Jay Bookman

By theprogressivebigot

June 23, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Hey…, why not abolish the county government!? They’re just ignorant local voices anyways.

Hey…, why not abolish the county and the state governments all together!? It’s a lot easier to vote one time, a vote for someone that knows what’s best for all of us.

Hey…, why not just abolish the vote all together!!??

By CJ

June 23, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

This article is dead-on. Wouldn’t it be nice to drive no more than 10 miles to a Park & Ride, then take the train the rest of the way to work or to events? We should all be able to do that in all of the metro counties. Also, the concept of MARTA and trains only taking passengers to Downtown is outdated. Perimeter is the business hub of Atlanta now. Most of the new corporate offices are along GA-400.
MARTA is old and expensive technology, so lets not even talk about expanding it but instead add to it. Hop off MARTA at Lindberge and hop on a different, more scalable train.

By Rick

June 23, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

The only thing that matters to a politician in Georgia, as we sit in traffic for hours and the infrastructure falls apart, is to say “I cut taxes.” The politicians will never change until Georgians come to accept that “common good” is not “communism”

By Chris

June 23, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Well in order to fix this problem we need responsible citizens willing to do their part and more importantly, vote in city and state officials that are competent and have a genuine willingness to fix the transportation woes of this metro area and state.

By EW

June 23, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Italic: “Arizona’s Maricopa County has a population of 3.8 million, 400,000 more than Fulton, Cobb, Gwinnett, DeKalb and Clayton counties combined. A region with a single county government can move much more quickly than a region with power fragmented among more than a dozen counties and scores of cities.”

The populations of these three regions are so vastly different that a consolodated government would only make issues worse. To even think of pulling Cobb or Gwinett into the likes of Clayton is laughable.

Italic: “Its new light-rail line has attracted an estimated $6 billion in new condos, office buildings and mixed-use retail projects along its path, the beginnings of new orientation to rail. Those projects were in the pipeline well before the runup in gasoline prices, but they look like an even better investment with oil at $140 a barrel”

Half of $6 billion in projects are now on hold and people like me are waiting on those guys to clean up their financial mishaps. Atlanta is sitting on a 3-5 year surplus of condos right now. There are other projects coming in that have had to go in a smaller holding pattern due to that surplus. While you would like to say “Phoenix is getting this instead of us” the simple fact is Atlanta already has it.

If you want to say Atlanta needs a better trasit system, fine I agree. But don’t use unrelated facts to back it up. Atlanta is not getting blacklisted because of it.

By Hmmmmm

June 23, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Could it be….! Something we both agree…. WOW. Somebody pinch me, I think I just may be having a nightmare! It’s probably one of the few things that our state government should have kept consolidated.”marta” Allowing local municipalities to create their own empty bus lines was a major blunder. There is NO telling how much this will eventually cost the Georgia tax payers.

By BPJ

June 23, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

I disagree with the idea that “Downtown is outdated”. Office parks on the perimeter are looking very 20th century now; there is a national trend back to city centers.

The largest group of commuters headed to a single, geographically compact area (where transit works best) is the workers headed from all over metro Atlanta to the Downtown/Midtown area. Downtown/Midtown is the largest office market in the metro area. (Midtown would be accessible by commuter rail, due to MARTA.)

By Sp Ed Teacher

June 23, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

“The city of Atlanta is only the 34th-largest city in the country, largely due to the area’s patterns of urban sprawl and the city’s inability to annex as have such cities as Charlotte, San Diego, Dallas, Houston and Phoenix.

Atlanta’s combined statistical area, or CSA, had a population in 2000 of 4,584,234. As of July 1, 2007 the population of the CSA is estimated to be 5,626,400.”

Why are politicians against light rail to Lovejoy (then Griffin, Macon, and Savannah) ?

By Steve

June 23, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

I blame all the hicks here who vote for idiots like Perdue.

By elias

June 23, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

The only reason marta isn’t in outlying areas is because of race issues. until we as a state can get past this the metro area will stay stagnant. In a recent trip to Charlotte I saw what a major city can accomplish in the south.

By joan

June 23, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

I finally agree with you on something. Don’t forget St. Louis either. That city, has put in a comprehensive light rail system that seems to go all over the place, ala the Metro in D.C. Atlanta can’t do it because its politicians worry more “getting theirs” than their populace.

By Jim's a Cherry Picker

June 23, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Hi Jay,

Marta works great for me. I’m 1 block away from the east lake station and I work downtown.

I’ve never been robbed, mugged, shot, stabbed, assualted or road raged while on Marta, nor have I witnessed anything similar.

Not counting a family road trip out of state, I’ve only bought gas three times this year.

By Keon Johnson

June 23, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Pheonix comparied to Atlanta isn’t a fair comparison. They reason they are able to get the state help they need is because over half the state’s population lives in that county! Did the article say, 3.5million? The state of Arizona is about 4-5million poeple total.

Still we should have beter transportation alternatives thant we currently do. Racism played a great role in restricting Marta leaving the urban center. Cobb county still holds on to the lunacy of CCT. Gwinett and Clayton followed along, but that was only Barnes cunning attemtp to switch and bait. Perdue un-did all of the plans that Barnes was planning to push down the voter’s throats. That’s the job of leaders, to lead, not follow. Sometimes the people simple don’t know the best, sometimes they do. With this transportation issue, they have shown they don’t know the best. MARTA could be the envy of the nation compared to Chicago, NYC, and elsewhere, except the small mind of the people and politician.

By Marta Rails

June 23, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

The only way to fix marta rail is to put pennies on the tracks and watch them get smushed. We’d at least get something for our money. What we really need is an elevated rail line, like the old “el” in new york and chicago. People like to sit up high in the sky and watch the birdies and stuff. It would work. But no, the government is too lazy and dumb to support anything good, that’s why I say it dont matter a whit what we try to do, somebody’ll stop us, they always do.

By MikeW.

June 23, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Mr. Bookman: Could you please help me with a little definition help? Exactly what is “light rail”? Is it electric and if so, where does it get its power, overhead or underground? Thanks.

By Surprise

June 23, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

I agree totaly with Jay on this and I even have a way to help finance improvements to MARTA. Let our gutless politicions pass a law that requires all new cars sold in Georgia to NOT have turn signals installed in them but charge us for them anyway. Then use the money for MARTA and no one will know the difference.

By Katchup

June 23, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

I’ve been saying this for years…I never understood why Atlanta had a lousy transit system, 26-40 different police departments, that equally in fire departments, and systems and services all different throughout the metro, can you say duplicious? The transportation system here is lousy and its racially estopped from any type of cohesion. Get over it! Mass transit is for EVERYONE!! We’re only 30 years behind the rest of the nation.

By Taxpayer

June 23, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

In order for rail to really catch on in Georgia, it will need something to make it more appealing to politicians, businessmen, and the public. It needs to be laid out with loops and twists and 6G turns and maybe even a few dips into some cool water. Of course, ticket prices still have to be affordable.

By Spanglish

June 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

The government should nuke everything inside the Perimeter and 10 miles South of I-20.

Oh, by the way…

BURN IN HELL, MARTA !!!!

By Matt

June 23, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

Light Rail (Peachtree Street Cars) is considered street cars. It runs on surface streets along with traffic or in dedicated lanes. These vehicles can stop at just about anywhere, they have dedicated “stations” which are often simply a raised curbed median. Whereas, Heavy Rail (MARTA) requires dedicated right of way & stations that are seperated from other forms of transportation. Heavy Rail stations are considered to be the major nodes in a transportation network, often used along major corridors. Light Rail is a connector system, much like our current MARTA buses, but since they often run in dedicated lanes they are more efficient people movers than buses. Both systems use electric driven motors, Heavy Rail can either be surface level electric lines(MARTA), Light Rail usually uses overhead electric lines. Each system has their respective benefits, wikipedia has a good GENERAL knownledge base about each technology.

By Deport them!!! (Mad As Zell)

June 23, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Hey Spanglish, you forgot Gwinnett County below the 85-316 split. Georgia can do without that non-English-speaking cesspool of “DIVERSITY” as well.

By Randy G.

June 23, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Can anyone say Monorail?

By Taxpayer

June 23, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Has anyone looked into these trash chutes that were used to dump debris from the upper levels of buildings into dumpsters. With the slowdown in construction, there should be plenty of these chutes going unused. Just let people go up the elevator at the end of the day and whoosh. If properly designed, I’ll bet those chutes could propel the average sized person several miles before needing another elevator assist. Just about any ticket price would be enough to pay for the chute rental fees. Heck, I’d pay just to watch people use the things.

By professional skeptic

June 23, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

@ Mad as Zell:

I am a fiercely independent-minded Georgian, and nothing serves as a bigger threat to my sense of freedom and mobility than being held prisoner against my will on Atlanta’s interstates in gridlock bumper-to-bumper traffic — brought on by the stubborn, short-sighted refusal of our state and regional leaders to invest over the years in a functional multi-modal system of transportation.

@Jay Bookman: Well said. Extremely well said.

By Scott

June 23, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Hey Spanglish, you can’t fool me! You’re Sonny Purdue using a pseudonym! I see you’ve spelled out in concise terms the plan you’ve been working on all along in office.

Your army of seatbelt-exempted pickup truck Bubbas show admirable fealty.

By Daniel

June 23, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

The traffic infrastructure in metro Atlanta and most other large metro areas is so poorly designed for the future. Many of these commentors do protest too much. The working poor and middle class need to get to work. Air pollution should be a significant health concern to the people of metro Atlanta. Traffic and auto related expenses are stressful and waste so much precious time in people’s lives. Freedom is having a car parked in the driveway and having the freedom to choose not to use it and still be able to get around, by bicycle, bus, train, or streetcar. This isn’t freedom that we have today. It’s an illusion. As it is, most Americans will bankrupt themselves before demanding something better from their government and their society. By that time, we might not be able to afford it. What a waste!

By ge

June 23, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

This can all be fixed by legislation from the state. The balless leaders in the gold dome find it easy to increase prison sentences and ban gay marriage. They have no real courage to tackle the true issues affecting the state. Put down the bible for a second and look out the window at the traffic, pollution and lack of water resources.

By Filster

June 23, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Compared to other major cities mass transit systems, say, BART in San Francisco, MARTA is a joke. Why not go completely automated like BART and do away with unncessary conductors? I’ll tell you why. Georgia is a state ruled by goobers and bubbas, and intercity inepts who use “the system” to award as many of their friends as they can with benefits, jobs, etc. Until this city moves beyond race, the Civil War (oops - I meant the War of Northern Agression) and stops trying to do everything they way “my grandaddy did” it wil lcontinue to slip further and further into obscurity.

By Reid in EAV

June 23, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

Jay, you and I may not agree, but you nailed it with this one. And yes, odd, that as much as (metro) Atlanta cares about being “world-class” and “leading-edge,” that we’re so woefully behind in this arena. And very soon, a post-peak oil universe will make this a necessity, not a luxury. Given the auto-oriented sprawl monoculture that defines this area and a lack of leadership to address it, I may end up having to move purely to survive. And I won’t be the only one.

By the way, I’m essentially a libertarian/conservative and voted for Bush twice (though reluctantly and regretfully the second time). This is not a partisan issue.

By newkid

June 23, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Jay, thanks to you and others there for the “Drilling Down on Oil” foldout piece in Sunday’s AJC. Still awaiting an informative compare/contrast expose’ from you and the team on the nation’s future energy choices (e.g., fossil, geothermal, cellosic vs corn vs sugarcane vs switchgrass ethanol, solar, etc). Please don’t disappoint.

For years (decades in some instances) some of us have expressed in private settings the abhorrent absence of broader vision and leadership among many of those we’ve ‘chosen’ to serve in elected positions here within the region and at the state level. Some would say perhaps we’ve gotten what we’ve deserved because we’ve not been more demanding of them. They’ve consistently found it be safer, and re-election more certain, to harbor and advocate myopic agenda not in keeping with the longer-term best interests of the human and natural resources of the region. So now we have what we have.

Clearly we can’t completely absolve ourselves of much of this responsibility; we should point the finger of blame largely at ourselves for being so willing to accept so little (in vision and leadership) from so many for so long. But shouldn’t we also ask that our business community (e.g., the Metro Atlanta Chamber of Commerce) share much of this of the blame for being asleep during much of this journey; a journey that has greatly enriched many of them? If our elected officials have been ‘steering the car’ over this journey, then certainly the business community has assuredly been in the ‘shotgun’ position in the front passenger seat for all these many years. Elected officials take their cues from the business community above all others, and our business community has been happy to collect the riches from yesterday’s and today’s exploits while shamefully neglecting theirs and our tomorrows.

Can this continue? Yes, indeed it can. If we continue to meekly do what we’ve done (and allow our business community to do likewise), we’ll assuredly continue to get what we’ve gotten.

By Jeremy

June 23, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Well, there have been some pretty interesting retorts among these comments, but I’d like to point out a few things in response.

EW claims that the populations of the other three metro area counties are too different to work together… I think that is precisely the attitude that holds us back. People of different classes, cultures and races CAN work together. The problem is, our current governmental system in the Metro area with 29 counties and +/- 150 cities is drastically ill-equipped to facilitate that sort of cooperation. Charlotte and Phoenix share one thing in common - The county where the cities reside is basically the city limits, and as the city grows, the land it consumes is annexed into the growing county.

To suggest it’s apples to oranges to compare Phoenix to Atlanta as Keon is just plain wrong. Georgia’s population is around 8 mil. The Atlanta Metro area, depending on how you count it, is around 4 million. Last I checked that was basically half the states population. Granted Phoenix might account for a bit more of AZ, but I don’t think that means we can’t look to them to see a good thing in action.

Denver Charlotte Portland Houston Minneapolis

These are just a few cities in the USA that Atlantan’s might like to believe we rival, but every one of those cities is eating our lunch when it comes to attracting population, businesses (jobs) and development. All of them share light rail and transit progressiveness in common.

However, as the region grows, we will need to look to systems like the BART, Metro (D.C.) and NYC all of which combine subway/heavy rail with commuter rail from around the region. We may also need to look seriously at connecting to other nearby large cities via high speed rail like Europe.

By Andrew

June 23, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Citizens for Progressive Transit

http://www.cfpt.org/

By WillM

June 23, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

Jeremy, to your claim: “Denver Charlotte Portland Houston Minneapolis

These are just a few cities in the USA that Atlantan’s might like to believe we rival, but every one of those cities is eating our lunch when it comes to attracting population, businesses (jobs) and development”

What’s your data on this?

Actually, Atlanta alternates with Dallas/Ft. Worth as the fastest growing metro areas in the nation year to year. Of the cities you mention, only Houston is in the same class as Atlanta in terms of population growth. Minneapolis, e.g., had about the same metro population as Atlanta in the early 80s, but since then Atlanta has added the equivalent of another Minneapolis and is now double its size.

So I’m not sure about your ‘eating our lunch’ claim in this respect. However, there may be other categories where it’s true and as far as attracting business and growth is concerned, it will be interesting to see if the oil prices makes a dent in that. So far, I don’t think there’s much evidence it has.

By ATLborn

June 23, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

Good article Jay and a lot of really good posts from the readers. I agree that MARTA should be supported by the state, expanded to include all of the 5 core metro Atl counties and supplemented by a light rail system far larger in scope than the envisioned Beltline.

Jay and a lot of the posters hit the nail on the head about the lack of visionary local and state leadership. Unfortunately backwards thinking is progressing in the metro area moreso than rational thinking. Now plenty of clowns in Buckhead want it to become its own city even though its already a part of one. For folks who claim they don’t like being taxed so much they sure seem willing to take on a lot more taxes. The state should work w/ the local counties and the city of Atl to develop a course of action where many of these little poop butt cities can be dissolved and be annexed in to the city of Atl. All of these unincorporated areas should be annexed in to the city as well. The city of Atl should extend west to east from Austell to Stone Mountain/Gwinnett area and north to south from Morrow to Alpharetta. All of Fulton, Dekalb, and Clayton counties should be annexed in to the city of Atl as well as the southern and half of the Eastern area of Cobb, and all of the southern Gwinnett area should be city of Atl as well.

All of these ragtag cities and counties make it almost impossible for the region as a whole to implement successful strategies to remedy our traffic congestion problems. The state needs a visionary leader that gets it, aware that the Atl is the heart of the states economy and when it sneezes the rest of the state catches cold. That leader would need to have the support of all the other elected state officials in the Atlanta metro area and then we’d be able to get some things done around here. But so long as we have clowns like Perdue that are only concerned about using state funds, primarily obtained from Atl area taxes, to fund Horse Barns in his rural home county and the “Hogline” in rural South GA, we will never address the metro regions traffic problems.

By WillM

June 23, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Jay for nailing this one right on the head. Sometimes it’s liberating to face things that are nearly insurmountable, even if it’s a little dispiriting to think that we probably won’t see in our lifetimes the kinds of structural changes that would really make the kind of dramatic change in this region possible that we need, in terms of jurisdictions, etc. But by facing it head on, we can at least start to think of alternate things we can do in the meantime.

By EW

June 23, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

Most of the people in this state would not spit on Atlanta if it was burning. Atlanta does not reflect the culture, beliefs or values of most of the surrounding counties much less the state. To try and force the state to pay for a trasit system in Atlanta would widen the gap that already exists.

Yes Atlanta needs a new transit system, however that is not holding businesses out of this city. I have met with the Perez’s, the Trumps, etc. and overwhelmingly thier complaints were not with the traffic, but cleanliness, attractions, parking, etc. Notice what has been improved over the last few years?

The “sky is falling” metality is fun and all but the facts do not support it.

By Cityboy

June 23, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

What in the world does the “culture, beliefs or values of most of the surrounding counties” have to do with having an efficient transit system. If some of the Jawja locals don’t get over this Atlanta vs suburbs mentality the entire metro will go downhill.

By Sunshine

June 23, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Where are you William B. Hartsfield?(Airport) Where are you Ivan Allan (MARTA)

By Bill

June 23, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Wow! You guys REALLY have a thing about people living in the suburbs (or exburbs, in my case).

If I want to pay $4 a gallon or more to gas up my car for my long daily commute (Braselton to Buckhead, 96 miles round trip) I by-god will, It’s NONE of anyone elses’ business and no liberal whining will stop me!

If it ever gets to that point, however, I will move completely OUT of Atlanta, as will many free-thinking INDIVIDUALS such as myself.

By R1070

June 23, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Yes! we do need light rail to connect the intown neighborhoods, Yes! we do need commuter rail to the burbs, but dont say we are behind other cities! Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Seattle, San Diego etc etc will mostly like NEVER have a high speed mass transit system like our marta rail lines. thats why they are investing in a slower paced ground level light rail system. If we get on boat with the commuter rail lines and the beltline along with our high speed marta rail lines we will be far above any of those cities! Plus I think Atlanta is much more walkable than most other sunbelt cities.

By Atlanta1

June 23, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

We always seem to put ourselves down in comparison to others cities! why??? I was just in chicago, you think our roads are bad. Take the traffic of the downtown connector except squeeze it into 3 lanes in each direction instead of 8 and add lots and lots of potholes!! and yes the El train system in chicago has more stops but you could walk faster than those 2 mph trains run!! no thank you!! we are much luckier here in Atlanta than we think. I think most people put down atlanta cause they never travel anywhere to see that other cities have the same if not worse problems!

By Chris

June 23, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

Commuting is voluntary. If I do something voluntarily only to find that I don’t like it, I do something revolutionary: I force everyone in the state to pay for a massive boondoggle that doesn’t really solve the problem. Just kidding! The actual revolutionary thing I do is STOP doing the thing I don’t like. Anyone who votes to fund decades-long transit projects should be required to live exactly where they lived when they voted for it, so we can be sure they take full advantage of whatever hideous bus route or train line passes nearest their home. Meanwhile, people who vote against it shall be free to change where they live or where they work and play, to suit their transportation preference (yes, just as all are free to do RIGHT NOW).

By EW

June 23, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

“What in the world does the “culture, beliefs or values of most of the surrounding counties” have to do with having an efficient transit system. If some of the Jawja locals don’t get over this Atlanta vs suburbs mentality the entire metro will go downhill.”

Because this was talking about state funding for an Atlanta transit system. Count me out. Until the facts show that the state economy is suffering due to this then forget asking the state to pay for it. Why pay more than we already have to to support a city that is run in a way inconsistent with the state?

I’m taking it from your “Jawja” comment you are a transplant. Amazing how we keep getting people like you around here. I wonder why. Oh yeah…growth.

By Georgia Boy

June 23, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Some interesting posts regarding MARTA and mass transit. I would like to point out that when the MARTA referendum passed, the geographical makeup of the metro area was radically different. The communities surrounding Atlanta were sparsely settled compared to today’s populations, so constructing a system based on shuttling people from the outlying suburbs into the city core made sense. As several posters have noted, the metro CSA is approximately 4.5 Million, but the City of Atlanta constitutes less than 10% of that population. The new challenge is to provide some form of transit for all 4.5 million, not just the 400,000 that lie within the city of Atlanta boundaries. Such a re-definition of Marta’s mission would require a new Board and a new charter.

The real problem is political. The transportation, health care, and educational issues facing the state require substantial public investment, which is in direct conflict with the Republican desire to “shrink” government. Policy changes on mass transit will be dependent on political changes under the Gold Dome.

By BPJ

June 23, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

Dear EW:

No one is suggesting that people outside metro Atlanta subsidize transit here. We are asking that our state taxes help pay for that. Atlanta (the city and the metro area) is a net contributor to the state budget; we subsidize the rest of the state. We simply want some of the money we pay into our state government be used where we live, for a means of transportation we desire. It’s our money.

By WillM

June 23, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

To Georgia Boy:

[The real problem is political. The transportation, health care, and educational issues facing the state require substantial public investment, which is in direct conflict with the Republican desire to “shrink” government. Policy changes on mass transit will be dependent on political changes under the Gold Dome]

Thank you!

By ASIAN MD

June 24, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

MARTA EMPLOYEES ARE THE MOST LAZY AND IN EFFICIENT EMPLOYEES IN THE RAIL INDUSTRY ALL OVER USA.

i used to work for a occupational medicine group in atlanta and saw marta employees many times as a physician,trying to take time off for stupid complaints.

IF YOU TELL THEM THE TRUTH, YOU ARE RACIST AND ANTI BLACK AS HUSSIEN OBAMA SAYS.

THANK GOD I LIVE IN GWINNET And dont have to finance grady and marta and pension plans of their lazy employees.

By MC

June 24, 2008 2:42 AM | Link to this

@EW: The fact that Atlanta is unlike the rest of Georgia is completely irrelevant, as our CMSA comprises somewhere around half of this state’s population (i.e., metro Atlanta is half of Georgia). I have never heard upstate New Yorkers argue against state funding for New York City’s MTA simply because Rochester and Manhattan are in essence different worlds.

By Michael

June 24, 2008 6:26 AM | Link to this

Georgia’s legislature is the civic arm of agribusiness. Agribusiness is ruled by white, rural men who cannot abide the fact that Atlanta has played such a prominent role in the civil rights movement. For most of the past fifty years, the leaders of agribusiness have devoted their energies to sucking as much substance out of the Atlanta region as they can while punishing it for its occasional, halting attempts at social progress.

This two-edged relationship—of parasitism coupled with seething contempt—has mirrored itself in the populations that have formed around Atlanta’s urban core, claiming on the one hand that they have nothing to do with “those” people in Atlanta while deriving from that same city virtually every benefit that makes their lives possible. Georgia’s failure to greet the future in a grown-up way is, then, definitely a failure of leadership, but that failure hasn’t been possible without the collusion of a populace that is largely ignorant, selfish and astonishingly small-minded.

Unless we reject the politics of hate and division, we will be left behind: not in a bucolic idyll, but in a desert of our own making.

By Butts Wagner

June 24, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. LIGHT RAIL IS NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR LONG COMMUTER TRIPS! The train to Lovejoy will either be a diesel locomotive or some overhead wire deal on regular train tracks. Light rail is streetcars, which are like buses that can never change their route without building new tracks. When they talk about using light rail as a substitute for heavy rail systems, like MARTA or commuter rail is, then they are talking about saving money, but looking progressive on transit. Arizona’s 20 mile long light rail is like having a 20 mile long bus ride, complete with many stops. I guarantee that’s an hour long trip. Commuter rail on the other hand is on a train that hits 80 mph and stops infrequently. A 20 mile trip on commuter rail might take 30 minutes, which is much more comparable to driving 20 miles on the interstate in heavy traffic. Stop the light rail nonsense. It’s fine for small urban areas where people are squeezed out of their cars, but to consider it for distances greater than 10 miles or so is not a good idea. It’s cheaper to do that, but will not look so progressive when people start complaining that it’s too slow or too small for transporting large amounts of people over large distances.

By jeed

June 24, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

By EW

“What in the world does the “culture, beliefs or values of most of the surrounding counties” have to do with having an efficient transit system. If some of the Jawja locals don’t get over this Atlanta vs suburbs mentality the entire metro will go downhill.”

Because this was talking about state funding for an Atlanta transit system. Count me out. -

Just because it IS Atlanta does not mean it is NOT Georgia, although people try to make the two mutually exclusive. Should we NOT support our farmers because they are not in the metro area?

There are an abundance of items funded through state taxes, etc., that benefit a county, region, city more than others. This should be no different, especially since half of the state’s population lives here.

By Taxpayer

June 24, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

The length of the “light rail” system is of secondary concern. A light rail system is not intended as a primary means of transportation over long distances however that does not mean that the rails cannot span a “long” distance. The light rail system provides a means for passengers to make pseudo-random jumps on and off the rail in order to say get from work to a place for lunch and back. Of course, this is just one example. Commuter rail service would also be accessed by light rail. The key to an efficient light rail system is in mapping out good routes for the rails and providing an appropriate time interval between passenger cars. The layout of the tracks can take on many patterns such as continuous loops or rings, star configurations, or combinations — all of varying lengths as needed. Initial installations can be determined probably from a study of current bus ridership. Then, the freed up buses could be more effectively used to cover unplanned surges in ridership, etc. Of course, that’s just my opinion.

By DARIAN

June 24, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

JUST WAIT HATERS!! WHEN OBAMA TAKE OVER THE BLACK MAN IS THE RACE OF THE FUTURE!!! ATL BETTER GET ON BOARD BECAUSE THE BLACK RACE IS GOING TO BE RUNNING THINGS FROM NOW ON!! YOU ALL BETTER RECOGNIZE!!!!!! WE COMING TO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE BE TAKING OVER!!!!!!!!

By zeke

June 24, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

Rails are not the answer! Yes, they can take loads of taxpayer money and then transfer it to non taxpayers through subsidizing the fares! RAILS SHOULD ONLY BE BUILT IF THEY CAN BE SELF SUPPORTING WITH NO TAXPAYER FUNDING OF OPERATIONS, PERIOD! Just last year we were lied to that marta had a $12 million surplus, but, hidden in the story was the fact that taxpayers funded over $160 millon, meaning marta lost $150 million! Let the truth out! Marta and any mass transportaion system cannot and wiil not work without raping taxpayers!!!!

By WillM

June 24, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Terrific Michael (“Georgia’s legislature is the civic arm of agribusiness. Agribusiness is ruled by white, rural men who cannot abide the fact that Atlanta has played such a prominent role in the civil rights movement. For most of the past fifty years, the leaders of agribusiness have devoted their energies to sucking as much substance out of the Atlanta region as they can while punishing it for its occasional, halting attempts at social progress.”)

That’s spot on I think. But one question. How do you explain Perdue’s insistance on fixing the flag mess? Was this just agribusiness’s grudging bow to maintaining the image of the state as a whole?

By Taxpayer

June 24, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

zeke,

Politicians rape the taxpayers by not working [for the taxpayers]. With a rail system, at least we might get to enjoy the ride.

You see how easy it is to carry on the Carlin tradition.

By Michael

June 24, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

WillM: I don’t know what Perdue’s motivation was behind the role he played in the flag fuss; I would think it came down to enough business interests forcing him to act as he did. I can’t think of any other issue where he’s shown particularly courageous, independent thinking, so I would have to guess he was guided by others on the flag issue.

It may also be that there are enough people who remember that Georgia’s “old” flag was actually adopted during the 1950s as a reaction to de-segregation; that flag had never served before as a state flag; it was, rather, a regimental battle flag that the more reactionary folks in the state adopted as a “traditional” state flag to show their anger over school de-segregation. What has become recognized as Georgia’s “old” state flag was, in other words, invented as a state emblem to support the interests of racism.

Whatever Perdue thought as he became involved in the fuss, he did a good thing by defeating the “old” flag. I can’t say I have any lofty thoughts about what motivated him. I hope I am not doing him injury by thinking as I do.

By Stewc22

June 24, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Mass transit in metro Atlanta is a wonderful idea.High fuel prices[which continue to rise]clogged roads,travel time,exhaust gasses.My hat’s off to these road warriers.But the opportunity for extention of masss transit is knocking at our door once again.A quick stress free commute to work & play.Crime is the provence of our Marta Police force.I see mass transit as win/win.Folk’s $13 dollar weekly.$52 dollar monthly.Wow beat that deal.Vote a resounding Yes.Pay now or pay later.Thank’s

By Stewc22

June 24, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Mass transit in metro Atlanta is a wonderful idea.High fuel prices[which continue to rise]clogged roads,travel time,exhaust gasses.My hat’s off to these road warriers.But the opportunity for extention of masss transit is knocking at our door once again.A quick stress free commute to work & play.Crime is the provence of our Marta Police force.I see mass transit as win/win.Folk’s $13 dollar weekly.$52 dollar monthly.Wow beat that deal.Vote a resounding Yes.Pay now or pay later.Thank’s

By Homegrown genius

June 24, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

A lot of interesting viewpoints about transit and population growth on this blog. Some the posters have mentioned the population of the Metro area as being 4.5 million, but the last estimate that I saw, which was a 2007 estimate that a poster mentioned earlier, was 5.6-5.7 million in the 29-county area. That means that over 2 million!!! people have moved into the metro area since the Olympics. During that time, the state of Georgia has severely underinvested in infrastructure of all forms most notably transportation, health care and education. The population of the state of Georgia was also last estimated in 2007 to be over 9.5 million. The issue of infrastructure should not be framed in as a matter Atlanta vs. the rest of Georgia issue, but as a statewide issue. Schools and hospitals are over Georgia need increased state funding and there should absolutely be a sane, rational STATEWIDE plan to deal with transportation as well as water because rapid transit and toll roads in Metro Atlanta and North Georgia is just as important to the state economic well-being and quality of life as new interstate highways and/or toll roads connecting Savannah, Augusta and Toccoa and Augusta, Macon and Columbus and the last time I looked, children in South Georgia and Metro Atlanta have to get an education. The state has been shirking its financial responsiblity on more than just transportation. Not that Metro Atlanta has helped its own cause at times, because cooperation between 30+ county commissions and 150+ mayors isn’t always going to be easy to coordinate so a lot of responsibility for the urban and suburban issues of such a super-large, diverse and complex metro area (Metro Atlanta) and region (North Georgia) often get pushed off on the state gov’t which also has to deal with rural issues of the larger state (Georgia). In other words, Metro Atlanta has grown so large (5.7 million people over 29-counties) that the Governor of Georgia has become the de-facto mayor of the metro area whether he wants to or not!

By resident

June 24, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

City of Atlanta is setting the stage for its future: www.connectatlantaplan.com

By Homegrown genius

June 24, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Another poster also mentioned that one reason that the region has so much trouble working on its own problems is because of the multitude of city and county governments in the metro area (150+ cities and 29 counties) and mentioned possibly looking to the state to forcefully annex most of the area in the five core metro counties into a larger city of Atlanta. That would be impossible and ill-advised because none of our state legislators would sign on to taking political power away from the constituents they represent in their local city or county gov’t and sending it to a super-large mega bureaucracy in Downtown Atlanta. Also, other reasons why the City of Atlanta never annexed anymore land around it to become larger after 1952 was because the urban has grown to encompass all of the surrounding counties outside of Fulton, but the area of Fulton County that Atlanta occupies is relatively small, only about 152 square miles and is squeezed in by the incorporated cities of College Park, East Point and Hapeville to the South and its nearly politically impossible for a city to annex land in another county that most it’s land and population isn’t in. Also, the very politically liberal Democrat, black-dominated Atlanta city government has had no interest in annexing, let’s say for example, a traditionally very conservative Republican, white-dominated Sandy Springs unincorporated suburban area with which it shares nothing in common with, politically, culturally or socio-economically. In other words, the reason why an unincorporated area like Sandy Springs was never incorporated into Atlanta is because black and gay liberal Democrats in Atlanta don’t want white conservative Republicans in Sandy Springs voting for their city government, unless they’re uber rich like they are in Buckhead.

By WillM

June 24, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Michael: (“Whatever Perdue thought as he became involved in the fuss, he did a good thing by defeating the “old” flag. I can’t say I have any lofty thoughts about what motivated him”.)

Sounds about right to me.

Again, great input on ‘agribusiness’. We just needed a concept to crystalize it. Good job. Hey want to start a blog? (Half-joking)