Home > Furman Bisher > Archives > 2008 > August > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USIt’s been over and over for Braves
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Yogi Berra may have had a point when he said, “It’s not over till it’s over.” Well, let me say this: That in the case of the Braves, our Braves, it has been over several times. The loyalists just wouldn’t accept the cruel fact.
It was over first early in the season, when Peter Moylan and Rafael Soriano, aces of the bullpen, went down. You lose a pair like that and you may not accept it at the time, but you’re dead. It ain’t like it used to be, when you sent Warren Spahn and Lew Burdette out there and you got your nine innings out of them. You got to be juiced up in the bullpen.
Not just the loss of your best in the bullpen, but — ho, hum — when the chief of staff gambled on the revival of John Smoltz’s weary old arm, and Tom Glavine’s, and on Mike Hampton’s return to a form matching his stupendous salary. Bobby Cox was left to depend on a rookie from Curacao; another rookie who had never pitched above the Pearl, Miss., level; another rookie with an ERA higher than his hometown population; a 30-year-old Mexican rookie set adrift by Seattle, and, of course, Tim Hudson, a veteran of good standing.
If it’s milestones you’re looking for, then this one was the whopper. Hudson himself went down and Mark Teixeira was traded to the Angels. That was the signal. The white flag was hoisted. They threw in the towel. It was, indeed, over. Frankly, not that they had much left in the tank, anyway.
You know, you have to keep kidding yourself. Just a few days ago the Braves were leading the Phillies by five, and got beat. Then they led the Phillies by six, and lost again. (Oh, how handy that Moylan and Soriano bullpen would have been then.) And how a bat like Teixeira’s might have put some runs on the board. In other words, was it necessary to send him packing so soon? He’d have still been as valuable to the Angels as he was then. Get a little more mileage out of him for those five young’uns they’d sent to the Rangers last season.
Actually, it all came crashing down on this old codger last Saturday night. They were playing the Cardinals and losing. Not just losing. The dam broke, there was I, sitting there watching the disaster on television. What’s this? A flashback to the ’80s? When they devised new ways to lose? When they lined up with names like Blocker, James (first name Dion), Virgil, Oberkfell, Thomas (first name Andres) and on the mound, their leading pitcher Rick Mahler, whose record was 9-16 in 1988.
Fast forward to St. Louis, and it takes Charlie Morton 60 pitches to get the first three outs. Later, the game in placed in the hands of a stranger named Matt DeSalvo. By the time he departed, he had thrown 42 pitches, the Cardinals had scored eight runs and the sad fellow left with an earned-run average of 31.50. And a ticket back to the farm at Richmond, where his record was 2-ll. It has been a long time since I’ve been that depressed. I felt that old ’80s sadness creeping inside me, and I wondered — is this it? Is this really the end? Are we really turning the clock back to those dismal days of 3,402 crowds — on a good night — and Chief Noc-a-Homa?
Then danged if they don’t come back the next night and beat the Cards with Campillo and Buddy Carlyle. Jeff Francoeur had sounded the woeful battle cry: “We Need a Win Bad.” He drove in two runs, but his batting average still lurked around .230. It’s the kind of season you wouldn’t wish on a New York Met. What made being trampled by the Cards in that Saturday game smart more than usual, they’d been beaten by another of those bright prospects they traded away to get a one-season fix. Adam Wainwright, of St. Simons Island. You can’t always blame losing on the ones who got away, you have to step up and face the music for bad decisions.
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By Chief Noc-a-Homa
August 26, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
First!
By Chief Noc-a-Homa
August 26, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
I’mmm Baaaackk!! Yes we are finally getting back to the golden age of sorry. So put down those Tomahawks and bring the ole chief back out of retirement. I’m not like Brett Favre being selfish. I’ve been loyal for years to the Braves. I really miss those years we battled for last place.
By Gene
August 26, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
I loved Chief Nocahoma. The 60’s, 70’s, and the 80’s weren’t his fault. And you, sir, are not Nocahoma. When Ted opened his wallet and stopped tinkering with the team, things got better. There was a string of bad luck this season, but there is something wrong. Perhaps Bobby needs to put some off season physical demands on the team. Maybe he needs a conditioning coach. Maybe he needs Leo. The run is over, and Turner is gone. It would be a shame for Cox to go out a loser, but the future is not bright.
By richbrave
August 26, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
WAINRIGHT was a serious blunder as was the 5-TEIXEIRA deal. It really set the organization on a one-way bus trip to Oblivion, Georgia. Ouch, and quintuple ouch.!!!! You hit the nail on the head Mr. BISHER. Good column.
By richbrave
August 26, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
Oh, and don’t forget we gave up a #18 ‘08 pick and let the METS get a sandwich as well for the right to sign the mighty GLAVINE arm. The price of naustalgia.
By brave loser
August 26, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this
braves began downhill slide slowly but surely when the master, greg maddux, left do to the cheapos in atlanta, soon it will be the same braves organization as it was in the 70’s and 80’s when players dreaded becoming an atlanta brave
By Bama
August 27, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this
Yea we’re back to Cox’s first three years with Braves. Bobby’s Glory days are gone and Bobby needs to be.I pray for new blood and better days ahead.
Bisher, I don’t agree with you on BC but I thinks you’re # 1 at AJC.
By Bama
August 27, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
RICHBRAVE….Amen to Glavine.11:08
By bravo
August 27, 2008 6:38 AM | Link to this
Thank you Terry McGuirk. Your leadership through Liberty is s shining example of your ineptness. What are you even doing there?
By The Fight Realtor
August 27, 2008 6:39 AM | Link to this
Maybe it’s time to dump the present to try and get every decent prospect in the organization big-league playing time, and just play for two or three years down the road, a la the Tampa Bay Rays. I’m not even sure, to be honest, what kind of talent there is in Richmond. The future looks mighty bleak right now.
By JSS
August 27, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this
Finally!!! Something from anyone working on Marietta Street resembling a piece of JOURNALISM!!!
By dannycardwell
August 27, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this
time to rebuild around chipper and mccann. seems strange tampa is able to do so well with a 22 million dollar payroll and were close to last place with a 95 million dollar payroll. i would love to see nothing but young guys brought up from the minors next year with a couple quality pitchers in free agency. getting rid of tex in the middle of the season killed this team. it also killed chippers chances at a batting title. theres no way he can compete with albert. albert has a good solid line up in front and behind him. all chipper has is mccann. wren ruined what chance we had of at least some competitive baseball the rest of the year. you know its bad when 8-12 year old kids dont want to go to a braves game because they always lose.
By Keeping It Real
August 27, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this
The Braves built everything around their love for Glavine, Smoltz, Hampton, Chipper and Druw. Unfortunately, they let that love ruin the nucleus of any successful major league team ……a strong farm system that produces good young talent. Has anyone noticed how good the Braves are at trading away young talent for middle aged veterans on the downside in their career. The Braves farm system has made many teams stronger at their own expense. They got McCann and Francouer from the local area, but they missed the Patterson brothers and Brandon Phillips. There is a big problem with Braves management that needs to be cured before the Braves become winners again with a limited budget. Play and pay the young guys in the system like Tampa and Milwaukee and let the old rich guys go. Their time is in the past.
By Ken
August 27, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
MY realization of where we Braves fans are at was a radio broadcast when the announcer described a Chuck James pitch to Corky Miller….DAMMMMNNNNN…Triple A+…or maybe B-…but definitely NOT major league!
By Chris Jackson
August 27, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this
Once again Mr. Bisher you prove how utterly out of touch you are you are the sorriest columnist ever they need to bury you and name a bathroom after you because you are full of crap, either support the Braves or don’t write about them!!! The AJC is supposed to support the sports teams not bash them, and a few of you comments were racial you must be hanging out with T. Moore again Die you idiot!!!!
By Bernie
August 27, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this
I have said for a long time that the Braves need to clean hose on management and that includes Schurholtz, Wren for sure and Bobby Cox. It’s time for Smoltz, Glavine which the Braves gave 8 million and how many times did he pitch this year, Hampton and for sure James to go along with Francouer. Wren won’t spend the money to get quality pitchers or hitters next year you watch.
By TomahawkFlop
August 27, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the late August column telling us that it’s over for the Braves. You’re a real pundit there Furman.
By TomahawkFlop
August 27, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this
Keeping it Real, how could you include the Patterson brothers in your list of players the Braves “missed”? Have you looked at a stat line lately? If you haven’t here you go.
Corey Patterson: .195 BA, .223 OBP, 8 HR, 22 RBI, 13 SB, 9 CS
Eric Patterson: .203 BA, .312 OBP, 1 HR, 10 RBI, 7 SB, 1 CS.
Your argument became worthless when you included the Patterson brothers. Corey is quite possibly the most useless player in the whole league.
By Paul
August 27, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
I was one of those +/-3400 in the stands in the ’80s. I sat through those games and still loved the Braves; and showed up to support. But, there is a different breed of people running the show these days. I don’t know whether Wren is doing this on his own or he has help. It doesn’t make any difference, the outcome is the same. The money we just paid for tickets has been devalued. We ought to ask for a refund. Bring some of the Little Leaguers in to play. The Little League World Series had batter ball games than some of the Braves lately. At lease the losses in the ’80s were entertaining and the kids were trying, the way these people have been playing, I ain’t going to spend my money, and I don’t watch on TV either.
By Keeping It Real
August 27, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
TomahawkFlop,
You were pretty quick to take me down in regards to the Patterson brothers. I guess you picked up what I was implying. Are they Mexicans or Carribean Latinos? Oh, they are African Americans. There lies the problem with the Braves. Look at the Angels,Phillies,Diamondbacks, White Sox,Rays, Cubs and Brewers. Why did you not comment on the the real point of my post? Have a good day.
By dorothy davis
August 27, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
I felt all alone last night watching the Braves pull off a come from behind win against the Marlins. And from the looks of the empty stands, I really was pretty much alone. The Braves glory days are over for good , unless Wren invests in some quality starting pithing next year. and if he thinks not paying the big bucks for them is going to put money in the owners pockets…keep looking at the empty stands and tell me how that is going to work for him. I can gaurantee you the consession stands did not have any lines last night!
By hop
August 27, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
THE BRAVES are at a critical juncture and i do hope wren can somehow pickup the pieces and make it work, for an organization that still lives in the past.
there is no question the trades the braves made recently have not worked out.
our farm sytem has been guted with bad trades and there is little that is left.
i wish the present owners would sale the team to mr. blank who has a genuine interest in the team.
if not, welcome back to the old braves!
By denny
August 27, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
I like your style fisher, and i feel your pain. I continued to watch the scoreboard hoping for a streak of wins, something to get us back in the picture. But it hasn’t happened, and it won’t this year. Somewhere inside I keep holding onto the dream that they will comeback soon. For now this is a pipe dream. But… I will continue to watch my Bravos in hopes that they will return from the dead. Thanks for your honesty though, it balances my empty hopes.
By denny
August 27, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Sorry Bisher, I called you Fisher before.
By TomahawkFlop
August 27, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Keepingit Real,
If the point of your original post is that the Braves don’t employ enough African American ball players to be successful, then I accept your argument even though I believe it has absolutely nothing to do with the success of the franchise. Either way, I don’t care what race you are, if you post Corey Patterson-like stats, you don’t deserve to play in a big league uniform. Next time search deeper for a better example, or just leave it at Brandon Phillips b/c you aren’t doing African-American ball players justice by deciphering the exclusion of Corey freaking Patterson to be a racial injustice.
By Lucas Land
August 27, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
sir - you hit the nail on the head. The season was over before it began. Now this organization is in such a spiral downwards until it may take serveral years to overcome.
By Charlie Howell
August 27, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
The Braves have given up on the season so I give up on them. The traded Tex and who will be the next good player to go? I’ve attended two Braves games this year but I won’t be back. The post-game traffic is a nightmare anyway due to the road and bridge construction in the area. Both times, as I attempted to get on I-75 North, I was sent on a near endless detour through downtown Atlanta with a lot of other folks. They had already gotten my money, so what do they care if I get home late. by Notasuckeranymore
By J
August 27, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Ok, to all these fair-weather fans: We get it already. The management rolled the dice on a veteran pitching staff and injuries totally destroyed the season. But guess what, it wasn’t such a dumb move. Instead of making knee jerk reactions last year and signing an incredibly weak free agent class to long-term contracts that would tie our hands for years, the management have set us up for tons of flexibility. Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, Teixeira, and Kotsay, the biggest chunk of our payroll with the exception of Chipper, are off the books. We’ve got McCann locked up so our best young player is safe. That leaves us with a lot of money to pursue a free agent or two in a much stronger free agent class. Jurrjens has proven himself as a starter for the long haul, which is a start, but at least we’ve got flexibility. It was a bad year, but it was a good gamble (remember, Peter Gammons from ESPN predicted that everything would work out great and the Braves would win the World Series) with little long term risk. So we have to rebuild … so what? Every team has to do this again from time to time, even if we haven’t had to completely rebuild the team since 1991. It happens.
By bobby
August 27, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
I don’t agree with much of what Furman says, but Chris J has got to be the most pathetic poster I have ever seen on here. His mother must have abandoned him and I can see why.
By TomahawkFlop
August 27, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
J, thank you for putting an objective view on this season. People want to blame Wren, Schuerholz, Cox…anyone they can find, but the reality is that the organization went for high risk high reward with Smoltz, Hampton, and Glavine and it didn’t work out. Anyone that saw the Braves’ rotation coming out of spring training should have known that if the rotation didn’t stay completely healthy that the team would fall back and changes would have to be made to move on to next year. The Braves HAD to trade Tex or else get little to nothing back for him once he walked after the season, and honestly, he was no great shakes in Atl anyway. The Braves still have a solid nucleus of young talent and with a successful off season they can be right back in the mix next year. Take a deep breath Braves’ fans, you could be any number of franchises who haven’t smelled success in the last twenty years, just be a little patient.
By wascar
August 27, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
We need a young talented team for the future, but at the same time I donīt see much in this year free agent list, besides of c.c. and sheets, so I think that the better option is: wait a little more before open the wallet, and see what could happend with the rookies the next 2 seasons. Of course we have to cut with smoltz, glavine, hampton, james and franchy as well.
By Philosopher Fred
August 27, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
“If everybody would say what they mean, then we’d all know what not to do.”
By DJ Burnam
August 27, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this
How horrible are the Atlanta Braves fans that they have to rip the club when they are having a bad year. Yet when they are winning every year we cant even sell out a playoff game. Atlanta does not deserve the Braves. I still pay to watch the bad teams.
By Keeping It Real
August 27, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
I don’t believe it. The Braves traded Kotsay to Boston for a 20 year old outfielder. Maybe this is the beginning of a new day for the Braves.
By Debbi
August 27, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
If they did bring back Chief Nocahoma, the Braves would just trade him….
By Bradley C
August 27, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
Wow its easy to blame this person or say release this person. I do agree we got nothing in the trade this year but what do you expect, Texas was smart they saw our young talent and said hey they are willing to pay and the Angels didnt give us aa total bust they guy can play. These guys are humans not piece of meat. Yeah I think some othe pitcher need to go and some of manangement suck but I would kill to be in that park playing the game for little to nothing. Lets not forget that even Richmond as we lost our team we didnt support them either….
By Bradley C
August 27, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
Wow its easy to blame this person or say release this person. I do agree we got nothing in the trade this year but what do you expect, Texas was smart they saw our young talent and said hey they are willing to pay and the Angels didnt give us aa total bust they guy can play. These guys are humans not piece of meat. Yeah I think some othe pitcher need to go and some of manangement suck but I would kill to be in that park playing the game for little to nothing. Lets not forget that even Richmond as we lost our team we didnt support them either….
By Bradley C
August 27, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Wow its easy to blame this person or say release this person. I do agree we got nothing in the trade this year but what do you expect, Texas was smart they saw our young talent and said hey they are willing to pay and the Angels didnt give us a total bust they guy can play. These guys are humans not piece of meat. Yeah I think some othe pitcher need to go and some of manangement suck but I would kill to be in that park playing the game for little to nothing. Lets not forget that even Richmond as we lost our team we didnt support them either….
By Robert
August 27, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
Mr Bisher, it was over the Braves when Bobby Cox showed up at spring training
By t. rigel
August 27, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
it’s been being over for the braves since 1996.
since that year, it’s just been a long, slow avalanche of management incompetence which has finally buried the team near the bottom of the NL east.
the braves were built to look good on teevee for 160 games. they were never built to win a world series. that they did is a blessing for all of us.
the long-time schuerholtz habit of trading players, especially talented young players, every other month has been excused by the ajc sports dept by saying it is necessary for financial reasons.
actually,
the continuous parade of trades was not necessary, just expedient.
but what those many trades did was to demoralize young players on the team
and, worse,
demoralize the fans.
think what the braves could be today if they had not traded away young talent.
when the braves finally clean house of schuerholz and all his stand-ins, the braves may actually have a chance of becoming a team that wins world series,
rather than a team that wins pennants and then loses in the playoffs just in time for football season to start.
trade schuerholtz, with his stand-ins to your league rival for future considerations,
and the braves chances of becoming a first-rate team will immediately improve.
By richbrave
August 28, 2008 6:26 AM | Link to this
DESSEN?? Sounds like 1975 to me. Any OLD port in a storm.
By rob
August 28, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this
I got my tickets to the weekend series with the Mets in September. Its going to be nice to have 8,000 knowledgeable Braves fans instead of the 30,000 Bandwagon fans, and some 35,000 Mets fans!…SHEA STADIUM of the South, here we come!!! LET’s GO METS!!!!
By Vince
August 28, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this
Speaking of white flags should that not be Atlanta’s symbol. Since the 1860’s lots of white flags going up give or take a few years. If Valdosta is Title Town then Atlanta is, well you know.
By Phil
August 28, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
Mr. Bisher, With all due respect, Soriano is not an “ace” out of the bullpen. This guy kills us when he comes in.
It’s been over since 3 years ago(or was it 4??) when in the last playoff game we were involved in, Moron Cox brought in Chris Reitsma in a close game and promptly gave up 5 runs in the 7th inning and blew the game completely out of reach.
Moron Cox FINALLY comes out after 5 runs and takes him out. The game is over, the series is over, and it’s been over ever since. And it will continue to be over until that Moron gets the you know what out of here.
By clm
August 28, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Ah, Chris Jackson. Now I see, you don’t have a clue about anything. You are back with low-class wishes for Mr. Bisher to die. This shows your absolute lack of class and decency.
In addition you think it is the paper’s and Mr. Bisher’s job to support the Braves? Now you just proving yourself to be an idiot. I guess the Russian newspaper’s job is to support the communist party. Oh, yeah, forget it you’re right.
By skeezix
August 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
It is bad, real bad; and, unless we have a change in ownership, things won’t get better.
By olereb
September 2, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
I dont think the Tex trade was bad, we had a chance to get the best first baseman in baseball. We just did not know he would be so greedy.
By olereb
September 2, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
I dont think the Tex trade was bad, we had a chance to get the best first baseman in baseball. We just did not know he would be so greedy.
By @#%!
September 2, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
Boy, you said it about Wainwright. Rent J.D. Drew for one year, and regret it for the rest of the decade. Such is the story of the Atlanta Braves.
By Real
September 3, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
The real problem with the Braves is that they are too white. I realize this sounds like a racist statement, and I do not mean it that way, but it is what it is. Bobby Cox’s time has come and gone, he has had grace on his side for years with his bone head pitching/pinch hit decisions. No wonder they only have one world series win out of all those years of domination.
By Real
September 3, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this
The real problem with the Braves is that they are too white. I realize this sounds like a racist statement, and I do not mean it that way, but it is what it is. Bobby Cox’s time has come and gone, he has had grace on his side for years with his bone head pitching/pinch hit decisions. No wonder they only have one world series win out of all those years of domination.
By gary
September 3, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
One might blame the pitching injuries for the Braves problems, but how much of a surprise is it when you’ve got two starters over 40 years old; one has a history of injuries and the other has become a 4-5 inning pitcher? And you’re hoping someone comes back after being on the DL for nearly two years. And of course Cox has got to change relief pitchers at least every inning (if not with every batter), and they’re surprised the bullpen is tired? We’re seeing the results of a mediocre team and a mediocre manager. Hardly a surprise.
By mark
September 13, 2008 7:35 AM | Link to this
Braves are too white that is Funny..lol are the Hawks too black , the Falcons…you people amuse me, race is not the issue here..LOL!