Home > Jay Bookman > Archives > 2008 > May > 15 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThe “Long War” or “Forever War”?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Andrew Bacevich is a former U.S. Army officer, instructor at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and veteran of both Vietnam and the first Gulf War. His son, who followed his father into the Army, was killed a year ago this week in combat in Iraq. Bacevich, now a professor at Boston University and has a very wise op-ed piece in today’s Los Angeles Times.
The key point is here:
“Meanwhile, the immediate danger to the American way of life comes not from terrorists but from our own adamant refusal to live within our means. American profligacy, not Islamic radicals, triggered the mortgage crisis that underlies our current economic distress…. We can either persist in our efforts to change the way (the Islamic world lives) — in which case the war of no exits will surely lead to bankruptcy and exhaustion. Or we can recognize the folly of generational war and choose instead to put our own house in order: curbing our appetites, paying our bills and ending our self-destructive dependency on foreign oil and foreign credit.”
Comments
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By ByteMan
May 15, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Not gonna happen.
For over 25 years, we’ve been conditioned that we can optimistically borrow from tomorrow to pay for today. So far, all evidence points that we can… until the financial trends change and we can’t. But too many people came of age in a time when we could get away with it, so that mindset is going to require a crisis to change. Old habits die hard and there are a lot of people who will cling to denial well past when they should have let go.
By Rather be in Rayle
May 15, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
I have pinched pennies all of my life as a result of just plain not having. One day - when I had two nickels to rub together - I went to one of those “outlet malls” and was overwhelmed by what I saw - blocks and blocks of stuff. If I bought it all - there would be more stuff out there the next day…what’s the point? I do not know what people think is worth going in debt for - except a decent place to live. Everything else is nearly free - it just takes commitment, patience and planning.
By Copyleft
May 15, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
“Eternal war” was the neoconservative dream. Sadly for them, America is waking up.
By Rod Peterson
May 15, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Lamar Alexander is proposing a Manhatten Project-type committment to transforming America’s energy landscape from fossil fuels to clean, renewable energy we make ourselves. This is not a new idea, but it is good to see it advanced in a concrete proposal.
Imagine this, tax credits to encourage people to buy hybrid vehicles by the millions right now. Think that would make a dent in the world oil demand and let the sources of foreign oil know we are serious about ending their hold over us? Yeah it would.
By Dusty
May 15, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
My sympathy to Prof. Bacevich. To lose a son is an unrelenting sorrow. So often, the sorrowing parent turns to some “excuse” that MIGHT have made a difference.
Cindy Sheehan turned to the anti-war, anti-American program, fighting against the very effort for which her son had died.
Mrs.Tillman turned against the army as the culprit, not the terrorists who had killed thousands of Americans in one day causing this country to fight for our future protection.
Prof.Bacewich has turned to ‘conservation’. IF ONLY we had done with less of this and that and oil we MIGHT not be fighting terrorists. That is far fetched but grief driven.
Bookman has no valid reason for his own antiwar liberal pronouncements. Thus he uses another man’s grief to substaniate his own displeasure. That is not a fair comparison.
Our military does not fight and die so someone can reject the very goal of their efforts. I find compassion for the bereaved but not for an anti-war journalist searching for his own excuses.
By Thor
May 15, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
The war in Iraq is costing over $3 billion a week. We aren’t paying for it - our children are! Its criminal.
This war, economic situation, national debt are all due to the worst generation ever… the Baby Boomers. Gimme mine, charge it for the future to pay off, I want it all and I want it now.
They went from peace/love to Yuppies and then into Bush Republicans. I want this Baby Boomer generation to simply go away….
By James
May 15, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
“When civilized man can no longer stand the horror of war and refuses to fight, then he will surely be killed or enslaved by the uncivilized who can.”
Author Unknown
By Thor
May 15, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
James, that’s nice and patriotic - but how does this war end, man? We can’t afford this long term and our great nation is broke?
By James
May 15, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
To Thor:
When do we stop the war in America? The war against crime, murder, rape, assault? We don’t. Evil must be continuously fought because it is always there even though it morphs. If you don’t think Islamic fundamentalism is not evil you are fooling yourself. It is out to kill you and take over this world. We fight it there or here or both but we fight it. My only problem is we are not fighting it “hard enough”.
By Thor
May 15, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
But James, we can’t afford this war for too much longer - the Baby Boomers are retiring and want thier money. Seriously, we don’t have the money to continue this thing forever.
We should have a draft, making every American family involved with this war. That would place a lot of pressure on Washington.
What is the answers? What’s the plan to end this thing? I don’t see one.
By Copyleft
May 15, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
Any time lives are being wasted in our name, we have the right to object, Dusty. This is still America.
By James
May 15, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
Thor:
There should be no plan to “end” the war on terrorism. We must fight it forever. However, we should be wise tactically and strategically and eventually that will mean leaving Iraq and Afghanistan. I will trust my leaders and leave it to those who are doing their best. As to the draft, I am for it but ONLY if it is totally random and fair - meaning that second year medical students make great medics/corpsmen and females should be drafted also in proportion to the numbers needed. As someone once said, “Our military is at war but America is at the mall.” P.S. I like your “handle” - Thor - the God of Thunder/War.
By Chris
May 16, 2008 7:34 AM | Link to this
“In the meantime, what has the Long War achieved? The answer to that question is indisputable: not much.”
Well gee. How much of had the Cold War accomplished by 1952? The loss of China. Stalemate in Korea. Russia with nukes from stolen American plans. Russia about to take the early lead in the space race.
Clearly, we should have quit in 1952 and turned to partisan attacks by demonizing the Democrat Party.
Hmm. Who was President 7 years into the Cold War? Harry Truman? The guy who had approval ratings in the 30s? The guy who folks said would be remembered as the worst President of all time?
We all know that Bookman would have been preaching defeat and surrender in 1952. Why should we be surprised that he does so now?
By Copyleft
May 16, 2008 7:58 AM | Link to this
We all know that Chris in 1972 would have been insisting that we waste MORE money and MORE troops’ lives in Vietnam, for no apparent purpose.
It’s no surprise that he’s pushing the same ignorant, failed agenda today in Iraq.
By Thor
May 16, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this
James,
I agree: we should have a fair and even handed draft with no deferrments. If the upper middle class living in Alpharetta had to contend with their little Johnny going into the USMC rather than his freshman year at Duke… you know what I mean. As it is right now, people have plans to send their kids to college, law school, etc and do not even consider the war because it doesn’t effect them.
I personally think this does America a disservice.
By RealityKing
May 16, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Our liberal 110th Congress just passed a $300 billion dollar farm bill! Who can’t afford to help the oppressed fight for their freedom!!??
I for one, am sure glad that our forefathers didn’t put Andrew Bacevich’s self-destructive dependency concerns over their national security concerns..
By Thor
May 16, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
Farm bill - your back-bencher Saxby Chambliss voted in favor of it too! Saxby’s is just a rubber stamp.
Hey Chris - glad you know about Harry Truman. Unlike Bush, Truman read a lot of books and understood history. Unlike Bush, Truman had the guts to fire his General when he was not happy with the results. Bush just tells us to let the Generals do their job - Harry (and Lincoln) had the guts to push the brass and fire them when the results were not being delivered.
I miss Harry.