Jay Bookman

By rightytighty

June 19, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

There’s nothing new here… In fact, it coincides with a recent human rights report that concluded the same thing after interviewing some recent detainees. Of course, it all depends on your definition of torture doesn’t it.

Below is how the Bush haters like to define it today, ask John McCain how it use to be defined..

“All 11 former detainees reported being subjected to:

_Stress positions, including being suspended for hours by the arms or tightly shackled for days.

_Prolonged isolation and hooding or blindfolding, a form of sensory deprivation.

_Extreme heat or cold. _Threats against themselves, their families or friends from interrogators or guards.

Ten said they were forced to be naked, some for days or weeks. Nine said they were subjected to prolonged sleep deprivation. At least six said they were threatened with military working dogs, often while naked. Four reported being sodomized, subjected to anal probing, or threatened with rape. ”

My or my, how can we possibly do this to people caught on a battle field and accused of terrorism…(eyes rolling)

By rightytighty

June 19, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Meanwhile…, out in the real world.

“Rape a way of life for Darfur’s women.”

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/06/19/darfur.rape/index.html

By JAY BOOKMAN

June 19, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

To Tighty:

You point out that the 11 are FORMER detainees, meaning that the military later determined they were innocent or posed no danger.

If they were captured on the battlefield they were soldiers not to be tortured; if they were terrorists they should have been shot or kept in prison.

But they were released. Tortured and released.

By Dusty

June 19, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

I tell you, liberals are so seeped in hate for President Bush and the Iraq War they will believe anything detrimental to the USA. They believe because they WANT TO believe the worst.

I could say somebody told me that Americans were feeding prisoners to the sharks outside of Guantanamo. Some liberal would jump right on it and say he knew it all the time. Bookman would write it up pronto.

Some of this “torture” is no worse than what the homeless experience in down town Atlanta. Isolated bad instances are reported as widespread. Reports come from prisoners who will say anything against us. Then one general out of hundreds decides later to make a report (and probably sell a book). He had also been dismissed and we do not know what was written on that dismissal. Granted he is not happy.

The President does not condone torture. The Armed Forces do not condone tortue. Soldiers who tortured prisoners have been sent to jail. Anyone accused of torture is tried by a military court.

So live it up, libs. Turn against your country like it was a snake pit. Osama appreciates your help abolishing the USA.

By ByteMan

June 19, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

Poor Dusty. The best you can come up with is to attack the messenger and/or dismiss the information as being “no worse than what the homeless experience in down town Atlanta”. Which is a great sound bite, except for one thing:

The homeless have a choice in how they live and can choose to go to a shelter or find a job or get help through numerous social services and/or churches. The prisoners at Gitmo do not have that option. Instead our own military at the insistance of the Secretary of Defense tortured these people for no particular reason. And then let many of them go (over 500 so far) without a trial. Why do you think they just let them go like that… because they were terrorists or because they were innocent?

Did we really need to torture them and prove what the Islamists always suspected about us?

By sunshine and thunder

June 19, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Torture? Are you kidding me? Having to stay awake, hold your arms out, be shackled, stand naked and have panties put over your head?

This sounds like fraternity hazing. Make some of these detainees read Bookman for a while. They’ll get an idea what real torture is all about.

By Dusty

June 19, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

ByteMan@5:44

Do you even KNOW the definition of a terrorist? Did you KNOW that they attacked this country 9/11? Does it occur to you that the military assumes that someone shooting or bombing them MIGHT be a terrorist?

Terrorists did not come to America for a picnic. They come here to KILL US. That thought seems to have slipped your mind.They are not fighting us in Iraq for fun. They want to KILL US. They are not going to be sweet little innocents in jail because THEY WANT TO KILL US. They are not going to say NICE things about our military.

Wake up, dingbat. If you get Obama for president you are not going to have someone who cares about your protection. He, like you, will not see the need for it.

As to Bookman, not only is he the messenger, he is also the perpetrator of dubious antiAMerican journalism. His free speech is no greater than mine so we both say what we believe to be correct. Only I think Bookman should know better than what he writes.

By Bud Wiser

June 19, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

So the detainees claim they were tortured? Our prisons in America are also overflowing with ‘innocent’ people. After serving grand jury duty for six months, and having to visit local jails and detention facilities to hear the pleas of the ‘innocent’, I left with a feeling of awe….I was amazed these people were not in loony bins instead of jail. And the conditions? Each cell had a tv, and these clowns were eating better than I was at home, being monitored by nutrition specialists instead of doing their usual thing and holding up a Mrs Winners.

I guarantee you that anyone in prison these days deserves to be there. They are too stupid to exist on the outside, incapable of making an honest living, and equally incapable of being ‘rehabilitated’ (which none of them want to begin with). And as far as the murderers at Gitmo? If they are so innocent, then maybe Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Barak Obama, and the Hollywood crowd would like to hire them out as housekeepers or gardeners when they are released.

Sunshine and Thunder said it best:This sounds like fraternity hazing. Make some of these detainees read Bookman for a while. They’ll get an idea what real torture is all about.

By CJ

June 19, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

“Torture? Are you kidding me? Having to stay awake, hold your arms out, be shackled, stand naked and have panties put over your head? This sounds like fraternity hazing.”

Sunshine forgot to mention that he saw Congressman Dana Rohrabacher make this comment on television. We all know that Republicans on this site are Fox News parrots, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t give credit from time to time.

Just a reminder that some of our prisoners died after being “hazed”. Those skid marks in Sunshine’s panties must have been potent.

By Tom

June 19, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

An Army 2-star general is ‘a liberal so steeped in hate for Bush’? That’s really the best comeback you;ve got to offer - typical Fox news slander? Simply pathetic. You GOP dead-enders have lost all touch with reality. Simply pathetic.

By Customer

June 19, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

If torturing a terrorist will stop another 911, (like in the hit series, “24”), then all I have to say is, the positive terminal goes on the right nipple, and the negative terminal goes on the left nipple.

BUTT! (camera to me pointing at my p-hole, no, I mean a-hole), if the torturing for the last 7 years hasn’t produced anything, then I say, the left hand goes over the bible, the right hand is held up and repeat after me, I, George W Bush, do hereby swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing BUTT the truth so help me God. Testify, brother, testify so that we as a country can know what really happened. Dont you want to know? We may have to impeach Bush and Cheney who, let’s face it, ordered this torture and then classified it so’s they wouldn’t get caught.

I remember that in the last seven years, there were reports that this terrorist attack was stopped or that 911 sequel had been thwarted by torturing the secret plans out of a detainee. If that’s true, then fine. But do I really believe those reports, which have been classified because they say national security is at stake, (but so was Valerie Plames identity), so I simply dont know.

I’m open minded. I admit that I’m so in the dark that I can still believe in Bush and have some confidence that Iraq will turn out a victory, I can also be open minded enough to believe that Cheney figured he didn’t have a choice but to torture detainees for secret plans of new 911. On the other hand, I’m realistic enough that I can be equally suspicious of Cheney and Bush and think that they overreacted and need to be held accoutable.

911 was not some hi tech WMD attack that required rocket scientist level evil geniuses. It was men stepping on a plane and tricking a sleeping giant. Bush and Cheney should have known it was coming, and that’s where I start my attitude. They hated Clinton so much, that they couldn’t bring themselves to understand the warnings from Clinton era intel about the impending threat from OBL.

Impeach them, if that’s true.

By ByteMan

June 19, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

Dusty, you really need to get out more. Again: you’re trying to attack the messenger instead of addressing the issue. We tortured these people and then LET THEM GO. We didn’t try them, we didn’t have ANY evidence that they were terrorists; many were just poor idiots in the wrong place at the wrong time. We kidnapped them from faraway places, brought them to the tip of Cuba, tortured them — sometimes just for the amusement of their guards — and then LET THEM GO. We didn’t let them go because they were terrorists, right?

I’ll grant you that a few of them were indeed terrorists. But I still wouldn’t want to be the fool who proved the Islamists right by torturing them for worthless information.

As any professional interrogator will tell you, you can’t rely on intel obtained from torturing. People being tortured will say anything to get the torture to stop. They aren’t necessarily interested in telling the truth, they’re just interested in saying whatever someone wants them to say so that the torture stops.

And it’s not hazing, people. Try turning yourself upside down and pouring water in your nose and mouth and let us know if that feels like hazing or drowning.

We could have put these people on trial, but the morons in charge thought it would be more interesting and “helpful” to inflict pain and suffering on them instead. Now we can’t try them and we aren’t sure what to do with them. The Bush team’s strategy is to run out the clock and make it someone else’s problem. Much like their current strategy in Iraq.

Dusty, get your head out of your tush already. You’re smarter than the junk you’re spouting here.

By Dusty

June 19, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Customer,you really FORGET a lot.

WHAT warnings did Clinton give Bush? Did he mention the previous World Trade Center bombings that he did little or nothing about? Or did he mention WHAT defenses he had placed after that bombing? WHAT defenses???

Bush had been in office 8 months. Was he supposed to have rebuilt the military in that time, the military that Clinton had cut back in drastic measures.

9/11 attack was planned many months in advance. Terrorists had time to take flying lessons among other things. They knew the ideal location to hit a skyscaper. They coordinated their attacks using three planes loaded with civilians. They planned to hit Washington also.

Fortunately, there were brave people on one plane who realized what was happening and fought. They crashed that plane before it could reach its target. They most certainly saved the heart of Washington.

Impeach somebody? How about the people who are now blocking almost every effort to complete this war? This war, without a doubt, a war against the terrorists who hate us.

There are people here who seem to care more about terrorist prisoners than American soldiers. I’m talking about liberals like Pelosi, Reid, Murtha and other liberals besides those in Congress. They disgrace this country. Impeach THEM!!

By Bud Wiser

June 19, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

To Tom @ 7:12pm: What do you know about two star generals, except what you read from Daily Kos or Bookman? My entire life’s savings are on the fact that you not only never served in the military, but could not even distinguish the uniforms of our own services if they were standing side by side. You are probably cut from the same mold as the San Francisco crowd that spits on people who served (as they did on me back in the 70’s) simply because I was in the military.

You are the one that is ‘simply pathetic’. The only touch morons like you have with reality is when you watch American Idol.

Idiot.

By Taxpayer

June 19, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

And if this were not enough…the word out now is that the militant detainees were actually using their time behind bars recruiting other prisoners. Who would have ever figured that Guantanamo would turn into a terrorist training camp. I guess we’ll have to start with a few bombing runs to shock and awe the detainees followed by a Marine strike force under cover of darkness to light up a few strategic targets based on feedback from the eyes on the ground. Of course, no such mission could be accomplished without embedded reporters in their FOX holes to keep us all apprised. Perhaps we should send in a 3-Star General from the very beginning just to add a little credibility. After all, sending in a 2-Star General “after-the-fact” will only raise suspicions and doubts about the loyalty of the man if he happens to report back anything that does not fit with the previously stated beliefs of his “superiors” and their supporters. Whatever the outcome, I’m sure it will liberate us from our fears and we will sleep soundly knowing that the world has been moved one step closer to becoming a safe, terror-free place to live.

By Dusty

June 19, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Byteman, you should read more than liberal propaganda.

I believe you will find that investigators have found exactly three prisoners who were “waterboarded”. One of them was a mastermind of 9/11. You will have to produce records of 500 prisoners being tortured. You won’t because it isn’t true. Discomfort is not torture. You simply WANT to call it torture. Just being in jail is torture by your standards.

Guantanamo has more “indulgences” than most prisons in the USA.

Nobody here condones torture, not even beheading which terrorists use. So you go over there and tell terrorists they are wrong. We already have laws against such things. It is an aberration when it happens. But you make it quite clear whose side you think is doing everything wrong, the USA. I am NOT with you.

Good night…

By Hillbilly Deluxe

June 19, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Anybody ever talk to a World War II vet about what happened to prisoners when officers weren’t around?

By CJ

June 19, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Bud Wiser: “*You are probably cut from the same mold as the San Francisco crowd that spits on people who served (as they did on me back in the 70’s) simply because I was in the military. *”

My entire life’s savings are on the fact that you were never spit on in San Francisco or anyplace else, during the 70’s or any other time, simply because you were in the military.

No, it didn’t happen. Yes, I’m calling you a liar.

Thank you for your service!

By Ms Tucker If Ur Nasty

June 19, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Conservative idiots, you’re destroying the country in your insane quest for a Utopian society built on very unsound principles. We’re financially and morally bankrupt, the nation has rudderless leadership, and many of you are willing to tee it up and do it all over again. If we take 12 years of this lunacy we’re going to be fully cooked.

By James

June 19, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

You know it’s a good thing we all weren’t around during WWII with this milktoast mindset or we would all be speaking German and eating sushi for breakfast. The press would have leaked the D-Day date after a Freedom of Information Act request, captured derelict Japanese Kamakasi pilots would have lined up at every Federal District Court in the country so they could get back to their planes, the ACLU would have represented Hitler, Congressman Murtha would have called General Eisenhower a murderer for having the 17 German soldiers who were caught out of uniform at the Battle of the Bulge shot by firing squad without so much as a “how do you do” and no one would have had the guts to drop the atomic bombs thereby saving hundreds of thousands of AMERICAN lives because WE DIDN’T START THE WAR!!! What a great bunch of wannabe armchair Presidents and Generals we all are. Take it from me, war is hell for those of you who have never been there - the kind that is eyeball to eyeball just like the one we are in now. I guarantee you I had it rougher in USMC bootcamp (not to mention escape and evasion training after I got “caught”) than 90% of the terrorists we’re whinning about. But alas, most of you are kept by better men than yourselves. How you look at yourselves in the mirror I don’t know. Oh, perfidious nation (look it up)!

By GodHatesTrash

June 20, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

These cheerleaders for torture are a bunch of mangy hyenas.

What filth these rednecks be!

Trash all.

By Frederick Douglass

June 20, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

James you failed to mention that we treated German prisoners of war that were held right here in Georgia, bet- ter than BLACK GI’S. Yes these guys were afforded all the rights normally tendered to white Americans at the time, many married American girls and never went back home to face up to their crimes. What about the internment camps for AMERICANS of Japanese descent who were stripped of all of their possessions simply because they didn’t look right. My point is that if not for the ACLU and like groups, this wouldn’t be a very nice place to live for everybody, but maybe the views of people would’ve changed by osmosis.

By NRB

June 20, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

This is typical of the AJC, and for Bookman in particular, to trash America and stick up for the “rights” of enemy insurgents and foreign terrorists.

The mental disorder of liberalism seems to dictate that any enemy of America must be a friend to liberalism.

Way to go Jay…kick our troops while their down. And please keep wondering why readership is down, too.

By thetruthwillsetufree

June 20, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this

I came upon this blog accidently through links to news stories from several sources. I was searching for George Bush War Crimes because it was obvious—blatantly, that I wasn’t getting a “fair and balanced” rendering of the story… You pro-torture Bush fetishists make me sick. If you’re what passes for conservative thought nowadays, then True conservatism is clearly dead. It was based on educated, rational thought and a HEFTY dose of skepticism for the “official” story. You guys are just dupes who get off on your feelings of outrage. You would probably have called William F. Buckley a liberal fool because he used big words.

You do know who William F. Buckley was?

You embarrass his memory, along with Ronald Reagan’s and Barry Goldwater’s.

By Bud Wiser

June 20, 2008 7:16 AM | Link to this

Punks like CJ find it easy to call other people liars from the safety of a keyboard. The beauty of being a former American serviceman is that I can proudly say I helped to protect the rights of moronic fools like him, despite whatever he or any other left wing socialist thinks of our military.

It is soooooo typical of leftists to resort to name-calling, screaming, foaming at the mouth, or other forms of hysteria when presented with ugly little ‘inconvenient truths’ that do not agree with their agenda.

To coin a phrase from my era brings to mind a song by Otis Redding, “Try a Little Tenderness”. Try it CJ, and maybe it will be the antidote for the poison in your soul.

Note: I did not call you a liar, but you do owe me some money, fool.

By Charles

June 20, 2008 7:19 AM | Link to this

Hopefully those who like to smear our men in uniform (like Rep. John Murtha) will pay for their lies.

By Bud wiser

June 20, 2008 7:45 AM | Link to this

A serviceman? Georgia National Guard? What unit?

By GOPs got to go

June 20, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

I would like to put it out there that I consider GOP mindless flag waving and eagle soaring torture to me.

By RetiredLTC

June 20, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

Anyone who attacks the service of Gen. Anthony Taguba and his findings disgust me. I guarantee you that Gen. Taguba hoped against hope that he did not find what he eventually did. He had the courage and the integrity to report his findings honestly. He did not give an opinion, just a finding. His job was not to take a political stand, to protect the administration, nor give a finding based on political expediency or ideology. He did his job and then courageously reported honestly. It cost him his career as he knew it would. To attack him is about the most unpatriotic action I can think of. What is that saying? “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free”. Those of you who attack the patriotism of patriots like Gen. Taguba are not only unpatriotic, but anti freedom as well.

By kitty

June 20, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this

What scares me is that so many here think the this sort of treatment of people who have not been convicted of anything is acceptable. Makes me wonder how long it will be until American citizens are treated this way just because they don’t agree with the people in power. Just look at how Padilla was imprisoned with no trial etc for YEARS. Slippery slope, here we come?

By Copyleft

June 20, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this

Dusty and James are right. Anybody our forces arrest is “probably” guilty, and should be subjected to whatever torture we feel is necessary, or fun.

After all, some completely different bad guys attacked us once! So anything we do is justified!

By Thomas Jefferson

June 20, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this

How long will it be before people in this country are kidnapped off the street and subjected to torture because someone SUSPECTS they are terrorists. And how broad will the definition of “terrorist” become? With people like Dusty, Bud Wiser, and others of their ilk, that possibility is not so far fetched.

By WillM

June 20, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

Wow, the librul-avengers are out in force here.

[“After all, some completely different bad guys attacked us once! So anything we do is justified!”]

Wow, that’s a pretty ignorant statement. Do you mean ANYTHING? Well apparently not, since the people who actually masterminded the attack killing thousands of Americans roam freely and continue their activities virtually unhindered.

Think about how asinine what you’re saying is.

By Papa Rohn

June 20, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

Dusty wrote: “Terrorists did not come to America for a picnic. They come here to KILL US.”

Which makes me want to find a terrorist and say, “Hey, dude, you missed one.”

By DK

June 20, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

This is what you get when you place men who have never really served in the military (active duty) in the highest levels of the command and control structure. Our military has suffered from this lack of competent military leadership for the last sixteen years, and it looks like we’re in for four more years of the same (unless Obama remembers some of that military training he got in that madrasah).

By AH

June 20, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

Haditha

By Eric1

June 20, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

Hell yeah I hate george w bush. Proud of it. I hate that piece of trash for what he’s done to my country, for what he’s done to over 4000 of my brave service members, for what he’s done to countless innocent Iraqis, for Abu Ghraib, for Katrina, for gas prices, for Scooter Libby, for the Supreme Court, for Dick Cheney, for Donald Rusmfield, for Mission Accomplished, for the FACT that he hasn’t the mental fortitude to be president, for his arrogance and his ignorance, for our diminished standing in the world, for the mortgage crisis, for the lack of a comprehensive energy policy, etc, etc, etc….An approval rating of 29 percent seems way too high for me. I cannot wait until he disappears from our consiousness forever. Signed, Another Bush Hater.

By zeke

June 20, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

Jay, you are among the liberal idiots who do not understand that Abu Grab? was no big thing! It just gave you another instance to bash Bush because he won over your “golden boy” liberal waste of human flesh! All those “detainees” as they are inaccurately described, should probably been shot in the field as terrorists and enemies!

By Marie

June 20, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this

According to Jay, “The truth will emerge, and when it does this nation’s reputation will be seriously damaged in the eyes of the world and in the eyes of its own people.”

Now, now Jay are you not just being a little over dramatic here? You would be hard pressed to find 10 people in your office who would honestly say that AG has damaged the reputation of their country in their eyes.

I am not for the inhumane treatment of any human being and if innocent Iraqis were tortured and brutalized for kicks and giggles then I think those responsible should be held accountable.

But for heaven’s sakes we are at war with a brutal, inhumane enemy that will cut off the heads of Americans and do far, far worse than anything that was done to AG if we do not destroy their appetite and will for violence.

I love you Jay you are one of my favorite libbies. However, you really need to get a grip on reality and recognize that ole OBL and other Islamofacist could care less about how humane we treat Islamics. Their one desire is to bring Isreal and America to its knees and they will stop at nothing to accomplish that goal. So you go greet these killers with your goodwill, a big ole hug, coffee, doughnuts, and a pamphlet explaining his Constitutional rights. The rest of us would prefer these fools dead.

By Archie

June 20, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

Simple answer- Don’t take any prisoners.

By Ray

June 20, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

These people cut heads off, blow up women and children, have no regard for human life, send retarded and brain washed suicide bombers to kill anyone who stands in their way and you want to be nice to them. Being nice to them is interpreted by them as weakness, or have you not noticed? Fair trial? What a joke! Our Supremes did a number on us when they authorized “fair trials” for these animals. Maybe you can charm them to death. What a bunch of whackos!!

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

I think many are missing the point about the “terrorists” in Guantanamo - the Supreme Court ruled they have the right to habeus corpus (?sp) - that doesn’t automatically equate to letting them go.

You can spin it all you want, but no country in the civilized world holds prisoners based on the cirucumstances the prisoners at Guatanamo are held.

If the prisoners are terrorist, and want to kill and blow us up, then put them on trial, find them guilty, and put them in prison - real prison - forever.

By Bubba from Buckhead

June 20, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

Zeke and Bud-dumber No disrespect to our servicemen. They perform their jobs to the best of their abilities. They follow the rules set by our leadership. It’s ashame that most of them don’t think for themselves. Like most delusional rightwingers, they think killing, torture, and occupation is another day in the office. These are the modern day terrorist. They spread this sickness throughout our country as if the land of the free is supposed to cost lives of the innocent to protect the lies of the American leadership. They’ll never agree with the majority of the country, since they enjoy death and suffering. Hey guys you need to go to church and ask for forgiveness for spreading this filth.

By Archie

June 20, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

Screw trying them. Screw putting them in prison. Shoot them. Bury them. Period. When they get a hold of our people, they torture the hell out of them and slit their throats. Kill them. All of them. Any time we get them. Anywhere.

By Mike

June 20, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Keep it up, Jay! You continue to chisel your skewed-journalist reputation in concrete. You think that what happened to those people was even close to having one’s head sawed off with a dull knife? They weren’t/aren’t covered under the Geneva Convention. What’s to complain about?

By Lt Gen (ret) William Peers

June 20, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

This mindset reminds me of a time past when anyone in a suspect village was the enemy. Nobody bothered to think that the bad guys came in from the outside, the villagers actually lived there. What should they have done? Move? Well eventually they had to because the whole village would be burned to the ground. We all know how well that worked out for us don’t we. Remember, “those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it”. Funny how a bunch of guys that just couldn’t find the time for that one either deprived themselves of a valuable lesson that could have kept us from making the same mistake once again.

By James

June 20, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

The worst thing about all of this is that an activist five members of the Surpreme Court have again made up a “right” for someone (in this case for foreign enemy combatants) that is just not there. If the majority of the American people feel that these terrorists should be treated judicially the same as American citizens that’s fine ……… but their is a process. It’s called a Constitutional Amendment. To allow activist judges to make these rights up only cheapens and prostitutes the Constitution and remember if five liberals can do it then five conservatives can do it on another issue. Both groups would be wrong!

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Archie and Mike,

How can “they” slit throats and cut off people’s heads with dull knives when “they” are in prison?

The laws of our country do not convict people in groups - they do not convict people because of race or religion - they convict them one by one in a court of law.

Going after the ones who actually did these horrific acts is one thing, but by grouping all of the prisoners in Guantanamo together with all of the “terrorists” abroad who commit these horrific acts, dehumanizes the process of justice - by doing so, you are no better than the ones who commit these horrific acts. It’s not what civilized people do. I personally do not wish to see our country going the way of the barbarians.

By rightytighty

June 20, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Dear Thomas Jefferson,

If you should EVER believe me to be someone building ide’s, planting ied’s or even promoting the idea that either is a viable alternative to a peaceful democratic society.

Then please! Haze me!!

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

James,

Judicial activism is a myth - people cry judicial activism when a judge interprets the law in a way they don’t agree with.

Screaming judicial activism is simply whining that your side didn’t win.

By the way, you never answered my question the other day:

Would you support an increase in TANF funding if abortion were banned?

By JackLeg

June 20, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

You are correct; torture should never be aloud in any form. We should simply treat them the way they treat our captured soldiers, kill them by beheading with a dull rusty knife, then drag their bodied through the streets. Eye for an Eye, they seem to understand that.

By Archie

June 20, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Bosch,

My point is that “they” should not be in prison, “they” should be dead. I’m sorry that you don’t want to be like the barbarians but if we don’t fight like our enemies, we will become a bunch of subjugated nutless pussies like you.

By Archie

June 20, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Bosch,

My point is that “they” should not be in prison, “they” should be dead. I’m sorry that you don’t want to be like the barbarians but if we don’t fight like our enemies, we will become a bunch of subjugated nutless pussies like you.

By DumbAmericans

June 20, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

You dumb silly Americans are so pathetic it is pitiful. You have all lost your bearings and are clearly clueless.

So sad.

By Michael Smith

June 20, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

So here is another liberal warning us that if we don’t clean up our act the world will lose respect for us.

Utter and total nonsense. The majority of the world hates us and always will, no matter what we do, no matter how we kow-tow to their wishes and demands.

All in all, the performance of our military in Iraq and Afghanistan has been outstanding. Has it been perfect? No, of course not; any collection of 150,000+ people will include some rotten ones. But as one other poster pointed out, those who’ve mistreated prisoners have been put on trial and sent to jail.

I personally don’t give a damn what the rest of the world thinks — or what any liberal here in America thinks, for that matter. Of course, using the words “liberal” and “thinks” in the same sentence is something of a contradiction.

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Archie,

So you think we should line up all the prisoners at Guantanamo and cut their heads off with dull knives on national television?

And when we capture a prisoner on the battlefield, even if it’s one we think may be guilty, not sure - we should just shoot them?

By JackLeg

June 20, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Hey, DumbAmericans if you hate it here so much you are free to go back where you came from. Or please become a Darwin Award.

By Willie

June 20, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Jay why are you and all the liberals so worried about what the world thinks of us? Is that the liberal mind? Everyone must like you or you must do everything to get everyone to like you? I really want to know. Personally, I do not care what the world or Especially Europe and the Middle East think of me or my country. My ancestors left that crap hole and came to America over 300 years ago. Guess what? To me its still a crap hole. While I was in service I saw it first hand. Jay do you and the liberals want a King?

By Peter

June 20, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Hey Dusty is a 2.7 Trillion dollar WAR considered “Conservative”?

Thank you!

By Joe

June 20, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Jay, you’re hammering on cold steel, but keep om swinging ! When this nation looks upon the Sermon on the Mount, the Magna Carta, the US Constitution, and Article Three of the Geneva Convention as nothing more than quaint prose, we are done.

By James

June 20, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

To Bosch:

You didn’t read my points closely. I don’t like it when “either” side makes up stuff in the Constitution. It cheapens it! It says what it says (which is what any written contract does) or amend it if you can !

Sorry about the other day. I got busy. What does that stand for again?

By mike

June 20, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

With the recent ruleing on trials for terrorist they have more legal rights than soldiers.Now people want them to have better quarters and treatment.The conditions and service in fighting them is torture if you want to get down to it.To paint the whole war as criminal is criminal.

By To Bud Wiser

June 20, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

“It is soooooo typical of leftists to resort to name-calling, screaming, foaming at the mouth, or other forms of hysteria when presented with ugly little ‘inconvenient truths’ that do not agree with their agenda.”

Yet, you start out your rant with name calling when you called CJ a punk. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!

By SackSniffer

June 20, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Americans do not have the stomach to do what needs to be done. When you dig up a snake pit of vipers you do not kill the parents then raise the children, you kill all of them so that future generations don not come back to bite you.

By Michael Smith

June 20, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Peter, that 2.7 trillion dollar figure is preposterous. That number is approximately our TOTAL defense spending for the last 5 years.

By James

June 20, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

To Bosch:

Regarding prisoners on the battlefield. Yes, if you are “out of uniform” you are shot (check the Geneva convention)! These terrorists are not part of a standing army with uniforms but that’s their problem. All they have to do is adopt a uniform and insignia and wear it 24/7 just like our troops or any other civilized nation’s troops do. In other words, you don’t get to take it off and blend in with the civilians. If you do and are caught - guess what? BANG! If you want to attack our troops in Iraq or Afghanistan or even here in the U.S. or on a plane you had better have the uniform on and visible at all times or you get “Eisenhowered”!

It’s just that simple.

By T

June 20, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Maybe they could just try asking them really nicely if they are planning to kill anyone. If that doesn’t work then they could just say please tell me.

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

James,

TANF - Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or as conservatives call it - welfare.

Judges interpret the law, they don’t make stuff up - sometimes people don’t like the way they interpret the law and they scream “judicial activism.” It’s like screaming “that’s not fair” - or in other words, whining.

By WillM

June 20, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Someone here said: “It is soooooo typical of leftists to resort to name-calling”

That’s classic. I think I’ll be smiling all day after that one.

By rightytighty

June 20, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Why do liberals by pass the horrors of the entitled to demonize the military!?

====> He was covered in cigarette burns, including to his genitals. He couldn’t fully open his hand because it had been burned on a stove. His tooth was broken with a nerve exposed. And he had been made to sit in his own urine and feces.

As the 5-year-old remains hospitalized by kidney failure brought on from malnutrition,blame is being directed at welfare and law enforcement agencies for missing earlier chances to rescue the child from what police say were months of “unbearable psychological and physical abuse.”

By slim

June 20, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Everyone here should read the book ‘Blowback’, and learn the truth behind our government.

We don’t torture Islamists—we give them nobel prizes and praise them as great ‘moderates’ as they declare that they merely want to kill all Jews.

Go to tenc and read the truth about our war against the Serbs.

The CIA is torturing more Serbs, ‘dual loyalty’ Jews, and Roma than it is torturing Islamists.

By Tom

June 20, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Four reported being sodomized and subjected to anal probing. Sunshine and Thunder said: “This sounds like fraternity hazing.” I’m glad I was not in his fraternity - sounds like Sunshine was having a good time in college!!

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

rightytighty,

Why do wingnuts compare apples to oranges?

By Jim's a Cherry Picker

June 20, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Wow Jay….you really stirred it up today.

My favorite excuse for the current leadership is that “we haven’t had another terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11”…so whatever they’re doing is justifified.

By that logic Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were both better defenders of the homeland than W….they didn’t have any attacks on their watch. And I don’t believe that thousands of service men lost their lives either.

Matter of fact, both of those administrations were beset by relative peace and prosperity.

By Dusty

June 20, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Peter,10:21

No, I do not consider a question from you about a “2.7 trillion War” as conservative. I consider it the presentation of a BIG LIE by a liberal.

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Good morning Dusty! How are you today?

By Willie

June 20, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Every liberal: (saying liberal is like saying the “N” word or DumbA$$ or “SOB” etc.etc…If its vile and disgusting you are for it…homosexuals, gay marriages, having a promiscuos life style….or loving every country but America…so morally and religously what is the difference in sodomy and torture. My conservative friends do their best to reason with you but liberals will not reason and they profess to be so educated. They are so blind in their sovereign government destroying ideology. If it has tradition and it gets in their way of having sex they want to change the government. That applies to lot of things also. The liberal environmentalist will tear down America and create two classes of people, the rich and the poor, just to have their way. They will destroy us all trying to save us all…what weakness. I rather be called a baby raper than a liberal….is that strong enough for you…

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Willie@11:03,

You forgot to close your parentheses.

By WillM

June 20, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Willie says:

[“saying liberal is like saying the “N” word or DumbA$$ or “SOB” etc.etc…If its vile and disgusting you are for it…homosexuals, gay marriages, having a promiscuos life style….or loving every country but America…so morally and religously what is the difference in sodomy and torture”]

Now let me see if I’ve got your profile nailed:

you’re white, male, not poor but certainly not affluent, not particularly well-educated (let me guess: probably a college dropout?), don’t go to church much, but your parents were Protestant, and your radio dial stays pretty much on 640 AM, certainly between 12-3 pm for Rush, though you switch over to hear Hannity in the afternoons, but back in the evenings for Levin. You love the state political leadership, exc. for that rotten degenerate sellout Perdue who caved on the flag issue like a frikin bleeding heart idiot. (We won’t even bother with what you think of the turncoat McCain.)

So what part of the hominem in the ad hominem did I not get spot on?

By Michael

June 20, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

The United States was abolished by the courts during the coup that installed the chimperor into office in 2000. The chimperor and his clan, the Coalition of the Chilling, established the People’s Republic of Vulgaria on the ruins of the old republic. In the People’s Republic of Vulgaria, there is no such thing as rule by law. In the chimperor’s chimpire, facts are not facts. In the chimperor’s chimpire, life is for the rich and strong. Long live the chimperor and his chimpire!

A hundred years from now, the children of China will begin each day by marching out into their shoolyard to gather around a statue and sing a song. It will be a song of gratitude to the Father of Modern China, colossus of the new new world order. The statue they sing around will be of the father of modern China. It will be a statue of the chimperor. The children of China, like us, will praise the chimperor and his chimpire. Long live the chimperor and the People’s Republic of Vulgaria!

By James

June 20, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

To Bosch:

Three things:

1) TANF sure. But even if I didn’t or never adopt a child, what I do doesn’t matter to that unborn child. It still has the right to exist. By the way, did you take my suggestion and when you said your prayers the other night thank the Lord that your mother didn’t abort you?

2) You are wrong. There are judges that have an agenda. Look at it this way. Let’s suppose the woman’s sufferage (voting) amendment had never been passed in the 1920’s and a woman brought suit today for that right. Do you think today’s Supreme Court would rule that she did have the right to vote? Of course they would and THAT WOULD BE WRONG WITHOUT AN AMENDMENT! Don’t CHEAPEN the Constitution by making it say something it doesn’t.

3) I know this is not the blog for this but I like debating you on the “babies” issue. Can you give me two instances when an Ameican citizen has no right to control his/her own body? (Hint - has nothing to do with criminals, late term abortion, etc.).

By serving soldier

June 20, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

You Liberals are so correct. We shouldn’t torture. Let’s just do exactly what the insurgents do. I think now when we capture a insurgent we will just Cut their heads off or skin them alive while video taping it. At least the guys at CNN won’t call it torture. As a soldier currently serving, I can only pray I will be treated like what the people at Guantanamo are being treated. We know they kill their prisoners but not till they are truly tortured.

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

June 20, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Scumbags that equivocate about torture and who make excuses for George W. Hitler are as disgusting as any other Nazi. Justice is coming to a little dictator near you b***!

By Copyleft

June 20, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Again, I agree with the Bush crowd. Since Bad People have been chopping off heads, that makes it okay for us to do the same. Because we’re better than them… or something.

And hey, some of our people were killed! Any random person we grab off the streets deserves to be tortured in retaliation—or better yet, killed. Especially if they had nothing to do with it! Since when does guilt or innocence matter?

Every prisoner taken by our armed forces and intelligence agencies is, by definition, guilty. And that includes the ones that were later cleared and released. Who cares what happens to them?

I have seen the light, brothers and sisters! Everything America does is good and right, because America’s doing it! Therefore, anyone who questions it must HATE AMERICA.

It’s so refreshing to just turn off the brain and let Rush do all the thinking for us….

By Willie

June 20, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

By WillM June 20, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this Hey I thought you liberals were against profiling? See what I mean! I am a college grad, I do not listen to Rush but once a month maybe. I like O’reilly. and you. A college grad who was brainwashed by your professor, no religion except if it feels good do it…if its a tradition change it…and darwin rules and Kings should rule the country..Did I get you right?

By ron

June 20, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

I don’t usually get into this discusion on what happened to the prisoners but I will tell you this.Had I been in charge,there would have been a lot fewer prisoners to abuse.

By max

June 20, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” George Orwell

Thank God for our rough men and for those who strive for peace. 2 sides, same coin.

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

June 20, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Ron, it’s Nazi murderers with attitudes exactly like yours that will be brought before the bar of justice. Give up your genocidal fantasy and get “em fries up boy!

By Blind Homer

June 20, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Only losers like Saddam are tried and punished for their crimes. Winners are never war criminals. Did they put Truman on trial for firebombing and nuking all those Japanese women and children? One day even the bleeding hearts will realize that we have to kill them all before they kill us, and by any means necessary.

By Greg

June 20, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Jay, you just gotta respond to sunshine and thunder @ 6:11 PM.

You just gotta…(‘cause I can’t stop laughing).

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

James,

Glad to see you’re not a hypocrit on the TANF issue.

I don’t pray like you do, I feel sure; and when I do pray, I don’t pray for such grotesque things like you mentioned. To pray for thanks for not being aborted is truly absurd and grotesque.

On my birthday each year, should I thank my mom for not aborting me? My daughter’s birthday was Wednesday, maybe I should have told her to be thankful we didn’t abort her. I’ll bet that would have brightened the party real well.

I’m assuming your third point earlier is to demonstrate that fetuses do not have control over their bodies. Otherwise - I’m not following what you’re asking.

As far as abortion goes, I don’t like debating it, and a few months ago, I vowed never to do it again because it always brings out such hatred and absurdity in my opinion.

I’m pro-choice, that doesn’t mean I believe in abortion - I don’t think anyone runs around claiming “Yeah, let’s go kill some babies today.” I think it is a choice between a mother, her doctor, and God.

Judges? I still stand by my opinion. Opinions are like a*****, everybody’s got one.

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

Willie@11:52,

You should never start a sentence with “and,” and if you do, it should be capitalized.

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

James,

Just noticed I left this out -

The Constitution does not address everything - nor can it address things that will happen as a society grows and opinions change - the woman’s sufferage example you gave is still just an interpretation - the Constitution is an organic document as it should be so that events that we can not possibly imagine can be addressed based on past precedences or new interpretations - and many times a new interpretation is simply based on one side presenting a better grounded legal argument.

Judicial activism is a myth - it is the other side screaming “that’s not fair” when a judge interprets the law in a way you don’t agree with.

By Grandfather

June 20, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Torture is racist

By James

June 20, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Bosch:

Forget #1 & #2. You’re no fun.

a) If you have a deadly communicable disease you no longer have the right to control your own body. It’s rare now but the “state” will lock you up to protect the “right to life” of others !

b) But here is one I really want you to think about:

When I was a young man of 19 I found myself in Vietnam as a Marine grunt. 58,000+ were killed in that war and approximately 17,000 were draftees who didn’t want to be there. I served with many of them.

At that time, the “state” could tell a young man that they (the state) were going to control his body not for just 9 months but for 2 years. Unlike a pregnant woman, they forced you to leave your family, home, wife, girlfriend, job, school, dog and FORCED you to go to a country and a war you did not support where other men would try to KILL or maim you for life. Many returned with physical and emotional scars that can never heal. Here’s the kicker, the U.S. Supreme Court during that time ruled that the DRAFT was Constitutional. What was their reasoning? They said the drafting of a man in military service was the most serious invasion of his right to privacy that could be done but it was NECESSARY as the “state had the right to exist” in time if war. I submit that telling a woman she has to carry that child to term is the most serious invasion of her right to privacy that can be done BUT it is NECESSARY as “that child has the right to exist”!

Granted, we are not drafting now but it’s just a matter of time until we get into another big one. By the way, the Supreme Court has also ruled that women can’t be drafted. Interesting!

Now you tell me HOW the Supreme Court could draft men to be killed (17,000 drafted men in the V.N. war alone died not to mention WWII and Korea) and turn around at the same time and say women have a right to privacy for their bodies?

1) The men drafted did nothing wrong. The women (and their partner) let “themselves” get pregnant.

2) Shouldn’t the decision to go to war be between just a man and his minister ?

3) Women always say “if men could get pregnant”……well, “if women could be drafted” ……

You can say it’s apples and oranges if you want to but for the apples (the men) it’s much worse because when your dead your dead.

By Grandfather

June 20, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Sentence’s beginning with and are racist.

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

June 20, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Blind Homer Simpson, you are a complete moron and a Republican. You, undoubtedly, support the right to life movement and the death penalty. Bet you knock down the door of the church at 11:00 every Sunday morning. Scumbag!

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

James,

I just saw your 12:58 - I have to run out for a bit and don’t have time right now to respond - kind of like you getting busy the other day.

Later.

By Fix-It

June 20, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

I love the way liberals justify being pansies by saying, nobody in the world likes us. SO WHAT, this is not a popularity contest. Remember doing the right thing is harder, and less liked, than doing the wrong thing. The wrong thing is to appease people who could care less if we are dead.

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

June 20, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Fix, you wouldn’t know the right thing if it slapped your couch warrior butt into the middle of next week. Shut the hell up and send in another donation to the fascist zero Mcmoron!

By Willie

June 20, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

By Fix-it…I am with you! I do not care what Europe and the rest of the world think of us only liberals do…liberals hate us and America…Where can they go…everyone else who hates us is trying to come here….imagine that!

By Blind Homer

June 20, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Algonquin - Thanks for displaying your own intellect by resorting to a personal attack instead of refuting anything I said. BTW, I’m an independent. I’ve voted in every presidential election since ‘72 but never for the Republican or Democrat candidate. I’m pro-choice and in favor of the death penalty. I haven’t been to church in years, and the last time I looked an IQ of 145 was not defined as a moron. So you’re correct about the death penalty, but wrong about everything else. Perhaps you should leave the psychic network predictions to Ms. Warwick?

By Gumbo

June 20, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Hey Bookman,

Is it true that you are still waiting for the first time in YOUR life that you can be proud of your country??

Have Faith, Bookman. The socialist America that you long for is just around the corner. Of course, those of us who believe in life, liberty and prperty will have relocated to the formerly socialist (and ever more free) continent of Europe, leaving you and your ilk to wallow in the stagnant mire that you will have created……

Enjoy!

By James

June 20, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

To Bosch:

10-4

I’ll wait but PLEASE (pretty please with sugar on it) don’t just come back with a “but I still think”, etc.

Please tell me WHY the rulings could be so different and if you think that is just.

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

June 20, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

So you’re OK with torture, murder, unjustified subjugation and oppression of people Willie? You’re a great guy. I bet you won’t have to go to Europe to find someone to despise you. Just look around your trailer park b***!

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

June 20, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

By Blind Homer June 20, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this Only losers like Saddam are tried and punished for their crimes. Winners are never war criminals. Did they put Truman on trial for firebombing and nuking all those Japanese women and children? One day even the bleeding hearts will realize that we have to kill them all before they kill us, and by any means necessary.

The crimes of George W. Hitler are far worse than anything Hussein did. As for winners never being brought up on war crimes charges, you may be correct but we aren’t winning! Truman wasn’t tried in this life but, hopefully, he’s at hard labor in the next life. Your call for genocide is troubling, idiotic and indicative of the sickness that is republican. You deny your affiliation and I don’t blame you for lying but it’s obvious what you are. As for your IQ, 145 sounds awfully high for an imbecilic twit such as yourself!

By Willie

June 20, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

By Algonquin J. Calhoun June 20, 2008 2:03 PM “So you’re OK with torture, murder, unjustified subjugation and oppression of people Willie? “ONLY IF IT IS LIBERALS! |Wow, you sure can read between the lines..huh! Or is that just liberal indoctrination. ajc…I would rather be called a baby raper than a liberal.

By CommunistAJC

June 20, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Jay, Can you please pick a topic OTHER than I hate Bush, I hate Bush and I hate Bush? You have this penned up anger towards the president and I sure hope that the Secret Service is watching you.

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

James,

How can I resist when you asked pretty please AND sugar on top.

You’ve obviously given this alot of thought, and I commend you for your service in Vietnam.

The way I see it, both decisions are based on laws that existed. The draft hasn’t been declared illegal (I think) - it’s just not used. During Vietnam, Korea, WWII it was used - now it’s not - but it could be reinstated, but a majority of the people in the U.S. are not for it - even the military isn’t all for it so much now.

Roe v. Wade - still law - and a majority of the population wants to keep it a law.

Interpretation of laws can change - still not activism by radical judges with agendas. Believe me, there’ve been some decisions I’ve certainly disagreed with (like Bush v. Gore, 2000), but again, it was just a legal opinion I didn’t like.

People forget how powerful and important the Supreme Court is.

By Blind Homer

June 20, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Al - We defeated Hussein’s regime. We are occupying Iraq because we defeated them (won). Was w justified in invading Iraq? Of course not. The only good that has come of it is the occupation has attracted thousands of terrorists (because of the chance to kill American infidels), so we’ve managed to kill a lot of them. Unfortunately, I suspect we may have created more terrorists through the occupation than we have killed. Is this winning the war on terror? Am I the only one that thinks bombing, than occupying, than rebuilding the infrastructure we bombed to start with is madness? Just because they hide among the citizens and refuse to identify themselves as lawful combatants, that doesn’t make us responsible for sorting them out! So we can pull out, like we did after the Gulf war, and let them rebuild and attack us again, as they did and will, or we can kill them all and end the threat. BTW, since you attempt to sound righteous and appear to think America should take the high moral ground in this war, why don’t you apply the same logic to your war with me and drop the name calling?

By Lulu

June 20, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

If torturing a man will prevent another 911, then I say the positive terminal attaches to the scrotal sac piercing, and the negative terminal attaches to the nipple ring.

I dont believe another 911 is possible because look at 911. Men stepped onto an airplane. No big WMD. No evil genius with grandiose plans involving thousands of men.

Just 19 men getting on airplanes. That’s it.

We’ve been suckered, duped, and our shock and grief was taken advantage of by heartless pirates.

Boo!

James @ 12:58 were you in the Ga national guard?

If you yell “slut” in a crowded theatre and people start groping each other then you could be liable so free speech doesn’t work all the time, man. You should have known that being the GA Nat. Guard.

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

James,

Just had another thought:

Maybe like the draft, one day, we’ll not have the need for Roe v. Wade - that would be a nice day.

By nobama08

June 20, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Wow, a stinging report from a malcontent. Its amazing when former Clinton officials, many of whom were not fired or forced to retire, write about the abuses in that administration and they are automatically labeled liars and crackpots. Meanwhile any retired major general who wanted his 3rd star and didn’t get it can slander our nation and military with praise and honor from the media, what a joke. You should be ashamed of yourself Bookman, you along with the rest of the media in this country that actually wish us to lose.

By Filster

June 20, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Wah wah wah. When are the liberal left going to wake up and realize all of this Iraq/Afghanistan/insert middle east country here bruhah is but th ebeginning of a jihad. Islam teaches convert willingly, convert by the sword, or die. There is no middle ground. These people willingly blow up women and children, and you;re concerned about tortue being used on them or that they might be deprived of a few “rights?” These same people sure took a great deal of care with Daniel Pearl’s rights. Bookman, I wonder how you will like wirting only strictly construed, must be approved in advance, religion is this way and only this way little articles if islam takes over the world. Then again, you’ll probably be wearing a burkha so you won’t have to worry about working. Just walk seveal steps behind whomever is your master.

By James

June 20, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

To Bosch:

I appreciate your response but ….

1) How could the Supreme Court have made those two rulings just a short time apart? It’s o.k. to force a man to go get killed but you can’t force a woman to carry a child to term? Put yourself in time back then? What was the rationale’? I’ll tell you. They had an “agenda” so they make the “law” fit their personal beliefs. You can’t rectify those two decisions and I think you know that. THAT’S WHAT ACTIVIST JUDGES DO and they continue to do it.

2) Now jump ahead to today. Sooner or later we are going to have to draft fresh recruits BUT we are in effect doing it today via the “backdoor draft” where troops are forcibly kept beyond their enlistment. These men are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan. The “state” is controlling their body against their will in a war they don’t want to be in. What it one was your son?

So when some woman says, “but you can’t get pregnant or you would feel differently” guess what she hears from me! Talk about a double standard.

P.S. Don’t feel bad. Every attorney I have presented this scenario to (and a judge) has just shaken their head and said - “you got them (the Supreme Court) on this one.”

Oh, Perfidious nation.

By Fix-It

June 20, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Hey Algonquin J. Calhoun, If Bush is such a criminal how come he is not in jail? Does that make you smart to call people names? I don’t understand the hard left, name calling does not get any results, and does it make you feel smarter? It sure does not make you look intelligent. The truth of the matter is if Bush could be impeached or put in jail then it would be done, but blind hatred of somebody does not qualify for either punishment.

By Alex

June 20, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

It frightens me that so many seem to get a sadist delight in anything that casts our country in a bad light - when it is true, when it isn’t true, when they can’t know for sure one way or another. The excitement and glee is almost palpable.

It also scares me that people - I’m not saying liberal or conservative here because both groups can fit in - seem to think that war ought to be fair, or somehow nice. It isn’t. And can’t be. That’s why they should be avoided when at all possible and - when it isn’t possible - why they should be prosecuted quickly and with no mercy. Ask someone who knows - it’s actually the best way to get it over quickly and, in the end, to leave less suffering behind.

It also amazes me that there’s the belief that wars can be conducted - by humans - and have no mistakes, no bad judgments. Think in your own life, in your job, of the mistakes you make where there is no fog of war, no panic, no fear that you’ll be killed, no anguish that your buddy just was killed. Mistakes are made. How could it be otherwise.

Somehow we’ve tried to sanitize the whole process and hold it to higher standards than what you’d find in an auto production assembly line. No tolerance for mistakes, no forgiveness for them. No understanding that they can not be avoided.

In any 24 hour period - there are more mistakes made in combat than you could begin to count. But that shouldn’t diminish the courage and the intent of the men and women on the ground (smile, I guess those in the air and on the seas too).

By Ms Tucker If Ur Nasty

June 20, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

You finaggle your guy into office, he screws up mightily, babbles like a frigging dunce, shipwrecks the economy, and all of a sudden right thinking Americans aren’t patriotic if they don’t go along with the foolishness. My pet possum could’ve gotten the same results, and at least he’d have eaten all of the garbage he spred around.

By ByteMan

June 20, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

James: I think I can answer #1 for you.

The draft is a Federal government thing, not a State government thing. The Supremes regularly defer to other branches of the Federal Government provided that the Constitution doesn’t say otherwise. That’s why they refuse to get involved in conflict between the other two branches if they can help it.

RvW was in response to two things: (1) the time in history and (2) the patchwork of state law that was becoming unworkable.

The time in history: the pill came into regular use for pregnancy control in 1960. By the late ‘60’s, the sexual mores were loosening. By 1972, divorce was becoming more common, the ERA finally made it out of Congress, and women were being more vocal about being second-class citizens. So the idea that women shouldn’t be held hostage to a fetus was completely in keeping with the time.

As for the patchwork of laws: If you have a state that declares that killing a fetus is murder and a woman travels over state lines to have an abortion, that might violate Federal laws. Except that killing a fetus wasn’t against Federal law. The patchwork was becoming unworkable. Into this, the Supremes decided to go with the available science of the day and make a ruling to get the patchwork under control. Personally, I don’t think they did any worse than 500+ congresspeople could have come up with, except that the congresspeople would also have allocated money to pet projects back home as part of the bill.

Anyway, history seems to have a way of catching up with us.

By Bud Wiser

June 20, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

If Algonquin J. Calhoun is an American Indian, it is soooooo easy to see why they lost everything to the white invaders.

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

June 20, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Spare us any more of your flatulence Fix-it, you are stinkin’ up the place. Bush has not been brought to justice yet but his crimes cry out for redress and the day will come when he will be in the dock to answer for his lies, misrepresentations and atrocities. Just because that day hasn’t come yet doesn’t mean it will never come! As for the name calling, you’re a fascist tool so be proud of what you are!

By Bosch

June 20, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Um, James, like I said, you’ve obviously thought about this more than me and I see your point - but I see ByteMan’s too.

Sometimes inerpretation of laws (which I still think it is) - is solely based on popular opinion of the time.

Today - most people do not believe in the draft (even the back door kind) and most people believe in a woman’s right to chose an abortion. What can I say.

Who knows? I don’t.

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

June 20, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Bud, you’re drunk!

By Bud Wiser

June 20, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

hic It’s Friday isn’t it? Got my beer, my girl friend, a new trailer, six year old truck with no back window, and….THE DEMS ARE COMIN TO WASHINGTON TO RULE AN I’LL NEVER HAS TO WORK AGIN! More free s* from Uncle Sam will set me up in fine comfort fo sho. So what’s the beef?

By Bud Wiser

June 20, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Pass me the fire water Kimo Sabe.

By Gmab

June 20, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

After years of disclosures by government investigations, media accounts, and reports from human rights organizations

Make that dem led investigations and a liberal media.

Human rights organizations that globetrot the planet have dropped the ball in every instance. Bench ‘em, they’re worthless to anyone but themselves.

Bookit to any country outside the westerns. Bleed someplace else. Then come back with your grievances Jay.

Have you heard Jay? Murtha’s azz may get sued for his false accusations against the Haditha marines.

By James

June 20, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

To ByteMan and Bosch:

Well, appreciate the comments but here’s the answer:

1) They had an agenda regarding the draft. The majority wanted to get rid of the draft but they knew they COULDN’T get away with that. Congress would have started the Constitutional Amendment process in record time and the Supreme Court would have had to have eaten crow.

2) They had an agenda regarding abortion. The majority wanted to get rid of all the abortion laws and they knew they COULD get away with that so they made a ruling based on a right in the Constitution THAT DID NOT EXIST.

If there was an ABSOLUTE right to privacy in the Constitution then men could not be drafted - period - end of discussion.

The bottom line is that then (and now) women have more of a right to privacy than men and THAT is not “equal protection under the law”.

What a travesty ………

I rest my case.

By sam

June 20, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

You guys are lonely aren’t you? Do any of you have jobs? Some of you have been going at this all day!

Jay, tell these fools to go back to work!!

By JAY BOOKMAN

June 20, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

No way, Sam. That would be like a stripper telling all her customers to go back home to their wives.

By James

June 20, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

To Sam:

Lighten up buddy. I’m fully retired, working on a book and other things and enjoy jumping over here for entertainment and mental exercise. Aren’t you jealous !

By Bud Wiser

June 20, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

It’s never lonely here at the trailer park! Got my six pack of Colt 45, my girlfriend, loud country music, and the neighbor’s 13 year old daughter is dancing like crazy in my driveway right now!

And WORK? Why do you think I vote Democrat? Hell, quit my job as a janitor at the laundromat when they nabbed Congress a couple years back. No Need. They’ll give me everything I need to survive, just ask ‘em! All I got to do is vote Democrat Party for government every time comes due, and it’s party time in the old yard!

I betcha when ole Obamma or whatever his name is gets elected, the cash will start rollin in for sure! More food stamps, free cheese and corn chips, more welfare for my girlfriend after I knock her up a few more times, and reparations (my uncle told me we had some black folk in our family tree, so thought I’d apply), and I’ll have enough money so’s I won’t have to sell blood any more just to buy beer!

Yessir, life is great! Did I mention that I cashed my girlfriend’s last work check a few months ago, bought some lottery tickets, and won enought money to pay off my truck, and her Ford Pinto? Still need to get a window in the back of my truck though since we went out the night we hit it big, and she got so drunk that when we got back to the trailer park, I hit the brakes a little too hard and she bounced off the dash and busted it out! Damnedest luck, but at least she didn’t drop her cigarette on the seat and burn it, and the baby is okay.

Oh well, music’s gettin louder, neighbor’s gettin drunker, and his daughter’s lookin better! Gotta go.

Peace.

By Abomi Nation

June 20, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

I’m on welfare Sam. I have all day to spend here.

Jay’s right. Why would he want people to not post here? ajc.com pays Jay $1.00 for every post made on his blog. The Bush lovers are making him rich, posting non-stop all day long on how much of a liberal socialist commie he is.

Think about this! You taxpayers are paying me to blog too! Lol. I post about 10 times a day. I figure I make $2.00 a post. Thanks taxpayers!

By Reasoner

June 20, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

George Bush is a war criminal. He has violated the Constitution and federal law. It’s high crimes. Bush should be in jail and where’s Bin Laden.

Bush is still unable to catch a 6 foot 6 man running around with a kidney machine.

By Algonquin J. Calhoun

June 20, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

Reasoner, if GWH really wanted to find bin laden all he has to do is go down into the basement of the White House.

By Dave

June 20, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

it just gives jay another chance to take a cheap shot, you don’t expect him to pass do you?

By Phil

June 20, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

90% of the conservative (redneck) commentators so far—the ones who think they are the real Americans—have no concept whatsoever about what America is about. To anyone who’s sick enough to believe we should torture—kill them all so they want be prisoners, etc. (good Bubba comment), there’s no rational reason to argue with them. They are the idiots who believe in “intelligent design”; that Iraq was involved with 9/11; that Obama is a Muslim … Just let them keep spewing their garbage—it will help ensure that the current criminals are voted out of office.

By Constructive Feedback

June 20, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

I laugh at the left often. They have waged an “Anti-Bush” War while America has gone after those who intend to do us harm.

After listening to this human rights attorney on NPR yesterday (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91684540) I am more convinced than ever that you guys are clueless.

Sleep Deprivation, playing loud music, having to stand in uncomfortable positions, bringing dogs close by to elicit fear, altering the room temperature to extremes. This is what this guy called TORTURE. Alone they might seem trivial……all together they seriously impact the psychotic state of the detainee.

Any support that you receive from me with respect to my agreement that when the US personnel should not involve themselves in purely gratuitous acts for their own amusement using detainees - is lost on the fact that the “Anti-America Americans” are using this to embarrass and attack America.

Here is my fundamental believe:

For the high minded theories that you lefties have to work properly - You need someone who GIVES A DAMN about what you think as who is attempting to live up to some standard. When you all get an outfit like the one we are fighting they don’t care about what you think. The only recourse that you all have is to fight your war AGAINST BUSH. At least he would not separate your head from your torso upon hearing your protests.

Jay Bookman: You do in literary form what Mike Luckavich does with his pencil - make cartoons that are laughable.

By donald

June 20, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

People are missing the point. Even in war there are rules of engagement and Bush et al either broke them or stretched the laws so thin as to make a mockery of them. The reason why Bush et al. should be impeached is that they 1) started an illegal conflict that was NEVER officaally declared a war and 2) ursurped the boundaries of what was deemed legal in treatment of prisioners. People, we are suppose to be the world’s policeman! Like it our not, our ideals and morals hold us to a higher standard. Once we break that standard, then other countries will have justification(s) to do the same. Bush et al actions has seriously eroded the confidence AND credability other nations had in us.

With that being said, I don’t want to see Bush et al. impeached, that is too good for them. I want all of those scumbags, including Bush, to head to Iraq after they leave office and be amongst the Iraqi people they claimed they freed. And I don’t mean the “green zone” or a military base. I want them front and center living with the Iraqis, cleaning up the mess they got this country into and not leaving until it is complete. We the American people should DEMAND THIS!!

By Chris

June 20, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Wait a minute donald, the truth about Bush and Cheney’s Iraq conspiracy will emerge soon enough, and when the American people realize what actually transpired, Bush and Cheney will have no place to hide.

They wont be able to go anywhere without getting boo’d loudly by everyone who sees them.

Ditto their family and anyone like condi rice, rummy, etc. that’s why the press secretary and other rats are jumping ship: they know what’s coming and are distancing themselves from it.

What is the big bomb? Saudi Royal Family ties to Cheney’s Golden Parachute is a defacto coup over our foreign policy making duties of the executive branch. Bush and Cheney sold it.

I know it. You know it. the American people WILL know it.

.

By Bud Wiser

June 21, 2008 7:19 AM | Link to this

You mindless idiots on the left are all the same; you all blame George Bush for everything from the economy going bad to the toilet clogging up, when it is the Fed lowering the prime every other week to devalue the dollar and help boost the price of oil, and, it is your brains you are flushing down the can.

Does anybody not remember the horror, the sadness, the overwhelming anger of that Tuesday morning, September 11, 2001, when we watched on national television, the insanity of radical Islamists when they murdered over 3000 Americans, and how it was done? That was not a few boys out joy riding in daddy’s plane…..that was anything as evil, as vile, as contemptible to be committed against humanity, as Adolph Hitler did. I remember. These animals must be exterminated, because they have no value on human life, except how many they can take. And you moronic liberals want to “talk” to them, make nice with them, give up looking for these murderous fiends because you are so worried about what the rest of the world thinks of us? You disgust me. Your hatred of GWB has blinded you so severely that you are incapable of reasoning what must be done. I agree to a large extent that GWB may well go down in history as a President regarded worse than even Jimmy Carter (one of your Arab suck-ups, by the way), but it will be for a lot of things other than the pursuit and elimination of Muslim terrorists worldwide.

By Copyleft

June 23, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

Exactly what I’ve been trying to tell them, Bud!

We were ATTACKED on 9/11. Bad Stuff happened. Therefore, the rulebook and the Constitution go out the window, and we can attack anybody else, do whatever we want, in retaliation—even if they turn out to be completely innocent.

Because we’re at WAR, dangit! Freedom and honor are just some of those high-minded liberal principles that we can’t afford when the chips are down. KILL! ‘Cuz we’re ANGRY!

By susan

June 23, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

All the evidence that speaks out against the Neo-conservative nightmare we are living in exists in a cloud like and formless diffusion, that never clearly takes shape as it should.

Dick Cheney, George Bush and company have screwed this country upside down and sideways.

All of their crimes together will never take shape as they should before the gaze of public scrutiny until democracy can find some way of finding a new voice. In the old days the media was the watchdog who sharpened our public awareness of issues requiring attention and correction - who is the watch dog now?

Democracy is in real peril folks if we can’t add what this general is saying to all the other cries for accountablity and justice. This country’s current leadership is this country’s greatest problem; this current emperor and his vice president are wearing no clothes and yet the public voice raised in an outcry over this impossibly corrupt situation is still set on mute.

What can become Democracy’s new voice?

J Book, do you have any ideas?

By Linda G. Richard

June 23, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Excellent piece, I’m posting it to freedetainees.org. I wish people had listened to the report when it first came out. But then if the photos didn’t do it - nothing will. Now we have over 300,000 detainees in Iraq alone. In Afghanistan we have at least that many. We also have 27,000 ghost prisoners in secret prisons around the world.

When will this end? Today I read that among hundreds of thousands of other people on the “no-fly” list, Nelson Mandela is one of them! He isn’t even Muslim. ;-)

This country is insane. I wonder if it isn’t going to be the end of us all.

Peace to you, Linda

By Mark

July 23, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

Dear Mr. Bookman,

If you were even half the American as Michael Savage you would not be worthy of living in this beautiful country. I wish you were forced to move to a third world country and had to fight for freedom to write the trash that you do here by the blood sweat and tears of all the men and women in the armed forces. Get a life and stop taking people out of context. I wish you were confined in Gitmo and that the soldiers that you have soiled with your lies could give you the hospitality you deserve.

By AJC/DNC Management

July 24, 2008 5:47 AM | Link to this

Aahhh, yes, it is everyday that people just up and take two week vacations, usually they decide just hours beforehand, yes indeed.

Jay: Considering that we are having a record breaking cold July here in Hotlanta, I must as-sume that when you say you are “fleeing the heat,” you must mean the heat that Code Pinko has brought upon the new home of the Duh Report, they are calling you every few minutes, aren’t they?

I can’t blame you.

I sincerely hope this isn’t a permanent vacation, although it surely smacks of one, because, as I have said before, I have a new found respect for your abilities, albeit a miniscule amount of respect, but considering my tough standards, you should take great pride in this admission, perhaps even framing this post and displaying on thee fireplace mantel or upon the walls of your cubicle.

No, I’m afraid that I have just chalked up my second AJC blog demise, and although I set upon this mission with much eagerness and determination, now that my stated goals are closing in, I feel a sense of sorrow for all of the blood spilt and hair pulled over the last few years. I’m sure all great warriors do.

Plus I really do not want to bring the insanity down upon Wooten’s operation.

I guess there could be a chance that I’m wrong so allow me to set forth a back up prediction; when your blog returns it will be Mon-Fri, 9:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. with no Jay participation allowed, closed on the weekends.

And to think, all this has been put in place even with me on my best and most measured behavior.

It must be the message, huh?

By albertjames

September 26, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

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