Atlanta several years ago, occasionally I would ride the train for very specific events! Every time as we passed Lennox, hoards of people would get on that you could tell from their appearance, dress and actions, were not at the malls to shop! And, the train gave them rapid access, very little chance of police presence and an unlimited amount of victims! You want that in Atlanta, fine, but, keep it out of Cobb, Gwinnett, Forsyth and other areas!

By Analchord

July 17, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

In the late seventies and early eighties, MARTA was on everyone’s tongue. Nobody liked the idea of “Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta”. The resistance was racial then, and in Gwinnett today, racism is the motivation for the S-L-O-W-S.

People still react to change from their perspective of a black-free entitlement. It’s a default emotion. It’s the automatic knee-jerk from anyone who grew up in this country on American TV, with white friends, and a reasonable expectation of not seeing any blacks for extended periods of time especially at home on weekends, the baby boomer shangri la of cartoons and no school for two whole days, (and no blacks either).

We are racists. That’s why Justice can only be achieved with a black president now. Young black and white minds are watching, and this is a turning point.

Look at the campaign. It’s not issues we debate, but rather ad hoc “what if” fantasy spins about the liabilities we would incur with a Islamist terrorist or a brainwashed POW. These idiotic notions get all the air time and all the blogwash.

I wonder if I got Mrs. McCain juiced up enough on Rush Limbaugh RX that I might get a lap dance or something. I ponder whether the fist bump was a freudian slip, the first real evidence that Obama is really a smoothly shaved Osama. Like the purloined letter, Osama cant be found because he’s right in front of us, out in the open. We cant see the terrorist through the sleaze.

We dont deserve a serious man or a good man as our president. We deserve a cartoon. Is Jessica Rabbit available for VP?

By Me Again

July 17, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Get Real- sounds like you are one of “those people” we are trying to keep out. Over the top wacko lefty who believes that whatever is best for a few (or you) must be universally adopted and paid for by all. I know that at this point you go into pushy liberal sales man mode and proceed to tell me why Marta is the solution to all of Gwinnett’s problems and how I am a backwards thinking idiot or neo con for not agreeing with you. Marta does not have Gwinnett’s best interest in mind at all, this is a money grab and nothing more.

By ByteMan

July 17, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

@Charles: so you think that the board is dominated by Dekalb, Fulton, and Atlanta now and not Gwinnett… why? You think it might have to do with which counties directly contribute tax dollars to it? You think that maybe if Gwinnett contributed tax dollars, they would get more seats at the table and other counties and government bodies would get fewer?

Also: your Marta was not the answer when it was conceived is laughable. When MARTA was conceived over 30 years ago, Dunwoody was mostly a farm. Gwinnett was a backwater county. The times they are a-changin’…

By NRB

July 17, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Yeah it’ll cost ya an extra one cent tax!

And next year another cent….

year after that oops…we were wrong on how much it costs, that’ll be another 5 cents..

and an extra five cents every year after that…

Yes folks, like all government programs, the expense of this crap will just increase. The mere one cent is just an easy lure. Dont fall for it.

By Dennis

July 17, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

It is my understanding that Atlanta will not give the Beltway project to MARTA, either to construct or to operate.

Is this true?

By GodHatesTrash

July 17, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

I think I have a solution that might work for Gwinnett GOPers - perhaps white only buses/trains, or have the blacks and Mexicans sit in a different part of the bus? They could allow the elderly colored on the white only buses if they have government issued picture ID.

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Wait a minute, wait a minute. That last line of my last post should read:

“sometimes leaders have to lead, especially when it’s obvious a continuation of the same system is detremental to our economic viability”

There, that’s better. I hate it when I re-read my posts. Not that it really matters or anything.

Midori,

How was the shrimp grits? My favorite!!!!

By Dusty

July 17, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

Maybe we should ask more questions.

Gwinnett has its own bus system. How many people are using that? It connects with MARTA.

What are the crime statistics for the city of Atlanta and what are the crime statistics of Gwinnett County?

Are the complaints about MARTA valid or is it really run by incompetents?

Has Gwinnett County stopped ‘growing’ because it does not have MARTA?

Does Atlanta WANT Gwinnett riders to congregate there? Without Gwinnett MARTA will Atlanta become another NYC with no auto parking space??

Should Gwinnett County residents decide on their own issues or should government decide for them?

By LH

July 17, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Like a previous poster mentioned, Chicago would be a great example for Metro Atlanta to examine. I spent 4 months working there one summer and never had to use a car. This included trips to/from the airport at normal rush hour times. The buses I took into the city were also filled with professionals.

Anyone should just look at I-85 S in the morning, and North in the afternoon and know that Gwinnett is doomed if they do not address the transit issue. I work at Jimmy Carter/I-85 and I am fortunate to be driving opposite traffic. Though the Jimmy Carter interchange itself has already exceeded it’s limits of traffic. I avoid it as much as possible.

One real problem here is that the State government ignores the issue of Metro traffic. It really should be working hard to get a real plan for all of Atlanta. Lack of transit really is going to be the nail in the coffin for what should be a thriving city.

(And as a final note, how many code orange days have we had this summer already? I think I had better air quality when I lived in Southern California.)

By Me Again

July 17, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Bosch - you still got it wrong it should be “detrimental”. Sorry to have to point that out. Not my only problem with your post by the way.

By T

July 17, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

By Jeffrey Stone

Please cite your source.

If you are racist and you know it clap your hands. If you are racist and you know it clap your hands. Your racist and you know it. Your posts really show it. If your racist and you know it clap your hands.

You know what stops loitering and crimes in parking lots? Security.

By TIMEFORCHANGE

July 17, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Marta in Gwinnett County is a joke. We have Gwinnett Transportation and all I see is empty busses running. Why, because its not convient. It takes forever to get anywhere and its not practical. In order for me to get to work taking Gwinnett transit I have to drive to Indian Trail and since I just work 5 miles from there why bother.

If things that the government got involved in worked that would be one thing, but you take the government and get them involved in anything and you can expect a failure. Thats why our country is the way it is. Its all political and does nothing for society as a whole.

If they want to help society then the Democrates need to get off their butts and vote for drilling now instead of waiting for 10 more years when half of America will be out of work for failure to pay for the gas to get there. They need to vote for nucular power plants and windmill generators that either run on water or wind. They need to mandate higher MPG on auto makers. They need to quit bailing out their own programs (Fannie Mae) that are so full of corruption it costs tax payers trillions of dollars.

On the otherhand, Americans need to stop thinking that the Government owes them something. I as a taxpayer owe you nothing. I work for my pay and you should too. Stop calling on the government to bail you out everytime something bad happens. Get insurance instead. Thats what its there for. Oh and if you make 15 per hour and your spouce makes 15 per hour you cant afford that 400K house no matter what the loan is. Live within your means and you would not have lost your home. Sound mean, maybe, but I am sick of people trying to be something they are not and they crying for govermnent help when it all goes wrong. Buy a 100K home like I have and you wont have those problems.

By Shane

July 17, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

I clicked on the Thinking Right column from the home page and it took me here, to Jay Bookman’s column instead.

It would appear that the 200 person layoff the AJC just did included their webmaster.

Oops. Oh well. I kinda hate reading anything that claims to be “Right”, coming from the right, or “Right-minded” at this point. If anyone tells you they are for the Reich, er, I mean the Right, then it’s a safe bet they are a complete idiot. The Left isn’t much better, but it’s a far cry from the simpleton douchebags on the Reich, er, uh, I mean Right.

By MikeB

July 17, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Dawgirl…..You hit the nail squarely on the head “Why should Gwinnett citizens get dragged into the money pit that is the management of MARTA? We are already helping to pay for it with our federal tax dollars, but I don’t want to increase the burden by having MARTA in the county. It is classic liberal garbage: let the majority of the people pay for a service a minority of the people will use. MARTA is mismanaged and money is wasted, but the answer is to extend to another county to drag those taxpayers into the fray.

MARTA is the Grady Hospital of Mass Transit. Dawgirl and I say again,let the majority of the people pay for a service a minority of the people will use? Not me. I work to hard for my money. I wish some of these bleeding heart liberals would encourage the slackers they want to provide services for, to do the same.

By Me Again

July 17, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

@ 9:48 “T” obviously stands for typical. If someone is against something that a minority is for, then they absolutely, positively must be a racist. Not even a bigot or prejudice, but a racist. No worries about facts, true concerns to be discussed, or cost…Just a racist. Anybody else tired of that?

By It's Still There

July 17, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Whether they’ll admit it or not, racism is still an issue in Gwinnett, especially with Gwinnett Republicans.

By WillM

July 17, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Zeke writes:

“Way to go Jay, another purely l;iberal socialist view of the situation! So Gwinnett has it’s own problems, so what? Those problems have come about and increased because of what you liberals call “diversity”, a useless pawn for liberals!”

Don’t you love how these dead-enders think? To them, anyone challenging them by refusing to let them use the mantra of a free market ideology as a panacea to serve as cover for their racist views is branded a “liberal socialist”.

That’s just great. They’re historically illiterate in addition to close-minded and reactionary.

They start out by opposing urban services and institutions by claiming mismanagement and protection from societal ills like crime, etc., and then when their lily white suburbs become more urban anyway - a social transformation that’s rooted in free-market dynamics by the way - as Jay nicely pointed out, they then take that up as further reason to dig in continue acting like illiterate rubes who simply oppose modern society for sport.

So, anyway, Zeke, tell me this. Why aren’t you addressing the actual issue Jay raises, which is the fact that places such as Gwinnett becomes more urbanized, it has a greater, not a lesser, need for just the kind of services that you’re rejecting.

By Goldie

July 17, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

that you could tell from their appearance, dress and actions, were not at the malls to shop!

Zeke @ 9:37 — way to go, Idget… judging other people solely by the way they look. Shame, shame.

By Midori

July 17, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Bosch,

they were terrific!!!

I even gave a little bit to the cats :)

@@, every day you just reinforce my belief that you are one pitiful, sorely ignorant pup.

By Taxpayer

July 17, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett County. We used to live there. We thought, when we moved there, that it was a nice quiet, peaceful, crime-free county where everyone waved at everyone and looked out for everyone. It was a place where you could find everyone from civil-rights activists to white-robed gentlemen working together under the same roof — peacefully communicating with one another. We worked and we watched our quaint little county grow and grow and grow. Just when we thought the county couldn’t grow any more, it grew. In fact, it had gotten so bad right before we moved that we just quit driving hardly anywhere. After all, it beat trying to turn out of our subdivision onto the main highway. Fortunately, there was a grocery store within walking distance so we were able to get food to put on the table. Of course, that was back in 2001. I’m sure things have greatly improved since then.

By Corey

July 17, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Marie, you mentioned MARTA not running along I-20. Do you remember a few years back when MARTA wanted to run a spur down I-20 to Stone Crest. I believe Kirkwood residents(gentrified) killed that with their griping. Also Marie, the residents of Gwinnett could participate in the planning to decide where stations will be built and lines run. MARTA exists as it does today because back then as is now people in this region do a damn good job of complaining something out of existence or not allowing it to be built at all. MARTA chose to run their lines parallel to existing freight lines because of griping and the familiar “not in my back yard” refrain. I know MARTA is not for everyone, but honestly, I love my stress free commute on MARTA. It only takes me forty minutes each way to commute from Buckhead to Decatur to work. When I drove, it took thirty minutes. Only a ten minute difference for thirteen dollars a week and unlimited trips. That’s a bargain! Part of that commute is by bus to the Arts Center Station. For the people crying travel time on MARTA is twice as long. Where do you live?

By Jennifer

July 17, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

I am so glad you picked up this story. I have been following the “no MARTA debate” since the mid 90’s and am astonished at both the voters and the politicians.

I live in Gwinnett, am a Democrat, and stand in disbelief at the Republican vote on mass transit options. To deny a public transportation system, is unconscionable.

I don’t know what is wrong with many of our Republican politicians. I can only surmise they have something in their back pockets as an alternative which benefits them professionally in their quest to maintain political power in a county that will not stand for their leadership much longer.

We never should have moved out of Virigina Highlands. Can’t wait to go back.

By Goldie

July 17, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Anybody else tired of that?

Again @ 9:59 — yes, I’m certainly tired of racists.

By Laura

July 17, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Jay:

As a Gwinnettian, yes we do need mass transit, but not mass transit to Atlanta. Previous posters have already mentioned that most Gwinnettians do not travel into Atlanta. MARTA supports travel into Atlanta and that’s not an issue for Gwinnettians. The traffic on I-85 South in the mornings is wide open after you go under I285.

I’ve learned that people that don’t live in Gwinnnett are totally ignorant of our lifestyle and what WE need. The AJC seems to ignore the crime that happens in Cobb County, but will put anything negative about Gwinnett in it’s biggest font. Gwinnett is a great place to live. Most of the places I need to go to are under 5-10 minutes from my home. I have absolutely no desire to travel to Atlanta. There is nothing that Atlanta has that I can’t get my fix for here in Gwinnett.

I voted absolutely NO to MARTA.

By Jeff

July 17, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

In response to the comment of “Tour Liberal Bosses,” is it not true that your publisher, John Mellott is in fact a Republican and worked for the “Anderson for President” campaign in 1980? The answer is a resounding yes. The AJC is managed by one of the most conservative publishers in the industry. Believe me, I use to work there.

By CBL

July 17, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

The shouty verbiage on this blog is indicative of the frustration associated with getting around Gwinnett and its general decrease in quality of life. Previous posters got it right. Metro Atlanta is becoming the next Los Angeles. No cooperative leadership, fragmented neighborhoods and counties, traffic from hell and increasing crime are pushing people further out to get out of the sprawl. Gwinnett is sinking- get out if you can, at least before the schools begin to decline.

By professional skeptic

July 17, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Well said, atlmom. If the leaders of our region’s counties and growing laundry list of municipalites had any collective vision with regard to the well-being of the Metro Area as a whole, we would already have a comprehensive, multi-modal transit system to be proud of.

As Jay said, none of our region’s counties and cities seem capable of looking beyond their own borders, or, for that matter, to the future.

Thankfully, a regional transportation-enhancement effort is still underway, despite the non-binding results of Gwinnett’s July 15 straw poll. The Transit Planning Board has developed a regional transportation plan (referred to as “Concept 3”) based on careful study of the region’s needs as well as extensive public input. Something like this needs to happen soon in our region. Based on

It amazes me that countless billions of taxpayer dollars can be spent each year on war, space exploration, paving and re-paving interstates, (not to mention widening the downtown connector from 12 lanes to what appears to be 24 lanes right around 14th street!), but funds for multi-modal transit are almost nowhere to be found.

I’m not suggesting that the billions of dollars spent on these efforts aren’t in some way justified (some more than others), but I am astounded that our state and local leadership don’t place similar emphasis on investment in regional mass transit. And, when I look at the absolutely obscene and grotesque volume of construction and repaving of our region’s interstates happening at this very moment, I simply do not believe politicians who claim that money doesn’t exist for expansion of rail. When it’s time to pave roads, billions of taxpayer dollars spew forth in a geyser-like fashion from the state’s coffers. The next moment, when someone mentions expansion of rail, you can shake the same state pocketbook upside down and only lint falls out. Strange!

(By the way, where’s the EPA while all of this interstate construction is going on? Metro Atlanta already fails national air quality standards. How is doubling the amount of lanes on the downtown connector going to help with this?? More importantly, where was the straw poll asking ME whether I wanted my tax dollars spent on such a horriffic boondoggle, which will do nothing but generate even more automobile traffic, pollution and gridlock?)

In hindsight, the results of Gwinnett’s straw poll are encouraging, as they clearly demonstrate that attitudes are changing. I suppose S-L-O-W change is better than none at all.

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

MikeB, even if we’re to acknowledge your argument that it’s not mostly about bigotry, but rather that it’s unfair to “ask a majority to pay for something the minority use” (paraphrasing) —

Ok. True, if you get a MARTA line that just runs north-south in Gwinnett, and you maybe add another northern line in (say) Buford and that’s it, then sure. only a minority of residents are going to use it directly.

But how about all the folks whose home values rise because of this development? How about the people who are able to drive more easily because a specific number of cars are off the road? How about the residents who are breathing easier, with fewer smog alert days, because these alternatives exist?

Don’t all those folks add up to a majority?

By getalife

July 17, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Using diplomacy in Iran and the warmongering has stopped to lower oil prices.

Withdrawing troops from Iraq and increasing in Afghanistan.

Is w using Obama’s positions?

The dems should compromise to get w to release the oil reserves and he gets to drill.

Then use Obama’s idea to invest 150 billion in alternative energy.

Finally, things are looking better.

By Dusty

July 17, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Mrs. Godzie neighhhhh IN THE NEWS@9:14

Well, it seems you are prejudiced.

Dawg Girl sees rough looking guys on MARTA and thinks they are all thugs. She did not mention race and thugs can come in all colors.

You think rough looking guys are looking around and thinking that’s a repressed, frightned middle class white chick. Are you sure dawg girl is white?

You said deciding on looks to judge character is bad. You mentioned skin color and dawg girl did not. Which one of you is the most prejudiced?

By Beck

July 17, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Joey, your quote of

“MARTA has made miminum effort (which failed) to hook up employment centers like Emory and zero effort to hook up that major destination, Turner Field.”

really perplexes me. There’s a MARTA stop 2 blocks from Turner field and FREE shuttles that run back and forth from MARTA to the Ted. Or at least the shuttles used to be free, anyway a 2 block walk isn’t going to hurt very many people these days.

Also, I would be very interested in comparing the crime rate in Atlanta to the crime rate in Gwinnett to see who actually has it worse. I think you all (in Gwinnett) might have us beat!

By T

July 17, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

By Me Again

You are right. Ok, let me apologize. “Racist” might not be the proper word. Lets try prejudice.

Well, really I just wanted proof that bringing in mass transit causes crime. That is a small minded opposition. Just like the post that someone said there were criminals or thug looking people on the train with them. What do those people look like? How do you know? Or are you just scared of people who don’t look like you? Why didn’t they notify the police if they had commited crimes?

The argument that some do not want their taxes rasised for something they will never use. I can understand that to a point. At least that is somewhat reasonalble.

However, to think that crime comes from mass transit, that is just narrow minded and shameful.

So, please do you have an article, journal, or anything that proves this so called “fact”. Would love to read it and learn something.

By Planner

July 17, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Based on many of the comments, I have to ask two questions - Would you have voted any differently if the question had referenced some new or reorganized transit agency, instead of MARTA specifically? And what if that new agency significantly beefed up security on its trains, stations and parking lots? If those are legitimately your concerns, they can be addressed. Or are these just being used as safe, politically correct excuses for opposing transit?

And once and for all, to all those people who say transit doesn’t go where they need to go or takes longer. Yes, you are absolutely 100% totally correct. By its very nature, transit cannot provide door to door service betwen every origin and every destination in a sprawling region of four million people. But you need to get real with your expectations. Transit may not work for your particular commute. It may not work for your weekend shopping trips. But there are certain corridors where it CAN work for thousands of people who are currently driving to and from their jobs. It CAN work to get you to the occasional Braves game or the airport. And even if you never set foot on the system, it’s to your advantage to get as many of those people off the roads so you can get where need to go faster. Transit will not work for everybody. But just because it won’t work for you directly, don’t deprive other people from the right to have options. And believe it or not, you will benefit indirectly.

Or you can just continue to sit and stew in traffic.

By Analchord

July 17, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Obama 08: What if that fist bump was a freudian slip?

McCain 08: He’s thinking real hard, we’ll get back to you when he’s thought of something to say.

Osama 08: He’s got a pet surrender monkey who wears a dress.

Campaign 08: the year of the cartoon

By Dusty

July 17, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Bosch,@9:36

You are the only person I’ve read that thinks a dictator is the best leader for government. Strong leadership!! Yes indeed. Strong leadership and you don’t even have to vote. Why bother?

I know you modified your statement slightly but your thinking seems to stay the same.

Sooo what’s for lunch today and other folderol? Food is your usual coup de grace..

By Mrs. Godzilla

July 17, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Dusty

Good Morning, I’m glad you are here, I need to talk to you.

I have a bone to pick with you.

Yesterday you posted this:

“You and Mrs. Godzie give us the propaganda list from Dem headquarters every day.”

THAT IS A LIE

This is the website for The Democratic Party

If you cannot show where I have posted from that website every day – Then it shows that you are a liar.

Now, I use lots of websites for sources that are proud to call themselves liberal or progressive, and I occasionally use The Democratic Party sight, but for you, Dusty, to say I post the propaganda list from Dem Headquarters every day is a lie

I point this out to help you, you have potential, you are not dim-witted – you just appear to be letting your frustration over the failure of the President you have so admired and his policies to get the best of you.*

Dusty, if you want to be taken seriously, you must insure that You protect your credibility and Dusty, you do not protect your credibility by telling lies

Take care dear heart.

OH and BTW

Your 10:15 is no improvement.

It appears that you only understand irony or satire when it is convenient to your points.

Please, Dusty, think about your posts and how they reflect on you before you hit the post button.

Let us help you!

By ByteMan

July 17, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

@Beck and @Dusty: it’s not exactly “fair” to compare the crime rates in a large county vs. the crime rates in an urban city. Especially since MARTA also all over Dekalb and Fulton counties. Better to compare crime rates per-resident for all three counties. Pretty sure the GBI will have those stats available somewhere online.

The rest of your questions, @Dusty, were good ones. I think on whether there are riders on the GCT, you should look to the way they are growing certain routes (like the express ones downtown) and shrinking others for clues. I don’t see anything on their site about total ridership, but I might have missed it. Same with Cobb. Anecdotal evidence is pretty clear that the express busses to downtown are VERY popular (and more-so lately) and the intra-county busses are less popular, but getting busier along certain corridors.

By Dusty

July 17, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Analchord 10:22

I thought Campaign 08 was the Year of the Maroon.

By Chris

July 17, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett Idiots….Show me these “stats” or where to find these “stats” about crime going up in areas of where MARTA was brought. Better yet, show or tell me where to find these “stats” on any city with mass transit. Why do residents in Chicago and NY not complain about mass transit in their areas? They actually fight to build it in their areas.

If nothing is done now, you and your kids will regret it even more in years to come.

IDIOTS!!!!

By WillM

July 17, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Hi Jennefer,

“I live in Gwinnett, am a Democrat, and stand in disbelief at the Republican vote on mass transit options. To deny a public transportation system, is unconscionable. “

Bless your heart. You must be from outside the South.

“we never should have moved out of Virginia Highlands.”

Ah, so you DID just move “into the South”! ;-))

By Taxpayer

July 17, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett County has too much CO2.

By Reality

July 17, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Marie, no one is saying that the Republican party is racist, but you know in your Republican heart that your party does attract bigots, religious zealots, anti-intellectuals and people who have isms, and phobias. Most of all people who think nuancing is character flaw.

By Dusty

July 17, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Dear Mrs. Godzie neighhhh IN THE NEWS 10:25

Oh oh it seems I have stepped on your tender little toesies. OK..You do not post DNC propaganda. You simply post COMPILED DEMOCRATIC PROPAGANDA from many sources. (Is there a difference?)

There! Do you feel better? Yes indeed. Our lady of the Demo Knights is an impartial gatherer of left leaning literature. Whoopee!

Don’t take youself so seriously, Godzie. Nobody cares. They know it is propaganda..

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Midori,

Your cats must have been REALLY good lately. I tossed my Christmas Eve rescue cat, Lily, a pepperoni last night and she looked at me like, “what am I supposed to do with this?”

Dusty,

Poor dear. I know because I wrote it, you go into your usual “I hate Bosch” mode and make up crap, and where you come up with your crap, I know not, but no where did I suggest a dictator as the answer.

I was thinking more along the lines of how the 21-year old drinking age was implemented on a national level.

Is that easy enough for ya’ to understand?

You know, my offer still stands, that anytime you feel the need to respond to me, you can just type “Oh, how I hate that stupid Bosch” - it really saves more time and less stress on your fingers - could reduce stiffness in your joints. You know how I care about your well-being and all.

By @@

July 17, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

@@, every day you just reinforce my belief that you are one pitiful, sorely ignorant pup.

Well Midori, last night you called me a trollop <——(that remains on Jay’s site BTW) and today I’m a pup.

By JAY BOOKMAN July 17, 2008 6:21 AM | Link to this

It’s pretty simple, Bud. Be at least minimally respectful to your fellow commenters, or get pulled.

If YOU don’t take responsibility for what you post, I will. That’s the rules.

Now since you don’t have to follow the rules, I’m bettin’ you’re up there wandering the AJC halls and they’re afraid you might go postal on ‘em if you do. Lawd only knows, going postal on their sites is all too familiar to many of us.

Just methin’ with ‘ya Dori girl. The day I allow your silly posts to get me riled will be the day I can no longer smile. Sadly enough you’re already there.

I can only imagine…..

By Mrs. Godzilla

July 17, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Thank you DUSTY for your gracious apology

By MikeB

July 17, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Hillbilly- I’m not a bigot. I am conseravtive, my neighborhood is intergrated and I have some of the best neighbors one could ask for. From all walks of life, and races of people.

I just beleive that MARTA is not the answer. They, like Grady hopsital have never been able to work within financial boundries, and have to keep tapping the well of taxpayer $$$ to stay afloat.

It’s the fiscal mismangement. If Gwinnett ridership is not at least break even then MARTA will hit us up again, again, and again, if this system is built. That is what they do…… Its how they run things.. Its a gamble pure and simple, and all the risk is on the taxpayer. Once Gwinnett opes that door to MARTA mgmt. it will never close.

Now If Gwinnett and other counties wanted to develop a plan that was more county centric, outside of MARTA’s area of influence, that connected to MARTA on the edge of the county, I would be interested to see this plan. I stand by my statement tho…. MARTA and Grady are supported by all, to provide services for a few Thats reality, not bigotry. MARTA Mgmt. would like nothing more than to expand into other counties because they look at this expansion as a way to subsidise their business to whenever they want. They provide the same service they always have. Let them run MARTA off of the ridership revenue without dipping into my pocket too. Prove to the public you can be responsible stewards of this service, before you go with your hand out MARTA.

By Reality

July 17, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

My nephew attends GA State and sports dread locks, looks like a thug, graduated from high school(a private school) at 16 and entered GA State on HOPE. Is he one of those scary looking MARTA riders who looks like a thug that you whiners encounter.

By JAY BOOKMAN

July 17, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Midori:

Cut it out.

By @@

July 17, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

happy?

Always Midori……always.

It’s the one thing I have that irritates you so, Silly.

By Carnivore

July 17, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Apparently it IS a widely shared assessment. It may not be Jay’s assessment, or the AJC’s assessment, but to say it isn’t widely shared is not true.

Few people want MARTA in Gwinnett. Like someone else said, the vast majority of Gwinnett commuters aren’t going to Atlanta, they are going somewhere else. I-85 is wide open every morning after you go under Spaghetti Junction.

I might support another rail alternative to Alpharetta, Roswell, Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Athens, and some other places. But there is no way MARTA should be here. It is too poorly managed and in fact should be eliminated entirely.

I don’t believe Gwinnett residents have been wrong for 20 years in saying no to MARTA. Perhaps Jay and the AJC should actually LISTEN to what we are saying.

By hrw

July 17, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Right before our eyes we are seeing a grave change in our country; these United States of America. Death, guns, stealing, black & white even in these day’s and time; it’s like we can’t get along. Race, it has no purpose because it is what it is and God made them that way. Public transporations; gas, food, jobs, like we are being set-up for failure; not what I have seen in all of my 58 years here on earth; we can’t seem to get things together for our people; our normal way of life; our children lost in a world of getting it anyway they can; and our prison is filled and continue to fill up! We have elected officials sit up in Washington and do nothing but pretend and yet, its very on people suffer because we have not even comes to the reality that we pay taxes and not get our rightful way to work in jobs and support our families. It’s time for a change of the guard and new elected offcials be given a chance to move our contury forward.

By professional skeptic

July 17, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

A separate rail system for each county is not the answer. Just imagine the nightmare of having to stop at every county line and wait on another train, just to get from point A to point B.

We need a seamless regional rail service overseen by a single regional transit authority. A large regional rail system would have a larger voice and an easier time securing federal funds than some ridiculous patchwork quilt of county-run systems that some people are suggesting.

By RW-(the original)

July 17, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

You moonbat(ic)s® kill me.

If we begin the process of drilling for oil we won’t get any for 5 to 7 years so we shouldn’t even bother.

If we build MARTA rails in Gwinnett it’ll be 5 to 7 years before we can transport riders so we better get started right now.

And we should let you run the country? i think not.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

…..given that a state primary election in the middle of July tends to be ignored by all but the hardest core of the party faithful.

The turnout numbers bear that out. Only 36,000 Republicans voted in Gwinnett’s primary Tuesday, compared to more than 81,000 in February’s Republican presidential primary.

Jay,

I know it’s fun to take numbers and make believe they prove your statements, but it’s complete BS to say that the second excerpt proves the first excerpt. Races for President always draw a much higher turnout. It may prove that only those most devoted to the electoral process show up for primaries, but it doesn’t prove that only hardcore partisans show up.

By jasper

July 17, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

So Mrs. G, you like Chicago’s transit system. How do like its Crime Rate? Seems the mayor is ready to call in the National Guard, as of today. 29 kids killed in 29 weeks. 28 of whom are African American. BTW - Shouldn’t the “Change” that NObama is bringing to the rest of the country have affected Illinois by now. Or is that the kind of change we can expect.

I don’t subscribe to the theory that mass transit equals crime, but there is sure not a inverse correlation either. Regardless, Gwinett does not need any further impetus for growth. The infrastructure still vastly lags the Wayne Hill era. 10 more years and the bottom half of Gwinnett will be a social quagmire anyway and the measure will pass. But this will provide us crusty ole’ conservatives with a comfortable window for attrition.

By Dusty

July 17, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Oh dear ..so little time…..so many .err..miscreants.

Bosch Boy, you wanted a strong leader I gave you one. I don’t hate you. That would be like hating puppy dogs. Get someone to rub you behind the ears. It cuts down on the yapping and barking.

I suggest the same thing for our bulldog, Midori.

Mrs. Godzie…. neighhhh… IN THE NEWS 10:43

Yep, I have a bag full of sweet soothing sentiments for you gatherers of DEMOCRATIC PROPAGANDA. But…I’m saving lots of “sweets” for your tears and torment after the 2008 election. McCain is our GAIN!!!

Now, Mrs. Godzie, if you need any more help CALL 911…

I am leaving shortly and may enter the world of MARTA or my true trusty Cavalier. Stay happy!!!

By Do this math

July 17, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Here are some numbers for you.

Number of counties in greater Atlanta metro area: 20 Number of these counties with MARTA: 2

If MARTA is such a good thing, and our transportation problems are obvious, then why are 18 out of 20 counties not clamoring for it?

And the concept of connecting Gwinnett to the urban core is laughable. Downtown Atlanta is rotting, it is dead. Why would anyone tie themselves to that? The whole reason that the suburbs sprawl so far here is that most people wanted to get the hell away from that. Why would we want to connect to it? Makes no sense at all. If the urban core were worth a damn, the suburbs would collapse and everyone would rush to be close in. I don’t see that happening ever.

By Taxpayer

July 17, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Personally, I would like to see the rail system extended up GA400. I think it would be nice, for example to have it run from Dahlonega (the current end of 400) and through Atlanta with branches that parallel I75 and I85. Heck, I wouldn’t mind going on vacation to Panama City Beach (for example), via rail, from North Georgia. I’d just rent a little electric car down there to scoot around in. When I can’t get away to Florida, I might even like to be able to get some almost-fresh Grouper delivered by train up here. Now I’m hungry for a fresh grouper sandwich.

By Asian against marta

July 17, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

it is just not the whites, hardworking,conservative ,professional asian families are also against crime ridden marta and junk coming here to gwinnett.

we dont want to pay any money to spendthrift democrats in atlanta, fulton and dekalb so they can fund pensions for lazy marta employees.

NO MARTA EVER ATLEAST NOT IN MY LIFE TIME.

By WillM

July 17, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

Do This Math: “If MARTA is such a good thing, and our transportation problems are obvious, then why are 18 out of 20 counties not clamoring for it?”

You’re falling into a very basic fallacy there.

Going to the gym is also “good for me”, but do I always do it when I should? No. And certainly not everyone who badly needs to go to the gym is “clamoring” for it.

Another reason the Conservative’s free market golden cow is an ideological construct par excellence. It fails to take into account the painful initial steps that are often required in building something useful and valuable, such as a city, and in such cases often the right kind of political leadership is required.

By Tom

July 17, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

Ugh. RW, @@, Homo-Duh, Dustmite, et al. The NASCAR Repunk hayshakers are busy here today. See the hatred and bitterness and other dysfunctions spill out and over. See that their vote counts as much as yours. Now that’s very sad.

By RW-(the original)

July 17, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Mrs. G,

Is it true that you were posting as ITFS? My, my…if so I suspect that you’ll never call me disrespectful again.

By Chip

July 17, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Some of the comments have, as usual, just become idiotic. Of course, I am sure quite a few are just the normal blogging a-holes trying to get people riled up.

I am going to say something about Jeffery’s comment at 9:17. I grew up in Dunwoody and the MARTA station was starting to be built a year or so after I left for college. People were freaking out about the crime that was supposed to come. Well I am back in Atlanta and still go to Perimeter Mall. Seems the same as it was before I left (with the exception that the mall has grown at gotten better). Where are these statistics of a jump in the crime rate? Show me those and keep in mind the jump in population of that area as well.

By professional skeptic

July 17, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

MikeB:

Show me an interstate system that doesn’t “have to keep tapping the well of taxpayer $$$ to stay afloat,” and maybe your assertions of fiscal mismanagement would hold water.

News flash! ALL transit systems require taxpayer support, especially the network of highways and roads we drive on every day.

Please, just think logically for a moment. If you add up all the revenues generated by Georgia’s roads (e.g GA 400 tolls), then subtract from that the countless billions of taxpayers’ dollars spent each year on construction and maintenance…

Well, I hope you get the picture. Georgia’s system of roads and interstates is NOT self-supporting. It is NOT profitable. It would NOT exist without taxpayer support, as user fees such as tolls and gas tax do NOT cover everything.

So, please explain to me why taxpayer support of raods is acceptable, while similar taxpayer support of rail systems is a sign of fiscal mismanagement?

Either that, or come up with a better argument against rail.

By Burb Boy

July 17, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

OK Northerners, if you moved from Chicago, NY, DC, or any other city with such a great rapid transit system, why did you move to Gwinnett? Why don’t you go back to your transit haven??? I’m so tired of these people trying to compare Gwinnett to their hometown, and how Gwinnett should be like Chicago, blah blah…

When I moved to Gwinnett, I knew there was no MARTA. If I wanted to ride MARTA I would’ve bought house in another county. I work in Downtown ATL and yes gas is expensive but that’s the price you pay when you live in the suburbs. If you can’t afford it, then you shouldn’t live so far from work to begin with. How stupid is that???

Gwinnett was never built for people who don’t have cars, just count the sidewalks, bus routes, bike lanes if you don’t believe me.

YES, MARTA does bring crime. I used to live in Sandy Springs and I was very excited when they built the North Springs station. Well, let me tell you something, it took about 2 years for me to make the decision to move to Gwinnett. WHY? Because of MARTA!!! My car got broken into twice in my apt, the burglaries, the break ins, robberies increased. The decent people started moving out, NO I’m not saying that it brought more Blacks and this is why people left!! There were a lot of decent blacks, Indians, Brazilians, Hispanics, and other minorities living in the complex before MARTA and they left too. No wonder it didn’t take long for Sandy Springs to become a city.

You think that whites are the only ones who run away from other minorities, but let me tell you something: A lot of the blacks I know have told me that they left Atlanta because they couldn’t take it anymore…. Is that a code for Blacks or the N word? They didn’t live in a predominantly white area, so are they racist too?

It is ignorant and offensive to label someone a racist because they don’t support MARTA.

Also, what guarantees do we have that traffic isn’t going to get worse? The people still have to drive to the MARTA stations. What if there a budget shortfall, should we increase the sales tax? With MARTA in Gwinnett, aren’t more people going to move to Gwinnett? How is that going to affect local traffic, schools, infrastructure, etc… How is that not going to increase traffic?

Call me what you will but if you think that MARTA is the silver bullet for traffic and high gas prices I will call you this: STUPID!!! Of course, this is just my humble opinion…

By RW-(the original)

July 17, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Mornin’ Tom

Have you seen Ralph and Abe?

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Dusty,

So does your post @ 11:12 mean that you hate puppies?

God, what kind of person are you?

And who would that strong leader be that you referred to - warning, I’m drinking Coke right now and your answer may cause me to ruin my keyboard.

By Mrs. Godzilla

July 17, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Burb Boy

Since you are also not a native of Gwinnett County, perhaps you should practice what you preach and remove yourself to you own place of origin.

By Paul

July 17, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Mrs Godzilla and Dusty having a nice conversation.

The “Obama Effect” works!

(c’mon, Dusty - smile!)

getalife 10:13

We can only hope. I read a columnist’s analysis of why the ultraleft blogs are going ballistic over Obama (just as you said they would). His point was - all the talk about change in style, methods, working together - what did these people think, that he meant that the change would happen when everyone else came over to their side? No - it meant Obama’s side would also move closer to them.

That was a decent compromise - Strat Reserve release and offshore drilling. Unfortunately, I see the Dem leadership as being unaware (or uncaring) of the public’s views and resolutely staying with the same policy they’ve had for decades and the ire could be directed at the national ticket in the fall.

Reality 10:53

And I have a family member who looks like he’s part of ZZ Top. Most gentle, decent guy you’ll ever meet. Stopped to help a family with car trouble. As he walked over the windows went up and the doors locked. Happens to lots of people. The prejudice you describe is much worse and more widespread than what I described, but bottom line - some people think the unfamiliar is scary.

Bosch

Heroes returns this fall. John Voight is the new villain on 24 (I think Angelina Jolie’s providing script input). And Robin Hood is a hoot. First episode they answered my question about why they don’t just kill the Sheriff and be done with it.

By Midori

July 17, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

what’s wrong with bull dogs, Crusty?

I suspect Bosch is correct.

Yo Crusty: woof, woof!!!

By RW-(the original)

July 17, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Bosch,

Since I’m an outside observer please allow me to tell you what your ongoing antipathy toward Dusty looks like.

She seems to enjoy lightheartedly pulling your chain and you just look bitter. Feel free to continue on of course, but she really makes you look foolish.

By Corey

July 17, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Mike B., when has MARTA ever asked the tax payers to bail them out. The 1 cent sales tax is all they have ever operated on coupled with fares. During tough times they eliminated routes and cut back on service. Fare increases have been few and not often. The state does not fund MARTA so you do not contribute unless you shop in Dekalb, Fulton or the city of Atlanta where the 1 cent sales tax to support MARTA is levied. Stop the lying, please. I also notice that Gwinnett and Cobb buses operate to and from Arts Center and other MARTA stations, but there is no representative at those stations from Cobb and Gwinnett. When riders have questions about Gwinnett and Cobb service they rely on MARTA personnel to provide them with information about systems that they do not work for nor do they have schedule information etc. about those systems, and people get mad and scream incompetence when MARTA personnel can’t answer their questions. Is it MARTA’s responsibility to inform patrons who use other transit agencies about schedules etc. of those agencies? Is it fair to hold MARTA personnel accountable for the lack of information at those stations regarding Cobb and Gwinnett service? We who use MARTA also pay for GRTA which is state funded, but we don’t whine because our tax dollars also support Cobb’s system because it receives state funding and is in partnership with GRTA. So we residents of Fulton, Dekalb and Atlanta are subsidizing MARTA, CCT, GCT and GRATA, but we don’t cry about our tax dollars going to something we don’t use.

By lees

July 17, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Kind of makes you wonder if the RNC has slipped in a few hacks to kick up some dander here. The level of intelligence fits.

By Mike Hussein S

July 17, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

After reading all the racist and vicious posts, I suddenly decided extending MARTA would be a bad idea. Let’s put a wall all along the Gwinnett County line to keep the riff raff from heading south into Fulton and DeKalb.

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

MikeB @ 10:43, first of all if I had in any way implied that you were a bigot, my apologies, that was not my point.

You and I probably aren’t all that far apart on this one, actually. I think you’d be receptive to a transit system that was more county-specific, and my argument is that once you’ve got a MARTA station in the county, that would serve as an impetus to offer more connections in and out of that station (and to extend the line north, of course.)

While it’s fine to think of the county first, truth is most people have plenty of business out of Gwinnett. Not necessarily downtown/inside the perimeter (and it’s a fair knock that MARTA doesn’t help going burb-to-burb) but the next county over, perhaps.

That said… I’m trying to be understanding about the s-l-o-w acceptance Jay speaks of. I’ve been here for the better part of a decade and it still boggles my mind that people seem to think that county borders are especially important. It just seems weird. I don’t care much about county, city, or state borders; all I know is, there are places I need to go, and it kinda sucks that I almost always have to go by car. That can’t be good.

Oh, one other thing. It’s just not realistic, as you write (and as I hear from others, including Wooten) for any transit system to be wholly supported by rider fares. I don’t know of any system in the industrialized world that manages, that way; I think most folks acknowledge that all conveyances, including autos, are subsidized at one end or another.

Also, there’s that whole benefit-to-everyone thing I mentioned… reducing congestion (or at least reducing its escalation, a bit), better air, some options for people who really do not or perhaps SHOULD NOT be driving… those are all worth something, yes?

By Midori

July 17, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

I moved here a little over 10 years ago, but had visited friends and family before the move.

That was in the late eighties - very early nineties.

Even then I heard the very same excuses being made for not wanting public transportation in Gwinnett County.

Hard to believe - even for me. I thought I had heard it all.

Some people have to be dragged into the 21st Century — not only for their own good but also for the good of the Country.

By Get Real

July 17, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

You again @ 9:40, I don’t believe I ever called you a neo con, backwards thinking yes. Definitely! Yeah I’m one of ‘those people’ and know that having Marta in Gwinnett won’t bring what is already there. We can be in agreement that Gwinnett isn’t rural anymore as so say is their reasoning to keep Marta out. There are plenty of taxes paid by all, that only a few benefit from. Should I pay school taxes since I don’t have children? As you view yourself as a neo con, I know your party has left you with nothing but childish namecalling as a defense. I don’t live in Gwinnett but the traffic that comes up and down 85 everyday DOES affect me getting home in the evening. Marta won’t solve all of your counties many problems, but it is a start.

By crazy eddie

July 17, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

By Burb Boy

July 17, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

BURB BOY…Since you lived in Sandy Springs when the North Springs Station was built you haven’t lived in Gwinnett all that long. I have!

I remember when Beaver Ruin Rd was just that .. A ROAD!

Now, every morning Beaver Ruin is a major disaster, and trying to get on 85 is a joke!

You may like sitting in traffic? I don’t!

By Get a clue people

July 17, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

http://www.governing.com/articles/0807atlanta.htm

In the suburbs as well, rapid changes in demographics are rendering pat assumptions about politics outdated. Gwinnett County, once a white Republican bastion, captured fully a quarter of the metro area’s non-white growth from 2000-06; there, a political structure that has only begun to reflect the population changes is being pressed to meet the quality-of-life demands of its new constituencies. Throughout the suburbs, a culture that was built on a single model — cars and sprawl — is caught between an exploding population that can’t afford to sustain it and a state political leadership that resists making the investments needed to change it.

The negative force that has been creating demographic change is traffic. Atlanta’s traffic congestion problem is one of the most intractable in America; the city recently led Forbes magazine’s list of worst cities for commuters. This dysfunctional mess has many roots, from the refusal of Clayton, Cobb and Gwinnett counties in the 1970s to accept MARTA, the regional transit system; to the state’s preference for funding roads over transit; to a sprawling development pattern in which most of the jobs are downtown or north of the city and most of the people who hold those jobs have to drive into the city or through it to get to work. Meanwhile, in once-staid Gwinnett, the emergence of a substantial non-white and less affluent population has led to a marked shift in county leaders’ attitudes. “The folks that were here for generations were a little bit ruffled by the growth of outsiders moving in,” says Emory Morsberger, one of the county’s leading developers. “That’s why Gwinnett County didn’t support MARTA coming in — they wanted to be isolated. But the racial thing I think is now pretty well done. People aren’t as worried about different races and religions being in their area, and are much more willing to work together with whoever is willing to work to make progress.”

So it is that the county’s voters now appear ready to join MARTA and an electorate that was once solidly Republican is shifting — not so much because of its racial and ethnic makeup but because the GOP-run legislature has made little progress in addressing its concerns. “Suburban Republican legislators whose constituents desperately need solutions, but whose party ideology is ‘no taxation,’ they’re trapped,” says Jay Bookman. “If they can’t find a way to fund more transportation options, they’re going to accelerate the transition to the Democratic Party.”

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Get a Clue @ 11.58, just finished the article you linked to. Very interesting, and on-topic. Thanks. Think I’ll link to it here in case lazy people don’t feel like scrollin’ back up.

(Hightly recommended to others, mostly to understand the demographics in play here.)

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

RW,

While I respect your opinion on matters of politics, I really couldn’t care less what your personal observations of me look like. And as usual, your observations about me are wrong. While your chivalric attempts to protect Dusty are commendable, she doesn’t come close to “pulling my chain,” tone of conversations can be lost in written exchange, yes?

Paul,

Glad you liked it, it’s not Emmy worthy or anything, but it’s good brain candy for Saturday evenings!

So, just out of curiosity, do you consider our current systems of transportation inadequacies a threat to national security or no.

Running then lunch awaits! Later.

By Gandalf, the Grey

July 17, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

We don’t want or need Marta Jay, WE HAVE CARS AND INCOME…keep your ratty MARTA in the beltway.

We don’t want or need what comes with MARTA…that’s people like you.

Keep your silly socialist state confined to 285.

Silly Jay talking for the Republicans! How Silly! WE ARE THE PARTY OF LINCOLN.

You silly communist! You are so condescending to people of color it makes me laugh, and they buy it like you are sincere! Now go away you silly twit!

By RW-(the original)

July 17, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

So Katie Couric, Brian Williams, and Charlie Gibson are all traveling with Obambi on his Iraq, Afghanistan, Europe tour. What liberal bias in the media?

Obambi better watch out though because if he does his gaffmaster routine it might accidentally get covered.

By WillM

July 17, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Well said, Get a clue people.

To the fire-eating dead-enders, I have just one example to direct your attention to: Northern Virginia suburbs.

It’s coming to a suburb near you, like it or not.

My prediction: in 10-12 yrs from now the notion that Gwinnett county (which by then will be almost indistinguishable demographically from Orange County, which btw has just officially become minority white and is now for the first time, pretty much Democratic leaning) would reject transit will be laughable.

By RW-(the original)

July 17, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Bosch,

If you couldn’t care less why comment?

I’m also not sure how you can say I’m wrong since I’m only telling you what I see. What I see is what I see and I’m well aware that others will see things differently.

By WillM

July 17, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Just what I thought. The name “Gandalf, the Grey” says it all.

We’re dealing with people who are stuck in the second half of the 19th Century here.

To your comment: “We don’t want or need what comes with MARTA…that’s people like you.” Sorry pal, we’re already there. So you can take off your silly grey uniform. It’s a tad pathetic by now.

By Bob Pratts

July 17, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

I’m a conservative who voted against MARTA because it is a miserable failure in Fulton and Dekalb, rampant with incompetence and corruption. What thoughtful person would vote to bring that into Gwinnett? Make it work in Fulton and Dekalb, then we’ll talk.

By TIMEFORCHANGE

July 17, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Tell me why Gwinnett County residents need a way into downtown Atlanta. Most of them dont. They dont work there and they dont go there. So why would we want to up our taxes becasue of it. We dont, we pay enough taxes for programs we dont or wont ever use.

As for crime, no Marta might not bring crime but it will allow for low income families to travel by bus to get out to the suburbs. What comes with that is a lot of no car driving, non working trash that allow their kids to run wild with no supervison while their parents lay around on the couch drinking beer and having parties. Oh now the people who want to bash me for that statement only need to come to my neighborhood in Gwinnett where this HAS happened. We have been flooded by Atlanta and Decatur residents via way of bus and not a one of them works. Along with the bordom of these kids comes breakins and damage of property. Five mailbox replacements, two scratched cars and a breakin while I was at work taking my sterio, computer, TV’s and money will attest to that. Yes I know all about what the bus system brings to a well developed neighborhood. Now you ask me to vote for marta? No way, Gwinnett Transit connects and it has brought enough problems. I moved to Walton but my house stays empty. Cant rent it. Nobody wants to move their anymore. Sorry folks. Its a bust in Gwinnett.

By Hillbilly Deluxe

July 17, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

I don’t have a dog in this fight (just a figure of speech before anybody gets excited) so I won’t comment on MARTA in Gwinnett. I would like to put my two cents in on the copy and paste thing. Couldn’t that just be limited to links. Paste your link; those who are interested can click and read, everyone else can scroll on by.

By professional skeptic

July 17, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

@ Bob Pratts:

What is your basis for claiming, “MARTA…is a miserable failure in Fulton and Dekalb, rampant with incompetence and corruption.”

Please support your claim with facts. MARTA moves half a million people in Fulton and DeKalb each day, keeping cars off the road and improving air quality. Exactly how is this a failure?

By hillbilly ragger

July 17, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Bob @ 12.26, just how pristeenly perfect an operation would MARTA need to be before you’d “bring that into Gwinnett”?

To paraphrase Rumsfeld, you go with the regional rail system you have, not the regional rail system you would like to have. Obviously, if you had Gwinnett contributing to the development, I’d have every expectation that our residents would have more say in how it was run.

Them’s details. Stuff you negotiate. Not an excuse to shoot it down altogether up front.

Face it, naysayers—your arguments against are starting to get awfully thin, and it’s pretty obvious that you’re increasingly out of step with a very large, growing chunk of the voting public.

By Delo

July 17, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

“it is a miserable failure in Fulton and Dekalb”

Hmm, that’s funny. I ride a MARTA bus from my home to Avondale and then a train from there to Buckhead every day. Yeah, a real failure. I save my family hundreds of dollars a month in gas, save wear and tear on my truck, and don’t have to deal with crazy ATL drivers.

Oh, and as far as those that say MARTA=crime…looks like MARTA absolutely destroyed the whole Lenox/Buckhead and Perimeter areas. They thrive with businesses because transit=density and density=economy.

By Burb Boy

July 17, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

OK Northerners, if you moved from Chicago, NY, DC, or any other city with such a great rapid transit system, why did you move to Gwinnett? Why don’t you go back to your transit haven??? I’m so tired of these people trying to compare Gwinnett to their hometown, and how Gwinnett should be like Chicago, blah blah…

When I moved to Gwinnett, I knew there was no MARTA. If I wanted to ride MARTA I would’ve bought house in another county. I work in Downtown ATL and yes gas is expensive but that’s the price you pay when you live in the suburbs. If you can’t afford it, then you shouldn’t live so far from work to begin with. How stupid is that???

Gwinnett was never built for people who don’t have cars, just count the sidewalks, bus routes, bike lanes if you don’t believe me.

YES, MARTA does bring crime. I used to live in Sandy Springs and I was very excited when they built the North Springs station. Well, let me tell you something, it took about 2 years for me to make the decision to move to Gwinnett. WHY? Because of MARTA!!! My car got broken into twice in my apt, the burglaries, the break ins, robberies increased. The decent people started moving out, NO I’m not saying that it brought more Blacks and this is why people left!! There were a lot of decent blacks, Indians, Brazilians, Hispanics, and other minorities living in the complex before MARTA and they left too. No wonder it didn’t take long for Sandy Springs to become a city.

You think that whites are the only ones who run away from other minorities, but let me tell you something: A lot of the blacks I know have told me that they left Atlanta because they couldn’t take it anymore…. Is that a code for Blacks or the N word? They didn’t live in a predominantly white area, so are they racist too?

It is ignorant and offensive to label someone a racist because they don’t support MARTA.

Also, what guarantees do we have that traffic isn’t going to get worse? The people still have to drive to the MARTA stations. What if there a budget shortfall, should we increase the sales tax? With MARTA in Gwinnett, aren’t more people going to move to Gwinnett? How is that going to affect local traffic, schools, infrastructure, etc… How is that not going to increase traffic?

Call me what you will but if you think that MARTA is the silver bullet for traffic and high gas prices I will call you this: STUPID!!!

By Taxpayer

July 17, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Well, I feel like I’m in a strange sort of minority here being born and raised in the south — Georgia, that is. So, I guess that gives me at least a little heads up on the way things are down here south of Tennessee and North of the Okefenokee. Or, maybe it’s more appropriate to say “the way things have always been.” Take counties, for example. They’re often mistaken by foreigners as little islands surrounded by land. Some even, rightfully, refer to them as countries. One reason we have lots of counties is because we have so much diversity here in Georgia. Why we’ve probably got more folks that think their way is the only way even though it differs from every other way than anywhere. Another reason we have lots of counties is because we have a need for lots of non-farm payrolls and well government jobs fit the bill while giving all these diverse folks a means to express themselves. Of course, the “official” reason we have all these counties is because our government, in its infinite (due to its sheer size) wisdom, decided that us regular tax-paying folks should not have to travel by horse and buggy more than a day’s round trip from home to the county’s seat — the place where you go to conduct all your official government business. Well, there’s a whole lot more to the story but you probably get my drift. Anyway, seeing as how we’ll all be back to horse and buggy days before you know it (what with the price of gas and all as it is), I’d say that it’s a good thing we southerners are so slow about thinking through things like transportation. What we really need to be doing in preparation for the un-affordable-gas future is working on methods for hitching up the automobiles to the horses.

By Bud Wiser

July 17, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

“By Analchord July 17, 2008 9:02 AM

I wonder if I got Mrs. McCain juiced up enough on Rush Limbaugh RX that I might get a lap dance or something.”

“By GodHatesTrash

July 17, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

I think I have a solution that might work for Gwinnett GOPers - perhaps white only buses/trains, or have the blacks and Mexicans sit in a different part of the bus? They could allow the elderly colored on the white only buses if they have government issued picture ID. “

“By Shane

July 17, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this.

…Oops. Oh well. I kinda hate reading anything that claims to be “Right”, coming from the right, or “Right-minded” at this point. If anyone tells you they are for the Reich, er, I mean the Right, then it’s a safe bet they are a complete idiot. The Left isn’t much better, but it’s a far cry from the simpleton douchebags on the Reich, er, uh, I mean Right.”

Jay I am highly offended by these remarks, inferring sexual innuendo, outright racism, and Nazism

I think that it is your responsibility. to pull them, as you did mine yesterday.

“By JAY BOOKMAN

July 16, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Bud, your mama would not be proud of you. In fact, to save her the shame, I’m pulling that comment so she can’t see it, plus several more just because you earned it.

By JAY BOOKMAN

July 17, 2008 6:21 AM | Link to this

It’s pretty simple, Bud. Be at least minimally respectful to your fellow commenters, or get pulled.

If YOU don’t take responsibility for what you post, I will. That’s the rules.”

BTW, my Mom passed away this past Christmas Day, and since I am pretty darn sure that the AJC doesn’t make the circulation inside the Pearly Gates, then she missed nothing. I miss her terribly, but yes, had she known I had written that, she would not have had a smile on her face.

Just who do the ‘rules’ really apply to anyway, Jay? A little clarification might be in order on who is on your Endangered Species list, at least for verbiage. Be at least minimally respectful to your fellow commenters, or get pulled.…. does that really have any meaning, or just more Dimmokraut censorship? The Nazis got a head start by burning books. You are arbitrarily burning freedom of speech in the same manner.

By Abomi Nation

July 17, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Gwinnett doesn’t want to pay for MARTA, and generally doesn’t want to pay taxes, period. We hear you loud and clear.

The vote just taken in Gwinnett says Republicans think their party has moved too far to the left. Surely you would not support a bailout from Georgia or the US government to improve your infrastructure. That would involve big government and an entitlement mentality.

You seem content sitting in traffic. Whats the plan Gwinnett?

By GaLiberal

July 17, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Jay is insightful as ever unlike Gwinnett racist Rethuglicons. Jay is quite correct that traffic congestion and higher living costs are forcing some to move back closer to the city core areas. Access to public transportation is one of the factors.

But, there is another problem and that is the perception that MARTA is an abject failure and unable to spend their ‘tax money’ wisely. MARTA has a huge problem with timely operation, reliability of trains, clean and safe rail cars, and rider protection. MARTA did for a while have police patrols on each train. MARTA did for a while have clean, safe, reliable trains. But it became too costly and they abandoned these efforts. Until it fixes these perception issues, it is doomed to only Fulton and DeKalb counties unless it is taken over by another agency like GRTA. Not likely given the Rethuglicons are trying to force MARTA (and Fulton and DeKalb counties) into bankruptcy.

MARTA can no longer afford to be a mass transit system for the poor while trying to get majority white suburbanites to fund the system. The DC Metro is an example of what MARTA must become. The DC Metro is meant to serve the suburbs and charges a much higher fare for the service. MARTA handwrings over a every tiny fare increase because it might hurt the poor. Perhaps what is needed is two separate systems; one for the city and one for the suburbs. MARTA needs to go to a station-by-station fare with surcharges for certain stations (airport) and time (rush hour). It can no longer count on expansion for increased revenues.

When you vote Rethuglicon, you vote against your own best interests. And the Gwinnett MARTA vote is living proof.

By MP

July 17, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

The only people that complain about Marta are the people that don’t use Marta. They say that Marta brings crime and is not run right. Most of that is not true, Marta is run very well for the budget that it has, no help from the state and limited local and federal help. Gwinnett citizen need to get over their racial fears and prejudices and support mass transit. You won’t be just helping poor blacks and Mexicans get from place to place by bringing in Marta. Mass transit helps everyone just like highways do. If Gwinnett wants to help its quality of life and keep good jobs, it needs to build some kind of trains that connects to Atlanta and the airport now before its too late. Gwinnett County should also merge its bus system with Marta. It does not make sense having two different transit systems in one area.

By Asian against marta

July 17, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

I’m a ASIAN conservative who voted against MARTA because it is a miserable failure in Fulton and Dekalb, rampant with incompetence and corruption.

MARTA IS CORRUPT ENTITY RUN BY BLACK PEOPLE. 85 PERCENT OF EMPLOYEES ARE BLACK. THEY DISCRIMANTE AGIANST WHITES,HISPANICS AND ASIANS.

MARTA IS A DISASTER FOR GWINNETT.

DONT ASK GWINNET RESIDENTS FOR MONEY. IF YOU WANT TO EXPAND HERE THEN START WASTING YOUR OWN MONEY.

DONT DEPEND FOR GWINNETT FOR YOUR RETIREMENT PENSIONS- YOU LAZY MARTA EMPLOYEES.

I KNOW HOW LAZY YOU ARE, SINCE I WAS A OCCUPATIONAL MEDICINE DR IN ATLANTA FEW YEARS BACK AND YOU ALL USED TO COME TO ME FOR UNETHICAL WORK EXCUSES AND FALSE CLAIMS OF BACK PAIN.

SHAME ON YOU BOOKMAN FOR DISCUSSING THIS TOPIC. YOU PAY FOR MARTA IF YOU CARE SO MUCH

By EMMA

July 17, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Daddy always said “Sweetie when you finally get on your own always make sure you live near a grocery store and public transportation.” And for once I listend to my parent and it has always been one of my rules because I know if my car breaks down I can get a ride without depending on anyone and I won’t go hungry. As for the now my SUV is on hold with the gas prices. It takes $120+ a week to fill up twice. Being that I’m a single mother I opted for Marta which leaves me two blocks to walk to work and in the process I have lost 15lbs. D#!n I should have done it a long time ago and after visiting New York and hopping on and off the Subway all I could think of sure wish we had this in Atlana. So on that note I guess Gwinett is one place I’ll never live.

By Mike

July 17, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

So Bookman claims there is a code of conduct here?

Give me break. Folks like Hillbilly Ragger and Midori spew vile attacks all day and they seem to avoid scrutiny.

Of course Bookman has two standards. It’s core to his being. I think this type of intellectual dishonesty taints the entire AJC staff. That’s how they can look themselves in the mirror after costing their co-workers their jobs in the interests of pushing their liberal views. “It’s the critics who are biased!”

That’s OK. Hillbilly Ragger will always be around to hang out with Jay. As his sadly ceaseless posting demonstrates, he has nothing better to do.

By alan

July 17, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

I always wondered why mass transit systems in Europe was breathtakingly successful ahead of the ones in the US.

THE FACT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT HERE IN THE US, THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY PEOPLE WHO BASE THEIR ACTIONS ON IRRATIONAL FEAR. MAJOR REASONS WHY MASS TRANSIT SYSTEMS HAVE BEEN ABSENT IN MOST AREAS IN THE US ARE BECAUSE MOSTLY SOME RACE DON’T WANT OTHER RACES IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PROBLEM…AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE IF WE CONTINUE TO ACT AS IF CRIME IS A COPYRIGHT OF ONE RACE…

ALL these fears are baseless. Bank robbers, identity theives, child molesters, serial killers/rapists DON’T NEED MASS TRANSIT SYSTEMS TO COMMIT THEIR CRIMES.

THE SAME ATTITUDES OF BASELESS FEAR HAVE CONTROLLED MOST OTHER AREAS OF OUR LIVES, IN TERMS OF PROMOTIONS ON JOBS, WHO GETS A LOAN, WHO LIVES WHERE ETC.

THE SAME ATTITUDES OF BASELESS FEAR HAVE TURNED OUR COUNTRY INTO NOTHING MORE THAN A COLLECTION OF ETHNIC GHETTOS !!

I have always maintained that it is bigotry and racism that will be our demise, not terrorists.

alan

By @@

July 17, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Well howdy Get a Clue People:

I read your link. Kinda felt like I was being lectured on - as Jay would put it - my S-L-O-W-N-E-S-S, but anyhoo…

as a long-time resident of Clayton County, I was particularly interested in this from your link:

In Clayton County, where a working-class white population has given way to a large African-American majority over the past 15 years, suburbs that were lily-white and economically stable, if not especially affluent, are struggling with the effects of growing poverty and the replacement of a longstanding political structure by a new, less experienced one.

Black political power is still fresh in Clayton and DeKalb counties; it’s unlikely that a white candidate could win right now in DeKalb, and it’s inconceivable in Clayton.

How long are we in Clayton County gonna have to wait for the melding of which you speak? - this coming together if you will.

Are we ever going to elect our candidates based on competency or are African Americans going to continue to support only those candidates that are black?

I’ve got campaign signs in my yard that support both races, but only because I believe them to be competent, not “colored.”

In Tuesday’s primary 49% of our population voted for our current Sheriff who even the columnists at the AJC view as a buffoon. He has single-handedly done more damage to this county than any other politician save a recent good ol’ boy type who sought not to run because the white residents vowed to vote him out.

Down here the white residents are doing their part. When will the black residents get a clue?

Since you’re link mentioned restaurants, I wanted to give a shout out for Chanterelle’s Cafe on Evans Street in S.W. Atlanta. Granted I have to travel through some pretty seedy streets to get there but it’s well worth it. It’s the coolest place. A little hole in the wall - one side is picnic tables for casual diners, and right there within plain view is a little old guy dressed all in white with a towel over his arm waiting to seat patrons at one of four white tablecloth covered tables with candles.

The food is a yum yum experience.

By Black People

July 17, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

WOW Asian Against Marta Such hate, hope you don’t have kids. But since BP are so LAZY for some reason we find money to spend with your relatives in our communities. SOOOOO why don’t you come get your Asian Relatives out of our neighborhoods and take them back to Gwinnett with you!

By tony

July 17, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Geez, after reading these posts about MARTA in Gwinnett, I’m convinced Gwinnett is hell on earth.

By Jack

July 17, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

One key to the problem is metro Atlanta is 23 counties. Everyone thinks they are their own little island when it’s really one big city. You can call different parts different names, but it’s all Atlanta.

The solution. Merge into no more than 5 counties with the core 7 - 10 - Merge Fulton, DeKalb, Gwinett, Cobb, Douglas, Clayton, and Rockdale and possibly Cherokee, Henry, and Forsyth into 1 big county.

Look at LA - 3 times the population and 5 large counties. Phoenix - 1 or 2 counties. Dallas-Ft. Worth - 3 million of the 5.5 live in 2 (Dallas & Tarrant)

The county would have responsibility for functions that affect all the populous including transit. You have to realize too that the only way you are going to get rail lines to people quickly is alot of money upfront so it might take a 2cent sales tax or 1 cent sales tax plus some other funding perhaps a toll on commuters who already have transit as a viable option.

You can still have you separate cities to supplement county services such as your own police force, school district, etc.

This disjointedness has got to stop.

By ws

July 17, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

@ Asian against marta July 17, 2008 12:56 PM ,

Tell your Asian gangs to move out of Gwinnett !!

THEY POSE A FAR GREATER THREAT TO ME THAN MARTA EVER WILL !!!

WS

By @@

July 17, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

alan:

The buses and transit systems in Europe run on a 3 to 5 min. schedule. I hear Marta runs on a 30.

By GodHatesTrash

July 17, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Jay takes my posts down on a regular basis. I just don’t whine about it.

Of course, I’m not a whiney butt sissy either.

And remember, I’ve got the truth on my side, and the truth is always a good defense against slander charges. The historical record is proof of the ignorance, superstition, racism, homicidal violence, and arrogance of southerners… you really can’t slander someone who has a reputation as trash already.

So, since that shoe fits for the vast majority of you rightwingnuts, there you go!

By Midori

July 17, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

gee, Mike — I was mighty tempted to respond to some of your hate filled bile for some time, but chose not to.

I’d much rather watch you lash out in anger every time Jay slaps you in the mouth with cold, hard facts and logic.

Tres enjoyable.

By alan

July 17, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

@@ said, “The buses and transit systems in Europe run on a 3 to 5 min. schedule. I hear Marta runs on a 30.”

@@, this is an exact example of what I am talking about. It looks like you DO NOT even ride MARTA. YET, YOU BELIEVE IT RUNS ON A 30 BECAUSE YOU “HEARD” SOMEONE SAY IT. BUT IS IT FACT ? So how will a person like you vote, based NOT on your own “experience” but what you “hear”? It is these rumors that generate the baseless fears.

I too ride Marta. It runs on a 10-15. It is only on the weekends that it runs on a 20-30. But it certainly can be improved if we remove the bigotry factor and work together to improve on the system.

alan

By Midori

July 17, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Alan,

thank you very much for that cogent, reasonable 1:01.

The European mass transit system is a marvel to behold.

Will the US finally “get it”? What will it take?

By GodHatesTrash

July 17, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Now, now, whiner, relax.

Nowhere in my comment regarding resegregating the buses for the poor pathetic Gwinnettians do I say that everyone there is racist.

By Burb Boy

July 17, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

By Mrs. Godzilla July 17, 2008 11:33 AM | Burb Boy Since you are also not a native of Gwinnett County, perhaps you should practice what you preach and remove yourself to you own place of origin.

Dear Godzilla,

I guess I hit a nerve LOL. If you have some intelligence, please go ahead and refute any of my points instead of stating something that doesn’t add anything of value to this blog. However; I have always lived in the South thus my place of origin would be here!!! And I am not complaining about traffic or gas prices like YOU!!! So what am I preaching? OK let me help you then; you may be a little slow. Here are my points:

• We live in the suburbs, not in an urban setting or in a big metropolitan city like NY, DC, Chicago where mass transit is a necessity. Many people from the North have always used mass transit.
• If you don’t own a car OR can’t afford gas – why did you move so far from work? • Personal experience- when I lived in Sandy Springs, MARTA brought crime. This is why I moved to Gwinnett. • You are not a bigot if you don’t want MARTA. • Yes, Black people run away from Black people too. You will find many decent and honest African Americans who moved to Gwinnett to get away from crime. Why are so many African Americans moving to areas in Gwinnett that are predominantly white? Are they racist too??
• MARTA is not the silver bullet to solving all your problems. • Is MARTA going to bring more people to Gwinnett? Can our infrastructure support it?

People if you can’t afford to drive, MARTA is not going to fix your problem. Again, why are you living 50 miles away from work if you CAN’T afford it????? Tell me, did you assume that traffic was going to get better over time and that the cost of living was going to decrease??

By ITP guy

July 17, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Tony @ 1:14,

Take from a guy who has lived in Atlanta for 50+ years (40 ITP, 10 OTP in Gwinnett)Gwinnett is Hell on Earth!

By Me Again

July 17, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

To GaLiberal- I know you are not smart enought to realize it, but you made Gwinnett’s point for us. On one hand you comment that “timely operation and reliability” are huge problems for MARTA and they “abandoned efforts for clean safe and reliable trains” because of cost. Then you go on to say when you vote Republican (against MARTA in Gwinnett) you say we vote against our own best interests. I would like for you to explain how voting FOR a system that is, according to you, unreliable, not clean and unsafe is in our best interests? Typical liberal ranting…I know what is best for you better than you do.

By Jinx

July 17, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Wow, there is actually an Asian person in this country that can speak english. I see a pig flying.

By Mike Hussein S

July 17, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

To @@ Re: Down here the white residents are doing their part. When will the black residents get a clue? I think the majority black population in Clayton County should have as much freedom to be pinheaded buffoons as was given the white numbskulls who used to run the county. Maybe it will take 100 years or so, like it did for most black Southerners to get basic rights. Or maybe you whites could drop your attitude, form alliances with blacks and work for what is best for the county. Also, thanks Jay, Get a Clue and Hillbilly Ragger for directing our attention to the Governing article. Everybody should read it before sending in their next post.

By GodHatesTrash

July 17, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

And, as long as we are on the subject, the last time I checked (a couple of months ago), I’m banned from the Woo-ten Klan blog - I have been for about a year now, maybe more.

Thankfully, I’m an adult, so I don’t whine and sob like a 7 year-old girl about it.

By Reality

July 17, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Asian Against MARTA, you are a doctor and you do not know that “an” comes before vowels or words with begin with a vowel sound. You wrote in all caps, “SINCE I WAS A OCCUPATIONAL MEDICAL DR.”

By T

July 17, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know where the extremely angry By Asian against marta doctor works? You could be taking your children to see this man.

By Soulfinger

July 17, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Tsk Tsk Tsk, what a shame. I weep for the future.

By GodHatesTrash

July 17, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Well, I’ve rattled the cages, now the chimps will start throwing their poo on the plexiglass, beating their chests in outrage, perhaps come up with some cyberthreats to beat my a-ss, etc.

What fun. I’ve meetings this afternoon, I’ll check in later.

By Taxpayer

July 17, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Y’all type a little slower. This old southern boy is havin’ a hard time keepin’ up.

By WillM

July 17, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Stupidity alert!!!! Stupidity alert!!!!

More proof that so-called conservatism is a substitute for thought:

“why are you living 50 miles away from work if you CAN’T afford it????? ”

That’s very funny! And an excellent example of mental gymnastics .

By @@

July 17, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Well alan…..you don’t have to yell. O.K., so let’s put it at 12 minutes just to be fair. That’s 7 minutes longer when compared to Europe’s system.

And ‘scuse me. I’ve ridden Marta twice. Once there was a delay and I had to wait a loooooooooong time to board the bullet train. I prefer to get to where I wanna go on my schedule, not theirs.

Mike Hussein S:

So what you’re telling me is that revenge is theirs to enjoy regardless of whether it’s justified or not? Sins of the fathers and all that crappola? Rather odd coming from a progressive.

Or maybe you whites could drop your attitude, form alliances with blacks and work for what is best for the county.

Now why would you assume we’re not working together? There are the informed of all colors who work against the uninformed. I have no way of knowing what color they are cause I’m working more closely with the informed.

When I read (not post) at the Clayton Talk blog, it would appear as though the uninformed think the informed are uppity or somethin’. They seem to think we’re wealthy and self-absorbed.

By Taxpayer

July 17, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

I asked for y’all to slow down a little bit. The southern thing to do would be to comply with my request. Now, take a deep breath and type slower. After all, I can’t even type in stereo like old GHT can much less process it that way. I have to type in mono. I hear folks call it monotype. They calls that stuff from GHT — that fast stuff like it’s from a northerner or somethin’ — stereotype. I figure that means he uses two keyboards or two fingers or somethin’ like that. On a side note, it’s too bad that Mr. Wooten banned him. I would have figured him to be a natural over there. I guess that’s just another NewsFlash for me to process — slowly.

By headlook

July 17, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

car watch land pets day look girl red pets apple red home tom

By Corey

July 17, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

I hear the state is facing a deficit of perhaps 900 million. Remember when Atlanta’s budget deficit made the news. The racist vile, thugs this and thugs that. Blacks can’t run anything and on and on. I believe Sonny is white, and so is Cagle and Richardson and most of the legislature. Don’t get me started with the Georgia DOT. Blacks have never run that, but I hear of billions unaccounted for, projects that no one knows about, sexual harrassment, etc. Board member dating commissioner; gee, I don’t have an Egyptian scroll to list it all. The media here in Atlanta is a bigots best friend. Keep them concentrating on the indiscretions of black elected officials and ignore the imcompetence of white elected officials and paint a picture of white officials good, black officials bad. AJC, why we don’t see a blog about the state’s deficit? In addition, why do you have blogs that you know will bring out ugly vile from vicious bigots? Any topic that is remotely attached to a black person brings out the rabbid dogs. Have a nice day.

By NOWJUSTADANGBLAMEDMINIT

July 17, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

I live in Gwinnett and work in Smyrna. I used to work in Buckhead, but my company relocated. That extended my commute time considerably. I drive 75 miles a day, roundtrip. Would I use MARTA, HELL YES! However, my fellow Gwinnettians still think that a certain criminal element will find its way out to the safe confines and wreak havoc. Have you not sat on your patio or as you laid in bed at night and heard the sirens buzzing through the streets?? AND THAT’S WITH THE PEOPLE ALREADY LIVING THERE!!! You don’t just “happen” to be in Gwinnett. Criminals, although not the higher echelon of genius, aren’t as stupid to use MARTA as a means of escape. Sure there’ll be one or two “Willie Hortons” or “Barbie Bandits” on the train, but if there is an effective police presence, and JOBS for people to go too, problem addressed and solved. I can’t believe that fear still grips these soccer moms/dads. Most of the crime in Gwinnett comes from THESE families. How often do you hear, “They were such a nice family,” or “Stuff like that doesn’t happen here,” tell me how MARTA impacts that?? If those folks don’t want MARTA, then they can buy my gas and pay for the wear and tear on my car. How about that.

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

On occassion, I go to Gwinnett County for soccer games. It doesn’t take much analysis of the area to see that the county itself was bought up by developers who probably live in giant mansions in Alpharetta. The county is nothing but eco-friendly sounding subdivision after subdivision, ironically named things like Oak Creek or something like that - ironic because they probably cut down 150 oak trees and ruined nearby creeks to make the subdivision.

And don’t forget the hundreds of strip malls and convenience stores. That’s about it with Gwinnett County, no charm, no uniqueness, just concrete.

The citizens continue to elect county/city commissioners who’ve allowed developers to ruin the county, and make all involved richer than anyone can imagine. And yet, they complain about, or don’t want public transportation ruining the county. Sad commentary of life.

By alan

July 17, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

@@ — Let me make this clear…My typing in uppercase is meant for “emphasis”, and not for “shouting”.

I came to the conclusion that you don’t ride Marta from your own statement that “I HEAR it runs on a 30”. If you did ride it on constant basis, then nobody will have to tell you about the time it runs for you to know it runs on a 30. Everybody likes to get to where they want to go on their on schedule, not on some else’s.

The fact is that timing is not the issue because it can easily be fixed. If it can be done in Europe, then US can do it too. But in the US, the basic problem is that people OPPOSE MOST MASS TRANSIT SYSTEMS BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO SEE PEOPLE WHO AREN’T LIKE THEM IN THE SAME SYSTEM (including their neighborhoods) OUT OF IRRATIONAL FEAR.

Do you really believe Gwinnettians opposing Marta are doing so because of the time it runs ?

Also, the existence of a mass transit system that stretches to varying cities in our state WILL NOT MANDATE EVERY citizen to ride it. It just provides a viable alternative means of transportation for those WHO WANT TO use it, especially at a time when gas prices ARE LLITERALLY KILLING THE AVERAGE GEORGIAN’S POCKET.

But I disagree with Jay, because some of these folks will rather spend $200 week to fill their gas tanks than ride a transit system with or share a neighborhood with someone who doesn’t look like them.

alan

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Nowjustadangblameminut,

Lay off the soccer moms/parents/players. Why is it always their fault? What about the football, baseball, basketball, karate, dance, chess club, drama club, piano lesson moms/dads/parents?

Huh? Huh?

By Chris

July 17, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

I agree with Alan. I think MARTA should also start charging premiums for those commuters from counties not paying for MARTA, to park at MARTA facilities. So, if you have a Gwinnett license plate, and you want to park at a MARTA parking deck, you will pay a hefty premium. This would be your contribution to MARTA because you don’t contribute otherwise through a higher sales tax.

You have the choice, like your other compatriots in Gwinnett or Cobb of not using MARTA and paying $4.00/gallon for gas.

Simple but effective.

By Jinx

July 17, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

The problem will take care of itself, don’t worry. In the very near future, with all the job cuts and outsourcing, there won’t be any jobs to drive or ride the train to.

By professional skeptic

July 17, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Corey. Excellent point. Both the City of Atlanta and the State of Georgia are in a deficit situation, principally because tax revenues were lower than projected and costs rose faster than anticipated (i.e. construction materials, pension expense).

Yet somehow, Shirley Franklin is painted as a bad manager, but Sonny boy and the GA DOT are not.

In BOTH cases, I suspect a rigorous audit will reveal instances of lax internal controls at various levels. But that does not justify painting Shirley with a different brush than Sonny.

Now @@, here’s a thought in response to this utterance of yours:

I’ve ridden Marta twice. Once there was a delay and I had to wait a loooooooooong time to board the bullet train. I prefer to get to where I wanna go on my schedule, not theirs.

Oh really?? Well, I’ve driven on the interstates thousands of times. On countless occasions, I had to wait a looooooooooooong time to get to work or go home becuase wrecks, gridlock and construction on the interstates made me sit in bumper to bumper traffic going 5 mph when my commute should have taken only 20 minutes or so. I prefer getting where I wanna go on my own schedule, without having to sit in gridlock traffic every day. Man, I wish we had a comprehensive regional train system!

At least when there’s a delay on the train, I can read a book.

By ByteMan

July 17, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

@@: In Zurich (my last experience with intown transit European style), the streetcars ran on a 12-20 minute timeline, not 3-5 minutes. And they can do that consistently because they have the right-of-way in their portion of the street and woe be whoever gets in their way. Not quite like the way busses run here. BTW, trains between cities were every 90 minutes to a few times a day, depending on where you were going. And they served food on the trains and the train stations were often the center of commerce for the town. Very cool way to do things.

By MikeB

July 17, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, Professional, and Corey: I respect all your points, and in fact you may be better informed on the individual details than I. Do not doubt that. The last time I rode MARTA was in 2000.

It was not an unpleasent experience, but…….. I walked to the Candler Park station. If I had driven, I would have been worried if my car was going to be there when I got back, or if it would be broken into. I saw lots of window glass in the guttters of the parking lot and the platform smelled like urine.

I know they have CCTV, but I’m wondering how well it is monitored.

Every time I have seen a MARTA cop, the person has been so out of shape…… If something did happen, what is this person’s capacity to deal with an act of crime????? Furthermore, what kind of lame policies allow a person in this physical condition to be employed as a LEO. Who within MARTA is responsible here, and why do they allow this to continue…. Details I know, but This is what I pay attention to when I form my opinions about the value of MARTA in my community.

If I rode more, I guarantee that I could find more examples of missmanagment, ineffiency, and waste. I understand we as taxpayers fund via fed, and state dollars our road system. Other than the amount of trash/popped tires on the sides of our roadways, it’s a system that works. MARTA has not this track record of performance. In fact I will go so far as to say, any agency developed and promoted by the bureacrats of Fulton/Dekalb counties/City of Atlanta I will be skeptical of.

Some kind of regional initiative? I would be willing to look at this. It depends on the people involved and their track records though. If its the same old bureacrats trying to reinvent their careers at my expense, then no way.

So Corey, Hillbilly and professional as you can see, I am a reasonable person and am willing to put myself in your shoes to better understand your POV……. I hope you can do likewise in my Size 10EEE’s.

By Paul

July 17, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Hi Bosch

Earlier you’d asked me “So, just out of curiosity, do you consider our current systems of transportation inadequacies a threat to national security or no.”

No. But - (I know qualifiers drove ITN absolutely bonkers, but she saw with the righteous purity of an ideologue) the reliance upon foreign supply for some elements of the transportation system (oil) could constitute a threat.

Take away the oil represented by the Middle East - whether through a boycott or some other means - and the effect on our transportation system, and the ripple effects through the economy, would be severe.

Which is why I’ve said even if replacement technologies are more expensive than current systems we should develop them anyway.

By Taxpayer

July 17, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Well, there obviously has not been a single solitary Republican on here talking about riding MARTA. If there had been, they would have simply praised their Glock for its ability to keep them safe and secure wherever they went.

By SN

July 17, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Gwinnett will never have marta. The idea should be killed and move on , they dont want it. The people that want it would not get out to vote for it and the people that hate it will jump out there way and even miss work just to make sure they vote no for marta.

Chicago has the metra, nyc has long island rail road, philly has regional rail, that are separate from there subway systems. That is what gwinnet needs, commuter railroad that hooks to the city, and costs more to ride, so they dont have to worry about riding with the “riff raff/thugs/undesirable” crowd and loud crying babies, since that is there main complaint with marta most of the time. GRTA Xpress buses costs more than marta and is very peaceful , so a commuter rail that costs 5-6 round trip would be fine for gwinnett.

A line from Mall of GA or Gwinett place to downtown and Hwy78 area to downtown is the only 2 lines that would take cars off the road and give many people options and people would actually ride. Even though this idea would probably not happpen for atleast 20-30 yrs either like any other type of transit approval, this is the only type of idea i see being approved by this county.

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Hi Paul

My question was phrased a little on the rhetorical side.

No, your answer was exactly what I was looking for to see if you agreed, and we do.

I think people are way narrow on what defines national security.

Okay, here’s another question:

Would you support federal mandates requiring states build/improve/expand mass/public transportation systems?

Have standards in place, then tell the states, this is what you’ve got to get to, then say in so many years if not, then federal monies get cut?

Now, I’m usually an advocate for state rights, but I think this is too important to keep ignoring. But maybe that’s just the socialist in me coming out, who knows. But I do believe that racism plays a big part of the opposition, either intentionally or subconsciously, but it’s obviously there.

By Taxpayer

July 17, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Seven hundred and forty fugitives nabbed in North Georgia. Darn you MARTA.

By WillM

July 17, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Good observation SN, but I don’t think I’m quite as pessimistic as you about the time frame. I don’t think it will take 20-30 yrs., not with these fuel prices and esp. if the economic recovery after the current downturn is slow. And the fuel prices? They ain’t never coming back down.

Also, remember that much of the opposition is driven by generational factors. Once the grey-hair factions (who remember segregation from their childhood) are out of power and we get about another 300 k Yankee transplants, Asians, and Hispanics, the transition will happen quicker than you think.

By @@

July 17, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

But in the US, the basic problem is that people OPPOSE MOST MASS TRANSIT SYSTEMS BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO SEE PEOPLE WHO AREN’T LIKE THEM IN THE SAME SYSTEM (including their neighborhoods) OUT OF IRRATIONAL FEAR.

Are you sure about that? I’m down south of Atlanta in Clayton County where the population is 62+% African American. The only people riding the C-Tran to the Marta Station near the airport are apartment dwellers for the most part. Most of the apartment dwellers don’t seem to be riding it either since I only see less than a dozen riders on any bus I pass. I never see anyone waiting at the alternate bus stops - the ones not located near apartment complexes. The buses sure do screw up the traffic on our main thoroughfares though - stopping at those empty bus stops and all.

Also, the existence of a mass transit system that stretches to varying cities in our state WILL NOT MANDATE EVERY citizen to ride it. It just provides a viable alternative means of transportation for those WHO WANT TO use it, especially at a time when gas prices ARE LLITERALLY KILLING THE AVERAGE GEORGIAN’S POCKET.

I’m paying for it now, but I’m not using it. I’d like to opt out. Can you bullet train bombers offer me that opportunity? I’d appreciate it.

The fact is that timing is not the issue because it can easily be fixed.

It’s been around a long time so what’s taking so long?

But I disagree with Jay, because some of these folks will rather spend $200 week to fill their gas tanks than ride a transit system with or share a neighborhood with someone who doesn’t look like them.

I spend $90.00 a month. I work within 12 miles of my home. I share my neighborhood with people who don’t look like me. My time and homegrown vegetables too. Anything else they might need too. I’m not stingy unless it’s with government incompetency.

ByteMan:

Never been to Zurich. I was talkin’ about London.

I read somewhere that China was about to go online with the biggest rapid transit system in the world. Projected date 2012 (or was it 2025?)

Wonder if that’ll help cut back on their global emissions.

Oh……and alan

no matter what you say, it still looks LIKE YOU’RE YELLIN’.

By Reid in EAV

July 17, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

As a pro-transit, pro-city, lifelong Georgian CONSERVATIVE (not Republican, there’s a difference) living in East Atlanta… hoo boy, am I lonely.

Good think I don’t spend much time in comment sections like this, or I definitely would have moved somewhere more civilized. That day may yet be coming.

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

@@,

Yelling requires oral capabilities. This is written dialogue, so it is therefore impossible to “yell.”

It’s like when you write that you “say” something, well that’s actually not correct. You are writing it, not saying it.

By Mike Hussein S

July 17, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

to @@ — of course I’m not advocating revenge, I’m just explaining what freedom means. There are uninformed people everywhere, which is why Bush won the past two presidential elections. Thanks, Bosch, for your response on the Swiss trains. I overnighted about 3 miles out of Zurich once and really had little choice about times in and out of the city. Ditto for England. Once you leave London, it’s catch as catch can. But in neither place was I so eggheaded that I gave up on trains after two rides. They got me where I wanted to go cheaply. I once set on the tarmac at Hartsfield while Delta waited for the arrival from Ohio of a late plane carrying a steward to work my flight. I was on a train from Atlanta to Spartanburg, S.C., when a child got sick and we quit moving for 30-45 minutes. Stuff like that happens, but absolutely NOT with the mind-boggling frequently of wrecks/backups/etc. on I-85/Lawrenceville Highway/Stone Mountain Freeway/etc. It was so bad about 10 years ago that Bette Midler had to delay her concert at the old Omni until her audience arrived. And that was people trying to come INTO the city from the northside.

By professional skeptic

July 17, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

“I’m paying for it now, but I’m not using it. I’d like to opt out. Can you bullet train bombers offer me that opportunity? I’d appreciate it.”

@@, May I please have a prorated refund of my tax dollars that have been spent on the interstates, for all the days I’ve taken MARTA instead of driven my car? Do you think you arrange that for me? Cuz dang, I hate paying tax dollars for things I’m not using!

By Paul

July 17, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Bosch

First of all, I’d have to know the purpose of the mandates - not just the public trans system - but why? Any counter with reduction of vehicle use is reduction in petroleum is against the current system. I believe we’re going to see a wholesale change in vehicle systems in the next few years. Given it takes about nine years to replace half the vehicle fleet (and than means until a vehicle leaves service, not until you sell your car to someone and buy another) then the fossil fuel demand on the vehicle system would be greatly reduced.

If it’s to relieve congestion? Sounds like poor local planning to me. An example, where I live communities banded together and financed, through a sales tax, a mass transit system. Some communities opted out and were bypassed. Time passed, population shifted, gas went up and the communities wanted in. Guess what? Only if they’d pay the amount they would have paid from the inception. But the point is, take a community that’s been resistant, get fed mandates, which means fed monies, what you have is City X that resisted anything, now the situation develops so they want a crash course, or they don’t want but it’s a mandate, it means everyone outside City X contributes.

I do believe we already have millions in federal assistance going to local communities for mass transit projects, contingent upon local contributions (as with roadway projects) yet without the mandates.

I’ve seen Europe discussed - good to keep in mind, population densities are higher, distances are shorter, housing is much, much different (less suburbs as we have, more high density shared wall housing) and - this is important - even though mass transit was in place, as personal income rose private vehicle ownership also rose. So they had a situation where transit was in place and people opted for private vehicles. We have a system where the reliance is on private vehicles and we seek to supplement with mass transit. Interesting, eh?

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Mike Hussein S,

Twas not me who commented about the Swiss trains, but I agree with you and the European trains. Can’t speak for all countries, but the English, France, and German ones work well for me, wish we had that choice here.

By Paul

July 17, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Mike Hussein S 3:41

“There are uninformed people everywhere, which is why Bush won the past two presidential elections.”

So much for the myth the (ultra?)Left is neither condescending nor arrogant -

By CommunistAJC

July 17, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

JAY BOOKMAN, Are you nervous about the AJC layoffs? Just wondering.

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Good points, but I will add that most federal monies are given to the state for projects, not local communities. At least that’s been my experience.

Europeans? Yes, they have them, but drive them WAYYYY less than we do.

Thanks for your answer.

By Paul

July 17, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Y’know, Bosch, as I think about it more, I wonder what the criteria would be for which communities would have to implement. Some cities are congested and getting more so. Heck, they’re famous around the country for gridlock. There are some areas like the greater LA area that are essentially built out as far as surface roads. But there are also lots of urban areas that are not bad at all to get around in and the population isn’t expected to change all that much.

By Goldie

July 17, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Pee-eww! I’ve never lived in Gwinnett and now I know I’ll never want to live there! This blog is a stinkin’ cess-pool with all the hatred for those people who may want to use the MARTA train to get down to Turner Field or Phillips Arena to have some fun someday. Why, to read some of these posts, there’s absolutely no reason some people from Gwinnett should ever have to visit downtown Atlanta because Gwinnett has everything.

No wonder the state of GA is still struggling to come out of the 19th century — Gawwwly!

And pee-eww!

By @@

July 17, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Yelling requires oral capabilities. This is written dialogue, so it is therefore impossible to “yell.”

It’s like when you write that you “say” something, well that’s actually not correct. You are writing it, not saying it.

Thank you so much Bosch. I can’t begin to tell you how much your informative posts mean to me.

Mike Hussein S.:

Who knows buddy. I may have had relatives, long past who fought to secure the freedom of those who would make me pay by electing incompetent leaders over and over again. That’ll show me.

Unfortunately we ALL pay for their revenge.

Professional Skeptic:

Sorry buddy. Roads provide transport of our commerce. We all gotta pay for that. Let me know when Marta starts transporting toilet paper from Point A to Points unknown.

By Paul

July 17, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Bosch

My experience locally is the federal monies come in not just for a particular city’s mass transit project, but for a particular part of the mass transit project.

Now, if you want to talk about increased federal support for urban areas meeting certain criteria, absent mandates, that’s another topic.

Another factor: Europeans look at it as a national system. We’re big on state control - when it suits us! I could segue into another riff about how many liberals are really quite conservative when it comes to our education model (as you and I have discussed) but I’ll save that fun for another day.

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Criteria? Don’t know, I was just thinking out loud. Sometimes I get the thought in my head, but don’t know where to take it.

Sorry you went to all that trouble with a great response, and I don’t have much of a response back.

But I do think that there is no excuse for metropolitan areas like Atlanta to not have better systems in place - but despite that, Atlanta continues to grow, thankfully, not yet where I live - not yet anyway.

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

@@,

You’re welcome.

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Well, where I live we don’t have much of a public transport system, so no fed money comes in for that, I was talking in general - federal money, say for transporation, goes through the state.

“Now, if you want to talk about increased federal support for urban areas meeting certain criteria, absent mandates, that’s another topic”

Hmmmm. I don’t think I want to talk about that because I don’t even know what an absent mandate is :-)

Yeah! Education, we can save that fun for next week.

By Mike Hussein S

July 17, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

@@ — More attitude — your way or nothing! You gotta drop this thing that because you are on the losing side, other people are making you pay. It is their right to disagree. You can sit and fester or you can do something constructive to inform the uninformed. And thanks, ByteMan, for bringing up the Swiss trains.

By Paul

July 17, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Bosch

S’okay. I believe it’s called “having a discussion.”

By Morningstar

July 17, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

By Bosch July 17, 2008 2:25 PM And don’t forget the hundreds of strip malls and convenience stores. That’s about it with Gwinnett County, no charm, no uniqueness, just concrete.

You’ve hit the nail on the head Bosch. The money grabbers began to build and build and build heavily beginning with the ‘70’s. There were no zoning restrictions; hence, anything goes.

I lived in Gwinnett for years, and saw it all happening. All those who are so anti-transit system should just move to podunksville and you wouldn’t be bothered with us mere humans. Ohmygosh, you couldn’t take your job with you! Now that would be a problem.

It seems to me this (utilizing buses and trains) is another cog in the wheel of remedying our energy problem, and promoting a cleaner environment. Tis amazing to me that the train system seems to work so well for France, Germany et.al., and we’re so opposed to it here.

IMHO, as the middle class continues to fade into oblivion, more steps will be taken in this direction. It’s amazing how basic human needs will change a person’s thinking!!!!

By RW-(the original)

July 17, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Bosch,

Wouldn’t rail service through the metro counties just speed up our sprawl out toward your abode in Petticoat Junction?

It seems to me that a lot of Gwinnett residents that used to live in the country might want to move further out into Hall or Walton or somewhere like that, but don’t because of the commute if they work in town. Give them rail access in Gwinnett then they can move. Once they get moved we extend rail access into Hall and Walton so we can move them down to Oconee and so on. Pretty soon your General store/sushi bar is a MARTA station.

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Morningstar,

Yeah, my point was that people in Gwinnett County are so afraid that public transportation will ruin their county, well HELLO, look around people. Selling their souls to developers to turn it into a concrete jungle is somehow okay, oh, but NOOOOO on the buses and trains.

Paul,

This “discussion” will have to continue later. My couch is calling for a nap.

:-)

By Bosch

July 17, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

RW,

But we might get better sushi - I had to cut down on the catfish sushi. It was getting to me. I think Floyd wasn’t honest about what exactly was in there.

By JAY BOOKMAN

July 17, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Yes, Commie, I know you’re wondering.

Actually, I suspect “salivating” may be the better word. Don’t forget to swallow once in a while or you might drown in that stuff.

By Paul

July 17, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Bosch

See you later (figuratively speaking).

BTW - mandates that are absent are the best kind!

By professional skeptic

July 17, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

@@

When I pay for a roll of toilet paper, the cost of transportation is already built in, regardless of how it gets from manufacturer to the grocery store. Seeing my hard-earned tax dollars get spent on top of that to widen the downtown connector from 12 lanes to 24 lanes is just a double whammy I’d rather not endure, if it were possible for me to “opt out.”

Further, do you mean to suggest that the working professionals who take MARTA to work every day don’t also play a role in commerce? MARTA transports people to work, therefore it supports commerce just as the roads do.

Lastly, while roads support commerce to the extent they provide transportation for goods, one can successfully argue that the GRIDLOCK on our roads significantly detracts from commerce, in terms of the hundreds of thousands of wasted hours people spend in traffic each year, when they otherwise might be working, shopping or dining out.

Expansion of our rail system into a regional one would ease gridlock on our roads, allowing people to spend more time supporting commerce, rather than sitting for hours every day in 5mph traffic.

By Mike Hussein S

July 17, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Paul: That wasn’t condescension. It was merely my return of @@’s serve. Gotta go == HARDBALL is coming on.

By Kris

July 17, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Honestly if people in Gwinnett don’t want MARTA then don’t give it to them. If they like paying high gas prices to fill up their SUV’s and Trucks then let them. Gwinnett county is quickly becoming a Suburban waste land and if they are too rascist or ignorant to know what is good for them then screw them.

MARTA should focus it’s expansion efforts in the city of Atlanta and places where people are smart enough to realize that having access to mass transit is a good thing. Gwinnett sucks anyway - keep those rednecks out of Atlanta!

By Paul

July 17, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Mike Hussein

Thanks for the clarification. Coming on the heels of a few days of following the comments on the New Yorker cover, well, it kinda followed some of those attitudes (we get it, sniff, but those poor, uneducated rural masses, well, it’ll just reinforce their bigotry!).

I try to stay out of crossfire.

Still finishing up some stuff - I find DVR and fast forward gets me through the news shows quickly in the evening -

By Morningstar

July 17, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Did anyone see Larry King last evening? Excellent dialogue regarding air travel.

I seems to me we’d do well to again gravitate to use of trains for travel. Sure they don’t move as fast, but we need to slow it down a bit anyhoo.

This may be another cog in the ‘solution wheel’ to help remedy our conjestion and energy concerns. It’s gonna take a lot in addition to drilling. Drill as long as it’s made as safe as possible, but take gigantic steps to develop alternative sources. Companies can also ‘get a grip’ and alter employees work week to 4 day, 10 hour days. Companies can also ‘get a grip’ and let more employees telecommute.

Companies can also ‘get a grip’ and cut out some of the excessive, IMHO, business travel! Some of this, depending on the company is an absolute necessity, but sending hot shots all over the globe for a glorified vacation, i.e. training, is rediculous. No, I didn’t say this was never necessary.

Another of my pet peeves are those big school buses with 5 kids on them. These are usually the few kids who can’t afford cars, or their parents have enough sense not to buy them a new corvette for their 16th birthday. Again, sometimes it’s a necessity for a child to drive, but not because they think it’s a negative to ride the big cheese. If safety is an issue, well, we do have a great problem with parents who don’t know how to parent. Don’t know how you’d handle that one. Good luck!!!

Safety wasn’t a problem when I was growing up. If a child slugged another child on the ‘big cheese,’ said child was reported to the parent by the bus driver, and the parent took the little culprit to the woodshed, if you know what I mean.

It worked! We’re too busy trying to help everyone self analyze and ‘find your inner child’ in the classroom and in daily life. Again, good luck!

By Bud Wiser

July 17, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

I think that you guys have given Jay a migraine; it appears that he has taken the afternoon off; either that or his Dimmokraut Politik Bureau has closed for the evening.

By Taxpayer

July 17, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

It looks like some of that slowness rubbed off on Mr. Bookman today. When was the last time you went over 200 posts and/or 10 weekday daylight hours before changing topics?

By @@

July 17, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Mike Hussein S:

Why would you attribute mine to attitude and theirs to freedom. Look…….we’re doing the best we can down here. BTW, it’s funny you would mention my way or no way.

Sheriff Hill is notorious for repeating that mantra. Millions of dollars in lawsuits against OUR county ‘cause he can’t have his way. I’m paying for those lawsuits. The majority of voters who supported Sheriff Hill in the recent primary are from the north end of the County, Riverdale. I’m from the south end. Crime is rampant in Riverdale, but they like him because he has inmates clean up their roadways while he sits on 20,000 outstanding warrants which are his job to serve.

Hopefully more than 12% of our populace will turn out for the run-off election and put his little butt out. I’m not holding my breath though. We’ve already voted out the good ol’ boys. Now it’s everybody’s responsibility to get rid of the incompetents and pick up their own litter.

Professional Skeptic:

Expansion of our rail system into a regional one would ease gridlock on our roads, allowing people to spend more time supporting commerce, rather than sitting for hours every day in 5mph traffic.

or blogging while they work waiting for the 5 minute delay before their post appears? Are you working today Skeptic? Wasting your employer’s time? Have they built your time wasted into the cost of the product/service you sell?

So whatever happened to carpooling? A friend of mine works for an employer who has procured passenger vans to pick up their employees at various locations. Kinda like a little marta that I don’t have to pay for ‘cause I don’t use what they produce.

FYI, the Lovejoy Train Station will be within a few miles of where I live. I’ll adapt, but I don’t have to like it…..I don’t have to ride it.

I will, however expect a thanky…….thanky…..thanky for my contribution. Taxation without representation of how I feel about the whole dang thingy.

By Annie T.

July 17, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

I think Marta is good for Gwinnett’s motorist who need to cut back on gas.

They should ride Marta to work and back. And they will save money and be happy.

And everything will be perfect. Everything good, nothing bad.

Like it always is.

By Paul

July 17, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

@@

I have representation and I still get taxation!

Lots and lots and lots of it.

Can’t win for losing -

By bdatlanta

July 17, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

I bet Hannity is feeling besmirched right now…..lol

By Butt Geyser

July 17, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Hey Glenn. STFU you idiot.

U R the biggest idiot on both blogs sideways coming and going, and give it a twist on the way up.

moron.

“Duh, I can blog really good and Everyone reads the stuff I write cause I’m relevant, duhhhh”

RETARD!!!!

By WillM

July 17, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Actually, I’ve observed that something weird happens oh after about 150 posts or so. The tone of the discussion not only becomes civil, it suddenly turns jovial. What’s going on?

By NO MARTA

July 17, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

No … criminals don’t take MARTA to commit the crime, but have any of you yahoos ridden MARTA to and from work. You are amongst stinking people . . crude and rude … not to mention those who peddle their goods from one car to another (bootleg DVDs, perfumes??? and the likes). Criminals don’t take MARTA to commit their crimes but I dare any of you to ride MARTA day in and day out for any length of time. I was harrassed by blacks (the only white in one of the cars on the train) not once but at least three times to the point I feared for my life!!! Thank God I no longer work downtown and don’t have to deal with it!!! It will only serve a segment of our society … I prefer to call it the train from HELL!!!

By Paul

July 17, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

WillM

The Obama Effect.

Someday the FarLeft will catch on.

and not to forget The McCain Effect.

Someday the FarRight will catch on. But there’s fewer of them than on the FarLeft.

By N-GA

July 17, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

There are several reasons why people in other counties (particularly Europe) use public transportation instead of private automobiles for routine transportation needs.

Consequently bicycles, scooters, trains, subways, etc. are the most common mode of transport.

In Copenhagen, people who live outside the city take the train into town, then unlock their bikes from a storage rack near the station and go to work returning in the evening to lock their bike up again. The bike racks near the train station are 2-high, and the bike lanes throughout the city are separated from the automobile lanes by a low curb.

By @@

July 17, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Paul:

You and me both. As long as the little people get theirs, who the heck cares about those of us who they so desperately need to give it to ‘em.

My phone was ringing off the hook the day after the primaries protesting the outcome. The best advice I could offer them was “Calm down. It ain’t over till it’s over.”

“And when it’s over, they’ll have to move on.”

Unfortunately, I’m afraid that’s exactly what they’ll be doing - taking a big hit on their property values, moving on by moving out.

By N-GA

July 17, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

I have no excuse for the typos (too numerous to list) in my 5:57 post! Some weren’t even typos…they were mistakes of another kind. I think it’s time for happy hour!

By professional skeptic

July 17, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

or blogging while they work waiting for the 5 minute delay before their post appears? Are you working today Skeptic? Wasting your employer’s time? Have they built your time wasted into the cost of the product/service you sell?

Hussein:

No, no, no, and N/A

But thanks for the off-topic comment nonetheless. Shall we now debate the opportunity cost of the time people waste looking for relevant commentary amidst all the off-topic drivel?

By @@

July 17, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Heck Skeptic! You wanna force me under the Marta rail but I’m not forcing you to read my stuff.

It’s called freedom to choose.

Why do you feel obligated to search?

Whatcha lookin’ for?

My support?

Both personal and financial?

By CommunistAJC

July 17, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

JAY BOOKMAN, No not salivating. Hate it when people lose their jobs. I just read an article about the AJC letting people go. And no, I’m not sitting around hoping you get canned.

By Paul

July 17, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

N-GA

Typos? I was concentrating on the cool-looking indentations.

I’d read an article stating as most Europeans have one car, it has to fulfill a multitude of roles - okay, it was probably a Saab article. The did a hatchback design for a while - it was great - I’d borrowed one, put the back seat down and loaded in 8 card tables and 32 folding chairs. US car mags panned the design. GM took over and killed the hatchback. About a year later Japanese came out with some similar designs and all I read was “innovation, forward thinking, etc ad nauseum.”

BTW - Ford announced they were killing the V8, going to a direct injection turbocharged system. Good power, much better mileage. Made a big deal about it. I thought, here we go again with the new advances - Saab’s been doing that for years and years.

What I would give for a decent bike path…

@@

Chin up! Time for Monty Python and “Always Look on the Bright Side of Life” -

By N-GA

July 17, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Paul,

It is interesting that you would note the indentations. When I wrote the post I used numbered paragraphs.

And then a miracle happened….

I’m starting to understand how Bernadette Soubiroux felt in 1858.

By N-GA

July 17, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Paul,

BTW, I bought a large, fresh brisket today. Let me see…good quality rub, aluminum foil, 225 degrees, 15-16 hours then voila!

Now I’m going to search the web for the recipe of a good rub!

By Paul

July 17, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

N-GA

To have a glimpse of comprehending the sublime - nice way to end the day.

Me, I’m off to try my hand at a green curry with basil. Always put a couple plants in the herb area, makes all the difference. That, and spearmint for Mojitos -

By @@

July 17, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Chin up!

Always Paul. It costs me nothing so how can I lose.

When the uber-left acts desperate, I’m always amused.

By AeroNautica0909

July 17, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Interesting article… I can say that I’ve heard an argument about mass transit being a waste of taxpayers’ dollars. It’s very much a flawed argument and it can be disproved logically. Here’s my logical reasoning on why this argument is false.

First, let’s observe these undeniable facts: Gas prices are high and more and more people are riding MARTA and riding GRTA’s XPress buses to save money on gas and parking. This is apparently evident as traffic patterns on the interstate has changed dynamically from a year ago and beyond.

Now, for the logical reasoning:

Given that we have observed all of these undeniable facts, we can deduce that since Xpress is mass transit and it has been getting increased ridership because of the increase in gas prices, it infers that more people are parking their cars at Park and Ride lots because of those increased gas prices. Since the people are flocking to the buses in mass numbers and ridership on MARTA has increased, all as a result to higher gas prices, this logically leads to increased services to handle the increasing demand, (which results in increased capacity in the form of more buses and trains) on these transit systems, in which these services will require money, which is paid for by taxpayer dollars. Since taxpayers’ dollars are used to increase service and capacity due to increasing demand on these transit systems, it is evident that the taxpayers’ dollars are at work (Xpress, for example, has started a few new routes in the last year and has put more buses out on the road and they need more to keep up with increasing demand.) Therefore, we can conclude that this is a good use of taxpayers’ dollars. However, the argument that was given is mass transit would be a waste of taxpayers’ dollars. The argument and the conclusion deduced by logical reasoning are different, hence we have a contradiction.

Simply put, because gas prices are high, people are using alternate forms of transit. There are more buses and trains running than this time last year or beyond. More and more people are on buses and trains to save money. Places like Gwinnett and other suburban counties need to realize that we can no longer stay without a regional mass transit system. It is time for all of us to work through differences and think about the good of the entire region.

By JAY BOOKMAN

July 17, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

I appreciate it, Commie. Others have not been so thoughtful. Tough times in this business, but I guess the same is true for autoworkers and construction folks and these days even some of those in high finance, etc.

We’ll get through it.

By N-GA

July 17, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

@@,

I think you’ve identified the key difference(s) between ideologies.

For my part, when the uber-left acts desperate, irrational and hateful, I’m disappointed. However, when the uber-right acts desperate, irrational and hateful, I’m not surprised.

By @@

July 17, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Gedouttaheah N-GA!

Look ^^^ UP.

Heck! I’m amused by both.

It’s there if’n you wanna find it.

Pay closer attention to the uber-leftists. Your eyes are deceiving you…..you old billy goat, you.

By @@

July 17, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

I think this is why McCain’s surrogate referred to Obama’s ME trip as a campaign rally.

He just wasn’t that into them before.

By donald

July 17, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

I lived in Gwinnett, specifically Duluth from 1987-2005. In 1990, there was a similar vote for a 1 cent sales tax to fund a MARTA rail line system. Due mainly to the efforts of the KKK, the proposal lost by a 3-1 margin.

In 2005 I moved from Gwinnett to Downtown Atlanta not because of crime but because the traffic was choking my quality of life. I haven’t regretted a day since!!

People of Gwinnett, it’s time to face the fact that you’re in the 21st century!! No matter how much asphalt you lay, it will never be enough. You’re killing yourselves with stupidity. Just think, if the rail line had been built near GPM with a park and ride, some of your traffic woes would be fixed. Now you folks move farther and farther away to get away from the ‘rif-raf’. Well guess what? These cretins will follow you anyway, train or no train!!

I laugh at you folks!! I go to work and get home in 20 minutes or less and if I get a job downtown I’ll be able to walk to work.

People, get your heads out of the sand because you’re NOT special!!

By GaLiberal

July 17, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

To Me Again: Evidently you are too ignorant to grasp the larger concepts here, but I’ll try to explain them. I’ll go very slowly so you can keep up. First, I was acknowledging that MARTA has serious a PERCEPTION problem that it is mismanaged. This PERCEPTION is driven by actual problems with the system that need to be and can be fixed. You Rethuglicons convinently use these problems as an excuse to vote your bigoted and ignorant views.

Second, you did vote against your own best interests. As the metro area population increases, traffic problems will only get worse. You need to build mass transit now so it will be there BEFORE the roads are clogged with traffic. You can only pave over so much land for roads. I know you can’t fathom these concepts given your short attention span, but give it your best shot.

When you vote Rethuglicon,you vote against your own best interests. And Me Again is living proof.

By professional skeptic

July 18, 2008 6:37 AM | Link to this

@@:

I’m not forcing anyone under any rail; rather I’m derailing a few of the most commonly spouted arguments against mass transit that don’t hold any water when subjected to analysis and scrutiny.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I do have to go to work today— you know, to support commerce and all— so I’m off to catch the MARTA train. I’ll be sure to log in at lunch to let everyone know if I see any criminals or thugs with stolen sofas or TVs.

By jasper

July 18, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

forget the crime. What about schools. None of the top 50 high schools in GA are located inside the perimeter. 95% of Marta is inside the perimeter. Draw your own conclusions.

By Lill-Karin Bryant

July 18, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Given the high price of gasoline and the problems communting in the metro area one would think that everybody including gwinnett citizen would race on board of a MARTA system.But as we know,old Habits die hard and they voted against it.In a way I am glad they did because Gewinnett County has by far more social problems and crime than perhaps the City of Atlanta and we really don’t want the riffraff of that county to hop on MARTA and come to Atlanta.As a matter of fact I think MARTA should not reach past the Airport to keep the Clayton County criminals out or we will all need guns to protect us when heading for the airport.

By Lill-Karin Bryant

July 18, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Given the high price of gasoline and the problems communting in the metro area one would think that everybody including gwinnett citizen would race on board of a MARTA system.But as we know,old Habits die hard and they voted against it.In a way I am glad they did because Gewinnett County has by far more social problems and crime than perhaps the City of Atlanta and we really don’t want the riffraff of that county to hop on MARTA and come to Atlanta.As a matter of fact I think MARTA should not reach past the Airport to keep the Clayton County criminals out or we will all need guns to protect us when heading for the airport.

By Lill-Karin Bryant

July 18, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Given the high price of gasoline and the problems communting in the metro area one would think that everybody including gwinnett citizen would race on board of a MARTA system.But as we know,old Habits die hard and they voted against it.In a way I am glad they did because Gewinnett County has by far more social problems and crime than perhaps the City of Atlanta and we really don’t want the riffraff of that county to hop on MARTA and come to Atlanta.As a matter of fact I think MARTA should not reach past the Airport to keep the Clayton County criminals out or we will all need guns to protect us when heading for the airport.