Home > Jay Bookman > Archives > 2008 > July > 09 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.US“Have you no sense of decency?”
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
In his column today, Leonard Pitts bemoans the shamelessness of those who accuse John McCain of betraying our country because, under extreme torture 40 years ago, he read a North Vietnamese propaganda statement in front of television cameras:
“Maybe I am hypersensitive, maybe just old-fashioned by the standards of an era that regards earnestness as a character flaw. Still, it strikes me as viscerally wrong, offensive at the mitochondrial level, to trivialize, demean or diminish, particularly for political gain, a man’s service and sacrifice on behalf of his country.”
Some of you may have seen posters on this blog launch attacks on McCain just like those described in the column. Well, I’m wholeheartedly with Pitts on this one. It’s vile, it’s wrong and it ought to be stopped.
Would conservatives be doing the same thing, even more so, if the Democratic candidate had a similar history. Absolutely. The shameful and well-organized attacks on John Kerry — the fake Purple Hearts at the GOP convention, for example — make that perfectly clear. I was at that convention, and it disgusted me.
But that doesn’t make it right. Not in any sense of the word. As Pitts put it:
“… it seems to me that something has gone haywire in a nation that forgets how to revere the service of military men and women, political expediencies and affiliations be damned, a nation where a Max Cleland can leave three limbs in Vietnam, yet have his patriotism questioned or a John Murtha can serve as a Marine for 37 years, yet be called a coward.”
Amen. Grow a sense of decency, people.
Comments
By Bosch
July 9, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Unfortunately, some are so partisan they are blind to their hypocrisy. They always seem to have an “excuse” or cite propaganda as a means to justify their misguided anger.
By Bud Wiser
July 9, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Good one, Jay.
Doubtless the attacks come from the cowardly few who have: (a) never served their country in any capacity whatsoever, and are totally clueless as to what it entails or means (b) are so filled with hate for G Bush that it has blinded them to reality (c) idiots with nothing better to do than sling their vile spittings.
If I were a betting man, I’d put the percentages as: (a) 40% (b) 40% (c) 20%
I have no over/under for anyone who falls into a combination of the three.
By Maniac is accurate
July 9, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
The politics of recent years has been a landscape in which there is no shame in using absolutely anything against an opponent and it’s OK. In fact, it’s a dishonest game both parties play to try to turn the other side’s positives into flaws. It’s disgusting.
Grow a sense of decency. Good one.
By Sam
July 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Mitochondrial Level? Glad you like the material. feel free to steal. Too bad the phrase is completely innapropriate here, Pitts, you hack.
We can only remember that W deserted his post in time of war, and he spearheaded a swiftboat campaign of both McCain and Kerry. There’s not one shred of paper with Bush’s name on it during his time in the guard. Not. One.
The shame of it smears W’s administration down to the Mighty Condolisa Rice level.
Pitts needs to remember that a conservative’s values are not measured by how many unfurled flags he flies, but by how many flies he unfurled for phags.
Stalwart GOP stall wart Sen. Craig proved that, and you all know it. Pitts, you’re the pits. How dare you question anyone’s right to question anyone’s right. HOW DARE YOU!
Y It’s wrong at any level.
Mitochondrial level. What a dope, honestly.
I have here a list of 52 journalist on the AJC who are morons. I’ve got their names, and the blogs subcomittee trolls will get them in due time, and the investigation continues for just how little talent exists in the ranks of the AJC. I’d like to say more, but will reserve the comments for the hearings….
By Bosch
July 9, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Bud Wiser,
So I’m assuming the people who wore the fake Purple Hearts at the convention or called Max Cleland unpatriotic fall into category “c”
By Bud Wiser
July 9, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Bosch: probably. I don’t see that I catagorized those folks by political parties, but since you brought it up…..I have a good site for you to read and comment upon.
it is: http://tncwatch.com/2008/05/obamas-not-exactlys.html
I for one appreciated Max Cleland for his patriotic service; however, one must remember that Lee Harvey Oswald was also a Marine. There is just no accounting for people and their strange ways, is there?
By Bud Wiser
July 9, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Jay, you wrote: Some of you may have seen posters on this blog launch attacks on McCain just like those described in the column. Well, I’m wholeheartedly with Pitts on this one. It’s vile, it’s wrong and it ought to be stopped.
I disagree. I disagree because it allows the intelligent among us to more easily identify the morons. Once they let flow their crap about McCain, it pretty well shows what kind of mindless idiots that they are. The complete inability to communicate because of the hate that swirls in their tiny minds with nothing more than the cruel, absurd, and untrue shows the readers who to avoid in the future.
By Bosch
July 9, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
Bud Wiser,
“The complete inability to communicate because of the hate that swirls in their tiny minds with nothing more than the cruel, absurd, and untrue shows the readers who to avoid in the future”
Kind of describes how I feel about the article you posted.
By swolf4810
July 9, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Yet another reason I wonder if running for President ought not to be strike one in a prima-facie case for insanity. Beyond that, what was done to John Kerry and his military record, and now this attempt to denigrate John McCain’s service is nothing short of disgusting. Anyone who would resort to such tactics is NOT a patriot and they most certainly ARE NOT ‘helping’ our country…….and that applies be they Republican or Democrat, conservative, moderate, or liberal.
By GodHatesTrash
July 9, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Let’s face it - the rightwingnuts have the morals of snakes and are accomplished character assassins. Talk radio and Fox News are in the lie and fear spreading business.
It’s stupid to go to a flamethrower fight with a box of matches. John Songbird McCain has plenty of scum-spreading snakes on his team that are attacking everything and anything and making up lie after lie about Obama - he just hired a Rove disciple to run his campaign, for Gawd’s sake - so let McCain reap the whirlwind.
Picking those kinds of people to associate with is, after all, a reflection on his personal character. And then, you have to think, if he’s willing to sell his soul now, when did he start the sale? So maybe, the Hanoi John thing…
By Sam
July 9, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
W swiftboated McCain in 2000. W invented the angle about McCain reading enemy propaganda in NAM.
W did. It’s on video. Check it out.
What is important here, is that during the confrontation, when McCain called W out on the smear, W fired back at McCain and McCain wilted in front of the cameras. If you’ve ever wondered who would win a battle of wits between dweedle dumb and dweedle dee, well……
Anyway, no presidential material should wilt under counter attack.
Proves it.
Pitts is simply wrong. Let him learn our history, and then let him learn to write.
Then maybe I’ll respect him. Fair ‘muff?
By Sam
July 9, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
W swiftboated McCain in 2000. W invented the angle about McCain reading enemy propaganda in NAM.
W did. It’s on video. Check it out.
What is important here, is that during the confrontation, when McCain called W out on the smear, W fired back at McCain and McCain wilted in front of the cameras. If you’ve ever wondered who would win a battle of wits between dweedle dumb and dweedle dee, well……
Anyway, no presidential material should wilt under counter attack.
Proves it.
Pitts is simply wrong. Let him learn our history, and then let him learn to write.
Then maybe I’ll respect him. Fair ‘muff?
By RealityKing
July 9, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
All’s fair in politics.
By getalife
July 9, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Thank you Clinton for voting no on Fisa.
Today, all those who fought and died for our freedom, died in vain.
obl has changed our country and won.
Never, ever trust these criminals.
Disband both parties.
Clinton should lead the new party for the people.
By Bud Wiser
July 9, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
Well Bosch, the truth is pretty stark, isn’t it?
I guess you have shown which category you fall into. Shame of it is that I thought for a moment we could at least have an intelligent discussion.
Which part(s) of the article did you find to be lies, untrue, or just ‘made up?’ It all is pretty well documented, but like the liberal true to his roots, when confronted by FACT, you either shrink or resort to insults. Pretty small.
By Freedom
July 9, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
Oh my gawd!!! Even the NEW YORK TIMES is bashing Obama. As he shifts like a chamelion on issue after issue, some of the Obama idol worshippers are starting to take notice. I still think he’s gonna win in November, but I get a sneaking feeling that, like a Hollywood celebrity, the more he is built up by his supporters as a demigod, the more spectacular will be his fall—-it will be fun to watch.
By GOPs got to go
July 9, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
What I find hard to believe is that anyone in thier right mind would read, listen or care about ALL of the stupid, petty garbage the Captain Insanos have to say, on BOTH sides.
As Republicans go, McCain is a lesser evil. They could have done worse, Jeb maybe, as JW suggested.
It was and still is shameful. What was said about Kerry and McCain.
By Dusty
July 9, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
I agree that vile propaganda against a tortured American POW is the lowest form of propaganda. But..just mention it and you usually get the ‘freedom of speech’ bit.
Unfortunately, the practice of vile propaganda has been used so much that Americans are exhauted from reading scummy lies. Families of nominees endure insults and conjured grievances. Very few people expect to find integrity in news, blogs, or books. It is hard to recognize the truth anymore because skepticism is now inbuilt.
The one “bone” I would pick with Pitts is his complaint about Murtha. Murtha turned against American troops himself and his accusations are on written file. If he is mentally ill, then OK. But I don’t think he is.
Ignore “Sam” here. It is just PoFo acting up again.
By getalife
July 9, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
REV. JACKSON TRASH TALKS OBAMA: ‘CUT HIS N**S OUT’
Good luck finding them Jesse.
Anyhoo, anybody that has been tortured should not be in any office except a shrink office.
He will end Social Security and called it a disgrace, so he lost the senior vote.
Both are sure losers.
By Taxpayer
July 9, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
I agree with you Mr. Bookman. I suppose there are some out there possibly seeking revenge for past transgressions but there’s no need to stoop to that level especially when there is so much out there that is fair game. What about that temper of McCain’s? And that foul mouth — even with his second wife. I know many conservatives here in Georgia that just don’t take to that type of behavior from anyone — much less a Senator and Presidential candidate.
By RW-(the original)
July 9, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
Talk about the big lie theory run amok.
Please show some evidence of Max Cleland being called unpatriotic. His support of union protection for homeland security workers was a fact. It was the opinion of Saxby Chambliss that union protection would make it easier for shadowy enemies to operate. That’s the kind of contrast we need when electing our leaders. Saying that was calling Cleland unpatriotic could have straight from the teachings of Mein Kampf.
By Sam
July 9, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
RW is doing the best she can…….
Pitts uses that word Mitochondrial alot. I dont think it means what he thinks it means.
By Bosch
July 9, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
Bud Wiser,
For one thing I fall into neither of your categories because I have nothing but respect for anyone who has served in the military and would never bring their service into question during a political campaign.
Sorry, but to as your link to a rhetorical laundry list of complaints against Obama, which have nothing to do with the topic, all of which are taken out of context, deserves such a reaction. I’d have the same reaction if you’d posted a rhetorical laundry list or rhetorical nonsense against McCain as well.
If you’d like to have an intellectual conversation about something, post something intellectually stimulating, or pick a specific topic.
By RW-(the original)
July 9, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Bosch,
Not to get in the middle of your spat with Bud Wiser, but you might want to check with Bookman before you offer to hijack his blog for a discussion of the topics of your own choosing. This isn’t the scribbler’s blog and some of these hosts want you to stay somewhat on topic.
By Mike
July 9, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
“Would conservatives be doing the same thing, even more so, if the Democratic candidate had a similar history. Absolutely. The shameful and well-organized attacks on John Kerry — the fake Purple Hearts at the GOP convention, for example — make that perfectly clear. I was at that convention, and it disgusted me.
But that doesn’t make it right.”
Then why bring it up? To remind us that you are a hyperpartisan who can’t put pen to paper without a Tourette’s-like attack on conservatives?
What’s the difference between Sean Hannity and Jay Bookman? One is a conservative, the other is a liberal. The rest is pretty much the same.
By Hillbilly Deluxe
July 9, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
Regardless of one’s political stripe you can’t really say how you’d behave as a POW unless you’ve been one.
By Bud Wiser
July 9, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
Well said, Hillbilly. It kind of puts things in perspective, when some only want to trash out the other side.
I see Obama voted for the FISA bill, and a pretty overwhelming vote it was. Hillary at least held her ground and voted against it (only 28 nays total), demonstrating some backbone the presumptive nominee lacked. I only say that to further demonstrate Obamas apparent lack of being able to stand on two feet simultaneously, without shifting from one to the other. McCain took the easy way out and did not vote at all.
Personally, I supported the bill. Unless you have Al Qaeda on speed dial, you should have nothing to worry about.
Iran tests missles today, the price of oil rises. Get ready, there’s a storm a brewin’.
By ByteMan
July 9, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
@Mike: If you can’t tell the difference between Hannity and Bookman, I gotta bridge to sell you.
Here’s a quick clue: Hannity screens his calls to make sure they agree with him most of the time — or to be relatively clueless if they disagree with him so that Sean can run rings around them and hang up on them before they can score any points. The intent is to make it seem like Sean’s the smartest, most patriotic, “bestest” guy in the room.
Bookman doesn’t appear to care if you agree with him or not or what you think about him. Otherwise, you would have been hung up on long ago.
By trusslady
July 9, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
I guess I’m one of the small minded people. McCain is running on his record/history of being the great defender of the US. Remember “I didn’t love my country” remarks? Sorry, if McCain could find and use a “propaganda” speech by Obama, he’d do it in a hearbeat.
By Redneck Soup
July 9, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
McCain 08: How could Kerry’s Vietnam be a liability, and McCain’s Vietnam be an asset? Ask Cheney, W, and Rove.
Dan Rather was brought down trying to dig into W’s service record. I fear the power that made it impossible to find on shred of evidence that W was on the planet during his supposed duty.
People, we need to find out who did this to Rather, and who did what to W’s paper trail.
Where are the journalists? Where is the investigation? Do you realize how high up you’d have to be to destroy military records? and driving arrests? That cuts across several different layers of authority, people. That is as high up as a fascist can get.
I demand to know where W was during nam. Where’s the outrage? Come on! Get mad!
By Billy
July 9, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
Mike, one difference between Bookman and Hannity is that Jay is speaking out here, defending McCain and calling people out on their dirty tactics. I don’t recall Hannity (or Colmes, for that matter) ever really going to bat for Kerry.
By aaron humes
July 10, 2008 6:32 AM | Link to this
Like his liberal colleagues, Bookman demonstrates here again the gross inability to report facts.
McCain shows the voting public credable facts, such as his P.O.W. internment. Factless in the voting booth is what created the pathetic liberals who now pen articles.
I still want to know what Obama means about “running for change”. (Dimes, quarters, pennies?) At least we know which of the two presidential candidates has been war tested.
Fact: It ain’t Obama. And THAT”s shame.
By Copyleft
July 10, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this
Didn’t seem to bother you when you voted for AWOL Bush over veteran war-hero Kerry, now did it?
By Redneck Soup
July 10, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this
I am really impressed with the improv geniuses who can riff off the word “change” with double entendres worthy of a master himself. These bloggers must have studied with Robin Williams himself.
Recede, rescind, and recidivize, retards.
Americans live in denial. We will never get old. Never die. Never have to face next week, next month or next year. We focus on titillation. We vote for alliteration. Flip Flop flip flop should be good enough to elect the next ten presidents.
Our distraction is what allowed the same crew that brought us Iran-contra to give us Iraq-accomplished. Cheney and his boys. In both cases, Cheney had set up a wall of patsies to insulate himself (and others behind him) from sunlight.
Is Cheney the king of the world? The Stealth King? Do you trust Cheney?
He did accomplish Iraq, you have to give him credit for that.
By GOPs got to go
July 10, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Cheney is Dr Evil and the Anti-Christ all rolled up in to one big ball of pasty scariness.
And we all know where W was during Nam In AlaBAMa chasing skirts and getting drunk.
By BeeJay
July 10, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
McCain is not Kerry. Thank God.
By Slick
July 10, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Jay,
I agree with Hillbilly Deluxe that one can’t really say how he would behave as a POW unless he has been one. And I would never criticize our troops as long as they behave properly within the chain of command. That said…
John McCain has made his POW experience one of the major planks in his campaign from the git go. He seems to think the experience makes him better qualified to be Commander in Chief, and he never misses an opportunity to remind the voters of his captivity.
If we voters are supposed to accept this relationship between his captivity and his qualifications for president, then shouldn’t we know ALL of the details of his captivity - and not just the ones that he chooses to trumpet?
By Bill in KY
August 14, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Where were all of these outraged supporters of Sen. McCain when this was happening to Sen. Kerry? The fact it was done to Sen. Kerry does not make it right on any level, however, it’s hard to be indignant about it this time when it was those supporting the Republican candidate who did it 4 years ago.